Episode 423 - Hunt Sales
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck is sugar?
Marc:What the fuck sticks?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:And what the fuck tarians?
Marc:That's enough for today.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:I am Mark Marin.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Interesting show today.
Marc:Music based show today.
Marc:I'm going to hang out with Brendan Small.
Marc:You may know him from...
Marc:his very popular television cartoon animated show, Metalocalypse.
Marc:You may know him from his work on home movies.
Marc:You may know him as the guy who's got his own guitar named after him.
Marc:What about that, man?
Marc:So he called me up and he said, the Epiphone Thunder Horse Explorer, that is his guitar.
Marc:You mind if I come out over to the house and talk about it?
Marc:So we worked it out, and I got myself an Epiphone Dot and an Epiphone SG, and Brendan got on here.
Marc:What initially started out as the idea that we would plug his guitar turned into just a guitar nerd session.
Marc:I thought we'd just do an ad or something like that, because I'm being straight with you.
Marc:I like to play guitar.
Marc:I wouldn't buy a new guitar, but if I get a new guitar, I'll take a new guitar, and if I can hang out with my friend and fuck around with his guitar, I'm all for it.
Marc:That sounds like a win-win-win all around, but ended up being this classic guitar nerd session, really, and with a great guitar player, so that's coming up.
Marc:What else have we got?
Marc:Hunt Sales, who was and is one of the great rock drummers, was in the band that played behind Iggy Pop on The Idiot.
Marc:He is responsible for that opening drum riff and the drums throughout the album.
Marc:But that opening drum riff of Lust for Life, which is one of the greatest drum introductions in the history of rock music.
Marc:He started playing when he was a teenager.
Marc:He and his brother, Tony, were the rhythm section for not only Less for Life, but for Tin Machine.
Marc:But when they were like 17, when they were in their teens, these two guys played on Todd Rundgren's first two albums.
Marc:But what I was mildly obsessed with was that they were Soupy Sales' kids, Soupy Sales' a comedian.
Marc:And I remember when I first ran into Hunt, you know, he was this hardcore looking rock and roll dude.
Marc:And I just couldn't get past the fact that that was Soupy Sales' kid.
Marc:And he played drums on Lust for Life.
Marc:I'm like, to me, that was like beyond fascinating.
Marc:And so when I had the opportunity to hang out with Hunt in Austin...
Marc:I met him once or twice, and I just tracked him down, and we hung out in a hotel room and talked about drumming, a little bit about Soupy, about Iggy, about Bowie, about his life, and I was thrilled.
Marc:I was thrilled to hang out with Hunt.
Marc:So that's coming up.
Marc:Let's go through the calendar because I want to make sure people know where I'm going to be.
Marc:Saturday, September 21st, I will be at the Rochester Fringe Festival in Rochester, New York.
Marc:Tuesday, September 24th, I will be in Toronto, Ontario for the Just for Laughs 42 thing.
Marc:Two shows up there.
Marc:Friday, October 4th, I will be here.
Marc:Doing a live WTF at the Los Angeles Podcast Festival.
Marc:You can go to lapodcast.com and check out that.
Marc:I will be in San Francisco in conversation with Adam Savage.
Marc:That's on October 16th.
Marc:And he's going to be talking to me about me, I guess.
Marc:He's interviewing me, but I feel like it's going to go both ways.
Marc:That is for the city arts thing.
Marc:It's a benefit, I believe, city arts and lectures.
Marc:It's a public radio thing.
Marc:So that's what's coming up in the immediate future for me.
Marc:Obviously, I'll be around.
Marc:I've been busy writing my show.
Marc:We're deep into the beginning phases of writing the next season of Marin on IFC.
Marc:It's very exciting.
Marc:We're doing what you call a breaking story.
Marc:That means there's one, two...
Marc:Three, four, five, six of us in a room sitting there with a bunch of my ideas and some for stories and fleshing them out.
Marc:It's a big difference between an event and a story.
Marc:You know, I think I got a head full of stories, but you might just have a head full of events because stories sort of have to go from A to B to C. And then like what happens?
Marc:But it's going well, man.
Marc:We've been at it a couple weeks.
Marc:We've sort of fleshed out a little bit, about eight or nine of them, and it's very exciting.
Marc:It's very taxing.
Marc:It's hard work.
Marc:I don't know if you want to believe that or not, but it is to put stories together, and it's looking good.
Marc:So that's a deep tease for the next season of Marin.
Marc:You know, I got this stray cat outside.
Marc:I've told you about him before.
Marc:I got this little black cat that's been coming around, and he's deaf.
Marc:I got a deaf, wild cat outside.
Marc:I don't know how he lives.
Marc:He must be one tough fucking cat, or he doesn't do much.
Marc:But he's out there in the wild with hawks and coyotes, and he's been coming around for over a year.
Marc:Completely fucking deaf, this cat.
Marc:Well, he showed up the other day, and I think he lost an eye.
Marc:And I didn't know if it was infected.
Marc:He doesn't come around that often.
Marc:He comes around sometimes.
Marc:And I saw him a few days ago, and his eye was all fucked up.
Marc:And I think he lost it.
Marc:I think he lost his eye.
Marc:And then he came by a couple days ago, and it's all swollen shut.
Marc:And now he's just this deaf cat with one eye, and it's just breaking my fucking heart.
Marc:And I got I got a trap today.
Marc:I'm going to trap him and get him fixed up, get his eye fixed.
Marc:I called my neighbor.
Marc:I said, you know, I'm going to trap the cat.
Marc:And he goes, why are you going to take him in to have him put down?
Marc:And that didn't even occur to me.
Marc:And I'm like, why would I do that?
Marc:He's like, well, he can't hear.
Marc:And he lost an eye.
Marc:And he's why he's out there in the wild.
Marc:Yeah, but he's got a good spirit.
Marc:You know, he shows up, his tongue's hanging out.
Marc:You know, he's afraid of me, but he's eating.
Marc:And, you know, and he seems to be managing out there.
Marc:To me, some sort of symbol of strength and cunning and survival.
Marc:This deaf black cat.
Marc:And I haven't seen him today.
Marc:I didn't see him yesterday either.
Marc:And I want so badly for him to be alive still.
Marc:And I didn't even think to have him put down because I just want to get his eye fixed.
Marc:And I just want him to go back into the wild and be this symbol of survival for me.
Marc:I don't know what the right thing to do is, but he doesn't seem unhealthy.
Marc:If I can catch him and if he's still alive...
Marc:I'll bring him to the vet and I'll get him checked out.
Marc:And if he's healthy and he's not sick in any way, I hope it's okay that I let him back out.
Marc:He won't live with people.
Marc:He won't live in the house.
Marc:He's a feral cat.
Marc:I don't really know what to do with him, but I don't want to put him down just because he can't hear.
Marc:And he's only got one eye.
Marc:Maybe it's the right thing to do, but I love that guy.
Marc:And I love that he's out there in the world and he's fighting the good fight.
Marc:But maybe I'm being selfish.
Marc:Maybe I should try to find him a home.
Marc:I'll let you know what happens, but I'm definitely going to try to trap him and at the very least get his eye fixed.
Marc:And, you know, I guess I should try to find him at home.
Marc:I think that's what we need to do.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:So sad.
Marc:He's got one eye and he can't hear.
Marc:It's almost like I feel like I should write a fable about him.
Marc:I think he's a living metaphor.
Marc:Someone suggested a folk song.
Marc:maybe that's it but you know in the immediate uh situation i d i need to hopefully get him and get him help all right so listen folks let's go to my conversation with brendan small and if you don't mind i hope this is more upbeat for you we're gonna we're gonna nerd out on guitars we're gonna talk about his uh the thunder horse the epiphone guitar that uh
Marc:is in honor of Brendan Small.
Marc:It's an important day, and it's an important event for Brendan.
Marc:I was glad to be here to help him promote his guitar, to watch him play his guitar, to trade some licks, and ultimately, to get me a couple guitars.
Guest:Starting to sound like Guitar Center in here.
Marc:All right, so, all right, let's talk for a minute.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So, I'm here with... Oh, man, all the buzz stopped.
Guest:Where'd the buzz... I think that's me over here.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:You put this thing next to a light, sometimes these things go crazy.
Marc:You can't fucking control anything.
Marc:No.
Marc:You can't, like, you know, you get all this good equipment, and then all of a sudden you're up on stage, and you're wrestling with a fucking... Absolutely.
Guest:But that happens... That happens to everybody.
Guest:And it happens... There's dirty power that happens in every single line everywhere.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So people have these, like, power cleaner kind of things that they have to bring along with their racks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they've got something that... They make sure the power is a regulated power.
Guest:Right.
Guest:People have it.
Guest:Guys from, like... Guys that are, like, just tone freaks to, like, Megadeth have...
Guest:a guy but do they have a guy that's just sort of like where's the guy the power guy they have a guy that comes in and he says why is it so buzzing oh you're fucking you got a million of fluorescent lights they sound like shit everywhere i went and did an amp clinic yeah where i was i was i was then i was demoing an amp and uh and it's a good amp and i wouldn't i wouldn't demo it if i didn't think it was cool and uh the whole thing just sound like
Guest:I'm like, gentlemen, gentlemen, you sell electronic instruments.
