Episode 369 - Lynn Shawcroft
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:And what the fuckaholics?
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I'm happy you are here.
Marc:I'm happy to be back.
Marc:I was in Austin, Texas at South by Southwest.
Marc:But before I get into what's happening with me and the show, can I just put something out there, please?
Marc:If you could, if you're planning on buying my book, Attempting Normal, preorder it.
Marc:Pre-order it now at Amazon or Barnes & Noble or Powell's or whatever bookseller you want to do it with because I'm told that that makes a difference in some way with the numbers, with the this, with the that.
Marc:So if you're going to buy it, buy it now if you would.
Marc:And I'll try not to pester you too much, but I can't guarantee I won't pester you a bit if that's okay.
Marc:I'm proud of the book.
Marc:I like it.
Marc:I think you'll like it.
Marc:There's a lot of stuff in there that you don't know about me.
Marc:There's some different takes on stuff you do know about me.
Marc:It's funny.
Marc:It's dark.
Marc:It makes me uncomfortable.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:It makes me uncomfortable that it's out there, so that should be encouraging for you.
Marc:Let me give you some upcoming dates.
Marc:I will be in Chicopee, Massachusetts at the Hooky Lao.
Marc:The Hooky Lao, Friday, March 29th.
Marc:Those are the dates that we are doing to make up for those snow days.
Marc:March 30th at the Wilbur with a live stand-up hour or two and a live WTF.
Marc:Two shows that night.
Marc:Thursday, April 4th through April 6th, I'll be at Cracker's.
Marc:in indianapolis just added those haven't been to india in a while looking forward to it probably stopped by the bob and tom show say hi to those fellas april 13th i will be at the palace of fine arts in san francisco april 19th i will be at the music fest cafe in bethlehem pennsylvania and april 24th through 27th i'm going back to austin texas to do the moon tower comedy festival
Marc:I did not do comedy at South by Southwest because I wanted to do the Moon Tower Comedy Festival because I had a great time there last year.
Marc:And it's going to be great.
Marc:We're going to do some stand up.
Marc:We're going to do live WTF.
Marc:And a little further in the future, May 4th, I will be at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Marc:I would like to add that in April, mid-April, I will be taping an hour special in New York City at an undisclosed location right now.
Marc:I will figure out a way to get you guys involved who want to come.
Marc:I imagine that I'll get plenty of people to come.
Marc:There's going to be two shows, but maybe I can put something together, a special offer or something like that.
Marc:Okay, today on the show, Lynn Shawcroft, whose late husband was Mitch Hedberg, is going to talk a bit about their relationship, about his comedy, about her comedy, and about what happened.
Marc:And it's deep stuff.
Marc:If you're a Mitch fan, as many of us were, some of it's hard to hear, but I was happy that Lynn came and talked about it candidly, and it was a good talk, and we'll get to that in a second.
Marc:I was in South by Southwest.
Marc:I mentioned that, but I should mention the reason I was there.
Marc:Why was I at South by Southwest?
Marc:IFC brought me out there to announce the premiere date of the show Marin, which is a show about a guy who runs a podcast out of his garage.
Marc:He has cats.
Marc:He's troubled a bit.
Marc:He's a little aggravated.
Marc:Yes, it's a show based on me.
Marc:And it premieres May 3rd, my friends.
Marc:It's all happening.
Marc:All this stuff that wasn't real is real.
Marc:The book is real.
Marc:The show is real.
Marc:It's all happening.
Marc:What am I in the movie?
Marc:Almost Famous.
Marc:It's all happening.
Marc:And I'm very proud of all of it.
Marc:And I wouldn't tell you that if I didn't believe it.
Marc:I feel that I did a good job with these things, and I hope you enjoy them.
Marc:So May 3rd on IFC is the premiere of Marin.
Marc:Some of the press kits have gone out already.
Marc:People are looking at the first three episodes, which makes me nervous.
Marc:That's the weird thing about it is that
Marc:This couldn't have really happened at a better point in my life in terms of, you know, there's a lot of things you get older and, you know, you realize a lot of things you don't have to fucking freak out about and drive yourself crazy.
Marc:I can't say I'm totally there, but certainly I'm excited.
Marc:Whereas I think a few years ago I would have been consumed with dread and panic that nobody would like it.
Marc:I'm not saying that that's not in me, but I'm calling it excitement.
Marc:I've rephrased it.
Marc:I've reframed it in my mind.
Marc:Hey, why dread?
Marc:Why assume the worst when it might be great?
Marc:Why not live in that space?
Marc:Okay, I'm doing it now.
Marc:Can you hear the excitement in my voice?
Marc:Okay, now I'm going to give you what the other one sounds like.
Marc:Oh, fuck, man.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:I mean, you know, I mean, I'm happy with it, but I mean, I don't know how other people are going to react and like, shit, fuck.
Marc:What if they don't like the book?
Marc:What if no one buys the book?
Marc:What if no one watches the show?
Marc:What if they don't like the show?
Marc:What the fuck am I going to do then?
Marc:I mean, God damn it.
Marc:See, which would you prefer?
Marc:I'm excited.
Marc:I'm happy about this stuff and I'm proud of it and I put a lot of work into it and I can't wait for you to see it or God damn it.
Marc:Damn it, I don't even want to watch it.
Marc:I don't even want to watch it.
Marc:What if I see my book and... Which would you prefer?
Marc:I have to be honest with you.
Marc:Both of those are happening simultaneously.
Marc:So now you know where I'm living.
Marc:Now you know what my life is like inside.
Marc:I do want to say that I had a nice time at Southwest.
Marc:We did some events for the show.
Marc:I did a panel on alternative comedy.
Marc:I did a live WTF with Peter Sagal, Nate Bargetsy.
Marc:who is one of my favorite comics right now.
Marc:I did, who else was on?
Marc:Harmony Corrine and James Franco.
Marc:That got weird.
Marc:I don't want to tip it too much.
Marc:I don't want to spoil it.
Marc:So I'll just say it got weird.
Marc:Not a bad weird, but a definitive type of weird.
Marc:Those two are not easy fellas.
Marc:Uh, I did see Harmony Kareem's new movie, uh, the, uh, the spring breakers and, and it, you know, he's got a groove, he's got a style, he's got a, a feel.
Marc:And there are a couple of scenes in that movie that are mind blowing.
Marc:And James Franco was spectacular.
Marc:I will say that unsolicited.
Marc:That is, I was just fortunate.
Marc:I got to see the movie and,
Marc:But right now, the conversation with Lynn Shawcroft was a long time coming.
Marc:I'd originally approached her and she wasn't ready to do it.
Marc:She wanted me to know that it's hard for her, that Mitch Hedberg was her husband.
Marc:She loved him and it was difficult to discuss it.
Marc:But time passed and she reached out to me and we had the conversation.
Marc:The first time I met Mitch was probably 1992, maybe.
Marc:92?
Marc:Is that possible?
Marc:92 or 93 at the San Francisco Comedy Competition.
Marc:We were in it together.
Marc:Over the years, we'd hang out together occasionally.
Marc:We'd co-headline together in Seattle.
Marc:I spent time with Mitch.
Marc:I ate a couple meals with Mitch.
Marc:I did a bunch of drugs with Mitch.
Marc:We'd run into each other here and there.
Marc:I had a lot of respect for Mitch, as many of you did.
Marc:He's a very funny guy, very original guy, the real deal, and we lost him.
Marc:So this conversation is loaded with that.
Marc:But I think we, you know, Lynn and I, we did all right with it.
Marc:And I hope you appreciate it.
Marc:So let's talk now to Lynn Shawcroft.
Guest:why don't i try to uh ease some of your fears what do you think is going on with me what are you nervous about i don't well i have a real i don't really under like i'm not sure what you're perceiving with you have a worldview no just in general okay okay so just in general i don't know what you're picking up in life so for a while i think i thought he didn't pick up anything and then i'm like oh no maybe he picks up everything
Marc:Like, what do you mean in a general sense?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, are you oblivious?
Guest:Like, are you so locked in that you don't know characters and humans walking around?
Guest:Or are you very aware of it?
Marc:So I don't know.
Guest:And what's the... It would be better if no one knew what was going on because then you can just exist.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Then if people are perceptive, maybe they can.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:So what's the Lynn Shawcroft jury say about me?
Marc:What did you decide finally?
Guest:Well, I think before I thought maybe not oblivious, but just like... Self-involved.
Guest:Or no, like that doesn't... Well, maybe, but definitely not that.
Guest:But then I think I've heard you say like, yeah, there was a guy at the airport that was doing this.
Guest:I'm like, oh my God, he knows about people.
Marc:Of course I know about people.
Marc:I have a general sense.
Marc:I can't say I'm always right.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Well, no one can be because you're only looking through your eyes that you have had until now or your brain.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So where are you living now?
Marc:Do you still, are you up in the cabin?
Guest:Can I ask you a question?
Marc:What?
Marc:Are we recording?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yes, I do.
Marc:You still live up there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you commute or you just, you, well.
Guest:Well, I had an apartment here.
Guest:Well, Mitch and I bought, Mitch Fattel and I bought that in 1999.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Don't tell Mitch Hedberg.
Marc:That's horrible.
Marc:Bought it in 1999.
Marc:I remember, I remember sort of that time.
Guest:Our mortgage was like $350.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was really cheap.
Guest:So yeah, I'm up there and then John Doerr just bought a house up there too.
Marc:Oh really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For a nickel?
Guest:Not bad.
Guest:You can get a lot for your money up there.
Marc:And how far is that?
Marc:Like an hour and a half?
Guest:He lives more like Lake Arrowhead.
Guest:You've been to Lake Arrowhead, right?
Marc:Not really.
Marc:I don't do the lake recreation cabin.
