Episode 435 - Jim Breuer

Episode 435 • Released October 23, 2013 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuckadelics what the fucknicks i've got tons of them all right what okay stop it

00:00:19Marc:Welcome to the show.

00:00:20Marc:I am Mark Maron.

00:00:21Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:22Marc:I appreciate you listening to me twice a week in your head.

00:00:26Marc:I'm happy to be here today.

00:00:30Marc:The comedian Jim Brewer joins me in the garage here at the Cat Ranch for a chat.

00:00:36Marc:Now, I want to say that I I judged Jim Brewer for years.

00:00:42Marc:I didn't really think that Jim Brewer and I were friends.

00:00:45Marc:And for years, I thought that not unlike many people, that my assessment of Jim Brewer was who he was.

00:00:54Marc:Which is rarely, if ever, meaning never true.

00:00:58Marc:A lot of times you prejudge.

00:01:02Marc:Prejudge.

00:01:03Marc:Box that guy in.

00:01:04Marc:Put him in a box.

00:01:04Marc:That's that guy.

00:01:06Marc:And it was a great conversation.

00:01:07Marc:And quite honestly...

00:01:09Marc:He he gave me a piece to the Lorne Michaels puzzle that fills in a very big, a very big part of the Lorne Michaels story behind my meeting with Lorne Michaels.

00:01:21Marc:And for those of you who who listen to this show, you know, it's a mild obsession.

00:01:26Marc:Lorne Michaels in general.

00:01:27Marc:I think that, you know, the talk that Jim and I had about SNL in general is probably one of the more candid ones.

00:01:34Marc:But I actually, I'm not going to spoil it.

00:01:39Marc:But we get a pretty big piece of the puzzle involving my relationship with Lorne Michaels through Jim Brewer.

00:01:45Marc:And I got to tell you right now, it took balls for him to tell me.

00:01:49Marc:Because he had a part in it.

00:01:51Marc:and it took uh yeah i i was uh impressed it took some courage i think or not maybe not for him but you know it it took balls to tell me and i'm glad he did uh so look forward to that pow look out just shit my pants just coffee.co up wait i forgot to tell you guys something holy fuck uh

00:02:15Marc:The mugs are back.

00:02:17Marc:My buddy Brian Jones up in Portland, professional potter, hand throws mugs that were previously only available as gifts to guests of WTF are now available at WTFPod.com in the merch section.

00:02:32Marc:We got a deal there for these beautiful...

00:02:35Marc:hand-thrown pieces of art, and they come with a, I guess it's a pound of WTF Blend Just Coffee.

00:02:43Marc:So it's a little early for Christmas, but we're going to try to keep these things in stock.

00:02:46Marc:Every time I get them, they go.

00:02:48Marc:I'm telling you before I even tweet it, because the last time I tweeted it, boom, gone.

00:02:53Marc:I think there's only like 40 or 50 there.

00:02:55Marc:Again, thank you for all the emails.

00:02:58Marc:And again, to those people that are identifying with me and relating to the condition of heartache, having made a decision that had to be made, but may not have been the decision that your heart necessarily wanted.

00:03:17Marc:Well, my heart goes out to you.

00:03:19Marc:Also, the other thing I'm doing, I'm listening to a ton of records all day long.

00:03:24Marc:So all those records that have been sent to me, I'm just telling you, I'm listening to them.

00:03:28Marc:I'm listening to the records, the vinyl you sent me.

00:03:31Marc:Now, I want to be in the name of transparency.

00:03:33Marc:I do want to say this.

00:03:36Marc:that if I don't like the record, I'm going to use it for barter.

00:03:41Marc:And I just want you to know that.

00:03:43Marc:I can't house all the records that come in.

00:03:47Marc:You can send me a record, or if you're a label, you can send me them and I'll listen to them.

00:03:52Marc:But if I do not like them or they do not resonate with me, I will trade them at the trading post for things, for furs, for my ears.

00:04:02Marc:I will add to the barter economy of used vinyl.

00:04:07Marc:I just want to be transparent about that.

00:04:08Marc:It's nothing personal, but what do you want me to do?

00:04:10Marc:What do you think I'm going to do?

00:04:11Marc:Seriously, what do you think I'm going to do?

00:04:14Marc:Right now, let's enjoy my conversation with Jim Brewer.

00:04:25Marc:You're a radio guy.

00:04:26Marc:I'm done with it.

00:04:28Marc:Are you?

00:04:29Marc:Yeah.

00:04:31Marc:That was it?

00:04:32Marc:It's over.

00:04:33Marc:Radio's over.

00:04:34Marc:You're over in radio.

00:04:35Guest:I'm fucking done with it.

00:04:37Guest:I'm tired.

00:04:37Marc:Yeah?

00:04:38Guest:Yeah.

00:04:39Guest:Eight years.

00:04:40Guest:Eight, ten years.

00:04:40Guest:I'm fucking done.

00:04:41Marc:But I didn't realize that you started with ONA.

00:04:44Guest:Well, ONA helped me realize that I can do really well on radio.

00:04:53Guest:Right.

00:04:53Guest:Like, I don't have to be... And I can tell stories and I can take my time.

00:05:00Guest:They don't have to be hilarious.

00:05:01Guest:They can just be great entertaining stories.

00:05:04Guest:And they helped me find myself...

00:05:07Guest:with a whole different pattern.

00:05:08Marc:Isn't that great?

00:05:09Marc:Yes.

00:05:09Marc:I mean, I had to do Air America before I realized that.

00:05:12Marc:It's a pretty amazing thing.

00:05:13Guest:You were, I used to listen to you all the time on Air America.

00:05:17Guest:Really?

00:05:18Guest:All, every day I would tune you in.

00:05:20Guest:Yeah.

00:05:21Guest:And I was really annoyed when they got rid of you.

00:05:23Guest:I really annoyed the shit out of me.

00:05:25Guest:And Janine.

00:05:27Guest:I used to listen to it all the time.

00:05:30Marc:None of us knew what we were doing, but I did learn this thing.

00:05:33Marc:I learned how to do this thing.

00:05:35Marc:It's a pretty amazing thing when you learn how to do it.

00:05:37Marc:Yeah, you always had a specific...

00:05:41Guest:I was manic, dude.

00:05:42Guest:Well, you were manic too, but you also, the comedy clubs probably, that's all we had to try to put out while we were trying to put out where it might not have been the place where you should have been or where I maybe should have been or whatever, but that's all you have.

00:05:59Marc:It's very specific.

00:05:59Marc:Yeah.

00:06:00Marc:It's very specific.

00:06:01Guest:Yeah.

00:06:01Marc:You got to do the thing.

00:06:02Marc:You got to do the dance.

00:06:03Marc:Yeah, right.

00:06:03Marc:And, you know, it's weird when you do these mics.

00:06:06Marc:Actually, if you're too desperate trying to find a laugh, it's annoying to listen to.

00:06:10Marc:It's so aggravating.

00:06:12Guest:And I found myself every time a comic would come on.

00:06:15Guest:Yeah.

00:06:16Guest:Please don't do it.

00:06:17Guest:Please.

00:06:18Guest:Relax.

00:06:19Guest:Don't start going into your wife bit.

00:06:21Guest:Get to just relax.

00:06:22Guest:Don't go into the kid bit.

00:06:24Marc:Please.

00:06:24Marc:Yeah.

00:06:25Marc:Comics either go either way.

00:06:26Marc:They do their bits or they just sit there like lumps.

00:06:28Yeah.

00:06:28Marc:you ever gone out on the road and there's the radio guys are like yeah we weren't doing comics for a while right yeah because like someone came in at 6 30 and was like what why i don't know it doesn't talk yeah so uh what are you doing now man what are you doing out here specifically i never see you the last time you know it's weird the last time we talked

00:06:48Marc:I think we'd both been up all night, and it was at the Montreal airport.

00:06:53Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:06:53Marc:Remember?

00:06:54Guest:It took forever to get ... I started panicking because we were in the security line, and I got there two hours early, which I always do for a flight, and it wasn't going to happen.

00:07:04Guest:And thank God, the freaking US soccer team ...

00:07:10Guest:knew who i was and they're like come with us i didn't know all that happened yes that's the only reason i got through because i wasn't going to make the flight we weren't going to make the flight so we were just sitting there remember you're all tired and i don't remember i think maureen maureen taren was on it yeah we were on the line trying to get through but we just sat there you were tired and it was just the two of us and we're just talking man yes and you seem like you know you're like i'm fucking

00:07:35Guest:I'm getting old, you know.

00:07:39Guest:You're like, I've had it, man.

00:07:40Guest:Well, here, I got some, you know.

00:07:42Guest:What?

00:07:43Guest:Go ahead.

00:07:43Guest:Me and you.

00:07:44Guest:Yeah.

00:07:45Guest:Do we have a problem?

00:07:46Guest:No.

00:07:47Guest:No, none whatsoever.

00:07:48Guest:Ever?

00:07:49Guest:I feel like, yeah.

00:07:50Guest:No, no, no.

00:07:50Guest:Here's...

00:07:51Guest:In the past, I think your listeners might be into this.

00:07:56Guest:In the very beginning, a little bit of a problem.

00:07:59Guest:Now, people don't realize I'm crazy sensitive.

00:08:03Guest:Yeah.

00:08:03Guest:Crazy sensitive, like a little girl.

00:08:05Guest:Yeah.

00:08:06Guest:We all are, man.

00:08:07Guest:Yeah.

00:08:07Guest:And I think we're at the, it started, and this goes in stories, right?

00:08:13Guest:There goes in, there's a growing.

00:08:15Guest:Is this a series?

00:08:16Guest:Yeah, it's a growing pattern.

00:08:17Guest:Okay.

00:08:17Guest:So it started off with going to the comic strip, and this was the different Marc Maron days, different Jim Jones.

00:08:24Guest:I'm just trying to get to, everyone's like, you're going to be on television.

00:08:27Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:08:28Guest:I'm up there, loud, finger bit.

00:08:32Guest:And then one day, you crushed me.

00:08:35Guest:Yeah, I was going, and you said, you're going to woo him with your little animation wacky stuff?

00:08:42Guest:And I was...

00:08:44Guest:Oh, my God.

00:08:45Guest:I was infested.

00:08:46Guest:I told my wife, like, is what Marc Maron said to me?

00:08:48Guest:He totally insulted me.

00:08:51Guest:Why would he do that?

00:08:53Guest:Why would he?

00:08:54Guest:I'm a dick.

00:08:55Guest:I remember your wife used to go to the clubs with you all the time.

00:08:57Guest:She was real nice.

00:08:58Guest:Yeah, we're still married.

00:08:59Guest:Now, here, I fucked with you back.

00:09:02Guest:Yeah.

00:09:02Guest:You don't know it.

00:09:03Guest:Oh, good.

00:09:04Guest:I'm glad you got your revenge.

00:09:05Guest:I got my little revenge.

00:09:08Guest:Then you landed kind of the first Comedy Central show where you were the host.

00:09:13Guest:Short of Tencent Fan Theater, yeah.

00:09:14Guest:Right.

00:09:16Guest:And at the time, too, you were all about, you know, I don't sell out.

00:09:20Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:09:21Guest:So I was like, oh, all right.

00:09:23Guest:I'm going to mess with his head a little bit.

00:09:25Guest:And I got my wife in on the game.

00:09:27Guest:And we said, Mark, you're amazing on that show.

00:09:31Guest:And you didn't know if I was serious or not serious.

00:09:34Guest:And then you finally broke down like, well, you know, I don't like everything.

00:09:37Guest:I have so many great jokes and they make me.

00:09:39Guest:I said, no, you look brilliant.

00:09:42Guest:Wow.

00:09:42Guest:But I knew it was just messing with you enough where I felt satisfied.

00:09:46Guest:I got you back.

00:09:47Guest:And then as time went on, as time went on, now this was interesting too.

00:09:53Guest:You crossed paths.

00:09:55Guest:You were up for SNL as the news guy.

00:10:00Guest:Right.

00:10:01Guest:And Lauren sat me down.

00:10:03Yeah.

00:10:03Guest:And Lauren sat me down, and I swear to God, here's how it went.

00:10:08Guest:He goes, Jim, we're thinking about using Marc Maron as the update guy.

00:10:17Guest:Do you have thoughts on him?

00:10:18Guest:That's exactly what I said.

00:10:20Guest:I went, okay.

00:10:24Guest:I think he'll be the best news guy you've ever had in your life.

00:10:29Guest:I really said that.

00:10:30Guest:Yeah.

00:10:30Guest:I said, but you need to know...

00:10:33Guest:A lot of people have problems with him.

00:10:36Guest:I go, he pisses people off.

00:10:39Guest:But that has nothing to do with me.

00:10:42Guest:And I say, if he's for the news guy, I think you got a home run.

00:10:47Guest:Yeah.

00:10:47Guest:I go, am I best friends with him?

00:10:50Guest:No.

00:10:53Guest:Do I love the guy?

00:10:54Guest:No.

00:10:55Guest:However...

00:10:56Guest:The guy would be a monster news anchor.

00:10:59Guest:Oh, my God.

00:11:00Guest:I really feel that way, Lauren.

00:11:01Guest:And he's like, no, that's pretty much the feedback I get from everyone.

00:11:06Guest:I said, did you meet with him already?

00:11:08Guest:Now, I don't know if he said this or you said this.

00:11:12Guest:Something about-

00:11:13Guest:I feel like he told me this.

00:11:17Guest:He said to me, he said he met with you and I said, well, how'd it go?

00:11:23Guest:And he said, well, he said everyone enjoys a monkey or something until they throw the feces at you.

00:11:31Guest:Or he said that.

00:11:32Marc:No, I said that to him.

00:11:33Marc:He said, comedians are like monkeys.

00:11:35Marc:Yes.

00:11:36Marc:The monkeys make people laugh.

00:11:37Marc:And I said, unless they're throwing their shit at you.

00:11:41Marc:Which, when he said- That stuck with him?

00:11:44Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:11:45Guest:Absolutely.

00:11:46Guest:Come on, you fucking with me now?

00:11:47Guest:No, I swear to God I'm not.

00:11:48Guest:I swear to God.

00:11:49Guest:That made me-

00:11:52Guest:really like you come on i swear to god and and then i you know i'm obsessed with that meeting you know i mean i talk about it all the fucking time i'm obsessed with that meeting with lauren he sat me down and he he asked me about you and he asked me about tracy morgan yeah because we were there the same day and tr i said tracy is the most raw

00:12:16Guest:Funniest human beings I've ever met in my life offstage, Lauren.

