Episode 236 - Kevin Pollak
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:WTF?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck a holics?
Marc:What the fuck's the bulls?
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:It is nearing Christmas.
Marc:I literally cannot look more than a few days ahead without freaking out or maybe I'm just not paying attention.
Marc:I have no idea what fucking day it is other than I know the podcast is going up today.
Marc:So it's it's Thursday, right?
Marc:Kevin Pollack is on the show today.
Marc:That is going to be a Jew off.
Marc:This will be a Jew off.
Marc:There is no doubt about it.
Marc:Some of you like the Jew offs.
Marc:I have a feeling this will be a very big Jew off.
Marc:Kevin Pollack to me represents show business.
Marc:I don't know why, but I think his love of show business that I get from him.
Marc:When I when I talk to him or when I've seen him, I just think he loves being part of show business.
Marc:And there's some he is like the he is the embodiment of all Jews from the beginning of show business.
Marc:And I mean that in a respectful and lovely way.
Marc:We'll talk to Kevin Pollack in just a few minutes.
Marc:Let's talk about this holiday season for a minute.
Marc:Do I ever use that as a segue?
Marc:I feel like that may be hold on.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Oh, oh, my God.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:I just coughed out a lung and shit my pants on the mic.
Marc:All right.
Marc:The Christmas cards, the Hanukkah cards are coming in.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you, friends.
Marc:Thank you for sharing slightly awkward pictures of your families and babies and children with me.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:I just got also a photo Christmas card from my father, who apparently is sporting a beard now, which makes me a little nervous.
Marc:I think he looks good with the beard.
Marc:He looks sort of like some kind of aggravated, bipolar Jewish cult leader.
Marc:But he's doing that thing where he seems to be shaving the top of the mustache.
Marc:So it's just this weird line of hair along the top of his lip.
Marc:I have to assume...
Marc:That my father must have been somewhere where he was inspired by a fairly anal Latino man.
Marc:Because I have not seen that particular type of beard.
Marc:The finely manicured just upper lip of hair.
Marc:And then the beard that's manicured around the neck.
Marc:That clearly implies that manicuring is going on.
Marc:I don't know where he got it.
Marc:I should call him and ask him what the inspiration for his weird upper lip hair that goes in like two estuaries into the river of beard along his jaw is.
Marc:But I appreciate the picture because I don't see him much.
Marc:And also I appreciate like I've been getting cards from people for years and I just watch their kids grow up on Christmas cards.
Marc:I don't seem to have a relationship.
Marc:Some of them I don't really know at all, but I'm on their list somehow.
Marc:And I get these just check ins, you know, and every year you kind of like, well, like the numbers are still right.
Marc:Everybody seems to have made it another year.
Marc:And this, of course, is another year where I don't send out picture Christmas cards or have children.
Marc:Or I don't know, is it inconsiderate?
Marc:I've actually sent out a couple this year because I did that promotion for that fella who makes the Christmas cards and he sent me a few.
Marc:So those are going out.
Marc:I'm going to be polite and do the right holiday thing, sending out a few Christmas cards.
Marc:What about gifts?
Marc:Do I buy gifts?
Marc:I rarely buy gifts.
Marc:I don't buy gifts.
Marc:I have nephews and nieces that I don't see often.
Marc:I should get them all a gift.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I don't get my brother a gift.
Marc:I don't get my parents a gift.
Marc:I usually get whoever is in my life most directly.
Marc:That means in my house, I will get them some gifts.
Marc:And then I will worry about those gifts and I'll try not to wait till the last minute to get those gifts and I'll try to make them unique and interesting.
Marc:But we all know the feeling of giving a gift that is rejected or clearly not the gift that they had in mind and how much that hurts the heart and the soul and creates the assumption that, man, maybe I don't really know you.
Marc:I thought you would like this.
Marc:Can't you even...
Marc:fucking pretend that you like this even for a few minutes the problem is if you're living with somebody or you're involved with somebody there's no way that they can secretly return a gift if you're giving it to somebody at work or somebody you kind of know then you're like hey if you don't like it take it back
Marc:And you can say that to the person you love or that is in your life.
Marc:Hey, if you don't like it, we'll take it back.
Marc:But when they're like, yeah, I think I might exchange this.
Marc:For what, the same thing and a different size?
Marc:No, for something completely different.
Marc:You clearly don't understand anything about me or what my tastes are.
Marc:How have we lasted this long?
Marc:Maybe I'll just return it for a cash back and get the fuck out of here.
Marc:That's a little dramatic.
Marc:Go with jewelry, subtle jewelry.
Marc:But I don't know, that's a big commitment.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Look, something happened to me last night, and I'm going to admit it to you.
Marc:It's hard for me to admit, but I think you should know that this happened.
Marc:Because something is happening in my heart.
Marc:Patton Oswalt and I are friends.
Marc:We are.
Marc:But I've been competitive with him.
Marc:I've resented him.
Marc:I've been jealous of him.
Marc:I go through this with people.
Marc:I'm not ashamed to admit that.
Marc:I'm embarrassed about it.
Marc:But I have some problem with not being completely self-involved.
Marc:I think you understand that.
Marc:But because of this podcast and because of the work I'm doing with you,
Marc:I something's happening and I don't know quite how to handle the feelings, which is interesting.
Marc:I received a screener of a young adult.
Marc:Now, obviously, when I saw the coming attractions and I saw Patton, I thought like, wow, he's got a big part in this.
Marc:And then there was the moment of jealousy.
Marc:Not unusual.
Marc:Like, wow, he's really OK.
Marc:Fucking Patton's doing good.
Marc:You know, there is a disconnect between that statement and me going good for him.
Marc:I generally look at myself but it didn't really he wasn't as bad this time I saw him on the coming attraction and he looked like he was doing pretty good in the movie in the coming attraction and I like Charlize Theron a lot I don't have as big a problem with Diablo Cody as some people do I like Reitman's kid the director I forget his first name I think he's done he's good he's got a style I liked up in the air a lot I think he's a good director Jason Reitman is it
Marc:So I get this screener.
Marc:I sit down and watch it last night and Patton comes on the screen and he's doing great.
Marc:And I literally got choked up.
Marc:I mean, it's an emotional movie.
Marc:It's a sad movie.
Marc:It deals with sad people in a very relatively honest way.
Marc:It's a relentless movie, but it's charming and it's a really good movie.
Marc:And Patton acted the shit out of it.
Marc:He did great.
Marc:And he would come on and I would find myself laughing in that weird kind of proud, emotional way that people laugh when they actually feel happy for somebody.
Marc:And also they are entertained at the same time.
Marc:I mean, knowing somebody that's in a TV show or a movie, it's a bit tricky because a lot of times I can tell.
Marc:When people are self-conscious or when they're not quite present in the role, because I know them, it happens.
Marc:And a lot of people don't see it.
Marc:I've seen people evolve, people that I know evolve into good actors, into good stand-ups.
Marc:But many times during this movie, not only because of the emotional content of the film and that I'm really pretty much a softy, I found myself, as they say in Yiddish, kvelling because of what a good job Patton Oswalt did.
Marc:It's hard for me to admit that, but he was just great.
Marc:And I want to congratulate him publicly.
Marc:Why am I choked up now?
Marc:I mean, it's ridiculous.
Marc:That I am so unable that I am that self-involved that I can't experience not only joy from someone I know and likes work, but because like I feel somehow here, here, this is what the muscle is inside of me.
Marc:That's wrong.
Marc:is that for so long, because of my, whatever, self-centeredness, narcissism, whatever, everyone else's success, I really looked at as some sort of indication that I was failing.
Marc:And I think because of this show and because I,
Marc:I've moved through some emotional problems.
Marc:I feel OK with myself.
Marc:And now this whole feeling of of pride or or or a feeling of of enjoying my my peers work is sort of new.
Marc:And my body doesn't really know what to do with it.
Marc:My like I just start kind of getting I kind of get teary when I am impressed with somebody who I know.
Marc:It moves me.
Marc:It's a big breakthrough.
Marc:And I think part of those almost tears or a couple of tears are about like, wow, this isn't about me.
Marc:And it's really good.
Marc:I feel like I've made a tremendous amount of progress.
Marc:Now, if I can just kick this Twitter addiction, I think we're going to be good.
Marc:That's going to be available.
Marc:In rehabs, this compulsive addiction to Twitter, to checking in with your email, this this need for connectivity to be received, acknowledged, seen this weird global community of immediate gratification.
Marc:of fairly shallow needs that should have been gratified when we were seven or eight maybe five years old get up bang good one bang good one bang fuck that guy bang don't engage fuck you i'm engaging bang oh that was a good one oh see i won that one oh really is that true maybe i should retweet that oh shit shit it is definitely changing endorphins
Marc:Which would mean that it is effectively a drug.
Marc:Someone forwarded me a link to this.
Marc:The National Transportation Safety Board is going to try to limit the use of portable electronic devices for anything.
Marc:That means no more talking or tweeting or texting in the car.
Marc:God, I hope they do.
Marc:And I hope it stops me.
Marc:It's dangerous and stupid.
Marc:And this is not fascism.
Marc:I mean, I've often wondered what the numbers are, and the numbers must be in.
Marc:There are numbers of people that were killed or hurt other people who got into an accident just because they had to say, just because they had to text, I'll be home in nine minutes.
Marc:I love you too.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:LOL.
Marc:Lives are lost.
Marc:Let's talk to Kevin Pollack.
Marc:Wait, before I forget, I wanted to reach out to my New England fans and people who are interested in what I do.
Marc:I am going to be appearing at the Magnus Comedy Festival in Boston at the Wilbur Theater on January 27th.
Marc:We're doing an early show, which is me doing stand up.
Marc:We've that's an eight o'clock show.
Marc:Maybe Doors at 7 or somewhere in that area.
Marc:And then after that, I believe at 10 o'clock, a WTF, a live WTF.
Marc:So far, I've got Kenny Rogerson, Tony V, Mike Donovan slotted.
Marc:More guests will be forthcoming.
Marc:That's the Magner's Comedy Festival, January 27th in Boston at the Wilbur Theater.
Marc:You can go to thewilburtheater.com for tickets.
Marc:Man, I'm glad I remembered that.
Marc:I lived in San Francisco in 92.
Marc:I moved out in 83.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There was just evidence of you in pictures.
Marc:Yeah, well, there should be only, by the way, photographic evidence of me.
Guest:You've left pictures.
