Episode 424 - Harris Wittels

Episode 424 • Released September 15, 2013 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:are we doing this really wait for it are we doing this wait for it pow what the fuck and it's also what the fuck what's wrong with me it's time for wtf what the fuck with mark marron

00:00:24Marc:All right, folks, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:27Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:28Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:29Marc:What the fucking X?

00:00:31Marc:What the fuck is sugar in us?

00:00:32Marc:What?

00:00:33Marc:I got to do the Jewish one.

00:00:34Marc:Come on.

00:00:36Marc:Got to do the Jewish one for the Jews.

00:00:38Marc:Are you feeling atoned?

00:00:39Marc:Have you made it right with God?

00:00:42Marc:Is everything?

00:00:42Marc:Have you cleansed your soul palate Jews?

00:00:46Marc:do you do it on a day-to-day basis are you have you been written in for another year that's the big mystery about yom kippur and you know no coincidence i was born on the eve of yom kippur and i try to bring that up every year because i think it makes me special i am mark maron this is wtf welcome to the show harris whittles is on the show the uh the creator of the humble brag hashtag

00:01:11Marc:and twitter handle also a writer for uh for uh parks and rec and a stand-up comedian interesting guy always wanted to talk to him always thought he was funny didn't know what was going on in there so we had a uh we had a nice chat chat about a lot of stuff but yom kippur the eve of yom kippur kol nidra the holiest eve

00:01:33Marc:in the jewish religion a night where people are busy asking god please i've been bad but give me another year could you could you just put my name down marin party a one uh to live another year would that be all right what do i got to do what do i got to say how much do i got to pray to get my name on that list are you the door guy look here's a couple bucks will that get me in will that get me on the list how much do you need what do i got to do to get a guarantee

00:02:02Marc:Wow, that's what everybody wants, isn't it?

00:02:04Marc:Come on, just give me a little more time.

00:02:06Marc:So many things left undone.

00:02:08Marc:So many things to apologize for.

00:02:11Marc:So many things to feel.

00:02:14Marc:I'm sorry.

00:02:15Marc:I'm sorry.

00:02:16Marc:True atonement.

00:02:18Marc:That's a tricky business.

00:02:19Marc:So I hope those of you who engage with that kind of thing did it.

00:02:22Marc:You feel clear.

00:02:23Marc:You feel good.

00:02:24Marc:You had a good break fast and everything is OK with you.

00:02:27Marc:What's going on with me?

00:02:29Marc:Well, I'm going to be in Rochester, New York this week, Saturday, September 21.

00:02:37Marc:I will be at the Rochester Fringe Festival in Rochester, New York, trying to avoid a garbage plate.

00:02:42Marc:Tuesday, September 24th, I will be at JFL 42 in Toronto, Just for Laughs 42, doing two shows up there in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

00:02:52Marc:October 4th, the Los Angeles Podcast Festival.

00:02:55Marc:A lot of good stuff going on there that weekend.

00:02:58Marc:Come out for that.

00:02:59Marc:And October 16th, I will be in San Francisco in conversation with Adam Savage.

00:03:06Marc:So that's what's going on.

00:03:07Marc:You can get all of that at wtfpod.com slash calendar.

00:03:11Marc:You can also know who's been on the show if you go to wtfpod.com slash guide.

00:03:15Marc:Here we go.

00:03:16Marc:The cat.

00:03:19Marc:People wondering about the deaf black cat who I believe lost an eye.

00:03:24Marc:well i couldn't take it anymore he was breaking my heart showing up on my deck and then he showed up and his head was inflated one side of his head was grotesquely disfigured from swelling and what i thought was a missing eye filling with pus and goo and it was breaking my heart you know you got to say like well what's going to happen is he going to die out there what am i going to do i'm going to go get a trap

00:03:48Marc:So I went and got a trap.

00:03:50Marc:I have a heart trap.

00:03:52Marc:I talked to somebody about it.

00:03:53Marc:I think I might have mentioned this before.

00:03:55Marc:He said, well, you're probably just going to have to put it down.

00:03:57Marc:But he seems chipper.

00:03:58Marc:He's cleaning himself.

00:03:59Marc:He's just got a head full of pus and maybe a missing eye.

00:04:02Marc:And then there's part of you thinks, well, he's in the wild.

00:04:04Marc:Either it's going to go one way or the other.

00:04:06Marc:Either he'll survive it or he won't.

00:04:08Marc:So I got the trap and I put the food in the trap and I waited and he wouldn't get in the trap.

00:04:12Marc:And I thought like, God damn it, this kid, this guy, this cat is smart.

00:04:17Marc:He knows better.

00:04:18Marc:But I just don't think he sensed that that was how you got the food.

00:04:21Marc:And eventually after a couple of days of wrestling and thinking like, well, I guess he's just going to have to live through this or not.

00:04:27Marc:I led him into the trap with a trail of food and trapped the little guy.

00:04:33Marc:And that's interesting when you trap a cat that you can't touch because it's the first time you can look at him up close.

00:04:39Marc:And I got right into his little disfigured face and tried not to scare him because I love this guy.

00:04:46Marc:He's got a rugged disposition, a real lust for life, a real persistence.

00:04:51Marc:I don't know if he would call it a lust for life, but I think he's a fighter, obviously.

00:04:55Marc:It might just be that survival wiring that keeps pushing animals that don't think about their sadness and

00:05:03Marc:It's a great thing about survival and animals is that, you know, once once that kicks in with an animal, all they want to do is live.

00:05:11Marc:They're not burdened like us humans where we're pressed to the wall and we're like, oh, maybe I don't want to.

00:05:17Marc:Maybe this is too much.

00:05:20Marc:You know, they don't they don't do that.

00:05:23Marc:That's the gift of the animal.

00:05:25Marc:That's why we love them.

00:05:27Marc:They just keep pushing.

00:05:28Marc:We associate personalities with them.

00:05:30Marc:We take in their personalities.

00:05:32Marc:We project our own onto them.

00:05:33Marc:They represent something to this.

00:05:35Marc:So I trap him and I look at him and I see that like, oh my God, there's still an eye in there.

00:05:39Marc:His eye is in there.

00:05:40Marc:Something happened to his face.

00:05:41Marc:I didn't see what it was, but it was all swollen and abscessed and leaky.

00:05:45Marc:But his eye was in there.

00:05:46Marc:Thank God, because I thought I was going to have to drive this thing to the vet and have him put down because the vet was going to talk me into it.

00:05:52Marc:He didn't do that.

00:05:54Marc:I think in some part of the vet's heart, they think, like, what a good guy.

00:05:58Marc:But, you know, somewhere else in the vet's heart, they think, like, I can run a few bucks through this cat.

00:06:03Marc:This cat's a little cash machine.

00:06:06Marc:And I don't think that's necessarily bad.

00:06:08Marc:The veterinary profession is what it is.

00:06:11Marc:But I like this vet.

00:06:13Marc:So he said, look, you know, I know you like this guy and it looks like he's got an abscess.

00:06:19Marc:Why don't we clean him up, drain the abscess, keep him over the weekend, give him some IV fluids, give him a little flea bath, see if he's been neutered or spayed, figure out what's going on with him, give him a blood test, clean him up and give him back to you.

00:06:33Marc:Looks like he's still got some mileage on him.

00:06:36Marc:And I'm like, that's great.

00:06:37Marc:That's great.

00:06:38Marc:And I started to get all weepy, you know, because we started talking about that, that, you know, the way you love an animal is so much different than a person because of the dynamic of the relationship.

00:06:49Marc:You know, they're not going to hurt your feelings.

00:06:54Marc:You know, it's all based on, you know, what you've attributed to them, how you've anthropomorphized their personality to fit with yours and what they represent to you and how you take care of them.

00:07:05Marc:They're not going to tell you to go fuck yourself.

00:07:07Marc:They might disappear, but they're not going to be passive aggressive or hurt your feelings on purpose or blame you for things.

00:07:16Marc:But I like this guy.

00:07:17Marc:I like this little deaf black cat, and I'm glad he still got his eye, and I hope he survived.

00:07:21Marc:So I took him to the vet.

00:07:22Marc:I left him there.

00:07:22Marc:They're going to give him a tune-up, and later this afternoon, I'm going to pick him up, and hopefully he'll be okay, and I'll release him back into his home, which is somewhere around here.

00:07:33Marc:and hopefully go on feeding that little guy for as long as he lives.

00:07:37Marc:And that's the story of the deaf black cat as it stands now.

00:07:41Marc:I will let you know what happens when I go pick him up.

00:07:45Marc:Okay, let's talk to Harris Whittles.

00:07:56Marc:Harris Whittles.

00:07:58Guest:I should say I'm allergic to cats.

00:08:02Guest:Are you really?

00:08:02Guest:But I didn't think I was on the tier of people that you come to them.

00:08:08Guest:That's like reserved for your judge.

00:08:10Marc:I don't think that what's reserved for either very old people or very busy, famous people.

00:08:16Marc:Exactly.

00:08:16Marc:None of that.

00:08:18Guest:No, I would have come.

00:08:20Guest:But also I wanted to do it like proper.

00:08:22Marc:No, I appreciate that.

00:08:24Marc:I appreciate your respect for the ritual space that is a garage.

00:08:28Marc:Yeah, this is huge.

00:08:29Marc:How allergic are you?

00:08:31Guest:Well, I have probably an hour before my system collapses.

00:08:38Guest:Not really.

00:08:38Guest:I'm going to get itchy in the throat.

00:08:40Guest:That's it.

00:08:40Guest:Do you feel it now?

00:08:41Guest:No, no.

00:08:42Guest:I'll be fine really.

00:08:43Guest:I took a Claritin.

00:08:44Guest:Wow.

00:08:45Marc:Yeah.

00:08:45Guest:Do you have other allergies?

00:08:47Guest:No, it's like really just cats.

00:08:51Marc:But your throat doesn't close up.

00:08:52Marc:It's not like a nut allergy.

00:08:53Guest:No, it's just I get very itchy and my nose starts running.

00:08:56Guest:It's unpleasant.

00:08:58Yeah.

00:08:58Marc:Fucking poor Helms couldn't breathe.

00:09:01Guest:Yeah, I remember that.

00:09:03Marc:And I kept pushing through.

00:09:04Marc:I know.

00:09:04Guest:He had it worse than I do.

00:09:06Marc:It was horrible.

00:09:07Marc:Poor guy was wheezing, and I just sort of like, I haven't gotten what I need yet.

00:09:10Guest:I know.

00:09:11Marc:We're going to keep plowing through here.

00:09:12Guest:I went to the store, and I bought Claritin.

00:09:14Guest:And I get paranoid when I buy Claritin because I think that they think I'm using it for meth.

00:09:19Marc:Is that a meth thing?

00:09:20Marc:I thought that was Sudafed.

00:09:21Marc:I don't think Claritin is in the family.

00:09:23Guest:Well, I think Claritin D has the ephedrine in it.

00:09:27Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:09:27Guest:It's funny that because- Do you have to sign for it?

00:09:30Guest:No.

00:09:31Marc:Well, I just got the regular card, not the D. All right.

00:09:34Marc:All right.

00:09:35Marc:If you get the D, you get jacked up, though.

00:09:38Marc:You get the little extra added.

00:09:39Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:09:39Guest:The benefit.

00:09:40Guest:No, I'm more of a downers guy.

00:09:41Guest:I don't like uppers.

00:09:42Guest:No?

00:09:43Guest:No.

00:09:44Guest:Really?

00:09:44Guest:No blow?

00:09:47Guest:What happens to you?

00:09:49Guest:Do you become annoying?

00:09:50Guest:I had one bad experience with blow when I was in high school or coming out of high school.

00:09:58Marc:That was it?

