Episode 285 - Rick Shapiro

Episode 285 • Released June 3, 2012 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Marc:Really?

00:00:08Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:09Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:12Marc:Pow!

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck?

00:00:14Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Marc:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Marc:It's time for WTF!

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Mark Maron.

00:00:24Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you?

00:00:25Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What the fucks the bulls?

00:00:28Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:29Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:31Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:32Marc:The classic.

00:00:34Marc:Mark Maron here.

00:00:35Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:36Marc:Thank you for joining me.

00:00:38Marc:I hope you're doing well.

00:00:39Marc:I'm okay.

00:00:41Marc:Who's on the show today?

00:00:42Marc:The amazing Rick Shapiro.

00:00:44Marc:The force of nature that is Rick Shapiro.

00:00:48Marc:An old friend and an old enemy at times.

00:00:51Marc:It's hard to know.

00:00:52Marc:But when we talked, we were definitely friends.

00:00:55Marc:I went to the Beach Boys last night or the night before last.

00:01:00Marc:My girlfriend, Jessica, the lovely Jessica, it was her birthday yesterday.

00:01:05Marc:And on Saturday night, I got her Beach Boys tickets because she loves the fucking Beach Boys.

00:01:10Marc:This is a 29-year-old woman, loves the Beach Boys.

00:01:13Marc:I can't.

00:01:14Marc:I don't love the Beach Boys.

00:01:16Marc:I know the Beach Boys.

00:01:18Marc:The Beach Boys are part of our collective soul somehow or another for a few songs.

00:01:23Marc:Understandably so.

00:01:26Marc:But it was all she wanted to do.

00:01:28Marc:So I spent some money, as one does, on their ladies.

00:01:33Marc:Didn't know what to expect.

00:01:35Marc:I've tried with the Beach Boys.

00:01:36Marc:I mean, people have told me that Brian Wilson is a genius.

00:01:40Marc:Pet Sounds, Smile.

00:01:41Marc:There are a few other records that people love.

00:01:45Marc:I've tried to wrap my brain around the genius.

00:01:48Marc:It's hard for me to get past the cheesiness of the Beach Boys.

00:01:53Marc:And I don't know that I ever have.

00:01:55Marc:But when I do open my heart to Brian Wilson music, I find that the sadness is overwhelming.

00:02:00Marc:There's just a sensitivity I have to the depth of despair and depression and loneliness from being brought up with it and having part of it myself that no matter how happy the Beach Boys songs are.

00:02:12Marc:I feel that coming from Brian's heart and certainly in Pet Sounds and certainly in Smile.

00:02:17Marc:I can listen to two and they're beautiful.

00:02:19Marc:They're almost angelic, but I just hear underneath all the layers, the angel howling with despair, but in beautiful harmonies.

00:02:32Marc:The beautiful harmonies and layers of sound to me are not masking the profound sadness that comes through this music for me.

00:02:43Marc:But I didn't know what to expect.

00:02:45Marc:They're old.

00:02:46Marc:Mike Love is kind of a douchebag.

00:02:48Marc:And I just didn't know.

00:02:50Marc:But they are the Beach Boys.

00:02:52Marc:And I was there right there in good seats.

00:02:55Marc:And...

00:02:55Marc:And got to be honest with you, a few points during the show, I sort of moved to tears.

00:03:00Marc:And I sang along with songs.

00:03:02Marc:By the end of the night, two and a half hours, I'm singing along with Help Me Rhonda and California Girls.

00:03:09Marc:I admit to this.

00:03:10Marc:And I was excited.

00:03:12Marc:I was excited to see Brian Wilson because he's an old he looks like an old board Buddha, just kind of passively engaging, occasionally moving his arms.

00:03:22Marc:But what I understand, he doesn't do that much anyways.

00:03:24Marc:Generally, that's about as much as you can get.

00:03:27Marc:They were showing old pictures of the band.

00:03:30Marc:And it's in me.

00:03:32Marc:The old stuff, the cheesy stuff.

00:03:34Marc:I remember having the Beach Boys Party album and just being completely captivated by their version.

00:03:38Marc:I think they did a cover of Alley Oop.

00:03:40Marc:I grew up with those songs because of my dad.

00:03:45Marc:Right when the show started, a couple sat down behind us in our box because those seats were empty.

00:03:51Marc:And I turn around.

00:03:51Marc:It's Paul Stanley from Kiss and a woman.

00:03:54Marc:And I'm like, there's Paul Stanley.

00:03:56Marc:And no part of me really wanted to talk to Paul Stanley.

00:04:00Marc:I was never a Kiss fan.

00:04:02Marc:I didn't know what I would say to him.

00:04:03Marc:And I sat there.

00:04:03Marc:There was a couple moments where there was part of me that I wanted to respect his personal boundaries.

00:04:09Marc:But I'm sure he loves people saying, hey, Paul.

00:04:12Marc:Hey, what's up?

00:04:13Marc:Wasn't wearing the makeup.

00:04:16Marc:Obviously, he was out.

00:04:19Marc:There was a couple moments where I wanted to say, there's a lot of guitars up there.

00:04:22Marc:I wanted to bond with them over guitars, and I didn't even do that.

00:04:26Marc:And I don't feel bad about it at all.

00:04:27Marc:It's an interesting place to be where you spend an evening, two and a half hours, sitting in a box with Paul Stanley, and you don't want to talk to Paul Stanley.

00:04:37Marc:I don't know if I've arrived somewhere or I missed a great opportunity.

00:04:42Marc:I'm not sure.

00:04:43Marc:But I don't have the respect in my guts.

00:04:46Marc:And I was wondering what he was thinking.

00:04:48Marc:Was he thinking, man, maybe we should put the makeup on again?

00:04:50Marc:When was the last time we did that?

00:04:52Marc:The Beach Boys were up.

00:04:53Marc:This is their 50th anniversary.

00:04:56Marc:I think that was the end of it, though, for them.

00:04:58Marc:I mean, I don't think I would see them again.

00:05:00Marc:I don't know if that's ever going to happen again.

00:05:03Marc:So let me explain to you a little bit about Rick Shapiro, if I could.

00:05:06Marc:Rick and I go back probably 20, 25 years.

00:05:10Marc:Rick was he was he's a comedian, but he is just possessed with a certain genius.

00:05:17Marc:You may have seen him on Louis C.K.

00:05:19Marc:'s HBO show.

00:05:21Marc:He's been in some of Louis' movies, the early films, and all of them probably.

00:05:26Marc:But as a performer, he was explosive, erratic, inspired.

00:05:31Marc:And as a person, he's explosive, erratic, and inspired.

00:05:36Marc:I didn't know if we were going to get along or not because I never know where the hell I stand in his mind.

00:05:41Marc:A while back when Brendan Burns from Australia was here,

00:05:45Marc:Who knows, Rick?

00:05:46Marc:We decided to call him.

00:05:47Marc:That didn't go well.

00:05:48Marc:Let's listen to that.

00:05:53Guest:Hello.

00:05:54Guest:Hey.

00:05:54Guest:Hey, Rick.

00:05:55Guest:It's Mark Maron.

00:05:56Guest:Yeah.

00:05:56Guest:How you doing, buddy?

00:05:58Guest:How you doing, Brendan?

00:05:59Guest:How did the Perth gigs go?

00:06:02Guest:Well, it went really great, man.

00:06:03Guest:I miss Australia all the time.

00:06:05Guest:Rick, I'm recording this for the podcast, and I was just talking about how you and I haven't talked in a while, and I want to have you on the show.

00:06:15Guest:But, you know, are we okay?

00:06:18Guest:Yeah, it'd be great.

00:06:19Guest:All right, man.

00:06:20Guest:I really appreciate that, man.

00:06:22Guest:So what have you been up to?

00:06:24Guest:A bunch of things.

00:06:26Guest:Wait, you mean a date for the podcast, or is this it now?

00:06:31Guest:No, no, no.

00:06:32Guest:I'll have you on again.

00:06:33Guest:Oh, do I know?

00:06:35Guest:Yeah.

00:06:36Guest:Is that why you're like, are you okay?

00:06:40Guest:Are you okay, Rick?

00:06:42Guest:That's what Mark always does.

00:06:43Guest:He's like, are you okay?

00:06:46Guest:Especially if he's with a hot chick.

00:06:48Guest:He's got to be like, hey, Rick.

00:06:51Guest:Let me talk to you like you're... Let me paint a picture of you that isn't true.

00:06:58Guest:Oh.

00:06:58Guest:Oh, I'm sorry.

00:06:59Guest:You're right.

00:07:00Guest:You're a pillar of fucking mental health and stability.

00:07:02Guest:I apologize.

00:07:03Guest:Rick has an amazing gift for matching the perfect celebrity with the perfect sex act with something that he's wearing.

00:07:11Guest:He comes up with a sentence like, this jacket's made out of Barry Reynolds jizz.

00:07:16Guest:And I don't know why, but I find that so fucking hysterical.

00:07:19Guest:Yeah.

00:07:21Guest:Thanks, man.

00:07:22Guest:Thanks, buddy, for saying something nice.

00:07:24Guest:That's cool.

00:07:25Guest:Oh, okay.

00:07:25Guest:I love you, buddy.

00:07:26Guest:You're a fucking amazing comic.

00:07:27Guest:No, I got a lot of time for you as well, my friend.

00:07:30Guest:What about me, Rick?

00:07:31Guest:What, you got no love for me, Rick?

00:07:34Guest:What?

00:07:34Guest:You got no love for me?

00:07:41Marc:So obviously after that, I mean, how do I know where I stand with this guy?

00:07:46Marc:He came over.

00:07:47Marc:We made up before he came over.

00:07:50Marc:And, yeah, I just have a lot of love for this guy.

00:07:54Marc:And he's not well.

00:07:55Marc:He's having some health issues.

00:07:58Marc:He was a little shaky when he was here.

00:08:00Marc:And then he had some problem with his heart.

00:08:04Marc:He had an event since I talked to him.

00:08:06Marc:And he's been in and out of the hospital for tests.

00:08:09Marc:And he's sort of immobilized.

00:08:12Marc:So if you got any love in your heart for Rick Shapiro, I would go to rickshapiro.tv.

00:08:16Marc:And they got a little thing set up there.

00:08:19Marc:You can kick in a few bucks because he needs help.

00:08:20Marc:You know, some of us comics, me, two years ago, many of us, we don't have a lot to fall back on.

00:08:29Marc:But I hope you enjoy this conversation with Rick.

00:08:33Marc:It goes places.

00:08:35Marc:In fragments.

00:08:42In fragments.

00:08:51Marc:What, you got a cold?

00:08:53Marc:Yeah, it just hit me.

00:08:56Guest:I don't know if I should call you.

00:08:58Guest:You know, some people out here, if you're not from New York, but you're from New York, they go like, oh, you have a cold?

00:09:07Guest:Yeah, don't come over.

00:09:10Guest:I had one yesterday.

00:09:11Guest:It's gone now.

00:09:13Guest:A subject of amazement.

00:09:14Guest:No, I think mine is still here.

00:09:17Guest:Yeah, it is a bit.

00:09:19Guest:Rick Shapiro.

00:09:22Marc:Can we start?

00:09:23Marc:Sure, we can start.

00:09:25Marc:So you got a cold.

00:09:26Marc:Don't you have like a cold opener?

00:09:29Marc:Sure, sure.

