Episode 316 - Jim Rash
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckaholics what the fuckstables that's enough that is enough i know there are more i know i could go on i could do a whole show of them i am mark maron this is wtf this is my show you are listening to it thank you for doing that
Marc:Hey, okay, don't let me forget the Magic Bag Theater, September 29th for two shows in Ferndale, Michigan.
Marc:That's near Detroit.
Marc:And also I got the live WTF and the storytelling show at the Riot LA Alternative Comedy Festival at the independent, LA Independent Theater.
Marc:That's this Saturday, the 22nd.
Marc:I think there's still tickets for that.
Marc:Go to riotla.com, I think is the thing.
Marc:Did I mention today on the show Jim Rash from Community?
Marc:A very sweet man, nice guy, very talented man.
Marc:Interesting story.
Marc:Also a writer, Oscar award-winning writer.
Marc:Winning?
Marc:Winning?
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Winning.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, he's going to be here in a minute.
Marc:What else?
Marc:Nate Bargetze, my guest from last week, his record is out.
Marc:I want to keep supporting Nate because I laugh at Nate, and I've listened to the record twice, and I still laugh.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:I have nothing to gain from this.
Marc:He's not we're not necessarily friends.
Marc:I'm just so excited when I hear a comedian that has got his own style and does it.
Marc:It does a thing.
Marc:Makes me laugh.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:Enough of it.
Marc:This is the end of the the the blowing smoke up the ass of Nate Bargetzi.
Marc:But his record.
Marc:Yelled at by a clown is out.
Marc:I'm a little frazzled.
Marc:I'm a little crazy.
Marc:We're writing the show.
Marc:We're doing the thing.
Marc:Locations are being chosen.
Marc:The Marin sitcom.
Marc:Is that what you call it?
Marc:A sitcom.
Marc:The half hour scripted comedy.
Marc:I will be shooting for IFC is in production big time.
Marc:We're done.
Marc:We've completed a bunch of the scripts.
Marc:We're almost done with the writing.
Marc:We're now casting people, which is something I'd never done before.
Marc:I'm in a whole new world.
Marc:And it's interesting because I've been in a lot of rooms where I walk into the casting room nervous, having not made a choice, having not really just feeling that anxiety and not knowing how to connect with a room full of people.
Marc:And there's me and three or four other people in there and a casting agent.
Marc:My heart goes out to the people that are reading for it.
Marc:Even if it's for a small part, we've got great people in.
Marc:It's all very exciting.
Marc:I seem to be numbing it, though.
Marc:I'm just keeping my nose to the grindstone.
Marc:Is that the saying?
Marc:I'm just trying to do what's in front of me.
Marc:Do the work, not freak out.
Marc:You know what's interesting about being in a work environment?
Marc:I imagine this is interesting for anybody.
Marc:The brain wants to pick a bad guy.
Marc:The brain, maybe not all brains, but I imagine this is how mythology works.
Marc:I imagine how it's it's clearly how superheroes work, which is similar to mythology.
Marc:Religions work this way is that I'm telling you, man, corporate structures work this way.
Marc:But if you're in a situation where there's any kind of hierarchy or there are other people involved that are on a different tier than you are, someone's going down in your head.
Marc:someone is the bad guy someone is the one who's in you know responsible or a couple of people for making you crazy for say it's like i don't know and i'm not really having this problem but i fight it on a day-to-day basis i know my girlfriend has her job and i just think it's part of the brain blame displacement very few people want to take responsibility you can only take responsibility for what you're fucking responsible for the rest has got to be someone else's fault man
Marc:Right?
Marc:Just carve out your shit.
Marc:This is my shit, and you can't fuck with that.
Marc:And if you do fuck with it, and something goes wrong with it, it's on you, fuckface.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:Does that make sense?
Marc:I don't know if any of it made sense.
Marc:The hell difference does it make?
Marc:The show's going great.
Marc:We're doing... We're writing good stuff, and the people that are coming in, everyone who's involved in the production is awesome.
Marc:And I'm not saying that just to be...
Marc:I'm not kissing ass.
Marc:I'm just thrilled that it's happening.
Marc:It's been a fun process.
Marc:It's nice to enjoy your work.
Marc:God, I hope the show's good.
Marc:That's really what it comes down to.
Marc:You're doing all this work, and then we're going to start shooting, and we've got a pretty low budget, and we're going to be running around.
Marc:I'll let you know.
Marc:I'm just trying to keep you in the loop here.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:I went to my buddy's 50th birthday party.
Marc:That's happening.
Marc:That's happening in my life.
Marc:My friends are turning 50 and older.
Marc:I don't quite know how to handle it.
Marc:I really don't.
Marc:Don't know how to deal with it.
Marc:I am dealing with it.
Marc:I know I'm 48.
Marc:I'm going to be 49 on September 27th.
Marc:I know that's happening.
Marc:There's nothing I can do to stop it, and I'm not that upset about it.
Marc:I'm not freaking out about the age thing.
Marc:See, I don't know what's going on with me, folks.
Marc:I'm not freaking out about the show.
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:Either some wire has disconnected in my brain or maybe things are okay.
Marc:And I know some of you don't like to hear that things are okay.
Marc:Look, I still have a day-to-day struggle in my relationship, in my car, with my mouth, with certain pairs of shoes I struggle with.
Marc:A couple of pairs of pants I'm not thrilled with.
Marc:My toothbrush, not always a great experience.
Marc:I have a water pick that I have problems with.
Marc:There's plenty of struggles in my life, okay?
Marc:My father, who I just called on the phone, and he said, are you still working on that, what is it, a play?
Marc:Are you still working on a play?
Marc:the series see see when they say something like that they know what it is he knew exactly what i was working on but no he innately what are you still doing that what are you what are you making uh uh clay figures or uh is it is it a clay thing you're doing are you working with uh on uh what are you painting a picture
Marc:The series that this is always a few, like two or three completely demeaning options followed by exactly what they know it is to begin with.
Marc:But I'm cool.
Marc:I'm cool.
Marc:It's all right.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Then we talk for 15 minutes about vitamins he's not taking anymore.
Marc:So I go to my buddy's 50th birthday, and this is a dear friend of mine, and he's got twin daughters.
Marc:I haven't really seen much of them in the last few years.
Marc:I've known them since they were babies, and now they're 15.
Marc:And I don't even know.
Marc:Now it's just awkward for everybody, I think, isn't it?
Marc:I mean, I've got to assume it's got to be awkward.
Marc:Even if you're if you're a father and all of a sudden you've got these a 15 year old girl, two of them in your house.
Marc:And the way these teenagers, these kids, the way they dress, it's obscene.
Marc:It's crazy that they used to dress like I found myself doing that.
Marc:OK, maybe it's just me.
Marc:Maybe I'm I'm not even being pervy.
Marc:I'm just sort of like they're people now.
Marc:They're women.
Marc:They're at that age where everything is on.
Marc:It's just weird.
Marc:I don't have kids, and I'm not sure exactly how to talk to them.
Marc:I always try to talk to them on their level.
Marc:I think I walked up to his daughter, and I said, so your dad, right?
Marc:What an asshole, right?
Marc:I mean, come on.
Marc:When are you going to get out of there?
Marc:I didn't say that.
Marc:I said, how's school?
Marc:And she said, good.
Marc:And I'm like, that's good.
Marc:Do you know what you're going to do with your life?
Marc:She said, no.
Marc:I'm like, yeah.
Marc:Take your time, you know?
Marc:There's no rush.
Marc:When do you drive?
Marc:She said, soon.
Marc:I'm going to get my driver's permit.
Marc:I'm like, that'll be fun, right?
Marc:So you can get out.
Marc:All right, I got to go get some cheese over there.
Marc:No fucking clue how to talk to kids.
Marc:I found myself doing that thing where I was like, why the...
Marc:Because my brother's got a teenage daughter and he's going nuts with what she wants to wear.
Marc:He's like, I can't let her out of the house like that.
Marc:And I'm going through my mind.
Marc:And I'm thinking like, yeah, it's ridiculous.
Marc:I mean, they shouldn't be allowed to dress like that.
Marc:And then I heard myself saying that.
Marc:And I started to think back at my past.
Marc:And I'm like, did they used to dress like that?
Marc:And then I'm like, holy shit, tube tops.
Marc:Do you remember tube tops when I was in junior high?
Marc:Man, just the girls in their tube tops constantly having to pull them up.
Marc:That was the best thing about junior high and high school were tube tops and ridiculous shorts.
Marc:So dads, bro, it's been going on since we were kids.
Marc:There's no stopping it without them fighting you on it.
Marc:You're just going to have to let it happen.
Marc:Keep them away from perverts.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That's the whole agenda after a certain point.
Marc:Keep them away from bad boys and perverts.
Marc:I imagine that's the deal for fathers of daughters.
Marc:For fathers of sons, I don't know, don't have one.
Marc:Try to keep them off drugs and not let him get his ass kicked or fall into himself.
Marc:Don't stop paying attention to them and detach from them completely because then they'll hate you and become a comedian.
Marc:right how's the uh what are you working on now the uh fixing automobiles are you doing the other you're doing the series yeah what do you got going you got a working at that restaurant or you're doing the what are you doing a tv series yeah try not to let that happen
Guest:How does that sound to you?
Guest:It sounds great.
Guest:It sounds great.
Guest:How do I sound?
Guest:You sound good.
Guest:Okay, good.
Guest:We're all good.
Guest:It's always shocking to hear your voice.
Marc:I find it comforting.
Guest:Well, you do it a lot, so you hear your voice more often.
Marc:It's gotten to the point where I almost would rather wear these all the time, just in regular conversation, to maybe have something that I could hook up when I'm talking to other people.
