Episode 281 - Paula Poundstone
Guest:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:With Mark Maron.
Marc:all right let's do this what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fucking brooklynites god damn i'm in new york city right now well brooklyn actually uh it's a beautiful day i'm uh looking out a window at the lovely gowanus brooklyn nice and industrial a bit sad but the uh the sun is a tempering the possible industrial sadness
Marc:And also, this beautiful day is tempered by the fact that I'm in a Holiday Inn Express.
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:This is a hotel room monologue, obviously.
Marc:I've left my hotel room briefly to caffeinate.
Marc:I went up the street to grill a coffee, and I don't know what the fuck is going on with that stuff, but I have caffeinated myself into a state of almost paralyzed nausea.
Marc:as i speak to you from this hotel room oh by the way paula poundstone on the show today had a long conversation with her back in the garage but now i'm not in the garage as i said i'm alone in a holiday express in gowanus brooklyn the first day i was here i got off the elevator on my floor and the entire hallway smelled like the inside of a bong
Marc:Not judging anybody, but it's pretty profound when the pot smell in the hallway is so bad that it smelled in my room where literally I think I got a contact buzz just from from walking down the hallway.
Marc:And that's not a relapse.
Marc:That's just a freebie.
Marc:So a lot of you felt a little alienated because I did a special event, WTF, at the Guga Mooga Fest here in Brooklyn.
Marc:I can honestly say with complete confidence, I will not do that to you again.
Marc:I will not alienate the WTF people by being part of a situation where it's really too expensive for you to get in because, quite frankly, I could have used you there.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say on that.
Marc:I'm very happy I don't live here anymore.
Marc:I never thought I would really say that.
Marc:I'm pretty much over New York in general, but I always like coming back.
Marc:But Jesus, I'm having an experience with the things that I used to love about New York now just are horrendous to me.
Marc:I used to think that, like, wow, it's amazing.
Marc:It's an organic living being.
Marc:It's a beast of its own.
Marc:You were just a cell and a larger animal pumping through the arteries of the New York metro system.
Marc:And now I'm just like, oh, my God.
Marc:There's not a moment where I don't have someone else just right there next to me.
Marc:And I've had this feeling before, but boy, man, I was filled with some serious caffeinated hate on the subway, just like I didn't even think my immune system could handle it.
Marc:I used to think like, wow, if I take the subway, at least I'll be exposed to an international array of microbes.
Marc:more than even on a plane, and I just started to get angry and just horrified.
Marc:I cannot, like just walking down the street with absolutely no space whatsoever, I just see this parade of people coming at me with their own problems right up in my space, and I got no boundaries, so that's a lot to handle.
Marc:I can't help these people, and quite honestly, they're psychically raping me as a group.
Marc:I'm being gang-raped psychically every second that I walk down a street in New York.
Marc:Maybe that's my problem.
Marc:Maybe this is not the way to frame it.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But I got off the subway last night at Union Street in Brooklyn, and they were hosing the walls down, and there was just a fine mist of water being just sort of...
Marc:permeating the air this is a mist of what they've been they've been spraying the walls the tile walls of the subway station down do you know what that is letting loose do you know that's just like a fine mist you I was like in the the inside of a tubercular lung
Marc:That's the way I saw it, and I was furious.
Marc:I was frightened that my newly sold boots would not be able to handle the water, and I would slip in what I just thought of as some sort of like amalgamated subway spit.
Marc:That liquid, that foamy liquid that was coming off the tile walls of them cleaning the walls, like what was that?
Marc:What was that soup?
Marc:Horrible.
Marc:It was like the primordial soup of future generations.
Marc:If they just let it sit long enough, some strange beast would slouch out of that in time, probably immune to everything, but very frightening.
Marc:Wow, this was not uplifting.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you, as I say this, I am looking out at a fucking beautiful day.
Marc:What the fuck is wrong with me?
Marc:Why can't I just go out and walk by myself?
Marc:I'm in an industrial part of Brooklyn.
Marc:There's no one around.
Marc:Why can't I find Zen in that?
Marc:If I'm sitting here complaining about the parade of humanity that is assaulting me on a psychic level in New York City, why can't I just appreciate walking around an empty industrial area like some sort of strange, dubious loner with nothing to do, just looking at large spaces and thinking like, wow, I wonder if I could make an apartment out of that.
Marc:Look at that warehouse.
Marc:Hey, what if I just put a bed in there and built a bathroom?
Marc:That would be cool.
Marc:What would I do with the walls?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I'd become a conceptual artist.
Marc:Sure, man.
Marc:Let's build some shit out of found objects.
Marc:And then you just open the doors and say, it's an installation.
Marc:Welcome to my space.
Marc:I've been in Brooklyn too long.
Marc:It's just a never-ending parade of beards, dogs, tattoos, yoga mats, and children.
Marc:Raising a child in Brooklyn, I know, look, some of you are going to get mad at me, but part of your job as a parent, you don't have the kid play in front of the coffee shop.
Marc:You can't just run around chasing a kid so he doesn't go in the street.
Marc:There just seems to be better places to play.
Marc:And don't give your kid a double macchiato with his breakfast.
Marc:Had a long conversation with Sam Lipsight about children, the possibility of having children, the possibility of me having children.
Marc:I told him that, quite frankly, the entire undertaking consumed me with panic.
Marc:Just thinking about having a child consumes me with panic.
Marc:And he said, that's normal.
Marc:That happens.
Marc:And they told me a story about how he got over that fear, which I found endearing and a little bit helpful.
Marc:He said that when he and his wife had their first child, there was that panic.
Marc:You're always checking to see if he's alive.
Marc:Every hour or so, you're just looking in at the baby in the crib to see if he's alive.
Marc:And I'm like, exactly.
Marc:That sounds horrible to me.
Marc:And then he had a moment where she was going in and continually checking.
Marc:And he just thought to himself, well...
Marc:Hey, look, if he dies, he dies.
Marc:There's nothing we can really do about it.
Marc:You're not going to stop it by looking at him.
Marc:So why don't you just sit down and watch some television?
Marc:That was good.
Marc:It's a profound moment.
Marc:I better make sure that he doesn't mind me saying that.
Marc:Paula Poundstone is in the garage here at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:And right away, you say 16 cats.
Guest:We have 16 cats at home, yeah.
Guest:I didn't bring them.
Guest:I didn't bring them.
Marc:Oh, I thought you were going to bring them.
Marc:Mine we're looking forward to.
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Marc:I play date.
Marc:Yeah, I thought you have a vehicle, especially.
Marc:16, though.
Marc:I mean, how does it happen?
Guest:I can tell you exactly how, because a lot of people are very judgmental about the fact that I have 16 cats.
Guest:A lot of people do that.
Guest:How did you get 16 cats?
Guest:And I can tell you exactly how, which is I had 15 and I got one more.
Guest:When people ask me that question, I always feel it must be a Santa Monica education working.
Marc:No.
Marc:I have cats, and I get judged for it as well, but I don't have 16, but I can see how it could happen.
Marc:I was just wondering, did you have a cat explosion, or was it a collection?
Guest:No, it really was quite gradual, honestly.
Marc:You start with one, and then you're all of a sudden... But your life isn't unmanageable.
Marc:You're committed to it.
Guest:No, I'm very committed.
Guest:I actually have a callus on my hand from Sifting Litter Boxes.
Guest:No, I take very good care of them.
Guest:The litter callus.
Marc:I heard that.
Marc:That's in the Cat Lady Handbook.
Marc:Be careful with litter calluses.
Guest:Yeah, litter calluses.
Guest:It comes, you know, I'll tell you something.
Guest:When we shake hands, me and other cat owners, there's a, you know, you do a quick touch just on the index finger.
Marc:And they know how deep you're in.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Oh, you're a pro.
Marc:You're the real deal.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:Then you shift kind of how you talk to the person, you know what I mean?
Marc:Someone gave me that.
Marc:Did you ever see that thing?
Marc:You see that action figure, Crazy Cat Lady action figure?
Guest:No.
Marc:It's right up on top there.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Oh, I do see.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Oh, that is too funny.
Guest:The Crazy Cat Lady action figure.
Guest:Okay, well, I am really comforted by the fact that she looks nothing like me.
Guest:yeah there's only five you're right the great no there's six um how crazy is she really yeah yeah the uh i'm in the deluxe set yeah i'm like no i think you can add cats you know i don't know i've never seen it before what you do is you add cats in the you can add cats and then also her head opens up and you pull out parts of brain so with each cat that you add you subtract some brain it's really a very progressive toy
Marc:Did you read this horrible article about the cat parasite thing in the brain?
Marc:Do you know about that?
Guest:Oh, somebody mentioned it to me.
Guest:It comes from the kitty litter or something?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You're not concerned with it, right?
Guest:I don't think I am.
Guest:I don't think I am.
Guest:I'm careful.
Guest:I wash my hands and we use soap.
Guest:I do think that I'm as careful as one could be.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:You've got to be careful with that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, I am.
Guest:Cat poop.
Guest:Very dangerous.
Guest:That's what they say.
Marc:But does your house smell like tea?
