Episode 390 - Pamela Adlon
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
What the fuck?
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:Oh, what the fuckatarians.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Some people came up to me in San Francisco at my reading there the other night and said that the vegetarians, what the fuck, you get it.
Marc:You get the idea.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:This is my show.
Marc:I'm going to turn up my new headset a little bit.
Marc:I got new headphones for everybody.
Marc:Anybody who comes to the garage gets to put on some new headphones because I was in Austin, Texas.
Marc:And I did an event for Paper Magazine, and they were sponsored by Sennheiser.
Marc:So I said to the guy, the Sennheiser guy, the guy who's in charge of free stuff, the free stuff guy at Sennheiser, I'm like, dude, I do a podcast.
Marc:Why don't you set me up with some Sennheisers?
Marc:He sent him out.
Marc:I guess for exactly what I'm doing right now.
Marc:Would that be it?
Marc:I like free shit.
Marc:I'll take free shit.
Marc:I'll talk about free shit for a second or two.
Marc:Sorry about my voice, but it's happened.
Marc:I finally hit the wall.
Marc:I finally exhausted myself into some sort of bronchial nightmare.
Marc:Right now, I have that weird kind of...
Marc:kind of phlegmy, malignant laugh that turns into a cough.
Marc:Let me see if I can laugh.
Marc:I can't laugh right now.
Marc:Pamela Adalon.
Marc:Why do I say her name wrong?
Marc:Pamela Adalon.
Marc:See?
Marc:See?
Marc:See how it just kept going?
Marc:Turned into that?
Marc:When you get that, when you get that thing where you laugh, but you've got bronchial things going on, some part of you thinks, I'd kind of like to be that guy.
Marc:That's the type of laugh, that cancerous laugh that turns into some sort of horrible hacking is earned.
Marc:It's earned if it's there forever.
Marc:Not saying I want it.
Marc:Pamela Adlon, who you know from both Louie shows, Lucky Louie and the current Louie, and also Bobby Hill from King of the Hill.
Marc:She's also on California occasion.
Marc:Does Carolla show a lot.
Marc:She's a pip, a fireball, a fury of femininity, a female fury.
Marc:Love her.
Marc:Love her.
Marc:I'll talk to her in a second.
Marc:I'm a little beat up.
Marc:And it's weird.
Marc:As much excitement has been happening to me over the last few months, I see that people are digging the show.
Marc:I know it's a certain type of person, but there are people coming in, not just you people, not just you people that know me.
Marc:But now I'm finally kind of arcing out.
Marc:I'm coming in for landing.
Marc:I've got a few book events.
Marc:I'm going to be doing stand-up in Phoenix on June 6th over at Stand-Up Live.
Marc:And I've got some book events coming up.
Marc:Now I'm signing to see.
Marc:Yeah, I'll be reading in D.C., Washington, D.C., at Politics and Prose at 6th and I. That's on June 11th.
Marc:I'll be at Barnes & Noble in Union Square in New York June 12th.
Marc:I'll be at the Bryant Park Summer Reading Series June 13th.
Marc:I think the lovely Julie Klosner is moderating that.
Marc:I will be at the Harvard Bookstore at the Brattle Theater.
Marc:God, I haven't been to Brattle.
Marc:I saw Spalding Gray do Swimming in Cambodia at the Brattle Theater when I was in college.
Marc:Going to be doing a panel here in New York at the Paley Center on June 18th about Marin, my TV show.
Marc:Then later in June, I'm going to be at Helium and Buffalo and Zanies and Nashville and main stage in August in Chicago.
Marc:You can go to the WTFpod.com to the calendar section for that stuff.
Marc:But God damn it, I wanted to stay up there in the bestseller list over at the New York Times.
Marc:I'm not disappointed, but I guess I am a little disappointed because it's not even a matter of winning.
Marc:I just wanted people to buy the book, and that would have been a lot of profile.
Marc:I think we got it up to around 24, those of us who did.
Marc:You know who we are.
Marc:And then it just kind of went away.
Marc:Now it's not on there.
Marc:It was on the extended list at 24.
Marc:And I was hoping that, you know, I think about you people as a community.
Marc:And I think about, you know, there's a lot of you out there.
Marc:I see the downloads.
Marc:I don't know when you listen.
Marc:I just needed maybe 10% of you to buy books.
Marc:But I get it.
Marc:It's a chore.
Marc:Maybe you'll do it when it's a paperback.
Marc:Maybe you won't do it at all.
Marc:I'm not busting your balls for it.
Marc:I appreciate all the people that bought the book.
Marc:And I'm glad you dig it.
Marc:But now I'm back home.
Marc:I'm back in the shit.
Marc:I'm out looking at rings.
Marc:Yeah, looking at rings.
Marc:Yeah, third time.
Marc:Looking at rings.
Marc:Looking at houses.
Marc:But I can't handle it.
Marc:I don't want to burst anyone's bubble here, but I didn't make a fortune.
Marc:I'm not on easy street.
Marc:But she wants another bathroom.
Marc:I've talked about this before, but I don't, you know, I would never fucking leave this house.
Marc:I love this garage.
Marc:I know the house is kind of falling apart, but it's situated beautifully.
Marc:And now we're out looking at houses and there's some sort of ridiculous boom going on.
Marc:Every house you look at in this beat up old neighborhood has 20 bids on it.
Marc:Some of them are all cash bids by kids whose parents will throw the bill.
Marc:i resent them i resent anybody's looking at the house at the same time i am you know especially if i like the house because then you're thinking like oh you're the fuck you're who i'm up against huh it's me and you buddy it's not even the case it's all aggravating and overwhelming why can't i just stay here why can't i just die in my garage of old age why can't that be the way it goes now i'm back in the shit with the cats
Marc:LaFonda, something wrong with her eye.
Marc:Her eye's changing color.
Marc:That can't be good.
Marc:I don't want to Google it because I know that can't be good.
Marc:So I got to bring her in.
Marc:It's been going on for like three years.
Marc:I hope it's not one of those things I could have nipped in the bud earlier.
Marc:But being a bad cat daddy...
Marc:I just sort of like, well, she's saying her energy's good.
Marc:I mean, it seems okay.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:Got to bring her in for that, and I'm sure that'll be sort of like, oh, yeah, this has gone too far.
Marc:This cat now has this thing, and it's only a matter of time.
Marc:Fucking heartbreaking.
Marc:Monkey's eye is leaking.
Marc:Just caked up black crap in one of his eyes every day.
Marc:I don't know if it's an allergic thing or...
Marc:You just don't understand what a pain in the ass it is to get these cats into a cage.
Marc:You do not understand what a pain it is to get wild fucking cats into a cage.
Marc:Got to set it out there a day before and get them acclimated to it and then one shot at getting them into the cage.
Marc:But I'm back.
Marc:I'm at home and I'm dealing with the stresses of being home.
Marc:I have to learn how to be at home for a while.
Marc:I have to learn how to sort of have a life outside of a hotel room.
Marc:I have to learn how to sort of come down off of this amplified life I've been living, running around, doing shows, doing readings.
Marc:I have to crash myself.
Marc:I have to enter the depressive postpartum depression of all the excitement and also yet still enjoy what's happening for me.
Marc:That's going to be a struggle.
Marc:Not a struggle that I'm complaining about, but it will be what it's going to be.
Marc:Look, I'm going to start leveling off and we'll start having more in-depth conversations about what is happening, okay?
Marc:Just to get you in the loop, I'm looking for engagement rings.
Marc:I have till July to start trying to impregnate my girlfriend.
Marc:There's a schedule at hand where she's going to leave me.
Marc:This is all very exciting stuff.
Marc:I know I might not be talking about it in the right way, but there's an ultimatum on the table.
Marc:Look, we got to do this or I'm out of here.
Marc:Also, there's a house problem.
Marc:What am I getting into?
Marc:You know?
Marc:There are those moments, man, where you think like, well, if I was alone, I wouldn't have to do anything.
Marc:I wouldn't have to change my life at all.
Marc:I could just live in this redundant cycle of what I do for the rest of my life.
Marc:Just spinning the same goddamn plates, spiraling down the same personal drain for the rest of my life.
Marc:You know, that's my comfort zone.
Marc:That's my comfort zone is this weird lap I'm taking.
Marc:This panicky lap around my mental processes.