00:09:59Guest:Yeah, it was a really bad experience where me and my friends just decided this is the night that we're going to do it.

00:10:04Guest:We're going to go crazy and we're just going to do rails all night.

00:10:07Guest:Yeah, rails.

00:10:08Guest:And...

00:10:10Guest:It was also one of those nights where I ended up liking people that I just would have never, like even the dealer that came over.

00:10:16Guest:Oh, sure.

00:10:17Guest:Who was like, can I get a C-rated blade for this, cutting it up?

00:10:21Guest:I was like, man, you really know what you're doing.

00:10:22Guest:That's really cool, man.

00:10:24Guest:And then I went home at like 7 a.m.

00:10:28Guest:I was living at my parents' house for the summer, and I thought I was dying.

00:10:33Guest:I was sure that I was dying.

00:10:34Guest:Oh, along with your heart pounding.

00:10:36Guest:I couldn't sleep heart pounding, and I was like,

00:10:37Guest:Oh, this is actually a drug that people do die from.

00:10:40Guest:It's not in my head.

00:10:41Guest:People do overdose.

00:10:43Guest:Went downstairs to my parents' bedroom.

00:10:45Guest:My dad's a doctor.

00:10:46Guest:I woke him up.

00:10:47Guest:I said, I'm going to level with you.

00:10:49Guest:I did a lot of blow, and I think I'm dying.

00:10:53Guest:And he was like, you're not fucking dying, man.

00:10:54Guest:Take a NyQuil.

00:10:56Guest:And I think I just needed to hear it from an MD.

00:10:58Guest:And I was fine.

00:11:02Marc:So we both have the benefit of relatively cool parents, apparently.

00:11:05Guest:Yeah, they're cool to an extent.

00:11:07Guest:They're cool now that I'm doing okay.

00:11:12Guest:What kind of doctor was he?

00:11:14Guest:Well, he's done it all over his long... He's 70 now and he hasn't retired yet.

00:11:19Guest:Yeah.

00:11:20Guest:Because he'd go crazy.

00:11:21Guest:But he's doing occupational medicine now.

00:11:24Guest:So he takes care of companies and chemical plants and he just wrote the book on trucker safety.

00:11:30Guest:Yeah.

00:11:30Guest:Really?

00:11:31Guest:Yeah, so... Trucker safety.

00:11:33Guest:Trucker safety, because they have a lot of issues, those guys.

00:11:36Guest:It warrants a whole book that they're... How fucked up they are.

00:11:40Guest:What, hemorrhoids and... Hemorrhoids, back stuff, drugs, doing speed to stay up, all that.

00:11:46Marc:So he's created the definitive text on how to troubleshoot a trucker body and take care of it?

00:11:56Guest:Pretty much.

00:11:57Guest:I mean, we're in good with Teamsters.

00:11:59Guest:Like, I...

00:12:00Guest:We could have someone knocked off, I think, which is a cool feeling.

00:12:06Marc:And I guess on sets, do you drop his name a bit?

00:12:09Marc:You know, when you're shooting a show with the Teamsters, you got something to talk about?

00:12:12Guest:You're Alison Whittle's kid.

00:12:15Marc:Who hasn't read that book?

00:12:17Marc:We all know that.

00:12:18Marc:I don't know who reads that book.

00:12:19Marc:That book saved my ass, literally.

00:12:23Marc:But was he a GM?

00:12:26Guest:He was an internist for a while, and then he taught for a while at Baylor in Houston.

00:12:32Guest:And you grew up where, in Houston?

00:12:34Marc:In Houston, yeah.

00:12:34Marc:You're Jewish?

00:12:35Marc:Yes.

00:12:36Marc:Jews in Texas?

00:12:37Marc:Yeah.

00:12:38Marc:There was a lot of Jews in El Paso.

00:12:39Marc:Was there a lot of Jews in Houston?

00:12:40Marc:Yeah.

00:12:40Guest:Yeah, in southwest Houston.

00:12:42Guest:It's called Jewston.

00:12:43Guest:That's what it's called.

00:12:44Guest:It's clever.

00:12:45Marc:By the non-Jews?

00:12:46Guest:Yeah.

00:12:48Guest:They make us all live there.

00:12:50Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:51Marc:And I'm sure just horrible housing as well, right?

00:12:55Marc:Yeah.

00:12:55Marc:You're ghettoized, I'm sure.

00:12:57Marc:Exactly.

00:12:57Marc:Yeah, it must be just awful.

00:12:58Marc:We have to wear a star.

00:12:59Marc:It's fine.

00:13:00Marc:You make it work.

00:13:01Marc:Yeah, I mean, the jobs were there.

00:13:03Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:13:04Guest:So you were bar mitzvahed in Houston?

00:13:06Guest:So I was bar mitzvahed at Emmanuel in Houston.

00:13:08Guest:Yeah?

00:13:10Guest:You were born there in Texas?

00:13:12Guest:I was born in Oklahoma City, where my dad's from, and then when I was one, I packed up and moved to Houston.

00:13:18Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:13:19Marc:Was the family with you, or was just something?

00:13:21Guest:No, just me.

00:13:21Guest:I just...

00:13:22Guest:You'd had enough.

00:13:23Marc:You just hit the road, man.

00:13:25Marc:Texas seemed like the right thing.

00:13:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:13:28Guest:The thunder weren't there yet, so there was nothing there.

00:13:31Marc:Yeah, okay.

00:13:32Marc:So wait, Oklahoma, that's another, like, I can't imagine.

00:13:35Marc:Why did he come from Oklahoma?

00:13:36Marc:How did that happen?

00:13:37Guest:I don't know.

00:13:38Marc:You don't know?

00:13:38Guest:I really don't know.

00:13:39Marc:Why there was some Western expansion Jews that ended up in Oklahoma?

00:13:43Guest:Yeah, I really don't know.

00:13:44Guest:I got to talk to him about that.

00:13:47Guest:I want to do one of those interviews with my dad where I fill in all the gaps.

00:13:53Marc:Yeah.

00:13:54Marc:You better, I mean- I know, 70.

00:13:56Marc:I think I want to do that with my dad, but yeah, I think that the reason we stop ourselves is some of those gaps, maybe we don't want to know those gaps.

00:14:04Marc:Oh, for sure.

00:14:05Marc:Are your parents still together?

00:14:06Guest:Yeah, they're still together.

00:14:08Guest:That's another reason I was nervous to do this show.

00:14:09Guest:I don't have a lot to complain about.

00:14:11Guest:Yeah.

00:14:12Guest:You don't have to complain.

00:14:14Guest:Well, it makes for a good episode.

00:14:16Guest:Yeah, but I'm sure you do have things to complain about.

00:14:19Guest:I could complain, but I've had a pretty decent life.

00:14:22Guest:Yeah?

00:14:23Guest:Do you got brothers?

00:14:25Guest:I have one older sister.

00:14:26Guest:She's teaching theater still in Houston.

00:14:28Guest:Yeah?

00:14:29Guest:Yeah, she's the good kid that stayed behind and talks to my parents.

00:14:33Guest:You don't even talk to them anymore?

00:14:34Guest:I'm just riddled with guilt constantly about not talking to them enough.

00:14:38Guest:and and so you and that guilt propels you to continue not talking to them like it's like now it's too late yeah exactly now i'm just at the way to wait for a holiday or a birthday it's just a real they think that i'm a lot more busy out here than i am they think that i you know showbiz or whatever sure you got i'm not fucking doing anything they can call me whenever and i i'm really i sit at home all day that's your job yeah

00:15:01Guest:I mean, when I'm staffed on a show, it's different, but I'm on a three-month hiatus right now, and I literally do nothing.

00:15:09Marc:Yeah?

00:15:09Marc:Is weed involved?

00:15:11Marc:Weed, oxys.

00:15:12Marc:Yeah?

00:15:13Marc:Yeah, whatever.

00:15:13Marc:Oh, good.

00:15:14Marc:Whatever's around.

00:15:14Marc:Just not blow.

00:15:15Marc:Yeah.

00:15:15Marc:That's good.

00:15:16Marc:Just sitting there banging oxys with the bottom of glasses and snorting that shit.

00:15:20Marc:Yeah.

00:15:20Marc:Watching some television.

00:15:22Marc:Love it.

00:15:22Marc:So when you were in, if you grew up all in Texas, I have to assume that it was relatively challenging.

00:15:28Marc:I want to project some sort of tension into your life growing up as a Jew in Texas.

00:15:33Marc:Was there a fight to be fought?

00:15:36Guest:Not as a Jew, but as like a short, funny kid.

00:15:42Marc:Yeah.

00:15:43Guest:Yeah.

00:15:43Marc:Was short a problem?

00:15:45Guest:When you're growing up, it's a problem.

00:15:47Guest:I wanted to do all the things that my big goy friends were doing.

00:15:51Guest:I joined the football team in seventh grade.

00:15:53Guest:Yeah.

00:15:55Guest:It was miserable.

00:15:56Marc:Yeah.

00:15:56Guest:Why?

00:15:57Guest:I mean, I could get, if someone pushed me, I'd get the wind knocked out of me.

00:16:01Guest:Yeah.

00:16:02Guest:The helmet was too big for my head.

00:16:04Guest:It kept slipping.

00:16:06Guest:They finally got me in on the last play like Rudy.

00:16:09Guest:They all demanded that I got in for real.

00:16:11Guest:And then the quarterback missed the snap and I never got to run it.

00:16:17Guest:But I'm glad because I would have died.

00:16:20Marc:Right, but you had the moment.

00:16:22Marc:You got to take the field.

00:16:23Marc:Yeah, that's true.

00:16:23Marc:I took the field.

00:16:24Marc:So I had a team support there.

00:16:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:26Guest:Was that the- It was a pity play.

00:16:28Marc:Uh-huh.

00:16:28Marc:Yeah.

00:16:29Marc:And before that, were you always a jock guy or did you have other interests?

00:16:33Guest:Yeah, I played baseball a lot and tennis.

00:16:37Guest:And I was fast, but I was small.

00:16:39Guest:Right.

00:16:41Guest:And then at some point, I chose theater.

00:16:44Guest:I started doing plays and shit.

00:16:45Marc:In high school?

00:16:46Guest:In middle school, in sixth grade.

00:16:48Guest:I was all over, well, seventh grade.

00:16:49Guest:Oh yeah?

00:16:50Guest:Yeah.

00:16:51Guest:And that was Nathan Detroit and Guys and Dolls.

00:16:53Guest:Really?

00:16:54Guest:In the musical?

00:16:55Guest:Yeah, in the musical.

00:16:55Guest:You danced a bit?

00:16:57Guest:Oh yeah, did all that.

00:16:58Guest:And I was like also the, you know, kind of in like the cool, like I was in like a gang of friends essentially.

00:17:06Guest:Right.

00:17:07Guest:We were like delinquents, like in the movie Kids.

00:17:09Guest:Right.

00:17:10Guest:And it's hard when you are trying to be intimidating and menacing and then you have to do Oliver in front of the kids that you're

00:17:19Marc:You're sort of trying to be cool with it.

00:17:21Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:21Marc:Yeah, and then you have to, can I have some more, sir?

00:17:23Marc:Did you do the accent and everything?

00:17:24Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, I did the accent.

00:17:25Marc:Oh, so you might as well have been sucking a dick up there.

00:17:27Guest:Exactly.

00:17:28Guest:It didn't do much for me.

00:17:31Guest:And this was in middle school?

00:17:33Guest:That was in middle school, and then I went to HSPVA, which is like the theater school.

00:17:37Guest:It's like the art school.

00:17:38Guest:In Texas?

00:17:39Guest:Yeah, that Beyonce went to.

