Episode 413 - Bill Hader
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:How's everybody doing?
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I'm happy to be here.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:I host the show.
Marc:Today on the show is Bill Hader, the lovely and gentle and kind and talented Bill Hader.
Marc:Is that a lot of weird, overly sweet descriptions of the guy?
Marc:He's a good guy, this guy.
Marc:This guy Hader is a good guy, talented fella.
Marc:Enjoy talking to him.
Marc:That'll happen in just a few minutes.
Marc:I am back from Chicago.
Marc:Thank you, everybody, Chicagoans, for helping me sell out six shows at the Main Stage Theater.
Marc:I ain't bragging, but I'm bragging.
Marc:They were great shows.
Marc:And I don't know what it is about that town or about that space, but I love that space.
Marc:And from what I heard from the people who run the place, you know, it's a little off the beaten path, but maybe I don't understand Chicago, but I don't know why you wouldn't go see whatever is playing there.
Marc:If they've got comics, man, I'll tell you, the main stage is a great place to see comedy because it's a great place to fucking do comedy.
Marc:I don't know what it is about that place.
Marc:I was there at exactly the same time last year and I had exactly as an amazing time performing there.
Marc:There's something special about it.
Marc:See, but now I'm starting to think like, maybe I have slight mania.
Marc:Maybe my mania, or if I do have a slight bipolar issue, it works on a yearly cycle and it just happens to fall on the same weekend as Lollapalooza.
Marc:How come I can't say that word?
Marc:But even given the fact that Lollapalooza was happening,
Marc:I was able to pull in, you know, six shows worth of WTF people and Marin people and however people come to like me.
Marc:I imagine they're not just going there randomly unless they're being dragged there by friends.
Marc:But it's a great space, man.
Marc:It's a great space.
Marc:I learned something, man.
Marc:I learned something about the difference between improvising, being an improviser, which is what Chicago is.
Marc:Chicago is an improv town, and they're highly aware of that.
Marc:There is definitely a stronghold.
Marc:There's an improv clique or several of them.
Marc:I did not, you know, I didn't go.
Marc:I didn't get I didn't go to a show at Improv Olympic or Second City or anywhere, but I know they're there.
Marc:And it's it's their place.
Marc:There's no doubt about it that what defines what Chicago is known for comedically are improvisers.
Marc:There's a hierarchy.
Marc:There's all different levels of talent and bitterness around it.
Marc:And it's it's a real thing.
Marc:But one thing I do know about what happened in Chicago is I did some old school snapping.
Marc:Hadn't done it in a while, almost felt ashamed.
Marc:The interesting thing about my audience or the people that come to see me is they will sort of indulge me.
Marc:They know me pretty well.
Marc:And I think that as much as I want something new and exciting to happen, they do as well.
Marc:And they're willing to sort of let me do that.
Marc:And sometimes it yields great stuff.
Marc:But there was a couple of shows, I'd say two or three out of the six,
Marc:where I just unloaded on some drunk fuck who was probably a fan.
Marc:The first night, some guy was sitting right up front and he just kept drinking.
Marc:And that's fine.
Marc:I mean, you know, if someone's got a problem or if they like to drink or whatever, but once you enter blackout zone, once you're no longer capable of taking responsibility for what's coming out of your dumb face, it becomes a problem.
Marc:And when you're sitting right up front as a comic, you've got a whole audience behind that guy that really can't hear or see what he's doing, but it's right in my fucking face.
Marc:And this guy just, out of nowhere, during the shows, or during the jokes, just started going, na-na-na-na.
Marc:Na-na-na-na.
Marc:Na-na-na-na.
Marc:Was that irritating to you just now?
Marc:Was that irritating?
Marc:Well, it was coming at me out of context, in the middle of jokes, for about 10 or 15 minutes, until I fucking eviscerated.
Marc:I just destroyed this guy.
Marc:I just unloaded a lifetime's worth of anger into his dumb, drunk head.
Marc:And after I was done, I felt sort of ashamed, you know, you know, I had to take a deep breath.
Marc:I felt like I just like it was some part of me that I tend to reserve for people I love or it was some part of me that I'd left back.
Marc:with the old style, with what I used to do on stage.
Marc:It felt good and the audience seemed to like it, but it's very hard to, you know, being where I'm at now to have that kind of anger come out of me publicly and then have to look at an audience and go, hey, what's up, you guys?
Marc:And then it happened another time with some drunk, you know, women up front, again, fans that just sort of all of a sudden they're beyond the point of no return with alcohol.
Marc:And I just unloaded.
Marc:And there was a couple of times where I engaged audience members.
Marc:You know, I should pull, you know, I recorded all this stuff.
Marc:I should pull this shit up just so I can, you know, if you're interested, you can hear what that sounds like.
Marc:But the odd thing about it was I was on stage and I felt shitty.
Marc:I felt like I had won something and it felt good to dump that kind of anger.
Marc:But I felt bad about it because I don't really want to be that guy anymore.
Marc:But sometimes it's necessary.
Marc:I guess that's my point.
Marc:As a stand-up, doing your own thing, sharing your point of view of things and being funny.
Marc:And then someone just is fucking with you and fucking up your show.
Marc:They get to take a hit.
Marc:I don't really like when clubs escort people out.
Marc:It's sort of emasculating, but it's the right thing to do.
Marc:Sometimes before it even gets ugly, someone from the club will walk up and just take the guy out, and then they're walking the guy out in front of an audience, and you feel like, well, I should have been able to deal with that, but it's a slippery slope.
Marc:You can engage in that stuff, and it could go nowhere and get really ugly, get physical.
Marc:Who the fuck knows?
Marc:That wasn't the case, but the case was I had the freedom to do that.
Marc:It was entertaining.
Marc:It was compelling.
Marc:It may not have been entertaining.
Marc:It may not have been funny, but it was disturbing and it was real.
Marc:And it was happening in that moment.
Marc:And it was justified to a certain degree.
Marc:I went to do the Paper Machete show, the radio show, which I wasn't going to do again because I don't know how long you've been listening.
Marc:And the last time I was there, I was accosted and sort of mentally raped by some lunatic lady before I went on stage.
Marc:But I went back because Al Madrigal was in town.
Marc:And we were hanging out and he was doing it.
Marc:And so, well, he said he did it because I did it and I did it because he did it.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:It wasn't bad.
Marc:It was at the Green Mill Tavern, which is this historic place.
Marc:And I'm not sure, but I think that was actually the place that Shelley Berman saw Mort saw for the first time.
Marc:I have to go back and listen to that.
Marc:Whatever the case, I went back to do this show and I've got a point here.
Marc:I started to see how the improv thing works is that, you know, they get these tools where they learn how to commit to certain elements of a character that are funny.
Marc:And then they just repeat those throughout the character and the depth of those of those repetitions of those character traits.
Marc:If they're funny enough, just escalate and build.
Marc:And it's it's hilarious.
Marc:I mean, there's there's something to it.
Marc:But Katie Rich, who is a great improviser and and sort of a, you know, a big deal in that town.
Marc:I worked with her on that show the last time and she did a very funny essay.
Marc:And this time she did a fairly heartfelt essay about improvising and about seeing fish when she was a kid or at a different point in her life.
Marc:But, you know, the story was fine.
Marc:But what struck me was she told a story about improvising at Second City, I believe.
Marc:And at some point, some drunk fucking idiots were fucking up the show for everybody.
Marc:And she went out of character.
Marc:She left these improv zone of the real or the truth of whatever moment.
Marc:And she went and told these fuckers that they were ruining the fucking show for everyone.
Marc:She just went up to their table and said, you guys are fucking this up.
Marc:You're fucking it up for everybody because you're drunk idiots.
Marc:Now I'm paraphrasing.
Marc:That wasn't...
Marc:you know what exactly what she said the point is she got in trouble by her producers you can't do that you can't do that oh so improv is only you know limited to uh real moments and the truth of a moment you know on stage that that's the context that you know someone who's destroying the show you know there's no reprisal for that guy because you're just a ride at a fucking theme park the improv theme park
Marc:I was glad she did it and I was glad she talked about it because that right there is the fundamental difference between standup and improv is that, you know, a standup's truth in a moment could be destroying somebody in an audience or at least commenting on it or at least, you know, giving that guy a verbal beating for being a fucking idiot.
Marc:Whereas you just got to suck it up and take it if you're in the middle of an improv show.
Marc:So I'm proud of Katie Rich for doing that.
Marc:Not that it fucking matters, but it was just something striking about the nature of those type of performances and why with improv, you get groups of people that learn how to define characters, write sketch, move through moments, and it's very specific and great talent, but you just gotta let the audience have their experience, even if that experience is destroying it for the rest of the audience.
Marc:Fuck that, I say.
Marc:Fuck that.
Marc:one more thing about this here's the sad thing about misunderstanding an audience and this happened to me too like i was you know i was full of the beans man i was full of whatever you want to say piss and vinegar i was agitated but not irritated i was just i find that i am driven by a certain point after a certain point i have to be driven by complete frustration with myself to push myself into new material so i got a little bit of an edge like that uh when i'm performing like that and these shows were
Marc:In Chicago, we're very emotionally varied.
Marc:And then I had a wooer.
Marc:I had some guy wooing, woo, you know, in the middle of jokes.
Marc:And it was Saturday night and I'd done about 20 minutes of great laughy.
Marc:You know, I was getting good laughs and I hit some sort of plateau because I felt myself detaching.
Marc:from the audience and going into bits that i didn't want to do and he started wooing and i and i sort of said what the fuck is with the woo and we had this exchange and you know i kind of uh you know attacked him a bit and then i hear this woman who's clearly sitting next to him go he's your biggest fan and i'm like oh what's wrong with me
Marc:But I mean, still, there is decorum, right?
Marc:There is some as an audience member.
Marc:They're very exciting shows.
Marc:And thank you, Katie Rich, for yelling, yelling, going, speaking your mind to drunken, buzzkill, shitty audience members.
Marc:All right, look, here we go.
Marc:Bill Hader is in the garage.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:For reals.
Marc:Let's talk to Bill Hader.
Bill Hader
Marc:So when you do movies, I think I might have an opportunity to do a movie here.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:They are shooting in Acton, California, which is approximately 50 miles from Highland Park.
Marc:Call time is 6.30 a.m., and they are saying they feel confident they will have you rap by 7 p.m.
