Episode 349 - Michael Keaton

Episode 349 • Released January 2, 2013 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckadelics and what the fuckaholics it is the new year three days in

00:00:20Marc:It's going okay.

00:00:21Marc:Happy?

00:00:22Marc:I don't know.

00:00:23Marc:But it's going okay.

00:00:24Marc:I'm not complaining.

00:00:26Marc:We made it another year.

00:00:27Marc:How is everyone?

00:00:28Marc:I am Marc Maron.

00:00:29Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:31Marc:I'm thrilled to have Michael Keaton in conversation here with me today.

00:00:36Marc:And I've got a pretty...

00:00:37Marc:A pretty interesting story in terms of of how this show works, about how WTF works, how the booking works and what really happens here.

00:00:47Marc:But before I get into that, let me just say that the out of the garage tour, all the dates are up for presale throughout today.

00:00:55Marc:That being one three.

00:00:57Marc:January 3rd, up till 10 p.m.

00:01:00Marc:with the password bazooka.

00:01:02Marc:You can go to ticketmaster.com or livenation.com.

00:01:05Marc:Look me up there and see if I'm going to be near you and pick up a ticket with that code.

00:01:11Marc:The pre-sale for San Francisco is January 9th at 10 a.m.

00:01:16Marc:through the 10th at 10 p.m.

00:01:18Marc:And also, quickly, tomorrow, tomorrow night, 4th through the 6th, I'll be at the Improv in Fort Lauderdale at the Hard Rock.

00:01:24Marc:Come down.

00:01:25Marc:Hang out with me and my mommy.

00:01:28Marc:All right.

00:01:28Marc:Well, look, the Michael Keaton thing is a very interesting thing because, you know, everybody loves Michael Keaton.

00:01:34Marc:We don't get to hear from Michael Keaton that often.

00:01:36Marc:He was the best Batman.

00:01:38Marc:He was he was really the biggest comedy star when I was younger.

00:01:42Marc:And also, and he's one of the few guys that was hilarious, but was also able to do dramatic roles.

00:01:49Marc:And the way that the interview came about was interesting because it was sort of a year in the making.

00:01:55Marc:I'm going to I'm going to walk you through this.

00:01:58Marc:Because I'm ecstatic that we hung out.

00:02:02Marc:He's a great guy.

00:02:03Marc:And it's very interesting.

00:02:06Marc:Oh, here's what happens.

00:02:07Marc:So a year ago, last January 2012, I go to Florida to visit my mother and go on vacation.

00:02:14Marc:That's what I'm doing.

00:02:15Marc:All right.

00:02:16Marc:I'm with Jessica.

00:02:17Marc:We're at the Fort Lauderdale Airport.

00:02:18Marc:We had just landed in Florida.

00:02:20Marc:We're at the baggage claim.

00:02:21Marc:I see a dude with his family.

00:02:24Marc:Looks like it might be Michael Keaton.

00:02:26Marc:But I have grown to learn.

00:02:28Marc:I really don't approach people.

00:02:31Marc:It doesn't feel right sometimes.

00:02:34Marc:And I just kind of hung out.

00:02:36Marc:And I was like, wow, that's who he is now.

00:02:38Marc:That's how he looks.

00:02:39Marc:That's Michael Keaton.

00:02:40Marc:Looks pretty good.

00:02:41Marc:I'm thinking to myself, and I say to Jessica, is that Michael Keaton?

00:02:43Marc:She's like, oh, yeah, it is.

00:02:45Marc:I'm like, okay, all right, let's keep it together.

00:02:47Marc:So I don't approach him, and I just stand there at the baggage claim, and I look at him, and he looks at me for a quick second, and he comes up to me and goes, I know you, right?

00:02:55Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.

00:02:57Marc:I'm a comedian.

00:02:59Marc:He's like, oh, yeah, I saw you on real time with Bill Maher.

00:03:01Marc:I'm like, oh, he's like, you're great.

00:03:03Marc:You're great.

00:03:03Marc:And I'm like, wow, thank you.

00:03:04Marc:Thank you very much.

00:03:06Marc:So now I'm in that situation where I'm like, I got a podcast, you know?

00:03:10Marc:So I said, well, you know, I actually do a podcast.

00:03:13Marc:I told him that, and I said, would you be interested in maybe doing it?

00:03:17Marc:But before that, I said, where are you going?

00:03:19Marc:He was going scuba diving and fishing, whatever he was going to do.

00:03:21Marc:We had some small talk, and I asked him if he wanted to do the podcast.

00:03:23Marc:He goes, yeah, yeah.

00:03:25Marc:And I go, well, how do I get in touch with you?

00:03:26Marc:That's always the awkward part.

00:03:27Marc:It's like, because these are big celebrities, and I don't want to irritate them.

00:03:30Marc:And I want them to trust me with their their emails.

00:03:33Marc:I'm like, how do I get in touch with you?

00:03:34Marc:And then he tells me his email and then he wanders off with his family.

00:03:38Marc:He's like, OK, OK.

00:03:39Marc:So now I got to remember this email.

00:03:40Marc:And I'm like, I got to write.

00:03:41Marc:I got to write down.

00:03:42Marc:I got to write down.

00:03:43Marc:So I write it down.

00:03:44Marc:All right.

00:03:45Marc:So this is, you know, somewhere in the first week of January 2012.

00:03:49Marc:And I'm like, Michael Keaton, you know, there was that mixture of like, you knew me.

00:03:53Marc:He recognized me.

00:03:55Marc:And I can't believe I'm going to maybe we can get him on the podcast.

00:03:58Marc:On January 6th, I'm assuming I probably like, you know, like when you date somebody or when you meet somebody, you don't want to call too fast.

00:04:05Marc:I imagine I maybe waited three hours.

00:04:08Marc:I wrote him an email.

00:04:09Marc:It said, Michael, hope you had a good vacation.

00:04:11Marc:Mine was fine.

00:04:12Marc:I said, I shouldn't have spent the last few days at my mother's.

00:04:15Marc:It negated the whole purpose.

00:04:16Marc:Just wanted to gauge your interest in doing a WTF interview.

00:04:19Marc:Let me know if you want to try to schedule one and when would be a good time.

00:04:23Marc:Good meeting you.

00:04:23Marc:Thanks, Maren.

00:04:25Marc:Now, you got to understand, this is how I book the show.

00:04:27Marc:I have a part time assistant, Sam, who helps me out.

00:04:31Marc:But, you know, my booking process is really, you know, by I know a guy who knows a guy and some publicists now, you know, contact me.

00:04:40Marc:But it's really me reaching out.

00:04:41Marc:You know, there are other shows like Corolla's got a booking infrastructure.

00:04:46Marc:You know, Hardwick's got bookers.

00:04:47Marc:You know, they do more shows than me.

00:04:49Marc:Daily shows three times a week, whatever.

00:04:51Marc:But I'm still doing this.

00:04:53Marc:But this one was interesting because it took a year.

00:04:56Marc:It took a year.

00:04:58Marc:So after I wrote him that email, Michael, he writes back interested working on a movie in Canada.

00:05:03Marc:We'll be here a while back in L.A.

00:05:05Marc:briefly.

00:05:06Marc:Then gone for a bit again.

00:05:07Marc:Stay in touch.

00:05:07Marc:And let's figure a time.

00:05:08Marc:Where do you do the show?

00:05:09Marc:I don't always live in L.A.

00:05:10Marc:Good to meet you, MK.

00:05:12Marc:That was the same day I sent him the email.

00:05:14Marc:And then for some reason, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I don't I don't get back to him till February 19th.

00:05:22Marc:So that's over a month later.

00:05:24Marc:Hey, man, Marin here checking back in.

00:05:25Marc:You around anytime soon?

00:05:27Marc:Thanks.

00:05:27Marc:Mr. Mom is on TV right now.

00:05:29Marc:And then the same day he goes, yep, let's talk this week.

00:05:33Marc:And then on the same day, this is February 19th, 2012.

00:05:37Marc:How's Wednesday?

00:05:38Marc:Sometime between 10 and 2.

00:05:39Marc:And then on the same day, February 19th, Michael writes, by the way, I was somewhere and a TV was on, but no volume and you were doing stand up.

00:05:46Marc:Still looked pretty funny.

00:05:48Marc:What was it?

00:05:48Marc:Can I see some of that and anything else you want me to see as a frame of reference?

00:05:52Marc:If you feel it's relevant, your call.

00:05:53Marc:And then we go back.

00:05:54Marc:It's just crazy because there are these flurries of activity.

00:05:57Marc:So the next day I'm like, I have an appointment at 430 tomorrow.

00:05:59Marc:I can't cancel it.

00:06:00Marc:I'll keep trying.

00:06:01Marc:I'll hit you back in March.

00:06:04Marc:And that was 2-21-12.

00:06:06Marc:So I'm watching Batman, the new one, whatever it was, the newest one with Christian Bale.

00:06:13Marc:And I'm like, fuck.

00:06:15Marc:You know, Jessica says, did you ever get back in touch with Michael Keaton?

00:06:18Marc:I'm like, no.

00:06:18Marc:So I go back.

00:06:19Marc:This is on the 27th of December, just a few days ago.

00:06:23Marc:And I write to Michael Keaton.

00:06:24Marc:Hey, man, happy holidays.

00:06:26Marc:I'd still like to talk to you at some point.

00:06:28Marc:Can that happen?

00:06:28Marc:Thanks, Marc Maron.

00:06:30Marc:And then the next day he writes back, OK, this is weird.

00:06:33Marc:Just thinking about this yesterday.

00:06:35Marc:Swear.

00:06:35Marc:Let me see if I'm doing anything for the next couple of days.

00:06:37Marc:Was pondering going up north to visit a friend.

00:06:40Marc:And right after that, I write, OK, man, I'll be on call here.

00:06:43Marc:I'm around.

00:06:43Marc:I can work around you if you want to do it.

00:06:45Marc:Thanks, Marin.

00:06:46Marc:And then I get a weird one from him.

00:06:47Marc:It just says, remind me to do this.

00:06:49Marc:So then I write back, when were you thinking?

00:06:52Marc:And then he writes back, that was supposed to go right to my assistant, but this is better.

00:06:55Marc:How about tomorrow?

00:06:56Marc:And I write back, great, what time?

00:06:58Marc:I'm in Highland Park.

00:06:59Marc:The talk should run about an hour or so.

00:07:00Marc:And then he writes back, nothing.

00:07:03Marc:And then the next day comes when we're supposed to do the show.

00:07:05Marc:I'm like, we doing this or no?

00:07:07Marc:And then he writes back, yes, H Park near Pasadena.

00:07:10Marc:Do you do it at your house studio?

00:07:12Marc:Keep today open.

00:07:13Marc:Let me know.

00:07:13Marc:And I write back, yes.

00:07:15Marc:And I give him my address, house 330.

00:07:17Marc:And then he writes back, probably later, waiting to hear back from someone.

00:07:20Marc:So this is the day of this thing that's supposed to happen.

00:07:22Marc:I'm just hanging out.

00:07:24Marc:And I'm like, oh, God, is this going to happen?

00:07:26Marc:And then bam, like later that afternoon on the 29th, he's like, I'm headed to you in 10 minutes coming from Santa Monica.

00:07:32Marc:You're near Pasadena.

00:07:34Marc:And then he shows up and he just comes in.

00:07:36Marc:He's got that intensity where, you know, he's Michael Keaton.

00:07:39Marc:He's looking at my shit and we just go right into it.

00:07:41Marc:And we just go right into the conversation you're about to hear.

00:07:44Marc:And then a couple of days later, the next day after we talked, I said, hey, man, thanks for doing it.

00:07:50Marc:And then I wanted to put this in here because he wanted me to, but I didn't really want to fuck with the conversation too much.

00:07:58Marc:He goes, thanks.

00:07:58Marc:Enjoyed it.

00:07:59Marc:Just realized old Irish guys took the pledge, not the oath when they stopped drinking.

00:08:05Marc:Important difference.

00:08:07Marc:And I said, I can clarify that in the intro, which I'm doing right now, or we can take it out if you want.

00:08:11Marc:And he wrote back, either way, both.

00:08:14Marc:And that's where we're at.

00:08:17Marc:To me, it was just a great example of the intensity.

00:08:21Marc:Sometimes things just have to happen now.

00:08:24Marc:I'm coming over now.

00:08:26Marc:And I love interviews like that.

00:08:27Marc:There have been a couple in the course of the show that have been like that.

00:08:32Marc:Now let's talk to the...

00:08:33Marc:to the best in the original movie Batman, Michael Keaton.

00:08:44Guest:So are you as bad as I am about having a whole bunch of books around that you go, yeah, yeah, I got to get to that book?

00:08:50Guest:Oh, fuck yeah, man.

00:08:51Marc:It's terrible, isn't it?

00:08:52Marc:I mean, they're just comforting.

00:08:54Marc:I don't know.

00:08:54Marc:I can't read all that, but I like knowing they're there.

00:08:59Guest:Me too, and I love books, and I'm a reader, but what happens is you get way, way, way behind.

00:09:05Guest:Actually, what I did, I've moved them...

00:09:07Guest:to another room because i get i get so i get anxious and i get guilty and i think oh man they're just yelling at you what are we doing yeah then they get hostile hey fuck you

00:09:22Marc:i got a whole shelf full of fuck you over there there are political books you know years ago i was uh i was the morning guy on air america so i used to get all these political books yeah and at that time i'm like this the answers are in here they all the bush stuff everything is in here and i can't tell you that was 2004 now i have all those books and they're useless

00:09:43Marc:They're fucking... They don't even last... They're not... You bring them to a used place.

00:09:48Marc:You're like, you want these books?

00:09:49Marc:They're like, I know Bush has been gone for years.

00:09:51Marc:I don't think anyone gives a fuck about this shit.

00:09:53Marc:I like that you thought the answers are in here.

00:09:56Marc:That's why I have them.

00:09:57Guest:They've got to be in there, right?

00:09:58Guest:There's some pretty important thinkers on these shelves.

00:10:01Guest:So when people get them now, they go, no, no, no, no, no.

00:10:04Guest:We don't even like anybody anymore.

00:10:06Marc:Yeah, no, I...

00:10:06Marc:but like you know i got i got uh you know there's philosophers over there there's film books there's all kinds of shit in here yeah what if you came in one day and i was just sitting in here reading shit i would be like wow he really doesn't know how to get home does he he hadn't left no i i like it i you know sometimes i lend people books but i yeah but recently i don't know about you i don't know what size of life you're living but like i sometimes fantasize it being empty and like just the piece of that but i have not been able to

00:10:35Marc:Like there is shit I can let go of here.

00:10:38Marc:Don't you have shit like books right now?

00:10:39Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:40Marc:It would be a burden off your back.

00:10:41Guest:How about this?

00:10:42Guest:How about when you look at a book and you go, what the fuck was I thinking?

00:10:46Guest:Because it has nothing to do with anything.

00:10:48Guest:But that day for like that 10 minutes.

00:10:50Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:10:51Guest:You thought, oh, I got to have that.

00:10:52Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:10:53Marc:It's all the answers are in there.

00:10:54Marc:This is everything I need.

00:10:58Marc:Any book that I buy with that much excitement.

00:11:00Guest:Yeah.

00:11:01Marc:Someone told me to buy, I don't know where the hell it is, a smart guy told me to buy this novel, this Russian novel.

00:11:08Marc:It's an important Russian novel.

00:11:11Marc:It's like 500 pages.

00:11:12Marc:He's like, oh, this is great.

00:11:13Marc:And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get that.

00:11:15Marc:And I'm like, he doesn't realize that I can't get through two pages of this.

00:11:18Marc:I can't.

00:11:18Guest:i'm not even well are you but but you're you're clearly a really curious person so yeah you you it's not like you can't you've probably got i don't know i guess this is a question are you um are you somebody who goes you know i really want to do this but my brain is jumping over into so many areas right now that i got to find the spot to go

00:11:42Guest:I'm going to do it.

00:11:43Guest:Yeah, I'm going to do it.

00:11:43Guest:Because once you get lost in books, there's really nothing better than that.

00:11:46Marc:It's great.

00:11:47Marc:But that's what I've sort of let myself off the hook.

00:11:49Marc:Like if I read the first 10 pages- I'm not going to let you off the hook, by the way.

00:11:51Marc:Come on, man.

00:11:52Marc:No, no, it's bullshit.

00:11:52Marc:I didn't know this was going to be hard.

00:11:55Marc:You're going to break me over the coals here.

00:11:57Marc:No, if I lock in, I'm in and I'll read it.

00:11:59Guest:Yes.

00:12:00Marc:But sometimes you try and you try and it just ain't going to happen.

00:12:03Marc:What are you going to do?

00:12:04Marc:We're not in college.

00:12:05Marc:Are you going to sit there and underline and force yourself?

00:12:07Guest:And it's getting worse because there's so many distractions now.

00:12:12Guest:You know, I'm looking at that... You have the original Alcoholics Anonymous book, right?

00:12:16Guest:Yeah, that's a big book.

00:12:19Guest:It's an amazing... When you think about it, I mean, that's an amazing thing he did.

