Episode 329 - Tim Heidecker
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuck sticks what the fuck heads what the fuck of bulls what the fucking ears
Marc:I threw in a couple there that I don't usually throw in because I think that they don't necessarily have a positive connotation, but what the fuck sticks and what the fuck heads.
Marc:But, you know, I think that we can handle it now.
Marc:I think we've gotten to that point where we can handle it.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF, the show, the podcast, coming into your head vis-a-vis whatever your delivery system might be.
Marc:Car, headphones.
Marc:I don't think you're going to be listening to me through a tube amplifier.
Marc:The silence has been broken, my friends.
Marc:Tim Heidecker of Tim and Eric is on the show today, and he gets pretty real.
Marc:I mean, we find out a lot about him and his new movie, The Comedy, which I enjoyed a great deal.
Marc:It's a very dark and upsetting, lyrical, poetic film.
Marc:But it was great to talk to him because I always wanted to get to know him.
Marc:And so we'll talk to Tim Heidegger in a few minutes.
Marc:Heidegger.
Marc:Heidegger.
Marc:Tim.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Look, it's the weekend for me.
Marc:This is Sunday.
Marc:And I know you're hearing this on Monday.
Marc:And the weekend's all I got.
Marc:It's all I got now.
Marc:I'm shooting the show.
Marc:It's very thrilling.
Marc:I'm starting to see cuts and versions of whole shows.
Marc:It's definitely me.
Marc:A lot of me.
Marc:But the weekends are important because I need to pull out.
Marc:I need to pull out of the process of shooting all day, shooting 10 pages of script a day, which is a lot, and then getting home and memorizing 10 pages of script.
Marc:The weekends are actual weekends.
Marc:I need to relax and sit down and unwind and eat things that I shouldn't.
Marc:So last weekend, we had the crisis with Monkey.
Marc:And by the way, there is no Boomer yet.
Marc:But as we know, Boomy lives.
Marc:Had the monkey puke crisis, which turns out to be an ongoing thing.
Marc:I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with that.
Marc:I guess cats are pukey, but he was never a pukey cat.
Marc:But now he's pukey and a lot more lovable.
Marc:He doesn't seem sick.
Marc:I don't know what to do with it.
Marc:I don't know how many times you can go to the vet and get x-rays and get tested and get everything else for them to go.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:But so Friday, let's go over the weekend because it's been pretty exciting because it wasn't cat related.
Marc:But Friday night I got home and Jessica and I went out to dinner and then we had a fight.
Marc:horrible fight we didn't uh we we didn't storm out of a restaurant but we didn't go to a restaurant there was some street action some yelling on the street which is always good uh that's i i know that uh i'm still uh i i the fortunate thing about not being a real celebrity is that uh i can still fight on the street without uh without anybody tweeting about it or taking pictures of it i'd like to stay at that level if you don't mind just a uh you know
Marc:a specific an acquired taste celebrity that people know from what you're listening to now so there was a little of that and then there was a little fighting in the car then there was the uh sort of like we're done with this uh but you know i i did something proactive that i had not done before and that is i knew that the journey from the restaurant we didn't eat at to the house was fairly important because if we'd gotten to the house and the fight was still continuing the drama would have continued uh there would have been clothing uh packed and and and just you know horrible
Marc:And I'm exhausted at this point.
Marc:So I pulled the car over and I said, well, what are we going to do?
Marc:I don't want to get home and continue this.
Marc:Can we stop it?
Marc:Is there a way that we can stop the momentum of this?
Marc:And I was already winded by the yelling.
Marc:And we did.
Marc:We pulled it together.
Marc:We went out to dinner and had a sullen dinner where I detached and looked off into the distance and did the dude-brewed sulk.
Marc:And we regrouped.
Marc:We pulled it together.
Marc:It was not an easy evening.
Marc:But these things happen.
Marc:This is what love is.
Marc:This is what love entails.
Marc:Occasionally, hopefully not...
Marc:A lot, but you got to blow it up, tear it down, and then get closer.
Marc:And I think that's what we have.
Marc:I think that's what happened.
Marc:I did make the mistake of mentioning the possibility that it would be nice to live in a house that had another bathroom.
Marc:So now, somehow or another, she's looking at homes.
Marc:And I'm not ready to do that, but I forget that if you bring anything up like that,
Marc:uh say a child or a home with a woman you're in a relationship with you will be uh in bed looking you will be sort of drifting off to sleep and and and be bumped with look at this one and there will be an ipad in your face with a house in mount washington but
Marc:Not happening yet.
Marc:Still staying in the garage.
Marc:I'm tied in.
Marc:But then, after all is said and done, and this is in the ether, the home thing, Saturday night, last night, I noticed a puddle beneath my toilet, and so I had to deal with that.
Marc:Why is there a puddle beneath my toilet?
Marc:I have no understanding how plumbing works or why, but I knew the toilet was loose, but that didn't seem to be a problem.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:I thought a toilet was more complicated.
Marc:A toilet is just something that provides enough water to get your crap and whatever you put in it into that pipe.
Marc:You know, really a toilet is just sitting over a hole that is a pipe.
Marc:And apparently my toilet was just sitting over a hole with nothing holding it on.
Marc:Could have just been, you know, we just used a hole.
Marc:So that's what's happening today, Sunday.
Marc:I've got two plumbers here that are drilling, grinding, digging out cast iron, putting cement in, putting a new pipe top to screw the toilet on and wax.
Marc:And then I also had the guy do an arthroscopy.
Marc:Is that what you call it?
Marc:Where you get a camera shot up your veins to look at your heart?
Marc:Well, we did that with my sewer line.
Marc:Been a very exciting day.
Marc:Very relaxing.
Marc:but it was fun to look at my pipes.
Marc:I'm thinking about going to get, is it called an arthroscopy?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'd like to, I know Scoppy is in there, but I'd kind of like to see my body pipes.
Marc:It kind of made me think like, well, we can do this with veins.
Marc:I might as well go see if there's any roots growing into my veins or there's any grease stuck along the sides of my arteries.
Marc:I'm in denial about that.
Marc:And I was in denial about my house too.
Marc:You just want things to go smoothly, but eventually, eventually the roots will win.
Marc:both in your house and in your plumbing and in your life.
Marc:It's all about roots.
Marc:We all end up being sucked up into trees and providing oxygen for the rest of us.
Marc:The roots will win.
Marc:In the name of transparency, because it's going to happen, you're going to realize it anyway.
Marc:Um,
Marc:I don't know what I was thinking.
Marc:I don't know if it was because of my experience with Tim and Eric.
Marc:I'd like to give myself some credit on a subconscious level for attempting something, for creating some sort of disgusting tension during the interview.
Marc:I was eating my breakfast for the first little bit of this interview, and...
Marc:I think it was in honor of Tim Heidecker.
Marc:It doesn't last for the whole interview.
Marc:And if the joke is lost on some of you and you just find it irritating, I apologize in advance.
Marc:But it is a good interview, and it's not for the entire interview.
Marc:So bear with me.
Marc:And for those of you who appreciate it as a sort of tribute to Tim and Eric, and out of respect for Tim, I ate on Mike during our conversation, then you guys can take it that way.
Marc:Is this a big rationalization?
Marc:Perhaps.
Marc:Perhaps it is.
Marc:Is it an apology?
Marc:Perhaps.
Marc:Let's talk to Tim Heidegger.
Marc:Look at that.
Marc:You're in the garage.
Marc:Hey, thanks for having me.
Marc:Tim Heidecker.
Marc:Heidecker.
Marc:Heidecker.
Marc:So did that just make you mad that I said Heidecker?
Marc:I didn't mean to say like a G. Heidecker.
Guest:No, it's okay.
Marc:I was nervous about this.
Marc:I don't mean to eat.
Marc:You're nervous.
Guest:I'm nervous.
Marc:I've never done this before.
Marc:I've never eaten.
Guest:Oh, you're nervous about eating and talking to anybody?
Marc:Well, no, I'm nervous about talking to you, but I made the breakfast, and I don't know if it's going to work out.
Marc:But it seems that you're familiar with.
Marc:I mean, when I watch some of your stuff, there's always things going in mouths.
Guest:Okay, so you're doing a bit.
Marc:Not doing a bit.
Marc:I've got to eat.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, we did schedule this weeks in advance.
Guest:Can I have a coffee?
Guest:I had breakfast before I came.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What did you have?
Guest:I just had some toast with some... Marmite?
Guest:No, some sunflower seed butter.
Guest:You ever have that?
Guest:No.
Marc:I mean, I think, oh, no, I think I had it on an airplane once.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is that where you first had it?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Like in one of those boxes?
Marc:You ever get the boxes on a plane?
Guest:Oh, right, little snack packs.
Guest:Snack boxes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they had the sunflower butter on.
Guest:Well, it's interesting.
Guest:You're nervous to talk to me.
Guest:I'm nervous to talk to you.
Guest:So that should create some kind of stability.
Guest:Well, I hope so.
Guest:Why are you nervous to talk to me?
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Marc:um well i think it it kind of blew up into a bigger thing than it needed to be that i wasn't going to do the show or we weren't going to do the show right i think that's true i you know i i think that's true i i mean we had an honest conversation about it you were like um i saw you guys at a party uh you and eric and i said you want to do it and you're like and the the consensus was we don't want to talk about what we do
Guest:Yeah, there's some of that.
Guest:There's some also, to be perfectly honest, you know, you've always struck me as a very intimidating kind of guy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just as a comedian, as a person that I would see from afar.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You, you know, kind of intimidated me and, you know...
Marc:i didn't know you very well i didn't know you personally i just was like maybe this is a guy i should just stay away from really yeah a little bit i because i always felt that i was always intimidated by you guys because well you and i don't i have not had many run-ins uh with eric really i saw him at the the cafe tropical once uh-huh uh having coffee yeah and i i kind of hung around to see if he knew me and he didn't and he didn't register so i was just that guy
Marc:And I've run into you a few times.
