Episode 338 - J Mascis
Guest:are we doing this really wait for it are we doing this wait for it pow what the fuck and it's also what the fuck what's wrong with me it's time for wtf what the fuck with mark maron
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck next?
Marc:What the fuck of files?
Marc:That's it for today.
Marc:That's not the end of the show.
Marc:It's just all of the listing of the names.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome.
Marc:Welcome back.
Marc:Welcome back from your childhood regression.
Marc:Welcome back to being an adult if you've made it back after visiting your parents.
Marc:Those of you who didn't visit your parents and had the casual Thanksgiving with the friends, God bless you if there is such a thing.
Marc:for laying low.
Marc:I hope you didn't get too nostalgic, but you probably made a choice.
Marc:You're like, I'm not going to engage.
Marc:Look, I don't need to go there every year.
Marc:Maybe you don't talk to them.
Marc:Whatever it is, I wonder if you had a nicer Thanksgiving.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:With all the Tsuris, as they say in the old days, the old Jew days, with all the problems and emotional weight of spending time with family, there's something about not doing it that makes you miss it.
Marc:I'm not sure what that is.
Marc:I mean, I know that I felt that because I didn't go down to Thanksgiving at my mother's house last year.
Marc:And I felt that I felt sort of a burden off.
Marc:But you sort of like, well, how many years more of this do we have?
Marc:And, you know, maybe I should have been down there and I wish I could have been down there.
Marc:And and then you go down there and after about a day or two, you're like, well, you know, I've had enough of being down here.
Marc:Had a lovely time.
Marc:Can I just say that?
Marc:Because I know that my mother listens to this.
Marc:And we had a good time.
Marc:The food was great.
Marc:The company was pretty good.
Marc:I didn't freak out too much.
Marc:There was a Brussels sprouts issue.
Marc:It's amazing how your brain will lock down on shit, you know, that there's a perfection you're aspiring to when you cook.
Marc:At least you want to cook what you set out to cook and you want it to come out the way you want.
Marc:You don't want obstacles like shitty Whole Foods Brussels sprouts.
Marc:Whole Foods can go fuck themselves.
Marc:All of them.
Marc:I don't know why I get suckered into it.
Marc:I buy a couple of things there when necessary.
Marc:And I thought I was down in Florida.
Marc:I believe I went to the La Ventura, the Aventura Whole Foods to get a couple of things that I needed for Jessica's meal because she goes healthy.
Marc:She goes veggie.
Marc:So I figured, well, fuck it.
Marc:I'll pick up the Brussels sprouts here.
Marc:And I got a bunch of those bags of Brussels sprouts where you really can't see clearly.
Marc:And I swear to God, at least 45% of those Brussels sprouts were fucked.
Marc:They were brown.
Marc:They were fucked up.
Marc:They were slimy.
Marc:And I couldn't see it.
Marc:And I had to peel and I had to do such surgery on every Brussels sprout just to get to the clean, nice Brussels sproutism that is at the core of them.
Marc:And I like Brussels sprouts.
Marc:I know some of you dismissing this whole dialogue because of your aversion or fear or trauma.
Marc:Brussels sprouts related trauma is not unusual.
Marc:But I was so furious at Whole Foods, I wanted to burn them the fuck down.
Marc:You can't just sell shit.
Marc:How about a little produce check?
Marc:How about a little keeping things turnover?
Marc:Take a look.
Marc:We're not all suckers.
Marc:I didn't have time to go back.
Marc:You fucked up my Thanksgiving vibe with your shitty Brussels sprouts, Whole Foods.
Marc:And somebody ought to be punished.
Marc:I think the entire food chain should be punished.
Marc:They were overpriced and they were bullshit.
Marc:If you're going to cost that much, you know what, dude, pull back.
Marc:Pull back.
Marc:Now I have Brussels sprouts related trauma.
Marc:Look, I have an important guest to me on the show today.
Marc:Mr. Jay Mascus, the the mastermind behind the band Dinosaur Junior.
Marc:Now, some of you may not know John Dinosaur Junior, but they they changed my life.
Marc:Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:shifted the whole musical paradigm for me in the early 90s.
Marc:I think 1991, something happened.
Marc:I was living in New York, and two things happened.
Marc:I was sleeping on a futon on a bed frame that I paid a lot of money for, but that was the only thing that was above the floor.
Marc:My stereo was on the floor.
Marc:My CDs were on the floor.
Marc:Books were on the floor.
Marc:I had a table.
Marc:I had a table.
Marc:But I remember the day or the week that Nevermind by Nirvana came out.
Marc:It was just everywhere.
Marc:I don't recall anything like that happening except for when Van Halen 1 came out when I was in high school.
Marc:And it was just everywhere.
Marc:You just heard eruption everywhere.
Marc:And the same with Nevermind.
Marc:It was just everywhere.
Marc:It was coming out of every car.
Marc:It was coming out of every record store.
Marc:It was everywhere.
Marc:But right next to it, and I hope that Jay doesn't take offense to this, but I don't even know when they dropped.
Marc:But there was Green Mind, Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:'s Green Mind, 1991, which what drew me in initially was the poster for Green Mind, which was like this 14-year-old girl smoking a cigarette.
Marc:It was a found photograph.
Marc:I'll talk to Jay about that.
Marc:But that record, and never mind, it was like everything was different.
Marc:Between Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:and the sub-pop stuff, everything was fucking different.
Marc:Jay Maskis and Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:just changed music.
Marc:For me, it was the beginning of this wave of everything shifting.
Marc:And I don't even want to call it grunge.
Marc:He's a fucking genius.
Marc:And the reason I'm sort of prefacing it, for those of you who don't know who Jay Maskis is, is that this is not an ordinary interview.
Marc:This is an interview with a guy I have a tremendous amount of respect for from a different world than me.
Marc:He's a musician.
Marc:And I don't know how to put it.
Marc:I was so excited to talk to him.
Marc:And I remember I ran into Dave Cross down in Venice Beach.
Marc:I said...
Marc:I'm going to be interviewing Mascus.
Marc:And he said, well, good luck with that.
Marc:And I'm like, what does that mean?
Marc:He goes, well, he hasn't talked much.
Marc:I'm like, oh, really?
Marc:That's all right, man.
Marc:I'm going to lock in and I'm going to engage.
Marc:And he's just not a big talker.
Marc:It's not that he's cagey or hiding anything.
Marc:He's just I think he'd rather be sitting in a studio playing guitar, quite honestly.
Marc:But he was gracious enough to come over here.
Marc:And we did have a lovely conversation.
Marc:So if you're if you're a Jay Mascus person, I hope I've done you proud.
Marc:If you're not a Jay Mascus person, I encourage you to listen to some Dinosaur Junior.
Marc:They've had a tremendous career.
Marc:The last record, I believe, was Beyond, it's called.
Marc:And it was a it's a great record.
Marc:No, I bet on Sky.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Beyond was a few years ago.
Marc:But he's a genius.
Marc:And he does play a couple songs at the end.
Marc:And I felt like he could have played.
Marc:He would have sat and played 20.
Marc:I should have had him sit and play 20.
Marc:Just him and his guitar.
Marc:Anyways, it was very exciting for me to talk to Jay.
Marc:But look, I do want to say that I did learn this weird thing in Florida.
Marc:If I could go back to Florida for a minute.
Marc:I didn't regress all the way down.
Marc:I thought I would get to about 10 years old, but I didn't.
Marc:But what I did figure out in some weird way was that whatever your dynamic is with your folks, it's just been that way forever.
