Episode 437 - Elijah Wood
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuck'll Barry Fins?
Marc:That's enough.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:And thank you all again for all the positive feedback on my special on Netflix.
Marc:Thinky pain.
Marc:If you haven't watched it, go watch it.
Marc:I'm proud of it.
Marc:I get more proud of it as the days go on.
Marc:Wasn't so sure about it at first, but now I'm proud of it.
Marc:Thanks for your support and help in reassuring me that I did a good thing.
Marc:God forbid that come from inside of me.
Marc:God forbid I can just tell myself that's a good thing.
Marc:You should be happy with yourself.
Marc:No, let's let's take a vote.
Marc:Was that a good thing, Mark?
Marc:Well, the nine people inside of me say it was OK, but 20 to 30 to 40 to 100 to 200 people outside of you say it's great.
Marc:Well, maybe I'll take their word for it.
Marc:Why should I trust myself?
Marc:I am proud of it, though.
Marc:It looks pretty good.
Marc:I hope you dig it.
Marc:The other thing I wanted to tell you, because I know some people are not necessarily new to the show, but I do tend to get more requests for guests that have been on the show than I'd like.
Marc:And sometimes I don't think it's always clear that if you go to WTF pod dot com, you know, you can just get get the app.
Marc:There's a free app for WTF.
Marc:Now, as you know, the most recent 50 episodes are free.
Marc:But then if you want the other 390, whatever it is, you can upgrade for a reasonable price, like seven, eight bucks for a year.
Marc:And you can stream all of them, 400 and some odd episodes.
Marc:And they're all there.
Marc:And you can go to WTF pod dot com slash guide and see who's been on the show.
Marc:A lot of people have been on the show.
Marc:You know who hasn't been on the show?
Marc:Elijah Wood.
Marc:You know who's on the show today?
Marc:Elijah Wood.
Marc:Yeah, that's what's going to happen today.
Marc:I'm going to talk to that kid.
Marc:And he's a smart kid.
Marc:Why am I calling him a kid?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:He's younger than me.
Marc:He is a kid.
Marc:We talked about the ice storm for a while because I was a little obsessed with that movie because I thought it represented my childhood.
Marc:I always knew my parents were up to something I could tell from the pictures.
Marc:You know, when you grow up in the 70s and you see pictures of your parents, you're like, oh, they were swingers.
Marc:There was something going on.
Marc:Look at that Nehru jacket.
Marc:Are you kidding me with that medallion?
Marc:What were they up to, my parents?
Marc:Are those hip hugger pants, Ma?
Marc:Come on.
Marc:you guys were up to something and that movie it just i i just i saw it as a a historical document of my childhood i don't know if it's true but i love that movie we also talk uh we did some hobbit talk we did some pie talk it's a good interview man and uh i'm i'm doing okay you know i'm pretty good i have a little problem with uh
Marc:having an ongoing struggle with ice cream.
Marc:I'm having an ongoing struggle with what to do with myself, say between the hours of about five in the afternoon and nine at night, doing a lot of comedy, a lot of fucking comedy back in the clubs.
Marc:Okay, so I'm alone.
Marc:We've established that.
Marc:It's getting a little easier.
Marc:Things are very clean.
Marc:I've established that.
Marc:Now, the problem is filling a lot of things.
Marc:What do we fill with?
Marc:Well, look, I'm just going to explore this for a minute, but ice cream is fucking ridiculous.
Marc:It's just fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Okay, I'm a grown-ass man.
Marc:I'm 50 years old.
Marc:There's a myth about ice cream.
Marc:The myth is...
Marc:That ice cream is fun.
Marc:Is it fun?
Marc:Is ice cream fun?
Marc:Or is it?
Marc:I think that ice cream falls under two camps.
Marc:There's the grown-up shame camp, and then it's for kids.
Marc:There's shame and for children.
Marc:That's what ice cream is for, for shame and for children.
Marc:Some people are like, dude, it's just ice cream.
Marc:Shut the fuck up.
Marc:I mean, relax.
Marc:Don't eat it if you don't like it.
Marc:Of course I like it.
Marc:Of course I do.
Marc:I have an addictive personality.
Marc:There's part of me right now that thinks I should be eating ice cream now.
Marc:I should be eating ice cream all the time.
Marc:I should be snorting Coke.
Marc:I should be smoking pot.
Marc:I should be having a cocktail.
Marc:There's no reason I shouldn't be masturbating right now.
Marc:There's a part of my brain that wants to do all those things right now.
Marc:I don't have a name for that guy, but he's nothing but trouble that guy.
Marc:So I'll get through a whole day, man.
Marc:I'll get through a whole day.
Marc:I'll go out and do a couple sets of comedy.
Marc:I'll come home about 1030 and I've made it.
Marc:I've made it through the tunnel.
Marc:Maybe I've eaten well.
Marc:Maybe I haven't, but I'm done.
Marc:I'm at home.
Marc:It's 1030 at night.
Marc:There's nowhere to walk around here.
Marc:I can't walk to a store.
Marc:I'm at home.
Marc:Why not go to bed?
Marc:I'll tell you why not, because I'll sit on my couch, maybe turn on the TV and then a little voice in my head will go, dude, go get some fucking ice cream.
Marc:And I'll say, hey, man, we're home.
Marc:There's no reason we can't go to sleep.
Marc:And that thing will say, shut the fuck up, pussy.
Marc:You want some ice cream?
Marc:Just go get a pint.
Marc:Just go get a pint of ice cream, man.
Marc:It'll feel good going in.
Marc:It'll be so happy.
Marc:It'll be happy time.
Marc:And I'll be like, no, I don't think we should.
Marc:And then I'll go, Vons is open for another half hour.
Marc:Just go.
Marc:And then I'll go, all right, fuck it.
Marc:I'm going.
Marc:I'm going.
Marc:So then there I go.
Marc:I'm going to get a pint.
Marc:But as you know, a pint, that's not two servings.
Marc:That's not three servings.
Marc:A pint is something you plow through.
Marc:However you do it, you're going to do it.
Marc:They're not made for anything other than one sitting.
Marc:And they know that.
Marc:Ben and Jerry knows that.
Marc:Those evil fucks, they understand.
Marc:So I'm going to get a pint.
Marc:That's all I'm doing.
Marc:And that thrill, once you make that decision, once you say to yourself, I'm going, man.
Marc:I'm going to go get a pint of ice cream.
Marc:I drive down to Vons with a singularity of purpose that is profound.
Marc:It feels invigorating to know exactly what you want right when you want it and be able to get it.
Marc:So I just drive down to Vons.
Marc:I storm in.
Marc:excited but a little angry because that's that's my basic state and then i stand before that freezer and look at all those options and there's just joy in your heart there's joy in your heart when you're standing in front of an ice cream freezer at a supermarket look at all the options oh man which ben and jerry's version of there's too much shit in this ice cream and funny writing am i gonna eat
Marc:So then I grab one.
Marc:This one looks good.
Marc:It's got too much shit in this ice cream.
Marc:Hey, happy letters.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So I grabbed that.
Marc:I'm like, good.
Marc:I'll grab this pint.
Marc:That's all I want is a pint.
Marc:And then there's that moment where you're like, I'm going to have to cut it.
Marc:I'm going to need some vanilla for cut.
Marc:I'm going to need to cut it.
Marc:I can't take the purity of this complicated flavor.
Marc:So now I'm walking out with two pints.
Marc:I got the pint of the complicated flavor and I got the vanilla.
Marc:So now I'm going on with two pints where a pretty large part of my being did not want to eat any fucking ice cream.
Marc:So then I go home and I set the two pints on the counter.
Marc:And like a grownup, I get a bowl, I get a spoon.
Marc:I scoop out some of the complicated flavor, hit it with a couple of tablespoons of the cut, you know, to ease, take the edge off.
Marc:And I sit on my couch and I eat a bowl of ice cream like a grownup.
Marc:I enjoy it.
Marc:Then I go back into my kitchen.
Marc:I put the bowl in the sink and I put the spoon in the sink.
Marc:I put the ice creams away and I go back and sit on the couch.
Marc:And I'm like, well, that was nice.
Marc:That was very pleasant.
Marc:You just enjoyed a bowl of ice cream.
Marc:And then a few minutes later, it's like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Are you kidding me?
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I'm going back in.
Marc:I go back into the kitchen.
Marc:No bowl this time, just a spoon.
Marc:And then I open up that freezer and I pull out the pint of the complicated flavor.
Marc:I shovel maybe three or four spoonfuls into my mouth.
Marc:I'm not angry yet.
Marc:We're not fighting.
Marc:Me and the ice cream are not fighting.
Marc:I take a hit of vanilla, you know, to chase it with because, you know, I want to take the edge off.
Marc:And then I go sit back down on the couch.
Marc:And then I wait about five minutes and I'm like, maybe I'll go to bed.
Marc:And then the other part of me is like, no, you're not going to go to bed, asshole.
Marc:You're going to sleep knowing that that ice cream is in the freezer.
Marc:You're just going to sleep knowing it's there, knowing you could be shoving that into your face.
Marc:Then I go back and now I'm a little angry because there's a battle going on.
Marc:I go back in there.
Marc:I go back into the freezer.
Marc:I got my spoon and I literally will probably say something like, fuck you.
Marc:Fuck you, seriously.
Marc:And I'll get the ice cream.
Marc:I'll just start shoveling into my mouth.
Marc:With with with a type of anger.
Marc:I don't even know what I'm angry at.
Marc:Clearly, I'm angry at me, but I'm angry at the ice cream.
Marc:But I brought it into the house.
Marc:I allowed it in.
Marc:And then I'm like, I leave I leave like two spoonfuls of it, two spoonfuls of it at the bottom of the of the pint.
Marc:And to me, that's a victory.
Marc:I'm like, I didn't finish it.
Marc:I didn't finish it.
