Episode 303 - Brett Gelman
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck a recans?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:How about you?
Marc:What the fuck a holics?
Marc:Because I am Mark Maron and I am 13 years sober today today is that I can't even believe it.
Marc:Can you believe it?
Marc:Maybe you can.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But 13 years, no booze, no drugs.
Marc:I can't say that it's been the smoothest ride.
Marc:There were a couple of times back in the day when things were out of control where I might have been having a better time, but not many.
Marc:A lot of things have changed over 13 years, and I'm just happy as hell, grateful, and amazed that I have been sober that long.
Marc:I just wanted to share that with you, and for those of you who are struggling with that stuff, it can be done, because damn it, if I can do it, you can do it.
Marc:It can be done.
Marc:Just don't think of it in the long haul.
Marc:Never say never.
Marc:Just say today.
Marc:Dig that, huh?
Marc:A little spiritual message.
Marc:Not even.
Marc:A little practical information for you.
Marc:Really, all you have is this moment.
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:And that one's gone.
Marc:All right, enough of that.
Marc:But thank you for your support.
Marc:on all levels.
Marc:That being said, today on the show, Brett Gelman is here, and that guy is hilarious.
Marc:That guy is one of the greatest comedic comedy actors that we have right now.
Marc:You might not even know him, but I bet you if you Google him, you'll be like, oh yeah, that guy.
Marc:He's been in movies, been on Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Marc:He was on Eagle Heart, on Adult Swim there with the Chris Elliott fella.
Marc:Did I say the other guys?
Marc:Because he had a good scene in that.
Marc:Brett Gellman, hilarious.
Marc:Can I get a little business out of the way?
Marc:And then I'm going to tell you a story.
Marc:This Saturday, I will be at Wise Guys in Utah for two shows.
Marc:I always have a good time in Utah.
Marc:People are very happy to see me there.
Marc:There's a relief to it.
Marc:You know, sometimes I think SLC is a little tough to get through and I'm excited to go there.
Marc:And then after that, on August 17th and 18th, did something just happen to the 18th coming out of my mouth?
Marc:My brain seems to be squishing words.
Marc:Like, I can feel them coming out of my mouth as whole words, and then they get squished.
Marc:I think I'm okay.
Marc:August 17th and 18th, I will be in Victoria, Esquimalt.
Marc:I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right.
Marc:Esquimalt.
Marc:I hope it's right.
Marc:Victoria for the Blue Ridge Comedy Festival.
Marc:You can go to my site, by the way, WTF pod dot com for all that information.
Marc:Let's get into this story because it did have an effect on me.
Marc:I was just in Chicago.
Marc:I didn't talk to you about Chicago, but I've grown to really like Chicago because it's a real deal place.
Marc:It's a city with its own integrity, its own history.
Marc:There's beautiful neighborhoods.
Marc:There's beautiful architects.
Marc:Chicago's got everything.
Marc:Good people.
Marc:And I quite honestly, all the people that came out to the main stage in Chicago, I want to thank that venue.
Marc:I want to thank you.
Marc:I honestly believe those are some of the best shows I've ever done in my life.
Marc:Something magic happened in this place over last weekend.
Marc:I mean, I can't explain it to you.
Marc:It's a great venue, the main stage.
Marc:It's really one of the best venues I've ever played.
Marc:And I would play there.
Marc:I wish I could move the main stage theater from Chicago around on a trailer and travel with it.
Marc:Great place, because it has the illusion of being a huge theater, but it's this intimate place.
Marc:But some of the shows there, I did things I have never done before, and I was at a comfort level and an open-heartedness that I've never experienced before.
Marc:So I just want to say that those of you who saw some of those shows at the main stage saw something that was completely new to me, and I was thrilled that you saw it.
Marc:Now, maybe by virtue of the fact that
Marc:I was coming up on 13 years sober, maybe by virtue of the fact that I just gotten too comfortable or too open.
Marc:Something went down, man.
Marc:Something happened and it was not pizza related.
Marc:It was it was psychically related.
Marc:I really am wary to go into this, but I'm going to.
Marc:Here's what happened.
Marc:I was booked on a show.
Marc:I thought it was a radio show.
Marc:It's a podcast, very popular podcast, The Paper Machete Show.
Marc:I think the guy's name is Chris.
Marc:Somehow they reached out to me and I just knew I had a gig.
Marc:I didn't know what the show was, had not listened to it.
Marc:Didn't know it was as popular as it is.
Marc:Didn't know it was a thing.
Marc:But they were taping a live show.
Marc:It's a variety show, weekly variety show with sketch elements, improv elements, writing, all kinds of stuff.
Marc:It's definitely a thing.
Marc:And they were recording it at the Green Mill cocktail lounge, which I heard had a history.
Marc:I mean, the thing that you hear in Chicago is like, oh, the Green Mill, that was Capone's place.
Marc:Okay, well, that sounds interesting.
Marc:Capone owned 25% of it through his henchmen, one of these guys.
Marc:I don't know the guy's name offhand.
Marc:This isn't a history lesson.
Marc:This is the bedrock of my mystical adventure that he owned.
Marc:He got into it for about 25% through this henchman because basically what they were trying to do was muscle the comedian and singer Joey Lewis into performing there exclusively.
Marc:And that's why he took a stake in this was to bully this guy into playing.
Marc:And Joey Lewis was a popular comic entertainer at the time.
Marc:And you might know him from movies if you're a movie buff.
Marc:Well, what happened was apparently Joey Lewis balked at this.
Marc:And Capone's guy, who now was 25 percent owner of the Green Mill.
Marc:cut his throat and joey lewis you know held on to his throat somehow did not die they bashed his head and cut his throat he made it to the hospital he survived and went on to perform in movies and on stage of course his voice was never the same and his brain was never the same but he he transcended that shit now that's some pretty dark karma for a place to hold and obviously in my mind if i'm looking at it metaphorically not a friendly venue to comedians
Marc:On a mystical level.
Marc:And also these kind of places that have dark histories that they don't really redecorate.
Marc:There's definitely ghosts in the room.
Marc:And I heard someone told me there were tunnels underneath it going to a couple other places for gangster getaways.
Marc:When there's a vibe in a place, when there's a spirit to a place, when there may be ghosts in the wood of the bar at the place, I tend to think that I can feel them.
Marc:I mean, I work at the comedy store and no one's going to tell me that place isn't just...
Marc:polluted with poltergeists and apparitions of sorts, angry spirits.
Marc:So I go to this place.
Marc:It's three in the afternoon.
Marc:The place is packed.
Marc:OK, kind of an NPR slash hipster group, but a giant nerd cluster, I'll call it in a loving way.
Marc:And I was I was surprised because I didn't realize it would be that big a deal.
Marc:But then I found out this is a very grounded show and popular show.
Marc:And I get to the green mill and I feel the vibe.
Marc:And there's right away, you know, after doing a little research on it and walking into the place, I realized that there is no nerd cluster big enough that is going to battle the spirits of that place.
Marc:So I walked in there in full mystical warfare mode, which I don't get into that much.
Marc:I was a little defensive because I didn't realize the situation was going to be as big as it was.
Marc:I was a little frustrated because it was the middle of the day and I don't love doing comedy in the middle of the day.
Marc:And also there was that part of me that's like, dude, you've been having great shows.
Marc:You're going to have to take a hit.
Marc:That was the guy inside of me that that regulates my humility.
Marc:There's a little guy inside of me that regulates my humility.
Marc:You're doing great.
Marc:You're going to have to feel shitty about one of them.
Marc:He was he was also present.
Marc:So I walk into the place.
Marc:I take a seat in a booth that's a comfortable position.
Marc:I just sit next to these two comics who I'm talking to.
Marc:And then this woman appears.
Marc:She'd been buzzing around the place.
Marc:I didn't really notice her until she got into my face.
Marc:This weird kind of rail-thin woman that was wearing a sundress that was hanging off her like it would have hung off a hanger.
Marc:She had stringy, weird clothes.
Marc:oily hair i'm not going to use the word weird anymore she was gaunt she had glasses and she was exuding an energy of somebody who had decided that she was running the venue and it was my feeling at that moment that she wasn't really running the venue look i've been involved with uh communities before and there's always sort of marginalized people that find their way into communities especially weekly shows or performances and
Marc:where they become tolerated because they become regulars.
Marc:And, hey, they're kooky, but we've taken her in.
Marc:That was how I projected a personality on her, that she was a control freak who thought that she was important to whatever was going on there, and she had been indulged to think that she was.
Marc:God, this is, you know, like I'm talking, I feel anger coming at me, coming out of me because I have, I've not felt this.
Marc:I have not felt this kind of anger in a while.
Marc:So because I've been sort of wide open, man, I've been trying to be open minded, open hearted.
Marc:And, you know, and my boundaries are not great to begin with.
Marc:So I sit down at this table and this woman,
Marc:With this intensity, this horrible intrusive intensity, boundaryless, just gets right into my face right when I sit down, like literally a foot away and goes, I'm reserved.
Marc:This table is my table.
Marc:I'm reserving this table.
Marc:And I'm like, no problem.
Marc:I'll just move when you want to sit down.
Marc:And then she says, but I have other people.
Marc:There might be other people that want to sit at this table that I reserve for them.
Marc:And I'm like, all right.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I will move when you need the table.
Marc:I'm just trying to get comfortable here.
Marc:I'm just trying to sit down for a minute.
Marc:And she goes and storms off.
Marc:Now, she didn't know who I was.
Marc:And then I saw her talking to the guy that booked the show, and he told her who I was.
Marc:And I could just tell by her body language and also because I overheard her say, oh, so he's the big star?
Marc:And it was just this energy where whatever was going on in the room made no difference to her.
Marc:The show made no difference to her because this was her day.
Marc:This was her show.
Marc:She got under my skin.
Marc:And I could just feel it.
Marc:Like I felt the anger.
Marc:I felt like there was a war at stake.
Marc:And I was fighting some sort of aggressive, broken, boundaryless spirit in this place that was polluted to begin with, with all kinds of dark energy.
Marc:So this is what was going through my head.
Marc:I stopped thinking about her.
Marc:I talked to the comedians.
Marc:I talked to the guy running the show.
Marc:I find out when I'm going to go on, what not.
Marc:And then as I'm waiting, she comes over with two women who were friends with her.
Marc:She's like, this is their table.
Marc:This is who I was saving it for.
Marc:I'm like, fine, fine.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:And I move over to the other side of these comics.
Marc:And the whole thing was weird.
Marc:Even they felt it.
Marc:And I was cool.
Marc:I was just trying to get focused.
Marc:I didn't know what I was going to do up there.
Marc:And, you know, the show had started.