Guest:No, but I saw once that you went up to like some podcasting.
Marc:Oh, yes.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So that's sort of where he lives.
Guest:And I live in a small town near there.
Guest:So it's about 90 minutes.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And you just make the commute?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I had an apartment after Mitch died.
Guest:I took over Bonnie McFarlane's apartment.
Guest:So I had that.
Guest:And then John and I had an apartment.
Guest:And then he just gave it up.
Guest:So we're sort of like come back and forth.
Guest:But I'm going to get a place here.
Marc:so oh good on this street really right here right down the street what would you think about that if someone did that's maria lives uh bamford lives like a half a mile from here madrigal's up uh just up over the hill he's in eagle rock i remember him yeah eagle rock's right here it's right there what are we in right now highland park okay like sort of like eagle rock adjacent you just go over that hill and you're in eagle rock
Marc:There's a few people that live out here.
Marc:So isn't that interesting that you, you know, after the grief process that you end up with a Canadian?
Marc:What's that?
Marc:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well.
Marc:Where'd you grow up though?
Guest:I grew up in Canada, but I sort of view myself as a citizen of the world.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Guest:I've shunned my Canadian.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:What part?
Guest:I grew up in Ontario, like kind of a suburb of Toronto.
Guest:And then I grew up in England a little bit.
Guest:And then I moved back to Canada and then came down here.
Guest:I came down here a couple of times.
Guest:Then when I got married, I came down.
Marc:Well, I remember, I'm trying to remember.
Marc:Why'd you go to England?
Marc:What was the movie?
Guest:My parents were British.
Guest:So this is when I was little.
Guest:I grew up there a little bit.
Marc:Your parents were British?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Well, my mom died when I was little, but they were from England.
Guest:How old?
Guest:Three.
Marc:Really?
Guest:My first memory.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How'd that happen?
Guest:Well, my mother had an aneurysm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So it was really crazy.
Guest:And the ambulance went to the wrong house.
Guest:But that's not why she died.
Marc:But the reason it resonates with me is that I know somebody who had almost that exact same experience when she was seven.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that void.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's it's a complete domino effect.
Guest:Death in a family.
Guest:It never ends.
Guest:It resounds forever.
Guest:You know, I was really young and I have a sister who was 16 at the time.
Guest:So two different total experiences.
Marc:You have a sister that's 13 years older.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:So, you know, she had a completely different experience, but it never ends.
Guest:And to this day, like it affects your family completely and it affects your viewpoint on life.
Guest:Like how?
Guest:Well, I'll tell a story like, you know, like just the fact that dealing with Mitch's death, this is when my mother died when I was three.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it's like traumatizing.
Guest:You know, my dad had four kids.
Guest:He'd moved over from England.
Guest:He'd been doing great.
Marc:You know, you were the only kid with your mom.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:My mom and dad work together.
Guest:This is the real family.
Marc:So you're an afterthought.
Guest:No, there's two in between.
Marc:Okay, all right.
Guest:And then, so when my mom died, I think it was like, I remember being like four or five and saying to my dad, like, is mom in heaven?
Guest:And he was like, no.
Guest:And I was like, is mom in hell?
Guest:And he's like, no.
Guest:And I'm like, oh my God, is she still alive?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and you're hiding and he's like no there's no such thing so this is him I don't know why he did this to like a four-year-old but then he his whole explanation of no heaven or hell or atheism is that he would be like um well do you think cabbages or carrots go to heaven and I was like no and he goes well humans are just cabbages and carrots that talk so you're five yes so that that was your father's sort of uh uh appeal to atheism yes
Marc:For a child.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So just comparing you to carrots and cabbages.
Guest:He goes, humans were just sophisticated cabbages, really.
Marc:Oh, that's kind of sweet, really.
Guest:I know, but why didn't he just go, yeah, she is?
Marc:Because I think, I don't know, I think it might have been a more important lesson to learn.
Marc:I mean, would you?
Marc:So he wasn't a religious man, obviously.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:But you had just heard probably your teacher or somebody said, yeah, like even after that, it still permeates you.
Guest:You still have that.
Marc:Do you want to believe in heaven?
Marc:Do you believe in heaven now?
Marc:Did you find God?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Well, you know, I think just even after that, I was like, my whole life was like picturing cabbages and fucking clouds.
Marc:It was a nightmare.
Marc:No difference.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but then, you know, just how, like, things you absorb in society and in your schooling and stuff like that.
Guest:Kind of a religious sort of someone's watching you thing.
Guest:And then when Mitch died, it totally, like, you really kind of want to go that way, but you don't.
Guest:And it makes you, it's like a weirder process to do with, like, absolute gone person.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, certainly as an adult and imagine.
Guest:Like white, goth the face, gone.
Marc:Yeah, and triggering all that stuff that, you know, was so young anyway.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what did your old man do?
Guest:My dad, Shawcroft Travel Service.
Guest:Can I help you?
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He was a travel agent?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But I think I still have it.
Guest:You know how some people, I have music in my jeans.
Guest:I'm like, I've got travel in my jeans.
Guest:I would like, I'll go on Orbitz all day.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Do you have a travel agent?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I like it.
Marc:Is there any reason to have a travel agent anymore?
Guest:No, but I'm appealing to comedians if they want a travel agent.
Marc:Oh, you want to operate a service for comedians?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You want to book their travel?
Guest:Maybe, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Will you get the money up from the clubs to fly his places?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Okay, so he's in the travel business, and all your siblings, they're all older now, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And everybody's still around, and it's good?
Marc:Yep.
Guest:They're up in Canada.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:And you started doing comedy in Canada?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:So when you started doing comedy, I mean, who were the people that you came up with?
Guest:Well, I was living in Vancouver and I waitressed at a comedy club there.
Guest:And I don't really remember.
Guest:Well, Bonnie had started there.
Guest:Bonnie McFarlane.
Marc:Well, she was your buddy, right?
Guest:She was my buddy.
Guest:And she had worked there as a door girl previously to me waitressing.
Guest:And she had started comedy.
Guest:And really quickly, she was in it.
Marc:Well, I remember when she showed up in New York, everybody was like, hey, who's the hot chick with the attitude from Canada?
Marc:How can we fuck her?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Bonnie, you're going to like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, she was always funny.
Guest:Yeah, really funny.
Marc:And then I remember you showed up.
Marc:You started bouncing around at some point.
Marc:I remember you visited.
Marc:Yeah, because I think when I met Mitch...
Marc:When I met Mitch, it was the San Francisco comedy competition in probably 1992.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Was Stanhope in that one?
Marc:No.
Marc:No?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I guess I'm sure they were friends, but I mean, it was 1992 and he was still, I think he was just going by one name.
Marc:I think it was just Mitch.
Guest:Oh, I should have brought you.
Guest:I was going to bring you the headshot from that era.
Marc:I remember that.
Guest:The very long, sort of innocent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it just said Mitch.
Guest:He told me, I don't know if it was that one.
Guest:I don't know if comics do, but he definitely went through the period of comedy in the beginning when it's all you can think about.
Guest:Your heart and soul is into it.
Guest:And he said he cried after that competition.
Guest:I think he was like, he figured out what comedy was and you don't win and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was emotional about that.
Guest:He was really into it then.
Marc:I think he was wearing a bandana then.
Marc:And he was real sort of young and kind of fresh.
Marc:But he made it a good run.
Marc:But that was the first time I met him.
Marc:And then I'd see him around.
Marc:But, I mean, when did you meet him first?
Marc:I mean, because I knew his first girlfriend.
Marc:I knew Jenna.
Marc:Jenna, yeah.
Marc:Are you guys friends?
Guest:Not friends friends.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you share this grief.
Guest:Yes, there's definitely this thing.
Guest:And she's involved with Mitch's family, and I'm really close to his dad and stuff.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:But, yeah, I think she's in Africa and stuff.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I never realized just how much of a road animal he was.
Guest:Completely.
Marc:Because I remember when I worked, the first time I worked Indianapolis at the Comedy Connection or somewhere, there was that bar that Chicken Patty owned, the people owned the clubs that everybody would go to afterwards, and someone just came up to me and said, there's a phone call for you.
Marc:And I go to get the phone.
Marc:I'm like, hello?
Marc:He's like, it's Mitch.
Marc:And I'm like, what's up?
Marc:He's like, I know how Indiana works.
Marc:You know, that was it.
Guest:Aw.
Guest:Yeah, I think looking back, I think he started and he never really went off the road.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Really, I mean, he may be in little portions to work on his movie or little bits, but never really stopped.
Marc:That's another question.
Marc:It was relentless.
Marc:Why don't you release that fucking movie, Lynn?
Guest:Oh, Las Enchiladas?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I will.
Guest:It's not like that.
Marc:But I asked you that two years ago.
Guest:I know, I know, I know.
Marc:It's not easy?
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Marc:What?
Guest:I want to release it.
Guest:And I didn't work on it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Which is fine.
Guest:And Jana still owns 20% of it.
Guest:So I hooked up with her.
Guest:And she's like, whatever you need.
Guest:So we start it.
Guest:But it needs music.
Guest:And it needs a few things.
Guest:So we got contacted by Shout Factory last year and I was like, excellent.
Marc:Oh, so they would release it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's all a weird era of, OK, well, once you get to that part, they're like, well, no one's buying DVDs anymore.
Guest:So I just want to release it.
Guest:Trust me.
Guest:But then about a year or something ago, this kid got it and put it online and him and I had a bit of a fight.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think I was involved in that somehow.
Marc:I think you wrote me asking a question about something.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I just like I didn't work on it.
Guest:Like if Mitch was here, I think he'd want to maybe edit it and put music in.
Guest:But it is what it is.
