Episode 229 - Mary Lynn Rajskub

Episode 229 • Released November 20, 2011 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Marc:Really?

00:00:08Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:09Marc:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Marc:Wait for it.

00:00:12Marc:Pow!

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck?

00:00:14Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Marc:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Marc:It's time for WTF?

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Mark Maron.

00:00:24Marc:Okay, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you?

00:00:25Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:28Marc:What the fuck nicks?

00:00:29Marc:What the fuck ups?

00:00:30Marc:What the fuck you buy wall streets?

00:00:32Marc:What the fucks a kins?

00:00:33Marc:What the fuck a recans?

00:00:35Marc:It's Mark Maron.

00:00:36Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:37Marc:Thank you for being here.

00:00:39Marc:Let me do this out of the gate here.

00:00:41Marc:So I don't forget.

00:00:42Marc:I will be at the Neptune theater in Seattle.

00:00:45Marc:That's a November 25th boxing day.

00:00:48Marc:No, that's not boxing day.

00:00:49Marc:It's black Friday.

00:00:50Okay.

00:00:50Marc:It's a boxing day is the day after Christmas.

00:00:52Marc:I don't know where I'm going to be then, but Black Friday at the Neptune Theater in Seattle.

00:00:57Marc:And if you're coming and you're listening and I'm getting you on time or in time or at the right time here, bring cash if you want stuff, because I.

00:01:05Marc:I don't have an iPhone, so I don't have one of those slidey things.

00:01:08Marc:All right.

00:01:08Marc:I'm trying to get up to speed with that.

00:01:10Marc:I have an iPhone in the mail.

00:01:12Marc:I couldn't be happier about it.

00:01:13Marc:But if you want a coupe poster, which are kind of pricey because they're hand screened and signed and they're beautiful.

00:01:19Marc:They're like 50 bucks, but I'll have shirts.

00:01:20Marc:I'll have CDs.

00:01:22Marc:I'll have some buttons and stuff, you know, stuff, Christmas presents, whatnot.

00:01:26Marc:But bring some cash to Seattle if you're coming.

00:01:29Marc:Arlington Draft House.

00:01:30Marc:I screwed up.

00:01:31Marc:I said I was going to be there on the last show.

00:01:33Marc:I said I was going to be there November 2nd and 3rd.

00:01:35Marc:Obviously, you would have to go back in time to see that show.

00:01:39Marc:And I wasn't there.

00:01:41Marc:So it will be December 2nd and 3rd at the Arlington Draft House.

00:01:45Marc:I'll bring some shirts for that too.

00:01:47Marc:Not going to bring the Coop posters.

00:01:49Marc:Coop posters are going to be at Seattle and then on the site if I have any left.

00:01:54Marc:Well, I'll save like 50.

00:01:55Marc:I'll bring 50 to Seattle.

00:01:57Marc:There's only 100 printed.

00:01:59Marc:All right, enough of that.

00:02:00Marc:Can I just say one thing, you guys?

00:02:02Marc:Can I please just share this with you?

00:02:04Marc:I went out to a show.

00:02:05Marc:Now, you know my girlfriend Jessica is a big podcast fan.

00:02:10Marc:I have to hear about a lot of my peers doing podcasts.

00:02:12Marc:I personally don't have a tremendous amount of time to listen to much of anything.

00:02:15Marc:I don't have time to do anything.

00:02:17Marc:I have this horrible ability...

00:02:19Marc:or inability to compartmentalize.

00:02:21Marc:So work never really stops for me.

00:02:23Marc:And I sort of do it at my own pace.

00:02:25Marc:And it's not very organized.

00:02:26Marc:So in other words, I'm pretty much always working on something for this show, for my stand up, for the book, whatever it is, I'm working.

00:02:33Marc:That includes tweeting.

00:02:34Marc:So don't get on me about that.

00:02:36Marc:But Jessica is a huge fan of walking the room.

00:02:39Marc:Walking the Room is a podcast that features Dave Anthony and Greg Barrett, two guys I've known for probably, what, 15 years.

00:02:48Marc:I've worked with both of them many years.

00:02:49Marc:We started in San Francisco together.

00:02:51Marc:I know these guys.

00:02:52Marc:They're both funny guys.

00:02:54Marc:But they did their first live show last night, and Jessica took me.

00:02:57Marc:She's a huge fan of that show.

00:03:00Marc:So I got to hear about Greg.

00:03:01Marc:I got to hear about Dave ad infinitum, on and on.

00:03:05Marc:Which is fine because I love both of those guys, but they had their first live show last night and I'd never listened to the other podcast.

00:03:13Marc:I never listened to their podcast, not because I have anything against them, just don't have the time.

00:03:17Marc:But I got to tell you, I've known these guys a long fucking time and they have never been funnier than when they are together.

00:03:25Marc:I mean, the rapport between them as a radio program and as a live performance was hilarious.

00:03:31Marc:They had Jen Kirkman on and they had Brendan Walsh as the guest.

00:03:34Marc:And I just watched as an audience member.

00:03:36Marc:And like I said, it's thrilling to see guys you've known for so long be so fucking funny just because they're best friends and the rapport was hilarious.

00:03:47Marc:So I don't know if you listen to it, but I'm giving a very...

00:03:51Marc:um passionate endorsement for walking the room i think you should go listen to that because uh you know they both have their foibles not unlike me i'm sure you could find them annoying in their own unique ways and i'm sure they'd admit to that but together something's going on there and i would recommend i'm sure you can get it on itunes it's uh it's called walking the room dave anthony greg barrett

00:04:12Marc:Check that out just because it's entertaining as fuck.

00:04:16Marc:They're both mildly bitter in different forms.

00:04:20Marc:You know, Greg sort of embraces the bitter and pretends like it's positive.

00:04:24Marc:And of course, Dave, both of them have been on my show, by the way, embraces the bitter wholeheartedly.

00:04:29Marc:But together, it's good stuff.

00:04:32Marc:And it's interesting because we went out last night.

00:04:34Marc:I don't know what your life has looked like.

00:04:37Marc:I go out now.

00:04:38Marc:Again, I don't know how you have led your life or where you have been in your life, but I've lived in four or five different cities.

00:04:44Marc:I've had two ex-wives.

00:04:47Marc:I've had many friends, many communities, many cliques, many places to live.

00:04:52Marc:I've been around.

00:04:54Marc:And it's just bizarre when you start to run into people from your other lives because I am losing my I don't know if it's age or I'm taking the wrong vitamins.

00:05:06Marc:I had that moment this morning that, you know, holding the handful of vitamins that that deep existential moment where you're like, oh, fuck this.

00:05:14Marc:What is it?

00:05:14Marc:What do these even do?

00:05:16Marc:What am I stupid?

00:05:17Marc:You think this is making a difference?

00:05:19Marc:Huh?

00:05:20Marc:I don't know.

00:05:20Marc:I'm in.

00:05:22Marc:Better take them.

00:05:23Marc:But you see people and it's gotten to the point.

00:05:26Marc:I'm 48 years old.

00:05:28Marc:I've lived in Boston, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles twice.

00:05:33Marc:I can't place people.

00:05:35Marc:I used to have a great memory for faces and now I can't place them partially because a lot of those faces are now getting older.

00:05:43Marc:So I have to adjust and

00:05:45Marc:But then there's a sort of like, what did we do?

00:05:47Marc:How do I know you?

00:05:48Marc:Did we sleep together?

00:05:49Marc:Did I yell at you?

00:05:50Marc:Do you hate me?

00:05:51Marc:Is there something I should know about what happened between us 20 years ago?

00:05:55Marc:What's going on?

00:05:56Marc:But I'm not having a midlife crisis.

00:05:59Marc:I'm not in a midlife panic.

00:06:00Marc:I'm trying to ease into a midlife acknowledgement.

00:06:04Marc:I have a hard time picturing myself at my age, by the way.

00:06:08Marc:Don't want to toot my own horn.

00:06:10Marc:Yes, I do.

00:06:11Marc:But not really.

00:06:12Marc:I mean, is this a humble brag?

00:06:13Marc:I don't know if it's a humble brag.

00:06:15Marc:But I was number six on Salon's Sexiest Men for 2011.

00:06:23Marc:Number six.

00:06:25Marc:And I want I don't want to my own horn again, but I'm going to they had me down as being 42 years old.

00:06:31Marc:And I corrected them because that's that's how I roll.

00:06:35Marc:That's who I am.

00:06:36Marc:I wrote them.

00:06:36Marc:I said, do you still want me if I'm 48?

00:06:38Marc:Did I still make the cut?

00:06:40Marc:Am I still young enough to be sexy for your your highbrow sexy pole?

00:06:47Marc:But getting back to this idea that, again, midlife acknowledgement, not midlife panic.

00:06:51Marc:I mean, I have been a lot of places.

00:06:53Marc:I have been with a lot of people.

00:06:55Marc:I've been in a lot of people.

00:06:57Marc:But these moments that you have when you run into somebody, a couple of things happen.

00:07:03Marc:All of a sudden, your brain, like I ran into some woman.

00:07:06Marc:I ran into two people last night, neither of whom I'd slept with, but both of them came from completely different periods of my life.

00:07:12Marc:And your brain just sort of wrestles with it.

00:07:15Marc:Like, you know, where are they?

00:07:16Marc:Where do they fit in?

00:07:17Marc:Where's that file?

00:07:18Marc:Do I have video on this?

00:07:20Marc:Is there any way I can do a search?

00:07:22Marc:Do I have a first name?

00:07:23Marc:I don't know if I have a first name.

00:07:25Marc:Can I search the image bank?

00:07:27Marc:Yeah, but those are outdated now.

00:07:29Marc:And you're just twisting this face or this tone or this vibe coming at you from this person that you know you should know.

00:07:35Marc:And then all of a sudden, it's sort of like they're like, hi, I'm so-and-so from the thing.

00:07:39Marc:And you're like, oh, my God.

00:07:41Marc:And then your brain just sort of contracts around that period in your life.

00:07:45Marc:And you travel back in time through their face.

00:07:48Marc:And you travel through the wrinkles on their face to when they were younger or when they were who you thought they were at that time.

00:07:55Marc:And you realize, oh, my God.

00:07:57Marc:I'm fucking old.

00:08:00Marc:And I've got to somehow play Scrabble, do some Sudoku or something to keep this goddamn machine between my ears functioning properly.

00:08:10Marc:Wow.

00:08:13Marc:But it's worse when you don't remember people.

00:08:16Marc:But I've just been through a lot of different phases.

00:08:19Marc:And I guess I got to be proud of that and just acknowledge that, you know, this is where I am in my life and look at it as a good thing.

00:08:25Marc:But, you know, sometimes you just see a person.

00:08:28Marc:You ever that moment where you see a person, you're like, oh, no, that's a portal into a place I don't want to go.

00:08:35Marc:What they are is walking portals to your past.

00:08:38Marc:And some of those, man, some of those can be some gnarly doorways.

00:08:43Marc:That's all I'm saying.

00:08:44Marc:On the show today, Mary Lynn Rice Cub.

00:08:48Marc:How exciting is that?

00:08:49Marc:Speaking of a portal into my past, she used to live with a girl years ago.

00:08:53Marc:She used to live with Sarah Silverman and this other girl, Tracy, who I was crazy about.

00:08:58Marc:It's so bizarre.

00:08:59Marc:And I know you guys know this from listening to this show, just how many people... It's interesting to me how many people I've come in contact with or spent time with or been around at different junctures.

00:09:12Marc:Wow.

00:09:13Marc:Wow.

00:09:13Marc:I really want to get Dave Chappelle on the show.

00:09:16Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:09:16Marc:Yeah, that'll happen.

00:09:18Marc:But Mary Lynn, we have a little bit of past, but there's just these different periods when everybody was younger and kids.

00:09:25Marc:And I'm just not there anymore.

