Episode 434 - Moon Zappa
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuck will Barry Fins?
Marc:What the fuck nuts?
Marc:Popular cartoon when I was a kid.
Marc:The what the fuck nuts.
Marc:Hello, I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:Thank you for listening to the show.
Marc:We have Moon Zappa on the show.
Marc:Moon Zappa, the dreamy Moon Zappa.
Marc:I've known Moon for a long time, and I think the first time I met Moon was probably in the late 80s, and I had a real crush on her.
Marc:I believe back in the day I may have been in love with Moon Zappa.
Marc:Pow.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Just shit my pants.
Marc:Just coffee.coop.
Marc:Is that a nice way to follow a nostalgic, melancholic reflection on a guest?
Marc:Moon Zappa is here and we are old friends and it was a fun talk.
Marc:And
Marc:She filled in some gaps on Captain Beefheart that only she could fill in.
Marc:And those of you who've watched my special Thinkypane or listen to this show know I have a mild obsession with Captain Beefheart.
Marc:And me and Moon chatted about it.
Marc:She grew up around it.
Marc:She grew up in the halls of genius of her father.
Marc:And she's quite a thinky person in her own right.
Marc:Also, I wanted to say that Thinky Payne, the special on Netflix, will be available, I believe, today in non-English speaking countries that have Netflix.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:I'm trying to keep it above ground, above water.
Marc:High roading it still and lonely and a bit sad, but I have been cleaning out my house.
Marc:I'm just throwing shit away.
Marc:I'm trying to honor the idea that if you haven't used it or looked at it in over a year, you probably don't need it.
Marc:How much more time do I have, people?
Marc:I threw away a shitload of linens.
Marc:I mean, the closet where my linens were, it seemed like a history of failed relationships and fabric.
Marc:I had linens going back to probably the first wife.
Marc:Ridiculous.
Marc:Duvet covers.
Marc:The whole business.
Marc:What's sad about it is everything.
Marc:And what's interesting about it is just how much we do as a reaction to somebody else.
Marc:Good things, bad things, passive things.
Marc:The presence of somebody drives us, compels us one way or the other.
Marc:I don't know how many more of these I have in me, really.
Marc:And I'm certainly terrified and nervous emotionally.
Marc:And I'm going to try to sit in it.
Marc:As my friend Dragon says, don't waste the pain.
Marc:But I'm doing okay.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you for asking.
Marc:Oh, let me do this.
Marc:We have a special guest today.
Marc:I called Daniel Naser from the Electronic Frontier Foundation because I wanted to get you all up to speed on the patent troll podcast patent.
Marc:Because you all contributed to that.
Marc:And this is a real story, really unfolding, and it's very exciting.
Marc:You know, cultural momentum has sort of stacked up against these fuckers, these patent trolls.
Marc:And, you know, the personal audio patent troll, which was fucking with me and Jesse Thorne and Sam Seder and Jay Moore and Red Band and Scott Aukerman and a number of others.
Wow.
Marc:Something is happening and it all happened because of your help.
Marc:You know, I had made enough noise along with some other podcasters and, you know, the EFF was on board and they they decided to take it upon themselves to to to file a reexam.
Marc:And they finally filed it.
Marc:And it's a fairly exciting thing.
Marc:And the reason I'm talking about it is because I hate anybody that seeks to extort money, take advantage of the little guy, stifle growth and exciting creativity with this garbage business.
Marc:this garbage predatory business of buying up old patents or trying to reintroduce old patents and retrofit them onto existing technologies and shaking down the little guy.
Marc:But look, let me get Daniel Naser from the EFF on the phone.
Marc:This is very exciting because it could dismantle this patent.
Marc:It doesn't make us safe.
Marc:It doesn't mean that there's legislation in place that'll protect people.
Marc:It doesn't mean a lot of things, but the momentum is against these fuckers.
Marc:So let's call Daniel Naser and
Marc:now.
Marc:Hello?
Marc:Hey, Daniel.
Marc:Daniel Naser, Mark Maron.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:How are you, sir?
Marc:You all right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, look, I'm thrilled about what's happened here with this patent thing, and I also just wanted to talk to you because so many of my listeners and so many podcast fans and podcasters had sort of rallied support to make this thing happen, and I guess I kind of want to explain to them
Marc:Exactly what happened.
Marc:We reached out and we asked our listeners to support the EFF to help make this podcasting patent go away.
Marc:But it hasn't gone away, but something great has happened, correct?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So we filed a petition to challenge the patent at the patent office.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we did that this week.
Marc:Okay, so you filed a petition.
Marc:Now, let me go through the steps here.
Marc:Now, this is just one means of defense against a patent troll.
Marc:A petition means that there's a patent, we think it stinks, and the reason it stinks is because this technology has been around.
Marc:It's an abuse of the system in one sense, but it's just basically saying that you can't claim a patent on something that preexisted.
Marc:Now, how do you go about showing that?
Guest:Yeah, so that's right.
Guest:This is what's called a petition for inter parties review, and it's filed at the patent office.
Guest:And it's not really about, you know, whether personal audio or bad guys or a patent troll.
Guest:This is a really kind of specific technical thing where we're presenting some evidence.
Guest:of websites and technology that existed before this patent was filed that we say do what they're claiming that they have a right to.
Marc:And they basically claim that their patent covers podcasting because of what specifically?
Guest:So they have a patent that's particular claims on the patent that they claim cover what it's pretty technical, what they call a compilation file.
Guest:So basically it turns out to be anything on the web that
Guest:where it's hosted at a unique URL and updated with regular episodic media content.
Guest:So that's sort of it in a nutshell, and we've pointed out that that kind of thing existed on the web before they filed that patent.
Marc:So let me just ask you a question.
Marc:We asked for donations for you guys, and you needed, like, what, $30,000 or something?
Guest:Yeah, so...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So these things are really quite a lot of work.
Guest:And the filing fee alone is $23,000.
Guest:And so we put out a call to supporters to help us out.
Guest:And we asked for fundraising.
Guest:We asked for $33,000.
Guest:And really quickly, we raised over $70,000.
Guest:And so we were really grateful to the public and
Guest:to you and other podcasters that kind of put out the call for that.
Marc:Well, now this is awesome.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So now you had to look for something called Prior Art, which you also crowdsourced.
Marc:Do you want to tell me about that process a little bit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the idea is if the technology existed before the patent was filed, then it's not valid.
Guest:And so you have to look for publications that were from before October 2nd, 1996,
Guest:And we put up a page on Ask Patents asking people to submit ideas.
Guest:And we got over 100 submissions there, including some of the stuff that we've submitted in this petition.
Marc:Now, explain something to me just personally.
Marc:Now, they claim that this patent was registered in 1996.
Marc:But how does this process work?
Marc:So this was a guy, this Dave Logan guy, had some plans laying around for something other than podcasting.
Marc:Now, how does that become reintroduced?
Marc:Well, you can just take a patent and...
Marc:You can update it or what?
Guest:Yeah, it's a weird, it is a weird system.
Guest:So they filed a patent application on October 2nd, 96, and it was more directed to a personal audio player.
Guest:And later they decided, you know what, buried in there, maybe there's something about podcasting.
Guest:And so in 2009, they filed a new patent application and said, we invented podcasting.
Guest:But they're able to claim priority back to 96 because they're sort of using what's called the specification, which is the original filing from 96.
Marc:Okay, so now tell me what the best thing that can happen, because many of us are concerned about this, and obviously it seemed like a shakedown to us, and we were kind of hopeless, and we came together and we talked about it, and we were keeping up with what you guys were doing.
Marc:And obviously none of us could really afford to defend ourselves in court against this guy, which is really what they're banking on because they just want us to pay out.
Marc:Now, I know there's several cases in litigation now.
Marc:I believe one against Corolla, NBC, How Stuff Works, and a few others.
Marc:So now what's the best thing that can happen here?
Guest:So if we win the patent, the claims that they're asserting against the podcasters would get invalidated and they wouldn't be able to assert them anymore.
Guest:And the timeline for our case is about 18 months.
Guest:So it'll run parallel with the litigation.
Guest:Most likely the six lawsuits that are going on in Texas will go on at the same time.
Guest:And they'll go sort of independently.
Marc:Okay, so let's say that this re-exam works and they decide that the patent's no good.
Marc:So what happens to all the money spent by the people being sued or the people that have paid out?
Guest:Most likely they wouldn't get that money back if we were successful.
Guest:Usually people have to pay their own fees automatically.
Guest:It is possible to try and get the fees, but that's turned out usually pretty tough.
Marc:Yeah, but what if they were awarded, what if personal audio is awarded money in their lawsuit, and this turns out to be a bogus patent?
Marc:Don't they have to return that money anyways?
Guest:That gets complicated about what the conditions were, and often if it's a settlement, it'll sort of be permanent.
Guest:But...
Guest:But, you know, hopefully our case continues
Guest:will go a little faster than litigation.
Guest:Usually litigation is even slower than a petition at the patent office.
Marc:And tell me a little bit about what's happening within the system in the country, both politically and otherwise, in relation to this patent trolling business.
Marc:I mean, to predatory patent trolls.
Marc:It seems like there's a lot of attention on it.
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot going on right now.
Guest:There's actually seven bills pending in Congress that are...
Guest:almost all directed at trying to reduce the abusive patent litigation from trolls.
Guest:So some of them are trying to get a system where if the trolls lost the case, they'd have to pay the other side's fees.
Guest:Other proposals would make it harder for trolls to file really bare-bones lawsuits without actually explaining why the defendant really infringes the patent.
Guest:And taken together, these things could help.