Marc:That's a full-day work.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's the movie?
Marc:It's called... I don't know what it's called.
Marc:You're probably in it.
Marc:No, no.
No.
Marc:what is it what are we doing tomorrow yeah oh yeah i'm in that movie i'm in that movie you're like in every movie almost i'm not saying that's a bad thing but like if you really look at your your your career if you look at your your page you're like oh yeah oh shit that's right he was oh right that was he was that guy who did that thing brother solomon he was the guy on the bike yeah i remember that yeah that guy
Marc:I'm trying to remember the name of the movie.
Marc:It's based on some series of YouTube videos about some kid who was shooting a documentary of his dad who used to be a rock musician of some kind.
Marc:Oh, no, I don't know about this.
Marc:No Jackson.
Marc:it rings no bell and I read Jackson no Jackson it rings no Jackson it's not sparking any Jacksons in you no Jacksons yeah oh no um okay let me just tell her okay fine fuck it let's make a movie
Marc:But Bill Hader, I mean, I'm surprised that, you notice how I dropped your name in there?
Marc:Yeah, I like that.
Marc:Yeah, that's some radio shit there.
Marc:Tell me, Bill Hader.
Marc:I'm in line with Bill Hader.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's how they reset things.
Marc:You don't have to really do that in podcasting.
Marc:I like it that you do it anyway, though.
Guest:Yeah, so Bill Hader.
Guest:I know, I just.
Guest:So the guys can look back down at their iPhone.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And go, who am I listening to again?
Marc:He just reminded me.
Marc:He's a professional.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So I'm glad that you had some time not doing a movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's been nice.
Marc:That's one of those pandery kind of provocative ways to set up.
Marc:Like, so you're not doing a film this hour.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:You've done an awful lot, though, haven't you?
Marc:How do I tee myself up here?
Marc:How long have you been in L.A.
Marc:now?
Marc:About three weeks.
Marc:Have you ever had this happen?
Marc:Now, look, it's not a humble brag.
Marc:I'm not tooting my own horn here.
Marc:This is the way show business works.
Marc:We'll get back to you in a second.
Marc:No, I'm in.
Marc:You know, I get this opportunity to do this part today, but it's today and it's shooting Wednesday.
Marc:You know, it's four pages.
Marc:It's a pretty chunky scene.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then, like, I get on the phone with my agent.
Marc:They're like, yeah, well, it was originally conceived of for Bill Paxton.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:I'm like, okay, I can see that.
Marc:And they went out to Ed O'Neill, but they couldn't get him out of Modern Family.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:So you're it.
Marc:Why did they tell you all that?
Marc:I never hear that.
Marc:Why would they tell you all that?
Marc:I don't know why they told me it, but it didn't bother me as you think it was.
Marc:I'm like, I'm number three.
Marc:It's Bill Paxton, Ed O'Neill, and then me.
Marc:I'm fine with that.
Marc:You're plan C. But it was an offer.
Marc:I didn't have to read for it.
Marc:No, that's great.
Marc:They're like, come on in.
Marc:He's sort of like O'Neill Paxton.
Marc:You were up for Dutch, weren't you?
Marc:I was.
Marc:Let me ask you some questions to get me through this.
Marc:All right, so let's say you get a part, and you've done parts like this, where you're literally in the movie for a few scenes.
Marc:Yeah, second.
Marc:Like Tropic Thunder.
Marc:You had several scenes, but you make comedic decisions.
Marc:What do you do?
Marc:You're given a script.
Marc:So let's say you got this part, or you're the guy, here are your four pages.
Marc:What's your process?
Marc:Go.
Marc:Go.
Guest:uh i read through it oh so i gotta read it you gotta read it do you read the whole script generally i sometimes do and then sometimes i don't sometimes it depends on what it is to be honest um but no i usually will read the whole thing and then um
Guest:animated movies I don't read I won't read the whole thing so I'll go see the movie and be like oh that's what that's what my guy does I'm a troll I can fly yeah look at me that whole thing was up in the air I didn't realize that that's great I should have read that I'm a bird that makes sense yeah
Guest:But yeah, you go over the lines.
Guest:But the thing I learned was I don't get really, I don't fully, you kind of like know the lines, but you don't get like really like on book.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And then you get there and you get really, you just keep it loose depending on what.
Marc:With the other actor.
Marc:You start working with the other actor.
Guest:And you start messing around like, oh, what are you doing?
Guest:You kind of see, like you mentioned Tropic Thunder.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I show up and it's Tom Cruise dressed like that acting crazy.
Guest:I'm like, I'm going to go the other way because I can't be crazy.
Guest:No one's going to be watching me in any of these scenes.
Marc:But they were.
Guest:But you can, you know, you try to like, if I go the other way and he goes that way, then the scenes balance.
Marc:But you were sort of this kind of weird kind of like guy.
Marc:What do you call that?
Marc:It's not an evil assistant, but it's sort of a dirty work guy.
Guest:Yeah, I'm the attache kind of guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you're a weasel.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm doing an impersonation of an actual guy named John Goldwyn.
Guest:John Goldwyn's not a weasel or anything, but I had to make a choice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you were kind of doing an impression?
Guest:I was doing an impression, and then he- Who was that guy?
Guest:John Goldwyn runs Lor Michael's film thing.
Guest:He's a Goldwyn.
Guest:He's Samuel Goldwyn's grandson.
Guest:He used to run Paramount.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And he's a very nice guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, the look and the kind of way he talks.
Guest:Hello.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he produced a movie I was in called Hot Rod and he would come up to me on set and say, have you ever seen the film Zardoz?
Guest:With Sean Connery?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I go, oh, you know, I miss Zardoz.
Guest:He's like, you have got to see Zardoz.
Huge.
Guest:It's like, everybody missed Zardoz.
Guest:And I was like, well, I got to see Zardoz now.
Guest:So we're talking about the sandwiches.
Guest:Do you know why these sandwiches are so fresh?
Guest:Because, why are they so fresh?
Guest:And the guy who made them goes, I made them this morning.
Guest:He goes, because he made them this morning.
Guest:And then you just have these great conversations with John Goldwyn.
Guest:So I came in to read for the movie, and I started doing, I go, I asked Ben Stiller, I go, do you know John Goldwyn?
Guest:And he started laughing.
Guest:He goes, yeah, I know John Goldwyn.
Guest:And I just started doing it, and he said...
Guest:Yeah, you got it.
Guest:That was the only time this ever happened in my life.
Guest:I didn't have to read or anything.
Guest:He was like, you got it.
Guest:I just started doing the impression, and he was like, you know you.
Guest:You went in for an audition.
Guest:Yeah, and I had everything memorized, and I was really rigid, and I got so nervous to get myself out of my head.
Guest:I was like, what if I did this guy?
Guest:And I just started doing exactly what I just did for you, and Ben said, I'll do it.
Marc:But you had done a lot of movies before that.
Marc:I still get so nervous before.
Marc:But you still don't commit to the script completely.
Guest:Not so much not committing.
Guest:I will, yeah, depending, but I don't get... I'm just saying personally, when I read something and I get really, really, you know, I...
Guest:really ingrained in it.
Guest:I need to know every pause, everything.
Guest:I stink.
Guest:I have to kind of know it and then see what the other person's doing and mess around a little bit.
Marc:So you're not one of those guys who's like, I've got choices for each one of these lines.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Guest:That's very intuitive, I guess.
Guest:But then I hear certain directors, especially stage people, it's like, you know, that comma is there for a reason.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You know, you go up on this line, you go down on this line.
Guest:And I've had that in voiceover sessions.
Guest:And so I've gotten better at it.
Guest:I think I just, the first movies I remember those Apatow movies, and it was so loosey-goosey that.
Guest:The first movies you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, you mean big parts?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Knocked up was.
Guest:The first big part?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's real loose.
Guest:Crazy loose.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I was.
Marc:No, I was.
Marc:Oh, you were the.
Guest:The editor.
Guest:To Katherine Heigl's character, I was her editor at E!,
Marc:Right, and you were in those scenes like, huh, you're pregnant.
Guest:Yeah, huh, you're pregnant.
Guest:That's a good impression of me.
Guest:You just did everyone's impression of me, which is like, hey, how are you?
Guest:Fred Armis' impersonation of me is like, hey, I just started listening to the Allman Brothers.
Guest:Are you that guy?
Marc:Yeah, I'm always.
Marc:Walk me through.
Marc:I'm not digging for anything.
Marc:Set the scene.
Marc:I want the dialogue.
Marc:I want you to act this out.
Marc:You telling Lauren that you're leaving.
Yeah.
Guest:I want voices.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:We just... Justin Bieber had just pitched... We just did our pitch meeting with Justin Bieber.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:We did a pitch meeting with Justin Bieber next day, Tuesday.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I walk in and Lauren immediately started talking about... I think Up All Night had just gotten...
Guest:canceled or something.
Guest:So he was talking about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was all this small talk and my stomach was in knots and he knew exactly why I was coming in.
Guest:How did he know?
Guest:My agent had told him that I was moving to California.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And so I was- But not quitting the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And so we're going to go on and talk about me moving to California.
Guest:And we walked in and he started telling me this and he went, so you're moving to California.
Guest:And he said, yes.
Guest:And he went.
Guest:Like he just kind of like.
Guest:That's what he did.
Guest:He went.
Guest:and i was like yeah you know it's just been great working here and i think it's just you know and he was like no you know i get it and and you have kids and you know and you have to you know he goes but you know they have backyards in westchester too you know yeah yeah so he wanted you to stay yeah but he totally got it he's like you know you got two kids you gotta i get it
Guest:And I said, all right.
Guest:And then he said, well, let's wear this for a while.
Guest:It's February.
Guest:We have until the end of the season.
Marc:And I said, okay.
Guest:Does that mean don't say anything about it?
Guest:Don't say anything.
Guest:Don't go public with it.
Guest:And I wasn't going to go public with it anyway, but I knew in February.
Guest:And then it was good.
Guest:Then, you know, he would do little things like something would go really well and he would walk over and go, you're going to miss this.
Guest:You know?
Guest:It was, the essential thing was I, you know, I, um,
Guest:Uh, I get it, but I, I wish you would stay, but I, I get why, you know, you've been here eight years, you know, you gave, you know, I, my contract was for seven.
