Episode 442 - The Figgs
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:What the fucksikins?
Marc:What the fucking avians?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fuckaholics?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuckleberry fins?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's enough.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Here's the deal.
Marc:I got the figs, the figs, the figs, the rock band, the figs.
Marc:Never heard of them.
Marc:I understand.
Marc:Should you have heard of them?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Is that a unique situation?
Marc:Hey, I know this band.
Marc:You ever heard of them?
Marc:Nope.
Marc:How is that even fucking possible?
Marc:I think they're one of the best bands ever.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I just never heard of them.
Marc:happens man well look I have loved the figs for a long time first time I've had a band in here I've had people in here playing guitars it got a little it was a little unruly there were three of the figs here and that's enough for the full figs they were all in here and
Marc:And, you know, I'm talking to a group of guys that have known each other and have played together.
Marc:Well, at least two of them for the most part and the other one in and out.
Marc:But I mean, for a long time, man, I mean, for like since the early 90s.
Marc:I mean, I think I first saw them at a college in upstate New York in what must have been 93 or something.
Marc:They've been together that long, and they are a band that many of you have never heard of, and they've been together that long.
Marc:That is an amazing story.
Marc:I mean, so many great bands just fall apart, and you're like, why the fuck did that happen?
Marc:What do you mean, Soundgarden?
Marc:Why would you do that right then?
Marc:You were on the precipice of being more than epic.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Couldn't cut it.
Marc:Well, the figs could cut it.
Marc:And I saw them when they were here.
Marc:I think they came specifically to do my show because I've been talking about them.
Marc:And I was thrilled.
Marc:And then they played a gig at the, I think it was called the Redwood Bar, the Redwood something, that they threw together at the last minute.
Marc:And it was just me and about 30 people.
Marc:And they were fucking great.
Marc:You know what it's like to see a band that's been playing that long just sort of play a fucking intimate bar set of just balls to the wall power pop?
Marc:Fucking amazing.
Marc:And then you I leave and I'm like, why aren't why doesn't everybody know these guys?
Marc:I am always a little late to the game.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:A dollar short day late day late a dollar short.
Marc:I'm there without pants and the party's over.
Marc:I don't know what the saying is.
Marc:But here's the deal.
Marc:My buddy back in New York, this was the early 90s.
Marc:I'm living in New York, and my best friend at the time was a guy named Jonathan Daniel.
Marc:Now, John Daniel, he's a guy used to play in a hair metal band called Candy with Gilby Clark from Guns N' Roses.
Marc:And then he sort of grew up.
Marc:He moved to New York, and he had another band.
Marc:I can't remember what they were called.
Marc:But he was working...
Marc:Uh, the time I think in the BMG building for the manager of the cure, but he was also doing his own thing, you know, finding bands and doing that number.
Marc:And I can't remember him and I became friends when I was doing the Luna lounge shows.
Marc:He was a, he was sort of a buddy of my old managers who was a fucking music head.
Marc:And John was, you know, a music guy.
Marc:I mean, you know, it was his business and he's great guy, smart guy, funny guy, mild mannered fellow, smart as fuck though.
Marc:And he was in a band, but he knew a lot about music and,
Marc:And, you know, you know me.
Marc:I mean, I'm talking about my fucking blues bass cock and my fucking three chord bullshit.
Marc:And, you know, my bands are bands that rock.
Marc:And he was like, you know, he's a pop guy.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:What does power pop mean?
Marc:What's the difference between the three chords I like and the music you like?
Marc:And he said a B minor that that made sense to me at the time.
Marc:Still makes sense to me now.
Marc:But he turned me on like right away to bash and pop the Tommy Stinson stuff.
Marc:We talked about the replacements who I liked, but, you know, I had not categorized them in my brain quite yet.
Marc:And, you know, he sort of, you know, hit me to like, you know, well, Chief Trick and Big Star and Thin Lizzy and, you know, stuff like that, you know, he knew about.
Marc:It was his thing, you know, and that was before.
Marc:I mean, it was he always sort of framed it as a relatively unpopular music, a hard to sell music, but but really pretty music.
Marc:It's how rock was beautiful.
Marc:And I could get the Roots and the Beatles.
Marc:I'm no dummy, but whatever.
Marc:He just turned me on to a lot of stuff that I didn't know about.
Marc:And one day he says, you would like this.
Marc:I think this is going to be the bridge.
Marc:I don't think he said that, but I saw it that way.
Marc:And in 1994, he had a lot of CDs coming through his place.
Marc:he hands me lo-fi at society high that's a figs album okay that's uh it was it was their first big record if if if you could call it that all right lo-fi at society high on cd and i played that thing to fucking death i was like why isn't this i don't get it why isn't this band huge
Marc:And I played it over and over again.
Marc:And I still play it to this day.
Marc:It's The Figs.
Marc:Look, I know that it's hard for bands, and I know that a lot of bands don't make it.
Marc:And I know it's a crazy dream, not unlike comedy, to sort of be in a rock band.
Marc:But these guys have known each other since they were kids.
Marc:And somehow or another, through solo projects, through thick and thin, through marriage, through kids, through everything else, they remain together.
Marc:They remain together, and they sound great, and they're still making original music.
Marc:And they're out there in vans.
Marc:They're out there in bars.
Marc:They're out there.
Marc:I talk to them about people they open for, about momentum, and about everything else.
Marc:And somehow or another, they all have very definitive personalities.
Marc:But they're still together, and they're still making great music.
Marc:And I think that's a fucking beautiful thing.
Marc:I know it might be hard for them, but they're still finding their way, and they're doing the work.
Marc:But it was, you know, there's a heartbreak to it, but there's also a profound beauty to that type of commitment and to that type of slugging it out and continuing to move on and making great music.
Marc:I mean, Jesus, man, they've made like fucking, I mean, how many records?
Marc:It's like 20 records together.
Marc:And then there's the records that Donnelly makes and Gent makes by themselves.
Marc:I mean, it's a lot of stuff.
Marc:And the solo work is great, too.
Marc:But the weird thing was I never had three people in here.
Marc:So it's a little unorthodox, you know, for a WTF.
Marc:And they still sound great.
Marc:And their relationship, I'm sure it's gone up and down.
Marc:It's been strained.
Marc:It's been difficult.
Marc:But the bottom line is that these guys are like, you know, approaching middle age.
Marc:You know, they all have lives.
Marc:And, you know, and some even have jobs and and they're still doing it and they still making great music.
Marc:And just to be at the Redwood to see these guys play the day after they did my show.
Marc:was just spectacular to me because it's real, it's raw, it's human, it's guys doing the work of artists, and it was great to hear it.
Marc:And it was great to hear some of the songs from that album that had such a profound impact on me when I was younger and when I was turned on to this music.
Marc:Nothing can replace that.
Marc:That moment where you hear music for the first time that just fucking kicks you in the soul, man, and rocks.
Marc:And it was a thrill to have them in my garage.
Marc:All right, let's talk to the fellas.
Marc:Let's talk to Mike, Pete, and Pete from The Figs.
Marc:The Figs.
Marc:Mike Gent.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Peter Donnelly.
Marc:Hey, hey.
Marc:Pete Hayes.
Marc:The one and only.
Marc:So this is, well, okay, but were you the original guy?
Marc:I certainly was not.
Marc:He's the new guy.
Guest:I'm the new guy.
Marc:Why so many drummers?
Marc:How does that happen?
Marc:You guys, Pete and Mike, are the original two, and then you've gone through how many drummers?
Marc:I think two, technically.
Marc:A couple other, well, maybe three.
Guest:Villains.
Marc:Yeah, a couple fill-ins.
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:Here's the thing.
Marc:You guys are a great band, and the way I came into you, it was interesting because my buddy John Daniel, he's got a management company now, but he used to be in a couple bands.
