Episode 259 - Nick Offerman and Megan Mullally
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:What the fuckistanis and what the fuckanesians?
Marc:What the fuckables?
Marc:All right, that's enough.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Thank you for joining me here in the garage, which is where I am testing out my new AC heat unit on my roof that I ran a pipe into the garage with that doesn't seem to be kicking enough cool air out here.
Marc:And I already gave away my other unit.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:I'll deal with that in a minute.
Marc:Today on the show, a couple, another couple, Nick Offerman, Megan Mullally.
Marc:I'm no good with L's.
Marc:I have rolling L's.
Marc:It takes a lot to say Megan Mullally's name because I do my L's from my throat.
Marc:Let's not discuss my speech impediment.
Marc:Now that I've brought it to your attention, probably again for some of you.
Marc:Before we get into the show, a couple of things.
Marc:I would like to tell everyone in Minneapolis that I will be at Acme this week, March 8th through 10th, Thursday through Saturday at the Acme Comedy Club.
Marc:My return to the Acme Comedy Club.
Marc:Couldn't be more excited.
Marc:On this Sunday, March 11th, I will be at South by Southwest doing a live WTF one-on-one with Jeffrey Tambor.
Marc:That's at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Marc:I believe it's at Esther's Follies.
Marc:I have no idea how one gets into that.
Marc:I don't know how South by Southwest works.
Marc:I fly in.
Marc:I go where I'm supposed to go.
Marc:It's a big clusterfuck of a something.
Marc:I have no idea how anyone gets anywhere, what the pass situation is or ticket situation.
Marc:They have let in fans in the past.
Marc:Can't guarantee anything.
Marc:Not sure.
Marc:You have to look into that.
Marc:March 15th, I will be live at the Gilda's Laugh Fest in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Marc:If you want to check out more about that, you can go to laughfestgr.org.
Marc:I'll also be doing a live WTF at Gilda's Laugh Fest on March 17th.
Marc:That's stand up on the 15th.
Marc:Live WTF on the 17th with Tommy Johnigan, Drew Hastings, Kevin Nealon, and Alan Zweibel, and perhaps Jim Gaffigan.
Marc:And also, there's a long tease, March 23rd and 24th, I'll be at the Comedy Attic in Bloomington, Indiana.
Marc:Moving on, I'm fucking at the edge of my sanity a little bit.
Marc:I'm a little bit...
Marc:Trigger happy for all of you people who were worried about my peace of mind destroying the show or perhaps happiness pervading my being to a point where those of you who are interested in me will become uninterested in me.
Marc:I don't think that that's going to happen.
Marc:I am frazzled.
Marc:Something is going on.
Marc:I did have a great time in Miami.
Marc:And as much as I say about South Florida or Florida in general, are you going to deny to me that that place is nothing but a fucking freak show?
Marc:And I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.
Marc:I don't know why people think that I give Florida a bad rap just because I canceled a gig in Tampa.
Marc:It was not specifically to do with the people of Florida.
Marc:I just generally don't think that I have a lot of people there.
Marc:But I was proven wrong.
Marc:A few hundred WTFers showed up at the Colony Theater at the South Beach Comedy Festival and we had a great time and I appreciate that happening.
Marc:I just acknowledge the truth of Florida.
Marc:It's a freak show and if you're going to deny that, you're worse than a freak.
Marc:You're out of your mind.
Marc:So what's going on?
Marc:I'll tell you what's going on.
Marc:Jessica moved into my house.
Marc:It's official.
Marc:So within hours of that becoming official, I became an official asshole.
Marc:I don't know how it happened.
Marc:Maybe it's cutting both ways.
Marc:I'm not sure.
Marc:We moved her stuff in.
Marc:That was an awkward bit of business.
Marc:She was at work and this is where I'm at.
Marc:I'm the guy moving my chick stuff in to my house while she's at work.
Marc:So I got to go to her apartment, which I've maybe been to twice, which I think she's been to a few more times than that.
Marc:That was basically her safe house and my, I don't know how to phrase it, insurance policy.
Marc:I wanted her to keep that apartment because you never know when shit is going to hit the fan.
Marc:And when you say, please get the fuck out of my house, you want them to have someplace to go.
Marc:Or if she said, I'm fucking done with this, I'm going to the apartment that I barely live in.
Marc:She had someplace to go, but now that's gone.
Marc:And I had to go over there and remove the last few artifacts, the last few pieces of her life into a truck and bring it to this storage unit that I got us.
Marc:Yeah, I got us a storage unit.
Marc:I got a huge one because I thought I'd need it for both of our stuff.
Marc:And I think I'm going to need it for both of our stuff.
Marc:But I think that there was some part of my brain thought, well, I better get one big enough for in case if shit doesn't work out, she could live in the storage unit.
Marc:Obviously, I wouldn't expect that.
Marc:But I think given the size of the storage unit, there was some part of me that thought like, well, she could probably live here for a couple of days if necessary.
Marc:But the deed is done.
Marc:She is in my house and something has happened because I got I woke up.
Marc:Compromise is no easy thing, man.
Marc:But I can't stay mad at this girl anymore.
Marc:We've been through enough shit that I can't stay mad at her.
Marc:You know, I built a wall.
Marc:Where there wasn't a wall to finish this room so I could create a shelving unit in hopes that she will put her shit away.
Marc:We'll see what happens.
Marc:And I'm not judging her and I'm not judging women in general.
Marc:I just find that this is the first time that I've been willing to kind of suck it up and be a good person in a relationship.
Marc:It doesn't mean it's not Rocky.
Marc:I mean, we've been officially living together for about a week, and we've already had a fight about that.
Marc:For some reason, when it locks into your head, the fear kicks in, and already there was one of those fights that ended with like, well, maybe you don't want to live here.
Marc:But she's been living here.
Marc:I mean, she doesn't go.
Marc:She hasn't been going to that apartment.
Marc:It just wasn't official.
Marc:The apartment still existed.
Marc:The safe house, the insurance policy, the fallback was always there.
Marc:Now it's gone.
Marc:And all of a sudden, everything is black and white.
Marc:I'm like, well, if you're going to do this, then I don't know if we can fucking do this.
Marc:It's just ridiculous.
Marc:And I got these headaches in the back of my head that are running through my shoulders.
Marc:I got to get to some meetings.
Marc:I got to let some stuff go.
Marc:This has got to work.
Marc:You know, I'm one of these people.
Marc:I was down in Florida.
Marc:I was talking to my friend Dave Stebbins who opened for me.
Marc:And I said, I don't know what's going on with me, man.
Marc:I am feeling better.
Marc:I don't feel, I don't have as much dread.
Marc:I don't look as far into the future as I used to.
Marc:Maybe I have a tumor.
Marc:Who the hell frames it like that?
Marc:It's the same thing with love.
Marc:When I talk to Megan Mullally and I talk to Nick Offerman about how they met and about the love that they have and sitting there crossing them.
Marc:When people fall in love,
Marc:That they think it's joy and it's wonderful and that's the way it should be.
Marc:I'm in love or I love somebody and I'm like, I'm fucked.
Marc:It's over.
Marc:What have I gotten myself into?
Marc:Love.
Marc:What have I gotten myself into?
Marc:Love is in the house.
Marc:What have I gotten myself into?
