Episode 294 - Tony Millionaire

Episode 294 • Released July 4, 2012 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Marc:Really?

00:00:08Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:09Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:12Marc:Pow!

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck?

00:00:14Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Marc:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Marc:It's time for WTF!

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Mark Maron.

00:00:24Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What the fuck in here is what the fuck Hawaiians?

00:00:30Marc:Aloha.

00:00:31Marc:Mahalo.

00:00:33Marc:I'm back.

00:00:34Marc:This is Mark Maron.

00:00:35Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:37Marc:Thank you for hanging in there while I was gone.

00:00:39Marc:I hope it was engaging.

00:00:40Marc:I have been back less than 12 hours.

00:00:43Marc:And for the past 20 minutes, I've tried to get hold of my cab boomer so I can wipe poop off his ass.

00:00:50Marc:So that's my morning.

00:00:52Marc:Good morning.

00:00:53Marc:Hi, Boomer.

00:00:53Marc:What happened to your ass?

00:00:55Marc:Let me see if I can help you.

00:00:56Marc:Oh, you don't want my help?

00:00:58Marc:Oh, now you're running away from me and I'm standing here holding a wet paper towel?

00:01:01Marc:Fine.

00:01:02Marc:Deal with your ass yourself.

00:01:04Marc:That was today already.

00:01:07Marc:I hope you had a nice fourth.

00:01:09Marc:It is the fourth as I'm saying this, so I have not had mine yet, but I hope no one lost any fingers or set themselves on fire.

00:01:15Marc:I hope you reflected on our country's state and what it should be and what the promise was and what it means.

00:01:24Marc:I hope you did all that.

00:01:26Marc:As I said, I have yet to do that.

00:01:29Marc:I was in Hawaii for 10 days on the island of Kauai wearing almost nothing but lacoste shirts and shorts.

00:01:38Marc:and sandals, did some amazing stuff.

00:01:40Marc:I don't know if you've ever been there.

00:01:41Marc:Let's just go down the list of things that happened.

00:01:43Marc:Jessica and I only fought twice.

00:01:47Marc:We fought the first night we got there to sort of establish the vacation, set a tone of what we shouldn't be doing.

00:01:53Marc:And then it was kind of smooth sailing after that.

00:01:57Marc:I'll tell you what, let me just go down the list of things I ate first.

00:02:00Marc:Moco Loco had that.

00:02:01Marc:That is fried rice with Portuguese pork on it, two fried eggs on top of that, smothered in brown gravy.

00:02:08Marc:Awesome.

00:02:09Marc:Did that twice.

00:02:10Marc:Second time, I felt like I was hurting myself.

00:02:13Marc:A lot of shave ice.

00:02:14Marc:Shave ice, very good.

00:02:15Marc:It's a Hawaiian dish where they put a big chunk of ice in the machine, shave it down.

00:02:18Marc:It's like a snow cone, but it's not because it's better, and they put syrup on it, and then you can have some sweetened condensed milk on top.

00:02:24Marc:This is the shameless.

00:02:26Marc:Pokey, supermarket pokey, almost every day.

00:02:29Marc:That's big old chunks of ahi with different types of toppings, perhaps just soy sauce, perhaps some seaweed in there, maybe some spicy mayonnaise.

00:02:38Marc:Come on, Dennis.

00:02:40Marc:God damn it.

00:02:42Marc:Now I got to deal with this.

00:02:43Marc:This is what I'm coming home to.

00:02:47Marc:Can you guys hear that?

00:02:48Marc:Of course you can hear that.

00:02:51Marc:Hey, Dennis.

00:02:54Marc:Dennis.

00:02:56Marc:Hey, buddy.

00:02:56Marc:Can you give me 10 minutes?

00:02:57Marc:Just 10 minutes.

00:02:59Marc:Thanks, buddy.

00:03:01Marc:All right, let's make this happen.

00:03:02Marc:What was I doing?

00:03:03Marc:The list of things I ate?

00:03:05Marc:Dolphins.

00:03:07Marc:I didn't eat dolphins.

00:03:08Marc:I saw dolphins.

00:03:09Marc:Look, I got to be honest with you.

00:03:11Marc:Kauai is the most amazing island in the world.

00:03:14Marc:It's beautiful.

00:03:15Marc:I completely detached.

00:03:16Marc:I only tweeted maybe 10 times, barely emailed anybody, did not masturbate even, just had regular sex.

00:03:25Marc:um no masturbation only ejaculated in an appropriate environment where god meant us to where we are biologically destined to right into the water off of a cliff did not do that should have done that damn it i've got to go back to kawaii i knew there was something i didn't do which was stand on the cliff next to the nepali coast and masturbate into the water that is something the ancient hawaiians did it was in our guidebook fuck

00:03:52Marc:I knew I forgot something.

00:03:54Marc:But let's be honest.

00:03:55Marc:It was very hard being me without distractions.

00:03:58Marc:Just Jessica and I never spent this much time together.

00:04:01Marc:That was challenging for both of us, I think.

00:04:03Marc:It's really interesting when you love somebody and you're with them a long time and you've never really gone on a vacation.

00:04:08Marc:And then you realize about three days into vacation, like, oh, my God, I'm still the same old asshole I've always been.

00:04:15Marc:Now that none of my distractions are here, my girlfriend's going to see exactly who I am.

00:04:20Marc:And I think it went both ways, and we persevered through it, and I think we had a good time.

00:04:24Marc:We took a boat ride.

00:04:25Marc:We were on a boat.

00:04:27Marc:There were like 30 dolphins all around us swimming next to the boat.

00:04:30Marc:We saw giant sea turtles.

00:04:31Marc:We explored these lava flows, not active lava flows, but it's very interesting when you realize that islands are just spit out of the center of the earth in the form of hot goo.

00:04:41Marc:And then just over hundreds of millions of years, they make islands.

00:04:45Marc:And there's so many different terrains on Kauai.

00:04:47Marc:You have rainforest, you have swamp, you have desert.

00:04:49Marc:It was fucking beautiful.

00:04:50Marc:Did I mention the turtles?

00:04:52Marc:Love sea turtles.

00:04:53Marc:Was not asked to be their leader.

00:04:55Marc:The dolphins were mind-blowing.

00:04:57Marc:But you go through a lot of waves on a vacation.

00:04:59Marc:You're like, I'm here.

00:05:00Marc:This is great.

00:05:00Marc:I'm relaxing.

00:05:01Marc:And then a few days into it, you're like, am I relaxing?

00:05:04Marc:And then a day or two after that, you're like, I'm not fucking relaxed at all.

00:05:07Marc:I'm losing my fucking mind.

00:05:09Marc:What the fuck happens, man?

00:05:10Marc:What is happening?

00:05:11Marc:My whole life is going.

00:05:12Marc:We were away.

00:05:13Marc:Now I come back.

00:05:14Marc:All of a sudden, Anderson Cooper's gay.

00:05:16Marc:I mean, we go away.

00:05:17Marc:All of a sudden, like the Supreme Court decides that Obama's health care is solid.

00:05:22Marc:We go.

00:05:22Marc:Everything went on when I was away.

00:05:25Marc:I did have one powerful moment.

00:05:27Marc:First, let me tell you about the movies I watched on vacation because I know that you really want to know about that.

00:05:33Marc:Because they have, what's that thing called?

00:05:34Marc:The Red Box?

00:05:36Marc:They had a red box at the supermarket which became our lifeline to familiar things.

00:05:41Marc:Uh...

00:05:43Marc:We watched 21 Jump Street, which I got some very serious laughs.

00:05:49Marc:Deep laughs.

00:05:49Marc:Enjoyed it.

00:05:50Marc:This movie review time.

00:05:52Marc:We watched Jeff, who lives at home.

00:05:54Marc:I also enjoyed that very much.

00:05:56Marc:We Need to Talk About Kevin.

00:05:57Marc:I watched that.

00:05:57Marc:That's not an uplifting movie.

00:05:59Marc:But Tilden, is that her name?

00:06:02Marc:Tilden?

00:06:02Marc:Tilda Swinton?

00:06:04Marc:It was very good.

00:06:07Marc:We watched Martha Marcy Mary Marlene with the other Olsen sister, which was a very disturbing movie.

00:06:17Marc:So two very disturbing movies, one slightly disturbing but endearing movie, and one funny one.

00:06:21Marc:Very good.

00:06:23Marc:Before I get done with this, I just want to say I'm rested and I'm happy to be back.

00:06:29Marc:And one of the most powerful moments I had was the first day I got to Kauai.

00:06:34Marc:I don't know if you know about Hawaii or Kauai in general, but there's thousands of roosters and chickens everywhere that were brought over there on a boat sometime in the 1800s by the Polynesians and then just...

00:06:43Marc:uh so it's they're they're not indigenous to the island but they're all over the island now giant roosters full-on beautiful roosters with all the beautiful proud feathers and the strutting and the crowing at all hours they no longer know what time it is they're not reliable alarm clocks in kawaii first day there i see a rooster big beautiful proud cock

00:07:08Marc:A fucking rooster.

00:07:10Marc:A man.

00:07:11Marc:And he was limping.

00:07:14Marc:He had a broken foot.

00:07:15Marc:So there was this limping rooster.

00:07:17Marc:But because it's a rooster, he didn't know he was limping.

00:07:21Marc:You know, he was still a proud rooster.

00:07:23Marc:You know, like, I'm the fucking shit.

00:07:25Marc:Look at me.

00:07:26Marc:Yet, he was all fucking hobbly.

00:07:29Marc:But he didn't diminish his stature because he didn't know better.

00:07:33Marc:But I knew.

00:07:34Marc:And I thought, look at that sad limping cock.

00:07:38Marc:And it was sort of touching to me because I thought, boy, that's sort of a metaphor for aging, isn't it?

00:07:43Marc:All that pride.

00:07:44Marc:And you just don't realize that you're being diminished by something you're not fully aware of.

00:07:50Marc:And other people see it, but you don't.

00:07:53Marc:That was a powerful moment.

00:07:55Marc:I tried to read The Power of Now on the toilet.

00:07:58Marc:I brought The Power of Now because I thought, like, maybe there's something to be gleaned in here.

00:08:01Marc:But I only brought it into the bathroom.

00:08:03Marc:And I tried to read it.

00:08:05Marc:That was the only place I read The Power of Now on the toilet.

00:08:07Marc:I didn't get very far into it.

00:08:09Marc:And it didn't really move me.

00:08:11Marc:And I needed movement.

00:08:12Marc:I don't know why that happens to me on vacations.

00:08:14Marc:But I get a little backed up.

00:08:17Marc:And The Power of Now did not help me.

00:08:19Marc:Maybe it's because I needed the power of pow, as somebody said on Twitter.

00:08:22Marc:Yes.

00:08:24Marc:Just coffee.coop.

00:08:26Marc:I did just shit my pants.

00:08:28Marc:On the show today, the creator of Mocky's Drinky Crow, an amazing illustrator and portrait artist, Tony Millionaire.

00:08:39Marc:interesting guy artiste great I've got he's done two portraits of me that's tempered my my point of view but let's talk about my vacation so while I was on vacation I read this book by Richard Zoglund comedy at the edge how stand-up in the 1970s changed America I don't usually read comedy books I don't have any relationship with Mr. Zoglund I don't even know where I got this book

00:09:04Marc:Perhaps he sent it to me.

00:09:05Marc:I don't know.

00:09:06Marc:It came out a few years ago, but this is a fucking amazing book.

00:09:09Marc:If you want to really put stand-up comedy into perspective in terms of its roots, what it means, why it transitioned out of what was just basically...

00:09:20Marc:clowns and comedians into stand-up.

00:09:23Marc:This guy wrote a great book.

00:09:25Marc:It's dense, it's tight, and he picked the right guys.

00:09:29Marc:He sort of starts with Lenny and he goes into Carlin and Pryor and then he goes into Robert Klein, Richard Lewis, Albert Brooks, Steve Martin, Andy Kaufman.

00:09:38Marc:He talks about the New York scene later in the 70s.

00:09:43Marc:It's intellectual, it's intelligent, and the mythology is intact and he really nails it.

00:09:49Marc:And I was thrilled to read it.

00:09:51Marc:And now I need to interview Albert Brooks and Robert Klein.

00:09:54Marc:So could you guys come on, please?

00:09:56Marc:Can we do that?

00:09:57Marc:I should start the fucking show.

00:09:58Marc:This is ridiculous.

00:10:00Marc:Did I mention that I snorkeled a lot?

00:10:02Marc:I snorkeled a lot.

00:10:04Marc:Damn it, I can't.

00:10:05Marc:I should have made notes.

00:10:07Marc:Snorkeling is the greatest thing in the world.