Guest:Could you rob a bank with it?
Guest:That's what I want to know.
Guest:Could you really just hold up a little bit of cat feces and say, you know what, give me all your money and not the exploding ink kind of you?
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:But I mean, they say that that parasite could make you possibly rob a bank.
Marc:That's the thing that they, it freaked me out.
Marc:Not much because I'd heard about before, but this Toxoplasma Gandhi virus.
Marc:I'm not going to do this.
Guest:They put Gandhi's name into a virus?
Guest:That's not right.
Marc:Well, it could be right, but not in this particular case.
Marc:I mean, a Gandhi virus that actually promoted and helped world peace would be fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wouldn't that be fine?
Guest:Yeah, but that's terrible.
Marc:Where's the good virus?
Marc:The virus that makes everybody love each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that, we don't have that yet.
Marc:No, no, they're working on it.
Guest:So they say that it can make you nutty and then you might rob a bank.
Guest:Well, they say that- Because I love the idea that I do have a defense to anything that I do at this point.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:I'm crazy because it's the cat poop.
Marc:The cat poop did this to me.
Marc:I feel really good about it.
Marc:Well, I'll be honest with you.
Marc:I actually saw you very early on in my, I'm gonna try to place this memory, because I started in Boston doing comedy for the most part.
Marc:I started there.
Marc:I started in a few places, but I was in Boston.
Guest:Did you do the ding-ho?
Marc:once or twice as an open miker, but it was towards the end of it.
Marc:But when I saw you, it was like a return to Boston.
Marc:It was like a heroic return.
Marc:It was at the Paradise.
Marc:And I think it was the first time you'd been back since you bolted to leave.
Marc:The reason I remember it is not only were you hilarious, a very original voice in comedy, Paula Poundstone is, but you were delivered a case of ho-hos
Guest:Oh, that would have been ding-dongs.
Guest:Ding-dongs.
Guest:Not ding-dongs.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:Well, you've forgotten.
Guest:My tongue should just burn.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Ring-dings.
Marc:Ring-dings.
Guest:Oh, forgive me.
Guest:Please forgive me.
Marc:The ring-dings were very important early on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were synonymous with ring-dings.
Guest:I still love ring-dings.
Guest:My daughter and I, I was just in Boston last weekend.
Guest:I was at the Wilbur Theater, and my daughter and I stayed in a hotel where there was a vending machine, and they had the two-pack of ring-dings.
Marc:And you were like, I'm home.
Guest:I was overjoyed.
Guest:And my daughter said, she's the kind of kid that looks at the label, which I just think is in the way.
Guest:But she goes, Mom, there's saturated fat.
Guest:And I said, yeah.
Marc:And?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Give them to me.
Guest:That's why you shouldn't eat them.
Guest:Give them to me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But do you remember doing that show?
Marc:Would that have been the first time you'd been back?
Marc:Probably 19... Possibly not.
Guest:I feel like I was in college.
Guest:I still do shows there in the same way.
Guest:I do it like those people who keep saying they're retiring and they keep doing more shows.
Guest:I had probably a good 50 triumphant return shows.
Guest:Oh, good for you.
Guest:I really dragged it out.
Marc:As long as they maintained the triumphant part.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But now, oh, Stephen Wright was in here, too.
Marc:So he would have been part of your group, right?
Guest:He was.
Guest:He just came to my show at the Wilbur.
Guest:It was great seeing him.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:He's nutty as a fruitcake.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we have the greatest time together.
Marc:Well, you guys were, I think, somewhere in the sense that you were kind of unique in how you delivered things.
Marc:I mean, you were anomalies.
Guest:You're exactly right.
Guest:I mean, Steve weathered that storm better than I did, which is why I left, I guess.
Guest:But it was a very tough...
Guest:setting um the the the guys that were very very popular had a had kind of a similar style and i think it's because the audience came from the same place the audience were largely that you know fans of lenny clark right and they were guys he grew up with right they all had these kinds of you know he actually knew everybody in south boston i think
Guest:He actually did.
Guest:He really did.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:He was sort of the unofficial mayor of Cambridge anyways, and not elite Cambridge, not MIT, Harvard Cambridge, but the local Cambridge.
Guest:And so, yeah, and that was a difficult crowd for me to play to back then.
Guest:You know, I did it, but it wasn't... When did you start?
Guest:Okay, can you curse on the... Yeah, of course, of course.
Guest:I will tell you that one night during one of my many triumphant returns, I was doing an open mic night, and I followed, well, you know,
Guest:I'll tell you, the open mic night at the Ding Ho was a joy.
Guest:It was so much fun to do.
Guest:I miss those.
Guest:Those open mic nights were just hot.
Guest:And San Francisco, too.
Guest:Those were the greatest nights.
Guest:The weekend nights were good.
Guest:For example, I used to host the open mic night frequently at the other cafe in San Francisco, which was a great venue.
Right.
Guest:And that's really how I learned to do my job.
Guest:That's really where you ran out of material.
Guest:When you were hosting, there were sometimes – the premise of that, podcast listeners, the premise of that was that anybody that wanted to could go up for five minutes and tell their jokes.
Marc:There might be some waiting or a list or someone in charge or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There was a tremendous amount of waiting back then.
Guest:We're talking like early 80s.
Guest:And, yeah, I mean, we'd go.
Guest:The show might start at like 8 o'clock and go until 1.30.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And as the emcee, you know, your job was supposedly to keep the crowd, you know, like so if somebody went on that was kind of awful, you had to kind of get the crowd back.
Marc:And also, wasn't there that begging come like 1230?
Marc:Like, no, no, no, we've only got four more.
Marc:There's only four more.
Guest:Well, I was never a big beggar.
Guest:I mean, I always felt like let the chips fall where they may.
Guest:I mean, I have, you know, I've performed to two people before.
Guest:And by the way, I had a great time doing it.
Guest:Yeah, how could that be bad?
Guest:You know, it's the...
Marc:Once you shift and realize, we're just going to talk.
Marc:It could be the best night ever.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You're right, though.
Guest:The shift is the key thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You have to go from feeling like, well, what a pathetic experience to, what can I do with this?
Guest:This is going to be kind of some fun.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, especially if you're standing, you know, watching an audience diminish as the evening goes on.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's when you make a shift.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You got to make the shift from like, oh, this is going to fucking suck to like, you know, they seem nice and they're holding.
Marc:You don't want to get up there and alienate the only two people that want to stay the whole show.
Guest:Precisely.
Guest:Which, by the way, is another lesson that I learned just in that process.
Guest:I mean, I watched so many people go on and be angry with the handful of people that stayed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I thought, well, that's not the right dynamic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:These are your friends.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:These are the good people.
Guest:I mean, the people who left, by the way, may have been good people, too.
Guest:They may have just had jobs in the morning or children at home.
Marc:Well, let's talk about the Ding Ho because I've only had a couple of people on that really were part of that because it was a really important venue in Boston.
Marc:It was the bar of a Chinese restaurant in Cambridge.
Marc:It was.
Marc:And it was notorious because all of Boston comedy, it was sort of the tide pool.
Marc:It was like where everything started to come out of.
Marc:Like Lenny used to host the open mics there.
Marc:Jimmy Tingle was bartender there.
Marc:Stephen Wright got his Tonight Show break there.
Marc:Mike Donovan was so good.
Marc:You got to listen to that show.
Guest:Mike Donovan is fantastic.
Guest:Such a sweetheart.
Guest:He's the nicest guy in the world and a genius as a comic.
Guest:He really is.
Guest:Just a genius.
Marc:So where did you come from in New England?
Guest:I was from Sudbury, Massachusetts, which is a small, dull, colonial town.
Guest:And you grew up there?
Marc:Is that where you're from originally?
Guest:I was born in Alabama, but I only lived there for a month before I'd already done everything there was to do.
Marc:How old were you when you left Alabama?
Guest:A month.
Guest:My father was actually in Sudbury getting his job on the night that I was born.
Guest:What was his racket?
Guest:He worked at Raytheon, which was electronics.
Marc:Oh, big employers in the New England area.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so he did that, which is why we moved from the South.
Guest:And I consider myself the, what's that word?
Guest:Beneficiary, I think is the right word, of that move.
Guest:Are you ever in a sibling?
Guest:Because I love Massachusetts.
Guest:I do have a brother and two sisters.
Marc:Older?
Guest:All older, yeah.
Guest:I was younger.
Marc:So did any of them retain any of their southerness or were they old enough or did you all just become regionalized by the New England tone?
Guest:No, I think we were largely regionalized.
Guest:You know, my mother still has an accent to the best of my knowledge, but also... No talking to mom?
Guest:Not so much.
Guest:The funny thing about Sudbury is you can live there and have a New England accent or you can live there and not have a New England accent.
Marc:They give you the option when you check in?
Guest:It's kind of like a tornado.
Guest:It hits some homes really hard and others, you're just on the news talking about how lucky you are.
Guest:You didn't talk like that?
Guest:I tend to pick up a little bit when I go back to visit.
Guest:I can hear a little bit, sure.
Guest:Well, it's more from imitating them, like when I'll talk to somebody in the crowd.