Guest:All I need to do is get licensed music on it and get it out.
Guest:And people have offered.
Guest:But I'll tell you later about later.
Marc:You can do it on Netflix.
Guest:I know, I know, I know.
Guest:I can release it on a freaking site.
Guest:I will.
Marc:The people that don't know, Mitch Hedberg did a movie.
Marc:I'm trying to remember what year it was.
Marc:I remember Felicia Michaels was working on it.
Marc:And Mitch directed it and acted in it.
Marc:And me, Attell, Todd Berry were all in it.
Marc:Who else was in it?
Marc:I don't remember the second lead.
Marc:He was sort of an odd guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:What other comics, though?
Marc:Do you remember?
Marc:I remember there's a big guy that played the chef.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, he was like a Minneapolis real actor, like a real actor.
Guest:He must be like, you fucking bitch, get it out before I die.
Marc:Well, we all went out there and we were excited about it.
Guest:Mitch had gone to the Montreal Comedy Festival in 1996.
Guest:This is just sort of a couple years before I met him, met him.
Guest:And he was like, I was at that festival ready.
Guest:This is it, this is my thing.
Guest:And he was getting amazing.
Guest:That's when he was getting really good.
Guest:What year?
Guest:96.
Guest:98, he got a huge deal.
Guest:But 96, I think he was just so like, I've worked on the road so long.
Guest:And he got some attention.
Guest:And then he got a deal from like a three arts thing.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So he just used that money to make a movie.
Guest:He was like, oh, I'll make a movie then.
Marc:Well, I guess like the last time, well, when did you meet?
Guest:Oh, Brian Mallow.
Guest:Sorry.
Marc:Yeah, Brian Mallow co-wrote it and stuff.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Mallow's in it.
Marc:But then there was another guy, the guy who played the goofy guy.
Marc:Don't worry about it.
Marc:It's not on you.
Marc:He wasn't a stand-up, I don't think.
Guest:No, but he like, oh, Chard Hogan.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But Stanhope wasn't in it.
Guest:No, Sound Hope wasn't in it.
Guest:Did you... The Possum was in it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Possum.
Guest:Possum is a... Okay, so Mitch started comedy, basically.
Guest:He left home at 18.
Guest:He went to L.A.
Guest:He ended up in Florida.
Guest:He was like, yes, beaches, girls, sex, pot.
Guest:And then he was working as a kitchen chef.
Guest:He was the guy with the long hair in the kitchen.
Guest:But obviously a very big dreamer and whatever.
Guest:So then he started doing comedy in Florida.
Guest:And at this time, he was living with a couple of characters, this guy named T.O.
Guest:that he knew and this guy named that ultimately became the possum.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His name is Eddie.
Guest:And Mitch convinced Eddie to start doing comedy, just kind of have like some friend.
Guest:And Eddie's still involved.
Guest:He hasn't made any money.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's ruined.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See what he misled him.
Guest:That's what I think.
Marc:Yeah, well, no, the guy's a grown man.
Marc:He can make it.
Guest:I know, but I still have Eddie in my life.
Marc:Oh, yeah, you talked to him?
Marc:Yeah, you can inherit him.
Marc:How many people do you inherit from Mitch that still wander around?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:When did you meet him, though?
Guest:I met him briefly, like around 97, but met him in 98.
Guest:He was up in Toronto doing like three weeks at a club.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we just started hanging out, and then, yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Because like my memory of him is that it was sort of hard to get him to sort of look at you.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And it was very hard to get him to sort of engage in conversation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He would sort of sum things up occasionally with a couple of words.
Guest:What did you take that as?
Guest:You didn't take that as him being avoidance, like just maybe incapable of speaking?
Marc:Well, no.
Guest:Like at the time, what did you think you thought?
Marc:Well, in retrospect, because we shared some weird moments.
Marc:I was with him backstage before his first Letterman appearance.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:With Becky and I think Todd, maybe.
Marc:It was just like the three of us with him backstage.
Marc:And he had decided to wear, I think, his grandfather's jacket.
Marc:Is that right?
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:Or his father's leather jacket that had some significance to him.
Marc:And then I literally watched him, you know, just chug like a half pint of Jack Daniels.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Just prior?
Marc:Like minutes prior.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because he needed that, like he needed to ease it up.
Guest:Yeah, it shouldn't have settled like after, but like just that maybe.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I guess to get that warmth.
Guest:yeah yeah just that yeah right yeah but you know what i think um he always said about that first line i mean like that was like his first kind of recording where it felt good right and he kind of burned all his like awkward that he thinks like on cable before that and like that's just when he was like realized oh my god you can have fun on tv but i don't remember what year that was it was before we did the comedy central it was before i met him yeah
Marc:You know, because we taped the same night or the same day.
Marc:Because I remember it wasn't the same show.
Marc:It might have been, but I don't know.
Guest:He'd already done a couple of Letterman's for that.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Okay, so this is 98.
Guest:He'd already done a couple of Letterman's.
Guest:I met him in Toronto.
Guest:We hung out.
Guest:I love you, I love you.
Guest:And then he went back.
Guest:And this is really funny.
Guest:Obviously, I liked him.
Guest:He went back to New York.
Guest:And then two days later, I just happened to be watching TV, and he was on Letterman.
Guest:And he didn't tell me.
Marc:And I was like, that's pretty cool.
Marc:Yeah, so how I took his sort of... It wasn't an aloofness.
Marc:I just thought he was just hypersensitive and extremely kind of anxious.
Marc:I thought it felt like... He looked like a really...
Guest:Yeah, I always wonder when people talk about him, I wonder if people are like, I really knew him or I'm not sure if I did.
Guest:That's what I get from people.
Marc:I don't feel like I knew him much.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When someone dies, there's this kind of legendary thing that goes on.
Guest:And they kind of become...
Guest:heightened of who they are.
Guest:But I just feel like, you know, there's very few people that actually go, yeah, I really, really knew him.
Guest:But, like, Mitch was, like, kind of a... He had those sides to him that was, like, you know, who would hide his face.
Guest:But on some levels, he was one of the most confident people I've ever met in my life who knew what he wanted.
Guest:Like, so it's like, you know...
Marc:It seemed like he knew the life he wanted to live, and once he got some success around what he was doing, it became very clear that it was about him and his pen and his notebook.
Guest:Yeah, and about, you know...
Guest:Like, not a lot of alarm clocks or, you know, you can do your thing.
Guest:You get to, like, I think, you know.
Marc:Like a Native American.
Marc:He just sort of.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You bring your TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, yeah, like, I think those definite things were alluring to him for sure.
Guest:I mean, you know, the fact that he got married, like, or me, you know, marriage, like, wouldn't seem that he would be.
Guest:It all seemed like a sense of freedom, but you end up doing things that ruin your freedom.
Guest:Keep moving.
Guest:He also had the attitude, if I never get booked again, I can still do this.
Guest:I can be on the road.
Guest:I can do shows as much as I want, that kind of thing.
Marc:Right, and the other time we were together before, I don't think you were around, no, I don't think so, is when we worked together in Phoenix, Arizona, and we were sharing a condo, and I decided to buy my first wife an engagement ring.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Like when I decided to marry, when I decided I was going to marry her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:How old would you have been around then?
Marc:I'm trying to think what year that would have been.
Marc:So you're playing the Phoenix Improv?
Marc:Yeah, and I'm headlining.
Marc:He's middling.
Marc:I don't think it was a co-headdling thing.
Marc:I think he was definitely middling.
Marc:It was probably in 92 or 93.
Guest:Yeah, when I met him around 98 is when he was just starting to fully headline himself.
Marc:Well, it was interesting with him, and I think it sort of lasted throughout his career, drugs aside, that before people knew him, it could go either way.
Marc:Either they were going to lock in or they were not.
Marc:And there was no second gear.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I remember even later on, at that point, everyone was coming to see him, and we went and did this show, and it was all these people, and he's like, I don't feel like convincing people anymore.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You're in or not.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How did he propose to you?
Marc:How did that unfold?
Marc:So I imagine the Toronto trip was where you really solidified your connection.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he was up there, and I was like, he's amazing, and I guess he liked me.
Guest:But anyway, he went home, and it's like, you know, at that point, you're not really thinking.
Guest:And then he called me, and he's like, can I come back and hang out with you?
Guest:So he came back a couple weeks later, and we hung out.
Guest:So this is around Halloween 98.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, so we're like hanging out, and it's like...
Marc:But what was the dynamic?
Marc:Because you're like a live wire.
Marc:You kind of like go on and on.
Marc:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:I think in the beginning, he might have thought it was part of the hipstery.
Guest:Were there hipsters then?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's one thing about Mitch is he wasn't kind of like a cynical person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But... But...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Like, I think he just was like thinking, we were like buddies.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I don't know.
Guest:I guess we really connected.
Guest:And then we, so he came back and he was like, well, do you want to come to LA?
Guest:Will you meet me in LA?
Guest:And like, no, like right before the Comedy Central was done, he goes, will you meet me at LAX at,
Guest:on like November this date at this terminal at this time and I was like yeah sure maybe and I did and then that was like we never were apart like I met went and met him and then we um like he did his Comedy Central Presents and then he was like why don't you come on the road for me and open for me and I was like I have seven minutes please don't make me do this it was hell but um how much time you got now
Guest:Eight.
Guest:I've got a really good eight.
Guest:But he would be like, he was, but his attitude was, look at us, we're going to take over the world.
Guest:So that New Year's Eve, so the night, like 89, 99, 98, we were at a party.
Guest:Oh, he was supposed to do Letterman that night and he got bumped.
Guest:And when you get bumped from Letterman, that's when you're booked to do as a comic, and you get bumped, and so that's fine.