Marc:Then I get undressed, then go into my room, I go to bed, got my boxers on, I'm laying in bed, maybe, you know, reflecting on the day, you know, trying to, you know, kind of turn down, you know, shut down, maybe get some sleep, and then it's
Marc:there's that voice just like you're not gonna leave those two spoonfuls in the freezer what are you ridiculous what are you gonna do with two spoonfuls and ice cream go finish it go finish it so i get up and i go to the freezer in my boxers and i get that spoon out of the sink and i shovel those last two spoonfuls into my mouth
Marc:chase it down with a hit of the vanilla cut, and I throw that pint away, the empty pint carton.
Marc:Did I win?
Marc:No, I didn't win.
Marc:I lost.
Marc:I lost the ice cream battle.
Marc:Then I go back into my bed, and I lay there, and I'm like, well, how do you feel about yourself?
Marc:How do you really wind down after that?
Marc:Well, you masturbate.
Marc:That's what you do.
Marc:After you eat ice cream, before the shame kicks in,
Marc:about plowing through a whole pint plus a half a pint of cut.
Marc:So that's a pint and a half of ice cream.
Marc:Why process that?
Marc:There's no way to process that.
Marc:You're just going to go to sleep feeling shitty.
Marc:So why not masturbate?
Marc:So at least you can chase that strange lactose sucrose buzz, that strange milk and sugar weighty high with the momentary euphoria of autoerotic orgasm.
Marc:Why not do that?
Marc:Amplify the shame.
Marc:And then fall asleep because you have no choice.
Marc:Like there's no thinking about sleep.
Marc:You'll just kind of...
Marc:The only thing I can say to put a positive spin on this is that maybe I'm being too hard on myself about ice cream, but I would like to just put out into the world that lately, no porn for me, not looking at porn.
Marc:I'm going old school.
Marc:I'm going analog.
Marc:No digital resources for masturbation.
Marc:I'm going right from me.
Marc:It's kind of like the vinyl thing.
Marc:Just looking for authenticity, looking for integrity.
Marc:Analog orgasms.
Marc:That's where that's at.
Marc:This is a little filthy for an opening, but I think it's an okay way to set up Elijah Wood.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:I didn't say kid that time, and we had a great conversation.
Marc:Let's go to that now.
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
Marc:Elijah Wood.
Guest:Hello, Mark Maron.
Marc:I don't usually do that.
Marc:There's no reasons for intros, because I'll set it up before the show.
Marc:All right, so we're talking vinyl now.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you're a collector, but you also, don't you put out records?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:I have a small label that I started a number of years ago, just purely out of interest to be a part of releasing music that I believe in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I had no partnerships.
Guest:I didn't have any infrastructure.
Guest:So I know I'm just doing it as an imprint on another label, just a means to an end to kind of get the thing going.
Marc:To elevate.
Marc:And when you say music you believe in, that's bands that you like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That you don't think has gotten their fair shake in the world.
Guest:That was the idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the idea.
Guest:So I was involved in putting out the Apples and Stereos last two records, which was great because I was a fan of their work.
Guest:And I work with this band called Eloise and the Savoir Faire.
Guest:Um, but I'm actually, it's, it's sort of the labels kind of in flux and I'm, I'm thinking about moving into more in the world of reissues and doing like reissue comps of, you know, music from the sixties and seventies is stuff that is not widely heard.
Guest:And that's the kind of stuff that I tend to buy.
Guest:Like I buy a lot of, um, of old vinyl, but the stuff that, that I'm buying that's new tends to be reissue compilations.
Guest:Do you play music?
Guest:Um, not really.
Guest:I mean, I took lessons, piano lessons when I was a kid, and I've had a guitar for years, and I just got a drum set, which I'm keen to take lessons on, but I've never, I feel very musical without actually knowing how to play anything, if that makes any sense.
Marc:But you're going to embark on the drums at age?
Marc:I do, really.
Marc:I'm 32.
Guest:A little late.
Guest:But I've been very percussive my whole life, so it feels very... What, you mean just sitting around and... Yeah.
Guest:So the progression of that, which I feel is in my body, towards putting it towards the functionality of a drum set.
Marc:So now it's just a dream, though.
Guest:You've got the drum set.
Guest:It's a dream.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I do play it.
Guest:You do?
Guest:I play it, yeah.
Guest:And I'm getting better at it the more I play, but I should take real lessons.
Guest:Self-taught?
Guest:You mean just listening and kind of grooving?
Marc:You put on a record and you go?
Marc:Yeah, that's actually a great way to learn how to play.
Marc:It's interesting because that's the way I play guitar too, but what you find is when you step into playing with other people, that they're...
Marc:there's a bit more responsibility right to the gig you know it's sort of like you had sort of an inflated uh idea of how well you could play and then you start playing with other people you kind of step in and you're just sort of like i'm just doing what i do and they're like and where the song changes there oh you know right right you can't play lead through the whole song you know you've got to you know hold up your end oh i thought you guys oh fuck you're right
Marc:yeah i uh and it was interesting i play with a guy who was who drums primarily like your tempo is dictated you know by the record so you're not gonna lose there's no losing totally whether it's guitar or anything else when there's no record and you're the guy yeah you're like oh boy yeah it's uh and you're not playing to a click right you can i guess you can play to a click can you do that live can you stick a click in your head you could yeah yeah you could in the headphones
Marc:You seem to know a lot about the recording thing.
Marc:So when you did Apples in the Stereo, were you in the booth and shit?
Guest:Not for their record so much.
Guest:I was involved a little bit in the final days of production, but I didn't really have any thoughts to weigh in.
Guest:The Eloise record, I was around for the whole time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:I mean, you know, being a fan of music to be around that process was exciting.
Marc:Well, you seem like it's hard for me to even wrap my brain around the fact that you're 32.
Marc:I mean, I'm 49, but like you seem to be someone I've known on in movies since I was a kid, it feels like.
Marc:But it's not true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's only 24 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:24 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Fuck.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Guest:I started when I was eight.
Guest:And you're not fucked up.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You might be.
Marc:I mean, you seem to have your shape.
Marc:You seem to be a very tightly wrapped fucked up, if you are.
Marc:I don't think I'm fucked up.
Marc:You're not about to explode?
Guest:No.
Marc:It's not all going to come raining down?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:How the fuck did you get so stable being in such an indulgent and egocentric business?
Marc:I know, right?
Guest:It's my mother.
Guest:I credit my mother with all of that because, you know, I was eight years old when I started and she was so concerned with raising me as a good human being first.
Guest:And I think she was... From one to eight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also in the process of being an actor, I think she knew the sort of dangers of the industry and...
Guest:you know as a child what the influence that you could get is that you are being told that you are better than other people and you know you get special treatment for being an actor and she hated all of that and she was afraid that if I were to accept that kind of treatment it would give me sort of an inflated you know version of who I am and and therefore set a very dangerous path so she kind of beat humility humility humility yeah humility yeah
Guest:Humility into me.
Marc:It's a tough one.
Marc:It is a tough one.
Marc:You actually got humility from trying to pronounce humility.
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:I'm extremely, I feel very humble now.
Guest:But that was, you know, she never let me accept special treatment.
Marc:Well, when did you, okay, let's go back because.
Guest:She provided a very grounded context for me as a child.
Marc:Well, it's sort of hard, I would imagine, because in most cases, I mean, the ones we hear about where child actors have these parents who are sort of like, you know, on top of it, like, you know, literally, you know, pimping out their kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And the other side.
Marc:And they become the monster.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And so they're just sort of running this kid and giving the kid whatever he wants and let him get indulged in whatever anyone puts up into his head.
Marc:And they just, you know, ride it out for the cash.
Marc:But that doesn't seem to be the case.
Marc:Not at all.
Marc:And where did you grow up, though, for the eight years that you were wherever you were?
Guest:Iowa.
Guest:Cedar Rapids.
Marc:Cedar Rapids, Iowa?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's there?
Guest:There's a Quaker Oats factory.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:Did you smell it in the air?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's called the city of five cents, I think.
Guest:Really?
Marc:As in S-E-N-S-E or S-C-E-N-T-S?
Marc:S-E-N-T-S.
Marc:S-C-E-N-T-S.
Marc:S-C-E-N-T-S, yeah.
Marc:S-C-E-N-T-S.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:What are the other four?
Marc:I'm not sure.
Marc:You're not sure?
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:But I think the Quaker Oat Factory tends to dominate.
Marc:And what kind of world was it that you have siblings and stuff?
Guest:Siblings.
Guest:I have an older brother and a younger sister.
Marc:And did they end up in the show business field?
Guest:My brother did for a while.
Guest:He did commercials and...
Guest:Parts on television and until he went to college and he quit and he went to college briefly and then Ended up getting into the video game world now.
Guest:He produces video games.
Marc:So it's it's entertainment.
Guest:Yeah, and your sister my sister kind of had a Dalliance with it very briefly and realized it wasn't for her really so everybody kind of just chose their own path Did she did she fit on the screen though like is it genetic?
Guest:I mean, I think she's adorable.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But like, you know, like I've always wondered that because, you know, you look at the Baldwin clan, you look at the, you know, you know, some for better, for worse.
Marc:They all seem to hold a screen.
Marc:I mean, holding a screen is important.
Marc:I just wondered if you ever thought it was genetic at all.
Guest:I suppose.
Guest:Yeah, I think my sister can hold a screen.
Guest:I mean, I think she's got a dynamic presence.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so you're eight years old, but why in Cedar Rapids?
Marc:I mean, how did it unfold that you end up this child star?
Guest:To get to Los Angeles?
Marc:Well, that and sort of what's your old man do?
Marc:What was in the house?
Marc:How did that all, what did they do, the family do?
Guest:My dad worked at a box factory.
Guest:After that, my mother and my father started a cafe, like a deli, called Alfalfas.
Guest:And then they started another one after that called The Super.
Marc:Was it a groovy cafe?
Marc:Like kind of like a cool place to hang out?
Guest:No, it was quite traditional.
Guest:You know, like a deli, deli sandwiches.
Guest:My mom kind of developed the menu.
Guest:And this was right in downtown Cedar Rapids?
Guest:The alfalfas was in a mall and then the super was downtown.
