Episode 244 - Steven Wright

Episode 244 • Released January 11, 2012 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Marc:Really?

00:00:08Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:09Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:12Marc:Pow!

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck?

00:00:14Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Marc:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Marc:It's time for WTF!

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Marc Maron.

00:00:24Marc:I am thrilled about today's show.

00:00:50Marc:thrilled i have stephen wright here in the garage today very exciting had a great conversation with mr wright did not know him really at all before we talked he was out here in la and uh i i walked out of this garage uh when he left just ecstatic because i had no idea what it would be like to talk to stephen wright for an hour and it was it was hilarious and it was sweet and he's a good laugher he's stephen wright for fuck's sake

00:01:20Marc:So enjoy that in just a minute.

00:01:22Marc:Today, I went to the doctor.

00:01:25Marc:Don't freak out.

00:01:26Marc:Everything's fine.

00:01:28Marc:It's just that I had a basal cell on my face in 2007, and the doctor said then there's a 30% to 50% chance that you will have another one.

00:01:35Marc:So now every time I get anything on my face, if I don't know what it is, which is almost always, I've got to go to the doctor and get a small piece of my face lopped off with a scalpel to see what it is.

00:01:48Marc:So that's exciting.

00:01:49Marc:I'll find out tomorrow.

00:01:51Marc:Very exciting.

00:01:52Marc:Can't wait.

00:01:53Marc:Hate going to the doctor.

00:01:55Marc:Nothing snaps me into that mortality zone than sitting in a doctor's office.

00:01:59Marc:And then I go in and the nurse started telling me these horror stories about basal cells.

00:02:04Marc:They're not even... They don't kill you, but they spread in your skin.

00:02:08Marc:She told me about a guy losing his eye.

00:02:10Marc:She told me... And then they showed me pictures of my surgery from before.

00:02:13Marc:And I was like, oh, fuck.

00:02:14Marc:And then I left...

00:02:16Marc:not feeling very good at all and that on top of everything else i'm just busy i'm overwhelmed i gotta be i gotta be honest with you being anxious and full of dread when you have nothing going on in your life is a lot easier than being anxious and full of dread when you have a lot of going on because when you have nothing going on there's that's the ground floor it's not going to get any worse you can sit around and say jesus i'm fucked

00:02:40Marc:Nothing's going on.

00:02:41Marc:When the fuck is something going to happen?

00:02:43Marc:And that's it.

00:02:44Marc:You're as low as you can go.

00:02:45Marc:So that dread and that anxiety is consistent.

00:02:48Marc:And the only thing that can happen is something happens.

00:02:51Marc:And then you're like, well, that's good.

00:02:53Marc:So you're out of your dread and anxiety.

00:02:54Marc:But when shit is going on, it's sort of like, I hope I don't fuck everything up.

00:02:58Marc:I hope that goes well.

00:03:00Marc:Oh my God, I forgot about that.

00:03:02Marc:I'm not complaining.

00:03:03Marc:But man, I got fucking anxiety problem.

00:03:06Marc:I'm going out of my mind.

00:03:07Marc:I felt like I put on the wrong head this morning.

00:03:09Marc:Jesus, I thought I was over this shit.

00:03:11Marc:I've been compulsively eating cereal so much for the slow carb diet that worked for a few months.

00:03:17Marc:But now I've got a sugar monster that I unleashed inside of me over the holidays and I got to get that thing shackled up.

00:03:23Marc:I've been binging on cereal, doing anything I can to to get me out of my skin.

00:03:30Marc:Just binging on fucking bowls of cereal.

00:03:32Marc:I found myself, I think I actually killed what was left of my innocence the other day because I found myself just sitting there eating a bowl of puffins with vanilla soy milk perusing porn.

00:03:43Marc:There's something so childlike and comforting about eating cereal that you dump porn into that equation.

00:03:48Marc:You just killed whatever there's left of that child inside of you.

00:03:52Marc:You just, you grew that little kid right the fuck up eating cereal, looking at porn.

00:03:56Marc:What the hell is wrong with me?

00:03:58Marc:What is wrong with me?

00:03:59Marc:I'm okay.

00:04:01Marc:I'm okay.

00:04:02Marc:Did I mention I ran into Chelsea Handler at the doctor?

00:04:05Marc:She makes me nervous, man.

00:04:08Marc:I've known her.

00:04:09Marc:I've run into her for years.

00:04:11Marc:We did our Comedy Central Presents together.

00:04:13Marc:And, you know, she's just tough, man.

00:04:15Marc:I literally started bumbling over myself because I saw her at the doctor.

00:04:18Marc:She was walking out.

00:04:19Marc:And I'm like, Chelsea.

00:04:20Marc:And she's like, hey, Mark, I got to do your podcast.

00:04:22Marc:I'm like, yeah, dude.

00:04:23Marc:Yeah, definitely.

00:04:24Marc:I'd love to have you.

00:04:25Marc:And I was talking to her.

00:04:28Marc:And I've never done this before.

00:04:29Marc:But I spit my nicotine lozenge out of my mouth onto my arm.

00:04:34Marc:Out of all people I got to do that to, I got to be standing in front of Chelsea lately looking like a nervous fucking putz.

00:04:40Marc:For a second, it looked like I spit a tooth out.

00:04:42Marc:The nurse said I spit my tooth out.

00:04:44Marc:We were all comforted by the fact that it was just a nicotine lozenge, but nonetheless, it was ridiculously embarrassing.

00:04:51Marc:I spit out my candy talking to Chelsea Handler.

00:04:55Marc:What are you going to do?

00:04:56Marc:Life's funny.

00:04:59Marc:On the home front...

00:05:01Marc:I had a moment with my girlfriend, Jessica.

00:05:04Marc:I don't know if you do this, but when somebody says they love me, I generally first, before I say I love you back, I say, no, you don't.

00:05:14Marc:I love you.

00:05:15Marc:No, you don't.

00:05:16Marc:You don't.

00:05:17Marc:And they look weird for a minute.

00:05:19Marc:I go, I love you too.

00:05:21Marc:That's how I roll.

00:05:24Marc:But she threw one in on me yesterday.

00:05:25Marc:She threw a curveball into it.

00:05:27Marc:She threw a wrench into the machine.

00:05:29Marc:She said, I love you.

00:05:30Marc:And I said, no, you don't.

00:05:30Marc:She goes, don't tell me I don't love you just because you don't love yourself.

00:05:37Marc:And I laughed uncomfortably.

00:05:40Marc:And I felt revealed.

00:05:43Marc:And then I said, yeah, but seriously, you don't really love me, do you?

00:05:50Yeah.

00:05:54Guest:I've only been there since Saturday.

00:05:56Guest:Where?

00:05:56Guest:Here?

00:05:57Guest:Los Angeles.

00:05:58Marc:Wait, but you live in New York?

00:05:59Marc:No, I live in Massachusetts.

00:06:01Marc:That's what I thought.

00:06:02Marc:But here, as much as I like it, I lived in New York for years, and as much as I like New York, and even though I like it here, the fucking traffic, man.

00:06:12Marc:I mean, I know it's such a hacky complaint, but when you're looking at 45 minutes to go six miles, there's part of you that thinks, is life long enough for this?

00:06:24Guest:Yeah, there's too much time.

00:06:26Guest:Well, I know this is not an original thought, but in the car, you've got to have a... You're in one building...

00:06:34Guest:You live a lot in the car out here.

00:06:36Guest:So you've got to have a car that you love.

00:06:39Guest:It's not right.

00:06:40Guest:It's like going to a little booth for three of the hours or more of the day.

00:06:47Marc:With very little to do in that booth.

00:06:49Marc:You've got to really start making hobbies for yourself other than hating other people.

00:06:53Guest:So if someone asks you what is your hobby, you would say not hating other people?

00:06:59Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:07:00Guest:It's good, it's good.

00:07:01Guest:It's a difficult hobby.

00:07:02Marc:It's very challenging for me.

00:07:05Marc:How long have you had this hobby?

00:07:07Marc:For as long as I can remember, Stephen.

00:07:10Guest:Oh, I thought it had to do with the actual just the traffic.

00:07:15Marc:No, no, this has to do with comedy, life decisions, you know.

00:07:18Marc:resentment's a big one but that that that car becomes a hate capsule how's that chair working out that you're the first to sit in that chair in this uh in the garage it was in a different environment before it was in the kitchen not being used it's good what was the chair that was here before

00:07:34Marc:It was like an Ikea chair.

00:07:35Marc:Didn't have much soul to it.

00:07:37Marc:It was bright.

00:07:38Marc:It was an exciting chair.

00:07:40Marc:Was it wooden, too?

00:07:41Marc:No, plastic.

00:07:43Marc:These chairs have some soul.

00:07:45Marc:They have some history.

00:07:45Marc:They have some character.

00:07:47Marc:Yeah, but we bought them years ago at some store that's clearly an old wooden school chair of some sort.

00:07:54Marc:And the X spray painted it orange to give it a hip veneer.

00:07:59Marc:So what are you doing in L.A.?

00:08:00Guest:I like it.

00:08:00Guest:I like the chair.

00:08:02Guest:Well, I came here to do Craig Ferguson.

00:08:06Guest:Oh, is that tonight?

00:08:07Guest:No, it was last night.

00:08:09Guest:It's weird because people move here from New York and Boston.

00:08:13Guest:So when I'm here, I just don't do... One of the great things about being here is seeing these people that are very close to me.

00:08:21Marc:Yeah.

00:08:22Marc:I think as we get older, you know, the ones that hang on for the long haul, it's very important you check in with them.

00:08:29Marc:Exactly.

00:08:30Marc:You know?

00:08:30Marc:Yeah.

00:08:30Marc:Like a lot of people fall by the wayside, but there's usually that core crew where you're like, he's still alive, me too.

00:08:36Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:37Guest:Let's have some food.

00:08:38Guest:Yeah.

00:08:39Guest:Yeah.

00:08:39Guest:Is that point where you get like yeah, I'm I'm just entering that about Maybe it's a year and a half two years ago.

00:08:48Guest:Yeah, but it's not like a light switch, right?

00:08:50Guest:I just like wait wait a minute because people that you know are actually dying yeah, and then then skettin like There's you think of them individually, but then sometimes if you add them up.

00:09:04Guest:There's a lot of people who

00:09:05Guest:yeah they're going yeah so the ones like just like you said if you know i go out of my way now to oh go see this guy he's there well you know 10 years ago i don't feel like yeah but now well i'm going yeah you know yeah yeah and there's that it's weird i noticed like when you see somebody you haven't seen a long time but you know you've been friends forever that you know it it actually gets sweeter as you get older because there's that unspoken truth that's sort of like well we made it this far

00:09:34Marc:You know what I mean?

00:09:36Marc:And I don't know what's going to happen, but shit, it's good to see you.

