Episode 245 - Todd Glass
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:WTF?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?
Marc:I am Mark Barron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I'm happy to be back.
Marc:I had a good time in Salt Lake City, but this week I'm in Atlanta, Georgia at the Laughing Skull.
Marc:This Thursday, what day is that?
Marc:16th, 17th, 18th, 19th through 22nd.
Marc:I think there's still some tickets left if you're in the Atlanta region.
Marc:Come down for that.
Marc:Of course, I'll be at the Magner's Comedy Festival doing a live stand-up show and a live WTF on January 27th in Boston at the Wilbur Theater.
Marc:And you can check any of my upcoming dates at WTFPod.com.
Marc:Just look up the calendar and it's all there.
Marc:I'll be at Sketch Fest in San Francisco.
Marc:I'm going to be in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Marc:Go to WTFPod and check out the calendar section.
Marc:The music on the show today is done by a musician named Jill Gawertz, who wrote a song years ago called What the Fuck, so it's pretty appropriate for our show.
Marc:Her stage name is Just Jill, and you can check her out at myspace.com slash thejustjills.
Marc:Had some good shows this last weekend in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Marc:I was there at the center of it in the country's only functional theocracy,
Marc:Great audiences.
Marc:We sold out four shows in Salt Lake City.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you, I had a wonderful time there in Mormon land.
Marc:Met a lot of nice people, but still felt weird in Salt Lake City.
Marc:Great city, still felt weird.
Marc:I think I might have projected a lot of that.
Marc:I mean, I shouldn't have felt weird flying in, but I did.
Marc:As soon as we started to descend into Salt Lake City, I'm like, oh, no, it's starting.
Marc:The weirdness.
Marc:But it is a little odd.
Marc:And I went out of my way to say to them, I said, look, if you would just explain it to us, you have a big missionary operation.
Marc:Perhaps if you just maybe made part of your mission, not so much to sell the religion, but maybe just to go door to door and explain to us people that don't understand Mormonism a little about your faith, as opposed to putting all your energy into recruiting Latinos, maybe we'd all know better.
Marc:I swear to you, I live in a Latino neighborhood and I get at least two, three, four, maybe four or five visits a year from Mormon missionaries.
Marc:They knock on the door and I go, who is it?
Marc:And they go, some missionaries.
Marc:And I say, I'm not Mexican.
Marc:And they say, sorry.
Marc:And they move on.
Marc:I wish I was kidding.
Marc:I am kidding, obviously.
Marc:But you get the idea.
Marc:It's a recruitment based mission.
Marc:I don't have to over explain myself.
Marc:But another thing I learned when I was in Salt Lake City was that the consumption of pornography, the consumption of painkillers is some of the highest in terms of percentage in the country.
Marc:which means many of these good Mormons are up to no good.
Marc:Who's the judge?
Marc:But you know what I'm saying.
Marc:I'm not no moral barometer of what's right or what's wrong.
Marc:For the most part, I can only know for myself and what the law has to say about things.
Marc:But that just tells me that not unlike any sort of religion or any sort of system that anyone puts in place for themselves,
Marc:As they say in recovery, if I can, you're only as sick as your secrets.
Marc:Everybody's got secrets.
Marc:Look, I am pretty wide open on this show, but there are some things I keep to myself.
Marc:Obviously, I have to keep a few things to myself.
Marc:You can't know everything about me.
Marc:I got a few nooks and crannies in the cranium that have not been explored and exploited by me for you.
Marc:I have to keep a few things in my secret jewel box of memories and desires, right?
Marc:And that's my right.
Marc:That's my privilege.
Marc:And now I'm sure some of you are curious, like, what are you talking about?
Marc:But I'm just saying that you kind of calibrate your life and behavior based on your fear.
Marc:That's basically it.
Marc:And what it said to me, and I've been a guy who's lived a lie before.
Marc:I was married.
Marc:I was not...
Marc:You know, that good a husband the first time around.
Marc:And the one thing I do know, by the way, our guest is Todd Glass today.
Marc:And we'll get to Todd in just a second as soon as I finish this thought.
Marc:The one thing I do know is that if you spend your life managing a secret or managing a fear...
Marc:That your entire being, your entire sense of self is going to twist around that.
Marc:That you're not being, even if it's just hiding something.
Marc:Or like for years I was petrified to go on stage and I had to hide that.
Marc:And I don't think that's unusual.
Marc:I mean, stage fright is one thing, but to literally be afraid of audiences and have that fear and to be up in front of audiences all the time, it was my way of confronting fear.
Marc:But because of that, for a good part of my career, I was an angry, defiant, button pushing fuck on stage.
Marc:And it wasn't that wasn't based on principle that was based on my own fear.
Marc:And I've had secrets before.
Marc:I've been in relationships where I haven't been honest, where I've slept around.
Marc:And then you spend your entire life trying to sort of protect that lie, that infidelity.
Marc:And you build upon that more lies.
Marc:And your entire life becomes a prison of lies.
Marc:And eventually it comes toppling down because you no longer have any freedom in an existence like that.
Marc:I know this may not be funny, but it is what it is.
Marc:And I think about this with religion.
Marc:I think about this with people that don't pursue what they want to pursue out of fear.
Marc:I talk about this with people that have secrets they have to protect.
Marc:Secrets, lies, fears will just mutate yourself, will mutate your sense of self.
Marc:And this is a very exciting episode of this show.
Marc:And without going too much into it, I love Todd Glass.
Marc:He is really the consummate comedian, one of the funniest people I know.
Marc:Every time I'm with Todd, I know I'm going to laugh.
Marc:He's going to laugh very quick.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Love him.
Marc:I've loved him for years.
Marc:And, you know, not too long ago, I got a call from Todd a few months ago.
Marc:He's like, look, I got to talk about something and I want to do it on your show.
Marc:And I said, of course, you know, what is it?
Marc:And he goes, it's personal.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, we'll talk about it.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:So we went back and forth for, you know, literally a couple months.
Marc:And we finally got to have this conversation that was important to him.
Marc:And he wanted to talk about it with me and he wanted to make it public to you.
Marc:And that's what we're going to do here today.
Marc:And to preface the show, I received a phone message from Todd, and I wanted to play it here.
Marc:This is two days ago.
Marc:He left me a message.
Marc:And this is not to blow smoke up my own ass about my show, but it's to just capture Todd's tone because the conversation we had was very amplified.
Marc:It was very intense.
Marc:It was manic because the subject required that.
Marc:But I wanted to preface the show with this phone message from Todd and then just ease into the interview.
Guest:Hey, Mark.
Guest:It's Todd, and I wanted to thank you.
Guest:I think it's tomorrow's Sunday, so I feel like I'm laying here and I can't really sleep because I'm thinking about Monday.
Guest:And I know it's all going to be good.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:But I was just thinking that I wanted to thank you because, you know,
Guest:This is, you know, it's probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life.
Guest:And, you know, when I was there, it was pretty easy to do it.
Guest:And I think it had a lot to do with you, you had the right amount of compassion and then our jokes that we were doing really helped.
Guest:I really appreciate it.
Guest:Um, very much.
Guest:I don't want to be overly campy, but, you know, I would have never imagined, I would have never even fathomed that it would have been you over the years that would have had me do this.
Guest:And I really appreciate it.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:After I send this, I'll probably think I shouldn't have because it sounds maybe a little cheesy, but, um,
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And that's that.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I think this is good.
Guest:I'll just send it.
Guest:I'm not nervous, but I do have, you know, a little anxiety.
Guest:But I guess that's all good.
Guest:And all right.
Bye.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:What?
Marc:Here, there.
Marc:Is it too messy in here?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I talked about this.
Guest:The only thing I always say, it seems like Hemingway would write stuff.
Marc:I just went to Hemingway's house.
Marc:Really?
Marc:In Key West.
Marc:Well, I have Todd Glass in my garage, and we've been exchanging phone calls, and he wanted to talk about something, and he decided that this was the place to do it, and I appreciate that.
Marc:I don't know if I'd call it a delicate matter, but I thought the phone calls were fun, Todd.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:How long do we make people?
Guest:It's not a big deal, but I was nervous.
Marc:You had a particular, you were ready to tell the world something and I think we should just do it and work back from there.
Guest:That's exactly what I was just thinking as you said it because then it makes what we're working towards make sense.
Marc:Yeah, and there's no reason to drag it all out.
Marc:Yeah, but it's interesting.
Marc:The number of phone calls I got and the back and forth we got around doing this thing, and then it's sort of like, maybe we're not going to do it.
Marc:I don't know if I'm ready to do it.
Marc:I've got to talk to some people.
Marc:I have to make some notes.
Marc:And here we are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's up, Todd?
Guest:How you doing?
Guest:No, I just wanted to come on and promote my podcast.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:I had no idea that's what we were doing here.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:What did you think?
Marc:Oh, I thought you were gay.
Marc:Oh, are you shitting me?
Marc:Yeah, is that weird?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Did you really think that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because we had these phone calls.
Guest:Let's cut the shit here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And again, I don't... Look, let me just say this.
Guest:Do you want to say it, though?
Guest:I think we should say it.
Guest:I have a very hard time saying that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because I feel like... And don't get this wrong.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I don't want anybody to be ashamed of who they are, especially when you think younger people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always hate using that term, and that's part of why I've always been sympathetic to people or empathetic or whatever to people that don't like.
Guest:Like, oh, they don't want to be called this anymore.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it's always because I'm not honest about who I was.
Guest:It was hard for me to show why I had that empathy.
Guest:But I hate that word.
Guest:So what do you say?
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:I don't like the other word, homosexual.
Guest:That sounds like, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But gay.
Guest:I always feel like, fuck that.
Guest:I'm not gay.
Guest:What the fuck do I got to tell people I'm gay for?
Guest:I'm not fucking gay.
Guest:I'm fucking Todd Glass.
Guest:You know, it's like, I'm not like, you know what I mean?
Guest:By flaming, you know, like I'm, I got to go up to people, tell them I'm gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a fucking lie, but it's not, you know?
Guest:So God fucking damn it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:i said it yeah you said you were gay and let me uh this is but not gay we're not yeah yeah i think i think we should be clear that you you are you are coming out yes okay and and and here's the the i wrote down nothing on this piece of paper except one thing and then i thought after this just let it take its course well i mean i mean this is i can't imagine what it must be like because i've known you for probably 20 years 25 years uh you're a beloved comic
Marc:And in the community and everybody knows you.
Marc:But I got to be honest, I never even thought about that.
Guest:Well, here's the reason.
