Episode 431 - Josh Homme

Episode 431 • Released October 9, 2013 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what-the-fuckers?

00:00:11Marc:What-the-fuck buddies?

00:00:12Marc:What-the-fuck sticks?

00:00:13Marc:What-the-fuckineers?

00:00:15Marc:What-the-fuckaholics?

00:00:17Marc:What-the-fuckadelics?

00:00:18Marc:What-the-fuckalberry fins?

00:00:21Marc:A few things right out of the gate.

00:00:24Marc:What I want to tell you, if you live in the L.A.

00:00:26Marc:area or you want to make a trip, I will be at the Ice House this Sunday.

00:00:30Marc:That's the 13th at 7 o'clock p.m.

00:00:34Marc:with the lovely Dean Del Rey.

00:00:37Marc:The authentically rock and roll Dean Del Rey and myself will be at the Ice House October 13th.

00:00:44Marc:That's in Pasadena, California, down the street from me.

00:00:48Marc:If you'd like to come do that, we'd love to have you.

00:00:51Marc:That show has sold out before.

00:00:53Marc:It's not sold out now, I don't think.

00:00:55Marc:But if you want to come, come.

00:00:57Marc:I know that Walking Dead premieres that night.

00:00:59Marc:I get it.

00:01:00Marc:I understand.

00:01:02Marc:But you can record it.

00:01:04Marc:It'll be fun, man.

00:01:05Marc:I'm very thrilled that people are digging the special Thinky Pain.

00:01:09Marc:That's my special that's up there at Netflix.

00:01:13Marc:Thinky Pain.

00:01:14Marc:I recorded it in New York City.

00:01:17Marc:You know, by the time I put it up there, I'd had enough of it.

00:01:20Marc:But it's a long-form deal.

00:01:21Marc:Hour and a half.

00:01:23Marc:woven together a lifetime's worth of stand-up skills applied uh thank you for all the lovely feedback the one thing i noticed about um doing something like i did it which is by putting it up on netflix or making it available to those who have to make an effort to get it that uh not seeing a lot of haters

00:01:43Marc:I think the haters just sit on their couch waiting to hate, waiting until something dumps into their living room, into their face, into their ears, into their brains that they may have not been expecting and they don't really have the energy to perhaps turn the channel or turn it off.

00:01:59Marc:And they just sit there and go, what the fuck is this doing in my house?

00:02:02Marc:Why is this coming out of my television?

00:02:05Marc:Why can't I just turn it off and not just sit and hate on it?

00:02:09Marc:Because I want to hate.

00:02:11Marc:And then I want to tweet it.

00:02:13Marc:And then I want to put it on Facebook.

00:02:15Marc:And then I want to write something about it.

00:02:17Marc:And then I'm going to put that up.

00:02:19Marc:Because I am a hateful content maker.

00:02:22Marc:Some of you snarkers fall under that umbrella, my friends.

00:02:27Marc:Hateful content makers.

00:02:29Marc:Occasional snarkers.

00:02:31Marc:Douchebags.

00:02:34Marc:All.

00:02:35Marc:Did I mention Josh Homme?

00:02:38Marc:Josh Homme from Queens of the Stone Age.

00:02:41Marc:Eagles of Death Metal.

00:02:42Marc:Caius.

00:02:43Marc:I fucking loved Caius.

00:02:45Marc:I'm going to talk to him in a few minutes.

00:02:47Marc:And it was awesome.

00:02:49Marc:So that's coming up.

00:02:51Marc:Def Black Cat dropped by the other day to give me some hope.

00:02:54Marc:His eyes looking good.

00:02:55Marc:It's not looking all fucked up.

00:02:57Marc:Looks like it healed up pretty good.

00:02:59Marc:His face is the right proportions.

00:03:02Marc:His head is the right size.

00:03:05Marc:And...

00:03:06Marc:You know, his tongue was hanging out, it was cute, and he was afraid of me.

00:03:11Marc:But man, just seeing that guy, just seeing deaf black cat DBC makes me happy.

00:03:19Marc:Gives me hope.

00:03:20Marc:Gives me hope in these dark times.

00:03:24Marc:Creativity must be the life preserver for darkness.

00:03:33Marc:Sometimes your creativity, your expression of yourself, what you put out into the world or what you put out from your hands or your throat, that it just something that you give form to will save you.

00:03:49Marc:Sometimes some things that you write down are literally things that are keeping you from drowning.

00:03:57Marc:These words are keeping you from drowning.

00:03:59Marc:These words are keeping you from falling off of that mountain, from letting go of that edge.

00:04:09Marc:This song, these words, this movement, this piece of art, this painting, saving my fucking life.

00:04:18Marc:Do you know that feeling?

00:04:19Marc:Coming through darkness, folks.

00:04:23Marc:It's something I talked to Josh about.

00:04:25Marc:You know, I I remember getting Jesus, man, I, you know, in preparation to talk to Josh Homme.

00:04:32Marc:Yeah, I went back.

00:04:34Marc:I went back.

00:04:36Marc:I went back to a studio apartment on Avenue B between first and second in Alphabet City.

00:04:43Marc:Probably 1991 or 92.

00:04:44Marc:I don't know.

00:04:45Marc:I'd have to check those dates.

00:04:47Marc:What would it have been?

00:04:49Marc:Nah, it's probably $89, probably $89 or $90.

00:04:53Marc:Up there with a stereo on the floor, just a table, one chair that I got cheap, a red table, shitty chair, small bookshelf, a bed, a futon frame that I, for some reason, put a lot of money into.

00:05:06Marc:That was the only thing I paid for was this almost obnoxious, almost gaudy sort of wood thing.

00:05:13Marc:You know, like almost handmade-y looking wood futon frame.

00:05:18Marc:Kind of hippie-ish.

00:05:20Marc:Futons in general.

00:05:21Marc:Man, I'm glad that's over.

00:05:23Marc:You remember futons?

00:05:25Marc:Are they still around?

00:05:27Marc:Futons were the shit.

00:05:28Marc:I remember there was a point there where they tried to tell us they were better than beds.

00:05:32Marc:And we fucking believe that?

00:05:33Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?

00:05:35Marc:There'd be all these different angles on futons.

00:05:37Marc:This one's got two pieces of foam in it surrounded by cotton.

00:05:40Marc:It's like it's just a bag stuffed with fluffy with different densities that you put on the floor.

00:05:50Marc:You know, once you start elevating those futons off the floor and buying that bullshit, then they have this whole racket of like, you know, well, you got to sleep on it for a while.

00:05:57Marc:So it conforms to you or the sword pats down and becomes a little denser.

00:06:02Marc:It's a mat.

00:06:03Marc:It's a glorified mat.

00:06:07Marc:It's a bag of cotton.

00:06:12Marc:Man, I'm glad those days are behind me.

00:06:13Marc:I apologize for those of you who still believe in the futon experience.

00:06:17Marc:They used to get so nasty, man.

00:06:19Marc:They just became sponges for goo.

00:06:22Marc:Sponges for discharge.

00:06:24Marc:Sponges for sweat.

00:06:25Marc:There was no way to... It was just gross, man.

00:06:29Marc:Things would live in there.

00:06:31Marc:I'm not sure there was probably new microbes and bacterias created within futon, some sort of weird, strange, you know, cotton tide pool business that mixes with your sweat and maybe some blood and some pee and some cum, you know, that kind of soaks into the cotton and takes form, man, takes form.

00:06:51Marc:They become, it becomes an egg sack of these little cotton mutants.

00:06:55Marc:That's what a futon is.

00:06:56Marc:Darkness, man.

00:06:57Marc:Caius.

00:06:58Marc:That's what I was getting at.

00:06:59Marc:Caius.

00:07:01Marc:Some dude had sent me the Kaya CD when I was living there on Avenue B in Alphabet City.

00:07:07Marc:Constant racket, constant Japanese, you know, motorcycle scooters, constant heroin traffic going on just below my window.

00:07:17Marc:Garbage cans banging.

00:07:19Marc:Nothing worse than living on a drug corner, man.

00:07:21Marc:The conversation is just sort of like over nothing.

00:07:24Marc:Hey, man, I told you that was my shirt.

00:07:29Marc:Why do you got my shirt?

00:07:32Marc:Shut up, man.

00:07:33Marc:It's my shirt.

00:07:34Marc:Fuck you.

00:07:35Marc:I'm taking it.

00:07:36Marc:Fuck you.

00:07:37Marc:Give me my shirt.

00:07:39Marc:Ow, ow.

00:07:40Marc:3.30 a.m.

00:07:45Marc:Drug corners.

00:07:47Marc:So there I was alone.

00:07:49Marc:Listening to Caius.

00:07:51Marc:The reason I remember it is one time there's something about being alone.

00:07:54Marc:I don't do well alone, really.

00:07:56Marc:But I was alone, man, down there on the Lower East Side.

00:07:59Marc:Being sober for the first time.

00:08:01Marc:Crawling out of my skin with my stereo on the floor.

00:08:03Marc:I remember going down to Chinatown and buying a fish.

00:08:07Marc:I bought a fish.

00:08:09Marc:A whole fish.

00:08:11Marc:Unscaled.

00:08:12Marc:Red snapper fish.

00:08:14Marc:I bought a wok.

00:08:16Marc:And I had like two plates and no condiments.

00:08:20Marc:And I think I do things sometimes to just amplify my sadness and loneliness and darkness because I went back to that apartment by myself with my fish and my new wok and the idea that I would cook it, that I would steam that fish in the wok and serve it up with a little soy sauce and some sliced ginger like you get in a store.

00:08:41Marc:Like you get in the Chinese restaurants, the steamed whole fish.

00:08:45Marc:That was my project.

00:08:47Marc:So I sat there at my red table with a half-cooked, half-steamed sad fish that I didn't scale properly.

00:08:54Marc:And I listened to Caius.

00:08:57Marc:And I remember that groove, man.

00:08:59Marc:It came down.

00:09:01Marc:It came out of those speakers.

00:09:03Marc:It came from someplace different.

00:09:04Marc:It came from someplace spacious.

00:09:08Marc:And now I know that it came from the desert.

00:09:11Marc:It came from the fucking desert, man.

00:09:14Marc:Josh Homme comes from the fucking desert.

00:09:16Marc:Light Clockwork is the name of the new Queens of the Stone Age album.

00:09:22Marc:Let's talk to Josh Homme of Queens of the Stone Age, Caius, Eagles of Death Metal, and many other projects.

00:09:32Marc:Fucking dude is solid.

00:09:34Marc:Great talk.

00:09:34Marc:Strap in.

00:09:42Marc:The panic of not having the thing that you need.

00:09:45Guest:Especially that.

00:09:46Guest:Oh, yeah, fuck, man.

00:09:47Marc:Sometimes with these nicotine lozenges, it's like when I did Blow, you know, that sort of panic for the bindle.

00:09:51Marc:Yeah.

00:09:52Marc:Okay, I got it.

00:09:53Marc:You don't even need it.

00:09:54Marc:You just need to know you have it.

00:09:55Guest:Yeah, just that touchstone.

00:09:56Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:09:57Guest:It's close.

00:09:57Guest:Okay, yeah, I got it.

00:09:58Guest:I'm good.

00:09:59Marc:All right, so today, I'll tell you what I did today.

00:10:02Marc:I don't know what you put in your head today, but you walked into my house, and I listened to the first two, two and a half ZZ Top albums.

00:10:09Marc:I listened to one side of Firehose's Raging Full On, and I listened to some of your songs from your new record.

00:10:18Marc:Okay, yeah.

00:10:18Marc:Now, there seems to be, am I mistaken in that there is perhaps some ZZ Top?

00:10:23Marc:I know there's some ZZ Top in your drive shaft, in your engine.

00:10:26Marc:Firehose?

00:10:27Guest:You know, my first gig out of town was opening for Firehose.

00:10:31Guest:Really?

00:10:32Guest:At the Green Door in Montclair.

00:10:33Guest:Get out.

00:10:34Guest:Yeah.

00:10:35Guest:And I'll never forget watching Mike Watt.

00:10:37Guest:He broke a string.

00:10:39Guest:Yeah.

00:10:39Guest:And changed it so fast.

00:10:41Guest:I thought I could aspire to like change strings on stage in less than 10 seconds.

00:10:47Marc:That's what moved you the most about your fire hose experience.

00:10:49Guest:Well, I was always an SST guy, Black Flag.

00:10:53Guest:They were one of the only bands that ever played the desert.

00:10:55Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:57Guest:And so that attitude of not just DIY, but no, you can actually do it yourself, and you should, and that's why we're here, really permeated my hometown.

00:11:06Guest:Yeah.

00:11:07Marc:Well, I don't know a lot about that Palm Desert scene, but I know that I have a fascination and a need to go to the desert.

00:11:15Marc:Yeah.

00:11:15Guest:i i feel that it's a great place to sort of your cell phone doesn't work and you you're stranded and and when you look at someone that has a mullet of epic proportions and you know missing teeth like you know the tweaker teeth like yeah and you you sort of you're talking about now like you go there now yeah no now this is not a dated thing no this is now but it's sort of you feel you feel good

00:11:41Guest:Yeah.

