Episode 409 - Judy Gold
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fuckalupaguses?
Marc:What the fuckids?
Marc:It's me, Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:Today on the show, a very thrilling and electrifying and amazing guest, a woman who I love dearly.
Marc:Judy Gold is in the garage.
Marc:Did I just almost say studio?
Marc:Have I become, am I that guy?
Marc:Now my garage is a studio.
Marc:It's a garage.
Marc:I almost said studio.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:Wow, I'm getting lofty.
Marc:I'm getting I don't know if I'd say cocky, but for a second there, I almost said in my studio, this is the garage.
Marc:It's always the garage.
Marc:It has microphones as a table doesn't look like the inside of a garage.
Marc:Really, it never has.
Marc:I guess it is my studio.
Marc:But that doesn't have the same ring.
Marc:The garage, man.
Marc:A studio?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's a garage.
Marc:Judy and I were comics together in New York.
Marc:She's always been... We have an odd relationship.
Marc:She is a tall Jewish lesbian with an incredibly outgoing, bordering on intimidating personality.
Marc:And I am a normal-sized, aggravated Jewish straight man.
Marc:And we... Not that I'm stereotyping or classifying in any way.
Marc:Her and I have always had a very specific dynamic.
Marc:A very specific dynamic that I think you'll hear in this episode of WTF.
Marc:She is here in Los Angeles.
Marc:If you are in Los Angeles, her one-woman show, The Judy Show, My Life as a Sitcom, is at the Audrey Skirball Kennes Theater at the Geffen Playhouse through August 18th.
Marc:Go see it because Judy is a powerhouse.
Marc:I mean it.
Marc:Very enjoyable.
Marc:Very adorable.
Marc:She's aggressively adorable.
Marc:I wonder what she'd think if I said that.
Marc:Aggressively adorable.
Marc:Incredibly funny Judy Gold will be here momentarily.
Marc:As for me...
Marc:If you care about my whereabouts, tonight I am flying to Montreal.
Marc:Tomorrow, July 26th at the Montreal Just for Laughs Comedy Festival.
Marc:I'm doing a live WTF at the Hyatt Regency Grand Salon Opera Ballroom or Showroom.
Marc:That's going to feature, as of right now, Eddie Izzard, Trevor Noah.
Marc:And now I'm waiting on a couple other ones.
Marc:Maybe Rich Hall.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:We'll see, but those are pretty big names so far.
Marc:It's going to be a fun show.
Marc:I've never talked to Eddie.
Marc:I've never talked to Trevor.
Marc:Powerhouse.
Marc:That's my word, I guess.
Marc:Mighty might be another word.
Marc:Tomorrow night in Montreal, I will be at the Comedy Works for a short set because I'm rehearsing for my gala with Sarah Silverman.
Marc:Also, the midnight show with Opie and Anthony, the midnight surprise I'll be doing tomorrow night, Friday.
Marc:I'll also be doing the alternative show tomorrow night with Andy Kindler.
Marc:That's also a midnight show on Saturday.
Marc:I will be doing a book signing at Drawn in Quarterly in Montreal.
Marc:I will be doing a headlining set of my own, a solo show at 9.30 p.m.
Marc:at the Place des Arts.
Marc:And then I'll be doing an 11 o'clock gala with Sarah Silverman.
Marc:And then again, the alternative show at midnight on Saturday with Andy Kindler.
Marc:So that's a big bunch of things to do in Montreal.
Marc:If you're up there next week, I will be at the Main Stage Theater.
Marc:in chicago illinois thursday friday saturday and sunday is that right geez it is it's a long run great theater come out for that i'm very excited about that and i think there will be books for sale at that show if you're interested in that kind of thing can i read you something though can i read you something look
Marc:I'm going to do this today because it had an effect on me.
Marc:And as some of you know, I don't I'm not as thorough as I as I might need to be when I talk about things or when I talk to people.
Marc:Many times I make reference to things that I don't know about or that I'm a little off about, but I'm certainly not in the business of hurting people's feelings or making things difficult for other people.
Marc:or even causing anybody anxiety for that matter.
Marc:Look, if you sit there and you listen to me go like, oh, come on, Maren, you fucking knew that.
Marc:Are you kidding me?
Marc:You didn't know that, Maren?
Marc:And, you know, it's a general thing that everybody knows.
Marc:That's one thing.
Marc:But, you know, in terms of people that are struggling to do their thing and put their mark on the world and express themselves, I certainly am not in the business of making it difficult for them.
Marc:For instance, someone, I got a couple of emails, honestly, I guess this is an apology.
Marc:Today's apology day.
Marc:I guess a few sculptors got their feelings hurt because of my David Sedaris interview.
Marc:I condescended or trivialized the art of sculpture.
Marc:Look, I love sculpture.
Marc:I stand before sculptures.
Marc:I'm not against sculptures.
Marc:I apologize for condescending sculpture.
Marc:I know it's a tough life.
Marc:It's a tough thing to commit your life to, but if your heart leads you there, good for you.
Marc:I hope you find your true expression in sculpture, and I will enjoy it if I come upon it.
Marc:I don't walk by sculptures and go, what the fuck is that?
Marc:I know what the fuck it is.
Marc:I may not understand what the fuck it is, but I do take in and allow the impact to happen.
Marc:So this is just a general apology to sculptors out there.
Marc:I am sorry.
Marc:I did not mean to trivialize or condescend your chosen mode of expression.
Marc:Power on, carve, chisel, shape, screw, nail, mold, weld.
Marc:Use small knives and glue.
Marc:Do whatever you do.
Marc:Put things together with rope.
Marc:Organic.
Marc:Let it hang.
Marc:Hang some things.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:I appreciate your art, and it's a tough road to sculpt and power to you.
Marc:By the way, my IFC show has been picked up.
Marc:We're doing another season of Marin on IFC.
Marc:We are doing 13 episodes this time around.
Marc:The work begins very soon.
Marc:I'm going to be back in that.
Marc:i couldn't be more excited i want to do it better i want to do it uh more funny i want to you know i really want to knock it out of the park and i don't use baseball analogies very often i am going to be very busy for the next few months because we got to get the crew back together we got to write 13 episodes and then we got to get the we got to see if we can get the same house that we rented we got to see if we can get some of the same actors we got we got to figure out you know where we're going and what we're doing but
Marc:I couldn't be more fucking excited.
Marc:So if you didn't hear that through other sources, I am doing another episode of the show Marin for IFC.
Marc:I want to thank IFC and thank everybody over there for having the faith and supporting me and being into doing another bunch of episodes.
Marc:I got to deliberate.
Marc:I got to figure out what parts of my life am I going to fictionalize and elevate and what parts I shouldn't do that with.
Marc:I'm going to have to ask my fiance about that.
Marc:Yeah, some of those episodes might have caused me a little strain at home.
Marc:But that's something to look forward to.
Marc:If you're into my show, that's coming back.
Marc:Now, back to this letter.
Marc:During the Iggy Pop interview, I made reference to the original Stooges getting back together.
Marc:And I made reference to James Williamson, who was one of the original guitar players on some of the Stooges albums.
Marc:And I talked about a band that, you know, James Williamson was doing a tech job and he retired early and he got his chops back together.
Marc:He got his playing legs back with a band who I referred to as a Iggy, as a Stooges cover band.
Marc:Now, my friend Jack Bowler had written an article on this band and I and I'd read the article and but I didn't put it together that they weren't a Stooges covers band.
Marc:They were doing Stooges covers to help James Williamson, you know, get his chops back to help a a rock legend get comfortable with the songs and the guitar playing again so he could go on tour with Iggy Pop.
Marc:Now, I got a letter.
Marc:from a member of that band who are not, I repeat, not a Stooges cover band, but the letter had a perspective in it that I think that some of my listeners, and I'm talking to you, will appreciate.
Marc:The band is called Careless Hearts.
Marc:And they've been around for a while.
Marc:Let me just read you this letter because he was diplomatic, but I got the message.
Marc:The subject line is Iggy and the mind fuck of history.
Marc:Hey, Mark, love the Iggy Pop interview.
Marc:I've been listening to your podcast for years.
Marc:It was great to see you land this one from your wish list.
Marc:But something came up in your interview with Iggy that sent my brain spiraling backwards in a way that I suspect you might understand or maybe even relate to.
Marc:So I read that and I'm like, oh, shit, I'm in.
Marc:You and Iggy covered a lot of ground together at the end of getting into his recent reconnection with guitarist James Williamson.
Marc:In doing so, you alluded to something with which I am intimately familiar.
Marc:The band that James practiced with prior to rejoining the Stooges was my band in San Jose.
Marc:We're called Careless Hearts.
Marc:The story of how we wound up playing with James is a great one, and Jack Boulware wrote about it in some detail for an in-flight mag back when it all went down.
Marc:I know Jack is a friend of both of ours, and it's my guess that's how you knew about all that having happened.
Marc:We are not, as you said in the interview, a Stooges cover band.
Marc:We'd been writing our own songs and doing our own thing as a group for about four years before we ever met James Williamson.
Marc:But setting the record straight on that point is not at all why I'm writing.
Marc:Totally not a big deal.
Marc:That's what he said.
Marc:But I'm starting to glean that that may not be completely true.
Marc:But now I'm in and I feel like I've done someone a disservice.
Marc:Back to the letter.
Marc:The night we played a show with James Williamson standing in for him as Erzat Stooges so that he could get his stage legs before heading reuniting with his band, that was a night none of us will ever forget.
Marc:As a lover of the Stooges since I was a teenager, it is one of the greatest moments of my musical career, a fan's dream come true.
Marc:James' sound is so fucking distinctive, and to hear it coming from over my right shoulder on stage and to feel the power of his musical personality at such close range...
Marc:It was like nothing I'll ever experience again.
Marc:And that's not even getting into the giddy fun that we had for a month of rehearsals preceding that moment.
Marc:He even brought Funhouse sax player Steve McKay along too, simply mind-blowing.