00:12:20Guest:I don't think I've ever laughed so hard.

00:12:22Guest:Just- Offstage.

00:12:23Guest:I said, I just listened to him rant and I just find myself, I feel like I'm looking at a Richard Pryor, but it's raw.

00:12:31Guest:Yeah.

00:12:31Guest:Onstage is a different beast.

00:12:33Guest:Right.

00:12:34Guest:Offstage, I've never seen anything more fascinating in my life.

00:12:37Guest:And he goes, no, Mark.

00:12:39Guest:What about Marc Maron for the update?

00:12:42Marc:And I really... So he was really thinking about it.

00:12:44Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:12:46Marc:Because I thought, in retrospect, that he might have been trying to muscle Norm into something or whatever.

00:12:50Marc:Because I didn't get it, obviously.

00:12:52Marc:They were done with Norm, yeah.

00:12:54Marc:They were done.

00:12:54Guest:They were done.

00:12:55Guest:Yeah.

00:12:56Guest:He didn't want to be there.

00:12:58Guest:Norm and Spade didn't want to be there.

00:13:00Guest:They wanted them because we were all new.

00:13:01Guest:Right.

00:13:02Guest:So they needed a little bit of star power.

00:13:04Guest:How many years were you there?

00:13:05Marc:Three.

00:13:06Marc:Yeah, and what happened ultimately with the arc of your time there?

00:13:09Guest:I mean... Here's... What happened was... My two big supporters, which were Fred Wolfe.

00:13:18Guest:Yeah.

00:13:19Guest:This comedian, Fred Wolfe, and this guy, Steve Korn.

00:13:21Guest:I remember Fred Wolfe.

00:13:22Guest:He was there for a million years, though, right?

00:13:24Guest:He was Spade's guy, right?

00:13:25Marc:Yes.

00:13:25Marc:He was Spade's guy.

00:13:26Guest:Yeah.

00:13:27Guest:And there was Tim Hurley, who was... Sandler?

00:13:31Guest:Sandler's guy.

00:13:32Guest:Yeah.

00:13:32Guest:And...

00:13:33Guest:They were big brewer supporters.

00:13:36Guest:So I felt great.

00:13:37Marc:Yeah.

00:13:38Guest:But I'll never forget this day.

00:13:40Guest:We were about a year and a half in, maybe the end of the second season.

00:13:45Guest:Each one of them came to me and said, we need to tell you, we're out of here.

00:13:51Guest:We can't take it anymore.

00:13:53Guest:And you're in trouble, Jimmy B. That was Freddie.

00:13:56Guest:Freddie said, you're in trouble, Jimmy B. The new regime don't like you.

00:13:59Guest:Huh.

00:13:59Guest:The new regime of writers.

00:14:02Guest:Yeah, I didn't know what that meant.

00:14:03Guest:Yeah.

00:14:05Guest:And then I saw what it meant as time went on, and I became a pothead.

00:14:10Guest:I became angry.

00:14:11Guest:I almost got in a fight.

00:14:13Marc:They push you out?

00:14:14Marc:Is that what happens there?

00:14:15Marc:They write you out or what?

00:14:17Guest:I would get this.

00:14:18Guest:I would get this.

00:14:19Guest:I'd be writing a sketch.

00:14:22Guest:Yeah.

00:14:24Guest:It's 3.30 in the morning.

00:14:26Guest:Yeah.

00:14:26Guest:And I'm trying to pull something off with Tracy.

00:14:29Guest:Yeah.

00:14:30Guest:The two of us are useless except for premises and bouncing off of one another for four hours.

00:14:36Guest:And then we go to type and it's going nowhere.

00:14:38Guest:I'm not a writer.

00:14:38Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:39Guest:So we try to lure anyone in and then we'd finally start writing and then...

00:14:44Guest:The head writer would come in like, just want you to know our computers are in sync with everyone.

00:14:51Guest:We can see what you're writing, and we kind of have the same exact sketch.

00:14:55Guest:But if you want to continue with it, it's cool.

00:14:58Guest:What guy was that?

00:14:59Marc:mckay oh adam yeah mckay mckay hated me why i don't know man i really don't know i really i loved him i loved him you're a weird guy in the sense that i think that even me and i you know i talked to a buddy of mine who you know i told him i was going to interview you is that you make assumptions about you for some reason

00:15:20Marc:Yes.

00:15:21Marc:You have a look that could either be psychopathic or you don't look at you and go, there's a trustworthy guy.

00:15:29Marc:He's going to be a nice fella, that guy.

00:15:32Marc:Yes.

00:15:33Marc:It's funny that you're sensitive because my assumptions were always like, he's hiding some monster.

00:15:39Marc:There's a monster in there.

00:15:41Marc:Well, there is also... And by the way, I'm not going to blame you for ruining my shot at SNL.

00:15:48Marc:The best part of that story and the only thing that is not filling me with resentment right now is like, oh, when you said, Lauren said, yeah, that's what everybody says.

00:15:56Marc:I've heard that from a lot of people.

00:15:57Guest:Yes.

00:15:57Guest:Now, if I remember, Marcy Klein was in on that meeting and she... In your meeting.

00:16:08Guest:Yeah, I'm going to say she brought me in.

00:16:12Guest:She was excited and Lauren just wasn't sure.

00:16:17Guest:And I don't know why he wasn't sure.

00:16:18Guest:But to this day, I thought I truly think you would have been hands down one of the best that ever got a shot to do that.

00:16:27Marc:Yeah, and believe me, it sort of breaks my heart sometimes, but obviously you can't look at the past.

00:16:31Marc:But as this story evolves, because I talk about that meeting a lot with people who've been on SNL, and the piece of the puzzle that you gave me is that I was closer than I thought I was.

00:16:42Guest:Oh, man, you were close.

00:16:43Guest:Yeah.

00:16:44Guest:You were close, and I know you probably don't want to hear that.

00:16:45Marc:No, no, I do, because I was starting to believe that he was just fucking with me, that he made me jump through a bunch of hoops, and I don't know why he would do that.

00:16:54Marc:He does do...

00:16:55Marc:I thought he wanted to teach me a lesson about alternative comedy.

00:16:58Marc:Like, you know, you're not doing anything downtown.

00:17:01Marc:This is the real world and you're not living in it.

00:17:03Guest:He could have been.

00:17:04Guest:Yeah.

00:17:04Guest:He could have been.

00:17:05Guest:The more I learned about him, he was the most brilliant director.

00:17:10Guest:giving amazing advice.

00:17:13Guest:It was almost like when the mafia would sit you down.

00:17:16Guest:He's like a Buddha.

00:17:17Guest:He really is.

00:17:18Guest:And you don't get it because we're comics and we think he's, I thought he's fucking with my head and I don't understand what, is he doing some psychological thing here?

00:17:26Guest:Yeah.

00:17:26Guest:He would just, he'd say things like this, like, Jim, this year, try to be a straight guy.

00:17:33Guest:What do you mean?

00:17:36Guest:He's like, you're very powerful and you're subtle.

00:17:40Guest:Okay.

00:17:43Guest:Like, all right.

00:17:45Guest:How do you even process that?

00:17:47Guest:I'm like, is he saying I'm funny?

00:17:48Guest:Am I not funny?

00:17:50Guest:What am I doing?

00:17:51Guest:Should I not write?

00:17:52Guest:Should I just be in... Oh, my God.

00:17:54Guest:Am I getting fired?

00:17:55Guest:I think you were saying, turn it down, Jim.

00:17:57Guest:I think you were saying...

00:17:58Guest:Take it down a notch.

00:18:00Guest:You don't have to be so big.

00:18:01Guest:Yeah.

00:18:02Guest:And that, you know, as time went on, I went, God, I wish I was mature enough to understand all those notes.

00:18:09Marc:Oh, dude, it's weird.

00:18:12Marc:You know, you could be 20 years later and you wake up and you're like, oh, I get it.

00:18:15Marc:I have a lot of those.

00:18:17Marc:Yeah.

00:18:17Marc:I have a lot of those.

00:18:18Guest:It's crazy, man.

00:18:19Guest:Sitting with movie executives.

00:18:22Guest:Sitting with the head of Miramax.

00:18:25Guest:Yeah.

00:18:25Guest:And he's going, Jimmy, I'm putting Gwyneth Paltrow on us.

00:18:30Guest:I'm going to surround you with good people.

00:18:32Guest:Why would I want to make you look bad?

00:18:34Guest:And I'm going, well, my manager says I'm really stupid to play an animal.

00:18:43Guest:And here it is.

00:18:46Guest:Here's the mafia going, listen.

00:18:49Guest:You go sell these cigarettes.

00:18:50Guest:It's just the beginning.

00:18:51Guest:I want to see how you're doing it.

00:18:52Guest:And then we'll have you.

00:18:54Guest:Right.

00:18:54Guest:And I've got the biggest agent in the world and the manager.

00:18:58Guest:And they both go, you know, I don't know.

00:18:59Guest:And I've got the head of Miramax going, take this job.

00:19:04Guest:What was that job?

00:19:06Guest:It was a French movie he bought.

00:19:09Guest:Yeah.

00:19:10Guest:He bought this French movie.

00:19:13Yeah.

00:19:13Guest:I don't remember the name of the movie.

00:19:14Guest:They were Americanizing it.

00:19:15Guest:And basically, I was a human that turned into a dog.

00:19:20Guest:Yeah, you didn't do it?

00:19:21Guest:And he made me audition at the director's house.

00:19:25Marc:It seems like you're the only guy that could do that.

00:19:27Marc:Who was the director?

00:19:28Marc:Some French guy.

00:19:29Marc:Yeah, not the guy who did Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and that.

00:19:35Marc:What's his name?

00:19:35Marc:Could be.

00:19:36Marc:Oh, fuck.

00:19:37Marc:I forget that guy.

00:19:37Guest:I don't even know.

00:19:38Guest:Did they make the movie?

00:19:39No.

00:19:40Guest:And even that, I don't know.

00:19:41Guest:Yeah.

00:19:42Marc:Okay, so you go to the director's house.

00:19:44Guest:The director said, this guy's amazing.

00:19:46Guest:I really thought he was a dog and he wasn't... Whatever.

00:19:50Guest:Yeah.

00:19:50Guest:So, but there was that petrified... You know, I have Barry Katz going, I don't know.

00:19:55Guest:I can read the headlines saying goat man is a dog now.

00:20:01Guest:And I had Nick Stevens who had Jim Carrey.

00:20:04Guest:So, I thought whatever he said made sense.

00:20:05Guest:Hey, you know what?

00:20:06Guest:He wants to do a dog movie.

00:20:07Guest:Let him do it for four minutes.

00:20:08Guest:He has other movies lined up.

00:20:09Guest:Yeah.

00:20:09Guest:And my heart and my instinct said, this is Weinstein telling me he's going to surround me with the best, and he wants me in this movie.

00:20:21Guest:I haven't seen a young talent like this.

00:20:22Guest:And you believe Barry.

00:20:23Guest:And I believe fucking Barry.

00:20:26Guest:Are you still with him?

00:20:26Guest:Oh, God, no, no, no.

00:20:28Guest:Oh, my God.

00:20:29Guest:Oh, God.

00:20:30Guest:It ended right after SNL.

00:20:32Guest:All those days.

00:20:33Guest:I feel like the more and more I get away from show business, the more comfortable I am and the more focused I am.

00:20:44Guest:I'm like, oh, I want to do this.

00:20:46Marc:So let me ask you a question just about the politics of SNL real quick.

00:20:50Marc:Yeah.

00:20:50Marc:So McKay is pushing you out.

00:20:52Marc:I mean, this shit happens.

00:20:54Marc:I mean, politics happens at all levels.

00:20:56Marc:What are you going to do?

00:20:56Marc:But there's obviously politics that operate there.

00:21:00Marc:And like, you know, when a head writer, you feel you're being pushed out, you know, do you go to Lauren and go, these guys.

00:21:07Guest:Here's when I knew I was done.

00:21:09Guest:There's a couple instances.

00:21:10Guest:One was...

00:21:12Guest:when you write a sketch when you have your sketch mark maron has a sketch mark is picked up for the week now you have to go in sections of writers right i'm in the section of writers that hate me i'm not with the good girl do you know why they hate you do you know i mean is it a personality problem do they think you're too big do they i think i'm too big i'm the farly dumb you know way i'm gonna

00:21:36Guest:break stuff.

00:21:37Marc:Right, right, right.

00:21:37Guest:And they're all Harvard and they're writers.

00:21:40Marc:And this is when Will came in or was he already there?

00:21:42Marc:Will was already there.

00:21:43Marc:Okay.

00:21:44Marc:And you guys got along or you didn't?

00:21:45Marc:Yeah, I loved Will.

00:21:46Marc:The whole cast got along really well.

00:21:48Marc:The writers were the ones doing the like, yeah.

00:21:50Guest:Even the writers.

00:21:51Guest:I'm going to say 98% of us were fine.

00:21:54Guest:It was these- It was a crew.

00:21:55Guest:These two or three.

00:21:56Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:21:57Guest:I could tell when they looked at me and it just always just shook their head.

00:22:00Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:00Guest:And that would mess with me.

00:22:01Guest:It was like the guy in the front row just, I'm killing with these guys.

00:22:05Guest:I'm not buying it.

00:22:06Guest:Who are you?

00:22:07Guest:Yeah.

00:22:08Guest:And this is when I knew the trouble started.

00:22:10Guest:Yeah.

00:22:12Guest:We're in the writer's room and they go over the sketch and they go, okay, let's start with Brewer's sketch here.

00:22:18Guest:How do we start punching stuff?

00:22:19Guest:And the one guy across from me is reading a newspaper.

00:22:23Guest:Yeah.

00:22:23Guest:And he's covering his face.

00:22:25Guest:Yeah.

00:22:25Guest:And he goes, why don't we start by scrapping this piece of shit?

00:22:29Guest:And I...

00:22:30Guest:I stood up.

00:22:32Guest:I smacked the paper out of his hand and I just laid out.

00:22:34Guest:I was like, I'll punch your fucking head.

00:22:37Guest:You don't want to be here.

00:22:38Guest:Get out of here.

00:22:39Guest:You think I want to be here?

00:22:41Guest:You see, if you don't want to say that, I go on.

00:22:44Guest:And now we're up in the office.

00:22:46Guest:What happened?

00:22:47Guest:With who?

00:22:48Guest:You're in the office with Lauren?

00:22:48Guest:With everyone but Lauren.

00:22:50Guest:Yeah.