00:09:39Guest:And the fact that you've known each other that long, the time adds to it somehow, even if nothing...

00:09:50Guest:Unbelievable happened during the time.

00:09:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:09:53Guest:The fact that the time went that long.

00:09:55Guest:Yeah.

00:09:55Guest:Changes.

00:09:56Guest:It adds to it.

00:09:58Guest:Yeah.

00:09:58Guest:It's like an oak tree or a redwood tree.

00:10:00Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:10:00Guest:It's getting like high and strong in the relationship.

00:10:04Guest:Yeah.

00:10:04Guest:And it's amazing when you see someone you haven't seen in six months or a year or two years.

00:10:09Guest:And then it's like you were in the living room and you went in the kitchen and came back.

00:10:13Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:10:14Guest:Those people are tremendous.

00:10:15Marc:Well, those are the best friends, where you don't have to sit there and look at each other confused, you know, what happened to you.

00:10:21Marc:Not how many friends did anything drastic, no sex changes or anything.

00:10:24Marc:So, yeah, it's all kind of percolated along.

00:10:27Marc:Like, that would be sort of hard to adjust to, yeah.

00:10:29Guest:Oh, my God, I know.

00:10:31Guest:My brother's wife works in a hospital in New Hampshire, and there was a guy, a doctor there that changed to a woman.

00:10:41Guest:And I went to see my niece in a dance recital.

00:10:44Guest:She dances all these things, and it was like 15 dances.

00:10:49Guest:And this guy, who used to be a doctor, came out dancing as a woman.

00:10:54Guest:Yeah.

00:10:54Guest:in this group and he was like in his 40s and the people he was dancing with were all like 15 yeah a doctor changed to a woman dancing with 15 year olds and i'm sitting in the audience like trying like it was like i was on acid except i wasn't it was a david lynch fellini movie combined and then magnified and the music is beautiful which makes it even weirder it

00:11:21Guest:How do people handle it?

00:11:23Guest:I don't know what they would think.

00:11:24Guest:Everyone just acted like nothing was off, but they had to have been, unless they didn't know and just thought it was a really bizarre-looking woman who was taller and the build was different than the 13-year-old girls.

00:11:42Guest:Imagine doing that on purpose.

00:11:44Guest:Imagine having a meeting like, okay, I want to do this dance thing.

00:11:48Guest:Have it all 13-year-old girls except one guy in his 50s who's been changed to a woman who was a doctor and now is he a nurse?

00:11:56Guest:No, he's still a doctor.

00:11:57Guest:Don't be judgmental.

00:11:58Guest:Just because he's a woman, now he's a nurse.

00:12:02Guest:Imagine setting that up and casting.

00:12:06Guest:People would be like, I don't see it.

00:12:12Marc:Everyone would have to say, I don't see it.

00:12:14Marc:I don't understand the point of this.

00:12:16Marc:Imagine the meaning.

00:12:19Marc:Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting with those kind of things because I'm tolerant of it and I understand it and accept it.

00:12:28Marc:And on some level, outside of having the urge to become a woman, that there's... What do you mean?

00:12:38Marc:You have that?

00:12:39Marc:No, I'm saying outside.

00:12:40Marc:There's something to be said for the idea that I've lived half my life as a man.

00:12:43Marc:What the fuck?

00:12:44Marc:I only go around once.

00:12:45Marc:Let's try the other half the other way.

00:12:46Guest:That's hilarious.

00:12:48Guest:Take advantage of the time.

00:12:49Guest:Yeah, be creative.

00:12:52Guest:Why drive one car?

00:12:57Guest:Makes sense when you think about it like that.

00:12:59Guest:Let's go.

00:13:00Marc:Let's make appointments.

00:13:01Marc:Whatever.

00:13:02Marc:I don't have a lot to do.

00:13:03Marc:What's going to change if I don't change something?

00:13:05Guest:What's going to change if I don't change something?

00:13:13Guest:That's you running for president.

00:13:15Guest:That's all you say at the mic.

00:13:18Guest:Thank you.

00:13:20Marc:What's going to change if I don't change something?

00:13:22Guest:That's as deep as those idiots.

00:13:26Guest:They're like cliché.

00:13:27Guest:Write whole books.

00:13:29Guest:The American people want things to change now.

00:13:34Guest:You've been saying that for 200 years.

00:13:37Guest:Why even say it?

00:13:39Guest:It's like saying the sun is going to come up.

00:13:42Guest:And if I'm elected, it'll be brighter.

00:13:45Guest:Fuck you.

00:13:45Marc:But you know, I don't know.

00:13:46Marc:It's hard sometimes.

00:13:47Marc:The weird thing when you deal with something like that, where you look at someone who's become a woman, transgender, whatever.

00:13:53Marc:You know, I'm cool with it, but I don't think it should be inappropriate to maybe laugh a little to yourself.

00:13:59Guest:How can you not laugh?

00:14:01Guest:I mean, how, you know, with this political correctness as, you know, how can you, I mean, how, you can be respectful.

00:14:11Guest:I'm not, I'm not.

00:14:12Guest:It's jarring.

00:14:13Guest:It's a natural response.

00:14:15Guest:It doesn't mean we don't like you.

00:14:16Guest:It's jarring.

00:14:16Guest:It's like doing a giraffe with a short neck.

00:14:18Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:19Guest:You would comment on it.

00:14:20Guest:Yeah.

00:14:21Guest:No, I don't think it's ridiculous.

00:14:22Guest:Do you think some people would think that making fun of that guy would be wrong?

00:14:26Guest:Do you think some actual people hearing this would think, oh, that's... Absolutely.

00:14:32Marc:I'm going to get two or three emails from transgender people, from people who have gone one way or the other or halfway to one or the other, who are going to say, you know, it doesn't make it any easier for us when you guys put us aside like that or don't respect our choices.

00:14:50Guest:I don't give a shit what they do.

00:14:52Guest:It's funny.

00:14:54Yeah.

00:14:55Guest:I don't care.

00:14:56Guest:Yeah.

00:14:57Guest:I'm going to the circus and like, that clown's not tall enough.

00:15:01Guest:Let's get out of here.

00:15:02Guest:I don't care.

00:15:03Marc:Yeah, right.

00:15:04Marc:Well, that's a good point.

00:15:05Marc:It's not that we care.

00:15:06Marc:We're not really judging.

00:15:08Marc:But it's going to make you laugh a little.

00:15:10Guest:It has to because you're born and then you grow up and they put the rules in your head.

00:15:15Guest:They pour the cement for years and years and years and years and years.

00:15:19Guest:And then this guy goes out.

00:15:21Guest:Outside the box.

00:15:22Guest:Goes there.

00:15:22Guest:Extremely out.

00:15:23Guest:And like does that.

00:15:25Guest:You know, that's why cartoons are funny because, you know, a bird is killing a guy and then becomes alive again.

00:15:31Guest:That's why it's funny because that doesn't really happen.

00:15:33Guest:Right.

00:15:33Guest:And that doesn't really happen other than it happens.

00:15:36Guest:Well, now it can happen.

00:15:37Guest:Cartoons are real.

00:15:39Guest:That's the bottom line.

00:15:40Guest:That's the conclusion.

00:15:43Guest:They should be all of our goals.

00:15:45Guest:Yeah.

00:15:47Guest:To change is like this.

00:15:48Marc:Sure, we can now.

00:15:49Marc:We have the technology.

00:15:51Marc:We can do anything.

00:15:53Marc:Yeah.

00:15:54Guest:It's good.

00:15:55Guest:It's like a spaceship.

00:15:56Marc:It's good.

00:15:57Marc:The garage is a spaceship sometimes.

00:15:59Marc:What part of Massachusetts you live in still?

00:16:01Guest:I live in Carlisle, Massachusetts, which is about 40 minutes outside of Boston, Cambridge.

00:16:07Guest:I don't even remember.

00:16:08Guest:Oh, okay.

00:16:09Guest:Near Concord.

00:16:10Guest:Oh, yeah, okay.

00:16:10Guest:Kind of in the trees.

00:16:11Guest:On the two?

00:16:11Guest:Yeah, right out the two.

00:16:14Guest:When the two makes that big corner, you don't take that.

00:16:17Guest:You go straight right through Concord Center and then out the other side.

00:16:20Guest:Then there's Carlisle.

00:16:21Guest:Yeah.

00:16:21Guest:I wanted to be around nature more.

00:16:24Marc:And does that help you?

00:16:25Guest:Yeah, I love it.

00:16:26Guest:I love it.

00:16:27Guest:Because I lived here in L.A., and I lived a long time in Boston, a long time in New York City, and then L.A.

00:16:33Guest:again.

00:16:33Guest:And then I would go to Rhode Island in the summer to Block Island, and that's where nature started to really affect me.

00:16:42Guest:Just being around it was so comfortable and soothing.

00:16:46Guest:And then I was going to leave L.A.

00:16:48Guest:and go back to Massachusetts because I wanted to go home to New England, and I thought, well, I'm not going to move to Boston.

00:16:54Guest:get this nature that I get on Block Island where I really live.

00:16:59Guest:And do you just, what, do you take a walk?

00:17:01Guest:No, I just, it's just.

00:17:03Guest:You sit outside?

00:17:03Guest:I have a bike, I have a racing bike, a road bike.

00:17:06Guest:Yeah.

00:17:06Guest:That I ride every day.

00:17:08Guest:But just, you know, for like an hour.

00:17:10Guest:Right.

00:17:10Guest:Just seeing, just seeing.

00:17:12Guest:Like, remember when I came here and I said to you that you just felt, I felt a relief here just from this, where you live up on this hill.

00:17:20Guest:Yeah.

00:17:21Guest:Here, away from the city.

00:17:22Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:22Guest:So it's not, you don't have to actually go do anything.

00:17:25Guest:Yeah.

00:17:26Guest:It's the feeling.

00:17:26Guest:It is, right?

00:17:27Guest:Yeah, it's like.

00:17:28Guest:It's quiet.

00:17:30Oh, oh.

00:17:30Guest:And then I go to the airport, and then I go to cities, and then I come back.

00:17:36Guest:So it's like, if I didn't go anywhere, I'd go insane.

00:17:40Guest:But I love the back and forth.

00:17:42Marc:Yeah, well, you're in that rare position where you are a singular voice.

00:17:48Marc:You're Stephen Wright, and you do your... I remember the first time

00:17:53Marc:Like years ago, like everybody else, I always loved your comedy.

00:17:57Marc:And I knew you started in Boston.

00:17:59Marc:I mean, I was at the Ding Ho just before it closed.

00:18:02Marc:Oh, really?

00:18:02Marc:When I was in college, I started doing open mics.

00:18:05Marc:And it was still there.

00:18:06Marc:Oh, wow.

00:18:07Marc:It was after you, though.

00:18:08Marc:This was 83.

00:18:10Marc:83?