00:09:27Marc:I'm starting to realize I am the age I am.

00:09:29Marc:I'm definitely starting to realize that.

00:09:31Marc:Things are looking a little old.

00:09:34Marc:All right, let's talk to Mary Lynn.

00:09:41Marc:You've been around a long time now.

00:09:45Yeah.

00:09:45Marc:You're no youngster.

00:09:47Guest:No, certainly I'm not.

00:09:48Marc:You know, there's still a lot of mystery around the Mary Lynn Rice Cub situation, I think.

00:09:55Guest:Yeah.

00:09:56Guest:There's so much mystery.

00:09:57Marc:Who the hell is she?

00:09:59Guest:You'll never know.

00:10:00Guest:You'll never know.

00:10:01Marc:Have you been to your Wikipedia page?

00:10:04Guest:Is that what you're doing right now?

00:10:06Marc:No, I'm just saying, yeah.

00:10:08Guest:Does it say I'm very skilled at guitar and speak different languages?

00:10:12Marc:Do you?

00:10:13Guest:No, not at all.

00:10:15Marc:Of course I don't.

00:10:16Marc:At the bottom.

00:10:19Marc:No, it doesn't say that.

00:10:20Guest:Oh, okay.

00:10:20Guest:Somebody took that out.

00:10:21Marc:Did you ask him to take it out?

00:10:23Guest:No.

00:10:24Marc:I've had that problem.

00:10:24Marc:Rice Cup dated music producer John Bryan for five years.

00:10:29Marc:During a time I missed the show, he also dated David Cross.

00:10:31Marc:I knew that.

00:10:32Marc:I knew both of those.

00:10:33Guest:Thanks for researching on me.

00:10:35Marc:I don't research.

00:10:36Marc:Her son, Valentine Anthony.

00:10:38Marc:All right, we're going to have to talk about that name.

00:10:41Marc:She married her boyfriend, Matthew, August 1st, 2009, in an impromptu wedding, which has a link.

00:10:48Guest:It does?

00:10:49Guest:Link to a picture?

00:10:51Guest:Did you click on it?

00:10:51Marc:No, I think it's just a link to impromptu.

00:10:55Marc:In case you're unclear on what that word means.

00:10:59Marc:An impromptu wedding in Las Vegas, so let's click impromptu.

00:11:01Guest:Impromptu means neither of their parents were there.

00:11:04Marc:Yeah.

00:11:05Guest:And everyone was very upset.

00:11:07Guest:But they already had a child out of wedlock.

00:11:10Marc:Were they upset?

00:11:11Marc:Of course they were.

00:11:12Guest:Of course.

00:11:13Guest:And now that I have a kid, I mean, I can't imagine.

00:11:16Guest:I would wring my son's neck if he did that.

00:11:18Guest:Like, I get it, but, you know, it happens.

00:11:21Marc:Did you apologize?

00:11:22Guest:Yeah, you know, I tried.

00:11:25Marc:How long were you with him, though, before you married him?

00:11:29Guest:I was with him for a little over a year.

00:11:32Marc:And then you got pregnant and you were like, let's do it?

00:11:35Marc:Or you already had the kid?

00:11:36Guest:No, we got pregnant three months after dating.

00:11:39Marc:Oh.

00:11:39Guest:How do you like that?

00:11:40Marc:That's fine.

00:11:41Marc:I mean, it happens.

00:11:42Marc:Was it on purpose?

00:11:43Guest:It was impromptu.

00:11:46Marc:I like that.

00:11:49Guest:Were you surprised?

00:11:50Guest:It was an impromptu pregnancy.

00:11:51Marc:Yeah.

00:11:52Guest:That's fantastic.

00:11:53Guest:I'm done.

00:11:54Guest:Goodbye.

00:11:54Guest:That's all I needed from today.

00:11:57Marc:Well, look, I honestly...

00:12:00Marc:I mean, shit, I feel like I've known you forever because I kind of have.

00:12:03Marc:I remember when, you remember when I dated Tracy Katsky for 10 minutes?

00:12:07Marc:Of course I do.

00:12:08Marc:And you all lived in that Montessori school looking apartment where everybody was finger painting and cutting things up and playing guitar.

00:12:15Guest:I actually built a tent over my bed, which Sarah Silverman's mother bought me a love seat that pulled out into a little bed.

00:12:23Guest:And I built a tent over it at one point for privacy.

00:12:26Yeah.

00:12:26Guest:How old were you guys?

00:12:28Guest:I don't even know why they put up with me.

00:12:31Guest:It was Tracy Katzi's place, and she had Sarah Silverman coming from New York, and they were going to be roommates.

00:12:36Guest:They kind of knew each other, and they took me in.

00:12:38Guest:I must have been 26.

00:12:39Guest:I mean, old enough to... Not build a tent in your room?

00:12:43Marc:Yeah.

00:12:44Marc:Finger paint and stuff.

00:12:45Marc:I don't know what was happening there.

00:12:47Marc:I just remember that there was a lot of painting and things.

00:12:49Marc:It was like a crafts, an ongoing crafts project.

00:12:52Guest:Yes, it was.

00:12:53Marc:And then the first time I saw you do real stand-up,

00:12:58Marc:Well, the first time that I found myself kind of... Have you ever seen me do real stand-up?

00:13:02Marc:I saw you do what you do.

00:13:04Marc:You're one of those people where it's sort of like, all right, well, this isn't going to be normal.

00:13:07Marc:So I knew that you were gifted and sort of a savant of sorts.

00:13:11Marc:I decided when I first saw you that I was dealing with maybe an autistic person.

00:13:16Guest:Oh, my God.

00:13:20Marc:Did you ever feel that way about yourself?

00:13:22Guest:I can't even look at you right now.

00:13:23Guest:Oh, are you mad at me?

00:13:24Guest:No.

00:13:25No.

00:13:26Marc:But that was sort of your thing, right?

00:13:29Marc:Kind of like, you know, mildly autistic.

00:13:30Guest:I can't play with this that someone else's fingers have been on.

00:13:33Guest:Can I have my own brand new paperclip to hold on to?

00:13:35Marc:You want something to bend and twist?

00:13:37Marc:I don't even know where that came from or what it was originally.

00:13:39Marc:I don't even think it was a paperclip.

00:13:41Guest:So, Marc Maron says I'm a savant.

00:13:43Guest:Where do you come from, man?

00:13:47Guest:What'd you say?

00:13:47Guest:Autistic?

00:13:48Marc:Borderline autistic.

00:13:49Marc:Maybe you were.

00:13:50Marc:Maybe you were just young.

00:13:51Guest:I think I had problems communicating and I needed to perform to expel something.

00:14:00Guest:I came from performance art.

00:14:03Marc:Oh, that's okay.

00:14:04Guest:From art school.

00:14:05Marc:Oh, really?

00:14:05Marc:That explains a lot.

00:14:07Marc:Does it?

00:14:07Marc:Yeah, because it was so smart and so interesting.

00:14:09Marc:I'll never forget that fucking show you did in Aspen where you actually had a giant set list behind you.

00:14:16Marc:Do you remember?

00:14:17Marc:It was like either a poster or projection.

00:14:19Guest:I did some pretty sweet things.

00:14:20Marc:That was great.

00:14:21Marc:I thought that was genius.

00:14:23Marc:Like, that was the first time I really realized, like, holy shit, this is all by design.

00:14:28Marc:She's not, like, you know...

00:14:30Marc:Going home and talking to her fingers.

00:14:33Guest:Well, I mean, I don't have a straight line of thought.

00:14:36Guest:I was trying to put pieces together and I also knew that, you know, I was always frustrated.

00:14:44Guest:I'd sit down and try to write a joke and that would never happen.

00:14:47Guest:So when I got the laughs, I wasn't sure sometimes why people were laughing or where it was coming from.

00:14:53Guest:And so the only way that I could figure that out was by trial and error.

00:14:57Marc:Right, and were you able to repeat it?

00:15:00Guest:Yeah, eventually.

00:15:01Guest:I would say a good 10 years into it, I was like, oh, that's my persona, to be uncomfortable, and I get laughs from that.

00:15:12Guest:It was a little bit, I did a lot more conceptual stuff, but what I realized was that the conceptual stuff kind of was to not really be me.

00:15:24Guest:on stage.

00:15:25Marc:Do you remember the show I'm talking about?

00:15:26Marc:Do you remember doing a large, I feel like it was almost a large poster of what seemed to be a handwritten set list?

00:15:34Guest:Yeah, when I was in art school, I had one day built a podium out of cardboard and had a hanger that I used as a pointer.

00:15:43Guest:And you know, when people did performance art, there was like the guy taping his genitals and putting lipstick on.

00:15:50Marc:You knew that guy?

00:15:51Guest:He was my first boyfriend.

00:15:54Marc:There's always one of those guys in art school.

00:15:57Marc:So he was that guy?

00:15:58Guest:There were a bunch of pieces like that.

00:15:59Guest:There was a guy who locked us out of the room and had a bread machine and then came in and gave us all bread and then told us that like chipped off paint was in the bread and that was his piece.

00:16:07Guest:There was a lot of stuff like that.

00:16:09Guest:And every time I went to do a piece, it would always be performer audience oriented.

00:16:14Marc:But that's so limited, that art school world, isn't it?

00:16:17Marc:But it's so fun, right?

00:16:19Guest:It was very maddening because I came from Detroit where I was learning the fundamentals of drawing and design, which was mind-blowing to me because I knew nothing.

00:16:28Guest:I was like, oh, I didn't really know what a sculpture was.

00:16:32Marc:Well, let's go back then.

00:16:33Marc:So where'd you grow up?

00:16:35Guest:Trenton, Michigan.

00:16:36Marc:Is that anything?

00:16:37Marc:What was that?

00:16:37Marc:Was that an automobile?

00:16:38Guest:Suburb of Detroit.

00:16:39Guest:Automobiles, yes.

00:16:40Guest:Your dad was in the auto racket?

00:16:42Guest:My dad worked at the... Steel car.

00:16:50Guest:Just completely... Machine.

00:16:52Guest:Exactly.

00:16:53Guest:Power plant, the electrical power plant.

00:16:55Guest:I think because I was ready to talk about something else, and then I went to the most basic thing, and it was just completely gone.

00:17:01Guest:Gone?

00:17:02Marc:What kind of name is Rice Coven?

00:17:04Marc:How do you spell it again?

00:17:05Marc:Czechoslovakian R-A-J-S-K-U-B.

00:17:07Marc:I know.

00:17:07Marc:I always fuck that up.

00:17:08Marc:Do you?

00:17:09Marc:Or you got the hang of it by now?

00:17:11Guest:I'm getting better.

00:17:12Guest:I'm getting better.

00:17:14Marc:It's a Czech name?

00:17:15Guest:It's a Czech name.

00:17:16Marc:And you grew up in a Catholic Czech household?

00:17:20Guest:Yes.

00:17:21Guest:Okay.

00:17:21Guest:Yes.

00:17:22Guest:My parents both abandoned their Catholicism.

00:17:25Guest:That's probably a relief.

00:17:26Guest:Angry about it.

00:17:27Guest:Oh, really?

00:17:27Marc:At least my mom was angry about it.

00:17:29Marc:They didn't practice it enough?

00:17:31Marc:Or angry about Catholicism.

00:17:33Marc:Angry about Catholicism generally, yes.

00:17:35Marc:And you got brothers and sisters?

00:17:36Guest:Two older sisters.

00:17:37Guest:What about you?

00:17:38Marc:Got a little brother.

00:17:39Marc:Two and a half years younger than me.

00:17:41Marc:We're a lot alike.

00:17:42Guest:How do you do podcasts every day?

00:17:44Marc:How do I do them every day?

00:17:46Marc:I don't do them every day.

00:17:47Marc:I put up two a week.

00:17:49Marc:But it's a lot of work.