00:12:25Marc:It's unbelievable.

00:12:26Marc:And I'm a sober guy, though, so I mean, you know, I know that shit.

00:12:30Marc:But, like, when people talk about it, they don't realize the philosophy of it and the practicality of it is fucking mind-blowing.

00:12:35Guest:And how did he hit it?

00:12:37Guest:You know, because you go... It's kind of like baseball.

00:12:39Guest:You think about baseball and you think...

00:12:41Guest:Well, how did... It's really changed so little.

00:12:46Guest:There's almost no changes.

00:12:47Marc:They won't let him.

00:12:48Marc:Are you kidding?

00:12:48Marc:If anyone was to change that book, you'd have a bunch of very pious, angry alcoholics.

00:12:52Marc:Oh, dear.

00:12:53Marc:It's like the Constitution.

00:12:54Marc:It would take some serious meetings and amendments.

00:12:57Marc:Yeah, but he kind of hit it.

00:12:58Guest:I don't know.

00:12:58Guest:Were there like 100 drafts?

00:13:00Guest:I don't think so.

00:13:01Guest:I think the guy went, no, I think this is it.

00:13:03Guest:And it's not like a new one came out and said, well, I want to adjust to... It's like the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.

00:13:10Guest:Right.

00:13:10Guest:People go, no, you can't.

00:13:11Guest:which I really don't understand, frankly.

00:13:14Guest:I go, well, you know.

00:13:15Marc:Things change.

00:13:16Guest:Things change.

00:13:17Guest:We're not living in this world anymore.

00:13:18Guest:It's not the end of the world if you go, let's slide this a little, or let's just say, we didn't know there were going to be these kind of weapons.

00:13:25Marc:Right, yeah, yeah.

00:13:26Marc:Maybe women should be able to vote.

00:13:28Marc:We're at that point now.

00:13:29Marc:Yeah.

00:13:30Marc:That's not really that much.

00:13:31Marc:I don't think everyone needs a semi-automatic weapon.

00:13:33Marc:Maybe I'm wrong, but machine guns aren't practical for some people, apparently.

00:13:37Marc:Maybe we can put something in there that says that.

00:13:39Marc:It doesn't seem crazy to me.

00:13:41Marc:People can have guns, not just bazookas and semi-automatics.

00:13:44Marc:Well, with Alcoholics Anonymous, they even got the newer edition took out.

00:13:49Marc:There's the original first, I think, what is it, 164 pages or something?

00:13:53Marc:And then there's the stories afterwards.

00:13:55Marc:But they don't fuck with the original text.

00:13:57Marc:But they've added some stories, and they've taken one or two out, and that was sort of a big deal.

00:14:03Marc:Did you read it when you did Clean and Sober?

00:14:05Guest:Yeah, that's how I got to know it.

00:14:06Guest:And as I was reading it, I thought, and for a while, I kept it around because I thought, this is crazy.

00:14:13Guest:This works for everybody.

00:14:14Guest:I don't care if you're drinking or not drinking or doing dope or whatever you're doing.

00:14:18Guest:This is so practical and logical that I was kind of knocked out by it.

00:14:22Marc:Yeah, well, the inventory thing is pretty fascinating.

00:14:25Marc:Yeah.

00:14:25Marc:You know, like, I'm pissed off at this guy for this reason, and it affects this part of my life, and my part of it is this.

00:14:32Marc:If you do that thing, and he pulled that from just a stock inventory, if you do that thing, you can really get a pretty thorough diagram of exactly what kind of asshole you are.

00:14:41Marc:Yeah.

00:14:41Marc:Or what your character defects are.

00:14:43Marc:I mean, you know, I've got almost 13 years, so I mean, I'm not in it every day, but it's definitely a life changer.

00:14:49Marc:Yeah.

00:14:50Marc:But when you did that movie, I remember seeing that movie.

00:14:52Marc:I mean, that was a fucking heavy movie.

00:14:54Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:14:55Marc:I mean, and you really fucking got in it.

00:14:56Marc:I haven't seen a movie since then that really captures that experience.

00:15:01Marc:Yeah.

00:15:02Marc:Waking up with a dead girl and having to change your life.

00:15:04Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:05Marc:That's a great opening, by the way.

00:15:07Marc:That's crazy.

00:15:08Marc:Yeah.

00:15:08Marc:And not unusual, really.

00:15:10Marc:Similar stories.

00:15:11Marc:Yeah.

00:15:11Marc:Where things just got out of control.

00:15:13Marc:I mean, that was one of your first real serious parts, wasn't it?

00:15:16Guest:Yeah.

00:15:17Guest:I had done, let me think.

00:15:19Guest:because i had done some things actually on television early on before you know and then everything just kind of sat there for a while nothing really happened yeah uh but i would say yeah that was anything of note that was this that was that was it i mean right after beetlejuice you did it yeah i guess i can't remember

00:15:37Guest:Yeah.

00:15:37Guest:Is it all getting foggy?

00:15:39Guest:Um, yeah, most, I mean, I can sit down and if you give me a minute, I'll figure it out, but I wasn't thinking about it.

00:15:46Guest:Yeah.

00:15:46Guest:I would say that's probably when it was, but it was a really, really great experience because you don't have a choice, but to, uh, I don't think, you know, you just gotta, you gotta go all the way down there, you know, or in there or whatever it is.

00:16:00Guest:And it was really a great experience.

00:16:01Guest:Actually, it was really, uh, you know, fully committed to understand the, the plight of someone.

00:16:07Guest:out you know addicted yeah and you know the first thing that hit me was um you know some things you do research for and some things you don't do research for or some things you do a little research nothing i don't think there's any one way to do anything necessarily but the thing that hit me immediately was

00:16:25Guest:I think almost everyone has at least a version of an addiction, you know, or something.

00:16:31Guest:Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:16:32Guest:Yeah.

00:16:33Guest:And I just, honestly, the thing that hit me was I just got lucky.

00:16:36Guest:Yeah.

00:16:37Guest:I mean, it's a stroke of luck, you know.

00:16:38Guest:I mean, if you go back into my family, it's an...

00:16:40Guest:areas of my family you know and it i mean there's no reason why it's just like a stroke of luck i guess the genetic dice rolled in your favor totally has nothing to and also the most interesting charming funny people i mean yeah kidding me right who drunks oh yeah and drunks and in dopers and yeah oh yeah but mostly drunks drunks for some reason guys who yeah yeah the dopers might steal your money but it's still a good story yeah

00:17:06Marc:And tremendous liars.

00:17:08Marc:Oh, yeah, the best.

00:17:09Marc:The best liars.

00:17:10Guest:Just spin the yarn, man.

00:17:11Guest:Do you add uncles and shit or what?

00:17:13Guest:Yeah, many, many.

00:17:14Guest:In fact, I just got, when I was home, you know, my dad was, he was Scottish and what something else may be, or Scottish, and my mom was Irish and maybe a little English.

00:17:26Guest:So, you know, we got all that coming our way.

00:17:28Guest:But I was just looking at this book.

00:17:30Guest:I was home for the holidays back in Pittsburgh, where I'm from, and my brother laid this book.

00:17:35Guest:A little tiny paperback, which is the history of where my mother grew up and right outside of Pittsburgh, almost in Pittsburgh.

00:17:46Guest:Yeah.

00:17:47Guest:And where we spent a lot of our time.

00:17:50Guest:You know, we'd go down there and get the Sunday paper on Saturday night or my mom would shop down there.

00:17:56Guest:Yeah.

00:17:56Guest:you know my brothers went to grade school for a while down there and it was amazing to see this stuff and and the thing that always stands out for me is there's an old hotel there it's very tough you know it was always you know it was an immigrant city it was you know it was a railroad and mill town and

00:18:14Guest:My mom grew up on this hill like this, you know, like almost, you know, like almost about a 45 grand.

00:18:20Guest:Like large kind of brownstone-y.

00:18:22Marc:Yeah, just stacked next to one another.

00:18:24Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:25Guest:And, you know, a bunch of kids.

00:18:26Guest:And there's a picture of the Commonwealth Hotel.

00:18:31Guest:where my grandfather, her dad, who was a rager, took the oath.

00:18:38Guest:You know, in Ireland, you know, you take the oath.

00:18:41Guest:Well, in America, you take the oath, I guess.

00:18:43Guest:Which oath?

00:18:43Guest:The oath saying, that's it, I'm off.

00:18:45Guest:I ain't drinking anymore.

00:18:47Guest:And it has to do with the Catholic Church.

00:18:50Guest:So it's like once you, you know, that's so deep in that culture.

00:18:53Guest:I didn't even know about this.

00:18:54Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:18:55Guest:You take the oath.

00:18:56Guest:And the oath is you say to God, I'm done for good this time.

00:18:59Guest:And then you break it like seven, eight times.

00:19:00Guest:With the drink.

00:19:01Guest:I'm done with the drink.

00:19:02Guest:It's a classic Irish thing because it's connected to the church and it's deep.

00:19:06Guest:And that way they got you because they say, okay, fucker.

00:19:10Guest:You didn't say it to me.

00:19:12Guest:You said it to God.

00:19:12Guest:Now you're in.

00:19:14Guest:And it took.

00:19:16Guest:I mean, he was apparently a bad drunk.

00:19:19Guest:Just an abusive ass.

00:19:20Guest:Yes, he was loud, but also, you know, like we're talking, like this wonderful guy too, really charming.

00:19:26Guest:You remember him?

00:19:27Guest:No, not at all.

00:19:28Guest:He was, fortunately, but he, you know, so you got all that stuff going back.

00:19:34Guest:So your mother had a firsthand experience of it anyways.

00:19:37Guest:Yeah, and she never drank at all.

00:19:38Guest:And so, thank God, you know, she never drank.

00:19:40Marc:that's the interesting thing about the children of alcoholics either they don't touch it and they become very sort of like controlling a little bit you know like managing type of personalities because you're dealing with this parent in the house they're like what can i do can't do anything can't do anything right how many how many brothers and sisters do i have yeah uh six so big that was big yeah yeah there were nine actually but my mom lost two so so yeah there were there were seven i'm the i'm the youngest oh my god yeah

00:20:06Marc:I've always wondered about people who are the youngest, because that means the age difference between you and your oldest sibling is like what?

00:20:16Marc:Let me think, 20 years maybe?

00:20:19Guest:So did you have to sort of watch everyone kind of move on?

00:20:21Guest:Well, you're the first one who's ever asked this.

00:20:23Guest:This is really interesting that you asked this, because that hit me at about age.

00:20:28Guest:I don't know what.

00:20:29Guest:I went...

00:20:29Guest:Oh, I get it.

00:20:30Guest:They're all going to be gone.

00:20:32Guest:You know, I did the math real quick on.

00:20:34Guest:Oh, fuck.

00:20:35Guest:Yes.

00:20:36Guest:But yes, that's what you do.

00:20:37Guest:But but we're all close.

00:20:38Guest:We all stayed really, really close.

00:20:40Guest:It's shocking.

00:20:41Guest:Yeah.

00:20:41Marc:So there wasn't a lot of it must have been a little heartbreaking to watch another brother or sister kind of.

00:20:46Guest:all right yeah yeah that was that was especially me you know yeah i'm like you know i take stuff hard so so uh uh but i think it builds up a kind of um you get a little tough because yeah i did i they they would get older but they were always kind of around everybody would circulate back and then they'd go have like 19 kids so what how catholic was your family my mom was catholic and very very catholic you know mass every morning were you an altar boy yeah as an altar boy i like being an altar boy

00:21:13Guest:I liked, actually, my Catholic upbringing.

00:21:15Guest:I think it was really good for me.

00:21:16Guest:In what way?

00:21:18Guest:But my dad was not, which was really cool.

00:21:20Guest:This was the thing, I think, that set me – this was my out, my great out, because, you know, we went to very kind of –

00:21:28Guest:traditional uh tough uh you know and when you look back at you think that was kind of an insane thing to experience but for me it was really kind of good i i really liked it actually with the nuns and the whole business oh yeah all that stuff and we went through all that stuff you know whacking and yeah getting in trouble oh yeah yeah yeah yeah but but i had a kid one time i saw a kid one of my buddies you thought the priest and the nuns were tough

00:21:52Guest:i saw this guy finally you know my buddy mike weiss it was you know big tall tough kid who was kind of getting into trouble really a basically good guy he's like 12 13 years old and one day the nun hit him and i guess he reached his limit he got up and he punched her and i went holy they're throwing down him and a nun are throwing down

00:22:12Guest:This is unbelievable.

00:22:15Guest:That really opened my eyes.

00:22:16Guest:What happened to that kid?

00:22:18Guest:You know, he kind of went through a thing.

00:22:20Guest:There were a couple kids in school.

00:22:21Guest:I mean, seriously trouble.

00:22:22Guest:You know, did time and all that.

00:22:24Guest:But all of a sudden, it sounds like a Jimmy Cagney movie.

00:22:27Guest:It kind of is.

00:22:28Guest:Yeah, it kind of is.

00:22:30Guest:But my dad, like I was saying, my dad really respected her because she knew, you know,

00:22:35Guest:he said this is probably a matriarchy and i'm good with it because she was really solid woman and yeah he trusted her totally and so he i think he liked that there was that structure and thing but he was protestant so i remember the thing of you know you nobody's going to heaven except catholics and i'm you know when you're this big you think well hold on a minute that means that guy who i've never seen do anything wrong my dad ain't gonna make it

00:22:59Guest:and that was my that was great for me because i went there i like i think i tucked that away and went okay there's a hole yeah right there's a hole yeah yeah but i don't roll with everything that's clearly a hole and that was great for the future because i never got bought into a lot of stuff after that right right i didn't buy out i just didn't buy into it but did you have that concept of hell i mean yeah yeah early on i went oh yeah you went oh this that's harsh yeah yeah

00:23:24Guest:Definitely want to avoid that if possible.

00:23:27Guest:And then, of course, you do everything that attracts you toward that.

00:23:30Marc:Yeah, right.

00:23:31Marc:Of course.

00:23:31Guest:But then there's a, you know, you just got to go to confession, right?

00:23:34Guest:It was the greatest.

00:23:35Guest:I once did, I once did, here's another thing I don't think I ever told anybody.

00:23:40Guest:I once did credit, what I call credit confession, which was really ingenious because I was starting to get a little older and I mean, some guys were going out and, you know, we were starting to, we're starting to get in a little bit of trouble now, you know,

00:23:52Guest:here and there and i thought oh this could be a good night and you know there were going to be some pretty cute girls along so i thought you know what i'm going to do we're going to the drive and i thought i'm going to confess now what i hope is going to happen and then adjust the story later yeah then just say well i got one coming yeah and if i don't use it i'll use it another time did you do it yeah i confessed to them i started like like like laying in an account down yeah and the priest was like and by the way nothing happened and i go well i got one i'm good for one

00:24:22Guest:How many kids you got?

00:24:25Guest:I only have one.

00:24:25Guest:Did you raise him with any?

00:24:28Guest:No, you know, and sometimes I wish we would have.

00:24:30Guest:His mom, who is not alive anymore, was really great, tremendous, just tremendous woman, and we both gave him, you know, a sense of...

00:24:39Guest:he's like a ridiculously good guy and um like sometimes you think holy moly i mean i knew i was a good parent but this is this kid is it worked out yeah and some of this is just him i'm sure yeah but but um you know sometimes i wish there would have been a base because i think you got to start from somewhere and then go okay you know here's here's where i'm moving from yeah and if you don't move have any place to move from i don't know what you do but but he stays pretty solid you know he's got i don't know you know we talk about things like that but i don't know where he is

00:25:05Marc:terms he keeps it to himself he does a little bit yeah yeah we talk about it but it keeps you know pretty much you know it's nothing too dramatic he's not a hari krishna or jewish you would know that well his girlfriend's israeli so you know he may convert oh yeah oh wow you never know well they're not always the best jews but they're definitely israeli yeah but israelis will tell you that they are the best jews they'll say they'll tell you that we're not like guys like me like they're not real jews that's right you

00:25:32Marc:If they were real Jews, they'd be in the army with me.

00:25:35Guest:Hey, man, I got to tell you, though.

00:25:36Guest:Yeah.

00:25:37Guest:Well, we could go on and on about that.

00:25:39Guest:You know, that's there's a lot to be said.

00:25:40Guest:Maybe maybe you have to be that tiny and that, you know, constantly surrounded by.

00:25:46Guest:Yeah.

00:25:47Guest:vigilance certainly builds character on some level yeah man i'm telling you they are they're remarkable and and you know he he by the way he just he's got um he's a songwriter and a musician and he just um this girl uh whom i was not with whom i was not familiar um until recently she's she's this this girl on um x factor demi lovato uh he he's uh she's got a cd coming out and he's he wrote the single

00:26:14Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:26:15Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:15Marc:Songwriter.

00:26:16Guest:Yeah, good songwriter.

00:26:17Marc:That's a good racket, dude.

00:26:18Marc:Dude, that's a real business.

00:26:20Marc:Yeah, no shit.

00:26:21Marc:Man, if that thing goes, that's kind of sit back and watch it come in money.