Guest:I went an extra season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He fully got it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, uh, and then when I said I want to announce it in New York times the week of my last show, he went, Oh, okay, well let's figure out how to do that.
Guest:And I'll be a part of the thing.
Guest:Like he was cool.
Guest:He was really, uh,
Guest:But it is a thing where you have to kind of, you just have to be really straightforward with them.
Guest:And it's nerve wracking because you're kind of going in with the guy that said him and your whole life changed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's a king.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Magic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's magic.
Guest:He went you and your whole life changed.
Guest:So it was this feeling of wanting to, it was like breaking up with your dad or something.
Marc:Breaking up with your dad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was like.
Guest:I just did that.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's all right.
It's all right.
Marc:We'll probably get back together.
Marc:Oh, I hope so.
Marc:We kind of stuck with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's the thing.
Guest:You know he's always going to be there and stuff.
Guest:So it's never like, oh, I'm not going to not talk to you ever again.
Guest:But people have told me that you get really emotional.
Guest:Other people have left the show say, oh, when I told Lauren I was leaving, I started crying and stuff like that.
Guest:That didn't happen, but it was like the room started spinning.
Guest:It was like I said, I'm leaving the show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then it was like...
Guest:You couldn't believe it?
Guest:I thought it was either a weight had been put on my shoulders or lifted, and I thought I might pass out in front of it.
Guest:How horrible would that be if I pass out right now?
Guest:It'd be great.
Guest:And then you'd be like, he doesn't want to leave.
Guest:He said he wanted to leave, and then he fell flat on his face.
Guest:He's staying.
Marc:But he was just nice about it.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he wasn't like... You asshole.
Guest:No, yeah, but he wasn't thrilled either.
Guest:It was just kind of like, all right.
Marc:I wonder if there's... Have there ever been people that have left and there's been reprisals?
Guest:I don't know, probably.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the thing about me at the show is that I was always kind of oblivious or I always wanted to be in on the gossip, but I was never, I was always kind of oblivious to everything.
Guest:What's so busy?
Guest:I was like, yeah, and you go, wait, they're leaving?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, what happened?
Guest:Wait, so-and-so doesn't like so-and-so?
Guest:Wait, what's happening?
Guest:What have I been doing?
Guest:Yeah, I'm over here trying to perfect some voice or something.
Marc:So what's the plan, dude?
Marc:I live in L.A.
Marc:But when you left for L.A.
Marc:and your agent said, did you come here with things?
Guest:Do you have things?
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing, I'm writing at South Park this season.
Guest:You're writing at South Park?
Guest:Yeah, which I've done the past four years.
Guest:I do their retreats and stuff.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:At South Park, yeah.
Guest:And then they put me.
Guest:So this season, I've written some episodes with them.
Guest:When I say written, it's those guys.
Guest:You kind of go in.
Guest:It's like me, Matt and Trey and Vernon Chapman.
Guest:And we just sit there and they, you know, we're just basically Trey and Matt are bouncing their idea off of us.
Guest:And then we help out and you go in from like 10 a.m.
Guest:to one.
Marc:But isn't there like some sort of compound where there's a crew of writers or is this the initial process?
Marc:No, that's it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Trey and Matt do everything.
Guest:So you'll sit there and you'll have that conversation and we'll go, okay, so I have an idea, Kanye West is a gay fish or something and you do this whole thing.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And we'll talk about three scenes.
Guest:And then we'll leave.
Guest:And the next day we'll come back.
Guest:Those scenes we talked about are fully animated.
Guest:The voices are in.
Guest:It's all done.
Guest:And then Trey will go, so what do you think?
Guest:Is this kind of what we want?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And we go, yeah, that's funny.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And so, I mean...
Marc:So I'm doing that, and then... You've been doing that for four years, though.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So how long does it take?
Marc:I've never talked to anybody that's, not in a long time anyways, that has written for South Park, and it always strikes me as odd when somebody who is primarily a performer, and then all of a sudden, when you hear someone say, oh, I'm going to go write on this, like, that's weird.
Guest:Yeah, most people think that's weird.
Yeah.
Guest:And why you?
Guest:Well, I, because I'm friends with, I've been friends with those guys for a while.
Guest:And.
Guest:How'd you meet them?
Guest:I met Matt Stone through a friend and then we just started hanging out and then he said, do you want to come to one of these retreats?
Guest:We have a retreat in Seattle.
Guest:Why don't you come and just bullshit with us?
Guest:And I said, sure.
Marc:And this happens before each season?
Guest:Yeah, we do a retreat.
Guest:We just did the one for this season.
Guest:We just went to like, you go to like, we went to like Laguna Beach.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like some nice hotel and you just hang out and.
Guest:in a suite yeah and you sit and throw around uh and it was just you and vernon and matt and trey yeah that's the retreat the four of the four of us and it's awesome how do you how do you know vernon through those guys yeah because i mean i remember when he was a stand-up in san francisco he works for louis sometimes yeah he's some sort of wizard he is a wizard he's one of the funniest human beings on the planet he's so smart he and i write together we try you know wrote a movie together and what happened to that movie
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:We'll see if it ever happens.
Guest:You write these things, they're like, we wrote a movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then people go, when's it being made?
Guest:Oh, you don't understand the process.
Guest:You don't know how the world works.
Guest:I attached myself to it and it wasn't enough.
Guest:Yes, I attached myself and they went, who?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but, uh, yeah, you know, um, but the reason I do it, to be honest, is I like writing and I, but at SNL, we wrote sketches.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And at S and at South Park, you break story.
Guest:And that's something I'm like really interested in.
Guest:So it's really a thing of just one, just staying sharp.
Guest:When I moved to LA and you go and you take meetings and you do those things, but also you, I just learn a ton.
Guest:Oh,
Marc:Well, breaking story, I just learned how to do that.
Marc:It's a trip because you think the weird thing about breaking story, like especially on my show where I thought I had stories is you really just have events.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, you know, like the guy goes to the store and then the guy shoots him.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Well, that happens.
Marc:But what's the story?
Marc:What's the second act?
Marc:Well, that would be the end of the third act.
Marc:And you're like, wait, wait, that's not a thing.
Marc:That's not a story.
Marc:That's a situation.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:It was really weird to learn that because in your head, your head's sort of like, that's the whole thing.
Marc:That's the whole show.
Marc:It's like, that's a very short show.
Guest:That's very short.
Guest:That's what I learned from Trey and Matt was we would say, well, you know, this can happen and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens.
Guest:And they went, well, there's a problem.
Guest:That's not right.
Guest:And we go, what do I do?
Guest:And he said, it has to be this happens, so therefore this happens, but then this happens, so now therefore this happens.
Guest:You know, it's a different logic, you know what I mean?
Guest:There just has to, you know, there has to be some continuation there.
Guest:And once I figured that out, I was like, oh, that's cool.
Guest:And I'm still figuring it out.
Guest:But every time I meet with those guys, I always...
Guest:get in the car on the way home and go, okay, I think I kind of... I'm understanding this a little bit better now.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:What do you write?
Marc:A whole season then?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The four of you?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How many is in a season?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think it's like 13 episodes or 14 episodes.
Marc:So you and Vernon and Matt and Trey just sat there and crunched the season.
Guest:Yeah, we just... But this year... Well, past years, they've had other writers like Eric Rivanoia and... It's still a very funny show.
Marc:It always, like, you know, kind of...
Marc:It's actually some of the most powerful satire around consistently, and it just keeps churning out.
Guest:Yeah, those guys, and it really is, it's the thing that I loved about Monty Python growing up, and so the comedy was that it really is just the two-headed beast.
Guest:It's just those two guys.
Guest:Monty Python was five guys being like, this is what we find funny.
Guest:And it really is, that's it.
Guest:There's no other...
Guest:other thing there you're just kind of following their muse of what they're into at that moment and then and Vernon and I I guess there's good at going along with them you know but it really is those two dudes they just and it seems like they've just have learned each step of the way since doing dumb you know doing dumb little thing like shorts in college right but there isn't any real difference right
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, from their approach to things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'll sit there and talk and in the middle of it, Trey will just go, well, I'm going to go write this, which means go home.
Guest:You know, it's very informal.
Guest:You just kind of hang out, bullshit, and then he goes, well, I'm going to go write all that and then leaves, you know.
Marc:And that's all they do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they did the musical, which is amazing, which I didn't see.
Guest:Phenomenal.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's one of those things that I, because we were working with those guys, my wife and I and Vernon and his wife, we got to go to all these, um,
Guest:rehearsals and workshops for the Book of Mormon before we saw it.
Guest:So we were going three years before it opened.
Guest:To give notes?
Guest:Not really to give notes.
Guest:I mean, they would ask us informally like, oh, what'd you think?
Guest:Do you like that?
Guest:But it was very different.
Guest:Like a lot of it took place in Salt Lake City and then it kind of changed and you're seeing how it morphed.
Guest:And I felt in the end it was like, oh, it was like being in the editing room or hanging out watching guys write Blazing Saddles or like Brian or some... You just knew like, oh, this is going to be a big...
Guest:It's a big deal.
Marc:So it's interesting to me that because I didn't I certainly would have no way of knowing that about you.
Marc:But like it's such it's really a small circle.
Marc:I mean, it's just those guys.
Marc:And then all of a sudden it's like in Bill Hader.
Marc:I thought that they had sort of I knew that people moved in and out of writing for that because but I didn't realize that the process is really you hang out for a week or a weekend.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's it.
Marc:Then you've written for South Park.
Guest:Yeah, well, for the, no, I mean, it's six-day weeks, and you have Wednesday off, and it's for, like, three months.
Guest:Oh, okay, so it's not just the retreat.
Guest:Yeah, you do the retreat, and then you kind of get some ideas, but then they leave room for, like, whatever's going to happen during the run, and that's why you'll see some news story, and then that Wednesday, South Park did it, and you're like, how the hell did they turn that around so fast?
Marc:Oh, because they know something's going to happen.
Guest:Or they figure it out.
Guest:They go, oh, my God, we've got to do something about that.
Guest:That's so funny, you know, and then, you know,
Marc:I know we talked a little bit about it before, but are you surprised entirely that your career just sort of went where it went?
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:Because, I mean, you grew up where, in Oklahoma?
Marc:Tulsa, Oklahoma, yeah.