Marc:I love going to the punchliner to anywhere in San Francisco where there are pictures.
Marc:Because when I started working in 89, 88, I moved there in 92, you get to go into the dressing room and go like, oh my God, these people were young once.
Marc:We weren't all born like Burgess Meredith looking 62 out of the womb.
Guest:but you did you grow up there i did i grew up uh i was born in the city uh family moved to the promise of the suburbs of san jose an hour south when i was quite young and before i had a vote yeah and then i moved back to the city the moment i could which was about 20 years old can we be honest can i jew it up for a second jews in san francisco what yeah but you're like new york style you're not san francisco style everyone thinks i'm from new york i don't know why because it's an attitude thing it's
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Yeah, it is an attitude thing.
Marc:But what, your parents from the East Coast?
Marc:Nope.
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Both born in California.
Marc:But did you get that sort of middle class Jewy upbringing in San Francisco?
Marc:Because I never could find, the Jews seem to be undercover there.
Guest:I had a suburban Jewy upbringing, very suburban.
Marc:Bar mitzvah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Maybe you had a nice band at your bar mitzvah party.
Guest:The temple was a place for social gathering.
Marc:Always.
Marc:Not a higher learning.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Well, that's because we couldn't take it seriously.
Marc:It was a different language and just learning the language was too difficult.
Marc:It was a place to hone your comedic skills.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And how to learn not to- Marry a Jew?
Marc:Marry a Jew.
Guest:That's where I was going, and thank you.
Guest:I guess Nostradamus said it first, but thank you for being right there with me.
Marc:I'm going to get mail.
Marc:What do you have against Jewish?
Guest:Why else are you doing this if not to get mail?
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I did marry a Jew.
Marc:You've never been with a Jewish girl?
Guest:I was with a Jewish girl when I was 12 and never again.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And the bar mitzvah turned anything around?
Marc:All of a sudden you were hot to the other side?
Guest:I think I brought a lovely Spanish girl to my bar mitzvah.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:I think.
Marc:That's very nice.
Marc:Maybe not.
Marc:She was something in the neighborhood.
Marc:And how did your parents handle that?
Marc:Did you get any pressure about that?
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:They don't even care.
Marc:Painfully liberal upbringing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And everyone's still alive?
Guest:I lost dad maybe 10 years ago.
Guest:Mom just flew her out for her 80th birthday.
Guest:really some kind of shindig yeah went down is she uh you know got all her marbles yeah she has all of her marbles but she's still uh uh crazy party one you know in that mom's crazy kind of way which which type of crazy jewish mom did you have uh
Marc:Harmless.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Overprotective or annoying?
Marc:Center of the sun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Universe, rather.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Where mere planets revolving around her.
Guest:Of course, yeah.
Guest:Passive aggressive in those needs.
Guest:But uber supportive from day one without being pushy.
Guest:When did you start doing stand-up?
Marc:Ten.
Marc:Ten.
Marc:At 10?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, is that really a thing?
Marc:I'm not in clubs.
Marc:No, but I mean, is that for real?
Marc:Like you said, I'm doing stand-up now.
Marc:I'm 10 years old.
Marc:The story goes... Please sit down.
Guest:Why must I be the only one standing?
Guest:I was lip-syncing Bill Cosby's first album, specifically his Noah and the Ark routine, for my own entertainment at home.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the one.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Literally...
Guest:My mom brought home the album, put it on the stereo hi-fi.
Guest:Let's compare that piece of furniture to the Nano, shall we?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Six feet and one inch.
Guest:A console.
Marc:Had the whole thing.
Marc:Did anything fold out?
Marc:Six feet wide.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Lifting up, coming out.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It was all one.
Marc:And that was just the record player.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:That's all it did.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:That's all it did.
Marc:The speakers were built in.
Marc:The thing pulled out.
Marc:And maybe there was a shelf for 10 records.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:It was just, I wish, oh God, what I would.
Guest:Do for what?
Guest:To have it now.
Guest:You can have one.
Guest:Just to set it on fire.
Guest:We can get you one.
Guest:We go to Goodwill right now in my neighborhood.
Guest:So my mom brought this record home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw my parents laughing uncontrollably for the first time.
Guest:And it was as unnerving as if they were openly weeping.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's how freaky this was.
Marc:Yeah, because all of a sudden they're humans.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're not behaving properly.
Guest:Weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then instantly somewhere in my brain it said, I want to be the cause of that.
Guest:Not in a sentence.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And wasn't even aware of it until many years later.
Guest:So as soon as no one was in the house, I would put the record on and play it for myself until I memorized it.
Guest:And there were no interactive games because this was the 40s.
Guest:So I would stand in front of this hi-fi.
Guest:uh and do something that i didn't know existed as a thing yeah to me it was just playing yeah i was lip-syncing right no one had showed me what lip-syncing was i thought i invented it so you played the record played the record stood in front of it i was the guy talking and i i did the hand gestures as if i were the guy telling the story but you'd never seen cosby just the photo on the album oh it could yeah so you didn't do it in blackface well that's not important yeah uh
Guest:I mean, it's a detail that I'd rather not.
Guest:But why sully the memory?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or the story?
Guest:Maybe once.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So my mom caught me doing this one time.
Guest:She came home from whatever early and I was horrified as if she caught me masturbating.
Marc:That's how freaked out I was.
Guest:Later that happened.
Guest:Oh, no, but she did actually almost catch me losing my virginity in my bedroom in high school.
Guest:Again, you know, we think we have these times figured out when no one's going to be around, be it for masturbation or, in this case, losing my virginity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there I am, maybe three seconds in, front door opens...
Guest:mom's foot which you know her footsteps down the hall three seconds i am out of this vagina so fast and my hand on the door right as mom's hand grabs the other side of it to turn it literally that's how fast she bolted right to my door which no one knows why so she knew something did she know the girl a mother's smell i don't know what the hell how she knew you know the girl instantly yeah sure yeah the girl i feel it coming yeah yeah yeah yeah
Guest:So did you finish?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I said, in here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she said one of those mom single word responses that says everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And then that was the end of it.
Guest:But did you finish?
Guest:Did you come?
Guest:Well, I went back to business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was a little.
Guest:Julie was a little freaked out.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That mom was in the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wasn't comfortable for her.
Guest:No.
Guest:So I knocked her out.
Guest:You know, what choice did I have?
Guest:Just so I could finish.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I said, if you can't stand this awake, you're going out.
Marc:So I thought that, you know, see, I thought the joke was that, you know, you're in her three seconds, your mom knocks, you hear your mother open the door, but thankfully you had just gotten done.
Guest:Yeah, because it was over already.
Guest:Actually, I went back, and that's what happened.
Guest:I went back, and she said, oh, no, you're done.
Guest:You did.
Guest:You finished already.
Guest:You're in the thing.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:So, no, we had to rearrange the finish at another time.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Well, mom's in the house.
Marc:Yeah, maternal interruptus.
Guest:I don't think I was erect again for days.
Marc:yeah no because the association how do you shake that it's probably deep in there now you probably haven't shaken you do shake it you do keep shaking you get until something happens again uh-huh that's what you do i think there's more pride in being caught fucking than there is being caught jerking off uh yes because at least you can blame someone else yeah oh no it was a moment it was definitely a point of pride for a while you know
Guest:It was an announcement.
Guest:I'm doing this now.
Guest:I like that.
Guest:It used to be just me.
Guest:Now, not so much.
Guest:Got the t-shirt printed.
Guest:Someone just got laid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm a stupid arrow pointing down to my dick.
Guest:So then I did that act, the Bill Cosby album, in front of the school.
Guest:First, my mom saw me do it and said, you have to do this at Passover at the Zookers, our closest relatives.
Guest:Oh,
Marc:and then that led to by the way the answer was instant yes i mean after i got over the humiliation of being caught because i was just a natural born ham it was absurd that's interesting because i always had nerves around that stuff the the idea of like uh even now if you if i were to say uh to picture myself 10 11 years old and the seders just ended people are having their coffee and some jew says
Marc:All right, everybody.
Marc:Let's go in the living room.
Marc:Kevin's going to do this comedy routine.
Marc:Is that what happened?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, first of all, the four questions had been asked.
Marc:I just felt like I got scared thinking of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Guest:The four questions had been asked.
Guest:We'd found the matzah.
Guest:Payments had been made.
Guest:Did you find the matzah?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I think I had other things to think about.
Guest:Did you open with that?
Guest:So how about this bullshit where I didn't get the matzah?
Guest:Improvising, nothing?
Guest:No, there was no talking.
Guest:I lip-synced Cosby's act.
Guest:I did this act for six years without talking.
Guest:I never said a word.
Guest:I like that when you said talking, you went into your Cosby.
Guest:You see, I talked later when the place presented to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there was no talking for six years.
Guest:Well, I did this in front of a school, probably 600, 700 students.
Guest:So when I say I was a comedian at 10, that's actually what I'm referring to, that I eventually got up in front of 600, 700 people, but the album went on and I did the act and I killed.
Guest:I mean, the precocious 10-year-old Jewish kid.
Marc:You lip synced in front of?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, that was the act.
Marc:Interesting choice.
Marc:Well, it was the only one I knew.
Marc:But you never thought to just do it?
Guest:Never crossed my mind.
Guest:First of all, the brilliant writing had been done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The genius performance had been done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I only needed to do this act that I could bring to it, which was a 10-year-old precocious Jewish face.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Body, hands.
Guest:uh dancing around while this brilliant comedian killed yeah i mean well i didn't realize at the time i was learning timing from a jedi master i was just aping this thing and everyone thought it was crazy hilarious it did you you attribute that to no question really yeah oh yeah because if you if you listen to those early albums
Marc:There's a rhythm that is so specific.
Marc:I'm odd in that I recently, really just recently, sat down and took Cosby in in a way that I never had.
Marc:I always liked him, I have his records, but he was never in my pantheon of influences or people that I personally connected with as great.
Marc:And it blew my mind.
Marc:Like it changed my comedy recently.
Guest:Well, what I found with him more than anyone, because I studied the stand-ups on The Tonight Show.
Guest:I collected them like baseball cards.
Guest:They were more interesting to me than any sports guy.
Marc:Did you read My Favorite Jokes in Parade Magazine?
Marc:Did you ever remember that?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:How come I never?
Marc:No, you do remember it?
Marc:I remember reading it.
Marc:Yeah, it was in the last page, and it was that era in the 70s, and it was those guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you studied them.
