Episode 421 - Kathryn Hahn and Jill Soloway
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucking nicks?
Marc:What the fuck is sugar knows?
Marc:That's a good one.
Marc:What the fuck is sugar knows?
Marc:Little Yiddish air mixed in right there.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Thank you for being here.
Marc:What the fuck is sugar knows was given to me by a woman wearing earbuds.
Marc:I was also on the phone, and she was wearing earbuds, and she saw me, and she goes, I'm listening to you right now, and she suggested.
Marc:I was outside of Amoeba Records about to medicate my anxiety and anger with some record purchases.
Marc:Today, I have a special show in the sense that, look, I rarely do sort of plug-oriented shows, and I
Marc:It was just one of those situations.
Marc:You know, Jill Soloway has been on the show before.
Marc:Catherine Hahn, the comedic actress from My Idiot Brother, Wanderlust.
Marc:She had a little part in Anchorman.
Marc:She's in this film that Jill Soloway just made called Afternoon Delight that should be open now at a small theater near you.
Marc:And Jill asked me if I would have Catherine on to do to do the show in support of the movie.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't really do plug podcasts.
Marc:And then she invited me to the premiere of the film.
Marc:And I went to the film and it fucking blew me away.
Marc:Catherine blew me away.
Marc:The movie blew me away.
Marc:It was raw.
Marc:It was challenging.
Marc:It was brutal and funny and beautiful.
Marc:I mean, it was it was like I just it punched me in the brain like a nice piece of art should.
Marc:And then I
Marc:called jill back and i said yeah let's do it i'll help this movie any way i can because i thought it was uh it was great it was great so that's uh catherine and jill later on in the show they're they're they're both in here towards the end and catherine's in here at the beginning i'll talk to them uh about the movie afternoon delight there's there's definitely a lot of emotions in it and i'll talk more specifically about it with jill but i would say uh i would say go see it
Marc:Is that a plug?
Marc:That's a hell of a plug.
Marc:Let me plug some other stuff.
Marc:L.A.
Marc:Podfest is October 4th through 6th.
Marc:You can go to LAPodfest.com.
Marc:I'll be part of that.
Marc:Pardo will be part of it.
Marc:Todd Glass, Doug Benson, Aisha Tyler, Rich Voss, and Bonnie McFarlane, Red Band.
Marc:I mean, it's going to be a big old podcast clusterfuck.
Marc:They got a package where you get a hotel room.
Marc:It's down in Santa Monica, but we're all going to be part of that.
Marc:I'm not going to bail on it this year.
Marc:My apologies.
Marc:To the people who are on the boat ride, the MaxFun boat ride, I had to cancel.
Marc:I thought I could do it, but we're breaking story on The New Marin Show, and I had to cancel, and I apologize deeply for that.
Marc:If you were going on that boat ride to see me, how can I make it up to you?
Marc:What do I got to do?
Marc:How can I make it better?
Marc:I didn't want to cancel.
Marc:I had to cancel because I got to write a show.
Marc:I thought I could fit it in.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:I apologize from the bottom of my heart.
Marc:What can I do to make it better?
Marc:But I do apologize for inconvenience.
Marc:Everybody at the Atlantic Ocean Comedy Music Festival cruise, I had to pull out.
Marc:I know it's late in the game, but I got work when I booked it.
Marc:I didn't have the show.
Marc:So, all right, I'm not making excuses.
Marc:I'm just apologizing.
Marc:I'll be at the Rochester Fringe Festival September 21st.
Marc:You can go to WTF pod.com to check all this stuff on the calendar.
Marc:I'll be in at the Toronto JFL 42 on September 24th.
Marc:I'm telling you this stuff because you should get tickets in advance for this stuff.
Marc:I'll be with Nate Bargetsy in Rochester.
Marc:Now, of course, the the big thing that you're all waiting for, I'm sure you're just with bated breath.
Marc:What was my psyche valve diagnosis?
Marc:Many of you chimed in.
Marc:Some of you, you know, not so nice.
Marc:Some of you very funny.
Marc:Some of you way off base.
Marc:But man, I got a couple of hundred of emails that.
Marc:Ranging from existential malaise, you know, to my diagnosis is I'm a Jew.
Marc:Wait, maybe you want me to just read a couple?
Marc:I can read a couple.
Marc:I can do that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You guys sent them in.
Marc:Why not read some of them?
Marc:Let's see.
Marc:I actually starred them.
Marc:Here's one from William.
Marc:I'll go with social anxiety disorder with mild depressive tendencies.
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:What else do we got?
Marc:Borderline personality from Matthew.
Marc:No.
Marc:Jack sent.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:My guess for your diagnosis is fuckhead syndrome.
Marc:I hope you don't have it, though.
Marc:Terrible affliction.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I don't think I have that one.
Marc:Terminally funny.
Marc:I like that one from Ty.
Marc:That's a nice one.
Marc:The world's longest case of PMS funny Arthur no then someone just said please don't medicate yourself untreated alcoholism takes one to no one that my friend is right on the money but I wanted to go deeper than that I already knew that I was in a dry drunk frenzy.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:Went to a meeting this morning.
Marc:Made some calls.
Marc:Appreciate your help.
Marc:And I do appreciate your help.
Marc:I can't believe how many people wanted to chime in here.
Marc:You are a self-described, self-involved, bipolar, OCD, recovering alcoholic with an external locus of control and all around nice guy.
Marc:Thanks, Jason.
Marc:That was sort of a two-sided compliment, wasn't it?
Marc:What else have we got here?
Marc:Mark, you're human.
Marc:Take a deep breath.
Marc:Thank you, Kevin.
Marc:I like this one.
Marc:When I was young, my father, when asked if he could come to my band concert to watch me play snare drum, he told me that when I played the entire drum set to ask him, then he would come watch me.
Marc:I'm not going to be one of those whiny, blaming children, but I do believe that in many aspects of my life, I am a few drums short, and I believe that our father set the bar of competency and self-esteem.
Marc:Maybe you can relate to this wild daddy's approval goose chase.
Marc:Your fan, Jimmy.
Marc:Thank you, Jimmy.
Marc:I can relate to it.
Marc:Uh, though not exactly my specific problem.
Marc:I'm not saying it's not there.
Marc:Someone says, uh, there isn't anything wrong with you, man.
Marc:Thank you, Dylan.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Look what I was told.
Marc:And then I'll tell you who got it right on the money.
Marc:This guy just wrote in today.
Marc:Actually, Mark, you have either generalized anxiety disorder or more likely anxiety disorder.
Marc:NOS not otherwise specified, uh,
Marc:Either way, you would benefit from CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, in combination with SSRIs.
Marc:That's my two cents.
Marc:I'm a medical student in Wisconsin, about eight months away from my MD.
Marc:If I get this wrong, I'm going into radiology anyway, so fuck it.
Marc:All the best, Mark.
Marc:That's what I was told by a psychiatrist after sitting with me for an hour and a half that I had exactly that.
Marc:Anxiety disorder not otherwise specified.
Marc:And he said, you need a prescription of Lamictal, 25 milligrams of Lamictal, and propronolol, propronolol, 10 MGs of that.
Marc:So now I've been sitting with this thing now for a week or so, as you know.
Marc:Look, I've been through this shit before.
Marc:I've been on medication in the past.
Marc:I haven't been on medication in years and years.
Marc:I've just started therapy a bit.
Marc:Obviously, a lot of things are going on.
Marc:And as I said to the podcast before last, I got a full bucket that's overflowing.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:My body fills with a type of rage that needs to be satisfied.
Marc:I don't take it out on you.
Marc:Sometimes I don't take it out on anyone.
Marc:Sometimes I can't shake it and I just exude it.
Marc:that i want that stopped because like in my relationship in my life and i don't know if some of you can relate to this
Marc:I have found that once again, I am at some sort of I am at a place with no bridge.
Marc:I am at an edge.
Marc:There is a chasm.
Marc:I can see the other side and it looks pretty nice.
Marc:It looks I can't tell exactly what's over there, but I think there's a there's some happiness and some joy and maybe some peace of mind just on the other side of this chasm.
Marc:And I've seen this chasm before.
Marc:I've looked deep into it.
Marc:I've been on the edge of it.
Marc:I've actually thought about jumping into it.
Marc:But one thing that I don't have is a fucking bridge across it.
Marc:I have the heart of a five-year-old.
Marc:It's easily broken by even the most minor disappointments.
Marc:So right now I'm at that juncture where it's like, can I handle what I'm going through with cognitive therapy or maybe reengaging in recovery a little bit?
Marc:Maybe reading an anger management book, taking fucking action.
Marc:The weird thing about being an angry guy or being a nutbag like I am is you think you really want to feel better, but you really don't.
Marc:or else you'd fucking do whatever the hell you had to do to feel better.
Marc:But there's something comforting about being out of your fucking mind when you're out of your fucking mind.
Marc:Hey, it feels like home, man.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So when my therapist said to me, like, did you have are you really trying to get better?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm coming here, aren't I?
Marc:No, but I mean, are you taking any sort of steps to make, you know, to try to not be angry or try to understand what's happening when you get angry and have a conversation about it?
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:I mean, kind of.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Well, do you want to take the steps necessary or try to get over this hump, this to build a bridge over this chasm of self?
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:I mean, well, where do I get to do?
Marc:I need a rope or something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Wood.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I guess I could go to the place, get the tools.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You might have to take a ride into yourself, man.
Marc:But that's the hardest realization is like, you know, I'm hitting this wall again.
Marc:I've been here before.
Marc:Like I said, work is good.
Marc:Comedy is good.
Marc:The podcast, it's good.
Marc:If you're still listening to me, it must be going well.
Marc:But the other stuff, just the emotional stuff, just the interpersonal relationships, you know, not freaking out, not getting overwhelmed, getting angry and freaking out.
Marc:Are these magic pills?
Marc:Should I try the magic pills?
Marc:What am I afraid of?
Marc:I'm afraid that it's going to shut off part of my brain.
Marc:And I guess the practitioner's response to that is like, well, yeah, maybe it needs to be shut off.
Marc:Maybe it needs to be turned down a little bit.
Marc:But then you're like, but then who would I be?
Marc:Who would I be?
Marc:So that's where I'm at.
Marc:I'm a guy with anxiety disorder, not otherwise specified, with a prescription for Lamectal and Proponolol.
Marc:And every ounce of my being says, dude, crack a book.
Marc:Take a breath.
Marc:Meditate.
Marc:Do all those things that annoying people tell you to do to feel a little bit better.
