Episode 246 - Fred Stoller

Episode 246 • Released January 18, 2012 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:are we doing this really wait for it are we doing this wait for it pow what the fuck and it's also what the fuck what's wrong with me it's time for wtf what the fuck with mark maron

00:00:24Marc:Okay, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:28Marc:What the fucking hots?

00:00:30Marc:That's it.

00:00:31Marc:That's all for today.

00:00:32Marc:Thank you.

00:00:33Marc:Good night.

00:00:35Marc:I am Mark Maron.

00:00:36Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:37Marc:I appreciate your listenership and your support.

00:00:40Marc:I hope everybody's good.

00:00:42Marc:I am not so good, but I'm not going to whine.

00:00:45Marc:I'm not going to bitch.

00:00:46Marc:It's not a big complaint.

00:00:48Marc:Well, maybe it is.

00:00:49Marc:All right.

00:00:49Marc:Let me process it and I'll get back to you.

00:00:52Marc:I do want to tell you right now that Fred Stoller is on the show.

00:00:55Marc:Some of you heard Chris Rock mention Eddie Murphy mentioning Fred Stoller.

00:01:00Marc:When Chris Rock was on the show, he said, when I see Eddie, he says things like, what's going on, Fred Stoller?

00:01:05Marc:Well, Fred Stoller.

00:01:06Marc:is on the show and we'll get to fred in just a second can i promote myself a bit i will tonight i'll be at the laughing skull january 19th through 22nd uh sold out sorry i'm excited but i'm also apologetic to those of you who couldn't get tickets uh perhaps if you linger around the doorway of the vortex hamburger joint where the club is uh and you're nice to me i'll give you a short set out in front of the place january 27th a week from friday

00:01:34Marc:boston massachusetts for the magners comedy festival i will be doing a live what the fuck and i will also be doing a live stand-up set uh both at the wilbur theater the live wtf um i couldn't be more excited about a bunch of old uh boston guys that i i used to open for and i'm just thrilled to uh

00:01:53Marc:to hang out with them.

00:01:55Marc:Kenny Rogerson, Jimmy Tingle, Tony V, Frank Santarelli, Mike Donovan, and Barry Crimmins.

00:02:02Marc:And what else we got?

00:02:03Marc:Sketch Fest.

00:02:03Marc:I'm doing some shows up there.

00:02:04Marc:I'm doing a live WTF.

00:02:06Marc:I'm also doing a storytelling show.

00:02:07Marc:The Fowler VW presents me, Mark Maron.

00:02:10Marc:Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

00:02:12Marc:For reals.

00:02:14Marc:That is going to be at the City Arts Center, Oklahoma City.

00:02:20Marc:Holy shit.

00:02:21Marc:I don't think I've ever been to Oklahoma City.

00:02:23Marc:I know I've driven through Oklahoma.

00:02:25Marc:I know when I was a younger man after I graduated from college and made my way across country, I remember writing a poem about Oklahoma City and the Cowboys and the American Indians and some sort of deep Ginsbergian tract of bullshit.

00:02:40Marc:But throughout college, I held on to that dream.

00:02:42Marc:Perhaps I could be a poet.

00:02:43Marc:Could you imagine that?

00:02:45Marc:Could you imagine that I am not in my garage, but I am instead holding office hours in a liberal arts department at some small school because I wasn't quite good enough to get into the bigger programs?

00:02:57Marc:Just publishing maybe annual or every few years a slim volume of poems that I worked on hard and then trying to inspire young poets, trying to explain why they would persist in poetry.

00:03:15Marc:You know, I'll still read a poem or two.

00:03:16Marc:I enjoy it, actually.

00:03:17Marc:I'll even write one, depending on how desperate I am or how focused I am at writing.

00:03:25Marc:I have used poetry in courting, I'll admit, and I've used poetry to solve some problems.

00:03:30Marc:There you go.

00:03:31Marc:There's my salute to poetry.

00:03:33Marc:I've used it to court women.

00:03:35Marc:I've used it to solve some problems.

00:03:38Marc:Poetry, get some.

00:03:41Marc:live at acme comedy club wow going back to acme minneapolis minnesota march 8th through 10th that is a long time coming thrilled to be going back to that club and i will be in grand rapids michigan at gilda's laugh fest also i'm not sure what the date is i'll be at south by southwest doing a one-on-one interview in front of an audience with mr jeffrey tambor

00:04:03Marc:So that's that.

00:04:04Marc:Did I tell you Fred Stoller's on the show?

00:04:07Marc:Glad you all enjoyed the Todd Glass show.

00:04:09Marc:That was very exciting for me, and as I said, it was an honor to be part of that.

00:04:12Marc:I've talked to Todd.

00:04:13Marc:He seems great.

00:04:16Marc:I was concerned after I texted him.

00:04:19Marc:I called him.

00:04:20Marc:I wanted to make sure he felt good about everything, and he sounds great.

00:04:24Marc:So I'm very excited that you all heard that, and I'm excited for Todd.

00:04:28Marc:Now, what what if I'm OK?

00:04:30Marc:I'm not angry, but I understand some of you have to go to work sick.

00:04:35Marc:I talked about this kind of thing before, I believe.

00:04:37Marc:But fuck if I wasn't on a Delta flight.

00:04:40Marc:I got I got upgraded to first class because I had to fly back to do some thing for Hulu.

00:04:46Marc:Uh, that's another story.

00:04:49Marc:It's not, it's not important.

00:04:51Marc:All right.

00:04:51Marc:That's just a detail.

00:04:53Marc:Let's just, you know, kind of, kind of just move over that.

00:04:57Marc:So I'm on a plane.

00:04:58Marc:I'm sitting in first on Delta, which is no great shakes.

00:05:00Marc:I don't know.

00:05:00Marc:Delta seems to try, but I'm on Delta first class and I see this flight attendant.

00:05:05Marc:And she's talking to the other flight attendant right in front of me in the flight attendant area.

00:05:09Marc:And she said, yeah, yesterday I felt horrible.

00:05:11Marc:I had body aches.

00:05:12Marc:I was sweating.

00:05:13Marc:I stayed in bed all day.

00:05:14Marc:I had a fever.

00:05:15Marc:I just stayed in bed all day.

00:05:17Marc:And today I say, I'm not missing this shift.

00:05:19Marc:This is a sweet flight.

00:05:20Marc:And I'm like...

00:05:21Marc:Well, thanks for spreading your fucking virus all over everybody.

00:05:25Marc:Then I had to worry.

00:05:26Marc:I was holding a bottle of water.

00:05:27Marc:Did she touch it?

00:05:28Marc:Did she rub it on her face?

00:05:30Marc:Did she stick it in her pants?

00:05:31Marc:Did she put it in her eye?

00:05:33Marc:I don't fucking know.

00:05:34Marc:I'm not that big a hypochondriac anymore, but I travel a lot.

00:05:37Marc:And if you're going to make the plane a fucking flying Petri dish, I mean, maybe you should think twice.

00:05:43Marc:And then I tweeted about that, of course, because I can't not tweet everything that's going through my mind at any moment.

00:05:49Marc:And I get back these stories like, hey, you know, some people only get a few sick days.

00:05:53Marc:OK, well, then it's maybe it's worth worth sacrificing half the world's population because she didn't want to waste one of her sick days when she was carrying the death virus.

00:06:04Marc:The apocalypse virus spread globally because a flight attendant didn't want to take her sick day.

00:06:12Marc:Now, obviously I'm being dramatic, but I'm a little ill and I blame her.

00:06:17Marc:I blame Delta.

00:06:18Marc:Didn't like Delta to begin with.

00:06:19Marc:I was only flying on it because I was bought the flight on Delta and now I'm ill.

00:06:24Marc:And then I got a cold sore.

00:06:26Marc:Do you know what it's like to have cold sores?

00:06:28Marc:Were you one of the lucky people?

00:06:29Marc:That made it through the 80s without the souvenir from hell that tends to repeat itself whenever you're under a little bit of stress or perhaps compromised on a immunological level because a flight attendant brought her virus onto a plane.

00:06:47Marc:God damn it.

00:06:49Marc:This cold sore is horrendous.

00:06:51Marc:I took the Valtrex.

00:06:52Marc:I don't know if I got it in time.

00:06:54Marc:So now it looks like I was hitting the face with a fist.

00:06:57Marc:I guess I could do that.

00:06:58Marc:I could say that story.

00:06:59Marc:But fortunately, I have a mustache, which hides the explosion, the viral woodstock that's going on just beneath the skin of my lip.

00:07:09Marc:I thought today was going to be a good day.

00:07:10Marc:I ate a fortune cookie this morning that was left over from a Chinese restaurant last night.

00:07:14Marc:And it was very positive.

00:07:16Marc:And then this cold sore thing happens and now I'm sick.

00:07:19Marc:And then I neti potted.

00:07:20Marc:And of course, in the last month, two people have sent me articles about the neti pot and people have gotten some sort of amoebic encephalitis from using, I guess, sewage water in their neti pot.

00:07:31Marc:I use boiled water.

00:07:33Marc:I know you're supposed to use distilled water, but I use boiled water.

00:07:36Marc:Some people, I think in New Orleans or Louisiana, must be using toilet water.

00:07:41Marc:Or maybe these amoebas are just in the water.

00:07:43Marc:I can't think about that.

00:07:44Marc:There's only so many microorganisms I can think about churning through my body right now.

00:07:49Marc:Now I know I've got a taste, a hint of flu virus, a bit of herpes virus on my mouth.

00:07:54Marc:And I can't, there's no room for amoebas right now.

00:07:57Marc:Got no room for the amoebas.

00:08:00Marc:Fred Stoller, Fred Stoller's coming up, but he had some issues.

00:08:04Marc:He was concerned that he didn't talk about things he was doing or had done after we talked.

00:08:11Marc:So I got a call, Fred.

00:08:16Guest:Hello?

00:08:16Marc:Fred Stoller.

00:08:17Guest:Mark, Mark.

00:08:19Marc:You all right, buddy?

00:08:20Guest:Mark, you know, the thing is, I'm nothing personal.

00:08:23Guest:I didn't realize the cachet of your show, all these people coming up to me.

00:08:27Guest:Chris Rock mentioned Eddie Murphy mentioned you, and...

00:08:31Guest:And then I was listening to it more and I hear people, man, Leaf, I had great stories about writing on Saturday Night Live.

00:08:37Guest:And I should have had great stories of me and Gilbert Guffey in the truck and the guys driving us in the back because we're going to have sex with a girl, but we don't know where to go.

00:08:46Guest:I wrote on Seinfeld a year.

00:08:48Guest:You didn't know that.

00:08:49Guest:And I should have told you stories about Larry David screaming, screaming at me.

00:08:53Marc:Wait, wait, what did he scream?

00:08:55Marc:What did he scream at you about?

00:08:56Guest:Well, first of all, he screamed at me to be assertive, you know, to come out of my office and be pushy.

00:09:01Guest:But then I'd give him an idea.

00:09:03Guest:Then he yelled, that's stupid.

00:09:05Guest:And then like I wasn't like as assertive as the Harvard guys.

00:09:09Guest:I would go right in and pitch.

00:09:10Guest:And then I would be like napping in my office because I got exhausted trying to be pushy and wait for the door to open.

00:09:17Guest:and then Jerry would make fun of my clothes.

00:09:20Guest:I have all these stories, and I didn't realize, I forgot that I started with Eddie Murphy.

00:09:25Guest:I worked with him in Fort Lauderdale two weeks, the comic strip, and I was the one who said, do you remember Charlie Barnett?

00:09:34Marc:Yeah, the street performer.

00:09:36Guest:Yeah, and he got fired from Saturday Night Live.

00:09:39Guest:He was the black guy, but then he couldn't read.

00:09:41Guest:So I said, Eddie, they need another black guy.

00:09:44Guest:So Eddie smacked my hand once because I was going for the toast at Denny's.

00:09:49Guest:You know how they put it in the middle?

00:09:50Guest:So I got all these stories, and I'm concerned because I want these comedy nerds to go, hey, man, Stoler.

00:09:58Guest:He had great stories of Larry David yelling at him and calling him a doomed loser.

00:10:04Guest:And I didn't get those in.

00:10:06Guest:And I think I'm not a celebrity.

00:10:08Guest:And I was just talking about...

00:10:09Marc:meandering around the grove right well look you know I think now I'm glad we had this phone call glad is a good idea so now we know that Larry David yelled at you told you to be more assertive called you a doomed loser now when Charlie Barnett lost the gig at SNL because he couldn't read you were with Eddie Murphy in Florida and he said they need a new black guy yeah and then he slapped your hand because you want for the toast right because I realize what your podcast people love hearing Norma got a lot great stories or this or that

00:10:36Guest:And I don't think I had, you know, remember Mark Schiff had that talk about, you know, comedy on the road.

00:10:43Guest:And all the stories were, hey, we had strippers and we threw them in the pool and we tied them to a car.

00:10:49Guest:They're all made up.

00:10:50Guest:And I was just being myself.

00:10:51Marc:No, no, no.

00:10:52Marc:It's all we need is yourself, you know.

00:10:54Marc:And I clearly remember it being a nice conversation that we're going to hear right now.

00:10:59Guest:I just wanted to have, you know, I realized.

00:11:02Guest:And now with Todd, man, I never would have guessed that.

00:11:05Guest:Yeah.

00:11:05Guest:You got to have things people talk about.

00:11:08Marc:Well, are you gay?

00:11:10Guest:No, well, maybe.

00:11:11Guest:But, you know, it's funny.

00:11:12Guest:People always go, they're liberal, you know, gay rights.

00:11:15Guest:But then they go, but you know who's gay?

00:11:17Guest:But still, they love hearing it.

00:11:18Guest:Yeah.