Marc:When were you aware that this was the future for you?
Guest:Around that time, when I was getting on stage in front of people at 11 and killing, albeit with somebody else's act.
Guest:And there was no option from that moment forward ever.
Guest:So by the time I'm a senior in high school, the fact that I'm going to get class clown in the yearbook is beyond slam dunk.
Guest:It's now remember me when everybody is signing my yearbook saying, you know, send me a check when you get to show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when did you actually, did you go to college?
Guest:I graduated from San Jose State University in nine months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:my friends called it dropping out but uh you said to me everything i graduated from that portion of of education and then you started doing stand-up yeah i was already doing stand-up uh in the summer before graduating high school and starting college that was my first actual gig in a nightclub how old 18 really yeah what nightclub i was called uh the garrett
Guest:in campbell california i opened up for a local musical act joe shirino i had this is the worst experience ever auditioning worse than anything i would later face as a struggling actor uh before i became an international film star uh i had to go to joe shirino's house
Guest:And while he sat on his couch in his living room, just him, do my act.
Guest:Did you put it on the Cosby record?
Guest:I wish.
Guest:It would have been awesome.
Guest:Hold on a minute.
Guest:Do you have a record player?
Guest:You know what's funny?
Guest:I don't know if you remember the Circle Star Theater?
Guest:No.
Guest:In San Carlos between San Francisco and San Jose.
Marc:I only lived there for two years.
Marc:I don't have a sense of the...
Guest:It was a theater in the round kind of thing.
Guest:I saw Sammy Davis Jr.
Guest:there.
Guest:There's a classic story from my crazy youth when I went to see Rich Little there, and I was dressed as Clumbo, and I went down to his stage and interrupted his act, and he ended up bringing me on stage.
Guest:That's a pretty ridiculous story at 17 when you just have balls and nothing else.
Marc:All right, let's back up and go to that story.
Marc:So you started doing impressions.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:quickly yeah yeah i started around this i started i did that act the cosby album from 10 to 16 probably and around 16 i'm developing oh yeah six years you better believe it but you say you didn't act but i mean how much of that was in front of people i mean how much traction can you get by putting a record maybe two three times a year okay yeah yeah yeah but you were known for that i wasn't doing the road yet bar mitzvah did you do it at your bar mitzvah no but i did i am quoted uh incorrectly um
Guest:on the interwebs as opening my speech portion of my bar mitzvah by saying a funny thing happened on the way to the temple yeah i didn't in fact say that you said fuck you people yeah i said where are the checks i got a car to buy where are the checks in two years yeah uh so i um
Guest:I did that act, and then I started doing impressions, I guess, when I was 16, 17 in school, and they just came instantly.
Guest:I went from silent act to Mr. Ear, I can do anyone's voice kind of thing.
Guest:Just, I don't know, it was one of those bizarro things.
Guest:What was the first one, Columbo?
Guest:um first famous person was probably marlon brando and nixon david fry's nixon album was pretty huge so i did nixon but my football not my but the football coach at the high school because i didn't of course play we jews tend to sell the concessions at the games uh i would do the football high school uh coach guy and uh i remember one day in the quad where the kids hung out and
Guest:I was doing the impression of the coach, and someone came up from behind me, got me in a headlock, and it was one of those headlocks where you instantly know I'm going to pass out in the next few seconds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And before I passed out, I heard the whisper in my ear from the assailant, I heard about it, and I don't think it's funny.
Yeah.
Guest:It was the coach.
Guest:And out I went.
Guest:And I thought, I could probably do Marlon Brando and get away with it.
Marc:He's not going to get me in a headlock.
Marc:No, you can't even get him out of his house at that point.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:He wouldn't even show up at the Oscars.
Marc:You were safe.
Marc:Unless he could eat me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Those chances are I'm fine.
Marc:Was he even fat yet?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:So I started Marlon Brando and then Peter Fox.
Marc:Well, let me ask you a question about impressions.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Because I've not talked to an impressionist and you are an impressionist.
Marc:Let's just say it.
Marc:You're known to be that.
Marc:But you do stand up as well.
Marc:Yes, sir.
Marc:I'm not making a separation, of course.
Guest:I actually torture the audience now by opening with at least 20 minutes of my stand up before I get to an impression.
Guest:Before you do Columbo for a half hour?
Guest:Before I start dancing for the white man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before I start pandering, I do 20 minutes of Christopher Walken after the 20 minutes of stand-up talking about politics and religion.
Guest:How do you set up Columbo at this point?
Guest:How do I set up?
Guest:Who remembers?
Guest:There's a memorial.
Guest:No, there's a memoriam for me, a passage of time that I stop doing someone when they pass away.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:It is.
Guest:Policy?
Guest:For probably six months.
Guest:It's a personal policy.
Marc:I've not written it up.
Marc:So you'll sit Shiva as an impressionist for six months?
Guest:Not even a full year?
Guest:No, no, not a full year.
Guest:I understand, having done The Voices all these years, that I'm in fact stealing the love that people have for the actual person.
Guest:I'm well aware why the act works.
Marc:right it's the recreation that's uh accurate they're impressed with your skill of portraying someone that they all know so once you're in it the familiarity of that guy you like it's got nothing to do with you you're a vessel yeah you're you're a needy vessel i'm i'm brilliantly reminding them who the person is
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:It's no different than juggling or magic.
Guest:Don't underestimate it.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I am, in fact, simply a... You're comfortable with what you just said?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I don't think that it's... It's a bag of tricks.
Guest:It's absolutely a bag of tricks.
Guest:It's a skill, but not one that I worked hard at.
Guest:I've never studied audio or videotape of someone.
Marc:No, but okay, so that's my question, is that...
Marc:But it is interesting that you started your career literally standing in front of a record player, stealing love, and not even doing anything, and making up your own movements on top of you.
Marc:It's not even an impression there.
Marc:You're just sort of like, look at me doing this.
Guest:Which, by the way, that led to me doing Lenny Bruce at Carnegie Hall as part of the 120th anniversary that James Taylor produced back in April.
Guest:Let's talk about that next.
Guest:You actually did an impression.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:I was asked specifically to recreate.
Guest:Lenny had a famous midnight show there.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:His plane was delayed, right?
Marc:A big snowstorm.
Marc:And they waited.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also, the part that I forgot about, three weeks after the Kennedy assassination.
Marc:And he opened with Lost Wages.
Marc:Von Meter is fucked.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And did he do Lost Wages?
Marc:Like the hat comic?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just got back from Lost Wages.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I can't do impressions, but that's what I wanted to ask, and then we'll get into that, is that...
Marc:Like I can do impressions sometimes for a few seconds.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But I feel that in order to do it, I have to completely detach from any self-consciousness.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Is it just a vocal?
Marc:Are you deliberate in that?
Marc:I just have this skill that I can get intonations and then I just sort of build from there.
Marc:Or do you have to kind of evacuate yourself?
Marc:I do evacuate.
Marc:Not shit your pants.
Guest:I evacuate, shit my pants, and then it's a bit of a possession.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When I do Albert Brooks, I think faster and funnier while doing him than I do in my own thoughts.
Guest:That's a fact.
Guest:Can you answer me as Albert Brooks?
Guest:Why won't you do my show?
Guest:Well, it's simple, Mark.
Guest:I'll be honest with you.
Guest:I've seen, listen, I did Corolla because somebody put a gun to my head.
Guest:the uh the the the uh what is it the house the book house the publisher that's what it is they uh they said we've launched three authors on adam's show and i said really i have a question for you though mark what's a nerdist and it's uh it's chris hard like this is what he said to me on the phone by the way when i asked him on the phone why he wasn't doing why he wasn't doing my show we finally talked about it on the phone because i i was harassing him also on twitter so you did
Marc:on the on the air with him no we just had a private phone call is it my it's my belief that he uh there there are certain people i don't know if you run into this as well as guests that you know don't necessarily want to be asked questions that they that they want to keep their private life private and i respect that it's more than private life it's just and he's he said uh you know i this may fly in the face of common opinion but i don't actually like to talk about myself and i thought that was pretty astute and
Marc:So you do have to sort of like embody them in a minute.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, but it is literally, they take over.
Guest:I started recently improvising Christopher Walken in the act instead of just telling stories about how I met him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I was never one of those guys who was ever comfortable saying, what if Jack Nicholson were a waiter and might go something like this?
Guest:That felt hackneyed to me when I was 16.
Guest:I was already hip enough to...
Guest:From watching stand-up song to Carson to know that's never going to happen.
Guest:So I would create scenarios for them that made sense or that were stories as opposed to changing their profession.
Marc:How many can you get going at once in conversation?
Guest:I used my first HBO special.
Marc:Which I saw recently.
Guest:The first one, really?
Marc:It was either that or it was like... I did the first one-night stand.
Marc:Right, that's what I saw.
Marc:The first group of one-night stands.
Marc:I saw that.
Guest:Okay, so then I don't know if you lasted long enough to my closer.
Guest:I watched the whole thing.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Remind me of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, well, it was the Star Trek bit where Shatner is Shatner and all the other characters on the Enterprise are famous people.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So that would be an example of my act as opposed to just changing their profession.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I would say Cabin's Long, Stardate 5, 7...
Guest:682.
Guest:Since passing through a cosmic cloud, something strange has happened.
Guest:My crew has changed.
Guest:Their faces are the same, but their personalities, their personalities.
Guest:I've altered.
Guest:I'm concerned, Captain Alton.
Guest:And then he would call up Spock and Spock would be Reverend Jim from Taxi.
Guest:Okay, right.
Guest:And then I go down to Scotty in the engine room and it's drunken Dudley Moore.
Guest:So that's what I always did in terms of a big thing, right?
Guest:And then recently, over the years, I realized I've now met these people.
Guest:This is crazy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I should tell those stories.
Guest:People want to know life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So because the other part of my act when I would torture them now in the first part of the act, it is my life and my view on things, politics, religion, whatever.
Guest:So I realized I met Christopher Walken.
Guest:This is a great story.
Guest:So now it's these firsthand anecdotes for the most part.
Guest:And then the other couple of weeks ago, I started improvising.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Another truth part, which is when I do these people, I get lost sometimes when I'm in my own thoughts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So if I wake up in the morning,
Guest:Like yourself, I have a cat.
Guest:In this case, I have one of the black and white cats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Her name is Edie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I will often open the refrigerator the first thing in the morning and say, oh my, we're out of soy milk.
