Episode 309 - Todd Snider / Aaron Freeman

Episode 309 • Released August 29, 2012 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuckineers?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucktons?

00:00:15Marc:More will be revealed.

00:00:18Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:19Marc:I am Marc Maron.

00:00:20Marc:Thank you for joining me.

00:00:21Marc:It's a big show today.

00:00:23Marc:We're doing a doubleheader.

00:00:25Marc:I don't think we've ever really done a doubleheader.

00:00:27Marc:Not in my recollection.

00:00:29Marc:How's there been one?

00:00:30Marc:Well, early on we did some shows with a couple of people on them.

00:00:34Marc:But today, two massive talents...

00:00:38Marc:Very different talents, musical talents, which is always an interesting area for me to get into.

00:00:45Marc:Todd Snyder, the singer-songwriter, is on the show today.

00:00:49Marc:Now, this is interesting because this is one of those situations where I was not really familiar with Todd Snyder until a couple of you guys said, you got to get Todd Snyder on.

00:00:58Marc:And then I went and listened to this guy, and I was like, whoa, this guy, he's the real deal.

00:01:04Marc:A very specific type of song craftsman.

00:01:07Marc:Almost a satirical troubadour.

00:01:09Marc:Dude with a slightly sardonic sense of humor and an acute poetic eye for the human.

00:01:17Marc:Like John Prine.

00:01:19Marc:And I tracked him down when he was here and he came in here in the morning.

00:01:23Marc:Always an interesting and rare thing.

00:01:27Marc:that a musician or anybody comes over here at 10 in the morning, but Snyder came over here at 10 in the morning.

00:01:33Marc:I was like, wow, man, you're a grown-up with this stuff.

00:01:37Marc:You're up and at it.

00:01:39Marc:So we coffeed up and did the thing.

00:01:42Marc:And then the second part of this episode is Aaron Freeman, formerly of the band Ween.

00:01:51Marc:Another guy that I look, obviously, I knew who wean was, but I didn't know everything by wean.

00:01:59Marc:And I felt a little intimidated by that.

00:02:02Marc:And that conversation turned out to be great because sometimes, you know, when I don't know a lot about somebody, it's better because then I actually have to get to know them.

00:02:14Marc:Pow!

00:02:15Marc:Look out!

00:02:16Marc:I just shit my pants.

00:02:17Marc:JustCoffee.coop, available at WTFPod.com.

00:02:20Marc:If you get the WTF blend, I get a little back-end deal on that.

00:02:26Marc:Okay, so let me set the scene as I already did.

00:02:29Marc:It's morning.

00:02:31Marc:It's around 10 in the morning on a Sunday.

00:02:33Marc:And Todd Snyder shows up as a musician.

00:02:39Marc:He is a musician.

00:02:40Marc:I was surprised.

00:02:41Marc:Brought a dude with him.

00:02:43Marc:Sat in here.

00:02:43Marc:We had coffee.

00:02:44Marc:And we had this conversation.

00:02:46Marc:What is the difference?

00:02:47Marc:I mean, when you play the style of harp that you do on the songs, what would you call that?

00:02:53Marc:It's not a blues harp.

00:02:54Marc:It's kind of like a fun harp.

00:02:55Guest:Yeah, they call it straight, you know, or you can call it Neil Young.

00:02:59Guest:Neil Young.

00:03:00Guest:If you're in A, you get an A harp and you start off blowing.

00:03:04Guest:Yeah.

00:03:04Guest:And that's to play white guy harp.

00:03:06Guest:Okay.

00:03:07Guest:And then black guy harp, you start off, if you're in A, you get a D harp and start off sucking.

00:03:12Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:03:13Marc:And then you've got to figure out how to bend that thing.

00:03:15Marc:Yeah.

00:03:16Marc:The moment you figure out how to bend a note, you're like, oh, shit, yeah, man.

00:03:20Guest:Done, yeah.

00:03:20Guest:Right?

00:03:21Guest:And then you can play.

00:03:22Marc:It's true, right?

00:03:23Marc:Yeah.

00:03:24Marc:That's a big moment, too.

00:03:25Marc:It's like learning how to fucking juggle.

00:03:26Guest:So you got it.

00:03:27Guest:You've done it.

00:03:28Marc:Hey, look, man, I still have some part of my brain, having never played in a band before in my life, still thinks at 48 that that's going to be my next thing.

00:03:38Guest:Nice.

00:03:38Marc:No, because it's ridiculous, Todd.

00:03:41Marc:So...

00:03:44Marc:What the world needs now is another bunch of 48 dudes.

00:03:47Marc:I don't even know if I would have been a folk singer.

00:03:49Marc:Sadly, I probably would have started a rock band at 48.

00:03:52Guest:Yeah, the world could use that.

00:03:55Guest:Another 48.

00:03:55Guest:What's the problem with doing it at the bar down the street?

00:03:58Marc:There's nothing.

00:03:59Guest:That's what I like.

00:03:59Guest:I have a side band where I just play, because I try to play lead.

00:04:03Marc:Yeah.

00:04:03Guest:And I got a band called the Bulldogs where I just play lead.

00:04:06Guest:I'm terrible.

00:04:07Guest:I'm terrible at it.

00:04:09Marc:So that's a band where you're kind of like, don't tell too many people.

00:04:13Marc:I'm just trying to have fun and figure something out here.

00:04:16Guest:Yeah.

00:04:16Guest:And we play like Louie Louie and Tutti Frutti.

00:04:18Guest:Do you really?

00:04:19Marc:Yeah.

00:04:19Marc:So you do like classic old guy oldies.

00:04:21Marc:Yeah, that's right.

00:04:21Marc:Not even cool oldies.

00:04:23Marc:No.

00:04:24Marc:Just like the three-chord oldies.

00:04:25Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:04:27Guest:We're called Elmo Buzz and the East Side Bulldogs.

00:04:29Guest:Oh, boy.

00:04:30Guest:We have a sax guy and everything.

00:04:32Marc:Well, Todd Snyder's in the garage.

00:04:35Marc:You got some crew here.

00:04:36Marc:Killer garage.

00:04:37Marc:Thank you.

00:04:37Marc:What do these guys do?

00:04:38Guest:Road manager?

00:04:39Guest:Elvis and Brian fucking leech off me and fucking put me down.

00:04:43Guest:Yeah?

00:04:43Guest:Especially the Elvis one.

00:04:45Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:04:46Guest:Yeah, I come off the show.

00:04:47Guest:What's their jobs?

00:04:48Guest:Hey, what the fuck do you guys do?

00:04:51Guest:I do everything.

00:04:52Guest:You do everything?

00:04:53Guest:Everything.

00:04:54Guest:That's what he said.

00:04:54Marc:Well, you know what the important thing is?

00:04:55Marc:They're laughing, and that's got to be right up there on the top of their resume.

00:04:59Marc:They will laugh at you.

00:05:00Guest:I think that's about the height of it.

00:05:02Guest:Roll joints and laugh at my jokes.

00:05:04Marc:That's very important.

00:05:05Guest:You've got to have those guys.

00:05:07Guest:You've earned those guys.

00:05:11Marc:When you're in the business for a while and you've got guys to roll joints in Lafayette, you've made it.

00:05:15Guest:Yeah, that's right.

00:05:16Marc:Then it's just a matter of how many of those guys you have.

00:05:18Guest:How big is that thing going to be?

00:05:20Guest:We're looking to add a guy.

00:05:22Guest:We're really smoking a lot of weed these days.

00:05:25Guest:They can't do it fast enough.

00:05:27Marc:You need a few guys.

00:05:28Marc:But then you got to wonder, like, hey, wait, I'm not smoking as much of my weed as I thought it was.

00:05:32Marc:Why are there nine guys and I'm out of weed?

00:05:34Guest:Yeah, I'm running out of weed pretty quick.

00:05:36Guest:Yeah, then there's a problem.

00:05:37Marc:So were you guys just played last night?

00:05:39Marc:I think that's... We did, man.

00:05:40Guest:We played the Elray last night.

00:05:41Marc:I wish I would have come, but I was stuck on a film set doing a very small part in a silly movie.

00:05:46Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:05:47Guest:I always wanted to try that, man.

00:05:48Marc:I think your time is coming.

00:05:50Guest:Why am I not acting?

00:05:51Marc:Have you tried?

00:05:52Guest:Yeah, I didn't do very good.

00:05:53Marc:What do you mean?

00:05:54Marc:You auditioned?

00:05:54Guest:I didn't know what to do with my hands.

00:05:57Marc:That's always a problem.

00:05:58Marc:When you don't have a guitar or a mic, it's like, yeah, here we go.

00:06:02Guest:They wanted me to play a 40-year-old folk singer stoner, and I couldn't even nail that.

00:06:06Guest:That's a stretch, man.

00:06:08Guest:So maybe that's not going to be my thing.

00:06:10Guest:For a movie?

00:06:10Guest:Yeah.

00:06:11Marc:First of all, I've got to say thank you for doing that.

00:06:14Marc:Oh, yeah, man.

00:06:14Marc:Because I got up, I got in late, and I was tired.

00:06:17Marc:And I'm just a few years older than you.

00:06:20Marc:And I had that moment where I'm like, there's no fucking way these rock guys.

00:06:24Guest:Oh, we were out till 2.30 or something, too.

00:06:27Marc:But 2.30 is not all night.

00:06:28Marc:No.

00:06:29Marc:You seem to talk a lot about weed, not the white powders or any of the dangerous shit.

00:06:33Guest:I've done some of it, but it's not my thing.

00:06:36Marc:Well, you're lucky.

00:06:37Guest:Yeah, I never acquired a... The desire.

00:06:40Guest:That's never something to me.

00:06:41Guest:Anytime I ever did blow, I sure didn't want to do it yesterday.

00:06:45Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:06:45Guest:As soon as I smoked weed, I want to smoke more.

00:06:48Marc:Yeah, I used to smoke a lot of weed myself.

00:06:50Guest:I could see myself trying to stop one of these days, but...

00:06:54Marc:But I'm happy you came.

00:06:55Marc:How'd the show go last night?

00:06:56Guest:It was great.

00:06:56Guest:We had a good time.

00:06:57Guest:A bunch of famous people came.

00:06:59Guest:Steven Tyler was there.

00:07:00Guest:Wow.

00:07:02Guest:I didn't get to meet anybody.

00:07:03Marc:What do you mean?

00:07:05Guest:They didn't come backstage?

00:07:06Guest:No, no, no.

00:07:07Guest:Who else was there?

00:07:08Guest:Johnny Depp was there.

00:07:10Marc:Depp made the trip from France to see you.

00:07:12Guest:Yeah.

00:07:12Guest:He's got to be a huge fan.

00:07:15Guest:You didn't meet him either?

00:07:17Guest:And Natalie Portman.

00:07:18Guest:Natalie fucking Portman.

00:07:19Guest:The only one I met was Johnny Depp.

00:07:21Guest:So again, these guys, their job is sort of, they might have made that up.

00:07:24Guest:I got to visit with Johnny Depp, who I think was an interesting guy.

00:07:27Marc:Oh, you did hang out with him?

00:07:28Marc:Sure, a little bit, yeah.

00:07:29Marc:Could you figure out what his accent was?

00:07:30Marc:Yeah, he's got one of those weird accents where it's like, did you make that one up?

00:07:33Guest:Yeah.

00:07:34Guest:i've got a lot of friends that do that you do yeah and my friends i'm from oregon and my friends think i'm putting on a southern thing which i don't think i am you know but but maybe you know a little i i copied jerry jeff walker so that's interesting out of all the people in the world uh jerry jeff walker he had a big influence on you oh yeah he's my man isn't that interesting like i just when i was like 19 i decided i'm gonna be jerry jeff walker

00:07:59Marc:But I like I remember I grew up in New Mexico.

00:08:02Marc:So Jerry Jeff was, you know, up against the wall redneck mothers.

00:08:05Guest:Right.

00:08:06Guest:Yeah.

00:08:06Marc:And there's a couple other hits, but I don't know.

00:08:08Marc:I think I might have even seen him when I was in high school.

00:08:10Marc:Yeah.

00:08:11Marc:But I mean, I don't register him as one of my dudes.

00:08:13Marc:And I've actually never heard anybody register him as like that guy changed my life.

00:08:17Guest:Yeah.

00:08:17Marc:Jeff Walker.

00:08:18Guest:He changed the mind.

00:08:19Guest:How does that happen?

00:08:20Guest:One night.

00:08:20Guest:You know, he wrote Bojangles is his main thing he wrote.

00:08:24Guest:Bojangles is his main thing?

00:08:25Guest:He wrote, yeah.

00:08:25Guest:Mr. Bojangles.

00:08:27Guest:I was 19, and I had moved from Oregon to Santa Rosa and then to Texas.

00:08:32Guest:And at the time, my family, we didn't have money, and I couldn't go to college.

00:08:38Guest:So you'd be like a freeloader with whatever group I'd fall in with.

00:08:42Guest:I'd be a busboy at the restaurant and live on someone's sofa.

00:08:45Guest:I've been doing that for two or three years.

00:08:48Guest:How old were you?

00:08:49Guest:18.

00:08:50Guest:Okay.

00:08:50Guest:And it started maybe when I was 16 or 17.

00:08:53Guest:Right.

00:08:54Guest:I think I left home when I was a junior in high school.

00:08:56Guest:So I was a freeloader.

00:08:57Marc:Did you split like angrily?

00:08:59Guest:Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.

00:09:01Guest:Really?

00:09:01Guest:Yeah.

00:09:02Guest:I'm done with you, Dad.

00:09:03Guest:Yeah, fuck it.

00:09:04Guest:They were Republican jockey.

00:09:05Guest:I come from Republican jock, scoreboard, USA champs.

00:09:10Marc:Wait, do you have jock siblings?

00:09:11Guest:Yeah.

00:09:12Guest:Yeah.

00:09:12Guest:Oh, man.

00:09:12Guest:I still don't hang out with any of them.

00:09:15Guest:They're like George Bush, and I don't get it.

00:09:18Guest:I never did get it.

00:09:19Guest:What was the old man's business?

00:09:21Guest:He was a bit of a grifter, which made it weird because he did construction stuff.

00:09:31Guest:interesting cat though yeah good cat do you know you talk to him now no he's passed away i'm sorry a long time ago 15 years he did he only made 54 but you made some peace you made some peace yeah yeah after after you ran away yeah he uh he always thought the band thing was ridiculous and then i got a record deal uh the very year he got sick and he came to a show and he was uh he said something like well i get it that's work you're working

00:09:58Marc:and i thought yeah what the fuck do you think i've been doing he just thought you're trying to get laid and putting off getting a job right but it's interesting because i had that thing with my dad too where they think it's some sort of phase or some sort of bullshit but you know when you're a musician or even like doing what i do at stand up or doing this podcast i work my ass off and you realize that and then all of a sudden you got to be grateful to your old man because my old man was a workaholic yeah and that's right

00:10:20Marc:you know if i there's very little things they instilled in me but it seems like a work ethic was one yeah just because he was never home i'm like well that's what i want to be yeah the dad that's never home yeah but i got no kids yeah i didn't do it either i didn't have kids no me and my wife didn't want to how long you've been married about 12 years that's good yeah and you're not gonna do it no all right well let's get back to 19 so here you are you were in santa rosa

00:10:43Guest:No, by this time I was in a town called San Marcos, Texas.

00:10:47Guest:And I was living on this, I wanted to, I was working, I decided that I could maybe be a lyricist in a band.

00:10:53Guest:That was my vision.

00:10:54Marc:A lyricist.

00:10:55Guest:Yeah.

00:10:55Guest:Or, you know, maybe the singer or the guy who made up the words, because I knew the dad had a guy like that.

00:11:00Marc:Right, yeah, Hunter.

00:11:02Marc:Yeah.

00:11:02Marc:You just picture the guy that just drove in the bus with a pad.

