Episode 256 - Diablo Cody
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
What the fuck?
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck, Knicks?
Marc:What the fuckables?
Marc:What the fuck, Lahomans?
Marc:What the fuck, Ericans?
Marc:All right, that's enough.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:It's exciting to be here.
Marc:It's nice out today.
Marc:I'm recording this during the day.
Marc:It's beautiful, and I'm trying to appreciate that.
Marc:I've wandered around my small piece of property for several minutes, just appreciating the day.
Marc:Have you done that?
Marc:First off, before I forget, got a correction.
Marc:I don't usually make corrections because I'm not in that business.
Marc:There's no need to make corrections unless I do a date wrong.
Marc:But for those of you who listened to the last show and listened to my monologue, I
Marc:I spoke about a wooing girl in Oklahoma.
Marc:That wooing girl existed, but it turns out it was not the same girl that had a audible sort of argument with her boyfriend because of another man in the audience that hit on her while her boyfriend was out doing whatever in the lobby.
Marc:That was a different situation.
Marc:She was not the wooer.
Marc:Her name's Amanda and she's a fan and she wanted me to set that straight.
Marc:Apparently the wooing girl was drunk
Marc:and was basically fucking her boyfriend in the audience and making noises like woos, and they left just before I got on.
Marc:So I just want to set the record straight on that.
Marc:Because Amanda does not want to be hung with the Scarlet W as she walks the streets of Oklahoma City.
Marc:She does not want to be recognized and shamed as a wooer when she was not the wooer.
Marc:That said, on the show today, Diablo Cody, in just a few minutes, we'll get into that.
Marc:Can I get into a couple other things, please?
Marc:The Oscars are coming up.
Marc:I'd like to address that for a moment.
Marc:But I'd also like to address my schedule because I don't think I do it enough.
Marc:I will be in Vancouver this weekend, Friday, February 23rd.
Marc:I will be live at the Comedy Mix February 24th.
Marc:I will be doing a live WTF with Bob Odenkirk and David Cross and Neil Brennan, John Ennis.
Marc:And Josie Long, that's who.
Marc:It should be a good one.
Marc:You know, I love Bob and Dave.
Marc:I've never met Josie, but I like her stuff.
Marc:I've known John Ennis forever.
Marc:And Neil Brennan and I have issues.
Marc:that will be discussed along with his amazing achievements in comedy more schedule please can we do the schedule please it's important for people who live in these places i will be at the south beach comedy festival in miami beach florida that situation i will be at the colony theater it's an eight o'clock show you can go to uh to ticket master or south beach comedy festival look that up online find tickets for that
Marc:March 8th through 10th, I'm returning to the Acme Comedy Club in Minneapolis after a 10 or 11 year hiatus.
Marc:Couldn't be more excited.
Marc:Go check that out.
Marc:If you're in that area, get tickets to that March 8th through 10th.
Marc:Then March 11th, I'll be at South by Southwest doing a Sunday afternoon podcast live with Jeffrey Tambor.
Marc:That's March 11th.
Marc:I have no idea how you get into that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's on you.
Marc:Check it out.
Marc:You need a pass.
Marc:Sometimes they let people who are fans.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's a clusterfuck, but I'll be doing that at Esther's Follies.
Marc:And then on March 15th and 17th, we'll be at the Gilda's Laugh Fest in Grand Rapids.
Marc:On the 15th, I'll be doing a standup show.
Marc:And on the 17th, I'll be doing a live WTF.
Marc:With Tommy Johnigan, Alan Zweibel, Kevin Neeland, and Drew Hastings, I'm hoping.
Marc:Maybe Jim Gaffigan.
Marc:That's enough for now.
Marc:Can we do that?
Marc:Can that be enough for now?
Marc:Can I close this window?
Marc:I don't know how to handle all these windows.
Marc:What else?
Marc:is there like the dates are out of the way oscars let's talk oscars i think i'm old school in that apparently my brain only wanted to see five of the oscar movies i believe i saw five of them i don't know why i can't watch the artist i don't know why i have it it's in my house i got a screener can't put it in the machine don't know what's stopping me i i just don't know why i want to see some movies and why i don't want to see others i mean the artist it should be fun it's black and white it's a
Marc:silent movie there's a dog in it a lot of people love it a lot of people think uh it's pretentious it's french i don't i'm not judging that but i just i have not found it within me to put it into my dvd player so i can't comment on that movie yet i was able to put the help in because i thought i would squirt out a few tears learn a little something not a great movie
Marc:Some great acting in it.
Marc:Had some heart to it.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:A lot of things got away from that movie, but some great acting in it.
Marc:So I don't think that's going to be best picture.
Marc:I'm going to say the artist isn't because I didn't see it.
Marc:The Descendants.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:I don't care what anybody says.
Marc:I like George Clooney.
Marc:Like movie stars.
Marc:Thought he did a great job.
Marc:Loved the story.
Marc:Loved that the central character of the film was in a coma.
Marc:I thought that was genius.
Marc:I thought the backdrop of the history of the Hawaiian Islands and the legacy of the Hawaiian Islands was in the movie as you had this personal tragic story played against this weird...
Marc:historical legacy of colonization.
Marc:I just liked it.
Marc:And I know that's a testament to the book, which I didn't read.
Marc:I like Alexander Payne's dark humor sensibility.
Marc:Extremely Loud, Incredibly Close is extremely close to me right now because I have a screener that I did not watch yet because Jessica does not want to watch it.
Marc:She doesn't like upsetting things.
Marc:But the trailer looks compelling.
Marc:I don't know if I were to award it on the trailer.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I can't speak to that movie.
Marc:Hugo did not see here.
Marc:It's enjoyable.
Marc:Midnight in Paris.
Marc:Loved it.
Marc:So it's hard for Woody Allen to make movies where he obviously writes himself into the movie and then has someone else play.
Marc:There's been very few people that have been able to play the Woody Allen role and not act like Woody Allen.
Marc:Owen Wilson did that.
Marc:That's a tremendous feat.
Marc:And I thought that the way he captured that period in Paris was
Marc:The expatriate period, the period of jazz and literature and art.
Marc:I thought it was some of the best shooting I'd seen cinematography wise.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:I thought Owen Wilson was spectacular.
Marc:Moneyball.
Marc:Liked it.
Marc:Don't like baseball.
Marc:Not that I don't like it.
Marc:Just don't follow baseball.
Marc:Still like the movie.
Marc:Jonah Hill was great.
Marc:I'm a big Jonah Hill fan.
Marc:The Tree of Life.
Marc:It looks like it would move me, but I wouldn't understand why.
Marc:Have not seen it.
Marc:Didn't get a screener.
Marc:I blame that on the studios.
Marc:War Horse, please.
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:And I actually watched that one because I had a screener and my family wanted to see it when I was visiting them.
Marc:Actor in a leading role.
Marc:Gary Oldman.
Marc:I enjoyed him.
Marc:Don't know if it's if it's the role, but that doesn't mean that he won't get it.
Marc:I think he's owed one.
Marc:Brad Pitt was good in Moneyball.
Marc:Don't know that he can can win this.
Marc:George Clooney was George Clooney.
Marc:But, you know, he he had some emotions and he was not as cute as usual.
Marc:Is that Oscar worthy?
Marc:A Clooney not being cute and having emotions?
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Didn't see the artist.
Marc:John DeHardin.
Marc:Don't know.
Marc:Damian Bashir a better life didn't see it don't know maybe Oldman will get it because he's one of those guys where they're gonna have to give him one and they usually give the great guys ones for movies that they're not necessarily great and though it was a very controlled performance actress in a leading role Glenn Close Albert Nobbs didn't see it but the the few seconds that I've had seen look very looks like she did a good job at being a man is that she's a man right
Marc:Viola Davis, she was very good in The Help.
Marc:Probably the best thing in it, her and the other lady.
Marc:Rooney Mara, didn't see Girl with a Dragon Tattoo, though the eyebrow thing freaked me out.
Marc:I don't know, is that Oscar worthy, the shaving of the eyebrows?
Marc:Eh, maybe.
Marc:Meryl Streep, The Iron Lady, have it right inside.
Marc:Didn't watch it, don't know why, but of course she was great.
Marc:You can just tell she was great by people saying she was great.
Marc:It's Meryl Streep, what the fuck can't she do when it comes to acting?
Marc:I mean, are they going to give her another one?
Marc:Michelle Williams, My Week with Marilyn, like her, didn't see the movie.
Marc:Sorry, this is not a very efficient Oscar show.