Marc:In a mall.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's middle America, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You go visit your parents at work at the mall.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe hang out at the restaurant.
Marc:I did that after school.
Guest:I would go to the restaurant after school and hang out.
Marc:Did you go to the video game place in the mall?
Marc:Did they have one?
Guest:The arcade?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't remember getting into arcades until I was a teenager.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I was too young.
Guest:But, you know, when I was eight years old, the first Nintendo system came out.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So I have very vivid memories of that.
Marc:You probably covered all of this on Hardwick's show, right?
Marc:I mean, did you...
Marc:It didn't actually, but it is appropriate for Hardwick's show.
Marc:When did it first happen?
Marc:When did your nerd freak flag fly first?
Marc:But I still don't, how do you get from that life to stardom?
Marc:I mean, you're in Iowa.
Marc:I mean, what events unfolded?
Guest:essentially when i was when i was five my mother was watching this is the story okay as she tells it um as she tells it well do you have a version as well it's i think it's accurate okay she was i was five she was watching television she saw a commercial yeah and she looked at the commercial she thought oh that'd be that would be fun for elijah to do you know i had a lot of energy as a child and she figured that would be an interesting outlet for my energy right
Guest:But there's no outlet for that in Iowa at all.
Guest:Like there's no, you know.
Guest:Local TV.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:So she put me in a modeling school, which I think had some sort of acting component.
Guest:My brother at the time was also was kind of more actively invested in that kind of thing because he was doing plays and musicals at school.
Marc:He's older.
Guest:He's older.
Guest:Seven years older.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Seven.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're the youngest or the middle?
Guest:Middle child.
Guest:My sister's two and a half years younger than me.
Guest:Wow, they waited.
Guest:That's a big... Big gap.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I ended up going to this modeling school, and I actually did sort of local modeling, both print and runway at malls.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:As a seven-year-old?
Marc:As a six, seven-year-old.
Marc:That must have just been adorable.
Guest:It was... Do you have any video of that?
Guest:I've got photos.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's pretty ridiculous.
Guest:But basically, the school that we were involved in took a number of the students out to Los Angeles for this modeling and talent convention that occurs here every year called the IMTA.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so my mom, my brother and I flew out to Los Angeles for this convention.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I met the man who ultimately became my manager.
Guest:And I was running around the hotel.
Guest:This guy stopped me and he said, you know, would you ever think about becoming an actor?
Guest:And, you know, I was seven at the time.
Guest:Seven.
Guest:So I was like, that sounds great.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That sounds fun.
Guest:Where do I stand?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Seven.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the guy approaches you.
Marc:That would have been sorted in any other situation.
Guest:In any other circumstance, absolutely.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Some guy like, hey, kid.
Marc:Slightly frightening.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You look like you should be in pictures.
Marc:It's all context, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so was your mom nearby at least?
Guest:She was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was.
Guest:So we ultimately, we moved back, we went back to Iowa and then came out here for what was intended upon like a three to four month trip to start auditioning during pilot season.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:For television.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And commercials and any number of things.
Guest:I got a commercial agent.
Guest:My brother did as well.
Guest:And I just started auditioning.
Guest:And within the first six weeks of auditioning, I got my first job, which is a Paula Abdul music video for Forever Your Girl.
Guest:that I later realized was directed by David Fincher before he started making films.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Funnily enough.
Marc:We've all got those dirty secrets, I guess.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it a dark and slightly- It's actually, it's pretty artistic.
Marc:It's really beautiful.
Guest:A lot of it's in black and white.
Marc:Have you seen him and said... I have.
Guest:I have, yeah.
Marc:And did he remember you and say like, yeah, I remember you.
Guest:He did.
Guest:That kid.
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I'm sorry that I don't have that in my mental imagery, the exact music video.
Guest:You can look it up after.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So you don't want to describe to me your role in that?
Guest:Well, it was basically...
Guest:So kids and adult, sort of kids as adults.
Guest:So I played a young executive in a suit, sort of pining for my lost love, I guess.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I'm sitting at this desk.
Guest:As much as you can understand that at that time.
Guest:I break a pencil in frustration.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was sort of the scenario.
Guest:They also had kids dressed up as the girls from the Robert Palmer video.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:That's appropriate.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Anyway, so after that, I did a number of commercials, and then I started auditioning for films, and my first film role was a tiny part of Back to the Future 2.
Guest:Speaking?
Guest:It was, actually, in the cafe 80s, trying to work a video game, and then Michael J. Fox comes over and tells us how to play it.
Guest:That was pretty mind-blowing, considering I'd seen the original film.
Guest:And to be in that context of that set was a lot for a child of that age.
Guest:Did you just take to it?
Guest:You didn't freak out at all?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:It felt... Yeah, it's weird thinking back on it, because I'm obviously thinking on it now from an adult perspective.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But my memory of it was that it all kind of made sense to me.
Guest:And...
Guest:How that is, I really don't know how to articulate that.
Marc:Just the idea of action is action, cut is cut, you're acting now, there's Michael J. Fox.
Guest:Playing a character, understanding that, understanding that I had dialogue to remember in the context of playing a character.
Guest:Somehow that all clicked for me.
Marc:And you had not really had any coaching?
Marc:Not really.
Marc:You definitely look very specifically you.
Marc:No one looks like you.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, that's a good thing.
Marc:And I think that you have sort of a unique thing.
Marc:You know, but you're not a type.
Marc:You're not a type.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You're Elijah Wood.
Guest:I suppose, yeah.
Guest:Except for the fact that after Lord of the Rings, people confuse me with Daniel Radcliffe a lot.
Marc:oh yeah okay so that happens a lot yeah but uh i can see that but i think you had to jump on it you know if anything you know he was created later that's my in my mind yes you know if there was any sort of uh glomming you know he's uh elijah wood type i see oh well thank you but so people come up to you and go like yeah harry potter totally and and i also just confusing their fantasy movies i think they are that's ultimately the thing
Marc:People don't fucking know.
Guest:No, they don't.
Guest:They don't fucking pay attention.
Guest:That's the funny thing.
Marc:I saw a movie he did that was pretty racy, man.
Marc:That was up in Sundance.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:It was about Allen Ginsberg.
Marc:He played Allen Ginsberg.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:That was some decision to make after Harry Potter to be sort of graphically and erotically sodomized by another man.
Marc:Damn.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like that...
Guest:Was that Kill Our Darlings?
Guest:Is that the film?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was a pretty great depiction of... The beat generation.
Marc:In a way, because it's hard to do that.
Marc:Especially if you have anything invested in worshipping them.
Marc:It's very hard to capture those personalities that are going to live up to what you think they were.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:But what's his name, who I like, played Burroughs.
Marc:You know, the guy from Alpha Dog and from Yuma, too.
Marc:You know, he's a very intense... Foster?
Marc:Ben Foster.
Marc:Ben Foster's so good.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:What's up with that guy?
Marc:Have you worked with him?
Guest:I've never worked with him.
Guest:I know people that know him well.
Guest:He's an extraordinary actor.
Guest:He's just someone that jumps in with such intensity and makes such interesting choices, sometimes within the context of roles that don't necessarily call for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I kind of love that about him, that he'll take something that on paper is sort of basic or average, and you can kind of have...
Guest:A very average look at what that portrayal might be, and he does something totally different.
Marc:Well, he's a very intense guy.
Marc:He's got a lot of juice.
Marc:Now, when you say something like Ben Foster makes choices, so now you're eight, how does that evolve in you?
Marc:At some point, do you call in somebody?
Marc:Do you take classes?
Marc:How did you learn that?
Guest:I didn't take classes.
Guest:I took one improv class when I was eight or nine.
Guest:That was the bulk of it.
Guest:I think for me, it was as I grew into my teenage years, I think I just became more aware of the craft and self-aware.
Guest:A huge turning point for me was actually a movie called The Ice Storm.
Marc:That movie, I've watched it several times.
Marc:And it's a fucking masterpiece.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't know how Ang Lee works.
Marc:And that story was relentless.
Marc:And your character was like, I think that's when I really noticed that you've got chops, you've got this focus, you were able to sort of make that character something that wasn't necessarily you.
Marc:There was definitely choices in that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's a big role.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That was your first big role.
Guest:Yeah, and I sort of saw it as the first time that I'd approached acting or been allowed to approach acting from a relatively different or serious perspective.
Guest:It's not that I didn't take it seriously before, but working with that caliber of actor, with the cast that we had and with that director and with that material, I just never had that opportunity before.
Guest:And the character was very unlike me and very different from anything I'd played before.
Guest:And the approach was so interesting.
Guest:We were each given a packet of information on the 1970s for research.
Guest:We were given music to listen to that our characters might listen to.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were all given question and answer forms for our characters to fill out.
Guest:So I'd never been engaged in that way or engaged the process in that way.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think that sounds like a fairly unique...
Marc:And that was Ang Lee's choice?
Guest:That was all Ang.
Guest:And then we had a week's rehearsal that incorporated everything from Tai Chi, which we did together, and he'd pair certain people up to do Tai Chi, this thing called pushing hands, which is sort of like a...
Guest:it's kind of a trust-based thing movement together and then we would also discuss he would pair different actors off that had relationships within the context of the film and then we would discuss our relationships as the characters and then you know work out movements I'd never had that kind of in-depth process before and it really opened my eyes to what acting could be the possibilities and
Marc:Well, it seemed like he was almost in order to like because I it was that was my childhood because I was born in 63.
Marc:So what you're that was that took place in 73, I think 73.
Marc:So I would have been 10.
Marc:So I would have been like your brother's age.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You had the brother, the younger brother who liked to blow things up.
Marc:But isn't that the kid?
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Adam Hanbird.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And so it all looked like, it jarred something in my memory.
Marc:Because I was literally a child during that time.
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Marc:In Albuquerque.
Marc:But it was really capturing, you know, where adults were at, you know, just post the 60s.
Marc:You know, adults with, you know, all of a sudden that have, you know, that didn't get fucked up in the 60s and made a little money.
Marc:And now they're building, you know, their version of what they think is a family.