00:11:06Guest:I think I got one.

00:11:07Guest:Strawberry roses.

00:11:10Guest:Knock this out.

00:11:12Guest:That looked like a cool way to live.

00:11:13Guest:Yeah, I'm taking a break.

00:11:15Guest:and then i saw i went to a buddy of mine played me some jerry jeff and i thought it sounded cool uh and and then i went to this place called green hall and he played by himself with just a guitar and i saw it and i thought that's it i'm gonna do that and i went the very next day and i got uh

00:11:32Guest:i got a guitar and just started following him around what kind of guitar it was a tacomini that was your first guitar yeah they're not bad that wasn't bad yeah that's good working man's yeah i played it for years and uh and then i just started doing that singing by myself and i think it was because he was singing about being a freeloader and he was putting the spin on it that it was some free spirit that was the first time i'd ever seen anybody work that grift

00:11:56Marc:i'm not i'm not uh crazy i'm eccentric or i'm not broke i'm free all that kind of right right so there's a there's a pride to it there's a choice i'm making yeah and there was no like uh a lot of the more you know some singer song or especially country ones when you have that disposition there's always a woman throwing you out or you lose one you're on your way to another one and there's problems

00:12:17Guest:Yeah, that.

00:12:19Guest:And I identified.

00:12:20Guest:I thought, well, this helps me put a spin on my own life.

00:12:22Guest:I just thought, I'm a guitar away from... From that.

00:12:25Guest:From that.

00:12:26Marc:From me and Jerry Jeff Walker playing alone towards the end of his career.

00:12:30Marc:He plays still.

00:12:30Guest:He was my age then.

00:12:32Guest:Right.

00:12:32Guest:He was about 45.

00:12:33Marc:But the arc had happened, right?

00:12:34Marc:Yeah.

00:12:35Marc:And he was just touring by himself.

00:12:36Marc:Yeah.

00:12:37Marc:Because it's weird.

00:12:37Marc:I've noticed that once a dude that had a band starts touring alone, you're trimming things up a little bit.

00:12:42Guest:That means they're starting to try to save some dough.

00:12:44Guest:I started doing that at like 30.

00:12:47Guest:well so you were following him around does that mean you were like the kid who was like jerry jeff walker would be like what are you doing here kid he he doesn't remember but i i went i was always in the front row he's he's he he tells me that uh well then i met him i opened for him in memphis before i even made a record and he recognized me from the front row of his last two or three memphis shows yeah and he was like i i know you and i'm like i'm right sitting right in front of you every time you fucking show up

00:13:15Guest:and then uh and then we've become friends we've even had fights man really yeah i love the guy man so you've had a relationship with this guy for over 20 years yeah he's my like a dad to me we just went to santa fe together uh not long ago and it was fucking cool we we closed this bar down and when we started walking back to the hotel nobody's on the street nobody and like around the corner you can hear a banjo

00:13:40Guest:Going ding, digga, dingga, dingga, dingga, dingga.

00:13:43Guest:And I said, man, is somebody playing Bojangles?

00:13:46Guest:And we walked around the corner and some old street dude for no one is singing Bojangles.

00:13:50Guest:Got a hat out.

00:13:51Guest:No one's on the street.

00:13:52Marc:Coincidentally?

00:13:52Marc:Coincidentally.

00:13:53Guest:Come on.

00:13:54Guest:No, I can't.

00:13:54Guest:I couldn't believe it.

00:13:56Guest:And we were like, we got to go over there.

00:13:57Guest:So we walk over there and I'm thinking...

00:13:59Guest:i gotta tell this guy that this and then i thought no i want to sit here and see if jerry jeff says who he is yeah he didn't i think he cried even a little bit he's 70 something and i could just tell he was moved as shit that this was how oh it's so lucky that neither one of you said anything because yes because it was a 50 50 chance that the dude would be like jerry jeff who yeah like didn't even yeah that would have ruined it

00:14:20Guest:And so we sat there and we listened to him.

00:14:22Guest:And when it got over, Jerry Jeff went, wow, it was great, son.

00:14:25Guest:That was great.

00:14:25Guest:And put a few bucks in his thing and we walked on back to the hotel.

00:14:28Marc:That's amazing that there are dudes that write that one tune.

00:14:33Marc:I didn't know he wrote that song, but I know that fucking song.

00:14:36Marc:And Up Against the Wall was such an anthem when I was in junior high.

00:14:39Marc:And it was not necessarily, in my mind, those weren't the best kids who were...

00:14:43Marc:They might kick your ass.

00:14:46Guest:See, I grew up in Oregon, so I didn't know anything about that outlaw shit till about 83 or 84.

00:14:54Marc:What part of Oregon?

00:14:56Marc:Beaverton.

00:14:57Marc:I'm not sure where that is.

00:14:58Guest:That'd be like a suburb of Portland.

00:14:59Marc:So you grew up there.

00:15:01Marc:You were like 18.

00:15:01Guest:16.

00:15:02Guest:When I was 16, my family moved to Houston.

00:15:05Guest:And then my dad had to go back to Oregon for something.

00:15:10Guest:And I rode with him.

00:15:11Guest:And when I got out of the car, I was like, you fucked up.

00:15:14Guest:And I'm like, not getting back in the car.

00:15:16Guest:And I went over to my buddy Mike Sadie's house.

00:15:19Guest:And I told his mom, I'm living here now.

00:15:21Marc:You could have to, if you want.

00:15:23Marc:What do you mean?

00:15:24Marc:How does a dad fuck up that bad on a car ride?

00:15:26Marc:I understand that it's very easy.

00:15:28Guest:Yeah, no, I had to plan the whole time.

00:15:30Guest:I just thought you shouldn't have drove me all the way out here because you could have kept me in Houston.

00:15:34Guest:But now I'm back in Beaverton.

00:15:36Guest:I was about to be a junior.

00:15:37Guest:And he was like, come on, we got to leave.

00:15:40Guest:And I was like, fuck that.

00:15:41Marc:I'm going to live with my friends.

00:15:43Guest:Yeah, he never could find me again.

00:15:45Marc:Oh, really?

00:15:45Guest:For how many years?

00:15:46Guest:Well, never went home.

00:15:48Marc:That was it.

00:15:49Marc:How did your friend's family feel about putting you up?

00:15:51Guest:Would you believe my grades went up when I left home?

00:15:56Guest:And I just started bouncing around.

00:15:57Guest:I had about three friends whose parents would let me crash.

00:16:00Guest:One in particular, but then some other people would take me on the weekends to give them a break.

00:16:06Marc:Yeah.

00:16:07Marc:Well, it's kind of funny how that works when you're actually probably fucking up in school just to piss your parents off.

00:16:12Marc:You know you're smart, but you don't want to give it to them.

00:16:15Guest:Yeah, that's sort of what I think, too.

00:16:16Guest:I was like, yeah, that's right.

00:16:19Marc:I'm smart, but you guys don't deserve it.

00:16:21Marc:You deserve to be aggravated and disappointed.

00:16:26Guest:My family, they were fucking, well, they didn't, you know, like I'd get shitty grades and they didn't give it.

00:16:30Guest:They didn't care.

00:16:31Marc:So how did you end up in the music business?

00:16:33Guest:So from Beaverton, I was going to try to go to junior college and went to Santa Rosa.

00:16:38Guest:I kind of did the same thing where I got there and didn't end up going to the junior college, but just hung around that, around the junior college.

00:16:44Marc:I can't even, that's like, there's nothing there.

00:16:46Marc:I'm thinking Santa Jose.

00:16:47Marc:Where's Santa Rosa?

00:16:47Guest:Santa Rosa.

00:16:48Guest:It's like right next to San Francisco.

00:16:49Guest:Right, right, right.

00:16:50Guest:Just up above it, I believe, yeah.

00:16:52Marc:Right, right.

00:16:53Marc:There's not much there.

00:16:54Guest:Malls, right?

00:16:54Guest:Yeah, malls.

00:16:55Marc:Strip malls.

00:16:56Marc:But San Francisco's cool.

00:16:57Guest:Yeah, I went there once.

00:16:58Guest:We went down there.

00:16:59Guest:And I was only there in Santa Rosa for about six months.

00:17:01Guest:Then I moved to Austin, got a job as a bus boy.

00:17:04Guest:Austin's good.

00:17:05Guest:Yeah.

00:17:06Guest:And then when you get there, you know, in Oregon- So you were chasing music by then?

00:17:11Guest:No, not yet.

00:17:11Guest:You just went to Austin?

00:17:12Guest:Austin.

00:17:13Guest:Well, I thought I could be a lyricist, I should say.

00:17:15Guest:Right, right.

00:17:16Guest:But that was really a pipe dream.

00:17:17Guest:And in Oregon, people think that's Mars.

00:17:19Guest:Then you get to Texas and lots of people are in bands and singing bars.

00:17:23Guest:In Austin, yeah.

00:17:24Guest:Yeah, and it doesn't seem like this crazy thing.

00:17:26Guest:One of the things about seeing Jerry Jeff was there was 500 people there.

00:17:30Guest:It wasn't an arena.

00:17:31Guest:I was like, there's a bar.

00:17:32Guest:He's having a blast.

00:17:33Guest:This doesn't seem impossible.

00:17:35Marc:And that must have on some level been like, this is enough people.

00:17:37Guest:Yeah.

00:17:38Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:17:38Guest:I remember one time I was playing.

00:17:40Guest:I went to see this band play.

00:17:42Guest:I was about 18.

00:17:43Guest:And there was like two people waiting to see them.

00:17:45Guest:And they were leaning against a van smoking a cigarette.

00:17:48Guest:And I remember being 19 going, that would be such a great life.

00:17:51Guest:Yeah.

00:17:52Guest:Just to be alone on stage.

00:17:53Guest:Yeah.

00:17:54Guest:On a night that was promoted.

00:17:55Guest:Yeah.

00:17:56Guest:Yeah.

00:17:57Guest:I don't know why that looked romantic.

00:17:59Guest:It still looks romantic to me.

00:18:01Marc:I've talked about the... Smoking a cigarette, like, even when you work at a restaurant, I mean, some of the best moments I had were after, like, a breakfast shift, and you're just covered in grease, and you're out there.

00:18:10Marc:Yeah.

00:18:11Marc:Just smoking, talk to the other grill guy.

00:18:13Guest:Yeah.

00:18:13Guest:That's a good time.

00:18:14Guest:That's a good time.

00:18:15Guest:Yeah.

00:18:15Guest:some of the best cigarettes that's right some of the best cigarettes yes do you smoke them not anymore i had to quit i had to give up between pot and cigarettes when i went on the road and that's when you keep doing it right that's when the pot uptake goes high yeah i've done that one where i'm like i'm not gonna smoke cigarettes anymore and then it's like how much am i spending on weed yeah that's what i do still and what day is it yeah oh man did i play

00:18:40Guest:I feel like I've been on the road for a thousand.

00:18:42Guest:I've been just traveling and just smoking.

00:18:44Guest:Playing my shows.

00:18:46Guest:Oh, sorry, Mom.

00:18:48Guest:So she's still around?

00:18:50Guest:Yeah, she lives in Port Orford, Oregon.

00:18:52Guest:And she's into you?

00:18:53Guest:No.

00:18:55Guest:Drives her nuts.

00:18:56Guest:It's an embarrassment.

00:18:57Guest:Really?

00:18:57Guest:It drives her crazy.

00:18:58Guest:Your whole thing.

00:18:59Guest:How many times have I mentioned weed in this moment?

00:19:02Marc:Oh, so just the weed thing, but what about the musician thing?

00:19:05Guest:Oh, Democrat thing.

00:19:06Guest:Democrat thing is bad.

00:19:07Marc:Now, wait, do they got money?

00:19:08Marc:Why are they Republicans without money?

00:19:10Marc:No, they don't have money.

00:19:10Marc:I'll never get that.

00:19:11Guest:There you go.

00:19:12Guest:I don't understand that one.

00:19:13Guest:Welcome to Thanksgiving at my house.

00:19:16Guest:I hate it out there.

00:19:17Guest:I don't go to the suburbs.

00:19:18Guest:I've managed to not.

00:19:19Guest:I don't go to the suburbs.

00:19:21Guest:Haven't been since I ran away.

00:19:22Guest:Not even when you.

00:19:23Guest:That's where people get beat up, if you ask me.

00:19:25Marc:yep not even when you tour you don't end up I always play on hippie street you know or we call it something to do street you know you've traveled every town's got that little street yeah and they all compare it to bigger cities oh you're from New York we have this block here this is like a bookstore and a coffee shop and a guy talking to himself hey you at home and I'm like no it's nothing like me isn't that the truth this is like a big city isn't it I don't know I don't know

00:19:55Guest:all the weirdos are down there yeah yeah three of them yeah and then we know one kid with blue hair yeah standing there just looking like he's gonna get his ass kicked they don't know real weirdos that's what i saw yeah that is true every so that's usually the street that we play we always play on liberal street and so i never have to you know there's been a cause one member some guy waited in line to punch me one time

00:20:17Marc:Oh, really?

00:20:17Marc:Over which song?

00:20:19Guest:He never said.

00:20:20Guest:He just did what he wanted to do.

00:20:22Guest:Did he punch you?

00:20:23Guest:Yeah.

00:20:24Guest:Waited in line.

00:20:26Guest:With the other fans?

00:20:26Guest:Yeah.

00:20:27Guest:So you're signing shit?

00:20:28Guest:Yeah, thank you.

00:20:29Guest:Thank you.

00:20:29Guest:Hi, how you doing?

00:20:30Guest:Oh, great.

00:20:30Guest:Thanks.

00:20:31Guest:Boom.

00:20:31Guest:Thank you.

00:20:31Guest:Hi.

00:20:32Guest:Oh, really?

00:20:33Marc:Oh, wow.

00:20:34Marc:And did he just do it, or did he tell you he was going to do it?

00:20:37Marc:Just did it.

00:20:38Marc:And walked away.

00:20:39Marc:That's got to be a Jesus thing.

00:20:40Guest:I loved it.

00:20:41Guest:And the band thought it was funny as hell.

00:20:43Marc:Do you do a Jesus song?

00:20:44Guest:Yeah, I think it was probably some kind of Jesus thing.

00:20:47Guest:Do you take them down a notch?

00:20:49Guest:Not too bad.

00:20:50Guest:Maybe a little.

00:20:51Guest:Yeah?

00:20:51Guest:Maybe a little.

00:20:52Guest:And Christians and some Republicans take shots at my shit.

00:20:56Marc:Yeah?

00:20:56Marc:Well, that's good.

00:20:57Marc:That's a good press.

00:20:58Marc:Why not?

00:20:58Marc:It seems like you have a certain following of fairly enlightened young people, but you also sing fun songs.

00:21:04Guest:Yeah.

00:21:04Marc:So I'm assuming that some of those people may just separate you from your politics and just enjoy what you do.

00:21:09Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:21:09Guest:I have a song from 2002 or something like that.

00:21:13Guest:That's Beer Run.

00:21:14Guest:B-double-E-double-R-U-N, beer run.

00:21:17Guest:And that's pretty much as deep as it gets.

00:21:20Marc:That's an anthem for the guys you hate.

00:21:23Guest:Yeah, it is.

00:21:25Guest:I didn't see that coming.

00:21:26Guest:I thought it was a simple little song about beer.

00:21:28Guest:And then all of a sudden I got some frat guys will come and then they get a little pissed off sometimes.

00:21:36Guest:But I just have to let them.

00:21:37Marc:That's got to be the greatest moment in the world.

00:21:39Guest:Yeah, I don't have to preach to the choir.

00:21:40Marc:that moment where frat guys just realize they're surrounded by different thinking people yeah like when they're the minority yeah and they just picked up on that one tune and they're just surrounded by your people yeah and everyone's loving it and they're just like what's happening is he saying what we think he hit you know so we do get that

00:21:57Marc:I saw that once when I went to, I was at a South by Southwest.