00:09:30Marc:I mean, I'll add that later.

00:09:31Marc:Do you want me to manufacture it?

00:09:33Marc:Hey, everybody.

00:09:34Marc:No, no, no, no.

00:09:38Marc:How you doing?

00:09:40Marc:I'm all right, man.

00:09:40Marc:Camel straight still.

00:09:42Marc:Yeah, you remember.

00:09:44Marc:You know how long I've fucking known you?

00:09:46Marc:I mean, seriously.

00:09:47Marc:I mean, do you ever think about that?

00:09:49Marc:Do you ever sit around and go, how long have I known Marc Maron?

00:09:53Marc:Never do that?

00:09:53Marc:i go no go ahead tell me what you do i'm starting to and and i never realized yeah yeah i know yeah you you work in a sort of uh you're you're ever present ever present no i don't think it's a vortex i just think that it's always now it's now now yeah right now what about a year ago i don't fucking know

00:10:20Guest:yeah right yeah that's funny man because you used to you know the first time we kind of started to know each other everyone was mad at me about something and you said we did you favors man and i was kind of new and i was like i'm sorry louis and mark and all and uh be sure you're not lumping me in with something what favors could i have done i picked up some fear of yeah i know

00:10:45Guest:I don't know if I did you any favors.

00:10:47Guest:No, you know what you did one time?

00:10:48Guest:You know what you did that was gorgeous?

00:10:52Guest:I was in the back of the comedy since I was downtown.

00:10:57Guest:Mike Royce was emceeing.

00:10:59Guest:We were all lined up to go on.

00:11:01Guest:We were all new.

00:11:03Guest:And I'm huddling in my chair because I didn't know I had that fear of people.

00:11:10Guest:What's that called?

00:11:12Guest:That thing, that fear of people.

00:11:15Guest:it'd be healthier for you if you knew specifically the terminology oh yeah death so he goes so you came down and you said something to somebody then you walked by and Royce gave you a big handshake and you go did he go on and Royce goes no I don't think we have time he goes you don't have time to put him on he goes no he goes put him on

00:11:45Guest:That's what you said.

00:11:45Guest:And I was like, wow, what a fucking sweetheart.

00:11:49Guest:And then I disappeared.

00:11:50Guest:You didn't go on?

00:11:53Guest:No, I went on.

00:11:54Guest:Okay.

00:11:54Guest:I went, you don't have to do that, Mark.

00:11:56Guest:You don't have to do that.

00:11:57Marc:Rick, I always, that was the weirdest thing is that as weird as it's gotten between us for reasons that only you understand, I've...

00:12:07Marc:They're not that hard to understand.

00:12:09Marc:Okay.

00:12:10Marc:Explain them to me.

00:12:11Marc:No, wait.

00:12:12Marc:Go on with your... I've always had nothing but warm feelings for you.

00:12:16Marc:Really?

00:12:17Marc:Oh, of course.

00:12:18Marc:You know, I always cared about you.

00:12:19Marc:I always enjoyed seeing you.

00:12:20Marc:I always was a huge fan of what you do.

00:12:23Marc:I just think that sometimes you got with me, you got a little sensitive, and you decided that I was an asshole at different points in time.

00:12:30Guest:Yeah, I don't remember how it all started.

00:12:33Guest:The last time?

00:12:33Guest:There were times people would point out to me... Yeah.

00:12:38Guest:they would say he feels threatened.

00:12:42Guest:Because I said, I don't know why Mark always makes these remarks.

00:12:45Guest:Oh, right.

00:12:46Guest:And you even made up a story, which we'll get into as I learn to breathe in this room.

00:12:54Guest:Okay.

00:12:55Guest:Because I live in L.A., you know, we don't have to confront.

00:12:58Marc:No, we can confront.

00:12:59Marc:That's not what happened.

00:13:00Marc:No, I don't have that anymore, man.

00:13:01Marc:You do stuff.

00:13:02Marc:I talk in a whisper.

00:13:03Guest:I'm a yoga instructor.

00:13:06Okay.

00:13:06Marc:So I'm trying to put the framework together.

00:13:10Marc:You showed up, like it must have been, what year was it?

00:13:12Marc:When did you start doing it, comedy?

00:13:14Marc:You think 92 or something?

00:13:16Guest:What is it, 25 years ago?

00:13:18Marc:Is it 25 years?

00:13:19Marc:So like me, like in the late 80s?

00:13:20Marc:Yeah.

00:13:21Marc:And where did you come from?

00:13:23Marc:You grew up on Long Island?

00:13:24Marc:No, I grew up in New Jersey.

00:13:25Marc:Which town?

00:13:27Marc:Tweed Jew.

00:13:29Marc:Tweed Jew, right, sure, I know.

00:13:30Marc:That's most of New Jersey.

00:13:31Guest:Outside Asbury Park.

00:13:32Guest:Really?

00:13:33Guest:Oakhurst.

00:13:34Marc:oakhurst that's where my aunt and uncle live in oakhurst what street i don't know it's they live by i used to go to deal beach when i was a kid deal casino no i used to go to the boardwalk with them the casino remember they had rides down there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i i i saw cheech and chon you did on there before i ever even knew what comedy was where was that at the casino they were opening for three dog night really yeah it was great how old were you

00:14:00Guest:Like 12?

00:14:00Guest:Must have been... I can't remember.

00:14:03Guest:Did you remember liking Cheech and Chong?

00:14:05Guest:All I know is they were on all fours, so I never understood what stand-up comedy was.

00:14:11Guest:I said, why do they call it stand-up?

00:14:13Guest:You do whatever you want.

00:14:15Guest:They were on all fours, sniffing each other's ass, and it was a riot.

00:14:18Marc:Oh, they were doing the dog shit joke, right?

00:14:20Guest:Yeah.

00:14:21Marc:Smell like dog shit.

00:14:22Marc:Looks like dog, probably, right?

00:14:23Guest:They were just doing all kinds of shit.

00:14:24Guest:I don't remember.

00:14:24Guest:Yeah, they were just doing all kinds of shit, and now if they did it, they'd be like, look at those two.

00:14:30Guest:They're on all fours crawling around like dogs.

00:14:33Guest:Yeah.

00:14:33Guest:Well, they're from UCB.

00:14:35Guest:Oh, okay, okay.

00:14:37Marc:A little pre-UCB.

00:14:38Marc:Yeah.

00:14:39Marc:But I liked Cheech and Chong when I was a kid.

00:14:41Marc:I loved him.

00:14:41Marc:Did you have comedy records?

00:14:43Guest:Yeah.

00:14:44Marc:Yeah?

00:14:44Guest:Steve Morton, Cheech and Chong.

00:14:46Marc:Yep.

00:14:46Guest:Red Fox.

00:14:47Marc:Yep.

00:14:48Guest:I can't remember the other ones.

00:14:49Marc:Now, you grew up, now you, okay, so you got a twin brother.

00:14:51Marc:That's the only two of you?

00:14:53Guest:And Barry Goldwater.

00:14:54Marc:Really, the three of you?

00:14:55Marc:That's interesting.

00:14:56Guest:No, it was a record album.

00:14:59Guest:Which one was Lenny Bruce?

00:15:00Marc:Not Barry Goldwater.

00:15:02Marc:He talked about Barry Goldwater probably a little bit.

00:15:04Guest:Damn right he did.

00:15:05Marc:Yeah.

00:15:05Marc:But it was what, just you and Rob or no?

00:15:07Marc:More?

00:15:08Guest:It was Rob, Steve, my sister.

00:15:13Guest:So four of you.

00:15:14Marc:Yeah.

00:15:14Marc:And your dad was a doctor?

00:15:16Marc:Yeah.

00:15:17Marc:See, I've always wondered about, because I've known he so long, I can only pick up, and I think a lot of people feel this way who love you, is you get fragments of the history of Rick Shapiro in the act.

00:15:27Marc:There's little vignettes where you're like, what just happened?

00:15:29Marc:What did he just say?

00:15:31Marc:What do you mean?

00:15:32Marc:His father was a doctor and there was heroin and then he was in Times Square and there were gay people involved?

00:15:37Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:37Marc:And then you're like, who's going to fill in this?

00:15:39Guest:That's what I was thinking all those years.

00:15:40Guest:I was like, am I a prostitute because my father was a dermatologist?

00:15:46Guest:Is he not supposed to look at my balls every fucking night?

00:15:50Guest:Did he?

00:15:51Guest:Yeah.

00:15:52Guest:Really?

00:15:52Guest:He'd come home and he'd say, I looked at a lot of disease today.

00:15:57Guest:Syphilis is starting to become a big thing.

00:16:02Guest:He'd say, everybody in the bathroom, one at a time, for a testicle check.

00:16:08Guest:And he'd look at my balls and my, you know, a couple years into seeing a shrink, he goes, your father was worried if a 12-year-old kid had syphilis?

00:16:20Guest:Yeah.

00:16:21Guest:He's not even supposed to do, it's illegal for a doctor to work on his kids?

00:16:26Marc:Isn't that weird?

00:16:27Guest:It's fucking pathetic.

00:16:29Marc:I had a doctor dad and there was always that line that, you know, you weren't sure if this was right.

00:16:33Marc:Yeah.

00:16:33Marc:Another exam like that?

00:16:34Marc:Yeah.

00:16:35Marc:How many times do I have to go through this?

00:16:36Marc:Yeah.

00:16:37Marc:Until I'm finished.

00:16:38Yeah.

00:16:38Guest:Is that what your father was?

00:16:39Guest:Till I'm finished.

00:16:43Guest:I ain't done yet.

00:16:45Guest:Oh, look what I've just discovered.

00:16:47Guest:The back of your balls look like these cute little angel wings.

00:16:51Marc:So would you classify it as abuse?

00:16:56Marc:Yeah.

00:16:56Marc:Or inappropriateness?

00:16:59Guest:I classify it as a form of control.

00:17:02Guest:Yeah.

00:17:05Guest:Sick control.

00:17:06Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:17:07Guest:Because I would freeze.

00:17:08Guest:I didn't know then.

00:17:09Marc:Right, because he's your dad.

00:17:10Marc:What are you going to do?

00:17:11Marc:He's...

00:17:12Guest:Yeah, but he's put on these headset glasses.

00:17:16Guest:Yeah.

00:17:17Guest:And his hands were cold, and I was like, I would freeze up and feel powerless.

00:17:23Guest:And after that, you walk around thinking he's the boss.

00:17:27Guest:Right.

00:17:27Guest:And everybody's the boss, and you're under everyone's control.

00:17:31Marc:Right.

00:17:31Guest:That's what happened to me.

00:17:32Marc:Right, so he just sort of annihilated.

00:17:34Guest:Which explains the mafia.

00:17:35Marc:Yeah, sure it explains the mafia, but your father was just a Jewish doctor, right?

00:17:39Right.

00:17:39Guest:Well, I never... Well, I wouldn't reduce it.

00:17:44Guest:That's a reductionist philosophy.

00:17:46Guest:That's where we never connected, that we knew that much about each other.

00:17:50Guest:We felt that.

00:17:51Marc:Yeah.

00:17:52Marc:I liked you, too.

00:17:53Marc:I always liked you.

00:17:53Guest:But you were at war with me.

00:17:56Guest:That was just your humor, and you read eight more books than me.

00:18:00Marc:No, I don't know if it was... You know, I've started a lot of books.