00:26:25Marc:I love that you just go, that's a good racket.

00:26:29Marc:The guys who got in on songwriting early on, they knew what they were doing, man.

00:26:33Marc:You aren't kidding me.

00:26:34Marc:I mean, it's money forever.

00:26:35Marc:If the song is fucking.

00:26:36Marc:Yeah.

00:26:37Marc:Like, you know, like someone like Van Morrison or Bob Seger even.

00:26:40Marc:Yeah.

00:26:40Marc:Just sort of sits back and once a year or four times a year he gets these checks.

00:26:44Marc:Oh, man.

00:26:44Marc:Just from classic hit radio play.

00:26:46Marc:Just because Night Moves.

00:26:47Marc:Yeah.

00:26:48Marc:It's still on Ritmo.

00:26:50Marc:You know?

00:26:52Marc:Yes.

00:26:52Marc:It's a stroke of genius.

00:26:53Marc:You're not kidding.

00:26:54Marc:And, like, even with, like, I got to assume, like, you know, you still get residual checks from Batman, but those things kind of... Yeah.

00:27:00Guest:They trickle down.

00:27:00Guest:They do.

00:27:01Guest:You know what's really fun, though?

00:27:02Guest:You get one from some...

00:27:05Guest:You get one... From a TV show?

00:27:07Guest:Yeah, like for $12.

00:27:08Guest:And for some reason, when you get one for like, I don't know, $127 or something, it feels like real money.

00:27:15Guest:It's so exciting.

00:27:16Guest:You go, holy shit, here's 127.

00:27:17Guest:I never counted on it.

00:27:19Guest:Yeah, where'd it come from?

00:27:20Guest:It's so weird.

00:27:21Guest:The larger number you might get, you go, yeah, well, I kind of thought that.

00:27:24Guest:I don't know why that is.

00:27:25Guest:Here's the surprise dinner from that TV show I did 20 years ago.

00:27:29Guest:Right.

00:27:30Guest:I actually get money.

00:27:31Guest:How about this?

00:27:31Guest:I think I got a check once for $7, something like, literally like $7 or $11 or $14.

00:27:36Guest:I wrote one and a half on this little Christmas movie I did.

00:27:43Guest:I wrote one of the tunes, one and a half the tunes.

00:27:46Guest:So you have to join ASCAP.

00:27:47Guest:Right, right, right.

00:27:48Guest:And I got a check one day for like $11.

00:27:50Marc:Surprise, there you go.

00:27:52Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:53Marc:But, you know, if it was a huge hit, that'd be a bigger check.

00:27:57Marc:Yeah.

00:27:58Marc:If it became a Christmas carol that people are saying every year.

00:28:01Marc:Can you imagine that?

00:28:02Guest:Hey, can you, you know, you're right about those guys, too.

00:28:05Guest:You'll meet some guy and, you know, you say, yeah, I got an island or something, you know, and you go, really?

00:28:10Guest:He said, I wrote this tune years ago.

00:28:12Guest:And you go, holy shit.

00:28:15Marc:bought an island yeah yeah but when did the when did this sort of bug to be a performer kind of get into your bones I mean was it it's when Catholic school yeah I think so really yeah yeah I remember that's funny I was thinking that today before I I knew you knew we were gonna do this today

00:28:34Guest:that's i was thinking about it not like i've never thought of it before but it just hit me i started trying to trace where it kind of really took hold and when i i didn't really start owning it till like later on it's like you know i would assume what it's like if you know you come out of the closet you kind of go kind of mumble yeah i think i'm going to be an actor you know a comedian you know it's like where i come from you know people would either smack you in the back of the head or you know laugh at you or something so

00:29:02Guest:So you kind of hold that down.

00:29:03Marc:You're a bum.

00:29:04Guest:Yeah.

00:29:05Guest:Or who do you think you are or something like that.

00:29:07Guest:Oh, right.

00:29:07Guest:What would your dad do?

00:29:09Guest:He was a surveyor and an engineer.

00:29:11Guest:Kind of self-made guy.

00:29:13Guest:Yeah?

00:29:14Marc:And he was like a contracted guy?

00:29:16Marc:Yeah.

00:29:17Guest:And he had his own little business.

00:29:18Guest:He usually worked two jobs.

00:29:19Guest:And then he became a township commissioner and then a county surveyor for the entire county.

00:29:26Guest:So he was a guy who, as a kid, just kind of taught himself how to do these things.

00:29:29Guest:But I think it happened in...

00:29:31Guest:because I always I don't know you know people I say when you're the youngest of seven you get a lot of attention it might have been that you know you made people laugh and get impressions and maybe that was it but I remember a pivotal moment

00:29:47Guest:I'd gotten into trouble, and one of the nuns said, okay, and she tried to, this was weird, you know, there was a lot of this weirdness.

00:29:56Guest:And by the way, it was still, I didn't really, I don't have that big kind of, you know, you made me crazy thing that Catholics get.

00:30:03Guest:Right.

00:30:05Guest:It was a day when we were supposed to be doing something, and I was goofing around, or me and my friends were doing something.

00:30:10Guest:And she said, all right, stand up.

00:30:11Guest:And it was weird, because this is so kind of sadistic.

00:30:14Guest:She said, well, I want you to sing.

00:30:15Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:30:16Guest:to everybody sing this song and when i think about it it's so weird it must have been i'm going to embarrass you i'm going to put you in a position this is punishment yeah yeah you know how sick is that yeah one thing to go get whacked and go you know go stand on the corner like to make you vulnerable yeah exactly and you have to sit in it yeah and somewhere man i i figured that out yeah and i stood there and i used to get very shy actually and i used to get really red in the face and i remember being beat red and i remember the decision saying okay

00:30:46Guest:all right you know what what's this fucker and i went and i just thought no no commit to this motherfucker yeah just stand there because she thinks you're gonna back down yeah so i thought and i was already embarrassed and scared and i said fuck this yeah and i just started belling so off key and so bad do you remember the song no it was some silly little song and i and she actually laughed to her credit and she kind of got it she went oh okay

00:31:09Marc:That was the first big laugh.

00:31:11Marc:Yeah.

00:31:11Guest:And then I went, okay, you know what?

00:31:13Guest:I'm not embarrassed.

00:31:13Guest:I'm kind of, you know, I can stand up in front of people.

00:31:16Marc:Yeah.

00:31:17Marc:It's a weird way to learn.

00:31:18Marc:Yeah.

00:31:20Marc:Defying the none.

00:31:22Guest:I'm looking here on your shelf this way.

00:31:23Guest:I'm going across.

00:31:24Guest:The Bible?

00:31:25Guest:Yeah.

00:31:26Guest:The Harvard Psychedelic Club, and then a pack of Nicorette.

00:31:30Guest:Nicorette, yeah, I love it.

00:31:31Guest:I love Nicorette.

00:31:32Guest:How long did you quit?

00:31:34Guest:Like 11 years.

00:31:35Guest:Oh, man, that is a brutal addiction, nicotine.

00:31:38Marc:I'm still on it, but I'm not sucking hot smoke into my lungs.

00:31:40Marc:Yeah.

00:31:41Marc:I love these Nicorette's.

00:31:42Marc:I know I should get off it, but I think it's just a hands-on kind of anxiety treatment.

00:31:47Marc:Yeah, but that's better than, like you say, breathing.

00:31:49Marc:Oh, yeah, no, it's much better, I think.

00:31:50Marc:I don't even investigate the negative sides of Nicorette.

00:31:54Marc:Yeah.

00:31:54Marc:I mean, there's got to be some.

00:31:56Marc:I don't think so.

00:31:57Guest:Did you smoke?

00:31:58Guest:Yeah, I was a smoker, and also I was a chewer.

00:32:01Guest:Oh.

00:32:01Guest:That's really brutal.

00:32:02Marc:How did you start that in Pennsylvania?

00:32:04Guest:Yeah, playing baseball, I think.

00:32:06Guest:I thought it was cool.

00:32:07Guest:And then I was a mad, and still am a bit, but I was a mad fisherman for a while.

00:32:12Guest:And it's so pleasant to just either dip or have chew in your mouth.

00:32:16Guest:And that's a harsh addiction, man.

00:32:18Guest:That is like...

00:32:19Guest:Brutal.

00:32:20Guest:You never really, like me and my friends say, you never really quit.

00:32:23Guest:You just avoid it for the rest of your life.

00:32:25Marc:Yeah, and choose, so it's not one of those socially acceptable ones.

00:32:29Marc:No, no.

00:32:30Marc:I was doing this shit from Sweden, this snooze stuff.

00:32:32Marc:So you know the snooze?

00:32:34Marc:I do.

00:32:34Marc:I know these Swedes, and they... They stick it in the top of their mouth?

00:32:39Marc:They do it all the time, too.

00:32:40Marc:Yeah, it's fucking great.

00:32:41Marc:Really?

00:32:45Yeah.

00:32:45Marc:dude i didn't know it existed and i went to this website and it's a regular thing in sweden and there's hundreds of different kinds and like i so i ordered some like i ordered a bunch of different kinds the strongest kind and that stuff you know you stick it in and like the strong one it's like you got to sit down you know yeah i mean i'm like this is terrific

00:33:06Marc:yeah you get pulled over oh yeah yeah you know sweaty throw up cop looks under your lip yeah i'm sorry it's completely legal i just had no idea i was gonna kick my ass and the hit is right away right it's like boom it's pretty quick yeah i mean yeah i don't think anything hits you as as fast as smoking but you know with chew too i mean you put it in you got about a minute before you gotta yeah kind of wrangle it

00:33:28Marc:Yeah.

00:33:29Marc:You know, they get that queasiness.

00:33:31Marc:Yeah.

00:33:32Marc:So that was your thing.

00:33:33Marc:That was really hard to quit.

00:33:34Marc:You were a baseball guy early on?

00:33:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:33:36Guest:In school?

00:33:37Guest:Yeah, everything.

00:33:38Guest:Were you good?

00:33:39Guest:Yeah, it was good, actually, up until I couldn't.

00:33:41Guest:You know what happens?

00:33:42Guest:You reach a point where everybody gets bigger than you and stronger than you, and I was late to grow.

00:33:46Guest:I was kind of small.

00:33:48Guest:Yeah.

00:33:48Guest:I remember my eyesight went, and I didn't wear glasses for all.

00:33:50Guest:I didn't know my eyesight was bad, and I couldn't see the ball anymore.

00:33:54Guest:And years later, I figured out what it was.

00:33:55Guest:Like, were you in rural Pennsylvania?

00:33:58Guest:Semi.

00:33:58Guest:It was actually, you know, you know what those states are like.

00:34:01Guest:You know, you could be right in town, an urban area, but, you know, you could walk, you know, 14 minutes and you'd be in the woods.

00:34:08Guest:So we were right in between these kind of mill and railroad towns.

00:34:15Guest:Yeah.

00:34:16Guest:And so you were in the country.

00:34:17Guest:So we were actually kind of country kids.

00:34:20Guest:And we had a black and white.

00:34:21Guest:We had one of the first black and white.

00:34:23Guest:In fact, the house...

00:34:25Guest:The first house I lived in was tiny, tiny, tiny.

00:34:29Guest:And I slept in a crib in my mom and dad's room for the first year or something.

00:34:32Guest:It was a little small house, but not all seven.

00:34:34Guest:I think five, well, seven people, five kids or something.

00:34:38Guest:And then we moved to this big farmhouse that my dad got from his family.

00:34:41Guest:It was a rundown.

00:34:43Guest:I loved it.

00:34:44Guest:It was a dump, though.

00:34:45Guest:We lived like hillbillies.

00:34:46Guest:But somehow we got this... In fact, my sister told me this recently, and I never knew this.

00:34:52Guest:She said for the first...

00:34:53Guest:half a year or something.

00:34:55Guest:We didn't have inside plumbing or something.

00:34:59Guest:We literally had an outhouse.

00:35:00Guest:I didn't even know it when I first moved out.

00:35:02Guest:It was about four when I moved into that one.

00:35:04Guest:And then my dad fixed it when we finally had a... Plumbing?

00:35:06Guest:Come on.

00:35:08Guest:But anyway, in that house, my dad somehow got a black and white television.

00:35:12Guest:He won it in a raffle or something like that.

00:35:15Guest:And my brothers would tell me that neighbors would come down and watch your TV.

00:35:20Guest:Yeah.

00:35:20Guest:You know, sitting on your TV.

00:35:22Marc:They got one.

00:35:23Guest:i know where we're going bringing over pies and shit yeah yeah yeah which by the way if you ever saw one in somebody else's house you knew they took it that's right it was easy to track down the television so i think i used to i would get obsessed with watching all old westerns especially and um

00:35:42Guest:And then as time went on, the funny, I really got lost in some of the funny stuff, but I was never, a lot of the television comedy never really made me laugh until, you know, I was like 14 when stuff like Get Smart started to come around.

00:35:56Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:57Guest:Most stuff never really, I don't know about you, I'm always curious about this.

00:36:00Guest:I bet we're really, you, who's really funny, honestly, this is not a snobbery thing or anything.

00:36:07Guest:I'll bet if you ask most guys that you, or people that you think are really funny,

00:36:11Guest:a lot of stuff i never really got i never really thought um you know like adam costello were funny uh lauren hardy were funny but like i never got the stooges like late i love the concept of the stooges makes me laugh hysterically slapstick's not a big was not a big thing for me when i was

00:36:28Marc:a kid yeah some kids get a you know even the marx brothers though that you know at all he was so witty though you know very yeah when i got i appreciated him later yeah right but i you know no slapstick because i used to you know what my grandfather loved it but it was all before my time

00:36:43Marc:But, I mean, your namesake is Buster Keaton.

00:36:46Marc:Yeah.

00:36:46Marc:So you must have resonated with something.

00:36:48Marc:Well, those guys physically were kind of, he was amazing.

00:36:51Marc:Unbelievable.

00:36:52Guest:Yeah.

00:36:52Guest:I mean, an athlete, actually.

00:36:54Guest:Yeah.

00:36:54Guest:You know.

00:36:55Marc:Yeah.

00:36:55Marc:An acrobat.

00:36:56Marc:Yeah.

00:36:57Marc:Him and Chaplin, I think.

00:36:58Marc:They were both sort of acrobatic.

00:37:00Guest:Yeah.

00:37:01Guest:Yeah.

00:37:02Guest:So they, you know, that doesn't exist anymore.

00:37:03Guest:Those kind of guys.

00:37:05Guest:Anybody physical.

00:37:06Guest:I mean, you know.

00:37:06Guest:There's a few guys that are great at physical comedies.

00:37:09Guest:Yeah, but you never, where do you guys ever do that anymore?

00:37:12Guest:There's no venue for it, really.

00:37:13Marc:Well, like Ben Stiller on a good day, if he's cast right, can do like, you know, in the Farrelly Brothers movie.

00:37:18Marc:Yeah.

00:37:19Marc:I think he's got pretty great physical timing.

00:37:20Marc:Yeah, he does, yeah.

00:37:21Marc:Kevin James has got really great physical timing.

00:37:24Marc:Yeah, he does.

00:37:24Guest:Fat guys, man.

00:37:25Guest:You know, they're funny.

00:37:26Marc:Isn't that funny how they move and they know?

00:37:28Marc:There's just some dudes that like, they can't help but be funny, even if they're just sitting there.

00:37:31Marc:You're right.

00:37:31Marc:I don't know what it is.

00:37:33Guest:Yeah.

00:37:33Guest:You got to have it or you don't.

00:37:35Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:37:36Guest:And so I don't know about you, but it started coming around with me later.

00:37:38Guest:I found, I didn't, when I'd see guys in a,

00:37:40Guest:western or you know movies my movie knowledge really came later when we we couldn't go to a movie we'd go to a drive-in now and then my brothers put me in the trunk and you know save two bucks literally and then would get out and and then would go down occasionally me and my buddies might go see a movie but movies really kind of came around in my in my mid-teens or late teens and then i was obsessed with which watching film i really fell in love with that but

00:38:05Guest:i i really only got it felt like i could step out and try something when uh in kind of turning in high school i was starting to feel you know in grade school i always had funny friends right my friends were always funny right guys i was running with and in high school the guys i was running with that was the common denominator like they were all tougher than i was i mean you know i was i might have been described as scrappy but they were all tough guys like you know

00:38:30Guest:And so, but they were, but the common denominator, my type guys were, the guys I was talking with were funny and always made me laugh or I made them laugh.

00:38:39Guest:And then I became obsessed with like, uh, uh, you know, the lamp, the lampoon or, or, or anything like mad.

00:38:47Marc:There's things like national athletes.

00:38:47Guest:Oh, yeah, me too.

00:38:50Guest:And Mad Magazine, right?

00:38:50Guest:Yeah.

00:38:51Guest:Mad, I kind of got later because it never made me laugh either.

00:38:54Guest:But then when I looked back on it, I thought, oh, this is so kind of weirdly cool in some kind of weirdly weird way.

00:39:00Guest:Changed my life.

00:39:01Guest:Both those magazines.

00:39:02Guest:Yeah.