00:18:11Marc:must have been it was probably probably 85 ish is that possible i don't know that it went that long well then i must have been because i remember doing i remember doing open mics with jimmy tingle uh ron and bob and ron oh bob and ron fantastic yeah bob and ron bumper comics here in l.a doing

00:18:31Marc:shows sure no i see yeah ron lynch is a is a is a fixture on the world of comedy uh who else was there simply fred uh lenny clack was still you know around you know so i i knew that whole thing and uh but like i remember like knowing you started there and then i was talking to mike clack

00:18:52Marc:And he said, like, I remember because I was young and he said, yeah, I was just hanging out with Stephen Wright and, you know, we were partying a little bit, talking.

00:19:00Marc:And, like, in my mind, I'm like, he goes out?

00:19:06Guest:What do you mean?

00:19:06Guest:Like, don't go have a beer or something?

00:19:08Marc:You talk to that guy?

00:19:09Marc:You know?

00:19:11Guest:Like, I couldn't move you into the world of people at that time.

00:19:17Guest:Because you had me as this comedian, you mean?

00:19:19Marc:Well, yeah, well, you were Stephen Wright.

00:19:20Marc:You were your own planet.

00:19:22Guest:I don't know if he mingles well with that.

00:19:26Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:27Guest:That's hilarious.

00:19:29Guest:It's funny.

00:19:31Marc:You know, because I didn't know, because you have a very specific way of thinking and a specific pace of things.

00:19:38Marc:I certainly couldn't just see you sitting there with my clock.

00:19:43Guest:I get it.

00:19:43Marc:Having a beer.

00:19:45Guest:Because you had that one version of me drilled into your head with the abstract jokes and that way of talking and everything.

00:19:52Guest:Right, right.

00:19:54Guest:I never knew anything.

00:19:54Guest:You couldn't move it over.

00:19:55Guest:Right.

00:19:56Guest:That's hilarious.

00:19:57Guest:That's funny.

00:19:59Guest:Oh, I had so much fun with those guys.

00:20:01Guest:I still see Lenny Clark.

00:20:02Guest:I see Mike Clark at Giggles.

00:20:04Guest:I see Mike Donovan sometimes.

00:20:07Marc:Mike Donovan!

00:20:07Guest:One of the greatest comedians of all time.

00:20:10Marc:Oh, my God.

00:20:11Marc:But the ding-ho.

00:20:12Marc:What I want to know is, like...

00:20:14Marc:Because the story I heard was that you came out of nowhere and you were this guy that had this completely original voice and instantly got the Tonight Show at a fluke.

00:20:25Guest:I heard that.

00:20:26Marc:What was his name?

00:20:28Marc:Peter LaSalle.

00:20:30Marc:Peter LaSalle was visiting his kid.

00:20:32Guest:Yeah, what happened was someone wrote, a freelance writer wrote an article about the Ding Ho because it was half Chinese restaurant, half comedy club.

00:20:42Guest:So this guy writes this article, and it goes in the LA Times.

00:20:46Guest:I don't know why it goes...

00:20:47Guest:Peter LaSalle, who was the producer of The Tonight Show, sees the article, thinks it's interesting.

00:20:53Guest:And then later, many months later, he's going to take a summer trip east to Massachusetts and New York to look at colleges because his kids are going to get out of high school.

00:21:02Guest:So they go on this summer trip.

00:21:04Guest:And he remembers the article.

00:21:05Guest:He remembers the club.

00:21:06Guest:So he goes to the club.

00:21:08Guest:And for me, everything changed.

00:21:13Guest:Like three weeks later, I was on The Tonight Show.

00:21:16Guest:It was like a fairy tale.

00:21:18Marc:How long had you been doing comedy at that point?

00:21:19Marc:Three years.

00:21:21Marc:What was your background?

00:21:23Marc:Were you always this guy as a kid?

00:21:26Marc:I mean, where'd you grow up?

00:21:27Guest:I grew up in Burlington, Massachusetts, which is like two towns over from where I live in Carlisle.

00:21:33Guest:Yeah.

00:21:34Guest:It was in the suburbs.

00:21:35Guest:Yeah.

00:21:35Guest:It was a regular suburb.

00:21:36Guest:It was rural, too.

00:21:37Guest:When I was there, it was rural, and then it got more and more built up.

00:21:41Guest:Right.

00:21:41Guest:But, you know, Little League, skiing in New Hampshire.

00:21:46Guest:Yeah.

00:21:47Guest:Going to Florida to visit family, and it appeared to be, you know, it seemed normal.

00:21:52Guest:Apparently, it wasn't completely normal.

00:21:55Yeah.

00:21:55Guest:Well, I mean, to think all that stuff up, I'm not saying that, I don't know.

00:22:04Guest:It was all normal.

00:22:05Guest:How many sisters and brothers you got?

00:22:06Guest:I have two brothers and one sister.

00:22:08Guest:And your family, your parents were married and everything?

00:22:10Guest:Yeah, they were married and we're in the suburbs and he had a very working class.

00:22:17Guest:My father had this weird change.

00:22:20Guest:He went to... No, right.

00:22:21Guest:He's still your father and not mommy too?

00:22:25Guest:He worked for a company that tested the stuff that went on the Apollo.

00:22:32Guest:They would put these cameras through these tests, and it was in the same town we were living in.

00:22:38Guest:Yeah, the people that made the cameras?

00:22:40Guest:They didn't make them, but they sent them there, and they would drive them through these incredible tests to make sure they would be able to take it.

00:22:47Guest:So your dad just sat around throwing cameras in the air?

00:22:51Guest:Still takes a picture.

00:22:53Guest:Take a picture and then come home.

00:22:57Guest:It was good.

00:23:02Marc:I liked growing up there.

00:23:03Marc:In Florida, you went to Florida to visit your grandparents and stuff?

00:23:06Marc:My cousins.

00:23:07Marc:That might have been what done it.

00:23:09Marc:Florida can take a toll on a person.

00:23:11Marc:You think so?

00:23:12Marc:It's fucking bizarre down there.

00:23:15Marc:Have you been there lately?

00:23:16Marc:I don't know why.

00:23:17Marc:I've been here a year ago.

00:23:19Marc:I can't figure out why, but you know, people sort of write it off as like old people or whatever, or rednecks or whatever, but you get down there in some areas around Miami, I drive in the streets, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here?

00:23:31Marc:It's like barely controlled chaos.

00:23:33Marc:It's the most densely populated fucking state I've ever been in.

00:23:37Marc:It's never ending malls and condos.

00:23:39Marc:And it's just old people that, there's a lot of old people that are like, I wasted my life.

00:23:43Marc:Let's fuck.

00:23:44Marc:You know, and then there's like, you know, a lot of Latinos and then there's hillbillies.

00:23:49Marc:It's just like, I just, and it's always warm.

00:23:52Marc:I just feel like people are down there.

00:23:54Marc:They're having a really good time.

00:23:56Marc:Maybe that's what frightens me.

00:23:57Guest:It just keeps going constantly.

00:23:59Marc:Yeah.

00:23:59Guest:It never stops.

00:24:00Guest:It's like, you know, the United States is so big.

00:24:03Guest:It's called one thing, the United States, but it's like five, seven different countries.

00:24:08Guest:Oh, at least.

00:24:09Guest:Think of Florida to New England.

00:24:12Guest:It's totally different.

00:24:13Guest:New England to Colorado, the Northwest, Seattle and Oregon, and California.

00:24:19Guest:It's all called one thing.

00:24:21Marc:Yeah, and there are some states that are very angry about that thing.

00:24:24Guest:still but like when was the moment where you wrote down the one thing like i mean i don't know what you were heading for like you went did you go to college yeah i went to a community college for two years did you have a plan i i wanted to be a comedian since i was about 14 or 15 years old who put that in your head well my my brother my older brother

00:24:47Guest:He was in charge of the TV.

00:24:50Guest:Me and him would be up.

00:24:52Guest:Everyone else would be asleep.

00:24:53Guest:And he liked Johnny Carson, so we had to watch Johnny Carson.

00:24:58Guest:I didn't even know of it.

00:25:00Guest:So I watched it because he watched it.

00:25:02Guest:And then I fell in love with it.

00:25:04Guest:And I was amazed by him.

00:25:08Guest:Just him.

00:25:09Guest:So classy.

00:25:10Guest:So funny.

00:25:11Guest:It was my introduction to a guy coming out

00:25:16Guest:And by himself, making the people laugh.

00:25:19Guest:And the people he had on, like when I was first starting watching it, like Robert Klein, David Brenner, and Pryor, and Carlin, of course.

00:25:30Guest:So that got in my head like, okay, this is amazing.

00:25:36Guest:And then there was another thing that made me want to do it.

00:25:39Guest:I would listen to the Bruins.

00:25:40Guest:It was during the Bobby Orr days.

00:25:43Guest:Ahem.

00:25:44Guest:And I had a radio in bed with me, and I would listen to the games.

00:25:47Guest:And one night I stumbled on this radio show in Boston where this guy played two comedy albums every Sunday night.

00:25:55Guest:He would play a cut from one and a cut from the back and forth until we played two.

00:26:00Guest:So then I started listening to that every Sunday in bed, like nine at night.

00:26:05Guest:And I'm watching The Tonight Show religiously, and I'm seeing the communities.

00:26:09Guest:I'm hearing this.

00:26:10Guest:of comedy albums that this guy had.

00:26:13Guest:The guy affected my life.

00:26:14Guest:I think his name is Kenny Mayer.

00:26:16Marc:Yeah.

00:26:17Guest:And you'd sit there in your bed laughing to yourself?

00:26:19Guest:Well, I don't remember actually laughing, but I remember thinking, oh, I like that.

00:26:24Guest:I like that.

00:26:25Guest:No, I don't really like that.

00:26:27Guest:I was studying it without knowing it.

00:26:29Guest:Right.

00:26:29Guest:And my favorites were Woody Allen and George Carlin.

00:26:33Guest:You know, Woody's an album that he made before he went to movies.

00:26:36Guest:Sure, it was that one record.

00:26:38Marc:Stand-up years, it's a double record.

00:26:39Marc:Yes, it's a double record.

00:26:40Marc:So when you went to the community college, you didn't start doing open mics yet.

00:26:47Guest:No, see, to be a comedian was what I wanted to do, but part of me thought, that's never really going to happen.

00:26:54Guest:But part of me thought, I want it to happen.

00:26:56Guest:So I had to do two things.

00:26:58Guest:I had to take care of myself as if that wasn't going to happen.

00:27:01Guest:So I went to community college for liberal arts, and I took a year off, and then I went to Emerson College thinking they had a big mass communication thing, and I thought if I could...

00:27:16Guest:Now my goals were overlapping.

00:27:19Guest:I thought if I could be a guy on the radio, be funny on the radio, somehow I would go to the stage.

00:27:26Guest:I had no idea how.