00:21:59Marc:I went to see the Hold Steady in some little tent.

00:22:01Marc:Yeah.

00:22:01Marc:And, you know, they talk about some pretty heavy shit, but not, it's pretty coded, but they're clearly not, you know, but I just saw frat dudes.

00:22:08Marc:Yeah.

00:22:08Marc:And I never understood how musicians really can balance that, but I think it must be the, like, you know that there are going to be people that you don't like.

00:22:16Guest:Yeah.

00:22:16Guest:I tried to get used to it.

00:22:18Guest:I even had a shrink talk about it one time, but that was years ago.

00:22:22Guest:Like, what am I going to do with these guys?

00:22:24Guest:They used to fucking beat the shit out of me.

00:22:27Guest:and now i you know they're like yeah they're shaking their fist yeah looks like they're gonna they're gonna beat me up if they don't uh but you know what i kind of weeded them out a little bit what did the shrink say uh what i fucking never listened he probably said well how does this make you feel yeah i think i just explained that okay i think we're out of time yeah i i don't know what made me try that try to talk about desperate right

00:22:50Marc:Well, I think usually people go to shrinks when they're doing exactly what they want to do, but they still feel like shit.

00:22:58Guest:Yeah.

00:22:58Guest:Catholic.

00:22:59Marc:Oh, you brought up Catholic?

00:23:00Guest:Yeah, I think I might have had to get out of that.

00:23:02Marc:Were you wired hard for that shit?

00:23:03Marc:Yeah, altar boy.

00:23:04Guest:I didn't get molested by a preacher.

00:23:06Guest:Oh, so you didn't really live the life.

00:23:07Guest:I didn't really live the thing.

00:23:08Guest:Yeah, I feel a little gypped.

00:23:10Guest:Yeah, you don't got that song.

00:23:11Guest:I thought I was a cute young kid, too.

00:23:13Guest:I was a handsome young fella.

00:23:15Guest:I still pissed at Father Ryan.

00:23:17Guest:Fuck him.

00:23:17Marc:Unfortunately, there's no Todd Snyder's song.

00:23:20Marc:Todd Snyder's song is like, hey, Padre, lay off.

00:23:25Guest:Hands off, Padre.

00:23:27Guest:No, I missed.

00:23:28Guest:I got screwed out of my romantic interlude.

00:23:31Marc:How many sibs you got?

00:23:33Marc:Two.

00:23:34Marc:So they all ended up on the Republican side?

00:23:35Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:23:36Marc:Are they older, younger?

00:23:37Marc:Older.

00:23:38Marc:Oh, really?

00:23:38Marc:So they're older people now.

00:23:39Guest:Yeah, and they have kids.

00:23:41Guest:So they're entrenched.

00:23:42Guest:Yeah, they live in the suburbs.

00:23:45Guest:I never really talk to them.

00:23:47Guest:Maybe if I do a show, they'll come around sometimes.

00:23:49Guest:It's odd, though.

00:23:50Guest:Does that hurt your feelings?

00:23:51Guest:Well, yeah.

00:23:52Marc:It's weird, because you think after a certain age, can't we put this shit aside?

00:23:55Guest:Yeah.

00:23:55Guest:Let me see.

00:23:56Guest:I think sometimes, too, I look back on when I first started making up songs, and I think if I had a delusional idea, I think I thought...

00:24:04Guest:If I made albums that said, this is dumb, my family would go, oh, you know what?

00:24:11Guest:You're right.

00:24:12Guest:And the magazine said you were right, too.

00:24:14Guest:So we're clearly wrong.

00:24:16Guest:I'm like, Mom, Rolling Stone agrees with me.

00:24:19Guest:And they didn't sway them at all.

00:24:22Guest:They're like, Rolling Stone, that hippie magazine?

00:24:24Guest:Yeah, fuck that.

00:24:25Guest:So I had to give that dream.

00:24:26Guest:That was probably the idea when I look back.

00:24:29Guest:Why did I do it?

00:24:30Guest:I think that was probably the idea.

00:24:31Guest:But I had to give up on that before I was even 30.

00:24:34Marc:But the Catholic thing, I mean, did you believe in hell when you were a kid and had that fear put in you?

00:24:38Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:24:39Guest:I still, I don't think you get to lose it.

00:24:42Marc:Really?

00:24:43Guest:Are you not Catholic?

00:24:44Marc:No, no, I'm a Jew.

00:24:45Guest:That's a good one.

00:24:46Guest:My wife's Jewish.

00:24:47Guest:She doesn't have any fear of going to hell.

00:24:49Marc:We were never promised heaven.

00:24:50Marc:So we're just sort of like, this is it.

00:24:52Marc:We better just do what we can.

00:24:53Marc:I don't even know what, honestly.

00:24:55Guest:I'm agnostic now, evangelically agnostic.

00:24:58Guest:I can't go with the whole atheist route.

00:24:59Guest:Why?

00:25:00Guest:I don't know what's going to happen when I die.

00:25:01Guest:Yeah.

00:25:02Guest:I don't know.

00:25:02Guest:I mean, I always think there's an answer.

00:25:05Guest:Why are we here?

00:25:07Guest:Where are we going?

00:25:08Guest:What are we supposed to do?

00:25:09Guest:I don't know.

00:25:09Guest:It's the answer.

00:25:10Guest:That's the answer to the question.

00:25:12Guest:There's a correct answer.

00:25:13Guest:I don't know.

00:25:13Marc:Well, I think the saddest thing might be that we've been planted with that question.

00:25:17Marc:We're the only animals that are sort of like, why should I eat today?

00:25:21Marc:You know, and now we got that thing just sitting in our heads and it would be sort of sad if it was just sort of most likely it's probably just nothing.

00:25:28Guest:What if it was just an ape ate, what is it, peyote?

00:25:32Marc:Yeah.

00:25:32Guest:An ape ate peyote.

00:25:33Marc:Yeah.

00:25:33Guest:And went, oh, shit.

00:25:35Marc:Oh, you mean like that's how we evolved this?

00:25:36Guest:Yeah.

00:25:37Guest:Like, I know how to make something.

00:25:38Marc:Yeah.

00:25:39Marc:And I'm going to die.

00:25:40Guest:Shit.

00:25:41Guest:Yeah.

00:25:41Guest:What happens to those things?

00:25:43Guest:That must have been weird.

00:25:45Guest:Yeah.

00:25:45Guest:In the dawn of time of stoner fabledom, that would be.

00:25:48Guest:I always thought, what would that be like?

00:25:50Guest:Those first groups like that.

00:25:51Guest:That guy's not moving anymore.

00:25:53Guest:What does that mean?

00:25:54Guest:Well, I used to just eat him.

00:25:56Guest:Yeah.

00:25:57Marc:No, we can't do that.

00:25:58Marc:I'm going to die.

00:26:00Guest:Fuck.

00:26:00Marc:That's the first psilocybin trip.

00:26:02Marc:I don't have pants on.

00:26:05Marc:Somebody write a book.

00:26:07Marc:Yeah.

00:26:08Marc:All right.

00:26:08Marc:So when did you start doing the thing?

00:26:10Guest:uh singing yeah right away in austin yeah i got a guitar the takamini uh-huh but that was so you saw jerry jeff that was in texas yeah right right i started following him around because he plays just three chord songs and so that that was a big i was also thought i could do that i could play like that i could that doesn't look like like jimmy hendrix and so i followed him around learned some basic chords and started making up songs and i was a busboy at this place called pepper's

00:26:34Guest:And there was a band playing.

00:26:36Guest:And somebody talked me into getting up and playing one of my songs.

00:26:39Guest:And I got up and sang.

00:26:41Guest:And then it went good.

00:26:43Guest:And the owner of the restaurant liked it that I did that.

00:26:46Guest:And he kept encouraging me to do it.

00:26:48Guest:And it only took like three months.

00:26:50Guest:And I only had two chord songs.

00:26:52Guest:But like three months after I bought a guitar, I wasn't being the busboy anymore.

00:26:56Guest:And I sang at this bar on Fridays and Saturdays.

00:26:58Marc:At Pepper's.

00:26:59Guest:Pepper's, yeah.

00:27:00Guest:Just made up my own songs.

00:27:01Guest:All of them?

00:27:01Guest:You didn't play any covers?

00:27:02Guest:I couldn't.

00:27:03Guest:Didn't know how.

00:27:03Guest:And a lot of them I was making up on the spot.

00:27:07Marc:Just riffing.

00:27:08Marc:Now were there people coming?

00:27:10Marc:Yeah, right off the bat it worked.

00:27:12Marc:Really?

00:27:13Marc:People were like, this guy's kind of funny.

00:27:14Guest:Yeah, I think that might have been it.

00:27:16Guest:I talked a lot.

00:27:17Guest:I didn't have a lot of songs, so I talked to cover time.

00:27:19Guest:All I could think of was I'm drinking free.

00:27:22Guest:I'm making as much as I was making as a busboy.

00:27:24Guest:I'm doing my poems that I like.

00:27:26Marc:Yeah, so you're writing poetry too.

00:27:27Guest:I always did that one.

00:27:28Guest:That was like when I was saying I wanted to be a lyricist in a band.

00:27:31Guest:I thought that I made up poems.

00:27:33Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:34Marc:Well, you do kind of.

00:27:35Marc:Yeah.

00:27:35Marc:So there was an element of, it's almost stand-up in a way, storytelling.

00:27:41Guest:A little bit.

00:27:41Marc:And would that just happen naturally?

00:27:43Marc:You didn't listen to, like, you know, Tom Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner or anything?

00:27:47Guest:Not until I was... By the time I heard that, I was a working guy.

00:27:50Guest:I had a record.

00:27:50Guest:But there was Arlo and... Oh, that's right.

00:27:52Marc:Now it's his restaurant.

00:27:53Guest:Ramblin' Jack Elliott.

00:27:55Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:27:55Guest:It was somebody you could study.

00:27:56Marc:And you listened to him?

00:27:57Guest:Yeah.

00:27:57Guest:And I knew that Jerry Jeff looked up to him.

00:27:59Guest:John Prine was the other guy.

00:28:00Marc:Well, Prine was like the guy, right?

00:28:02Marc:Yeah.

00:28:03Marc:And it seems to me that if I listen to where you're coming from, that sort of weird line of humor, heart, and saying something, Prine's that guy.

00:28:14Guest:Yeah, I think he's probably my favorite one with the words.

00:28:18Guest:I love Jerry Jeff, but he doesn't even make up all his own songs.

00:28:22Guest:John was another one that I just memorized all his stuff.

00:28:25Guest:There's four, Chris Kristofferson, Billy Joe Shaver, John Prine, and Jerry Jeff Walker are those guys I can beat them in trivia contests about themselves.

00:28:32Guest:And I could also play in their bands tonight.

00:28:34Guest:If they needed a guitar player, I could do it.

00:28:36Marc:And like with Prine, I mean... I've done a lot of touring with him.

00:28:40Marc:Really?

00:28:41Guest:And he took me under his wing for a big chunk of my life.

00:28:46Guest:Where was that?

00:28:47Guest:I still see him.

00:28:49Guest:It was in my 30s.

00:28:50Guest:I made like three records for him and he would come and help me and then take me on the road.

00:28:54Guest:I actually had a big, he helped me a lot.

00:28:56Guest:I had made three records already and we started being managed.

00:28:59Guest:He took me on tour and then we started being managed by the same person.

00:29:02Guest:And then I went to make a record and I gave him, I made a tape of these 13 songs that I had made up.

00:29:08Guest:And I said, John, will you check this out?

00:29:10Guest:And he called me back and said, I listened to your tape.

00:29:12Guest:And I said, what do you think of the songs?

00:29:14Guest:He said, I like one of them.

00:29:16Guest:And thus began this really hard process.

00:29:20Guest:But it was good for me.

00:29:21Marc:What'd you do with those other 12?

00:29:23Guest:Threw them out.

00:29:23Guest:Did you?

00:29:24Guest:Never looked back.

00:29:26Marc:So you'd already done two records?

00:29:28Guest:Yeah, three.

00:29:29Guest:And I had just been fired from MCA.

00:29:31Guest:Why were you fired?

00:29:32Guest:Told everyone to fuck off.

00:29:34Guest:Oh, that's a good moment.

00:29:34Guest:Good for you, man.

00:29:35Marc:Yeah, I just was not having it.

00:29:37Marc:You're living the life.

00:29:38Guest:Yeah.

00:29:38Guest:I played two songs and said, go fuck yourself.

00:29:41Marc:Because there were too much industry in the room?

00:29:43Guest:Yeah, and they were bugging me, and I was just tired of it.

00:29:46Marc:What were they bugging you with?

00:29:47Marc:Yeah, you got to sound the same all the time.

00:29:48Guest:Yeah.

00:29:49Marc:How come this one isn't as funny as the other one?

00:29:51Guest:Yeah, and they're all in the dressing room before the show, breathing down my face.

00:29:54Guest:And I just didn't think it was... I used to really not like L.A.

00:29:59Guest:And I like it a lot now.

00:30:00Guest:But at that time, it just felt really phony to me.

00:30:03Guest:And all the chicks seemed like they had fake tits and fake lips at the time the lip thing was just starting.

00:30:09Marc:Yeah, it still happens.

00:30:11Marc:But now you come out around here in Silver Lake.

00:30:13Marc:You're like, oh, they're doing better things with their lips.

00:30:17Marc:That's the weird thing is that, yeah, that thing started, but then they seem to have mastered the technology.

00:30:23Marc:And now you're like, did she do something with her lips?

00:30:24Marc:I don't fucking care.

00:30:26Marc:Yeah, isn't that weird?

00:30:27Marc:yeah but it's a weird thing when somebody like who has a sensibility that you do because i i had that as well when you're out there in the world doing your shit and la represents this weird mixture of opportunity and the enemy yeah that's what i felt like too it's weird though because as a responsible artist at some point you're sort of like well i'd like to make money at this yeah but but that's always you know that that that's secondary to like fuck them and they don't fucking understand what i'm doing

00:30:53Guest:you know i've come that was i think i was like 29 i'm 45 now and i i swear i hear people say all the time that the music business is full of these awful people and i really don't think it is you know i think that that's a like what you were just saying i think that was fear or something right well there you got to find the right people i mean there are shitty people in show business that'll sell you out yeah i mean that's really what it comes down to it's like we love what you do we got this money but could you do this and you're like i don't know if i could wear that yeah that's silly yeah

00:31:19Marc:That old Bill Hicks joke.

00:31:22Marc:What is it?

00:31:22Marc:Like, you know, yeah, do whatever you want.

00:31:23Marc:Just put this dress on.

00:31:24Marc:All right, there you go.

00:31:25Marc:Yeah.

00:31:27Guest:I only had that for one really brief period of my life.

00:31:29Guest:It was that record, that record, and I just was sick of it.

00:31:32Guest:I made one record in my life where- Which one?

00:31:34Guest:It was called Viva Satellite, and man, did it suck, and nobody liked it.

00:31:38Guest:It sounds like a Tom Petty outtakes.

00:31:40Marc:So was that what they were trying to do?

00:31:42Marc:Did you choose the band?

00:31:43Marc:Was it your guys?

00:31:44Guest:Yeah, it was my guys.

00:31:45Guest:And I was in charge.

00:31:46Guest:I don't know.

00:31:47Guest:Actually, I think I was just being... I don't know what the hell we were thinking.

00:31:51Marc:It must have been the production.

00:31:53Guest:Yeah, and everybody was really liking the idea that we were a rock band.

00:31:57Guest:It just got out of hand.

00:31:58Guest:I can't believe now when I listen to it that I couldn't hear what a...

00:32:01Guest:It just sounds like somebody's trying to be Tom Petty.

00:32:05Guest:Really?

00:32:05Guest:Yeah.

00:32:05Guest:It's not a terrible record.