Guest:And once I get this out of the way, and then I'll have an honest, you know, like I'll go back and forth.
Marc:You got things you want me to say.
Guest:There's a little agenda.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:It's literally two minutes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:No, we have a time.
Guest:Two things.
Guest:One...
Guest:why you want your peers to sort of respect you.
Guest:In other words, in my head, it's just the way I think they go, yeah, Todd did it on the Marc Maron show.
Guest:One thing, then I'll go too, then we go.
Guest:One is, I know there's a shitload of people.
Guest:As a comic, I don't like to be delusional.
Guest:So if anybody went, oh, Todd went on the Marc Maron show to say he was, you know, we knew it.
Guest:I know that there are people that were pretty fucking positive I was.
Guest:They've been my friends for 20 years.
Guest:I'm not with women.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then there were other people maybe not as sure.
Guest:Some people don't give a shit.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's not like I'm saying it in some way like, I got something.
Guest:I did not deliver it.
Guest:If somebody out there tomorrow, I don't know why it bothers me, went, Todd said on The Modern Marriage Show, like we didn't know.
Guest:Yeah, I fucking know that.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:But I've not been honest about it.
Guest:So even if you know... Yeah.
Guest:I can't reference it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I can't say it.
Guest:I can't, you know, on stage maybe reference it.
Guest:It's not going to become my act.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now I'm just saying what a lot of people already knew.
Guest:Now I'm being honest about.
Guest:And there's a lot of people that don't fucking know.
Guest:There's a lot of people, you know, maybe if it's, you know, people that listen to your show that have been to my show, people that listen to my podcast, people that have been to my show, people on the, you know, don't know.
Guest:So that's the one thing about, yeah, I know it.
Guest:It's not like I'm going, I got something for you.
Guest:No one knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the second thing is, why this way?
Guest:Why not just start telling people on a daily basis?
Guest:Bulk email, maybe.
Guest:Start passing it out.
Guest:Start just being a little more honest.
Guest:I have my circle of friends that know.
Guest:My parents know.
Guest:They're cool with it.
Guest:I'm very lucky.
Guest:How long have they known?
Guest:They've known about 15 years.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, they knew before that, but I was honest with them.
Marc:They knew before you, probably.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Guest:Did they?
Guest:They weren't positive, but had some inclination.
Guest:Nothing to do with the way I was more when starting to date.
Guest:I wasn't really.
Guest:So I just thought, why not just start telling people one-on-one?
Guest:You start opening it up.
Guest:You start not lying.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:It's really hard to do that because you've...
Guest:It's hard to do that.
Guest:And also the other reason that I wanted to do it honestly and in this forum is because and this is the reason that motivated me to do it was just because and again, I know it sounds so maybe is cliche the word or but it's so much from my fucking soul.
Guest:The truth.
Guest:Yeah, I cannot listen to stories about kids killing themselves any longer and not seal.
Guest:When are you going to have a little blood on your shirt for not?
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Just being honest about who you are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you know, they're just... You hear it in the news.
Guest:And I don't mention any names because, you know, there's the people that... The kids that did it that became in the news.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But any fucking human being anywhere that didn't make it into the paper.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I can't do this any longer.
Guest:But I thought that a year ago.
Guest:I got to do it.
Guest:And I want to...
Guest:And if I do it in a public forum as opposed to just doing it privately, I can't then maybe do something to help kids.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like whether it's a campaign I want to start or whether it's being honest on stage.
Guest:So that's why I thought I don't want to just do it privately if I'm going to do it.
Guest:And in a weird way, and this is the last thing.
Guest:No, it's okay.
Guest:This makes it, again, if it wasn't for the thing I just mentioned, this thing I would get over.
Guest:The thing about wanting to help kids.
Guest:This is getting it all out of the way.
Guest:Again, not worth it just for this reason I'm about to say.
Guest:But now everybody knows.
Guest:I thought about everybody, even the people on my podcast.
Guest:It's not a big deal.
Guest:But last night I was going to tell them.
Guest:I thought, you know, this is not a big deal.
Guest:But I should say to them, hey, by the way, I'm doing the Marc Maron show.
Guest:And, you know, you guys are my friends.
Guest:We haven't really talked about it.
Guest:I'll make a big deal about it.
Guest:But here's what it is.
Guest:Never got to it.
Marc:Yeah, but you have a hard time saying it at all.
Marc:I mean, you can't, I don't know how you would frame it if you can't even, we're here, we're doing it for the, you know, we're doing it and you can't really frame it.
Marc:You're like, I'm, you know, I'm just, it is hard.
Guest:You know, you hear me even bypassing the word.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I don't want that to mean I'm bypassing it in shame because again, if I'm going to help kids, how am I helping them?
Guest:If I'm going, I'm a, what am I like, Fonzie now?
Guest:I'm not going to be able to say the word.
Guest:He couldn't say he was sorry.
Guest:I'm going to be like,
Guest:I'm a guh, guh, guh, guh, guh, guh, you know.
Guest:But you don't have any shame about it.
Guest:No.
Guest:Luckily, with all the hiding that I did, my parents never raised us to be not prejudiced or not homophobic.
Guest:They just lived that life.
Guest:And I don't even know if my mom, my dad's not alive anymore, but I don't even know if my mom knows that.
Guest:I really appreciate that.
Guest:Like, I just watched them.
Guest:Not only they had black friends, they had white friends, they had gay friends, they had rich friends.
Guest:Some people, you forget about that, don't even have friends outside of their social class.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:My parents did.
Guest:They had people, they fucking liked them.
Guest:That's who we knew growing up.
Guest:And so it was just I knew internally always that I was OK, but outwardly with them, with them and with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my and my my being was OK.
Guest:I don't I am healthy.
Guest:I'm this is normal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I remember, you know, hearing people over the years just say, hey, in the history, we've gotten a lot of fucking things wrong.
Guest:This is just one more of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like with with whatever it is in the past, whether it's women or whether it's black or whether it's whatever it is.
Guest:And it ends up in hindsight.
Guest:We go, yeah.
Marc:And this is one more fucking thing in terms of, you know, allowing people to be comfortable publicly and married and whatnot.
Guest:Whatever they fucking want to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:So I thought in a way this was easier because, you know, I've had the weirdest thoughts, Mark, like coming on the show.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:I wake up in the middle of the night and I go, oh, I'm going to go back to Philadelphia.
Guest:I'm going to do the Preston and Steve show.
Guest:I'm going to go to PJ Ryan's.
Guest:I'm going to do that show there.
Guest:Maybe I'll wait.
Guest:Let me wait till after that.
Guest:The out of the closet tour?
Guest:Yeah, let me do one more sweep through and make my big last lie.
Guest:And I've hold on to this lie.
Marc:Oh, you mean you wanted to go before you were like, okay, I'm going to do this on Marin's show, but I've got to go not be gay for another month.
Guest:Yeah, let me go there one more time.
Guest:Let me go back to Philly and lead my normal...
Marc:normal but it's not normal it's not normal it's something you got used to because you were protecting this thing for a specific reason so you know there must be some fear if there's not shame obviously you have a tremendous amount of fear that was right was guiding you was that like what were those fears good good question thank you uh i know that's an overused term uh you're good mark thanks buddy um yes no internally i always felt like i was okay and uh but you know i i
Guest:As much as I told myself, come in here, get over it.
Guest:It's not a big deal.
Guest:It's truthful.
Guest:That is true.
Guest:I needed to tell myself that.
Guest:Fucking stop it.
Guest:But also, I can spend a lot of time saying why it's totally.
Guest:This didn't happen overnight.
Guest:This happened 25 years ago when I started to not be honest to who I was.
Marc:I talked to you two days ago and you would run into people that have known you for years.
Guest:I told you that.
Guest:I kept Mark.
Guest:They couldn't have been cooler.
Guest:My friends from like seventh grade.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was meeting their wives.
Guest:And you know, people do this a lot lately.
Guest:People are pretty cool.
Guest:They go, so what's your life?
Guest:You got a girlfriend.
Guest:You got a boyfriend.
Guest:You got this.
Guest:You got that.
Guest:Like the open forum for me to go, no, you guys have known me a while.
Guest:I go, yeah, I'm still with the same girl.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I get in the car.
Guest:I go, what the fuck am I doing?
Guest:I'm holding on to this to the bitter end.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And by the way, I probably still will in certain situations.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'm being honest here and in a community that will know.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:I don't think tomorrow if I was somewhere, you know, whenever you need a fake scenario, I can never come up with it.
Guest:But you're somewhere and someone goes, who is this for?
Guest:I'm not going to be able to be a department store and go, oh, it's for my, you know.
Guest:My roommate.
Guest:My roommate.
Guest:is that what you would say no i won't say that okay because that's embarrassing i will not be that guy you know what i mean you know this guy like these guys are 70 and my roommate all right it's my accountant accountant really he lives with you he lives with you i would be very close
Guest:So there's probably going to be situations where I still am not comfortable.
Guest:That's going to be a slow process.
Guest:But yeah, this happened years ago.
Guest:One time I told Louis C.K.
Guest:about six months ago, we were flying somewhere and he just had some very...
Guest:Couldn't believe how clear thoughts he had about the situation, how open-minded he was.
Guest:And I went, with him, I got comfortable.
Guest:I said, Todd, you're sitting here.
Guest:Have a goddamn real conversation.
Guest:And I told him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said that whole thing.
Guest:I know there's people out there that they're not homophobic at all.
Guest:They're very open-minded and should be commended for that.
Guest:But because of that are a little, and hey, it's a good place to be.
Guest:I'm not criticizing too much.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But they're a little insensitive to why you got like this.
Guest:Maybe behind their back, they would go, I love Todd, but what's he fucking, you know, what I mean?
Guest:You got to look at the big picture.
Guest:You mean how this happened?
Marc:How you got gay?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:How I started hiding it.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Because I would hear things people would say.
Marc:But to me, it's completely understandable.
Marc:It is to you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm a relatively frightened guy.
Marc:And we're comics.
Marc:And we're the type of people we are.
Marc:We're concerned with how people see us, how we're perceived, what people think about us.
Marc:And sometimes when that is in the foreground, people can't see past that.
Marc:Even if they're friends or whatever.
Marc:I imagine the fear is like, well, now you're just going to be gay to some people.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That was my fear.
Guest:Sometimes we've gone places and there's a couple known as, oh, the gay couple.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I went, ugh, I don't fucking want that.
Guest:Yeah, but when I told somebody who did I just tell I've been telling a few people getting ready to come on the show And by the way, I do I'm trying to be very clear so people out there even know I know I get to talk about this again Yeah, I do have a circle of friends that know I do have a healthy circle, right?