Guest:We don't think it's really fundamental reform to the patent system, but
Guest:But we think they're definitely good steps, and there's attention from the White House, who's spoken up on this issue, and even both sides of politics.
Marc:Well, I would think so, just on both sides, not just the injustice of it or the sort of picking on the little guy, but on the conservative side, the basic attack against entrepreneurism is blatant.
Guest:Yeah, it's actually pretty interesting that the retail association, retailers like supermarkets are really up in arms about this stuff because they're getting sued for using like barcode scanners.
Guest:And this is technology they buy.
Guest:They don't create it.
Guest:And so it's really a strange part of the system that they're getting hauled into court for this.
Guest:And so that's resonating.
Marc:But what is that loophole?
Marc:I mean, that would be an end user, correct?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm an end user as well, correct?
Correct.
Guest:Yeah, well, I presume you didn't write the software that you do your podcast from yourself.
Marc:Is there any legislation being considered to protect the end user across the board?
Guest:Yeah, not really fundamental across the board.
Guest:Some of the reforms are hopefully going to allow that.
Guest:If the manufacturer intervened, the case against the end user would be stayed.
Guest:And that's good.
Guest:That would make it better in some cases.
Guest:I'll give you a quick example.
Guest:A bunch of cafes have been sued by a patent troll for providing wireless Wi-Fi to their customers.
Guest:On what basis?
Guest:Because the patent supposedly covers Wi-Fi, and these mom-and-pop cafes buy a Cisco router and put it in that cafe.
Guest:And
Guest:Suddenly they're getting threatened with federal litigation.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:And Cisco in that case has really stood up and wants to get involved and defend their customers.
Guest:But it's been really difficult.
Guest:And so the reform would help in those cases.
Guest:But sometimes the manufacturer would also just prefer to sit it out.
Guest:And so that's...
Marc:it's it's not offering full protection for the real sort of people who are buying off-the-shelf technology well look i was hoping that this call would uh you know make me uh excited and hopeful and uh and somewhat um uh pompously victorious but i'm not getting that from you daniel you're not providing early days on a campaign and you know we're
Guest:We're excited to be able to try and defend podcasting here, and we feel we've filed a good petition, but ultimately it'll be the patent office who decides, and we're also hopeful that there will be legislative reform.
Guest:I don't want to be too much of a downer.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, I'm going to stay in touch with you, and I expect to be informed immediately upon closure of this thing.
Marc:Yeah, we'll let you know.
Marc:Thank you, Daniel.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Marc:You're welcome.
Marc:Take care.
Marc:So so we'll see what happens.
Marc:It's very encouraging.
Marc:And again, I want to thank you guys for for really stepping up and donating to this cause, because it's important.
Marc:It's important for everybody.
Marc:It's important that we push these guys back.
Marc:And, you know, given that I don't talk about politics much, to be engaged in it on a personal level and have you guys support the cause was great.
Marc:Now let's talk to the lovely and charming Moon Zappa.
Marc:I don't know what happened there.
Marc:What went wrong?
Guest:Well, you had a girlfriend in the way.
Marc:Was that it?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:We should have fought harder.
Guest:Here's the thing about me.
Guest:I don't like fighting.
Guest:Libra.
Guest:I like it.
Marc:I'm a Libra.
Guest:Well, then do you see the problem?
Marc:Then you're not the right kind of Libra.
Marc:I think you're misinterpreting the... Well, I don't know about that.
Marc:What does the sort of challenge of finding balance require sometimes?
Guest:Battles.
Guest:I'm more the sting kind of a Libra where you set them free and if they come back to you, they're yours.
Marc:Yeah, he's not a real Libra.
Guest:He's an October Libra.
Marc:I'm a September Libra.
Marc:I'm a September Libra.
Marc:Virgo cusp Libra.
Marc:When's your birthday?
Guest:September 28th.
Marc:The day after mine?
Guest:This is ridiculous.
Marc:Did I already know that?
Guest:I don't think I knew it.
Guest:What does that mean for us?
Guest:I definitely would have fought harder.
Marc:Yeah, you should have.
Guest:We could have had the same- Why didn't you fight harder?
No.
Guest:Why is it always the lady's responsibility?
Marc:I think I was confused.
Marc:There was just too much juice, too much energy.
Guest:When you say juice, that's a euphemism for energy, not actual juice.
Marc:No, we weren't juicing then.
Marc:It was before juicing.
Marc:You were an extended cleanse?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, not then.
Marc:No, I just remember it being very intense.
Marc:I don't mean to bring this up.
Marc:I'm not trying to sandbag you.
Marc:We've all had a life, and we've moved on from that.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Sounds like only one of us has.
Wow.
Marc:Is that why you're here?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Is this an intervention of some kind?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:An emotional intervention?
Guest:Are you sure you want to go through with marriage?
Guest:I'm the divorce demon.
Guest:I've done that.
Guest:You did it too, right?
Guest:I'm still wrapping it up.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's horrendous.
Guest:What a horrendous... Takes a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Takes two people to get in and 11 to get out and all of your savings.
Marc:Yeah, that neither of you get.
Marc:That's exactly right.
Marc:You just give the savings to these people you don't know that have turned you even more against each other.
Guest:And they're constantly taking vacations.
Guest:Lawyers, they vacation about 30 times a year.
Marc:Or what's worse than vacations is like when you think things are done, you're like, all right, so we're all set.
Marc:Well, there's this other thing.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And you're like, what other thing?
Marc:The thing that disregards everything we've worked towards up to this point.
Marc:How much is that going to cost?
Marc:Well, just to file it.
Yeah.
Marc:right you know and you're like why does it cost so much to file something this seems ridiculous i know the amount of hate i had towards not only my ex-wife's lawyer but to my own yeah absolutely because you don't know unless you've been divorced twice or unless you have a fortune you have no idea the process at every turn you're like all right we're done and not quite because they could just do this again yeah well how do you stop it someone's got to give up
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like a Greek or Roman myth.
Guest:Horrendous.
Guest:It just keeps unfolding.
Guest:Horrendous.
Guest:There's all kinds of life lessons.
Guest:I think cancer would be easier because there's things you could actually do.
Guest:You can cut things out.
Guest:You can change your diet.
Guest:There's stuff you can do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like an endurance game.
Guest:It's a race that you don't know where it's going to end.
Marc:I'll tell you where it's going to end.
Marc:Whoever has more money is going to eventually go...
Marc:All right, what do we do to stop this?
Marc:How much is it going to cost at this point to stop this?
Marc:That's what's going to happen.
Marc:Whoever has the money will say, what do you need?
Guest:Guarantee it.
Marc:I guarantee that's what's going to happen.
Marc:And how many kids do you have?
Marc:One.
Marc:How's that kid turning out?
Guest:Oh, she seems to be handling things beautifully.
Marc:Yeah, she's okay with everything.
Marc:How old is she?
Guest:She's eight.
Guest:She has a therapist.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:She didn't have one before this.
Guest:Does she really have a therapist?
Guest:It's a just-in-case preventative kind of thing.
Guest:A preventative therapy?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:You want her to have that relationship in her life when mommy and daddy can't cut it anymore?
Marc:I do think so.
Marc:What did your therapist say, honey?
Marc:She's nine.
Guest:Is that the kind of questions you're asking an eight-year-old?
Guest:A little, I think.
Okay.
Guest:Do you go to therapy with your eight year old?
Guest:I do.
Guest:What is that like?
Guest:Well, it's play therapy.
Guest:So you kind of like interpret the game that she's playing and kind of dismantle that and then have to translate it.
Guest:It's like almost like, I don't know if you've ever followed a guru, but like the guru might walk past and might glance at you and you're like, I think it means, and then you fill in the blank.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So it's all speculative and probably bullshit.
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Probably.
Marc:And it's very expensive, so it seems like it's- Of course it is.
Marc:Why wouldn't they tap you for that?
Marc:I mean, if you're silly enough to do that- Yeah, I know.
Marc:No, I'm judging.
Guest:It's probably great.
Guest:Please judge.
Guest:I'm judging it.
Marc:You are?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:How long has she been in therapy?
Guest:I would say about a year.
Marc:I went to therapy when I was young, but not eight, but I remember being brought to a guy.
Marc:There was a lot of games in the room.
Marc:So you play a game, and then you assess your kid's behavior with the doctor.
Marc:And then you look at the doctor and go, what?
Marc:And the doctor goes, well, what's your kid's name?
Marc:Matilda.
Marc:Matilda, why did you throw the piece?
Marc:That kind of thing?
Guest:No, in her particular case, she is she has a like she like two weeks after something happens, then she'll have a seemingly unrelated upset.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:So she's a stuffer.
Guest:And she also has a lot of digestive things that happen as a result of stuffing things, possibly emotionally not being able to digest what's going on.
Marc:Is that a thing?
Marc:It's a thing.
Marc:Because I'm having some digestive issues.
Marc:No.
Marc:That can happen because of your brain?
Guest:Are things coming too fast and too furious for you?
Marc:Are you asking if I have diarrhea?
Marc:Are you being kind?
Guest:No, I mean, like, are things, are you trying to?
Marc:Yes, it's been a difficult time.
Marc:It's been a very overwhelming few months.
Marc:Yeah, so are you saying that maybe that's it?
Marc:Yes, I am.
Guest:wow and their therapist told you this the expensive one that talks to you about your kid all right so this is good i'm just getting therapy by proxy then um then i took her to a guy uh who he's an osteopath and uh that's a whole other world that's some outstanding so they do a combination of like eastern western and then some witchcraft kind of stuff it's pretty cool that's always good when that's on the when they have a diploma for witchcraft from the crowley school exactly you're really good yeah
Guest:You're covering all the options.