00:32:07Guest:In fact, there's weird people that come up, especially in Texas, that are like, when are you going to start doing shit like that again?

00:32:12Guest:And I'm like, well, fuck.

00:32:14Guest:I took a beating for that.

00:32:15Guest:It was really, I thought, just a bland-ass record.

00:32:18Marc:So you really have to deal with that same struggle that Dylan had to deal with?

00:32:22Marc:Is that you got folkies or you got singer-songwriter fans who are like, oh, no.

00:32:26Marc:He rocked out.

00:32:27Marc:He overproduced.

00:32:28Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:32:29Guest:People that like me are generally mad at me.

00:32:31Guest:Wouldn't you agree?

00:32:32Guest:My crowd is mad at me.

00:32:33Marc:For one thing or the other?

00:32:34Guest:Always, yeah.

00:32:35Guest:fucking always i can't go out after it's an argument every time like about what anything really everything i can't stay out of a fucking argument but are they like why didn't you do this yeah when are you gonna do that really yeah when are you gonna do this again how come you don't try that that's the problem with lefties man in general i mean whether like there's something about like i did lefty talk radio for a year and a half you're never gonna fucking please us yeah that's i don't even try

00:32:59Guest:They're going to be like, well, that song is interesting, but I think you could have taken more of a risk.

00:33:03Guest:Yeah.

00:33:03Guest:Like, fuck you.

00:33:04Guest:What do you want me to do?

00:33:06Guest:Why do I have to provide this place for you to act intellectual?

00:33:09Marc:Because you're a singer-songwriter.

00:33:11Marc:You're a voice of a generation.

00:33:13Guest:Come on.

00:33:13Guest:I'm a drunk, first and foremost.

00:33:15Guest:Quit talking about weed.

00:33:17Guest:There's things to be done.

00:33:18Guest:Nope.

00:33:19Guest:Not going to do it.

00:33:20Guest:Not going to do it.

00:33:21Guest:Our motto is, who let you in?

00:33:23Yeah.

00:33:23Guest:Is that on the tour bus?

00:33:25Guest:Yeah.

00:33:26Guest:Who let you in tour?

00:33:28Guest:Yeah.

00:33:29Guest:Who let them in?

00:33:30Guest:So when did you move to Nashville?

00:33:32Guest:That would have been right after that record I was just talking about.

00:33:35Guest:The shitty record.

00:33:36Guest:Yeah.

00:33:36Guest:I ended up in rehab.

00:33:37Guest:I had to go twice that year.

00:33:39Marc:Booze?

00:33:40Guest:Morphine and booze.

00:33:41Guest:Morphine.

00:33:41Guest:Great combo.

00:33:42Marc:How were you getting morphine?

00:33:44Marc:Did you have the chronic back pain?

00:33:45Marc:Did you have a good doc?

00:33:46Marc:I just met this guy that was a druggie guy.

00:33:48Guest:The guy.

00:33:49Guest:I could get everything.

00:33:49Guest:Hey, get on the bus.

00:33:50Guest:Yeah, he was running a studio.

00:33:52Guest:I forget where.

00:33:53Marc:In Memphis.

00:33:54Marc:Now, I want to try to understand something because I don't know that I've ever understood it.

00:33:59Marc:Yeah.

00:33:59Marc:and i've been i've been around those guys i mean i hung out with kennison i you know i knew a lot of dudes i did my own share of drugs but there are these dudes that are literally like i can get you whatever you need and they might as well just say do you want to die because i can help you yeah yeah but but you know we're happy they're there yeah and they know that we should stop yeah and they're doing it and they're oh that's i guess that's the catch is that and they're they're they're close to a dude that they look up to and everything i actually had a drug dealer in la when i was 21 and i was living out here who said you got to leave

00:34:26Marc:I'm like, when the drug dealer tells you to go.

00:34:28Marc:You've stayed too long.

00:34:29Marc:Well, that's just about the nicest thing as they can say.

00:34:31Marc:I'm not going to give you anymore.

00:34:32Marc:Yeah.

00:34:33Marc:I just don't understand why those guys are there.

00:34:35Marc:Why do you think they're there?

00:34:36Marc:Because they're hurting us.

00:34:37Guest:Yeah.

00:34:37Marc:Right.

00:34:38Marc:And I don't know.

00:34:38Marc:They don't see that they're hurting themselves.

00:34:40Marc:So they think they're just having a party.

00:34:41Guest:Yeah, I think they think they're helping.

00:34:42Guest:Most venues have them.

00:34:44Guest:Yeah, still?

00:34:45Guest:Most, like, the El Rey wasn't their guy last night, if we'd have wanted it.

00:34:49Guest:He's being diplomatic.

00:34:51Marc:There might have been a guy.

00:34:52Marc:I don't know.

00:34:54Guest:Nobody's got to know nothing.

00:34:56Guest:Hey, a lot of things were said last night.

00:34:58Guest:A lot of things were said.

00:34:59Guest:Everybody was saying stuff.

00:35:01Guest:Who knows what's real and what isn't, you know?

00:35:05Marc:So you went into rehab and you got off the morphine?

00:35:08Marc:Yeah, I met my wife.

00:35:10Marc:In rehab?

00:35:10Marc:Yeah.

00:35:11Marc:Really?

00:35:11Marc:Yeah.

00:35:12Marc:That's a deep meeting there.

00:35:13Guest:Yeah, and you're not supposed to say who was in the rehabs with you, but you know who was in rehab with me?

00:35:18Guest:That fucking woman that shot Phil Hartman was in my little holder hand group.

00:35:23Guest:Oh, really?

00:35:23Guest:she wouldn't see she kept saying i have my boyfriend's face my husband's famous my husband nobody gave a shit everybody's off trying to get off everyone's like i'm shaking and sweating i don't give a fuck about your husband she i i don't know why but i had this weird feeling i was and then i'd been out of rehab for like two months i was on the road sitting in my hotel and the television said phil hartman died and i swear to god i thought that fucking that's gonna be that chick yeah and then her picture came on yeah on the thing i went that's that chick

00:35:51Guest:And I think she had told everybody that her husband, she kept saying his initials, so I think I had that, too.

00:35:57Guest:It's like, Phil Hartman.

00:35:58Guest:I went, Phil Hartman, PH.

00:35:59Guest:Oh, shit, that chick from rehab.

00:36:01Guest:She got him.

00:36:02Guest:And it was her.

00:36:03Guest:Where was this rehab?

00:36:04Guest:Sierra Tucson.

00:36:05Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:06Guest:In Arizona.

00:36:06Guest:Yep.

00:36:07Guest:And then I met my wife there, and we moved to... She was living in Manhattan, and I was living... By that time, I was living in a town called Fairview on a little farm.

00:36:15Guest:In Texas?

00:36:17Guest:Right outside of Nashville.

00:36:18Marc:So you'd already moved there?

00:36:20Guest:Yeah, I'd moved from Memphis.

00:36:21Marc:I don't understand.

00:36:22Marc:Why don't you explain to me the whole... I was in Nashville recently, and I've known guys that have gone there, but it's literally... I've had cab drivers give me tapes.

00:36:32Marc:Yeah, it's full.

00:36:34Marc:How does that work?

00:36:35Marc:How do you enter that world?

00:36:36Marc:Because I know what LA is.

00:36:37Marc:LA is like, I got a band, look, we got a sound, boom.

00:36:40Marc:But Nashville seems to be this other thing.

00:36:42Marc:It almost seems like anybody's got a shot there.

00:36:44Marc:Is that a miss?

00:36:45Guest:There's a lot of things you can do besides have a famous band.

00:36:49Guest:There's writing, you know?

00:36:51Guest:It's interesting.

00:36:52Guest:I didn't go until I already had made some records, and so I had some inns, and my manager was there.

00:36:58Guest:But I live in East Nashville, which is where you move when you first come.

00:37:02Guest:Right.

00:37:02Guest:In my hangout at my bar, most of the kids I drink beer with just got there, and they've got their tape, and they're trying...

00:37:09Guest:but they're like looking to write it they'll write a song for a popular artist or they'll try to do their own thing but most of the people are trying to land songs with country acts right yeah you know what i think the thing to do now is to to try your ass off to write a toby keith song but never admit that right and then you hit the bar you're like that's and when i do it it's gonna that's a common thing in nashville country music sucks

00:37:32Guest:it needs to change now i've got a cut and it's just the same as it's always been but my new attitude is it's changing yeah yeah i'm part it's real now well it's weird that like it seems like the big change that people claim ruined country music was more you know production and uh and and chord structure yeah that they were just sort of like well hell we can do billy joel yeah that's right and not the truth it's always like it's rock from 10 years ago

00:37:57Guest:Watch Here Comes Nirvana, I think.

00:37:59Guest:Nirvana is going to be the next big thing.

00:38:01Guest:In country?

00:38:01Guest:The broken down verse with the screaming chorus.

00:38:03Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:03Guest:It's got to be coming.

00:38:04Marc:Now, am I wrong in thinking that this new record, the Agnostic... Hymns and Stoner Fables.

00:38:10Marc:That that is a little more of a band sound, isn't it?

00:38:13Guest:Yeah, and it brought the band on the road this year.

00:38:15Guest:I told the band when we started, I wanted to copy the records with Desire by Dylan, Neil Young, Ragged Glory, Tonight's the Night, Lou Reed, New York, all them sloppy records.

00:38:29Guest:I was like, let's get drunk and make a sloppy record and not be on the radio.

00:38:33Guest:Yeah, you can definitely hear that.

00:38:36Guest:And I told him, I said, I want to sound like some gypsies, and I want to sound like black people.

00:38:41Guest:And gypsy people.

00:38:44Guest:Try not to sound white.

00:38:45Guest:And I didn't want anybody sober.

00:38:47Guest:Not that I think it makes it better, but I just think sometimes it's...

00:38:51Guest:You mean in the band?

00:38:52Guest:Yeah, we have this thing that we do 200 nights a year, and it always starts at 9 o'clock at night, and you've always had two glasses of wine before you do it.

00:39:00Guest:And then the idea that now that we're going to go do it for posterity, I'll meet you there at 8 in the morning and we'll have coffee.

00:39:05Guest:Why are you doing that?

00:39:07Guest:I like the idea of starting a session right around gig time.

00:39:09Marc:yeah you know you scheduled it that way yeah it's with your idea for the sound sake yeah yeah you don't want people going through the whole wave of a day yeah i didn't want any and have all these weird takes like the just waking up take the jammed on coffee take and then the take where they're tired of doing takes right yeah that's right we avoided all that we only have one the sloppy drunk one you want to do you want to do a song or two yeah sure off the new record

00:39:34Guest:Maybe I'll do the first one and the last one.

00:39:37Guest:The record starts with a song called In the Beginning.

00:39:40Guest:Okay.

00:39:40Guest:I'll go like this.

00:39:49Guest:In the beginning, man wondered to himself, Why?

00:39:53Guest:Oh, why are we here?

00:39:54Guest:And yet, with each asking of this question, the answer would become even less clear.

00:40:01Guest:Overwhelmed by fear, distraction took its place, and so it was in the world's first shelter that we began, the human race, the human race to fill up more and more empty space.

00:40:16Guest:Oh, how we love the human race.

00:40:22Guest:Until one day this one guy said to this other guy, he said, hey, you seen that guy over there?

00:40:28Guest:Seems like he's got more than everybody else that's got.

00:40:31Guest:To me, that don't seem fair.

00:40:34Guest:The second guy agreed with the first guy.

00:40:37Guest:Everybody else did too.

00:40:39Guest:They all got so worked up they figured they knew what they just had to do They would divide all of his things up among each other After they killed him of course For they could see no real good reason not to just take what they wanted by force But when they found him he said, hey wait a minute fella

00:41:01Guest:I wouldn't kill me just now.

00:41:04Guest:You could see that I've got more than you ever got.

00:41:06Guest:Wouldn't you first at least like to know how?

00:41:09Guest:And with that, he had their attention.

00:41:11Guest:And with that, they went all loud and clear.

00:41:15Guest:He said, you all know how long we have always wondered why.

00:41:19Guest:Oh, why are we here?

00:41:21Guest:Well, today I'm going to tell you all about it.

00:41:24Guest:I'm going to teach you about suffering and bliss.

00:41:27Guest:I'm going to teach y'all a little about heaven and hell and the God that gave me all this.

00:41:33Guest:God gave me all this because I'm humble.

00:41:37Guest:He could do the same for you too.

00:41:39Guest:But if you're seeking his love and affection, what you're doing is the last thing I do.

00:41:45Guest:You see, he sends killers to hellfire, both here and eternally.

00:41:51Guest:The good live forever in a beautiful heaven.

00:41:54Guest:God told me this personally.

00:41:57Guest:Who you gonna trust if you don't trust me?

00:42:35Guest:So unless you want suffering and heartache, unless you want struggle and fear, you better find some kind of way to humble yourself.

00:42:43Guest:May I suggest helping me clean up around here?

00:42:47Guest:Of course, I could pay you a little bit of money for it, but more importantly, God would see.

00:42:52Guest:He would see that you was working humbly for something and he might give you the things he's given me.

00:42:57Guest:Well, with that, they didn't know what to do.

00:43:01Guest:Nor could they prove what he said wasn't true.

00:43:03Guest:And since he had what everybody else thought they wanted, it seemed like the thing to do.

00:43:09Guest:And with that, we've rolled into the future.

00:43:12Guest:And ain't it a son of a bitch to think we would still need religion to keep the poor from killing the rich.

00:43:21Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

00:43:28Guest:Who you gonna trust if you can't trust me?

00:43:34Ooh.

00:43:42Ooh.

00:43:48Ooh.

00:43:55Marc:yeah something like that that's great thank you sounds good in here that uh so what kind of what do you usually play to how many uh how big is your your crew your your following oh the like the crowd anywhere from um you know we our biggest shows maybe get up around a thousand people and our smallest ones are about 200 people

00:44:19Marc:So that's great.

00:44:19Marc:So you've built a little thing for yourself.

00:44:22Guest:Yeah, it's a nice job.

00:44:22Guest:I'm getting older.

00:44:23Guest:The traveling is hard.

00:44:25Guest:I didn't foresee my body.

00:44:28Guest:When I took the job, I was like, I'll do this until I'm blue in the fucking face.

00:44:31Guest:But now it's a little... My back hurts.

00:44:33Marc:Because you're a road dog.

00:44:35Marc:I mean, it's not like you're like, okay, we're going to do 25 dates, all arenas.

00:44:39Marc:None of that.

00:44:41Guest:We don't stop.

00:44:42Guest:The tour doesn't stop.

00:44:43Guest:We don't...

00:44:44Guest:Now we put out a record and we'll go on tour.

00:44:46Guest:We put out records and we just tour, tour, tour.

00:44:49Guest:We have to.

00:44:49Marc:And what's your body doing?

00:44:50Marc:Let's compare notes.

00:44:52Guest:Huh?

00:44:52Guest:How are you breaking down?

00:44:53Guest:Kidneys.

00:44:54Guest:Really?

00:44:54Guest:Kidney stones, back issues, little bone issues in the back.

00:44:59Guest:What's the deal where the back starts to mess up the leg?

00:45:03Guest:They call it sciatica.

00:45:03Guest:Sciatica?

00:45:04Guest:Yeah, baby.

00:45:04Marc:From standing up so much?

00:45:06Marc:Yeah.

00:45:07Guest:Oh, fuck.

00:45:07Marc:Yeah.

00:45:08Marc:But how's your wife handling?

00:45:09Marc:You got no kids because you're not doing that.

00:45:11Guest:No kids.

00:45:12Marc:Didn't want to bring them into the road world?

00:45:14Guest:That's what I thought.

00:45:14Guest:We partied late into our lives.

00:45:17Guest:Me and my wife did.

00:45:18Guest:And we loved it.

00:45:19Guest:Loved every minute of it.

00:45:20Guest:Went to concerts until we were 40.