Marc:I knew, however, even before the afterglow from that moment of performance had completely faded away that we as a band had just stepped into someone else's story and not as lead characters, but as very minor players.
Marc:We became a footnote in the story of James Williamson.
Marc:In that amazing night, our brief connection to the star power of the Stooges completely overloaded the circuit that had been powering our two albums in, trying to build a fan base, a little old band.
Marc:As a singer and songwriter for the group, I think it fucked me up the most.
Marc:Our ambition as a band has always been both extremely modest and ambitious at the same time.
Marc:To play it for the long haul, to work toward getting so good that will be impossible to ignore, but footnote...
Marc:The word banged around in my head in the crappiest of ways for seriously about two years.
Marc:Is that really all we could ever hope to be?
Marc:I started to feel like our greatest moment so far might wind up being the greatest moment we'd ever have, built entirely on someone else's frame.
Marc:I didn't know how to make sense of what we'd just gone through.
Marc:all the really nice recognition and sincere accolades we got for being a one-show-only Stooges cover band, like a python swallowing a whole goat.
Marc:It's taken us some time to digest what our footnote moment really meant.
Marc:We kept writing, we kept playing, and eventually pushing this thing damn uphill started to make sense to me again.
Marc:For one thing, I started writing songs that incorporated what we learned from James Williamson.
Marc:Careless Hearts, before playing with James, was an old 97-slash-Steve Earl axis, well to the countryside of the rock spectrum.
Marc:But playing a full set of Stooges songs helped me reconnect with the ecstatic current of full-on rock, and that made me want to write more songs in that vein.
Marc:Not everyone who was in the band at that point agreed, unsurprisingly.
Marc:So it has taken us a while to find a new voice, one that makes sense in the new reality of our band and moment, but I think we're finally getting there.
Marc:We're back again on the slow climb out of mediocrity and obscurity, but I think we've got a better chance of creating something of real value now.
Marc:True or not, I have to believe that, and I do.
Marc:Squaring who we are now as 30-40-something adults playing rock and roll and having it not be some kind of a joke, we owe a lot to what bands like Iggy and the Stooges are showing us is still possible.
Marc:The way I see it, we had a moment where the light of public attention shined on us, and we were simply not yet good enough for anything lasting to have come of it.
Marc:If you don't learn from shit like that, well, then I guess you don't deserve to.
Marc:It's hard to hold yourself up against legends for comparison, but people are choosing from the entire history of recorded music every time they put something on.
Marc:You have to take that seriously or you don't stand a chance.
Marc:I'm sure the same is true in comedy, painting or whatever.
Marc:And I might add sculpture.
Marc:Anyway, hearing that moment of your interview with Iggy brought a lot of that initial anxiety and neurosis slamming right back into my head.
Marc:I thought you might appreciate the story.
Marc:I've really enjoyed the way you uncover the inner lives of creative folks on your show, so sharing a little of mine with you felt pretty natural.
Marc:Careless Hearts did just record a brand new album, release date still TBD.
Marc:I'll keep you posted.
Marc:All my best, man.
Marc:Still totally love your show.
Marc:Paul.
Marc:Paul Kimball from the Careless Hearts.
Marc:You know, it's hard to do what we do.
Marc:It's hard to do what you want to do creatively.
Marc:And like I said to Paul, I certainly didn't want to cause you any surus, as we say in Yiddish, as I slowly ease into the Judy Gold portion of this show.
Marc:But good luck with the band.
Marc:I hope this new album is great.
Marc:Let me know when it's out.
Marc:And man, I am sorry.
Marc:You are not a Stooges cover band.
Marc:You are the Careless Hearts from San Jose, and you will rock, and you will transcend.
Marc:All right?
Marc:That's my vote of confidence, Paul.
Marc:Now back to the rest of yous.
Marc:What else do I want to say about Judy Gold?
Marc:She's got nachos.
Marc:That's what we say.
Marc:That's what we say.
Marc:I think I'm actually getting Jewier.
Marc:Let's go now to my conversation with Judy Gold.
Marc:You good?
Marc:Will you pull that right into your face?
Marc:Yeah, and I'll pull something out.
Marc:It's already starting.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:The weird, aggravated sexual tension of Mark Maron and Judy Gold.
Guest:Don't you need a big lesbian on your show?
Marc:You mean on the IFC show?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, you need a big... Yeah, I have no problem with it.
Marc:I mean, if we're going to do more, there's going to be 13, and I have no problem.
Marc:What do you think the episode would be?
Marc:Can you pitch it to me?
Guest:Yeah, let me think.
Marc:You decide you're angry, and you're like, all right, I'm going to make out with Mark Maron.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I have to make out with someone angrier than me.
Guest:Because that, you know, that'll turn me on.
Guest:And then it doesn't turn me on.
Marc:No, it doesn't work.
Marc:And then maybe I fall in love with you.
Guest:Yes, yes, you fall in love with me.
Marc:And I'm like, she's the only woman for me.
Guest:Right, because she's so angry and miserable.
Marc:And she's not attracted to me.
Marc:That's why I love her even more.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And I become obsessed.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:That's perfect.
Marc:So wait.
Marc:So now this this is the new show you're doing the live.
Marc:This is a live theater show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm at the Geffen.
Guest:I'm doing the Judy show.
Guest:My life as a sitcom, which ran in New York.
Guest:And then now we're in at the Geffen.
Marc:And how are the audiences over there?
Marc:Do people come out in Los Angeles?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I can't believe it.
Marc:How big of a theater is it?
Guest:Our theater, we're in the smaller theater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's about 127 seats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's pretty much packed every night.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That's perfect amount of people for anything.
Guest:They do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They do make an announcement that, you know, if you are using an assisted hearing device, you must shut it off.
Guest:So that is the one most annoying.
Guest:And then like, I'll be on stage and I'll hear.
Guest:And I'm like, oh God, it's so annoying.
Marc:When it starts whistling or feeding back.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:who's i just wish i was with oh monty hall i went over to monty hall's house oh we did that benefit for remember we did that benefit that he hosted i wish i'd known that when i went there because that's all he does is benefits and yeah that's what he's now like he's one of these guys that is one contribution to culture is let's make a deal he's got a good backstory but for the last 50 years it's like i do charity that's what i do charity's my job i'm giving a lot back
Guest:And why did you go to his house?
Marc:Are you friends?
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:I'm going to make Monty Hall sweep over here?
Guest:All right.
Guest:Oh, you went to his house to do a podcast.
Marc:No, I'm not just hanging out with Monty Hall.
Guest:Oh, all right.
Guest:Well, it sounded like you were like, oh, I went to Monty Hall and we were hanging out.
Guest:He was like, hey, hey, do you have a paper clip in your bag?
Marc:Yeah, I tried to surprise him with a new costume every time I go to his house for brunch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is he not?
Guest:He's nice.
Guest:Monty, it's a cowboy hat.
Guest:What door do I want?
Guest:What do I get?
Hey.
Marc:No, actually what happened was his grandson contacted me and he's like, you got to talk to my grandfather.
Marc:He's got a great story.
Marc:It's Monty Hall.
Marc:And I'm like,
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:What has Monty Hall done?
Marc:He means, let's make a deal.
Marc:I'm like, but is that something?
Marc:Yeah, it is something.
Marc:I mean, it is.
Marc:But it turns out, he had a very interesting story.
Marc:I don't know why we're talking about this.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:He grew up as a Jew.
Guest:What?
Guest:That's disgusting.
Marc:In Winnipeg.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:My rabbi, when I was growing up in New Jersey, was from Winnipeg.
Guest:There's a lot of Jews in Winnipeg.
Guest:David Steinberg's from Winnipeg.
Marc:He's a Jew.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:There's a lot of Canadian Jews.
Marc:They're different, though.
Marc:They don't seem to have the same... There's no...
Marc:And there's no like... Right, it's not like... Yeah, like Michael Rotenberg is a Jew, David Steinberg is like the least aggravated Jew in the world.
Marc:The name should have some punch.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:Whereas how come it's not coming out of his mouth like I understand it.
Guest:Because they don't wake up in the morning with a voice going, you suck, you suck, you suck, you suck.
Guest:I hate you, I hate you, I hate you.
Marc:Or you're going to get sick, you're going to get sick and not be able to pay for it.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I thought that was only mine.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I remember when I first started doing stand-up,
Marc:What year was that, Judy?
Guest:Well, the first time I ever did it.
Guest:You started like the same time, right?
Marc:Right.
Guest:But I did it in college in about 1982.
Guest:What college?
Guest:Rutgers.
Guest:My father went to Rutgers.
Guest:Really?
Marc:CBT.
Guest:Really?
Marc:That was a sad trip down memory lane when I drove him.
Marc:He wanted to go look at Jersey City where he grew up and I'm like, just stay in the car.
Marc:And then we go out to Rutgers to his fraternity house and he's wandering around looking for a picture with him and it was tragic.
Guest:Jersey City's nice now, though.
Marc:That wasn't at that time.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you're at Rutgers.
Marc:What do you major in at Rutgers?
Guest:I major in music at Rutgers.
Marc:Doing what?
Marc:Singing?
Guest:No, piano and clarinet.
Guest:I played clarinet in the orchestra, but I was basically piano and, you know, like a general music major.
Guest:Like I thought I would teach music.
Marc:You wanted to be a music teacher?
Guest:Shut up.
Guest:My parents wanted me to be a music teacher.
Marc:There's still time.
Guest:Oh, please shut up.
Guest:My parents wanted me to be a music teacher.
Guest:What did your parents do?
Guest:Who decides that?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:What Jews say we would- Judith, you should be a teacher.
Guest:I've come from a whole family of teachers.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You should be a teacher.
Guest:Teaching, teaching, teaching.
Guest:My grandmother was a teacher.
Guest:My aunt, my cousins.
Guest:Your mother?
Guest:My mother was a secretary.
Marc:Your father?
Guest:He was a tax attorney.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:CPA and lawyer.
Marc:That's some exciting stuff.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Fascinating.