Marc:But I was intimidated by you, too, because, honestly, you're one of those people who I've decided, like, every time I see you, I'm thinking, like, is he fucking with me?
Marc:I mean, is he fucking with me?
Marc:He's kind of fucking with me, right?
Marc:What just happened there?
Marc:In person?
Marc:Well, it's gotten better.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I think if we're going to be honest, knowing that you were intimidated by me, maybe you were just uncomfortable.
Marc:I was probably uncomfortable.
Marc:I gave you too much credit.
Guest:I'm getting more comfortable around you, but at first it was... Because, first of all, I knew you originally as just a comic that I saw on TV.
Guest:You didn't like me, though, right?
Guest:No, seriously, you can be honest with me.
Guest:I did like... I'm not your cup of tea.
Guest:But I'll tell you...
Guest:I'll tell you, this is funny, and it's about, it says more about the way I understood how comedy works than about you.
Guest:But I saw you at the Luna Lounge in like 2001 or something in New York.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was just, I wasn't in comedy.
Guest:I was, you know, I was trying to figure out my life and everything.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Were you friends with Eric yet?
No.
Guest:Yeah, I've been friends with Eric since college, but we were not really pursuing a career together necessarily.
Guest:But I saw you, and it was at the Luna Lounge, and you told this.
Guest:All I remember is you said, this isn't a joke.
Guest:You set up a joke by saying, this isn't a joke, this is a true story.
Guest:It was, frankly.
Guest:And it was, but then the next night I saw you on Conan, and you said the same thing.
Guest:And you said, this isn't a joke.
Guest:This is true.
Guest:I'm not trying to be funny.
Guest:And I was like, that's a scam.
Guest:This whole thing is a scam.
Guest:But like I said, that's more about, that's a confession about how little I knew about the process.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:I think that I was probably, if it was the next night, it was probably a true story.
Guest:I'm sure it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, I mean, that part's not really a scam.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No.
Marc:And like I said, I completely understand and I would do the same thing.
Marc:No, but I think that right there is a core of something interesting.
Marc:That's what I believe.
Marc:Because I know before we became kind of friends, I think we became a little closer when we did that video together and we'd see each other more often and be like, hey, he's a normal guy, kind of, and I can handle it.
Guest:Well, when you came up and asked us to be on the podcast in person, it was almost like we got cornered, like, why don't you do the show?
Guest:And I was at a party.
Guest:The first reaction to that was like, whoa, back off, dude.
Guest:But it was at a party, right?
Guest:It was at a party.
Guest:I was just trying to have fun, just trying to enjoy myself.
Marc:Yeah, and I kept pestering you every five minutes.
Guest:Like, what's up with the... Why don't you... That was the energy.
Guest:And that energy... I want to get away from that energy as much as possible.
Guest:I don't understand, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's the problem?
Guest:And then the other thing that...
Guest:The other thing that happened, then I started listening to the show and I thought the show was great, but there was also sort of that concern of like, am I going to have to go on the show and defend my life?
Guest:Am I going to have to go on there and explain myself to you?
Guest:And why should I?
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:No, why should I do that for that guy?
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:You know there are people that care.
Guest:Well, I know there's people that care, but also I think sometimes you can go around in circles and it doesn't get you anywhere.
Guest:But also that I've heard some other interviews where it's been, you know, somebody like Chris Elliott or somebody where he's older, there's a perspective that he can have on his own career that I don't think I can have at this point because I'm just, I'm still in the middle of the fucking hurricane.
Marc:Well, I think what's interesting is what you said about stand-up, is that this is a scam, it was the moment that you sort of realized, because I don't get the feeling that you would generally be a guy, and I'm projecting, who would be like, I'm a huge stand-up comedy fan.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, I like stand-up comedy for sure.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But before we became closer, I'm not saying we're best friends or anything, but before we were comfortable with each other.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you started coming around the comedy store with Morgan Murphy to do your... Well, I did it once.
Guest:It was not like I was coming around.
Guest:You're prepared.
Guest:I was trawling around.
Marc:Well, you sit there in your car going, he's probably going to hit me with that thing with the character.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, no, I'd love to talk about that character.
Marc:Well, the weird thing is, is that when he first started doing it, or when I saw you do it that one time at the Comedy Store, you're doing basically your sort of open mic character or an amateur comic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Which is something I've kind of seen before.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You know, people do that.
Marc:Amateur comics do it, but people have done that bit before.
Marc:But then I was sort of like, he's fucking mocking my thing.
Marc:No.
Marc:I took it very personally.
Marc:I'm like, this fucking guy comes into my house.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Well, I shouldn't do it.
Guest:I mean, it's not really fair to do it at the comedy store, I don't think.
Guest:But then when you did it at the one... Where were we?
Guest:In Vancouver?
Guest:In Vancouver.
Guest:It worked great.
Guest:People loved it.
Guest:When you have an audience that likes our stuff or my stuff, then it works.
Guest:And it's...
Guest:evolved a little bit where it's not just a performance piece of fucking with the audience right it's there's there's a character there and it's just a character exactly it's just a character that i like to do exactly but that added to my to my tension or my aggravation and your discomfort around me because i was like it's okay yeah yeah you come into our world and just shit on our yard well i know when i saw you at the vancouver thing the first what are you doing your little character you're gonna do your little character tonight your little your little guy that doesn't know how to tell jokes
Marc:Is that what I said?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I'm like, it's just what I do.
Guest:It's just my idea.
Guest:Was that hurtful?
Guest:No.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:Again, it put me in that defensive position of, you know what, dude?
Guest:I'm not doing your show.
Guest:You can keep circling around this white whale.
Marc:You're not getting it.
Marc:I did that to James O'Domey the other night, too.
Marc:What'd you do with him?
Marc:i'd be a i'm a dick man i'm a dick sometimes i gotta well yeah and i think it's okay to be a dick sometimes i mean i don't well why do i mean i don't know why i do it right because i'm obviously intimidated like because the tim and eric stuff i like that shit man i'm you know i'm a genuine fan of of the of the way you were able to extract weirdness and funny out of things i mean to me
Marc:It represents a type of comedic anarchy and freedom that I'm certainly not capable of.
Marc:I appreciate it.
Marc:I can put it into context and say, like, you know, that, you know, I get it.
Marc:Is that all right?
Guest:I'm glad to hear you get it.
Guest:And I enjoy it.
Guest:I was worried you were going to say, listen, I don't get your stuff.
Guest:No, no, I mean.
Guest:No, because you've said really nice things about us on the show.
Guest:Listen, you know, I've...
Marc:Right, I mean, I think there's some part of me that thinks, like, if I can't see myself doing something, then it's not for me.
Marc:And that ranges from a lot of different things.
Marc:And I think I get intimidated where it's like, I don't understand how the fuck it works or what the process is, and I'm not even sure that you could explain it necessarily.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Why the absurdity and there's certain, like, I would imagine that Tim and Eric's stuff, like, intellectuals could, you know, kind of fester over it for a while.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And sort of read levels.
Guest:There's lots of college papers written about our stuff that are fun to read.
Guest:Have you read them?
Guest:Sometimes they go a little too deep where it's like, no, sorry.
Guest:We're not thinking that hard about it.
Marc:Do you remember any of that shit?
Guest:Well, there's one good one out there that a girl wrote about explaining our comedy to your parents that is online.
Guest:But it...
Guest:Some of it's, I think, you know, it's not all just base.
Guest:It couldn't be all just base surface level stuff.
Guest:It would be insane.
Guest:So there's a lot of, you know, core beliefs that I think Eric and I both have that go into everything we do.
Guest:What are they?
Guest:That, you know, the world is an absurd, idiotic, strange, you know, confusing, dark place from time to time.
Guest:And it needs to be goofed on and, you know...
Guest:And the idea of entertainment and celebrity and comedy itself is kind of crazy and up for debate about what that is.
Marc:I get hung up on the stuff I like the best is when you play with the whole kind of public access format and cheap commercials.
Marc:I don't know how you get that vibe.
Guest:It's something we just worked on for a long time, I guess.
Guest:We grew up with it.
Guest:We know it very intimately.
Guest:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Marc:So you both grew up in Pennsylvania?
Guest:Eric grew up outside of Philadelphia, which is in Pennsylvania.
Guest:I think Pennsylvania has a darkness.
Guest:It really does.
Guest:I don't know what it is.
Guest:Allentown, in particular, where I grew up, is a very... It's a Pennsylvania Dutch area.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's sort of an old steel town, you know.
Guest:Didn't Billy Joel write a song about it?
Guest:Billy Joel wrote a song about it.
Guest:Which means there was trouble.
Guest:There's trouble there.
Guest:The people there in general, I'll probably get...
Guest:you know, shit for this, but are kind of, you know, they're not the nicest people in the world.
Guest:They're kind of bummed out and kind of unhealthy and, you know, just like, it's certainly a place where I wanted to get out of.
Guest:There's an evolution of working class disappointment and religion.
Guest:And general grumpiness, I think, like a German kind of sourness.
Guest:How German?
Guest:Great-grandfather was from Germany.
Guest:Parents, no one with an accent in the family?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:My grandfather was a very nationalistic German type.
Guest:Loved, you know, the map of Germany on the wall.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No Hitler stuff, though, no.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:No?
Guest:No, he was in the Coast Guard.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:In the United States of America.
Marc:Good save.
Marc:But there is a kind of like, I think the whole state is a little dark.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I've driven through it.
Marc:It's a huge state, and there does seem to be a slight menace to it.
Marc:I think it has something to do with the odd religions, Mennonites, the Amish.
Marc:Amish, yeah.
Marc:There's something primitive about it, but then there's also that dark kind of like failed industry thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:A lot of disappointment and strange arcane religions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Allentown is a very small center city area that when I was growing up got completely abandoned.
