Episode 248 - Paul Feig
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuckericans?
Marc:What the fuck stars?
Marc:I don't know where that one came from.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening to my show.
Marc:Thanks for everything.
Marc:Is that a nice way to open?
Marc:With gratitude.
Marc:A big open heart of gratitude.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:Did I already mention that?
Marc:I am tired.
Marc:I have been a lot of places in the last... Well, not a lot of places, but it seems like a lot of travel.
Marc:On the show today, Paul Feig, the director of Bridesmaids, which, by the way, I might mention, is up for a couple of Oscars.
Marc:That happened after I talked to Paul Feig, but not long after.
Marc:He had just been at the Golden Globes, but nonetheless, it's got the Oscar nomination for original screenplay and Best Supporting Actress, Melissa McCarthy.
Marc:I was thrilled to talk to Paul Feig because I'm a guy that came to Freaks and Geeks much later in life.
Marc:I say that like I was an old man.
Marc:Well, I was.
Marc:It was in the last five years.
Marc:And our ages are so close.
Marc:It was so identical to my high school experience that I, of course, loved the show.
Marc:So we'll get to Paul in just a second.
Marc:Let's get some business out of the way up front.
Marc:How about personal business?
Marc:I will be Magner's Comedy Fest tomorrow night in Boston.
Marc:You can probably still get tickets today.
Marc:Not many left if you waited until the last minute, but I think there are a few for the live WTF and for my live stand-up show.
Marc:Two separate shows at the Wilbur Theater tomorrow night, Friday, January 27th in Boston.
Marc:Also next weekend, the following weekend, whatever weekend that might be, I'll be at Sketchfest in San Francisco doing a live WTF.
Marc:On the 3rd or 4th, I can't remember.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Check it out.
Marc:I should know.
Marc:Live WTF at Sketchfest.
Marc:You can go check that out.
Marc:Why don't I know that?
Marc:Hey, do me a favor, will you?
Marc:Will you go look up Sketchfest in San Francisco and see when the live WTF is?
Marc:I'm doing a couple other shows, smaller shows, but could you do that right now?
Marc:Oh, you're on the treadmill?
Marc:Oh, you're in your car?
Marc:Oh, you're at work?
Marc:Well, if you're at work, you can look it up.
Marc:Just check it out for me and let me know, will you?
Marc:Thanks, I appreciate it.
Marc:I'm talking to you.
Marc:Yeah, you, listening.
Marc:Oh, let me just tell you this.
Marc:This band, the music on today's show is by a band called Tyrannosaurus Grace.
Marc:They're a great band from the Pacific Northwest on fake label records.
Marc:You can check them out at tgraceband.com.
Marc:So where have I been?
Marc:I did the show Monday, but I had not gotten back.
Marc:from atlanta nor was i able to comment on atlanta nor uh spread some of my uh excitement about atlanta man we sold out five shows five shows in atlanta the laughing skull great club great audiences thank you for coming down uh thank you for um making me hate myself food wise but that's you know that's an ongoing struggle but
Marc:Fuck, man.
Marc:When you're in Georgia, when you're in Atlanta, you're always within a couple miles of biscuits and gravy, and there's just no way I can avoid that.
Marc:I was literally three blocks from biscuits and gravy, but I'm okay.
Marc:I'm all right.
Marc:I'm not going to complain about it.
Marc:Oh, can I get a little more business out of the way, if you don't mind?
Marc:WTF, we have a YouTube channel now where we tease the episodes of the week, and also there's some classic...
Marc:old Marc Maron videos up there.
Marc:Am I referring to myself in the third person?
Marc:There's some videos I did when I was on Break Room Live that are pretty great, and we started to post them up there.
Marc:So if you do a search for WTF on YouTube, you can go look at those.
Marc:Also, we have been in the habit of putting up a small audio segment of the upcoming show
Marc:for like a coming attraction.
Marc:But the videos I'm really proud of.
Marc:We shot those.
Marc:The ones, all the ones are up there, directed by Matthew Weiss.
Marc:And some of them are pretty great and they're pretty funny.
Marc:And they are, you know, they sort of, they're evergreen.
Marc:They're timeless.
Marc:Why do I keep saying sort of?
Marc:How many times can you say sort of?
Marc:Moving on in this discussion, before we get to Paul Feig, I was at Sundance.
Marc:I don't know if any of you know that.
Marc:Flown out by Mike Birbiglia and Ira Glass.
Marc:I am in Mike's movie, Sleepwalk With Me.
Marc:I did a couple of scenes that turned out to be sort of pivotal scenes in the film.
Marc:The movie's not about me.
Marc:It's about Mike.
Marc:And I'd never been to Sundance before.
Marc:And a couple of things happened.
Marc:I had had a sort of a tense relationship with Mike.
Marc:But you as you know, if you listen to the show, we we did a one on one where I interviewed Mike and we sort of patch that up.
Marc:And then he interviewed me hosting my own show.
Marc:Mike was the host of the 200th episode of WTF, where he interviewed me and did a fine job of it.
Marc:I cannot deny his comic abilities.
Marc:He's a good stand-up comedian, and he made this movie.
Marc:I had no idea how the movie would turn out.
Marc:But the movie turned out really well.
Marc:It was funny.
Marc:It was touching.
Marc:And I was okay in it.
Marc:Actually, I was pretty good in it.
Marc:I saw it twice.
Marc:The tricky thing for me was, and I must be growing up or I must be achieving some sort of genuine humility.
Marc:I don't know that there was a time where I would have even accepted the role from Mike Birbiglia just because of my own weird pride and resentment and jealousy.
Marc:But not only did I accept the role, I was excited to do it.
Marc:And then I went out to Sundance and did some press for Mike's movie and talked it up and hung out with Mike.
Marc:And we had a nice time.
Marc:We had fun.
Marc:And this shouldn't be a big life lesson for anybody, but there would have been another time where I don't know whether I could have done any of those things just because I was such a bitter, angry fuck.
Marc:I mean, I don't know if you know the story, but when Mike was running his show,
Marc:I was downstairs.
Marc:He was running his show to sold out audience at the bleaker theater upstairs in the big room with a nice set.
Marc:And I was downstairs workshopping my divorce show in a leaky, shitty, dank basement of the theater.
Marc:It couldn't have been more metaphoric.
Marc:The fact that the kid that I always resented for having focus, for being ambitious, for getting things done and really making a name for himself and doing his style of comedy.
Marc:It's honest.
Marc:It's real.
Marc:It's good comedy.
Marc:And there I was in the basement of his successful run of the show that went on to become this movie.
Marc:Obviously, I was in bad shape because I was doing a show about my divorce.
Marc:But he invited me to see his show.
Marc:And I met his producer, who was out there as well, Seth.
Marc:And I just could not deal with it.
Marc:I was a complete douchebag.
Marc:I couldn't go see his show or anything.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:I'm so glad I'm over that.
Marc:It is very hard to not make it be about me and be a team player and be excited about someone else's success, but it's happening more and more.
Marc:And I just want to share that with you.
Marc:If you think I'm a pussy for sharing that, or you don't, you know, if it's not your cup of tea, but you know, I had a, I was, I was happy to be part of it and I had a great time at Sundance, but I will tell you one spectacular experience.
Marc:Oh,
Marc:pow wow did i just shit my pants oh man just coffee.coop i've gotten a few emails of people that don't really like that branding of the coffee but it's doing well for for me and the coffee and i enjoy saying it so you're just gonna have to live with that okay here's a moment so we're sitting there in the lobby of the marriott
Marc:at sundance where we're both staying and we're just talking we're waiting for van to pick us up and mike starts to tell me the story about chris rock he talked about it's an interesting conversation when you do comedy a long time you know you want the big comics to know who you are you want to be part of the community you want to feel that you want to feel that you're you're you're in the game you're on their radar it's just something that you want i think it's probably the same with any business
Marc:But in comedy, it's hard to know, you know, who's exposed to who or whatever.
Marc:So Mike is telling me this story about Chris Rock, how he'd always wondered if Chris knew him.
Marc:And, you know, because Mike's a big comic.
Marc:I mean, he's a he's a big comic and he's done one man shows.
Marc:He's been on Letterman.
Marc:He's done specials.
Marc:He's done.
Marc:He's written a book.
Marc:I mean, there's no question Berbiglia is a big comic.
Marc:So we're sitting there and he's telling me the story about how he ran into Chris in New York.
Marc:They were both waiting for a light to change or something.
Marc:They're on a street corner.
Marc:So Mike was wondering in his mind, does Chris Rock know who I am?
Marc:Let's just assume he does or at least say hi.
Marc:And you have that moment where it's like, hey, Chris.
Marc:Chris looked at him, not registering.
Marc:And he said, I'm Mike Birbiglia.
Marc:I'm a comic.
Marc:And Chris Rock in that moment, as Mike describes it, had really no idea who he was and said, oh, yeah, well, you know, good luck with that or good luck or whatever.
Marc:Not dismissive, but polite.
Marc:but he had no idea who he was.
Marc:I know what that feels like, because you have that moment where it's like, you know, if I see Larry David or anybody who I don't know if they know me, and you kind of wander around, you say hi, hoping they're familiar with you, and a lot of times they're not.
Marc:Okay, I have had the moment.
Marc:But I swear to fucking God, two seconds after two seconds after Birbiglia tells that story.
Marc:And now look, we're up there.
Marc:We're up there for Mike's movie.
Marc:He's made a movie, you know, and it's a big deal.
Marc:But OK, two seconds after he tells me that story, Chris Rock walks into the lobby.
Marc:looks over at the couch and goes, Hey Mark.
Marc:And he, you know, I get up, I give him a hug.
Marc:He said, people like the podcast.
Marc:I said, yeah, yeah, it was great.
Marc:How are you doing?
Marc:Everything.
Marc:All right.
Marc:What are you doing up here?
Marc:But, but he's got a movie up there.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Mike stands up, walks over and there's that awkward moment.
Marc:And I introduced Mike to Chris and then Mike tells Chris the story about running into him on the street.
Marc:And, uh,
Marc:And Chris doesn't remember that, nor does he remember Mike, nor does he have any real knowledge of Mike.
Marc:I could just you could just tell.
Marc:And and they they met and they talked for a minute.
Marc:But and then then Chris went over and started talking to some other people.
Marc:So me and Mike sit back down on the couch and it was just one of these moments where he's like, that was amazing timing.
Marc:And I just looked at him and I said, yeah, I mean, that was a special moment for both of us.
Marc:And he just busted out laughing.
Marc:It's the little things, folks.
Marc:I mean, it's not petty, but it was hilarious in the moment.
Marc:I'll tell you that.
Marc:Thank God for those.
Marc:And thank God he appreciated it.
Marc:And we got a huge fucking laugh.
Marc:God, did we have a good laugh on that one.
Marc:This is a good one.
Marc:It was an undeniably sweet, painful laugh.
Guest:I appreciate you coming.
Guest:Thank you, Mark.
Guest:I could not be more thrilled.
Marc:I'm a fan.
Marc:You were at the, but just last night you were at the Golden Globes, right?
Marc:Yes, fresh from the Golden Globes.
Marc:Like, I don't know you, so I'm like, I was looking at my watch thinking like, it's going to be hungover, it's not going to happen.
Marc:But clearly, you showed up in a three-piece suit and you're not hungover.
Guest:Well, I wouldn't go that far.
Yeah.
Guest:I weather it well.
Guest:I'm a long-term drinker.
Guest:You're a pro.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So what happens, though?
Guest:Were you disappointed last night?
Guest:No, I did not expect anything was going to happen.