Marc:That's my comfort zone.
Marc:Cycles.
Marc:Cycles are comforting.
Marc:Hey, I know what I'm getting into.
Marc:Look, here it comes again.
Marc:Yep, that was fun.
Marc:Now this stinks.
Marc:Ugh, I'm an asshole.
Marc:I gotta shake things up.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:Ugh, now it stinks.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:There's got to be more to it, man.
Marc:I had to get my pilot's license or something, you know?
Marc:I should go learn how to scuba dive.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Perhaps I should take a language class.
Marc:Maybe something like that.
Marc:Shake it up a little bit.
Marc:That's not very exciting.
Marc:Maybe I should drive a NASCAR.
Marc:Yeah, I could drive NASCAR.
Marc:Or maybe I should just have a baby.
Marc:All right, let's talk to Pam Adlon, who I like a great deal.
Marc:Fucking live wire, man.
Marc:Where'd you eat?
Marc:What happened?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I went to this place.
Marc:You went to the Hawaiian barbecue place?
Guest:Yeah, I'm starving.
Guest:I'm so starving.
Marc:Out of all the places?
Guest:One more mile, you could have even... I didn't understand where I was, and I thought...
Guest:I don't know where this is.
Marc:Do you think you're in Hawaii?
Guest:They said mahalo to me.
Marc:Who the fuck eats that shit?
Marc:What did you get there?
Guest:I knew you were going to shit on me for going in there.
Marc:I'm not going to shit on you.
Marc:I've never been in there.
Marc:When I saw that it opened, I was like, well, that's exciting, I guess, if you like that.
Guest:That bothers, that's better.
Marc:You like seeing a microphone aside from a floating Target bag?
Marc:That I put on my microphone?
Marc:I'm weird like that.
Marc:All right, so wait, what'd you get?
Guest:I thought I was in my mom's house for a minute.
Marc:Your mom has microphones hanging around?
Marc:What does that even mean?
Guest:Everything is covered with plastic bags.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And she lives in your guest house?
Guest:She lives next door.
Guest:No, she lives in a house next door.
Marc:Are your parents married?
Guest:My dad is dead.
Marc:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:He died.
Marc:End of interview.
Marc:When did that happen?
Guest:He's dead.
Marc:Are you over it?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I didn't mean to bring it up.
Marc:When did it happen?
Guest:I'm okay about... I mean, I'm really sad for him because he used to be very afraid to die and now he's dead.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:When did it happen?
Guest:Like 18 years ago.
Marc:So it's been a while.
Guest:He never met my kids or anything.
Marc:Really?
Marc:He never... No.
Marc:How old was he?
Guest:60.
Marc:What did he do?
Guest:He was a writer and producer.
Marc:He was of television?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Big time, yeah.
Marc:Like what?
Guest:He was like a real journeyman, writer, producer.
Guest:He wrote everything from Chico and the Man to The Love Boat and Fantasy Island.
Marc:So he's a comedy writer?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you grew up in a house with a comedy writing father.
Guest:Yeah, my dad used to produce the Dave Garroway Show, which then became The Today Show.
Marc:So your father's like, he was at the birth of television.
Guest:Yeah, he was.
Marc:Modern television.
Guest:He was a page at NBC with Gil Cates and all those guys, you know.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:And my dad, you know, he used to write softcore porn.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:By choice or was that the dark times?
Guest:It was.
Guest:That's such a good question.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, just to put food on the table, you know, and he wrote under pseudonyms, Troy Conway.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Was he blacklisted after the blacklist?
Guest:Because of the Jew thing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because Seagull is my name.
Marc:Yeah, that's Jew.
Guest:And Jew.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he, you know, I don't know.
Guest:There was something about Seagull being Jew-y to Jew-y.
Marc:But this was in your lifetime that he was, or was he afraid of?
Marc:Because, I mean, he would have been around for the blacklist.
Marc:I mean, is that why he did that or no?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:It was before.
Guest:I think it was before I was born.
Marc:Well, that would be before you were born, but I mean.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I mean, duh.
Guest:Sorry.
Marc:Was there a time when Jews weren't allowed in television?
Marc:I don't think that's documented.
Guest:I went out with a guy one time who was surprised when I told him that the world hates Jews.
Guest:He was like, I don't think that.
Guest:Is that really true?
Guest:I was like, oh my God.
Marc:And then did he go, what, are you Jew?
Guest:Please just fuck me and let's not talk anymore.
Marc:Well, Hollywood certainly doesn't hate Jews, but I guess there was a time there.
Marc:Everybody was trying not to be Jew.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe in publishing.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't really know.
Marc:So he died 18 years ago.
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:27?
Marc:Wow, yeah, but do you remember like him?
Marc:Did you go to work day?
Guest:I can see you're kind of brought up in television Yeah, I was brought up on sound stages a well the Dave Garraway show that was before I am New York then became am New York and then the today that was before you were born, right?
Guest:No, I actually was um Yeah, Dave Garraway was before my time, but am New York
Guest:I used to be in the kids' segments.
Guest:They had a diaper derby, and they set us off, and then they had Santa Claus, and it scared me.
Guest:It scared me, Santa Claus.
Marc:Santa's scary, especially to little Jewish girls.
Marc:It's like, who is this guy?
Guest:But my dad used to be Eli the Elf every Christmas.
Marc:Eli the Elf.
Guest:And my mother is English, and she would call and be Mrs. Claus.
Marc:English Jew?
Yeah.
Guest:No, she converted.
Marc:To Judaism.
Guest:Well, she's a Jew now.
Marc:Right.
Guest:My dad ripped her out of Europe.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:He was stationed there in Paris, and they met at the US.
Marc:And he took a hostage.
Marc:He took a British hostage.
Marc:He did.
Marc:And kept her in Hollywood.
Marc:He did.
Marc:And she converted.
Marc:Yeah, my mom converted.
Marc:There are British Jews.
Marc:I was very shocked to know that, but there are actual whole-blooded British Jews.
Marc:So wait, was your dad around for that whole quiz show business?
Marc:oh yeah oh i grew up with people doing clickers in my living room right they were creating shows who what where all of that shit but like was he there with the big debacle of uh of that oh i don't i don't know because garraway was around for that i just watched that movie by going great right so they were developing quiz shows in your house in my living room you remember i would go to sleep with clickers because they would be trying to play it
Guest:They would be making shows in my house.
Guest:I mean, up until the end of his life, and my mom and dad were living in Alan and Arlene Alda's house.
Guest:They were great friends.
Guest:Their temporary house because my parents lost everything, and the bank took their house.
Marc:How'd that happen?
Guest:Was this the soft porn period?
Guest:He didn't pay off the house.
Guest:They owed like nothing on the house, but they couldn't.
Guest:The bank took it.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:How old were you then?
Guest:Oh God.
Guest:I was in my mid-twenties.
Marc:So were you living at home?
Marc:Were you living at the Aldo's?
Marc:Oh no.
Guest:I moved out when I was 18.
Marc:Gone.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Down the street.
Guest:So I could have a relationship with my dad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because we fought all the time.
Marc:Constantly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:About what?
Guest:What was the big deal?
Guest:Well, he was a little explosive personality.
Marc:That's someone like you.
Marc:I don't see that.
Marc:It's very odd that you would come from an explosive house.
Guest:Why?
Guest:You don't know.
Marc:I feel like I know you and it's weird.
Marc:It's one of these familiarity things.
Marc:I had to separate the fact in my own mind that I had no idea who you are.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And I don't know why that is.
Marc:Do you feel familiarity?
Guest:Oh, well, I was just, I couldn't believe it.
Guest:I told Louie that I was going to do the show, and he was like, I said, should I do this?
Guest:What is the fucking deal?
Marc:You guys okay?
Guest:He was like, yeah.
Guest:I was like, did he do something to you?
Guest:Did you do something?
Guest:He was like, no, you should do it.
Marc:And what else did he say?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:He said, you guys used to fuck.
Marc:As long as he put that out into the world.
Guest:I know you guys came up together and all of that stuff.
Marc:Yeah, we've known each other a long time, and we're good.
Marc:I was texting him the other day.
Marc:He didn't mention that you had talked to him, though.
Marc:So I don't know why that didn't happen.
Marc:I literally was just texting.
