Episode 371 - E of Eels
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:Welcome to WTF.
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:Thank you for being here.
Marc:Today is an interesting show.
Marc:I've got E from the Eels talking and playing.
Marc:But I've met Mark before, and he's a deep dude, man.
Marc:He's been through some shit, and the songs that he played were fucking beautiful.
Marc:And then, of course, there's always the slight envy I have when I talk to musicians, because I want to be a musician.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Let me turn up my guitar.
Marc:Can I be this guy?
Thank you.
Marc:Can I be that guy?
Marc:Is there room for that guy?
Marc:Come on.
Marc:There has to be.
Marc:It was spontaneous.
Marc:Maybe I can turn that buzz off now.
Marc:Did you hear that buzz on my guitar?
Marc:See, that's tolerable, I think, with guitars.
Marc:It adds to the grit.
Marc:Not tolerable when you're listening to your new record player.
Marc:And I think I don't have any more space for records.
Marc:It's a little crazy.
Marc:It's a little crazy.
Marc:Well, no, I will take any records you send me because I enjoy them.
Marc:It's better than crack.
Marc:I'm starting to think that equally as expensive as a drug habit, if not more.
Marc:If you commit to your obsession, anything can be as expensive as a drug habit, just perhaps not as dangerous.
Marc:I may run out of space.
Marc:I may need to get a new house just for my records if I could afford a new house.
Marc:I kind of want a new house.
Marc:If anyone has a house in the Highland Park area,
Marc:that they want to sell me, let me know.
Marc:I'll come over and buy your house from you.
Marc:I'm looking for three bedrooms, two bathrooms, if that's possible, for under a billion dollars.
Marc:Because quite frankly, what I'm learning in a relationship, and this has taken me, I'm 49 years old.
Marc:What I'm learning is that it's best to say yes as often as possible, even if it hurts a little bit, because it makes life easier.
Marc:And that's, you know, I've heard that before, but I was like, no, man, fight for your, you know, fight.
Marc:You got to fight.
Marc:You got to hold your place, man.
Marc:You got to, you know, you got to stake out your territory and, you know, and have some, like, this is my shit.
Marc:This is the way I think.
Marc:And if you got a problem with that, what?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:We have, okay.
Marc:Whatever you want to do is fine.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:I'm on vacation right now.
Marc:I'm just telling you.
Marc:You don't need to know that.
Guest:Let's talk to Eve from the Eels.
Marc:Here we are, Mark Everett.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:You know me, kind of.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I feel like I know you.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:You know, we did that one interview a while back, and from listening to your songs and your music, there seems to be a river of woe.
Marc:There's a tone, man.
Marc:I was trying to figure it out today, and I went inside, and I was listening to records, and
Marc:But there's a tone that kind of goes through most of them.
Marc:What would you call it?
Marc:I mean, is it melancholy?
Marc:Is it longing?
Marc:Is it sadness?
Guest:You know, I get saddled with being that guy a lot.
Guest:Well, I don't want to do it.
Guest:No, I'm not saying you're doing it, but there is...
Guest:To me, I'm just trying to reflect life and all the different flavors and shades and colors of it.
Guest:And there's a lot of joy mixed in with all that stuff.
Guest:And a lot of it is all getting through the dark places in the name of getting to the bright place.
Guest:And that's what our new album is about that nobody sent you, of course.
Yeah.
Marc:Like, I wanted it so bad because it's called something happy.
Marc:It's called Wonderful Glorious.
Marc:And I'm, like, thinking, like, you know, E has taken a turn in his life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's not that I've taken a turn.
Guest:I think I've just been...
Guest:trying to take a turn my whole life you know and it's just getting a little more successful as the years go on hopefully but you know life's hard for everybody it's not easy for anybody and you know every day you're met with tons of challenges yeah
Marc:You and I are about the same age.
Marc:We've been around a while, I think, right?
Marc:We've seen some shit.
Marc:We've seen some shit.
Marc:I don't think I've seen as much shit as you, because I remember talking to you the first time.
Marc:It was a while back, but I think I ended up in a documentary you did.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:You ended up in our Live at Town Hall documentary.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, we were jamming in that little room probably early in the morning.
Marc:There was some funny stuff that happened.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I can't remember, but I remember last time I saw it, I was laughing.
Marc:And then the last time I saw you this time was at Judd Apatow screening.
Marc:Right.
Marc:How did that happen for you?
Marc:I mean, when I saw you there, I'm like, why are we here?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:So would they just reach out to you?
Guest:I was just happy that you remembered me at all.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:Well, I did a scene for that Apatow movie.
Guest:I did a scene with Paul Rudd.
Guest:You were in there?
Guest:Yeah, I got cut out.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:But Judd put it online recently.
Guest:Oh, so he threw you a bone, let you eat some food with the other people?
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Well, getting to act with Paul Rudd was the funnest thing I've ever done, though.
Guest:That was really fun.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:He's a funny guy.
Guest:He's exactly what he appears to be, I think, on screen, just the nicest guy.
Guest:What was your scene?
Guest:It was a scene where I played like a heightened, even more asshole version of myself.
Guest:And I was signed to Paul's record label.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I come in and I play him a new song and he loves it.
Guest:And then I tell him that I'm leaving his label to go to another label.
Guest:And why was it cut?
Guest:The joke is, you know, that why would I bother to play the whole song?
Guest:I'm that much of an asshole that I play him the song.
Guest:He says he loves it.
Guest:And I say, yeah, you know who else loves it?
Guest:Warner Brothers.
Marc:Was there any resentment?
Guest:No, I expected it.
Guest:I mean, Judd films a lot of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, in fact, I watched them film that whole day, and nothing I saw that day ended up in the movie.
Guest:And I saw some amazing, great scenes.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know how one makes choices.
Marc:It's got to be tough.
Marc:I mean, with music, it's a little different.
Marc:But let's... Because I have a lot of listeners I'm not sure, like, are familiar with you.
Marc:But, I mean, the first...
Marc:Eel's record was Beautiful Freak, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And that thing was a huge record, and it sort of changed my life because you locked into some sort of chord progression that I think... I don't know.
Marc:I've talked to other people about this who are musicians, but you have favorite...
Marc:progressions don't you like there are certain tones that you're like this is the one that where my heart connects to yeah I mean there is stuff that you know everybody has certain things like that yeah that they like you'll notice a lot of John Lennon songs are the same chord progression right and Dylan too there's certain builds right but like to me if it resonates with you I mean that that's you know that's your key in man that's your portal into the feelings that you have yeah you just gotta find ways to dress it up differently a little bit
Marc:Yeah, but Nova Came for the Soul was a big song, and you grew up in a rural situation, didn't you?