00:10:09Marc:It was the only time on the vacation where I completely got out of my head, lost myself, because there's two things.

00:10:14Marc:You're seeing amazing things.

00:10:15Marc:You're underwater, and you're struggling to breathe on some level.

00:10:18Marc:I did some very on-the-edge snorkeling.

00:10:22Marc:It was spectacular.

00:10:24Marc:I'm going to be at the Ice House this Sunday, July 8th,

00:10:28Marc:uh with a great show i called up pete holmes joe mandy and chelsea peretti to come do the show with me july 8th at 7 p.m it's the ice house in pasadena icehousecomedy.com go get tickets for that if there are any left that's a powerful show all right now let's talk to tony millionaire can we thank you okay good

00:10:58Marc:I think that's good.

00:11:00Marc:Yeah.

00:11:01Marc:Nice, Tony Millionaire on the Millionaire Burp.

00:11:04Marc:That was deep.

00:11:06Marc:Yeah.

00:11:07Marc:You went deep?

00:11:07Guest:I just had a beer before I came in.

00:11:08Guest:I like beer.

00:11:09Marc:You went deep for that one.

00:11:10Marc:You like beer?

00:11:11Marc:Is that your meal of choice?

00:11:13Marc:The King, of course.

00:11:14Marc:I always took The King.

00:11:15Marc:It says The King right on the can.

00:11:17Marc:I don't like the way my headphones sound.

00:11:19Marc:Yeah.

00:11:20Guest:I have bad hearing, so I always wear headphones when I work or when I watch TV.

00:11:25Guest:And it's like I can hear better than everybody in the room.

00:11:27Guest:It's just great having headphones.

00:11:29Marc:Mine does not sound fine.

00:11:30Marc:You have headphones.

00:11:31Marc:You wear an ear thing?

00:11:32Guest:I wear headphones.

00:11:33Marc:All the time?

00:11:33Guest:No, I had a new operation in my ear, so I don't need hearing aid anymore.

00:11:38Guest:Right.

00:11:38Guest:It's amazing.

00:11:39Guest:What'd they do to it?

00:11:40Guest:They cut a piece of the back of my head off, a little tiny piece, and then they stuck it in there to make a fake eardrum because I had a big hole there.

00:11:49Guest:Why'd you have a genetic?

00:11:52Guest:I think it happened when I was 14.

00:11:53Guest:I think it happened in a Yes concert when I was maybe 16.

00:11:56Marc:Yeah, I knew they were not good.

00:12:00Marc:Yeah.

00:12:00Marc:I knew that, yes, they were dangerous on some level.

00:12:03Marc:They were way too close to the edge.

00:12:05Marc:How did you end up at a, oh, you're 14, a yes count?

00:12:07Marc:Did you have an older brother or something?

00:12:08Marc:Maybe 16.

00:12:09Marc:16?

00:12:09Maybe, yeah.

00:12:11Marc:On your own volition, that sounds like something an older brother would drag someone to.

00:12:15Marc:Oh, no.

00:12:15Marc:Are you kidding me?

00:12:15Marc:I loved Yes.

00:12:16Marc:You did?

00:12:16Marc:I loved them.

00:12:17Marc:Especially look at the first album.

00:12:19Marc:Come on.

00:12:19Marc:No, you're talking to the wrong guy.

00:12:21Marc:I mean, I took what I had to from the radio stations that gave it to me, but I never pursued Yes in any active way.

00:12:28Marc:I loved them.

00:12:29Marc:Too complicated for me.

00:12:30Marc:I was a teenager.

00:12:31Guest:Maybe you were a little older than me or younger than me.

00:12:33Guest:I don't even know.

00:12:33Guest:I can't tell.

00:12:34Marc:I'm younger than you.

00:12:35Guest:That's what I figured.

00:12:36Guest:Everybody's younger than me.

00:12:37Guest:But not much.

00:12:38Guest:But still, I mean.

00:12:39Guest:Then you were 12, so you had no idea.

00:12:41Marc:No, I still... I mean, but I came to a lot of music later in life.

00:12:45Marc:In your 40s?

00:12:47Marc:I'm in my 40s.

00:12:48Marc:Yeah, well, of course.

00:12:48Marc:You were four.

00:12:50Marc:Yes, but what I'm saying to you is that when I come to music, I may be out of the time zone, but it's an appreciation thing.

00:12:57Marc:There was too much going on.

00:12:58Guest:Should we put that light on instead of that light?

00:13:00Guest:You can do whatever you want.

00:13:01Guest:I'm very sensitive to both lights.

00:13:03Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:13:04Guest:You feel in the... Sam Henderson once called me when he had to help me move.

00:13:07Guest:He called me Tony Million Lamps because I have...

00:13:10Guest:He had to help me move like 16 lamps out of the house because I like lamps low light all over the house.

00:13:16Guest:Is that better?

00:13:16Guest:That's great.

00:13:17Guest:We good?

00:13:18Guest:This place is really nice.

00:13:20Guest:It's cluttered.

00:13:21Guest:It's cluttered.

00:13:22Guest:It's like my place.

00:13:23Guest:I have a very small garage built for a Model T. Yeah.

00:13:26Guest:And it's very cluttered.

00:13:27Guest:And I have all the corners I need to work in.

00:13:30Guest:I love it in there.

00:13:30Marc:So that's your workspace.

00:13:32Marc:Yeah.

00:13:33Marc:See, now the interesting detail, built for a Model T. Yeah, because it was built in 1920-something.

00:13:39Marc:So you decided that.

00:13:41Marc:Well, I figured it out.

00:13:43Marc:But you did the research because you wanted to picture it when you're sitting in there.

00:13:47Marc:I do, yeah.

00:13:50Guest:At first I thought it was for a horse, but I realized by the 20s they pretty much all had cars.

00:13:55Marc:So, because the only reason I ask that, it seems like a lot of your creativity is drawn from that era.

00:14:02Marc:That's right.

00:14:03Marc:Just after that.

00:14:05Marc:Maybe I am.

00:14:06Marc:So, you like sitting in there thinking like, well, if I wasn't in here, Model T would be in here.

00:14:09Marc:That's true.

00:14:12Guest:Yeah.

00:14:12Guest:Or I could picture a horse with a big blanket on it chewing hay.

00:14:15Guest:Yeah.

00:14:15Guest:With just the feet sticking out of the blanket.

00:14:17Marc:Yeah.

00:14:17Marc:How do you think your mind got so seared by this period?

00:14:22Marc:Because, I mean, I'm a little younger than you, but I certainly grew up watching The Little Rascals on Channel 11 in New Jersey.

00:14:29Guest:Yeah.

00:14:29Guest:The Little Rascals, of course.

00:14:30Guest:I mean, that shit came out in the 20s or the 30s, whatever it was.

00:14:35Guest:Right.

00:14:35Guest:So we all watched it at the same time.

00:14:37Guest:We watched it many, many years later.

00:14:39Guest:And you were able to appreciate it.

00:14:40Marc:Oh, my God.

00:14:40Guest:I loved it.

00:14:41Marc:But you take away my ability to take in Yes properly, and that was only four or five years different.

00:14:46Guest:Yes was a very temporary pleasure for me.

00:14:49Guest:I still don't have Rias records.

00:14:52Guest:I don't say to my wife, honey, could you download the new Yes, the old Yes?

00:14:57Guest:Yeah, you don't have the Yes catalog.

00:14:59Guest:No, I don't.

00:14:59Guest:But you do find yourself... Fragile.

00:15:02Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:15:03Guest:Remember with the Exploded Planet?

00:15:04Guest:I loved it at the time, but it's not one of those things that stuck with me.

00:15:07Guest:Right, but Alfalfa did, Buckwheat did.

00:15:11Guest:America, when I put on Ventura Freeway.

00:15:14Guest:Yeah.

00:15:15Guest:In the sunshine, in the alligator lizards, in the sky.

00:15:21Marc:I love that now, because now I drive on the Ventura Freeway.

00:15:24Marc:The two bands we've referenced so far are America and Yes.

00:15:27Marc:And I did a little Popeye accent.

00:15:29Marc:Well, that's fine, but I'm just having a hard time with American, yes.

00:15:33Marc:I mean, you're talking horse with no name.

00:15:35Guest:Well, yeah, that was their hit.

00:15:37Guest:Nobody likes their hits.

00:15:38Marc:Yeah, but their hit was so shitty, I wouldn't go look at the other stuff.

00:15:42Guest:I never really liked, I always did like Yes when I was a kid.

00:15:45Guest:Roundabout's good, and that's their hit.

00:15:47Guest:That was a time in my life when I really liked music that was just soft and pleasant, easy to listen to.

00:15:53Marc:Yeah.

00:15:54Guest:Where do you come from?

00:15:55Guest:Manchester, Massachusetts.

00:15:57Guest:I say that when I talk about America and yes.

00:16:02Marc:Where do you come from when you talk about maybe your childhood?

00:16:05Guest:Marlboro, Massachusetts.

00:16:06Guest:Marlboro.

00:16:07Guest:Marlboro.

00:16:08Guest:Yeah.

00:16:08Guest:When I was growing up in Marlboro, Massachusetts.

00:16:12Guest:And then we all moved.

00:16:13Guest:By the time I got to high school, we moved to Gloucester.

00:16:15Guest:Gloucester.

00:16:16Guest:And Gloucester is where my whole family lives.

00:16:18Marc:Gloucester.

00:16:19Guest:Yeah, I wanted to be close to my grandparents.

00:16:21Marc:Isn't that a fishing town?

00:16:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:16:23Guest:It's half fishing town, half artists.

00:16:25Guest:I've been to Gloucester.

00:16:27Guest:There was a gig there briefly.

00:16:28Guest:Now it's also commuters because people realize if you drive 45 minutes, you're in Boston and you can get a job.

00:16:33Marc:There was a brief period there where it was artists and drug-addicted fishermen.

00:16:37Guest:Heroin was the... Gloucester was the number one heroin center of the East Coast for a long time.

00:16:43Guest:Were they bringing it in?

00:16:44Guest:I didn't know about it, but I read about it later.

00:16:47Guest:I think it was after you were there.

00:16:49Guest:I think it was that fishermen, when they got home, would want to relax.

00:16:54Guest:Really relax.

00:16:54Guest:Yeah, not with a cocktail.

00:16:55Guest:You can get a cocktail at sea.

00:16:57Guest:Really relax.

00:16:58Guest:I mean like forget it all.

00:17:00Guest:For like a couple of months until the boat went out again.

00:17:03Guest:But you've got a thing for boats.

00:17:06Guest:I love boats.

00:17:07Guest:My grandparents, my grandpa, my grandpop and my Grammy had a studio, a little gallery out on Bearskin Neck in Rockport, which is stuck out on the end of Gloucester.

00:17:19Guest:They were artists.

00:17:20Guest:They're very good artists.

00:17:21Guest:Really?

00:17:22Guest:Yeah, I'll show you pictures.

00:17:22Guest:I have pictures of... I brought you some... Here.

00:17:26Guest:I got all your books.

00:17:27Guest:Good.

00:17:28Marc:Mockies.

00:17:28Marc:Is that how you pronounce it?

00:17:29Marc:This doesn't really work that well on a podcast.

00:17:30Guest:Is this how you pronounce it?

00:17:31Guest:Mockies?

00:17:32Guest:I used to call it Mockies, and then a Jewish person that I knew said, Mockies?

00:17:37Guest:You mean

00:17:37Guest:Mockies?

00:17:39Guest:M-O-C-K-I-E-S?

00:17:40Guest:Yeah.

00:17:41Guest:That means like... What do you call it now?

00:17:42Guest:That means like you stinking hebe if you live in New Jersey or New York.

00:17:46Guest:Who the fuck has ever heard that?

00:17:47Guest:No, it's an old-fashioned thing.

00:17:48Guest:Oh.

00:17:49Guest:And my comic's old-fashioned, so you know.

00:17:51Guest:So what do you say to it now?

00:17:52Marc:How do you pronounce it?

00:17:53Marc:I don't want to say Mackies.

00:17:54Marc:I don't want to make it get anybody upset.

00:17:56Marc:Mackies has that nice New England twang.

00:17:58Marc:I don't want to get anybody upset with my dick and ass jokes.

00:18:01Marc:Yeah.

00:18:01Marc:Mackie, that's how someone from New England pronounces my name if they were calling me Markie.

00:18:06Marc:Mackie!

00:18:07Marc:Mackie!

00:18:07Marc:Mackie.

00:18:08Marc:Kind of like that.

00:18:09Guest:I used to say it rhymes with cockies if you come from Boston.

00:18:14Guest:Mackies.

00:18:14Guest:Cockies.

00:18:16Marc:What was the inspiration?

