WTF with Marc Maron Podcast Transcripts

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Episode 3 - Patton Oswalt / Lawton Smalls / Matthew

Episode 3 • Released September 9, 2009 • Speakers detected

Episode 3 artwork
00:00:00Guest 6:Lock the gates!
00:00:07Guest 4:Are we doing this?
00:00:08Guest 4:Really?
00:00:08Guest 4:Wait for it.
00:00:09Guest 4:Are we doing this?
00:00:10Guest 4:Wait for it.
00:00:12Guest 4:Pow!
00:00:12Guest 4:What the fuck?
00:00:14Guest 4:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
00:00:16Guest 4:What's wrong with me?
00:00:17Guest 4:It's time for WTF!
00:00:19Guest 8:What the fuck?
00:00:20Guest 8:With Mark Maron.
00:00:24Marc:Welcome, folks, and a big what the fuck to all of you.
00:00:27Marc:Welcome to WTF.
00:00:29Marc:I am Mark Maron.
00:00:29Marc:I am the host of this show.
00:00:30Marc:Thanks for listening.
00:00:32Marc:It's been getting out there.
00:00:33Marc:It's been exciting.
00:00:34Marc:People are obviously experiencing a collective what the fuck experience, and I am happy that you're all on board.
00:00:41Marc:If you want to Twitter...
00:00:42Marc:the show or follow us on Twitter or tweet it or, you know, whatever the fuck it is.
00:00:47Marc:Go to WTF pod on Twitter.
00:00:49Marc:That's twitter.com slash WTF pod.
00:00:52Marc:You can also email us with your personal WTF experiences or events at WTF pod at Gmail.
00:00:59Marc:But let's get down to the brass tacks of the show.
00:01:03Marc:It is a good show.
00:01:03Marc:I'm excited.
00:01:04Marc:I just saw my buddy Patton Oswalt in his movie Big Fan, and he was great.
00:01:10Marc:And he's going to get on the phone with us here in just a little while to talk about that and hopefully talk about some other stuff, i.e.
00:01:16Marc:obsession and whether or not he actually likes sports, because if he did, I did not know that about him.
00:01:22Marc:Also, if you're familiar with some of the radio work I've done, Lawton Smalls, Planet Bush correspondent, formerly now just right wing whack job with kind of a broken heart is going to get on the phone with us as well.
00:01:36Marc:But let's talk about what the fuck moments, because I had a very serious one.
00:01:39Marc:I'm trying to identify them specifically in their uniqueness.
00:01:42Marc:But this happened at the bodega across the street.
00:01:45Marc:The Yemeni bodega.
00:01:46Marc:I'm not judging.
00:01:47Marc:I don't know much about Yemen, but these guys have known me a long time.
00:01:50Marc:Oh, shit.
00:01:51Marc:I owe them $2.
00:01:53Marc:I can't believe I just remembered that.
00:01:54Marc:I've got such a good relationship with these guys.
00:01:56Marc:I went in the other day after the gym.
00:01:58Marc:I got the coconut water because for some reason I've decided that's the best thing to drink after the gym because of electrolytes and potassium.
00:02:06Marc:I don't know, but I'm obsessed with it.
00:02:08Marc:And I said, can I pay you later?
00:02:09Marc:And I left and I didn't pay him.
00:02:11Marc:Shit, that makes me feel bad.
00:02:12Marc:I'm feeling bad right now.
00:02:14Marc:But let's get back to the what the fuck moment.
00:02:16Marc:I walk in there compulsively going through the ice cream case, which means that I was sitting at home.
00:02:22Marc:It was probably 1230, one o'clock at night.
00:02:24Marc:And I decided, wow, I'm still up.
00:02:26Marc:I'm really tired.
00:02:28Marc:I've just eaten four bowls of cereal.
00:02:30Marc:I think I need some ice cream.
00:02:31Marc:And then I usually say, dude, just go to bed.
00:02:33Marc:You're already stuffed with cereal.
00:02:34Marc:And then I go, yeah, but it would feel so good to have ice cream in my mouth.
00:02:38Marc:Oh, God.
00:02:40Marc:All right, let's go.
00:02:40Marc:So I go over there to the bodega.
00:02:42Marc:I look in the ice cream tank or freezer where they just got 150 pints of ice cream of all different kinds.
00:02:49Marc:And I'm plowing through the Ben and Jerry's because usually I'll get a Ben and Jerry's and a Haagen-Dazs.
00:02:53Marc:I always have to get two because I figure like, well, this one's too chocolatey.
00:02:57Marc:I need to cut it with Haagen-Dazs vanilla.
00:02:59Marc:Well, so I'm looking in the case and there is an ice cream that I've never seen before from Ben and Jerry's called Mission to Marzipan Ice Cream.
00:03:08Marc:I don't know how you feel about almonds.
00:03:10Marc:I don't know how you feel about marzipan, but I fucking love them.
00:03:13Marc:And marzipan, do you know those little fruits that you see in the Italian bakeries?
00:03:18Marc:They're just like almond paste.
00:03:19Marc:They're just grinded, sugary almond paste.
00:03:22Marc:I remember the first time I had it, I thought God had touched me.
00:03:25Marc:So I see this ice cream and I'm like, what the fuck?
00:03:29Marc:How can they almonds and marzipan and sweet cream ice cream right here in this?
00:03:34Marc:What the fuck?
00:03:36Marc:That is insane.
00:03:38Marc:And I turned on Ben and Jerry's for a lot of years, folks.
00:03:40Marc:I mean, I was with them from the beginning.
00:03:41Marc:I actually toured that factory when I was in my youth to see where this this nectar from heaven, this perfect consumer product that made me happy was made.
00:03:50Marc:And it was such a hippie kind of like tour where you walk through and it's all soft and everything has beards.
00:03:56Marc:And they take you to the end.
00:03:58Marc:You get to watch the factory and then they let you taste the flavor.
00:04:01Marc:It was so groovy, man.
00:04:02Marc:But then they got bought out and I got angry at Ben and Jerry's because they kept churning out these flavors that were ridiculous.
00:04:09Marc:I mean, how much shit can you put in ice cream when the flavors like, you know, vanilla ice cream with caramel swirls, fudge chunks, cheddar goldfish and pennies?
00:04:18Marc:You got to draw a line.
00:04:20Marc:But somewhere or another, that principle that I had set against Ben and Jerry's has eroded.
00:04:25Marc:It has dissolved.
00:04:27Marc:Because I was sitting there literally crying with joy at Mission to Marzipan ice cream.
00:04:32Marc:So this was a double what the fuck.
00:04:34Marc:Because I had the, what the fuck?
00:04:35Marc:And then I had the, what the fuck?
00:04:38Marc:Let's have some of this.
00:04:39Marc:And why not grab some Haagen-Dazs vanilla?
00:04:41Marc:What is this, a special limited edition Haagen-Dazs honey vanilla?
00:04:45Marc:What?
00:04:45Marc:Yeah, I'm getting that too.
00:04:47Marc:So I brought it home and I plowed through both pints.
00:04:51Marc:And I just got to say, it's fucking great.
00:04:54Marc:So that was that moment.
00:04:55Marc:And then the other moment I had around food was they just opened up Brooklyn Bagels across the street from me.
00:05:00Marc:And I don't know when the last time I bought just a regular bagel was, but the last time I bought one, it must have been 1945.
00:05:06Marc:which is impossible.
00:05:07Marc:But when they said a dollar for a bagel, not toasted, not cut with nothing on it is a dollar.
00:05:12Marc:I was like, that's absurd.
00:05:14Marc:These should be a quarter.
00:05:16Marc:I bought it anyways.
00:05:17Marc:All right.
00:05:18Marc:So those are those two moments around food.
00:05:21Marc:And then a larger moment happened.
00:05:22Marc:I guess it was about a week ago.
00:05:24Marc:A big what the fuck with Glenn Beck.
00:05:26Marc:I don't know if you watch him.
00:05:27Marc:It's not necessarily important that you watch him.
00:05:29Marc:You probably shouldn't because if you believe him, you're out of your mind.
00:05:32Marc:And if you don't believe him, you'll actually develop such a resentment and such a palpable hate buzz from watching him that it'll be unbearable or you'll get addicted.
00:05:43Marc:But what I wanted to do address is that he did this thing.
00:05:46Marc:It was about a week ago where he got in front.
00:05:47Marc:He showed pictures of the front of Rockefeller Center.
00:05:50Marc:He showed the murals in front of Rockefeller Center.
00:05:52Marc:He was trying to make some long drawn out case that these murals were depicting communist workers.
00:05:58Marc:But it was one of these connect the dots, conspiratorial thinking exams or examinations of what is happening in the world.
00:06:08Marc:So he was like, you know, these are communists.
00:06:10Marc:This is the Rockefeller Center.
00:06:11Marc:You know, Rockefeller had something to do.
00:06:12Marc:United Nations, you know, NBC is in Rockefeller Center.
00:06:15Marc:So the Today Show and Keith Olbermann and
00:06:17Marc:Anybody on NBC is just part of this, you know, broader socialist agenda.
00:06:22Marc:And how clear does it have to be?