Marc:I don't even know what that looks like.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of people, it's just flat.
Marc:Who else is from there?
Marc:Anybody?
Marc:Sam Kennison.
Guest:Sam Kennison went there.
Guest:Gary Busey.
Guest:Gary Busey actually was on a show called Mazepa Papazoidi, which was a public access show in the 70s where they would show horror movies and sci-fi movies.
Guest:And it was just him, this guy Gaylord Sertain, who was in all the Ernest movies, and this guy named Jim Millway Sr.,
Guest:And they just were three dudes in a crappy TV studio in Tulsa.
Guest:And that's how it started?
Guest:Just improvising.
Guest:Yeah, just improvising and doing these dumb sketches.
Guest:And you could see some on YouTube.
Guest:They're really funny.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They still like...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Guest:They're regionally really funny.
Guest:If you're from Tulsa, you're kind of like, okay, that's really funny.
Guest:I know those kind of people.
Guest:But he was really funny in those.
Guest:I mean- I guess he was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like early, mid-70s, but my dad had tapes of him.
Guest:And so he's like, oh, you got to watch Mazeva Papazoidy.
Guest:And me and my friends would go downstairs and watch him.
Guest:And then I moved, I went to high school with Jim Millway Jr.
Guest:So he was like, it was like meeting, I don't know, John Cleese's son or something.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:dad's in those videos like your dad is so fucking funny like i was just freaking out i'm like can i meet him you know what i mean so that was did you meet him i did meet him once and i was very starstruck yeah he was just like an ordinary dad he was like oh hi yeah um is jim ready to leave you know what i mean and i was like man mizepa papa's old and he's like that was 25 years ago son so
Guest:I was like, man, that is the shit, dude.
Marc:What, did he just stay in Tulsa?
Guest:Yeah, he's just like a businessman in Tulsa.
Guest:But like in the early 70s, he was buddies with Gaylord Sartain and Gary Busey.
Guest:And they were just clearly stoned, just fucking around and just like making each other laugh.
Guest:And it was so funny.
Marc:These were interstitial segments too?
Guest:Interstitial.
Guest:So you'd be watching a horror movie and they would just cut to them and it was always some sort of school.
Guest:It was like, uh, Teddy Jacketti, Gary Busey was a character named Teddy Jacketti.
Guest:Teddy Jacketti's school on like making airplane noises.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they, and they would try to teach some guy.
Marc:70s sketch comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:70s sketch comedy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was so fucking stupid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Some of them are on YouTube.
Guest:Check them out.
Marc:And Busey, well, he is funny.
Yeah.
Guest:He is funny.
Guest:And those things, you're kind of like, oh, I get it.
Guest:I so get it.
Marc:But Tulsa, you've got a pair of boots.
Marc:Did we talk about that?
Marc:Do you have some cowboy boots?
Guest:I have no cowboy boots.
Guest:You did at one time?
Guest:No.
Guest:Never?
Guest:Never had cowboy boots.
Marc:How did you avoid that in Tulsa?
Guest:Seriously.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:My dad's from Chicago, and he's like, you're not wearing boots.
That's right.
Guest:You do have sort of a Chicago accent, right?
Guest:A little bit, maybe.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't have the Oklahoma thing.
Guest:Everyone's always surprised when they hear I'm from Oklahoma.
Marc:Well, my parents are from Jersey and I grew up in New Mexico and I don't have an, I don't know if there is a regional.
Marc:Do you know what the, what is Oklahoma?
Guest:Just that, what I was kind of doing like, Hey man, how you doing?
Marc:Oh, it's like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or not quite Texas.
Guest:Yeah, it was kind of, it's got a draw to it.
Marc:But Tulsa's like, Oklahoma, what do I know about Oklahoma?
Marc:I mean, I think of rodeo.
Guest:Yeah, or Roberts University.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like a lot of the televangelists you see, a lot of that was in Tulsa.
Marc:Well, that's where Kennison's family was, a crew of televangelists.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you know that?
Guest:Yeah, I knew he was a preacher.
Guest:He does that whole bit in his stand-up where he does the- Yeah, where he preaches.
Marc:Yeah, he could do it.
Marc:He knew how to do it.
Marc:Yeah, it was great.
Marc:But you didn't grow up with that either.
Marc:No, not at all.
Marc:No religion?
Marc:No.
Marc:Not the heavy Jesus?
Guest:Not the heavy Jesus.
Guest:Light Jesus?
Guest:We had light Jesus, yeah.
Guest:It was like my mom, like Easter morning, being like, we got to go to church or they'll run us out.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were both from Chicago?
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:No, my mom is from Tulsa.
Guest:She grew up in Tulsa.
Guest:Is that why your dad went to?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ah.
Guest:He went down to Tulsa.
Guest:No, they met in college.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she was from Tulsa?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they started a family?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they wanted grandparents nearby?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you got brothers and sisters?
Marc:Two sisters.
Marc:Two sisters?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Younger?
Guest:Younger.
Guest:Two younger sisters.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, what does that make them now?
Marc:How old?
Marc:How old are you?
Marc:I'm 35.
Guest:Oh, so they're 34 and 31.
Marc:Everyone gets along?
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Are they in show business?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Are they in Tulsa?
Guest:One's in Tulsa.
Guest:The other one is in New Mexico.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I don't know where in New Mexico.
Guest:That's where I'm from.
Guest:I haven't been there.
Guest:She just moved.
Marc:See, I feel like I think Oklahoma touches New Mexico at the top, doesn't it?
Marc:Yeah, probably.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Doesn't the end of the panhandle?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kind of kiss off your neighbors.
Marc:Yeah, there's like that Four Corners area where you can sort of put one limb in Oklahoma, one in... New Mexico, to be honest, Santa Fe is like where a lot of friends would go.
Guest:Like Colorado, you go to Santa Fe, you go to Albuquerque, you go see concerts.
Guest:Sometimes people drive that far to go see a concert.
Marc:How long would you drive to Tulsa?
Guest:It's like forever.
Guest:It's like 15 hours.
Guest:My new friends were like, we're going to go to Albuquerque, man.
Marc:And I'm like, what?
Marc:those are the worst ideas the worst ideas that we get half high on the drive and then you'd be fucked up from the drive and then by the time you got to the concert you're just strung out from the road yeah and then you buy you get a hotel room at a hotel six and like four of you sleep in the fucking hotel room it's a disaster yeah and they're like whose idea was this yeah yeah yeah three hours into the drive yeah there's all that momentum like here we
Marc:go and then like nine hours in like oh fuck yeah how far we used to do that to denver we go to mile high stadium oh yeah that was only 10 hours but we did that twice and were you stoked doing it or was it it was okay one time we went in two cars and i remember we i'd stolen a bunch of food from the deli i worked at and we ended up like having food fights in between the cars on the highway and it was always a living the dream yeah man
Marc:But, okay, so you end up in Tulsa.
Marc:When did the outside of Zepa, what is it?
Guest:Zepa Papazoidy.
Guest:Zepa Papazoidy.
Guest:That's such a 70s name, too.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what it is, Zepa Papazoidy.
Guest:They thought that was hilarious.
Guest:We'll call it Zepa Papazoidy, man.
Marc:Oh, shit, man.
Marc:But when did you get the bug, man?
Marc:When did you, like, were you in high school doing musicals?
Marc:No.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:Just imagine me doing a musical.
Guest:No, I did a little bit of acting in high school, mostly because I was dating a girl who was doing acting, but I didn't really think about it that much.
Guest:What were you, what was the plan?
Guest:I really liked filmmaking.
Guest:I was more of a film buff, and I wanted to be a filmmaker, a writer, and filmmaker.
Guest:And so I went to, I had terrible grades in high school, and I couldn't really get into any good film school, so I ended up going to a community college in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Marc:Two-year program?
Guest:Yeah, and I stayed for a year, and then my buddies were like, fuck this, let's just move to LA.
Guest:So I moved to LA in 99, and then I started.
Guest:Yeah, and then I was a PA for a really long time.
Guest:You were one of those guys.
Guest:Yeah, it was like the PA, can I get you coffee?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:How do I get in?
Guest:Yeah, how do I get in?
Marc:What does your dad do that he lets you do this shit?
Guest:He runs an air freight company.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:But my dad actually, when I was really young, I don't even remember it really, but it's true, he did stand-up for a little bit.
Guest:My dad tried, he loves, he still to this day loves stand-up comedy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Obsessed with stand-up comedy.
Guest:Listen, on the serious, I just went and saw these OKC basketball games with him and we drove up to Tulsa and the whole way we were listening to
Guest:Yeah, just the whole time.
Guest:And he's like, oh, you got to listen to this guy.
Marc:This guy's great.
Guest:You know, he just loves.
Guest:He loves stand up.
Guest:He loves stand up.
Guest:So we.
Guest:What, he did open mics or.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I think he went down to Houston where there was like a scene.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:You know, in the early 80s and Hicks and all those things.
Marc:What was his name?
Marc:Pineapple and Jimmy.
Marc:Was it Freddie Pine?
Marc:Jimmy Pineapple?
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:Steve Epstein, Riley Barber.
Guest:There was that whole Houston scene that he would kind of go down and do stand-up, but he never, he had like three kids.
Guest:At the workshop, I think it was called.
Guest:And he just was like, nah, fuck this.
Guest:And he started driving a truck.
Marc:But he was doing it.
Marc:He did it for a little bit.
Guest:He was excited.
Guest:And I think...
Guest:Do you see any tape on him?
Guest:No.
Guest:To this day, I'm like, Dad, come on.
Guest:You've got to give me some of your jokes.
Guest:Did he have one?
Guest:You've got to have a tape.
Marc:There's got to be a Betamax or a VHS.
Guest:Something, someplace.
Guest:No, I never showed it to you.
Guest:I know he had like, I can't remember any of his jokes.
Guest:I know he had like cocaine humor.
Guest:I remember that.
Guest:It was very early 80s.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
Guest:But he did, but he was so, so me getting on Saturday Night Live blew his mind.
Guest:I mean, he was so excited.
Marc:This must have been the greatest thing in the world.
Guest:It was the greatest thing in the world.
Guest:He came to a show where I got to say live from New York and he was like totally crying, straight up crying.
Guest:And it's so crazy because you do it and it's such a quick, we got to go over here.