Guest:I just feel better with it.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I know.
Marc:So I know exactly my tone.
Guest:I want to hear what you're hearing.
Marc:Right, regulate my tone.
Marc:How long have you lived in the Mar Vista place?
Guest:Let's see, I've been in Mar Vista probably just about six years.
Guest:Before that, Santa Monica, before that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:More like a- You're always a West Side guy?
Guest:No, before Santa Monica would have been like, I was Beachwood for a while, Beachwood Drive.
Guest:Is that where you started?
Guest:No, I started down like in a charming place down below Olympic and sort of La Cienega area.
Guest:I don't even know if that has a name.
Marc:Oh yeah, just sort of like, I don't know.
Guest:I just arrived in California limbo.
Guest:Right, I don't know where I am.
Guest:Let me just find a place.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where'd you come from?
Guest:This seems cheap.
Guest:I came from North Carolina, Charlotte.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You came directly from there to here?
Guest:Yeah, I graduated.
Guest:I went to Chapel Hill and then came right straight out here.
Guest:Chapel Hill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that in Raleigh?
Guest:It's in the Raleigh-Durham area.
Guest:It's Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
Guest:It's like Duke and Carolina and even NC State are within 20 minutes of each other.
Marc:That's like the only groovy triangle.
Guest:It's a good research triangle, as they call it.
Marc:Like anything outside of there, dangerous.
Guest:Not worth it.
Marc:Just scary.
Marc:No.
Marc:Gets a little regional and kind of weird.
Guest:No reason to go.
Marc:No reason to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It changes quickly.
Guest:Like within a few miles.
Guest:Oh, God, yeah.
Guest:Oh, there's hill people.
Guest:No.
Ah!
Guest:It's true, right?
Guest:No, it's my family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Your family.
Guest:My people live on the other side of the wall.
Guest:Do they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what does that mean?
Marc:Where'd you grow up exactly?
Guest:No, I grew up right in Charlotte, so it couldn't be more of like a, well, we know, Bank of America city.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Like where everything falls apart.
Marc:Do you have people?
Marc:Is your family there forever kind of deal?
Guest:Yeah, I think my dad signed on for forever.
Guest:He's there in Charlotte and has been since for me.
Guest:My mom sort of escaped right after high school.
Guest:After I graduated, she took off for New Mexico.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:To explore something new.
Marc:Something other than your father.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that started at age seven.
Guest:You were seven?
Guest:Within the confines of Charlotte, they still were away from each other.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And then she, with her new husband, moved to New Mexico.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I should introduce you.
Marc:Jim Rash, Oscar Award winner.
Marc:Academy Award winner.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:For writing.
Marc:Either one's work.
Marc:A movie.
Marc:Best adaptation, correct?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And the star, one of the stars of the show community.
Marc:I've never done this proper in intro.
Guest:That's okay.
Guest:So we have that whole little great intro and then they figure out who I am.
Marc:Yeah, I like to do that.
Marc:It's like, I wonder who... They've got nothing to go on in that first five minutes.
Guest:Zero.
Marc:They've got North Carolina, a divorce, New Mexico, hill people, Chapel Hill.
Marc:There's nothing they could... No detective.
Guest:No, and there was nothing to really hook them up.
Guest:They could turn it off and just say, I don't know, some guy from North Carolina who hates the people on the other side of the wall in the research triangle.
Marc:Whatever wall that is, and Bank of America was involved, and Mark mentioned hill people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:I think that's the index for this episode.
Marc:I would.
Marc:That's your soundbite.
Guest:That's going to get a number of listeners.
Marc:Yeah, that's going to be the teaser.
Marc:Guess who this is.
Guest:Whoa, this is pretty good.
Guest:Pretty interesting.
Yeah.
Guest:What part of New Mexico did she end up in?
Guest:She ended up in Albuquerque.
Guest:That's where I grew up.
Guest:Oh, did you?
Guest:I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:She lived Placidas then.
Guest:Oh, Placidas, that's where the hippies used to live.
Guest:That's where she gravitated toward.
Guest:She really went to find herself.
Guest:She went to find herself.
Guest:She went there, Placidas, and then ended up on the other side of Albuquerque, Boleyn.
Guest:In Boleyn?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Super small town.
Guest:How old were you when she moved there?
Guest:I was in high school.
Guest:Well, I went to college and she moved.
Guest:So pretty much once she knew that I was off out of high school, she packed her bags.
Guest:See you later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was done.
Marc:What drives someone to, well, I understand Placidas.
Marc:That's sort of like anything but the South.
Marc:I'm going to go to, it's pretty there.
Guest:It's beautiful.
Guest:It is on the way to Santa Fe.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, it's right between Albuquerque and Santa Fe, a little off to the left there, north.
Guest:off the highway i was just there but back in the day it used to be sort of rugged yeah when she was there i don't even know what year this would have been because she was working at like the public television station in uh albuquerque k nme k nme yeah yeah she was working there she was like one of those she's like that pledge drive person you always see on the phone yeah well no lady on the phone no she's not the one yeah she's always
Guest:I love that she has a career of sitting in the banks of phones.
Guest:In the back.
Guest:Oh, what a great job.
Guest:She's the one not sleeping.
Guest:These aren't volunteers.
Guest:They're paid for this.
Guest:No, she was a person in the microphone saying, call now.
Guest:You can get this lovely tote bag or this umbrella.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She was on air talent.
Marc:Is that something she was dying to do?
Guest:Well, she did that in Charlotte as well.
Guest:So she did it in two different places.
Guest:For the pledge drive?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Well, she was in, I guess, this membership.
Guest:So that's part of their job.
Marc:Oh, so she worked in public television.
Marc:I don't want to trivialize it.
Marc:This was not an on-air dream.
Marc:It was just sort of like, you want to do this?
Guest:No, yeah.
Guest:She says, I want to raise money for public television for shows like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers.
Guest:That's what they always had to say.
Guest:And the McNeil-era report.
Guest:And the McNeil-era.
Guest:Coming up next.
Guest:Uninterrupted.
Guest:If you love your television commercial free.
Guest:I remember going as a kid because she would be doing them and so we would go, my sister and I, we would sort of hang out while, you know, they went until about 10 or something.
Guest:But the best part of it was they always had like just fast food and that kind of stuff.
Marc:And people were hanging out and it was like show business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, big time show business.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:There's the camera.
Marc:There's mom.
Marc:There's a camera.
Marc:I see how this works.
Marc:One camera.
Marc:There's a bank of phones of people who are being paid.
Marc:That's that lady that visits sometimes on that phone
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Isn't that her son?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I met him once.
Guest:Oh, he's there.
Guest:What's he doing on camera?
Guest:But yeah, she did that and did that again in Albuquerque.
Guest:So you got one sister?
Guest:I have one older sister, yeah.
Guest:And that's it?
Guest:Just the two of you?
Guest:Just the two of us.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Is she in show business?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:She's back in Raleigh.
Guest:Raleigh.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Raleigh, that's where the comedy club I worked at.
Guest:Was that the- Charlie Goodnight.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Worked there once, never went back.
Marc:Why not?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Something went wrong.
Marc:Maybe my attitude.
Marc:It was a long time ago.
Marc:But I remember thinking that was a nice area.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it's weird with those kind of areas is that whenever there's colleges involved, there's this illusion that it's progressive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think in Raleigh, they kind of hold on to that.
Marc:It's sort of like the Portland of the South or like it's one of those areas where it's like, we're freaks here.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Be careful, though.
Marc:Don't travel.
Marc:Like you said before, not progressive at all.
Guest:No, radically not progressive.
Guest:That's the tough part.
Guest:I think it's a conflicting place because I think you'd find a number of people who were surprised that happened.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:And I think that you go from, yeah, I mean, I think that whole research triangle to talk about it.
Guest:It's like Chapel Hill, I think, is a very liberal area.
Guest:A state can be more conservative.
Guest:It's just a collection of different thoughts.
Guest:Duke, probably the same as Chapel Hill.
Marc:And then there's just a lot of people quietly hating.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They're on the other side of that wall.
Marc:Those hill people just hating.
Marc:Very friendly.
Marc:Hi, how are you?
Marc:One of them.
Guest:Them progressive people on the other side of that wall.
Marc:When I used to do Air America, we used to get calls from that area because we piped into somewhere down.
Marc:I think it might have been Raleigh on a station there.
Marc:And you literally get these calls from people like, I can't talk very well.
Marc:I'm downstairs in my family's house.
Marc:Just thank you for what you're doing up there.
Marc:There are people here.
Marc:I gotta go.
Marc:I gotta go.
Guest:I love that.
Marc:Fantastic.
Marc:You better not be on that phone.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I'm not, Ma.
Marc:I'm not, Ma.
Marc:Is your father that way?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He still lives in Charlotte.
Guest:But like redneck-y-ish?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:It's funny because I've been out here long enough in LA, like over 15 years, where accent sort of fades.
Guest:Did you have one?
No.
Guest:I imagine I did, not a heavy one, I don't know, unless I just completely mastered the craft.
Guest:A mild one?
Guest:A mild one.
Guest:A mild one.
Guest:A mild one.
Guest:But when I get on the phone with my relatives or go home, I realize your ear has sort of changed, so you hear it.
Guest:And you're like, just a slight thing, maybe just a slight.
Guest:I grew up with some hicks, no.
Guest:But they're not that bad.
Guest:But you don't hear yourself do it?
Guest:I hear it now and then, certainly, when I'm on the phone with them.
Guest:Who the hell is that?
Guest:Who the hell is that?
Guest:Well, especially, yeah, when I'm recording.
Guest:What are you making me do?