00:22:50Guest:You know, before we bring this to Lauren,

00:22:51Guest:so it almost you almost hit him do you want to yeah do you want him fired i'm like no i don't want fired i just you know if he doesn't want to be part of it don't go in the room and yeah and say this sucks like just and why he's not even looking at me so it started that's when it started there and i just knew like oh this is gonna be and then what do you know who that guy was i

00:23:16Guest:It doesn't matter.

00:23:17Guest:I vaguely remember his name.

00:23:19Guest:But I remember my demise was, it was one of the last shows, and a long story short, Matthew Broderick's on the show, and he loves the sketches we're doing.

00:23:33Guest:He loves it.

00:23:33Guest:I play this real arrogant, loudmouthed asshole that just would cut him short.

00:23:39Guest:He had to return something, and I just would insult him, like get out of my face and say, you know what I'm going to do?

00:23:45Guest:So, the sketch kills, kills in the dress show, but Matthew Broderick starts busting laughing at the cat.

00:23:54Guest:He can't hold it in.

00:23:55Guest:Yeah.

00:23:55Guest:I break him.

00:23:56Guest:Yeah.

00:23:58Guest:And then there's another monologue, which crushes.

00:24:01Guest:It's me and Tracy, big performance piece.

00:24:03Guest:It's ridiculous.

00:24:04Guest:Yeah.

00:24:05Guest:Crushes.

00:24:06Yeah.

00:24:06Guest:In between, like, listen, Adam comes up.

00:24:09Guest:He's like, well, the problem is a crush, but he laughs, so we're done.

00:24:13Guest:Lauren doesn't like when people laugh.

00:24:15Guest:What are you talking about?

00:24:16Guest:That was in the dress.

00:24:17Guest:Yeah.

00:24:18Guest:He laughed because it's crushing.

00:24:21Guest:He's like, yeah, but he broke, so it's not going to work.

00:24:24Guest:Then it was, yeah, and the monologue, it crushed.

00:24:27Guest:But we're going to try my monologue for the air.

00:24:30Guest:But we always get this one for reruns.

00:24:32Guest:And it's never happened in the history.

00:24:34Guest:I'm like, what do you do?

00:24:35Guest:Just say, you don't want to do my stuff.

00:24:39Guest:Just what is your problem?

00:24:42Guest:Yeah.

00:24:42Guest:What is your problem?

00:24:43Guest:Yeah.

00:24:44Guest:And he's fighting with Lauren and he's fighting with Lauren.

00:24:47Guest:And finally, whatever, they air our stuff.

00:24:50Guest:But right before that sketch, I said, you know what?

00:24:53Guest:Let's go talk to Lauren.

00:24:54Guest:You say this, Lauren wants to change this?

00:24:56Guest:I want to go talk to Lauren.

00:24:58Guest:Oh, no, no, wait a minute.

00:24:59Guest:Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:25:00Guest:And then miraculously, the sketch just got on.

00:25:04Guest:But- Did they kill again?

00:25:06Guest:Killed.

00:25:09Guest:Killed.

00:25:10Guest:Yeah.

00:25:10Guest:So it ends, and that season ends, and about a month later, I get a call from an NBC executive.

00:25:18Guest:Brewer, what happened?

00:25:21Guest:What do you mean what happened?

00:25:22Guest:You cannot tell anyone I'll lose my job here at NBC.

00:25:26Guest:I go, what's going on?

00:25:27Guest:He goes, we just came out of the writers' meeting, and Adam McKay wants you fired.

00:25:35Guest:And what are you talking about?

00:25:37Guest:He goes, he's fighting adamantly to get you off the show.

00:25:42Guest:And that...

00:25:44Guest:That was a moment where I went, all right, so he's the head guy from now on?

00:25:51Guest:Yeah.

00:25:51Guest:Because it just...

00:25:54Guest:I don't know if it's going to work out for me.

00:25:56Guest:So he just got in the job as head writer?

00:25:58Guest:As soon as Fred left.

00:25:59Guest:Right.

00:26:00Guest:And Steve Coren, he now moved in.

00:26:02Guest:Right.

00:26:02Guest:And I saw myself having a harder and harder time getting on the show.

00:26:06Guest:And then I had guys going, this is what Sandler did.

00:26:09Guest:He went for the update and he went for the monologue.

00:26:12Guest:So once I got that game plan, I started crush.

00:26:15Guest:I started getting a monologue after monologue.

00:26:18Guest:And I think even that, once I started getting a monologue, he's like, how do I stop this?

00:26:22Guest:This guy's pissing me off.

00:26:24Guest:Yeah.

00:26:24Guest:And you know what?

00:26:25Guest:I look back and I get it.

00:26:28Guest:I get it.

00:26:29Marc:Personality problems?

00:26:30Marc:Huh?

00:26:31Marc:There's a personality clash?

00:26:32Marc:Man, I don't know.

00:26:32Marc:I don't know.

00:26:33Guest:I'm too exhausted to even try to think about it so far in the past.

00:26:37Guest:But it's one of those shows I would have stayed on forever.

00:26:39Guest:I would have loved to stay there, but-

00:26:41Guest:That turned me.

00:26:45Guest:I started seeing the Sarah Silverman's and the Jay Moore's and everyone that came out, they're like, I hate Harry.

00:26:52Guest:Well, you went in such a different person and you came out this monster.

00:26:56Guest:I was turning into a monster.

00:26:57Guest:You were?

00:26:58Guest:What, just from bitterness?

00:26:59Guest:just angry there's no there's no process mark mark you go on stage you have a podcast yeah your podcast you're great because the numbers say you're great yeah your listeners tell you great but now you have someone going it's not that great yeah we're gonna we're gonna play this yeah but the yeah yeah but the numbers are yeah one-fourth of what marks it yeah but no yeah

00:27:24Marc:There's no rhyme or reason.

00:27:26Marc:Well, that's the weird thing about SNL is that it's not going anywhere.

00:27:29Marc:And so it's established.

00:27:30Marc:It's established.

00:27:31Marc:It's really just this political struggle of performers and writers to sort of plan their future.

00:27:38Marc:Yes.

00:27:39Marc:And if you're in the way of someone's future.

00:27:43Marc:Correct.

00:27:43Marc:Then they're going to figure out a way.

00:27:45Marc:It's like, well, I want my shit to look the best I can.

00:27:47Marc:And that guy's a problem.

00:27:48Marc:Correct.

00:27:48Marc:Yes.

00:27:49Marc:So because it's interesting because even you, whether you're aware of it or not, that the politics of saying like, well, this was Sandler's approach means that, you know, you've got there's a Bible to SNL of how to sort of like what's the angle that I can hang in here and fight for myself.

00:28:06Marc:Right.

00:28:07Marc:So it's not really an ensemble thing unless everybody agrees briefly that everyone's working together.

00:28:12Marc:And that happens rarely, it seems.

00:28:14Guest:Very rarely.

00:28:15Guest:Maybe In Living Color was the last one that might have pulled something like that off.

00:28:19Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:20Guest:But that is what that show is.

00:28:24Guest:And I loved being there.

00:28:27Guest:Yeah.

00:28:27Guest:But that was...

00:28:30Guest:He was so adamant about probably what you just said, stay out of my way, I'm going to crush.

00:28:37Guest:There was another problem where someone took a bit in a character mind, so I approached them, and then I started attacking them while we were rehearsing, and Adam came up, he's like, listen, don't mess with anyone on my sketch.

00:28:50Guest:I went, he stole...

00:28:52Guest:He's like, yeah, but you're messing with my sketch.

00:28:55Guest:I'm like, what about messing with the player because I'm thrown off and I can't act because I'm infested because I want to kill this guy for blatantly taken from me.

00:29:05Guest:What, a character?

00:29:06Guest:Yeah, and that's another thing.

00:29:08Guest:If someone...

00:29:10Guest:You know, you'd get in a position where you'd, all right, I want to do this funny drunk guy.

00:29:14Guest:Yeah.

00:29:15Guest:I loved Foster Brooks.

00:29:16Guest:Yeah, great.

00:29:17Guest:I mean, I got half-baked because I look high and I can play a stoner.

00:29:21Guest:I mean, it's in my wheelhouse.

00:29:22Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:23Guest:The drunk guy loved being a drunk and Foster Brooks made me laugh hard.

00:29:28Marc:When we were kids, right?

00:29:29Marc:Foster Brooks.

00:29:30Marc:At the D. Martin roast?

00:29:31Marc:Oh!

00:29:31Marc:Yeah.

00:29:31Guest:Yeah.

00:29:31Guest:I got them from my dad.

00:29:34Guest:I sit down and I watch it.

00:29:36Guest:He makes me belly laugh still.

00:29:40Guest:Belly, I can't get enough.

00:29:42Guest:It's Lauren Hardy.

00:29:42Guest:I can't get enough.

00:29:44Guest:I can't get enough.

00:29:49Guest:In one breath, they go, Lauren hates drunks, so don't do a drunk.

00:29:55Guest:I'm like, yeah, but it's such a funny character.

00:29:57Guest:And I would do the character nothing.

00:29:58Guest:And then two weeks later, it's, you know, Bill Bransky, the drunks at a bar.

00:30:04Guest:It's just a smart... Someone ripped off... I said, it's not a ripoff, but like, why would you lecture me?

00:30:11Guest:saying he doesn't like trunks and two weeks later you're doing trunks in a bar like what just tell me because i do understand being mature and old enough now i understand where everyone's head is at and where everyone's drive is at so i get it i get it now i just wish i knew that it's a power struggle back then yeah there's no way to know we're just sort of like i just want to

00:30:33Guest:Even going into SNL was a problem for me, which I didn't know.

00:30:37Guest:NBC was a big Jim Brewer fan.

00:30:40Guest:They were trying to develop Jim Brewer TV shows.

00:30:43Guest:So they went to Lorne and said, we're going to help you cast, and Jim Brewer's our guy.

00:30:49Guest:Who was that, Ludwin?

00:30:50Guest:The whole NBC crew.

00:30:51Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:30:51Guest:They were huge.

00:30:52Guest:Gary Considine was a big... I remember that guy.

00:30:55Guest:Gary Considine was a huge fan.

00:30:56Guest:He was the guy that gave me the call.

00:30:58Guest:Yeah.

00:30:59Guest:And...

00:31:01Guest:Lauren, the day after I auditioned.

00:31:04Marc:Gary Constantine, he used to have later, right?

00:31:06Marc:Yes.

00:31:08Guest:The day after I auditioned.

00:31:11Guest:I'm a no-name.

00:31:12Guest:I just auditioned.

00:31:13Guest:Next day, I get a call in the morning.

00:31:15Guest:Bro, Jim, Jim.

00:31:17Guest:Oh my God.

00:31:18Guest:Don't read the post.

00:31:19Guest:What?

00:31:20Guest:What does that mean?

00:31:21Guest:What does that mean?

00:31:23Guest:Dude, you're not going to lie.

00:31:24Guest:Oh my God.

00:31:25Guest:What happened?

00:31:26Guest:What's going on?

00:31:27Guest:Did you audition for SNL yesterday?

00:31:29Guest:Yeah.

00:31:30Guest:Oh, dude.

00:31:31Guest:Dude, don't read it.

00:31:34Guest:So there it is.

00:31:35Guest:The post?

00:31:36Guest:Yeah.

00:31:36Guest:Big picture of Lorne.

00:31:38Guest:Page six?

00:31:39Guest:They're going for SNL.

00:31:40Guest:No, it was a big write-up on SNL, and they're looking for a new cast member.

00:31:43Guest:And the first paragraph, already written off as comedian Jim Brewer.

00:31:48Guest:I'm like, why would you...

00:31:49Guest:Nobody, why would you, no one even knows me.

00:31:53Guest:Why would you say something?

00:31:54Guest:I auditioned.

00:31:55Guest:And then as I went on, that was Lorne telling NBC like, oh, you're in power now?

00:32:04Guest:Oh, okay.

00:32:04Guest:This is your guy?

00:32:05Guest:Politics.

00:32:06Guest:Oh, okay.

00:32:07Guest:Can you just write their big story?

00:32:09Guest:Yeah, he's out.

00:32:10Guest:Yeah.

00:32:10Guest:And put it in print.

00:32:11Guest:So how the fuck did you fight your way back in?

00:32:13Guest:I didn't.

00:32:14Guest:I didn't want anything to do with it.

00:32:15Guest:And then my age, it was, you know, these bastards.

00:32:18Guest:Who does he think he is?

00:32:19Guest:He's got some balls and this and that.

00:32:22Guest:And NBC's like, oh, no, no, you're going back in.

00:32:24Guest:I don't want to go back in.

00:32:25Guest:He doesn't want me there.

00:32:27Guest:Why would you?

00:32:28Marc:But the sad thing is that you just become this piece in this game.

00:32:32Marc:Yes.

00:32:32Marc:So you're just part of this struggle between him and the network.

00:32:35Marc:Yes.

00:32:35Marc:And he didn't give a fuck about you.

00:32:37Marc:No.

00:32:38Marc:You're just another funny man.

00:32:39Marc:A clown is upset.

00:32:41Marc:Right.

00:32:42Marc:The monkey.

00:32:43Marc:The monkey.

00:32:43Guest:The monkey.

00:32:44Guest:This monkey don't throw feces, so I'm going to nail him.

00:32:46Guest:And I didn't know what was going on.

00:32:49Guest:Why would you have me go back in?

00:32:51Guest:It's like me coming in here for you.

00:32:53Guest:I go, Mark, can I be part of your podcast?

00:32:55Guest:No.

00:32:56Guest:Okay.

00:32:57Guest:Well, you know, the producer, Mark, you really should sit down with this guy.

00:33:01Guest:And I'm like, well, it's my problem.

00:33:02Guest:Well, you should sit down.

00:33:03Guest:I don't even know I'm part of that.

00:33:05Guest:And then I had to meet with him again.

00:33:06Guest:Then he told him I was high.

00:33:09Guest:So I said, were you high?

00:33:11Guest:Fuck no, I wasn't high.

00:33:13Guest:Why would I go and audition high?

00:33:15Guest:Why would I meet Lorne Michaels high?

00:33:17Guest:I was a little high.

00:33:19Guest:I wasn't.

00:33:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:20Guest:I never- Well, you look- That's the thing.

00:33:22Guest:You look a little- I look wrecked.

00:33:24Guest:I get it.

00:33:28Guest:I got heavy eyelids that cover half my pupil.

00:33:30Guest:I look fucked up all the time.

00:33:32Guest:So, people's expectations levels of me are below zero, which kind of I learned to work to my advantage.