00:18:03Marc:I don't know if it was ever an intelligence thing.

00:18:05Guest:I finished one.

00:18:06Guest:Good for you.

00:18:07Guest:It's about Chuck Connors.

00:18:08Marc:No, I think that there was a point where...

00:18:11Marc:I was probably envious of the raw energy and the courage you brought to the stage.

00:18:19Marc:I won't deny that.

00:18:20Marc:And I'm sure that some of my busting your balls had something to do with that.

00:18:23Marc:And I apologize for that.

00:18:25Marc:But I always cared about you.

00:18:26Guest:Oh, I appreciate that.

00:18:28Guest:If only you had told me it's because of you I missed opportunities.

00:18:33Marc:No, I know.

00:18:34Marc:And I went out of my way to stop you from getting them.

00:18:36Guest:Yeah, like that time you came up to me at Caroline's.

00:18:40Guest:I didn't even miss opportunities.

00:18:45Guest:I got the opportunity, but I missed having that.

00:18:49Guest:A woman out here told me, Rick, she gives me a hug.

00:18:52Guest:I said, who are you?

00:18:54Guest:She goes, I cast you in Living Color.

00:18:58Guest:I said, I was in Living Color, I was cast?

00:19:00Guest:She goes, yeah, it was you and...

00:19:03Guest:And that nice gentleman, Andy Carey, Jim Carey, Jamie Foxx, and you were our three breakaway guys.

00:19:13Guest:We thought you were the ones who were going to hit us.

00:19:14Guest:And how come I didn't know this?

00:19:17Guest:She goes, nobody could find you.

00:19:19Guest:I said, I was probably down there doing an hour and 40 minutes at 2 a.m.

00:19:23Guest:in front of no one.

00:19:25Marc:Yeah.

00:19:26Guest:Which is how it was back then.

00:19:28Marc:We were kind of hard to find.

00:19:29Marc:I mean, either you were at the Sidewalk Cafe doing your show or you were somewhere.

00:19:33Marc:Who the hell knew where you were?

00:19:35Marc:Staying at someone's house.

00:19:36Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:19:37Marc:I mean, it wasn't easy to find you, but it seems that... I'm only staying somewhere.

00:19:40Marc:Yeah, and I don't remember you ever having a place.

00:19:42Marc:You'd be like, where are you staying?

00:19:44Marc:It's like, I'm staying at this girl's house.

00:19:47Marc:Who?

00:19:47Marc:I don't know.

00:19:48Marc:I just met her, but I'm living there.

00:19:50Guest:That's why the East Village was great.

00:19:53Guest:Yeah.

00:19:53Guest:Until about one or two of the finals.

00:19:59Guest:Yeah.

00:20:01Guest:When it became real true, true trendy and you moved in with a girl and she said, eat this, it's haman bean.

00:20:07Guest:Yeah.

00:20:09Guest:It's kushkra beans.

00:20:11Guest:Well, that's what we're going to eat from now on.

00:20:14Guest:I moved in with a girl.

00:20:16Guest:We were in love, supposedly, which we weren't.

00:20:19Guest:And I moved in and I said, can I sit on your couch?

00:20:22Guest:She goes, yeah, it's your couch now.

00:20:25Guest:I said, oh, can I look in your refrigerator?

00:20:28Guest:She goes, it's your refrigerator.

00:20:31Guest:I said, I can have anything I want.

00:20:33Guest:I was like, wow, I got a house now.

00:20:39Marc:it was nice for a while I remember the one thing I remember about running into you like yeah I mean you know I guess you know I was a smart ass to you and you were awfully sensitive because at different points yeah I was very very scared and sensitive and you got very angry and we both got very angry but we've been through this over and over again you and I over the years you know that we'd be okay and I'd make you laugh and you'd make me laugh and we'd connect really quickly and deeply and we'd have a good role going and then like boom then something would happen a few weeks later

00:21:08Marc:I fuck up somehow.

00:21:12Marc:I try to have boundaries.

00:21:13Marc:I think neither one of us have very good boundaries, so we get up inside each other's shit.

00:21:18Guest:Yeah, but it became...

00:21:23Guest:Like, it became a thing I didn't want it to become.

00:21:27Guest:Yeah.

00:21:28Guest:And I became paranoid, I think, after Jay Moore stole the Irish guy, my character.

00:21:34Guest:Yeah.

00:21:35Guest:And I was like, wow, Jay was my friend.

00:21:37Guest:Right.

00:21:38Guest:So I, and Nancy Shane came up to me and said, everybody here is your enemy.

00:21:45Guest:Remember that?

00:21:46Marc:It's always good to listen to sane people.

00:21:48Guest:Yeah, I listened to, well, that's what happened when I gave up drugs.

00:21:52Guest:I listened to nuts.

00:21:55Guest:In AA, I would only listen to the toothless guy who doesn't know he's a tranny.

00:22:00Guest:It's true.

00:22:01Guest:There's other friends who didn't know that they were crossed.

00:22:04Guest:You want to come get soup with us?

00:22:09Guest:Why do you think you did that?

00:22:10Guest:I got scared.

00:22:13Guest:Louis came up to me.

00:22:14Guest:I was kind of new, but I shot some of his shorts.

00:22:17Marc:I remember those shorts, Brunch, and a couple other ones, yeah.

00:22:20Guest:They were good, and he was great to work with and all that.

00:22:26Guest:And he goes, you're part of a crew now, so every Sunday we have Brunch, and you can come.

00:22:37Guest:And we jam, we mess around, and I went like, oh, thanks.

00:22:40Guest:And I was like...

00:22:41Guest:So I walked by as a brownstone three times.

00:22:47Guest:Then I stepped up one day, knocked on the door, and then I ran.

00:22:52Guest:I can't believe it.

00:22:54Guest:Like, people were trying to be friends.

00:22:56Marc:Right.

00:22:56Guest:That's what you told me one time.

00:22:59Guest:People were trying to be your friend, Rick.

00:23:00Guest:Yeah.

00:23:01Guest:Like, when I saw you in the, for lack of a better word, the green room at UCB.

00:23:09Guest:Yeah.

00:23:11Guest:And you said, you want to get past everything and be on my podcast?

00:23:16Guest:Yeah.

00:23:17Guest:And I said, yeah, thanks.

00:23:19Guest:And then when I walked out, I heard you and somebody else laugh.

00:23:23Guest:And I went running saying, I ain't never been on your podcast.

00:23:26Guest:You're a goddamn prick.

00:23:27Marc:Oh, that was because of the laugh?

00:23:29Guest:Yeah, did I misunderstand that fucking laugh?

00:23:32Marc:Yeah.

00:23:33Guest:I did?

00:23:33Marc:Yeah.

00:23:34Guest:Well, get out of here.

00:23:35Marc:No, I thought you'd made something up about, like, I don't know what the fuck it was.

00:23:40Marc:Like, I thought when you came back and said that, that when you said, yeah, I'll do your podcast, I thought you were fucking with me then.

00:23:45Marc:I mean, the thing about you is- Wow, because I meant it.

00:23:48Marc:Right.

00:23:49Marc:And then you walked out.

00:23:51Marc:You have to understand something about you is that a lot of times just by virtue of who you are and the character you are and in everybody's hearts and minds, a lot of times, you know, you may not try to be funny, but, you know, you're funny.

00:24:02Marc:And it's sort of like that scene in Goodfellas.

00:24:05Marc:Like, what are you laughing?

00:24:06Marc:You know, like you like I'm an asshole.

00:24:08Marc:You're laughing at me.

00:24:09Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:10Marc:It's just... Funny how... Yeah, right, right, right.

00:24:12Marc:That's you.

00:24:13Marc:Like I'm a fucking... What do you mean funny?

00:24:15Marc:Like a clown funny?

00:24:16Marc:That actually helps.

00:24:17Marc:I wish we'd talked for years.

00:24:19Marc:But you know what I'm saying?

00:24:21Marc:Here's my issue that I always have with you is that you're a fucking hilarious guy.

00:24:25Marc:I always thought you were hilarious, but not unlike me in a different way.

00:24:28Marc:You take yourself very seriously.

00:24:30Marc:So if somebody's laughing out of context...

00:24:32Marc:If it's a laugh that you didn't design, you're like, why the fuck are you laughing at me?

00:24:37Marc:Well, because you're a funny guy.

00:24:38Marc:Yeah, but I wasn't trying to be funny then.

00:24:40Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:41Guest:If somebody did it, I was like, because you're funny.

00:24:45Guest:I was like, fuck you.

00:24:46Marc:Yeah, right.

00:24:47Marc:That wasn't trying to be funny right then.

00:24:48Marc:I was just trying to be me, and you're fucking laughing at my face.

00:24:51Guest:Wow, this is great.

00:24:55Marc:No, I got to let this in.

00:24:56Marc:This is wild.

00:24:58Guest:so I think that like you know a lot of time well it's like you know I don't know where you are with Rob it doesn't matter but he like you know I said like on this podcast who was I talking to Brendan Burns and we called you that time yeah I thought it was a prank I thought he was making a fool out of me no I just thought you know what you said hey Rick yeah it's more how's your health how's your mental health doing and I was like why is he gonna try to paint me as some guy with poor mental health like some shoddy fuck up

00:25:27Marc:Now, see, you added that last part.

00:25:29Marc:Poor mental health, I think, is sometimes a reasonable assessment.

00:25:32Guest:The shoddy fuck up is what I really am.

00:25:35Marc:No, you're not.

00:25:36Guest:No, you added that part.

00:25:38Guest:I know, I know.

00:25:40Guest:But why would you fucking call up a guy you respect and be like, hey, retard.

00:25:45Marc:No, I didn't.

00:25:46Marc:Not retard.

00:25:47Guest:You're schizo.

00:25:49Guest:Well, that's closer.

00:25:50Marc:I'm not schizo.

00:25:51Marc:There's nothing schizo about me.

00:25:53Marc:I know that.

00:25:54Marc:I'm not schizo, but you have your struggles.

00:25:56Marc:I have a stutter.

00:25:58Marc:No, it's not a stutter.

00:25:59Marc:That's because I teach children.

00:26:01Marc:Like a profound memory in my mind is running into you on the street in the Lower East Side and you couldn't talk right.

00:26:11Marc:And then I was like, what's the matter?

00:26:13Marc:And you're like, China's new medication.

00:26:15Marc:And you couldn't fucking talk right.

00:26:18Marc:And I felt horrible.

00:26:19Marc:And that was the first time I learned that they didn't know.

00:26:22Marc:They don't know what the fuck they're doing with medication.

00:26:24Marc:Yeah.

00:26:24Marc:And like you were, you know, you were just sort of like, we're trying to work and make it right.

00:26:28Marc:You remember?

00:26:29Marc:Yeah.

00:26:29Marc:And it broke my heart and I thought it was so sad.

00:26:32Guest:But as I'm talking to your girlfriend at the time at the store and you came over and said, and you did that laugh like, hee hee hee.

00:26:42Guest:uh i'll never forget the time yeah you came up to me in the east village rick and you were shaking and quivering and your clothes were all like ripped or something yeah you started to look around at other people like and you said do you have money for my medication i don't think that's what you said i don't think so yeah i don't have that memory

00:27:03Guest:Well, you don't have that memory.

00:27:05Marc:No, I would never say shaking and quivering.