00:27:28Guest:You wanted to be the broadcaster.

00:27:30Guest:Yeah, I'd be a funny guy in there playing the records, doing whatever he wants, and then I could go to the stage.

00:27:35Guest:So...

00:27:37Guest:But, I mean, my father told me to just go to college for anything because it'll be better in the long run.

00:27:44Guest:Because where he worked, he didn't go to college.

00:27:48Guest:And guys would get paid more than he did because they went to college, even though they were doing the same thing.

00:27:54Guest:Right.

00:27:54Guest:So I had these two things going of...

00:27:57Guest:taking care of myself one way, but it was matching up with being funny on the radio and this fantasy.

00:28:04Marc:Did Quentin Tarantino know that you wanted to do that when he cast you as a DJ?

00:28:09Guest:Know that I wanted to do what?

00:28:10Guest:Be a DJ?

00:28:11Guest:Oh, I don't know.

00:28:13Guest:I probably told him.

00:28:15Guest:I don't remember really.

00:28:16Marc:Yeah, that's funny.

00:28:18Marc:So, all right, so Emerson at that time, I mean, you're a little, I'm trying to figure who your generation was because I know there was later, a little after you, a lot of guys went there.

00:28:27Marc:I know that Leary went there, Eddie Brill went there, David Cross went there, I think Laura Keitlinger went there.

00:28:33Marc:Were there any guys that were there doing stand-up?

00:28:36Guest:I was there with Dennis Leary.

00:28:41Guest:I came there.

00:28:42Guest:They were like freshmen, and I was a junior because I came from the community college.

00:28:46Guest:So all my friends were...

00:28:48Guest:Freshman.

00:28:49Guest:Right.

00:28:50Guest:And Dennis Leary was there.

00:28:51Guest:Eddie Brill was there.

00:28:53Guest:Mario Cantone was there.

00:28:55Guest:Lauren Dombrowski was there.

00:28:59Guest:Lauren Keitlinger came after.

00:29:01Guest:Who was the other guy that you said?

00:29:02Guest:Cross went for a couple years.

00:29:04Guest:He went after.

00:29:05Guest:And I was there when Dennis Leary and Eddie Brill started the Emerson Comedy Workshop, which was like a sketch thing.

00:29:12Guest:Right.

00:29:14Guest:And that was hilarious.

00:29:15Guest:I would go and watch it, and it was hilarious.

00:29:17Guest:They were just fantastic.

00:29:19Guest:Did you do any?

00:29:20Guest:No, I didn't do any.

00:29:21Guest:Did they know you at that time?

00:29:22Guest:Yeah, as buddies.

00:29:24Guest:Right.

00:29:25Guest:But they didn't even know I wanted to do stand-up.

00:29:28Guest:I kept it as a secret to myself.

00:29:32Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:32Guest:Like only like two people knew.

00:29:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:35Guest:Because I was superstitious.

00:29:37Guest:I thought if I'd go around saying, I want to be a comedian, that it wouldn't happen.

00:29:40Guest:Right.

00:29:41Guest:And when was the moment where you made it happen?

00:29:46Guest:Well, I got out of Emerson, and then I went out west for several months.

00:29:52Guest:I was out in Reno and Colorado.

00:29:54Guest:Doing what?

00:29:55Guest:Shoveling snow off rooftops in Colorado so the buildings wouldn't cave in.

00:30:00Guest:How'd you get that gig?

00:30:02Guest:Well...

00:30:04Guest:I applied in 1969, and then there was an opening.

00:30:10Guest:Finally, the job came up.

00:30:11Guest:Oh, man.

00:30:13Guest:I knew a guy who was going to Boulder, Colorado, went out there for no reason to hang out with him, and then there was two guys he knew were going to...

00:30:23Guest:aspen for no reason and we're in aspen and we meet this guy who from connecticut who was a construction guy and he was overseeing these roofs they were putting on the buildings that were at the bottom of the ski slopes yeah but he was our age and we're in a bar you know we're 23 and he's 23 but he's in charge and they gave him this really nice condo to live in by himself right

00:30:45Guest:Right.

00:30:45Guest:While he did his job.

00:30:47Guest:And so the first, he invited us.

00:30:49Guest:We moved in the next day.

00:30:50Guest:So we're living at the bottom of the mountain.

00:30:53Guest:Yeah.

00:30:54Guest:In this great place.

00:30:56Guest:You can see the ski lift.

00:30:57Guest:And then I heard scraping one day.

00:30:59Guest:I heard scraping outside the door.

00:31:00Guest:And I opened it.

00:31:01Guest:And there was a guy, a kid, shoveling.

00:31:04Guest:I said, why are you doing this?

00:31:06Guest:Why are you shoveling the walk?

00:31:08Guest:Oh, I work for that guy over there.

00:31:10Guest:Oh.

00:31:11Guest:So I went over and we got jobs.

00:31:14Guest:Yeah.

00:31:14Guest:That was it.

00:31:16Marc:So it was just a bunch of 23 to 25-year-old guys, like, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do.

00:31:22Guest:It's Aspen.

00:31:22Guest:I went there with $80.

00:31:24Guest:Yeah.

00:31:25Guest:But you're not, really, literally $80.

00:31:28Guest:But I'm not thinking, oh, my God, I only have $80.

00:31:31Guest:Yeah.

00:31:31Guest:At that time, your brain is wired, like, well, okay.

00:31:34Guest:That's good.

00:31:35Guest:That's good.

00:31:36Marc:Get some beers, bag of weed, I'm all good.

00:31:40Marc:Exactly.

00:31:41Exactly.

00:31:41Marc:What year was that?

00:31:43Guest:You remember?

00:31:43Guest:79.

00:31:44Guest:And then what, you ended up in Reno too?

00:31:47Guest:Yeah, because these same guys I was with in Aspen.

00:31:53Guest:They were going to Reno.

00:31:54Guest:Yeah, they knew.

00:31:55Guest:These guys I knew were from Vermont because they knew the guy.

00:31:59Guest:I don't know how they knew the guy from Scarsdale.

00:32:02Guest:So we meet in Boulder.

00:32:04Guest:Then the Vermont guys and me go to Aspen, and we're there like a month.

00:32:08Guest:And then they say, now we're going to go visit our friend who lives in Reno.

00:32:12Guest:So I just go with them.

00:32:14Guest:And the three of us go.

00:32:15Guest:And you're that age, and you knock on the door and say, hey, how are you?

00:32:18Guest:And you just move in.

00:32:20Guest:They don't say, well, I'll help you find a place.

00:32:25Guest:You know, your brain is different then.

00:32:27Guest:Yeah.

00:32:28Guest:So I'm living in Reno.

00:32:31Guest:With a bunch of other dudes.

00:32:33Guest:Yeah.

00:32:33Guest:Whatever.

00:32:33Guest:Absolutely no reason other than they knew this guy from Vermont.

00:32:41Yeah.

00:32:43Guest:What'd you do up there?

00:32:44Guest:Oh, I had three jobs there.

00:32:48Guest:First job I had was in Fitzgerald's Casino, and I walked around and gave change out.

00:32:54Guest:Yeah.

00:32:56Guest:I walked through the slot machines with a belt with all the money.

00:33:00Guest:Yeah.

00:33:00Guest:And I had the midnight to eight in the morning shift.

00:33:04Guest:You're the night guy.

00:33:05Guest:The night guy with the change belt.

00:33:07Guest:And I liked it.

00:33:08Guest:I liked it.

00:33:10Guest:I don't know why I liked it.

00:33:13Guest:Well, maybe I grew up in New England, and now I'm in a casino in Reno.

00:33:17Marc:Well, there's also a lot of sadness, and there's definitely a vibe to that.

00:33:19Marc:I imagine that shift at around four in the morning is not what anyone would say is a happy place.

00:33:28Guest:Those are the times when I would jot down my memoirs between four and five in the morning in Fitz Charles in Reno.

00:33:36Guest:Because I knew that if I went by what you're saying, the book would go in a different direction if it was written during that time.

00:33:45Guest:And then I, then I, uh, my brother was, I had a great time.

00:33:49Guest:Yeah.

00:33:50Guest:I went and saw live music, went out.

00:33:52Guest:Comedy?

00:33:53Guest:No, I didn't see any comedy.

00:33:55Guest:Went to, went out to, drove out to the desert with these guys, walked around in the desert high, just throwing rocks at trains.

00:34:03Guest:Yeah.

00:34:03Guest:Like a freight train would come by.

00:34:05Guest:Sure, sure.

00:34:06Guest:And it's surreal.

00:34:07Guest:Yeah.

00:34:07Guest:It's totally surreal.

00:34:08Guest:Throw a rock at a train, laugh your ass up for half hours.

00:34:13Yeah, laugh your ass up.

00:34:13Guest:Imagine if you could get that pleasure now.

00:34:16Guest:Oh, God.

00:34:20Marc:It's different now.

00:34:21Marc:Yeah, we can't get off the train.

00:34:26Marc:We're on the train looking at kids throwing rocks at the train.

00:34:28Guest:Look at those assholes.

00:34:30Guest:Oh, I wish I was there.

00:34:31Guest:Jesus, I can't believe these people.

00:34:33Marc:All right, so then Reno ends.

00:34:36Guest:Well, what happened was my brother got a call that he was going to get married, so I had to go back to the wedding.

00:34:42Marc:Wait, someone called him and said he was... No, they called me.

00:34:45Guest:Oh, your brother called you.

00:34:48Guest:Yeah, he's getting married in like three years.

00:34:49Marc:I thought you said someone called your brother and said, you're getting married.

00:34:51Marc:Told him to get married.

00:34:52Guest:Yeah, it's time.

00:34:53Guest:And just by the tone of the guy's voice, he did.

00:34:55Guest:He went out and got married.

00:34:57Guest:And it lasted.

00:34:59Guest:It's amazing.

00:35:00Guest:Yeah, it's a romantic beginning.

00:35:02Guest:Okay, so you go back to... Well, I parked cars at Harrah's in Sahara to make enough money.

00:35:09Guest:Yeah, I had two full-time jobs for like a week and a half, so I could get enough money to go back for the week.

00:35:15Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:16Guest:So I parked cars.

00:35:17Marc:Yeah.

00:35:17Marc:How was that?

00:35:18Marc:Did you find anything good?

00:35:19Guest:Well, they gave... Did you have good tips?

00:35:21Guest:I don't remember, but they would give...

00:35:24Guest:Whoever was the main performer there, they would lend them a Rolls Royce.

00:35:28Guest:So Dionne Warwick was there.

00:35:30Guest:And they told me, the guy said, go get the Rolls Royce.

00:35:33Guest:So I go for Dionne Warwick.

00:35:35Guest:So I went out and I drove it up front.

00:35:37Guest:And then I continued getting regular cars for people.

00:35:40Guest:And it went on and on for like 40 minutes.