Guest:You're trying to make these things sound good, and it sounds like garbage in here because you've got 4,000 fluorescent lights that generate this 60-cycle hum.
Marc:Well, Brendan Small is here, and we are talking, obviously, gear.
Marc:We're talking gear.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I've got mics.
Marc:I've got amps mic'd up here, and the reason...
Marc:I wouldn't even know how to make that sound.
Marc:Yeah, I'll show you later on.
Marc:I'll show you later on.
Marc:You're not going to show me anything I'll remember.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Well, we've talked over, you've been on a couple of times for different reasons.
Marc:You were on originally to just talk, and then I think we talked about the record.
Marc:It was just that one time, I think, didn't we?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You tell me if I did.
Guest:Well, this is a big event.
Marc:Either way, yeah, it's cool to be here.
Marc:You've crossed, not a comic grail, but certainly a grail of a musician, and you've designed and they've released a guitar that is the Metalocalypse guitar.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So this is a guitar originally made by Gibson, but we sold out of them, and people wanted this guitar, and it's called the Thunder Horse.
Guest:And now Epiphone, who is part of the company of Gibson, built this guitar, and they built a lot of great guitars.
Marc:Thunder Horse.
Guest:It's called the Thunder Horse.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, was this a funny name?
Guest:No, there's a song called Thunder Horse.
Guest:By Metalocalypse.
Guest:By Metalocalypse, yeah.
So there's like a... Yeah.
Guest:you get this like a bunch of crazy but that's the song called thunder horse and it was like uh anyway it's a song people know it in the show so now okay so epiphone now you can get these from epiphone yeah and i'm i'm proud of you this is a big time it's cool moment it's cool you know
Guest:what i why the explorer body what would when you were okay let's talk about designing a guitar you're like all right do what you want yeah you get to make a guitar you know what what i wanted to do is this is my opportunity gibson i'm a big fan of gibson and we endorse him on the show but they didn't have a certain couple of things on the market that i wish they had and i basically said i'm not doing too much of this guitar because it's already great i took an explorer and i said do a silver burst because i was a big fan of these uh they did a really cool line of these guitars in the early 80s called e2s and e1s and
Guest:I loved them, and I just wanted to swap out the pickups, because I like really clean, old-school, like, basically the pickups that Led Zeppelin used, or, you know, back in the day when they played Les Pauls and all that stuff.
Guest:And I wanted my guitar to sound like a Les Paul inside of a big, scary metal body.
Guest:But it's still, the way I look at this guitar is, it looks like classic rock.
Guest:It looks like old Def Leppard or something like that, too.
Marc:No, it definitely does.
Marc:I like the Silver Sun verse.
Guest:Here's the thing.
Guest:I've been playing guitar for 22 years.
Guest:I can't believe how much I still like the guitar.
Guest:I like to wake up and I like a guitar to be in my eyeline.
Guest:That's how much I really like guitar.
Guest:And I just really, I go, I like to look at one.
Guest:If I'm not playing one, I'll sit and look at one for about 45 minutes.
Guest:And I'll use a metronome to time myself.
Guest:Now you must have, do you use a, you do sometimes.
Guest:I do, I do.
Guest:It's a big difference.
Guest:When you're recording, I don't know if you've recorded before, but you'll find out the first thing you'll notice is everyone's rhythm sucks.
Guest:You'll anticipate, you'll be behind the beat, you'll do all kinds of crazy stuff.
Guest:So you've always got to work with a metronome.
Guest:So if you're working on stupid, crazy, fast, like some of that stuff,
Marc:But you now have as many guitars as a guitar center.
Marc:Do you find that you still go to a guitar center or can you just go into that other room in your house?
Guest:I threaten my girlfriend often to take her in there just to pay her back for restoration hardware.
Marc:To take her to the guitar center?
Marc:This is guitar center!
Guest:Just to hear an army of guys going... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So yeah, you have a million guys doing that.
Guest:But every time I go to a restoration hardware or a pottery barn, I go, no, you don't understand.
Guest:This is Guitar Center for me.
Guest:The feeling that I'm feeling now is what you feel when I drag you to a Guitar Center.
Marc:You can appreciate a knob.
Guest:I can appreciate a knob.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:I like Edison bulbs.
Marc:Okay, explain to me as a novice, as a guy who just plugs in a guitar.
Marc:So this guitar that you've designed, what is it, the Thunderfuck?
Marc:The Thunderhorse.
Marc:The Thunderhorse.
Marc:So give me an example of what that would be.
Guest:So here's just the sound of the guitar.
Marc:I've got all that gaming stuff, but if you... See, that sounds pretty.
Marc:You wouldn't expect a guitar that looks that dangerous to be that lovely.
...
Guest:So you can get like nice jazzy sounds.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But it sounds full.
Guest:It doesn't sound thin or wimpy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because when I'm sitting there making music for Metalocalypse, I'm going to play a death metal song for one second.
Guest:Then I've got to turn around and play some weird jazzy chord structure because I want to have like a restaurant scene and I want to do that.
Guest:So you do all that.
Guest:But I want something and I want something that sounds like, you know, like...
Guest:so i gotta have like some kind of weird country like you know like you have no choice but to continue learning about these instruments and why they work so you find out what capacitors and and all those things are and how they affect your volume pot and all that stuff how's your comedy that's a good question that's a good question i could i could sit there and talk about this stuff
Guest:Let's just go through one... One fast rock and roll leg?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:I want to know what you would do if I was just like in E. Usually I just go for the simple thing.
Guest:The older I get...
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Guest:And then I'll do a little bit of... There.
Guest:There's enough fast stuff.
Guest:I feel obligated now at this point in my career to have to play at least one fast thing.
Guest:Some scrambly fast thing.
Guest:Yeah, now what would you do over that thing?
Guest:You an E?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Sorry, that was the worst turnaround I've ever done.
Guest:I don't feel that bad about that.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:I don't feel bad about what I did there.
Guest:Your guitar sounds really good, and the playing sounds really good.
Guest:I think I've gotten better, man.
Guest:But the thing is, it does sound good.
Guest:And I would say this to anybody who's playing guitar.
Guest:You've got a really cool amp.
Guest:It's a nice tube amp, and you've got a good guitar that works, so everything else is your fault.
Guest:So if something doesn't sound right, it's your left or right hand.
Marc:Well, this guy from At Mars Amplification sent me this amp.
Marc:It sounded great for a couple days, and then I blew a tube.
Marc:I don't know if that was my fault or what, but he built me this thing.
Marc:I'll talk about that later.
Marc:Yeah, you rocked too hard.
Marc:That's what happened.
Marc:I think that's what happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so people, I think my audience primarily are people like my age or maybe your age.
Marc:Not primarily, but...
Marc:I would hope that the people listening right now are like, oh yeah, get one of them.
Marc:That sounds pretty good.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:They're affordable.
Guest:They're cheaper than you think they are.
Guest:Epiphones are reasonably priced.
Marc:They're reasonably priced.
Marc:And they're heavy guitars, dude.
Marc:I mean, like this one, this SG, I was surprised.
Marc:Because when you think Epiphone, you think like, well, Gibson's really the Gibson.
Marc:And then Epiphone, it's the same fucking guitar.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:If someone just taped up the headstock, I wouldn't be able to tell this from a Gibson.
Guest:You couldn't, man.
Yeah.
Guest:Is there a difference?
Guest:Well, they're built elsewhere.
Guest:And the thing is, Gibson is built in the U.S., and that just has a lot of value for guitars.
Guest:But that's really it, though?
Guest:That's it.
Guest:And the thing is, the way guitars are built these days, they're not like they used to be, where a luthier would sit there whittling down a neck in his backyard.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They're made through computers, so you're going to get straight neck every single time, or they're not going to sell it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you're not going to get a warped, screwed up neck.
Guest:You're going to get something that really works.
Guest:But that doesn't encourage you to be like, well, I had to work around this.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:But it sort of defined my sound because it was warped a little bit.
Guest:You can always raise your action and make your guitar really horribly hard to play if you really want to.
Guest:It's there sitting there if you really want to do that.
Marc:Are you doing, is Metal Acalypse, where are we at with that?
Guest:I'm doing an hour long rock opera from beginning to end.
Guest:No dialogue, all music.
Guest:It's really cool.
Guest:It's the coolest thing we've ever done.
Guest:And it's going to be the cartoon?
Guest:It's going to be the cartoon.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:It's one hour long.
Guest:It's got elements of heavy metal, of Andrew Lloyd Webber, of I don't know if it's Japanese, Euro pop, whatever it is.
Guest:But I've got so many different styles of music in this thing that it really is a fun way to tell a story.
Marc:You've now figured out to do exactly what you want to do, and now it's just in the trappings of comedy.
Marc:Barely.
Guest:Yeah, no, but you know what?
Guest:Metalocalypse has made me miss going out there and failing on stage.
Marc:You want to go tonight?
Marc:You could probably go out and fail.
Guest:I can do it.
Guest:No, I've been doing a lot more stand-up this past year, and it's been a really fun, crazy experiment getting back on stage and realizing, alright.
Guest:I used to have a couple of muscles, but it's like going back to the gym and lifting as heavy as you can, and the next day you're just sore.