Marc:We had our once-every-two-month texting session and went back and forth, but you weren't mentioned.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I don't know what that's about.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But I mean, yeah, I do know you from both of his shows, but there's still some other thing.
Marc:I just feel like when you were coming over, I was like, I feel like I met her or I know her, but I don't know you at all.
Guest:I know, it's Marc Maron.
Marc:It is.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:And Morgan knew all about you, and I'm like, tell me about the show.
Guest:I don't even, I know nothing of your work.
Marc:Yeah, that feels, that's good to hear that.
Marc:You know, it's always good to hear somebody say something like that.
Marc:It's very humbling, voiceover actress.
Marc:Um...
Guest:This is fun.
Marc:Is it fun?
Guest:I want to have a show like this.
Marc:You can have a show like this.
Guest:This would be good, man.
Marc:Wait, now wait.
Guest:Tell me what you- There's a lot of fucking tchotchkes in here.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:Yeah, I'm the tchotchke king.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:A lot of stuff, man.
Marc:My whole life's in here.
Marc:But let's go back.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Can we?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:To your childhood in television.
Marc:So you got out of the house so you got a relationship with your dad because you guys fought constantly.
Guest:And then my dad and I started writing together.
Marc:Well, that's better than dating.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I wasn't allowed to date in my house.
Guest:I was barely allowed to bring friends over.
Guest:My dad was a little bit Meshuggah when it came to that kind of stuff.
Marc:But how?
Guest:He was super strict.
Guest:He was really strict.
Marc:How can someone in show business who writes off-core porn and loses a house be strict?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:He was just like,
Marc:Was it just because, like, why are these people around here?
Marc:Why are these people in my world?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I have things here.
Guest:I mean, for me, I have three daughters.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm a single mom of three girls.
Marc:Newly single, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, we broke up four years ago almost.
Marc:We're still pretty fresh.
Yeah.
Guest:Maybe, but when you have girls, it's like, it's been a hundred years.
Marc:Why?
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Because they grow so fast and they're little people.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, my oldest is going to be 16.
Guest:16?
Guest:You have a 16-year-old daughter?
Guest:That must be just chaos.
Guest:It's a fucking nightmare.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Get out of there!
Marc:Yell at her.
Marc:She'll go at 18.
Marc:So you can have a relationship.
Guest:Just kidding, baby.
Guest:Love you.
Guest:Love you.
Guest:Yeah, we're all getting our periods, aren't we?
Guest:Isn't this fun?
Marc:Is everything all matched up?
Guest:Mommy's got a whisker and her period.
Marc:Do you all have them at the same time?
Marc:Old or the other ones?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:The other two, no.
Guest:The other two are 12 and 10.
Marc:It's common though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's really fucking gnarly in my house.
Guest:It's not for the faint of heart.
Marc:How many bedrooms you got?
Guest:We all have our own bedroom.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Jesus.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when did you start doing the television stuff?
Marc:I mean, was it something like when you were younger and your father was in this miserable business?
Marc:Wait, tell me about hanging out with the Alders, though.
Marc:That sounds fun.
Guest:Oh, well, my dad and Alan were really good buddies.
Marc:He's a nice guy, right?
Guest:He's so sweet.
Guest:And his wife, I love them so much.
Guest:They said to my parents when the bank took their house, you can live here.
Guest:It was like their house they stayed in while they were building their other house.
Guest:And so they said, stay here until you get back on your feet.
Guest:A year and a half later, my dad dropped dead in that house.
Marc:Of a heart attack?
Guest:It was a myocardial infarction.
Guest:But basically, my theory is my mom let him die because according to lore, he went to have leftover Chinese food.
Marc:Is this family lore or is this in a book?
Guest:Lore of my family or the lord of my mom.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And he went and had Chinese food and he had his Leo the Lion mug.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he collapsed in the doorway.
Guest:And if she woke up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He could possibly have survived.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Had she known what to do?
Marc:Did she know what to do?
Guest:But she woke up in the morning and she was like, why are there pillows on the floor?
Guest:And she put on her, my mother's English remember, she put on her glasses and there was my dead rigor mortis dad.
Marc:Isn't that awesome?
Marc:How much did she sweep in?
Guest:A lot.
Marc:Like, does she wake up at seven and just go back to sleep?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Oh, he got up in the night to eat.
Guest:Yes, Jew from Boston.
Marc:Jew from Boston?
Marc:My dad was a Jew from Boston.
Guest:Wait, you didn't go to BU?
Marc:I did go to BU.
Marc:Somebody told me.
Marc:How'd you know that?
Guest:Because somebody I work out with told me that...
Marc:So you've been doing some research on me.
Guest:I said I was doing your podcast, and she told me today, and she's Morgan's friend, too.
Guest:And my dad's a BU alum, too.
Marc:I was on the cover of the Boston University Alumni Magazine.
Guest:Bostonia.
Marc:Yeah, this month.
Guest:Good for you.
Marc:I spent my entire life trying to avoid those fuckers, the Alumni Association.
Marc:And then I win.
Marc:I won.
Marc:That's a big deal to me.
Guest:I think that's cool.
Marc:To me, the heading should just be, fuck you.
Marc:You didn't think I'd do anything, did you?
Guest:That's great.
Guest:School of Communications.
Marc:No, liberal arts.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:I went to Sarah Lawrence for a second.
Marc:That makes sense.
Marc:I was already working.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, but you're thinking of a different kind of Sarah Lawrence, like the dykes and the thing.
Guest:It wasn't the dyke part.
Marc:No, I was thinking about the sort of aggressive, independent, bordering on hippie, arty Sarah Lawrence.
Marc:Yes, check.
Marc:Yeah, so I didn't make the association with the lesbian Sarah Lawrence.
Guest:I didn't go to the lesbian.
Guest:Well, I could have.
Marc:Was that actually an option?
Guest:No, it used to be all female and the whole thing that they're all eating each other out in between playwriting classes.
Marc:Was that true?
Marc:Did you find that or was that a different school?
Marc:Was there an actual lesbian school?
Guest:I'm still looking for one.
Marc:Did you eat anybody out during playwriting class?
Guest:God, I wish I did.
Guest:I wish I did.
Marc:Would have changed everything.
Guest:I was working and so I went to Sarah Lawrence for literally a second and I love it.
Guest:My oldest daughter has this thing in her head that she wants to go there.
Guest:But it's like the most expensive school in the country, I think, now.
Marc:They're all expensive.
Marc:So what are you going to do?
Marc:Send her a state school or a community college?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's college.
Guest:She's going to college.
Marc:Is the ex-husband at least in dealing with the kids and everything?
Guest:He lives in Vienna, Austria, so it's kind of drop-offs are a little bit difficult.
Marc:So he's not with... The kids aren't with him right now while you're here?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He's an Austrian?
Guest:He's German.
Guest:He's actually moving closer, which is great.
Guest:He's moving to Essen, Germany.
Marc:You married... Well, that's... Thank God.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Now I hope you have... I was like, what a relief.
Marc:So you married... Is he a Jew?
Yes.
Guest:He converted.
Guest:He did not.
Guest:I swear to fucking God.
Marc:You converted a German?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:When we were- Out of guilt he converted?
Guest:What?
Guest:It's so awful to talk about this shit.
Guest:He said to me, he wanted to get married.
Guest:I got pregnant three months after we met, and he wanted to get married.
Marc:Good for you being careful.
Guest:I know, raising three daughters.
Guest:don't fuck people and don't do drugs um how do you handle that meanwhile mom how did i come into the world oh no it's so hard so anyway when i said i'd marry him he said um do you want me to convert and i said to what so basically that's the story moving on and he did though
Guest:Yeah, but that was his choice because I dragged him to so many Jew things that finally he met this beautiful man that I knew who passed away when he was like 90.
Guest:He was like an oak tree.
Guest:He survived the Holocaust.
Guest:and his name was Mayer Ziering.
Guest:Good name, good name.
Marc:I know.
Marc:What did he do?
Guest:He was the greatest.
Guest:He was a jeweler, and he had a conversation with my ex-husband, and we were at Passover or something like that, and he said, where did you grow up in Germany?
Guest:And he was telling him, and he said, oh, I used to live there.
Guest:And through the course of the conversation, my ex-husband realized he was in a concentration camp near where he was.