Guest:And he wrote the tax laws for the state of New Jersey, so it's even more.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yes, the book.
Marc:Your friends must say, can I come to dinner at your house just for your father's story?
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:Really incredible.
Guest:Are they both still alive?
Guest:Exciting.
Guest:No.
Guest:My father's dead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He died swimming laps in 1990.
Guest:God.
Guest:Where, at the house?
Guest:No, at the swim club.
Guest:I hated that fucking swim club.
Guest:Florida, where?
Guest:No, I was in... They never left New Jersey?
Guest:In New Jersey, yeah.
Guest:So I hated going there because I was not popular and all the bitchy, asshole, cunty girls were there.
Marc:Were you on a swim team?
Guest:No, but my mother was like, Judith, come to the swim club.
Guest:Come to the swim club.
Guest:You gotta come to the... And I'm like, I hate everyone.
Guest:I have to walk around in a fucking bathing suit?
Guest:No, I'm not going to the swim club.
Guest:So, and then of course he dies at the swim club.
Guest:And then, um, my mother's 91 in August and she is in the Hebrew home for the agent in Somerset, New Jersey.
Guest:Really?
Marc:The Hebrew home for the agent?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Cause she's Jewy, Jewman, Jewbill.
Marc:Do you go over there?
Guest:All the time.
Marc:Really?
Marc:How are the other people?
Marc:That must be a nonstop entertainment.
Guest:I have to tell you.
Yeah.
Guest:There are some really interesting characters there.
Guest:And they have really great stories.
Guest:A lot of Holocaust survivors and everything.
Marc:Those are hilarious.
Guest:Oh, and the Auschwitz.
Marc:Look at my number.
Guest:You can still see my number.
Guest:Oh, God, I'm hungry.
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:I'm not hungry.
Marc:I play the number on my arm in the lottery every week.
Guest:But they're interesting.
Guest:I mean, I went there.
Guest:Why?
Marc:It's dark.
Marc:Like a Holocaust survivor playing the number from the tap two and the lottery.
Marc:Maybe it would work.
Guest:It wouldn't be dark if they won the lottery.
Marc:And then they said.
Marc:Fuck you, Hitler.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Fucking asshole.
Marc:I mean, I'm a millionaire.
Guest:You piece of shit.
Guest:All right, so anyway.
Marc:You're at the home with the Thanksgiving.
Marc:So the nursing home.
Guest:No, it was Passover.
Guest:Oh, Passover, right.
Guest:And first of all, it is, you know, all these people.
Guest:We're sitting at the table.
Guest:It's my mother, 90.
Guest:Her friend, Shirley, 95.
Guest:Her friend, Molly, is 100.
Guest:Her friend, Hilda, is 100.
Guest:100.
Guest:And it has the most 100-year-olds in anywhere.
Marc:Lucid, though?
Marc:Lucid?
Marc:Lucid.
Guest:Yeah, Molly wouldn't stop.
Guest:During the Seder, she could not stop singing Dianu.
Guest:I'm like, Molly, shut the fuck up.
Guest:Anyway, and the rabbi is sitting at another table, and it's the most boring.
Guest:I can't even tell.
Guest:Hey, the Jews, and then we left Egypt, and then we walked, and then we did the roses, and the bitter herb.
Guest:He did the whole thing.
Guest:And he's going on and on, and all of a sudden, the woman at the next table yells, I just peed!
Guest:And then Shirley at my mother's table says, and everyone has to know about it.
Guest:And the rabbi nodded, not stopping at all.
Guest:And we're going to take the bitter.
Guest:I couldn't believe it.
Guest:And then, of course, I had to sing the four questions because I was the youngest one there.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:And my mother's like, oh, look at Judith.
Guest:She is so terrific.
Guest:But yeah, so that was... What town in New Jersey did you grow up in?
Guest:Clark.
Marc:I don't know where that is.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And you don't want to know where it is.
Marc:No, but I grew up in Pompton Lakes.
Marc:Do you know where that is?
Marc:No, where is that?
Marc:I don't know where it is.
Marc:It's in... Like what's near it?
Marc:Wayne.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We lived in Wayne when I was a kid.
Marc:I think I'm actually like, I'm a New Jersey guy.
Guest:Yeah, I am.
Guest:I'm a Jersey girl.
Marc:But do you ever go back?
Marc:No, there's no reason for me to go back.
Marc:I mean, there's no one there anymore.
Marc:I don't like everyone's gone.
Guest:Were you popular in high school?
Marc:I didn't go to high school in New Jersey.
Marc:I moved to New Mexico.
Marc:Oh, you were there till?
Marc:Like six years old, seven.
Marc:But my grandmother was always there.
Marc:I always went back.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I wasn't that popular in high school, were you?
Guest:Zero.
Guest:No, not at all.
Marc:Were you angry?
Marc:Were you trying?
Marc:Were you...
Guest:i was just i was living in a fantasy world of like get me the fuck out of here i can't you have to come see my show i'm gonna come see your show um i was very i was very tall um my parents were old yeah how old were they when they had you 41 and 48 and then and we were not fancy schmancy at all no siblings
Guest:I have a brother and a sister.
Marc:How are they?
Guest:Snore fest.
Guest:And my brother's an accountant.
Guest:My sister works in an insurance company.
Guest:It was like, and then I was like in the house going, what the fuck is wrong with all you people?
Guest:And I was like the identified patient.
Guest:You know how they always say there's the identified patient in the family?
Guest:So that's the one that everyone says is fucked up.
Guest:But I'm telling you, I was sort of the normal one.
Guest:And they were all like so reticent.
Guest:And it just like never, I was like, can we have some excitement here?
Marc:You're emotional.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, yeah, so I was very unpopular.
Guest:I was really tall.
Guest:I was in the marching band.
Guest:It was like perfect storm.
Guest:Yes, it was terrible.
Marc:And were you repressing all the current anger you have?
Guest:I mean, were you like in the halls of- In the halls of my high school, I could not, I mean, literally from class to class, Bigfoot, Sasquatch.
Guest:I was like constant, constant.
Guest:And if I walked in a classroom late, that was even worse because they would yell it in front of the-
Guest:teacher and it was just it was constant and i but i wasn't one of those people like of course i slunched over and i was like oh what does it have to happen to me but i knew somewhere inside that these people are fucking assholes yeah and there's a whole other world out there and i'm getting the fuck out of here and fuck them did you did you yell at them back no my mother always said judith ignore them they're jealous i'm like mother not jealous okay
Guest:I'm gigantic.
Guest:I'm in a fucking marching band uniform.
Guest:They're not jealous of me, okay?
Guest:That pip squeaks, Judith.
Guest:And I wouldn't say anything.
Guest:I really wouldn't.
Guest:But in my head, I would be like, fuck you, you fucking asshole.
Marc:Oh, it's awful.
Marc:You dumb shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What else did you do?
Marc:Did you date?
Guest:No.
Marc:Nothing.
Guest:I didn't go to the prom.
Guest:Did you go to the prom?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You did?
Marc:I was able to... I could move through worlds.
Marc:I was not an outcast.
Guest:yeah i was really i was funny then so i had friends in all camps see that's the thing i was funny but only the people in the marching band knew it and the choir yeah it was it was just so you had friends i had a small group of friends all complete outcasts yeah the gayest guy ever who i don't even talk to anymore but it was like
Guest:on purpose or just because i just i don't talk to anyone yeah and he was beyond gay i mean like stereotype 101 like barbara streisand yeah did he know he was gay uh oh please i do but yeah uh yeah i think he knew he was gay but then when he told me
Guest:you know, he, I forgot.
Guest:I think we were like 18 years old.
Guest:So I'm just like, I'm gay.
Guest:And I'm like, duh.
Guest:But, you know, it's like a big thing.
Marc:Sometimes there's a natural gravitation towards camp and they don't know they're gay yet.
Guest:They don't want to admit it.
Guest:It's like everyone, I think gay people as a gay person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, you know, like, look, people say, when did you know?
Guest:I knew
Guest:when I was three, that there was something different about me, that I wasn't like everyone else.
Guest:Three?
Guest:Three, definitely three.
Guest:I was cutting my hair.
Guest:I wanted to look like a boy.
Guest:I made everyone call me Ringo.
Guest:And my grandmother's like, Judith, why are you cutting your hair off?
Guest:But I just wanted to do boy things.
Guest:I had no desire to play with dolls.
Guest:And I knew that there was something different about me and that I was more attracted to, like I had different feelings about the girl.
Guest:you don't know until you're an adolescent and you become a sexual person.
Guest:Oh, that's what it is.
Guest:And then in the 70s, you do not tell anyone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But who were the people that were your heroes as an adolescent?
Marc:What was the things that were sparking your hero worship or sexuality?
Guest:Well, my first big crush was Barbara Eden.
Guest:ah yeah yeah remember genie yeah yeah couldn't be more gaisha yeah i have like you know and i just loved her i thought she was the most beautiful thing and then of course you know like teachers and then you know then of course i was the jewy you know barbara streisand and um you know i loved joan rivers too i loved outspoken yeah
Guest:Female.
Guest:I mean, I thought she was so funny.
Guest:I thought Phyllis Diller and Toadie Fields.
Guest:I mean, like, I I love those women.
Marc:Well, that's sort of like as a comic, you sort of are one of those.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I mean, especially like Toadie Fields, Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, because a lot of people try to characterize female comics as this or that.
Marc:But I mean, they were aggressive.
Marc:And you had to reckon with them because they were dealing with an industry that was completely unsympathetic and uninviting to women in general as stand-ups.
Marc:And all of them were killers.
Guest:They were amazing.
Guest:Sophie Tucker.
Guest:And then as I got older and I learned about Frances Faye, I mean, she was fucking unbelievable.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was those women that I would watch them and I would be like, yes.
Marc:I had the same thing happen to me when you watch comics is that they had a way of handling themselves, of taking on the world, having a point of view, not taking any shit.