Guest:Everybody fled to the suburbs and everybody was in the suburbs going to malls and swimming pools.
Marc:And when you were a kid, like when you were driving around, did you have a car?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, in high school?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was it?
Guest:I had an orange Capri.
Guest:Was it a hand-me-down?
Guest:Yeah, I kind of remember.
Guest:It's like the Mustang.
Guest:It's like the Lincoln Mustang.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was it a hand-me-down or you got it used?
Guest:No, I got it used.
Guest:My dad had a Ford dealership, actually.
Guest:Oh, you looked out.
Guest:I got something for you.
Guest:Yeah, but no, it was from the used lot.
Guest:Yeah, no, no, that's what I mean.
Guest:It was not a new car.
Marc:He's like, this is your first car, I'll give you a break on it.
Guest:The first car I had, I can't remember, it was just a brown, you know, LD, LXD or whatever, you know, some generic brown car from the late 70s.
Guest:That got totaled before I ever drove it.
Guest:It was sitting on the street and somebody rammed into it.
Guest:That was the end of that.
Marc:So the first day you got your car, like your dad brought it home?
Guest:Yeah, then somebody backed into it and crushed it.
Marc:And you went outside to drive your car?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That might have been the beginning of everything.
Marc:Yeah, so life is cruel.
Marc:Was your dad a funny guy?
Marc:Did he do the thing where he cut you deals?
Marc:Like, look, so I'll give you a good deal on this car?
Guest:Yeah, you wore the plaid sport coat.
Guest:Did he?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He was...
Guest:he was my dad's great he's really funny and really um like sarcastic and wry and and uh god my voice gets low when you talk about your dad father yeah um i like him yeah no very you know we would i have memories of just uh because because it wasn't that long ago uh how old are you uh 36 yeah
Guest:um you know watching watching like televangelists on tv together and watching bad tv and yeah and goofing on it and laughing about it so there's a lot of like a general skepticism about the world no religion in the house we were catholic grew up catholic really catholic school um we weren't very you know strict about it or anything you didn't believe in hell
Guest:no no no still don't i mean my dad that's a great it's funny you bring that up because one day my dad came to me and said what do you think of all this stuff you know yeah because it was i was like 15 or something like that and i'm like i don't know and some actually kind of having some trouble with it and he's like do you believe in hell and i'm like no i don't think he's like yeah i don't either i think that's crazy you know yes but for them i think it was like compared to the public school it was a better option for me
Marc:It's good to have a funny dad.
Marc:Like, I think that dads can go either way.
Marc:Like, the asshole dad or the funny dad.
Marc:Or the dad that wasn't there.
Marc:The funny one's a good one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a good one to have.
Guest:Yeah, he wasn't all... It wasn't like just a... It wasn't a party.
Guest:It wasn't a party all the time.
Guest:But it was overall really great.
Guest:He had a, you know...
Guest:People talk about dads in our comedy and how, you know, we have a lot of dad humor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people think that we must have crazy dads, but we don't.
Guest:We have pretty good families.
Guest:What did you do in high school?
Guest:Were you like a wrestler or anything?
Guest:Yeah, I was a wrestler.
Guest:Still am.
Guest:I didn't know that.
Guest:No.
Marc:No?
Marc:Damn, I wish I got it.
Guest:No.
Guest:I was like, you know, I played music and did theater.
Guest:You're a guitar guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm the best comedy guitar player.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just won the award for that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:At the comedy store.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Did you not go to the auditions?
Guest:I missed it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No.
Marc:No, you didn't.
No.
Marc:A lot of comics play guitar.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I heard the Dylan song, or as much as I could get through.
Marc:Oh, you've got to get through to the end, man.
Marc:I do?
Marc:Yeah, there's a big payoff at the end.
Marc:Well, I started it, and it was very good.
Marc:It was very, what was it, 18 minutes long?
Marc:14.
Marc:And you got the jump on him and his new record?
Guest:Yeah, I read something somewhere that Dylan's new album was going to have a 14-minute song about the Titanic.
Guest:And I was with some friends.
Guest:I said, I should try to do that before it comes out.
Guest:Because how hard could it be?
Marc:To write a Dylan song about the Titanic?
Guest:Yeah, it's not hard at all.
Guest:because you just basically, you know, it's two chords and you look on Wikipedia about the Titanic and you just start, you know, writing facts and rhyming words and, you know, it's not that tricky.
Guest:It was just about seeing it through.
Guest:Have you heard his?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I did a better job.
Guest:I think it...
Guest:One of the jokes in my song is halfway through, I start talking about the movie Titanic.
Guest:I start talking about how James Cameron got... So then I find out before Dylan's song comes out that Dylan's song mentions Leonardo DiCaprio in his song twice.
Marc:Now, when you do something like that, is it like a shot at Dylan?
Guest:I mean, I love Bob Dylan.
Guest:He's one of my favorite guys.
Guest:But there's a lot to laugh at about him as well.
Marc:Especially now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, he's one of those guys where it's sort of like, I think that in order to feel alive, he just keeps putting music out.
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot to explore there.
Guest:And I wasn't mean.
Guest:I'm not trying to be mean about it.
Guest:I just thought, you know, I think he's a, you know, there's a target there that's pretty big.
Guest:And I don't think, I'm sure he hasn't heard it.
Guest:I'm sure he doesn't know anything about it.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I mean, he wants to.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:Maybe he's one of those guys that's on the internet, like at three in the morning, just Googling Bob Dylan.
Guest:Well, he's got kids and grandkids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:I've got to figure one of the... I would hope he would consider it an homage.
Marc:Yeah, plenty.
Marc:I mean, people have done impressions of him before.
Marc:He can't be that sensitive.
Marc:I would hope that he still is cognizant enough to know.
Marc:They're like, what?
Guest:He might think that it's him.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:That's a good one.
Marc:You forgot about that one.
Marc:So, when you... Did you do comedy shit in high school?
Guest:Not really.
Marc:I feel like I'm actually a child interviewing you.
Guest:Like, what about that time you...
Guest:No, it never seemed like a thing that would ever be possible to do.
Guest:What were your hobbies?
Guest:I mean, you were playing guitar, so you played in bands?
Guest:I played in bands, had a lot of bands.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Not a lot, you know, three or four different bands.
Marc:Were you the lead guitar player?
Guest:Martin I was a singer song what was the name of the band oh we had the worst names what do you got ready uh time and other things nice time and other things that's a long one that's like an album title not a band name shaggy's belt buckle come on yeah I mean come on we were 15 years old yeah and we didn't know what's okay give me the pulsating libidos really yeah that was a pretty this is fun was that the new wave band
Guest:They weren't, no, there was no, it was all like Beatle-y, kind of like we were all into the Beatles.
Guest:Did you do original songs?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do any covers?
Marc:I think we did a couple covers, yeah.
Marc:What's the set list for... Oh, God, I don't remember.
Marc:For Shaggy's Belt Buckle.
Guest:Shaggy's Belt Buckle had a lot of humorous songs.
Guest:Listen, I think that's enough about Shaggy's Belt Buckle.
Guest:Well, then what's...
Guest:Which band were you most proud of?
Guest:Which group?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Were there repeated?
Guest:I think Pulsating Libidos is the group.
Guest:We went in the studio and made a demo.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That was when we were like, let's go for this.
Guest:What's on?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Just the thoughts in my head.
Guest:Part two.
Guest:That was the big one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was your hit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Didn't get a lot of radio play on that.
Guest:Did you press it?
Guest:No, we had a cassette.
Guest:Oh, you did that?
Guest:Yeah, we had about 25 cassettes.
Guest:But, you know, this was like before the internet and everything.
Guest:And it's like, that was, I remember going to a bookstore and buying this book that was like the guide for live, like how to tour a band or something.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was like this book that just had like all the clubs listed in the back.
Guest:And I was like 17 years old.
Guest:Start calling people up.
Guest:Yeah, like what are you supposed to do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're a band nowadays, it's like there's so many different ways you can get your music out.
Marc:But you must be happy, though, on some level that you were born then.
Marc:I mean, like, because all of the comedy you do is just, you know, it's informed by these arcane technologies.
Marc:Like, you know, like, the way... Like, I kind of miss it.
Marc:That's why it's weird when I watch the Tim and Eric stuff, because...
Marc:It seems very familiar to me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And not necessarily, like, it hits these triggers.
Marc:Like, I'd imagine somebody born in 1987 or 1988 is not going to, like, I feel like, I feel, for some reason, I feel wood-paneled game rooms.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I feel like that whole public access thing of, like, turning, you know, hitting that channel, wrestling shows, like, local, regional wrestling.
Marc:Local wrestling, sure.
Guest:like there's that element yeah and all that stuff is stuff that i grew up with but i guess it's still out there but it's certainly not hard it's not easy to find no yeah i don't really that's interesting about the about a younger person watching our stuff i don't know what it is about it for them because for us yeah for me and there's a nostalgia to it for sure it's not necessarily a good memory
Marc:No, no, but it's a weird memory.
Marc:I think the thing you guys capture is there's definitely something off and haunting about seeing that type of television when you're a kid.
Guest:I remember when I was a kid, the original Doctor Who, not the original, but that 70s Doctor Who, I remember when that was on PBS, I have a very distinct memory of feeling like that show was being made in my basement and it was coming up onto my television.
Guest:And it was so scary because it was so cheap and it looked like stuff was going to fall down.
Guest:And I was so scared of the basement because that's where I thought Doctor Who came from.
Guest:And, you know, that's the feeling we try to get in the show is this... Doctor Who's in the basement.
Guest:Yeah, Doctor Who's in the basement.
Marc:That is the oeuvre?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or the...
Marc:Well, I remember doing a public access show, like doing stand-up on one in the 80s, like in the mid-80s.
Marc:There was a guy who got a deal to do a show, and I never really paid a lot of attention to public access, but we went to this public access studio, and it's exactly what you think.