Guest:he grew up and grew up so it kind of you know hit him really hard and he had that self-hating german thing so his conversion was purely on his own i i would never i mean i'm not even really i'm like uh yeah no i get it i get it that's wild yeah so that was like this cathartic moment for him that is his way of making an amends to yeah the 10 million or six or none depending on where you're coming from yeah
Guest:or my one exactly so wait now when when did you did you study acting or what happened you were at sarah lawrence what were you doing there were you like dying your hair no i was still i was i was already working as an actor i started when i was nine and for real yeah in what
Guest:I did voiceovers.
Marc:As a nine-year-old.
Guest:Yeah, and then I really started working when I was 12 in commercials and stuff like that, and then in television, and then movies.
Guest:My first movie was Grease 2.
Guest:And my first pilot I ever did was Little Darlings.
Guest:And I, of course, was Angel, the Christy McNichol part.
Guest:And so...
Guest:Yeah, I was already working.
Guest:I was doing a musical here and they got extended and I had to defer my admittance to Sarah Lawrence.
Guest:And then I went and I just stayed for a semester because I was so into what I was doing and I just wanted to work.
Guest:But I loved school.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:But I was literally flying back and forth every weekend.
Guest:I was taking the red eye after the show.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's fucking nuts.
Guest:In my psychology class Monday mornings at 9 o'clock.
Guest:And I would throw lemons at the people from L.A.
Guest:and other substances.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:Well, I would be in L.A.
Guest:on Sunday.
Guest:I'd grab lemons off the tree and throw them at the girls in Bronxville on Monday morning.
Marc:From L.A.
Marc:to remind them where they come from?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's sweet.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:Now, did your dad get you into this racket?
No.
Guest:No, I just was very attracted to it and I wanted to be a part of it.
Guest:And, you know, I mean, my dad did like this crazy show, like the Archie, like he did all these specials and he did this one show, like based on the Archie comics.
Guest:And it was like, it was a musical and it was with Audrey and Judy Landers and all these random people.
Guest:And James Comack produced it.
Marc:I don't know who that is.
Guest:He was Welcome Back, Cotter.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And, you know, that old school kind of guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I would walk around with a script folder and a scarf around my neck and be like, you know, want to be a producer like my dad.
Marc:When you were what?
Marc:How old?
Marc:10, 12, 9?
Guest:I was like, I don't know, somewhere in there.
Guest:Like really little.
Marc:Before you were 10.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just being adorable and precocious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, and I did the warmup.
Marc:For the audience?
Guest:I don't even think I ever told Louie that one.
Guest:Yeah, I would do the warm-up.
Guest:James Comack would pull me out and he would say, you know, tell some jokes.
Guest:And I would tell jokes for everybody.
Marc:Isn't that funny?
Marc:You're doing the little things for the audience.
Guest:Isn't that funny?
Guest:With my little scarf.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And that was before the days where they had some weird audience prompter.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like it was like the audience actually had some integrity.
Guest:I think they had a guy, but Jimmy Comac would bring me out and say, come here, Pam.
Marc:Pam, come here.
Marc:And what would you do?
Marc:Just stand there and do cute things?
Guest:I would be like, you know, how does a Polak put on an underarm deodorant?
Guest:Like this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, oh, boom.
Guest:You know, I know.
Marc:And they just thought it was so adorable, the little racist girl.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It worked out so well.
Wow.
Marc:oh so that was your big break so so even louie doesn't know you did stand up no no isn't that funny yeah so now everybody asks me and i'm like i never never yeah but i did i actually as a nine-year-old back when it mattered so yes so so are we is it safe to say then why am i framing it like that so you didn't finish college
Guest:No, I went for a semester.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:Enough.
Marc:And then you were a professional show business person.
Guest:You need a Swiffer.
Marc:Oh, there's a lot of dust in here.
Marc:You need a Swiffer.
Marc:That is crazy.
Marc:I'm embarrassed.
Marc:I'm embarrassed about this.
Marc:So you've got this kid who's 16.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:This girl.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:Now, how do you... I don't have any kids.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:It's not out of the realm of possibility.
Marc:It's very pressing in the immediate situation for me.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I have the opportunity now.
Guest:Oh, you have somebody who wants you to put one in them.
Marc:Then that's exactly how she puts it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you serious?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When are you going to put a baby in me?
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Isn't that sexy?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So.
Guest:Just fuck one right into her.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:I've managed to avoid that somehow.
Marc:And I am not pro condom in most situations.
Guest:I don't recommend it, but you know.
Marc:Why'd you have so many then?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:I mean, it's just, it's hard work.
Guest:It's so adorable at the beginning and now I'm in the trenches.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's just like I'm a rooming house.
Guest:I'm a chair at the end of my teenager's bed that she throws her clothes on at the end of the night.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's the best way I can describe it.
Marc:Are you getting along?
Guest:We all get along and we have good times and good days, but it gets gnarly.
Guest:It gets gnarly.
Marc:How do you talk about, like, because you've been through some shit, clearly.
Marc:How do you talk to a 16-year-old in a rational way?
Guest:And not say, fuck you, every second?
Guest:Yeah, shut the fuck up.
Guest:Shut the fuck up, you fucker.
Marc:Do you say that?
Marc:You do, though.
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:Like sex.
Marc:What do you say to her about sex?
Guest:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:I mean, I had her with this woman since she was nine.
Marc:You subcontracted the job.
Guest:A group of girls.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:I can pay somebody to deal with this.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:Could someone please deal with this shit?
Guest:No, I mean, I do what I can, but you know what?
Guest:Well, there's this woman, Gina Cloud, and she did these workshops called The Sacred Facts of Life, and the moms would drop the girls off.
Guest:We'd leave for three hours.
Guest:They'd write secret questions.
Guest:They'd all talk about things.
Guest:Started at nine, and then they did it until they were like 13.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then...
Guest:Some moms would drag their daughters in and they would say, she's not going to say anything.
Guest:She's not going to talk.
Guest:And then we'd come back and the girls would go and play and we'd sit with Gina and Gina's like, oh, your shy daughter asked me about blowjobs.
Guest:She was the first one.
Guest:And the mom would be like, what the fuck just happened?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Michaela, her friend gives them all the time at bar mitzvahs or whatever.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:So...
Marc:God, things have changed.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I mean, but this generation is... It's really weird because the 10 years, like, if you're talking about, like, 25-year-olds in Los Angeles, they're very, like, health-conscious, and they wouldn't smoke a cigarette to save their lives.
Guest:They wouldn't do drugs or whatever.
Guest:But my daughters, these kids right now who are growing up with this crack...
Marc:The iPhone.
Guest:Yeah, it's a nightmare because they're basically, you know, they have access to everything.
Marc:Yeah, you can't stop it.
Marc:Everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So these kids, there's so much drugs.
Marc:Porn.
Guest:There's so much sex.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're watching porn.
Guest:I say this to people.
Guest:Which is the simplest thing.
Guest:It's like, you know, the sky is blue.
Guest:Your kid's watching porn.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:No, my kid's not watching porn.
Guest:How could they not be?
Guest:I'm like, are you out of your fucking mind?
Guest:When I was growing up, my brother had a stack of wheeze and hustlers in his closet.
Guest:That was it, though.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my parents had all these old plays, and they had a copy of Oh, Calcutta, and I would look through and see the naked people, and I would be like, oh my God.
Guest:And there was a picture of how to draw, and there'd be naked models, and I'd fucking look at that and jerk off in my house.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Now...
Guest:are you kidding me everything everything yeah so these are the boys that my daughter goes to school with the ones who have just watched a girl choking on a car yeah exactly right exactly and fucking you know cream pie in the face everything yeah and they talk like oh my god
Guest:If you saw their Facebooks or whatever, they talk like they're 49 years old and they have AIDS and they live in the East Village, Old Queens or whatever.
Guest:I mean, I'm telling you, it's the biggest nightmare in the world that they...
Guest:have all this access so it's just like all i can say is you know know what's gonna make you uncomfortable if you're gonna if you're gonna watch something it can stay with you it can affect you it's like ptsd it's a fucking nightmare it blows your brain open it's exactly what it is you get some you get porn brain and also these these girls are put in this position where you have these guys who just want to get their rocks it's a nightmare
Marc:And they just try to talk them into it or guilt them into it or bully them into it.
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:Horrible.