Marc:And if you really try to think about the dynamic, why am I locked in this?
Marc:It's not just about being young or turning into a child or anything.
Marc:There's this core dynamic that was always there.
Marc:And I realized that I get along great with my mother.
Marc:We had a nice time.
Marc:But whatever is there is there.
Marc:And whatever isn't there isn't there.
Marc:And it's never going to be there.
Marc:And I've talked about this before.
Marc:But I was literally laying in bed with Jessica in my mother's house trying to breathe.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I don't know why I get to my mother's and I literally can't breathe.
Marc:I don't want to go too deep into that.
Marc:It's not that she's suffocating.
Marc:I just get a certain amount of anxiety.
Marc:And I'm a 49-year-old man, for fuck's sake.
Marc:You'd think this would go away.
Marc:Jessica said something interesting.
Marc:God, I don't even know if I could say that.
Marc:She said, it's weird.
Marc:You don't really have a mother-son dynamic with your mother.
Marc:She's more like an ex-girlfriend.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, yes, that's if only you knew what I've been through.
Marc:And I have to keep seeing her, not because we have kids, but I am her kid.
Marc:And she's my mother.
Marc:This is hilarious stuff.
Marc:Hey, look, you thinking about sending a handwritten letter to me or to anybody else?
Marc:Did I mention, did I mention, oh, wait, before I do this, the Boomer Lives t-shirts, I've got a lot of sadness about Boomer too.
Marc:That's starting to come up too.
Marc:I keep thinking I hear him meowing, which is horrendous.
Marc:Like I go look for him every day.
Marc:Now that deaf black cat, that fucking pirate, he's out on the deck.
Marc:He seems to be living there.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:It's taunting me.
Marc:I feel like Boomer's killers are just hanging around the house now.
Marc:But it's not true.
Marc:It can't be true.
Marc:But the Boomer Lives t-shirts because Boomer does live.
Marc:Boomy lives.
Marc:are are are are selling very well people dig them i don't know whether i'm going to make more of them so if you want one you should go to wtfpod.com go to the merch section and pick yourself up a boomer lives t-shirt i'm going to send a dollar to charity well i'm getting a lot of suggestions for those also christmas is around the corner plenty of merch there tote bags stickers t-shirts the boomer lives thing that might be a that's very specific wtf or
Marc:uh gift idea so uh get on that if you want to do that but also you know christmas time is coming up the holiday time hanukkah time if you want to get gifts i've stocked up over at wtfpod.com go to the merch area and get what you can so uh relax you know relax into the jay mascus interview know that i love him i love his music and know that he's going to play some songs at the end
Marc:Oh, Philadelphia Helium, December 6th through 8th.
Marc:I will also be at the Wilbur Theater doing a live WTF and a solo stand-up show on Friday, February 8th.
Marc:Those tickets are on sale now at thewilburtheater.com.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:So let's talk to Jay Maskis.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:All right.
Marc:We're going to do it.
Marc:We're doing it now.
Marc:You can put those cans on if you want.
Marc:Does it help?
Marc:Yeah, you can hear yourself.
Marc:I mean, I like it.
Marc:How do you feel about you?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I like the cool mic sound.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Marc:There you are.
Marc:You sound like you're on the radio.
Marc:Jay Mask is in my garage.
Marc:It's pretty overwhelming, and I don't always talk to musicians, especially in the few that I do talk to, I have a tremendous amount of respect for.
Marc:So I get nervous.
Marc:Are you nervous?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A little bit.
Marc:You know, I went to school in Boston, and I've been out to Amherst.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I knew you lived out there in retrospect, but it's weird, because my only memory of Amherst is picking up a girl at Mount Holyoke, I think, which is around there, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I just remember driving up there.
Marc:What is it, like an hour?
Marc:How far is it from Boston?
Marc:Two hours.
Marc:Driving two hours for a date, which is ridiculous.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just driving up as the sun was coming down and just seeing women playing field hockey outside.
Marc:And I was like, wow, it is exactly like I thought.
Marc:They all look like they could kick my ass.
Marc:And then I visited Amherst.
Marc:And then after I got to know your music, I think it was probably...
Marc:In maybe 1990?
Marc:When did Green Mind become huge?
Marc:Was it 90?
Marc:90, yeah.
Marc:Like 90, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I read that you lived in Amherst, and then I just kept picturing, like, what's that guy doing in Amherst?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then as time went on, I'm like, I just started to picture you as like a cave-dwelling genius in Amherst.
Guest:Well, I got an apartment in New York and I would kind of go back and forth.
Guest:Yeah, but you grew up there, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And like you went to high school?
Guest:Now I'm back there.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that weird?
Guest:Yeah, I just don't know where to go, you know.
Guest:Does home seem like a reasonable place?
Guest:Yeah, it's like I've been so many places and it's just like I go home and it doesn't seem that bad and it's... Where did you live all around?
Guest:You lived in New York and where else?
Guest:Amherst.
Marc:So you haven't been a lot of places, but you've been around.
Marc:I'm on tour, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Are your folks still there?
Guest:No, they died.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:But my brother and sister are there, and my other sister lives in Boston, but I think she wishes she lived in Amherst.
Marc:It's beautiful there, right?
Marc:It's like my recollection, it's almost woodsy.
Marc:There's not a lot around, just a lot of college kids.
Marc:Did they become annoying?
Guest:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Guest:It was just a lot of hippies back then, and it was a big hippie town, and
Guest:Because we're about the, what, you're a couple years younger than me.
Guest:Oh, yeah, because you have, what's the other college up there?
Guest:Hampshire?
Guest:Hampshire was the big one, yeah.
Guest:No grades.
Guest:You can major in, like, baskets.
Guest:Frisbee.
Guest:I got a degree in Frisbee.
Marc:When you were in high school, though, what was the scene, though?
Marc:I mean, what were you doing in Amherst?
Guest:Did you have a car?
Guest:No, nobody had a car except Murph, who was the drummer in Dino.
Guest:He's the only kid I knew who had a car.
Guest:Everybody's parents were professors, so...
Guest:Every kid I knew was a parent was a professor and nobody had a car.
Guest:We'd just kind of hang out.
Guest:Was there any wizards around?
Guest:Did you meet any wizards?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There was, you know, the guy that sold Padu.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Who his whole house was covered in aluminum foil.
Guest:And he's like, you know, to protect him from the microwave so the government couldn't control his mind.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, a lot of good stories.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Zeb.
Guest:Zeb the pot dealer.
Guest:He was into, you know, Psycho Billy was his thing.
Guest:Any band, he'd go, oh, yeah, we're going to see this band.
Guest:Are they Psycho Billy?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:What is Psycho Billy?
Marc:how many psycho billy bands are there two yeah i don't know the cramps and what i don't even know what psycho billy is i don't either i mean didn't kramer make a record called psycho billy do you remember kramer yeah sure chimmy disc i played with kramer with in gg allen's band one day that was pretty exciting what year was that i don't know 87 86 how bad did it get with gg on stage
Guest:It was bad, you know, you think, oh, this is going to be fun or something, or this is cool to play with Gigi Allen.
Guest:But then it's like, it's just like the reality here, just like when he's shitting on stage and ramming the mic up his ass, you're like, this is not very cool.
Guest:I kind of imagine it's the same way Kurt Cobain felt when he married Courtney Love.
Marc:It's the opposite of fun.
Marc:You're like, this guy's a legend.
Marc:Oh, he's really shitting.
Guest:Yeah, and oh, he's covered in blood and shit within like 10 seconds.
Marc:And you're like, how far are you?
Marc:You're trying to keep your distance away.