00:17:40Guest:oh really yeah she there when you were there she she left right she was there when my sister was there so i knew her and she was awesome and she was always beyonce like even then really yeah like you just everyone's like oh shit that that's gonna be huge yeah yeah so it was never a question and then since i went to high school for theater was really like i might as well have been sucking a dick so you just had to lose those friends right

00:18:04Guest:all yeah all my fun friends yeah yeah they were abandoned you yeah they all went to the the fun you know public high school and did the kegger thing and i went the more uh mushrooms lsd theater route uh-huh yeah so you did some exploring yeah yeah took it out there did you go out into the texas highways

00:18:23Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:18:24Marc:Yeah, just high as fuck.

00:18:26Marc:Listening to Meat Puppet songs.

00:18:27Guest:Absolutely.

00:18:28Guest:Well, Toadies, Meat Puppets, sure.

00:18:30Guest:Who are the Toadies?

00:18:31Guest:Toadies were from Tyler, Texas, and they were pretty big, and they kind of reminded me of the Meat Puppets.

00:18:38Marc:I just talked to Kirk Kirkwood, actually.

00:18:41Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:18:41Marc:The lead singer for the Meat Puppets.

00:18:43Marc:He's pretty trippy.

00:18:44Marc:I didn't realize that...

00:18:46Marc:I was just out in Austin, and I don't know why I got it in my head that I was going to interview him, but I did.

00:18:52Marc:And I know enough of their music, but it took about an hour, maybe 45 minutes before I somehow or another... Because it was surprising the type of background he comes from.

00:19:03Marc:He's very eclectic, and he was just playing shitty cover music when he first started playing.

00:19:08Marc:And he's pretty open-minded about music in general.

00:19:10Marc:And then when I brought up The Dead, it was like something just blew open in his head.

00:19:15Marc:And in the way that he's like- In a good way?

00:19:17Marc:Yeah.

00:19:18Marc:He was like, yeah, they were essential.

00:19:20Marc:That's awesome.

00:19:21Marc:Yeah.

00:19:21Marc:And then if you listen to their music, you can really sort of hear the spirit of it that he was just sort of like, we're just in it for the jam.

00:19:27Marc:And what type of music we're playing is not really the thing.

00:19:31Marc:Right.

00:19:31Marc:It's really getting to this other place.

00:19:32Guest:That's cool.

00:19:33Guest:Maybe I should revisit them now with those new goggles on because, yeah, before it just seemed like kind of a shitty 90s alternative.

00:19:42Marc:They definitely get more psychedelic.

00:19:43Marc:Also, butthole surfers.

00:19:46Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:19:46Marc:So that weird kind of anarchic, you know, balls to the wall.

00:19:49Marc:Yeah, that's cool.

00:19:50Marc:Yeah.

00:19:50Marc:You're a psychedelic guy, right?

00:19:51Marc:You do that fucking podcast.

00:19:52Guest:Well, yeah, the fish one.

00:19:54Guest:Yeah.

00:19:54Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:56Guest:I can't do psychedelics as much anymore.

00:19:58Guest:I think I just started all that shit too early.

00:20:02Guest:I think you get like 10 years of that in your life before you turn your brain to mush.

00:20:08Guest:And my 10 years just happened to start at like 14.

00:20:11Guest:What was it, acid?

00:20:12Guest:It was ecstasy, acid, pot.

00:20:15Guest:I started smoking pot when I was 12.

00:20:17Guest:Yeah.

00:20:19Guest:And so I think my adolescence was...

00:20:22Guest:that whole phase was just too early for me.

00:20:24Guest:And now I go to fish shows and all my friends are doing ecstasy and I can't do it anymore just because I don't have the serotonin to give up.

00:20:31Marc:You're concerned.

00:20:31Marc:Yeah.

00:20:32Marc:But at the time, well, I mean, I don't know if it's that old.

00:20:35Marc:I mean, I grew up in New Mexico.

00:20:36Marc:I think that we got started on shit.

00:20:37Marc:I mean, if you're,

00:20:38Marc:If you're a drug guy, you're a drug guy.

00:20:40Marc:Right.

00:20:40Marc:I mean, if you're doing that shit in high school, you're doing it in high school.

00:20:42Marc:Yeah.

00:20:42Marc:And it's probably a benefit that now you're like, you know, I know what it does.

00:20:47Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:20:48Marc:I'm not sure I need to feel all wobbly.

00:20:50Marc:Yeah, I don't need it anymore.

00:20:51Marc:In my late 30s.

00:20:52Guest:How old are you?

00:20:52Guest:Well, about to be 29.

00:20:54Guest:That's it?

00:20:55Guest:Yeah.

00:20:56Guest:Oh, God.

00:20:56Guest:You thought I was in my late 30s?

00:20:58Guest:I don't know what you are.

00:20:59Guest:Yeah.

00:21:00Guest:I appreciate the honesty.

00:21:03Marc:You've entered a timeless zone right now.

00:21:06Guest:Well, I'm completely uncastable for that reason.

00:21:09Marc:Yeah?

00:21:09Guest:Yeah, I have a stand-up bit about how I look 25 and 50.

00:21:16Marc:You can be cast anywhere in between.

00:21:17Guest:I guess.

00:21:18Guest:It's off-putting, I think.

00:21:19Marc:But what was your experience with hallucinogenics?

00:21:21Marc:I mean, at that time, what were you chasing?

00:21:25Marc:Were you just chasing like, fuck it, or were you chasing enlightenment of some kind?

00:21:28Marc:I mean, what was the angle?

00:21:29Guest:I think I've always done drugs recreationally.

00:21:31Guest:In therapy, no therapist believes that anyone just does drugs recreationally, that it's always an escape or that there's always something there.

00:21:44Guest:Recreation.

00:21:45Guest:Exactly.

00:21:45Guest:I think it's right.

00:21:46Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:21:47Guest:If you're watching a movie or playing a video game or taking mushrooms, it's all the fucking same.

00:21:51Guest:We're all just trying to distract ourselves from.

00:21:55Marc:So they always approach it as like, well, there must be some underlying problem.

00:21:58Guest:Yeah, but no, I just really liked acid.

00:22:01Guest:It was just really fun to laugh for eight hours at nothing.

00:22:04Yeah.

00:22:04Marc:And when you've gotten a therapist, they're trying to kind of pull something out of you.

00:22:09Marc:What are you trying to hide from here?

00:22:11Guest:I really think I might be an anomaly.

00:22:13Marc:No, I think you're right, though.

00:22:15Marc:I think it's the level escape that becomes the issue.

00:22:18Marc:It's like if every waking hour, it's like, I got to get out of me.

00:22:23Marc:But that's not it.

00:22:24Marc:No, you're just sort of like- It was just fun.

00:22:26Guest:Yeah, let's go to the amusement park.

00:22:27Guest:We're in Houston.

00:22:29Guest:You're underaged, so you can't go to bars.

00:22:32Guest:We can hang out in a laundromat for four hours and laugh.

00:22:37Guest:Let's do that.

00:22:39Guest:And watch clothes tumble.

00:22:40Guest:Why not?

00:22:41Guest:Yeah.

00:22:41Guest:There's something beautiful about it.

00:22:43Guest:Of course.

00:22:44Marc:The right drug.

00:22:45Marc:Yeah.

00:22:45Marc:No, I find a lot of peace of mind in watching my clothes in a laundromat dryer.

00:22:49Marc:Do you?

00:22:50Marc:Yeah.

00:22:51Marc:I mean, I think I've talked about it before.

00:22:53Marc:There's something about it, especially if it's a shitty laundromat, and you're on the road, and you just, you know, like, why are you at a laundromat?

00:23:01Marc:Why gotta wash these fucking clothes?

00:23:02Marc:Right.

00:23:03Marc:You know, so you're just sitting there with, like, whoever else is there, and you see that big dryer.

00:23:07Marc:Yeah.

00:23:08Marc:And there's something, it's like, I'm doing things.

00:23:09Guest:And you have to be there until they're done.

00:23:11Marc:Yeah, because you don't want some fucking homeless guy to come in and take your pants.

00:23:14Guest:Exactly.

00:23:14Marc:So, but there's something about watching clothes tumble that's very meditative.

00:23:18Marc:It's like, I'm working right now.

00:23:21Marc:I'm gonna be folding those.

00:23:22Marc:Right, exactly.

00:23:23Marc:It's like, I'm gonna start fresh in a matter of hours.

00:23:26Marc:I'm gonna have fresh underwear.

00:23:28Marc:Where else did you trip?

00:23:31Marc:I mean, laundromat's good, but you know.

00:23:33Guest:Well, I had a bad trip in Madison Square Garden.

00:23:38Guest:That was like three years ago.

00:23:40Marc:Oh, so that was the end of it, it sounds like.

00:23:42Guest:That was the last time I've tripped, yeah, and it was at a fish show.

00:23:45Marc:How'd that go bad?

00:23:48Guest:Well, I had an epiphany about how when you're tripping, you don't need to watch something trippy because it's too much, which goes back to the laundromat theory.

00:23:58Guest:So I was watching fish and all the lights and everything, plus I was tripping.

00:24:02Guest:I was like, this is just too much.

00:24:03Guest:The world is just a bunch of colors, and I'm scared, and I can't think.

00:24:08Guest:And my friend was like, we just have to get ice cream.

00:24:12Guest:He got it in my head that that was our mission.

00:24:14Marc:Right.

00:24:15Marc:And when you're tripping, it's like you lock in.

00:24:17Marc:It's like, that is the grail.

00:24:18Marc:Yes, exactly.

00:24:19Marc:It's gonna make everything okay.

00:24:20Guest:And it did, it does.

00:24:21Guest:It worked.

00:24:23Guest:Ice cream always almost worked.

00:24:24Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:24Guest:On whatever state of mind you're in, that makes you feel better.

00:24:28Guest:So you were panicking.

00:24:28Guest:I was panicked.

00:24:29Guest:And then we walked out and I ran into Bart Coleman and he was having a bad time too.

00:24:36Guest:and maybe it was the show it was at fish if you're if you're freaking out that means it's a great show oh that means they've hit something in your soul that that the therapist clearly couldn't find yeah exactly um i can never listen to the song way the same way really again yeah i just remember that moment every time but then it was fine i went back in and where'd you find ice cream

00:24:59Guest:Just one of the shops.

00:25:02Marc:Oh, okay.

00:25:02Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:03Marc:So you went out to the top.

00:25:04Guest:Well, because you feel trapped in there.

00:25:06Guest:I asked the guy if I could go out for a second for some air and just come back in.

00:25:10Guest:Because usually, I've also realized that you have to be outside if you're tripping.

00:25:14Marc:I agree 100%.

00:25:15Marc:Yeah.

00:25:16Marc:And preferably, quite honestly, during the day.

00:25:19Guest:Day trips were my favorite.

00:25:21Guest:The best.

00:25:21Guest:Yeah, at a park, nothing better.

00:25:23Marc:Great.

00:25:24Marc:You know, with nothing to do.

00:25:25Marc:Yeah.

00:25:25Marc:You drop the shit, whatever it is, mushrooms or acid.

00:25:28Marc:You feel it come on, you're like, let's head out.

00:25:30Guest:Yeah.

00:25:30Marc:And that's the whole plan.

00:25:32Guest:It's a great adventure.

00:25:33Marc:Yeah.

00:25:34Marc:Oh, yeah, everything becomes loaded.

00:25:36Marc:And just you and whoever else is tripping, you're just standing there looking at a rock.

00:25:39Marc:You know, and people are walking by, but you're like, no.

00:25:42Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:25:42Guest:You got it all figured out.

00:25:45Guest:Yeah.

00:25:46Guest:And then thinking that everyone knows.

00:25:47Marc:Yeah.

00:25:48Guest:Well, you got to avoid that one.

00:25:49Guest:Yeah.