Guest:I kind of hoped that Kristen might get one because I thought she had the shot in her category.
Guest:But the Globes are weird because they kind of lump...
Guest:you know, comedy and music together.
Guest:So, I mean, Michelle Williams gave an amazing performance, but it's, you know, it wasn't particularly the funniest performance of the year.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and Kristen was just so awesome.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, there's no way we're going to win the best comedy.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:The artist is a runaway freight train.
Marc:Have you seen The Artist?
Guest:Yeah, I have.
Guest:And it's great?
Guest:It's really good.
Guest:It's really good.
Guest:I won't say it's perfect, but what movie is?
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's moments you go like, oh, that's why we invented sound, you know, because there's a couple of moments you just get kind of bored.
Guest:But it's so charming that at the end, if you have any reservations about it, you feel like an absolute shithead because it's just it's so earnest and sweet.
Guest:So if I have to get beaten by something, it's that.
Marc:But didn't you find it interesting?
Marc:I know that, well, the foreign press, whatever they are, is what it is, but there was something that happened in Bridesmaids that's really never happened before.
Marc:Now, granted, structurally, it's a fun comedy.
Marc:But in terms of what you did and what you facilitated, really has never been done before.
Marc:So it was sort of a breakthrough thing.
Marc:And I and I understand the artist is a more artier film and there's a lot of conceit there and it's black and white.
Marc:So we're supposed to pay more attention to it.
Marc:But in my mind, I thought it came down to, you know, something a breakthrough comedy for women versus, you know, a sort of snobby looking comedy that I have not seen yet.
Guest:Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
Guest:No, you know what it is?
Guest:Comedy, when you do it right, doesn't seem very showy and worthy of award.
Guest:Because I could have, like any filmmaker, I could have shot Bridesmaids differently and kind of made it fancier.
Guest:Whack and white.
Guest:Yeah, with cool shots and really been cinematic with it.
Guest:But then I would be completely...
Guest:Not in service of the story and not in service of the cast and the audience.
Guest:So that sadly, that's part of the thing when you're when you're a comedy filmmaker, you do have to say, all right, I'm going to let go some kind of show yourself.
Guest:Look, all you know, like any filmmaker, I love nothing more than to kind of really figure out cool shots.
Guest:And I've worked.
Marc:directed the show nurse Jackie I really got a chance to kind of play with that but comedy just got to be in service of the story well give yourself some credit that shot of Maya Rudolph in the street in her wedding dress shitting is really one of the greatest cinematic achievements like it's beyond special effects it's beyond the humanity and the humility of that shot alone and I'm sure you've talked about it is so memorable and so never been done before ever you should really give yourself credit
Guest:I'm very proud.
Guest:And there's no brown.
Guest:There's no shit or anything.
Guest:It's all just implied, which I'm very proud of.
Marc:You know, the wedding dress protects it in a beautiful, you know, just flowing white gown.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But she played that so beautifully.
Marc:And I have to assume people talk about it because as a shot it to me, it was like we just watched the first moon landing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We know comedy plays so well in a proscenium generally, you know, and that's why it's figuring out just what's the best way to show something off.
Guest:And it is a spatial relations.
Guest:I can get very fancy and then sound like I actually have a scientific method to it.
Guest:No, because it is really spatial relations is all what comedy is about, especially physical comedy.
Guest:And it's like when I worked on a directed a lot of The Office.
Guest:And occasionally the camera guys who are fantastic, I mean, they're actual documentary camera guys, so they really go in the moment.
Guest:But their instinct is to crash in on close-ups constantly, because that's what you'd be doing in those.
Marc:Because that's the style of documentary that they're mocking.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But what happens then, you lose kind of this spatial relation.
Guest:A perfect example was we had some shot where Michael Scott kept walking away from Jim and then walking back to him, kind of wanting to ask him something.
Guest:And they kept crashing in.
Guest:It was like, no, you've got to stay wide.
Guest:So we see Michael coming towards us, and you see Jim in the background.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you see his whole body turn and go back because there's just something funnier about that because you know, oh, that's where he is.
Guest:And that's why I have problems with a lot of direction in action movies because there's this whole school where it's all that.
Guest:It's kind of like the Bourne identity where it's all crashed in and it's super shaky cam and it's in close-ups, but there's no geography to it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there's a high contrast element now to color, which is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think that's an interesting point.
Marc:But also you have to have these because physical comedy is not easy.
Marc:I mean, you know, for people, performers who do physical comedy, I have so much respect for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I'm a cerebral guy.
Marc:You know, I get a joke and I do my own things.
Marc:But to be a conscious physical comedian is a real gift.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And there needs to be a logic to it.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:And I imagine when you're shooting it, you need to be able to repeat it.
Marc:It can't be, oh, we're never going to get that again.
Guest:It's like the Daffy Duck blowing himself up.
Marc:I can only go once.
Guest:There really has to be a reason for the physical comedy.
Guest:And bad physical comedy is... Well, good physical comedy is like in the Pink Panther.
Guest:There's a whole method of why he trips.
Guest:Coming in and there's something he doesn't see or...
Guest:Out of his hubris or whatever, he's trying to be cool and he doesn't see this thing and he trips.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:What's not funny, and you see this all the time, is like they walk into the room and they fall down.
Guest:And it's like, well, why did they fall down?
Guest:Are they just stupid?
Guest:Or, you know, it's a cheap laugh.
Guest:Yeah, it's not funny in itself.
Guest:Just like in Bridesmaids.
Guest:I mean, you know, people, a lot of the takeaway is.
Guest:Oh, my God, they're vomiting and shitting and this and that.
Guest:It'd be hilarious.
Guest:That's vomiting, shitting.
Guest:Vomiting is not funny at all unless you find the right context for it.
Marc:Well, yeah, to set the food poisoning to take place when they're all trying on.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's a good setup.
Marc:And so so it's grounded in something we can all identify with.
Marc:And it almost seems reasonable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's the lead up.
Guest:Everybody like pretending they're OK.
Guest:And is it hot in here?
Guest:No, I'm fine.
Marc:I'm fine.
Guest:I'm fine.
Guest:You know, that's what's funny.
Guest:And then, you know, then we really, you know, kind of grapple with do we show the throw up or not is what our editor, Bill Kerr, kind of calls.
Guest:That was the big decision.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Well, after lots of stuff we did because he calls it like it's the McDonald's hamburger theory, which is you can feed somebody like the biggest, greasiest hamburger and they'll eat it happily.
Guest:But then 10 minutes later, they're going to go like, shit, why did I eat that?
Marc:Right.
Guest:And the same thing like, oh, why did I laugh at that?
Guest:That's so terrible.
Guest:Unless there's kind of something you're relating to in it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, the vomit was not, you know, the half of it, you know, uh, Megan sitting on the sink.
Marc:I mean, the thing about that is, and I don't want to dwell on it too much, is everyone's been in that situation.
Marc:It's just, you never, most men, and I would assume most women don't ever want to think about that situation in such a public format.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's like classic, you know, shit and farts are funny.
Marc:There's nothing you can do about it.
Guest:Amen to that.
Guest:Farts will always make me laugh.
Guest:I am so... I somehow got... I don't know if I got this reputation or not, but because of Freaks and Geeks, people kind of think I'm slightly classier with my comedy.
Guest:But if you look at Freaks and Geeks, every single episode has a fart joke or reference to farts in it.
Marc:Was that on the board?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Make sure to include fart jokes.
Marc:Include farts.
Marc:Well, I mean, at that age, when people are in that part of their life, I mean, farts are a big deal.
Marc:What's funnier than that?
Guest:A fart can ruin your life at that age.
Guest:Amen.
Guest:And that's my favorite kind of fart.
Guest:To portray is the one that sneaks out in front of your favorite girl.
Marc:Yeah, and you're remembered forever as the guy who farted.
Marc:Who hasn't had that situation?
Marc:But let's talk a little bit about how you got from A to huge.
Marc:I mean, you're very well respected, and you are pretty huge in the world I run in.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:But was the intention, you grew up where?
Guest:In Michigan, right outside Detroit, about 20 miles outside of Detroit in the suburbs.
Guest:Back when Detroit was still a city?
Guest:Yeah, although we went through the riots and everything.
Guest:I remember driving, my cousin lived on one side of Detroit.
Guest:We lived on the other side in the different suburbs.
Guest:I remember getting picked up to go spend the weekend at his house and going past the riots.
Guest:We just saw the whole city on fire.
Marc:Really?
Marc:What year was that?
Guest:80s?
Guest:68.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So you were a little kid?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you were like my age.
Marc:How old are you?
Marc:Yeah, I'm 49.
Marc:I'm 48.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Isn't those weird?
Marc:Isn't those recollections strange?
Marc:Because I still have recollections of watching Vietnam on television.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:Some of my scariest memories were, remember they would show the news and then they would have this kind of graphic, it was just really low end graphic.
Guest:The body count?
Guest:Yeah, how many people were killed.
Guest:And I would just watch it like, oh, it was terrifying.
Marc:Yeah, and there were actually journalists that were out in the jungles occasionally, and it was just chaos.
Marc:And I remember, don't you have a real recollection?
Marc:Because the hippies and that movement, the youth movement at that time, made a profound impact on me.
Marc:Like, for some reason, even at age, whatever it was, six, I'm like, I want to be part of that.
Marc:Oh, no, totally.
Guest:When can I grow a beard?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Well, everything was so graphic then.
Guest:I mean, it's like, you know, the footage of the most recent wars, it doesn't have that same...
Marc:Well, they sterilize it.
Marc:And it's also on a different terrain.
Marc:And all imagery is managed now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was something about that handheld black and white kind of out there.
Guest:It was so grainy.
Guest:And so it was like that really made the war.
Guest:I think that's what deglamorized war more than anything is all that footage.
Marc:And also at that time, especially with Vietnam, I think once the chaos began and once things started to get out of control, it seemed like all the soldiers had some sort of unique approach to how they were going to outfit themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So there wasn't this sort of consolidated, kind of mechanized look of the military.
Marc:It just looked like a free-for-all.
Guest:Yeah, it was like a ragtag team.
Guest:I know, and my dad owned an army surplus store, so we used to get all that stuff in.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:My father, he always said, the hippies made me rich.
Guest:Not that he was that rich, but that's why Lindsey Weir and Freaks and Geeks wears an army jacket, because it's a tribute to my dad's store.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, OK, so now did you grow up?
Marc:Are you Jewish or what?
Guest:My father's side was Jewish, but then my grandmother, who was the most, you know, stereotypical Jewish grandmother, became a Christian scientist.
Guest:Really?
Guest:My mother, who was from a British background and they were Episcopalian and she was in her family were Christian scientists.
Guest:So I was brought up.
Guest:By Christian scientists, but it was the most Jewish household under the name of Christian science, because apparently back in the 20s and 30s, a lot of Jews, you know, turned into Christian scientists.
Marc:And that's that's Mary Baker.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I've been to have you been to the headquarters in Boston?
Marc:Yeah, where it is.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:When I was a teenager, I was in the church, and you had to go once a year.
Marc:Did you go into the map room, which is that weird glass and globe room where you can talk into the wall and hear it on the other side?
Marc:Oh, no, totally.
Guest:That's all I remember.
Guest:My memory of being there is I went to some church service, and there was a woman in the crowd with an enormous goiter on her neck, like the size of a human head.
Guest:I remember that was the first moment.
Guest:I was like, something's off here.
Guest:I think that could be taken care of.
Guest:It's like, seriously?
Marc:Did you have to deal with that in your life where you were ill or you had a family member that was ill and they were like, no, just pray and it'll go away?