00:17:50Marc:It is my job in entertainment.

00:17:52Marc:This is my life in entertainment right now, Mary Lynn.

00:17:56Marc:This is what I've made for myself.

00:17:58Guest:I love it so much.

00:17:59Marc:Where were you today?

00:18:01Guest:Oh, I was telling you that I had that audition that didn't work out.

00:18:05Marc:You didn't go to the audition?

00:18:07Guest:Yeah, I told them I'm not coming.

00:18:09Guest:I told the network I'm not coming.

00:18:10Guest:No, they called it off.

00:18:12Guest:Really?

00:18:12Guest:Yeah, they're going with someone Latina.

00:18:16Marc:Really?

00:18:16Marc:Yeah.

00:18:17Marc:So you can't even beat yourself up about that?

00:18:19Marc:There's nothing you can do to make yourself Latina.

00:18:21Guest:I did start to go into a bit of a depression, and then that's getting old.

00:18:26Guest:Even beating myself up is getting kind of old.

00:18:28Marc:About that kind of stuff?

00:18:30Guest:yeah it's hard to not you know my my ego wants to say what do you mean how are they not going to hire me i would do great at this right and you know right a draw up the contract type situation and then the network was like so you know i do feel like i've doesn't my work count for something or my experience and at the end of the day not really maybe sometimes

00:18:52Marc:I just got mad for you.

00:18:54Marc:I had similar sort of I had a similar conversation with my people today about something.

00:18:58Marc:And I've been through this shit for a long time.

00:19:01Marc:And you've obviously had more success with television than I ever had or may ever will have.

00:19:06Marc:But nonetheless, the rejection of it, even despite it's our life, it always is very fucking personal.

00:19:13Guest:Yeah.

00:19:14Guest:Yeah.

00:19:14Guest:It's weird because you shouldn't take it personally, but you can't help but take it personal because when you're in that situation, you have to make yourself vulnerable every time when you go in for an audition and you just have to do that over and over again.

00:19:26Marc:And you're uniquely you.

00:19:28Marc:So how could they like when they don't want you, even if it's just because of an ethnicity switch up, you're still they've rejected everything you are and everything that has made you you.

00:19:38Guest:The writers were pretty cool.

00:19:39Guest:They rewrote the part to be like a Czech reference.

00:19:43Guest:And there's like a thing where one character brings over, like he's made it to ingratiate himself to the wife.

00:19:49Guest:And they put like a, they researched a reel.

00:19:51Guest:So that was really sweet and complimentary.

00:19:53Guest:But then the network still said.

00:19:55Marc:So what are they going to do now?

00:19:56Marc:Make it one of those Latino memorial candles?

00:19:58Guest:what are they going to rewrite it for her tamales huh let's be a little more racial racist bordering on all right so art school how did that happen in high school were you like complete nerd social i was doing acting in high school really but then i didn't want to go to school for acting and then one day i looked around and my good friends were going to like u of m and i was like oh i forgot to like

00:20:23Guest:study and apply and know what being smart is so I don't want to get a job and I don't want to be around actors like I'll go to art school yeah and so I went for painting and it was amazing and wonderful did you do uh were you like serious about painting

00:20:40Guest:Yeah, I still do it.

00:20:41Guest:I started, that's what I was saying before, learning all the foundation stuff, and then I kind of got sort of agitated.

00:20:50Guest:You know, like they'd have you draw a skeleton, and you'd learn how to do everything perfectly, and I just went,

00:20:56Guest:I couldn't sit there and do that.

00:20:58Guest:I was like, I get what I would have to do to get really good at this.

00:21:02Guest:And I was like, good enough.

00:21:03Guest:And then I just ended up going to San Francisco and finishing the school there.

00:21:07Guest:That's where I met.

00:21:08Guest:Everybody in San Francisco was very different than Detroit.

00:21:10Guest:They were like,

00:21:11Guest:I'm the best, like really full of themselves as artists, which seemed to be a prerequisite for getting to the next place in your career, which I never really understood that.

00:21:22Guest:But it's not dissimilar to a comedian.

00:21:26Marc:You're saying it's all about confidence and attitude, confidence and attitude and selling yourself.

00:21:31Marc:Right.

00:21:32Marc:The talent, you know, amount of talent is negotiable.

00:21:35Guest:Yes.

00:21:36Marc:You're not going to be just rewarded for talent.

00:21:37Marc:Actually, if you're really talented, but a social retard, you probably will get not noticed until you're dead.

00:21:43Guest:Yes.

00:21:44Marc:Right.

00:21:44Guest:You can be really talented and just do it at your house.

00:21:47Marc:But with like painting, do you love painting?

00:21:50Guest:I do love painting a lot.

00:21:52Guest:But I find that painting has the same frustrations as any type of writing or performing in terms of approaching it for me.

00:22:00Guest:I wish I could just go, oh, I'm going to relax and paint.

00:22:03Guest:But I just see it as another set of creative problems so that when I go to do it, I have to really get into it and, you know, have a whole experience with it.

00:22:15Guest:Well, yeah, but also just mentally, even if it might look like a mess to somebody else, I've entered into it as an equation that I want to solve somehow.

00:22:26Marc:You're not dabbling.

00:22:27Marc:This is life or death.

00:22:29Guest:Yeah, I guess.

00:22:31Marc:kind of no no i know exactly what you're saying is that that it's important to you it's not a relaxing behavior like i know yes people that they they get into their 60s or 70s and they're painting the beach and they're okay with their kind of crappy representation of the beach because they're like i spent nine hours and i feel better i relax and you're not that person no i'm not that person what kind of do you what kind of things do you do abstract

00:22:54Guest:They have a lot of words, a lot of childish marks on them.

00:22:58Guest:I was a fan of watercolor.

00:23:01Guest:I like things that are light, but I tend to sort of make a mess and then try to rescue it and have it have some sort of emotive quality.

00:23:10Marc:Is that like a baseline for everything in your life?

00:23:14Guest:Yeah, it's almost, yeah, it kind of is.

00:23:16Guest:Like the painting is, I'm saying, here's a problem and I'm trying to come out of it in a happy way.

00:23:20Guest:And I want to show that.

00:23:23Guest:Or it's like an emptying of the mind.

00:23:24Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:25Guest:It's similar to making the list of like, here's what's going on in there.

00:23:29Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:29Guest:Can you figure it out?

00:23:30Guest:Checklist.

00:23:30Guest:Have a laugh about it?

00:23:31Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:32Guest:Checklist.

00:23:33Guest:Hello.

00:23:35Guest:To the audience, how's everyone doing tonight?

00:23:40Guest:That was like one of my first sets for a while was just, what are you guys looking at?

00:23:46Guest:What do you want?

00:23:48Guest:I mean, for like two years, it was...

00:23:51Guest:Pretty much that.

00:23:54Guest:I just couldn't get past that basic, let alone say what I think or feel about something.

00:24:01Marc:Because I try to think about, do you look at paintings?

00:24:04Marc:Do you go?

00:24:04Marc:Is it a thing that you enjoy doing?

00:24:06Guest:I don't go very often, but when I do, I remind myself how much I like it.

00:24:12Marc:Yeah, because sometimes when people, because I don't know a shitload about art, but I grew up, my mom painted, and I grew up being brought to museums and looking at paintings, and I do have painters that I really like.

00:24:23Marc:But then a lot of times, I've been trying to figure out, when you look at painters that you might not know or people who are on the same level as you, how do you know when something's good or not?

00:24:32Marc:It's only because, how do you know when something's good?

00:24:36Marc:How do you judge a painting?

00:24:37Marc:Just because, for me, it's like, even if I don't like it, if it feels like it's finished,

00:24:42Marc:You know, like I can look at it and like, well, this is exactly what the artist wanted to do.

00:24:47Marc:It's a good painting.

00:24:47Guest:I'm just a sucker for anything that's emotive.

00:24:52Guest:I get angry sometimes when people like stuff that's photographic because that seems easy, even though it's not at all to paint like that.

00:24:59Marc:Right.

00:24:59Marc:It's from a person that's probably the opposite of a motive, just a complete control freak.

00:25:03Guest:Yeah, and I also don't like really minimal stuff because you can't see the struggle or the personality.

00:25:11Guest:But by the same token, I really like impressionism or some watercolors.

00:25:16Guest:I just like the interplay that you see the human hand on it.

00:25:20Marc:Do you like Basquiat?

00:25:21Yeah.

00:25:21Guest:Of course.

00:25:23Guest:Duh.

00:25:23Guest:He's the guy, right?

00:25:24Guest:I love him.

00:25:25Marc:Yeah.

00:25:25Guest:And he really is all that when you see it in person.

00:25:28Marc:I know.

00:25:29Marc:I know.

00:25:29Guest:It really is pretty mind-blowing.

00:25:32Guest:It's got both the prophetic informational savantness, but it also feels like a kid.

00:25:40Guest:Right.

00:25:41Guest:It makes you feel like...

00:25:42Guest:well, I want to pick up something and paint, which is a great thing to impart to people.

00:25:46Guest:What a wonderful thing.

00:25:48Marc:There's that balance to the canvases.

00:25:49Marc:Even though there's all this chaos, everything just sits perfectly.

00:25:52Guest:You look at it and you're like, that's so wrong, but so right.

00:25:56Guest:That's one of my favorite things, so wrong, but so right.

00:26:00Marc:When you were in art school, I want to know more about the performance art element.

00:26:04Marc:What were some of the shows you did in art school?

00:26:07Guest:I remember building some cardboard houses and building a sill and putting like shards from the metal shop in there.

00:26:15Guest:And then I would put the snacks are in the sill.

00:26:17Guest:The snacks are in the sills, everybody.

00:26:19Guest:That is that sort of like mildly autistic.

00:26:22Guest:Here's the snacks arrows.

00:26:23Guest:But then you're supposed to like go get the snack and be like, I got my hand.

00:26:28Guest:That'll teach you.

00:26:30Guest:This is art.

00:26:32Guest:Art bleeds.

00:26:33Guest:And there was one where I dipped trash into gray paint and wrapped it up as if I was at a fish market.

00:26:40Marc:Hand it out.

00:26:41Marc:I don't know.

00:26:42Marc:Did you actually do the fish barking?

00:26:44Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:26:45Guest:Get your trash.

00:26:46Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:26:48Guest:It all had handmaid signs and stuff.

00:26:51Guest:There was one that I was, I can't.

00:26:53Marc:Did your boyfriend really tape his genitals and put on red lipstick?

00:26:57Guest:No, that wasn't my boyfriend.

00:26:58Marc:Was it some guy?

00:26:59Guest:Although I did date a guy who pierced his penis while we were dating and then wanted me to hang things off of his penis.

00:27:07Marc:How'd that go?

00:27:12Marc:Did you do it?

00:27:13Guest:I can't talk about it.

00:27:14Guest:I have a son now.

00:27:16Guest:Yeah, I did it.

00:27:17Guest:Of course you did it.

00:27:17Guest:Of course.

00:27:18Marc:Yeah.

00:27:18Marc:What kind of things?

00:27:19Marc:Heavy things?

00:27:20Guest:Just like scissors.

00:27:25Marc:Christmas ornaments?

00:27:26Guest:Like a paper clip of a Christmas ornament.

00:27:28Guest:No, he didn't.

00:27:30Guest:A carrot.

00:27:32Marc:Oh, no.

00:27:33Marc:Still talk to that guy?

00:27:35Guest:No.

00:27:36Guest:God, I've had so many, like, thank God.

00:27:39Marc:That's over with boyfriends?

00:27:40Guest:Thank God that's over with.

00:27:42Guest:He was the guy that ended up being on speed, but I didn't know it, and I didn't know what speed was.

00:27:48Guest:Right.

00:27:48Guest:And I'd be like, why doesn't he want to be touched?

00:27:51Guest:Yeah.

00:27:52Guest:It must be me.

