Episode 373 - Ari Shaffir
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck is it?
Marc:That was a new one.
Marc:Where did that come from?
Marc:What the fuck is it?
Marc:How's that?
Marc:As if they're listening.
Marc:I know maybe there's a couple of a couple listening.
Marc:It is Passover.
Marc:Is it still Passover?
Marc:How long does that last?
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my show.
Marc:As many of you know, I'm a Jew.
Marc:Happy Pesach.
Marc:Another year goes by where not a one Seder I was invited to.
Marc:Not a one, but more on that later.
Marc:My guest, I guess it's going to be a little Jewy in a very sort of aware way, an upfront way, not the annoying Jewish subtext that many of you...
Marc:sense in me uh but my guest ari shafir is one of the great lapsed jews uh comics he's gonna be uh in the garage today he's got some shit coming up doesn't he doesn't ari shafir have some stuff coming up i should tell you what he's got coming up because he's a friend you can actually get his special passive aggressive it's at chill.com slash ari for five bucks
Marc:You can go to his website, AriTheGreat.com.
Marc:This is the same place that did Maria Bamford's and Tom Rhodes specials.
Marc:So you can go there.
Marc:And he's also going to be at Cheetah's here in L.A.
Marc:on April 9th with Kyle Kinane, Bobby Lee, Joey Diaz, T.J.
Marc:Miller.
Marc:So they're doing some stories.
Marc:They're doing some stuff.
Marc:It's a story show.
Marc:So that's Ari.
Marc:That's what's going on with him, and we'll talk to him in a minute.
Marc:What's going on with me?
Marc:Where you at, people?
Marc:Thursday night, I'll tell you where I'm at.
Marc:I'm going to fly into Boston tonight.
Marc:I'm going to do the Hooky Lao in Chicopee, Massachusetts on Thursday, then Friday night.
Marc:I'm doing a live WTF and a live stand-up show.
Marc:I've got the live stand-up show at 7-7, I think.
Marc:And then with Mike Lawrence.
Marc:And then live WTF, Boston style.
Marc:I've got some great old guys coming out of the woodwork for this one.
Marc:I've got DJ Hazard, who was one of the first comics I ever saw.
Marc:I've got George McDonald, who was one of the first comics who let me on stage.
Marc:He used to host an open mic when I was in college.
Marc:And it was one of the first shows I ever did.
Marc:And I've got Teddy Bergeron.
Marc:Teddy, Teddy Bergeron.
Marc:One of the funniest human beings in the world that completely burnt it down, man.
Marc:Teddy Bergeron used to call me the marinated man.
Marc:There's the marinated man.
Marc:How are you, marinated man?
Marc:For the young cats, we got Sue Costello.
Marc:I got Dan Crone.
Marc:I got Rick Jenkins.
Marc:So that's going to be an amazing Boston-themed show.
Marc:The following week, next weekend, it's the 4th, 5th, and 6th of April.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:My brother's birthday's coming up and my mom's.
Marc:I'll be at Crackers, Broad Ripple in Indianapolis.
Marc:I'd love to see you out there.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com, go to the calendar, and check out what else I got going on.
Marc:Jews, Jews, Pesach.
Marc:No one invited me to a fucking Seder.
Marc:Maybe it's my attitude.
Marc:Maybe nobody wants me at their Seder.
Marc:Come on, I can do it.
Marc:I know the story.
Marc:They didn't have time to cook the bread.
Marc:There was plagues, locusts, blood in the water, things, firstborn.
Marc:You know, okay, all we got is these crackers.
Marc:Hey, this apple stuff is like cement, but it's not.
Marc:It's metaphoric cement.
Marc:Here's a bitter thing to remind you of bitterness, like any Jew needs to be reminded.
Marc:What are the four questions?
Marc:Why is tonight not like any other night?
Marc:I don't know because we're sitting at this table with family trying to do this thing and understand it again with our roles.
Marc:Can we have a drink?
Marc:Can I have a drink?
Marc:Let me have a drink.
Marc:Passover Seders is really sort of where the seed is planted for most Jewish alcoholism.
Marc:I will put that out there.
Marc:I believe that if I can recollect...
Marc:Early on, 1970 maybe, I'm about six or seven years old, there's a Seder at the Kirsch family's house.
Marc:My parents went over there, Manischewitz, knocking that shit back, felt warm inside.
Marc:Felt warm inside, was eating a lot of cirrhosis, and I remember kind of like needing to lay down.
Marc:That's about eight years old.
Marc:So this is where it starts, Jews.
Marc:Jewish parents, know what you're getting into.
Marc:Know what you're getting into where you go, hey, when you, the father, says to you, the wife, come on, the kid can have a little Manischewitz.
Marc:It's Manischewitz.
Marc:No, she says.
Marc:I don't want him drinking.
Marc:It's not good.
Marc:It's Manischewitz.
Marc:It's a traditional thing.
Marc:Just let the kid have a shot.
Marc:Just let him do it.
Marc:Let him have a taste.
Marc:Give the kid a taste.
Marc:I'll tell you what he's going to be tasting in 20 years.
Marc:Depending on how far that slope goes, it could be another man's penis for money.
Marc:All right?
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:All right?
Marc:If it's a girl, fine.
Marc:A man's penis for money.
Marc:That's where that first sip of Manischewitz can lead if you are actually watering the demon.
Marc:You never know if you're watering the demon.
Marc:It's up to you.
Marc:Up to you.
Marc:If you got another Seder coming, it's up to you.
Marc:If that six-year-old kid says, can I drink some wine, Daddy?
Marc:No, you drink grape juice.
Marc:I drank grape juice last year.
Marc:Okay, have a little taste.
Marc:Just a little taste, Manischewitz.
Marc:Wife.
Marc:No, honey, don't give him that.
Marc:man it's just it's nothing it's a little taste thanks dad takes a little taste and a demon sprouts inside full of warmth and and confidence and and a feeling of well-being that a six or seven year old has never known before that's right you've you've you've awoken it you've awoken it happy pesach did i say that
Marc:Something like that.
Marc:If I had the Haggadah, if I had it in front of me, I could lay that shit out for you.
Marc:I could tell you the whole story.
Marc:Pharaoh was a bad dude.
Marc:There were some problems.
Marc:Boom.
Marc:No time.
Marc:Take the crackers.
Marc:You get it.
Marc:I don't know how much you need.
Marc:I will be honest with you, though.
Marc:There's something about the consistency of family and the annoyance of family and the tradition of the Seder.
Marc:That's what it's about.
Marc:Jews do a thing.
Marc:Christians do a thing.
Marc:Muslims do a thing.
Marc:Everybody does a thing.
Marc:A yearly thing.
Marc:A twice a year thing.
Marc:And the thing is established.
Marc:It's either established with tradition or religion or whatever.
Marc:But it's basically a family thing.
Marc:Everybody does their role.
Marc:People get to check in on...
Marc:who got born, who got died, who got divorced, who got sick.
Marc:Grandpa doesn't see so well anymore.
Marc:Grandpa's not really with it, but if you just put the fork in his hand, there's a lot of stuff that goes on around that.
Marc:And I remember years ago when I was married to my second wife, we went to a progressive hipster satyr right here at the Echoplex.
Marc:Yeah, it was a Jill Soloway undertaking and with the with the sort of boo, Jew booze reboots, you know, the people that, hey, man, we can still be Jews and it can be cool.
Marc:That thing.
Marc:And it was weird.
Marc:You know, his gourmet food.
Marc:We had a hipster rabbi who was like, hey, this is what I'm laying down.
Marc:I'm walking around.
Marc:I'm laying it down.
Marc:This is how we're doing the hipster seder.
Marc:Let's get the band playing.
Marc:You know, that kind of thing.
Marc:And, you know, it was good.
Marc:It was sweet.
Marc:But you know what was missing?
Marc:My grandpa.
Marc:You know what was missing?
Marc:My annoying father-in-law from the first marriage, you know, doing his version of things.
Marc:You know what was missing?
Marc:Family.
Marc:That's all it's about.
Marc:If you're going to do the Jew thing, don't try and reinvent it.
Marc:Just do it the way it's supposed to be done.
Marc:It's about family.
Marc:It's about an annoying tradition that doesn't even have to be put the glass out for the ghost.
Marc:elijah the ghost put the put the glass out for the ghost where's the matzah i can find the alpha komen i'm gonna get a quarter i'm gonna get a quarter if i can find the cracker wrapped in a napkin stuck in the sofa i get a quarter how come the ghost didn't drink its booze it's about family all right let's talk to a rabbi shafir what
Marc:Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.
Marc:No one knows who you are still?
Marc:No, I mean, a couple people, but like.
Marc:Why is that, Ari?
Marc:I mean, you've done everything you can.
Guest:Um, uh, cause, uh, no, I clearly haven't.
Guest:Some people know who you are, right?
Guest:Yeah, no, some people do.
Guest:But it's like most people don't.
Guest:I mean, you know.
Marc:From Rogan's podcast.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're the guy from Rogan's podcast.
Guest:Yeah, I'm a lot to a lot of people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So if people are aware of that, then they might know me, but otherwise, not at all.
Guest:So I just want them to see my stand-up and just, you know.
Guest:Did you do a half hour?
Guest:No, they're never going to come through with that.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I'm done thinking about that.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:Have you been on the precipice?
Marc:I'm not cool enough.
Marc:Now, wait a minute.
Marc:That does not hold true.
Marc:I've seen some very uncool half hours.
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:I mean, let's be honest.
Marc:They gave everybody a half hour.
Marc:I mean, now they're giving away hours.
Marc:Maybe you should just jump into that pool.
Guest:I stopped.
Guest:I'm just doing my own.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing it with the people Bamford did it with.
Guest:Chill.
Chill.
Marc:Okay, so you're going to record an hour.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're going to put it up on chill for five bucks.
Guest:Five bucks.
Marc:And then you're going to go on Rogan's podcast and say, hey, you want to get the guy who's on Rogan's podcast special?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go there now.
Guest:That's exactly what I'm going to do.
Marc:That's the way to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's like, I just want people to know about me.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:Come see me.
Guest:I'm just starting to be able to like go on the road last year and a half or so.
Guest:As a headliner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Clubs were never understandable now.
Marc:It's rough, dude.
Marc:You got, I mean, right now it's not, you know, it used to be you go out a few times as a middle and they build you out in the market.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But now like you better show up with your own people or they're going to be like, Oh, we tried.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But so I'm there.
Guest:I just want people to come see me.
Guest:That's all.
Guest:How's that working out?
Guest:Are people coming?
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Getting like,
Guest:20, 30% extra audience, you know, and they're there for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But even if it's like 10 or 15%.
Guest:Yeah, if you can get a third.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:Because then they tell the rest of the crowd to just calm down and shut up and laugh.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Like, it sort of turned over for me, too, not too recently.
Marc:You're pretty dark.
Marc:Well, no, but I mean, it's like I'm specific.