00:27:07Marc:And I don't think I would have said, I don't remember you ever saying, do you have money for my medication?

00:27:11Marc:I think you're mixing me up.

00:27:12Guest:I may have, you said shaking.

00:27:16Guest:Oh.

00:27:16Guest:But in another word, like quivering.

00:27:20Guest:Okay.

00:27:21Guest:I'm so mad at you.

00:27:22Guest:You did it.

00:27:23Guest:You said, can you loan me some money for my Medicaid?

00:27:28Guest:And I was like, I never did that.

00:27:29Guest:Yes, you did.

00:27:30Guest:Yes, you did.

00:27:31Guest:I even told my friends.

00:27:34Guest:I said, they go, Mark Maron's here.

00:27:37Guest:And you said, hi.

00:27:38Guest:You know Mark Maron?

00:27:39Guest:I said, wait 10 seconds and then see how you feel.

00:27:44Guest:And they go, what an asshole.

00:27:47Guest:And I get what I'm telling you is.

00:27:49Marc:That's all right.

00:27:51Marc:It's because I come up and I think that I get defensive around you and it's like some fucked up way.

00:27:57Marc:Because, look, I've known you a long time.

00:27:59Marc:I mean, there's a point where you're very hard for us because I think we connect almost immediately.

00:28:05Marc:Like, despite whatever relationship you have with everybody else in the world, I can push your buttons in a second for some fucking reason.

00:28:13Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:28:13Marc:And, you know, it goes both ways.

00:28:15Marc:So...

00:28:16Guest:I can push yours?

00:28:17Guest:That's good to know.

00:28:17Marc:Yeah, of course you can.

00:28:19Marc:Because you get angry at me immediately because you're so sensitive around me and like you're a raw nerve around me.

00:28:25Marc:And for some reason, I decide to play with that.

00:28:28Marc:And I always get in trouble because I get you mad.

00:28:30Guest:I'm getting this right now, so I have to exalt it.

00:28:37Guest:You've had to protect yourself, but you're a deeply...

00:28:44Guest:Wait, caring?

00:28:45Guest:Is that the word?

00:28:46Marc:Maybe.

00:28:47Marc:I have a feeling I'm going to take a hit here in a minute.

00:28:50Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:28:51Guest:Not at all.

00:28:52Guest:Deeply, you're incredibly smart.

00:28:55Guest:Like, you can see the world, like, lying down in the grass.

00:28:59Guest:Yeah.

00:29:01Guest:You see people, and you don't want to care the way you really can care.

00:29:07Guest:Right.

00:29:08Guest:But you can also walk away fast.

00:29:10Right.

00:29:10Marc:But usually I'll take a shot.

00:29:12Marc:As opposed to care, I'll poke.

00:29:14Guest:Yeah, but you don't even like that.

00:29:15Guest:You don't even want to.

00:29:16Guest:Not really.

00:29:16Guest:You want to study him.

00:29:18Marc:Yeah.

00:29:18Marc:And I want to give him a hug, I think.

00:29:21Marc:Yeah.

00:29:21Marc:I think we're both looking for our dads.

00:29:23Marc:And when we get together, it's like, you can't be him.

00:29:27Marc:And then you look at me and go, you can't be him.

00:29:29Marc:And then we fight.

00:29:31Guest:You're the dad I was looking for.

00:29:32Guest:No, it can't be.

00:29:34Guest:Oh, great.

00:29:34Guest:I thought it was Brendan Burns or something.

00:29:35Guest:That would have been horrible.

00:29:43Marc:What the hell happened after you... When did you leave home, though?

00:29:46Marc:Where's the other story happen?

00:29:47Marc:Where's the prostitute story happen?

00:29:49Guest:Well, that happened when I was with my husband on the Grand Concourse on the day six in, which is an absolute nirvanic mecca.

00:30:00Guest:You know, I don't, nirvanic.

00:30:04Guest:The new word, I like it.

00:30:04Guest:It's new and it's very important now.

00:30:06Marc:It is, I like it.

00:30:07Guest:Yeah, you're nirvanic.

00:30:08Marc:I think he started a meme.

00:30:10Guest:Yeah, whoever did that.

00:30:13Guest:Meta.

00:30:14Guest:Why are you wasting my time?

00:30:16Guest:Why do you go like, yeah, it's meta.

00:30:19Guest:It's a meme that got thrown in.

00:30:20Guest:Now they get this feel like they gnosis.

00:30:24Guest:Meme.

00:30:26Guest:It's a meme that I put before I put the mushroom on the hot dog.

00:30:29Guest:It's like a meme thing.

00:30:30Guest:you're not saying anything well i said meme so i got to look at them with all my fierce intellect all my divine powering fierceness yeah but i was hanging around with one tooth tranny's looking at jimmy norton at a late night a meeting saying how come he gets to do perform and come to a i learned a was all i'll ever need

00:30:56Guest:Where you at with AA now?

00:30:57Marc:Anywhere?

00:30:57Guest:I don't go anymore.

00:30:59Guest:I'm thinking of it.

00:31:01Guest:I mean, I haven't thought about it in years.

00:31:02Guest:I just don't go.

00:31:04Marc:Yeah.

00:31:05Marc:But you're still clean?

00:31:06Guest:Still sober?

00:31:07Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:07Guest:But I feel like I came in so abused with the street life, you know, whatever you want to call it.

00:31:15Marc:Well, what was that?

00:31:16Marc:I mean, you left home when?

00:31:18Guest:16.

00:31:20Guest:I went to my sister's apartment.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah.

00:31:23Guest:I stayed there.

00:31:25Guest:They gave me tuition money.

00:31:27Guest:I gambled it away.

00:31:28Marc:On what?

00:31:30Marc:What'd you play?

00:31:31Marc:Horses.

00:31:32Marc:Okay.

00:31:33Marc:Old school.

00:31:33Marc:That's good.

00:31:35Marc:Did you know what you were doing?

00:31:37Guest:I thought I did.

00:31:37Guest:I didn't know shit.

00:31:39Guest:Just went to the track?

00:31:39Guest:I just knew wet tracks help long shots.

00:31:44Guest:So I'd take a girl and be like, it's a muddy track.

00:31:46Guest:We'll do all right.

00:31:48Guest:My hero.

00:31:49Marc:Did you really know Burt Reynolds?

00:31:51Marc:But when did all the bullshit start with the drugs and stuff?

00:31:55Guest:my sister moved out of her apartment for a while yeah my twin brother moved in and uh he met a girl and she came into the next room starts blowing me he throws her out she tells me to come downstairs with her she's in a limousine she takes me

00:32:17Guest:shopping puts coke up keeps shoveling coke and I go where'd you get all this I'm a prostitute I'm a call girl now I'm rich yeah she didn't say I'm rich did you know her from before

00:32:32Guest:I knew her from the night before.

00:32:34Guest:Yeah.

00:32:35Guest:And she goes, I said, can you get me involved in this?

00:32:41Guest:So she goes, well, you'd have to do guys first.

00:32:44Guest:And I said, I can't fuck.

00:32:48Guest:I'm not going to screw a guy who gets screwed.

00:32:50Guest:You got to let him blow you.

00:32:52Guest:That's all you got to do.

00:32:53Guest:So I said, maybe I could do that.

00:32:56Guest:Because I was in heavy debt.

00:32:58Guest:I was in problem land.

00:33:00Marc:From gambling?

00:33:01Guest:From everything.

00:33:04Guest:From gambling, trying to hold down a job called the cockeyed clam.

00:33:08Guest:I couldn't wait tables with clams on them.

00:33:11Guest:I kept taking clams off the plates.

00:33:16Guest:No, you didn't.

00:33:16Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:33:17Guest:Well, when the garbage went by, I grabbed clams.

00:33:19Guest:Well, I was the only busboy to get tipped a dollar.

00:33:23Guest:The cockeyed clam.

00:33:25Guest:Yeah, you believe that?

00:33:27Guest:Yeah.

00:33:27Guest:The cockeyed clam.

00:33:28Guest:Is it really called that?

00:33:28Guest:It was a franchise with different clam names.

00:33:32Guest:Like the broken clam.

00:33:33Guest:Are you serious?

00:33:34Guest:Yeah.

00:33:36Guest:Isn't that funny?

00:33:36Guest:That's the funniest stuff.

00:33:39Guest:Then I made sandwiches and all these black guys were in jail.

00:33:43Guest:We're coming out of Rikers.

00:33:45Guest:Yeah.

00:33:46Guest:And they go...

00:33:49Guest:I couldn't get a straight job because I looked like a nut.

00:33:52Guest:So I wore a suit to a sandwich making job interview.

00:33:56Guest:I told him I managed a place called Javaville in Hollywood.

00:34:01Guest:I was in New York.

00:34:01Guest:He goes, oh, I've heard of that place.

00:34:03Guest:You manage that?

00:34:04Guest:That's hot.

00:34:05Guest:And I said, it must be my dagger suit.

00:34:08Guest:So the black guys are like, I just got out of right because five days ago my counselor put me here.

00:34:16Guest:I just got out.

00:34:18Guest:I spent eight years there.

00:34:19Guest:I spent six.

00:34:20Guest:How about you?

00:34:20Guest:Four years.

00:34:22Guest:How about you?

00:34:22Guest:Three.

00:34:23Guest:And then one black guy goes, hey, dude.

00:34:25Guest:He sees me walking.

00:34:26Guest:He goes,

00:34:26Guest:how long why are you here why were you placed here dude and I said I'm mentally ill and they all shut up it was early on like now everybody's used to a crazy white guy but back then they were like a crazy white guy what the fuck yeah

00:34:46Guest:And I looked at him with that smile in my eyes.

00:34:48Marc:Yeah.

00:34:50Marc:So some hooker said you could get money for letting guys blow you.

00:34:55Guest:It's a bunch of stories.

00:34:57Guest:I have three memories of how it started.

00:35:00Guest:Yeah.

00:35:00Guest:One time I was taking an acting class.

00:35:02Guest:Well, her thing was, go see this guy, John Wren, and he'll blow you and decide if he likes you.

00:35:11Guest:And I couldn't get it up, because I'm straight, and I said, I've been jogging a lot.

00:35:18Guest:Does that do something to your hard-on?

00:35:21Guest:I'm having a hard time with it.

00:35:22Guest:I don't want to stop jogging, because it feels good, but it's ruining my hard-on.

00:35:28Guest:Do you know about this in the business?

00:35:31Guest:No.

00:35:31Guest:And he goes, oh, go be a masseuse.

00:35:34Guest:Here's the address.

00:35:35Guest:So I'd massage these guys, and they'd have to blow me, and I'd go, I've been jogging a lot.

00:35:42Guest:Yeah.

00:35:42Marc:So he said you're not going to be a good prostitute, but he'll give you money.

00:35:46Marc:He was like your test guy.

00:35:47Marc:He's the first obstacle you got to cross?

00:35:50Marc:Yeah.

00:35:50Marc:You're no good at this.

00:35:51Marc:Go be a masseuse.

00:35:52Guest:Yeah.

00:35:53Guest:See how that goes.

00:35:53Guest:Yeah.

00:35:54Guest:All right.

00:35:55Guest:And then the guy goes...

00:35:57Guest:Mother Hen has to talk to her chickens.

00:36:00Guest:Someone's not getting it up for the customers.