00:11:19Guest:But I just, I really appreciate this because, wow, like I said, I've had about a dozen people come up to me and think it's so funny that,

00:11:28Guest:Chris Rock mentioned, Eddie Murphy mentions me.

00:11:31Guest:The pressure now, you know?

00:11:33Marc:Well, no, you're a very influential person.

00:11:35Marc:You just need to assert yourself.

00:11:37Guest:Exactly.

00:11:39Guest:And now I've got to decide with the Kindle single, they go, is it going to be 99 cents or $1.99?

00:11:45Guest:But, Mark, you could have it for $49 because you're a good guy.

00:11:48Marc:I appreciate it.

00:11:49Marc:So when does this go up?

00:11:49Guest:This is going to be up this Friday unless I can't make a decision of how much it should be.

00:11:54Marc:Okay, tell me, what are they going to get for their money?

00:11:59Guest:I had a book many years ago that, you know, I never knew what to do with it called Maybe We'll Have You Back about being a perennial TV guest star guy.

00:12:07Guest:And one chapter was writing on Seinfeld.

00:12:09Guest:So then I buffed it up.

00:12:10Guest:I know someone who said,

00:12:11Guest:There's this new thing, Kendall Singles on Amazon, where you can just download like a mini, like Stephen King has one, Dean Koontz.

00:12:19Guest:This is who I got to compete with.

00:12:20Guest:They're doing like things called singles.

00:12:23Marc:What do you got to lose?

00:12:24Marc:Sell it for $1.99.

00:12:26Guest:Now I'm nervous.

00:12:28Guest:Yeah, it's a psychology because the guy goes, if it's $99, then it could go up more, but more people buy it.

00:12:33Guest:But you say go for $199?

00:12:35Marc:Yeah, why not?

00:12:36Marc:It's not even $2.

00:12:38Marc:It's cheaper than a cup of coffee.

00:12:39Guest:That's the analogy to everything in the world.

00:12:42Guest:What?

00:12:42Guest:Coffee became the thing.

00:12:44Marc:But so now, can we go ahead and run the interview?

00:12:48Guest:Absolutely.

00:12:49Guest:Man, you could have my Kindle book for 49 cents.

00:12:52Marc:Oh, I appreciate that.

00:12:53Guest:You're a good guy.

00:12:54Marc:All right, so Fred, everything's good.

00:12:56Marc:We're going to roll the interview now.

00:12:57Guest:Okay, all right.

00:12:59Guest:But I probably won't be able to listen to it.

00:13:00Marc:Oh, God.

00:13:02Guest:But, no, you know why?

00:13:04Guest:Because I'm not going to – this has to mean a lot because I'll never get unnerdized now because I put them down so much.

00:13:10Guest:So this is my one big podcast.

00:13:11Marc:Oh, that's what the song is about.

00:13:13Marc:Yeah.

00:13:14Marc:We've got to run the song, too.

00:13:15Guest:You're going to do the song, too?

00:13:16Guest:Great.

00:13:17Marc:Okay.

00:13:17Marc:All right.

00:13:17Marc:Thanks, Fred.

00:13:18Guest:Thank you.

00:13:25Guest:It's not a crazy hot day.

00:13:27Guest:Are you a sweating guy, though?

00:13:28Guest:No, no, no.

00:13:29Guest:I don't use deodorant.

00:13:31Guest:No?

00:13:32Guest:Yeah, I don't think I need it.

00:13:34Guest:I could be wrong.

00:13:35Marc:I didn't smell you.

00:13:37Marc:All right, all right.

00:13:38Marc:I don't use deodorant.

00:13:39Guest:I've never... I don't understand.

00:13:40Guest:Yeah, it doesn't seem like... Why would you want to smell like that?

00:13:43Marc:I mean, like, it doesn't stop.

00:13:45Marc:An antiperspirant doesn't stop sweat.

00:13:48Marc:I haven't used it, I mean, because I sweat a lot, so there was no stopping it.

00:13:51Marc:And then I thought, you know, the deodorant, then you got to smell like that.

00:13:56Marc:Yeah.

00:13:56Marc:And it leaves that white stain in your shirt.

00:13:59Guest:Well, I never see those pit stains I have.

00:14:01Guest:I mean, in Heatwaves, I have it on my chest now.

00:14:04Marc:Right.

00:14:04Marc:What do you think that is?

00:14:05Marc:Old?

00:14:06Guest:I think it's old and yeah.

00:14:08Marc:But what are you always going to get it?

00:14:09Marc:You don't get it in your armpits?

00:14:10Marc:You only get it on your chest?

00:14:12Guest:I don't know.

00:14:12Guest:I guess.

00:14:14Guest:I guess.

00:14:14Guest:I don't know.

00:14:15Guest:Yeah, it doesn't seem like...

00:14:16Guest:I don't feel like I smell after I shower.

00:14:19Guest:Don't people put deodorant on after they shower?

00:14:21Marc:I don't know.

00:14:22Marc:I use a little patchouli oil sometimes just to smell better.

00:14:26Guest:I don't know anything about lotions or anything.

00:14:29Guest:I just wash.

00:14:30Marc:But you look so young.

00:14:31Guest:You don't look like you've changed.

00:14:33Guest:I have.

00:14:34Guest:I used to be a stick figure.

00:14:35Guest:I used to be 130 pounds.

00:14:37Guest:That's right.

00:14:37Guest:So when you look...

00:14:39Guest:When I compare, and I think because I was really, really skinny, so now I filled out, so that's helped, I guess.

00:14:46Marc:But do you don't exercise?

00:14:47Guest:I walk to the Grove a lot.

00:14:49Marc:Yeah?

00:14:50Guest:Yeah, I just walk a lot.

00:14:51Marc:Yeah.

00:14:51Guest:I don't do anything, yeah.

00:14:53Marc:But, I mean, I'm trying to remember when I first met you.

00:14:56Guest:That was that Jerry Rubin thing, was that?

00:14:59Marc:That was so weird, man.

00:15:00Marc:I mean, in my recollection, by the way, Fred Stoller is here.

00:15:04Marc:We're talking.

00:15:05Marc:Good, good.

00:15:06Marc:He was nervous when he got here.

00:15:07Marc:Yeah.

00:15:08Guest:What was it?

00:15:09Guest:I have anxiety about a lot of things because I don't know this area and I'm trusting the GPS.

00:15:14Guest:And even though I know rationally the GPS understands how to get here.

00:15:19Guest:Yeah.

00:15:20Guest:You just sort of like to know you know where you're going.

00:15:23Guest:It's sort of this blind trust.

00:15:24Marc:Sure.

00:15:25Marc:It's like cooking.

00:15:25Marc:You've got to picture the dish.

00:15:28Guest:Yeah.

00:15:29Guest:And sometimes they're wrong, and sometimes the sound goes off.

00:15:32Guest:Right.

00:15:32Guest:Like I said, rationally, I know this doesn't have to start at noon, like The Tonight Show.

00:15:36Guest:Yeah.

00:15:37Guest:But it still is, I have, I now I'm very rational when I know I'm being irrational.

00:15:42Guest:And, and also I, no, no, I've been listening to a lot and it's entertaining and I want to, the chance to talk about crazy stuff.

00:15:49Guest:And, and I sent you this, I feel like such a schmuck sending you this DVD, please watch it.

00:15:55Guest:Ooh, I'm not, I don't want to be that guy.

00:15:56Guest:When I used to do stand up, not one person ever came because I did a radio show and I've done this movie thing and I talk and no one cares.

00:16:04Guest:So I'd rather be entertaining.

00:16:05Marc:Somebody sent me a link to the song you made about the podcast.

00:16:10Guest:You know, I was intimidated by you, to be honest, at first.

00:16:14Guest:From the old days?

00:16:15Marc:Or just recently?

00:16:16Guest:With this thing, because this whole podcast world, right?

00:16:19Marc:Yeah.

00:16:20Guest:Some of them are snooty, and I don't want to name a few, but I will.

00:16:24Guest:Okay.

00:16:25Guest:And there's this thing, well, you could be on my thing, but I don't think you could carry the whole show.

00:16:31Guest:All right, there's this guy.

00:16:33Marc:Yeah.

00:16:34Guest:He works in the Apple store, and I'm giving him away.

00:16:39Guest:He's a podcaster that works in the Apple store.

00:16:42Guest:Yeah, and I used to come in there, and it was a novelty.

00:16:44Guest:Fred Stoller, you know, I'm a comedy nerd, and he'd help me and stuff.

00:16:48Guest:But then I'm so retarded, I know nothing, and to all the cool Apple guys, I'm just pissed.

00:16:54Guest:Like, how does this work?

00:16:55Marc:So you're the guy that... Not only do you walk to the Grove, but you do it frequently, so there's a lot of businesses that know you.

00:17:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:02Guest:I'm like the mayor of the Grove.

00:17:03Guest:I bumped into Norm MacDonald, and the trolley goes by, and I'm waving to it, shaking hands with kiosk guys.

00:17:08Guest:He said I'm from one of those turn-of-classic movies.

00:17:12Guest:Like, you know, getting apples.

00:17:14Marc:Like from the 30s or 40s?

00:17:15Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:15Marc:Like the musicals?

00:17:16Guest:Yes, the trolley goes by.

00:17:18Marc:How are you, Mr. Stola?

00:17:20Guest:And the sunglass guy knows me, and it's... Yeah, it's like...

00:17:24Guest:I stopped doing comedy, and that was my social life, just going to a club.

00:17:29Guest:I couldn't do it anymore.

00:17:31Guest:And for years before the growth- How long?

00:17:34Guest:Well, I think 93-ish, I stopped going to clubs.

00:17:36Guest:Why do I feel like I've seen you do ... You've done a few things.

00:17:39Guest:Well, I kind of lie.

00:17:40Guest:I've done Dr. Katz.

00:17:42Guest:93?

00:17:43Guest:Well, that's when I ... That's when I started getting like, I can't do it anymore.

00:17:48Guest:Why couldn't you do it anymore?

00:17:50Guest:I don't know.

00:17:54Guest:People go, don't you miss it?

00:17:55Guest:And I feel like I'm deceiving you being on this.

00:17:58Guest:It's a pleasure to see you.

00:17:59Marc:I always liked you.

00:18:01Marc:Last time I saw you, we did a voiceover for a thing that probably won't happen, but it was funny.

00:18:05Marc:Okay, first of all, the first time we met, it was a very weird situation.

00:18:09Guest:Right.

00:18:10Marc:We had a common friend in this publicist who I was dating at the time, Stacy Nelson.

00:18:15Marc:And somehow or another, we hooked up.

00:18:19Marc:It was you, me, Ratso Sloman, who was a writer, a ghost writer for Howard Stern's biography.

00:18:25Marc:I want to go on my rant about him when you have to use.

00:18:27Marc:And then somehow or another, we're going to this event to see Jerry.

00:18:30Marc:In Westwood, I think.

00:18:31Marc:It was to see Jerry Rubin, the 60s radical.

00:18:33Marc:Right.

00:18:34Marc:And I was like, this sounds interesting.

00:18:35Marc:I want to meet Jerry Rubin, the 60s radical.

00:18:37Marc:And no one gave us much information.

00:18:40Marc:And we get to this event that's basically some sort of- It was a pyramid scheme of vitamin people.

00:18:45Marc:Yeah.

00:18:45Marc:And I don't know how Jerry was involved.

00:18:47Marc:He was part of it, trying to make money from it, right?

00:18:50Marc:Right.

00:18:50Marc:It was this couple that had vitamin products.

00:18:53Marc:Right.

00:18:53Marc:Or health products.

00:18:54Marc:And there's Jerry Rubin, you know, one of the original yippies, you know, introducing this couple that then they're hawking vitamins.

00:19:01Marc:It was one of the most tragic things.

00:19:02Marc:Yes.

00:19:03Marc:That I'd seen.

00:19:03Guest:Next to him getting hit by a car and getting killed.

00:19:06Guest:This was more tragic.

00:19:08Yeah.

00:19:08Marc:To me, the selling the vitamins, the voice of sort of like amplified clown-like 60s radicalism.

00:19:17Marc:They really took street theater and radicalism to this new place with Abbie Hoffman and Krasner and a few other people.

00:19:23Marc:And there he was in this weird rented space.

00:19:26Marc:at night hosting an event where they served shitty health food and they were hawking vitamins.

00:19:31Marc:And he was the spokesperson or something for this.

00:19:33Marc:And I'm like, this is the death of all idealism.

00:19:36Marc:It's not even like he became a capitalist.

00:19:38Marc:He became this pathetic huckster for this bullshit.

00:19:41Marc:And no one was even there.

00:19:43Marc:It was fucking, in my mind, this is fucking Jerry Rubin and me and you and Ratso and Stacey are sitting there like, I don't even think we hung out that long.

00:19:51Marc:I don't, yeah, it was, how long ago was that?

00:19:54Marc:Like a long time.

00:19:56Marc:It must have been like 92, 91.

00:19:59Marc:But see, you were still doing comedy then.

00:20:02Guest:I was still doing stand-up.

00:20:03Guest:I did it.

00:20:06Guest:You know, I'm never one of these guys.

00:20:07Guest:I bump into this guy.

00:20:09Guest:I'm a comedian because I want to be a philosopher.

00:20:11Guest:And I used to like love getting the light like you could get off.

00:20:15Guest:Oh, you mean like I'm done?

00:20:17Guest:I couldn't wait for the light.

00:20:18Guest:But where'd you start?

00:20:18Marc:New York?

00:20:19Guest:I started in New York at like first the improv briefly, then Catch and the Strip.

00:20:23Guest:The original improv?