Marc:You know, but you know support they call that in the business.
Guest:Yeah But I thought this is what helped me sort of be honest is that
Guest:Well, how are they perceiving me now?
Guest:And I thought once I told somebody about myself, who did I just tell?
Guest:Whatever it was, they went, oh.
Guest:The person's like, what's up with Todd?
Marc:My friend Will.
Guest:I told my friend Will, and he goes, oh, dude.
Guest:He goes, I'm just so glad you're healthy and happy.
Guest:I thought you were like, maybe you were like asexual because you didn't want to be who you were.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you just, he goes, I felt like, oh, is he going to like.
Guest:And I go, oh, my God.
Guest:I'd rather people perceive me as healthy.
Guest:Than this freak that can't live his life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I'm thinking to myself.
Guest:That's how people are gonna perceive you So what if you're somewhere and somebody might go because they can't think of your name and they remember but but get over it Right, but I didn't want it to be my being and more than that I just got comfortable living this life that I was living like it was like I'm tied glass I'm like, you know like with my friends and when you're younger Hey, but but this is something I didn't realize till today.
Guest:Yeah, I remember
Guest:Now, look, it's not 1950 when I grew up.
Guest:You think, come on, Todd.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:My age?
Guest:40 what?
Guest:47.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I'm 48.
Guest:And I remember when I was afraid if people knew.
Guest:And this is weird that I remember this because it shows we have come a long way.
Guest:But also what I'm about to say, you think I'd be referencing the 50s, but I'm not.
Guest:I'm referencing maybe the 90s, 89, 90.
Guest:That if I would tell somebody that they'd be afraid to drink out of my cup because of the AIDS thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I thought, should I understand that?
Guest:Would I, if I knew someone had AIDS, would I drink out of their cup back then?
Guest:And I wasn't educated either.
Guest:Just because I'm gay doesn't mean, there you go.
Guest:It's a start.
Guest:I said it.
Guest:So that was a fear.
Guest:And would my guy friends be afraid?
Guest:You know, you hug each other.
Guest:Again, this is a 21-year-old.
Guest:Are they going to be afraid to go, hey, what's up, buddy?
Marc:Oh, that's enough.
Marc:That's enough.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I had great experiences every time that happened with my circle of friends.
Guest:Not only did it, you know, they were awesome.
Guest:It didn't change anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Back then, here was my fear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember exactly what I would say when I was, you know, because early in my life, I made pacts.
Guest:I had a friend early on that knew.
Guest:There was one point in my life where I knew one person like me, and we made a pact we would never tell anybody.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was probably 21.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I made a pact to someone.
Guest:I would never tell anybody.
Guest:I would never.
Guest:And then he told some people and I didn't want to be his friend anymore.
Marc:You wanted to say defriended him, but that didn't exist then.
Marc:You actively stopped talking to him.
Guest:I stopped because I got uncomfortable and nervous.
Guest:It was a horrible thing to do.
Marc:That you would be drawn into it?
Guest:Yeah, like he was too gay.
Guest:He was turning really gay.
Guest:Obviously, I want to be very clear with that horrible thing to do, but I was nervous and scared myself.
Guest:So that's why I did a horrible thing out of fear.
Marc:It's part of that.
Marc:Like, well, that's interesting to me that there is this differentiation between, you know, living a an out gay lifestyle as culture understands it.
Marc:You know, as someone in straight who's straight, you know, I know if I go to San Francisco and I go down the Castro that there that's you know, there's there's gay everywhere and it's a specific lifestyle.
Marc:Did you have an aversion to being attached to that?
Marc:Do you know what I'm saying?
Marc:I do.
Marc:I do.
Marc:I mean, because it seems to me that some of that's what you were fighting with was being like, because in light of what you're saying, there's a lot of gay people that resent people that stay in the closet.
Marc:They think that they're part of the enemy, that they're actually working against what gay people have been working for.
Guest:I obviously, believe me, by no means would I decide myself to be honest who I was today and then go down with that agenda.
Guest:I think that everybody should do it when they're ready.
Guest:I totally believe in respecting people.
Guest:The only thing you could do if you're wondering, because people did this, do we ask?
Guest:I think you're better off.
Guest:The people that I was comfortable telling were people that said very open-minded things.
Guest:Like, I remember once I was talking to my friend Daniel Kino, because, you know, we didn't know each other.
Guest:I'd known people, you know, it took me forever to tell my best friend Jimmy Dore.
Guest:And, you know, and Jimmy doesn't have a homophobic bone in his body.
Guest:But there was something about, like, Daniel was saying some, somebody was making fun of, saying some homophobic things about, you know, a gay person.
Guest:And Daniel was like, that's totally fucking bullshit.
Guest:Just, like, no bullshit at all.
Guest:And I was like, geez, like, he's really comfortable.
Guest:Did those jokes hurt you?
Guest:Let me tell you something.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:Also, partly why I want to be honest who I am, because it doesn't mean I'm going to go and change my act tomorrow.
Guest:My act is what it is.
Guest:But I haven't been able to be honest with why things affect me emotionally.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:The biggest thing that I can never be honest about.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I tried to talk about this under the guidelines of a straight comic that's open.
Guest:And there's a lot of straight people that are incredibly open.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not black.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I can fucking tell you if someone I don't, you know, you know, I mean, I don't if someone said, oh, you think black people should.
Guest:I can still really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fucking black people should whatever they fucking want.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I hope I would have been that white person in the 50s.
Guest:So I was trying to be open-minded under the guidelines of a straight person.
Guest:And what I was talking about, being honest, when people use that word gay as an adjective, and I remember it's come up, and there's a lot of people, I've talked about this on my podcast, that have this attitude, and I could never go, listen, I don't want to be a militant gay person, but I can tell you what it does to a 12-year-old.
Guest:But I couldn't.
Guest:I had to do it under the guidelines of a straight person, which was good, but not as good.
Guest:That word, and a lot of people have this attitude, hey, I'm a smart guy, and I'm into, no, I don't want, but that, come on, now you're pushing it.
Guest:You're not.
Guest:That word, you want to keep using that word.
Guest:If you've used that word, here's what I say, and again, I don't want to come off like, it's like my first moment of honesty here, so I might have a little bit of anger or frustration.
Guest:Yeah, sure, yeah.
Guest:If you want to use that word, if you use that word and without any harm, you didn't do anything wrong.
Guest:But once someone makes you privy to what it does, if you still want to use it, that's the problem.
Guest:Not that you used it in the past.
Guest:Oh, that movie's gay or that's gay or this is gay.
Guest:You did nothing wrong until someone tells you what it does when there's a 12 year old around or a 15 year old who's gay and it crushes their soul.
Guest:It crushes their soul that everything.
Guest:Oh, why is that movie?
Guest:What does gay mean?
Guest:It means bad.
Guest:It means stupid and they like gay people.
Guest:They're weird.
Guest:They're stupid.
Guest:That's that's so I'd say keep using it.
Guest:If you if you want to hold on to it that bad and you just you don't want to go.
Guest:Does that what it but now I can be honest.
Guest:It does when there's a young person around and they're hearing that word used in that way.
Guest:It's yeah.
Marc:Well, what about you?
Marc:What?
Marc:I mean, it would kill me.
Marc:It would kill me.
Marc:But like even I'm talking like last week, I'm talking today.
Marc:If somebody uses that in a derogative way, does it anger you?
Guest:Honestly, not me because I'm a full-grown adult that understands, but it angers me for what it does to kids.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I'm okay.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:And by kids, you mean anyone who realizes they may have those feelings all the way up till you 10 minutes ago.
Guest:Yeah, well, I mean, me being honest about it 10 minutes ago.
Marc:No, no, I mean, now that you're going to start living your life with an open acknowledgement of this, that's a much different disposition than having to hide it.
Marc:So what I'm saying that anybody who is either ashamed or hiding their sexuality because of fear that when that word comes out, it's like, ah, ah.
Guest:Yeah, it makes you want to go back in.
Guest:And the worst part is if somebody says that word and they're not homophobic or whatever, or if they are, well, then it makes sense.
Guest:But if you're not, it's not a big deal to just stop using that word.
Guest:It helps.
Guest:It's a good thing to do.
Guest:It makes sense, doesn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, the other reason that I've been more privy to hearing what people say.
Guest:And again, the things I hear aren't like horrible, hateful things like, oh, God damn, if there's a queer money.
Guest:But no, no, they're subtler, but they still do a lot of damage.
Guest:You know, like so because people didn't know about me, people spoke freely in front of me.
Marc:Right, and usually with comics, if I'm not mistaken, it's not necessarily that there's a hate there, but there is an inability to accept and there is a judgment.
Guest:There is, even if you don't, like I said, even if you didn't do it purposely, I think the person that doesn't do it purposely hears what I'm saying and goes, oh my God, I'm going to change.
Guest:But if you're sitting there going, oh, come on, that's just bullshit and I'm a smart guy.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:No one wants to be called anything.
Guest:I've said this before.
Guest:They go, everyone's so sensitive.
Guest:Yeah, you know who's sensitive?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You.
Guest:You.
Guest:Why are they sensitive?
Guest:Because if you're right and it's okay to use that word, gay, retarded, whatever negative word you want to use, if you're right, well, then I'm wrong.
Guest:But if I'm right, you have to change.
Guest:And that's why you're sensitive.
Guest:Because what you've been using as an adjective, you go, so they get sensitive.
Guest:But they don't want to say they're sensitive.
Guest:They want to go, everyone else is sensitive.
Guest:No, no, it's not everyone else.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Because they're holding on out of this weird pride that they think is like, you know, it's censorship.
Marc:No, it's not.
Marc:It's decency.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that commercial, I thought that Ren was really good, but was a shame as even some smart friends of mine.
Guest:The commercial was, do you remember there was a girl in line, she's a clerk at a store, she's on the phone, and the person waiting in line hears to go, they're talking.
Guest:Oh, two girls are talking.
Guest:Melissa and Emily, whatever.
Guest:And they go, I don't want to go to that party.
Guest:That's so gay.
Guest:And then the woman comes up to check, and she overheard them.
Guest:She goes, something about, oh, that's so Melissa and Emily, what you're doing.
Guest:And she goes, what's that mean?
Guest:They go, oh.
Guest:Oh, you don't know?
Guest:That just means dumb.
Guest:When they say, that's Melissa and Emily, that means dumb.
Guest:It was their way of saying, how would you like if your name stood for something?