Guest:You're crying.
Guest:You're a failure.
Guest:No, you're moping around like, what did I do?
Guest:It was, oh, I lifted too much.
Guest:I wasn't ready to do 25 minutes for people that paid like 18 bucks.
Guest:What about the record?
Guest:How's that doing?
Guest:The records did really well.
Guest:The Last Metal Death Album 3 hit number 10 in the Billboard Top 100.
Guest:What about your solo?
Guest:Solo record did nicely.
Guest:Basically, I don't go and check out anything.
Guest:I have it available, and then I get checks from iTunes and stuff, and it's nice.
Guest:It's paid for itself, and then some, which is cool.
Guest:I do it pretty much not to make money, but for fun with my solo stuff.
Guest:You've carved out an interesting career for yourself.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:You know, I'm not interested in any of that shit, though.
Guest:I really don't give a shit about it.
Guest:About what career?
Guest:About any of the stuff I've done because I don't think it's interesting.
Marc:What are you talking about?
Guest:Meaning the stuff I'm not good at is the stuff that I'd rather be doing right now.
Marc:Well, of course.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's just one of those luxury problems of success.
Marc:It's like, hey, you know, I love making these beautiful records and pushing the limit musically and rocking out.
Marc:But I really want to do the thing that really makes no money and hurts my feelings.
Marc:Well, that's what I'm doing now.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, welcome back.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:Well, look, congratulations.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:It's a cool guitar.
Guest:Go check it out online on epiphone.com or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's called the Thunder Horse.
Guest:Right on, dude.
Guest:Thanks, Randy.
Guest:Cool, thanks.
Marc:All right, so was that an exciting Guitar Nerd Out session for you?
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:I hope it resonated.
Marc:I hope it played well.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed it.
Marc:We did.
Marc:I guess you could probably go to Guitar Center and have a similar experience, but not with me and Brendan.
Marc:Now we enter the Hunt Sales portion of...
Marc:I met with Hunt.
Marc:He came to my hotel room in Austin, Texas.
Marc:Again, I want to make it clear that I'm slightly obsessed with Hunt Sales.
Marc:I love his fucking drumming.
Marc:He's a true rock and roll spirit.
Marc:And the fact that he's Soupy Sales, his son, just was a complete obsession of mine.
Marc:And, you know, we talk about it and we did not play as big a part in his life as I thought.
Marc:You know, Subi Sales was a comic I knew as a kid who I actually met on an airplane.
Marc:I tell Hunt that, I believe.
Marc:But I was just thrilled to meet him because he's a hardcore rock and roll character, you know, and he had quite a story.
Marc:And I hope you enjoy that.
Marc:So let's go to me and Hunt in Austin, Texas.
Marc:You got a great voice, man.
Guest:It took a while to get it this way.
Guest:A lot of cigarettes.
Marc:Hunt Sales is my guest.
Marc:I might as well intro that right up front.
Marc:Hunt Sales is responsible for one of the most signature drum introductions in rock and roll.
Marc:You've heard that before.
Marc:no i'm hearing it now i like it keep going nobody like if you hear the opening drum riff of iggy pop's lust for life which everybody fucking knows that's you yeah yeah do you remember that day oh yeah i remember that i remember uh flying to berlin germany yeah um and uh
Guest:Getting to bed, flying forever to get there.
Guest:And then going out that night, I had a friend of mine who didn't live too far from where we were staying and staying up with him doing God knows what.
Guest:And then getting a phone call early in the morning, let's go to work.
Guest:Of course, Iggy and David had been there for weeks or months.
Marc:David Bowie?
Guest:Yeah, so they were ready to work and I was just tired.
Guest:hired i mean you know besides what we were doing the night before but just you know that flight yeah let's go and i remember they called me several times and finally i got out of bed and and made my way over to the studio and uh we just started recording and i that record
Guest:four or five days we did the whole record yeah and wrote it in the studio uh iggy had a lot of stuff kind of together lyrics and ideas for songs yeah a few songs yeah here they here's here's how this goes but a lot of it was put together it was a group effort where were you living i was living in california at the time so you just got the gig who got you the gig um
Guest:Prior to Iggy, I was working with a guy named Bob Welsh.
Marc:When he left Fleetwood Mac?
Guest:Yeah, he left Fleetwood Mac, and he got himself a deal with Capitol.
Guest:And weird thing is, he had this drummer, Tom Mooney, who also worked with Todd Rundgren, who I'd worked with.
Marc:Which album was the Rundgren's you on?
Guest:I'm on his Runt, his first solo breakthrough record, and We Gotta Get You A Woman was his hit after that.
Marc:That's you?
Guest:Yeah, that's me.
Guest:I was 15 when we did that.
Guest:15 years old?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I did a few tracks on a few of the other albums he did.
Guest:I'd do a track or two here or there.
Guest:He decided to use some other people.
Marc:Were you some sort of drum prodigy?
Marc:I mean, how the fuck at 15?
Marc:Or was it the novelty of it?
Guest:No.
Guest:You know...
Guest:So much, and you probably could, as Norman Crosby would say, detest to this, but is being prepared, having your stuff together, the timing, luck.
Guest:Luck is really... But you say you're lucky and the timing is there, being prepared and being able to really do it.
Guest:So regardless to whatever...
Guest:um more or less i had my style and i had you know at that age i had been playing for i started playing at six seven years old and your brother you you worked with your brother tony then too yes and so tony sales was how is he older than you he's a two years older so he's only 17 so did he play on these records with you yes so here's the deal yeah um
Guest:was with Bob Welsh with Paris and I had gotten we had I had joined up with him with a band called Paris yeah and we were touring lots of touring back then before MTV you know you'd go in and play Milwaukee or whatever and then the next day you'd see well we sold a thousand units so we did a lot of touring and I had come down with Bell's palsy we were out to
Guest:Your face fell down?
Guest:Yeah, the side of my face was, I don't know.
Guest:It was numb or whatever.
Marc:How old were you now, 20 with Bob Welch?
Guest:Yeah, 21, 20-something.
Guest:So I get back, and then it dissolves.
Guest:He decided to go more solo and forget the Paris thing.
Guest:And I was recuperating, and then I get a call later.
Guest:from uh david's handlers as they say yeah in the business and what david had done is he had hooked up with iggy and more or less iggy was living on the street basically and didn't have a record deal and was not in great shape david came along took him to berlin helped him get his shit together got him a deal for our on rca records they had recorded one record
Guest:the idiot yeah the idiot album and then they were getting ready to tour and it was like well who do we call and they said let's call the sales brothers they knew we'd show up and do a good job and and had a certain thing going but this goes back uh james williamson the guitar player with iggy and my brother and i were close friends and um in los angeles
Guest:Yeah, in Los Angeles.
Guest:And years earlier, James was producing a record, Kill City.
Guest:And he had called my brother and I in.
Guest:Iggy was familiar with us.
Marc:In the haze.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And David, I had met, my brother and I had met David.
Guest:back when he was doing the Ziggy Stardust thing, back when we were working with Todd Rundgren.
Guest:And I remember meeting David at Max's Kansas City and him saying, hey, come down, I'm playing Radio City Music Hall tomorrow.
Guest:And we went and saw him and, you know, you meet someone.
Guest:look when did i see you last 10 years ago and here we are sitting yeah you know what i mean so you you meet people and and though you don't see them all the time you you you see them 10 years later or whatever and it's like it was yesterday yeah you know what i mean so so it's funny how things work and obviously
Guest:um we had something to offer and they knew this was these tours that we did with iggy it'd be like 70 gigs in 82 days you know like relentless and that's europe and america and they knew that we'd show up and do a good job and cut it yeah and that's part of it uh and you were kids well i mean with iggy we were
Guest:what was I, 21?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Okay, so I'm playing 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16.
Guest:I've been playing 14, 15 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, that's, if you're a musician, any musicians out there,
Guest:After 10, 15, 20 years, that's enough time to know that you really need to learn something.
Guest:And either you make the next step and really work on your stuff or forget it.
Guest:Or not forget it, but you should.
Marc:But most of that album was sort of improvised.
Marc:I always wondered at the end of Success, where you guys are in a chorus with him, you didn't know what he was going to say.
Guest:No, it was just ad lib.
Guest:But see, the thing I think that made that record...
Guest:What it is, is prior to recording that record, we had done a world tour or close to a world tour.
Guest:So, you know, you go out on the road.
Guest:With Iggy?
Guest:Yeah, with Iggy, supporting his first record on RCA, which was called The Idiot.
Marc:Right, the idiots.
Marc:So you were playing Sister Midnight, Dumb Dumb Boys.
Marc:Slow groove, though, most of that shit.
Guest:So after touring, doing all that touring, and that's like most musicians or bands, if a band goes out and does a bunch of gigs together, that's really a good time to go in and record, because you're tight.
Guest:And during sound checks, we'd jam on things, or here's an idea, let's do that.
Guest:So it was all that vibe and all that work, those months of touring,
Guest:that came into play when we got ready to do this record what shape was he in during that tour i mean were you was there a constant concern of uh yeah well david was more or less babysitting him so he was on the tour too david was on the on the first tour playing piano yeah and it was leaked out that he was there for ticket sales sure you know add a little bit of more so he was on stage yes he was playing piano and
Guest:So, yeah, David was along, and he was enjoying just being one of the guys, you know what I mean?