Marc:I hope I can fit love in this storage unit because there's going to come to a point where I'm going to be up to my neck in love and I'm going to want it out.
Marc:I must love her because I went to a party with her last night.
Marc:I don't go out much.
Marc:I socialize with very few people.
Marc:I see a couple of comics.
Marc:Sometimes I'll go to a function of some sort, but I'm more of a homebody.
Marc:Cook some food up, sit around, fester with her by myself.
Marc:I've got a few people that I fester with, but I don't go out that much.
Marc:I should go out more.
Marc:Last night we went to Scott Conant's restaurant.
Marc:which was great.
Marc:It was awesome.
Marc:It was the second time we went there.
Marc:I don't think I can go there again unless I take out a loan, but it was really pretty great.
Marc:And then I agreed with her to go to a party because it became down to this weird thing.
Marc:You know what happens when you're in a couple?
Marc:It's like, well, you want to go do that, but I don't want to go do that.
Marc:I thought we were going to hang out tonight, but you got to go do that.
Marc:It's going to take all night.
Marc:So I guess I'll just make my own plans then.
Marc:Or else we could both go do this, and then I'll go over there with you.
Marc:So I go to this party.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know her friends that well, but it was supposed to be a party.
Marc:It was at an apartment.
Marc:There was about eight people there.
Marc:Two of the guys looked way high.
Marc:I had not walked into a room of an apartment that was a two...
Marc:room apartment that had just been moved into there was a big screen set up and there was a mega death concert playing on it there was like four people on the couch two guys at the table that if if there was a picture of what stoned looked like they should have been it so she wants to hang out and have a couple drinks and talk to her friends i want to leave immediately
Marc:but I'm trying to be the good boyfriend.
Marc:So I sit there like the old man in the room.
Marc:That's the other thing I got to start really accepting is that I walk in there and I'm sure they were probably like, oh man, whose dad is that?
Marc:But I've never had this feeling in my life where I'm sitting in a room full of people.
Marc:Bong is being passed around.
Marc:Drinks are being had.
Marc:People are talking to each other.
Marc:And I'm watching a Megadeth concert with the sound off while some other music plays.
Marc:And the only thing I'm thinking is, why don't they just turn on the Megadeth video and let me watch this?
Marc:Because I don't think I can talk.
Marc:And they did not do that.
Marc:So I sat there.
Marc:It was like going back in time.
Marc:It wasn't a party.
Marc:It was a bong circle.
Marc:But she had a good time.
Marc:And we didn't stay too long.
Marc:I became the excuse.
Marc:Can we go?
Marc:Grandpa's got to sleep.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:I'm trying.
Marc:It's going to be fine.
Marc:I can't seem to stay mad at this person.
Marc:I think that is the true sign of...
Marc:of true love is when you yell, you scream, you fight.
Marc:And then when it's over, you sit, you pout, you brood like a baby for a little while.
Marc:And then eventually you're like, all right, are we going to eat?
Marc:Damn, I don't know if I'm getting older.
Marc:This is working out.
Marc:I just can't stay that aggravated.
Marc:I think I'm exhausted from it.
Marc:My neck hurts because of it.
Marc:I definitely think that if she really has to, she could probably live at that storage unit for a few days.
Marc:I'll talk to her about it.
Marc:I definitely will.
Music.
Marc:I like that painting.
Marc:I get a lot of fan art now.
Marc:People send me things of me.
Marc:And it's a little bit weird when people walk into my house and there's a gallery of me.
Marc:Because they think, what's wrong with me?
Marc:Can you hear okay?
Marc:Are you good?
Marc:You can move those things right into your face.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yay.
Marc:Megan Mullally, Nick Offerman are here in my house.
Guest:First three-way?
Marc:So yeah, it's my first three-way with actually a man, a woman, and me.
Guest:We're gonna have sex during it.
Marc:We are?
Marc:I don't know if I'm prepared for that.
Guest:I can work up to it.
Guest:Nick and I are gonna perform 69 positions.
Marc:This is going to be the best podcast ever.
Marc:I've been stretching out since 1130.
Marc:Getting to that age where we have to do that?
Guest:Just about ready.
Guest:For coitus.
Marc:Well, all right.
Marc:Well, I hadn't prepared for that, but fortunately I have a sponsor that sells condoms and stuff, so everything's good.
Marc:Right on.
Marc:I've got toys.
Marc:They sent me a whole package.
Marc:I didn't know the whole works.
Marc:I've been lubing all morning, but it's just hinges and stuff.
Marc:So now, all right, you actually do woodwork?
Marc:I do, yeah.
Guest:I build furniture and canoes.
Marc:But it's not like a celebrity hobby.
Marc:You say you have a store that you're actually looking to make some money on this?
Guest:Well, it's a shop.
Guest:We have a website, offermanwoodshop.com, and we just work out of a big warehouse by Atwater Village.
Guest:I know where that is.
Guest:Close by.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got a couple pals that work there more full-time now that I'm getting some acting work.
Guest:But it was a very big supplement to my income for years.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So are you looking at it maybe in the long arc of the career that perhaps you'll just end up working the wood?
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:That's the retirement plan.
Guest:It's a unique retirement plan.
Guest:It's something I can do when I'm no longer beautiful.
Marc:Well, I actually went on to IMDb to look at your pictures and things.
Marc:And for some reason, I associate you so deeply with the character you play.
Marc:And you look like him now, but in the pictures, not so much.
Marc:I mean, I think your character must put on about, what, 10 years, 12 years?
Guest:I suppose, yeah.
Guest:And 17 pounds is usually what we go for.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've always enjoyed sort of a Lon Chaney thing.
Guest:I love to transform as much as possible.
Guest:Is that a real nose?
Guest:This is, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:This is my current nose.
Marc:Now, all right, so now I've got this whole story in my mind for the two of you that you have to discredit or not.
Guest:It's probably right.
Marc:I don't know if it's right, but you are a Broadway person in a lot of ways, are you not?
Marc:You come from musical theater?
Guest:I'm so Broadway.
Yeah.
Marc:No, seriously.
Marc:I mean, like, I've never talked to anybody that's done musicals, and I'm oddly fascinated at that world.
Guest:You know, I've done, yeah, I've done three Broadway musicals.
Marc:Why do you say it with shame?
Guest:Well, I just, I did start out, we both started out in theater.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But I did musicals and plays, and I think Nick mostly did plays.
Guest:Is that fair to say?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what kind of theater did you start out in?
Marc:You were a founding member of a theater group, right?
Marc:Yeah, the Defiant Theater in Chicago.
Marc:Straight plays, basically.
Marc:Straight, like it's probably Chicago-style, aggressive interpretations.
Guest:Only straight people.
Marc:Only straight people.
Marc:Which is rare for theater.
Marc:We play gay people, but...
Marc:But that's how I kind of pictured it.
Marc:It's like you come from the trenches of theater and she comes from the lofty dancing part.
Guest:That's sort of accurate.
Guest:Another interpretation would be that I come from the basement and she's just been a star since she started.
Guest:I've clawed my way up for 25 years.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So it's like a Beauty and the Beast story, almost.
Marc:The briar and the rose.
Marc:But were you always in show business?
Guest:I was in show business in my mind from the time I was like three, yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, it just hit me like a ton of bricks.