Guest:And he noticed that she needed to.
Guest:He said, did she did she did she do any crawling before she walked or did she just like jump into walking?
Guest:I was like, oh, she kind of did leap into walking.
Guest:Yeah, I got to go back and redo those those crawling stages.
Marc:So now you got to make your eight year old crawl.
Guest:She lies on the floor.
Guest:I do it with her because I'm sure I had to leap to stand and run too.
Guest:And it does some cross patterning with your brain.
Guest:So then you're lying on the floor and you're doing right leg, right arm, left leg, left arm.
Guest:And then you do the cross patterning version.
Guest:And then it's supposed to like reset your parasympathetic nervous system and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Marc:This sounds very clinical.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It sounded like real medicine.
Marc:Yeah, it almost does.
Marc:Do you do this on a mat?
Marc:Do you go to the yoga studio and do this with the kid?
Guest:You can do it anywhere.
Guest:I'm really into behaving like a child in public.
Guest:I think it's super fun.
Guest:Because I just marvel.
Guest:I just want to lick every surface.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I missed out on all this stuff.
Guest:Like my father, he had a bit of a reputation.
Guest:As?
Guest:As a little bit, you know, eccentric.
Guest:And I did not cash in on the eccentricity chip.
Guest:Are you kidding?
Guest:I'll look for it.
Guest:I don't think I did.
Guest:You don't think you're eccentric?
Guest:Well, I'm starting to think it.
Marc:You're taking your kid to witch doctors and crawling around with your eight-year-old.
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:That's just average person behavior?
Marc:Is that not?
Guest:No, that's a mixture of eccentric and too much free time on your hands.
Yeah.
Guest:I felt like I researched things pretty thoroughly.
Marc:Yeah, but research doesn't mean anything's true.
Marc:I mean, I can go on the internet too and be like, oh, this is substantiated by another fucking idiot.
Marc:So I guess it's real.
Marc:I'm going to go yelp my witch doctor.
Guest:I think everything else is easy.
Guest:Being in relation with other.
Guest:Parenting easier.
Marc:What about the whole marrying a musician business?
Marc:What about it?
Marc:You could have yet a world of men to choose from if you married a musician.
Guest:Are you saying I made a bad choice?
Guest:Are you saying something about musicians?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I'm saying both of those things.
Guest:You have a lot of listeners and I'm thinking a lot of them are musicians.
Guest:They know who they are.
Guest:They know what I'm talking about.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:You could have married a comedian.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, I'm not judging a musician.
Marc:I just, I think it's interesting, don't you?
Marc:Don't you, Moon?
Marc:Isn't it interesting?
Guest:Well, I avoided it for as long as possible.
Marc:The musicians?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and you know what's weird?
Guest:He never played music in the house.
Marc:Well, that's an indicator.
Guest:Of?
Marc:Of, like, what was he doing?
Marc:He wasn't doing dishes.
Marc:He wasn't playing music.
Marc:What the fuck was he doing?
Guest:I don't have an answer for you.
Marc:You never played music in the house.
Marc:He was shy.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But see, he was the drummer, right?
Marc:But then he plays every instrument.
Marc:Oh, he's one of those guys.
Marc:A wizard.
Marc:Super talented.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:I did meet him.
Guest:Can I say that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I think he's a nice guy, too.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Do you want to move on?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is the second time I've seen mime like that in this room.
Marc:I'm trying to remember what the first one was.
Marc:Similar situation.
Marc:Actually, it's Pamela Adalon.
Guest:It's similar mime off mic.
Marc:And it's a more topic.
Marc:All right, so what are you doing?
Marc:I mean, the last time I saw you, I think there was yoga in the discussion.
Marc:Oh, because that guy asked me to come to his yoga studio.
Guest:I never went.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:I never went.
Guest:I'm sure they'd still invite you.
Marc:You do?
Guest:I'm sure of it.
Marc:Like if I emailed him two years later?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Is this still an open invitation?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Because I think I'm back in.
Guest:You should do it.
Marc:I exercised twice last week for the first time in a long time.
Marc:I'm eating better.
Marc:But do they have the flow kind, the power kind?
Marc:They have all of it.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Where I can hurt myself possibly doing yoga?
Marc:That's the kind of yoga I like to do, where it's dangerous.
Guest:Really?
Marc:It's not meditative.
Marc:It's more... It's just pure risk.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, like I think I can do that.
Marc:Nope, nope.
Marc:Now I can't walk.
Guest:Surprisingly, I think it's way harder for, and I'm going to put you in this category, people like us to do a restorative class.
Marc:Right, because we're anxious or panicky or impatient, aggravated.
Guest:Yes, I think lying still in corpse pose, shavasana, is possibly one of the most challenging things a person can do.
Guest:Because the mind is just free.
Guest:It's just untethered at that point.
Marc:Yeah, it's horrendous to have an untethered mind.
Guest:In a public setting.
Marc:Mine always goes to, like, my mind.
Marc:Who can I hurt with this mind?
Marc:My mind is untethered and wants to hit somebody.
Marc:Where could I throw my mind at?
Marc:And usually in that situation, it's a yoga teacher.
Marc:I'm like, why am I paying for whatever didn't work out for you?
Marc:Why am I seeing this as spiritual when you clearly, things didn't happen for you?
Marc:You ended up here.
Marc:This was not a life choice.
Guest:No one chooses yoga.
Guest:You come to it on your knees.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's either yoga or Jesus.
Guest:Well, I'm right on track.
Guest:I always think about it.
Guest:You're thinking about it takes 10 years to become an overnight sensation.
Marc:I've upped that to 20.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I've had to adjust that joke.
Guest:Or a bitter asshole.
Guest:It makes me laugh every time.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think about it a lot.
Guest:Are you teaching yoga?
Guest:I'm not teaching.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:I just did the training, but I'm not teaching it.
Guest:You did do the training?
Guest:Yeah, I did the training, and my sister's in the training now, because what I'd like to do is open up a Zappa yoga studio.
Guest:Wouldn't you take some Zappa yoga?
Guest:I would.
Guest:Zappa yoga?
Guest:It's catchy, man.
Guest:And fuck half of your dad's more obscure records you could use as fucking yoga music.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Guest:Enjoy.
Guest:That would be super relaxing.
Guest:How about a flow class to some of that crazy shit?
Guest:Yeah, to do a half hour guitar solo.
Guest:we're gonna flow to like what some obscure titled record part three shut up and do your yoga the third disc good i think that's a great idea i'm on i'm on board can i get in on the ground level of zappa yoga yeah because i still i have to still complete some of my hours so i can come over and we can just do a swap you have to do flight hours
Guest:Well, you have to do all your hours to get your official certification.
Guest:Your practice hours.
Marc:It's therapy.
Marc:It's almost like to become a therapist.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Is there a board that oversees this?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And it's a real thing?
Guest:Well, yes.
Marc:As real as a yoga board could be?
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Who are these people?
Guest:Why don't you start a comic board or something?
Guest:We've tried.
Marc:There's no wrangling those fuckers.
Marc:Are you sure?
Marc:I'm positive.
Guest:Did you Libra give up on this?
Guest:What's going on?
Marc:What does Libra give up mean?
Guest:Well, we started off with talking about... No, I know, but is that a thing?
Guest:Libra give up?
Guest:Just now, TM.
Marc:That and Zappa Yoga, which I'm sure you TM'd already.
Guest:It's TM.
Marc:It is?
Marc:Did you TM it?
Marc:You better before some weird Zappa cousin... Do you know how hard my mother would come after that?
Guest:My mother has a reputation for... She would harm you if you tried to do something with Zappa.
Guest:Not you, but a person.
Marc:Libra give up.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:I think that like why do you have experience with giving up?
Guest:Well I don't view it as giving up.
Guest:I view it as coming to a good solid conclusion about not continuing a thing that would eventually waste my time.
Marc:So that's Libra rationalizing.
Marc:Which is a reframing of Libra give up.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:But do you do that?
Marc:Do you exhaust yourself and like you know like I got an idea and like yeah.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I'm going to have to go outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm going to have to drive to the place.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Believe me.
Marc:Believe me.
Marc:How many hours shy are you of your yoga license?
Guest:Only 24.
Guest:You have to do 25.
Guest:I'm only 24 shy.
Marc:You've only done one hour?
Guest:Whatever.
Marc:So you took the classes?
Marc:I'm curious, because I don't know how long this shit's going to fly.
Marc:Because I have a yoga instructor, Joe, who teaches yoga.
Marc:But he's a little heavyset, but he does a power yoga class at the Y in Hollywood, and I used to go every Sunday.
Marc:And I just wonder what he had to go through to become a master.
Guest:What had to fall away?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Cause he was great.
Marc:Cause he would play Pink Floyd.
Marc:He plays some Zeppelin sometimes, like depending on how aggravated he was.
Marc:There were actual yoga classes that I would go to where you'd be like, I think I'm getting a bad feeling.
Marc:Like, you know, like I think whatever Joe's going through is infusing into my being and I'm now aggravated for whatever didn't work out for Joe.
Guest:Well, I think yoga teachers, the best of them, are their own unconditional best friend.
Guest:And so they are a work in progress.
Guest:I mean, I don't really trust people that are just natural yogis because they don't really have anything to really teach somebody.
Guest:I like somebody who's been through hell.
Guest:Maybe they had a drinking problem.
Marc:A drinking problem.
Guest:Everything is collapsed.
Guest:Two failed marriages.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:And then they're still smiling.
Guest:Like, those are the people I enjoy.
Marc:Smiling with, you know, I call it.