00:11:42Marc:Well, there's sort of like a weird kind of healthy emaciation that goes on out there.

00:11:46Marc:People's skin gets all leathery.

00:11:49Marc:Their eyes fade a little bit.

00:11:51Marc:They almost become reptilian.

00:11:53Guest:Yeah, they sink back a little bit.

00:11:54Marc:Right, right.

00:11:55Marc:And when you go out to the desert, you're like, that guy's got to know something.

00:11:57Guest:Well, and it's true, too, because the desert's about economy, like the wisdom of economy.

00:12:03Guest:It's too hot to do certain things, so you need to be ready.

00:12:07Guest:You need to know.

00:12:08Marc:You just have to sit still until the need to pounce happens.

00:12:11Guest:What bugs hurt, you know?

00:12:13Guest:That one coming towards me is bad.

00:12:16Guest:There's one called a salpigid.

00:12:18Guest:Really?

00:12:18Guest:What does that look like?

00:12:19Guest:It looks like a giant white ant.

00:12:22Marc:Oh, my God.

00:12:22Guest:And it gets about palm size.

00:12:23Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:12:24Guest:It won't hurt you, but it's so aggressive that, you know, and they come out.

00:12:29Guest:As soon as you see lizards, everything else is coming out, right?

00:12:33Guest:So lizards are great.

00:12:34Guest:I think that's in the Bible.

00:12:36Guest:It is, actually.

00:12:37Guest:Yeah.

00:12:37Guest:Moses came down with a bunch of lizards.

00:12:39Guest:As soon as the lizards come, they're all coming.

00:12:41Guest:But this salt budget is so aggressive that if you flick it off or away, you know, it'll turn and come back at you.

00:12:49Guest:To bite you, but it's not toxic.

00:12:52Guest:It's not toxic.

00:12:54Guest:Psychologically, it's very toxic.

00:12:55Marc:Well, yeah, just hearing about it is.

00:12:57Marc:How about those?

00:12:58Marc:I grew up in New Mexico, in Albuquerque, so there was some high desert shit, or not high desert.

00:13:02Guest:Well, you've got vinegaroons and stuff.

00:13:04Marc:Right, the vinegaroons and the wind scorpions.

00:13:06Marc:I know.

00:13:06Marc:Those are the ugliest fucking things.

00:13:09Marc:You find them in pool filters.

00:13:10Guest:But wind scorpion sounds like something beautiful.

00:13:12Guest:It sounds like a fragrance.

00:13:14Marc:No, no.

00:13:14Marc:Wind scorpion.

00:13:15Marc:It's like a half tarantula, half scorpion.

00:13:18Marc:It's like a scorpion with a spider's head and no tail.

00:13:23Guest:Horrible.

00:13:24Guest:That's when you say, like, who fucking made this?

00:13:26Guest:Yeah, I don't know.

00:13:26Marc:yeah there's got there's somebody was trying to balance things out i know that here's some pretty stuff but what the fuck look at that thing but well anything that small that sees you a giant you yeah and goes fuck this guy i'm coming yeah that's it when you grew up though in uh you you spent your whole life there early on yeah so you grew up with in palm desert which is like near desert hot springs near joshua tree right and

00:13:49Guest:Yeah, I mean, to me, they're all the same.

00:13:51Guest:They're separated by a stoplight.

00:13:53Guest:Right.

00:13:54Guest:You don't feel any like socioeconomical like, oh, now we're here.

00:13:59Guest:But you got to feel that in Palm Springs on some level.

00:14:01Guest:Well, you do.

00:14:01Guest:On a resort level, I guess.

00:14:03Guest:Well, the greatest thing that really happened in the last 30 years to Palm Springs is that the gays have taken over.

00:14:09Guest:Yeah.

00:14:10Guest:And as they do, the yards get great.

00:14:13Guest:Everything gets nicer.

00:14:13Guest:The film festival happens.

00:14:15Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:15Guest:Everyone's like in good shape.

00:14:18Yeah.

00:14:18Marc:Yeah.

00:14:19Marc:It gets beautiful.

00:14:21Marc:Oh, that's nice.

00:14:22Marc:And then just a few miles away, guys with missing teeth.

00:14:25Marc:Well, someone's got to hold up the edge.

00:14:28Marc:Beyond the margin.

00:14:29Marc:There has to be a margin to the desert.

00:14:32Guest:There's an area by Desert Hot Springs called Sky Valley, which sounds so beautiful.

00:14:37Guest:Right.

00:14:38Guest:And it's where lots of the labs used to be.

00:14:41Guest:Back in what, the 70s or the 80s?

00:14:43Guest:In the 80s.

00:14:44Guest:And you'd be watching the news as a kid and be like, there's a house fire in Sky Valley.

00:14:50Guest:And you're like, oh, that's not really a house fire.

00:14:53Guest:It's more like a science.

00:14:55Guest:Bill Nye, the meth guy.

00:14:56Guest:There's a guy in there with beakers making things.

00:14:59Guest:And we played out there a lot.

00:15:01Guest:And I'll never forget the first time we played.

00:15:02Guest:Music or as a child?

00:15:04Guest:Yeah.

00:15:05Guest:Played music.

00:15:06Guest:Okay.

00:15:06Guest:Kai is my first band.

00:15:08Guest:You play parties.

00:15:09Guest:And I'll never forget the first time I walked into the garage and this stinging air attacked my eyes and nostrils.

00:15:15Guest:And it was a little home garage lab with a party.

00:15:20Guest:At the party.

00:15:21Guest:Yeah, so the police come to break up a party and don't notice that in the garage, you know.

00:15:28Guest:They're cooking meth.

00:15:29Marc:Were these like biker dudes or like who was doing that back then?

00:15:33Guest:Someone with an ear-to-ear grin that could not be wiped away.

00:15:35Guest:Yeah, that's where we got more and more evil as time went on.

00:15:38Guest:Yeah, when you see someone buying all the cough medicine, which was legal back then.

00:15:42Guest:The Sudafed, the cold medicine.

00:15:44Guest:As a kid seeing that and the pharmacist guy go, man, you must be sick.

00:15:50Guest:I think I could be sick for a while.

00:15:53Guest:Yeah, I kind of am sick.

00:15:56Marc:Might go on for a bit.

00:15:58Guest:Bingo.

00:16:00Marc:Well, I mean, I can't.

00:16:01Marc:So how did the when when you guys played?

00:16:03Marc:I mean, I did a little reading about the whole generator party thing.

00:16:08Marc:Yeah.

00:16:08Marc:I mean, I have to – what effect do you see in your music or in your being?

00:16:12Marc:Did that have, like, waking up to that landscape every day?

00:16:15Marc:I mean, I grew up in the Southwest, but I know there were just – you're just fucking kids and you're running around in cars and, you know, blasting music out.

00:16:21Guest:But you know, too, there's not a lot to do in that desert environment.

00:16:24Guest:And so you really have to make your own fun.

00:16:28Guest:And, you know, that fun is very simple.

00:16:32Guest:It's like skateboards or, like, two sticks and a rock.

00:16:35Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:37Guest:It really –

00:16:37Guest:and it's not even a lot to break well there's a bleakness too yeah there's nothing to break you yeah yourself slowly so you just break take your time and break yourself down yeah and um and there's a bleakness there too that right you understand that never ending that horizon line it's forever yeah you know no see that no trees and and so you know but i think it sort of builds up this

00:17:03Guest:There's an awkward pride there of like, this is ours.

00:17:08Guest:This is our little rock.

00:17:10Guest:And that bleakness makes you sort of enjoy the little things that are there.

00:17:15Guest:And you say, this is it.

00:17:18Guest:This is it.

00:17:19Marc:But the music becomes, I would think that when you started doing those parties or playing out in that landscape, the music becomes monumental very quickly.

00:17:26Marc:Yeah.

00:17:27Guest:Well, it does.

00:17:28Guest:Because you're up against it.

00:17:31Guest:You're up against that landscape.

00:17:33Guest:Well, that backdrop is nuts.

00:17:35Guest:Yeah.

00:17:35Guest:It's beautiful.

00:17:36Guest:Right.

00:17:37Guest:But also, the influence of an L.A.

00:17:42Guest:doesn't exist because it just isn't there.

00:17:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:46Guest:And so you really do.

00:17:48Guest:You get into some weird tangents just because...

00:17:52Guest:there's no one to stop you or no culture to stop you.

00:17:56Guest:Infinity, yeah.

00:17:57Marc:It just keeps going.

00:17:59Marc:So when you were driving around skateboarding or whatever the fuck you did as a kid, I mean I know we were talking about ZZ Top briefly, but what was it that kind of plowed into your brain initially?

00:18:10Guest:you know aside from i don't know when you started playing guitar but what made you do it well i wanted to play drums and and you know as i understand it no parent would ever buy their kids drums that that you know even out in the garage you can't go out in the garage not really no it was like it was like why don't i'll buy you a guitar and if you're good in five years maybe you could get a drum set i was nine yeah

00:18:33Guest:And, you know, you get a $50 acoustic guitar.

00:18:36Guest:Like that?

00:18:36Guest:Was it like a K or a harmony?

00:18:38Guest:Yeah, it was a Seville.

00:18:40Marc:Oh, yeah, okay.

00:18:41Guest:And, you know, which is even more nameless than a... Classical?

00:18:44Guest:Yeah.

00:18:44Guest:No, it was a... Steel string?

00:18:46Guest:It was honestly... It was too big for a nine-year-old.

00:18:48Guest:Yeah.

00:18:49Guest:You know?

00:18:49Guest:Yeah.

00:18:50Guest:Even though I was a big kid, it was way too big.

00:18:53Guest:So it was like a cumbersome piece of wood.

00:18:56Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:18:57Guest:But then I...

00:18:58Guest:I learned, you know, that you could just make your own stuff right away.

00:19:02Guest:And that became kind of everything.

00:19:05Guest:Yeah.

00:19:06Marc:And what about the bands?

00:19:07Marc:I mean, what was it?

00:19:08Marc:What was it?

00:19:08Marc:What was going on?

00:19:09Marc:When did you become when did you realize you wanted to rock for lack of a better way to put it?

00:19:13Guest:There's a guy named Mario Lally that we call Boomer.

00:19:17Guest:Yeah.

00:19:17Guest:And he was the guy that there was one generator and he owned it.

00:19:20Guest:And he is this really benevolent, like, you know, music can get bitter sometimes where everyone's got better than you and that sucks.

00:19:31Guest:Sure.

00:19:32Guest:And he was really- Everything gets like that.

00:19:34Guest:Yeah.

00:19:34Guest:I mean, yeah.

00:19:36Guest:And he really fostered this chase your own, make your own theme music sort of.

00:19:44Guest:Was he a musician?

00:19:45Guest:Yeah, he was in a band now called Fatso Jetson.

00:19:49Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:19:50Marc:Right.

00:19:51Marc:Someone asked me to ask you about that.

00:19:53Guest:Yeah.

00:19:53Guest:And well, he was such an inspiration to me.

00:19:56Guest:He played differently than everyone.

00:19:57Guest:He sounded different.

00:19:59Guest:And my whole goal in all this is to be unheckleable.

00:20:03Guest:Right.

00:20:04Marc:Right.

00:20:04Marc:You mean someone who no one could say like, you're doing so and so or I've heard that before.

00:20:09Guest:Well, and or that even if someone like he's unheckleable, this guy Boomer, and he was a big guy.

00:20:15Guest:He's, you know, since gotten skinny, but he was about 400 pounds, big guy.

00:20:20Guest:And he closes eyes and play.

00:20:22Guest:And you could not like it, but you could never look at him and say, well, that's fake.

00:20:27Guest:Yeah, right.

00:20:27Guest:It's not real.

00:20:28Guest:Yeah.

00:20:28Marc:Authentic.

00:20:29Guest:Yeah, and it's more like, if you don't like it, it's like, honey, grab your bag and let's go.

00:20:33Guest:That's it.

00:20:33Guest:Yeah, that's the most you could do.

00:20:35Marc:You can't package him, can't put him in a box, can't dismiss the guy.

00:20:38Marc:You can't dismiss him.

00:20:39Guest:Yeah, you can not like him, but you really just have to walk away.

00:20:42Marc:That's right.

00:20:43Guest:That's it.

00:20:43Marc:There's no condescending that guy.

00:20:45Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:46Marc:And he was sort of, for all the kids, he was the guy.

00:20:50Guest:Well, yeah, and he really led by example, and I don't think he was consciously leading, which made it even better.

00:20:57Guest:And he was, you know, he.

00:21:00Guest:So he wasn't arrogant.

00:21:01Guest:He wasn't like a teacher.

00:21:02Guest:He was the opposite of that.

00:21:03Guest:He really he he just was encouraging, you know, play at his house.

00:21:08Guest:He he would host parties, too, and played at his house when I was 13 or 14 years old.

00:21:13Guest:And he was like, man, this is great.

00:21:15Guest:You got that's great.

00:21:16Guest:You got to keep going.