00:18:17Marc:Because this Mackies is really, and Drunky Crow is your Drunky Crow.

00:18:21Marc:Drunky Crow.

00:18:23Marc:Thank you.

00:18:23Guest:is really that's what launched you this i have these beautiful books i have four beautiful books are there more mackie's books than what i have oh jeez you hear the thump i did on the microphone while i try to pass you the that's a picture a drawing done by my grandfather interesting dude yeah it's very very good you know what's interesting about it is that is that a printer is that a pen and ink that's a drawing look you signed it twice by accident

00:18:47Marc:Yeah.

00:18:47Marc:Well, you know, I do see there's genetic style.

00:18:51Marc:I have the genetic.

00:18:52Marc:That has been passed down with the ink drawing.

00:18:56Guest:Right.

00:18:56Guest:And then the next page is my grandma's watercolor portraits, which are incredible.

00:19:00Guest:But the thing is, they used to paint and draw ships and harbors.

00:19:06Guest:Why don't I have this book?

00:19:07Marc:You have it.

00:19:08Marc:It's in your hand and it belongs to you.

00:19:09Marc:The Art of Tony Millionaire.

00:19:11Marc:This is like a real art book.

00:19:12Marc:This isn't some comic book.

00:19:13Marc:Yeah, that's a present I gave you so that you won't be mean to me.

00:19:17Marc:This is beautiful.

00:19:18Marc:Why would I be mean to you?

00:19:19Marc:I've never heard you be mean to anybody.

00:19:22Marc:Well, that's not true.

00:19:23Marc:I haven't heard you be mean to anybody.

00:19:25Marc:I've been mean to people.

00:19:27Marc:Okay.

00:19:27Guest:This is you in when with the...

00:19:29Guest:That's me in high school.

00:19:31Guest:I rented an Admiral's outfit costume from a costume store.

00:19:35Guest:For what?

00:19:35Guest:Senior prom.

00:19:36Guest:You went in an Admiral's costume.

00:19:38Guest:Are you still with that woman?

00:19:39Guest:No.

00:19:40Guest:I got her to be my date because Danny Smith was too shy to go out with her, so I got to go out with her.

00:19:46Marc:And look at these, are these early, these pictures of drawings of homes?

00:19:50Guest:Those are drawings of houses.

00:19:51Guest:I did those, I started in college doing that and I almost never quit.

00:19:56Guest:I did it for 20 or 30 years just because it's constant work and it's, you know, sometimes it's really hard to get the work, but it's always there.

00:20:04Marc:What, to draw houses?

00:20:05Marc:Yeah.

00:20:05Marc:Well, what do you mean?

00:20:06Marc:You draw the house and then you go up to the person that owns the house and say, look.

00:20:09Guest:Okay.

00:20:10Guest:I'd be in New York City.

00:20:11Guest:I'd walk up to Westchester.

00:20:12Guest:I took the train to Westchester County.

00:20:14Guest:Yeah.

00:20:14Guest:I'd walk along the neighborhood.

00:20:16Guest:I used to knock on doors, but the cops stopped me from that.

00:20:19Guest:Yeah.

00:20:19Guest:So, I had a little card printed up with a drawing of a house, beautiful pen and ink drawing of a house.

00:20:23Guest:Yeah.

00:20:24Guest:And just a house.

00:20:25Guest:Right.

00:20:25Guest:I don't want to say random house because my kids keep saying the word random.

00:20:28Guest:Yeah.

00:20:29Guest:So I would take and I put it in mailboxes and inside it said you can have a drawing of your house if you call me and we can have Christmas cards made or whatever.

00:20:38Guest:And the drawing is like 14 by 17.

00:20:40Guest:How much did you sell that for?

00:20:41Guest:Like 200 bucks.

00:20:43Guest:And they would call me and I'd go up and draw their house for 200 bucks.

00:20:47Guest:And if I could get at Christmas time, I'd get like five a week, which I was cranking them out.

00:20:53Guest:The day after Christmas, I would get zero a week for a long time.

00:20:57Guest:So it was very seasonal.

00:21:00Marc:All right, so was that the beginning of your artistic career?

00:21:03Marc:Was that going house to house and offering illustrations for holiday cards?

00:21:10Guest:The cards part was kind of a ruse because people would call and say, yeah, great, now I want to get the cards.

00:21:15Guest:Somebody actually called and said, can I get the cards without having to pay for the drawing?

00:21:20Guest:And I said, no.

00:21:21Guest:Yeah, you can, but they'll just be a blank piece of paper folded.

00:21:24Marc:So you would actually make the cards yourself as well?

00:21:27Guest:No, what I would actually do was tell them I'd find a printer in the neighborhood, whatever neighborhood I was in.

00:21:32Guest:I did it in Berlin.

00:21:34Guest:I did it in Boston.

00:21:35Guest:I actually did it in L.A.

00:21:36Guest:when I first moved out just for like a couple of houses.

00:21:38Guest:I did Tina Sinatra's house as soon as I got out of here.

00:21:41Guest:What, you tracked her down in some weird book?

00:21:43Guest:No, she just happened to call me.

00:21:44Guest:She said that her sister, what's her name?

00:21:47Guest:Boots are walking you.

00:21:48Guest:Nancy found it in her mailbox and gave it to her.

00:21:53Guest:You coincidentally did Nancy Sinatra's house?

00:21:55Guest:No, Nancy Sinatra's truck.

00:21:57Guest:I coincidentally put a card in Nancy Sinatra's mailbox.

00:22:01Guest:Oh, okay.

00:22:02Marc:So she gave it to her friend.

00:22:03Marc:Before we get too far away from the music, tell me about this period of your life where you had an accordion.

00:22:10Guest:I can play the accordion, but there's only one song that I can play.

00:22:16Guest:So this picture is really... It sounds sort of like this.

00:22:18Guest:And then if I play it loud enough, it's just the three, if you hold the accordion backwards and push with your right hand the buttons that are the chords, the little buttons, you push the first, second, third, and fourth over and over, you get this dirge.

00:22:42Guest:Then you can sing a song along with it.

00:22:44Guest:Play it slowly and loud.

00:22:46Guest:Sure.

00:22:46Guest:And that's all you got?

00:22:47Guest:That's it.

00:22:48Marc:Okay.

00:22:48Guest:Is that, you know, okay.

00:22:50Guest:So there's a picture of me in Berlin when I was, you know, trying to just be a performance artist because I was broken.

00:22:55Marc:Was it a Tony Millionaire show also the Berlin period?

00:22:58Guest:Tony Millionaire show started in Boston.

00:23:00Guest:Yeah.

00:23:00Guest:And I brought it to, I didn't do any in Berlin because they all thought I was full of shit.

00:23:05Guest:But then I started them again in New York.

00:23:06Guest:When you were in college?

00:23:08Guest:In Boston.

00:23:09Guest:No, I was not in college.

00:23:10Guest:It was just I was hanging around a lot of college people.

00:23:13Guest:See, I went to Mass Art.

00:23:14Guest:Sure.

00:23:14Guest:Massachusetts College of Rock.

00:23:16Guest:That means that everybody that I knew from then, since then, has somehow been connected to performance art, music art, whatever.

00:23:23Marc:Well, back when you were there, that was really the heyday of performance art.

00:23:26Marc:What was that, like mid-'80s?

00:23:28Marc:It was.

00:23:28Marc:That was when it was full of thrust and momentum and food and fluids and foam.

00:23:36Marc:Exactly.

00:23:37Marc:There was a lot of fun going on there.

00:23:39Marc:Yeah.

00:23:40Guest:Massive.

00:23:41Guest:It was hilarious, fun.

00:23:43Marc:What did you do?

00:23:44Guest:What was your performance art past?

00:23:46Guest:I didn't do performance art then.

00:23:47Guest:I was a painting major.

00:23:48Guest:Because I went to the school when I first got there as a young freshman, an idiot standing around going, I guess I can maybe do this for a living somehow.

00:23:57Guest:And I wanted to go to the illustration department because I knew maybe I'd be able to make some money.

00:24:01Guest:But I was so lazy, I knew I never would.

00:24:03Guest:Because those guys work.

00:24:05Guest:Yeah.

00:24:06Guest:And fortunately, the illustration boss said, you came in late.

00:24:12Guest:Your portfolio is a mess.

00:24:13Guest:It's got ink all over it and smears and shit all over it.

00:24:17Guest:You should try the painting department.

00:24:21Guest:Thank God he did.

00:24:22Guest:You're halfway there.

00:24:23Guest:It is such a different world.

00:24:27Guest:You go to the painting department and you're like, okay, get a piece of whatever you can find and paint on it.

00:24:31Guest:Let's go.

00:24:32Guest:How's your sense of color?

00:24:34Guest:Not as good as it should be for a painting major.

00:24:36Guest:Yeah.

00:24:37Guest:I mean, I did some really beautiful paintings.

00:24:40Guest:Yeah.

00:24:40Guest:But they had kind of one color scheme that I really liked, which was very dark and muddy oil paintings.

00:24:45Guest:Uh-huh.

00:24:46Guest:But they were really, I love the fact that when you do this dark and oil muddy paintings, there's a certain type, there are certain like Elizabeth Crimson's and stuff that you can do and put down that like glow right in the middle of it like a coal on fire.

00:24:59Guest:Yeah.

00:24:59Guest:And then you can see it coming through all the other bullshit that you put on top of it.

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:02Guest:So I really liked my opinion.

00:25:04Guest:I loved getting that sort of really old-fashioned painting glow without having to actually know how to paint a guy's helmet.

00:25:14Guest:So you did abstracts with an old-fashioned feeling?

00:25:17Guest:kind of abstract it was kind of like a lot of like cow bellies cows bellies walking through a field but a weird hellish field you know sure cows that are in hell up close real close so you just got udders in flame yeah that should be the name of your next book yeah

00:25:36Marc:Utters in lava.

00:25:38Marc:Utters in lava.

00:25:40Marc:It was like, they were like that.

00:25:41Marc:So, all right.

00:25:42Marc:So from there, from mass art, you were seduced by the idea of Berlin, I assume?

00:25:50Marc:I was seduced by a broken heart, yeah.

00:25:52Guest:A broken heart.

00:25:53Guest:So you left the country?

00:25:55Guest:My girlfriend, Kathy Izzo, who is now the love artist, she calls herself, which means that she loves everybody.

00:26:03Guest:Oh, really?

00:26:04Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:26:04Guest:That's her new thing?

00:26:05Guest:Yeah, you can hire her for like a half a day to love you or a full day is a little bit more.

00:26:09Guest:How deep does that love go?

00:26:10Guest:What does that entail?

00:26:12Guest:I'm told it doesn't entail like penetration.

00:26:15Guest:But anything up to that?

00:26:16Guest:Yeah.

00:26:18Guest:It's like she hugs you and stares into your face.

00:26:20Guest:How's she doing business-wise?

00:26:22Guest:I don't know.

00:26:23Guest:You don't talk to her?

00:26:24Guest:No.

00:26:24Guest:I do talk to her, but I don't ask her how much you're making.

00:26:26Guest:How do you talk to your... That might be embarrassing.

00:26:28Marc:You talk to the woman that broke your heart?

00:26:29Guest:You don't talk to artists about that.

00:26:30Guest:What?

00:26:31Guest:You talk to the woman that broke your heart?

00:26:33Guest:Very rarely, because I do not like to keep up... This whole thing, let's be friends.

00:26:38Guest:We can be friends.

00:26:38Guest:We can't be friends.

00:26:39Guest:But the first thing you're going to say when we're friends is about you and your boyfriend.

00:26:43Guest:Right.

00:26:43Guest:I don't want to hear that.

00:26:44Guest:Right.

00:26:44Guest:I mean, it's going on, what, 30 years now?

00:26:46Marc:That was, yeah, many years ago.

00:26:48Marc:You still feel like you can pull that... Well, she keeps sending me emails.

00:26:52Marc:About what?

00:26:52Marc:The love thing?

00:26:53Marc:Yeah.

00:26:53Guest:Yeah, and every wife or girlfriend I've been with at the time is like, who's this Kathy?

00:26:57Guest:He just keeps coming around, talking about the Coachella and going to eat.

00:27:02Guest:What's that drug they take out in the middle of the woods?

00:27:05Guest:The Cochinella?

00:27:06Marc:Yeah.

00:27:06Guest:Yeah, and they, you know.

00:27:09Guest:And that's how it goes.

00:27:10Guest:Yeah.

00:27:10Guest:How many times have you been married?

00:27:11Guest:I've been married once.

00:27:13Guest:Well, actually twice, if you count the time that I got married as a performance artist.

00:27:18Guest:It wasn't really a performance artist.