00:39:02Guest:Changed my life.

00:39:03Guest:National Lampoon was fucking... Me too.

00:39:05Guest:Mind blown.

00:39:05Guest:Me too.

00:39:06Guest:And then I would do nothing but write things.

00:39:09Guest:And then the first...

00:39:12Guest:you know still i i didn't hang out around with theater people even though i took a theater class and i didn't really connect to them at all it wasn't like but i would know musicals no but i i love them actually now i admire them really good when they think that kind of knocked me out i don't know if you saw uh um the mormon thing i didn't see that yet dude it's so fucking good you cannot believe it on every level

00:39:36Guest:those guys are geniuses oh man i'm telling you they make me crazy i there was there's a thing i don't want to ruin it for you but there's a thing where a guy comes out and sings and somehow he makes this line work um i've gotten maggots in my scrotum yeah do you know this no dude i couldn't get it out of my head and i would be in the middle of the scene i was working on a movie and i'd hear that in the back of my head and i just started laughing people thought i was crazy i couldn't stop hearing i got maggots in my scrotum

00:40:01Guest:Well, that's good.

00:40:02Marc:I'm sure they'll be happy to know that they made such an impact with that important bit of information.

00:40:07Guest:But then did you, I mean, I then found a way to get on.

00:40:12Guest:There was actually a coffee house.

00:40:14Guest:It sounds so dated, but in Pittsburgh, there was a-

00:40:18Guest:Yeah, they kind of are, right?

00:40:20Guest:And so I went in and there was no... I don't think there was even a riser.

00:40:24Guest:There might have been a riser.

00:40:25Guest:There's no mic.

00:40:26Guest:I worked at a place in East L.A.

00:40:28Guest:one time that had no mic.

00:40:30Guest:And I had to get off stage.

00:40:31Guest:I remember going, I get to get off here because there's a bus that I got to catch and it's the last one out of Hollywood that takes me up to a connection over into the valley.

00:40:41Guest:And then I got to get another connection and get to Van Nuys, like Reseda, where I was living.

00:40:45Guest:or something like receded boulevard when he first got to la yeah so i had to let go shit i gotta make this fast because i had to run down the street i took buses wow that is impressive yeah so what was this so this was like your first stand-up shot the first one was in pittsburgh i talked my way into them let me up and i'm in the coffee house

00:41:05Guest:Yeah, and it was actually relatively good.

00:41:07Guest:Then a buddy of mine said, hey, a guy named Hawk DiVenzio.

00:41:13Guest:He said, hey, man, he was kind of into comedy, too.

00:41:16Guest:And he said, there's a club where later I saw Richard Lewis.

00:41:19Guest:But it was a jazz club.

00:41:21Guest:It wasn't even a comedy club.

00:41:22Guest:And you know how...

00:41:22Guest:horrible that can be I've talked about this before you know I'd follow this so I said hey would you ever let a guy and they go yeah whatever come on down whatever he care we gotta take a break yeah just the worst audience in the world but worse than that

00:41:38Guest:like you know jazz you might find somebody who's relatively hip but i would follow this this uh irish folk singer this would go on you know those tunes see what they're like they're endless i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah and they're sad yeah they're like brutal you know he'd be like on the fifth kid everyone dies yeah

00:41:57Guest:you know and then then danny went down in the sea you know and you go and you know she had 11 kids i go god he's gonna go through the whole family and then it'd be like july and he'd be in like a fisherman's sweater you know and i'd be singing and i'd go and i'd look at him and he'd finish with one of these horrible tunes and then i'd have to follow him and it was just brutal it's horrible

00:42:19Guest:but when you started doing it i mean what was your who who sort of like what provoked you to do that the guys that i loved at that time were probably all the guys you loved and still love which was prior carlin robert klein and the guy for me who was was and a lot of guys i mean i'm a huge bob and ray fan oh yeah yeah i mean those those guys just hilarious yeah so you know you look at all that

00:42:43Guest:And I'm a fan of a whole lot going back and people now.

00:42:48Guest:But I guess who I was looking at was Richard Pryor and all those guys.

00:42:52Guest:And then Steve Martin was really interesting because he really changed things.

00:42:56Guest:I mean, he became this kind of rock and roll comedian.

00:42:59Guest:But for me, it was always Albert Brooks.

00:43:01Guest:Albert just killed me.

00:43:02Guest:There was nobody funnier.

00:43:03Marc:And I still think to this day.

00:43:04Marc:I was just watching one of his stand-up bits the other day where he's like, you know, I'm not that kind of guy.

00:43:12Marc:I'm not going to do that.

00:43:13Marc:You think I'm going to take my pants off?

00:43:15Marc:And then like this.

00:43:16Marc:It was a Tonight Show thing.

00:43:19Marc:And it's interesting that he did it for such a short window.

00:43:21Marc:A small window.

00:43:23Marc:Someone just sent me.

00:43:23Marc:I just got a new copy of Comedy Minus One.

00:43:25Marc:Oh, I had that.

00:43:26Marc:I owned that.

00:43:27Marc:Did you do the script?

00:43:28Marc:Yeah, I saw it.

00:43:29Guest:It was silly, but I had to do it.

00:43:30Marc:It's Georgie Jessel.

00:43:34Marc:I think I did it in college.

00:43:36Marc:So you started doing it there, and didn't you work in television?

00:43:40Marc:Didn't you, like, in local television?

00:43:43Guest:Yeah, I had a job working for the PBS station in Pittsburgh.

00:43:47Guest:I dropped out of school a couple times once to make money, and then I was going to school and college in Ohio.

00:43:53Guest:For what?

00:43:54Guest:Kind of, I think, speech, general speech.

00:43:58Guest:Which is where I took a first year.

00:43:59Marc:Anything as vague as I can figure it out later.

00:44:03Marc:Speech.

00:44:03Marc:Yeah, speech.

00:44:04Marc:Speech.

00:44:05Marc:That was before they had the communications major.

00:44:08Marc:Yes.

00:44:09Marc:Speech evolved into communications, a broader sort of.

00:44:13Marc:Right.

00:44:14Guest:Right.

00:44:14Guest:Yeah.

00:44:15Guest:And taking major in breathing.

00:44:17Guest:yeah um so uh i was there and i did you know i took a theater class too but not acting or anything i wasn't didn't do any of that and then i did actually get into a play and it you know no sparks went off i kind of went oh that was okay yeah and i was not very good in it yeah yeah and then i dropped out to make some money went back school then i dropped out and never went back and i was doing this play uh in pittsburgh in the church that they would convert to a theater but during the day i'd

00:44:41Guest:work for PBS, which included you work on a crew.

00:44:45Guest:You do everything.

00:44:46Guest:You literally do, you know, put things in a warehouse and then you, you know, you floor manage like a really dull PBS news show.

00:44:54Marc:Right.

00:44:54Guest:And then you work on a documentary films.

00:44:56Guest:You do everything.

00:44:56Guest:And I worked for Mr. Rogers crew, which was a wild ass crew.

00:44:59Guest:He was from Pittsburgh.

00:45:00Guest:He was from Pittsburgh.

00:45:01Guest:That's where that started.

00:45:02Marc:There's a wild crew.

00:45:03Guest:Oh, they were the greatest.

00:45:04Guest:These guys are the greatest.

00:45:05Guest:I mean, they just drip with, you know, THC everywhere.

00:45:08Guest:Oh, really?

00:45:09Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:45:09Guest:It just smelled like they just walked out of Tom Petty's house.

00:45:14Marc:So everyone was high, watching Mr. Rogers?

00:45:17Guest:During the shooting, I'm not sure those guys were.

00:45:19Guest:Some of them, several, well, Nick was, yeah.

00:45:21Guest:I mean, he was a floor manager.

00:45:23Guest:And he was so weirdly hip.

00:45:27Guest:And this was the 70s.

00:45:28Guest:Yeah, it must have been in the 70s.

00:45:30Guest:And he was...

00:45:30Guest:such a nice guy and so we kind of actually pretty funny in a weird kind of way god all these guys loved them you know they were all funny and um um interesting guys you know everybody had hair down in the middle of their back and uh except for rogers except for fred yeah yeah fred rogers seems like somebody a high person would invent yeah

00:45:54Marc:You know, like, I can't imagine, like, so you had to deal with him, like, you know, during breaks and things?

00:46:01Guest:Well, that's what you thought, and you thought, you kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know.

00:46:04Guest:Like, for him to be like, get these fucking kids!

00:46:07Guest:Yeah, yeah, we kept waiting for the other tennis shoe to drop.

00:46:10Guest:And they, and it didn't, and you went, this is, this is like it, this is truly, he's really this guy.

00:46:16Guest:And then you get to know him who is like the nicest, sweetest, most authentic dude, you know, and a great sense of humor.

00:46:23Guest:I mean, you could mess with him and make you laugh.

00:46:25Guest:Right.

00:46:26Guest:You know, and we used to do some crazy things.

00:46:28Guest:So I was working there doing all kinds of things, not just on that show.

00:46:30Guest:You do everything.

00:46:31Guest:And then I started going and I was writing.

00:46:34Guest:I was really obsessed with comedy and reading and started writing things and ideas.

00:46:41Guest:Stand-up bits?

00:46:42Guest:Yeah, kind of stand-up bits and just ideas and just things.

00:46:44Guest:I thought, you know what it's like when you start.

00:46:46Guest:You just think things are funny.

00:46:47Guest:You're curious.

00:46:48Guest:You get obsessed with comedy.

00:46:49Guest:So I'd kind of go and work a couple of places in Pittsburgh.

00:46:52Guest:And then a friend of mine moved.

00:46:55Guest:But I still wanted to kind of act more than anything.

00:46:57Guest:And I also thought, well, I'm just going to keep writing, which I should have done.

00:47:00Guest:I think everyone should do.

00:47:01Guest:I don't think you should ever quit doing that.

00:47:03Guest:Yeah.

00:47:03Guest:So I thought, well, maybe I can write.

00:47:06Guest:So I was ready to move to New York because I was going back and forth to work in New York and also... In stand-up clubs?

00:47:13Guest:Stand-up clubs, but I was going to move there to... There were a couple of people I knew who had gone who... I don't know how I met them, but they were trying to be an actor.

00:47:22Guest:so i was going to move to new york and do both or just go throw myself into the and i would fly i would kind of either drive my um old volkswagen up or i forget how the other times i get up there take a train yeah you know you sleep on a friend's floor or what clubs are you working like catch rising stars what's interesting yeah we were talking about this the other day and man so much comes back you know when you start talking about this you forget all these things but

00:47:46Guest:i worked the old which is still the most to me in terms of you know like romance um you know this kind of romantic notion of a kid starting out uh the original improv which i had seen pictures of you know street yeah yeah did you ever work there yeah towards the end wasn't it great aren't you glad you got to be in there in that room because there's something about that room oh yeah that there was no other room like it and one of the letters was broken yeah and yeah i had butt in here a few weeks ago

00:48:13Marc:really yeah laying down the the real history of that place and it was it was intimidating wasn't it oh yeah well he wasn't there by the time i got there was his wife and he had moved out here yeah and and it was still like yeah it was a heavy history those pictures the sort of browning pictures of prior and liza minnelli and yeah and people that i knew as like older comics i'm like that

00:48:33Guest:guy was here i didn't even know he did this yeah yeah and then there were singers you know you'd get you'd get and it was really so to me i felt intimidated thinking oh man these people are hey everybody's better than i am also they've been doing that new york tough thing and bud had a real attitude like and then i worked at catch too catch rising star rick newman

00:48:51Marc:Rick Newman.

00:48:52Marc:Yeah.

00:48:53Marc:A whole different ball of wax.

00:48:54Guest:A whole different ball of wax.

00:48:55Guest:Hey, how are you?

00:48:56Guest:Yeah.

00:48:56Guest:But also like kind of an intimidating thing.

00:48:58Guest:Yeah.

00:48:59Guest:Where were you born?

00:49:00Guest:New Jersey.

00:49:00Guest:Oh, so you're like a guy from, you kind of know that neighborhood a little bit.

00:49:03Marc:Well, I grew up in New Mexico, but I've always kept in touch.

00:49:06Marc:I lived in New York for years and I chased the history of that thing.

00:49:09Marc:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:Yeah.

00:49:10Guest:So to me, I always thought, oh, I'm in way over my head.

00:49:14Guest:And I'm standing, remember you used to line up on the street to sign in on the catch?

00:49:18Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:19Marc:They draw the names out of the hat.

00:49:20Guest:They draw the names, and then you go back.

00:49:22Guest:It's just horrible.

00:49:23Guest:So the first guy I meet is Larry, David.

00:49:28Guest:Yeah.

00:49:29Guest:And we're standing next to each other, and he just seems so much like...

00:49:34Guest:older and knowledgeable and grumpy and i thought no guy like you know i mean he's a little bit older than i am but he's not that much older than i am and he and he but he seemed just like he knew so much and he used to always wear that old army green fatigue jacket yeah and i thought this fucking guy was just funny

00:49:49Guest:yeah even on the street he wasn't doing bits or anything yeah just oh i just thought this guy's like somebody he's so from not from my world and he and i were the only two asked back that night and we hung and talked for a minute yeah and then we both showed up like the next night or something on a spot and you know it went kind of well and he was funny and i remember he used to i think

00:50:11Guest:I couldn't believe anybody would ever do this.

00:50:14Guest:And I was so knocked out by it.

00:50:17Guest:People wouldn't laugh.

00:50:17Guest:You've seen him.

00:50:18Guest:People wouldn't laugh.

00:50:18Guest:And then he just ridicules you for not laughing.

00:50:21Guest:Like, you're stupid.

00:50:21Guest:If you're not laughing...

00:50:23Guest:It was so, his balls are so huge.

00:50:26Guest:And you saw that the first time you met him?

00:50:28Guest:Yes, I thought, are you kidding me?

00:50:30Guest:Me, I'd crawl up in a ball and go, oh, geez, I gotta really work on this, you know?

00:50:34Guest:He'd just say, what the fuck are you thinking?

00:50:38Guest:Did it change your mind about how to deuce that?

00:50:41Guest:No, I still thought, oh, man, that guy, that's never gonna work, you know?

00:50:46Guest:And I don't think he thought it did either for a long time.

00:50:49Guest:I don't think he gave a shit.

00:50:50Guest:That's what's so impressive.

00:50:51Guest:Yeah, maybe.

00:50:52Guest:That's what knocked me out.

00:50:53Marc:Well, if he did, I didn't know, and I thought, wow, that's huge.

00:50:57Marc:You have to sort of manufacture some pretending to not give a shit.

00:51:00Marc:Yeah, that's probably right.

00:51:01Marc:They're going to eat you alive, you know.

00:51:02Marc:But, I mean, that's certainly taking it to the...

00:51:04Marc:Well, you were just, what, doing observational stuff, some characters?

00:51:07Guest:I don't know.

00:51:08Guest:Yeah, I was never like, I never know how to do jokes.

00:51:12Guest:I mean, every once in a while, I'd have a real good structured joke.

00:51:14Guest:And I think guys who structure jokes, I think they're great.

00:51:17Guest:They're craftsmen.

00:51:19Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:20Guest:I think that's really something.

00:51:22Guest:So what made you go from L.A.

00:51:24Guest:over to New York?

00:51:25Guest:Well, here's what happened.

00:51:25Guest:I was going to go live there, and a friend of mine, really witty, funny guy, would write occasional things on... Older guy would write some things at PBS, and he kind of had... At this station, he kind of had a show, and he was always funny.

00:51:38Guest:And he met someone who invited him to go out to California, and he got this writing gig, and he became a staff writer on some of those Norman Lear shows.

00:51:47Guest:and he we were communicating i had sold him some jokes on it for something yeah uh 25 bucks a joke or something and he he said hey you know what you would have come to la i remember this expression he said it's wide open out here and i i so i just moved and slept on floor you know lived with a couple guys i knew from high school for a little bit and then moved into a place and you know we had what year is that uh mid 70s

00:52:11Guest:i guess yeah wide open it was wide open that was the expression yeah and i thought yeah i'll see what this is like but i'm ultimately i'll go back there and then i took second city workshops and i was working you know parking cars and working in bars yeah they they had this company that moved out here and was working in uh pasadena of all places i probably leaned more toward sctv than snl when i was in i don't know about you i liked snl a lot but

00:52:35Guest:SCTV always kind of did something for me that the other ones didn't.

00:52:38Marc:Well, it had this weird context to it.

00:52:40Marc:It was all contained.

00:52:42Marc:It wasn't like a showcase.

00:52:44Marc:It wasn't a presentation.

00:52:45Marc:It wasn't, here's the next bit.

00:52:47Marc:Here's your musical act.

00:52:49Marc:It had a conceit that kind of contained it all.

00:52:52Guest:But didn't you find it really that great?