00:45:22Guest:And now you've retired from concerts?

00:45:24Guest:Yeah, we just sit around the house.

00:45:26Guest:I'm just glad there's not a mess.

00:45:27Marc:Well, that's the funny thing is you start going like, now, can you sit down at this place?

00:45:31Guest:Yeah.

00:45:31Guest:No?

00:45:32Guest:They're going on at 10.

00:45:33Guest:Yeah.

00:45:34Guest:My God, you know, yeah.

00:45:35Guest:Now I don't normally do anything.

00:45:37Guest:The only time I ever go out anymore is like in the morning.

00:45:39Guest:I'll go walk.

00:45:40Guest:If I'm going to go party, it's going to be on Sunday morning at a little bar down the street from my house.

00:45:45Guest:You got dogs?

00:45:47Guest:Yeah.

00:45:47Guest:I love them, man.

00:45:48Guest:What kind?

00:45:49Guest:I don't know.

00:45:50Guest:You know, they were rescued.

00:45:51Guest:Oh, just those kind?

00:45:52Guest:Yeah.

00:45:53Guest:Yeah.

00:45:53Guest:All right, man.

00:45:53Guest:So you want to do one more?

00:45:54Guest:Sure.

00:45:55Guest:All right.

00:45:55Guest:Thank you for having us over, man.

00:45:57Guest:Absolutely.

00:45:58Guest:And so that's the record.

00:45:59Guest:That song's called In the Beginning, and that's the first song.

00:46:01Guest:And then the record ends with a song called Big Finish that I'll try to do it on acoustic guitar.

00:46:06Guest:Speaking of Muddy Waters, man, this is direct.

00:46:11Guest:Take your time.

00:46:14Guest:Tell me slow.

00:46:18Guest:Should I stay?

00:46:26Guest:When we both know you thought you knew What I was just about to say But you didn't know And you always think you do I tell you I've been looking back over my shoulder It's not you that I've got to blame If I could do all this all over I wouldn't do nothing the same Seemed like the right thing At the time

00:46:59Guest:It seemed like the right thing at the time Oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh I try to remember It helps me to forget The older I get

00:47:33Guest:The older I get, the more I worry That the more I worry, the older I will get And yet I still worry Ain't that about a son of a bitch, I'll tell you Some people can't take no for an answer Some people can't even take yes for an answer Can't say for sure how I ended up here But if I had to guess, I guess I'd say some answer

00:48:05Guest:Seemed like the right thing at the time.

00:48:13Guest:It seemed like the right thing at the time.

00:48:33Guest:Trying to find Some kind of way to cope You've got to admit It ain't the despair that gets you It's the hole When I found myself in possession of these car keys

00:49:01Guest:I just naturally assumed that I could drive It seemed like the right thing at the time

00:49:23Guest:It seemed like the right thing at the time.

00:49:32Guest:Oh, oh, oh, oh.

00:49:41Oh, oh, oh.

00:49:47Oh, oh, oh.

00:50:02Guest:Nice.

00:50:04Marc:Thanks, Todd Snyder.

00:50:05Guest:Yeah, thank you for having me over.

00:50:10Marc:Sweet guy.

00:50:11Marc:Good sound.

00:50:12Marc:Definitely a great songwriter.

00:50:16Marc:Anyone who cites their heroes is Jerry Jeff Walker and John Prine's All Right in my book.

00:50:20Marc:Now we're going to go...

00:50:22Marc:to my talk with Aaron Freeman, Gene Ween, and look all you Ween heads.

00:50:29Marc:I'm not going to pretend.

00:50:31Marc:You know, I know Ween is like Zappa in the sense that either you know it all or you don't know enough.

00:50:38Marc:in the eyes of those who know it all.

00:50:41Marc:I came to this interview because I had an opportunity.

00:50:43Marc:I had a tremendous amount of respect for weaned, but I'm not deeply a weaned dude.

00:50:51Marc:I appreciate them, but I do not know everything they have ever done.

00:50:55Marc:And I'm straight up with that, with Aaron, Gene, Gene.

00:51:00Marc:And also, I want to make it known that we got this interview in the can before the disbanding of Ween.

00:51:06Marc:And I hope that doesn't.

00:51:07Marc:So that was not talked about.

00:51:09Marc:I did sense a little bit of tension when I brought it up, but it was not addressed.

00:51:14Marc:But nonetheless, I had a wonderful conversation with Aaron Freeman, a.k.a.

00:51:20Marc:Gene Ween.

00:51:22Marc:Let's go to that now.

00:51:28Marc:What name do you go by as a person?

00:51:31Guest:Aaron.

00:51:33Marc:You said that with a bit of an edge to it.

00:51:35Guest:Well, I've been having an identity crisis, so this whole thing is Aaron Freeman.

00:51:40Guest:Yeah?

00:51:40Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:51:41Marc:From here on out, you're Aaron Freeman.

00:51:42Guest:Yes, for sure.

00:51:43Marc:Well, that's interesting, the slight tinge of anger.

00:51:47Marc:Yes, right?

00:51:48Guest:With the Aaron Friedman?

00:51:50Marc:Uh-huh.

00:51:51Marc:Like you're carrying a little baggage behind the... You're carrying some Gene Wien baggage?

00:51:55Guest:I'm carrying some Gene Wien baggage, yes.

00:51:57Marc:I've been... Yeah, I've been... No, there's nothing wrong with Gene Wien, but yeah, I've been... But does this album, on some level, is this like, I'm here, I'm Aaron...

00:52:08Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:52:09Marc:Yeah?

00:52:09Marc:Yeah.

00:52:11Marc:I like the record.

00:52:12Marc:Thanks.

00:52:13Marc:And I have to be honest, from the outset, how old are you?

00:52:15Marc:You're a little younger than me?

00:52:16Marc:I just turned 42.

00:52:17Marc:So I'm 48.

00:52:18Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:52:19Marc:Did you think... You're all grown up and shit now.

00:52:22Guest:Yes.

00:52:22Marc:It's odd.

00:52:23Marc:I have to be straight up with you in that...

00:52:26Marc:it's impossible to cram on ween in the sense that like you know i there's no way that like as familiar as i am with a couple of your records when you look at the whole catalog it's like oh fuck i'm not going to be able to do this in two days yeah and uh so i i don't want to miss uh any opportunities to uh to talk about certain things i don't want to get a bunch of ween fans mad at me there's all right there's nothing wrong than nothing worse than angry ween fans no angry ween fans are tough

00:52:54Guest:What does wean attract?

00:52:57Guest:Oh, well, you know, wean fans are generally well behaved.

00:53:02Guest:I've found.

00:53:03Guest:Yeah.

00:53:04Guest:Um,

00:53:06Guest:The thing that gets me the most is in Ween, we always said to bring food to the shows.

00:53:12Guest:So we would get all kinds of crazy food.

00:53:15Guest:Now, of course, that leads to paranoia that all the food is spiked with something.

00:53:21Guest:Because at one point, I believe it was in Austria, back when we first started asking for food and we got this chicken and I swear it was spiked with male hormones or some sort of hormone thing.

00:53:33Guest:Really?

00:53:33Guest:Yeah.

00:53:34Marc:yeah yeah do you think why would somebody like do that though because i get a lot of food in my shows too now that people like to bake for me yes and there's always this fear that someone's going to do something with drugs because i don't do drugs anymore right and i don't know like why someone who would do that wouldn't be really a fan they'd be out to with you i mean hormones is sort of a vague and odd thing the hormone thing was weird and maybe it wasn't hormones but i like to say it was hormone well what were the same i don't know what hormones would do exactly

00:53:59Guest:did you grow another penis like yeah by the end of the show you're like i've got both extra penises exactly it was really intense but you know yeah we do we get we get spiked baked goods too you do because people think that we would enjoy that and i don't do drugs anymore either and it's uh so i have to watch out but our sound man eats them all and he's okay he's like willing to like i don't know what's in them yeah yeah

00:54:22Marc:Well, you did cultivate a kind of a trippy following.

00:54:25Marc:I know there was a lot of talk of drugs in a lot of the songs, but was that the life you were living?

00:54:34Guest:It was the life we were living for a while, yeah.

00:54:37Guest:I'd say for a bunch of records, it was the lifestyle.

00:54:42Guest:And I think this goes across the board with any musician.

00:54:47Guest:When you're actually recording the music and writing songs, you're not so high on whatever said substance.

00:54:56Guest:But yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on for sure.

00:55:00Marc:I watched some really old videos of you two.

00:55:04Marc:You looked like you were 15 or 16.

00:55:06Marc:It couldn't have been that.

00:55:07Marc:It was on some local TV show.

00:55:08Marc:You were doing the 76 song with the four track, and they were marveling at this setup.

00:55:15Marc:Oh, yeah, the Jane Pratt show.

00:55:17Marc:Right.

00:55:18Marc:What year was that?

00:55:19Marc:That was probably 93.

00:55:21Marc:And the big thing was like, look, it's a miracle.

00:55:24Marc:There's just two of them, and there's many instruments.

00:55:27Guest:I know.

00:55:28Guest:I know.

00:55:29Guest:And how old were you?

00:55:31Guest:Well, if it was 93, I was 23, right?

00:55:35Guest:So I was born in 1970, so it's pretty easy for me to do that, the math.

00:55:41Marc:When you guys started that, and we'll get to the solo stuff, but I want to make sure I cover my basis, because I kind of think it's sort of fascinating when a musical artist has a very specific following, a very loyal following, and then, I mean, do you even know how many records you have out, all said and done?

00:55:58Yeah.

00:55:58Guest:Well, something, no, like 11.

00:56:03Guest:Studio records.

00:56:04Guest:Yeah, I think it's 11, but don't quote me on that.

00:56:07Marc:But how many sort of demos and bootlegs and things that you are still in charge of?

00:56:13Guest:Yeah, that's the thing is we have a couple live records out.

00:56:18Guest:We have this thing called Shinola, which is- Like a greatest hits?

00:56:21Guest:Which is outtakes.

00:56:22Guest:Oh, it's all outtakes?

00:56:22Guest:We haven't done a greatest hits record yet.

00:56:24Guest:Would you know what those would be?

00:56:25Guest:No, no.

00:56:26Guest:And from what I gather, you don't get to pick them either, which is really cool.

00:56:30Guest:Because I would really be curious to know what some record label would pick.

00:56:35Marc:When you guys started, I mean, when you met him, your partner, the other ween.

00:56:40Guest:Yes.

00:56:40Guest:What's his real name?

00:56:42Guest:Mickey Melchiondo.

00:56:43Marc:Yes.

00:56:44Marc:You guys were in junior high?

00:56:45Guest:Yeah, we were in junior high, and we didn't like each other at all.

00:56:49Guest:It was one of those.

00:56:50Guest:Like, was there active?

00:56:51Marc:Bitter enemies.

00:56:52Marc:Active spite?

00:56:53Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:56:54Marc:But you were both, he must have been sort of nerdy, right?

00:56:56Guest:We were kind of nerdy.

00:56:57Guest:I think Mickey was grasping with being a jock,

00:57:00Guest:Oh, really?

00:57:01Guest:He was on the cusp?

00:57:02Guest:He was on the cusp, and I was pretty much the opposite of that, so I think I reminded him of all that he wanted to be but didn't want to be at the same time.

00:57:12Guest:Right.

00:57:13Guest:Was he a guitar player then, though?

00:57:15Guest:He was a thumb guitar player.

00:57:17Guest:He tuned the guitar to E. Oh, okay.

00:57:19Guest:So just played bars?

00:57:20Guest:You just go up and down.

00:57:21Guest:Right.

00:57:22Guest:And that's how we got together.

00:57:24Guest:We got together...

00:57:26Guest:I remember we exchanged records.

00:57:28Guest:He was really into the punk rock scene, and I was into the New Wave stuff.

00:57:32Guest:I was listening to Laurie Anderson and Devo.

00:57:35Guest:Sure.

00:57:36Guest:He was listening to the Dead Kennedys and stuff like that.

00:57:39Guest:So that was like, what, 84?

00:57:41Guest:84, 85.

00:57:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:45Marc:I remember that first Laurie Anderson record and the Devo records.

00:57:48Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:57:49Marc:And he was listening to who?

00:57:50Guest:And he was listening to stuff like the Dead Kennedys and Suicidal Tenants.

00:57:54Marc:That all sort of happened around the same time.

00:57:56Marc:I guess like that stuff, the punk stuff happened a little before maybe.

00:57:59Guest:It did.

00:57:59Guest:And then it carried over into the mid 80s.

00:58:01Guest:There was a real heavy punk scene then.

00:58:03Marc:But like it was when I was in high school and I mean, I graduated in 81.

00:58:08Marc:You know, punk had not integrated itself into the campus yet as an archetype.

00:58:13Marc:You know, there were.

00:58:13Marc:It was still freaks and jocks and then whatever minorities pared away and just did what their thing was.

00:58:21Marc:But by the time you were in high school, the punk was entrenched?

00:58:24Guest:It was, but it was still a scene.

00:58:26Guest:It was cool because you could actually get into that scene and be into that scene.

00:58:31Guest:That kind of stuff is dissolved nowadays.

00:58:33Guest:But, yeah, you know, there was the New Wave kids, punk rock kids.

00:58:39Marc:The only difference was a haircut and a skinny tie.

00:58:42Guest:Exactly.

00:58:43Guest:Exactly.

00:58:44Guest:And I had the trench coat and the skinny tie.

00:58:46Marc:And the buttons?

00:58:46Marc:Did you have buttons?

00:58:46Guest:I had the buttons, yeah.

00:58:48Guest:I had a yin and yang button.

00:58:49Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:58:50Guest:It was a mess.

00:58:52Guest:And...

00:58:53Marc:Yeah, that was I think that was a both.

00:58:55Marc:They were both sort of effective reactions to the end of disco.

00:59:00Marc:I mean, I think between punk and new wave that that was the the target was disco, right?

00:59:04Guest:Sure, sure.

00:59:04Marc:Let's let's put an end to this.

00:59:06Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:06Marc:But but new wave sort of had definitely had factions of pretty cheesy music.

00:59:11Marc:i loved it i loved it i mean you know i remember in in high school somebody some girl told me i looked like the guy from tears for fears so right that was pretty awesome that was great oh yeah i got i milked a lot out of that well you're like a a very melodic guy and you got an awesome voice and it seems to me that uh but not just new wave i mean even on the new album you seem to be uh you know pulling from some you know what i would think would be kind of cheesier pop influences yeah do you do that on purpose are you aware of it

00:59:40Guest:no it's what i grew up with uh on the radio yeah yeah i mean i listened to a lot of radio when i was growing up in the 70s right and uh it really affected me so i don't know if this goes across the board with musicians but you know i just really took it in and i i remember driving around in my mother's amc hornet in the 70s and listening to she listened to a lot of 70s soft rock right and um

01:00:05Guest:I remember getting really emotional about a lot of this stuff, you know, like the song Wildfire.

01:00:12Guest:Wow.

01:00:12Guest:Yeah, that song floored me and I was like eight years old.

01:00:16Guest:So, you know, that's the kind of freak I am, I guess.

01:00:19Marc:Like Baker Street?

01:00:20Guest:Yeah, Baker Street.

01:00:21Guest:And I still hear Baker Street and it freaks me out.

01:00:24Marc:The sax in that thing?

01:00:25Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:25Marc:It freaks me out, too.

01:00:27Marc:I know.

01:00:27Marc:I don't know why.

01:00:28Marc:Dreamweaver?

01:00:29Guest:Dreamweaver, yeah.

01:00:30Guest:Those songs, right?

01:00:31Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:31Marc:I mean, I'm a little older than you, but I think that I had the same reaction, but there was part of me that's like, I have to kill that.

01:00:39Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:40Marc:Why am I responding to this in this way?

01:00:42Marc:This is not rock and roll.

01:00:44Guest:Exactly, exactly.