00:27:20Guest:I was in Berlin.

00:27:21Guest:I put an ad in the paper that said, student of art will do anything for money.

00:27:27Guest:Call now.

00:27:29Guest:I got a lot of offers for massages for men.

00:27:33Guest:I got a lot of...

00:27:35Guest:A guy called and said, I want you to teach English to my daughter.

00:27:38Guest:Did you?

00:27:39Guest:Really?

00:27:39Guest:How old is she?

00:27:40Guest:She said, one.

00:27:42Guest:I said, does she speak German yet?

00:27:43Guest:He said, no, but I wanted to raise her bilingual.

00:27:46Guest:So you want me to move in?

00:27:48Guest:So I say, the baby, if the baby says in, like, go, go, go.

00:27:53Guest:I have to say, no, you say, go, go, go.

00:27:55Guest:Yeah.

00:27:55Guest:Go, go, go.

00:27:57Guest:Yeah, not go.

00:27:58Guest:Go.

00:27:59Guest:Go, go.

00:28:00Guest:No, that's Dutch.

00:28:00Marc:Yeah.

00:28:01Marc:Oh, sorry.

00:28:02Marc:I'm not good at my baby language impressions.

00:28:05Guest:so tell me so one woman called and said I want to be married I'm Turkish and I can't Turkish woman she couldn't get a career anywhere so she needed to be American so I married her for a thousand marks how did she get her thing yeah then three years later got a divorce in the mill that was it that's a hell of a performance art that's a long performance art piece that's a three-year did you did you document the closure as and then try to find the audio I documented the clothing okay for the wedding

00:28:31Guest:That's pretty absurd.

00:28:32Guest:So you did a marriage publicly as a performance art piece.

00:28:35Guest:Very publicly.

00:28:36Guest:But if I had done it in Turkey or in America, I would have had to look respectable.

00:28:41Guest:Right.

00:28:42Guest:But it was in Germany, so the Germans didn't give a shit one way or the other about an American or a Turk.

00:28:46Guest:Did you have an audience for this?

00:28:47Guest:I had a group of people that were friends of mine who laughed and laughed the whole way through.

00:28:52Marc:Did you get them all back together for the divorce?

00:28:56Marc:No, that came in the mail.

00:28:58Marc:Well, did you send them a copy?

00:28:59Marc:Because that's the end of the piece.

00:29:01Marc:I mean, you should have sent out just an announcement that that piece that I did that we started three years ago is now over.

00:29:09Marc:I didn't want to give them that cookie.

00:29:13Marc:Just left it open.

00:29:14Guest:The closure is like a little piece of candy.

00:29:17Marc:You don't need the candy.

00:29:18Marc:Hey, I'm a comic and I agree with you completely.

00:29:21Marc:I think punchlines are for pussies.

00:29:22Guest:Yeah.

00:29:23Guest:Yeah.

00:29:24Guest:Listen, that's interesting you say that because that's why I came up with the bottom strip on Marky's.

00:29:29Guest:I was going to ask you about that.

00:29:31Guest:Because a lot of people, when I first started doing it, I did it under a different name in a little weekly thing in Brooklyn.

00:29:40Guest:And a lot of people would say, I don't get it.

00:29:42Guest:What are you doing?

00:29:42Guest:I don't get it.

00:29:44Guest:Oh, well, do you get this?

00:29:45Guest:Yeah.

00:29:45Guest:And I put a little bottom thing at the bottom, a little strip at the bottom.

00:29:49Guest:The chicken goes across the road.

00:29:50Guest:Very simple.

00:29:51Guest:And then he got to the other side.

00:29:52Guest:Get it?

00:29:53Marc:Yeah.

00:29:54Marc:So to counter the abstract, you put something that idiots could understand.

00:29:59Guest:Gary Panter once asked me, Tony, you're doing really well with this thing in the New York press.

00:30:04Guest:I want to get a strip going.

00:30:06Guest:Gary Panter, the famous great, the greatest, one of the greatest cartoonists and artists around.

00:30:10Guest:Interesting artist.

00:30:11Guest:And he, I said, well, you got it.

00:30:13Guest:Well, number one, your comics are fantastic with the chicken riding on on the big giant truck, running over everybody and shooting each other with a shotgun.

00:30:20Guest:But you got to have a joke.

00:30:21Guest:You got to end it with a joke.

00:30:23Guest:He was hung up on punchlines, too.

00:30:24Guest:And he's going to come up with that line.

00:30:25Guest:He said, I don't want to give them that cookie.

00:30:27Guest:Gary Panther.

00:30:28Guest:Gary Panther.

00:30:29Guest:So he never, no H. Yeah.

00:30:31Guest:So he never got a strip.

00:30:32Guest:He couldn't get a strip.

00:30:34Marc:I remember that guy's work.

00:30:35Marc:I mean, he was all over the place for a while.

00:30:37Marc:Late 80s.

00:30:39Guest:Jimbo.

00:30:39Marc:Yeah.

00:30:40Guest:A lot of 70s punk.

00:30:42Guest:Yeah.

00:30:43Guest:70s, 80s California punk.

00:30:44Guest:So when you were in Berlin, what year was that?

00:30:46Guest:I was in Brooklyn doing big, beautiful, expensive paintings.

00:30:49Guest:When I was where?

00:30:50Guest:In Berlin.

00:30:51Guest:84-ish for five years.

00:30:54Guest:So what was that like?

00:30:55Guest:84-ish for five years means either way, either direction.

00:30:58Guest:But Berlin, it was still communist, half of it.

00:31:01Guest:Yes, that was what was good about it.

00:31:03Guest:That's why I won't go back.

00:31:04Guest:They tore that fucking wall down.

00:31:06Guest:That's the end of it for me.

00:31:07Guest:Yeah, everything's open now.

00:31:09Guest:Yeah, who cares?

00:31:10Guest:Just another city in Germany.

00:31:11Marc:Yeah.

00:31:11Marc:What was it like?

00:31:13Marc:What was the tension of it?

00:31:14Marc:I mean, people, like, there have been people, like, my point of reference is, you know, David Bowie recorded Heroes there, I think.

00:31:20Marc:Didn't he?

00:31:21Marc:Like, there's a darkness to it.

00:31:22Marc:When Lou Reed's Berlin, you know, all the, it seemed like it was sort of like nouveau decadent.

00:31:29Guest:yeah it's true if you live there for a while when you first go there you feel that because there's a lot of clouds yeah especially in the winter you go there and it's clouds and it stinks like coal because everybody has a coal oven do you ever go there?

00:31:42Marc:no you're too late I just pictured you know over there

00:31:48Marc:Cigarette holders, people being very affected and strung out.

00:31:55Marc:A lot of people trying to fuck but not being able to because they're too wasted.

00:32:00Marc:But it's all very decadent and romantic.

00:32:03Guest:That's the mythology of it.

00:32:04Guest:oh what it really is is if you're in germany and you don't want to go into the army if you go in those days anyway if you went into berlin you didn't have to go in the army why because the people that live in berlin are exempt from the military service because it's like berlin we have to save you know we get people to stay there whatever oh because it was half occupied they didn't want people to run away from it it was an island in the middle of communist germany right

00:32:30Guest:A lot of foreigners came there.

00:32:32Guest:I knew a lot of French people and some American people.

00:32:35Marc:It was a free-for-all because they just wanted... It was almost like not lawless, but the romantic idea of it is that it was a safe haven for freaks.

00:32:46Guest:Exactly.

00:32:47Guest:A safe haven for freaks, but definitely not lawless.

00:32:49Guest:There was a mayor.

00:32:50Guest:There was a real government.

00:32:51Guest:There were real people.

00:32:52Guest:And there were a lot of working class people that worked there and lived there.

00:32:55Guest:But there was also a section of it called Kreuzberg.

00:32:57Guest:Kreuzberg was where they let all the hippies and freaks live and the punks.

00:33:02Guest:And they were squatting houses left and right all over the place.

00:33:06Guest:And the cops would come in and big, giant armies of cops to kick them out.

00:33:10Guest:And they were like, OK, we'll squat this one then.

00:33:13Guest:So the big house squatting movement was going on big there.

00:33:16Guest:so for me it was great because i could move into a squatted house where there was uh not free you had to pay like 50 bucks a week or something to live there because you know they had to pay for utilities food paint plaster nails whatever yeah and there was like women

00:33:35Guest:So when you talk about Berlin being a place where nobody was having sex because they're all like, oh my God, it's so dark in here.

00:33:43Guest:Man, my cigarette holders dropped the cigarette.

00:33:46Guest:I was talking out my ass.

00:33:49Guest:Yeah.

00:33:50Guest:No, you weren't talking out your ass.

00:33:51Guest:You were talking about what the real image of Berlin is.

00:33:54Guest:It was.

00:33:55Yeah.

00:33:55Guest:But what it was was just like, it was like fucking college town.

00:33:58Marc:Yeah.

00:33:59Guest:But everybody was kind of organized because they're Germans.

00:34:03Guest:Like the squadron house, I stayed at one time.

00:34:05Guest:They had a big meeting.

00:34:05Guest:They used to have a big meeting every Monday night.

00:34:07Guest:And one night, I'd been there for like almost a year, but as a guest, not as a full member.

00:34:12Guest:So they had Monday meeting.

00:34:15Guest:And then you have to come.

00:34:17Guest:They ring a bell.

00:34:18Guest:Ding, ding, ding.

00:34:19Guest:Plenum.

00:34:20Guest:So you have to go to the plenum.

00:34:21Guest:And I was sitting there, as usual, just listening.

00:34:24Guest:I couldn't understand what they were talking about because they're talking German.

00:34:27Guest:Yeah.

00:34:28Guest:I kind of thought they all spoke English and they all spoke German to their grandmother.

00:34:32Guest:But they speak it all the time.

00:34:34Guest:Yeah, they're German.

00:34:35Guest:Yeah.

00:34:36Guest:It was a surprise to me.

00:34:38Yeah.

00:34:38Guest:and so they they all did you ever go come on you guys knock it off yeah let's get on the same page here the problem it was really hard to learn German because they all actually when you said come on you guys they all started speaking English yeah they did right yeah so at one point they said uh Tony one of them just stops Tony I'm like whoa what yeah

00:34:58Guest:what day of the week does the trash go out i was like uh wednesday i didn't know i guess yeah and they're like then they all turned to each other go you see the argument went on and on i realized they were arguing about me whether you were in or out whether i was in or out whether i knew shit like when what is the trash whether i was a member of the see you were the problem community you were the problem at the squad i was one of the problems

00:35:21Guest:And what'd you do there?

00:35:22Guest:You just sat around and drew pictures?

00:35:23Guest:Well, I got kicked out.

00:35:24Guest:That's what I did there.

00:35:25Guest:Then what happened?

00:35:25Guest:They kicked me.

00:35:26Guest:I had to go into another squat.

00:35:27Guest:I squatted my own garage.

00:35:29Guest:I had no toilet.

00:35:30Guest:I had to pee out the window.

00:35:31Guest:Yeah.

00:35:32Marc:Yeah.

00:35:32Marc:But what was your commitment to that place?

00:35:34Marc:Why wouldn't you leave at that point?

00:35:35Marc:Free place to live, man.

00:35:37Marc:Okay, man.

00:35:39Marc:But did you just... I mean, artistically... I was a foreigner.

00:35:45Marc:I didn't have... But were you thriving?

00:35:47Marc:I mean, was it feeding your creativity?

00:35:49Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:35:50Marc:Like, what did you do?

00:35:51Marc:You had no money?

00:35:53Guest:I was an artist.

00:35:54Guest:But what kind of art were you doing?

00:35:56Guest:Amazing, crazy performance art, beautiful paintings.

00:35:59Guest:What was the performance art?

00:36:00Guest:Accordion-oriented?

00:36:02Guest:Performance art that I did while I was in Berlin.

00:36:04Guest:The best stuff I did was something for a band called the Wonderful Guys.

00:36:07Guest:yeah they were um three black guys from la yeah one of them is uh mark stewart whose name now known as stew who just did a got an award in broadway he won tony or something for whatever but anyway they also had a band called the negro problem other people in la probably know about them and anyway when they were there this was before all that

00:36:30Guest:they had a band called the wonderful guys and the wonderful guys um they would play they were not very good because they would let anybody in the band anybody and girlfriends whatever it was totally yoko like sick yokos all in one band wow and i did sculptures made out of um stuff i got from the slaughterhouse like uh slaughtered heads i would go there and buy like four or five heads yeah

00:36:54Guest:And then I'd hook them up to motors.

00:36:56Guest:So they'd make these giant dinosaur-like puppets that were above the band dancing around.

00:37:01Guest:And we'd decorate them with... And they stunk?