Marc:They're just like, no time, reschedule, and they give you your car back to your hotel.
Guest:No, but they gave, because it was New Year's Eve, we got the car for the night.
Guest:So then we went to a party for the guys who made the Super Troopers movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Broken lizard.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But so we were just hanging out there and we were like wasted.
Guest:And he's like, well, we should get married.
Guest:Like, you know, like loving at this huge party.
Guest:And, and, um, oh yeah.
Guest:I was like, yeah, I guess I gotta go back to Canada soon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, no.
Guest:And we just sort of talked to him.
Guest:Like, then he was like, we should get married, but it has to be like Paul McCartney and Linda McCartney.
Guest:We can't be apart.
Guest:And I was like, all right.
Marc:That's what he said.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:I know.
Marc:So where'd you get married?
Guest:We got married in San Francisco.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he just was like, this is it.
Marc:You're never leaving my sight.
Guest:Well, not like in that gross way.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:Just sort of like, yeah, we are one.
Marc:This is this.
Marc:This is our thing.
Marc:We are one.
Guest:I think his things was like, I think this could work.
Guest:You're creative.
Guest:We could do this great thing.
Guest:We can work together.
Marc:And did that happen?
Guest:Sort of, but I have so many looking back like I was an idiot.
Guest:I think I felt weird about opening for him, and I have a lot more self-doubt and weirdness.
Marc:It's a tough place to be because you're sort of saying, well, my comedy is this, and I'm going to live in the shadow of this guy.
Guest:Yeah, and Mitch used to talk about that too.
Guest:He's like, you're not meant to be living with someone stealing the light.
Guest:And I was like, but that's not how I view things.
Guest:I think I just was, I don't know, I think just the way our marriage was working.
Guest:And, you know, he had just broken up with a girlfriend and we didn't tell anybody we were married for six months.
Marc:Where'd you get married, at City Hall?
Guest:City Hall in San Francisco.
Marc:No one was there but you two?
Marc:Who were the witnesses?
Marc:Yeah, no witnesses.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it happened?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Why San Francisco?
Guest:I think we were, oh, we were just working at the punchline.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's a nice city to do that in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, what was the process?
Marc:How did he envision you guys working together?
Guest:Well, I mean, I think, you know, he was... Where he was at that point was, I think he got his style.
Guest:We were going on the road.
Guest:Like, you could tell, like, oh, there was a table over there that knows you.
Guest:And then it was just growing.
Guest:It was kind of growing.
Guest:And he was, like, selling on clubs, like, pretty much at that time.
Guest:And I think he just was, like... You know the road.
Guest:It's, like...
Guest:It's, you know, like in your 20s and, you know, early 20s, you have so much fun and like you're constantly trying to find pussy the whole time.
Guest:And then like, you know, it can be lonely and weird.
Guest:And then to find someone that can work with you that you care about.
Guest:I think that's what he liked.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, part of it, you know what I mean?
Guest:And then we bought a house and stuff.
Marc:In Big Bear.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, we had the same manager for years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what was the process?
Marc:Like, you know, I know you've released.
Marc:What did you release?
Marc:Did you release a posthumous CD?
Guest:Yeah, I released a CD.
Guest:So Mitch put out two CDs, Comedy Central Records.
Guest:And then there was some audio taken from Ontario Improv about maybe a month before he died.
Guest:And it was really hard to put it together because, like,
Guest:I think people listen to CDs and when you're recording a CD, it's all perfect anyway.
Guest:So I was just, I didn't really think about releasing it or having it.
Guest:I just knew I have all this stuff anyway.
Guest:I have tons of video.
Guest:I have a concert film on film that I'm releasing stuff.
Guest:But anyway, at that time I was like, I could do it, but I didn't realize like,
Guest:He still owed a record to Comedy Central, which was weird.
Guest:If I released something.
Marc:You had to give it to them.
Guest:Yeah, which I was like, whatever.
Guest:So that sort of happened.
Guest:And it was probably like he would have done another CD within that year or so.
Marc:And was there a notebooks too?
Guest:No, I didn't release any notebooks.
Guest:I have tons of notebooks.
Marc:What was his process?
Marc:Was he just an impulsive guy who would just write things down and that was the whole process?
Guest:Well, I think at the beginning, so he was a cook and then he got into comedy and then he really got into comedy.
Guest:I think that's when he would sit and go to like...
Guest:He would go to places like he would go right at a brightly lit Target cafeteria.
Guest:There's nothing more awkward than bright lights to him.
Marc:So that's how he made himself uncomfortable?
Guest:Yeah, uncomfortable a little bit.
Guest:Or he really got into writing.
Guest:So I think this is before he really got into his style.
Guest:So he wrote for many years and was on the road for all the years.
Guest:Didn't have any money, but I think he loved it.
Guest:And he said...
Guest:When other people were worrying about money, he never really did.
Guest:He's like, that's going to come.
Guest:It's all about writing the joke.
Guest:So he never really thought of T-shirts.
Guest:So he wrote, wrote.
Guest:And then during the years I knew him, I think he knew how to write for himself.
Guest:And I remember after a while kind of noticing he would write in these almost 12 joke phrases.
Guest:like you wouldn't see anything and you'd have good shows and the show would go really he'd like do a shitty show and I'd be like why didn't you do fucking Dufresne like I'm like do Dufresne and he's like no you can't like you have to kind of like have those shows that are ridiculous you know what I mean the ones where you just tank it yeah but I would like have a heart attack I'd be like
Guest:And he never... And so he would have those shows and then all of a sudden there'd be four new perfectly... They'd kind of be awkward and then they'd be perfect all of a sudden.
Guest:It's almost like he... You know how long?
Guest:His jokes for a Letterman set would be like eight jokes.
Guest:All of a sudden then that would appear and then that would be a part of it and it would sort of move along.
Guest:But because he never went off the road...
Guest:There's so many things.
Guest:He never went off the road, so he never really got rid of stuff to start all over, even when he put out a CD and then people were yelling out his jokes all the time.
Guest:They wanted it.
Guest:It was like a weird thing.
Marc:Well, I think he really took off when...
Marc:When that Comedy Central presents, I think that's what turned it.
Guest:You can tell what happened after that.
Guest:It was subtle, but you could see it.
Guest:We weren't looking on the internet, but you would go to a club and you're like, oh yeah, Houston.
Guest:Oh my God, those people know.
Marc:Yeah, because the kids took to him.
Marc:Because I remember I was there for that set.
Marc:And in the room.
Guest:I remember being there.
Marc:It was a bad set.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And he sat down.
Marc:He was so disappointed.
Marc:Right, when he sat down on the stage, he was like, I'm fucking done.
Guest:And that was like when, like, you know, when, you know, everything always, but like everything meant so much.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I remember him saying like on stage and there's a video of it.
Guest:It's like, this is my not so special, special baby.
Guest:And he was like, he was sad.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, that's it.
Marc:No, but that's what did it though.
Guest:You think?
Marc:No, I think that the kids, primarily the kind of sensitive thinking, I think that the 15 to 25 year olds were like, this dude's out there, but he's endearing and he's got this childlike sensibility.
Marc:And you definitely got the thing he was doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, when they aired it, they definitely sweetened it.
Guest:And it ended up being great.
Guest:And, like, years later, he was like, oh, my God, that was, like, whatever.
Guest:But I remember him being really heartbroken after that.
Marc:But I think that's what really turned it.
Guest:Yeah, you're like, the thing about him and his jokes, he doesn't really explain himself too much.
Guest:He is in his jokes, and he hides himself a little bit.
Guest:But I think the audience always had that weird connection with him, like something tender.
Guest:Right.
Marc:No, I think that's right.
Marc:But what, you know, you say he hides himself.
Marc:But, like, what is it that...
Marc:Like on, you know, on a given day, I mean, if you guys were traveling, I mean, what was some of the things that Mitch was like had to have, you know, outside of anything, you know, to get high with, but like food and that kind of stuff.
Guest:Mexican food.
Guest:Like it was normal.
Guest:Like we would go to Target and buy towels and on the road.
Guest:No, like, okay, this is how like, okay.
Guest:So remember the story?
Guest:Like I met him at the airport.
Yeah.
Guest:This is where it's written.
Guest:And I'm sort of in love, and he's really interesting.
Guest:So we get to the airport, and we go to rent a car, and he already has one of those national Emerald Isle cards.
Guest:And I was like, how do you know?
Guest:So yeah, here is this kind of ethereal thing, like this hippie, sexual.
Guest:And then I'm like, he had all his cards for you to do the Amtrak number and the routes off of it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:He lived out there.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:It was his life.
Guest:So he was like really, yeah.
Guest:I was like, what do you mean?
Guest:He goes, yeah, the Emerald Doll.
Marc:I thought you just hitchhiked.
Marc:Yes, I don't know.
Guest:Do you not pop up?
Guest:But he knew all of it.
Guest:And being married to him, I got to go to Nashville eight times.
Guest:You get to really see America.
Guest:But he instinctively, see, that's the thing.
Guest:Maybe it was the travel agent in him that I was attracted to.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:I figured it out.
Marc:He just figured it out.
Guest:But he'd be like, he'd know where every holiday it was.
Marc:Your daddy issues are travel related.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, oh my God, that's it.
Guest:I knew I was in love when he knew like 1-800-US Airways.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you know what I mean?
Guest:Like he was this person and then you just, it's a real person that you, yeah, hang out with.
Marc:Well, you know,
Marc:I, you know, when I saw you guys, when we co-headlined up there in Seattle.
Guest:Did you do that twice?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:I barely survived the first time.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Was that a festival or is it just a thing?
Guest:Comedy Central did a show for you.
Marc:No, I think it was the first sort of Seattle comedy.
Marc:I don't remember.