Marc:And then I'm about to go on.
Marc:There was a few minutes before because I think her name's Katie Rich.
Marc:She's a popular improviser out there.
Marc:And she did a great thing.
Marc:She does a weekly thing on this show.
Marc:And it was very funny.
Marc:Killed.
Marc:And I'm, you know, I'm after her and I'm getting ready to go on.
Marc:I finally got it in my head what I'm going to do.
Marc:And that woman, this, this freak, you know, right after Katie Rich gets off, this, this woman gets right up next to me.
Marc:I didn't even see her coming.
Marc:I just, all of a sudden her face is next to my head and, and I turn and she goes, you think he can follow that?
Marc:And it was just such a clear attempt at a mind fuck before I went on stage that I turned to her and I said, who are you, fucking Satan?
Marc:And she goes, yes, I am, and huffed off.
Marc:And that just delivered the goods.
Marc:She got in.
Marc:She psychically violated me with her horrendous broken energy.
Marc:And now I was mad.
Marc:And now I'm getting up to get on stage.
Marc:And I'm about to get on stage.
Marc:They're about to introduce me.
Marc:And I'm just focusing on what I need to do.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, I just felt her energy huffing back down the bar, passing hundreds of people in this place.
Marc:And I feel her come right up next to me.
Marc:And she starts to talk.
Marc:And I'm not proud of this.
Marc:I guess I'm apologizing to the universe.
Marc:But before she even could get anything out of her mouth, I turned and I looked at her.
Marc:I said, get the fuck away from me.
Marc:Get the fuck away from me.
Marc:And then they brought me up and I went on stage.
Marc:And I killed.
Marc:I did good.
Marc:I did it for Joey Lewis.
Marc:I did it to fight all the dark spirits and psychic vampires.
Marc:All I'm saying here, if there's a moral to this thing, or any word of advice, is that be careful.
Marc:If you're walking around too open, you might become a payback portal for what broke a person.
Marc:I don't know what it was, but all I know is I got dumped in, if you dig what I'm saying.
Marc:Psychically.
Marc:I got off stage, and I walked right past her, right out into the rain, and got the hell out of there.
Marc:But I thought I'd share that story.
Marc:Oh, good to be sober.
Marc:That didn't feel like a sober-toned story, though.
Marc:Oh, what?
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Oh, no!
Guest:Rob Corddry's... What?
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:This is so weird.
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:This is so- What the hell are you doing here?
Guest:I was in the neighborhood.
Guest:Get out of here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:I was in the neighborhood.
Guest:This is a very Chinese neighborhood.
Guest:It is?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I love Chinese culture.
Guest:I had no idea.
Guest:Oh, take a walk around.
Guest:Like just down the street?
Guest:Oh, they're walking.
Guest:The place is lousy with old Chinese people.
Guest:You see Chinese people-
Guest:Everywhere.
Guest:That is unbelievable.
Guest:With their huge brimmed hats.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Because they hate the sun.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Those people hate the sun.
Marc:You see actual turn of the century Chinese people.
Marc:Old, bound feet.
Marc:Are they working on a railroad?
Guest:There is a railroad down there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:This got racist so quickly.
Marc:Nobody can do it like the Chinese.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Any of it.
Marc:So I thought, you know, Mark lives right up the street.
Marc:I appreciate you coming by because I clearly don't get out enough.
Marc:And you brought coffee in one of my cups.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Isn't that weird?
Guest:And my stuff was already here.
Guest:My phone, my sunglasses.
Guest:This is so fucked up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:What a weird morning.
Marc:It was almost as if you were here before.
Marc:So, look, someone told me that you have a show on television again.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:I may as well plug it while I'm here, right?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, go ahead.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I mean, while I'm here, you know, I don't like to plug.
Guest:Like, I like to talk.
Guest:Sure, you just talk and pretend like you're not plugging.
Guest:Since I'm here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's called Children's Hospital.
Guest:I knew that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's on Adult Swim.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:12 at night.
Guest:12.
Marc:thursday night i don't like to say midnight because people might i'm tired think it's a oh it's exhausting yeah 12 at night sounds so much earlier yeah 12 at night that's more like me yeah midnight i'm tired sleeping so so wait now uh how many did you do we did uh 14 and uh who are the exciting uh people on the shows because it's a hilarious show and i i think i saw coming attractions for it is that possible yeah and they looked funny
Guest:It's a really funny.
Guest:Blood Drive, the Blood Drive one.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah, it's really funny.
Marc:But usually everyone I know but me is involved in it.
Marc:We've called you.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:Yeah, we've called you.
Guest:But you call me like, yeah, that's true.
Guest:But I want to do the next one.
Guest:We probably always call you a little bit.
Guest:It's always like too late.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Oh, we're shooting your scene.
Guest:Mark, 10 minutes from now, what are you doing?
Guest:We're shooting a scene with you in it.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Can you get here?
Marc:That's the way it happens.
Marc:Well, that's the way show business happens.
Marc:I'm sorry I wasn't available for that.
Guest:It's tough.
Guest:We have good guest stars this season, but nothing that's mind-blowing because we're more into... I mean, there's such a great cast that we... Well, we did this episode that...
Guest:I believe it's seventh in the lineup.
Guest:It's an all-British cast.
Guest:It's the British version of the hit long-running American show, Children's Hospital.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:So we've got a lot of people, a lot of ringers in that one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're all definitely like departures this season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We've definitely sort of...
Guest:There's a lot of weird ones.
Guest:There's one called Chief's Origins.
Guest:You find out what happened to Megan Mullally to make her so handicapped over the years.
Guest:So it's like flashbacks to her life.
Guest:There's an episode.
Guest:Airborne Amnesia is our first one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And everybody gets amnesia.
Guest:It's an airborne amnesia virus.
Guest:I become king of the hospital because clowns can't get amnesia, of course.
Yeah.
Guest:I didn't know that.
Guest:The line is something like, clowns can't get amnesia, though we would like to forget Cirque du Soleil.
Guest:And we've got a lot of episodes.
Guest:With a lot of stories.
Guest:A lot of great ones.
Guest:A lot of good stories.
Guest:Oh, there's a behind the scenes one, you know, because we have a whole sort of, I'm obsessed with mythology, the mythology of the show.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I could care less about mythology in real life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mostly just like the geeky comic book version of like, this character used to be this.
Guest:And then he spilled something on himself.
Guest:Yeah, it sent him into a parallel universe.
Guest:I play Blake Downs.
Guest:I play Cutter Spindell, who plays Blake Downs on the show Children's Hospital.
Guest:So we're doing another...
Guest:sort of, we're doing another Newsreaders episode, which is our sort of behind the scenes, a news show called Newsreaders.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Does a report on Children's Hospital.
Guest:And also, that's our new spinoff.
Guest:We just ended up, but we just finished, just wrapped shooting that show.
Guest:You did, there's a spinoff to Children's Hospital?
Marc:A spinoff, yeah.
Marc:Did you have any idea, though, like, I mean, because I talked to you when maybe it was season two of this.
Guest:It was.
Marc:Right, so now you really have to go, I don't think you had any intention to build backstory or anything else.
Guest:You're like, let's just have a good time, and now it's-
Guest:Backstory, I was always obsessed with backstory just because it's fun for me.
Guest:But no, you're right.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I was like, oh, you know what?
Guest:I should probably start writing real stories and actually develop these characters because we were just nominated for an Emmy.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This has become a thing that I'm no longer doing just because...
Guest:I didn't realize that you got nominated for an Emmy.
Guest:When are the Emmys?
Guest:Yeah, the 23rd, September 23rd.
Guest:Well, that's fucking exciting.
Guest:It's really exciting, yeah.
Guest:I'm pretty giddy about it.
Guest:What category?
Guest:Just comedy?
Guest:This is almost as exciting.
Guest:They've created a new category called short format live action comedy.
Guest:I believe.
Guest:And it's in the main Emmys.
Marc:Well, is that just to accommodate Adult Swim?
Guest:So are they all Adult Swim?
Guest:I know, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think Tenacious D from the 90s, their show at HBO is nominated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, there's like web series nominated.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And yeah, 15, like there's not a lot.
Guest:But it's great that they're saying like, oh, this is something viable.
Guest:This is something we respect and realize.
Marc:It seems to still be here.
Guest:We better reckon with it.
Guest:You people aren't going away.
Guest:Making it shorter.
Guest:We got to acknowledge it.
Guest:Proving that 22 minutes is just too long.
Marc:Too long for anybody to watch anything.
Marc:We get it.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you came by.
Marc:I think it made it all worthwhile.
Marc:But you can finish your coffee.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Marc:I'm going to.
Marc:I'm not going to be like.
Marc:Get out.
Marc:Let's get to the odd and wonderful.
Marc:Brett Gelman now.
Marc:Can we do that?
Marc:I love this guy.
Guest:People don't value enough the craft of using one's voice.
Guest:I believe that's true.
Guest:I think you're right.
Guest:Of course you do.
Guest:I mean, you and I, we both are very much about what our voice does with the words.
Marc:I'm with you, Brett Gelman.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Brett, but you have one of those deep voices.
Marc:I think I would call you a classic.
Marc:I'm going to call you a classic Jewish tenor.
Guest:I probably am, yeah.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Jewish bass, baritone tenor, whatever.
Marc:As if that's really a category.
Guest:Jewish tenor.
Guest:It probably, I mean, it should be.
Marc:Maybe in the Yiddish theater.
Marc:Do you ever study Yiddish theater, Brett?
Guest:I, I've not extensively studied the Yiddish theater, but a cousin of mine told me that I was a relative of Shalom Aleichem.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Aren't we all?
Guest:I think we are.
Guest:In one way or another.
Marc:That sounds like one of those things where it's like, my grandmother used to live next to Barbra Streisand's mother.
Marc:Remember, for years, any middle class Jew had a relative who lived either next to Barbra Streisand's mother or Barry Manilow's mother.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You come from Chicago Jews, right?
Marc:Chicago Jews, yeah.
Guest:Pretty powerful.
Yeah.
Guest:Very, very intense Jews.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, in what way?
Marc:Because I come from Jersey Jews, and I have Long Island Jews in my family, but I do know some Chicago Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, a very vocal people, a very emotional people.
Yeah.
Guest:Not unlike your classic urban Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The urban Jew, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Should we pull up some pictures of the urban Jew?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Wait, Shala Malachim was a great writer, right?
Guest:Or a great performer, I believe.
Guest:Oh, was he a performer?
Guest:Yeah, a writer, performer type.
Guest:You know, I haven't studied...
Marc:Don't you want to go to the genealogy website?
Guest:I should.
Marc:Trace yourself back to Sean?