00:06:23Marc:Look at the guy with a hammer in this relief in front of this building that nobody ever looks at.
00:06:29Marc:I mean, wake up, people.
00:06:30Marc:This has been going on for years yet, but no one's noticed it.
00:06:34Marc:But I had a what the fuck moment in the sense that I'm looking at this and I think it's ridiculous, but I understand it.
00:06:41Marc:I understand the connect the dots way of thinking.
00:06:45Marc:I understand conspiracy.
00:06:47Marc:I understand the need to put things together in order to make sense of a world that is frightening and confusing because I used to be a paranoid guy.
00:06:58Marc:I used to be a conspiratorial thinker.
00:07:00Marc:I didn't have a, there was no umbrella to it.
00:07:02Marc:I was just an obsessive, compulsive, frightened person that needed to put a lot of shit together to make me feel like I had some sort of control over
00:07:11Marc:Over my environment in the world.
00:07:14Marc:And I get the same thing when I deal with people.
00:07:16Marc:Who are basic conspiracy theorists.
00:07:18Marc:Is they commit to these ideas.
00:07:20Marc:Like I'm not calling the 9-11 truthers.
00:07:22Marc:Conspiracy theorists.
00:07:23Marc:I'm not calling you a conspiracy theorist.
00:07:25Marc:If you think that socialism is creeping into this country.
00:07:28Marc:And I'm not even trying to be that political.
00:07:29Marc:Because we all do it.
00:07:30Marc:We all connect dots.
00:07:32Marc:That's what our brain does.
00:07:33Marc:It's sort of an obsessive way.
00:07:35Marc:To give us some sense of connection.
00:07:38Marc:And that the world makes sense somehow.
00:07:40Marc:But my point is, is that if you get too committed to it, you become a lunatic, fanatic, whack job of any kind.
00:07:47Marc:I think that there is a very fine line between conspiracy theorists and born again Christians because they're both fanatics.
00:07:56Marc:They both commit to a series of unprovable tenets that they meld together into a dogma, and they both have the same reaction if you question them.
00:08:06Marc:Like, dude, that can't be true.
00:08:08Marc:That's ridiculous.
00:08:08Marc:You can't prove that.
00:08:09Marc:Oh, oh, okay.
00:08:10Marc:So if you want to live in the dark, go ahead.
00:08:13Marc:You go ahead, because I know the truth.
00:08:16Marc:I swear to you, if Jesus Christ were to come down tomorrow and hover over the world and look down on the people of the world, and the only thing he said—
00:08:25Marc:Was Oswald worked alone.
00:08:28Marc:There would be people on the ground that would be like.
00:08:31Marc:What does that guy know?
00:08:32Marc:He lives in the sky.
00:08:33Marc:He was probably part of it.
00:08:35Marc:He's a patsy.
00:08:36Marc:Jesus Christ was on the grassy knoll.
00:08:38Marc:You can't fight with that type of thinking.
00:08:40Marc:But it's an obsessive type of thinking.
00:08:42Marc:And it's prevalent.
00:08:43Marc:And I'm an obsessive guy.
00:08:44Marc:I've always been an obsessive compulsive guy.
00:08:47Marc:There's a new, I think there's a new program on, I can't even remember what network it is.
00:08:52Marc:Brendan, did you know that program where they just show obsessive compulsive people?
00:08:56Guest 2:Yeah.
00:08:56Guest 2:What is it?
00:08:57Guest 2:It's on A&E, I believe, and I think it's called Obsessed.
00:09:00Marc:Yeah, it's a cottage industry of being voyeuristic on people's pain, aggravation and sickness.
00:09:07Marc:But I will say something in defense of OCD because I have mild OCD.
00:09:14Marc:It comes and goes.
00:09:15Marc:OK, it's not unusual for me to lock my door, get into my bed, lay down, get comfortable, get my cat in position so he's comfortable and then get up to go check and see if I lock the door.
00:09:27Marc:So I get up, I go see if I lock the door.
00:09:29Marc:I go, okay, good.
00:09:30Marc:I go back to bed.
00:09:31Marc:I get everything else set up again.
00:09:32Marc:I go, wait, did I lock it?
00:09:34Marc:And I get up and go check it again.
00:09:35Marc:This can go on four or five times.
00:09:37Marc:And I've also had the checking the stove thing.
00:09:39Marc:That's another thing I have, which is a common obsessive compulsive thing where I leave the house and I get about a block away and I'm like, oh shit, the stove is, did I turn the stove off?
00:09:49Marc:Even if I hadn't even turned the stove on and I go back and I check it, that can go on three or four times.
00:09:54Marc:Now you may say that's sad, Mark, you have a problem.
00:09:57Marc:But I will tell you the one benefit of OCD, and it is a real benefit, is that every time I go back to see if that stove is on, I get the same overwhelming feeling of relief when it isn't.
00:10:11Marc:And that's nothing to shake a stick at.
00:10:13Marc:I mean, that feels good.
00:10:14Marc:We're like, oh, good.
00:10:15Marc:Thank God.
00:10:16Marc:But then a few minutes, you're like, what the fuck is wrong with me?
00:10:19Marc:How many times am I going to check this thing?
00:10:22Marc:And I've been an obsessive fan.
00:10:24Marc:I was obsessed with the Rolling Stones and I liked the Beatles, but I was more of a Stones guy.
00:10:30Marc:The Beatles are fine.
00:10:31Marc:The Beatles are geniuses.
00:10:32Marc:Everyone knows that they're on a higher plane.
00:10:35Marc:But, you know, if you're a kid, everybody knows the Beatles songs.
00:10:38Marc:Everybody loves the Beatles.
00:10:39Marc:There's nobody that doesn't love the Beatles.
00:10:40Marc:They're just integrated into my into all of our souls.
00:10:44Marc:And of course, they're geniuses and they're great.
00:10:47Marc:But at some point around 12 or 13, I'm like, you know what?
00:10:50Marc:I more appreciate people who do drugs and dress like that, like the Rolling Stones.
00:10:56Marc:Eventually, the Beatles song, they just become like Christmas carols.
00:10:59Marc:You're like, OK, hey, Jude.
00:11:00Marc:But oh, Lou Reed.
00:11:02Marc:I remember I used to love the Velvet Underground.
00:11:05Marc:And in my most obsessive fan moment.
00:11:07Marc:I think had to be when Lou Reed came to Boston where I was going to school to sign records.
00:11:14Marc:He was signing new sensations, which was an okay record, but he was going to be at the strawberries in Kenmore square.
00:11:20Marc:And I'm like, I'm going to go meet Lou Reed.
00:11:22Marc:So I'm going down there and I'm walking down to, to meet Lou Reed.
00:11:25Marc:Cause I think it's just going to be him and I, and we're going to have a conversation.
00:11:29Marc:And I get there and there's a line of people out the door of Strawberries Records to meet Lou Reed.
00:11:35Marc:And of course, I get online behind the six foot five guy who's wearing a white jumpsuit who has an amp strapped to his back and is playing Velvet Underground songs.
00:11:44Marc:So how am I going to follow that?
00:11:46Marc:How can you not follow that?
00:11:47Marc:Those kind of people have to frighten Lou Reed.
00:11:49Marc:But all I'm thinking is like, what am I going to say to Lou?
00:11:52Marc:How am I going to connect?
00:11:53Marc:How am I going to connect with Lou Reed?
00:11:55Marc:I have a moment to do it.
00:11:56Marc:And I keep thinking, I keep thinking, I wait online for like 45 minutes.
00:12:00Marc:I got my transformer album.
00:12:02Marc:Cause that was the album, the Lou Reed album.
00:12:04Marc:And I walk up to Lou and I hand him my record and I go, how you doing Lou?
00:12:08Marc:He's like, good man.
00:12:09Marc:What's your name?
00:12:11Marc:And I go, Mark.
00:12:11Marc:He goes, Hey Mark, how you doing?
00:12:14Marc:And I go pretty good Lou.
00:12:16Marc:Hey Lou, what gauge pick do you use?
00:12:19Marc:Huh?
00:12:20Marc:A little guitar talk.
00:12:21Marc:That was my big question.
00:12:23Marc:That was what was going to set me apart from the rest of the fans.
00:12:25Marc:And God bless Lou Reed, if you believe in that sort of thing, because he looked at me and says, medium, man, you got to use a medium.
00:12:33Marc:And I've been using a medium pick ever since.
00:12:44Marc:All right.
00:12:45Marc:So right now on the phone, I did go see the movie Big Fan, which stars my guest.
00:12:51Marc:I've also known him for years.
00:12:53Marc:We've had a very warm and contentious, lovely relationship over the past 10 years or so.
00:13:00Marc:You know him from the movie where he talked for the mouse.
00:13:04Marc:He's a comedian of comedy.
00:13:06Marc:He's had little parts in a million different movies.
00:13:11Marc:And this is a professional show, and that's why I'm giving him such a professional intro.
00:13:15Marc:Patton Oswalt is here with me right now.
00:13:16Marc:Hi, Patton.
00:13:17Guest 10:Hi, Mark.
00:13:18Guest 10:How you doing?