Marc:You know, it's not really a darker light.
Marc:It's just sort of like, you know, either you're going to get me or you're not.
Marc:You're going to be comfortable with the way I do stand up or you're not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But now that people are, you know, sort of coming out, like in some markets, like I'll still it'll still be half and half.
Marc:But as long as I've got like a third of my people in that room or two thirds of my people, that's the best.
Marc:If there's about a third of people who are just like, let's just go to the comedy club.
Marc:And they're kind of like, they wouldn't have known really how to take me.
Marc:They would have.
Marc:Right, right, right, right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But now there's like two thirds of the room are kind of laughing.
Marc:They're like, maybe we should.
Marc:This is a funny thing.
Guest:I'll get into it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Apparently, I don't know.
Guest:I just want 20%.
Guest:That's my number.
Guest:If I'm 20%, the show is going to go great.
Guest:We've been doing it for how long?
Guest:Convert the other people.
Guest:13 years?
Guest:Almost.
Guest:14 almost.
Marc:Isn't that bizarre?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:38.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, well, you went through that weird period there.
Marc:Like, I met you early on when I was still with Mishina at some, like, a coffee shop out in the valley.
Marc:And I was like, this guy's an elongated Jew.
Marc:I wanted to get into that place so bad.
Guest:To torture me that he wouldn't book me.
Guest:To the fucking coffee shop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a coffee shop.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And then I did it.
Guest:I was like, oh, this fucking sucks.
Guest:They all suck.
Guest:You could hear the machine going off.
Marc:You got to raise your voice to do stand up.
Marc:I did a gig outside on a patio at a fish taco place last night.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Like I rarely do those gigs, but if someone pesters me enough or gets me on the right day, this guy's like, it's hot, man.
Marc:LA Weekly said it was this.
Marc:Is that a storyteller show?
Marc:No, it's a fucking stand-up show.
Marc:Canaan showed up.
Marc:James Adomian was there.
Marc:And Julian McCullen.
Marc:And it was cold out.
Marc:I didn't know it was outside.
Marc:And I'm driving up.
Marc:And I didn't even know the place.
Marc:And I just see all these people outdoors huddled.
Marc:I'm like, oh, you've got to be fucking kidding me.
Marc:Was there a heat lapse by the stage?
Marc:No.
Marc:They were just sitting out there.
Marc:I mean, the show was fine, but I don't know at what point, like when I was starting out doing road gigs, you might show up for something like this and you'd be like, oh, this is fucking paying your dues.
Marc:And now it's like, this is cool?
Marc:I'm outside on Hillhurst Avenue?
Guest:Not when it's too cold.
Guest:That's the problem.
Guest:That was all the rooms you could get into when I started.
Guest:Where'd you come from?
Guest:Here.
Guest:I mean, I came from Maryland.
Guest:I graduated college, University of Maryland.
Marc:But where'd you grow up?
Guest:Maryland.
Guest:Baltimore?
Guest:Suburbspring.
Marc:Is that a suburb of Baltimore?
Marc:Suburb of Washington, D.C.
Marc:So outside of D.C.?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So D.C.
Marc:was your city?
Marc:Like when you were in high school?
Marc:Like, let's go to D.C.
Marc:Never really went to D.C.
Guest:Let's get in the car.
Guest:So there was nothing there for me.
Marc:So were you part of an enclave?
Marc:Was your dad, did he wear the black suit in the business and that?
Guest:Yeah, he was like borderline Hasidic.
Guest:But he wasn't quite Hasidic.
Guest:No.
Guest:He didn't have the payas.
Guest:Not the big hat, but the Yamada all the time.
Guest:But he'd wear the big hat on like high holidays.
Guest:So he had a special big hat.
Guest:He had a special biggie.
Marc:Yeah, the special, like there's only two hats makers.
Marc:What do you call a hat maker?
Marc:In the world.
Marc:You can only get that at the Hasid haberdashery.
Marc:But whoever makes those fucking hats, that's their whole business.
Guest:They're so stupid.
Guest:But did he have one of the super big furry?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was for the high holidays.
Guest:The super round, furry all the way around, but like hat in the middle.
Guest:Oh, so we had that.
Guest:Fur on the outside, yeah.
Guest:Do you know what it's called?
Marc:It has to have a special name.
Marc:Strymal?
Marc:The Strymal?
Marc:No, that's a name of something.
Marc:I think I might get in the wrong word.
Marc:So he had the big super Jew hat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like not just the brim, not just the standard sort of fedora style Hasid hat.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the super Hasid hat.
Guest:The regular fedora style, that was just a Shabbos thing.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But he had the high holiday Harry hat.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:Were you raised religious at all?
Guest:But he wasn't a Hasid.
Guest:No, he was not.
Guest:He was just sort of of that world.
Guest:So he bought that.
Guest:He liked the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Guest:He liked what he was down with.
Guest:Menachem?
Guest:uh shiram menachem shearson schneerson schneerson schneerson yeah the messiah that died it was tough for them that was tough for them oh yeah how do you how do you make that jump into you're gonna have to figure out some talmudic equation that enables you to accept that your messiah died yeah and he's not supposed to die it's like maybe he wasn't the guy 770 i went there once to pray i met him
Guest:Where?
Guest:Oh, in New York, Brooklyn?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:770 was like a holy term.
Guest:That was just the address of whatever street it was.
Guest:Of his temple.
Guest:That they were located on, yeah.
Guest:In Brooklyn, Williamsburg.
Guest:Maybe, yeah.
Marc:Somewhere, yeah.
Marc:So you were a kid.
Marc:That was a pilgrimage.
Marc:That was a vacation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're going to go with other freaks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And eat shitty food.
Guest:And shake hands with this guy who can't even speak English, I guess.
Marc:With the white-bearded Messiah.
Yeah.
Marc:But that's funny.
Marc:So your dad bought those kind of hats.
Marc:Like, you know, conservative Jews would go to Israel and always come back with the super Jew yarmulke.
Guest:Oh, yeah, the actual arm that came down.
Guest:Yeah, they came down a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, I had one of those when I came back.
Marc:Usually it was embroidered and shit.
Marc:It's like, yeah, I got the Israel yarmulke.
Guest:Super Sephardic.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But your dad went all the way to Poland 1850 to get his fucking business.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:That whole uniform is just, I guess the Jews got rich in the late 1600s and they said, let's dress like the fucking, the rich people of our time.
Guest:It just seems silly now to keep dressing that way.
Marc:But no, it's tradition.
Marc:Of course it's silly.
Marc:It's freakish.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But did you grow up in a Hasidic or an Orthodox community?
Guest:Well, yeah, it wasn't like all separatists.
Guest:It was like there was a lot of Orthodox families in that neighborhood.
Marc:But it was just a Jewish neighborhood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It wasn't all... Everybody could live there.
Guest:It wasn't like New York where they're like...
Marc:It's not like the Fairfax district?
Marc:It's all them.
Guest:Even there, it's not all them.
Marc:No, I know.
Guest:But we would annoy the neighbors and stuff.
Guest:We'd all walk to synagogue on Shabbos.
Guest:In your suits?
Guest:Yeah, and they'd be annoyed with the traffic.
Marc:But was your outfit, was it the black suit thing?
Guest:Or were you allowed to wear a leisure suit?
Guest:Yeah, in the summer you could wear like really nice slacks and a button down and a tie would be nice.
Guest:Just a suit for Shabbos.
Marc:But okay, so what'd your dad do?
Marc:Please tell me he was in the diamond business.
Guest:He was a jeweler for a long time.
Guest:No, he was not.
Guest:Yeah, he was.
Guest:Yeah, he was a jeweler for a very long time.
Guest:He said that, it made me laugh.
Guest:Yeah, he imported stuff from South Africa and Israel.
Guest:Import-export guy, but jewelry.
Guest:Yeah, that was his main thing.
Marc:And did he have, so it was him, did he have his own store?
Guest:No, he was just a wholesaler or something like that.
Guest:And then that was like later once he grew up.
Marc:And your mom, what'd she do?
Marc:Just hang out?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Now she helps out a caterer company.
Guest:She sold gifts to Hallmark stores.
Marc:Are they still married?
Guest:Mm-hmm, yeah.
Marc:They never get divorced, do they?
Guest:No, very rarely.
Guest:And you have how many nights?
Guest:I remember the Nathans got divorced, and it was like, whoa.
Marc:Down the street?
Marc:Yeah, parents are getting divorced.
Marc:It was like, what?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do they have to throw their yarmulke down and cry?
Guest:Yeah, you do the whole dance, but you do that backwards.
Guest:You walk backwards around seven times.
Guest:You're thrown off the chair.
Guest:You put up on chairs, and then you're thrown off...
Guest:They shake her father's hand goodbye, and they just take off.
Guest:You have to glue a glass back together.
Guest:Take the shattered remains of your life and put them back together.
Guest:How many sisters and brothers do you have, nine?
Guest:No, no, it's four people total.
Guest:Two, an older sister, a younger brother, and a real, real younger sister.
Marc:Did they run away from the religion?
Guest:I'm the only one.
Guest:No, my brothers eventually did.
Guest:He just got a German girl pregnant.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That should show Hitler.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We have one inside here.
Guest:Dude, Feldman said this thing that made me laugh so hard.
Guest:My friend, you know Benji?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His brother got a Palestinian girl pregnant.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And so the grandmother's upset about it.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:The Jewish grandmother.
Guest:Yeah, the Jewish grandmother's upset.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:There's some history there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so Feldman goes, just tell her that he raped her.
Okay.
Guest:That would make it, oh, yeah, cool.
Marc:As long as it was born out of violence and principle.
Marc:Okay, so when did you get out of the racket?
Guest:Well, I left in 11th grade.
Guest:I switched schools to a less religious high school.
Marc:But still a Jewish school?
Guest:Still a Jewish school, but non-affiliated.
Guest:But you went to yeshiva?
Guest:Yeah, and then after that, I swayed a little bit.
Guest:Didn't tell my parents.
Guest:I just swayed a little bit in 11th and 12th grade.
Guest:okay wait let's go let's get this straight though so you go to yeshiva so you can read and speak hebrew pretty fluently uh-huh understanding it's a little tougher sometimes now especially all right but you can speak it i mean i can't remember all the words right but i know you can read it pretty yeah i can read and write it totally
Marc:And the reason that one did that was were you going to be a professional Jew of some kind?
Guest:It was just, no, it's not like rabbinical school.
Guest:It's just a seminary where you just learn about the faith.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, some people went on to become rabbis after that, but it wasn't even like about that.
Guest:It was just.
Guest:That's where you went to school to get the proper Jewish education.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of people did that for a year or sometimes two years after high school and before college.
Guest:Oh, that's when you went?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, you didn't go as a kid?
Marc:Mm-mm.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, I've been there as a kid because my father's family's from there.
Marc:But what were your first... When you were still brainwashed, what was the goal?