Guest:This is tragic.
Guest:I wasn't planning a trip to the market today, but clearly a drive to Trader Joe's is in my future.
Guest:Oh, I hope he's there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One time.
Guest:So that I might say, hi, Joe, what's with the green fucking bananas?
Guest:Why must my groceries ripen on my counter?
Guest:Here's a suggestion, Joe, from the heart.
Guest:How about you grow your shit before you sell it?
Guest:Don't get me wrong.
Guest:I'm a big fan.
Guest:Your supply of nuts is insane.
Guest:I didn't know so many nuts were available in mankind.
Okay.
Guest:What do you got, monkeys coming by?
Guest:I can't even look at you when I'm doing that.
Guest:So anyways, I will improvise until the cat passes out, is the story.
Guest:But I find when I think like these people, I can go anywhere.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I thought, well, start doing that in the act after 25 fucking years, you idiot.
Marc:Well, the knack for it, the actual doing impressions, because I occasionally can... I can do my friends.
Marc:I can do Louis C.K.
Marc:eating, but I can't... I can do...
Marc:I can do maybe a three seconds of Dustin Hoffman occasionally from the graduate because that's just a nasal thing.
Guest:Well, there's a game that Alan Arkin and his son Tony play called One Word Impressions.
Marc:I love Alan Arkin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:How does that go?
Guest:Well, first of all, let me tell you, if you want to interview Alan Arkin, we can do that as well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Would you be in my pilot?
Guest:I would love to be in your pilot.
Guest:And by that, I hope I know what you're saying.
Guest:So he and his son, Tony, play one word impressions.
Guest:And you do an impersonation of someone.
Guest:You can only use one word.
Guest:And it can't be a word that they're famous for saying.
Guest:Example that I gave was you don't say who the person is.
Guest:You just do the word.
Guest:So here's mine.
Guest:Lingerie.
Guest:Tell me.
Guest:Clinton.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See?
Guest:So that makes sense.
Guest:Yeah, that was it.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:And then the one word impression, when you said Dustin Hoffman, I remember a friend, I don't know how many names I should drop in your show.
Guest:I've already dropped 17.
Guest:Would do Dustin Hoffman by just saying, why?
Guest:it's funny how that can happen so okay so all right so that so it's not a knack for intonation it's actually you embody that if you want me to really uh clinically boil it down we all every human begins speaking by mimicking sounds right and some of us it does that ability doesn't diminish it actually gets stronger for no explainable reason
Marc:So let's talk about, because I want to get to the Lenny Bruce thing that you mentioned, because a lot of people, you know, if you really listen to Lenny Bruce or put him into perspective, I mean, he was an amazing mimic.
Marc:He did impressions.
Marc:He sort of created this element, like in Cosby did as well, this idea of peopling the stage that you could have a scene with three or four characters.
Marc:And there's a few kind of manic bits of Lenny's where he did like five or six characters.
Marc:I remember there's an old movie thing he used to do.
Marc:I can't remember what the bit was, and I didn't know any of the people in it, but there was definitely five or six people in there.
Marc:But getting back to this, I imagine to be a cathartic moment, the Rich Little Show.
Marc:Now, when you knew you were going to be an impressionist, was he your guy?
Guest:Well, I started out in the late 70s, the same time as Dana Carvey in San Francisco, and we talk about it to this day, how when you learn impersonations that are already being done by...
Guest:famous people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Be it Frank Gorshin, Rich Little, David Fry.
Guest:You do kind of their version.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So we did David Fry's Nixon and we did Rich Little's Carson.
Marc:And you were aware of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you eventually, and Dana became a master at this, of course.
Guest:You find a hook that makes it yours.
Guest:Like Jay Moore was the first guy that ever did Christopher Walken.
Guest:He did him on SNL.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A great bit, the Psychic Friends Network.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he's sitting on the couch waiting for the call.
Guest:And so he was the first guy that did it.
Guest:And then
Guest:You know, I was messing around at a casting session with the guy that wrote The Usual Suspects.
Guest:We were producing this thing.
Guest:And if you're on the other end of auditioning, you know, you're waiting for the next person to come in.
Guest:You have to break up the monotony.
Guest:And so we would entertain each other by doing Bob Hope and Christopher Walken taking over for Regis and Kathy Lee.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:And I would say my really awful Bob Hope, I'd say, hey, hey, Chris, who do I got coming on a show tomorrow?
Guest:And then he would do Christopher Walken discussing the guest list.
Guest:And so we both started messing around with Christopher Walken.
Guest:And then we ran into Jay Moore on the lot.
Guest:this is at the Brothers Warner, I believe, and cornered him and said, what's the secret?
Guest:Because we were just like kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, every single syllable word becomes a two-syllable word, and that's the key.
Guest:So there's always some kind of key that opens a thing.
Guest:So the word no when doing Christopher Walken is now, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so there's always something.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It is like magic.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:I remember being on the phone with Dana when he was doing the SNL,
Guest:One week, we would talk every now and then.
Guest:And he said, I got to do Ross Perot this week.
Guest:And I said, how are you going to do that?
Guest:Because no one had ever done it.
Guest:And he said, I don't know.
Guest:They gave me some tape of him on Larry King.
Guest:He's kind of a lunatic.
Guest:And his analogies are ridiculous.
Guest:So I don't know.
Guest:And then throughout the course of this hour phone call, we both started spritzing.
Guest:And by the end of it, we both had a flawless Ross Perot.
Guest:And then I said, well, this fucking sucks.
Guest:You're going to become famous Saturday instantly.
Guest:on SNL for doing Ross Perot.
Guest:And then I'm going to do it in my act next week, and I'm going to be that dick that's doing Dana Carvey.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you can't really own an impression, but they do get attached to people.
Guest:Like me and Shatner, maybe.
Guest:I have people telling me, yours is the thing.
Marc:And Columbo was big for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, he was the start of it all, for sure.
Guest:In fact, that's how I got on the, not how, but it's the reason I got on The Tonight Show.
Marc:I only knew one other guy that really did Columbo, and I don't know what happened to that guy.
Marc:Well, there you go.
Marc:Roger Cabler.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember him?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, he kind of looked like him, and that was like he did a lot of Columbo.
Guest:I can't remember him doing any other impressions.
Guest:And we ran into each other, and it was not a comfortable exchange.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Did you go at it?
Guest:No, but I sensed there was something wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's all I really remember.
Marc:It used to be his headshot, if I'm not mistaken, that he might have one of those composite headshots.
Guest:Wow, you're good.
Guest:That was indeed it.
Guest:It was, right?
Guest:You are good.
Marc:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Guest:No, my first time on The Tonight Show, I orchestrated it so that I would go right to the couch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if you remember coming to town, people telling you about Jim McCauley and what it meant to be circled, and that he was the guy who booked comics on The Tonight Show, and that he... Johnny's Tonight Show.
Guest:Yes, Johnny's Tonight Show, and he would circle the acts, Jim McCauley, because you had to have two shots ready, two six-minute shots ready in your act, because if he brought you and you killed with one...
Guest:And Johnny said, all right, I want that kid back in six weeks.
Guest:And you weren't ready, then Carson would rip off Macaulay's head and shit down his neck.
Guest:It's really about him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he was very, very aware, and he would work with comics on their act if he thought they were ready.
Guest:So he circled and circled and circled.
Guest:And again, I've been watching comics on Johnny's Tonight Show since I'm 10.
Guest:Who are your guys?
Guest:That I watch on the show and love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As a kid.
Guest:Definitely Pryor and George Carlin and then eventually Shandling and guys who are maybe more my peers.
Guest:None of the old timers?
Guest:Well, initially when I'm 10, Alan King for sure.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because...
Guest:cosby for sure was the big one right and then um as i got older 16 17 it became prior and george carlin and those guys robert klein you got to work with alan king in casino and rickles yeah and uh okay so okay so back to uh doing panel on the tonight show so so when macaulay finally taps me on the shoulder and says uh
Guest:And, you know, I'd seen him around the improv where I worked on Melrose when I first came to town.
Guest:It was the improv of a comedy story.
Guest:You kind of had to choose.
Guest:And I went with the improv because that was where all the comics I knew came through San Francisco.
Guest:It was cleaner.
Guest:And said, when you come to town, yeah, it didn't feel like the cocaine-ridden catacombs of the comedy store.
Guest:So Macaulay's circling, hey, Jim, how's it going?
Guest:You know, I'd seen him around.
Guest:I'd been with other guys when they went to do their shots, Seinfeld, Shandling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, people would always bring a couple of comics just to kind of get through it.
Guest:Sure, yeah, hang out.
Guest:So I knew him well enough.
Guest:So I thought we were just saying hi.
Guest:And then he said, you're ready for the show.
Guest:And I said, seriously?
Guest:And he said, yeah.
Guest:And I said, all right.
Guest:You got to bear with me a minute here because I've been waiting for this since I'm 10.
Guest:But now, when I was 10, there were a couple of handful of comedians that could get on The Tonight Show and do stand-up, and I collected them like baseball cards.
Guest:Now there's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.
Guest:The whole experience of standing on the star, doing your six minutes, and getting an okay sign from Johnny
Guest:uh while amazing and uh brilliant and and grateful for you to ask is now not the dream now the dream is to sit next to the king on the couch do my peter falk and watch him piss himself laughing that's the fantasy yeah i said i know the protocol
Guest:I've been a fan of the show forever.
Guest:I'm barely in show business, but enough to know the protocol, that you can't bring me to the couch.
Guest:So I'm willing to wait, if it's possible, until I have a movie or a TV show where you can bring me to the couch, because I know I'll have an impact if I sit next to Johnny.
Marc:You actually, in that moment- I'm 26 years old.
Marc:You're 26 years old.
Marc:You've been offered a Tonight Show spot, and you're negotiating?
Marc:To get on the couch.
Guest:It's the craziest thing I've ever done in my life, by far.
Guest:And I said to him, look, I make... And he's looking at me as if I just landed from another planet.
Guest:And I said, look, I understand how ridiculous and absurd this is.
Guest:And I may call you back six hours from now and beg for this opportunity back.
Guest:So please understand I'm not being disrespectful.
Guest:I'm just trying to...