Guest:And so I always wanted to...
Guest:you know shut myself off in my bedroom and make up some dire scenario where i would have a mad scene and then die of love at the end and you did that alone often accompanied to music was there did you come from show business my father was an actor for real like a real actor he he was although he never made it big but he was a contract player with paramount in the 50s
Marc:So he was on the lot?
Marc:He was one of those guys?
Guest:Yeah, he was on the lot and like one day they were in the commissary and a bunch of guys were there and my father had served in World War II and Elvis was at another table and everybody was freaking out and Elvis called my father over to the table and all the other guys at his table were...
Guest:mad and jealous and Elvis asked my father for advice about he had the option of bowing out of the Korean War and so he asked my father if he should go to war or if he should bow out and my father said he thought he should serve them in the war and he did
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So that was your dad.
Guest:Yeah, that was my dad that caused that to happen.
Marc:Your dad's the one that sent Elvis to Germany to sit out the war.
Guest:Right, right, exactly.
Guest:I think he DJed or something.
Marc:He got the good outfits, though.
Marc:You know, there's a lot of pictures of him in the outfits.
Marc:So did you spend time on the lot as a kid?
Marc:I mean, was that part of your memory?
Guest:No, it was before I was born.
Guest:And then shortly after I was born, we moved back to Oklahoma, where my parents were both from.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's a dramatic retreat from show business.
Guest:Born in Los Angeles.
Guest:Grew up in Oklahoma City.
Marc:Had he had enough?
Guest:Was that the... He had had enough.
Guest:He was sensitive and he couldn't handle the rejection and all that.
Marc:What kind of parts were they giving him?
Marc:Were they just sort of like, you know, bring in the guy with the thing?
Guest:He didn't... He got smaller parts, you know, some film and some television.
Guest:And then, you know, like he was in the pilot episode of The Twilight Zone, which is pretty cool.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, which I've never seen.
Marc:How could you not have seen it?
Guest:Well, because, yeah.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Bad daughter, I guess.
Marc:You could probably get it now.
Marc:You couldn't get it.
Guest:You couldn't get it until now you could get anything.
Marc:I could probably bring it up right now.
Guest:You could probably, we could watch it.
Guest:And then I'd start crying and everything would break down.
Marc:We haven't quite.
Marc:That is not the scenario we established at the beginning.
Marc:No.
Marc:There's no crying during a threesome.
Guest:We cry at the end, like Barbara Walters.
No.
Guest:If she does start crying, we'll jump into the 69.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:We'll drive those tours.
Marc:That's what does it for you?
Marc:We got a good thing going.
Marc:He starts crying.
Marc:I know it's time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he never made it big.
Guest:And then he did some theater and little kind of commercial things around the Southwest, like in Texas and Oklahoma.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico, so I think Oklahoma touches New Mexico at the top.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:The four-corner thing where you can go.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:There's four.
Guest:Yeah, it does.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So was there any apprehension on behalf of your father when you were like, I'm going to be in... Well, my father... Yeah, I mean, I was in a ballet company and all that stuff when I was in high school, and my mom was encouraged, you know.
Guest:She gave me lessons in sort of everything just to, like, see if anything would stick, you know.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And...
Marc:Hoping for the best.
Guest:Yeah, but my father said, oh, acting is hard, you know, and that kind of thing.
Guest:But I didn't want to believe that because if you believe that, then you're kind of screwed just starting, you know.
Marc:No, you can't start bitter.
Marc:That's something that has to evolve over time.
Marc:You have to earn it.
Guest:Yeah, you can't go in bitter from the starting gate.
Marc:So did you do Broadway first?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I did – no, actually.
Guest:I kind of pictured myself, you know, from high school.
Guest:I thought, oh, I'll go to New York and I'll audition for Broadway shows.
Guest:But my mom talked me into applying to Northwestern and I wrote a really super bullshit essay.
Guest:Yeah, do you remember it?
Guest:And I got accepted.
Guest:Oh, it was just something about, you know, my –
Guest:I just remember laying on my bedroom floor at like 2 in the morning and shitting it out and thinking, okay, they'll never take this.
Guest:And then they did, so I had to go.
Guest:And then I did a bunch of theater in Chicago.
Guest:And then I moved out here to Los Angeles with a boyfriend who then instantly moved back to Chicago.
Guest:but i already had an agent yeah he had like a thing with his parents and i he so then i was just here and then i didn't actually get cast in my first broadway show till i was 34 and i was cast by a guy who i'd known from northwestern so i was it was in greece and i was playing a 17 year old was it fun yeah
Guest:Yeah, it was really fun.
Guest:That show was a blast because it was almost everybody in the cast.
Guest:It was their first Broadway show and everybody was so excited.
Guest:And it's not a great show, but it's very popular.
Guest:It's a great show.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:It doesn't have any real story.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Dancing.
Guest:And the message is she starts out as a really nice girl and she ends up as a whore.
Guest:And that's when everybody's excited.
Guest:So that's not great.
Marc:How is that not a great story?
Guest:Well, now that you're saying it, it is kind of excellent.
Guest:Did you do any musicals, Nick?
Guest:I was in a production of Oklahoma at my high school.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:Played Judd.
Guest:And then a few years ago, I was in a musical off-Broadway, but I did not have a singing role.
Guest:What did you do?
Guest:Just kind of showed up?
Guest:I played a heavy.
Guest:What were your first film roles for you?
Guest:Oh, gosh.
Guest:I had a little part in about last night.
Guest:I was up for one of the bigger parts, and then I got a small part, but I had to kiss Rob Lowe in one scene, and so that is an ongoing source of levity because Rob is on Parks and Rec now with Nick, and...
Guest:he kissed me i did not understand because back in the day like i just saw a brief moment of um what's that tom cruise movie where he's a fighter pilot or he's a pilot top gun yeah okay so i just saw a short scene where he and kelly mcgillis are kissing and it's like the most intense like open mouth like french kissing imaginable
Guest:So it was in that era, like people were doing that.
Guest:So I thought that's how you did it.
Guest:And I had a scene where I was supposed to kiss Rob.
Guest:And so on the first take, I did that.
Marc:You just opened your mouth.
Guest:I didn't even know him.
Guest:I didn't even know if we'd met.
Guest:And then there was just like this crazy, like you could hear a pin drop silence.
Guest:Did he freak out?
Guest:And the director came over and whispered in my ear.
Guest:And he was like, about 80% less than the kissing.
Marc:Well, I think it's telling that we now know that both Tom and Kelly were overcompensating, so it was not a strategic thing on their part.
Marc:It wasn't a cultural change in the movies.
Marc:It was more like, we've got to make this look genuine.
Marc:So, okay, so let's go with you, Nick.
Marc:Now, we've got the ballet and the movement towards show business, and for some reason, I picture you just fighting it out and sweating with a bunch of men trying to put sets together and yelling at audiences.
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:I mean, my theater company was comprised of a bunch of country folk from central Illinois.
Guest:Is that where you're from?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you grow up country folk-ish?
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Guest:Pig farm?
Guest:My grandpa had pigs and his two sons, I grew up working on their farm and they had corn and soybeans and my uncles still do.
Guest:But the pig barn was condemned when I was in high school.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It was too old.
Guest:It had to be... Oh, the building was condemned.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whatever was going on inside.