Marc:I mean, what were you going to do in your mind as a child?
Marc:Like, I'm going to take this Jew thing to the next level and...
Guest:Yeah, that's what it was.
Guest:Just take it to the next level.
Guest:Whatever that is.
Guest:Because I started keeping kosher again.
Guest:I went for the second half of 12th grade.
Guest:We went as a school.
Guest:And then I found they just take a double period of English.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then go for the second semester.
Guest:And so then I'm like, yeah, I'm going to come back.
Guest:I'm going to do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was so easy to keep kosher and I could succeed at this thing.
Guest:It was one of the first things I succeeded at.
Marc:At keeping kosher and being a Jew?
Guest:Being a Jew, yeah.
Guest:So I could just sit and study.
Guest:There were no grades.
Guest:As long as I sat there and just...
Guest:You know, kept reading the book.
Marc:They're like, you're doing great.
Marc:You grew up in a kosher house?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's still kosher when you go back.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I don't smuggle anything in if that's where you're going to have it.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Marc:But like, it's always weird to me that, you know, the two sinks, the two sets of knives, the two sets of plates.
Guest:Two dishwashers.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, the upper middle class will do that.
Guest:Middle class, upper middle class, the ortho.
Guest:Because it's so hard to keep them together.
Guest:You can't.
Guest:You can't keep them in the same stuff.
Guest:So either you wash your dairy dishes or your flesh dishes.
Marc:But how did, like, I don't know how long it took so, how did it take so long for that to become fucking ridiculous?
Guest:Once I realized that I didn't believe in any of that, I didn't believe in God, then it became like...
Guest:Oh, well, then why am I doing any of this?
Guest:It seems like a lot of work.
Guest:My friends would make fun of me in high school when I switched.
Guest:They would always be like, how was your Saturday, Ari?
Guest:Did you get a lot of reading done?
Guest:Did you do nothing and just read?
Guest:You mean you're less Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, yeah, this is very boring.
Marc:Pre-torn toilet paper?
Guest:No, tissues.
Guest:Oh, that's how you did it.
Guest:For Shabbos.
Guest:Yeah, you just get the tissue packs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I forgot about that.
Guest:Yeah, you can't tear toilet paper.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But we did that too in Israel.
Guest:Sometimes we would pre-tear toilet paper ahead of time.
Guest:For Saturday.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Got a bunch of them.
Marc:That's what getting ready for the weekend is.
Guest:Because you can't rip things.
Guest:If you're taking off a cap of a thing of Coke, you know how sometimes it comes up, but it doesn't completely separate?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can't pull it all the way off.
Guest:You're already able to use it for food.
Guest:So now you're just slapping God in the face.
Guest:And you believe it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All that stuff made sense.
Guest:It was all based in logic.
Guest:Logic based on bullshit.
Guest:Based on bullshit, yes.
Guest:But it was all like based on this bullshit.
Guest:What can we realistically infer?
Marc:Right.
Marc:We believe the bullshit.
Marc:So this is what we need to do to buttress the bullshit.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Once I realized I didn't believe in God, then it was like I was at Yeshiva University.
Guest:I just come back.
Marc:So you, okay, so you were, oh, after one year of college?
Guest:Two years, right, midway through the first year of college.
Guest:Two years after Israel, two years of Israel.
Marc:Oh, so you were, oh, you actually went to Jerusalem.
Guest:Lived in Jerusalem for a couple years.
Marc:Right after high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So after two years, and, oh, so yeshiva was the college.
Marc:You're actually talking about the university.
Guest:Yeshiva University, yeah.
Marc:Not a yeshiva, because yeshiva is just.
Guest:Well, I went to a yeshiva for two years in Israel.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I came back and went to a yeshiva university.
Marc:So that's what they do.
Marc:So that's part of the training.
Guest:You come back.
Marc:You leave high school.
Marc:You go to Israel.
Marc:You do the yeshiva for two years.
Guest:One or two.
Guest:And you were there for two?
Guest:If you go to year two, then it's like, ooh, Shanah Bet.
Guest:Which is?
Guest:Year B. Oh, okay.
Guest:Then it's like, whoa, you're even more religious.
Guest:Yeah, you're really in.
Marc:So you went to two.
Guest:Yeah, but by then I had already started like oversleeping like prayer services and then just telling everybody I went to the super early minion like at the crack of dawn and then I went back to sleep just lying.
Guest:Already I should have known right then.
Marc:But I don't want to condescend it too much because I think that the discipline and the tradition and all that stuff obviously is what keeps them together.
Marc:It's a little freakish and whatever, but I'm not going to dismantle beliefs or whatever.
Marc:It's freakish to me.
Marc:But was there a time, because as a Jew, I know that I was never really... No one ever instilled the fear of God in me or the ability to use God.
Marc:And I imagine if you understood the prayers and the idea of suspending your disbelief in order to believe...
Marc:Was it just taken for granted or was it active with you?
Marc:I think it was taken for granted.
Marc:So it wasn't like, I need God.
Guest:Yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do, so I'm doing it.
Guest:My dad had a rebirth of faith, so in fourth grade he became religious again.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:He was conservative-ish for a while and then was like, now let's start being religious again.
Guest:So suddenly he was like, okay, this is what we're doing.
Marc:Yeah, now it's time to get the second dishwasher.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:Yeah, it's like, I guess we'll do that.
Guest:Need new plates.
Guest:But yeah, I just took it for granted.
Guest:I didn't even think about it.
Guest:And it was like, that's just what you do.
Guest:Whatever you're raised with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's just what you do.
Guest:You were raised with nothing?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I was bar mitzvahed.
Marc:I went to Hebrew school.
Marc:And I went, but there was never any real attempt to get us to engage with the Hebrew and what it meant.
Marc:In order to sort of believe in God, you sort of have to be afraid of God.
Marc:And you have to believe the idea that, you know, God is the prime mover here that, you know, this is all God's work.
Marc:I don't know that that was ever instilled in me.
Marc:You know, at some point, your worldview has to be based on the fact that God created the world.
Marc:And that makes him a pretty important fucking guy or whatever it is.
Marc:But, you know, I just remember sort of like, yeah, we were Jewish.
Marc:We lit candles.
Marc:I went to Hebrew school.
Marc:I fought.
Marc:A lot.
Marc:I mean, I made a lot of Hebrew school teachers cry because I was such an asshole.
Marc:Because as a conservative Jew, I mean, being Jewish was part of it.
Marc:And you should have some rudimentary sense of God.
Marc:But I really think it was more of a, I don't know, maybe I think conservative Judaism was sort of invented when, you know, the Jews started to make money in America and move out to the suburbs.
Marc:And they realized, you know.
Marc:And they didn't want to do all this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they still wanted some connection.
Marc:Yeah, and community.
Marc:We look down on conservative Jews.
Marc:What do you think of reformed Jews?
Guest:Not even real Jews.
Guest:That's ridiculous.
Guest:Although.
Guest:Dismissed completely.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They're the ones that had female rabbis, right?
Guest:Female rabbis.
Guest:Couldn't wrap our heads around it.
Guest:In my non-affiliated high school, we had one by Jan.
Guest:And we just tortured her.
Guest:She was like a chubby, in the closet lesbian.
Guest:And it was just like, she was never, we were just never going to respect her.
Marc:There's guitars, and sometimes there's organ music.
Guest:What is all this?
Marc:Well, no, the conservatives look down on the reform, and the conservatives look at the orthodox, and I'm like, I guess, I'm glad they're doing what they gotta do.
Guest:I could never do that.
Marc:No, I mean, I think a lot of my dad's generation were brought up orthodox.
Marc:Yeah, they make certain rules.
Marc:They're like, I keep kosher in the house.
Marc:What's that?
Marc:There was no rule for that.
Marc:Yeah, my brother's sort of a hippie Jew.
Marc:He was kosher for a while, and then he tried to eat kosher, and I'm like, why don't you just fucking eat?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Stop.
Guest:My ex-roommate used to, on Passover, he used to mash down bread so it would be flat when he'd eat it.
Guest:That was his way.
Guest:That was his matzo?
Guest:I'm like, that's just not it at all.
Guest:That's not the rule.
Guest:He goes, but I'm doing a little something.
Guest:I'm like, no, you're not.
Guest:You're just eating flat wrong stuff.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:It's this idea that you have to try in some way.
Guest:Just make it look like matzo?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eat flattened bread?
Guest:That's not it all.
Guest:Or eat crackers.
Guest:I'm like, that's also wrong.
Guest:It's unleavened bread.
Guest:That's the rule.
Guest:Crackers.
Guest:Come on, matzo's a cracker.
Guest:What does it got to be an ordained cracker for?
Guest:He's like, yeah, so you're just going to eat like full like loaf or regular slice of bread.
Guest:That's the same shit.
Guest:Man, we're doing the same thing.
Guest:he was conservative when he grew up yeah i couldn't understand it so what my feeling is you can't how do you how do you believe in god before somebody tells you like you're supposed to have this leap of faith yeah but there has to be a reason to take the leap i think the the the reason is generally just you know the the realization that you know perhaps for some people without it yeah everything seems pretty pointless right so then it's not a leap of faith it's like i need to do this for myself
Marc:That's a leap of faith.
Guest:Didn't you just describe a leap of faith?
Guest:A leap of faith is saying, I believe in God, even though there's no reason to believe in it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there is, you already have reasons.
Guest:Once you have reasons, and it's like, it's about, so what are you saying?
Guest:It's about like,
Guest:you just feel shiftless or something, and you say, okay, it must be God?
Marc:No, I think that to sort of alleviate the existential terror of being self-aware, yeah, that in order to infuse meaning, some people can't just, because that's where you get spiritual, is you look outside, it's like, look at the trees and the things in the ground, we're all part of it, that's, you know, like, if you can, if you.
Guest:The world embarrasses me, and I can't believe as a watchmaker, I was a watcher without a watchmaker.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's kind of it.
Marc:Either you're going to get it out of everyday life and be a spiritual person or be a practical person, or you're going to want some deeper historical context.
Marc:Like, if this is it and there's no payoff, this is fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah, suck.
Marc:instead of going like fuck that's shitty okay oh well yeah yeah that's it it's disappointing and there's occasional fleeting periods of happiness yeah and maybe maybe i can have a kid and project my bullshit onto him and he'll do a better job uh you know if that's not enough for you you might want to you know but also something so you can like well it's all for a reason
Marc:But I also think that there was the element of sin and the element of struggle that, you know, the whole I think Christian model, you know, is how do I clean my dirty insides?
Marc:You know, how you know, how am I worthy?
Marc:How do I be?
Marc:How am I?
Marc:How do I?
Marc:How am I a good person?
Marc:How are we supposed to function as a civilization?
Marc:You know, with all these messy, horrible people that are just, you know, one beat away from, you know, raping children and killing people.
Guest:As soon as you get rid of any authority or rules.