Marc:And the weird sort of emotional confusion of that time period and how culture was changing.
Marc:So, like, it all felt emotionally familiar to me.
Marc:You know, like, you know, basement playrooms and that shit.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:So, like, you didn't come from any of that, but it seemed to me that what Ang Lee was trying to do was, like, he didn't... He wanted to make sure that... Because he was painstaking in capturing, you know, the architecture and the type of house and also the type of suburb that would have that upper middle class, you know, vibe to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With literally, you know, grown-ups that...
Marc:that were, they didn't seem to know really how to be grownups.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The, the grownups were almost, um, more, more childlike than their children.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The children seem to be a little bit more onto things than the adults were.
Marc:So this whole preparation, it seems to me that you almost got like a crash course and character building.
Guest:Yeah, I would say so.
Marc:So what, do you remember some of the music that they made you listen to?
Guest:Yeah, it was Dark Side of the Moon.
Guest:This is for your character specifically?
Guest:This was for my character, yeah.
Guest:Because my character was, his head was kind of in the clouds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Clearly off somewhere else.
Guest:But very bright.
Guest:Very bright, yeah.
Marc:Like scientifically bright.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:You could wrap your brain around big ideas and mathematics.
Marc:And hence Dark Side of the Moon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did it affect a change in you when you were building the character like that?
Guest:I think it did.
Guest:Yeah, it totally did.
Guest:The whole process did.
Guest:I think I understood the character.
Guest:I thought I understood the character before that, and I certainly understood it on a deeper level after.
Marc:And when you do Tai Chi with somebody, was this to provoke... Like, did you find emotions in that?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like...
Marc:It's interesting to me.
Guest:I think it felt more about connectivity than anything else.
Guest:Trust and connectivity with another person.
Guest:It was very cool.
Marc:Now, okay, so now you do this, you're in that movie, and the scene that stands out in my mind was the exhilaration of the diving board.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And that like for some reason you had played it so well that, you know, you almost felt the almost mathematical excitement that you were experiencing by ice forming.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And everything dying.
Guest:I mean, the idea that ice is because for him, it's about the molecules being everywhere.
Guest:And when there's an ice storm, it freezes everything.
Guest:So everything's kind of perfect for that time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think that's what he's so enamored by.
Marc:So this is a moment where there's no chaos.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Everything's perfect.
Marc:Complete still.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And that's what you were thinking.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you feel the elation of it?
Marc:Like, I'm a little fascinated with that character.
Marc:When you knew you were going to die in that peculiar way.
Marc:See, I never even thought about that.
Marc:Now I'm just going to get excited about a movie you did in 1997.
Marc:That's what the rest of the talk is going to be.
Marc:So did you consider the sort of narrative mathematics of something so completely random killing you that like this is your moment to understand where everything is calm, chaos is subsided, math makes sense, everything makes sense, and then this fucking random thing just boom.
Marc:But when you died, there was a chemistry to that too.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:That there must have, like that moment, how did you frame that in your head?
Guest:Well, it's also, it's so ironic, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That he dies doing, you know, connecting to the very thing that, you know, brings him some sort of peace.
Guest:And suddenly out of that peace comes the very chaos he was trying to get away from.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That wasn't lost on me for sure.
Guest:But it's also, you know, in playing it, it comes out of nowhere.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there's no expectations.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's just, and, you know, literally he's enjoying a peaceful moment and he dies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and sort of slumps over and slides down the road.
Guest:Which is sort of beautiful.
Guest:And his parka.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, with the hood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right after jumping through the ice and just experiencing this great moment of elation.
Guest:Elation.
Guest:Pure elation.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That fucking movie's a masterpiece.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:I gotta watch it again.
Guest:Do you ever watch it?
Guest:I haven't seen it in a long time, but that's a movie that I would re-watch.
Guest:I mean, I genuinely love it.
Marc:When you watch yourself, are you like, you know, ah, good job.
Wow!
Guest:I don't know about that.
Guest:I think it's a bit of a process.
Guest:When I see something for the first time, I often find that process to be a little overwhelming.
Guest:Mainly because I'm not looking specifically at my performance.
Guest:I'm looking at the whole thing and how it's all coming together.
Guest:And when you've worked on something, you know, with a group of people over the course of three to six months or whatever it is, you have so much of your own personal emotional ties to the experience.
Guest:And then seeing that play itself out in the context of the film can just be overwhelming.
Guest:It's a lot of images coming at you.
Guest:And you also don't know what choices the directors are going to make until... And you're seeing those choices come to life for the first time.
Guest:So it's a little overwhelming, but...
Guest:I think I spend more time and more interest looking at the bigger picture than my performance specifically.
Guest:And seeing my performance in the context of a movie, I don't find it uncomfortable to watch.
Guest:Some people don't like to watch themselves at all.
Guest:I don't really like to watch myself on a monitor on the day that we're shooting.
Guest:I don't really like that.
Guest:I'd rather trust the director.
Guest:Yeah, because it's all raw.
Guest:I don't need to see the take we just did.
Marc:yeah because it looks like someone did it with their phone like you know it's just like to see like there's no sound there's you have no idea how it's going to be amazing right i'd rather just do what i feel it feel feel that it is going in the right direction and trust the director some trust in that yeah and you do you have you worked with directors that were difficult or that you couldn't trust i mean what like you obviously work with levinson when he was when you were very young i don't know i'm trying to remember your part in internal affairs that was with
Marc:It was tiny.
Marc:You were a kid.
Marc:My biggest director of that.
Marc:Oh, that's a demonic movie.
Marc:Oh, it's great.
Marc:It's a great movie.
Marc:Great movie.
Marc:That scene where he's just fucking that guy's wife.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And just smiles at him when he walks in.
Guest:I didn't actually see that movie until I was an adult.
Guest:Because my mom was like, there's no fucking way you're seeing this.
Guest:Because my, you know, the little part that I had was like these little familial moments.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Totally outside of the context of the darkness of the movie.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, okay, I'm just going, now I'm just looking at the ones that I know that, oh, you worked with Macaulay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you guys pals?
Guest:I haven't seen him in years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've run into him on a couple of occasions, but we didn't really keep in contact even then.
Guest:There's no Child Star Club?
Guest:Not that I have a membership, too.
Guest:I always wonder about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I think...
Guest:When I was a teenager and growing up into becoming my own person in the context of this industry, I don't know.
Guest:I never really gravitated towards having friends that were actors, which some of that was not necessarily a choice.
Guest:It was also circumstantial because you connect with who you connect with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But...
Guest:After a while, it was nice to have a separation from the world that I was in.
Guest:It was nice that my friends did other things.
Guest:What do your friends do?
Guest:My friends now, I mean, a lot of them are artists.
Guest:They're photographers.
Guest:Photographers?
Guest:Painters?
Guest:Meet painters?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've got friends that are painters.
Guest:I've got friends who work in production.
Guest:I've got a couple of actor friends, but mostly different parts of... I've got people who work in the food industry that are friends of mine.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Food?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like cooks?
Guest:Chefs?
Guest:Yeah, friends with chefs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Friends with people that manage restaurants.
Guest:That's a whole... I mean, I love that whole industry.
Guest:I'm a huge...
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How far away from getting involved?
Guest:I'm actually in the process of talking to some friends about opening a pie restaurant, of all things.
Marc:A pie restaurant?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Not here, though.
Guest:It would be in Austin, Texas.
Marc:Sure, you want to make it very special pies.
Marc:I like pie.
Marc:There's nothing not to like about pie.
Guest:Yeah, I don't have a huge sweet tooth.
Guest:I don't love cake, but I really like pie.
Guest:I've got a lot of time for pie.
Guest:And I like savory pies too, like meat pies.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You ever been to the Pie Hole downtown?
Marc:No, but I like the name.
Marc:The Pie Hole.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Is that a relatively new restaurant?
Guest:It's been around for like three, four years.
Marc:Sometimes, like, you know, I don't seek out... I'll have a nice piece of pie occasionally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there's part of me that thinks, like, if you're going to eat pie, it should be dirty pie.
Marc:And you should just go to House of Pies and just fuck it.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Sit there with the people that are... Or the apple pan.
Guest:Have you ever had... Yeah.
Guest:The apple pan pie is great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so is it pie is comforting to you or you just... What is it?
Marc:You just...
Marc:What is it about pie?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But I talk about pie, too.
Marc:I dig pie, man.
Marc:I had a moment at a diner in New York in Astoria, Queens, where I would go.
Marc:Personally, for diner food, I like rice pudding for some reason.
Guest:Love rice pudding.
Marc:Love it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Not an easy thing to find.
Guest:It's not served that many places.
Marc:But in the East Coast.
Marc:coast it's a traditional it's a staple it's a diner staple not the baked rice pudding but the kind that's the white rice pudding is that this is that that's an eastern european dish isn't it i you know maybe it may that would make sense but like i remember eating with my grandmother and i would seek out rice pudding and you can only get it and you should get it at a diner in new jersey yeah yeah you have to get a diner in new jersey but there was this moment where i also like greek diners so greek desserts i love greek diners uh what's the big
Marc:uh the the phyllo dough baklava sure yeah and then there's another one called gala de budica which is like it's like just phyllo dough with this egg custard in it like living in astoria i had to eat that stuff but i had this moment where i'm sitting in the diner and i'm looking in the back booth and there were dudes that look like fucking gangsters like real deal like goodfellas like i i decided in their eyes that they had just cut a guy up
Marc:All right.
Marc:Decided in their eyes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That I said they just did what they had to do.
Marc:They just got rid of a body.
Marc:And now they're eating pie.
Marc:And I'm eating pie.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:It's the great equalizer.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:It transcends good and evil.
Guest:It does.
Marc:It's what makes us all one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pie.
Marc:Pie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Brings everybody together.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:For better or for worse, can't we just have a moment where we sit and eat pie?
Marc:I mean, it's a great American tradition.
Marc:It absolutely is.
Marc:And I've always thought that about like, you know, India and Pakistan.
Marc:Like there was part of me, it's like, I love Indian food and the food's not that much different.