Guest:It's contagious.
Guest:I talked to somebody in the crowd at Wilbur the other night who told me that they lived in, no, they worked in Chelmsford, but they commuted from Bill Ricker.
Marc:Bilirica.
Guest:Bilirica, which is so funny because both of those names have significant R's in them, which is just pointless.
Marc:Bilirica.
Guest:Bilirica.
Marc:I haven't heard that in a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That wasn't that far away from Cambridge, right, Bilirica?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, Massachusetts is a small state.
Guest:Nothing's that far away from anything.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I remember there was a rock club there.
Marc:Something bad happened in Bilirica.
Marc:Maybe it was just a gig I did.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:I didn't read about that.
Marc:So you started doing open mics at Ding Ho?
Guest:I think I started with the Comedy Connection, which was in the basement of the Charles Playhouse at the time, which is also the place where I saw One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with my parents, which was just awkward.
Guest:Is that what did it?
Guest:Oh, you know, those theaters, for that matter, where was I just?
Guest:What did I tell you?
Guest:The Wilbur?
Guest:Oh, yeah, that was beautiful.
Guest:I was just there, too.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:The Wilbur Theater used to have plays and things.
Guest:So when I was in high school, I went with one of my high school teachers took me to see Equus at the Wilbur.
Guest:So I was sitting beside my high school teacher while there were naked people on stage.
Guest:And I loved this teacher, by the way.
Guest:I mean, if I were going to see naked people on stage with any teacher, I would have chosen her.
Guest:No, one other student.
Marc:They did stuff like that back then.
Guest:It was great.
Marc:They took the interested students out for special evenings.
Guest:They did.
Guest:We were very social together back then.
Guest:Nowadays, that sort of thing would never happen.
Marc:You can barely get them.
Marc:I hear public school education is not in the best state
Guest:Well, certainly the one for my children.
Guest:I swear to you, I asked my oldest daughter, who is a graduate of Santa Monica High School, I asked her to do something for me the other day that required fractions, and I swear I'm not making this up.
Guest:And she's not a stupid kid, but she couldn't do it.
Guest:And so I spent the rest of the night laboring over fraction problems with her, and at one point I stumbled from the room and...
Guest:tweeted therapeutically that I was helping my daughter with fractions.
Guest:And somebody tweeted back to me.
Guest:They said, well, they didn't use fractions in their adult life, like as if I were burdening my daughter with a skill that was unnecessary.
Guest:And I tweeted back to the guy.
Guest:So we're working on halves, which I think she might need for the event of a messy divorce.
Guest:I think there are some preparing.
Marc:Well, that's that old weird, stupid adage of like, you know, you never use algebra.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when you learn it, it trains your brain to do something that it's not so much about practical application as much as it is about thinking.
Guest:That's what I'm told.
Guest:I'm never quite sure what we need and what we don't need.
Guest:I really don't.
Guest:I mean, I should make a list.
Guest:I should be making a daily list and go, what was missing here for me?
Guest:They always do say, like, I'm looking into sending my son to an alternative school because he's about to go to high school.
Guest:And I'm just really concerned that the same thing that happened to her is going to happen to him.
Guest:And so I'm reading the website of this school the other day, and it says that their mission is to teach kids to think.
Guest:And, you know, okay, I support that mission.
Guest:I'm not sure how, you know, I mean, I was hoping to do that as well, and so far it just ain't taken.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm not sure, you know, what you do to.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So, you know, OK, I hear the mission, but tell me exactly what it is you do to get that thinking going on.
Marc:Do you have some sort of structure to the thinking teaching?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:A syllabus of some kind or is it vague?
Guest:Yeah, because I think we were all hoping.
Guest:It's like when politicians make these speeches about how they're going to bring the economy back.
Guest:That's wonderful.
Guest:I think that we, the Green Party, the Wacky Party, the Independents, the Republicans, I think we all share that goal.
Guest:The question is, what exactly were you going to do to bring that about?
Marc:Do you have a plan of any kind?
Guest:Yeah, that could be good.
Marc:I said it confidently.
Marc:Why do I need a plan?
Guest:Didn't you believe me in that moment?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The problem is you just don't have the faith.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I listen to public radio a lot.
Guest:Well, you're on it.
Guest:You're on it a lot.
Guest:Well, I'm not listening, hoping to be on.
Guest:I was listening before I was on it because I trust their news as far as one can trust the news.
Guest:But in a given day, you might hear some sort of report from maybe four different economists.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They don't all necessarily say the exact same thing, but I do think I hear a consistent refrain of that there are cycles.
Marc:Sure, cycles and there are problems.
Guest:Which would indicate, by the way, that it has nothing to do with the sitting president.
Marc:Right, absolutely.
Guest:Good times or bad.
Marc:I like the bleak ones.
Marc:Who's the guy with the Italian name that they always go to?
Marc:The economist who's sort of like, oh, it's never coming back.
Marc:We're in trouble.
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Marc:Oh, you would know.
Marc:He's got to be in my house somewhere.
Marc:Yeah, he's on CNN a lot.
Marc:I feel bad at him.
Guest:It could be my assistant.
Marc:The negative assistant.
Guest:I have a cast of characters that I work with.
Guest:I have an agent who doesn't like to talk on the phone and a shy publicist.
Marc:A shy publicist.
Guest:What are the odds of that?
Guest:That's not good.
Guest:I have a shy publicist.
Marc:Can you get me that magazine?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm nervous.
Marc:I was going to call, but- I didn't want to push.
Marc:Yeah, you think I was imposing?
Guest:I hear a lot of that.
Guest:Yeah, and my manager, she keeps moving further and further away.
Guest:She'd like to live on a farm.
Guest:Who's your manager?
Guest:Bonnie Burns, actually, and she's fantastic.
Marc:She represents a couple comics, no?
Marc:Or just you?
Guest:I think just me.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know, she does a brilliant thing, which is that any other clients that she has, and I do think she has a couple others, and I don't even know what they're comics.
Marc:Yeah, you don't want to know who the other clients are.
Guest:She doesn't talk to me about them.
Marc:Yeah, no, that's probably the best.
Guest:It is the best.
Marc:That's sort of an unspoken rule.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I had a manager that talked about the other clients a lot, and it felt like, why are you hitting me with other people's success?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Stop beating me up.
Guest:Yeah, my publicist used to always tell me about- Oh, so-and-so just did this.
Marc:I'm like, oh, God.
Guest:Yeah, and he did it with puppets.
Guest:So I'm like, you know what?
Marc:She's only a publicist to tell other clients how good someone else is doing.
Marc:I'm working for him right now and telling you how great he is.
Marc:That's some good publicity.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So let's go back to Boston because- Is there a drop switch here?
Marc:What do you want?
Guest:To cough?
Marc:No, you can just- I'll cut it out.
Guest:Okay, thank you.
Guest:I cough a lot.
Guest:You may have a lot of cutting to do.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:It's no problem.
Guest:I have terrible allergies.
Marc:Do you really?
Marc:Not cats.
Guest:I swear to you, I actually went to an allergist.
Guest:I've been coughing for easily 12 solid years.
Guest:And people are always going, have you seen a doctor?
Guest:Have you seen a doctor?
Guest:And if it were something degenerative, I would be dead by now.
Guest:So I didn't really need to see a doctor.
Marc:It's always good to wait that kind of stuff out to see if actually it takes.
Guest:No, but I could tell.
Guest:I can tell cleaning products, any kind of lotion, anything that's sent to it sends me crazy.
Guest:So I could just tell that it was an allergy.
Guest:So I didn't want to go to an allergist because I went to one when I was a kid and it didn't really help.
Guest:And so I thought, well, but then it just went on for so long.
Guest:So I thought, okay, well, maybe the science has changed.
Guest:Maybe they've improved.
Guest:Maybe there's more they can do and I'm missing.
Guest:And it interrupts my life.
Guest:So I thought, okay.
Guest:So I go, I paid like, I think, you know, $300 to talk to a woman that I swear to you actually had the nerve to say to me, she asked if I had pets.
Guest:I said, yes, I have 16 cats.
Guest:And she said, well, it could be cats.
Guest:Like, am I an idiot?
Guest:And did I come here for like a problem in my head?
Guest:No.
Guest:If I were allergic to cats, I would have some sense of that by now.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I'm not a moron.
Marc:Waking up, not being able to breathe every day.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So they do the little stupid scratch test thing and she comes up with, you know, oh, it's dust mites.
Guest:Dust mites.
Guest:If you're allergic to dust mites, and my guess is everyone is, it doesn't sound like a good thing to be around, then, you know, pretty much- That's it.
Marc:You're going to cough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Get some Kleenex.
Guest:You're going to cough a lot.
Guest:Make sure that, you know, you turn your head because people get upset and yeah, you're not going to heal from the dust mite allergy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't have them, but I know people that have them.
Marc:Some are worse than others.
Marc:But yeah, those ones that are so general, there's no... Live with it.
Guest:If I were allergic to money, I would be better off because I now have less, having come seen this woman.
Guest:She also handed me a catalog.
Guest:I swear to you, this is true.