Guest:No.
Guest:That's got to be stopped.
Guest:It had to be burned down by the fire department.
Guest:It was quite... So that was the end of the pig business for your family?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was...
Guest:the moment they got out of pigs we uh we stuck with grain yeah after that um i don't know i i recently uh some video some eight millimeter footage was unearthed of me at about age 12 at our fishing cabin in minnesota uh where i'm dancing about pointing at myself yeah just in the truest essence of i need someone's attention um
Guest:And my family just thinks it's hilarious in the movie.
Guest:They just think I'm a laugh riot.
Guest:And I'm just dancing about.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:Pointing at myself.
Guest:He hadn't quite made the connection yet that show business might be the answer to this need.
Guest:That that would be his life.
Guest:He just had the need.
Guest:It was just very raw.
Guest:Sorry about the heat.
Guest:Oh, that's okay.
Guest:I discovered you could study theater in college.
Guest:It was a very cultureless tiny town.
Guest:You went to a state school?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I went to Champaign.
Guest:What was the direction of choice when you started that?
Guest:Well, when I was choosing a college, that's when I discovered I met some theater students, and they said, yeah, we study acting and plays, and then we get paid to do it in Chicago.
Guest:And I said, this is an incredible revelation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I would like to do.
Guest:And you started pointing at yourself, dancing around.
Guest:What do you guys think?
Guest:Check this out.
Guest:And so it was a great epiphany for me because I was a good student, and I was good at sports, and I played the saxophone, but nothing caught my passion.
Guest:And once I found out you could study that for the first time in my life, I aced all my tests, and I desperately, voraciously consumed the material.
Guest:And and that, you know, that turned into we formed a company and we moved to Chicago and did really well.
Guest:You know, we were a very beloved, irreverent little theater company.
Marc:That's sort of Chicago sort of known for that, but it's hard for something like that to stick.
Marc:So it must have been pretty great because is it still around?
Guest:No, we put in 12 years.
Marc:I mean, that's a long run for a little theater company.
Guest:I got to see one production there.
Guest:Nick wasn't in it.
Guest:It was after he'd already moved to Los Angeles.
Guest:But it was really, really great.
Marc:Before you met him?
Guest:No, after.
Guest:After we met, we went to Chicago and saw one of their shows.
Guest:We saw a production of a sci-fi action movie in Space Prison.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was the name of the play.
Guest:Is it an original play?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:By a local guy?
Guest:It was our own creation.
Guest:We had a series of, the first one was action movie, the play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were really fun send-ups of action movies.
Guest:Was it mostly comedy?
Guest:No, right?
Guest:Those were a lot of comedy, but it was all... Very physical.
Guest:It was all really intense.
Guest:Either it was really intense comedy with a lot of crazy breaking down walls, or it was really intense like Pinner or Sam Shepard or Shakespeare, you know.
Marc:Now, were you modeling after anything?
Marc:I mean, did you go see Steppenwolf Theater company shows and that kind of stuff?
Guest:It was very different.
Guest:Yeah, we went to see, you know, they were the big, and still are, the sort of big only dog in town.
Guest:I ended up working there a lot as well.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Did you do any work with Tracy Letts?
Guest:Yeah, Tracy I hung out with a lot.
Guest:We were contemporaries.
Marc:Now, he's like, I saw his big play on Broadway.
Marc:I can never remember the title of it.
Guest:It's Prayer Time.
Guest:August Osage County.
Marc:Yeah, August Osage County.
Marc:And that's got that weird, dark, but almost comedic vibe to it.
Marc:Everything's very intense, and there's a lot of deep, horrible drama, but there's something hilariously dark about it.
Guest:That's set in Oklahoma, by the way.
Marc:Oklahoma's a hilariously dark place.
Marc:When I meet people from Oklahoma, I'm not judging because I haven't met that many people, but it's really one of those states where you're like, what's happening there?
Guest:I know.
Guest:That would be hard to answer.
Marc:But there's not a lot of people in Oklahoma, is there?
Guest:Um, not as, no.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I mean, Oklahoma City is a gigantic space area-wise, but the population is smaller than the... Did you have cowboys in your family?
Guest:No.
Marc:But you married one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Married a farmer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I do like country music and...
Marc:Well, you sing, too.
Marc:I mean, I watched you singing.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Where?
Marc:I watched your band.
Guest:You did?
Guest:On Ellen.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That wasn't very good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was your take on that performance?
Guest:That was my least favorite thing we've done that was televised.
Marc:Why?
Guest:um we couldn't hear it just oh the monitors were bad yeah we couldn't hear it was their first week of um shooting and so you know they're they hadn't ever i don't think they'd had like many live you know music things happening what's the name of the band again oh it's called supreme music program
Marc:And you just put together some dudes here?
Guest:Yeah, but, you know, we've been together for like 13 years, so... Was this the dream, though?
Marc:I mean, to be a rock girl?
Marc:You know, I just... Because sort of, what would you call it?
Guest:Kind of like... It's a mix of everything.
Guest:It's kind of more about the songs and the songwriting than it is about anything else, and so we... You know, I'm very particular about the songs that we do and how we do them, and...
Guest:We're playing, you know, we play around and we've played at some pretty good places like Lincoln Center or Kennedy Center or Seattle Symphony.
Guest:Really?
Guest:We just played in London last year.
Guest:Yeah, but, you know, we're going up to San Francisco weekend after next.
Guest:We're playing up there.
Guest:You know, we just do things here and there.
Guest:It's a money-losing proposition, for sure.
Marc:Well, music can be a lot of times.
Marc:But do you present it as, like, you know, Megan Mullally?
Guest:Yeah, I try to just keep the band, because a lot of people come expecting to see Karen Walker, like, sitting on a poof, drinking a martini.
Marc:Big gay following?
Guest:Yeah, especially I'm worried about San Francisco coming up.
Guest:Are you going to give it to them?
Guest:No.
Marc:None?
Marc:You're not going to... I can't do it.
Marc:No?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You're not going to pander to the gay crowd?
Guest:No, I can't.
Guest:I can't do that.
Guest:I get embarrassed and I feel stupid.
Marc:You're not even going to do the voice for a second?
Guest:No.
Guest:I forgot the voice.
Guest:Really?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:There's something we find interesting is that we have very similar theater backgrounds, even though Megan's involved in a lot more beautiful singing and looking beautiful.
Guest:But we find ourselves in this world of comedy folk that are all sketch and improv trained or stand-ups.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we're having such a great time getting to play with them and be amongst them
Guest:But that's one of the things that, you know, if we were comedians and you had this character, it would be much more likely that if you did a live show, you'd be like, oh, you want to see my hilarious character?
Guest:Yeah, let's do a little of this.
Guest:But because of where we come from, once you, you know, I'm not going to do Ron Swanson with my band.
Guest:I'm also not going to do Henry VIII, which I have also played, you know, and people loved.
Guest:Also, you're not going to be making tables as Ron Swanson.
Guest:Come on, do him, Henry VIII.
Guest:Well...
Marc:Not today, my dear.
Marc:But I mean, whether you're an actor or not, it seems that once you get, it's very difficult on television when you get known for a character.
Marc:And you won a couple Emmys, right?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:And some SAG Awards and stuff.
Guest:And that's all great.