01:00:45Guest:That song, if a word could say a thousand...

01:00:49Guest:With the stuff.

01:00:51Guest:That stuff really got me.

01:00:53Guest:So it's a part of my makeup.

01:00:55Guest:My musical makeup is definitely that.

01:00:57Guest:But you embraced it.

01:00:58Marc:You didn't assassinate it with rock.

01:01:01Guest:No, no, no.

01:01:02Guest:You're shamelessly proud of it.

01:01:04Guest:I absolutely am.

01:01:05Guest:And I think that's why people maybe gravitate towards Ween because you definitely have that aspect of it.

01:01:12Guest:And I've never been afraid to...

01:01:14Marc:to go there right no and you do it uh you know with an open heart but with it like i think a lot of people would think uh uh somewhat i think that ween could be interpreted as having a sardonic sense of humor if you listen to it in a different way i mean you're obviously embracing the form and you do it beautifully but then you've got you know some people are like well why are they doing it's got to be a joke

01:01:37Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:01:38Marc:It's a very well-articulated and sophisticated joke to the point where it's not funny.

01:01:43Guest:Right, right.

01:01:44Guest:I guess, I don't know what to make of that.

01:01:47Guest:It's not funny.

01:01:48Guest:And I always laugh because we like to... I like to laugh.

01:01:52Guest:I mean, humor is an important part of music.

01:01:55Guest:Sure.

01:01:55Guest:But people have always given Ween way too much credit for being...

01:02:00Guest:Satirists?

01:02:01Guest:These smart craftsmen, satirical.

01:02:04Guest:Yeah, and it's like we're not.

01:02:06Guest:I mean, it's really very simple.

01:02:08Marc:You love the music.

01:02:09Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:10Guest:I mean, honestly, I don't put that much thought when I'm writing a song at all.

01:02:15Guest:And I'd really just try to let it come from somewhere in my subconscious or unconscious.

01:02:21Guest:And that's the best kind of music.

01:02:22Guest:So never have I nor Mickey sat down and really tried to get people.

01:02:30Guest:How do we make fun of this?

01:02:32Guest:Right.

01:02:32Guest:But people have always thought that.

01:02:35Guest:Unless you're a real Ween fan, then you kind of get a different grasp of it.

01:02:40Guest:Where did you guys grow up again?

01:02:42Guest:Well, I grew up outside of Philadelphia.

01:02:44Marc:But it wasn't a small town?

01:02:47Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:48Guest:Well, that's where when I was actually when Mickey and I were both 13, we moved to New Hope in Pennsylvania.

01:02:55Guest:And that's where all that stuff is taken.

01:02:57Guest:And do you still live there?

01:02:59Guest:I live outside of New Hope, yeah.

01:03:01Guest:I might move to LA, actually, at some point.

01:03:03Guest:Really?

01:03:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:04Guest:What are you waiting for?

01:03:05Guest:We're working on it.

01:03:09Marc:What is it about New Hope, then?

01:03:10Marc:I don't know where it is, and I'm picturing it must be a fairly small town, right?

01:03:15Guest:yeah yeah it's a very quaint town it's um it's where washington crossed the delaware is the claim to fame and uh yeah it's it's very rustic and old school it's you know a lot of stone houses i grew up in a house that was built in 1740 oh really yeah big thick stone how big of a family do you come from uh just my sister and i

01:03:38Guest:Yeah?

01:03:38Guest:Yeah.

01:03:39Marc:And what were your folks like?

01:03:41Marc:What was your business?

01:03:42Guest:My father was, you know, hippie turned conservative.

01:03:47Guest:Oh, really?

01:03:48Guest:As most men of his age are.

01:03:51Marc:Went too far out and then got scared?

01:03:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:53Guest:So I have a picture of him on my wall of him at Woodstock wearing like candy stripe pants.

01:03:59Guest:But he was at Woodstock.

01:04:00Guest:With a big afro.

01:04:00Guest:Yeah?

01:04:01Guest:Hanging off the bleacher, the whatever, the rafters.

01:04:04Marc:Oh, so he was there?

01:04:05Marc:He was there.

01:04:06Guest:Yeah.

01:04:07Guest:And he so he he really had a big part.

01:04:09Guest:Both of my parents had a big part in my music.

01:04:12Guest:He he he had a great record collection, you know, from the late 60s, early 70s that I used to just eat up.

01:04:20Guest:Right.

01:04:21Guest:And then my mother was the easy listening soft rock 70s.

01:04:25Guest:woman but she also loved like earth wind and fire and stuff like that so that's where you get the the uh the sort of r b part yeah yeah yeah so i can really trace back a lot most of my musical influences to both of my parents but do you remember when your dad was still a hippie or was he already vaguely he he was he was a hippie for a little while he claims that he wasn't a hippie he was more of a um

01:04:50Guest:he wanted to get stuff done you know he was out to change an activist an activist thank you yes like you call me hippie gets really pissed oh really i was an activist i was trying to change philadelphia i was one of the real deal guys yeah he was the real deal according to him did he grow up in in pennsylvania yeah yeah really both of my parents are you know born and bred in philadelphia so we brought up the name religion or anything

01:05:12Guest:uh no no my mother's jewish yeah which makes me jewish right and uh so i'm actually getting back into that now really so the jew thing yeah the jew thing yeah your dad's not jewish he's half jewish half italian oh really yes so you got the best of everything yeah yeah so i'm a jew talion

01:05:30Marc:Yeah, I'm a Jew as well.

01:05:32Marc:And what does it look like to get back into it?

01:05:35Marc:Were you bar mitzvahed?

01:05:36Marc:Did you go through all that?

01:05:36Guest:No, I wasn't bar mitzvahed.

01:05:37Marc:So you didn't have it in your life?

01:05:38Guest:That's the first thing, no.

01:05:40Marc:So you're going to get bar mitzvahed?

01:05:41Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:05:42Guest:Absolutely.

01:05:43Guest:I'm working on it.

01:05:44Guest:I've been going to synagogues.

01:05:45Marc:Do you know any good bar mitzvah bands?

01:05:47Marc:Are you going to do your party?

01:05:49Marc:Yeah, that's a good one.

01:05:51Marc:Yeah.

01:05:51Guest:I haven't even thought of the party.

01:05:53Guest:Oh, my God.

01:05:54Marc:You should do like a classic sort of 13-year-old bar mitzvah party.

01:05:58Marc:Why don't you do a party and the theme is the year you would have been bar mitzvahed, which would have been 83.

01:06:03Guest:Yeah, that's a great idea.

01:06:05Guest:And you have to honor that.

01:06:06Guest:Yeah.

01:06:07Guest:Musically in every other way.

01:06:08Guest:That would be amazing.

01:06:09Guest:That's a great idea.

01:06:10Guest:I'm just logged for sure.

01:06:12Marc:Good, good.

01:06:13Marc:So you're actually studying for your bar mitzvah now?

01:06:15Guest:Yeah.

01:06:16Guest:Yeah, it just started.

01:06:17Guest:So it'll be a year, I'm sure.

01:06:20Marc:So you're learning how to read Hebrew and sing the song?

01:06:21Guest:Yeah.

01:06:22Marc:Are you working with a cantor?

01:06:24Guest:No, not yet.

01:06:25Guest:Not yet?

01:06:25Guest:Not yet.

01:06:25Marc:So what made you go back to it?

01:06:27Guest:What made me go back to Judaism?

01:06:28Guest:Or just start to explore it.

01:06:30Guest:I've always been...

01:06:32Guest:i've always just felt judaism in me right i guess yeah it's the word i guess you know felt the tribe yeah uh and i can feel it yeah i got a good sense of it yeah yeah that's what it is it's hard to describe you know and um uh also in the last few years in ween i would do this um sort of a canter like thing before the song called i can't put my finger on it and uh

01:06:58Guest:It really, it was just freestyle singing and it really would come naturally to me.

01:07:06Guest:So.

01:07:07Guest:Almost a chant.

01:07:08Guest:Yeah.

01:07:09Guest:Yeah.

01:07:09Guest:And so I'm kind of just speaking in tongues, but it's really neat.

01:07:13Guest:And I believe it's tied to my.

01:07:16Marc:dna somewhere sure and i wonder what that's going to activate yeah maybe maybe you could do a it's not i see you're the kind of person that i would think that it wouldn't be completely out of the picture for you to do a cantor record an actual record in hebrew i would love to i would love to so yeah i have to get legit first with it you know and i will definitely do something but are you studying hebrew just to sing it are you actually trying to learn that language because most of us just kind of

01:07:44Marc:yeah I'm learning enough to get bar mitzvahed basically right exactly yeah but the melodies are there you're gonna learn those melodies yeah yeah for sure what kind of synagogue do you go to is it conservative or the one I've been going to is a conservative yeah so the melodies are like they do that you go to the services and they they do the like you do yeah yeah I'm trying to follow along you know so yeah I can never you know I can follow along in Hebrew but I still don't know what it means in English right right right is that important that we know that

01:08:14Guest:Not really.

01:08:14Guest:I don't think so.

01:08:16Marc:Do you have kids?

01:08:17Guest:Yes.

01:08:17Marc:Are you going to make them Jewish?

01:08:19Guest:Yeah.

01:08:21Guest:Well, my first wife isn't Jewish.

01:08:23Guest:My second wife is.

01:08:24Guest:You're on the second one.

01:08:26Guest:What's that?

01:08:26Guest:You're on the second one?

01:08:27Guest:Yeah.

01:08:27Marc:I did.

01:08:28Marc:I had two.

01:08:28Marc:I have no kids.

01:08:29Guest:Yeah.

01:08:30Marc:It was that bad.

01:08:30Guest:Right.

01:08:33Guest:I hear you.

01:08:34Marc:So the second wife is Jewish?

01:08:35Guest:Yes.

01:08:36Marc:All right.

01:08:36Marc:Yes.

01:08:36Marc:Was that part of the change?

01:08:39Guest:That was kind of part of the change.

01:08:41Marc:Oh, my God.

01:08:42Marc:So is your mom still around?

01:08:43Guest:Yeah, my mom's still around.

01:08:45Guest:Both of my parents.

01:08:45Marc:Oh, really?

01:08:46Marc:Are they like, oh, look, he's marrying a Jewish person.

01:08:49Guest:Yes, yes, they liked it very much.

01:08:50Guest:Really?

01:08:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, sure.

01:08:51Marc:So that's hilarious.

01:08:54Marc:Do you remember your Jewish grandparents?

01:08:56Guest:Yeah, I actually still have my Jewish grandmother.

01:08:59Guest:Really?

01:09:00Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:01Guest:Wow.

01:09:01Marc:And she's great.

01:09:01Marc:She's great.

01:09:02Marc:She, you know, makes the brisket.

01:09:04Marc:Yeah, she does the whole thing?

01:09:05Marc:Yeah, sure.

01:09:06Marc:So now, in the history of Wien, was the original, were you living on a commune originally?

01:09:12Yeah.

01:09:12Guest:No.

01:09:12Guest:Well, it was sort of a commune house.

01:09:15Guest:It was this place called Brookridge Farms.

01:09:17Guest:And it was cool.

01:09:18Guest:There was a revolving door of freaks coming in and out.

01:09:22Guest:It was probably like five bedrooms.

01:09:25Marc:It was one of those places?

01:09:26Guest:I guess you could call it a commune.

01:09:27Guest:We didn't make our own soap or anything.

01:09:29Marc:There was no organization to the commune, but it was sort of an open door policy to people who needed to crash.

01:09:34Guest:Exactly.

01:09:35Guest:And it was fun.

01:09:36Guest:There was always a good party going on and band practices of all kinds.

01:09:40Marc:So there was just people who would pick up instruments and kind of roll with that.

01:09:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:45Guest:We made the living room into this just great jam room and it was just people would come.

01:09:50Marc:And what were the primary substances fueling everything?

01:09:53Guest:Oh, God.

01:09:56Guest:You know, probably a lot of mushrooms, alcohol, and weed, I would just say, at that point.

01:10:02Marc:So it never got powdery and evil?

01:10:04Guest:No, fortunately it didn't get too powdery and evil.

01:10:07Guest:We were all too broke for that.

01:10:09Marc:That's probably better off.

01:10:11Marc:Yeah.

01:10:11Marc:And nobody got too fucked up.

01:10:13Marc:I mean, for the long haul.

01:10:15Guest:Everybody survived for the most part.

01:10:17Guest:People came in damaged goods and left damaged goods.

01:10:19Guest:Right.

01:10:20Guest:I think everybody made it out okay.

01:10:22Marc:And you consciously sobered up?

01:10:23Yeah.

01:10:23Guest:i did yeah yeah like nothing anymore no i find that abstinence is the best yeah me too you can't once you get that once you get that frame of mind you have that switch there's nothing yeah yeah because you just can't because you know it's sort of like well that's just going to be a domino effect it really is you know and i've tried it so many times really the controls yeah you can't you can't smoke weed like a gentleman you can't

01:10:46Guest:I love when they say that.

01:10:49Guest:Go have a drink like a gentleman.

01:10:51Marc:What does that mean?

01:10:51Marc:Every day at a certain time?

01:10:53Marc:Exactly.

01:10:54Marc:You don't put a time frame on it?

01:10:56Guest:Yeah.

01:10:56Guest:So no, I can't drink like a gentleman under any circumstances.

01:10:59Marc:Now in terms of like, I re-listened to Pure Guava yesterday.

01:11:03Marc:Some of the music that you make is not easy to listen to.

01:11:07Guest:oh yeah yeah and do you know that yeah especially if you've been listening to pure guava yeah it's not easy to listen to and when you do i don't listen but but it was obviously some sort of psychedelic experiment

01:11:24Marc:There was.

01:11:25Marc:You were going for musical textures and you were trying to have an effect.

01:11:29Marc:Yeah.

01:11:30Marc:And when you look back at experimenting with psychedelic music, I mean, what was your agenda, really?

01:11:38Marc:In the sense of what were you trying to push for?

01:11:40Marc:What were you trying to get at?

01:11:41Guest:Yeah.

01:11:42Guest:Well, there never was an agenda.

01:11:45Guest:I can honestly say that.

01:11:46Marc:I mean, the only thing- Not even if it was to see if it would hold together?

01:11:49Marc:Yeah.

01:11:50Guest:no the way that ween worked yeah is we would just write a song do do whatever and never have any boundaries right and if it was good we'd use it if it wasn't we wouldn't and believe me there's a lot of stuff that you'll never hear um you sure now yeah well maybe someday uh it's very interesting when people get older they're like well fuck it

01:12:16Guest:Put it out.

01:12:16Guest:Yeah.

01:12:17Guest:Yeah.

01:12:17Guest:We were 15.

01:12:18Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:12:19Guest:But we were never perfectionists that way.

01:12:22Guest:I mean, especially if you're listening to pure guava, that's a real, that was some deep stuff at that point.

01:12:28Guest:Like in what way?

01:12:29Guest:That was deep into the, like, like come out of a two week mushroom haze and then record three songs.

01:12:35Guest:Yeah.

01:12:36Marc:So, um, so you're still like, so like all that weird, that the, the sort of the, the oral texture of it was definitely shroomy.

01:12:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:12:45Guest:A lot of shrooms on Pure Guava, I can honestly say.

01:12:47Guest:As soon as you say Pure Guava, I think of this.

01:12:50Marc:Do you get a little sweaty?

01:12:51Guest:Yes, I do.

01:12:53Guest:I do.

01:12:54Guest:And so, I mean, that record in particular.

01:12:57Marc:But it popped the one, like, I don't know how many bonafide hits you had, but the Daisy song was a huge hit.

01:13:03Guest:Oh, yeah, I know.

01:13:05Marc:And it sits alone in that fucking record.

01:13:07Guest:I know, I know.

01:13:08Guest:It took like three seconds to write that song, too.

01:13:11Guest:It was really funny.

01:13:13Guest:But that's amazing about the music business.