00:33:38Guest:So-

00:33:39Guest:Yeah, as I look back, it doesn't bother me at all, but I'm like, darn, we could have really... I was peaking.

00:33:47Marc:How did you get in, though, eventually?

00:33:48Marc:You went back.

00:33:49Marc:He said you were high.

00:33:50Marc:He puts you in the post.

00:33:50Marc:He made me go back.

00:33:51Marc:So you go back.

00:33:51Marc:He said you were high.

00:33:53Marc:He said I was high now.

00:33:54Marc:No, I auditioned again.

00:33:56Marc:Left now.

00:33:56Marc:He wants to meet me.

00:33:57Guest:Second time.

00:33:57Guest:Okay.

00:33:58Guest:So the second audition, he wants to meet you.

00:33:59Guest:Now he wants to meet me.

00:34:01Guest:I go meet him.

00:34:02Guest:Wait about an hour.

00:34:03Guest:Fred Wolf is like, Jimmy B, go in there.

00:34:05Guest:Don't try to be funny.

00:34:06Guest:Just be yourself.

00:34:07Guest:I go in.

00:34:09Guest:And he doesn't talk to me for like 15 minutes.

00:34:16Guest:He's just, well, it seemed like 15.

00:34:17Guest:It was probably like 10 minutes.

00:34:19Guest:But he's behind the desk eating popcorn.

00:34:22Guest:And his body language is completely sideways.

00:34:25Guest:His feet are up on the desk and he's facing sideways.

00:34:29Guest:And I'm an attentive student facing him.

00:34:32Guest:And...

00:34:34Guest:And he's eating the popcorn and it's just silence.

00:34:38Guest:Yeah.

00:34:38Guest:And I'm looking around.

00:34:40Guest:Yeah.

00:34:40Guest:And one of the head rides to my left, kind of with this shit-eating grin.

00:34:44Marc:Higgins?

00:34:45Guest:Yeah.

00:34:45Guest:Yeah, he was in mine too.

00:34:47Guest:Yeah.

00:34:47Guest:And I said, so you must really like popcorn.

00:34:51Guest:Yeah.

00:34:51Guest:And he...

00:34:52Guest:I don't know if that ticked him off, but he then, he stood up and he walked around me and he mumbled something about Belushi and Chevy Chase and Rita and what they really want.

00:35:03Guest:And then they started messing with me like Higgins is going, is that your hair?

00:35:09Guest:Like, what are you doing with your, I said, what do you mean this is my hair?

00:35:11Guest:Is it your real hair?

00:35:13Guest:Yeah.

00:35:14Guest:Oh, because, you know, spade.

00:35:15Guest:No, I don't know.

00:35:17Guest:What do you mean?

00:35:18Guest:Like, what are we talking about, man?

00:35:20Guest:What are we talking about?

00:35:22Guest:Where are we going?

00:35:23Guest:He's like, you need to look, man.

00:35:24Guest:You know, one of these guys are bald.

00:35:26Guest:So then after that meeting, they said I was high.

00:35:29Guest:I had to tell him I wasn't high.

00:35:33Guest:Then I had to go to a comedy club.

00:35:36Guest:Yeah.

00:35:36Guest:Stand-up New York?

00:35:37Guest:Or no, comic strip.

00:35:38Marc:Comic strip.

00:35:39Guest:They saw Mean Daryl Hammond.

00:35:40Guest:Right.

00:35:41Guest:I crushed.

00:35:42Yeah.

00:35:42Guest:crushed i heard marcy clint next day daryl hammond's hired yeah i'm on hold just me jay moore and oh dana gould and i went now clearly dana gould's gonna get it he's he's more of an intellectual he makes all the sense in the world for silent life yeah then jay's released it's me and dana gold i went

00:36:09Guest:I'm all right losing to Dana Gold.

00:36:11Guest:Yeah.

00:36:11Guest:If Dana Gold gets it, I get it.

00:36:14Guest:I love that guy.

00:36:15Guest:I love his bits.

00:36:16Guest:I love his stuff.

00:36:18Guest:I'm rooting for Dana Gold.

00:36:20Guest:Yeah.

00:36:21Guest:Dana Gold's released.

00:36:22Guest:Yeah.

00:36:23Guest:But I'm not hired.

00:36:24Guest:Yeah.

00:36:24Guest:So now he meets with me one more time.

00:36:27Guest:You go back to The Office?

00:36:28Guest:Yes.

00:36:29Guest:And everyone's in there.

00:36:30Guest:It's head writers, producers, director.

00:36:34Guest:And I'm in there and he goes, there's a lot of people that don't want to see you here.

00:36:43Guest:And there's a lot of people pulling for you.

00:36:45Guest:We have to make some decisions.

00:36:48Guest:I go to L.A., and the show starts in two weeks, so you'll find out soon enough.

00:36:54Guest:And now the cast is very big, so even if you do get hired, it's going to be very hard to get on.

00:37:04Guest:And you know what's amazing is- He did what you want.

00:37:10Guest:He's really being straightforward, which you can't ask for anything better at this day and age.

00:37:16Guest:At this time in my life, I really want that conversation.

00:37:19Guest:Listen, man, some people don't want you here.

00:37:21Guest:Some people do want you here.

00:37:23Guest:I'm going to make a decision.

00:37:24Guest:If you are on, I'm not going to lie to you.

00:37:26Guest:You're not going to be on a lot.

00:37:27Guest:I couldn't ask for a better conversation, a better setup.

00:37:31Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:37:31Guest:And he goes, and if you do get on, you know, you'll end up resenting me like everyone else.

00:37:35Guest:That's what he said.

00:37:36Guest:And I went, I would never resent you, which I don't and never would.

00:37:42Guest:And then three days before, it was a Friday.

00:37:48Guest:Yeah.

00:37:49Guest:And they called me up and said, you need to be upstate New York to start filming a commercial.

00:37:55Guest:What kind of commercial?

00:37:57Guest:They said, it's a sketch for SNL.

00:38:00Guest:I went, are they testing me?

00:38:01Guest:And they're like, no, I think he got it.

00:38:06Guest:So I started at 9 a.m.

00:38:08Guest:the next day filming, and I still wasn't sure.

00:38:11Guest:You never know when you're hired or fired at that place.

00:38:14Guest:Am I officially on the cast?

00:38:16Guest:And then we were live the following Saturday, and it was just, that's it.

00:38:19Guest:Boom.

00:38:19Guest:I never even had time to think.

00:38:21Guest:That was it.

00:38:22Guest:And then you're only on for six episodes, and this one's getting fired, and you're just, am I going to make it?

00:38:27Marc:You're working.

00:38:28Guest:So that was- That's the story.

00:38:30Guest:That is the story of the SNL days.

00:38:32Guest:So now, before SNL, I thought you came from Florida, but you don't.

00:38:38Guest:That's where I really kicked in the stand-up comedy gear.

00:38:41Guest:It was Florida.

00:38:42Guest:Yes.

00:38:43Guest:So we grew up where?

00:38:44Guest:I grew up in Long Island, and Long Island, I started in high school in rock clubs.

00:38:49Guest:Really?

00:38:50Guest:Yeah.

00:38:51Guest:And it was a little rock club called Februaries in Hempstead.

00:38:55Guest:And we were all 11th grade, 12th grade, and I'd go up.

00:38:59Guest:And they're like, bro, before we go up, go up and do your- Oh, before the band?

00:39:02Guest:Yeah, go up and do stand-up.

00:39:03Guest:And I'd do three minutes.

00:39:05Guest:And I remember one of my bits that I was so proud of was Live Aid was huge back then.

00:39:10Guest:Yeah.

00:39:10Guest:And Ozzy was on.

00:39:12Guest:I would do all my impressions hanging out with my friends.

00:39:14Guest:And I'd be like, hey, who saw Live Aid?

00:39:18Guest:It's in front of six people, everyone I know.

00:39:21Guest:In the background, bing, bing, bong.

00:39:24Guest:Boom, boom, boom.

00:39:28Guest:And I said, how great was Live Aid, especially when they had Ozzy and...

00:39:32Guest:Wasn't it great when they threw the Ethiopian on stage?

00:39:34Guest:He bit his head up.

00:39:36Guest:All right, everybody.

00:39:37Guest:All right, keep it going for Live Wire.

00:39:41Guest:I'll be up in a half hour.

00:39:43Guest:And that's where the stand-up was starting because I couldn't really get in the clubs.

00:39:50Guest:And then I did some open mics at this place called Governors.

00:39:53Guest:Governors had a great sound system.

00:39:55Yeah.

00:39:55Marc:Yeah.

00:39:57Marc:And the only thing I remember about governors is like, this is a good sound system.

00:40:00Marc:Like, fuck, people smoke here.

00:40:02Marc:Yes.

00:40:03Marc:Oh, my God.

00:40:03Guest:Yes.

00:40:04Guest:Me too.

00:40:05Guest:Right.

00:40:05Guest:It was smoking.

00:40:06Guest:They were drinking.

00:40:07Guest:I mean, smoke.

00:40:08Marc:Wow.

00:40:08Guest:You're allowed to drink and smoke.

00:40:10Guest:I was only like 18, 17.

00:40:11Guest:Eddie Murphy.

00:40:12Guest:I wanted to be Eddie Murphy.

00:40:13Guest:a good club man it was a great club still is really still is a great club monster place to work stuff out it's a it's an awesome following yeah great great room and then um 89 moved to florida i'm sorry 87 moved to florida for college or no my parents retired and they moved down there i went with them and they lived on long island

00:40:37Guest:Yeah, they did the old, you know, we're retired, moving to Florida.

00:40:40Guest:What business was your dad in?

00:40:42Guest:Garbage man.

00:40:43Guest:Really?

00:40:44Guest:Hardcore blue collar.

00:40:45Guest:He was garbage man.

00:40:46Guest:My mom worked for Pan American.

00:40:49Guest:So, I mean, we were seven miles from the airport.

00:40:51Guest:Every three minutes, just... Yeah, yeah.

00:40:56Guest:and um so yeah it was we're really close to the city it was long island yeah it was very really racial at the end of the block was all black we were all white yeah if a black guy walked down the street the whole neighborhood would just stop stare oh no oh yeah it was it was uh you don't come on our side and we don't go on your side that's the rule you know that yeah um

00:41:21Guest:yeah i yeah it was pretty how many brothers and sisters you got oh it's it's uh it's all different my mom's like four husbands oh really first one was my parents are older yeah they're world war ii generation yeah people think it's my grandparents my parents my dad had three kids got a divorce

00:41:44Guest:My mom, first husband, died in World War II, three weeks before he was supposed to come home.

00:41:50Guest:And she was pregnant with his kid.

00:41:52Guest:So that was the oldest brother.

00:41:54Guest:Then my next sister is a mystery.

00:41:57Guest:We don't know what her deal is.

00:41:59Guest:Really?

00:41:59Guest:Yeah.

00:41:59Guest:She still can't get out of my mother.

00:42:01Guest:She's got a big scar on her face.

00:42:03Guest:No one knows what the scar is.

00:42:04Guest:Stop it.

00:42:04Guest:Swear to God.

00:42:05Guest:She's got a big burn mark on her face.

00:42:06Guest:No one.

00:42:06Guest:And my mom's like- Really?

00:42:09Guest:Oh, I swear to God.

00:42:10Guest:The ambulance spilt acid on her face by accident.

00:42:14Guest:Oh my God.

00:42:15Guest:And we all bought it until like, wait a minute, that makes no sense.

00:42:18Guest:What are you talking?

00:42:19Guest:She won't fess up.

00:42:21Guest:Then the next one were, and then my mom met someone else, had two kids.

00:42:26Marc:Married him?

00:42:28Guest:Yes.

00:42:29Guest:Really abusive.

00:42:30Guest:Tried to murder her.

00:42:31Guest:Really ugly.

00:42:33Guest:Bad, bad, bad, bad stuff with my older brother and sister.

00:42:36Guest:Abusive to them, really dark.

00:42:38Guest:Yeah?

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:40Guest:And then she met your dad?

00:42:42Guest:Then met my dad, and then he was a heavy drinker.

00:42:46Guest:I mean, he was still out of World War II for three and a half years.

00:42:49Guest:Yeah.

00:42:50Guest:And...

00:42:52Guest:Those two had me.

00:42:54Guest:My mom didn't know she was pregnant until five and a half months in.

00:42:57Guest:Wow.

00:42:57Guest:She went to have an abortion.

00:42:59Guest:Yeah.

00:43:00Guest:She wasn't sure, like, ah, it's too late.

00:43:02Guest:I could die.

00:43:02Guest:I guess I'll have it.

00:43:03Guest:Yeah.

00:43:05Guest:That's your humble beginning?

00:43:06Guest:Yeah.

00:43:06Guest:So the beginning started in a low-income...

00:43:10Guest:in a low income kind of i won't say projects but that's that's where it started and were all these other kids out of the house by then or you still had two of them were still in my the ones from the dark guy yes the dark got my sister was full-blown i mean they were hippie beyond hippies and my sister would always play hendrix foxy lady i was only like four three or four and i loved

00:43:33Guest:Foxy lady.

00:43:35Guest:And I loved Credence.

00:43:36Guest:Yeah.

00:43:37Guest:Oh, Credence.

00:43:37Guest:So she introduced me to that.

00:43:39Guest:And my brother had hair literally down to his waist.

00:43:45Guest:Yeah.

00:43:45Guest:And he's really buff.

00:43:46Guest:And he was, I could tell now he was always stoned.

00:43:49Guest:Yeah.

00:43:49Guest:He called me worm.

00:43:51Guest:And every time I asked him like, where are you going?

00:43:52Guest:He'd go crazy, man.

00:43:54Guest:Yeah.

00:43:54Guest:And I didn't know what it meant.

00:43:55Guest:It really bothered me.

00:43:57Guest:I was just a little fat, porky kid.

00:44:00Marc:That's insane, man.

00:44:02Marc:So your mom, I guess, married a few alcoholics.

00:44:06Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:44:07Marc:Yeah.

00:44:08Marc:And so what happened to these other siblings?

00:44:10Guest:My oldest one died.

00:44:13Guest:He had a heart attack, left three kids.

00:44:15Guest:The one from the World War II vet?

00:44:16Guest:Correct.

00:44:17Guest:Yeah, he died.

00:44:18Marc:But you guys were close, relatively close?

00:44:20Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:21Guest:The two dark ones?

00:44:23Guest:The two dark ones, that guy died, and we're all very close.

00:44:27Guest:Going crazy guy died?