Guest:But I know a lot of people that heard that and didn't go, I heard it and went, that's a good ad.
Guest:That really explains the way I felt as a young person.
Marc:Well, I think it's interesting, too, that in that...
Marc:I think that what you're saying about other people, you know, how they're going to react, it's really about their own issues.
Marc:So and I wonder, like, when when as you talk about this and as you come out, it's going to be interesting which one of these people that you know is actually uncomfortable.
Guest:Well, let me just interrupt for interject.
Guest:I don't think anybody in my life is going to have a problem with it.
Marc:Not a problem, but like there's going to be that moment like, oh, you know, okay.
Marc:I mean, it's natural for someone to say like, well, I didn't know that and now I know and it's great, but there's going to be some shift in perception on some people you know.
Marc:They might not be your close friends, but I think that's what I guess what I'm addressing is that people who use gay or defend that or claim to be higher minded, they're uncomfortable with something in themselves.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think they're comfortable to be corrected.
Guest:Yeah, to be corrected.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To be wrong.
Guest:Because you're wrong.
Guest:Tell me you're wrong.
Guest:It's not up for debate.
Guest:You're using someone who they are.
Guest:It's not complicated.
Guest:Can't we save complicated conversations for complicated issues?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:This is not.
Guest:Stop it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Not you.
Oh.
Guest:But, you know...
Guest:You know, obviously a million thoughts are flooding through my head right now.
Guest:And another one is, and part of me not being honest to be able to deal with this was, and this came from a very intelligent person and a comedian that I really admire.
Guest:Dave Chappelle said once, I don't know why gay people compare themselves to black people because, and by the way, I'm sure there's a lot of black people out there that are going, it's okay to compare.
Guest:It's close enough.
Guest:So I'm not thinking all black people.
Guest:I know there's black people going, stop doing that.
Marc:The civil rights issue, the framing it as a civil rights issue.
Guest:And Dave Chappelle said, you can hide you're gay, but you can't hide that you're black.
Guest:Now, yes, on that one scale, it tilts in our favor.
Guest:Well, you could say it tilts in our favor.
Guest:I don't know if hiding it is, but I get what they mean.
Guest:You can go to daily basis.
Guest:You can go through life and no one knows.
Guest:You can pass.
Guest:So what I'm trying to say here, first of all, empathy is not a competition.
Guest:And if it is, then I would say, oh, no, we've had it harder, which I'm not.
Guest:To me, anybody who's dealt with any type of judgment for no fair reason can sit down and have a healthy conversation and relate with each other.
Guest:Even if you go, oh, in that area, yours is harder.
Guest:Because if we're having a competition, which we shouldn't, I could say, and I never was able to say this because I wasn't honest who I was.
Guest:Yeah, but how about in the area that you're not afraid that your parents will hate you or your friends will hate you?
Guest:When the whole world hates you, you have mom and dad and your safe haven.
Marc:In a community.
Guest:In a community and your parents, your home, your bed that you sleep in, your head where you put your pillow on, which, by the way, I never experienced this, but I'm talking about kids that do.
Guest:How much would that blow?
Guest:You don't have the world and now your own fucking family has a problem with it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when he said that, if I was out, I would have said, oh, hold on.
Guest:Well, in this way, this is harder for us.
Guest:But at the end of the day, it's not a competition.
Guest:It's just two people saying, hey, we can talk about this.
Marc:We can relate.
Marc:And also, you deserve the rights.
Marc:I mean, the issue is really about human rights around who you are.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's the issue, period.
Guest:It's not a competition.
Guest:It's not a competition.
Guest:And most of my frustration really does... I was with...
Guest:in boston with gary goleman and i saw two kids and again this frustration came more from what i see i i really had a good life like i really have i've been so lucky that my parents were cool so that let me know even though like i said outwardly i hit it inwardly i always felt great fine about who i was yeah
Guest:But I saw two kids, they were obviously together.
Guest:They were dating.
Guest:And they were two, not that this matters, but for me it mattered because when I was younger, everybody deserves to be treated equally, whether you're flaming, whether you're gay and straight.
Guest:I'm not going to be one of those homophobic gay people.
Guest:But it is true when you're younger and you're gay and you're like, and you see everybody, you go, isn't anybody, is that what I'm going to be?
Guest:And you get nervous.
Guest:And so I see these two kids and I point that out because they're like,
Guest:Two straight acting regular guys and they're obvious.
Guest:And I thought, I looked at them and I went, I never thought this and I'm not boo-hooing me.
Guest:I went, I never got to fucking do that.
Guest:Because some fuck decided that what I was was wrong.
Guest:And they were wrong.
Guest:And they were wrong.
Guest:There's no doubt about it.
Marc:They were wrong.
Marc:But let's track that though.
Marc:I mean, you're looking at, this is your younger Todd Glass and you were honoring this idea that it was wrong.
Marc:Although you felt comfortable with it.
Guest:By the way, that, I felt comfortable, but still at 20, not as comfortable as now.
Guest:But you know what I mean?
Guest:But anyway, where I was at that age, I was comfortable.
Guest:But majorly hiding it and trying to change it.
Guest:I mean, I desperately didn't want to be like that.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and I hit it at every level.
Marc:So you tried to date girls and everything else?
Guest:I didn't try to date.
Guest:I tried to, like, you know, fake it.
Guest:I would leave bars.
Guest:If ever a girl had a crush on me, I would get so drunk.
Guest:yeah sloppy drunk so by the end of the night she was like who needs him you know or i would leave girl i would leave girl at bars with girls and drop them off at their house and go and say goodbye and then go back to the bar and say i i fucked her yeah oh really yeah yeah and then she would tell people she fucked me too so i worked there were some girls uh that said that they had fooled around with me that didn't i'm like keep it coming you know so thank you so anyway coincidental temporary beards yeah right exactly
Guest:But I saw these two kids and I thought, I didn't get to do that.
Guest:And I do picture in my head why I didn't get to do that.
Guest:A person, you know, I don't want to edit myself.
Guest:I want to say the way I picture a homophobic person that's wrong and maybe religious, maybe going, meh.
Guest:And you're wrong.
Guest:Time will tell you're wrong.
Guest:And I always say, if you are homophobic and you're out there, you better be positive you're right.
Guest:Because it isn't going to blow if all these kids are killing themselves and later.
Guest:How convenient in 20 years you get to write a book, and God bless you if you do it, to say how wrong you were.
Guest:They're dead.
Guest:So why don't you have a soul-searching moment now?
Guest:Go into your house, shut the door, and be fucking positive you're making kids feel like crap for no good goddamn reason, because you can apologize in 20 years if you're a politician.
Guest:I watched those debates, and I was, Mark, I was going out of my fucking mind how it seems like we're going backwards.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're going to live to see where they're embarrassed about what they're saying.
Guest:It's not going to happen in 50 years.
Guest:In 10 years, maybe they're going to look, they're going to have to show their grandchildren that and look like fools.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's going to be mortifying.
Guest:Imagine if there was footage of you, not 1950, but 1989 going, if somebody goes, do you think black people and white people should be able to be married?
Guest:And wouldn't you be proud if this was the footage?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:please stop talking to me about this i feel dirty for weighing in yeah that's how clear i thought we would be at this but it's still even people are afraid to do it with that anger of like stop yes whatever they want to do should gay people to don't ask me what gay people whatever they want to do teach marry whatever i don't this is not a long conversation right whatever they fucking want to do yeah
Guest:I'm watching.
Guest:It's not like that up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The ones that are not, the ones that are probably totally pro-gay are afraid to lose the vote, so they're dancing around it.
Guest:Meanwhile, kids are fucking, you're ruining them.
Guest:Honestly, not me.
Guest:I'm home getting frustrated.
Guest:But I know there's some kid, I overused this term, you're sucking the fucking soul out of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Guest:Back to the kit, you know those kids.
Guest:I just thought I picture this person now yanked wrong So I didn't get to have a youth.
Guest:I'll never fucking get to do it I'll never get to be in junior high and talk about what's honestly on my mind or spend intimate time with somebody that you like Yeah, it's done and I'm okay.
Marc:I'm okay But some other kid isn't but what but what you know what stopped you then?
Marc:What was was a fear of judgment?
Guest:Um, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Back then that's, uh, well, I'm just trying to picture like, you know, when we like around the time that you knew that, you know, you had these feelings and you were gay and you accepted that within yourself.
Marc:But, but alongside of that, you realized in a, in a, in a horrendous way that it was completely somehow socially unacceptable in your mind.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought I would just go.
Guest:I just thought that's that's I'm trying to go there.
Guest:OK, 21 years old.
Guest:Where was I at?
Marc:Well, when when did you really, you know, active?
Marc:You know, when did you feel 21?
Marc:That's when you first.
Guest:I mean, I knew when I was you hear this so much, but it's true.
Guest:It's like, you know, when you're 13.
Marc:But you didn't ever like, you know, have any intimate time with a man until you're 21.
Guest:Till I was 21.
Guest:And then I felt horrible.
Guest:I felt, you know, all the cliche stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I felt really, yeah.
Guest:I felt like that was it and I'll never do it again.
Guest:And I would, I mean, I'm really being honest.
Guest:I would even, when I would masturbate, I would try to think of a girl in the last minute.
Guest:Like the last second as I was coming.
Guest:I'd be like, okay, you know, just anything.
Marc:You're in the middle of it.
Marc:Girl, boobs, good.
Marc:Oh, yes.
Marc:I'm okay.
Marc:I came right on boobs.
Marc:I'm good.
Guest:I'm good, I'm good.
Guest:So yeah, and I just, it was embarrassing.
Guest:You know what I realized?
Marc:You were ashamed of it.
Guest:I was ashamed of it, and I realized something.
Guest:Sex, when you think of straight people having sex is embarrassing.
Guest:The whole picture is embarrassing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's silly.
Guest:It's not like it's just with gay people, but it's added to that.
Guest:When you now are 21 and no one pictures that, then you don't want to picture your mom fooling around with somebody, so it's across the board, but it's that times 100.
Guest:And it was just embarrassing to think, like, he's with, and I would hear people say that.
Guest:And this is what I want to be really clear with this.
Guest:I didn't want to make today about me having like more.
Guest:I wanted to make it about myself.
Guest:But as I'm talking to you, I realize it's very hard not to start.
Guest:You could say preaching, but it's OK.
Guest:It's what's coming out of me right now.
Marc:But I think it's like, you know, yeah.
Marc:And I think it's great.
Marc:And I've never it's very interesting to me to know you for years, to know your comedy and to see you get worked up because you're a pretty manic guy and that's your style.