Marc:Actor in a supporting role, Kenneth Branagh, did not see that movie.
Marc:Jonah Hill, liked him, would like to see him win.
Marc:Nick Nolte, he deserves an Oscar.
Marc:Didn't see Warrior, but I think Nick Nolte should get an Oscar just out of niceness.
Marc:Christopher Plummer, saw some parts of that movie, plays an elderly gay man.
Marc:He's a fine actor, maybe.
Marc:Max von Sydow,
Marc:Always good.
Marc:I'm sure he was great and extremely loud.
Marc:Incredible close.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's incredibly close to me in my living room.
Marc:Have not watched it.
Marc:Actress in a supporting role.
Marc:Didn't see the artist.
Marc:Don't.
Marc:Berenice.
Marc:Don't know.
Marc:Jessica Chastain.
Marc:She was great in The Help.
Marc:Melissa McCarthy.
Marc:Genius.
Marc:Genius in Bridesmaids.
Marc:Albert Knobs.
Marc:Janet McTeer.
Marc:Don't know.
Marc:The picture looks like she worked very hard.
Marc:Octavia Spencer was brilliant in The Help.
Marc:Loved her.
Marc:That's going to be a tough one.
Marc:That's going to be a tough one.
Marc:There's some good performances in the Best Supporting Actress role.
Marc:Directing.
Marc:The artist, The Descendants, Hugo, Midnight in Paris, The Tree of Life.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's probably going to be The Artist, right?
Marc:Tree of Life, Terrence Malick being Terrence Malick.
Marc:I'm sure there's a lot of close-ups, a lot of long shots of nature doing things.
Marc:I'm not condescending.
Marc:I think I've taken enough time on the Oscar thing.
Marc:I'm looking forward to watching them, even with Billy Crystal.
Marc:Look, I can't say that.
Marc:His friends listen.
Marc:I've had his friends on.
Marc:I've met the man.
Marc:He's fine.
Marc:He'll make it fun.
Marc:There'll be a dance number.
Marc:There'll be shtick.
Marc:He'll engage and do his Billy Crystal thing.
Marc:And that's that.
Marc:I mean, would you rather it be like last year?
Marc:I mean, Jesus, what the fuck happened there?
Marc:And I know a lot of you don't like to watch it.
Marc:I enjoy watching it for a little while.
Marc:We'll see what happens.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:Let's just get to Diablo Cody because that was a pleasant conversation.
Marc:I don't know that I provided any sort of Oscar.
Marc:I don't know what I did here.
Marc:Why am I doing this again?
Marc:Why am I talking to myself out loud?
Marc:I write over there.
Marc:I just set up that picture of Rodney Dangerfield that somebody gave me.
Guest:I like that picture.
Marc:Isn't it like deep?
Guest:It's a lot of negative space.
Guest:It's really deep.
Marc:Where?
Marc:On his face or around him?
Guest:No, around him.
Guest:On his face.
Marc:I would say that negative space would be a good title for that photograph.
Guest:Yeah, I think so, too.
Marc:The guy, some guy who shot some pictures of me said he had that and he'd taken a picture of Rodney.
Marc:Like, that's a few years before he died.
Marc:But I was like, oh, let me see it.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, my God, that's like the best comedy picture I've seen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Has anyone done like a portrait of comics coffee table book?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I imagine that's happened.
Marc:There have been a couple.
Marc:I think someone just did one recently, like a sort of UCB-centric new generation.
Marc:I know that they've took some pictures in here.
Marc:I don't know, do you buy coffee table books?
Guest:I want to be the kind of person that does.
Marc:Do you have any?
Marc:Because I have them.
Guest:I have some.
Marc:Do you ever look at them?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:I actually just got one.
Guest:Somebody gave me one for Christmas, and it was the vintage menus.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Starting from the 1920s.
Guest:It seems like the kind of thing you wouldn't have any use for, and I read it constantly.
Guest:I constantly flip through it.
Marc:Like it's just like from diners or from?
Guest:It's from everywhere from diners to like upscale supper clubs, like prohibition era places.
Guest:It's cool.
Marc:Like I, like cause sort of, sort of like time traveling.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of like time travel with vichyssois.
Marc:Yeah, so it's mostly, because sometimes they publish those recipes in the New York Times, like 1920.
Guest:That's what I like, and especially stuff that wouldn't be appetizing to a modern palate, like Waldorf salad.
Marc:It's always a Waldorf salad.
Guest:Strange things like that, yeah.
Marc:Do you watch the cooking channel at all or the Food Network?
Guest:I watch Anthony Bourdain.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's no longer a cooking show.
Marc:You don't get involved?
Guest:No, it's a travel show, I guess.
Marc:Yeah, no, I like him.
Marc:I had him on the show.
Guest:Did he sit in this chair?
Marc:No, he did not.
Marc:We were in a hotel room in Brooklyn, a Hasidic-owned hotel in Brooklyn that I had been put up at for some reason.
Marc:So it was sort of an adventure.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Do you want some points of reference for that chair?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Richard Lewis.
Guest:That's cool.
Marc:Russell Brandt.
Guest:I like Russell.
Marc:Ben Stiller.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Who else?
Marc:Everybody.
Marc:You name them.
Marc:They've sat in that chair.
Marc:Henry Rollins.
Marc:Does that do anything?
Guest:I feel like Ben Stiller and Henry Rollins with their muscular glutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm surprised the chair survived.
Marc:It didn't.
Marc:That's actually the second chair.
Guest:They broke the chair.
Marc:So you're Diablo Cody, but you're really Brooke.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:What's your last name?
Guest:My real name is Brooke.
Guest:My married name is Mario.
Marc:Brooke Mario.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But your original name is Brooke.
Guest:Busey, like Gary.
Marc:Like Gary Busey?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No relation?
Guest:I'm not, and it's funny.
Guest:When I was growing up, I was relieved that I wasn't related to him, and now I'm sad about it.
Marc:Now you kind of want to.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Just so you can be able to say, hey, cousin Gary, what's going on?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And like when I check in at the airport and stuff, you know, sometimes people say like, I bet I know who your dad is.
Guest:And it's like, I wish.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, because there'd just be no end to the entertaining phone calls.
Guest:It would be super entertaining.
Guest:And I feel like we both have these kind of, we both have kind of wolf eyes.
Guest:Like I could be his daughter.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:All you got to do is start talking about flying saucers and the plate in your head and you'd be all set.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I thought you don't come from Minneapolis.
Marc:You spent time with me.
Guest:No, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago.
Marc:Which suburb?
Guest:I lived in Lamont, which is kind of southwest by like Joliet.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:It's kind of a- Stone's throw away from the prison?
Guest:Yeah, it was right by the prison and by a refinery.
Guest:It was kind of just like a nowhere town.
Marc:Really?
Marc:But you had the prison and the refinery.
Guest:We did.
Guest:That we did.
Marc:So were there just local bars filled with prison officers and people?
Guest:Well, I wouldn't go that far, but it was an immigrant town and we were sort of weirdly isolated from the other suburbs because there's this canal and this extremely long bridge that you have to cross.
Guest:And so Lamanna is just kind of a strange place.
Marc:Which kind of immigrants?
Marc:Eastern European?
Marc:Polish, yeah.
Marc:Do you come from that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Weirdly enough, no, we were the only non-Polish family in Lamont.
Guest:But I mean, I grew up around Polish speakers and I feel like I'm by default one of them.
Marc:Complicated last names.
Marc:Oh my God, you have no idea.
Marc:A lot of pork dishes.
Guest:I went to school on the corner of Macie Gimba and Sobieski streets.
Marc:Sobieski Street.
Marc:Could you spell Sobieski?
Guest:S-O-B-I-E-S-K-I.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I get so baffled by Eastern European last names.
Marc:Like there's too many, you know, C-H-K's, T's.
Guest:See, it's like second nature to me.
Guest:I can read any.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because I grew up with them.
Guest:To me, that makes more sense than Smith.
Marc:Well, what's your background?
Marc:I mean, if it's not Polish and you were in that suburb, how'd you... My mom is Italian and my dad is like a mutt.
Marc:A mutt?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which kind?
Marc:English, French?
Guest:English mutt.
Guest:Like everything that sunburns.
Marc:What kind of work was he in?
Guest:My dad worked when I was a little kid.
Guest:We ran a family restaurant and then it went under and my dad started to work for the Illinois Tollway and he did that forever.
Guest:He just retired last year.
Marc:Was that a heartbreak?
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Guest:It was really hard on the family.
Marc:What kind of restaurant?