00:44:28Guest:Yeah, going crazy guy died, and we're all really close.

00:44:32Guest:How did he die?

00:44:34Guest:I think like a heart attack.

00:44:36Guest:No one want anything to do with him.

00:44:38Guest:So I always like- He went off the grid?

00:44:41Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:44:42Guest:What happened to this guy?

00:44:43Guest:I mean, the stories here is horrible.

00:44:45Guest:My brother tells a story whenever he has a couple and he starts sobbing.

00:44:49Guest:Which brother?

00:44:50Guest:Your real full brother?

00:44:51Guest:I have all halves.

00:44:53Guest:Oh, so your father's kid.

00:44:55Guest:So this is my mother's-

00:44:56Guest:my mother's second son this is the bad guy this is the bad guy had the two kids the one who died correct the first death is from world war ii my mom has a baby that guy this is he's dead from world war ii now my mom meets meets a mysterious person has my oldest sister right no one really knows her father

00:45:20Guest:Then she marries a guy who's huge at Pan American when it kicks off.

00:45:25Guest:He's huge.

00:45:27Guest:They go to Brazil.

00:45:29Guest:And my brother and sister grow up in Brazil.

00:45:35Guest:Until like six, seven talking Portuguese.

00:45:38Guest:But my brother tells stories there of like this guy would beat the shit out of mom.

00:45:44Guest:And one day came out all wasted shooting at her in the street and shooting at... Come on.

00:45:51Guest:She went into the pool and he's trying to shoot.

00:45:53Guest:And the cops came, got him before he can kill her.

00:45:58Guest:And I'm just like, what?

00:46:00Guest:And then there's other really harsh things that...

00:46:04Guest:from that not my business to say that's not my sister but that brother he he died as well no oh the rest of them are all alive oh so only the first guy only the first guy died and the rest of us are all really tight and we all live close we're all tight we're all different worlds and your father's kids there you great all cops all cops one teacher and two cops so real blue collar man as blue collar as you can get teachers and cops wow yeah

00:46:31Marc:all right so okay so that's your world yeah it's like that's a that's real blue collar that's east coast blue it's east coast blue collar yeah yeah no i know a lot of people i know i mean i don't hear that story much because that kind of blue collar you only get that in you know chicago right or you know where the whole family's cops right it's just like maybe i'm maybe i'm wrong but no but even my nephews my nephews are now cops

00:46:55Guest:My nieces are teachers.

00:46:58Guest:We are cops and we are teachers.

00:47:01Guest:We don't go past blue collar.

00:47:02Guest:It's great, though.

00:47:03Guest:It is great.

00:47:04Guest:And we're very honest and real.

00:47:08Guest:It's such a great... I love being around my family.

00:47:12Guest:We're a great diversity.

00:47:13Guest:No one's ever jealous.

00:47:14Guest:Everyone cheers each other on.

00:47:16Marc:Because there's an acceptance to... You choose your life and you're not sitting around going like, I'm trying to get this other thing.

00:47:22Marc:It's like I got my pension...

00:47:24Marc:Right.

00:47:25Marc:You know what I mean?

00:47:26Marc:I'm done in 62, and then we can do this, and I'm going to do that.

00:47:29Guest:Oh, my God, you got a TV show.

00:47:31Guest:I'm like, oh, he's going to fly us out.

00:47:33Guest:It's so exciting.

00:47:34Guest:We're going to have a party for your big day.

00:47:37Marc:Right.

00:47:38Marc:It's awesome.

00:47:38Marc:And there's none of that weird kind of middle class, upper middle class disappointment.

00:47:43Marc:It's like, why don't you- Right.

00:47:44Marc:Are you sure you want to do comedy?

00:47:46Marc:They're like, fuck.

00:47:47Marc:Let them try it, right?

00:47:48Guest:Yes.

00:47:49Guest:Yeah.

00:47:49Guest:So I had that from my mom.

00:47:50Guest:My mom didn't get it, but my dad was like, listen, you're young.

00:47:53Guest:You do what you want.

00:47:54Guest:You'll never have your youth back.

00:47:56Guest:You go do this.

00:47:58Guest:If you fail, you still got the garbage.

00:48:00Guest:You got the police.

00:48:01Guest:You'll be all right.

00:48:03Marc:My grandfather used to say, it's like, you should get a job at the post office.

00:48:07Marc:They treat their people very well.

00:48:09Marc:Right.

00:48:10Marc:There's a way of thinking.

00:48:11Marc:Yes.

00:48:12Marc:They really believed in the sort of, you work hard, then they take care of you after.

00:48:15Guest:That was old America.

00:48:16Guest:Yeah.

00:48:17Guest:Old America.

00:48:18Guest:Yeah.

00:48:18Guest:You be loyal, faithful, they'll take care of you.

00:48:21Guest:It doesn't exist anymore.

00:48:22Marc:Did they take care of your parents, your father anyway?

00:48:25Marc:I mean, did he, you know.

00:48:27Guest:Yes.

00:48:28Guest:They took care of my mom and dad.

00:48:29Guest:My dad's a World War II vet.

00:48:30Guest:So every once in a while, I get a little.

00:48:32Guest:I have some feelings towards any vets, like it really pisses me off that they have to pay taxes.

00:48:40Guest:It pisses me off that they ever have to pay medical.

00:48:44Guest:That stuff really... And that's when I started listening to politics more.

00:48:50Guest:That's when I started getting into you and the whole... No one would think that I'm in that world because I don't seem I would be, but I'm viciously...

00:48:59Guest:I have hardcore thoughts of, you know, when McCain would go up and he'd be like, you know, I really care for the vets.

00:49:07Guest:I'm like, you're so full of shit.

00:49:09Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:49:10Guest:Then why don't you really do something?

00:49:12Guest:Yeah.

00:49:13Guest:Why don't you make a bill where they don't ever have to, if you're in combat, you don't ever pay for medical again.

00:49:20Guest:So don't give me the shit you take care of your own.

00:49:22Guest:It really pisses me off.

00:49:23Guest:Because they don't.

00:49:24Guest:They don't.

00:49:24Guest:My father was in World War II, three and a half years.

00:49:26Guest:It was like, here, take a paycheck, or they said they'll pay you for a year, or good luck, knock yourself out.

00:49:34Guest:Really?

00:49:35Guest:Yeah, I mean, that was the- But the VA doesn't take care of them?

00:49:37Guest:The VA does not take care of him.

00:49:40Guest:And that's another thing.

00:49:40Guest:You can go to a VA hospital.

00:49:41Guest:You have to go where they are.

00:49:42Guest:And they can only make a certain amount of income.

00:49:45Guest:So if he, as a whole, makes more than this or less than that, which is another ridiculous thing.

00:49:50Guest:Who cares if- Just take care of him.

00:49:53Guest:If a man is in Iraq or Afghanistan or whatever, and he's worth $10 million a year, who cares?

00:50:00Guest:That's his working.

00:50:02Guest:Who cares if he's worth nothing?

00:50:04Guest:He fought and did everything you told him he should do.

00:50:08Guest:He should now be taken care of.

00:50:10Guest:Case closed.

00:50:11Guest:There's no other facts involved.

00:50:13Guest:So yeah, that stuff really gets under my skin once in a while.

00:50:16Marc:Now, when you went to Florida with your folks, it was just you or the other kids too?

00:50:20Marc:Just me.

00:50:21Marc:Uh-huh.

00:50:22Marc:The rest of them were older and they didn't need to go?

00:50:24Guest:Yeah.

00:50:25Guest:My one brother went to the mountains.

00:50:26Guest:He is classic...

00:50:29Guest:he escaped the world the crazy guy who left uh my brother bobby and patty all right bobby was the long hair bought a dog went across the country backpacked yeah dog was called thaw yeah white german shepherd yeah and uh he ended up in the catskills near oneonta eventually again blue collar he worked for the state yeah

00:50:54Guest:for like 35 years with retarded people.

00:50:58Guest:Yeah.

00:50:59Guest:Teaching them woodwork.

00:51:00Guest:Yeah.

00:51:01Guest:So that was his job.

00:51:04Guest:Barely gets by, bought a house on a hill, no electricity.

00:51:08Guest:Yeah.

00:51:08Guest:As each kid came along, he would just build an extra room.

00:51:11Guest:Yeah.

00:51:12Guest:Still to this day, oh, the winter's coming.

00:51:14Guest:I got to make the chimney better.

00:51:18Guest:I mean, he is- That's what he does.

00:51:19Guest:Yeah.

00:51:19Guest:And that's his life.

00:51:20Guest:I just saw him.

00:51:21Guest:And he's all right.

00:51:22Guest:Yeah.

00:51:23Guest:Yeah.

00:51:23Guest:And then that was another thing.

00:51:24Guest:Started pissing me off politics.

00:51:26Guest:The guy has been helping.

00:51:28Guest:He's had his arm broken, his shoulder dislocated because he works with the most violent retarded people.

00:51:35Guest:Yeah.

00:51:36Guest:He gets the violent ones.

00:51:37Guest:Mentally challenged.

00:51:38Guest:Mentally challenged.

00:51:39Guest:Yeah.

00:51:39Guest:Retarded.

00:51:41Guest:I have no problem saying retarded.

00:51:42Guest:Yeah.

00:51:43Guest:It's retarded.

00:51:43Guest:Not like dumb.

00:51:44Guest:You can't handle it.

00:51:45Guest:That's who they are.

00:51:46Guest:Yeah.

00:51:46Guest:They're not challenged.

00:51:47Guest:They're retarded.

00:51:48Guest:Yeah.

00:51:48Guest:It's a big difference.

00:51:51Guest:Okay.

00:51:52Guest:So... And they're violent.

00:51:57Guest:So...

00:51:59Guest:Three months before his retirement, Como.

00:52:04Guest:Yeah.

00:52:05Guest:The first one?

00:52:07Marc:The new one.

00:52:08Marc:Okay.

00:52:08Guest:Fired a whole bunch of state workers, including my brother, so they wouldn't have to pay them benefit.

00:52:13Guest:They wouldn't have to take care of- Four months shy of retirement.

00:52:16Guest:Pensions and all this and all that.

00:52:19Marc:Really?

00:52:19Guest:Yeah.

00:52:20Guest:And my brother called me up and he's like, this is how people grab rifles and start taking people out because of things like this.

00:52:28Guest:And it's like, you know, dude, he gave you 35 years of bossing his balls, of doing what's helping these people's lives.

00:52:40Guest:And you just want to, I don't want to pay his pension.

00:52:43Guest:Fired.

00:52:44Guest:And so thank God there was, he, when he started going to complain about this, he met a young kid just out of college and was like, oh my God, this is such bullshit.

00:52:57Guest:Yeah.

00:52:58Guest:I'm going to hire you.

00:52:59Guest:I'm going to get you a job for a different state job that'll connect with this state job and you're going to get your pension no matter what, even if it's just sweeping the street.

00:53:07Marc:Yeah.

00:53:07Guest:That's horseshit.

00:53:08Guest:And she did.

00:53:09Guest:And so he just retired.

00:53:10Guest:But that's the type of stuff that really,

00:53:14Guest:Yeah, it's horrible.

00:53:15Guest:You know, when they say, oh, this nutball flew a plane into the IRS bill.

00:53:20Guest:He must have been wacky.

00:53:21Guest:No, no, no, no, no.

00:53:22Marc:He was done.

00:53:23Guest:No, he was done with the horseshit.

00:53:26Guest:He had enough.

00:53:27Marc:He had enough of you guys.

00:53:28Guest:That's what happened.

00:53:29Marc:Yeah, I mean, you come from that world, and those are the people that get fucked.

00:53:35Marc:And they just take the hit, and nobody really speaks for them unless they need them to vote for them.

00:53:42Marc:Then they make them a bunch of promises and say, we're going to do this, we're going to do that.

00:53:45Marc:And you get out, these working class people are like, good, that's our guy.

00:53:48Marc:And then he gets in, and he's like, oh, yeah, I'm not going to do that right now.

00:53:51Guest:And that's why I enjoyed and also learned from you when I listened to you on those stations.

00:53:57Yeah.

00:53:57Guest:What I also discovered about politics is I can't do politics.

00:54:03Guest:I think I can, but it comes out too mean.

00:54:08Guest:So I can't be mean.

00:54:09Guest:I'm here just to be funny.

00:54:10Guest:When I'm on stage, just be funny.

00:54:12Guest:That's what I learned.

00:54:13Guest:Jim Brewer is about- Entertaining.

00:54:15Marc:Entertaining.

00:54:16Marc:Yeah.

00:54:16Marc:That's who Jim Brewer is.

00:54:17Marc:Well, I mean, I was angry, too, but I think it's interesting for a guy like you where, you know, in the sense that the working class, you know, I think arguably should be a little progressive, you know, because of the unions, because of everything else, what they once stood for.

00:54:35Marc:Right.

00:54:35Marc:But somehow or another, you know, the right has sort of mined their rage.

00:54:39Marc:Correct.

00:54:41Marc:And turned it against themselves.

00:54:43Guest:Correct.

00:54:43Guest:They brainwashed them.

00:54:45Guest:Brilliant, brilliant brainwashing.

00:54:46Guest:And then what I learned was, you know, at the end of the day, the country is, it's a great sales pitch, the whole freedom thing.

00:54:57Guest:It's a funny, it's a brilliant sales pitch.

00:55:00Guest:It's a brilliant, you guys are allowed to do what you want and say what you want.

00:55:06Guest:There's one condition, you need money.

00:55:08Yeah.

00:55:09Guest:Right.

00:55:10Guest:And by the way, money is always the God.

00:55:13Guest:And by the way, that God has no morals and no boundaries, no faith.

00:55:19Marc:We'll even let you spend money you don't have and then we'll own you.

00:55:22Guest:Right.

00:55:24Guest:And all that stuff, politics, I even think is just, it's really no different than professional wrestling.

00:55:31Guest:It really is.

00:55:32Marc:Well, yeah, the charade of it.

00:55:33Marc:But the thing about coming from what you came from is you have a real sense of community, a real sense of family, which is really what this country was built on.

00:55:41Marc:And the people that you came from are necessary for the running of this country.

00:55:47Marc:And they are treated the worst, but yet have the tightest communities and have more acceptance in those communities.

00:55:53Marc:and and they get fucked all the time but for some reason you know there's a mixture of things i think some of them like well this is we yeah we always get fucked and they surrender to it or they're fucking us and it's the it's the it's the ones that claim to represent us you know they it's this it's it's brilliant it's it's brilliant because i i'm out of that world to a degree yeah because i do all right and all that yeah

00:56:17Guest:But what they do is when you're in that world, you're struggling.