Guest:She comes in and she hands me a catalog of things that I can purchase to help my allergies.
Marc:Like what?
Guest:Like a humidifier.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And like some blankets that are woven so tightly that the dust mites can only knock but not get in.
Marc:Doesn't that piss you off though?
Marc:Because I had that happen at a dentist where you realize that they're hustlers as well and they're sort of hucksters.
Marc:I go to this dentist and they're trying to push me on a toothbrush for
Marc:a brand of toothbrush I've never heard of.
Marc:It looked like it was manufactured in a small factory, and they're sitting here telling me that I should really buy it because it's better than the one that every dentist in the world says is good.
Marc:They're like, this is better than Sonicare.
Marc:I'm like, why haven't I ever heard of it?
Marc:Well, you know, we manufacture it.
Marc:I'm like, oh, so you made up this thing.
Guest:Right, absolutely.
Guest:It's ridiculous.
Guest:There's no question that that is a fact.
Guest:And, by the way, when you take your kids for orthodontia,
Guest:Mine didn't work.
Guest:The level of orthodontia that your child requires is based, and they've done studies, purely on how many of the orthodontist's children are going to college.
Guest:And whether or not they have a back deck.
Marc:Every orthodontist office has a little thing, like the column of what I need versus my patients.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:How screwed up your kid's teeth are.
Guest:So, for example, you never want to go to an orthodontist with your kid in the early spring because that's when the construction on a nice deck would begin.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you want to steer.
Marc:Wait that kid.
Marc:Wait it out till winter and a helpful year.
Guest:It's better to go after the college admissions.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Of their kids.
Marc:So you should do a lot of research on your orthodontist before.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:See how many kids they have, how old they are, how old their house is, whether or not they have central air and whether they are in the deck area.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And what kind of personal debt they may have.
Marc:sure if there's any problems that that's a very interesting idea to actually do personal uh what would you call it research reports on people you're you're going to see i'm not sure that it makes sense vets don't work much the same way dude i don't even go to i you know unless my cat is is really ill it's such a racket because they're playing off your anthropomorphizing sensitivities
Guest:No, absolutely.
Guest:I swear, I have visited, because we do have a lot of animals, I do occasionally go to the vet, but I don't keep taking the same one because if I have a cat that is somehow, their number's up.
Marc:Have you had to do that a lot?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I've had... A lot of cats.
Guest:There's a beginning and a middle and an end.
Guest:And that is for... Americans don't like that idea at all.
Guest:So I go sometimes.
Guest:There's a protocol when you go to the vet.
Guest:You always look into the carrier of the other people in the waiting room.
Guest:It's just polite.
Guest:And you always say, isn't that beautiful?
Guest:Even if you can't really recognize what it is, you just do that.
Marc:Or you do one of these, oh...
Marc:Yeah, they love that.
Guest:They love that.
Guest:That's like scratching the neck of the owner.
Guest:And so I noticed at one point it was the same lady with the same animal over and over again.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:I think she has problems.
Guest:And I think Fluffy was dead.
Guest:I think.
Guest:It had like, you know, they replaced the back legs with wheels.
Guest:And then one of the front legs was like with a coat hanger.
Guest:I think they just did like, yeah.
Guest:And they were replacing the foot with like carpet scraps by this time.
Guest:And then she had a spray bottle that she would moisten Fluffy's nose with.
Guest:And I just, I don't want to be the one to say it, but I do think it's time for Fluffy's nose.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, clearly the vet wasn't saying it either.
Guest:No, the vet has no reason to say it.
Marc:Well, that's what scares me because I've gone in because I got the three cats and one time and I'll never do it again.
Marc:I just decided that monkey, he didn't look right.
Marc:He didn't.
Marc:The energy wasn't right.
Marc:And I bring this cat in and I didn't really realize it until that moment where, you know, your own delusion is burst because I'm like the guy's like, well, what's the matter with him?
Marc:I'm like, he just seems a little, you know, under the weather.
Marc:And the guy seemed fine to me.
Marc:And I had that moment where I realized, I'm projecting onto this cat.
Marc:The cat's fine.
Marc:He was probably just tired or whatever.
Marc:And it was a real realization, like, I'm one of those people.
Marc:I've got to stop myself from being one of those people.
Guest:Oh, well, we're all...
Guest:with those people we're all those people we absolutely are i must say i took my cat matilda in she might have been the last cat that i took her in because um she she just one day i had this big medicine ball uh you know like an exercise ball and uh i didn't use it a lot by the way um but it was gray and kind of speckled and it was in the living room and matilda was right beside it and she was bathing
Guest:yeah she couldn't even reach like her own parts because she is so massive right she is so fat and i realized like she she was kind of unclean because she hadn't really been taking care of herself the way she needed to i look over the ball and her it looked like a match set i swear to you she was enormous and i went oh my god you know she must have like some sort of a growth or something like you know so i i i say to my daughter i go you know what i
Guest:I think we got to go to the vet right now.
Guest:And I run out to the garage and I grab a cat carrier and I come back in the house and I take Matilda, who obviously didn't want to get in the character, into the crate that is.
Guest:So I put the crate on its end so that the opening is up top.
Guest:And I decide to make gravity my friend and drop the cat down into it.
Guest:I swear to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was too rotund to fit through the hole.
Guest:So then I yelled to my daughter.
Guest:I go, I got to go get the large carrier.
Guest:And I run back out and I come back in.
Guest:Bad news.
Guest:That was the large carrier.
Guest:So we had to just carry her in our arms to the vet.
Guest:We get there and the guy's like, yeah, she's just fat.
Guest:She's really fat.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, I guess so.
Guest:And I really was convinced that she had some sort of glandular problem.
Guest:But I happen to have, now I really do sound like a nutty cat lady, but
Guest:I swear I'm not.
Guest:I happen to have a 24-hour webcam that focuses on my cat's food and water bowls.
Guest:And, you know, sometimes I keep it when I'm on the road, when I'm in a hotel, you know.
Marc:Oh, yeah, that's not any indication that you're a cat person, a crazy cat person, that you're bringing a traveling webcam of your cat's bowls.
Guest:Okay, but it's available to everyone to view.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:It's available at paulbrownstone.com.
Guest:Do you need to check now or do you want me to check?
Guest:No, you check later.
Guest:But I will tell you that it turns out the Matilda's at the bowl a lot.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's not a problem of nature.
Marc:I had a fat cat, and she's gone.
Marc:My ex-wife took that one.
Marc:But I had a slight, you know, I was judgmental.
Marc:I resented that cat because I didn't feel like it had the self-respect of the other cats who clearly kept in shape.
Marc:I projected that much onto the fat cat.
Marc:I really had a problem with the fact that she didn't say, like, you know, why doesn't that cat take care of itself?
Marc:Look at it.
Marc:How can it, you know, it's getting fatter.
Guest:And you felt that because you're incredibly fit.
Marc:I've got eating problems.
Guest:Oh, so this is the new Marc Maron?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It's just like I'm obsessed with food.
Marc:And I'm obsessed with my mother was very thin.
Marc:And it was very important to her.
Marc:And she kind of pushed that into my being.
Marc:So I'm hyper aware.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'm crazy.
Marc:I have food issues.
Guest:I didn't know.
Marc:How would you?
Guest:You don't look like you have food issues.
Guest:No, it's all mental.
Guest:You just look like a regular guy.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:I'm glad.
Marc:I feel better.
Guest:I got to tell you something.
Guest:My Matilda's twice the size of you.
Guest:I suggest you stay away from the meow mix.
Guest:I'll try.
Marc:I think that what you should do then, if I can give you my system, is shame that cat.
Marc:Shame that cat.
Guest:Is that how you do it?
Marc:Sure, just start saying things like, you're not just overweight.
Marc:You have a problem.
Marc:I would say pull it away from the bowl until it's upset with itself.
Marc:You ever try that?
Guest:No.
Marc:So let's wait.
Marc:I want to talk more about the ding-ho and how somebody with your particular voice...
Guest:My particular wilting voice?
Guest:Is that what you mean?
Marc:No, no, you're approached to comedy because I know what it's like to perform in Boston.
Marc:How old were you when you started doing stand-up there?
Guest:19.
Marc:So you're 19 years old.
Marc:You're an oddball, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You will own that.
Marc:And you're going up in front of these audiences like, hey, who the fuck is this?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Okay, you know what I started to tell you earlier about the ding-ho?
Guest:About the ding-ho, yeah.
Guest:About the ding-ho.
Guest:I followed a comic.
Guest:Now, I will say he said it as a it was a joke about how far could he go kind of thing.
Guest:But I swear to you, this is true.
Guest:It was an open mic night on one of my triumphant returns.
Guest:And I followed a comic whose last line before he left was, so I was eating out the cunt of a bear.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And not only that, but the crowd went wild over it.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:And now I go on.
Guest:There's a lot going on there.
Guest:You know, to tell like a little cat story.
Guest:You know, I, yeah.
Guest:It was just one of those moments where you go, you know, maybe this is not the right time and place.
Guest:Maybe I need to control my destiny a little bit more than this.
Guest:So it was a rough place to work out.