Marc:I mean, how can there be such problems when you have that bread?
Marc:I mean, non-bread.
Marc:Can't we just eat some non-bread and let it go?
Marc:Take a rest.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There should just be like a national non-bread day.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:For India and Pakistan.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Just to enjoy it.
Guest:Just to enjoy it.
Marc:And people just go, come on, garlic knot?
Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:So Austin, so you spend time in Austin?
Guest:I do, yeah.
Guest:Do you have a house there?
Guest:I do, which unfortunately was just made public.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, this is one of the unfortunate elements of fame.
Guest:Well, I'm just being recognizable that, you know, it's nothing to whine about because the trade-off is that you get to do the thing that you love to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But with that, there are prices to pay and privacy is certainly one of them.
Guest:Yeah, I bought this house in December.
Guest:I've been going to Austin for years.
Guest:I've got a lot of friends in Austin and it's always felt like home.
Guest:So I finally got a place there and literally two days ago, it made the rounds on various internet news blogs that I'd bought the house.
Guest:pictures of the house and the address really yeah and that what was particularly upsetting was how the journalism is so tabloid fueled so it just it's so gross I call it I call it troll culture yeah that it's all you know because there's such a hunger for content and controversy has such a juice to it that it's almost entirely predatory
Guest:yeah and and you know total disregard for the pot that you know for the fact that that could potentially be offensive and you know put me in a precarious position dangerous yeah it's dangerous yeah I mean but what do you have you okay first of all when did why did you just start going to Austin what drew you to I first went to Austin in 1997 I spent a summer there working on a movie called the faculty that Robert Rodriguez directed his whole operation is there
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then years after that, I went to Austin a couple years in a row for their South by Southwest music and film festival, which I'm sure you've been to.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, I go pretty frequently.
Marc:Now they have a comedy festival out there, which is good.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And I pride myself... Fun Fun Fun Fest has a comedy section to it, right?
Marc:Well, they used to have comedy at the actual...
Marc:It's gone through a lot of, you know, there is a Sundance comedy element, not Sundance, South by Southwest comedy element.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But now there's literally just its own festival, the Moon Tower Comedy Festival.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:It's its own thing.
Guest:That's awesome.
Marc:They just did their second year and it was great.
Marc:And...
Marc:I love going there because I actually have found this.
Marc:I went out of my way to find a barbecue place that was far enough away that it wasn't on the radar really of like, because everyone goes to, what is it, Black's or to Lockhart.
Marc:Yeah, Lockhart.
Marc:To go to Lockhart.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I go the other way.
Marc:I go to.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:The.
Guest:Opies.
Guest:Opies.
Guest:Never heard of Opies.
Guest:See that.
Marc:Whoa.
Marc:See that.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:And how's Opies?
Marc:It's fucking great, man.
Marc:And the thing that's great about it is like, I went to, I've been to the Salt Lake.
Marc:Nah.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You know, it's okay.
Marc:Salt Lake.
Marc:I mean, I think a lot of those places are great.
Marc:Salt Lake.
Marc:They're all good.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Once you get to a certain level.
Marc:And I went to Black's and Lockhart and I know I should have.
Marc:Did you go to Smitty's?
Marc:No, I didn't go to Smitty's and I didn't go to the other German sounding one.
Marc:Kreitz's.
Marc:Kreitz's.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:But like, you know, and I knew that was a thing and I know there's wars and I know there's Franklin's in town and some people.
Marc:Franklin is the best brisket you'll ever have in your life.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Marc:okay i i you know i understand but again we're dealing at a certain level where it's all pretty fucking good yep okay true so now from what i understand i did uh like a show some sort of you know talking head show local show and this food critic an austin food person and i said you know seriously you know i like barbecue i want to go and she just went you just you got to go to opi's and i'm like
Marc:I have never heard of Opie's.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's the thing and that's the beauty of it.
Guest:That is beautiful because everybody else is going to all those places.
Marc:That everybody knows about, that they've written about forever.
Guest:And dude, Franklin, you cannot go to Franklin without waiting in line for about an hour and a half at the minimum.
Marc:You don't have to go.
Marc:Tell me you don't have to get online.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Please.
Marc:Dude, I will stand in line for anything that is worth it.
Marc:You didn't tell me that the dude from Franklin doesn't go come around the side?
Marc:Nah.
Marc:He did that for Aziz Ansari.
Marc:He's not going to do that for Elijah Wood.
Marc:You can't go around the side.
Guest:But see, I wouldn't do that.
Guest:I find that so offensive.
Marc:Personally, at the level I'm at, because I'm not that pronounced a public figure.
Marc:People know where I live.
Marc:And occasionally people will come by and put a sticker on the wall just to acknowledge it.
Marc:They came by.
Marc:It's creepy, but it's cool.
Marc:But I'm not at a point where I walk down the street and everyone's going to go, Frodo.
Marc:I'm not that guy.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So if somebody says, you want to come around the side?
Marc:I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, I'll come around the side.
Marc:But if you do it, then it's sort of like, Elijah Wood ran around the side.
Marc:And then you're that guy in Austin.
Marc:You can't be that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:i i just yeah i think i've always found that i don't like to ask for things no uh i'd rather just kind of go the normal route and if if in the context of that normal route someone says hey you know we can get you this now if you want it i wouldn't shut them down sure sure but i don't seek out the right no no yeah you don't like have a guy calling ahead
Guest:it's nice to get special treatment because people appreciate your work it's nice but you don't want to offend people and you don't want to look like the guy that does that or moreover except um expect it that's right that's the danger i think that's true it's the people that that start to expect that treatment i'm okay with receiving it it's a nice bonus but if you start to if your whole essence is that that's supposed to be the way it is all the time yeah no no that's dangerous you lose your gratitude you lose yeah people send you don't appreciate things that
Marc:Oh, dude, yeah.
Marc:I mean, when I get something, because people listen to the show, even if there's an agenda behind it, even if someone says, you know, hey, could you wear this hat in the thing?
Marc:You know, like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't really like this hat.
Marc:Just wear it in the thing, one picture.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:I get that, too.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's like, you know, I'm not going to wear the hat if I don't like it, but I'm, like, thrilled that I have the hat.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, thank you for the hat.
Marc:I like it when it's genuine.
Marc:I like when people offer you stuff because, like, you know, you've put a lot of work in.
Marc:It's made an important impact on my life.
Marc:I want you to have this because you're wearing the picture.
Yeah.
Marc:There's always a caveat there.
Marc:Always.
Marc:So now that your address is prominent and documented, what is your experience with people that seek you out in an obsessive way?
Guest:I haven't had too many experiences with it.
Guest:I used to live in Santa Monica and there were people that found out that I lived there and arrived at the doorstep, sort of knocked on the door and said hello.
Guest:How do you handle that?
Guest:And with, it's a tough one, you know, as someone who's a human being and wants to treat people with respect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a delicate balance in scenarios like that because you want your privacy to be respected.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the same time, I don't want to treat someone poorly.
Guest:They've made this sort of move.
Guest:It's an uncomfortable one for me, but at the same time, they're human beings and you want to treat them well as you turn them away.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You want to try to have boundaries but be polite.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Which is a hard thing sometimes for people, you know, because it takes a certain kind of person to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, to a certain degree, the screws might not be incredibly tight at that stage.
Marc:It's a diplomatic phrasing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It takes a certain kind of person to find themselves on your front door with... Because you don't know, what are they expecting exactly?
Marc:And usually in those moments, they're not sure...
Guest:either i don't think they are i don't think they've thought it through right when when you've answered the door they're all i mean what's supposed to happen there yeah i know and do you say like hi uh okay basically yeah thank you yeah i'm with my family now or
Guest:But, you know, I appreciate- Calling the police.
Guest:Yeah, I've never done that.
Guest:I've never done that.
Guest:And I really have had a very minimal experience with that in my life.
Guest:I'm also not at the level of fame as someone like Brad Pitt or-
Marc:any of those folks who probably have to deal with that on a much deeper level but but what is that what is the the difference there because it would seem to me that you know certainly in work and in profile you are sort of at the level of fame but you I think it's because he I don't know that you would consider yourself a movie star I wouldn't and I think Brad Pitt you know would he's probably a movie star right do you make that differentiation in your head have you ever thought about that
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:I think that's fair to say.
Marc:That's fair to say.
Marc:You're an actor who's done a lot of things, but it just seems that certain people, either they're put there by the culture, that there's this point where it's like, well, that guy's a movie star.
Marc:And I think that probably offers you a little more privacy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I think it's also in how one lives their life.
Guest:I live my life in a very normal, average, day-to-day way.
Guest:I go where I want to go.
Guest:I don't walk out of my door anticipating being recognized or having my privacy infringed upon.
Guest:I just do what I'm going to do, like everyone else.
Guest:And I think part of that...
Guest:Because I carry myself with that atmosphere of not being worried about people coming up to me.
Guest:I'm so anxious about it.
Guest:People tend to be pretty cool.
Guest:I think it's a perspective.
Guest:I certainly feel that in Austin because I think genuinely people in Austin don't give a fuck.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they tend to be pretty protective of their local folks that sort of have come from Austin.
Guest:And, you know, it's got a real Southern mentality.
Guest:So I've always, I've been going to Austin for years and I've always been treated like a local.
Marc:And I really appreciate that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think I did an impression of Austin.
Marc:I can't remember what the angle was, but I tried to do an impression on stage of the city of Austin.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was something along the lines of like, you know, fuck you, I'm back.
Marc:Like the idea that we went somewhere else, we tried to do something, but now we're back and we're comfortable.
Marc:There's an organic creative community, but there's also the feeling of people that were inherently talented and had a hard go of it and then came back and like, this is where I am.
Marc:This is where I live.
Marc:This is what I do.
Guest:I think that's true.
Guest:I think people do leave Austin for New York.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:LA.
Guest:I got beat up.
Guest:Now I'm here.
Guest:Come back.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But the difference between other small towns in Austin in that same scenario is that they can actually continue to do something creative in Austin.
Guest:No, I think that's true.