Marc:Did you like him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:David is a, I'm looking for the right word for it, but endearing, I don't know.
Marc:Sociable, though?
Marc:I mean, you can hang out and have a conversation.
Guest:Yes, he has that ability when he looks at you, you're the only person in the world.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You're the only one there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and Tin Machine was you.
Guest:Yeah, now Tin Machine,
Guest:A lot about saying about me and you sitting 10 years ago or eight years ago.
Guest:So from 1976, 77, being on the road with David, of course, hanging out, playing together, came into play, what, 30 years later or whatever, with Tin Machine.
Marc:But was it like, you know, are you guys still around kind of call?
Marc:What, with David?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like, because it's a long time.
Marc:I mean, what's the...
Guest:You know, my brother ran into him at a wrap party for the Glass Spider tour out in California.
Guest:I was in Texas at the time producing somebody here working in the studio, but my brother runs into him at a party.
Guest:luck yeah we'll go back to the luck thing or or timing did david say like do you guys still you and your brother he was like hey good to see you and the da da da da and i got this idea and i don't know i think david was fishing to do something he's always done something different you know changed it up yeah which has been great that's a great thing about him and he said you know i got this guitar player i met david said about reeves gabrell and called it call him up call the drummer up
Guest:me so my brother calls me since i ran into david let's get together and jam and i came back to la and we got together in this rehearsal studio and a lot of the first tin machine record the ideas i mean all these ideas started happening and it was fun yeah and i think
Guest:david like anybody at this point doing these stadium tours and uh and all that um you know when you're sitting down and say you're working on material yeah and it's and you you you come up with something really funny yeah well then then you got to work it into the show yeah the act make it a bit and then and you do it a couple dozen to a hundred times whatever and then you work it in front of some people
Guest:And as it goes down the chain of its purest form, you know, before it becomes...
Guest:All the other stuff that comes with it.
Marc:Before the production, before adding instruments.
Guest:So this is getting back to just, why did anyone... How did we get here?
Guest:Why are we here?
Guest:What are we doing here?
Guest:And it was just him playing guitar.
Guest:Almost like with Iggy, where he was the piano player.
Guest:Now, of course, he's David Bowie, and it's a little hard to... But seriously, not running the show, as they say.
Guest:And I think David...
Guest:He knew my brother and I, you know, he knew what we were.
Marc:He just wanted to make a band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He wanted to get back to, you know, I guess his early days and, uh, and, uh, not shouldering all the responsibility.
Guest:I think creatively he may have been a little stunk and looking for something new.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What better way to do it is get some other people and get some input, some feedback.
Guest:Um, because he knew if, you know, like,
Guest:I've got a lot of ideas and some of them are good and some of them suck.
Guest:Same with him.
Guest:But a lot of people, it's like the emperor's new clothes, that story.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:That's beautiful.
Guest:And everyone's bullshitting you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So definitely, um,
Guest:I'm maybe as far as David is a writer and an artist.
Guest:I respect him.
Guest:But I'm working with a legend.
Guest:My father is a legend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so.
Guest:Pound for pound, we got a couple guys here creating and making music.
Guest:And the bullshit barometer was in effect.
Guest:And that sucks, that idea.
Guest:I don't like that.
Marc:Can he take it from you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He had no choice.
Guest:But I mean, you know, you give it out, you get it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And we all shared writing credits and producing credits.
Guest:It was as close as you can get to a band having, well, our lead singer's a billionaire.
Guest:And then David used to tell me, it's really tough at the top hunt, but the food is good.
Marc:The food is good.
Guest:Good for him.
Marc:That song, I like that.
Marc:Those albums are great, man.
Marc:I fucking love that song, amazing.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:The weird thing about Tin Machine is some label guys came down to where we were doing something, and they looked at us, and they were going, I remember someone told me, they said, wow, they sound really great, but they're not the way they're dressed.
Guest:Because we were wearing suits and, you know, casual stuff like, you know.
Guest:And the A&R guys, they had all the leather pants on and all the rock and roll stuff.
Guest:You know, it's like the uniform.
Guest:And we were trying to get away from that.
Guest:We were trying to get, you know, that that wasn't really important.
Guest:The whole, you know, it's a little bit played out.
Guest:It was just about the music.
Guest:And a lot of people...
Guest:Some people liked it.
Guest:Other people went, oh, David, what are you doing?
Guest:This is beneath you.
Guest:But I think the records that we did hold up.
Guest:And I think people like them now better than back then.
Guest:They hold up and they're honest.
Guest:They're not everyone's cup of tea, but we were having fun.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Okay, so when you started playing drums, I mean, your dad is Soupy Sales, who I met on an airplane with my grandmother when I was very young.
Marc:We got on a plane.
Marc:I was with my grandmother.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I must have been five or six.
Marc:And she walked by and recognized him.
Marc:And she goes, that's Soupy Sales.
Guest:I'm like, no, it's not.
Marc:She goes, yes, it is.
Marc:Go up there and get his autograph.
Marc:So my grandmother made me go up into first class and ask your father for his autograph.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you go to him and say, you want an autograph?
Guest:Yeah, Helen.
Marc:He says, you don't look like a Helen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But he was very nice.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:So like when you were growing up, I mean, you were you must you were surrounded by show business.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, he was he was a pretty swinging guy for a while before, you know, before the kids show.
Marc:I mean, he was pretty hip.
Guest:Yeah, he's still my father, though.
Guest:What's it like having supercells for a father?
Guest:Well, I could say, what is it like having Milton Schlockman for a father?
Guest:Or to anyone, it's like you see somebody in their underwear, that's dad.
Guest:And of course, yes, everything that came with it.
Guest:you know the uh being around the showbiz thing and and frank's you know frank sinatra and these people hanging out of course that's not i wouldn't call that normal but uh it is normal in a way when that when you're around that because you're growing up with it how old were you when like i mean like when you start remembering uh that you know or noticing that your father was in show business what when was that
Guest:very young yeah five six i remember nick adams remember nick adams he was an actor uh he had a western show yeah i remember him coming to stay with us and he he it was like a not gun smoke one of these shows and he had his guns there in holster from a western yeah but you know um george lindsey who played goober he'd be over swimming and
Marc:We're in LA where you were in LA.
Guest:We grew up in LA and New York.
Guest:We went back and forth because it's work.
Guest:But I remember my father as a really hard worker and he would go, he'd either be at the studio doing his shows or he'd be up in the room writing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like,
Guest:six days a week really writing bits yeah writing his shows he did everything you know what i mean he wrote it he basically directed okay you do this you do that i mean but sitting there and writing uh writing all the bits and monologues and everything to do so um and then i remember going with him as a kid to these places that sold film clips like where i remember one one sunday going to some
Guest:place in a room and they were showing us all these clips that he would use like a guy eating soup out of a shoe or monkeys playing ukulele you know what i mean and going there and and and him getting buying these these clips or whatever they did to showing us you know using some was it which show was this he had how many shows did he have ultimately well it started in detroit and he had he had a nighttime show
Guest:Why Detroit?
Marc:Is that where he's from?
Guest:No.
Guest:He made the migration to Detroit like a lot of people did from the south.
Guest:You got all your workers at GM and Ford.
Guest:You know, there's a big migration in the 50s because of the car.
Guest:Detroit was a happening place, but because of the motor companies, you know, GM and Ford.
Marc:Where did he grow up?
Marc:Where did he grow up?
Guest:He's from Huntington, West Virginia.
Marc:A Jew from Virginia.
Marc:West Virginia.
Guest:West Virginia.
Guest:Huntington, West Virginia.
Guest:So he moved.
Guest:My mom and him met there, and they moved to Cleveland.
Guest:And he was in radio in Cleveland.
Guest:He was a DJ.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Then from Cleveland, something happened about someone said, we have this show and this kid's show and da-da-da-da.
Guest:and moved to detroit so he went to detroit under the guise of a kid's show yeah it was more than a kid's show right it was it was on it was like um comparable to i guess i'll give you one example uh if you a tv show say king of the hill right
Guest:kids like it right and adults like right because it has different you know different levels yeah so it was that kind of a thing so he did this kids show but it turned into much more and my dad became a huge star in detroit okay so he had a nighttime show and a daytime show it was sponsored by a car company
Guest:Probably Jell-O.
Guest:So he was doing these shows working all the time.
Guest:I just remember him working all the time.
Guest:And then, you know, you get as big as you're going to get in Detroit.
Guest:The next move is, let's take it.
Marc:New York.
Guest:Yeah, to New York or L.A.
Guest:We went to L.A.
Guest:and was that where did the where did the problem happen in new york so we went to la and he signed a deal with with abc tv right and after a season or so it went off yeah okay somebody screwed something up so he was in la and i remember things were rough you know what i mean it's hard to be a king without a throne you know when you're um so then we ended up
Guest:going to New York so we went to New York and he did a show again there the same format okay children's a highbrow church and he'd have people on different people uh different acts Jerry Lee Lewis and the Isley brother you know and have a musical guest but basically the same did you go to the studio yeah it was right around the block from where we lived uh Metro Media so he does his show in New York and he is
Guest:Outside of the Beatles and a few people, he was in that stratosphere.