00:25:49Marc:No, I've had, like, there have been moments, I mean, it's been a long time since I've done any drugs, but I had a couple bad trips where, like, there's always, the worst trips are where you're like, I gotta take more.

00:26:01Marc:That, you know, like.

00:26:03Marc:Yeah.

00:26:03Marc:The only way out is deeper in.

00:26:04Marc:well or else like this is not strong enough hasn't oh right like where you jump the gun on oh man that's the worst the worst yeah yeah because like you know what's happened is it just hasn't kicked in yet so now you're gonna fucking shovel a bunch more mushrooms into your face that's a bad bad mistake oh yeah it's an it's an amateur mistake yeah yeah and i had one yeah i had a bad trip at a jerry show uh where i really jerry garcia jerry yeah solo yeah yeah like a bluegrass type thing like

00:26:30Marc:No, I think it was a Garcia band.

00:26:32Marc:Oh, that's cool.

00:26:34Marc:And it was probably in the early 80s, mid 80s in Boston.

00:26:40Guest:That's when they think they were playing their best.

00:26:42Guest:Yeah.

00:26:43Guest:They found their peak in the late 80s.

00:26:46Marc:I saw them in 84 in Worcester, and I had a pretty good trip, but my friend didn't, and I abandoned him.

00:26:52Marc:There was nothing I could do about it.

00:26:54Marc:Like, you know, that was a fucking bad run.

00:26:56Marc:I drove down with this guy who thought he was gonna get a ticket, and we dropped the fucking mushrooms before we went out to the arena where he was gonna score his ticket, and he didn't score his tickets.

00:27:05Marc:Oh, no.

00:27:06Marc:He's all jacked, and I'm like, I got a ticket.

00:27:08Marc:You're just gonna have to ride this out.

00:27:10Marc:You know, I'll hook up with you later.

00:27:12Guest:I don't mean to be a dick, but... Yeah, I did that to my friend at Hampton Coliseum in Virginia in 07.

00:27:19Guest:Yeah.

00:27:20Marc:Did he... It was Fish's comeback show.

00:27:22Guest:We're still okay.

00:27:24Guest:That was crazy, though, because I bought a ticket for him.

00:27:26Guest:Yeah.

00:27:26Guest:And it was their comeback show, so they were expensive.

00:27:30Guest:It was like a $400 ticket for this one show.

00:27:32Guest:And it was a fake.

00:27:35Guest:And I called the guy who I bought it from, and he was a large African-American fellow.

00:27:42Marc:But you had his number.

00:27:43Guest:Well, because I was like, how do I know this is real?

00:27:46Guest:And he goes, I'll give you my cell phone.

00:27:49Guest:Call me if it doesn't work out.

00:27:52Guest:And it doesn't work out.

00:27:53Guest:And I call him outside the show.

00:27:55Guest:And he says, I'll come meet you there, man.

00:27:59Guest:I'm as pissed as you are.

00:28:01Guest:Whoever I got this from is dead.

00:28:03Guest:And I'm waiting outside.

00:28:05Guest:And of course he doesn't show up.

00:28:07Guest:And I tell my friend,

00:28:08Guest:i gotta go into the show man i flew to virginia to see this band i can't hang out in this parking lot with you and he had already taken stuff too yeah and i went in and had a show but and had a great time i felt a little guilty but the caper to the story is miami two years later and this is in miami at a fish show yeah i was in virginia yeah i see the guy who sold me the fake ticket yeah and i'm like holy shit what do i do i'm alone

00:28:34Guest:And I'm like, he's huge.

00:28:36Guest:I can't, so I don't know.

00:28:38Guest:But something came over me and I went up to him and I was like, hey man, you sold me a fake ticket two years ago in Virginia.

00:28:45Guest:And he's like, no, that wasn't me.

00:28:46Guest:That wasn't me.

00:28:47Guest:Took out my phone, called his phone.

00:28:49Guest:It starts ringing.

00:28:51Guest:And he's like, oh shit, man.

00:28:52Guest:I'm sorry.

00:28:53Guest:I'm sorry.

00:28:54Guest:Here, take a ticket to tonight's show for free, gratis.

00:28:59Guest:All right.

00:29:00Guest:And then of course that one's fake.

00:29:02Yeah.

00:29:03Guest:But what I do is I find his partner.

00:29:06Guest:Yeah.

00:29:07Guest:Because I noticed that he was talking to a guy and I sold that fake ticket to his partner.

00:29:12Guest:No, you didn't.

00:29:13Guest:For an inflated price.

00:29:14Marc:You did?

00:29:14Guest:Yeah.

00:29:15Guest:Then I was like, so that was some sort of justice that I got.

00:29:18Guest:So he thought he was buying a real ticket from a real fish fan.

00:29:23Guest:I was like, I can't make the show.

00:29:25Marc:Maybe you could move this for me.

00:29:26Guest:Yeah.

00:29:27Guest:And so he paid me like 300 bucks for it.

00:29:29Guest:Yeah.

00:29:30Guest:And then I was like, yes.

00:29:31Guest:Yeah.

00:29:32Guest:Got in.

00:29:33Guest:Anyway, that was the greatest moment.

00:29:34Marc:And did you call the guy back and go, fuck you.

00:29:37Guest:No, no, no.

00:29:37Guest:But I do have, I did leave like mean voicemails on that guy's phone for a while.

00:29:41Marc:Why did he give you his real cell phone number?

00:29:42Marc:What a fucking, that's the hilarious thing about it is that he obviously wanted to continue the charade somehow.

00:29:47Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:29:48Marc:Like what was he gonna, like he's gonna do customer service?

00:29:51Guest:Oh, that's a horrible thing that happened.

00:29:53Guest:It did, it worked.

00:29:54Guest:I mean, I bought the ticket.

00:29:55Guest:It gave me peace of mind that he gave me his real number.

00:29:57Marc:Well, scamming hippies is like, you know, there's some evil fucks that do that.

00:30:01Marc:There was one, a guy we picked up, my brother and I drove from Tucson to Anaheim to see the dead in Dylan in 19, holy fuck, I don't know, 87, 88.

00:30:14Marc:I don't know when that tour was.

00:30:16Marc:But I know I wasn't living in L.A., but I was just out of L.A.

00:30:20Marc:And so it must have been shit.

00:30:23Marc:Yeah, probably 87.

00:30:24Marc:So we drive and we're getting there and we pick up some hitchhiker who's obviously going to the show.

00:30:29Marc:This little fucking hippie dude, but not really a hippie.

00:30:32Marc:You know those dudes, there's something wrong with them.

00:30:34Marc:They're like, I'm going to the fucking show.

00:30:36Marc:It's like we got a weird attitude about this whole thing.

00:30:39Marc:It's like, no, fuck.

00:30:40Guest:Fuck you, man.

00:30:40Guest:I love the dead.

00:30:42Guest:They're into it for the wrong reason.

00:30:44Marc:Something.

00:30:45Marc:But we did give him a ride and we ended up letting him stay in the hotel room.

00:30:49Marc:And he just sat there and he ripped up match.

00:30:52Marc:He took a book of matches and started ripping up little pieces of matches.

00:30:56Marc:And he's going to sell him his fucking ass.

00:30:58Marc:Really?

00:30:59Marc:Yeah, and then he had a bag of unidentifiable pills that were, you know, cold medicine.

00:31:03Guest:Right.

00:31:04Marc:That he was gonna sell his other shit.

00:31:05Marc:Oh, that's horrible.

00:31:06Marc:Yeah, and we're watching this, and I'm like, what the fuck is, you know, what are you?

00:31:08Marc:He's like, fuck you, and I'm like, uh, evil fucking guy.

00:31:12Marc:That sucks.

00:31:13Marc:Yeah, his name was Eli.

00:31:15Marc:Eli the evil elf.

00:31:16Marc:Yeah, that's an anagram almost.

00:31:18Marc:Just ripping off fucking hippies.

00:31:20Marc:That's a bummer.

00:31:22Marc:Did you ever get into the dead?

00:31:25Guest:Well, to be honest, I love what the dead are about, and I like reading about them more than I like listening to them.

00:31:32Guest:They don't have enough bite for me.

00:31:34Guest:They're a little mellow, and I know that there's probably some stuff out there I could hear that gives me what I want.

00:31:40Marc:But by the time you got into fish, they were already probably done, really.

00:31:44Guest:Yeah, because Jerry died in, what, 95?

00:31:47Guest:I got into fish in 99.

00:31:48Guest:Yeah.

00:31:49Marc:Oh, so like it wasn't even an option.

00:31:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:53Marc:Like, because I'm like, I'm 49, and by the time I started seeing them, I lived with deadheads in, I don't know, 84, 85.

00:32:01Marc:Right.

00:32:03Marc:And, you know, there was a thing.

00:32:04Guest:Because you were a San Francisco guy?

00:32:05Guest:Yeah.

00:32:05Marc:right no i was in boston oh but these guys were you know i was in college so they were all into it right and you know i'd like them a little bit i mean i saw the grateful dead on the terrapin tour when i was in like ninth grade because my dad was friends with a promoter but i had no idea what the fuck i was seeing did you it was probably one of the best it was probably one of the best times to really see them do all of terrapin and like i was like when are they gonna play casey jones that sucks

00:32:30Marc:So I'm just sitting there with no knowledge of the dead on the floor, like ninth row, wondering why they're taking so long to tune up.

00:32:37Marc:And when does something happen?

00:32:39Marc:And what the fuck is this music?

00:32:40Marc:So you didn't have a great time at that one.

00:32:42Marc:Well, I just didn't have any context.

00:32:44Guest:But did you get a sense of like...

00:32:46Guest:I want to know what all these people are loving about this.

00:32:50Marc:I want to be on the inside.

00:32:51Marc:I've always gravitated towards the hippie sort of thing when I was younger.

00:32:55Marc:I thought they seemed to have something figured out.

00:32:58Marc:There was that whole world of music.

00:32:59Marc:But there was no way I was going to lock into something without hooks.

00:33:04Marc:I just wasn't broad enough.

00:33:07Guest:Yeah, and The Dead doesn't have great hooks to me.

00:33:09Guest:I like Casey Jones.

00:33:11Marc:Oh yeah, it's a great song.

00:33:12Guest:I'm a very surface listener to them.

00:33:14Guest:I like Eyes of the World.

00:33:16Marc:They got a lot of great songs.

00:33:18Marc:Yeah, they do.

00:33:18Marc:Like New Speedway, Boogie, or whatever that is.

00:33:21Marc:Box of Rain.

00:33:22Marc:Oh yeah, and Broken Down Palace.

00:33:24Guest:Yeah, I like all that.

00:33:25Marc:Those two studio records are great.

00:33:27Marc:Oh yeah.

00:33:27Marc:And they put on a good show, but they sort of invented that.

00:33:31Marc:They laid the groundwork.

00:33:32Marc:I have all the respect in the world for them.

00:33:34Marc:I have no idea what Fish does.

00:33:35Guest:Zero.

00:33:37Guest:Well, they take the dad, but then they also take a lot of Boston or Journey or a lot of funk, a lot of jazz.

00:33:46Guest:Then they just all...

00:33:47Guest:they have a lot more influences.

00:33:49Guest:The Dead's influences were like blues and jazz pretty much.

00:33:52Marc:Well, the Dead invented something.

00:33:54Marc:Exactly.

00:33:54Marc:And they invented it at a time that was crucial in American music history.

00:33:58Guest:Absolutely, and it's great, but then Fish got to stand on the shoulder of giants.

00:34:03Marc:Yeah, I'm not criticizing them.

00:34:04Marc:It's just like by the time Fish came along, I was like done with that.

00:34:08Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:34:09Yeah.

00:34:09Marc:Yeah, I understand.