Guest:I'm so lazy about that shit.
Guest:I shouldn't be.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:You're a musical guy, and I'm a big fan of the Cats musical.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:And what was that called exactly?
Guest:It was called 1,000 Cats.
Marc:Right, of course.
Marc:And we did some music from it.
Marc:I had you sing a song on the live podcast, and I ended up watching the entire 1,000 Cats.
Marc:Now-
Guest:as a comedic performer what is it about musicals i i mean did you were you a guy who did that well i mean i guess technically in a way the thing that made me want to become a comedian when i was six years old was a musical was a night at the opera and even though they're not really singing that much in it marx brothers yeah i mean they're the reason it wasn't the the pretty people that they would so you're a marx brothers guy i'm a huge marx brothers guy
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, would your grandfather turn you on to that?
Marc:How'd you come?
Marc:I mean, because that's like another generation's comedy in a way.
Marc:And there's not very many people.
Marc:You're younger than me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I watched the Marx Brothers, but I didn't lock in with the Marx Brothers.
Marc:But that was like my father's generation when they were kids.
Marc:Someone must have turned you on to it.
Guest:It was like a godsend before the whole childhood fully went to shit.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I became this little weirdo.
Guest:Was that on a TV station?
Guest:Maybe it's the reason I became a weirdo, though.
Guest:Was it a TV station in Chicago?
Guest:My uncle, I think, told me about it.
Guest:I mean, I was so young.
Guest:I think he mentioned them or was doing a line from one of their movies or something like that.
Guest:And I was like, oh, what's that?
Guest:What's that?
Guest:And he's like, oh, that's these guys, the Marx Brothers.
Guest:They made movies years ago.
Guest:You should look at them.
Guest:In those days, we would rent movies from the library.
Guest:Really?
Guest:From the library, the public library.
Guest:On Betamax or movie movies?
Guest:No, VHS.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But still somewhat in the early days of VHSs.
Guest:And I was born in 76.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I was bar mitzvahed in 76.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I did an impression of Groucho Marx when I was a young man.
Marc:You were.
Marc:You did.
Marc:But it's weird, because I don't remember being a huge Marx Brothers fan, but I was sort of fascinated with Groucho Marx.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, obviously, I didn't understand the jokes.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I was six years old.
Marc:How deep were the Marx Brothers?
Marc:I mean, I know they work on many levels, and he's very sophisticated, but I mean, still there's enough physical humor to placate a six-year-old.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The physical humor I loved.
Guest:And then just the sound of Groucho Marx's voice and how Groucho Marx looked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's probably the closest I'll ever get to having a religious experience.
Guest:You were a Marxist?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:I was a Marxist.
Guest:It's perfect.
Guest:You look at him.
Guest:I mean, he's arguably the greatest comedian of all time.
Guest:I think that's true.
Guest:In terms of...
Marc:I feel like I want to do more research into Groucho Marx.
Marc:I've got books.
Marc:I've got Groucho Speaks, and I've got another book, and I had the script to Duck.
Marc:I had a book called Duck Soup when I was a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you have that book?
Guest:Which was all the movies?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:It was a yellow cover.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I had that.
Marc:It was like three Marx Brothers movies, the scripts to them, I think, or something.
Guest:I brought that at Show and Tell, and all the kids were like, what the fuck is this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it had that caricature of Groucho on the cover, right?
Guest:Yeah, of all three of them on the cover.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I had that book.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Did you have mine?
Marc:Where's mine?
Marc:Did you take mine?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think I don't have mine.
Marc:I don't have mine.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I have a lot of books from that era.
Marc:I mean, I still have books from that era, but I don't have that book.
Guest:I'm sure we could get it on eBay or Amazon or something.
Marc:So where did you, like, what kind of family did you grow up in?
Marc:What was your dad?
Guest:My father, he, salesman.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Line rep for photographic equipment.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So he would basically, like, he represented Canon or Nikon, and he would go around to the stores.
Guest:He was an amazing salesman.
Guest:Willie Loman.
Guest:Willie Loman.
Guest:But more successful.
Guest:I, uh...
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not quite as insane.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:And to my knowledge, no affairs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:OK.
Guest:Maybe there's a wrong analogy.
Guest:No, no, no dances with exhaust pipe fumes.
Guest:Good, good.
Guest:Right.
Marc:For some reason, Willie Loman, in my mind, I just took the salesman part.
Marc:I did not, in that moment, put it into context of the tragic nature of the play.
Marc:I was like, yeah, he's a salesman, like Willie Loman.
Marc:No, that has a lot deeper implications than a guy just selling something.
Guest:No, more like Russell Simmons.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:More like Russell Simmons.
Guest:That kind of salesman.
Guest:He dealt with hats.
Guest:A wheeler and dealer.
Marc:Yeah, a hustler.
Guest:No, but he loves making money.
Guest:That's why in retirement I think he has a bit of a rough time.
Guest:People are like, hey, do a hobby.
Guest:I'm like, he's got to get a hobby.
Guest:It's like, the guy loves making money.
Marc:Yeah, my dad's the same way.
Marc:It's not even about making money.
Marc:It's about working.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Period.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And my father went through this period where he tried to retire once before, and then he got a job at Walmart just to have something to do.
Marc:He actually became a postman for about a week and realized that however he had romanticized that was not really the... It wasn't like, hey, how you doing?
Marc:Here's your mail.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It was just horrendous trekking and...
Marc:so your dad's retired retired and just miserable he's uh you know he i wouldn't say he's miserable but i feel like he kind of doesn't know what to do with himself at times yeah i call my father i'm like what are you doing he's like nothing yeah and how's that going what am i gonna do i don't know there's a lot of things you could do
Guest:Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Guest:I mean, it's a real warning sign for us, right?
Guest:Is it?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Well, it's fortunate that we don't have a defined job, per se.
Marc:Those guys, they work to a certain point, they stash the cash, and then they said, I got enough to stop.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With us.
Marc:I mean, I think, you know, hopefully it won't be that, but we'll be clawing for the next job.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And I never know when I'm supposed to stop working.
Marc:I don't know what like I know I'm working, but what else are you supposed to do?
Marc:It's just an ongoing thing.
Marc:And with social networking, it never stops.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a job.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is that a job?
Guest:Please tell me it's a job.
Guest:It's part of our job, right?
Guest:It is part of a job.
Guest:It is part of our job.
Marc:It's not a compulsive behavior that we do to feel better.
Guest:It is that too.
Guest:It is that too, unfortunately.
Guest:It's pretty much the worst invention ever for somebody like us because- You mean needy people?
Guest:Yeah, it promotes and justifies our own narcissism.
Guest:Oh, God, man.
Guest:Just like, oh, man.
Marc:If there's ever a lonely moment, just tweet that.
Marc:Lonely moment, hashtag help me.
Guest:You could have a whole branch of therapy dedicated to trying to balance how much we check our mentions on Twitter.
Marc:Yeah, I'm a compulsive refresher of mentions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Awful.
Guest:I've gotten better with it in the last month.
Marc:You know what's happening to me is I actually feel tapped out.
Marc:I'm literally doing half-hearted tweeting.
Marc:I'm not even engaged in it.
Marc:I've gotten to the point where I'm just tweeting things like, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, do we really need to respond to people?
Guest:No, we don't.
Marc:I don't do a lot of that.
Guest:We don't.
Marc:And I always respond to the worst of them.
Marc:Just people that are horrendous.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, I always just retweet hate.
Guest:Any hateful thing said about me, I retweet it.
Marc:Is that effectively disarm it?
Marc:I'm curious about that.
Guest:I don't even care.
Guest:It's only for me.
Guest:It's only just to let it go for me and to...
Marc:I know that people do that.
Marc:We treat the hate like, you know, I'll just turn it back on them.
Marc:But sometimes I wonder.
Guest:Whenever I start getting into it with people, it becomes really ugly and strange.
Guest:And I get scared that the person's going to find me and kill me.
Marc:I don't know what the social networking thing is creating in people.
Marc:I do know my... I can lose a good half a day on Twitter, though.
Marc:You?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was.
Guest:I've gotten a lot better with it.
Marc:Did you go to some support situation?
Guest:No, I just, you know, I, well, actually, I got, whenever you start working, I feel like whenever I start really working on my craft of what I do, and I make it more about the work of what I do, then that kind of fades away a little bit more.
Marc:You don't have time.
Marc:Right, sure, sure.
Marc:You're meeting your needs elsewhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So where did you like how many first before I want to get the full Jewish family portrait?
Marc:How many siblings?
Guest:One younger sister.
Guest:But people constantly think that I am an only child.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because of your behavior?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Probably a very needy.
Guest:I'm a very needy person.
Guest:Not probably.
Guest:I am one.
Marc:Is that an only child thing?
Marc:I thought only children were sort of insulated and hyper imaginative and sort of preoccupied with themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have that.
Guest:I'm very hyper imaginative and my own world.
Marc:Just inventing things for you to entertain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These are my friends that I made up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just like dreaming about the future constantly.
Guest:And when I was going to get out of the prison of where I was in and shit like that.
Marc:What's your sister do?
Guest:My sister is a speech pathologist.
Guest:And you speak very well.
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I'm trained.
Guest:You are?
Guest:I learned to, yeah, I went to a classical training program.
Guest:You did not.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I studied Shakespeare.
Guest:I studied Chekhov.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And Death of a Salesman.
Guest:Took extensive voice classes.
Guest:Death of a Salesman, Arthur Miller, yeah.
Marc:Where was this?
Guest:It was at North Carolina School of the Arts.
Marc:Isn't that where McBride went?
Guest:That's where McBride and Jody Hill and David Gordon Green went.
Guest:They were in film.
Guest:And were you there at the same time?
Guest:Yeah, we were contemporaries.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like your use of that word.
Guest:I had McBride in here.
Guest:That's so really pretentious.
Guest:We were contemporaries at the university.
Marc:a fucking asshole you should say at university yeah at university uh yeah danny's a great those guys are great guys right he was a great guy yeah you know and you so much want him to be kind of a dick because this character is sort of an endearing dick but he's just a sweet guy yeah he's couldn't be more uh happy about what's happened for him yeah and it sort of came around the side really i mean he didn't have any real intention of being an actor it's so nice when people you like and respect do well did you know him then
Guest:I did.
Guest:He actually wanted me to be in his senior thesis film, which was like a superhero movie.
Guest:He wanted to be a director.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he did a lot of acting, I think, in school.
Guest:I could be wrong, but I think like, well, the drama, it was just so stupid.
Guest:The filmmakers and the actors, the drama people were totally...
Guest:We got totally alienated from them, and the drama school just wanted to own us and be like, yeah, you'll do film later.