Guest:With a base of venom.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The hate smile.
Marc:The hate smile.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, I have an aggressive peace of mind.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:But wait, so how does it work for you though?
Marc:I mean, is there a spiritual component to it or are you just looking to sweat and make people do things?
Guest:The only way I can calm my mind is to exhaust myself in every conceivable way.
Guest:And then it shuts the factory down.
Marc:Is that what yoga is?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Is that really the idea?
Guest:For me, yes.
Guest:Oh, for you.
Guest:You're breathing at the same time that you're moving, at the same time that your mind is focusing.
Guest:So after you've done it, it's outstanding.
Guest:You have three seconds of relief, and then you've got to probably take another class.
Guest:But still, for those three poignant, remarkable seconds, it's worth it.
Marc:You better appreciate it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's going to go quick.
Marc:It's only a few seconds.
Guest:That was a great class.
Guest:But the idea is that you keep, if you're trying to make changes, that you keep adding the good thing.
Guest:And little by little, the crappy things fall away.
Guest:Like if a baby is distracted with, say, your car keys or a little thing of rat poison, you'd hand them a shiny object to take the thing out of their hand, for example.
Marc:The rat poison.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the car key is not so dangerous.
Guest:Well.
Marc:My kid's not going to drive away at that age, you wouldn't think.
Guest:Do you have a kid?
Guest:I don't have one.
Guest:This is your future kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It would not, you're certain, your future child.
Marc:My future infant would not take the keys and figure out how to drive.
Marc:If he did that, I would be like, my life is made.
Marc:I've got a wizard kid.
Marc:Well.
Marc:And let's start using him as a money funnel.
Marc:Well.
Marc:Look what my kid can do.
Guest:Oh, I would love to see you as like a stage dad.
Guest:That'd be awesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It would be.
Guest:Where you just surrender your own career, just driving your wonder kid around.
Marc:Yeah, the wonder kid.
Marc:Who's more genius than me and everything.
Guest:To put that child through.
Guest:Have you been on auditions?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, so that child keeps going, but then, you know, having a great time.
Marc:I'd rather him be a prodigy, a prodigy kid.
Marc:You know, like I don't want to give him baby food commercials.
Marc:I want him to sort of like crawl into the garage and see that guitar right there and just pick it up and do that.
Guest:It could happen.
Marc:No, that does happen.
Marc:I know, it does.
Marc:What is with those fucking kids?
Marc:Your brothers weren't like that.
Marc:Ahmed, he worked hard to do Dweezil.
Guest:Dweezil's a little like that.
Guest:Is he really?
Marc:From the very beginning?
Marc:Sounds like he worked really hard to be a great guitar player.
Guest:He did work really hard.
Guest:Yeah, no, he was a bit of a social outcast.
Guest:What's the other one doing?
Marc:The one who had the shaved head all the time.
Guest:He's a producer and he writes movies.
Guest:He also was a toy maker and he writes children's books.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Popular children's books?
Guest:well i don't know i don't pay attention what do you mean by popular like standards i guess so read them this is your brother you can tell me that the zappa clan is not in touch with the other ones well what ish come on adjacent now what do you don't you live on a compound no i wish that is there a zappa i've always wanted one well that my mother's house is as big as a compound
Guest:She lives in the original house?
Guest:Yeah, it's like Grey Gardens over there.
Guest:My mom and my sister live there.
Marc:Would Diva live with your mother in what, Laurel Canyon or somewhere?
Marc:In the original hippie weird house?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And the house has been under construction since 1969 without ceasing.
Guest:They're still working on your dad's studio?
Guest:My mother's like, let's move a wall.
Guest:Let's add a window.
Guest:I want to do that.
Guest:What about a skylight?
Guest:She just keeps going.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:It's outstanding.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so she lives over there.
Guest:Like this room, she could turn this into four rooms, a kitchen and a bathroom.
Guest:And it would go up, and she'd probably do something in the basement that doesn't exist.
Guest:There's no basement.
Guest:I know, I know.
Marc:I think skunks live in the ground under this.
Guest:Well, not after she's through with this place.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's a constant remaker of things?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:She cannot... She just keeps adding on up there?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Is it weird?
Uh-huh.
Guest:Well, again, if this were a therapy, and I was looking at her mind in terms of how she constructs things, she's always making new pathways, so making new connections.
Guest:She just keeps trying to outrun the past and then keep building onto it at the same time.
Marc:You can't outrun the past if you're in the same fucking house.
Marc:I think I should write that down.
Marc:It's like an adage.
Marc:You can't outrun the past if you're in the same fucking house.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you grew up in that house.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's talk about that.
Marc:Let's talk about... Listen to me.
Guest:Talk a little bit about that.
Guest:Talk a little bit about that.
Guest:When things were getting really bad, I said to her, if things get really bad, can I come move back in the house during the divorce?
Guest:And she said, well...
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Too many breaks and pauses.
Guest:And then she goes, it is my time to have parties.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how old's your mom?
Guest:She's born in 45.
Guest:So what is that?
Marc:Older.
Guest:Older than us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's.
Guest:I was trying to get a reality show off the ground with me and Diva and my mom, like a dating show.
Guest:Because Diva is like a spinster.
Guest:I guess I'm kind of supposed to be like a cougar.
Guest:And then my mom would be like a saber tooth.
Guest:She's 68 years old.
Guest:You're giving me great ideas for her next gifts, though.
Guest:I'm going to get her a bus pass.
Guest:I'm going to get her the stuff at the zoo.
Guest:They can go for free, right?
Marc:So what, your mom's having parties, dating?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Senior citizens get great movie rates, too, right?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:They can do whatever they want.
Marc:Yeah, but you don't need to go to the movies.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I want to talk about...
Marc:I want to talk about Laurel Canyon in the 70s.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Who are we going to call to discuss it?
Guest:Well, you were a kid.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I was a kid.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Are you bothered by this conversation?
Guest:No, I'm just saying I don't know if I can answer your questions because I was a child.
Guest:What are your first memories?
Guest:Well, one story I have is about my mom would hitchhike with me to the Canyon store.
Guest:She'd be barefoot.
Guest:That one store on Laurel Canyon Boulevard?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'd go for Winston cigarettes for my dad and maybe some milk for- Winston's.
Guest:He smoked Winston's?
Guest:The tea in my baby bottle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Things like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And apparently somebody was trying to pick my mom up and I think I had my frilly underwear on my head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fashion statement.
Guest:You still do that sometimes, right?
Guest:I think I do.
Guest:And I guess I ended up saying to this stranger, fuck off, pervert.
Guest:And she thought it was just charming.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:It's a family story.
Marc:Two, I think.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Fuck off, pervert.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a great story.
Marc:And that story was like the only story there then.
Marc:It still kind of is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just I'm sort of fascinated that you because I know you a long time.
Marc:We've never talked about this.
Marc:No.
Marc:I think this is the stuff that really needs to come out of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That really fix whatever went wrong.
Guest:Wait, wait, why do you think something went wrong?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Look at yourself.
Guest:Okay, what do you mean?
Marc:You're trying to be a yoga instructor.
Guest:No, I'm not trying to be a yoga instructor.
Guest:I did the teacher's training.
Guest:That was just me just checking in.
Guest:I like to check out a bunch of things.
Guest:Nothing went wrong.
Guest:You're doing great.
Guest:I'm doing great.
Guest:I'm not broken.
Guest:You're not broken.
Marc:I'm not either.
Marc:That's what people don't understand about us.
Guest:What if this is fixed?
Marc:What?
Guest:What if I'm the representative of what fixed looks like?
Guest:What if this is like flourishing?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Everyone else is on the wrong track.
Marc:You are perfect.
Marc:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:I think you should say that as much as possible.
Guest:I don't think you're broken.
Guest:What does broken mean?
Guest:You'd have to compare yourself to something else is what you'd have to do, which I'm not interested in doing anymore.
Guest:I think, well, let's see.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But I think broken for me means like, hey, I should be capable of handling this simple situation.
Marc:And I'm not.
Guest:Other adults seem to be able to handle the situation.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:First of all, do you really even know any adults?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You do?
Marc:I do.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're not happy.
Marc:They put a lot of time into sort of championing the idea that they're responsible and that they're owning up to their responsibilities and they're doing the thing.
Marc:But you look inside of them for a brief second and you just see, help me.
Marc:It was a great characterization of an adult, but it's not really.
Marc:But did you see Silver Linings Playbook?
Guest:I didn't see it.
Guest:I heard it was really good.
Marc:His friend.
Marc:Did you see it, Tracy?
Marc:You know, the friend.
Marc:It's like that guy who's like a Metallica.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You know that there's something teeming inside of adults.
Marc:But I don't know that that freedom and choosing your own path and all that stuff.
Marc:That's it's not that it's overrated, but it's difficult.
Marc:hmm come on well you are you saying are you are you is that a pro being an adult or against being an adult there are some things i wish i could handle like i'd like to move you know perhaps buy a home another home i didn't know how to buy this one when i bought it and i'm still not clear about the numbers of everything like you know like how do mortgages work am i getting fucked somehow like things that adults sit down and they manage
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:I think you just assume, yes, you're getting fucked at all times.
Guest:So it's really, it's getting fucked over management.
Guest:So it's just managing your anxiety about getting fucked over.
Guest:I just have to assume the worst.
Guest:That's how I can feel safe.
Marc:Yeah, I do that too, but how is that a way to go through life?
Marc:Like, okay, I'll just think the worst is happening and then if anything better than that happens, it's a good day.
Marc:So that means, you know what that means?
Marc:You're clinically negative.