Marc:He was in that hair band Candy with Gilby Clark back in the 80s, and then he had some other band for a while.
Marc:When I met him, he was working for the dude...
Marc:who managed The Cure.
Marc:He was in the Sony building, whatever.
Marc:And I was hung up with the, I could not differentiate between what was considered pop, like power pop, and I was just a blues-based douchebag.
Marc:You know, obviously I like Elvis Costello, I like The Squeeze, but he had to introduce me to this idea that, well, there's an E minor in there somewhere.
Marc:So there's a fourth chord,
Marc:And then he gave me your probably second or third album.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:High five.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Lo-Fi at Society High.
Marc:Lo-Fi at Society High.
Marc:And I was like, what the fuck?
Marc:Who the fuck are these guys?
Marc:How come they're not the biggest band in the world?
Marc:I turned everyone onto that album.
Marc:I gave it to Dave Cross.
Marc:I gave it to like, because Dave Cross is like a pop guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I knew pop guys and I sort of considered them the enemy.
Marc:You know, like sort of like, you know, like real rock and roll.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's weak.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you guys, that fucking album was amazing.
Marc:What year was that?
Marc:That was 94.
Marc:94.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And now it's 2014.
Marc:13.
Marc:Right before we met.
Marc:In a story.
Marc:In a story.
Marc:Walking towards the train.
Marc:You were walking away from the train.
Marc:I'm like, you're a fig.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just saw you were kind of a weird, we have some weird fans.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's what he treated me like he didn't understand because I was so overwhelmed.
Marc:Aren't you guys used to having that much passion come at you?
Marc:It doesn't happen all the time.
Guest:But then I saw you again at the food store, at the grocery store, and it was the same thing.
Guest:You're like, hey, you live around here?
Guest:And again, I'm thinking, who the hell is this guy?
Guest:And then my buddy Pete, Caldez, who lives in New York, who you met from Gene.
Marc:Denise's boyfriend or whatever they're doing.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:house guest permanent house guest a few years later he said oh i saw a mare and he said hey what's up with gent man he's an asshole trying to talk to him and he doesn't even want to talk to me i said i don't even know who it was now you know well yeah of course you know who that was but i thought like wait this guy's how big is that band if he's walking through a story looking like someone hurt his dog
Marc:You were not the happiest guy in the world.
Marc:Rough times.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it rough times?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:What year was that?
Marc:So that was... I lived in Astoria from 94 until about 2000.
Marc:Well, let's go back.
Marc:Because honestly, the first time I actually saw you guys, it was weird because I put it together.
Marc:And I don't know if I'm even right.
Marc:Because I put it together after I got your record.
Marc:Is it possible you played at some weird college gig in like Sarasota or somewhere upstate New York?
Marc:Because I went...
Marc:We're all from Saratoga.
Marc:Saratoga.
Guest:Skidmore College, maybe.
Marc:Do you remember doing, did you do many college gigs?
Marc:It might have been a frat house.
Marc:Sarah Lawrence.
Marc:I thought it was, all I know is I was doing a gig and I ended up at a party.
Marc:We were doing a gig at a college and you guys were playing because I remember you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I remember like, these guys mean business.
Marc:What are they doing here?
Marc:And so you did a lot of those gigs.
Marc:That could have been in 2000.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I think that was last summer, man.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, right.
Guest:Your time's off a little bit.
Marc:so how long have you guys known each other when how long have you been playing together a few years no seriously 26 pete and i met when he was 14 and i was 15 so that was 90 or uh sorry 87 yeah and how does that how do you how do you start like bonding around what music did you bond around then
Guest:well we when we first met it was the first rehearsal that we had as a man it's true you just put a post up what do you mean no no we we were friends with um guy who was our original drummer guy lions who became our guitar player for a while right lo-fi period but uh uh yeah and guy and i were gonna play start a band with his older brother who didn't show up right and that guy said oh i know the p yeah yeah that
Guest:What?
Guest:No.
Guest:Me and Guy were playing at that concert where we all took lessons and we saw you playing with the other band.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we were like, that's the guy we want because we wanted to start a trio like the Minutemen.
Guest:And he was like, Mike, I was already in a band with him.
Marc:You were 14 already playing in rock bands.
Marc:Yeah, we all were, yeah.
Marc:And you were a Minuteman guy?
Marc:Who was a Minuteman guy?
Guest:Well, we all were.
Guest:We were into SST, all those bands.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Homestead.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And Pete Hayes is from Boston area, so he knew all the Boston punk bands.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm 44.
Marc:I graduated in 87.
Marc:Who was around?
Marc:bad outlets dogmatics dogmatics del fuego's well that's a little bit earlier like yeah what the fuck happened up there though man there's nothing there they've erased our history have you been to kenmore square it's like they've erased our history kenmore it's gone it's gone and no more nuggets no more nuggets records no nuggets is still there that's the only thing that's still there yeah storyville's gone the rat is gone bun raddies is
Marc:I don't know if I'm on the radio.
Marc:The Rat was long gone.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:The Rat was our first Boston show with you guys.
Marc:So you had to deal with like, Oh yeah.
Marc:He paid me 15 bucks.
Guest:15 bucks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you guys can sign up over here.
Marc:That guy, what was his name?
Marc:Amy Mann remembered him.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:He had to be a mob guy, right?
Marc:I always thought so.
Marc:Everybody knows that voice.
Marc:Well, see, walk me through something, because I can't understand.
Marc:I'm not a music business guy, and I love music.
Marc:And you guys had, not only did you have hooks, you had energy, you had fucking great songs, you had drive.
Marc:You put the record on, and you're locked in immediately.
Marc:So what happened?
Guest:what didn't happen i think at that time we were kind of uh it was we were kind of a strange band because at the time we had three lead singers and i think the labels that we were on at the time were kind of they didn't know what to do with that because if you think about it early 90s mid 90s you're coming
Guest:You know, a lot of bands, just one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We were back to one, you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Lead singer.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But also pop was not, like, that's what my friend John said.
Marc:It's like, it's the best music, but nobody buys it.
Marc:But then, like, now, it's all, you know, once Green Day broke, which isn't really pop, but at least there was that other chord and that movement.
Guest:But again, one lead singer.
Guest:And one sound.
Guest:I mean, this band, the Figs, always had a lot of sounds in our sound.
Guest:It was hard to say what it is.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Still, when people ask me, what do you guys sound like?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm like, well, we sing, we play guitar, we play drums.
Guest:I say rock and roll.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:People don't even say that anymore, though.
Marc:But that gives such an impression.
Guest:That's the company line.
Marc:yeah you know when you say rock and roll they're like listen grandpa well i'm not going to say punk power popster that's exactly what i mean but like what okay so when you started how long did it take for you guys to you know start writing songs about three hours i don't know so you were 14 and you're writing songs a little bit man we were playing a lot of covers like what
Guest:fire yeah fire really the jimi hendrix experience no but soul stuff too yeah like what uh tracks of my tears bring it on home really yeah and then mike could sing that stuff that's why we were just like dumbfounded yeah somebody who could actually sing bring it on home we were like yeah but then we were doing we were playing a lot of velvet tons of velvet so you're doing tracks of my tears and like some what goes on yeah did you do what goes on for like a half hour yeah
Guest:That's the best song in the world.
Guest:And then we were, you know, attempting to cover Husker Du at times and Ramones and when Pete got into the band.
Guest:What were we playing when you were getting into the band?
Guest:I recall doing Act Naturally.
Guest:Oh, with you singing it?
Guest:Yeah, with me singing it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Remember doing that?
Marc:The Ringo Starr song?
Guest:Yeah, Buck Owens.
Guest:Is it originally a Buck Owens song?
Marc:Wow, I'm sorry.
Marc:That's okay.
Marc:Were you doing Buck's version or were you doing Ringo's?
Guest:I was doing Ringo's.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So now, how does it go?