00:56:21Guest:Always.

00:56:22Guest:You're doing what you think is best.

00:56:24Guest:Yeah.

00:56:24Guest:Because you're told to do it because that's what the country wants you to do and that's what's the right thing.

00:56:29Guest:But you're always struggling and anyone who struggles needs a finger to point.

00:56:36Guest:Well, it's because this, it's because of that.

00:56:40Guest:I ain't doing good in school because the teachers, well, I got arrested because that cop's a- Victim mentality.

00:56:48Guest:So what the media does, which is, I tip my hat to them, it's brilliant brainwashing.

00:56:56Guest:They target them with-

00:56:58Guest:It's the blacks.

00:57:01Guest:It's the Mexicans.

00:57:01Guest:It's this.

00:57:04Guest:And then they get them all riled.

00:57:07Guest:And they just move their rage.

00:57:09Guest:Right against back at them.

00:57:10Guest:And I'm always very silent because I listen to my family now and we now have completely different views, but I never jump in because I was there.

00:57:19Guest:Yeah.

00:57:20Guest:I was there.

00:57:20Guest:Yeah.

00:57:22Guest:I'm not there anymore because I have more of an observational view, but I get it.

00:57:29Marc:But you get along with everybody?

00:57:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:31Marc:Yeah.

00:57:31Marc:So when you went to Florida, you started, where'd you, the Comedy Cafe?

00:57:35Marc:No.

00:57:36Guest:Ron Bennington's comedy scene.

00:57:38Marc:And it was- So when Bennington had that club down there.

00:57:42Guest:Yes.

00:57:42Guest:And he had a big radio show.

00:57:44Guest:Yeah.

00:57:44Guest:And it was- He's a good guy.

00:57:46Guest:He's a great guy.

00:57:46Guest:Very funny.

00:57:48Guest:You guys still friends?

00:57:49Guest:No.

00:57:49Guest:i i think so i wouldn't say friends right i would you know he says hello i say hello oh he's in the building with you there for a while he was never invited me on his show so i always assume like oh all right it must be you know whatever he's also just you know he's he seems like a guy that i don't want to say gave up yeah

00:58:10Guest:but like, you could have been a contender.

00:58:13Guest:Right, right.

00:58:13Guest:I think he could have been a contender.

00:58:15Guest:Radio's a tough game, man.

00:58:16Guest:And then finally, and he's brilliant on the radio.

00:58:18Marc:Yeah, no, he's great.

00:58:19Marc:Great interviewer, good guy, and it's just like, it's a tough racket.

00:58:22Guest:And so, it was me, it was Billy Gardell,

00:58:28Guest:It was Daryl Hammond.

00:58:30Guest:Gardell was Florida before Chicago?

00:58:31Guest:Tom Rhodes, yes.

00:58:32Guest:Rhodes, yeah.

00:58:33Guest:Tom Rhodes.

00:58:34Guest:Gardell was in Orlando.

00:58:36Guest:So he did this guy, Phil Tagliferri.

00:58:39Guest:It was Dan Whitney before his Larry the Cable guy.

00:58:41Guest:Before Larry the Cable guy, yeah.

00:58:43Guest:brian reagan was my hero he would come in every six months yeah crushed the room yeah he was headlining and i just i i was like oh my god he's the funniest guy i never and then we don't imitate him for for a month straight and i'd be doing him on stage and it would drive me nuts because i didn't want to be contagious you were kind of cock yeah cocking like you know when you yeah yeah when you're a

00:59:06Guest:kid you know what i'm saying yeah i'm doing regan i get it out of me yeah it's hard uh so that was that was the crew that was the crew yeah it was a great crew yeah and so you guys were just hitting it just hammering spots great camaraderie

00:59:21Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:22Guest:And then I knew it was time to go for television and take it seriously.

00:59:28Guest:And I moved on my own.

00:59:30Guest:To New York?

00:59:30Guest:Back to Long Island to try to get in the clubs there.

00:59:33Guest:Where'd you live?

00:59:34Guest:The relatives?

00:59:35Guest:Long Island with my best friend on the street I grew up with.

00:59:37Guest:Really?

00:59:38Guest:Lived in his basement, plane screeching over every three minutes.

00:59:42Guest:Yeah.

00:59:42Guest:I grew up on the same street for 19 years.

00:59:45Guest:Yeah.

00:59:46Guest:And it was the greatest time of my whole life.

00:59:49Guest:I never left the street.

00:59:50Guest:It was amazing.

00:59:51Marc:And then you started what?

00:59:51Marc:You got in at Boston Comedy Club and the strip or where?

00:59:55Guest:Comic strip was my... I got the lottery at the comic strip.

00:59:58Guest:And the night I was there, Chris Rock was on stage doing a bit about...

01:00:06Guest:about the Cosby show.

01:00:09Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:00:10Guest:And I was starstruck because he looked like he was my age.

01:00:16Marc:Yeah.

01:00:16Guest:I went, oh, my God.

01:00:17Guest:He was kind of, right?

01:00:18Marc:I think he is.

01:00:18Guest:Yeah.

01:00:19Guest:I went, oh, my God, there's a guy my age.

01:00:21Guest:And he was going, in the hospital.

01:00:24Guest:Now, here's a black lawyer female meeting a black doctor.

01:00:34Yeah.

01:00:35Guest:Now, this ain't the craziest show I've seen ever living in the all-white neighborhood.

01:00:42Guest:What's America?

01:00:43Guest:Tell me two people.

01:00:45Guest:And there was only like 12 people, and I was laughing so hard on the side of the stage.

01:00:51Guest:I was like, this kid is freaking brilliant.

01:00:54Guest:I want to be this kid.

01:00:56Guest:He came off and I couldn't wait to say, I just moved here.

01:00:59Guest:And then I saw him again.

01:01:03Guest:And then I saw him on an Eddie Murphy thing.

01:01:06Guest:I was like, that's that.

01:01:07Guest:That's the kid I was telling you about.

01:01:09Guest:And then I got into Boston Comedy Club.

01:01:12Guest:I remember.

01:01:14Guest:And I remember the first night I was there, Chappelle was on stage.

01:01:18Guest:And all I remember was being in the back room with my friend.

01:01:22Guest:Was it like 89, 90?

01:01:24Guest:No, it was 91.

01:01:25Guest:91, yeah.

01:01:26Guest:Maybe 90, 91.

01:01:27Guest:Yeah.

01:01:28Guest:And Chappelle went on stage in Red Johnny and the Round Guy.

01:01:31Marc:Red Johnny and the Round Guy.

01:01:32Marc:Chappelle was like 16, 17, right?

01:01:33Guest:He was a kid and he went up.

01:01:35Guest:With the hat thing, right?

01:01:36Marc:Yes.

01:01:36Guest:Switching the hat.

01:01:37Guest:And so was... Yeah.

01:01:40Guest:It was a famous guy.

01:01:41Guest:He died of AIDS years later.

01:01:43Guest:He was more of a street performer.

01:01:45Guest:Oh, Charlie Barnett.

01:01:46Marc:Yeah.

01:01:46Guest:Yeah.

01:01:46Guest:Charlie Barnett was there.

01:01:48Guest:Yeah.

01:01:49Guest:And he wasn't even using the mic.

01:01:50Guest:He was doing some... Yeah, yeah.

01:01:52Guest:Like, what is this?

01:01:53Guest:Oh, my God, what is this?

01:01:54Guest:Yeah.

01:01:54Guest:And then Chappelle went up...

01:01:56Guest:And all I remember was looking at Chappelle.

01:01:59Guest:I don't even remember his material, but I swear on my kids' lives, my friend and I just went, I know this sounds crazy, but I feel like I'm staring at a huge star and he doesn't even know it yet.

01:02:11Guest:Yeah.

01:02:11Guest:And he came off stage and I had to just say, oh my God, dude, you're going to be huge.

01:02:18Guest:Yeah.

01:02:18Guest:He didn't kill.

01:02:19Guest:Yeah.

01:02:20Marc:yeah there's just he's smooth i just like this guy's gonna kill you he's like oh man thanks man thanks man thanks man and then that's kind of where it started and what led to uh so then obviously you got in with cats and you started i got development deal another development did you and dave get a development deal yeah before half-baked yeah this is a great story i kind of remember this we killed

01:02:45Guest:Barry's one brilliant thing he did.

01:02:47Guest:Yeah.

01:02:48Guest:He did a lot of brilliant things, but connivy and dark.

01:02:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:52Guest:Montreal Comedy Festival, none of us get it.

01:02:53Marc:He gave me my first gigs, you know, back in Boston in the 80s, the late 80s.

01:02:58Marc:I mean, you know, before he started managing people.

01:03:00Marc:Right.

01:03:00Marc:Like he ran a booking agency out of the basement of an apartment he managed.

01:03:04Guest:I heard about that.

01:03:05Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:05Marc:So, I mean, I got a history with that guy.

01:03:07Marc:All right, so you and Dave.

01:03:08Guest:So, me, Dave, Jay Moore, Red Giant and Round Guy, Tracy Morgan, all of us.

01:03:15Guest:He rented, none of us got in the Montreal Comedy Festival.

01:03:19Guest:Yeah.

01:03:19Guest:So he rented a room.

01:03:21Guest:I kind of remember this.

01:03:21Guest:He rented a room.

01:03:23Guest:For the Boston Comedy Company.

01:03:24Guest:Correct.

01:03:25Guest:And all the industry went to that show.

01:03:27Guest:Yeah, I remember.

01:03:28Guest:And we crushed.

01:03:29Guest:And he probably made a million and a half dollars off of development.

01:03:33Guest:On that night?

01:03:34Guest:On that night on development deals.

01:03:36Guest:I had, it was NBC, the guy who made the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

01:03:41Guest:Jeff Pollack.

01:03:42Guest:Quarter million, almost.

01:03:45Guest:We were up to $275,000 for a kid who's living in someone's attic.

01:03:54Guest:Basement or attic.

01:03:56Guest:Chappelle.

01:03:58Guest:Yeah.

01:03:59Guest:This is what led to Chris Rock.

01:04:01Guest:Chris Rock developed his own career.

01:04:02Guest:However-

01:04:04Guest:Dave Chappelle had two one-hour HBO special and a talk show deal for HBO from that Montreal Comedy Festival set.

01:04:16Marc:For the renegade show that Barry Katz put on, 1991 or two?

01:04:20Marc:Correct.

01:04:21Marc:Now, Chappelle's a kid.

01:04:22Guest:He just did comic relief.

01:04:24Guest:He's starting to get movies.

01:04:25Guest:So he had...

01:04:27Guest:A half-hour weekly show and two one-hour specials locked from that night.

01:04:34Guest:I had a development deal going on 300,000 with Jeff Pollack.

01:04:40Guest:Yeah.

01:04:40Guest:Flying to his house, meeting Will Smith.

01:04:43Guest:Yeah.

01:04:44Guest:Oh, my God.

01:04:45Guest:Oh, my God.

01:04:47Guest:And...

01:04:48Guest:Now I understand what happened, and my gut against the whole thing, he went to... Barry had a deal at Disney.

01:04:57Guest:Yeah.

01:04:57Guest:At Disney said, I can get you two of the biggest stars right now.

01:05:01Marc:So he's working it all in.

01:05:02Guest:He's working it, and Disney offers...

01:05:05Guest:Guarantee six episodes.

01:05:08Guest:Yeah.

01:05:08Guest:Spinoff show, Home Improvement.

01:05:10Guest:Yeah.

01:05:10Guest:Me and Dave, I swear on my life.

01:05:12Guest:And that money topped the HBO deal.

01:05:14Guest:No.

01:05:15Guest:Less.

01:05:16Guest:Uh-huh.

01:05:16Guest:Way less.

01:05:17Guest:But the guarantee was, we're going to be on.

01:05:20Guest:Yeah.

01:05:20Guest:There's no guarantee with HBO.

01:05:22Guest:There's no guarantee.

01:05:23Marc:Right.

01:05:23Guest:Even with me, with Will Smith.

01:05:24Marc:Right, right.

01:05:25Marc:Sure.

01:05:25Guest:There's no guarantee.

01:05:25Guest:Just a deal.

01:05:26Guest:There's no guarantee, man.

01:05:28Guest:I'm like, but it's $275.

01:05:30Guest:yeah yeah um i swear on my kids lives i told dave i went dave because dave's like man it'd be cool to work together i said dave every comic stream is to be on hbo you have two one hour specials yeah and a talk show i gotta be honest with you i don't know if i'd leave that i said i'm fine man i got nbc

01:05:55Guest:He's like, I know, but they keep saying this.

01:05:58Guest:It ain't.

01:05:59Guest:So Barry basically talked us out of it to go- To Disney.

01:06:04Guest:To Disney.

01:06:05Guest:Yeah.

01:06:06Guest:Three shows on Home Improvement turned into one show.

01:06:10Guest:Yeah.

01:06:11Guest:Second show of this show called Buddies.

01:06:15Guest:We already filmed one episode.

01:06:17Guest:The commercials are on air.

01:06:20Guest:Tuesday night after Holman Proom and Jim Brew and Dave Chappelle are Buddies.

01:06:23Guest:Yeah.

01:06:24Guest:On the cover TV guide.

01:06:25Guest:Yeah.

01:06:27Guest:USA Today.

01:06:27Guest:Me and my wife.

01:06:29Guest:pulled over on ventura boulevard start sobbing sobbing going i can't believe this is happening in my life yeah and then i got i had my friends dude this brings back to blue collar yeah i flew my friends out for the premiere of the tv show yeah which was in a couple days was in like three four days yeah um

01:06:54Guest:Me and Dave walk around the mall.

01:06:56Guest:Some famous rapper comes up.

01:06:57Guest:Can't wait to watch the show.

01:06:58Guest:Yeah.

01:06:59Guest:My friends, they're white trash in my room.

01:07:01Guest:Yeah.

01:07:01Guest:We're all staying in one room.

01:07:04Guest:Hey, man, can you come down to my room?

01:07:06Guest:I said, my friends are here.

01:07:07Guest:We got a limo for the night.

01:07:08Guest:That's Barry.

01:07:09Guest:Can they come?

01:07:10Guest:No, man, come down alone.

01:07:12Guest:I go down and he goes, you and the show ain't happening.

01:07:18Guest:I said, what are you talking about?

01:07:19Guest:He goes, you and the show aren't happening.

01:07:23Guest:So the show's not happening.