Guest:Yeah, oh my God, what's happening?
Guest:But yeah, they still got an accent, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and what racket was your dad in?
Guest:He, well right now he works for the University of North Carolina Charlotte.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before that he was in a small company called Bank of America.
Marc:Oh really, so is that where it's centered?
Guest:Well there's lots, there were and at the time a bunch of banks were centered.
Guest:Wachovia and Bank of America and First Union and now, you know, went from.
Marc:So you haven't got any good hillbilly stories?
Marc:Do I?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like when you were growing up like this, like I've talked to people from the South.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I always apologize for my, I've grown to, I like the South a lot, but it always gets characterized as sort of like the class, any hick voice is, I don't know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Like no matter where they're from, it's like, I met this guy in Wyoming.
Marc:Oh shit.
Marc:They didn't talk like that there.
Guest:No.
Marc:Every hick has to have that, well, I'm not, you know what?
Guest:It does feel like the go-to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like you go there and you're like, well, it's not something much like that.
Marc:But there's intelligent people that talk with that accent.
Guest:Well, most of those people are just using it, you know, in a different type of way, you know.
Guest:Oh, Jim.
Guest:Oh my God, we just enjoy you over here, you know.
Guest:You should get on that show, Seinfeld.
Guest:Did they say that to you now?
Guest:They did when that show was on.
Guest:They'd always go, you know what you should do?
Guest:You should get on that show, Seinfeld.
Guest:You should, I bet they'd appreciate a phone call from you and appreciate the gumption and just say, I want to be on your show.
Marc:I love people who have no understanding of show business.
Marc:They're being good-hearted, but they don't realize that they're knifing you when they say that.
Marc:Why don't you just get on a successful show?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's exactly.
Guest:Don't you know anybody?
Guest:It's our choice.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:What I've seen you in, I have not cared for, but here are a list of shows that I would approve if I saw you.
Marc:I don't always understand Seinfeld, but maybe you could bring some of that charm that you have to it.
Marc:But did you study theater in college?
Guest:You know, I did theater at Chapel Hill, but I think that's one of those things you look back and I wish I had actually majored in theater.
Guest:I majored in film and television production, which is a...
Guest:A major that doesn't even exist there anymore, you know, because you're just using this archaic equipment.
Guest:I mean, we were shooting our films, quote unquote films, on three quarter video.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Huge.
Guest:Huge, giant tapes like they would have on Broadcast Newsly or running through the halls to get it on air.
Guest:And these giant packs you would strap over your shoulder and carry and white balance.
Guest:Everything was just, you know, it didn't make any sense.
Marc:It took like six hours just to get everything up and going.
Guest:And you probably didn't get it.
Guest:No, you can do it on your phone now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:I know.
Guest:This is like, yeah, back in the day.
Guest:No, but it's true.
Guest:But it was.
Guest:It was.
Guest:And so looking back, I wish I had majored in theater.
Guest:They have such a great program there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, isn't there a big sort of a film school now somewhere?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:Yeah, the North Carolina School of the Arts has a huge film grant.
Guest:That's pretty new, right?
Guest:Yeah, that was- That's Danny McBride and those guys, right?
Guest:Yeah, that was one of the reasons.
Guest:Yes, that was one of the reasons that they had sort of folded the major I had because-
Guest:North Carolina School of the Arts, another, I guess, state school, had this program.
Marc:And you were already finishing up by the time you- Well, we were the last ones.
Guest:They were like, as soon as that, they folded it into the journalism school, which is a strong school at Chapel Hill as well, and made it like a film theory.
Guest:So I guess if you've ever really- There's no- Want to just talk about film and really get into the nuts and bolts of it, there's a place to go.
Guest:I minored in that.
Guest:Oh, did you?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:I've got a degree in conversation.
Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'm an English major with a film studies minor.
Marc:That's what I am equipped to do.
Marc:That's perfect.
Marc:About movies.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:See?
Marc:But did you, in college, were you about directing or did you know you wanted to act?
Guest:A little bit of both, because they had a student television station in Chapel Hill, and I got involved with that, and we were making, you know, just networks would foam at the mouths for the quality that we were.
Guest:Do you still have those tapes?
Guest:Oh, my God, yeah.
Guest:Again, three-quarter, which are useless.
Guest:No, I did have them transferred.
Guest:You've got to get transferred.
Guest:No, I've had them transferred to DVD.
Guest:They're fantastic, because they're horrible.
Guest:both in the acting that I'm presenting, but also just in what I guess I thought was hilarious.
Guest:When do you get to release those?
Guest:Oh, I should.
Guest:I tell you, I should post them because there was a show called General College, which was a soap opera.
Guest:And by the time I sort of got involved, the soap opera had sort of faded and just became sort of a standalone, like episode to episode with these recurring characters.
Guest:And just, oh, just horrendous stuff.
Guest:Horrendous stuff.
Guest:I had broken my jaw in college.
Guest:How'd you do that?
Guest:Oh, imagine, can you guess?
Guest:You didn't get hit, did you?
Guest:No, no, I wish it was a good fight.
Guest:No, it was just, it was blacking out and not catching myself and landing right on the pavement.
Guest:You broke your drawed junk.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:That's pretty Southern.
Guest:Man, and that was freshman year, first semester.
Guest:Oh, hell yeah.
Guest:That's how you do it, man.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Oh, GM, you really conquer college.
Guest:Oh, I remember I called, it got wired shut.
Guest:Oh, how long was it wired shut for?
Guest:Wired shut for like about a month.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:About a month.
Marc:And that was right when you started school?
Guest:Oh yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was first semester.
Guest:So you were the guy who- I just became the guy who walked around and- How you doing?
Guest:Yeah, no, it was like, the only good news was there was no participation in class.
Guest:You just go, I can't do it.
Marc:But you couldn't socialize?
Marc:You were just, were you like automatically sort of isolated?
Guest:Well, trust me, my social life took a huge hit because before this-
Guest:I was a freshman in college.
Guest:Instantly, I was liked and loved.
Marc:How was the high school experience for you?
Guest:I was pretty good.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:You had friends?
Guest:People like you?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:What?
Guest:The two of them were fantastic.
Guest:Well, thank God.
Guest:As long as they were loyal.
Guest:Thank God for Marty and Peanut.
Guest:Peanut.
Guest:It's got to be a guy named Peanut.
Guest:I hope so, Peanut.
Guest:It was good.
Guest:I enjoyed high school.
Guest:I didn't have a bad experience.
Marc:No, there's got to be some badness.
Marc:No bullying, no kicking ass.
Guest:Well, I bullied.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Good for you.
Marc:Oh, yeah, you have to.
Guest:Yeah, just to learn.
Marc:Let people know where you stay.
Marc:You got to learn.
Marc:You got to know both sides of it.
Guest:No, I- What were you in high school?
Guest:Were you a nerd or-
Guest:No, I think I'm that guy who hovers in between.
Guest:Oh, everywhere?
Guest:You shift.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In other words, you're friends with a number of people.
Guest:Diplomat.
Guest:Yeah, you're a diplomat, exactly.
Guest:So you're funny enough to sort of bridge yourself into this popular group.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're easily accessible to, well, you're probably more a member of this lower angle, but somehow you've huddled into the middle.
Marc:Right, and then the stoners don't know how you pull it off.
Marc:No.
Marc:And they're happier there.
Guest:You know what you are?
Guest:You're high school bearable.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's what you are.
Marc:Yeah, you're that guy.
Guest:It's a funny guy.
Guest:I don't hate him.
Guest:I don't love him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Guest:He's all right.
Guest:He's okay.
Marc:He made me laugh that time.
Guest:He's that guy who did that one thing that wasn't, was sort of funny.
Marc:That was sort of funny.
Marc:And then the jocks are sort of like, don't kick his ass.
Marc:He made us, he's all right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:Exactly, that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right, so you go through the whole carting around, making funny videos that in retrospect aren't funny.
Marc:So what was the decision?
Marc:Like, you know, I'm going to Hollywood.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that was, first I went through that, should I go to New York?
Guest:Should I become a page at NBC?
Guest:That was an option though.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I am 40.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so in my mind, I was like, that was the way you got to SNL, getting that page program.
Guest:So you were looking at SNL from early on.
Guest:I thought about that for a second.
Guest:And then I just realized, I just felt like that was limiting.
Guest:And I decided to get a used car, pack it up, and drive to- To Olympic and La Cienega.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Oh my God, what a place.
Marc:When you drove out, was it one of those sort of like, I'm free, I'm going to look at the country?
Guest:Did you do that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did do a little bit of that.
Guest:I was, you know, driving by yourself, and I guess I didn't have a context like that.
Guest:It didn't seem very scary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember, you know, my car is pretty good and packed, which obviously if anyone's seen me in a hotel, it probably should just take everything.
Guest:And I had one of those great Macintosh Pluses, you know, that small R2-D2 size one.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, the rectangle.
Guest:Yeah, with a little screen.
Guest:The screen you can barely see.
Guest:That's sort of a brown color, I think.
Guest:Then you got that in college.
Guest:Oh, God, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Yeah, it was loaded with probably great papers.
Guest:A gift, probably.
Guest:Of course it was a gift.
Guest:It was a welcome to college gift.
Guest:It was a great computer.
Guest:But I remember, yeah, I just drove across.
Guest:I stopped.
Guest:My mom obviously lived in New Mexico at the time.
Guest:So I stayed with her about a week and then I finished the drive.
Guest:What kind of car was it?
Guest:Oh, it was like a Honda Accord, used.
Guest:Used?
Guest:Passed down?
Guest:Was it your dad's?
Guest:No, we got it for that.