00:36:02Guest:And I said, I've been jogging, you know.

00:36:05Guest:And then I had bangs, little nose, you know.

00:36:08Guest:Yeah.

00:36:08Guest:It was before all that shit.

00:36:12Guest:And he goes, well, I have a special customer for you today.

00:36:15Guest:Uh-huh.

00:36:16Guest:And I didn't even think.

00:36:17Guest:Yeah.

00:36:18Guest:Anybody would know, like, I'm getting out of here now.

00:36:20Guest:Yeah.

00:36:21Guest:I'm like the nurse that gets raped in the parking lot.

00:36:26Guest:And I go,

00:36:27Guest:Oh, okay.

00:36:30Guest:And he sends over this bodybuilder.

00:36:32Guest:Yeah.

00:36:33Guest:Big fucker.

00:36:34Guest:The guy locks the door when he comes in, and he starts chasing me around the room.

00:36:39Guest:Yeah.

00:36:40Guest:Picks up a lamp, tries to hit me with it.

00:36:44Guest:Then he drops the lamp, grabs my shoulder.

00:36:46Guest:I'm running like this.

00:36:47Guest:He grabs my shoulder, flips me onto the bed, and shoves this giant fucking cock down.

00:36:52Guest:down my my into my mouth at least i didn't know that i wasn't a deep throater yeah yeah no no but i like palominos sure i like traveling sure but i don't like you know i can't take it down the whole throat yeah my breath at the time smelled like cognac and cheap cigars sure he wasn't giving you much of a choice it didn't sound like no so so this guy raped you

00:37:15Guest:Yeah, and I didn't even realize it then.

00:37:17Guest:I just figured I learned how to treat a cock like it's a piece of wood.

00:37:24Guest:Yeah.

00:37:25Guest:I just went, it's wood, it's wood.

00:37:26Guest:Yeah, it's nothing.

00:37:26Guest:And I get my money and leave.

00:37:28Guest:But I learned to do a con, which I'll tell you, where they didn't get to blow me, I didn't blow them.

00:37:33Marc:Really?

00:37:33Guest:Yeah.

00:37:34Marc:What drugs were you doing then?

00:37:35Marc:Just coke?

00:37:36Marc:Dope.

00:37:38Marc:Coke and heroin.

00:37:40Marc:Snorting heroin?

00:37:41Marc:Rebooting it?

00:37:42Marc:What were you doing?

00:37:42Guest:Smoking it.

00:37:43Guest:Yeah.

00:37:44Guest:Just smoking it mainly.

00:37:46Marc:Snorting it.

00:37:49Marc:Okay, so if you want to talk about that lovely book that you brought over.

00:37:54Marc:Yeah.

00:37:56Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:37:57Guest:I wrote this interesting book.

00:37:59Guest:You can't label it.

00:38:01Guest:You can't even call it good or bad.

00:38:03Guest:I swear.

00:38:04Guest:It's an experience.

00:38:06Marc:What's it called?

00:38:07Guest:Unfiltered.

00:38:08Marc:And it's a book of primarily pieces, rants, pieces, poems, things, lists?

00:38:13Yeah.

00:38:14Guest:Whatever there was going on, like there's journal, little journal stuff, there's riffs, rants.

00:38:23Guest:How'd you put it together?

00:38:24Guest:Not rants, I hate that word.

00:38:26Guest:Yeah, I know you do.

00:38:27Guest:It's a surprising lyricism of anger and clarity.

00:38:33Guest:And also, I want to try a book that...

00:38:38Guest:I can't describe what it is, like a cloud.

00:38:41Marc:No, I don't know.

00:38:42Marc:With man words.

00:38:43Marc:It's pure Shapiro.

00:38:45Marc:Yeah.

00:38:45Marc:It's unfiltered, pure Shapiro in words.

00:38:47Marc:It's interesting because a lot of people, they know you and they listen to you and they see you do your thing, but I don't know if anyone's ever seen it on paper.

00:38:55Marc:Have you ever seen it all on paper?

00:38:56Marc:Usually it's just on your arm or your hand.

00:38:58Guest:No, those days are over.

00:39:01Guest:Now I go on.

00:39:02Marc:Did I hurt your feelings just then by saying that?

00:39:03Guest:No, but I felt like I had to defend and make sure people don't get the wrong idea.

00:39:09Guest:Another guy in the industry trying to paint me a little... Let me see your hands.

00:39:14Marc:Check it out, man.

00:39:15Marc:He's got clean hands.

00:39:16Guest:I'm showing Mark Maron my hands.

00:39:17Marc:Nothing written on the hands.

00:39:18Marc:When did that stop?

00:39:20Marc:What did you do to your hand?

00:39:21Marc:Did you hit a wall?

00:39:22Guest:No, I hit a bag without wraps.

00:39:24Guest:Oh.

00:39:24Guest:A heavy bag.

00:39:25Marc:Oh, okay.

00:39:27Marc:That's healthy hitting.

00:39:28Marc:When did you stop writing your bits on your hand?

00:39:31Marc:A long time ago.

00:39:32Marc:Good for you.

00:39:33Marc:Yeah.

00:39:33Marc:I liked it, though.

00:39:34Marc:It always had a signature style.

00:39:36Marc:When he saw you on the street, he'd always have everything written on your hand.

00:39:40Guest:No, everybody does it.

00:39:41Guest:Do they?

00:39:42Guest:All these new guys.

00:39:43Marc:They must be the army of Shapiro.

00:39:45Marc:You're a guy, you take in a few of these wayward, starry-eyed kids.

00:39:52Guest:That's because I need rides out here.

00:39:54Guest:Well, I know that.

00:39:55Guest:But the thing is...

00:39:57Guest:Well, look, look, look.

00:39:59Marc:I always saw you.

00:40:00Marc:That was the funny thing.

00:40:00Marc:Like, I'd walk into the fucking 101, and you'd either be sitting in the lobby area, writing things down, giving me stink eye, or you'd be sitting inside the restaurant.

00:40:13Marc:Stink eye.

00:40:13Marc:You'd be sitting inside the restaurant with some kid who was like, you know, I knew the kid.

00:40:17Marc:He was like, oh, my God, Rick Shapiro's a genius, and I'm having coffee with him.

00:40:20Marc:And I'm like, well, you're going to be getting phone calls at 2 or 3 in the morning.

00:40:24Marc:You're going to be driving him around a lot.

00:40:25Guest:Yeah.

00:40:25Marc:I know that job.

00:40:27Marc:Good luck with that.

00:40:28Marc:Nice to see you, Rick.

00:40:30Guest:And they're gone.

00:40:31Guest:When they find out I don't have a series, they go, you're not even up for a series?

00:40:36Guest:Is that true?

00:40:37Guest:I think they probably just... They disappear.

00:40:39Guest:You don't think it's because you wake them up all night long and ask them questions?

00:40:42Guest:I don't wake people up anymore.

00:40:44Guest:If I had your number, I would have woken you up.

00:40:47Guest:I had a rule in my house.

00:40:49Guest:I had a rule in my house.

00:40:50Guest:I said, never give your phone number to a Shapiro.

00:40:53Guest:We need to sleep.

00:40:54Guest:Would Rob do that?

00:40:57Guest:Yeah.

00:40:57Guest:He may be missing.

00:40:58Guest:Maybe he'll be friends with me.

00:41:00Marc:What the fuck is going on with you two?

00:41:01Marc:How come that never ends?

00:41:02Marc:It's crazy.

00:41:03Marc:I know.

00:41:04Marc:Oh, that was the thing I was going to tell you, is that I was talking to Brendan Byrne, and we called you, and that's where we were.

00:41:10Marc:And I asked you about your mental health because it's a reasonable question.

00:41:13Marc:I asked out of concern.

00:41:13Marc:You thought I was being condescending.

00:41:15Marc:Well, everybody has to hear that.

00:41:16Marc:I've known you a long time.

00:41:18Marc:And I've seen you go through a lot of different things from afar.

00:41:22Marc:And when somebody knows you 25 years, you Rick Shapiro, and says, how's your mental health?

00:41:27Marc:He's not being a condescending cunt.

00:41:29Marc:It's a reasonable question.

00:41:30Guest:Are you sure?

00:41:31Guest:Is that true?

00:41:32Guest:Yes.

00:41:33Guest:But with all your listeners, you're like, how's your mental health?

00:41:37Marc:Okay, I understand your point.

00:41:38Guest:I'm not ashamed.

00:41:39Guest:I just don't want to be painted like that.

00:41:43Guest:I'd rather you be like a false doctor and go, Rick, we know you've been through a lot of tragedies, had a difficulty at times with certain things.

00:41:53Guest:How are you feeling now?

00:41:55Marc:Would you rather I do it that way?

00:41:56Guest:Yeah.

00:41:57Marc:All right.

00:41:58Marc:Again, you're right.

00:42:00Marc:Honestly, you're probably right.

00:42:03Marc:I don't know how I want you to do it.

00:42:06Marc:No, maybe it was condescending.

00:42:07Marc:How is it not condescending?

00:42:08Marc:You're right.

00:42:09Marc:In a public forum, why would I do that?

00:42:11Marc:You're right.

00:42:12Marc:Condescending.

00:42:13Marc:It was condescending.

00:42:14Marc:Wow.

00:42:15Marc:So why do you want to hurt me?

00:42:17Marc:Because I don't know what else to do sometimes.

00:42:19Marc:I'm trying to be funny and I like getting you worked up.

00:42:25Guest:Wait, why do you almost make sense?

00:42:27Guest:I don't get that.

00:42:28Marc:What do you mean?

00:42:28Guest:Because sometimes... Because you're a burst of laughter and there's not a lot of people around because...

00:42:36Guest:Sometimes when I throw- There's not a lot of people around for you to fucking explosively banter with.

00:42:42Marc:That's probably right.

00:42:43Marc:But sometimes when I see you- It is right.

00:42:45Marc:We get on a little riff, right?

00:42:46Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:46Marc:And we have a good time.

00:42:47Marc:And then sometimes I'll say one thing to you, and then it just, you turn into like, fuck you.

00:42:53Marc:And then it's like over.

00:42:55Marc:And I guess I just gamble with you.

00:42:59Marc:Because I'm the same, you like to get a reaction, don't you?

00:43:03Marc:I like to get a reaction.

00:43:04Marc:But I choose, you look-

00:43:06Marc:a reaction oh yes you do maybe that's a hidden part of me oh that'd be more fun but what i'm what i think is that like you know when you look to crazy people because you want advice and you only pick the toothless person at the aa meeting because you think they know the truth they got to know the truth they got nothing yeah right so like i think in the same way with you like i i look at you as sort of a sage dude in your own explosive way and when i push your buttons i'm going to see something

00:43:33Guest:That's great.

00:43:34Guest:Because that's how I feel about you.

00:43:36Marc:But I pay for it.

00:43:37Marc:I mean, I got to walk around for 10 months going like, I don't know, fucking Shapiro.

00:43:41Marc:He's pissed off at me again for something he made up, I think.

00:43:44Guest:Well, you got a great life.

00:43:47Guest:See, let me explain that really more.

00:43:51Guest:I get envious of guys who are taught or learned how to build and keep things together.

00:44:00Guest:Barely.

00:44:03Guest:What do you mean?

00:44:05Marc:If I was left to my own devices, if I didn't have a couple of good women in my life at different points in my life, both of them gone now, I got another one now, I would be living out of boxes.