Marc:There's like one camera.
Marc:Blue curtains.
Marc:well that was the weird thing it's like it was a tiny room and and it was comedy and he's like yeah bring a couple of friends so there's like four chairs for for people to sit there as an audience yeah and there's a little studio and he had just hung this this burlap flap and put a platform up and like i watched it on tv like it was like my first tv thing just me standing in front of a burlap flap and occasionally they would cut away to this guy scott
Marc:who was laughing a lot.
Marc:There was three people there, and they cut away to that one.
Marc:It's fun to do comedy to four people.
Marc:Yeah, but the whole thing, it looked exactly like you would think it looked.
Marc:There's a consistency to it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't want to jump up to the current time yet.
Marc:I know Bob Odenkirk told the story.
Marc:After you let the rock and roll dream die.
Marc:Yeah, spent way too much time on that.
Guest:In this interview, but no.
Guest:You go to college.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Guest:Temple University in Philadelphia.
Guest:That's where I met my current creative partner, Eric Wareheim.
Guest:Yeah, I'm familiar with him.
Guest:But that's a good school.
Guest:It was a state school.
Guest:It was one of two choices I gave myself.
Guest:I'm going to go here or Allentown College.
Marc:But you weren't a nerdy guy.
Marc:There's no nerdiness about you, really, that I'm finding.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:yeah i mean you were a rock guy i was i wasn't yeah i guess so i was a i was into theater i guess that would be kind of nerdy so you did rock and theater i did rock theater mostly yeah like god godspell jesus christ superstar hair right you did theater in high school tommy um yeah i did something i i was part of a a community theater actually not in not really high school theater the community theater like real deal theater
Marc:Like the Allentown Players.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:We did, you know, this sounds very base to say first, but we did Our Town.
Guest:And we did Grapes of Wrath and the musicals.
Guest:And you were in high school?
Guest:I was in high school.
Marc:What'd you play in Grapes of Wrath?
Guest:Did you say paw?
Guest:I was like the narrator.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:The production had a narrator, and I was actually playing guitar and singing little songs in between the scenes.
Guest:How did it go over?
Guest:Did people come to the show?
Guest:Booze, just booze and walkouts.
Guest:Stop it, stop it.
Guest:No, it was fine.
Guest:I mean, the experience being in that theater and working, more importantly, working with very...
Guest:for allentown very sophisticated you know a lot of people from new york a lot of gay people uh gay guys that i would be working with you know that were older that had sort of a life experience and were very cool and turned me on to a lot of cool movies and cool music you know why um do you why do you feel oh you're saying they were gay because you'd never met gay people before necessarily i didn't not nobody besides maybe you know the the my mom's hairdresser yeah you know
Guest:So you're like, these are working gay people.
Guest:I mean, when you're 16, when do you have that?
Guest:Going to Catholic school in a small town, when do you have that opportunity?
Marc:Yeah, because they're all repressed and priests.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:But to have an out gay person.
Guest:They're all the clergy.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:but no that's these guys were really cool and they were total mentors for me and they represented the big city and people have had a life yeah like the guy this guy Bill Sanders who was the director was like had the Buddy Holly glasses wore all black had long hair you know liked cool music was a democrat you know like yeah proud Clinton like was voting for Clinton and
Marc:you know and just like and and also really talented and taught me a lot of stuff you know you need that i talked to a lot of guys about that the guy that kind of blew your mind and made you realize that like holy shit there's other things out there yeah but isn't it funny that like you remember the horn rim glasses worn in a hipster way yeah it's sort of like oh this guy that right yeah yeah it resonates man the first guy you meet to take those weird risks like he doesn't look like anybody i know he had the black converse you know
Guest:high tops and the black jeans and the black sweater, and it was like, wow, this guy's cool.
Marc:And what did you, when you were doing theater, so you were still, you were like 17?
Marc:Yeah, between like, I mean, I did it from when I was like 12 to when I graduated.
Marc:So like, what was some of the stuff?
Marc:Like, did he tell you about like productions and things where it's sort of like,
Guest:In the big city, we used to... Yeah, well, he was known because he was like the assistant director for the Broadway production of, oh, God, the big gay play that they made into a movie.
Guest:Boys and the Band?
Guest:No, the other one.
Marc:with tony uh tony kushner tony kushner is that ringing a bell yeah angels in america in america that's a great play yeah did you ever see it no wow no that thing was fucking insane so yeah he was he was a part of that production he was a part of that original production
Marc:I talked about it a lot.
Guest:Well, yeah, that was quite something.
Guest:I mean, I saw that play.
Guest:I always think about my dad during that period because my dad was fairly conservative in a lot of ways.
Guest:But a cool guy, grew up in the 60s, isn't completely closed-minded or anything.
Guest:But I always wonder what he thought of me kind of hanging around with these theater guys so much and wondering if there was a...
Guest:You never said anything?
Guest:No, I think there was one when my grades started going down in high school.
Guest:I didn't do the best in school.
Guest:I didn't either.
Guest:Couldn't do it.
Guest:Could not pay attention to that kind of stuff.
Guest:Chemistry?
Guest:No.
Guest:But he was like, you're spending too much time with this theater stuff.
Guest:So there was a little bit of that, but he was very cool about it.
Guest:Is he still around?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's great.
Marc:Well, the weird thing is that you're a pretty great actor.
Marc:So something sunk in.
Marc:You have a natural ability for it.
Marc:And I think, because I watched that movie, the one that's not a Tim and Eric movie.
Marc:The comedy.
Marc:Yeah, that's a... I like movies like that, and I'm not being condescending, because it's a real independent movie.
Marc:It's an independent movie that doesn't try to be a big-budget movie.
Marc:It's not trying to sell itself as a cute movie.
Marc:It's a poetic, lyrical exploration.
Marc:It's a challenging...
Marc:Definitely a challenging movie.
Marc:It's a challenging experience because as I watched the whole movie, it's called the comedy.
Marc:What's the director's name?
Marc:Rick Alverson.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've not watched his other films, but it's one of those movies where I studied film and I have a head for it, but you're not going to get much narrative.
Marc:There's not a lot of plot points.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You sort of have to fill in the blanks and put the story together almost towards the end of the film.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you get the whole... At the end of the film, I could see the sketch of the story and the characters.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's pretty heartbreaking and pretty intense movie.
Marc:But you were great in it.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:When you find yourself acting, because I think it's arguable that you have a way of being.
Marc:But I mean, I think you had to sort of fight to get that right.
Guest:I think so, yeah.
Guest:You know, that movie was, a lot of it was, I'm sure you could tell, improvised.
Guest:And it was the first movie, first thing I've ever done, really, where I had to kind of hold back and be, and not mug, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not play, not really.
Guest:Not repetitively mug in intervals.
Guest:Yeah, not, like, you know.
Guest:A classic Tim and Eric device.
Guest:Yeah, not staring into the camera and, you know, licking my lips.
Guest:For three minutes.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So I was really worried about that, that that would be my instinct is to like at least, you know, or go the opposite way of like looking really severe and serious and overdoing it.
Guest:It's very natural.
Guest:Yeah, thank you.
Guest:And a lot of that's, you know, the director and shooting a lot of stuff and editing and everything, getting the right stuff, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a real art movie, man.
Guest:It's a real art movie, and I'm really proud of it.
Guest:I mean, the director contacted me, and Eric's in it, and Greg Turkington's in it.
Guest:So he got a cast together that was very comfortable around each other and wanted it to be as genuine.
Guest:And he called me and said, I want to make a movie about the way guys like us kind of talk to each other and the way that...
Guest:we can use humor in a sort of very mean but not intentionally trying to hurt people kind of way but just as an experiment like these guys are experimenting with language and they're experimenting with how they communicate in a way and also I thought it was there like he seemed to be sort of whether he knew it I don't know what he comes from I don't know him
Marc:But it was sort of an interesting exploration of the kind of infantilized man that is the modern hipster.
Guest:Yeah, that was one of the first conversations was about these guys who are in their mid-30s that are still... And not that there's anything necessarily wrong with this, but that haven't gotten married or haven't kind of figured out their life yet necessarily.
Guest:That could be perfectly fine for a lot of people, but...
Guest:There are, I think, a lot of people that spent their 20s kind of just, you know, not really focusing on what they wanted to do with their life.
Guest:They're just kind of going through having fun and not really caring about much, not having like a value structure in their life.
Guest:Yeah, no sense of real goals or empathy.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And then suddenly you're like 36 or something and you're living in the, you know, you got rock posters up on the wall and you're like, you look like you did when you were in high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And just so that was part of what we wanted to talk about.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, the character that you play is sort of like it was familiar to me because I think if you did, you know, go to college or grow up, you know, in a group of people that it's definitely about, you know, middle class white people.
Marc:I could see that all the like the characters did not suffer much growing up.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's established my character is like, you know, going to.
Marc:is it comes from your trust fund kid yeah yeah trust fund but you know but there there is that weird lack of conscience or fear that uh that trust fund you know i mean i don't want to stereotype but i you know who's going to bust my balls for stereotyping trust hey i think you're a little hard on those rich kids
Marc:But it also had elements of, did you ever see that movie with James Caan, The Gambler?
Marc:No.
Marc:Where he plays a high school teacher who's addicted to gambling?
Marc:The element of your character that was interesting is that you were so detached from your emotions that they were either buried or sociopathically gone.
Marc:That the only way you were able to feel was by causing some fairly scary shit to happen.
Marc:And that character is interesting.
Marc:And I don't know that anyone could have really played it with the detachment and weirdness that you played it.
Marc:I don't want to tip the movie too much.
Marc:There's no spoilers in the movie.
Marc:And I would imagine that most people would be watching that movie waiting for something to happen.
Marc:So you really have to sort of lock into what is happening.
Marc:And the interesting thing is that Eric is not in it that much.