00:34:10Marc:How old were you when you went into the fish world?

00:34:13Marc:15, went to my first show.

00:34:15Marc:So that was prime time?

00:34:17Marc:Yeah.

00:34:18Marc:So you were a fanatic?

00:34:20Guest:Yes.

00:34:21Guest:I was a very moldable piece of clay that just needed something.

00:34:25Marc:And you would follow them around?

00:34:27Guest:Yeah, once I could, I followed them around, yeah.

00:34:30Marc:How many shows did you got under your belt?

00:34:32Guest:Like, in the 80s, I think, at this point.

00:34:35Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:36Guest:They broke up for a lot of my life.

00:34:39Guest:Were you mad?

00:34:40Guest:Yeah, I was lost.

00:34:43Guest:I followed the string cheese incident around for a summer to fill that void, and I don't even like them.

00:34:51Guest:i'm sorry man it must have been a rough time for you it was but now they're back but trey's sober now yeah is that a problem yeah it's a big problem why listen i i love i'll always love trey but they've stopped like jamming a lot and i think that they were a band that was founded in on drugs yeah and when the lead guitarist gets sober and you know tube yeah which is a great song yeah used to be 15 minutes is now three minutes yeah what's going on yeah

00:35:20Guest:Bring the drugs back.

00:35:23Marc:The mathematics is simple.

00:35:25Guest:There's bumper stickers you can get in the lot that say, keep Trey sober.

00:35:28Guest:Yeah.

00:35:29Guest:And I don't know him personally.

00:35:31Guest:Yeah.

00:35:32Guest:So I don't really care if he's sober.

00:35:35Guest:I know him in the context of he plays my fucking crazy music.

00:35:38Marc:Yeah.

00:35:39Guest:So.

00:35:39Marc:Yeah, let's bring it back.

00:35:40Marc:Yeah.

00:35:41Marc:Yeah.

00:35:42Marc:This is supposed to be a risky business.

00:35:44Yeah.

00:35:44Marc:You know, if you're not going to push the envelope, you're a fucking astronaut, man.

00:35:47Marc:Yeah.

00:35:48Marc:You need to go to the moon.

00:35:49Marc:If you're tired of going to the moon, maybe you should teach or something.

00:35:51Marc:Exactly.

00:35:52Marc:I don't know.

00:35:53Guest:And, you know, you got sober, but it probably helps your, it helps what you do because your job is to communicate ideas probably easier.

00:36:02Marc:Yeah, at a reasonable space.

00:36:03Marc:Yes.

00:36:03Marc:You know, that makes sense.

00:36:05Marc:Right, right.

00:36:06Yeah.

00:36:06Marc:At a reasonable pace, there's timing involved.

00:36:10Marc:There's something about music and about certain drugs that kind of turn off the noise, and you can just sort of lock in and ride that thing.

00:36:20Guest:Yeah.

00:36:21Marc:You know, once something becomes kind of methodical or kind of like, you know, package or let's get through this or let's be more responsible.

00:36:30Guest:Turn off your critic.

00:36:31Marc:Yeah.

00:36:32Marc:But once, you know, that goes away, you know, I guess the adventure is gone or the ability to walk into it.

00:36:37Marc:I find that I have more freedom of mind without that shit.

00:36:40Marc:Uh, but like, you know, I'm not a musician, you know, it's just a matter of getting comfortable.

00:36:44Guest:Right.

00:36:45Marc:Exactly.

00:36:46Marc:But, uh, do you, well, how do you work?

00:36:48Marc:Do you work with drugs?

00:36:50Marc:Um, well, Hmm.

00:36:53Guest:Well, I mean, do you like, I mean, sometimes I like to, um, you know, I'll write a first draft of something sober and then like what, uh, uh, parks and rec script or Sarah Silverman or like movies or whatever I'm, I'm writing.

00:37:07Guest:Yeah.

00:37:07Guest:and uh and then maybe get high and and read it you know from another perspective and see it's it's literally like you get to be another person a little bit i need a second set of eyes on this yeah kind of mine yeah the second set of eyes is dumber yeah but uh maybe the audience some weird jokes that you find that you wouldn't have found otherwise and they hold up yeah i think so yeah yeah

00:37:31Marc:So how did, going back to, okay, so you're 15, you do the fish thing, then you're lost, it's a difficult time for you, then fish gets back together, but you're a little more judgmental and it's more expensive.

00:37:44Marc:Yes.

00:37:45Marc:And then, but you're at the performing arts high school.

00:37:50Marc:Yeah.

00:37:51Marc:So what's the transition to doing standup?

00:37:54Marc:When did you start doing that?

00:37:55Guest:When I was 18 at Emerson College.

00:37:59Marc:Oh, you ended up at Emerson?

00:38:00Guest:Of course.

00:38:01Marc:What drove you there?

00:38:04Marc:Which graduate of that program made you go?

00:38:07Guest:I talked to one person, one friend of mine from Houston, whose name is Dana.

00:38:12Guest:And she went there and she said she loved it.

00:38:14Guest:And I went with two of my buddies.

00:38:16Guest:She said there was a good comedy scene in Boston.

00:38:19Guest:I knew that's what I wanted to do.

00:38:21Guest:I was doing a lot of sketch comedy at the time.

00:38:23Marc:At the performance art high school?

00:38:24Guest:No, in Houston, we would rent out theaters and put on shows.

00:38:28Marc:And sketch was the thing?

00:38:30Guest:Sketch was the thing, yeah.

00:38:31Marc:There was a crew of you?

00:38:32Marc:Yeah.

00:38:34Marc:And how'd that go?

00:38:34Guest:We were called Will Act for Food.

00:38:37Marc:Uh-huh.

00:38:37Guest:WAF.

00:38:38Guest:WAF.

00:38:39Guest:It's embarrassing.

00:38:39Marc:It's all embarrassing.

00:38:41Marc:What venues were still around in Houston?

00:38:42Marc:Did you go see comedy at that place where I used to work?

00:38:45Guest:Laugh Stop, man.

00:38:46Guest:That's my whole life was from 12 on I would get into the Laugh Stop I saw.

00:38:51Guest:I would go see Hedberg.

00:38:53Guest:I saw Louie.

00:38:54Guest:I went up to Louie after a show and critiqued one of his jokes when I was 14.

00:38:58Guest:I can only imagine how angry he must have been at me.

00:39:01Guest:Yeah.

00:39:02Marc:which joke i i can't remember it at the time what year was that was it more was he more sound oriented was it before he that was um when i was 14 that was 98 so oh so he was still like you know i'd rather pay for that like this yes that was like waving the peach yeah i have a peach look what a fine peach it is yes so

00:39:23Marc:So that was pre-married Louis, pre-life experience Louis, really.

00:39:29Guest:It was just good, solid, weird jokes.

00:39:31Guest:Absurd jokes, yeah.

00:39:32Guest:And so go see him and Hedberg and Mattel.

00:39:35Guest:You don't remember the joke?

00:39:36Guest:I don't remember the joke at the time.

00:39:38Guest:I performed there.

00:39:39Guest:Did you know the owner, Babbitt, Mark Babbitt?

00:39:41Guest:Babbitt got me my job at the improv.

00:39:43Guest:I was the door guy at the Houston improv, and it was because of him.

00:39:47Guest:Yeah.

00:39:47Guest:Are you still in touch with him?

00:39:49Marc:No, I haven't talked to him in a while.

00:39:50Marc:I wonder what happened to him.

00:39:52Marc:I played it a couple times when he was the guy.

00:39:55Marc:Did you see Hedberg when all the shit went down?

00:39:59Marc:Was that the time you saw him?

00:40:00Marc:Yeah, before that even.

00:40:01Marc:Right, but were you at that show when he ended up busted and shit?

00:40:06Guest:Oh, no, no, no.

00:40:06Guest:I wasn't there.

00:40:08Marc:But yeah, Babbitt and then that weird conservative guy took over and it got a little different.

00:40:13Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:40:14Marc:And then the improv came in.

00:40:15Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:40:16Marc:But you spent a lot of time.

00:40:17Marc:You watched Dave Attell.

00:40:18Marc:He was one of your guys.

00:40:19Guest:Well, when I was at the improv in Houston, I saw Stanhope.

00:40:23Guest:How old were you?

00:40:24Guest:I was 18.

00:40:26Guest:Yeah.

00:40:27Guest:And I got to see Stanhope for his whole run and it was kind of like life-changing for me.

00:40:31Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:40:32Guest:Why?

00:40:33Guest:Uh, well, he was, I forgot what, what, um, around what time or like what material he was doing, but I had just never heard someone be kind of like a, a prophet as well as a standup or something.

00:40:48Guest:It was just much more important than I had ever heard before.

00:40:51Guest:Right, right.

00:40:52Guest:It felt important.

00:40:53Guest:Yeah.

00:40:54Guest:And, and there were only 20 people in the audience or whatever.

00:40:57Guest:And I was like, what the fuck is happening?

00:40:58Guest:This guy is a genius and no one is watching this.

00:41:01Guest:This sucks.

00:41:02Guest:Yeah.

00:41:02Guest:And then in that summer, they gave me my first paid stand-up spot opening for Bobby Slayton.

00:41:09Guest:Bobby Slayton?

00:41:10Guest:The Pitbull.

00:41:10Guest:Sure.

00:41:10Marc:He's great.

00:41:11Guest:Yeah.

00:41:12Guest:And he was also amazing.

00:41:16Marc:There's definitely a work ethic to both those guys.

00:41:18Guest:Absolutely.

00:41:19Guest:I remember I had a bad set, and I was bumming out in the green room, and he walked up, and he said, what's the problem?

00:41:28Guest:And I was like, I just feel bad about that set.

00:41:30Guest:And he's like, what, are you going to be a faggot?

00:41:31Guest:Are you going to go out there and do it again?

00:41:32Guest:And I was like, yes, yes, sir.

00:41:35Guest:And that has stuck with me.

00:41:38Guest:And...

00:41:40Guest:but also Jim short was tough love but it worked yeah sure yeah him and I used to be good friends so he was the feature and he he couldn't he didn't show up one night really I had five minutes maybe eight minutes yeah and he didn't show up and the owner said you got to do 30 up top and I was just I was telling jokes literally from like that I had heard in eighth grade I mean it was it was hell that's a that's a but you learned how to do some time exactly yeah yeah

00:42:09Guest:yeah crowd work that's that's when you learn to do that yeah no one wants to hear crowd work from a fucking 18 year old how'd that go though it was a nightmare yeah i mean it wasn't a good set um how did bobby react to that one he actually respected that he you know yeah i did the time i filled the time yeah because he didn't want to do an hour and a half yeah yeah and he didn't you know he's bobby he can follow anyone yeah he doesn't care yeah

00:42:35Marc:So that's a good baptism into stand-up.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah, it was rough.

00:42:41Guest:But my first real stand-up set just at one of Dick Doherty's Beantown vault in Boston.

00:42:48Guest:Comedy vault, yeah.

00:42:48Guest:Yeah, the comedy vault.

00:42:50Guest:And I had a good set.

00:42:52Marc:This was after that, though.

00:42:54Marc:This was when you were in college.

00:42:55Guest:This was before that.

00:42:58Guest:I'm trying to think of the timeline.

00:43:02Guest:i was doing that was my yeah because the improv was my first paid spot i remember that right so that was the summer when i was 19 i guess oh so you already been to boston yeah i'd been to boston came back and was working there for the summer right okay i get it so when you went to emerson what what was that like uh i mean like had you been to boston before and like were you no i well yeah i'd been with my family once but uh but you were you got into the comedy program what does that even look like over there

00:43:29Guest:Well, there's no real comedy program.

00:43:30Guest:You hear that, that, that Emerson, it's basically like there's a lot of sketch troops and like, that's the equivalent of like a football team.