Guest:launch the best possible career here and i think i'm going to have a greater impact for my career from that couch in the king's presence i don't think i'm going to have much of an impact on the star it's amazing that you were aware enough to know that you were launching a career i mean when i was 26 i was like you know can i say fuck and if i can't why am i doing this yeah no are you kidding from 10 dude it was i just i could not design this thing more in my fantasy yeah
Guest:of where i wanted this all to go it didn't go there went horribly misdirected at times like well we'll get into that but uh uh just in terms of doing the movies for example in a quick nutshell my fantasy was michael keaton night shift give me that i want to be that i want to be a comic lead yeah i want to be that guy not and then i did av i did avalon and then i became well you're like a young harvey kytel right you're a dramatic actor yeah find a stand-up comedian with no formal training as an actor
Guest:who fantasizes about having street cred as a dramatic actor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm living proof of care for what you fucking wish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I can't get jobs in comedies.
Guest:In movies.
Guest:Can't.
Guest:They won't even think about me.
Guest:It's bizarre.
Guest:So Macaulay looks at me like an alien and I say, here's the thing.
Guest:I don't know how long I'm willing to wait.
Guest:You know, I'm hoping if you think I'm ready now, I'm only going to get better.
Guest:So let's just kind of hang in there and see how long I can hold out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He said, I can't argue with you.
Guest:It's not crazy.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then he kind of laughed like, wow, you're insane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kind of thing.
Guest:And...
Guest:It took a year.
Guest:After that.
Guest:When I said that to him, by the way, to really show the balls, because I haven't had them since, I didn't have prospects for a movie or a TV show.
Guest:I didn't have auditions for a movie or a TV show.
Marc:You had just been in LA not long and you'd been just working the road in the clubs in San Francisco?
Guest:Yeah, I'd been working the road to be able to afford to live in LA and hadn't really acquired an agent.
Guest:No TV exposure?
Guest:No.
Marc:That's fucking nuts.
Guest:I mean, that's not true.
Guest:I think I appeared on 30-something, an episode of 30-something.
Marc:As an actor.
Guest:And an episode of Who's the Boss, but had not been on TV.
Marc:But no one knew Kevin Pollak, the impressionist, the stand-up, nothing.
Marc:26 years old, you're telling, look, it's not quite right for me at this time.
Marc:I can do it.
Marc:It's insane.
Marc:But on my terms, if that's possible.
Guest:A little over the year later, Willow comes out and it's enough of a justification for him to bring me on as an actor.
Guest:And I sit down next to Johnny and I do Peter Falk within the first nine seconds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he pushes himself away from the desk laughing so hard.
Guest:And I'm invited back three times a year until he retires.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was the single greatest balls and outcome ever, ever.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Ridiculous.
Marc:And that established you, that relationship established you as an impressionist and a standard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I don't know what it did ultimately for my career.
Guest:I think I was wrong about this is how I'm going to launch my career because it kind of fucked it up because then I was an actor first in people's minds who did impressions.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's interesting that, you know, as an actor, it's not easy for comics to be actors.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And most of them suck because- Yeah, because they're too self-conscious.
Guest:Yeah, and we're not trained to listen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At all.
Guest:And what?
Guest:We're aware of the audience, exactly.
Guest:We're aware of the audience.
Marc:We know they're out there.
Marc:They're setting the pace with their energy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But we're not really listening.
Marc:No, and it's clear.
Marc:There's a mixture between not being able to listen and also complete self-consciousness.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:That, you know-
Marc:Out of their element.
Marc:Every comic I've seen in movies, well, I don't want to mention names, but most of them.
Marc:Chris Rock's horrible.
Marc:But it's interesting, though, because when you talk about someone like Chris Rock, who, you know, you talk to Chris offstage, he's very quiet.
Marc:He doesn't maintain a lot of eye contact.
Marc:He's almost shy.
Marc:You know, he's detached.
Marc:And, you know, I think a lot of his energy goes into being Chris Rock.
Marc:I mean, that is a performance.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And for him to get involved or take on other characters, who knows?
Marc:But most of the time when I'm watching a comic, especially if I know them, I'm like, he's aware of himself.
Marc:He's not getting lost in this scene.
Marc:And all I could do was be real.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But that's it.
Marc:And that's a rare gift.
Marc:And also you sort of got this reputation or this role of playing off larger stars.
Marc:Sidekick.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Or supportive friend or sidekick.
Marc:The Jew on the side.
Guest:As long as the leading man needs an attorney or a friend, I will continue to work.
Marc:But you had a... I was looking at the number of movies you did.
Marc:It's a lot of fucking movies.
Guest:I did, I think, 40 in the 90s.
Guest:Few Good Men in 92 was crossing the goal line where I went from auditioning to getting offers because that movie was so successful and I was the only discovery.
Guest:Everybody else was crazy famous and I was the only guy with an important part.
Guest:written by the great aaron sorkin uh where the audience was like well who's this guy yeah i don't know this guy yeah and then that's so i ended up yeah doing too much but they didn't know you as a comic either no no and in fact that's where all things went horribly wrong and i became an actor to a whole generation however people discover you is who you are so i became because if you could men was so huge and annoyingly continues to this day every week on tnt
Guest:But that's a $40 check for you.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, they buy it for a block and I get nine cents every week.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Guest:I love those checks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:$1.42.
Guest:It's unbelievable.
Guest:No, no, listen, it's great.
Guest:These aren't complaints.
Guest:But that's where it went horribly wrong where I just became an actor.
Marc:But that's a complaint in the sense because in my mind when you came in here, there was part of me knowing what we do now and knowing who you are and knowing what you've done.
Marc:That my question was, is this where you wanted to be?
Guest:No.
Marc:Where did you want to be?
Guest:In the garage next door.
Marc:You can have that.
Marc:You can talk to those people.
Marc:They just had a baby.
Marc:They need money.
Marc:You want to pay money?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:That's fantastic.
Guest:Uh, no, I mean, oh boy, if you ever end up where you really want it to be, I don't even know how that happens.
Guest:So did I want to be in movies?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Got there.
Guest:Did I want to be a standup comedian with some sort of ability to perform nationwide and have people pay tickets and get a babysitter to come see me?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Got there.
Guest:um to tonight's show sit next to johnny all you know there was a lot of goals wildly achieved but dramatic actor no that was never it was never i mean avalon was the first one before a few good men and literally overnight for the 13 people who saw the film all jews they would say to my then wife where did he train in new york he's incredible yeah and we would both laugh ourselves sick because there was no training yeah none well it's just uh janine said that acting is just pretending
Marc:Well, it's not getting caught pretending.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As you were saying, you see comedians being aware.
Guest:We're just a self-conscious bunch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was the thing for me was just don't get caught.
Guest:And it was on A Few Good Men, the great, great, great character actor, J.T.
Guest:Walsh.
Guest:He was great, yeah.
Guest:Brilliant.
Guest:I confessed to him one day around the trailer camp there saying, yeah, I don't...
Guest:really know what I'm doing at all I'm a comedian and I'm really skating by and and you're a master and what can you tell me and he said well actually what you're doing is a technique it's called less is more and the other half of that is less is more nothing is best if you can do nothing in a scene and and steal a little focus well then you win and that's sort of been the mantra from them so so on some level
Marc:You did everything, but you wanted to be a comic-leading man, is what you're saying.
Guest:Yeah, Michael Keaton in Night Shift, to me, was the perfect world.
Guest:And then, you know, I just started doing the dramatic supporting roles, and then that's kind of what... And now the irony, all the years later, is I rarely get a chance to be funny in a movie.
Guest:Well, I'm sorry that you didn't get to do what you wanted, Kevin.
Guest:LAUGHTER
Guest:I know, woe is me.
Guest:If it sounds like woe is me, go fuck yourself.
Marc:It doesn't.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:All right, so let's go back to this thing because as somebody, I don't know, what is your sense of what the public perceives you as an actor who does impressions?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:There are people of my age or yours who know me from stand-up, and then there's everyone under the age of 35 who only knows me as an actor.
Guest:And when I come to their town,
Guest:There's repeat business and then there's a section of the audience that is 22 to 32.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That either know me from Christopher Walken on the internet or because as much as Jay started it, there's now 7,500 people who do Christopher Walken.
Guest:And then for no apparent reason, if you Google the sentence, Christopher Walken impersonation, something of me comes up first, and then that means something in the world out there.
Guest:So they'll come for that.
Guest:And then Usual Suspects is one of those bizarre films that actually generates a new audience every year on college campuses throughout the world.
Guest:By the time you're a sophomore, if you can't speak Suspects, you're a loser.
Guest:And this has been a phenomenon since the mid-90s when it came out.
Guest:inexplicably but because of that 20 to 25 percent of my audience are those people who only know me from that movie and they can't believe the guy from the poster on the movie is that in in their town and then you know so they're broken up into these percentages yeah of who the who the fuck's coming out to see you feel that at this point you know i know that some people kind of misconceive um
Marc:this medium like i'm fairly honest i mean when i started doing a podcast i you know i had nothing uh for whatever reason but i mean you didn't start yours out of desperation you started it as a business opportunity on some level right i mean your career is still thriving yeah i i have uh four films on the tarmac right that i am in right um uh yeah so um
Guest:know that i started as a business because i kind of knew from day one that there wasn't going to be any money in it well i mean but i mean i'm just saying that you're not you know you're still doing well i started it as a lark kind of thing and then it took over my life right well that and now it feels as i'm sure for you that it's it's um
Guest:I haven't felt a part of something in a frontier ever in my career.
Guest:So in that regard, as a fourth phase of my career, I've never felt younger and more alive working on this.
Marc:podcast and control your own thing not since stand-up have we had control over every creative aspect right of a thing we've ever done in show business and we don't have to change it nope unless we want to yeah you know even when you're stand-up it's sort of like you know you got to deal with the one little napoleon who's you know deciding whether you should go on stage saying like yeah maybe you should do a little something with the other thing right you're like no
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Can't work here.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:None of that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I want to talk about this moment with Rich Little, because that, to me, sounds like an important moment.
Guest:Well, it was.
Guest:It was.
Guest:I was 17.
Guest:He was coming to Circle Star Theater, and...
Guest:I decided I was going to prove myself to the great impressionist of the day, Rich Little.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was the master.
Guest:He was in a TV show called The Copycats, where impressionists were featured, and it was a really big deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to the show dressed up as Columbo, Lieutenant Columbo, Peter Falk's character from television, and I waited for the 13 people of your massive audience who wasn't sure.
Guest:So I went dressed as him.
Guest:I can't imagine what the other people thought in my row, first of all, because it wasn't like Comic-Con.