01:13:15Guest:Were you baffled and amazed?

01:13:16Guest:Out of that cow dung inspired thing, the one flower was that Daisy song.

01:13:25Guest:Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

01:13:26Guest:I couldn't believe it.

01:13:27Guest:It was ridiculous.

01:13:28Guest:We...

01:13:29Guest:I remember, yeah, it literally took about two and a half minutes to record that song on the four track.

01:13:34Guest:And it was right at the time when Nirvana was breaking.

01:13:40Guest:And I remember all the record companies were scrambling for new and alternative type stuff.

01:13:47Guest:And we had just signed to Elektra.

01:13:50Marc:Uh-huh.

01:13:50Marc:That's a big label.

01:13:52Guest:Yeah.

01:13:53Guest:And they wanted pure guava.

01:13:56Marc:Uh-huh.

01:13:57Guest:And...

01:13:58Marc:You'd already recorded the record.

01:14:00Guest:I believe we did.

01:14:01Guest:All those records were recorded on a four track in our apartment.

01:14:04Guest:We were living together at the time.

01:14:07Guest:And so Elektra puts it out, and then they suddenly pushed Little Daisies.

01:14:13Guest:It's getting played all over the country, and it...

01:14:16Guest:I know, you know, I just sat back.

01:14:18Guest:I never said anything.

01:14:19Guest:It was like, okay.

01:14:19Marc:But you made some money on that tune, right?

01:14:21Guest:A little bit, you know?

01:14:23Guest:Yeah.

01:14:23Guest:It put us on the map with a lot of people.

01:14:25Guest:Right.

01:14:26Guest:I mean, that tour led us to Australia.

01:14:30Guest:And I remember Pusha Little Daisies was huge in Australia.

01:14:33Guest:Yeah.

01:14:33Guest:And we got off this plane and it was one of those like walk down from the planes.

01:14:37Guest:Right.

01:14:37Guest:It was literally like my Beatles moment.

01:14:39Guest:Yeah.

01:14:39Guest:It was all these kids.

01:14:41Guest:Uh-huh.

01:14:41Guest:And they're all there, Pusha Little Daisies.

01:14:44Guest:I was like, you got to be kidding me.

01:14:45Marc:Was there one of those moments, though, when did you find that that wave of new fans, like when people who came for that song would have to like, sort of like, who are these guys?

01:14:56Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:14:57Guest:Yeah.

01:14:57Guest:Oh, I loved that.

01:14:58Guest:Yeah.

01:14:59Guest:Yeah.

01:15:00Guest:All these innocent victims we got to just slay.

01:15:03Guest:Time to blow some minds.

01:15:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:15:06Guest:Because back then, it was the two of us in a little, we used a dat player to play our bass and drums.

01:15:14Marc:So it was just the two of you.

01:15:15Guest:And it was rough, man, yeah.

01:15:16Marc:And you were playing, how big were the rooms?

01:15:19Guest:Well, it spiked at that point.

01:15:21Guest:It went back down, and then it came back up.

01:15:24Guest:But we were playing in front of a lot of new faces, put it that way.

01:15:28Marc:I can't imagine what it must be like to, because at that time,

01:15:33Marc:and I think still now to some degree outside of DJing is that people are accustomed to seeing a band.

01:15:39Marc:So when it's just two young guys with a machine, I mean, with their moments where it's like, what the fuck?

01:15:45Guest:Oh yeah, we pissed people off, man.

01:15:47Guest:It was so fun.

01:15:50Guest:Because when we have a band, we try to really put on a great show.

01:15:55Marc:I've seen the live footage.

01:15:56Marc:You guys rock pretty hard there.

01:15:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:15:58Guest:But when it was two of us, it was pretty much like performance art.

01:16:03Guest:And boy, we had a lot of interesting... I remember we opened up for Fugazi once, who's real straight edge.

01:16:10Guest:Sure, sure.

01:16:11Guest:And we, at that time, taking a lot of mushrooms, came out and just...

01:16:18Guest:They just hated us.

01:16:20Guest:I remember there was like a thousand Fugazi fans and they were just, and I was so hot.

01:16:26Guest:I was just like, come on guys.

01:16:28Guest:You love us.

01:16:29Guest:You love it.

01:16:31Guest:And they just started throwing gum in our hair and stuff.

01:16:34Marc:Did you hold your ground?

01:16:35Guest:We did.

01:16:36Guest:I just laughed.

01:16:38Guest:I was laughing so hard.

01:16:39Guest:you're on shrooms at the time yeah oh yeah so everything was vibrating everything was vibrating it didn't get too evil tell him to come up and give me a kiss you know and they were just hating there was so much hate going on so i like to think that we changed changed the world a little bit that night well did you find that uh you know even with the was it the 12 great country hits is that what it's called did you find did you provoke any hostility from uh from the country people

01:17:05Guest:No, you know, we didn't.

01:17:07Guest:No, that was a great experience all around.

01:17:10Marc:What was the choice when you got into that?

01:17:14Marc:You wanted to play with those musicians?

01:17:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:17Guest:It was all facilitated by Ben Vaughn, who produced my new thing.

01:17:22Guest:And we had these songs that had a country vibe to them.

01:17:35Guest:down in nashville these guys are all kind of not doing anything but they belong to a union and these heavy cats down there yeah they've been there forever they've been there forever and so we got them we got charlie mccoy who was a really famous harmonica player and you know played on every record you know back then nashville skyline and all that stuff did he he worked at oh yeah oh yeah they all did and um

01:17:59Marc:So they're used to these kind of like hippie upstarts coming down.

01:18:03Guest:They were.

01:18:04Guest:Our band in particular, the ones we got, were all probably in their 60s, mid-60s.

01:18:12Guest:And they had stories about Leonard Cohen coming down there, about Bob Dylan.

01:18:17Guest:They had great Bob Dylan stories.

01:18:19Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:18:19Guest:Just like, they would be like, yeah, man, he was working on something, Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands or something.

01:18:26Guest:Yeah.

01:18:27Guest:and didn't he's trying to finish it and he didn't shower and you know he came in and he was such a dick and really stunk up the whole place you guys must have been eating that shit i loved it i loved it and apparently leonard i don't know if i'll get in trouble for this but leonard cohen had some guy uh

01:18:45Guest:Some, some guy in the studio with him and he would apparently, according to this legend, stop, stop recording mid track and have his friend beat him on the back with a leather whip.

01:19:00Guest:And then the guy would say, you know, you need to repent.

01:19:02Guest:really yeah and if you love leonard cohen like i do you that makes perfect sense you know but i need to repent yeah and the guy you know you get whipped with the leather slash i could see that start recording again these guys were down there like i couldn't believe that leonard cohen guy down there you know because most guys bring a dude with blow a little drug bag he's got a guy with a whip yes and it's not even a sexual thing no it wasn't it wasn't it was it

01:19:29Marc:I mean, I just thought that was the funniest story.

01:19:31Marc:So you record with these great country guys.

01:19:34Marc:Were they impressed with you?

01:19:35Marc:I mean, did they?

01:19:35Guest:They did.

01:19:36Guest:They loved it.

01:19:36Guest:They had a great time.

01:19:38Guest:Yeah.

01:19:38Guest:They were worried about getting in trouble with their wives.

01:19:40Guest:I think a couple of them, they said that.

01:19:42Guest:For what?

01:19:43Guest:I don't know.

01:19:44Guest:Just a couple of the songs.

01:19:45Guest:They were cool.

01:19:46Guest:Because they were dirty?

01:19:47Marc:Yeah, they're dirty.

01:19:48Marc:Don't let my wife hear this one.

01:19:50Marc:Who else were the major influences?

01:19:52Marc:Like in names, not just tone.

01:19:54Marc:Yeah.

01:19:54Guest:Well, I mean, there was a lot of, like we were talking about 70s soft rock influence.

01:20:00Guest:And then as I got older, you know, Prince had a big impact on me.

01:20:04Guest:The Beatles had a big impact on me.

01:20:06Marc:Like which albums?

01:20:09Guest:All of them.

01:20:09Guest:I mean, huge Beatles head.

01:20:11Guest:They really blew my mind.

01:20:13Marc:I can't.

01:20:13Marc:It's unbelievable to me that I go back to them now.

01:20:17Marc:I'll just be listening.

01:20:18Marc:I mean, I've gotten thousands of choices.

01:20:21Marc:I'll go back to very specific Beatles albums and Beatles songs for weird reasons.

01:20:26Marc:Sometimes I just have to listen to Flying on Magical Mystery Tour.

01:20:30Marc:Out of all the Beatles songs in the world.

01:20:32Guest:Yeah, sure.

01:20:33Marc:You just need to listen to that occasionally.

01:20:35Guest:It never gets old.

01:20:36Guest:I mean, it was a real peak of everything.

01:20:39Marc:Isn't that fascinating, though?

01:20:40Marc:How the fuck...

01:20:41Marc:Did they create this alchemy where they have like, I would say 80% of their catalog is legitimately timeless.

01:20:48Guest:Yeah, I know.

01:20:49Marc:Like the older ones, you're like, well, they're doing that.

01:20:51Marc:There's a sound to it that was familiar with other musicians.

01:20:55Marc:But there's a bunch where you're like, where did this fucking come from?

01:20:58Guest:i know there's no rhyme or reason to it you know i think once they you know there's a lot of great bands or great music um but what the beatles did was they had such a great thing and they realized it and it just came so naturally to just get better and better and better was the four track did you get that from them the idea of committing to a four track and working with it as an instrument almost

01:21:21Guest:no i think the reason we had a four track we just couldn't they're just cool you know you can anybody can buy a four track and have it in their their room yeah and uh this was before digital right so now everybody's got their laptops with pro tools on it you know that's kind of cheating almost it is a little bit yeah and that's what i loved about the four track is you couldn't cheat on it you you had to record a track that was legit or start over again right and you needed drums and

01:21:46Guest:yeah yeah yeah so it was a great thing you know and i also like that you could speed it up or slow it down right you know yeah but it's just it was just a great thing for people that didn't have a lot of money to just record with isn't that bizarre that analog and four tracks actually have an organic integrity to them and i think there was a time where you're like you know well this is actually uh manipulating yes but but now it's like no that's old school yeah it is old school do you still use it

01:22:11Guest:Occasionally, yeah.

01:22:14Guest:Because you can't cheat on it.

01:22:15Guest:You can't cheat.

01:22:16Guest:On Pro Tools, there's so many thousands and millions of ways of cheating.

01:22:20Marc:Does it bother you that people can now pitch their voice?

01:22:23Marc:It doesn't sound the same, though.

01:22:28Guest:Because I love pitch.

01:22:29Guest:I love pitching.

01:22:30Guest:I mean, Push the Little Daisies, for example, is totally sped up.

01:22:33Guest:Right.

01:22:33Guest:Uh, but it sounds natural.

01:22:37Guest:Yeah.

01:22:37Guest:It's a tape speed.

01:22:39Marc:It's not something that just adjust the, I don't even know how that it's like, it's not a clock thing.

01:22:44Guest:Yeah.

01:22:44Guest:The computers are all clocks.

01:22:46Guest:Yeah.

01:22:46Marc:I don't know how they work, how they change a pitch on something.

01:22:48Marc:It's not just a speed thing.

01:22:49Marc:They can actually put somebody in tune.

01:22:51Guest:Yeah.

01:22:52Guest:Yeah.

01:22:52Marc:Take a vocal track.

01:22:53Guest:Yes.

01:22:54Marc:And correct it for auto tune.

01:22:56Guest:Yeah.

01:22:56Guest:Oh yeah.

01:22:57Guest:That's a biggie.

01:22:57Marc:It's kind of fucked up, isn't it?

01:22:59Guest:I have a song, it's called Spirit Walker, and I guess it's from our last record.

01:23:04Guest:Yeah.

01:23:04Guest:And I just, I really over, I abused the auto-tune miserably, and it sounds great.

01:23:10Marc:What, you did it as an experiment?

01:23:12Guest:Yeah, because I mean, it's just a thing you download, you know, it's like, oh, I got auto-tuned.

01:23:16Guest:So I just turned everything up to full and ran my vocals through it, and it's just like...

01:23:21Guest:it's really crazy i love it it became like the instrument of the song it became part of the song well that i think actually can be uh seen as a satirical attack on on autotune i guess if you look back i just thought it sounded cool because it's a really it's it's a really out there song to begin with so it was like perfect but

01:23:41Marc:we've already isolated that you have a certain uh propensity towards pissing people off and there's an enjoyment that's pretty much what it is you know and we love to piss people off and we always called the punk rock aesthetic you know gotta but you're like the punk rock aesthetic but you know broken open into like you know you were composers and great musicians so that connected with the punk rock aesthetic is baffling to those absolutely but i imagine the initiated probably like oh i get it

01:24:05Marc:oh they get it yeah like oh god yeah and do they get it yeah they do they do they get it a lot of people get it so do you find that people uh like in terms of your fans i mean do i mean i when you have as strong a cult following as you do you're kind of revered how do you uh handle that do you have encounters with fans that are a little disconcerting in terms of how much they worship what you do yeah it's crazy it's i mean i can generally say our fans are nice and um

01:24:34Marc:you know i'm glad i'm not motley crew or something and right you know i could only imagine i thought you did blow yeah exactly exactly we don't have a lot of meathead freaks but we you cut them out of the herd early on yeah i imagine there was a moment there where we isolated them and yeah like because anytime you put drugs together in music there's going to be meatheads there yeah that's true and that's true and you know who they are and they kind of they kind of went away after two or three albums we don't understand any of this shit exactly

01:25:02Guest:There's some meatheads that love it, actually, and it's cool.

01:25:05Guest:Meatheads need it, too.

01:25:06Marc:Well, there's anarchic meatheads, which are better than jock meatheads.

01:25:10Guest:Right.

01:25:11Guest:Yeah, I mean, for ween, if you can make it through, it's like the cycles.

01:25:15Guest:If you can make it through all the cycles, then you win.

01:25:18Guest:The levels of ween.

01:25:19Guest:You're there, and you definitely get a seat...

01:25:22Guest:it's like some sort of weird pyramids yeah yeah exactly it really is and and then and then you get your seat and and you're fine and so when you're talking to a real ween fan they have their seat and they're fine with it they really don't have much to prove right initiation yeah exactly they've eaten it and they've gotten there and they're happy about it and they

01:25:44Guest:They're pretty much satisfied, you know, so it's not that hard, you know.

01:25:49Guest:It's a cool thing.

01:25:50Guest:Yeah, because you know that they, you know, it's like, well, there's nothing we can put these two guys through.

01:25:54Guest:No.

01:25:55Guest:That they're not going to get.

01:25:56Guest:Right, right.

01:25:58Guest:They don't expect much.

01:25:59Guest:They don't, you know, they're fine.

01:26:01Guest:I wonder if they're sort of like...

01:26:02Guest:Are they like deadheads or like when, like, you know, Bob's singing, let's go to the bathroom.

01:26:08Guest:Do you definitely sense when you're in concert that there are certain things you're doing where certain members of your audience would be like, all right, I can go drink during this one.

01:26:16Guest:Yeah.

01:26:16Guest:Oh, yeah, definitely.

01:26:17Guest:And us included.

01:26:18Guest:I mean, we play songs so we could, you know, go do whatever.

01:26:20Guest:Right.

01:26:21Guest:So, yeah, and people know it.

01:26:22Guest:You know, there's a song, Pandy Fackler, we do.

01:26:24Guest:It's like 12-minute vamp.

01:26:26Guest:Yeah.

01:26:27Guest:And everybody goes and smokes.

01:26:29Guest:Trying to go to the bathroom.

01:26:29Guest:Yeah, they go smoke or do whatever they got to do.