00:44:15Marc:I wouldn't have bought this fucking house if I wasn't with a woman who said, why don't you buy a house?

00:44:20Marc:I go, because then the money won't be in the bank and I don't know how to buy a house.

00:44:24Marc:And then now I got a house.

00:44:26Marc:So now, I mean, there were things in my life.

00:44:28Marc:I was brought up with boundaryless fucking idiot parents as well.

00:44:31Marc:They're not idiots, but they didn't have any boundaries.

00:44:32Marc:They didn't teach me anything.

00:44:34Guest:You were smarter than them.

00:44:35Marc:Well, I'm smart, but I mean, you know, keeping my shit together is not second nature to me.

00:44:40Marc:I mean, look at me.

00:44:41Marc:I'm not fucking Louie.

00:44:42Marc:I'm not, you know, I didn't know how to use my talent.

00:44:44Marc:I didn't know anything.

00:44:45Marc:I'm lucky, you know, two years ago, I was, you know, I was broke and I didn't know what the fuck I was going to do when I started doing this in my garage.

00:44:50Marc:It was all a crapshoot.

00:44:52Marc:I never, you know, I got other, I got opportunities.

00:44:54Marc:But I got opportunities.

00:44:56Marc:I think that maybe you were pissed off because I got opportunities and I kept my shit together enough to figure out how to do stand-up in a regular.

00:45:03Marc:No, I was just managing out of the car.

00:45:04Guest:I had a car.

00:45:05Guest:And then you kept showing up.

00:45:07Guest:You were the one guy you would say they weren't getting... I said, that was great.

00:45:13Guest:He goes, yeah, when they get me.

00:45:15Guest:Yeah.

00:45:16Guest:Everybody else was figuring out how to be gotten and that was it.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:20Guest:You were exploring.

00:45:21Guest:Like, I remember your AIDS joke.

00:45:22Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:24Guest:Which I loved.

00:45:25Guest:Which one was that?

00:45:26Guest:Um...

00:45:28Guest:You try to figure, if I have HIV, who'd I get that from?

00:45:33Guest:Oh, right.

00:45:33Guest:You don't go get a test.

00:45:36Guest:You go through your mind and you click, click, click.

00:45:38Guest:Not her, not her.

00:45:39Marc:How'd he get in there?

00:45:41Guest:Yeah, you remember that show.

00:45:42Guest:Yeah, I used to love that.

00:45:43Guest:I used to love that.

00:45:44Marc:The Subconscious Swide Show.

00:45:45Marc:Click, not her.

00:45:47Marc:Click, her.

00:45:47Marc:Hey, how'd he get in there?

00:45:49Yeah.

00:45:49Guest:I love that.

00:45:51Guest:I forgot that joke.

00:45:52Guest:Two moments I love, Lizzie.

00:45:55Guest:Really that stand out.

00:45:57Guest:How'd he get in there?

00:45:58Guest:Hey, hey.

00:45:59Guest:Hey, how'd he get in there?

00:46:01Guest:And when Reggie McFadden became a homeless guy because his house burnt down, he'd be like, well, goodbye.

00:46:08Guest:He found a cart.

00:46:10Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:10Guest:He starts pushing a cart away.

00:46:12Guest:Right, right, right.

00:46:12Guest:I said, those are perfect moments, man.

00:46:15Guest:That's great.

00:46:16Guest:Thank you.

00:46:17Guest:He was funny, man.

00:46:19Guest:I don't know what happened to him.

00:46:20Guest:You know what he told me?

00:46:21Guest:He said, comedy is a young man's game.

00:46:24Guest:I was like, oh my God, that's a lot of pot.

00:46:27Guest:That's a lot of pot and fear and confusion.

00:46:31Guest:I mean, I get confused about my career, but she helps me, Tracy, my manager, I don't know what, helps me to see.

00:46:44Marc:that i'm here that it's me and that and i kill what do you think happened like when uh like after you got out of like when you first got uh clean and you got cleaned up and you got out of the life and out of the prostitution all that bullshit i mean what made you do comedy uh that's great um

00:47:10Guest:Well, I couldn't get jobs.

00:47:13Guest:I couldn't get a goddamn thing.

00:47:16Guest:And one day, I had this great sponsor named Kevin.

00:47:21Guest:I met him in an acting class.

00:47:25Guest:And I would act with my back to the audience.

00:47:28Guest:I was so shy.

00:47:29Guest:And we would take long walks.

00:47:33Guest:And he became my friend and then my sponsor when I went into AA.

00:47:38Guest:And one day I walked out and I'd had enough and I just started to imitate.

00:47:42Guest:I'm Seth and I'm an alcoholic.

00:47:45Guest:My name is Ray and I'm an alcoholic.

00:47:46Guest:I love Ray.

00:47:47Guest:Yeah.

00:47:48Marc:Can you do more Ray?

00:47:49Guest:My name's Ray and I'm an alcoholic.

00:47:51Guest:This is New York A, okay?

00:47:54Guest:L.A.

00:47:54Guest:'s different.

00:47:55Guest:My husband walked out on me.

00:47:57Guest:My house is burnt down.

00:47:58Guest:I'm a clutterer, but I don't want to be a Debbie Downer.

00:48:01Guest:Good, good.

00:48:03Guest:Truly.

00:48:05Guest:My name's Ray, and I'm an alcoholic.

00:48:07Guest:My story includes the Marines, the football team, and sex with both my sons.

00:48:12Guest:You know, today, I woke up.

00:48:14Guest:I had a gun in my mouth.

00:48:15Guest:I was beating my wife with the cat, and I was banging my youngest.

00:48:18Guest:Just reaming and pushing and banging and reaming.

00:48:20Guest:Because I'm a man of the sea.

00:48:20Guest:Don't try to change, Ray.

00:48:22Guest:But I realized while banging my youngest, Ray Jr.

00:48:24Guest:III, that Ray don't feel good about Ray.

00:48:27Guest:When Ray's doing this to Ray Jr.

00:48:29Guest:III.

00:48:30Guest:So I called up my sponsor.

00:48:32Guest:God bless him.

00:48:32Guest:I know I need him to stay sober.

00:48:34Guest:I'm nothing but a manipulative lying piece of shit alcoholic.

00:48:37Guest:Alcoholic.

00:48:38Guest:I said, Ray here.

00:48:40Guest:And I'm banging my youngest.

00:48:41Guest:You know, pushing and reaming and reaming because I'm a sausage machine.

00:48:44Guest:I'm reaming and pushing and pushing.

00:48:45Guest:And I realize that Ray don't feel good about Ray when Ray's doing this to Ray Jr.

00:48:50Guest:III.

00:48:51Guest:My sponsor says to me, I never forget because I can't live without him.

00:48:54Guest:I'm nothing without him.

00:48:55Guest:I'm a piece of shit, lying, manipulative, thieving scumbag.

00:48:59Guest:He says, hey, asshole, did you drink today?

00:49:04Guest:I didn't hear nothing about your primary and only problem.

00:49:07Guest:I said, no.

00:49:08Guest:He said, then you're a winner.

00:49:10Guest:Now meet me out in front with a station wagon.

00:49:12Guest:We're going to pick up newcomers and help them.

00:49:15Guest:Took me years to find a punchline.

00:49:17Guest:Took me years.

00:49:19Marc:The newcomer's line?

00:49:20Guest:Yeah, pick up newcomer's.

00:49:21Marc:Yeah.

00:49:22Marc:I remember, Ray, when it was just, you're a winner.

00:49:25Guest:Yeah.

00:49:25Guest:That was the end.

00:49:26Guest:Sometimes you gotta laugh, sometimes you didn't.

00:49:29Marc:Well, the thing about it is, like, you know, your commitment and your surrender to the characters, you know, sometimes people are like, holy fuck.

00:49:36Marc:But then you start to build that following, you know, the cult of Shapiro.

00:49:40Guest:Yeah, and they're really coming out for the shows out here.

00:49:42Marc:They are, right?

00:49:43Marc:Yeah, they are.

00:49:44Marc:Oh, I was going to tell you the thing about Rob.

00:49:46Marc:On the Brendan Burns thing, outside of offending you, I said, yeah, the Shapiros, I know both of them.

00:49:51Marc:They're both crazy.

00:49:52Marc:And then Rob, and I don't say that in a horrible way.

00:49:56Marc:I mean, crazy is not horrible.

00:49:57Marc:Right.

00:49:57Guest:But you're supposed to, as a human being, be a smart guy and understand.

00:50:01Guest:That's just how Mark is.

00:50:03Marc:Right.

00:50:03Guest:But I go, like, well, you're crazy, Mark.

00:50:06Marc:I know.

00:50:06Marc:Right.

00:50:07Marc:But Rob was, like, fucking... He fucking blew a gasket on Facebook.

00:50:12Marc:Oh, shit.

00:50:12Marc:He fucking blew a gasket.

00:50:14Marc:And, like, he started, like, you know, I'm a bull.

00:50:17Marc:I'm a lion.

00:50:18Marc:You're a lamb.

00:50:19Marc:I'm a bull.

00:50:20Marc:You're a lamb.

00:50:20Marc:And then he started, like, you know, just, like, all caps and fucking, like, I don't laugh after my jokes.

00:50:25Marc:I'm a man.

00:50:26Marc:You're a fuck...

00:50:26Marc:Like just like all over my Facebook page.

00:50:29Marc:And, uh, and I wrote to him, I said, Rob, look, I'll, I'll, you know, I, I think you're getting a little, uh, it's a little crazy.

00:50:35Marc:And, uh, I would talk to you anytime.

00:50:37Marc:Cause he was like, you're afraid to talk to me and all this shit.

00:50:40Marc:I'm like, anytime you want to talk, I'll talk.

00:50:42Marc:And then went on for a couple days, and then his Facebook profile was gone.

00:50:47Marc:Really?

00:50:49Guest:It was a while ago.

00:50:50Guest:He sends people that own the small clubs in New York, he sends them emails saying, because if they don't look at them, that he's going to burn their clubs down.

00:50:58Marc:Well, God damn it.

00:50:59Guest:I know.

00:51:00Guest:It used to be funny to me.

00:51:01Guest:Now I'm like, shit, that sucks, man.

00:51:02Guest:You know, he's hurting himself.

00:51:04Marc:But you don't know where he's at?

00:51:06Marc:You don't talk to him?

00:51:06Guest:Mm-mm.

00:51:07Guest:I can't.

00:51:08Guest:Every time I try, it turns into something that I didn't say.

00:51:11Marc:Is he on or off the shit?

00:51:14Guest:I think he's... I don't know.

00:51:16Guest:I couldn't say.

00:51:17Guest:I just know if you're from my family, you need a therapist.

00:51:21Guest:Yeah.

00:51:21Guest:And he won't go.

00:51:23Guest:Like, he's a psychopath, and I'm an ex-sociopath.

00:51:28Guest:Yeah.

00:51:28Guest:is what I used to say, because he gets violent, but he's funny.

00:51:34Marc:Yeah, he's funny.

00:51:35Marc:You're both funny.

00:51:36Marc:You want to read a little from the book?

00:51:39Guest:Uh, yeah.

00:51:41Guest:Parking Lot Love.

00:51:43Guest:This one I didn't ever have a place to stay.