Guest:So we were in New York, and the show is doing phenomenal in New York.
Guest:And then he did one routine.
Guest:It was after New Year's, then a New Year's Day.
Guest:And he said, all you kids out there, you see these green pieces of paper with presidents on it?
Guest:Put those in an envelope, send it to me, and I'll send you a postcard from Puerto Rico.
Guest:It's a joke.
Marc:Right, joke.
Guest:I think, you know, somebody sent $100,000 in Monopoly money.
Guest:But a lot of people called up, how dare you?
Guest:And the people at the station, they went crazy.
Guest:Like, you can't do this.
Guest:It just shows you how times have changed.
Guest:And he got pissed off with their lack of support of him as an artist.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:um because it was a joke clearly a joke yeah he didn't say here's the address and i mean it's a joke but some people have no sense of humor as we know and they thought he was shaking down the kids or i don't they're just some weird you know what i mean uh so that show i remember
Marc:It was controversy, though.
Marc:He had a fight for his show.
Guest:Right or wrong, after that show and the success of it, I think he walked away from that.
Guest:He got to a point and he'd been doing it long enough and walked away and wanted to do some other things with his career.
Marc:They didn't take him off the air.
Marc:He just said, fuck it.
Guest:he just he didn't renew his contract and i think he set his sights to do movies and tv which didn't necessarily go that well he did a movie called birds do it it's one of the worst movies i've ever seen um but uh nevertheless he did that movie and he was a lounge jack too right i mean he's a comedian yeah he'd
Guest:he worked, he worked and he, and he, and he started doing all those shows.
Guest:What's my line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a million dollar thing and all that, you know, um, a Dick Clark production.
Guest:And he did all those shows.
Guest:He worked, you know, and he did, um, like, what do you call it?
Guest:Like summer stock plays and stuff.
Guest:And he had hells of poppin up in Canada.
Guest:We went up there and he did hells of poppin, um, which is an old, old play.
Guest:So he worked, but he didn't have that show.
Guest:And then years later, uh,
Guest:he did the super sale show again back in California.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh, and then he did radio for, um, in New York for, uh, NBC, I think it was or whatever, you know, um, had a radio show on for a while out of New York and he worked, you know, uh, either doing a standup act and, uh, but he was never really what you'd call, uh, that jive Las Vegas thing, you know, never made it to the Vegas or that bit.
Guest:And,
Guest:we had a good rhythm you know he almost had like a jazz rhythm yeah he's kind of groovy yeah and he's an original hipster yeah you know what I mean and I think mismanagement in his career you know it didn't help did you grow up was there a strain in that because like I mean that's real show business life it's like you know you got a guy who you know he's a big star and then things go you know south a little bit and then you kind of chasing it yeah my family split up my dad and mom uh split up when I was 12 13 because of the show business
Guest:no just uh because uh that's what people do you know what i mean and um i don't know i i just you know show business was everything to him yeah you know what i mean his career was everything yeah and i've learned a lot from that you know what i mean yeah if you ask me who i am i'll tell you i'm my kid's father yeah you ask me what i do i play music and i try not to get them i would like to be
Guest:a better human being myself.
Guest:I'd like to do better tomorrow than today.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:If today wasn't good enough and I'll look at my stuff, but put it in some kind of perspective because I've seen too much where, you know, I don't know how all that stuff keeps you warm at night, the eight by tens and the awards, but Jesus, I saw a lot and it taught me on what not to do as far as a father and I'm a parent.
Marc:Like what?
Guest:Well, to be there for my kids, you know what I mean?
Guest:And my father, like any and everyone else, did the best he could.
Guest:I don't think he had much of an example as far as how to be a father.
Guest:I think he didn't have a father, you know what I mean?
Guest:Several fathers had died or whatever.
Guest:His mom raised him.
Guest:So I can understand that.
Guest:But...
Guest:you know i i luckily i was able to see my parents for the most part as people and yeah they were my parents but they're still people human beings with all the flaws yeah yeah and and things and uh yeah him leaving and um where'd you grow up who'd you grow up with your mom my mom my mom took care of us in la uh new york and la yeah and then i left home i wasn't living
Guest:by 15 i was on the road living in hotels how'd you start how'd you start playing drums i mean was that you know what did you like was there uh what got you turned on to that i mean well i went i went to some recording sessions back when i was six seven my dad would do these records yeah like part comedy part singing yeah and i went to a session and there was this drummer earl palmer yeah fantastic dry plays on the little richard a lot of little richard that's domino new orleans guy
Guest:and he was playing on the record and i you know of all the stuff i've seen the the musicians the show business people yeah i kind of you know the show business comedy yeah i probably you know have a little bit of that in me but the music is the stuff that that i was turned on to that turned me on the musicians and and that stuff so seeing him at that session it was like wow i want to play the drum you know and then a
Guest:Family friend of our Shelly man great jazz drummer session He was a friend of the family and and that influenced me and he kind of became my mentor As he as young and he gave me my first hiat symbols Yeah, and I think my parents bought me a snare drum So for the first year or so I that's all I had it wasn't I want to play drums and they go buy me every no I was raised the way my father was raised Which is good in a way it helped me in life, you know, which means what I?
Guest:Which I wasn't given it.
Guest:I wasn't spoiled or given.
Guest:I bought my own first car.
Guest:A lot of things.
Guest:Maybe underrated.
Guest:But nevertheless, I've worked for whatever I have.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And my father wasn't around a lot of the times.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So that's my experience.
Guest:As opposed to other people I knew where they'd get...
Guest:cars the kid up the block his dad's a dentist he'd get the Trans Am meanwhile I'm walking to school it was a little disproportionate or whatever the word is but you know getting back to doing the best he could but it was a little strange you know what I mean in that but whatever I definitely don't have any entitlement issues you know what I mean I wouldn't mind one but I don't and it taught me a lot
Marc:it taught me about getting things myself and working for a work ethic and stuff you know what i mean but when that dude man what's his first name shelly shelly man yeah so you're like seven years old right and you got he gave you a high hat yeah so like when he sat you down and when he spent time with him once you got your snare drum so was he the guy that like taught you how to swing
Guest:Just, you know, by association, you're around people and you pick things up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You see them play.
Guest:You go to a session and it rubs off and you see this.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But I just was, you know, all about music, my brother and I. And that's all I cared about.
Guest:And, you know, when you're young, you're 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12...
Guest:what are kids into well some kids get get strange and get into all kinds of bad stuff and other kids get into basketball and kids you know what i mean yeah music yeah as you remember back then rock and roll was new yeah and it was exciting and it was just beginning and it was it was a new it was a new idiom or whatever you want to call it and that's really rhythm and blues and
Guest:And all that stuff, I was really into soul music and rock and roll.
Guest:And that's all I wanted to do was play music.
Guest:And I'd seen musicians.
Guest:I'd been around musicians.
Guest:And it looked good to me.
Guest:I kind of got into it for all the wrong reasons.
Guest:I didn't get into it as a career.
Guest:And I didn't think about the money and all that.
Guest:That came later on getting skills and training and stuff.
Guest:But I got into it for the love of it.
Guest:Some people will say, I got into it to meet chicks.
Guest:you know what does it really matter why someone got into it it's what what what do you do with it how could how did your brother decide on bass or did you both start at the same time yes and you were just sort of like you're gonna play that i'm gonna play this and he started on guitar yeah and ended up on bass yeah you know he plays guitar also both but uh he he really got into the bass you know what i mean and uh
Guest:And ended up working a lot with this great bass player out of L.A.
Guest:called Carol Kay.
Guest:Session bass player.
Guest:She played on the Phil Spector stuff and thousands of other motels.
Marc:So did you meet these people just by virtue of your dad would do a session, you kind of hang around, get to know them?
Guest:That was a little bit.
Marc:But you must have been like, there's those sales kids hanging around.
Guest:yeah but you know um living in la i start the drums i get i start taking drum lessons at seven which was good and i learned all the you know the beginning rudiments and all that stuff and then we moved to new york yeah and in new york there used to be a street it's still there but it's not the same 48th street manny's music 20 stive is in
Guest:There used to be 20, 30 music stores.
Guest:Sam Ash.
Guest:Yeah, it was really exciting back then.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And there was a, what was it?
Guest:Cozy Cole something drum school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, real old school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I started with this teacher, this old guy.
Guest:He was from the big band days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And William Kessler, I think his name.
Guest:And he taught me a lot, ear training and stuff.
Guest:He was, you know, with the cigarette holder.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:smoking cigar up with his hair greased back he was a character yeah he must have been 60 70 years old but i started studying with him and here i am on 48th street hanging out i'd hang out and i'd see west montgomery i'd see the bands that came over from england yeah you know what i mean and all i just it was really exciting after school i'd go down to 48th street either take a lesson or just go hang out
Marc:At the store.
Guest:Yeah, at Manny's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I met everyone and saw everybody.
Guest:So I just, you know, like if there's anybody.
Marc:Did they know you at the store?