00:20:23Guest:yeah yeah yeah so you how old are you I'm 53 okay so a lot of the Facebook crushes have just gone away but you were great but you're a little older than me I'm 47 so you were already out of New York by the time I got there in 89 so you were there I came to LA in 88 right so you were there the original improv was

00:20:41Guest:I used to hang out with Gilbert Gottfried and some other guy.

00:20:45Guest:He's so annoying.

00:20:46Guest:I don't even give him the publicity or the acknowledgement because he calls me up and he's annoying.

00:20:53Guest:You ever have these people just seeing their name on Facebook annoys you?

00:20:57Guest:Yeah.

00:20:57Guest:You know, he's annoying.

00:21:00Guest:And in the original improv, actually, Chris Albrecht used to run it, who became this HBO guy.

00:21:06Marc:He was the head of HBO, and now he's at Starz.

00:21:08Marc:He was a big deal.

00:21:09Marc:He changed the face of HBO.

00:21:11Marc:He was the guy.

00:21:12Marc:He was a door guy.

00:21:13Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:14Marc:But this is towards the end of the original improv, because I got there in 89, and it was sort of in its last row.

00:21:19Marc:Silver was running it.

00:21:20Marc:She had had it for a long time, but it was the original play.

00:21:22Marc:Yeah, when Silver came, I left.

00:21:24Guest:But I don't think she...

00:21:26Guest:I don't think I like being there, you know, and then the strip and cash.

00:21:30Guest:And there was comedy was sort of like my adolescence, you know, because I didn't really go to college and I was still a virgin.

00:21:37Guest:And how old?

00:21:38Marc:19.

00:21:39Marc:He started.

00:21:39Guest:I started.

00:21:40Guest:Actually, I had a false start at 17.

00:21:42Guest:But then I came back when I was 20.

00:21:44Guest:Mm hmm.

00:21:44Guest:Yeah, I was a virgin until 21.

00:21:46Guest:And I remember I confessed to a woman on Facebook, a waitress, that I lied about my virginity.

00:21:51Guest:Because I'm socially retarded, and I didn't know how you bring a woman home, and you put your arm, and how do you have sex.

00:21:57Guest:So I used to, like, it would take me an hour to, like, say...

00:22:01Guest:ask her, are we going to have sex?

00:22:03Guest:Because I needed the guarantee that we'd go there and there'd be sex.

00:22:06Guest:I didn't know what you're supposed to do.

00:22:08Marc:To get there.

00:22:09Guest:Yeah, so I just had to get the guarantee there'd be sex.

00:22:11Guest:Verbal commitment.

00:22:12Guest:Yeah, but it would take me an hour to muster up the thing.

00:22:16Guest:So there was this one waitress, she was considering it, and she goes, the fact you're a virgin's attractive, maybe let me think about it.

00:22:23Guest:Then a few months later, she goes, let's go to my place.

00:22:25Guest:And

00:22:26Guest:By then, I already had done it twice with other people.

00:22:30Marc:How did they go the first couple times?

00:22:32Guest:Oh, it was just... I wasn't a virgin until 21 because it was a nice thing.

00:22:39Guest:It was just I couldn't get anyone.

00:22:40Guest:So it wasn't magic.

00:22:41Guest:I had to get it over with.

00:22:43Guest:And the first one was...

00:22:45Guest:Nothing to brag about.

00:22:49Guest:As you could see, I'm a guy that brags.

00:22:51Guest:And I was just doing things I thought you're supposed to do in movies and taking the train home to my mother's house where I still lived.

00:22:57Guest:I go, I guess I did it.

00:22:59Guest:So nothing.

00:23:01Guest:You live with your mother?

00:23:02Guest:I live with my mother till 22.

00:23:05Guest:And then I lived in Sheepshead Bay all the way at the end of Brooklyn.

00:23:09Guest:I would live off cab fare.

00:23:11Guest:That was the first thing.

00:23:12Guest:It was a big deal at the improv when you got promoted.

00:23:15Guest:You can get cab fare before they paid you.

00:23:17Guest:And I would just eat a free meal and get a piece of pizza and just take trains.

00:23:23Guest:But what drove you to comedy in the first place?

00:23:24Guest:I mean, did you ever go to Pips?

00:23:26Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:26Guest:Actually...

00:23:27Guest:I was pathologically shy, nothing funny at all about me, which I'm proving now.

00:23:33Guest:That's not true.

00:23:34Guest:Now, you grew up in Sheepshead Bay?

00:23:35Marc:Yeah.

00:23:36Guest:And your mother, and what did your father do?

00:23:38Guest:My father, he deserved- Jewish, right?

00:23:40Marc:Very Jewish.

00:23:41Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:42Guest:I'm very Jewish, except you know something?

00:23:45Guest:I didn't even know until I did comedy that Jews were a minority.

00:23:48Guest:It was all the menorahs, and they hated our family because we weren't good Jews.

00:23:52Guest:I didn't go to temple, and my friend-

00:23:54Guest:With my friend's father, I'm going to wish you a happy shechacha, even though you're practicing to be a goyim.

00:23:59Guest:It was all us against them.

00:24:00Guest:The schvitzes, the schvatzes, the goyim, the shebeckes.

00:24:04Guest:So I never liked that whole us against them thing.

00:24:08Marc:The Jewy Jews.

00:24:09Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:11Guest:So I think I wanted to be a character.

00:24:14Guest:I didn't know what I wanted to be.

00:24:15Guest:So I would see people like Jimmy Walker, and he was really skinny.

00:24:20Guest:And I would... Or her, Bettelman, these character actors go, wow, that's someone like me.

00:24:25Marc:Yeah.

00:24:25Guest:So I didn't know how you become that.

00:24:27Guest:And then I went to Pips with my older sister.

00:24:29Marc:Yeah.

00:24:30Guest:We actually saw Richard Lewis and Billy Crystal before they were famous.

00:24:34Guest:And I remember Billy Crystal was doing a bit about season Nick tickets and his kids.

00:24:39Guest:I go, wow, he's not famous, but he could support himself.

00:24:41Guest:And this is before the comedy boom.

00:24:43Guest:Then I heard stories, oh...

00:24:45Guest:Freddie Princed did his act at the improv.

00:24:48Guest:Then he got on The Tonight Show.

00:24:50Guest:Then he got a sitcom.

00:24:51Guest:So I go, oh, that's how you do it.

00:24:52Guest:Well, what was your family's thoughts on it?

00:24:54Guest:Because you're in high school, right?

00:24:56Guest:I was first, I think, at Kingsborough Community College.

00:25:00Guest:Yeah, yeah, graduating high school.

00:25:02Guest:You know, the thing is,

00:25:04Guest:It was almost like I was gay, but we don't talk about it.

00:25:07Guest:Because my mother, and I'm not saying this to be funny, she freaked, you see, this is in 78.

00:25:13Guest:And comedy wasn't where it is now, where every cab driver, it's college courses.

00:25:19Guest:It's more absurd that someone in LA doesn't do stand-up in some way.

00:25:23Guest:You know what I mean?

00:25:24Guest:In some kind of, every second on Facebook, see my comedy show, I didn't know you were a comedian.

00:25:30Guest:So it was really, my mother just knew, you know...

00:25:33Guest:Jackie Vernon.

00:25:35Guest:I love Jackie Vernon.

00:25:36Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:36Marc:That's all she knew.

00:25:37Marc:That was the first comic I ever saw on television that resonated with me.

00:25:41Marc:Was Jackie Vernon on a TV show doing that slideshow?

00:25:43Guest:You know, the first one that resonated with me and I'm stealing from him is Buddy Hackett because he told on The Tonight Show he lost his virginity at 23.

00:25:51Guest:And I go, wow, a guy on TV admitting that.

00:25:55Guest:But it's Buddy Hackett.

00:25:57Guest:So now I'm so proud.

00:25:59Guest:This is my Buddy Hackett moment.

00:26:00Guest:I'm helping people out there that haven't lost their virginity.

00:26:04Guest:Yeah, sure, yeah.

00:26:05Guest:They're going to go that schmuck Fred Stoll.

00:26:06Guest:Look how he ended up.

00:26:08Guest:I loved Buddy Hackett, too.

00:26:09Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:10Guest:So that's what my mother knew.

00:26:12Guest:So then...

00:26:13Guest:I was very, very, very depressed, which is hard to believe, which is one reason- Then?

00:26:19Guest:Yeah, which is one reason why I will never kill myself because it won't be a shock, like Richard, Jenny, a shock.

00:26:27Guest:But with the girlfriend, we see that coming.

00:26:31Guest:I've thought of suicide.

00:26:32Guest:I like your bit that it's relaxing, but too many people will go, well, that's Fred.

00:26:36Guest:So that keeps me not killing myself.

00:26:38Guest:That keeps you alive that you don't want to be predictable?

00:26:40Guest:Yes.

00:26:41Guest:That it's like, well, you know what I mean?

00:26:43Guest:Yeah, like, all right, when was this going to happen already?

00:26:45Marc:But you seem like, lately when I've run into you, you seem okay.

00:26:50Marc:I mean, were you morosely depressed as a young man?

00:26:52Marc:And you know something?

00:26:54Guest:Yes, I used to have this fantasy.

00:27:00Guest:that I'd wake up and my life was a bad dream.

00:27:02Guest:I was a good-looking kid, not skinny.

00:27:05Guest:In Long Island, my parents were nurturing.

00:27:08Guest:So my growing up was a nightmare.

00:27:10Guest:And I heard if there was a nuclear attack, they'd hit the Empire State Building first.

00:27:14Guest:I used to walk around looking at it, picturing the thing.

00:27:18Guest:So I guess, oh, no, no.

00:27:20Guest:I remember this Happy Days episode where the aliens came down.

00:27:25Guest:And they said, we'll take, I think, Richie to our planet, but you could never go back to Earth.

00:27:29Guest:I go, man, give me that, give me that.

00:27:32Guest:I used to think.

00:27:34Guest:So I was very depressed.

00:27:36Guest:So when I quit college to be a comedian, when I passed auditions, my mother, and I could see why she didn't get it.

00:27:45Guest:No one got, I was very, very, very shy, but I wasn't a funny guy.

00:27:50Guest:Where'd you audition, the improv, a catch?

00:27:51Guest:Yeah, I never did that thing, do chilies and the triple in.

00:27:55Guest:I just knew the improv.

00:27:57Guest:And actually, I started at 17 and couldn't do it.

00:28:00Guest:And then came back when I was 20.

00:28:01Guest:You couldn't do it because you couldn't handle it?

00:28:04Guest:I couldn't handle the rejection.

00:28:05Guest:I couldn't handle the train ride.

00:28:07Guest:I just couldn't.

00:28:09Guest:I can't imagine how nuts you made yourself.

00:28:10Guest:Well, the thing is, I remember that being so shy, people still don't get, how could you be a comedian and...

00:28:18Marc:And so you're shy.

00:28:19Marc:I experienced that too.

00:28:21Marc:I know the same feeling.

00:28:22Marc:You feel socially awkward and then you go do that.

00:28:24Marc:It's some way to transcend it.

00:28:26Guest:Well, first of all, I thought of them as a clump.

00:28:29Guest:People one-on-one is, you know what I'm saying?

00:28:31Guest:They're just a clump.

00:28:33Guest:People one-on-one.

00:28:34Guest:It's more complicated.

00:28:35Guest:And also I had my head down and I didn't look at them and I did nooses with the thing.

00:28:40Guest:And if I saw someone in the audience, if I knew someone I knew was there, I couldn't do it.

00:28:45Guest:I'm not one of these guys, bring Ricky and all my friends.

00:28:48Guest:No, I used to hate that too.

00:28:49Guest:And I hated when I did Caroline's because every fucking relative.

00:28:53Guest:The original one on 9th?

00:28:55Guest:No, I did that.

00:28:56Guest:But when I headlined, I did the-

00:28:58Guest:Seaport.

00:28:59Guest:And every relative, every person I didn't want, everyone from school, and it's advertised, so I hate it.

00:29:08Marc:So they feel like they're entitled to come.

00:29:10Marc:I used to tell people not to come.

00:29:11Marc:Yes.

00:29:11Marc:Like, you don't have to come.

00:29:13Guest:Yeah.

00:29:13Guest:My parents, Pips, one time they peeked in through the window and just seeing these schmucks, you know, like seeing, does he really do it?

00:29:20Guest:But my mother freaked out.

00:29:23Guest:Not only did I quit college.

00:29:25Guest:You're smart.

00:29:26Guest:You know about history, but she was telling me.

00:29:28Marc:Not really.

00:29:28Guest:that the people that they take to war

00:29:33Guest:are the ones that don't go to college and are going to get killed.

00:29:35Guest:But there was no war in 78.

00:29:36Guest:But I think China invaded Vietnam or something and said, now you're going to get killed.

00:29:41Guest:That's who goes to the war.

00:29:43Guest:So that's what she said to you.

00:29:45Marc:You said, I'm going to be a comic.

00:29:46Marc:She goes, you're going to die in the war.

00:29:47Guest:Yes.

00:29:47Guest:And I said, there's not a war.

00:29:48Guest:She goes, no, no.

00:29:49Guest:Vietnam got taken over or something with China.

00:29:52Guest:I don't know.

00:29:53Guest:So basically, this is true.

00:29:55Guest:I'm not saying this.

00:29:57Guest:Jokes from my act with things she said verbatim because she couldn't understand the concept of being a comedian.

00:30:01Guest:Yeah.

00:30:02Guest:Now, like I said, it's more common than, you know, whatever, working in a bookstore.

00:30:08Guest:Yeah.

00:30:08Guest:You can do both.

00:30:09Guest:It is the same.

00:30:10Marc:Yeah, those borders.

00:30:11Guest:So she goes, I'm not going to tell people you're a comic.

00:30:14Guest:I'm going to say you're retarded.