Guest:I didn't have a car until that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you knew how to drive.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, it's just like, I mean, when I first drove across country, I remember like, you know, I'm going to go to Memphis and go to Graceland, get that done.
Marc:And then I'm going to go to Texas and I want to go to the Mark Rothko Chapel in Houston because I want to see those paintings, you know, and I get some reading done on the train.
Marc:Like I did like a lot of that kind of stuff, like, you know, chasing down, you know, people I respected and idolized.
Marc:Did you have literature or poets or things that you needed?
Guest:No, I feel like mine was more lame.
Guest:I think I just sort of made my way across.
Guest:Spent a long time in the panhandle and realized how long you'd been there.
Guest:And other than that, I think I just- Wow, Oklahoma's long.
Guest:Well, I think in my mind, I was just like, God, I get to New Mexico.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That's like one of the great crossings.
Marc:Like if you drove across the Panhandle, it's like the change between either Texas or Oklahoma and New Mexico is huge.
Guest:You're like, oh, it's beautiful.
Guest:It is beautiful, yeah.
Marc:You get to Los Angeles, and the first time I came to L.A., I had no idea what I was getting into anywhere.
Marc:I left.
Marc:I was only here a year, but I stayed at a friend's house.
Marc:I was in show business, and I'm like, all right, let's write a screenplay.
Marc:And then we did that, and then I ended up in Hollywood.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Who's phone?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Oh, are we taking calls?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:That's okay if we are.
Marc:That was horrible.
Marc:Now watch.
Marc:The fax machine will pick up.
Marc:But what were your expectations?
Marc:There it is, there's the facts.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It could be important though.
Guest:I'm gonna have to unplug that.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:You stay on the mic.
Guest:I'm staying on the mic.
Guest:Can I get a place where we are speaking?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, man, this garage is full, Peter.
Guest:Where's Peanut?
Guest:Oh, he's not here.
Guest:I shouldn't be doing both lines for both characters.
Guest:It's not working.
Guest:Guys, this fax.
Guest:This fax is going crazy.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And then on the other line, someone's like, if we can just get this fax to Mark.
Marc:It's important.
Guest:This contract.
Marc:Please tell Jim not to talk about any of his past.
Guest:That's a classic fax from my mom.
Guest:Jim, don't say anything to the man on the microphone.
Guest:I'm faxing you.
Guest:I don't have time to call or leave a message.
Guest:I gotta get this fax to you.
Guest:Does she talk like that?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, I wish she did.
Guest:I know, I do too now.
Guest:Damn it.
Guest:No, she talks boring.
Marc:So were you set up when you got here?
Marc:Were you like, okay, I got a guy.
Marc:I know that guy.
Marc:No.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:I knew a guy who graduated two years before me.
Guest:It's basically where my first connection was made.
Guest:And I remember he lived in Manhattan Beach, which anyone's out here knows.
Guest:It's quite south of Los Angeles.
Marc:Isn't it weird when you get here that first time and you're like,
Marc:what, you can't even wrap your brain around here?
Guest:You can't wrap it, and I came in at night, and so I woke up in Manhattan Beach, and again, anyone who's been there, it's beautiful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's beautiful, and it's quaint, and it is anything but L.A.
Guest:at the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so when I woke up, I was like, L.A.
Guest:is awesome.
Guest:This is the best.
Guest:So in my head, I'm thinking, I'm gonna find a place, this is beautiful, it's quaint, I love the shops, I'm walking around, and then all of a sudden, it's like, the first time I had to drive to L.A., quote unquote, to, I think I was going to some audition, and
Guest:I realized, oh, I'm not even where close.
Marc:You were going to an audition?
Guest:No, I was going to the Groundlings Theater, actually.
Guest:I had heard about the Groundlings and I was going to go to the audition.
Guest:And so I had no idea.
Guest:And of course, I got completely lost.
Marc:But that was your plan.
Marc:You had a plan when you got out here.
Guest:Well, within that first week in Manhattan Beach and realizing I was nowhere close to Los Angeles in a way, I had heard someone had told me about the Groundlings.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I went there blindly.
Guest:You didn't know that they SNL people?
Guest:I just knew it was sketch comedy improv.
Guest:Improv, no.
Guest:And you'd not done any of that before?
Guest:I did some bad improv in college, but I think we all did.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:We were all in buckets of nuts.
Guest:Yeah, sure, sure.
Marc:This is funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:knock knock who's there we are you know any of these great numbers any of these great groups that exist in college sure i swear i wish somebody would do i maybe it's not funny i just feel like the improv world would be such a funny if everyone told which what their group's name was your group name was and then see that movie of some big improv festival jam oh that maybe it's only funny to some people maybe there's already been one i don't know i don't know that do they have that do they have improv oh they have festivals i know that
Marc:Where competing groups go?
Marc:With all the names?
Guest:Oh, God, yeah.
Guest:I went to one in Chicago.
Guest:It was called The Big Stinkin', I think.
Guest:Or was that in Austin?
Guest:I've been to one in Austin and one in Chicago.
Guest:You've got to make that movie.
Guest:How fun would that be?
Marc:Like a fake documentary?
Guest:You get improvisers to improvise.
Guest:Being improvisers.
Guest:Improvisers.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It writes itself.
Guest:Oh, it's already written.
Guest:It speaks itself.
Guest:I'm watching it.
Guest:We should copyright it.
Guest:It's copyright.
Guest:If anyone does it and you listen to this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the, yeah, so I went straight there.
Marc:Now wait, am I part of that?
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:So it's our project?
Guest:No, you added some great information.
Guest:Hints, improv.
Marc:And we literally have yes-ended our way to a huge budget movie.
Marc:This is the pitch.
Marc:This is a pitch.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:I'm registering it at the Guild right now.
Guest:Registered.
Guest:Registered.
Guest:So anyone, you just give up.
Guest:I would love that you just play this back for the pitch because we don't really have time to talk about it again.
Guest:But just listen to this podcast.
Marc:Only if you go in with me.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:Just sit here.
Marc:We're going to play this for you.
Marc:Go to minute 20.
Guest:You'll love it.
Marc:We'll be outside.
Marc:Let us know.
Guest:Let us know.
Guest:There's some great stuff about a fax.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Listen to the beginning, too.
Marc:There's weird information where you don't know who Jim's in the area.
Guest:You don't know who he is.
Guest:Just some weird guy talking about it.
Marc:So, okay, so you drive to Hollywood to the Groundlings, which is on, what, Melrose?
Marc:It's on Melrose, yeah.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:Because I've only talked to a few Groundlings, oddly.
Guest:rachel uh harris yes we came through the same exact time i think she mentioned that uh yeah she came through we were both in the what's called the sunday company which is sort of like your you know uh i guess the farm team until you're sort of moved into the main company but when you auditioned it's it's just interesting to me you had really no idea what you're getting into i did not know the history of the place or this was you were an actor you had pictures did you come with pictures
Guest:I think I came with a headshot because they told you to bring one, yeah.
Marc:So you had a headshot done in North Carolina.
Guest:Well, I had the headshot done out here.
Guest:Oh, you did?
Guest:By my first week, I sort of got started.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You went right to it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, you have to get right to it.
Guest:And it's a beautiful black and white picture.
Guest:You still have those?
Guest:With probably a sweater vest, I'm sure.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Smile.
Marc:Did you have a composite?
Guest:No, I did.
Guest:I think luckily, age-wise, I missed the composite generation, you know, just by a hair, literally.
Guest:But I did not have a composite.
Guest:They're fantastic.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:The composite, different expressions, different hats.
Guest:I'm holding a phone.
Guest:I can be a construction worker.
Guest:I can be a secretary.
Guest:I can use scissors.
Guest:I mean, you can pretty much take a picture of whatever you want.
Guest:I can use scissors.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:i did i remember you do you when you write your special skills yeah and to look back on those and say what was i thinking putting putting some of these sketches well just like first of all you write on your resume dumb dialects sure as if someone's like oh okay you know i can do british i probably had british yeah southern that's probably all i had yeah north carolina north carolina yes specific regional regional
Guest:Regional.
Marc:I do not... Regional Southern dialects.
Guest:Oh, that's fantastic.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:They go, we're looking for more of Georgia.
Guest:I'm sorry, I cannot.
Marc:No, that's out of my wheelhouse.
Guest:I can give you Virginia.
Guest:I can give you a little bit of Tennessee.
Guest:But the... Yeah, no, I remember I put...
Guest:I could juggle, but I remember putting juggling, and that got me in trouble because I went to some audition where it was more professional jugglers.
Guest:But, you know, anybody can grab three tennis balls, and most likely can't.
Marc:But you're in the waiting room with the guy with rings?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:As soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I shouldn't be here.
Marc:The guy with a chainsaw machete and an apple?
Marc:The guy from Venice Beach?
Guest:Oh, my God, he's here?
Guest:He's here.
Guest:Oh, he's here.
Guest:I love that I already knew him.
Guest:Oh, boy, that guy from Venice Beach is here.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Well, juggling's a weird thing because that's something you really only learn if you're not doing your homework.
Marc:Like juggling, I remember in college, like I'm going to, you know, and then you get the two balls in one hand and you know, for hours.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there was that moment where you toss.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That moment though.
Guest:That's that moment that you actually get it.
Guest:You might get one.
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:My life has purpose.
Guest:I can juggle three balls.
Guest:It's an amazing moment.
Guest:It really isn't.
Guest:Anyone who out there, it's just one of those things.
Guest:Talk about something else that needs to be in a movie.
Guest:Just the moment you learn to tackle.
Guest:Start now, people.
Marc:You start with two balls, tennis balls.
Marc:Get those going in one hand.