Marc:It was an event and there were other events.
Marc:It might have been the first Seattle comedy festival.
Marc:Maybe it was something they didn't do again, but Mitch and I were co-headlining.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And, you know, I was still using drugs at that time.
Marc:And I remember that...
Marc:What?
Marc:No, I'm just listening.
Marc:Look, anything that you want out of this, I'm not gonna- Do I get Final Cut problems?
Marc:Yes, I'm not gonna sandbag you.
Marc:No, I know, I know.
Guest:But you have to understand, like, I'm so excited to be here, but you know, when someone dies, the things that go through your brain just to survive, like, it's- Anyway.
Marc:Well, no, I'm not looking to indict anybody.
Marc:No, no, no, I'm good.
Guest:Okay, so yeah, we were in Seattle, and I remember.
Marc:Well, I remember.
Marc:You don't remember?
Guest:Oh, I totally remember.
Marc:Well, I remember that I didn't have any drugs.
Marc:And you wanted some C. Yeah, I want some blow.
Marc:And Mitch was like, oh, yeah, we're all set.
Marc:And there was just a lot of shit in the room.
Marc:But the one thing that I had no idea the level of his drug use.
Guest:Well, when you say his, it's... Yours too?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Yeah, but you're sitting right here.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:So that's what's hard.
Guest:Like, when you talk about that, it's talking about... But yeah.
Marc:You guys were... You were in deep.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Completely.
Guest:It's something that you can't get out of in it.
Guest:Well, you can, but...
Guest:That like when I was saying earlier like you know his whole life was about not finding a ball and chain Probably like wanting to go on the road being able to buy things when he wants you know He didn't want to wait a year for vacation then you get involved in drug that becomes your complete ball and heroin Yeah, yeah, let's call it H. Okay fine H Well, the interesting thing was like, you know, I not really done a lot of it I remember when he put that out.
Guest:I was furious
Guest:you were mad i was furious yeah why because i think i have i was i was that nervous shameful person you know what i mean like which i think was so detrimental to us like i was more like yeah yeah yeah keep it cool keep it cool yeah which is which in the end was bad well what happened with me is that he pulled out the tar you know and i you know i i've seen it before and i was smoking it
Guest:but it never comes up like who where do you get heroin like up until that happened i was like who where the fuck do you get that shit well you don't know where he got it well no i didn't i do now but leading up to that like you know people think i always thought it was like you know what i mean like before you are introduced to heroin like you're like it is so far off the radar well yeah because all the other drugs are around and socially acceptable pots everywhere right and they even blow a little bit yeah but like heroin was like another class it's a whole different thing and like you know what
Guest:You're never at a party.
Marc:Well, where did you first come in contact with it?
Guest:I'm trying to think.
Marc:Like, when were you introduced to it?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, in New York.
Guest:Mitch had a friend that had some.
Marc:I remember that guy.
Guest:It was kind of like in a hip streak.
Marc:The guy who looked like Chris, who had a goatee?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I remember that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because the thing with me was, and the thing that I started to understand about Mitch was when I was younger and I was working at the comedy store,
Marc:there are people, when you are in the drug world, and it's a known thing, especially if you're a celebrity or somebody who gets on stage, there's always a guy or two that's gonna show up with the shit.
Marc:And you cannot, anywhere you go.
Marc:Yeah, they're the worst, but I could never quite understand what they thought they were doing.
Marc:Did it make them closer?
Guest:Do they know that they're supposed to do that?
Guest:Is that just a weird, there's someone that parks the car?
Guest:How do they know that they're that guy?
Marc:Well, I think they're usually addicts, but I think that it's a proximity to the guy who's going on.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But they're part of it.
Marc:And I think on some level they think they're helping alongside of bringing you down to their level.
Marc:It's a complicated thing.
Guest:It is a complicated thing because they are providing a service.
Guest:Like, I mean, if you're bad and you just want drugs, like you need someone, you're not going to get it from Kmart.
Marc:So Mitch, when you met him, he was already into it a bit.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very like it was in New York and a little bit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The snort and the white stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But very little bit.
Guest:And I remember him telling me and I was like completely.
Guest:What are you talking?
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:So but that guy, he had grown up in Minneapolis with him.
Guest:So it was like he was he was like working in a Lower East Side bar.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:It wasn't like.
Marc:And there was a lot around then.
Guest:Yeah, it was a lot around like Lori's side.
Marc:That China white shit.
Guest:Totally like bartenders, that kind of thing.
Marc:Everyone was sort of snorting it out of the dime bags.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Guest:And at that time when I met Mitch, he was living at the Chelsea Hotel and like him and Jen had broken up and he was kind of just doing his own thing and I met him.
Guest:And so Mitch sort of was involved in that, but he was going on the road and coming back.
Marc:So that was just a kind of like... That's right, he was living at the Chelsea, but he was barely ever in New York.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when I met him and then we got married, we were at the Chelsea Hotel for a while.
Guest:And then, but we were never there.
Guest:And I remember like, I didn't really understand New York.
Guest:I'm like, how are you paying $2,200 a month?
Guest:You're never there.
Guest:But it was perfect.
Guest:But anyway, we ended up moving out there when we got married with this other couple on the Lower East Side and we never went there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You moved in with another couple?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were they dope fiends?
Guest:Sort of, but yeah.
Guest:But it was a really nice apartment.
Guest:But one time we came home and they had all these druggies on the thing and they'd used our quarters and we got really mad.
Marc:They used your what?
Guest:Our quarters from our jar.
Marc:And Rich was like, that's it.
Guest:To buy dope?
Guest:Or whatever, yeah.
Guest:He was like, that's it.
Marc:They took our quarters.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But no, so that was like 99 when he was at the Chelsea, right?
Guest:Yeah, and he was at the Chelsea and going on the road, and we got married in February of 99, and just we were touring.
Marc:Because by the time I saw you in Seattle, I mean- What era was that?
Marc:What year?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In 98?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, it must have been after that.
Marc:98 or 99, because I sobered up in 99.
Marc:It was shortly after that.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Was it the turning point?
Marc:It definitely was.
Guest:For sure, yeah.
Marc:That was, and yeah, because- Did you drink very much?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:I did whatever was necessary.
Marc:But it's just, it's a spiral.
Marc:But I remember, because I was up, we were up for like three days.
Guest:No.
Marc:Two, at least.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Because you know what I remember?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I remember sitting in that room with you guys.
Guest:I remember sitting across from you being like, I'm, yeah.
Marc:yeah but you both were sitting on the bed and my bloody valentine was on and you guys were just rocking your heads and on the bed and i was just sitting there and i'm like i get it i get this and then but like i didn't know like my question is and i you know and you don't have to answer it i mean you guys kept going into the bathroom i mean you know well there was a phase probably i don't know because when did he start when did he start banging it
Guest:Um, maybe a few years later.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Same, you know?
Marc:Yeah, you too.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It was just a matter of time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it's awful.
Guest:It's like... Well, like, because... But you can have to say I don't know.
Marc:Well, no, no, you look great.
Marc:And, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not looking... No, I don't think so.
Guest:No, I'm just talking about life.
Guest:And, you know, as Mitch used to say, like, I think I was so wrapped up in...
Guest:knowing i okay so we're obviously talking about doing drugs and um we were successful but um it was obviously brings you down and i knew i was with someone special and amazing and so i was always in turmoil like guilt shame yeah um because you couldn't get out of it and we couldn't get out of it and we were on the road and it just kept running and
Guest:And, you know, I think Mitch was a more open person.
Guest:He would have been more open to talking, but I was more like, and also I think when you do drugs as a couple, I think just the way Mitch romanticized our relationship too, like us, like it brings you into this us and it's our thing, you know what I mean?
Guest:And, you know, for a while you can do whatever you want and you work really hard and you can buy a house and you can tour.
Yeah.
Marc:Right, you weren't losing everything, but you were locked into it.
Guest:Yeah, and I just, it would make, I was always, like, you know, growing up when I thought of someone who would do a drug like that, it's even hard to say, I don't know why, but, like, you know, to me it was, like, so far beyond.
Guest:Like, I thought you, like, I was telling this story when I was, like,
Marc:You had a lot of shame around it because heroin's a big deal.
Guest:Whenever I get in a relationship, my whole thing is I would never want to hurt someone creative.
Guest:I'm almost to the point of don't ever make me tell you what to do because I don't want to affect any.
Guest:I have a real thing like that.
Guest:Don't make me into a nag.
Guest:All these things that make you into a person you don't want to be, despite even the drugs, like having to get angry and upset.
Marc:Where you're both sort of helpless and, you know, the only person you have to blame in your darkest moments is the person you're with.
Guest:Yeah, or yourself.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:Or, you know, I take on so much guilt and, like, I always take on the, like, I'm the bad person.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I just have that in my head and then to go through something like that with someone, it's, like, awful.
Guest:I hate it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, I think that in his, not even defense, but out of all the drugs, look, rock stars and artists and everything, this is not an unusual story.
Marc:No, of course not.
Guest:And Mitch always thought he knew what he was doing.
Guest:When I say he was one of the most confident people I've ever met, the way he ended up being good at what he does and maybe this talented person was he didn't listen to other people.
Guest:So he took that as like, I know what I'm doing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I don't know what it like as.
Marc:But out of all the drugs.
Marc:Yeah, I do know what your name.
Marc:But I mean, out of all the drugs, I could see how some of Mitch's creativity, like his, you know, heroin really turns off the noise.
Marc:And if anything is going to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If anything's going to give you a sort of infantile appreciation and in your ability to see the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know that, you know, everything becomes very uncluttered.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And I wouldn't want to say... But it's also chaos.
Guest:That's the thing about that drug.
Guest:It's like, you're right.