00:21:17Guest:you know whether he believed that or not i have no idea but he really sort of pushed that um sort of diversity too he listened to like deep purple zappa black flag right it was all over the motown and he had all the records yeah and he had all the posters on the wall so you'd play his house and you'd say who's herb albert that's the greatest album cover i've ever seen

00:21:39Marc:you have to have that guy though yeah don't you like look back on your life i mean what are you 40 now yeah i just turned 40 because i talk about that a lot there's one defining there's a few in your life but that first one that makes you realize there's a bigger world out there yeah beyond school yeah and there's possibilities and it's weird yeah and this guy's okay with it and i'm okay with that guy so he must know something yeah and it's made of clay and you can sculpt your own yeah shit yeah you know

00:22:04Marc:So when you first started playing with a band with whatever became Caius, I mean, were you doing covers?

00:22:11Marc:Were you just right out of the gate just plowing away and creating the groove?

00:22:14Guest:I mean, our covers were Ramones and Discharge and GBH, a couple songs like that.

00:22:19Guest:But really, we chased originals right away because that was the music scene.

00:22:23Guest:Right.

00:22:24Guest:And the music scene in the desert was if you sound like someone else, and it was kind of...

00:22:28Guest:It was everyone's interpretation, I think, to a certain degree of what Boomer was doing, which was, if you sound like someone else, you'll be ridiculed.

00:22:36Guest:Right.

00:22:37Marc:You can't even... Certainly, that's what I took from it.

00:22:42Marc:Well, no, I think it's a great thing to take, but the weird thing is that...

00:22:45Marc:With music, it seems like music references, eventually, you're going to reference something.

00:22:52Marc:Sure.

00:22:52Marc:Because you've got to figure it out.

00:22:54Marc:Yeah.

00:22:55Marc:But even, like, I remember someone gave me the second Caius album.

00:22:59Marc:What was that, 94 or something, 92?

00:23:01Marc:Yeah, 92.

00:23:02Marc:Yeah, because I was living in New York, and my buddy was writing on music for, you know, out in the sticks somewhere.

00:23:07Marc:And he sends me that CD, and I'm like, what the fuck is this?

00:23:10Marc:Yeah.

00:23:10Marc:Because it was almost like it had a kind of a muted mystical push to it.

00:23:15Guest:Well, that was part of us trying to find what was us and amplify just that.

00:23:22Guest:Because if you sounded like someone else in the desert because no one's paying for music, it's just free.

00:23:29Guest:The shows are just free.

00:23:30Guest:It's not for pussy or drugs or fame.

00:23:34Guest:There's just nothing of that there.

00:23:37Guest:It was pure.

00:23:38Guest:It really was pure.

00:23:40Guest:It was very pure.

00:23:41Guest:And if someone doesn't like you, instead of booing you, they do nothing.

00:23:45Guest:So you end a song and go, boom, and all you hear is, ah, it's the worst.

00:23:49Guest:All you hear is the desert.

00:23:50Guest:It's still the toughest crowd in the world.

00:23:52Guest:The desert?

00:23:52Guest:Yeah.

00:23:54Guest:I love it for that, though.

00:23:55Marc:You go back.

00:23:56Marc:Do you live there still?

00:23:57Guest:We played.

00:23:57Guest:There's a place, the McCallum Theater out there.

00:24:00Guest:And it was a place that would have that always there was no chance to ever play there.

00:24:05Guest:Right.

00:24:06Guest:And, you know, we played a benefit for, you know, just to donate stuff for locally.

00:24:12Guest:And.

00:24:13Guest:So to play there was a real triumph and had Fatso Jetson open up.

00:24:17Guest:And we just sort of... Boomer and I looked at each other like... Like, dude, we're where they have the sound of music.

00:24:27Marc:We've arrived.

00:24:27Marc:Literally, the sound of music.

00:24:28Marc:It was just there last week.

00:24:30Marc:Yeah.

00:24:30Marc:So that's... All right.

00:24:32Marc:Well, so you go through this period where...

00:24:35Marc:uh with kaius i mean because i i listened to the records like i was i was a little uptight about making sure that i was on the on the pulse of of your evolution somehow yeah i could wrap my brain around it so i got a fucking brain full of your shit today yeah oh good yeah no it is good now before i go crash course yeah before i well i mean i knew the records and i like that kaius record had a you know pretty pretty big effect on me because at that time you know all that shit was happening sub pop was starting to happen everything was fucking changing and

00:25:04Guest:Yeah, little scenes were occurring.

00:25:05Marc:I was already 30.

00:25:06Marc:Yeah.

00:25:07Marc:And I thought I was pretty grounded musically, but then all this shit started coming in.

00:25:12Marc:Dinosaur Jr.

00:25:13Marc:and all that.

00:25:14Marc:It was just like, what is happening?

00:25:16Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:17Marc:So you're in the middle of that.

00:25:21Marc:And before we go further, though, what is the desert scene now?

00:25:24Marc:I mean, all those guys you start out with, and I know there's a lot of them, and I can't say that I know their names, but I mean, are they all still at it?

00:25:30Marc:Are you guys friends in the big picture for the most part?

00:25:33Guest:Boomer is definitely still at it.

00:25:35Guest:He lives in Pasadena now.

00:25:37Marc:Right down the street here.

00:25:37Guest:Yeah.

00:25:39Guest:And he's still... To me, he was always a few years ahead of his time, and it's the...

00:25:45Guest:The commercial downside of walking point is that you sort of expose people to something, but don't maybe get the recognition for it that you deserve.

00:25:55Marc:Believe me.

00:25:56Marc:There's a thousand podcasts.

00:25:57Guest:They're doing really good.

00:26:01Marc:Sure.

00:26:01Marc:Yeah.

00:26:01Marc:They're great.

00:26:02Guest:Yeah.

00:26:03Guest:That's what you got to say.

00:26:04Guest:I was just happy to help out.

00:26:06Guest:Yeah, as long as I could be the step.

00:26:08Marc:Yeah, I always wonder.

00:26:10Marc:It takes a big person to be that guy and not be bitter.

00:26:13Marc:Because behind every genius, there's a guy saying, he stole that shit from me.

00:26:16Marc:Exactly.

00:26:16Marc:And he fucking did.

00:26:18Marc:He did.

00:26:19Marc:He fucking did.

00:26:20Marc:And he knows he did, but he'll never admit it because he can't.

00:26:22Marc:That son of a bitch.

00:26:23Marc:Yeah, fuck him.

00:26:25Marc:So, all right, so you guys all get along for the most part, the desert scene, and you're sort of a champion of it in a way?

00:26:31Guest:Well, I mean, I think... I mean, to be honest, I don't really hold a flag for anything because that's not my way, and I think that was the point.

00:26:40Guest:It was, you know... It was...

00:26:43Guest:It was about being an individual.

00:26:45Guest:Right.

00:26:45Guest:And so trying to get a bunch of individuals to be a group is tough.

00:26:51Guest:Yeah, especially artists.

00:26:52Guest:And there's bands in the desert still, but there's still nowhere to play.

00:26:56Guest:Right.

00:26:56Guest:There's still not many people to watch them.

00:26:58Guest:And I guess Boomer's generator's not there anymore.

00:27:00Guest:He took the generator.

00:27:01Guest:Yeah.

00:27:01Guest:well and the kids are like the generator power to the turntables yeah right so what when uh when what did you like what were your folks how why were you out there um my my my grandparents were from north dakota and and then my like scandinavian yeah yeah we're norwegian

00:27:20Marc:so you're a norwegian in the desert that's got so you've got this kind of you know nordic i'm gonna go you know with viking sensibility and there you are with no boat yeah in the middle of the sun i'm so white i'm clear yeah yeah yeah and well and my so my they moved out there when my old my old man was like in high school so he's been out there forever and he's a general contractor and

00:27:43Guest:is he is he all sun-baked and yeah he's just he's a hard-working badass he's kind of my hero you know and and you know a contractor that hasn't been in the phone book for 20 years because it's referral it's like everyone hates their contract everyone knows your dad yeah but my dad's like he's solid he's a he's a he's a doer yeah and you always got along with him oh yeah yeah so you were never a fuck up

00:28:04Guest:Well, I was, but I was more afraid of my old man than I was anything else, you know.

00:28:10Guest:Than the law.

00:28:10Guest:You know, if you get in trouble, you know, I got caught with alcohol and a knife at school at 13.

00:28:16Guest:A knife?

00:28:16Guest:Well, knives are awesome and, you know, I'm a boy.

00:28:20Guest:Yeah.

00:28:20Guest:night we're in the desert it's like gotta have a knife how else do you kill a scorpion but to pierce him with your own knife that's right and uh i was really more of all the school punishment and the alcohol classes and that you had to go to yeah yeah but it was really i had to get up and go to work with my old man at like 3 30 in the morning yeah yeah yeah and that was that was the scary one

00:28:41Guest:Yeah, cleaning a storm drain in the early part of the summer is not the way to go.

00:28:45Marc:So, all right, so when you stopped, when Caius sort of, when you evolved out of that and started with the Queens, I mean, because there is a fairly distinct break in the tone of it.

00:28:57Guest:you know things got a little more crisp a little more driving a little more defined pounding wise in terms of guitar was that something you knew that you were going to do well i mean i honestly i just i wanted you know we grew up playing parties i grew up playing parties and and and parties have girls at them yeah and

00:29:19Guest:and i my feminine side is quite large you know and and so i just started feeling stuff and wanting to say more a broader array of things that maybe caius was you know that started when i was 14 years old so you're saying you were you were sort of uh kind of boxed into a a macho rock aesthetic yeah you know that angry sure you stop being angry and you start being well horny and

00:29:46Guest:yeah and and you start reading books and yeah traveling a little bit and you know um so when really iggy had a really huge influence on me did he yeah that he was sitting right there i know that's what i'm pulling myself down to the chair will that rub off on me yeah definitely i think it has already lust for life and the idiot those two records changed my life right

00:30:11Marc:Because when you say feminine side, you just mean your sensitive side in a way, or that you sort of wanted to get through the anger and kind of connect with something that was a little closer to your heart?

00:30:23Guest:Well, I mean, anger's great to have in your tank to get you started, but it's awful to run on just anger alone as a gasoline.

00:30:31Marc:Right, and generally when you have that anger in you, you can tap it anytime.

00:30:36Marc:Yeah, it's easily touchable.

00:30:38Marc:It's right there when you need it.

00:30:39Guest:Like a sensitive touch.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah.

00:30:41Guest:But you start to realize the more vulnerable you are musically, the better it gets and the more useful, cathartic tool it is.

00:30:52Guest:Right.

00:30:52Guest:And it's just better when you just let it go and don't be pinned in by what you think someone else might like.

00:31:00Guest:And Iggy sort of spoke to that in you?

00:31:03Guest:Well, Iggy always had this sort of, you know, I mean, just lyrically songs like The Passenger or Sweet 16 or Neighborhood Threat.

00:31:12Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:13Guest:Or, you know, nightclubbing.

00:31:15Guest:Crazy.

00:31:15Marc:There was sort of a kind of like, you know, like,

00:31:17Guest:what is this guy fucking yeah exactly like so loose where it's like i'm i'm uh i'm beyond the constraints of whatever you just thought on all levels yeah you know sexuality yeah uh you know song wise performance wise you're like you don't even know where to put that guy in in your brain yeah it's just beyond you right so it's just beyond you and it remains that way

00:31:39Guest:With that guy.

00:31:40Guest:He still is that way.

00:31:41Guest:It's still like I just cut myself and my dick is out.

00:31:44Guest:Hi, how are you?

00:31:45Guest:Are we okay?

00:31:46Guest:Is it cool?

00:31:47Guest:Are you okay?

00:31:50Guest:Can I sit here like this?

00:31:52Guest:What is that?

00:31:53Guest:It's just an otherworldly thing that he really has that just totally speaks to me because it's also that notion of we don't work at a bank and so let's get loose.

00:32:03Marc:Yeah, let's push it.

00:32:05Marc:We can define whatever the hell we want.

00:32:07Guest:Yeah, you can't know what too far is until you go too far.

00:32:10Guest:You don't know where the line is until you cross it.

00:32:12Marc:Right.

00:32:13Marc:So that was what happened when you left Caius.

00:32:15Guest:Yeah, I literally heard those records towards the end of Caius, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

00:32:20Marc:Not even the Stooges.

00:32:21Marc:It was those Iggy records.

00:32:23Guest:That's what I heard first.

00:32:25Guest:Yeah, Less for Life, it's a monster record.

00:32:27Guest:And both of those records are incredible.

00:32:29Guest:Well, also what I came to sort of understand is that people hated the Stooges, too.

00:32:38Guest:They spawned a thousand bands, but they never got understood until about three years ago.

00:32:43Marc:Well, he defied everybody.

00:32:45Marc:He defied everybody to like him.

00:32:47Marc:Yeah.

00:32:48Marc:I dare you.

00:32:49Marc:Yeah.

00:32:49Marc:Come on.

00:32:50Marc:What are you going to do with this?

00:32:51Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:32:51Marc:And, you know, those of us who sort of got on board with it, I mean, the Stooges, you know, in retrospect, were just a great rock and roll band, but Iggy as a being.

00:33:00Marc:Yeah.

00:33:01Marc:Like with Luster, I interviewed Hunt Sales.

00:33:04Guest:Yeah, I jammed with Hunt.