00:37:04Guest:Branches and shit.

00:37:06Guest:No, they were fresh, so they didn't sink yet.

00:37:07Marc:They stunk the next day.

00:37:08Marc:So you got them out there.

00:37:09Marc:You went to this water house, picked up heads, pieces, legs maybe.

00:37:13Marc:Yeah, ribs.

00:37:14Marc:Ribs.

00:37:14Marc:Ribs stunk because if they were pork, it stunk.

00:37:17Marc:And this is long before...

00:37:19Marc:well maybe like who well what's that dardis's name that kind of damius yeah yeah the pt barnum of uh of uh dead things he puts them in plastic so they won't smell yeah let's let's float that carcass i can move this for a few hundred grand

00:37:40Marc:Yeah, my shit wouldn't sell for even the price of meat.

00:37:44Marc:No, it was for the moment, bro.

00:37:45Marc:It was for the moment, bro.

00:37:46Marc:Yeah, and then we got to get that shit out of here before it fucks up the squat.

00:37:49Marc:One time we didn't get it out of there and it did fuck up the squat.

00:37:52Marc:I bet it did.

00:37:52Marc:We got maggots all over the place.

00:37:54Guest:We didn't get it out of there and the cops raided the place the next day.

00:37:57Guest:because they heard about the party.

00:37:58Guest:And there was an article in the newspaper that said, Chaotics steal and slaughter a horse.

00:38:05Guest:They roasted the horse under open skies in the courtyard.

00:38:09Guest:They ate the poor animal.

00:38:11Guest:Really?

00:38:12Guest:They left the carcass to rot.

00:38:13Guest:Yeah, it was a fucking cow head.

00:38:16Marc:But they framed you.

00:38:17Marc:They were like, this is the problem.

00:38:21Marc:We've got this American provocateur eating our horses.

00:38:24Marc:Yeah.

00:38:25Guest:And who knew you would end up in a garage for a Model T?

00:38:28Guest:Let's continue one train of thought.

00:38:30Guest:Yes.

00:38:30Guest:The broken heart was because Kathy Izzo decided we were going to go to Berlin.

00:38:34Guest:We were going to get big dogs and black coats and we were going to walk around in Berlin and be like that myth that you mentioned.

00:38:39Guest:Yeah.

00:38:40Guest:Well, then she, while we were getting ready, she fell in love with some German guy in Boston and

00:38:45Guest:Before you left for Germany?

00:38:47Guest:Yeah, then they went to Berlin.

00:38:48Guest:But you already had plans to go there?

00:38:50Guest:Yeah.

00:38:50Marc:So she was there?

00:38:51Marc:Yeah.

00:38:52Guest:And you saw her around?

00:38:54Guest:No, she only stayed, lasted like two months.

00:38:57Guest:She said, it's a terrible town.

00:38:58Guest:They just sit around smoking cigarettes under bare light bulbs.

00:39:01Guest:Isn't that what you signed up for?

00:39:02Guest:Yeah, but I found it to be much more entertaining than that.

00:39:07Guest:So I went to Rome instead.

00:39:08Guest:I lived there for like five months.

00:39:09Marc:You were stealing body parts and hooking them up to machines.

00:39:12Marc:Stealing.

00:39:12Marc:Hanging out with black guys.

00:39:14Marc:I paid for them.

00:39:14Marc:Oh, you did?

00:39:15Marc:I did.

00:39:16Marc:Slaughterhouse.

00:39:17Marc:Oh, so they were usable parts.

00:39:19Marc:They weren't garbage.

00:39:20Guest:One time a guy, a slaughterhouse man, pulled out a big crate on wheels, and it was filled with heads, fresh.

00:39:27Guest:And the heads, the eyeballs.

00:39:28Guest:Cowheads.

00:39:29Guest:Cowheads, yeah.

00:39:30Guest:But the skin off, the neck, of course, and the body off.

00:39:34Guest:And the eyeballs were rolling around, and the cheeks were twitching.

00:39:38Guest:And I looked at him, and I'm like...

00:39:39Guest:I looked at the guy and he goes, ganz frisch.

00:39:43Guest:Yeah, it sure is.

00:39:46Marc:Which in Germany means very fresh.

00:39:48Marc:So I just picture you looking at Izzo, you know, holding heads, saying, you don't know how to live.

00:39:54Marc:Yeah.

00:39:54Marc:You coward.

00:39:55Marc:You coward.

00:39:56Marc:You left this place months ago.

00:39:57Guest:Did she leave with her man?

00:39:59Guest:She stayed with that guy?

00:40:00Guest:Yeah, she got married and had three kids.

00:40:01Marc:With him?

00:40:02Guest:Yeah, then she became a lesbian and lived in Provincetown.

00:40:04Guest:See what she avoided?

00:40:05Guest:Now she's not a lesbian anymore.

00:40:06Marc:Oh, God.

00:40:07Guest:She's a love artist.

00:40:08Guest:Sure, man.

00:40:09Guest:Sure.

00:40:11Guest:We can keep it on the surface.

00:40:12Guest:No, the German guy owes me because I didn't put my foot into that tangled mass of snakes.

00:40:17Marc:And the broken heart, it worked for you.

00:40:18Marc:You were angry.

00:40:19Marc:You stayed in Berlin longer than she did.

00:40:22Marc:You paid penance.

00:40:24Marc:Yeah.

00:40:24Marc:By not knowing when to take the trash out at a squat?

00:40:29Marc:You did your time.

00:40:30Marc:I did.

00:40:31Guest:Not only that, I had a broken heart when I was 24 years old, 23.

00:40:35Guest:When you have a broken heart when you're 23 and then your broken heart is over when you're 24, that's perfect.

00:40:40Guest:That's what makes life.

00:40:41Guest:Yeah, it only took you a year to get over that shit?

00:40:43Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:40:43Marc:Come on.

00:40:43Guest:Well, no, it took me a long time to get over that.

00:40:45Guest:That was my first love.

00:40:47Guest:Broken hearts are a bitch.

00:40:48Guest:Yeah, they're a bitch, but when you're in your 20s, you're supposed to have that.

00:40:52Marc:Sure.

00:40:53Guest:That makes you into an artist or a poet.

00:40:55Marc:Right.

00:40:55Marc:Or a comic.

00:40:56Marc:Or dead.

00:40:57Marc:Yeah, there's a lot of ways.

00:40:58Marc:Or hate women.

00:40:59Marc:There's a lot of ways.

00:41:00Guest:When you're in your 20s and you have a broken heart, if you're not messed up with heroin, it usually doesn't end in suicide.

00:41:07Marc:doesn't end suicide but it could it could suicide comes usually in your 30s when you're like then you have a broken heart and then you realize oh fuck I'm a junkie and then you kill yourself yeah or else you're just broken hearted by your disappointment yeah yeah with everything yeah no you're right you're right it takes four or five things and then a broken heart to actually kill yourself yeah no the broken heart thing's just miserable because uh there's you know the there's a broken heart but then there's the pride involved yeah yeah well let's not do that

00:41:36Marc:No.

00:41:37Marc:Let's not get into that thing.

00:41:39Guest:Well, that's what all my work is about now.

00:41:42Guest:The monkeys started off from that.

00:41:44Guest:Drinky Crow.

00:41:45Guest:Why do you think Drinky Crow drinks so much?

00:41:47Guest:Because he's brokenhearted.

00:41:48Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:41:48Guest:And he's a bird.

00:41:50Guest:Yeah.

00:41:51Guest:And when he shoots himself, it's like, okay, I'm going to fucking shoot myself.

00:41:54Guest:Fuck you.

00:41:54Guest:And he can do it over and over again.

00:41:55Guest:Yeah, the next day, he's like, give me some nutball or booze.

00:41:58Guest:Yeah.

00:41:58Guest:I drank all the booze.

00:41:59Guest:Oh, then let me cut your fucking head off and drink your blood, douchebag.

00:42:02Guest:So that's all.

00:42:03Marc:So the language of the crow is all... If a broken heart could talk and continually kill himself.

00:42:10Marc:Yeah.

00:42:11Marc:That's the human river.

00:42:12Guest:Right.

00:42:13Guest:That's great.

00:42:13Guest:It's great because you can kill yourself.

00:42:15Guest:The drama of the beauty and drama of killing yourself goes on and on.

00:42:19Guest:With a cartoon, sure.

00:42:20Guest:Yeah.

00:42:21Guest:And he's on a boat, too, a lot of times.

00:42:23Guest:Sure, he's out at sea where they can't fucking call him.

00:42:26Guest:Cell phone doesn't even work out there.

00:42:28Guest:They call you on the radio.

00:42:29Guest:It's like...

00:42:30Guest:get your ass home turn that fucking radio yeah i'm drinking give me a gun get your carcass home and what's the other guy's name uncle who uncle gabby uncle gabby he's the foil yeah what whenever i have to have somebody like burn his hands or you know just really cut his get his toes cut off he stubbed his toe on an anchor

00:42:55Guest:God damn it, cut the toes off, I can't bear it anymore.

00:42:58Guest:So the doctor cuts off the toes and he's like, ah, I can never stub my toe again.

00:43:03Guest:Ouch, it hurts even worse when you stub the stumps.

00:43:09Guest:You can't protect yourself.

00:43:11Marc:When you write this stuff, I mean, the first time you came upon the crow,

00:43:15Marc:Like, I have to assume not only like a comic that there's a moment there where you're like, this is my guy.

00:43:20Marc:This is my voice.

00:43:21Marc:This is my muse.

00:43:22Marc:What was that moment?

00:43:24Guest:That was from my second heartbreak.

00:43:26Marc:Where, yeah, I was living with this girl.

00:43:28Marc:Your heart broke open and a crow came out.

00:43:30Marc:It did.

00:43:32Guest:It did.

00:43:33Guest:I was living with this girl in Berlin.

00:43:35Guest:I mean, in Brooklyn.

00:43:38Guest:So you moved from Berlin to Brooklyn.

00:43:39Guest:Berlin straight to Brooklyn, yeah.

00:43:42Guest:Before Brooklyn was cool.

00:43:44Guest:Everything was getting all right.

00:43:45Guest:It was all right.

00:43:46Guest:I had some girlfriends and I was forgetting and everything was okay.

00:43:50Guest:But I kept thinking to myself, I've got to get back to that love that I thought was going to last forever when I was 22.

00:43:55Guest:Yeah.

00:43:56Guest:But you know, I finally got it now.

00:43:59Guest:Yeah.

00:43:59Guest:I just realized, sit down and calm the fuck down, and everything's going to be all right, for me anyway.

00:44:04Guest:Yeah.

00:44:06Guest:But at this point, it was like, OK, I'm living with this girl, and she said, the winter's coming, and you're not going to have enough money to pay the rent.

00:44:14Guest:And I'm like, well, what do you want me to do, get a job?

00:44:16Guest:No.

00:44:17Guest:Want me to wash the dishes more often?

00:44:19Guest:No.

00:44:21Guest:You want me to move out?

00:44:23Guest:Well, no.

00:44:24Guest:And then I was like, fuck this.

00:44:26Guest:So I moved out, and then I went to this bar, and it was the worst blizzard of New York ever in 1992 or three.

00:44:34Guest:And then this guy at a bartender in the deep, deep snow in the dark said, I started drawing a little crow, blowing his brains out.

00:44:43Guest:He said, every time you draw that crow, I'll give you a beat-free beer.

00:44:46Guest:great okay yeah so I started drawing little comics of the crow drinky crow blowing his brains out making jokes he goes no it's gonna be a whole comic four panels and I'll put it on my newsletter and you get a free beer every time so I had free beer I had no money yeah I had free beers and I would steal spaghetti from friends and then drinky crow was born and then other people in the bar were all depressed because it was just because it was winter yeah and they all started drawing them too

00:45:13Guest:So there's a lot of Drinky Crows drawn by a lot of people.

00:45:16Guest:Then the whole bar walls were covered with it.

00:45:19Guest:Then they made a styrofoam Drinky Crow and painted it and put it outside the bar.

00:45:23Guest:This is a bar called 612 in Brooklyn on Metropolitan Avenue.

00:45:27Guest:Is it still there, Drinky Crow?

00:45:29Guest:I think the bar is still there.

00:45:30Guest:They're taken over by Italians and now it's like, what are you going to do?

00:45:36Guest:Get rid of the crows.

00:45:37Guest:Get the fucking crows.

00:45:39Marc:Get them out of here.

00:45:39Marc:Look at this place classy.

00:45:41Marc:So that was the birth of it.

00:45:42Marc:The birth of your life-defining moment.

00:45:45Marc:Scott Riley helped me.

00:45:46Marc:Scott Riley was the bartender and the owner.