00:13:18Marc:I'm good, man.
00:13:19Marc:You know, I just want to say this publicly, because I think you don't know the new Mark.
00:13:23Guest 10:Oh, no, I don't think I do.
00:13:25Marc:Yeah.
00:13:25Marc:Congratulations on all your success.
00:13:27Marc:I'm very I'm happy to have watched it slowly build over the years.
00:13:32Marc:There were some periods are in the middle where I found I resented it.
00:13:35Marc:But now I I'm just I'm thrilled that you're doing so well and I enjoyed the movie.
00:13:40Guest 10:Oh, I'm glad you went and saw it in New York.
00:13:42Marc:Yes, I went and saw it at the Angelica Theater here in New York where it's playing.
00:13:45Marc:And I don't love that theater.
00:13:47Marc:But that is not a good theater.
00:13:48Marc:Yeah, between the screen being the size of the TV I have at home and the trains, it's not good.
00:13:54Guest 10:Got that train rumbling by.
00:13:56Guest 10:I don't know.
00:13:57Guest 10:It would have helped our movie if they just set the thing in a subway where I'm selling tokens in a subway rather than an immersive experience, I guess.
00:14:05Marc:Yeah, well, we can still do that.
00:14:06Marc:People do that kind of stuff in New York all the time.
00:14:08Marc:It could be an installation at the subway.
00:14:11Marc:So let me ask you a couple of questions about this, because I know I've known you for a long time.
00:14:16Marc:And unless you're hiding something, I've never known you to be a sports fan.
00:14:19Marc:I've known you to be a fan of, say, morbid videos, perhaps things about machinery that I don't understand, being that you're a little more nerdy than I am.
00:14:32Marc:And you have a lot of smart things to say about things.
00:14:35Marc:But I've never, ever heard you once talk about sports.
00:14:38Guest 10:I've never followed sports in my life.
00:14:40Guest 10:I've never followed them.
00:14:41Guest 10:And it's weird.
00:14:42Guest 10:I'm not a guy that hates sports.
00:14:44Guest 10:I've never hated them or hated people that were athletes.
00:14:47Guest 10:But for some reason, I cannot...
00:14:49Guest 10:I just can't connect with it being interesting to me.
00:14:53Marc:Yeah, I was never brought up with it.
00:14:54Marc:I have the same thing.
00:14:57Marc:And in this movie, you play an obsessed sports fanatic, a Giants fan.
00:15:02Guest 3:Yeah.
00:15:03Marc:Literally, though, I have the same experience that you did.
00:15:06Marc:I just wasn't brought up with it.
00:15:08Marc:I played on a Little League team, and I broke my nose in center field, which isn't supposed to happen.
00:15:13Guest 10:Whoa.
00:15:13Marc:Yeah, and I was fat.
00:15:15Guest 10:I'm going to say, did you broke your nose on like a fly ball?
00:15:18Marc:Yeah, yeah.
00:15:18Guest 10:So you had time to stand there and watch this thing slowly come out of the sky and break your nose.
00:15:24Guest 10:Exactly.
00:15:25Guest 10:Oh, that's got to be a metaphor for something.
00:15:27Marc:Yeah, it's a metaphor for you don't need to do sports.
00:15:30Marc:It was a very clear message from the god of sports.
00:15:33Marc:There was no mistaking that that was the end of my career.
00:15:37Marc:Wow.
00:15:37Marc:Yeah, and my anorexic mother, out of sympathy, actually brought me to have a banana split, which was a tremendous sacrifice for her.
00:15:44Marc:But no, but like I talked to a guy, you know, Frank Santorelli, he's a comedian.
00:15:49Marc:He was on The Sopranos briefly.
00:15:50Marc:I used to host a show with him on Comedy Central.
00:15:52Marc:And he's a huge sports fan.
00:15:55Marc:And I literally told him one day, I said, you know, I don't really like sports.
00:15:57Marc:He goes, well, then he looked at me completely confused.
00:16:00Marc:And he goes, well, then how do you feel alive?
00:16:03Marc:And he meant it.
00:16:05Guest 10:But, I mean, Mark, you run into people, I'm sure, in your life that, I mean, you're very passionate about stuff like music and politics.
00:16:11Guest 10:And there have to have been people that you run into.
00:16:13Guest 10:And they're not bad people.
00:16:14Guest 10:They're not dumb people.
00:16:15Guest 10:But they have zero to them.
00:16:18Guest 10:Music is whatever comes out of the radio, and they shrug their shoulders and go, I guess that's what I'm listening to now.
00:16:22Guest 3:Yeah.
00:16:23Guest 10:They have no taste either way.
00:16:24Guest 10:They don't hate anything.
00:16:25Guest 10:They don't love anything.
00:16:26Guest 10:And they must seem like Martians to you.
00:16:29Marc:Well, I don't find that they talk to me.
00:16:31Marc:Usually, they're the people that go, let's just stay away from that guy.
00:16:34Marc:Right.
00:16:34Marc:Yeah, because he's going to disrupt our mediocrity.
00:16:37Marc:Yeah.
00:16:38Marc:But I do know you to be a compulsive person.
00:16:41Guest 10:Oh, very compulsive.
00:16:42Guest 10:Oh, yeah.
00:16:42Guest 10:Good Lord.
00:16:43Marc:Come on, man.
00:16:44Marc:Yeah, you got the food thing.
00:16:45Guest 10:You visited my apartment and saw my... The comic books.
00:16:48Guest 10:Comic books, video tape collections.
00:16:51Guest 10:Yeah.
00:16:51Guest 10:It's that weird completist autism.
00:16:53Guest 10:I call it completist autism.
00:16:54Marc:Really?
00:16:54Marc:Some people call it obsession.
00:16:56Guest 10:Well, yeah.
00:16:56Guest 10:But I think it goes beyond obsession where, you know, it's one thing to obsess on one thing.
00:17:02Guest 10:Like, I'm, you know, someone that's obsessed with...
00:17:04Guest 10:you know, the, a certain conspiracy theory or a public figure.
00:17:08Guest 3:Yeah.
00:17:08Guest 10:But I always had that.
00:17:10Guest 10:I've got to have the complete run of everything, be it a comic book or, you know, certain artists.
00:17:16Guest 10:I got to have everything that they put out.
00:17:18Guest 10:I remember I, I bought a copy of, of,
00:17:22Guest 10:Apocalypse Culture, that book Apocalypse Culture.
00:17:24Marc:That's the best book in the world.
00:17:26Guest 10:And I went to your apartment, and you had an earlier first edition that was out of print.
00:17:30Guest 10:And it just ate at my stomach that that existed.
00:17:35Guest 10:Why was I not told?
00:17:37Guest 10:And then years later, I went on Alibris.
00:17:39Guest 10:And I bought one.
00:17:40Guest 10:I own the first edition now.
00:17:42Guest 10:And I have the new edition because it has like one different essay in it.
00:17:45Marc:Yeah, but the first edition has an essay that is the best essay in the book.
00:17:49Marc:And that's King Kill 33 Degree Latitude, that James Shelby downward piece on the Masonic symbolism in the JFK murder.
00:17:57Marc:Right.
00:17:57Marc:That is singularly the best piece of paranoid conspiracy writing ever.
00:18:02Guest 10:Yeah, it's a delusion with footnotes.
00:18:04Marc:Yeah, it's unbelievable.
00:18:06Marc:And I don't know that that's anywhere other than Apocalypse Culture, first edition from Feral House Press.
00:18:11Marc:Adam Parfrey edited it.
00:18:13Marc:But I think you actually frightened me out of comic books.
00:18:17Marc:I mean, when I met you, I had dabbled in comic books, and I got into it way late in my life.
00:18:22Marc:I wasn't into it as a kid.
00:18:24Marc:I wasn't an obsessive collector.
00:18:26Marc:But I had started buying comic books probably...
00:18:29Marc:In my late 20s, and I got involved with Hellblazer, Sandman, Swamp Thing, and some other stuff.
00:18:35Marc:And then some of the alternative comic books, like Hate and a couple other things.
00:18:40Marc:And then I met you after I moved to San Francisco.
00:18:43Marc:And then all of a sudden, it's like, I go to your place, and it's like, this is my empire of illustrated entertainment.
00:18:50Marc:and and you were going to the comic book store and you would you would leave with like a box you know a monthly habit i'm like i can't get in this deep i'm gonna stick with cocaine and booze this guy could yeah but you made the right choice i think you actually helped your brain as i turned mine into jello yeah but you know i also remember back then that with with comics and i i think back on how i would talk to people about comic books or movies and i just shudder because i must have been like
00:19:15Guest 10:one of those village elders, like in Shaman times, that you ask them a question and they have to tell you the entire oral history of the village.
00:19:22Guest 10:They can't just answer the one specific question.
00:19:25Guest 10:Like if you say, hey, is Hellblazer good?
00:19:28Guest 10:And then I would go, well, Jack Kirby started, I would just go all the way back.
00:19:33Guest 10:It was fucking insane.
00:19:34Guest 10:It was so sad.
00:19:36Marc:Yeah, how did I not?