Marc:Take a walk.
Marc:Sit quietly.
Marc:Think about what you're doing.
Marc:Think about your anger.
Marc:Don't just be dragged by your resentment and fury like you have no fucking choice.
Marc:You have a choice.
Marc:So I got choices.
Marc:Thank you for all your input, even the ones that were funny and nasty.
Marc:Some of you got it right.
Marc:Some of you had a good idea.
Marc:Come on, borderline personality disorder.
Marc:Come on, really?
Marc:Do I come off that way?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Bipolar two.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I will think hard on the medication thing because I don't know what that'll do.
Marc:I mean, if I get on medication, will it sound like this?
Marc:Hey, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:This is Marc Maron.
Marc:Let's do this.
Marc:I feel pretty good.
Marc:I feel much better than I did before.
Marc:I'm not even angry about anything right now.
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:I'd stop drinking coffee, too.
Marc:I feel good.
Marc:I feel good to be talking to you.
Marc:Okay, pow.
Marc:I just shit my pants.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm not going to be.
Marc:I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:I think I'm exaggerating.
Marc:Lamictal.
Marc:Is that the new thing?
Marc:Is Lamictal the new thing?
Marc:Is that the new hot spitball?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Is that it?
Marc:Is that the new hot let's give this a try drug?
Marc:Hmm.
Hmm.
Marc:All right, my friends, I'm going to talk to Catherine Hahn about her career, and then I'm going to bring Jill Soloway into the room, and we're going to talk about her wonderfully raw movie, Afternoon Delight.
Marc:So enjoy this.
Marc:Enjoy it.
Guest:Now, I'm real green with all of this stuff.
Guest:What do you mean you're green?
Guest:I've only done one other podcast.
Marc:But you've done voiceovers.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You've done things.
Guest:Yes, I have.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I've seen these.
Marc:Yeah, you're familiar with microphones.
Guest:I was familiar with microphones.
Marc:And using your voice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What other podcast did you do?
Guest:To have no other voices.
Marc:What other ones did you do?
Guest:The Mental Illness Happy Hour?
Marc:Paul's?
Marc:You went and did Paul's?
Guest:He came to... Yeah, my house was very sweet.
Marc:He went to your house.
Guest:He was the sweetest.
Marc:Were you having a breakdown?
Guest:Did you... I was like, you better get this.
Marc:Yes, it's happening.
Guest:It's a disaster.
Guest:We're in it.
Guest:He just got it right on the day.
Guest:Yeah, it was a very... It was like an amazing one-sided therapy session.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Isn't that what they all are?
Guest:Yes, I'm hoping that's what happens today.
Guest:I could use an hour and a half cry.
Marc:You really?
Guest:An hour and a half on it.
Marc:It's going to be... Oh, you want to cry?
Marc:Are you ready to cry already?
Guest:Do you know that feeling when you're like, oh...
Marc:Yeah, I'm in it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, we could both cry.
Marc:Yeah, do you want to?
Marc:I'm very close to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I went to therapy yesterday, and I don't know what broke open, but something happened.
Marc:Do you go?
Guest:I have not gone in so long.
Guest:It's all building up?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You need to find somebody that is professionally... It's his job to listen to you.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:His or her.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:I don't care.
Marc:It doesn't even matter.
Guest:I went to a hypnotherapist.
Guest:That was the last...
Marc:What is, really?
Guest:Which I didn't, of course, because I am the worst.
Guest:Didn't know the hypnotherapist.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She was awesome.
Guest:But I ended up just kind of like pretending.
Marc:To be hypnotized?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But some people can't be hypnotized.
Guest:I don't think I know.
Marc:Because you fight it.
Marc:Like if you're one of those people that if you're not going to surrender to it, I mean, if you're afraid.
Guest:I can't.
Marc:No, because what's going to happen?
Guest:I know.
Guest:She was like, you're going down the stairs.
Guest:I was like, she's like, what do you see?
Guest:I was like, my mother.
Guest:Like I didn't see nothing.
Marc:You were just taking shots in the dark at what she might want to hear.
Marc:Like, of course it's my mother.
Marc:There's my mother.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I thought that would be the perfect thing to see at the end of a long, long, dark staircase.
Marc:With an angry look.
Marc:Your mother like looking disappointed.
Marc:My mother's at the end of the stairs.
Marc:Apparently I didn't do the stairs right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then I was like decorating and it took forever.
Guest:And then I started like Zoda and then I felt, and then I paid her $250.
Marc:But you didn't get hypnotized and you went home and said like, eh, I don't know.
Guest:But she was an awesome, I don't think I got hypnotized, but she was a fantastic therapist.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I dug her.
Marc:So wait, so she did both things?
Guest:Something happened in there.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yep, it did.
Guest:But I must have just needed, you know, when you're just.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've been doing a lot of, I have two little peanuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Those are babies.
Marc:Kids.
Guest:Literally just peanuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How old are they?
Guest:They're four and six.
Marc:So they're like humans and need, demanding in a very kind of personality way?
Guest:Yes, and it's going, especially now that it's just going so fucking fast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Well, look at my son.
Guest:I'm like, you're six.
Guest:I'm like, oh, my God, in six years, you're going to be 12.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like I'm not going to be able to like, we're not going to be able to touch the same way.
Guest:Like I'm not, we're not going to be able to snuggle the same.
Guest:Like it's fast.
Guest:Last night he, they, because I'm leaving tomorrow morning again.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And so they both came in to the bed at some point in the middle of the night.
Guest:And my son was like, um, his, this, he always has something on his mind in the middle of the night.
Guest:Last night he was, he wanted to know why bad guys are always, always dressed so cool.
Guest:I was like, I know.
Yeah.
Guest:It's like, why are bad guys always dressed so cool?
Guest:I was like, they are.
Marc:Yeah, that's the beginning.
Guest:But it's so true.
Marc:He's already an aspiring bad guy.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Guest:He wants a cape and green and black as a color combo.
Marc:How'd you answer that, though?
Guest:I was like, they are.
Guest:They are always dressed so cool.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It makes them more interesting.
Guest:It makes them more attractive.
Marc:You said that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, it makes it a little more seductive because we've been talking a lot about the force.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:And what it is that Darth Vader is bad guy.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:These are pretty big questions and they have a context.
Marc:It's not like, what is God?
Marc:It's like, what is the force?
Guest:What is the force?
Marc:And were you able to answer that?
Guest:And are Luke and Leia really brother and sister and they were in love before they found out?
Marc:I was like, yep.
Marc:How are you going to explain that?
Guest:That was the thing I was the most obsessed with, though.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I was like, they're brother and sister?
Marc:That's wrong, but wow.
Guest:But wow, that they just did that and slipped that in.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Do you know that they're rebooting that whole thing, apparently?
Guest:Which I did not know about.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:Or I guess they're doing more movies of it.
Marc:Yeah, J.J.
Marc:Abrams is directing one now.
Marc:Sounds exciting.
Marc:You know, I don't know if it had as much as an impact on me as it has a lot of people.
Guest:None impact on me.
Marc:No, I kind of remember it, but I think the most I remember it about seeing Star Wars when it came out with the credits, the way they came up out of space.
Marc:Yes, and I love the music.
Marc:Yeah, and that was it.
Marc:The font.
Marc:Yeah, but I'm not a sci-fi guy.
Marc:I'm not like a guy that doesn't...
Guest:Me neither.
Guest:I get bored out of my mind.
Guest:Yeah, me too.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I remember being a little bit vaguely, a tiny, teeny bit of me, a little bit turned on by Jabba the Hutt.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And because he had a woman on a chain.
Guest:It was like this weird club scene.
Marc:So you're already compelled towards a lot of wrong.
Marc:Mother of you.
Guest:This is awful.
Guest:No.
Marc:It's not awful.
Marc:It's okay to let that out, that you were secretly sexually compelled to whatever the situation around Jabba was.
Marc:Let's not be Jabba specific.
Marc:Just control issues.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It looked like a sordid kind of interesting thing.
Guest:That scene was sordid down there, that club with the saxophonist who was an elephant.
Marc:I feel the same way, and apparently your kid does too.
Marc:So how do you tell the kid on some level that, yeah, bad guys are cool, but they're bad?
Guest:You know, to say, like, that's it.
Guest:You have to... Oh, God.
Guest:I mean, we're talking about... I mean, it's bullshit coming out of my mouth.
Guest:I was like, listen, you have to actually listen to a person on the inside.
Guest:And she's trying to be... It's seductive.
Guest:He looks really awesome on the outside.
Guest:Really, like, of course you want to be like him.
Guest:And he looks like all the other kids are doing... I don't know.
Marc:He's six.
Marc:So you didn't give him any moral lesson.
Marc:You just said that...
Guest:I was hoping that that was one.
Guest:I was like, that it doesn't, that you can't look on that.
Guest:That there's something.
Marc:Bad guys are cool.
Marc:And mommy dated a couple.
Marc:And, you know, I don't know what to tell you.
Marc:You know, you're going to get hurt.
Guest:They're idiots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're idiots.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:But they're really fun.
Guest:I remember a guy picking me up in a fuck Bush and 92 shirt on.
Guest:I grew up in Cleveland.
Guest:And my poor dad being like, oh.
Marc:Was your dad a righty?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I mean, yes.
Guest:He's more contrary.
Guest:Like, he just wants to start it up.
Marc:Start shit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't even know if he totally believes anything he's talking about.
Guest:He just wants to... Like to engage in the argument?
Marc:Yeah, I know people like that.
Marc:I know dads like that.
Marc:It doesn't matter whether you're liberal or right.
Marc:He'll be like, well, what about this?
Guest:Oh, you care.
Guest:He's serious.
Marc:But Ohio's like very... You know, I have a problem with Ohio, kind of.
Marc:Yeah, I get it.
Marc:No, I don't know what it is.
Marc:Can you explain?
Guest:Tell me.
Guest:Can you give me a little more information?
Marc:Well, okay.
Marc:I've been to Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus.
Marc:I've performed in all of those places.
Guest:Did you perform at the Front Row Theater, by any chance?
Marc:No.
Marc:In Cincinnati, there's actually a comedy club.
Marc:That's a pretty good comedy club.
Guest:There's two comedy clubs in all three.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:There's just something sad.
Marc:There's a sadness to it.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I was just in Cleveland not too long ago, and I love the club, and it seems like they want to come back.
Marc:But there's sort of a weightiness to it.
Marc:I don't know what's going on there.
Marc:You grew up there?
Guest:Well, it's incredibly depressed.
Marc:Yeah, I know that.