Marc:It's empowering.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:It is about not taking any shit or taking the shit and reprocessing it and throwing it back in your face.
Marc:Have you spent time with Joan lately?
Guest:Uh, I haven't seen her in a God, about a year and a half or so.
Marc:Cause I just, like I was, you know, neither here nor there with the current manifestation of Joan Rivers.
Marc:Cause there was some, and I went and did her show where you sit in her bed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's lovely.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:She's a delight.
Marc:I mean, sweet.
Marc:And she's, well, she will talk shit about anybody.
Marc:Anybody.
Marc:And I got to get her in here.
Marc:I mean, without even much provocation.
Guest:But the greatest thing about her is when people talk shit about her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She's like, thank you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:thank you i love it thanks so much got more twitter followers got more you know she's just a genius and she writes so much and she does not stop i mean i just i think she's amazing it's weird because i you know even with the plastic surgery and stuff i'm like yeah it's all right yeah you know because some people like my girlfriend she's always like sort of like she had worked on this person that worked right so what i mean i have a mother who's like you know i don't even know what she looks like you know
Marc:What did she have done?
Marc:There's something always going on.
Marc:But it's pretty tasteful.
Marc:I mean, she doesn't do the filling the face thing.
Marc:So when did you first go, when did you first act on your girl love?
Marc:Do they call it that anymore?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:What do they call it?
Guest:Lesbo.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I was 15.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:And was it like, what have I done?
Marc:Or was it like, thank God?
Guest:It was like, oh my God.
Guest:It was just natural.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, it was very natural.
Guest:It was like a natural progression.
Guest:It was a complete secret.
Guest:It went on for a couple of years till we graduated high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, sneaking here, sneaking there.
Guest:My mother once caught us and she walked in the room.
Guest:I'm like, we were just playing Ouija board.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:We were playing Ouija board naked under the... I did.
Guest:Ouija board of all games.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That was what I came up with.
Guest:We were just playing Ouija board.
Guest:So that went on.
Guest:And, you know, I definitely had like love feelings or whatever, however they, whatever you could call them at that age.
Guest:Yes, yes, yes.
Guest:And then I went to college and I, it's so funny because when you're gay, you feel like you have to try to be straight or you have to, or at that time, I don't think kids feel like that anymore, but you're like, Oh, I, I, I got it.
Guest:I got to at least try it with the guy, you know?
Guest:And I had a boyfriend and I hate, I mean like, I know he was six, four, he was about 120 pounds and
Guest:And he hated food.
Guest:I was like, I fucking love food.
Guest:And he would eat like he would eat a plain cheese sandwich.
Guest:He's like, I only eat because I have to.
Guest:And he would drive the car without the radio on.
Guest:I was like, he was a complete opposite of me.
Marc:How did you find him?
Guest:He was in my dorm.
Guest:He was 6'4".
Guest:He looked kind of like Mick Jagger.
Guest:And he had a huge penis.
Guest:It was like that's everyone knew him because he had this huge penis.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And those guys don't need that much of a personality.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was like 10 inches long.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:When I tell you ripped apart at the seams.
Guest:So I lost my virginity to him.
Guest:And was it good?
Guest:No, I hated it.
Guest:It was so unnatural to me.
Guest:You know, he was just like he was like my brother.
Guest:He was a member of my family, just really boring and, you know, tall and just he's there to do a job to get something over with.
Guest:So he, we go to, I say to him, well, you know, he's like, so I said, okay, so you have to take me to dinner.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we went to.
Marc:This before you lose your virginity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he kept planning on, you know, and so he said, I said, well, you have to take me to dinner and then he, and I don't want to do it in the dorm.
Guest:So we went to a motel.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:You know, a motel.
Guest:Single level.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like the ones where when the father kidnaps the kids and then he closes the curtain, he's in there and, you know.
Guest:Hold up from the cops.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so uh we go to uh in new jersey yeah it was what was it charlie's something i all i know is that they had a nice salad bar with shrimp in it all right so and then we go to this motel yeah and we do it
Marc:So you're making out.
Guest:It's just like, I hated even making out.
Guest:Like the whole thing was unnatural.
Guest:Like I was like, oh, I can't believe I have to do this.
Guest:And then we do it.
Guest:It kills.
Guest:I hate it.
Guest:I mean, there's, it's just awful.
Marc:Like when he saw a 10 inch cock, I have to assume that would frighten me.
Guest:Right.
Marc:There's an amazement to it where you're like, oh my God.
Marc:But I had nothing.
Guest:to compare it to that's the other thing he must have known that I was abnormal oh my god and just think about he's 6'4 and like 120 like he was really skinny he was like 165 pounds so he's really skinny it's all cock it's like cock and then some little body attached to it he's
Guest:And the body was just a delivery system.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so he he puts it in.
Guest:Oh, I can.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then it really kills.
Guest:And then I went to the bathroom and I was like, OK, well, that broke.
Guest:And then I went back in the bed.
Marc:But you knew what had happened.
Marc:You didn't really think that he had injured you.
Guest:well no i was like i knew yeah and then i go back in the bed and i forgot what tv show was on it was some um it was some sitcom or something i was like oh good that's comforting yeah and then he and he doesn't like hug me or but then he was like oh we can do it again i'm like no fucking way and then the next day was the simon and garfunkel concert in central park yeah
Guest:And we went and I couldn't sit.
Guest:Oh, it killed so much.
Guest:Not fun.
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't sit.
Guest:I was like leaning against a tree.
Guest:And so that was my first.
Marc:Sounds great.
Marc:Yeah, it was really romantic.
Marc:You know, there was shrimp and, you know, hotel.
Marc:Motel.
Marc:Motel.
Guest:And so, but that went on and he wouldn't, he lived in my dorm and he was like, well, and he had his own room.
Guest:He's like, why don't you ever sleep in my room?
Guest:I'm like, because I'm gay.
Guest:I'm gay!
Guest:I'm gay!
Guest:But I didn't say that.
Guest:And then finally, I was just like, I can't anymore.
Guest:And then recently I was doing a gig and his wife showed up.
Guest:It was in Florida.
Guest:How'd you know his wife?
Guest:She came up to me and said, I'm, his name was Phillip.
Guest:I'm Phillip's wife.
Guest:And I'm like, oh my God.
Guest:And all I kept thinking about is how you, that big fucking dick is inside of you all the time.
Guest:And he's like, and I wanted to say, you know, she was like, oh, it's so nice to meet you.
Guest:I'm like, well, he made me gay.
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:I wanted to say that.
Marc:But I've been running from his cock for 30 years.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was so big.
Guest:It was.
Marc:Why didn't he come?
Marc:Where was he?
Marc:The wife just came?
Guest:Yeah, the wife came.
Guest:It was some Jewish women's gig.
Marc:He was Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jewish and a huge cock.
Guest:that happens yeah so that was my that was my straight experience and that was it i never slept with another guy um i just it was so unnatural yeah to me then i had you know and then i was with someone else you know then when i was with girls yeah it was like oh and now i have my lover
Marc:uh-huh yeah elisa she's the best yeah yeah but you know you've had a you know you've had a long career in uh in lesbianism yes i'm a professional lesbian professional lesbian yeah but okay so you do the con you do the what was the context of the comedy when you first tried in college
Guest:So the context was, it was Secret Santas.
Guest:Did you do that?
Guest:No, I don't know what that is.
Guest:So, like, for a week, you have a Secret Santa.
Guest:Oh, right, right.
Guest:And you get, like, notes, giving assignments.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then at the party, you find out who your Secret Santa is.
Guest:And our floor was really cruel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So one day, I had to crawl everywhere with an apple on my head, except outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in the bathroom.
Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It was so awful.
Guest:I ended up in the fucking health center because my neck and back were all fucked up.
Marc:I don't understand why you had to do that.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:You have to crawl for one day.
Marc:Oh, that was what the person told you to do.
Guest:Yeah, so that was one.
Guest:I had one where I had to...
Guest:I had to dress like I was going to church, wear a cross, give a speech on the Immaculate Conception, and sing, O Come, O Ye Faithful, and carry a Bible.
Marc:In front of people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Every night was a big show on the door.
Marc:Oh, I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:And then the present I got was this book, Jews in Suburbia.
Guest:So then I go to my RA.
Guest:I'm like, whoever my secret Santa is, is anti-Semitic.
Guest:I am being tortured.
Guest:This person hates.
Guest:And I know who it is because there was one really blonde guy who had a German last name.
Guest:I was like, it's him.
Guest:I know it's him.
Guest:Anyway, it was my friend Howard, who was my RA.
Guest:And he's like, Judy, I can't do anything about it until we find out, you know, at the party.
Guest:So then I get a note the next day saying I have to do 10 minutes of stand up comedy and use everyone who lives on our floor as material.
Right.
Marc:Were you funny at this time?
Marc:I was funny.
Guest:Yeah, people.
Guest:When I got to college, I ended up actually being popular and funny and people kind of appreciated me.
Guest:So the first time I did stand up was at that, you know, in the dorm using everyone.
Guest:And I got to tell you, I got so high.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I mean, I got high naturally.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was amazing.
Guest:And it turns out my friend Howard was my secret Santa.
Guest:The guy you went up to?
Guest:The guy that I was like, my secret Santa.
Guest:The guy that made me sing, Oh Come, Oh Ye Faithful, Wear a Cross and everything.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But that was the first time I did it.
Guest:And then...
Guest:I was hooked, you know, and I, I would go out.
Guest:I think I got, there was this place called the Charter House and it was like a, I don't know, a fish restaurant, but they were doing, you know, you know, in the 80s, every, like.
Marc:Probably a Roger Paul gig.
Guest:Yeah, everyone was doing stand up, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone.
Guest:So I did it for a few times and then on Mondays I would go to Catch a Rising Star and try to get on and that was when Adrian Tolsh.
Guest:was booking you know like she would do the monday nights and i would see bells are hosting and it was like an amazing learning experience but i was a sophomore in college so that was when rick newman was running yes yes and horrible lewis veranda was the bartender right lewis veranda yeah that's right and then i uh i stopped going because i wanted to graduate and then i moved to new york did you see like larry david oh i saw larry i remember larry shakes
Marc:Yeah, I do kind of.