Guest:And I look up real quick and I see my dad crying and I can't even like process it.
Guest:You can't have the emotions.
Guest:I can't have the moment.
Guest:I'm like, stop.
Guest:I got to dress up like some other guy.
Guest:My dad was just blown away.
Guest:He's like, oh, my God.
Guest:I can't believe it.
Guest:We've been watching that show since 75.
Guest:I saw the first one.
Guest:He's a big comedy fan.
Marc:Oh, did you walk him around the studio?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I introduced him to Lorne.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:He saw Don Pardo doing the thing in the booth, and he was like, fuck.
Guest:He was going crazy.
Guest:He freaked out.
Guest:He was really kind of shy around Jim Downey.
Guest:Introducing to Jim Downey.
Guest:And Jim Downey's really gregarious and stuff.
Marc:He's been the writer there since day one almost.
Guest:Yeah, he came in with Bill Murray.
Guest:And my dad was very nice.
Guest:And then he walked away.
Guest:My dad's like...
Guest:the bank of change like that's the guy you know it's like yeah it's him down he's been around forever you know oh he's a big uh that's cute man yeah he's a big uh he loves he loves what's your mom was your mom like okay she's like all right yeah we're fine
Guest:everything's okay i'm happy he's making a living yes i'm very happy yeah this is good yeah i'm glad yeah because i was so bad and like i was bad in school but everybody thought i was on drugs and drinking and stuff but i wasn't it wasn't like i had a moral thing against it i was just i don't know i think i figured out my senior high school oh i'm just interested in one thing yeah and i can't concentrate
Guest:I don't give a shit about chemistry or anything like that.
Guest:But I had the cool English teacher say, Hater, you don't smoke the dubage?
Guest:That's what he said in a parking lot once, and I was like, fuck you, fuck this place.
Guest:I was more just like a... Right, you were just sort of detached from it all.
Guest:I smoked cigarettes and drank coffee and kind of just sat around and had a beard.
Marc:You don't smoke the dubage.
Guest:You don't smoke the dubage.
Guest:I was like, get away from me.
Marc:The cool English teacher, that can go either way.
Marc:Either they're kind of creepy or they change your life.
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:He was more of like the Donald Sutherland, I want to fuck your girlfriend kind of English TV.
Marc:From In One House, yeah.
Marc:He was more of that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay, so you do a year at community college studying what, though?
Guest:Filmmaking.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:I made some films.
Guest:I met some buddies there, and then we all just moved to LA, and we were all PA, and I PA'd on...
Guest:I was a production assistant on like really low budget, shitty movies.
Guest:One of the first jobs I had actually was driving around Marty Cove.
Guest:He was best known as the evil sensei from Karate Kid, the guy who says sweep the leg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I drove him around and he- This is Hollywood.
Guest:This is Hollywood, man.
Guest:This is Hollywood.
Guest:So I'm driving around in my shitty car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he got me lost on purpose because he didn't know the, he hadn't read the script yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he was like, nah, nah, yeah, you don't take this.
Guest:Take Havenhurst.
Guest:What do you get on the 405 for?
Guest:And I have like a Thomas guide on my lap.
Guest:I go, I think I'm supposed to go here, you know.
Guest:And then he got me lost, and the first AD, my boss screamed at me, and it was this terrible day.
Guest:And then on the way back, he goes, we're driving.
Guest:It's like at night.
Guest:We're driving down the freeway.
Guest:And he goes, Bill, are you mad at me?
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:And he goes, you want a milkshake?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go, what are you talking about?
Guest:You want a cookie?
Guest:You want a milkshake?
Guest:And I'm like, it's the guy from Cruddy Kid.
Guest:And I go, no.
Guest:It was like my first Hollywood experience.
Guest:So he goes, there's a McDonald's right up here.
Guest:Pull over.
Guest:We'll get you a cookie.
Guest:We'll get you a milkshake.
Guest:Everything will be all right.
Guest:And I go, oh, OK.
Guest:So I pull over to McDonald's.
Guest:He goes, what kind of milkshake do you want?
Guest:And I go.
Guest:chocolate yeah it was like chocolate milkshake the chocolate chip cookie I'll be right back I'm so sorry yeah he leaves he comes back out eating the chocolate chip cookie and drinking the milkshake right and then he just sits in the back and goes come on let's go go no no it was the biggest fuck you I was like whoa it was a weird mind fuck of like I'm gonna get you this thing and then he ate it in front of me and I just drove home in silence really
Guest:And I was like, that was my first like welcome to Hollywood kid like moment.
Guest:My God.
Guest:I came home to all my roommates and I was like, you won't fucking believe what just happened to me.
Guest:And they're all were like dying laughing.
Marc:Did you have to go back the next day?
Guest:Yeah, I drove him to work every day.
Guest:And I didn't talk to him after that.
Guest:I just kind of like stayed like straight ahead.
Guest:whatever happened to that guy i don't know but i heard i will say that i heard he was going through some sort of emotional he was going through like a divorce or something was happening with him so he might be he might be a really nice guy but i just for some reason i rubbed him the wrong way and i don't know what was going on that like what was he teaching you like just like that some of us are don't listen to me yeah don't why did you listen to me
Marc:It was just sort of one of those things where it's like, this is how show business works.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:Or it was just, I want to fuck with this kid.
Guest:I'm having a bad day.
Guest:And you were like 20?
Guest:I was 20, yeah.
Guest:And I just was like, my God.
Marc:And what other sets were you on?
Guest:I was on a movie called Two Little Heroes, which is like Home Alone with two dogs.
Guest:It was all done by these Russians.
Yeah.
Guest:And we drove around like these Russians.
Guest:We didn't speak English.
Guest:They didn't speak English.
Guest:We couldn't speak Russian.
Guest:But me and my friend were the only two like real English people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they wanted to make this film with this home alone but with dog.
Guest:And so we did that movie for like a month.
Guest:And then...
Guest:And I did a, I was this Playboy show called Night Calls.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was like a call-in phone sex show.
Guest:I was like a stage manager there for like a week.
Marc:So you were in that loop of PAs, like everyone, you had a little community of people that would tell you, because I remember trying to do that.
Marc:You had to be in sort of like this circuit of PAs.
Guest:Yeah, and the guy would go, hey, I got a job.
Guest:You want to do this for two days?
Marc:Right.
Marc:It was like $100 a day or something?
Guest:$100 a day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the best thing is then I got a job on this movie called Collateral Damage with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Guest:Yeah, I remember that.
Guest:And that was like a big movie.
Guest:And so that, like, I got to work for six months.
Marc:That was your break?
Marc:And that was a lot of money.
Marc:That was my break in that.
Marc:So what were you doing?
Marc:Like, were you writing?
Marc:Were you making movies?
Marc:I was writing.
Marc:Trying stand-up or anything?
Guest:It was a big...
Guest:lesson was I was writing but I got so kind of wrapped into making money and being on movie sets and kind of stars in my eyes a little bit of like look at this I'm hanging out with Arnold Schwarzenegger and all these things I did the Spider-Man movie and all these other things and I was doing nothing creative and then I went to Second City Theater after doing this for like
Guest:Five years.
Marc:PA-ing?
Guest:PA-ing.
Guest:I was an assistant editor.
Guest:I was a runner.
Guest:I drove film elements around.
Marc:That's weird because that can really happen.
Marc:You forget why you're out here.
Guest:I fully did that.
Guest:I 100%.
Guest:And I also admit I was scared.
Guest:I was really scared of...
Guest:fucking up and failing.
Guest:I had a hard time.
Guest:I was so confident in high school and school and everything.
Guest:And then when it was like, I have to pay the bills.
Guest:You wanted to pay the bills.
Guest:I just, I just, that was my whole goal was to pay the bills.
Guest:I was a little freaked out.
Marc:Right, but you keep getting this work and you become a go-to guy in those.
Marc:Because the people that are hiring you to do that over and over again, they don't give a fuck about your dream.
Marc:They don't care.
Marc:Yeah, and I imagine at some point, even though you're on film sets and everything else, they're still like, well, how do I get from where I am to where the lights are?
Marc:Exactly, exactly.
Marc:There's this idea that, well, I'm in.
Guest:no you're not there's nothing there's no in no there's never an in even when you're in you're not in no right you know what I mean you still have to bust your ass and work and kind of like uh that's what I've figured out right so what was the moment where you're like I have to I went to a buddy show uh that you know Derek Waters yeah and Simon Hillberg who's on uh Big Bang Theory and then my friend oh yeah yeah I was gonna talk to him soon he's a great guy really really great great guy and uh
Guest:And you guys were buddies and he was trying... No, no, I didn't know them.
Guest:I just went with my friend and we went and saw this Second City show.
Guest:It wasn't your friend's show, you just went.
Guest:No, we just went with these people and I was like, oh, these people my age doing sketch comedy at Second City on Melrose.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I went to another friend's level five show there and so then I asked him...
Guest:My buddy, Eric Filipkowski, I said, how do I get in on this?
Guest:And he said, oh, just sign up here.
Guest:So I signed up.
Guest:That was like 2003.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I signed up for classes and just started taking classes.
Guest:At Second City.
Guest:At Second City.
Guest:And the best thing that that taught me was to fuck up, just to get up in front of people and fuck up.
Guest:Yeah, get over the fear.
Guest:To get over the fear, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I had a lot of fear going into it of being like...
Guest:You just get into a place where you're too cool or you start criticizing movies and TV.
Guest:But then you do it and you go, oh, this shit is hard.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So cut these things some slack, you know what I mean?
Guest:And so it's hard and it's not like an easy thing.
Marc:Well, that's a big shift from a lifetime of being an armchair critic.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Bitter for no reason.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like, yeah, fuck that.
Marc:Fuck that.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Marc:That guy, this is hack, or that sucks, or this guy doesn't know how to make movies.
Marc:And what are you doing?
Marc:I got to be on set tomorrow.
Guest:I got to get that guy a coffee tomorrow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But some people live their whole life like that.
Marc:There's a tragic hierarchy in Hollywood.
Marc:You can talk about the show business hierarchy, but there's a dark one that mirrors it of people who aren't in show business that goes all the way up.
Guest:They're on this weird periphery.
Guest:And it was just a thing about being someone who does stuff.
Marc:And what were some of the, like you were just doing sketches and learning how to improvise?