00:51:47Guest:Parking lot love with the loveliness-filled sweet mean-ass ramblings of your DJ Tenderheart, where the world has a face like Harrison Ford butt-fucking the religion-filled neurotic need to die delusionally control-pushing lies out of Mel Gibson's eyes.

00:52:04Guest:I create, open, and reveal the parallel universe of simple nighttime romance.

00:52:11Guest:You can't be pretentious when she's about to leave you in a parking lot for you to be judge, jury, and witness of your own.

00:52:18Guest:MC Tenderheart, where the newspaper's scream and shout, and the water's getting dirty, and the garbage is waiting to get fucked and dumped.

00:52:25Guest:And pure as trash rolls to meet what lies inside the dark winds of you, the night.

00:52:31Guest:For you are the night's secrets.

00:52:33Guest:And you are finally at the end of your own night.

00:52:36Guest:For the secrets you finally deem non-withholdable have become uncontrollably mad at you.

00:52:44Guest:Redeem your lotto.

00:52:47Guest:Eat your quick dog.

00:52:48Guest:And there she is.

00:52:49Guest:Ah, and now was.

00:52:52Guest:by the slurpee machine and the tar top once again kisses the bottoms of your boots and ignored by you it tried to tell you the dirt on your boots are sweet succulent memories you ignored the detail of me your never-ending road to never finding her

00:53:12Guest:"'Go home to sleep alone again.

00:53:15Guest:"'Someday when you had enough nothing, "'as you pick yourself up off the parking lot's shining blue-black flattop, "'you will say, "'Oh, oh, the light of the moon "'bounces off the tar "'and waits for me to live with love that only lives "'between moon and street.'"

00:53:36Guest:I interfered with all my fear and regret, never having said, you are my parking lot love.

00:53:45Guest:It's pretty.

00:53:45Marc:Yeah, it's great.

00:53:47Guest:It's weird in the beginning, because you could put it down right there and be like, what's this hackneyed fucking Mel Gibson shit?

00:53:52Guest:But then it surprised you, becomes a love poem.

00:53:55Guest:It was about a girl.

00:53:56Marc:Yeah.

00:53:57Marc:You always had great rhythm, good words.

00:54:01Marc:It's nice to see it on paper.

00:54:02Marc:I mean, how'd she pull all this shit together?

00:54:05Marc:I don't know.

00:54:07Marc:Tracy, what'd you do?

00:54:09Marc:Collect all these pieces of paper from the floor?

00:54:11Guest:Oh, she has a good story.

00:54:12Marc:You want to get on the mic?

00:54:13Marc:Hold on.

00:54:15Guest:Tracy DeMarzo, my manager.

00:54:19Guest:Oh, we don't have sex.

00:54:20Marc:Not anymore?

00:54:22Guest:Not anymore.

00:54:24Guest:For a long time.

00:54:26Guest:For a long time.

00:54:27Guest:Let me make sure that's up.

00:54:28Guest:Can you talk in there?

00:54:29Guest:Sure.

00:54:29Guest:Oh, good.

00:54:30Guest:This is weird.

00:54:31Guest:Don't you feel like there's a deeper vibe we're about to hit?

00:54:35Guest:Sure, man.

00:54:35Guest:But this is good.

00:54:36Guest:This is a good story.

00:54:37Guest:We haven't had sex since 2009.

00:54:40Guest:It's purely management now.

00:54:41Guest:Stick to the question.

00:54:44Guest:It says it in the intro.

00:54:45Guest:I threw him out of our house for five years.

00:54:50Guest:And every time I did, I collected his writings.

00:54:53Guest:I never threw out his stuff.

00:54:55Guest:I threw him out, but I kept everything.

00:54:58Guest:And I started to go through it.

00:55:00Guest:And I just said, this guy writes a lot.

00:55:03Guest:And I broke it down into chapters 2005, 2006, 2007.

00:55:06Guest:I selected pieces.

00:55:09Guest:And I put it together.

00:55:10Guest:What was really difficult was that everything was in caps, no punctuation, spelt incorrectly.

00:55:15Guest:So when you're reading the book, you'll see that there are lots of typos.

00:55:20Guest:I could only do so much.

00:55:23Guest:I could only do so much interpretation.

00:55:25Guest:But I put it together.

00:55:26Guest:It's his.

00:55:27Guest:It's all his stuff.

00:55:28Guest:Yeah.

00:55:28Guest:She saved, like, suitcases.

00:55:31Guest:I have suitcases, suitcases.

00:55:32Guest:I'll always be thrown out.

00:55:33Guest:I have some argument with her.

00:55:34Guest:She'd act like a mob girl.

00:55:36Guest:Yeah.

00:55:37Guest:She one time kept my passport and belt.

00:55:40Guest:Yeah.

00:55:40Guest:So I ran down the street pulling my pants up.

00:55:43Guest:I couldn't get my passport.

00:55:45Guest:I was about to go overseas.

00:55:47Guest:So I said, I go, look, you're running around like a homeless guy.

00:55:50Guest:You can't keep your pants up.

00:55:52Guest:And now you can't make any money.

00:55:54Guest:Like, she won.

00:55:56Guest:I walk by the window, it's raining out, and she's sipping tea in a silhouette formation.

00:56:03Guest:With a smile.

00:56:05Guest:You want to talk about fights.

00:56:06Guest:I mean, Rick's massive fights were with me.

00:56:10Guest:Pull the mic into your face.

00:56:12Guest:We fought more than anything.

00:56:14Guest:Yeah.

00:56:15Guest:But it didn't matter.

00:56:16Guest:I didn't know I couldn't fight until I met her.

00:56:18Guest:It didn't matter.

00:56:18Guest:I knew.

00:56:20Guest:I knew that there was product.

00:56:21Guest:I knew that there was a genius behind all of this.

00:56:24Marc:Well, you look a lot healthier and better than when you were fucking.

00:56:27Marc:Yeah.

00:56:28Guest:Stress.

00:56:29Guest:Stress of work.

00:56:30Guest:You know, the relationship.

00:56:31Guest:Now I'm getting laid by someone else, so it's much healthier.

00:56:34Marc:Oh, my God.

00:56:35Guest:But stress is... Tony Clift.

00:56:38Marc:Oh, he's amazing.

00:56:40Marc:No, you can't be fucking Tony Clift.

00:56:42Guest:I try to keep it all in the same genre.

00:56:44Marc:Oh, my God.

00:56:45Marc:Oh, God.

00:56:45Marc:Well, that's lovely that she did that for you, Rick.

00:56:48Marc:Someone had to do it.

00:56:49Guest:Yeah, yeah, someone had to do it.

00:56:51Guest:Yeah, I don't know, man.

00:56:53Guest:No, it deserves to be out.

00:56:55Guest:No, absolutely.

00:56:56Guest:You know, there's a separation.

00:56:58Guest:There's a separation between what a comic can produce on stage and what they write at their homes.

00:57:02Marc:But he's also like something beyond a comic.

00:57:05Marc:Exactly.

00:57:06Marc:You know, he's a phenomenon and, you know, he's a fucking... He's an artist.

00:57:12Marc:Oh, no, there's no doubt about that.

00:57:14Marc:But, I mean, he's an individual voice.

00:57:17Guest:That's nice.

00:57:18Guest:I wanted to hear.

00:57:19Marc:Yeah.

00:57:20Guest:That's nice.

00:57:20Guest:You've always been that.

00:57:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:57:22Guest:You remember when I was performing at the clubs in New York?

00:57:25Guest:I'd perform, grab a pile of notes, and run out of the club.

00:57:29Marc:There was always things flying off of you.

00:57:32Marc:There was pieces of paper.

00:57:33Marc:There were notes.

00:57:33Marc:There were cigarettes.

00:57:34Marc:There was matches.

00:57:35Guest:But that's what I kept.

00:57:36Guest:I kept every one of them.

00:57:37Guest:What I meant was I never stuck around.

00:57:38Guest:I ran because I was embarrassed.

00:57:40Marc:Yeah.

00:57:42Guest:It was in the way.

00:57:43Marc:You were always a flurry of activity, Rick.

00:57:45Marc:There's no doubt.

00:57:47Guest:Toxicity.

00:57:48Marc:Well, I didn't want to put it that way, but if you want to put it that way.

00:57:51Guest:Okay, I'll put it that way.

00:57:52Guest:Toxicity.

00:57:53Guest:Yeah, you were toxic.

00:57:54Guest:I'm very toxic.

00:57:56Marc:You're a very sweet guy.

00:57:57Marc:You know, it's one of those weird things that I just realized something about you that I didn't completely realize, and I think I should have realized.

00:58:07Marc:That I'm contrived?

00:58:09Marc:No, but that, that your primary fight is with yourself and you're so fucking hard on yourself.

00:58:17Marc:So nine times out of 10, when you start a conversation with you, you're in the middle of beating the shit out of yourself.

00:58:24Marc:So when you're like, hey, Rick, you're like, hey, what, what, what, what?

00:58:28Marc:I just interrupted you from you telling yourself you're a piece of shit.

00:58:32Guest:Yeah, I interrupted you from you telling yourself your piece of shit.

00:58:39Guest:Did I interrupt you telling yourself your piece of shit?

00:58:43Guest:I'll come back.

00:58:44Guest:You should write that as a bit.

00:58:47Guest:Some guys you got to tell them like, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I interrupted you telling yourself your piece of shit.

00:58:52Guest:That's great.

00:58:54Guest:That's great.

00:58:56Guest:People get offended.

00:58:57Guest:I was at a table last night.

00:58:58Guest:All these comics, even really cool guys, older guys who do other gigs out here, we're talking about like...

00:59:08Guest:Well, you know, you can get away with offensive material over there, but you can't do offensive material over there.

00:59:15Guest:But I find it offensive.

00:59:16Guest:You know, offensive material can be... And I'm like, what's offensive?

00:59:21Guest:Like, say the goddamn joke.

00:59:24Guest:Like, I'm not... The way they were using it, it was like it didn't match their meal.

00:59:30Guest:They weren't considering what offensive is.

00:59:32Guest:Yeah.

00:59:34Guest:Like, this comic did blackface...

00:59:38Guest:well, you can't do that offensive thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:59:43Guest:And some woman was from Australia there at the table and she goes, Chris did blackface out here and he destroyed it.

00:59:53Guest:And a guy goes to me, well, if it's done right.

00:59:56Guest:And I said, did you just say if blackface is done right?

01:00:00Guest:Okay, when is it right?

01:00:02Guest:And he goes, when you're not making fun of blacks.

01:00:06Guest:I said, so you're telling me that I can't make fun of blacks.

01:00:10Guest:But six other comics will follow you around and say, it's offensive to wear blackface and make fun of blacks.

01:00:18Okay.

01:00:18Guest:I say, that guy Chris just did it and won.

01:00:23Guest:Yeah.

01:00:24Guest:You know, like, be the guy.

01:00:26Guest:Yeah.

01:00:27Guest:Push the envelope.

01:00:29Guest:Well, just snap out of it.

01:00:30Guest:Do what you want to do.

01:00:31Guest:Right.

01:00:32Guest:That's all I mean.

01:00:33Guest:Look, I'm... It's hard sometimes.

01:00:37Marc:No, but you got no choice.

01:00:39Marc:Yeah, it's the way I was built.

01:00:40Marc:So you got a... So you okay with everything?

01:00:42Marc:It's the way I was built.