00:45:48Marc:So the thing that made the diamond out of the coal of your broken heart was there in the winter of 1990-something, 92, 93.

00:45:58Marc:You're broke.

00:45:59Marc:You're doodling at a bar.

00:46:00Marc:And you're heartbroken.

00:46:03Marc:The coal of my broken heart is a drinky crow.

00:46:06Marc:Yeah.

00:46:07Marc:But tell me about the iconography of the era that you're obsessed with.

00:46:11Marc:I mean, I'm not a comic book guy in terms of history.

00:46:15Marc:Like, you know, R. Crumb made a big difference on my mind when I was younger.

00:46:19Marc:When I was a teenager, like I come across those.

00:46:23Marc:I got that first Zap one right up there.

00:46:24Guest:Oh, that's a really good one.

00:46:27Marc:Yeah, that blew my mind.

00:46:29Marc:And, you know, as I got into him and even with your stuff and Spiegelman.

00:46:33Guest:I was reading that at the same time you were.

00:46:35Guest:Right?

00:46:35Guest:Loved it.

00:46:36Guest:Yeah, there was just something.

00:46:37Guest:It completely changed my world.

00:46:38Marc:Yeah, it's weird because, you know, when you hear him talk, there's something about the existential, and I think you do this with Mackie's too, is that the poetics of human existential struggles can easily be, you know, can fill up characters if you do it right and you can do it over and over again, like you're saying.

00:46:57Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:46:57Marc:And it serves as sort of an interesting, almost absurd release if you can lock into the comics as a person taking them in.

00:47:06Marc:And you seem to go a little further back and honor a style that doesn't exist much unless Spiegelman decides to resurrect it for five minutes.

00:47:15Marc:You've integrated it sort of fully into all your work.

00:47:18Marc:Who are those people?

00:47:19Guest:that you you sort of bring back to life i started out loving charles schultz peanuts like everybody did when i was a little kid there were the kids in the school would say draw snoopy for me yeah on my book right because i loved it because you know you want to talk about a comic strip that's made the call of a broken heart that's peanuts that is just beautiful stuff

00:47:41Guest:And it's all really about Charlie Brown hating himself and dealing with that.

00:47:45Guest:Right.

00:47:46Guest:And then Linus is like, fuck, my sister's always beating me up.

00:47:49Guest:Yeah.

00:47:50Guest:But it's cool.

00:47:50Guest:I'm all right.

00:47:51Guest:I'm all right anyway.

00:47:52Guest:I got my blanket.

00:47:53Guest:I got my blanket.

00:47:53Guest:And then not only have my blanket, I can calmly talk to her and maybe she won't beat me up.

00:47:59Guest:Right.

00:47:59Guest:And then you go from that, and I loved it.

00:48:01Guest:And I started a comic strip called Zero Man.

00:48:03Guest:Yeah.

00:48:03Guest:My parents were like, I was like in second grade.

00:48:07Guest:My parents were like, you got to go to a psychiatrist because this is freaky shit.

00:48:11Marc:because zero man would like fly around and then crash into telephone poles and go i'm the great wonderful terrific crash zero man you know like right like like uh underdog right he never he never died no he just crashed he's just a fool and a flop recurring theme with you it's like these things you can you can break them apart and then put them back together yeah it's like the wily coyote too it seems that maybe it's a theme and maybe it's one of the reasons comic book artists do comics i can destroy these guys every few panels

00:48:37Marc:and then it can rebuild them papa gets his head smashed in with a giant anchor and he pops right back i never really thought about that yeah that the the heroes of comic books are the ones that can you know reconstitute yeah and that's all the best cartoonists are suicidal yeah because they can do it over and over again it saves their life that's right if you if you're really suicidal yeah it just like lasts only one time and you're like oh now what am i gonna do yeah create an alter ego that can die over and over again

00:49:03Marc:Never really thought about it like that, but so but some of this stuff goes back to before Schultz doesn't it?

00:49:09Guest:I mean if you like they well then I went on and I read Schultz and Schultz I mean they were in Red Crumb and Robert Crumb I mean I love that shit when I was a teenager yeah like oh my god comics have gotten like suddenly they jumped the whole Generation yeah, and there's also instructions on how to think and fuck yeah our crumb comic right it's like you can see it like oh that's how it goes in and

00:49:28Marc:It's all right there.

00:49:29Guest:There's also that hapless fool Flaky Funt.

00:49:32Guest:Yeah, Flaky Funt.

00:49:33Guest:Who says, like, looks at the little, the jet planes are flying through the air.

00:49:37Guest:And he's all bummed out.

00:49:40Guest:And then he's, like, trying to rake up some hay with that rake.

00:49:42Guest:Yeah.

00:49:43Guest:Shit is gonna work.

00:49:45Guest:Mr. Natural walks up and just stares at him and he's, like, gets all embarrassed.

00:49:48Guest:Yeah.

00:49:49Guest:He bunks the rake out of his hand.

00:49:51Guest:He hands him a pitchfork.

00:49:53Guest:Yeah.

00:49:53Guest:Use the right tool for the job and walks away.

00:49:55Guest:I love that.

00:49:58Guest:Yeah.

00:49:58Guest:You fucking idiot.

00:49:59Guest:You're trying to live your life like this, you fucking dope.

00:50:02Guest:Just don't do this, and you'll be all right, and you can just be your regular jerk.

00:50:06Marc:Yeah.

00:50:07Marc:Yeah, but what about, like, that era of Crazy Cat and all that fucking stuff?

00:50:10Guest:Well, then, when I started, well, he took a lot of his stuff from the old Popeye cartoons.

00:50:15Guest:A lot of his stuff was influenced by old Popeye, old Dick Tracy, and Sister Older Cat, and Mutt and Jeff, and all that stuff.

00:50:23Guest:And then when I started doing comics myself, I like...

00:50:27Guest:I I read the the Smithsonian what's called the Smithsonian collection of newspaper comics mm-hmm which really like open my eyes about old comics mm-hmm because they would do that thing on the bottom is a little bottom strip I guess yes yeah that's an old trick from the 20s because it's like it's a little dessert you know right something for the adults or the older kids and then at the bottom a little thing for the kids that's how crazy cat was born

00:50:51Guest:But I really love that drawing style of the old and stuff.

00:50:54Guest:And I also just really love old and stuff because my grandparents' house on my mother's side, they were always doing paintings of ships and stuff.

00:51:02Guest:And on my dad's side, I lived in a Victorian house and my grandma gave me a sock monkey.

00:51:06Guest:And I just loved that as an escape from my fucking horrifying regular life with my parents.

00:51:13Guest:Yeah.

00:51:14Marc:Which is fucking weird.

00:51:15Marc:She gave you a sock monkey that she made?

00:51:17Marc:Yes.

00:51:18Uh-huh.

00:51:19Marc:She did.

00:51:20Marc:Why was your house weird?

00:51:22Guest:My parents' house?

00:51:22Guest:Yeah.

00:51:23Guest:That's a whole fucking other story.

00:51:24Guest:What?

00:51:25Guest:They were swingers.

00:51:26Guest:Yeah?

00:51:26Guest:We grew up under, people would say, what religion are you?

00:51:30Guest:Swinger.

00:51:30Guest:Oh, really?

00:51:31Guest:Yeah.

00:51:31Guest:Sunday morning meant, this is how Sunday morning began.

00:51:35Guest:It didn't begin with getting ready to go to church and everybody climbing the car and going and sitting to church.

00:51:40Guest:Sunday morning for us began with a big fat guy named Wally walking into the room, whatever room we were in, looking at us, and we would go, oh.

00:51:49Guest:And he'd say, clean up this room, and close the door.

00:51:52Guest:And then we'd hear, as they changed places.

00:51:57Guest:And then we'd come out of there.

00:51:58Guest:We'd wait a certain amount of time.

00:52:00Guest:We knew.

00:52:00Guest:Four kids in our family and four kids in their family.

00:52:03Guest:In Wally's family?

00:52:04Guest:In Wally's family.

00:52:05Guest:Wally's four boys, and my two brothers and a sister.

00:52:09Guest:And so then we'd get out and they'd be eating steak and eggs.

00:52:12Guest:Who, two couples?

00:52:13Guest:Two couples.

00:52:14Guest:Wally and his wife and your parents.

00:52:15Guest:Yeah.

00:52:15Guest:And then after breakfast, we'd have our Cheerios and all the fuck garbage they gave us.

00:52:21Guest:And then as they had the steak and eggs.

00:52:23Guest:When I have breakfast nowadays, and I have steak and eggs for breakfast, the kids get fucking steak and eggs.

00:52:27Guest:Sure.

00:52:28Guest:It comes from that.

00:52:29Guest:Right.

00:52:29Guest:That spite against swinger parents.

00:52:31Guest:Yes.

00:52:33Guest:Now they're getting heart disease because of my swinger parents.

00:52:35Guest:Uh-huh.

00:52:36Guest:And they'd get in the convertible, and Wally would be in the backseat with Mom, and Dad would be in the frontseat with Marion, and they'd drive off.

00:52:43Guest:Now, this lasted something like 10 years.

00:52:45Guest:Just with one couple?

00:52:46Guest:Yeah.

00:52:47Guest:They started off having crazy swinger parties in their house.

00:52:51Guest:My dad was a crazy artist, and he built this beautiful house with the back wall with all giant windows looking out into the woods.

00:52:59Guest:He did stuff like he put up a billboard.

00:53:01Guest:He was a lot of fun, actually.

00:53:02Marc:So this was the 50s.

00:53:03Marc:These were early on Bohemians?

00:53:04Marc:60s, 60s.

00:53:05Marc:I was born in 56.

00:53:06Marc:So these were like... So this is 68.

00:53:10Marc:But they were still ahead of the curve for their age, right?

00:53:13Marc:A little bit, yeah.

00:53:14Marc:So they were like beatniks originally?

00:53:16Marc:Yeah, they were beatniks and art.

00:53:18Marc:Well, they went to the same art school I did.

00:53:20Marc:Mass art.

00:53:22Marc:They'd already transcended the status quo, the post-war, bourgeois, middle-class thing.

00:53:29Marc:They were going the other way.

00:53:30Guest:It was pre-hippie.

00:53:30Marc:Pre-hippie, but the predecessors of the hippie.

00:53:33Guest:Yeah.

00:53:34Guest:People would show up with bongos.

00:53:36Guest:And my dad would do multimedia, like a slideshow.

00:53:39Guest:He had six slide projectors and a movie loop all over the walls and crazy music.

00:53:43Marc:Oh, shit.

00:53:43Marc:So you grew up with that?

00:53:44Marc:Oh, it was great.

00:53:45Marc:You grew up with the New England equivalent of Warhol's factory?

00:53:48Guest:Yeah, it was Warhol's factory out in the middle of the woods of Massachusetts.

00:53:52Guest:There was a little frog pond next to us with little, you know, woods and bunnies in the house.

00:53:59Marc:So you kids were just always sort of like, you know, finding pot and ashtrays and half-naked women half-asleep?

00:54:04Guest:I asked my parents about it.

00:54:05Guest:Yeah, definitely.

00:54:07Guest:One time we came upstairs and there was a naked woman lying on the couch.

00:54:10Guest:Yeah.

00:54:10Guest:And underwear was always like thrown around the living room.

00:54:13Guest:Yeah.

00:54:13Guest:So the parties were really going on.

00:54:15Guest:Right.

00:54:15Guest:But they waited till we were asleep.

00:54:17Marc:Right.

00:54:17Marc:So we wouldn't know.

00:54:18Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:54:19Marc:Yeah.

00:54:20Marc:For 10 years.

00:54:20Marc:As you furiously masturbated to the sounds of a party.

00:54:25Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:54:26Guest:There was no masturbation.

00:54:27Guest:We were young.

00:54:28Guest:We were 10.

00:54:28Marc:Oh, shit.

00:54:29Guest:So we were like, you know, we were just like,

00:54:34Guest:thinking, you know, okay, when these assholes are finished with the party, we'll go up and get the crackers.

00:54:41Guest:We'll get the bugles and the bacon thins and all that shit.

00:54:44Guest:And then one day my dad put up a big billboard in the backyard.

00:54:49Guest:He built it out of just, you know, some foam core, not foam core, they didn't have foam core there, but he built a billboard and he was also a Revolutionary War reenactor way pre-Tea Party because he was a lefty.

00:55:03Guest:And he would fill, I always thought I played the fife, and he'd fill up the musket with paint going out and he shot it.

00:55:10Guest:But it was right in the back so everybody in the party could see all these, through the big windows, the whole, wow!

00:55:15Guest:And then he'd give everybody a cup of paint and they'd go out there and throw paint on the walls.