Marc:I mean, I know that everything fell out.
Guest:Everything fell out.
Guest:Like, there's blocks and blocks of foreclosed homes with just, like, people being chained in basements.
Guest:How about that weird... Oh, no, dude.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:How awful.
Guest:I feel like there's, like, seven stories in a row of just women just found.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:See, those are bad, bad guys.
Marc:Those are...
Guest:I mean, that's like, you don't even want to, he, I don't know.
Guest:It is.
Guest:There is a weird little, little under really to Cleveland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There's like, there's something that I don't know if it's Midwest.
Marc:Is it still, is it considered the Midwest?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Uh, although we're East coast time zone.
Guest:I, we are absolutely, uh, yeah.
Marc:But how'd you end up there?
Guest:My mom and dad had both grown up in Cleveland, and then my dad got a job.
Guest:Anyway, we were away.
Guest:We were in Illinois and Minnesota.
Marc:Full-on Midwest.
Guest:Full-on Midwest.
Guest:He just life-wise could not hold on to jobs, so he ended up going back to Cleveland.
Marc:Because of his argumentative nature?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Honestly, yes.
Yeah.
Guest:It's only because of his argument of nature.
Guest:And then we ended up back in Cleveland, very close to the in-laws on the other side.
Guest:So I kind of grew up with my mom's family and my dad's family, which a lot of people don't have anymore.
Guest:My kids have no context of that.
Guest:There's no family out here.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's weird, right?
Marc:I mean, there was a reason why people stayed in the neighborhood.
Guest:Yes, because I'm going to ask questions to you.
Guest:You have no idea what the hell you're doing.
Marc:Right, and grandma can babysit, and you can just leave kids with family members and not freak out and have strange nannies.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Was it okay if we leave that kid there?
Guest:People just bring food sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Which is awesome.
Guest:Help out.
Guest:Help out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I guess what you got to do is get rich enough to just move them all out here.
Marc:I think that seems to be what wealthy Hollywood people do is like, I've moved my entire family onto the ground.
Guest:Like Jennifer Lopez's whole family's out here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just on the ground.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Grandma's right over there.
Marc:That's her hut.
Guest:But that's also...
Marc:It's the grandma hut.
Guest:We just keep everybody real and grounded.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, in a yurt.
Guest:In the Palisades.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I would not want my entire family to move out here.
Guest:No way.
Marc:Are they in Cleveland still?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I love them out there, but they need to stay.
Guest:It's good.
Marc:You go back to Cleveland, though?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Go ahead, cough.
Guest:I just had you grab my balls.
Marc:I did just grab Catherine's balls.
Guest:Just a quick prostate check.
Marc:I had no idea that she had balls.
Marc:So they're still there.
Marc:They go back.
Marc:What did your dad do?
Guest:He had worked in advertising.
Marc:Like Mad Men style?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then as, like, we call him Hyperbole Han.
Guest:Hyperbole Han?
Guest:Hyperbole Han.
Guest:As the years have gone by, like...
Guest:He had been involved in a... The big story is that he was involved in a Don Knotts, the lost Don Knotts commercial.
Guest:Don Knotts did a commercial for insurance that... The lost Don Knotts commercial.
Guest:That my dad has such pride in.
Guest:That it went from he was kind of the guy at the craft service table to he directed it, wrote it, did the props.
Marc:Your dad's big thing was the Don Knotts commercial.
Guest:And it's Don Knotts being like... It's a commercial that never made it on the air in 74 of Don Knotts.
Guest:Like...
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like looking at the insurance bill.
Marc:With his eyes?
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Triple take?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then he started a business called... So wait, you grew up like, you know, do you want to watch a videotape of the Don Knotts commercial?
Guest:Until after.
Guest:It's interesting because he didn't show it to me until after I became like...
Guest:An actor.
Marc:Oh, so when he saw that was your life's work, he's like, I got a little experience with this.
Guest:Don Knotts.
Marc:Don Knotts with the triple take and the insurance bill.
Guest:I know.
Marc:No, it's nice.
Guest:It's cute.
Guest:It's the sweetest.
Marc:As long as he was being supportive and not trying to win.
Guest:It's nothing.
Guest:He also had a business called Ohio Computer Ribbon and Supply Company.
Guest:uh-huh so he did what was necessary yeah he did is he retired now he i mean i would say he's been retired he's kind of been half working half not for the last like 35 years god love him but he's figured it out yeah he's able to kind of just yeah he's all right yeah he's not freaking out no your mom my mom works for a montessori school she is a administrate
Marc:Little pictures.
Guest:She works at the front desk like an administrator.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:And yet they put us all through Catholic school.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You must have been a terror in Catholic school, I assume.
Guest:I was.
Marc:You were, right?
Guest:No, I was such a... I would say I was such the good girl on the surface.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then...
Marc:Things were percolating.
Guest:It's just a mess.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, the Jabba the Hutt thing, I think, is very telling.
Marc:You were in Catholic school, and you're like, I want to hang out with Jabba the Hutt.
Marc:I don't know what's happening in that room, but it looks pretty good.
Guest:It's like Jabba and Jesus all just twisted.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, the bad guys.
Marc:You grew up with the heavy Jesus?
Guest:No, not heavy Jesus.
Guest:Kind of like practical, kind of like cheapest private education Jesus.
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Guest:Practical Jesus.
Guest:Practical Jesus.
Guest:If you need him.
Guest:In a pinch.
Marc:Yeah, he's there.
Marc:There's the hell, but don't freak out too much.
Guest:Don't freak out about it.
Guest:I used to say, we used to say...
Guest:We'd have to go in church and be like, thanks, Speedy God.
Guest:And I thought it was thanks, Speedy God for a very long time.
Guest:Speedy God?
Marc:I love those kind of things where people have song lyrics wrong.
Marc:Thanks, Speedy God.
Guest:Thanks, Speedy God.
Guest:Speedy God's better.
Guest:Wrapped up like a douche.
Guest:I wore rubber in the night.
Guest:So stupid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So stupid.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Same thing.
Marc:Fuck.
Guest:Wrapped up like a douche.
Marc:But like Catholic school, I have no context for it because I'm a Jew.
Guest:Fine.
Fine.
Marc:And you play Jews.
Marc:You hang around with Jews.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I play Jews and hang around with Jews.
Guest:I'm married to a Jew.
Marc:You're a very Jew-friendly person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I knew you weren't.
Marc:And a huge compliment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I knew.
Marc:I did know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The one thing I did know.
Guest:That Jill did not cast a Jew as the lead in her movie.
Marc:Well, no, I kind of knew that, but I wasn't sure until he said the prayers.
Marc:I wasn't sure.
Marc:I was like, she had to figure that one out.
Marc:But then I was willing to forgive you in the sense that sort of like maybe she was one of those Jews that never activated her Judaism ever, never even was familiar with it.
Marc:But that was the only point where you got it.
Marc:But there was a slight moment where I'm like, oh, she's a Jew Jew.
Guest:She...
Guest:But again, to my father, there was a second there where he all of a sudden was like, we're Jewish.
Marc:Oh, he decided that?
Guest:Well, he had done some family history and then there had been.
Guest:I was like, it's pretty amazing.
Guest:Surprise.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You're a Jew.
Marc:Got to backtrack a little bit.
Marc:But like Catholic school, it's like, is it everything, is it as horrible?
Marc:I mean, you were taught by nuns?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they wore the outfit?
Guest:We were taught by nuns.
Guest:Yeah, they totally wore the outfit.
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Marc:And you prayed just before school started?
Guest:You prayed before school started.
Guest:Everyone just, like, wrote.
Guest:We had, like, our uniforms on.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I had little.
Guest:That's an adjective.
Guest:Had a little uniform, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who just said that?
Marc:Someone just said that.
Marc:I think it was Chelsea Peretti or somebody.
Marc:I don't remember who.
Marc:About, like, you know, if they know those uniforms are so sexy, why do they continue to make them dress like that?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, why hasn't that... Once that uniform became sexualized, why do they... Why don't you just put them in some... Yeah, let them wear pants.
Guest:Some overalls.
Marc:Yeah, why do they got to make it, you know, so...
Guest:Although mine was like, my mom, I think we were very frugal.
Guest:I think thought I was going to grow like 17 dress sizes.
Guest:So you could like pull it.
Guest:It went down on my ankle and you could pull it off me.
Guest:Like girls would just pull it off.
Marc:Did they do that to you?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, that's an embarrassing moment.
Guest:But I mean, it was like, that's who we, you know, we were the, if you open, we had their lockers and you'd open up and we'd find a way to get like a paper phallus to like pop out in your face as you were walking down.
Guest:Just stupid.
Marc:Was it an all-girls school?
Guest:Excuse me, my balls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was co-ed until eighth grade and then I went to a single, to girls only, high school.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, it was all, yeah, the whole way.
Marc:Did that, well, is that a good thing?
Yeah.
Marc:I mean... I mean, were you less distracted?
Marc:Was it crazy?
Guest:I loved... I liked being... I was a good student.
Guest:I mean, I loved... You weren't bad?
Marc:A bad girl?
Guest:I was a pretty... I got A's.
Guest:Like, I worked... It's not like I was smart.
Guest:I just worked... Yeah.
Guest:Hard.
Guest:Incredibly hard.
Marc:You needed to prove yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like the tap dancing hero child.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Do you have siblings?
Guest:Two little brothers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How'd they turn out?
Guest:It's a beautiful, gorgeous work in progress.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The little brothers?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you being diplomatic?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They'll be all right, right?
Guest:They are, I think, going to be okay.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Isn't that weird when you see... I don't know about life sometimes because...
Marc:Nothing really happens the way you think is going to happen.
Marc:And then, you know, but you realize like all your preconceptions are a little idealistic or, you know, one way or the other.
Marc:And then when people just confront struggles, you're like, oh, fuck that happened to you.
Marc:And well, I think you'll be all right.
Marc:Let's see how it molds you.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It's horribly disappointing.
Marc:And that's that's the beauty of it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:Right?
Marc:I'm at a point right now, I don't know how old you are, but I'm going to turn 50.
Guest:You are not.
Guest:I just turned 40 this summer.
Marc:And I've never really thought about it before, like midlife bullshit or anything, but there comes that moment where you're like, oh my God.
Marc:This is it, I guess.
Marc:There's no big payoff.
Marc:There's no one day you're like, oh, now I feel great about everything.
Guest:No, there really isn't.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well...
Marc:We have kids, though.
Marc:That must have been amazing.