Marc:And then you just kind of move the left hand and then let that ball go.
Guest:And at some point, just throw it in there and see what happens.
Guest:You know what I love is they always had those, you know, when you get those books on juggling, like, you know, klutz, juggling for klutz or whatever.
Guest:And it would always be a drawing where they just drew a dotted line to show you where that ball needs to go.
Guest:And you go, I don't think this drawing is helping at all.
Guest:The trajectory.
Guest:So you did go to a juggling audition, though.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was a commercial audition, and they asked for professional jugglers.
Guest:And so by the time I got there and I saw people really juggling, and I literally brought three tennis balls, and other people had, like you said, pins, whatever they wanted to juggle.
Guest:So I sort of...
Guest:I decided to go scratch my name out.
Guest:Like, I'd already signed in.
Guest:I said, this is not for me, and I do not care to go inside.
Guest:So I started scratching.
Guest:Of course, she comes out of the room, and I'm erasing it.
Guest:And anybody who's ever been on a commercial audition knows, one, that for some reason, there's two things that will piss them off.
Guest:One is erasing and messing up this complicated sign-in sheet.
Guest:And she's like, she says, is there a problem?
Guest:I go, well, I'm not really a professional juggler.
Guest:She goes, uh-huh, this is for professional jugglers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know, I just said that to you.
Guest:I don't know why you're throwing back my comment with more venom than I gave to you.
Guest:But that and then when you go to your headshots and they're used to staple.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you would always, you'd be sitting in that room and inevitably someone would come out and go, guys, do not staple your headshots.
Guest:The clients are cutting their fingers and it is.
Guest:They're so mad because they're cutting their fingers on staples.
Guest:So you always get berated for something.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's the audition thing is is too hilarious.
Marc:It never stops being funny.
Marc:No.
Marc:So when but was that the moment you realize like, wow, show business is large.
Marc:You're at an audition requiring professional juggers, and there's 10 there, and you're like, much bigger than I ever imagined.
Marc:Yeah, the pool is much bigger than I thought.
Marc:Did you do those auditions before you did the Groundlings?
Guest:Commercially, maybe.
Guest:Once I got into the school program at Groundlings, I was primarily going out for commercials.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and that's, you know, that's a world within itself.
Guest:Did you do a lot of them?
Guest:I didn't, you know, I think I did one or two.
Guest:I just, I didn't, and I think it's true.
Guest:There are people that just click into that, and I don't know what that secret is, but they get on a run, and then, you know, directors want to use them, and you see them all the time, and then they become saturated, and they take some time off, and they come right back, and, you know, and I never really got into that world like that, so...
Marc:All of a sudden, you're a big guy.
Marc:And you've been around for a long time trying to do this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I don't know how you feel about your career in retrospect, but I mean, the last couple of years have been huge for you.
Guest:I would say, yeah.
Guest:The last few years, starting probably with Community, starting three years ago, and then this whole thing...
Guest:has been a complete change.
Guest:Excuse me.
Guest:You know, I think in retrospect, looking back, I think I was pretty lucky in the sense of, like, there were a number of years nothing was happening, of course, with anyone.
Guest:I was waiting tables, all that kind of stuff.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I was waiting tables at...
Guest:uh calendars on wilshire uh which is the fancy marie calendars but but that was had you done some work and you were still waiting tables i mean like oh yeah yeah i had done that commercial with still waiting tables because you you realize pretty fast especially in a commercial that was like a limited run like a month yeah there's no reason to quit your job right you have not made it
Guest:And so I was going out commercials, waiting tables, and taking classes.
Guest:That was pretty much the beginning.
Marc:And in terms of the classes, who were the people you were working with?
Marc:You were working with Rachel, but Will Ferrell was still around and all those people were still around?
Guest:Will Ferrell probably was in the company when I first started.
Guest:What year are we talking?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:I've been in the Groundlings.
Guest:I've been an actual member almost 13 years and then a year- You're always a member?
Guest:Once you're a member?
Guest:Well, I mean, I am still actually in the company, but you can step down and become an alumni.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I have not, which- You still go work over there?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I do the improv shows more often.
Guest:I've directed sketch shows.
Guest:I haven't actually performed in a sketch show in probably over a year or more, but I've directed since then.
Guest:So I'm definitely pulling away as far as that kind of stuff.
Guest:But I still love doing improv, and that's such easy just to show up.
Guest:It's better than going out and buying your wigs just to play.
Guest:Your costumes.
Guest:And writing bad bits.
Guest:I think I've done enough of that.
Marc:Oh, there's always something like whenever I do stand-up shows at the UCB, there's always some, you know, there's another show after.
Marc:Every show's an hour, and you're always kind of like, you know you're running long, and Mr. Waffle's probably getting upset.
Marc:Oh, God, that's a great group.
Guest:I love Mr. Waffle.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:Cutting-edge stuff.
Guest:Well, I love they run out and they go, anyone up for some extra syrup?
Guest:And no one knows what that means, but that means they want to go a little extra long.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They all know what it means, and that's all that's important when you're a group.
Guest:Yeah, and they're just waiting for the audience to sort of get that as their catchphrase and chime in with them.
Guest:Who's got the t-shirt?
Guest:I'm an extra syrup guy.
Guest:But, yeah, so I don't know what year that was Farrell was in, but he was probably...
Guest:He and Kathy Griffin, and they might have been in the company when I first started classes, but it takes a while to go through all the classes.
Marc:So it's like the early 90s here?
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it would be, let's see, I got out here in 94.
Guest:So this would have been 95, 96.
Marc:And so did everything sort of start happening at once?
Marc:Did you get visibility and a manager from the groundlings?
Guest:No, it took a while.
Guest:I wasn't really, anything was happening.
Guest:And then I ended up doing, after one of my classes, a classmate wrote a play, a small one act or something.
Guest:Fun.
Guest:Not the best of plays, but we did a little run of it.
Guest:Isn't that weird theater in LA?
Guest:It's kind of weird, right?
Guest:It's very weird.
Marc:It all has a purpose.
Marc:It's never a theater for theater's sake.
Guest:No.
Marc:It's all like a one-man show, and we're gonna bring people in.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Well, I've done plenty of, not the one-man shows, but I've done, like, we finished a class level at the Groundlings where you actually do write sketches.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we're like, oh, my God.
Guest:The audience, which is family and friends,
Guest:loved our sketch show we should totally take this for an 8 to 10 week run somewhere and then we did we rented this the Stella Adler theater up on Hollywood Boulevard which is way too big for much people to do a sketch show
Guest:And I remember that we got a good deal on it because a friend in our group had a friend who worked at Stella Adler.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they were getting ready to do Tennessee Williams.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they said, unfortunately, we cannot take the Tennessee Williams sketch down.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The set down.
Guest:So they said, you have to do your sketch show on the existing set.
Guest:Which one was it?
Guest:So here we have this like, what do you call those?
Guest:Victrollas, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So you have all this elegant furniture and we're trying to do these sort of modern office scenes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:sitting on this antique furniture.
Guest:And then that show closed and a Greek play opened.
Guest:So we did the second half of our run on this weird Greek steps that was sort of just a collection of steps and platforms.
Guest:So literally to make an exit out of a scene, you went up the stairs.
Guest:So it's like, I'm out of here.
Guest:Up the stairs.
I'm out of here.
Guest:And which for sketch, where timing is everything.
Guest:It just killed.
Guest:Oh, it was horrible.
Marc:And you did rip on either one?
Guest:It was at a point where we thought these sketches were so perfect they could not be changed.
Guest:It was horrible.
Guest:Rachel Harris was in that show.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She can tell you.
Guest:And how was the response to that show?
Guest:The first night when you got enough of your friends to come, great.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Then when regular people came or the five that would, there was many a night that I had to make an entrance from the back of the room and someone wasn't leaving early.
Guest:So it was one of those things like, thank you for coming.
Guest:As you're in some crazy outfit, bless you for coming.
Marc:There's just those moments where you're trying to do this thing and, you know, you have those moments where you know exactly where you are and what you're doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Ten people in a largely empty theater.
Marc:There's this the streetcar set is up and you're about to do your goofy sketch on stage.
Marc:You're walking through with intent and purpose.
Guest:Yeah, it's like, I love the streetcar, and then there's some bad exposition set up, like, oh, Phil's come here.
Guest:You didn't invite Phil, did you?
Guest:And then open the antique, you know, the beautiful Tennessee Williams door at Creeks, and come in, hey, guys, did someone say me?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And laughter ensues.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Marc:Nice, nice.
Marc:The Simpsons cough.
Marc:Oh, five people.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right, so how do you get from there?
Marc:What were your first gigs?
Guest:My very first, my first, outside of commercials, my first line ever was on the show Sybil.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:Sybil Shepard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a one-line event.
Guest:It was maybe a two-liner.
Guest:It was sort of like, I think the first line was something like asking who was the owner of a certain make of car, I can't remember, and then Sybil said, that's me.
Guest:And then I had the second hilarious line, oh, well, it's been towed.
Guest:You parked in Betty White's spot and something, something, something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Were you always cast?
Marc:I mean, you do have a... I'm trying to figure out what your character is or what they were using you as.
Guest:You go through phases.
Marc:Now the character is so over the top and hilarious.
Marc:Dean Pelton is like this thing unto himself.
Marc:But before you were sort of like, were you the persnickety...
Guest:Yes, I went through nebbish nerd, persnickety assistant, you know, fey assistant to, oh God, angry guy to- You were angry guy?
Guest:Oh, well I've done that sort of like snarky.
Guest:You go through these weird things where you audition and you got this part and then all of a sudden they think of you for these things.
Guest:So it's weird.
Guest:You basically are always battling that last job you just had.