Guest:Just concentrate on theater.
Guest:They wouldn't let me do his film because I was in a play, and I was like, well, I feel like I could find the time to do both.
Marc:But this school, what is it, North Carolina University?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, School of the Arts.
Guest:School of the Arts.
Marc:I mean, it's sort of a newish school.
Marc:I got the feeling that was a newer program.
Guest:The film program was way newer.
Marc:And is it a respected thing?
Marc:I mean, did you apply to Juilliard and do the whole thing?
Guest:I didn't apply to Juilliard, and I didn't apply to Yale, but it's up there with those schools and with NYU grad.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:It's very respected.
Marc:I think BU is pretty good, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, there's a lot of great schools.
Guest:But the thing about growing up in Illinois is my high school just tried to get me to go to Illinois schools.
Guest:That's all they know about.
Guest:They don't really guide you and they don't give a shit about guiding actors.
Marc:So you went to a guidance counselor?
Guest:Not really.
Marc:No, I mean, I remember I was high.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:I completely fucked up in high school to my last year when when I panicked and I realized my parents have enough money to send me to college.
Marc:I need to get the fuck out of here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I sort of mustered up some sort of straight A thing the last year.
Marc:And then we scrambled to get me into a moron school.
Guest:Oh, I knew.
Guest:Well, I knew I was, you know, I'm an actor.
Guest:You know, I knew that.
Guest:And I was like, so like, fuck academics.
Guest:Fuck these people.
Guest:I'll educate myself.
Guest:These fucking teachers.
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, you're going to tell me what?
Guest:What?
Guest:I like wouldn't read the Scarlet Letter, but then I would get in an argument with the teacher about it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:I thought you were going to say, you're going to tell me what math is and why that's important?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, that too.
Guest:I had no interest in that.
Marc:Chemistry?
Guest:Couldn't do it.
Marc:Couldn't do it.
Marc:Just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
Guest:I know.
Marc:So did you almost flunk out?
Guest:I I didn't almost flunk out, but I definitely started doing pretty badly at one point.
Guest:I mean, I was stoned all day.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Every day.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Unbelievably high.
Guest:That's a that's a during lunch hour and and just a lot of times would just wake and bake, go to school.
Marc:You had some friends that were just stoners.
Guest:Oh, I hung out with, I mean, I was, I hung out like my last couple years of high school, just total criminals.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Total fucking drug dealers, all kicked out of school.
Guest:Your parents must have been thrilled.
Guest:Good Jewish boy.
Guest:They were really happy.
Guest:Up until like those last couple of years, I was a pretty good boy for the most part.
Marc:You seem like to me, I can't picture you.
Marc:I mean, I can because I'm the same way.
Marc:Like, you know, you got to, you know, cause, and I don't want to lean too heavy on the Jewish thing, but Jewish families are.
Marc:A nice little mensch.
Marc:Yeah, you're a mensch.
Guest:no they they did i mean my parents they did a good job you know i mean of course making you feel guilty for doing things yeah that's that's the jewish form of discipline it's like there's no discipline but for some reason you feel shame when like but i would tell my mother all the time whenever i did anything bad the first time i did acid i told my mother i did acid you did oh i couldn't handle like keeping it in my brain and keeping it from her and how'd she respond
Guest:Well, they were hippies.
Marc:Oh, so you had that sort of like, look.
Guest:Yeah, but they weren't like, I'm into you doing drugs now.
Marc:No, no, but they get it to a certain degree.
Marc:But did they turn on their hippie past or did they remain sort of faithful to it?
Guest:Half and half.
Guest:It depended on the day.
Marc:So you're saying that you had an open environment.
Marc:It wasn't like, don't do this.
Marc:It was like, if you do it and you need help, always call us.
Guest:It wasn't quite that either.
Guest:It wasn't like I'm going to throw you out of the house and it wasn't like, hey, let's talk about what you experienced during your trip.
Guest:It was like, all right, well, don't do that.
Guest:Don't do that.
Guest:It'll mess up your brain.
Guest:You know, our friend.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:The one friend.
Marc:He was a very smart kid.
Guest:He started calling people up as a computer.
Guest:We'd say, how was your day?
Guest:And he'd say, does not compute.
Guest:You don't want to end up like that guy.
Guest:The one guy.
Guest:The one guy.
Guest:There's always the one guy.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Well, maybe that guy was just fucking insane.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And acid tipped it off.
Marc:Right.
Marc:My family had the genius that went bad.
Marc:Brent, he was in Mensa.
Marc:And then he ended up making eggs.
Marc:That's what he did.
Marc:He made eggs and he was working on a book.
Marc:He was in Mensa.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, maybe you couldn't handle you guys bothering him all the time.
Marc:What's the genius doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's interesting, though.
Marc:So the last two years of high school, were you like, fuck you, mom and dad?
Guest:I was a little bit like that.
Guest:I was like, I'm not about this, all right?
Guest:Oh, my fucking heroes did drugs, you know?
Guest:I want to be like them.
Guest:Don't tell me.
Guest:But, you know, because I was... We have a lot in common.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who were those heroes?
Guest:The musical hero?
Guest:Whoever they were.
Guest:Lenny Bruce and Eric Boghossian I was really into in high school.
Guest:I mean, early heroes, you know, it was the Marx Brothers and Mel Brooks.
Guest:Well, yeah, yeah, but when the drugs came.
Guest:But then, you know, pretty much as soon as I got into those guys, I got into the original cast of SNL.
Guest:I mean, I wore out that Best of John Belushi tape.
Guest:I mean, I just watched it over and over and over again.
Marc:He was a drug monster.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was a drug monster and I, and you know, and he's from Chicago and it was just like, Oh, I want to be him.
Guest:I want to, it just seems so romantic.
Marc:So did you have any of those moments when you're hanging out with your drug dealer friends where you're like, Oh man, over my head.
Guest:Oh, definitely.
Guest:No, it definitely, the, the romance a lot of the time was just like left the window is just replaced by anxiety.
Guest:But I was like constantly trying to convince myself that I was cool too, but I'm not cool.
Marc:No, there's that moment where you realize, like, I'm going to be that guy.
Marc:And then, like, somewhere a line blurs.
Marc:And you're like, I'm on the other side of this equation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm not sure that I want to be in this area.
Marc:I'm not sure how much control I have over this situation.
Guest:I went on Dead Tour.
Guest:I went on the last Dead Tour ever.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You went all out.
Guest:I went on a fucking blue school bus on Dead Tour.
Guest:You were a dead guy.
Guest:With, like, a hippie family.
Guest:That I was hanging out with all the time.
Guest:Where'd you find them?
Guest:They were like in the suburb.
Guest:I like, you know, somebody knew them that I was hanging out with.
Guest:And then I started going to their house every day after school, getting high, you know, like talking with their kids and shit.
Guest:They had a goat.
Guest:It was really strange.
Guest:They had a goat?
Guest:In a suburb of Chicago?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or like Highland Park?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was very weird.
Marc:They had a goat?
Guest:Yeah, they had a goat.
Marc:Did you just sit around and laugh at the goat or what?
Guest:I was amazed by the goat.
Yeah.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I wanted the goat.
Guest:I was like, this is great.
Guest:Having a goat?
Guest:That's fantastic.
Marc:Did you bring that resentment home where you're like, you know, they got a goat.
Marc:How come we don't have a goat, mom?
Guest:Well, I will say this.
Guest:My mother always knew that I was high when I came home.
Guest:I could never get it past her, and she would get very pissed off about that.
Marc:My family had that one breakdown where I was hanging out with a kid who had hippie parents and were smoking pot.
Marc:And there was that one meltdown on a family vacation where I told my parents, why can't you be more like Eric's parents?
Marc:And then there was that sort of like, why don't you go fucking live with Eric then?
Marc:Just this horrible confrontation in a hotel room.
Guest:oh yeah where all of us ended up crying on vacation i'm like i like you guys i'm sorry yeah i remember one time i like didn't drive my sister to basketball practice or something like that i was too high i forgot i was actually i think like buying weed probably and yeah a nearby suburb and i got back she's like yeah bring my my basketball practice and me and my sister had a pretty we're cooler now but we had a pretty volatile relationship when we were younger and i was just like fuck you fuck you
Guest:Like pulling out knives, like stab me.
Guest:Come on, stab me.
Guest:Stab me, you fucking bitch.
Guest:I'm like, I'm out of here.
Guest:I'm out of here.
Guest:And I got in my car and I fucking backed up through the garage door.
Guest:That was not a good day.
Guest:That was not something that could be hidden from the peas when they got home.
Guest:They were not happy with me.
Guest:Yeah, that's a good one, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You took a knife out to have her stab you.
Guest:Oh, we're always taking out knives and pencils.
Guest:Really?
Guest:We never did anything.
Marc:But I like the idea that it wasn't to assault, but it was to offer it to somebody to assault you.
Marc:That's so revealing about somebody's sense of self.
Marc:Here's the knife.
Marc:Cut me.
Marc:Cut me.
Marc:I'm an asshole.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then the drama of like, I'm out of here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That is Marx Brothers.
Marc:You are very honest to your heroes.
Marc:Just threw that thing right in reverse and plowed it into the house.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That's what it's all about.
Guest:Slapstick, baby.
Guest:I mean, that's how they were deep because they embodied life's chaos.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:They were pretty balanced.
Marc:I think I got a book by Harpo's kid.
Marc:His son wrote a book.
Marc:I don't know where it is.
Marc:I didn't follow up with that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So here you are fucked up.
Marc:How'd you make it into college?
Guest:I auditioned and they liked, you know, I still I didn't do any theater in high school.
Guest:Oh, no, I did a lot of theater in high school.
Guest:Oh, you did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think, though, at a certain point, the theater department there thought I was like a bad influence and a drug addict and stuff like that.
Guest:So they would only cast me in things that absolutely nobody else could be cast in.
Guest:You know, I would do the best.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it was just pot, though?
Marc:No booze?
Marc:Drugs?
Guest:It was mostly weed.
Guest:It was mostly weed.
Guest:I did not get into booze until college, really.
Guest:Yeah, well, you have to then.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the transition.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:You have to keep adding things as you get older, and then hopefully- And then, you know, conservatory, you know, you have a lot of shit that you start facing.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:You start doing Alexander Technique and all the fucking- Digging deep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, all that body tension goes right to your brain and starts presenting itself in the form of horrible depression.
Guest:You know, really numb that out.
Guest:Yeah, I got I will get into that.
Marc:So when you were in high school, like, is that where the musicals did you do musicals?
Marc:I'm always fascinated with people that did musicals in high school.
Guest:Um, I was not in the musical.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, um, it wasn't really until college that I got more into musicals and I wouldn't say that I'm like a fully musical guy, but I do love, I do love musicals.