00:52:56Marc:smart thing without being smart like no look at how smart i am you know just really i don't know those guys i mean they were so good such great comedy actors and so versatile i mean after the first season of snl which was when i was a little kid you know i i you know i liked a few of the seasons but then it sort of drifted away yeah and sctv was this thing like that it didn't last yeah which always makes it more interesting yeah yeah like that's all we have of that

00:53:20Marc:that was it yeah and they were also and canadians are like they they have less ego for some reason oh totally it's a very weird thing as comedic performers they they i don't know if that's a generalization but they don't like they don't exude the it's all about me thing as much no and they're and and

00:53:37Guest:there i mean we've i've talked about this i'm sure you've talked about this when when you come out of canada and you're funny you're usually really funny it's not funny beyond like oh crazy funny you're either kind of not funny or just really really really funny yeah and and midwest there's that midwest thing you know too you know that i love like bob and ray and new heart and then and then you see the thing i think i love is

00:53:59Guest:you know the thing i remember about letterman all the time i was watching him being honored the other night i caught the end of the show and it was really knocked me out you know i gotta watch that at the kennedy center yeah you look at it and you go fuck this is huge man and it's so great and then you go he's from indiana yeah you know that's what i kind of dig like i like where people are from with their frame of reference is you know and that when i meet when i see those kind of guys and you go there's something about also this midwest thing that's kind of like i don't know what can you explain it you know where that that all that that midwestern kind of

00:54:28Marc:Well, you know, you listen, my context is sort of like there's a kind of like stick-to-it-ness and there's a sort of politeness to it.

00:54:37Guest:Yeah.

00:54:38Marc:That no matter how dark it gets, there's a sort of politeness to it.

00:54:41Guest:Which makes it all even more interesting.

00:54:43Marc:Yeah, it makes it darker in a way.

00:54:44Marc:so now my big thing with you was that like i was a doorman at the comedy store uh very early you know when i was younger for about a year before i got all fucked up and your name was on the wall there and i was like when i was there i was like michael keaton was here but how long was he here for what was that you know you that place is such a mythic dark place to me yeah and it has a very like weird place in my heart and mind what was your experience there

00:55:08Marc:Well, mostly good.

00:55:09Marc:I was just going to ask you what yours was.

00:55:11Marc:I was a doorman, and I had to deal with Mitzi, and I had to jump through the hoops, and I got tied up with Canison, and I got fucked up on drugs.

00:55:20Marc:I was 22, and I left for you.

00:55:22Guest:Yeah, I think you were the guys who came right after me.

00:55:24Guest:Here's how I did it, and I'd be really curious about you, because it's brutal, and then...

00:55:32Guest:you know it can become a an unhealthy uh place the whole world of that can be on and i never wanted i always used to say i never wanted to catch the disease you know so i never really what comedy you know the disease of all that crazy neurosis and and uh and the and the unhappiness and the miserable stuff you didn't want to be infected with comedy in that way i really didn't i thought so unfun yeah

00:55:56Guest:To be that guy.

00:55:58Marc:Yeah.

00:55:59Guest:I mean, I'd like to be at least a little bit happy while I'm doing comedy.

00:56:05Guest:You knew that right away.

00:56:06Guest:You're like, these guys are all miserable.

00:56:09Guest:Aren't we supposed to be having some fun here?

00:56:11Guest:Exactly.

00:56:12Guest:I really thought, shouldn't it be a little fun adventure?

00:56:14Guest:This is really worth it.

00:56:15Guest:And I was very, you know, I would go and I would time it so I could kind of pull in, park, get up and time it so I wasn't hanging too long.

00:56:23Guest:And then if I was, I'd go out and pace in the back and just kind of stay focused and stay locked in.

00:56:28Guest:Who were hanging around then, though, like you?

00:56:31Guest:Well, you know, Letterman and I, and that's where I got to be friends with him out here.

00:56:35Guest:And who else, you know, Jay Leno already was like on this other level.

00:56:40Guest:You know, the first time I saw him in New York, I went, Jesus, this guy is, you know, he's a young guy and he already, it was so much more sophisticated in standup.

00:56:49Marc:You know how he did it.

00:56:49Guest:You saw him at the improv?

00:56:50Guest:Yeah.

00:56:51Guest:Yeah.

00:56:51Guest:And then who else was coming?

00:56:53Guest:You know, Robin came like the year after I got here.

00:56:55Guest:So he was kind of a part of that.

00:56:57Guest:And there was this guy, I don't know if you remember, Thomerson, but Thomerson.

00:56:59Guest:Tim Thomerson.

00:57:00Guest:Yeah.

00:57:01Guest:Who's a really good dude.

00:57:02Guest:That one bit.

00:57:03Guest:That one bit.

00:57:05Guest:But you know what?

00:57:06Guest:I never saw anybody like him.

00:57:08Guest:And I got to be friends with him because I really like him.

00:57:11Guest:He's really a nice, good guy.

00:57:13Guest:And I never... My frame of reference for comics were...

00:57:17Guest:Jewish, Catholic, black, urban, tough, cutting.

00:57:22Guest:I never saw a California guy.

00:57:24Marc:Yeah.

00:57:24Guest:And he was really good looking.

00:57:26Guest:Yeah.

00:57:26Guest:And a fucking danger.

00:57:27Guest:Yeah.

00:57:28Guest:You know, that was what was hip about him, I thought.

00:57:30Guest:He was dangerous.

00:57:31Guest:Yeah.

00:57:31Guest:That motherfucker looked like he might not just kick your ass, you know.

00:57:34Guest:But also, you go to a bar and get drunk with him, too.

00:57:37Marc:Crazy water.

00:57:37Guest:white guy crazy white guy but with a sense of humor who was good looking and surfed yeah you kidding me i never saw that shit before yeah and i he and then we got to be kind of pal because he really liked what i did and he i was in i was working some someplace i think san diego there and you know it was going well and he i but but there were very few people in the room and he was fucking howling and then he came and grabbed me we started bullshit and then i ran into him skiing one time yeah

00:58:00Guest:But there were those kind of guys, and then there was a whole group that came around.

00:58:05Guest:But that's how I did it.

00:58:06Guest:I knew I had to be really focused on what I did, and I wanted to make the most of it.

00:58:11Guest:And I worked a few times, and it was okay.

00:58:15Guest:And then I was sitting in my crummy little apartment out in North Hollywood, and I thought, you know.

00:58:21Guest:Did you have a car yet?

00:58:22Guest:Oh, yeah, I had a car.

00:58:24Guest:At that time, I had a car.

00:58:25Guest:I wasn't hitchhiking down.

00:58:27Guest:I had a 63 yellow Volkswagen.

00:58:29Guest:and i would go uh and i thought i got really frustrated and i and i went in the like writing binge and i just said and i just pumped everybody in amount of energy i couldn't i went down and said i'm coming back up on stage i hadn't been on for a while and it was you know kind of going mitzi like yeah she did but she was doing and she's a nice woman but she was and then i just hit it one night i just fucking killed it

00:58:51Guest:And that was it.

00:58:53Guest:She said, come back tomorrow.

00:58:53Guest:And then you know what it's like.

00:58:55Guest:You build up that time.

00:58:56Marc:It's so long to build up any chunk of time.

00:58:59Guest:But I'll tell you what, man.

00:59:00Guest:You guys who do that, people don't know.

00:59:03Guest:I'm probably, I guess, anyone who's listening is already interested.

00:59:10Guest:So they have a knowledge of what they have knowledge of.

00:59:12Guest:But...

00:59:13Guest:For people who don't, I was on a show, I was on a movie once or a television show or something, and we were sitting around, and there was an actor, nice enough guy.

00:59:23Guest:And we're talking, and he said, oh, did you do something?

00:59:26Guest:I said, yeah, I did a little stand-up for a while.

00:59:27Guest:And he said, he said it like this.

00:59:29Guest:He said, I never did that.

00:59:30Guest:And I thought...

00:59:31Guest:I didn't say anything, but he said it like, you know, I never went to college or I never parked cars or I never.

00:59:37Guest:And I went, I thought, wow, this guy doesn't get what he's talking like.

00:59:41Guest:Like I could have done it because people don't know how hard it is and then how hard it is to be good.

00:59:47Guest:Yeah.

00:59:47Marc:it's there's nothing quite like it yeah it and now it's become even like there's like everyone says that now like they're you know now you meet people it's like yeah i'm on the comic what do you mean what does that mean what does that mean right well you did it once or yeah you do free shows you got 10 minutes who are you what the hell are you a fucking comic right and i well guys who who sort of like live by the code of it uh you know who know what it's like yeah

01:00:11Marc:You know, it's almost offensive.

01:00:12Marc:It is offensive.

01:00:13Marc:Yeah, but does that mean you can work anywhere and do it any time?

01:00:16Marc:Drop of a hat?

01:00:16Marc:Can you entertain that five people?

01:00:18Marc:Yeah.

01:00:18Marc:Like, professionally?

01:00:19Marc:Yeah.

01:00:19Marc:Then stop saying you're a comic if you can.

01:00:22Marc:And then do you just punch them in the throat?

01:00:23Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:24Marc:Who deemed you this?

01:00:26Marc:Yeah.

01:00:26Marc:You can't just decide it.

01:00:27Marc:Well, it's hard.

01:00:28Marc:It's hard, and a lot of that code is sort of going away.

01:00:32Marc:It just seems like everybody's trying it.

01:00:35Marc:Everybody's trying improv.

01:00:36Marc:People will work at offices like, I'm going to do it.

01:00:38Marc:It's going to help me with my life.

01:00:40Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:40Marc:This isn't fucking self-help.

01:00:42Marc:This is an important job.

01:00:44Marc:That's right.

01:00:45Marc:We're out here on the front line.

01:00:46Guest:Yeah.

01:00:46Marc:of culture and relevance did you was it brutal trying to get time and putting time together and then get the right time you know when i started it was just like you know want to be a headliner you know and when i came out here i got i didn't know what i was getting into and and i got into the store and you know i got fucked up on drugs with him and

01:01:02Marc:I just wanted to do comedy, and then I went to Boston and started to build out there and then started doing road gigs out of Boston, then moved to New York, then San Francisco, back here.

01:01:12Marc:But it was all the process.

01:01:15Marc:It's only within the last few years that I genuinely feel comfortable with who I am up there and in here and in life.

01:01:22Marc:Really?

01:01:22Marc:Wow.

01:01:23Marc:So it was sort of a weird turn of events.

01:01:25Guest:And that's when you get really good, isn't it?

01:01:27Guest:Yeah, because you don't give a fuck.

01:01:28Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:01:29Guest:Isn't that the greatest...

01:01:30Guest:It's the fucking greatest.

01:01:31Guest:Yeah.

01:01:32Guest:It's like, what's the worst has already happened.

01:01:34Guest:Yeah.

01:01:35Guest:What are you going to do to me?

01:01:36Marc:Yeah.

01:01:36Marc:I mean, what's going to happen?

01:01:37Marc:Yeah.

01:01:37Marc:You know what?

01:01:38Marc:What am I going to bomb?

01:01:39Marc:Oh, well.

01:01:40Marc:Yeah.

01:01:40Marc:Right.

01:01:40Marc:You know, and that doesn't usually happen.

01:01:42Guest:No.

01:01:43Guest:You know, you know, it was funny when you said I went to Boston.

01:01:46Guest:There was always that thing where guys, they still do this.

01:01:49Guest:I go.

01:01:50Guest:Yeah, he's a Boston comic.

01:01:51Guest:Oh, sure.

01:01:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:01:54Guest:He's an Ames, Iowa comic.

01:01:56Marc:And there's more of that now.

01:01:57Marc:Really?

01:01:57Marc:Because there's a scene everywhere because there's a whole new generation of young people that are doing comedy.

01:02:02Marc:And organic scenes have sort of built up around coffee shops and sort of alternative venues.

01:02:08Marc:Like the comedy club system doesn't have a stronghold on people's ability to do comedy anymore.

01:02:14Marc:Huh.

01:02:14Marc:so you don't have to go to the club and wait till you get the six minute spot or wait around an open mic so you can just build a show at a place with some friends who are comics too yeah and just make your own thing yeah yeah so like now it's sort of like yeah there's an aim scene yeah there's like a few guys it's it's true like you know there's a koala lampor absolutely absolutely we got a little thing going here at this place and like you guys and then if you're traveling like you want to come by our thing at the place and i'm like i don't know is it and sometimes they're good now yeah okay i'll come by and then that's

01:02:44Marc:all right yeah there's do you think there are people in certain parts of the world that are funnier than other parts of the world i don't know like i don't know that i would be able to process you know the best chinese comic yeah like i don't know that i'd be laughing for the right reasons yeah i think it's sort of subjective it's such a weird thing isn't it yeah i mean really weird well you know you watch like persian comics there's very broad uh-huh

01:03:04Marc:gesture like you could see how it's comedy yeah but it all is relatively cultural in terms of how one sees it but stand-up is is is american and in its design you know it's like jazz or anything else that came out of here so and people take that template i was watching um

01:03:22Guest:I was watching, I forget where it was.

01:03:26Guest:There was a show, and it was some horrific thing happened.

01:03:29Guest:This was a couple years ago, and they wanted to talk about it with holy men, right?

01:03:33Guest:So they had a priest, a Protestant minister, maybe someone from an Eastern religion, I think, possibly, a rabbi.

01:03:43Guest:Yeah.

01:03:45Guest:Like four or five.

01:03:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:46Guest:And we're just going to...

01:03:48Guest:The priest was charming, actually.

01:03:52Guest:You could tell he probably had a sense of humor.

01:03:53Guest:The other guy, the fucking rabbi was fucking killer.

01:03:57Guest:And I thought, sorry, Jews are funny.

01:04:00Guest:It is fucking odd.

01:04:01Marc:This guy was legitimately funny.

01:04:03Guest:He wasn't even trying to be funny.

01:04:04Guest:He was just funny.

01:04:05Marc:Well, I think that comes from this sort of weird kind of active dialogue that in Judaism, there's this constant sort of debating about things.

01:04:13Marc:There's sort of a more kind of, you know, like it's like, what did God mean by this?

01:04:18Marc:Catholics, it's very clear.

01:04:20Marc:It's all pretty laid out.

01:04:21Marc:God meant this.

01:04:22Marc:But rabbis are like, well, maybe we should look at this a different way.

01:04:25Marc:Maybe this means it.

01:04:26Marc:And it's a constant discussion that led to that.

01:04:29Guest:was andy kaufman around when you were no no no that there's a there's a man i had to move in here though for three hours once really yeah well man i'll tell you he was uh there there's a guy who you know that that was art because nobody did like when i saw albert i went on man i never saw that before yeah and i and i finally got to know albert you know and and um and i went to talk my window he was working in brooks yeah um at the university of pittsburgh and i was

01:04:56Guest:He just used to kill me.

01:04:58Guest:And then when I saw Andy Kaufman work, I went, oh, man, you know, to have that kind of imagination and say, I'm going to bend this whole thing and commitment, you know, it's just really fun to watch.

01:05:11Marc:Yeah, sometimes it's like it makes you think like, you know, there's...

01:05:14Marc:there's so many where I can go anywhere with this.

01:05:17Marc:That was the amazing thing about comedy.

01:05:18Marc:It's like, you can stand up there and do whatever you want.

01:05:21Marc:You know, the idea is you should get laughs, but really no one's going to bother you for the first few times.

01:05:27Marc:Right.

01:05:28Marc:So nobody's going to bother you.

01:05:29Marc:So you do what you got to do to figure out what it is you do up there and then take advantage of it.

01:05:34Marc:I mean, that was one of the appealing things to me.

01:05:35Marc:It's like, I'm just, I just, all I knew was I wanted to say things and I thought it was funny and I had, you know, I had things to say.

01:05:42Marc:Yeah.

01:05:43Marc:And that was the only thing.

01:05:44Marc:The only real rule is you're supposed to make people laugh, but even that is negotiable depending on how fucking interesting you are.

01:05:50Marc:Yeah.

01:05:51Marc:You know?

01:05:52Marc:Yeah.

01:05:52Marc:Well, when did the acting thing start?

01:05:53Guest:How did that break out?

01:05:54Guest:Well, that was first, really.

01:05:55Guest:That was kind of what I was doing.

01:05:57Guest:I'd do a play, but I just always loved funny, and my buddies were funny, or being funny, or writing funny, or thinking funny, or seeing a funny thing.

01:06:05Guest:But I thought, well, I'm going to try and act, or kind of mumble under your breath.

01:06:09Guest:But that's what you were here for.

01:06:10Guest:Yeah.

01:06:10Guest:Yeah, but I was really – but I was focused.

01:06:12Guest:I was really – yeah, so basically when I was going to go to New York, I thought, well, I'm going to – I had done a crummy, stupid little review for $25 a show in Pittsburgh, and I was like the funny guy in the song and dance thing with these little dinner theater thing where you're in the – literally, the guy's feet are right there in front of you, and you hear things like –

01:06:35Guest:You're right being in the middle of some girl singing and you come out and stand behind her and do a funny thing.

01:06:40Guest:But underneath it, you hear things like, I don't have Thousand Island.

01:06:44Guest:You brought me Thousand Island.

01:06:48Guest:Yeah.

01:06:48Guest:It's not what I meant, Joyce.

01:06:50Marc:It's not what I meant.

01:06:51Guest:No, I didn't say that.