Guest:There's no reason for someone to be dressed up.
Marc:No one did that then.
Guest:A lunatic.
Guest:A lunatic dressed up.
Guest:Only someone with something wrong.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not a 17-year-old bright kid.
Guest:which I alleged to be.
Guest:So I waited for the right moment.
Guest:It took a while to find a moment in his act where I could get up from my seat, go down to the stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I thought if he could see the impression, me doing it, he would say, oh my goodness, I need to take you to show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After the show, get on my jet, because Rich Little has one of those, get on my jet and let's go to show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the fantasy.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:So I was smoking pot pretty much every day at that point anyways.
Guest:So you understand these kind of fantasies.
Guest:So I waited about 40 minutes or so in his act when he finished this big long thing and the audience was applauding and he had a towel and he was drying his forehead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I got up from my seat and I had the overcoat, right?
Guest:Which I'd borrowed from my friend, his dad.
Yeah.
Guest:And I got up from my seat and the overcoat still had the belt in it.
Guest:You know those, right?
Guest:So the belt sticks in the chair and stops me from getting up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Think about that moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've gathered the courage to come to the show.
Guest:I've got a little stubby cigar that's smoked and looked.
Guest:I mean, I'm really, it's Halloween.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the belt stops me when I feel my moment is now.
Guest:And I've got four seconds to get down on the stage before he potentially starts talking again.
Guest:And the belt stops me.
Guest:And I didn't even stop and hesitate and ponder it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I yanked the belt from the overcoat and raced down the path to the stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's got his back to me and the audience's applause is coming down and too quiet.
Guest:And my voice is like, who the fuck is this guy?
Guest:Well, they were applauding his routine.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So as the applause was dying down, I arrived at the side of the stage and you hear as the applause dies down, this lone boy saying, Mr. Little, pardon me, sir.
Guest:Mr. Little, I'm sorry, sir.
Guest:I hate to bother you.
Guest:And he turns around and says, oh my goodness, Lieutenant Columbo.
Guest:And he walks over to the side of the stage and he says, hello, Lieutenant, what can I do for you?
Guest:And he puts the mic in my face.
Guest:I was not prepared for that.
Guest:I thought I would either be waved to or walked out.
Guest:So he comes over and gives me the mic.
Guest:And I say, oh my, Miss Little, very sorry to bother you, sir.
Guest:And he takes the mic back and then he starts doing Columbo.
Guest:Within three seconds, it became clear to not just me, but him also, that there was a reason he had never done Columbo before.
Guest:It was not in his wheelhouse and it was a...
Guest:It was horrible instantly.
Guest:So he thrust the mic back into my face.
Guest:Now, because he at the time was a hero, the hero had failed in front of me.
Guest:And now my Columbo goes up an octave and is horrible also.
Guest:This all happens within seconds.
Guest:And it's only clear between he and I what's going on.
Guest:I'm just letting you know the inner thoughts, the turmoil, the torture of the 17-year-old kid standing there.
Guest:So he could mic back to me.
Guest:Mine's horrible.
Guest:And then he takes the mic back and says, hey, you know what, Columbo, come on up here.
Guest:This is buying me time to gather my thoughts as I walk around on the side stage onto the stairs.
Guest:Now the audience of 2,000 people is roaring applause as I walk onto the stage.
Guest:And now for the first and only time in my life, haven't had it since, I have tunnel vision where I just see him.
Guest:It's never happened since.
Guest:I can't even explain it.
Guest:I know the audience is there, but I just literally can only see him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:I'm walking... And by the way, again, none of this was even in my fantasy that I'd be on stage with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So... And I'd not been on a stage... I'm 17.
Guest:I'd not been on a stage doing Peter Falk in front of 2,000 people, let alone standing next to a hero.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There has got to be shit in my pants.
Guest:Has to be.
Guest:I don't recall it, but there has to be.
Guest:So... Yeah, tell him this.
Guest:I get close enough to him and he says, what can I do for you, Lieutenant?
Yeah.
Guest:And now I say, well, sir, let me explain.
Guest:The missus and me, we were planning to come to the show for six months since we read in the paper you were coming to town.
Guest:And at the last second she gets sick and she can't make the show, when she tells me that if I don't get your autograph, she's not letting me back in the house.
Guest:So please.
Guest:With this, I hand him a pen and a piece of paper, which I brought to get his autograph should that happen after the show.
Guest:He takes the pen and paper, unscrews the pen as if it's a felt pen, puts the bottom and the top, and says to the audience while doing that, this guy better watch out or I'll do Rin Tin Tin and he'll be the tree.
Guest:So let's stop and put a pen in the story for a moment if we can and ask ourselves why Rich Little chose that moment to do Heckler Comeback Line 17.
Guest:After he brought me up on stage.
Marc:Not only Eckler, we're coming back in 1917, but in 1930.
Guest:Not even, what was the other dog show?
Guest:Lassie.
Guest:Lassie, not even Lassie, which would have made sense.
Guest:He goes back to the 30s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And why am I a heckler now?
Guest:You invited me onto your stage.
Marc:Well, he did the classic sort of like, I'm going to take advantage.
Marc:I'm going to bury this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he gets a huge laugh off of that while he's doing the thing.
Marc:Because the audience is 100.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so as Peter Falk, I say, oh, that's hilarious.
Guest:I wish my wife could have seen that.
Guest:And now he goes to sign the autograph, but he's got the back of the middle copper piece that holds the ink because it's a big pen I gave him and now it's inside out.
Guest:And he says, look at this.
Guest:Columbo gave me a broken pen, which is perfect for the character.
Guest:So I said, oh, Mark, did I do that?
Guest:I'm sorry, sir.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he says, I'll tell you what, Columbo, why don't you come back after the show and I'll give you the autograph.
Guest:You've got to get back into the house.
Guest:Ladies and gentlemen, Lieutenant Columbo.
Guest:And I take a huge bow and I sit down and he is the greatest living human being that's ever lived as I watch the remainder of the act.
Guest:Now I know for certain, you heard him, Larry, I say to my friend who I brought with me.
Guest:Come backstage after the show.
Guest:You know I'm getting on the jet and we're going to show business.
Guest:I'll see you whenever, Larry.
Guest:You and I will never speak again because I'm going to show business and you're dead to me now.
Guest:So I sit to the act, I go backstage afterwards, and here's where the story gets real again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:By the time I get backstage, there's already 20 people in line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you think the 17-year-old who had the ball to dress up, go down to the stage to interrupt a man's act, and then share the stage with him, what do you think that 17-year-old does when he gets backstage and sees a line of 20 people?
Guest:Does he march up to the front, say, hi, you remember me.
Guest:I'm just going to go up there and he's going to take me to show business.
Guest:Does he stand in line and wait for an autograph at the back of the line or does he kind of stand there and not sure what to do?
Marc:I think you go to the front of the line.
Guest:That's what present-day me does.
Guest:The 17-year-old me, who had all those balls, got at the back of the line and waited.
Guest:So now I'm seeing people in front of me, and they're getting an autograph from Rich Little.
Guest:So picture this on your radios.
Guest:People approaching him to his right.
Guest:He's taking the pen.
Guest:He's got a pen.
Guest:He's taking whatever it is they want him to sign.
Guest:And as they pass in front of him, moving to his left, he says, Hi, what's your name?
Guest:And they say, Pete.
Guest:He signs it.
Guest:There you go, Pete.
Guest:Thanks a lot.
Guest:And back to the next person on his right.
Guest:Hi, what's your name?
Guest:Debbie.
Guest:There you go, Debbie.
Guest:Thanks for coming out.
Guest:Hi, what's your name?
Guest:Larry.
Guest:Thanks for coming out, Larry.
Guest:And then he sees me and he says, hey, there he is.
Guest:And takes the thing from my hand and says, what's your name?
Guest:It's Kevin.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:And I'm shuffled off the buffalo like the three people in front of me.
Guest:And he's back to the next person to his right.
Guest:Hi, what's your name?
Guest:Phil.
Guest:There you go, Phil.
Guest:That's what happened.
Guest:to the 17-year-old who shared the stage with Rich Little, who sat there for 30 minutes after his act, knowing full well, oh my God, could you believe he brought me on stage?
Guest:And goodbye, Larry, we'll never talk again.
Guest:I'm going to show.
Guest:But in retrospect, do you fault him for that?
Guest:In retrospect, I never let someone who's dressed up come to my show.
Guest:It's never happened, but if it did...
Guest:But I mean, he was generous.
Guest:I would not bring them on stage.
Guest:He was generous.
Guest:So he was insanely generous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He didn't actually bring me on stage to rip me apart.
Guest:It was just that one line.
Marc:No, no, right, right.
Guest:As it turns out, it was just that one line.
Marc:I mean, the only other way he could handle it would be like, look at this guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who the hell, but you're a kid.
Marc:You're not going to do that.
Marc:And by the way.
Marc:And he knew instinctively that you bring a kid on stage, even if you sucked, he would have been a magnanimous guy.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:I didn't realize that it was self-serving and that it was the best way to get out of it, whatever this thing was that he had brought attention to.
Guest:Did you meet him later ever?
Guest:Outside of the stage.
Guest:Oh, yeah, of course.
Guest:Did you bring that up?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And?
Guest:No recollection.
Guest:He pretended to remember, but it had been 20 years.
Guest:So I didn't fault him for my belief that he did not remember.
Marc:Along those lines, it's a great story.
Marc:But having had the opportunity to work with all these great actors,
Marc:and also having the opportunity to meet your heroes, was there a particular moment where outside, because the talk about, the shop talk around you and Dana and the knowledge of impressions and rendering them down and all that stuff, that's interesting.
Marc:Was there a moment where outside of that moment as a grown performer, the J.T.
Marc:Walsh moment aside, where you talk to Alan King, you talk to Don Rickles, you talk to one of these guys that blew your mind in a way where it answers some question for you?
Marc:Because there's obviously a difference.
Marc:These guys, like Alan King, who you watch when you were a kid, and he's been hammering it out and hammering out.
Marc:Did you ever have a moment where your mind was blown because you met one of these guys?
Guest:uh rickles yeah much more so um well king was kind of a douchebag especially if you ask don uh rickles yeah because we would go out to dinner and he would say ah is king coming you know it's like this is hilarious it's so funny to me uh why did you invite him you know it's that thing uh oh i'd say i was just talking with alan and he'd say did he mention the kennedys yeah
Guest:You know, it was that sort of knee jerk that you knew, oh, these guys have a 50-year history.