Guest:Yes, but is every day, like... It's heartbreak, like, from the second they... It's tense.
Marc:I don't even know how you deal with it.
Guest:Like, heartbreak... Like, every moment is like you're nostalgic for the one that just happened.
Guest:It just goes... It's like a flip book.
Marc:It's like... But also, how do you deal with... It's so fast.
Marc:With, like... I'm overly sensitive and completely selfish.
Marc:So I don't know how... Because I've managed to not have kids.
Marc:God has done that to me.
Marc:If there is a God, he's protected those unborn children.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:from me sucking the life out of them.
Marc:So, but when I think about having kids, just the, like everything is so, like as they're moving along and they get disappointed and the pain of just minor failures and just like realizing things, like how do you not just try to absorb that and protect them from everything?
Marc:How do you let them be their own person?
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And also what it confronts in you, everything that you had believed or assumed about your own childhood and your parenting, like how you had been parenting, like how you were just because all of a sudden it's like, I'm too old for this.
Guest:Like you have to all of a sudden address stuff that you never thought that you would.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:You mean stuff that comes up that you remember from when you were a kid?
Guest:Yes, or just like, oh, how I was, you know, there's, I, it's very, what I had not realized was how much taking care of our parents that me and my siblings had to do.
Guest:For each other?
Guest:In a way that is just not, which is too much to put on a kid.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I relate to that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it probably made you an actress.
Yeah.
Guest:absolutely just the great pretender right yes okay so your parents were needy oh my god so emotionally needy like it was yeah we really took care of their feelings and their feelings were they're both huge beautiful personalities very funny but those are the neediest yes
Marc:Because the other side of the huge, beautiful personality is like, I am nothing.
Guest:I am nothing.
Guest:It is silence.
Guest:I hate myself.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So it's like, they really, they were a great team together.
Guest:They split up when we were, when I was like 30.
Marc:Oh, so it was hard to figure out who to live with.
Guest:No, yes.
Guest:Who to keep asking money from.
Guest:No.
Guest:But it was complicated, Mark.
Guest:My mom would send me cartons of cigarettes in college.
Guest:It was more like a peer relationship.
Marc:It's the exact same thing.
Guest:That's hard.
Marc:I'm not trying to hijack your experience.
Guest:No, I'm glad that you relate.
Marc:Are you kidding me?
Marc:I don't even see my parents as parents.
Marc:They're just these people I grew up with that were trying to figure shit out.
Marc:The capacity for nurturing was very limited.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:They don't feel like parents to me.
Marc:I would never go to them with a problem.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Isn't that amazing?
Guest:Yes, I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I love them dearly, but it's like I have two eccentric... Like an aunt and an uncle.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I love them.
Guest:They would be... But I think they would... That's just what it was.
Guest:Like, I mean, we...
Guest:If either of them had a big feeling, the whole family was about that feeling.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The tone of the temperature of the house would shift.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Which I think was obvious because of how they were... It's a fact.
Marc:But was it... As long as it's not anger too often, I guess it's not... It's okay on some level.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's all of it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was awesome and gorgeous and messy.
Guest:But I... She says... But I think...
Marc:You seem to frame it pretty well now.
Marc:You've got no choice, right?
Guest:I have no choice of two little fuckers.
Guest:It's weird because of how one was raised.
Guest:Your gut is to go into one groove because that's what you know.
Guest:That's such an awesome challenge to try to step out of that.
Marc:Without spite.
Guest:Without any, yes.
Marc:Because my brother's like, I'm going to do it different because fuck them.
Marc:And then you end up just almost repeating it.
Marc:I think if you haven't got some sort of peace around your own upbringing, you can't do it differently.
Marc:You cannot.
Marc:Because you'll hide it.
Marc:You're sort of like, I'm going to do it different.
Marc:It all just seep into them.
Marc:They're like sponges.
Guest:And she was, and your parents, I mean, that's, this therapist was so awesome.
Guest:And when we were discussing it, she said like, this hypnotherapist at a certain point was like, you, well, they, this is your, you know, she was your mother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She made you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She did something.
Guest:You guys, she did, I mean, your parents made you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so i also i mean they're not gonna it's it's starting to like you know the curtain is just starting to get like all on this protect this particular act like we don't have much more with them yeah so it's like okay okay you can live it in like i just don't want to it just goes too fast it'd be better to be just like ah forgive it guys your body like an actress i decided
Guest:But she did.
Guest:That's also just because I'm so constipated.
Guest:You know what?
Marc:You're constipated?
Marc:Good.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:No, but like I pictured like like for somebody like because I know you went to Yale.
Marc:So like there's like there's part of me like, you know, like I just picture like you in college at Yale about to do a scene, you know, where you've got to find something.
Guest:Just a lot of like grandma and grapes of breath.
Marc:Did you do, you were, you were that person?
Marc:Oh, yes.
Guest:It was always like, who we need a grandma.
Guest:Oh, you were that?
Guest:That was the best.
Guest:I know.
Marc:You didn't feel it as rejection?
Marc:Like, why can't I play this?
Guest:No, I just never, I never, Mark, I never ever felt like, I just never, I just wasn't like ingenue.
Guest:No?
Guest:That was interesting.
Marc:Because I project entire lives onto people before they come in here.
Marc:You know, I look at pictures and I look at IMDb's and I'm like, all right, I've got that all figured out and now she's going to fight against it and I'm going to be proven wrong.
Marc:That's my way of that.
Guest:Am I proving exactly as you anticipated?
Marc:No, you're great.
Marc:You're better.
Marc:I get very nervous with actors.
Marc:Of course, because we're a douchey group.
Marc:Well, you don't know what's in there.
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:It might not be much.
Marc:Have you had that moment when you're acting with somebody that you have preconceptions about and you're like, wow, there's no one home.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Or just, it's not like a, I don't have a mean feeling about it, just like a, aw.
Marc:Yeah, damn it, I wanted them to be like the guy that they were in that movie.
Guest:Yeah, but that's what a movie star is, I guess.
Guest:You just see that head and you're like, aw.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You project it all on it.
Marc:But that's the magic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know what it is about people that fit on screen.
Guest:Excuse me.
Guest:I totally know what you mean.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:There's a different genre of human.
Guest:It is.
Marc:They're like models or something.
Guest:But their heads are bigger.
Guest:They're tiny.
Guest:They're all a little small.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:and they fit up there and they fit up there it's like Willy Wonka it's amazing like some people don't read like actors that you know from television they get on the big screen they're like oh they're small and they're not they seem out of place there but the other people just fit just fit and then when you see them on TV you're like oh that's horrible they should put him back up up there yeah because he's not it's not the same here
Guest:Yeah, it's so strange.
Marc:And it's not a skill set.
Guest:No, that's genetics.
Marc:It is, right?
Guest:And if it's matched with it, then forget it.
Guest:And sometimes it's not matched with it, but then they just say, forget it, put it up there, because it's such a rare breed.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And they seem to know.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:And all throughout Hollywood's history, there's about 10 different types and they just kind of replace each other as time goes on.
Marc:There's always, there's like 10 men and three women and then character actors.
Marc:And that's it for any 10 to 12 year period.
Guest:It's so true.
Guest:Yeah, that's all you need.
Marc:Yeah, it's movie business.
Guest:It's movie business.
Marc:We'll just run them until they're tired and then they play grandpa and then you put them out to pasture and people forget about them.
Marc:Let them do television.
Guest:It's so true.
Marc:It's horrible when you break down this business as a business because we're all such fucking dreamers.
Guest:I know.
Marc:It's heartbreaking.
Guest:It's heartbreaking.
Marc:Okay, so let me just ask you before I forget.
Marc:So how do you, when you're approaching parenting then, and you had these draining but lovely, glorious parents...
Marc:What kind of fight?
Guest:I'm so glad they don't know anything about the internet because they'll never know.
Marc:They'll surprise you.
Guest:My dad will be like, hello.
Marc:Yeah, somebody will fucking bring this over.
Marc:No, you haven't said anything.
Marc:Did you have that sort of moment where you confronted them?
Marc:Like, because at some point in the charismatic.
Marc:No, you know what I have.
Marc:You haven't?
Marc:No, that's coming.
Guest:Honey, I'm telling you.
Marc:You better get that in before they get too old to handle it.
Guest:Is it over?
Marc:You're not going to make it?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know how to do it.
Guest:Also, I'm exhausted.
Guest:Like the thought of having one of those fucking conversations.
Guest:But I tell you, I haven't gone home in...
Guest:I guess it's been like a year now.
Guest:We always stay in my they live in Cleveland Heights.
Guest:Now they have my dad is in my childhood home and my mom got an apartment around the corner.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Do they talk?
Guest:They're so amazing.
Guest:This is a this is a word that I've learned within the last five years.
Guest:But they're incredibly amazingly like enmeshed codependent.
Guest:Hilarious.
Guest:They're just they can't hang out.
Guest:Not hang out, but they can't get out of each other's.
Guest:My dad's a little bit of a hoarder.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Oh, I can't walk into my childhood home.
Marc:No.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:What's his hoard of choice?
Guest:Anything.
Guest:Lava lamps.
Guest:Lava lamps?
Guest:Cut out pictures of like, you know, Reagan.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Like movie posters.
Marc:So he thinks he's collecting.
Guest:Yeah, it's all like kitschy memorabilia, but yet it just is dark.
Marc:Lava lamps was the first thing that came to it.
Guest:How many are we talking?
Guest:Oh, lots, and none of them work.
Marc:Broken lava lamps.
Guest:When I was a child, he would always have, you know how people would have backups of things?
Guest:He would have backup toasters.
Marc:Sure, sure, just in case.
Guest:Like in case, not the second one.
Marc:We don't want to go a day without toast.
Guest:But then the third one.
Marc:Oh, the third toaster.
Guest:Does he fix shit?
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:He's like MacGyver.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:So that's part of it, too.
Marc:I'm going to fix those.
Marc:I'm going to fix those eventually.
Guest:Yes, eventually.
Marc:I'm going to get those working.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Those lava lamps.
Guest:Just a lot of crushed, cracked lava lamps.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:My childhood dollhouse is in our basement, and I was going to bring it home for my daughter, and it was like signs of the lambs.
Guest:There was like a shroud over it, and I went up and I lifted it up, and it was filled with other dollhouse furniture.
Guest:He had hoarded my dollhouse up.
Guest:It was not the dollhouse furniture that I had grown up with.
Guest:Isn't that awesome?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Complicated and terrifying.
Marc:But what is that?
Marc:What do you-
Guest:And he was laughing about it.