Guest:I'm at the very edge of the stage, yeah.
Guest:And he says this song, he says this song, I Want to Rape You.
Guest:And he's like, okay.
Guest:In practice, he was like, we practiced once.
Guest:And he said, okay, this is the part where I go rape the girl, so just keep playing the solo until I'm done, and then we'll go back into the song.
Guest:And I was like, oh, okay, but...
Guest:In reality, he didn't really have to rape anyone because all these girls were willing to give themselves to him.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah, all these chicks were totally psyched.
Marc:And he was notorious for shitting on stage, covering himself in shit and blood.
Marc:It was sort of like a ritualized self-hate show.
Guest:Yeah, and everyone was pinned in the back of the wall as soon as it started because he was throwing shit.
Guest:Everyone was scared in the audience.
Guest:It was at the Cat Club in New York.
Marc:So there was nobody up front?
Guest:No, except the girl who wanted to be raped.
Marc:How many girls were there up there?
Marc:Usually one or two?
Marc:We're not talking a lot.
Guest:I remember one.
Guest:There was one for sure.
Marc:He arrived at the club with like four girls, I think.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:And you would come down from Amherst to do that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that at the beginning?
Marc:Had you formed Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:yet?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you were known.
Marc:This was a thing that you decided to do as a side thing.
Marc:Was it a favor to Kramer or what?
Marc:Or just for the experience?
Guest:No, it's like Gerard Cosloy from, he runs Matador Records, was putting together the band.
Guest:And he was my other band's manager in Amherst at UMass.
Guest:He went to college for a semester.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Deep Wound.
Guest:So I knew him and he put out the first Dino record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This was, yeah, after the first record, so we weren't that happening, but we'd go to New York to play.
Guest:That was the only place that really accepted us at all.
Marc:And Deep Wound, you played drums in that band?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was your first instrument, drums?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you love drums still?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you started out in, was it hardcore, would you call it?
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:So that's definitely that pace.
Marc:And then you've still got a lot of love in your heart for metal.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Marc:And when you were in high school, who were the guys you were listening to?
Marc:I mean, what was it that was plowing through your head?
Marc:What was that moment where you're like, oh, that sound is where I'd like to live.
Guest:well you know just went through you know started with like sabbath and then i got into punk and it was like this eater this punk band and then hardcore like minor threat negative approach at that point and then you just broke it open for yourself because i remember like i think the first album that i listened to you know after green line because that just got my attention because of that album cover
Guest:i can't i mean like i can't i can't that girl is just you know burned into my head the little girl with the cigarette right where'd that come from um this book by joseph zabo it's his photo book um kim gordon from sonic youth showed it to me and i thought you know it just seems so cool and we got the rights to it so
Marc:Did you ever, do you know that girl?
Guest:No, but at one point her daughter like emailed me or something.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I'm the daughter of the girl on Green Map, yeah.
Marc:And how old was that photograph when you used it?
Guest:Looks like early 70s or something.
Marc:And she was like, she looked like she was 12.
Marc:Yeah, she looked pretty cool.
Marc:And what did the daughter have to say?
Marc:Just like, hey.
Guest:Yeah, that's about it.
Guest:And she kind of looked the same.
Marc:And it was just such a ballsy sort of cover.
Marc:And then when you, like, that record was just, like, all over the place.
Marc:I think that record kind of changed my mind about music in general because I had not kind of engaged in, you know, what was considered alternative music or pop or power pop at that time or anything that was going on.
Marc:And I think that record, you know, started me buying, like, all the sub-pop stuff and, like...
Marc:you know kaius and you know screaming trees and everything i was coming out of washington but but yours was like the entry in and there were songs on there because i don't know what chords you use because i play guitar kind of shitty yeah but it seems like there's something like almost like um dark and enchanting and just like magic about the minor thing is it what are your favorite chords is that a weird question
Guest:i don't know i just was playing drums i was just making up my own chords you know yeah i couldn't play bar chords it was a bit too hard so i just kind of put my finger here and there until it sounded good is that true yeah you just taught yourself how to play guitar yeah i didn't have much going on so in the cave in amherst yeah so you just but you do can you identify them now
Guest:No, I mean, just the basic note, I don't know what the diminished ninth.
Marc:Oh, there you go.
Marc:That sounds good.
Marc:It feels diminishing a little bit, but rejoicing and diminishing at the same time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So when you started playing guitar, you had no lessons.
Guest:No, I had a lot of drum lessons.
Marc:And when you started doing the first Dinosaur stuff, was it all you or did you have the band in place?
Guest:No, I had the band.
Guest:I just thought, I didn't know any guitarists I liked around the area.
Guest:There's not a big pool to pick from.
Guest:I knew I could show somebody how to play drums because I had a lot of drum lessons and I figured I could do that to somebody.
Guest:So I figured I'd just play guitar and Lou moved from guitar to bass.
Guest:And we just kind of... And you just kind of hammered it over and over again?
Guest:Yeah, we didn't have much to do, so we just... Were you living at your parents' house?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Were you in the basement?
Guest:The basement, yeah.
Marc:And you just had it set up?
Marc:What kind of recorder were you using for the first couple?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Four track?
Guest:No, we went to this hippie who did sound.
Guest:He had an eight track one inch in his house and we recorded there.
Marc:Just some weird old hippie.
Guest:Yeah, he hated us.
Guest:Most of the engineers hated us and sound men especially.
Marc:Well, how much can a local engineer in Amherst really hate anybody?
Marc:Aren't they just happy you're there using their equipment for money?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Amherst is a very hateful, jaded kind of place.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, no one is happy if you succeed or anything.
Marc:It's very bitter and twisted kind of vibe.
Marc:Okay, so now you did those first few albums there.
Marc:Now, how did you get involved with, I know you produced, I believe, the first Buffalo Tom record.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did you get to know those guys?
Marc:Because I thought they were good.
Guest:Oh, they were just going to the same college, and I was like... Where was that?
Guest:At Amherst.
Guest:Oh, you went to Amherst?
Guest:To UMass.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, UMass, yeah.
Marc:And you just knew those guys?
Guest:Yeah, they were playing like Who Screwed You covers at parties.
Marc:And how did it come about that you ended up producing?
Guest:Oh, they asked me, I guess they somehow got on this weird Dutch label and, uh, yeah, you know, I was a bit, a few steps ahead of them.
Guest:So I, you know, but you weren't like known yet.
Guest:uh yeah we were doing yeah we had you're living all over me so that was our big our album where we started to get some fans so we were known around in certain circles yeah was that the first time you ever produced somewhere else it was yeah did you like their music it was all right yeah the first thing he brought in this rolling jazz chorus amp and i was just like you can just leave that in the hall you won't be needing that
Guest:It's like, I really like my sound.
Guest:I'm like, no, sorry.
Guest:So that was my... I kind of produced by abuse.
Marc:I didn't... Did you play guitar on there?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Because I noticed that there's some on... I like that song, The Bus, a lot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you remember it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And were you screaming behind there on your guitar?
Guest:Not on that song.
Guest:No?
Marc:Did you produce it so there was a sort of constant slight feedback drone throughout most of the songs?
No.