Guest:No, I grew up in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., in northern Virginia.
Guest:Northern Virginia.
Guest:It was sort of like Orange County and Virginia.
Marc:But your old man was in the science racket.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:He was the parallel universe guy.
Marc:Do you want to talk about that?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Can you explain it to me?
Marc:Can you explain?
Guest:Oh, well, I don't know if I can do that.
Guest:I mean, it's the whole thing that you see in movies and science fiction for a long time.
Guest:It's all based on his theory that anything that can happen is happening in another dimension.
Guest:That was your dad?
Guest:That was my dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And is that a theory?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it was his thesis.
Guest:In the documentary that was on NOVA a couple years ago that I was in about my father, I went into the Princeton archives and they showed me the actual thesis.
Guest:The paper?
Guest:Yeah, the actual paper.
Marc:Now, did you spend your whole life with him?
Marc:I mean, were your folks married and whatnot?
Guest:Yeah, actually, they were married until he died.
Guest:He died when I was 19, and they were married.
Guest:They never split up, but he was a constant presence for those 19 years.
Guest:A good one?
Guest:No, I mean, he was a physical presence, but I couldn't tell you much about him.
Guest:I've learned a lot about him recently.
Guest:yeah but i didn't learn anything about him during those 19 years why because he never said anything ever you just extremely rarely you know it was always like this amazing thing between my sister and me whenever he would like say something yeah we kind of look at each other like oh my god it's talking it said something yeah
Marc:Was it just because he was a science personality or was he just a brooding guy?
Marc:Did he smoke a pipe?
Guest:I think it was a combination of he had a tough childhood and he was a physics genius who got brushed under the carpet and wasn't taken seriously.
Guest:He was 24 when he came up with this theory and he took it to the leading quantum physics guy in the world at the time.
Guest:In the main Copenhagen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They had a showdown and my father was, you know, had enough hubris to think he's going to change this guy's opinion, which would mean knocking him off the Mount Rushmore.
Guest:Of quantum physics.
Guest:And replacing it with this 24 year old kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is actually why your theory doesn't work.
Guest:This is why my theory works.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, of course, the guy wasn't having it, and it ruined my father's life, and that was the end of physics for him.
Guest:He just gave up.
Guest:And the end of talking?
Guest:And the end of talking to me, yeah.
Marc:It might have been.
Marc:But now, in retrospect, in your research about your own father, I mean, is it, what do people think of that theory now?
Guest:Well, now it's gained a lot of followers and there's a lot of physicists who think it's the real deal.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is just recently?
Guest:Well, it gained over the years.
Guest:And he had one shining moment while he was still alive in the late 70s.
Guest:This guy who's like the leading quantum physics guy in England now was actually at this conference in Austin, Texas that they invited my father to where they...
Guest:suddenly said, hey, wait a minute, we should pay more attention to this theory.
Guest:And so my dad had a brief, exciting resurgence while he was still alive, but that was all.
Marc:And what is the practical application of that theory?
Marc:Do you know?
Marc:I mean, like, what does it show?
Marc:I mean, I don't mean to talk about your dad too much, but I mean...
Marc:How did it affect you?
Guest:It's hard to fathom because it means that anything that can happen is happening.
Guest:So like with every choice of any action, you know, like right now I'm talking to you and I'm waving my hands about.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I could just pick up this hammer and smash your head in and that's happening somewhere.
Marc:In your mind at that moment.
Marc:Gosh, why did I go there?
Marc:I don't know why I said that.
Marc:No, because there's a hammer there.
Marc:There's only a couple things you can do with a hammer.
Guest:I like to use dramatic examples to try to get the point home.
Guest:But does that count?
Guest:Does it count if it's just in your mind?
Guest:No, no, it's not about in your mind.
Guest:According to the theory, it's really like all these different planes.
Guest:There's multiple universes.
Guest:That's what it's about.
Guest:And in this documentary, they explain it scientifically, why it makes sense.
Guest:They show like light experiments and stuff, why there's holes in the standing theories that don't make any sense.
Marc:Does your brain go to those places?
Guest:No, I didn't inherit that at all.
Guest:And that's who I am in that documentary about my father.
Guest:I'm the dumb guy that you get to learn through the dumb guy's eyes about this theory.
Marc:His son is perfect.
Marc:He doesn't know his father really that well because the guy didn't talk and he doesn't understand anything that he worked on.
Guest:Look, I'm so glad that I didn't get into physics because there's nothing worse than being like, you don't want to be the Julian Lennon of physics or whatever.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm glad I got into my own thing.
Guest:And maybe I'll have a son who will be a physics guy and that'll be good.
Guest:No kids yet?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:Is that going to happen?
Marc:maybe yeah you know it's a nice thing about us guys we can do it anytime i know i hear it i'm with a girl who wants him i was wondering your thoughts on it because your book you know your book is called things the grandchildren should know yeah well you know so you better better make that happen yeah i gotta get to the children first
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got it.
Marc:You got somebody.
Marc:I thought I'd go straight to the grandchildren.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I kind of look at it as sort of like it's a book anyone can pick up and be like, oh, this is for me because I'm a I'm a grandchild.
Guest:You know, I did a you know, when you put a book out, there's a you go to like the book convention or whatever and you sit there and you sign copies and there was a.
Guest:long line of old ladies that were getting them for their grandchildren.
Guest:They didn't understand.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:A gift book?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a children's book.
Guest:And I just thought, man, this is not going to go well when the kids open this one up.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I mean, it's graphic and shocking and dramatic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everything a good book should be.
Marc:You grew up with this father who was regimented, scientific, and quiet.
Marc:I mean, he must have been chomping at the bit or ripping your fucking eyes out at some point.
Guest:I mean, where did it all start to... Well, I got to really give him credit that he let me play drums in the house for that whole time, since I was six.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wasn't the kid who got a drum set and lost interest in it.
Guest:I did it every day for 10 years or something.
Guest:That was your main instrument?
Guest:That was, for a long time.
Guest:So...
Marc:i don't think i could stomach that you know so i gotta give them credit there but when you were a kid like who were like what kind of music was driving you i went through like every phase you can imagine like in whatever i would get obsessive about whatever it was you're 40 held you 48 49 i'm 49 so that means we were in high school we graduated high school in what 80 81
Marc:Yeah, 81.
Marc:So you and I caught the sort of crashing wave of the fucking 60s, and we went to high school right in the middle of disco.