Guest:Yeah, the owners did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But I'd say to anybody that wants to do anything, if you want to be a comedian or you want to be a plumber, immerse yourself around your people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The people you want, you know, what you want to be, immerse yourself in it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And some of it may rub off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're going to have to do the work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But a little bit will rub off and it helps.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:so when when you started like gigging at what 14 yeah i'm gigging at 13 and i can't i don't have a cabaret card but um i'm playing parties you know what i mean around new york we're playing parties and then we put this band together you and your brother yeah called tony and the tigers and because of my dad we got some deal with roulette records yeah more sleevy
Guest:uh on this label you see morris levy's name on a lot of songs as writer which he didn't write but so frankie lyman and and you know it's famous his the stories about him but we're recording recording at bell sound which is a famous studio and a fur roulette and doing our best at 13 you know what do you you know 12 years old you
Guest:And we ended up doing Hullabaloo.
Guest:That's a TV show.
Guest:You can get these videos now at video places.
Guest:They're out.
Guest:Hullabaloo with my dad.
Guest:You know, let's get Soupy on with his kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:So we're in 16 Magazine, which was a teeny bopper magazine.
Guest:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:The Raiders and Herman's Hermits.
Guest:You backed them?
Guest:What?
Marc:Did you back them?
Guest:No, but we do these TV shows and stuff.
Marc:So you were almost a novelty act.
Guest:Well, we were a little, yeah, we were young.
Guest:Aren't they cute?
Guest:And we were doing Bob Dylan songs and whatever.
Guest:We didn't know what we were doing, but we're trying.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I remember we did Atlantic City, the Steel Pier in Atlantic City with my dad.
Guest:And it was a Labor Day or some weekend.
Guest:And it was us.
Guest:My dad was headlining.
Guest:the animals eric burden the animals george shearing and then some juggling acts and i remember we're in this dressing room yeah and right we shared a dressing room with the diving horse there's a horse that dives off of this thing and it smelled you can imagine and i looked at my brother and said this is show business yeah
Guest:you know what and get out of showbiz but um i remember the animals they were awesome you know what i mean seeing real like some real stuff and then playing but i saw them arguing and you know and beating each other up yeah it was like their last gig and they were contractually splitting up and then eric bird oh the actual animals here i'm still thinking like you saw horses arguing well both you know both of them but uh we do these shows and we do record hops
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Out in New Jersey and Brooklyn and Queens, we'd go out with 20 or 30 other acts and go out.
Guest:And that was really an introduction to showbiz because we'd go in on stage with our equipment and there'd be a guy with a record player going and putting their and you'd lip sync to an audience.
Marc:Yeah, I heard about this.
Guest:And I thought that was the weirdest.
Guest:I'm standing there like mimicking playing drums in front of an audience to a track.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, now it's people do that on TV.
Guest:They don't, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But like there was there was actual acts.
Marc:I think Martin and Lewis were like a lip syncing act because I talked to Dick Van Dyke.
Marc:He was in a team.
Marc:That was the whole shtick.
Marc:They'd go up there and do lip syncing.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, here's our new record that's out on Roulette.
Guest:Oh, I see.
Marc:It was your record.
Guest:Yeah, and we'd get up and play to it, rather than we could have just played live.
Guest:All of these bands could have, but it was weird back then.
Guest:You'll see movies about the 50s and 60s, but really, they'd have all the acts that had records out, and they'd do these record hops or whatever, with 20, 30, the Jive 5...
Guest:That's all these.
Marc:They were afraid of amplification or they're afraid of organization.
Guest:What they can, I guess the production, you know, that way they didn't have to worry about PAs and this, it was like a crummy record player.
Guest:And I'll tell you the, the, the, you could hear the static, the top 10 things or whatever record, you know, back in the, that day when we got into the business, they were releasing,
Guest:tons of records every week 50 records a week right and maybe one of them stuck they throw on the wall all of it sticks now they do 20 records a year a label will right so um the grill building was still going back then so the writers were all at the grill building churning out r&b hits and teeny bopper hits and that kind of not that type that does not exist anymore the business i got into as a kid
Guest:Yeah, there's still records, of course.
Guest:There's still studios, of course.
Guest:But it's a different world.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's not the same.
Guest:And it was exciting, you know, being in the middle of it.
Marc:It was more of a community.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Like, you know, you know all the cats.
Marc:Did you actually go to the Brill Building at all?
Guest:I remember getting some acetate, some demos.
Guest:I remember a couple of the guys, we did a TV show with the Hollies.
Guest:oh yeah and uh and uh they were really nice and i remember them giving us some acetates of some demo songwriting yeah that they had and uh just a few other people but um yeah back then a feeling anything was possible and and uh just you know all the record labels and uh
Guest:album it was the singles people put out 45s yeah and if you got a big 45 then you put another one and after so many 45s then came the album right and then towards the late 60s singles were you still had a single but albums you know we'd get the album smoke some weed and listen to the concept yeah look at the pictures yeah
Guest:You know, that whole bit.
Guest:The Beatles are responsible for that and a bunch of other acts of changing.
Guest:And they were songwriters.
Guest:And then everyone would have to write.
Guest:Dylan, a lot of people came out that wrote and performed.
Guest:But prior to that, you'd have songwriter and you'd have your performer.
Guest:Sometimes...
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:But not usually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you end up, like, if you remember that whole change of the business, did you start playing with, did you meet those guys?
Marc:I mean, were they around, like, you know, Dylan and those people?
Guest:I remember I went down to this blues down at the...
Guest:Cafe Ogogo, I think it was, down the village.
Marc:It's wild that you grew up in the city because it must have been fucking amazing.
Guest:It was happening.
Guest:And I remember there was a blues show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And all these blues guys, these guys that, you know, John Lee Hooker and...
Guest:what's his name and did bright lights big city jimmy reed jimmy reed i mean they had everybody on this show but this is back in 65 i mean you know they were still alive but it was this big blue show so i go now i'm down there at this blue show my mom and a friend of hers and we're hanging out and i look over and bob dylan is standing there
Guest:And I went, man, I'm going to go up to him and say hello.
Guest:And I remember going up and saying something to him.
Guest:And I don't know if it freaked him out.
Guest:I remember him running out of the... Really?
Guest:Yeah, he didn't want to be messed with.
Guest:Years later, I worked with him.
Guest:He's a really super nice guy.
Guest:A really cool guy.
Marc:What did you work with him on?
Guest:Yeah, I worked with him on a video with Dave Stewart from the Arrhythmics.
Guest:I don't know how he got involved, but I don't know if he had produced the record or just he was directing the video.
Guest:And they called me up, do you want to be in this?
Guest:And me and a bunch of other people did this video with Dylan.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was years ago.
Guest:But...
Marc:I don't know where we got started, but... Just in terms of the transition from singles to records and how that affected your playing.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I had quite a learning curve and an experience curve from 12 to 15.
Guest:I went through a lot.
Guest:The breakup of my family, the moving from L.A.
Guest:to New York and back again.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:How'd that affect you, though, emotionally?
Marc:Did it fuck you up?
Guest:Ask my psychiatrist.
Guest:No, I'm just kidding.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm sure it had some effect on me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't know the normal thing.
Guest:I see people and their father was around and helpful and this and that and go, wow, but that's not my experience.
Guest:My experience is I'm my own father.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I raised myself.
Guest:Do you think you did a good job?
Guest:you know what ask my kids yeah you know yeah i've got a great really i have two i have two girls i've got one that's 22 um just got out of college art school yeah in los angeles and i have a five-year-old yeah so uh both of them i think they like me oh that's good i've you know you'd have to ask them how you get along with your brother
Guest:okay yeah you know uh you know how brothers are i do you know what i mean it's good and bad and bad and good and good and bad and you know yeah i love him to death but you know it's hard family is you know what i mean how family is it's rough yeah and what now what was the first tour you guys went on if you started working when you were 15 it was the bob welsh it was paris no it was with todd rundgren i met i was there was a club in new york called steve paul scene yeah
Guest:And Steve Paul would later go on to manage Johnny Winter and Edgar Winter.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And he had a club, and it was on the west side, and it was one of these clubs subterranean in the basement.
Marc:Those are the best.
Guest:Yeah, it was awesome.
Guest:And you'd go down there.
Guest:Low ceilings.
Guest:Janis Joplin would be there, Stevie Winwood.
Guest:You saw Janis Joplin?
Guest:She used to live down the hall from me at the Chelsea Hotel.
Guest:But all these people would be there.
Guest:And I remember...
Guest:Being there one night, and for some reason I ended up with Jimi Hendrix sitting with him and we're talking.
Guest:Because Jimi Hendrix, he played a show with my dad a few years earlier.
Marc:The Isley Brothers?
Guest:No, with Little Richard.
Guest:He was playing in Little Richard's band.
Guest:And Little Richard was on the show with my dad.
Guest:That's where I first saw him.
Guest:But I'm sitting talking to him.
Guest:I saw you on that show with Little Richard.
Guest:And he...