Guest:It was the kind of restaurant that would actually have, like, hipster cachet now.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like, have you ever been to the smoke?
Marc:Comfort food, like?
Guest:Yeah, have you ever been to the smokehouse in Burbank?
Marc:No, I should go.
Marc:What is it?
Guest:It was just like that.
Guest:It's like a supper club with live entertainment and, like, big food and very kitschy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, but it was the kind of thing that wasn't appealing.
Guest:Like, it did very well in the 60s and 70s, but when the 80s came around, people weren't interested in that kind of thing, so it just failed.
Marc:Oh, that's so sad.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:See, if you watch the Food Network, you would think, like, maybe Robert Irvine could have saved your restaurant on Restaurants Impossible.
Guest:It's that kind of thing, yeah.
Marc:He goes to restaurants that are struggling, and he turns them around on 10 grand and gives them new life.
Guest:That would have been amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, like, did you grow up, like, working in the restaurant?
Guest:Oh, it was that kind of childhood.
Guest:Like, we were at the restaurant every single day.
Guest:My brother and I basically grew up at the bar, and it was, like, the same group of barflies there every day.
Marc:So the old guys that smelled bad and smoked?
Guest:It was amazing.
Marc:Did they have names like Pete and Joe?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Their names were like slightly more ethnic, like Walt and that kind of thing.
Marc:So you grew up talking to barflies in a way.
Marc:And it was all accepted and safe and cool because your dad was there.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:My dad was just there with his adding machine all day, just kind of tapping away.
Marc:Tapping away, frustrated, sad, watching it all dwindle away.
Marc:Yeah, God.
Marc:But there was entertainment there as well?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We had an organist named Frank Pelico who had like an Italian afro.
Guest:And I think he plays organ for the Chicago Blackhawks now.
Guest:He's got to be like 90.
Guest:Really?
Marc:He's still around?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, he's an amazing organist.
Guest:And occasionally he would have this woman who sang with him who was kind of like this blousy broad.
Guest:Like that was my female role model.
Guest:I would just watch her and think, oh, I want to be that woman.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:How old were you when you were sitting there at the bar?
Guest:Like six or seven.
Marc:Oh, just wanting to be a burlesque performer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that was something that I looked at and thought, okay, this is the life for me.
Marc:I feel so bad for Frank now because I just picture this guy who's a great organist going... Yeah, that's his life now.
Marc:Oh, it turned out... He's probably doing better though.
Marc:He's probably making some money.
Guest:All I remember about Frank is we went to his house once and he had the clapper.
Guest:And I was like, all right, he plays the organ.
Guest:He has an afro.
Guest:He has the clapper.
Guest:Reforms with this lady.
Guest:Like Frank Pelico is the coolest man I like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:So he had to make it apparent that he had a clapper.
Marc:So this was this guy and he's like... Pretty much, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's kind of endearing.
Marc:And what'd your mom do?
Guest:My mom was a receptionist at a construction company for years.
Marc:It's like my grandfather worked in a hardware store and there's something about people with real jobs.
Marc:I don't know any anymore.
Guest:Nor do I. And it's actually really, I find it incredibly depressing and I talk about it all the time.
Guest:And I think it's hampering my ability to write because, and this happens to screenwriters all the time, where you move to Los Angeles and you completely lose touch with everything.
Guest:And suddenly it's like, oh, my new screenplay is about this guy who's a writer and he's dating an actress.
Guest:And it's like, oh, you have no more stories to tell.
Marc:And they're both really self-involved.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they don't really love each other, and they're just trying to pursue their careers, and then he has an affair with another actress.
Guest:And it's like, no one can relate to this but you.
Marc:But it's so weird.
Marc:Just growing up like you did, in that situation, in that town, I remember...
Marc:When I'd go to visit my grandfather, I mean, he had a hardware store and there were these old guys that would just hang around and it smelled different.
Marc:It smelled like real work.
Marc:There was grit around.
Marc:There's grease.
Marc:There's, you know, there are these guys that seem to have stories and histories and all those people are sort of invented now.
Marc:I mean, here, I mean, even in like, but for you in the, in the latest movie, it seems that, um,
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I mean, do you wander around gleaning dialogue from teenagers?
Guest:No.
Guest:Actually, there's a scene in the movie where the character Mavis, she does that.
Guest:I put that in there because when I was doing the press junket for Juno, I repeatedly had weirdo journalists ask me if I eavesdropped on teenagers to get the dialogue.
Marc:So it's like, of course, you've had that question before.
Guest:Yeah, and it's like, first of all, weird, no.
Guest:Secondly, I feel like the teenagers in Juno don't talk like actual teenagers, so I don't know who I would be eavesdropping on.
Guest:So I thought, but what if this character does do that?
Guest:There was something kind of tragic about that to me.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:It was very tragic.
Marc:And we don't have to talk about that movie just yet because there's still some backdrop.
Marc:Because I don't know.
Marc:I've seen Juno.
Marc:I've seen some of the terror series.
Marc:I definitely just watched Young Adult and I liked it.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:And I blew some smoke up Patton's ass.
Marc:Isn't he great?
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:But I go way back with him.
Marc:So it's very hard for me to be complimentary.
Marc:And I presented it.
Marc:I presented it as a real breakthrough for me to actually enjoy his work in a sort of selfless way.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:I said to my husband the other day, I said, do you think the like I know Patton has this, you know, he's he knows all the comedians.
Guest:And I said, do you think they're happy for him or angry?
Guest:It's this weird thing in the business where you love your friends.
Guest:And yet, like, it's really easy to become enraged by other people's success.
Marc:Well, that's because somehow or another, because what we do, maybe not what you do, but certainly, you know, as somebody in this business, it's very hard if you're not where you want to be, not to see someone else's success as some sort of attack on you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In some twisted, deep way.
Marc:It just means that you're not that.
Guest:Or you feel like that position has been filled.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but it's ridiculous because it's been filled by somebody who's not you.
Marc:So you've got to at some point cross over into that world where it's like, hey, you know, I'm not, you know, a short, you know, aggravated nerd guy.
Marc:You know, that's not my world.
Marc:You know, it gets worse when you find yourself actually envying, you know, other ethnicities, you know, where you're like, that was my part.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Are you a West Indian?
Marc:I don't think you could have that part.
Marc:But you took a lot of flack, though, and it seems like you still take a little flack.
Guest:That's probably true.
Guest:I probably deserve it though.
Marc:No, I don't know if that's true.
Marc:I'm just like, you know, going back in, I think the original wave of flack against Diablo Cody was that, was your integrity initially questioned when you wrote about stripping?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:I mean, this is a weird thing.
Guest:I actually have respect for people who can admit that they don't like me because they're phobic about sex work or they're phobic about a woman talking about stripping.
Guest:So at least there's honesty.
Guest:I don't like the people that are like, I just don't like Diablo Cody.
Guest:It has nothing to do with the stripping thing.
Guest:It's like, yes, it does.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know it does.
Marc:What about strippers who say, well, she really didn't surrender to stripping.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My God.
Guest:I don't think I'd be sitting here right now if I had.
Marc:You'd still be doing that and probably strung out and with some dude that hurt you.
Guest:No, I actually, I built an incredibly effective wall during that time.
Guest:Like I still actually can't believe it.
Guest:So I never allowed myself to become affected by it.
Guest:And to this day, I don't feel that I have any lasting damage whatsoever.
Marc:What compelled you towards it was more intellectual than it was necessity, wasn't it?
Guest:Yeah, I was incredibly curious.
Guest:This is the thing.
Guest:It's not just me.
Guest:A lot of women are incredibly curious about stripping or curious about how it feels to present yourself in that way and to violate that last taboo of you don't sell your sexuality.
Guest:If you do, you're a bad, damaged person.
Marc:Or also just to be naked in public.
Marc:To me, that's a big obstacle to cross over.
Guest:To me...
Guest:I don't understand why like if a guy is naked in public, it's comedy.
Guest:And if a woman's naked in public, it's tragedy.
Marc:Well, but it's only tragedy if you frame it that way because there's plenty of people that go to strip clubs and porn doesn't seem to be hurting in terms of people watching it.
Guest:Not at all.
Marc:It's sort of a double-edged thing.
Guest:I can't believe there are people who can go to strip clubs and watch porn and then condemn them.
Guest:If you're consuming it, you're not allowed to condemn it and you're not allowed to mock the women who participate because you're feeding it.
Marc:Right, but it's also a reflection of their own sad self.