Guest:Yeah, he was... I used to see him.
Marc:Is he dead?
Guest:He's dead.
Guest:He died at a gig.
Marc:Yeah, right, right.
Marc:That's what I remember.
Guest:Can you fucking imagine dying at a goddamn shit hell gig?
Guest:Anyway... Always.
Marc:I always imagine that.
Marc:Ronnie Shakes.
Marc:His name is Ronnie Shakes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I saw... Yeah, I would see Larry David.
Guest:I would see Larry Miller.
Guest:Joy Behar.
Guest:Susie Essman.
Guest:Paula.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:Everybody was there.
Marc:Seinfeld.
Marc:That place made comedy hot.
Marc:I mean, the improv was like, you know, it was grittier.
Guest:It was standing there in that back.
Guest:I remember, and I saw a leifer there for the first time.
Guest:And you would just even, you know, I would go on at 3 a.m.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I performed basically for the band and like two mob bosses who brought their mistresses there and they're doing coke in the back and then fucking and then, you know.
Guest:and but i didn't care i was on that stage you know and you know the band would laugh and that was like a compliment in itself because they've seen every fucking comic in the entire world but that's really how i started and then i passed you know how you pass and you can put in your avails right and then you'd call right and uh they made me the backup so like that because there were no cell phones right
Guest:And in order to make a living... Right.
Guest:Well, in order to make a living in New York, comics had to do seven, eight sets on a weekend.
Guest:And you'd go from one to another.
Guest:But there was no cell phones to say, I'm running late, I'm in a cab, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:So I would sit at the bar.
Guest:I'd get $50 per set.
Guest:And the other backup was Chris Rock.
Guest:And he got on one night, and that was the end of it.
Guest:He just fucking killed.
Guest:Yeah, and that was it.
Guest:He wasn't the backup anymore.
Guest:And I would just sit there and pray someone...
Guest:Wouldn't show up?
Guest:Wouldn't show up.
Guest:And, you know, notoriously, I got on once, and I don't know who didn't show up, but it was the check spot.
Guest:And I wasn't... And I was so fucking nervous, and they were all getting their checks, and I was just like, oh, God, this is fucking hell.
Guest:I'm never going to get on.
Marc:But, you know, I ended up... And you're just standing there in front of people who are distracted and talking about money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And like, oh, my God, yeah.
Marc:It's still horrible.
Guest:It's the worst spot in the world, but they...
Marc:And it always comes right when you're like setting up your closing bits.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:It's always going to come like 10 minutes before you're building up to something.
Guest:But now, I mean, now they do it when the MC's on.
Marc:Sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, but yeah, this was... I'll actually wait.
Marc:If I see them paying, I'm like, all right, you guys do this and I'll start again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You cannot do stand-up when they get their fucking check.
Marc:No, it's ridiculous.
Guest:It's awful.
Marc:So you tanked it?
Guest:Yeah, I tanked it.
Guest:I felt like I tanked it.
Marc:What year was it?
Marc:So that was 81?
Oh.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:When I was back up, it's got to be like 86.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:86, yeah.
Marc:And you're still going to college or you're done?
Guest:No, no, I'm done.
Guest:I graduated in 84.
Guest:With your music degree?
Guest:Moved to New York with my music degree.
Guest:Shut the fuck up.
Marc:Do you ever play?
Guest:Yeah, all the time.
Guest:Look, what's with your guitars?
Guest:I just got a new one.
Marc:Are you a good guitar player?
Marc:I'm good enough.
Marc:No, I got this.
Marc:I'm not a big guitar buyer, but someone set me up with a free guitar.
Guest:All right, well, here's my question.
Marc:What?
Guest:What did you study in college?
Marc:English literature.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Film criticism.
Marc:Anything I could charm my way through was the way I did it.
Marc:Right, gotcha.
Marc:Sure, anything that required interpretation to get a grade, I was very good at.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:Numbers, not for me.
Marc:I don't think reading music would be my thing.
Guest:I liked that.
Guest:Theory was my favorite.
Marc:I wish I could do it.
Marc:You can read music?
Marc:yeah of course that's easily like you can yeah can you still play a clarinet probably if i yeah yeah more i play piano but i play classical so so now kind of boring what i remember of you then like because i was so that was 86 so i was i didn't get to new york till 89 right and by that time it was um you were all about the curl on your face what is wrong with you all right i have the curl
Guest:yeah well because i hate myself and then you bring something up and then i'm like oh fuck no i thought you were like i actually thought that like this person is doing she's in the tradition of toady fields right i really was you're like doing toady field right yeah i had a little curl i had the spit curl i actually had it because i was doing i put it there i was doing i was in a scene in my acting class that took place in the 20s and i had a little and then what's his name who else who had the curl here
Guest:someone had the curl on the top anyway like lenny and squiggy i don't know but i thought oh i'll keep the curl it's a little you know look at her yeah it's a hook no pun intended and it was so stupid because i would fucking have the curl like i'd be at the beach and i have the curl and then i have a tan line of a curl on my face and um and then i did the bit you know the judy show then and actually michael patrick king
Guest:he came up with that he's like why do you have that stupid fucking spit curl yeah because you'd like if you had your own show in the 60s you would slide down a big spit curl singing the judy show and that's how i did i would just do it all the time and then he was a comic right yeah he was a comic he was in a team yeah he was in a team first what was that team because like when i got there in 89 and and silver was you know busy ending the uh
Guest:Right.
Marc:Improv.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I'd go over there and he'd be around.
Guest:Yeah, he was always at the improv.
Marc:But isn't it bizarre?
Marc:Like these people we knew when we were like kids just starting out and now all of a sudden certain people are like billionaires and you're like, I can't.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Why are we not?
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's, yeah.
Guest:I try to explain that to my partner and Lisa all the time.
Guest:It's like...
Marc:Well, what do you, like, see, what do you attribute your... Non-success and poorness?
Marc:It's not non-success.
Marc:It's being at a certain level.
Marc:I don't look at it as non-success.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Marc:There's a certain type of charm and foresight and social politics that is required, and also a certain amount of work.
Marc:Yeah, synchronicity.
Marc:Yeah, sure, sure.
Guest:What do I...
Marc:No, I don't see you as a failure, but I feel like we've both been just fighting it out for all these years.
Guest:I definitely relate to you when I... Yeah.
Guest:I am not a failure because I do make a living.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But do I want to be rich?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have one fucking bathroom and two kids.
Guest:What do I attribute it to?
Guest:Um...
Marc:Did you burn bridges?
Guest:No, I never burn.
Guest:I'm overly loyal, even when I have bad representation.
Guest:And, you know, I honestly, I think having a family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:kind of, you know, maybe stopped a little momentum, you know, and I also think being a lesbo... Yeah.
Guest:You know, I came out in the 90s, in the mid-90s, and... Yeah, so it wasn't... I don't know.
Marc:But you never... But your act was never specific.
Guest:You never were one of those people... It wasn't until I had kids, until Henry was born, and I was like, I gotta talk about my family, you know?
Guest:So that was 96, 97.
Guest:So... But...
Marc:I think it's because we're very intense and we have a certain energy.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Well, I've mellowed a bit, but when I look at my stand-up and stuff, there's a menace to it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not sort of like, let's just sit back and watch Judy Gold.
Marc:It's like, hold on to your chair.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:I've said it on stage where I'm like, I'm not everybody's idea of a night out.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so I always felt like, but I can't turn that down.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:Right, I am who I am.
Guest:I mean, I think the beginning, like, I don't know if you did this.
Guest:What?
Guest:But in the very beginning, when I started getting representation, they started telling me, do this, do that.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Dye your hair blonde, straighten it.
Guest:Don't ever go on TV with curly hair.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who said that?
Guest:Too Jewish, too Jewish, too Jewish.
Guest:And these were Jews telling you that?
Guest:Oh, always.
Guest:Non-Jews would never fucking say anything like that.
Guest:And I would hear that in the back of my head, you know, instead of being like, fuck you.
Guest:This is who I am.
Guest:And it took a while.
Marc:Made you more insecure than you were already.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was, oh my God, maybe that'll work.
Guest:And it's like, you don't realize until you get to a certain age that...
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:You people have jobs and you don't have jobs.
Guest:You're in the business.
Guest:You're out of the business.
Guest:This is what I do.
Guest:Don't fucking tell me what to do on stage.
Guest:You have never been on stage.
Guest:I have to say, the people who have done stand-up, like Chris Mazzilli.
Guest:Do you know Chris Mazzilli?
Guest:He owns Gotham.
Guest:He is so good to comics because he has done stand-up comedy and he gets it.
Guest:The people who tell stand-ups
Guest:how to act, what to say.
Guest:No.
Guest:You have no right to do that.
Marc:Well, they used to do it.
Marc:I mean, it's weird when you watch a documentary on Woody Allen.
Marc:Yeah, I was just thinking that too.
Marc:Like Rollins and Jaffe, where they take these raw guys.
Marc:But then again, back then, it was a much more intimate business.
Marc:And there was sort of an angle to it.
Marc:But by the time we got into it, I'm surprised that they told you anything.
Marc:Because my manager, basically, eventually what they tell you is like, I don't know what to do with you.
Guest:oh yeah that's what they that's what it all involves very specific type judy very specific that's what i get judy you know well you're a type i'll push for it every fucking job i get yeah goes to a black person really yes yes you go out for what i go out for thing i mean i i have to say i i can tell all right so
Marc:Oh, so they want some sort of like over the top, aggressive, loud.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I'll audition and then we're going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So here's let's see.
Guest:Everybody loves Raymond.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they had this part.
Guest:The name was Judy.
Mm hmm.
Guest:35, really sarcastic, can't stand Ray.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Partner of, what's his name?
Guest:Brad Garrett.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, policeman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So can you fly out and read for this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was literally the words.