Guest:We were both able to laugh about it.
Guest:We were like, what's happening?
Marc:You were able to laugh at it and he was able to laugh at it, but he certainly wasn't able to explain it.
Guest:Or certainly not willing to put it in a box and send it to California.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still meant something to him.
Guest:All that furniture did not want to send it to his.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People attach a lot of meaning to shit.
Marc:Look around me.
Marc:Look where you're sitting.
Guest:i fight with it every day yeah i fight with it every day it's like this is like i yeah i think it's because of how i grew up i have no uh have very little sentimentality for because you were surrounded by sentimental like i want to throw away everything so he was always like that always oh so you you grew up in a lot it didn't explode until my mom moved out and then it was like like the house like over you build a fortress of sentimentality
Guest:Oh, shoot.
Guest:This sounds so sad.
Guest:It's not as sad as it sounds, but he left around Christmas.
Guest:And the Christmas decorations are still on the windows, but you can't get to them.
Guest:But that sounds darker than it is.
Guest:Maybe not.
Marc:No, I mean, yeah, sure.
Marc:Maybe it is as dark as this.
Guest:It's Christmas decorations, so how dark could it be?
Guest:But he would find a dark, amazing humor in the telling of that and be delighted by it because he likes his own drama.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, well, clearly, yeah.
Guest:This does not feel, this is, everything in here feels like.
Marc:It's in place.
Marc:There's not, this stacking has not gotten out of hand.
Guest:No.
Marc:And everything, yeah, it's okay.
Guest:This is not bad.
Guest:I have to watch myself and my children so that I don't get them, like, talk about the sins of the parents is that I, my poor son will be like, did I leave this here?
Guest:Because sometimes he thinks that I will just throw shit.
Guest:Because he has shit that's very important to him.
Guest:He's a little boy, and he'll come home from school with 17 balls of duct tape.
Guest:And everything in me is like, oh, my God.
Guest:I want to throw it away so badly.
Guest:I want to get rid of it.
Guest:so badly i'm gonna have to so you have it oh my god so you're like anti-hoarding in a way that would be my show like if you that i would be it would be mine is to like strap me in a chair and watch someone like fuck my shit up would be like and just watch me have a total stack things in front of you yes open up drawers and just dump them out i would just be like it was just a nightmare take my filofax i have filofax by the way oh really
Guest:Take it, open up the binders, let the pages fly.
Marc:But I think that hoarders are also control freaks.
Marc:They just don't, in their mind, it's all in order.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right?
Marc:But you're minimal, but you still like, the few things you do have in place, they need to really be in place.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I like to like wrap my arms around, I like to like not having a lot of shit.
Guest:I just don't.
Marc:Well, it's interesting, though, because like the one thing I noticed about, well, some of the other performances, but like I'm sort of hung up on this new movie that you did with Jill Soloway, the Afternoon Delight movie, because that was that was some some risky shit as an actress, especially as a control freak.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I mean, I don't even like there were moments where I was like, oh, boy.
Marc:like yeah we got some merle streep level shit going on here oh lord no seriously like i mean i've seen you like i mean if people don't know who you are if i was a normal interviewer you know i would go through your credits but i mean you've done a lot of stuff you were on a show with my buddy al that didn't uh that didn't quite i miss him please give him my love he just lives up the street i love that fucker yeah he's great he's great he's not in new york he's coming back and forth
Marc:He's going back and forth, but he's got a show here.
Guest:Hot, gorgeous, awesome wife.
Marc:Yeah, Al Madrigal and Krista Madrigal.
Marc:But he's one of those practical people.
Marc:He was the kind of guy that you go to, if you're freaking out, he's like, what are you freaking out for?
Marc:He does.
Marc:Just fire that guy.
Guest:You should have seen our parking spaces were too small together on free agents.
Guest:He had a lot of anxiety about his new car and the amount of space that he got.
Guest:His new old car or was it a new car?
Guest:I guess it was a Mercedes station wagon.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I remember that.
Guest:And I have a huge fucking boat Honda Odyssey.
Guest:It was like his nightmare seeing me come in.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He's very funny because he found that car.
Marc:And if you're friends with him and he's like, you need a car?
Marc:I know how to find a good car.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You got a deal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'll find you a deal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's got deals on everything.
Marc:Very practical, dude.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So you did that show.
Marc:You've been on a few episodes of Girls.
Marc:But, you know, the bigger movies were, you know, when you were in Wanderlust, you were in Revolutionary Road.
Marc:That was a huge part.
Marc:It was a good part, though, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was great for me.
Marc:And then you were in Idiot Brother.
Marc:I mean, you've done a lot of things.
Marc:You were in the new movie, the funny one.
Marc:I didn't see it yet.
Marc:We're the Millers.
Marc:That looked crazy.
Marc:But all right, so Yale.
Guest:Oh, I got it in the skin of my teeth.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But did you, you did undergrad theater?
Guest:I'm telling you, it was not like, yes, I did it all through, yeah, yeah, I did it my whole life.
Guest:College was like a turnip, went to New York, was there for like five years.
Guest:working as a receptionist in a hair salon, and then doing like off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, Broadway, you know, crap.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of nudity and nonsensical things.
Guest:A lot of no-pay nudity.
Guest:They'd have those auditions, like, sign me up.
Guest:I want to wait outside in 60 below weather for...
Marc:I just remember seeing some of those off-Broadway shows that were just so abstract.
Marc:And you always go because you know someone in the show.
Marc:And they have to do something ridiculous.
Marc:And you just have to sit there and try to extract whatever meaning they think they're tapping into.
Marc:That weird line between meaning and ridiculousness.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Them sitting in an audience.
Guest:I get like... One of my first things in New York was this thing called...
Guest:Some theater in Alphabet City with the lead actress's name was Avocado Pitt.
Guest:And I still have a lot of guilt because I had to miss my grandmother's 80th birthday to do this play.
Guest:It was a non-speaking role.
Guest:And she got explosive diarrhea right as the curtain went down to start the play.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And this two sweet old men were on stage.
Guest:Avocado pit.
Guest:Avocado pit.
Guest:That was her stage name.
Guest:And she was like, call me Avi.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So Avi now.
Guest:Welcome to New York City.
Guest:I'm in it.
Guest:Very expensive.
Guest:She, Avi.
Guest:So there's this two gentlemen on stage.
Guest:There were...
Guest:so awesome and not young.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they just kind of, when she didn't make her entrance when she was supposed to, they kind of went on a loop, so they decided just to start the scene from the beginning again.
Guest:So they just were on this very strange loop of the scene.
Marc:While she's in the bathroom.
Guest:Shitting herself.
Guest:And I was like, miss my grandmother's 80th birthday party.
Marc:Those are horrible decisions.
Guest:And it was like, you know, horrible decisions.
Guest:And I think it not only did not get paid, but I think I had to, like, the only way I could do it is if I found 30 people to pay $9 to see it.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Do you know how you would have to, like, find... Yeah, sure, sure.
Marc:You have to drain your friends.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:With your experimental theater undertakings.
Guest:Yes, with my awful experimental theater.
Guest:So then, yeah, so...
Guest:I tried to get in so many places.
Guest:And Yale, you know, I got in, slipped in, under the radar.
Marc:Did you find that, like, do you use everything?
Guest:I mean, I went too.
Guest:I went late.
Guest:It's not like I went when I was in my early 20s.
Guest:I was like 27 or something when I got in.
Marc:So you kicked around New York for a while.
Guest:I did a lot of Williamstown, this theater festival, which was the best, in Williamstown, Massachusetts, which was like...
Guest:heaven again no pay like we had to pay them yeah to break down their sets but the experience of working in in you know real production and all that they turned me equity it was all i played like yeah that was heaven heaven and then but again i wasn't like do it wasn't i never thought i would have that it would be tv or film like i just never thought this was camera ready yeah like i just never i just thought i would be doing plays but i never thought even comedy world like i was like i just was gonna
Marc:And that was okay with you?
Guest:Yeah, that's all I wanted.
Guest:I wanted it so badly.
Guest:I love, love, love the plays.
Guest:I love that feeling.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Do you still do it?
Guest:Now with having these gorgeous little fuckers, I haven't been able to do it.
Guest:The last play I did was like four years ago, I guess, in New York.
Guest:I did an eight-month run of this big farce on Broadway, which was so fun.
Guest:like door slamming because the thrill of theater you can't i mean tv and film is just not it can't be anywhere like that it's so much different well you just like the power is is it as a performer like it's your it's you must i mean you feel it as a stand-up i'm sure because like it's your it's your the autonomy you feel of being your own editor too like the curtain comes up or whatever the proverbial curtain yeah
Guest:Life-wise.
Guest:But it's yours.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's something that's such a turn on figuring out that relationship.
Guest:Anyway.
Marc:But also the fact that you're up there with amazing material and there's other people up there with you.
Marc:The immediacy of being on stage engaged in that scene.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Like everything is so hyper real.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's an audience out there and you're in this thing.
Marc:Like the juice of that is fucking insane.
Guest:and i'm also like maybe it's because of the midwestern but i it's like the i yeah it's that work ethic like you pick up your costumes you do your own makeup you do your own hair you're in control of your own it's your it's your job you're a craftsperson you're like i i dig that feeling better than the like and the community but you know someone's picking yeah i'm a grown-up
Marc:I'm your hair and makeup person.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This is who you are.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then you're like, oh, and then put it on camera.
Guest:Like, I don't like being... I don't like thinking... Like, this is not my currency, so I don't like thinking about it.
Guest:Like, I'd just rather be... I don't know.
Guest:I miss it.
Guest:If I... It was... I miss it tremendously.
Guest:I was... The doing plays.
Guest:I can't wait to do it again.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Marc:But how'd you find your way to comedy?
Marc:When did that pop for you?
Marc:How did you become the... The brassy... I am...
Guest:The rubber-faced brassy.
Marc:She's the go-to goofy chick.
Guest:She is.
Marc:She'll get big.
Guest:Making faces with Katherine Hahn.
Guest:I got a call up for... They did an Anchorman.
Guest:There was like a small part that I put myself on tape for that this awesome casting director, Gina McCarthy, who...
Guest:Have you ever crossed paths?
Guest:She looks like Sissy Spacek.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's so awesome.
Marc:I think I have once or twice.
Guest:She was like, put yourself... I had just been out here for a while.
Guest:I had been doing this show, Crossing Jordan, which was this medical procedural show that was like... And you were married... Is that where you met your husband or you were both working together?
Guest:We met at Northwestern almost 20 years ago.