Marc:yeah that's true you know i hate me make me feel better okay i'm done i hate you exactly that's it yeah yeah but uh but what when you were growing up i mean what was what was the nature of the childhood in terms of of sexuality and repression and all that you know i was raised catholic i mean real catholics super mass every morning does is there any part of you that thinks about hell now
Guest:Yeah, all the time.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I mean, I don't necessarily think about hell that much.
Guest:I definitely think about good and evil forces in a way that I'm not sure non-Catholics do.
Marc:And what's been some of the more recent evil ones that have come up?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Well, I mean, here's the thing.
Guest:One thing I'll never get rid of is being raised to believe that like temptation or succumbing to temptation is always wrong.
Guest:So if I have a pleasurable impulse and I succumb to it, there's always going to be a component of guilt.
Marc:Even if it's cake?
Marc:I mean, what's the range of these things?
Guest:Honestly, I think that is part of being Catholic.
Marc:So just the nature of temptation is troubling.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Even if it's something mundane.
Guest:Which is a shame.
Guest:It blows my mind that there are kids who are raised to believe that it's okay to feel good.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because that was just not my... And the thing is, my parents are actually awesome people.
Guest:Super, super kind, super supportive, super parents.
Guest:But the religion was a little weird.
Right.
Marc:But to what degree?
Marc:Do you have nuns in your past and all that?
Guest:Yeah, I was taught by nuns.
Marc:And were you hit by nuns?
Guest:I was not.
Guest:I think we actually had one abusive teacher at my school who was a dude who was not a nun.
Guest:I saw him hit kids, not me.
Marc:But you had an active vision of hell.
Marc:You were afraid of hell.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I went to confession like the first Wednesday of every month for my entire childhood.
Guest:And it was you had to confess everything wrong you had done that month or any sinful thought you had had.
Guest:And you had to be absolved.
Guest:And we were told that if you did not, your soul was blackening by the day and you were going to go to hell.
Marc:Now, when you confessed, I mean, did you make a notebook?
Marc:Did you keep a sin diary or did you have to sit there?
Marc:Because I can't even imagine what that's like because it's got to smell weird in there.
Guest:It's scary.
Guest:You have to go into, you know, we went into a dark confessional.
Guest:Priest didn't speak English.
Marc:Polish?
Guest:Yeah, Polish.
Guest:Father Bruno.
Marc:So he absolved you in Polish?
Marc:How could that not be hilarious?
Guest:I mean, when I look back on my childhood, it just cracks me up.
Marc:You didn't understand what you had to do?
Guest:There was two priests, and if you got the Polish priest, you had no idea what was going on.
Marc:So was that a thing?
Marc:Like, God, I hope I don't get the Polish guy.
Guest:No, everybody wanted the Polish guy because you could confess any sin you wanted, and he wouldn't know what you were saying.
Guest:People were excited.
Guest:The guy who spoke English was actually really rough.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, he would give you 20 Hail Marys or something, which is interminable for a child.
Marc:Oh, but did you ever, but did any of this stuff ever, because I always wondered this about Catholic upbringing.
Marc:I mean, did it actually resonate with you as a person?
Marc:Did you leave upset and feeling bad or did you leave like, oh, I got to say all these things?
Marc:I mean, was there actually, was the punishment just the repetition or did it actually affect you on a conscience level?
Guest:No, what it does is train you to be obsessive and compulsive because you have this belief that repeating rituals will somehow make everything better.
Guest:And sure enough, I developed full-blown OCD that had to be medicated by the time I was eight.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What were your things?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Well, I had the classic hand-washing compulsion.
Marc:Before eight?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And, you know, just counting and checking.
Guest:And it was just very time consuming.
Marc:And you think that's directly from.
Guest:There is no question about it.
Marc:That it comes from Hail Mary's repetition.
Guest:I think I really think that if you even if just the nature of Catholicism is repeating things.
Marc:Well, I think there's a hypnotic effect to all of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I think that obsession without any past spiritual system is some sort of weird replacement of it, that there's an attempt at control.
Marc:That by creating ritual, there's the illusion that you have some control over something.
Guest:It's weird, though.
Guest:Like, I actually am jealous of like I know people that were raised born again, which you might argue is like even more damaging.
Guest:But I'm like, oh, at least you were like yelling and passionate and into something.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As opposed to just being like, this is this is what we do.
Guest:We do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's the same with being a Jew, is that the religion itself is ancient and cryptic, and I don't know if it was in Polish or Latin or what kind of church you went to, but there's no way to possibly understand all the weird witchcraft that's going on in a Catholic church.
Marc:It's just like 2,000 years of bullshit that is sort of, everything is ornamented and ritualized and everything is magic.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:And old.
Guest:Super old.
Guest:Old and inaccessible.
Guest:It's just unbelievable how little it's changed over the years.
Marc:Yeah, and who's going to take the time?
Marc:Have you ever been to Europe?
Marc:I have.
Marc:And did you go to Italy?
Guest:I did.
Marc:And did you go into those cathedrals?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Marc:And were you blown away?
Marc:Because my first one, I went into a Catholic.
Marc:When you walk into a cathedral, the amount of money and artisanry that went into those things.
Marc:If you were just a peasant and you walked into one of those places, how are you not going to drop to your knees and go, oh my God?
Guest:No, my home church that I grew up in was an unbelievably elaborate, gorgeous cathedral.
Guest:So I was in that every day.
Marc:And that's like a mind fucking in and of itself.
Marc:I mean, this is a house of God.
Marc:Well, God must be pretty impressive to hire these architects and make this big a deal of things.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Was there the smoking orbs and everything?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The incense.
Guest:They only busted that out on like special days, though.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It wasn't a daily thing.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:I can't like it just it sort of blows me away that you seem pretty well adjusted.
Marc:Now, the stripping thing, then, what do you think any of that was sort of a fuck you?
Marc:How long did you really do it?
Guest:A year.
Marc:So, I mean, let's just be honest.
Marc:It was an experiment.
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:And you wanted to.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it was one.
Guest:I always say I've been alive for 33 years.
Guest:I stripped for one year.
Guest:And it's like that's the year that people want to talk about.
Marc:In general?
Guest:Not in general, but when I'm speaking formally with somebody.
Marc:But that sort of broke you in a way, right?
Marc:It was the blogs and the book that came from that.
Marc:Oh, my gosh.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:If I hadn't done that, I would have just been like another woman in obscurity talking about feminism.
Marc:But where did you go to school?
Guest:Um, I went to college, you mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I went to University of Iowa.
Marc:That's a good school.
Guest:It's all right.
Marc:Well, they got a good literary program, aren't they?
Marc:Got a good writing program?
Guest:Yeah, I did a lot of writing there.
Guest:I met a lot of writers.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't I didn't relate to a lot of the people I met there.
Marc:What was your what were you doing in college?
Marc:Like, who are your music people and who were you know, what were you wearing?
Guest:Oh, you know, I was into like Liz Phair and PJ Harvey, as you can imagine.
Guest:I had really short hair.
Guest:You know, I was almost buzzed off.
Guest:And, you know, what was I wearing?
Marc:Do you have tattoos?
Guest:In college?
Marc:Now?
Guest:Now?
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But not in college?
Guest:I didn't have any money in college.
Marc:Were you sort of like, what were you like, sort of, you know, angry, kind of neo-feminist, empowered?
Guest:You can imagine, yeah.
Guest:Like, I was so disappointed that I wasn't a lesbian.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was like, that was all I wanted in life.
Marc:Did you give it a try?
Guest:You know, who doesn't?
Marc:It didn't work out?
Guest:Yeah, it continued.
Guest:It's disappointing.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that would have been a good life for me.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it must have been an awkward moment where you suddenly kind of decide to do it and then you're kissing a girl and you're like, eh, I don't know.
Marc:Maybe we should just hang out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So when did you start noodling around with dialogue and stuff?
Guest:I didn't really.
Guest:I mean, I wrote, I always wrote, I wrote a lot of poetry in college, which I know is like.
Marc:I did too.
Guest:Eye roll inducing, but like, I actually, I think that was some of the best writing I've ever done.
Marc:I loved, I loved poetry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, and, and, and I, I, I do it sometimes still, you know, cause I wanted to be a lesbian too.
Marc:And, um, but I think the, the control you can get with poetry and whether or not people understand it or not, but if you can communicate like that, that obsessive working of a very small amount of words.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:They become sort of like an equation for,
Guest:And that's still that's still my process.
Guest:Like, that's still something that I enjoy doing, like just going back and just just just finessing a scene over and over again and reordering words.
Guest:And that's what I like to do.