01:06:52Guest:That's not how you started.

01:06:53Guest:Well, I'm leaving.

01:06:54Guest:Oh, shit.

01:06:55Guest:You're here.

01:06:56Guest:Hi, everybody.

01:06:57Guest:We're here tonight.

01:06:58Yeah.

01:06:58Guest:Hey, a lot of shows on Broadway start with the word hey.

01:07:04Guest:Hey, everybody.

01:07:07Guest:So you did what?

01:07:08Guest:So you did some TV.

01:07:09Guest:Yeah, then I came out and I got a gig because what happened was Robert Klein saw me work.

01:07:17Guest:And simultaneously, I had a friend who had written on Blazing Saddles, a really nice guy named Norman Steinberg, a very generous dude.

01:07:27Guest:He said, come on down and meet me.

01:07:29Guest:He said, we'll talk.

01:07:30Guest:And I had a nice meeting in his office.

01:07:31Guest:Nothing happened.

01:07:32Guest:He said, yeah, he was nice to talk.

01:07:34Guest:Some young guy came out here.

01:07:37Guest:Yeah.

01:07:37Guest:so we did that and then he kind of remembered me and said um hey there's this part of a bailiff you got one line do you want to kind of read for it i went sure so i came down and i kind of got that one little line on some show he was doing i forget what he was doing some sitcom yeah and simultaneously klein saw me um work yeah he was auditioning for this little variety show he was going to do and um

01:07:59Guest:and I got hired and so we did that and then another guy I knew said hey come on down and audition I don't think you're going to get it but audition for this Norman Lear show and I auditioned for it and got it and then midway through doing it the show they made it a two parter and then they invited me back to do another show and then they wrote me a deal saying they held me for like a year and then everything dried up for like a year and a half like nothing happened

01:08:28Guest:It didn't go anywhere, but you were locked in.

01:08:29Guest:Yeah, I was locked in, so I couldn't do it.

01:08:31Guest:So I was going to the club.

01:08:32Guest:It was great for me.

01:08:33Guest:Yeah, then I was really into it.

01:08:35Guest:Then I thought, this is awesome.

01:08:37Guest:I'm going to go work every night.

01:08:39Marc:It feels good, man.

01:08:40Marc:Get your chops, getting the laughs.

01:08:44Marc:So you got some money.

01:08:46Marc:Got a little bit of money.

01:08:47Marc:And then you were like, fuck it.

01:08:48Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:08:49Marc:I can wait on this.

01:08:50Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:08:51Guest:And then no jobs came, the money dried up, and then I started doing... But you were fucking funny.

01:08:56Guest:Yeah, and I was getting good.

01:08:58Guest:I was getting good.

01:08:58Guest:I was really working on it, and I was focused on it, and I was really loving it.

01:09:02Guest:And then, you know what, it's like you get to...

01:09:04Guest:Pain, it's good for comedy.

01:09:06Marc:I don't know what it is, man.

01:09:08Guest:Are you a believer when people say, well, it's all based on pain, isn't it?

01:09:11Guest:I mean, I guess it is if you want to be technical about it.

01:09:14Marc:After talking to hundreds of people and having that romantic idea about the struggle and the pain and everything else, I don't know if it's all about that.

01:09:23Marc:It's an innate need to sort of...

01:09:28Marc:Sum things up and get a reaction, certainly.

01:09:31Marc:I don't know.

01:09:32Marc:I've met fairly well-adjusted funny people.

01:09:34Marc:Yeah.

01:09:35Marc:And that kind of shatters me.

01:09:36Marc:And I take more so now, don't you?

01:09:37Marc:Oh, the guys that come out of Sketch?

01:09:38Marc:Yeah.

01:09:39Marc:They're team players.

01:09:40Marc:Yeah.

01:09:41Marc:We're all like, it's a group effort, and we all work together, and it's fun.

01:09:45Marc:I'm like, what the fuck is that?

01:09:46Guest:yeah i know because comics like we're we're loners we you know we're in our apartment crying and yeah and writing and sleeping on the floor you know i worked with hater i did this um he's hilarious oh the dude's on and a sweetheart and a nicest guy yeah and we were talking about that you know because um we i did this movie that uh larry david is doing this movie that's an improvised movie uh-huh and hater and i are kind of partners in this thing

01:10:12Guest:It's crazy what he can do voice-wise.

01:10:15Guest:We were talking about that, and I said, man, people are so nice now.

01:10:19Guest:It's so refreshing.

01:10:20Guest:He said, this cast is ridiculously nice, and I remember hanging around in those worlds, and it was kind of brutal, very competitive and insecure.

01:10:28Marc:I just don't think that once you get to a certain level, it seems, with show business, unfortunately,

01:10:33Marc:And I think that back in the day, they were more forgiving in that like, well, there's only five guys that are really good at this.

01:10:41Marc:And if one of them is an asshole and can't control himself, we're just going to have to manage that.

01:10:46Marc:Get him out of his trailer when necessary.

01:10:48Marc:But I just think now it's like people don't tolerate that shit anymore.

01:10:52Marc:Yeah, right.

01:10:52Marc:And everybody's very diplomatic and nobody's going to say shitty things about people.

01:10:56Marc:You don't want to be the negative guy.

01:10:58Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:58Marc:Because people don't want to be around it.

01:11:00Marc:Even if you're talented, they're like, ugh.

01:11:01Marc:God.

01:11:02Marc:Right.

01:11:02Marc:It's true.

01:11:02Marc:How much of this shit do we got to tell you?

01:11:04Marc:Is this really worth it?

01:11:06Marc:Exactly.

01:11:06Marc:Is there another funny guy that we can use that isn't going to shit on everything?

01:11:10Marc:Yeah.

01:11:10Guest:And there probably is actually somewhere.

01:11:12Marc:It's a problem, right?

01:11:13Guest:Yeah.

01:11:14Marc:But when did the first film come?

01:11:15Guest:I was doing a show, a television series.

01:11:20Guest:I had two series that did not get picked up and it was like somebody lifted a house off my chest.

01:11:25Guest:I was so happy.

01:11:27Yeah.

01:11:27Guest:And, you know, that sounds crazy and ungrateful, but I just couldn't do it.

01:11:31Guest:I thought, oh, man, I see where this is going.

01:11:33Guest:And this is going to unfunny land.

01:11:35Guest:And I'm going to be that guy in that stupid show.

01:11:39Guest:And, you know, I got to do it every week.

01:11:41Guest:You felt it.

01:11:41Guest:Yeah.

01:11:42Guest:And it smelled like death.

01:11:43Guest:And I thought, oh, I got to.

01:11:44Guest:And when they said, yeah, I got some bad news.

01:11:46Guest:And I'm going, yeah.

01:11:47Guest:and they go when you get picked up i'm telling you man i could have flown i was so happy what the jokes were bad and you just said you know and actually a couple of them were kind of kind of funny but i thought oh man this is you know i could see that they were kind of asking me to pull back and you know maybe you wouldn't you know you know what i mean they didn't want you to really go out there yeah and so uh and at the time i was really irreverent you know and um they they uh uh so so what happened was i was doing this show was uh

01:12:14Guest:lowell gans directing who was a great right great comedy writer started on the tony randall show i'll tell you something about that too i did the tony randall show for two episodes he had a sitcom he had a few i guess yeah oh yeah an odd couple yeah but some more yeah this is a really well written really funny show really kind of smart you know out of the mtm people

01:12:33Guest:And I got this audition to play this guy.

01:12:36Guest:And I had a real clear take on it.

01:12:39Guest:I always worked out of a kind of, I didn't know how to do it.

01:12:43Guest:I still don't know how to do it any other way.

01:12:44Guest:I said, what's the character?

01:12:46Guest:And then I attack it that way.

01:12:48Guest:So I created this guy, and it was good.

01:12:50Guest:And then they said, let's make this a two-parter.

01:12:53Guest:And I watched Tony Randall work.

01:12:56Guest:who was who ran a set like it was like business yeah and i'm telling you what and i was kind of you know loose and i'd improvise a little bit even though i didn't have to improvise much this script was really funny the lines were the jokes were good and solid and but my timing was offbeat you know because the guy was dense or i played him really really dense right timing got you know you had to adjust for it yeah yeah yeah yeah you know i mean there's that rhythm and and then you had to kind of mine was just a beat off you know right and so

01:13:23Guest:He watched, and he was all about structure, and it works like this, and it works like this.

01:13:28Guest:He was so methodical and meticulous.

01:13:32Guest:I've learned from everybody.

01:13:33Guest:Honestly, I'm not being Pollyannish about this.

01:13:36Guest:I really learned from almost everybody I work with.

01:13:38Guest:He was so not from my world, and I learned so much watching him.

01:13:43Guest:I like watching Duvall.

01:13:44Guest:When I work with Duvall, I sit there and I watch what he does.

01:13:46Guest:but tony randall was so structured and so like prompt and so disciplined about where the timing was where the beat was how it was staged how it was blocked and that was really great education because i even though i admired those kind of guys i wasn't that guy i was more let's just let's free wheel it wing it man yeah right right right and which is great and awesome but this was really interesting so it taught you something

01:14:12Marc:It was that weird lesson where you're sort of like, when you're on a set and you're like, oh, there's a system here.

01:14:20Marc:You can structure this.

01:14:23Marc:It's weird when you realize, like, this kind of is a business.

01:14:26Marc:Yeah, totally.

01:14:29Marc:And if I keep winging it and they keep doing takes, I'm not going to be in this business at all.

01:14:33Guest:Yeah, which is weird because, you know, I'm sure you like to, you know, stuff is going to come to you when it comes to you.

01:14:39Guest:You're smart.

01:14:40Marc:I have not had a lot of opportunity in that area, you know.

01:14:43Guest:But even when I, you know, if you go do a show, a talk show, you know, you notice how you have to go, and I've seen you do it, where you say,

01:14:51Guest:I know I gotta get that out.

01:14:54Guest:I gotta get that out, and I gotta do it right, and it can't look... It's an enormous amount of work.

01:14:59Marc:Yeah, I do it with Conan.

01:15:01Marc:I built a relationship with him over the years.

01:15:03Marc:Which is great, because now he knows you to sit back and go, no, I can trust this guy, I know what he's gonna do.

01:15:07Marc:Right, exactly.

01:15:08Marc:And then usually, if it gets weird, I'm happy about it.

01:15:11Marc:I provide a service for him.

01:15:14Marc:I can take a couple of hits from him.

01:15:16Marc:Because he's weirdly polite and always self-effacing, but occasionally I'll get out there and he'll be like, what?

01:15:21Marc:!

01:15:21Marc:yeah and then yeah okay this so this is going a different place yeah yeah yeah it's i you know it's fun it's fun there's more guys are doing it that way where like you know kimmel did it that way and found it that way where you used to be like you know you produce the out of a segment yeah what are the stories where we going all right that's a good one that's no good whatever yeah but like when i went on when i did fallon and we hadn't talked about i hadn't talked to a segment producer really yeah and and i'm like it's like half hour before the show and i'm like are we going to go over the things on my stories and

01:15:50Marc:in my bits and he's like no no jimmy just wants to talk to you i'm like but that's unheard of just talk on a talk show wow did you dig it yeah it was great yeah yeah because it was like this is fucking real yeah yeah you know might not work might work right and conan still prepares a lot but lately you know we get way off yeah and i think at the last one i did i'm like i guess i'm not going to talk about the boat without any context whatsoever right but people who watch they don't know that shit

01:16:17Marc:No matter how smart people are, this is the interesting thing.

01:16:19Marc:When the writer's strike happened, I thought, well, finally America's going to realize that their favorite comedic actors are really just puppets.

01:16:28Marc:Yeah.

01:16:28Marc:A writing staff.

01:16:29Marc:Yeah, right.

01:16:30Marc:They ain't fucking real.

01:16:31Marc:They still don't know.

01:16:32Marc:They still believe, like, that guy's writing all that.

01:16:35Marc:Yeah, right.

01:16:37Marc:That Bill Maher makes up everything the morning of.

01:16:39Marc:Yeah.

01:16:40Marc:It's unbelievable.

01:16:41Marc:I guess that's part of the great illusion of it all.

01:16:44Marc:But let's get to the fucking movie star shit.

01:16:47Guest:So then I did.

01:16:48Guest:So I'm doing this thing, this television show.

01:16:49Guest:If you don't mind.

01:16:50Guest:No, no.

01:16:50Guest:And the guy goes, hey, man, you know, he went to Ron Howard and said, I'm working with this guy.

01:16:56Guest:He's really funny.

01:16:57Guest:And I know you have that movie.

01:17:00Guest:You ought to see him.

01:17:01Guest:So there's a night shift.

01:17:02Guest:So I went over to...

01:17:04Guest:and i had already started i think i shot a little short that i wanted to put together because i was already thinking i want to direct these things or write my own stuff and i got very lazy about that to be honest with you um now not so much but anyway so i go down and i audition for this movie and it goes well and uh they say okay you got to come back and i think there were a ton of auditions i forget how many i went through six or something like for night shift yeah it kept coming back kept coming back and they were trying to brutal right it was brutal and it was really nerve-wracking

01:17:34Guest:And then it happened, and I got it, and then that spawned a couple other things.

01:17:39Guest:And they wanted me to do Splash after that, which was... I never saw all of it.

01:17:43Guest:I'm sure it was very good.

01:17:44Guest:And the reason I didn't do it was I wanted to lay down something...

01:17:49Guest:Like, I guess the way people used to put albums together or something.

01:17:52Guest:Right.

01:17:52Guest:You know, I wanted to lay down something, and I said, no, no, I want to move over in this direction.

01:17:57Guest:I did Mr. Mom, and I said, because... That was huge.

01:18:00Guest:Yeah, it was huge.

01:18:00Guest:And, you know, that's funny, because he was really something, man.

01:18:04Guest:He was really funny.

01:18:08Guest:I read that thing, and I'm sitting in my house out in the valley, and I read it, and it got to one point, and I went...

01:18:15Guest:I laughed out loud, and I saw it.

01:18:18Guest:And then he hit another one, and I went, oh, man.

01:18:20Guest:And I said, you know, this thing might really work.

01:18:22Guest:I've got to go meet this guy.

01:18:24Guest:So instead of doing Splash, where I thought I'm going to be kind of in the same kind of world, I don't want to do that.

01:18:30Guest:I want to move over to this world.

01:18:31Guest:The same kind of world as Night Shift?

01:18:32Guest:Yeah.

01:18:32Guest:Sort of broad comedy?

01:18:34Guest:Yeah, I wanted to move over and then say, at least I'll lay down something where I got a little bit of room here.

01:18:38Guest:I can go here or here or here.

01:18:40Guest:And then I moved and I did something totally different after that.

01:18:44Marc:So your fear was to be typecast as a wacky leading man?

01:18:47Guest:Yes, or the glib young boy.

01:18:49Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:18:50Guest:And that's exactly what would have happened.

01:18:54Guest:Because then you can do well and make a lot of dough, but you're kind of fucked up.

01:18:57Marc:You're in that same situation that you're afraid of with that sitcom, which is like, these are your choices.

01:19:03Marc:Yeah.

01:19:03Marc:They're going to pay you real well to repeat that thing you do.

01:19:07Marc:Yes.

01:19:07Marc:You know, go, come on, clown.

01:19:09Marc:Yeah.

01:19:10Marc:Yeah.

01:19:10Marc:Right.

01:19:11Guest:Yeah.

01:19:12Guest:And I, you know, it can be, you know, you should, I should be so lucky, right?

01:19:18Guest:I mean, you know, it had nothing to do with me not being grateful or excited.

01:19:23Guest:I thought, I want to go, you know, I'm going to go for the whole thing here.

01:19:26Guest:And yeah.

01:19:27Marc:and hopefully it works you know but beetlejuice was like fucking like mr mom was was huge i mean you know like you know people still talk about it yeah if you bring it up it became part of the nomenclature actually yeah that word yeah he's a mr moment right and then and then beetlejuice was just fucking out of left field i mean that like when you got it when how did you meet tim burton and what was that thing like because he was out there right yeah how it happened was geffen came and said um

01:19:52Guest:i want you to meet this guy uh so you you were already huge if geffen's coming and you know asking you to meet team yeah but you were like a major property yeah probably i guess so yeah and he goes um i go okay and i they because because tim had done this thing called frank and we need the people really took note uh took notice of and yeah and they said he's a this guy's got something he's a comer and right and then he created something else i forget i did oh he did peeweed so i meet him

01:20:20Guest:And I didn't really understand what he was talking about.

01:20:23Guest:I didn't understand what the concept.

01:20:24Guest:He was trying to explain the character he had thought of, and he had this script that a guy gave him, but he said, and he couldn't really describe the guy.

01:20:32Guest:And so it was a fine meeting, and I told David, and somebody else said, you know, I don't know how to do this, and I don't know what it is.

01:20:38Guest:He was a really nice guy, but I really don't know how to do it.

01:20:41Guest:And he said, no, no, no, just hang in there.

01:20:43Guest:And he talked me into meeting him again, or somebody did.