00:35:42Guest:And then Dionne Warwick came out with like five people with her.

00:35:46Guest:And I went up to her and with a total straight face.

00:35:49Guest:I was kidding, but she didn't know I was kidding.

00:35:52Guest:Yeah.

00:35:53Guest:I said, where have you been?

00:35:54Guest:I've had this car out here for 45 minutes.

00:35:57Guest:And she's looking at me like, how dare you talk to me?

00:36:01Guest:What the hell is this?

00:36:03Guest:And she just said something to me and I just walked away.

00:36:06Guest:And you knew it was time to go.

00:36:09Guest:That was the end of it.

00:36:11Guest:So you went back to... So I went back for the wedding.

00:36:14Guest:And moved in?

00:36:15Guest:I went back to Massachusetts, and that's when I heard the comedy club was there.

00:36:21Guest:So then I thought, well, I have to try this thing.

00:36:25Guest:No, the comedy connection.

00:36:26Marc:Oh, the connection down on Warrington Street?

00:36:29Guest:Yeah.

00:36:29Guest:It's a nice little club.

00:36:30Guest:It was.

00:36:31Guest:So I thought, now, since... I didn't... Okay, I don't have to go to New York or L.A.

00:36:38Guest:There's a club right here.

00:36:40Guest:Yeah.

00:36:40Guest:So I went down and watched a show, and I was blown away.

00:36:44Guest:Who was on it?

00:36:45Guest:I can't remember.

00:36:46Guest:Oh, that's all right.

00:36:47Guest:But those guys... I don't remember which exact ones, but they were the...

00:36:52Guest:Guys that I would, like, grow up with, join with, like, Lenny and Mike McDonald.

00:36:58Guest:Bob Sybell.

00:36:59Guest:Bob Sybell.

00:37:00Guest:Bob Sybell.

00:37:01Guest:I'm so insane.

00:37:05Guest:How are you, Mike?

00:37:06Guest:Oh, what a character.

00:37:09Guest:Yeah.

00:37:11Guest:So then I went and watched, and then I thought, and two weeks later, I'm going to go back to the open mic.

00:37:15Guest:I'm going to attempt my dream.

00:37:17Marc:Was that the first time you saw comedy live?

00:37:21Guest:No, I had seen Robert Klein like a year earlier.

00:37:24Guest:I heard on the radio he was going to be at Pass Seams in Harvard Square.

00:37:28Guest:Oh my God, that little place?

00:37:29Guest:Yeah.

00:37:30Guest:This was in 19, oh, many years.

00:37:33Guest:It was like 75.

00:37:35Guest:Yeah.

00:37:35Guest:And I went to see him and I was astounded by how funny he was.

00:37:40Guest:And I was astounded by how long he was funny.

00:37:43Guest:Like the show just kept going and going.

00:37:45Guest:And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, maybe he'll keep going, but it can't still be funny.

00:37:50Guest:How can this happen?

00:37:53Guest:And it kept going and going and going.

00:37:55Guest:And you were amazed?

00:37:55Guest:I loved him.

00:37:56Guest:I was amazed.

00:37:57Guest:Yeah.

00:37:58Guest:He was the first guy I saw.

00:37:59Guest:Did you ever meet him, spend time with him?

00:38:02Guest:Yeah, I've met him several times.

00:38:04Guest:In fact, I did a benefit with him about 10 days ago in New York for eye research, for the retina research.

00:38:11Guest:He was proud of the show.

00:38:13Guest:Did you ever share that story with him?

00:38:16Guest:Yo, I tell him every time.

00:38:18Guest:I see him.

00:38:18Guest:I've met him like five times.

00:38:20Guest:I'm getting to the point now where I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't say this to him again.

00:38:29Guest:He's an okay guy, right?

00:38:31Guest:Oh, he's a great guy.

00:38:32Marc:Loud.

00:38:32Marc:He's a big man.

00:38:33Marc:He's always right here.

00:38:35Guest:Yes.

00:38:35Marc:Yeah.

00:38:36Marc:All right, so, okay, so two weeks later, what do you do?

00:38:39Marc:You scribble some shit down?

00:38:40Guest:Or had you been writing?

00:38:41Guest:No, I hadn't written anything.

00:38:42Guest:I thought of one joke when I was shoveling roofs in Colorado, but I never... Did it make the act?

00:38:50Guest:Yeah, it did.

00:38:51Guest:It made the act.

00:38:52Guest:Did it make it all the way to the special?

00:38:54Guest:Yeah, I've been made all the way to the tonight show.

00:38:57Guest:Which was the roof shoveling joke?

00:38:59Guest:I was shoveling snow, and I thought if I was on an elevator or something, I changed it to a bus, and I was talking to a Jewish girl, and she said she was...

00:39:10Guest:I was talking to a girl, and she said she saw her psychiatrist.

00:39:15Guest:I'm on a bus talking to her.

00:39:17Guest:I said, how are you?

00:39:19Guest:Oh, I just saw my psychiatrist.

00:39:20Guest:Things aren't going well.

00:39:22Guest:What's the problem?

00:39:23Guest:Well, I'm a nymphomaniac, and I only get turned on by Jewish cowboys.

00:39:28Guest:And then she said, by the way, my name's Diane.

00:39:30Guest:And I said, hello, Diane.

00:39:31Guest:I'm Bucky Goldstein.

00:39:33Guest:Yeah.

00:39:34Guest:Written on the roof.

00:39:35Guest:Yeah, shoveling the snow just came into my head.

00:39:39Guest:Not shoveling like trying to think of a joke.

00:39:41Guest:Right.

00:39:41Guest:Just like all of a sudden.

00:39:43Guest:And I thought, I don't know.

00:39:46Guest:Maybe people would laugh at that.

00:39:48Guest:I don't know.

00:39:49Guest:So that was the only... During those two weeks, I just wrote... Tried to write jokes.

00:39:54Guest:It was the first time I tried to write jokes.

00:39:57Guest:Right.

00:39:57Guest:And then I went to the open mic.

00:39:59Guest:Two weeks later, I was scared out of my mind.

00:40:02Guest:I went up for three minutes.

00:40:04Guest:And like a third of it worked.

00:40:06Guest:Half of it worked.

00:40:08Guest:And I was disappointed because I was so naive that I thought that was horrible.

00:40:12Guest:And Mike McDonald, the comedian, great.

00:40:15Guest:He said to me, that's good.

00:40:17Guest:You never did it before, ever.

00:40:19Guest:Because half of it worked, you know, take out the other half that didn't work and then come write more and put it in and come back.

00:40:26Guest:So when I left the club, it was great because I had it in my head all these years of trying to weigh maybe to be a comedian.

00:40:33Guest:And then that night, even though it was three minutes...

00:40:36Guest:It was real.

00:40:37Guest:Yeah.

00:40:37Guest:I really did it, even though it was for a tiny amount.

00:40:40Guest:So I got all psyched.

00:40:42Guest:From Mike McDonald, I saw it as a positive experience.

00:40:46Guest:Well, yeah.

00:40:47Marc:That's great that he encouraged you.

00:40:49Marc:He's a wild guy.

00:40:49Marc:He's a great guy.

00:40:52Marc:He's great.

00:40:52Marc:American Mike McDonald, not Canadian Mike McDonald.

00:40:54Marc:Yes, American.

00:40:55Marc:Canadian Mike McDonald's a good guy, too.

00:40:57Marc:A little depressed, but he's a good guy.

00:40:59Guest:He was at Emerson, too, Mike McDonald.

00:41:02Guest:Right.

00:41:02Guest:I think he ended up teaching there.

00:41:03Marc:years later didn't he i don't know but i remember mike mcdonald because he was so wild you know and occasionally you know he would juggle i think right yeah and and then at some point he had long hair yeah and then yeah and then yeah why insurance yeah and then the tree house he had at mike's tree house that was a tv show on a on a on a small station there or something like that yeah yeah yeah yeah very nice guy had sort of a lisp and a very high energy a little edge to him a lot of energy yeah all the time he's a good guy i've ever seen him

00:41:31Guest:He was a good guy.

00:41:32Guest:Yeah.

00:41:32Guest:So he was just there?

00:41:33Guest:He just happened to be there.

00:41:36Guest:And that conversation really helped me.

00:41:39Marc:And so, all right, so you started to find this style.

00:41:42Marc:Now, like, when you went on stage, because it's interesting, you as you, you know, you're...

00:41:47Marc:You you're pretty honest to who you are on stage.

00:41:50Marc:It's just you're telling jokes, but was there nervousness because there's it like their elements when I watched I recently watched your the young comedian special with you who was that Alan King Alan King.

00:41:59Marc:Yeah, and The the intensity of the way you delivered stuff.

00:42:03Marc:When did you start to pick up?

00:42:05Marc:You know your physical timing and the pacing did that happen right away?

00:42:08Guest:It was there right from the start to some degree.

00:42:14Guest:Yeah.

00:42:15Guest:Like, they were all short jokes.

00:42:17Guest:They were abstract jokes.

00:42:19Guest:No, they weren't all... There was some more so-called normal jokes.

00:42:24Guest:Like, there was, like, two-thirds abstract-ish or half, and then normal.

00:42:30Guest:What's normal?

00:42:30Guest:Like, stories?

00:42:32Guest:I don't know.

00:42:32Guest:Just more of...

00:42:35Guest:Just not... Well, when you think of my kind of joke, it was not that kind.

00:42:40Guest:So I can't describe or give an example.

00:42:44Guest:And I was scared out of my mind.

00:42:45Guest:I mean, I talk like this anyway.

00:42:48Guest:I'm more animated.

00:42:49Guest:I'm on coffee.

00:42:50Guest:I'm not on stage.

00:42:51Guest:I'm talking.

00:42:52Guest:But I was scared out of my mind.

00:42:54Guest:So I was out there, straight-faced, scared, concentrating, saying the joke the right way.

00:43:00Guest:What's the next joke?

00:43:01Guest:Saying the joke the next... So...

00:43:03Guest:even though they're laughing, I'm taking it completely seriously because I'm nervous out of my mind to be there, and I'm trying to remember what the hell I'm saying.

00:43:15Guest:So that concentration wove itself into with the material, and then it became what I did.

00:43:22Guest:I don't have to go out there and say, all right, now I've got to act.

00:43:27Guest:I never had to go like, I better...

00:43:29Marc:act real like it just it happened out of nervousness right but you you eventually grew into it so it it didn't come off as real nervousness it was just sort of the style they never saw it as nervous they just saw me like kind of talking like this like i was in shock and when you first started doing shows i mean what what was the uh the ratio i mean were there nights where you know people didn't get it at all

00:43:54Guest:No, it was always the joke.

00:43:58Guest:It was always what I was saying.

00:44:00Guest:Right.

00:44:01Guest:They'd listen.

00:44:01Guest:Well, no, I mean, some of it would work and some of it wouldn't.