Guest:Well, fortunately, I was pretty healthy growing up, so we didn't have it.
Guest:But my dad, you know, towards the end of his life, he got in his 60s, he got diabetes.
Guest:And I guess he didn't treat it for a long time.
Guest:He didn't go to the doctor.
Guest:He didn't know.
Guest:And he lost his eyesight.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:That was a friend.
Guest:I'm like, oh, boy, that's not good.
Marc:But was it just because he didn't know or because he was operating within the faith?
Guest:I think it might have been both.
Guest:I think it might.
Guest:I think probably when he found out, he tried to power through it with prayer.
Guest:And it's like, you know, it's tough.
Guest:I really had a split with it when I turned about like 17 because I was such a science head, like sci fi and studying science.
Guest:And the minute you start studying science, religion hangs on for its dear life.
Marc:Yeah, isn't that odd?
Marc:Because my father was actually a doctor, and he'd had a couple of incidents where Christian scientists would not allow treatment or medication.
Marc:And it's a really awkward position.
Marc:It's really one of those areas where science and faith really go head to head.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:Where you have a Christian scientist who's dying, and you're like, we could fix this.
Marc:And they're like, no, God will take care of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and the weird thing is actually not in defense of it, because I'm really I left a long time ago, but they they do say technically only handle what you think you can handle.
Guest:So the ones it's always, you know, there's nuts in every religion.
Guest:The ones are just like, no, no, no.
Guest:It's like, wow.
Guest:You know, that's that's.
Guest:And unfortunately, my dad, once he lost his eyesight, then he started taking his therapy.
Guest:But then it was too late.
Guest:And then he got Parkinson's.
Guest:But it literally killed my mom because she was so hardcore into it, not in like a dogmatic way, but just she liked a world where people weren't sick and you'd have to worry about doctors because then she was afraid of it.
Guest:And then suddenly my dad...
Guest:going through all this medical stuff.
Guest:And she just had to be there constantly doing the medicine.
Guest:And I think it literally killed her.
Guest:I mean, she just one day just died, you know, and she was always like full of life and energy and everything.
Guest:How soon after your father?
Guest:No, it was way before.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was the nightmare because, you know, dad was just really declining and my mom was tons of fun.
Guest:It was kind of like, okay, once dad's gone, this will be, you know, then we can travel with mom and everything.
Guest:I hope she doesn't die first.
Guest:And then she went down and then two years, you know, and then he hung around for two years.
Guest:Suddenly she died.
Guest:Yeah, just, I mean, literally out of the blue.
Guest:I saw her, you know, two nights before.
Guest:My wife and I had dinner with her.
Guest:My last image is her, like, on the elevator, like, giving her a friendly wave.
Guest:And then, yeah, then two days later, they called up and said, like, I've got bad news.
Guest:And she just didn't get up one day.
Marc:So you think that you're saying that, like, the denial that was afforded her by the religion was very exciting until she realized that people do get ill and something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She had a very rose-colored view of the world, which used to drive my grandmother on my father's side crazy.
Guest:The Jewish side.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How can you be so happy?
Guest:Well, that was her whole thing.
Guest:She would do this face.
Guest:I always wanted to punch my grandmother.
Guest:She would always do this thing.
Guest:She'd go like, you know your mother.
Guest:Everything has to be happy, happy.
Guest:And she'd make this insane kabuki face.
Guest:And she's like, shut up about my mom.
Guest:But they, boy, it was like our household.
Guest:I mean, my grandmother and my mom.
Oh, boy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They hated each other.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Did they all live together?
Guest:No, but my grandmother lived right by us.
Guest:So my cousins, my dad's brother and his family lived on the other side of Detroit.
Guest:So we were right at ground zero.
Guest:And they were still Jewish?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Everyone's Christian science.
Marc:But you still had this weird cultural affiliation with being Jewish.
Guest:Yeah, it was just everything, you know, under all the DNA was there.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so that's how we're.
Guest:Which is what defines most Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's just the DNA and the weird quirky behavior.
It's in us.
That's right.
Guest:But we were ground zero.
Guest:So we lived right by grandma.
Guest:So we had to go see, you know, she was always with us and she hated my mom.
Guest:And and my mom also, again, because of her rose colored glasses, wasn't used to that way of looking at life, which is, you know, my grandma just kind of everything's right.
Guest:You know, putting stuff down.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Nothing's good enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she took it very personal.
Guest:It wasn't until I got married, you know, my wife is Jewish and she like told my mom, you know, long after my grandmother's gone, like, no, you don't understand.
Guest:This is how it wasn't you.
Guest:This is kind of how it works.
Marc:Now, are you raising your kids Jewish?
Guest:No kids.
Guest:And if I know, but I'm total atheist.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I went hardcore off the way.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because like, you know, do you talk about atheism?
Marc:I mean, would you have conversations about it?
Marc:Or is it just that, you know, it's just where you're at?
Guest:Yeah, I don't I don't push it because I never want to make anybody feel weird about what they believe.
Guest:And if it works for them, it's fine.
Guest:If some if if their belief starts to interfere with my world, then I'll then I'll kind of take it on.
Guest:But I'm not.
Guest:Has that happened?
Guest:No, fortunately not.
Guest:Fortunately not.
Guest:I mean, other than like, you know, you're at a dinner party and somebody just drives you crazy.
Marc:Well, let me just ask you, because I don't align myself as an atheist, but I don't believe in God, but I don't find myself worrying about any of it too much.
Marc:But do you find that, in terms of the basic terror of being alive, how do you handle that?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:Through comedy.
Guest:And dressing nicely.
Guest:Yeah, dressing nicely.
Guest:I mean, there is something to that, I think.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Yeah, I would love to live in a world where all the men wear suits and ties and the women wear beautiful dresses.
Marc:I think it's about order.
Guest:It's about having some sort of decorum and some consistency in your life.
Guest:If life was just one big fancy cocktail party where everybody did the right thing, I would be so happy.
Guest:When did you become that guy, though?
Guest:When did you, like, I'm wearing a three-piece suit every day?
Guest:When I was a kid.
Guest:I mean, I got into it when I was a kid.
Guest:I loved fashion.
Marc:What inspired you?
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Just fashion in general?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I think just watching movies and stuff, and I just like the look of it.
Guest:I read early when I was a kid, I was obsessed with Groucho Marx and read a biography about him.
Guest:And one of the things it said that he would dress up all the time and he had a very low opinion of men who didn't dress up.
Guest:So I was kind of like, oh, that kind of sparked in my head.
Guest:And then my mom just, you know, my mom, all she needed was any sign of like you were into something and she would just enable it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I was an only child.
Guest:We should say that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had that going for me.
Guest:So you had the imaginary world.
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Now, what brought you to Groucho?
Marc:Because if you really think about it, it seems like the exact scene we're talking about in Bridesmaids is a Marx Brothers scene.
Guest:Yeah, oh, totally.
Marc:I mean, you know, the scene in that moment in the bridal shop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, everything that comes after that, the sort of group nature.
Marc:of the comedy.
Guest:The group chaos.
Marc:And also the different types of comedic personalities that were involved.
Marc:I mean, that was a fairly straight up Marx Brothers orchestration of comedy.
Guest:Yeah, you know what it was?
Guest:I had a religious experience.
Guest:I've had more, like, religion means nothing to me because my religious experiences have been because of movies and television and music and all that thing.
Guest:And my big religious experience was they re-released, you remember this?
Guest:When we were kids, they re-released Animal Crackers in the theaters.
Guest:okay yeah i do kind of remember that yeah and my mom my mom god bless her she would always try to encourage me to to you know to get into stuff and she was like you have to come see this movie we're gonna go see it so we went to this huge theater uh far from our house like a big nice old theater yeah it was the americana it was like where they would always premiere like star wars okay so the huge place so we got in there and it was half filled with um like college students uh-huh and
Guest:they went crazy over the film and i remember just sitting there like in an out-of-body experience so how old were you oh god what was i probably like seven so this is like so 69 so this is a pretty arty looking bunch of college students yeah imagining oh totally like real cool so you're kind of like oh they're so cool yeah yeah and they're like losing their losing their shit and i was like elevated me like i want to do that like i filled with this kind of you know you want to create that kind of excitement totally totally and what music was that what so that's one religious experience what was the music one
Guest:The music one was when I got to college.
Guest:All I cared about was comedy.
Guest:You know, I wouldn't do drama.
Guest:I didn't care anything about that.
Marc:And what did that look like when you went to college?
Marc:So all you did was comedy.
Marc:You weren't doing stand-up.
Guest:I was actually.
Guest:I did start doing stand-up when I was 15 years old.
Guest:There was a comedy.
Guest:It was when, you remember when Make Me Laugh came on?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, and that was the thing that I think started the whole comedy club movement.
Marc:Bruce Babyman bomb.
Guest:Yep, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but Mike Binder, who was also local, he was a Detroit guy.
Marc:Mike Binder was a very funny guy.
Marc:So funny.
Marc:As a stand-up, the fact that he didn't stay in it for a career was sort of our loss because he was like a golden boy.
Marc:I mean, he was like this 20-year-old kid.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:And he was so fucking funny.
Guest:I mean, we would watch him, and it just blew my mind because he was so funny, and he was local.
Guest:So it was kind of like, I could do it.
Guest:He must have been like 18 years old then.
Guest:Oh, I was 15.
Guest:How old was he?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He couldn't have been more than 19 or 20.
Guest:He looked like he was actually had.
Guest:He was kind of the baby face kid or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you are you friends with him?
Guest:I've met him, but no, I don't really know.
Guest:He's a filmmaker now.
Marc:Oh, I know.
Guest:He's this guy.
Guest:I really admire what he does.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So.
Guest:OK, so you did stand up a little bit or how long did you do that for?
Guest:Well, I did when I was 15.
Guest:I did it for for a few months and I was horrible.
Guest:I mean, just horrible.
Guest:But what was your approach?
Guest:I mean, who were your models?
Guest:You know, you had to copy everybody.
Guest:I was doing Johnny Carson style jokes.
Guest:I remember one of my punch lines was about if what was I was like something about Godzilla.
Guest:And if he came and attacked here, you know, and after you after you kill him.
Guest:So he's laying there.
Guest:What do you do with his body?
Guest:And then my punch line was what you do is you send it to New Jersey because they won't notice the smell.
Guest:It's like, why am I making a New Jersey joke?
Guest:I live in New York.
Guest:I live in Detroit.
Guest:I've never been in Jersey in my life.
Marc:But you actually were.
Marc:We're in a city.
Marc:It was just equally a city.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I had the perfect setup.
Guest:If I had said Zug Island, I would have got a huge laugh.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you went with the classic New Jersey.
Guest:I powered through.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Oh, so musically, all I cared about was comedy.
Guest:I get to film school, not to film school, Wayne State University, and took a film class.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they showed the conversation.
Marc:Film history class?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, the conversation, Gene Hackman, Coppola's movie.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And that soundtrack, that David Shire piano soundtrack.
Marc:It was all jazz.
Guest:It was all minimalist piano.
Guest:And it's the most haunting score, but it's that kind of thing where you go like, oh my God.
Guest:Suddenly, I didn't care about... I saw there's something beyond comedy in this marriage.
Guest:When you can marry the music to the sound, to the picture, that was another like, oh my God.
Marc:So that was a mixture.
Marc:Both of these, that was music and kind of connected with film as well.
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Marc:And what about TV?
Marc:What were the TV...
Guest:Oh, gosh.
Guest:Thank my mom again.
Guest:She had read when All in the Family was coming on that it was a great show.