00:30:16Guest:And I put in my act and it's true because it was easier to just say there's something wrong with Freddie.

00:30:21Guest:And so my father would sometimes drive me.

00:30:23Guest:to the train station when I would try to audition and he wouldn't even say good luck.

00:30:30Guest:My father really didn't talk.

00:30:31Guest:I think he probably had Asperger's because he was an artist and we didn't know what it was.

00:30:35Guest:What kind of artist?

00:30:36Guest:He designed displays like Revlon and things, but he would just sit in the garage and make trains and not talk.

00:30:44Guest:Your mother talked.

00:30:45Guest:Yeah, she'd, Morris, talk something.

00:30:46Guest:I'm the bad one.

00:30:47Guest:Morris, say something with company.

00:30:49Guest:And I'm like him because...

00:30:51Guest:He would pretend he was reading to withdraw.

00:30:54Guest:Like, he'd look at, like, I'm not saying this would be funny, a matchbook cover.

00:30:59Guest:And I do that with my iPhone.

00:31:00Guest:They go, you're a tech guy?

00:31:01Guest:I go, no, it's just easy to see if I got an email or see if I got a Twitter friend.

00:31:06Marc:Or to not talk to you who's trying to talk to me.

00:31:09Guest:No, no, I'm not.

00:31:10Marc:I mean, in general.

00:31:11Guest:No, no, I'm just, yeah.

00:31:12Guest:In general, it's easy just to...

00:31:15Guest:I don't know what I did before Twitter.

00:31:17Guest:Before, I mean, say, iPhones, I'd either go in the party, look at the books, or go to the cat.

00:31:23Marc:Go to the cat.

00:31:23Guest:Yeah.

00:31:24Marc:Yeah, I can understand that.

00:31:27Guest:No, so I did it before the comedy boom.

00:31:29Guest:The first job was Pips and this Garvin's that I think Larry David originally booked, then Rich Scheidner booked.

00:31:36Guest:So in New York...

00:31:37Guest:I was spoiled in that I could make a living doing New Jersey, Long Island, Connecticut, and just having to do 20 minutes.

00:31:44Guest:And it wasn't so painful, but it never felt right.

00:31:48Guest:And then I'd have to go on the, then I moved to LA.

00:31:50Guest:But never felt right.

00:31:51Guest:I mean, it didn't start feeling right to me until two years ago.

00:31:54Guest:I guess it never felt natural.

00:31:56Guest:I'm never one of these guys.

00:31:57Guest:You know those guys that get the light.

00:31:59Guest:I'm fucking killing.

00:32:00Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:00Marc:No, I haven't either.

00:32:01Marc:But still, the discomfort of it.

00:32:04Marc:Maybe we didn't get into it for... Who knows why we got into it?

00:32:07Marc:Because if you're that uncomfortable and you actually stopped in 93, I was pretending to not be uncomfortable for most of my career.

00:32:12Guest:I went through this phase.

00:32:13Guest:Sorry to interrupt.

00:32:14Guest:No, it's all right.

00:32:15Guest:I said, why don't I love it?

00:32:16Guest:Am I a sore loser?

00:32:17Guest:Am I lazy?

00:32:18Guest:And it took me years to accept.

00:32:20Guest:My heart fell out of it.

00:32:21Guest:I still...

00:32:22Guest:I'm doing a web series.

00:32:25Guest:But you were always terrified, right?

00:32:27Guest:Yeah.

00:32:28Guest:No, I just meant the whole going into a club.

00:32:31Marc:Fighting the fight.

00:32:32Guest:Hanging out with comics that are just doing the same joke.

00:32:36Guest:In L.A., to kill...

00:32:38Guest:To get to say something, you've got to kill.

00:32:39Guest:To kill, you've got to do the same jokes.

00:32:41Guest:And you've got to walk around with the notebook.

00:32:43Guest:How do I recreate that joke?

00:32:44Guest:Why did it work?

00:32:45Guest:Why didn't it work?

00:32:47Guest:I remember when Tom Hanks was researching Punchline.

00:32:51Guest:Yeah.

00:32:53Guest:He put together a fairly decent act.

00:32:56Guest:Right.

00:32:56Guest:He did it.

00:32:57Guest:He did the movie.

00:32:58Guest:And then he put it away.

00:33:00Guest:So it's just over and over.

00:33:03Guest:I remember Bobcat was saying he's going to write movies because when you do...

00:33:06Guest:do jokes it goes in the air and but this is a script i wrote it even if no one does it this is the thing yeah it's done so i think i the repetition the hanging out the but you got breaks right i mean you did all right you did the tonight show with johnny right i did some hbo stuff yeah i never did one of those half hour things but no but you did tonight show with johnny i did i did i made a you could make a living for a while in the early 90s doing evening at the improv uh late 80s right right right

00:33:33Guest:Caroline's comic strip live and I think that messed me up because they'd have these people I didn't but what was your first break

00:33:42Guest:I've had people... The Tonight Show?

00:33:45Guest:No, that was very anticlimactic.

00:33:47Guest:I did it with some yodelers and no guests.

00:33:51Guest:I did Letterman the day the space shuttle blew up, so no one watched it.

00:33:57Guest:You did Carson, though?

00:33:58Guest:I did Carson, yeah.

00:33:59Guest:With yodelers?

00:34:00Guest:They were yodelers, and it was like towards the end.

00:34:03Guest:It was Doc Severinsen playing a song, and it was weird because I did my act, and I didn't meet Johnny...

00:34:10Guest:Did you do well?

00:34:12Guest:I guess.

00:34:13Guest:By then, I had done a million of those evening at the improv shows, and people would say, I saw you on the Tonight Show.

00:34:18Guest:I'd go, I've never been on it.

00:34:19Guest:Yes, you are.

00:34:20Guest:I'd go, okay.

00:34:21Guest:So it was at that point where there was no difference almost.

00:34:23Guest:It still isn't, really, to some people.

00:34:25Guest:Right.

00:34:25Guest:I mean, there's the exceptions.

00:34:27Guest:Ray on Letterman and Drew Carey broke on Carson, but it became...

00:34:33Guest:Yeah, so I wouldn't say I... People go, what was your break?

00:34:37Marc:You mean in acting or in... No, but I mean, no, as a stand-up, when you knew, like, all right, so I'm doing something that, you know, I've succeeded.

00:34:43Marc:This is like, you know, this shows that I am good at this.

00:34:47Marc:Not necessarily financial break, but, I mean, the reward.

00:34:50Marc:There had to be... I mean, I was around for those shows.

00:34:53Marc:I did all those shows, too.

00:34:54Marc:What was Rosie's called?

00:34:55Marc:It was out here in Pasadena, right?

00:34:57Marc:Stand Up.

00:34:57Marc:Stand Up Spotlight, right?

00:34:59Marc:Out in Pasadena at the Ice House.

00:35:01Marc:And then the Caroline's Comedy Hour, they shot those at the Southport.

00:35:04Marc:Rich Jenny, all those.

00:35:04Marc:Right, but then they shot at the new one.

00:35:06Marc:They did both, right?

00:35:07Marc:I don't know if Rich Jenny... I don't remember who hosted the first one.

00:35:09Marc:Jake John Hansen, I think.

00:35:10Marc:MTV had one with Mario Joyner.

00:35:12Marc:Right, and then there was also the one at the A-List that Richard hosted.

00:35:16Marc:Which were people called A-List.

00:35:17Marc:A-list.

00:35:18Marc:Yeah.

00:35:18Marc:Sandra, I'm on A-list because it was everybody.

00:35:21Marc:Right, Sandra did it and then Richard did the last season of it.

00:35:24Marc:Jenny did that one too?

00:35:25Marc:No, no, Richard Lewis.

00:35:26Marc:Lewis, Lewis.

00:35:27Marc:Jenny did Caroline's.

00:35:28Marc:Right, right.

00:35:30Marc:And then the Evening of the Improv was hosted by whoever was in town that week.

00:35:33Marc:It was one I did.

00:35:34Marc:John Biner hosted Comedy on the Road.

00:35:36Guest:Yes, yes, oh.

00:35:38Guest:And all of them, I was doing the same jokes because they had these guys that justify their jobs.

00:35:41Guest:Freddie, I want to see a tape.

00:35:43Guest:I always do the same voice.

00:35:45Guest:And see your jokes.

00:35:46Guest:So they'd always say, do this joke, do the ones that kill the other time on Comicstrip Live.

00:35:50Guest:So I'm doing the same jokes.

00:35:52Guest:And out of my insecurity, I always had to do some surefire ones in the beginning to get them going.

00:35:58Guest:That's just called being a comic.

00:36:00Guest:Yes.

00:36:00Guest:So I really was very repetitive and I was hating because I did all these stupid cable little three minute shows.

00:36:08Marc:All right.

00:36:09Marc:But then you start.

00:36:10Marc:But what was your big goal?

00:36:11Marc:Was it so if it wasn't to be a headliner, it was just what to get TV work?

00:36:16Marc:Or you didn't know.

00:36:16Marc:As a comic or in general?

00:36:18Marc:In general and as a comic.

00:36:21Guest:I think I never, again, I never had the, I never had the goal to do Carnegie Hall or have albums or be.

00:36:28Guest:No?

00:36:29Guest:No, never to be Bill Cosby and.

00:36:32Guest:Well, why were you doing comedy?

00:36:33Guest:I think, like I said, I knew the real world wasn't for me.

00:36:37Guest:I knew there'd be no job I could do.

00:36:39Guest:And then I'd see character actors, like schmucky guys, that go, I'm like them.

00:36:43Guest:And like I said, then I... The guy who walks on and he's weird?

00:36:45Guest:Well, I remember, like, in Dog Day Afternoon, there was one guy in the beginning that chickens out.

00:36:49Guest:Yeah.

00:36:50Guest:That's who I could be.

00:36:51Guest:I'd sit up on my seat.

00:36:52Guest:I was seeing a therapist.

00:36:53Guest:He goes, don't you think you should have bigger goals?

00:36:55Guest:And maybe he's right because I guess I got that.

00:36:58Guest:I always go, who's that guy?

00:37:00Guest:I hope he comes back in the movie.

00:37:03Guest:I never saw myself being Clint Eastwood or a macho guy.

00:37:07Marc:So you knew your limitations.

00:37:08Yeah.

00:37:08Guest:And I think I'm paying the price.

00:37:11Guest:Like Paul Sand.

00:37:12Guest:Do you know who he is?

00:37:13Guest:Mm-mm.

00:37:14Guest:He was in The Hot Rock.

00:37:15Guest:He was a character actor that, again, isn't doing anything because that was who I aspired to be.

00:37:21Guest:Or Donald Sutherland in The Dirty Dozen.

00:37:23Marc:Yeah.

00:37:24Guest:And I met him, and he's an asshole, so don't meet your idols.

00:37:26Marc:Really?

00:37:27Marc:Where'd you meet him?

00:37:28Guest:I was an extra in this movie, Heaven Help Us.

00:37:31Marc:Yeah.

00:37:32Guest:Do you remember it?

00:37:33Guest:Kind of.

00:37:33Guest:With Catholic school.

00:37:35Guest:They became Catholic boys.

00:37:36Guest:And there were like 400 extras.

00:37:39Guest:And the AD was treating us like shit.

00:37:41Guest:Hey, guys, if you're good, I won't take your drugs away.

00:37:44Guest:So he goes, any comedians?

00:37:46Guest:You know, he was looking to kill time.

00:37:47Guest:And one guy went up and I said, I'm a comedian.

00:37:50Guest:Yeah.

00:37:50Guest:And I got up and I killed because I was sort of a professional comedian.

00:37:54Guest:And Donald Sutherland goes, get off.

00:37:57Guest:Anyone could do jokes, doing religious jokes, because it was Passover and I was talking about being Jewish and working in Catholic Boys.

00:38:03Guest:And because he was trying to be funny.

00:38:05Guest:And then I'd see him throughout the set and he wouldn't look me in the eye and he pushed me off.

00:38:11Guest:And then the AD brought me up again.

00:38:13Guest:He goes, no.

00:38:13Guest:So...

00:38:14Guest:Oh, really?

00:38:15Guest:And because of that, I hate Kiefer Sutherland.

00:38:17Marc:You hate the whole Sutherland clan.

00:38:18Guest:I hate them all.

00:38:19Guest:You know, he was an asshole.

00:38:21Marc:So, okay, so then you did, okay, we did Dr. Katz.

00:38:25Marc:We were on the same Dr. Katz, were we?

00:38:26Marc:I think we were.

00:38:27Marc:I feel like we were.

00:38:28Guest:Not in the same room, but this is funny.

00:38:30Marc:No, I did two of them, and I think you and I are on one.

00:38:32Guest:I bumped into this guy at a supermarket.

00:38:34Guest:I won't say his name because I'm kind of putting him down.

00:38:37Guest:But he goes, hey, I saw you on Dr. Katz.

00:38:40Guest:I go, yeah.

00:38:40Guest:He goes, they're going to use me.

00:38:41Guest:I got a gimmick.

00:38:43Guest:I got glasses.

00:38:44Guest:No one's been on Dr. Katz that wears glasses.

00:38:46Guest:Then you crushed his dreams.

00:38:49Marc:You know, he had it all worked out.

00:38:51Marc:He's calling them up, going... Did you see him afterwards and he said that I... That bastard Marc Maron.

00:38:57Marc:With his glasses.

00:38:58Marc:You know, so you... I've never got that one before.

00:39:01Guest:You know, I know someone else, and she was doing Dr. Katz, and she was calling them up, going, what do you have me wearing?

00:39:07Guest:And she goes, they had me look fat.

00:39:09Guest:And it would be funny because people would recognize me.

00:39:12Guest:Go, I saw you on Dr. Katz.