Marc:So you've had to have talks like that with her?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, well, yeah.
Marc:Like 16 year old guys.
Marc:I can't even imagine that.
Marc:But I mean, I've heard stories of like 13 year old kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who are like bullying girls.
Guest:Well, because look at my 10 year old.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Her friends have had iPhones and Blackberries and everything since they were like seven.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And eight.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She just got a phone because I went to a five, so now my 10-year-old has an iPhone.
Marc:And this whole idea that parents can somehow put something in place that would stop them from watching it, most people my age or your age, it's like, I don't fucking know how to work that.
Marc:I don't know how to turn off anything on the phone I have.
Guest:I hand it to my 10-year-old.
Marc:Yeah, could you fix this?
Guest:I'm like, dude, can you put Spotify on my shit?
Yeah.
Guest:Can you give me Shazam?
Marc:So how the fuck is a parent, can you protect them from anything coming into their brains?
Guest:It's so bad because this is the thing.
Guest:When I say to parents, you know, your kid's watching whatever.
Guest:No, I don't allow him to have it in the house.
Guest:I'm like, he never goes to anybody's house.
Guest:You're out of your fucking mind.
Guest:Denial you know when I introduced the concept of Collecting the phone when they get into the house people go.
Guest:Oh, that's a really good idea Yeah, it is because they don't exist in the house I
Marc:What do you mean collecting the phone?
Guest:I'll take the phone now because we're home.
Marc:And you're going to talk like people.
Guest:Yeah, we're going to talk like people.
Marc:You do that to your 16-year-old.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Don't be on your phone because we're trying to watch Real Housewives and I want everybody's full fucking attention.
Yeah.
Guest:Breaking Amish, it's the final episode.
Marc:That's your version of what their phones do for them.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Feeding off the emotional vulnerabilities.
Guest:Long Island Medium is on.
Guest:Put it down.
Marc:People that don't know well enough to not exploit themselves.
Guest:We're having family time.
Guest:The Bachelor final rose ceremony.
Marc:What's your biggest fear with the whole thing in terms of what's happening?
Marc:I mean, what's the heartbreak of it all?
Guest:Penises.
Guest:You're just trying to keep penises away from your daughters.
Guest:I hate all of them.
Guest:All of them.
Guest:I was hoping for one dyke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One lesbian out of three.
Guest:How could you not?
Guest:I was thinking that my middle, she had a target boys department phase for about four years there.
Marc:And you're like, I got one.
Guest:And I was like, I got one.
Guest:And no.
Guest:No, sir.
No.
Guest:Black guys, please.
Guest:Like specifically.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's like, yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, Dyke is not out of the question.
Marc:I use that word with love.
Marc:I mean, she could evolve into that.
Marc:I could evolve.
Marc:Try it.
Guest:I could still evolve.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:I didn't have that college experimental phase.
Marc:You can do it now.
Marc:I'm sure that if you just do a little outreach, there'd be plenty of hot lesbians that would be more than willing to help you through this.
Guest:I like dicks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Marc:My friend Robin and I always say- You can choose against dicks.
Marc:You can choose against dicks once.
Marc:You can.
Marc:You can say, look, I'm not really attracted to this, but it seems easier to me.
Marc:And then I think you'll be shocked at just how difficult the vagina could be for you.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, listen, my daughter and her friends, we were all talking about it the other day, and they were like, mom, it's like this.
Yeah.
Marc:The scissor?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, oh, Jesus.
Guest:And they all know.
Guest:They all know.
Marc:This is not the 10-year-old.
Guest:No, this is all of them.
Guest:No, it's all ruined.
Guest:All the childhood is gone.
Guest:It's all gone.
Marc:It's horrible, man.
Guest:It's bad.
Guest:Once in a while, I'm like, oh, shit, they're still in their childhood.
Guest:Okay, go.
Guest:It's raining.
Guest:Go outside.
Guest:Have childhood.
Guest:Have childhood.
Guest:Play in the rain.
Guest:I'll show you a picture.
Guest:They had childhood in the hallway the other night.
Marc:You have to capture it because sometimes it's very brief.
Marc:I swear to God.
Guest:It's about as long as a Vine video.
Guest:Because I'm always tired and in a bad mood because it's me alone.
Guest:Here, look, they had childhood in the hallway.
Marc:Oh, look, it's a slumber party in the hallway.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That is childhood.
Guest:I let them have childhood in the hallway.
Marc:You forced them.
Marc:No.
Guest:They wanted it.
Marc:Is this the only area they can have childhood?
Guest:I was like, all right.
Marc:Have childhood.
Marc:Oh, because you didn't want to clean up?
Marc:Yeah, I didn't want to clean up.
Marc:So this is what, two of them?
Guest:Yeah, that's the middle of the baby.
Marc:Two younger ones.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They got the sweeping bags out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's right before they told you about scissoring?
Guest:It's oh god.
Guest:I hope this tape gets lost.
Guest:I'm in trouble.
Marc:Well, how are you in trouble?
Marc:No It sounds like you're a concerned mom who's got who's slowly losing her grip.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh my god.
Guest:I you know what I really felt that way and I finally had to switch my brain around to get things under control and
Guest:Because I would really have eaten a gun.
Guest:I mean, it just it gets so much pressure and it's just me.
Marc:And, you know, do you consider yourself a well grounded person?
Guest:I feel like I'm getting better.
Guest:Yeah, but I'm open to suggestions all the time.
Guest:I'm not above the fact that I make mistakes.
Guest:My youngest, she had a sleepover last night, and her friend, I said, you know, last night got a little kooky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, you know, we are we all, you know, sometimes we don't get along.
Guest:Sometimes we get along because my 12 year old was this and whatever.
Guest:And her friend is like, you know, her dad passed away and she's got a single mom.
Guest:She's like a pagan shit.
Guest:She's like, I love it here.
Guest:And I was like, awesome.
Guest:It's really good to get somebody else's perspective.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you're fun.
Guest:Yes, I'm very fun.
Marc:I imagine even when you're horrible, you're kind of funny.
Marc:Yeah, I'm fun.
Marc:I'm fun.
Marc:You seem like the kind of person that at your angriest, it's hilarious.
Guest:I don't really get angry.
Guest:I don't.
Marc:And your mother's right there.
Marc:Does she take them?
Marc:Can you just go to grandma's?
Guest:She can help sometimes.
Guest:Nana sometimes helps.
Marc:Push them over to Nana?
Marc:It's nice to have them nearby, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, when my dad died, I always swore and promised that I would buy a house for my mom.
Marc:And you did it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what's with the dating, no?
Marc:No.
Marc:You're attractive.
Marc:You've got a lot of personality.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:And you're charming.
Guest:I'm not into it.
Marc:You look like you'd be crazy.
Guest:I'm crazy.
Guest:I'm a lady in the street, but a freak in the bed.
Guest:Yeah, I'm not into it.
Marc:Yeah, but the whole process of it, occasionally you just go out and get banged, though, or what?
Marc:I don't usually ask questions like that, and I don't want my listeners to feel like just because you're a woman that I would ask you that.
Marc:But we're sort of in that area.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:I don't really know how to do it.
Guest:I'm middle-aged.
Guest:How do you do it?
Guest:yeah it's like it's horrible because everybody's broken by then yeah i mean like you know just like which sad man would like yes exactly which how do you sit down and go like it's like when you're 22 you're like well i went out with this guy and then i was with another guy for like a year and then i said another guy who stalked me yeah and so how do i fucking break it down now
Marc:Well, usually you meet somebody that someone refers you to or sets you up with or perhaps on a site of some kind and you sit down and have some variation of what went wrong with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, you're so right.
Marc:You're so right.
Marc:What broke?
Guest:I just met a guy like at the beginning of this year, actually, who's going through a divorce and we had a very nice time.
Guest:But, you know, he doesn't live in this state.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And then like if like at your age or our age, I don't know how old you are.
Marc:Doesn't matter.
Marc:But like when there are kids involved and they got kids and that's all other bag of worms and they got exes.
Marc:And then it's like, oh, my fuck.
Marc:I can't even imagine it.
Marc:My brother has three kids.
Marc:He married a woman with four kids.
Marc:And their exes are now married to each other.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:Well, that worked out.
Marc:That was actually a good thing.
Marc:The weirdest part of that story is the best.