Guest:But he did.
Guest:He started working on it.
Guest:Ethan Sandler.
Marc:No relation to Adam.
Guest:No, although we give that up.
Guest:He was in a play once and I was behind these two little sweet old ladies who with full authority were like, oh, that's Adam's brother.
Guest:Just like full authority.
Guest:We... Jews do that.
Marc:Confidently speculate.
Guest:He also gets a lot... One time, these sweet old ladies wanted to take his... He thought wanted him to take a picture of them as a tourist and all of a sudden he found himself between them as if he was... And he's like, who do they think I am?
Guest:And they were like, I love your music.
Guest:And it was totally Harvey Feinstein was performing that evening.
Guest:Not Harvey Feinstein, Michael Feinstein.
Marc:Oh, okay, okay.
Guest:Fine, fine, fine.
Marc:Totally forgot what I was talking about.
Marc:Oh, you were talking about how you were discovered as a funny person.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I put myself on tape and then I got this little teeny, teeny, teeny part of Helen in Anchorman that was like a line and a half.
Guest:And I didn't know what a big, my husband was freaking because he was, you know, from Chicago, whatever we worshipped.
Guest:He worshipped Adam McKay.
Marc:McKay and that crew.
Guest:All that crew.
Guest:And I didn't really know them.
Guest:But it was.
Marc:Probably better.
Guest:Yes, totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No pressure.
Marc:Just one line.
Marc:I should nail the one line and worry about kind of like doing this.
Guest:I was like, I'm not going to do all my research because then I'm going to get terrified and intimidated.
Marc:So, you know, there's nothing scary about this.
Guest:He was he said, but he I went and I would show up like.
Guest:any day that I had off because I just wanted to I'd never seen people work that way.
Guest:I had seen like improv but like the worst.
Guest:So this was like blew my mind.
Marc:The improv-ing on set?
Guest:Yes or just the anarchic
Guest:the lawlessness of it like it didn't feel just like um take places indulgent and fluffy it felt like really um unencumbered
Guest:perfect thoughts that your brain had to be... I didn't understand.
Marc:And you were working with Farrell and all those guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, on the periphery, I was like walking around with huge hair.
Marc:But you saw it.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:You saw that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, there's no one really funnier than that guy.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And just like the most perfect open channel.
Guest:Like, his body is like this just perfect... I don't understand it.
Marc:Who will?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't either.
Guest:And McKay.
Guest:Like, they're both just like... It was beautiful.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And also, like, such good eggs, such fan... Like, I just fell for that group, and then I auditioned my ass off for Step Brothers, and that kind of got... That was a fun movie, too.
Marc:It was so fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you became the comedy goddess.
Guest:Just a lot of fart jokes.
Guest:But that's important.
Guest:It is.
Guest:In times like these...
Marc:they've been consistently funny for centuries it's true my son loves it but i think that well that's important to have something you do that your son can enjoy oh he was like you're an actor huh like said this recently and i was like i am he's like show me your act yeah i was like oh my god not impressed dinosaur sounds
Guest:I did my Yale audition.
Guest:What I remember with the Yale audition, which always makes me laugh about monologues, is that you have to kind of pick a person above the people's heads to do it to.
Marc:So you're kind of like- Gazing off.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:What was your audition?
Guest:I just think it's the best.
Guest:It's so funny and strange.
Marc:It is.
Marc:I always walk eyes with the audience.
Marc:You do?
Guest:That's really intimidating.
Marc:There are people that come up to me afterwards and I'm like, I really felt like I was getting you through that.
Marc:It was difficult for me.
Marc:Did I do my part?
Marc:I'm like, I'm sorry.
Marc:I wasn't that conscious of it.
Marc:But they get back.
Marc:They're like, I'm exhausted.
Marc:That's so good.
Marc:Because you were talking to me the whole time.
Marc:And I'm like, I kind of was.
Guest:You're like, we're in a scene.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were my other actor.
Guest:I can't do it by myself.
Marc:I think I wonder if that has something to do with it.
Marc:I need to connect like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I want to look out there.
Guest:Even in a monologue.
Guest:In a scene, of course you do.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But in a monologue...
Marc:yeah but like even when i'm up there as a comic oh yeah it's hard for me just to kind of like talk out there i gotta all right that guy yes but yeah i don't know how that yeah that of course i mean i can do the other thing i've done it like on letterman and stuff where you just look out at the theater into the void right but then nothing land it just feels so they feel alone yeah it's lonely yeah yeah you get you know i'm not you know we're not yeah you got to make them a person all right yes but but that's what's what was your yale audition
Guest:I did something, I did a modeling from this fat, it's called Fat Men in Skirts by Nikki Silver, who's one of my favorite playwrights.
Guest:He's hilarious.
Guest:And then I did, God, what's so funny is that I don't know if I can remember the dramatic one because it was probably not very good.
Guest:It was Shakespeare.
Marc:It was a classic.
Guest:Some, maybe, who knows.
Marc:Are you comfortable with Shakespeare?
Marc:Can you do it?
Guest:I mean, no.
Guest:Yes, I've done it, but I've never felt like... That's not my milieu.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you know this gentleman, Mark Rylance?
Guest:Mm-mm.
Guest:Oh, he's an incredible stage performer.
Guest:Anyway, he's doing a Twelfth Night on Broadway that looks incredible.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:Fuck it, fuck it.
Marc:It's hard for me to follow.
Marc:But the performance, the jump from... I know what you mean.
Marc:i can't like i get i'm like like i can't it's too much takes something you're supposed to think it's so immediate and it's supposed to feel so present and it's it's hard i know what you mean and every time i talk about it people are like you're an idiot no i would rather read it yeah but the toilet like when
Marc:Where it's meant to be read.
Guest:Shakespeare.
Marc:That's what Shakespeare.
Marc:I have the complete works on my toilet.
Guest:I'm gonna set some complete works.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The old shitter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so, afternoon delight.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Come here.
Marc:All right, wait, wait.
Marc:Let me open up.
Guest:Open up.
Guest:All right, all right.
Guest:Hi.
Guest:Hi.
Guest:Hi, honey.
Hi.
Marc:Now that chair, before you sort of judge it... I don't judge.
Guest:That chair was... It's really good for your lower back.
Marc:But the weird thing about that was it was made by a sewing machine company for the people that use the sewing machine all day.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Triangle Shirt Factory.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to sew something.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Marc:Right now?
Guest:When we were in production, I started having that feeling of like, I'm not going to make it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, I know there's a doctor who like JLo goes to if there's a tour booked and she can't go on tour.
Guest:There's got to be somebody.
Guest:A vitamin B doctor?
Yeah.
Guest:Not vitamin B. It's all legal.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Legal and not tested.
Guest:And not tested.
Guest:We got his name, and so now I'm going to go to him this afternoon.
Marc:We need a little boost?
Guest:It's like you don't get sick for a week.
Guest:But how do you get busted for going to him?
Guest:No, not busted.
Guest:I just remember the antibiotics in Sundance.
Guest:They were prophylactic.
Guest:We preemptively took antibiotics, and then day three of Sundance, we both were like...
Guest:You were sick?
Guest:Boo, our stomachs were like a disaster because we did not need antibiotics.
Marc:So it killed all your good stuff in your intestines.
Guest:The flora.
Guest:But that was the time that, remember Sundance was the flu?
Guest:That awful flu.
Guest:Everybody said that, remember everybody was afraid for like a week.
Guest:It got like swine flu-y.
Guest:Thanks, I look like a Ramon.
Marc:You'll always hear she looks like a Ramon.
Marc:No, you don't.
Guest:Hot Ramon.
Guest:Got over-Brazilianed in the head.
Guest:She's got new gels on.
Guest:Got some gels.
Marc:So I was about to just blow some major smoke up your ass.
Guest:Blow it.
Marc:Well, the funny thing was is you asked me to help you to promote the film, and I was a dick, and I wrote back, and I said, I don't really do plug shows, but I'll interview Catherine or Jane, and we'll see when we can get it on, but I was a dick.
Marc:And then you invite me to the premiere, and I go see the premiere, and I'm like, holy fuck, this is a great movie.
Marc:I gotta do everything I can to make people see this movie.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:It came from an organic place.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:Mark, that's huge.
Guest:That is.
Guest:I'm so glad you could feel that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's all we wanted.
Marc:I'm not a dead man.
Marc:I'm alive inside.
Marc:It was frightening.
Marc:The girl energy was frightening.
Marc:But I was just about to say to Catherine that having known her to do all this comedy and then to do a performance like that that was so emotionally risky and so all out there.
Marc:I mean, I was uncomfortable.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:and i and i and i cared a lot for you and i and i like there were moments where like it was i was going back and forth between like wow as an actor this is fucking nuts and then it's like but as a person she's playing this is even fucking crazier you know what i mean and it was fucking yeah but even right it was a fever we were in a fever we were in a three and a half week fever
Marc:But the whole approach towards trying to examine this sort of strange wall that people hit in relationships and that women hit specifically that I'm not quite familiar with because I'm the problem.
Marc:I'm not the person that's generally empathetic.
Guest:You're like, we're not fucking.
Guest:You can go now.
Yeah.
Marc:No, not that bad.
Marc:But even that original dynamic of just not fucking out of habit, that the desire is still, it's almost like a phantom limb, sort of like, oh, we used to do this, and I'm gonna act like we're gonna do it, but if things just goes away,
Marc:But that's just the beginning of it.
Marc:And then the sort of emotional yearnings and the sexual yearnings and just also career sort of disappointments that all this stuff converges and plays out.
Marc:I don't want to spoil the movie, so I'm going to try to figure out how to talk about it.
Marc:But I think that the vulnerability, the balance between comedy and complete, not tragedy, but emotional pathos is fucking tricky, man.
Marc:I've never seen it done so well.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:So did you write it all?
Marc:I mean, how, where did it, I don't want to be like, how much of it is your life?
Marc:You're a Silver Lake person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I've always had like a hooker rescue thing in me.
Guest:I like a sex worker memoir.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like a, I sort of, I think you and I have shared that.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:We both have an obsession with trying to figure out if sex work is okay morally.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I feel that we discussed that last time we were here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We both share that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sort of like, I'm Jewish, I'm liberal, I'm tolerant, strippers are great, the porn world is great, but I really have to wonder, is it all okay?
Guest:And if it's not, should I do something about it?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And this movie, I think, addresses a lot of those questions, but the moral judgment is not there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the trickiest thing about that is that to have this stripper allow her to be her own person, allow her to have her life and almost to make the rescue attempt a more reflection of where your character was in her life and what that meant.