00:39:13Guest:And I go, do they recognize me as the squiggly guy?

00:39:16Guest:You have a very distinctive voice.

00:39:17Guest:Right, it was the voice.

00:39:18Guest:But answering your question, it was just an accumulation of once in a while people go, hey, I've seen you on something.

00:39:24Guest:So I never had one thing where, no, where...

00:39:27Guest:That was it.

00:39:28Guest:But you've done a lot of television work.

00:39:30Guest:I'm not bitter.

00:39:32Guest:I'm just saying in general, you get to a point.

00:39:34Guest:I just listened to Steve Martin's book on tape.

00:39:37Marc:Yeah.

00:39:37Marc:Did he read it?

00:39:39Guest:Yeah, he did.

00:39:39Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:39:40Guest:It took me a while to get through Gilbert's because he's... Are you still friends with him?

00:39:45Guest:I don't think so.

00:39:47Guest:I mean, in this business, to find friend, like, hey, you know, yourself.

00:39:52Marc:You got guys.

00:39:53Marc:Everybody loves you.

00:39:54Marc:Oh, thank you.

00:39:54Marc:No, I'm not saying.

00:39:55Marc:But, I mean, do you have, who are your comic friends?

00:39:57Guest:You know, this is weird.

00:39:58Marc:When, you mean, friends mean, well, I have.

00:40:01Marc:Who do you talk to, Fred?

00:40:03Marc:I mean, Rakowski was in the movie.

00:40:04Marc:Yes, yes.

00:40:05Marc:You know, I made the.

00:40:06Marc:I hadn't seen him in so long since I saw him in your movie.

00:40:08Marc:I used to love him.

00:40:09Guest:Yeah, my friends became the guys like me that couldn't go near comedy clubs.

00:40:13Marc:Bill Rakowski.

00:40:14Guest:Yeah, this guy George Kalfa, who's funny, but probably no one's heard of him.

00:40:19Guest:Kelly Rogers sometimes.

00:40:22Guest:And I just walk around the Grove a lot aimlessly and bump into people.

00:40:29Guest:But hanging out, you know...

00:40:31Marc:This Grove thing is kind of interesting to me because I used to do that when I was younger and I lived on the Lower East Side and I was doing the comedy thing and I was walking around with a notebook.

00:40:39Marc:I used to make these rounds almost every day.

00:40:41Marc:I'd go to the bookstore, I'd say hi to the guy, I'd go to the guitar store, I'd say hi to that guy, I'd play guitar, I'd go to the place where I got coffee.

00:40:49Marc:It's comforting.

00:40:49Guest:Well, yeah.

00:40:50Guest:I was saying when I stopped hanging out at clubs before The Grove, I would either go hang out.

00:40:56Guest:I had a trifecta.

00:40:57Guest:I'd go to Tower Records video and book soup and listen to sample music till midnight and then go home.

00:41:03Guest:It just made me feel I was interacting, listening to sample music.

00:41:07Guest:Then I would go to Third Street Promenade, which is 10 miles away, and just to walk among people.

00:41:12Guest:Jonathan Katz said something.

00:41:14Guest:He goes, where do you hang out?

00:41:15Guest:I said...

00:41:15Guest:I walk up and down the third street promenade, hoping to bump into somebody goes, what do you walk around blindfolded?

00:41:21Guest:And so, so, so it's almost like a bookstore.

00:41:25Guest:It's because in LA, you don't have a neighborhood feel.

00:41:27Guest:So now the Grove, you know, I, I, I, there's a table in the morning.

00:41:31Guest:They told me to mention it where it's Paul Mazursky.

00:41:33Marc:Oh yeah.

00:41:35Marc:Who told you to mention that?

00:41:36Guest:The guy at the table this morning, mention us.

00:41:38Guest:And meanwhile, it's this, to be honest, I go there at the tail end.

00:41:42Guest:Who else is there?

00:41:43Guest:Mazurski?

00:41:44Guest:George Siegel sometimes.

00:41:45Guest:This younger guy, Greg Pritikin, who doesn't invite me to other things.

00:41:50Guest:I feel left out.

00:41:51Guest:And how often do you do that?

00:41:52Guest:Well, this is the thing.

00:41:53Guest:I never got into coffee.

00:41:54Guest:But to give me a routine, I got addicted to lattes.

00:41:58Guest:Because if you sit by yourself at the Grove, you're a mental patient.

00:42:01Guest:If you just sit with your head down.

00:42:02Guest:But if I drink a latte, I'm a regular guy.

00:42:04Guest:Yeah.

00:42:05Guest:So this thing gives me a routine.

00:42:07Guest:I get a fruit salad.

00:42:08Guest:I sit.

00:42:10Guest:This guy, Ronnie Schell, sometimes Alan Heavey goes there.

00:42:13Guest:And I get there at the tail end.

00:42:15Marc:Sounds like two tables.

00:42:17Marc:How many people come?

00:42:18Marc:Like 20 people?

00:42:18Guest:Some guys I don't like.

00:42:20Guest:One guy's like a reviewer and this kind of... Then they get mad.

00:42:26Guest:Why'd you invite so-and-so to the table?

00:42:28Guest:He ruined it.

00:42:29Guest:They have this thing.

00:42:30Guest:They make it such a big deal.

00:42:31Marc:It's a big schvitz... What do you call it?

00:42:34Guest:Spritzing?

00:42:35Guest:Kibitzing?

00:42:36Guest:Some guy didn't get laughs.

00:42:37Guest:They kick each other.

00:42:38Marc:Oh, really?

00:42:38Marc:So they're sitting around doing bits and riffing off of things and...

00:42:41Guest:They're doing bits and some people hold court.

00:42:45Guest:It's such an honor to be at the table.

00:42:47Guest:If they bring one guy that's not good, they get mad and yell at him the next day.

00:42:52Guest:And then I walk around Barnes & Noble.

00:42:56Guest:I bump into people.

00:42:57Guest:Sometimes my only interactions is the TMZ camera guys, which I'm not going to let them tape me anymore.

00:43:04Marc:They tape you?

00:43:05Guest:Yeah, they do it.

00:43:05Guest:First, it was this thing.

00:43:07Guest:They're making fun of me that I'm unknown.

00:43:09Guest:I didn't ask to be on TMZ because they're at the Grove.

00:43:11Guest:They stand at the movie theater and wait for people to come in.

00:43:14Guest:So sometimes one guy goes, hey, Fred, to show I'm working on the holiday, I'm going to tape you.

00:43:19Guest:Saying he knows I'm going to get rejected.

00:43:21Guest:Right.

00:43:22Guest:But just to prove.

00:43:23Marc:That he's on top.

00:43:24Marc:Yeah.

00:43:25Guest:So at first they would have me once in a while.

00:43:27Guest:They're all the TMZ smart asses.

00:43:29Guest:Who's this schmuck?

00:43:31Guest:And so I've been on it a few times.

00:43:33Guest:And they always groan on that.

00:43:35Guest:This loser again.

00:43:37Guest:And I'm not going to do it again because.

00:43:39Guest:You mean in the room on the show?

00:43:40Guest:Yeah.

00:43:40Guest:All the snarky.

00:43:41Guest:Yeah.

00:43:42Guest:Comedian, whatever they are, like, who's Ruth Stoller?

00:43:45Guest:Oh, and then Harvey groaned the last time.

00:43:47Guest:Oh, him.

00:43:49Guest:I'm not saying I'm a celebrity.

00:43:50Guest:Put me on TMZ.

00:43:51Guest:So now I'm not going to say anything.

00:43:53Marc:So they just, because they're bored, they tape you, and then it makes it onto the thing.

00:43:57Guest:Many times it doesn't.

00:43:59Guest:Like I said, like one time there's a new TMZ guy, and the other guy goes, no, no, he's here every day.

00:44:03Guest:Don't do it.

00:44:04Guest:Harvey gets mad.

00:44:05Guest:So or sometimes if I say something like Kathy Griffin's an asshole, I like it or Ray Romano makes a lot of money.

00:44:12Guest:Oh, we got a scoop.

00:44:13Guest:What's that weird guy, Fred?

00:44:15Guest:You know, you know, so.

00:44:17Guest:So you have a concern about becoming a character?

00:44:19Guest:Well, I don't need this unsolicited rejection.

00:44:22Guest:Like I walk by, they go, oh, Fred, they got mad.

00:44:25Guest:There's a mandate.

00:44:26Guest:No more of you.

00:44:27Guest:You're not a celebrity or.

00:44:29Guest:or if uh bullies yeah i it's yeah i call it red carpet comedy like best week ever i hate right yeah it's like oh this guy's a loser and but do you do you have people at these places you go hang out at the table sometimes if you're feeling up to it yeah and then you go to the bookstore and then but you have people you say hi to i like i like the best week camera guys i talk to them a lot yeah i like them i don't like that they when they put me on they all go this asshole again yeah

00:44:57Marc:Yeah, because you didn't ask for that.

00:44:58Marc:I didn't say I'm a celebrity.

00:44:59Marc:Put me on TMZ.

00:45:00Marc:But basically, you're a New York guy.

00:45:02Marc:You're a guy that's sort of isolated.

00:45:05Marc:You're socially awkward.

00:45:07Marc:So you go out.

00:45:08Guest:And I always say I could deal with people in three-minute increments.

00:45:11Guest:That's what's great about The Grove.

00:45:12Guest:These are a lot of people I wouldn't call up.

00:45:14Guest:Yeah.

00:45:15Marc:But it makes you feel connected as opposed to sitting at home in your house going nuts.

00:45:19Marc:And people go, why are you here every day?

00:45:21Guest:Why the hell not?

00:45:22Guest:I get out.

00:45:22Guest:I see things.

00:45:23Marc:Why did you stop doing comedy in 1993?

00:45:25Marc:I mean, was it a conscious decision?

00:45:27Marc:You just couldn't cut it anymore?

00:45:28Marc:Was the depression so bad?

00:45:29Guest:It was gradual where I was getting these severe TMJ headaches, blinding.

00:45:36Guest:i just hated just my act didn't really work for 45 minutes to an hour they'd switch me with the middle or you know i'd be honest i'd be on some radio show and and that i'm supposed to be getting people and i think i i like the steve martin book he he he quit because he liked he wanted to interact and not be so isolated but i'm like steve martin except i'm not steve martin and didn't have the amazing success to put it aside

00:46:02Guest:In a perfect world, I'd have other creative successes and go, I did stand up.

00:46:05Guest:I took it as far as I could take it.

00:46:07Guest:Unless you're like you or Dave Attell or Dom Herrera, one of these guys that really does it and loves it and goes from show to show.

00:46:16Marc:I just started doing that, though, because I'm more like you than I am like those guys.

00:46:21Marc:Really?

00:46:22Marc:Yeah, because for years, I was not a successful comedian.

00:46:26Marc:And it's arguable now.

00:46:28Guest:I remember when I was doing stand-up, when Robin Williams was doing Moscow and the Hudson.

00:46:33Guest:And I remember he's doing a movie, and then he'd come in at night and do sets all night.

00:46:38Guest:I'd go, wow, if I was in a movie, I'd be just trying to get to sleep and be excited.

00:46:43Guest:So I think all my dreams... No, I get that too, though.

00:46:45Guest:All my dreams were...

00:46:47Guest:When I do sitcoms, I hate studio audiences.

00:46:51Guest:I don't need the roar of the fake crowd because that's what it is.

00:46:56Marc:I don't need... The reason I relate to you is I think that we did stand-up so we wouldn't be invisible.

00:47:04Guest:Yes.

00:47:05Guest:For my ego, I like when someone goes, hey, I've seen you.

00:47:07Guest:You're funny.

00:47:08Marc:Sure.

00:47:08Guest:Or just on Twitter, I like jokes retweeted.

00:47:15Guest:Yes.

00:47:17Guest:But I don't like hanging out in the clubs doing an act for an hour.

00:47:21Guest:It doesn't feel natural to me.

00:47:23Marc:Well, I don't mind doing that because I've gotten better over the years.

00:47:27Marc:But I think that, just so you know, for me, for years, because I did so many other things and I did radio for a little while, I never had to draw on the road.

00:47:34Marc:I'd go on the road.

00:47:35Marc:I'd never get switched with the middle, but I wouldn't draw people.

00:47:39Marc:And then I'd hate that feeling.

00:47:41Marc:I was never that comfortable when I was younger going into radio shows and...

00:47:46Marc:this expectation that would seem so unnatural.

00:47:48Marc:But what happened to me, I mean, in a similar way that happened to you, is I stopped giving a shit, but I didn't want to stop doing it.

00:47:55Marc:When I started doing the podcast, I had nothing.

00:47:57Marc:I couldn't get work, I couldn't get nothing.

00:47:58Marc:Get out of here.

00:47:59Marc:Yeah, no.

00:47:59Guest:Did you do stand-up spotlight?

00:48:01Marc:No, I did all the shows.

00:48:02Marc:I did Conan all the time.

00:48:03Marc:I did half-hour specials.

00:48:04Marc:But that was years ago, and it wasn't really a comedy showcase.

00:48:08Marc:And I liked the comedy I did, but you don't know what clicks or why anything clicks.

00:48:12Marc:But in the sensitivity area, I was the same as you.

00:48:15Marc:I was completely self-conscious.

00:48:17Marc:I never felt like I did what was necessary to kill.

00:48:21Marc:When I was younger, I would do it because I was angry and more focused.

00:48:25Marc:But as I got older and more sensitive, it became like...

00:48:30Marc:But I, but I can't do it.

00:48:32Marc:You know, I know I can, you know, I've done it.

00:48:33Marc:I always say you can't dabble.

00:48:36Guest:No, I never dabbled.

00:48:36Marc:I never had him.