Guest:And she sat me down in front of the TV and said, you have to watch this show because it's supposed to be a very important show.
Guest:And I watched the first episode of All in the Family, and that blew my mind because I hadn't heard that kind of laughs on TV before.
Marc:And also that type of addressing the cultural kind of cauldron that was happening.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:And just that, I mean, the performances on that are so pure.
Guest:I mean, you know, Carol O'Connor's performance on that show is one of the most masterful things I've ever... Because that defines... I think I've taken more of my comedy from his performance, just in general.
Guest:Just because the ability to...
Guest:be grounded and be real, but be so over the top with all that physicality.
Guest:It's really a masterful.
Guest:It's one of the best performances ever, I think, anywhere.
Marc:And he was great at the slow burn.
Marc:Oh, you know, like he had, you know, like as angry and as and he had a lot of heart, obviously, and the character is fully grounded.
Marc:But boy, he could take a moment and just let it.
Marc:That's those slow turns.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But then all the interaction.
Guest:I got to work with Bill Macy, who played Maud's husband on the Maud show.
Guest:And he was interesting.
Guest:He said, Norma Lear was always saying, like, louder, louder, because it was from a theater background.
Guest:So it's weird to watch it because it's very theatrical, and yet I completely buy it.
Guest:Who used to say that?
Guest:Lear?
Guest:Yeah, apparently Norma Lear.
Guest:Yeah, that was his whole thing because he wanted this to be like a theater piece, like throw your voice to the back of the auditorium.
Marc:In vaudeville, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But somehow it worked in a way that like when I watch a lot of sitcoms over the last 10 or 20 years, it feels so stagey to me.
Guest:But but for some reason, they were more stagey.
Guest:But it just worked because I think they all believed it.
Guest:And that's always been my theory on comedy is like as long as you believe it and you love these characters and you believe in the character and the person playing the character likes the character they're playing, then you can go anywhere with it.
Marc:And I would imagine that during All in the Family and during even Maude and some of those early ones that were performed in front of a live audience that wasn't playing a part.
Marc:It seems like the audience is expected to play a part and they're completely tolerant of the experience.
Marc:And if they have to reshoot 20 times and they got a stage manager that the idea of projecting, even if he brought the sound levels down once he edited the show, the connection that they were reaching out to the back of the room and pulling the audience in by virtue of their performance.
Guest:Yeah, you feel the audience being surprised constantly.
Guest:It's the same thing why I love British comedy, because for some reason, British audiences, you just feel they're in the moment.
Guest:And yeah, you don't feel, I don't know, for some reason, I just don't feel like American audiences are in the moment on a lot of those soundtracks.
Guest:I will say, I don't watch it a lot, but when I've gone past the Big Bang Theory, that seems to have that feel, like people are really aggressively...
Marc:Well, I know that show is funny to a certain, like my mother likes that show.
Marc:You know, my mother is, I'm not allowed to say her age, but she's not, you know what I mean?
Marc:But she, she finds it funny.
Marc:So those characters must be doing something.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:So when you came to Hollywood, so what was your degree in, with, in school?
Marc:What'd you?
Guest:Well, I did two years at Wayne State University as a mass communications major.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:The broad.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Everything falls under there.
Guest:Entertainment, PR, whatever.
Guest:You're writing those TV scripts that have the line down the middle.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Action on the side.
Yeah.
Guest:But then I, but what happened was I, um, in 81, I wanted to get into showbiz.
Guest:I wanted to be an actor, uh, cause I'd always been acting and doing all that.
Guest:And, um, called to Hollywood, all the studios to see if, uh, they were looking for actors.
Guest:You just called?
Guest:Yeah, I would call cause somebody sent me a company of variety and it would have like, you know, the studio and their main number.
Guest:And God, do you need actors?
Guest:Did you really do that?
Guest:They go, we need CPAs.
Guest:And it's like, I don't, I don't do that.
Guest:You just called general.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I cold called.
Guest:But then the last one on the list, Universal Studios, I can only say, well, we're looking for tour guides.
Guest:And when I was a kid, we had come out here and taken a tour.
Guest:And I always remember at the end of Animal House and all that when they'd have the thing of like, when in Hollywood, go visit.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:So I was like, I'm in.
Guest:So they said, we got to be here in two days because that's when we're going.
Guest:So I finished my last final exam.
Guest:Got my friend Mike Sampson in the car, and we drove straight through, like, alternating shifts all the way, you know, without sleeping or stopping to get here.
Guest:And I went into the audition or the meeting for it and got taken into the training program.
Guest:And so then basically got hired to do it and spent the summer doing it being a tour guide.
Marc:Well, and that was when the big draw was the Red Sea, right?
Marc:It was before the shark?
Marc:No, we had the shark.
Guest:Oh, you had the shark.
Guest:The shark had kind of just come in.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I fell in Jaws Lake once.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That was during a tour.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, because we were on the tram, and you know how the dock would kind of go to the side?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And some woman had a clog, and it fell into the water.
Guest:So I walked back up the plank to get on.
Guest:I was reaching, and the dock reset, and I fell in.
Guest:And I thought I was going to get killed, because actually, because that Jaws thing was coming back, and there's all these gears and pulleys under there.
Guest:It's like, oh, shit, I'm going to get sucked in.
Marc:You're going to get killed by a mechanical shark.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That would be a noble way to go.
Guest:Oh, what a sad way to go.
Guest:Were people concerned?
Guest:No, they couldn't care less.
Guest:They were all laughing and taking pictures.
Marc:I want to find one of those pictures someday.
Marc:Okay, so you're the guy who's pushing people through this tour, being entertaining.
Guest:Yeah, and then I had another religious experience, which was went to the opening day of Raiders of the Lost Ark at the Chinese Theater and just blew my mind.
Guest:I think that's the first time I ever...
Guest:really kind of figured out what a filmmaker does for some reason I would always watch movies as an actor before and so like oh I want to be that or what even like Close Encounters my takeaway from that was like I want aliens to come down and take me away it wasn't like I want to make cool movies like that right but Raiders was kind of just suddenly go like that's what movie making is all about you could really feel that the power of the build and the montage and you know and again like an audience going crazy
Guest:That scene with the boulder, I think.
Guest:That was the mind block.
Guest:That thing came down.
Guest:I've never heard an audience since go that, like, just scream like that.
Marc:I think you're right.
Marc:And I think there's a few of Spielberg's movies that are sort of really kind of master's classes.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:in building momentum and building suspense.
Marc:I mean, I'm not disregarding Hitchcock or anything else, but I mean, Jaws and Raiders, I mean, just the way he edited those things is pretty fucking amazing.
Guest:And Close Encounters.
Guest:I mean, that's a masterful movie.
Guest:I mean, there's been a lot of movies kind of made like that.
Guest:And every time you watch it, all you do is think like, wow,
Guest:Close Encounters is a great movie.
Guest:That's all I can think when I'm watching these other films.
Marc:Yeah, I got a little heady about Close Encounters at some point because I took film classes when I was in college, film theory.
Marc:I studied film criticism.
Marc:But the idea that he had Truffaut there and that the primary means of communication with another species from space was light and sound.
Marc:I'm like, this is a metaphor about film, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like your guys reading into it, man.
Marc:It's pure metaphor.
Marc:Truffaut's there, light, sound.
Marc:I think you're right, though.
Guest:I like that, though.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'll give him credit for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Have you met Spielberg?
Guest:No.
Guest:All this week, I've been at all these events that he's been at, and I've been too chicken to say hello.
Marc:He seems like one of the sweeter, more powerful people.
Guest:Yeah, you know, and I should go up there because when we were doing Freaks and Geeks, it was, you know, DreamWorks and that, you know, so I actually, you know, he was, he came to our first screening.
Guest:I know he was in the back of the thing and I wrote him once a thank you and he sent me this note, like how much he liked the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I still have not had the nerve to go up and say,
Marc:Really?
Marc:And he was right there last night.
Guest:You couldn't just- You know, I live in constant fear of going up to people and they go like, get the fuck away from me or go like, oh, what's he doing?
Guest:I'm so afraid of embarrassing moments that I just kind of want to avoid them at all costs.
Marc:That's interesting because as a comedic fan and perhaps a comedic performer, which you've done, that transcending embarrassment is really part of our drive.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:And you surrender to it though in these situations.
Guest:Yeah, well, I love to portray it when I'm writing stuff and filming stuff and shooting all that.
Guest:But I don't want to live it because it happens anyway.
Guest:Because my whole problem in life is I've always been an optimist, like a real optimistic.
Guest:So I always think everything's going to be great.
Guest:And so everything, there's nowhere to go but down from there.
Guest:Well, that's true.
Guest:Yeah, you know, everything, all you can be is underwhelmed.
Marc:Yeah, well, I go the opposite way.
Marc:And now I'm finally, as I become middle-aged, I'm finding some middle area.
Marc:It doesn't have to be all black and white.
Marc:At some point, you just have to accept that life is frustrating and disappointing.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:See, I always tell people, like, my motto is expect the worst.
Guest:But sadly, it's not.
Guest:I say that, but I still kind of like, everything's going to be great, I know, secretly.
Guest:And then it's like, oh.
Marc:So how do you not be constantly broken hearted?
Marc:I am.
Guest:If it wasn't for sleeping, I would have killed myself.
Guest:I just realized sleeping is the greatest thing because it just resets my mood every day.
Guest:It's always wake up like, today's going to be great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But by the time I go to bed, it's like, oh, God, everything's horrible.
Guest:I hate everything.
Marc:Bring me to dreamland.
Marc:I had that this morning.
Marc:I'm like, I'm in the middle of a good dream.
Marc:And then you wake up and you're like, no, I'm not done yet.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:And then you can't reset to it because of nightmares.
Marc:Someone else is in there like, wait, how did we cast?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Especially a sex dream.
Marc:It never comes back.
Marc:No, no, you can't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you got to start over and then you're kind of half awake and then you're not sure it's a dream or am I actually doing this?
Guest:Although I am such a devoted husband.
Guest:I've been married for 17 years now that ever since I've been with my wife, I've never been able to have a completed sex dream.
Marc:Yeah, I find that I'm not married anymore, but even now, like, it's rare that they finish through.
Marc:I can't remember one where I finished.
Guest:No, and I always, in the dream, I'm always like, I can't, I'm married, I can't, I can't.
Guest:And even my wife, I, like, told her, she goes, like, just have sex in your dream.
Guest:It's like, but I don't know, because I'm always thinking, like, what if it's not a dream, you know?
Guest:But it's the perfect way to get out of something.
Guest:You're like, I thought I was dreaming, honey.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, you can't have sex by yourself.
Guest:You know that, right?
Guest:Well, yes.
Guest:So I've been told.
Guest:I got to get me one of them computers things.
Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so you're primarily acting, right?
Marc:Because you did a lot of episodic stuff, and you showed up places.
Guest:I had like 15 years of making my living as an actor.
Marc:Right, so that was the dream, and you were kind of living it, but where did Freaks and Geeks come from?
Marc:That was the first big project, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, when I was an actor, I was like a regular on like five different TV series that all went like a year and then they get canceled.
Guest:Which ones?
Guest:Started with Dirty Dancing, the TV series where I worked with McLean Stevenson.
Guest:Then there was the Good Sports with Ryan O'Neill and Farrah Fawcett.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Then the Tom Arnold show, the Jackie Thomas show.