00:27:53Marc:Why is he sweating so much?

00:27:54Marc:How come he never sleeps?

00:27:56Marc:Oh, boy.

00:27:57Marc:So when was the first big break in terms of like, because I really feel like I've known you forever, but I don't think we ever really had conversations because I was always a little intimidated because I didn't know because you were so darty.

00:28:12Guest:Am I darty now?

00:28:12Marc:No, you've grown up, and you're very focused, and you seem to have your life together.

00:28:17Guest:Oh, thanks, Mark.

00:28:18Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:28:20Marc:Thanks a lot.

00:28:21Marc:You look like a grown-up person.

00:28:22Marc:No, it's very good, though.

00:28:23Guest:Oh, you're being kind, because really you would... Darty is because I'm sitting here, and you're being respectful for me.

00:28:30Guest:You thought I was a fool.

00:28:33Marc:No, not at all.

00:28:33Marc:I thought you were a genius.

00:28:35Marc:Yes.

00:28:35Marc:And I didn't know how to... Yeah, you fooled me.

00:28:38Marc:You fooled me.

00:28:40Marc:No, I was like, oh, my God, she's like some sort of like a gifted person.

00:28:44Marc:She's hearing voices, you know, because you are.

00:28:48Marc:But I didn't know how to talk to you.

00:28:49Marc:That's all.

00:28:50Guest:Yeah.

00:28:50Guest:I still don't know how to talk to you.

00:28:52Marc:Seriously?

00:28:53Guest:No, I don't know.

00:28:54Marc:I mean, do you have different types of conversations with other people?

00:28:57Guest:Yeah.

00:28:58Guest:Yeah.

00:28:58Marc:I want to get there.

00:28:59Marc:Let's get there.

00:29:00Guest:I know you do, and I know you would, and that's what you do.

00:29:06Marc:Might not happen though, that's what you're telling me.

00:29:09Marc:So what was the first big comedy break?

00:29:11Marc:Because I know you're one of those people that everybody's like, oh, what are we gonna do with her?

00:29:15Marc:What did they figure out?

00:29:16Guest:Everyone's still saying, what are we gonna do with her?

00:29:19Guest:She's so great.

00:29:20Guest:I'm a big fan of yours.

00:29:23Marc:What are we gonna do with her?

00:29:25Marc:We did the Mr. Show.

00:29:26Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:29:27Guest:Was that the first thing?

00:29:28Guest:That was my first big break, for sure.

00:29:31Guest:I was similar to the set I just described to you in one of the live Mr. Show when the executives were in the audience and they were showing them a live show.

00:29:40Guest:I had a bit where I came out and taped my genitals and told people, these are not for you.

00:29:45Guest:And people laughed.

00:29:49Guest:And I knew I was being funny, but again, it was just like this expulsion of feeling that was almost so uncomfortable and so wrong, so wrong that it became right.

00:30:02Guest:You pushed through.

00:30:04Guest:I pushed through.

00:30:05Marc:You transcended good and right and wrong.

00:30:08Guest:Those guys you know they gave me parts.

00:30:12Guest:Yeah, and I finally somehow figured out that it was acting But I mean I remember early on getting an audition for a Meredith Baxter Bernie pilot for the nervous Secretary But I really was that nervous right in the audition yeah, and then they said you're great you're going to producers and I went to the next floor and I went in and

00:30:30Guest:And I just looked up, and I saw the mom from Family Ties, and I just completely fell apart.

00:30:35Guest:And then I saw her go on her face, like, feel bad for me.

00:30:39Guest:No, she felt bad for me.

00:30:41Guest:And then I left, and I felt bad.

00:30:43Guest:And my manager drove me.

00:30:45Guest:I didn't have a car.

00:30:47Marc:Could you drive?

00:30:49Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:30:50Guest:I'm from Detroit.

00:30:51Marc:Yeah, you have to drive.

00:30:52Marc:So the nervousness was real, but it was also an act, but then it got to the next level, and you choked at that one.

00:30:59Guest:Yes.

00:31:00Marc:And you dated David Cross during the Mr. Show?

00:31:02Guest:I did.

00:31:02Marc:I remember that.

00:31:03Marc:He was very in love with you.

00:31:05Guest:Yes, I was in love with him.

00:31:06Marc:You guys get along all right?

00:31:07Guest:We do.

00:31:07Guest:Things are better now.

00:31:09Guest:It took a few years.

00:31:12Guest:Getting fired from Mr. Show.

00:31:14Marc:Did you meet him on Mr. Show or before?

00:31:17Guest:No, we met in LA doing live performance stuff where we met everybody.

00:31:21Guest:It was awesome.

00:31:22Guest:It was a really, really awesome time.

00:31:25Marc:That was that whole crew.

00:31:26Marc:Yeah, Dana Gould and Sarah and everybody, right?

00:31:30Guest:Yeah, it was Kathy Griffin and Karen Kilgara from Bob Odenkirk and Tenacious D. It's wild.

00:31:38Marc:Does it feel like a long time ago?

00:31:39Guest:Well, I'm just having a weird thing where, and I've been kind of cramming listening to your podcast.

00:31:45Marc:I don't know why.

00:31:46Guest:Well, because they're enjoyable.

00:31:48Marc:Oh, good.

00:31:48Marc:Not because you were worried about being on it.

00:31:50Guest:No, I would never.

00:31:52Marc:Did you listen to people you know?

00:31:54Marc:And were you being nostalgic?

00:31:56Guest:Yeah, a little bit.

00:31:57Guest:I mean, it took me a long time to not be nostalgic.

00:32:01Guest:And I think having a kid and getting married certainly took me farther away from that.

00:32:06Guest:But even before that, it took me years to separate myself from that.

00:32:10Marc:From that time?

00:32:12Guest:Yes.

00:32:13Marc:I don't really know how to deal with it.

00:32:15Guest:You don't know how to deal with it?

00:32:16Marc:Personally.

00:32:17Marc:Because I'm getting older and I'm starting to actually feel older.

00:32:22Marc:And I know that like I wasn't really part of that whole group.

00:32:25Marc:I was sort of on the outside of it because I was still out there doing stand up and I didn't know how to have friends.

00:32:29Marc:And I was a big, cocky asshole.

00:32:31Marc:And I'd come in every once in a while and then I'd leave.

00:32:35Marc:But I'm just sitting here nodding.

00:32:37Guest:Yes.

00:32:38Marc:Yes, exactly.

00:32:39Marc:And but I have regrets about that because, you know, Dave and I were close and I knew everybody.

00:32:44Marc:And but I never felt really that close to everybody.

00:32:47Marc:And I was sort of out doing my own thing.

00:32:49Marc:But I missed I guess I feel sometimes I wish I was more capable of being just a fun guy hanging out.

00:32:57Guest:Yeah, I remember you with Tracy Katsky.

00:33:00Guest:You were dark and intense.

00:33:02Guest:Yeah.

00:33:03Guest:Neurotic.

00:33:04Marc:Yeah.

00:33:05Marc:I was so into her.

00:33:06Guest:She was really into you.

00:33:07Marc:It was so difficult that time.

00:33:10Marc:Oh, God.

00:33:11Marc:I flew her to Michigan once.

00:33:13Guest:Did you really?

00:33:14Marc:Yeah.

00:33:15Marc:Because I was sort of like, I don't think I was married, but I definitely had another girlfriend.

00:33:19Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:20Guest:I remember that, too.

00:33:21Marc:And I completely fell for her.

00:33:23Marc:And I was on the road and it wasn't easy to do that stuff.

00:33:27Marc:I flew her for one night to Michigan because I just had to see her.

00:33:32Marc:It was very passionate and very obsessed.

00:33:35Guest:I remember that about you and loving that about you and also hating that about you.

00:33:40Guest:There's a part of me that's like,

00:33:42Guest:so in awe and intimidated and then there's another part of me that's like come on are you kidding me like there's a the core of me is very pragmatic and very simple and very midwestern in that sense of like you don't do that but then there's another part of me that just wanted that's that like

00:34:02Guest:savant thing for lack of a better word although I don't think that's the case at all but I just needed to experience life so I would throw myself in all these and exercise my own neurosis because I didn't know how otherwise I would have just been completely never left

00:34:18Marc:Well, do you look at your relationships with people like, you know, even like spending that time across and then, you know, dating John Bryan?

00:34:23Marc:I mean, these guys are in their fields, you know, fairly significant.

00:34:27Marc:Did you like find yourself taking shit in?

00:34:30Marc:I mean, you've gone out with a couple of fairly tormented, brilliant people and yourself are a bit tormented and brilliant.

00:34:37Marc:I mean, how did that like did that work?

00:34:40Guest:Well, I think I lived in it for a long time.

00:34:43Guest:And with David, he was always really generous and treated me as an equal, although I would put him on a pedestal.

00:34:52Guest:And I did the same thing with John Bryan.

00:34:54Guest:Way had him on a pedestal and was just like... Doesn't everybody?

00:34:58Guest:Wanted to be validated by him.

00:34:59Guest:And like, wow, this guy loves me.

00:35:02Guest:This is so amazing.

00:35:03Guest:And then one day, it just became very pragmatic.

00:35:07Guest:And I was like, what...

00:35:08Guest:Who's going to clean the house?

00:35:10Guest:You know, like, what are we doing?

00:35:12Guest:And I would be carrying like mulch by myself, like trying to do the lawn.

00:35:16Guest:And there was this other part of me that just wanted to settle down and knock it off.

00:35:22Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:23Marc:Yeah, I definitely understand that.

00:35:25Marc:And I don't think that people, I think that struggle in people is something that they just have to work through it.

00:35:31Marc:So it's not some sort of conspiracy in the sense that like I was with somebody for a long time who thought they wanted one thing.

00:35:38Marc:Or presented themselves that way.

00:35:39Marc:And then all of a sudden you hit that wall where you're like, this is not going to be, is this the way it's going to be forever?

00:35:44Marc:I can't do this forever.

00:35:47Marc:Do what?

00:35:48Marc:You know, be sort of living in the shadow of somebody else or trying to chase something down or be something that you're not.

00:35:57Marc:I see what you're saying because you get to that moment where you realize that life is short and you know I'd like to have some you know some things that I want and some stability and be pragmatic right so do you have that now no I don't I wasn't talking about me I was talking

00:36:12Guest:That's why I was like, what exactly are you talking about?

00:36:15Guest:You're just giving an example of people.

00:36:17Marc:I'm putting my past relationship in perspective and accepting what went wrong with it by analyzing the other person.

00:36:25Marc:That's what I'm doing.

00:36:26Guest:In a really diplomatic way.

00:36:30Guest:That's you.

00:36:31Guest:Diplomatic and fun.

00:36:32Guest:Easy breezy.

00:36:33Marc:Was there a point where you're like, I want to have a kid?

00:36:39Guest:No, I never really thought about having a kid.

00:36:42Guest:There was one time where I called my mom and started crying out of nowhere.

00:36:48Guest:I was on the freeway and I called her.

00:36:50Guest:I was on the 110 freeway.

00:36:53Guest:And I said, I'm too old to be a young mother.

00:36:56Guest:But I didn't even necessarily want to be a mother.

00:36:58Guest:I was just having that passage of time thing.

00:37:01Guest:I'm like, oh, I'm not having a baby in my 20s.

00:37:06Guest:And I think with my now husband on some level, not that I tried to do it on purpose,

00:37:14Guest:But clearly, we were both not protecting ourselves.

00:37:19Guest:But I think on some level, I was okay with that.

00:37:22Guest:Not that I went out to do that.

00:37:24Guest:And it was terrible when the baby was born.

00:37:28Guest:It's really, really hard.

00:37:30Guest:And I wasn't one of those people who had a life by any means that was...

00:37:36Guest:Although I did live in the valley and I had a nice house.

00:37:38Guest:So I was ready.