01:26:31Guest:and you know that and i am too i'm in the dressing room right you know that take out my stuff and i'm just sitting out hanging out yeah then i go back on stage but you put that in there for that reason oh yeah yeah but our keyboard player loved it you know because he plays on it yeah he plays on it that's his time yeah so the real diehards who don't have to go to the bathroom and smoke weed and you're like i know this is my favorite part oh yeah yeah there's always those people yeah oh man

01:26:57Marc:Everyone's missing the best thing.

01:26:58Guest:Totally.

01:26:59Marc:So what led to... This is the first solo album, huh?

01:27:02Marc:Yep, yep.

01:27:03Marc:First solo record.

01:27:04Marc:I mean, were you just hanging out and decided like... Yeah, I was hanging out.

01:27:10Guest:We were coming down the East Coast and we hit L.A.

01:27:13Guest:and I was hanging out with Ben Vaughn.

01:27:16Marc:He's your producer guy.

01:27:17Guest:Yeah, he produced this record and sort of got the whole thing together and he was working on... This was just something that he's been thinking about doing.

01:27:26Guest:With you.

01:27:27Guest:Yeah, well, not with me at the time, but yeah, once we started talking about it, we realized I would love to do it and I'd be perfect for it.

01:27:34Marc:What was he thinking about it exactly in terms of conceiving the record?

01:27:38Marc:Like, what's a producer bring to it?

01:27:42Guest:What did he bring to it?

01:27:43Guest:He brought the musicians together.

01:27:44Guest:He picked the songs.

01:27:46Marc:They were your songs, though.

01:27:48Guest:No, no.

01:27:48Guest:It's all the stuff by a gentleman, Rod McEwen.

01:27:52Marc:These are all Rod McEwen songs?

01:27:53Guest:They're all Rod McEwen songs.

01:27:55Guest:So it's really a tribute record to Rod McEwen.

01:27:57Guest:So we picked out 14 Rod McEwen songs, or Ben did.

01:28:02Marc:Because I listened to the record and I read some press about Rob McEwen.

01:28:05Marc:I thought it's just another one of your influences.

01:28:08Guest:It just sounds like Rob McEwen.

01:28:09Marc:But that's the hook of the song.

01:28:10Guest:Yeah, man.

01:28:11Guest:Yeah.

01:28:11Guest:I didn't write anything on my first solo record, which is perfect.

01:28:15Guest:I just sang.

01:28:16Marc:It's interesting because... Well, this is like a testimony to the way I handle interviews.

01:28:21Marc:But...

01:28:22Marc:because rodney kuhn is one of those guys who like was around when i was a kid you know because i was 13 and 76 and you know he was this like weird cultural poet laureate yes and and it and definitely got pushed aside by rock and roll culture as some sort of cheesy remnant but he was hugely popular and his books were hugely popular and i think he he did write a couple of hit songs for other people did he not

01:28:48Guest:Oh, he did.

01:28:49Guest:Yeah.

01:28:49Guest:Well, Seasons in the Sun.

01:28:50Guest:And Gene, he wrote.

01:28:52Guest:The song Gene.

01:28:54Guest:Gene, the roses are red and all the leaves have gone green.

01:28:57Guest:And you covered that.

01:28:58Guest:Covered that.

01:28:59Marc:You didn't do Seasons in the Sun, though.

01:29:01Guest:No, I didn't do Seasons in the Sun.

01:29:02Marc:One of the most haunting, fucked up songs in the world.

01:29:04Marc:Right, right.

01:29:04Marc:I mean, when that came out.

01:29:06Guest:Song is horrifying.

01:29:06Marc:I remember looking up the lyrics in Song Hits Magazine because I must have been in, that must have been like fourth or fifth grade.

01:29:12Marc:What year was that, 72, 73?

01:29:13Guest:Yeah, something like that.

01:29:15Marc:When that came out and it was just so fucking disturbing.

01:29:17Guest:Yeah, on his deathbed.

01:29:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:29:20Guest:Talking about his wife, you cheated on him.

01:29:22Guest:I don't mind that you cheated on me.

01:29:23Guest:you know it's hard to die when all the birds are singing and i'm like 12 and i'm like what the fuck is this yeah it's a beautiful thing because the music to it is just so happy and yeah but it's it's haunting it's yeah you listen to it it's a nightmare

01:29:39Marc:Well, when going over this stuff, okay, so your producer has this idea to do Rod McEwan songs.

01:29:43Marc:Were you actually a conscious Rod McEwan fan?

01:29:46Guest:No, I wasn't at the time.

01:29:48Guest:I mean, I knew a couple of his songs, but I'm a little young to have, I didn't live through the Rod McEwan time.

01:29:56Guest:He was really a renaissance man, you know, a lot of music.

01:29:59Guest:Is he a live show?

01:30:00Guest:A ton of music.

01:30:00Guest:Yes, he is.

01:30:01Guest:And in fact, I'm going to get to meet him on Wednesday.

01:30:06Guest:out here in L.A., so I'm very excited.

01:30:09Guest:He doesn't really have many visitors anymore.

01:30:11Guest:He's pretty reclusive.

01:30:12Guest:Really?

01:30:13Guest:Yeah.

01:30:13Guest:So he's a real poet?

01:30:15Guest:Real retired, you know?

01:30:16Guest:Uh-huh.

01:30:17Guest:But he's still, you know, on his website, he's got a website, and he still answers questions for everybody very quickly.

01:30:24Guest:Uh-huh.

01:30:24Guest:And he loves the new record and, you know, invited me and Ben Vaughn to his house to hang out, so I'm really excited about that.

01:30:34Guest:I guess the secret ingredient was after we recorded all the bass stuff and I would do scratch vocals while they were singing it.

01:30:41Guest:And then I came back to LA and did a week's worth of vocals over everything.

01:30:46Guest:A lot of layering and stuff like that.

01:30:48Guest:I love that stuff.

01:30:49Guest:And then we had this guy, Schmed.

01:30:52Guest:Yeah, I like that name.

01:30:53Guest:Yeah, he's like this secret weapon.

01:30:55Guest:He sounds like a secret weapon.

01:30:57Guest:In L.A., apparently.

01:30:58Guest:Schmed.

01:30:58Guest:Yeah, Schmed.

01:30:59Guest:Gotta get Schmed in here.

01:31:01Guest:So Schmed comes in.

01:31:02Guest:For the final mix?

01:31:03Guest:Yeah, so he comes in and he added all the glitzy, all the little celeste and bells.

01:31:08Guest:Is he a musician or he just did it?

01:31:11Guest:He's a great musician.

01:31:13Guest:And...

01:31:14Guest:so he he really added all the the finishing touches to the record uh-huh so you know it's just very simple how we did it you know just uh the basic basic instruments my vocals and then schmed okay schmed it got schmetted got schmetted yes it got schmetted at the end

01:31:31Marc:Well, it's a beautiful record.

01:31:33Marc:I enjoyed listening to it.

01:31:34Marc:And now that I know that it's all Rob McEwen's, I'm like, what a fucking idiot I am.

01:31:39Guest:It's all right, I'll forgive you.

01:31:41Marc:Yeah, but I did listen to it twice.

01:31:43Marc:Oh, cool.

01:31:44Marc:But it was one of those things where I don't know if I didn't read the press materials, but I'm like, I was so hung up on knowing about Ween, I didn't know the basic premise of the new record.

01:31:51Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:52Marc:But I think I handled it well.

01:31:53Guest:You did.

01:31:54Guest:You did.

01:31:54Guest:You handled like a pro for sure.

01:31:56Guest:Not knowing who wrote my solo record.

01:31:58Marc:That's great.

01:31:59Marc:A pro in my garage.

01:32:00Marc:Yeah.

01:32:02Marc:I'm the only one who's going to take a hit now.

01:32:04Marc:Wow.

01:32:04Marc:I'm going to take two hits.

01:32:05Marc:Fucking Maren didn't know it was a Rob McEwen album.

01:32:08Marc:He didn't even ask him about Quebec.

01:32:10Guest:He didn't even ask him about Quebec.

01:32:12Guest:You'll definitely get a lot of complaints from Wien fans.

01:32:15Guest:Dude, I can't believe you didn't ask him about this.

01:32:17Marc:Yeah, well, there's no winning that one.

01:32:19Guest:There is no winning that one, no.

01:32:22Marc:What I gleaned from the internet and from my Twitter engagement was that Chocolate and Cheese, Quebec, and The Mollusk were the ones that people thought were definitive ween albums.

01:32:31Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:32:32Guest:Do you think that?

01:32:33Guest:I'd say so, yeah.

01:32:34Guest:The Mollusk is probably my favorite.

01:32:36Guest:Yeah?

01:32:36Guest:End of the day, yeah.

01:32:37Guest:Why?

01:32:38Guest:Just really, because, you know, I think all great records have a concept, and if they can be seen through,

01:32:46Guest:The concept is seen through and it really sounds like it on every song.

01:32:50Guest:Right.

01:32:51Guest:And I just, it's strong.

01:32:53Marc:So what do you got planned?

01:32:54Marc:Now, do you, when you do an album like this, do you send it over to Mickey and say, dig this?

01:32:58Marc:No, no, no.

01:33:00Marc:I haven't.

01:33:00Guest:Not for any advice.

01:33:01Marc:He's heard it.

01:33:01Guest:He likes it.

01:33:02Marc:Oh, that's it?

01:33:03Marc:Yeah.

01:33:03Marc:You guys are still buddies?

01:33:04Yeah.

01:33:04Guest:yeah yeah we i mean we're we've known each other since we were 15 so you know it's we we go and do our own things we both have families and stuff he's got a family too oh yeah yeah but there's never been a period where you're like no fuck you i'm done with this shit yeah there's been many periods like that sure sure absolutely are you kidding me

01:33:23Guest:Yeah.

01:33:25Guest:Do you plan to work together again?

01:33:27Guest:Oh, yeah, I'm sure at some point.

01:33:31Guest:Vague.

01:33:32Guest:I'm going to be real vague about that one, but we're taking a hiatus.

01:33:35Guest:Yeah?

01:33:36Marc:Yeah.

01:33:37Marc:Is he going to do some solo stuff or what?

01:33:39Guest:I'm not sure.

01:33:39Guest:I'm not sure what he's going to do.

01:33:41Marc:This doesn't sound like a healthy relationship at this point in time.

01:33:44Guest:Yeah.

01:33:46Guest:Yeah, he doesn't care what he does.

01:33:49Guest:Oh, boy.

01:33:49Guest:Son of a bitch.

01:33:50Guest:No, I'm kidding.

01:33:51Marc:What do you think's here for you?

01:33:52Guest:Well, I'd like to get more into the different kind of media, I think.

01:34:00Marc:Do you ever think about going into production?

01:34:02Guest:Yeah.

01:34:03Guest:Like production, I have a seven-year-old son, and I watch these cartoons, and they're great.

01:34:10Guest:Like Adventure Time is brilliant, and it's inspiring to me.

01:34:16Guest:So I would like to...

01:34:17Guest:Maybe do something like that, you know, creative consultant or get into animation.

01:34:22Guest:I think I could bring a lot to that.

01:34:23Marc:Absolutely.

01:34:24Guest:With my background.

01:34:25Guest:So, you know, that kind of stuff.

01:34:27Guest:And this would be the place to do it for sure.

01:34:29Marc:And you can find a comfortable life here.

01:34:31Guest:Yeah.

01:34:32Marc:Yeah.

01:34:32Marc:But you want to live by the beach.

01:34:33Guest:Eh, we'll see.

01:34:35Guest:We'll see where it takes me.

01:34:36Marc:You can come out here to the hills on the edge of town.

01:34:39Guest:It's very pretty out here.

01:34:40Marc:Yeah, I like it.

01:34:41Guest:But yeah, we didn't realize, my wife and I haven't really driven in LA very much, so I didn't realize it takes an hour or two.

01:34:48Marc:That's the only thing you're going to find.

01:34:50Marc:You can definitely find a piece of the world out here that you're comfortable in, but if you need to go to another part of the world, that's where the hate comes.

01:34:59Marc:Yes, yes.

01:35:00Marc:And there's no end to it.

01:35:02Marc:That's going to be the biggest challenge is overcoming traffic hate.

01:35:05Guest:Yeah.

01:35:06Guest:We were getting a good dose of that.

01:35:07Guest:It never stops.

01:35:09Guest:Yeah.

01:35:09Guest:Right.

01:35:09Marc:And it's always going to be there.

01:35:11Marc:Yeah.

01:35:12Marc:It's a very hard constant to accept.

01:35:14Marc:Yes.

01:35:15Marc:Do you ever watch it?

01:35:16Marc:Like there's a couple of dudes that do some, like I always, do you know who Tim and Eric are?

01:35:20Marc:Tim and Eric.

01:35:21Marc:They do some weird ass shit.

01:35:23Marc:Oh, really?

01:35:24Marc:They're a sketch.

01:35:24Marc:I don't even know how you would phrase them, but I always say they're the ween of the comedy world because they seem to be able to integrate seamlessly all different styles of media into one completely absurd, disturbing fucking mix.

01:35:36Marc:Nice.

01:35:37Marc:You should do a little research on them.

01:35:38Guest:I will.

01:35:39Guest:Tim and Eric?

01:35:40Marc:Yeah, Tim and Eric.

01:35:40Marc:I'll check that out.

01:35:41Marc:They won't come on my podcast, but I will speak highly of them.

01:35:45Yeah.

01:35:45Marc:because there's something about people that do something like you do with music where there there gets to a point where you can't like you and not unlike you but you i think you did very well with it where you're like i can't explain everything yeah yeah yeah that's true there's a lot of stuff you just can't explain you know it's like you know let them read let everyone read into it yeah we're just a couple of dudes doing what we do yes

01:36:07Guest:That's very true.

01:36:08Guest:That's very true.

01:36:10Marc:Don't expect me to do the job of a critic with my own shit.

01:36:13Marc:Yep.

01:36:14Marc:It came out of nowhere and it's magic and that's the end of it.

01:36:16Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:36:17Marc:All right.

01:36:18Marc:Absolutely.

01:36:18Marc:Well, thanks for being here, Aaron.

01:36:19Guest:Yeah, thank you very much.

01:36:26Marc:Well, there you go.

01:36:27Marc:Gene Ween slash Aaron Freeman.

01:36:29Marc:I think Aaron Freeman now for the rest of his life.

01:36:33Marc:No longer Gene Ween.

01:36:34Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.

01:36:34Marc:That was our music doubleheader.

01:36:37Marc:That's our shows.

01:36:39Marc:Our show.

01:36:40Marc:Next week, we will be doing three shows.

01:36:45Marc:Three completely new shows on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

01:36:49Marc:It's not necessarily going to be a regular thing.

01:36:51Marc:It's just that we need to do it right now because I've been talking to a lot of people.

01:36:56Marc:Pow.

01:36:58Marc:Already did that.

01:36:59Marc:Lighthearted, pow.

01:37:01Marc:What else?

01:37:01Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:37:04Marc:Get the app.

01:37:05Marc:Get some posters.

01:37:06Marc:Going to be putting up new posters there next week.

01:37:08Marc:A couple new ones from the Chicago artist.

01:37:11Marc:Also, you can go to Twitter.

01:37:15Marc:I'm Mark Maron on Twitter.

01:37:16Marc:I never say that.

01:37:18Marc:Also on Facebook, you can go to the fan page, Mark Maron.

01:37:21Marc:Do that thing.

01:37:22Marc:I'm not that active on Facebook.

01:37:24Marc:I'm tired of Facebook.

01:37:27Marc:I'm tired of it.

01:37:29Marc:Anywhere where your parents are is not the place for you.

01:37:32Marc:Do I still believe that?

01:37:34Guest:Am I still that kid?

01:37:37Guest:Hey, my mom's here.

01:37:38Guest:I'm not going to hang out.

01:37:41Guest:My parents are here.

01:37:42Guest:That's cool.

01:37:43Guest:They're cool parents, but my mom's always writing in all caps here.

01:37:47Guest:And I'm out.

01:37:49Guest:I'm out.