Guest:yeah i was a fan of that like jesus and mary chain yeah yeah how do you like uh like you play jazz master all the time or just sometimes uh pretty much all the time live not recording why why that guitar that's just the first guitar i got so i just learned how to play on it and my whole style kind of evolved out of that
Guest:yeah because i got a bait and switch kind of thing when i went to buy it you know i'd where'd you go to slimy bob's guitar ripoff in like connecticut somewhere he had these pics that said you've just been ripped off by slimy bob and when i went there he had just maced his employee for fun and was just laughing the guy's crying and he had a gun and he was that's what you walked into
Guest:yeah and he's just laughing and he's um you know it said i wanted to get a strat and he said you know on the paper it said strats 400 it was like an hour and a half away and when i got there of course you know strats were 450 and i only had 400 so the jazz master was 300 and there was a jaguar for 200 and i liked the i thought the jaguar looked cooler but the jazz master seemed better somehow
Marc:So it wasn't a sound thing, it was just that looked like the guitar to have?
Guest:Yeah, I wanted a Fender and that's all I could afford at the time.
Marc:What was it that, when you plugged in that guitar for the first time, obviously you knew you didn't want it to sound clean, but what was it that you wanted?
Marc:How did you make it sound like that?
Marc:What amps are you using?
Guest:uh i just you know i got a ampeg b4 i think is the first amp i got and it blew up like three times in a month because you were playing too hard no i was just screwed up and then i got this yamaha solid state amp because i saw bob mold play it i thought oh it can't be that bad it was only 100 bucks and and my guitar player friend who was like the cool guitar player dude was like
Guest:That amp sounds terrible.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:That's when I started wearing earplugs.
Guest:It was so painful.
Marc:But you liked it?
Guest:No, I just didn't know.
Guest:I just started playing it.
Marc:Are you telling me that's where your sound came from?
Guest:the big muff mostly that was what i was into because i was i came from playing drums and i wanted to make some kind of dynamics with the guitar and it felt so wimpy compared to drums i wanted so i just had the pedals to try to make fake dynamics and had it really loud to try to get some you know hit you in the back with some sound yeah yeah yeah it seemed so unexpressive compared to drums or something
Marc:are there bands that like when you were starting out that you you were like i need to you know how does that guy get that i mean was there ever that kind of thinking around your sound oh yeah like the stooges i was always really into the first stooges album guitar sound and crazy chasing that that it like it punched you in the head yeah that was did you ever did you ever meet iggy
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:It was strange, you know, because, you know, I'd been playing with Ron Ashton and Scott Ashton and been playing Stooges songs with them.
Guest:I kind of got, and we'd been playing these festivals and stuff and people were saying, you know, they're better than Iggy and...
Guest:who was singing who was singing just whoever you know mike watt was playing bass so he'd sing or we'd get guest singers yeah yeah yeah you know we did a show and just all a festival and all these other bands were there so yeah the guy from kaya sang one song and thurston and yeah different people just sang and
Guest:But we sounded, yeah, I thought we sounded a lot better than Iggy's crappy bands he had back then with all these heavy metal hacks and stuff.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So the word got back to him and he was, you know, I guess somehow pissed or something.
Guest:But it inspired him to get the Stooges back together at least.
Marc:His spite at you inspired him to get the Stooges back together?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when I met him, he was nice.
Guest:He was like, oh, you live in Amherst.
Guest:He knew all this stuff.
Guest:And I was kind of just standing there like, oh.
Guest:And Mike was in a version of Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:or another band?
Guest:It was Jay Mask is in the fog.
Marc:Was there a period where Dinosaur Jr.
Marc:was all you?
Marc:uh no no you always had somebody always somebody yeah but what lou was out for a while right yeah but he's back yeah he's back now is that a rift that was like it was a personal yeah very what happened
Guest:Uh, just couldn't stand each other personally.
Guest:I guess, you know, he didn't, for the first, you know, years of the band, he didn't talk.
Guest:You know, he was really shy.
Guest:Shyer than, like, you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:He was like, you know, the nerd at school.
Guest:He had tape on his glasses.
Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And who were you at school?
Guest:Me, I was like, I was kind of like, I thought I was popular in like, you know, like elementary school.
Guest:And then by seventh grade, I decided to like drop out of society somehow and grow my hair and listen to Sabbath.
Guest:So I... In seventh grade?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I figured I...
Guest:I don't know what I was then.
Guest:Do you remember the moment where you're like, I've had enough?
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I got a friend and we both decided we have to drop out of society.
Guest:Grow our hair and start smoking pot.
Marc:So it was just the two of you?
Marc:You and a friend decided you're out.
Marc:So you grew your hair out and you started smoking pot.
Marc:So you were those guys.
Marc:There were two of you and you were out in your minds.
Marc:But I imagine there were a lot of kids that were like, what's up?
Marc:those dudes no I mean because it was like it was such a hippie weird town it wasn't we kind of could easily just mingle in with the other but was there was a because I remember when I was in high school and because we're similar in age there was definitely camps was it a big enough high school to where you know the the the stoners had their place yeah the art room
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then the hippies had their place.
Guest:Well, they mixed pretty much.
Guest:They did.
Guest:It's a blurry line between the stoners and hippies back then.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There was still like the crashing wave of the 60s and the Zeppelin and those guys.
Marc:But then Sabbath, there was definitely a tonal difference between hippies and metal guys.
Guest:in amherst it was pretty blurred like the hippies and the metal guys it was kind of one you know and lou was neither of those he was in westfield it was a different town a whole different scene it's more like working class simpsons kind of yeah it wasn't a hippie town like amherst so and he was just too shy and you guys like you got mad that he didn't talk
Guest:No, I was fine when he didn't talk.
Guest:It's just like we got along great, you know, because musically we had the same kind of influences and ideas.
Guest:But then he got a girlfriend from one of the Smith College.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then he started, his ego got pumped up.
Guest:He got a girlfriend.
Guest:Then he started talking all the time.
Guest:So then he realized I didn't like what he was saying a lot of the time, and we just didn't get along, and then it got really just bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he got a little confident, started talking, and you're like, wow, I'm not sure I like this guy.
Marc:It was much better when I didn't know what he was thinking.
Marc:Something like that, yeah.
Marc:And now you're grown men and you're okay now?
Guest:Oh, not bad.
Guest:You know, we've got help, too.
Guest:We were all really bad communicators, so we have a little help now.
Guest:Do we have a manager?
Marc:A therapist manager?
Guest:No, just, you know, a small Jewish guy, a normal manager type.
Marc:That can explain the therapist too.
Marc:Small Jewish guy.
Marc:They fit into all disciplines.
Marc:So it's you and Lou and who else?
Marc:Murph.
Marc:So it's the original cats.
Marc:And how about Murph?
Marc:Is he more diplomatic?
Marc:There's got to be one guy that's like, come on fellas.
Guest:You know, it's very complicated, but yeah, he's definitely the man in the middle.
Marc:Now, when you were growing up, what did your old man do?
Marc:He was a dentist.
Marc:I have this weird thing about dentists.
Marc:I read this Updike book once, and it had a dentist character in it.
Marc:And the way he described it, there was something...
Marc:that he said about dentists that there's no profession that is more confronted with the decay of the human body as a dentist.
Marc:Every day a dentist is reminded that everything's very temporary and things are rotting.
Marc:Did you find your dad had that death?
Marc:Did you forget that?
Marc:I always ask people who have dentists in their family that thing.
Guest:Oh yeah, no, he was very Tony Soprano-like character.
Guest:So he was an aggressive dentist.
Guest:No, he was the singing dentist.
Guest:He was always humming to Muzak.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He was really swinging, and everybody liked him.
Marc:Was he known as that, the singing dentist?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was weird because it was kind of like the cobbler's son has no shoes.
Guest:He didn't want to see anybody in the family, but we couldn't go to any other dentist, so we had bad teeth.