00:33:05Guest:We tried him out as the drummer for Queens at one point.

00:33:09Marc:How was that?

00:33:11Guest:We... Let's just say I drove him downtown a couple times.

00:33:14Guest:Yeah.

00:33:16Guest:But you know what he said that was really amazing that I'll never forget is he said we were talking about... We were looking for a drummer and we were jamming with Hunt Sales and he said...

00:33:26Guest:You know, good drummer, good band, but great drummer, classic band.

00:33:33Guest:And it's so true.

00:33:33Guest:That's so true.

00:33:34Marc:It's so true.

00:33:37Marc:He's a trip, man.

00:33:39Marc:Yeah, he's a trip.

00:33:39Marc:Yeah, he's on and off the stuff.

00:33:41Marc:And I haven't put that interview up, but I was sort of obsessed with the guy.

00:33:44Marc:But primarily because him and his brother were a great rhythm section.

00:33:48Marc:Hunt and Tony.

00:33:49Marc:Yeah, but they're Soupy's kids.

00:33:50Marc:And part of me is like, your dad's Soupy's sales.

00:33:53Guest:That's got to be interesting.

00:33:55Guest:Yeah, but what a way to get out of the shadow.

00:33:57Guest:It's like the rhythm section that parties.

00:34:00Marc:But when you talk to him, they weren't that attached.

00:34:05Marc:you know like his dad took off when he was like 17 and he was just wandering around new york hanging out at electric ladyland studios and manny's music sure yeah so like his whole riff is is a different thing yeah but that one drum beat just the opening of less for life i mean that that's fucking monumental which i heard i don't know if it's true but i heard they were watching george of the jungle because they're in berlin and it's like boom boom boom boom boom boom

00:34:29Guest:And then it's... Oh, man.

00:34:33Marc:And here I thought it was just some sort of like Bo Diddley riff, but no, it's Georgia to the jungle.

00:34:38Guest:I don't know if that's true, but I'm holding onto that as if it were because that makes me so happy.

00:34:43Marc:Yeah.

00:34:44Marc:So when you were putting together that band, because I don't know anything about this, because I'm not a band guy.

00:34:50Marc:I got some guitars.

00:34:51Marc:Epiphone just sent me that thing.

00:34:52Marc:I got lucky.

00:34:53Marc:Yeah.

00:34:53Marc:and i got a couple guitars and i play here but uh but i don't know van dynamics and like uh the queens seems to be notorious for an ever evolving sort of lineup well what the hell causes problems well honestly i think you should sort of if you're if you i always say if you expect anything from music you expect too much yeah you know i i you need to play it because you love it and

00:35:19Guest:not be so... From my perspective, I can't be overly careerist about it.

00:35:25Guest:And if you make a song that someone loves, it certainly doesn't mean that you are worthy of someone else's love.

00:35:32Guest:You know what I mean?

00:35:33Guest:Well, there must be a constant misunderstanding.

00:35:35Guest:It is.

00:35:36Guest:There's two bubbles.

00:35:38Guest:There's the bubble of the fan and the bubble of the band.

00:35:40Guest:And they're kind of concentric circles.

00:35:42Guest:They have a little overlap there.

00:35:45Guest:But they really shouldn't pop each other's bubbles.

00:35:49Guest:Because I sort of believe you need to be on your knees at the altar of rock.

00:35:54Guest:Yeah.

00:35:55Guest:Not the fan.

00:35:55Guest:Yeah.

00:35:57Guest:Of rock.

00:35:57Guest:Yeah.

00:35:58Guest:Right.

00:35:58Guest:And, you know, I just, I feel like you have to, I don't know, maybe it's my dad too, but it's just like you got to work.

00:36:08Guest:Right.

00:36:09Guest:Work and bleed for it.

00:36:10Guest:Right.

00:36:10Guest:I think that's why Iggy speaks to me too.

00:36:12Guest:Right.

00:36:13Guest:If you need to bleed, it should be you that does the wound, not anyone else.

00:36:17Guest:Right.

00:36:18Guest:You know?

00:36:18Guest:Uh-huh.

00:36:19Guest:And that you should go way out on the edge like that.

00:36:22Guest:And if...

00:36:24Guest:Whatever happens is necessary to make the music right.

00:36:30Marc:I think comedy is that way too.

00:36:32Marc:What does that say about band relationships?

00:36:34Marc:Some guys are willing to go that place or some guys get limited in terms of how come it's hard to keep a band together.

00:36:41Guest:Well, it's a strange marriage of, you know, desires.

00:36:46Guest:And, you know, what we have in Queens is it really is by consensus, you know, and I don't allow there to be any secrets or cliques or, you know, you need to sort of have that good communication down because the worst thing you could ever have in a band is role envy.

00:37:03Guest:Like the bass player wants to be the drummer, the drummer wants to be the singer.

00:37:06Guest:And the worst thing you could have is passive-aggressive

00:37:11Guest:undercurrent you know happening because it just eats away a band really needs to be like a gang right and that gang needs to be proud of itself right and and and sort of that's the only flag i'm willing to carry is for my band right you go play a festival and you

00:37:27Guest:put your flag in the ground and you say, all comers.

00:37:31Guest:Yeah.

00:37:31Guest:I'll tell you, you know.

00:37:32Guest:Yeah.

00:37:33Guest:And you need to be proud of that.

00:37:34Guest:And there can't be this passive aggressive undercurrent.

00:37:37Marc:Like somebody stealing, you know, kind of stealing stage in order to, you know, sort of like show their own dissatisfaction with the band.

00:37:47Guest:Well, and just, you need to be honest about your desires for a band to work.

00:37:53Guest:Right.

00:37:54Guest:And that way... Because if you're the drummer and you want to be the singer, fucking be the singer, dude.

00:38:01Guest:You know what I mean?

00:38:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:02Guest:Like, don't... Why wait?

00:38:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:05Guest:And if you can't do it in this band, go do it somewhere else.

00:38:07Guest:Well, absolutely.

00:38:08Marc:Yeah.

00:38:09Guest:Because there's no time.

00:38:12Guest:Risk it all now.

00:38:13Guest:Right now.

00:38:14Guest:And I also think, too, that...

00:38:16Guest:As you start to have a little success, there's no advice that can help you to navigate those waters.

00:38:23Guest:And some people don't handle it well.

00:38:25Marc:Well, I think some people also are afraid that if they do step out on their own or they do do what they want to do, that the possibility of rejection overshadows their ability to go out there.

00:38:35Guest:Absolutely.

00:38:36Guest:I mean, I call it punk rock guilt because that's what I grew up listening to.

00:38:39Marc:Right.

00:38:39Guest:Do well, but don't do too well.

00:38:41Guest:There's that safety and failure.

00:38:43Marc:No kidding.

00:38:44Guest:Where it's like, you don't understand.

00:38:45Guest:And that's the whole fucking point.

00:38:47Guest:Right.

00:38:47Guest:Yeah.

00:38:47Marc:You can always blame something.

00:38:49Guest:Yeah.

00:38:49Guest:You don't get it.

00:38:50Marc:Yeah.

00:38:51Marc:Yeah.

00:38:51Marc:You just don't get it.

00:38:52Marc:Yeah.

00:38:52Marc:And then when it comes right down to it, they're probably not working hard enough.

00:38:55Guest:on some level.

00:38:56Guest:Yeah, and you're not letting your fear go.

00:38:59Guest:That's hard, man.

00:39:00Guest:It's hard, but it's worth it, though.

00:39:04Marc:Right, but that was the first step you took out of anger into opening your heart more and being honest.

00:39:09Marc:Yeah, and just saying,

00:39:11Guest:Well, I think that's the importance of doing something because you love it.

00:39:16Guest:Because I work on a record until I really love it.

00:39:19Guest:And now, because I really love it and I'm proud of it, now you can use the CD as a coaster and I don't care.

00:39:25Guest:Because I did my part.

00:39:27Guest:Yeah, that's your fault now.

00:39:29Guest:Right.

00:39:30Guest:but that's what makes it okay to me and that requires being leaving it all on the you know right putting it all out there so when a fan goes no I don't feel really like this record you're like I do yeah it's like I totally understand and this has been great yeah you know yeah but it's also good night now well yeah but but that's a weird thing though because it took me a while like you know I can't I had Nick Lowe in here and I just kept assuming Nick Lowe's cool

00:39:57Marc:He's cool, but I kept assuming that the guy talking that the songwriter was writing about himself.

00:40:05Marc:And a lot of songwriters are not.

00:40:08Marc:And it bothered me.

00:40:09Marc:I was like, when he sat there and played the beast in me, I'm like, man, you've been through some shit.

00:40:14Marc:He's like, it's not, it's a song.

00:40:17Marc:It's a character.

00:40:18Marc:I'm like, what do you mean?

00:40:19Marc:That's a dark fucking anthem.

00:40:21Guest:No, but I'm like you.

00:40:23Guest:I need it to be...

00:40:25Marc:a part of something i really understand well you're like that yeah i mean like you know like i had this weird uh thing with the new record because you know i know a couple of the old records and you know people are like this one you know laura's telling me your publicist is like this is the one and i listened to it i'm like all right well i mean it's different than the other ones doesn't i'm not rocking as hard yeah and then like i listened to it twice yesterday and i realized like oh man to get into this i i there's some emotional risk here yeah and

00:40:53Marc:in really processing what you're talking about on this record.

00:40:58Guest:Well, I think that I want something to, 10 years from now, you could, like I listen to Credence and I feel like I can put it on now and it still sounds right.

00:41:09Guest:Dude, have you listened to it on vinyl?

00:41:11Guest:That's how I listen to it, yeah.

00:41:13Marc:Those fucking first four records of fantasy?

00:41:16Marc:That's crazy.

00:41:17Guest:And it sounds, to me it sounds contemporary because it's natural and it's just, you know.

00:41:21Marc:There's no mud anymore.

00:41:22Guest:Yeah, it's the space between the sounds that's so good.

00:41:26Guest:It's crazy.

00:41:27Guest:And I also think emotionally you need to make that same move so that on the 50th, and I like details, like little tiny details, so that on the 50th listen you go, did I just hear a bell?

00:41:38Guest:Was that a what the hell?

00:41:39Guest:And that makes sometimes a record, or some of our records, you have to listen to it five times.

00:41:46Guest:And you don't always get someone's time.

00:41:47Guest:No one's got time anymore.

00:41:49Guest:So you don't always get someone to make it to that fifth listen.

00:41:51Marc:But that is also you honoring your loyalty to what you're doing in that, and you've been pretty open about that on record, literally in the music, that mediocrity is a drag.

00:42:04Marc:Repetition of pop music is a drag.

00:42:07Marc:The way the music business is structured is a fucking nightmare.

00:42:10Guest:And I just feel like if this is what I get to do, then I'm going to go as far as I understand I can go.

00:42:20Guest:In terms of artistically, this is not the time to half-ass something.

00:42:27Marc:Yeah, life is very clear.

00:42:29Marc:You made it fairly clear on this new record that life isn't forever.

00:42:33Marc:And it isn't for everyone either.

00:42:36Yeah.

00:42:36Marc:well fogarty's a good example i talked to that guy and a lot of those songs i mean he's an emotional dude yeah and that shit comes from a real place you know what was it tomorrow never comes yeah that that album that song or have you ever seen the light i mean i cry thinking about that song yeah yeah i know it but that isn't that what it's for yeah to save you in those moments and and it's to sit next to you and go man i i get it yeah

00:43:00Guest:Yeah.

00:43:01Guest:Not even it's going to be all right.

00:43:02Guest:Right.

00:43:02Guest:It's not always going to be all right.

00:43:04Guest:No, most of the time it's not.

00:43:05Guest:You're just pretending it is.

00:43:07Guest:Sometimes you just need something to emotionally like two smokes and hand you one.

00:43:10Guest:Yeah, right.

00:43:12Guest:We have one with you.

00:43:14Marc:We're both in the foxhole.

00:43:15Marc:Yeah.

00:43:15Guest:This isn't going well.

00:43:17Guest:Yeah.

00:43:17Guest:But together it's not good.

00:43:18Guest:Yeah.

00:43:19Marc:Yeah.

00:43:19Marc:Well, I mean, what you're talking about, too, in terms of, like, I don't know you, but I don't know Dave either.

00:43:26Marc:But, you know, I talked to Grohl, and he's a guy that, I mean, you've worked with him.

00:43:31Guest:Can I say, I was stoked for him when he came on this show.

00:43:35Really?

00:43:35Guest:He was so excited.

00:43:37Guest:Because, well, I told him, like, you need to listen to this podcast, like, you know, about two years ago.

00:43:42Guest:Right.

00:43:43Guest:And I was like, oh, man, it gets to the heart of it, and it talks real things and blah, blah, blah.

00:43:46Guest:Yeah.

00:43:47Guest:And so when he was going to come on, he's like, dude, I'm going on.

00:43:51Guest:And I said, and I totally worked him up.

00:43:53Guest:It was, you know.

00:43:53Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:54Marc:But he's such a, like, he's a guy that musically, I mean, he sat and played drums in one of the biggest bands ever.

00:44:01Marc:Yeah.