Marc:The whole thing's going to collapse into a fucking mess.
Guest:They're like, let's all just agree that we'll be cool even if we're predisposed to not being cool.
Marc:Oh, we can't do that?
Marc:All right, then we're going to have to make laws.
Guest:Laws are necessary because you guys blew it.
Guest:That's all it is, I think.
Guest:It's just stuff that was made up a couple thousand years ago to keep people online.
Guest:It's outdated now.
Marc:But, you know, it's pretty elaborate.
Marc:You know, that's with the Jewish thing and even the Catholic thing.
Marc:I mean, you get into some of the sort of mystical bullshit, especially the Hasidic stuff.
Marc:I mean, you know, you want to believe that they have some secret wisdom.
Marc:But if they do, you know, why do they look so stupid?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And why are they sharing with everybody?
Guest:What's your secret?
Guest:You can't tell other people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do we have to wear the hat in order to get the secret?
Guest:Available to you and your buddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I am.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Nobody else who sit there and talk about it and interpret it.
Marc:Well, that's the one good thing you get out of the Jewish tradition is that, you know, this sort of they put a very high premium premium on on education.
Marc:and discourse and debate.
Marc:I think that there's an active engagement, the classic sort of picture of just two guys, two chassids with their hands going at it, discussing.
Guest:That's all yeshiva was.
Guest:You sit with your buddy and you just learn a thing and talk for a while.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I think that's a very great thing about that.
Guest:That is nice.
Guest:I'm definitely able to break down
Marc:Right.
Marc:To sit there and talk about big shit, you know, in a practical way.
Marc:It's like, well, maybe God meant this.
Guest:There was something where it was like, if you kill somebody, you have to give penance or, I don't know, you have to give money to the wife, to the widow.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they say, you know, based on what your job is, you have to give a different amount.
Marc:So this is Talmud stuff.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:You have to kill somebody by accident.
Guest:Yes, by accident.
Guest:Right.
Guest:On purpose, you go to jail.
Guest:But if you're just shooting arrows and one gets away from you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You got to go over to his old lady and say, here's a few bucks.
Marc:You need some food?
Marc:Dumb rules.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also the sons or brothers or wives of who you killed, they have like a one month moratorium in order to kill you back.
Guest:By accident?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there's a couple of safe houses all over Israel, like six or seven of them in different spots.
Guest:I forgot about all this.
Marc:So you don't catch a random arrow?
Guest:You have a month you gotta be there.
Guest:Yeah, they're allowed, fully allowed with no problems at all to kill the shit out of you.
Guest:Even if you did it by accident?
Guest:Even if you did it by accident.
Guest:It's just a loud revenge.
Guest:But you could get to one of these safe houses and they couldn't kill you there.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I heard they got people on the inside.
Guest:I don't think it was like that, but they...
Guest:They had to make this stuff so people would have like, well, we need some way to get back at them.
Guest:It's like, all right, you got a month.
Guest:Go on a manhunt.
Guest:Really?
Guest:If you want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is orthodox shit.
Guest:This is straight Talmud.
Guest:Straight Talmud.
Guest:This is what we're all based on.
Guest:This is all reform and conservative.
Guest:This is all based on the same stuff.
Guest:The original books interpreting the Torah.
Marc:But aren't there people that sit around and go like, maybe this is not a good idea?
Guest:I mean, I think that we don't have that anymore.
Guest:So you have to be in Israel for that.
Guest:So wait, the Talmud.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there would be arguments about whether or not that should be allowed or not.
Marc:So the Talmud's like the constitution.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Guest:And then they had people just below that interpreting the constitution.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those are the Mishnos.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what your girlfriend's name was, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Not a Jew.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Ex-wife.
Guest:That's not what it was.
Marc:Go ahead and make her an ex-wife at this point.
Guest:She's official.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:Did it just become official?
Marc:No.
Guest:Oh, all right.
Marc:No, but it's definitely not my ex-girlfriend at the time.
Guest:It was deeper and more horrible than that.
Guest:That's why people get married.
Guest:What?
Guest:So they can say their pain is heavier when they break up.
Guest:It passes.
Marc:Everything passes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everything fades.
Marc:And then it just becomes these weird moments where you wake up and go, oh, I just had this weird dream and she was in it.
Marc:What the fuck is that about?
Marc:Leave it buried.
Guest:It's a synapse that fires like some memory of her.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but if you killed somebody, you had to pay the widow a certain amount.
Guest:Right, that makes sense.
Guest:Yeah, but it changes depending on what your job is.
Guest:And so then there was all these arguments like, well, does that mean, this is what you're talking about with the hands raised.
Guest:Does that mean some human lives are worth more than others?
Guest:And we had to like break it down.
Guest:And then it's like, no, but it's just she's used to living a certain standard.
Guest:So you gotta give her a little more.
Marc:So this is what divorce law is based on.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Do you ever get super angry about the divorce laws?
Marc:I understand them.
Marc:I get mad at lawyers.
Marc:Do you really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I get mad at lawyers for exploiting them.
Marc:Explain to me what you understand.
Marc:What, that one specifically, spousal support?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Well, I think that they were originally in place to protect the woman at a time where women were not necessarily expected to work or live the life of a homemaker for 25 years.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So that means did not necessarily put together a skill set
Guest:I get it when you've been a mom for 25 years and now you've got nothing.
Marc:Well, that's what I'm saying.
Marc:That's why those laws were put into place and now they're still on the books and they're exploited by lawyers.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So now the game is really how do the lawyers maximize their profits by extending the pain of the people involved.
Marc:It don't matter if she has a lawyer and you have a lawyer.
Marc:They're both taking the money from whoever has the money.
Marc:And it's...
Guest:It seems like to me the biggest hypocrisy any woman does right now is to support those laws.
Guest:Like for all the Jen Kirkmans in the world, it's like, you better be outraged every time some woman who's an equal gets a bunch of money from the man who's also an equal.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Look, you're preaching to the choir here.
Marc:Especially when you're with somebody who's like, no, I would never do that.
Marc:But that changes like that.
Marc:When you have the ability to.
Marc:Well, no, as soon as you go into a lawyer's office, you know, because they're mad at you, the lawyer's like a pimp, and they just get turned out, you know, by the lawyer, and literally, like, we're gonna run his money through you and to me and you.
Marc:Do you think the lawyer tries to get them angrier at the ex?
Marc:Oh, fuck, absolutely.
Marc:Not only just angry, but suspicious.
Marc:Like, he did what to you?
Marc:I've seen that before.
Marc:No, worse, like, he's hiding money.
Marc:Really?
Marc:It's like, you lived with me for three, you know, where am I hiding money?
Marc:What do you think, like, I've been preparing for this day?
Marc:I can't even prepare for next year.
Marc:Yeah, I'm sitting on gold.
Marc:I put it all in gold.
Marc:It's under the garage.
Marc:But yeah, you were divorced, but what, you had nothing?
Marc:It was all cool.
Marc:It was all just like, see you later.
Marc:But let's get back to the lapse.
Marc:So you just, basically, your lapse with God was you slept in and lied?
Guest:Yeah, my big laughs was I had this moment where I realized that I had a crisis of faith, like whether or not I should turn the light off to let me sleep on Shabbos.
Guest:And then a year later, I was still like, if I really believed, I wouldn't have been tossing it back and forth in my mind.
Guest:So wait, now your crisis of faith was just you standing off with a light switch.
Guest:Uh-huh, just standing over it going...
Marc:I think metaphorically, that's pretty right on.
Marc:Like, do I turn the light off?
Marc:Because you were literally turning the light.
Guest:Turning it off, yeah.
Guest:Actually, not that.
Guest:It's pretty deep when you put it that way.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:You should write some Talmudic essay called The Light Switch.
Marc:That should be it.
Guest:Short story about it.
Marc:And then throw a dick in there somewhere so you're comfortable.
Marc:So I'm okay.
Guest:You're probably the number one guy making me feel shitty about my comedy.
Marc:I just busted your balls out.
Marc:My thing was, I did to you what David Feldman did to me.
Marc:What did he do to you?
Marc:Which is oddly.
Marc:When I got to San Francisco, we were doing some gig for a radio show.
Marc:Alex Bennett, Live 105, they'd do these events and they'd have comedy.
Marc:Basic radio events.
Marc:A sponsor would want to have a presence and they'd have an event and Bennett would go down there.
Marc:And he'd bring a comedy show.
Marc:And I remember this was at a fitness center during the day in fucking Stockton somewhere, you know, outside of San Francisco.
Marc:And it was me and Feldman and one other comic.
Marc:We were literally performing at a gym.
Marc:And there was people on fucking gym machines, you know, like with an eyeline.
Marc:And it was ridiculous.
Marc:And like I did my show and Feldman comes up to me and goes, what do you got to be filthy for?
Marc:You're a nice Jewish boy.
Marc:What do you got to have a filthy mouth for?
Marc:I'll never forget that because I fucking hated that cocksucker for years.
Marc:Just for saying that?
Marc:Yeah, but look at him.
Marc:You know, that guy.
Marc:I mean, he's not a filthmeister, but I think he was saying, why are you gratuitously dirty?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was overboard dirty.
Marc:No, and then I think I said the same to you.
Marc:There's something about the Jew thing, too.
Marc:There's an elitism that I'm sure I have.
Guest:You're a smart guy.
Guest:Why do you got to talk about that?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:It's like, we're Jews.
Marc:What do you got to, you know, come on, put a little more thought into it.
Guest:But I let it go.
Guest:I thought it was funny once.
Guest:You were judging me from the back.
Guest:And I'm like, I can see you looking at me, Maren.
Marc:Stop doing that.
Marc:The back of the room at the comedy store.
Marc:The infamous back of that fucking- From that hallway, you can see people.
Marc:That is like the demonic jury of comedy.
Marc:It's the fucking back of that OR.
Marc:The lights are on.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You just see that doorway.
Marc:Like, who the fuck-
Guest:I would sit there when I was enemies with Bobby Lee.
Guest:I would sit there and glare at him in the back, knowing he could see me and knowing he was disrupting his set.
Guest:He's very sensitive.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:And just every time I make a joke, I'm like... So how long between your struggle with the light switch and stand-up?
Marc:So how did you approach your family with that?
Guest:With what?
Guest:That I didn't want to... That you were done with the yarmulke?
Guest:It was like a full coming out of the closet.
Marc:Did you have to turn in your yarmulke?
Guest:Like a disgraced cop.
Guest:I don't want to do this anymore.
Guest:Yeah, you put your gun down your badge.
Guest:My tefillin and my yarmulke.
Guest:I'd be like, there you go.
Guest:I'm keeping the titsis.
Guest:You had titsis too?
Guest:Oh yeah, every day.
Guest:Underneath the clothes?
Guest:Over a t-shirt, underneath a shirt.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Otherwise it gets sweaty.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:That's another weird one.