01:00:43Marc:You okay with Louis and everything?

01:00:45Yeah.

01:00:46Guest:We don't talk.

01:00:48Marc:But you appreciate what he did for you and you're not in a fight with him?

01:00:52Guest:No, I love Louis.

01:00:54Guest:It's not even that I appreciate what he did for me.

01:00:57Guest:I loved working with him all through the years.

01:01:01Marc:Yeah, he's been in a lot of stuff with the Conan stuff and with the brunch and with the short films and then with the Lucky Louis show.

01:01:09Guest:Yeah.

01:01:09Marc:He always had a very real passion for your talent.

01:01:13Marc:Yeah, yeah, he really did.

01:01:15Guest:And he said, when I was done, and then I'll be done with this, he said, when I was done with the audition, he goes, I thought I was going to have to explain to them, see, he did a great job, but he's not crazy, he's not crazy, he's not crazy.

01:01:32Guest:He goes...

01:01:33Guest:You were the only one they said was the most professional.

01:01:37Guest:He goes, that guy came in, did a damn good job and left.

01:01:42Guest:He didn't go like, thank you, everybody.

01:01:44Guest:Or I don't know what they mean by professional.

01:01:46Guest:How are you supposed to act at a fucking audition?

01:01:48Guest:Why not go, how are you doing?

01:01:50Guest:Oh, sorry, oops, I fell.

01:01:52Guest:Diana Ross.

01:01:53Guest:You know what I mean?

01:01:54Guest:How are you supposed to fucking be?

01:01:55Guest:I love getting mad at this shit.

01:01:58Guest:How are you supposed to fucking be in this world where the guys who act like the way they're supposed to act are stealing everything people have?

01:02:05Guest:Everything.

01:02:09Guest:I can't get past it.

01:02:12Guest:And I have a friend on the show who says, your anger will, when you're angry, try to remember.

01:02:19Guest:I said, why do I have to try to remember anything?

01:02:20Guest:Try to remember what the fuck is going on.

01:02:23Guest:That there's puppets dancing crookedly in front of us, like absurdists to make us go like, ow, my eyes hurt.

01:02:30Guest:You know what I mean?

01:02:30Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:32Guest:Fucking, Jesus Christ.

01:02:35Marc:What's the movie?

01:02:36Marc:What's the, Todd, you just, why am I forgetting?

01:02:40Marc:Project X.

01:02:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:02:42Guest:I play Judah Friedlander in The Wrestler.

01:02:45Guest:No, Todd Barry in The Wrestler.

01:02:47Guest:How's the part?

01:02:48Guest:It's a big part?

01:02:48Guest:I play Envy in the comedy movie.

01:02:51Guest:It's good?

01:02:51Guest:Yeah, it's a good part.

01:02:53Guest:It turned out to be good.

01:02:54Guest:It was fun as hell.

01:02:55Guest:I got to play a pothead arsonist in Project X. Whereas my manager wanted me to say it on stage last night at MC to say it, Project X.

01:03:04Guest:With a flamethrower.

01:03:07Guest:Oh, really?

01:03:08Guest:And Project X has made 14-year-old tits no longer off limits.

01:03:16Guest:Are you serious?

01:03:16Guest:It was beautiful.

01:03:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:03:18Guest:That's about time.

01:03:19Guest:Yeah, so you no longer have to use the word niece anymore either.

01:03:23Guest:It was just a perpetuating of the moralism that is tearing our country apart.

01:03:29Marc:What are you going to do if you finally find something?

01:03:32Guest:You know, that's what's great about being around you.

01:03:34Guest:That's what's great.

01:03:35Guest:That's what's great.

01:03:36Guest:I'm going to get weird.

01:03:37Guest:That's what's great.

01:03:40Guest:What?

01:03:40Guest:If I said what I just said, the moralism that's tearing this country apart, every other comic I've ever met in my life would have been like this.

01:03:49Guest:Out here, I mean.

01:03:51Guest:Yeah.

01:03:51Guest:And you're just like, oh, nice of your use of words.

01:03:55Guest:I knew where you were going.

01:03:56Guest:And that was great.

01:03:58Guest:I've known you for 20 years.

01:04:00Guest:No, you're smart.

01:04:01Guest:You're lucky you're smart.

01:04:02Guest:You're lucky you're fucking smart.

01:04:03Marc:I've known you for 20 years.

01:04:05Marc:Well, where were we?

01:04:07Marc:And where were we?

01:04:08Marc:I'm very familiar with the Rick Shapiro oeuvre.

01:04:14Yeah.

01:04:14Guest:I had no.

01:04:15Guest:What does Uber mean?

01:04:16Marc:I don't fucking know.

01:04:17Guest:The Jean de Tom.

01:04:19Marc:Yeah.

01:04:20Marc:The Rick Shapiro fucking thing.

01:04:22Marc:Yeah.

01:04:23Marc:I've been following your work for 20 years.

01:04:25Marc:I know how your brain works.

01:04:27Marc:I'm very on the pulse of the way you think about things.

01:04:31Guest:And I appreciate it.

01:04:32Guest:We don't even hang out.

01:04:33Guest:You know how my brain works.

01:04:34Guest:It's beautiful.

01:04:35Marc:Well, of course I know we've hung out.

01:04:37Marc:We've hung out at different junctures in our history.

01:04:39Marc:I have watched you on stage many times.

01:04:43Marc:I have seen you in many different manifestations of anger and panic and fucking insanity.

01:04:51Marc:I have fucking appreciated you all the time.

01:04:54Marc:So when you say something that is mind-blowing, I expect no less from you.

01:05:01Guest:So I'm not going to say- Oh, that's good.

01:05:04Guest:Expect no less.

01:05:05Guest:I can do what I want.

01:05:05Guest:I can be who I am around you.

01:05:07Marc:Right.

01:05:07Marc:Yeah.

01:05:07Marc:What do you think?

01:05:08Marc:I'm going to sit there and go, holy shit, what did you just say?

01:05:10Marc:Can I write that down so I remember it and put it over my toilet?

01:05:13Marc:What do you think I'm going to fucking do?

01:05:14Guest:What, am I a child?

01:05:16Marc:What, am I going to give you rides?

01:05:18Guest:I got age, but I'll beat it because I'm American.

01:05:26Guest:What am I going to give you rides?

01:05:27Guest:Hey, will you give me some rides?

01:05:28Guest:Sure, where do you need to go?

01:05:31Guest:Wherever you're going.

01:05:31Guest:All right, let's get out of here.

01:05:33Guest:You good?

01:05:34Guest:No, I want to stay on this.

01:05:35Guest:All right.

01:05:36Guest:You're just starting to wake up?

01:05:37Guest:Yeah, yeah, because I saw it.

01:05:39Guest:There started to be a drag, right?

01:05:40Guest:You started to feel drained.

01:05:41Guest:No, I didn't.

01:05:42Guest:Wait, you got a light?

01:05:43Guest:I was trying to give him a light.

01:05:45Guest:Wait, wait, wait.

01:05:47Guest:I was trying to fucking bring it to a close, so I brought the energy up, and now you're eating me like a battery, and all of a sudden you pep up.

01:05:58Marc:Look, look.

01:05:58Marc:What?

01:06:00Marc:Like, who are you?

01:06:01Marc:Oh, Jesus.

01:06:02Marc:How far?

01:06:02Marc:How deep do you want to go?

01:06:04Marc:Deep.

01:06:05Marc:Who am I?

01:06:06Guest:I'm just a frightened filament trying to hold on to some light before someone blows it out.

01:06:12Guest:A frightened filament?

01:06:14Guest:You say that on stage?

01:06:15Guest:No.

01:06:15Guest:Will you?

01:06:16Guest:Okay.

01:06:18Guest:Oh, I got a rap?

01:06:20Guest:Is there a kid outside waiting for his car?

01:06:22Guest:Some genius?

01:06:22Guest:Go tell him the moral line.

01:06:23Guest:I don't even know who's driving me back.

01:06:26Guest:Some fucking guy who tells me he's a comic and keeps his thoughts enclosed in the tiniest part of his brain back here.

01:06:38Guest:You know exactly what I'm talking about.

01:06:40Guest:I do.

01:06:41Guest:But look, you don't understand.

01:06:43Guest:I always know exactly what you're talking about.

01:06:45Guest:Well, I'm going to call you then.

01:06:46Guest:Not a lot.

01:06:47Guest:I know you're busy.

01:06:48Guest:You got a life.

01:06:48Guest:I got one, too.

01:06:49Guest:You got to know something.

01:06:50Guest:I love you.

01:06:51Marc:I've always loved you.

01:06:52Marc:But don't call me.

01:06:53Marc:No, I got a lot of respect for you, Rick.

01:06:55Marc:And I don't like it when we're mad at each other.

01:06:58Marc:I know we don't hang out or anything, but you've been around and in my life for 20 fucking years.

01:07:03Marc:I've had nothing but respect for you.

01:07:05Marc:You scare me sometimes.

01:07:06Marc:I got to protect myself against your bullshit sometimes.

01:07:09Marc:But I got nothing but love for you.

01:07:10Guest:My bullshit was that I adore you.

01:07:12Guest:And I don't have fingers or eyes how to deal with it.

01:07:16Guest:Okay, let's try and do it.

01:07:18Guest:I adore you.

01:07:18Guest:We'll try it.

01:07:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:19Guest:Don't worry, I won't hug you next time.

01:07:21Marc:No, we're going to hug you right now.

01:07:22Guest:Oh, good.

01:07:23Guest:All right.

01:07:23Guest:And thanks for talking to me.

01:07:24Guest:Yeah, thanks for having me, man.

01:07:26Guest:All right.

01:07:32Guest:Okay, that's our show.

01:07:34Marc:Thank you for listening.

01:07:35Marc:I hope that was a unique experience for you.

01:07:38Marc:Go to rickshapiro.tv if you want to help Ricky out.

01:07:41Marc:He could use some help.

01:07:43Marc:Go to wtfpod.com for all your WTF pod needs.

01:07:46Marc:Pick up the Mark and Tom show there.

01:07:48Marc:The link is there.

01:07:49Marc:The link for justcoffee.coop.com.

01:07:52Marc:Wait for it.

01:07:55Marc:Pow!

01:07:56Marc:Look out.

01:07:57Marc:Just shit my pants.

01:07:58Marc:Seriously.

01:07:59Marc:Serious.

01:08:00Marc:Serious this time.

01:08:02Marc:Get the app.

01:08:02Marc:See who's been on the show.

01:08:04Marc:Get on the mailing list.

01:08:05Marc:I'll mail you an email thing every Sunday.

01:08:08Marc:You can do it all at WTFPod.com.

01:08:09Marc:Pick up the new Coop shirt, the Hot Rod shirt.

01:08:12Marc:Do what you gotta do over there.

01:08:14Marc:I will be at Bonnaroo.

01:08:15Marc:Did I mention that?

01:08:17Marc:I'm gonna be at Bonnaroo.com.

01:08:21Marc:All right, that's it.

01:08:23Marc:It's a lot cleaner in here.

01:08:24Marc:Do you like it?

01:08:25Marc:Does it sound cleaner?

01:08:27Marc:Seriously, can you tell that I cleaned the garage by listening?

01:08:32Marc:All right, I'm going to go.

01:08:33Marc:I got to go eat.

01:08:52you