Marc:Yeah, we missed the best stuff.
Marc:Yeah, we missed the best stuff.
Guest:But I got into all this stuff like a few years after it all happened was always my thing.
Marc:I'm still that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I still miss everything.
Marc:Like, when we were in high school, like, punk was starting to happen, but it didn't really take hold, and you had to know a guy who was into it to fucking, but it was all Zeppelin.
Marc:Like, if you didn't want to do the disco thing, and then the Knack showed up, and like, what is that?
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:Like, were you like, were you doing the buttons and the skinny tie?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was like, you know, the same thing.
Guest:It was like with all that, I missed everything as it was happening.
Guest:I couldn't get into anything as it was happening because everything seemed uncool because it was happening.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was always into something from, you know, five years earlier.
Guest:were you zeppelin guy i yeah i had a zeppelin phase i saw them live twice in eighth grade really yeah and i'm uh jimmy page came to our show last year and which is an awful experience the eel show yeah because if you're a you know a guitarist uh and you know jimmy page is watching you all night you're just thinking he hates this he hates this he thinks this is terrible
Guest:But I met him and I said, hey, does this look familiar?
Guest:Capital Center, Largo, Maryland, 1977.
Guest:And I made the face of a kid just wide-eyed staring up at the stage.
Marc:What did he say?
Guest:He said, no.
Guest:And then I met John Paul Jones shortly after that and did the same gag.
Guest:Yeah, and had that go over with him.
Guest:He kind of acted like he remembered me.
Guest:Jones seems like the cooler one of the two, really, in a way.
Guest:Wow, Jimmy Page was super cool.
Guest:He was?
Guest:Such a gentleman.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did he compliment your guitar player?
Guest:We used the same guitar pick.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Which one?
Guest:Pete Townsend saw my guitar pick and said, that's what Jimmy Page uses.
Guest:Which guitar pick, dude?
Guest:Yeah, I got one right here.
Guest:That's what Jimmy Page uses.
Guest:A Herco Flex 75?
Guest:But as my guitarist, Chet, pointed out in front of Jimmy Page, Jimmy gets better results with his pick.
Yeah.
Marc:See, that's a tenacious D pick.
Marc:Oh, man, it's giant.
Marc:So you go from Zeppelin then to who?
Marc:When did you start using drugs?
Guest:Oh, well, I was such an early bloomer.
Guest:I quit doing coke in 10th grade.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I kind of modeled myself into a model citizen around 10th grade of high school.
Guest:It got that bad?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it didn't get that bad.
Guest:It was just I recognized the ridiculousness.
Guest:On your own?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What events?
Marc:Give me events with each drug.
Marc:Coke in 10th grade and 9th grade.
Guest:I actually don't remember any Coke events or anything.
Guest:I don't even remember actually enjoying it.
Guest:I think that's why I was just like, this is stupid.
Guest:Acid?
Guest:It was all because I had a few acid experiences, but only like four or five.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think I documented all this in my book.
Guest:I was at a...
Guest:Literally, I had a Grateful Dead concert when I realized this is all just too stupid for me.
Marc:Yeah, I had that at a Jerry Garcia concert.
Marc:You were surrounded by dancing hippies.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you realize how full of hate all the hippies are.
Guest:the hippies got evil on you have you seen the show on hbo called enlightened yes i love it because it's the first time there's been a character that is a archetype that i know in real life that i've never seen before in in a movie or tv where it's the angry hippie yeah well she's uh one of these sort of new struggling with new age spiritualism to solve her problems
Marc:Right.
Marc:And she's so full of hate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, there's that weird thing about hippies.
Marc:I've met a couple evil hippies, you know, and there's no doubt.
Marc:But you were at a Grateful Dead concert and you were just like, oh, this is horrifying.
Guest:So that was that.
Marc:This is just stupid.
Marc:And booze, no?
Guest:Booze wasn't a big thing really for me.
Guest:I...
Guest:You know, it was all because of my older sister.
Guest:I had a sister who was six years older than me, and she took me everywhere.
Guest:We were very close.
Guest:She have good records?
Guest:Yeah, I slowly stole her record collection and just hung out with her and all the older kids all the time, and she was just part of a nonstop party scene.
Guest:Yeah, and she turned out to have some problems.
Guest:Yeah, she was messed up.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:She didn't seem so messed up when she was younger, but as she got older, it became more and more apparent.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:Well, it's been diagnosed a bunch of different times with different things.
Guest:It could have been bipolar.
Guest:It could have been schizophrenia.
Guest:I never knew what to make of any of the diagnosis, but she did end up killing herself.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you visit her in the hospital?
Guest:Well, she was in the hospital so many times and she'd try to kill herself many times over the years.
Guest:For real?
Guest:Like not like cry for help stuff?
Guest:You know, it was always hard to tell.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then when someone does it for real, you figure, well, they meant it, you know?
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:It's so fucking horrifying.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, my father's bipolar and used to threaten it a lot.
Marc:Ooh.
Marc:But never really.
Marc:It gets to a point, sadly, with people who are like that, where you're like, all right, well, get on with it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I know what you're saying.
Guest:And people that haven't been in this kind of situation are aghast to hear that kind of thing.
Guest:That's just because they're amateurs who haven't been through this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's because the emotional, knowing that you can't help them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Really.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And nothing you can do other than eventually sort of detach and go, I don't know.
Marc:You're going to do it or you're not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm not defying you to do it, but I don't know how to help you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that went on for how many years?
Yeah.
Guest:Gosh.
Guest:I mean, it started when she was in her late teens or whatever.
Guest:She was like 38 or something by the time she died.
Marc:Was she able to sort of manage a functional life at all?
Marc:No, not really.
Marc:No?
Guest:so and then in that album that was also the your everyone sort of went in a in a like a very short yeah it was a it was a very intense tragic time for me it was like well i mean you know my i found my father dead when i was 19 so that happened way back and then and then how'd that happen what uh he had a heart attack he's only 51 and uh he just i was only one home when it happened so that was a whole traumatic thing
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:And then when the first Eels album came out, like just right within weeks or something of that coming out was when my sister died.
Guest:So that was intense because my life was changing in a huge way.
Guest:And then that happened.
Guest:And so it was like really a tumultuous, weird time for me.
Guest:And then right after that, my mom got diagnosed with cancer and she died a year or two after that.
Marc:And you were already sort of heavy-hearted, weren't you?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I am my father's son, technically.
Marc:When did music start solving some of these problems?
Guest:Oh, right away.