Guest:Like he'd cancel our appointments, so my mom would make appointments under fake names just to get in there.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he'd show up and be like, no.
Guest:No, he'd have his assistant or whatever call and, oh, he has to cancel.
Guest:I think he was just having a good time at work.
Guest:He didn't want to bring the family life into work.
Guest:That was where he was partying.
Guest:He was having a great time at work and
Marc:And he just, he wouldn't, do you have siblings?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How many?
Guest:A brother and two sisters.
Marc:Did he do braces and everything else?
Guest:No, he wasn't an orthodontist, but we got, you know, we got free.
Guest:You know, he was always making deals, you know, trade potatoes with Polish farmers for dental work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he'd get free braces from this orthodontist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But there's always some weird stuff he's bringing.
Guest:There's a lot of farms around.
Guest:You know, bags full of weird stuff he'd trade for dental work.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Weird.
Guest:Just rotting, you know, I don't know, rutabate, who knows?
Marc:Just bags of vegetables?
Guest:Stuff, yeah, and you'd smell it rotting in the back of the car and you can't recognize it anymore.
Guest:I think that was potatoes.
Marc:The singing dentist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your mom just, what does she do?
Guest:She like played golf and just, she was just a mom and she didn't wake up till 11 and yeah, she was like a night owl and she read a lot of romance novels.
Marc:She played golf a lot?
Guest:golf and she's she was pretty sporty she'd sail and were you ever a sports guy ski i was we'd ski a lot our whole family so i like did skiing ski team oh really yeah did you go up to stow and stuff yeah stow was awesome
Marc:You were a skier.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd ski too when I was a kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What kind of skis?
Marc:K2s?
Guest:K2s all the way.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Scott boots?
Marc:Handsome boots?
Guest:No.
Guest:Nordica, I think.
Marc:Nordica.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So was it like one of those things where your dad would sort of like four in the morning, we're going.
Guest:Yeah, we'd have a house with like nine other families and go every weekend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you know were you good yeah it was pretty good i but i broke my both my legs when i was seven that was kind of a setback but skiing you did yeah at the same time yeah shit that's a that's a rough one so i think i got a little bit i would have been better if that didn't happen but you got back up on him yeah a year or so later
Guest:Yeah, the next year, but I don't have the, I realized I was a choker in sports, you know, like I was in a mini golf tournament.
Guest:I could have won and, you know, I just blew the last thing.
Guest:I don't have the killer instinct.
Marc:A mini golf tournament?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like the windmill?
Guest:You fucking blew the windmill?
Guest:Yeah, just like, you know, three foot putt, just choked.
Marc:Did you get shit from your mother?
Guest:No, she didn't care.
Guest:She was on the beach sailing.
Guest:That was when I hated the beach, so I just played mini golf on vacation.
Marc:The skiing thing's interesting.
Marc:Have you gone back?
Marc:Have you tried it lately?
Guest:Yeah, I've gone every year.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That's good to know.
Marc:I wouldn't imagine that.
Marc:I'm happy to know you ski, Jay.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Now, okay, so let's talk about Sonic Youth.
Marc:I mean, how pivotal were they in developing who you are?
Guest:uh they really helped us out a lot you know they were at our first new york show because we were really having a rough time everybody hated us around amherst and boston and why because i remember being in boston like in the i was in boston i graduated school 86 87 i went to some shows but i don't remember you guys playing there a lot no i mean you know we were just getting going then and uh
Guest:We had a better time in New York.
Guest:I guess people accepted us more or something.
Marc:Did you play the rat?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember that guy with the... That was awesome.
Marc:Yeah, the guy with the throat box.
Guest:I went to a lot of shows there, too.
Marc:Yeah, I saw Steve Albini there play a solo show downstairs.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:That was our first show in New York was opening for Big Black.
Marc:He was pretty amazing.
Marc:Did that have an effect on you?
Marc:Because he was sort of a wall of sound dude.
Marc:Just massive guitars.
Marc:Oh sure, we love Big Black, that's great.
Marc:Who were some of the other ones?
Marc:Did you play with the Pixies?
Guest:Not really, but they were a little after our time.
Guest:The Pixies, the singer, I guess he said the first indie punk show he saw was Dinosaur.
Marc:Were you considered a punk band when you started?
Guest:Sort of, because we were coming out of a hardcore band, so people knew we were from this band, but then the hardcore people hated us.
Marc:But what was the shift?
Marc:Because you were very... There's definitely melodies there.
Marc:There's definitely chord changes that are not hardcore chord changes.
Guest:No, I mean, it was like hardcore ended, it seemed like, at once.
Guest:Minor threat breaks a negative approach, they all try to do something else.
Guest:It just seemed like one day...
Guest:it all ended so we wanted to play music too and but we knew it wasn't hardcore anymore and we just wanted to come up with some other sound and that was it that was it like even because you got sort of like there's definitely so many of the songs are like you know sing-alongable right were you conscious of hooks yeah sure i mean we were just trying to make music we'd want to listen to you know we like i liked all sorts of rock you know the beach boys i was really into as a little kid and
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:My girlfriend loves to be true.
Marc:I just saw him.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah, recently.
Guest:Who was in it?
Guest:Anybody?
Marc:Well, they pulled, well, Jardine, Al was there, Brian was there, Mike was there, and what's the other guy, the conservative dude?
Marc:Bruce was there.
Marc:The dead guys weren't there, but they did bring them in to play along on video.
Marc:Holograms?
Marc:Not holograms, but it was kind of weird.
Marc:Yeah, they did play along to Dennis singing something and to Carl singing something.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:What was it about that sound?
Marc:I mean, are you a Brian Wilson freak?
Guest:Yeah, I just like, I don't know, just appealed to me somehow, you know, I thought, you know, first I heard the Beatles, but something about the Beach Boys I liked better, you know, when you're like nine, I don't know.
Marc:Well, I can see, well, I mean, I can see that, like, because when I listen to Brian as a grown person, like, like as sweet as those songs are, I can't, there's like almost, there's a sadness there or a disjointedness there that literally like makes me uncomfortable.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:I don't know if you can feel it.
Marc:Can you feel?
Guest:Because his dad pulled out his eye and made him stare into the socket.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I'm sure that had something to do with it.
Marc:But do you feel that?
Marc:I mean, am I making that up?
Marc:I mean, when I listen to Brian's songs, as cheerful as they are, there's something heartbreaking about all of it.
Guest:Oh, yeah, he seems like a sad guy, for sure.
Marc:Yeah, and when I saw him performing, it was like, I'm not even a huge Beach Boys guy, but I was happy to see him happy.
Marc:He seemed to be up there conducting things.
Marc:I don't even know if half of it was on tape or not.
Guest:yeah but he was like oh he's happy thank god i guess he's on the right medicine you know what i mean do you remember all those boston bands like the dogmatics yeah sure scruffy the cat yeah like those cats were your contemporaries weren't they they were sort of not really they were a little older delfuegos they were a little older and more kind of bar band sounding than till tuesday yeah was there i used to see amy man going to the laundromat i lived off beacon street
Guest:Yeah, when I was 15, I was wearing a Motorhead t-shirt in Newberry Comics, and she was working there, and punks were making fun of me because I had a Motorhead t-shirt on because they weren't too stupid to know that Motorhead was cool yet.
Marc:They hadn't integrated them into the lexicon yet?
Guest:Yeah, but Amy Mann stood up for me.
Guest:She's like...
Guest:shut up guys, Motorhead's cool.
Marc:And I was like, you know, I was like, did you, did you know it was Amy Mann or she was just a girl?
Guest:She was really recognizable.