01:07:24Guest:Now the whole time there was rumors they were getting rid of Dave.

01:07:27Guest:Because Dave, whatever, he can't act and this and that.

01:07:31Marc:Yeah.

01:07:32Guest:I said, the show's not... He goes, no, the show's going.

01:07:36Guest:They fired you.

01:07:38Guest:And I...

01:07:41Guest:i just i can't even tell you the shock factor i couldn't absorb it all but it was such a defiant moment because two amazing things happened to me three amazing things happened to me i started crying not for me for dave i was heartbroken for dave

01:08:07Guest:Because I was like, Jesus Christ, I just fucking ruined his career.

01:08:13Guest:And they were suing.

01:08:15Guest:HBO banned Barry's comic.

01:08:16Guest:Don't ever bring a comic to us.

01:08:18Guest:Fuck you.

01:08:19Guest:Yeah.

01:08:20Guest:Your guys are done forever.

01:08:22Guest:That was a big lawsuit.

01:08:24Guest:They were going to pay.

01:08:25Guest:They were paying.

01:08:26Guest:Disney was paying HBO.

01:08:28Guest:Hey, we got it covered.

01:08:30Guest:But it was ugly.

01:08:31Yeah.

01:08:33Guest:So I was heartbroken for Dave.

01:08:38Guest:I went down to my friends and they're standing there and they knew right... They're like, dude, what's the matter?

01:08:45Guest:They fired me.

01:08:49Guest:And my friend's holding a fucking beer and a scotch.

01:08:52Guest:He's like, they fired you?

01:08:54Guest:Can I do that?

01:08:56Guest:I said, they just did.

01:08:58Guest:And it was silence for like 30 seconds.

01:09:00Guest:He goes, well...

01:09:02Guest:I guess we're going to go out and get fucked up because you ain't got to get up because you ain't got a job, faggot.

01:09:08Guest:We got a limousine.

01:09:09Guest:I ain't fucking leaving.

01:09:09Guest:And I belly laughed so hard because this guy just took it back to, hey, you lost your FedEx job.

01:09:17Guest:Let's go.

01:09:17Guest:We're going out.

01:09:18Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:18Guest:And it made me feel...

01:09:20Guest:normal human but it was really awkward going out that night and still seeing the commercials on tv uh they couldn't find dave for like two days um so it was supposed to run or you were supposed to shoot i mean like you know we're in the middle of shooting our second episode right

01:09:39Guest:It was after I was fired, it was still airing the commercials.

01:09:43Guest:Yeah.

01:09:46Guest:So that, and I'll never forget this.

01:09:50Guest:This is when I learned the malice and the coldness of you're just a product.

01:09:55Guest:Yeah.

01:09:55Guest:I'm talking with my co-star who is my wife on the show.

01:09:59Yeah.

01:09:59Guest:And she's like, oh my God, I just heard what happened.

01:10:02Guest:This is horrible.

01:10:04Guest:And I'm like, I know.

01:10:05Guest:I don't know what happened.

01:10:07Guest:She's like, why did they fire you?

01:10:08Guest:No one has an answer.

01:10:09Guest:I just want to hear you can't act or we don't like you or you do this or you do that.

01:10:14Guest:I just want an answer.

01:10:15Guest:I couldn't get an answer.

01:10:18Guest:So she goes, I said, well, the only thing I kind of heard was they're looking for a star.

01:10:25Guest:I heard they want to ask Brendan Fraser.

01:10:29Guest:And she goes, oh, my God, that would be awesome.

01:10:34Guest:And that's when I realized, like, all right.

01:10:38Guest:That actually made me feel better because I realized just, like, no, we're not.

01:10:41Guest:no one gives a shit man no one yeah and you were a new guy and all and some of these people been through the ropes out here they grow up in this shit they auditions and this and that it's just they get so fucking callous that but you know they it was your big oh my god break and i and i went to and i said in the limo i said you know what we're going to the improv right i need to go on stage event and i went and i ran into two comics and they go oh dude i heard what happened so you heard already

01:11:09Guest:Yeah, this happened at three in the afternoon.

01:11:12Guest:Yeah.

01:11:13Guest:And they're in the club.

01:11:14Guest:So apparently this has been planned for a couple of days and I just didn't know it.

01:11:19Marc:You don't think people were making calls that day?

01:11:21Guest:Oh, they were making calls because I don't know if it was Adam Farrar or who it was, but they go, listen, man.

01:11:29Guest:Can you tell me about your character?

01:11:31Guest:Because I'm going in for it tomorrow.

01:11:32Guest:No, come on.

01:11:33Guest:On my kids' lives, hope they die.

01:11:35Guest:Come on.

01:11:35Guest:Hope my kids die from lying.

01:11:37Guest:Oh, my God.

01:11:39Guest:And it means Chappelle had dinner that night on, you know, Laurel Canyon?

01:11:42Guest:Yeah.

01:11:43Guest:What's that cool restaurant?

01:11:45Marc:Yeah, right as you go up the hill.

01:11:47Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:11:47Guest:We're eating in there.

01:11:48Guest:It's dark.

01:11:49Guest:It's nice.

01:11:49Guest:Yeah, a couple days later.

01:11:50Guest:Yeah.

01:11:52Guest:And the waitress goes, dude, you can't make this up.

01:11:56Guest:Yeah.

01:11:57Guest:On my kids' lives.

01:11:58Guest:Yeah.

01:11:59Guest:Are you guys actors?

01:12:02Guest:Well, comedians.

01:12:04Guest:Oh, did you hear about that comedian who got fired from the show?

01:12:09Guest:Come on.

01:12:09Guest:And he was like on the show and his commercials were still on and Chappelle's like, ah!

01:12:15Guest:Oh, man, I heard about it big time.

01:12:20Guest:And I went, yeah.

01:12:23Guest:Yeah, we heard about it, all right.

01:12:25Guest:And we never fessed up.

01:12:26Guest:It was us.

01:12:27Guest:Really?

01:12:29Guest:I swear to God.

01:12:30Guest:The next day, this is my launch into Hollywood.

01:12:33Guest:The next day, Fox calls me up and says, we want you to test for Herman's head.

01:12:38Guest:We heard what happened.

01:12:39Guest:That's messed up what Disney did.

01:12:41Guest:I get Herman's head.

01:12:45Guest:Disney goes, oh, no, no, no, no.

01:12:47Guest:You're still on a contract.

01:12:49Guest:Oh, my God.

01:12:50Guest:Fox ain't with us.

01:12:51Guest:You ain't doing the show.

01:12:52Guest:So I get a show the next day.

01:12:54Guest:You can't do it.

01:12:55Guest:I can't do it.

01:12:56Guest:Now I'm about to go AWOL.

01:13:00Guest:You're about to fly a plane.

01:13:02Guest:I'm about to fly a plane into Disney.

01:13:05Guest:Jay Moore gets that part.

01:13:06Marc:Yeah.

01:13:08Guest:I then, now they have me- And he's Barry's client.

01:13:12Marc:Yes.

01:13:15Okay.

01:13:15Guest:Now, I get to do Clerks.

01:13:23Guest:They're like, you're going to be the star of Clerks.

01:13:25Guest:They fire Chris Smith, writer, creator of Clerks.

01:13:31Guest:He's out.

01:13:33Guest:Okay.

01:13:34Guest:So I've got a really bad attitude.

01:13:36Guest:Yeah.

01:13:37Guest:And I read in the show, they fire the head guy filming it and they get another guy.

01:13:43Guest:Show gets picked up for mid-season.

01:13:48Guest:then week before production it doesn't go and then the snl cycle started in july like four months later okay and then i auditioned the next day in the paper oh by the way here's jim brewer he ain't in it a guy who had this go bust on him in a couple months i'm like what what i'm just trying to but you wrote it out get by yeah

01:14:12Marc:But you wrote it out, and it was a horrible path there.

01:14:17Guest:Oh, man.

01:14:18Guest:Shot out of a cannon.

01:14:19Marc:So you did Half-Baked after SNL?

01:14:22Guest:Yeah, and Chappelle kept saying, man, they ain't going to do this to us, man.

01:14:27Guest:And now Chappelle got fired, and Chris Rock got that deal.

01:14:31Guest:The talk show deal.

01:14:33Guest:Yeah.

01:14:33Guest:However, Chris Rock deserved every ounce of that.

01:14:38Guest:Right.

01:14:38Guest:And deserved everything to the tease.

01:14:42Guest:And that staging of events led to all that.

01:14:48Guest:Yeah.

01:14:49Guest:And Chappelle was just on a vengeance.

01:14:53Guest:And I started pitching a pot movie.

01:14:55Guest:Yeah.

01:14:56Guest:I said, the times need a new pot movie.

01:14:58Guest:Yeah.

01:14:58Guest:New Cheech and Chong movie.

01:14:59Guest:And when I started pitching it, Chappelle, one of the producers said, you know, Chappelle's pitching a movie.

01:15:05Guest:It's pretty funny.

01:15:07Guest:Yeah.

01:15:07Guest:I went, I did not know he was pitching it.

01:15:09Guest:He's like, you two should talk.

01:15:10Guest:You'd be great in this movie.

01:15:12Guest:And Chappelle came to Caroline's and asked me if I would play Brian in this movie.

01:15:19Guest:And then...

01:15:20Guest:So, my God, I'd love to, but I didn't believe him it was going to be a real movie.

01:15:23Marc:It was him and Neil, right?

01:15:24Marc:Yeah.

01:15:25Guest:And I didn't really believe it was going to happen.

01:15:27Guest:And then it happened.

01:15:30Guest:And then I thought after that, oh, my God, this movie's going to launch my career.

01:15:35Guest:I'm still waiting for that phone call.

01:15:39Marc:But, you know, you survived and after SNL, it didn't get too dark when you just started smoking weed.

01:15:46Guest:I was smoking weed, started a family.

01:15:48Guest:Oh, okay.

01:15:49Guest:Went into radio.

01:15:49Guest:I started touring with a band.

01:15:51Guest:I wanted to be a rock.

01:15:52Guest:Comic.

01:15:53Guest:That was another thing that really drove.

01:15:55Guest:Right before I left Barry, I had a band.

01:15:58Guest:I said, Barry, I want to get a tour bus.

01:16:00Guest:Yeah.

01:16:00Guest:When's the last time there was a rock band?

01:16:03Guest:Yeah.

01:16:04Guest:Kinison, maybe?

01:16:05Guest:Yeah.

01:16:05Guest:I go, I'm going to mix stand-up with metal.

01:16:08Guest:Yeah.

01:16:09Guest:And we're going to tour.

01:16:10Guest:And we did, and it was a big party.

01:16:12Guest:I mean, Lars Metallica and Alice in Chains, and we're videotaping everything.

01:16:18Guest:And I fired Barry because I didn't like some of the stuff he did.

01:16:21Guest:Finally.

01:16:22Guest:Yes.

01:16:24Guest:Stupid I am.

01:16:25Guest:And then-

01:16:28Guest:About a year later, here comes Dane Cook in the tour bus.

01:16:33Guest:Yeah.

01:16:33Guest:Who was with Barry, and it just went, oh, you motherfucker.

01:16:38Guest:Yeah.

01:16:40Guest:Oh, you dirty monkey.

01:16:41Guest:Yeah.

01:16:42Guest:And again, Dane had nothing to do with it, but I, to this day, will say, Barry went, oh, okay.

01:16:51Guest:I still like that brilliant idea, and I can beat you to the punch.

01:16:56Guest:So, um...

01:16:58Guest:no bitterness just a lot of brilliant learning great school yeah so like now i mean tell me about this thing you did with your dad because that sounds and he's still around huh yeah i used to tour with my dad for years and years and years i'd always bring him on the road and that was just because what he was is your mom still around good friends yeah my mom's 87 really yeah my dad's 90 lives with me

01:17:21Marc:And you took him out on the road a lot because he got- All the time.

01:17:25Guest:And he liked it.

01:17:26Guest:He's so funny on the road.

01:17:27Guest:Yeah?

01:17:27Guest:He's a rock star on the road.

01:17:29Guest:Oh, you put him on stage?

01:17:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:17:31Guest:He crushes.

01:17:34Guest:He's dark.

01:17:35Guest:He would kill at colleges because he's just dark and funny and get away with it because he's older.

01:17:40Guest:Does he write material or is he just- No, no, no.

01:17:42Guest:He's not a comedian.

01:17:43Guest:Yeah.

01:17:43Guest:But he would come up for three minutes and I'd tell stories because at SNL I'd introduce him to people and he's just a blue collar.

01:17:49Guest:He didn't know anyone.

01:17:50Guest:Yeah.

01:17:51Guest:So I'm introducing him to Sting and he's going, he's going, what's your name?

01:17:57Guest:He's like, I'm Sting.

01:17:58Guest:Bing?

01:18:00Guest:You're Bing?

01:18:00Guest:And he go, I ain't got time for this shit.

01:18:03Guest:Yeah.

01:18:03Marc:They're like, you just told Sting.

01:18:05Marc:You ain't got time.

01:18:06Marc:This is brilliant.

01:18:08Marc:So you bring him up and talk to him.

01:18:09Marc:Yes.

01:18:09Guest:And I tell the stories of him meeting all these stars.

01:18:11Guest:John Goodman.

01:18:13Guest:I said, John, you were hanging out with John Goodman?

01:18:15Guest:He said, yeah, fat fucks drank all my beers.

01:18:18Guest:this is fucking working i can't write this yeah and so i would tell the stories of my dad yeah and tell him on the and that story became like the story and i found the pattern of i'm a storyteller yeah i've always been a storyteller yeah and uh i brought my dad i filmed my dad but i filmed it because i know he's getting older ain't gonna be around and i there was some you know he starts crapping himself and i clean it and

01:18:45Guest:I still do and shower them and bathe them.

01:18:48Guest:And that's, uh...

01:18:50Guest:It's a heavy part of life for some people, and I just wanted to, like, hey, I'm out here, been on TV, and if I could do it, you could do this.

01:19:00Guest:It's not that hard.

01:19:01Guest:And this generation is cold.

01:19:02Guest:They don't hug.

01:19:03Guest:They don't say, I love you, but it doesn't mean they don't love you.

01:19:06Guest:They come from a different era.

01:19:08Guest:So just try to understand it, and that's why I made the DVD.

01:19:12Guest:That's great.

01:19:13Guest:Yeah, I love it.

01:19:15Guest:I'm more proud of that thing than anything else I've ever done.

01:19:19Marc:And that's called More Than Me.

01:19:21Marc:Yeah.

01:19:21Marc:And that's available.