Guest:When I was six, and I bought this toy drum set at the neighbor's garage sale for 15 bucks, and I played them at the first grade talent show, and I brought the house down.
Guest:yeah yeah with a little uh what did you do some solos well oddly all i did was i put the record on of the star spangled banner and then i played like a trap drum set to it somehow i don't you know i think all there is is like a drum roll through the whole thing you know but i just went crazy like the keith moon version yeah star spangled banner and the place erupted really yeah i was like first grade they were just sort of like you i became like an instant celebrity it was great at the school yeah yeah all of a sudden i was the drum kid yeah
Marc:Everywhere you went in town.
Guest:You know, I don't think it lasted very long because it was like towards the end of the year, of course.
Guest:And then you come back for second grade and you're just starting from scratch.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when, and then when did you start playing guitar?
Guest:That came later.
Guest:My sister had a guitar that she started to neglect as people do.
Guest:And I just kind of stole it and started to, whoever was around, you know, one of her older friends that knew how to play guitar, I'd say, hey, teach me a chord or two.
Guest:And then, you know, just pick up chords around the neighborhood.
Marc:So she was six years older than you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So literally like, so when you were born, that was, so she was already a kid.
Marc:So like in the 70s, she was kind of getting into stuff, like 11 or 12, and you were still a kid.
Marc:So that was all around, that kind of music and that kind of partying and like bell bottoms and shit.
Guest:Yeah, because she was actually around for like the 60s.
Guest:She was kind of the right age for the Beatles when they were happening and that kind of stuff, and I was too late for it.
Marc:We were born in 63, and she was already six.
Marc:So by 69, she was 12.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was like the mind-blowing time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So at least she got to time that right.
Marc:So you got this guitar, and then what were the first sort of band configurations?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, then I had, in high school, I was still playing drums a whole time through all this other, I was learning songs on the piano and guitar too, but I was, drums was still my main thing.
Guest:And I had a band that played like, you know, blues rock in high school and we became kind of a big high school thing.
Guest:Could you swing?
Guest:Could you shuffle?
Guest:Could you do it?
Guest:I can do it all, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can fucking do it.
Guest:You're the sticks, huh?
Guest:That's still the thing I could play best.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I don't get to do it very often.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Because I got a drummer.
Yeah.
Marc:Do you have any desire to get back behind those things?
Guest:Yeah, once in a while I do.
Guest:And it's always really fun when I do.
Guest:Blues rock.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was in Virginia.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So were you playing bars and shit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Doing covers?
Guest:I was playing in bars when I wasn't legally supposed to be in a bar.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, what were some of the tunes, man?
Guest:You know, a lot of Almond Brothers and that kind of thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You had a good guitar player?
Guest:Yeah, we had a couple of good guitar players, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you keep in touch with those guys?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's been a while.
Marc:When did you come out here?
Guest:I came out here in the late 80s.
Guest:And I was 24, I think.
Guest:And when I look back on it, it was just insane because I drove across the country.
Guest:with everything i owned in the car and i didn't know a single soul in california period and it was just the most insane thing that i just can't believe i'm sitting here and it turned into something when did you what was the impetus why did you why did i just had it with virginia i was just like wow you know i was just felt i just felt like a real desperate soul and like you know what i mean that's crazy but i might as well try to do something with my music
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you didn't go to college?
Guest:I did, but I didn't finish and I didn't care about it the whole time.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Guest:I went to a couple of different colleges.
Guest:Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason.
Guest:What were you studying?
Guest:Well, I ended up, I never had a major.
Guest:I ended up leaning towards parks and recreation.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Because none of them appealed to me, and I thought, you know, this is... I didn't know that was... It's an actual thing, yeah.
Guest:What would you study in that?
Guest:Well, what I liked, I didn't get very far with it, but what I liked about it was the idea of, you know, I'd be like a ranger or something.
Guest:I'd just hang out in the park all day.
Guest:It's probably not... Get a nice hat.
Guest:Yeah, get a nice hat.
Marc:Maybe some shorts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kind of walk around.
Marc:But I never got that far.
Marc:Be careful with that cookout.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Don't feed the squirrels.
Marc:We got too many squirrels.
Marc:Do you have that in you?
Marc:Are you a nature guy?
Marc:Do you do that?
Guest:Well, why that appealed to me at the time is I was working at a gas station and I really liked working at the gas station because it gave me a lot of time to sort through my thoughts and stuff.
Guest:You know, just standing there and collecting money at the self-serve island and putting gas in the full service.
Marc:Oh, back in the day where you actually like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I liked that.
Guest:Cleaning windows?
Guest:Cleaning windows, yeah.
Guest:Do you have a cycle of thoughts?
Guest:Was there a circle of a... At the time, I really needed like that kind of thing because I just was so full of ideas and trying to sort it all out and make sense of it all, you know?
Guest:Like what?
Guest:You know, music and songs and... Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, and just, you know, what the hell did it do with your 18-year-old life?
Marc:Were you writing stuff down then?
Marc:Were you writing songs?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it like, did any of them sort of hold...
Marc:Through to, like, Beautiful Freak or anything?
Guest:There's a couple things from, like, really early teen days, I think, that stuck with me somehow that I turned into something else later.
Guest:Yeah, are they phrases or words or a hook or... Sometimes, like, a melody and sometimes a chord progression or sometimes a lyric, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay, so you load up, you leave your home, your parents are like, what?
Marc:Or they were like, good luck?
Guest:It was just my mom at that point.
Marc:Oh, yeah, he was already on.
Marc:Did that, when you found your dad dead, I mean, both of my parents are still alive, so I can't identify with it.
Marc:But in looking back, since you- Wow, so you still got a Christmas shop?
Marc:We don't do that.
Marc:Occasionally, I'll write my day.
Marc:He'll write me an email, and I'll write back.
Marc:I don't give a shit.
Marc:Leave me alone.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I love you, but don't do this anymore.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Why do you still bother me?
Marc:I thought I was through this.
Marc:See, that makes me feel better.
Marc:It might be how it would be for me, too.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, the only thing after a certain point that can change is you.
Marc:Because they're not all of a sudden going to be like, I'm ready to be your dad now.
Marc:Dad, I'm 40.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, I covered that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, what were the feelings?
Marc:Do you remember immediately, outside of grief, how they defined you?
Marc:When I found my father, Dad?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was a really weird situation because...