Marc:They all moved in together?
Marc:Yeah, it's the fucking Jewish Brady Bunch over there.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:No, they don't all move in together.
Marc:They switch them around.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:That was smart.
Marc:But the kids, they don't lose any parents.
Marc:They just had to kind of accept that there was a switcheroo.
Marc:But I imagine that makes it difficult.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think that I have a whole different way of looking at that kind of stuff now than I did before.
Marc:Before what?
Marc:Before like when you were a kid?
Guest:Before I had my own family and before my divorce, which has just been just excruciating.
Marc:It's horrible.
Marc:I had one without kids and it was horrible.
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:horrible it just never ends yeah it's just like it's pretty it's pretty bleak and um so yeah the trust thing has got to be a little worn out yeah no there's none oh that's hard yeah it's fucking horrendous yeah and i don't you know it's like i i i go to i work out every morning and like there's this woman who's my workout wife i just touched my stomach for those wondering because i haven't
Marc:been working out.
Marc:So right when she said it, I immediately went right into myself and thought she just said, you look like you need to work out a little bit.
Marc:I thought you had a pain.
Marc:No, no, I constantly feel my fat.
Guest:Oh, oh, you're so not fat.
Marc:That's ridiculous.
Marc:Okay, let's move on with what you were saying.
Guest:So anyway, Elizabeth and I, we work out and we're just like, I mean, there's this woman who like had a baby six months ago and we're on the treadmill.
Guest:I'm like, she had a baby six months ago and I like push my stomach out.
Guest:I'm like,
Guest:I had a baby 10 years ago.
Guest:It's coming off.
Guest:I'm thinking about breastfeeding again because I hear it falls right off.
Guest:I mean, but everybody in our class, like all the women who are like middle-aged, like I'm in my mid-40s, like we talked, this one woman's like, I'm like a cat.
Guest:She pulls her skin up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it's bad.
Guest:Like what am I going to do?
Guest:I'm going to unzip my clothes and be like, here you go.
Guest:40s what it's all right so you meet some other guy with some you know sagging dick and it'd be fine here's the thing what is that when my women my age our competition is 25 year old women for guys my age and do you hate them for that no it's just the way it is right it's the way it is it's like a 45 year old guy isn't gonna want to fuck a 45 year old woman he's gonna want a 25 year old woman
Marc:Yeah, but that's all relative to whether they can get them or not.
Marc:I mean, and there are 45 to 50-year-old men who are tired of that.
Guest:I guess.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:I feel like I'm trying to set you up.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I have this whole thing about, you know, when Paul McCartney got married the third time to the nice lady he's married to.
Marc:I'm sure he's, oh, the new one.
Marc:The new one.
Marc:I'm sure he's fucking, like, that last marriage, he's got to feel like a complete fucking idiot for doing that.
Guest:Well, I don't know anything about that one.
Guest:The woman with the prosthetic leg.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The one who just took half of the Beatles money.
Guest:Oh my God, that reminds me of my marriage.
Guest:Anyway, so anyway, so the one he just married, she's like...
Guest:He was like 65 and she's like 49 or 50.
Guest:And my whole thing was, wouldn't that be, I said this to Louie, I said, would people be grossed out if Paul McCartney actually married a 65-year-old woman?
Guest:They would be like, ew!
Guest:He married a woman his own age.
Marc:Horrendous.
Guest:Like in a floral dress and orthopedic shoes.
Marc:Like I had this whole vision.
Marc:Not dyed hair, like just full on gray.
Guest:It's like you need a younger person, even if it's a woman.
Guest:Maybe I need a younger guy because it keeps you young.
Marc:You won't want to try that.
Guest:I don't want anything.
Marc:You and Louis talk a lot?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:That's sweet.
Marc:Yeah, he doesn't talk to a lot of people.
Marc:I'm glad he's talking to somebody.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He talks to Vernon.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He talks to Pamela.
Guest:He talks to... You're not talking about yourself.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:He talks to Becky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Talks to you.
Guest:Once in a while, he talks to the dinosaurs like Stephen Wright.
Guest:He made friends in the past few years.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:Robin Williams.
Marc:Jimmy.
Marc:So before you got involved in his first show...
Marc:How did, like, you know, you're part of this sort of comedy intelligentsia when it comes to voiceovers.
Marc:I mean, the King of the Hill stuff is like, my girlfriend is sort of like, that's the best animated character ever.
Guest:Oh, I love that she loves it.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's just, and that character in particular, you know, Bobby.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that was the greatest.
Guest:Steven Root is one of my best friends.
Guest:He played Bill.
Guest:He plays Bill forever.
Marc:He's a great comedy actor.
Marc:He's the greatest.
Guest:He's the greatest.
Guest:And yeah, it was the best job, I mean, ever.
Guest:And we did 13 seasons.
Guest:And I mean, they just tried to shuffle us in the corner.
Guest:And just the show was really strong.
Guest:And it was just so good.
Guest:The scripts were so good.
Marc:The guys who were showrunners on my show were there for a little while.
Marc:Sievert and Michael.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:Jammin' and glammin'.
Marc:Yeah, jammin' and glarum.
Marc:Yeah, I used to call them jammin' and glammin'.
Guest:Yeah, I remember being at a table read one morning and jammin', not sievert.
Marc:Was he making a dick joke?
Guest:He was, no, he, he had a Tupperware filled with cut fruit and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen.
Guest:And I'm like this pregnant with my second or third child.
Guest:And I'm like, did you make that for yourself?
Guest:And he's like, no, my wife made it for me.
Guest:And I was like, oh, that's great.
Guest:And I'm sitting there at work pregnant with my second kid and
Guest:my husband never made me a fucking cut fruit tupperware so that's what i think of when i think of jamming and then sievert did a whole thing um he was really mad because like he lives in valley village or something yeah and they were like making all these mcmansions and he did a whole protesty thing oh did he he was fighting the power but through all this stuff i mean i mean you did some regular acting on and off but you're really a voiceover person
Marc:Yeah, I really am.
Marc:But you're so fucking funny.
Marc:Did it ever just, you know, did it like bother you?
Marc:I mean, did you want to be more out there?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I mean, voiceover saved my life.
Guest:I couldn't even pay my rent.
Marc:Was the original idea to be an actress actress?
Guest:Yeah, oh, yeah, I was I was working like I listen I made like a quarter of a million dollars when I was like 16 years old because I was on the facts of life and it's For like a year, right?
Guest:Yeah, I did one season.
Guest:I did seven episodes Yeah, but like it was you know the girls didn't want new people coming in and it was a whole girls who are now like getting about 30 years old Yeah, I mean no it was you know were you like what I was six.
Guest:I was like 16
Marc:So you were sort of there with that crew.
Guest:I was obsessed with that show, and I was so excited to be there.
Guest:It was really an amazing thing to be able to work and make money, and I ended up supporting my parents early, helping my parents out before the financial hammer fucking hit them in the face.
Marc:Who were the actors when you were there?
Marc:Was it the final season?
Yeah.
Guest:I was on when Edna's Edibles was there, when they were at the college.
Guest:You know, and then my character, Kelly Afinato, I ended up robbing Edna's Edibles because somebody was like, you know, I'm not going to name names.
Guest:We can't have her be sympathetic, so they made me into a shitty person, and I robbed Edna's Edibles, and I was really rich, and...
Guest:I was supposed to be like the new tomboy, whatever.
Guest:I was excited to go, and it turned out to be kind of a bummer, but the money was helpful to my family.
Marc:And then what happened?
Marc:Did you do movies?
Guest:I just went back and forth.
Guest:I did everything.
Guest:I was on Star Trek Next Generation.
Guest:I played them in Talkin'.
Guest:I was a Bronze Age Vulcan.
Guest:I mean, I was on television a lot, and then I took a job in a flower store, and people would walk in and go, hi.
Guest:And I'd be like, can I help you?
Marc:Don't bring it up.
Guest:Yes, it's cold in here.
Guest:The floor is wet, it's concrete, and I'm not on television currently, so I need a job.
Guest:That's the weird thing about actors is like...
Guest:You could be really super famous and in somebody's eyeball, and then the jobs dry up.
Marc:You always wonder about that.
Marc:I mean, you always wonder about, like, what the fuck is that guy doing?
Marc:Yeah, it's like... It's horrible.