00:55:21Guest:But was he wearing a Revolutionary War outfit?

00:55:23Guest:Yeah.

00:55:24Guest:That was your dad?

00:55:25Marc:Yeah, he'd put on his tricorn cap.

00:55:27Marc:And go shoot paint muskets.

00:55:29Guest:He shot paint muskets.

00:55:30Marc:Had a big blank canvas.

00:55:30Marc:Blank canvas.

00:55:31Marc:And everybody in the house would be like, ooh!

00:55:33Marc:See, that was the cool part.

00:55:34Guest:Now, on the other hand, the sad part was that usually every weekend, it was just fucking bullshit.

00:55:40Marc:Yeah.

00:55:41Guest:It was just them drinking martinis, going down to bed, and we'd go to bed.

00:55:47Guest:There was always like a downstairs with a TV, and they'd start doing whatever the fuck they were doing up there.

00:55:52Guest:But it was just a total fucking lie.

00:55:55Guest:My father actually built...

00:55:56Guest:a house during this period that we moved into and it was like you go upstairs and there was the living room and there was the hallway and the lit dining room and the kitchen and then there was like a wall the house just I just was up for sale actually I don't know if the people who bought it knew what was going on but it's pretty obvious there's a wall with three doors in it yeah

00:56:16Guest:And the middle door was a bathroom, and the two doors on the sides are little hallways that go into the bedrooms in the back, the big bedrooms.

00:56:22Guest:The master bedroom and the studio that had a big bedroom.

00:56:24Marc:So that was for cleaning up and switching rooms?

00:56:26Guest:That was for now.

00:56:27Guest:They didn't have to get up in the morning early and go close one of our doors or make sure the kids weren't seeing what was going on.

00:56:34Guest:They could switch around in the bathroom.

00:56:36Guest:Well, were they just fucking all the time?

00:56:38Guest:I guess.

00:56:40Guest:Huh.

00:56:40Guest:So grandma's... Who's the fuck?

00:56:42Guest:My mom, I don't know, man, because she wouldn't, you know...

00:56:45Guest:She wouldn't look that good in those days.

00:56:47Guest:She was 40.

00:56:50Guest:But she was willing, apparently.

00:56:54Guest:Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to say that a 40-year-old girl, you don't want to fuck a 40-year-old woman, but we used to call her Jell-O.

00:57:01Guest:Jesus Christ, I hope she never figures out how to use her podcast.

00:57:04Marc:Is she still around?

00:57:05Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:07Guest:Very active with Ancestry.com.

00:57:09Guest:Oh, really?

00:57:10Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:10Guest:She's totally a square now.

00:57:12Guest:Huh.

00:57:12Guest:Completely.

00:57:13Guest:That happens a lot to people.

00:57:15Guest:They go to that generation.

00:57:16Marc:No, they square up.

00:57:18Guest:Yeah.

00:57:18Guest:You know?

00:57:19Guest:She squared up as soon as the divorce came.

00:57:22Marc:Yeah?

00:57:23Marc:Well, maybe she was not that into it to begin with.

00:57:27Marc:I don't know.

00:57:28Marc:I don't know.

00:57:29Marc:I think she kind of went along with it because it was fun.

00:57:31Marc:So Grandma's house represented some sort of boundaries and semblance and you're grounded.

00:57:36Marc:Yeah.

00:57:37Guest:You go to Grandma's house and everything's like, wow.

00:57:39Guest:Yeah.

00:57:40Guest:There's a person there who tells you don't do that.

00:57:43Guest:Yeah.

00:57:43Marc:And she's right there.

00:57:44Marc:It's Grammy.

00:57:45Yeah.

00:57:45Marc:Isn't that weird growing up with no boundaries or discipline, how, like, fucked up it makes you?

00:57:49Marc:Do you ever crave that somebody had just said, shut up, do this?

00:57:53Guest:They said shut up and do this, but it was so fucking just arbitrary that it was bullshit.

00:57:58Guest:Don't make that noise because it's bothering me.

00:58:02Guest:Don't eat that, it's...

00:58:03Guest:mine yeah you know yeah so the sock monkey thing because that was a strip you did right it was a it's a it's a whole it's a book and a whole book series yeah suck like you we're trying to make a movie out of it now we get this really beautiful uh three minute test of it which is gorgeous it's done with like with puppets but the puppeteers are all taken out with cg and then the arms and legs are added in cg so it really looks like a real sock monkey running around in our room

00:58:28Guest:Yeah.

00:58:30Guest:And as soon as I get that movie sold, that's when I'll be able to buy my own swinger house.

00:58:36Guest:That's when everything changes.

00:58:37Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:58:37Guest:That's when the wall goes up with the three doors in it.

00:58:40Marc:But who's, like, the Mackies have gotten you an amazing amount of specific fame and recognition.

00:58:49Guest:No, the song, fame and fortune, fame.

00:58:53Guest:Mine song goes like this.

00:58:54Guest:Fame and fame and fame and fame and fame.

00:58:58Marc:So how much do you make a living off these books?

00:59:02Marc:We're cartoonists.

00:59:02Marc:I don't make that much.

00:59:04Guest:Not enough to buy a fucking house.

00:59:06Guest:You've drawn pictures of some of my favorite people.

00:59:08Guest:I'm also bad with money.

00:59:09Guest:For the believer.

00:59:11Guest:Yeah, but you can imagine what piecework costs for an illustrator.

00:59:15Guest:What do you mean piecework?

00:59:17Guest:Per piece?

00:59:18Guest:Okay, they send me 10 pictures, right?

00:59:20Guest:Can a magazine afford to pay me thousands of dollars for those?

00:59:25Guest:No.

00:59:26Guest:It's a magazine.

00:59:27Guest:So how many do you have syndicated strips?

00:59:31Guest:I do.

00:59:31Guest:It's self-syndicated, but it's in like 15 papers.

00:59:35Guest:It used to be in a lot more, but those papers were all going on in business.

00:59:38Guest:And you had the adults one?

00:59:39Guest:No, I'm not complaining.

00:59:39Guest:I make a pretty decent wage.

00:59:41Guest:And when I tell friends of mine how much money I make, they're pretty surprised because cartoonists don't usually make a lot of money.

00:59:47Guest:But I live in Pasadena, and I got to buy a house.

00:59:50Guest:My kids are teenagers, and I'm renting a really nice house right now.

00:59:53Guest:But in order to buy that rented house right now, I don't have, I'm the kind of guy, I live in squatted houses.

00:59:58Guest:So I didn't start off with like buying a little house and then buying a bigger house and then buying a bigger house.

01:00:02Guest:No, I had no idea how to buy a house.

01:00:03Marc:Yeah, and this was the only house I've owned ever.

01:00:06Guest:So eventually I'm going to get the lump that brings me into the house.

01:00:09Guest:I'm at this point where I can't save to get it.

01:00:13Guest:I have to strike gold.

01:00:14Guest:Right.

01:00:15Guest:I can't do it through evolution.

01:00:16Guest:I have to do it through evolution.

01:00:17Guest:So Gold looks like a sock monkey movie.

01:00:20Guest:Looks like a sock monkey movie where Billy has in the show.

01:00:22Guest:The Drinky Crow show, if that had gone in two more seasons, that would have been Gold.

01:00:25Guest:Drinky Crow on Adult Swim?

01:00:27Guest:Yeah, that was good.

01:00:28Guest:It was good.

01:00:29Guest:I took a lot more money out of there than...

01:00:32Guest:then um and now you got the new other people wanted me to the book of portraits here that's uh that's out that is yeah mine didn't make the cut but you gave me another portrait to make up for it it's not that it didn't make the cut what happened was that i got together every portrait i could possibly find and i was scraping at the bottom of the barrel if i had found yours i would have definitely put it in you'd already given it to me

01:00:55Marc:probably yeah but i have files of all of them i most of them are all given away or gone yeah now i have two though thank you that period of the the original portrait if you had you put it in that was a very rarefied period where i wore round glasses and had my hair that short i hated the day that picture was taken because i just got a haircut and there's no way i'll ever look like that again but the new one that looks like me you don't look pretty in the first one

01:01:18Marc:Yeah, it's weird, but they both look like different versions of Jewish intellectuals from other eras.

01:01:25Marc:Yeah.

01:01:26Marc:Yeah, the original picture with the round glasses.

01:01:29Marc:Yeah, you look like Shlomo, ready to do some math.

01:01:31Marc:Yeah, it's me in the 20s when I was working on that project with Enrico Fermi.

01:01:35Marc:That math project.

01:01:35Marc:Yeah, and the top one, that looks like me, 1968, at the cutting edge of nothing.

01:01:42Marc:Yeah.

01:01:43Marc:I try to be fashionable and they just keep following me.

01:01:48Marc:The best thing to do is just have three or four shirts and two or three pairs of pants and two pairs of shoes that you keep in rotation.

01:01:56Marc:And, you know, fuck it.

01:01:57Guest:I put on some fancy vests when I go out.

01:02:00Marc:That's good.

01:02:01Marc:You have teenage kids too?

01:02:02Guest:No, I started very late in raising children.

01:02:07Guest:So my kids are 10 and 8.

01:02:10Guest:which is all fucking a lot of fun because they're uh so you had your first skateboard and play the violin and shit like that how old were you when you had your first kid uh 59 no no you're not 59 10 years ago i was 45 yeah and you recommend it oh sure what the fuck why not

01:02:34Guest:I mean, people look at all these fucking Hollywood guys.

01:02:38Guest:They're having kids in their 70s.

01:02:40Guest:The only thing that I won't have that somebody who had kids when he was 30 is, there's two things.

01:02:46Guest:One, I had a fucking great time, even though it was weird and crazy and heartbroken and depressing.

01:02:52Guest:It was a great time, and I have it all documented.

01:02:54Guest:Yeah.

01:02:54Guest:But I also now, what I won't have is being like 70 years old and having little grandkids crawling on my knees.

01:03:03Marc:So you won't have the second wave of kids.

01:03:05Marc:Like the one after you fucked up your original kids, you can finally love something appropriately.

01:03:10Marc:Grandkids.

01:03:11Marc:Yeah.

01:03:11Marc:But I can be a granduncle.

01:03:13Marc:Sure.

01:03:13Guest:I get plenty of nephews.

01:03:15Guest:What the fuck?

01:03:15Marc:And you're married to Becky?

01:03:17Guest:Married to the lovely and wonderful Becky Thayer.

01:03:20Guest:You're married into a very funny group.

01:03:22Guest:Yeah.

01:03:24Guest:I'm telling you, when I heard...

01:03:26Guest:Because I met Andy and Sarah.

01:03:28Guest:Andy Richter is your brother-in-law.

01:03:30Guest:And Sarah Thier is his wife.

01:03:32Guest:Yeah.

01:03:32Guest:And they used to throw parties in New York, and a lot of cartoonists would come because they liked cartoonists.

01:03:37Guest:Yeah.

01:03:37Guest:And, like, say, Henderson and, you know, all those crazy Cavs and all those guys.

01:03:42Guest:And they would...

01:03:44Guest:And then Sarah Thire was there, just fucking insane.

01:03:47Guest:Yeah.

01:03:47Guest:Especially in those days, she was running around, pinching everybody's ass, you know, getting everybody to line up and do cha-cha, watch-up parties, dancing shit.

01:03:56Marc:Yeah.

01:03:56Guest:I was like, this chick's amazing.

01:03:59Guest:And then suddenly her sister started showing up.

01:04:02Guest:Debbie and Rachel were hanging around, and they were all like...

01:04:06Guest:all dressed all cool i was like wow there's a bunch of them yeah and then i heard of that with their mother it's like she lives in uh louisiana in a swamp she's crazy catholic yeah who like but she's nutty she's like one of these really crazy people yeah who happen to be insanely catholic yeah they had to all take a piss in a in a bucket on a road trip in a van like sarah piss in the bucket why can't debbie

01:04:31Guest:And then I found out there's another one.

01:04:35Guest:And it just got divorced.

01:04:37Guest:I was like, really?

01:04:38Guest:What's its name?

01:04:40Guest:It's Becky.

01:04:41Guest:Wow, she sent me an email.

01:04:43Guest:She's like, hey, I'm Becky.

01:04:44Guest:I'm the other thigh ass sister, the one you never met.

01:04:46Guest:And I was like, ooh.

01:04:48Guest:And I was 41, and I had had about my fifth heartache.

01:04:53Guest:And I was like, you know, I'd really like to settle down.

01:04:55Guest:I'm kind of tired of putting on big stupid hats and doing performance art and drawing comics all the time.

01:05:02Guest:And so I was like going up with these girls, but they're all, every girl I would meet in a bar would be 26.

01:05:06Guest:Yeah.