Guest:But Rickles confided in me that he, you know, because he was a hero of mine early when I saw him in Kelly's Heroes when I was a teenager because it was a stand-up comedian doing a dramatic role.
Guest:And I thought that could never happen.
Guest:And it blew my mind.
Guest:So I confessed, you know, I shared that with him.
Guest:And he said, kid, I don't know what I'm doing here.
Guest:You know, I mean, Scorsese, this is ridiculous.
Guest:And he said, however, I did find out that De Niro has worshipped me since he was a kid.
Guest:Apparently, when he was growing up in New York, there were two types of peer groups.
Guest:There was the doo-wop group.
Guest:You stood around a circle with your friends and you sang songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there was the put-down group.
Guest:You stand around a circle and you say, your mother this, your mother that...
Guest:And believe it or not, De Niro was in one of those groups.
Guest:The shy, ridiculous guy who can't say two words was in one of those groups.
Guest:This is what Rickles was telling me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is how Rickles boils down De Niro.
Guest:So then to watch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So as a comedian, you know, to hear that from Mount Rushmore was remarkable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then to see it on the set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because Rickles basically was telling me in that moment, I own De Niro.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then to see him rip into him, I'm talking about on the casino floor, one of those scenes, hundreds of extras,
Guest:De Niro saying his dialogue, standing next to Rickles, middle of the scene, cameras rolling, Scorsese's watching, middle of the shot, Rickles would interrupt.
Guest:Is that the way you're going to do it?
Guest:Like that?
Guest:No, no, you got the awards.
Guest:I'm sure you know what you're doing.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:And-
Guest:Every mouth agape, not a sound heard until they see De Niro laughing.
Guest:It was one of those moments.
Guest:Literally, wait till the king laughs.
Guest:And then De Niro would weep like a child from laughter.
Guest:It was his greatest joy in life.
Guest:You will never see De Niro this happen.
Guest:Being insulted by Don Redford.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:You'll never see him.
Guest:And then now it's over for Don.
Guest:Now he can't wait to do it again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Another scene in the movie is when my character presents a mock-up check as a movie casino to Alan King's character.
Guest:And it's a moment in front of 80 people portraying the press extras.
Guest:So we're waiting for De Niro to come to set.
Guest:And there's these dais tables.
Guest:And it's me, Alan King, and Don Rickles with 80 extras sitting in front of us while we wait for De Niro to get to the set.
Guest:And after 10 minutes of waiting, Rickles has got a microphone in front of him on the dais table.
Guest:He's got a captive audience of 80 extras.
Guest:He's bored.
Guest:And so he starts laying into these 80 extras like a master.
Guest:What do you people make $40 a day and bad fish off a truck?
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:And he's hammering them for maybe 15 minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's some of the fastest, most brilliant improvising you will ever see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's already in his 70s.
Guest:So...
Guest:Rickles had sort of finished with the extras and he had run his course and he had finally decided he was done and tired and he leaned back into his chair for maybe a minute and then De Niro walked on and Rickles lunged back at the mic grabbing it yelling at the extras alright which one of you said he's gay he's here now say it to his face laughing
Guest:And then again, De Niro stops and weeps with laughter.
Guest:And these are the greatest moments I think I've ever been privy to a hero.
Guest:It's a great kind of triangle.
Guest:More than De Niro talking to me, it was Rickles doing that in front of me.
Marc:Well, that's the amazing thing that there's a weird... When you watch those roasts, there was a weird roast where...
Marc:One of the Dean Martin roasts.
Marc:Reagan?
Marc:No, that Rickles hosted.
Marc:I think it was a roasted dean.
Marc:It seemed like to just be a celebrity audience.
Marc:I don't know what it is, but there were moments where, you know, he was able to ride this line where, you know, he clearly had a certain amount of rage and focus and some of that shit cut deep.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:And there were moments where you're like, holy fuck.
Marc:He's getting to say what everyone's thinking.
Marc:Right, but it's a risk.
Marc:I mean, like that moment where no one knew what De Niro was going to laugh.
Marc:I mean, that was he did that a lot.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Where the audience was literally like, you know, this could not go well.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:De Niro could literally do an about phase and walk off set.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or the one with Muhammad Ali, where you remember the roast of Muhammad Ali and Rickles got up there and it got a little racial.
Marc:And there was this moment where I'm like, holy fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then it sort of relieves itself because of his humility of some kind that he has.
Marc:Oh, this shy, ridiculous guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It really was beautiful.
Guest:It was so beautiful and almost effortless, too, at the same time.
Marc:Well, that's a great one.
Marc:And now, okay, so this Lenny Bruce, what was that exactly?
Guest:Here's the deal.
Guest:I did a movie.
Guest:It's called The Big Year with Steve Martin, Jack Black, Owen Wilson, Rashida Jones, Angelica Houston, Diane Weiss, Joe McHale.
Guest:They couldn't get anyone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sounds like a stretch.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:Independent film, right?
Marc:No money.
Marc:No money at all.
Guest:My scenes are me and Joe McHale hounding Steve Martin.
Guest:Kind of the way that Goldblum and Harry Shearer hounded... In the right stuff.
Marc:In the right stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just had Harry... Your comedy team.
Guest:I just had Harry on the Chacha, by the way.
Guest:That was pretty fucking great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Loved spending two hours with him.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:So while we're shooting, Joe McHale says, do you think we could have lunch with Steve Martin?
Guest:Do you think that's possible?
Guest:And I said, first of all, get away from me.
Guest:And second of all, no.
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:Your name again.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Don't talk to Steve.
Guest:And in fact, you should stop talking to me.
Guest:Um, uh, so we eventually, and you know, I'd worked with Steve years and years and years before in LA story, very early in my career.
Guest:And even then I'm just not one of these guys who hounds famous people and tries to hang out with them on the set of a movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm still waiting for people to tap me on the shoulder and say, we've made a horrible error.
Guest:We meant Kevin Spacey.
Marc:They're not supposed to be here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But please help yourself to the buffet.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Have a buffet and get out.
Guest:Uh, so, but, but this time around, uh, Steve was, uh, extremely, uh, friendly.
Guest:And so we ended up having a couple of lunches together.
Guest:Shortly thereafter, finished the film.
Guest:Uh, we had exchanged emails.
Guest:Uh, Joe McHale and I got Steve on Twitter.
Guest:That's why Steve Martin's now on Twitter actually.
Guest:And so he, he emails me saying, I was just talking with my longtime friend, James Taylor.
Guest:He's hosting the 120th anniversary at Carnegie hall.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:And it's kind of a tribute night.
Guest:So Sting's going to be there doing some Beatles stuff.
Guest:And Bette Midler's going to do some Sophie Tucker.
Guest:And I'm going to do some of this and so on.
Guest:And James Taylor mentioned to me he wanted to do a little tribute to Lenny Bruce.
Guest:He didn't know where to start, how to have that happen.
Guest:Didn't know if there's anybody out there doing Lenny after all these years.
Guest:And so Steve says, I suggest it to him.
Guest:I just worked with this comedian who does impressions.
Guest:Kevin Pollack is also an actor.
Guest:So he can kind of make it a thing.
Guest:um so he says in the email kevin there's nothing for you to do but wait to see if james calls you yeah and eventually i get a call from james taylor who i'd never met and he says hey man steve said you could maybe do this and um i don't really know where to begin if you want to listen to some millennial stuff and figure out what might be right yeah uh you know and so he says get together with steve maybe he can help and i you know it's one of those things where there's an old thing with actors
Guest:where if a director says to you at an audition, do your horseback ride, you say, I have a saddle in the trunk.
Guest:You know, there's no, there's no, worry about it later.
Guest:So when James Taylor said, can you do this?
Guest:I said, well, of course, of course I can do this.
Guest:i had uh listened and to lenny bruce uh a lot but 25 years ago sure did you figure out what it was yeah yeah uh but but i mean when i was a fan of his it was from 25 years ago and it was the early stuff and it was already long after the fact of lenny bruce in a way yeah sure for you it must no it was it was it was yeah
Guest:So I call Steve and I say, yeah, great, fucko, now what?
Guest:And he says, well, first of all, you should probably do one of the funny bits.
Guest:And I said, thanks, Steve.
Guest:Thanks for that.
Guest:The thing is that James said he only wants it to be four or five minutes long.
Guest:And he said, the hard part for you might be that it needs to kind of end on a punchline because you don't want to be on stage at Carnegie Hall and not end on a big laugh.
Guest:And Lenny's stuff on the albums tends to meander.
Guest:There's really no ending.
Guest:There's no buttons.
Guest:There's no punchlines.
Guest:The stories are hilarious throughout.
Guest:But he said, so you got to keep those things in mind.
Guest:And then I went to the video catalog out there available of early Lenny.
Guest:And there's so little available.
Marc:Steve Allen, yeah.
Marc:The appearances, yeah.
Guest:Only Steve Allen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I got to the swagger and the head movement.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the way he kind of held himself a little.
Guest:And...
Guest:Throughout all the albums, the only thing I could find that hit that criteria ended up being where he talked about gearing up to do an appearance on Steve Allen, and they wouldn't let him do the tattoo on his arm thing.
Guest:I don't know if you remember the bit, but he said...
Guest:I want to tell you about Steve Allen's show.
Guest:I did the show twice.
Guest:I had a bug with the show, man.
Guest:They wouldn't let me tell the story.
Guest:I got a tattoo.
Guest:You know, it's real.
Guest:It's not a cockamamie.
Guest:It doesn't come off.
Guest:And because of this tattoo, I can never be buried in a Jewish cemetery.
Guest:It's just the way they swing.
Guest:You know, you got to go out of the world.
Guest:The way you came in, no marks, no changes, which certainly belies the whole rabbi philosophy.
Guest:Which I later in the act when I did at Carnegie Hall changed to moil because rabbi at the time because the audience laughs on the record might have made sense in the 60s But now I thought I think he means moil because you can't go where your guy are missing even a circumcision Technically would be wrong.
Guest:So that was the only thing I changed obviously I'm not gonna change another syllable and it got a huge laugh as it should have the way it was intended
Guest:And there was these jazz references in his rhythm, of course, that you well know, that used in words like bug.