Marc:And that's sort of like, you know, in Juno, I mean, you sort of took a little flack for that, too.
Guest:Well, Juno is like, honestly, that movie is outsider art.
Guest:Like, that was somebody who'd never written a screenplay, who didn't know anything about act structure, about dialogue, even about, like, how to present herself in the industry.
Guest:And I'm talking about myself in the third person.
Guest:That's weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It happens.
Marc:You've been out here too long.
Marc:You've got to get back to the working people.
Marc:I know, right?
Guest:I've got to get back to the hardware store.
Guest:So that's what resulted.
Guest:I still think that's why the movie got so much attention.
Guest:Because it was a different voice.
Guest:It was an outsider voice.
Marc:Well, I think that, you know, to look at it that way is, I think that's true.
Marc:But I also think that because of the cast that was brought together, you know, around the way that you wrote dialogue at that time, I mean, it really is, it's sort of a closed system.
Marc:And the sort of the balance between the language and the comedy and the events of the story, it make it almost like a piece of outsider art.
Marc:I don't know why...
Marc:I think that whatever issue people had with the dialogue, is it maybe not feeling real or not?
Marc:I don't know that that should have even been looked at like that.
Guest:I don't know if there would have ever been any kind of backlash against that movie if it hadn't made a zillion dollars.
Marc:And you won an Oscar, correct?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, if it had stayed at an indie level of...
Guest:of visibility you know kind of like like you know like there's this movie that came out this year called submarine it's great but it's like it's kind of stayed underground right if it had stayed at that level I think people would just talk about Juno lovingly but it's just the fact that it was so successful and so ubiquitous like that's when people start to get snippy
Marc:Yeah, because of that same resentment we were talking about with comics.
Marc:Now, are you happy with that movie?
Marc:Do you look back on it?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I loved Juno.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, I'm still, I can't believe how lucky I got to be able to work with people who were so game and just...
Marc:totally surrendered to that world well it's just interesting to me that you know that some of that like i like the idea that there's a poetry to the language because there was a time in filmmaking and in in commercial movies where there was a clip to things like there there was a rhythm to all of the dialogue yeah you know like in the 30s and 40s that there was a pace that people talked at and that i mean that thing has that weird kind of like clip there's definitely a rhythm to everything there is and i i'm proud of that
Marc:Yeah, no, I think it's incredibly unique.
Marc:And I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:I'm a defender of Juno.
Guest:Oh, well, I appreciate that because there aren't that many.
Guest:Particularly in your world of credible people, there aren't that many defenders of Juno.
Marc:Well, it's sort of like it's...
Marc:Like, there are some people that, I mean, granted, you didn't direct the film.
Guest:Well, that's something people always forget.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:People think, I swear to God, like, I get blamed for everything from, like, the soundtrack to, like, the shoes somebody was wearing.
Guest:And it's like, I simply wrote the script.
Guest:I'm not the author of the movie.
Marc:Well, I think that some people, I think that women, you know, get sort of a, they get judged much harder.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For whatever reason.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:And certainly like you were saying before, certainly women who sort of built somewhat of their reputation on sex or sex work.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:That it's very easy to dismiss somehow or another as like, well, she's just a stripper, whatever it is.
Marc:Do you come up against that often?
Marc:Do you find that to be true?
Guest:You know, I feel like it's something that I've worked.
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:Like, all that kind of went down four years ago, really.
Marc:It's not that long ago.
Marc:No, not really.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:But at the same time, like, I've had the last four years to...
Guest:write about so many things to do so many things that have absolutely nothing to do with stripping.
Guest:But I feel like anyone who's making that argument is going to look stupid.
Marc:Well, what about the argument that like, you know, because you're a woman, you're going to get a harder, you're going to get shafted.
Guest:Oh, that's true.
Guest:I mean, that's definitely true.
Guest:Women definitely face harsher criticism and not just from men either.
Guest:My harshest criticisms come from women for sure.
Marc:Why do you think that is?
Guest:Uh,
Marc:I mean, what's the dynamic there?
Guest:I think women see writing about sex or using sex to gain notoriety as being an unfair shortcut.
Marc:But Juno wasn't about sex.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Well, that's what I always try to explain.
Guest:It wasn't like I wrote some.
Marc:Neither is this movie.
Guest:Neither is anything I've ever written, in fact, besides my book.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So, you know.
Marc:So fuck them.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:It's just like, where's your proof?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Well, I want to see the papers.
Marc:Where are the documentation?
Guest:I keep thinking about this guy.
Guest:There's this, you know, this actor, Channing Tatum.
Guest:But he's doing this new movie called Magic Mike with Steven Soderbergh.
Guest:And he's a really talented guy, super attractive, but he was a stripper.
Guest:And Steven Soderbergh is making this movie about Channing Tatum's time as a stripper.
Guest:And I'm sitting patiently waiting for people to shame Channing Tatum for this revelation.
Guest:It's not happening.
Marc:I think it's sort of interesting when we talk.
Guest:And if it was, I'm not saying I want it to happen to him.
Guest:I'm saying I find it very curious that nobody has anything negative to say.
Marc:Well, it's not loaded up.
Marc:Like, I think it has something to do with what we were talking about before.
Marc:How, you know, men can consume sex, you know, work and sex industry stuff, yet still turn on it.
Marc:I know plenty of men that completely surrender and embrace, you know, porn and stripping and it's integrated into their lives and that's the life they live.
Marc:But that weird sort of, I think, guilt or self-hatred or any of that stuff that, you know, kind of churns in a dude, you know, around that interaction.
Marc:Probably has something to do with it.
Marc:I can't quite put my finger on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But with a guy stripper, I mean, first of all, being a stripper as a man is so far out of any, you know, 99.9% of any man's experience.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:They never think to do it.
Marc:They don't know who would do it.
Marc:They have no preset idea of the kind of man that would do that.
Marc:They probably assume he's gay or that, you know, that it's just a, you know, weird thing that people do that women do for parties.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Whereas, you know, you know, stripping and porn on the other side, it's like some weird necessity.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:There is definitely there's definitely more weight.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And it's so integrated in the culture.
Marc:But what led to the United States of Tara?
Guest:What's so strange is I actually was hired to write that pilot before Juno had even come out.
Guest:I was living in Minneapolis at the time.
Guest:I had written the script for Juno.
Guest:It was circulating.
Guest:I think it had been sold.
Guest:It was about to go into production.
Guest:And DreamWorks called me.
Guest:Steven Spielberg's guys called me and said, you know, Steven has an idea for a pilot.
Guest:Would you be willing to write it?
Guest:Obviously, I would have written anything that he had suggested.
Marc:So it was someone else's idea.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were brought in as a hired gun to write.
Guest:Totally hired gun, but I was given the opportunity to create all the characters, create the world.
Guest:It was just a log line that I had.
Guest:But of course I'm going to work with Steven Spielberg.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you get to hang out with him?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:How was that?
Guest:I mean, he's fantastic.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:He's one of those people where...
Guest:It's just he's functioning at a different level.
Marc:You mean the top?
Guest:The top, exactly.
Guest:But it's just every note the guy gives is completely succinct and brilliant.
Guest:He just has a gift.
Marc:Yeah, and I think that gift has been acknowledged over and over again.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm not saying Steven Spielberg is underrated.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That guy really deserves some credit.
Guest:I know, I know.
Marc:Someone throw Spielberg a bone, all right?
Marc:Enough of this marginalizing of Steven Spielberg.
Marc:Well, Minneapolis, I've always been sort of fascinated with that place.
Marc:How long did you live there?
Guest:I lived there for four years.
Marc:It's kind of like, there's not a lot of ugly culture there.
Marc:There seems to be working culture and artists.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:There's like, I think, what is it, primarily Lutheran?
Marc:There doesn't seem to be that meathead, aggravated.
Marc:Not at all.
Guest:There's definitely like a Scandinavian thing in Minneapolis.
Guest:Yeah, it's beautiful.
Guest:A German Scandinavian stoicism and a composure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you don't find in like New Jersey or Chicago.
Marc:And there's also a weird bit of social responsibility around nurturing the arts.
Marc:I mean, yes, like they have a really interesting scene for for spoken word, for radio, for for comedy.
Guest:They paid attention to me.
Guest:Like when I was in Chicago, I couldn't get published.
Guest:And then it was like as soon as I moved to Minneapolis, suddenly people were interested in what I had to say.
Marc:And there's good music come from there.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:I mean, there's great bands, like there's beautiful museums.
Guest:I think Minneapolis is great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's all those little kind of rodent walkways in between buildings.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's how I knew when I was watching Young Adult.