00:48:37Guest:I'm saying that's why I had to stop.

00:48:38Guest:You got to be the guy that wants that.

00:48:41Guest:Like I tried doing it.

00:48:42Guest:It's what I do.

00:48:44Guest:And I wanted to do other stuff.

00:48:45Marc:Okay.

00:48:46Guest:And then 10 years ago, I did it again to see if I missed it.

00:48:50Guest:And I'm at the ice house and I like comics, but not in a room.

00:48:53Guest:We're in a green room and, and they're sitting around talking.

00:48:56Guest:I know prevents a show, you know, but that's different.

00:48:59Guest:Did you do that?

00:48:59Guest:No.

00:49:00Marc:Why?

00:49:00Guest:I wasn't asked.

00:49:02Guest:And maybe if he does another season, who knows?

00:49:05Guest:But that's different.

00:49:08Guest:That's the green room.

00:49:09Marc:The thing I don't understand is how we are a clan, a community of socially awkward people one way or the other.

00:49:16Marc:You get people who can't shut up.

00:49:18Marc:You get people with bravado.

00:49:19Marc:But there's also a lot of socially awkward guys amongst us.

00:49:22Marc:I'm not aggressive.

00:49:23Marc:I think a lot of... Yeah, but you must have been embraced.

00:49:25Guest:I mean... Yeah, but I'm saying a lot of comics like you, Dennis Leary, they... If you have social flaws, you overcompensate and you're very confident.

00:49:33Guest:Like Alan Havy.

00:49:34Guest:Yeah, babe.

00:49:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:49:35Guest:I never learned overcompensation.

00:49:37Guest:And I don't have... I don't really... But you weren't rejected by the comic community.

00:49:42Marc:You just decided you didn't want to be there.

00:49:44Guest:Well, I was rejected for like HBO specials.

00:49:48Marc:No, but I mean by us.

00:49:49Marc:By comics.

00:49:50Guest:No, no.

00:49:51Guest:I...

00:49:51Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:49:52Guest:But I'm saying I always wanted to get off stage.

00:49:55Guest:I never understood why guys like Kindler do the bookstores.

00:49:59Guest:And I think I was spoiled.

00:50:00Guest:In New York, I did the comedy boom.

00:50:02Guest:And you can make a living, like I said.

00:50:04Guest:Then you come out here and you either work for free at a bookstore or you have to go on the road Tuesday through Sunday.

00:50:10Guest:So I didn't have that love of it where I wanted to do it for free after making a living.

00:50:15Marc:Did your parents ever support you ever?

00:50:17Guest:No.

00:50:18Guest:My mother, when I would do a TV show, my sister said she would hide in the other room where she couldn't look.

00:50:24Guest:And what if he doesn't do good?

00:50:26Guest:So I think my father was proud, but like I said, I think he's like Rain Man and she could never say I'm proud.

00:50:32Guest:Are they still alive?

00:50:32Guest:My father passed away.

00:50:34Guest:Sorry.

00:50:34Guest:And my mother... Thank you.

00:50:36Guest:Um...

00:50:36Guest:She's only proud if someone else validated it.

00:50:41Guest:I guess you're good.

00:50:41Guest:Someone said they saw you on The Nanny.

00:50:43Guest:So if someone... You know what I'm saying?

00:50:45Guest:It's just... She's still... And I did all my jokes about her, so she never liked it.

00:50:52Guest:But...

00:50:53Marc:I mean... That's their biggest fear, and also their biggest joy.

00:50:57Marc:Well, let me ask you about you.

00:50:59Guest:Now, before the podcast, did you have something you go, I could be doing this instead of stand-up?

00:51:06Guest:Is that why maybe you kept in the trenches?

00:51:08Marc:Well, no, they sort of faded away, and I always loved comedy, and I always wanted... I felt... I blame myself.

00:51:13Marc:I didn't really blame the business that much.

00:51:15Marc:Ultimately, I thought...

00:51:16Marc:You know, maybe I'm not, you know, finishing my jokes, right?

00:51:19Marc:Maybe I'm not, you know, putting enough focus on them.

00:51:21Marc:You know, maybe they're too esoteric or too thinky.

00:51:24Marc:And then like, as I, as like, when I started doing this, I, I, I didn't have anything else and I no longer could give a shit anymore.

00:51:32Marc:I couldn't hang my hopes on other people making decisions about me.

00:51:36Marc:And the, you know, I had no idea what this was going to do.

00:51:39Marc:But now when I go out and do standup, I really have no fear at all.

00:51:42Marc:That's great.

00:51:44Marc:And I have a few people coming out to see me.

00:51:46Marc:I don't fill theaters, but I have enough support to feel very comfortable.

00:51:50Marc:And even if I don't, I've got skills.

00:51:52Marc:I mean, I've been doing this all my life and I never stopped doing it.

00:51:54Marc:And I always did it every week.

00:51:56Guest:Maybe if I got to a point where people came to see me and I didn't have to, yeah, have this, something was at stake.

00:52:03Guest:Like, I think what, I had the delusion that maybe I could be a character actor.

00:52:07Guest:Like, I remember arguing with a girlfriend, don't you see I could maybe be like Jeff Goldblum?

00:52:11Guest:I don't know.

00:52:13Guest:And so I was going, please reassure me I could be like Jeff Goldblum.

00:52:16Guest:So I think I had the delusion and stuff.

00:52:19Guest:I could be, you know, Steve Buscemi kind of guy.

00:52:22Guest:So I think, and then I started getting a little guest star part.

00:52:25Guest:So that helped me wean away from it.

00:52:27Guest:The fact, all right, this is my next chapter.

00:52:29Guest:And it's funny, what happened with guest stars is I got into a false comfort zone like stand-up.

00:52:34Guest:With stand-up, I was in a false comfort zone where I go, oh, I'm on stage.

00:52:38Guest:People see I'm being funny.

00:52:40Guest:That'll lead to something else.

00:52:41Guest:It didn't.

00:52:42Guest:Then I started doing delivery guy parts and going, the network people see I'm being funny.

00:52:46Guest:It led to more delivery guy parts.

00:52:48Guest:So I remember towards the end, I loved filling up spaces on the calendar, but I hated the work.

00:52:54Guest:I loved the feeling of Washington and filling the calendar.

00:52:58Guest:And I used to fill it up and then hope something came up and I could get out of it.

00:53:03Guest:Did you ever do that?

00:53:04Guest:Yes.

00:53:05Guest:I couldn't say no, and I really didn't want to do the job, and I was praying I could make something up to get out of it a week before.

00:53:13Marc:I have more in common with you.

00:53:15Guest:Than you would think.

00:53:18Guest:I thought you were like a David Tell guy.

00:53:20Guest:David Tell on his birthday has to do 17 sets, and Louis C.K., could you believe this guy writes his own shows and does every show about five minutes of great stand-up?

00:53:30Guest:How does he do both?

00:53:31Marc:Well, he's in a groove and he loves it and he's a real worker.

00:53:36Marc:When you have the innate fear or sensitivity around rejection and that sort of guides your life more than the joy of transcending it, everything becomes dread.

00:53:46Marc:You're filled with dread all the time.

00:53:48Guest:I'll tell you something funny, Mark, being an old guy, but when I first started doing stand-up,

00:53:52Guest:And I was in a groove, and the comedy people go, that must be the hardest thing in the world.

00:53:56Guest:How do you do it?

00:53:56Guest:I go, what are you talking about, the hardest thing in the world?

00:53:59Guest:And it wasn't, because it was the comedy boom.

00:54:01Guest:You effortlessly got jobs.

00:54:02Guest:All you had to do to get work was pick up the phone, Rick Messina.

00:54:05Guest:They'd call comics.

00:54:07Guest:If you had a car, comics got work because they can drive to Jersey.

00:54:12Guest:And the hard part was initially...

00:54:15Marc:do get in your act but once you had the comfort of these jokes will get me going yeah I didn't understand now I understand it's the fucking hardest thing till I got older it's more the hanging out the repetition the everyone eventually and also that moment on stage sometimes where you realize you're not getting over and that you know and then like you know all you have is what you have and if that isn't getting over then it's it's a very horrendous humiliating lonely place

00:54:42Guest:See, I was very low-key and subtle, and I remember I'd do my big saver closer, which was just maybe a good joke.

00:54:49Marc:I didn't have a, and in the middle, and it bombed.

00:54:52Guest:Or did you ever have this where you're killing, but then you do your one new joke, and it bombs, and you're miserable.

00:54:57Marc:Yeah, I mean, the style I work in, I wasn't really constricted by jokes, and I improvised an awful lot.

00:55:04Marc:So, you know, it's become different.

00:55:07Marc:But I understand everything you're saying, that the dread was overtook everything.

00:55:15Marc:Absolutely.

00:55:16Marc:So, like, the relief of even doing a good set was not enough to sort of comfort you through the chronic dread.

00:55:23Guest:Oh, I was going to say, when I tried coming back, seeing if I missed it,

00:55:26Guest:I thought even if, let's say, I get laughs, I still have an agenda.

00:55:29Guest:Okay, I'm funny.

00:55:30Guest:Maybe I could do a special.

00:55:31Guest:I still have the result orientation of, so what?

00:55:34Guest:I get laughs.

00:55:35Guest:What does this lead to?

00:55:37Guest:I feel good doing this.

00:55:38Guest:I feel good hanging out with friends and getting laughs in a conversation.

00:55:41Guest:I don't feel I need to get up there.

00:55:44Marc:Well, it's not your job right now.

00:55:46Guest:Yeah, and for my ego.

00:55:47Marc:And you don't want it as a job.

00:55:49Guest:No, exactly.

00:55:50Guest:It became a job, especially because I got spoiled in the comedy boom.

00:55:53Marc:Right.

00:55:53Marc:So this movie that I watched, Fred and Vinny, I thought was heavy.

00:55:59Marc:It made my heart heavy, but I understood it.

00:56:01Marc:It's about isolation.

00:56:03Marc:It's about isolation, and you say it's based on a true story?

00:56:06Guest:Yeah, I knew this guy, Vinny, who was agoraphobic, but he was the happiest agoraphobic and he lived vicariously through me.

00:56:13Guest:So everything I did was an adventure, going to the video store.

00:56:16Marc:Did he live in another town?

00:56:17Guest:He lived in the Philly area.

00:56:19Marc:So that's all true in the movie.

00:56:20Marc:Yes.

00:56:20Marc:And you would talk on the phone.

00:56:21Guest:And he was the adoring parent I never had.

00:56:23Guest:And I'd call him up and he just loved every syllable, every story.

00:56:27Marc:It's so funny because the thing that was really interesting about the movie and I guess about your real life is that you have this relationship with this guy Vinnie over the phone.

00:56:38Marc:He's living vicariously through you, but the way you described your life, no one would say, wow, that is an adventure.

00:56:44Guest:I know everything I did, you know, because my mother's the opposite where everything is shameful.

00:56:50Guest:I remember when she wouldn't want to see my first apartment, but she needed the bathroom because she didn't want to see how I lived, you know, and I had to lead her like she didn't want to look.

00:56:59Marc:She closed her eyes and he walked her to the bathroom.

00:57:02Guest:I swear.

00:57:03Guest:Yeah.

00:57:04Guest:So everything was shameful.

00:57:05Guest:But Vinny, it's the man.

00:57:07Guest:Oh, my God.

00:57:08Guest:Oh, they did a cartoon to you.

00:57:10Guest:I'm screaming, man.

00:57:11Guest:I'm screaming.

00:57:11Guest:Oh, my God.

00:57:12Guest:And your cat went in the sink and lied there.

00:57:15Guest:Everything.

00:57:15Marc:How'd you meet that guy?

00:57:17Guest:Actually, I know it's another contradiction.

00:57:18Guest:He tried comedy in the 80s and just did it in the Philly area, then quit.

00:57:23Guest:And we became fast friends.

00:57:26Guest:And then he became this non-functional guy sort of living in an attic for free and living with people for free.

00:57:32Guest:And he was, yeah, great until he came out to stay with me.

00:57:37Marc:So you lived here in L.A.

00:57:38Marc:and you kept in touch with him over the phone.

00:57:40Guest:All the time.

00:57:40Marc:And then you asked him to move in with you?

00:57:42Guest:No, no, no.

00:57:42Guest:He said, hey, man, I may want to try being an extra.

00:57:45Guest:I may want to try doing what you do.

00:57:48Guest:He said that he would stay with me and alternate with other comics who said they'd put him up.

00:57:52Marc:Some other guys knew him?

00:57:53Guest:Yeah.

00:57:54Guest:So I thought, man, Vinny in L.A.?

00:57:56Guest:And I thought it would be so great to show him where all these things happened.

00:57:59Guest:Turned out he got evicted for staying for free.

00:58:02Guest:He had nowhere else to put him up.

00:58:04Marc:That was what was behind his move?

00:58:06Guest:Yeah.

00:58:06Yeah.

00:58:06Guest:and and then i didn't get to show my amazing life he just lied on my floor and sulked so how long did that go on for a few months yeah that's the movie yeah what happened the uh it's like a love story can't wait to him to come out and then yeah it's just a disappointment yeah and then what happened i'm hoping someone will see this movie but what happened in the real relationship

00:58:28Guest:Real relationship, which I'm giving the movie away, but that's okay.

00:58:32Guest:No, no.

00:58:32Guest:He came out.

00:58:33Guest:There was no end in sight.

00:58:37Marc:He drove you crazy.

00:58:38Guest:Yeah, and I had no money at the time to get rid of him, and I felt guilty.

00:58:43Guest:It's not black and white.

00:58:45Guest:It's not like Tom Arnold, Jim Belushi guy burping and spitting on the floor.

00:58:50Guest:He was trying, but...