Marc:I mean, that was like menacing.
Guest:Yeah, it was menacing.
Marc:Yeah, it was menacing emotionally menacing.
Guest:Well, I think an interesting thing to me is that, you know, that I hear this from some of the sort of most, you know, articulate sex worker advocates that like it's not just about rescue.
Guest:If you're into rescue, go rescue the garment workers.
Guest:Yeah, it's about right.
Guest:It's about like, yes.
Guest:They're amping up your own relationship to your own shame around sex.
Guest:And that's what that's what pushes you towards this notion of rescue.
Guest:I have to save her.
Guest:And I think that's that's how Rachel becomes the villain is that she's unable to see how her own brokenness about her sexuality is sort of, you know, empowering this idea about I have to help this girl.
Marc:Right, and also I think the idea that we pathologize sex workers, that there's an assumption, it's a cultural assumption on behalf of mostly progressives who don't necessarily enjoy what sex workers do, but need to know why they're, why would you do that?
Marc:So you're like, something must have happened to you.
Marc:What happened to you?
Marc:And whether or not something happened to them or not doesn't matter.
Marc:Something happens to everybody and what they do with it is their own business and they have their own humanity around it.
Guest:Yeah, well, something happened to probably a lot of people in the army.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Something happened to all those garment workers.
Guest:Something happened to a lot of comedians.
Guest:Everybody fucks with kids in a different way.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:No one says, like, you're probably just in the army because you're abused.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Nobody pathologies those professions.
Marc:But even the moment, like the cute moments, like, you know, in the bathroom and then, you know, the cute moments in the pantyhose and then, you know, all of those, you know, as cute as they were and as relatable as they were, like when I was watching you perform them, I'm like, oh my God, she's doing it in public.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But how do you, like, prepare to sort of make sex faces and, you know, walk around in pantyhose with no underwear on?
Marc:I mean, like, as an actor, I mean, how was the set?
Marc:I mean, what do you gotta... How do you gotta get to that place?
Guest:An actor prepares.
Guest:I was like, Catherine, sex faces, now.
Guest:Crack it.
Guest:It was... I mean, it was...
Guest:It was very clear to me that that was the... I think to all of us that that was the only way that this was going to...
Guest:work is if we just we just had i just had to jump in you had to go we had to just go in and jump into the abyss and it was like that i think was kind of later in the shoot which helped a lot but i also knew that there was no like we were talking about before like that wasn't as scary for some reason and i don't know how this reflects on me as a human being yeah or my mental but it was not that terrifying to me like the environment was not that precious about it like we just didn't
Guest:like we thought the pantyhose thing was just hilarious right yeah there was like a moment it was a rewrite and i saw and i and the producers got the new pages and they're like ho ho hold on a minute this involves a nudity writer yeah we're gonna need to caucus with our team and katherine's team about whether this amount of nudity is and i was like just she's gonna be fine let me ask her and i was like katherine check this out and
Marc:What's a nudity writer?
Guest:You have to sign away every detail.
Guest:Side boob, right buttocks.
Marc:For you to protect you and then the production so you can't say, I didn't know that you were right.
Guest:Or you can't feel like on the day that you're being pressured into.
Guest:But this became very clear that there was not going to be anything.
Guest:Catherine's going to put pantyhose on in a way that smashes her pubic hair and makes comedy out of it.
Guest:If we see it from the side, hopefully we will get a lot of bush through the pantyhose.
Guest:That's what our dream was.
Guest:I don't know if that actually was featured.
Guest:It never got me.
Guest:Didn't end up using that close up.
Guest:That was my dream.
Marc:But then it goes.
Guest:Smashed flapjack tits.
Marc:But so much of it.
Guest:We.
Guest:There's the snort.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm getting a lot of it.
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A few snorts.
Marc:Is that good?
Guest:Is that a good.
Guest:She's getting there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Getting there.
Guest:But those... Linda Lovelace.
Marc:And Josh Radner was so good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:He was awesome.
Guest:He, like, really went... I mean, that last sex scene, the big eyes open orgasm, which was, like, the reality of it was... I mean, we can't... It was an amazing day.
Guest:Like, literally, I had, like, a nude thong on.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:That was, like, just the worst.
Guest:Like, actor's nightmare, like, shifting to wrong.
Guest:Like, it was, like...
Guest:If anyone else could have been with another camera, it would have just been like... The angles are horrifying.
Guest:Lights were not so dim.
Guest:But we didn't do any orchestration.
Guest:I'm telling you, it was like the quietest, littlest... It was just the four of us.
Guest:We like...
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Can I tell you, this is a very funny tangent, but there was a song that I was... Yes, that's right.
Guest:...that had been moved by during this for some reason.
Guest:It got stuck in my craw and Jill.
Guest:We were blasting it, right?
Guest:It was blasting it.
Guest:What song was that?
Guest:It was... In the arms of the angel.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No.
Guest:Is that what it was?
Guest:No, it was not.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:No, but it was like a Wonder Woman cover.
Guest:It was blasting.
Guest:And then I read this fucking New York Times.
Guest:Did you read that?
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:The New York Times review of the movie?
Guest:No, I haven't read that.
Guest:I'm not doing reviews.
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:This is not about the reviews.
Guest:This is about there was a New York Times magazine.
Guest:Everybody relax.
Guest:This is the New York Times magazine article about never not reading it.
Guest:There's nothing to do with this movie.
Guest:Reading a New York Times.
Guest:There was an expose on The Canyons about Lindsay Lohan.
Guest:And they talked about that she had played that song during the making of the canyons.
Guest:And it was quoted in that article.
Guest:And I was like, I hate myself.
Guest:We were blasting it.
Guest:We were blasting it.
Guest:That was amazing.
Guest:It was just to get you into... Just like, you know, every gig is different.
Guest:And this was like, there was a... I like music as like a concrete way of getting into it.
Guest:And this was like something.
Marc:Kind of getting into your own space and grounding yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I had it on my... I didn't have an iPad.
Guest:Like, I'm telling you, I am like 90 years old.
Guest:Like...
Guest:My Firefox, my BlackBerry, I didn't have an I. She's on AOL.
Guest:I'm on AOL.
Marc:I noticed that.
Marc:I was like, wow.
Guest:I'm still paying like probably 29.
Marc:I did that too for a long time.
Marc:You know, it's really easy.
Guest:My husband's like, get off.
Guest:Yes, I know.
Guest:Just get Gmail.
Guest:It's easy.
Guest:There's so many other options.
Guest:Anything.
Marc:But you get attached to these things.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I can't get an iPhone.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You should get an iPhone.
Marc:I was the same way.
Marc:You can let go.
Guest:I can't let go.
Marc:You did it in the movie.
Guest:Apparently it's easy.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:But I didn't even have, what's the thing you listen to music on?
Guest:An iPod.
Guest:I had a computer.
Guest:A Walkman probably.
Marc:Did you have a Walkman?
Guest:I had a computer with my headphones attached to the computer, to my laptop.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And Josh Radner, that was his very expensive How I Met Your Mother money, which was very generous, gave me an iPod for a rapper.
Guest:That's really nice.
Guest:I think we should summarize the film.
Guest:I got a bracelet.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:For people that should go see it, I would say it's about a young, successful couple.
Marc:That was the other thing, being in L.A.
Marc:At the beginning of that movie, I'm like, oh, fuck, another Silver Lake movie.
Marc:Like another Laurel Canyon.
Marc:I'm going to have to plod through this new middle class's entitlement problems for an hour and a half.
Marc:And then within seconds, I'm like, what's happening?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I'm so glad.
Marc:Yeah, and I'm not a, you know, I'm kind of a dick.
Guest:We know that.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I'm very, this is encouraging.
Marc:And also just because of, like, I don't know that I've seen women take the risks that were taken in this movie in art in general.
Marc:Especially in a way that is contextualized so everyone can understand it and the emotional menace is contained within the narrative and it makes complete sense and it provides a window into, for me, into what women deal with.
Marc:I'm not insensitive, but I'm still a dude.
Marc:And you can only hear so much of that shit framed a certain way.
Marc:But if I can relate to Radnor and if I can see this couple in my peers and then understand the device you used to carry us through what is essentially a woman who is frustrated on a lot of levels about a lot of things and just the device of saving the stripper and that sort of blowing up her fucking world.
Marc:But the funny thing is, the stripper, you just feel like she just re-enters the water.
Marc:You just pulled her out for a while, and she did what she would do.
Marc:And also, it shows sex work in a way that was very respectful.
Marc:Because you're kind of half-waiting.
Marc:It's like, where are we going to see the stereotype thing happen?
Marc:But she was a full person with a full identity.
Guest:She's incredible.
Marc:And with her own strength.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so the story is, you know, you're in a successful couple.
Marc:You're unhappy.
Marc:You get sort of taken with a stripper because you go out with another couple as a goof to a strip club.
Guest:And that moment... Fuck this school auction.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that moment where she gives you a lap dance, your discomfort, and then the moment of connection, like, there's also... That's really loaded, too, because it's like, what is going on?
Marc:Is she... Like, I'm like, she's going to be gay by the end of the movie.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:she wants all she wants to fuck her she wants to save her she wants to be her she wants to yeah eat her she wants to yeah all of it yeah and all that in that like you did some serious fucking acting oh yeah i mean like how do you figure this out together yeah really well what were the meetings like i mean what were the discussions when you would sit down we had to go to jumbos a couple times you did yeah we had to go to the sad one okay
Guest:Well, Jumbo's is kind of convivial, actually.
Guest:The sad one is the playpen.
Marc:I guess the sad ones are the ones that take themselves seriously.
Marc:Jumbo's is sort of rock and roll.
Guest:Jumbo's are like amazing dancers, too.
Guest:Jumbo's is like accidental strip club.
Guest:Cirque du Soleil.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm not a strip club guy.
Guest:I don't go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I can't even go for like shits and giggles.
Guest:I can't go.
Guest:Why?
Marc:It's a good question, why?
Marc:Well, first of all, I feel a lot of pressure.
Marc:I'm the weird guy that feels like, am I doing this right?
Marc:Am I getting a lap dance correctly?
Marc:Am I getting hard?
Marc:I should be getting hard, right?
Marc:That's what's supposed to happen here.
Marc:If I'm not getting hard, she's probably going to think she's going to do a bad job.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm literally as anxiety ridden with a lap dance.
Guest:This plot of this movie would have worked also with Marc Maron in the lead.
Guest:I was thinking cool.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I'm starting to get that.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I don't want to see that.