00:44:02Marc:And then just sort of like, nah, I'm going to.

00:44:03Marc:I got to play guitar.

00:44:04Marc:Yeah.

00:44:05Marc:I mean, he was able to make that transition and nobody really thought twice about it because he's awesome, right?

00:44:09Marc:Well, they did actually.

00:44:11Guest:You know, as I recall... Yeah, what do I know?

00:44:13Guest:You would know better.

00:44:14Guest:Well, you know, he was the drummer of Nirvana.

00:44:18Guest:Yeah.

00:44:19Guest:And, you know, when he recorded that first record all by himself, played everything...

00:44:24Guest:And I think at first when he said here, I got these songs that it was kind of like, yeah.

00:44:30Guest:Yeah.

00:44:30Guest:And just one sec though.

00:44:31Guest:Yeah.

00:44:32Guest:You know, I mean, I was in Nirvana, but it was also like, is there any way we can make Nirvana work without him?

00:44:36Guest:Yeah.

00:44:37Guest:Yeah.

00:44:37Guest:But you're the drummer.

00:44:38Guest:So just, if you just hold on one sec and you're the like fourth drummer of, you know, and I mean, so in a songwriting perspective, I think he, he did have some hurdles and then you put on that first record and you're like, oh, that's some badass shit.

00:44:51Marc:Yeah.

00:44:51Marc:right and also with you guys too that i realized you know coming from and i think you do too but like somehow or another from a pop music from growing up with with even rock pop popular rock music that like on this record i there's some part of everybody i think that craves hooks and if you want to fight hooks you're doing it on purpose yeah because you're like well that's easy yeah but like when i was listening even to the new record it's like oh there it is yeah i mean

00:45:16Guest:I need hooks.

00:45:18Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:20Guest:I need it to be like a fucking bait shop where there's hooks everywhere because dissonance and just that stuff gets old quickly to me.

00:45:30Guest:We do a little bit of that.

00:45:30Guest:You put it in there somewhere.

00:45:32Guest:Yeah, but it needs to be dissonance wrapped around a hook.

00:45:36Marc:Sure.

00:45:37Marc:But I was just listening to ZZ Top because, you know, I decided to.

00:45:40Marc:And then you came in and said, like, I love this fucking record.

00:45:43Marc:I mean, even if you listen to that, those blues grooves, I mean, a lot of those songs were not unlike, you know, Caius in that, you know, they just kept going.

00:45:50Guest:Yeah.

00:45:51Marc:And it was just driven by, you know, weird orchestration of licks.

00:45:54Guest:Yeah.

00:45:55Guest:But one great lick you could repeat forever.

00:45:58Guest:Sure.

00:45:58Marc:Yeah.

00:45:58Guest:So if it is a hook, it's like, just go ahead and set that thing over and over.

00:46:02Guest:Why not?

00:46:03Guest:Yeah.

00:46:04Marc:What were you saying about the drum sound of ZZ Top?

00:46:06Guest:Well, it's such a great drum sound.

00:46:08Guest:The early stuff.

00:46:08Guest:Yeah, it's this tight, dry, sort of vacuous, beautiful sound.

00:46:14Guest:And so I've used it as a sonic reference when I'm in the studio of what to chase after for years.

00:46:22Marc:Really?

00:46:22Guest:Yeah.

00:46:23Guest:Yeah, I love all that stuff.

00:46:24Marc:And when you played with Billy, what was that like?

00:46:26Guest:That was, I mean, for me, that was one of the huge moments of my career was like, and really at the time he really hadn't jammed with many outsiders in years.

00:46:41Guest:And luckily there were some people at his management that were into Queens and kind of...

00:46:45Guest:said, no, you should try this.

00:46:48Marc:And that was on the Lollabies album.

00:46:49Marc:Yeah.

00:46:50Marc:What's the song called?

00:46:50Marc:Which?

00:46:51Marc:Burn the Witch.

00:46:52Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:53Guest:Well, I got him in there under the guise of we were doing Precious and Grace.

00:46:56Guest:But then I said, but I have this thing.

00:46:57Guest:Yeah.

00:46:58Guest:And he's got this certain lick that only he does that goes... Like...

00:47:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:47:06Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:07Guest:And I was always like, how do... It's a slide thing.

00:47:12Guest:Well, what I found out, because I said, I deserve to know what that is.

00:47:15Marc:Yeah.

00:47:16Guest:Because I can play Birdo if I want, but there's a way you're doing it.

00:47:19Guest:Yeah.

00:47:20Guest:And he'll bend a note and then tap, you know, Eddie Van Halen's tapping on the back.

00:47:26Guest:Right.

00:47:27Guest:But he's doing it once.

00:47:28Guest:He's going, Birdo.

00:47:30Guest:And just holding it.

00:47:31Guest:And holding it.

00:47:32Guest:And instead of a million taps, it's one.

00:47:34Guest:Yeah.

00:47:35Guest:And I was, and it was so simple.

00:47:36Guest:I was like, you're fucking kidding me.

00:47:40Guest:And it was so awesome.

00:47:41Guest:And when we were jamming together, actually he was playing the lead on that song and he was playing this lead and his beard gently like floated down and hit the strings and made this harmonic.

00:47:53Guest:No, come on.

00:47:54Guest:Yeah.

00:47:54Guest:I swear it's on film.

00:47:56Guest:Yeah.

00:47:57Guest:And I literally, I really, I literally grab him by the shoulders.

00:48:00Guest:I'm shaking Billy Gibbons.

00:48:01Guest:I go, dude, you did the first ever beard harmonic.

00:48:04Marc:yeah did you and you were able to were you able to isolate it and have it yeah it's on it's on the recording definitely yeah yeah so what like it's been a while since a record right been like two two thousand seven the previous one yeah but you did other stuff you're out in the desert you know i didn't listen to eagles of death metal sorry i didn't get to that i'll send you that stuff is i mean i'm in that band but

00:48:30Guest:But somehow, because I don't tour with the Eagles that much, I feel distant from it in that I feel like I can objectively say that shit is awesome.

00:48:39Guest:Yeah.

00:48:39Guest:It's like Rolling Stones boogie.

00:48:43Guest:I'll send you some.

00:48:44Marc:God damn it.

00:48:45Marc:I couldn't get to everything.

00:48:46Guest:God damn it.

00:48:47Guest:No, but I think you would dig it looking at your room and your record collection, and I know that you're going to dig that band.

00:48:54Marc:Yeah, it's on vinyl?

00:48:55Guest:Yeah, I'll send you something.

00:48:57Guest:The singer, who I affectionately call Boots Electric, because he rollerblades, and that's a long story.

00:49:04Guest:He's got this glorious mustache that he's had since high school, and he's just a strange guy.

00:49:10Guest:Is he a desert guy?

00:49:11Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:49:12Guest:We went to high school together.

00:49:13Guest:Yeah.

00:49:14Guest:Every decade of a mustache comes along.

00:49:17Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:49:18Guest:And this decade is Jesse Hughes is his name.

00:49:21Marc:You don't seem to have a lot of trouble surrendering stage a bit.

00:49:25Marc:Yeah, I don't mind that at all.

00:49:26Marc:And, you know, like, you know, in your partnering with like Lanigan and stuff.

00:49:29Marc:I mean, there's a democracy, a democratic spirit about it.

00:49:34Guest:Well, I want to be part of something great.

00:49:38Guest:And I don't care if I have to make tea for it.

00:49:40Guest:It doesn't matter.

00:49:40Guest:And I don't care if it's an hour long and I'm five seconds of it.

00:49:45Guest:I don't care.

00:49:46Guest:Because I just want to be part of something that could be classic.

00:49:50Guest:Yeah.

00:49:53Guest:and that's kind of it and and and other people are really great at shit and um and everyone else should know that you know right like lanagan is incredible great singer and so if i'm doing something and and i'm there and and it makes it better in any way like then that's great yeah that's that's a great way to be and i don't know that a lot of artists are able to do that

00:50:16Marc:Because I feel the same way.

00:50:18Guest:Well, the thing that happens if you're willing to sort of surrender to that process is that a lot of great opportunities happen where it's just impossible to say no.

00:50:30Marc:Right.

00:50:31Marc:If you don't let your pride get in the way

00:50:33Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:50:34Guest:And I really think that, you know, I'm sort of a fatalist, but I think you kind of enact your own fate by those decisions you make sort of precede you, you know?

00:50:44Marc:Oh, absolutely.

00:50:45Marc:If you're a douchebag, it'll come back at you.

00:50:47Guest:Yeah, like the douche door knocks you in the face later.

00:50:51Marc:Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

00:50:52Marc:You're going to get hit with it.

00:50:53Guest:You're in it with a nozzle in your face.

00:50:55Guest:The douche nozzle.

00:50:57Guest:Yeah.

00:50:57Guest:And the water pouring over you.

00:51:00Guest:You hope it's water.

00:51:02Guest:Yeah, so that's why I don't mind being any part of a collaboration.

00:51:09Guest:And also, that's the only way I can learn anything, because I'm not trained.

00:51:13Guest:I'm not a trained musician.

00:51:16Marc:but sure you are i mean does that really matter after a certain point i mean if you put the yeah if you put the hours in i mean you're a trained musician yeah i mean it's like you know you sit there and you you watch i had jay mascus in here and it's like where the fuck does that guitar sound come from yeah and yeah and you're the same i mean you know you listen to you know your signature sort of style it's it's defined it's honed it's it's it's confident you're trained yeah yeah well yeah i think you want someone to know it's you within about three seconds you know well you

00:51:43Guest:But see, I'm such a comedy guy, too.

00:51:45Guest:I feel like it's the exact same.

00:51:47Guest:Like, you know, when I was nine, I saw George Carlin on an accident at the Desert Inn.

00:51:53Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:54Guest:My dad and my grandparents and my brother.

00:51:56Guest:They took you?

00:51:57Guest:Yeah, like, well, George Carlin's funny, right?

00:52:00Guest:kids can come yeah we we'd have never swore in front of my mom or my grandparents and went and see george carlin and it changed my life you know that obsession with words yeah yeah and the fucking man yeah yeah yeah yeah sure sure where it's like they're definitely lying to you know catholics and uh-huh he blew your mind he fucking blew my mind how old were you nine yeah same year i started playing guitar you know

00:52:25Marc:So it all worked, everything was working out.

00:52:27Marc:Nine was a big year for me.

00:52:29Marc:Yeah, you had a guitar.

00:52:31Marc:Guitarland, my next band.

00:52:34Marc:That'd be a good name for a band.

00:52:36Guest:That's actually not bad.

00:52:37Guest:I actually own all the websites of that, so don't try.

00:52:40Marc:Okay, yeah, you're copywriting it right now as we speak.

00:52:42Marc:So that's interesting.

00:52:43Marc:So he pulled the veil away.

00:52:45Guest:and his obsession with words too you know and I sort of just got like it's important to know how to communicate that way you know it doesn't matter if it's that bit where he's like Mr. Carlin get on the plane fuck you I'm getting in the plane leave that for the daredevils you're like oh my god that's right well that notion that people are using rhetoric to fuck with you all the time and don't let them do that

00:53:14Guest:Well, I think that, like, a lot of your songwriting strips that shit away.

00:53:17Guest:Yeah, I think I hate organized groups of any size over three people.

00:53:22Guest:Yeah.

00:53:23Guest:A band.

00:53:24Guest:Yeah, basically.

00:53:28Marc:Touche, you asshole.

00:53:29Marc:Yeah, I get it.

00:53:31Marc:I get it.

00:53:31Marc:Yeah.

00:53:32Marc:Yeah.

00:53:32Marc:So when I listen to R-Rated or even the huge album, Songs for the Deaf and stuff, is that there is a fighting spirit and there is sort of some... For some reason, I got the sense.

00:53:45Marc:Now, talking to you, I don't get that sense at all, but what I make up about people...

00:53:48Marc:And I think a lot of people do, especially with musicians, because there's an image involved, there's a sound involved, there's a songwriting involved.

00:53:55Marc:You decide who that guy is based on what he's putting out there.

00:53:58Marc:And I thought you were gonna be this aggressive, troubled, fighting fucking guy.

00:54:04Guest:No, I really think I like to make people happy, but I like to poke people more than I like to make them happy.

00:54:13Marc:But there was never a point where post-Caius, the anger and the pain of it all, or you never had a profound sort of relationship with substance?

00:54:22Marc:What?

00:54:23Guest:Well, I mean, I've...

00:54:28Guest:I know that my band is notorious for sort of partying and stuff like that.

00:54:32Guest:And over the years and with Lanigan and Nick Oliveri and myself, there's like, you know, we've been thrown out of places publicly, you know?

00:54:42Guest:Yeah.

00:54:42Guest:And that starts to precede you.

00:54:44Guest:Right.

00:54:45Guest:But I think we always had this thing where you have to deserve to party.

00:54:49Guest:So I've always been about like, you know.

00:54:51Guest:You're telling me you have to fight for your right to party?

00:54:53Guest:Yeah, definitely.

00:54:55Guest:And I'm saying like, if you're going to stay up for four days.

00:54:57Guest:Yeah.

00:54:57Guest:Make records for those four days.

00:54:59Marc:Okay, all right.