Guest:um i was you know i had to perform cpr on him and everything right and you heard him drop no i found him laying there and i called for an ambulance and they taught me how to do cpr and uh they had me pick up his body and put it on the floor and it was just weird to be touching my father you know because we just didn't have any kind of relationship really right so it was very strange to be in this weird intimate situation but he was
Marc:dead yeah and so that that's enough of a mind blower right there yeah it was it was hard to know how to feel right right because you didn't have this they didn't have a relationship it was just plain old weird did you did you find yourself grieving at some point yeah
Marc:But it took a while to, you know, figure out what I was grieving.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And in terms of, like, have you put together, like, because I know with parents and with myself that if you don't have them there in a real way, in a grounded way or in a way that you can engage with, you sort of kind of fall through life, you know, looking for that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you have those feelings?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't think it through that much.
Guest:I mean, I might as well have been raised by wolves, and they just didn't know what they were doing with kids.
Guest:They didn't have malicious intentions, and they weren't mean parents, but they were just so... It was like the classic case where I had to be a little adult.
Guest:I had to say, straighten your act up, mister, to myself.
Guest:And so I kind of gave up on them pretty early on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And your mom, too?
Yeah.
Guest:In a sense.
Guest:I mean, she was like a warm person.
Guest:She was really a very kind and warm and loving person.
Guest:So I'm grateful I got that from her.
Guest:But she was also a little bit of a kind of lost little girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's weird when you realize that your parents are not capable.
Marc:That there's that moment where you're like, I had no idea what...
Marc:They just thought they were supposed to do this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And here I am.
Marc:And I guess they probably had their hands full with your sister most of the time.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:My mom basically spent her whole life taking care of my sister.
Marc:So when you came out here, the idea was what?
Marc:I'm going to be a singer-songwriter?
Marc:Or you didn't really know?
Guest:I didn't really know.
Guest:I just knew I wanted to do something with music.
Guest:And I probably would have been happy to just work it.
Guest:making coffee at a recording studio or anything you know who knows what could have happened depending on what i didn't get any opportunities you know for three years i was here and it was just a nightmare what were you doing i was just working a lot of really shitty jobs that i hated and uh not getting anywhere nobody i was but i was always doing um what they call the nashville handshake like whenever i met anybody that was in the music industry i have tape you got tape yeah put tape in their palms
Guest:What was on the tape?
Guest:You know, whatever four songs I had just recorded that week.
Guest:I was constantly writing and recording, just obsessively.
Guest:What was your equipment, though?
Guest:Hundreds of songs.
Guest:I had a four-track cassette deck, and my recording studio was literally my closet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you just waited?
Guest:And I only had one speaker.
Guest:I didn't have room to make stereo mixes, because I didn't have anywhere to put a second speaker.
Guest:Did you have drums?
Guest:I did not have drums.
Guest:I had a drum machine.
Guest:Yeah, and so you were playing guitar and singing the songs?
Guest:And layering things.
Guest:And I bought a Fender Rhodes piano at a yard sale.
Guest:And then I add that into the mix.
Guest:So where were you living?
Guest:I was living across from the Burbank Airport.
Guest:That's how clueless I was about California.
Marc:I like hearing this stuff because L.A.
Marc:can be one of the most isolating, sad fucking cities in the world.
Marc:And when you really don't know anybody and you don't even know where to live, you feel like you're on another planet.
Marc:And now just picturing you in your closet with one speaker in your four track across from the Burbank airport.
Guest:Man, it was depressing.
Guest:And I lived in this duplex downstairs.
Guest:There was this guy that sounded like he was always beating up his kids.
Guest:And I had roommates.
Guest:One of them was a coke head.
Guest:It was just...
Guest:Really?
Guest:Dark times.
Guest:He was at it all night and had people coming over.
Guest:No, no, it wasn't that bad, but he was an irresponsible co-kid roommate.
Marc:Did he have show business aspirations?
Guest:Not that I recall.
Marc:So when did the Nashville handshake pay off?
Guest:Eventually it did.
Guest:That's the amazing thing.
Guest:Eventually I met a guy named John Carter.
Guest:He worked for Atlantic Records and I couldn't believe it.
Guest:He called me the next morning and said he really liked the tape and wanted to sign me to Atlantic Records and I just couldn't believe it.
Guest:Were you like, come on, who is this?
Guest:Of course he left me this cryptic message with no callback number or anything.
Marc:Yeah, just to fuck with you.
Guest:And of course, I didn't get signed to Atlantic Records then because the president of the label didn't share his opinion about my tape.
Guest:So that was another crushing defeat, I'm sure.
Guest:But it led to him becoming my manager eventually.
Guest:And then that did lead to him getting me a record deal.
Marc:And that wasn't Beautiful Freak, though, right?
Guest:No, so first I did two records just as E. Yeah.
Guest:And so that first one came out in 1992.
Guest:It's been 20 years since I had a day job.
Guest:It's a fucking beautiful thing.
Marc:It's the greatest thing ever.
Marc:I know that when I talk to somebody like you, who I've talked to before and whose music I enjoy, but I know that there are people that are just fucking E freaks and Eels freaks, and I'm going to do some tremendous disservice.
Marc:to them by not being enmeshed enough in your entire catalog.
Guest:Well, you know, I think of myself as an E-freak, and I think you're doing fine.
Marc:Well, let's just go through them.
Marc:So the first record was just you.
Marc:The first E-record?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, there's really no difference in my mind.
Guest:It's just the name change, because the manager, Carter, at the time told me, you know,
Guest:You need a band name.
Guest:I was like, okay, what's going to change?
Guest:He's like, nothing.
Guest:So how did you come up with Eels?
Guest:He came up with it because, and this was a really short-sighted idea of his, and he just died recently, so God rest his soul, but this was a dumb idea.
Guest:He said it'll be Eels because you've got these two records under E, and this way they'll be next to each other in the record store.
Yeah.
Guest:And then it wasn't until the first Eagles record came out and I was in a record store and I was like, hey, well, let's see if that's true.
Guest:And then I see there's like 28 Earth, Wind, and Fire and Eagles records in between them.
Marc:But there you were.
Marc:But then I'm stuck with the name.
Marc:I'm still using it.
Marc:There it is.
Marc:Hotel California, Eagle's Greatest Hits, Eagle's Greatest Hits.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the first Yields record, Beautiful Freak, was you and how many other people?
Marc:I mean, how do you work with the musician?
Guest:Well, you know, when it came out and we went on tour and everything, it was a three-piece band, and a few of the songs were recorded that way, but almost all of it I had already done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it wasn't actually the three guys that went on tour.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I often do something different when we go on tour and perform the stuff live than what we do in the studio.