Guest:And it was amazing.
Guest:Great writing and great experience.
Guest:But I've played so many different little character roles over the years.
Guest:But that's the one that I played for eight years straight.
Marc:And it's also, that means that you have millions of people that have created this relationship with that character.
Marc:I mean, some actors, it seems, if you look at television, they don't survive television.
Marc:Because you are so impounded into the mind of people as that person that they can't accept you in any other way.
Marc:So I think it's probably the smart thing to do if you're jamming, not to...
Marc:A band or two.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And it's just a band.
Guest:We don't do any, you know, I don't wear a spangly outfit or do any patter, you know.
Guest:It's not Liza.
Guest:It's just, it's kind of a, you know, pretty lo-fi band.
Guest:And we just do songs from like every genre of music and all different periods.
Marc:And people have a good time?
Guest:People do quite like it.
Guest:And the band has its own very devoted following, which is interesting, completely separate from anything else.
Marc:And who are they in general?
Marc:Can you generalize?
Guest:Mostly, I think, real music lovers because it's more of a, you know, most of the songs we do are pretty obscure.
Marc:And you also have a fiddle player, correct?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we have a fiddle player.
Marc:That means business.
Marc:You're not fucking around when you have a fiddle player.
Guest:Yeah, we have a pedal steel player.
Guest:Our pedal steel player actually plays tuba and bass and piano.
Guest:Everybody plays a lot of different instruments.
Marc:Are most of your roots country?
Guest:Well, I love country, yeah.
Guest:Who are your guys?
Guest:I love traditional and folk, but we do everything.
Guest:So we do blues, jazz, pop, rock.
Marc:Who are your country guys?
Marc:Who are the guys you like?
Guest:Who are the people I like?
Guest:George Jones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Willie Nelson.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We just saw Merle Haggard and Chris Christopherson.
Guest:Like last week?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was unbelievable.
Guest:One of the best concerts I've ever seen.
Guest:And Willie Nelson we once saw, too, and he was amazing.
Guest:They were, it was insane.
Guest:It was really deep.
Guest:I mean, Merle Haggard was much more of a showman and sort of a funny performer, like an amusing performer.
Guest:And every time Christopherson opened his mouth, I thought I was going to burst into tears.
Guest:He's just got this really poignant quality.
Guest:He wasn't trying to be poignant.
Marc:I think he's always been that guy who was always sort of the deep one of the country people.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:He's one of those dudes that's got like 15 songs as a career thing.
Marc:And they're also, it's like Leonard Cohen.
Marc:He's like the Leonard Cohen of country.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And their pedal steel player is 80.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was killing me.
Guest:I mean, he's amazing.
Guest:And their fiddle player was ridiculous.
Marc:Well, music is so amazing.
Marc:Because I even found this.
Marc:I'm not closeted about musicals' effect on me.
Marc:But when I was looking at your stuff, even the silly, and I hate to admit this,
Marc:all right but i'm gonna go even the silly like the tony awards opening when i see groups of people singing and dancing i get very emotional like there's something about all of that happening like i see something very vulnerable about singing as opposed to being a stand-up or an actor even if you're raw as you're acting it's still that but i guess there's something about singing to me that is just so vulnerable
Guest:Yeah, I do love it, and I feel fortunate that singing is something that, you know, I was always singing from the time I was little.
Guest:I knew every lyric to every song on the radio and could sing every song from the time I was about four or five.
Guest:So, yeah, I feel lucky because it is a big part of my sort of, my emotional life in a weird way.
Guest:But it's not something that I, you know...
Guest:make money off of?
Guest:I mean, if I had wanted to go down that road and try to be a pop star or something, or a country singer, I probably could have done that.
Guest:But I didn't want to just be limited to one thing.
Marc:And when you guys do, there's some difference between... I'm not saying I could have been a big pop star.
Guest:That sounds bad.
Guest:I'm saying I could have probably had a career just in music.
Guest:Could have been one of these people that tours around all the time and just plays gigs.
Guest:That's all I meant.
Guest:I didn't mean I'm a big superstar.
Marc:But the difference between theater... You could have been sure.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:But then you would have had to pander to the gay following.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You're going to have to let that happen.
Guest:And sing through that weird thing that makes your voice sound like a robot.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that thing that makes you in tune?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Auto-tune.
Guest:Auto-tune.
Guest:I like it.
Marc:But the excitement of doing theater for both of you, I have to assume, like, when you do TV, you can keep doing takes over and over again, and the audience is very trained, and it's a completely different animal.
Marc:I mean, in terms of being real actors, I mean, the juice of being in theater has got to be much better than television.
Guest:It is for sure.
Guest:I mean, the creative pay has never been equaled for me in TV or film because whether it's 40 people or a thousand people in the audience, they're all telling you immediately how they react to the medicine you're giving them.
Guest:Whether you're making them laugh or you're scaring the shit out of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's all happening right there.
Guest:It's organic.
Guest:Yeah, that's so much more delicious because there's no editor, there's no post-production.
Guest:No bailing either.
Guest:You do your bit and they say, we approve.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The show must go on.
Marc:And the feeling of holding an audience, like when theater audiences are so, because you know they're there for that experience.
Marc:It's actually, when I think about theater and you think about the place it played in ancient culture and even earlier on in this culture, that it's sort of pushed to the side now, but when you're actually in it, you're like, oh, this is why this is so good.
Guest:Well, and it's the only one of those formats where you can tell the story from point A to point B in an unbroken arc, you know, without somebody calling cut or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Probably my favorite thing that I've ever done was this little play that I did in 2009 called The Receptionist at the Odyssey Theater, 99 seats.
Marc:Here.
Guest:Yeah, it was just the most satisfying experience.
Guest:I was obsessed with the play and the character and the cast and the director.
Guest:It was just an incredible, I don't know, it was just...
Guest:of a lifetime that was it yeah i mean i really just loved playing that character what was the character she was a receptionist at a undisclosed office space in new jersey and she's from like newark and she's older and she's not uh she's got like a a good humor but um she's physically not doing as well and
Guest:And the play takes a big twist halfway through.
Guest:It's a short one-to-one act.
Guest:Takes a big twist, and then she kind of gets in some trouble at the end.
Guest:There's a lot of laughter in the beginning and some tears at the end.
Marc:And what made it so compelling?
Guest:I loved the writing.
Guest:The character never stops moving.
Guest:She's on the phone all the time, and she's doing stuff around the office.
Guest:She's always cleaning things, and she's like a germaphobe.
Guest:I loved the dialogue.
Guest:It's written very realistically where people cut each other off.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like Mamadi.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, I just felt some kind of weird affinity with the writing and the character.
Marc:And when you do, like this character, you both were sort of working actors for a long time, and this Parks and Rec thing is really starting to kind of define you.
Marc:You okay with that?
Guest:Well, if I had to trade seven to nine years of Ron Swanson for never getting another role again, I would happily make that trade, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm so thankful that it's not some...
Guest:bullshit doctor on like a procedural.
Guest:I'm stuck doing that for nine years.
Guest:It's a show that we would be huge fans of if I wasn't on it.
Guest:And that's super lucky.