Marc:So you guys quit high school or what?
Marc:No.
Marc:You finished?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Did you go to college?
Guest:I did a couple years.
Guest:Kinda did, and he graduated.
Guest:Yeah, I was a junior in college, and I was trying to- Where were you going?
Guest:Skidmore, upstate.
Marc:That's a good school.
Guest:Trying to get in with these guys' managers, because I was trying to get my band an opening slot.
Marc:Who was your band?
Guest:Cement Bunny.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:Did you do some records?
Guest:No, there was nothing ever recorded.
Marc:Just a name.
Marc:Just a name.
Marc:Just a name in a memory.
Marc:We're all good friends.
Marc:What did those guys go on to do?
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:Still playing in bands, you know.
Guest:I'm not in touch with them as much as I'd like to.
Marc:What's the matter?
Guest:They're like my best friends.
Guest:I see them all the time.
Marc:But he has no idea what bands are playing.
Marc:You gotta come see my band.
Guest:They got a couple kids now.
Marc:You got kids, right?
Guest:We all do.
Marc:You all have kids?
Marc:I'm a fucking comedian and I never was able to muster up the selflessness possible to have children.
Marc:You've all got children?
Marc:And wives?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:First marriages?
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well-adjusted motherfuckers.
Guest:And you know what else?
Guest:All our parents have stayed together.
Marc:This is why.
Marc:This might be the missing piece.
Marc:Someone's got to fuck their life up.
Marc:And we're all lapsed Catholics.
Marc:I think I'm doing that right now.
Marc:You're all lapsed Catholics?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you didn't know each other when you were not lapsed Catholic.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you start in high school.
Marc:I just want to, I want to go through the arc of what, because I feel like you guys are very persistent and you keep plugging away and obviously you're making a living in music, correct?
Guest:Somewhat.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So I want to, I want to talk about the persistence and the heartaches of what a band goes through because you guys have stayed together and I'm sure there's been difficulties.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Nah.
Marc:So when was the first break?
Marc:How does that happen?
Guest:Well, you know, when we started playing around Saratoga, we were playing, we got a gig at this bar every Tuesday night, and we were still underage, and we were playing, you know, three sets a night.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We were doing that for a while, and then our big goal was to get a gig in Albany.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was like our big, you know, like, oh, we gotta play in Albany.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:QE2, and...
Guest:and we did that and then you know the next thing was like oh we got to play in you know in new york so we got a gig down in new york right who were you playing with who are the other bands god knows we know the name of the club it was uh downtown beirut yeah oh i remember that point yeah yeah yeah um i do remember the the first gig in boston at the at the rat was on a ska night
Guest:The hi-hats, I think, played that, yeah.
Guest:Downstairs in the rat.
Guest:Downstairs.
Marc:They just wedged you in to a ska night?
Guest:We could do ska.
Marc:Did you attempt it?
Marc:You did it?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You just popped up some ska?
Guest:No, probably not.
Guest:I think my bass amp broke first song.
Yeah.
Guest:Did you guys develop a following up in upstate?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, we did.
Guest:Well, I mean right out of the As soon as we started playing we were We were playing these shows at this place called the Bijou and we were selling this place out and there weren't a lot of bands in our high school at the time there were a few but I
Guest:um we kind of got it together enough to to play these shows at this in the back of this club right and we were selling it out and uh and that you know looking back and we have some videos of that and it's like you know screaming girls and stuff yeah yeah i was like we were age relevant at the time but i was but i'm thinking i'm looking at him like man it never got any better than this like first year in you know 87 right it did it's kind of just been down since then but
Marc:Well, it felt like it was a young man's game at one time, but it seems to me now that there's a lot of oldsters kind of like, you know, being thoughtful and putting out thoughtful records, right?
Marc:Spinning vinyl.
Marc:But did you ever have that moment where you start to bump up the guys you compare yourself to?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when was the first record deal?
Marc:Where'd that happen?
Guest:Well, we had a manager, and we were trying to get record deals, independent stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And finally, we got signed to BMG.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Imago, and put out a record, and it was great.
Marc:Which record was that?
Guest:It was Lo-Fi Society High.
Marc:That's why I got it, because it came through BMG, which is where John was.
Guest:Yeah, and I mean, that was all great.
Guest:A small label with a lot of money.
Guest:but we were already seven years in that time yeah but that was our first record deal but you were ready fuck yeah i mean but that record like every song just goes boom boom boom to the next i think the first two are actually connected kind of right yeah i mean we they are yeah yeah we a lot of those a lot of that record we have been playing for like at least four years but that's just what you need to do right we put out two records before that on cassette only yeah and that's what we pilfered for that record do you have uh do you have those can i get a copy on the cassette only record yeah i'll send them
Guest:Do you still have them?
Guest:Do you have a box of them?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do, and they're hand printed, man.
Guest:Do you really?
Guest:They're numbered.
Guest:Do you really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I bet you do, right?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Because I'm sick of them in my house.
Guest:I'm glad to see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you have a cassette deck?
Marc:I'll find one.
Yeah.
Marc:I remember my first self-produced CD when you get that deal where you're like, yeah, I guess a thousand's good.
Marc:Yeah, give me a thousand.
Marc:Yeah, it's a lot.
Marc:Yeah, it's a lot.
Guest:And then you sell 12 and then you have a box of these horrible, like you don't even get the right.
Guest:You wouldn't believe Mike when we were folding the covers and printing them.
Guest:After about 10, he's like, I can't believe we have to do this.
Guest:I'm like, dude, it's going to take us an hour.
Guest:It's like one hour of work.
Guest:And you did it.
Guest:We did it and it was done in an hour.
Guest:And all this is show business.
Marc:And all those songs ended up on the first record.
Marc:A bunch of them.
Guest:Some of them, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The first two CD... The second cassette we put out actually about 10 years ago on CD with a bunch of extra crap on it and stuff.
Marc:So then, okay, so now you're on your way and your manager's going, this is great.
Marc:The record sounds great.
Marc:It's going to go.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And what happened?
Marc:Tours, videos, chicks.
Marc:Who'd you go out with?
Guest:We got picked up by the Cranberries when they were first starting to break.
Guest:It was our first tour proper.
Guest:It was incredible.
Marc:They were huge, right?
Guest:They were huge.
Guest:They were just breaking.
Guest:Playing to a thousand people.
Guest:We'd go to the dressing room.
Guest:There's deli platters and beers.
Guest:It was really great, but it kind of all changed after that.
Marc:It's so funny where your expectations are.
Marc:It's like, dude, there's beer.
Marc:That moment where you're like, we can just have these?
Guest:yeah holy shit yeah but it was great though tons of people and suddenly we were like you know stars every night yeah and the touring kind of simmered down after that uh we started playing to 20 people a night and we got off that tour so we got back to reality we got stuck on some summer tours in the south yeah and we realized you don't tour mississippi in july
Marc:you know what i mean yeah so were you just going out in a van and was just yeah we had a converted truck and we were living in that you're sleeping in it sleeping in it oh yeah you know for years did you was that at what point did it stop uh did it lose its charm after the third engine kicked that shit off a cliff
Guest:2004 good riddance yeah that's before that we were so happy to go to rentals but real fine i mean we were touring after that cranberries tour we did we did some good tours i mean we toured with the weezer right as their first record was coming out it was sold out shows every now and then we toured with um this band super grass that was fantastic big for a really good band to tour with oh yeah um but then we we did some like co-head the co-headlining tours were really the
Guest:the the crap tours because nobody really knew you know nobody knew we were touring with that band that became really big who uh help me ckb tour it was like a cologne oh jimmy yeah they were opening for us jimmy eat world
Guest:oh i remember that would they do one record or something i mean they probably did a lot but had a they had a huge hit and you know mark speaking of power pop we did one of the first tours we did was about four or so weeks with the knack really yeah it was pretty amazing was it yeah yeah that was right after the cranberries tour when you were saying we went back yeah but there was still there was there was we weren't playing to a thousand people with the neck no it was considerably different
Guest:We went from playing the Odeon to playing, you know, Peabody's Down Under.