Guest:Well, you make like one record a year, it seems.
Guest:Well, I would like to do that, but it's more like one every two years usually, maybe.
Guest:And then sometimes there was a four-year gap at one point.
Guest:What'd you do during that gap?
Guest:Well, what I did was after that four-year gap, I put out three records that came out six months apart from each other.
Guest:So you're just loading up.
Guest:But yeah, so everyone thinks that I probably made each of those records in a hurry.
Guest:Like I made the first one and then quickly made the next one so it could come out six months later.
Guest:But no, I had four years to make all three of them.
Marc:But I didn't know that, you know, did your father work for the government as well?
Guest:Yeah, and then when he gave up on physics, he ended up working at the Pentagon.
Guest:So how old were you then?
Guest:Well, that was the 60s, so I was a really little kid.
Guest:Did you go to the Pentagon?
Guest:I don't remember ever going to the Pentagon, but I did go as part of the documentary about my father.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:That was amazing.
Guest:They let me in.
Guest:So who made this documentary?
Guest:Well, it was originally made by the BBC, and then they played it on Nova.
Marc:But was it one of those documentaries where it's like, we need to give this guy his due?
Marc:Or were you part of the package where you're like, this guy's got this rock kid?
Guest:Yeah, they had the whole thing planned, and they just came to me and said, do you want to be involved in this?
Guest:And I thought, I guess.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Do I?
Guest:I just took a chance.
Guest:I thought, well, this will be interesting at the very least.
Guest:But I thought they did a great job.
Marc:And so he worked right in there in the Pentagon.
Guest:No, he was like very high up, you know, advising presidents about war.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how did, did you have feelings about that?
Guest:Well, what I learned in this documentary is that he did something that surprised me, that he was kind of instrumental in telling them, don't make so many giant bombs.
Guest:Like, you know, it's going to be too devastating and it's, you know, not what they do.
Guest:Can't have him around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he actually did something good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, when 9-11 happened, you had some speculation about that?
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Well, the really weird thing about 9-11 was that my cousin, Jennifer, was a flight attendant on the plane that hit the Pentagon.
Guest:And her husband, they were both flight attendants on it.
Guest:your first cousin yeah oh my god yeah so that was a weird one and i always wondered and i don't want to know like what if that's where my dad's office was where they hit that would be you know does your does your brain naturally do that yeah i always do like you know i have that kind of brain that always wants to think of the most inappropriate or shocking thing
Marc:Yeah, or connect the dots.
Guest:Or connect the dots.
Marc:You know, there's got to be some semblance.
Marc:There's got to be some, well, that's horrible.
Marc:I mean, you've had some fairly horrible sort of losses.
Guest:Yeah, but the positive thing that can come out of that, if you're lucky and work hard enough on it, is it can help you really savor the good stuff in life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you like?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I'm like anybody, really.
Guest:It's like rock music and girls and booze and food and whatever, all the great pleasures in life, but the point is that I need to appreciate all that stuff, because I know what it's like when stuff sucks.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And where do you stand with God?
Marc:Anywhere?
Guest:I'm trying to think of some pithy one-liner.
Guest:You can pull an Oscar Wilde number on me.
Guest:I don't, you know, I mean, whatever.
Guest:I have a feeling I stay in the same place you do.
Marc:Yeah, I try.
Marc:I'm fairly noncommittal.
Marc:Yeah, occasionally I'll get a little mystical when you start saying things like, I wonder if the plane hit my dad's office.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, life is full of these weird little surprises where you go like, gosh, maybe I don't know everything.
Marc:and i like when that happens but you can actually say maybe my father was right you know like maybe like not only do i not know everything but there's a lot going on in those other three or four universes yeah that's true so now let's get to wonderful and glorious the one that i wasn't sent it's called wonderful comma glorious technically there's a comma now is this uh pretentious is it is it a change in direction man
Guest:Well, what's different about the new record more than anything is that it's extremely collaborative with the band that I've been touring with for the last few times we've been around the world on tour.
Guest:These guys, we wrote all this stuff together, and that hadn't happened before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And who are these guys?
Guest:These guys are Chet, Peeboo, Knuckles, the drummer, and Honest Owl on bass.
Guest:They all have funny names.
Guest:And they're just like, you know, I think a lot of groups that are married to the same members tend to make the same record over and over again sometimes because they're limited by the imaginations of those four or five guys.
Guest:And so that's one of the reasons why I often have rotated the personnel of the touring eels.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I haven't felt the need for that with these guys because they're just so talented and have such big imaginations.
Guest:And where'd they come from?
Guest:What's their pedigrees?
Guest:I mean, they're just dudes?
Guest:LA rock guys?
Guest:They're like most of the people I work with.
Guest:They're just nobodies that I turn into somebody.
Guest:No, look at you.
Guest:I'm the idol maker.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:and then ultimately I can't afford to work with them anymore yeah now when you tour like who do you go out with usually I mean as opening bands like have you seen guys that you've gone out with like just become superstars oh yeah that phenomenon yeah
Guest:I don't know if that's happened to us that much.
Guest:Maybe it has, and I can't remember.
Guest:I think probably once he opened for us, it's just the death knell.
Guest:It's all downhill after that.
Guest:And how did you meet Pete Townsend?
Guest:When did that happen?
Guest:Oh, when did that happen?
Guest:He was doing this thing...
Guest:He was doing this little internet TV show with his girlfriend in a trailer next to the main stage at a festival in England, and he just asked if I wanted to be on the show, and I was like... Yeah, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Were you a who guy?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I went through a major ninth grade who... Who-ism?
Guest:...year.
Guest:Probably lasted a whole year.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Instead of the usual two months.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's like, when you really listen to him play guitar, I mean, he's just a fucking wizard of wisdom.
Guest:He's an amazing guitar player.
Marc:And it's bizarre.
Guest:No one plays like him.
Guest:And the best guitar tones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, just so meaty.
Guest:Who are your other guys?
Guest:Page.
Guest:Guitar guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Jimmy Page is an amazing guitarist.
Guest:I mean, nobody can deny that.
Marc:I mean, come on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You like Angus Young?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Fucking great, right?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Now, when did you shift out of the classic rock mode into a more... Because it seems like when you listen to the records, you got a lot of things going on.
Marc:Got some static going on, some talking, some record skipping, maybe a light hip-hop influence, definitely some punk rock sensibility.