Guest:Like great musicals are fantastic.
Marc:What's your favorite ones?
Guest:I mean, I'd say, well, one of the best films ever made is Singing in the Rain.
Guest:I mean, that's just an incredible piece of art.
Marc:Okay, we're going to have to get to college in a minute.
Marc:So what plays did you do in high school where they needed the heavy?
Guest:I did Midsummer Night's Dream was my crowning achievement in high school.
Guest:I played bottom.
Guest:I brought the house down.
Guest:And then at the Midsummer Night's Dream cast party.
Guest:First of all, a lot of weed smokers in the cast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of weed smokers, but they were younger than me.
Guest:I was a senior.
Guest:That's a lot to wrap your head around Shakespeare and when you're high, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I wouldn't be high when I performed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I always kept the acting clean.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was just everything else.
Guest:Well, because the acting was enjoyable.
Guest:So what happened at the cast party?
Guest:So the cast party, fucking idiot who had the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He leads us into like the the water tank room, you know, like where the where the gas heater is in the basement, not knowing that there's a vent in there that leads throughout the whole house.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we were like smoking bong, taking bong hits and this thing.
Guest:And then his parents were home.
Guest:and went right into the room, and then it all got blamed on me.
Guest:Oh, you were the fall guy?
Guest:Yeah, and I'm not a rat.
Guest:I'm not going to say it was somebody else.
Guest:Good for you, man.
Guest:I took the fall.
Guest:Took the rap?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, good for you.
Guest:Yeah, and then people started thinking that I was a drug addict.
Marc:What did you use for your audition for North Carolina School of the Arts?
Guest:I did a monologue from Pasta, this play.
Guest:I had taken some summer program at Steppenwolf.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, who were the teachers?
Marc:Anybody we would know?
Guest:Martha Levy was one of the teachers.
Guest:I mean, she's not famous, but I saw her.
Guest:I remember seeing her in a play with Estelle Parsons.
Guest:She was also in the play who was Roseanne's mother.
Guest:Roseanne, brilliant.
Guest:And the thing about Roseanne is, like, she really did a great casting job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because those were all, like, intense, legendary theater actors, like, studied with Strasburg and stuff like that.
Marc:Was Goodman a Chicago guy?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I don't really totally know.
Guest:I mean, you know, he's a hero.
Guest:He's a great actor.
Guest:Yeah, he's amazing.
Marc:But Steppenwolf, I mean, they're known for, like, you know, pushing that edge and, you know, digging into the darkness.
Guest:So it was like this gangster monologue.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Talking about killing a rat.
Guest:It's great monologue.
Guest:And, uh, then I, Oh yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was also my interview.
Guest:I gave the most insane interview with them where I said that a spiritual rebel was not high.
Guest:I, but I mean, I probably was high the night before, but I was like, Oh, a spiritual revolution is coming.
Guest:You know, we're really all about to evolve.
Guest:And I really think that feeder can be the thing that helps us to evolve.
Guest:It was so full of shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Such a stupid, dumb, hippie idiot.
Guest:Did you believe a hippie and an actor?
Guest:What a terrible combination.
Guest:Did you believe it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Well, at times, you know, when I wasn't wrapped up in self-loathing, I thought that.
Guest:I mean, you know, did I really believe it or was I just using that thought as an escape?
Marc:No, I mean, I mean, that's that's on you.
Marc:But I mean, thanks.
Marc:You weren't just you weren't consciously bullshitting them with something.
Guest:No, no, I really believed that at the time.
Marc:So you were sort of immersed in the idea of what theater originally meant.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which was that it was a way to revel in human emotion in a controlled way with narrative arcs in a community setting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that it was like a proactive sort of life force of art.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and it is.
Guest:No, it is.
Guest:It is.
Marc:But it's very expensive and very few people go.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So what we've lost is- Unfortunately, that's the case right now.
Guest:Yeah, hopefully that changes.
Marc:Well, you sort of lost.
Marc:There was all the sort of ideology of the more populous theater in New York.
Marc:Who was involved with that?
Marc:I think Strasburg was involved with that.
Marc:Clifford Odets was involved with it.
Marc:It wasn't called the People's Theater.
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:The group theater.
Guest:The group theater.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was all very noble.
Marc:I want to believe that too.
Marc:And I think that at a time-
Marc:This was the one form of entertainment or of art that wasn't a spectacle, but it was meant to sort of reflect back at the audience.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, well, that's always been the case probably since any type of performance started.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Art and entertainment going head to head and then also meeting.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But you really, you got there and you're like, oh yeah.
Guest:Oh, I fucking, I just like went off on my, you know, I found a moment of shithead inspiration and just like went crazy.
Guest:And you did it, man.
Guest:You sealed the deal.
Guest:And then I walked out and they were like, oh, Elliot, Elliot.
Guest:And I turned around.
Guest:I was like, are you talking to me?
Guest:And they were like, oh, I'm sorry.
Guest:We were just talking about how much you look like Elliot Gould.
Guest:Can you come back in for a second?
Guest:And then we sat down there like, listen, we don't know who else you're meeting with, but we would love, you know, we really enjoyed your audition and especially your interview.
Guest:So we would love you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And do you do an L.A.
Guest:Gould impression?
Guest:I would do, you know, my old days at UCB, I would do Gould, but just be me acting like a total asshole.
Marc:Isn't it interesting that there was that time in the 70s where there were several Jewish leading men?
Guest:Yeah, but isn't it kind of like the way it is now, though, with Rogan and Jonah Hill?
Marc:Yeah, but I guess that's true.
Marc:But there was a period there.
Marc:But they're comedic leading men.
Marc:But you had Hoffman.
Marc:You had Ellie Gould.
Marc:You had James Caan.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You had... Maybe that's it.
Marc:Maybe I was really overstating it.
Guest:No, but it was really character-y guys.
Guest:I mean, even if you think of... They're not Jewish, but Nicholson and De Niro and Pacino, they're not necessarily model-looking guys.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:If they were playing different roles, you could be like, oh, that person's not attractive, but they just are such great actors that they were able to.
Marc:And the film industry was a lot more intimate.
Marc:Like, so the character actor, you even knew those guys like Ned Beatty.
Marc:And there was all those character actors in the 70s.
Marc:There's a lot of them now.
Marc:I mean, I guess you would call yourself a character actor, wouldn't you?
Marc:Yeah, I would say that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that I characterize myself as that.
Marc:So tell me about this training, because, you know, I only took theater classes and did some non theater school theater, which was always looked down upon.
Marc:But like I went to college with Mike Chiklis from from the shield.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I remember seeing him in a Brendan played Belushi.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In a career, a career daunting film.
Marc:that he almost didn't recover from i know but you know but i remember seeing him say no to that right no absolutely i remember seeing him in a brendan behan play you know as a graduate uh you know theater thing and he was great but uh i was always sort of fascinated with what people had to go through and i always wanted to do it but i was so lost i i didn't i couldn't commit to it but what is when you say you study shakespeare and alexander and speech like alexander technique what what the fuck is that
Guest:Alexander Technique is basically, I mean, he believed that our body, the full-on body-mind connection, and that in order to release tension, you merely had to think it gone.
Marc:Really?
Guest:How's that working out?
Guest:Well, I don't do it that much these days, so not very well.
Marc:I know a guy who's not even an actor.
Marc:He does it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's really good for you.
Guest:I mean, it's legit.
Marc:It works.
Marc:Okay, so you come into your undergraduate theater school with all this baggage.
Marc:You smoke a lot of weed.
Guest:I was a fucking mess.
Guest:I mean, the first two years, I was a mess, and the faculty would bring me into the office and be like, do you want to be an actor?
Guest:Why?
Guest:What were you doing?
Guest:Oh, after every class, I would go up to the...
Guest:It was so intense for me.
Guest:And I, I think I had just been in this confident haze, the state of ignorance.
Marc:Like I'm the dude, I'm the guy.
Marc:I just did.
Marc:So I'm like Steppenwolf.
Guest:You didn't do any Second City stuff?
Guest:No, I took classes in high school at Second City.
Marc:And also at Steppenwolf in the summer program.
Guest:And also at Steppenwolf.
Marc:So you were doing like improv a lot?
Guest:Yeah, I was doing some improv.
Marc:And then you'd go do the heavy shit.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, and I went to like theater summer camp and shit.
Guest:I mean, I was always doing stuff in some form.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But, you know, when you're a kid, it's so based on instinct and, you know, the talents that you have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, being terrible and everybody telling you that you're great just because you're fucking up there.
Marc:And also you're intense.
Marc:I mean, if you can hold the stage, a lot of times that's almost innate.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You can't explain that talent necessarily.
Guest:And I do this thing.
Guest:I'll do this thing whenever I'm presented with intense information or something intense.
Guest:I sometimes will...
Guest:throw away the talents that I already have and the knowledge about myself that I already have.
Guest:It's some sort of people-pleasing thing.
Guest:Well, you come off very lovable now.
Guest:I try to, yeah, but I can be an asshole.
Marc:I'm sure, but I mean, when I've seen you perform, whether it's comedy and even some of the film stuff, certainly A Thousand Cats, there's a vulnerability to it that you're willing to be sort of shameless about comedy, which just having that shamelessness has a lot of heart to it.
Guest:oh thanks thanks a lot yeah i mean you know i feel like that's what what we should do right is make people connect people with there are the flaws you know no i think so remember but you go with you go the you don't go the angry way or the you know like beat the shit out of yourself on stage way i can but it's an act somewhat but i'm also really doing it in a way you know it's well what do you struggle with i mean that that that never goes away
Guest:Oh, I mean, just, you know, I'm I'm not good.
Guest:I'm ugly.
Guest:Nobody likes me.
Guest:You know, all the classic stuff, you know, just check.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah, it's terrible.
Guest:I'm a fraud.
Guest:And just, you know, and.
Guest:And OCD, you know, just like that, that control of needing to know what's going to happen in our lives and how we're going to be.
Marc:Yeah, because like it's so easy to go negative on that one, isn't it?
Guest:It's so easy to go negative and so easy to go overly positive on it too.
Marc:You had like a little more of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With me, that doesn't, I don't go overly positive.
Marc:I just get cocky.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Guest:Cockiness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just be like, I mean, just the, just the illusion that there's some answer and some state of, okay, I'm fine now.
Guest:It's like, that's not what life is.
Guest:Life is a fucking, you know, just a living organism unto itself that is completely insane.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everything's out of your control.
Marc:And, you know, if you have a good day, you should make sure you're aware of it while it's happening.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's so hard.
Marc:How's this day?
Marc:All right.