00:37:39Guest:I was to a point in my life where I was more established and not building a tent around my bed.

00:37:44Marc:Right.

00:37:45Marc:Or painting compulsively.

00:37:46Guest:Or painting compulsively.

00:37:47Marc:All right.

00:37:49Marc:Or dating tormented geniuses.

00:37:51Guest:Yes.

00:37:52Marc:So what was terrible about it?

00:37:53Marc:The actual like having it or just knowing you were going to have it or...

00:37:58Guest:It was when the baby was born and your whole life as you know it is just completely shaken up and turned upside down and pushed all over the place.

00:38:10Guest:Just everything that you want to do, everything that you're doing, you can't...

00:38:15Guest:do any of it i mean even just simply waking up every three hours and being enraged about that and you can't because there's this helpless creature so it pushes your buttons on every level of having to deal with being responsible for something and everything else that you thought had meaning is just stupid yeah

00:38:38Guest:Not has meaning, but that you're worried about.

00:38:41Guest:Oh, this job or this.

00:38:43Guest:It's like, this is a creature.

00:38:45Guest:Everything else is like, who cares?

00:38:47Guest:Who cares?

00:38:48Guest:All these things I was worried about don't matter when your job is to keep something alive and to take care of it.

00:38:56Marc:Yeah.

00:38:57Marc:And it come pretty natural?

00:38:58Marc:I mean, did you think this stuff through or is it just like you were surprised at your own instincts around it?

00:39:07Guest:No, it didn't come natural.

00:39:08Guest:I'm trying to tell you it was hard, and I didn't like it, and I didn't like the kid, and I didn't know what I was doing, and the baby was terrible, and he wouldn't stop crying, and I lost all sense of myself and sense of time.

00:39:23Guest:But yeah, then the instincts kicked in, and now I love it.

00:39:26Guest:How old is he?

00:39:27Guest:Three.

00:39:28Guest:It's awesome.

00:39:30Yeah.

00:39:30Guest:I love it so much.

00:39:32Marc:You do now.

00:39:33Guest:Yeah, he's the greatest guy ever.

00:39:34Marc:The greatest guy ever.

00:39:37Marc:For the first year, not so much.

00:39:38Guest:For the first six months or so.

00:39:40Guest:Quite an adjustment.

00:39:43Guest:Of hugest, massivest, suckiest adjustments.

00:39:46Marc:How was your man in it?

00:39:47Marc:Was he good?

00:39:48Guest:That guy is solid as a damn rock.

00:39:51Marc:He found a solid one.

00:39:52Marc:What does he do?

00:39:53Guest:He is a trainer, which he started to do after we got pregnant because he wasn't really sure what he wanted to do.

00:40:03Guest:And then he almost became a fireman.

00:40:05Guest:And then he almost became a paramedic and went to all these classes.

00:40:08Guest:And then he got certified as a trainer and now owns a small fitness studio.

00:40:14Marc:Holy shit.

00:40:14Marc:So you married a civilian.

00:40:16Guest:Yes, but I met him at the improv.

00:40:19Marc:Right, but it was probably a great decision.

00:40:22Guest:Can you believe?

00:40:23Marc:Yeah, I can definitely believe.

00:40:25Guest:And then when I went to where he's from, it kind of looks like where I'm from.

00:40:29Guest:Right.

00:40:30Guest:Where is that?

00:40:30Guest:Why am I saying right?

00:40:31Guest:He's from Indiana.

00:40:33Guest:Midwest.

00:40:34Guest:And so this crazy guy that I was like, oh, he's hot.

00:40:37Guest:I'm just going to have sex with him.

00:40:38Guest:It turned out to be like the best guy ever because I was kind of rebounding from someone else.

00:40:42Guest:And I was like, I don't even care about this.

00:40:45Guest:But he ended up being really fun, really sweet.

00:40:48Guest:And we have similar backgrounds.

00:40:49Marc:That's amazing.

00:40:51Marc:So you kind of landed good.

00:40:52Guest:I did all right.

00:40:54Guest:I did all right.

00:40:56Marc:That's a great story.

00:40:57Marc:So it's because I actually like hearing stories where there's, especially when I talk to my peers who are, we're all little nuts.

00:41:04Marc:We're comics.

00:41:05Marc:And people who marry into the business, like to me, I just can't see anything but complete, insecure, ego-driven chaos.

00:41:13Marc:Bouncing back and forth constantly.

00:41:16Marc:And to know that you're with a dude

00:41:17Marc:that wanted to be a fireman, seriously, makes me happy.

00:41:21Guest:Hey, thanks.

00:41:22Guest:And thanks for calling me a comic.

00:41:24Guest:I wasn't sure.

00:41:24Guest:Really?

00:41:25Guest:Yeah, because you're like the real deal as far as a comic.

00:41:28Marc:What does that even mean?

00:41:29Marc:I mean, you know, I've been doing it a long time.

00:41:32Marc:You know, it's pretty much what I do.

00:41:35Marc:But you're definitely a comic.

00:41:37Guest:Yeah, I don't know how.

00:41:39Marc:I am.

00:41:39Marc:But that's what you wanted to be.

00:41:41Marc:That's what you started doing.

00:41:42Marc:You chose that stage to make your mark on the world, and it carried you to where you are.

00:41:46Marc:I mean, you've done some roles recently that aren't necessarily comic roles, but you've evolved into that.

00:41:53Marc:I mean, Larry Sanders, that's one of the most important television comedies ever made.

00:41:58Marc:It's pretty cool.

00:41:59Marc:Yeah.

00:42:00Marc:How did that all happen?

00:42:01Marc:Because you followed... Janine...

00:42:04Marc:You were right after Janine?

00:42:06Guest:Do you remember Comedy Product?

00:42:07Marc:Yes, I did Comedy Product.

00:42:09Guest:I did a set on there where Jeremy Kramer gave me this advice because I had all these bits of things.

00:42:16Marc:That was the thing where we did stand-up and a bit?

00:42:18Marc:Like there was stand-up and then we did a sketch or something?

00:42:20Marc:Who made Comedy Product?

00:42:21Guest:There were no sketches.

00:42:22Guest:It was all alternative sets.

00:42:24Guest:Oh, that's right.

00:42:25Guest:It was like black and white.

00:42:26Guest:The background was black and white graphics.

00:42:28Marc:I remember that was the first attempt at capturing alternative comedy on television.

00:42:32Guest:Yeah, and Janine would host.

00:42:33Marc:Yes.

00:42:34Marc:And it was shot at, like, this studio, right?

00:42:36Marc:Yeah.

00:42:36Guest:And they built it.

00:42:36Marc:Was Lane Gang involved in that?

00:42:38Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:42:39Marc:Who was it?

00:42:39Marc:Was it for Comedy Central?

00:42:41Guest:Yes.

00:42:41Marc:Okay, I remember.

00:42:42Marc:They built, like, a club environment that just sort of floated in the middle of the studio, right?

00:42:48Guest:Yeah.

00:42:49Guest:Did they let people drink?

00:42:50Marc:I think they did.

00:42:51Guest:Like, red wine and beer or something?

00:42:52Marc:I think they actually had, like, a fake bar there or something.

00:42:55Marc:But it was that...

00:42:57Guest:Are we going to be okay?

00:42:58Marc:Yeah.

00:42:59Marc:It happens around here.

00:43:01Marc:But I remember it because you walk in and the place was too big to sort of really house this sort of club environment.

00:43:07Marc:It was like this weird kind of isolated club environment in the middle of a hangar.

00:43:11Guest:You made it all cramped on purpose.

00:43:12Guest:Right, right.

00:43:13Guest:Why can't I just stand over there and be comfortable?

00:43:15Marc:I remember.

00:43:16Marc:And there was a lot of people standing around the back because we didn't want to sit in there because that was for the shot.

00:43:21Guest:Yeah.

00:43:21Marc:So that's where you met Janine.

00:43:24Guest:Yeah, I knew her before that.

00:43:25Guest:Right.

00:43:25Guest:I remember she told me I was funny one time when I was doing one of these sets.

00:43:30Guest:And a lot of times I feel really angry at Jerry Seinfeld for his like number system and saying like, you got to have an opener and all this stuff.

00:43:37Guest:Because I never, not that there's any even loose comparison, but I never know what I'm going to say.

00:43:44Guest:Like what the first thing I'm going to say when I go out there.

00:43:47Guest:Yeah.

00:43:48Guest:But anyway, she told me I was funny one night and that was like really wonderful.

00:43:53Marc:And then when she, so who had that job on Larry Sanders as his assistant?

00:43:59Marc:It was you, right?

00:44:00Guest:It was her.

00:44:01Guest:And then she left the show.

00:44:04Guest:Right.

00:44:04Guest:And I took over.

00:44:05Marc:Right.

00:44:06Guest:And they watched, John Reggie and Gary Shanling watched my tape that Dave Rath gave them of my comedy product.

00:44:11Guest:Uh-huh.

00:44:12Guest:Which that's what I was starting to tell you was like a bunch of these like nonsensical sort of punchlines strung together.

00:44:18Guest:Right.

00:44:18Guest:And sort of weirdly defensive conceptual things.

00:44:21Guest:And there was some art school jargon in there.

00:44:23Guest:And Jeremy Kramer said, just tell the audience you took ecstasy at the beginning.

00:44:29Guest:And that was my first like, oh, you have to put a frame around it and let people know what you're doing.

00:44:36Guest:Because if I don't give them a little hand into it, they're just worried for me and they don't know what I'm doing and they don't know what's going on.

00:44:42Guest:But in my mind, I'm like, this is awesome.

00:44:44Guest:But then I never understood that interface for the longest time.

00:44:50Guest:Yeah.

00:44:51Marc:That you needed to bring them into it somehow?

00:44:54Guest:Or just talk to them.

00:44:56Guest:That was completely foreign to me.

00:45:00Marc:And that's the set that got you that show?

00:45:02Guest:Yes.

00:45:03Marc:Now, that was a huge break, really.

00:45:07Guest:Huge, yeah.

00:45:07Marc:Mr. Show is exciting, but that must have been pretty wild.

00:45:10Marc:What was your relationship with Shanley?

00:45:13Guest:The first interview I had with him was him sitting across from me.

00:45:16Guest:John Reggie was in the room, and he's like...

00:45:19Guest:we just made faces at each other it was the best audition situation ever and then they would look at each other and kind of like giggle and then he'd go well so what are you doing and i'm like i don't know what are you doing pretty much my set recreating i don't know and we just went back and forth like that for about five minutes and then they looked at each other and then they called and said that

00:45:40Guest:They wanted me for the best ever, right?

00:45:44Guest:Yeah.

00:45:45Guest:And then one time he gave me a really big acting lesson.

00:45:49Guest:He pulled me aside.

00:45:50Guest:I was in a scene and he goes, what are you thinking when you're saying that?

00:45:55Guest:And I'm like, I don't know.

00:45:56Guest:And he was like telling me subtext that you have to have something else going on.

00:46:00Guest:And that was like a huge brick falling on me in a good way.

00:46:06Marc:Had you not taken any acting classes?

00:46:08Guest:I did like in high school only.

00:46:11Marc:Yeah.

00:46:11Guest:And so I had a weird basic.

00:46:13Guest:I knew what blocking meant and things like that.

00:46:17Marc:That's where you move to your mark, right?

00:46:20Marc:That's where you move to your mark.

00:46:22Marc:You had that under control.

00:46:23Guest:But I just, I mean, I knew how to say things in a natural way, but I didn't really have an interior world.

00:46:29Guest:I think part of me, I was just so scared that I just showed up and like tried to deliver.

00:46:35Marc:But I think that's what comics do.

00:46:36Marc:I think that the comics that can act are people that can get in the present.

00:46:39Marc:It's really just about being present and doing it.

00:46:42Guest:Yeah, and I was definitely present, and I definitely had a persona, but that was what I'm describing with my stand-up.