Guest:And there's all these weird his the sort of like trajectory that Nick is on right now is kind of almost exactly mirroring the one that I
Guest:went through and he went through that period with me and he saw it all happen and he went with me like to all the things and so it's just really cool that it's happening at this in the same timing and at the same ages because I'm older than Nick so when Will and Grace started I was 39 and he was 39 when he started Parks and Rec and it's just kind of an interesting so he's sitting there going you're right on schedule honey
Marc:This is exactly how it happens.
Marc:Our plan is working.
Guest:Isn't that so weird?
Guest:I mean, what are the chances of that happening?
Guest:It's all rare.
Marc:Thank God it happened.
Marc:Because the other trajectory is that he keeps getting bit parts and progressively more unhappy with his life.
Guest:I have to say about Nick, though, that all during the nine years before, the nine years that we were together in our relationship, but before Parks and Rec started,
Guest:He never exhibited any of those annoying actor qualities.
Marc:Can you make a list, please?
Marc:Because I think they'd be helpful to my listeners.
Marc:You know... Complete selfishness.
Guest:Throwing yourself down on the floor and proclaiming that... It's over.
Guest:It's over.
Guest:That never happened.
Guest:Was it happening in your mind, Nick?
Guest:No, I mean, that was a big part of what my furniture shop was about.
Guest:When I got to town, I had a really happy life in Chicago, building scenery, choreographing sword fights, and acting in plays.
Guest:And when I got to L.A., it came as a surprise that I couldn't have the same life here, I didn't realize.
Marc:Not much calling for sword fighting?
Guest:Not much, yeah.
Guest:There's guys in the union that do that?
Guest:Exactly.
Yeah.
Guest:And so I immediately saw how depressing and what a trap a young actor's life could be here.
Guest:And I said, okay, I've got to find something to turn to so I don't exhibit those actor traits.
Marc:So you made a conscious choice, but you didn't seem to have it in you to begin with.
Guest:He's not like that.
Guest:He's not that kind of person.
Marc:Why do you think that is?
Marc:I mean, the Midwestern background?
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I mean, my family is really well-adjusted.
Guest:They're just really salt-of-the-earth kind of people.
Guest:Yeah, they are.
Guest:And so I never get upset about things.
Guest:I maintain my calm.
Guest:He's got so much equanimity, and he's really comfortable with who he is, and he knows who he is.
Marc:Well, that would be it right there.
Marc:So you don't have any missing pieces that you're looking to find through show business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So your approach to it was always kind of like any work is good work, and I seem to be making a go at this, and if I'm upset, I've got to go make a table, honey.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah i never um i always had faith uh i i had good luck where once or twice a year something would happen to sort of tell me to stick around the dream yeah yeah and um you know i did a lot of theater here in town we met in a little theater company and that you know if if i'm never able to be cast again after ron swanson
Guest:I'll just do plays.
Guest:I mean, you know, it's... That's how you met in a play?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In 2000, on this theater company called The Evidence Room that was on Beverly near Alvarado.
Guest:And the company still exists, but we lost our space, but we still do.
Guest:Like that play that I was talking about that I loved was directed by this guy, Bart DeLorenzo, who's the artistic director of that theater company.
Guest:But, yeah, we met there, and we just, you know, he was the only one who talked to me on the first day.
Guest:We, like, read through the script.
Marc:And you were a star already?
Guest:I was.
Marc:It was two years in.
Guest:It was two years in, yeah.
Guest:And so it was on the hiatus after our second season.
Guest:And I don't know why nobody talked to me except that maybe they thought I was going to, they were going to, like, ignore me before I could ignore them or something.
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, of course, I didn't want to ignore anybody.
Guest:But he came up, and he was the only one who shook my hand and said, oh, wow, this is going to be really fun.
Guest:You're pretty funny.
Guest:And then we had a bunch of scenes together, and I started thinking that he was pretty funny.
Guest:And then I started thinking, is he sexy?
Guest:What's happening?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And he decided to play it.
Marc:Start with funny.
Marc:I give him funny first.
Guest:Yeah, and he had asked me out.
Guest:He had called.
Guest:I had put my fax number on the cast list because I didn't, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, maybe I was snobby because I put my fax number on there.
Guest:But he had left.
Marc:Fax number.
Guest:Yeah, this is, you know, in 2000.
Marc:So you thought, like, I'm not going to take any calls, but if somebody wants to.
Guest:It had an answer.
Guest:You know, it was like a regular phone.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:But I didn't check it as often.
Guest:And so he had called that number and asked me out on a date.
Guest:But I didn't get the message until, like, two weeks later.
Guest:So for two weeks, he had thought I was just totally icing him.
Marc:Oh, but when you called, you didn't get the...
Guest:No, you didn't get that.
Guest:It was like a regular answering machine.
Guest:And then he had asked me also to go see a country band, which was interesting.
Guest:Good move, country band.
Guest:And I think that was just an accident, because you didn't know at that time that I... No, but... Did you know?
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Pretty early on, I knew you liked singing Tom Waits, because you played me some in your car.
Guest:Oh, you're playing weights in the car.
Guest:And also, you sang In the Gloaming to me.
Guest:I did do that.
Guest:In a whispery voice in my ear.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:That was it, right?
Guest:The end.
Guest:That was a little calculated.
Guest:Yeah, and then...
Guest:I mean, I wouldn't have figured, though.
Guest:He also was nice to my dog, and he was the only one who paid attention to my dog.
Guest:And that was a big... I never even mentioned that to you.
Guest:But I had this... You had a dog test?
Guest:I had a new dog who we still have.
Guest:She's our dog now.
Guest:She's our dog now.
Guest:And he was the only one who really, like, played with her and paid attention to her.
Guest:And I thought, hmm, the father to my children.
Marc:And that's how it all happened, huh?
Yeah.
Marc:Now, you tell me you didn't do any sketch before you got out here in Chicago.
Marc:How is that possible?
Guest:No improv?
Guest:Well, the crazy thing is I even knew Amy.
Guest:Polar?
Guest:Yeah, when she was at Second City.
Guest:But they were all in New York.
Guest:The worlds are so disparate.
Guest:In Chicago?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Between theater and the clowns?
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Was there an attitude like that?
Guest:There is.
Guest:I mean, we had a couple friends that crossed the line that played both sides of the fence, and there was a disdain to it where you'd be like, hey, we have a part for you in this John Guerra play.
Guest:And you'd be like, oh, I'm doing a sketch show at ImprovOlympic.
Guest:And we would say, so you're what?
Guest:You're making shit up in a bar in front of people?
Guest:We're doing theater here.
Guest:We're changing the world.
Guest:And only once I got here and kind of befriended everybody and started going to these comedy theaters, I was like, oh, what a legitimate genre that I completely just missed out on.
Guest:Yeah, it's been a huge sea change for Nick and I because we both were just sort of like journeyman actors.
Guest:And then all of a sudden now...
Guest:All of our friends are people who have either a stand up or like full on sketch comedy background.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or improv background.
Guest:So it's changed everything for us.
Guest:And those are those are now the people that I mean, I feel like the comedy community out here is amazing.
Guest:And I don't think there's anything like it anywhere else.
Guest:Because, you know, it's so far reaching and there are so many, you know, different little branches of it.
Guest:But everybody seems to sort of know everybody else and everybody gives each other jobs and everybody is supportive of each other's work.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you just don't find that in other aspects of the business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm sure there's some other cliques of the same.