Marc:Do you remember the punchline of that joke?
Guest:That was the punchline.
Guest:That was the punchline.
Guest:And as I said, the crowd went insane.
Guest:Now, I think the joke was kind of like, how disgusting can I get?
Guest:And I got to tell you, among bears, that kills.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Bears love that.
Guest:Bears love that.
Marc:Yeah, because they don't think they cross over and they feel isolated.
Guest:So just to be part of something.
Guest:So yeah, this guy is doing a Ranger Rick tour to beat the band.
Guest:He's doing the salacious Ranger Rick tour.
Marc:Right, the raw Ranger Rick tour.
Marc:So how long from that moment, I mean, how much shit did you take?
Marc:I mean, did you do those one-nighters in Boston?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did Plums in Worcester.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:What were you working for, The Connection or Mike Clark?
Guest:Did you work for Mike Clark?
Guest:I think it was The Connection.
Guest:I did work for Mike Clark some.
Guest:I was always... I mean, you knew if they were hiring me that pretty much everyone else was dead.
Guest:Is that really?
Guest:Everybody else was unavailable.
Guest:I was not popular among the people who booked.
Marc:But were you one of those people?
Marc:Because I know how Boston works sometimes where it's just sort of like...
Marc:you were treated as sort of this weird one, but you send her out, and maybe she'd do it, maybe she wouldn't.
Marc:There was an assumption there, and it still exists, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, that there are the local heroes that still work, and they're great comics, but for a while there, and you came up before me, there was this weird aversion to these weird kids that are doing this thing now.
Marc:There was actually a little bit of a schism between regional acts and people that were unique.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I think that Stephen Wright changed that and Goldthwait changed that a bit.
Marc:And there was a couple guys that came out of Boston that were, you know, weirdos in a good way.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but you're right.
Guest:They had a different... Sensibility.
Guest:You know, I mean, Stephen kind of is a bad example because he just sort of was... He was just so great.
Guest:I mean, so undeniable.
Guest:Sweet guy, too.
Guest:That he was... Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Guest:That, you know, that he...
Guest:you know they were but he stayed there they were tripping over themselves right to have you know to have steve he didn't you know he didn't have to sort of succumb how many women were there working in that crew there weren't hardly any no great comic um uh named lauren dobrowski yeah she passed away sad yeah she was great she used to work out of there right i knew her actually because um i knew her before either of us were stand-ups
Guest:She was the cashier at a restaurant in Boston that I bust tables at, at Salad for All Seasons.
Guest:And so I was lucky enough to just enjoy, you know, hanging out and laughing with Lauren Debrowski, which was a great time.
Marc:Yeah, there was a few.
Marc:There were some people that kind of followed your footsteps.
Marc:I remember a girl named Jennifer Hogue, who was kind of interesting, and Sue McGinnis, who was more like the guy.
Marc:She beat me in the WBCN.
Guest:I don't know anything.
Marc:Yeah, no, it was long.
Marc:But like, yeah, because you split to protect yourself on some level.
Guest:I went to see what clubs were like in other cities.
Guest:So I took a Greyhound bus around the country.
Guest:Are you afraid of flying?
Guest:No, I didn't have any money.
Guest:So I used to be able to get, you'd get a ticket to go anywhere you wanted for a month for $150.
Marc:Anyway, you can just get on any bus anytime and go, I remember that vaguely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I did that for a couple of months.
Guest:And I would go to, I would go, for example, to Denver.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, you know, somewhere along the way.
Guest:And what I would do is I'd arrive in Denver.
Guest:put my suitcases in a locker, find a schedule that showed me I would look for another location, a destination that was about four hours away.
Guest:And I would find when was the last time they were leaving the Denver bus station.
Guest:I would then return to get on that bus.
Guest:And as soon as I arrived at that four-hour-away destination, I would get back on another bus coming back to Denver.
Guest:And in this way, I got my eight hours.
Right.
Marc:so i lived on a greyhound bus and so for for a couple months and you did you went and looked at comedy or just cities now but there was really a weird kind of almost like a migration of of boston comics to san francisco there was a trap door i think between the two places it's interesting because it was like dana gould you kevin meanie bobcat tomcat yeah um who else was from the boston that ended up there but that was like the big five right
Guest:Yeah, Dan Spencer.
Guest:Oh, Dan Spencer.
Guest:And the other guy that was one of those, the three guys from Boston, Goldthwaite, Spencer, and there was another guy.
Guest:Tom Canney.
Guest:Tom, and there was another one.
Guest:There was one other one?
Guest:It was Paul something who was named.
Guest:Koslowski.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:No disrespect, Paul.
Marc:No, he's here, actually.
Marc:He runs a theater.
Marc:He's got a theater that he lives in.
Marc:Oh, I didn't know that.
Marc:Yeah, the fake gallery is Koslowski's.
Marc:Isn't that funny?
Marc:Yeah, he's bearded, and he lives in this space where he has a stage.
Marc:And a lot of San Francisco, like Jim Earl works there frequently, David Feldman.
Marc:He's got his own little world down there, and he paints.
Marc:It's interesting to catch up with people sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It makes me smile to hear all these names, by the way.
Guest:I mean, it's not like every moment of our existence together was charming and wonderful, but there were fun times.
Marc:Because there were pictures of you in the punchline, but what was it about San Francisco that became such a mecca to a certain type of comic?
Marc:Because I lived there for two years, and I remember why.
Guest:I'll tell you something.
Guest:The strange thing to the whole story about stand-up comedy in the 80s was why did the comedy connection, which were these two producer guys that decided to- Barclay and Downs?
Guest:Right.
Guest:We'll start having stand-up comedy.
Guest:Why did they do that at the same time as Rick at- Catch?
Guest:No, in Chicago.
Guest:I can never remember the name of that club, but I work there a lot.
Guest:Zany's?
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you know what I mean?
Guest:Why did all those places spring up?
Guest:I mean, stand-up comedy's been going since they came out of the caves.
Marc:When did it become a business?
Marc:Yeah, why did it blow up?
Guest:No, why did-
Guest:That renaissance start right then in all those cities simultaneously, and it was not orchestrated such that there was a burgeoning comedy scene in all these places that I could go on the Greyhound bus.
Guest:Do you have an answer?
Guest:San Francisco was just one of them.
Guest:That is one of the great mysteries.
Guest:That and the Big Bang both are confusing to me.
Marc:Why was there an explosion of stand-up at that time?
Guest:Right at the same time in all those places at the same time.
Guest:And originally, we had not traveled.
Guest:This was like the beginning of...
Marc:Well, there was literally, but at that time, there was still those four comedy cities.
Marc:It was New York and L.A., and then it seemed to be... But New York and L.A.
Guest:always had something.
Marc:But then there was Boston and San Francisco.
Guest:Right.
Marc:There were not huge, like, kind of local scenes until later.
Guest:Well, there was Chicago.
Guest:Right, Chicago, yeah.
Guest:There were parts of, you know, Ohio.
Guest:So, yeah, there was Denver at Comedy Works.
Guest:Comedy Works, great.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:Roseanne was out of there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And made me laugh until I cried one night hanging out.
Guest:that was the best stuff I have no idea why but when I took Greyhound bus and ended up in San Francisco you just ended up there yeah you know because there's ocean after that right and so I did just stop there I had a friend from Boston another comic who had gone there who Jim Morris and he said that I could stay the impressionist yes and he was from Boston right and he said that I could stay with him which by the way his roommates hated and I didn't stay with him for very long
Guest:But he didn't, I couldn't reach him by phone the day that I arrived on the Grand Hall bus.
Guest:And so I stayed with a stranger the first night.
Guest:I wish I could find that guy again.
Guest:I have no idea where he went.
Guest:Never found him again.
Guest:The only reason I stopped staying at his place was because the stairs to his apartment were just too much for me.
Guest:I just, even at a young age, I was just too lazy for that.
Guest:But the first night I ever went on stage at the other cafe, I just went, oh my God, I found it.
Guest:I found the thing.
Guest:I found where I belong.
Marc:It was embracing community.
Marc:San Francisco had a history of loving odd people.
Guest:They did.
Guest:And they were willing to sort of be patient and wait for it.
Guest:They were willing.
Guest:They were like, no, you go ahead.
Guest:You find the thing and then you tell us and we will be so thrilled that we were here the night you found it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:The night Paula found Paula.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:They would wait and wait.
Guest:They never seemed resentful.
Guest:You could be, like, totally unfunny for 10 minutes.
Guest:Not on purpose, of course.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, and then all of a sudden hit the thing, and they were back, and they were with you, and they were just thrilled to have been on the kind of ground floor.
Guest:They took great pride in, well, people like me, that they felt like they made me, and you know what?
Guest:They were right.
Marc:But Boston claims ownership, too, right?
Guest:Only...
Marc:No, in the sense of audiences.
Guest:I mean, you are- Yes, but that took quite a while for that regional pride to show up.
Guest:I mean, I think for the longest time, I was an embarrassment to my hometown, an embarrassment to- Oh, thank God you made it.
Marc:I persevered.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But it's also interesting that in the 80s that that crew out of San Francisco was very diverse, very... I mean, you came out of the same bunch, like Slayton, right?