00:19:36Marc:Of course you scared me out of it.
00:19:38Marc:I'm like, there's no way that I'm ever going to know what he knows.
00:19:42Marc:And you know what?
00:19:43Marc:I'm not sure I want to.
00:19:44Guest 10:Everything was a competition with us back then.
00:19:46Guest 10:Remember that?
00:19:47Marc:Well, clearly you won.
00:19:50Guest 10:Well, I won in something that means I lost.
00:19:54Marc:I don't know.
00:19:55Marc:I won, but I lost.
00:19:56Marc:I don't know.
00:19:58Marc:You seem to be pretty well insulated in your success.
00:20:03Marc:I read something the other day.
00:20:08Marc:About what was it?
00:20:09Marc:Some fake feud you'd had with Dave Cross and about the idea of selling out, because I had a discussion on this show just about the that you don't hear it much anymore.
00:20:20Marc:And my argument was that.
00:20:23Marc:It's a relative to your personal integrity and that selling out is not really an issue because people now are sort of like, hey, if I can be me, what difference does it make if I'm if I'm selling Hitler or Hitler soap or whatever?
00:20:36Marc:But but I mean, obviously, that's an extreme example.
00:20:39Marc:But I mean, what are your feelings about it?
00:20:40Marc:I mean, you've done you've done a voice for a mouse, but people love that.
00:20:43Marc:You've also sold Sierra Mist, but people sometimes drink that.
00:20:47Marc:And you were kind of goofy on the commercial, but I would have been embarrassed.
00:20:49Guest 10:Well, here's the thing about what we're talking about.
00:20:52Guest 10:You mentioned earlier that you're insulated by your success, and it just seems to me, this is my theory, and I'm still young and dumb.
00:21:01Marc:Don't ever say that to me again.
00:21:02Guest 10:But what?
00:21:04Guest 10:That you're young and dumb.
00:21:05Marc:Okay.
00:21:06Marc:You're like 40 and clearly very intelligent.
00:21:08Guest 10:I remember we were at Cobb's one night, and I came on stage, and I had a pretty good set, and I walked by you, and you went,
00:21:14Guest 10:Wow, Patton Oswalt with wisdom and humility.
00:21:17Guest 10:Imagine the day.
00:21:18Guest 10:And I just wanted to go, that was just said to me by the person that could not be further away from wisdom and humility right now.
00:21:26Marc:I know you've got more stories about me.
00:21:29Guest 10:Are you kidding?
00:21:30Guest 10:The one that I've told on stage that I love, and you've heard me tell this.
00:21:34Guest 10:I borrowed that book from you, Manson, in his own words.
00:21:36Guest 3:Yeah.
00:21:37Guest 10:You had that hardback, and there was a quote by Manson that said...
00:21:40Guest 10:I wanted my own circle, and you had underlined that and put stars around it.
00:21:47Guest 10:Like, oh, good Lord, this guy is making plans.
00:21:53Marc:You know what?
00:21:54Marc:It didn't pan out.
00:21:54Guest 10:You know, whatever plans are... Where's your Krenwinkel and Squeaky from, man?
00:22:00Marc:Well, Linda and Squeaky and Krenwinkel are back at the apartment.
00:22:06Marc:You know, and...
00:22:07Guest 10:You know, here's the thing about, I guess, selling our success.
00:22:12Guest 3:Yeah.
00:22:13Guest 10:For what little I've seen so far.
00:22:14Guest 10:Well, you mentioned earlier that you're very insulated by your success.
00:22:17Guest 3:Right.
00:22:17Guest 10:It just seems to me that people that are going after success so that they can be insulated are the ones that eventually fail.
00:22:26Guest 10:In other words, it's that idea of, oh, if I can just make enough money and have enough fame that I can just keep the world away and just be successful.
00:22:33Guest 3:Right.
00:22:33Guest 10:Then you eventually...
00:22:35Guest 10:The only way to really know who you are is to see how you see yourself in action with other people.
00:22:42Marc:Oh, shit.
00:22:43Marc:Hold on.
00:22:45Marc:I've got to write this down.
00:22:46Guest 10:All right.
00:22:49Guest 10:So what little success I've gotten, I've tried to make it so that I'm forced to keep dealing with more and more people and opening myself up to more experiences rather than
00:23:04Guest 10:oh my God, if I get enough money, I can just buy all the comic books in the world and have it in this sealed vault and then have all the DVDs I want and then boom, it's perfect.
00:23:13Guest 10:Whereas, you know, I tried to use, when I finally got some money in success, I did comedians of comedy and, you know, put... Right, you keep being creative and putting yourself out there.
00:23:22Guest 10:I put money back into stuff.
00:23:23Guest 10:Right.
00:23:24Guest 10:You know, the Sierra Miss thing was...
00:23:26Guest 10:They offered the most ridiculously profane amount of money for an afternoon's work.
00:23:33Guest 10:Even my wife at the time, we had just gotten married, said, there's no fucking way you're not doing that.
00:23:38Guest 10:That's ridiculous because that will pay for all this other stuff that you keep saying.
00:23:43Marc:Yeah, no, I definitely understand.
00:23:45Marc:It's so funny when you said, you know, I could have all the comics I want in a vault and all the DVD.
00:23:50Marc:I just pictured you in a vault-like mansion with a chef and just sitting there in a diaper.
00:23:57Guest 10:I swear to God, man, I think that's what some people fantasize about.
00:24:00Guest 10:And there was a time, I think, when I was in my 20s and you two, all of us, when we were back in San Francisco, I think we...
00:24:07Guest 10:had variations on that fantasy.
00:24:09Guest 10:And I think as you get older, you meet people who have gotten that sort of success and taken it down that road.
00:24:16Guest 10:And it leads to such failure.
00:24:18Guest 10:They get to the end of their lives and they go, I didn't produce anything.
00:24:22Guest 10:All I did was acquire.
00:24:24Guest 10:I went out to perform so that I could acquire rather than went out to perform so I could keep performing.
00:24:31Marc:I found that I've spent my life performing just so people understand me.
00:24:36Guest 10:Well, that's, you know, that's actually a pretty good reason to keep doing what you're doing.
00:24:41Guest 10:That's, I think, a lot more, I hate to use the word holy, but that's a lot more human than people that are, I'm just performing so that I can get love for more and more and more strangers.
00:24:51Guest 10:Yeah, because there's a huge difference in I'm trying to be understood on my own terms, no matter how many, you know, steps I take backwards to do it versus I just want people to, I mean,
00:25:04Guest 10:Have you noticed how a lot of right-wing pundits, especially on AM radio, are former failed comedians?
00:25:11Guest 10:Yeah, yeah.
00:25:11Guest 10:I think that a bad comedian just wants the audience cheering for the eight things that they say.
00:25:17Marc:Well, it's weird because I don't think I was ever looking for love.
00:25:20Marc:I was looking for something a little more intense, like a kind of a push-me-pull-you, passive-aggressive, like me, now I don't like you, now what are you going to do?
00:25:28Marc:Which is not everyone's idea of an entertaining evening.
00:25:30Guest 10:Yeah, exactly.
00:25:31Guest 10:But again, the good comedians are the ones that go on stage.
00:25:35Guest 10:And the same with the good, good pundits, good broadcasters are they're just they're always up there asking questions of themselves, of the audience.
00:25:42Guest 10:Whereas the bad comedians are like, I want to know that there are 11 to 12 things I can say and get surefire applause.
00:25:50Guest 10:And get my check.
00:25:51Guest 10:And that's all I that's as far as I was.
00:25:53Marc:There's not many of them around anymore, is there?
00:25:55Marc:I guess there are.
00:25:56Marc:But they do Vegas and they do places where people expect that.
00:25:59Marc:But, yeah, we don't want to be one of those guys.
00:26:01Marc:You want to keep creating.
00:26:03Marc:And if this is what you do is to continue to push yourself out there in all these different forms, especially in taking the risk of taking a role that was certainly not a comedic role.
00:26:13Marc:And you probably read that thing and said, I don't know if I got the chops for this.
00:26:16Guest 10:Yeah, well, there was a whole lot of things of, I don't know if I have the skill to pull this thing off, and I don't know if this movie itself, I mean, I'm also, when you do a movie, you're in someone else's hands entirely, because what if they get the wrong editor?
00:26:31Guest 10:What if they get the wrong DP?
00:26:32Guest 10:What if the director makes bad decisions?
00:26:34Guest 10:And then you are the kind of, you're the main focus of this thing that doesn't work.
00:26:40Guest 10:It still is on you eventually.
00:26:42Guest 10:So, you know, it's the kind of risk that, whereas if you're a comedian and you go, I don't know if I can make this joke work, it's just you.
00:26:50Guest 10:But you don't have to worry about, and I hope the lighting guy lights me correctly and the microphone is at the right, you know.
00:26:55Marc:Right.
00:26:56Marc:It's all up to you, but a movie.
00:26:57Marc:Yeah, somebody doesn't put a wig on me in effects.
00:27:00Guest 10:I hope I get the right wig maker.
00:27:01Guest 10:Yeah.
00:27:02Guest 10:If I go out in the wrong wig, I'm fucked.