Marc:Because it fosters it pretty well.
Marc:No, no, I think that's absolutely true.
Marc:I call it the hipster Alamo.
Marc:They're just sort of like protecting themselves and defining themselves against the rest of Texas.
Guest:It's cool.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's definitely an oasis.
Marc:It's not reflective of the rest of Texas.
Marc:No, no, I love it.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Did you buy a fixer-upper or did you buy like a full-on?
Guest:It had been fixed up by the couple that had previously owned it.
Guest:So no, it was done.
Guest:But I love a fixer-upper too.
Guest:Have you done that?
No.
Guest:I have.
Guest:I have with my family.
Guest:I've never done that on my own.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I love that idea.
Guest:And they all live here?
Guest:Yeah, my mom is here.
Guest:My brother and my sister are both here.
Guest:And their dad?
Guest:Dad is back in Iowa.
Guest:They're separated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're not together.
Guest:Not together.
Marc:When did that happen?
Guest:That happened when I was 16.
Guest:Well, that's kind of a bad time for that.
Guest:I actually think in some ways it would have been harder for me to take if I were younger.
Guest:It was around 15 or 16 that my mom actually came to us and sort of said that that was the decision she was making.
Guest:And at that time, we all understood.
Guest:It didn't seem like a shock.
Guest:It didn't leave any emotional scarring.
Guest:It was something that I was able to emotionally and intellectually understand at that age.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you have a relationship with both of them?
Guest:I have a very strong relationship with my mom, but not so much with my dad.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Whose choice is that?
Guest:I think it's a bit of both.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know that it entirely rests on me and my brother and my sister, because they don't have a relationship with him either.
Guest:But I think it's just one of those things.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Dads are tough.
Guest:yeah well i think family's tough i guess so it is yeah you know it's a hand that gets dealt to you unlike your unlike friendships which are relationships that you choose you don't choose your your family relationships yeah they can either damn it they can either go well or not right you know
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, that's absolutely true.
Marc:So with the Lord of the Rings, I didn't realize that the Lord of the Rings, all those movies were shot before Eternal Sunshine?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we shot Eternal Sunshine in 2003.
Guest:Lord of the Rings we shot from the end of 1999, principal photography, the end of 1999 through 2000.
Guest:um so they oh so they shot them all at once all at once and then we went back each year so in 2001 we went back to new zealand and shot pickups and additional footage did you buy a house in new zealand i didn't i didn't it's still something i would love to do i mean it i've never been there oh it's beautiful i hear it's like like the most beautiful place in the world it's probably the most beautiful place i've ever been to yeah yeah it's it has everything from you know incredible beaches to mountains and fjords and yeah it's extraordinary
Marc:Now, when you get that opportunity, because it's an amazing work commitment, it's an amazing project, what was the process of being offered that and your relationship with Peter Jackson and that kind of stuff?
Marc:How does that unfold?
Guest:Well, I was 18 at the time, and I had heard actually about a year, almost two years prior to when they started casting, I'd heard that Peter was involved.
Guest:So in 1997, when I was in Austin, Harry Knowles, who has Ain't It Cool News, movie news website...
Guest:um he's a local Austinite he was on set and he said hey I hear that Peter Jackson's directing Lord of the Rings you should play Frodo it just was so abstract yeah um but it was exciting I was a fan of Peter's work prior to that anyway um in 1999 they started casting um maybe end of 98 um
Guest:And my agent called and said that they're casting Lord of the Rings and you should put yourself up for Frodo.
Guest:And Peter was traveling but was primarily casting out of New Zealand and then was kind of traveling to specific places to meet people he'd seen tapes of and to do kind of one-on-one interviews with them.
Guest:And so I didn't have a chance.
Guest:I knew I wasn't going to be able to meet him.
Guest:But I also, the only option that was given to me was to go into like a casting office in a white, you know, nondescript room and sort of read with a casting director.
Guest:And I just, I was so excited at the prospect of being a part of the film.
Guest:And I ended up going in and reading the script, you know, under sort of like closed locked door because they weren't letting the script out.
Marc:Oh, you had to sit there and do it?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Woody Allen does that.
Marc:At the casting office.
Marc:And you couldn't leave with anything?
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't take a little secret camera.
Guest:It was before iPhones, too.
Guest:So, um, I... Why is it taking you three hours?
Guest:No, nothing.
Guest:Just...
Guest:Page by page.
Guest:So I knew that I was passionate about it and I wanted to do something that would display my passion for it.
Guest:And I knew everybody under the sun was auditioning for it.
Guest:So I decided to make my own tape and I got a book on hobbits and like artwork that sort of defined what they look like.
Guest:I remember that book.
Guest:It was like a coffee table book.
Guest:There's a few, but yeah.
Guest:And I went to Western Costume in the Valley and got a costume that I thought was befitting a hobbit.
Guest:And I shot the audition scenes with some friends of mine in a couple of different locations.
Guest:Like at a mall?
Guest:One was at my house, which was supposed to be like Bag End, and then the others were outside in a forest.
Marc:You didn't take them into the modern world at all.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:So we cut it together that night, and then I delivered the tape to the casting office, and then that was FedEx to Peter, who was in London at the time.
Guest:And as the story goes, I guess he saw it and loved it and incredibly sort of saw the character.
Guest:I would love to see that video now because I don't think it's at all close to what I did in the film.
Guest:No?
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:The accent was probably off and different.
Marc:Was that because of direction or how much of it was left up to you?
Marc:I mean, what was his vision compared to your vision?
Marc:Where did that meet in the middle?
Guest:it was a it was a collaboration um you know also the accent changed um what it became more it was quite a light accent and relatively standard um slightly british i can't remember it's british yeah it's a it's a standard it's like a very basic english accent right in the in the hobbit though in in general like i don't know the books i was never i couldn't lock in you know it wasn't
Marc:fantasy has never been my thing.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But, but in, in the books, it is a specific, uh, type of accent though, right?
Marc:It is its own world and its own thing.
Guest:It's its own world, but the understanding is that it's, um, you know, almost like a, uh, uh,
Guest:prehistory for england okay there's a lot of english references right so it's sort of very english now do you did you just sort of mimic that or did you yeah so i did a i did a couple of sessions with a dialect coach in la prior to doing the audition thing um so i had an idea of what i was supposed to do and you're good at it you can walk in i suppose it's not easy uh certain accents are really complicated english i i feel comfortable with
Marc:what are some of the more challenging ones Irish Scottish those are tricky I can't I find them really hard New Zealand I find difficult yeah yeah yeah because it's not Australian it's sort of its own thing yeah it's much nuances I can barely talk properly now you
Marc:You have a hard enough time with your own accent.
Marc:That's exactly right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the idea of locking in to an accent and just letting that be and acting in character.
Guest:That's actually, an accent for a character is so great because it's so defining.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It does so much of the work for the character.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:When you're playing a character that is in your own voice, you look to other ways to define the character.
Guest:And having an accent does so much of that work.
Guest:It's not your voice.
Guest:It's another voice.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So what was some of the... We talked about the ice storm a little bit.
Marc:I mean, now you're looking at...
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Three, five, seven, eight hours of screen time.
Marc:And you know the journey.
Marc:What was the driving force of the character in your mind?
Marc:What did you set your sight on to kind of propel you?
Guest:Um, establishing an innocence for the character to be destroyed over the course of the three films.
Guest:You know, the character starts off, um, living a very comfortable, um, uh, pleasant existence free from fear and harm and, uh, in the shire as a hobbit.
Guest:Uh, and that was an easy thing to understand.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Uh, and connect.
Guest:And then over the course of the journey, as he accepts this responsibility to take this ring, he is degraded by the ring and it starts to tear away at him internally.
Guest:So it's a kind of fall from grace.
Guest:It's a character that experiences a sort of soul degradation over the course of the three films, which is a lot...
Guest:to work with as an actor.
Guest:And you don't often get the opportunity to take a character from point A to point B over the course of three films.
Guest:So there's a lot to work with.
Guest:And that was wonderful, having that kind of time to work on a character's arc.
Marc:And how intimate was the relationship with Peter Jackson from scene to scene in terms of like, is he an actor's director?
Marc:I mean, because he had a lot to think about.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Guest:It was like working on the world's largest independent film in a way, because it felt like the level of connectivity that you experience on a small film was exactly what we felt, but just on a larger scale.
Guest:So it felt like a big family and Peter very much at the forefront of that and setting the tone for that.
Guest:And he's a very visual director.
Guest:He has the film in his head and has a lot of different ways to which he articulates that.
Guest:Sometimes he would literally, before we would shoot a scene, and we were just in the blocking stage of figuring out where characters were going to be.
Guest:You would see him like working out each of the characters and he would kind of be sort of Miming or speaking the dialogue as the character just as he's trying to figure it out So he would sometimes kind of give you a sense of what the performance that he wanted and what what also he was seeing which was really helpful Fran his wife is also she did some some second unit directing on the film and
Guest:And she comes from a very emotional place.
Guest:She's one of the writers, and she also wrote Heavenly Creatures.
Marc:Yeah, it's a great movie.
Guest:Which is wonderful.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So she sometimes, her articulation of emotion is really strong in ways that Peter, not that he isn't, because I think what is very important to both of them, and certainly Peter as a director, is the spectacle is important, but it's...
Guest:It's the reality of what the characters are experiencing and the heart of the emotion of what the characters are experiencing.
Guest:So they're both very much concerned with that.
Guest:And she's very good at articulating that.
Guest:And I think Peter is too, but he's also got a larger palette that he's also thinking about at any given time.
Guest:It was an extraordinary experience.
Marc:Were you able to, like, when, you know, you're doing these scenes that are obviously, like you said, it's intimate, it's family, it almost feels like an independent film.
Marc:You know, I don't know how much of the spectacle of the movie was shot.
Guest:It was actually there?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:For Rings, it was.
Guest:So you got to feel the...
Guest:Yeah, we had a green screen unit, but that was used sparingly and it was normally only used because of the height difference between hobbits and men and elves.