Guest:I didn't know anything about her, but she was just there working in Newberg comics.
Marc:That's a great moment.
Marc:Have you told her that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or somebody told her, I don't know.
Marc:So, New York, so, all right, so Sonic Youth helped you out.
Marc:Who were the bands that, when you were there in New York, that were sort of contemporaries or, like, guys you would play with on the same bill?
Guest:Like Pussy Galore, Dostum, and, yeah, Sonic Youth was there.
Guest:Like, White Zombie moved to town.
Marc:I had that bridge tribute, that Neil Young tribute album for a long time.
Marc:I got it right when it came out.
Marc:I mean, it's a long time ago.
Marc:It must have been the early 90s.
Marc:And you guys covered, what did you do, A Lotta Love?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And there was something that sort of, and I'm sure people have said this about you before, but there was something that struck me about the way you handled that song, but also about Neil in general, is that Neil seems to, unlike...
Marc:You know, a lot of his contemporaries, there are certain albums of his that just, they defy time.
Marc:Like, you can listen to them, and they're not marked by an era.
Marc:And there's something transcendent about that.
Marc:And I think a lot of your records have that, too.
Marc:Was he somebody that you were into?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because he can make a guitar scream.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:And we got compared to him a lot, because I think, you know, the way I sang.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I never thought I'd be singing.
Guest:We had a singer at first, but we kicked him out after the first show.
Guest:So then me and Lou split up singing.
Guest:and i you know i just tried to sing like mick jagger or uh how did that turn out i don't know you tell me mick jagger and john fogarty were my main vocal influences especially mick jagger with the fake southern accent that was kind of what i was going for from far away eyes yeah
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you really hit it.
Marc:You nail it, man.
Marc:I mean, because if you hadn't said that, I was going to say it.
Marc:I had it written down right here.
Marc:John Fergerti and Mick Jagger, primary influences.
Marc:Am I wrong?
Marc:Fucking nailed that.
Marc:I make very few notes, buddy.
Marc:Very few notes.
Marc:The thing about the new record, and I don't know, I can't say that I've listened to every one of them meticulously, but there's definitely fucking piano on here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's definitely organ on here.
Marc:right and like you know i noticed it right away like because i got a kid i'm working with he's a writer's assistant on my show and he's a dinosaur junior freak and and i got this record and like i was in the first song i'm like dude there's an organ on there and i told that kid he's like no fucking way is that a new thing for you
Guest:yeah i mean for the last yeah the for the last three albums since we got back together i was trying to make it sound really live i have more songs to play live but on this album i was like i've got a piano and you know i have a mellotron just i didn't care about playing it live so much anymore it sounds great man oh thanks who's playing it i am with the help of technology what does that mean you know i just you know play a chord and punch it in and play it
Marc:So you loop it so it just plays while you play something else?
Guest:No, I just kind of have the engineer punch in every chord pretty much.
Guest:I can't really.
Guest:You can't move around?
Guest:No.
Marc:So you're not actually playing.
Marc:You're playing a chord and then it's out of your hands.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like...
Marc:And what is the live show now?
Marc:You just played at that festival.
Marc:I played there too.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:It was fun except the festival was kind of bizarre somehow backstage and trying to maneuver through the bouncers.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Wasn't it fucked up?
Marc:I mean, I did the comedy stage and I had people with me and they're like, no, you can't.
Marc:Eventually, once you get through all the people that you have to get through, everyone you're with sort of is gone.
Marc:You're the only one that can get back there.
Guest:Yeah, I wanted to see Maria Bamford.
Guest:I missed her.
Marc:She's a genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you like her?
Guest:A lot.
Marc:I saw Dave Cross yesterday.
Guest:Yeah, I saw him a little bit at the very end.
Marc:Oh, he came by?
Guest:No, just his thing.
Marc:Oh, because I was the day before, but I knew he was in town.
Marc:I was with my brother.
Marc:I went down to Venice, and he was wandering around.
Marc:And I said, I said, I'm going to interview Jay Maskis tomorrow.
Marc:And he's like, okay.
Marc:Let me know how that goes.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:It's going fucking great.
Marc:Yeah, thanks.
Marc:How do you feel about it?
Marc:Pretty good.
Marc:Now, can you explain to me, like I listened to the last acoustic album that you did.
Marc:What's it called?
Marc:Several Shades of White.
Marc:Yeah, and that thing is pretty sweet, man.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:And you seem very comfortable just playing the guitar and singing more so than you usually do from way back.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like with nothing kind of in between it.
Marc:Now, like when you write songs, I mean, what's that process?
Marc:Do you just sit there and wait for shit to come?
Guest:Yeah, just watch TV and play guitar and hope something comes up and record little bits on the iPhone and put the bits together some other time.
Guest:Like you just get a chunk and you're like, that's got to go in?
Guest:Yeah, and then I have all these little things and try to put them together and then...
Marc:There's a little twang on there too.
Marc:It's got a little country thing going on a couple of them.
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:The Mick Jagger country.
Marc:Yeah, Mick Jagger country on there.
Marc:Twanging that fake southern accent.
Marc:Do you like country?
Guest:Yeah, I just saw George Jones the other night.
Guest:He was like 80 years old.
Guest:It was kind of amazing.
Guest:He could barely sing.
Marc:Where'd you see him?
Guest:Northampton.
Marc:greatest voice in country music really and he's still together kind of barely it was interesting it was great but he couldn't sing so well but he seemed to be having a good time did he banter at all because i saw my letterman and it got a little like it was a little like where are we going with this yeah it was a little out there but the other people in the band knew how to reign him in yeah like like he was departing on some fragments yeah there you go
Guest:That's great, George.
Marc:Yeah, how about we do that, the love bug.
Marc:Let's do that.
Guest:What other country guys do you like?
Guest:Willie?
Guest:Yeah, I love Willie and Merle, Townsman.
Marc:Oh, there's another guy with a heavy heart, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oof.
Marc:You can fucking hear it, man.
Marc:Do you have a heavy heart?
Guest:Sort of, I would say.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:But are you depressed or you just kind of feel things a little harder than other people?
Guest:I've been pretty depressed.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:My whole life, probably.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that part of the sort of like seventh grade, I'm out?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did it manifest itself?
Marc:Like a sensitivity to things that other people didn't feel as much or sort of like feeling isolated?
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know, neither, just kind of, I'm not sure, just, you know, people thought I was an asshole.
Guest:Were you?
Guest:Yeah, sometimes, you know.
Marc:Like, in what form?
Marc:Like, get away from me, or fuck you, your dumb hair is stupid?
Guest:Yeah, no, this lady, like, at college, the lady would be like,
Guest:It's not that you're ignoring me.
Guest:It's like you're walking by me as if I don't exist.
Guest:Complete detachment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Disturb people somehow.
Guest:Were you ever like violent?
Guest:Violent?
Guest:Tiny bits.
Guest:You know, my brother would beat me up a lot as a kid, so I'd have to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Spar.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was he older?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What did he end up doing?
Marc:Lawyer.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You guys get along?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's got a band now.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:He's got a lawyer band?
Guest:He used to have a lawyer band now.
Guest:He's the only lawyer in the band now.
Marc:But is it like Weekend Warrior type stuff?
Guest:It's really like my garage kind of.
Marc:What do they play?
Marc:Covers?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Originals.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you going to produce it?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I kind of gave up producing because I didn't... I became such an asshole as a producer.
Guest:I didn't enjoy it, so I just ended up abusing the band.
Guest:It's kind of a stupid profession, you know, like... You know, like...