00:43:38Guest:Like there's like 10 sketch troops and, and that's the thing there, you know?

00:43:44Guest:Yeah.

00:43:44Guest:And you all put on your show and it's very competitive and whatnot.

00:43:49Guest:Yeah.

00:43:49Yeah.

00:43:49Guest:uh emerson really helped me just meet other comedy people right there's not they didn't really teach me there was a comedy class by mike bent there i think mike bent boy scientist yes exactly sure yeah so he taught us yeah there's so there is a sketch class there that who are the other guys that used to work with that there well ron lynch taught the sketch class before sure yeah ron lynch

00:44:13Guest:And also Rick Jenkins was nice about putting Emerson kids up at the studio.

00:44:21Marc:That was new.

00:44:21Marc:That scene was not around when I was there.

00:44:24Guest:Oh, right.

00:44:25Guest:Well, one time it's funny because Rick Jenkins came up to me after.

00:44:30Guest:I came to just watch Joe Mandy do a set because we were friends.

00:44:36Guest:And Rick Jenkins came up to me after and went...

00:44:39Guest:you really fucked me on time tonight.

00:44:42Guest:And I went, I didn't even go on tonight.

00:44:45Guest:I was just a Jewish Emerson kid.

00:44:48Guest:We were just all the same to him.

00:44:50Marc:But I just remember that.

00:44:53Marc:But that's where you really started doing stand-up.

00:44:55Guest:That's where I really, yeah.

00:44:56Guest:And then in the summer and winter, I'd come back to Houston and do the Laugh Stop open mic.

00:45:00Guest:So I was kind of raised in both scenes, I think.

00:45:03Marc:Right.

00:45:03Marc:But that was what you wanted to do.

00:45:05Marc:You were a stand-up.

00:45:06Guest:I was a stand-up and now I'm not.

00:45:08Guest:I haven't done stand-up in like a year.

00:45:10Guest:Yeah.

00:45:11Guest:And, you know, a lot of people think that once you're a stand-up, you've got to be a stand-up.

00:45:18Guest:But really, I just want to make comedy.

00:45:21Guest:It doesn't matter to me how I do it.

00:45:22Guest:If it's stand-up or writing, it doesn't.

00:45:24Marc:Well, I think that's a fairly mature disposition that must come from your healthy upbringing.

00:45:28Marc:Sure.

00:45:29Marc:Sure.

00:45:29Marc:Yeah.

00:45:29Guest:No, because a lot of people are purists.

00:45:31Guest:Aren't you're kind of a purist?

00:45:32Guest:Yeah, I am.

00:45:34Guest:And sold out and got a TV show.

00:45:35Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:37Marc:Finally.

00:45:38Marc:Yeah, I sold out at 49.

00:45:38Marc:Yeah.

00:45:40Marc:What an asshole.

00:45:41Marc:But no, I mean, no, I didn't think that was going to happen.

00:45:45Marc:But when I talk to people who ask me about that.

00:45:48Marc:I say exactly what you just said, but I had to come to it through years of fucking struggle and failure when some guy comes up to me and says, I want to be a stand-up.

00:45:57Marc:I'm like, well, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

00:46:00Marc:If you figure out how to be funny and you figure it out on paper, there's a lot of options.

00:46:05Marc:Exactly.

00:46:06Marc:And the truth of the matter is everybody, a lot of the guys I started with were obviously more mature than I was and realized I'm never going to be a big stand-up.

00:46:16Marc:I'm going to be a showrunner and make more money for life than a stand-up ever makes.

00:46:21Guest:I kind of had that shitty epiphany about, like, you know, I would go, and I did Montreal, and I would do all, but I was never a splash maker at those festivals.

00:46:31Marc:Yeah, me neither.

00:46:31Marc:I was always a problem that seemed, you seemed to be doing something different, but it doesn't seem finished yet.

00:46:37Guest:Well, I mean, you finally got to give the keynote and stuff, you know.

00:46:40Guest:yeah yeah but it was like the way i would do it like yeah devoid of laughs and there was crying in it so yeah yeah once i finally got accepted on my terms you go up there and you weep yeah you gotta reckon with that but you know i i i'm i wasn't like mulaney or hannibal or you know and and i was featuring i never really became a headliner and never really established my voice or something or never felt like i did and we're a joke guy right

00:47:09Guest:I don't know.

00:47:10Marc:I mean, that's where you get joy out of writing jokes, right?

00:47:14Guest:Yes, yeah.

00:47:16Marc:Because people like Hedberg, people like Attell, they have the point of view, but the premium is on the joke.

00:47:24Marc:Right.

00:47:25Guest:Yeah, and in the writer's room, I think that that's my forte, is the jokes, is punching stuff up.

00:47:31Marc:Yeah, and that's never anything.

00:47:33Marc:I could use that.

00:47:34Marc:I mean, are you busy?

00:47:37Marc:Maybe.

00:47:37Marc:Like, if I was a smart guy, like, you know, I just did two hours, you know, to get an hour, you know, 15 or hour and a half for my special.

00:47:45Marc:But, like, I will really just move through shit and, you know, just find the laugh organically.

00:47:51Marc:Whereas if I would have just said, hey, Harris, you got an hour?

00:47:53Marc:Could you take a look at this?

00:47:54Marc:You probably could have saved me a year.

00:47:55Marc:That's true, but that's not your thing.

00:48:00Marc:That's not how I do it.

00:48:02Marc:I'm an idiot.

00:48:02Marc:Yeah.

00:48:02Marc:That's why.

00:48:03Marc:Yeah, because, like, you know, because, like, I'm not...

00:48:07Marc:I'm not narcissistic enough to like, you know, if you would have done that and people would say like, so the special, I'd be like, yeah, I mean, a lot of it was Harris and we don't write your own stuff.

00:48:17Marc:No, I just had him, you know, look at some stuff and he helped me structure it.

00:48:20Marc:So you didn't really do your work at all.

00:48:22Marc:Well, it was more collaborative.

00:48:23Marc:Like, why are we even doing this interview?

00:48:25Marc:So I'd rather just, you know, fail on my own terms and, you know, drag somebody into it.

00:48:29Marc:Very noble.

00:48:29Marc:Yeah.

00:48:30Marc:So really, so you never, when did you come out here?

00:48:35Guest:After college, right after, or what?

00:48:36Guest:For my last semester of college, I interned at Comedy Central.

00:48:41Guest:Oh my God, what was that like?

00:48:42Guest:Just living at the Oakwoods.

00:48:44Marc:Someone else just mentioned that place.

00:48:46Marc:What is that place?

00:48:47Guest:The Oakwoods?

00:48:47Guest:Yeah.

00:48:48Guest:There's a great documentary you should watch on it called The Hollywood Complex.

00:48:52Guest:It's a place where a lot of people stay for pilot season, basically.

00:48:57Guest:It's a lot of kids.

00:48:58Guest:That's what the movie's about, is these kids who come out with their parents.

00:49:02Guest:And so, yeah, it's just a weird place that is pretty much only inhabited by people seeking pilots or cocaine dealers.

00:49:11Marc:Right.

00:49:12Marc:Or has-beens.

00:49:13Guest:or has yeah I think so yeah yeah I heard that's right I can't remember who was telling me about it yeah it's a weird vibe but I didn't know that at the time because I this is my first time in LA it was just normal to me yeah but um yeah so I was doing the Comedy Central thing which almost kept me from getting my Sarah job I feel like what was your job over there

00:49:31Guest:I don't it was kind of enough like I'd answer phones and watch South Park episodes in the vault that wasn't part of it but are you amazed at the consistency of that fucking show

00:49:45Guest:Yeah, it's like comfort food to me.

00:49:48Guest:I know that if I watch it, I'll feel what I feel every time I watch it.

00:49:52Marc:It's bizarre how they really remain relevant and the writing's always sharp.

00:49:59Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.

00:50:01Marc:They're the only show that really thoroughly...

00:50:03Guest:satirizes things it's it's amazing uh yeah they don't well sometimes you're like i don't even know what the fuck this is about but you know it's about something yeah yeah um you never tried to get a writing job over there uh at south park yeah

00:50:19Guest:no i it never it never happened but i know i have friends that did and and it's tough i know you go on that little retreat you know for like a week and then if you aren't good at telling them stories and making the group laugh then you're out like it's like a audition but it's supposed to be a fun retreat where is it in colorado or something it's in like hawaii or something yeah that's the audition you go to hawaii that's basically it yeah you hang out with trey and those guys and they staff what once a year or something

00:50:45Guest:Yeah, basically.

00:50:47Guest:But, you know, people, that's a crazy turnaround.

00:50:50Marc:Yeah.

00:50:50Guest:I mean, they let go of people a lot.

00:50:53Marc:Right.

00:50:53Marc:Yeah.

00:50:53Guest:And I imagine... Seems like a very scary place to work.

00:50:56Marc:Well, I mean, it seems like... But those people usually go on to do other things.

00:50:59Marc:I mean... Yeah, it's a great... You know, I imagine the turnover is...

00:51:03Marc:They find people that are fanatics for it and get it and then just steal all their hungry youth juice.

00:51:08Marc:Yeah, basically.

00:51:08Marc:And then send them out into the world to get their heart broken.

00:51:11Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:51:12Guest:I would have loved to work on that show.

00:51:15Guest:I also would have loved to work on SNL, but I ended up.

00:51:18Guest:coming out here and getting staffed.

00:51:21Marc:How did that work out?

00:51:23Marc:How did you get the first show with Sarah show?

00:51:26Guest:Yeah, that was Sarah.

00:51:27Guest:I mean, I owe it all to Sarah.

00:51:28Guest:She gave me everything.

00:51:29Marc:What was that?

00:51:30Marc:How did that work?

00:51:31Guest:I was just doing stand-up at Largo on the same night as her, and she, a couple months later, emailed me and said, you can submit to this show if you want.

00:51:42Guest:Yeah.

00:51:42Guest:And I did, and I got it.

00:51:43Guest:And I was 21, and it was mind-boggling.

00:51:47Guest:yeah yeah why i mean because i was still such a fan yeah uh of comedy or of her comedy i of her and specifically i mean i i saw her move jesus magic like three times in a theater i brought my parents to see yeah and then two years later i was working for it was just very quick i didn't have to eat shit out here for very long right and um

00:52:11Marc:Well, I think that if you're talented because of how diversified the business is and how close comedians are as a community and certain types of comedians, that if you're good and you have something... Oh, I still don't think... I mean, I still think I'm a fraud, I think.

00:52:25Marc:Well, I'm sure you are, but I mean, you know, eventually you learn to keep that to yourself like every other asshole in the city.

00:52:31Right, right.

00:52:32Marc:What does that even mean, though, Harris?

00:52:34Guest:Well, it means that I got my job based on one stand-up set.

00:52:39Guest:And then if you get a job in L.A.

00:52:41Guest:writing for something, you can get the next job.

00:52:43Guest:You can stay in it just because of the last thing you did.

00:52:47Guest:Yeah.

00:52:47Guest:And...

00:52:49Guest:I write scripts for other people's shows that are made by a panel, a committee.

00:52:57Guest:And so I still don't know if left to my own devices, I could write something good.

00:53:01Guest:I don't know.

00:53:01Guest:I just, I'm always in fear that- Oh, so I see.

00:53:04Marc:So you do a first draft that you think is fine and then they go and rewrite it.

00:53:07Marc:Right.

00:53:08Marc:And then your name sort of stays on it and you still stay in the game.