Guest:I had a real bug with that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:As opposed to it bugged me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I had this tattoo, and I met my aunt's in Jamaica, and I'm at the sink at one point, and my sleeves rolled up, and she sees a tattoo, and she freaks out, and she pins a tattoo.
Guest:And she... She's like a Jewish seagull, this woman.
Guest:You can't get buried in a Jewish cemetery.
Guest:You ruin it.
Guest:So he's acting out characters in the act, in the bit.
Guest:So that's one of the reasons I sort of honed in.
Guest:So the guy at the Steve Allen show, the censor, he says, I'm sorry, Lenny.
Guest:You can't do the bit on the show.
Guest:And I said, well, why not, man?
Guest:He says, because it's offensive to Jewish people.
Guest:And I said, well, then I'm not doing the show.
Guest:And he said, because apparently no one ever said this to this guy.
Guest:So...
Guest:They go off for an hour and leave me in the corner like a leopard with a bell on my neck.
Guest:And they finally come back and they said, all right, Lenny, we talked it over.
Guest:And it's definitely offensive to the non-Jewish people as well.
Guest:And I said, well, how's that, man?
Guest:And he says, because what you're basically saying is...
Guest:that the Gentiles don't care what they bury.
Guest:Now, of course, that's the ending of the bit.
Guest:Earlier in the bit, which now I realize I ruined, he says to his aunt in Jamaica, when she says, you can't be buried in Jewish cemetery, he says, relax, we'll just cut this part off and bury it in a Gentile cemetery.
Guest:Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
Guest:So that's the reason, but I just jumped ahead.
Guest:Did he kill?
Guest:Yeah, well, it was a performance piece.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I wanted to make sure I wasn't on stage trying to get laughs off Lenny's act.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I wanted to make sure it was kind of done as a performance tribute, but that it ended on the punchline.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so what was nice is that they said, first of all, it was my first time at Carnegie Hall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So imagine that ridiculousness.
Guest:Steve says, you know, Steve Martin says, you know,
Guest:we should go to lunch earlier in the day and figure out how for me, what's the best way for me to introduce you?
Guest:Because he said, I want the audience to see you as you first a little bit, standing with me, talking about Lenny, maybe talking about you doing impersonations rather than you just coming out and doing this.
Guest:He wanted to protect me, I realized, which was kind of amazing and cool.
Guest:So at lunch, he says, he says, I'm going to do this thing before you come out where we talk about there were great comedians.
Guest:That performed at Carnegie Hall.
Guest:And behind me on the wall there, they're going to have these giant photos of Bob Hope and George Carlin and all the, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they have a little picture of me in the corner with the rabbit ears.
Guest:And sure enough, at rehearsal, he said, do you have a smaller one?
Guest:Because the joke was it was really tiny already.
Guest:And he wanted it to be actually smaller.
Guest:So he said, so then I'll say there was a very famous show here, a midnight show that Lenny Bruce did.
Guest:And it was a snowstorm, and no one thought actually that anyone would come out, and the place was packed, and it was kind of a great moment in his career.
Guest:And so we wanted to try to recreate some of that for you here tonight.
Guest:I have a friend of mine.
Guest:You know him as an actor.
Guest:He's also a comedian, does great impressions.
Guest:Let's have him come out.
Guest:Kevin Pollack and I come out.
Guest:Now, it's my first time on stage at Carnegie Hall, as I said.
Guest:And I'd known about this for months and months, but it didn't dawn on me until I'm in the shower three hours before this.
Guest:That I'm about to use Carnegie Hall as open mic night.
Guest:Because I'm about to do a routine that I've never done in front of an audience.
Guest:You fucking moron.
Guest:I mean, I'm working on it around the house.
Guest:My girlfriend sees it once.
Guest:That's it for her.
Guest:And she just sees me walking by doing a sentence.
Guest:She doesn't need to see it.
Guest:She's bored with anything I do.
Guest:So that's ridiculous.
Guest:And then it's just me in the shower and me walking around the house.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Now I'm about to walk on stage at Carnegie Hall and do this for the first.
Guest:Because at rehearsal over in the day, they go, do you want to rehearse it?
Guest:And I said, no.
Guest:There's nine crew members sitting in the audience.
Guest:That's not the memory I want in my head right before I go on stage later.
Guest:The nine guys sitting in the audience bored while I'm working this out for your cameras.
Guest:Because they were shooting it for prosperity.
Guest:So Steve says, when I walk out on stage, I want to relax my ass a little.
Guest:So I use the old line.
Guest:I walk out and the audience is applauding.
Guest:And I say, please be seated.
Guest:And of course, no one was standing.
Guest:So it's funny.
Guest:But it allows me to get a laugh as myself.
Guest:And then Steve says, well, Kevin...
Guest:uh people here know you as an actor but they also may not uh some of them may know that you uh you of course do impersonations and then i launch into christopher walken without him asking yeah and i say yes steve it's great to be here tonight standing here with you especially i'm excited i wish i could dance i'm a hoover at heart i kick it old school and the audience is laughing and steve says would you mind doing one for us now
Guest:Right?
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:Fantastic.
Guest:And then I launch... Fantastic.
Guest:Audience roars.
Guest:And then I go... And I say, well, actually, I like to do kind of different ones, esoteric maybe, like Alan Arkin.
Guest:And he says, oh, Alan Arkin, really?
Guest:And I do a little Alan Arkin.
Guest:I'm sitting up there, Steve.
Guest:I can barely see the show.
Guest:I'm up in the rafters.
Guest:I would like, if it's possible, to get moved.
Guest:Audience is laughing.
Guest:And he says, well, have you ever... And he's pointing to himself with both hands.
Guest:And he says, have you ever done somebody really famous?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I say, oh, right.
Guest:Now that I think of it, I have never seen anyone impersonate you before.
Guest:And he said, no, they haven't.
Guest:And I said, well, I wouldn't... And this is all worked out at lunch, by the way.
Guest:This is what we do on stage.
Guest:Well, I wouldn't take it personal, Steve, you know, because usually the person has to have a very identifiable... And he said...
Guest:Career, I said, personality.
Guest:And then that got a big laugh.
Guest:And he said, ladies and gentlemen, Kevin Polley.
Guest:And he walks off stage.
Guest:And he gave me one great suggestion, which was when I walk off stage, instead of turning back to them and launching into Lenny, because that's what the plan was, watch me walk off stage and then we'll have a lighting change
Guest:And then move your body slightly.
Guest:Like, just change your physical chemistry before you turn back towards the audience.
Guest:Just for a nanosecond.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that they see some kind of subliminal transformation.
Guest:And then turn towards them and start talking as Lenny.
Guest:And he was 100% correct.
Guest:He had protected me...
Guest:Like, I hope I get a chance to for someone else.
Guest:It was really astounding.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:And, yeah, it was just freakish.
Guest:And it went off good.
Guest:Yeah, because there was no pressure to, like I said.
Guest:Establish.
Guest:To get laughs off of Lenny's act.
Guest:It really was a tribute to him.
Guest:And I had worked out the head movements and the banter.
Guest:And it had been so long since anyone had seen Lenny perform.
Right.
Guest:Chances are they really didn't remember what he sounded like anyways.
Marc:Right, but you felt they were engaged.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Because it was his act.
Marc:Great story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I want to ask you real quick.
Marc:I actually have to go to an audition.
Marc:I don't go to many.
Marc:I have a few lines.
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:What would you like me to do?
Guest:How can I help?
Marc:Well, I mean, I mean, quite honestly, I mean, you know, unfortunately, it's going to be a little bit of a cold read.
Marc:The guy's angry.
Marc:He's a political consultant.
Marc:He's really high energy, clearly an angry guy and kind of an asshole.
Guest:I don't see why you would get called in.
Guest:How do I play this?
Guest:I wouldn't go.
Guest:I wouldn't go.
Marc:I tried to.
Marc:It's not in you to be any of those things.
Marc:When you go into an audition, do you just, I mean, honestly.
Guest:In this case, all you need to do is believe the words that are written.
Guest:And then just literally go in as you.
Guest:Am I already fucked that I don't know, haven't committed to memory?
Guest:No, because you're going to hold the pages in your hand.
Guest:Anyways.
Guest:Do not make the mistake of pretending you've got it memorized.
Guest:Hold the pages, let them see that, and I just got this guy, sorry.
Guest:If that comes out of you, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Takes all the pressure off having it to be, and so that way you can look down at the page.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Anyways.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which you should do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then it's really about your personality.
Guest:They don't expect perfect performance there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They really don't.
Marc:They just want to feel something.
Guest:They want to see your energy, man.
Guest:In fact, if you could treat it like you're on stage and doing your act, honestly, because it sounds like it's a very similar energy and that's why your agent wants you to go into this because it's a bit of a no-brainer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So then, by the way, it's going to come down to, and this I didn't really know until I got on the other side of the audition.
Marc:It's going to come down to three guys turning it down.
Guest:They already know what they want.
Guest:Yeah, well, sure.
Guest:They know the guy they want.
Guest:They know what they want.
Guest:Yeah, that's the only reason you're in the door.
Guest:The offer they made fell flat.
Guest:Let's be clear.
Guest:That's the only way that I get.
Guest:So yeah, so they've already made up their mind what they want.
Guest:They're already either fans of yours or they're not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there's nothing for you to prove.
Guest:You just got to go there and be you.
Guest:Thank you, man.
Guest:Seriously.
Marc:And thanks for talking.
Marc:I'm going to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:I hope that was enough Jewish entertainer for you between him and I, Kevin Pollack.
Marc:I find him very charming and very entertaining and very fun and funny.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:Please go to WTFPod.com and get some merch.
Marc:Kick in some shekels.
Marc:Get the app for iPhone, iPad, Droid, your computer.
Marc:Check out some merch.
Marc:New t-shirts.
Marc:Posters still left.
Marc:The Coop poster still left.
Marc:Great gift.
Marc:I'll sign it for you.
Marc:My CDs.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:All of it.
Marc:Right there.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:I already did this shit in my pantsing earlier, alright?
Marc:I don't have anything left in me.
Marc:I'm drained of it all.
Marc:Exhausted.
Marc:Boomy.
Marc:Boomer.
Boomer.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:When are we going to do this again?
Marc:You can't just do the end of two shows and then, like, split.
Marc:I know you got nerves.
Marc:I know you're nervous.
Marc:Is it my tone?
Marc:Boomie.
Guest:Over.
Marc:All right, fuck it.
Marc:It'll happen again, I swear.
Marc:I gotta go.
you