00:44:04Guest:Right.

00:44:05Guest:Some people ask me, were they thrown off by your style?

00:44:08Guest:And they don't care about anything.

00:44:11Guest:They just care about whether you're saying something funny.

00:44:13Guest:Right.

00:44:14Guest:So right from the beginning, some jokes worked, some jokes didn't.

00:44:17Guest:It was never like a whole night of one way or the other.

00:44:20Marc:Right.

00:44:21Guest:Right.

00:44:21Marc:But there was something captivating about you because you are unique.

00:44:25Marc:So either like my question was really around the point where, you know, where they going like, what's up with this guy?

00:44:31Marc:And but because of your particular and original disposition, I think people listen to you even harder.

00:44:39Guest:Well, I remember if the room was noisy, like the club was a noisy audience, that when I went on stage, I would talk even softer on purpose than I already did.

00:44:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:54Guest:And then the room would get quiet because they were concentrating on hearing me.

00:44:58Guest:Yeah.

00:44:59Guest:I don't think they were thrown off by my... If they were, I never knew they were thrown off by it.

00:45:06Guest:I always felt that they were laughing at jokes and not laughing at jokes.

00:45:11Guest:And that was that.

00:45:12Marc:Yeah.

00:45:12Marc:It was all about the joke.

00:45:13Guest:Yeah.

00:45:14Guest:It was always about what I was saying.

00:45:15Guest:There was never a point in your life where you thought, like, I'm just going to talk.

00:45:18Guest:Oh, no.

00:45:21Guest:No, no, no way.

00:45:24Marc:Does the thought of it now make you anxious?

00:45:27Guest:Yeah, it does, because...

00:45:31Guest:I've done it a little bit over the years, and it barely ever works.

00:45:38Guest:Yeah.

00:45:42Guest:The jokes were like a wall between me and them.

00:45:45Guest:Right, right.

00:45:46Guest:I was, you know, the real, real me was behind the jokes.

00:45:51Guest:And you were fine with that.

00:45:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:53Guest:I admire those guys, like Lenny Clark and Sweeney and those guys, some guy in the audience says something, and then there's 10 minutes of,

00:46:00Guest:Yeah.

00:46:00Guest:Hilarity.

00:46:01Guest:Yeah.

00:46:01Guest:It's unbelievable.

00:46:03Guest:Their minds are unbelievable.

00:46:05Guest:I have no mind like that.

00:46:07Guest:I can kid around like with you or off stage.

00:46:10Guest:Right.

00:46:10Guest:But on the stage, I have to know what I'm going to say.

00:46:13Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:15Marc:Have you ever been put in a position where you had to...

00:46:17Guest:handle a situation yeah like something happens in the audience like i like uh if like someone i don't know somebody i like comes into the show at like 15 minutes into it and everyone sees them come down the aisles and then i say oh i say uh oh this she's just getting here i'm gonna start the show all right yeah and then that gets a laugh and then i say the first beginning of the first joke like i'm really gonna do it yeah

00:46:46Guest:So there's little things that I've been forced to deal with.

00:46:51Guest:But no one's ever gone, hey, Steve.

00:46:53Guest:Yeah.

00:46:56Guest:Just for no reason.

00:46:59Guest:And what do you say?

00:47:01Guest:Most of the time I ignore them and keep going.

00:47:06Guest:I saw David Bromberg, you know him?

00:47:09Guest:Yeah, the guitar player?

00:47:09Guest:Yeah, he's a brilliant musician.

00:47:12Guest:I saw him in the bottom line in New York during the time when I was starting out doing comedy a couple of years.

00:47:19Guest:And he was playing this very quiet song, and he was telling a story, singing and telling a story.

00:47:25Guest:And the audience was annoyed, talking to each other like he wasn't almost there.

00:47:30Guest:And he kept going as if he was in a library.

00:47:33Guest:And I was astounded, and it affected me.

00:47:36Guest:I thought, I'm going to try to do that.

00:47:38Guest:Rather than giving in, I saw it as giving in to react.

00:47:44Guest:Right.

00:47:45Guest:So I would try to do that.

00:47:46Guest:And then if I, sometimes I would just say, fuck you.

00:47:49Guest:That was like, that's all I had.

00:47:52Guest:And that got a laugh.

00:47:53Guest:That would get a laugh because I hadn't sworn the whole time.

00:47:56Marc:So when you, okay, so now like the position that, going back to the ding-ho that night where Peter LaSalle finds you and a week later you're on the fucking Tonight Show.

00:48:08Marc:Yeah, like three weeks later.

00:48:10Marc:Three weeks later, you go over the set with LaSalle.

00:48:12Marc:You know, with Jim McCauley.

00:48:15Marc:Oh, he was the comedy booker.

00:48:17Marc:Right.

00:48:18Marc:And this is it.

00:48:19Marc:You must have been going out of your mind.

00:48:21Marc:You're going to meet your childhood hero.

00:48:24Guest:and what was the feeling man it was it was so surreal just going in there seeing the set it was surreal yeah you know did your brother go with you no uh two buddies and my girlfriend yeah went and it was it was it was what it was my dream to do that and then i was there and it was unbelievable johnny came in and said something to me in the dress in the makeup thing and

00:48:50Guest:He could have said, we're going to axe murder you, and then we're going to put your body in five different states probably next week.

00:48:57Guest:And I would have said, yes.

00:48:59Guest:Okay, Mr. Carson.

00:49:01Guest:I was so nervous that he was standing there.

00:49:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:49:05Guest:And then I got so nervous, I kind of got numb.

00:49:08Guest:And then Barry Kermans, a great political comedian, he told me, just go out and throw the switch.

00:49:15Guest:Just do what you were doing in the clubs.

00:49:18Guest:Just come out and do what you were doing.

00:49:20Marc:You called?

00:49:20Marc:or you talked to him before you went?

00:49:21Guest:Talked to him before I went.

00:49:22Guest:Yeah.

00:49:23Guest:So that's what I tried to do.

00:49:24Guest:And you killed?

00:49:26Guest:Yeah, it went good.

00:49:28Guest:And then did Johnny talk to you?

00:49:30Guest:Yeah, he called me over.

00:49:33Guest:When the audience started laughing at two or three or four jokes, then it was like, oh, this is the same.

00:49:38Guest:This is like being in the ding-ho, except I'm over here.

00:49:42Guest:Yeah.

00:49:42Guest:And then, so then, you know, doing the jazz comedian.

00:49:47Guest:Yeah.

00:49:48Guest:trying to ignore that it was on television, just trying to make these people... And he called me over, and I couldn't talk.

00:49:54Guest:I was in shock, and it changed my life.

00:49:58Guest:And when you met him, when you sat down on the panel... If you see the tape, I can't barely talk.

00:50:05Guest:He said, a lot of comedians don't come out of Boston, and I go...

00:50:09Guest:Well, there's a lot of good ones there and they're in my head right now.

00:50:16Marc:Yeah.

00:50:18Marc:Yeah.

00:50:20Marc:And that got a laugh.

00:50:21Marc:Yeah.

00:50:21Marc:So did you feel like, you know, that, like you are the way you are, but did you feel like, you know, people treated you like some sort of savant?

00:50:31Guest:Like that you were a little odd?

00:50:35Guest:I thought they treated me like I was smarter than I thought I was.

00:50:42Guest:It was like the compliments I would get.

00:50:45Guest:I liked them, but...

00:50:48Guest:To me, I was just a guy making stuff up.

00:50:51Marc:Right, right.

00:50:52Marc:Yeah, because you get sort of heralded as the great absurdist.

00:50:57Marc:You won a Grammy, right?

00:50:59Guest:No, I got two nominations for two different albums.

00:51:03Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:51:04Marc:I didn't win, though.

00:51:06Marc:But you've had more of an impact on stand-up comedy than most, and it's a very unique thing to create a truly authentic comedic voice, and you did.

00:51:17Marc:What's interesting to me is a lot of comedians who have a very distinct voice, they get sort of imitated a lot.

00:51:29Marc:And it seemed that yours was so unique that it almost took two generations before people started to integrate your voice.

00:51:37Marc:Because you can see it in Hedberg, you can see it in a couple other comics, but it's a big risk to use your delivery system because it's so unique.

00:51:44Marc:Do you recognize that?

00:51:46Guest:I see that people have... I had an impact on them.

00:51:50Guest:Yeah.

00:51:51Guest:I mean, I realized it about five years ago when people would tell me, that guy's saying jokes like you.

00:51:59Guest:Or I would see someone maybe seven years ago.

00:52:03Guest:And it was, like, bizarre to me that I would, you know, I'm in bed with the radio listening to the album, and I'm 15 watching The Tonight Show, so they were like that watching me, but I didn't even think of that until seven years ago.

00:52:19Guest:I was just trying to write jokes that worked.

00:52:22Guest:I wasn't thinking that 15 years later there's a guy from some, he's going to be impacted by that.

00:52:31Guest:It's bizarre.

00:52:32Guest:Right.

00:52:32Marc:It's interesting that you were able to sort of avoid that because your way of working was so personal and your personality was so unique that no one ever listens to Stephen Wright and goes, he's just doing Rodney Dangerfield.

00:52:50Marc:It's not going to happen.

00:52:53Marc:You're definitely your own thing.

00:52:54Marc:But it doesn't bother you that people are influenced, does it?

00:52:58Guest:Well, I know that I was influenced by George Carlin by talking about everyday things.

00:53:06Guest:That's what I do.

00:53:07Guest:And I was influenced by that Woody Allen album by writing jokes, writing things.

00:53:14Marc:The wild punchlines.

00:53:16Marc:It taught you not to be afraid to go anywhere you want.

00:53:18Guest:yeah like just like where how he did it so when they are doing a thing affected by me i i was affected by them like people don't they think i came completely out of nothing but i was affected by them even everyone is like music yeah yeah yeah you know yeah yeah yeah i just think that it's weird that i had an impact

00:53:42Guest:Why, because you didn't think you would?

00:53:43Guest:No, I'm not thinking of that.

00:53:44Guest:I'm not thinking of a guy 15 years old in Florida.

00:53:48Guest:I'm trying to make the audience laugh right then.

00:53:51Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:53Marc:And how often do you tour?

00:53:54Marc:Because you're also interesting and unique in the fact that your primary, still to this day, I would imagine your primary income is stand-up.

00:54:04Marc:Yeah.

00:54:05Guest:And you do how many dates a year?

00:54:07Guest:I don't really know.

00:54:09Guest:I go out like, I don't go out for like three weeks anymore.

00:54:13Guest:I go out and do like three or four shows and I come back for three weeks and go out and do three more and then come back.

00:54:20Guest:Then maybe go out and do five.

00:54:22Guest:Then come back and not do it for a month and a half.

00:54:25Guest:Then go out and do one.

00:54:26Guest:You know, it's like that.