00:46:48Guest:I didn't know what it was, and I didn't know that, again, I could give the frame around it, or, oh, you can make choices of how you're feeling and say something different.

00:46:56Marc:So when he gave you that note, did you find that you were fairly quickly able to do that?

00:47:00Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:47:01Marc:Huh.

00:47:01Marc:For sure.

00:47:02Marc:That's sort of a gift.

00:47:04Marc:I mean, because even if it's like like if I wanted to like say to you like, hey, how's it going?

00:47:09Marc:And but the subtext was sad.

00:47:12Marc:Like if you told me like, well, you know, you're really hiding a lot of sadness.

00:47:15Guest:Say how's it going?

00:47:16Guest:And you're and you're sad.

00:47:18Marc:I'm going to try.

00:47:18Marc:See, I don't know if I can do it.

00:47:21Guest:It's already great.

00:47:24Guest:You just swallowed and looked down.

00:47:26Guest:I can tell it's going to be way too mopey before you even open your mouth.

00:47:30Marc:No, wait.

00:47:31Marc:You're not a good teacher.

00:47:32Marc:Hold on.

00:47:34Marc:Hey, how's it going?

00:47:39Marc:Unfortunately, it's not too far away from what I am anyway.

00:47:43Marc:My subtext is always like, okay, so whatever you're going to be saying, you're going to be thinking about yourself.

00:47:50Guest:Pretty good.

00:47:51Marc:Yeah.

00:47:52Guest:Have you ever taken an acting class?

00:47:54Marc:Oh, yes, I have.

00:47:55Marc:I took an acting class.

00:47:56Marc:I took some in college and I took some, you know, when I lived in San Francisco.

00:47:59Marc:And, you know, I was always a guy that they, you know, I do scenes and eventually the direction would become, you know, like you should just let it out.

00:48:07Marc:You know, just like one time a guy in an acting class had two other people in the class hold me back and made me try to get across the room doing a monologue.

00:48:19Guest:Ooh, I like that.

00:48:20Marc:Yeah.

00:48:22Guest:What do you think that was speaking to?

00:48:24Guest:That you had stuff you needed to let out?

00:48:26Marc:Yeah, you know, and then there was a crying.

00:48:28Marc:Did you do that in class?

00:48:30Guest:Did you cry and punch a wall?

00:48:31Guest:No, I was never that guy.

00:48:33Marc:I was never like the, you know, I'm just an angry guy.

00:48:36Marc:There's always that guy in acting class.

00:48:37Marc:I really wanted to try to connect to the sadness and the ability to be vulnerable in front of people.

00:48:43Guest:Oh, so that's where your thing comes from and your stumbling block is your anger.

00:48:47Marc:Right.

00:48:47Marc:Well, it masks everything.

00:48:48Marc:Wealth of anger.

00:48:49Marc:Right.

00:48:50Guest:But you don't really want to show that.

00:48:52Marc:Well, no, I can show that.

00:48:53Marc:That's not a problem.

00:48:54Marc:What is underneath anger is generally fear and sadness.

00:48:57Marc:So why not sort of open those up?

00:49:00Marc:I think I've just started to do that in my stand up.

00:49:03Marc:but I was I think the connection I was trying to make is like you're on stage and you're having a burst of anger but you're in your real life you're like I don't want to be like an angry guy but that's what is like kind of some awesomeness in me and awfulness yeah yeah yeah but how did you make the like so right after he told you that the whole thing just popped open for you you're like oh I just connect you know look at the script this is calls for this and then I can attach that feeling to it that's fucking that's a gift

00:49:33Marc:So did you have fun with Gary after that?

00:49:36Marc:Making faces for an audition is hilarious.

00:49:38Marc:He's such an odd, funny guy.

00:49:39Guest:Yeah.

00:49:40Marc:I love talking to him.

00:49:41Guest:I love him, but he's somebody that I would... I've had lunch with him and stuff, but I'm still nervous to talk to him.

00:49:48Marc:Well, you get into a different time zone with him.

00:49:51Guest:Yeah.

00:49:51Marc:Because you've kind of got your own time zone, too.

00:49:53Marc:So I think that might be kind of interesting to see.

00:49:56Marc:Because he's sort of like, you know, you're definitely like kind of looking for footing with Gary sometimes.

00:50:01Guest:I think my perception of you is that you like take over and you expound on stuff.

00:50:07Guest:And that's when I was listening to your podcast.

00:50:08Guest:Like I really love when you got into it with Norm MacDonald.

00:50:12Guest:Like that took a turn.

00:50:14Guest:Yeah, it was interesting.

00:50:14Guest:Awesome.

00:50:15Guest:I was like, oh yeah, they're talking about Rodney Dangerfield.

00:50:17Guest:I'm doing something else.

00:50:18Guest:And then when it like...

00:50:20Marc:Someone got real there.

00:50:21Marc:I, you know, it was like, that was a pretty wild thing.

00:50:24Marc:Like, cause I knew when it was happening, cause I had no idea what, um, you, you, like with all of us, I mean, if I don't know people, like I know him, I met him, we've run into each other, but I don't really know him, but you've, you've got an idea of who people are in your head.

00:50:38Marc:And all of a sudden when you're talking to them and it's, it's not your idea at all.

00:50:43Marc:And you're, you realize, I don't know them at all.

00:50:45Marc:And this is really,

00:50:46Marc:becoming something, you know, like, what's going on?

00:50:48Marc:It was mind-blowing.

00:50:50Guest:And you made him go back to that moment, like the gambling thing.

00:50:53Marc:Yeah.

00:50:54Guest:You were, like, some kind of a weird guru.

00:50:58Guest:Because you're like, okay, but know what happened.

00:51:00Guest:And he went there.

00:51:02Guest:Yeah, step by step.

00:51:03Guest:And it was, like, really fascinating.

00:51:05Guest:And it made a lot of sense.

00:51:07Guest:And you could feel it and, like, sense it and understand it.

00:51:10Guest:That was cool.

00:51:11Guest:I have a perception that you guys are, like, bros and you...

00:51:15Guest:You get each other on a certain level and like that you're used to talking and you know what you sound like and you know what your thoughts are and then I get nervous because I don't know what my thing is.

00:51:27Marc:What do you mean?

00:51:27Marc:He's very clear about your thing.

00:51:29Guest:Oh, okay.

00:51:30Marc:Yeah.

00:51:30Guest:Then never mind.

00:51:31Marc:Now, okay, so there's this...

00:51:34Marc:because i i don't want to like do a disservice to you because you have a lot of huge fucking um you know very committed fans that i think you built uh over the long arc of your 24 yeah like my fans if if anyone's listening to this they're a fan of mine they're gonna be like i fucking hate her now no they're not she's like talking all this bs why doesn't she talk about the 24 movie is that is that happening

00:51:57Guest:I don't know.

00:51:59Guest:I keep hearing that the script is done, but I don't hear anything in any official capacity.

00:52:05Marc:But I've got to be honest with you.

00:52:06Marc:I didn't watch it.

00:52:07Marc:Yeah.

00:52:08Marc:But I know people love it.

00:52:09Guest:Oh, you know what?

00:52:10Guest:I would listen to your Bryan Cranston as well.

00:52:13Guest:And that is my favorite show ever.

00:52:15Guest:And if I see any of those characters in real life, even listening to it and hearing his voice, I was like, oh my God, that's totally him.

00:52:21Guest:And that's how people feel about 24.

00:52:23Guest:And that was the first time where I go...

00:52:24Guest:oh i mean i knew it and i was like very respectful and i love all the fans because usually they just but they see you as chloe awesome but now i understand exactly what that feeling is because they you know and that's it um it's kind of scary because i did i actually did a radio tour this morning and you never know what you're gonna get it's always a surprise that people are like i know you from larry sanders and they talk to me like a person and then other people are just still like so i'm 24 you know chloe chloe and all this stuff which is great it's just odd and

00:52:54Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, but you understand that relationship from the other side, though.

00:52:58Guest:Yeah, I just now got it.

00:53:00Guest:Because people just were so connected to that show.

00:53:03Guest:And 24 had that same quality, but, you know, obviously on a broader world political scale.

00:53:10Guest:But that same anxiousness and cliffhanger.

00:53:15Guest:And you couldn't wait to watch the next one.

00:53:16Marc:And they completely built a relationship with you as a character.

00:53:20Guest:Yeah, and the cool part about that is that there's so much plot in that show and there are so many different characters that I didn't even really have that much screen time.

00:53:29Guest:So it's just like the power of a visual or like a little gesture can tell so much or I would have small scenes and people would just be like...

00:53:38Guest:oh my God, when you said that to this guy and it kind of functioned in a cool way because there was so much going on and all this information that you had to process and then it would go to my scene where I'm like reacting to somebody in like a curmudgeonly way.

00:53:51Marc:Right, but everything had built up to that.

00:53:53Guest:Yeah, it was like a relief point.

00:53:55Marc:Right, you were the one that relieved the entire narrative trajectory.

00:54:00Guest:Sometimes.

00:54:01Marc:Yeah, so do you have fans that come up to you and frighten you?

00:54:06Guest:yeah i mean yes not so much anymore mostly it's just people excited and loving the show and they want to talk about how much they love the show um i i kind of berated this i feel bad these guys were talking to me this morning and i was talking about 24 even though it's like the show's been off the air what was that junket for

00:54:27Guest:Uh, cause I'm doing a web series called Dickie right now about a 40 year old woman who hasn't left home and her parents want a boy.

00:54:35Guest:So they named her Richard.

00:54:36Guest:So her name's Dickie and she doesn't have a boyfriend, doesn't have a driver's license and goes on Facebook and shows her.

00:54:43Guest:Oh yeah, her asshole?

00:54:44Guest:To try to get a boyfriend.

00:54:46Guest:Just her asshole?

00:54:48Guest:Well, she's like posing sexy because she sees other girls posing sexy and she's like, oh, I got it.

00:54:53Guest:I'm going to out-sexy all y'all.

00:54:55Guest:And then she doesn't really know how to act in her face with the world.

00:54:59Guest:It's a character near and dear to my heart.

00:55:01Guest:So I was doing that and people want to talk about 24, which I don't mind, but then at one point the guy, he's like...

00:55:06Guest:So Kiefer, man, did he like show up wasted on the set or whatever?

00:55:10Guest:And I was just like, really?

00:55:11Guest:Yeah.

00:55:12Guest:Really?

00:55:13Guest:Yeah.

00:55:13Guest:And I was like, I don't know.

00:55:16Guest:Like, it's not really any of my business to talk about his sobriety or not.

00:55:21Guest:And I just was like, I can't believe you're asking me about this.

00:55:25Marc:Well, all they're trying to do is they court controversy.

00:55:30Marc:But it's so boring.

00:55:33Guest:And it's also like, why are you asking me that now?

00:55:36Guest:And Kiefer, especially Kiefer, he's very upfront with the stuff that he does.

00:55:41Guest:So it's like, this is interesting to you right now, really?

00:55:44Marc:Yeah.

00:55:45Marc:Did you get along with him, though?

00:55:47Marc:in general, like the cast?

00:55:50Marc:I mean, like how much, because I think a lot of people don't realize that there's an illusion to what we do.

00:55:58Marc:And to be working with an ensemble of people, for the most part, not as tight an ensemble as some shows, but for as long as you did, you do have relationships with people.

00:56:08Marc:but there's also just the working element.

00:56:11Marc:A lot of times casts are just sort of like, all right, see you later.

00:56:14Marc:Good day at work.

00:56:15Guest:Kiefer and I like each other.

00:56:17Guest:I would go so far to say we love each other in that respect, but at the same time,

00:56:23Guest:I really care about him, but we our relationship never changed and it never went past a certain point.

00:56:29Guest:And I think I was always a little bit intimidated by him, which he would probably say, oh, why would you be that?