Guest:Just sketches, improvising.
Guest:And then this guy, Matt Offerman, who's Nick Offerman's brother, Eric Filipkowski, and the guy Mel Cowan, the four of us started a sketch group.
Guest:And we did a, we had a sketch group and we were doing shows like in a backyard in Van Nuys.
Guest:We were just doing, we had no space.
Guest:We didn't know anybody with like a space or anything.
Marc:And Offerman wasn't a star yet.
Guest:But Nick would let us rehearse at his workshop.
Guest:His workshop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had that then.
Guest:He had that then.
Guest:It was 2004.
Guest:So we'd go to his workshop and rehearse.
Guest:And was he sanding things?
Guest:He was just sanding like a boat in the background.
Guest:But he was very nice.
Guest:And then Megan Mullally, his wife, saw me in one of those shows and recommended me to Lorne Michaels.
Guest:It was that fast.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And it was like, I was just the luckiest, craziest break in the world.
Guest:And she was already a Broadway star.
Guest:She did Will and Grace.
Guest:Oh yeah, right, exactly.
Guest:And she had hosted the show.
Guest:She just hosted the show and they just happened to, they needed, you know, Jimmy Fallon had left, you know, Tina and that whole crew were kind of on their way out and Lauren needed some new,
Guest:blood and and i uh i got and so she said you're really funny and i said oh thank you and that was it and then i got a phone call i was working as an assistant editor on iron chef america and i got a phone call from lindsey shookis yeah who's you know in the talent department now runs talent department she said uh you know lauren michaels would like to meet you holy shit and you're like you're watching them cut uh you know like yeah bobby flay
Guest:You know, making some ragu thing.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, I can be up there.
Guest:I can get up to New York.
Guest:And so we went and Lauren met me and I had a really nice meeting with him.
Guest:And he said, do you know why you're here?
Guest:I said, yeah, Megan Mullally.
Guest:He goes, I was on a boat once and there was a guy on the boat being funny that the way he was being funny in the way that Bill Murray is funny.
Guest:And I thought to myself, I know Bill Murray.
Yeah.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:That was the whole meeting.
Guest:I'm not exaggerating.
Guest:That was the whole meeting.
Guest:I flew all the way up to New York.
Guest:He said, you know why you're here?
Guest:And he told me that story.
Guest:And it was like, get out.
Guest:And then I left and I told Mike Shoemaker, hey, that's what happened.
Guest:And he goes, oh, you should stick around for a couple of days.
Guest:Like, oh, that's good.
Marc:That's the beginning of a conversation.
Guest:That's the beginning of a conversation.
Guest:That was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I stuck around and then Lauren came to LA and saw our show.
Guest:With the sketch group.
Guest:With the sketch group.
Guest:And he knew that the house was packed with all of our friends because like- You knew he was coming?
Guest:We knew he was coming and the first- Howard Kramer opened for us and then we went out and we did a thing and the first thing I said, everyone-
Guest:went crazy and it was like and i think lauren was like ah these are all his buddies so lauren said screw this you guys have to come to new york so he flew wait wait wait so he saw the show he saw the show and he liked it yeah but he said you guys have to come he said that to you you guys have to come to new york for you do the show in new york for a new york audience you know where no one knows you can't fill it yeah and so we went in and i look out now cut to new york ucb theater on 26th street i look out the the original ucb with the weird
Guest:the seats yeah yeah it's underground and that's the weird yeah oh no no that's a new one right okay with all the pillars yeah yeah yeah the real low feelings yeah and so we went in and and and i look back and there's like amy poehler tina fay uh seth meyers like everyone just on a writing night it was during a show week going oh we have to go see this guy's show and uh i felt terrible and uh and so we went out for the first thing was there too
Guest:Lauren was there.
Guest:Oh, yeah, Lauren was there, Marcy Klein, Mike Shoemaker, and then a bunch of New York comedy people or improvisers going, you know, who the fuck are these guys from LA?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:This is our night.
Marc:This is our place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bobby Moynihan was in the audience.
Guest:I didn't know him then, but Bobby was there.
Guest:He said, he's like, yeah, a lot of people want to know who these...
Guest:LA guys yeah but they didn't know which guy it was so then we I came out so they brought all four of you out to look at you yeah and you knew that or they all knew that we all knew it and those guys to this day like my last show I called all of them and thanked them all because I was like they totally they knew that it was just for me but they were like yeah they're gonna look at Bill we gotta go do the show out there who are those guys now
Guest:Mel works at UCB and Matt, I think, moved to Illinois.
Guest:He got married and had kids.
Guest:And then Eric is in like every commercial now.
Guest:Anytime I see a commercial, Eric.
Guest:Phil Kowski.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:All right, so you do the show and it goes well?
Guest:it goes really we we do our first thing not getting laughs and then i did uh vinnie vadeci uh which i later i'm doing on the show and amy poehler laughed and it just calmed the whole room down because amy started laughing and i was like oh thank you amy and i don't know if i still this day i don't think she thought what i did was funny i think she was just like god let's help these guys out this is terrible
Guest:you know what i mean it was that quiet after the first no no no it was just it was like the first tense it was tense the whole situation is tense and so she's like i'm gonna laugh just to calm everybody down right right and uh it was i've never spoken to her about it but to this day i've been like thank you so much you know uh and we did a great show and everyone laughed and and uh it was legitimate and then naomi odenkirk is my manager
Guest:I went up to her afterwards and she goes, I think you're going to get the show because you won the room over, you know?
Guest:And then I had to do an actual audition.
Marc:So Naomi's still your manager?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sweet.
Marc:And I've known her for years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's Bob's wife and I'm glad.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So how'd you hook up with her though?
Marc:She signed you off of the sketch troupe here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A woman who worked for her, Mandy Kahn, was my friend.
Guest:I was a PA on a sketch, on a short that Bob did with Fred Armisen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Mandy was the other PA.
Guest:And then I just called her and I said, I'm going to go meet Laura Michaels.
Guest:And she went, oh, well, come in and talk to Naomi.
Guest:And maybe Naomi can help you with this.
Guest:Because I had no manager, no agent or anything.
Marc:You were still just a PA on another interview.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Fred was, and you didn't know Fred.
Guest:I picked Fred up from the airport and I didn't know, he didn't know me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Does he remember it?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I picked him up from the airport.
Guest:And I go, I was the PA that picked you up from the airport.
Guest:That was the first thing I said to him when I got SNL.
Guest:And he was like, oh.
Guest:And I learned real quick, oh, yeah, don't tell people you were the PA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He went, oh, okay.
Guest:That's weird.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Kid.
Guest:Hey, kiddo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they- So you do the show.
Guest:We do the show and it goes great.
Guest:And Naomi tells you he wants to meet you at the office or whatever.
Guest:He wants to, all right, we do that.
Guest:And then he says, I want to see you, I want you to do a real audition.
Guest:Like the official SNL audition.
Guest:In the studio on the camera.
Guest:In the studio on camera.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went up and I did that audition.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:I did Vinnie Vedeci.
Guest:And it's basically just ripping off Sid Caesar.
Guest:It's all Italian gibberish.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's just like people.
Guest:And I did it on the show a couple of times.
Guest:So I did that on my audition.
Guest:And then in that did just a bunch of impressions.
Marc:But in that audition, it's you in a box studio, and you know that people are watching it.
Marc:Was Lauren sitting in the office in the audience with Marcy?
Guest:Lauren sitting at a table with Marcy, Tina Fey, Andrew Steele, I think, was there.
Guest:And they tell you, you walk in, and they go, you're going first.
Guest:What was the first thing?
Guest:And I went, oh, okay.
Guest:I go out in the dressing room, working on my audition.
Guest:Was there other people waiting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I got there first.
Guest:Here's the thing.
Guest:I got there first, and there was another guy in the elevator with me with a ton of props.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm looking at him going, I didn't bring any props.
Guest:This guy has so many props.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was Andy Samberg.
Guest:That was the first time I met Andy Samberg.
Guest:And Andy later told me he was looking at me going, shit, that guy doesn't need props.
Guest:He's like, God, I brought all these props.
Guest:I'm such an asshole.
Yeah.
Guest:He might have a different take on the story, but that's why I remember.
Guest:And then we went, we left, I go in and they say, you're going first, Andy, you're going second.
Guest:Oh shit.
Guest:And so then I'm waiting, I go in, waiting, waiting, hour goes by, waiting, and then I look out and there's a ton of people auditioning.
Guest:They're all waiting to audition and the auditions have started.
Guest:I go, oh, they've started already?
Guest:And they go, yeah, we're on guy three.
Guest:You know, we're on the third person.
Guest:I was like, well, they told me I was first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now you're going to have to wait.
Guest:So the mind fuck began.
Guest:The mind fuck, immediately the mind fuck began.
Guest:And I was just like, oh, Jesus.
Guest:And so, and then I auditioned.
Guest:How long did you wait?
Guest:I waited and then a buddy of mine auditioned a really funny guy named Andrew Friedman who's at the Groundlings.
Guest:He auditioned and I went out just to kind of like hear his audition because we kind of helped each other with our auditions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Auditions.
Guest:And then he came out and then Chris Kelly, I now know him, he's a stage manager at SNL, grabbed my arm and he's in his mic and he goes, no, no, I got Bill Hader.
Guest:No, I got him right here.
Guest:okay you go right now come on let's go and i was like oh shit and there's no way to gauge how it's getting a reaction because there's nobody in there with them and it's them and it's quiet but like the amy thing i was doing in the middle and everyone was coming back going no one's laughing it's just quiet right not laughing giving you the heads up
Guest:Not a warm room.
Guest:Not a warm room.
Guest:It was very quiet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you go in, you slate yourself.
Guest:You're right on the mark where the host does the monologue.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you slate yourself to camera.
Guest:And then they said, all right, let's go.
Guest:And so I started my audition.
Guest:And the minute I went into the Vinny Videci voice, Tina Fey started laughing.
Guest:And it's great.
Guest:I've watched for the first time, Naomi Odenkirk has my audition on DVD.
Guest:And I watch it and you see it on my face.
Guest:She starts laughing.
Guest:And I just like get so calm.
Guest:And I'm like, boom.
Guest:I'm like so happy.
Guest:And then my audition was good.
Guest:Bob Odenkirk helped me on my audition.