Guest:You're always battling whatever you were seeing as last.
Marc:What was the biggest battle?
Marc:To overcome persnickety?
Marc:That seems the most limiting.
Guest:Persnickety can be very limiting.
Guest:I have no idea what's going to happen, you know, knock on wood, it's not anytime soon, but once Dean Pelton, we have to close our doors, I'm like, oh, I'm going to have to fight this battle not to be, you know, known as, you know, Dean Pelton, I think.
Guest:What did you call that guy?
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Well, I think...
Guest:Sexual deviance has also been something that I've latched onto.
Guest:From Reno?
Guest:Yeah, I did Reno and now this.
Guest:I think I've hit sort of this little pocket zone of people who are- It's almost like pushing, it's almost camp.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, this is a lot of fun.
Guest:I joke when I don't think I can get past this by any means, because I love playing this character.
Marc:So it could be hard for me to even categorize it as deviancy because it's so over the top.
Guest:Well, it's too innocent.
Guest:I think at the core, it's just, I want to be loved.
Guest:And then, yes, my apartment, if you put a blacklight to it, may be gross.
Guest:But other than that, at my heart, I'm a wonderful person.
Guest:Right, there's not a lot of darkness there, really.
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:I think he's a guy who's on a mission to do right by the school and do right by the people who come through the school.
Guest:I think his heart is always in the right place.
Marc:But he's never self-conscious of how he's presenting himself.
Guest:Well, what I love is that in the beginning, I think it was second season, I had a line where I was making an excuse that I was borrowing my sister's costume.
Guest:And then after that, the excuse never came up again.
Guest:It's as if he said, oh, now I have introduced.
Guest:They just understand.
Guest:Every time I come in here, oh, he went to his sister's and borrowed another outfit.
Guest:In his mind, he's like, I've already opened that gate.
Guest:I don't need to explain myself anymore.
Guest:You get it.
Guest:You get it.
Marc:How did you get together with Harmon?
Guest:It was strictly through the audition.
Guest:They were already shooting the pilot and I had not met Dan at the time and went in and Dan and the subsequent powers that be were on the set and they were having the casting specifically for the dean.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:So they were already in the middle of shooting and so I just auditioned.
Marc:So it wasn't, you didn't submit a writing package because you're a writer on the show too, aren't you?
Guest:No, no, I'm not a writer.
Guest:Not at all?
Guest:No, no, just acting.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how much input do you have though?
Guest:None.
Guest:I mean, in the sense that I just, this is like, that's the job for me is just the acting, you know, and outside of like, you know, the occasional improv that, that,
Guest:I, or any of us, Donald Glover is a big improviser, and any of us might throw something in, but for the most part, it's what's on the page.
Marc:It's such a tight show.
Marc:I mean, I guess you would, watching it, it's not like you're sitting there going, they riffed that, because there were 30 shots in the scene.
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:If you're looking for one, it's usually going to be the button of a scene.
Guest:That's probably most likely where you'll see one within the middle.
Guest:But it's such a dense, you know, there's so much going on.
Guest:It's so fast.
Guest:It's really hard to like throw something in, especially, you know, you'd see these gargantuan speeches they might give Joel to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's not much room.
Marc:But after working on something like Reno, because these are the two.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Was that the longest standing job you had?
Marc:I mean, or did you have that?
Guest:This is the longest as far as going to force me.
Guest:Right, but I mean, you did a lot of episodes on Reno.
Guest:I did about six episodes, I think.
Guest:Well, you know, it's hard because you go and you shoot a bunch of stuff, and then they break up all that stuff and might use it on subsequent episodes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we were, like, for example, the first season, I was just at their, what was their sort of bordello, this kitty cat lounge house, and we did tons of setups, you know, different...
Guest:setups for um scenarios sorry and those will be spread out over a couple of episodes but I did Andrew for for a few seasons yeah and that's that's completely improv and completely a blast I mean it's just like working with those guys with Tom and with Tom and Dan yeah all of them Carlos yeah yeah uh all of them was so great
Marc:Yeah, and then the difference between just having that, that must be like a party, just kind of riffing the whole time.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But with Harmon, I've had him in here, and there's very few people that is just sort of like some sort of genius of some kind.
Guest:No, Dan, first of all, he knows any and everything, both pop culture, TV, maybe there's nothing he doesn't know, but...
Guest:One of the things I will say that has always impressed me from the writer's side of me is watching his process and his ability to break story, which sounds... What does that mean to the average guy?
Guest:Well, he has sort of his own version of a story circle.
Guest:You can actually see it on a blog or something where it's sort of like the hero's journey.
Guest:It's an elaboration or a simplified version of...
Guest:of i think it's joseph joseph campbell yeah campbell that's right so it's it's his sort of version of it which sort of simplifies it in my mind show huh or enjoy that's how they track it you you walk into the writers room and you'll see that circle up on that white whiteboard and it's sliced into pie pieces and and they have labeled everything so i
Marc:For an episode or for the entire series?
Guest:Well, both.
Guest:I think for a series arc, especially this year, I think they were mapping out much more of a wire arc.
Guest:But each subsequent episode is mapped out.
Guest:And I envy that because I think he has just a great handle on story.
Guest:For each character?
Guest:I think for everything I think I think for the evolution of these characters I think he always talks about the third chapter which is our third season is the chapter if you were looking at the circle sort of their darkest hour you know it's like the season's been about all the characters questioning who they are why they're there.
Guest:challenging themselves as individuals and being faced with what they have to do to grow.
Guest:And I think everyone had at least an episode they can point to that said, oh, this got into the nuts and bolts of this person.
Guest:And so the fourth season, as we go into it, hopefully is this sort of,
Guest:what they learn in this chapter into the new beginning.
Marc:So this is the change.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How they've changed.
Guest:I would imagine the fourth season will have that sort of spirit.
Marc:It's so sad to me that something so inspired and so meticulous and brilliant
Marc:It's just at the hands of these number crunchers who don't have any vision, and they're scared.
Guest:It's incredibly archaic the way that ratings are understood or scored.
Guest:It's like, how can technology advance as it has?
Guest:and us still rely on five people in the Midwest or anywhere with a box to tell us who's watching what.
Guest:I don't mean five, but it's a small number.
Marc:There's a paradigm in place that I think, sadly,
Marc:there's still a bit of smoke and mirrors going on in terms of advertisers.
Marc:I think that just from doing a podcast, I know exactly how many people watch this.
Marc:And there's a way to know that with anything.
Marc:But I think they don't want to do that because then the jig might be up.
Guest:yeah because if that's saying you know if advertisers some yeah absolutely and i think some networks would prefer when you're on top you prefer like no no this system works sure let's keep it vague our nielsen numbers for this age group like from the from the 18 to 18 and a half yeah we got it yeah yeah yeah oh my god remember being 18 and 18 and a half you couldn't stop purchasing you purchased all the time
Marc:But I think that's I think they're hiding a big lie.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:And I don't know how it all comes crumbling down.
Marc:But but, you know, ultimately, what ends up paying the price are great shows that that are.
Marc:But I just I never understand how something that has such a passionate following like my community would ever be in doubt.
Marc:I mean, just, you know, you watch it.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God, every every 30 seconds.
Marc:It's like, what's happening here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think there are any shows that have a rabid fan base who went through something like this, who survived longer than anticipated or against all odds.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it really is because the fans travel to wherever we went and the fans...
Guest:sound off and utilize everything to let it be known.
Marc:It always baffles me.
Marc:I can watch that show in any episode without knowing anything.
Marc:It's so meticulously, it's elaborate, it's multi-leveled in the way it's satirizing pop culture and drawing on pop culture and dealing with these characters.
Marc:At any point you enter that show, you're like, holy shit, a lot of work went into this.
Marc:No one's pretending to be like, we just live at this house and that's my kid.
Guest:It really does what I love about the show and other shows like Community that challenge, I think, people, which is the idea that how can you, these people are changing and it's never the same thing, but at the core, the characters are always there.
Guest:We can go to space, we can just sit in a room and look for a pin.
Guest:But the characters is what we're there for.
Guest:It's like you went to Cheers because you love those characters.
Guest:You probably don't remember what happened in that particular one.
Guest:You just remember that you enjoy these people.
Guest:And any show you love, that's what you're looking for, and that's what I believe in this show.
Marc:Sure, and I just think we're right at the cusp where those Cheers people are too old to really care about television anymore.
Marc:They're still clinging on to some of those numbers somehow.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And they're just like, when are they just going to stop mattering?
Marc:When are they not going to be able to buy anything anymore?
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:So when are these kids that enjoy us so much are going to have disposable income?
Marc:When is that going to happen?
Marc:When is that going to happen?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Now, I have to assume that winning an Oscar was not necessarily... In the cards at the time.
Marc:Well, I mean, at all.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:I mean, let's walk through the process of this.
Marc:So you're an actor, and I don't know if a lot of people know this, but many actors are doing whatever the hell they can.
Marc:A lot of people have scripts.
Marc:A lot of people choose to do projects.
Marc:A lot of people try to get as many plates in the air as possible to get something going.
Marc:What was the plan with this?
Guest:In a very similar sort of fashion, my writing partner, Nat Faxon, who I met- An actor as well.
Guest:An actor as well.
Guest:He's been in tons of stuff.
Guest:He and I met at the Groundlings.
Guest:Same thing with Rachel.
Guest:We were all coming through the same time.
Guest:And it was one of those things where you were constantly going out as an actor.
Guest:And like we were just touching upon, you get sort of lopped in these sort of areas.
Guest:And you know what your voice would be or something or what you would love to be seen as.
Guest:So we just said one summer, let's just write a pilot.