Marc:But like the one thing that sort of like that I noticed after we started having conversations around talking about this was that he's never been able to talk about himself at all.
Marc:And if there was one thing that I look at your career and I look at your comedy over the years is that you don't have any personal life on stage, you know, some stuff.
Marc:your dad and you know there's bits but there you know there's this whole resource of your personal experience and your emotions that you just were not going to access I would hear people say things like hey do you know blah blah blah is gay because they didn't know about me so they'd be telling me and it was never anything like the extremist you know we're gonna go good it was but but it was always like
Guest:Yeah, I guess I'm all right with that, but I can't imagine.
Guest:It was always about more sex.
Marc:It was about two guys.
Marc:Do you imagine doing that with a guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there was bits like that.
Marc:I mean, Kennison did a bit like that.
Marc:Dice did a bit like that.
Marc:How does another guy look at a guy?
Marc:He's hairy ass and that thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Good example of like going, you might go, oh, well, it's comedy.
Guest:No.
Guest:It's ignorance.
Guest:When everybody makes a joke that they're not homophobic, but their joke is, I know why.
Guest:Because you always go, when they're off stage.
Guest:To me, if you make homophobic jokes and you're homophobic, I don't got a problem with that.
Guest:You're dumb, but at least you're consistent.
Guest:But when someone goes, oh, that's not the way I feel.
Guest:Oh, then why don't you make a joke the way you feel?
Guest:Oh, I know why.
Guest:Because that's fucking hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because of doing your stereotypical jokes been done.
Guest:Look at me looking at a hairy guy's ass.
Guest:But I bet you that Andrew Dice Clay isn't homophobic.
Guest:If I had to gamble $500.
Guest:So back then, why didn't you write a joke about that?
Guest:I'll give Joe Rogan.
Guest:I think I heard Joe Rogan say something, which I love having a tough guy on the right side.
Guest:He did it.
Guest:Yeah, be a bully for the right cause instead of like, no, because that's harder.
Guest:That's harder.
Guest:That's scarier.
Guest:So when I heard that, I went in.
Guest:So that's why I say how to get people to be comfortable with who they are is...
Guest:Just be clear with your thoughts.
Guest:Don't let your thoughts... You know how many times somebody says something like that and then you end up telling them and then they have their mom's a lesbian?
Guest:I had that happen once.
Guest:So if you're not homophobic, let nothing that comes out of your mouth jokingly or like just... That comforts kids.
Guest:That's what's going to make a kid comfortable not to keep it like I did inside.
Guest:When he hears people saying intelligent, open-minded things in a very...
Guest:the harsher the the more like fuck this shit type of just hardcore talking always made me feel better i remember when i was very young my friend harrison i think somebody said you know blah blah blah is gay and he didn't even he doesn't even remember saying this here's how just it came out yeah like just simple logic yeah they go i can't imagine two guys doing that and he's the one who said casually goes wait imagine your sister blowing guys yeah
Guest:Just like brilliantly but simply going, yes, we don't imagine anybody.
Guest:So if that's your problem with it, we'll move on.
Marc:What they're really saying is that, like, I can't imagine having sex with a guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, you know, because people picture people having sex all the time.
Marc:You do, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And, you know, and if you have enough time, you should probably picture all equations.
Marc:Just keep your mind open.
Marc:But what I think is interesting in your case, and I think you're fortunate in that, you were okay because you had some acceptance at home, but the cultural forces that were against you made you still fight your own desires and feelings.
Marc:That even though you didn't think you were morally reprehensible or anything else, you knew that the judgment of society was going to judge you negatively, and that's what made you fucking hate yourself.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And I have to assume that evolving out of, as you got older, to evolve out of self-hatred and finally get to a point at 47 to put an end to the charade of it.
Marc:I can't imagine that in recent years you've hated yourself for anything other than not opening up about it.
Guest:i i it was that it was more when with all the kids killing themselves what took me to get to do this i went online i went online to so i could have the motivation to help some people that were going through this it ends up there's some 13 year old this morning i had to keep watching stuff mark i i woke up this morning 6 30 in the morning with a really bad stomach ache and again i told myself in case any stop it
Guest:Stop.
Guest:No one cares.
Guest:It's not about that.
Guest:But I still this happened.
Guest:Like I said, I go online and watch this 13 year old kid.
Guest:And here I go.
Guest:I'm trying to do this to motivate them.
Guest:Yet there's a six in the morning.
Guest:There's a 13 year old kid motivating me.
Guest:I was like, are you?
Guest:It's like I saw the story.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:Like, oh, shit, this is.
Guest:This so you know the full circle here.
Guest:I got it instantly like are you fucking shitting me like he's motivating me I'm doing this to motivate them and here he's helping me 13 year old kid holding a hacky sack Bouncing his hand.
Guest:He goes alright.
Guest:Well, I may as well say it bouncing bouncing.
Guest:Yeah, um, I'm gay.
Guest:Yeah, he goes so
Guest:There, I said it.
Guest:You know, he goes, I don't know what to say.
Guest:It's not that hard.
Guest:He goes, all I can say is it works for me.
Guest:I thought, oh, you little brilliant, brilliant young man.
Guest:You know, like it works for me.
Guest:That's how fucking simple it is.
Guest:It works for me.
Guest:You know, when he's 13 and I'm like, I get teared up a little bit watching it.
Guest:And then I go, you got to stop this.
Guest:You got to, you know, you got to, you know, you got to get rid of all that.
Marc:Like outside of like...
Marc:I mean, well, let's sort of track that.
Marc:I mean, from, okay, so you're 21.
Marc:You're like, I'm not going to, you know, I can't do this.
Marc:I don't want to be this guy.
Marc:I'm, you know, I'm going to jerk off and finish on girls.
Marc:And, you know, I'm going to do everything I can to avoid this.
Marc:I mean, how long before you surrendered to your true feelings?
Marc:I mean, it said like, oh, this is it.
Marc:This is who I am.
Marc:How long did the fight go on?
Guest:Well, the fight outwardly went on until today.
Marc:No, but I mean, when you weren't comfortable being gay and you were like, I don't want to act out on this.
Marc:Well, you said you were 21 and you were like, oh, fuck.
Marc:I'm never doing it again.
Marc:When did that stop?
Yeah.
Marc:Later that week or?
Guest:Did it end that day?
Guest:Would you wrap that up that night?
Guest:You know, it gets mushy after a while.
Guest:Because it was ongoing.
Guest:For a long time, for a long time that I was just thinking, you know, the thoughts you have are now I'm telling you as a well, a sane man.
Guest:But, you know, so when I tell you what I'm about to tell you, keep in mind, I was scared.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:I was hoping I married someone with cancer, a girl, and she'd die.
Guest:And that's why I could tell people I never...
Guest:I go, oh, that's what I'll tell people.
Guest:I never got married again because I never got over my wife who had cancer.
Marc:So you had a plan.
Guest:Yeah, I had a plan.
Marc:To keep the cover.
Guest:Yeah, I meet a girl with cancer, date a girl with cancer, then she would die.
Guest:Maybe I'll meet a girl, find out she has cancer, and I'll date her.
Guest:That way she dies.
Guest:And you might think, come on, Todd, how much are you serious here?
Guest:I'm totally serious.
Guest:That went through my head.
Guest:In a silly, let me just give perfect clarity on that thought.
Guest:Even back then, I got the ridiculousness of it.
Guest:But I did think that would work.
Guest:You know, maybe I'll get married.
Marc:Everything in your being sort of was wrapped around, you know, maintaining closet status.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And that any way you could make it more believable would be a tremendous help to you.
Guest:yeah and then you get to an age you know you talk about it gets blurry get to an age where you don't want to say my roommate yeah you know that's more pathetic than admitting who you are you know my roommate people are like roommate you know it's like where i get my hair cut yeah i think one of the guys it was an old barber shop i think one of the guys might have been gay they're like hey you know jerry sing bachelor for life i go hey you got a feeling he's not a bachelor
Guest:He seems a little... I don't think he's getting a lot of pussy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Anyway, but yeah, it just went on for a long time.
Marc:But during that time, what were your relationships like?
Guest:Quick, a very short-lived because I got nervous.
Guest:So there would be not a lot and very short-lived.
Marc:Was it more like the playing out of that scene when you made the pact with a guy that you would date somebody that was out and you'd be nervous?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, and it was also meeting, and again, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, I need to be crystal clear with this.
Guest:Everybody deserves, whether somebody is gay and feminine or gay and straight, it doesn't fucking matter.
Guest:Every child deserves to have a peaceful life with harmony.
Guest:But I'm just going from my perspective, it was very hard to meet people.
Guest:Just as if, like, you know, you're not straight-a-phobic if you don't like guys that are parody of, like, oh, how you doing?
Guest:No, if a girl says, I don't want to date that guy because he's like, oh, you'd be like, you wouldn't go, oh, you hate guys.
Guest:You'd be like, no, I don't.
Guest:I just, I'm not attracted.
Guest:That's not my, what I'm attracted to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To, I like, you know, just regular.
Guest:I don't like overly, I don't want to date a guy that's, oh, how you doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to date flamings.
Marc:I just want a guy, you know, like just a normal guy.
Marc:Hey, how you doing?
Marc:What's up?
Marc:You know, did you ever put any ads out looking for a gay man that refuses to publicly acknowledge he's gay in any way to protect our relationship?
Marc:And that would be wonderful.
Guest:Well, some would hide it at first, which is also, by the way, as an adult now, I have empathy for the person that thought they had to hide that they're feminine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They can meet another person like that and be happy.
Guest:You shouldn't have to hide it either.
Guest:So I'm sad for that person now.
Guest:But back then I got angry.
Guest:Like I would meet someone.
Guest:They were totally normal.
Guest:And then like on the third maybe date, I would see they would be like, you know, a little bit more like, you know, hello.
Guest:OK, I'm exaggerating.
Marc:This is a very interesting thing, because like I was at the Aspen Comedy Festival once and John Rigi was up there and he had done a sketch.
Marc:that I thought was spectacular.
Marc:And this is not coming from a gay perspective.
Marc:I had a professor in college who was very out, very gay, original, that first wave of sort of the gay revolution from the 60s, from the Stonewall period.
Marc:And he had tremendous impact on my life in the way I saw sexuality and understood things.
Marc:But Rigi had put together this sketch about these two gay couples that were having a dinner party.
Marc:And one was a younger, more conservative gay couple that didn't appear gay.
Marc:And the other two were like, hello, honey, you know, wearing their hats and everything else.