Guest:yeah i went through everything you know and i went through like heavy country phases and i went through a heavy bluegrass thing because you know there's a bluegrass station in virginia when i was growing up and uh you know i like all the the classics hank williams and yeah and george jones george jones amazing great right yeah fucking willie willie who doesn't love willie how can you how can you not love willie yeah you have to yeah this should be a law i've been willie nelson twice for halloween you have
Marc:in my teens really yeah wow now i want to know some of the other costumes i don't remember but you know you remember willie huh i remember willie yeah because i remember that i was like i can't believe i'm doing this again it worked once why not fucking just do it yeah okay so you do this fucking new record with such an uplifting title i mean how's your how's your head man
Guest:My head hurts.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I mean, the thing is, I'm one of the few people in the world that gets to do what he actually wants to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I don't take that lightly.
Guest:So for me to spend my days in dread when that's true, that doesn't seem right.
Marc:Are you ever concerned that without this sort of...
Marc:I don't see it as dark music, but it sort of functions for me the same way blues music does.
Marc:It gives a sort of... It gives almost like a kind of... Almost a celebration of pain.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I've always thought about it.
Guest:I've always approached it like some version of blues, even if it's not musically what we think of as the blues.
Guest:Sometimes it is, but that's what I've always thought of it is the approach.
Guest:It's just like, that's what's great about the blues is...
Guest:By making it a musical story, you're somehow adding this dash of magic to it that makes it not all sad.
Marc:It's amazing, right?
Marc:I've been listening to blues my whole life, and I don't know if any of that really old stuff, where it's just a staticky guy with a guitar howling.
Marc:You just described our latest record.
Yeah.
Marc:You are a blues man.
Marc:Static guitar and howling.
Marc:No, but like, when I was, the last time I was severely heartbroken,
Marc:Like, you know, you romanticize all this stuff.
Marc:You grow up with music and you identify with it and you identify with the personalities of it and you like their guitar playing.
Marc:There's some part of you that thinks that, well, I can never be that good.
Marc:And these guys rock my ass off.
Marc:They're the fucking awesome.
Marc:And then like, like the last time I was severely heartbroken, I'm like, well, I'm going to apply the medicine.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to listen to the blues to see, you know, what that, you know, if it can actually, you know, solve my broken heart.
Marc:And it fucking does.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It works.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like if you have that heaviness or that pain and you fucking lock in.
Marc:And it's the same with your music.
Marc:You put it on.
Marc:You're like, this is speaking directly to the injury.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I mean, part of it's the misery loves company thing.
Guest:You know, it's just very comforting to know you're not alone.
Guest:You're not the only person that feels like this.
Marc:But even some of the, like, in your stories and some of the sort of landscapes that you create, they're not happy places, but they're real places.
Marc:And, you know, you choose them.
Marc:And then you're sort of walking through this.
Marc:And I don't know what it is, but it seems like it's more...
Marc:I don't like uplifting things that are uplifting on purpose.
Marc:I don't love positive people that much.
Marc:I find it dubious.
Marc:But there's something about grit.
Marc:And sort of a celebration of the real that's like, fucking, that's good.
Guest:Well, I'm always striving to be that positive person, but I have so much of the other side working against it that it doesn't make it, even on my best days, it's not going to be unbearable for anybody.
Marc:So you strive, but you know that you will never meet it, so somehow that puts you in the middle of, I'm okay at parties.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Have you ever sort of, like, applied any sort of, like, tools to, like, you know, I'm going to do this differently.
Marc:I'm going to be happy today.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, I honestly, whenever I can think of that, I do try to apply it.
Guest:Like, I feel like we have a choice every day or every hour or every minute to, like, be happier or not than we are.
Guest:You know, it's really, like...
Guest:There is a choice in the matter.
Guest:You can be unhappy or you can look around at all the good things about your life, you know, that kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I do try to do that a lot, but I don't do it enough, but I'm always trying to do it.
Marc:That's the gratitude list concept.
Marc:Well, what's that?
Marc:Well, basically, like, I feel like shit and everything sucks and what's the fucking point?
Marc:Maybe I'll make a list of the good things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:there's always somebody worse off you know and certainly a lot of people worse off than me so I don't I don't feel like I have the right to you know complain
Marc:Now, how do you, like, as, like, I just started to sort of gain some people who seem to like me, specifically, as opposed in a general way.
Marc:Yeah, your shit's blowing up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, how do you, like, when you look at your fans, you know, who are they?
Marc:Because I find that, like, my honest fans are sort of, like, some reflection of me.
Marc:You know, like, they're generally, like, I don't attract an age group.
Marc:I attract a disposition.
Marc:Right.
Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Slightly kind of like sensitive, sometimes angry.
Marc:Right.
Marc:A lot of times sort of like not that socially interactive.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And they all show up.
Marc:Disgruntled postal worker.
Marc:Not quite that far.
Marc:I don't have any fans that come up to me and I'm nervous.
Marc:You know, I have all your records.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I do find some comfort in that.
Marc:Like, have you ever had that moment where you look at your fans and you're like, are they me?
Marc:Is this part of me?
Marc:Well, they are part of you because they're being moved by you.
Marc:So have you ever had that moment where you're like, maybe I don't know exactly who I am because there seems to be a lot of commonality among the people that like me.
Guest:It's one of those things that I don't think about too much because I've always just treated myself as the audience.
Guest:I'm just trying to impress myself.
Guest:Imagine I'm in the audience.
Guest:You can't write a song and go, this will make this kind of audience react or something.
Guest:So you just impress yourself.
Guest:What I do like about our audience, from what I can tell from night to night and looking out into the house,
Guest:Is that it is always different.
Guest:You know, there is no, there's no actual demographic, you know, that I can see that's consistent.
Guest:It's always different.
Guest:So it is just about, you know, people's mindset or whatever, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know exactly what that is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Have you ever had, have you ever been completely misunderstood?
Yeah.
Guest:I often wonder if like in foreign countries, non-English speaking countries, if they're assigning a lot more credit to the lyrics and they're really there or something.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Boy, these people sure think I'm a genius for some reason.
Marc:Well, I think in music that if you, you know, music can all be very simple, but if you are, you know, if you have the sound that defines you, you've done something.
Marc:yeah you know what i mean you've done an amazing thing there's genius in that like i mean they're like you can put on a record of yours and be like oh that's of course that's that's that's that's e and that's like that's that's what you're really going for right there's an honesty to that yeah hopefully you know yeah i mean a lot of times when i hear my own records it's like it's so me you know it like it rubs me the wrong way believe me
Guest:Because it makes you feel kind of naked and exposed, and you're just like, ugh.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:It's always weird when you hear yourself on the radio or something.