Guest:It is good so far.
Guest:It's pretty good.
Guest:But it also has its bullshit to deal with, too.
Guest:There's always something lingering going on.
Guest:There's just always something like really crazy going on.
Guest:But there's also I mean, that's comforting in a way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, let's go over your credits because you've done a lot of stuff.
Marc:And I don't want to like you're a lot of people might not know you.
Marc:What was right?
Marc:What was it?
Marc:And that's not a negative thing.
Marc:Oh, no, no, no.
Marc:But it's true.
Marc:That's the bane of the character after.
Guest:Oh, I'm just laughing.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Hey, you're that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved you for that thing that you were in for four minutes.
Guest:Yeah, that was awesome.
Guest:So what was your first four-minute thing?
Guest:Well, my first, like...
Guest:Well, my first real job was being the face of the New York lottery.
Guest:That was my first true- I was in New York.
Marc:But you went to North Carolina.
Marc:You graduated with the theater degree.
Marc:You did your Shakespeare.
Marc:You did your Alexander.
Marc:Did you do some fencing?
Guest:Defense, stage combat, did phonetics, learning about dialects.
Marc:So you only had to take liberal arts courses as an elective, like a history of theater or something?
Guest:Yeah, you would take those and you'd fucking blow them off.
Guest:You'd learn more about the academic program.
Guest:At the time, I learned more academically from my acting teachers because they were constantly filling our minds with all these great thinkers and stuff.
Marc:That you went to college with that moved with you to New York?
Guest:John Daly.
Guest:John Daly was there for the first two years.
Guest:Come on now.
Guest:Come on now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Come on now.
Guest:He's been there before.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He was your guy?
Guest:You went to college with him?
Guest:Yeah, well, only for two years, and then he left after the first two years and went to New York.
Marc:Was he the guy that said, you got to come, man?
Guest:Well, he did.
Guest:Well, the whole thing is, though, they encourage at North Carolina, they encourage us all to go to New York because that's where theater was and is.
Marc:So what was your dream heading to New York?
Guest:Well, when I was, yeah, I thought I was going to go and be like a hugely successful character actor on Broadway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, just have Walter Matthau's career or Zero Mostel's career on Broadway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I got there and I did two scenes because you had to do the whole leagues, the presentation for all the agents and casting directors.
Marc:That's one of the benefits of going to theater school is you got that.
Marc:You got into that.
Guest:Yeah, technically, technically.
Guest:But I did.
Guest:It was just an audition for casting director.
Marc:Is that what it is?
Guest:Yeah, well, it was like the whole class, the whole class that I graduated with doing like two five minute scenes each.
Guest:And mine were from Last of the Red Hot Lovers and Angels in America.
Guest:And in both scenes, I played men in their 50s.
Marc:You played Roy Cohn.
Guest:And I played Roy Cohn's doctor.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And then I played last of the red hot lovers, this older man who's romancing all these different women.
Guest:And I got huge laughs, but they were like, well, you'll work when you're 50.
Guest:You know, that's how it's all these like old battle acts type of agents.
Guest:You'll grow into it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, OK.
Guest:And so when I was moving out there, John had already gotten involved with UCB.
Guest:So he's like, you got to check out this place, you know.
Guest:And I was like, well, well, if I have time, I'm going to be on Broadway.
Guest:So I don't know if I'll have time to get on down there.
Guest:But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It sounds cute.
Guest:That sounds cute.
Guest:I don't know what you kids are up to down there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I got involved and it was so great.
Guest:got involved.
Guest:I always was a writer of material.
Guest:I mean, even through college and in high school, I mean, in high school, I would do these terrible one man shows that were like Boghossian ass called like the dark claw and American alien, the dark claw.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was the dark claw of frustration.
Guest:So it was all, it was, it was horrible.
Guest:It was like, I was George Washington stoned, you know, arguing about, you know, complaining about, yeah.
Guest:And he was frustrated with how
Guest:laws were being nailed down and the the liberty of the country was being forgotten you know and being replaced by bureaucracy how long was this and uh it was like a half hour okay and the dark claw sigmund freud was like uh just totally misogynist you know women are cunts yeah you know oh so you threw the cunt around a little bit oh yeah like i loved throwing the cunt around in high school please i was a revolutionary that was in that was in high school you did the dark claw yeah
Guest:And then I did American Alien, which was all about alienated Americans.
Guest:And that was high school, too?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Your drug dealer.
Guest:It was all.
Marc:So in high school, you were confusing to the girls.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Oh, my God, man.
Guest:Those were high school projects.
Marc:So you hadn't even been sort of tempered by the broad scope of it.
Marc:You were like, these are my heroes, man.
Marc:I'm going to do this.
Guest:Oh, don't you?
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't even, I couldn't even, I didn't even think of myself really as a man until I was 24 years old.
Guest:What did you, where did you perform the Dark Claw?
Guest:In like the studio theater in the, in the high school.
Guest:I mean, it was like a good, a great theater department there.
Guest:Like for, it was, it was very respected.
Marc:So you were like the kid who wore an overcoat and...
Guest:I didn't wear an overcoat, but I definitely had, I did spiritually.
Guest:I did spiritually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was wearing an overcoat.
Marc:But you were like that.
Marc:Oh, there's Brett.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's doing.
Marc:Oh, he's such a brooding artist.
Guest:Oh, you were.
Guest:Oh, and everybody thought that I was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I hope he doesn't destroy himself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I can't even do it.
Guest:It totally played into my whole thing.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:It's so funny because I would never have thought that about you because I did that with photography.
Marc:I was always at the cutting edge of visual arts and in high school because I was hanging around by the college campus and I knew a lot of artists who were in college.
Marc:So I did this series of photographs that I still have over there involving mannequins and televisions.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, I was cutting edge doing some collage work.
Marc:You know, I did some stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wrote some poems.
Marc:Like I was a kid who in poetry class, we had an assignment to write poems.
Marc:I got really into it.
Marc:Mine were like, you know, Ginsburgian, heavy handed, like in the entire class, a sophomore in the entire class was like, what?
Marc:Like they never looked at me the same.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I wrote poetry.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can completely alienate your entire school with a good one man show or a couple of good poems.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Just read Howl once and suddenly we fully understand.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The whole world opens up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're already entering college with the dark claw under your belt.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:American Alien.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had some major works under my belt.
Guest:What was American Alien?
Guest:It was like Americans who are alienated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like a drug dealer.
Guest:Oh, so you're doing all the care.
Guest:Yeah, a serial killer, a cult leader.
Guest:You did a serial killer in high school?
Guest:And a sexually frustrated teenager.
Marc:That was probably all of it.
Guest:That was the more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the subtext.
Guest:It should have all just been called sexual frustration.
Guest:That should have just been my age.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm sexually frustrated.
Guest:Oh, OK.
Guest:I'm trying to picture you as a teenager doing a serial killer because you're all infused with the fact that you think you're pulling it off, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, I saw this interview with Ted Bundy.
Guest:He seemed like a totally normal guy.
Guest:So I was like this chipper guy talking about, you know, mutilating a college student or something like that.
Marc:Had you seen Boghian live at that point?
Guest:I had not.
Marc:Because I saw him a few times, actually.
Marc:I have once.
Marc:Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll, I saw.
Marc:I saw him workshop it, and then I saw him... Oh, wow.
Marc:But for me, as a comic, there was always part of me, because I started doing comedy pretty young, I was like 20 or 21, that I grew to believe that a lot of performance artists were just frustrated comics.
Marc:That there's only a few that could really do something that, to me, was elevated as theater.
Marc:And then again, I was being sort of...
Marc:I think the reason I thought that was I'd rarely seen one who wasn't trying to be funny.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, to his credit, I bet that performance artist label was probably laid upon him.
Guest:Well, I think he was there at the time.
Guest:He was probably just like, I'm a fucking guy doing character monologues.
Guest:This is what I do.
Guest:I can't do that in clubs, so I'm going to do it in theaters.
Marc:No, no, and I don't begrudge anybody for avoiding comedy clubs.
Marc:But I saw Spalding Gray do Swimming to Cambodia when I was in college at the Brattle Theater.
Marc:And that was when I really realized that this is a separate thing.
Marc:that you know that there there's an arc here there's something literary about it there's a controlled uh uh delivery yeah that has to be you know you can't do this at a where they're drinking yeah no no no and i was completely blown away by it oh i saw yeah i saw him do i forget the monster in a box no it wasn't one of the the it wasn't either of those shows it was a later show i saw him at the good goodman theater in chicago blew my mind it was yeah he was a fucking unbelievable
Guest:Just a guy sitting at a desk who could totally suck you in and make you a part of.
Marc:And he was a very controlled performer.
Marc:I mean, he was very deliberate.
Marc:He was very directed.
Marc:And sometimes he would sit there with the pages, flipping the pages, but he pretty much knew it.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's such a bummer.
Guest:Such a bummer.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No doubt.
Marc:No doubt.
Marc:Because I don't see a lot of people doing that type of work specifically anymore.
Marc:It's also been mocked.
Marc:I mean, even in the way you're talking about your conception as a high school student of a one person show.
Marc:Like I think Fred Armisen does.
Marc:Have you seen that brilliant one person show he does like that?
Marc:That mockery of the one person show where he plays it very straight and it's just this guy from Jersey and he's going through the all the actions of a one person show.
Guest:I think I saw the, did they do a sketch from that on SNL?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, it's so funny that he was so in tune with it because to me it became a satire of the idea that anybody at certain points like that, that frustrated actors who do the one man show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They don't embrace the theatricality of it.
Marc:They just like, I must have a one man show in me.
Guest:Well, they're doing it because they're like, I need to do a one man show.
Guest:I should do one.
Guest:I'd be great.
Guest:They're not like saying like, oh, what is the one man show really about?
Guest:Right.
Guest:They're not really going into that.
Guest:It stays at this ego place.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:So it's shit.
Guest:It's like total shit.
Yeah.
Guest:which is i think the place that we all start at because that's there's a reason why we're doing this i did i did a couple i did the jerusalem yeah no i mean i think that i i met you you would not remember this you were around the first time i met you and it was it was in that that theater though you were doing it in that theater that was um no it was upstairs yeah that kirsten ames
Guest:Not a 45.
Guest:Not a 45.
Guest:Yeah, I did a play there.
Guest:This little play there, and I think we were going on after you.
Guest:Can you believe that that's what we used to do?
Guest:We used to play places like that?
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:Thinking back on it, I'm happy I have that.
Marc:I'm happy that I have that in my history that, you know, cause that was, you know, they were coming out of her and what was his name?
Marc:The other guy that was in it with her, the dude from Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:John, was it John?