Marc:And just the friction between the two generations of being out.
Marc:I found that to be fascinating.
Marc:And I found that the reservations on behalf of the more conservative, more conservative,
Marc:You know, modern gay people, the gay men who maybe not necessarily closeted, but didn't feel it necessary to parade their sexuality.
Marc:But I think there is the old school thinks that, well, that's what defined our community.
Marc:So if you're not going to parade your sexuality and especially if you're going to be in the closet, you're you might as well be straight or an enemy.
Marc:Now, I'm sensing in you that you have some aversion to the spectacle of gay culture.
Guest:Not, and again, this is like... Just on a personal level.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm glad you're bringing it up, and it's my job to be articulate about it, so don't... But this was my biggest thing when I tap into this area as going back to a young person.
Guest:I go, I don't want to tap into it now.
Guest:Those problems as an adult, I realized, were my problems.
Guest:Like, if somebody had a friend that was feminine, I would not necessarily want them going out with us to a comedy show because I'd be embarrassed.
Guest:I get as an adult, when you're comfortable with who you are, who cares?
Guest:You have some people that are, your friends are all over the place.
Guest:But in that case, it was outing me.
Marc:Ah.
Guest:So I was nervous about that.
Guest:I remember once coming back to my house and my friend Gina had this friend over and he was out on my porch and he was peeling peas and he was gone singing, I'm a survivor.
Guest:I'm a survivor.
Guest:And I'm like, okay, get him in the house, please.
Guest:My neighbors.
Guest:That's horrible.
Guest:horrible like that's horrible like but but again that's another person you know that that was me that was my own issue and i'm not just saying that to write off being heartless to someone else but but back to what you said about the aversion in the own community i want to be really clear with that again i am
Guest:And that's part of me doing this.
Guest:So I don't care.
Guest:I don't want to care anymore.
Marc:No, I'm just talking about you and growing through this.
Guest:Growing through this.
Guest:Yeah, I was very happy when I realized that I remember it was like a baseball player wrote a book.
Guest:And I remember thinking, again, this is, you know, could be 25 years ago.
Guest:I was like, oh, my God, like that guy, like that's me.
Guest:Like that could I could relate to that as opposed to coming out.
Guest:Yeah, about like that guy made it like, okay, that made it like cool for me.
Guest:Like, okay, that reminds me of me.
Guest:I can relate with that guy.
Guest:But you still couldn't do it.
Guest:No, nowhere near it.
Guest:Nowhere near it.
Guest:I just, you know.
Marc:No, I was always- Because like, and maybe, I don't know if I'm speaking out of school or it's my lack of understanding, but you do, like even, it seems to me that a lot of times socializing within the gay community, you socialize with other gay people.
Marc:You know, that, you know, like I, you know, I've been on, you know, subways, I've been at parties and there's, you know, little crews of, of gay men of all different kinds and gay women of all different kinds.
Guest:I think as time goes on, that's going to change.
Guest:I think what happens a lot of times is there's a acceptance with that group and understanding.
Guest:You have so much to talk about.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I realize, and that makes total sense.
Marc:But that must have at some point been unattractive to you that like, you know, hang around a bunch of gay guys.
Marc:And are you trying to trick me?
Marc:No, no, no, no, no.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I think it's it's just like in sort of, you know, illustrating, you know, I know that your message on some level is is, you know, for people to not be homophobic and also for kids to find strength in what you're doing.
Marc:But but I think that the feelings are that you had, even though you were comfortable with who you were about about coming out because of public perception is really the biggest part of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because the last thing I want to do is do this whole interview and have some kid that is, you know, just happens to be very feminine to hear this and think, wait, is he saying that?
Guest:No, no, no, no way.
Guest:Like, you know, I'm just saying as somebody that was confused, the only person that would be cruel to a person like that is either a fucking idiot or someone like me who was their own self.
Guest:Whatever you want to call it.
Guest:I was afraid for myself.
Marc:You didn't want to be identified.
Guest:No sane person makes another human being because I get it.
Guest:And by the way, I'm sure, I know I'm making a right-hand turn here, but I always thought my cause wouldn't be pro-gay.
Guest:It would be like, leave everybody the fuck alone.
Guest:How about if you're not gay at all and you're a football player, but you want to be in the ballet?
Guest:hey you know what you might go oh you're comparing gay to that that kid doesn't do you know what i feel bad for him too yeah leave him the fuck alone right it's like it's time that bullies stop bullying and we bully them because all they it's like anybody that wants to do anything good yeah that does suck if you're some guy that's totally straight you love women you're on the football team and you want to do ballet too hey i'm sure that kid would either never do it his whole life tap into something creative he wanted to do so leave them alone leave
Guest:Leave everybody the fuck alone.
Guest:Let people do what they want.
Guest:And that's why that's my bigger cause.
Guest:Like, you know, the gay flag.
Guest:I always thought it would be better to have another flag.
Guest:Not pro-gay, pro-everything.
Guest:I don't give a fuck.
Guest:Transgender, gay, straight, you're a little feminine.
Guest:That flag means we don't give a fuck who you are.
Guest:come in.
Guest:Come into this store.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, leave the whole world alone.
Guest:I don't want to, to me, that's the bigger cause.
Guest:Because after, like, who's around the corner once, you know, the gay thing gets a little better, or it's gotten better, but even much better, whatever.
Guest:Then they'll, stop it.
Leave everybody to
Guest:fuck alone yeah you know that's sort of like the cause yeah yeah yeah but but yeah anyway so yeah it was a very long time before i um was able to go okay you're gonna get into a relationship and um you know i'm trying to be somewhat i mean i am in a relationship
Marc:How long has that been going on?
Guest:15 years.
Marc:That's solid for anybody.
Guest:And it was the first person, and again, I'm trying to be a little sensitive, even in our circle of friends, everybody knows, but I don't want to, for what it's worth.
Guest:But I'd always met people that I thought were maybe gay and ended up they were straight.
Guest:So that happened a lot.
Guest:You know, I was like, oh, maybe.
Guest:And, you know, sometimes because you did stand up comedy, they thought, oh, this guy's cool.
Guest:And they would hang out.
Marc:So you'd go out and you thought maybe.
Guest:Yeah, you think that and then you learn they're not.
Guest:But you still end up.
Guest:Well, this cool friend, you got a friend.
Marc:I like friends.
Marc:Have you ever had that awkward situation where you you maybe were forward with somebody who wasn't gay?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was, it was, I lucked out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just thought it was somebody that I, it was like 22 and I, and I, he said, Oh dude, he goes, I'm not.
Guest:And I just thought, and I was staying down his house down the Jersey shore.
Guest:And I was like, fuck, I felt Mark.
Guest:I'm sweating now thinking about it.
Guest:I was in the car.
Guest:I said something and I was like,
Guest:the next day I started packing my stuff, because I was down there.
Guest:His family had a beach house, but they weren't there.
Guest:We were just staying there, like in the Jersey Shore, like a lot of times.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:In Newport, I forget where it was at, but whatever, Long Beach.
Marc:So on the way down, you said this.
Guest:No, he was down there.
Guest:I drove down and then met him, and we went out one night, and we were both drinking, and I said, hey, I want to tell you something, because he had...
Guest:We had become really good friends, and he was like, oh, no.
Guest:And then the next morning, I got up to pack and go home.
Guest:I thought, he's not going to want it.
Guest:He's going to be nice to me, but he's weirded out.
Guest:And he came in, and he was like, Todd.
Guest:He was probably 21, too, and he goes, Todd, I don't give a fuck.
Yeah.
Guest:I go, how do I know you do... I remember saying this.
Guest:I go, how do I know you're not like... You know you shouldn't give a fuck, but if I wasn't around, you'd be like, yeah, I told him to stay, but I was a little weird.
Guest:He goes, Todd, the only thing that's going to weird me out is you leave.
Guest:He goes, I swear to fucking God.
Guest:He goes, I don't give a shit.
Guest:And he asked questions, which a lot of times the middle category is not as much anymore.
Guest:It's 2012 is they're OK with it, but not OK enough to ask questions.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I noticed that's changing a lot.
Guest:You really know someone's comfort level.
Guest:And hey, someone should be commended if they're like, dude, you're my friend.
Guest:I love you.
Guest:They give you a hug.
Guest:And then let's never mention again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that's as much as they could do, that's as much as they could do.
Guest:That deserves to be, you're a good person.
Guest:But when people are comfortable asking, and I can think of a few people, they're comfortable, and that's how you get more comfortable.
Guest:Matter of fact, I've had people ask me questions, I'm more embarrassed to answer, but I go, get over it, because they're comfortable enough to ask.
Guest:They're asking questions like they'd ask about a girl.
Guest:Hey, you do that, you do this, what'd you do?
Guest:Is that guy good looking or whatever?
Guest:But anyway, when I met the person that I'm with, I just- I'm not going to ask any of those questions.
Guest:I just remember thinking I'm telling some of it.
Guest:I just remember pulling away and I'm baring my soul here a little bit thinking it's not going to, you know, it's just this is another person that I'm going to meet.
Guest:Nothing's going to happen.
Guest:And I just pulled over on the side of the road, you know, literally because I felt defeated.
Guest:I was like, fuck.
Marc:This is when you were at the Jersey Shore.
Guest:No, no, this is later when I met somebody.
Guest:What happened with that guy?
Guest:I stayed down there.
Guest:And he was cool?
Guest:Yeah, we had a great time.
Guest:And it really, I lucked out.
Guest:Because not everybody has that situation.
Guest:Somebody else has somebody that lets you go and doesn't ever talk to you again.
Marc:What kind of questions did he ask that made you feel comfortable?
Guest:Just, you know, a lot of the questions you're asking me.
Guest:What kind of guys do you like?
Guest:Yeah, like, hey, we were at a bar one night, and the one thing that was awesome, you know, obviously, and I have that, my friend Brian Silbert's here with me today, and I just told him about six months ago, is that we can joke about it now, and it just adds a whole other layer of jokes, which is fucking awesome.
Guest:But back then, my friend Drew, he didn't know.
Guest:He goes...
Guest:Now, like, can I make jokes?
Guest:I'm like, yes.
Guest:And all my same jokes, we got to do jokes about it.
Guest:Like, we were walking through the woman's shoe department.
Guest:And he goes, now, if you want to sit down and try on shoes.
Guest:I go, Drew, I'm not fucking, I don't wear women's shoes.
Guest:I'm a guy.
Guest:He goes, oh, I thought you were, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But playing, like role playing.
Guest:And that was so much fun.
Marc:Do you have that moment, too?