Marc:And you worked with a lot of these fairly prominent TV actors, Farrah Fawcett.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:And did you have fun doing that?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:But what would happen is I would always befriend all the writers.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:the simpsons and all great writers so i mean and gary too yeah i mean like the most amazing people so for me it was almost like you know the actor other actors on various shows would be i'm kind of arguing about their lines i don't like this and i'd be more like siding with the writers you know and even like i'd make lectures to sometimes of the actors go like come on you guys you have to say the line try to make it work three times if it doesn't work then we can address it you know but because they oh i don't want to do this you were saying that as an actor yeah i was i would kind of
Guest:Because I think that it seems to me that always in your heart was this directing thing.
Guest:Totally, totally.
Guest:I always wanted to do it.
Guest:I knew I wanted to do it.
Guest:I used to make, you know, Super 8 films when I was a kid with my friend Mike next door.
Guest:The stop action kind where you drive around?
Guest:Oh, yeah, we did.
Guest:Oh, yeah, totally.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Driving down the street on my ass and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, I love that.
Guest:So, yeah, I was always drawn to it.
Guest:And in every series I would be on, I would write an episode of the show and like give it to the writers and get their feedback and all that.
Guest:And then the show would get canceled.
Guest:But so we couldn't do it.
Marc:But when did you sort of at what point?
Marc:Like, I guess with I don't know who wrote on the Gary Shandling show, but I mean, Gary, obviously a brilliant writer.
Marc:And when did you start meeting?
Guest:the you know the guys of your generation that you sort of seem to align yourself a little bit with like judd apatow and you seem to know ben stiller and all those guys we a lot of it was from stand-up uh you know judd and i were stand-ups together and i i did stand up professionally for for about five years like oh that came back second half of the 80s yeah yeah i actually went hardcore at it and where'd you work here yeah it was mostly west coast um what was your club
Guest:Well, I mean, I was actually kind of Hermosa Beach.
Guest:I was Comedy Magic a lot.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just went down there for the first time the other night, believe it or not.
Marc:Oh, you're kidding.
Guest:Oh, that was the best.
Marc:Yeah, he's a sweet guy.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:Mike?
Marc:Oh, is it still Mike?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He owns a place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's a very interesting guy.
Guest:That was back when Jimmy Miller was running it.
Guest:He was booking the place.
Marc:Was he booking it?
Marc:But I think Mike always owned it.
Marc:yeah yeah definitely right jimmy miller right so that's you met jimmy miller so that puts you in line and that's where apatow he was jimmy miller's guy yeah i mean this was i think before he was though i mean i remember no judge he was like 17 oh because jimmy used to book a few clubs i mean his you know him you know dennis miller was the comedian and jimmy and rich were the bookers and managers right and uh
Marc:Yeah, I remember meeting Jimmy back then, but now Jimmy's huge.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But he obviously got into it way back then as a booker, as many of those guys do.
Marc:So you knew Judd since he was... Yeah, like 17 years old.
Guest:We all hung out at this place called The Ranch.
Guest:Have you ever heard of that?
Guest:It was like...
Guest:The Higgins Boys and Gruber and Dana Gould.
Guest:Everybody kind of came through those doors and hung out there.
Guest:We'd all do stand-up, and then we'd come back there and drink coffee, and they'd smoke cigarettes.
Guest:I didn't smoke, and we'd play poker all night.
Guest:And that was our thing for years.
Marc:Judge smoked cigarettes?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:And Dana didn't either.
Guest:No, but it was Dave...
Guest:Dave Higgins and Steve Higgins.
Guest:Steve runs SNL now.
Guest:They were a little rougher around the edges.
Marc:I can't see you, Dana, and Judd are kind of like the nerd crew.
Marc:Oh, no, totally.
Guest:And then the Iowa guys were like, yeah.
Guest:We didn't even really drink then.
Guest:It wasn't even like beer and stuff.
Guest:It was just a pot.
Guest:It was just like, okay, we're just drinking soda and eating too much.
Marc:And when did you meet?
Marc:Because Sandler came in later, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I knew Sandler a lot just because of the stand-up circuit, and we were all auditioning together all the time, like Spade, you know, all those guys were kind of my contemporaries.
Guest:Right, that was like the late 80s, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah, totally, totally.
Guest:And then they all got huge on screen, and I kind of, you know, I didn't flounder around.
Guest:I did pretty well, but it wasn't until like the late 90s or mid to late 90s when I was on Sabrina the Teenage Witch.
Marc:With my friend Caroline.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, we love Caroline.
Guest:Caroline Ray.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So much fun.
Guest:And yeah, and that was great.
Guest:And it was like, I finally got on a show that was a hit.
Guest:So I was like, oh, I did it.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:And you were every episode?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I was one of those seven out of 13 guys.
Guest:But that was a big show.
Guest:So you made a little.
Guest:Yeah, it was pretty good, and they would write me into extra episodes, so I really felt like I made it.
Guest:As an actor, you're just looking for that.
Guest:Somebody's going to take care of you for seven years.
Guest:Sure, hell yeah.
Marc:Stash a little money.
Marc:That's the weird thing about show business.
Marc:It's hard work, and people sort of dismiss that, but if you can lock into something where you can save a little money.
Guest:Yeah, and that's exactly what this was.
Marc:And then how did Freaks and Geeks come about?
Marc:Was that the first thing you really actively developed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a spec script that I wrote.
Guest:The short version of it was I finished my first season on Freaks and had $30,000 in the bank.
Guest:I wanted to finally make my own feature film.
Guest:So during that time, I wrote this small movie that took place in a field with four people in one day.
Guest:So I was like, okay, I can do this for $30,000.
Guest:But it wasn't video back then.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:What was it about?
Guest:It was called Life Sold Separately.
Guest:And it was about four people who show up who don't know each other, who all show up in a field.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Having been given some kind of information from the beyond that a spaceship was going to come and take them away because it was a clunky metaphor for for a suicide.
Guest:oh really yeah and uh and they kind of meet in this field and they kind of feature figure it out yeah feature length yeah and then pendulettes in it uh where's that movie it's it's on my shelf i call it i call it the world's most expensive party day but it actually it's actually i'm very proud of it i i do want to put it out it's one of those things i'm just trying to figure out kind of what to do with it and there's some music clearance i'd have to do and i'm far too lazy to to do it we couldn't remix the music and uh maybe cut a deal with netflix and
Guest:That's what I wanted.
Guest:I actually think if I can sell it on iTunes or something.
Guest:So it will find the light of day.
Guest:I mean, look, it's not great.
Marc:But people love you, and you've got an amazing cult following and a lot of respect.
Marc:If you're not ashamed of it, you can put it out.
Marc:No, it's my low-rent Seacaucus 7 or whatever.
Marc:That was the tone then.
Marc:You don't see those kind of movies anymore.
Marc:No, totally.
Marc:That are sort of extended metaphors through conversation and emotional subtext.
Guest:Yeah, oh no, definitely.
Guest:But also the negative got fucked up because I hired this guy.
Guest:It was a movie where I was bumping everybody up from a position they had not, you know, to a position they hadn't done before but wanted to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And had great success with it.
Guest:Everybody from DPs to, you know, everyone.
Guest:And I got to the negative cutting.
Guest:I was like, here's this guy.
Guest:He worked at Christie's or whatever it was like, the editorial house.
Guest:And he's like,
Guest:I want to be negative.
Guest:And I've done a bunch.
Guest:So it's like, this is perfect.
Guest:We'll end it with this.
Guest:And he completely fucked up my negative.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:So where every, every cut had a big flash at the bottom of the screen.
Guest:So I've never had like a great copy of it.
Guest:So it's all off of a work print.
Guest:So it doesn't look great, but also it looks a little, maybe it's even cooler.
Guest:It's kind of, it's got a, you know, a Texas chainsaw massacre.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:A little toe pooper going on.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Very grainy.
Marc:So what, what, um, who else was in that?
Guest:Oh, it's Dave Gruber-Allen, who was Mr. Rosso on Freaks and Geeks.
Guest:And Steve Bannis, who played Mr. Kaczewski.
Guest:And then my friend Carrie Coleman, who's great.
Guest:And she's in a ton of commercials.
Guest:And you know her when you see her.
Guest:And then Penn.
Guest:And myself.
Guest:I starred in it.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's another reason why I'm kind of going, I don't know if I want to release this.
Guest:It's a Paul Feig vehicle.
Guest:It's a sensitive Paul Feig vehicle, too.
Guest:I'm actually a guy who's on Prozac and stuff, but I go off my Prozac and then I kind of have a break.
Marc:Just to feel what it's like to be alive again.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Oh, I'm never releasing this movie.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:I'm never going to see the light of time.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Okay, so you wrote the script for Freaks and Geeks.
Marc:Let's talk about, before I get into how it came to be made, because to me, I watched it, I didn't watch it when it was on.
Marc:I watched it recently after people telling me about it a lot, and I locked in, and I watched all of it in a row, the whole thing.
Marc:And it's my time.
Marc:I'm the same age as you, so all of that stuff was incredibly familiar.
Marc:And the interesting thing about high school,
Marc:Is that for years, the archetypes of high school remain the same.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That, you know, it wasn't until, you know, disco and punk, you know, kind of displaced everything.
Marc:And now I don't know what it looks like now, but I imagine it's really still about outfits and music.
Guest:I have to think that.
Guest:That's why I wanted it set at a period time.
Guest:A, because I just knew that period.
Guest:I want to recreate that.
Marc:It's so specific.
Marc:And it's so interesting how important, you know, music was and the sort of like the separation.
Marc:It was really just, you got, you've got the jocks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You've got the stoners.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you've got the nerds.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that's it.
Guest:No, totally.
Guest:I say life is perpetual high school.
Guest:I don't think that ever changes.
Guest:I don't think that dynamic ever changes now at our age and in the workforce.
Guest:There's always bullies and assholes and jogs.
Guest:So I just like to kind of portray that.
Guest:But also for me, it was just –
Guest:Fun to just show the people that hadn't been shown before in a way that they hadn't been shown, which is how they really were.
Guest:Because, you know, it seemed years of like, the nerd, he's got tape on his glasses.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And all the kids were following.
Guest:They have problems with dating and they're really cool.
Guest:It's like, who gives a shit about that?
Marc:Yeah, the jock has no depth and he's just a bully until he learns his lessons.
Guest:Then we love him.
Guest:And it's just like, ugh, I didn't, you know, because I actually had great guilt in calling it funny.
Guest:calling it freaks and geeks in the sense i didn't like the word geeks because we weren't called geeks back then we had nerds right but we weren't nerds necessarily it was like a couple of nerds in our school who were like hardcore nerds like would carry the briefcase and kind of like sweaty and weird with the with the belt and the pants yeah like literally where you're like wow he's really a nerd right but we were just awkward kind of we didn't have a group and so that to me was more like the geek that just kind
Marc:Well, I was part of that, too.
Marc:The group, or as an individual, you could sort of move with a certain amount of finesse through all the other groups.
Guest:Yeah, and comedy was the way through.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:I did comedy, and I won the talent show twice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My comedy magic act is all the magicians.
Marc:So which character is you, for the most part?
Guest:Pretty much Sam Weir.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sam was me then, and then the Lindsay character was me in my 30s when I was making the show.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:It was basically all my angst.
Guest:The guy in his 30s has, I figured, yeah, smart 16-year-old girl.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Grappling with religion and stuff.
Marc:Well, yeah, Sam was great, and then the other guys were... Well, okay, so you've got this script, and then what happens?
Marc:Because, like, that can die.
Guest:Well, yeah, it was when I was out on tour with Life Sold Separately.
Guest:I spent a year trying to get into festivals, couldn't get it anywhere, and finally got on this thing called a Flix Tour, which...
Marc:This is the movie.
Guest:Yeah, where I had to drive around the country to these unknown colleges and show it, which is very good.