Guest:It was normally used to put hobbits in sequences for which there were...
Guest:There were like shots that were made with Aragorn and Gimli and those characters.
Guest:And then we'd have to get the hobbits into those shots.
Guest:So they were kind of composite shots.
Guest:So we would go into the green screen to shoot that.
Guest:But everything was either sets or locations.
Guest:And we were on location all the time.
Guest:So what you see in that film is largely there physically.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Outside of, you know, Cave Troll or She Loved the Spider.
Guest:But it was all real.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So you could feel the magnitude of the landscape.
Guest:Oh man, we were flying at the tops of mountains to shoot scenes.
Guest:It was totally extraordinary.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Out in the elements, seeing parts of New Zealand that some New Zealanders hadn't seen.
Guest:It really was...
Guest:That was also a journey within the journey was actually kind of going to those places.
Marc:So the sort of spectacle and glorious menace of the environment was like weighing down on you as a person, as Elijah would.
Guest:Yeah, on all of us.
Guest:And like the difficulties of shooting in some of those environments were very real.
Guest:Therefore, it kind of evoked what the characters were going through.
Guest:Real fear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes.
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:And just like harsh environments sometimes.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, like challenging.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can't step too many steps to the right because you might fall off the thing.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes there was no faking it, which was great.
Guest:You have so much inspiration to pull from in those scenarios.
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:And how are you treated by the fantasy community?
Guest:The fantasy community obviously have a deep affinity and love for Lord of the Rings that predated our films.
Guest:But, you know, being a part of those films that have kind of gotten into the pop culture realm, they're far more than films now.
Guest:You know, they love us on a deep level.
Guest:And they love the characters.
Guest:characters good it's a wild environment to be in i i've never experienced that before i'd worked on films um that were all original films that didn't have a fan base and to work on something that has such intense fandom associated with it is really interesting and and you know it's like being a part of i i suppose it must be like being a part of something like star wars or star trek right there's a there's a a depth of
Marc:to the it's not just sort of an obsession or passing kind of teenage crush no I mean these people dress up as the characters and there's an intellectual depth to it that too to their understanding of it to what you guys did to it and a lot of them have to separate the two yes you know intellectually yes and find the merits in both right and the differences between the writing and the film yeah yeah absolutely and that's a dialogue that happens and these are bright people they are so you have to and protective right
Marc:Of what they're passionate about.
Guest:Have you ever been confronted by someone who disagrees with your interpretation of Frodo?
Guest:Not with the character, thankfully.
Guest:But certainly I've spoken to fans who wish that certain characters would have been included.
Guest:There's a very famous character in the context of the book called Tom Bombadil.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And fans were very upset that Tom Bombadil was not in the film.
Guest:So there's things like that.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:They'll never forgive.
Guest:Choices that... It's not on you.
Guest:Not on me.
Yeah.
Guest:No, but they'll certainly tell you because they can't tell Peter or whatever.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:You let Peter know.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That there's a bunch of it.
Guest:We love the movie, but.
Guest:You're never going to make them happy.
Guest:No, but that's also hard.
Guest:I think adaptations are difficult.
Guest:Because when you read a book, you have your own personal relationship to what you've read.
Guest:You have your own ideas in your own head as to what the world looks like, what the characters look like.
Guest:So it's so interpretive and so personal, that experience.
Guest:So it's very hard to make something that pleases everyone.
Guest:Because your interpretation of it might be different than mine.
Guest:So the fact that we've made an adaptation that everyone seems to agree for the most part is close to what they imagined is kind of extraordinary.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Hard to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:So a couple other things.
Marc:Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind is another masterpiece.
Marc:I love that film too.
Marc:It's like baffling how unique it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's also, it's so emotional and it's interesting.
Guest:Men's reactions to that film are different than women's.
Marc:How so?
Guest:Because it's from the male perspective.
Guest:We don't often see, it didn't really occur to me until after people had seen the movie and kind of really connected with it.
Guest:But the protagonist of the film is a guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:who has made a mistake in trying to erase this woman from his life and is panicking to hold on to it.
Guest:And it's about the end of a relationship from a man's perspective.
Guest:And for that kind of film, we typically only see it as it pertains to romantic comedies.
Guest:Specifically, we often only see the female perspective.
Guest:And, you know, friends of mine who don't really cry in movies were devastated by the film.
Marc:Because Jim Carrey's, you know, relatability as a heartbroken.
Guest:Everyman.
Marc:Lost.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You know, searcher.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or just a guy that was on the verge of giving up and then meets this woman that changes everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he can't handle the love.
Guest:And I love the end of the film, too, because there's this sort of, it's on a precarious note that it ends on.
Guest:This idea of, like, we know where it could potentially go.
Guest:We've experienced it.
Guest:I've experienced it.
Guest:But let's try anyway, regardless of whether we fuck it up again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which I think is sort of beautiful.
Guest:It doesn't end on this great...
Guest:Well, it's a, it's, it's literally, right.
Marc:It's a play on the clean slate thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Literally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like, you know, that, that what you, structurally, it still is a romantic comedy.
Guest:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In a lot of ways.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So what you get at the end is that the love is bigger than, than any of the, you know, the, the character problems.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And the mistakes made along the way.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And that's what happens at the end.
Marc:I mean, yeah, it's precarious, but there's something there and you have to identify that as love after all that.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:So when you work with Gondry and from... And Charlie Kaufman.
Guest:I remember I was driving on the 405 and I got a call from my agent and she said, we have a script here from Charlie Kaufman that Michelle Gondry is going to direct.
Guest:And I was like, what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Almost pulled off the road.
Guest:I'm such a huge fan of Gondry's work.
Guest:And at that point, he'd only directed one film, Human Nature, that Kaufman also wrote.
Guest:But I'd loved all of his music videos.
Guest:He has such a singular vision and is so identifiable within his work.
Guest:And it's incredible and very...
Guest:strange and dreamlike and beautiful and Kaufman is you know one of the greatest writers of our thing yeah yeah constantly in a world in which it's very difficult to find someone who has a has a unique vision or is telling stories that have been told before he said he seems to come up with these original ideas yeah all of the time or taking something that we know and then spinning it in such a way that we're not familiar with it and
Guest:So I hadn't even read the script yet, and I was like, I'll do whatever.
Guest:I will be craft service on the film.
Guest:And I think that's a real driving force to me as an actor in general.
Guest:I just want to work with people that are doing something interesting.
Guest:And if I can be a small part sometimes within the context of that vision...
Guest:Um, just to be a part of it is exciting.
Guest:So I ended up meeting Gondry in New York and, and, uh, got, got to be a part of it.
Guest:And it was a joy.
Guest:He's such an interesting director and so unique.
Marc:And, and that was sort of a different character for you in terms of like, you know, that guy was a bit morally bankrupt and, and, but I think he's creepy with good intentions.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:He's creepy with good intentions.
Guest:He's an opportunist.
Guest:He sees within the context of this sort of work that they're doing when they're erasing people's memories, he becomes privy to certain memories and realizes, well, shit, I could actually just learn from all this guy's memories and just kind of become him and she'll have no idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was fun to play.
Guest:And getting a chance to work with Kate was extraordinary.
Guest:I, you know, fell in love with her the first time I saw her in Heavenly Creatures.
Guest:And I've loved her work since.
Guest:And so you get to work with her was amazing.
Guest:And Jim Carrey was fascinating to work with, you know.
Guest:It was palpable that he was taking a risk and doing something he'd never done before.
Guest:I would say even more so then, because I remember when the Truman Show came out, everyone was saying, well, this is great.
Guest:This comedic actor we know is doing this one thing is coming out in a dramatic role, which was not entirely true.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That role was comedic.
Marc:Well, the device of the movie was comedic.
Marc:Correct.
Guest:But this felt like a truly dramatic performance in so many ways.
Guest:And I didn't see the familiar elements of Jim Carrey that we came to know.
Marc:Right.
Guest:He worked really hard at that.
Marc:No, he didn't go over the top.
Guest:No, he was great.
Guest:And he was kind of always in a sort of slightly depressed state.
Guest:He would listen to music that would kind of, you know, would upset him.
Guest:Poor guy.
Guest:I think that was hard for him.
Guest:It's hard to put yourself in that emotional place.
Marc:Do you need to do those?
Marc:Do you need to do things that will keep you in character?
Marc:I mean, every actor is different.
Marc:I mean, do you feed yourself like that?
Marc:Or are you able to just sort of like lock in, you know, mentally?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think for certain emotional scenarios, I don't know that I listen to music for that, although I think that would be helpful.
Guest:I just kind of try and get to a quiet place where I'm not being distracted by other things.
Guest:If I'm supposed to have an emotionally deep moment or scene, I'll just try and be quiet and stay away from people and stay away from distractions more than anything.
Marc:The interesting thing about that movie, outside of, like, you know, Dreamlike is good, and Gondry sort of, like, was able to... Like, it seemed like a lot of handheld business, you know, going on, which made it, you know, almost, you know, frighteningly intimate.
Marc:But, you know, the one thing that I struggled with initially was, like, you know, would this... If this was really a business, you know, would it look like that?
Marc:And then if you really think it through, it's like, yeah...
Marc:It would kind of look like that.
Marc:Just this weird office that almost seems kind of like shoddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he'd hire kids.
Marc:Once the machine was created, it's like, will you guys do this?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The machine takes care of the work.
Guest:Right.
Marc:They're just logging it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That it would completely play out like that eventually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love his aesthetic, too, because so much of it feels homegrown.
Guest:The technology that he uses, it feels handmade.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:And I think that also helps you in the context of a story like this that is so abstract.
Guest:It helps you to connect to it because it doesn't feel glossy or it's not laden with special effects.
Guest:It feels kind of relatable.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, the special effects are relatable because they're in that zone between like almost waking consciousness and reality.
Marc:But when you're literally seeing things fall away in a memory and it's happening, it's playing itself out in the world, the effect of it was fucking spectacular.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I don't know.