00:58:52Guest:Yeah, I know this makes sound compelling, but we were estranged for many years because I hated myself for being so needy.

00:58:57Guest:I needed this pathetic guy's validation and wondering if it deceived me.

00:59:02Guest:So it was an estrangement and an arc and all this stuff.

00:59:06Marc:But did what happened in the movie really happen at the end?

00:59:09Marc:I'm not going to say.

00:59:09Marc:Yeah.

00:59:10Marc:Well, I mean, it's a very thoughtful and very, you know, I can appreciate movies like this in the way that, like, I understand it.

00:59:19Marc:I'm a comic.

00:59:20Marc:I know people like that.

00:59:21Marc:I have those feelings.

00:59:23Marc:Right.

00:59:25Marc:But it's difficult, you know, because we are socially awkward guys and we do live a life that no one else lives.

00:59:31Guest:I could never see you socially awkward.

00:59:32Guest:You'll go from one chick to another.

00:59:34Guest:You're the slick guy that's smart on stage.

00:59:37Guest:It's funny.

00:59:38Marc:Right.

00:59:39Marc:But underneath that, it took me a long time to be comfortable with myself.

00:59:45Marc:Whatever I manufactured to deal just turned out to be a little better than yours.

00:59:51Guest:Everyone's is better than mine.

00:59:55Marc:But it's a very touching movie.

00:59:56Marc:So what happened?

00:59:58Marc:How was it available, by the way?

01:00:00Guest:That's the thing.

01:00:01Guest:I feel like I'm a comic, like going on these radio shows in Texas, and no one sees it.

01:00:06Guest:It's right now just at festivals, and it drove me crazy.

01:00:11Guest:I had to go on Facebook and Twitter, and that's trying to get people.

01:00:15Guest:So we're just hoping... Something happens with it?

01:00:17Marc:Something happens.

01:00:18Marc:And I've been giving it out.

01:00:19Marc:Who directed it?

01:00:20Marc:Steve Scrovan.

01:00:21Marc:He directed it and wrote it?

01:00:22Marc:No, I wrote it.

01:00:23Marc:Because Scrovan is a... He did The Unreasonable Man.

01:00:27Marc:Right.

01:00:28Marc:But he was a comic, but he's had a tremendous career in television, right?

01:00:32Guest:Yeah.

01:00:32Guest:What happened was he had the bug to do another movie because... Sorry, I'm not burping for food, but just... You're nervous.

01:00:41Marc:No, acid and stuff.

01:00:42Marc:Okay.

01:00:44Guest:I never... Did you eat breakfast?

01:00:46Guest:Not really.

01:00:47Guest:Just a fruit salad with the table.

01:00:49Marc:You were at the table this morning?

01:00:50Guest:Briefly.

01:00:51Guest:Who was there?

01:00:52Guest:Ronnie Shell, do you know who he is?

01:00:54Marc:No.

01:00:55Guest:He always brags he did 60 Goma Piles.

01:00:58Guest:I've got to go to this table.

01:00:59Guest:This cartoonist, Charlie Brown.

01:01:01Guest:Oh, they'd love you.

01:01:02Guest:This guy, Greg Pritikin, who's like the youngest guy there.

01:01:06Guest:He's like 40.

01:01:07Guest:Yeah.

01:01:08Guest:And he acts like an Echo Park hipster, but he's an old Jew.

01:01:11Marc:Was Mazursky there?

01:01:13Guest:Not today.

01:01:14Guest:He must be pretty old.

01:01:17Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:18Guest:And a lot of them are talking about the ailments, which unfortunately I don't have.

01:01:23Marc:That happens to everyone.

01:01:24Marc:Everyone has stuff.

01:01:25Marc:So basically... You cross a line and it's all about that.

01:01:27Guest:What the hell was I just talking about?

01:01:28Marc:You're talking about Scrovan and you just went to the table.

01:01:31Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:32Guest:So I wrote... Actually, I did a sit and spin.

01:01:33Guest:I did a story and he...

01:01:35Guest:And he encouraged me to write a story about my friendship with Vinny.

01:01:37Guest:He goes, we should do this as a movie.

01:01:39Guest:He was supposed to write it with me.

01:01:41Guest:But he got so busy with his sitcom stuff.

01:01:44Guest:So I took the liberty and wrote it.

01:01:46Guest:And then it took us a while to figure out how to make the movie because we're not in that world.

01:01:51Guest:Yeah.

01:01:51Guest:And we're not in the world.

01:01:52Guest:Steve Scrovin's the greatest guy in the world, but he's more passive than me.

01:01:57Guest:I keep saying, put it on your Facebook page.

01:01:59Guest:So that's why I'm tired of pushing it.

01:02:01Guest:I had to make up postcards and pay for DVDs.

01:02:03Guest:I'm handing them out in the street.

01:02:05Guest:And then I went to Newport to a festival, and I'm trying to get people to come, and only friends come I pay for.

01:02:14Guest:Did your mother see it?

01:02:16Guest:No.

01:02:17Guest:No.

01:02:20Guest:She doesn't know how to put a DVD in, and my father died, so I'm not saying that to be funny.

01:02:25Guest:I don't know if I want her to see it yet, because she'd go, Freddie, do you really live like that?

01:02:32Guest:Because I always make up...

01:02:34Guest:when I'm on the phone, to get off the phone with her, that I'm meeting some friend for lunch.

01:02:37Guest:Because she always, you know, you're always alone.

01:02:40Guest:You know, I go, no, I'm meeting my friend John.

01:02:42Guest:And then she says to my sister, Fred only has one friend, John.

01:02:46Guest:So I'm always making up.

01:02:48Guest:I got to go.

01:02:49Guest:I'm at a big table.

01:02:50Guest:Well, I do a table a little bit in the morning, but...

01:02:52Guest:So I think it's very real, the movie.

01:02:55Marc:Yeah.

01:02:55Marc:Does she worry about you?

01:02:56Marc:I mean, what is... I can't decide whether she's constantly beating the shit out of you emotionally or she's worried about you.

01:03:02Guest:I think yes and no.

01:03:03Guest:I think maybe a lot of middle-aged people get this.

01:03:06Guest:Your parents worry, but then they get to a point where they go...

01:03:09Guest:All right, this is what it is.

01:03:11Guest:You know, like when I got a cat, she goes, why'd you get a cat?

01:03:13Guest:Not a girlfriend.

01:03:14Guest:Then I got a second cat.

01:03:15Guest:So I think she goes, get a giraffe for all I care, you know?

01:03:20Guest:So she looks like I gave up.

01:03:22Guest:So she would worry.

01:03:24Guest:She worried I played a gay guy and suddenly Susan and...

01:03:28Guest:She didn't like that.

01:03:29Guest:But I think it's at a point where it's... Did she see on Ray?

01:03:33Guest:Yeah.

01:03:33Guest:And she liked that?

01:03:34Guest:She liked that.

01:03:35Guest:Oh, good.

01:03:36Guest:Plus, I was on a show, Handy Manny, and it was a doll of my character.

01:03:41Guest:And you press it, and I talk.

01:03:44Guest:And she liked it.

01:03:45Guest:But she goes, how come it doesn't talk every time you press it?

01:03:48Guest:Because sometimes it makes this other gurgling sound.

01:03:51Guest:So...

01:03:52Guest:So it's like I think she's proud because sometimes someone comes in to fix something.

01:03:58Guest:Yeah.

01:03:58Guest:And they go, oh, he knew you.

01:04:00Guest:Like there's a picture of me.

01:04:01Marc:Yeah.

01:04:02Guest:So I think people have to remind her to be proud.

01:04:05Marc:Yeah.

01:04:06Marc:And that was your whole life with that.

01:04:07Guest:i i again i i understand why people would be shocked i'm a comedian because like bill and george they that they played them well one george calfer the other guy played bill rakowski yeah they played this straight married couple and for like 16 17 years bill rakowski and george calfer were they're straight but they were roommates yeah and bill says everyone thought we were gay i think we were gay oh they were a gay married couple in the movie i mean

01:04:33Guest:They were straight, but people think they're gay.

01:04:38Guest:People like this one girl, she works as a waitress.

01:04:41Guest:She goes, I see you walking by all the time.

01:04:43Guest:What's wrong?

01:04:45Guest:Sarah Silverman said, you're always the guy walking.

01:04:48Guest:Whenever I'm driving, there's Fred walking.

01:04:50Guest:So you're a mental patient if you walk.

01:04:53Yeah.

01:04:53Guest:No, it's in LA.

01:04:54Marc:Yeah, that's true.

01:04:55Marc:What's wrong with that guy?

01:04:56Marc:What happened to that guy?

01:04:57Guest:Yeah, they see this weird middle-aged guy walking, swinging his arms.

01:05:00Guest:So what happened with this other podcast?

01:05:02Marc:Oh, yes.

01:05:03Marc:Oh, I never finished a story.

01:05:04Marc:Oh, the guy at the Apple store.

01:05:05Marc:So you're the guy that goes in.

01:05:06Marc:Everyone knows you at the Grove.

01:05:07Marc:Here comes Weird Fred Zoller.

01:05:08Marc:At the first, he was like, I love you.

01:05:10Guest:Hey, dude, I'm a comedy geek.

01:05:12Marc:Yeah.

01:05:12Guest:And then it's now he's a sidekick on a show.

01:05:15Guest:And it's this snarky sense of humor like...

01:05:18Guest:pop references and like oh this guy is a loser and he's like and he's this big guy and he's got this hot girlfriend because i don't like that nerd means cool now when i was a kid nerd misfit now it's like dude i'm a nerd i'm going to comic-con meaning i'm into cool stuff everyone else is into yeah a big shift in the culture there yeah and this is the podcast is called nerdist now i don't want i know

01:05:43Guest:I've seen Chris Hardwick.

01:05:45Guest:He's a nice guy.

01:05:46Guest:He's talented and charming, but is he a nerd?

01:05:49Marc:No.

01:05:50Marc:You're preaching to the choir here, buddy.

01:05:53Guest:You know what I mean?

01:05:54Guest:It's like, dude, we're nerds.

01:05:55Guest:No, you're into cool robots.

01:05:58Guest:Yeah, so it annoys me.

01:06:01Guest:Yeah, I did a song about it.

01:06:02Guest:You'll play it?

01:06:07Guest:Yeah.

01:06:08Guest:It's just weird how I was scared you would go...

01:06:13Guest:I don't know.

01:06:13Guest:Like, on my Twitter, people go, do Marc Maron's show.

01:06:17Guest:And that's how they sound on Twitter.

01:06:19Marc:You're reading no tone.

01:06:21Guest:Yeah.

01:06:21Guest:Like, I'm afraid, you know.

01:06:23Guest:Yeah, unsolicited rejection.

01:06:25Guest:I'd probably love Nerdist if I was on it.

01:06:27Guest:It's, like, all, you know, it's all this stuff, like, people, you know.

01:06:31Guest:Yeah, unsolicited.

01:06:33Guest:You know, with the festivals, you get unsolicited rejection because people go, you know, we were at Slamdance, so we've done legitimate stuff.

01:06:39Marc:Yeah.

01:06:39Guest:You know.

01:06:40Marc:Yeah.

01:06:40Guest:You know.

01:06:41Guest:It's a real movie.

01:06:42Guest:I think it's pretty real.

01:06:43Guest:But then festivals will hear, wow, man, you're at Slamdance.

01:06:47Guest:Please send us the movie.

01:06:48Guest:We'd love to consider you.

01:06:49Guest:So then you send the screeners, and they send you this form letter.

01:06:53Guest:Due to over 5,000 submissions, we have passed on your movie, but please keep trying.

01:06:59Guest:I didn't ask for Florida or Germany or Newark or anything.

01:07:04Guest:That's my favorite thing in the business, unsolicited rejection.

01:07:06Marc:Well, I tell you, the way the world is set up now, there's no shortage of unsolicited rejection.

01:07:11Marc:I got some this morning.

01:07:11Marc:Got an email from some hater and, you know, and depending on what day it is, I'll either engage or I won't.

01:07:17Marc:See, I go look at my phone right now to see if he, like, you know, I sent him a letter calling him a fucking insecure bully.

01:07:22Marc:Yeah, see, then he wrote back and it's going to be worse.

01:07:25Guest:But did you ever get someone offering you something and then go... Years ago, when I cared about who my agent was, I saw him with a new agent.

01:07:34Guest:I thought he was going to be good, right?

01:07:35Guest:Yeah.

01:07:36Guest:So this guy from Gersh says, Freddie, give us your tape.

01:07:40Guest:We'd be great for you.

01:07:42Guest:We're really good.

01:07:42Guest:I go, well, I like this new agent.

01:07:44Guest:He goes, Freddie, this is Gersh.

01:07:45Guest:Come on.

01:07:46Guest:Yeah.

01:07:46Guest:I went, all right.

01:07:48Guest:So then I give him my tape and he calls me.

01:07:50Guest:He goes, Fred, we decided to pass.

01:07:52Yeah.

01:07:52Guest:I didn't ask, you know, he was begging to reject me.

01:07:56Marc:Yeah.

01:07:57Marc:The thing is that, that fucking the heat, the emotional heat of rejection is, uh, is, you know, it, that is the fight.

01:08:07Marc:I mean that, I mean, like I have to assume like, and now if I'm thinking about it, honestly, right now, that moment where you feel that rejection and that horrible erasing sort of, you know, uh, diminishing, uh,

01:08:19Marc:pain of that you know that's what we fight against when we do comedy and I love they say don't take it personally and I as soon as you engage with some of these guys like a lot of times they're like fuck you you're cunt and then you like you know then I write back like did it feel good to say that do you feel better about yourself for doing that to me

01:08:36Guest:With my movie, I get unsolicited advice where it's locked.