Guest:I didn't have to look at the script.
Guest:It was like Judy sarcastic.
Guest:All right.
Marc:They wrote it for you because he probably, who wrote it?
Marc:They probably knew you.
Guest:Yeah, it was probably, I think it was Lou or I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Guys we know.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And so.
Guest:You know what's funny about those guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I ran into Lou on a plane.
Marc:And, like, after all is said and done, after they make a billion dollars, they're sort of like, man, I wish I was, you know, doing stand-up.
Guest:I know!
Guest:I know!
Guest:They're all like, I'm a billionaire, but, oh, God, I wish I was doing stand-up.
Guest:Do you miss it?
Guest:And you're like, and I'm like, fuck you!
Guest:I have one fucking bathroom!
Guest:here take my gig I'll tell them in your fucking house anyway exactly give me a little bit of your money right and here take my gigs you can do them for me so so they so they said to me could you and I was at that time I was one of the producers of the Rosie O'Donnell show and I said to Rosie can I just fly out the TV show yes yeah
Guest:Can I fly out for this audition?
Guest:And I literally came in, took the 7 a.m.
Guest:flight, and they're like, look, it's just going to be you.
Guest:It's really you.
Guest:You know how they're always like, it's you.
Guest:You just got to go in and read.
Guest:Just got to go in and read.
Guest:And then I get up to go, and they tell me as I land, by the way, there's going to be another person they're offering.
Marc:Just for the network or studio?
Guest:For this part, this recurring part.
Marc:But it's not just a casting agent.
Marc:You've passed that.
Marc:You're going in to read for the network.
Marc:Oh, I'm reading with the,
Guest:it was um it was the producers it was a producer session all right they go there'll be one other person there uh queen latifah i go well why the fuck am i flying out here yeah what who judy gold queen latifah anyway so i get to the audition i got i landed at 10 i think the audition was at like 12 31 yeah and um i go to the audition and i walk in the waiting room
Guest:40 black women and me i'm not kidding i was like really i go in i read it was like couldn't have been more perfect yeah leave yeah get on a plane yeah go back home yeah get up to go fucking you know produce rosie i had to be there at 7 a.m yeah
Guest:Sherry Shepard.
Guest:She got that part.
Guest:Then, this is the whole history of my career.
Guest:Then I do, I did, oh, I was up for Talk Soup, the host of Talk Soup.
Marc:Sure, we were all up for that.
Marc:Did you get to guest host?
Guest:Yeah, I did guest host.
Marc:Like four of them or whatever?
Marc:Yeah, Aisha Tyler.
Yeah.
Guest:Then I did the pilot.
Guest:I hosted the pilot for the newlywed game for the Game Show Network, which I love game shows and I love hosting.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I started, I would MC all the time.
Guest:I was like, give me the MC spot because I got more stage time.
Guest:I was on stage all night.
Marc:And you can be quick.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And you can tighten your bits in between.
Guest:And so I do the pilot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're like, oh, my God.
Guest:You know how they're always like, oh, my God.
Guest:And anytime someone's like, oh, well, you killed it.
Guest:I'm like, that's the end of that.
Guest:I'm not getting that job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I did the pilot.
Guest:And then I wasn't famous enough.
Guest:So they gave it to what's her name?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Marnie.
Guest:Carney Wilson.
Guest:Oh, OK.
Guest:And then she sucked.
Guest:So they gave it to Sherry Shepherd.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because she's black.
Guest:Sergeant Judy.
Guest:Who was it?
Guest:Look, Sergeant Judy.
Guest:That's the fucking name.
Guest:I'm looking on IMDb.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sherry Shepard.
Guest:How many fucking jobs?
Guest:Then there's an opening at The View.
Guest:Sherry Shepard.
Guest:And I love Sherry.
Guest:I mean, she's really a nice person.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How many fucking jobs does she need?
Guest:Right.
Guest:At one point, she had a sitcom and was hosting The View and was doing The Newly Wedding.
Guest:And I'm like, Sherry, really?
Guest:I mean, just one.
Marc:But have you ever pitched... Obviously, I don't know, but I assume at some point you're like, fuck it, I'm going to pitch a show about me and my partner with the kids.
Guest:Now, it's interesting, Mark, that you bring that up because my show, the Judy show, My Life as a Sitcom, is all about...
Marc:me trying to pitch a show and it goes through the whole trajectory of my career yeah and the three major times in my life where i pitched a show okay and i always tell people that people don't understand that about us is that you know you pitch a show and then you get a script deal or whatever they don't make the show and then you got to wait around till your life gets shitty enough and different enough and then you pitch it right and you go to montreal and you do the remember this guy showcase yes yes
Guest:You've got to come see my show at the Geffen.
Marc:That's what it's all about.
Guest:And so, yeah, I have pitched it.
Guest:Honestly, if I really think about it, my life is pretty much a recipe for a sitcom.
Guest:And I think if I was... I mean, I'm not saying this in a bitter way.
Guest:I'm just saying... As opposed to everything else?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm not...
Guest:It's funny because they made a drink at the opening night the other night.
Guest:And it was like, you know, triple sack and orange cream soda and all this stuff.
Guest:And I go, are there any bitters in it?
Guest:Because that would be.
Guest:But I do believe that if I was a straight white male.
Guest:I think I would have had a better chance pitching my life story.
Guest:I mean, because it's like, think of my life.
Guest:I share custody.
Guest:I'm divorced.
Guest:My ex-partner has way more money than I do.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, so she has a three-bedroom, three-bathroom.
Guest:I live in the two-bedroom, one-bathroom.
Marc:My brother goes through this.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So she's way more successful, and I'm the artist.
Guest:Well, you chose to be an artist, Judy.
Guest:and you know my mother is out of her mind really hilariously funny in a nursing home so i'm dealing with an aging parent divorce elisa my partner is great and there's like a she's basically their stepmother six and a half years and you were with uh the other one for like 20 years yeah i remember her yeah from the clubs and stuff yeah i remember when you first i mean i think i met your kids even
Guest:yeah you did yeah how about how when we went on that do you remember the comedy cellar yeah they had the boat ride horrible and i go on and you're like this is my wife and i'm like i didn't even know you were married yeah well that was bad that was it was the number one oh she i think she just adopted a kid we don't talk it's interesting when you when you get divorced and there are no kids you don't have to ever talk to them i know and we have to talk i tell that to elisa you know we have to i have to talk to her all the time is it bad
Guest:No.
Marc:It's okay.
Guest:Do you think it's bad?
Guest:No.
Guest:It's not bad.
Marc:All right.
Guest:I mean, it's just annoying.
Marc:I don't know how people deal with it.
Marc:I am so aggravated.
Marc:I am so panicky and anxious all the time.
Marc:I don't have children.
Marc:Now I'm going to marry this one who's younger than me and she wants to have children.
Marc:That's what I think I'm going to do.
Marc:She's cute.
Marc:But I'm paralyzed.
Marc:I have this wall of anxiety that I'm just not going to be able to handle.
Guest:But you know what's so great?
Guest:about having a kid.
Guest:First of all, crack addicts have fucking kids.
Marc:No, I get that, but they don't do it necessarily on purpose.
Marc:And what happens to those kids?
Guest:Okay, but there's like homeless kids that go to Harvard.
Guest:Remember homeless in Harvard?
Guest:There's people who are- I know.
Marc:Anyone can do it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:But the point, this is why it would be good for you.
Guest:Because you have a child and you can't focus on yourself 24 hours a day.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you realize, oh my God, there's someone else who's depending on me.
Marc:That caused me a strike of terror.
Guest:No, but that's what's so great about it.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I can see that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm done with myself.
Marc:I'm exhausted of me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's boring.
Guest:I'm like, I'm so fucking sad.
Guest:Every morning I wake up in a panic like, oh my God, my mother's going to die.
Guest:I'm going to have no material.
Guest:I have no money.
Guest:I'm going to die.
Guest:I have cancer.
Guest:It's like, shut the fuck up.
Marc:I know and then you realize that it's just patterns Oh, yeah when you when all of a sudden you think like I'm starting a new hour and like no, right?
Marc:It's just the same emotional rollercoaster that happened 20 years ago, right?
Marc:It's just getting bigger.
Guest:Yeah, don't you think it's getting worse as you get older?
Marc:No, I don't have the energy anymore.
Marc:Like, I don't have the energy to argue anymore.
Marc:Like, when we get into a fight, literally I yell and I'm like, I gotta sit down.
Marc:You know, I'm tired.
Marc:I can't, I don't, it's ridiculous.
Marc:And then you hear yourself as a 49, 50 year old person.
Marc:And you're like, this tone is coming out of my mouth.
Marc:This like emotionally seven year old fucking horrible thing.
Marc:And it's embarrassing.
Marc:It's embarrassing.
Marc:That's the feeling I have.
Marc:Unfortunately, I like shame.
Marc:And shame compels me.
Marc:You know, like that's why we beat ourselves up.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's something to do with shame.
Marc:I haven't explored it.
Guest:Shame.
Guest:That's what my therapist actually recently said.
Guest:And it was the first therapist that said, you have to deal with your shame.
Guest:And like a fucking light bulb went off.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Because I feel guilty, too.
Guest:But yeah, I feel shame.
Marc:But I'm trying to figure out what the fuck is that shame?
Marc:It's a very broad concept.
Marc:I don't walk around feeling ashamed of myself.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But there's something about insecurity and the idea that you're not good enough.
Guest:And that you're going to be found out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You and I are definitely not frauds.
Marc:I don't get the I'm a fraud thing much.
Guest:I don't either.
Marc:Well, if I'm going to be found out, it's just going to be a guy that should always be crying.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And perhaps...
Guest:In the corner, rocking back and forth.
Marc:Or the bottom in an aggressive gay relationship.
Marc:If I'm going to be found out, it's like, I should have been sucking cock 20 years ago.
Marc:That's the biggest fear I have.
Marc:I'm going to wake up 60 and be like, I have been missing dick for three marriages.