Guest:He was really healthy.
Guest:He's like, make it short, like tight.
Guest:How many characters?
Guest:It was like five, six maybe things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was all impressions.
Guest:Peter Falk, James Mason.
Guest:And, oh, that morning they asked for a political thing.
Guest:And they go, we want a political impression, but it can't be George Bush.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I went on television and watched Tony Blair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then called my friend from the UK.
Guest:I go, all right, who's this?
Guest:And I did it.
Guest:And he's like, that's supposed to be Tony Blair.
Guest:And I was like, shh.
Guest:shit all right hold on it was like it was really tense and you called him back and said how about now how about now and he goes yeah all right you know it'll pass and i'm like okay now i have to write something for this i wrote some dumb tony blair thing yeah then we just went i just went and did it and then and then um i i felt really good about it and then uh two weeks later i i got i got the job but that was a rough two weeks or no
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, just from that, I got, you know, meetings to get like a... Now it was like, you're an actor now.
Guest:Naomi's like, I'm representing you.
Guest:We're going to talk to agencies, what agency you could go to and things like that.
Guest:And...
Guest:And then, yeah, I was at the newsroom cafe on Robertson.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And went to the bathroom.
Guest:I was having lunch with Naomi.
Guest:I went to the bathroom, came back, and she had her cell phone, and she just handed it to me.
Guest:And I was like, hello?
Guest:And it was Marcy Klein saying, hey, congratulations.
Guest:You got cast.
Guest:You need to be out here tomorrow.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Yeah.
Guest:And that began it.
Guest:And that began it, yeah.
Marc:How long did it take before you got Stefan and in?
Guest:Oh, Stefan was like six years.
Guest:I did not come out of the gate.
Guest:I had a really good first show where I did Al Pacino and Andy and I went on Update.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had a great first show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I, then it was very much, uh, the digital shorts happened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Kristen Wiig happened.
Guest:And I felt, I can't, I was very lucky with the cat, the class I came in with Andy, Kristen and Sudeikis and those people.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:And I just kind of, I felt like I went from kindergarten to Harvard, you know what I mean?
Guest:I didn't know what I was really doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For the first four years, I was like, they're going to come up to me and say, we made a giant mistake.
Guest:You got to go home.
Marc:Well, what was the feeling of anxiety?
Marc:I mean, you weren't just a performer they expect you to generate, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was never someone that could just self-generate.
Guest:I always needed to work with a writer.
Guest:And I did that for the most part.
Guest:the thing the turning point for me was so i did i had a good first show and then it slowly kind of declined and then by the end of my towards the end of my first season i mean i wasn't really doing much anything yeah and and it's you know what does that mean are you just sitting around or like you know you put in things you're like the second cop coming through the door as i think bill murray would always say it you know yeah but those are good you need to do those parts yeah you know right now i'm
Guest:happy i did all those things or you're like a starbucks customer right and uh or whatever and i would do that and was just trying to learn i was trying to learn how to write sketch comedy i was trying to learn how to write comedy right you know i didn't know how to write jokes right right i didn't know what the hell i was doing like everything i did was like more attitude you know and voices were you a fan of bill murray
Guest:I did like Bill Murray a lot.
Guest:Yeah, I loved Bill Murray.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you ever get to meet him?
Guest:I did meet him.
Guest:You just met him at SNL or what?
Guest:No, Jim Downey called me and was like, I'm watching a baseball game at this bar.
Guest:You should come over.
Guest:And I went over and Bill Murray was there.
Guest:And it was me and him and Bill Murray.
Guest:And then I texted Sudeikis like, get over to this bar right now.
Guest:I'm sitting here with Bill Murray.
Guest:So Jason kind of just dropped by like, hey, what's going on, guys?
Yeah.
Guest:And then we sat and talked to Bill Murray, and I told him, yeah, I'm the kind of second cop through the door thing.
Guest:And he was like, yeah, it was the same way, man.
Guest:You just got to get with the writers.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He was really, actually really nice.
Guest:And when was the big breakthrough?
Guest:probably the big thing actually mentally was i i did a show and i did a sketch and i felt like i didn't i didn't do a great job and i did i just was getting kind of i was really in my head and not knowing what i was doing right and i told bob odenkirk about it and he said go in and talk to lauren he said don't be afraid of him just go in and talk to him everyone's afraid of him like he goes i was afraid of him like just go talk to him yeah
Guest:And so I went in and just told Lauren, like, I don't know what you want from me.
Guest:Like, what should I do?
Guest:I'm like the new guy, but I was like really freaking out a little bit.
Guest:Like, what do you want me to do?
Guest:And he said, I just do what you do, what you're doing, you know?
Guest:And, um, but that kind of, I think after that, it was like, if we saw each other in the hallway, he would go, Hey Bill, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like, he was like, okay.
Guest:This guy wants to work with me and work with the show and is trying to figure it out.
Guest:And I think that was a big turning point.
Guest:And then doing the Vinny Videci show for the first time with Julie Louis-Dreyfus.
Guest:I remember when I did that at the table.
Guest:like some writers clapped in a way of like, oh, this guy really needs this.
Guest:Because I was trying a lot of stuff out of the table that was just falling on his face and bombing horribly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just couldn't figure it out.
Guest:And once that happened, I felt a little bit better.
Guest:And then I kind of sat back and looked.
Guest:This is where our cast is at.
Guest:Here's what everybody's doing.
Guest:it's like the a team where do i fit in right so i was like okay every week i'm just gonna bring in an impression piece because i'm kind of known as the impression person right so i'll just do impersonations and i'll do that and then what i learned was i would do a sketch that would bomb but then a writer would say hey that alan all the impression you did or that john malkovich thing or whatever i want to use it in my thing oh good we now know you can do that oh good yeah you know what i mean sure
Guest:And so it was a little bit like learning.
Guest:And then over time, I got a little bit better.
Guest:And then my fourth season at an after party, Lauren pulled me aside and said, you know, you can work here as long as you want.
Guest:Like, chill the fuck out.
Guest:You are so uptight.
Guest:Will you please calm down?
Guest:You got the job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go have fun.
Guest:Will you start having fun, please?
Guest:So you're the uptight guy.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:I was very... I still... I get very nervous.
Guest:I have major stage fright or whatever.
Guest:But in front of people or all the time?
Guest:Like on movie sets as well?
Guest:Not on movie sets.
Guest:Just in front of a live television audience.
Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It gets really nerve wracking.
Guest:So that's what worked when I did Stefan for the first time because I got to just do that nervousness.
Guest:You get to play the nervousness.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:In a way that was really helpful.
Marc:And that character is hugely popular.
Guest:Yeah, but that didn't come until way, way later.
Guest:You did eight seasons?
Guest:Eight seasons, yeah.
Guest:And I think Stefan, we did it for the first time at the end of my fifth season.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a long learning curve.
Marc:But I think it's interesting at four years when he finally just sort of went in and talked to Lorne.
Marc:Because from what I gather, he's a guy that you could sort of...
Marc:you know, project any of your fears onto.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, you just wander around in the shadow of this man who everyone's afraid to talk to making assumptions, you know, without sort of what you just said, realizing it's like, he's just trying to make the show.
Guest:He's trying to make the show work.
Marc:He's like, I got to make this person.
Marc:He's not worrying about Bill.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's not like, you know, how Bill's happy.
Marc:Like, it's very easy to think that.
Marc:All he's doing is sitting around thinking like, why did I hire that guy?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And what it was is just like, yeah, relax.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Trying to, got a lot of things going on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We got a, we have an election.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't give a fuck about you.
Guest:Will you just do something funny and have fun, please?
Guest:And it is.
Guest:And you get... What I learned about Warren is that he really is just a huge comedy fan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One of the most telling moments I had with him was...
Guest:there was a show i think tina fey hosted and steve martin came on and did a bit in it and i had a moment with lauren and steve martin and we started talking about comedy albums yeah and lauren and lit up in a way that was i hadn't seen where i was like oh yeah you just love this shit he loves what was he talking about early lenny bruce before he got political right and like he and steve martin doing the whole album you know doing bits from the album and
Guest:And I still have it.
Guest:Like they were, had a napkin.
Guest:They're writing down the albums I needed to go get.
Guest:And some of them were like the Nichols and May one, which I had.
Guest:And, um, Tom Lear, uh, Tom Lear, Tom Lear, Tom Lear, which I never got music.
Guest:Um, Richard Pryor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They, I mean, they just talked about Richard Pryor a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just how good Richard Pryor was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Steve Martin said, yeah, he's like Richard Pryor was like, yeah, that guy was.
Guest:Did they give a reason?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they just talked about his joke and how he was just different and what he brought to it.
Marc:Yeah, so much vulnerability to the thing.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And what Steve Martin was doing and what Richard Pryor was doing.
Guest:It was just interesting hearing him talk about him.
Guest:But that night, it was when I was like, oh yeah, you were just a big fan guy.
Guest:And they were quoting like Monty Python, oh, Beyond the Fringe, that was a big one.
Marc:Oh really?
Guest:Beyond the Fringe album and how great that was.
Marc:It's amazing to see these guys as people or as fans in general.
Guest:Yeah, and just watching them as fans made me go,
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:I get it now.
Marc:They're just guys who like this.
Guest:They just love this.
Marc:And he just decided- Just billionaires having a nice time.
Guest:Yeah, they're throwing money at each other.
Guest:No, but hearing Lauren, I go, oh yeah, you just love this.
Guest:And you're like, yeah, I'm going to just make the show about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's pretty fascinating that now he sort of owns-
Marc:He's got the Tonight Show.
Marc:It's a fascinating thing with that guy to me.
Marc:He just kind of hangs out, and he does this thing, and it's like, okay, I have the Tonight Show now.
Guest:Oh, the Tonight Show.
Guest:It's show business.
Guest:He loves show business.
Marc:Yeah, and did you read that Late Shift thing, that late night, the Battle for Late Night?
Marc:No, the Bill Carter book?
Marc:Yeah, about, not the Late Shift, but about the Conan...
Marc:Oh, no, I haven't.
Marc:Tonight Show thing.
Marc:It's pretty fascinating because he's a real part of it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Lauren is.
Marc:Lauren comes off as this Buddha in there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's this story he tells about meeting an executive at GE when he was thinking about leaving or when he did leave.
Marc:Oh, in the 80s.