00:55:01Guest:That's what I always was doing.

00:55:03Marc:That's what I would do.

00:55:03Marc:As long as it's work.

00:55:05Guest:Yeah, then how bad is it really?

00:55:06Guest:Really, yeah.

00:55:08Guest:Because on day three, we nailed that thing.

00:55:10Guest:Yeah, we finally got it.

00:55:12Guest:We're not going home until this is done, day nine.

00:55:14Guest:Nine's a long run.

00:55:17Guest:I've done it.

00:55:18Guest:Oh, my God.

00:55:19Guest:Yeah, I've done it.

00:55:19Marc:You're fucking... I'm from the desert.

00:55:21Marc:Yeah.

00:55:22Marc:Okay.

00:55:23Guest:So, yeah, you're brought up with it in the air.

00:55:25Guest:Yeah, this tooth isn't missing for no reason at all.

00:55:29Marc:That's a rough one, though, because, you know, that shit, you know, if we're talking about that shit and if we're being cagey about it for whatever reason, you will lose your mind.

00:55:38Guest:I know.

00:55:38Guest:It's, you know, eventually the odds drop to zero, you know, and I just...

00:55:43Guest:I guess I've never wanted to be a slave to anything, but I definitely wanted to sit on the slave cart for a while.

00:55:51Marc:Or push it.

00:55:52Marc:I mean, I'm the same way.

00:55:53Marc:It's sort of like, how far out can I go?

00:55:55Guest:Yeah, and someone's got to make it through.

00:55:59Guest:Why shouldn't it be you?

00:56:01Guest:That's what I've always thought.

00:56:02Marc:Well, that fighting spirit has taken a lot of people down.

00:56:05Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:56:06Guest:I know, but wouldn't it be great to pass them as they fall and still be going?

00:56:10Guest:Yeah.

00:56:10Guest:sure you know if you want to be that guy the smiling guy the shards of teeth with your smile so hard patches of hair missing well but i also i i i like that loose atmosphere you know i like the wildness of that yeah yeah and and there's a certain freedom and you know i always i i like to fuck with things and

00:56:34Guest:To me, that's the most punk rock thing you could do is infiltrate and destroy and be kind of a little bit of a mess.

00:56:41Guest:I guess I romanticize that being a mess is OK.

00:56:44Marc:Well, no, no.

00:56:44Marc:Well, I did, too.

00:56:45Marc:I mean, I mean, I think it's driven by it.

00:56:47Marc:There's that weird mixture between, you know, the weird thing is that a lot of people say, like, well, you know, when you do drugs, the idea that drugs, you know, will open your creativity.

00:56:55Marc:That's sort of a myth.

00:56:56Guest:It's not really.

00:56:57Guest:No, it's not a move.

00:56:59Guest:I mean, not to quote myself, but I did write, that's first a giveth and then a take of the way.

00:57:03Guest:Eventually, you're not driving anymore and you're just sitting with a shotgun.

00:57:07Marc:That's right.

00:57:08Marc:And you've lost your mind and it's possessed.

00:57:10Guest:Yeah.

00:57:10Guest:And you're being, instead of like saying, I'm going to do something to this, you're just being taken on some ride by someone else.

00:57:18Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:57:18Marc:Yeah.

00:57:19Marc:And you have no choice.

00:57:20Guest:Yeah.

00:57:20Marc:You just have need to stay on it.

00:57:22Guest:Yeah.

00:57:22Guest:And also I got a great family and I never it's I've always been like, I don't want to have to be that guy that's like, I need to go to rehab again.

00:57:33Marc:Yeah.

00:57:33Guest:So I guess I've always just like kept a short leash on my on my dog, you know, on your monkey.

00:57:40Guest:Yeah, and I also use Iggy, too, who has a glass of wine still.

00:57:44Marc:No, yeah, well, there's people that can do that.

00:57:46Guest:Yeah, definitely.

00:57:47Guest:I want to go for that.

00:57:49Marc:It's responsible.

00:57:49Guest:I want to make that.

00:57:50Guest:Yeah, it's a responsible fuck-up is really the way to go.

00:57:53Marc:Right, without sort of going the full other way and finding Jesus or being completely absent.

00:57:59Marc:Oh, no, I found him.

00:57:59Marc:He was out front.

00:58:00Marc:He was?

00:58:00Marc:Yeah, he's doing your lawn.

00:58:01Marc:I can't get that guy off my yard.

00:58:03Marc:And I'm not even asking him to be there.

00:58:04Marc:He said, hey, Zeus, but I just.

00:58:06Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:07Marc:There's a lot of Jesuses around.

00:58:10Marc:No, but I think what people don't realize is that Jim Carroll said this amazing thing about Cobain.

00:58:17Marc:I'm paraphrasing a poem he wrote after Cobain killed himself.

00:58:22Marc:Jim Carroll, I think the line is, he should have negotiated with the monkey.

00:58:25Marc:Yeah.

00:58:26Marc:So like there, there is that, you know, there, there are two ways to do it.

00:58:29Marc:Either you're like, I can't do anything anymore and my life is going to be defined by that.

00:58:33Marc:And you know, I, I used to be one of those guys and I don't do anything anymore, but I'm not a proselytizer.

00:58:38Guest:Yeah.

00:58:39Marc:I get it.

00:58:39Marc:Yeah.

00:58:39Marc:But you know, people who want, who don't want to live that way, but can negotiate with the monkey, then you find your terms.

00:58:45Yeah.

00:58:45Guest:Well, I just think that, you know, of course, life is about ups and downs.

00:58:51Guest:And that battle with drugs and shit, too, is about ups and downs.

00:58:55Guest:Yeah.

00:58:56Guest:And about kind of being realistic.

00:58:58Guest:And, you know, it's great to be a dreamer unless you can't fucking wake up for a second and see what's going on, you know?

00:59:05Marc:And do you think that's what this record is?

00:59:06Marc:I mean, because, I mean, if I had a tale, it seems to be about that.

00:59:10Right.

00:59:10Guest:Well, that's, you know, I mean, sometimes I write about who I wish I could be.

00:59:16Guest:And, you know, if I had a tales like, someday I'm going to burn all this down for no reason at all.

00:59:21Guest:Yeah.

00:59:21Guest:Because I think sometimes, you know, in the case of that song, it's like sometimes no reason is the greatest reason of all.

00:59:28Guest:And I think that's the Iggy thing.

00:59:29Marc:yeah part that i love to touch right but that's also the part that you know staying up nine days you know gives you entrance to yeah where it's like i don't yeah because you but you realize the beauty and like i don't need a reason i'm here to destroy fuck it all yeah yeah i'm free yeah like yeah weekend nihilism yeah you know yeah and if you can keep it to the weekend yeah which i think that the condition of if i had like you know what yeah yeah i put one on yeah okay

00:59:55Guest:Yeah, I just do it from Sunday all the way to Saturday.

00:59:58Marc:Yeah, I'm only doing it four days a week.

01:00:01Marc:Four days a weekend.

01:00:02Marc:How's that a problem?

01:00:02Marc:I used to have that one.

01:00:04Marc:It's like, I'm only doing it Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

01:00:07Marc:Yeah.

01:00:08Marc:And you have a reason.

01:00:09Marc:Exactly.

01:00:09Marc:A logic.

01:00:10Marc:But I think the fact that you're sort of waking up as a family man and as a husband, I mean, that must be, your dad must have a strong influence on that.

01:00:19Marc:It's like, well, maybe this isn't work anymore.

01:00:21Marc:Right.

01:00:21Guest:Well, you know, I think you start loving something more than you love yourself or loving something more than you hate yourself.

01:00:29Marc:Sure.

01:00:30Marc:You know?

01:00:30Marc:Yeah, sweating when you can't get hold of the guy.

01:00:32Guest:Yeah.

01:00:33Guest:What the fuck, man?

01:00:34Guest:What the fuck?

01:00:35Guest:I'm still out in front of your house.

01:00:37Marc:Yeah, yeah, that's it.

01:00:39Guest:Yeah.

01:00:40Marc:Hello?

01:00:41Guest:And then they're in there.

01:00:42Guest:That's the word.

01:00:43Marc:It is four in the morning?

01:00:44Marc:Is it really?

01:00:45Marc:Oh, shit.

01:00:46Marc:Yeah, I don't know.

01:00:46Marc:What day is it?

01:00:47Guest:Yeah, it's Florence Day, which is all the days.

01:00:50Guest:Yeah.

01:00:50Guest:that's all of them yeah well i i mean i i will say i think you know my my kids really help to make sure uh my daughter's seven my son is two how and they make sure that you what stay i mean i think i you know because i am from the desert so there's you know sometimes if you're if you're playing parties in the middle of nowhere there's no one to to regulate them and make sure there's no you know atrocities yeah yeah

01:01:16Guest:So you need to be able to defend yourself, speak for yourself, and use your wits or your fists or your car to help yourself.

01:01:25Guest:And you've had to do all that?

01:01:26Guest:I've had to do all that, and I don't look at it.

01:01:29Guest:So I never thought of myself as some macho.

01:01:36Guest:But by the same time, I'm totally willing to lose and defend my wife, my friends.

01:01:43Guest:And so I think... Willing to lose.

01:01:46Marc:Yeah.

01:01:47Marc:That's pretty powerful.

01:01:49Marc:I don't know why.

01:01:49Marc:I mean, it's a good way to live life in a way.

01:01:54Guest:Well, I think for what I believe in, I'm totally willing to lose my way and I'm fine with that.

01:02:02Guest:And so I think my kids help me to not...

01:02:06Guest:take that to the nth degree.

01:02:10Guest:Because all of a sudden certain things aren't important anymore because they're more important.

01:02:19Guest:Kids are more important.

01:02:21Guest:Did you ever think you would have that?

01:02:22Guest:no no i never thought i would be married because when you're in a rock and roll band it's like what's the point yeah yeah having kids and a wife is you know let's just go to greece instead yeah right or maybe not greece let's go somewhere that's really romantic wait are you guys but you're not living in the desert now you live in california i have a place in the desert and my folks are there and i live here in los angeles oh you do yeah and we just kind of go to palm desert to um to get away recharge the battery

01:02:49Marc:I used to go to Desert Hot Springs.

01:02:50Marc:There's this weird little hotel there called Sagewater Inn, I think it's called.

01:02:54Marc:You know that place?

01:02:56Guest:Yeah.

01:02:56Guest:Well, because many of the peeps I know were from Desert Hot Springs, so I have a pretty versed knowledge of the streets and area of Desert Hot Springs.

01:03:06Marc:It must have been a really little shitty place when you were growing up.

01:03:10Marc:You mean it's not still?

01:03:11Marc:Yeah.

01:03:11Marc:Well, no, it's like a couple people kind of redid it.

01:03:15Marc:It's only like eight rooms and there's a little huts, but they redid the whole place and it's all very sweet.

01:03:20Guest:Yeah.

01:03:20Guest:Well, and I think Desert Hot Springs is a great example of what the desert really is.

01:03:26Guest:It's like the duality, the microcosm of here's this quaint little hot springs next to these tweakers.

01:03:34Guest:Yeah.

01:03:34Guest:and look there's movie stars like 20 miles away right there and there's joshua tree yeah right down there yeah driving through that that's fucking outstanding mars yeah it is mars just to get out and walk around did you must have done that all the time when you're a kid when you're oh yeah you're wasted just absolutely well there's a studio up there that my friend owns called rancho de la luna oh right it's in the house and um so i'm up there all the time and um

01:04:00Guest:What's funny is how people don't understand the beauty and the danger holding hands together.

01:04:06Guest:You know, I think just last year there were some Dutch tourists that couldn't find their way back to their car and just died of dehydration.

01:04:14Guest:In like a day.

01:04:15Guest:In a day.

01:04:16Guest:In a day.

01:04:16Guest:It was so hot.

01:04:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:18Guest:That they were just like, oh, no.

01:04:20Marc:Boom.

01:04:20Guest:yeah you just oh two of them too that's horrendous yeah two were and and you know they couldn't get reception didn't have water yeah couldn't find their car yeah and it was like day trip turns into the end of it all you know yeah well it's like all those weird cartoons and stuff where you just see this the skeletal remains of a cowboy with one of those sticks yeah like he's looking for water you know oh yeah a divining yeah yeah yeah yeah totally so that that that edge of menace is always right there but it's very subtle

01:04:48Guest:I love, but I love, I think from growing up there, I love having a foot in each world.

01:04:55Guest:I love being on the transition instead of being in a group, uh, you know, of one or the other, because, you know, Mount San Jacinto is at the top and there's snow.

01:05:04Guest:Yeah.

01:05:05Guest:And then at the bottom of that mountain, the desert begins.

01:05:07Guest:Yeah.

01:05:08Guest:And so being in the transition of that and, you know, this kind of socioeconomical situation there is really transitional too.

01:05:16Guest:There's lots of money and no money.

01:05:17Guest:And they touch.

01:05:18Guest:And that spot where things touch is really the magical spot to be.

01:05:23Marc:Sure.

01:05:23Marc:There's a lot of chaos and feelings there.

01:05:28Guest:Yeah.

01:05:29Marc:There's a lot of fight there.