Marc:so you're saying like it's a bad thing you just see it as being like no I'm a realist that's right things are bad yeah I'm just having a slight reprieve right now because I'm not thinking about it when was the last time you made like a five year plan for yourself a five year plan how about a tomorrow plan
Marc:How about like, you know, what's on my schedule?
Guest:But you could do like a checklist.
Guest:Like, are my choices in alignment with my five-year plan?
Guest:Have you made a five-year plan?
Guest:No, I'm just, I'm going to make one this week.
Guest:I'm going to vision board and make a five-year plan.
Guest:Vision board?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:What's a vision board?
Guest:You know where you take pictures from a magazine and you create your future.
Guest:Oh, that's a vision board?
Guest:Yes, collaging.
Guest:Teenage girls do?
Guest:Yes, I'm going to do that this week.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'm going to make the five-year plan.
Guest:I'm going to vision board.
Guest:Are you painting or drawing or anything?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I'm doing it all.
Guest:Did you paint this morning?
Guest:I didn't paint this morning.
Guest:You do paint, though.
Guest:But I was so creative with how I made my tea.
Guest:It was pretty spectacular.
Guest:Just making art everywhere.
Guest:I made my bed beautifully.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You make your bed every day?
Guest:Well, I'm trying this new pillow arrangement.
Guest:How many pillows do you have?
Guest:Like about 100.
Guest:I love pillows.
Guest:I have a weakness for bedding.
Guest:If I, if I, when I, when I overspend, I'll overspend on jelly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I will overspend and I'll like, I get it too much.
Guest:How much can you really overspend on jelly?
Guest:I'm really on an apple butter kick right now.
Marc:Apple butter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm on an apple butter kick and I found the greatest apple butter.
Guest:And when I went to share, I can't remember the name of it.
Guest:It's at Bristol farms and it's an, it's a delicious apple butter.
Guest:And when I went back to go at, cause after my research of apple butters, I was like, this is the one and then they were out of it.
Marc:So you did research on apple butter.
Guest:Well, what I mean by research is I ate a lot of apple butter.
Marc:But you're like, I just discovered apple butter.
Marc:I need to know more about it.
Guest:I didn't do that kind of research.
Guest:I did like, I need, I like this apple butter.
Guest:I'm going to taste a bunch of different kinds of apple butters and then I'm going to decide which one I'm going to overstock my pantry with.
Marc:But apple butter, in my recollection, is just very fine applesauce.
Guest:It's like a thicker, heartier applesauce.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do you put this on?
Guest:Gluten-free toast.
Marc:Gluten-free toast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or just put it on a spoon.
Guest:And just eat it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I go through a lot of spoons because I'll be like, I just want one spoonful and then I don't want to double dip because that's creepy.
Yeah.
Guest:It's creepy in your own house?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you think you're- Well, what if I have a guest come over and I know that I've double dipped in my own apple butter?
Guest:That's gross.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:What do you- I don't want to- What's in your mouth?
Guest:Well, that makes me nervous to eat any of your food.
Marc:What are you talking about?
Marc:You think that anything in my house that my mouth has touched is somehow going to do what?
Marc:What do you think is what?
Guest:That's a good question.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I should have gone deeper.
Guest:You're right, Mark.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Go further.
Guest:Don't just stop at one anxiety.
Guest:Go all the way.
Guest:Go all the way.
Guest:I think we'll fall in love.
Guest:That's what I'm afraid of.
Marc:Oh, that happened years ago.
Guest:And then we'll die.
Guest:No.
Marc:The apple butter thing, though.
Marc:All right, so you spend too much money on apple butter.
Marc:And what was the other thing?
Guest:Bedding.
Marc:Okay, tell me about bedding.
Guest:Oh, I love a good down pillow or a duvet.
Marc:What about sheets, the count?
Guest:The thread count, yeah.
Marc:Do you like to slide around on your sheets?
Guest:I went out with a German man many years ago and I'm all about the fitted sheet.
Marc:This doesn't end in poop, does it?
Guest:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And he would only use the fitted sheet and then a duvet cover and then two pillows that would be flat.
Guest:And I was like, that is very, very- Utilitarian?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I kind of got a little crush on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it was simple.
Marc:It's like, how do you keep your life so uncomplicated?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:The discipline involved.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's why I'm going to just commit to apple butter and those two pillows and that one fitted sheet.
Marc:That's all you need.
Marc:It's like that.
Marc:I don't know if you've ever moved, but you know when everything's out but your bed and you're like, why am I not living like this?
Marc:This is like so peaceful and great.
Marc:I don't miss any of this shit.
Guest:I might just move a coffin in.
Guest:Like vampires have it right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just have a coffin.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:yeah that's it no i think that's good yeah and you know that's sort of favorite coffee mug but besides that i'm gonna give you a mug i think oh sweet yeah you like mugs i do all right so bedding and pottery oh i will i will stop if there's any like if there's tents and there's like a um a crafts fair yeah i will i will break so hard why what stopped you from uh doing that i did do that i tried it did you have a wheel
Guest:I took pottery classes, and I'm terrible at it.
Guest:I kept trying the wheel classes.
Guest:It's very, very... I mean, it's very confronting.
Guest:You'll really find out about yourself trying karaoke, pottery, and any movement.
Marc:Trying to get that thing when it's spinning into the shape, and then pieces start flying off.
Guest:Because your personality is always...
Guest:there yeah and so like if you just oh it's fascinating and the whole thing can go to crap right when you got it right and then it's your reaction karaoke it's awesome you have a problem with karaoke I'm just saying these are the ways to really get to the heart of things like if you're if you don't have enough money for therapy go take I'm terrified of karaoke that's what I'm saying yeah it's very confronting but I find out everything about yourself do you look up are you like embracing the crowd like what's your stick what's your thing you just kind of like get a sense of yourself I finally sang in public a couple years ago and playing the guitar and I did okay
Marc:did you have to wear an adult diaper no i don't do that no i don't poop when i'm nervous you don't i sweat a bit sometimes okay like as soon as i put a guitar on i'm covered in sweat if i'm in front of people not in here but if i put guitar on in public i'm sweating almost immediately and when you're in here are you also on a giant stadium stage too at the same time or what's happening no usually i'm just sitting in with some of the best uh-huh
Guest:Who's in the room with you, in your mind?
Marc:Well, whoever I'm playing to.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It's usually kind of blues guys, because I don't listen to blues music a lot, but I'll play with it.
Marc:I find it very satisfying.
Marc:I tend to play a lot with... Like Memphis style or...
Marc:no probably chicago style i play a lot with the original fleetwood mac when it was a blues band peter green i like peter green you know he's uh british i'm i'm assuming i'm gonna make him jewish okay british jews but british jewish blues player the fabulous thunderbirds i'll play with sometimes um i i'm working on um i'll play what do i play with uh yeah those guys any modern stuff
Marc:modern do i play with modern people yeah like bjork or um i don't even understand that shit okay i don't understand a lot of it it's all very complicated i like to keep it simple like your dad stuff i can't wrap my brain around that can you nope
Marc:I went through a bunch of CDs that I took to Amoeba yesterday, and the first Mother's album was in there.
Guest:Some 15 or 12-year-old is going to have an unbelievable time.
Marc:No, I have carried his music around for years, and I listen to it, and I'm just not ready.
Marc:Like Captain Beefheart, that was another one.
Marc:I'm actually doing a bit on stage about it.
Marc:what are you talking about well i just i started getting into vinyl again so i got a bunch of fucking records and like some for some reason i've beef heart has been hanging over me for my entire life i'm like maybe i'm ready that kind of shit yeah yeah and uh and i listen to it and i get it but i don't know if i'm gonna go back to it there's did you know that guy
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He came to the house.
Guest:One of my favorite memories of him is I came to the house and he had hit a new hole in his nose that he just made with a pencil, sharpened pencil.
Guest:And he closed the nostril and he could whistle out of it.
Guest:He made a little nose flute himself.
Guest:Did he come excited?
Guest:Is that the reason why he came to the house?
Guest:Well, his version of excited was, he was pretty slow moving.
Guest:What was his real name?
Guest:Don Van Vliet.
Guest:Don Van Vliet.
Guest:And his nose whistle?
Guest:And his nose whistle.
Guest:So he came over and he's like, I got something.
Guest:Yeah, he had that to show me.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Uncle Captain Beefheart showed me his nose whistle.
Guest:Did you have to call him Captain Beefheart?
Guest:I think I just, I don't think I even called him anything.
Guest:I think I just did.
Guest:That's a guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dad's friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was probably six.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Maybe younger.
Guest:Do you have good memories of all those freaks?
Guest:When you say good memories, what do you mean?
Guest:I mean, like... Did anyone touch me in the bad way?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:Do I... Yeah, I mean, there were some funny things that happened in the house.
Guest:Definitely.
Marc:I'm trying to think of another... There's a sort of clowning element to the whole fucking undertaking of the mothers and all those guys, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, beneath the... You know, on top of this amazing music and this, like, weird anal kind of creativity, there were fucking...
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, there were a lot of clowns.
Guest:So there was the animator, Bruce Bickford, in the basement with all the his beard had little rubber bands in his beard.
Guest:And he would be again, a lot of slow moving people.
Guest:Very, very.
Guest:Why were they?
Guest:Are you talking about like they were some different breed of person?
Guest:They are a different breed of person.
Guest:They were fucking nerds.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Extreme nerds, I would say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why was the animator in the basement?
Guest:He was working on some animation.
Guest:But it takes a long time, so he'd have to move.
Marc:Back then it did, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You mean like clay shit?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Obviously, he was making models, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For your dad.