Marc:And the executive is like, you know, the network will always be here.
Marc:You guys come and go.
Marc:But the network, you know,
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:We're not going anymore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it had resonated with him.
Marc:He never quite realized that because you get sort of caught up with this sort of like, we're doing a thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Another guy will do a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It seemed to really kind of like show him the world in a different way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:It is.
Marc:It's just, that's the universe.
Guest:And you feel like, and you feel like Lauren with you as a young person, he really does like to help you with that.
Guest:Like he really legitimately cares about your career and what the choices you're making even after you leave the show, you know, he kind of wants to, you know, make sure that you're doing.
Marc:Did he do that with you?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What have you got planned?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:Why am I seeing you in T-Mobile commercials?
Guest:Oh, did he say that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In a funny way, yeah, but it was like, what are those?
Marc:I saw you and I said the same thing.
Guest:Yeah, I liked them.
Guest:I was like, I thought these would be funny.
Marc:There's no shame in it, but it's sort of like, it's interesting about commercials where it has a stigma thing.
Guest:I called a couple of buddies before I did it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, should I do these?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It could be funny.
Guest:good money and do it.
Guest:And, um, one friend said, I don't know if like with this generation of selling out as a thing, but no, that's true.
Guest:As long as you can represent yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I don't know if it's a thing.
Guest:It doesn't have that stigma of like when, you know, for us doing a commercials, like, Oh,
Marc:But I guess the thought is sort of like people would think like, well, Bill Hader's past that.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I decided I just I don't know.
Guest:I don't put a lot of thought into this.
Guest:And then I was like, I'll just go do it.
Guest:And then I did that.
Guest:I was like, oh, everything's fine.
Guest:And then.
Guest:I did the Reddit ask me anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Good times.
Guest:And, uh, it's a lot of like, why am I seeing you these stupid fucking commercials?
Guest:And I was like, all right, fair buddy.
Marc:It's totally fair, buddy.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Lesson learned.
Guest:No, yeah, I get it, buddy.
Guest:No, I, I, but I, I like them.
Guest:I think they're fun.
Guest:So you have two kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're all out here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you get yourself a house?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're in a house.
Guest:You bought one?
Guest:We rented one.
Guest:Where?
Guest:On the west side of town.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so we're looking to buy, but anywhere else.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Anywhere.
Guest:And we'll probably stay in the west side.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:We'd like to, but we're looking to buy in other places.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:When you have kids, it's all about schools.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And room.
Marc:And room.
Marc:And you buy yourself a Camry.
Marc:I'm very impressed.
Marc:Drove up in a Camry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was a new black Camry, but it was a Camry.
Marc:Sensible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Camry hybrid.
Marc:Which I respect a great deal.
Marc:No limo for Bill Hader.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No car where you got out and looked nervous.
Marc:It's gonna be all right here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's gonna be.
Marc:Where are we?
Marc:But I don't, like, I can't get, you seem like a practical person.
Marc:I can't get into, like, I don't know how to spend money.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I don't like to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And with cars, it's like, I don't, it's gonna get fucked up.
Guest:Yeah, I don't understand that anytime I see someone in a really nice car, I get into a friend's car that's like crazy nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I do.
Guest:It is.
Marc:Where do you put this?
Guest:I would be freaked out the whole time.
Guest:I'm like, you're going to ding this up.
Guest:We're driving and everyone wants to kill us.
Marc:That's what I think.
Guest:Everyone wants to carjack us right now.
Marc:Yeah, most people spend this on a house.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:I was like, we can't drive anywhere.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:yeah i was like this is terrible so what's uh so you've been here three weeks what what what what is the entry into la been what have there been meetings have you been yeah a little bit i mean we just my wife did a movie with arby plaza called the to-do list so we were promoting that a lot and then who's your wife maggie carey okay um so you're both actors
Guest:No, she wrote and directed a movie.
Guest:Oh, that's better.
Guest:Yeah, she wrote and directed the movie.
Guest:Good, good.
Guest:Yeah, good.
Marc:I was concerned for a minute.
Guest:I should have done a little more research, but... No, I'm fine.
Marc:No, this is good.
Marc:So maybe she'll fit you into something.
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Guest:Hopefully she'll write me into another movie.
Guest:It'd be fantastic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I would love that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've been doing what?
Marc:You're going to go on... What are you going to do?
Marc:What are you going to do here?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:We'll find out.
Marc:Well, you don't got a movie coming up or what's going on?
Guest:No, maybe.
Guest:Oh, Kristen Wiig and I did a movie called The Skeleton Twins.
Guest:It was a drama.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:A drama?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:It was a good.
Guest:When's that come out?
Guest:I think, well, hopefully they're trying to get into festivals right now, but it's Kristen Wiig, the Duplass brothers produced it and this guy Craig Johnson wrote and directed it.
Guest:Me and Kristen, Ty Burrell, Luke Wilson.
Guest:It was a great cast.
Guest:Little, like the to-do list, my wife's movie is like a million dollar movie.
Guest:But it was really fulfilling just to do this thing.
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:Kristen calling me going, hey, so you're doing this?
Guest:This is different.
Guest:We play twins, estranged twins.
Guest:I'm her gay twin brother.
Guest:And I moved back in with her.
Guest:And it's in her hometown.
Guest:And it's good.
Guest:It's a very, I'm hearing it's good.
Guest:We're going to see it in a couple of weeks.
Guest:Do you find that, is it easier to do straight?
Guest:I liked it.
Guest:I really enjoyed doing it just because it was different.
Guest:It was kind of a mind fuck because you would do these straight scenes, you know, like you said, you know, these dramatic scenes.
Guest:And then it was, I did it during the SNL season.
Guest:So I would do that and then you'd go and Martin Short was hosting the show and you would go and,
Guest:And then have to do sketch comedy with Martin Short.
Guest:So it was a very, like, getting your head around it a little bit.
Guest:Well, yeah, and you've got to go way up to do sketch comedy.
Guest:Martin Short is, like, the funniest human being on the planet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just being with him.
Guest:I'm like, okay, you're, like, finite comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Everything he says.
Guest:And he's the nicest guy in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Such a sweet dude.
Marc:When you do straight acting, do you...
Marc:Because when you do a voice or you do a thing for broad comedy or just a comedy type, how do you approach the straight acting?
Marc:Do you do a voice?
Marc:Are you conscious of that?
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:It's really just working with a director and saying, is this too much?
Guest:What do you want?
Guest:And kind of saying... He was saying, yeah, the character's...
Guest:the character i play is gay but you know that's not you don't have to play gay you know and so it was that you know it was very nice to um uh you know work with him on the character i've never done that before and going through the script and kind of the opposite of the advice i was giving you before i mean it's a version of know your lines and kind of know what the emotion is right um but then intuitively i'm gonna sound pompous as shit but the two of you kind of losing yourself in it a
Guest:yeah well i mean yeah it's hard you know no matter who i talk to about acting it's it does ultimately come down to intuition intuition and completely um just like again going back to the thing of not caring about like doing like making an idiot out of yourself right and fucking up right and knowing everybody fucks up and goes too far and you know i would do takes in the movie and kind of look at the director and go what do you think i could tell he was like
Guest:Yeah, that was a little much, but you're trying shit.
Guest:But I'm realizing a good director creates that space of like, yeah, try that.
Guest:And let's dial it back a little bit.
Guest:But that was a good idea.
Guest:Or let's go this way.
Guest:And so it's just collaborating with people.
Guest:And Kristen Wiig is so great in the movie and so good to collaborate with and is really there with you.
Guest:And you have a chemistry preceding this.
Guest:So that was nice playing brother and sister.
Guest:We've known each other for eight years and worked with each other a lot.
Guest:So it was really great.
Guest:That goes a long way, having a dynamic with somebody already.
Guest:Oh, man, I can't tell you.
Guest:You just felt very secure going, well, I'm going to do this crazy thing.
Guest:And her being there, I don't know if I would.
Guest:go to another you never know but it was fun having those conversations where um i love doing comedy but it's just like it was just a different it's just a different conversation absolutely you know well thanks for talking to me man thanks for having me and now like now i'm gonna set you loose to drive to the west side at rush hour
Marc:Motherfucker.
Marc:I know, man.
Marc:Just gonna take that new car out.
Marc:You're gonna really get to know that new car.
Marc:You're gonna sit there in the air conditioner and say things like, yeah, this is a good choice, a hybrid.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:You'll find that's the only thing that you're not gonna like about Los Angeles is what you're gonna have to go through when you leave my house.
Marc:Okay, good.
Guest:Traffic.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Everything else is pretty good.
Guest:I like everything else so far, but that's what everyone tells me.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:It seems hackneyed, but it really gets to a point where you're like, why?
Marc:Why is it...
Marc:Like this all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where are you guys going?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Shouldn't people be home already?
Marc:What are all you doing right now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That'll have variations involving cuss words and different levels of anger.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At least I'm by myself and I don't have the kids in the car.
Marc:That makes it way worse.
Marc:No reason to ruin childhoods over a traffic jam.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Isn't he a fucking nice guy?
Marc:He is, right?
Marc:God damn, man.
Marc:Had a nice time with that fella.
Marc:I would like to have him over more often, just to hang out and talk with that guy.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:And here's something that, I don't know if you know this, I don't know how long you've been listening to the show, but do you have the WTF app?
Marc:It's the fastest, easiest way to get every episode of WTF.
Marc:The WTF app is free for all your mobile devices.
Marc:You'll get the newest episode as soon as it's ready to download.
Marc:And the most recent 50 episodes are always on there.
Marc:And if you want to upgrade to the premium app, you get access to every single episode of WTF.
Marc:That's 400 plus episodes.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com and click on the WTF app link or go to your preferred app store and get the WTF app.
Marc:Also, WTFPod.com.
Marc:There's some new merch.
Marc:There's shit.
Marc:There's stuff.
Marc:Oh, that reminds me.
Marc:I got to get those posters from Chicago.
Marc:A guy up there does these great posters.
Marc:Put them up there.
Marc:Leave a comment.
Marc:Do what you got to do.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Can you do that?
Guest:I'm going on vacation, man.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Maybe I will never come back.
Guest:That'd be hilarious.
Guest:I'm not going far.
Guest:I'm probably already back by the time you listen to me.
Guest:Boomer lives!