Guest:And I had this idea.
Guest:And we workshopped it at the Groundlings and tried it on stage, a stage version.
Guest:Anyway, that cut to we actually ended up doing it at ABC back in like 2005.
Guest:You shot a pilot.
Guest:We shot a pilot.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:It was called Adopted.
Guest:And it was sort of based on both my sister and I are adopted and it's sort of based on the idea of a biological mother finding her son after when he was around in his 20s or something.
Guest:Did you have that happen?
Guest:No, my sister did.
Guest:My sister's biological mother found her via like private investigator type thing.
Guest:Around the time I was at Chapel Hill and she was at law school in Chapel Hill.
Guest:She was getting ready to get married, and I understood that that to be almost like the last little piece that they put together her whereabouts was probably her wedding announcement in the paper or whatever.
Guest:But, yeah, she contacted her.
Guest:She never ended up meeting them.
Guest:They exchanged sort of letters, and my sister just didn't feel the need to meet her at that time.
Guest:but it got us thinking.
Marc:Has she since met her?
Guest:No, she never did.
Marc:Well, that's interesting to me, because my brother has three adopted kids.
Marc:We'll get back to the show in a minute.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Marc:As an adopted person, I mean, do you know your backstory?
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I have, my mom wrote down,
Guest:basically on a little yellow sheet of paper, they're notes, you know, that things that she shared knew of them.
Guest:And it was, from what I understand, it was just, I think, I think he was in the military.
Guest:She, I don't know if she shared with him that I, she had a child.
Guest:I don't know if that's true or not, but there was, it was definitely, I think she, I think it was, she was the daughter of a minister.
Guest:And they were very young.
Guest:These are like the pieces I sort of recall.
Marc:The daughter of a minister got pregnant by a guy in the military, out of wedlock.
Guest:Yes, and definitely young.
Guest:And that's pretty much the nuts and bolts of it.
Marc:So you don't know where your mother got you?
Guest:Well, I was definitely born in Charlotte, so it was, and she was in Charlotte.
Guest:At an agency there?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I was born there, and that's where I was adopted.
Marc:And they had already adopted your sister?
Guest:My sister, three years earlier, they had adopted her and then adopted me.
Marc:How old were you when they got you?
Guest:An infant.
Marc:Isn't that, it's fascinating.
Marc:It's fascinating.
Guest:And I think I always knew.
Guest:I think they were very upfront with me as soon as I could understand.
Marc:You always knew you were adopted.
Guest:Yeah, I still own the book.
Guest:There's a book called The Chosen Baby, which I still have literally at home.
Guest:It's like an old ratty edition.
Guest:But it's like a book.
Guest:It's basically what you would imagine that little children's book is about.
Guest:Here's the instructions for being adopted.
Guest:Yes, it's like.
Guest:Here's what you are.
Guest:Deal with it.
Guest:It's really a harsh book.
Guest:It just says someone gave you up.
Guest:I didn't care for your face.
Guest:Mommy didn't love you.
Guest:Yeah, your mom and dad were like, not as attractive as I wanted him to be.
Guest:They put you in a basket and set you down a river.
Guest:And luckily this old fisherman happened about.
Guest:And then sold you.
Guest:And sold you to your parents.
Guest:And strangely, that book works for every single child who's adopted.
Guest:They haven't even rewritten it.
Guest:Well, hey, if it works, why fix it?
Guest:Why fix it?
Guest:No, it was like an old book, but you get the idea of what the book would be about.
Marc:Sure, but my brother adopted three kids.
Marc:All of them literally went to the hospital, met the parents.
Marc:Some of them met the parents before.
Guest:Were they all the same parents?
Marc:No.
Marc:There are three different situations where he basically, almost all of them met the mother at least while they were pregnant and had these conversations.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And to me, it's fascinating because all these kids know and they can have access to this information if they want it.
Marc:They're not holding it back.
Marc:But as far as I know, none of them have really, their oldest is 14.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I just wonder, that was never this driving thing in your head like, I got to-
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm sure some people do that.
Guest:I've heard that more often women will go in search of that, at least information, because they want to have children later.
Marc:Oh, so they want to know, like, what am I going to be dropping out of me?
Guest:What will I drop out of me?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What genetic disaster is waiting to happen?
Guest:Where am I from and what possibilities of somebody who has A or two or five eyes?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And why did my parents throw me away?
Marc:Is that a problem?
Marc:Is that a problem?
Guest:Will I be more likely to put the baby in the basket?
Guest:So the old fisherman grips, you know, the classic story.
Guest:But it was, I have never felt that desire.
Guest:Not that I don't think I ever would, you know, curiosity.
Guest:I don't know if I have a need to meet them, but I feel like most...
Guest:More often than not, they tell you that the situation that you have found yourself in as being adopted is going to always be better.
Guest:In other words, I think most people go and search, and I think you're going to be, for the most part, let down.
Guest:Unless it was circus people and you really wanted to be there.
Guest:And you had kids of your own.
Marc:And you're like, look, a new grandma who is also a clown.
Guest:Yeah, also a clown.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:What a world.
Marc:No, but it's just a very strange thing happened in my life around this.
Marc:I had an ex-girlfriend who had a sister.
Marc:Sister was tragically murdered.
Marc:Then the mother, after that happened, all of a sudden told the woman I know, my ex-girlfriend, that she has a brother that she didn't know about, that she had put up for adoption, went and found this guy, and now they have a relationship with this half-brother.
Marc:And to me, that's just mind-blowing.
Guest:That's mind-blowing, yeah.
Marc:And I guess that, you know, if the curiosity isn't there, and obviously it would be disappointing, only in the sense that, you know, the best that could happen is you have an emotional connection, and then they explain to you what the situation was.
Guest:Yeah, that would be the best case scenario, and, you know, wherever that might happen, some, you know, sizzler on the side of the freeway or wherever you are.
Guest:At the trailer.
Guest:At the trailer.
Guest:Or the other, you know, you find out, you know, they have other children in the family.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they kept the other ones.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:So there's a lot of reasons not to, but I would think that that would make, let's bring it all the way back around to the pilot.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, so we did that pilot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Back to adopted.
Guest:So we did a pilot based on the idea of what would happen if you didn't know.
Guest:So our sort of lead did not know.
Guest:He was adopted.
Guest:The mother kept it a secret basically because she did have a sort of miracle baby later because she didn't think she could have children.
Guest:And she just thought it would be better to raise them in her mind as equal.
Guest:So it was a choice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so this mother shows up and obviously it was sort of what I thought was a fun comedy about two moms and this guy deciding he wants to bring them into his life, you know, type thing.
Marc:So the mother who put it up for adoption to begin with shows up.
Guest:Yeah, so we had Christine Baranski and Bernadette Peters play the two moms.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, it was an amazing experience, and we were very green, I think Nat and I. It's definitely one of those things you look back and go, oh, if I could just do it again, knowing now.
Marc:You probably could if you wanted to, no?
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's another weird thing about television is somehow if it's touched or tainted- But what if you walk in with your Oscar and just- Maybe I need to do.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I don't know if you know me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Maybe this will get us on the air.
Marc:Do you have the statue at home?
Guest:Do I?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it's at home.
Guest:Where do you put it?
Guest:It's just sitting on a little bookcase in the hallway.
Marc:Do you look at it and go, that's a fucking...
Guest:I definitely, I passed by it, you know, and remind myself that I gotta keep working, you know.
Marc:So, okay, so you wrote that, so you guys established the writing, you did the pilot, and you've written together since.
Guest:And we've written together ever since, and so we did the same sort of thing, and then we moved on to that, and we wrote our first sort of screenplay.
Marc:Original screenplay?
Guest:Original screenplay called The
Guest:at that time was called The Way Back and now it's called The Way Way Back because there's already been a movie called The Way Back and actually direct it up in Boston or outside of Boston.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You got some money?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We went that whole, you know, we had tried for many, many years to get this made way before Descendants even happened.
Guest:How long ago did you write the movie?
Guest:Oh, this was, this would have been, it's been a six-year journey probably to get this movie made.
Guest:I mean, it's a small movie and it was,
Guest:We thought it was going to get made.
Guest:It's the same thing.
Guest:It's up and down.
Guest:But around the time when everything sort of just hit the skids, you know, they weren't, you know, movies, the economy, they weren't making, you know, they were making much less movies.
Guest:It started there.
Guest:And so it was hard to make this small movie without, you know, you always need a piece that makes it enticing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when we got it back, because it was connected to studios and all that kind of stuff, and you have to wait a certain amount of time and shake off all these people's hands.
Guest:And so once all the hands were off of it and it was back in our hands, we just went more grassroots and made it happen a little bit differently.
Guest:Yeah, we're shooting this summer.
Guest:We have, it's a great cast.
Guest:We have Steve Carell, Toni Collette.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Allison Janney and Sam Rockwell.
Guest:It's huge.
Guest:And it looks like as of today.
Guest:Yeah, Maya Rudolph.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, and Maria Bello.
Guest:So it's like a lot of great people.
Marc:Did you find that all of these people were easier to get now in a way?
Guest:Well, I, you know, I don't know.
Guest:It's like I wouldn't say that that the, you know, the the road that we took with the descendants would did not help, you know, and certainly to be first time directors.
Guest:I mean, I think that's will.
Guest:I'm having a panic attack every day.
Marc:It's a reasonably budgeted film and people are working for scale.
Guest:Yes, it's a small budget.
Guest:Yes, it is.
Guest:It is everyone working for much, much, much less for a very small movie.
Guest:Well, that's great.
Guest:Which is going to be awesome.
Guest:And so very excited.
Marc:Now, why did you pick The Descendants?