Marc:But, you know, it seems like you're dealing with the healthier comedy people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But there's bitterness available, believe me.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:We could find the pockets of toot.
Marc:So both of your characters are such deep, comedic characters.
Marc:I mean, the one Karen was, like, you know, made some serious choices.
Marc:You knew it was funny there.
Marc:You just had it instinctively.
Guest:I tried to just follow my instincts because I thought, well, if I think it's funny, then let me try it.
Marc:And then the audience is there and you got laughs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was a weird point where they didn't write.
Guest:They didn't really write as much for my character because I was the second, you know, third, fourth banana.
Guest:And.
Guest:At a certain point, like several episodes, many, you know, maybe halfway through the first season or something, I made an entrance, my first entrance in that episode, and the studio audience started like screaming and clapping.
Marc:Oh, you were the breakout hit?
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, it was just quite a shock.
Guest:to me and I think everyone else, you know, working on the show.
Guest:But that was, from then on, that kind of thing would happen.
Guest:The character just sort of, people responded to that character, and I'm not even sure why, but... You pulled, you went Kramer on him.
Guest:You did the entrance.
Guest:That's where it starts.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, right, yeah.
Guest:But I wasn't doing, like, a crazy entrance.
Guest:I just was simply opening the door.
Guest:But, you know, yeah, I don't know what that was, but it did happen.
Marc:And with Swanson, this guy, he seems to be the kind of, he seems to almost ground the show.
Marc:I mean, there's an amazing cast here.
Marc:I'm not taking anything away from anyone else.
Marc:But what you can do with a series of looks is a rare thing in comedy acting.
Marc:And are you conscious of that?
Guest:I suppose I am.
Guest:I mean, something that I think attracted Megan and I to each other is that we both have often been considered weird in the choices that we've made over our careers.
Guest:generally people are like, you guys are weird.
Guest:Like, you're not coming in here and acting like people are supposed to.
Guest:We always make sort of out-of-the-box choices.
Guest:And for a lot of my life, I've been told, like, everything I do with Ron Swanson has been a problem.
Guest:Even famously in our house, I would test for NBC pilots over the years, and they would say, no, you talk too slow, you're too intense and scary and weird, and
Guest:And then eventually they were like, we found this guy.
Guest:He talks too slow.
Guest:He's too intense and weird.
Guest:We're geniuses.
Guest:So, yeah, I am... Same thing happened to me, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Like, what'd they say about you?
Guest:Well, I would go in with these really crazy characters, you know, and people would just look at me like they look a little... I had actual times where I...
Guest:went in and auditioned for some part on a sitcom, and they were like, okay, well, thank you very much for coming in.
Guest:And the door would close behind me, and I would hear them break out into nervous laughter.
Guest:That's the worst.
Guest:Like they had narrowly avoided some kind of incident with the crazy woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Guest:And then, of course, Will and Grace, I thought, okay, don't do a weird voice.
Guest:Don't do all that shit at the beginning because you'll get fired.
Guest:So I kind of like that high voice kind of came.
Guest:I kind of threaded it in over the course of time.
Marc:Now, did you have any sort of precedence in your head in being in a comedy ensemble on a show like that?
Marc:That kind of...
Marc:said, like, well, this character... Because, like, it seems to me that, like, on television and ensemble casts that, you know, you get almost like a Comedia Della Arte thing, that there's people that play certain types.
Marc:Did you have anything in your mind?
Guest:Not really, no.
Guest:You know, even though...
Guest:it's I guess notable that neither of us come from any sort of comedy training when you're in the theater you do a lot of comedy I mean a lot of yeah hilarious comedy and we both love performing comedy and so we certainly had an idea of what was funny
Guest:And I had no precedent going into this.
Guest:I think that Mike Schur has talked about, our show creator, has talked about Cheers.
Guest:And with my character and Amy's, he's talked about Lou Grant and Mary Tyler Moore.
Guest:But I think it's sort of an amalgam for him.
Guest:I don't have a great wealth of popular culture knowledge.
Guest:I haven't seen a lot of TV.
Guest:And so my precedent would be stern, overbearing, authoritarian, and bubbly, effervescent, ambitious deputy.
Marc:Now, does most of the comedy, when you play it, when you have a script, I mean, this character seems... Because I can never get an answer or quite figure it out on my own that when comedians or comic actors... I mean, you're playing it straight on some level.
Marc:I mean, the character has to be earnest.
Marc:It has to be...
Guest:For me, I play comedy as if it were drama.
Guest:That's what makes it funnier.
Guest:But it's just more exaggerated.
Guest:It's like when you're happy, you're the happiest.
Guest:And when you're sad, you're the saddest.
Marc:And that's a conscious choice.
Guest:That's what makes it, to me, funnier.
Marc:And outside of that, it's the script.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because because like I'm always because you seem to be now when I sit with you, it's different.
Marc:But I mean, there's rare people that that character that you're playing now, it almost seems that he cannot not be funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That there's just something about the being of that guy that there's never going to be a moment where you're like, oh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's happened?
Marc:He seems upset because even that's funny.
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:I hope you're right.
Guest:I am right.
Marc:But I just don't know if that's an intentional thing or it's just a commitment to character.
Marc:I just don't know how somebody is constantly funny.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I can only attribute that to Greg Daniels and Mike Schur.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For coming up with this character and I happened to come around and they were like, oh, this guy's flavor with this genius idea we have could really work.
Guest:But, you know, they are geniuses and I can make funny faces.
Guest:And I try to keep that in mind.
Guest:You're underselling yourself.
Guest:But, you know, Nick has the most unbelievably rabid online fan following that I've ever.
Guest:I mean, I don't know because I guess we don't follow everybody else online.
Guest:But, oh, my God.
Guest:I mean, just every blogger and everybody who's so slavishly devoted.
Guest:What's the feedback?
Guest:I mean, what is it that they.
Guest:Fan art and all that.
Guest:The weird thing is, I think it's worth mentioning that we're sort of purposefully Luddites.
Guest:We got our first computer in 2003, and to this day we share one original email address.
Guest:And as social networking, as all that has developed, we've just eschewed it because we don't want to...
Guest:We don't have enough time to spend with our friends as it is.
Guest:You don't want to be slaves to it.
Guest:Just answering emails is a huge drag.
Guest:Diminish your being.
Guest:On our show, I'm very aware that Aziz, as part of his stand-up career, really works through Twitter and Facebook, and it's a big part of his business.
Guest:And so I think somebody like Aziz or Corddry has a major sort of following that
Guest:And what's going on with Rod Swanson seems different in that he sort of specifically seems to inspire weird outsider art pieces.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Which is really fun.
Guest:So I'm really elaborate.
Guest:Yeah, I get things like that, too.
Marc:That weird mosaic.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:And I get, like, yeah, I don't know what.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Isn't that wild?
Marc:The woman made a mosaic of me.
Guest:I think you're better looking than that mosaic.
Marc:I do love it.
Marc:Mosaic's not a very forgiving art form.
Guest:It definitely adds to about 10 pounds or so.
Marc:In rocks.
Marc:But I don't quite know what... All I've come to believe is that I'm happy that it's inspiring people.
Guest:Yeah, that's what it comes down to is I'm really glad that my work is getting to an audience and they're enjoying it.