00:56:37Guest:But we never fully hung out or fully had a conversation.

00:56:41Guest:Right.

00:56:42Guest:The entire time.

00:56:43Guest:right and a lot of the other people that were on the crew and cast it was like a family and you watched you know over that course of doing this intense show over that many years you watch you know marriages and deaths and births and um you do get to know everybody uh but yeah but it was still a little distant yeah yeah it's odd because i did i did a radio show with a guy for a year and a half we never after off the air

00:57:08Marc:Hardly talked at all.

00:57:10Guest:Did you get personal on the air or was it about other stuff?

00:57:12Guest:It was about other stuff.

00:57:13Marc:But you know, we were like four hours on the air every day with each other and a couple hours of prep before.

00:57:19Marc:But like when we were done, we were done.

00:57:21Marc:And I mean, there's something to be said for that.

00:57:23Marc:I don't know how much baggage you want to bring to a situation or how much tension you want to bring to a situation.

00:57:28Marc:But I think some people forget like on some level, no matter how great the show is or how glamorous they think our lives are, your life is, it's a job.

00:57:37Guest:Yeah.

00:57:38Guest:A lot of people, you know, on the set, they're spending more hours out of their day with you than they are their own families.

00:57:44Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:57:45Guest:There's a certain amount of...

00:57:48Marc:Were you sad when it was over?

00:57:50Guest:Yeah, it was really sad.

00:57:51Guest:Yeah.

00:57:51Guest:Really sad.

00:57:52Marc:What was that business with you and Rush Limbaugh?

00:57:58Guest:We got flown to Washington, D.C.

00:58:00Guest:to do a panel on terrorism at Republican Think Tank.

00:58:04Guest:Yeah.

00:58:05Guest:And I've started writing about this.

00:58:06Guest:I did a comedy set about this a lot just because it's such a great, odd, weird thing that happened.

00:58:12Guest:Yeah.

00:58:13Guest:But it's like, you know, I went into it like, oh, yeah, of course, I'll go to Washington, D.C.

00:58:18Guest:I have no business being there, no interest in any of it.

00:58:21Guest:Don't know what's going on.

00:58:22Marc:Why did they ask you?

00:58:22Marc:Just because you were on a show about terrorism?

00:58:24Guest:People are huge fans of that show.

00:58:26Guest:And, you know, the showrunners of 24 were very politically savvy.

00:58:31Guest:One of them's really more left and one of them is hardcore Republican.

00:58:37Guest:Right.

00:58:37Marc:They work together?

00:58:39Guest:Yeah.

00:58:39Guest:Yeah, it's awesome.

00:58:41Guest:It's pretty powerful.

00:58:42Guest:And so one guy's a fan of Rush Limbaugh, but we had a lot of fans in Washington.

00:58:49Guest:So I think they structured it like there was going to be this panel think tank, but really everyone just wanted to show up and see...

00:58:56Marc:You guys.

00:58:57Marc:Yeah.

00:58:57Marc:You and Rush and whoever else.

00:58:59Guest:Who else was on the panel?

00:59:01Guest:A couple of actors from the show.

00:59:03Guest:Uh-huh.

00:59:03Guest:Carlos Bernard and Greg Itzen and a couple of the producers.

00:59:08Guest:Yeah.

00:59:08Guest:And some Republican thinkers.

00:59:10Guest:Uh-huh.

00:59:12Guest:And Rush Limbaugh was moderating and it was called 24, An America's Image in Fighting Terrorism.

00:59:19Guest:Fact, fiction, or does it matter?

00:59:22I'm like,

00:59:22Guest:What am I doing here?

00:59:24Guest:Why would I have anything to say about this?

00:59:28Guest:But Rush Limbaugh was introducing everybody, and he was behind me, and he's being very effusive, and he loves the show, and he loved my character, and, like, really nice guy, you know?

00:59:36Guest:Did you ever see that movie, The King of Scotland?

00:59:39Marc:The Edie Amin movie?

00:59:41Guest:Yeah.

00:59:41Guest:Okay, never mind.

00:59:43Marc:Why?

00:59:44Guest:I'm not making a comparison to Idi Amin at all.

00:59:50Guest:That's not what I meant.

00:59:51Guest:But I did feel a little bit like, hey, I'm just here to have fun.

00:59:56Guest:And I have no idea what- He really represents.

01:00:00Guest:And everybody who knows me is just like, how could you do that?

01:00:04Guest:And there is something attached to me of certain political beliefs.

01:00:08Guest:What do you mean?

01:00:11Guest:And people, I mean, I guess I am more liberal and leftist.

01:00:16Guest:Yeah, of course.

01:00:17Guest:And peace-loving.

01:00:18Marc:Yeah.

01:00:20Marc:Yeah.

01:00:21Marc:Yeah.

01:00:22Marc:So your friends were mad at you, but did Rush know that?

01:00:24Marc:I mean, what ultimately happened?

01:00:26Marc:Was it because there was gossip around it, correct?

01:00:28Marc:I mean, he...

01:00:28Guest:Yeah, he was like introduced me, came up behind me and he kissed me on the lips.

01:00:32Guest:And there's a bank of photographers that took pictures.

01:00:34Guest:And so I was like, again, this like innocent, like, oh, whatever.

01:00:39Guest:He's just, it's like a cocktail party.

01:00:40Guest:You know, you think someone's going to kiss you on the cheek and they kiss you on the lips.

01:00:43Guest:But like, he's more savvy than me.

01:00:45Guest:He's got to know that there's photographers there.

01:00:48Marc:You didn't realize it was a cultural kiss of political death.

01:00:53Yeah.

01:00:53Guest:Yes.

01:00:54Marc:Well, you were getting the Sicilian kiss of death from the great Republican beast.

01:01:00Guest:And I got calls like NPR wanted to talk to me and all this stuff.

01:01:03Guest:And I just didn't.

01:01:05Guest:I mean, what do I?

01:01:07Marc:Again, they're but they're courting controversy, too, because like the way I can completely understand the way you're characterizing it, you're just sort of like, oh, there's this guy.

01:01:14Guest:And I really do think he's like.

01:01:16Guest:nice pleasant enough and was saying hi and was a fan of the show and there's Chloe O'Brien I don't think it meant anything more than that but at the same time he knew maybe he's just so used to having that much attention that it doesn't mean anything to him that photographers are there but it's like you know we're about to get our picture taken I somehow didn't maybe I should have known at that point so he took advantage

01:01:44Guest:Perhaps.

01:01:46Guest:But for what?

01:01:46Guest:I mean, you can't even categorize it as that.

01:01:49Guest:For what is there to take advantage of?

01:01:51Marc:Well, he's like a subterranean.

01:01:52Marc:Publicity?

01:01:53Marc:Well, yeah, in a way.

01:01:55Marc:Radio personalities are sort of subterranean personalities.

01:01:57Guest:But it is a pretty amazing piece of publicity.

01:02:01Marc:No, I know, but what I'm saying.

01:02:02Guest:I still talk about it.

01:02:02Guest:It's still interesting.

01:02:03Marc:Well, because he is the mouthpiece of the right, and he's huge.

01:02:10Marc:I mean, he's a very powerful force in political culture, right?

01:02:15Marc:But the truth of the matter is, he's a cave dweller.

01:02:17Marc:He's a fucking radio personality.

01:02:19Marc:He's a guy that is not Hollywood.

01:02:21Marc:He probably shits on Hollywood all he can in his diatribes.

01:02:25Guest:So there's this opportunity to have this... Yeah, look at me.

01:02:28Marc:I'm mixing with the pretty people.

01:02:31Marc:I you know and I'm sure he are you saying I'm pretty yeah you are pretty sure you are but yeah I mean I like it's weird because you know a lot of people would come to an interview with you with all this stuff but I my memory of you and my knowledge of you it still goes back to it you know to when we were kids in a weird way you like I don't I don't I don't I'm not you know what I mean I'm not sort of like there's no filters here you're just Marilyn from when we did comedy

01:02:55Marc:So I'm just asking you questions, like I don't know, because I don't know a lot of things.

01:02:59Guest:I feel the same way.

01:03:00Guest:I saw Zach Galifianakis the other night.

01:03:02Marc:When we were at UCB, did you do comedy?

01:03:04Guest:No, I did not.

01:03:05Guest:I haven't done comedy in a while.

01:03:06Guest:It made me want to get back up there.

01:03:08Guest:That's what you were saying, yeah.

01:03:09Guest:I did that sort of loose pilot idea with Bob, and I hadn't seen him or heard his thoughts in a while.

01:03:18Guest:I left before you got there.

01:03:19Marc:How was that for you?

01:03:20Marc:Did he talk to you like he was your dad?

01:03:21Marc:No.

01:03:21Marc:Mary Lynn, how are you?

01:03:23Guest:He actually stopped doing that, but he did, I remember one time I had him over my house in Venice and I bought a small house.

01:03:31Guest:We were meeting about an independent movie or something and he said, Mary Lynn, how did you?

01:03:39Guest:And I said, Bob, I've been working for like eight years and I made a little bit of money and I grew up a little bit.

01:03:48Guest:But I can remember him making jokes like about my hair and like, where are the rats going to live when I was getting my hair and makeup done?

01:03:55Guest:I'll never forget that.

01:03:56Guest:He's like, Mary, where the rats have nowhere to go now?

01:04:00Guest:He's got your hair done.

01:04:01Marc:He's got such a weird, almost paternal Midwestern thing going.

01:04:04Guest:I love it.

01:04:05Guest:But he did do a little bit of like, you OK?

01:04:07Guest:Is that OK?

01:04:07Marc:Which I love.

01:04:08Marc:Well, I mean, I guess we're at that age where we ask that.

01:04:12Marc:Is everything okay?

01:04:13Marc:Yeah.

01:04:13Marc:We hear random things.

01:04:15Marc:I know you had a baby.

01:04:16Marc:Is that working out okay?

01:04:17Marc:I mean, where have you been?

01:04:19Marc:We live in the same town.

01:04:20Marc:It's weird.

01:04:21Marc:I think that's where the nostalgia comes in, where there was a time we were all up each other's asses a lot.

01:04:26Guest:Oh, my gosh.

01:04:27Guest:I saw everybody.

01:04:28Guest:All the time.

01:04:28Marc:Every night.

01:04:29Marc:Breakfast, lunch, dinner, shows.

01:04:31Marc:Yeah.

01:04:31Marc:And then all of a sudden everybody grows up and you're like, you just read the trades or hear a weird news item.

01:04:36Marc:And you're like, oh man.

01:04:37Guest:And I saw Zach and I had to make an effort to go, Zach, congratulations.

01:04:42Guest:Because I knew I would just treat him like I just saw him yesterday.

01:04:45Guest:And I was like, so amazing.

01:04:49Guest:And he was like, oh, like you almost couldn't even hear it.

01:04:52Guest:And I was like, I haven't really seen you since you've been like on another planet of this great success.

01:05:00Marc:Yeah.

01:05:00Marc:He's pretty humble, though.

01:05:01Marc:Usually, he seems pretty consistent.

01:05:04Guest:Yeah, he's very consistent.

01:05:05Marc:He seems exactly the same.

01:05:08Guest:Maybe a little bit calmer.

01:05:09Marc:Calmer and also highly aware of his status, but not in an arrogant way.

01:05:15Guest:Yes, absolutely.

01:05:15Marc:It's not beyond him, too.

01:05:18Marc:If you approach him with a certain amount of ribbing to tell you that he will tell you he's a millionaire and it's fine.

01:05:24Guest:Did you say that to him?

01:05:25Guest:No.

01:05:26Marc:He said it on stage once.

01:05:27Marc:He said, I don't care.

01:05:28Marc:I'm a millionaire.

01:05:30Guest:That's awesome.