Marc:I can't remember his name, but you know, they were like, we're, we're doing this organic kind of theater thing.
Marc:We know we've got a space and we want to encourage performers.
Marc:And like, I don't, I guess I'm sure it still exists, but I, I look back on that, like,
Guest:That was a good time.
Marc:Well, it was an interesting time.
Marc:Like it was, you really felt like you're developing something in a real place under the radar and this is the way you do it.
Marc:There was no other way to do it.
Marc:And I was like rambling on for two and a half hours some nights, you know, trying to put that show into context and trying to get it wrangled because I really wanted to do a one man show.
Marc:Yeah, that was a very successful one-man show.
Marc:It did okay.
Marc:I mean, we ran for six weeks off-Broadway.
Guest:People loved it.
Marc:Yeah, people liked it.
Marc:It didn't tour, because I think in my mind, it was like, I'm doing a very personal but funny piece, and we should tour with it.
Marc:But I did it at a few Jewish community centers, and that was...
Guest:I performed 1000 cats at the Holocaust Museum.
Marc:No, you did not.
Guest:I did.
Guest:It's like part of this Jewish night, like Jewish entertainers night.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I bombed so hard.
Guest:What was the audience off the stage?
Guest:So you had all these Jews who are like, what?
Guest:What's this fucking guy doing up here?
Guest:Like going insane.
Marc:But they were trying to showcase comedians?
Marc:I mean, was it old Jews?
Guest:I was like the Jewish, up-and-coming Jewish comedian.
Guest:Yeah, they wanted Kristen Scholl, but they realized she's not Jewish.
Guest:So I'm like, okay, well, I'll definitely be as... Well, actually, Kristen totally makes people feel uncomfortable at times, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very creative.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Envelope pushing...
Marc:Well, her monologues are great.
Guest:Oh, she's the best.
Guest:Well, there's that group of you guys.
Marc:I meant that fully as a compliment.
Marc:But there's that group of you guys that were not stand-ups, but you were doing something, and it wasn't like sketch comedy, but you were theatrically trained to create these...
Marc:These pieces that I was always pretty impressed with that.
Marc:Yeah, because Shaw, when you see her do a piece, I think she did something with cupcakes in my vague recollection.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And and it was I like, you know, thought out pieces that can't be called sketch comedy, but it really sort of performance art pieces.
Guest:That's what I you know, now I when I do shows, it's a little a little looser, maybe.
Guest:And it's kind of what I mean, I guess I'm nowadays more assimilating a nervous breakdown.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, making the crowd feel like, oh, he's with us.
Guest:Oh, he's is he going to hurt us?
Guest:Oh, no, he's cool again.
Guest:You know, but what was the play you were doing?
Marc:Not a 45.
Marc:That's when I met you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And did we do Luna?
Marc:Didn't you want you around for Luna?
Guest:I did like I would come into Luna.
Guest:I was always incredibly freaked out of my mind, you know, because I looked up so much doll.
Guest:You guys.
Guest:Yeah, I was just like, oh, God.
Guest:And I wasn't really doing stand up type places yet.
Guest:You know, I was mostly just doing improv and sketch at UCB at that time.
Marc:And you were involved with Human Giant.
Guest:i know no i mean i me and john went in for a day to write for them and then i was in a sketch and then i did their 24 hour marathon right that they did uh but other than that i wasn't involved at all with human giant what were some of the first sort of uh breaks for you professionally yeah well uh financially was the lotto well you were the guy the lotto i was a little like a little guy it was a regional campaign
Guest:Yeah, it was like David Lynch and the Waynes brothers came up with a campaign.
Guest:They did?
Guest:No, but it was like that because I looked so weird.
Marc:And how many spots did you do?
Guest:I did like four, and it totally saved my ass.
Guest:I was broke.
Marc:You were in a suit, right?
Guest:Yeah, and they shrunk me down, and I had like a shaved head and Coke bottle glasses.
Guest:I was everywhere.
Guest:I was everywhere.
Guest:Oh, wait, that was you?
Guest:That was me.
Guest:I'm a little bit of luck.
Guest:The weird little man?
Guest:The weird little man.
Guest:That was you?
Guest:That was me.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:horrible right no i always wondered who that guy was like the l train depressed out of my mind i look at one of the posters i'd be like your face i'm gonna fucking kill myself but what do you mean it was a gift no one could ever recognize totally great no but i don't i didn't know that was you but i know those commercials no and i did the best i could i mean i'm not ashamed of it really
Marc:God, it's the best of both worlds.
Marc:You do a commercial campaign, you make a few bucks, and no one could ever fucking know it was you.
Guest:Yeah, and it was only on the East Coast, and it was fine.
Guest:So, yeah, and I needed that money so bad.
Marc:That's hilarious that that was you.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good memory, and I met my girlfriend on the set of the second round of commercials.
Guest:Yeah, she dressed me in the outfit.
Marc:Oh, she wasn't attracted to the man.
Guest:She was not attracted to me at first.
Guest:I was not her type.
Marc:That guy looked so much smaller than you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, they shrunk me down and enlarged my head a little bit, which is surprising to me because I have a gigantic head.
Marc:I can't believe that was you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's such a weird thing.
Guest:But I guess my big thing was 1,000 Cats.
Guest:I mean, they were starting to put together... Funny or Die was starting to put together...
Guest:their HBO show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they brought in Jason Walner, who guy behind human giant and Eagle heart.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But Eagle heart hadn't started yet, but, uh, they were like, yeah, we want you to do something.
Guest:What, what's the kind of stuff that you want to do?
Guest:And he was like, well, one of the things I want to do is this musical that Brett Gelman does called 1000 cats.
Guest:So then Andrew Steele, who's the head of FOD came in, saw it.
Guest:He was like, I love this.
Guest:Um,
Guest:And then and then McKay came and then greenlit it.
Guest:So that was my first thing that I did where I was like, OK, this is real.
Guest:It's on television.
Guest:It's, you know, a true, true expression of what I do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was it was a big acting job, too.
Guest:You know, even though.
Marc:And you ran the live show a couple of times, right?
Guest:Oh, the live show I had been doing on and off for eight years.
Yeah.
Guest:for eight years I mean I took like a four year break and the plot is basically it's it's like it's this heavy handed thing about human human metaphor for human evolution I'm in a black unitard and cat ears and
Guest:And I have this whole backstory of the guy.
Guest:So, like, what the guy's going through, I'm not saying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I'm trying to reveal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that, I feel, is why it's a good, why I'm proud of it.
Marc:And you did it with cats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's why I'm proud of it, that there's something going on with that character and it wasn't just some winky, stupid shit.
Guest:Because if I would have done that not in earnest and not with, like, this is a person, it would have been horrible.
Marc:Well, I think that's why that thing is so compelling, is that it's not just some sort of shallow riff on musical comedy.
Guest:Well, thanks, yeah.
Guest:No, it's a guy having a nervous breakdown who thinks that, like, he's helping the world by doing that, and he's not.
Guest:It's a true tragedy.
Guest:It's a true tragedy.
Marc:And this is his life's work.
Guest:This is his life's work.
Guest:It's his opus.
Guest:It's so sad.
Guest:It's so awful.
Guest:So sad.
Marc:But that led to the parts and the other guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And got you in with the McKay crew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were I mean, they've been so great.
Marc:This is what the second season of Eagle Heart or third?
Guest:Yeah, I've been lucky to work with people like Will Ferrell and Chris Elliott and Larry David.
Guest:I mean, just like heroes of mine.
Guest:It's amazing, right?
Guest:How many episodes of Curve did you get?
Guest:Just one.
Guest:Just one.
Marc:But, I mean, it was... And was it just a general casting or were you requested?
Guest:I think I was requested.
Guest:I think I think, you know, I don't know who it was.
Guest:I think it was Garland had a big part in that.
Guest:And then maybe Jeff Schaefer, who is one of the main writers.
Guest:And Eagle Hearts on Adult Swim.
Guest:And.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eagle Hearts on Adult Swim.
Guest:And that was all Jason.
Guest:That was Walner because Walner is the.
Guest:Why don't you give.
Marc:What's the premise?
Guest:I would say that Eagle Heart is Walker, Texas Ranger meets Get a Life.
Guest:If you did Walker, Texas Ranger, you took out Chuck Norris and you put in Chris Elliott.
Guest:That's what you have.
Guest:But it's also a completely surrealist, insane story, you know, story driven show.
Marc:What do you think is how do you make something like that?
Marc:Because I'm a guy like I need, you know, to be grounded in somewhat human events and emotions now.
Marc:And I know that you're pretty competent at that.
Marc:Very confident at doing surreal things and doing absurd things.
Marc:But what determines the success of something that doesn't necessarily make sense?
Guest:Well, to me, I feel like, you know, no matter how surreal something is, you have to look at humanly what's going on, you know, and there's different styles, you know, certain things are bigger and less naturalistic.
Guest:But.
Guest:That's just style.
Marc:So you're saying you've got to play it straight?
Guest:Yeah, or play it straight and definitely think about, for me, and a lot of people would disagree with me on this, but how I approach it is what's going on with this character.
Guest:No matter how stupid or insane this character is, what do they want?
Marc:So you have to infuse a life into it.
Guest:Yeah, I think, or else it's going to be just hokey, dumb bullshit.
Guest:And I think that that's a problem with a lot of bad...
Guest:surrealist or absurdist stuff is that you see the difference.
Guest:You feel the difference.
Marc:It's a fine line between something that is realized and works that may not make sense and something that people are just sort of like, hey, anybody can do this.
Marc:Because it's a combination of talent and sort of depth to the performance or direction, but it is a fine line.
Guest:It's a very fine line.
Marc:Because there's real shit with that stuff and a lot of it.
Marc:And then there's stuff that's sort of like, how the fuck does that even work?
Guest:I know.
Marc:And it's just by virtue of the comedic performances, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that you, that people infuse it.
Marc:And I mean, you know, Chris does a different thing with that, you know, but, uh, he's also like, there's just some innately amazing comedic performers or performers.
Marc:I mean, it's nothing, you can't explain it necessarily.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, he was at this panel with him.
Guest:We were doing an Eagle Heart panel, and they asked him what an influence his father was on him.
Guest:He was like, yeah, my father always made fun of show business, and that's what I've been about, too.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, that's so amazing.
Guest:All those roles and all the things that he's done, it's all making fun of show business.
Guest:So it's like, that's brilliant.
Guest:So he's basically, you know, whatever character he's playing, he is playing that one character that's just like, can you believe that you're watching this right now?
Guest:You know, and that's just why I, one of the reasons he's so brilliant.
Guest:He's also, I mean, you know, he's the funniest.
Guest:He's very funny.
Guest:The funniest.