Marc:Do you feel like they're appreciating you for you or that Swanson has taken on this life of his own?
Marc:Has he come to represent something?
Guest:I think in the sort of superficial world of TV, most of the audience would probably say, no, it's all about Ron Swanson.
Guest:It's all about Superman, Clark Kent, whatever.
Guest:But I can still feel very satisfied because without me, I can know that Ron Swanson... I'm sure that you could probably be a pretty...
Marc:menacing heavy if he wanted.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You remind me, you know Mike Chiklis?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, are you guys friends?
Guest:No, I've never met him, but I really was upset when he got to play Ben Grimm in The Fantastic Four.
Guest:That was your role, right?
Guest:It's the only superhero with a big head.
Guest:So all these years, I was like, someday they're going to make The Fantastic Four, and I'm going to be the one saying, it's clobberin' time.
Guest:I'm sorry that didn't happen for you.
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, I was just going to say that something that we talk about a lot that's a big thing for us, a big change for us, is that up until just the last, like, maybe five years even, not even, four or five years, everything, you know, if you're an actor on television or even in film...
Guest:There was no improvisation.
Guest:It was not allowed.
Guest:I mean, back in the day, because I've lived here since 1985, so back in the day, if you changed one word, you were just summarily dismissed.
Guest:And now, it's like if you don't improvise every scene completely, then you're in trouble.
Guest:So it's completely changed, and I love it.
Guest:I mean, I love the fact that it's so much looser now, and it's more collaborative.
Guest:You get to do that?
Guest:Almost every job I've gotten since Will and Grace has been either completely improvised or strongly improvised or improvisation is encouraged.
Marc:And that happens on Parks and Rec?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I didn't realize that because I've talked to Amy and I got the feeling that a lot of it is pretty, you know...
Marc:It is.
Guest:I mean, the scripts are so good that we rarely need to improvise.
Guest:But usually at the end of every scene, we do what's called a fun run.
Guest:And we've learned to choose your moments.
Guest:Like when you have a talking head where it's just you talking to the camera.
Guest:And so you have a paragraph of like, here's eight things I don't like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They always give you eight amazing ones, but you can usually bring in three other ones.
Guest:Especially somebody like Amy, you know, can pull 20 out of her fanny.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so it's really... Greg Daniels has this great rule that on day one he told us all...
Guest:it's really important that anything you feel like you want to do or say at any moment, you can.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:And by giving us that freedom that you can't screw it up if you get the words wrong or something, I think it really helps with the creativity of the show because there's usually one or two moments in every episode where somebody just was like, oh, my God, at the end of the scene, if I break this coffee cup on my face...
Guest:And that's Chris Pratt, and he's right.
Guest:It's the funniest thing in the world.
Marc:And so there's a lot of elements of surprise on there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Can you think of one that was completely mind-blowing?
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, Pratt always gets me the worst.
Guest:There was one scene that he wasn't even in.
Guest:Amy and Rashida were in Amy's office, and everybody has the flu.
Guest:And Rashida's a nurse, and she's telling Leslie, the character, you've got to go to the doctor, you've got to go to the hospital and get a flu shot.
Guest:And Amy's in denial.
Guest:She's like, no, I've got to take care of all this parks business.
Guest:I'm not sick.
Guest:And as she went rushing out through the bullpen area, Pratt was sitting at Aubrey's computer and he just said to her in passing, Leslie, I typed your symptoms into the computer and it says you have network connectivity problems.
Guest:And it was the funniest thing in the episode.
Guest:And Pratt just, you know, he just thought of it.
Guest:And they always keep rolling.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it got in.
Guest:But we've also learned that the writing is so good that it's all we can do to cram the script into a 22 and a half minute episode.
Guest:That was the same on Party Down.
Guest:We would do a lot of improvisation, but then they would end up sticking pretty close to the scripts.
Guest:Because the scripts were...
Guest:Part of it on that show is they just had a really fast turnaround, so they didn't have time to reconfigure the story.
Marc:I'm so sad that that show didn't.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I know, but we might be doing a movie this summer.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah, so that's exciting.
Marc:That's really exciting.
Marc:Now, when you guys work together on Parks and Rec, do you improvise?
Guest:yeah oh yeah well we have to do a lot of improvisation because we have to do a lot of physical improvisation yeah we have to do a lot of disturbing like make out techniques and things so but we destroyed a diner in burbank we literally i threw megan on the diner a booth table to have sex and we ripped it out and then i tore the table off the wall with me still on top of it
Guest:And then like that very first scene, the very first scene that I ever shot on Parks was where we come screeching right after that in the story.
Guest:We ran out to his car, his crazy, weird sports car.
Guest:And we screech into the parking lot of a motel.
Guest:And I decided right as we were pulling up, I said, I'm going to take my shirt off.
Guest:So I.
Guest:It was six in the morning on Monday and I hadn't met anybody yet.
Guest:And I threw my bra out the car window as we're pulling in.
Guest:And then as we were running in, I pulled off my sweater and they left it in.
Guest:They just like put a big dot over my boot.
Yeah.
Guest:And then the director came up and said, hi, I'm so-and-so.
Guest:I'm Troy Miller.
Guest:And that was pretty interesting.
Guest:The crew is just crazy about Megan ever since that scene.
Guest:I can't understand that.
Guest:That's weird.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:It's the power of the boob.
Marc:They love when she walks through the door.
Marc:That's bizarre.
Marc:So, Megan, what do you got?
Marc:What's going on right now?
Guest:Oh, I'm doing Children's Hospital.
Marc:You both did, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I got Cordray in here.
Marc:That's a great show.
Guest:Yeah, I've been a regular on that since the beginning.
Guest:And Nick was a regular when we did it as a web series, but he's only able to do like one or two episodes a year now because of...
Marc:That's so awesome that you're doing that, that you had this sort of mainstream sitcom success, and now you're both sort of deeply ingrained in the weird alt-comedy sketch bizarro world.
Marc:I agree.
Guest:The weirder the better.
Guest:And we've both actually done a few movies recently, and we've been in three of them together, but not in scenes together.
Guest:We just happened to be cast in the same movie.
Marc:Is that a deal that you make now?
Marc:Where it's like, I ain't doing it if she ain't doing it.
Guest:We are kind of turning into the Lent and Fontan of comedy actors.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Guest:It is really good, yeah.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:It's really fun.
Marc:Well, I really appreciate you guys coming.
Marc:It was great talking to you.
Guest:Oh, thanks so much, Mark.
Guest:Thank you for having us.
Guest:You bet.
Marc:Now, do we do the threesome now?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Go.
Marc:Love in the Garage.
Marc:Megan Mullally, Nick Offerman, what a great talk that was.
Marc:Love.
Marc:I'm going to ride the vibe of their connection and just try to be okay with it.
Marc:Me.
Marc:My own love.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:My schedule is there.
Marc:See you at Acme in Minneapolis this weekend.
Marc:Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Gilda Fest the following weekend.
Marc:You can also get on my mailing list.
Marc:You can get the app.
Marc:You can go to the WTF Premium on iTunes and pick some a la carte episodes you might need.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Kick in a few shekels.
Marc:If you get the WTF blend, I get a little on the back end.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Thank you so much.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:God, I wish this air conditioner were better out here.
you