Guest:If it could just be a normal supply and you're just cruising around... With an IV unit?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Just rolling around your heroin?
Guest:Fine.
Guest:That would be all right.
Guest:But all the things to get it... Because we only had one person get it.
Guest:I had to fly to get it.
Guest:It's like...
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He had to fly cross-country to score.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:Endless.
Marc:And there's a panic because you're sick.
Marc:It's awful.
Marc:I can't even imagine that.
Marc:You're just crawling up the walls.
Guest:It's a fucking... It's awful.
Guest:And, you know, you just can't go to anybody after a show.
Guest:Do you have... You have that.
Guest:Well, yeah, but, like, I mean... Did you ever, like, pause...
Marc:hated it no no yeah i liked pot you know and i you know fortunately you know the heroin experiences i had on the lower east side around that time oh yeah yeah well yeah because it was like 90 when was i there well i was there in 89 through 92 so it was really around right and like i lived right next door to a doorway where they sold really good shit i could tell because there was always a line outside the door like oh my god
Marc:And they had point guys on the street, and I was sober at that time.
Marc:The first time around I got sober, and I kept thinking like, who the fuck would do that?
Marc:Look at these people, they look horrible.
Marc:But eventually I went in there and I bought some.
Guest:Were you scared?
Marc:Yeah, I was scared not of buying it, but I knew I wasn't gonna shoot it.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:But I mean, yeah, buying it to me is the scary... Well, I mean, clearly it was my neighbor and they seemed to have an operation in place.
Marc:But, you know, so I went there and I bought some and I went back to my apartment right next door by myself and I snorted.
Marc:I didn't know how to smoke it.
Marc:No, I knew enough to be careful.
Guest:Because what happened back then is these little... It's a dime bag.
Guest:They come in these little $10 and there's like a tiny little bag.
Marc:It's not like Snorting Coke.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It's a wax paper bindle and usually it was called something like Tango and Cash or Death.
Marc:X Factor?
Marc:Yeah, whatever.
Guest:Yeah, sure, anything.
Guest:Pre-X Factor, X Factor.
Marc:So I remember snorting it and then like, I remember my face getting itchy and then I started to sweat and then I threw up and then I passed out and then I got up and I went, I remember I did it like three or four times there, you know, and I'm so happy.
Guest:So you were kind of like.
Marc:It didn't stick.
Marc:It wasn't my bag.
Marc:I like to go up, not down.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it wasn't appealing to me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I do remember, like, doing one night and going to the comedy cellar and then starting to nod.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was downstairs, you know, and it was a weeknight.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I was sweating and I couldn't keep my head up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, like, I was like, I think I'm sick.
Marc:Whoever was asking me.
Marc:But then I ended up driving Attell and Louie uptown to the improv.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because I had a car.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I was nodding.
Marc:And I feel bad about that.
Marc:Like, I made it.
Marc:And they didn't know what was going on.
Guest:But it was... You're two human lives.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A future... Two future...
Marc:Two huge comedy stars in my car and I'm sweating.
Marc:You could have changed comedy.
Marc:It would have been horrible.
Marc:No one would have known.
Marc:That would have been awful, yeah.
Marc:But nonetheless, I definitely was a drug person.
Guest:It takes work to get in.
Guest:That's another thing about heroin.
Guest:I singularly wouldn't have the ambition.
Guest:You have to have a weird, fucked up ambition to fucking get into that shit.
Guest:Because it takes work.
Guest:But once you're into that point, you don't want... No, but if you're in the beginning and you can deal with it and you can't have it... Everyone starts that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But to me it's like I don't have that kind of get up and go to be a junkie naturally.
Marc:When did you know you guys were getting strung out though?
Marc:Was it around the needle time or before?
Guest:To me, the minute you took it, I knew and enjoyed it and then kept doing it.
Guest:I knew that was not the greatest thing.
Guest:I hate it.
Guest:It's like a weird self-fulfilling prophecy.
Guest:It's a person that you love so much that you know is amazing.
Guest:So you don't even want to use anything about you to change or taint that person.
Guest:And then you're doing something with them that brings you down.
Marc:But in neither one you can stop, basically.
Guest:Oh yeah, we tried to stop lots of times, but it was like, you know what it was?
Guest:Looking back now, we just never got off the road.
Guest:And it would be like, let's get off and deal with this.
Guest:And it would be like, one more month working.
Marc:Were there scenes in hotel rooms where you're both screaming and crying and junk sick and something has to be done?
Guest:Don't be screaming and crying, but not all climbing walls and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, there's times when you run out.
Guest:We gotta stop.
Guest:It's over.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Baby.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:How was it affecting his performances?
Marc:Because I know that towards the end that there were- There was a lot of things that could affect his performances, too.
Guest:I think beyond even that, we were just so exhausted from working.
Guest:The year before he died, we would do, that's when we would go into improvs and do seven shows.
Guest:Three shows Saturday, every week, and then in between that we'd do college.
Guest:It was relentless.
Guest:I was starting to be like, I can't, I'm done.
Guest:Doing that completely healthy would be hard.
Guest:But I was starting to be like, I can't do it anymore.
Marc:But like there is like in that exhaustion, again, not unusual for, you know, for a performer of his caliber and working as much as he was like the story, you know, sadly is is is not, you know, it's not unique.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, of course not.
Marc:And I understand that, you know, and I'm not trying to frame it in either way because, you know, he obviously was a genius and a great comic and people loved him.
Marc:And, you know, I just... I remember talking... You worked too hard and, like, too... Yeah.
Guest:There was no, like, breaking... Stepping back for, like, a few months and going, okay, well, why don't we go to L.A.
Guest:and do sets?
Guest:Like, it was just like... Was rehab ever a question?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:One time we went to one together in... Together?
Marc:You got... Just don't worry about it.
Marc:No, whatever.
Guest:You weren't going to hate me.
Guest:Like, I just already feel like a monster.
Marc:Why?
Guest:Because I do, like...
Marc:It was out of your control.
Marc:I don't think anybody hates you.
Marc:I think, if anything, why do you think people hate you?
Marc:You think people blame you?
Guest:No, you feel like... I remember a couple years after Mitch said, you feel so bad inside that you think outwardly you resemble or represent a creature from the Black Lagoon kind of thing.
Guest:You're so sad and so regretful.
Marc:Oh, just because of the grief?
Guest:Yeah, over a human being.
Guest:Even beyond drugs, the mistakes you made, that's just one element of being in a marriage that your husband dies.
Guest:How old was he though?
Marc:Not at 30.
Marc:What was he?
Guest:He was 37.
Guest:You feel like...
Marc:Did you feel like people were judging you around the death?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Of course I did.
Marc:Because people always want to blame somebody.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, but you're just trying to survive at that point.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:When he died, I was like, I got to get a lobotomy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to get off the dope.
Guest:I did.
Guest:Like two years later, Dave Becky just drove me.
Marc:Did he?
Marc:Oh, you went to a place?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Which is like, you can't even think, and then you're like, no, I thought I was going to have to go and be sick.
Guest:And I'm like, I'll kill myself, like your brain.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:This isn't going to work, but it was great.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:How long were you in, for a month?
Guest:yeah oh good man it was it was kind of neat because in a weird way you even escaped the reality of everything you're just in that world and then like knowing because i knew i had to be strong to even deal with this like i had to like otherwise just to deal with what was going to come at you post the death yeah i knew that was going to happen yeah so i had to like it was kind of like i thought it was going to be the worst thing but it ended up being good yeah yeah because you're like dealing with like grief and sure everything you need strength otherwise you'll lose your mind
Marc:Well, yeah, you were dealing with a lot.
Marc:You were dealing with a hell of a monkey on your back and a dead love of your life.
Guest:And the only person that you can ever talk about it is him.
Guest:The only person that I could go bitch, do you understand, is gone.
Guest:And never mind that you've been attached to the hip for six years.
Guest:It was awful, but it's weird what you can survive, don't you think?
Marc:Oh yeah, people were built for it.
Marc:I know, I know.
Guest:I think your brain grows trees and stuff.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:But I thought I was going to have to get part of my brain cut out.
Marc:Just so you wouldn't feel the pain of it all?
Guest:Or just remember it.
Guest:Just continue on.
Marc:Just get it erased like eternal sunshine.
Guest:Yes, I was like, is that real?
Guest:Can we get it?
Marc:I remember when I saw you guys at the improv once before the incident in Texas, like I knew like just from being there.
Marc:Well, he just looked bad.
Marc:And, you know, he had, you know, like the skin and, you know, his, you know, his was not holding onto his body very well.
Marc:And I think he must have been sort of whatever you guys were doing with that gangrenous leg.
Marc:I don't know what you were doing, but I assume that you were like, it'll go away.
Marc:But I,
Guest:I don't really wanna talk about that.
Marc:Oh, you don't?
Marc:No.
Marc:No, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what I was gonna say was that whenever that shit hit the fan, I remember talking to Becky.
Marc:I remember saying, look, dude, I'll fly out there and try to do the rap on it.
Guest:Right, right, right, right.
Marc:I'll go to the hospital and try to, because when you almost lose a leg, that's a sign that maybe it's time to stop.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:But that wasn't the time, I guess.
Guest:Well, it's more complicated than you think, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, to me that, you know, like, when you get arrested and you go to a hospital or something, to me it was like, the cat's out the bag now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's all out.
Guest:So that was, like, almost, like, in a way, like...
Guest:And we're off the road.
Guest:We're off the fucking road, finally.
Guest:It was a relief, in a way.
Guest:Yeah, we're off the road.
Guest:An external force stopped the momentum.
Guest:I never saw our life changing for a while.
Guest:And I feel like I'm saying our life was this constant hell.
Guest:I mean, we traveled and did amazing things.