Guest:The tzitzes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because that comes from a law of like, if you wear a four-cornered garment, there have to be these tassels on the end of them, these specifically tied tassels.
Guest:But you don't have to wear a four-cornered garment.
Guest:So you only wore it to keep that mitzvah out of retirement.
Marc:The mitzvahs, how many mitzvahs are there?
Guest:613.
Guest:Negatives and positives are all together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Don't kill as a mitzvah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You'd think that would be just a thing.
Guest:A thing.
Marc:An understanding.
Marc:How about just don't kill?
Marc:You've got to write that down.
Marc:Right, so it was one of these weird things.
Marc:For people that don't know, including me, there's the talus, which is a prayer shawl, but there's also the tzitzis, which is what you see hanging out of the jackets of Orthodox Jews, just dangling tassels.
Guest:If you're running, they trail behind you, and really, it's cool.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Playing tag and stuff.
Guest:It's like a cape.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could grab people in football, buy their tzitzis, if that's all you could grab.
Marc:Is that the Hasidic version of tag football?
Guest:When you're just like, I got you, and you're holding a tzitzis?
Guest:You don't pull them out.
Guest:You pull the whole guy back with them.
Guest:It's the equivalent of holding a guy by his dreads in the NFL and tackling them like that.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:It's a cheap move.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think the Hasids are going to make it to the NFL.
Marc:It's just Michael Levy.
Guest:But what was the conversation?
Guest:I had to tell, well, I was in Yeshiva University.
Guest:It was 25 grand a year.
Guest:And I was like, if I'm not going to be religious or believe in God to myself, I was like, this is pointless for me to go here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And waste this money.
Guest:So I'm going to switch to University of Maryland to go to state school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had to list guys that need to talk to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I, I, uh, yeah, I told them I didn't believe in God and I didn't want to do this anymore.
Guest:Did your mother scream?
Guest:my mother was sad my father was way worse about it my mother wasn't raised religious right um she was raised in atlanta so she was just like conservative so she said she was upset a little bit that i'd lose the um the sense of community but my dad was he's like even a dog believes in god that's what he said yeah that's not true within a dog it's not even true
Guest:Yeah, I don't know how.
Guest:I don't never know.
Guest:I didn't ask him.
Guest:That was his big punch?
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:It hurt just because I was like, well, that's not exactly acceptance.
Guest:Even a dog believes in God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:God, I wonder where he got that.
Guest:He must be lower than a dog.
Marc:That's what he said?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Lower than a dog.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then did you not talk for a while?
Marc:It was hard for him.
Marc:To talk to you.
Guest:Yeah, and then that was a tough moment for like a while.
Guest:And then after like a couple months, he'd start talking.
Guest:And then after a couple years, he was like, okay, we went on a ski trip once.
Guest:And he was like, you know, if you want to get some fries or a burger, you can do that.
Guest:That's when I was like 20, 21, something like that.
Marc:Did he wear his titsits under his parka?
Guest:um yeah oh yeah absolutely almost definitely maybe not maybe not for like sporting events you don't have to oh really yeah we didn't wear them for basketball so what about yarmulke under the ski hat oh absolutely yeah or you just keep the ski hat on that could act as a yarmulke right sure yeah that what you're wearing now is fine yeah um but you'd have to keep it on right um at dinner yeah you couldn't yeah
Guest:so that's where so that was where the acceptance finally happened on the slopes of uh of where yeah and then we tried also to tell my brothers and sisters and they don't care yeah my little sister gets she's the most religious like when i curse around her kids she's like hurry stop it yeah but she doesn't really care um but uh they were making fun of my dad once because the last thing he was holding on to was me dating jewish girls and that was instantly gone yeah first girlfriend only girlfriend at maryland was the non-jew
Guest:so they were like dad what would you do if Ari like brought home a non-Jewish girl because my my mom's sister her stepson had married a non-Jew and it drove the father crazy he wouldn't go to the wedding he like wouldn't talk to them so my dad was trying to be real PC about it and he was like you know he's my son I try to be understanding and loving no matter what you know I wouldn't like it but obviously I understand this is five six seven years after he's accepted it after the lower than a dog yeah yeah
Guest:And then they were like, what would you do if you brought home a black girl?
Guest:And he goes, now you're being stupid.
Marc:I said the same thing to my grandmother, and she said, what if I married a black girl?
Marc:And my grandmother said, as long as she's Jewish.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:It was a very clever joke at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had some black Jews in my community, and one of them had to call for a wedding because she was going to marry some guy, and the family just put too much pressure on him.
Guest:A non-Jew?
Guest:No, a white Jew.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:So they were like African, like not converts, but.
Guest:I think the dad or the grandfather converted, but they were a part of the Orthodox community.
Guest:Yeah, I love that.
Guest:The prices, they were just like any of us.
Guest:Love it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to hear the Temudic argument about that.
Marc:It's like, well, they're still black.
Guest:They're still assholes.
Guest:They're still black.
Guest:So he can't accept them as equals.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's a Jew.
Guest:So there must be a common ground we can find.
Guest:How about they can live amongst us, but no one marries them?
Guest:The bloodline ends here?
Guest:Would that be okay?
Guest:Yeah, you would talk about stuff like that.
Marc:So the first girlfriend was a non-Jew.
Marc:Did you marry a non-Jew?
Marc:Yeah, she was a non-jew.
Marc:Oh, that was the one you married?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, not the first girlfriend.
Guest:That wasn't that one.
Guest:The first girl was just my first love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was my V2-er.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:How'd that go?
Guest:She cried.
Marc:She cried?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was she a V2-er?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:We did it to each other.
Guest:So you both cried?
Guest:No, she cried.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because it was beauty or something.
Guest:I was actually doing this.
Guest:We were so quick.
Guest:It was like while it was still in, it was like, you want to start?
Guest:She's like, no.
Guest:I was like, okay.
Guest:I'm so weird.
Guest:I had trouble getting in.
Guest:I couldn't find it.
Guest:Yeah, it's rough.
Guest:And you feel like you're breaking something.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't know how to do it.
Marc:Shouldn't have more give in here?
Marc:I was told there was a hole.
Guest:I was told.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:We did it.
Guest:We finally did it.
Guest:We kept trying and trying and trying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just couldn't.
Guest:Get it in there.
Guest:And then I went down on her once and then tried to put it in.
Guest:I was like, oh, right in.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:It wasn't slick enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were all both so nervous about it.
Guest:It was all not ready.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You had to prime it.
Guest:I guess so, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now look at you fucking.
Guest:That's why I talk about sex a lot because it's so new to me that I'm still super intrigued by it.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Your dick isn't filthy and jaded?
Marc:It is now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, see what you did to your dick, you miserable Jew?
Marc:What have you dragged it through?
Guest:I got chlamydia.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now?
Guest:Right now.
Guest:I'm taking antibiotics for it.
Guest:For right now.
Guest:Congrats, muzzle top!
Guest:You've arrived.
Guest:You're now officially a filthy Jew.
Marc:Not that I know of I don't think I got crabs once really years that like it's like having bugs in your pubic hair.
Marc:You see them.
Marc:Yeah You don't know it.
Marc:You're just itching a lot and then all of a sudden you're like oh my god when it hits you well Yeah, because they burrow into your skin and they lay eggs in your skin then like you know you feel itching like when however you get them I think you get a couple you know when you fuck somebody with crabs and
Marc:And they just go immediately to go lay eggs under your skin.
Marc:So you're like, what's that?
Marc:What's that itching?
Marc:And then one day you're like, oh my God.
Marc:And a bunch of eggs pop open.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it's a colony there.
Marc:Yeah, full of crabs.
Marc:And so it's just shampoo to get rid of it.
Marc:Yeah, you got it, yeah.
Marc:And shave your hair.
Marc:Yeah, I don't remember if I shaved my hair.
Marc:It wasn't a good experience.
Marc:I don't know who I got them from, but I know I gave them to somebody.
Marc:Did you have to call anybody?
Marc:No, they would find out soon enough.
Marc:Yeah, when we were in college, before the great AIDS epidemic.
Marc:Oh, you went, wow.
Marc:So that happened, that was like 1981, so I was just starting college, and it was still not our thing.
Marc:What do you mean, our thing?
Marc:It was not a straight person.
Marc:It was still this weird gay plague when I was just coming into my sexual thing.
Marc:But I was afraid of it still.
Guest:That's what it was called.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Grids.
Guest:Gay-related immune deficiencies.
Marc:Yeah, something like that, yeah.
Marc:But who the hell knew?
Marc:We were all fucking trying to fuck and fucking.
Marc:But I don't think I ever got the chlamydia.
Marc:I mean, you know when you have it, correct?
Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:That's the weird thing about that one.
Guest:30% or 70% depending on the sex stuff it gets.
Guest:Symptoms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got a call from a girl and then I had to call like.
Guest:So you didn't even get tested you just went on antibiotics?
Guest:I told I went in like three days ago I was like I have it and he asked me how I knew and I told him oh yeah you probably have it.
Guest:Just from like the circumstances.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then he was like, you've got to tell everybody you know that you've done it with because they've got to get tested or screened.
Guest:Did you get tested or you just- Yeah, I got tested.
Guest:He's like, we'll call you in four days, sure.
Guest:Yeah, and they did?
Guest:He called me yesterday and then I called him back and wasn't there.
Guest:So I had the official talk with him.
Guest:Maybe I have AIDS.
Guest:I might have AIDS.
Guest:No, you don't have AIDS.
Guest:Probably not.
Marc:So this is your first STD?
Guest:I had a ward a long time ago.
Marc:Well, that means you have them forever.
Guest:Nah, not really.
Guest:Don't you carry it?
Guest:It's like you carry the virus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Doesn't everybody?
Guest:Yeah, something like that, yeah.
Guest:Man, it's so rough making those phone calls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Especially to like the 18-year-olds who are like, wait, what?
Guest:Is this the end of the world?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not the end of the world.
Marc:How many 18-year-olds are there, Ari?
Guest:There's one in the range of people I had to call.
Guest:Was that a road?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:God.
Marc:What?
Marc:You're living the life.
Guest:I know.
Marc:This is what you wanted, isn't it?
Marc:Isn't this everything you wanted, Ari?
Marc:It is.
Marc:Isn't this why you ran away from God so you could make calls to 18-year-olds and tell them they might have chlamydia?
Marc:No, that part was not it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That wasn't part of the light switch dilemma?
Marc:No, that was not it.
Guest:That was like the, hey, maybe you should think about this again.
Guest:Because maybe there were some good parts about not turning off a light switch.
Marc:When did you start doing comedy?
Guest:I started, so I went to University of Maryland.
Guest:Went there for four years.
Guest:You got a degree?
Guest:Got a degree in English BA with a focus on screens.
Guest:I made up my own focus.
Guest:Screens?
Guest:Screenwriting and screen film interpretation.
Marc:Did you do all right?
Marc:Yeah, I got a film criticism minor.
Marc:I majored in English.