Guest:But when I was out there, I was like, I'm going to go crazy if I don't write something.
Guest:So I wrote Freaks and Geeks in like two weeks.
Guest:And it just came out really well.
Guest:And it's my wife who, when she read it and loved it, she was like, you got to send this to Judd.
Guest:Where was Judd at then?
Guest:He had just come off of the Larry Sanders show.
Guest:So this was his moment to take the next thing.
Guest:Yeah, he made this huge, huge deal at DreamWorks.
Guest:I mean, millions of dollars of deal.
Guest:And when he saw Life Sold Separately, when I premiered it months and months earlier, he said, hey, if you have an idea for a TV show you think I would like, let me know because I got this deal.
Guest:And I waited.
Guest:And then when I had this, so I sent it to him, and he within 12 hours said, we want to buy it, and let's do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it was a real whirlwind.
Guest:I mean, going literally from the worst year of my life because I spent all my money on that movie.
Guest:And then they called me up when I was in editorial from Sabrina and said, oh, we're writing you out of the show.
Guest:So it was like, oh, shit.
Guest:Yeah, like I'm completely broke now.
Guest:I bankrupted the family on the scrap of the movie.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Yeah, basically.
Guest:Yeah, pretty much.
Marc:God, isn't it weird now that you could make that movie for, you know.
Marc:That's what makes me crazy.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Like with the technology we have now, you can do it for nothing.
Guest:Literally nothing.
Guest:I have a flip camera.
Guest:Every computer you buy has a non-linear editing system.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I could do it on my phone.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:We could do it on the phone.
Marc:I'm telling you.
Guest:This one has an editing system on it.
Guest:When I go to film schools, I'm always kind of like, if you guys aren't making movies, you are fucked up.
Guest:No excuse.
Guest:No excuse.
Guest:Down to even distribution you got.
Guest:I mean, if we had that, it's like an old man.
Guest:If we had that 20 years ago, I would have gone out of my fucking mind.
Marc:Sure, it's all on you.
Marc:You can get your movie seen one way or the other.
Guest:The shit I would have been cranking out.
Marc:Wouldn't it be amazing?
Guest:Would have been awful.
Marc:Well, that's the downside.
Guest:I mean actual shit.
Marc:Well, that's sort of interesting that with the facility of being able to have this much control and have this much technology at your fingertips and have it to be reasonable in terms of financial burden.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's really interesting to see people who come from a different generation that's labored using liquid paper and using 16 millimeter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I wonder what it would have been like had their creativity been shot all over the place with the ability to do that.
Guest:It is very curious.
Guest:I mean, it's the same thing with directors.
Guest:Back when it was like the studio system and you worked for a studio and you just made film after film because they just assigned you movies.
Guest:I mean, part of me goes, I think that might have been the healthier way to do it because now somebody makes one movie and it's great and all the pressure's on.
Guest:If your next movie isn't good, then you're kind of almost dead.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's like, God, who can learn their craft?
Guest:I mean, that's why I started directing tons of television in the last 10 years, because after Freaks and Geeks, you know, I tried to get some other shows off the ground and people wanted them and they didn't.
Guest:So then I made a feature film, misguidedly made this drama called I Am David, which I love.
Guest:I'm very proud of it.
Guest:But it's like, why am I doing a drama about a kidnap?
Marc:Is that just a directing job labor camp?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I wrote it and directed it.
Guest:It was sent to me as a book.
Guest:And I really I really kind of related to I think it's because my mom had died recently and is about a kid kind of trying to find his mom.
Guest:So I think there's a lot of weird psychology for me.
Marc:Did it help you process any of those feelings?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Yeah, kind of, but it also, I think, really put my career in a weird place.
Guest:Because you're a comedy guy.
Guest:Yeah, just a weird follow-up to follow up this respected comedy drama show with a story of a kid who grows up in a communist labor camp.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Is that available?
Guest:Yes, that is available on DVD.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, now the process with Judd, because it seems to me that it was a departure, because Judd had known, I mean, Larry Sanders was sort of a standard for blurring the line between comedy and drama, but having it be really considered a comedy.
Marc:But it was very close.
Marc:So that tone, I think, was a unique tone.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, the tone is very—it's a nice hybrid of he and I. I mean, that's why I love working with him, because we kind of augment each other's weaknesses, I think, sometimes.
Guest:I think he's really great at figuring out hilarious stuff, and I'm really good at figuring out kind of the heart and all that.
Guest:But we're both good at—
Guest:We have elements of the other thing, so we both can kind of do the... I talked to him a bit about it in our discussion.
Marc:Now, for you, being that Freaks and Geeks is such a finite piece of work, and the people that like it know it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What is your favorite moment in that series?
Marc:Oh, well... Like the one where everything sort of like to you was...
Guest:Well, for me, it's partly wrapped up in because I directed it too, so I can't divorce that from it.
Guest:I think it's when Nick breaks up with Lindsay right before he goes into the dance contest, the disco dance contest, is that moment where he's trying to put on a game face and their conversation is kind of coded and like, he's fine and she's fine.
Guest:That's cool.
Guest:And clearly he's dying inside and she's dying inside.
Guest:And then she walks away and he just like loses it.
Guest:And then he has to make this long walk.
Guest:to the dance floor and then dance it out.
Guest:That whole thing going all the way through then the flipping montages between the geeks playing with Franco's character and then Siegel kind of having this cathartic dance on the floor.
Guest:That to me is like...
Guest:That's where I go like that's kind of everything I ever wanted the show to be and everything I ever want to portray because it's funny and it's sad and it's it's the music is kind of augmenting and visually I think it's interesting.
Marc:And also there's that struggle for defining your identity.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That you know there are those walls you hit in high school where you know you're just fighting the fact that you're lost.
Guest:Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest themes in everything I do is outsiders.
Guest:And it's also about who am I and what is my place in the world?
Guest:That's I'm kind of obsessed with that because I don't I think I'm constantly always trying to figure out my place in the world.
Guest:I think everybody is, you know, even if you know what you're doing, you still don't know.
Guest:I mean, like now, you know, I'm officially a film director, but it's like, what do I do next?
Guest:I don't even know what kind of, you know, I have so many things I want to do.
Guest:But should I do something like that?
Guest:You know, a project that nobody would think I would do.
Marc:But I think ultimately, you know, you do find your place in yourself.
Marc:That, you know, to acknowledge that this is what's interesting to you.
Marc:I mean, the place in the world thing, that's a, you know, that's a weird kind of, you know, ego struggle.
Marc:And then, you know, how do you really know that you're there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I mean, if you like if you're still you're relatively humble about, you know, how you're thought of in the world and you're sort of self-effacing.
Marc:But but, you know, so you would think that would be enough.
Marc:You know, like, you know, your place in the world, but there's no.
Guest:No, it's weird.
Guest:Like, I still, like, when I see a great performance, I go like, oh, shit, maybe I should still be acting.
Guest:But then I'm like, but it's like, no, I wasn't that good of an actor, so why would I do that?
Guest:And then, like, I'll, you know, hear a great song.
Guest:It's like, oh, I should write more songs because I was a musician.
Guest:You know, it just, it never ends, and it's so dumb, you know?
Guest:But that's why I think, you know, then I look at guys like Scorsese and, you know, like,
Guest:That guy knows exactly what he wants to do.
Guest:He loves this and he's doing it and doing it.
Guest:I think in my career, it's almost why I haven't done more stuff because I'm always kind of like, well, maybe we should try this.
Guest:I'm always trying to – I'm jack of all trades, master of none a little bit.
Guest:It's my one drawback is I'm actually able to do a lot of stuff pretty well.
Guest:Like I was always like a –
Marc:pretty good you know i know i get that yeah i mean i got guitars laying all over the place i used to do uh photography and you know i consider myself this or that totally but the weird thing is is that and i don't know if you learned this about yourself is that there there's a certain sort of um the idea that if you just put more time into any of those things that you would be a genius at it is is a fallacy oh totally i i went through a period i was gonna i wanted to be a saxophone player
Guest:It was in my late 20s.
Guest:I bought this fucking saxophone and was trying to practice.
Guest:Somehow in my head, I was going to be Charlie Parker if I could just kind of put in a good few months on this thing.
Guest:And you're like, what the hell?
Guest:But I recorded one song where I played a saxophone track that was the most basic thing.
Guest:And so suddenly on my resume, I play the saxophone.
Guest:I had to join the musicians union because I wrote and performed the end credits song for Heavyweights, the movie.
Guest:And so by joining that, they said, what instruments do you play?
Guest:So I listed all the things that I could kind of get a tune out of.
Guest:And I kept getting all these calls like, hey, we have a session today and we see that you're a banjo player.
Guest:It's like, oh, shit.
Guest:Like, I'm going to show up at that thing and go clunk, plink, plink, plunk.
Guest:Oh, I can't read music.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:Get out.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:Because, I mean, I have found that in myself, that kind of that idea of like, you know, if I just applied myself, I could do this or that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It is sort of like it's it's it's it's a little inflated, but it also reveals a real insecurity that there's this weird kind of like, like, you know, like, yeah, I could do that.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:God forbid you ever get called on it or you ever push yourself to that point.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Marc:That moment where you realize, you know, I think you see it in Freaks and Geeks, even in the scene you're talking about where it's like, this isn't me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, that that's a hard realization to have.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:For a person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that's why I think I love the Parisian night suit episode.
Guest:Because, I mean, that really happened to me.
Guest:Where I actually, that we recreated the exact thing that I wore.
Guest:But I was a junior in high school.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:But it's that thing of like, I want to be like a fashion player.
Guest:I was going to be Mr. Disco or whatever.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I'm going to show the school.
Guest:And you get in there in the mid-year-old and you're like, oh, shit.
Guest:I'm a clown.
Guest:I'm a clown.
Guest:Why did I do this?
Guest:Everyone's going to beat me up.
Guest:And I look ridiculous.
Guest:And people are laughing at me.
Guest:And then you're stuck.
Guest:And so this is not me.
Guest:This is not who I am.
Marc:Yeah, but that.
Marc:That moment, man, where that that depth, the depth of embarrassment and the it's almost like a nuclear bomb in your soul.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Obliterates you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've got to walk through the day like it's so heartbreaking, but so common.
Guest:But that's what you need.
Guest:You need those things.
Guest:That's why I always kind of, you know, this whole kind of self-esteem movement that has gone on in the schools.
Guest:I feel it's destructive because horrendous.
Guest:You need that moment of going like I am shitty at this or I this is not who I am.
Guest:What am I need to be humbled?
Guest:Oh, totally.
Marc:Or else you don't know how to accept life's challenges and you don't know how to adapt and sort of find your way.
Marc:I have a real problem with sort of blind positivity because I think it's some sort of – it's kind of an exciting denial.
Marc:And then there's aggressive positivity where it's like, how is that not negative?
Marc:Oh, no, totally.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:You're being negative.
Guest:How do you frame that like that?
Guest:Well, I mean, I I won't go as far as saying I'm pro bully, but I do think there I hate to say because it was the worst times of my life.
Guest:But something about that bullying, I mean, you learn something from it, even if you just go like people are fucking assholes.
Guest:But you got to know this or I got to figure out how to navigate around these kind of people.
Marc:Did you ever find?
Marc:Well, that's interesting.
Marc:Thank God for the bullies.
Marc:I wouldn't know who I was.
Marc:But I find that with myself.
Marc:I mean, I've been a bully and I've been bullied.
Marc:And as a comic, you know, you can usually sort of charm bullies.
Marc:It's like Davey and Goliath or something like, you know, you kind of outsmart them with your, you know.