Guest:You're like, God, it sounds so much worse than all the songs before it and after it.
Guest:Because it's me.
Marc:And other people are listening to this right now.
Guest:Yeah, this is embarrassing.
Guest:Cover me up.
Guest:Put something on, man.
Marc:That's really the worst experience of that.
Marc:Like, you know, it's one thing...
Marc:To sort of listen to yourself, or in my case, see yourself on television and go, oh, you're terrible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there's a whole different thing where you're like, oh, my God, it's so raw.
Marc:Like, I'm just showing that to people, and ugh, what are they going to do with that?
Marc:You know, why didn't somebody take care of that?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I try to have a mechanism that doesn't let that stop me.
Guest:Like, if I write something, a lyric in a song, and I'm like, oh, boy, that's going to be embarrassing.
Guest:I just say, well, that probably means I got to go with it.
Marc:Because it's going to be more real.
Marc:Yeah, honesty to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, do you want to play some tunes?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Are they using your music in any movies?
Guest:That happens, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I saw that.
Guest:Do you ever score?
Guest:I have a couple times.
Guest:That's hard.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I mean, what's hard about it is...
Guest:Trying to make somebody else happy.
Guest:Turns out not my thing.
Guest:Not my jam.
Guest:Believe me.
Marc:That's a big problem in life in general.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is how much you're going to do that.
Guest:This is one from the new album and it's called True Original.
Guest:She's a true original Not some store-bought rebel She can find her own way home You just have to let her
Guest:Whichever path she finds It's hers to take And if she says she's fine You just have to wait for her She's an artist in the world
Guest:She composes from the heart The finished song is always there Well before she starts And anytime she might
Guest:get the words wrong you just turn it up and you you sing along with her
Guest:If a gun was pointed at her I would stand between the bullet and her And if not being with me is what makes her happy I'd take that bullet too
Guest:Whichever path she finds, it's hers to take And if she says she's fine, I just have to wait for her
Guest:She's a true original
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's a great one.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Is that about anybody?
Guest:That was about somebody, yeah.
Guest:You don't know her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is she gone?
Guest:No, she's around.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:I mean, it's a long story, but she's not part of my life or anything, but she's around.
Guest:She was part of your life, though, huh?
Guest:Perhaps.
Guest:That's a heartbreaker, buddy.
Guest:It happens, you know.
Marc:It's part of life.
Marc:You know, the whole accepting people's choices when they're not about you.
Marc:That's tough.
Marc:It's a tough one.
Guest:It's fucking tough.
Guest:Tough pill to swallow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but I am of the belief that it is better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all.
Guest:At least you were lucky enough to experience love.
Guest:That's a good thing.
Guest:That's something you learn from country songs.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:George Jones taught me that a long time ago.
Marc:You know, when you hear those things before you've had some life, it's just sort of like a romantic idea.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when you start to really invest your heart and it doesn't go the way you want it, you literally get to a point.
Marc:I mean, I agree with you.
Marc:It's better to love and to have lost and to never have loved at all.
Marc:But after a certain point, you're like...
Marc:God, do I want to do that again?
Marc:You do get gun-shy at times.
Marc:When you really feel heartbreak and you know the pain of it, you're like, I don't know, man.
Marc:I mean, I'm 49.
Marc:How many more of those do I get?
Guest:I don't know if I can live through another one of those.
Guest:I know exactly what you're talking about.
Guest:And it's like, it's a young man's game.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In a way, though, it's a little easier, I think, as an older guy.
Guest:Because when you're young, you're so clueless.
Guest:And you just think you're going to die.
Guest:By your own hand, usually.
Guest:Yeah, hopefully.
Guest:But yeah, now you can go, okay, I survived that.
Guest:You can see that really time can heal.
Guest:That's true, but when you're in it, it's not always clear.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we have that wisdom at least now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it doesn't make it any less painful at the time.
Marc:Have you ever been at that precipice where you realize like...
Marc:when you're heartbroken and it's done whatever it is and you know you you realize well i can either be bitter and angry maybe for the rest of my life or i could just experience the fucking grief of this right it's and it's such a hard choice to make
Guest:Because you're never in the mood for grief.
Guest:But it's the right choice to make if you're strong enough to do it to just go, I don't want this to ruin my whole life.
Guest:I'm just going to deal with this now.
Guest:But it's pretty hard to make that choice.
Marc:And I appreciate what you're saying about a young man's game.
Marc:And when you're older, you got wisdom.
Marc:But even when you're older and you find yourself in that situation, knowing what you know, you're like, okay, the worst that can happen is that.
Marc:But when you say that, you're usually blinded.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Blinded by the love.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you still don't think you're going to have to deal with that again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, who knows?
Marc:You know, it's another record, right?
Guest:Well, I got enough of those.
Guest:I'm not someone that goes out looking for drama so I have something to write about.
Guest:No, I don't think.
Guest:Because that shit has just been thrust upon me so much.
Guest:I don't need to do that.
Guest:I have the opposite problem with so many people who do what I do.
Guest:I'm looking for nice things to be thrust upon me and I like to write about that for a change.
Marc:Well, when people ask me that, do you think you'd be a different type?
Marc:Would you still be funny without your anger, without your pain?
Marc:As if that's some sort of agenda we're maintaining.
Marc:I never looked for that.
Guest:Did you see the 60-minute thing about Judd recently?
Guest:Uh-uh.
Guest:It was really touching, because they had a part where they showed a scene from Freaks and Geeks, where the really geeky one, Martin Starr, was...
Guest:And he was really unhappy and he would go home and- Oh, eat the sandwich and watch the- And watch the TV show and start laughing while the Who song is playing.
Guest:And Judd said that was basically him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was that kid too.
Guest:I was exactly that too.
Guest:I think that's where my funniness came from.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Just that humor was so effective at relieving the isolation of being that kid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was great talking to you, Mark.
Guest:It was a lot of fun.
Guest:It's fun to finally see where all the magic happens.
Guest:And thanks for having me here.
Guest:It was a pleasure.
Guest:Let's do it again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You feel good about it?
Guest:I feel great.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's the show.
Marc:Holy shit, I feel like I want to play some more guitar.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Because at the end, there's less pressure at the end.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like right now, I don't know who's hanging out.
Marc:You can go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:See how that goes?
Marc:You can get some merch.
Guest:You can get on the mailing list.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:You can, what else can you do?
Marc:Yeah, check the episode guide, leave some comments.
Marc:You can get the app and upgrade to the premium app.
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:I'm just, I'm not even, I'm just practicing.
Marc:Boomer lives.