Guest:really nice guy yeah i was down there he said hey you want to come down the studio and i struck up a friendship with him you know what i mean with hendrix yeah with hendrix and i'd run into him different places you know i saw him a couple times here and there playing what playing definitely playing but i'm just saying seeing him at manny's you know uh picking out guitars and sit down and bullshit with him or at the scene i sat at the scene and then he said come down the studio come down at five yeah i said five in the afternoon you know five in the morning i want
Guest:okay mom i'm going down to see jimmy when at five in the morning okay i remember going down there at five in the morning down and he was working on the second record he was a super nice guy yeah super nice guy uh sweet guy so you're like 14 or something yeah 14. and you go down to see hendrix yeah down at the record plant he was down there recording and uh remember what he was recording yeah
Guest:Yeah, he was recording A Long Hot Summer Night.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But I go down there, I'm hanging out.
Guest:So I'm down at the scene hanging out, and somebody introduces me to Todd Rundgren.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Todd Rundgren was just getting his solo thing together.
Guest:So my brother, he came down, and we ended up jamming at the scene with Todd, and something clicked.
Guest:We had some...
Guest:And we spoke to Todd and like, man, he said, I'm doing this record.
Guest:I got a deal.
Guest:The NAS.
Guest:I left the NAS.
Guest:And I got my song.
Guest:I went good.
Guest:I said, we're moving back to California.
Guest:We were getting ready to move back to California.
Marc:With your mom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mom.
Guest:My dad was gone.
Guest:And we moved back.
Guest:We had a house out in L.A.
Guest:that had been rented out.
Guest:And it was available.
Guest:And we went back to live there.
Guest:So Todd came out to L.A.
Guest:He stayed at our house.
Guest:And we put together the Run album with Todd and worked on that.
Guest:So it's funny being at the right place at the right time.
Marc:He's pretty meticulous, though, right, as a producer?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm a smart guy and really talented, sometimes too smart for your own good, you know what I mean?
Guest:But very talented as a young, you know, how old was he then, 21 maybe, 22?
Guest:I was 15.
Guest:What year was that that was 69 Wow 68 69 what a talented guy man great guitar player great writer I mean great producer knowing about all the technical stuff and and
Guest:you know yeah he had his together so um you know we started working with him and the learning curve between 12 i'm doing hullabaloo doing trying to do dylan songs by 15 i got a top five record i'm on you know what i mean and my skills have progressed i've been studying now yeah i've been hanging out yeah sucking it all up jamming with people you know what i mean it was quite a curve in those few years it wouldn't be till a few years later
Guest:That I was introduced to this guy, this drummer who's a teacher.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it changed my world, you know, because I sat down and basically he showed me where I was, where I was at.
Marc:Was he a guy in L.A.?
Guest:Yeah, my skills, which I didn't, I had talent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I believe if you're a comedian, you're a drummer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it's a god-given talent yeah it really is now what are you going to do with it yeah are you going to work on it yeah and hone it and and perfect it and at that i i'd already been on a hit record i played but i really looked at myself and went my shit wasn't together so i started studying i'm about 17 and i stopped playing rock and roll i played a lot of jazz like jimmy smith organ trio yeah i'd go to the ghetto in la and hang out compton yeah
Guest:and jam there was clubs you could jam and i studied yeah and i remember i i wasn't in school i go at school so i for a couple years i sat in a room and worked 10 hours a day on my stuff uh studying out of books and and training and really honed some of my shit together you know what i mean that serves me today yeah you know when i go into cut a track in the studio or do anything right yeah yeah so when did you live at the chelsea hotel
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:When did you live at the Chelsea Hotel?
Guest:I lived in 69.
Guest:We were in L.A.
Guest:We did the record with Todd.
Guest:Then he moves to New York.
Guest:He's in L.A.
Guest:for a while, but he goes back to New York.
Guest:Then he calls us.
Guest:We're going to do a tour on the thing.
Guest:Come to New York.
Guest:So we go, you know, school was out.
Guest:I think, you know, school was out.
Guest:And, okay, we're going to leave.
Guest:And when I left to go to New York, I knew in my head I ain't going back to school.
Guest:Forget that.
Guest:You know, I just have to convince everyone else.
Guest:So we went to New York and tried to put this tour together.
Guest:We did a couple dates.
Guest:And either this or that or something managed to screw things up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And ended up.
Guest:you know, being a bust.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After several months there, I hung out in New York for a while.
Marc:And you were at the Chelsea?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Living at the Chelsea.
Marc:What was that like then?
Guest:We go to the Chelsea and my brother and I are in this room and the room was a real shithole and there's like blood in the drawer and the door would open like being locked.
Guest:But, you know, I had a bunch of planet and Todd shows up and I go, this fucking hotel.
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:Dylan Thomas, who the fuck?
Guest:He said, you know, 80% of the hotels in Europe are like this.
Guest:I went, we're not in Europe, motherfucker.
Guest:Welcome to showbiz.
Marc:Who was living there, though?
Marc:Janice was living there?
Guest:Yeah, she was living down the hall.
Guest:I remember seeing her a couple times.
Marc:Was it towards the end?
Marc:Who the hell knows?
Guest:It was a couple years before she died, a year or two.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And I remember seeing her, and she was like, you know, I was 15, and I had my little groove going, you know.
Guest:hey, honey, with her bit.
Guest:And I just remember her being kind of creepy.
Guest:You know, just like a drunk, you know?
Guest:But I remember I was at some club one night, and I called her.
Guest:I'm going to call her up and see what she's up to.
Guest:I think she was out of it sleeping or whatever.
Guest:I woke her up.
Guest:But yeah, she lived down the hall from me.
Guest:Did you sleep with her at 15?
Guest:No.
Guest:Luckily, no.
Guest:But there were other women.
Guest:I was going out with 26-year-olds, you know, chicks way older than me.
Guest:That was fun.
Marc:And in 69, that was the first time Iggy played New York, and then the punk, not the punk, but the pre-punk, the Velvet Underground and shit was all starting.
Guest:Yeah, that's way before, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and were you tapping into that at all, or did you see it?
Guest:No, I was, look, I was into going to the Apollo Theater.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I was into Bobby Bird and James Brown.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, that's, I was into Count Basie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was into Duke Ellington.
Guest:I was into Sonny Stitch, Charlie Parker.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, West Montgomery.
Guest:That was where you were at.
Guest:A garage punk.
Guest:I'm a,
Guest:I mean, it's not beneath, below, above, or anything.
Guest:I think primitive is where it's at as far as certain music.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:To me.
Guest:But I aspired to people that I saw like Duke Ellington and Buddy Rich.
Marc:and these people buddy rich amazing right yes i just talked to mel brooks you know that buddy rich taught mel brooks how to play drums on coney island yeah when mel brooks was a kid is that hilarious yeah yeah he must have been amazing to see he was i got to hang out with him you know nice guy yes very nice you know i had a couple of guys that worked with buddy rich yeah and they went
Guest:He was an asshole and this and that.
Guest:These are horn players.
Guest:I had this horn band.
Guest:So I'm doing a gig one night, and I look over, and the horn player is sitting on the side of the stage, and we're in the middle of this whole number.
Guest:So I play a solo, and the guy's... So I walk over to this horn player, and I go, what are you doing?
Guest:He said, I can't hear myself on the monitor.
Guest:I said, fuck you.
Guest:Get on the stage.
Guest:I can't hear anything.
Guest:And after the show, I said...
Guest:you know buddy rich is right you're a jerk and that's why buddy rich had to toe the line because his name was up there and he had all this young horn player punks yeah that didn't you know yeah come on buddy was doing it since he was two years old you know two three years old on stage and some young punk that gets out of college a horn player as good as they may be they haven't paid the dues they haven't earned anything which is fine but don't have an attitude like that yeah yeah a lot of people
Guest:Entitlement.
Guest:A lot of people have an attitude, and when you're with someone who's paid a lot of dues, you're bound to have they set a precedent, and anyone that fucks with that, well, you know, they're going to be hard to get along with, but one-on-one Buddy Rich, I never saw anything that was, you know, he could be an asshole, but...
Marc:Who can't?
Guest:Yeah, you got a 20-piece band, 18-piece band with a bunch of young kids that think they know everything.
Marc:Yeah, it's hard.
Marc:So in terms of playing the rock and roll and getting a... I mean, you got pretty beat up over time, didn't you?
Guest:Yeah, physically.
Guest:Yes, literally.
Guest:I got really messed up in New York.
Guest:Ended this one tour with Todd and some street gang got a hold of me.
Guest:Over what?
Guest:oh you faggot or whatever they said to me and I went fuck you you know I was wearing pink velvet pants you know and they came up and hit me with a broom handle I remember going up to some cops and they were like laughing hey that's really Attica I took myself to the hospital and I remember them shaving my head and giving me stitches and welcome to New York you know yeah well when did the rock and roll lifestyle kick in oh
Guest:God The rock and roll lifestyle.
Guest:Well, I mean when do you like I mean I don't know how public you are about your struggles with with with drugs and whatnot um I swore I would never and I saw a lot of people like really go down and I swore I would never get into that and you know good for that Don't work that way You know I guess
Guest:Drugs, you know, we're maybe close to the same age.
Marc:I'm 49.
Guest:I'm a little bit older than you.
Guest:But close enough.
Guest:You know, think about this.
Guest:Or don't think about it.
Guest:But in the 60s, they go, cocaine is good.
Guest:You can do it recreational.
Guest:Doctors would say this.
Guest:little do we know how destructive and evil it is you know what i mean um and weed and all that you know back then drug culture we can't you know it was everywhere yeah it was everywhere and then you know shoot to now
Guest:where basically it's marketed and there's more drugs now than ever and they're cheaper and they're stronger.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So I got into drinking.