Marc:I'm like, that's Minneapolis because no one else has those.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You walk through the things.
Guest:Well, they exist because it's actually too cold to walk outside in the winter.
Marc:Did you know, who were your people in Minneapolis?
Marc:Did you know Colleen Cruz?
Marc:Did you know her?
Marc:I think she was probably on radio by the time you got there.
Marc:She used to do some really great spoken word stuff.
Marc:I feel like I knew her.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean what were you doing there?
Marc:Did you ever do any performance?
Guest:You know, I'm not really a performer.
Marc:Outside of the year of being naked.
Guest:Yeah, the year of performance.
Guest:No, I really didn't.
Guest:I did a lot of writing, though.
Guest:I wrote for the local Alt Weekly, which was kind of like the village voice of Minneapolis.
Marc:Well, having not read the writing on stripping, and I don't mean to keep going back to this because I don't want to hold you to it.
Marc:I want to talk about young adult, but I mean...
Marc:So did you find yourself, or do you now find yourself in any sort of condescending position to the people that are sort of trapped in that profession?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:Actually, I feel a lot of guilt about that.
Guest:I don't know if that, maybe that is a form of condescension, but I feel like...
Guest:you know, I was in a privileged position when I did that.
Guest:And, you know, I had a degree and I was safe and I could have walked away at any time.
Guest:And there's people that don't have that option.
Guest:And I, I feel like I wrote, it was to me, I treated the entire thing like a comedy show for my own amusement.
Guest:And when I think back, it was insensitive of me.
Guest:I feel bad about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever become friendly with any?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:Honestly, I came in there wanting to make friends so badly and people didn't like me.
Marc:And was there a point where you had that moment?
Marc:Like, I've certainly had it with drugs.
Marc:Was there ever in that time a risk in your mind that you were starting to either, you know, enjoy the power, become addictive to the power of your sexuality in that position?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And there's definitely your boundaries start to erode.
Guest:So I began to think, oh, what else could I do?
Guest:And that starts, you know, would I do a movie?
Guest:Like, that kind of thing.
Marc:How far could I push this?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Did you ever do any actual sex work around like prostitution?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Handjobs?
Marc:Nothing?
Guest:No.
Guest:I thought about it, though.
Guest:I'm not going to lie, because honestly, when you're giving lap dances all day, you start to think to yourself, like, why would it be a big deal to give somebody a handjob and make another fifty dollars?
Guest:right yeah and then that's just that's because i actually don't see the difference right i just i was never i personally was never able to cross that line but i i it's anybody who's ever been like a stripper or involved in any kind of sex work will tell you there's this weird superiority in the different sects yeah of women like like strippers are like think prostitutes are the grossest thing ever and it's like really like you're right kind of well there's those weird lines like it's pretty close it's
Marc:It's like a drug addict saying, I'm never going to do needles.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I'm just going to snort heroin and smoke it.
Guest:Yeah, I always just thought that was so hypocritical.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So to me, somebody who works in a massage parlor, I don't see how that's different.
Marc:Anything up to anal isn't really being a hooker.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, now, Daria, you're married...
Guest:yeah i'm married i have a son how old's your son he's uh like 17 months old how's that going it's great yeah yeah getting much sleep uh yeah i mean it'll never be the same as it was pre-child and you've been married twice yeah i got divorced like gosh i guess it was almost like four it was like four years ago and then now i'm was it ugly no really it was just one of those like we're done
Guest:No, it's just like, I didn't think it was ugly.
Guest:I mean, it wasn't- Where'd you meet that guy?
Guest:Contentious.
Guest:My ex-husband?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I met him on the internet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were both on like a Beach Boys enthusiast fan site.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, is that weird?
Guest:Well, no.
Marc:It seems very sweet.
Guest:It's almost too sweet.
Guest:It is sweet.
Guest:And he lived in Minneapolis, and so I moved there.
Guest:That's why I wound up there.
Marc:To pursue your Beach Boys enthusiast internet romance?
Yeah.
Guest:Pretty much, yeah.
Marc:What's your favorite Beach Boys album?
Guest:My favorite?
Guest:Probably Sunflower.
Guest:Or, I mean, Everybody Loves Pet Sounds.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Are you a big Smile fan?
Guest:Yeah, that's actually how the relationship came about.
Guest:Because at the time, there was no access to the Smile bootlegs.
Guest:And so I was on a bootleg trading site.
Marc:So you had the goods?
Guest:He had the goods.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it all revolved around like, okay, I think this could work out if you let me listen to Smile.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like, I'm missing the clarinet track from Holidays.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wow, we're perfect.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're meant for each other.
Guest:Honestly, though, it's such a wonderful relationship to have when you're like 23 and it's just optimism and Brian Wilson.
Guest:It was a nice time.
Marc:Have you been able to meet Brian Wilson?
Guest:I have.
Guest:I finally did a couple of years ago and it was very exciting.
Marc:Yeah, you weren't disappointed in any way?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:Because I've met people that you worship and you're sort of like, oh, maybe it's better if I... That's the thing with Brian Wilson, though, is what he gives, he expresses himself so purely that there is no difference, I don't think, between public Brian Wilson and real Brian Wilson.
Marc:Where he can't hide himself.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Because he's missing that filter.
Guest:What you see is what you get.
Marc:Yeah, that's caused him some trouble and also it is his great gift.
Marc:Do you aspire to do that?
Marc:To be that transparent?
Guest:I think I am without wanting to.
Guest:I think that's been the biggest mistake that I've made as a public figure.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Is being too candid because when you present yourself honestly all the time and people reject it or mock it, it's so personal.
Guest:I can't say, oh, I'm misunderstood because I'm not.
Guest:I'm perfectly understood.
Marc:You put it all out there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So have there been times where shit's come back at you and you're like, oh, that's so true.
Guest:Oh my gosh.
Guest:Every day of my life.
Marc:But don't you think that's part of that Catholic weird shame thing?
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Well, then how do you survive?
Guest:I never agree with anybody who praises me, but if somebody criticizes me, I'm like, oh, that is spot on.
Marc:Well, have you ever buckled under that and just gotten despondent and cried and gotten suicidal?
Guest:Doesn't everybody?
Marc:Well, no, I mean, I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, but you seem to be handling yourself very well publicly.
Guest:Well, I mean, I think expressing despondent suicidal thoughts publicly is probably a mistake.
Marc:Depends what you do with them.
Guest:You keep that stuff behind closed doors.
Guest:Yeah, or you can write a movie like Young Adult and channel those feelings of sadness into a character.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, let's talk about that transition from like, you know, what were you bringing to that script from your experience with Juno?
Marc:I mean, was there a list of things like don't fucking do this?
Marc:Don't, you know, try to stay in this area because I I like the movie and I'm not, you know, I'm not easy.
Marc:I'm not that easy in audience.
Marc:I mean, I am.
Marc:I'm not I'm not condescending.
Marc:I'm not I'm not a snob.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:About movies, and I'm perfectly prone to being manipulated by movies that aren't good, but I thought that there was something gritty and something incredibly engaging about the fact that it was really hard to like her.
Guest:Yeah, that was important to me.
Marc:um and that was kind of ballsy and you know and Patton you know when you know all that stuff about his cock I mean that you know you know that was sort of a you know that that almost like it was a cherry on top of the sad sundae that yeah his cock is mangled yeah that I mean like boy did I enjoy writing that
Marc:Did you struggle with that at all?
Marc:I hope I'm not being a spoiler here.
Guest:The decision to mangle his penis?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, that was there from the beginning.
Guest:It was like the characters were in my mind.
Guest:Okay, Mavis, she's this tall, blonde, icy Minneapolis goddess who's a train wreck and Matt has a mangled penis.
Guest:and that was it that's all you had that's all i needed and then you threw the cane in and some the backstory you just needed a how do we get to mangled penis no i mean i honestly i was lucky with this one because it was one of those you know as a writer sometimes sometimes you struggle with things and sometimes they just seem to come in a mystical way were you a cheerleader um no i was in like elementary school but that doesn't count
Marc:Were you popular in high school?
Guest:I wasn't unpopular.
Guest:I went to high school in the 90s, which was kind of an ideal time to be in high school because at that time it was actually cool to be a misfit.
Marc:So everything had changed.
Marc:The social structure, the hierarchy.
Guest:Smells Like Teen Spirit had come out.
Guest:You have cheerleaders in anarchy uniforms.
Guest:That's cool.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The class system had been destroyed.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:So like it was a good time.