Guest:Moms or Marc Maron.
Guest:Just opening at the Silver Lake car wash.
Guest:Please.
Guest:I want to see that so badly.
Marc:I don't have the courage as an actor or as an actress to do that.
Guest:Everything smashed in.
Guest:I think all my representation was like, oh, except for...
Marc:But even the stuff in the car wash, it's sort of like, you know, being inside the car wash and then the, you know, whatever it meant cinematically.
Marc:But, you know, I mean, you really directed, it wasn't, because I think a lot of people now with, you know, the ability to make a film with fairly little money, they don't really execute any sort of cinematic chops in terms of like, you know, message or poetry or actually constructing.
Guest:The fucking light from the outside, the soap.
Guest:Gorgeous.
Guest:Absolutely gorgeous.
Guest:It was gorgeous.
Guest:It was gorgeous.
Marc:And the Jewish ladies, the comic relief of the annoying Jewish ladies.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Coach for Amanda.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jenny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it was very familiar to me.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because I'm a Jew.
Guest:You're Jewish.
Marc:I told Catherine the only time I doubted her credibility is when she was saying the prayers.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And I'm like, she had to learn them.
Marc:She had to learn them.
Guest:She did.
Guest:She did.
Guest:A little bit of coaching.
Guest:We tried to play.
Guest:There's like a bad Jew who never really knew the words.
Marc:Yeah, I figured that was a...
Marc:but what happens is you bring this uh you save this stripper in a moment you stalk her yes basically and then uh something goes down with her and you offer her a room in your house and your husband doesn't really know but he's a good enough guy to ride with it for the most part yeah and then it's just sort of what ensues within your family within your relationship and within the community just by having the stripper in your house and you claim as your nanny
Guest:Yep, this gorgeous little bomb.
Marc:There's a stripper in the maid's room.
Marc:Yeah, but you didn't do that.
Guest:Did you do that in real life?
Marc:Bring a stripper home?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you did, right?
Marc:I dated one for a while.
Guest:And she was a consultant.
Guest:And she was our consultant, exactly.
Guest:I put that all together.
Marc:Well, I mean, and I think as somebody who...
Marc:You know, the people that define sex work as sex work, you know, there was a conscious choice to make it proactive and to make it, you know, to demystify it and to say, fuck you.
Marc:You know, we're not pieces of meat.
Marc:You know, we make choices.
Marc:We're not just tumbling through life because, you know, something was put in us at the wrong time.
Guest:It's a job and it's a good job for some people.
Marc:There's a lot about class in this movie, too.
Marc:And about this sort of like new kind of upper middle ish hipster.
Marc:You know, we're not our parents.
Marc:You know, we're groovier.
Marc:We're doing everything different.
Marc:But it's weird how it's all really the same.
Guest:on a very small level I feel like we have to work so hard to get people to see our movies and I remember thinking that at Sundance I wanted some people to be saying on Main Street oh my god I just walked out of this movie where this guy had period blood on his face like I knew that there had to be sensational moments that made it go beyond just the movie right after the wine yeah so okay that's good
Marc:There's a lot here.
Guest:There's a lot.
Marc:We got a lot.
Guest:There's a lot here, but they... I got my period.
Guest:That's a song she sang.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah, she sings it on the set.
Guest:And then we used to sing a song when... Well, it's not... Remember when she... Blood between my legs.
Guest:Just keep it light, Mark.
Guest:I got my period.
Guest:All the women on the set were flowing together.
Marc:Were you?
Marc:You were together that long?
Guest:Do we even need to talk about those scenes?
Guest:No.
Guest:We're not in the tampon scene.
Guest:Yeah, there was a scene that is in the deleted scenes.
Guest:Rachel went down to McKenna's room because she had her period.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she asked McKenna for a tampon.
Guest:And McKenna was like, I've got my period, too.
Guest:This is weird.
Guest:We're both getting our period at the same time.
Guest:And they're kneeling in front of the bathroom cabinet.
Guest:And McKenna is handing her a tampon.
Guest:And they have an amazing kiss.
Marc:That's going to be in the extras?
Guest:I hope so because it was fucking awesome.
Guest:But then it did lean the movie too much toward the lesbian thing.
Guest:It's simplified.
Guest:It became a lover's breakup.
Marc:I think the scene that maybe you chose instead of that where you throw her off of you.
Guest:I love that.
Marc:That I think was probably more telling and more powerful than a kiss.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That the intimacy was so overbearing.
Guest:She was touching her C-section scar heart.
Marc:And obviously hitting her in a deeper way than anyone had before.
Guest:This is also like, this is just something that,
Guest:of Jill and she hates when I talk about it but when she when in the scene where Stephanie is where we're at my friend's house the amazing Jessica Sinclair who plays my friend Stephanie in it who's so awesome and had such an important note to this yeah
Guest:When she's teaching me how to dance, and she, I think, improvised, like, oh, you're hiding your shame there.
Guest:That's where her shame is.
Guest:Her shame is trapped in her right hip.
Guest:Her shame is trapped.
Guest:And Jill noted it, put it somewhere.
Guest:And then when we did the massage scene, that's where she found it.
Guest:My shame is trapped in my right hip.
Guest:That's why I know.
Guest:Is it really?
Guest:Yeah, that's why I was going to... I can show you guys.
Guest:I can show you.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, this is... I've seen... I can't, like... If you're doing, like, a whole circle like this... Yeah.
Guest:I get stuck here and I go square.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't, like... I was going to call the movie My Right Hip.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Instead of After Angel Light, I was thinking.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know, some sort of psychic something.
Marc:But why do you decide that it's your shame and not just some sort of muscular problem?
Guest:Was it a C-section?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's funnier.
Guest:Shame.
Guest:Shame.
Guest:It's not a C-section.
Guest:No, I had a weird leg when I was a kid, and I was supposed to get a brace on it.
Guest:And my parents were like, oh, a brace will traumatize her.
Guest:So I think I've had it.
Guest:Let's just give her a shame hip.
Guest:Let's give her a shame hip.
Guest:I can't do so.
Guest:Anyway, that's the only part that's about me.
Guest:Well, I think that... Everything else is completely...
Marc:Like, it's weird.
Marc:I've known Jill for like 20 years, kind of.
Guest:And we really have.
Guest:Really long time.
Marc:I mean, it's odd.
Marc:And then we worked through some stuff on this show.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Because I thought she was part of an army of women against me.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:The army of women is for you.
Guest:The army of women loves you.
Marc:It's for you.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:The army loves you.
Guest:We're going back to an army of women meeting after this and we will tell them again.
Guest:Yet again.
Marc:Put out the good word.
Marc:He's not an asshole.
Guest:You're beloved.
Guest:He's struggling.
Guest:A trail of period blood.
Guest:I was part of an army of women.
Marc:He's starting to understand.
Guest:I was holding, what are we going to do about Marc Maron meetings at my house?
Guest:I thought that.
Guest:So many.
Guest:That was our entire pre-production.
Guest:We didn't shot this at all.
Guest:We just talked about what we were going to do about Marc Maron.
Guest:Feels like it'll maybe get to it.
Marc:That makes me feel better.
Marc:So this whole movie was directed at me.
Marc:It was designed to teach me a lesson about women.
Guest:In you and at you.
Marc:And it did.
Guest:It did.
Marc:And I love it.
Marc:And I don't think we should talk about it anymore.
Marc:I think people should see Afternoon Delight.
Marc:So it's open in New York and L.A.
Marc:now.
Guest:Yeah, well, as of Friday the 6th, it will be open many, many, many more places.
Marc:All right, so it's open because this is going to be on the 5th.
Guest:We had a very successful opening weekend, I'll have you know.
Marc:You did.
Guest:The second highest grossing per-screen movie in the nation, including non-independent movies.
Guest:That makes crazy.
Guest:It's the butler and us, lady.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Per-screen average.
Guest:It's a certain kind of math.
Marc:In New York and L.A.
Guest:There are charts that have us one behind the butler.
Marc:Well, those are the charts you go with.
Guest:That's how spin works.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah, that's how it works.
Guest:Lee Daniels, the butler, and Jill Soloway's The Afternoon Delight, neck and neck.
Marc:Well, great job, both of you.
Guest:Thank you for having me, Mark Maron.
Marc:And I'm very proud of you, and it's not being condescending.
Guest:I feel it.
Guest:We've been through this together.
Guest:Good.
Guest:I'm proud of you, too.
Guest:We're all proud of each other.
Guest:Anybody who fucking makes it past what they thought they were going to do.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I hear you.
Guest:I'm 40 years old, peeps.
Guest:You're almost 50.
Guest:This is awesome.
Guest:Yeah, we're 10 years older than you.
Marc:It's all... It's coming.
Guest:No, listen, it's right... Oh, are you kidding me?
Guest:We're the same age.
Marc:It's working out.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's all right, guys.
Guest:Doesn't it suck, though, when it works out, you're, like, so old, you don't want anybody to photograph you anymore?
Guest:Like, this is not the face I wanted to do press with.
Guest:Oh, my God!
Guest:I wanted to do press with my... Chills!
Guest:Always!
Guest:Come on.
Guest:How hot did she look at that?
Guest:You look great.
Guest:I want that purple shirt.
Guest:Let's have meetings about how hot I am.
Guest:Let's do that.
Marc:Thanks, you guys.
Guest:I want that purple polka dot shirt.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Last thing I was saying.
Marc:Can we try to get an out here that'll work?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:Besides that.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:Everyone go see Afternoon Delight.
Marc:Is that good?
Guest:Do it.
Marc:Perfect.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's it, folks.
Marc:That's the show.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:I like when girls get all gritty and raw.
Marc:I like it.
Marc:I like it.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I have anxiety disorder not otherwise specified.
Marc:Should I get a t-shirt?
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed the show.
Marc:Go see Afternoon Delight.
Marc:It is an intense movie, and you don't see something like that too often.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Look, I loved it.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:I'm not being paid to do this.
Marc:I was excited that I liked it so much.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get on that mailing list.
Marc:Go to the calendar.
Marc:Check my dates.
Marc:Again, I apologize about the cruise.
Marc:I am sorry.
Marc:I truly am sorry.
Marc:I didn't want to disappoint people, but I had to do it because I'm writing, and it's important.
Marc:What else?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop.com.
Marc:Get the WTF blend.
Marc:I got a little on the back end there.
Marc:What else?
Marc:What else?
Marc:What else?
Marc:To medicate or not to medicate?
Marc:That is the question.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Boomer lives!