01:05:30Guest:There's something to be won and lost.

01:05:32Marc:Yeah.

01:05:32Guest:There's a great fight that never stops.

01:05:34Guest:Oh, for centuries.

01:05:36Guest:Yeah.

01:05:37Marc:It never stops that fight.

01:05:38Guest:It never stops.

01:05:38Marc:All right, so let's talk about heading into this record, because I know there's a poignance to it that was kind of necessary and life-changing.

01:05:52Marc:And what happened?

01:05:56Marc:I know you've been telling this story a bit, but I think it's an important story.

01:06:00Guest:I haven't really.

01:06:01Marc:Oh, really?

01:06:02Guest:I mean, I have, but I haven't been really.

01:06:05Guest:Okay.

01:06:05Guest:Because, you know, as I was saying, and I'm sorry to just kind of, you know,

01:06:11Guest:speak and nod nod wink winks too but i'll but you know i've been beating myself for too long basically you know with what we were talking about yeah you know and um it was just time to um the odds were dropping a zero you know yeah and i i i love to work because it's what sort of saved me uh always whenever i've had now do you put work and create silently together or

01:06:35Marc:That is what it is to me.

01:06:36Guest:You know, I think, um, if you, if, if you're having writer's block, keep writing, you know, work through it and, and, um, it'll come, you know, it won't come if you stop.

01:06:50Guest:Right.

01:06:51Guest:And, um, and so, you know, I'm in three bands and I, I, I love to produce records of other bands and, and I just, and I have family that I love and, um,

01:07:00Guest:I wanted to be everything for everybody and do all of that.

01:07:05Guest:And, you know, sleep can get in the way of that.

01:07:08Marc:Sure.

01:07:08Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:07:08Guest:No reason for it.

01:07:10Guest:And so I think I just really beat myself until I got really sick, you know.

01:07:15Guest:Yeah.

01:07:16Guest:And then, you know, needed surgery because it's physically manifesting itself.

01:07:22Guest:Wow.

01:07:23Guest:Wow.

01:07:23Guest:Well, I'll just say it, actually, for the first time.

01:07:27Guest:But I got this MRSA, which is an antibiotic-resistant stat.

01:07:32Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:33Marc:I know another guy that had that.

01:07:34Guest:Yeah, and I couldn't shake it because my immune system was so destroyed.

01:07:38Guest:Yeah.

01:07:40Guest:And people die of that all the time.

01:07:44Guest:They do.

01:07:44Guest:In fact, down the hall, someone died of it while I was in the hospital, and I was like...

01:07:49Guest:Oh, no.

01:07:50Guest:What have I what have I done?

01:07:51Guest:Right.

01:07:53Guest:And and then, you know, when I was having surgery to try to, like, fix it, they lost me trying to get the oxygen tube down my throat and and reoxygenate my blood, you know?

01:08:03Guest:Yeah.

01:08:04Guest:So I kind of choked to death and and.

01:08:07Guest:Oh, my God.

01:08:07Guest:Were you anywhere?

01:08:08Guest:You weren't awake.

01:08:09Guest:No, there was no tunnel, you know.

01:08:11Guest:Right.

01:08:12Guest:Or there was traffic at the tunnel or something.

01:08:15Guest:But when I woke up, I knew something was wrong, you know.

01:08:18Guest:Someone had hurt me, you know.

01:08:20Guest:And really, something was stolen from me, or I'd lost something because it took a couple of years to... I've always heard music in my head since I was a little kid, and I've just played at that.

01:08:32Guest:Yeah.

01:08:32Guest:And when I woke up this time, I heard nothing for a couple of years, and...

01:08:35Guest:And it affected me.

01:08:38Marc:Oh, my God.

01:08:39Guest:So they told you you died.

01:08:41Guest:Yeah.

01:08:42Guest:My doctor was like, whoa, I thought I was going to lose you there.

01:08:44Guest:I lost you.

01:08:45Guest:I thought you were going to stay lost, you know.

01:08:47Guest:Yeah.

01:08:49Guest:And I knew I could feel in my body, you know.

01:08:51Guest:Yeah.

01:08:52Guest:And when you get defibrillated, you're being electrocuted at recovery time.

01:08:57Marc:So you wake up, you feel like you've been beat up.

01:08:58Guest:Yeah, it feels like you've been in a car crash.

01:09:01Guest:Right.

01:09:01Guest:And then I was kind of contagious and in bed for four months and can't hug your little kid.

01:09:06Guest:You can't do it.

01:09:07Guest:So your mind starts to play tricks on you.

01:09:10Guest:I've never been knocked down that hard.

01:09:12Guest:You're isolated.

01:09:13Guest:Yeah.

01:09:13Guest:You're in your tower without the Rapunzel hair.

01:09:15Marc:Right.

01:09:15Marc:And were you picturing, like, the vulnerability of being out and then having that sort of chaos around you?

01:09:23Marc:Like, get the defibrillator.

01:09:26Guest:I never considered that.

01:09:29Guest:I just knew that because I was so trapped in, like, all these things kind of converged at once.

01:09:37Guest:You know, it took all those rivers converging at once to stop me.

01:09:43Guest:Right.

01:09:44Guest:And then I was stopped cold.

01:09:45Marc:And you didn't hear it anymore.

01:09:47Guest:Yeah, and I was stuck in a room for four months, and I had these tubes in my leg, and it was painful.

01:09:58Guest:And then all of a sudden, after two months in bed, you go, I got two months left.

01:10:05Guest:How do I...

01:10:06Guest:You know, how do I do this?

01:10:08Guest:And so it just what it did was it did the greatest thing it could ever do to me.

01:10:13Guest:It zeroed me.

01:10:14Guest:I had to start.

01:10:15Guest:I was below zero.

01:10:16Guest:Yeah.

01:10:17Guest:I had to crawl back up to zero.

01:10:18Guest:And I'm really thankful for it because.

01:10:23Guest:I know what's important now.

01:10:26Guest:Yeah.

01:10:27Guest:And well, and like, you know, my grandpa, I love my grandpa too.

01:10:30Guest:And he always, everyone gets knocked down, but it's the way you get back up.

01:10:34Guest:That's important, you know?

01:10:36Guest:And, and so I had a chance to like, to actually find out who I, who I was when I, how am I going to stand up?

01:10:43Guest:Who, you know, how will I be me?

01:10:46Guest:Yeah.

01:10:46Marc:And is it, can you, how would you define those things?

01:10:50Marc:I mean, what, what was the first thing to come back?

01:10:53Marc:I mean, like in how long was this darkness?

01:10:55Guest:Well, it was a couple of years, a couple of years.

01:10:58Guest:It took, you know, you know, I, I've never, I waited a long time for, as I said, I'm a bit of a fatalist.

01:11:05Guest:I feel like you need to watch for the road signs to what to do.

01:11:09Guest:And, and, and I, I think I waited a long time, like, tell me what to do, you know?

01:11:13Marc:Were you speaking to anyone in particular?

01:11:16Marc:Were you reaching out for something?

01:11:18Guest:No, I mean, I was kind of like, don't want to, you know, when something tastes like shit, I don't want to say it tastes like shit, taste it.

01:11:25Guest:It's hard to share that sometimes.

01:11:27Marc:But God didn't come into play?

01:11:29Guest:No.

01:11:31Guest:One of the things that really helped me was transcendental meditation because there's no dogma.

01:11:37Guest:No one's telling you anything.

01:11:38Guest:It's not even about you.

01:11:40Guest:It's about realizing nothingness and oneness and about letting things be.

01:11:47Marc:That's a very desert thing.

01:11:49Guest:Yeah.

01:11:50Guest:Yeah.

01:11:50Guest:I mean, it's about being on that transition once again.

01:11:52Guest:Right.

01:11:53Guest:And and and wanting to, you know, not wanting to be nothingness or oneness, but wanting to be inside that those held hands, you know what I mean?

01:12:04Guest:Yeah.

01:12:05Guest:Yeah.

01:12:05Marc:because i didn't want anyone to preach at me right including myself right so when did the sort of like the the tears come of relevate of you know the the revelation of like of who you were when did you first get like a taste of that where you're like okay i see the path it took a while i mean i think i was really down in a hole for at least a year right it was kind of like

01:12:28Marc:Were you still recuperating?

01:12:29Marc:Or were you just at home like, why is daddy sad?

01:12:33Guest:The physical scars heal quick.

01:12:36Guest:It's the mental ones that are tougher.

01:12:39Guest:And you weren't working?

01:12:40Guest:I wasn't working on purpose.

01:12:41Guest:I was going to take a year off and just be with the family.

01:12:45Guest:And really, they're the thing that pulled me through because you can't show that to your kids.

01:12:49Guest:You have to stand up and say...

01:12:51Guest:Hey, what's up?

01:12:52Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:53Guest:And then, you know, they go in the other room and you go.

01:12:58Guest:And they come back in and they're like, Dad, I forgot something.

01:13:01Guest:You're like, hey.

01:13:02Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:13:02Guest:You're like that, you know, that fan that they put on the side of the road with like a character that's blowing.

01:13:07Marc:Like, get your lube done here.

01:13:09Marc:But someone turns as soon as the kid leaves the room.

01:13:11Marc:They turn it off.

01:13:12Guest:Generator goes up.

01:13:13Guest:Turn on.

01:13:14Guest:Hey, everybody.

01:13:15Guest:Who wants a balloon animal?

01:13:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:13:17Guest:You know, and it took a while, and, you know, you do awful shit like feel sorry for yourself for a sec, and you realize that doesn't do much either.

01:13:29Marc:It's a whole.

01:13:32Guest:Yeah, and it really came down to the difference between waiting and going to work, the same thing, or that same situation for me.

01:13:40Guest:You know, when you wait for something to happen, whatever happens to you is not up to you.

01:13:45Guest:Right, right.

01:13:46Guest:And it happens to you.

01:13:48Guest:And yes, now you've made yourself that victim.

01:13:53Guest:So you weren't projecting anything positive or negative.

01:13:57Guest:I was just like someone talking to that inner whatever saying, tell me what to do.

01:14:02Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:03Guest:And that just didn't, nothing ever changed.

01:14:06Guest:I just sat there saying that over and over.

01:14:08Guest:And then, you know, and as I said, it's not something, it's not fun to share it, especially at the time where you just, you know, who are you going to share that with?

01:14:18Guest:So I kind of just disappeared for a while.

01:14:20Marc:You didn't share it with your wife or with anybody?

01:14:22Marc:I did with her, you know.

01:14:23Marc:They take a video.

01:14:25Guest:But, you know, in my experience, it's like panic breeds panic and confidence breeds confidence.

01:14:29Guest:And it's not, you know... Oh, yeah.

01:14:33Guest:So I feel like if you show too much of that, like the wolves come after you, you know what I mean?

01:14:39Marc:Well, I think like sometimes, especially if you're persistent and you're charismatic like you are, you know, when you reach for help, it's sort of this two-edged thing where you're like, help me.

01:14:49Marc:And you're like, you can't.

01:14:50Marc:And then eventually they're like, you're right, I can't.

01:14:54Marc:What do we...

01:14:54Guest:Thank you.

01:14:55Marc:That was good.

01:14:57Guest:Now we're both fucked.

01:14:57Guest:Thanks for not the no help.

01:14:59Guest:Yeah.

01:14:59Guest:Well, that was this record really was saying to my guys, yeah, I'm not doing that well.

01:15:05Guest:And I know you want to make a record.

01:15:07Guest:So you have to come into the fog with me.

01:15:08Guest:That's where we're going to start.

01:15:10Guest:And it's a tough request on a bunch of other people.

01:15:14Guest:And really, because of that process, we're tighter as a band and as friends because, you know, I was in the fog and they came in the fog with me and we came out of it.

01:15:24Guest:It was a lot of trust there.

01:15:25Marc:It's a lot of trust.

01:15:26Marc:And they showed up for you.

01:15:27Guest:Yeah, and, you know, you never know someone until everything goes wrong.

01:15:30Marc:Right.

01:15:31Marc:And they were, were you, like, how was your emotions?

01:15:36Marc:I mean, was there, like, during the... Rickety.

01:15:39Marc:Really rickety.

01:15:40Marc:But were you breaking down during the writing and...

01:15:43Guest:you know privately I was having some rough rough moments and then you sort of turn on that fan again for sure when you say rough moments like you know like fighting with insecurity and just the confidence to show that part of yourself I was writing stuff and saying you know I wrote a song called The Vampire of Time and Memory and I thought who the fuck wants to hear this very uplifting song thank you

01:16:07Guest:it's a very american happy ending yeah yeah we're all fucked yeah yeah yeah but i and i that's what i was saying is like this is very uplifting everyone's going to be really excited about this you know and and it was my wife brody who's i said no one's going to hear this and she said who gives a fuck yeah and i and i literally said oh that's

01:16:29Right.

01:16:30Guest:It doesn't matter what you want to hear.

01:16:32Guest:I mean, I think whether you're writing, doing comedy, doing music, it's not about what other people want.

01:16:38Guest:It has to be right for you.

01:16:40Guest:It has to be real.

01:16:41Guest:It has to be fucking real.

01:16:42Marc:And it's also very hard to make that decision as a creative person when all you want is people.