Marc:And there's all those early Punchline comics.
Marc:I mean, who... I'm trying to... Was Degeneres there?
Guest:She came from New Orleans.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she did come to San Francisco, yes, and she was great.
Marc:And Kevin Meany and Dana Gould was up there and Proops came later.
Guest:Dana Carvey.
Guest:I don't know where Kevin Nealon was from.
Guest:Steven Pearl.
Guest:Yeah, Steve Pearl's from there.
Guest:Kevin Nealon used to come work there.
Guest:I'm not sure where he was from originally, but I love Kevin Nealon.
Marc:He's great.
Guest:He's just so silly.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to have him on in a couple weeks.
Marc:Yeah, he's always very funny.
Marc:I think underrated as well.
Guest:um yeah i do too actually and the nicest man in the world yeah so what when was the first break i mean you were in san francisco hammering out doing i'm waiting for it how about alex bennett yeah he was big with the yeah look at that face yeah yeah yeah not for you huh not so much not so much did you have a specific incident that made or was it just talking about i never liked what he was cultivating there which was uh kind of a mean-spirited stuff that i don't like
Marc:By the time I got to San Francisco, when I lived there for two years in 92, all he did was talk about maybe he was sick.
Marc:That was the entire show.
Marc:I was like, I feel sweaty.
Marc:Does anyone?
Marc:I got a little stomach thing.
Marc:And it was just three comics sitting there watching Alex talk about, you know, does anyone else feel like that stomach?
Marc:That is too funny.
Guest:Yeah, no, he, you know.
Marc:Right, shock jock, hookers, porn stars.
Guest:And so what he did sort of to the San Francisco comedy scene was obviously if you could get on the Alex Bennett show, which was a very popular radio show at the time, you were going to be able to sell tickets.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the people that he cultivated and brought on his show that then became, you know, I mean, it is after all business, you know, that then became the people that were sort of, you know, he was a bit of a king maker.
Guest:And I guess I just I never was fond of the sense of humor that he popularized.
Marc:Right, but it didn't seem like, unlike New York or maybe Philadelphia, that it was completely filth-oriented.
Marc:I mean, he did sort of champion some pretty good acts.
Marc:Maybe he had an issue with women.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I really felt that...
Guest:Perhaps he championed some pretty good acts.
Guest:I guess I think that they might have been better had they gone in a different direction.
Guest:It's like, I mean, he wasn't responsible for their sort of innate abilities.
Guest:But the subject matter that they enjoyed, I just never did.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yes, there was a lot of He-Man women haters clubs, which I thought was really funny when the Stooges did it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that was the 40s.
Guest:I think we're ready for some new thoughts.
Guest:So that felt like not, I didn't, yeah, that wasn't, you know, the thing about San Francisco is such a, it really is a place that, you know, sort of embraces the unique place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I felt like what he was doing wasn't, you know, there's nothing unique about, you know, sort of ghettoizing a group of people.
Guest:That's not unique at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Unfortunately, that's as old as the hill.
Guest:So I just didn't like that bent and I felt it kind of mess San Francisco up a bit.
Marc:So you stayed away from the show?
Guest:I did.
Guest:The truth is, I suppose that if they had ever liked me, I might have carefully molded myself to fit there.
Guest:I mean, I might have been on his show like once or something like that.
Marc:Who were your pals in San Francisco, comic-wise?
Guest:Dana Carvey.
Marc:Do you guys still stay in touch?
Guest:We don't.
Guest:We really don't.
Guest:I mean, the last time I saw him was at the 30-year anniversary show for the other cafe, which was held like about a year ago.
Guest:Did you do the Holy City Zoo?
Guest:I did.
Marc:Yeah, because I got there right when that was closing his doors forever.
Guest:oh that's that's too bad it was a fun and funny place you know i remember uh my friend jane dornacker was there one night and uh she was a very funny comic very iconic uh to san francisco and uh she didn't used to go to the holy city zoo and one night she was on stage and it was like we were talking about you know there's a handful of people when it was packed at seat of 50 i think right it was right it was like a closet it was a very small place they had a balcony that i think sat two people yeah
Guest:Yeah, the spice rack.
Guest:So one night Jane was on, and some audience member said, you know, how come you never come here?
Guest:And she said, because it smells like vomit.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's a good enough reason.
Guest:And I thought, you know, that's what that smells like.
Guest:So that's what's been bothering me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that was it.
Guest:Thank you, Jane.
Guest:Thank you, Jane, for putting words on it.
Marc:So you did Carson with Carson?
Yeah.
Guest:I did do Carson with Carson, but never in the way, by the time I did Carson, I don't, you know, I don't think his brethren experienced this, but I did Carson when Carson didn't talk to you.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Towards the end?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he, I was on, he's, you know, there's sort of a hi, but then you're sitting in a chair beside a man who, like when they go to a break, it was like I wasn't there.
Marc:So you did, like, in that, what was it, the late 80s, you started to become, like, an established, like, one of the people.
Marc:Like, you won a Club Comic Award, didn't you?
Marc:An Ace Award and stuff like that.
Guest:I got to tell you, though, everyone won a Club Comic Award, especially for a woman.
Guest:I mean, it always makes me laugh when people are introduced with, you know, in 19, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:She won the funniest comic of the year.
Marc:But you're a rare comic.
Marc:It's not an issue of male or female in the sense that you have a very unique sensibility.
Marc:There's nobody like you.
Marc:You're an authentic voice.
Marc:So it does make a difference.
Guest:I'll tell you something.
Guest:In my home, I am a household name.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, that's great.
Guest:It's good that you got the kids trained like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I say, you know what?
Marc:You will know who I am.
Marc:When you come into a room, they're like, you might have seen her on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I asked for an introduction.
Marc:Full introduction.
Marc:But what because I vaguely remember like there was a big you got it a big show.
Marc:And I'm not trying to be condescending or dismissive.
Marc:But all I recall from it was a talk show, but it was it was going to be a complete new approach.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I remember that you had a big suit on and there were ladders involved.
Guest:I don't think there was a ladder involved.
Guest:But it was a big space.
Guest:But I like it that you think that there were ladders involved.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:I just picture like, you know, Paula's doing a talk show in an airline hangar.
Guest:No, I guess it was a big space.
Guest:It was, I think you're referring to the show for ABC and it was cleverly called the Paula Poundstone Show.
Marc:Very smart.
Guest:And, you know, I'll tell you something.
Marc:But was it a late night show, though, right?
Guest:It was Saturday at 9.
Guest:There were a lot of elements of the show.
Guest:And, of course, they did that thing, that laughable thing that television does where they say, we'll leave you alone and we won't worry about the ratings.
Guest:You find the show.
Guest:You kind of noodle with it and find what works.
Guest:And we were canceled after three weeks.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They give you that.
Marc:That's their pitch to you until they panic.
Marc:And then they no longer get that.
Marc:Oh, your time's up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And the thing is, I mean, one of the things about coming to L.A., I don't know if you experienced this, but one of the things about coming to L.A.
Guest:is there is a language here that is all of its own.
Guest:And it's like, for example, I mean, I feel stupid saying this, but maybe it's a cautionary tale.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But when someone in the business, like whether it's an agent or a manager or a producer or a casting person, when they say, we love you, it means something different than it means in the rest of the country.
Guest:And I was young when I started, and I didn't know that.
Guest:And so I went through this horrible period where, you know, where people would say, it's not like I arrived on the scene thinking that I was the greatest thing since toast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I didn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had probably a healthy amount of, you know, skepticism about my own abilities.
Guest:But, you know, I would meet these people who would see me and go, we love you.
Guest:And I would think they love me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I really thought so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it turned out that I don't know, I guess I overheard them talking to someone else.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:They love him, too.
Guest:That's a lot of love.
Guest:So, you know, that phrase that you meant, you know, that, you know, we'll leave you alone.
Guest:You're absolutely right.
Guest:They say that it means nothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It means nothing.
Guest:It means that, you know, they'll hang you out to dry.
Guest:It's
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:So long as we're getting what we want, what we think we want, we're going to tell you anything we must.
Guest:Again, it's like dealing with a politician.
Guest:So what was really funny is after the ABC show was canceled, and it was a fairly heartless operation,
Guest:Later, this guy that had been sort of a lower echelon ABC guy and now has moved his way up, took me to lunch one day to talk to me about a daytime show, which never made any sense to me at all.
Guest:I'm like, well, I don't see how that's going to work.
Guest:I could barely get away with late night.
Guest:Daytime, they'll hang me.
Guest:And the guy said to me at one point over lunch, and he says, we'll leave you alone.
Guest:And I think I was truly, I did a real life spit take.
Guest:I just went like...
Guest:yeah i said i got bad news for you uh i've been here for a couple years now you can't say that to me don't leave me alone i think the guy even started to laugh he was like yeah and i just you know i couldn't help wondering if in executive class you know they don't go over the phrases you know like like in a berlitz language right yeah you know how are you today we will leave you alone i
Marc:These are bad things.
Guest:I used to say, we love you.
Marc:Yeah, that just means I think she can make us money.