01:20:46Guest:So he said, okay.

01:20:47Guest:I went and met him again.

01:20:49Guest:Still didn't get it.

01:20:50Guest:Not that he was... I just went, I don't get what... It was so not what it... Well, it is what... I'm sure it ended up in what Tim had in his head, basically.

01:21:00Guest:But originally the guy, he described... He had a little sketch that he... It was kind of like some of his cowboy sketches or something.

01:21:07Guest:He had a conceit of the thing, but it wasn't even a guy.

01:21:11Guest:It was like a concept of something.

01:21:12Guest:So after two, I think two meetings or three meetings or something, I said, I really like this guy.

01:21:17Guest:You know, he's...

01:21:18Guest:really imaginative but I don't know and then he said something in the one meeting that made me that took hold and it was something like you know he probably lives in all time he's from no time he's from every time he's lived in all time time periods or something and I don't know why that stuck with me but I thought you know maybe I should think about this so I said to him okay you know what let me at least go home and think about it we were in a Mexican restaurant down on Lincoln Boulevard down Santa Monica and

01:21:48Guest:So I called, I had this idea, and I called the wardrobe department, I think at, I forget what studio, and I said, hey, would you do me a favor?

01:21:56Guest:Could I get clothes from every time period, all kind of different things?

01:22:01Guest:And I got a rack of them, and I brought them to the house.

01:22:06Guest:And he said, you know, he gave me another hint of he kind of, he lives in some, he must have said something that made me get this idea of mold, you know.

01:22:17Guest:So I'm home by myself and I'm thinking about this and I'm,

01:22:24Guest:I start to do this walk and this voice, and I thought, ah, you know what?

01:22:27Guest:I'd like to have teeth.

01:22:28Guest:Like, you can't tell, but the teeth were not only fucked up, they were just a tiny bit larger.

01:22:33Guest:I wanted to put these things in, and they were just a tiny, because there was something about him being...

01:22:39Guest:goofy, that made it even more dangerous.

01:22:42Guest:If you run into some guy who's nuts and then he's kind of goofy too, that's really scary.

01:22:48Guest:I wanted him to be kind of scary and dangerous but funny and I thought, you know what, I'm going to just pull everything out here.

01:22:56Guest:What I like about Marty Short is

01:22:58Guest:You could actually look at Marty sometime and go, he's so, not old-fashioned, he's like an old-time big kind of show, but it so works, his silliness so works.

01:23:07Guest:Yeah, he's a one-man show.

01:23:09Guest:Yeah.

01:23:09Guest:It's like- It's so great.

01:23:10Marc:The history of show business.

01:23:12Marc:Yeah.

01:23:13Marc:Every time he opens his mouth.

01:23:14Guest:Yeah.

01:23:15Guest:So I thought, well, I'm going to go full out.

01:23:17Guest:So I'm walking around my house, and I said, I'm going to create a walk and a thing.

01:23:19Guest:And I was looking at these different pieces, and I put that little thing that I thought it was really kind of, that hat that said guide on it.

01:23:27Guest:I thought, ooh, this is kind of out there.

01:23:29Guest:You know, guide to what?

01:23:32Guest:So that was all you.

01:23:33Guest:That was.

01:23:34Guest:And then I talked to him, and I said, I want hair.

01:23:35Guest:I said, this guy.

01:23:36Guest:I said, I'm going to start here.

01:23:38Guest:Did you ever see that thing Mel Brooks used to do where he says, huh?

01:23:42Guest:It was really a funny bit he used to ever say.

01:23:44Guest:Ladies and gentlemen, he's a singer.

01:23:47Guest:He says, dancing in the dark.

01:23:48Guest:But he starts so high, he's got nowhere to go.

01:23:51Guest:Dancing in the dark.

01:23:52Guest:And then that's because the song goes up.

01:23:53Guest:And he used to go, oh, fuck, I started too high.

01:23:57Guest:I can't go up higher than that.

01:23:59Guest:So I said, I'm going to go up at that level.

01:24:01Guest:Yeah.

01:24:01Guest:And I'm going up higher and I'm never coming off of it.

01:24:04Guest:And I don't know if it's going to work or not.

01:24:06Guest:Because Tim and I kind of discussed it, and then I said, he should be like, every day, you know, he gets up and sticks his hand in a socket and just goes, poof, and he just works.

01:24:16Guest:So I said, let's make hair that sticks out here.

01:24:19Guest:And then this great V-Neal, this great makeup artist and I started putting together mold.

01:24:24Guest:I said, I want mold down my neck.

01:24:26Guest:We had never done it.

01:24:27Guest:I'd never done it until the first day.

01:24:28Guest:I didn't know if it was going to work.

01:24:29Guest:And then I showed up on the set, and this is really interesting.

01:24:33Guest:The crew saw me.

01:24:35Guest:And I have no idea why, because they didn't know what I was going to do, and I wasn't even sure what I was going to do was going to work.

01:24:40Guest:And they started going, juice, juice, juice, juice, juice.

01:24:43Guest:It was this really funny thing.

01:24:44Guest:And I just fully committed.

01:24:45Guest:I said, I'm going to be – this is going to die or this is going to work.

01:24:48Guest:And Tim's so great, because when he saw it, he went –

01:24:51Guest:yes he says that that that he said let's do that and let's do that I mean he had some general obviously ideas about but the whole conceit or the look and then when I walked in I saw the set and the world and then he had explained to me he said okay your head's gonna shrink and then it's gonna spin around and I said

01:25:08Guest:Okay, now I get what this guy's doing.

01:25:10Guest:Yeah.

01:25:11Guest:I get it.

01:25:11Guest:I mean, I started to really get it, but then I went, oh, man, this is out there.

01:25:15Guest:Yeah.

01:25:15Guest:And then it was just huge.

01:25:17Guest:It fucking rocked.

01:25:18Guest:It rocked.

01:25:19Guest:And then it was so fun.

01:25:20Guest:And there was nothing ever been that's like it.

01:25:23Guest:There's just nothing comparable.

01:25:25Guest:Right, right, right.

01:25:26Marc:You know, I mean, I'm not talking about me.

01:25:27Marc:I'm talking about what he did.

01:25:29Marc:And just to deal with a guy at that kind of creativity that he's his own thing.

01:25:33Marc:Yeah.

01:25:33Marc:And that was really sort of the beginning of it.

01:25:35Marc:Yeah.

01:25:36Marc:And that sort of blossomed into whatever he becomes.

01:25:39Marc:Yes.

01:25:39Marc:Right.

01:25:40Marc:He's a visionary.

01:25:40Marc:He totally is.

01:25:42Marc:Yeah.

01:25:42Marc:Totally is.

01:25:43Marc:But that's a so that that that thing killed.

01:25:45Marc:Right.

01:25:46Guest:Yeah.

01:25:47Guest:And then he comes, says, hey, a little bit of time goes in.

01:25:49Guest:He goes, he says, I want to talk to you about something.

01:25:53Guest:And this was gutsy on his part.

01:25:56Guest:He said, I'm doing Batman.

01:25:58Guest:And he goes, would you read the script?

01:26:01Guest:He said, I don't want to talk about it too much, but just read it.

01:26:03Guest:And then I want to talk to you after.

01:26:05Guest:So I'm reading it.

01:26:06Guest:And I go.

01:26:06Guest:And even I thought... I didn't know a concept of what that... Because I didn't really... I was familiar with the... The TV show?

01:26:13Guest:Yeah, I was familiar with the TV show, but I didn't know the whole comic, you know, the pulpy part of it.

01:26:17Guest:The nerd world?

01:26:18Guest:Yeah.

01:26:19Guest:Yeah.

01:26:19Guest:But here's what he did.

01:26:20Guest:He said, but read this one, which was the Frank Miller thing.

01:26:23Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:26:24Guest:And which was... Dark Knight Returns?

01:26:26Marc:Yeah.

01:26:26Guest:And I went, whoa.

01:26:28Guest:This is interesting.

01:26:29Guest:The look of it and the colors and the thing.

01:26:31Guest:So I went around and I went, well, I'm not... This ain't going to work, but because I read it and I said...

01:26:35Guest:yeah let's go have coffee so we're sitting there talking i go um let me just talk to you and i think this is gonna be over 10 15 minutes he's gonna go well i don't know about that and everything i said his head was nodding like this and what was it what was it he's ridiculously depressed yeah he's vigilante yeah um

01:26:54Guest:he's got this issue so obvious you know and then and then and that's what and he but i thought yeah that's interesting if you're thinking that that's an actor but nobody's gonna make that yeah right and then he goes yeah that's what i want to do it's exactly what i want to do and i thought oh really and i go whoa dude and then i said okay well whatever let me know yeah and then um then that started happening and we started doing that and he just had such a clear take and he that really changed everything if you look at the colors of those kind of big movies yeah yeah it was like an opera

01:27:22Marc:Like an opera.

01:27:23Marc:Yeah.

01:27:23Marc:And so your decision to build the character out from that pain... Yeah.

01:27:29Marc:And then sort of manifest it with... You're naturally sort of... But you know what you'll get?

01:27:34Guest:This is the truth.

01:27:36Guest:I've seen bits of... The guy who's doing them now, Chris Nolan...

01:27:40Guest:I just watched it.

01:27:42Guest:He's so talented.

01:27:43Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:27:43Guest:It's crazy.

01:27:44Guest:And the actor's so talented.

01:27:49Guest:Christian Bale.

01:27:50Guest:Yeah.

01:27:51Guest:And if you look at all that stuff, you go, it's so good.

01:27:55Guest:But I say that like I've seen them.

01:27:57Guest:And I actually haven't because I didn't even see much of the second one I did.

01:28:00Guest:But, you know, you look at where he went, which is exactly what I wanted to do when I was having meetings about the third one.

01:28:07Guest:I said, you want to see how this guy started?

01:28:09Guest:Yeah.

01:28:10Guest:We got a chance here to fix whatever we kind of maybe went off.

01:28:14Guest:This could be brilliant.

01:28:17Guest:Didn't want to do it, so I didn't want to do it.

01:28:19Guest:No, Tim didn't?

01:28:20Guest:No, no, Tim was out.

01:28:21Guest:This was a new director.

01:28:24Marc:Schumacher.

01:28:24Marc:Yeah, and I could see that was going south.

01:28:27Marc:He didn't want to commit to the character you had built.

01:28:30Marc:Well, I think, honestly, and I'm saying this really, you were the best Batman.

01:28:33Marc:Oh, thanks.

01:28:33Marc:Yeah, because there was some part of your natural balance

01:28:38Marc:There was no comedy to it, but there's an instinct that you have.

01:28:43Marc:You got it.

01:28:44Guest:That's what I was going to say to you.

01:28:45Guest:I was going to say, you'll get this, because I saw a little bit on the plane the other day, and it's really good.

01:28:51Guest:The new one.

01:28:52Guest:Yeah.

01:28:54Guest:Yeah.

01:28:54Guest:it's not that I wanted to be funny.

01:28:57Guest:I just thought, it's not interesting if the guy is just really this thing all the time.

01:29:01Guest:You know, it's like there's no place to go.

01:29:03Guest:Like, as an example, and Tim was so good about it, I said, there's that scene where I have her over for dinner and I'm thinking, I remember Tim saying, this guy's got a lot on his plate.

01:29:13Guest:And I went, oh, yeah.

01:29:14Guest:So I started working for that.

01:29:15Guest:I thought, wow, what's it like when you have a lot on your plate and you happen to be this guy and you saw your parents killed?

01:29:19Guest:Yeah.

01:29:19Guest:So that scene where I invite her over to the dinner and I said, hey, you know what we ought to do here?

01:29:23Guest:I'm going to sit here and she should sit all the way so we can see how huge, how lonely this fucking thing is.

01:29:29Marc:It's like Citizen Kane.

01:29:31Marc:Yeah.

01:29:31Marc:Like when the table keeps growing.

01:29:32Marc:Yeah.

01:29:33Marc:The different show.

01:29:33Marc:Oh, I didn't even think that, right?

01:29:35Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:35Guest:So I said, there's a line and I said, hey, how about if I say this?

01:29:38Guest:And he was great.

01:29:38Guest:He said, that's a great idea.

01:29:40Guest:I said, she said, this is a great room or whatever she says.

01:29:42Guest:And I go, yeah.

01:29:43Guest:And I go, and I look around and I go, I don't think I've ever been in this room before.

01:29:48Guest:Yeah.

01:29:48Guest:You know what I mean?

01:29:49Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:49Guest:Like you laughing right there.

01:29:50Guest:Right, right, right.

01:29:51Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:29:52Guest:And that made it weirdly made all the other shit even better, even darker.

01:29:56Guest:It goes, ooh, that guy's kind of off.

01:29:58Guest:I mean, he's off.

01:29:58Guest:Or the whole hanging thing like was not in it.

01:30:00Guest:And I said, he had a hang like a bat.

01:30:02Guest:Like he can't go to sleep until he hangs.

01:30:03Guest:Right.

01:30:04Marc:you know yeah because he's in it too yeah he's got to be in the character that he's playing totally he's playing a character totally well that was fucking genius now so when you okay so now you know after that second batman you you know you'd already done like some other ones like pacific heights you're playing all these different roles you can do a romantic comedy you can do a killer you can do a hard guy you can do an action hero you got you did exactly what you wanted to do yeah

01:30:28Marc:You didn't pigeonhole yourself.

01:30:30Marc:Right.

01:30:30Marc:And you had a fairly big run with all this stuff.

01:30:33Marc:But do you have any regrets about not doing the third Batman?

01:30:37Guest:There was only one time where I wanted to, I occasionally will buy a piece of real estate and maybe sell it or something like that.

01:30:46Guest:And there was this opportunity that came up and I went, oh man, I'd like to do that.

01:30:49Guest:and i didn't have the bread and i thought that i i thought about this that's about the only time where i went that would have been nice i wouldn't even thought about that you know but but honestly besides that batman would have bought me that property yeah exactly but you know honestly it never really changed my lifestyle has been the same as it would have been there's not really nothing i mean you know barring i mean i could imagine some things but but no i thought and you know now you know now people love the you know actors and people like you guys all go

01:31:16Guest:That was the smartest thing you could have ever done is it got out when the getting was good.

01:31:21Guest:The bread would have been good.

01:31:23Guest:But no, no, no.

01:31:25Guest:That was definitely the time to get on out of there.

01:31:27Guest:But that said, the little I've seen of those three that he's done are really, really, really good.

01:31:33Guest:So then, you know, then I think it got to me, I went through a period of, you know, doing kind of good stuff.

01:31:38Guest:I mean, I like what's going on now, but for a long time, you don't have that thing where you're on stage and you, even though you go, yeah, this is a good bit, good piece.

01:31:47Guest:Yeah.

01:31:47Guest:Doing it really well.

01:31:48Guest:Yeah.

01:31:48Guest:still there gets to be that point at least I did with me where you go you're hearing your voice yeah and it sounds inauthentic to you that's the worst that's the worst where you're kind of beside yourself yes I'm so glad to hear you say that because I literally used to have that experience where I'd be literally outside myself and I'd get scared for a minute because it was kind of psychotic and I go whoa we've got to get back yeah yeah you can't leave that guy there yeah

01:32:11Marc:Come back and get me.

01:32:13Marc:He's disappointing you, but you need him.

01:32:16Marc:Boy, am I relieved to hear you say that.

01:32:18Marc:Oh, it's the worst.

01:32:19Marc:It's the worst.

01:32:20Marc:I've talked about it before where there was one time where I was bombing so bad that I literally left my body.

01:32:26Marc:I was like, I'm going to watch it from backstage.

01:32:28Marc:I'm going to meet you back there.

01:32:29Marc:I can't do this.

01:32:31Marc:It's crazy, isn't it?

01:32:32Marc:But it's a real feeling where you're literally outside of yourself and you hear yourself talking.

01:32:37Marc:You're like, oh my fucking God.

01:32:39Marc:Shut that guy up.

01:32:41Marc:He doesn't know what else to do right now.

01:32:43Marc:Man, that is horrible.

01:32:44Marc:So if you feel that with a movie.

01:32:46Guest:Yeah, you started doing it.

01:32:48Guest:I thought, oh, boy, this is, you know.

01:32:49Guest:And then I wanted to, I said, you know, I'm going to go for really, really good stuff.

01:32:53Guest:And then sometimes really good stuff will come around.

01:32:55Guest:But then when it didn't, I thought, well, okay, then maybe I'll try that.

01:32:59Guest:And then it wouldn't be so good.

01:33:00Guest:And I was right.

01:33:01Guest:The intentions were right.

01:33:02Guest:Let's go for stuff that, you know, there's no reason why I shouldn't be getting really, really the best writing, the best written scripts and stuff.

01:33:07Guest:Yeah.

01:33:08Guest:But I may have set up a time where I set myself up where I went, well, because the truth is I don't think anyone knew what to do.

01:33:14Guest:That sounds kind of arrogant.

01:33:16Marc:But you were being stubborn, so your people didn't know.

01:33:18Guest:Yeah, and I think people didn't know what to do with me.

01:33:22Guest:That sounds kind of like, oh, I'm an artist.