Guest:And then click with the thing, and then...
Marc:This was just going on and music was going on elsewhere.
Guest:Yeah, uh-huh.
Guest:And I remember Eric Bogosian doing something in the basement and hearing some creepy story about a homeless man giving blowjobs.
Guest:I was like, wait, men can give blowjobs to other men?
Marc:That's where you learned that?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:From Eric Bogosian's voice coming out of your basement.
Guest:Yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Guest:Not just men, but like a toothless, old, homeless man.
Guest:And then I was marveling, like, who would have that for themselves?
Guest:Who's getting that thing?
Guest:So even if a man is doing, who's then, how did that arrangement happen?
Guest:So there's a lot, like, too much information too soon, and just trying to dismantle it in therapy for many, many years after.
Marc:Maybe you should call Boghossian and just get to the source.
Marc:And he'll tell you, that was some guy made up for fun.
Marc:Why was he at your house?
Marc:He was just hanging around?
Guest:He was working with Frank or something, yeah.
Marc:Did you call him Frank?
Guest:It was Frank and Gail, yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like every family.
Guest:No?
Guest:No?
Guest:It's good to have that distance.
Marc:It's better to be on a first name basis than to assume parental roles or child roles.
Marc:It's nice that everyone's just growing up together as opposed to sort of doing family things.
Marc:Frank's busy.
Marc:Gail's doing something.
Marc:I guess I'll just go listen to Captain Beefheart play his nose whistle.
Marc:I have to assume...
Guest:just by the sheer volume of shit frank turned out that he was always busy in the studio yeah you're right yeah he was he was not doing a lot of parenting surprisingly um did he go out there aggravated like yeah i don't know he never raised his voice he was this he was a soft but he was like spock in that way like spock and jesus had a baby it'd be frank zappa frank zappa
Guest:yeah i think a lot of zappa heads are like exactly that is so exactly right you're right yeah super super logical and so funny just so funny like he unfortunately he really set the bar high and so i have no respect for any man except for you oh that was a good catch yeah well yeah funny how like how was he funny
Guest:He just he just was just deadpan deadpan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You like interviewers would really struggle because they'd be like, were you feeling this?
Guest:And did you do this?
Guest:And how is this?
Guest:He'd say, no, he just answered that, like, whatever the bottom line, common denominator answer.
Guest:Like, he just cut to the chase.
Guest:He just he didn't give anybody anything extra.
Guest:yeah he just he really conserved his energy was it really interesting well some musicians do that you know just why did they don't have to talk it's like shut up and listen to the thing it's true and what i find really interesting i think musicians are more interesting to talk to than actors for example actors that's a wow that is a that of course well i know but you see there who gets interviewed on all the talk shows actors that's ridiculous
Marc:No, believe me, I've talked to my share of actors and some of them, if you keep it around craft and around who they are, but it gets a little tricky when you just want to talk.
Marc:Any life experience at all?
Marc:Anything?
Marc:I find that when an actor stops talking, there's a lot and nothing going on.
Marc:They stop talking and you're like,
Marc:Okay, I better, hi, are we still here?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:And I don't want to be rude, because I've had, some actors now, I think they get savvy is what happens, is that if they get enough practice talking as themselves, sometimes they can manage it for about an hour.
Marc:But the trick with musicians, though, is that, just from my experience talking to them here,
Marc:Is that if they volunteer to sit for an hour, then they want to talk.
Marc:But the trick is, it's like, who am I talking to?
Marc:Am I talking to your idea of yourself that you've committed to in order to move through the public conception of you?
Marc:Or are we going to talk to a person here?
Marc:Is there a struggle between those two?
Marc:And some of them, they're very integrated.
Marc:You're like, I really believe you're this guy.
Yeah.
Marc:And then occasionally, usually with the older musicians that have nothing to lose anymore, you're like, oh, see, there's a dude that's been through some shit, and we can talk about it.
Marc:But I had a tricky time with Nick Cave in here.
Marc:Yeah, that was a little difficult.
Marc:It took a while.
Marc:And I sense that he knew that I was struggling, and he knew that... I got the sense after the interview that he knew, like, yeah, I know, it's difficult.
Marc:I understand what you went through, but I got to go.
Marc:That's what I do.
Marc:No, you know, they don't have to be forthcoming because all the music speaks for themselves.
Guest:I'm wondering who else was on that list of people you were talking to.
Marc:Oh, I talked to John Cale recently.
Marc:I talked to Tom York.
Guest:Are these people that you have some admiration for across the board?
Guest:How are you picking the music people?
Marc:uh sometimes they come to me because i i seem to do well with them so uh some publicists are like will you talk to my guy and i'm like i guess like the guys from blues travelers came up somehow and they're like you want to talk to blues travel i'm like yeah i'd like to see that guy play harmonica in my house he did he played harmonica in my house that's awesome yeah and they're all you know they're they're fun they're fun guys most of the time it's it's pretty i talked to jay mascus but it turned out
Marc:that you know he wanted to do the show it wasn't like he didn't have to do the show none of them have to do it so like he you know and he's a very quiet dude and he's not forthcoming and he talks you know with single answers but he wanted to do it so i had to figure out like well he wants to be here i'm just going to keep pushing and eventually he you know he did kind of pop open and and dinosaur junior fans around the world rejoice who's uh who's somebody that you that you are desperate to to talk to that you don't have access to yet
Marc:Though I think there's a lot of those.
Marc:Like who?
Marc:Musician wise?
Marc:Anybody.
Guest:I'm just curious.
Guest:What would be something that would blow your mind?
Marc:Well, you know, I think that not even Woody Allen anymore because I saw that documentary.
Marc:Like some people, especially the people that don't talk to a lot of people, when they finally do talk, it's like, well, they're done for God knows how long.
Marc:I mean, you know what I mean?
Marc:They just did the thing.
Marc:Like Albert Brooks, I think, would be interesting if I could get him for an hour.
Guest:You know who was a tough interview for me was Katie Lang.
Guest:She was really scary.
Guest:She scared the crap out of me.
Guest:Why'd you interview her?
Guest:Well, when I was living in New York, when I was working at VH1, and so I would interview musicians for that show.
Guest:I got to interview Brian Ferry and finally meet John from Duran Duran at long last.
Guest:All that wishing energy does go somewhere, it turns out.
Guest:um but no the uh when i met katie lang she just absolutely terrified me and she during the interview she's looking because why are you doing this yeah and and uh she meant like as a life choice yeah and honestly i i think i quit like three weeks later really yeah because janine garofalo had just quit snl and i was like if janine can quit snl i think i can quit my crappy job here at vh1 right right after katie lang has given me a scolding yeah about it but she just was like she blew my mind and i kept thinking if i was watching this interview i would be like what
Guest:oh, she's hilarious.
Guest:She's outstanding.
Guest:But that interview is getting her ass reamed and it was me getting the reaming.
Marc:It's scary when you get reamed and you know they're right.
Marc:Oh, the worst.
Marc:Trolls are like that too.
Marc:Like if they can sort of just focus in on the one thing that you know you've sort of somehow accommodated soul-wise.
Marc:Like, you know, I can do this because... And they're like, can you?
Marc:And you're like, you're right.
Guest:This is not right.
Guest:The other feeling that's crazy is when people are excruciatingly sincere.
Marc:Oh yeah, because that's devious.
Guest:Why do you say it's devious?
Guest:I mean, sincerely, they're really that sincere where you're just like... Not earnest, like really overly present.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I always wonder, would they be like the best lovers in the world?
Guest:Would they be like the most incredibly attentive lovers in the world?
Marc:I don't know if sincere means attentive.
Marc:I mean, there's a real good chance that they'd be really shitty lovers because sincere maybe implies a kind of groundedness that may not require pleasing other people as much as they need to be pleased.
Marc:They could sincerely say, are you good?
Marc:And you'd be like, I'm okay.
Guest:you know i'm good but there's some people that just exude that thing yeah like i feel like what are you saying that it's sincerity on that level is sexy i don't know if it's sincere no i'm saying it's not there's something where where when they're really ready to just like be with all the feelings they it can be it can be i think i don't know anybody like that's bullshit
Marc:If you're with all your feelings, if you're like that person, like I can be with all my feelings.
Marc:Well, they must not be very deep.
Marc:I mean, how can you, there's not one in there that's just like, you know, like you got them all in check.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:I have no.
Guest:You would think they'd all be in check.
Guest:What if they can be with even their crappiest self?
Marc:Well, you got no choice.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:What does that even mean?
Guest:Well, you could resist it.
Guest:You could resist it.
Marc:Yeah, I know, but that's... Yeah, but you're still with it.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that resistance is what makes you interesting.
Marc:Now, there's a good lover.
Ha ha ha ha!
Marc:The one that's resisting those horrible feelings until they can't anymore.
Marc:You got to grab them right at that moment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This guy's about to pop.
Marc:Take him under my wing.
Marc:You're in trouble.
Marc:Come here and fuck me.
Guest:right yeah so uh so after the vh1 thing yeah you wandered i wandered i don't i didn't know you in new york i feel like i knew you here nope i knew you in new york because um uh that's when like todd berry and uh i i and um louis ck and there was that
Guest:All the guys, the I.O., I mean the Upright Citizens Brigade shows.
Guest:I just feel like you were in L.A.
Guest:There was a place on Monday nights.
Guest:Yeah, I was here in L.A., but on Monday nights there was a place, I feel like, in the East Village.
Marc:Luna Lounge.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what have you been doing?
Marc:You wrote the book?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I saw it in the bookstore down the street.
Marc:It was beyond coincidence.
Marc:A couple of things happened.