Marc:But when you two get together, it's like that juice that you guys have just all of a sudden fills the fucking cab.
Marc:And it's like, oh, my God, they're doing it.
Marc:And then it's like...
Marc:Yeah, we do have a chemistry.
Marc:Oh, no, it's completely unique and bizarre.
Marc:And when you were at Temple University, when you first met him, what was the meeting like?
Marc:I don't know if you talked about this other places.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:No, it doesn't.
Marc:No one pays attention.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Have you told this story a lot?
Guest:No, I mean, probably a few times.
Guest:Well, let's try and do it a different way.
Guest:Set the scene.
Guest:Well, we're both in film school, and we're living on the same floor in the dorms.
Guest:but the first time you saw him like he's a fairly menacing presence he's a tall guy yeah he's like a giant nerd man yeah he's i'm not gonna don't quote me on that no it's not you yeah well i think we're in the nerd comedy universe here we were um we definitely were very different in terms of like because eric was into sort of hardcore and and kind of you know he kind of a straight edge hardcore kind of scene and i was like a little kind of hippie-ish in a way like a little like the long hair and the like college hippie not i get it everyone's
Guest:kind of scrambling for an identity yeah I mean shows that I hadn't exactly found I was I guess I was like you know listening to pavement and is that okay right so you got it by voices well softer you know little power pop yeah but I had the goatee and I had the you know like the the long hair and
Guest:And the baggy jeans and stuff.
Guest:Baggy jeans.
Guest:But no, we're not talking tie-dye.
Guest:I was thinking about getting into Hacky Sack, but I was probably not going to pursue that.
Marc:Because then that could take you to Grateful Dead or Fish.
Guest:Yeah, definitely that direction was very open to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Have you listened to Pavement recently?
Guest:Yeah, they're great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's always still great.
Guest:I know.
Marc:It's like I went back to it recently.
Marc:And that new Stephen Malcolm's album is great.
Marc:I just decided to listen to Pavement like a month or so ago, and I'm like, holy fuck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's going on here?
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:And Wien, I know you had Aaron on the other day, and thank you for bringing us up.
Guest:Did he get in touch with you or anything?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:No, I'm not going to pursue too strongly.
Guest:You didn't reach out to him?
Guest:No.
Guest:But yeah, so anyways.
Marc:You were a big Wien fan.
Guest:Yeah, I was, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, still am.
Marc:Well, no, because I think that, you know, they may have made an impression on you.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Weird stuff, for sure.
Marc:But weird stuff that keeps being weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, that's the interesting thing about what you guys do and what Ween does.
Marc:It's like, hey, this is weird, and it's still happening.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not going to stop.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And also, when you look back on it, it doesn't seem less weird anymore.
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't know if that's what you're trying to say, but, yeah.
Guest:It still maintains its weirdness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a timeless weird.
Guest:So we were in classes together because we're both in film school.
Guest:And I think pretty much early on we realized how silly most of this film stuff was and trying to, you know, teaching about the history of cinema arts.
Guest:I took...
Marc:Theory classes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like semiotics and the French New Wave.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would probably be more open and receptive to it now than when I was 19.
Guest:There was a lot of clowning around and just wanting to have fun and goof around.
Guest:And we kind of got partnered up and did some little shorts together as experiments and learning how to use the bolex and things like that.
Guest:So...
Guest:we got along really, really quickly.
Guest:And even though we were kind of different, we both had that, you know, there was a lot, also a lot of people in the class and in the school that were just not, didn't seem motivated to want to make stuff.
Guest:They just were just kind of going through the motions.
Guest:We were like, we wanted to make stuff.
Guest:We wanted to,
Guest:uh, create films and that we thought we were going to be, you know, Martin Scorsese.
Guest:And, you know, we were like, he was your guy or not him particularly, but that, you know, we were like, you know, I was a big Woody Allen guy and, but also, you know, Terrence Malick and Coppola, you know, like the whole thing.
Guest:so okay so you're pretty mainstream you know genius very mainstream very mainstream Gary Marshall movies no no Woody Allen's good yeah I mean that was my idea going out of high school thinking like if I want to be an actor I should become a filmmaker right and make move make my own stuff and and that was inspired by watching you know sleeper and those those movies
Marc:In my life, the guys who I knew who were like, I can teach you some shit, they showed me this weird shit.
Marc:And I tried to like it.
Marc:I tried to get it.
Marc:I just wish I could remember the name of it.
Marc:There was those experimental films that were literally just sounds and colors, and I wrote a paper on it, and I was dropping names like Rothko and this and that.
Marc:I was that guy.
Marc:It's like, I want to be the art intellectual guy.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I think my problem is I have the worst memory.
Guest:So I might have seen, we might have seen all this stuff.
Guest:I just don't remember.
Guest:What were some of the first shorts you did?
Guest:See, I don't remember.
Guest:I did a short called Bad Knees and it was a friend of mine that I just filmed him walking around and his knees just kept going out on him and he just kept falling over and...
Guest:You know, just one setup after another.
Guest:And then it was kind of, it was all kind of like kind of emo and kind of artsy and, but combining some kind of slapstick and some kind of classic comedy.
Guest:And that was something you did on your own?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Eric and I did this.
Guest:It's on our website.
Guest:I think you can see it still.
Guest:For our senior class, the main goal of the senior class was to make your film.
Guest:But the professors needed a way to grade us.
Guest:Besides just on the film, they needed a report or something.
Guest:They said, everybody partner up and go and make a report about an aspect of filmmaking.
Guest:You can choose.
Guest:So art direction or editing or production.
Guest:So Eric and I were like, this is a waste.
Guest:Because people would come in and give like a 10-minute PowerPoint presentation about costumes or makeup or something.
Guest:And so we went off and just shot this movie where my thing was that there are lobsters in film.
Guest:And that was my thesis.
Guest:And they play an important part in the history of film.
Guest:Lobsters.
Guest:So I showed an example from Splash where Daryl Hannah's eating.
Guest:And then Eric's half.
Guest:So we filmed that, this little documentary about that.
Guest:And then Eric's was that VHS is better than film.
Guest:Like the quality of VHS is better than film.
Guest:And we did a little documentary.
Guest:And then we cut it together with this montage of Eric and I to some Boston song of us, like, dancing in the street and running around and, you know, this very, like, proto-Tim and Eric style kind of thing.
Guest:Well, what was the impulse to do that?
Guest:I think we wanted to still make stuff.
Guest:We wanted to create stuff, and that's what we thought we were there to do.
Guest:And we just thought it would be funny.
Guest:We thought it would be, like, F.U.
Guest:to the program and to our classmates.
Guest:But why Boston?
Guest:The song?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just because it felt like a montage song.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, it just had that energy to it.
Guest:More than a feeling?
Guest:Yeah, it was more than a feeling.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then we showed it and got an A for that, you know, because what else are you going to say?
Guest:But the rest of the class was looking at us like, you assholes.
Guest:It's not what they told us to do, you know?
Marc:Yeah, well, was that sort of the kernel of like, well, that's what we're going to do for life.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Just that look of befuddlement on behalf of a bunch of fucking sheep.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who thought that there was some sort of...
Guest:Some kind of system that you have to play by the rules.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, there was a long period of time, though, after that where we didn't do stuff together, and we kind of went our separate ways and then came back and made stuff, and that became sort of what got us our way.
Marc:But when you guys work together, specifically, like, I think, you know, there are certain devices you guys use that are clearly chemistry.
Marc:that like when do you decide, like when you guys do repetition exercises of faces or holding things too long, whether they're physical things or even like in the movie, in the Tim and Eric movie,
Marc:the idea of of that walk right yeah for i mean how how do you guys you know come into those into that timing or what what is that moment where you're like this is it and we're gonna we're gonna do this that's that particular thing was a decision that could you know we're like well i think that starts from like how there's practical it's it's very actually similar to the monty python holy grail thing of like we can't afford trotting
Guest:We can't afford horses, so let's do this thing.
Guest:And it really comes out of this practical thing of how are we going to get around.
Guest:And just trying to, you know, Eric's a lot about this and I am as well, but like how are we infusing, how are we making everything a little different, everything a little different.
Guest:How are we creating just another universe, really, another kind of reality.
Guest:So some things don't get that treatment, but a lot of things do.
Guest:And then all the timing stuff really is we know now that it's about what you do in the editing room.
Guest:And so we don't try to worry about that too much when we're writing or when we're shooting.
Guest:It's like just shoot stuff.
Guest:Just keep shooting.
Guest:Get a lot of stuff, and then we'll find things in the editing room.
Marc:So, like, you'll go long with something that seems ridiculous just because you want to have it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when you're editing, you're like, let's let this go on for another minute.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's really about, I think, a lot of it is about us getting bored with our own stuff.
Guest:And I don't know how other people do it where you have the confidence to just let things go out because...
Guest:you've gotten bored with the subject, you know, because I think most people, if you've written something and then performed it and then edited it, by the time you're editing, it's got to seem so old and stale.
Guest:So part of our instinct is we're in the editing room going like, this is not funny anymore.
Guest:We have to keep working on this to make it funnier or add sound effects and cut away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And do all this stuff to keep us entertained.
Guest:So I think that franticness kind of comes out of it.
Marc:So the world, the entrance to the world, like in the first, like I don't know what your side of the Bob Odenkirk story is.
Marc:Oh, well, I'm the other side of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how did that go for you?
Marc:Because that was your break.
Marc:So you and Eric were out of college.
Guest:We were out of college.
Guest:I was living in New York, playing in bands and making stuff with Eric.
Guest:You were still playing in bands?
Guest:Still trying to get the big record deal.
Guest:This band was more going down the comedy direction.
Guest:It was the Tim Heidecker masterpiece.
Guest:And it was sort of this like spinal tap theatrical... Wigs?
Guest:Wigs.
Guest:And I didn't wear a wig, but some of the other guys did.