Guest:Yeah, it'd be like a minor.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I love Modern American Lit.
Guest:That was my stuff.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:That's why I'm surprised I never got into Philip Roth.
Guest:I love Bernard Malamode.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And Hemingway.
Guest:Just anything after like 1870.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I ended up focusing on romantic literature, which I slept through.
Marc:I had a year survey in it, and it was at 9 in the morning, and I just never... Tried.
Marc:I couldn't get there.
Guest:I didn't relate to them.
Guest:I'm like, this isn't my life.
Guest:Romeo and Juliet?
Guest:No, no, it wasn't that.
Guest:It was Shelly, Byron, Keats, Yates.
Guest:I didn't connect as much to something like, there's a car in this story.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:they exist it's written for me to understand yeah not for me to decode yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no I probably should have done that I had a you do well in school in English I did great yeah but in high school I was terrible like I barely passed high school yeah but in college because it was on you to read yeah and understand I loved it yeah I love breaking down a book and understanding it that's good yeah what the fuck happened to you but the well I took that and I applied it to it I don't read anymore
Marc:I start a lot of books.
Marc:I've started everything in here.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I just had a real cool, I went to Minnesota and some Hasidic Chabadnik Jews invited me over to their house for Shabbat lunch.
Guest:And I went.
Guest:They invited me last year and I was like, no fucking way.
Guest:I'm not going to go to a stranger's house for lunch.
Marc:Chabad, that's the missionary effort.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they don't try non-Jews.
Guest:They only get Jews back.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:It's like those guys in New York that force you into trailers to do tefillin.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Hold a little of an S road.
Marc:It's the worst.
Marc:You're just walking down the street in New York City.
Marc:It's like, have you done tefillin today or lately?
Marc:And I'm like, no.
Marc:He's like, would you like to do it now?
Marc:You're on the street.
Marc:It's like, can we do this?
Marc:Who's had this on?
Marc:Yeah, but also just sort of like, do we have to kind of announce that we have this freakish ritual?
Guest:I used to think that was good, because I'm like, we only bother Jews and try to get them a mitzvah.
Guest:But now I realize, because I got it once in New York, I was like, get the fuck away.
Guest:Stop, you're a beggar.
Guest:You're a religious beggar.
Marc:But all right, so no God, you'd go to college, and then you're like, I'm going to do comedy?
Marc:Yeah, I had it in the back of my mind.
Guest:My friend Ami Butler always told me that I should do it.
Guest:You know how it is.
Guest:You had people laughing more than other people.
Guest:And then I tried it once in northern Virginia.
Guest:Just an open mic.
Guest:I wore a three-piece suit.
Marc:In Alexandria?
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:At that hotel?
Guest:It wasn't at that hotel.
Guest:Not Chip Franklin's room?
Guest:No.
Guest:Chip Franklin lived there on there?
Guest:You know Chip Franklin?
Guest:I met, well he was, he had a joke that I knew for fucking 12 years.
Marc:He used to book a room in Alexandria, right over the line there.
Guest:Wise Acres?
Marc:I don't know, it was in a hotel.
Marc:I don't remember what his room was.
Guest:Why is it because of the hotel?
Guest:It might have been that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had a joke that I saw on, like, Live from the Laugh Factory or whatever that show was.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because we didn't have cable, but I used to love watching it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I saw a bumper sticker that said, I'm following Jesus.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So I pulled in front of him and started waving to everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had no idea who it was.
Guest:They just whipped him out, comic after comic.
Guest:And I was like, that guy was amazing, but you never see him again with that joke.
Guest:And then I worked with him at the DC Improv so much later.
Guest:I was like, dude, did you?
Guest:Please tell me you wrote that joke.
Guest:And he was like, yeah.
Guest:I was like, did you do this live in the Laugh Factory?
Guest:And he was like, yeah.
Guest:I was like, I remember that joke.
Guest:I was so excited.
Marc:Isn't it funny when you're younger, the impression that jokes?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I still remember a couple of moments from television where I'm like, that was the best thing ever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like Jay Leno was on the Merv Griffin show once.
Marc:Really?
Marc:When I was a kid.
Guest:And it was good?
Marc:After school.
Marc:Yeah, he was funny.
Marc:And it was like after school, I was watching Merv Griffin.
Marc:And they used to have this circle of chairs, like couchy type of chairs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He used to do a semicircle, Merv did.
Marc:And Jay was the guest and he'd done his shtick.
Marc:And Merv goes, all right, we're going to take a break.
Marc:And Jay goes, what happens to the chair now?
Marc:Are we going to go under the wall like it's a game show?
Guest:those old stuff that's the hilarious the way they look too yeah i i used to at the comedy store one of my jobs was marking all the old tapes they had yeah the high eight and the vhs tapes were just all unmarked yeah to go through and watch comedy all day long and i saw it was letterman and billy crystal but all real young on video
Guest:Yeah, all really young, sitting around with that guy who took over after Letterman once, the old guy who was more serious, Snyder.
Guest:Yeah, Tom Snyder.
Guest:Yeah, and they were all smoking cigarettes, and it looked so weird.
Guest:That was on Tom Snyder's show.
Marc:The old, old one, maybe?
Marc:Tomorrow's show.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Or later.
Marc:I can't remember what it was called.
Marc:But yeah, he used to be on.
Marc:He'd sit there and smoke.
Guest:wow yeah it looks so dated and weird so wait so you do it in virginia and then how do you end up here i did it one time yeah and then i graduated college i didn't want to get a job i applied for a few jobs that would have been cool yeah the rest were all just administrative assistants yeah which i didn't want to do yeah um it seems so boring so i was like let me take a chance
Guest:I was so worried about being 35 and having two kids.
Guest:And nothing.
Guest:And some shitbox wife.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:And that thought of like, what if I would have tried?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What if I would have tried to creatively throw my life away?
Marc:What if I would have tried to...
Marc:to roll the dice on this ridiculous speculation, completely ego-based and self-involved.
Guest:That's like there's no way that it would succeed.
Guest:The odds of it succeeding are so monumentally against me, against any of us, that I was like, it's sort of ridiculous to say that I'm going to do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'll give it five years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then get my life started.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And now you're giving it 13.
Marc:Are you ready to go back to the end?
Guest:Is this an intervention?
Guest:I used to feel that way, but now I feel like, no, no, I'm doing great.
Guest:I love this.
Guest:I love waking up at noon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love just doing what I want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not being tied down to anybody or some job or some woman.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just love all this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's all sucky and pointless.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like that part I'm horrified by all of life, but I'd rather be doing it this way.
Marc:No, yeah, it's very comfortable, and we're afforded a certain freedom that we garner from our ridiculous risk with our life, and it is definitely great.
Marc:The only time I get scared, still get scared, and there's no reason not to, having lost everything twice.
Marc:It's just that I'm 49 years old.
Marc:All right, so let's say I do happen to live
Marc:Let's even make it 65.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You'll live past 65.
Guest:The drugs haven't hurt you that much.
Marc:So let's say I live past 70.
Marc:I still can't make money unless I'm talking.
Marc:I have to be somewhere and using my mouth.
Guest:Dude, we're irrelevant to a comedy club going audience.
Guest:You already should be.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:but you've got a name which helps not really i know i i think that comedy is still relatively um if the people going is they're 22 to 35. no but now we live in an era where you can sort of cultivate your own audience with a certain amount of of if you if you're persistent and you know like because of the podcast i have found people that know you yeah and a lot of them are grown people and listen to you you know what i mean
Marc:But if you stay relevant, I mean, generally what you're saying is true that, you know, you make an impression on kids who are like 15 to 25 and you get a lot of them.
Marc:And then you've got your three or three to five year run of you being their guy.
Marc:And then they grow up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're not going to go out and see you anymore.
Guest:Like Dane was a lot of these people's guys for a while.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And then they switched to another comic at some point when their tastes grew up.
Marc:But I think the audience is becoming a lot more diversified.
Marc:Because I can't tell you the number of people that I hear from.
Marc:They're like, I never paid attention to comedians.
Marc:And now I know all these new comedians.
Marc:And I'm going to go see this guy because he was on your show.
Guest:Yeah, there is that.
Guest:I love that when it's on my podcast, when somebody's like, somebody said, I want to see Nick Thune at the Comedy Works, only because I heard of him because of you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, awesome.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:I'm very happy to do that for people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know how this thing's going to really pan out.
Guest:I don't know either.
Guest:I have no clue.
Guest:I'm not trying to.
Guest:It's just a nice conversation.
Guest:I don't know if it's great or not.
Marc:No, this is what we do here.
Marc:All right, so how did you end up?
Marc:Let's get to the store because that's something we can relate to.
Marc:Because you entered the, you bought the bill of goods.
Marc:You were like, this is home.
Marc:Yeah, I went all in.
Marc:Yeah, she's my mommy and I'm good here.
Marc:And you did too.
Marc:This is what we should talk about anyway.
Marc:Yeah, you want to start now?
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:I have like a two-minute teaser from all that.
Marc:yeah she um i was surprised that the that the the the sort of system remains like because by the time i got there in 1987 or whenever the hell i auditioned for and became a doorman i mean the system was already you know the guys who were of the original uh group you know like altman argus kennison who was a little later but like the original original group outside of allman but
Marc:They were kind of gone, like Letterman's generation.
Marc:But when I was there, Altman was still a main room comic and Joey Kamen.
Marc:Was that sad to you that they were still a main room comic?
Marc:No, just because I didn't know them.
Marc:It was sort of mind blowing to me.
Marc:It's like, how come I've never seen this guy?
Marc:There wasn't a lot of sadness.
Marc:I mean, Johnny Dark was still around.
Marc:I mean, there were guys that were of that first or just barely second generation that were still working every night.
Marc:Jan Hart, Damon Wayans was around, Dice was doing the main room, and who else was there?
Marc:Yeah, I got tail end of a lot of those guys.
Marc:Fleischer, who's still around, and Altman's still around.
Marc:He kind of walks around.
Guest:When he's back now, it's a different thing.
Marc:But if you're sort of prone to it, it's only a certain type of personality that gravitates to that place.
Marc:There's something about the comedy store where you walk in and you just see those pictures.
Marc:You see those names on the wall.
Marc:The place is a big, dark, weird place.
Marc:And you're like, I got to be part of this.
Marc:Yeah, I wanted to be in there.
Marc:And I didn't know anything about any of it.
Marc:I didn't either.
Marc:I just thought, like, I want to be a comedian.
Marc:Where do I audition?
Marc:Then you go up.
Marc:I went into the OR and Christopher Wheel was hosting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he used to, he went on to direct things, but he had a piano that had a built-in, not a piano, a banjo that had a built-in applause light.
Marc:Like he could push a button and it would say applause on his banjo.
Marc:Oh, of course.
Marc:But I knew you auditioned at the improv, but that seemed difficult to me.
Marc:I couldn't understand.