Marc:In my ass, yes.
Marc:Yeah, for three marriages.
Marc:How did I avoid that?
Marc:That was buried pretty deep.
Marc:I should have just let that happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:but uh but do you you don't have the you suck voice you're not good enough voice and well I do I do it comparatively like the the biggest one I really have like even like I've gotten better at it because I think uh you know I've been pretty honest like I feel like I've finally sort of arrived at myself so when I do things I'm like well if it's if it's authentic to me I'm okay with it right right but like with comedy like because of my noodling like I don't I don't tag things well right I always think like you know why don't I put more work into punch lines right
Marc:I feel like I'm charming my way through as opposed to really structuring my shit.
Guest:Right, but you just said I majored in English because I wanted to charm my way.
Marc:Well, that's I think all comedy is.
Marc:But if there's anything I get down on myself is that I'm too specific, which I thought to do.
Marc:It's like, I don't care.
Marc:I can't generalize.
Marc:Aren't we all?
Marc:I'm like, no, I do this.
Marc:Either you laugh at it, you feel bad for me, or whatever you're going to do.
Guest:Yeah, but I love that.
Guest:That's what's so great about you.
Guest:And I feel like I'm the same way.
Guest:Yeah, we are.
Guest:And people say, you're too specific.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay, well, I'm not going to be fucking general.
Guest:I'm not a general person.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know anybody.
Guest:I don't fit in with all you fucking people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then if you are general, then you look like a moron.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Because you're sitting up there going, hey, doesn't everybody wake up and want to die?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And people are like, what is this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there's five people that are like, I got you.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:But I was afraid to laugh.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Because my wife's here and she doesn't know that I want to fucking kill myself.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:So it's tricky.
Guest:It is tricky.
Guest:But I'd rather be, you know, true to who I am.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I couldn't.
Guest:First of all, the thing, the fact of the matter is I couldn't live with myself if I did that.
Guest:It would just kill me.
Marc:I just don't know how to do it because I don't like to feel disconnected on stage.
Marc:This just happened to me on Thursday night.
Marc:I was in Buffalo.
Marc:Hadn't happened because I've been working really hard for a year and I just hit that wall where I'm like, I am tired of these jokes.
Marc:I'm tired of telling this story.
Marc:And I couldn't autopilot.
Marc:So I literally stopped in the middle of a bit in front of an audience and goes, I just said, I can't.
Marc:I don't know what I'm going to do right now, but we're going to have to just sit here for a minute.
Marc:And what did they do?
Marc:Well, I have enough fans that are sort of like, well, he'll get through this.
Marc:He's going to work it.
Marc:They're like, I have a support system.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, my fans are sort of like, he's doing a Marin thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:He's going to wrestle with himself.
Marc:And I wrestled my way out of it in front of them.
Marc:But that's how I generate new material.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I get to that point, too, where I'm like, I fucking hate this joke.
Marc:Well, let's talk specifics about this, the partnering in the sense of the kids.
Marc:Who had the kids?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, Henry, who's 16, my ex had him.
Guest:And then I adopted him.
Guest:It was a second-parent adoption.
Guest:And that's because of Woody Allen.
Guest:You know, those second-parent adoptions actually came about because of Woody Allen and Mia Farrow, because they adopted kids, but they...
Guest:Well, first, the first one was that, you know, for gays, but they didn't live together and they.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that's how that second parent adoption came about.
Guest:She would adopt and then they set the precedent.
Guest:They set the precedent.
Guest:And then.
Guest:So we it took about eight or nine months.
Guest:I had all the paperwork filled out before he was born.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I have to say, when we got to the hospital, who are you?
Guest:It was 1996, and there was one nurse in the hospital, Alice Feely, and she was a lessee, and she had seen me perform in Provincetown, and she was a fan, and she saw me, and she said, I'm gonna take care of you, gave me a wristband,
Guest:And she said, I will make sure, you know, and thank God for her.
Guest:Or I would have been sitting out with the fucking Hasidic husbands who sit there.
Guest:The wife goes and gives birth.
Guest:They go, it's a girl.
Guest:They're like, all right, bye.
Guest:And they leave.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:It's a girl and they go back to the fucking Borough Park and fuck a prostitute.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In their fucking wool coat.
Marc:Anyway- In their station wagons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he was adopted and then so I had exact same legal rights.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So then five years later, I gave birth and-
Guest:She never did the paperwork.
Guest:And when Ben, the little one, was two and a half and Henry was seven and a half, we split.
Guest:And she hadn't adopted Ben yet.
Guest:And that was sort of a very bad time for us.
Guest:And there was a lot of acrimony.
Guest:And she was like, you better let me adopt Ben.
Guest:And this was like a major thing because I could have been a big cunt and said, you know what?
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:You can't see Ben.
Guest:You left me and you're not adopting him.
Guest:But when I looked at the relationship of Henry and Ben, I mean, they're brothers.
Guest:And I don't want one to think, you know, I'm...
Guest:The son of both of them and the other one to think I'm the son of one of them.
Guest:I wanted that.
Guest:I wanted them to be brothers.
Guest:And honestly, there's two separate sperm donors because we ran out of the sperm for Henry.
Guest:So we had to buy different sperm.
Guest:So genetically, there's nothing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But if they are more brothers like you can.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So.
Guest:I actually allowed her after we broke up to adopt him.
Guest:And that was a precedent setting case.
Guest:Really?
Guest:In New York that I, you know, allowed her.
Guest:I was a gay person who was not with my partner, allowing my ex-partner to adopt him.
Guest:And.
Guest:I think after we were in the judges chambers and she said to the kids, do you understand what's going on here?
Guest:And they said, yes.
Guest:And then after it was done, Henry reached over to Ben and hugged him and said, now we're now we're full brothers.
Guest:And I thought, OK, this was totally worth it.
Guest:And it was just beautiful.
Guest:And then I'm so happy.
Guest:Because honestly, they go back and forth.
Guest:And Henry's the only consistent thing Ben has ever had in his life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he looks out for him.
Guest:Yeah, they beat the fucking shit out of each other.
Guest:Henry punches the shit out of him.
Guest:Ben calls him stupid and says, you know, you're a pothead.
Guest:But...
Guest:If, you know, I say to Henry, if you saw someone beating up Ben, what would you do?
Guest:No fucking way.
Guest:I'm going to fucking kill, you know, anything.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:You always fight.
Guest:You fight.
Guest:But, you know, that is, you know, I want them to have each other.
Marc:And they do.
Marc:That's a beautiful story.
Guest:That was, I think, one of the best things I ever did.
Marc:It was, well, it was pretty selfless.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, you know, especially as an angry person.
Marc:I mean, the desire to keep that drama going is like.
Guest:I don't, I didn't want, I just, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Or just out of spite.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I could have been like a total like, fuck you.
Guest:But, you know, what does that, and what does that show your kids?
Guest:See, that's why it's going to be good for you.
Guest:Because you're going to have to make decisions, not as angry Mark, but as daddy Mark.
Guest:And it's going to be different.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you're going to be good at it.
Marc:I'm fortunate that she's young enough to where I'm getting a little daddy experience now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that's more incestual, Mark.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old is she?
Marc:30.
Guest:All right, 20 years.
Marc:You know, what's the worst that can happen is that, you know, the worst that can happen is she leaves me with the kid and that's the worst.
Marc:The other worst thing that can happen is that I'm too tired and old.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now, do you feel different about this one than the other two?
Marc:I do.
Marc:I do.
Marc:I don't think I was really even capable of empathy in the last two.
Marc:I think it was, you know, we're so self-propelled.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You just sort of expect the person you're with to accommodate that.
Marc:whatever fucking bullshit you're dumping out there.
Marc:And then when they don't, you fight.
Marc:And then when those kinds of fights happen, eventually they're sort of like, I don't think he cares who I am.
Marc:They get exhausted and they go away and try to find themselves.
Marc:Now what does she do?
Marc:She works with autistic kids.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I love her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So she's perfect for you because you have no emotion.
Guest:You're just angry all the time.
Guest:And it'll be great.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:She works with emotionally abused.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I'm like, great.
Guest:That's perfect.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's like Elisa.
Guest:Elisa is a therapist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I want to fucking kill myself most of the time because I don't know if this is like for you, but nothing I say is benign with her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's always some hidden meaning behind something.
Guest:Right.
Marc:What I get is a lot of, there's like, because with autistic kids, so much of it is, you know, is cognitive.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's about, you know, sort of like, you know, behavioral.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So what I get a lot of is like, okay, this is what's going to, you're doing this now.
Marc:And I'm like, this is not any other time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, no, this is, you're going to, you know, arc, you're going to yell, and then you're going to apologize or whatever.
Marc:Right.
Marc:This is what's happening.
Marc:I'm like, I'm not that predictable.
Marc:And then you realize, oh, fuck, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I am that predictable.
Marc:Yeah, it's not like we don't do a lot of analysis.
Marc:We do a lot of like, you know, use your words.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Fucking shit, fuck.
Marc:Use your words.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:But the best one was we were watching, Elisa and I were watching the Olympics.
Guest:It was the Federer.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:It was Federer and...
Guest:Who would and Andy Murray?
Guest:Yeah, it was the London Olympics.
Guest:Yeah, and that was a little really long do you watch tennis or now?
Guest:All right So it was a really long match and then everyone wanted Andy Murray to win because he's a Brit and it was you know the first time in a hundred years so he wins and He drops to his knees and he kisses the ground and and then he takes off his sweatband and it throws the sweatband to the fuck wants your disgusting
Guest:I mean, that is the most... What are you going to do with that?
Guest:I'm going to do that after my shows.
Guest:I'm going to pull out my tampon and be like, hey, good night, everybody.
Guest:eBay.
Marc:Yeah, like I... Judy Gold tampon.
Marc:Who's going to bid on that first?
Marc:What do we got?
Guest:Like, I still get my period anyway.
Guest:But so anyway, so so Andy Murray wins.