Marc:I brought a bunch of books in there and I saw your book and it was like two days ago and I'm like, I could read that and prep.
Marc:And then I'm like, no.
Guest:You're good.
Guest:I'm good.
Marc:I know her kind of.
Marc:And then I got an email today because I'm in this legal, not really me, but there's a legal issue about patent trolls and some guy sent me an email referencing something your father did.
Guest:Oh, I like it.
Marc:Like saying, like, Frank Zabbitt did this before anybody.
Marc:And he was very excited.
Marc:Oh, where is that?
Marc:That might be interesting.
Marc:That's so funny, yeah.
Marc:Where is it?
Marc:Well, you need help, my mom.
Marc:Oh, here we go, here we go.
Guest:My mom can help you.
Marc:No, it's about the patent troll.
Marc:And he said, here's your solution.
Marc:Because when there's a patent infringement thing, like in order to sort of discredit the patent, you have to find something that existed prior.
Marc:And some guy has claimed the patent to podcasting.
Marc:of, you know, being able to post episodes, you know, in a timely fashion, something.
Marc:So this guy says, here's a solution.
Marc:Frank Zappa invented the whole concept of iTunes, podcasts, and even the burgeoning streaming audio industry back in the 80s.
Marc:Presumably, if Zappa documented these inventions before the troll suing you filed his patent, that should invalidate the troll's claims, right?
Marc:Go pick up a copy of FZ's autobiography, The Real Frank Zappa Book, copyright 1989.
Marc:Flip straight to page 337.
Marc:This will drop you into the middle of a chapter entitled Failure.
Marc:Here, FZ is describing some ideas he had that he considered at the time to have been failures.
Marc:On page 337, he describes, quote, a proposal for assisting to replace phonograph record merchandising, unquote.
Marc:Long story short,
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that is outstanding.
Guest:That is outstanding.
Marc:That is so funny.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And I wrote back to him.
Marc:I said, interesting, thanks.
Marc:And he goes, you're very welcome.
Marc:If it actually helps your case, it would make my day to hear about that.
Marc:Not being an opportunistic troll myself, I don't want any recognition or reward for bringing it to your attention, but I definitely would love to hear if it actually does help you.
Marc:The idea of Zappa being able to call bullshit on something from beyond the grave
Guest:poetry to it i love it and who's the guy who wrote it some dude what's his name his name's michael michael you rocked it i love it that is awesome so there you go that happened today that's crazy and you're coming in today that's crazy i wonder if it's real i forwarded to the lady oh i'm sure it's real no no i'm sure it's in the book but i wonder if it could actually be used oh yeah for your purposes
Marc:So how do you occupy your time?
Marc:I'm not being condescending.
Marc:I'm just like, you know, are you painting?
Marc:Are you drawing?
Marc:No, I'm writing.
Guest:You are?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For who?
Guest:For myself.
Guest:I'm actually writing a book about growing up in my house.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, people have been asking me for years, so I'm finally... And all I got was a fucking...
Marc:Nose Whistle and A Trip to the Grocery Store.
Marc:And your writing book.
Marc:I got Captain Beefheart Nose Whistle, which I loved.
Guest:That was a very good story.
Marc:And the fucking pervert story from the store.
Guest:I don't want to blow it all because, you know, maybe you can have me back on when the book is done.
Marc:Well, I'm trying to be encouraging.
Guest:Oh, great, great.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I'm trying to be encouraging.
Guest:Great, thank you.
Marc:We now know your dad was very funny, didn't talk much, and you had very little contact with him in his studio with large groups of men doing different things.
Marc:I don't know, do people really characterize him?
Marc:I know he used a lot of artists and everything, but it definitely seemed like there was a situation with a lot of men
Marc:playing things in that studio.
Marc:I imagine at all times there were just dudes eating, smoking cigarettes in your kitchen, coffee, and people tuning things, people practicing singing things.
Guest:uh mostly he when he was at home he was working by himself so there was a like an intercom system throughout the house and so you just hear him editing over and over so you hear like the tape and then you hear it played forward and then because he was yeah yeah you know yeah um he played that throughout the house the music was all throughout the house
Guest:And then we had a dumb waiter, so we'd put food on a bamboo tray and send it down.
Guest:Cayenne pepper was his favorite thing to add to absolutely everything.
Guest:Not pancakes, but everything else.
Guest:Right, but most things.
Guest:And then he would rent a rehearsal space.
Guest:I mean, I have countless stories where I broke my finger once at school, and they called my mom to come and get me, and she didn't come for hours and hours.
Guest:My finger was ballooning.
Guest:And then when they finally picked me up,
Guest:in the family Rolls-Royce, my father was in the front seat, she was there.
Guest:He was in the passenger seat because he stopped driving in his 20s.
Guest:When his first driver's license expired, he was like, I'm done with that.
Guest:And so then my mom drove him everywhere.
Guest:And so then I remember we went to go get him a red and green burrito or something.
Guest:Instead of taking me to the hospital or the doctor.
Marc:So this was not the greatest situation, but you seemed to have some love still.
Guest:Oh, I definitely have love.
Guest:I just, I have to laugh.
Guest:I mean, it's, I guess they were making decisions about what's, what's more important.
Guest:The music for the people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or my kid's finger that can be set at some point and heal at some, it's, it's going to heal.
Marc:So, so usually when, when the music was going on at home, it was just him.
Guest:Like I was stoked when he got cancer.
Guest:I'm like, finally, he's going to be home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:finally now we have some face time it's gonna be awesome did you i did i moved home and i moved home to be with him anyway and then want to hear what he was uh interested in doing what finishing all the work he had in his head so i was like oh wow okay so even even the big the big thing doesn't make the so when he knew he was dying he was like i gotta get this stuff out he didn't suddenly think oh you know what let me pick up uh on some of the parenting stuff i've missed out i get to know my kids
Guest:Actually, Diva might say it differently because they spent some quality time watching The Simpsons together.
Guest:And he would make me VHS tapes of things he was watching on the news.
Guest:He would just do little edits of just things that interested him.
Guest:He'd make these tapes.
Marc:That was his way of communicating?
Guest:Yeah, he'd send me some VHS tapes.
Marc:Did he keep you in conversation about them or just share them?
Guest:Well, one time he called me into a room to watch a porn with him and it was Fatliners.
Guest:And Flatliners had just come out recently.
Guest:And so whatever year that was, 90, whatever, however old I was.
Marc:He's older than that.
Marc:Flatliners with all those.
Marc:Late 80s?
Marc:Yeah, probably.
Marc:So I was probably, I was still a teen.
Marc:Well, you know, I could probably just look it up.
Marc:I was still a teenager.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he brings you in to watch Fat Liners, which is a fact.
Guest:And that sounds terrible to watch porn with your dad, except he was truly showing me this anthropological horror show of this fetish where people just- 1990.
Guest:Fuck the folds of incredibly obese people.
Guest:So it was like, he was crying with laughter.
Guest:He just thought it was the funniest, most hilarious, like, look at these people doing this.
Guest:And how old were you in 1990?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh i was a i don't know a teenager so i was if i was born in 67 1990 what is that no you're 23 okay so so okay it's okay to watch a porn with your daughter but it didn't it didn't make a difference he wouldn't he wouldn't have cared about that he was he was it was still like you know hilarious to him because it's it's never comfortable i don't care what age you are nobody wants to sit with their dad and watch a porno no you can't there's cocks out
Guest:yeah yeah it's not right yeah in any way even for comedic that's right even if you were in your 60s and your dad was like hey let me show you this thing yeah i still think it'd be wrong well usually as long as it's not his thing there's a little distance no i know but the point is i had to process it as it was happening like this is even though i know this from the outside laughing hysterically he's like look at these savages are you the oldest one yeah
Marc:But like somehow or another, like your your dad scene, you know, didn't quite tie in with the rest of all that, you know, Laurel Canyon cocaine hippie business because he wasn't.
Marc:He never did any drugs.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He was just the sort of wizard on the hill.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he just completely created his own universe.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Marc:Do you even know how many records he has out?
Guest:50 plus?
Guest:I don't even know.
Guest:My mom's still releasing them, so there's still stuff in the vault.
Guest:Does she still?
Marc:It's a very specific audience.
Marc:It's eight people, and they are fervent.
Marc:But it's more than eight, but are they loyal?
Marc:Are there still a lot out there?
Marc:Do people still come to Zappa?
Guest:Well, Dweezil Tour is playing his music, so he's able to pay a mortgage.
Marc:Because it seems like he had it in his mind, your dad had it in his mind, that I'm going to leave this stuff and it's going to transcend time somehow.
Marc:I don't think he was thinking about that.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I don't think he had.
Marc:He was just compulsive and needed to keep creating.
Guest:I really felt like he just answered the calling.
Guest:He just kept creating.
Guest:And so, I mean, it's weird living opposite somebody who's just like, nope, just going to answer the calling.
Guest:Just going to keep answering just what's in me that wants to be said and done.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's a great thing.
Marc:It's a rare thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's not it's not great for raising children.
Guest:But yes, for artistry, for artistry, it's outstanding.
Marc:The weird thing about that particular problem in terms of how we're parented that I think there's some concession in the minds of others and perhaps even in us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For a while, it's sort of like, well, I got what I needed.
Marc:I always had clothes.
Marc:I wore shoes.
Marc:We lived well.
Marc:I was never in want of anything.
Guest:I had a pretty good time.
Guest:Yeah, we both share no knowledge of how mortgages work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we were spoiled.
Guest:No one taught us how to fish.
Guest:No one taught us how to fish is what I'm saying.
Marc:Yeah, I had to go to camp for that.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah, it wasn't my thing.