00:27:03Marc:Yeah.
00:27:04Guest 10:This isn't going to work.
00:27:05Guest 10:The difference to me also between, you mentioned that Sierra Mist thing.
00:27:12Guest 10:In my mind, this is, again, this is my crazy rationalization, and I think we talked about this years ago about, well, fucking Bob Dylan's doing lingerie.
00:27:20Guest 10:Okay, please don't bring up Bob Dylan doing lingerie ads.
00:27:24Guest 10:He's earned his lingerie ads.
00:27:26Guest 10:Just calm down.
00:27:26Guest 10:But if Sierra Miss wants to hire me as an actor for hire, to stand there in a kilt and have cold air blown on my nuts, then that's fine.
00:27:36Guest 10:But then later on,
00:27:37Guest 10:They said, we want to do a radio campaign and have a lot of different comedians and go, Sierra Mist Presents.
00:27:42Guest 10:And that's why I said, well, no, because I don't drink Sierra Mist and my comedy shouldn't be connected to this product.
00:27:50Guest 10:And other people are like, what's the difference?
00:27:53Guest 10:You're in the commercial.
00:27:54Guest 10:But the commercial, I'm an actor for hire.
00:27:55Guest 10:I'm not saying Sierra Mist is good or bad.
00:27:58Guest 10:I'm just being an actor for hire.
00:28:00Marc:Oh, that's... Well, that's... Okay.
00:28:02Guest 10:Well, you know, that's... Mark, it's a huge rationalism.
00:28:05Guest 10:I'm kidding.
00:28:06Guest 10:But still, that's how it works.
00:28:08Marc:Well, I'm glad that you went ahead and inserted the Mark voice.
00:28:11Marc:Like, dude, what's the difference?
00:28:12Marc:But...
00:28:14Marc:Like, I didn't even have to ask the question.
00:28:16Marc:You clearly have something in your head that asks that frequently.
00:28:19Marc:I knew it was coming.
00:28:21Marc:Yeah.
00:28:22Marc:Well, the thing that I actually, if I'm going to be honest, you know, in watching you do the work you did in the fan was that I know usually comics struggle through, you know, dramatic roles.
00:28:32Marc:There's only a few that can do it.
00:28:34Marc:But the one thing that I did respect about the one thing, I mean, you did a great job.
00:28:39Marc:You carried the movie and I and I liked looking at you and I didn't feel a lot of spite.
00:28:43Marc:And I was an interesting story was that there were moments where as comics, the best acting we can do when it comes to emotions is to actually have them.
00:28:53Marc:Oh, yeah.
00:28:54Marc:But so there were moments where I saw where I saw you crying or whatever.
00:28:59Marc:And I'm like, you know, he had to work up to that.
00:29:01Marc:And he went ahead and did the work.
00:29:03Marc:But it's not like that's Patton, the actor crying.
00:29:05Marc:I'm like, that's fucking Patton crying.
00:29:07Marc:Yeah.
00:29:08Marc:And that's Patton yelling.
00:29:09Marc:And he's not a yeller.
00:29:10Marc:But so there.
00:29:11Marc:There is those moments where like the best that comics can do.
00:29:14Marc:And I think that all of us can do this because it's only right under the surface.
00:29:18Marc:And I'm not saying everyone can act.
00:29:19Marc:But, you know, you went ahead and took the risk of accessing them publicly because you were doing this part that required it.
00:29:25Marc:And I saw it.
00:29:26Marc:There was there was the screaming, the crying and the masturbation was very convincing.
00:29:30Marc:I was convinced that you you you masturbate frequently.
00:29:35Guest 10:Yeah, I'm glad that I was able to, because, wow, man, I did my job then.
00:29:39Guest 10:I created a whole other world that doesn't exist.
00:29:44Marc:Now, my producer here, who happens to be a huge Giants fan, is chomping at the bit to ask you some questions.
00:29:51Guest 2:Well, it was really just one specific thing, because if you were not a sports fan, as you said, I'm wondering, did you wind up having to... If Tom Cruise was doing Born on the Fourth of July and he had to hang out with paraplegics, did you have to hang out with obsessed fans?
00:30:08Guest 2:Because it was so uncanny.
00:30:10Guest 2:I go to Giants games and I'm...
00:30:12Guest 2:I've seen your character.
00:30:13Guest 2:He does sit in the parking lot and watch the game.
00:30:16Guest 10:Yeah, you know, I didn't go hang out with the fans, but I have seen their equivalents at the new Beverly Cinema in L.A.
00:30:25Guest 10:and at the Comic-Con down in San Diego.
00:30:27Guest 10:You see those, you know, fringe, obsessive types.
00:30:31Guest 10:My theory on why he watches it out in the parking lot, doesn't it seem to you like he's one of those guys...
00:30:37Guest 10:that he's one of those acolytes that I'm not going to be part of the big sweaty mass worshiping this thing.
00:30:45Guest 10:I'm going to go to my own private temple because I'm even...
00:30:48Guest 10:I love them in a way that no one else loves them, and I'm special.
00:30:52Guest 2:And he has that access to the sports radio show that is kind of his art form, and so if he were sullying it with the other people around him cheering, he might not have as pure an experience.
00:31:05Guest 10:Exactly.
00:31:06Guest 10:Exactly.
00:31:07Guest 10:It's the whole, you know, you go to any rock concert, there's always a couple of people
00:31:12Guest 10:standing in the back, away from the crowd, but way more intensely watching the concert than anyone in the front row.
00:31:19Marc:Because they're above the rest of them.
00:31:20Guest 10:They are above, and a holy thing is happening here that is beyond the mass of people.
00:31:25Marc:Right, and they have the understanding.
00:31:27Marc:Because, I mean, you and... What's that other guy's name?
00:31:31Marc:Kevin Corrigan.
00:31:32Marc:I mean, you guys were actually dorkier than most fans.
00:31:37Guest 10:I don't know.
00:31:37Guest 10:Ask your producer.
00:31:38Guest 10:I mean, I don't know...
00:31:40Guest 10:I think we may have been pretty accurate.
00:31:42Guest 10:I'm sure there are fans like that.
00:31:44Marc:But like, you know, you like as a sense that, oh, I'm sure there are fans like that.
00:31:48Marc:But there are also like roughneck, you know, bully kind of, you know, you know, you know, guys, guys kind of kick your ass type of fans, too.
00:31:57Marc:And I have to assume that.
00:31:59Marc:I don't know who you were in elementary school and in junior high, but I have to assume, I mean, I was one of these guys that because of my sense of humor could flow freely through all different groups and mock them to their face and they wouldn't know and have a relative amount of acceptance.
00:32:16Marc:But I don't know, were you bullied?
00:32:18Marc:Did you draw lines when you were in grade school?
00:32:21Marc:What did you look at?
00:32:22Marc:What were the jocks to you in high school?
00:32:24Guest 10:I was the same thing.
00:32:25Guest 10:I was one of those kind of free-floating...
00:32:27Guest 10:That whole cliche of the class clown, there's never a class clown.
00:32:32Guest 10:There is always...
00:32:33Guest 10:The class clown is in itself a clique.
00:32:36Guest 10:There is a clique of class clowns that, you know, they know all the Monty Python routines for anyone else.
00:32:42Marc:And they all come to school in a little car.
00:32:44Guest 10:Yeah, all 18 of them in a car with a huge wind-up key on the back.
00:32:50Guest 3:Exactly.
00:32:51Guest 10:But, yeah, I was in that group of guys and those kind of guys.
00:32:54Guest 10:I mean, yeah, we were all dorks, but it's also we had the best insults and the, you know, so...
00:33:02Guest 10:We tended to eat.
00:33:03Guest 10:It's not that we were elevated, but we were kind of either left alone or just sort of, you know.
00:33:08Marc:But you must have been really good at it because weren't you class president at some point?
00:33:11Guest 10:I was the vice president senior year.
00:33:13Guest 10:And I think that's just because, you know, I had gotten popular because of being in that clique.
00:33:18Guest 10:And it was just, you know, making people laugh.
00:33:20Guest 10:It was all, I mean, that's just, that was the, I guess, the accidental reward of my defense mechanism all those years of just always trying to be funny.
00:33:29Marc:Well, I'll tell you, you know, the movie's great and you did a great job.
00:33:32Marc:And I think it opened out in L.A.
00:33:34Marc:this week, right?
00:33:35Guest 10:It's going to be opening tomorrow, 9-11 in L.A.
00:33:39Guest 10:and also Washington, D.C.
00:33:40Marc:And then what, are they going to spread it?
00:33:42Guest 10:Yeah, well, it's starting to, I mean, it's been in New York lately.
00:33:45Guest 10:And all over in New York and Staten Island and Philly.
00:33:49Guest 10:And then, yeah, it goes everywhere.
00:33:50Guest 10:Austin, Portland, Seattle.
00:33:53Guest 10:It's going to be all over the country now.
00:33:55Guest 2:I should warn Giants fans before they go to see it, because I felt this personally.
00:34:00Guest 2:If you go see this movie, and I'm not going to give anything away here, but Patton's character does something so horrifyingly anathema...