Marc:But but I've seen I see both sides of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I was always see I've I might one of my problems in life.
Guest:Life is I'm so afraid of conflict, like like chronically afraid of conflict that I just kind of.
Guest:I'll avoid it or play into it weirdly.
Guest:Like when I was a stand-up, if I had a heckler, I was the one who would kind of like, oh, like try to kind of joke along with him or something.
Guest:It never could be the guy like, hey, don't go to where you are and knock the dick out of your mouth or whatever.
Guest:But I always felt like, God, I wish I had a little more of that aggression.
Guest:Even today I don't have it, and I think it's a shortcoming.
Guest:Like the thought of yelling at somebody just like makes me want to die.
Guest:Oh, God, I wish I could help you.
Marc:I mean, because I'm good at yelling.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I have no problem with conflict as long as it's one-sided.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But as soon as someone else engages, then I'm always... It's peephole kind of conflict.
Marc:Like, I can yell, but when it comes back, I'm like, oh, I'm on... Can we... Game on.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Can we figure out another way to do this?
Marc:But now in... Because Judd's favorite moment was the Havershack, you know, watching... Well, yeah, that's him.
Guest:I mean, that is his life.
Guest:So this was both, like, about, like, you guys' personal experience.
Guest:oh yeah and we very much started living out our you know our lives and problems in our life through the show all the divorce stuff all that kind of stuff that's pure jud because my parents were together their whole life like i didn't and you guys wrote most of the stuff together or how did it work yeah i mean we would break it all together we had a room full of great writers and stuff but uh yeah we would it was you know he and i just kind of i'd always rewrite everything and then he'd get in there and do it and
Marc:Well, it's interesting because he's very clear, like, you know, as he gets older, like he wants to have some peace of mind.
Marc:He wants to be happy.
Marc:And there's a very active journey towards finding that.
Marc:And do you share that with him?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I mean, I think the difference is I don't have kids and he does.
Guest:And I know he's very like that.
Guest:That is his world.
Guest:And it's great.
Guest:I love that he has that.
Guest:And for me, you know, I've been married for 17 years, like I say, but I don't there's there's I think I'm always still searching around.
Guest:I think not having kids weirdly.
Guest:ungrounds you in that way.
Guest:But I don't mind.
Guest:I've never regretted it in a minute of my life.
Guest:The thought of having kids even today makes my stomach go nuts because I have that panic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just want to like explore.
Guest:I want to try everything.
Guest:And so I think I'm less looking for peace and looking more for satisfaction.
Guest:Looking for success isn't the right word because that's such a weird thing.
Guest:But just the ability to make sure that everything you do is good.
Marc:Well, I think that it seems to me that, you know, you have a certain acceptance over of what the human struggle is like.
Marc:And I think that documenting that is important.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That there are certain things about being a person you can't avoid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's interesting because it's as an atheist.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:You have to have a practical place, and there are certain things you have to accept.
Marc:Whereas I think that when I talk to Judd, there's a spiritual tone to some of the things he's saying.
Guest:Well, he's very spiritual, though.
Guest:I mean, he reads a lot of that stuff.
Guest:And I found I was much more... I was in better shape when I did believe in God, I have to say, because when that gets pulled out from under you, it is kind of like, oh, shit, the sender cannot hold...
Guest:Well, yeah, then you have to deal with the futility.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So then my religion becomes the projects I'm working on.
Guest:I mean, really.
Guest:And that's why.
Guest:So for me, fear of failure is just the most driving thing in the world.
Guest:Like it drives.
Guest:It keeps me up at night.
Guest:It just doing something that's not good that sucks.
Guest:So like, you know, now, of course, I should be enjoying Bridesmaids and all the success of it.
Guest:But all it does is make it like, oh, fuck the next thing.
Guest:If the next thing is not good, you know, or if it's so that just like keeps me up at night.
Guest:Like, what do I do next?
Guest:What do I do next?
Guest:So, you know, there's not a lot of peace of mind, but I'm thrilled that I get to do what I do.
Guest:And you're still doing good.
Marc:Well, I think it's very impressive that you're conscious of the fact that, you know, I mean, because you've directed a lot of episodes of The Office, Arrested Development.
Marc:You're obviously a respected comedy director in television, but you were very aware of the fact that, you know, I need to get these chops in place.
Marc:I need to learn more.
Marc:And this is a hands-on way to learn it.
Guest:Yeah, it was totally film school for me because, you know, when I did, you know, when I directed that last episode of Freaks and Geeks, it came out really well.
Guest:I was happy with it, but I still, there's a lot I didn't know.
Guest:When I went to film school, I didn't learn, you know, you don't learn that much.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I mean, you just got to, yeah, it's just basics.
Marc:Now, in heavyweights, you were just a performer in?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because my guy who I did comedy with in college wrote that, I think, was Steve Brill.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I love Steve.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's the greatest.
Marc:Yeah, him and I were best friends in college.
Marc:Oh, you're kidding.
Guest:I see Steve all the time.
Guest:We both work out of the Soho House in L.A.
Guest:That's kind of our office for writing.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:We just started to reconnect recently.
Marc:And I mean, we did comedy together.
Marc:We wrote a play together.
Marc:We wrote a screenplay together.
Marc:And then we went different directions.
Marc:We were very young.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And we didn't really talk much to each other for like 20 years.
Marc:And we're back together.
Guest:Kind of.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:It's kind of interesting.
Marc:Oh, I love that.
Marc:And I got to give him a buzz, actually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now if we could to help people who are making movies and trying to do that, I mean, what what outside of the wide shot, which we talked about earlier, what are some of the things you look for as a comedy director?
Guest:I look for it is realism in honesty.
Guest:I mean, that is the bottom line.
Guest:That's why Judd and I get along so well and work together so well.
Marc:Well, when you approach something like Arrested Development, though, which is a heightened world that has a skewed emotional core, when you talk about honesty, what do you refer to in directing?
Marc:How many episodes of that?
Marc:You directed a lot of them.
Guest:Yeah, I did like seven, I think, or eight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To me, that's emotionally honest.
Guest:I mean, Will Arnett's performance, as crazy as it is, is one of the most...
Guest:most vulnerable emotionally grounded real characters i've ever seen and that's why it's so funny because it's got it's got this you know this weird logic he has but it but he gets hurt really easily right emotionally hurt and and all of them i really you know i just connect to it what i don't like is anything that's kind of like look how crazy we are you know and or just or just blowing through jokes
Guest:Yeah, I mean, to me, the comedy of the 90s felt a little like it got in that world of like, hey, check it out, I'm crazy, but you know I'm not really crazy.
Guest:And it's like, I don't like that, because then nobody's committing, and it just feels like guys trying to get laid to me.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Like, look, I'm nuts, but I'm not, because I'm cool.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, yeah, so it's really just trying to find the things that I think can showcase...
Marc:humans you know even if that's interesting because no matter like even someone like Archie Bunker you get to any of these things if you really think about comedy no matter how broad the comedy is yeah like like I guess you can go right to clowning yeah because then you just have this manufactured you have an outfit you have a costume you have a tone yeah but you can always feel the heart of it yeah it's not about like that character is ridiculous it doesn't fucking matter a monster can show human emotion yeah I never want to not believe something to me the worst moment you can have in anything you do is if the audience goes like oh come on
Guest:Yeah, that wouldn't happen or that nobody would do that.
Guest:Then you've lost them and you've you've blown it.
Guest:You know, that's why I think, you know, I like action comedies if they can be done.
Guest:But that's why they always fall apart, because like at some point they have the funny villain.
Guest:It's like, well, now there's nothing now there's no stakes because, OK, he's crazy and he's goofy, you know, versus like a 48 hours like, holy shit, like these guys are executing guys.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like that's a real danger.
Guest:That's a real threat.
Guest:And I like that better.
Marc:Well, isn't that interesting about some of the movies of the 70s, the comedy cop movies where people actually died?
Marc:I mean, you don't really see that.
Marc:They think that's going to undermine the comedy, but I watched Freebie and the Bean recently, and they literally killed everyone in San Francisco.
Marc:Oh, totally, totally.
Marc:And there's still this wacky cop thing going on.
Guest:Yeah, because it's all about – it's the dirty word if you're in development or whatever because everybody says stakes.
Guest:You've got to raise the stakes, which is just – people say it and they don't think they know what they're saying, or a lot of times you just don't – it doesn't – but it's true.
Guest:There has to be stakes.
Guest:There has to be a lot at stake, whether it's your dignity or your –
Guest:I mean, the easiest thing is saving the world.
Guest:Of course, that's the biggest stakes in the world.
Guest:But a lot of times that has no stakes because then there's no emotional thing for anybody other than we got to save the world.
Guest:But I'd much rather see the story about the guy who's like trying to hang on to who he is.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Those are stakes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what do you think of the since you were there last night at the Golden Globes?
Marc:I mean, what do you think of the Descendants as a film?
Marc:I really liked it.
Marc:I really that was a kind of an interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To sort of have the center of your of your story, you know, speechless and in a coma.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What a device.
Guest:Oh, I know.
Guest:And Clooney's so good in that.
Guest:And it just I mean, but that's those to me are real stakes.
Guest:He's trying to figure out, you know, I love Moneyball.
Guest:I thought that I got to watch that.
Guest:It's awesome.
Guest:And Pitt is so good on it.
Guest:It just, again, really high stakes, a guy trying, you know, his career on the line, but also, like, dealing with his past.
Guest:You'll love it.
Guest:It's great.
Marc:And what, so what are you kicking around now?
Guest:I got a bunch of things in development.
Guest:I had one thing that was going to go, and then we had a little trouble with one of the cast dropped out, so I kind of fucked it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, but I'm really concentrating on trying to do, weirdly, I love doing things about women.
Guest:All my friends growing up have generally been women.
Guest:I'm always hanging out with the girls.
Guest:I find the comedy of women much more welcoming to me than guys, sometimes the aggression of guys.
Guest:I think it just comes from being kind of bullied and stuff.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I never kind of responded, hey, you fag, that name calling and all that.
Guest:Also, I had, I still do, Tourette's when I, you know, my whole life.
Guest:But not the screaming Tourette's, but just the ticking, you know, all kinds of.
Guest:I've gotten very good over my course of my life of hiding it.
Marc:Well, that's like self-cognitive therapy.
Marc:How did you, like, what were some of the manifestations?
Marc:I mean, you talk very frenetically, but I mean, I don't see anything.
Guest:A lot of it's internal, but there's always some visual tick, right?
Guest:At the moment, it's... I'm controlling it very well.
Guest:It's head shaking and blinking, but there's also a lot of touching the nose and that kind of thing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, but I would have... I went through... They would switch... Every year, they would switch into a new... You would feel your tick was about to change.
Guest:You'd hook onto something else, because for a while, it was blinking.
Guest:It was always blinking my eyes, blinking, blinking, blinking.
Guest:Then it was like...
Marc:wiggling my nose i do that a little yeah yeah but it was like obsessively i remember some girl like they go they start calling me like the rabbit or whatever it's just like oh so when people get out you thought you were hiding it when they catch on to it i think then you would change it up but so you're saying that like when you have it and you know you have it that you know there you've there's a it's um they call it stimming i think in the in the autistic world where where um where you you just focus in on an obsessive behavior because it's comforting somehow yeah so you make a choice
Guest:Yeah, you know what?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, a lot of it's internal.
Guest:A lot of it's clenching inside.
Marc:Does it feel good to do it?
Guest:It doesn't feel good, but you have to do it.
Guest:You know what it is.