00:54:28Guest:It's the amount where I don't get like, what am I doing out here?

00:54:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:34Marc:Where the hotel room doesn't become like a jail cell.

00:54:39Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:54:40Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:41Marc:Living on the road.

00:54:42Marc:You go through phases with it.

00:54:43Marc:At the beginning, you're sort of like, this is like another planet.

00:54:46Marc:I can do whatever I want.

00:54:47Marc:I'm going to pee in the desk.

00:54:49Marc:You know?

00:54:50Yeah.

00:54:51Marc:I don't live here.

00:54:52Marc:And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, no one knows where I am.

00:54:56Marc:Oh, I'm going to the airport.

00:54:58Marc:Yeah.

00:54:59Marc:Oh, my God.

00:55:00Guest:And how are the crowds now?

00:55:03Guest:They're good.

00:55:04Guest:Yeah?

00:55:04Guest:They're still the same.

00:55:09Guest:Try something out.

00:55:10Guest:They don't like it.

00:55:11Guest:They like it.

00:55:12Guest:Yeah.

00:55:12Guest:Same thing.

00:55:13Guest:It's right from that 30 years ago.

00:55:17Marc:And do you have the fear anymore, ever?

00:55:21Guest:No, I don't.

00:55:23Guest:I'm not afraid anymore, unless I haven't done it for like two months, and then I'm on the side of the stage.

00:55:29Guest:And by two months, I've completely, like, it's out of my head as much as it can be.

00:55:35Guest:And I'll be on the side of the stage thinking, this is insane.

00:55:38Guest:They're going to introduce me, and I'm going to go out and try to make them laugh for that long?

00:55:43Guest:This is crazy.

00:55:44Guest:How did I get myself into this?

00:55:46Guest:This is 28 years in.

00:55:48Guest:Yeah.

00:55:49Guest:After taking a two-month break.

00:55:51Guest:And then when I walk out, then it's just normal again.

00:55:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:55Guest:Because you've spent so much time out there.

00:55:57Guest:Yeah, part of you lives out there.

00:55:58Guest:But it's an abnormal thing to do, as you know, to stand in front of the crowd.

00:56:04Guest:That's just not a normal thing.

00:56:06Guest:Right.

00:56:07Guest:I'm as adjusted to it as I'm going to be.

00:56:10Guest:I'm adjusted to this un-normal thing, but it's not like it's regular.

00:56:16Guest:Right.

00:56:16Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:17Guest:It'll never be regular.

00:56:20Marc:It's just your life.

00:56:22Marc:But yeah, of course it's not normal.

00:56:24Marc:It's not normal at all.

00:56:25Guest:It's insane.

00:56:27Marc:Well, you've got to be very careful when you look at it that way.

00:56:32Yeah.

00:56:32Guest:It's so wrong of an idea when you think of it.

00:56:36Guest:Go out and try to make these strangers laugh by just things you made up.

00:56:41Guest:If someone pitched that, like if there was never any stand-up comedy, get out of my office.

00:56:46Marc:No, no.

00:56:47Marc:I'm busy making a shirt.

00:56:49Marc:You know, whatever.

00:56:50Marc:I'm working here.

00:56:53Marc:I don't have time for that nonsense.

00:56:55Marc:No, but that moment you're talking about where I've had that a lot.

00:57:00Marc:Where it's just, you know, it's what we do, so you don't really think along those lines, but sometimes when you're standing in a comedy club and you're just looking at these people sitting out there waiting, and they're like, why are they here?

00:57:11Marc:Why are they even here?

00:57:12Marc:Who would go here?

00:57:13Marc:You know?

00:57:15Marc:who would go here now they're waiting for me and then you and then there's that like that weird difference between you waiting to go on them being on stage and you're like holy fuck yeah i i know exactly you can't go there too often i think that's what that's what brings people down that realization oh yeah what the fuck am i doing overwhelming oh

00:57:35Guest:It's ridiculous.

00:57:36Guest:Yeah, your mind blocks out things so you can deal with being alive.

00:57:40Marc:Yeah, well, that's why you do so many gigs.

00:57:42Marc:Because that's how you felt when you're doing open mics.

00:57:44Marc:I mean, fuck, you remember when half the audience was gone and you'd watch them walk out?

00:57:50Marc:And you're like, oh, fuck, they're all going to be gone.

00:57:52Marc:And then you start going, it's probably better if there's only four people here.

00:57:55Marc:How bad could it be for four people?

00:57:59Marc:And then you go up for five people and three of them laugh and you're like, I did good.

00:58:02Marc:That one guy, he didn't like me.

00:58:04Marc:I don't think he liked anybody.

00:58:05Guest:That's a victory.

00:58:07Guest:Yeah, those beginning days are fascinating.

00:58:11Guest:You don't think they are because that's what's happening when you look back.

00:58:15Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:58:16Guest:When there was fewer people, I always thought it was way harder.

00:58:19Guest:Like if there was eight people as opposed to 30 people.

00:58:22Guest:Yeah, because they don't become a group mind.

00:58:25Guest:Yeah, they don't have that group thing.

00:58:27Guest:And you're in these beginning clubs that are just... It's almost like you should start... Really, you should start in a nice theater with an audience where there's no alcohol and everything.

00:58:38Guest:And that's where the open mic should be.

00:58:40Guest:And then as you get better and better at it...

00:58:42Guest:You could go backwards into a harder and harder room, right?

00:58:46Guest:So you're playing in front of eight people, but that would be normal.

00:58:50Guest:Sure.

00:58:51Guest:Instead, you put the guy out in the worst situation in the beginning.

00:58:55Guest:To fight it out.

00:58:56Guest:Yeah.

00:58:57Guest:Go walk out on that tightrope.

00:58:59Guest:Yeah.

00:59:01Marc:Just go.

00:59:01Marc:You're on.

00:59:02Marc:You're on.

00:59:03Marc:But wait.

00:59:03Marc:I think that's primarily based on the fact that I think a long, maybe 20-comic open mic is a tough theater ticket to sell.

00:59:12Marc:Come see guys who don't know what they're doing.

00:59:16Guest:Okay?

00:59:17Guest:Yeah, I never thought of that.

00:59:18Guest:I never thought of the audience, like, why are they here to see guys try to do it?

00:59:24Guest:It never entered my mind.

00:59:25Marc:Well, I think there's an element to that in comedy in general, that, you know, there's always that sort of like, I don't know this guy, he better, let's see what happens.

00:59:32Marc:You know, I think you're up against that, but once you get a name for yourself, you're not.

00:59:35Marc:They're like, you know, I saw him two years ago, let's see if he's got anything new.

00:59:40Marc:And I think that's worse.

00:59:41Marc:Yeah, that's hard.

00:59:44Marc:How's your generation?

00:59:45Marc:Good?

00:59:46Marc:Generating comedy?

00:59:47Guest:Not like before.

00:59:49Guest:I mean, I still write jokes down, but at one point, my mind was like a factory.

00:59:55Guest:It was just producing, producing.

00:59:59Guest:And then it's gone down.

01:00:04Guest:I still write, but not like in those days.

01:00:07Guest:Yeah, you got to wait for the flurries.

01:00:09Guest:Yeah, it's flurries.

01:00:10Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:11Guest:Used to pour.

01:00:12Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:12Marc:Yeah, right, right.

01:00:13Marc:So now you're just sitting around like, I'm okay.

01:00:15Marc:Things are all right.

01:00:17Marc:God, I don't write anymore.

01:00:19Marc:And then one day you'll be like, oh, it's happening.

01:00:21Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:23Marc:Yeah, it always comes back.

01:00:24Marc:Don't you think?

01:00:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:25Marc:You don't know how long it's going to last, but you better have your notebook there.

01:00:28Guest:Yeah, but you get used to that it's going to come back.

01:00:30Guest:So then you're not nervous.

01:00:32Guest:Like, you know it didn't go completely away forever.

01:00:36Marc:Sure.

01:00:36Marc:Well, I think at some point you're supposed to enjoy your life and relax.

01:00:39Marc:I mean, that's what I'm told.

01:00:40Marc:And I think that when that starts to happen, you know, some part of you is sort of like, oh, Christ, do I got to?

01:00:48Marc:I hope it comes back, but I'm OK out here, you know, and then you wait it out.

01:00:51Marc:I mean, do you find you're happy?

01:00:53Marc:You got peace of mind?

01:00:54Guest:Yeah, I love living in Massachusetts, and I love, like, I appreciate where I am.

01:01:03Guest:I'm amazed at where I went in my career.

01:01:07Guest:I appreciate it even more now as time has gone by.

01:01:11Guest:And it's like, you know, I have a living making stuff up.

01:01:15Guest:And I travel and I have a lot of time off.

01:01:18Guest:And I have, you know, close to my family.

01:01:21Guest:And I'm as content as probably I've ever been.

01:01:25Marc:Well, that's great.

01:01:26Marc:And, you know, I got to tell you, you're one of the most respected comics in the history of the game.

01:01:32Marc:And you did something truly original, which is rare.

01:01:36Marc:Yeah, thanks.

01:01:38Marc:Thanks for talking to me, man.

01:01:40Guest:Music

01:01:45Marc:So this is part two with Stephen Wright.

01:01:47Guest:I just wanted to get into your situation, like you're from Albuquerque.

01:01:52Marc:Yeah, I grew up in Albuquerque, and I started in Boston, actually, when I went to college.

01:01:59Marc:Where did you go?

01:02:00Marc:I went to BU, and I started doing open mics at Played Against Sam's, and Barry Ketz was running that place.

01:02:07Marc:Yeah, he's a nice guy.

01:02:09Marc:And at that time, it was DJ Hazard.

01:02:12Marc:who was dj henard then and uh crazy chris collins oh yeah yeah yeah yeah what a character yeah then and kenny used to host it and i remember you know it like you'd write out you put your name on that list and i'll never forget because i got to talk to kenny because i've been kind of in touch with him i haven't talked to him in years but i guess he's sober now but i i never forget like because you'd sit there and you'd be on that list and and open mic list and people would drop in and you watch the audience go away and kenny

01:02:38Marc:At that time, you know, he'd drink, he'd start drinking, and then, you know, by the end, he'd be shit-faced.

01:02:43Marc:And one time, you know, I was on the last to go up.

01:02:47Marc:And you know when you're starting out, and you're like, I'd rather not anyways.

01:02:50Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:51Marc:Maybe it's better if this doesn't happen at all.

01:02:52Guest:It doesn't happen.

01:02:54Guest:For some reason, you'll get off.

01:02:55Marc:And he got too fucked up, he forgot to bring me on.

01:02:58Marc:Oh.

01:02:59Marc:I'd waited all night, but secretly I was relieved.

01:03:04Marc:But I went up to him, I said, you were supposed to.

01:03:07Marc:He's like, oh, shit.

01:03:08Marc:Oh, fuck.

01:03:09Marc:I'm sorry, man.