Marc:So like the Knack was, it was already a revival act at that time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They were trying to capitalize on reality bites.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And was it sad?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It was beautiful for us.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And they were great.
Guest:Because they're great.
Guest:yeah i mean we love the knack you know do you oh yeah i mean we miss the original drummer and all but billy bill ward was the replacement guy and they were great and seeing them burton of air ripped that solo every night it was like the first time yeah it's incredible i it's weird because when the knack came out when i was in high school there was a real issue as to whether they were the real deal yeah you were like lame
Marc:No, no, you couldn't avoid My Sharona.
Marc:And what was the other one, the more sexier one?
Marc:Good Girls Don't.
Marc:Yeah, Good Girls Don't.
Marc:You couldn't avoid it.
Marc:They were great fucking songs, but there was this sort of contingent of people that were like, they're not real new.
Marc:I think it was even that they're not real new wave.
Marc:Like, what does that even mean?
Guest:Well, that's what happens when you're pop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, people hate it.
Guest:Yeah.
Why?
Guest:But the Beatles didn't deal with that.
Guest:I mean, well, people hate the Beatles, but I can't, you know.
Marc:But isn't that where it all comes from?
Marc:Like, you know, the Beatles are the biggest band in the world, and that's where pop, that modern pop, really comes from.
Marc:And for some reason or another, when anyone else uses those chords, they're like, oh, they're pussies.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:How is that fucking possible?
Guest:Well, how often do you hear that Paul McCartney, oh, you know, I like Lennon more.
Guest:Paul's a pussy.
Guest:It's like, shut up.
Guest:Just listen to I'm Down.
Guest:Shut up.
Marc:I don't really have that problem.
Marc:All right, so you tour your balls off for a long time.
Guest:Just waiting.
Guest:And then what happened?
Guest:Well, Mongo went under because BMG pulled the backing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we were signed to Capitol.
Guest:And we did a record for Capitol and did tons of more touring, more touring, more touring.
Guest:And then we...
Guest:hooked up with graham parker um i saw you with graham parker oh cool around the end of bottom line yeah oh nice yeah um and uh you know the capital was kind of scratching their heads so you tied your trailer to a guy that was like just the the 20 year down the road version of you right and capital records though they had signed him yeah they were like who's he didn't he die
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, that's Graham Parsons.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's a different Graham.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we did the first tour with Graham and then... Opening for him or backing him.
Marc:Both.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We would come out, do a set, and then we'd go back.
Marc:Was that a big thing for you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Huge.
Marc:For me it was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember in college hanging out with Mike in my dorm room talking about Graham.
Guest:I think I had the up escalator.
Guest:We were checking it out, talking.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was kind of funny.
Guest:And then she...
Guest:Seven years later, there we are.
Marc:Backing Graham Parker.
Marc:So you were a big Graham Parker fan?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, going way back.
Marc:I got the box set, and I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, and there's a few songs that I really fucking love.
Marc:Dick.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:But I understand what he does, but he was one of those guys, and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, and I feel bad for saying this, it seems like he was locked into a sound and a tone, and I think it seems like Elvis Costello lifted it for his first record and then moved beyond it somehow, and somehow culturally left Graham Parker in the dust.
Guest:yeah i mean that yeah i think that um i read something uh recently like an old cream interview with gram where they were talking about this writer who uh for the enemy at the time and he's like graham parker can't project past the third row you know and graham's like well you know you know what am i supposed to say to that but in a way you know i think he realized that and that elvis you know he had this
Guest:way bigger image to start off with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He named himself Elvis.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You know, and I think that the public kind of... Sure.
Marc:And also I think sort of the rambling Jack Elliott, Bob Dylan issue where rambling Jack's like, he stole my act.
Marc:It's like, you know, but then he kind of...
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Elvis's genius is just very obvious.
Guest:Graham's more coarse.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think it's like a lot more literal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he's a real word guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You get into that.
Guest:I mean, just from working with him for so long, I've discovered his genius and I just feel like he just keeps putting it out.
Marc:Was there a moment where you realized like, ah, I get this.
Marc:It was beyond the music.
Guest:I do.
Guest:And I mean, I always loved Graham and playing with him more and more.
Guest:You know, you always gain an affinity or lose an affinity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In this case, I gained it.
Guest:And his later records are just keep delivering song after song where you're like, when you really listen, it's a great song.
Guest:There's nothing wasted in it.
Guest:You know, right.
Guest:There's no loss.
Guest:I'm not lost trying to follow him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No.
Guest:And that changed the way I listen to songs.
Guest:I was more like that's a whole picture of music and sound together.
Guest:And the lyrics are part of that.
Guest:I mean, Graham is that, too.
Guest:But his lyrics are just so strong.
Marc:And they're honest, right?
Marc:There's an authenticity to it.
Marc:So when you guys were writing, I don't know anything about songwriting.
Marc:And it seemed like on that first record that you did, what is it, Low Times?
Marc:How come I can't fucking say it?
Guest:Because it's a tongue twister.
Guest:Yeah, it's a tough one.
Guest:Low-fi at Society High.
Marc:Low-fi at Society High.
Marc:I mean, you were kids.
Marc:yeah and as you started to go on did you guys find that you were getting deeper with the songs because it seems like some of the solo stuff is pretty fucking personal and then like you know i i imagine once the bitterness side it sort of locked in a little bit it must have gotten a little angrier what are you saying we grew up at all yeah i'm saying a little bit yeah i mean i don't think we ever uh you know we're we're just talking about this today um
Guest:a lot of people are past the major label stuff.
Guest:Oh, that must've sucked me.
Guest:And you guys really got, you know, screwed over.
Guest:And it's like, we never, we never really thought of it that way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, we, we, we kind of got out of that whole thing.
Guest:What the major label.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Pretty easily.
Guest:And, and, and the other thing is like, we didn't, we never had to kind of truly come down off of this.
Guest:Like, Oh, we were on a bus and now we're back in the van.
Guest:We just never, we always kind of stayed pretty humble as in the van, in the van.
Guest:And, and, you know, uh,
Guest:Just as a unit, we never really... I think that's part of the reason why we have been able to stay together for so long is that we never truly... Possibly if we had been successful back then with a hit or something, we would have probably completely crumbled and fallen apart.
Guest:Why do you think that?
Guest:look at the history of that happening yeah with so many bands right i mean you get you know when you have people blowing smoke up your ass constantly right you get used to it right and then when the bottom falls out and then and you put out a record that doesn't have any hits and then the label goes away and you're you're only left to blame each other yeah right and you're like holy shit i gotta go back in a van no way i want to do that and then then you don't see the band anymore you know
Guest:we gotta get back in a van yeah now we do rental cars it's much nicer it's nicer how many figs out full like full uh original uh content figs albums are there there's about i don't know 12 or 13. jesus christ and then uh you know we've done record with graham a couple live records with graham and um outtakes anthology lots of stuff live stuff
Marc:the live records are good thanks all the records are good all the records i've heard are good now that i know there are 12. yeah i have to go on like i used to like i was supposed to interview alice cooper and it didn't happen but i'd already bought all his records and you know as a 50 year old almost you know 49 year old man you can't all of a sudden just love alice cooper right
Marc:Like, I'm not going to take all that shit in and get it.
Marc:I did it with Tool, too.
Marc:Like, you know, Maynard was coming in.
Marc:I'm like, I was never a Tool guy.
Marc:I guess I better load up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I listened to all of Tool in two days.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:I'm not going to have that experience of like...
Marc:You know, I'm going to have to try to understand it.