Guest:You were in the redefining rubble of what the high school archetypes were to become, which actually I think we're going through that again with like in a different way, a safer way with like Glee and stuff or suddenly, you know, being like the dorky misfit is is really appealing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, but kids are still, you know, high school kids are still fucking and stuff, right?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's ever changed.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It's just like, you know, I always wonder when musicals invade things, whether or not there's as much sordid rock and roll behavior going on.
Guest:I think they have a lot of sex on that show.
Marc:Do they?
Guest:I mean, there's like gay sex.
Guest:Like, I think that's why the show gets criticized by parents, but... Maybe I should check in with it.
Guest:Yeah, you should watch Ghostbusters.
Marc:Let me add that to the list of things I got to do.
Marc:So but when you started doing writing young adult, I mean, was there things hanging with you about Juno that public reaction or anything else?
Guest:No, I mean, that was it was important to me to not be motivated by that.
Guest:I didn't want to say, OK, I'm going to write something completely different than Juno to silence my critics.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was more like that was honestly, I was tired of writing in that mode and I was just ready to tell a different kind of story.
Marc:Because it's pretty gritty, and I thought that entering that movie when I started it, I was carrying the sort of precision, almost the Wes Anderson-like precision of Juno, where all the dialogue had sort of a lyrical flow and kind of ran into another... Even the way it's shot, it's kind of like an anamorphic... Yeah.
Guest:And it's true.
Guest:Young adult, it's hard to believe it's the same director, because it's...
Marc:It's almost a precious, almost modern fairy tale world.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Juno is.
Marc:And then right away, you know, with young adult there, you know, and I like the way Reitman directs.
Marc:I think he's, you know, like, you know, he's good.
Marc:He is.
Marc:And, you know, he's, you know, he's definitely, you know, building a vision, you know, of his own auteurship or whatever you want to call it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there was that, you know, right away you're like, this is a little dirty.
Marc:I mean, there's a little gritty, you know, it's like cityscapes and she just looks so fucking beat up.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:So when you were doing this dialogue, what's your process with it?
Marc:Do you run it out of your own mouth?
Marc:Do you read it with your husband?
Guest:No, I actually, I don't ever run through it with anybody.
Guest:And I don't think I read it aloud either.
Guest:So I guess it all goes down in my head.
Marc:So what was the difference in the poetry of this thing?
Marc:Because you definitely had to approach them kind of differently.
Marc:Like Juno is, you know, feels like you just work the shit out of those words.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess in this case I did too, though.
Guest:Like I did more drafts of this movie than I did of Juno.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is strange.
Guest:But in this case, it wasn't trying to find the perfect cadence.
Guest:It was more like trying to find the truth in the scene.
Guest:Gosh, that sounds pretentious.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:That's a big shift.
Marc:Because so the first one was about language and this was about emotion.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The first one was definitely it was a more superficial process.
Guest:And then in this case, it was less about, you know, the shock and awe of the witty banter and more about, OK, like what's.
Marc:These are broken people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These are broken people.
Guest:How are they really going to talk to each other?
Marc:Well, that's fucking wild.
Yeah.
Marc:What were some of the evolutions of these characters in draft-wise?
Marc:I mean, how many drafts did you do?
Guest:I think there's got to be at least five.
Marc:And how many were your choice?
Guest:Well, the last couple I did with Jason, which was with him...
Guest:suggesting things.
Guest:We have a good relationship, so it wasn't like he was, you know, ordering me to change things.
Guest:He made one suggestion that's really interesting, where, like, in a lot of prior drafts, Mavis' parents were just, like, monstrous.
Guest:Like, really awful people.
Guest:And there was a scene where she goes to see her mom and dad, and they were...
Guest:awful and jason said i feel like it's kind of a cop-out to have her parents be be this unpleasant because then people go oh that explains her that's right that's why she is the way she is and that's why i wrote it like i that was my intention and i'd never thought of it as a cop-out but he was like i think the parents should actually be like perfectly pleasant if not slightly that's brilliant midwestern and i thought oh you're right
Marc:Well, because honestly, when I watched it, being that there's some part of me, I hate to admit it, there's some part of me that desires a Hollywood ending.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:There's some part of me that I want her to be forgiven and I want her to change.
Guest:I do too.
Guest:I still feel vaguely dissatisfied when I watch the movie.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And I said that to my girlfriend.
Marc:I said, you know, I would have liked to have been able to track her dysfunction.
Guest:But I think that's because we're used to doing that.
Guest:I feel like that's a form of comfort food.
Marc:I'm happy that you had a conversation about it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We had so many conversations about the ending, too.
Marc:Well, because that moment where you do meet her parents, your choice would have been to, at that juncture in the film, to make her become a sympathetic character.
Marc:Whereas the way the film is now, you have to struggle to let that happen.
Marc:And the only time that she does become one, it's when she finally loses her shit in earnest.
Marc:And then still part of you thinks like, well, this is going to resolve itself in some sort of change.
Marc:And I don't want to spoil any more than I've already spoiled.
Marc:But that was a conversation you had.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, the biggest issue was actually before the director came on board and before Charlize was involved.
Guest:When the script was kind of still in the development stage, I felt like...
Guest:I have a producing partner I always work with, and he said, he loved the script, but he said, you're not going to get this movie made with the ending like this.
Marc:You have to change it.
Marc:With the original ending?
Guest:With the ending that you see.
Guest:And he said, you have to change it.
Guest:And so I considered it.
Guest:I wish I could say, I said, no, I'm maintaining the integrity of the script.
Guest:I thought, all right, I'll change it.
Guest:Honestly, I'm pretty flexible.
Guest:And then Jason Reitman came on, and he said, no, I want to do this because...
Marc:The ending.
Guest:I feel the ending is courageous and I'm not going to change it.
Marc:And that was always the ending.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what were some of the other character adjustments you made through the five drafts that were drastic?
Guest:You know, I have to say there's a scene in the movie where, again, not to give anything away, but she does kiss Buddy, who's this guy she's been pursuing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That originally didn't happen.
Guest:It was really, really clear from beginning to end that she was going to be unsuccessful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there was a suggestion made along the way, like, there needs to be one moment that creates some tension for the audience where they go, oh, is he actually going to succumb to her wiles?
Right.
Marc:And who'd you have that discussion with?
Guest:I believe I had it with this producer, Russ Smith, that we have, who works for John Malkovich.
Marc:He brought that up.
Guest:Yeah, he brought it up.
Marc:Interesting.
Guest:And it was a good note, I think, because I like that scene.
Marc:Yeah, because without that scene, you don't... That scene creates that ambiguity.
Marc:That there is a possibility that she could take down... She could suck the entire world to her level.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And create the kind of chaos that she...
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it's a scene that people talk about because it's not clear how fully Buddy is participating because he's really drunk and he just kind of falls into the kiss.
Guest:And it's I feel like it's a provocative scene.
Marc:Well, because like that scene where she shows up for that, the baby naming.
Marc:I mean, that I mean, that like you don't know you really I really didn't know what was going to happen.
Guest:Did you worry that she was going to hurt the baby?
Guest:Because a few people at our screenings have told me that.
Guest:And I think, wow, I had no idea people found her that volatile that they worried that she would hurt the baby.
Marc:No, I didn't think she was going to hurt the baby.
Marc:But the big twist in terms of why she was there was very effective.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because it just pulled the fucking rug out from everything that she was building her delusion on.
Guest:And to me, the character of Beth, who's the wife of Buddy, Mavis is trying to steal her ex-boyfriend Buddy back from this woman, Beth.
Guest:And Beth, I have to say, she's the most wonderful person.
Guest:She's this loving mother, good friend, fun.
Guest:She plays drums in a band.
Marc:Grounded.
Guest:And I find her incredibly aggravating.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I relate to Mavis on that level.
Marc:Well, do you have that in your life?
Guest:When people are just too good like that, I'm consumed with jealousy because I think I could never be like that.
Marc:Is it too good or just too at peace?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At peace, not easily angered.
Guest:She's not even... I mean, she actually has sympathy for Mavis.
Marc:Did you grow up with that?
Marc:Are your parents like that?
Yeah.
Guest:My parents are... I don't know.
Guest:They're not like that.
Marc:No?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're actually a little bit like the parents in... They're actually a little bit like Mavis' parents.
Marc:Really?
Guest:You know, where you could just drop a bomb at the kitchen table.
Guest:Like, I'm an alcoholic.
Guest:And my mom would say, oh, you're funny.
Marc:So just kind of keep pushing it down the pike.