Marc:And you did great comedy.
Guest:Yeah, and we bought a motorhome and would camp and did interesting things.
Guest:But it was almost like I could...
Guest:I could face the fact that people would know that I was a bad person for doing this drug or something.
Guest:So, you know what I mean?
Guest:It was like, finally, and it was like a relief.
Marc:What was amazing to me, though, was that the comedy community was very willing to insulate him.
Guest:Okay, so this is what happened.
Guest:We were in Austin.
Guest:We got arrested at the airport, or he did, and then he went in jail, and I hung out, and then he had an injury and went to the hospital.
Guest:Or like an infection.
Guest:And then what happened was, it was just us, and then it started building.
Guest:And I remember him saying, there was all these Austin comments that came in his room, and he was like, those aren't my friends, because they told people.
Guest:I go, but do you understand like when you have information like that, you tell people, he goes, I wouldn't.
Guest:So.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Fuck all y'all.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And people did keep it quiet.
Guest:Are you really?
Marc:Well, I'm saying that.
Guest:Are you kidding?
Marc:Well, I'm saying within.
Guest:His phone is ringing off within 24 hours.
Marc:But within the community.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Guest:It's in the community, but it's not like the internet now.
Guest:Like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like.
Guest:After that, we went on the road with Dave Attell and Louis Black and a writer.
Guest:Journalism came and, of course, knew about it and stuff like that.
Guest:But it wasn't like blogging then.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It wouldn't have been a complete... It would have been Twitter-ish now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I know, but I think that speaks a lot to Mitch, both for better and for worse, is that he was like, these guys ratted me out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always said, it's not writing out you know what it was, but he's like, so.
Marc:It was concern and gossip.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And enough of us know from being involved with drugs ourselves or knowing people that are involved in drugs is that what's talking there is the drugs.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:It's not the person that you love.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:It's the need to continue to do drugs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think anyone would.
Guest:And in him, the need to continue to fucking do comedy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now...
Guest:I don't know what I'm talking about.
Marc:You do absolutely know what you're talking about.
Marc:And I think that what's great about the conversation we're having is that for me, you know, anyone who has been involved with drugs knows that, you know, if two people are involved in it, it's them.
Marc:It's not one person.
Marc:You know, no one's dragging the other person along.
Guest:I'm not a forceful person.
Guest:No.
Marc:No, you loved each other.
Guest:If he didn't love me, I don't know.
Guest:I think when you first meet someone, there's almost a drug released anyway.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:It's sexual.
Guest:Then you start doing something.
Guest:Like you said, going to the bathroom, you're going through a phase where you're going to the bathroom, having sex all the time.
Guest:It's that.
Guest:Doesn't everyone talk about that moment to capture?
Guest:I think in a weird way, Mitch could have romanticized doing a drug like that with someone you love.
Guest:This will be us forever.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And you're like,
Guest:Yeah, but we got to go buy toilet paper.
Guest:We got to get a roof.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And you do.
Marc:We need a sandwich.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And, you know, like his family and stuff, you know, his family could have hated me like just as a part of like, fuck that woman.
Guest:But, you know, Mitch's mom passed away this year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm so close with his dad.
Guest:I'm so happy about that and stuff.
Guest:And they're lovely.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, it's amazing.
Guest:You know, he's my family.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's nice that, you know, that that that blame wasn't laid on anybody.
Guest:No, because like I felt resentful towards them, too, for different reasons.
Guest:Because I think sometimes part of Mitch, the reason he liked to do drugs or something secretive is just let me keep one part of myself away from my mom.
Guest:Like, you know, like he loved his family very much.
Guest:His mother was very over the shoulder worrying.
Guest:And Mitch was always looking for that vibe of life, like who cares?
Guest:So I think that sort of pushed him in that direction.
Guest:But I mean, these are all things I'd create as far as resentment.
Guest:We just love you.
Marc:Well, that one moment that I remember was like, you know, after when we were in Seattle, like, you know, I was... I remember just looking at you like... Yeah, but I remember checking out, and I hadn't slept, and I was waiting online to check out, and I was sweating, and I had to go outside.
Marc:I threw up in a planter.
Marc:And then, like, I got into this cab... Where did you have to fly to?
Marc:Back to New York.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I got into this cab, and I just remember I was pulling out of the driveway of the hotel, and Mitch was walking with Subway sandwiches towards the hotel, and he just looked at me, and I looked at him.
Marc:I was like, bye.
Guest:See you later.
Guest:I can wash this off?
Marc:No, but I remember, because I had a window seat, and I'm like, this will be good, because I don't remember.
Marc:You remember Kim, my first wife?
Marc:No.
Marc:Well, I'm flying home, and I'm supposed- So had you been engaged at that point?
Guest:Back to the story of you in Phoenix.
Guest:You were getting engagement rings.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:I think I was, we were married by that point, by the time I was in Seattle, but she didn't know about my drug use.
Marc:At all?
Marc:Well, she knew I was in recovery.
Marc:I was in and out.
Marc:No, no, no, no, no.
Marc:I mean, I already, I was in rehab in 88.
Marc:So like anything after that.
Guest:Like a real deal, like go in?
Marc:Yeah, for a month after I left LA the first time.
Marc:I was seeing demons and I needed to hear voices.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:You went into cocaine madness.
Marc:Right, cocaine, yeah.
Marc:So, like, I was like, good, man.
Marc:I'll be able to sweep this off on the plane.
Marc:I'll sweat it out.
Marc:And then, like, I remember that flight because there was a woman right next to me who was overweight, taking up too much room, and she had a horrible cough.
Marc:She had a cold.
Marc:So I couldn't get any fucking sleep.
Marc:And I remember just getting home after that weekend with you guys and getting home, and I'm like, I got the flu, you know, and just fucking laying out.
Guest:It's always the flu.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:What else is it going to be?
Guest:I know, I know, I know.
Guest:It's like the perfect flu.
Marc:It's the flu.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, because I remember, okay, so, but here's the thing.
Guest:I also remember being in Seattle.
Guest:There was, there was maybe a little bit of a festival one time.
Guest:No, that was it.
Guest:So that was, okay.
Guest:So yeah.
Guest:And you and Mitch co-headlined and it was at that Paramount Theater and it was good.
Guest:And I remember the first time I met you and Mitch loved, like really loved you.
Guest:Like he was into you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like he loved you.
Guest:He loved Stan Hope.
Guest:He loved To Tell.
Guest:Like he, and I was always like, I don't get that Maren thing.
Guest:I was like, I don't see it.
Guest:But no, he really loved you.
Guest:Like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like, definitely the same time in your book.
Guest:But you wouldn't know with Mitch.
Guest:So I remember he went on stage and I go, I said, hey, I'm Lynn.
Guest:I go, Mitch really loves you.
Guest:And you were like, yeah, I ain't buying what he's saying.
Guest:Like, cut it there.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:I was just so worried that he was going to bury me.
Guest:No, but you were like, no, I think you went up first because you were like, fuck it.
Marc:Oh, no, I did.
Marc:I did.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, you were like, I don't know what shit.
Marc:Just have fun.
Marc:And we were up, though.
Marc:We had already gotten in it.
Guest:But was it that time?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, yeah, we were doing bumps before.
Guest:I remember you did it and you had it.
Guest:And even then, I was like, Mark, I never do this.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Marc:I had it, and then I ran out.
Marc:And then you guys were like, we got this.
Guest:But no, I think he called specifically for you to get you some Coke or something.
Marc:Did he?
Marc:Probably.
Marc:But you had the tar already, and there was some dude hanging around, and I knew it was one of these dudes.
Guest:That's exactly who that guy was, yeah.
Guest:Speaking of, okay, so when we say dude, when you're on the road, I'm trying to explain it to the audience.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:But you're right.
Guest:Here's another thing.
Guest:I sort of want to write a book about comedy because there's always, there's like eight archetypes in the comedy world.
Guest:There's people that,
Guest:you met once and they think they know you from but you don't they don't realize that you have 50 million lives like you're in houston right there's the drug guy and this is like one of the biggest things is the drug guy you end up someone having to hang out with and it's a nightmare and i hated that so much yeah and mitch was always like i'm sorry or like the phone rate you know what i mean like those guys were the worst and they're everywhere and they won't just like like it's not like when you buy a tv here's your television goodbye yeah it's like a little bit of like well we should
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then you got... Like, I wasted so much of my life with those people.
Marc:Oh, yeah, dude.
Marc:Especially with Coke.
Guest:I mean... Oh, the work.
Marc:Coke's worse.
Marc:It's just never-ending.
Marc:But I do remember a guy with a bag who looked like sort of like a Southern California kind of dude.
Guest:Yeah, I think a guy from San Francisco.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And I'm like, that's the dude.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, you got him.
Marc:You can see the dude.
Marc:I've seen it before.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I remember thinking, like, why am I hanging out with idiots in my marriage?
Marc:Drugs.
Guest:That's fucking stupid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, okay, so, because I talked to Matt.
Guest:But, I mean, as far as, like, I liked it, but I never, like, I hate anxiety.
Guest:And I'm always surprised that you do that because you have anxiety.
Marc:Well, it's almost had a Ritalin effect, I think.
Guest:Oh, yeah, like euphoria and then hell.
Marc:Yeah, and then, like, the, but when, like, I talked to Magical, and he was with you guys on a couple of dates towards the end, right?
Guest:Yeah, we were partying with Al a little bit.
Guest:but like you know the motor home ridiculous right right right yeah right and he said that the shows had gotten yeah well that was like okay so he went on a tour with david telling us back it was really good and and you know like we shouldn't have been on the road but it was like mitch was like oh yeah another thing about was going on the road with mitch was it wasn't like it is now where he he tried to do he wanted to do theaters like
Guest:If it was a little bit year and he had his own Facebook and Twitter, we could have just done one show or two shows a week.