01:19:22Guest:I think it's on iTunes.

01:19:24Guest:And, you know, I sell the shows, but it's on iTunes.

01:19:27Guest:And I think it was on Netflix for what did really well on Netflix.

01:19:32Marc:Oh, great, man.

01:19:33Guest:So you're doing all right.

01:19:34Guest:Oh, I'm happy.

01:19:35Guest:All right.

01:19:35Guest:I'm starting a podcast, nothing like anyone's done yet.

01:19:39Guest:Oh, good.

01:19:40Guest:Because it's just- When's that going to happen?

01:19:42Guest:I think I'm going to launch it in November.

01:19:44Guest:I did about eight episodes now.

01:19:46Guest:Oh, you haven't put them up yet?

01:19:47Guest:No, it's a little different.

01:19:49Guest:I don't want to- All right, all right.

01:19:52Guest:It brings you on a journey.

01:19:54Marc:Okay.

01:19:54Guest:So you listen to the first one, it kind of leads you to the second one.

01:19:57Guest:The second one kind of leads you to the third.

01:19:58Guest:It's a journey.

01:19:59Marc:All right, so, okay, so you've been through all this stuff, and you seem okay.

01:20:04Guest:Yeah.

01:20:04Marc:And you seem to be learning your lessons of life.

01:20:07Marc:I mean, are there, like, outside of the things we talked about, I mean, is there some, like, because you've been through what you've been through, and you've sort of arced into where you are now, and you had all the experiences, I mean, was there a moment where you're like, fuck, everything's different?

01:20:21Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:20:22Marc:What?

01:20:22Marc:This is...

01:20:25Guest:I was around the mid-2000s doing serious satellite radio, but I really wanted to start controlling everything I wanted to do.

01:20:37Guest:I wanted to film my dad.

01:20:38Guest:I want to go on the road.

01:20:39Guest:I want to change my material.

01:20:40Guest:I want to be family.

01:20:41Guest:I want to talk about everything that goes on in my life.

01:20:44Guest:Before SNL, before everything...

01:20:46Guest:I did a lot of family stuff.

01:20:48Guest:I did some silly stuff, but it was... But you became this sort of like explosive guy.

01:20:54Guest:Yes, yes.

01:20:54Guest:I had to be the explosive guy.

01:20:56Guest:Right.

01:20:56Guest:You know, I get it.

01:20:58Guest:Right.

01:20:58Guest:And I was really at a place where I went, all right, I really want to get back to what I was before all this happened.

01:21:05Guest:Right.

01:21:06Guest:And freaking Bill Cosby.

01:21:10Guest:Yeah, the best.

01:21:12Yeah.

01:21:12Guest:Bill Cosby.

01:21:15Guest:Yeah.

01:21:17Guest:Wants to do an interview with no one else but me.

01:21:21Guest:On your show.

01:21:22Guest:I don't even know what he's promoting.

01:21:24Guest:Yeah.

01:21:25Guest:Or if he is, I said, was he promoting?

01:21:27Guest:He wasn't promoting anything.

01:21:29Guest:He wants to be on my show.

01:21:33Guest:And now we're getting back to the young, I'm messing with my head.

01:21:37Guest:My head is like, why?

01:21:38Guest:Yeah.

01:21:39Guest:Why is, what's going on here?

01:21:42Guest:Yeah.

01:21:42Guest:He wants a pre-interview before he comes on.

01:21:45Guest:Yeah.

01:21:46Guest:Which I taped this conversation.

01:21:48Guest:This is on a serious radio.

01:21:49Guest:Yeah, my wife's very upset that I taped this, but I'm like, I got to tape this phone conversation.

01:21:53Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:53Guest:So taped the phone conversation and Bill Cosby says to me, he's just how he starts the conversation.

01:21:59Guest:He goes, you know, I was...

01:22:02Guest:I was in San Diego and a little white boy came to me and he recited one of my bits.

01:22:11Guest:And I thought to myself, wow, the writing.

01:22:18Guest:Writing is essential for this day and age.

01:22:23Guest:And then he started talking about when he started and George started and all these people started.

01:22:29Guest:Yeah.

01:22:30Guest:We weren't comics.

01:22:32Guest:We had other missions in life.

01:22:35Guest:I said, okay.

01:22:36Guest:He goes, have you read my book, Cosbiology?

01:22:41Guest:I'm like, where are we going with this, man?

01:22:44Guest:I said, no, I have not.

01:22:45Guest:He goes, I want you to read this section.

01:22:48Guest:He goes, basically, when I come on the show, I want you to know and I want your audience to understand the power to inspire.

01:23:00Guest:Because you can inspire and your audience wants to be inspired.

01:23:08Guest:And I... Why you?

01:23:10Guest:Exactly.

01:23:14Guest:So I read this freaking, and the chapter reads, the day I quit show business, and I was immediately insulted.

01:23:30Guest:Is he telling me I'm worthless and I should just jump out of the business?

01:23:34Guest:Like, why would Bill, I'm still, why is Bill Cosby, what is going on?

01:23:40Guest:And the chapter went on to say how when he started, he was making all this money and doing great.

01:23:48Guest:However, he wasn't being himself and he wasn't appealing to what he wanted to be putting out there.

01:23:57Guest:And that when he did do that, that's when he will control his course.

01:24:03Guest:Right.

01:24:04Guest:And no longer will he be controlled by these other forces.

01:24:08Guest:Right.

01:24:08Guest:And it couldn't have been at a more pivotal time my entire life.

01:24:14Guest:And to this day, dude, I'm into praying and all that stuff.

01:24:17Guest:I ain't religious, never read a Bible.

01:24:19Guest:But I can't tell you how many times I broke down.

01:24:22Guest:I was like, please put signs in my life.

01:24:25Guest:I don't know what to do.

01:24:26Guest:I'm dumb.

01:24:27Guest:And this came and it blew my freaking mind.

01:24:32Guest:And as soon as he came on, and I understood what he was saying, but I still couldn't get over why me.

01:24:38Guest:Yeah.

01:24:39Guest:What?

01:24:39Guest:Is it just random?

01:24:40Guest:Yeah.

01:24:40Guest:Does he do this with everyone?

01:24:41Guest:Yeah.

01:24:43Guest:He comes on, he's like, did you, first thing in his mouth, did you read what I asked you to read?

01:24:49Guest:Yeah.

01:24:50Guest:Yes.

01:24:51Guest:And what did you get out of it?

01:24:55Guest:And I went, well, I didn't get into detail because I wasn't ready to be that honest with him.

01:24:59Guest:Yeah.

01:25:00Guest:Well, I'm not going to lie to you.

01:25:01Guest:I really need that in my life right now for a lot of reasons, career, life, and everything.

01:25:06Guest:Yeah.

01:25:07Guest:But thank you.

01:25:09Guest:And then he basically went on to say how he's like, you were a fat child, correct?

01:25:14Guest:Yes.

01:25:16Guest:He goes, would you consider yourself dumb?

01:25:19Yes.

01:25:19Guest:No, if anything, I was the king of my block, which I was.

01:25:22Guest:I was the ringleader.

01:25:23Guest:I was the king.

01:25:24Guest:And he goes, aha.

01:25:27Guest:Goes, the networks wanted Fat Albert to be stupid.

01:25:32Guest:He wanted to be a dumbbell.

01:25:35Guest:He wanted to be a troublemaker, sloppy.

01:25:38Guest:How do you remember Fat Albert?

01:25:41Guest:I said he was the brilliant one.

01:25:43Guest:Aha!

01:25:45Guest:You must always stick to what you know is right.

01:25:50Guest:And I've... Bill Cosby...

01:25:55Guest:I won't say he was the main reason, but he was a pivotal reason why I went, Jim Brewer, 2008, is going to set a new course.

01:26:04Guest:And I wrote my book.

01:26:07Guest:No book deal.

01:26:08Guest:Just like, I want to write these stories.

01:26:10Guest:Yeah.

01:26:11Guest:Film my dad on the road.

01:26:12Guest:I want people to see how you can take care of your father and blah, blah, blah, and be a comedian, blah, blah, blah.

01:26:18Guest:I put out a new special, which was called Let's Clear the Air, which really meant to go, yes, I know you know me as Brian from Half-Baked, and I know you from... But this is who Jim Brewer is going to be from now on.

01:26:31Guest:Yeah.

01:26:31Guest:And the next special just came out.

01:26:33Guest:Now I'm ready.

01:26:34Guest:So...

01:26:35Guest:I guess what I'm saying is he, 2008, changed my life and made me face my fear of stop trying to appeal to everyone.

01:26:46Guest:You're just in it for yourself too.

01:26:48Guest:And yourself alone, if you believe in it, can be massive.

01:26:54Guest:It can be inspiring and people will follow you like what you've done.

01:26:58Guest:wow did you ever find out why you no and i sort of don't want to because if it turns out to be just like i don't know my kids said like i don't want to know in my head i know what i asked for leading up to it yeah and i got my answers from bill cosby bill cosby that's

01:27:17Marc:That's spectacular.

01:27:19Guest:Bill Cosby.

01:27:20Marc:Just like, you know.

01:27:21Marc:Even Seinfeld.

01:27:22Guest:Seinfeld came on.

01:27:23Marc:I was like, oh my God, it's Jerry.

01:27:25Marc:But the thing about Bill Cosby, he did that whole thing about Noah.

01:27:29Marc:Yes.

01:27:30Marc:Which is basically why me.

01:27:31Marc:Brilliant.

01:27:32Marc:You know what I mean?

01:27:33Marc:Brilliant.

01:27:33Marc:I want you to build an ark.

01:27:35Marc:An arc.

01:27:36Guest:You want me?

01:27:38Guest:What's a cubit?

01:27:41Guest:Brilliant.

01:27:42Guest:But why you?

01:27:43Guest:And then Seinfeld came on.

01:27:45Guest:And I always thought Seinfeld's a guy who would look down on me.

01:27:49Guest:He's a loud guy.

01:27:51Guest:And Seinfeld, the way he is, and I look up to him, he goes...

01:28:00Guest:You know, that last special you did was really good.

01:28:02Guest:I said, which one?

01:28:04Guest:The one with the band.

01:28:05Guest:Really smart and clever.

01:28:07Guest:You ever do that again?

01:28:08Guest:I was like, I thought about doing it.

01:28:11Guest:I would revisit that.

01:28:13Guest:I really enjoyed that.

01:28:15Guest:I've never been interviewed by a comedian.

01:28:17Guest:This was great.

01:28:18Guest:And that...

01:28:19Guest:I don't think those guys realize when they come and they just kind of touch you.

01:28:24Guest:Yeah.

01:28:24Guest:Like you had Robin Williams.

01:28:26Guest:Yeah.

01:28:26Guest:That must have been unreal.

01:28:27Guest:I mean, those guys go a long, long way in your life.

01:28:32Guest:So I got to say, 2008, I kind of changed my life and this is the direction I was going.

01:28:37Guest:And I still am.

01:28:38Guest:It was great talking to you, man.

01:28:39Guest:Thanks for having me.

01:28:40Guest:It's great.

01:28:42Guest:Love where you're at.

01:28:44Guest:I love watching people grow, move on, succeed.

01:28:50Guest:I'm a cheerleader.

01:28:51Guest:I always have been from my open mic days when I had a van and I pile everyone in my van and we go from club to club.

01:28:57Guest:Yeah.

01:28:58Guest:So when I...

01:28:59Guest:watching you through the years, and then when you had this, and you finally get to control your destiny, because that's all you ever needed.

01:29:07Guest:Yeah.

01:29:08Guest:Was you just to control your destiny.

01:29:10Guest:I'm excited for you, man.

01:29:11Marc:Oh, that's nice, man.

01:29:12Marc:Congrats to you.

01:29:12Marc:I'm glad we got along so well.

01:29:14Marc:Yeah, me too.

01:29:15Marc:All right.

01:29:15All right.

01:29:21Marc:That is our show.

01:29:22Marc:That was a great story.

01:29:23Marc:Am I right?

01:29:23Marc:Many great stories.

01:29:25Marc:Good guy.

01:29:25Marc:There you go.

01:29:27Marc:I guess I was, you know, I was closer than I thought to that SNL gig.

01:29:31Marc:But clearly my personality got in the way.

01:29:35Marc:Lorne Michaels, I want you, man.

01:29:37Marc:I want to talk to you.

01:29:39Marc:I'll be respectful.

01:29:40Marc:I just need closure.

01:29:41Marc:All right?

01:29:41Marc:I'm reaching out.

01:29:43Marc:If any of you know Lorne Michaels, please tell him that I'd like to talk to him.

01:29:47Marc:I don't know how else.

01:29:49Marc:I don't know.

01:29:50Marc:Maybe, you know what?

01:29:51Marc:I'm just going to call his office.

01:29:55Marc:I'm going to call his office the next time I go to New York and just go, it's Marc Maron.

01:29:58Marc:I'd like to talk to Lorne.

01:30:01Marc:I can try that.

01:30:03Marc:I can try that.

01:30:04Marc:Maybe it's easier than I thought.

01:30:05Marc:Maybe it's easier that I'm making it.

01:30:08Marc:I better be ready to talk, though.

01:30:10Marc:I better be ready with some shit.

01:30:12Marc:I think I am.

01:30:14Marc:I think I am.

01:30:16Marc:There's a couple conversations I have.

01:30:18Marc:I have to have before I die.

01:30:20Marc:One with Lorne Michaels and one with my father.

01:30:24Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:30:27Marc:Get the app, folks.

01:30:28Marc:This show's been around for a few years.

01:30:29Marc:There's hundreds of them.

01:30:31Marc:You can only get the most recent 50 for free at any given time.

01:30:35Marc:All episodes free for six months, and they go behind a paywall, they call it.

01:30:39Marc:But it's a paywall easily climbed if you get the app, the free app.

01:30:43Marc:Upgrade to premium for a few bucks, and you can stream all of them from the beginning.

01:30:49Marc:Also, I'm reminding you about the Brian Jones mugs and coffee deal at the WTF pod.com.

01:30:54Marc:I love you all.

01:30:57Marc:And, you know, do what you got to do over there at WTF pod.com.

01:31:01Marc:All right.

01:31:02Marc:Show's coming along good.

01:31:03Marc:The writing's going well.

01:31:04Marc:The stories are great.

01:31:05Marc:We're having a good time in the writing room.

01:31:08Marc:It's been a very great experience.

01:31:10Marc:I'm happy to be busy.

01:31:15Marc:Fucking world is my oyster.

01:31:17Marc:Boomer lives.