Guest:And you were all original parody songs or...
Guest:Yeah, we wrote these rock operas that we kind of performed at little shitty New York rock clubs.
Guest:And did you get any traction there?
Guest:Yeah, a lot of traction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Too much.
Guest:Too much fucking traction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But anyway, so Eric was in Philly.
Guest:He was working as a wedding DJ.
Guest:Not a wedding DJ, I'm sorry, a wedding photographer.
Guest:He was?
Guest:Yeah, and so he was making stuff and working with... He had cameras, he had gear, so we would meet up on the weekends and make stuff.
Guest:And, uh, I was sitting, I had this desk job, this horrible company that I just, it was, you know, I moved to New York thinking I would pursue acting and writing and, and some friends of mine had, but the next day, literally the next day, it's like, you got to get a job.
Guest:So I got this temp job and that led to a, a job job.
Guest:Where at?
Guest:It's a place called the, uh, entertainment rating software board.
Guest:Really?
Guest:The, uh, you know, like how movies are rated R and PG.
Guest:Well, video games are also rated R.
Guest:E-M-T.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there was a company that did that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Rated those games.
Guest:So I worked there.
Marc:This was a coincidental hiring?
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:It was just like, I need a job.
Guest:I can't believe Eric was a wedding photographer.
Guest:He was, yes.
Guest:Which was, I mean, a lot of our stuff is inspired by that stuff, too.
Guest:All the, you know, because he would make these videos and they would have all the cheesy wipes and stuff.
Guest:So he was like, you know, really experimenting with that stuff.
Marc:Was he...
Marc:Was it his business?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think he had a partner, but it was mostly... So at some point, he had, what, thrown the towel in?
Guest:No, no, no, no, not at all.
Guest:We were all just trying to get by and live and figure it out.
Guest:I don't think we had, like, real understanding of what we were going to be doing.
Marc:Right, but it's just interesting that, like, that was just, like, because it seems so antithetical to anything that he would do.
Marc:But I know you can't speak for him, but I mean, it's just a... I mean, I'm not judging it, but it's just sort of an interesting...
Guest:place for him to go more so look at me i mean i'm sitting in this midtown office nine to five you know i mean you were just sort of like i just you weren't committed to it at all i mean right but there were definite times where i thought oh is this it is this what's gonna is this well what am i gonna do i don't know this is my life right and i was trying to do other stuff i was trying to do the music and the stuff with eric but the stuff with eric seemed so just like recreational it seemed so like a hot like a fun thing to do and and not something that would lead to some kind of
Guest:So from the wedding videos, that's where you get all the fake smiles and the weird posing.
Guest:Maybe some of that, yeah.
Guest:So we had made these shorts and we had gotten them around to some friends and we were showing them and felt like they were getting nice reaction from people we knew.
Guest:They thought they were really funny.
Guest:And so I was just sitting at this desk job and I was like, on the internet, like who, you know, Google agents, you know, like just didn't know, like back in high school with the bands.
Guest:I don't know what to do here.
Guest:We weren't part of any scene or any kind of community of comics or filmmakers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we were big Mr. Show fans, and I figured let's try to find Odenkirk and tracked him down through the production company doing some research.
Guest:I typed in Dakota Films, and then they gave me his address.
Guest:So I sent him something, and we sent him a DVD, and we sent him an invoice for the DVD as well.
Guest:And for some reason he, you know, watched it and like called me while he was watching it and was like, who, you know, this is Bob Odenkirk and I'm watching your stuff.
Guest:It's really funny.
Guest:Who are you guys?
Guest:You know, it's like mind blowing.
Guest:I just, I thought it was a prank.
Guest:You know, this guy was like a hero.
Guest:So we started just, we started talking and we, we, we just seized on it.
Guest:We were like, okay, why don't we come out and we'll talk.
Guest:And,
Guest:What did you send him?
Guest:How many bits?
Guest:We sent him like five sketches.
Guest:The original Tom Goes to the Mayor that we had made.
Guest:It was like the first thing we made and some other things.
Guest:That was the first sketch, huh?
Guest:Yeah, and that was really the first thing he saw.
Guest:And that was really what drew him in because it was just so weird.
Guest:And he was like, who do you guys know?
Guest:are you are you friends with david out there because he knew i was living in new york and i'm like no i don't know any i don't know anybody how old were you i was 24 25 something like that you know just a guy in an office i mean we were like i i you know now out here you meet these guys that are pretty young like in their early 20s that are working and getting jobs like doing comedy and
Guest:And I realized we started a little late.
Guest:We had a kind of wilderness period of not doing anything.
Guest:And so, yeah, so we started kind of talking to Bob.
Guest:And Bob was just the greatest.
Guest:He just kind of took us under his wing and- Helped you shape stuff.
Guest:Helped us shape stuff, told us what we should be working on.
Guest:Long, like hour-long phone calls with him about-
Guest:What we needed some of it, you know, we didn't end up using that.
Guest:You know, it's like you take what you what you need from advice.
Marc:He's like, you know, he's also like he's very paternal when he was very paternal.
Marc:Like what you got to do is.
Guest:Yeah, it's very matter of fact.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And the best guy to get advice from because he's been through every situation you can imagine.
Guest:He's very intense and smart.
Guest:So, and we ended up just liking each other and he got us, you know, he actually got us a meeting with Comedy Central like very early on and they were like not ready to get involved with us quite yet.
Guest:And then sort of through being, you know, to have Bob's name just to be able to use, it became amazing.
Guest:Because then Eric met somebody at Adult Swim at some party, some Adult Swim party in Philly.
Guest:And he was like, hey, we're working with Bob Odenkirk or, you know, we're friends with Bob Odenkirk.
Guest:And suddenly they're like, you know, they take you seriously.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he passed along a DVD to them, and then they passed it along to this girl, this woman named Kaki Jones at Cartoon Network, who had the same feeling that Bob had about it, and passed it along to Mike Lazo, the head of Adult Swim.
Guest:And he called and said, I think there's a show here that you guys could...
Marc:I feel like you guys were sort of the flagship show for what defined what they do.
Guest:Well, there was a couple other shows before us, for sure.
Guest:But yeah, we were one of the first shows that wasn't made in their office.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And the first Tim and Eric show, that was short form.
Guest:It was like, how long was each episode?
Guest:uh the tom goes to the mayor was 11 minutes and it was actually a story you know it was a story but that was like that was adult swim dealt with their they didn't do half hour blocks no right yeah which was great for i mean doing tom goes to the mayor was like learning how to make a tv show like on this you know on the job training kind of uh with bob odenkirk as our sort of mentor helping us along
Marc:But how much did he, like, when you guys were shooting that stuff and the look that you wanted to have, he got it all?
Marc:Like, did you have to explain to him?
Marc:Or were you guys pretty adept at dealing with camera people and dealing with, you know, like, you know, set deck?
Marc:Because, I mean, the whole vision of what you guys do is very specific.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, well, the Tom Goes to the Mayor was a cartoon, so we didn't have to deal with that.
Guest:We were all learning that sort of at the same time.
Guest:We had brought in an editor named John Kreisel, who does Portlandia now.
Guest:He's a genius guy that he worked with us through our first two shows.
Guest:And we all kind of figured it out at the same time.
Guest:How are we going to do this show?
Guest:You know, just sat down and figured it out.
Guest:But I mean, not the cartoon stuff, but like the... Well, we had been making these short, like Tom Goes to the Mayor was one short out of many others that were not animation, that were just us, you know.
Guest:So we had a visual style that we kind of knew and felt comfortable with, and that just evolved.
Guest:A lot of stuff is just trying stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We were also limited by the production, by the budgets.
Guest:We didn't have a lot of money to make stuff, so it had a natural shittiness to it.
Guest:There's nothing.
Guest:You could just embrace it.
Marc:You embrace the natural shittiness?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you seem to have evolved a crew of characters.
Marc:Now, I've had this conversation with people before.
Marc:There's a line where you're obviously using people that are actors.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They are all members of SAG.
Marc:Right.
Marc:SAG-AFTRA.
Marc:And you're probably giving them more work than they've ever had before.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:But there is that conversation of sort of like, do these people know that they're...
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:Kind of being... There's certainly a line, and we're aware of the line, and we do our best not to cross that line.
Guest:To not use them as fodder.
Guest:Not to be exploitive.
Guest:And, you know, sometimes I think it's a tricky thing to manage, you know, I'll be honest with you.
Guest:But we always try to be, you know, first of all, everybody that comes into our world knows that they're making... There's a comedy show going on.
Guest:There's no hidden cameras.
Guest:You know, it's very fun.
Guest:It's a very fun collaborative kind of environment when we're making it.
Guest:And since then, you know, our goal is just to make a crazy nightmare universe.
Guest:You know, that's our ultimate goal, making the show.
Guest:And we didn't want to use a lot of sketch actors.
Guest:We didn't want to use a lot of comics and comedians.
Guest:You know, we wanted it to feel as genuine and real as possible.
Guest:So we got into the habit of casting real people.
Guest:And I think, you know, a lot of time.
Guest:Who are actors.
Guest:Who are actors, but have like a quality to them.
Guest:That they can't avoid.
Guest:That they can't, yes.
Guest:you know this is like a tradition i think that you'd see in in woody allen movies and coen brothers movies and and certainly on david letterman and sort of just tapping into a a non-phony kind of people wearing wigs and mustaches and pretending to be an old guy just get an old guy you know right get an old guy but also get a guy that uh that brings all that with them the non-phoniness
Marc:is like they're already a comedic character whether they know it or not.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Guest:That's not on you necessarily.
Guest:The classic case being Bud, what's his name?
Guest:Bud Melman.
Guest:Larry Bud Melman.
Marc:Which also was sort of loaded up with a kind of like after a certain point you're like... That's sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, I did a show with him once.
Marc:It was me and him and Gilbert Gottfried.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:You know, and it was a special show for Larry.