Marc:But I've listened to a lot of your records.
Marc:Well, you were a fan.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And a fan that annoyed you at the grocery store and at the subway.
Guest:No, you see, with our fans, like, at some point, our fan base became very male-heavy, right?
Guest:Well, that seems... Once we left high school.
Guest:yeah once you you put on a few years and you well i mean our music happened tended to be high energy and a lot of times that's like attracts men the who the who is like a guy band yeah you know most most women you say do you like the who what yeah yeah yeah
Guest:But I mean, I've always said we have those songs too.
Guest:Like you said, we're a pop band.
Guest:When it comes down to it, we just play with a lot of energy.
Guest:I mean, as we got older, I think we discovered a lot more of those other facets of our music.
Guest:Like I think you were getting at before, like the songwriting changes.
Guest:A lot of that had to do with playing with Graham too.
Guest:Yeah, it did.
Guest:It had to do with growing up and being around, you know, getting some other perspectives.
Guest:Did he ever say anything to you?
Guest:Slow down.
Guest:He said, oh, you guys suck.
Guest:You play too fast.
Guest:You know what he said to us after that show at the bottom line?
Guest:What?
Guest:He said, you make the replacement.
Guest:What did he say?
Guest:Oh, yeah, he said, you guys make the replacement sound like the Tentations.
Oh, my God.
Guest:because we were so bad did i see a bad show yeah i think well i don't know if you were at the first or second show that night by the second one everyone was pretty lit really joe jackson was there pete thomas was standing behind pete he sat in i was standing behind all right he was playing my drums yeah i might have drooled on him sorry about we played everything wrong that night
Guest:what's it like to see those guys did joe jack yeah that was wild that was a wild night because i go out i we go out to play yeah and joe jackson's sitting you know dead center watching us p thomas is watching us from the wings right we go out to play the first note and my amp is not working i was like classic silent silence and graham's going what the fuck's
Guest:And then from then on, it's like... You just drank your way through it?
Marc:Did you get to talk to Joe Jackson?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, he didn't come.
Guest:He left.
Guest:But we did hang out with Pete Thomas.
Guest:I think those two got into some trouble later that night.
Guest:No, we had just a really good night.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:He's solid, huh?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:when you were younger i mean what compelled you to do the kind of music you were doing i mean i get the ramones and stuff but replacements yeah right of course yeah and you played with tommy yeah a bunch yeah yeah so we we uh he was a fan back and at that at that point right around right when you were getting into the end he had a girlfriend out here who was into us and turned him on to lo-fi right um we started hanging with him and then he called he said i need a band let's do it let's do this tour and then
Marc:So you're kind of like available as the backup end.
Guest:Yeah, for the people that we really like.
Guest:We'll back you, Mark.
Guest:I'm ready.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But that's going to be a lot simpler.
Marc:He was ripping earlier, man.
Marc:You guys missed it.
Marc:It's very limited ripping.
Marc:It's just one, four, five, do some Jimmy Reed.
Marc:I could maybe do, what would you do?
Marc:Bring It On Home?
Marc:Is that what you said you did?
Marc:No, you did, what was it?
Marc:Tracking My Tears and what was the other?
Marc:Blue Discovery?
Marc:Bring It On Home, yeah.
Guest:You did Bring It On Home?
Marc:Yeah, we did Red House.
Marc:We could do Red House with you.
Marc:yeah sure who plays like hendrix you know you i try yeah sure now what about okay so let's talk about the the first wave of like you know fuck you when did that happen as a band when did you break apart and like we're done oh which year that's what i'm saying when did that first happen what was the reason was it after the first two albums or three albums because i think when i ran into you
Marc:you were like working on something else because you i think i gathered did you give me cds of the the something gentlemen gentlemen yeah i listened to that yeah that was with you no the uh p caldas right means uh so when you guys go do solo stuff and you're still not like a huge band together is that sort of like what happens how do you guys handle that well that was just personal p you have you have your lives you know your band isn't it's like people imagine it's like
Guest:the you know scooby-doo van and you're together all the time it was it was but i mean when you yeah it was for a couple years but then you move you know you you move we all move to different cities start doing different things i live near philly okay where do you live boston you i live in chelsea in manhattan
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:I mean, we haven't lived in the same town since Saratoga.
Guest:You know, since 1999.
Marc:You guys should all move back up to Saratoga, man.
Guest:Live the dream, man.
Marc:You know, get the, what is it?
Marc:The, you know, the Big Pink album.
Marc:Get the house.
Guest:Get Dylan to buy it for you.
Guest:We did all that.
Guest:We lived in a house together.
Guest:We did.
Guest:Like the monkeys.
Guest:Where?
Guest:In Saratoga.
Guest:And then we went out in this like year-long tour and we all got back and we all moved to different states.
Guest:We were like, you know what?
Guest:I think we can move apart now.
Guest:How'd you find time to meet women and have kids and everything?
Guest:There's a lot of time, man.
Guest:When you're on the road, you work like one, two hours a day on the road.
Guest:The rest of the time, you're like, you know.
Guest:Were all your girls fans?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, actually.
Guest:No, my wife loved the band before I even knew her, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so she was a fan.
Marc:Oh, she was.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She was at that Sarah Lawrence show.
Guest:That was so weird.
Guest:That was before I even knew her.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's sweet.
Marc:Yeah, it was kind of cool.
Marc:And where did you end up meeting her?
Guest:A roommate.
Guest:My roommate introduced me to her.
Guest:She came to visit him, and I ended up hanging out with her the whole weekend.
Marc:And when did she tell you she saw you when she was in college?
Yeah.
Guest:um we we just had just at that weekend we we just started talking about it i was like you were at that show she was there was like three people at that show and she was wonderful yeah how'd you meet yours i met my wife in texas at uh south by southwest uh-huh i bugged her for about a week she won nothing to do with me
Guest:And she's a rock person?
Guest:Yeah, she was actually booking a club at the time in Boston.
Guest:She's from Boston?
Guest:Yeah, she's from Boston.
Marc:And that's why you went there?
Guest:That's why I moved from Astoria to Boston.
Guest:What part of Boston are you living in?
Guest:Malden.
Guest:Malden?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:you guys just you have wives you just you kind of somehow and philly outside of philly why because your wife comes from there no she's from brooklyn she's from the islands but she's from brooklyn uh-huh the islands long island huh caribbean is she really yes she grew up in uh brownsville
Guest:where's that east new york uh-huh you know way out there in brooklyn okay all right and uh i met her at our other member's wedding yeah the guy who's i know it's ridiculous yeah she was the maid of honor i was the best man in a way my first marriage was like that really yeah the same thing i was like you're gonna take my friend i'm taking your friend yeah
Marc:now were you living with your first wife in queens and maybe it depends what year that was that you know yeah when i ran into you i definitely was yeah and then uh if i would have run into you in about you know 2000 in uh in 99 no okay that's when that marriage fell apart in queens then in 99 yeah yeah so we were probably i was probably you know i probably saw you in two different versions of me excited and you know miserable so how many kids you got uh four what yeah
Guest:I thought you shook the Catholic thing.
Guest:You have four kids?
Guest:I'm working on being a Hasid.
Guest:Yeah, and that's the thing now?
Guest:Yeah, you know, she's from Brooklyn.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is she Jewish?
Guest:No.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Four kids?
Guest:No, you know, I'm just fucking horny, you know?
Guest:I mean, it just happens.
Guest:No, but you don't have to have them.
Marc:You don't have to have the kids.
Guest:Well, I took care of it finally.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I put an end to that.
Guest:You tied it up?
Guest:I did.
Guest:You were the one?
Guest:No more.
Guest:No more.
Guest:How old are they?
Guest:She said, I'd have another.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:You look 12.
Guest:I know, somehow.
Guest:They keep me young.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:40.
Marc:He's lying.