Marc:A little bit avoidant, yeah.
Marc:Do you have siblings?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I have an older brother.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What did he end up doing?
Guest:He's like, I mean, I love him.
Guest:He's probably going to listen to this, but he's kind of the black sheep of the family.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's interesting because he seemed to play the black sheep of the family.
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:I always say my parents, I can't believe they're so screwed because they actually got two, they actually had two rebellious children.
Guest:And it's usually you get one pleaser and like neither.
Guest:Really?
Marc:You don't think secretly you are?
Guest:uh i mean it hasn't come around and now i think now it has you know my parents live in los angeles now which is crazy they moved here after be close to the kids 60 plus years as chicagoans yeah they moved here to be near my son well they must be thrilled at the weather they love it i mean my dad like my dad grew a goatee and he reads the hollywood reporter and like he oh my god you've sucked them in he's gone hollywood
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Were you able, you know, and I don't want to be forward about, were you able to sort of set them up?
Marc:I mean.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I mean.
Guest:That's what I was getting at.
Guest:But I guess I am the pleaser now.
Marc:Yeah, you're able to take care of them now.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that must feel good.
Guest:If anything, any time that I sit and regret anything I've done in my career, I think, oh, but now I get to take care of my parents.
Guest:So it's completely worthwhile.
Marc:People who worked hard and brought you up and did not necessarily have the lives they wanted.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it's being able to show them a life of sunshine and possibilities.
Marc:How old are they?
Guest:They're in their mid-60s.
Marc:Ah, so that's like perfect.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad was just going to be on a government pension if it weren't for you?
Guest:Yeah, well, I think he would still be working.
Guest:He didn't have any plans to retire, and I was able to convince him.
Marc:Better be careful.
Marc:He's probably going to want to open a restaurant.
Guest:Honestly, they live in this building.
Guest:They have a condo that I bought them in this building and my dad immediately became the building manager because he has to work.
Marc:And so he is actually the building manager.
Guest:I don't know how he managed to weasel his way into that position.
Marc:But it's an actual position.
Guest:Or he's running the board.
Guest:Either way, he's working at the building and I'm not sure how that happens.
Marc:It's not the owners going, yeah, he thinks he works here.
Guest:It might be that.
Guest:No, I don't.
Marc:And so that's great.
Marc:You have babysitters.
Guest:It's perfect, in fact.
Marc:So what's the brother do?
Guest:My brother is a commodities trader, and he lives in Miami.
Marc:That's a black sheep?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Like, you don't understand.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Make me understand.
Guest:I mean, trust me.
Guest:This will be a long conversation.
Marc:Well, we got time.
Guest:He lives in Miami.
Guest:He's kind of a...
Guest:He's honestly one of the strangest people.
Guest:He is the strangest human being I've ever met in my entire life.
Guest:He's a really, really not neurotypical, interesting person.
Guest:I don't think he has any furniture right now.
Guest:I think he lives in a completely unfinished apartment with an iPad that I bought him.
Guest:Sort of by choice.
Marc:And a futon or what?
Marc:But he's got money.
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:He doesn't have any money.
Marc:So he's doing a sort of poverty Buddha kind of.
Guest:He's an interesting dude.
Guest:He's super brilliant.
Guest:I always wonder if there's like a place in the world for him that he hasn't found yet.
Marc:Why see a place in the world of your next script?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I wouldn't even know.
Guest:I wouldn't even know where to start.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is he an adventurer?
Marc:Has he just had many lives?
Yeah.
Guest:He's super adventurous.
Guest:I mean, he's got nine lives.
Guest:He is just... Honestly, I don't even know where to start.
Guest:This is like one of the weirdest topics of conversation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you not want to talk about it?
Guest:No, I do.
Guest:It's just we have a super complicated relationship.
Marc:Like you like each other?
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:But we've also had like fights the likes of which you've never seen between siblings.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Like screaming and yelling and throwing.
Guest:And violence.
Guest:And I mean, we have a really complicated relationship.
Marc:Is it recently?
Guest:I mean, not recently because he's in Miami.
Marc:But oh, oh, really?
Marc:How is your success sitting with him?
Guest:Oh, you know what?
Guest:He's incredibly proud.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's able to be proud?
Guest:Oh, super.
Guest:That's one thing that I do love about him.
Guest:He would never begrudge me success, and he's very loving.
Guest:And one crazy thing that he does is he drinks a lot, and he'll call me from bars drunk and make me talk to people at the bar because he's so proud of me.
Marc:And it's embarrassing.
Marc:Yeah, that's sort of a blurred boundary there.
Marc:I do know her.
Guest:Yeah, it's awful.
Guest:It happens a lot.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you get those calls, like in the middle of the night type of thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Hey, just tell me out.
Marc:Just talk to this dude.
Guest:I mean, I get a lot of just help me out emails, too.
Guest:Like, it's just crazy.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Could someone make more noise out there?
Marc:Is that Ernie?
Marc:Is that Ernie?
Marc:Hey, buddy.
Marc:Nice to see you.
Marc:Hi.
Hi.
Marc:He's building my fence.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:That was a special guest appearance.
Marc:I like that too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, well, do you feel vindicated now?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Marc:There's a little bit of like, see?
Marc:You know what?
Guest:If you were me, wouldn't you need that?
Guest:I feel like I- I'm not you and I need it.
Guest:I definitely-
Guest:There, that's my point.
Guest:Could you give me some of that?
Guest:I desperately needed vindication, and I feel like... I don't think I've ever been more excited for a movie to come out, because these months have passed, and I kept thinking, I think this movie's going to come out, and I think it's going to vindicate me somehow, and I think that it did.
Marc:Now, outside of the slight discomfort around...
Marc:the portrayal or whatever was it the parents like I mean are there things about the movie where you're like yeah I wish that that was different
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:I mean, I'm actually glad that the parents changed.
Guest:I don't really have those moments with Jason.
Guest:I feel like he always does the material justice and makes it better, actually.
Guest:So I'm really happy with it.
Marc:And what's the next project?
Marc:I mean, what are the million things that you've been offered and are now currently engaging in?
Guest:I'm actually going to direct a movie in a couple months.
Marc:Your movie?
Guest:A movie that I wrote, yes, which I've never done before, so...
Marc:You got a good sense of it?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:How'd you learn what you learned?
Marc:Did you hang around the sets?
Guest:Yes, and I've been doing that from the beginning, so I feel like I've been in a really pricey film school in a way.
Marc:And what's the movie?
Guest:It's kind of a weird story.
Guest:It's about this woman.
Guest:She's like 21.
Guest:She's young.
Guest:And she grew up in like a super fundamentalist, super religious community.
Guest:Like no TV, no secular music, long skirt, just very fundy.
Guest:And she gets in a plane crash.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And is like sort of horribly burned and goes through this grueling recovery.
Guest:And she...
Guest:She basically goes in front of her entire congregation and says that she's renounced God and that no benevolent God would allow somebody to suffer that much.
Marc:And they can't really argue with her, I guess.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:And so she's leaving and she leaves the community and goes to Las Vegas to try and live a sinful life as she perceives it.
Marc:How badly burned is she?
Guest:Her arms and legs and feet and a little bit of her face.
Guest:I mean, it's not like a gruesome thing to behold.
Guest:And she's covered for most of the movie, but she's hurt.
Marc:Now, is there like, I don't know what kind of theme you're setting up for yourself with this last movie.
Marc:Is there redemption in this movie?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This is, I think, a really uplifting movie, actually.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It's about, I mean, I don't want to give everything away, but to me, the overall theme of this movie is that people can transcend their damage and their scars and their pain and go on to be whole again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm banking on that.
Guest:I hope so, too.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, Brooke.
Guest:Thank you so much for having me, Mark.
Thank you.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Lovely conversation.
Marc:Diablo Cody.
Marc:Very happy she stopped by.
Marc:We had a nice time.
Marc:She's very nice.
Marc:Very nice lady, that Diablo Cody.
Marc:Nice lady.
Marc:Nice woman.
Marc:All right.
Marc:What are we doing?
Marc:We're ending the show.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Go to JustCoffee.coop or better yet, go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get all your WTFPod needs met.
Marc:Kick in a few shekels.
Marc:Check out the episode guide.
Marc:Get your app situation in control.
Marc:Post on the comment board.
Marc:Get on the mailing list because I do that every week.
Marc:I mail a thing to you with pictures and things I'm thinking.
Marc:If you want more of that, check out the dates on the calendar.
Marc:Okay, Boomer.
Marc:All right, look, I'll talk to you Monday.
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