Guest:And you know how they they run to the stands to go greet whoever.
Guest:So he's running up the stands and I'm not making this up.
Guest:And Elisa says to me, so who do you think he's going to kiss first, his mother or his girlfriend?
Guest:And I said, I don't know, probably his mother.
Guest:And she goes, oh, you want to know why you're saying you said that?
Guest:I'm like, yeah.
Guest:because that's who you would kiss judy you would leave me standing there in front of millions of people you go and run and kiss your mother oh mommy oh please love me please be proud of me oh i love you mommy i swear to god and then he goes and kisses his girlfriend because he's not jewish and then i had to listen to that fucking shit i mean i couldn't even i'm like i really it's like she surprises me because i think she's just asking me right a question question but it's all like oh that's good see yeah yeah
Marc:Nothing better than being with a therapist who uses the craft of therapy as an arsenal.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:it's great i've got everybody figured out right now they will do my bidding yes exactly that's good it's good yeah and i feel bad that she doesn't have a mic because i i'm saying things and she's right there and i think she seems very happy everybody seems very she's a good she's good she's just my light all right so i met elisa i was 44 i like you this is the right relationship like i feel like i'm finally old enough and i know
Marc:What's weird is that, and I've noticed this, I don't know if maybe you guys can help me out, is that I feel like on some level I do deserve to be punished for my past behavior.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And maybe that's part of the shame thing, but I don't think I was a good man with the other two.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And for very specific reasons that were selfish.
Marc:And this one will call me out on that shit and does not tolerate much.
Marc:And as a childish person, you want to stomp and yell.
Marc:But if you just sit with the pain of like, well, this is a two-way street and she's a person and not just there to coddle me, I'm learning a lot.
Guest:And the other thing is, it's like, we'll be in the house, I live in this fucking tiny apartment in New York, and something will happen with the kids, and then I get, can you come here for a minute, please?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:What are you saying to them?
Guest:Do you understand that you're engaging?
Guest:I'm like, shut the fuck up!
Guest:I'm a bad parent, let me just be a fucking bad parent!
Guest:Oh, God, it's it's annoying.
Marc:So do you get in terms of like being out and being vocal?
Marc:I mean, do you feel that like what's gone on with the with the Supreme Court?
Marc:I mean, are you active constantly?
Guest:I've been an activist.
Guest:I really have been a marriage equality and anti-bullying and all that.
Guest:You know, I've been pretty out and.
Guest:You know, yes.
Guest:And I've done as much, a lot of work for marriage equality.
Guest:And, you know, when Prop 8 actually passed, my kids and I went down to the Columbus Circle.
Guest:They had right by the Mormon temple with my friend Bob Smith.
Guest:He wrote up these signs that we carried.
Guest:And so Ben, little Ben, was carrying a sign that said, my two moms can beat up your 14 wives.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And because it was the fucking Mormons that, you know, I mean, fucking whatever.
Guest:So, you know, we have been I have been an activist for gay marriage.
Guest:And I do think this and I have actually Edie Windsor, who is the plaintiff.
Guest:I have been talking about her in my act for about five years.
Guest:And she came to my show and she saw herself on the screen and everything.
Guest:And so we spoke and I spent the afternoon with her.
Guest:She's the most incredible person.
Guest:Then we just saw her at another event in New York, her and Roberta Kaplan, her lawyer.
Guest:And Roberta was telling us what it was like to stand in front of the Supreme Court.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:And Edie Windsor is such a classic.
Guest:classy, you know, and it's just, it's so incredible.
Guest:But, you know, look, thank you to the federal government.
Guest:Scalia should be fucking ashamed of himself.
Guest:Thomas should be ashamed of himself.
Guest:And if you look at what they said, like Scalia is all about sodomy.
Guest:We knew once the sodomy laws passed, fuck, why is it always about sex?
Guest:As Elisa said...
Guest:You know, Scalia needs Thomas to stick his big black dick in his ass and get sodomized by him anyway.
Guest:And then you look at Justice Kennedy, who basically said it's about the children and their families need to be treated equally.
Guest:But there's 38 states.
Guest:Well, 37 now with California that don't have gay marriage.
Guest:So what happens when you are gay?
Guest:You have federal benefits.
Guest:You're settled somewhere and you get transferred, you know, to Texas.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:All of a sudden you have no benefits.
Marc:Your family has no health insurance.
Marc:But what they passed the other day, that stops that, right?
Guest:No, it's only the federal benefits are only for the states that have passed gay marriage.
Guest:So it only works in states that have passed.
Marc:Those are smart states because, you know, to have people flocking, to have gay people, gay families flocking with two incomes per household.
Marc:That's a...
Guest:Well, the best part is California is the most populous state.
Guest:So 30% now of people, that's 30% of the entire population, is now entitled to those federal benefits.
Guest:So it kind of increases it.
Guest:But it's fucking ridiculous.
Guest:No one wants to get married in your stupid fucking church.
Guest:How do Lisa and I and our kids affect your stupid fucking Christian life?
Guest:I live down the street.
Guest:I'm minding my own business.
Fuck.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All those people are fucking gay.
Guest:Anyone who says it's a choice has made the choice.
Guest:That's what I decided.
Guest:What the fuck are you picking on us for?
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's just ridiculous.
Guest:It is.
Guest:And Chris Christie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Blasting this.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:What if obese people couldn't get married?
Guest:Oh, it just pisses me off.
Guest:But yeah, so I'm happy about it, but I think it's a step forward.
Guest:But look, there's still 38 states.
Marc:Well, 37, sorry.
Marc:Yeah, it's just ridiculous.
Guest:I mean, when you really think about it.
Marc:I mean, I feel the same way.
Marc:I just don't get it.
Marc:I mean, why are people even thinking about it?
Marc:The future will be a better place if people can be comfortable and actually have a shot at happiness and not be ashamed of themselves.
Guest:It just becomes all sexual.
Guest:When you think about it, honestly, if you break it down, which I have said in my act, Jerry Sandusky has more benefits than me because he is married to a woman and he has 1,128 rights.
Guest:They have all protections under the law.
Guest:Eric Menendez got married in jail
Guest:He has more benefits than me.
Guest:It's a criminal.
Guest:It's beyond.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So this show that you're doing now, what are you hoping for?
Guest:I love doing the show, but honestly, I would love to get a show out of it.
Marc:Well, maybe now because the cultural tides seem to be shifting, and even in the last 10 years with the representation of gay relationships on TV, even that still felt a little boutique-y.
Marc:But now, maybe it's time.
Guest:My goal has always been...
Guest:to do an all in the family and everybody loves raymond a city or where the family is gay and then you watch it and you go you don't think about it i i have the same exact issues this is just a funny family right you know it's it's the only family that has not been represented like i i interviewed george lopez a few weeks ago with the 92nd street why yeah and yeah how was that gig
Guest:Can I interview you there?
Guest:That would be awesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Have you been interviewed yet?
Marc:For the 92nd Street?
Marc:Well, I know.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I'm pitching.
Guest:Pitch it.
Marc:All right.
Guest:They love you.
Guest:Anyway, so I do this funny people thing.
Guest:I've interviewed Whoopi.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Anyway, so Louis Black.
Guest:It's really been fun and joy.
Guest:And so I'm interviewing George.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, I'm wondering, how is this going to be?
Guest:You know, I read everyone's books before I do it.
Guest:I'm not one of these interviewers.
Guest:And you're like, fuck you, you didn't even read my book.
Guest:But I said to him, which was really interesting, and what was great about the interview was he also acknowledged that his biggest regret was his, you know, marriage breaking up and that he lied.
Guest:He said, I'm not going to lie anymore.
Guest:I have lied my whole life and I'm now...
Guest:Not lying anymore.
Guest:And it was pretty intense.
Guest:And then I said and, you know, he was the first Latino family on television.
Guest:And I said to him, you know, George, I my kids are from lesbian parent, Jewish lesbian parents on the Upper West Side and were addicted to your show, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it had nothing to do with that they were a Latino family.
Guest:It was a family.
Guest:And that is my point.
Guest:Just give me a shot.
Guest:My life is a perfect recipe for that kind of show.
Guest:And it's funny that it's such a traditional genre, and yet this family is quote-unquote non-traditional.
Guest:But when you really see it, it's funny.
Marc:And are people... Have you taken meetings...
Marc:About it?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:I'm hoping that you do.
Guest:I mean, we have in the past, but yeah, I'm starting.
Marc:Well, I love you.
Marc:It's nice talking to you.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I love you so much.
Guest:I've seen your penis.
Guest:Remember you showed me your penis?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:It was at a club, right?
Guest:Yeah, I don't know what you were doing.
Guest:I think you were going to the bathroom.
Marc:But now that I know about Phillip, I feel ashamed.
Guest:No, I like yours better.
Marc:All right, good.
Guest:It was too big, the other one.
Marc:Well, now that kind of, you give it and you take it away a little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you like mine better because it was smaller.
Guest:And it's more bitter and miserable.
Marc:All right, thanks.
Guest:I love you.
Marc:I love you too.
Guest:All right, bye.
Marc:How wonderful was that?
Marc:The territory we covered.
Marc:Me and the lovely Judy Gold.
Marc:Go see her show at the Geffen Playhouse through August 18th.
Marc:Come see me in Montreal.
Marc:You have a lot of opportunities to see me in Montreal.
Marc:We got a live WTF.
Marc:We have several stand-up sets.
Marc:We have a solo headlining stand-up set.
Marc:Go see me.
Marc:Come see me.
Marc:I'm me.
Marc:In Chicago at the Main Stage Theater next week.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get a little merch.
Marc:Leave a comment.
Marc:See who's been on the show.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:Got new t-shirts coming.
Marc:Things going on.
Marc:Next week's show is very exciting.
Marc:The amazing John Cale.
Marc:What a historic dude that dude is in the music world.
Marc:I'll probably be doing the intro for you from Montreal just to give you a taste of that.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Are we good?
Marc:I got to pack.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Boomer lives!
you