Marc:You're 40?
Marc:You're just 40?
Marc:Just.
Marc:Fine, fine, fine.
Marc:Four kids.
Guest:How old are they?
Guest:Oh, my oldest is killing me.
Guest:She's 15.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:She's amazing.
Guest:I mean, she's playing and everything.
Guest:And then I got seven, five, and almost three.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:How many you got?
Marc:One.
Marc:That's enough?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:How old is he?
Guest:Three and a half.
Guest:You?
Guest:I got one daughter.
Guest:Her name's Ruby, and she'll tell you that she's three and eleven twelfths.
Guest:She will.
Guest:She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Marc:So what are you guys, like, what are you doing now?
Marc:What happens now?
Marc:I'm a stay-at-home dad.
Marc:But where's the, like, I got your new record, and I got your new record.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, have you heard about the Juttador?
Guest:Yeah, I got on a car commercial.
Guest:The car commercial, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's nice.
Marc:That reinvented Iggy Pop, oddly.
Marc:Car commercial?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:It wasn't the car commercial.
Marc:It was the Nike commercial.
Marc:No, it was Search and Destroy, I think.
Marc:Remember in the movie theaters, they'd run those commercials?
Marc:And John Daniel actually told me how that happened.
Marc:And it had nothing to do with Iggy Pop.
Marc:Some dude who looks for music for commercials locked into the title and said, what's this?
Marc:And then used it, having no idea who fucking Iggy Pop was.
Marc:How did yours get into a commercial?
Guest:Our friend, Neil.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played in a Hank Williams cover band with my friend Neil for a while.
Guest:And then he left New York and he went to Berkeley for commercial music production.
Guest:Moves to LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eight years later, out of the blue, calls me, hey, Pete, we need a kind of upbeat pop number for this Lexus ad.
Guest:You got something?
Guest:I'm like, do I got something?
Guest:My song.
Guest:Yeah, well, all I had handy on email.
Guest:I didn't know this about this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:All I had handy was a couple of my songs.
Guest:I was like, well, here's this.
Guest:And then I went home and just sent him a bunch of stuff.
Guest:And your stuff.
Guest:I believe you.
Marc:So it was his song that got it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it was you guys playing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so Neil's like, I think this is going to work.
Guest:I think it's really good.
Guest:Don't get your hopes up.
Guest:But I think the next thing you know, it's like, oh, they took it.
Guest:And it's going to air now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, fortunately, you guys are out of the woods enough to where no one's going to judge you.
Marc:Because they killed the Del Flegos, man.
Guest:I know, right?
Guest:They had something to be.
Guest:I mean, I always say that.
Guest:We have so many records, so much history.
Guest:Nothing could take it away.
Marc:But there's that.
Marc:But also, for some reason, Del Flegos were presenting themselves as like, we're this fucking gritty.
Guest:Rock and roll is folk music.
Guest:It's for folks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I remember when that Miller commercial came out, the Boston music scene was like, fuck them.
Marc:They sold out.
Marc:They did a beer commercial.
Marc:Times are different.
Marc:No, no.
Guest:I am a walking beer commercial.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I'm not judging.
Marc:I think it's people... Who was I talking to?
Marc:Who's the dude from...
Marc:Fountains of Wayne.
Marc:There's some dudes that, yeah, he just like, he fucking will score anything.
Marc:And he looks at it as like, well, I'm a composer and that's that.
Guest:It's kind of like the new, it's like radio now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To have the song played on TV over and over and over again.
Guest:I mean, you know, and it's completely bringing in new ears.
Guest:But do people identify it?
Guest:People searching it out, going, what is this?
Marc:So you sold records from it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All of a sudden, that record that's 10 years old already, Palais, is now selling.
Guest:Physical copies of it, people are ordering.
Guest:It's like,
Marc:Well, the good thing about the way you guys, I think, produce your records is that they're not dated sound-wise.
Marc:They're just not, really.
Marc:Yeah, I think some of them are.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:There's no weird synths or overproduction.
Marc:There's no disco numbers.
Marc:That all sounds good.
Marc:What are you talking about?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We do all of that.
Guest:Yeah, we do.
Guest:How dare you criticize us?
Guest:I'm sorry, man.
Guest:I think the funny thing about the commercial is that the drummer landed the commercial.
Guest:It's hilarious.
Guest:I walked around my house grumpy about it for about two weeks.
Guest:My wife was finally like, you're making money.
Guest:You didn't have to do anything.
Guest:All you have to do is sit here.
Guest:Why did they call me?
Guest:Well, you got the two main songwriters who have written hundreds and hundreds of songs.
Guest:And he's written like 12 songs.
Guest:He gave them what he had on hand.
Guest:I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Guest:He threw you all a bone.
Guest:I got over it.
Guest:I got over it.
Guest:It was like double-edged sword.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:And then I was like, oh, what the fuck?
Guest:That's how I felt for the past 22 years, man.
Guest:Finally, he gets his.
Guest:No, he is like Ringo because, you know, we'll be making a record and it's like, we're down, it's like, you got a song, Pete?
Guest:You want a song on this record?
Guest:Nope, I don't have one.
Guest:Okay, next record.
Guest:You got a song for this one?
Guest:Oh, okay, I'll whip one up here.
Marc:Because how does that work?
Marc:It's a publishing thing, right?
Marc:Like, if you wrote the song, it's a bigger payday.
Guest:Yeah, well, with our publishing, whoever wrote it gets the writer's share, and then the actual publishing side of it, the three of us split.
Marc:Okay, so let's talk about fistfights, anything?
Guest:Yes, there was a fistfight at CBGB's.
Guest:It was awesome.
Marc:It was a fistfight.
Marc:It was good.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:It's fucking a week's crap.
Guest:They fought like Laverne and Shirley.
Marc:So it happens.
Guest:Barely.
Marc:It was nothing.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:There's no kinks.
Guest:No?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, you want to talk about fights, you need to... I mean, this man is pretty much boring on that front.
Guest:We've, you know...
Marc:yelled and over like over what stupid stupid shit uh girls yeah girls oh yeah yeah that's before the wives came in yeah yeah of course yeah so you would fucking blow a gig over a chick no try getting you know posturing too much posturing
Guest:Oh, so like if you're... Depending who was in the front row, you know, or up front.
Guest:Both trying to impress the same chick?
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Downright stealing.
Guest:We're just talking nonsense here.
Guest:No?
Guest:It's garbage?
Guest:This isn't real?
Guest:We don't even like girls.
Guest:This is interesting, though, at least.
Guest:What?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:This topic is... Yeah, history is like, nah, whatever.
Marc:But yeah, talk about some... Well, I mean, don't you feel like it's an amazing testament to your... I don't know if it's integrity, but persistence and belief in your sound that you're still fucking can sit in the same room together.
Marc:I mean, they're like... And you guys are a great band, but most great bands can't even fucking hang... They can't stay together when they're successful, let alone still kind of pushing.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:That upsets me.
Guest:You hear about these bands, you know, that are just coming together and all of a sudden they're huge and then they just dissolve.
Marc:Like Soundgarden?
Marc:It's like, what are you guys, stupid?
Guest:Well, those guys were around for a while.
Marc:No, but still, it's like, you know, you're just like, or Guns N' Roses.
Marc:It's like, okay, yeah, okay, you made a billion dollars, but you still had three or four good records in you and you can't fucking keep it together, you babies.
Guest:I know.
Marc:But that's like grow up.
Guest:That goes back to what I was saying, though.