01:33:24Guest:But honestly, I think in fairness to everyone, they kind of went, well, I'm not sure.

01:33:28Guest:People are saying don't do Pacific Heights.

01:33:31Marc:Yeah.

01:33:31Marc:That was a pretty compelling business.

01:33:34Marc:I mean, that was the weird killer stalker guy.

01:33:36Marc:Yeah, man.

01:33:36Guest:And also it was John Schlesinger, a major filmmaker.

01:33:38Guest:He's great, man.

01:33:39Marc:He's great.

01:33:40Marc:I mean, he did Marathon Man and Falcon and the Snowman later.

01:33:43Marc:He's good.

01:33:44Marc:British guy, right?

01:33:45Marc:Did Midnight Cowboy.

01:33:45Marc:Midnight Cowboy, right.

01:33:46Guest:I mean, you want to be in business with that guy.

01:33:48Marc:I thought it was frightening.

01:33:51Marc:It is.

01:33:52Marc:It's a really... But it's one of those things where it's like, that's Batman and the funny man, and now he's all... What have they done to him?

01:33:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:34:00Guest:Do you think that fucked you?

01:34:01Guest:I don't know.

01:34:02Guest:I think it got a little confusing for a long time, and then you go, okay, I've got to go out and find something.

01:34:09Guest:But I didn't want to start doing stuff that I kind of felt like I already did before.

01:34:12Guest:And I'm not particularly...

01:34:17Guest:uh good trait where i figure you know it's like inviting yourself to a party or something i always felt like man if i'm in a movie every like six years people are pretty bored of their minds i mean that's an exaggeration but i just think you know people get really bored of this guy that look that face that thing you know yeah you know but you know i obviously i'm way overly sensitive about it but

01:34:40Guest:So I think for a while I kind of did that.

01:34:42Guest:Now I'm kind of re-interested and also... Re-engaging?

01:34:47Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:34:47Guest:Keaton's back?

01:34:48Guest:No, I don't know about that, but I mean, I like it a lot.

01:34:51Guest:Like, doing this thing with Larry was fun, and I did this thing called Penthouse North, which is another bad guy, and then I'm doing this thing, RoboCop, with a guy, probably intellectually the smartest director I ever worked with.

01:35:02Guest:It's got Jose Padilla.

01:35:03Guest:Yeah.

01:35:04Guest:Did you ever see Elite Squad?

01:35:06Guest:Uh-uh.

01:35:06Guest:It's a Brazilian movie?

01:35:07Guest:Uh-uh.

01:35:08Guest:Dude, check it out.

01:35:09Guest:Yeah.

01:35:09Guest:It's something.

01:35:09Guest:And you were great in the other guys.

01:35:10Guest:That was hilarious.

01:35:11Guest:Oh, man, that's so much fun.

01:35:12Marc:That must have been a blast.

01:35:13Guest:Yeah, that's a business to be in with those guys.

01:35:16Marc:I mean, those guys, like, you know, like with Farrell, I mean, that must have been...

01:35:20Marc:Is everybody funnier than him?

01:35:21Marc:I don't think so.

01:35:22Marc:Honestly, God.

01:35:23Marc:Just pure funny.

01:35:24Marc:I'll go watch shitty movies that he's in just to know that I will get one.

01:35:29Marc:I know I will laugh.

01:35:30Marc:100%.

01:35:31Marc:And I don't mean to say shitty, but you see the coming attractions.

01:35:35Marc:You're like, I don't know.

01:35:36Marc:But Farrell's in it.

01:35:37Marc:If I can get 45 seconds of him at his best-

01:35:41Marc:I'll pay the fucking cover.

01:35:42Guest:Me too.

01:35:43Guest:And I don't know another guy like that.

01:35:45Guest:I don't either.

01:35:45Guest:He's a really nice guy and a really good, solid dude.

01:35:53Guest:There's something about his world and Adam McKay and all those guys where it's that great thing where you're looking at the movie and you think to yourself,

01:36:00Guest:well, this is really ridiculously silly and out there.

01:36:03Guest:And why is this so smart at the same time?

01:36:05Guest:Because it's got a smart thing that some other guys are making movies that somehow don't have.

01:36:10Guest:Somehow he's got it.

01:36:10Guest:And you look at what he's doing.

01:36:12Guest:You know, you can be in a scene.

01:36:13Guest:I was trying to explain this to somebody the other day.

01:36:15Guest:When I was in that movie with him,

01:36:17Guest:you can be doing your, you'll be in the scene and you'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm getting this.

01:36:22Guest:This is good.

01:36:23Guest:I really found that.

01:36:24Guest:Like, you know, found that and the scene's rolling and you're right there and you go, and you can think you're as, and you may be, just fucking killing it.

01:36:33Guest:And you turn your head and you look at him and you go, this motherfucker's just going to hit this thing so far out of the park.

01:36:40Guest:You know, and you actually go, there's nothing I can do about it.

01:36:42Marc:There's nothing I can do about it.

01:36:43Guest:And it's so great to watch right in front of you.

01:36:47Marc:I always find that, too.

01:36:49Marc:When you're talking about Bill Hader, I don't always know what I do.

01:36:54Marc:Obviously, I'm not in the same league as people who've done the movies and stuff.

01:36:58Marc:But I do live shows sometimes where they're just panel shows where I do a live version of this.

01:37:03Marc:But it's just so guys can be funny.

01:37:05Marc:And I had Hader and Armisen and people.

01:37:08Marc:But I had Hader out there once.

01:37:10Marc:And I'm sitting right next to him.

01:37:11Marc:And I'm watching him just tell this story.

01:37:13Marc:He's getting huge laughs.

01:37:15Marc:But there's that weird moment where it's like, that's just that guy.

01:37:18Marc:Yeah.

01:37:18Marc:He's just talking from that face.

01:37:20Marc:Yeah.

01:37:20Marc:And look what it's doing.

01:37:22Marc:It's like baffling when you're just right there.

01:37:25Marc:Yeah.

01:37:26Marc:And they're just people.

01:37:27Marc:And they're just so much bigger than life when you see it.

01:37:30Guest:Well, that's nice that you're generous like that.

01:37:31Guest:Because, you know, you know how it can get.

01:37:33Guest:Especially funny.

01:37:34Guest:It's weird, you know.

01:37:34Guest:Like, I don't know.

01:37:36Guest:It gets weird.

01:37:37Guest:But like we were saying, not so much anymore.

01:37:39Guest:Everybody's so...

01:37:39Marc:better and more healthy i think i don't know if it comes from other parents or what it was but you can it's nice that you can sit there and watch them and just dig it yeah it took a long time you got to battle a certain amount of jealousy yeah but there's certain things where you got to be like well this guy is it's just fucking hilarious yeah and what am i gonna like you know interrupt him so so i can you know try to get something out that i know is not gonna you know why not just you know be the straight guy

01:38:05Marc:Totally, man.

01:38:06Guest:There's no harm in being the straight guy.

01:38:08Guest:No, it's fun to be.

01:38:09Guest:Because when you're on board with him, you're on the same ship.

01:38:11Guest:You're just going to do it.

01:38:13Marc:You're helping him, and he's helping you.

01:38:14Marc:You're sort of amplifying his timing.

01:38:16Marc:100%.

01:38:17Marc:Oh, it's fucking sweet.

01:38:19Marc:But, you know, I'm so glad to see you.

01:38:21Marc:I'm so glad you're doing all this great work.

01:38:22Marc:So the new RoboCop, who are you in that?

01:38:27Guest:You know, I didn't really see all of the other.

01:38:30Marc:It doesn't sound like you watch.

01:38:31Guest:I don't.

01:38:32Guest:I don't.

01:38:32Guest:I don't watch anything.

01:38:33Marc:You don't watch your own movies.

01:38:34Marc:It's embarrassing.

01:38:34Marc:You catch bits and pieces.

01:38:35Marc:I know.

01:38:36Marc:What, do you walk by the den where your kids watch television?

01:38:38Marc:Like, oh, I was in that.

01:38:39Marc:How am I doing?

01:38:40Marc:How am I doing?

01:38:43Guest:17 years ago, how am I doing?

01:38:46Guest:You're all right.

01:38:48Guest:No, I don't.

01:38:49Guest:I don't really like to watch.

01:38:50Guest:But I was asked to do this, and, you know, from a business point of view, you need to, like, you know, like Gary Oldman's in it, and we were talking, and we...

01:39:00Guest:You need to pop up, stick your head up, and say, you know, I'm around on those ones that are, you know, international, that they're going to play in Tokyo.

01:39:08Guest:Right, right, right.

01:39:09Guest:You've got to be around that world.

01:39:11Guest:So I'm being 100% honest, you want to do it for that reason alone, even if it was kind of stupid.

01:39:16Guest:Yeah, an international hit.

01:39:18Guest:It happens that if the guy, if this works, this is going to be really interesting to watch because his take on it is so kind of interesting and timely.

01:39:27Guest:So what I play is this...

01:39:29Guest:I wasn't familiar with the first one until I kind of caught a little bit of it.

01:39:33Marc:The first one's kind of a satire.

01:39:35Guest:Yeah.

01:39:36Guest:Right.

01:39:36Guest:Which was kind of cool, I thought.

01:39:38Guest:This is less so by a bunch, but there was the Omnicorp.

01:39:44Guest:I think that was the title of the old company.

01:39:46Guest:So I play the guy who creates the Omnicorp, and for me, he's, and actually for Jose, or Jose,

01:39:52Guest:He said, let's talk about it.

01:39:56Guest:Do you think he's Steve Jobs?

01:39:58Guest:I said, that's what I was thinking.

01:39:59Guest:An evil Steve Jobs?

01:40:01Guest:Well, he's actually, that's what's interesting about it.

01:40:04Guest:So for me, I kind of created this guy that I thought, I like to think about who those really big thinkers are out there, Ted Turner.

01:40:10Guest:Jobs and Richard Branson, guys who, you know, this guy who created Tesla, you know.

01:40:15Guest:They like the people who go, I'm thinking all the way out there.

01:40:18Guest:You know, I've got no boundaries.

01:40:20Guest:And so I figure he's a guy who's got several companies and he's constantly minds clicking, thinking about what to do next.

01:40:25Guest:So I met these professors, these MIT professors who were robotics and bionics especially.

01:40:32Guest:That's a whole, we could do a show on that sometime.

01:40:34Guest:So

01:40:35Guest:What he is is he owns it and says, I can literally eliminate crime.

01:40:43Guest:You know?

01:40:44Guest:I mean, eliminate it.

01:40:46Marc:And... Those are the best kind of bad guys.

01:40:49Marc:The ones with the great moral purpose.

01:40:52Marc:Yeah.

01:40:52Guest:Yeah.

01:40:52Guest:But, you know, and that's what we play.

01:40:54Guest:Like, this guy says, no, we're not going to play that mustache-twisting thing.

01:40:58Guest:Because my argument is as good as anyone's.

01:41:00Guest:Because my argument in this movie is really, really strong.

01:41:02Guest:Which is, you know, did you see the thing, I don't know if it was on 60 Minutes, or maybe I read about it.

01:41:09Guest:No, no, some television show where they profiled this guy who operates drones.

01:41:16Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:41:16Guest:You know, we're removed from that, which is really interesting.

01:41:18Guest:That's what kind of this deals with is, you know, because that's what's going on.

01:41:22Marc:Faceless evil in a way.

01:41:23Guest:Yeah.

01:41:24Guest:But also, you know, what robotics do now.

01:41:26Guest:I mean, there are drones that monitor a lot now.

01:41:29Marc:Don't just... And, hey, man, I was... This is being televised despite my every intention I didn't want it to be.

01:41:37Marc:Right.

01:41:38Marc:I don't know where the camera is.

01:41:38Marc:How are we doing?

01:41:39Marc:Yeah, I don't know.

01:41:40Marc:Someone's watching us.

01:41:41Marc:Yeah.

01:41:41Marc:These guys are no threat.

01:41:46Marc:So are you going fishing soon?

01:41:49Guest:I am not.

01:41:49Guest:I'm going back to work, and then I'm going to lay down and sleep.

01:41:53Guest:I get this other thing I'm doing in March.

01:41:55Guest:I directed this little movie, and now I think I'm going to maybe direct another.

01:41:59Guest:Great.

01:42:00Marc:That's a new thing?

01:42:01Guest:Yeah, I really like that.

01:42:02Marc:I really, really like that.

01:42:03Marc:That's fucking great that you're getting into it.

01:42:05Marc:Yeah.

01:42:05Marc:Are there scripts that you bought, or how does it work?

01:42:08Guest:No, I got one that just kind of evolved.

01:42:11Guest:I was supposed to act in it, and the director fell out, and the projects were sitting right there with Kelly MacDonald, and I said, hey, is that thing around?

01:42:19Guest:And...

01:42:20Guest:They said, yeah.

01:42:21Guest:And I said, let me go look at that again.

01:42:23Guest:And I said, hey, what do you think about me directing it?

01:42:24Guest:And then that came together.

01:42:25Guest:Very small little movie.

01:42:27Guest:And then this next one, right now, it's, you know, if it, you know how it works.

01:42:33Guest:If all the funding comes together and it ever happens, it'll happen with Nick Nolte, who's great.

01:42:38Guest:Great.

01:42:39Guest:When did you work with Duvall?

01:42:40Guest:I worked with him.

01:42:42Guest:I've gotten to be friends with him.

01:42:44Guest:I did this little movie in Scotland.

01:42:46Guest:Not a very good movie, but he really wanted to do it.

01:42:49Guest:He loves soccer.

01:42:52Guest:So he called and said, would you play this role?

01:42:54Guest:I didn't really know him that well at the time, and I got to know him there.

01:42:58Guest:And then he was in the newspaper.

01:43:01Guest:uh which is actually a good little movie yeah that ron howard movie okay that's the first time i met him and what did what was uh because he's like what'd you like you know you talk about working with tony randall and like in my mind duval is like this transcendent yeah actor you know like what what was his process what did you learn from his discipline is so extraordinary is it yeah and he he sits on the set he he he was notorious you know people used to be really afraid of him and he does have kind of an intimidating

01:43:26Guest:I think the fucking guy was like 64 or something and he punched some director.

01:43:30Guest:But I didn't find that he's good.

01:43:34Guest:It's just that he's so specific.

01:43:36Guest:He doesn't particularly like to be director because he says, I'm going to show you what I'm going to do and you've got to trust me.

01:43:42Guest:And so he's got this presence, and he's so locked into what he's doing.

01:43:46Guest:So I'd watch him.

01:43:47Guest:I'd sit there and watch how I'd work, and he'd just stay in the set.

01:43:50Guest:And they're setting it up, and they're lighting it.

01:43:51Guest:And he'd just kind of, like, run his lines to himself and wander around and stay kind of there and stay kind of present.

01:43:57Guest:And then kind of start to lock into the... And then by the time you're starting to roll, he's kind of right there and locked into it.

01:44:03Guest:And, you know, you pay attention.

01:44:06Guest:Unless you don't have a pulse, you're going to learn something.

01:44:10Guest:Yeah.

01:44:10Guest:Well, I'm so fucking thrilled that you did this.

01:44:13Guest:Man, I'm so sorry it took me so long.

01:44:16Marc:Oh, no, no.

01:44:16Marc:It's all right.

01:44:17Marc:It happened the way it was supposed to happen.

01:44:18Marc:Yeah.

01:44:18Marc:Now?

01:44:19Marc:Okay, now.

01:44:20Marc:Well, you're so great at this, honestly.

01:44:21Marc:It's so easy.

01:44:22Marc:Oh, good.

01:44:22Marc:Well, I appreciate you doing it.

01:44:24Marc:It was a great talk, man.

01:44:25Marc:Thanks, dude.

01:44:25Marc:Yep.

01:44:31Marc:Oh, my God.

01:44:32Marc:That happened.

01:44:34Marc:Very exciting.

01:44:35Marc:What a great guy.

01:44:36Marc:And it was great to talk about his comedy years and just get the whole overview.

01:44:42Marc:Just what a great fucking guy.

01:44:44Marc:What an honest, ballsy dude that guy is.

01:44:47Marc:And I'm glad we were able to have that.

01:44:49Marc:And thank you for listening.

01:44:51Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:44:54Marc:Kick in a few shekels.

01:44:55Marc:Get the app.

01:44:56Marc:Get some merch.

01:44:57Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.

01:45:00Marc:pow look out i just shit my pants you can uh you know get you know pick up you see the uh tour dates there you can do whatever you got to do on wtfpod.com there and uh yeah and you know those pre-sales as i mentioned at the beginning uh they're happening you know and the big tours there that should be on the site and that's it i think we're good fucking batman am i right michael keaton

01:45:26Marc:Unbelievable.

01:45:28Marc:Jacob Dillon on Monday.

01:45:31Marc:That was a good talk.

01:45:33Marc:Watch me struggle to not make it about his father.

01:45:36Marc:You know, relatively successfully.

01:45:40Marc:All right.

01:45:41Marc:Boomy lives!

01:45:42Marc:Boomy lives!

01:45:49you