01:08:40Guest:Steve Scrovin has no more money to fix.

01:08:42Guest:And then my neighbor, people go, let me look at it.

01:08:44Guest:I will give you my notes, my idiot neighbor.

01:08:46Guest:I go, it's locked.

01:08:47Guest:He goes, it is never locked.

01:08:48Guest:And they tell you what's wrong with it.

01:08:50Guest:Like, I see the acting in Angelo.

01:08:52Guest:Like, they're giving you advice for something that's done, which you didn't ask for.

01:08:56Guest:Yeah.

01:08:56Marc:You know, but I mean, it's like some people have a tougher skin and some it has to do with, you know, what what we require emotionally.

01:09:04Marc:And it seems that, you know, you and I on some level were either sort of abandoned by our parents.

01:09:10Marc:And so, yeah, so you get this.

01:09:12Marc:You kind of need this kind of reassurance all the time.

01:09:14Guest:Like some stuff I don't take personally, like auditions.

01:09:17Guest:I know when I go in, they're looking for a poker buddy.

01:09:20Guest:Dude, rule number three with chicks.

01:09:22Guest:I'm Donald Logue type.

01:09:23Guest:And I don't want to go on it, but I know not to take it personally because you know what they're looking for.

01:09:28Marc:Yeah, to a certain point, you're like, I'm not going to be that guy.

01:09:30Marc:I do that too.

01:09:31Guest:Yeah, not to take it personally, but the movie is very personal.

01:09:34Marc:Yeah.

01:09:35Guest:Or I tried writing a book.

01:09:37Guest:And literary agents rejected.

01:09:39Guest:It was very personal.

01:09:40Guest:It was about being the perennial TV guest star guy.

01:09:43Guest:And yeah, when it's very personal, you take it personally when it's a personal art thing.

01:09:48Marc:Well, I will tell you right now with confidence that people love you.

01:09:51Guest:I appreciate that.

01:09:52Guest:I appreciate Bob Saget, Fred Willett, Sarah Silverman, and maybe Harry Mandel because they did a favor for me on a web series I'm going to do.

01:10:01Marc:Oh, and... For Adam.com.

01:10:03Marc:Oh, good, good, good.

01:10:04Guest:Great people.

01:10:05Guest:Good.

01:10:05Guest:It's just four little five-minute episodes, and hopefully there'll be more.

01:10:10Guest:So these guys, that's why I'm trying to be a mensch.

01:10:13Guest:Like, I want to pay it forward.

01:10:15Guest:Like, these guys, not friend friends when we hang out, but how Bob Saget got back to me right away on an email.

01:10:22Guest:They go, how'd you get my email?

01:10:23Guest:He didn't do that, and...

01:10:25Guest:Well, what's it going to take for you to know that people do appreciate you for who you are?

01:10:29Marc:Oh, I do.

01:10:29Marc:No, I know that.

01:10:30Marc:I'm not saying I don't know.

01:10:31Marc:But what's it going to take for you to not beat yourself up before you do these things?

01:10:36Guest:I'm just saying I feel appreciated, but stand-up is a hard animal.

01:10:40Guest:The thing, you know what I'm saying?

01:10:42Guest:You got to go at the laugh factory, guys on the, you know, just watch.

01:10:46Guest:You know what I mean?

01:10:48Guest:Maybe in a perfect world, if I got like you, where people want to see you.

01:10:53Marc:There's a few.

01:10:54Marc:Let's not go crazy.

01:10:55Marc:You know what I'm saying?

01:10:56Marc:About a third of the audience, that comes.

01:10:58Guest:You know, but aren't there people that like being funny, but they don't have to do the stand-up thing like Albert Brooks?

01:11:05Guest:Can I be that guy but without the success?

01:11:07Guest:Yeah, you can.

01:11:08Guest:You might be already.

01:11:09Guest:Yeah.

01:11:10Guest:I mean, you know what my dream was, and maybe I could be it.

01:11:13Guest:Before he became nuts, Andy Dick, when he was on news radio, he's got a job.

01:11:19Marc:Yeah.

01:11:19Guest:Then he tells a story on a panel.

01:11:22Guest:That's what I'd like to be.

01:11:23Guest:But it didn't happen.

01:11:24Guest:I just played delivery guys and clerks.

01:11:26Guest:But where you get to express yourself, but not in a stand-up venue.

01:11:29Guest:Sure.

01:11:30Marc:Like now.

01:11:31Marc:Yeah, exactly.

01:11:32Marc:And you're very good at it.

01:11:33Guest:Thank you so much.

01:11:34Guest:And you're great.

01:11:34Guest:I've been listening to your podcast.

01:11:37Guest:Tell me if I made this mistake.

01:11:39Guest:Okay.

01:11:39Guest:And I know you want to wrap up.

01:11:41Guest:I got the look.

01:11:42Okay.

01:11:42Guest:No, I'm with you.

01:11:44Guest:Yeah.

01:11:44Guest:Okay.

01:11:46Guest:I didn't want to make the mistake because listening to you... Like when Colin Quinn had... What's it called?

01:11:51Guest:Tough Crowd?

01:11:51Guest:Yeah.

01:11:52Guest:I saw a lot of comics I knew.

01:11:54Guest:They were very nice guys.

01:11:56Guest:And they'd go on it and they thought they had to be more Nick DiPaolo-ish.

01:11:58Guest:Like, the blacks!

01:12:00Guest:Screw them, man!

01:12:00Guest:Blacks have all the good stuff.

01:12:02Guest:Yeah.

01:12:02Guest:And I know this sweet guy.

01:12:03Guest:I won't say his name.

01:12:04Guest:And they were trying to...

01:12:07Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:12:08Guest:To be more on the show and be part of it.

01:12:11Guest:So I hope you have to listen to things.

01:12:13Guest:I wasn't like, fuck you, and yeah, I masturbated.

01:12:16Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:12:17Marc:I heard nothing about masturbation or hating blacks.

01:12:20Marc:No, that's Colin's show.

01:12:21Marc:I know, but unless you had a different conversation in your head than what happened just now.

01:12:25Guest:Right.

01:12:25Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:12:25Guest:No, I felt the pressure before coming here that you had to, you know, be...

01:12:30Guest:you know, gritty and saying everyone you hate.

01:12:34Marc:No.

01:12:35Guest:Except for nerdist.

01:12:36Guest:Well, he's a nice guy, but you get it.

01:12:41Guest:You get what I'm saying.

01:12:42Marc:Don't hijack nerd.

01:12:43Marc:No, I have the exact same feelings you do about that.

01:12:47Guest:Cool stuff is what this is.

01:12:49Guest:Because I'm watching robots and sci-fi.

01:12:53Marc:What does a real nerd watch?

01:12:54Marc:What does Fred Stolwell watch?

01:12:55Guest:Also, I didn't even like Freaks and Geeks.

01:12:57Marc:Yeah.

01:12:58Guest:Because they had camaraderie.

01:12:59Guest:They had buddies.

01:13:01Guest:Yeah.

01:13:01Guest:And they were smart.

01:13:02Guest:All right, we're beat up, but we're going to grow up to be rich scientists.

01:13:06Guest:Yeah.

01:13:07Guest:I never had the reassurance that I was an outcast, but at least I'll show them and be rich.

01:13:12Guest:Right.

01:13:13Guest:I showed them that I could drink all the lattes I want.

01:13:16Guest:Yes.

01:13:16Guest:You know, but you know what I mean.

01:13:18Guest:I like freaks and geeks, but I'm saying I don't even, at least they had each other.

01:13:23Marc:Well, there's something different.

01:13:25Marc:Like, I think that the way you're using nerd, like I think nerd in the sense now, it implies.

01:13:30Marc:It's cool.

01:13:30Marc:Well, no, but it implies an almost.

01:13:32Marc:Oh, in pop culture.

01:13:33Marc:An obsessive, you know, sort of fascination with specific things.

01:13:37Marc:Like if someone's a chess nerd or a Dungeons and Dragons nerd, that that is really the heart of it.

01:13:42Guest:There's no stigma or shame in the word now.

01:13:43Guest:It's like, cool.

01:13:45Guest:Hey, I'm just a nerd, man.

01:13:46Marc:I'm watching my Scrabble.

01:13:47Marc:But I think you and I were awkward.

01:13:49Marc:We were socially awkward.

01:13:51Marc:And that, you know, we might have been geeky, but, you know, I don't know.

01:13:54Marc:It doesn't sound like you were a nerd.

01:13:56Marc:I definitely wasn't.

01:13:56Guest:No, I guess you're right.

01:13:57Guest:A nerd means like a rain man, kind of.

01:13:59Marc:You have an obsessive thing with something.

01:14:01Marc:You're right.

01:14:02Guest:And it's not like revenge of the nerds.

01:14:04Guest:I think I was just, I was related to black people.

01:14:07Guest:I was obsessed with obscure black character actors, invisible people.

01:14:11Guest:Really?

01:14:11Guest:Yes.

01:14:12Guest:Yes.

01:14:12Guest:Like Moses Gunn, Thalmus Rasalusala, Harper Hill.

01:14:16Guest:No, not Harper Hill.

01:14:17Guest:It was another hill.

01:14:18Guest:Lou Gossett, before he's famous, Teddy Wilson.

01:14:21Guest:Because that's why I wanted to be a character actor, like these invisible people and rooted for black people.

01:14:27Guest:Because you identified with the invisibility, yes.

01:14:32Guest:Now it became rap in your face, Tracy Morgan, but I like the quiet.

01:14:41Guest:My mother has that where she can't go into a restaurant if there's a black busboy.

01:14:45Guest:She feels sorry for him or he's a security guard.

01:14:48Guest:So I have a little bit of that.

01:14:50Guest:I feel I want to save everyone and give security guards good jobs.

01:14:55Marc:Well, I think that's it.

01:14:56Marc:Maybe you should make that my goal.

01:14:59Marc:Thanks for coming, Fred.

01:15:00Guest:Hey, thank you, and I hope I wasn't doing the tough crowd stuff.

01:15:05Guest:You know, overdoing.

01:15:06Guest:You were great.

01:15:07Guest:It was so much fun.

01:15:08Guest:Okay.

01:15:10Guest:So I cleaned my apartment.

01:15:11Guest:I got it already.

01:15:12Guest:I was excited because the guy was coming over to do a podcast interview, you know, and so then he comes over and he says, wait a minute.

01:15:22Guest:This is an apartment, not a house.

01:15:25Guest:I go, yeah.

01:15:26Guest:Because I thought you were more successful.

01:15:28Guest:I go, what do you mean?

01:15:30Guest:He goes, we've been around forever.

01:15:32Guest:You're an older guy.

01:15:33Guest:You just have an apartment.

01:15:35Guest:What do you mean?

01:15:35Guest:He goes, you know, I have a lot of, I only have a certain amount of spots for the podcast.

01:15:41Guest:And I should not just give it out.

01:15:43Guest:You know, I'm gonna have Dave Foley, Jeff Garland, Andy Dick, people like that.

01:15:49Guest:So I leave a certain allotted spot.

01:15:52Guest:And there's just an echelon.

01:15:54Guest:I said, because I live in an apartment, not a house.

01:15:57Guest:He goes, well, I should maybe look at your credits.

01:16:01Guest:I bought him.

01:16:03Guest:It's just an echelon.

01:16:05Guest:I said, because I live in an apartment, not a house.

01:16:08Guest:He goes.

01:16:09Guest:Well, yeah, I should maybe look at your credits.

01:16:12Guest:So I cleaned my apartment.

01:16:14Guest:I got it all ready.

01:16:15Guest:I was excited because the guy was coming over to do a podcast interview, you know, and so then he comes over and he says, wait a minute, this is an apartment, not a house.

01:16:27Guest:I go, yeah, because I thought you were more successful.

01:16:31Guest:I go, what do you mean?

01:16:32Guest:He goes, we've been around forever.

01:16:34Guest:You're an older guy, just have an apartment.

01:16:37Guest:What do you mean?

01:16:38Guest:He goes, you know, I have a lot of, I only have a certain amount of spots for the podcast, and I should not just give it out.

01:16:46Guest:You know, I'm going to have Dave Foley, Jeff Garland, and dick people like that, so I only have a certain amount of kind of

01:16:55Guest:Yeah, we need more bigger people.

01:17:00Guest:I made a mistake.

01:17:04Guest:So I cleaned my apartment.

01:17:06Guest:I got it all ready.

01:17:07Guest:I was excited because the guy was coming over to do a podcast interview, you know, and so then he comes over and he says, wait a minute, this is an apartment, not a house.

01:17:19Guest:I go, yeah, because I thought you were more successful.

01:17:23Guest:I go, what do you mean?

01:17:24Guest:He goes, you've been around forever.

01:17:31Yeah.

01:17:32Marc:Well, that's our show.

01:17:33Marc:That was Fred's song.

01:17:35Marc:Hey, look.

01:17:36Marc:Go to the site.

01:17:37Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.

01:17:39Marc:Check my calendar if you didn't get the dates at the beginning of the show.

01:17:42Marc:Kick in a few shekels.

01:17:43Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.

01:17:45Marc:Indulge in the apps.

01:17:47Marc:Or if you don't want to do that, buy some of the premium episodes.

01:17:50Marc:It all helps out.

01:17:52Marc:We're all making a living, kind of.

01:17:53Marc:I'm trying.

01:17:54Marc:I'm doing okay.

01:17:56Marc:I'll see you in Atlanta tonight.

01:17:58Marc:Boom, he's not in here, so there's no...

01:18:00Marc:Raspy meowing.

01:18:02Marc:Maybe I'll do one.

01:18:03Marc:I'll do one for you.

01:18:05Guest:Meow.

01:18:09Meow.

01:18:23you