00:34:09Guest 10:Let's leave it at that.
00:34:11Guest 2:Yeah, it was like my ass-to-ass scene from Requiem for a Dream.
00:34:15Guest 2:Like, it was so painful to me to see you doing that.
00:34:18Guest 2:So I just warn all Giants fans out there.
00:34:22Guest 10:Wow.
00:34:23Guest 10:That's an image.
00:34:24Marc:Now, also, you just released a new CD, My Weaknesses Are Very Strong.
00:34:28Guest 10:My Weaknesses Strong.
00:34:29Marc:My Weaknesses Strong, and I can relate to that.
00:34:32Marc:And you've got a gig coming up on the Science Fiction channel.
00:34:37Guest 10:I got offered this recurring role on Caprica, which, did you ever watch Battlestar Galactica?
00:34:43Marc:Dude, this is where you and I split paths, and you have taken the obviously more appealing road.
00:34:51Marc:I don't watch much of anything.
00:34:52Marc:I'm all about dread panic and revenge fantasies.
00:34:55Marc:That's my entertainment.
00:34:56Guest 10:It's too bad, because especially Battlestar was basically a smuggling mechanism for the biggest tirade against
00:35:05Guest 10:9-11 and the Iraq occupation and abortion and religion.
00:35:10Guest 10:If you watched it, I'll give you, if this helps, I sent the first two seasons to David Cross, who is also not a science fiction fan, and it blew him away.
00:35:22Marc:All right, I'll watch it.
00:35:23Marc:Send me some now.
00:35:25Marc:What happened to me?
00:35:26Marc:How come I'm not on the mailing list anymore?
00:35:27Marc:Where are my comic books?
00:35:28Marc:Where's my DVD?
00:35:29Guest 10:You tend to be a little wandering these days.
00:35:31Guest 10:Your number changes a lot, so you're hard to pinpoint.
00:35:35Marc:All right, well, now I'm going to have to get them.
00:35:37Guest 10:Yeah, you really should watch, especially the second season.
00:35:40Guest 10:You're like, I can't believe they got this on TV.
00:35:42Marc:My friend Matthew tried to tell me to do this, too, and I respect both of you, so I will definitely watch it.
00:35:48Marc:So the show is somehow connected to that?
00:35:51Guest 10:Yeah, I basically play the Jon Stewart of the planet.
00:35:55Marc:Oh, okay.
00:35:56Guest 10:If that makes sense.
00:35:57Marc:And what else you got going on?
00:35:58Marc:You just doing stand-up here and there?
00:36:00Marc:Like it's not enough.
00:36:01Guest 10:For the album and finishing up a book.
00:36:03Guest 10:Come up next year.
00:36:04Guest 10:That's it?
00:36:05Guest 10:That's all you got?
00:36:05Guest 10:That's all I got.
00:36:06Marc:Yeah.
00:36:07Marc:You still living out in Burbank?
00:36:09Guest 10:I am living in Burbank, but we're looking in Los Feliz.
00:36:12Guest 10:But there's nothing right now.
00:36:14Marc:Really?
00:36:14Marc:I would think you could get something now.
00:36:17Guest 10:No, it's just been hard to find something we like.
00:36:19Guest 10:With the baby, you got to find... You know, a cool house is not a baby-friendly house.
00:36:24Marc:How old's your baby?
00:36:25Guest 10:It's going to be five months next week.
00:36:27Marc:Oh, my God.
00:36:27Marc:Don't break it.
00:36:28Guest 10:I'll try not to.
00:36:30Guest 10:All right.
00:36:30Marc:It was great talking to you, Patton.
00:36:32Marc:Thanks for having me on.
00:36:32Marc:All right.
00:36:33Marc:Take it easy.
00:36:33Marc:All right.
00:36:34Marc:Bye.
00:36:43Marc:This is Marc Maron.
00:36:44Marc:This is What the Fuck.
00:36:47Guest 8:Yeah, I wanted to see Big Fan.
00:36:49Guest 8:I want to see Big Fan.
00:36:50Guest 8:That looks good.
00:36:51Marc:Matthew!
00:36:53Marc:Matthew's here.
00:36:53Marc:Time for... What are we going to call this segment?
00:36:56Marc:How about A Few with Matthew?
00:36:58Marc:A Few with Matthew.
00:37:00Marc:Yeah, I saw Big Fan.
00:37:01Marc:And usually that's the kind of movie that... You would ask me to go to.
00:37:05Marc:But I did not ask you.
00:37:06Guest 8:What happened?
00:37:07Guest 8:I went with somebody else.
00:37:09Guest 8:I thought we were friends, Mark.
00:37:11Guest 8:I thought friends ask each other to go see movies that then they can talk about on the podcast.
00:37:15Marc:I had a special... I went with another friend.
00:37:19Guest 8:Oh, yeah?
00:37:20Guest 8:What's his name?
00:37:21Guest 8:What are you, jealous?
00:37:23Guest 8:No, I'm just pointing out when you get obsessive with me, like, where are you?
00:37:27Guest 8:I need to have a sandwich, this whole thing, you know, giving you excuses.
00:37:30Guest 8:And then I have to hear later that you went and saw something that actually, you know, could be constructive for us to go see together.
00:37:35Marc:Okay, all right, let me just, don't make me sound like some sort of desperate, needy friend.
00:37:40Guest 8:I'm just describing the situation.
00:37:42Marc:Here's the bottom line.
00:37:44Marc:We are self-employed people, all right?
00:37:46Marc:You and I are self-employed people, which means we don't work much.
00:37:50Marc:It means that we have time, okay?
00:37:53Marc:And people with time spend time with other people that have time.
00:37:57Marc:And sometimes I just call you because it's sort of like, I'm not doing anything.
00:38:01Marc:Maybe we should go run an errand for me.
00:38:05Guest 8:Oh, I see.
00:38:06Guest 8:So that's the level at which you're slotted to me into your friendship sort of pantheon.
00:38:10Guest 8:I'm the guy to kill time with.
00:38:12Marc:Right.
00:38:12Guest 8:All right.
00:38:13Guest 8:How is that?
00:38:14Guest 8:How am I supposed to take that?
00:38:15Guest 8:I'm not an event guy.
00:38:17Marc:Well, you're supposed to take it like, well, maybe I'll give Mark a call to see if he wants to go pick up a piece of camera equipment and we could have a conversation about things.
00:38:25Marc:See, errands are secondary.
00:38:26Marc:It's a conversation that happens along the way.
00:38:29Guest 8:All right.
00:38:29Guest 8:You know, I'm not actually sure now if I think that's better or worse.
00:38:31Guest 8:In some ways, I think that's more intimate if we're just going to go pick up toilet paper together.
00:38:35Marc:Yeah, I just got exhausted.
00:38:37Guest 8:So you had to think about me for a minute.
00:38:40Guest 8:That's why I drained you.
00:38:40Marc:All right.
00:38:41Marc:All right.
00:38:41Marc:Listen to me.
00:38:42Marc:So we are talking a bit about obsession and I'm trying to remember.
00:38:46Marc:I know I've been obsessed with women and I know been being a.
00:38:51Marc:Yeah, it's past tense.
00:38:52Marc:I'm over that.
00:38:53Marc:I'm waiting.
00:38:54Marc:I just got done with a two-year horrible tunnel of divorce pain.
00:38:59Marc:I'm just coming out of it.
00:39:01Marc:And I'd like to see myself as still enjoying the time of dating and acting out sexually and not being obsessed.
00:39:11Guest 8:What was that, acting out?
00:39:12Marc:Yeah, sexually acting out, dating.
00:39:14Marc:It depends what you want to call it.
00:39:15Marc:I mean, it depends what paradigm you subscribe to, whether it's psychotherapy or romance.
00:39:19Marc:I mean, it's not the issue.
00:39:21Marc:The issue is that— You lost me there.
00:39:23Marc:You lost me.
00:39:24Marc:My feeling is that I think in my life I have not been able to tell the difference between obsession and love.
00:39:31Marc:And I think the only real difference is that if you really love somebody, they can disappoint you.
00:39:37Marc:Whereas if you're obsessed with somebody, if they disappoint you, you have to somehow manage them back into what you believe they should be in your mind of obsession.
00:39:45Guest 8:It's probably started at home, right, Mark?
00:39:48Marc:I don't know.
00:39:49Marc:Have you ever been so obsessed with a woman that all you can do is think about them, that you write them poems that you're embarrassed about later, that you... Totally.
00:39:57Marc:In high school.
00:39:58Marc:Oh.
00:39:59Marc:That was the last time for you?
00:40:00Guest 8:Yeah.
00:40:01Guest 8:That's the last time it seemed less than embarrassing.
00:40:07Marc:All right, I'll be honest with you.
00:40:09Marc:One time when I was a freshman in college, and I'm not embarrassed about all the poetry I've written.
00:40:13Marc:I'm just going to say that.
00:40:14Marc:I know some of you might be out there judging me like, you know, what is this guy, some sort of pussy?
00:40:17Marc:No, poetry is very powerful and it's important.
00:40:20Marc:Of course.