Marc:Like, you, like, as somebody who's sensitive to it, like, do you meet dudes where you're like, oh, he's gay and he just doesn't.
Guest:Well, I don't believe in the, what do they call, when someone knows that they know another person's gay.
Guest:Gaydar?
Guest:Gaydar.
Guest:I don't necessarily believe in that.
Marc:But do you ever meet people that you think are either latent or closeted and you have sort of a moment where you're like, oh, that guy's got to.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I do.
Guest:And by the way, sometimes I'm wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you're like, that's why people love to talk about when they're right.
Guest:They love to go, I knew it.
Guest:I knew it.
Guest:You know, and then you're like, yeah, when you're wrong, do you pranch around about that for a month when somebody end up really genuinely isn't?
Guest:Do you go, I was wrong about that.
Guest:You love talking about when you were right.
Guest:Good.
Guest:We can all take a stab in the dark at who's gay and be right sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I can get inclination.
Guest:Sometimes if you see little things, I don't want to out people right now because I realize that.
Guest:By the way, growing up like this, listening to the radio really makes me aware of what I'm saying because right now if I go, it's this or that, there's some kid that's 18 right now.
Guest:I'm going, oh, he's crushing me here.
Guest:He's ruining me.
Guest:So I'm not going to necessarily say all the things that are, but it doesn't matter.
Guest:You get the gist of it.
Guest:Yes, I've been through it and I go, oh, he probably is.
Guest:Sometimes I'm
Marc:positive end up some wrong ends up i'm wrong yeah but um yeah i i've definitely had you know we can so now let's get back to that point i was making before about your inability because of your commitment to uh to to keeping this secret to really access your your personal life uh you know publicly you know as a performer and in general i mean do you do you anticipate that this relief will will what do you think it's going to do to your performance
Guest:i mean i don't think you're going to tour with scott capuro tomorrow but i mean i think it'll help me it probably be a slow process like i said it's not going to change overnight it's not like i'm going to go on stage tomorrow and start being able to talk about this but maybe it'll be at the ucb one night right where i'll go something i'll be like um uh you know my girlfriend um
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That'll get a big laugh from 30 people in the crowd that heard this interview or whoever.
Guest:That might be the first thing I do.
Guest:And then I hope it just is one step up to... Hey, I don't think... And some people don't do it even if they're straight, but I think this answers your question.
Guest:Public... And again, it's not a boo-hoo thing, but it is...
Guest:It's basically going, I'm fine, but I want to remind you what the ramifications of being wrong and fucking with people's minds does to them.
Guest:I'm probably never going to be able to hold someone's hand in public the rest of my life.
Guest:And anybody who goes...
Guest:I think Todd's doing that to himself.
Guest:Well, fucking think harder.
Guest:This happened over 47 fucking years.
Guest:It's unreversible.
Guest:But that doesn't mean to have the other extreme and be unhealthy and sick and, you know, and not make strides to be who I am.
Guest:Does that make sense to you a little bit?
Marc:It does.
Marc:But what's like it's.
Marc:I hear your anger on this at the loss of being able to overcome that obstacle of public judgment and societal norms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I still think that it seems you might be at the beginning of a fairly interesting and difficult process with that stuff because there's no reason why you won't be able to do that at this point from this day forward.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I won't blame it won't happen tomorrow.
Marc:And by the way, I'm not saying it definitely won't maybe I was a little powerful in the way that I said it No, but I think that this struggle the struggle of of that wiring of being that afraid To be to be public about your your feelings and who you are is is very fucking deep and it's profound And and and and I think that your experiences is common to a lot of people I think a lot of people are like well I'm gay, but I'm fucking I just can't deal with the stress and
Marc:Or the victimization of being public about it.
Marc:But unfortunately, that's part of the struggle that you're talking about.
Marc:But I think that maybe there'll come a time.
Guest:Well, like I said, I might have been powerful in the way I said it.
Guest:No, you're angry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also, if it is ever going to happen at any level, and again, straight people are all over the gambit with how much they show public affection.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some guys aren't comfortable.
Guest:But in that same area, if it ever is going to happen, this is certainly the start of it, this very second of what we're doing right now.
Guest:So I do want to celebrate that, that I did that.
Guest:And then what happens down the road can only be healthier than what's happened in the past.
Marc:Well, I think what we're talking about here, and I think what's amazing about it is that...
Marc:You, you know, at your core, you wanted to be relieved of this this this thing already.
Marc:This this secret, you know, and having to maintain it.
Guest:And also an over preface one more time.
Guest:Something that a shitload of people know.
Guest:I just haven't been honest for them to be able to say what they know.
Guest:It's not like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:OK, but but you're also a very aware of the fact that you didn't want to be only gay.
Marc:In the sense that like a lot of times what happens is like, well, he's just like it's that forefront thing is that you wanted to be who you are.
Marc:You know, I'm Todd Glass.
Marc:It doesn't really fucking matter.
Marc:You know, that that is unimportant.
Marc:That's not even a conversation.
Marc:And but but just to get to that point to express that it's taken it's taken you this long that that that I think one of your struggles was that you didn't want that.
Marc:to overshadow the soul of you.
Marc:And at this point in your time, you're like, well, I'm literally keeping a lock on part of my soul and I need to become a complete person publicly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Does that make sense?
Guest:Yeah, I like when somebody says what I'm feeling better than I can because then I just go, thank you.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you do acknowledge that, you know, it's going to be a little, you know, this is like, I envy you on one level.
Marc:And I also don't envy you on the level that, you know, there's going to be a little, it's a new world after today.
Guest:It is, and not amongst my comedic friends, obviously.
Guest:But I'm going to, like I said, I always say, I'm going back to Philadelphia.
Guest:I'm going to go on stage at Helium in Philadelphia.
Guest:I still give the plugs even when I come out.
Guest:What if I had the dates all written down?
Guest:But you know what's interesting?
Guest:But it's going to be, yes, it's going to be like, you know, I just think, and let me just get this out real quick because of the thought I had.
Guest:Because I got to do it, look, if you're a doctor, if you're a plumber, if you're an accountant and you do it, you start, some people do write a form letter and they give it to like 50 people.
Guest:I get that.
Guest:It just says everything.
Guest:I got to do it this way for a lot of people.
Guest:I know I'm gonna go back to Philly.
Guest:Maybe it is when somebody hears this, they see me around town.
Guest:Maybe somebody just gives me a laugh.
Guest:Or they give me a hug, or they just go, good for you, or whatever they say.
Guest:But now it's over.
Guest:And it's easy to be able to be more honest.
Guest:So for me, this is sort of, in a weird way, made that be able to happen a little easier for me.
Marc:I just wonder how it's going to...
Marc:that you're going to have this thing, you know, what we've talked about out there.
Marc:It's sort of exciting.
Marc:I wonder how it's going to really make you feel in general.
Marc:I mean, is it going to, you know, there's going to be that moment where you're like, oh God, that all the fears that you had before you came out,
Marc:Now you're going to be able to walk on stage and know that a lot of people know.
Guest:Some people know, right.
Guest:And I know that the... And again, you overhear this so much.
Guest:I would imagine that the people that are supportive and go, you know, good for you or the kids or everything.
Guest:I know for one thing.
Guest:I know I did the right thing.
Guest:That's what made me finally have the courage to come on your show.
Guest:My manager said, Todd, maybe you got to do this before you're ready.
Guest:And that was the best thing.
Guest:And then also...
Guest:My friend who has been like unbelievable talking me through this my friend Kevin Sousa just got me to do this he I said don't I I called him I was in Philadelphia I was staying at my friend's parents house because I had a radio show to do and they live right around the corner.
Guest:And it's a house I used to stay in when I was younger.
Guest:I was up in the bedroom, my friend's bedroom.
Guest:He's not there.
Guest:He lives with his wife in Hermosa Beach.
Guest:I'm staying in the bedroom and I'm getting ready to call you.
Guest:And I started to get a little bit, I started to panic a little.
Guest:That was the first call.
Guest:And I went on YouTube and I started YouTubing these kids.
Guest:And here they're killing themselves and they're hanging themselves.
Guest:And I go, come on.
Guest:And I dialed you and I said, Mark, I told you on your phone, you called me right back.
Guest:I let it go to voicemail.
Guest:I'm like, I'll do it in the morning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then I called my friend Kevin.
Guest:He goes, Todd, he talked me through it.
Guest:He goes, look, the reason it's uncomfortable, you're comfortable doing what's wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But not that it's wrong.
Guest:I'm not talking to some other person that's not ready to do it yet.
Guest:Just be right where you're at.
Guest:Don't let anyone make you do anything before you're ready.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Stay right where you're at.
Guest:Right.
Guest:is never to tell kids to come out.
Guest:It's to tell everybody else to fucking make them comfortable to come out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's all you can do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Make them comfortable.
Guest:Don't ask them.
Guest:Leave them alone about it.
Guest:Just say things.
Guest:Because I know some good-hearted people want to say, hey, by the way, dude, if you are, I had people do that to me.
Guest:Decent people were going, if you are, you know, I don't give a shit.
Guest:I knew they were great for doing it, but it didn't help me.
Marc:Just say it about other people.
Marc:Well, it takes courage no matter what, because there's always going to be those forces that have caused this problem.
Marc:They're always going to be there.
Marc:And if you're outnumbered in your particular situation and the courage is not within you to rise above that or take whatever kind of hit, even possibly violence, that you need to be in a safe place with yourself and with the people around you to do that.
Marc:That's just all the anger you have is at a force in our culture that is not going away.
Marc:It's not going away tomorrow.
Marc:It will be there when everything does level off and things become okay.
Marc:There's always going to be hating, ignorant, angry people that'll make life awful for other people, especially people who they see as minorities or they see as wrong, even if it isn't wrong.
Marc:So I think what you're saying is a decent message in that wherever you're at, it's fine, but know that there's support there, that know that there are people that understand, and that if you can't do it in the situation you're in, either in yourself or in your physical situation, then hopefully you'll get to a place where you can.
Marc:Just know that there's love and there's support there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And ask other people, you know, my plea would be to beg other people to be careful of what you're saying.
Marc:Like now I'm like, I feel guilty.
Marc:I just did Pete Holmes podcast the other day and I asked him, I'm like, how can you be so gay and not be gay?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:It's all.
Guest:That's why people you can't.
Guest:But it's coming from somebody.
Guest:Most people know.
Guest:Hey, you should hear the shit I say when I'm by myself.
Guest:People know where my heart is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I see, you know, I'm Jewish, for instance.