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:It's kind of a scam.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:I don't know how to engineer, so I'm just paid to just kind of... Turn that up.
Guest:Just like, give me that guitar, I'll play it.
Guest:You guys suck, or whatever.
Marc:What bands have you produced?
Marc:I know you did that first Buffalo Tom record, but you've done a lot, haven't you?
Marc:I did Firehose, you mentioned.
Marc:Tad.
Marc:Tad!
Marc:He comes to my shows in Seattle, that dude.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Marc:Yeah, that's a big sound, huh?
Guest:Yeah, that was a fun record to produce, except my dad died at the end of it, so it kind of got depressing.
Guest:But I liked the record.
Guest:It came out pretty good.
Guest:Some Breeder stuff I produced.
Guest:After their big album, just some B-sides and stuff.
Guest:That's about it, I think.
Marc:What was the band?
Marc:Remember the Throwing Muses?
Marc:They were around.
Marc:She was pretty good, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Tanya and what was the lead singer's name?
Marc:Kristen Hirsch.
Guest:yeah and tanya donnelly yeah did the belly one right she did yeah their band called they were the bane of my existence to belly we were on the same label and every time we'd have an album out you know warner brothers decided to push belly instead of happen like in your song
Marc:you were like always the second one on the bus there belly first but they had what they had one or two records and that was sort of the end of it wasn't it and then both the records came out at the same time our records which record of yours uh where you've been and uh without a sound and who what label you on now
Guest:Jag Jaguar.
Marc:So you got all the freedom in the world there?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you always had freedom, really.
Guest:But the push, it's all on you now.
Marc:So do you take any medicine for your depression?
Guest:No.
Marc:Just ride it out?
Marc:Play the songs?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You get relief when you play?
Marc:sometimes wait do you like do you still get some joy when you write a song and you're like oh fuck yeah i'm not as depressed as i used to be yeah do you get oh that's what i wanted to ask you about there was that chanting record you know who gave me a bunch of your shit i hung out with rollins because i did some shows with him and he had a copy of beyond before it came out i don't know if you gave it to him
Marc:yeah he came with us to the festival yes the other day he's a great guy but he was like you know he he like i he said you want some music and i'm like yeah and i didn't realize i would be getting like every music yeah so he gave me a bunch of stuff that i didn't even realize i had until yesterday but there was that the one record that seemed to have sort of a an indian slant to it the meditation record what was the origin of that
Guest:uh the origin of that i was seeing i've been seeing this lady amachi who's like this indian guru comes to you know she basically hugs people yeah and she goes on tour in the states and she's also got a lot of charities in india and stuff and uh
Guest:And I was, I think I was in India the first time at her place and I was trying to play music.
Guest:She has a lot of music going on.
Guest:So people are playing and I'm playing one of her songs and it's my style is just not working.
Guest:It's like this crowd is not my crowd, you know, Indian people and just.
Marc:And spiritual people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:New age types.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just you're an Indian or old lady.
Marc:You were an Indian.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You went over there with her?
Guest:Yeah, I've been there quite a few times.
Marc:Amici is her name?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And would you call her your guru?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And I was realizing, you know, this isn't working with this crowd.
Guest:I'm just like, my thing just does not translate.
Guest:I want to sing, so I just kind of like...
Guest:so i kind of just wrote off one song to just try to see if i could somehow communicate to these people and you know it was kind of interesting to to try to play something that just to like mellow it out a little bit and in the same style of the music so you had that tabla kind of a rolling tabla sound and and did you have and it's you know call and answer kind of stuff
Marc:So that album is Sing and Chant.
Marc:No, that's Sing and Chant Amma is the name of a song.
Marc:But what's the album called?
Marc:Yeah, that's the name of the album.
Marc:When I first heard that, it wasn't even like a Ravi Shankar album.
Marc:It was just literally these records.
Marc:One was like tabla and one was like sitar.
Marc:And it was just kind of almost archival Indian music.
Marc:And I just couldn't believe how compelling it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was interesting.
Guest:Like Alma had a 50th birthday, you know, like, I don't know, years ago, like five or six years ago.
Guest:And in India, it was this big thing, like 2 million people came over a few days.
Guest:And I was like a studio musician for like white people there, you know, cause she was having all these different, you know, nationalities do their thing.
Guest:Like there's a river dance and there's some aboriginals from Australia doing some weird stuff.
Guest:And, um,
Guest:All the Indians, everything, you know, I'd play jazz with a jazz band and backup, like, country things.
Guest:I was just playing all sorts of stuff.
Guest:And the Indians are like, you know, there's 100,000 people in the stadium just staring blankly like they had no.
Guest:But there was this dude, you know, a heavy tabla guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The minute there was a tabla solo, like, the whole crowd's like...
Guest:you're just like wow it was intense that's their that's their instrument man yeah but every other thing is like blank stares all this stuff that they've never seen let the tablet guy jam they were psyched and what is the religion exactly that's not a religion she's just kind of there's no discipline to it doesn't she hasn't come from something she's kind of hindu based but you know a lot of different people from all kind of religions go see her and how do you gravitate towards that
Guest:Again, from depression, just kind of like, just kind of somebody told me to go, and I'm like, sure, I'll try anything.
Guest:What was your primary treatment for it?
Guest:Weed?
Marc:No, I've never been a big drug person.
Marc:Nothing?
Marc:You just kind of rode it out, and it got so overbearing that you're married, right?
Guest:Yeah, no, it was just kind of like, yeah, I had, you know, done well, you know, and
Guest:you know had a house and then like jaguar and the car yeah the car and the guitar and yeah you know i'm like you know i should be happy i should be happy i'm not happy and then you know like the bigger i would get the more depressed i would get kind of thing you know right so you know you realize it's not really helping out so
Marc:Did you feel that it was pressure or just biological?
Marc:Were you expecting too much out of yourself?
Guest:No, I just was like, you know, when it's that classic thing, you get all this stuff and you're like, this isn't it.
Marc:This still sucks, even worse.
Marc:So someone recommended that you go see this woman?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And where'd you first see her?
Marc:In New York.
Marc:And she was doing a thing.
Marc:And did it have an effect on you immediately?
Guest:uh yeah i mean i was into it i just uh were you skeptical at first like all right i'll go no i wasn't a big skeptic at the time i was just like anything that could help i was willing to check out you know and what what did she do yeah you just get a hug for you know stand in line to get a hug from her and she says some stuff in your ear and
Guest:Yeah, suddenly I just felt better.
Guest:So I went back and just kept going back every year.
Guest:What did she say in your ear?
Guest:She says some mantras.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:It's different.
Guest:Is it English?
Guest:No.
Guest:She does sometimes.
Guest:I mean, it's different every time.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Have you tried standing on line for a hug from anybody else?
Marc:Do you feel something when she touches you?
Marc:Is there an energy there?
Marc:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:And so you help her fundraise a bit?
Guest:Yeah, try to.
Marc:And how often do you go to India?
Guest:I haven't been there for a while since I had a kid.
Guest:I've probably been there five times or something.
Marc:Is there a practice involved?
Marc:Is there something you do every day?
Guest:I should, yeah.
Guest:She came up with like a meditation technique.
Marc:Is it difficult?
Guest:No, it's super easy.
Marc:Like what is it?
Marc:Because I could use help.
Guest:Yeah, it's really easy.
Guest:You can just take a one-day course and they'll teach it to you.
Marc:Is it a breathing thing or is there words?
Guest:It's all sorts of things.
Guest:There's always something going on, so you don't have to just sit there and do nothing.