Guest:But we were endless and so much work.
Guest:Just a few years.
Guest:And just too much, constantly on stage.
Guest:And that can drive you crazy too.
Guest:So we'd done a tour, and he went on with Loose Back, and all he had to do was 25 minutes, and I was so happy.
Guest:He didn't close the show.
Guest:I remember being like, this is amazing.
Guest:I was like, oh my God, I can see it.
Guest:Because you're doing something the same for so long.
Guest:I'm like, oh my God, life can change.
Guest:I remember being so happy and just healthier.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:And then we just started working so much, and then he went on another tour with this guy, Stephen Lynch.
Guest:And for some reason, they decided that they each would do an hour and 15.
Ugh.
Guest:Which is ridiculous.
Guest:And Stephen Lynch is like playing guitar and stuff.
Guest:So, but then, because Mitch was always like, we always had a little bit of like, you never know what's gonna happen with those two.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You get a reputation, even though we fucking worked hard.
Guest:Anyway, we made lots of people money.
Guest:We made lots of money.
Guest:But, um...
Guest:So at that point, so then Stephen Lynch would be like, will you close this show?
Guest:So then he'd do that.
Marc:So he's got to follow a guitar.
Guest:He's got it for an hour and 15 minutes.
Guest:And then, and they're like sort of different.
Guest:And Stephen's fine, but then all in the really great cities like New York, it would be like, I'm, you know.
Guest:But yeah, but like at that point, I could see Mitch getting like...
Guest:Like, he was, like... At the end of his rope.
Guest:Frustrated, end of his rope.
Guest:That's the time we should... It was just over, yeah.
Guest:And, like, just enough.
Guest:But, like, I have a lot of footage.
Guest:Like, I have footage from all over the years I'm going to make.
Guest:I have footage of you being backstage at Conan, like, 2003 or 2004, and he's filming you.
Marc:I remember.
Marc:You know what I remember about that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's really cute.
Marc:Yeah, at that time, I remember, like...
Marc:because I was sober by then, and I remember they used to give you that big bottle of flavored vodka, and I was like, you want this, Mitch?
Guest:He's like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he always had, like, if he did, like, a show like that, I mean, he'd have, like, a little, those little things for sure.
Guest:Yeah, right, that, not the, like, it wouldn't start before, it was, like, 30 seconds, probably just to the warmth.
Marc:Just so when he walked out there, the warmth would fucking hit him.
Marc:He had the timing down.
Marc:Well, I think that people are curious, and I think there's a cautionary tale, but also there's a deeper respect for Mitch.
Guest:Well, there's been a lot of time, like, it's weird when Mitch first died.
Guest:Like, people within a week are like, hey, you know what you should do?
Guest:You should do this.
Guest:And you feel like, oh, my God, I've got to do everything.
Guest:And then you're like, I don't have to do anything right now.
Marc:How did he end up alone there in New Jersey?
Marc:We were together.
Marc:You were.
Marc:And what happened?
Marc:Because I know that...
Guest:Just, I don't know.
Marc:I remember when it happened, that's when people were like, there was a lot of attempt to kind of quell the drug story.
Marc:Yeah, I don't really know.
Guest:I don't know because...
Guest:It happens to you and then you're in a different reality.
Guest:You're not thinking like someone, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like, I don't know.
Guest:Like, yeah, we were just, we were working in New York and we were in New Jersey.
Guest:And then we were going to go work in Baltimore somewhere after that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just sitting in my gaps.
Yeah.
Guest:I don't, it's like, but you know, I, like I've thought about that too.
Guest:Like, are we allowed to talk about someone's death?
Guest:It's personal.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, you know, even though you're with connected with someone, you still live your own life in your own brain.
Marc:Like, am I allowed to?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It was partly as your, your experience.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that was, that was it.
Marc:It was just, you know, you woke up, he didn't wake up and that was it.
Guest:Well, yeah, sort of and just, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I'm sorry.
Marc:Life changes.
Marc:I'm sorry you went through that.
Guest:And then fucking life goes on, man.
Marc:Yeah, but I, you know, I do.
Marc:I'm joking.
Marc:But I do, I am sorry that you went through that.
Guest:Well, then you're, the rest of your life is like, you're constantly thinking of high concept things like life or death and when some, like,
Guest:if you really love someone, it's really like you're empathizing with them.
Guest:And then when they die, you spend your time trying to relate to them non-existing.
Guest:So there's just all your brain.
Marc:But also you live in his legacy in a way.
Guest:And you don't have a choice, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, do you enjoy that?
Guest:I think in the beginning I was like, oh my God, it was a weird thing.
Guest:You're trying to sew it up really fast.
Guest:First of all, you can't believe someone's got it.
Guest:It doesn't make sense.
Guest:You're like, why is the world still here?
Guest:And then I was sick.
Guest:I came out and then you just sort of do your own thing.
Guest:And I felt right away like, oh my God,
Guest:I can't talk to Mitch.
Guest:What am I going to do?
Guest:Just on your own.
Guest:And you know when you walk in, there's a lot being said about you.
Guest:It's this black sort of thing.
Guest:You walk in a room and you don't want to bring people down.
Guest:So I was always like, hey, I didn't want to make people awkward.
Guest:And then that weird faking it till you make it sort of took over a little bit, a little level.
Guest:So there's all these levels.
Guest:But you're a change forever.
Guest:You don't look at...
Guest:anything ever death is different it's like on some level it frees you like and your survivor skills are like everyone dies who cares and you kind of become really like hardcore a little bit like it's just weird but as far as the legacy I felt like I had to do something right away I was like really scared because I was so used to like well we're working next week because we don't want to like get off the machine you've worked so hard yeah
Guest:But then I was just like, I don't have to do anything.
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Guest:In a big scheme, I don't have to do anything.
Guest:He doesn't get to see it again.
Guest:But then I think I worked on a few things and then just people tell his jokes.
Guest:Kids are telling his jokes to other kids.
Marc:It's amazing that he's timeless.
Marc:It really is.
Guest:I remember him telling me, he goes, I write my jokes to last forever.
Marc:He said that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like, I want to like you, you know, that's why I don't like putting dates on things too much.
Guest:Like I kind of think that's cool.
Guest:And it kind of like there's no machine behind him.
Guest:I get emails from like really cool things and I get emails from people who are shitty, but like you grow a skin and, and now I guess it's a time to maybe.
Guest:talk about it a little bit more, you know what I mean?
Guest:I was always like, if I expose myself, it'll taint to his thing, but his jokes and art, well, is doing its own thing.
Guest:So yeah, I'm gonna make a movie.
Guest:I have some amazing footage.
Marc:No, that's great.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:And I don't think that by talking candidly about it, it diminishes anything.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:And, you know, I certainly wanted to, you know, I was nervous about talking to you because I didn't want you to be in a position that you would find uncomfortable.
Marc:And, you know, I love the guy and I think he did an amazing thing.
Guest:And he, you know, he's like, I'm the one that, I have more self-hatred just as a natural human being than he did.
Guest:And he'd be like, it just doesn't mean we're bad people.
Guest:Like, you know, just because we got fucked up, you know what I mean?
Guest:Or made mistakes.
Guest:And he always had that.
Guest:But I think I was always like, yeah, it means we're bad.
Guest:And that's like almost, I almost regret like,
Guest:Having that attitude with him more than doing drugs with him.
Guest:Being more like, yeah, this means we're bad.
Marc:We're so bad and wrong.
Guest:Or being disappointed in him.
Guest:I think that's sometimes more damaging.
Marc:Well, look, you seem to be okay.
Guest:I remember getting married and saying, don't make me into someone like a mother.
Guest:Don't do things where I have to.
Guest:I hate that.
Guest:Cut to.
Guest:Put it down.
Guest:Put the heroin down.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, you know, you seem okay, and I'm glad.
Marc:Yeah, I think I'm okay.
Marc:And I'm glad that you were able to talk about this.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And I think that's an amazing thing that, you know, that his comedy is timeless and that he was aware of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because that's such a rare thing.
Guest:Well, you look back now a little bit.
Guest:Like, he wasn't, like... Like, it's weird hard to explain, like, you know, because the story is he's a comedian who died with drugs, tragedy, so immediately the comedy thing.
Guest:Like, there's a different thing, too.
Guest:Like, he...
Guest:He wasn't a really dark person or deathy.
Guest:I probably have more of that kind of mentality.
Guest:But he kind of filmed our life a little bit.
Guest:There's already a bit of a documentary I think he was making.
Marc:And you've got all that stuff?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I look forward to seeing it.
Marc:Thanks for talking, Lynn.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Okay, I want to say I really appreciate Lynn coming by, and that was a great talk.
Marc:It sort of processed a lot of things for me, and I hope for you as well, if you love Mitch Hedberg.
Marc:As always, please go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:If you want anything WTF-related, you can get on the mailing list.
Marc:You can check out the episode guide.
Marc:You can order some merch.
Marc:You can get the app.
Marc:You can upgrade to the premium app.
Marc:You can kick in a few shekels.
Marc:You can leave some comments.
Marc:You can do whatever you want.
Marc:You can leave comments except you.
Marc:You know who you are, you dick.
Marc:Just stop it.
Marc:Justcoffee.coop, available at wtfpod.com.
Marc:What else do I got to tell you?
Marc:Again, I'm thrilled about my book and I'm excited about my TV show.
Marc:Am I?
Marc:Yes, of course you are.
Marc:Don't talk to yourself.
Marc:IFC, May 3rd.
Marc:It's going to happen.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Alright, I think I feel good.
Marc:I don't know... Boomer lives!
you