Guest:Do you know Carol Ann Soucy?
Guest:She's this great character actress, and she was in, like...
Guest:a Michael J. Fox movie and this and that and she talks like this.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, she stopped being able to work and it was like, you know, she started, you know, cooking and doing things but she'd go into a restaurant or a store and people would be like, I love you.
Yeah.
Guest:So you don't stop being known when the checks stop coming.
Guest:It's a really fucked up thing.
Marc:It's a heartbreak of show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't think it's particularly easy on women either.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:It's horrendous.
Guest:You guys just get better and more distinguished, and our faces melt.
Marc:But it's not easy for anybody, but it seems like Hollywood churns through women.
Marc:You have to pee?
Guest:I really have to pee, but it's fine.
Guest:I'm gonna hold it in.
Marc:I can hit pause.
Marc:All right, so you're back from peeing.
Marc:That was good?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:I used your round brush when I was in the bathroom.
Marc:It's not my round brush.
Marc:It's my girlfriend's round brush.
Guest:You have so many products and things.
Marc:She's very into that.
Guest:I want to meet her.
Marc:I wish you could.
Marc:She's a big fan.
Guest:Where is she?
Marc:She's at work.
Marc:She works with autistic children.
Guest:I'm obsessed with her.
Guest:That's really fucking hard job.
Marc:It's crazy hard.
Guest:They don't communicate.
Marc:And they don't pay her enough.
Guest:Pick the hardest thing.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like anything I do, she's like, just get over it.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:Give her a baby.
Guest:She's the one who should have a baby.
Guest:I'm really impressed by her.
Guest:I love her.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I love her, too.
Marc:I love her.
Marc:She's 29.
Marc:Is that okay?
Guest:I fucking...
Guest:I told everybody.
Guest:I knew it.
Marc:You told everybody what?
Guest:How old are you?
Marc:49.
Marc:See?
Marc:What?
Guest:I said the spread.
Guest:I said the spread.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:45, 25.
Guest:49, 29.
Marc:What am I going to do?
Marc:I've dated women my own age.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:What am I supposed to do?
Marc:I mean, I'm not looking for younger women.
Guest:It's keeping you young.
Guest:You're going to have a baby with her and you're going to lose 20 years of aging.
Marc:Or she's going to leave because I won't do it.
Marc:Or maybe my sperm is broken.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:We'll see.
Guest:She's...
Guest:Okay, all I can tell you, Maren, she works with autistic kids and she makes a dollar.
Guest:She's the greatest person you will ever know.
Guest:She's the best.
Guest:She's the best person in the world.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I love her.
Marc:You're going to make me cry.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm not supposed to cry.
Guest:You're right.
Marc:You ever cry, do you?
Guest:I'm on Californication.
Marc:I know that.
Marc:I was just going to get into that.
Marc:But do you ever cry, do you?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:My 12-year-old makes me cry almost every night.
Marc:How?
Guest:You got to come over and see.
Guest:I'll put a close circuit camera or something.
Marc:Well, what is it exactly?
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:You know, when I cry, I cry.
Guest:Because it's hard, because life gets hard.
Marc:So I cry.
Marc:You surrender.
Marc:It's better than anger.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I imagine there's a choice there.
Guest:Well, the crying comes because it's just a feeling of this is so unfair.
Guest:And that's what parenthood is about.
Guest:It's about trying to get past how fucking unfair it all is and give them what they need.
Guest:I need your girlfriend's patience and serenity.
Guest:But for me, it's like...
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Guest:I said to somebody that this year for me is about saying yes to everything.
Guest:I'm saying yes to a lot of things because I've been kind of in a little cocoon with work and the girls, which it's impossible not to be.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But it's the one lesson.
Guest:that I still haven't learned and I've been a mom for almost 16 years, which is don't take it personally.
Guest:Let it just roll off your back like water off a duck.
Guest:I take a lot of the stuff that my girls say and do personally and it hurts my feelings sometimes.
Marc:I guess that's part of being a little self-centered.
Marc:Not in a bad way, but I mean, even in a relationship, a lot of times people are just going through their own shit.
Marc:And sometimes they'll dump it on you, but a lot of times their aggravation is not specifically you.
Guest:You mean kids being self-centered?
Guest:No, I mean... Oh, me being self-centered?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I don't... Not in a bad way, but I mean it's hard.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I understand what you mean.
Guest:For me, it's... If somebody said... You know, if...
Guest:If somebody in my house, I'm not naming names, says fuck off under their breath, it bums me out.
Guest:It fucking bums me out.
Guest:I'm not sure, but I seriously think that my daughter said in the shower, fuck off, why don't you?
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:But it's a bummer.
Guest:If that's being self-centered, that hurts my feelings, yeah.
Marc:Well, no, I think to react as if it was, you know, to actually engage your pain in that, like, you know, saying something other than, like, that's not appropriate, but saying, like, no, fuck you.
Marc:I mean, like, if you do, like, Louis C.K.
Marc:does bits about this all the time.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But, I mean, I know that he definitely treats his daughters with respect, and he's not going to... Oh, my God, he used to peel grapes for them.
Guest:Forget it.
Guest:Forget it.
Forget it.
Guest:It's a thing that I don't have in me that I've never been able to.
Guest:I used to fight a lot when I was younger.
Guest:I used to get into fights.
Guest:Physical fights and all these fights, I used to just be like, hey, fuck you.
Guest:If somebody was picking on somebody, that was me.
Guest:But I was never able to stick up for myself.
Guest:really uh-huh you'd step in and make it your fight oh yeah scrappy that was me i mean were you a champion of the little guy or just jump in on the underdog champion yeah of the world that that whole hippie liberal arts cunt munching the war against bullies yeah
Marc:That was you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, in fifth grade, it was like the first time we moved to LA, there was this kid who had a sweater.
Guest:He was this boy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he had like, it was a long sweater with a belt.
Guest:It was a belted sweater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This was the 70s.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And one of the kids went, nice sweater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I turned to him and I go, fuck you!
Guest:And I turned to the guy and I was like, I really like your sweater.
Guest:And then we ended up getting together.
Marc:Making out?
Guest:Hooking up.
Guest:We did seven in heaven.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, we hugged.
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:We sat in the closet and he was like, let's hug.
Guest:I was like, okay, yeah, let's hug.
Marc:Well, you and Louis seem so like-minded.
Marc:How did you get cast on that first one?
Marc:I mean, how did he know you?
Marc:How did he find you?
Guest:I was the only not blonde person.
Marc:That came in?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I read the script and I said, this is crazy.
Guest:I thought somebody put a camera in my house.
Guest:This is for Lucky Louie.
Guest:Yeah, Lucky Louie.
Guest:And I just, I knew that it was, like, I could do the shit out of it, but I was never gonna get cast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then...
Guest:You know, I mean, you know, it's like a whole long story, but he really fought for me.
Guest:Like he really wanted it to be me because he thought it was just weird and real.
Guest:And, you know, they had all these blondes and all these hot chicks.
Marc:This is HBO, too.
Marc:You think they know better.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, um, I can't, you know, I can't even believe it.
Guest:Like, I remember like Louis was in, um, he was at a comedy club in like Peoria.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was testing and I was going to like sign a contract for another pilot.
Guest:And he called me and he was like, look, I can't guarantee because I'm fighting to get you to be, I want you to be my wife on television.
Guest:I want you to marry me on television.
Guest:And I was like, well...
Guest:okay but nobody was offering me the part like they wanted me to let the other show go on the chance that HBO would say yes to me and so he said I want you to marry me on television from a pay phone in Peoria in a comedy club in Peoria and I hung up the phone and I walked into the living room and my husband and my ex-husband and my ex-father and mother-in-law
Guest:We're in the living room.
Guest:I'm dead to all of them now.
Guest:And I said, I think I just got proposed to.
Guest:Somebody just asked me to marry them.
Guest:So anyway.
Marc:And he made it happen.
Guest:Yeah, he really did.
Guest:He really did.
Guest:And there were people who were like, come on, you'll find somebody else.
Guest:And he was like, no, God damn it.
Guest:This is the this is the vision.
Guest:This is my vision.
Guest:This is what I see.
Guest:And, you know, and we shot it at the original place where they shot the Lucy show.
Marc:Desilu?