Guest:I don't know, but I think so.
Marc:So you're on, you do Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me A Lot.
Marc:You're on NPR a lot.
Marc:You do political correspondent work.
Marc:You were writing for Mother Jones for a while.
Marc:You've done a lot of interesting things, you know, and you're a thinking person's person, which is good.
Guest:Well, thank you very much.
Marc:Now, what about, let's talk a little bit about the struggles, can you?
Guest:I can talk a little bit about this.
Marc:Like, cause I know early on, like, did you have an eating thing?
Guest:No, just eat a lot.
Marc:Oh, because I remember- Just a pig.
Marc:I know the ring ding thing was like, I didn't know if it was an issue.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I'll tell you something, it's becoming more of an issue as my metabolism slows down a bit, but no.
Marc:No, not too bad?
Guest:No, I'm pretty lucky is the honest truth because I've been able to, I have not led a life of- Debauchery.
Guest:Well, of careful health choices and I haven't paid for it as heavily as some-
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's just luck of the draw.
Marc:And in terms of kind of like rebuilding after the incidents around the legal problems you had, I mean, how has that been for you?
Guest:Good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I work really hard.
Guest:I am the hardest working person that I know.
Guest:I say to my children all the time, I go, when they're being annoying...
Guest:did you ever see mom sit in a chair have you ever seen that yeah yeah was that was it all resolved um yes yeah yes i did everything that i had to do to you know make my peace with the law yeah and i did and did you did you like uh did you have a drinking issue or no oh absolutely and are you sober now uh it depends who you ask
Guest:I'm asking you.
Guest:I don't drink.
Guest:Well, I do drink.
Guest:I drink.
Guest:Diet Coke.
Guest:I got to tell you something.
Guest:When I first quit drinking, I was dry and thirsty a lot.
Guest:And it turned out that it was alcohol that they were referring to when they said don't drink.
Guest:And so that was a breakthrough.
Marc:You didn't realize you didn't have to stop drinking everything.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And, you know, my skin had taken on sort of a Chinese paper quality.
Marc:With the cat litter calluses.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and the dangerous.
Guest:So, yeah, I don't drink, and I'm glad not to drink, but I am not an AA-er.
Guest:And so some people would feel, you know, if you say sober, it's like they've trademarked the word to AA people.
Marc:But, you know, I think the issue with that, with sobriety the AA way and sober on your own terms...
Marc:I think the fear is that you'll get dry and cranky and be all dry drunky and control freaky.
Guest:I don't really understand what all that means, the dry drunky thing.
Guest:Those are trademark terms.
Guest:I will tell you one thing.
Marc:It means you're an aggravated control freak.
Marc:That's what dry drunk is.
Guest:I went backpacking with my daughter on Mount San Jacinto about two years ago now.
Guest:In fact, it was February 1st.
Guest:um we were in 12 feet of snow and um we had the experience of getting dehydrated which i think because of the altitude and stuff and um we weren't gone long it wasn't long enough to risk life um but it did take us days to recover after we got home and um and one thing that i noticed as we were hiking and you know we planned for this trip for a long time it was a good thing to be doing spectacular scenery of course and uh you know we're hiking along and
Guest:I'm noticing myself sort of sinking like a rock emotionally, and I couldn't figure out why.
Guest:I'm like, wait, I'm where I want to be, doing what I want to be, doing with whom I want to be doing it.
Guest:What's the matter?
Guest:And later, when I realized that we didn't drink enough water, it actually was one of the most eye-opening things of my entire life.
Guest:Do you know what's really important to drink water?
Marc:That's what I hear.
Guest:Yeah, I really, I mean, I've spent my... I hear it's necessary.
Guest:As it turns out.
Guest:I mean, I've spent my life, I drink a lot of diet soda.
Guest:That does not help.
Marc:I used to do that on stage too.
Guest:Were you a tab person?
Guest:I still didn't know that was Goldthwait.
Guest:I still drink a lot of diet soda and I know it's not good for me, but I do enjoy it.
Guest:But I drink a lot of water now because it actually is connected to your emotional well-being, which is why when you go to a therapist, they never say, would you like a glass of water?
Marc:Right.
Guest:that's part of what we were talking about before the vet thing the dentist thing the orthodontist that's part of their racket no water it's absolutely you know to some degree i i mean i realize that lives are complicated and and and all um uh but to some degree some elements i think of of happiness and balance are so much easier than i ever thought them to be you know what i mean it happens a little with with age a little bit too you start to relax a little bit and
Guest:That may be part of it.
Guest:I mean, I think that you go through a chemical change, or certainly I did in about 40.
Guest:But drink some water and get a decent night's sleep, and it's the darndest.
Guest:And I just think of all those years, of all the therapy, all the angst, all the journaling, all the just miserable phone calls.
Guest:And I look back on it now just with deep humiliation.
Guest:I'm like, OK, drink some water and go to bed.
Guest:Take a rest.
Guest:It's not all that challenging.
Marc:Did you find that when like when you were going through the legal problems, like because I know is being a person that is not a mainstream person necessarily and has sort of an odd point of view on the world and that people want to believe you're an oddball that that, you know, some people, despite the fact, you know, copying to a drinking problem and having the other stuff explained and dismissed that some people wanted to hold you there.
Marc:They wanted to believe the worst.
Guest:Oh, for sure.
Guest:But not the fans.
Guest:The people who actually enjoy me stuck with me.
Guest:And that's that.
Guest:But I was never...
Guest:I never had an enormous fan base.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I think I always was a bit of a boutique.
Guest:And so, you know, and that just was... And you addressed it on stage and you did some material about it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Only because it was on my mind a lot.
Guest:My act is largely autobiographical.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I talk about...
Guest:I talk about at this point raising a house full of kids and animals.
Guest:You have three kids?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Trying to pay enough attention to the news to cast a halfway decent vote, which is not always easy to do.
Guest:You know, the poor sad state of public schools and our broadcast news.
Guest:And then my favorite part of the night is talking to the audience.
Guest:I do the time-honored, where are you from, what do you do for a living?
Yeah.
Guest:But therefore, when I first started out, when I was 19, I talked a lot about busing tables and taking public transportation.
Guest:And, you know, when I when I was lucky enough to get kids, you know, I talked a lot about raising kids.
Guest:And when I had legal troubles, I talked a lot about legal sort of what it you know, what is.
Marc:How do you feel you were treated by the legal system in general?
Guest:You know, fairly lousy.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:Here's the thing about the legal system.
Guest:It's the same thing as a political system, which is that it is filled with people.
Guest:And, you know, we are all...
Guest:flawed.
Guest:And so it's not going to be, it's not a science.
Guest:So you're going to deal with personalities and kind of bents throughout the whole thing.
Guest:And for the entire incident of my legal problems, I have no one to blame but myself.
Guest:Did I not have myself in that position, I would not have been dealing with the legal system
Guest:I mean, not that I don't think there are improvements to be made in terms of legal system.
Guest:I think that we as a country need to keep hacking away at – that's the great challenge of a civilization is how do you get fairness?
Guest:Right.
Marc:So the bottom line is you take responsibility for your part of it, which was like, I was drinking, and there was this, and that's done, and the other thing was... But guess what?
Guest:When you deal with the legal system, you deal with some assholes.
Guest:Blow me away.
Guest:Uh-oh.
Marc:Is that you?
Marc:It is.
Marc:Is it time to stop?
Guest:That's all the time we have.
Guest:It's as if I'm in the front row at the New York Philharmonic.
Guest:Isn't that where...
Guest:I have no idea who that is.
Marc:You don't?
Marc:No.
Marc:You know, I'm glad that everything is, you know, back on track and you're doing well.
Guest:Yeah, I am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I'm lucky.
Guest:I mean, you know, it was a long time ago, thank goodness.
Guest:And so, you know, the next chapter and the next chapter.
Marc:But, you know, work is good and you're on public radio a lot and you're doing a lot of touring.
Guest:I love my job.
Guest:I don't know if that's an age thing.
Guest:I mean, it's not like I ever didn't like my job, but I think there was a time where I felt somehow more put upon.
Guest:I don't know where I got off with that feeling ever.
Guest:I guess it was my reaction to being busy, I suppose, because it's hard sometimes to figure out how to spin all those plates.
Guest:And now I consider, I mean, every time I step on stage, I am filled with this...
Guest:The excitement of talking to the crowd, the sheer joy of getting to do that and the feeling of how unbelievably lucky I am.
Guest:So I go to every job, I think, just feeling like just looking forward to telling stuff to people and getting their reaction and having that endorphin production.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Was your family supportive?
Marc:I mean, are they all happy for you and whatnot?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:I always tell people, and I tell this to my children too, that when I was 19 and I started, people used to say to me all the time, well, you know, what do your parents think about that?
Guest:And I always responded to them, I don't think it's any of their business.
Guest:And I tell my kids that story and I say, and you may have the same.
Guest:It's not up to me what you do.
Guest:It's up to you what you do.
Guest:I mean, I may have an opinion about it, but don't let that stop you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So did they have an opinion about it?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:I never asked.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I didn't.