00:53:11Guest:Yeah, but the truth of the matter is when you see written by-

00:53:15Marc:no i just learned this on my show yeah it was an amazing thing to learn yeah that you know the whole the pattern of it is like you know i came in with nine of the ten stories we all you know there was four of us you know uh there was a show running team and another guy and me we broke the stories we outlined the stories we said here you go right all together yeah yeah and then you go write this one you go write this one so you all go write your scripts and then you look at them again together

00:53:40Guest:Yeah.

00:53:40Marc:And then you punch it up.

00:53:42Marc:And then you go send it off to the network and to the production company and to the studio, whoever's involved.

00:53:48Marc:They have notes and you all adjust to the notes.

00:53:51Guest:Yeah, you could go 30 years in this industry without writing a word.

00:53:58Guest:Yeah.

00:53:59Guest:So, yeah, it's natural to feel like a fraud.

00:54:01Marc:No, but in the same way you're saying that, you know, you can do comedy anywhere, you know what jokes are yours.

00:54:07Marc:I mean, eventually, you know, whatever the final draft is, you can sit there and say, like, well, this is my story, or those are my jokes.

00:54:13Marc:Yes, which I do.

00:54:14Marc:Yeah.

00:54:15Marc:How loud to other writers.

00:54:16Marc:You should.

00:54:17Marc:You know, I mean, it's hard not to.

00:54:19Marc:I mean, that's the trickiest thing about seeing other people's names on TV shows just because they got the script assignment.

00:54:27Marc:It's a guild thing more than anything else.

00:54:29Guest:Absolutely.

00:54:30Guest:And it's such a pet peeve of mine when I see a writer in a sitcom say, watch tonight's blah, blah, blah.

00:54:36Guest:I wrote it.

00:54:37Guest:I'm like, you didn't fucking write that.

00:54:39Guest:Don't take credit for that.

00:54:40Marc:Right.

00:54:40Marc:How do you live with yourself?

00:54:41Marc:That's what I'm saying.

00:54:42Marc:They give up the fraud thing and they realize this is the way the system works.

00:54:46Marc:I was given this script to write.

00:54:48Marc:I wrote it.

00:54:48Marc:We all rewrote it.

00:54:51Marc:The first joke is mine.

00:54:53Marc:Exactly.

00:54:54Marc:And this is the way this works.

00:54:57Marc:So I understand that.

00:54:58Marc:I have the same type of feeling.

00:55:00Guest:I think I'm funny.

00:55:02Guest:I don't really think I'm... I mean... No, I know what you're saying.

00:55:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:05Marc:You're not saying that you're a fraud and that you're not funny.

00:55:08Marc:Yeah.

00:55:08Marc:You're saying that because of the way the system works, you feel like you may get undeserved credit.

00:55:14Guest:Yes.

00:55:15Marc:Absolutely.

00:55:15Marc:There's nothing wrong with that.

00:55:16Marc:That should keep you going for a while.

00:55:18Guest:That self-hatred and... Which I guess is... With stand-up, that is the great thing about it is that it is you.

00:55:25Marc:Yeah.

00:55:26Guest:No one can take that away from you.

00:55:27Marc:That's right.

00:55:27Guest:You wrote that shit.

00:55:28Guest:Well, unless you didn't write that shit.

00:55:30Yeah.

00:55:30Marc:yeah but also you're also struggling against your influences and you know whether or not someone's doing a similar joke or yeah you know like it takes a while to break through to you know what where you can actually say well if someone else is doing an angle on that fuck it i'm not going to do it anymore or my angle is so personal

00:55:45Marc:It's an all other trajectory.

00:55:47Guest:That's the thing now with Twitter and all that.

00:55:49Guest:It's all disposable, dude.

00:55:51Guest:It's all disposable.

00:55:52Guest:Everything's been done.

00:55:53Guest:Everyone's making the same joke.

00:55:56Guest:It's really discouraging.

00:55:58Marc:Well, that's why I sort of retreated to not talk about shit outside of me.

00:56:05Marc:My experience has to be relevant because it's the only thing I actually have.

00:56:10Marc:yeah so that's what I'm putting out there right because then I'm not gonna worry about like oh is anyone doing the joke about me you know and if they are yeah then then I have to yeah right but similar experiences you know also happen yeah I mean it's it's fucking brain bending yeah and and and also people taking ownership of experiences that are general like everybody now because of Twitter and everything else in YouTube is

00:56:35Marc:You know, thinks that they, you know, they own, you know, it's like, yeah, there's still common experience, dude.

00:56:40Marc:If there's fucking, you know, 20,000 of us dumping garbage into the internet every day, you're going to, how can you even accuse anyone of stealing at a certain point?

00:56:48Guest:And I think that there's much more in writer's rooms, at least what I've noticed is, you know, I used to be like, ah, we can't do that joke because that was on.

00:56:56Guest:Stella did that or whatever.

00:56:59Guest:I don't do that anymore.

00:57:00Guest:I don't think anyone gives a shit because there's so much that you just have to keep your head down and not worry about who else has done it because there's just too many mediums.

00:57:09Marc:I got an email from a guy who watched a promo for my show.

00:57:14Marc:There's a scene in my show where I go up and I order a triple espresso over ice from a barista.

00:57:18Marc:The guy goes, we don't do that.

00:57:19Marc:I'm like, what do you mean?

00:57:20Marc:He says, well, we don't put it over ice.

00:57:22Marc:It's the integrity of the bean and whatnot.

00:57:24Marc:And I'm like, all right, well, give me the triple espresso and a glass of ice.

00:57:27Marc:He's like, I'm not doing that.

00:57:28Marc:This happened to me at a coffee shop in New York.

00:57:32Marc:And it's my experience.

00:57:33Marc:So I get an email after a guy sees it in a trailer and says, hey, I just want you to know, heads up, I wrote a piece about ordering a triple espresso over ice.

00:57:42Marc:It got a little traction.

00:57:43Marc:I wrote it on my blog.

00:57:45Marc:And then I talked about it.

00:57:46Marc:It's here on YouTube.

00:57:47Marc:And I'm like, dude, dude, it's obviously not an unusual experience for certain coffee shops to have that policy.

00:57:52Marc:That's crazy.

00:57:52Marc:And then at the end of it, he says, this is also my writing package.

00:57:57Marc:I think we think alike.

00:57:57Marc:And I'm like, you have some balls.

00:57:59Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:58:00Marc:Do you hire the guy?

00:58:01Marc:Of course.

00:58:04Marc:No, but it's just one of those things where it's like, it's a general fucking...

00:58:08Marc:You know, it's like that's the interesting thing about certain comics, you know, about certain people that are compulsive minded people, you know, like Louie or like, you know, making the decision to talk about your life and stylizing in a certain way is that, you know, you you have to insulate your your personality has to be pretty fucking entrenched.

00:58:28Marc:Yeah.

00:58:29Marc:To not just be at that vibration where everything is the same and everybody's talking about the same shit.

00:58:36Marc:It's relentless.

00:58:37Marc:I don't know what we're going to do.

00:58:39Marc:I don't know where the need for the sort of addiction to content and the expectation for everybody to keep dumping their brain into this shit.

00:58:47Marc:I know.

00:58:47Marc:I don't know where it just starts to work against us completely.

00:58:50Guest:And doesn't it also make you feel like the general public is kind of just as good at comedy as you are?

00:58:59Guest:I don't know.

00:59:00Guest:I see... The jokes I read on Twitter, everyone can do that.

00:59:04Marc:Well, jokes are jokes.

00:59:06Guest:Jokes are jokes.

00:59:06Guest:Everyone knows the formula and everyone's doing it.

00:59:09Marc:Yeah, I try to stay away from them.

00:59:11Guest:Yeah.

00:59:11Guest:But that's what you're saying is, yeah, if you...

00:59:14Guest:As long as you make it personal to you, then no one- Even if it's not a joke.

00:59:17Marc:There's not a chance that anyone else is doing that.

00:59:19Marc:Even if it's like, oh my God, what just came out of my ass?

00:59:21Guest:Yeah.

00:59:22Marc:Hashtag scared.

00:59:23Marc:Right.

00:59:23Marc:I mean, you're better off.

00:59:26Guest:But then it's like your life has to be interesting enough to talk about.

00:59:31Marc:Well, where did the sort of humble brag thing, how did that evolve?

00:59:35Right.

00:59:35Guest:um you wrote you got a book of those right yeah i wrote a book on it and then refused to promote it because it seemed kind of antithetical to the whole humble brag so did it sell no why it was number two and instructional books for a week right next to your right next to your father's book yeah exactly the whittles guys owning the charts yeah um

00:59:58Marc:So you're doing Twitter because that was one of those hashtags where I began to resent it.

01:00:05Marc:It's like, now I can't talk.

01:00:06Guest:I've resented it for you.

01:00:08Guest:I mean, when I see people incorrectly call out other people on it, it's very frustrating.

01:00:13Marc:What was the birth of it?

01:00:14Guest:The birth of it was very specifically, well, it's in the book who the first few people were.

01:00:21Guest:Yeah.

01:00:22Guest:You've had them on the show.

01:00:23Marc:Okay.

01:00:25Marc:Who, Patton?

01:00:26Marc:No.

01:00:27Guest:Who were they?

01:00:28Guest:Patton wrote a blurb for it.

01:00:29Guest:Yeah.

01:00:29Guest:I think Donald Glover was on there.

01:00:31Guest:And I think who were the earlier ones?

01:00:35Guest:Bronger was an early one.

01:00:37Guest:You know, people that I'm friendly with.

01:00:39Marc:But there is- I don't think it was a hurtful hashtag.

01:00:45Marc:I think it's funny.

01:00:46Marc:It was completely playful.

01:00:47Guest:And also, I was doing that shit.

01:00:49Marc:Sure, it's a reality check in a way.

01:00:51Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:52Marc:So you just put it out there, it just came to you, and you hashtag something?

01:00:59Guest:I wrote a tweet that was like, guys, if you're gonna brag, please don't be humble about it.

01:01:04Guest:And then the next tweet was like, seriously, don't humble brag.

01:01:08Guest:And I was like, ah, light bulb.

01:01:10Guest:And then I started, and the account...

01:01:14Guest:i came up yeah and i just got it it was primarily a retweeting account it was it's exclusively retweeting and then um you know it started getting some traction and then i started writing a column for bill simmons on grant land which is that like you know and uh and that's where i would kind of do the analysis of them and then from that came the book

01:01:36Guest:And from that came me being completely burnt out on it.

01:01:40Guest:Don't ever want to hear the word again.

01:01:41Marc:Yeah.

01:01:42Guest:I still occasionally will have someone be like, hey, can we interview about it?

01:01:46Guest:I don't even respond to it.

01:01:47Guest:I just can't fucking talk about it.

01:01:49Guest:It's done.

01:01:50Guest:It's done.

01:01:50Guest:Is the account dead?

01:01:52Guest:The account's still up and running.

01:01:55Guest:Sometimes people offer to buy the website because I own humblebrag.com.

01:01:59Guest:Yeah.

01:02:00Guest:And I'll throw a ridiculous number at them and hope they do it, but they never respond.

01:02:05Guest:Yeah.

01:02:06Guest:Just be like, okay, I'll do it.

01:02:06Guest:A hundred thousand bucks.

01:02:07Marc:Yeah.

01:02:08Guest:You can have the website.

01:02:09Guest:Why not?

01:02:09Marc:Yeah.

01:02:10Guest:No.

01:02:10Guest:Right now there's nothing on it.

01:02:12Marc:Yeah.

01:02:13Marc:So.

01:02:13Marc:So that's done.

01:02:15Guest:It's done.

01:02:16Guest:Yeah.

01:02:17Guest:I don't, I update it like once every like four months now.

01:02:19Yeah.

01:02:19Marc:And now you're on staff at Parks and Rec?

01:02:23Guest:Now I'm on Parks.

01:02:25Guest:I did Eastbound for a little bit.