Marc:How did your choice of that book and did you buy the rights?
Guest:No, we, the script, the way back, sort of made its way around town when we first wrote it.
Guest:And that got us into some meetings, one of which was with Alexander Payne and his producing partner, Jim Burke.
Guest:They have a company called Ad Hominem.
Guest:And they had optioned, they actually auctioned The Descendants.
Guest:So they were looking for writers for it.
Guest:So we went in and met, sort of pitched out our thoughts on the book, which we loved.
Guest:And we had not done an adaptation before, so it was definitely sort of a scary and trial by fire.
Guest:And that road was about a two-plus year road, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, because we started writing the first draft, and then the strike happened.
Guest:I don't know what year that was, when it was like a 100-day strike for the Writers Guild.
Guest:Oh, I see.
Guest:Yeah, I was in the middle of writing something too, and everybody just had to stop.
Guest:It just stopped.
Guest:Yeah, so everything halted, and so we had already turned in the first draft right before the cutoff to lay down your pens, and so then we couldn't really get notes or talk about it, so we spent the 100 days picketing, and then we got our notes, and so that's why it sort of delayed, and then we went into the second draft after that.
Guest:Which draft was shot?
Guest:Well, it was then we worked with Stephen Frears was going to direct for a little bit.
Guest:And so then we went to New York and met with him and sort of started to like.
Marc:Still for ad hominem.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Started because at the time Alexander wasn't planning to direct this.
Guest:And so Stephen Frears for a little bit entertained with it, did some tweaks with him.
Guest:And then we sat and I think even Jason Reitman talked about it for a little bit.
Guest:And then.
Guest:uh alexander decided to direct it and then we met with him and went over all the stuff and he sort of asked us you know why we did things why we didn't you know we went back in the book and then and our job was already done so then he took his you know it was now his and he he took his past and so sort of the conglomeration of all that became how much of your movie is up there
Guest:Well, I mean, I think it is... He definitely had an effect on the script because it's... Because it's an adaptation, the story's not going to change.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I think we all were working from the same thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we're all faithful to the book.
Guest:I think one of the big things... We focused a lot on the younger daughter, Scotty, because in the book, she's sort of a little bit more integral.
Guest:I mean, it's comic relief, but also there's this whole tie-in with the book that she was making, taking pictures of her mom who was in a coma...
Guest:So we focused a lot of her, and he sort of pulled back on that, which is basically taking this scene and replacing this scene with this scene to focus it more on, obviously, Matt King, George's character, and his eldest daughter.
Guest:So it definitely transformed, and he obviously added all the voiceover, which was...
Guest:Not something we had.
Guest:We did a pass with some voiceover, but not to the extent that he had.
Marc:Was the experience working with him... Did you feel like you were working for him?
Marc:Or did you feel like you were working together?
Guest:No, we were certainly working for him up until he decided to be a director, for sure.
Guest:But even then, it really was... We talked about everything, and then he went off and did his process to sort of wrap his brain around what he was... And you were cool with everything?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, at that point, you know, we contractually, we were done.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There was nothing that they had no, you know, we didn't have to be there, you know, in other words, and they didn't, you know.
Guest:So it sort of became the director getting ready to prepare to shoot a movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we didn't like sit down and have, you know, our screens and we're laughing and hugging each other and writing great lines together.
Guest:No.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But when, like, I've met him, and my feelings just initially of Alexander Payne was, like, you know, he's a very brilliant, difficult person.
Guest:Yes, he... Well, he's very... He's a particular brilliant person, for sure.
Guest:I mean, he's very...
Guest:He's very intelligent and he picks his words very wisely.
Guest:I think whenever we were on panels, I think he was sort of thrown by, you know, Nat and I are just actors and improvisers and performers.
Guest:But he is, you know, he is meticulous and uses, you know, $100 words or words that are more valuable than $100.
Guest:And and he has a very specific vision.
Guest:You know, I think his crew, he uses the same crew and they all know he always knows what he wants, you know, from what I gather from them.
Guest:And it was it was cool to watch him work.
Guest:That's for sure.
Marc:And when you won the Oscar, did you feel like he felt like you, like, oh, what are these guys doing up here?
Guest:I think he, oh, you mean during that moment?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You mean during the bits?
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You did the Angelina's leg thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But that was just fun.
Guest:But it was just for fun.
Marc:In general, do you think he would have liked to have just take like I guess what I'm getting at is that, you know, I don't know if people or maybe even I, you know, know exactly the process of that.
Marc:But, you know, you guys wrote your draft.
Marc:You know, he wrote his draft.
Marc:You guys were all writers, but you didn't work together necessarily.
Marc:No.
Marc:And then you're all up there winning an Oscar.
Marc:Now, I have to assume that the guy that contracted you to write that and then wrote his own draft and directed the movie would have rather been up there himself.
Guest:I would imagine he probably did want to be by himself.
Marc:But you didn't feel that.
Guest:I didn't feel that.
Guest:I felt pretty included as far as like during that whole process.
Guest:I mean, that particular night we had, when we were at the, I think it was the Writers Guild or Independent Spirit Awards, we had sort of spoken first and he said, you guys speak here and then I'll cover our angle if we go up for Oscars.
Guest:So he took the...
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So he's diplomatic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like this one doesn't really matter that much.
Marc:But if we get the big one, I'm talking.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You guys do your bits here.
Guest:And then I'll do my bits there.
Guest:Because he really, I know he wanted to work out because he obviously has been up there before for Sideways.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think he really wanted to say something in particular to his mother.
Guest:So he was working those things out, which is why I think he was a little unnerved during that thing, worried about the clock.
Guest:Right.
Marc:When you were getting laughs, you mean?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:I suspect that if the clock had run out and he not gotten to his mom portion, I would not be sitting here talking to you today because I'd probably...
Guest:You would have paid for that joke.
Marc:I would have paid for that.
Marc:You would have had your Angelina Jolie legs broken.
Marc:Yes, right, yes.
Marc:Now, didn't that start some sort of massive trend?
Guest:I don't think I started it.
Guest:I didn't realize how much it had already been before that had even happened because it was red carpet stuff.
Guest:You were there.
Guest:And I wasn't even... So I think when people have said it, they go, oh, yeah, man.
Guest:I was like, I don't really know what we're talking about because in my mind, I didn't think that was what I was doing.
Guest:I thought...
Guest:It really was, I know we can't speak.
Guest:How do I show pride and being proud of this moment?
Guest:And I thought she was sticking it with her leg and her dress.
Guest:So I said, oh, that seems like a good way.
Guest:It wasn't like that was in my head.
Guest:Like, oh, man.
Marc:Everyone needs to laugh that night, too.
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:Well, it's different when you're there because you have a different context because your eyes are wide and you're watching everything.
Guest:Oh, you're thrilled.
Guest:But it's a tough room, right?
Guest:It's an interesting room because it's a lot smaller than you think on TV.
Guest:It probably looks huge, but that theater in particular seems sort of small and high.
Guest:It just goes straight up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was more comforted because there was a lot of random people that...
Guest:I had gone through the groundlings with it to happen to be there that night.
Guest:It was just a weird sort of kismet sort of collection of people that just randomly our paths started similar time, you know, from Melissa and McCarthy and, you know, Kristen Wiig was there.
Marc:They were all Groundlings when you were there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Melissa, I came in right before Melissa.
Guest:I actually directed Melissa and the Sunday Company and directed Kristen Wiig and her main show that she got taken out of to go to Center Live.
Guest:So all of our paths were there at the same decade for sure.
Marc:It's almost like a reunion almost.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Almost like we've arrived.
Guest:The whole night.
Guest:Yeah, the whole night was just sort of what are we doing here?
Marc:So it was fun.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it was a blast.
Guest:Yeah, the whole night.
Marc:Well, good luck with the new movie.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:Do you feel good about what we did here?
Guest:I feel great about what we did.
Guest:I wasn't thrown by the facts.
Guest:I hope it comes through.
Marc:We covered the Hill People, Bank of America.
Marc:We hit the triangle.
Guest:We got real with adoption.
Guest:We really layered in there.
Guest:We did an after school special, basically, about adoption and being chosen.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah, we got that in, right?
Marc:It was almost like, hey, this is too light.
Marc:Boom.
Marc:We're in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:We had to really get that message across.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The more you know.
Guest:But honestly, you want to meet your real mom, right?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I wish I could give you that sort of Jerry Springer moment.
Guest:No, we don't have them.
Guest:Occasionally we have them.
Guest:Wait, who's coming in the door right now?
Guest:It's your mom.
Guest:Hey, it's me.
Guest:Wait, I think I just did your voice.
Guest:That's why you knew the voice, because it's been in your head, your natural head.
Guest:You knew me all along.
Marc:Do you want to meet your six brothers?
Guest:Oh, please.
Guest:Hey, man.
Guest:Man, look at you.
Guest:We're going to call you Peanut.
Guest:Oh, my God, I was talking about Peanut.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Because it's come full circle.
Guest:This whole discussion's full circle.
Guest:They'll be at the Oscars with you next year.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Thanks, Jim.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:You bet.
Guest:All right.
Marc:that's it that's our show pretty interesting i didn't know a lot of that stuff about the writing business and about the south you know jim rash very funny guy what else okay regular stuff uh wtfpod.com for all of your wtf pod needs pick in a few shekels buy some merch new posters up there get the coop t-shirt check out the episodes what do you got what can you get
Marc:Get the app.
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Marc:How would that be?
Marc:I have to go inside.
Marc:And my girlfriend did not have a good day at work.
Marc:She's very stressed out.
Marc:And there's part of me that does not want to go inside.
Marc:But I can't sleep out here.