01:03:10Marc:I got to go.

01:03:10Marc:You all right?

01:03:11Guest:Oh, my God.

01:03:14Guest:What stress?

01:03:14Guest:But him in particular, he's one of the funniest guys I've ever seen in my life.

01:03:21Guest:He's in the top five comedians that I've ever seen.

01:03:24Guest:He's a genius.

01:03:26Guest:So prolific.

01:03:27Guest:Unbelievable.

01:03:28Marc:There's the laughing man again.

01:03:30Guest:But you didn't do comedy in Albuquerque?

01:03:33Marc:Yeah, there was a comedy club there.

01:03:36Guest:What did you do when you would go back from school?

01:03:39Marc:Yeah, I tried.

01:03:39Marc:But you started in Boston.

01:03:42Marc:I really did.

01:03:42Marc:I started in Boston, but then what happened was I put together a team with another guy in college to audition for a Catch a Rising Star show like comedy on campus, and we didn't get the show, and we performed a little bit together.

01:03:53Marc:And then he graduated or he left town.

01:03:55Marc:And then there was one summer where I started doing it myself.

01:03:58Marc:It played against Sam's and stuff.

01:04:00Marc:And I was drinking a lot.

01:04:01Marc:And I just couldn't tell whether I was trying to be a professional alcoholic or a comedian.

01:04:08Marc:And it was...

01:04:08Marc:It was fucking miserable, and I would just wait around to do those open mics, and there were always a plate against hands and stitches sometimes.

01:04:14Marc:But then I started doing it.

01:04:15Marc:I really stopped doing it for a while because I just couldn't hack it.

01:04:19Marc:A few months?

01:04:20Marc:No, I did it solo, second to the last year of college.

01:04:24Marc:In my last year of college, I was like, I can't fucking handle it.

01:04:27Marc:And then when I graduated college, I moved to LA.

01:04:29Marc:I auditioned at the Comedy Store, and I got a job as a doorman.

01:04:33Marc:and that's when I got hooked up with Kennison and that crew, and then I started again, and then I got all fucked up on drugs, and I had to leave L.A.

01:04:40Marc:because there were things chasing me that I didn't make up on purpose.

01:04:43Marc:That I didn't make up on purpose.

01:04:46Guest:What a fantastic sentence.

01:04:50Guest:Things that were chasing me that I didn't make up on purpose.

01:04:54Guest:How long was the gap between Boston and then going back on stage?

01:04:59Marc:No, when I graduated college, I was like, I'm going to do it.

01:05:02Marc:And I'd done it here and there, but I didn't commit my life to it.

01:05:05Marc:But I always wanted to commit my life to it.

01:05:07Marc:And then when I graduated college, I did.

01:05:09Marc:So I went to LA.

01:05:10Marc:I was at the store.

01:05:11Marc:I got fucked up.

01:05:12Marc:I cleaned up, and I went back to Boston.

01:05:15Marc:And I got a job at the Coffee Connection.

01:05:17Marc:Remember the coffee connection in the garage in Harvard Square pre-Starbucks?

01:05:20Marc:They used to serve all the coffee in the French presses.

01:05:23Marc:Yes.

01:05:23Marc:So I was that guy.

01:05:24Marc:I was already bitter because I'd been hanging out with, you know, Kennison.

01:05:27Marc:So I was the guy at the cappuccino machine.

01:05:30Marc:I used to hang out with Kennison.

01:05:32Marc:You guys don't fucking know anything.

01:05:34Marc:And then Dave Cross came in, and I had met him when I was in college, and we were doing open mics like at Stitches.

01:05:40Marc:He was at Emerson.

01:05:41Marc:And he came in, and then Catch a Rising Star opened.

01:05:43Marc:And then I started in earnest.

01:05:46Marc:And I came in second in The Riot in 88.

01:05:50Marc:And then I haven't had a day job since then.

01:05:53Marc:Great.

01:05:53Marc:One way or the other.

01:05:54Marc:Fantastic.

01:05:56Marc:So you stopped, started, stopped, started.

01:05:59Marc:Just in college, but since I graduated college, it's been all comedy.

01:06:03Marc:The last job I had was, you know,

01:06:04Guest:that job i think or maybe a yeah it was probably that job isn't that great yeah so long there were some tough years but but to make a like you know to like just make a living from writing is unbelievable from making things up on purpose yeah yeah fantastic yeah so then where did you go from boston

01:06:27Marc:Went from Boston to New York, and then I stayed in New York for a few years.

01:06:33Marc:Which clubs were you doing there?

01:06:35Marc:Catch your eyes and stuff?

01:06:36Marc:Well, he would never let me on, and I hated him.

01:06:38Marc:Who?

01:06:39Marc:Lewis.

01:06:39Marc:And I still kind of do.

01:06:42Marc:But, you know, he just wouldn't put me on.

01:06:44Marc:I was too angry, too weird or something.

01:06:46Marc:And, you know, it wasn't really about making people laugh as much as it was just me getting things out.

01:06:53Marc:Wow.

01:06:54Marc:Wow.

01:06:54Marc:That's so different than what I do.

01:06:58Guest:Yeah.

01:06:58Marc:And then I used to do the Boston Comedy Club.

01:07:00Marc:He was real good to me.

01:07:01Marc:And I did the original improv before it closed.

01:07:04Marc:So that sad wreck of a place.

01:07:05Marc:It was still sort of a woman.

01:07:07Marc:Silver.

01:07:08Marc:Silver Friedman.

01:07:09Yeah.

01:07:09Marc:And then I got fucked up again, and I had to leave, so I sold my bed to the guy across the hall, and I gave all my shit to the people that sold things on the street.

01:07:21Marc:We were there a few years.

01:07:22Marc:Yeah, and then I moved to San Francisco.

01:07:24Guest:And that whole scene was happening, right?

01:07:27Marc:It was sort of arced out.

01:07:29Guest:Was that in like 89?

01:07:30Marc:It was like 90, probably 92.

01:07:33Marc:So a lot of the people that were there that came from Boston, like Mimi and Dana...

01:07:38Marc:and tomcat and bobcat and uh uh you know uh who else was there well they they paul poundstone they had sort of moved on you know so the scene was sort of uh anemic uh and uh and you know when i got there uh i within weeks of patten oswalt and a couple other people so that was really good for me like i was able to you know do the type they're very indulgent there they they reward indulgence so i was like well this is good you mean i can just talk about what i need to talk about and maybe it'll

01:08:07Marc:You got a lot of stage time in San Francisco.

01:08:11Marc:Yeah, I did all right.

01:08:13Marc:I went into the competition.

01:08:15Marc:The second year I did the competition, I came in second.

01:08:18Marc:I'm really good at coming in second.

01:08:20Marc:Then I moved back to New York and did it there.

01:08:23Marc:Wow, but the scene was still happening in San Francisco.

01:08:26Marc:It just wasn't his act.

01:08:27Marc:Right, right.

01:08:28Marc:It had a great history, but a lot of the people that hadn't defined it had left.

01:08:34Marc:Right, right.

01:08:35Marc:So I did that, and so I worked.

01:08:38Marc:That's how I really started making a living was those one-nighters that Barry Katz used to have.

01:08:42Marc:You'd drive into God knows what, and you had no idea what the setup was going to be or how fucking awful it would.

01:08:47Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:08:47Marc:That's really how I started.

01:08:49Marc:And then I hosted a TV show in 92 on Comedy Central.

01:08:54Marc:Oh, great.

01:08:54Marc:Yeah, at the very beginning.

01:08:55Marc:Was that in New York?

01:08:57Marc:Yeah, it was the last thing I wanted to do.

01:08:59Marc:But I learned how to read prompter.

01:09:01Marc:Yeah.

01:09:02Marc:but you went from the clubs in san francisco to new york and then you were playing clubs and you did that show yeah yeah and that sort of turned things around and then i ended up i stayed there for years and then i i moved out here and uh you know i destroyed a marriage and i wrote a book and then i moved out here with a girl and uh i've been here since uh 2002 and uh and this thing seems to be doing all right and the comedy's doing i just put out my fourth cd

01:09:26Marc:Wow, congratulations.

01:09:28Marc:Thank you.

01:09:29Marc:Finally, after about 25 years, people kind of know who I am.

01:09:32Guest:That's fantastic.

01:09:33Guest:This thing is so popular.

01:09:35Guest:I mean, I heard, like, a couple of years ago, I started hearing about it, and it was like, from all different types of people, like, you've got to hear that.

01:09:45Guest:You should go on that.

01:09:46Guest:You've got to go...

01:09:47Guest:I mean, the buzz is still going.

01:09:50Guest:It's great.

01:09:51Guest:Congratulations on that.

01:09:52Guest:Well, thanks, man.

01:09:53Guest:It just gets a lot of focus and respect, and I'm happy for you.

01:09:57Guest:I'm happy that you had me on here.

01:10:00Marc:Well, I really appreciate you doing it.

01:10:02Marc:A lot of people are wondering when we were going to do it, and I'm glad that you made it out this way, and I'm glad you're doing well.

01:10:08Marc:And thanks for bringing me into the interview.

01:10:10Marc:Okay.

01:10:15Okay.

01:10:16Marc:Well, I hope you feel like you know Stephen Wright a little better.

01:10:19Marc:That's our show.

01:10:19Marc:Thank you for listening.

01:10:20Marc:This is WTF.

01:10:22Marc:I am Marc Maron.

01:10:23Marc:Boomy.

01:10:24Marc:Come here, Boomy.

01:10:25Marc:Let's do this, buddy.

01:10:26Marc:Hey, Boomer.

01:10:27Marc:Hey, buddy.

01:10:28Marc:Hey, buddy.

01:10:29Marc:What's up, Boomer?

01:10:32Marc:Boomer.

01:10:34Marc:Come on, just one little meow.

01:10:35Marc:Boomy.

01:10:37Marc:Aww, boomer.

01:10:40Marc:Aww.

01:10:42Marc:Look at that.

01:10:43Marc:That was cute.

01:10:45Marc:I'm just gonna climb up on the chair.

01:10:46Marc:Alright.

01:10:47Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:10:50Marc:Kick in a few shekels.

01:10:52Marc:Get the app.

01:10:52Marc:JustCoffee.coop, of course, always available.

01:10:55Marc:Get the WTF blend.

01:10:56Marc:I get a little on the backside.

01:10:58Marc:Is that the right way to say that?

01:10:59Marc:It sounds like JustCoffee just slapped me in the ass.

01:11:02Marc:Boomer.

01:11:03Marc:All right.

01:11:04Marc:That's it.

01:11:05Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.

01:11:07Marc:Oh, Monday show.

01:11:09Marc:It is a...

01:11:10Marc:It's a first.

01:11:14Marc:Monday show is a first.

01:11:16Marc:That's all I'm going to tell you.

01:11:21Guest:Talk to you later.