00:40:20Marc:Everything's poetry.
00:40:21Marc:Unfortunately, most people just see it in advertising now.
00:40:24Marc:Do they rhyme, your poems?
00:40:26Marc:Of course they rhyme.
00:40:27Marc:They're all limericks.
00:40:28Marc:You've never written a limerick to a woman?
00:40:30Marc:Nothing impresses a woman more than a limerick.
00:40:32Marc:I'll try it.
00:40:33Marc:I just remember I was so obsessed with this woman when I was a freshman in college.
00:40:37Marc:She was gorgeous.
00:40:38Marc:I mean, literally locked in on her.
00:40:42Marc:And she was engaged, and she was like several years older than me, and she was going to nursing school, and I just...
00:40:49Marc:focused in and eventually talked to her and just kept, I don't know how, but I kept pushing and pushing and pushing until she eventually relented.
00:40:58Marc:It worked?
00:40:59Marc:Yeah.
00:41:00Marc:Whoa.
00:41:00Marc:Yeah.
00:41:01Marc:But the problem was as soon as I got her,
00:41:05Marc:It was over.
00:41:05Marc:I was like, oh.
00:41:06Guest 8:She deflated.
00:41:07Marc:Yeah.
00:41:08Marc:It went away.
00:41:08Guest 8:Well, that just sounds like your ice cream.
00:41:10Guest 8:It sounds just like alcohol.
00:41:12Guest 8:It sounds just like any one thing that you think is going to save you.
00:41:15Guest 8:It's going to make your life worth having.
00:41:17Guest 8:Once you have it, you realize, oh, my God, that was a mental fiction that I totally created.
00:41:23Guest 8:And it's false.
00:41:24Guest 8:Bullshit.
00:41:25Marc:If I can create a big enough menu, I can live life doing all those things.
00:41:29Marc:How many more years do you have?
00:41:30Marc:I could end tomorrow.
00:41:32Guest 8:So it's just like going from one empty thing to the next.
00:41:35Marc:Let's say I get 10 more years.
00:41:36Marc:How many flavors is Ben and Jerry's going to come up with?
00:41:38Guest 8:Yeah.
00:41:39Marc:How much nicotine gum is in there in the world?
00:41:41Marc:An infinite amount.
00:41:42Marc:How many women are there that could potentially destroy my life if I get obsessed with them?
00:41:45Marc:There's an infinite amount.
00:41:46Guest 8:Well, when you put it that way.
00:41:47Marc:How many burners are there to turn off?
00:41:50Marc:It never ends.
00:41:51Marc:There's always going to be burners to turn off, women to obsess on, ice cream to eat, nicotine gum to chew, and television to watch.
00:41:59Guest 8:And then to be alternately disappointed by after each incident.
00:42:02Marc:That's not even bringing in masturbation.
00:42:05Guest 8:Oh, the height of empty.
00:42:08Marc:Why are you negating my hobbies on some level?
00:42:13Guest 8:I wouldn't negate them if I didn't think that there was a viable alternative to replace them with.
00:42:17Guest 8:I mean, wouldn't you rather feel that relief that you get every time you realize the stove is not on without having to go and come back home and see if the stove is turned off?
00:42:27Marc:Are you saying, would I like to have that relief without...
00:42:30Marc:Looking outside me for it.
00:42:32Marc:Yeah.
00:42:32Marc:What are you, un-American?
00:42:34Marc:Yeah.
00:42:34Marc:How do you think this economy works?
00:42:35Marc:This economy is fueled by a feeling of low self-esteem, fear, and feeling incomplete.
00:42:42Guest 8:So you're clinging to the vestiges of your former immaturity is patriotic.
00:42:47Guest 8:You're saying I'm an adult man-child?
00:42:50Guest 8:Well, yeah.
00:42:50Guest 8:I mean, it takes one to know one, granted.
00:42:52Guest 8:But yeah, that's basically what I'm saying.
00:42:54Marc:No, I agree with you, but I'm kind of hooked on a lot of stuff.
00:42:55Guest 8:Yeah, well, you're making it work.
00:42:57Guest 8:Some people can't.
00:42:58Guest 8:You're like a functional, obsessive addict.
00:43:00Guest 8:No, I'm not.
00:43:01Marc:No, I'm not.
00:43:01Guest 8:What do you mean?
00:43:02Guest 8:You're doing work?
00:43:02Guest 8:You're here?
00:43:03Guest 8:There's equipment aimed at you?
00:43:04Marc:I am a beacon of love and light and understanding trying to help the people of the world.
00:43:09Marc:I don't like that part of myself, Matthew, but that part of myself exists.
00:43:12Marc:It's your fuel.
00:43:13Marc:So I live with that part of myself knowing what you're saying is also true.
00:43:17Marc:So I am what you would call a practical Buddhist.
00:43:21Marc:I see the darkness in myself and I feed it.
00:43:23Marc:I see the lightness in myself and I try to keep it hidden.
00:43:27Marc:Isn't that what Buddhism is?
00:43:28Marc:No.
00:43:28Marc:What is it?
00:43:31Guest 8:Oh, man.
00:43:33Guest 8:If you could really feel the emptiness, you wouldn't have to fill it with Haagen-Dazs.
00:43:37Marc:I do feel it.
00:43:38Marc:And if I felt it all the time, I'd be eating Haagen-Dazs now.
00:43:41Marc:But no, I'm talking to you.
00:43:42Guest 8:No, if you could tolerate it.
00:43:43Guest 8:It's about tolerating the emptiness.
00:43:45Guest 8:I'm tolerating it right now.
00:43:47Guest 8:Right now.
00:43:47Guest 8:By talking to me?
00:43:48Marc:Yeah.
00:43:49Marc:And it's barely tolerable.
00:43:51Guest 8:Well, you're doing a good job.
00:43:52Guest 8:You're still smiling.
00:43:53Guest 8:Vaguely.
00:43:54Marc:Oh, no.
00:43:55Marc:No.
00:43:57Guest 8:Trust me, this is something, you know, I'm telling it to myself as much as I'm telling it to you.
00:44:01Guest 8:But to try to paint a weakness as a strength, you know, I don't think that's really going to help you.
00:44:08Marc:Well, let's just paint a weakness as a weakness and say that everybody has them and they're okay.
00:44:13Guest 8:No, you're okay.
00:44:14Guest 8:Did you get the sense I was telling you you're not okay?
00:44:16Marc:I'm just saying that weakness leads to some beautiful moments in life.
00:44:20Marc:Maybe they're sad.
00:44:22Marc:Maybe they're ashamed.
00:44:23Marc:There's shame involved with them.
00:44:24Marc:But there's some beautiful moments to be had through weakness.
00:44:28Marc:I'll agree with that.
00:44:29Marc:All right.
00:44:29Marc:I think we covered this.
00:44:30Marc:Let's get some ice cream.
00:44:32Guest 8:I got to masturbate.
00:44:34Guest 8:Don't do that here.
00:44:36Guest 8:Wait, what if... Just don't do it.
00:44:37Guest 8:Can you see what I'm doing?
00:44:38Guest 8:Stop it.
00:44:38Guest 8:Don't do it here.
00:44:39Guest 8:But I'm hiding.
00:44:40Guest 8:Go to the bathroom!
00:44:41Guest 8:But, Mark... Oh, my God.
00:44:43Guest 8:Brendan doesn't mind.
00:44:46Marc:Brendan is not even looking over here.
00:44:48Marc:This is getting too gay for me.
00:44:49Guest 8:I'm just saying, don't believe your thoughts, Mark.
00:44:51Marc:All right, I'm not going to believe that you're going to sit there and do that.
00:45:05Marc:All right, folks, you know, for a long time, I hosted a couple of different radio shows and I always had this particular right wing caller who would call in and we've arranged that he has this number because it's important that I speak to him occasionally.
00:45:18Marc:So if you could please welcome to the microphone here on What the Fuck with Mark Maron, Lawton Smalls.
00:45:23Marc:Hello, Lawton.
00:45:24Guest 7:Hello, Mark.
00:45:26Guest 7:It's fall.
00:45:27Guest 7:Vacation's over.
00:45:28Guest 7:That means you, Hussein Obama.
00:45:31Guest 7:Did you have fun in Cape Cod, palling around with your elitist friends?
00:45:35Guest 7:You should have spent your vacation clearing brush in Texas.
00:45:39Guest 7:Like President George W., two terms mandate Bush.
00:45:43Guest 7:The time to run and hide is over, and the time to face the autumn of the teabag has begun.
00:45:48Marc:Wait a minute.
00:45:50Marc:Obama took a vacation for a week with his family, and now he's back.
00:45:55Marc:What are you so upset about?
00:45:56Guest 7:The first thing he did when he got back...
00:45:59Guest 7:Mind control experiments on our helpless children while they were in school.
00:46:05Guest 7:I came up with a word for this.
00:46:06Guest 7:Edu-terrorist.
00:46:08Marc:Oh, my God.
00:46:09Marc:Edu-terrorist.
00:46:09Guest 7:Feel free to use that.
00:46:11Marc:Edu-terrorist.
00:46:12Marc:Edu-terrorist.