Marc:Was that one of those movies that you watched after you were in it and said like, holy shit?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Like I had no idea.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Like just entire chunks of buildings and things just, you know,
Marc:you know, falling into themselves.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To see all that actually come to life.
Guest:There was actually a day on set.
Guest:We, um, we did a couple of, he loves shots that are, are made in one shot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A one-er.
Guest:Um, there's a scene in the film that's in his dream.
Guest:It's in, it's in one of his, Jim's memories where he's leaving a house.
Guest:He walks down the hallway of the doctor's office, walks into the doctor's office, sees himself talking to the doctor.
Guest:And then the camera spins around.
Guest:He sees, we see him looking at himself and,
Guest:And then you see me off to the corner picking up some files.
Guest:That was all done in one shot.
Guest:And that was an amazing moment.
Guest:It was about halfway through the shooting.
Guest:And it was one of those incredible things where, unlike some of the special effects that were added later of things falling apart, we could actually see this in camera, this thing work.
Guest:yeah and i think we did 15 takes and and the whole the whole crew went out for drinks that night it was this great sense of celebration because we were able to we all worked really hard at doing something that actually just physically happened there right it was really amazing that's a that's a beautiful uh collaboration story yeah so what is this thing i saw something on uh on television did you portray
Marc:a comic in something?
Marc:Am I supposed to?
Guest:I did in a short film called Set Up Punch that my friend David Schlossel directed and wrote.
Guest:It played at Tribeca.
Guest:Basically, the story of the short was an experience that he'd had as a stand-up.
Guest:He's done stand-up.
Guest:He's now primarily a writer-director.
Guest:But he had done this thing that was very Andy Kaufman-esque.
Guest:I don't want to ruin the short for people who haven't seen it, but he kind of plays a bit of a ruse on stage.
Guest:And he told me this story of his own personal experience as a friend years ago, and it always fascinated me.
Guest:And then he called me up and said, well, I've written it as a short film.
Guest:Would you want to play the comedian?
Guest:And I kind of jumped at the chance to do it because I love the story and the idea of playing a comedian was exciting, but I'd never done comedy before, certainly never done stand-up.
Guest:So the reality of that started to make itself very known to me when I decided we were going to do it because I thought, well, I probably should have an experience doing it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I put it off and I put it off and I put it off.
Guest:So every time we'd talk about it... Why?
Guest:Because I was petrified.
Guest:Petrified.
Guest:I was so scared.
Guest:I actually don't know that... Well, I'll get to that.
Guest:So I kept putting it off and every conversation we'd have, I'd say, well, we should definitely talk about that.
Guest:I could just avoid it.
Guest:And then finally, we kind of locked in a date to shoot it.
Guest:So there now is a bit of a time crunch.
Guest:And I really, at that point, realized that I had to have this experience in order to more accurately play someone confidently as a stand-up comedian.
Guest:So my friend David set up a five-minute thing at the improv.
Marc:Unannounced.
Guest:unannounced it was on a wednesday i think and so that day i went to his house yeah and i think in his mind he he assumed i think that i would just use the material the jokes that he'd written within the context of the script and so i get to his house and i'm like great um i don't want to do any of those jokes yeah and my reason for that was i
Guest:I think I was afraid that I would be too nervous to remember his jokes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Whereas if I wrote something that came for me, it's internal so I could fall back on my own experiences.
Guest:You could be you.
Guest:I could be me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not have to worry about remembering something.
Guest:Sure, sure, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So over the course of three hours... Yeah.
Guest:We wrote a five-minute set together, largely kind of inspired by certain ideas that I had and then certain ideas that he had, and we kind of cobbled this thing together.
Guest:And I went to the improv.
Guest:Scariest thing in the world.
Guest:Waiting to go on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I was at the table, and there were two or three comedians before me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Then there was one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was pulled and stood up next to the stage, like, as soon as this guy's done, you're up.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And it felt like I was about to jump out of a plane.
Guest:You know, there's no turning back.
Guest:There's no way to put pause on this.
Guest:There's no way to stop it.
Guest:There's no cut.
Guest:It's only commitment.
Guest:And guy leaves the stage.
Guest:I get introduced and I stand there and I say the first thing in my set and it gets a laugh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And from there on out, I was fine.
Yeah.
Guest:And thankfully, because sometimes the body's impulse is when you're scared to rush through something.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because then it'll be over faster.
Guest:And somehow I was able to settle.
Guest:I don't know how.
Guest:And I just took my time.
Guest:And all the things that I wanted to get a laugh got a laugh.
Guest:So I didn't bomb the first time, which was kind of miraculous.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:It was an incredible experience.
Guest:And I have...
Guest:So much more respect for stand-up comedians as a result of having had that experience.
Guest:Because, you know, I've hosted SNL, I've done some stuff on stage, which is comparable on a certain level, but that's all scripted.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When it's just you and your voice and these people are in that room looking at you to make them laugh, that's an intense place to be.
Guest:Don't want to overthink it.
Guest:I mean, that's what it is.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's hard.
Guest:That's the scariest thing I've ever done.
Guest:But the great thing about it.
Marc:It's scarier than being helicoptered into the top of a mountain in New Zealand.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:It's scarier than that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like all great fears that you face in life, it made me realize I was capable of something I never would have thought I was capable of.
Guest:And that's an incredible thing.
Guest:Fear is an important thing in life.
Guest:It's a great motivator, but it's also that thing where it either pushes you or it stifles you.
Guest:And I always try my best to allow it to push me because otherwise you can't grow.
Guest:What you've been doing stand-up for years.
Guest:But I can also imagine getting to a place where it's totally comfortable.
Marc:Well, that happens and the challenges become different.
Marc:It's sort of like anything else.
Marc:I think with acting where you want to be challenged and you want to be part of a good project and you want to do something you haven't done before.
Marc:Once you learn the craft of comedy and you do have a certain comfort in it and you don't think twice about entering a stage and being on stage and being alone up there, sometimes you can get tired of yourself just like any other thing.
Marc:And you've got to, what's the next bit?
Guest:So it can stagnate too.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, you know, once you, you know, there are some guys that walk into an act and, you know, and you have to constantly generate material and you have to, like, I enjoy cornering myself up there and making it so, you know, I have no choice but to move through something.
Guest:So you take your, you try and create a scenario where you're not totally within your comfort zone.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, you know, I never completely am, you know, because you get tired of hearing like if I have a distance and I imagine it happens in an act or two on take 10.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, how do you how do you make that fresh again?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, how do you get into the present with something?
Marc:How do you make it different enough or or or as if it's not happened before nine times?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Those challenges exist, you know, when you get comfortable on stage, I'm sure.
Marc:Yeah, I do it a lot, but there's part of me that when you do something like it, when I acted on my television show, you don't- Yeah, what was that experience like?
Marc:Well, you don't know.
Marc:With comedy, and when you're a compulsive person like me, and you're sort of- Are you writing the show, too?
Marc:Yeah, it was part of the writing.
Guest:I saw the bit, which I think you originated on your podcast, the bit about the coffee, the barista that refused, which drives me fucking insane.
Marc:It's a real thing.
Guest:It is a very real thing.
Guest:And it's sort of like these high standard coffee places, which are spotting up all over the place.
Guest:And they're great.
Guest:They can make great coffee.
Guest:This idea of refusing the customer ice is nuts to me.
Marc:On the basis of integrity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's going to ruin.
Guest:It's going to bruise the coffee.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:I make four shots of espresso over ice every morning at my house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fuck you guys.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I saw that bit in one of the long promos for the show and it resonated with me.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:It was awesome.
Marc:Well, as entering the acting world is that when you don't have that immediate sort of relationship with an audience and your relationship is intimate and it's with the scene and with the actor...
Marc:You know, as a comic who's geared, you know, like you have to trust something in you that is not, you're not preparing yourself for that on stage.
Marc:You know, on stage, you're elevated.
Marc:You know, you're slightly, you know, this is your world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you have to sort of, you know, amp it up and do what you do on stage.
Marc:But, you know, when you, to bring it down to just sort of like, all right, we're just people.
Marc:I don't have to yell.
Marc:I don't have to deliver the lines like this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like I'm not.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just to get down to sort of like, can you just talk like people?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Normal intimacy of just everyday life.
Guest:Stage is very different.
Guest:And you're also feeding on an energy and there's also an immediacy.
Guest:Whereas with acting and camera, there's multiple takes and all of that as well that you get used to.
Marc:Well, it was very challenging and I'm excited about it.
Guest:That's so great.
Marc:I was so pleased to see that you're doing that.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:And it's very exciting to talk to you.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:And I'm glad you came by.
Marc:And let me know the progress of the pie restaurant.
Marc:I will.
Marc:And I will go to the pie restaurant.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:And go to Opie's.
Guest:I will.
Marc:I'll go to Opie's.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Guest:I've learned a lot about Texas barbecue today that I didn't know.
Marc:And I learned a lot about a lot of things.
Marc:It's a large list.
Marc:I don't know if we need to index them.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:Good guy, right?
Marc:Had a great time talking to him.
Marc:Very bright.
Marc:These kids seem well-adjusted, don't they?
Marc:Man, I wish I was... No, I don't.
Marc:I'm okay with who I am.
Marc:Do you hear that, America?
Marc:I'm okay with who I am.
Marc:Hey, do you want to watch shows like SNL, Parks and Rec, Community, New Girl, and Late Night with Jimmy Fallon whenever you want?
Marc:Don't miss a second of your favorite comedies with Hulu Plus.
Marc:For only $7.99 a month, you can stream as many TV shows and movies as you want on your computer, your smartphone, your tablet, all streaming in HD.
Marc:Right now, you can try Hulu Plus free for two weeks when you go to HuluPlus.com slash WTF.
Marc:That's a special offer for my listeners.
Marc:Make sure you use HuluPlus.com slash WTF so you can get the extended free trial and they know we sent you.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Tired.
Marc:Aggravated.
Marc:I'm alone.
Marc:I'm doing a lot of comedy.
Marc:I'm thinking.
Marc:See what I'm filling my brain with when it has space?
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:Just spinning plates, man.
Marc:Boomer lives!