Marc:And, like, they were touring him.
Marc:And, you know, he didn't have much.
Marc:He didn't have an act, right?
Guest:No.
Marc:And it was just sort of like he was just weird, panicky, almost a little bit queeny.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like he looked kind of, like, terrified that he was in this situation.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But we've never had anybody that's come back to us and said, you know, why did you use that take?
Guest:Or, you know, everyone's like, when are we doing this again?
Guest:How can we do more of this?
Guest:They have a good time.
Guest:They have a good time.
Guest:And we try to make them feel like they're part of this crazy family.
Guest:And I also feel like we try to, in the show, Eric and I try to be as ugly or as, you know, stupid.
Guest:It's not like us, like, look at those.
Guest:No, no, no, I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, when you cast people, do you know much about them?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You just look at pictures and audition for them?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, most people come through an audition process.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And a couple people have just, you know, we've known, like Lieberhardt, we've known from Cable Access.
Guest:He had his own Cable Access show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we had him in.
Guest:And it's like, I think in any show, what happens is you'd start making a show and you don't really know what your show is about for a while, you know, because you're just making it and you're trying stuff.
Guest:And then you see what works and what doesn't.
Guest:And then you kind of build a universe of the show.
Guest:I think that's true in any show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In our show, we made the first season and we had all of a sudden these characters that we loved seeing and we wanted to see more of them and wanted to make them feel like there was a universe there.
Guest:So if there was a Tim and Eric party in a sketch, you know, it would be Richard Dunn would be there or David, you know, these would be the guys that would be around.
Guest:These would be like considered our friends in the world that we've created.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then we became friendly with them, you know, and became sort of – they're very – most of them are not super eccentric.
Guest:They're just people trying to work.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah, well, it's just – and they have physical qualities or other qualities or like maybe a slight inability to act quality sometimes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you also pick these actors that are very hip –
Marc:to what you're doing and are able, like, you know, like Zach and John C. Reilly and Bob.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, like, even in the movie, you know, Loja, who, like, he knows what's going on, right?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Well, it's like, we want to cast a Robert Loja character to play Robert Loja, so let's just get Robert Loja.
Marc:But Loja, like, who has, like, you know, been in a lot of movies, Scarface, and he was, like, the dad on, I mean, he's done regular stuff, right.
Marc:So he's familiar with the Lynchian universe anyways.
Marc:Right, that's right.
Marc:And did you, when you were directing someone like Loja, did you have to say, like, this is the world we're in?
Marc:Not so much.
Guest:I mean, I think he, we were like, you know what to do.
Guest:Just be loud and yell and be, you're the bad guy, you know, just be scary.
Guest:Go over the top.
Guest:We want you to go over the top.
Guest:And he was fine with that.
Guest:And he just did it?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because all those scenes are pretty much separated, but they're isolated from the other parts of the movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So maybe he thought we were doing, you know, a drama.
Guest:No, I think he knew.
Marc:Well, no, because there's one moment where he's yelling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're like, he clearly knows, because he went on too long.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he just kept pushing it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so you're kind of like, oh, he knows exactly what's going on.
Marc:Yeah, he had fun.
Marc:And then there was that one, what's that guy's name that you had in...
Marc:You know, the mall, the spiritual one.
Marc:Oh, Ray Wise.
Marc:Yeah, Ray Wise.
Marc:Ray Wise.
Marc:And he's like a professional weirdo.
Marc:I mean, he only does weird stuff.
Marc:I mean, I saw him in... Because he's so normal looking.
Marc:He's so like straight looking like... Well, he was in Mad Men in a straight part, but he's a big Lynch guy too, wasn't he?
Guest:Yeah, he is from the... He's been... Twin Peaks.
Marc:Twin Peaks, right.
Marc:Yeah, but he's just a professional actor, but he knew it was, he knows how to be weird, right?
Guest:Yeah, I think, you know, I think if you're an actor, you're already coming from a place of being, you have a creative, you know, you're into some weird stuff.
Marc:But some people love doing it, like Riley seems to love doing your guys' stuff.
Guest:Oh, well, he's, yeah, he's the best.
Guest:I mean, we have the, do the Check It Out show, Steve Brühl.
Guest:with him and geez I mean he's he's one of the greatest actors you know but he wants to he's also just a really funny guy yeah loves he's a great writer and a great has great ideas and he wants to do them and when we first met with him he was like looking around our world because our world was so small it was this little office with
Guest:You know, cameras and young dudes with, you know, hoodies on running around, you know, people right out of college working for us.
Guest:And he was like, this is like a playground.
Guest:This is like anarchy.
Guest:You could do it.
Guest:It's like, you know, it's not like a big studio thing.
Guest:It's like we could just grab a camera, go on green screen and do whatever we want.
Guest:So he was like, let's I want to come here and play.
Guest:I want to like this isn't work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, so.
Guest:So there was a punk rock element to it.
Guest:There definitely was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We we we tried to bring the way that Eric and I made our show from his Eric's office in his house to everything we did.
Guest:Just like, you know, let's just make it a it's guys hanging out making stuff.
Marc:So that was the original lab, was Eric's house?
Marc:That was where the editing room was, yeah.
Marc:And what does he have?
Marc:What was hanging around there?
Marc:Cats.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, he's a cat guy?
Guest:Yeah, he's a cat guy.
Marc:I'm a dog guy.
Marc:Yeah, I could see that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what about, now, do you talk to Eric every day or what?
Guest:Almost every day, yeah.
Guest:It depends.
Guest:If we're working on stuff, obviously a lot more.
Guest:If we're kind of taking a break, not so much.
Guest:We've established a really good long-term relationship that we know we have to give ourselves room and space.
Marc:Has there been shut the fuck up moments?
Guest:Well, of course, we're, you know, it's 12 years of making stuff.
Guest:There's been some serious WTF moments.
Guest:Oh, fuck.
Guest:No, but, you know, there's always been a sort of, at the end of the day, there's a mutual respect and a goal of, like, let's not, let's make, we both should be happy in this thing, and we should be making what we both want to make.
Marc:The last time I saw, I think the two of you together was coincidental at the Roosevelt Hotel, and there was some about the movie release,
Marc:There was a big meeting, big dinner with all the heads of state.
Guest:We were converging to discuss the release plans.
Marc:And what's the whole name of the movie again?
Marc:Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie.
Marc:Billion Dollar Movie.
Marc:So how did that pan out for you guys?
Guest:How does that pan out?
Guest:Fool's gold.
Guest:It was like panning.
Guest:Yeah, we got a bunch of rocks and mud.
Guest:But was it received well?
Guest:No, no, it wasn't received well by the mainstream.
Guest:But your guys, your people liked it?
Guest:Our fans seemed to really like it.
Guest:Some didn't, some did.
Guest:A lot of people loved it.
Guest:We had great screenings where we went around the country and showed it to packed houses.
Guest:And I think, you know, people didn't know what to expect.
Guest:They thought they were going to get a long version of the show or they thought, you know,
Guest:And we went into making that movie trying to make something that you didn't have to be a super fan of the show to make.
Guest:At least that's what our idea was.
Guest:Let's try to make a movie.
Guest:And we had a fun time making it and good reaction from the people that gave us the money to make the movie.
Guest:Everybody was very supportive.
Guest:And then it came out and it seemed like a certain amount of people, like the establishment press, just fucking...
Guest:We're vicious about it.
Guest:Just like this is the worst movie I've ever seen.
Guest:This is a disgrace.
Guest:It's just, you know, really harsh in a sort of, I thought, unfair way that was like, hey, you know, we made this just our own.
Guest:You know, this is like our little thing.
Marc:But were they at least giving you the benefit of comparing it to your other work or were they just like, who the fuck are these guys?
Guest:Yeah, I think there was a real... Because it is just... I guess it really is that different.
Guest:It's just a different... I felt like when I... After reading that, I watched the movie again and was trying to imagine if you didn't know us and you didn't understand our rhythms and our tempo and stuff, what that would be like.
Guest:And I think some people think that...
Guest:If our editing's off or it's not the way you're normal, they're like, these guys did a bad job making a movie.
Guest:The actual, you know, the quality of the movie itself was not done well.
Marc:It just seems unfair with guys like you who have a sensibility that's established to all of a sudden just sort of disregard that in assessing the film.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:Like, I didn't get it.
Marc:Who the fuck are these guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it just seems like it's crazy that if that is your first reaction, then there's probably something wrong there.
Guest:Like, that should be a clue that this should be looked at a little closer.
Guest:Because if you're that reactionary to it, then maybe there's something that you're just really, really are missing that needs to be explored more.
Guest:And in retrospect, how do you feel about the movie?
Guest:I'm happy with it.
Guest:My voice just went really high.
Guest:I'm happy with it.
Guest:No, I think it's really great.
Guest:It makes me laugh.
Guest:It's not a perfect movie, but with what we had, what we were trying to do, it's trying to distill all of the things that we do into 90 minutes was a little challenging and to make it work as a movie.
Guest:And it was really just a movie as an excuse to make fun of movies and to make fun of the idea of what movies are.
Marc:What I felt like when I was watching it, what was really different for me is that so much of your stuff is video-related, is TV-related.
Guest:Yeah, awesome show for sure is about television all the time.
Marc:And there were moments where, just like that, when I was watching it, and I watched it yesterday because I wanted to make sure I had it in my head.
Guest:You did a Tim and Eric double feature.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I've seen other stuff, but I wanted to make sure I saw the movie.
Marc:But, you know, there was that moment where I'm watching it and, you know, I'm getting laughs and I'm getting grossed out and doing all the things that shit.
Marc:Yeah, that I'm supposed to.
Marc:But the commercial, you know, for that spiritual.
Marc:Right, Ray Wise.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That, to me, I was like, that's...