Guest:And I guess there is some sort of comfort in it, but it's harrowing because you're exhausted when you're doing it, and you're constantly trying to hide it.
Marc:But you feel your brain saying, like, do it, do it, do it.
Guest:Oh, yeah, you can't not do it.
Guest:And you can't stop it.
Guest:For me, it's constant clenching inside.
Guest:And I used to talk to my doctor, like, I'm going to have a heart attack because I'm just clenching.
Guest:He's like, it has nothing to do with that.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:But for me, the shower is ground zero.
Guest:It just goes bananas.
Guest:I think it's just the overstimulation of...
Guest:water hitting you and stuff i go like walk out of the i always walk out of the shower like exhausted huh there's definitely a physical aspect to it because you can't not do it right um but but the weirdly because i've you know the research i've done on it there is you don't do when you sleep and weirdly it goes away when you're having sex yeah you know and that's a different zone i think mentally somehow yeah it's very bizarre um but yeah i don't know probably a good a great gift that you don't have it during sex yeah exactly
Guest:Or maybe not.
Guest:Maybe it'd be better.
Guest:That's my wife.
Marc:Depending on what the tick is.
Guest:But I guess for me, I guess the weird thing is that I can control it in the sense of I can kind of... I have to.
Guest:When I go on television or when I'm doing stuff, like being at the Globes last night is a bit of a nightmare for me.
Guest:Because my wife would go, oh, you were on camera a couple of times.
Guest:It's like, was I treading out?
Guest:And she's, oh, no, no.
Guest:Because sometimes I'll see...
Guest:like in for rehearsals they'll like tape them and i'll see me like doing some obsessive thing with my nose or blinking like really fast yeah oh shit yeah they'll be like cut that out you gotta cut that out um yeah it's just weird it just it just kind of it's it's it's one more thing to have to worry about but for but being conscious and aware of it you're able to control it a bit
Guest:Yeah, but I got made fun of it so much as a kid that I live in fear when I'm out in public of like, oh, somebody's going to start making fun of me.
Guest:There's nothing worse for me than if there's a group of teenagers around anywhere.
Marc:Even now?
Guest:Oh, I live in terror of teenagers.
Guest:So high school never ended?
Guest:No, never ended.
Guest:I live in terror of teenagers.
Guest:I do.
Guest:That's why I think I don't want to have kids, you know?
Guest:I never wanted to have kids.
Guest:But I hire them to work with them because then I'm in charge of them.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I can fire you if you make fun of me.
Marc:That's harrowing.
Marc:Because I've had that moment where I'll see jocks on the street and I'll be like, oh, be cool.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm 48 years old.
Marc:They're not even noticing me.
Marc:But it's not the same because if you have physical things, you know, teenagers are horrible, horribly cruel people.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Well, that's my fear is being like...
Guest:Clint Eastwood and Gran Torino, except he's a badass.
Guest:He can take a mom.
Guest:But I'm like, oh, if I look askance at some tough guys, then they're going to be a home invasion.
Guest:I'm sorry, Paul.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's terrible.
Marc:So I don't know how we got on this.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You want to work with women more?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just because, yeah, I feel more comfortable just kind of in that style.
Guest:And I think I'm good at it.
Guest:I'm a very feminized guy.
Guest:I really kind of see that side of things more.
Marc:Well, I think, like we said at the beginning, the ensemble crassness of Bridesmaids really kind of blew something open.
Marc:And I think it's sort of a sad indicator of culture that people are so amazed by that.
Marc:It's like, oh, chicks can be funny and crude.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It's so ridiculous.
Guest:I mean, how that even began, this question about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like Judd telling Jerry Lewis to fuck off the other night.
Guest:Did you hear that?
Marc:No, no, I didn't hear about that.
Guest:His acceptance speech at the Critics' Choice ends with, Jerry Lewis once said, because these are horrible quotes from Jerry like 15 years ago.
Guest:I remember that at Aspen Comedy Fest.
Guest:yeah women yeah yeah exactly so just like well jerry said women are funny with all due respect uh jerry fuck you in the end of this thing is like wow i'm standing on stage and judges told jerry lose to fuck up and we go jerry it wasn't me you were both up there because you won for bridesmaid yeah we won the best comedy for that yeah
Marc:Oh, I wish I had known that.
Marc:I'm such an idiot.
Guest:No, please.
Marc:But so what was your process with him on Bridesmaids?
Marc:Was he just overseeing it or did he?
Guest:Well, he I mean, he he was, you know, he kind of started it with with Kristen way back in 2007.
Marc:Was it his script?
Guest:No, no, it's hers.
Guest:But I said, you know, after had knocked up, it's like, you know, come up with something.
Guest:And so she wrote it and they developed it together for quite a while.
Guest:But then when I came on board full time at the beginning of like 2010, I
Guest:Yeah, then we all got in the room, and that's where we really do our process, and he and I are really hard on it and go back and forth.
Guest:It was always like doing Freaks and Geeks again.
Marc:Restructuring the moments and stuff like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you guys went over it a few times.
Guest:Yeah, and we had Annie Mumolo, who was Kristen's writing partner in the room with us all the time because Kristen was off doing SNL.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then, you know, Annie would get together with Kristen, but, you know, Judd would always call up and kind of break the bad news to Kristen of, like, we want to change this scene or we want to add this scene.
Guest:Were there any real obstacles or fights around scenes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, I know that they were as well.
Guest:They should have been very nervous about the dress shop scene because that's all execution based.
Guest:I mean, really, that was on you.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:But that's I kept saying, like, trust me, trust me, I'm not going to shoot this shitty.
Guest:I'm not going to make it.
Guest:You did shoot it shitty.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And then also the airplane scene, because they were always supposed to go to Vegas, and then Judd and I just, from the beginning, were like, oh, why do we want to take on The Hangover?
Guest:They did so well.
Guest:And I really wanted to showcase Kristen, because I'm her biggest fan, and I love when she does physical comedy.
Guest:It's like, what would be the funniest thing?
Guest:And I remember just kind of like...
Guest:What if they don't get there?
Guest:And then it kind of started, like, she's drunk on the plane.
Guest:Oh, my God, she'll be so hilarious at being drunk.
Guest:And Kristen is great.
Guest:Once she's got it in her head that we're going to do it, then she just goes for it with a gusto.
Marc:Were you surprised at the breakout performance of... Melissa?
Guest:Melissa McCarthy?
Guest:Yeah, I mean... No, I wasn't surprised, just because when she first came in, it was kind of like, holy shit.
Guest:I mean, we'd never seen the character done that way before.
Guest:She came in late in the process.
Guest:And then when we got into rehearsals and everything, it was just clear, like...
Guest:She's fantastic.
Guest:So actually that whole scene where she comes over and beats up Annie trying to adjust her attitude was originally supposed to be a call center woman from Mumbai who kept calling Annie to collect on the bills.
Guest:And then that woman was supposed to give her a speech on the phone.
Guest:It was like, you know what?
Guest:Melissa's so funny.
Guest:Let's have that character come over and do it.
Marc:That's such a great character.
Guest:Yeah, and then that got written.
Marc:This weird kind of aggressive, sexually dubious.
Guest:Yeah, but super complex.
Guest:That's why I think people love that character.
Guest:And hopefully she won't get put into roles where she plays the loser.
Guest:Because that's what's so groundbreaking.
Guest:The character you would think would be not confident is just the balls out.
Guest:Like, here's how it fucking is, and here's how it happens.
Guest:And I love that.
Marc:It's a real character.
Guest:Yeah, so much so.
Guest:And again, totally grounded and believable.
Marc:Okay, so the other projects you have, you don't want to... Yeah, they're all in development.
Guest:Mostly TV or movies?
Guest:Movies.
Guest:Movies, but there is one TV series I want to do.
Guest:I feel like it's very personal.
Guest:It's almost even more personal than Freaks and Geeks was, but in that same kind of tone.
Guest:Taking my books.
Guest:I have these two memoirs.
Guest:Kick Me and Super Stud.
Guest:Using those, I just really want to tell the real story of kind of...
Guest:To me, it's a coming of age, coming of middle age story about both my dad and myself and kind of going between the two.
Guest:It's a lot of funny, awkward episodes.
Marc:Do you have closure around all that stuff with your dad and your parents and everything?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, my parents were great and we were all, you know,
Guest:I'm one of the few comics to kind of come from a very happy home and not hate my parents and all that.
Guest:I'm sad that they're gone, obviously.
Guest:But no, I feel pretty good about that.
Guest:I don't have any regrets of like, oh, if only I had said this.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:How do you feel about the sort of love of Freaks and Geeks?
Marc:And also, are you disappointed now that you couldn't have gone further with it or done more?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I go back and forth.
Guest:I mean, the one thing you want when you do anything in this world of filmmaking and television movies is for what you did to last a long time and to just kind of, you know, be in the public consciousness forever, if possible.
Guest:And so because of that, we did, I'm kind of like, sometimes I almost feel like, whew, whew, we got away with something.
Guest:Like, where I almost feel like, yeah, I'm sure it would have been great if we kept going.
Guest:We had a lot of energy for it.
Guest:But at the same time, you go like, wow, what if it jumped the shark or something?
Guest:So...
Marc:Right, because, like, you know, you would have to grow those kids up eventually.
Guest:Yeah, and we were always prepared for that, and we really were set to, like, we're going to change, have everybody change groups each year, because that's how all my friends, like, you know, I'd have a nerd friend, and the next year come back, and it'd be a total burnout.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Like, what the hell happened?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So there was a lot we could have done, but I'm kind of cool with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Had you asked me maybe last year, I might have had a different – because finally I had another thing that did well.
Guest:Because I spent – those shows I worked on, I'm so proud of.
Guest:And I really got to be right in the middle of amazing shows.
Guest:But you don't feel that ownership.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Obviously, Bridesmaids is a total team effort and everything.
Guest:But you still at least go like, oh, thank God I got something else that kind of –
Guest:burst through right because i remember kind of thinking i really i would always kind of run it on the clock occasionally like i felt like last 10 years like i'm just kind of running down the clock in my career and i'll just kind of do directing tv yeah and i can be in doing cool stuff it's really cool but it's still not going to have that thing so so it's nice to have gotten another one i'd like to i'd like to have another one now that i also you know really got sure and another one right we'll have the same conversation after the next one yeah exactly when i make sweater busters the movie great talking to you paul you too mark thanks
Marc:All right, that's it.
Marc:Paul Feig, the lovely and intelligent Paul Feig.
Marc:I'll be in Boston tomorrow night at the Wilbur Theater for the Magner's Comedy Fest.
Marc:I think there's probably a few tickets left if you want to go to that.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Hey, and look, if you don't want to get the app,
Marc:A lot of episodes available at WTF Premium on iTunes.
Marc:I mean, like, I'm looking at it right now, and, you know, you've got the two Louis CKs, Galifianakis, Robin Williams, Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, Dave Attell, Judd Apatow, Ben Stiller, Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Silverman, Maria Bamford, Andy Richter, Doug Stanhope, Jeff Garland.
Marc:Jim Norton, Eugene Merman.
Marc:Man, there's a lot of stuff up there.
Marc:If you're interested in that, if you don't want to get the app, which you can also get for iPhone, iPad, iPad, iPod Touch, or your Droid thing.
Marc:The Droids are available at the Amazon website.
Marc:But get on the mailing list at wtfpod.com, and I'll email you every week.
Marc:I'm good at that.
Marc:I'm good with that.
Marc:Where's Boomer?
Marc:Door's closed.
Marc:Not gonna happen.
Marc:Not gonna happen today.
Marc:Okay, I'll talk to you later.