Guest:Your mind's always occupied with something, so it's pretty easy.
Marc:And has a kid changed your life at all?
Marc:Do you have a son or a daughter?
Guest:Yeah, a son.
Guest:He's almost five.
Marc:And has that changed your life?
Guest:Oh, sure.
Marc:But are you finding some joy there, Jay?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Yeah.
Guest:It's interesting, you know.
Guest:I never thought I'd have a kid, you know, as a depressed punk kid going, I don't want to bring a kid into this horrible world.
Guest:Who would want to do such a thing?
Marc:What made you change?
Guest:Having a wife who wanted to change.
Guest:Yeah, that was the deal, huh?
Guest:But then as soon as I saw the kid, I was like, oh, he wants to be here.
Guest:It's not my deal.
Marc:Oh, that's a good way to look at it.
Guest:No, I felt that immediately.
Guest:I'm like, oh, it's no biggie.
Guest:He's definitely psyched.
Guest:So I don't have to feel bad.
Marc:Well, you're half expecting the kid to come out and go, oh, fuck.
Guest:Yeah, because I think that's how I felt.
Guest:I heard I was upside down in the womb with the cord wrapped around my neck.
Marc:I didn't want to come out.
Marc:That was the creation story you got about you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That you were hanging yourself from the umbilical cord in the womb.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, that's a hell of a burden to put on, guy.
Marc:but when you saw your kid he was like yeah yeah he was psyched oh my god how old is he now it's gonna be five oh so it's like it's it must be exciting yeah it's cool do you like music
Guest:Yeah, weird music, you know, just you play songs and the things he gravitates toward are weird.
Guest:Like he likes the New York Dolls and Heartbreakers and the Ramones.
Guest:You're like, was he like a punk from New York or something?
Marc:You didn't get Dee Dee.
Marc:Yeah, was it Dee Dee?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I hope it's not a reincarnation of Johnny Thunders.
Marc:You're up for some trouble, dude.
Guest:It's like, what's this?
Guest:I like this song.
Guest:You know, it's like personality crisis.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And just random other songs like Rain Parade, I don't know, just bands, I don't know.
Marc:But there's definitely music that he doesn't dig.
Guest:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Marc:Oh, that's funny, man.
Marc:Well, that's good music.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it's just weird that a lot of it was like New York, mid-70s.
Marc:Well, the Ramones are pretty fun.
Guest:Yeah, they're definitely a kid kind of band.
Marc:And I think a couple songs, the Dolls, like, you know, what's the one with the jungle beat?
Guest:Meanwhile, back in the jungle.
Marc:The jungle.
Marc:That's pretty fun.
Guest:Yeah, I don't even know if he's heard that one.
Guest:He's just, like, the hit, you know.
Guest:Personality Crisis?
Guest:Yeah, and Trash, and, like, the Heartbreaker song.
Marc:Sounds like you got your hands full.
Guest:Yeah, he's pretty raging, and he's totally, completely social, which is, of course, great for me.
Guest:I don't talk to anybody, but he'll talk to everybody.
Guest:Like, oh, that's my dad.
Guest:You know, just random people everywhere he's talking.
Guest:And you just go, hey.
Guest:Yeah, he's like, so that's good for me.
Marc:Your kid is actually taking you out into the world, making it open up a little bit.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:What's on your T-shirt there?
Guest:Oh, some Indian.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:That looks like an Alaska t-shirt or a Seattle t-shirt.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Some truck stuff kind of thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So do you want to play a song?
Guest:I could.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I can mic you.
Marc:I can do it.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah, I can do it.
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:You get your guitar.
Marc:I'll set a mic up.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Oh, there you go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't believe you just taught yourself how to do that.
Marc:Seriously?
Marc:I don't know what to tell you.
Guest:You don't have to tell me anything.
Guest:It's impressive.
Guest:Well, you know, I had a lot of drum lessons.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Maybe that kind of filtered through something.
Guest:You're a fucking spectacular guitar player.
Guest:so just do it start playing sure man listen to me i can't wait to see you
Guest:The pain's on me, I can't wait To be you, I can't wait To feel you, I can't wait Waiting's what we do
Guest:I'm not enough to give enough to you I wish there was a place we had made sense A place where we could rest and we would know The pain's on me I can't wait to be you I can't wait to feel you
Guest:Listen to me, I can't wait to see you I can't wait to be you I can't wait Should it take so long?
Guest:Something that's so real to come along
Guest:I feel the pull, I can't pay the price.
Guest:That don't make it right to leave it now.
Guest:What's left to leave, I can't wait.
Guest:I've done it in no stay.
Guest:Longing, I can't wait.
Guest:Listen to me, is it right To be here I can't find I can't when I'm not right Pain is what we do I got enough to make some more for you
Guest:I can't take so much before I pray.
Guest:Knowing what's at stake, it's all I do.
Guest:Listen to me.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That was amazing.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:You want to do another one?
Guest:Uh, sure.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I love it, man.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:This is like the best show I've ever been to.
Yeah.
Guest:I'll start.
Guest:I'll go back.
Guest:I'll go way back then.
Guest:Way back.
Guest:I feel your eyes upon me.
Guest:How should I activate?
Guest:To feel so unsure always.
Guest:Give up for now.
Guest:Keep on this way.
Guest:The silence taps my elbow.
Guest:It's good, at least that's what she said.
Guest:I could run, but I'd stand and greet it.
Guest:Baltimore won't stop as long as I'm defeated.
Guest:The world drips down like gravy.
Guest:The thoughts of love so hazy.
Guest:Everyone's ideal of fun.
Guest:Repulsion.
Guest:Try and wake up Try and break it open It's not quite the right feeling I'll just keep on hoping
Guest:The girls that smile and say hello And darkness drags me back home It's hard to face it Still waiting, still alone The world dips down like gravy Thoughts of love so hazy Everyone's ideal of fun
Guest:Try and wake up Try and break it open It's not quite the right feeling I'll just keep on hoping The world dips down like gravy Thoughts of love so hazy Everyone's ideal of fun Repulsion
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:That was awesome.
Marc:Thanks a lot for being here, Jay.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:How great was that listening to him play guitar and sing?
Marc:How great was that?
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I can't even believe it happened.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Wow, I just shit my pants.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, available at WTFPod.com.
Marc:Look, that's our show.
Marc:I hope you dug it.
Marc:It's a very rare thing to hear Jay Mascus play acoustic guitar and sing in a garage.
Marc:It's rare.
Marc:So what else?
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Kicking a few shekels.
Marc:Get some merch.
Marc:Check the episode guide.
Marc:See who's been on.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:Upgrade to the premium app.
Marc:There's another Mark and Tom show going to be in the pipe.
Marc:When I go to Philly, me and Tom are going to do a conversation jam.
Marc:We're going to jam some talk.
Marc:He's going to come down.
Marc:We're going to do a hotel room hang and get into it.
Marc:So we're hoping to get a couple of Mark and Tom shows in the can.
Marc:I'm looking forward to some upcoming guests on the show.
Marc:Going to be interviewing Lucinda Williams soon.
Marc:I'm beside myself.
Marc:About that.
Marc:Beside myself.
Marc:I don't even know if I'm going to be able to keep it together.
Marc:December 68th, Helium in Philly.
Marc:Wilbur Theater in Boston with a live WTF and a stand-up show.
Marc:That's February 8th.
Marc:That's a Friday.
Marc:I will be announcing tour dates for next year soon.
Marc:Remember, go easy on yourself, will you?
Marc:They're not that bad.
Marc:And Boomy lives!
you