01:05:07Guest:And I said, how old are you?

01:05:09Guest:First email.

01:05:10Guest:And she said, 31.

01:05:12Guest:I said, oh, 30, that's 10 years younger.

01:05:14Guest:That's good.

01:05:16Guest:Then I thought to myself, click, I'm going to marry her.

01:05:19Marc:That's good, man.

01:05:20Guest:Yeah.

01:05:20Guest:I was lucky.

01:05:21Guest:Do you ever do sittings or you do it all from photographs?

01:05:24Guest:I do some sittings for my portraits.

01:05:27Guest:It's always better to do it from a sitting.

01:05:29Guest:It is.

01:05:30Guest:Yeah.

01:05:30Guest:Yeah, because you don't have, if you're going through a photograph, it's like you're going from one world through another world.

01:05:38Guest:I actually got sued for $5 million once for using a photograph.

01:05:46Marc:Get the fuck out of here.

01:05:47Marc:By who?

01:05:47Guest:Of a famous guy.

01:05:48Guest:Oh, you can't bring it out there.

01:05:49Marc:I can't say.

01:05:50Guest:No.

01:05:50Guest:I'm not allowed to say who it was.

01:05:51Marc:You drew a picture from a photograph.

01:05:52Guest:Because the guy who sued him is so fucking embarrassed that he would do something so douchebaggery.

01:05:58Guest:Yeah.

01:05:58Guest:That's the sewer guy for $5 million.

01:05:59Guest:For drawing from a picture?

01:06:01Guest:Nobody knows about it.

01:06:02Guest:Yeah.

01:06:04Guest:You know what?

01:06:05Guest:I can't really... Who's embarrassed?

01:06:06Guest:He is?

01:06:06Guest:He's embarrassed that if anybody knows that he sued this person... You?

01:06:11Guest:He sued me and the famous guy.

01:06:14Guest:The photographer?

01:06:15Guest:The photographer sued me and the famous guy.

01:06:19Guest:And if you guess who it is, I'll stop talking.

01:06:22Guest:And...

01:06:24Guest:So he was embarrassed about it.

01:06:26Guest:So he was so embarrassed about it that he had to, like, fucking put a, like, gag order on it.

01:06:31Guest:Because it's stupid.

01:06:33Guest:I mean, okay, I did use this photograph.

01:06:35Guest:The famous guy gave me the photograph and said, draw me for this.

01:06:39Guest:And the famous guy used it for promotion.

01:06:41Guest:The drawing.

01:06:42Guest:The drawing.

01:06:42Guest:And then the photographer saw it, obviously, because it was everywhere.

01:06:46Guest:And he said, you used my photograph.

01:06:49Guest:It's very obvious that I did.

01:06:51Guest:And I did.

01:06:51Guest:Yeah.

01:06:52Guest:And I can't really blame the guy.

01:06:53Guest:Yeah.

01:06:53Guest:Because if I saw somebody do that to me, I'd be like, what the fuck?

01:06:57Guest:Hey, that's the name of your show.

01:06:58Guest:Yeah.

01:06:59Guest:You know, pay me.

01:07:01Guest:And usually somebody would say, all right, yeah, you know, you're right.

01:07:06Guest:But he fucking sued him.

01:07:07Guest:It's bullshit.

01:07:08Guest:I lawsuit.

01:07:09Guest:I'm going to sue you.

01:07:10Guest:So did he get paid?

01:07:11Guest:Yeah, he got paid.

01:07:13Guest:Wow.

01:07:14Guest:He paid a lot of money.

01:07:15Guest:He didn't get no $5 million, but he got paid way more than his fucking stupid photograph was worth.

01:07:21Marc:So some of the paintings, the drawings, you've done some covers, too.

01:07:24Marc:Everyone likes you, man.

01:07:26Marc:You're, like, cool.

01:07:27Marc:They do.

01:07:28Marc:I am cool.

01:07:28Marc:Yeah.

01:07:28Guest:They all like me.

01:07:30Guest:Your kids like you?

01:07:30Guest:Until they meet me.

01:07:31Guest:Yeah.

01:07:32Guest:No, you're a likable guy.

01:07:33Guest:That's true.

01:07:34Guest:I am a very likable person.

01:07:35Guest:Your kids like you?

01:07:36Guest:They do.

01:07:37Guest:I have a very good time.

01:07:38Guest:All right.

01:07:39Guest:But they're only 10 and 8.

01:07:41Marc:Yeah, there's time.

01:07:41Guest:You'll fuck it up.

01:07:43Marc:My parents did.

01:07:46Marc:You know, they go through that period.

01:07:48Marc:That's the hardest thing to weather, I think, is when your kids are like, fuck you.

01:07:52Marc:Yeah.

01:07:52Marc:And you've got to wait for it to come around.

01:07:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:54Guest:It's going to happen.

01:07:55Guest:Of course it's going to happen.

01:07:56Guest:It happens now.

01:07:57Guest:Fortunately, it only lasts a day.

01:07:59Guest:Well, that's good.

01:08:00Guest:They're kids.

01:08:00Guest:And I know that when kids are kids, they're growing up.

01:08:03Guest:they're practicing every single emotion they're ever going to use on anybody on me and their mother.

01:08:09Guest:Right.

01:08:09Guest:So they're practicing anger.

01:08:11Guest:They're practicing like... So you just got to accept the practice board that you're... It's the practice board.

01:08:16Guest:You're the practice board.

01:08:18Guest:This is one of the advantages of having kids when you're older.

01:08:20Guest:Right.

01:08:21Guest:You're not like 25 and going, what do you mean?

01:08:23Guest:Shut up.

01:08:24Guest:Yeah.

01:08:24Guest:And slap the kid.

01:08:25Marc:That's a good... I never heard it that way.

01:08:27Marc:I think that's called boundaries in the common sort of... It's called boundaries?

01:08:32Marc:Self-aware parlance.

01:08:33Marc:Sure.

01:08:33Marc:How does that work?

01:08:36Marc:I have no idea, but I think that by saying she may be angry, but I want to take this personally, she's growing and learning.

01:08:44Marc:I can be a grown-up here and not go, you shut up.

01:08:47Marc:Yeah, exactly.

01:08:48Guest:I'm not her older brother.

01:08:50Guest:That's a boundary.

01:08:51Guest:That's a boundary.

01:08:52Guest:But if she goes too far, she needs me to say, be quiet, stop that, go in your room, be punished.

01:09:00Marc:You didn't get that.

01:09:01Marc:You didn't get that with any consistency.

01:09:03Guest:I got a slap in the face.

01:09:05Marc:But erratically, and then they disappear into a room with another couple.

01:09:08Guest:Because they're in their 20s, and then they go fuck somebody else.

01:09:10Guest:Yeah, right.

01:09:13Guest:Yeah.

01:09:13Guest:You're not doing that.

01:09:14Guest:Now, were your parents swingers?

01:09:15Guest:No.

01:09:16Marc:So you know what I'm talking about.

01:09:17Marc:No, my parents had no boundaries.

01:09:18Marc:They were completely insecure and vain of maybe a little younger than your parents.

01:09:22Marc:But they had me when they were very young.

01:09:24Marc:And there's a lot of pictures of my old man wearing medallions and Nehru jackets and whatnot.

01:09:29Marc:I bet they did swing a little.

01:09:32Marc:But it was not a way of life.

01:09:36Guest:And they didn't let you know about it.

01:09:37Marc:No, but... We knew.

01:09:39Guest:We knew.

01:09:39Guest:And that was a drag.

01:09:40Guest:Because we were living a lie.

01:09:41Guest:Total lie.

01:09:43Guest:I mean, they would say things to us that we knew were not true in order to, you know, to get through daily life.

01:09:50Marc:Like, well, those are just, those are mommy and daddy's friends that we see every week and eat breakfast with.

01:09:55Marc:That kind of show.

01:09:55Guest:Yeah, not mommy and daddy's friends.

01:09:58Guest:That was like, that's baby talk, but I can't think of an example, but it was like very obvious, you know.

01:10:06Guest:Well, good, man.

01:10:07Guest:I'm glad you're doing it a different way.

01:10:11Guest:But it's funny.

01:10:11Guest:It makes you, like, now I'm, like, I want to make my own kind of anchor.

01:10:17Guest:Yeah.

01:10:18Guest:So I have to, like, when the kids say, Dad, it sucks, Dad.

01:10:22Guest:Don't say sucks in front of an adult.

01:10:25Guest:Definitely don't say it in front of me because that means suck a penis.

01:10:28Guest:I said that to my kids.

01:10:30Guest:And now they'll do this, like,

01:10:31Guest:That sucks.

01:10:32Guest:That doesn't mean the same thing.

01:10:35Guest:Really?

01:10:36Marc:Yeah.

01:10:36Marc:So they, okay.

01:10:38Marc:Well, they're right.

01:10:39Marc:I mean, I don't know that they would have put that together.

01:10:41Guest:What does it mean?

01:10:42Guest:What is being sucked in that sucks or you suck?

01:10:45Marc:Yeah, but eventually, you know, through common usage, it just has, it means its own thing.

01:10:49Marc:It just means it's shitty.

01:10:51Marc:It sucks.

01:10:51Marc:It means cocksucker.

01:10:52Marc:No, it doesn't to them.

01:10:54Marc:It does.

01:10:54Marc:Not to them.

01:10:55Marc:Well, see, this is the historical you.

01:10:57Marc:You're going back to the root.

01:10:58Marc:I'm using what the word actually is.

01:11:00Marc:Yeah, you're going back to the Model T. No, it's not a Model T. You're saying that it used to be that sucks a dick.

01:11:06Marc:Yeah, that sucks.

01:11:07Marc:You suck a dick.

01:11:09Marc:yeah right yeah no i get that but sucks you know is is it just means it could but it might be suck eggs why don't you do some studying it might it sucks eggs it sucks eggs okay right just say that it means suck a jelly bean it just sucks it's bad maybe it's just a general vacuum maybe it sucks it's really general a dried shit yeah it's just a general vacuum that like whatever it's doing it's taking from me it's a vacuum things that i that's good

01:11:35Marc:Yeah.

01:11:36Marc:But now you've already filled your kids' heads with dick sucking.

01:11:41Marc:You've given something they didn't need at all.

01:11:43Guest:They didn't have to learn for another five or six years.

01:11:45Guest:From some boy in the parking lot who said, have you ever sucked a dick?

01:11:49Guest:They'd be like, what?

01:11:51Guest:That sounds interesting.

01:11:52Guest:No, I know what that is.

01:11:53Guest:My dad told me.

01:11:54Guest:It's a bad thing.

01:11:55Guest:Yeah.

01:11:55Guest:Oh, you've ruined it for future boyfriends.

01:11:59Guest:You're goddamn right.

01:12:03Guest:You're goddamn right.

01:12:04Guest:I'm setting fucking mind traps all down their lives for these future boyfriends.

01:12:08Guest:Oh, good for you.

01:12:09Guest:Yeah.

01:12:11Guest:I think we've covered it.

01:12:11Guest:You feel good about it?

01:12:12Guest:I do.

01:12:13Marc:Thanks, Tony.

01:12:13Marc:Thank you, Mark.

01:12:20Marc:Tony Millionaire.

01:12:21Marc:Great guy.

01:12:22Marc:Interesting guy.

01:12:23Marc:Father.

01:12:26Marc:At 50-whatever-he-is.

01:12:28Marc:Wow.

01:12:29Marc:All right.

01:12:29Marc:Yeah, I mean, the artist's life.

01:12:32Marc:He does some great work, though.

01:12:33Marc:I'm looking at my two Tony millionaire portraits.

01:12:36Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:12:40Marc:Get a T-shirt.

01:12:40Marc:Get on the mailing list.

01:12:41Marc:Pick up some merch.

01:12:43Marc:Get the app.

01:12:43Marc:Kick in a few shekels.

01:12:45Marc:Do what you want to do.

01:12:46Marc:Drop a comment.

01:12:47Marc:Try to be nice, but I know some of you are incapable of it.

01:12:50Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.

01:12:52Marc:Do the thing.

01:12:53Marc:Come see me, Pete Holmes, Chelsea Peretti, Joe Mandy at the Ice House this Sunday, July 8th at 7 p.m.

01:13:00Marc:Go to icehousecomedy.com for that.

01:13:02Marc:I'll be at the Montreal Just for Laughs Festival doing stuff.

01:13:05Marc:Go check that out.

01:13:07Marc:Boomer, come here.

01:13:08Marc:Let me clean your ass.

01:13:11Marc:Come on.

01:13:11Marc:It's sad.

01:13:15Marc:Okay, Dennis, you can start sawing again.

01:13:22Marc:I don't know if he heard me.