Guest:Desilu, the original Desilu.
Guest:We would always call ourselves that collaboration, Pammy Lou, because we were at Desilu.
Guest:We'd have lunch in the place where we were imagining Ricky Ricardo was getting blown by one of the Samba girls behind the bandstand, and Lucy was pissed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:they were fucking broken up but still working together and so um but yeah well that was that that was the time he was trying to capture with the tone of that show yeah yeah yeah it's true and he showed me the pilot like he went before they shot the rest of it and you know he explained the conceit to me and i got it uh that you know this was basically the honeymooners now yeah if they had a little more freedom
Guest:The director, like, we did a camera test, and on the camera test day, he literally had every kind of technology available to him.
Guest:And the director said, please do not choose to shoot this on videotape.
Guest:I beg you.
Guest:Don't leave my balls hanging out in the wind, whatever.
Guest:And Louis was like...
Guest:That's what I want.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he had this whole big talk with Norman Lear before we did it, and he wanted that feeling of growing up and watching those shows.
Guest:And Norman Lear told him, he said, I had a choice.
Guest:I could have shot on film, but he wanted to shoot it on videotape.
Marc:And I guess like it was hard to get that across.
Marc:I think it was harder than you thought it would.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's weird because a lot of people would say, oh, they put in a fake laugh track and it looked so weird and like the proscenium of the set, whatever.
Guest:And it was like, of course, we had no laugh track.
Guest:They had to turn the laughter down.
Guest:when they aired the shows.
Marc:Well, I think what happened was in the modern mind's eye, they didn't intellectually get what was happening and they decided, well, it just looks cheap.
Marc:Why didn't they make it?
Marc:They weren't smart enough to understand what was trying to be done.
Marc:Yeah, it's a shame.
Marc:But if that had worked, I don't know if we would have gotten the new one, which is pretty amazing.
Marc:So, Californication is a show that I don't watch.
Marc:I'm just being honest with you, I think we've built that relationship.
Guest:Yeah, no, we're real.
Marc:I mean, I like the posters for it.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I enjoy the cast.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:But I just have not gotten into it.
Marc:I don't have all the time in the world.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I mean, I know that you're in it.
Guest:I have a lot of reality shows to get through every night, so I can't.
Marc:Right, so like, what series do you watch?
Marc:I mean, let's be honest, you don't, you don't watch it.
Marc:All the ones I told you, Long Island Medium.
Marc:Breaking Bad, you watch, right?
Guest:I've never seen Breaking Bad.
Marc:See, that's crazy to me.
Marc:Not one episode.
Marc:Have you watched Enlightened?
Guest:Because I can't watch Breaking Bad, like, you know what I mean?
Marc:You gotta start at the beginning, yeah.
Marc:But did you watch Enlightened, my show?
Marc:I don't think it's for you.
Guest:Is that your favorite show?
Marc:No, but I like it, but I don't think you'd like it.
Guest:I love Laura Dern.
Marc:Yeah, she's amazing.
Guest:But I haven't seen it.
Marc:All right, so you haven't seen Laura Dern's show, who's a friend, so I'm not going to feel bad as an interviewer that I have not watched California occasion.
Marc:Sell it to me.
Guest:It's so good.
Guest:Oh, our show.
Guest:I love our show.
Guest:People have such a thing in their head about it.
Guest:They totally, they're like, I don't watch that.
Guest:It's all sex and fucking.
Marc:Why wouldn't they watch that?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't you... But, you know, it's... In the first place, I think Tom Kapinos is such an amazing writer.
Guest:And I'm not saying this just to promote.
Guest:I have, you know, I don't need to talk about it if I didn't believe in it, but...
Guest:think he's just he never gets props he's never been nominated for anything yeah he writes all the shows himself they're fucking great the dialogues amazing and just the scenarios like you read a script and it's it's like a movie it's like a film he's really prolific brilliant darkly funny guy
Guest:He just gets no props for the show.
Guest:I think because it's so Sexualized and there's it's it's silly but shamelessly.
Marc:Yeah, it's why it's weird everybody you know subverts that yeah, and then when it shows up to like ooh This is great.
Guest:Yeah racy fucking on a sink and it breaks and yeah, you know I'm you know fucking a giant man and a rape fantasy and Something you do?
Guest:yeah all this shit is what I do you know blowing people left and right yeah you know and it's just like um oh god I just said all the things and now my daughter's present how do you know they're gonna listen to this
Guest:Jesus, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what to say anymore.
Marc:You're worried about you talking about the show when you know they're watching porn on the phone?
Guest:Listen, believe me, when I'm driving carpool last year, I'm white knuckling because there's three teenage boys in my car with my gorgeous daughter sitting next to me.
Guest:I'm like, what episode was on last night?
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Marc:What, do you get naked?
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:It's like ass.
Guest:It's...
Guest:Just eating out, sucking dicks.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Sucking dicks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But that's not what I would like to talk about Californication in the way that I love the writing.
Marc:I think you just sold it to a lot of my listeners.
Guest:Anyway, it's an awesome show and I fucking love it.
Guest:And this season's really good.
Marc:What does your character do?
Guest:I'm a waxer.
Guest:I wax people.
Marc:You wax pussies?
Guest:Yeah, and balls and chests and everything.
Guest:There's a video online called Marcy's Waxing Salon and it's where I go to get waxed and it's me waxing all these people.
Marc:So you know how to do it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't do it.
Guest:Oh, I'm glad.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I don't think you should do it.
Marc:It makes me feel like a stranger to my own dick.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Even if I shave a little bit.
Guest:Oh, I just think that's terrible.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:I don't.
Marc:You're against the male waxing.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think it should happen unless you got a lot going on.
Guest:You know, at least clip it or something.
Marc:Sure, trim it a little bit.
Guest:If you're going to fuck somebody.
Guest:But if you're with somebody for 20 years and it doesn't matter and your tits are hanging to your knees and they're hairy, it doesn't matter.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Unless you want to spice it up.
Marc:It might be kind of scary.
Marc:It's always a little jarring when you're used to the unwaxed and they're like, hey, look.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was with a guy one time, we had crazy good sex, and this was in my 20s.
Guest:He was a hairy little fucker, and he would sweat.
Guest:And when we would be done, I would get up and I'd be covered like I'd have a suit of hair, because it would all attach to me.
Marc:So that's the kind of guy I might need to.
Guest:And I used to spit out the window anyway.
Guest:Okay, so.
Marc:What's the spitting out the window?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:You can't.
Guest:So talk about another thing.
Guest:I keep thinking about my daughters, so.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Are you happy?
Guest:I'm happier than I've been in a long time.
Guest:You seem good.
Guest:Yeah, I feel, you know, it's like the thing that I told you.
Guest:I started kind of, you know, saying yes and accepting and just being like, trying not to be bitter about my divorce and all of that stuff and, you know, how it's hard with the girls.
Guest:I just, I want to be happy.
Guest:I want them to be happy.
Guest:And yeah, I like working and I like my girls to be happy.
Marc:Those are the things.
Marc:Well, it's good when you have like even like when you're open enough to that where a little tool like saying yes or something is enough to sort of throw something in your head and be more self-aware and conscious of.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Well, good for you.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:It's nice talking to you.
Guest:Nice talking to you too.
Thank you.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:What a... Fuck, she's a piece of work, man.
Marc:That is the definition of pip, isn't it?
Marc:Love her.
Marc:Had a great... I love talking to her.
Marc:All right, go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Over there, get the WTF blend.
Marc:I get a little on the back end of that.
Marc:Leave a comment.
Marc:Buy some merch.
Marc:Got some exciting merch possibilities coming up.
Marc:My guy who makes my, I make a special mug.
Marc:I have a guy in Portland, Brian Jones, who makes a special mug for my guests that I'm thinking about making available to you people.
Marc:Hand thrown, man.
Marc:Hand thrown.
Marc:This is some art stuff, dude.
Marc:I'm thinking about maybe doing a little package with one of the mugs and a pound of the coffee for some bucks.
Marc:Haven't figured it out yet.
Marc:I got the mugs.
Marc:Gotta line up the coffee with just coffee.coop.
Marc:I gotta take those cats in the vet.
Marc:There's something wrong.
Marc:Their eyes.
Marc:Their eyes.
Marc:They have different things wrong with each of their eyes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Thank you.