01:05:31Guest:so what what's very similar to Jessica Simpson I just like to draw the correlation between Zach and Jessica Simpson who was like I have a shoe line you can say whatever you want about me I'm selling shoes and it's awesome so what's happening now other than the web series seriously

01:05:50Marc:24 movie maybe.

01:05:52Guest:24 movie maybe.

01:05:54Guest:Web series.

01:05:55Guest:I'm going to start vlogging as soon as I get my t-shirt that says professional vlogger.

01:06:00Marc:Vlogger.

01:06:00Guest:I've only done one so far.

01:06:01Marc:Are people still using that word?

01:06:03Marc:I haven't heard that in a while.

01:06:04Marc:Vlog.

01:06:04Guest:I hate it, but I'm going to just embrace it.

01:06:07Marc:Isn't it just called like vids, videos?

01:06:10Guest:That's so much better.

01:06:11Marc:Yeah, vlog.

01:06:12Guest:I'm gonna get a shirt that says professional vlogger in cursive writing.

01:06:17Marc:And you're just gonna, what, sit and go, today, I... Yeah.

01:06:22Marc:Where are you gonna do this?

01:06:24Marc:Got a plan?

01:06:25Guest:I did one in my office.

01:06:28Guest:I tried another one in the grocery store, but what ends up happening is you try to be off the cuff and then you watch it and go, that's not good.

01:06:36Guest:You want to redo it.

01:06:37Guest:So I'm trying to find that line between how I would sound and what I would say.

01:06:43Marc:I introduced you to Chris Hardwick, who you know, as one of the great entrepreneurs.

01:06:49Guest:Why don't I call him?

01:06:50Guest:Maybe I will.

01:06:51Marc:What's he going to say?

01:06:53Marc:He's gonna say, yeah, we're starting a Nerdist, that's a new part of the Nerdist empire, the video part.

01:07:00Guest:And I should be a part of that wave?

01:07:01Marc:That's right.

01:07:02Marc:All right.

01:07:03Marc:No, you've got money, you've got friends, you might as well just have somebody do all that shit for you.

01:07:07Marc:There's no reason you gotta be walking around with a flip cam on yourself at the supermarket.

01:07:12Guest:So what?

01:07:12Guest:I have somebody meet me there and film it?

01:07:15Marc:Yeah.

01:07:15Guest:All right.

01:07:16Marc:Because then if you pick the right person, maybe you'll have a little bit of a relationship with them that might draw some things out of you.

01:07:21Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:23Guest:See, you're smart.

01:07:24Marc:Did you put those up on YouTube?

01:07:26Guest:I only put one up so far.

01:07:27Marc:How'd it do?

01:07:28Guest:Good.

01:07:29Marc:Yeah?

01:07:30Guest:Yeah.

01:07:30Marc:People were into it?

01:07:31Guest:Super into it.

01:07:32Marc:Really?

01:07:33Guest:Yeah.

01:07:33Marc:Chloe fans?

01:07:34Guest:Probably.

01:07:35Guest:Yeah.

01:07:36Marc:What'd you talk about?

01:07:36Guest:I just, it was only like 30 seconds long.

01:07:39Guest:And I just said watch Dickie, but it was kind of funny.

01:07:41Marc:Where can you see Dickie?

01:07:43Guest:At my damn channel.

01:07:44Guest:Have you heard of it?

01:07:44Marc:Yeah.

01:07:45Marc:It's all original content.

01:07:46Marc:We're doing a thing with them.

01:07:47Guest:Okay.

01:07:48Guest:You are.

01:07:48Guest:That's right.

01:07:49Guest:I heard that.

01:07:50Guest:Yeah.

01:07:50Guest:They're super cool.

01:07:51Marc:Yeah.

01:07:51Marc:That dude's all right.

01:07:52Marc:Yeah.

01:07:53Marc:He's a good guy.

01:07:53Marc:Big fan of the podcast.

01:07:55Marc:All right.

01:07:55Marc:So how many episodes of the web series have you done?

01:07:59Guest:A six.

01:08:00Marc:Did you tweet that shit?

01:08:01Guest:Yeah, I'll tweet that shit.

01:08:03Guest:I can tweet that shit.

01:08:04Marc:Where's your kid right now in the car?

01:08:06Guest:He was at play school.

01:08:08Guest:He's doing your gardening.

01:08:10Guest:He's actually replanting that succulent for you.

01:08:12Marc:I appreciate that.

01:08:13Marc:That's a pretty smart kid.

01:08:14Guest:Yeah, he goes to Montessori.

01:08:16Guest:He knows how to do stuff.

01:08:17Marc:Does he?

01:08:18Guest:Yeah.

01:08:19Guest:He started counting in Spanish.

01:08:21Guest:He was looking at a globe and he's like, Asia and Africa.

01:08:26Guest:And I was like, holy crap.

01:08:27Guest:And then he goes, where's July?

01:08:29Guest:Kind of like that your baby can read thing where you're like, oh my God.

01:08:35Guest:He's a genius.

01:08:36Guest:He's memorizing it.

01:08:37Guest:He's like, well, where's July?

01:08:38Marc:That would be on this.

01:08:40Marc:It's a calendar.

01:08:43Marc:It's all going in.

01:08:44Marc:Well, I think we've had a lovely conversation.

01:08:46Marc:Do you feel satisfied with it?

01:08:48Guest:I feel pretty good.

01:08:49Guest:I mean.

01:08:50Marc:What are some of the, let's go over it and maybe make a list.

01:08:53Guest:I feel like it was really like a nice chat.

01:08:56Guest:And I think I was nervous that you would like, oh Mark's gonna intimidate me or I'll feel stupid.

01:09:04Guest:But I guess it's your show.

01:09:05Guest:You have to like be nice to people.

01:09:07Marc:Have I done that on shows you've listened to?

01:09:08Marc:I've never made anyone feel stupid.

01:09:10Marc:I mean, I think sometimes when I don't love a person, but I respect them, that sometimes I can be a bit prickly.

01:09:16Marc:But I don't ever go out of my way to make people feel stupid because I think you're very smart.

01:09:19Marc:I don't think I could make you feel stupid.

01:09:22Marc:Okay, so that's one note.

01:09:24Marc:I did not make you feel stupid.

01:09:27Marc:What else didn't?

01:09:27Guest:I think I make me feel stupid.

01:09:29Marc:Aww.

01:09:34Marc:Well, what are we going to do about that, Mary Lynn?

01:09:36Marc:I think you should be very happy with yourself.

01:09:38Guest:No, I am really happy.

01:09:39Guest:I don't even know why I'm saying that.

01:09:41Guest:It's stupid for me to say that.

01:09:42Guest:I'm super happy.

01:09:42Marc:See, there you just did it.

01:09:43Marc:You just said it's stupid to me to say that.

01:09:46Marc:You make yourself feel stupid.

01:09:48Guest:Because I think it comes from that thing I was talking about of not saying what I think and feel.

01:09:53Guest:And I feel like I'm just starting to do that.

01:09:55Guest:And I'm way too old to be just starting to do that.

01:09:59Marc:In this conversation or in your life?

01:10:01Guest:In my comedy trajectory.

01:10:03Guest:So that when I talk to you, I go back to being that style.

01:10:08Marc:So you don't know whether or not you'll get on a comedy stage and go back into your old kind of distracted, nervous character.

01:10:15Guest:Well that's always there, but my new.

01:10:18Marc:But it's not here now, that's on stage.

01:10:20Guest:Correct, my new thing that I wanna do is represent myself more.

01:10:26Marc:That's why I admire that.

01:10:27Marc:What's the plan on that?

01:10:29Guest:What's the plan?

01:10:30Marc:Yeah, how are you gonna approach that?

01:10:31Marc:Just by talking about your life a little more.

01:10:34Guest:Yeah.

01:10:35Marc:That's great.

01:10:36Guest:Finding the point of view, you know.

01:10:38Marc:Yeah.

01:10:39Marc:Have you thought about bringing your child on stage with you and doing a team thing before he learns how to be a person?

01:10:45Marc:It just sit there and go, say the July thing.

01:10:49Marc:I think that'd be a very unique approach to doing stuff about children.

01:10:53Guest:That's the worst idea ever I've ever heard in my life.

01:10:55Marc:Okay.

01:10:56Marc:When are you going to do it?

01:10:58Guest:Well, I got a UCB date.

01:10:59Guest:I was inspired the other night, and then I immediately was like, oh, man.

01:11:02Guest:To do an hour?

01:11:03Guest:No, no, no.

01:11:04Guest:Oh, did you do that?

01:11:05Guest:Start working it out.

01:11:06Guest:Okay.

01:11:07Guest:And I want to do the vlogging to try to just get a running train of thought going.

01:11:14Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:11:14Guest:Let's see what happened.

01:11:15Marc:Have you done stand-up much since you were on 24?

01:11:18Marc:Are you talking years that you haven't done it really?

01:11:20Guest:No, no, no.

01:11:21Guest:I did it consistently through 24, and then I kind of dropped off, and then I did a one-woman show, which was like a year and a half working and putting it up, and that was awesome.

01:11:29Guest:I kind of remember that.

01:11:29Guest:What was that about?

01:11:30Guest:It was about not liking the baby.

01:11:32Guest:Oh, right, right.

01:11:33Guest:And not being like a good wife or mother.

01:11:36Guest:And then, of course, in the end, everything is going to be okay.

01:11:40Guest:Yeah.

01:11:41Guest:And then I kind of stopped doing it after that.

01:11:46Marc:Did you find that a lot of fans from 24 were like, you know, there's Chloe.

01:11:50Guest:Yeah.

01:11:51Guest:But they listened and they liked it.

01:11:52Guest:There were certain nights, like I remember doing a show in Chicago.

01:11:55Guest:I was like, what is, something's off.

01:11:57Guest:Because I know this is funny and interesting.

01:12:00Guest:And then there was a group of people that created enough of a vortex.

01:12:03Guest:I shouldn't say that because fans are cool.

01:12:05Marc:No, I know, but they have certain expectations.

01:12:07Guest:But they're standing outside and they're just like, can you sign this?

01:12:09Guest:Like they were just not interested in...

01:12:12Marc:In what you were saying.

01:12:13Guest:At all.

01:12:13Marc:They just wanted to see you.

01:12:14Guest:Yeah.

01:12:14Marc:The character they love.

01:12:16Guest:Oh, that's what that vibe was.

01:12:17Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:12:18Guest:Yeah.

01:12:18Guest:There's nothing I could have said.

01:12:20Guest:They just.

01:12:20Marc:And they probably weren't that mad either.

01:12:22Marc:Right?

01:12:22Marc:They just wanted to see you.

01:12:23Marc:Yeah.

01:12:24Marc:That's cool.

01:12:25Guest:That's cool.

01:12:26Marc:All right.

01:12:26Marc:Well, I had a good talk here.

01:12:28Marc:I just want to make sure before I turn them off that you're satisfied.

01:12:32Guest:I feel pretty good.

01:12:33Marc:Thank you, Mary Lynn.

01:12:34Guest:Thank you.

01:12:40Marc:That's it.

01:12:40Marc:That's our show.

01:12:41Marc:Mary Lynn.

01:12:42Marc:It was great talking to her.

01:12:43Marc:I think she's a genius.

01:12:46Marc:Very inspired comedic talent that woman is.

01:12:50Marc:What else have I got for you?

01:12:51Marc:We already covered it.

01:12:52Marc:Neptune Theater this Saturday.

01:12:54Marc:No, this Friday, November 25th.

01:12:57Marc:Bring cash if you want stuff because my iPhone is not here yet.

01:13:01Marc:Also, the Arlington Drafthouse, December 2nd and 3rd in Arlington, Virginia, outside of D.C.

01:13:07Marc:Okay, I'll talk to you on Thanksgiving.

01:13:10Marc:I will talk to you Thanksgiving morning if I don't have a lovely holiday.