Guest:I think that a lot of, when you have so much success, it's like,
Guest:how can you but isn't it just business then can't you just think of it well we got a job to do i mean i don't think most musicians can't separate they can't compartmentalize like oh this is my passion and my heart from let's just do this job and do it well you must but i guess the emotions run so deep that you end up really fucking hating people yeah right yeah sure i mean you said that awful quick
Guest:no i mean you're a healer mark i'm trying i'm trying no i'm trying to bring everybody back together no i you know it's like with anything you go through periods of you know great great periods and then you know other times you just you gotta do other stuff and you know i think with us you know we we uh
Guest:there's so much there's a lot of history between all of us yeah and and for a long time i felt that living in three separate cities was really good for us yeah come together do our work it's very focused and then that and like now recently i've been feeling like oh this it's like it sucks i don't i hate it what's the writing process how do you guys write together do you kind of show up with half a song and say what what do you what are you gonna do with this and sometimes you like saying here i got this riff and you shoot it over to him
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like half and half.
Guest:Those are some of my favorite songs.
Guest:He'll have an idea for a song, and he'll sit there for four years, and he'll have an idea for a chorus or a verse, and he'll be like, I've got to finish that song, and I'll finish it, and then we're playing it, and usually they're really good songs.
Guest:Most of the time, I'll have a pretty complete song.
Guest:I'll bring it in.
Guest:Maybe he'll say, man, do this here or something.
Guest:And same with him.
Guest:The band's a range, but for the most part, we write and bring it in.
Guest:But yeah, we're not committing enough time to do that stuff.
Marc:exactly what i'm trying to say you're so consumed with your life can we can we maybe uh get a little focus back on the music fellas yeah you know bring us out to cali for a month yeah yeah we'll record it right in here this is a good spot you got your guitars you got a nice mic or two i got a couple good mics there's a guy down the street right here in silver like we'll get you set up there's a couple of them i think yeah yeah this town's full of these guys
Marc:Yeah, I mean, see, because what I'm thinking is it's like, you know, the National, the Hold Steady, you know, all these guys are, you know, our age are making a difference now.
Guest:Grownups are buying music, fellas.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My feeling, though, is that, you know, we're 26 years in and I'm like, oh, man, we can just breathe and not do anything stuff.
Guest:It's like kind of nice.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So you're happy you're doing the solo stuff?
Guest:No.
Guest:not necessarily but i you know it's a supportive room we can handle it i think there's something to be said for when you've been around that long it's not a big deal when you don't play yeah it's like it's like your family you know they're there we we haven't played a show in six months and i haven't received one email saying like what are you guys doing
Guest:So it's like, yeah, it's kind of nice.
Guest:I think I sent you a couple of those.
Guest:What are you guys doing?
Guest:We have Facebook messaging.
Guest:Or somebody wrote on Facebook, oh, man, when are you guys going to play in Chicago again?
Guest:God, I said, we played three shows there last year.
Guest:Right, and they don't know.
Marc:That happens to me all the time.
Marc:I just left your city.
Marc:I tweeted it.
Marc:I Facebooked it.
Marc:I can't come to your house.
Marc:and go, hey, dude, I'm going to be here tonight.
Marc:You hired an army of door knockers.
Marc:Yeah, it's what you need.
Guest:Marin's in town.
Marc:What the fuck do you got to do, though?
Marc:You put it on Twitter, you put it on Facebook, you send out your email blast, and then a week after the gig, people are like, when are you coming?
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Guest:Am I not doing this right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's that lie, you know, oh, you bring one person, they're going to come back with two.
Guest:No, you gain three fans and lose four.
Guest:Every time you come back, it's like, they're distracted.
Guest:How do you get them back?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:No.
Marc:But I guess my question is, what do you guys want out of it now?
Marc:What would make you happy?
Marc:Are you happy?
Marc:Are you happy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You seem happy.
Marc:Drummers are a little happier.
Marc:They're balanced.
Marc:I'm all right.
Guest:I like to bang on things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:These front guys, you know, these, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've never been happier.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You?
Yeah.
Marc:um it depends with the band or with my life well i mean how like you guys are still professional musicians okay you back you back ram you do what you know you put out stuff you constantly put out stuff i assume you're making you're making a living for the most part but i mean you know how do you feel about music now i mean what do you want to do next
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, that's the thing.
Guest:That's kind of like the crossroads that the band's at, because I feel like we've maintained a certain level of, okay, we can go out, we can play places where people come out to see us, we can make records and know that we can make them cheap enough so that we can actually get into the black with the sales, and we're not...
Guest:we've never i mean you know it's been since the 1980s probably or the early 90s where we've actually reached into our own pockets and paid for something for the band so to me that's proof complete success right you know we're we've been able to to do that for a long time without having a huge we don't have a huge fan base i mean uh you know i mean people
Guest:how did you get on this show?
Guest:I said, well, he was a fan.
Guest:You just have to be open.
Guest:I mean, when you say, what are we doing?
Guest:It's like, you just have to be open to what's going to happen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, we just happened to be in LA.
Guest:We just happened to get this song in a commercial.
Guest:I mean, it's just, things will happen and you have to be ready to take, take advantage of them when they do.
Guest:Well, you guys are ready.
Guest:I mean, Jesus Christ.
Guest:We know how to play shows.
Guest:I mean, we're coming out to LA, so we're going to, we'll play shows while we're here and take advantage of it.
Guest:And you guys haven't played a show in six months?
Guest:No.
Guest:I haven't even seen these guys in six months.
Guest:Really?
Guest:No.
Guest:Back to the questions.
Guest:What do we do?
Guest:Where do we go?
Guest:We've made two double records.
Marc:You've made a lot of records, and they're great records, and your solo records are great records.
Marc:I have this relationship with you guys, so I listened to your new one, I listened to your last solo record, and it's like, oh, that's so distinctly him, and that's distinctly him, and I can see how they fit together, and they could do these songs, too, with the big songs when they tour in the big tour, and everyone's going to come see them.
Guest:You do do that.
Guest:We play songs off our solo records with the band, yeah.
Guest:It's all just music.
Marc:I guess what I'm asking you is, is there still this idea, do you still have the hope that the figs will break big?
Guest:No.
Marc:I don't.
Guest:I like the idea of sitting at home getting money.
Guest:That's what I like.
Guest:I like this idea of songs being placed.
Guest:I don't have to leave.
Guest:I got a family and a wife and I love them.
Guest:I want to stay home for a little while.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:He's got like four tunes, too.
Guest:So, so far, one of them has done so much, so he's got three more.
Guest:I know.
Marc:No, he's got a ton.
Marc:Have you ever thought about doing that, though?
Marc:Have you sat down and had that conversation after the commercial and said, guys, we've got to get into this business, soundtracking?
Marc:Well, everybody says.
Guest:Everybody.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:That's the whole thing now.
Guest:It's the only way to make money.
Guest:I mean, you don't make money selling records.
Guest:You don't make money playing shows.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:It's all our intellectual property.
Guest:You hope it's going to someday make you money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you got to have it out there and you got to work it to people, all that.
Guest:Everybody's doing that.
Guest:It's kind of like winning the lottery, really.
Guest:So you got a guy doing that, though?
Guest:but it's friends yeah really jay's here yeah but um but like our friend neil you know you have friends that they come up and they get a new job and all of a sudden they're in an office and they're a replacement person and they're like i like this band why don't you listen to this band and they happen to go like wow a goofy french song is going to help sell luxury cars let's do this and it's funny that that came about because of a i guess you'd call it a like side project right you know
Guest:So it goes to show that anything musically that any member of the band does with anyone will possibly be beneficial for the band.
Guest:Right.
Marc:anything good point that's how about yeah how about the like so when i started this podcast i was crushed you know i was like i was washed up and sort of fucking out of the game what about the heartbreak of it have you processed that did you experience it no not really no because i'm getting back to the very beginning it's like you know we were we were doing it for seven years we got the imago deal you know we got some nicer equipment yeah that
Guest:that was very satisfying and we've always kind of stayed at this kind of you know right you're trying to stay pretty humble right as a band right because the whole point was let's get in a room and make music yeah write songs and and that kind of just never really left right but now that we all have our you know families and we all lived in we all live in other places it's it's you know
Guest:It's hard to get that creative thing going because, you know, it's like I want to write a song.