Marc:that's tim eric yeah right that was it in a bottle right that was like it was so defined that that that whatever happened in that moment that the chemistry and the weirdness right and the balancing of of sounds and weird moment video moments i was like that's interesting because that is that's what i know you for right you had the comic and then when you pull back into the mall itself and all of a sudden it's a filmic universe yeah yeah
Marc:It's a little different tone.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I don't know how you would capture the tone of the, you know, I mean, I think you did a great job, but I think that film is different.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:It is different.
Guest:And I think we were, that's what we were trying to do.
Guest:We were like, we're not going to make 90 minutes of bad video effects.
Guest:You know, it just wasn't going to work that way.
Guest:That would have been a disaster.
Guest:And also, sketch movies don't work.
Guest:I mean, we didn't want to make an experimental movie.
Marc:We didn't want to make an art film necessarily.
Marc:I'm amazed at how certain people... There's only certain actors that could really lock into what you guys do.
Marc:You really know how to... You know, like Farrell and Zack and John C. Reilly and that other guy whose name I always forget.
Guest:Will Forte.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of sketch actors and a lot of comedic actors, but they're just not going to be able to... Commitment to it.
Marc:...surf on that reality.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like when you're sitting there with Farrell, I mean, was there, how much improvising is there usually?
Guest:There's a lot.
Guest:I mean, that scene with him at the desk is sort of written out in beats, but he brought, you know, I mean, it was the best day because you're just sitting across from Will Farrell.
Guest:He's like the funniest guy in the world, and he's just like killing to us at least.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These are guys that we think are the funniest people and are also the nicest people and are the most open people to trying weird stuff and being cool with just doing something small and weird and stuff.
Guest:So Will Forte just kills me and he's so committed to that character of just insanity and crying and screaming and just like this real...
Marc:guttural crazy performance yeah yeah it's pretty amazing the the first thing i saw you guys was i think it was in some saturator maybe black and white and i think eric is dressed as a hamburger oh it was the uh casey and his brother it's like the talent show thing we're singing and there was a lot of like you know this close-up of you know your face eating yeah and spitting shit out yeah
Marc:I thought that was the greatest thing I ever saw when I saw it.
Marc:I'm like, these guys are doing something way the fuck out there.
Marc:It's just tapping into nightmares, really, I think.
Marc:So you're aware of dream pace?
Marc:You wanted to have that weird pace, that feeling, though, of like, yeah.
Guest:yeah yeah it's it's like that we want to we want to the laughs to come from your from your belly but also from you know this like uncomfortable like the bottom like the bottom of your belly where you feel like sick or or scared or yeah we're like don't want to look you know that's we want a visceral kind of emotion to be drawn from
Marc:Is there one specific thing, a moment or a viewing event that made you say, well, that's the area?
Marc:Because in my mind, when I saw Todd Browning's Freaks, there was something undeniable about the groove of people who are naturally different.
Marc:Was there a moment where you're like, oh, that thing, how do we exploit that?
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:No, I'm bad with moments.
Marc:Well, I mean, did David Lynch have any effect on you?
Guest:Certainly David Lynch.
Guest:I mean, Andy Kaufman, I got to give him credit for, you know, his specifically his, if you remember his public television talk show that he did.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Where he had the giant desk.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Elaine Boosler was his guest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he had on an act that was... This was very exploitive in a way because it was this old 50s one-hit wonder guy who had a... He had him come on and sing a song and he sings this sort of song that he... It was like a current country kind of song.
Guest:And then Andy comes out and says, do your one-hit song from when you were younger.
Guest:And the guy hadn't done it in a while and was like...
Guest:okay i'll try and then he missed words and he missed lyrics and it was just like he couldn't it was cringe he couldn't watch because it was just so uncomfortable that this guy was being put on the spot you know and it was horrible so and you're like no i want to do that
Marc:Yeah, he was a guy, wasn't he?
Marc:Andy Kaufman was pretty amazing.
Marc:I've got to watch that now.
Guest:Yeah, I'm sure it's online.
Guest:It's on YouTube?
Guest:I'm sure it is.
Marc:Where did you see it, as a kid?
Guest:We had a great video rental store in Philly called TLA, and they just had videos that recommended weird stuff, a lot of TV stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the only place, I mean, it was the only place you could find, you could ever see stuff, you know, there was no YouTube or anything.
Guest:You'd go to the TLA and they'd go, oh, if you liked Andy Kaufman, you'll like this.
Marc:Thank God for those guys who were in video stores.
Guest:Yeah, really.
Marc:Those nerd guys.
Guest:Have you met David Lynch?
Guest:Joe's picks and stuff, you know, like the pick of the month.
Guest:uh never met david lynch no haven't met the big guys you know i haven't haven't met christopher guest i haven't met really do you have any sense have you gotten any sort of mail or attention from people that you're flattered by like where you're like oh my god that guy knows it well early on um weird al sent a note and like you know i grew up on weird al he's like one of the reasons i'm doing what i'm doing i think and
Guest:i have a lot of respect for him and he reached out through bob like hey love the show like early on tom goes to the mayor stuff you know um jack black was an early guy that was like your stuff is great yeah i want to do something with you guys oh yeah so what are you working on now
Guest:We're hopefully doing another season of Check It Out with Dr. Steve Bruhl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's coming up.
Guest:And Eric and I have a show that we're putting together for Adult Swim, hopefully for next year.
Guest:A Tim and Eric show?
Guest:Tim and Eric show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fun.
Guest:Trying to figure it out.
Guest:You having a good time?
Guest:no no no just it's tough you know it's hard really just kidding i mean i'm having a good time right now or in life in life yeah yeah you're married right yeah i'm married that's good i mean it's like we i was thinking about this we never sat down and said this is what we're going to do for the next 20 years you know no one does that and people who do are frightening
Guest:It's against your system.
Guest:It's a little bit of a weird time because we did the movie and we've done 50 episodes of this TV show that has sort of its own life.
Guest:And now it's like, what do we do now?
Guest:We've kind of done everything we thought we wanted to do.
Guest:So, and what do we want to do next?
Guest:Why do we want to do that?
Guest:What does that get us?
Guest:Where does it take us?
Guest:And what else do we have to say?
Guest:You know, these sort of crazy questions.
Guest:So in the meantime, while we're figuring that out, and we are figuring that out, it's like, make a...
Guest:make music, you know, do stuff, just make stuff.
Guest:Do a Dylan song.
Marc:Do a Dylan song for 14 minutes.
Marc:And also acting.
Marc:I mean, I think that the comedy was, I mean, that's got to be a good, I mean, you did the bridesmaids thing, but that wasn't even a speaking part.
Guest:Well, it was one word.
Guest:I said one word.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:I think I said yes or I do or something.
Marc:Was there supposed to be more?
Guest:There was a scene.
Guest:There were scenes that were cut out.
Guest:There was one scene.
Guest:Paul Rudd, I think, was cut out of that movie.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was just a long shot.
Guest:But Apatow told me that me being in that movie is one of his favorite jokes about the movie, that he's like somehow captured this alternative comic, this guy that probably would hate this movie, like I had him trapped in the movie.
Marc:That's so funny when you realize how calculating he can be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if I took that as a compliment or not.
Marc:Ha ha, we made you sell out.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:We put you in a mainstream movie, little man.
Marc:Who runs things?
Guest:We do.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, now you know.
Marc:Now I know.
Marc:How can people watch the comedy?
Guest:The comedy is going to be on Video On Demand on iTunes for a little bit.
Guest:You can find it if you go follow me on Twitter or follow me anywhere else.
Guest:You can find information on it.
Guest:Tribecafilm.com or something like that.
Marc:It'll turn up somewhere.
Guest:It's worth watching.
Marc:I think you did a great job.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:If you live in a big city, it'll hopefully be in your movie theater.
Marc:Maybe you should tour with it, like Mike Birbiglia.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Run it for president, the film.
Guest:No, it's good to see it with people.
Guest:Don't see it alone.
Guest:I mean, you saw it alone.
Guest:You might.
Marc:No, I saw it with my girlfriend.
Guest:I had a screener.
Guest:Virtually alone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'd like to see it with it.
Marc:You never know the crowd.
Marc:It does have a difference.
Marc:It does have an effect on how you're going to take something in.
Marc:So have a viewing party.
Marc:Yeah, have a viewing party of people having... It'll probably be a reflection on you.
Guest:Yeah, it'll be a little bit of a bummer afterwards, but then you'll start talking about it.
Marc:Well, the scene on the boat with that chick is the most difficult scene, really.
Guest:It'll be talked about, hopefully, in film classes, maybe.
Guest:Yeah, I think.
Marc:What happened there?
Marc:I don't want you to say anything.
Marc:Yeah, that'll be for the next time I come by.
Marc:We'll talk about it off the mics.
Marc:Thanks, Tim.
Marc:Thanks, Mark.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's Tim Heidecker.
Marc:You know, I didn't know.
Marc:It's nice to know that he's just a guy.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:Interesting talk.
Marc:Go see that movie.
Marc:I thought he did a great job in that movie, The Comedy.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Philadelphia, December 6th through 8th at Helium Comedy Club.
Marc:That would be my return to stand-up after this long haul.
Marc:of uh of shooting this show it's one of the liabilities of that it's hard to get out and do the stand-up but i think i still got it i hope it's like riding a bike i think it probably is oh god i feel disgusting wtfpod.com pick up some merch got new posters up there t-shirts the works check out the episode guy before you pester me with guest ideas
Marc:On Wednesday, we got a live show, live from the Tripany at the Steve Allen Theater with Ari Spears, TJ Miller, Moby, Dave Hill, Jake Fogelnest.
Marc:Yeah, kicking a few shekels.
Marc:Do whatever you need to do over there.
Marc:Get on that mailing list.
Marc:I'll mail you a letter.
Marc:I'll mail you an email every Monday.
Marc:How's that go?
Marc:How's that going to grab you good?
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm going to go see how my toilet situation is coming along.
you