01:02:27Guest:Oh, that's right, man.

01:02:28Guest:Yeah, which actually, that exact guitar was my parting gift when I left.

01:02:33Guest:They gave me that guitar.

01:02:34Marc:Yeah?

01:02:34Guest:Yeah, I love it.

01:02:36Marc:I love that show, man.

01:02:37Marc:I forgot that was your thing.

01:02:39Guest:Well, yeah, I wish it was my thing.

01:02:41Guest:I came in season three and got to write.

01:02:43Guest:I mean, that was my favorite show maybe ever.

01:02:47Guest:Yeah.

01:02:47Guest:And it was amazing.

01:02:49Guest:Why?

01:02:50Guest:It was one of those shows where I was like, man, if I had the freedom to do that's like exactly what I would want to do.

01:02:59Marc:There's only one Danny McBride.

01:03:01Marc:Yeah, that's true.

01:03:03Marc:And, you know, I like the the amazing arrogance of the character that's tempered by.

01:03:09Marc:his complete you know humility yeah is a very tricky thing i can't see anyone else pulling that off there's uh he's just so fucking likable that he can be the worst human on earth and it's still funny yeah so larry david can do it there's very few people that can do it it's rare yeah that's rare and the true and the real crank like a cranky the cantankerous guy yeah is sort of a gift to

01:03:35Marc:Those two kind of guys where they're so likable, they can be dis... But it's not just likability.

01:03:40Marc:They're constantly humbled by their arrogance, yet they don't know it.

01:03:46Marc:And the cranky guy, it's very tricky to be a complainer and have it be endearing.

01:03:52Marc:It's got to be a natural thing.

01:03:53Marc:There's only a few of those around, too.

01:03:55Guest:Does your show kind of have some of that?

01:03:57Marc:I don't know, you know, I'm just being me, and I don't think that I'm like a specifically defined comedic character, but I think that if we- You are.

01:04:05Marc:Yeah, but I think if we look at the episodes, if we get an opportunity to do more, we can go, well, what are the strengths of this guy, you know, in these situations, and how can we write to them better, and hopefully I'll get that opportunity, but I don't really see myself that way.

01:04:18Guest:I don't think IFC cancels shows.

01:04:21Guest:Well, I hope you're right.

01:04:22Guest:I don't think they do.

01:04:24Guest:They kind of just, whatever they like, they'll leave on.

01:04:26Guest:That and Adult Swim, too.

01:04:27Guest:They're just like, oh, all right, we like it.

01:04:29Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:30Marc:So hopefully that happens.

01:04:32Marc:But, okay, so you came in on the third season, so you were able to work with him, and you dug that.

01:04:37Marc:But what's your job over at Parks Week, specifically?

01:04:39Guest:Parks, now I'm supervising producer.

01:04:43Guest:What does that mean?

01:04:45Guest:It doesn't mean anything.

01:04:46Guest:It's a difference in pay grade, I think.

01:04:49Guest:Oh.

01:04:49Guest:Because, I mean, basically, the WGA makes it to where if you stay on a show for, like, another season, they have to give you a bump in title.

01:04:58Guest:Oh, okay.

01:04:59Guest:And another bump in title.

01:05:00Guest:That's interesting.

01:05:02Guest:Really, yeah, but we're all the same.

01:05:04Guest:When we're all pitching jokes in the room, no one's like, oh, that's supervising producer, I better listen to him, versus, oh, that's staff writer, who cares?

01:05:12Marc:It's all the same when you're in there.

01:05:14Marc:Sure, sure, sure.

01:05:15Marc:The big difference is really just showrunners, writers.

01:05:18Marc:Exactly.

01:05:18Marc:Yeah.

01:05:20Marc:And what are you the go-to guy for of their jokes?

01:05:24Guest:Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, I wrote, like, the first Jean-Ralphio scene.

01:05:32Guest:I think I'm good at writing assholes.

01:05:35Guest:Yeah.

01:05:36Guest:Yeah.

01:05:37Guest:Not assholes, but just, like, douchey, lovable assholes, douchey guys.

01:05:41Guest:That's why I had fun writing, you know, Kenny Powers.

01:05:44Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:46Guest:And Aziz's character, you know, that's fun to write.

01:05:49Guest:And Andy Dwyer is fun to write because he's a dumb.

01:05:51Guest:Dumb is the funnest thing to write.

01:05:53Guest:I think the key to any, like, just have, just Homer Simpson, anyone in it.

01:05:58Guest:It's so easy and fun.

01:05:59Marc:Yeah.

01:06:01Guest:But, yeah, I don't, I'm not a good story guy, I don't think.

01:06:06Marc:Yeah.

01:06:07Guest:As, like, pitching, I don't know what a good, what makes a good story sometimes.

01:06:11Guest:I think that's my Achilles heel.

01:06:13Marc:Uh-huh.

01:06:13Guest:Yeah.

01:06:14Marc:Well, when you do, are you writing your own movies now?

01:06:17Guest:Yeah, I'm writing movies and, you know, one,

01:06:21Guest:One idea that I'll have out of like 100 will be good or something.

01:06:25Marc:Have you sold any movies?

01:06:27Guest:I've sold a bunch of scripts, but nothing has been made.

01:06:31Guest:I think one thing is close to being made, so I'm hoping for that.

01:06:36Guest:What's that about?

01:06:37Guest:It's about a Bonnaroo-type music festival that Scott Rudin is producing.

01:06:46Guest:And I'm writing it with my buddy Armin, who I met at Emerson.

01:06:52Guest:And we're going to go out to New York and do a final pass on it with Rudin.

01:06:57Marc:That's exciting.

01:06:58Marc:He's a big guy.

01:07:00Guest:Yeah, I mean, he's an amazing producer.

01:07:03Guest:He's very...

01:07:04Marc:And it all takes place at this festival?

01:07:06Marc:Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

01:07:07Marc:Is it a story based on characters?

01:07:09Guest:Yeah, it's all... We try to... Days and Confuse is like my favorite movie.

01:07:13Marc:Really?

01:07:13Marc:Of all time, yeah.

01:07:15Guest:Why is that?

01:07:17Guest:Because you grew up there?

01:07:18Guest:Maybe because there's some Houston love in it, but also just that ensemble...

01:07:24Guest:I don't know.

01:07:25Guest:I like that way of storytelling to follow all these different things.

01:07:29Guest:And it takes place in one night.

01:07:31Marc:And I don't know, just incredibly watchable.

01:07:34Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:35Guest:Yeah.

01:07:35Guest:So it's kind of that where it's like five friends and we just follow all their different stories.

01:07:40Marc:Oh, that's interesting.

01:07:41Marc:Yeah.

01:07:42Marc:Yeah, it's not going to be like the Woodstock movie, right?

01:07:45Marc:Well, let's hope not.

01:07:46Marc:Near the Ang Lee movie?

01:07:47Guest:Yeah, no, I know which one.

01:07:48Guest:I mean, it's hard.

01:07:49Marc:I don't know.

01:07:50Guest:It's hard to shoot a festival movie, just logistically.

01:07:53Marc:Yeah, it's weird.

01:07:53Marc:I think that, like, you know, sadly, you know, with that movie, it's like, I'm not sure he, you know, out...

01:07:59Marc:all the stuff outside of the character business, you know, to have, we have, what's his name, Schrodinger?

01:08:05Marc:Liv Schrodinger.

01:08:06Marc:In the dress, that was not the right choice.

01:08:09Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:09Marc:But in terms of how, the sad thing about the 60s is that if you do it well, it looks stupid.

01:08:15Marc:You know, it probably was pretty good.

01:08:18Marc:Yeah.

01:08:19Guest:Well, so this is more about festivals now, how they're not like the 60s.

01:08:23Guest:It's these guys that, you know, want that experience, but now it's all electronic music and ecstasy.

01:08:29Guest:It's just a different time.

01:08:30Marc:Right.

01:08:31Marc:And there's all types of, you know, thing, you know, the convergence of the different types of people on music festivals, especially because there's nine stages.

01:08:39Marc:Every type of music is represented.

01:08:41Marc:And, you know, there's no homogenization to the type of people that go.

01:08:45Marc:Yeah.

01:08:45Marc:So it's this big clusterfuck of.

01:08:47Guest:Which I can't tell if it's a plus or a minus yet.

01:08:50Marc:I'm not sure either.

01:08:51Marc:I know that I don't go to them.

01:08:52Guest:You're not a big Coachella guy?

01:08:55Marc:No, fuck no.

01:08:56Marc:You know, look, it might have something to do with age.

01:08:58Marc:I was never a huge concert guy, but I went to Bonnaroo and I did comedy there.

01:09:02Marc:And I chose not to go back just because it's hot.

01:09:05Marc:There's no relief from it.

01:09:06Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:09:07Marc:And I did get, you know, we did get special treatment a little bit to see the Radiohead concert.

01:09:11Guest:Yeah.

01:09:11Marc:But even that, it was menacing because, you know, we got to stand in an area, you know, that wasn't as densely populated and, you know, you didn't feel like you were going to be trampled.

01:09:19Marc:Was it that VIP riser area or was it like side of the stage?

01:09:23Marc:No, it was like in front of the stage, but it was like this weird VIP pen that had to do with a service that people paid a lot of money for to be on a bus.

01:09:32Marc:And then we just kind of glommed on through the promoter into this area.

01:09:36Marc:But there were moments there where they were opening pens and just this flood of fucking people.

01:09:41Marc:I'm like, you know, I'm almost 50.

01:09:43Marc:Yeah.

01:09:43Marc:Well, listen, I'm 28 and it's a lot.

01:09:45Guest:it's just overwhelming it was great to watch and once i'm there i'm cool yeah but the actual from getting from point a to point b not not a good time well you know you can watch all the coachella sets live now on your computer yeah i don't know if that's your thing but there's got to be a few bands that you enjoy stone roses or something i don't know them no okay

01:10:05Guest:I do enjoy it.

01:10:05Marc:I enjoy it.

01:10:06Guest:But yeah, I mean, literally next weekend you should watch it on your computer.

01:10:09Marc:Are you going to?

01:10:10Guest:Yeah, I did it this past weekend and it was amazing.

01:10:13Guest:A band plays a song I don't like, go to the bathroom.

01:10:17Guest:To be able to watch that from your couch, why the fuck would you ever go to a festival ever again?

01:10:24Marc:Right, yeah, because it probably sounds better even.

01:10:26Guest:Absolutely.

01:10:28Marc:All right, man.

01:10:28Marc:Well, I think we did it.

01:10:29Marc:Cool.

01:10:30Marc:You feel good?

01:10:31Guest:I feel great about it.

01:10:32Guest:Yeah?

01:10:33Guest:It's a weight off my shoulders to be done with it.

01:10:36Marc:I'm glad to... Well, I guess that's good.

01:10:38Marc:Yes, it's great.

01:10:39Marc:All right, man.

01:10:40All right.

01:10:45Marc:That's our show.

01:10:47Marc:That's Harris Whittles.

01:10:48Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.

01:10:50Marc:I like that guy.

01:10:50Marc:All right, go to WTFPod.com.

01:10:53Marc:Get all your WTFPod needs met.

01:10:55Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.

01:10:57Marc:Get that WTF blend.

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01:11:00Marc:Thank you very much.

01:11:01Marc:Check the episode guide.

01:11:02Marc:Get the app.

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01:11:04Marc:Leave a comment.

01:11:06Marc:Do what you got to do.

01:11:07Marc:I'm so thrilled that you still love my show.

01:11:09Marc:I hope everybody's good.

01:11:11Marc:I'll see you in Rochester.

01:11:12Marc:Maybe I'll see you in Toronto.

01:11:14Marc:And that's it.

01:11:17Marc:Boomer lives!

01:11:37you