Marc:You could probably learn how to fish.
Guest:I meant it as a metaphor, but I hear what you're saying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:But you don't think you learned anything from him?
Guest:No, of course I did.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Humor as a tool of survival, as a survival tool.
Marc:And just keeping people away in general.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Ask a lot of questions, not to bring them closer, but to keep yourself safe, to isolate.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Spicy food, of course.
Guest:I love spicy food.
Guest:Lawyers, of course.
Guest:The Zappa tutorial on that, it's pretty widely documented.
Guest:Is it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What were his big legal issues?
Guest:What?
Guest:I mean, his whole career was legal issues.
Guest:Yeah, trying to get stuff back.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah, horrible.
Marc:From record labels?
Marc:Or from who?
Guest:That's a Gail Zappa question.
Guest:I'm not even totally clear on it.
Guest:I just know that there's still outstanding legal issues.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's a full-time job, just her going after people for stuff.
Marc:Does she still have the label?
Marc:Is Barking Pumpkins still the thing?
Marc:No.
Guest:uh i'm not sure if that i think it is still i mean yes she runs the label right i don't know what what imprint it is at this point there's the utility muffin research kitchen and i don't know what else so what what where are you at in your writing process with this thing how far along just just putting whatever i can think of on the page and then assembling it later but honestly the point of view is the is the tricky thing because i want to tell the stories but i don't want to
Marc:like ruin him for people so trying to find a balance where I can express stuff but not take him down which is yeah I just did that yeah my dad's not Frank Zappi he's just a doctor in New Mexico but it's dicey yeah but mine's still alive and not talking to me so really he's not talking to you yours not going to talk to you anymore maybe
Marc:You might risk alienating your father for the rest of your life.
Guest:So the Ouija board contact, that's going to stop?
Marc:That's out.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:That's out.
Marc:He's not going to be able to give you one or two word answers on the Ouija board.
Marc:No thumps?
Marc:Okay, well.
Marc:Well, I guess that is a concern.
Marc:But do you really have stories that you think that would do that other than like he just wasn't attentive?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just I feel like it's it's some of it is that I feel like it's my mom's story to tell because she was a grown up interacting with a grown up.
Guest:And so from a kid's perspective, I don't know.
Guest:But people always ask, what was it like?
Guest:And they have these ideas and maybe their ideas are more interesting, but maybe not.
Marc:Well, I think people are fascinated with not just celebrities, but with people that are sort of known as geniuses and didn't offer much of their personal lives to people while they were alive.
Marc:So there's always this need, like no one wants to just assume like, well, he's just a dad who didn't hang out much because he was smoking and looping.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, but at least he was actually, I mean, he was, I think I would call him a genius too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who are the Zappa fans now?
Marc:I mean, do you come in contact with them involuntarily?
Guest:I just met somebody at a comedy show I did.
Guest:And this guy came up to me and he gave me, I think, his passport and something else.
Guest:And he told me that he is my brother and that his mother had slept with my father.
Guest:and that he was my brother and that he knew he was my brother because he played a certain song backwards and it said some information and about like it said a date which was his birthday he had a whole elaborate thing and I just I smiled politely I said okay well you know the person to really ask about this would be my mother because I have no idea but maybe you defer to Gail a lot I do I love it I just I'll give her the business card do you but there is it possible
Guest:Let's do a paternity test.
Guest:Let's find out.
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:Let's do it.
Guest:I love people.
Guest:Let's do this.
Guest:You're going to have to pay for the paternity test, but let's do this.
Marc:Has anyone tried to date you because you're Zappa's daughter?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was a horrible experiment.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How'd that go?
Guest:Because I disappointed him.
Guest:He did not want to hear any bad news about my dad.
Marc:Oh, so you went out with him.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Marc:Did you know?
Marc:I did know.
Guest:I did know.
Guest:But here's the thing.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was in my 20s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I did the thing of like, get to know him.
Guest:Be friends first.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So did the friend thing for a year.
Guest:But here's what I realized.
Guest:Now, it doesn't matter if you sleep with somebody on the first date.
Guest:You get to know them as a friend.
Guest:You marry them.
Guest:People are going to reveal themselves when they reveal themselves.
Guest:So just say, I just say jump in.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just find out.
Guest:That's why I say coupling is like the bravest thing you can do.
Marc:hanging in trying it just jumping in no i think that like i'm a strong believer and i think that you know you should you probably fuck before you talk a lot really you think fuck first yeah well i mean you know just act on the sort of initial juice really and just sort of like oh god this is crazy and then try to rebuild after that that's it then spend the rest of your life you know rebuilding from that first thing
Marc:Okay, yeah, well.
Marc:I mean, yeah.
Guest:I'll try it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'll let you know how it goes.
Marc:Do you remember that first time?
Marc:Why can't we get that back?
Marc:Remember when we didn't know each other and was never supposed to go this far and now we're just trying to...
Guest:Rebecca Corey has a really funny thing about parents.
Guest:She doesn't speak to her parents, but she always thinks it's hilarious when people ask their parents for advice because she says that parents are two people that were like, you like that shit?
Guest:You like that shit?
Guest:You were not on their mind.
Guest:They were not like, let's together, let's pull what you know and what I know and we build a dream and then we raise it from the ground up and when it is struggling, it will come to us and we will give it this information.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:It makes me laugh.
Marc:It's funny.
Guest:You like that shit?
Guest:You like that shit.
Marc:So you're doing stand-up too?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like a lot?
Guest:Well, I keep doing UnCabaret and Beth keeps asking me to be the musical guest.
Guest:She's back.
Guest:Beth is back.
Guest:But I'm enjoying being the musical guest because I can't find the one.
Guest:What do you mean you can't find the one?
Guest:I can't find the one.
Guest:The downbeat.
Guest:I can't find it.
Guest:So you sing?
Guest:I sing.
Guest:I work with a jazz drummer.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just the two of you?
Guest:And then maybe the piano player that's there, I'll say, what do you got?
Guest:And he'll just play some notes and be like, that sounds good.
Marc:And you just riff?
Guest:Well, I'll have some words.
Guest:Like I recently sang about not being able to qualify for a loan.
Guest:And I sang about that.
Marc:Why weren't you able to qualify for a loan?
Guest:Oh, because I don't have an income.
Guest:yet yeah because i don't know if you know um it's when you're an artist uh sometimes you uh no yeah it fluctuates yeah your income but then how do you live is it the zappa trust no no no i don't get all insulted you just said you don't have no i i no it's not that i'm sorry when you said zappa trust it made me think about family and family support and then i got triggered and then i got really upset about that it's fine
Guest:No.
Guest:Currently, it is through my divorce that I'm able to survive until I can get back on my own two feet here.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I'm going to just pass the hat around now.
Guest:And there's a lemonade stand that I'm going to set up.
Marc:Out front?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just drive around with it?
Guest:At some point, I probably will have to sell my dad's.
Guest:Is that an aid?
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm going to sell my dad's, what do you call it?
Guest:The thing he won the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame award.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:For the highest bidder.
Marc:That'd be a sad moment.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Not for me.
Marc:No?
Marc:No.
Marc:When Moon Zappa shows up at a pawn shop or eBay.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Why?
Guest:What do you mean why?
Guest:A fan would be ecstatic about it.
Marc:Oh, that's a good way to spend it.
Marc:Just take it off your desperation entirely.
Marc:It's a gift to a loving fan.
Guest:What am I supposed to do with it?
Guest:It's just a weird little trophy.
Guest:Does it have special symbolism?
Guest:Is it magic?
Guest:How much apple butter do you need?
Guest:Well, I do.
Guest:You really have to sell your dad's Hall of Fame award to get apple butter?
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:All right, fine.
Guest:Yeah, or put my kid through college, but yes, yes.
Guest:Do you think you're going to make that much?
Guest:I hope.
Guest:I hope to.
Guest:Does it not have a value?
Guest:Do people not love the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Marc:Why don't you find one of his guitars?
Marc:Oh, my mother has all those.
Marc:I think you got to work this shit out with your mother and get some of that shit if you're going to start selling Zappa shit.
Marc:It's trickier than you think.
Guest:Hire a lawyer.
Marc:But you get along with everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's a great time to be pickpocket because everyone's looking down at their phones all the time.
Guest:So I probably could get some stuff in there when she's on the phone.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just walk out.
Marc:I'm just going to borrow this for a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think it's going to come to that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think so either.
Guest:Because I go to prostitution first.
Marc:I think maybe we should stick with Zappa Yoga.
Guest:Okay, well.
Marc:Zappa Ho is not.
Marc:It's a feeling you don't want to be a Zappa Ho.
Guest:Do you know that Zappa means ho in Italian?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It means whore or ho?
Guest:Ho.
Marc:It does?
Marc:Yeah, not whore, but ho.
Marc:Zappa, like the gardening tool?
Guest:To till the earth, yes, like a gardening tool.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Zappa.
Guest:It's a ho.
Marc:You're a ho.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks, Moon.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:All right, that's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:How great.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Fun.
Marc:Is she fun?
Marc:Is she smart?
Marc:Is she great?
Marc:I love her.
Marc:Thank you for listening, you guys.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:Upgrade to the premium app for a few bucks.
Marc:Get all the shows.
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:I'm basically around.
Marc:I'm in L.A.
Marc:doing shows here and there.
Marc:I got no big ones coming up.
Marc:I'm kind of locked in.
Marc:We're riding Marin.
Marc:We got to shoot Marin.
Marc:So I'm going to be around.
Marc:But I will be working.
Marc:I will be doing things.
Marc:Boomer lives!
you