Marc:How about your siblings?
Guest:I think that they were supportive, I suppose.
Guest:We all kind of went our different ways, I think.
Guest:It would never have occurred to me to ask them what they thought.
Marc:But usually parents will step in and say something, or siblings, you're not that close.
Guest:No, I really wasn't.
Guest:And by the way...
Guest:as opposed to what i mean i think i was i my my my if i was trying to be realistic when i was young i would have said that i was gonna you know probably someday manage a restaurant yeah um so not that that's a bad thing no it's a great thing to do but uh i think that i'm glad in retrospect that i don't um because you know what when i worked at bickford's pancake house i was never that good with the cash yeah
Guest:I used to put the checks underneath the drawer in the cash register with the money.
Guest:I would just put it all under there and decide that I would fix it later, which I think upset the manager.
Marc:So you're better off doing what you do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This show has turned my career around because I was at a point where I didn't have anything.
Marc:And I didn't know what else to do.
Marc:And I have to assume that given what you went through, that there was a moment there where you were like, what am I going to do?
Guest:I was trying hard to think of a plan B. And by the way, coming up with nothing.
Guest:I mean, I...
Guest:We're riding in the car one day, and I said to my kids, I always try to let them know, and this was like right at the time where we were really struggling.
Guest:I was in the midst of the legal problems, and things were very difficult.
Guest:And so we're riding in the car, and I always tried to tell the kids a couple days ahead of time when I was going out of town so it wouldn't blow them out of the water.
Guest:So I say...
Guest:I say, I go, okay, mom's going on the big plane day after tomorrow, because that's how we said it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my son was, you know, huffing and, oh, oh, was very upset about it.
Guest:And I said, honey, you know, I have racked my brain to think of something I could do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I said, but I don't know how to do anything else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my...
Guest:My daughter, Allie, who I don't know, she was maybe seven at the time, maybe.
Guest:She said, she goes, oh, mom.
Guest:And she goes, I love it that you're a stand-up comic.
Guest:And then she took this funny little pause and she said, and don't you love it?
Guest:which was such a great moment.
Guest:I mean, she's a regular kid.
Guest:She's a kid who wants more for herself.
Guest:But for that moment, she cared about whether or not I was happy in my work, which just blew me away.
Guest:And it's not like I'd ever sat and talked with her about whether I was happy in my work.
Guest:I try not to burden my children with all of my difficulties.
Guest:But one time, she's a funny kid that way.
Guest:She's a great kid.
Guest:One time we were walking down the street because, trust me, soon thereafter, she returned to as selfish as any other kid can be.
Guest:And that's just how they're supposed to be.
Guest:There's nothing wrong with it.
Marc:But there are those moments where they're just geniuses and sensitive and perceptive and they understand everything.
Guest:And so great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't have enough of those moments myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're walking down the street one day.
Guest:We dropped her older sister off at school and happened to be around Christmas time.
Guest:And I say to her, I go, why don't we go over to the mall and you could talk to Santa Claus?
Guest:And she was like, well, why would I want to do that?
Guest:And I said, you know, a toddler.
Guest:And I go, well, honey, because, you know, you sit on his lap and you tell him what you want for Christmas.
Yeah.
Guest:And she walked for a little ways, and she said, well, you know.
Guest:I said, well, have you thought about what you want for Christmas?
Guest:She said, no.
Guest:And she thought about it for a little while, and we walked and walked.
Guest:Thought about it for a little while, and she said, I would like a Christmas bear.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:I almost started to weep right there in the street.
Guest:Like I thought, what a wonderful child I've raised that has no, you know, she feels she has everything she needs.
Guest:There's nothing that she wants other than a Christmas.
Guest:It was such a beautiful moment.
Guest:And we walked a little further and she said, I thought of something else.
Yeah.
Guest:At which point the scroll would out like, oh, there's more.
Marc:She just needed to process.
Marc:She's like, oh, the window's open here.
Marc:I got a portal into getting my needs met with things.
Guest:Do we have time to stop and get a catalog?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that feeling of like, you know, of what you mentioned before, this endorphin thing or this give and take with an audience.
Marc:I mean, and I think you sort of hinted at it.
Marc:It's not, it's a mutual thing.
Guest:Oh, oh, oh, yeah.
Marc:Like that, you know, you're giving something.
Marc:I never really thought about it like that.
Marc:That like, you know, makes you feel good.
Guest:But the audience... Oh, that's what keeps you coming back for more.
Guest:I mean, maybe, you know, yeah.
Guest:I mean, that's the...
Guest:I don't do it because I'm a selfless, giving individual.
Guest:I do it because that response and that connection fills me up.
Guest:And it is the connection.
Guest:You know, I fear.
Guest:I mean, I do the Twitter thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I enjoy it a lot.
Guest:I'm addicted to it.
Guest:And I do goofy, stupid Facebook.
Guest:And I enjoy it a lot.
Guest:But I don't for a moment feel that that's what fills me up.
Guest:I mean, to be with people and feel that connection.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't?
Guest:It's not healthy.
Marc:But it's working right now.
Guest:Well, that's good, but there has to be... I'm getting out a little.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's very important to connect.
Guest:We're pack animals.
Guest:Okay, you're right.
Guest:So when you go to a theater and you say...
Guest:I can tell people things about me that just if I were on my own reflecting, sometimes even feel like I'm a freak or something, you know.
Guest:And I share it with an audience.
Guest:Here's just a random – I was diagnosed about 12 years ago or so with obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Guest:Well, the truth is everyone has OCD.
Guest:It's only diagnosed based on the degree to which it interrupts your life.
Guest:But it's so funny to go –
Guest:on stage and tell people about that and have everybody in the crowd like some people who didn't even know that they were responding to you know that that's what they have yeah um and probably had felt somewhat freakish about their behaviors before and now everybody you know i get peels of laughter over it because people go oh me too
Marc:How does yours manifest itself?
Guest:Well, for one thing, and you're about to recognize this, I can't stop talking to save my life.
Guest:That's a big one.
Marc:But do you redo things and go back and check things?
Marc:Or do things need to be in order?
Guest:I'm a big vacuumer.
Guest:Now, as it happens, my life is set up such that I must.
Guest:I'm a big cleaner.
Guest:I used to be a big floor scrubber.
Guest:And, you know, by the way, there's virtue to that.
Marc:Of course, yeah.
Marc:No, obsessive-compulsive disorder can be very proactive.
Guest:You want, you know, I think the Wright brothers had it up the yin-yang, and I thank them for that.
Guest:I think you want your accountant to have it.
Guest:Yeah, there are good reasons to have OCD, and then sometimes it's not so productive.
Marc:Yeah, if you can't get out of the house because the gas just doesn't seem to be turned off, then you're...
Guest:Yeah, then that's not so bad.
Guest:I remember one time seeing like one of those, you know, evening magazine kind of television shows about they were doing a piece on a guy who had it, and he kept straightening the tassels on the end of his rug.
Guest:And he had a wife and kids, and they're all being interviewed.
Guest:They're all like crying, you know, Dad, he won't go to work.
Guest:And I'm like, why would you buy a tassel rug then?
Guest:Because if I had a tassel rug, I would straighten the tassels all day.
Guest:Absolutely, no question.
Guest:That's why I don't have a tassel rug.
Guest:You know, like there is no disorder that I can think of that makes a man buy a tassel rug.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Why don't the concerned wife and children, when the man falls asleep, which he's going to do eventually.
Marc:Replace the rug.
Guest:Take the rug to the dump, for heaven's sakes.
Marc:But I think sometimes that OCD or obsession in itself is sort of a, it's a hole filler.
Marc:It's a spiritual thing that if you're grounded in an obsessive behavior, it gives your life some consistency.
Marc:And if it's not too damaging or too crazy, then so be it.
Guest:Oh, I don't think it's necessarily harmful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, absolutely.
Guest:I always say to people, I used to just think I was an asshole.
Guest:It was so good to find out that there was something in particular that was causing it.
Marc:So it's always good to find the pathology behind being an asshole.
Guest:It's very, very helpful.
Guest:So you organize the cereals and then leave the house.
Guest:You alphabetize.
Guest:I'm a big guy.
Guest:I used to work in a bookstore.
Guest:Perfect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Once you work in a bookstore, you never can stop straightening.
Marc:Well, and it's good that everything's in alphabetical order as long as nobody messes with that order.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, Paula.
Guest:It was nice talking with you.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Marc:Hell yeah.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:That's all of it.
Marc:I'll be back in the garage on Thursday.
Marc:Hope you enjoyed the chat with Paula.
Marc:She's a very interesting odd bird.
Marc:Very funny.
Marc:I like talking to her.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:I don't have any just coffee on me, so I can't power it up for you people.
Marc:But go there, get on the mailing list, pick up some merch, kick in a few shekels.
Marc:Look at the new shirts.
Marc:Got the Coop shirts up in the merch area.
Marc:The Hot Rod, Big Daddy Roth style Coop shirts.
Marc:Very excited about those.
Marc:Oh, my God, I got to go outside.
Marc:I have to go outside or sleep, nap.
Marc:How come my right eye isn't working?
you