Marc:They wanted me to do open mics, and that guy Howard was running things.
Marc:I was like, fuck it.
Marc:And then I went to the comedy store, and I auditioned for her.
Marc:And she was like, yeah, okay, you can be a doorman.
Marc:And then I wanted to do comedy.
Marc:She was like, you got to audition for the belly room.
Marc:And what does that mean?
Marc:So I had to audition for another doorman.
Guest:It was different stages.
Marc:Yeah, I had to audition for a different, for a doorman, for a guy that was already in the belly room rotation to be on stage in the belly room.
Marc:And I remember I walked up there to do this audition and there was no one in the room but Chris, who was hosting that night.
Marc:And he goes, yeah, go on.
Marc:For nobody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I went on and he's like, yeah, okay.
Marc:So then we just did the non-paid regular thing.
Guest:Non-paid regular.
Marc:We would drag people up to the belly room from the main room.
Marc:Because you're allowed to perform there.
Marc:Right, but we'd have to build the audience.
Marc:So we'd have to catch people leaving, go, come on, we got more.
Marc:There's some guys who wouldn't.
Guest:See, when I was a non-paid regular, we just got to go at the end of the bringer shows.
Guest:Or a couple people got worked in, and then the rest of us got to close it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they started forcing them to leave us spots.
Marc:There was no bringer shows when I was there.
Marc:The main room was going, and the R was going, and the belly room was specifically 87.
Marc:What year was this?
Marc:86, 87.
Marc:The belly room was specifically for non-paid regulars.
Guest:It wasn't for girls anymore?
Guest:Right.
Guest:but it had been just for girls yeah that was the original was it in their honor that was before me though that i mean that was like you know that was like you know second state second second wave all right but so okay so you go there i went there looking for the laugh factory and i on my way to the laugh because that show on cbs or on fox whatever it was on saturday nights yeah i never heard of the comedy store yeah had you no i didn't know anything about yeah
Guest:I didn't realize within a whole generation, though, it's super famous.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:If you're 65, you know the comedy store name.
Guest:Did you read that book, I'm Dying Up Here?
Guest:Uh-uh.
Guest:Why the fuck not?
Guest:I was afraid it was going to make me angry at the way things weren't.
Marc:No, it's exactly... It really gives you context for the way things are.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's why I didn't see funny people either.
Guest:I was like, you're going to get it wrong.
Guest:It's going to make me so mad.
Marc:No, who cares about that movie?
Marc:I'm Dying Up There is about the comedy store.
Guest:Okay, really?
Marc:Yeah, it's about what it's built on and why it's so fucking weird and why we get paid, the amount we get paid.
Guest:The strike and whatever.
Marc:Yeah, but it's about Lubitkin jumping off that fucking hotel.
Marc:It all revolves around Richard Lewis and Letterman and those guys.
Marc:You got to read it because when you put that book down, you're like, I get it.
Marc:It makes sense.
Marc:It only deepens the history of the place.
Marc:It did not shatter anything from me.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:The day the guy jumped off that fucking building was the day that got dark, though.
Guest:The whole place got dark?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No doubt.
Guest:Dom said this, because he's been around for a long, long time, and without really leaving for a long time like you did.
Guest:He said that my group of guys, me, Renazisi, just a bunch of those people, it was extra dark before you guys got there.
Marc:Oh, God.
Guest:And then you guys seemed to have a friendly group of friends.
Marc:Well, when I was there, it was very dark as Kenison was in charge.
Marc:And, you know, at that time it was just fucking nuts because the way it used to run was Monday night was no cover night.
Marc:So all the rooms were free and Kenison was like at the top of his game.
Marc:So all these freaks would come like it was just a fucking freaks like porn stars, rock and roll people, all the people from the Roxy.
Marc:Ron Jeremy in his prime.
Marc:Yeah, it was a little after his prime even then.
Marc:And then right after that, that's when it got really black and there was shooting and stuff.
Marc:Oh yeah, that was right before me.
Marc:No, but your generation seems like a good crew and they all seem to be into it.
Marc:And I think even like for as weird as Tommy is, he really sort of wants to honor that place.
Guest:Yeah, he does.
Guest:He wants to honor that tradition of like, you're one of the guys that are from here or whatever.
Guest:But yeah, I drove looking for the Laugh Factory.
Guest:Then saw, I was like, oh, another comedy club.
Guest:It was so close.
Guest:I was coming from that way.
Guest:I was like, I'll apply for a job here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Apply for a job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You didn't audition?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I applied to work the phones.
Guest:Weird.
Guest:I figured that's the way to get in.
Marc:You work jobs somewhere, and then... Everyone had to... In order to do any of those jobs, you had to audition as a comic when I started.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they... To be a doorman, you had to get past as that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I worked the phones upstairs.
Guest:Any of the downstairs shifts... Yeah.
Guest:you had to, you had to be a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I ended up working the phones too.
Marc:And, but you know, I, yeah, I was a doorman and then I drove the fucking truck.
Guest:I drove the truck.
Guest:The one with all the names on the outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Half of whom you've never heard of.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The famous names.
Marc:You got to drive people to the airport.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Cause she had a room in the, at the dunes, uh, you know, in Vegas.
Marc:So like you'd have to go down and meet the two headliners are going out and drive them out to fucking Burbank or like,
Guest:Barely minimum wage.
Marc:Yeah, but I was staying in the house like she expected.
Guest:You stayed in Cresthill?
Marc:Yeah, I lived in Cresthill.
Marc:For cheap rent?
Marc:I don't remember paying her rent.
Marc:For no rent.
Marc:No, you were supposed to, but what are they going to put a lien on your fucking check?
Marc:I guess I paid her something.
Marc:I don't fucking remember.
Guest:She knows.
Guest:She didn't care.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:She knew more than you thought she knew.
Marc:She knew about that.
Guest:She knew what was going on.
Guest:I asked her when she caught me.
Guest:She caught some comedian lying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was driving her home.
Guest:She goes, he's lying.
Guest:When she was still real, like, there with her.
Guest:And I was like, hey, you must have had a lot of, since you deal with comedians, you must have had a lot of people lying to you, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's looking out all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, well, what do you do?
Guest:Do you get rid of them?
Guest:She goes, no, just make a mental note that they lie.
Guest:And then you just take everything from then on with double check it.
Marc:When I was there, she had like this fucking surrogate dick named Mike Becker.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Becker used to be like, you know, he was the, he was the go between, you know, he was in that office.
Marc:Well, yeah, he was the guy right next to the phones in that office.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And Mitzi was always like, he never knew if she was in that room or she wasn't in that room.
Guest:Stained glass window.
Guest:You can't tell, you know, and she was never there when I was there.
Oh my God.
Guest:It was a fun place.
Guest:So yeah, I got a job.
Guest:Larry Vazios and Duncan Trussell trained me on the phones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then eventually, Oh, here's what it was.
Guest:You'd have to audition to beat to work there.
Guest:But if she saw you in the employee section and didn't like you, you're fired.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You got to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, so that was always the fear.
Marc:When I was there, Ollie Jo Prater was still alive, and she used to put him up at a house that she owned in the Hyatt parking lot.
Marc:There used to be a little house up there.
Guest:They still have that?
Guest:The family owns it.
Guest:I forget who was living there, but Peter was living there for a while, one of the sons, and then one of the managers was living there.
Marc:It was so horrible because Ollie Jo had to hobble up that hill.
Marc:He had always had gout.
Marc:He was fucking like...
Guest:I'm going to die of this fat.
Guest:I'm going to die walking up this fucking hill.
Guest:It is a heavy hill.
Guest:That place is amazing.
Guest:Girls sometimes hate it and they say it's misogynist.
Guest:What, the comedy store?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I disagree.
Guest:I just say it's unwelcoming.
Guest:And women aren't used to that level of unwelcoming.
Guest:And men are more able to deal with that.
Marc:The weird thing about the comedy show that I've noticed over time is that, you know, it's not it's not a nuance room like it seems to sort of kind of nurture a very fucking upfront.
Marc:You know, you can't there's no sort of like, I'm just going to work on some shit, you know, like until you're really comfortable there.
Marc:I mean, you've got to fucking show up and deliver.
Marc:You can't show any fear.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:You know, the biggest struggle of working the OR and the main room for that matter is, you know, how do I get innately comfortable on these stages?
Marc:Because if I'm not, they're going to smell it and I'm going to fucking eat it.
Marc:If you sound contrived, they'll jump on you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just like they won't jump on you.
Marc:They'll just let you hang.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know.
Marc:Jump on you with silence.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, but like profound silence.
Marc:I mean, I have, like, there have been nights in the fucking OR.
Marc:It's so dark in there.
Marc:And even in the main room where you're like, what, is this mic not working?
Marc:How are 300 people, you know, how is this?
Marc:You get those sweats.
Marc:And you could be on the road for a month killing with this shit.
Marc:And then, yeah, all of a sudden you're in the main room, you're stumbling over shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dude, when I went on the road with Rogan and had, like, packed shows, I would come back from, like, Cap City Comedy Club.
Guest:Sold out.
Guest:Like, one of the better clubs in the country.
Guest:Big room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we packed.
Guest:On Sunday, I'd always try to come back and get back to reality of what L.A.
Guest:opened my comedy was like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Go get, eat shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Don't ride a high too long.
Marc:Oh, you did it for that reason?
Marc:You thought, like, I got it now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right, because I feel like I'm a good comedian.
Guest:And then you go tank.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, no.
Guest:And then when it got too bad, I would do the Laugh Factory open mic, and that was an ego boost.
Marc:I never did the open mics.
Guest:They would laugh at anything.
Marc:I never did the open mics here.
Marc:Really?
Marc:No, you know, when I got out here, you know, I auditioned for her and I just moved into the place.
Marc:You know, I was living in Culver City briefly.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:And she's like, you can live in Crasstown.
Marc:You started in San Francisco?
Marc:No, I think I started in, you know, officially started in Boston.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, really, no, when I came out here, I came out here right after college.
Marc:All right, so I hadn't really done much.
Marc:I'd done a little comedy in college.
Marc:Like 10 times or less?
Marc:Yeah, well, there was one summer where I committed to it and I just drank myself silly and I did a lot of open mics and just busted my balls in Boston.
Marc:And then when I graduated college, I'm like, I'm gonna go be a comic.
Marc:I focused on getting the degree.
Marc:And I did some comedy, but never committed to it.
Marc:And I just drove out here.
Marc:I wrote a screenplay with this guy.
Marc:We tried to sell it, we couldn't.
Marc:We had a falling out.
Marc:I auditioned at the store.
Marc:She goes, you're funny, you should wear a scarf.
Marc:And then Becker said, you can be a doorman.
Marc:I'm like, okay, fuck yeah, okay, I wanna be a doorman.
Marc:I had no idea what that meant.