00:46:13Marc:Nice.
00:46:13Marc:Edu-terrorist.
00:46:14Marc:Yeah, okay.
00:46:14Marc:It was a harmless speech to school kids.
00:46:16Marc:You're out of your mind.
00:46:17Marc:You're out of your mind, Lawton.
00:46:18Guest 7:He's just like...
00:46:19Guest 7:Chairman Mao, he was an edgy terrorist, too.
00:46:22Guest 7:Kids will be forced to wear Mao Obama's Little Red Book, take up ping pong, tai chi, wear collarless jacket.
00:46:30Guest 7:No lapels for an American flag pin.
00:46:33Guest 7:No lapels.
00:46:34Guest 7:Hey, hey, Lawton.
00:46:35Guest 7:Edgy terrorist.
00:46:36Marc:Lawton, Lawton, Poppy Bush gave the exact same kind of speech.
00:46:39Marc:So did Reagan.
00:46:40Guest 7:I got news for you there, Hussein.
00:46:42Guest 7:This ain't no madrasa.
00:46:44Guest 7:You're not going to strong arm a whole generation of American kids into speaking canyon.
00:46:50Guest 7:All those weird clicking sounds, talking drums, polyrhythms.
00:46:54Marc:Lawton, Lawton, Lawton, Lawton, hang on a minute.
00:46:57Marc:Hang on a minute.
00:46:58Marc:Did you actually listen to any of his speech?
00:47:00Marc:Why should I?
00:47:01Guest 7:I don't need to shower with Neil Patrick Harris to know I'm not queer either.
00:47:06Marc:All right, listen.
00:47:07Marc:Why?
00:47:07Marc:Listen to me.
00:47:08Marc:Here's something Obama said to the school kids.
00:47:10Marc:Quote, every single one of you has something you're good at.
00:47:14Marc:Every single one of you has something to offer.
00:47:16Marc:And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is.
00:47:21Marc:That's the opportunity an education can provide.
00:47:24Marc:What is wrong with that, Lawton?
00:47:26Guest 7:Every single one of you has something to offer.
00:47:28Guest 7:Come on, not true.
00:47:30Guest 7:The only thing liberals have to offer is seeds and stems in the bottom of their nickel bag and maybe chlamydia.
00:47:38Marc:All right, okay, well, back up.
00:47:40Marc:How about this quote?
00:47:41Marc:Quote, I've talked about your parents' responsibility for making sure you stay on track and get your homework done and don't spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that Xbox.
00:47:51Guest 7:What's wrong with the TV and the Xbox?
00:47:54Guest 4:Oh, boy.
00:47:55Guest 7:I'll take an advanced degree from the University of Glenn Beck over some master's diploma from Harvard any day.
00:48:02Guest 7:I'd just wipe my dirty place with that.
00:48:04Guest 7:And what is wrong with the Xbox?
00:48:07Guest 7:Xbox is an excellent combat training tool.
00:48:11Guest 7:It keeps young men quiet and focused.
00:48:13Guest 7:and away from books and art and other gay agenda time suckery.
00:48:18Guest 7:You're just so upset there's no video game called Hillary Clinton's on-demand abortion hut for rock band.
00:48:25Marc:All right, Lawton.
00:48:27Marc:I'm going to indulge you a little bit, but I've got to keep going with this.
00:48:30Marc:Here's another quote.
00:48:31Marc:Oh, please.
00:48:31Marc:Here's another quote.
00:48:32Marc:Please more.
00:48:33Marc:Quote.
00:48:33Marc:The story of America isn't about people who quit when things got tough.
00:48:37Marc:It's about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best.
00:48:44Marc:Now, that's real radical stuff.
00:48:46Guest 7:You want to hear the story of America?
00:48:48Guest 7:It's about one group coming to these hallowed shores.
00:48:51Guest 7:and making the next group come and cook and clean for them.
00:48:55Guest 7:You snooze, you lose.
00:48:56Guest 7:Should have got here sooner.
00:48:58Guest 7:Obama's spilling their heads with a lot of liberal goop.
00:49:01Guest 7:T-Bag!
00:49:02Marc:T-Bag!
00:49:03Marc:Now listen to me.
00:49:05Marc:Why does the idea of someone sharing some common sense wisdom threaten you so much, Lawton?
00:49:09Guest 7:Well, it doesn't.
00:49:11Guest 7:T-Bag!
00:49:11Guest 7:Socialism!
00:49:12Guest 7:Communism!
00:49:13T-Bag!
00:49:13Marc:Fascism.
00:49:14Marc:Lawton.
00:49:15Marc:Iditarism.
00:49:16Marc:Lawton.
00:49:16Marc:Communism.
00:49:17Marc:Lawton, is it because no adult ever took an interest in you, never bothered to give you any advice, Lawton?
00:49:26Marc:Hitler.
00:49:26Marc:Is that why?
00:49:27Marc:That's okay.
00:49:32Marc:Let it out.
00:49:34Guest 6:Just before daddy would leave me to go drink Jack Daniels and shoot his squirrels, you'd say Lawton.
00:49:40Guest 6:Now you mind your uncle while I'm gone.
00:49:43Guest 6:He was talking about the TV.
00:49:46Guest 6:Uncle TV.
00:49:48Guest 6:I had me stuck at home all by myself with nothing but cartoons.
00:49:53Guest 6:Eating giant bags of Cheetos by myself.
00:49:57Guest 6:Cheetos aren't a food group, Mark.
00:50:00Guest 6:I didn't have any smart grown-ups like Obama to tell me things that make my life better.
00:50:07Guest 6:I had McGill and Gorilla.
00:50:10Guest 6:I had cartoons.
00:50:14Guest 6:And I had orange Cheeto stains on all ten fingers.
00:50:17Guest 6:And now my head is filled with straws.
00:50:22Marc:I'm sorry, man.
00:50:23Marc:That sounds pretty much exactly like I expected it to, actually.
00:50:30Guest 6:I didn't eat a vegetable till I was 25.
00:50:33Guest 6:I'm filled with chemicals and rage.
00:50:38Guest 6:I'm stupid.
00:50:41Guest 6:I'm so much stupid.
00:50:42Marc:All right.
00:50:42Marc:Well, take it easy, buddy.
00:50:44Marc:Take it.
00:50:44Marc:Pull it together.
00:50:45Marc:All right.
00:50:47Marc:You've still got time to turn things around.
00:50:53Marc:All right.
00:50:55Guest 3:You all right?
00:50:56Guest 3:Wow.
00:50:59Guest 3:Yeah.
00:51:02Guest 7:Hussein's creating sleeper cells of liberal ninjas just waiting for him to give the word to mobilize.
00:51:08Guest 7:I've been stockpiling ammunition now for months.
00:51:11Guest 7:Okay.
00:51:11Marc:All right.
00:51:12Marc:Goodbye, Lawton.
00:51:12Guest 7:Goodbye, Lawton.
00:51:14Guest 7:God loves you.
00:51:15Guest 7:Deal with it.
00:51:27Guest 5:Can you hear the pretzel?
00:51:30Guest 5:Is it distracting?
00:51:33Guest 9:Can you hear the pretzel at all?
00:51:35Guest 9:That's some sharp incisors or molars.
00:51:37Guest 9:What do you grind in there?
00:51:38Guest 5:So you can hear it on the mic, the pretzel?
00:51:40Guest 9:Yeah.
00:51:40Guest 9:Every last tasty morsel.
00:51:43Guest 9:Hold on.
00:51:44Guest 9:And now Mark Maron chews a pretzel.
00:51:46Guest 9:Can you hear the bag?
00:51:49Guest 9:Hold on a minute.
00:51:50Guest 5:There's only two pieces left.
00:51:50Guest 9:Sounds like a fire.
00:51:51Guest 5:Hold on.
00:51:56Guest 5:Can you hear the pretzel?
00:51:57Guest 9:Yeah, don't talk.
00:51:58Guest 9:It's just like music.
00:52:01Guest 5:It's like John Cage music.
00:52:03Guest 5:Let's get some other things going with it.
00:52:05Marc:I have a theory about that.
00:52:06Marc:If you have a spoon and maybe a can, which we don't have, it's very easy to make Tom Waits music.
00:52:15Marc:Hold on.
00:52:16Marc:Maybe I can replicate it.
00:52:19Marc:Give me something a little louder than a pen.
00:52:21Marc:Is there anything in here?
00:52:22Marc:Wait, I'll use this phone.
00:52:25Marc:Hold on, I think this might work.
00:52:26Marc:Hold on.
00:52:28Guest 1:music music music
00:52:46Marc:I want to thank my guests, Patton Oswalt.
00:52:48Marc:Of course, that was Matthew.
00:52:50Marc:If you want to email us, you can email us at WTFpod at Gmail.
00:52:55Marc:You can follow us on Twitter at twitter.com slash WTFpod.
00:53:01Marc:You can also buy my records.
00:53:04Marc:That's right, they're records, but they're available on CD at markmarin.com.
00:53:09Marc:Thank you for listening.

Episode 3 - Patton Oswalt / Lawton Smalls / Matthew

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