Marc:So let's talk about this WTF musical that we had.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:I mean, did you come up with that?
Marc:Did you do something on your podcast?
Marc:Did you interview yourself or my assistant was saying that you did sort of a tribute to podcasts?
Guest:Oh, when I interviewed myself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was.
Marc:Well, your podcast is like a concept album, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's why I've had to slow it down a little bit.
Guest:I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm not getting anything else done.
Guest:I'm doing a fucking comedy album every week.
Guest:What the fuck is wrong with me?
Guest:I can't do anything else if I do that.
Marc:So what is your schedule now, monthly?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I think it's going to be more monthly and just when I can do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, I saw something that I thought was very funny where somebody interviewed themselves.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I thought, I was like, that is so funny.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:It was Donald Glover interviewing himself on Rollingstone.com.
Guest:And so I thought that was really funny.
Guest:And I thought the interview was funny.
Guest:I just was like, okay, well, put that through my perspective.
Guest:Because I'm so often playing an asshole on the show.
Guest:And that's just my own narcissism and my own putting out, commenting on my own flaws.
Guest:Yeah, do psychoanalysis.
Marc:It's a straight up psychoanalysis.
Guest:I do over the phone, over the phone.
Guest:Cause you got a guy in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, you know, the guy already knows me and I feel like it's worth it.
Guest:I mean, I don't look at him anyway when I'm there.
Guest:So it's so weekly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You do a session weekly over the phone.
Guest:I do.
Marc:I've done phone sessions, and at some point I'm like, this is fucking ridiculous.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what do you get back from it?
Marc:I mean, do you find that it gets you, like his energy pulls you into a certain groove where you speak from a different place?
Guest:I think I've gotten better at free associating and really just letting whatever.
Guest:I mean, he doesn't say do that, and he doesn't lead me through any type of method, but...
Guest:We know.
Guest:We know what that is.
Marc:Well, what's the feedback then?
Marc:How do you know that you're making progress?
Guest:Well, I said, I go, well, what does psychoanalysis actually do?
Guest:And he said, I mean, in free associating and finding all of the subconscious meanings and a lot of the things that you do, certain synapses that are not connected in your brain start to connect.
Hmm.
Guest:And I mean, I really think that any type of great thing that we do for ourselves is an act of faith to a certain degree.
Marc:Well, I think that I think I'm finding that true in the sense of like even speaking freely on stage or on a microphone or when I talk by myself that my my clarity has changed.
Marc:And my follow through with ideas when I'm in conversation has changed.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I think that's probably true.
Marc:And I think that everything around us is probably annihilating that those synaptic connections because everything is so immediate.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And designed that way.
Guest:I also.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that for me.
Guest:There's always a part of me that is trying to check out of life, you know, and just be on the fucking couch watching TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just like this is all, you know, basically death.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Living like I'm dead.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then, you know, we do these things to enter into life.
Guest:And when we do, we feel like, oh, why am I not doing this all the time?
Guest:This is so rewarding.
Guest:And exhausting.
Guest:And it's exhausting.
Guest:Oh, that's why.
Guest:Oh, let me go back to the couch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:I'm drained.
Marc:I can only take so much of this good thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I feel like we get more of a stamina the more that we do it.
Guest:But it is a muscle.
Marc:No, I think that's true.
Marc:It's a muscle to get out of your head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Actually living in our lives is a muscle.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Strange.
Marc:You would think it wouldn't be.
Marc:But I think if you're wired a certain way, it definitely is.
Guest:Self-honest, you know, honesty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you don't really know who it's weird because even as I do this and when I talk to people in here, it's hard to know who you are if you're just sitting around thinking about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not until you sort of surprise yourself in interaction or you do a nice thing for somebody or, you know, you're there for somebody.
Marc:You listen to somebody that you're like, oh, I'm a person functioning as a person.
Marc:You're not just sitting there going, am I a good person?
Marc:I don't know if I'm a good person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's crazy.
Guest:I mean, and I think we're also, yeah, we also can be bad people too.
Guest:And we have that in us, you know, that's why.
Marc:That's why we have to get out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And hopefully not kill people.
Guest:Right.
Marc:We have to challenge our bad self.
Guest:We have to challenge our bad self.
Guest:We have to recognize that it's there and say, okay, you're there.
Guest:Because then we wouldn't, you know, we watch like a character like Tony Soprano.
Guest:We love him.
Marc:You're right.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It's because we've got that in us.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, thankfully, usually we're satisfied just watching it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a good part of TV.
Marc:Hey, I'm not a hoarder.
Marc:I'm not killing people.
Marc:A lot of things are resolved.
Guest:That's a good thing.
Guest:Yeah, it's a very good thing.
Marc:The hoarding thing I'm on the fence with, though, if I look around here.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So how are we going to do this musical?
Marc:What's the plan?
Guest:I think that, well, I've thought that both of us play you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And you're interviewing people, but then you go off into yourself and then maybe it cuts to parts of your past and things that you've gone through in your past and scenes that you've had.
Guest:So it keeps coming in and out of the cat ranch.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then I'm like your inner self.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Who you keep battling.
Marc:Okay, good, good.
Marc:And then is there a big number at the end?
Marc:Oh, yeah, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of people got to be a big number.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'll have the classic structure, but also be this like like inside your mind.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And at the end, it's just like 10 or 15 people dressed like me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Singing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I feel like we could get like our friends, you know, some good friends to play some of the interviewed parts and have some fun with it.
Marc:What is the classic structure of a musical?
Guest:Classic story structure, I think, which I don't even know.
Guest:It might not even have classic structure.
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:Like there's a conflict and then there's a resolution.
Guest:Yeah, but there'll probably be like several conflicts and it'll be very stream of consciousness.
Marc:Can we write the music together?
Guest:Yeah, I'd love to.
Guest:What do you play?
Guest:Let's do it.
Guest:I don't play anything, but I can come up with melody.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then I got a music guy who's excited to do it, who would give us full instrumentation.
Marc:Eddie Pepitone's got to have a part, right?
Guest:Eddie Pepitone's got to have a part.
Guest:We get Malali to do some numbers.
Guest:That'd be great.
Marc:That'd be funny.
Guest:Yeah, Megan's always down.
Guest:I heard her interview with Nick.
Guest:That was great.
Marc:She's a real theater person.
Guest:Yeah, they're awesome.
Guest:That was a really inspiring interview.
Marc:Yeah, and just on a relationship basis, it was inspiring.
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:And you're working with your girlfriend now?
Guest:I work with my girlfriend, yeah.
Marc:How's that going?
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I mean, we're both fiery, volatile people.
Guest:So the fights that we're going to have creatively, they mirror the fights that we have in our home life, which aren't really fights.
Guest:They're just how we communicate.
Marc:Oh, as long as it doesn't get too nasty, it's good.
Guest:No, it never gets nasty.
Guest:It's just...
Marc:Well, that's the difference between me and you, I guess.
Guest:It's just ethnic.
Guest:It's just ethnic.
Guest:Why is it ethnic?
Guest:Because I'm Jewish, and then she's Jewish and black and Panamanian.
Guest:Oh, I've met her before.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Janixa.
Marc:So you've met a Jewish black girl?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Marc:See, you've really created a conundrum for your parents.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I know, but they love her.
Guest:They love her.
Guest:They're not bigots at all.
Guest:Do you encounter any bigotry anywhere?
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:I try to stay away from it.
Guest:I usually put on a good killer's face whenever I'm out in public in case anybody's...
Guest:You know, one guy, this fucking asshole backstage one time asked me if that was my thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This fucking horrible comedian.
Guest:He was like, so is that like a fetish?
Guest:Is that like your thing, black chicks?
Guest:And I was just like, oh, so you're asking, I'm glad that you just reduced my two and a half year serious relationship to a fucking fetish, man.
Guest:yeah or two like but that's that's something to do with like the way that that is an objectification thing it's also a porn thing you know like everybody sees it that oh it wasn't racist as much as it was misogynist right right it was just like women are there for us to fuck yeah you know and it was just like no that's not uh that's not what i'm about that's only that's only half of it yeah that's only well 75 percent
Guest:no i mean no no i get what you're saying and unfortunately that's how it's a lot of comedian a lot of yeah men yeah thank you not just comedian yeah asian thing yeah yeah no i i have uh the uh my my heart feels this way thing yeah my i want to have a good life and actually have a real relationship with someone thing yeah that thing you know help somebody help me you know i mean she's uh did you fucking get pissed at him
Guest:Oh, I got so pissed at him.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I got him kicked off the fucking show.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got all mafia on his ass.
Marc:That's fucking awesome.
Guest:And I told the show, the person who had the show.
Guest:Is he still among us?
Guest:Oh, he probably is.
Guest:I don't give a shit.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'm not going to say his name, but if you're listening to this and you remember saying, stay the fuck away from me, asshole.
Guest:Nice.
Marc:And I think that's a fine way to close.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Greg Gellman, thanks for hanging out, buddy.
Guest:Thank you, man.
Guest:It's a pleasure being here.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show, the lovely Brett Gelman.
Marc:I do love that guy.
Marc:He makes me very happy.
Marc:He's one of those guys you sit across from and it makes you happy.
Marc:Look, as I said before, this Saturday, August 11th, I'm at Wise Guys for two shows in Utah.
Marc:I'm at the Blue Bridge Comedy Festival.
Marc:That is August 17th and 18th.
Marc:Correct?
Marc:Yes, it is.
Marc:It's Victoria Esquimalt.
Marc:I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right.
Marc:Looking forward to going up there.
Marc:I don't think I've ever... I have no idea what it's like up there.
Marc:Looking forward to that.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for everything that you may need.
Marc:Going to get some new merch up there soon.
Marc:Got some new posters.
Marc:You can get the Coop shirt.
Marc:You can kick in a few shekels.
Marc:Get that package.
Marc:You can get on that mailing list.
Marc:You can check who's been on.
Marc:You can get the app.
Marc:You can leave a comment.
Marc:Man, there's no end to it.
Marc:Is everything all right?
Marc:Are we good?
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:Boomy.
Marc:Hey, buddy.
Marc:What's up, Boomer?
Marc:What's up, buddy?
Marc:Give us another meow.
Marc:Boomy.
Marc:Come here.
Marc:Boomy.
Marc:That was solid.
Marc:Huh, Boomy?
Marc:That was solid.
Marc:Come here, buddy.
Marc:Ooh.
Marc:What's up, buddy?
Marc:I can't even hope for more than that.
Marc:Did you hear that?
Marc:I think he's finally taken to the mic.
Marc:Good job, Boomy.
Marc:All right, now I'll let you eat.
Marc:No one can know that I starved you in order to get those.