01:16:48Marc:Like you say, I want people to like it.

01:16:50Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:52Marc:You like it?

01:16:52Marc:But you have to look at my way.

01:16:54Guest:Exactly.

01:16:55Guest:Well, you don't like it the way I meant it to be.

01:16:56Guest:Yeah.

01:16:57Guest:Well, but it would be okay to be hated if someone understood you.

01:17:00Marc:Right.

01:17:01Guest:Right.

01:17:01Guest:Like, if you understand me and you hate me, like, that's totally cool.

01:17:04Marc:Oh, shit, man.

01:17:05Marc:Sometimes when you read criticism of you and they nail it, you're like, man.

01:17:09Marc:Yeah, I dig that shit.

01:17:10Marc:Bingo.

01:17:11Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:11Marc:We'll keep that between us.

01:17:13Marc:I'm not going to cop to that in public, but you kind of got me.

01:17:15Marc:Yeah.

01:17:16Marc:I mean, I don't mind that at all.

01:17:18Marc:I mean...

01:17:19Marc:But that's a good song.

01:17:20Marc:I mean, it's a great song.

01:17:22Marc:I mean, they may be dark.

01:17:24Marc:I mean, there's a lot of edges to this thing.

01:17:29Marc:There's no real happy ending to it, but it's thoughtful and it's realistic and it's honest.

01:17:35Guest:And that's the most I can do.

01:17:40Guest:That's what I should be doing.

01:17:43Guest:I should be who I am and I should try hard and then it's all okay.

01:17:50Guest:Whatever happens is okay.

01:17:51Marc:But I think what's amazing is that, again, when you said when you left Caius...

01:17:56Marc:That, you know, this idea of the feminine or the vulnerable was something you were after.

01:18:01Marc:And it seemed that, you know, by no choice of your own, you know, you were forced to take the next evolution in that.

01:18:07Guest:Yeah, I mean, that's a direction that you go, right?

01:18:12Marc:Yeah.

01:18:13Marc:Sure, but it's a risky direction because I think in the selfish mind and in the creative mind, if you show yourself even more, no matter how much you think you're doing it for you, if somebody doesn't like you when you're showing that, you've got to be ready.

01:18:30Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:31Marc:Then they really don't like it.

01:18:34Guest:Well, yeah.

01:18:35Guest:But it's for real.

01:18:36Guest:Yeah, they get it and they don't like it.

01:18:39Guest:But see, I'm okay with that.

01:18:45Guest:There is no destination.

01:18:48Guest:You're never going to get to that spot.

01:18:51Guest:The work is the destination.

01:18:54Guest:That is the location that's worth being at.

01:18:57Guest:I'm, I feel like I'm headed in a direction and I've been heading there for years, but I'm getting deeper down that road, deeper into that, that dark forest of like, where it's like, I know now more than ever that more, the more honest, vulnerable, the more real that the more I'm happy.

01:19:17Marc:Right.

01:19:18Marc:So, but, so that's not necessarily dark.

01:19:20Marc:I mean, it may be mysterious, but I mean, you know, at some point, you know, maybe in your brain, you're not going to frame it as like, you know, I'm in the fucking,

01:19:27Guest:dark yeah well and and like it's it becomes actually at this kind of to a certain degree a happy ending because you know that all you really requires to be honest with yourself right right be true to yourself you know and and sometimes that's dark but

01:19:44Marc:fuck that's the way it is that's who i am yeah and and once that's out once i think you're a realist too i'm a realist that's the fucking way it is right well not oh yeah but but that yeah that's the way it is but sometimes you know that that is um uh a victim of perception like sometimes when you say that's the way it is other people are like man for you yeah and i think right so the next transition is is this is who i am yeah and that's that yeah that's the way this is that's

01:20:11Marc:Yeah, not it, this.

01:20:13Guest:Yeah, that's the way.

01:20:14Guest:That's very Carlin.

01:20:15Guest:You know, that's that semantic difference, you know, that's important.

01:20:19Marc:It is.

01:20:20Guest:It is because.

01:20:21Guest:It's so tough to be understood in life.

01:20:22Guest:You get a moment of understanding someone or being understood and you want to hold on to it.

01:20:26Guest:It's such a rare moment where you get it, you know.

01:20:29Guest:It's not what it is.

01:20:32Guest:It's what this is.

01:20:34Yeah.

01:20:34Marc:Well, good.

01:20:35Marc:I'm glad we had that.

01:20:36Marc:Because it's true.

01:20:37Marc:Because then you're free to confront things honestly.

01:20:41Marc:Like, when you're living a lie or you feel like a fraud, that's like a fucking prison.

01:20:45Guest:Yeah.

01:20:46Guest:You know, you created this character that's inner voice that isn't true and you know it.

01:20:50Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:20:51Guest:Now you're maintaining to... It's the worst.

01:20:53Guest:Yeah, it's the worst fucking thing ever.

01:20:54Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:20:55Guest:I think people search... When they do relationships with other people, too, they...

01:20:59Guest:they can't be honest about what they really want.

01:21:01Guest:And really it's their, their inner character.

01:21:04Guest:That's dating somebody else.

01:21:05Marc:Right.

01:21:06Marc:Right.

01:21:06Marc:Yeah.

01:21:06Guest:Ideal.

01:21:07Marc:Yeah.

01:21:07Marc:It's now you're living negative.

01:21:09Guest:You're living this fake fucking persona.

01:21:11Guest:It's, it's a lot of work.

01:21:12Guest:Yeah.

01:21:13Guest:And a lot of people have to do it just to go to work.

01:21:15Guest:Yeah.

01:21:16Yeah.

01:21:16Marc:It's true, man.

01:21:19Marc:We have this freedom to do that.

01:21:21Marc:And I think that what's beautiful about it is that even in listening to the new record, I mean, you're taking chances vocally.

01:21:27Marc:You're taking chances stylistically.

01:21:30Marc:I've never heard you sing that intimately in a falsetto before on, what, two songs?

01:21:35Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:21:36Marc:I mean, that's bold, man.

01:21:38Marc:I mean, the vocal confidence and the clarity of it on this record is different.

01:21:41Guest:Yeah, but you just said something that's really important to me is that we don't have to do that for our job.

01:21:49Guest:Right.

01:21:49Guest:And we get better at our job when we are more honest and don't create some character and call it, oh, that's my inner voice.

01:21:57Guest:Right.

01:21:57Guest:It's this fake character.

01:21:58Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:59Guest:And so it feels like an obligation.

01:22:02Guest:What I've learned is that the obligation is to be that way.

01:22:09Guest:Uh-huh, uh-huh.

01:22:10Guest:And just as much for the people that can't or won't as anything else.

01:22:17Guest:Definitely.

01:22:18Marc:To make people feel less alone in the world is a profound and important thing if you can do it.

01:22:25Guest:And it is so profound and important that you start saying, God, they should make buildings look cooler.

01:22:34Guest:They should make music sound better.

01:22:35Guest:They should make the comedy funnier.

01:22:37Marc:and the only way to do that is to go all in and risk it all sure sure for yourself because there's no general way to do that because that's what big business does yeah it's like can you make something that the most possible people will like just make it catchy yeah it can be disposable and if you could do it again that would be great over and over again just just make it a different color and do it again well did you were you up against that because this is on an indie label right the new one yeah and you were kind of stuck in the machine for a while i was i and i've had to deal with that forever and

01:23:05Guest:What I like about the business now is that you have to be yourself or you are never going to go anywhere.

01:23:12Guest:You know what I mean?

01:23:13Guest:And I got a chance to, once I was free of being in that major label system, I got a chance to put my money where my mouth was and go to Matador and Beggar's Banquet, which...

01:23:26Guest:You know, at the end of the day, they're all record labels.

01:23:30Guest:Right, sure.

01:23:32Guest:But at the end of the day, in a good way, they're all record labels, too.

01:23:35Guest:It's whatever you make of it.

01:23:36Guest:They're a little more supportive, I think.

01:23:37Guest:Well, those people that work there could have worked at Sony, too.

01:23:42Guest:But they chose to go where the music was and the passion was.

01:23:46Guest:They don't have the same bottom line as Sony.

01:23:49Guest:And honestly, it's been such a great experience.

01:23:52Guest:They're like, what can we do that's really cool?

01:23:54Guest:What do you think?

01:23:55Guest:What?

01:23:56Guest:Or I was like, aren't we supposed to fight here first?

01:23:59Marc:Yeah.

01:23:59Guest:I'm dressed in a unitard ready to wrestle.

01:24:02Marc:Yeah.

01:24:03Guest:I shouldn't have brought this stuff.

01:24:04Marc:Aren't you going to give me your stupid ideas of what I should be doing?

01:24:07Guest:When does that start?

01:24:09Guest:And it's really been the opposite where you're... God, I hate to say it, but you're on the same fucking team.

01:24:15Guest:It's great.

01:24:16Guest:That's what collaboration is about.

01:24:20Guest:Because in a way, it's like everyone needs a common enemy.

01:24:22Guest:It's almost like I'm so used to...

01:24:24Marc:the suits fighting against the man or the adults as we call them sure you know yeah no that people have that in their brain but now it's what the one fortunate thing about that whole business and all media and entertainment businesses just being shattered by access yeah people's ability to access is now all those people that were once we know what's best they're like oh we don't really they don't say it but we have no idea they're like shit we never knew

01:24:45Guest:We just, you thought we knew.

01:24:47Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:48Guest:But that's what's great too is now you don't have to spend any time and energy on that fight.

01:24:53Guest:Yeah.

01:24:54Guest:I mean, you're a shining example of that.

01:24:56Guest:Yeah.

01:24:56Guest:You know, what started just out of love and to do something that you're passionate about is fucking awesome and has really cut itself, you know, cut the trees away and made this road, you know.

01:25:09Marc:Yeah, it's great.

01:25:10Marc:And nothing feels better than that.

01:25:11Marc:Yeah, it's yours.

01:25:13Marc:And honestly, I don't know if you're feeling the same thing, but you had a tremendous amount of success previous to this moment in your career and life.

01:25:21Marc:But to really feel like you have ownership of what you put out in the world almost exclusively, it almost feels like you have finally arrived at yourself.

01:25:31Guest:Yeah.

01:25:32Guest:Yeah.

01:25:32Guest:Here I are.

01:25:33Guest:Yeah.

01:25:34Guest:Yeah.

01:25:34Guest:Act two.

01:25:35Guest:Exactly.

01:25:36Guest:You know?

01:25:36Guest:Yeah.

01:25:37Guest:Where you finally get to sort of restart with the experience and knowledge of everything that came before, you know?

01:25:42Guest:Pure.

01:25:43Guest:Yeah.

01:25:43Guest:Just pure, uncut yes.

01:25:46Guest:98%.

01:25:46Guest:This is 98% yes.

01:25:50Guest:Yeah, I'm really trying to get my purity levels high.

01:25:53Marc:Yeah, it seems pretty good.

01:25:54Marc:You had a good lab on this last record.

01:25:58Guest:And they pulled me back in.

01:25:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:26:00Marc:Well, it's great, man.

01:26:01Marc:And I'm proud of you.

01:26:03Marc:Thank you.

01:26:04Marc:I am proud of you, too, actually.

01:26:05Guest:It's nice to see you, John.

01:26:06Guest:Nice to see you.

01:26:12Marc:That's it.

01:26:13Marc:That's the show, my friends.

01:26:14Marc:Fucking solid dude.

01:26:16Marc:What a great time I had talking to him.

01:26:17Marc:Hope you enjoyed that.

01:26:18Marc:Go pick up that new record, Light Clockwork, if you haven't.

01:26:21Marc:It's beautiful.

01:26:23Marc:It's fucking beautiful.

01:26:24Marc:Listen to it ten times.

01:26:26Marc:Do not pass judgment until you've listened to it ten times.

01:26:32Marc:This Sunday, October 13th, at the Ice House, me and Dean Del Rey will be doing the thing.

01:26:38Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:26:40Marc:Get the app, folks.

01:26:41Marc:In the next few months, certainly by the beginning of next year, we're going to be adding a lot more premium content for premium app holders.

01:26:50Marc:Get that free app.

01:26:51Marc:Go to your favorite app store and get the WTF app.

01:26:55Marc:For a few bucks, you can upgrade to premium and stream all of the content.

01:26:59Marc:All of it.

01:27:01Marc:That's 400 plus.

01:27:02Marc:Get that app.

01:27:03Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.

01:27:05Marc:Check out the merch.

01:27:06Marc:We're going to get more of those special hand-thrown mugs for you soon.

01:27:11Marc:New shirts coming soon.

01:27:13Marc:A lot of things happening.

01:27:14Marc:Be grateful.

01:27:17Marc:Yeah, who's that?

01:27:19Marc:Toby.

01:27:20Marc:Hold on.

01:27:21Marc:I got to let you in.

01:27:24Marc:I'm recording.

01:27:27Marc:Hey, come on, man.

01:27:30Marc:I'm almost done.

01:27:33Marc:I'll be right there.

01:27:34Marc:I'm finishing up.

01:27:38Marc:Toby Huss is here.

01:27:39Marc:We got to do something.

01:27:40Marc:Boomer lives.