Guest:People in a car with me know that I'm not anti-Semitic.
Guest:It's comedic if I'm in the car with people that know where my soul is at and I see one Jewish person in my neighborhood, I'll go, oh, my God, I've got to move out here.
Guest:The Jews are swarming all over.
Guest:Now, you could go, is that a hate?
Guest:No, because it's obviously.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, it's amazing.
Marc:Todd, I'll be honest with you.
Marc:I've known you a long time.
Marc:I've talked to you a lot.
Marc:And the clarity and and focus and, you know, that, you know, hearing you say, you know, passionate things about how you feel and where you're at in your life is such a tremendous joy and relief to me.
Marc:Because you're one of those guys, you're manic, you're passionate, you're very funny, and you're all over the place.
Marc:And I can tell you right fucking now that whatever's gonna happen after today, your focus in this honesty, it's gonna change your life.
Marc:Because I don't see a guy that's like, hey, here we go, look, we're dancing.
Marc:You're not dancing around shit anymore.
Marc:And I think that in terms of your comedy, there's no reason that you have to discuss it at all.
Marc:But I don't know, like given the passion that you have now in talking about, you know, bullying for the right reason and talking about, you know, not all gay people are gay people.
Marc:Like, you know, that stereotype doesn't fit that that that type of the sort of resolve you have around it and the thoughts and heart you have around it.
Marc:It's just, it's, it's a phenomenal thing.
Marc:It's going to change your life.
Guest:You don't need to hear me say that.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Hey, believe me, I do.
Guest:And I really appreciate it.
Guest:And yeah, I feel right now, you know, it's weird because I feel really good.
Guest:I feel really good right now.
Guest:I don't feel, I feel heard.
Guest:I feel, you know, and so I hope, you know, that it does.
Guest:I know I'll probably get in the car and have a stomach ache or on the way home, have a stomach ache, but I know that it's all for a good thing.
Guest:You know, it's, it's like, you know,
Guest:I just, you know, one more thing random on my mind, and I don't know why.
Guest:I know I'll be able to talk about this again, but it's the only thing, one other thing that I thought, oh, yeah, you wanted to mention that.
Marc:I think we're probably going to do a phoner tomorrow too, right?
Guest:Yeah, my follow-up.
Guest:I should also say, it was on the funny part, Mark, two things.
Guest:One more coming today, and he goes, and I heard the apprehension in your voice.
Guest:I thought you were going to cancel.
Guest:I didn't know you were setting up a comedic bit.
Guest:He goes, Todd, I don't think I'm ready to go through with this.
Guest:Ha, ha, ha.
Guest:And then the first time I was so scared to tell you on the phone.
Guest:It's very hard for me to say those final words.
Guest:So I would say to you, Mark, there's something about myself.
Guest:I wanted to thought maybe it was okay to be honest on your podcast about who I am.
Guest:You go, buddy, you're going to have to say it.
Guest:I go, come on, help me.
Guest:And you go, no, no, no.
Guest:You're going to have to say it.
Guest:And then I think you did say it for me.
Guest:I was like, thank you.
Guest:And then you said, I go, well, I don't...
Guest:You go, Todd, I know what you want me to do.
Guest:You want me to mention it on my podcast?
Guest:Not have me on and discuss it.
Guest:And you mentioned it when you do your pre-things on the podcast.
Guest:You come on and go, hey, we got a great show to get.
Guest:Oh, by the way, Todd Glass called me today.
Guest:And then move right on past it.
Marc:He's gay.
Marc:Our guest today.
Guest:And then I, which made me laugh really hard because I was sweating when I called you, like dripping in sweat from thinking about it.
Guest:And then I thought, oh, fuck, talk about comedic relief.
Guest:Like that's just, but my anger has never been towards people, even the horrific things we hear.
Guest:And I think this is important for people to hear this.
Guest:It's never been for the people that like, it sounds so even just graphic to say whether they, you know, the kids that dragged the, that dragged the gay kid behind the car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And understand this is said.
Guest:Don't take it out of context.
Guest:That's not really where my frustration comes from.
Guest:That is a homophobic person doing disgusting things.
Guest:Sort of makes sense.
Guest:An angry, vicious, disgusting person following that through.
Guest:But really, the person that is more vile than that, including me, that's why I'm here...
Guest:You can't make the world.
Guest:There's always going to be hateful people in this world.
Guest:It's never going to change.
Guest:It's sad.
Guest:And that should never be anyone's goal to rid the world of every hateful person because it ain't going to happen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you can ask because this could happen tomorrow.
Guest:This could be a campaign that could fucking happen tomorrow.
Guest:You can ask people that are not.
Guest:homophobic or anti-gay to start living it.
Guest:You know, just to start having follow through.
Guest:Like, because there's a lot of people out there like that, including me.
Guest:Like, if your church isn't, then don't go.
Guest:That's too much of a big, I hear people say that.
Guest:I don't agree with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a big thing not to agree with.
Guest:You might want to go to another organization.
Guest:So, you know, that's all I've always wanted to say, because I know there's a lot of people out there like that, that, you know, could give a flying fuck what anybody does.
Marc:I didn't know that they were killing Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I know friends that got married that didn't realize till afterwards.
Guest:They, you know, decent people that, you know, very open minded and went, oh, I didn't look at it that way.
Guest:We'll look at it that way now.
Guest:okay good um yeah by the way when I came in here I said I'm just gonna tell my story because no one could judge you when you just bear your soul and tell your story I did you know obviously it's hard not to go off into like getting passionate about some of this stuff but yeah I feel yeah thanks because you're right decompress here for a minute as you yeah I feel
Guest:I feel like we covered it.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I feel good.
Guest:I know I'll have other thoughts, but it's not going to be my last time to ever discuss it.
Marc:Yeah, and take a couple days to discuss this.
Marc:I'm sure you'll call tomorrow and you'll be like, can we do it again?
Marc:I outlined it.
Marc:Let me have the tape of what we did so I can...
Guest:Now, matter of fact, I told you.
Guest:I mean, I do know because I know the way I felt when I got up this morning, you know, it was not a good feeling in my stomach, even though I was going to do something good for myself.
Guest:But it was, you know, I'm going to go home and just sort of have a feeling in my stomach, but I know it's for something good.
Guest:And, you know, I feel like we got to, you know, hey, I was... I know this can't be bad.
Guest:I know this can't be bad.
Guest:I'm saying it because, obviously, I'm worried it is.
Guest:But, you know what I mean?
Guest:Not bad, but you know what I mean.
Guest:Like...
Guest:Yeah, you did this.
Guest:Even last night I thought, am I doing this?
Marc:Yes, you're doing a good thing.
Marc:It's certainly not bad, but I don't think it's an unusual feeling to be anxious and nervous about this day forward from this moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And again, I know people, I don't want anyone to, I don't want anyone feeling for me like overly, like I get if you come up to me and go, it's a good thing.
Guest:I get in my soul that it's a good thing.
Marc:And you need to know that too.
Marc:You think you're going to get our peers coming up and you go, you know that joke I did?
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh God, I fucking love you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Don't worry about that.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:Hey, unless it's a joke that shouldn't be in your act.
Guest:So yeah, I'm saying if you have a homophobic joke in your act,
Guest:Yeah, take it out.
Guest:But anyway, I'm going back to my true words.
Guest:Fuck homophobic jokes.
Guest:Any joke negative about someone.
Guest:Hey, you got a joke in your act about midgets?
Guest:I hope you fucking love it.
Guest:Because that's my thing.
Guest:Is that who you're taking on?
Guest:You can talk about anything you want.
Guest:Anything.
Guest:That's the amazing thing about comedy.
Guest:Someone goes, hey, what can I talk about?
Guest:Whatever you fucking want.
Guest:And someone goes, midgets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't think they've had enough?
Guest:And am I using the wrong term as we do everything trying to be?
Guest:Yeah, I think it's little people.
Guest:Little people, whatever.
Guest:And again, empathy, when people go, ah, they want to be called.
Guest:Yeah, I get it.
Guest:They want to be called something else.
Guest:Why don't you just fucking do it?
Guest:They've been ridiculed.
Guest:They've been, yeah, don't.
Guest:No one has to come up, oh, I said that.
Guest:Hey, I was at my podcast last night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, some of the kids that work on the show are a little younger and use, you know, the word.
Guest:And I thought, oh, tomorrow they're going to be like, oh, I don't.
Guest:I know where your soul's at.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But again, going full circle, I know where your soul's at.
Guest:Be careful if you're using that word.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, fag or homo around someone that doesn't.
Guest:Once someone knows how you feel, you say anything you want.
Guest:You can call your brother a fucking idiot because he knows you love him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If there's one person listening right now, and they got a roommate right now.
Guest:They're in college.
Guest:They got a roommate.
Guest:They can adhere this, what I'm telling them, instantly tomorrow and make someone feel good.
Guest:Don't do it too much.
Guest:But if you think someone's, like I said, if you're watching TV and something comes on and you just casually, don't ask your roommate.
Guest:Just go, why don't they fucking leave gay people alone?
Guest:Hey, you want to go out and grab a burger?
Guest:You just made someone feel real fucking good, and you didn't put any pressure on them.
Marc:Yeah, and also don't do like, oh, that's so gay.
Marc:Oh, I'm sorry because you're, oh, wait, they don't know.
Marc:What did I do?
Ha ha ha ha!
Guest:oh Mark I love Mark Maron because that would have been the one thing in the car those two two in the same area but A and B yes don't you don't you know but you know oh did it drop yet oh boy and I'm oh I should tell you I'm dating Daniel Tosh oh very good that's nice everyone's good can I leave that in yeah he doesn't care he said it's okay thanks Don I love you man bye
Marc:okay that's our show thank you for listening i know that was a lot and i am so honored that uh that todd chose me to talk to you about this or to talk to me about this and to talk to you uh it takes a lot of strength it takes a lot of courage uh it's a completely uh life-changing event in todd's life and and i hope
Marc:that it relieves a burden off his shoulders, and he can live more honestly and be more happy than he ever has been in his life.
Marc:It was a special episode, and I love Todd.
Marc:And I don't even want to do too many plugs.
Marc:But you can go to WTFPod.com and do what you need to do there.
Marc:Get your Just Coffee, get your apps, check my calendar, get on the mailing list.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:All right.
Marc:I hope some of you found some strength in that.
Marc:because it's a lot to fight.
Marc:Fear, judgment, ignorance, bullies.
Marc:It's a lot to fight.
Marc:And it's not going away.
Marc:But you can fight it.
Marc:I'll talk to you soon.
you