Guest:It'd be nice to be like, hey, let's get together, you know, tomorrow.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And get some songs together.
Guest:It's just like this whole process where you got to schedule things four months in advance.
Marc:Yeah, but you have no, there's no feeling of like we didn't.
Marc:It's not spontaneous.
Guest:No.
Guest:You didn't climb as high as you wanted.
Guest:sure but you know people love the band and you're surprised how far you got yeah you know that's the thing that's the best when someone just don't even know how deep your music has reached and that's what i'm saying it's gonna keep going yeah i think you guys are gonna keep reaping the rewards forever i mean i think you're rock stars that's why i'm like the pigs are coming i'm fucking nervous yeah
Guest:You know, I always felt like, oh man, it would have been great to get to the level where we were playing like small theaters.
Guest:I always felt like we could handle that.
Guest:And thankfully with Graham, we've been able to play in small theaters and really, you know, we are able to
Guest:you know kind of connect with the audience that big anything bigger or you know we we played you know the warp tour we're playing these amphitheaters and it's just like nobody wanted to hear us but you know there was maybe four kids in the front just like psyched to see us but like are we the type of band that we're able to project out into an amphitheater i don't know i don't know if we were built that way song wise or just you know
Guest:you like the fucking title yeah we i mean we always thrived on if there's people right here standing in our face that's when we play the best right people need to get the energy that because there's all this interplay and then the songs are changing in the moment there's so much happening in the moment yeah yeah and i think that's where we've always translated best and maybe it's because it's where we grew up and it's what we've existed in yeah we had to develop a style of playing in rooms where you can see the faces of the people
Guest:Because you're at the same level, there's no stage.
Guest:Right, you're on the floor in someone's house, yeah.
Guest:But, you know, people love that and we've learned to love that too, that interaction.
Marc:When you've been on stage in those big rooms and you know that no one's paying attention, what does that feel like?
Marc:Do you just look at each other?
Guest:You look into those lights, man.
Marc:That's it?
Guest:Yeah, the bright, super bright lights.
Guest:I can't imagine it.
Guest:I just stop playing, go home.
Marc:no but like as a comic I'm up there alone so I know when I'm not connecting and there's no where I can't look at my guitar player yeah right oh my god we can't imagine yeah yeah but I just like it's a horrible feeling and I know you must at least feel that but you still have each other
Guest:So do you bring a guitar?
Guest:I mean, we just start soloing.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:See, when no one's connecting, fuck it, let's just start soloing.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:We jam.
Guest:We jam, but maybe you could try that.
Guest:Just have a guitar.
Guest:I know it's paying attention.
Marc:Just do it.
Marc:It's been done.
Marc:Yeah, Kennison once said, he played guitar too, and he said, there's no way I can, what am I going to do with that up there?
Marc:But then he ended up playing in a rock band, so that didn't end well.
Guest:i can't imagine but i i think that you know back to the the an earlier question you're saying like where do you know where do we go from here i was like yeah there for me on my end there has been disappointment in the way where it's like man how long do we have to do this before we get a uh record reviewed in rolling stone or right or just little tiny things like that it's like how you know we you know playing with gram and stuff is like
Guest:there's this little thing going on t you know being on tv it's like we early on we we were on a few tv shows um did you do conan no we were jay and i were just talking about this today we when we were on capital we we got offered conan and somebody management or somebody said wait wait for them to do the second single and then we'll go on pony what and then we didn't do it i never heard that yeah yeah we didn't do that we did john stewart show when it was on when it was being after it was on mtv he went to
Guest:fox yeah yeah we did that he had us on that and then we did this show on comedy central called viva variety sure tom went in with with that was with graham yeah yeah and as far as national tv that's about all she wrote like for me music is pure because all i play is in here yeah and like and every so often like someone will ask me to play with them like i don't really play with people but i'm good enough to play with people and i get a i get a real rush out of it and
Marc:But I think the second I put a group of guys together, the second you go like, wait, can we start that over?
Marc:You're not doing... Can you just follow me?
Marc:Then it's fucking gone for me, I would think.
Guest:Yeah, it's different when you take it out of the workshop and try to build the house.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I thought you played blues.
Totally.
Guest:Yeah, it's all I do.
Guest:I don't need other people.
Guest:But why are you telling someone else how to play the blues as a pattern, right?
Marc:No, I understand that, but you're missing the metaphor.
Marc:It's pure joy for me to sit in my garage and just play like a fucking hero, as opposed to be insecure and choking on stage.
Marc:The last time I played with people, I did all right.
Marc:it makes you better it does make sure and i think i'm all right but then again it's like i'm only playing i only i don't listen to the blues very often i just play them i'm not sure anyone wants to listen to the blues we'll let you know um after you play with us i can't i'm not gonna jam on some blues well i think there's i think we should play some songs and also i think that one thing that's come out of this is that you need to get cement bunny back together
Marc:yeah you know i've that's what i'm feeling check this out the uh guitarist um singer for cement bunny and guy lyons and i are talking about putting some kind of band together uh-huh are there people that would go like oh fucking cement bunny um no me well me and you now yeah no right i remember a few people being upset that we took him from cement yeah yeah
Marc:What's up with them?
Marc:Where are those guys now?
Marc:I just fucking quit listening to both of them.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Fuck them.
Marc:So you want to try and put some sort of musical situation together here?
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:You ever sing it?
Guest:Me.
Guest:Check.
Guest:Two, three, four.
Guest:Honey, got to bring your bag of tricks.
Guest:We get started around quarter to six at the Camden Loving.
Guest:Camden Loving.
Guest:No reason to bring those beads A free mind is all you'll need At the Camden Lovin' Camden Lovin' We got time to let it loose Take a little toke and a sip of juice At the Camden Lovin' Camden Lovin' At the Camden Lovin' Little Camden Lovin'
Guest:Janet came with time, and now she's with Joe.
Guest:Who's talking now?
Guest:Hell, I don't know.
Guest:Camden lovin'.
Guest:Camden lovin'.
Guest:Oh, little Camden lovin'.
Guest:Camden lovin'.
Guest:Ed led the heat to the back of the house in a flash.
Let the rest in the nap get the lid of the trash.
Guest:When she came home the next afternoon Mama didn't know what she was up to at the Camden Lovin' Camden Lovin' Camden Lovin' Little Camden Lovin' Always a Camden Lovin'
Wow.
Marc:That was good.
Marc:Shit.
Guest:Very French song.
Marc:This is the one everyone knows from the Lexus commercial?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:One, two.
Guest:Bonjour.
Guest:Je t'adore.
Guest:C'est aujourd'hui.
Guest:Et toujours.
Guest:Maman.
Guest:How about
Guest:S'il vous plaît, je voudrais une journée.
Guest:One, two, three, four.
Guest:5, 6, 7, 8.
Guest:Ecoutez et répétez.
Guest:Je te dors.
Guest:Ecoutez et répétez.
Guest:Je te dors.
Guest:I won't be ignored.
Guest:Go buy Alexis.
Marc:That's our show, folks.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:Come on, it was fun.
Marc:Come on, the figs, you guys.
Marc:Fucking figs, man.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Okay, look.
Marc:Go out and buy a figs record.
Marc:Just do it.
Marc:Just do it.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:This is WTFPod.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get your WTFPod needs met.
Marc:I'm going to restock for Christmas presents.
Marc:I'll try to keep you abreast of that.
Marc:But you've got to keep on top of the show.
Marc:I can't email you all personally when things come in.
Marc:Is that too much to ask?
Marc:I'm all jacked up, man.
Marc:I'm all jacked up.
Marc:I'm going to go listen to a Firehose record.
Marc:Boomer lives!