Guest:I swore I'd never do that.
Guest:And when I was really young, I didn't drink.
Guest:When I was about 16, 17, hanging out at bars and hanging out with different people, I started drinking.
Guest:And I didn't think anything of it until I looked at later, who sits down and drinks a fifth?
Guest:So I knew I might have a problem when the bartender says, are you still walking?
Guest:And then all the other stuff came in, all the other drugs.
Marc:What was your thing?
Guest:You name it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:What was the thing that caused the biggest trouble?
Guest:I'd say when I got to the hard stuff.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Dope.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:When I became a heroin addict.
Guest:And that's something for years, no matter where I was, it was available and around.
Guest:And it's something that I struggled with and have struggled with.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's a tough one, right?
Guest:It really is.
Guest:You got cigarettes and you got dope.
Guest:I don't know which one is harder to kick.
Guest:And really, I'm under the impression that
Guest:I think everything should be legalized and maybe go to a doctor or go to a clinic or whatever, but you're not going to stamp it out by what they're doing.
Guest:And I think more education is needed to know, you know, so people figure this out rather than locking.
Guest:See, in other countries.
Guest:they about uh dope and stuff they look at it as a as more like a mental health problem yeah rather than a war on drugs because it is basically people are fixing themselves with whatever drug works you know self-medicating yeah yeah okay i mean it wasn't the same years ago the drugs they have now for
Guest:if you have bipolar or whatever you have yeah yeah a lot of people are on um whatever you call them you know yeah antidepressants antidepressants and stuff and you sit down one day and you go wow i've been trying to feel normal by doing you know by snorting coke or smoking coke or shooting dope or drinking booze or taking pills sure sure all of that and then there's also just the nature of addiction in itself you know yes that hunger
Guest:yes and also filling the hole yeah and then uh you know you see people that have a drink and then you see people that really have a drink you know what i mean and booze with the ads on tv it's really accepted oh look at him that's funny he's falling down he's throwing up and you know what i mean but you see somebody with a
Guest:with a rock pipe and then people move.
Guest:We're moving away from here.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it's all the same shit.
Guest:It's, you know, some of it's, you know, is the express elevator to hell immediately, you know, but...
Guest:You can't say one thing, from my experience, is worse than anything else.
Marc:A drug is a drug.
Marc:I remember seeing you at a place, at a thing before I actually met you.
Marc:It was probably, you know, 90, no, probably 2002.
Marc:I saw you out in L.A., and you looked hard, man.
Marc:I mean, you're pretty open.
Marc:You seem pretty jovial and grounded and shit.
Marc:But I saw you, and it was like you were scary, dude.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:I look at pictures of me and I scare myself.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:And what do you think's changed?
Guest:I'm not hitting the pipe every day.
Guest:That, for one, would help.
Guest:Let's start with that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I'm not going to sit here and say, you shouldn't do this, you should do this, and you're...
Guest:uh-uh yeah everyone's got to do what they got to do and god bless everyone and the fact that i can sit here and talk to you yeah and i'm you know of my at least i know it of my right mind and i'm not saying hold on let me go into the bathroom you know i'm really you know and you got the kid that must have done something
Guest:Uh, yeah, I had to do something.
Guest:I've had to do something about me because being a, doing drugs and all that drink is a self, selfish, self-centered thing.
Guest:And you don't care about any, you're not going to, if it's like, if someone says, well, he'll stop because of the kids.
Guest:No, leave now.
Guest:He's going to stop or she's going to stop when they're ready to stop.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You can't do it for, you got to do things in this life for yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It'd be nice to keep other people in mind and be considerate of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when did that stop anybody from, you know... Fucking up their life.
Guest:Yeah, four in the morning.
Guest:I got to see someone about a dog.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, it is what it is.
Guest:And some people... A friend of mine was saying it's like, you know, people...
Guest:They grow up.
Guest:And I went, okay, I could buy that a little bit.
Guest:You know, grow out of it.
Guest:They grow up.
Guest:Well, they get mature and they start thinking about other people and not being so selfish and self-centered.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But I want to tell William Burroughs or the... I was around a lot of people...
Guest:jazz guys and stuff that did drugs yeah and they went out and toured and worked and you know they did their little thing in the morning or whatever yeah you know um whatever gets them through the day yeah but there's a judge i'm sure that wakes up and does this little thing and then goes and does all day there's a lot of people i've met like that through my life that um you know functioning yeah as it would say so i don't know it's acceptable
Guest:For someone down at the bar right now from where we are having three or four martinis.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's different?
Guest:Because the other stuff is illegal and you are then a criminal by doing it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And because it's illegal, you can get into a lot more trouble just acquiring it.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know, doing what's necessary to get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's nothing illegal about drinking in the glass you're driving.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Or doing that stuff.
Guest:God knows there's... I don't want to think about it, but if you do, there's people out there driving.
Guest:So the main thing to me is, you know, without sounding too cornball or I don't know, is...
Guest:have i been have i i've been okay with everybody who i've come in contact with today have i been cool with myself yeah have i been cool with others have i tried to you know if i could do something could i you know what i mean i don't be mother tracer don't get me wrong yeah but i mean did i watch myself today did i do my check up from the neck up and see how i'm how i'm living how i'm affecting others around me yeah
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And being aware of that.
Guest:And how are my kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did anyone tell you they loved you today?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Me?
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:But I mean, did anyone?
Guest:No.
Marc:I like you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you've been okay with me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you know, that kind of a thing.
Marc:Sure, man.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:Trying to be aware of me and what my effect is just as a person.
Guest:when I go hang out with someone or spend time with someone and have I been loving and giving and all that stuff you know what I mean you think about it yeah absolutely yeah not to get sickening about it and on some crucifix fuck that no no you're just trying to be a better person that's all exactly and I'll get I may like all of us we may not get what we want but we'll get what we need and I don't need to be like if only desperate and needy we're attractive yes no kidding I've been saying that for years you know what I mean yeah
Marc:So what do you got going?
Marc:Are you working on a record?
Guest:I've got my own record I've finished.
Guest:And if you go on Reverb Nation, which is a site, there's a couple songs up there.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And it's called the Hunt Sales Memorial.
Guest:That's the name of my band.
Marc:Dude, when I was looking for you when I got here, and some guy tweeted at me, said, you know, here's the thing.
Marc:It looks like he's playing.
Marc:And I saw Hunt Sales Memorial.
Marc:I'm saying, oh, fuck, he's dead.
Marc:God damn it.
Guest:Here's how I got the name for this.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Buddy Miles.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Someone that I admired when I was very young.
Marc:Great drummer.
Guest:And later on, great, great talent.
Guest:And he was living out here in Austin prior to his death.
Guest:And I'd go visit him because I'd known him from back in the day.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Back the Jimmy days and all that Bainship season, Buddy Miles Express.
Marc:Were you at that Fillmore show?
Guest:yeah yeah and buddy wasn't doing very good financially and health wise you know it looked like he was on his way out and i'd go by and see him and so nobody you know was around it not many people were around you know everyone loves a winner you know yeah um and then he dies and then there's the buddy miles memorial yeah i go to it
Guest:to pay my respects but jesus it was like a circus and all these older guys with white tennis shoes and leather pants you know the look you see them at the trade shows yeah you know what i mean and everyone's up there performing and it's packed and i'm going where were all these motherfuckers before he died yeah anybody to you know yeah
Guest:So let's do a memorial.
Guest:Obviously, something's working here.
Guest:If you call it a memorial, then everyone shows up.
Guest:So that's, you know what I mean?
Guest:So that's why I call the non-sales memorial.
Guest:We're going to have a memorial while we're living.
Guest:Good, man.
Guest:Rather than waiting.
Marc:Well, I'm telling you, man, it's great to see you.
Marc:And it's great to see you so focused and fucking open.
Marc:And I appreciate you talking to me, man.
Guest:Yeah, I'm more than, thank you.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely, man.
Marc:That's our show, folks.
Marc:I hope you dug it.
Marc:Music-based.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:We're remaking those MTV shirts.
Marc:I guess I shouldn't call them that.
Marc:The WTF shirts that are a riff on a logo that you might recognize.
Marc:Check the schedule.
Marc:Check the calendar.
Marc:I'm going to be at the Rochester Fringe Festival.
Marc:I'm going to be up at Just for Laughs 42 in Toronto.
Marc:We've got the LA Podcast, LA PodFest.
Marc:Trying to get that booked with some exciting people.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:I just shit my pants.
Marc:Look out.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:That was an old school plug in the style that I invented.
Marc:Am I tooting my own horn?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:Leave a comment.
Marc:Check the episode guide.
Marc:Get that app, folks.
Marc:The most recent 50 episodes are always available for free.
Marc:That means every episode is available for free for six months.
Marc:You want the other 400 and change, get the free app, upgrade to the premium app.
Marc:You can stream all 412, 13, whatever they are, episodes of WTF.
Marc:I'm going to go now.
Marc:I've enjoyed talking to you.
Marc:I'm gonna meditate on my one-eyed deaf black cat and will him back to me so I can get him some help.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Boomer lives!