Marc:so like i i started doing the door and then she goes why don't you live up in you know let him live up in the house i had nowhere to live because i got kicked out of that apartment and i moved to another apartment and then the girl i don't know it was so fucking sad dude like i like i was living with my buddy but then he wanted his other friend to move in but there was another some girl was looking for a roommate in the same building so i moved in with her and i was doing comedy at the comedy store and like within two nights of living with her
Marc:I got her all railed on Coke, and we were drinking, and we started making out and stuff, and she had a boyfriend.
Marc:So within three days of living there, the boyfriend came over with her other friends and threw me out.
Marc:And then I had nowhere to live.
Marc:Oh, so you really started in L.A.?
Marc:Yeah, kind of.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And then Beck was like, oh, I live in the house.
Marc:So I lived in Dice's old room in Cresthill.
Marc:It was a fucking freak show.
Marc:Were there a lot of acts back then?
Guest:Like people that have the, I'm the This comic.
Wow.
Marc:like roseanne was like no there was a lot of sticky guys like you know joey came and had had outfits and you know and jan hart had signs and you know there was you know there was people that did things and daryl savod had a puppet and or maybe it wasn't him i don't fucking know but but i just basically moved into the place it seemed like she really did want to foster that artist community kind of vibe where she's like i'm gonna put you guys up she must not she must have known i'm not getting my mortgage paid by these people renting
Marc:The whole problem was, yeah, maybe she wanted to do that, but she had a racket going because the club became huge in the 70s.
Marc:And she wasn't paying nobody.
Marc:That's why there was a strike.
Marc:She was making money hand over fist.
Guest:She always said that she's like, that's why we let the comics get paid.
Guest:That's why we needed a strike so that it resulted in this and this.
Guest:And I never called on her, but I was like, you were on the other side of the strike.
Guest:You didn't want that to happen.
Guest:You got to read the book.
Guest:Okay, I'll read it then.
Guest:That's a good enough thing that I'll read it.
Marc:You won't be able to put it down.
Marc:Because for me, I'm years away from that place.
Marc:And it was just like, this is my family.
Marc:This is my history.
Marc:I'm reading about my history.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:When you did come back to the store, you found me and David.
Guest:Because I guess you had known us from the other places, from the alternative rooms.
Guest:and you were like you could tell like you were like uncomfortable there yeah like it was something to you oh yeah so you're like hey i know you guys hey what hey what are you doing we're like why is mark fucking marin talking to us so nicely yeah and like being cool with us yeah i was not knowing i was haunted by the place you were did sam make you do like evil stuff
Marc:No, but it was like my brain was so blown out.
Marc:He was what he was.
Marc:And that place, when you don't sleep for three days and you're on a lot of coke and you're hanging out with that crew, everything gets a little creepy.
Marc:The place just took on a much bigger thing to me, like Nostradamus shit.
Marc:My brain was out there.
Marc:So I was haunted by that whole experience and his ethos, Sam's ethos, was very dark.
Marc:I mean, that's what he did.
Marc:He knew where the doorways were.
Marc:And he would like push buttons.
Marc:Was it kind of like Patrice like that?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:He was much.
Marc:No, he'd never push buttons.
Marc:He made you feel like he loved you.
Marc:Who?
Marc:Sam.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I mean, he was like a preacher.
Guest:And then would use.
Guest:It was always for good.
Guest:He just wanted to lead.
Guest:He just wanted everyone to.
Guest:I'm so intrigued by that guy.
Marc:No, he was a bully at heart.
Marc:He would sit around and go, I'm going to take eight years off your career, Maren.
Marc:I didn't realize that meant he was going to kill me.
Marc:He liked having an entourage.
Marc:The lessons I learned about that were
Marc:do not be part of an entourage.
Marc:Mike Becker actually told me that because there were guys that had them.
Marc:Dice had it, Sam had it.
Marc:Becker called them satellite comics.
Marc:That they were satellite comics.
Guest:That's why I feel a little shitty about myself sometimes.
Guest:I feel like I'm that with Rogan sometimes.
Marc:Well, I think he's like people who have the charisma to carry people.
Marc:It's something they like to do.
Guest:And I think they just trying to help their friends.
Guest:And it's like, yeah, awesome.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:But then it becomes like, are all my fans only your rundown fans?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's not quite that, but it's annoying to think it might be.
Marc:Well, I mean, those are decisions you have to make.
Marc:You know, my problem with it was, the problem with being part of that is that you can be expelled.
Guest:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah, that's bad.
Marc:But that's what happens.
Guest:So he had that power to expel people.
Guest:Well, of course.
Guest:And he'd hold it over you?
Marc:Well, no, he wouldn't hold it over you.
Marc:It's just one day you were out.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, you know, you feel part of this momentum.
Marc:And, you know, like, I'm one of the guys.
Marc:And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, fuck you.
Marc:You fucked up.
Marc:You did this.
Marc:You're kicked out of the group.
Marc:And then you're like, but...
Marc:i but i don't know how to you know and it's like it's heartbreaking because you're we're all infants you know what you know you just want to be part of this thing and and the you know for some reason we gravitate towards this fucking haunted mansion of a club and you were able to walk right up to them but they were like nope beat it yeah i got that yeah yeah you if you piss off the king yeah he was the king yeah
Guest:Cause I've been banned from the store before, but then it's like, I just, I can't even be there.
Guest:I'm not allowed to leave it out on the present.
Guest:So I'm not missing the people.
Guest:But if I was there, but just not allowed to talk to three people, five people, that would be really hard.
Marc:Well, no, it was just like, it was clicky.
Marc:You know, there was, and no one really wanted to be part of that.
Marc:Becker used to call it the Manson family.
Marc:When I was up at Crest Hill.
Marc:Cause he convinced them all to be part of it.
Marc:Well, no, there was just like, you know, if you're into that shit, you know, you I mean, you're sitting there with the guy, you know, no one pushed it as far out as him, you know, like, you know, as a performer, you know, like the thing about him was like when you watched him, you're like, this is menacing.
Marc:Like there was, you know, there was an electricity to the wrong, the moral sort of fragmentation of what he was doing.
Guest:His young comedian special.
Guest:When it came on, I saw it at the Museum of Radio and Television, which I'm sure at the time seemed like a good idea to build, but that was before YouTube came and made the whole place irrelevant.
Guest:Made a lot of things irrelevant.
Guest:The internet.
Guest:But it was like Saget and that guy who- Dom, I think.
Guest:Maybe Dom was on that one, but I remember Bob Nelson, he put like balloons in his shoulder pads to make a football player.
Guest:And then Kinison came.
Guest:And when he did it, it was so raw and real, so real that you're like, oh, it's clearly about to change now.
Guest:That's clearly a breaking point in comedy.
Marc:It was all very heartbreaking and it was all very fueled by drugs.
Marc:And once that fell apart for me, I had to go.
Marc:Once you couldn't do drugs anymore?
Marc:No, once the whole Sam thing broke apart, he was losing his mind.
Marc:And, you know, I saw him in a lot of very vulnerable and weird, you know, things.
Marc:Because I was living in that house.
Marc:And he would bring people up there to party.
Marc:And a lot of times he'd be the only one left.
Marc:And I'd have to sit there for hours while he would yell upstairs at Tamayo, who he used to date.
Marc:And, like, he would cry.
Marc:And, you know, it just, it was fucking.
Guest:The other thing with her.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then sometimes he'd sleep on the floor and be like, oh, can't you?
Marc:All right.
Marc:You know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:and there's nothing you can be like no get out of here man you don't live here one time he was supposed to play at the university of arizona where my brother went to school and my brother was like you're gonna set us up right and i'm like yeah you know and it was like a big gig and at this time he had a bodyguard to supposedly stop him from doing drugs but then the bodyguard ended up doing drugs so like for the one time that sam canceled the show it was the university of arizona like and he was too fucked up to go and he was passed out on my floor and i had to call my brother up like yeah you're probably gonna hear this before anyone else but sam's not gonna make it
Marc:Wow.
Guest:I know he had weird things.
Guest:My acting teacher used to hang out with him, and he said when they brought their kid around, he would leave him in a room and tell the bounce, like, hey, that kid doesn't come in this room where all the coke was.
Marc:Yeah, we had to behave.
Marc:It was about drugs.
Marc:You definitely got, and I imagine it's the same with Joe on some level, is that...
Marc:It was energizing to be around him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's a charisma thing.
Marc:Yeah, that's what it is.
Marc:And they can somehow handle it.
Marc:I mean, I couldn't handle the pressure.
Guest:I don't like people.
Marc:Yeah, I couldn't lead anybody there.
Marc:I couldn't be, come on, gather around.
Marc:It's just not my personality.
Marc:But I used to be a guy like, yeah, I want to gather around, but now I fight that.
Guest:You know, so now I'm just sort of like... That's how you see Dice get sort of jealous about it.
Guest:When I see like a few people around Rogan and Dice would get sort of angry.
Guest:Those guys want their own.
Guest:Yeah, because he had his guys.
Marc:Well, he had his guys and they all ended up with nicknames.
Marc:You know, like Jumpstart and Cheesecake and Wheels.
Marc:Everyone's... I used to say that to people.
Marc:Don't hang around Dice too long.
Marc:You get a nickname.
Marc:Schubert was a... Schubert was a Dice guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then he became a Kennison guy.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I didn't know Schubert was a Dice guy.
Guest:Yeah, he was definitely a Kennison guy.
Marc:He was originally a Dice guy.
Marc:I think his name was Jumpstart.
Marc:Jumpstart Jimmy Schubert.
Guest:All right, look, this is getting a little inside baseball.
Guest:So you're doing good?
Guest:Yeah, I'm doing great.
Guest:I'm recording a special.
Guest:It's going to be on, I guess, the beginning of February.
Marc:You can get that at JoeRogan.com?
Guest:No, Chill.com.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Guest:You're welcome.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that Jew on Jew action.
Marc:What else do I got to tell you?
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Kick in a few shekels.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:Buy some merchandise.
Marc:Leave a comment.
Marc:Do the Lipson deal.
Marc:Pre-order my book at Amazon or wherever you do it.
Marc:Powell's, Barnes & Noble.
Marc:Whatever you got to do.
Marc:You go, yeah.
Marc:Ari Shafir has got his special up right now.
Marc:It's called Passive Aggressive.
Marc:It's at Chill.com slash Ari.
Marc:It's only five bucks.
Marc:You can go to his website as well.
Marc:Ari the Great.
Marc:Maria Bamford's with the same company.
Marc:Chill did her special.
Marc:They did Tom Rhodes' special.
Marc:I, of course, will be in Boston tomorrow.
Marc:Chickpea, actually, tomorrow night, Friday, the 29th.
Marc:Boston doing a live WTF and a live stand-up show on Saturday, the 30th.
Marc:And I will be in Indianapolis next weekend at Crackers Broad Whipple.
Marc:Broad Whipple.
Marc:Broad Whipple.
Marc:Broad Ripple.
Guest:Boomer lives!