Episode 209 - Charlie Day and Glenn Howerton
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck Knicks?
Marc:What the fuck Ohioans?
Marc:No, that one's been scratched for what the fuck eyes.
Marc:What the fuck Ricans?
Marc:What the fuck Amalins?
Marc:What the fuck Amalins?
Marc:I have one fan in Guatemala who insisted on me bringing that up.
Marc:I don't even know if I said it right.
Marc:This is Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I am in a hotel room in Nashville, Tennessee, and things are not well inside of me.
Marc:That is not an emotional observation.
Marc:It is not I don't I don't think I'm going to die.
Marc:But I think last night I came close.
Marc:I'll bring that up.
Marc:I'll bring that back around in a minute.
Marc:I seem to be having a lot of near death experiences to the point where I think I may be being a bit dramatic.
Marc:But, you know, I'll let you to be I'll let you be the judge.
Marc:I put a lot of things into my body.
Marc:For better or for worse.
Marc:But man, something went in last night that I don't know how else to phrase it, but it fucked my shit up.
Marc:I mean, literally, you know, I don't want you.
Marc:I'm not that kind of comic.
Marc:I don't do that kind of humor.
Marc:So I'm not going to get into that right now.
Marc:I'll bring it around in a minute.
Marc:By the way, Charlie Day and Glenn Howerton are on the show today from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Marc:It's a real treat to talk to those guys.
Marc:I'll be talking to them in a minute from the garage.
Marc:Ryan Singer's here.
Marc:A lot of guys here.
Marc:Only got two mics, but I hope you're doing okay, fellas.
Marc:You guys all right?
Marc:Yeah, we're good.
Marc:You're good?
Okay.
Marc:So we go to Prince's Chicken.
Marc:I'm taken there by people.
Marc:See, I got to go to Prince's Chicken.
Marc:This is hot chicken.
Marc:Hot fried chicken.
Marc:Prince's hot chicken.
Marc:Prince's hot chicken.
Marc:This is regional delicacy.
Marc:I found that now I just use regional delicacies to rationalize sticking bad shit into my mouth.
Marc:But this is hot.
Marc:Someone brought me a cold batch of it to the show the first time I was there, and I took two bites, and I had GI tract problems.
Marc:Well, you were hiccuping.
Marc:The next day.
Marc:Yeah, right when I ate it, I started hiccuping, which happens when it's hot.
Marc:But you'd think that would have been enough for most normal people.
Marc:It was not enough for me.
Marc:I said, I've got to go back and conquer this beast.
Guest:I like how you just threw yourself into the category of most normal people just now.
Marc:Yeah, no, I know that.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I've never been that, but I like to have a frame of reference because I think some people who listen might be normal and some people enjoy hot foods.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But just the fact that I was compelled to go there, I was told by a local that you got to go there late at night because it's in what they call the hood.
Marc:There's a lot of way they code naming black areas here in Nashville.
Marc:I did also have that slight racial issue where I didn't know whether or not I was being racist when I saw.
Marc:First, I said they have really great black people in Nashville, and I didn't know if that was being racist.
Marc:And then I was at a drugstore, and I saw a dude with a natural fro.
Marc:And in my recollection, he had one of them pics in the back of his pocket with a fist, you know, like classic.
Marc:And I said that.
Marc:See, I said that's a classic black guy.
Marc:And I think it is a little racist.
Marc:i don't know i it's i think it only gets racist when you walk around pointing out low classic okay all right maybe maybe i should but he was a classic black guy he's a classic black dude man the full on well i'm not gonna you know i'll get some mail for this i'll get some flack but let's go to princess in the hood where you drive up there's a 400 pound man standing in front of the place with a gun and a tank top and a tank top in his belt in my mind he was smoking a cigar was he not
Guest:I try not to look at people who have tank tops and guns for too long.
Marc:So he's standing in front of the place.
Marc:There's some dudes sitting out front.
Marc:It's definitely a black-owned establishment.
Marc:We're in a black neighborhood.
Marc:But that doesn't really bother me in any way, and it shouldn't.
Marc:We are outsiders to some degree.
Marc:If we weren't, we wouldn't have to drive to that neighborhood and say to ourselves, we're going to that place to get the stuff.
Marc:We wouldn't have to say those things if it was part of our rotation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We all kind of had to get out of the car at the same time.
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:All right, guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's just a big wall of we don't belong here.
Marc:So you walk into this place and it's just it's a shoddy place, but they did have a screen for advertising that was advertising the fact that you could get advertising on that screen.
Marc:And they had you had to walk to the back and there was a window and you had to order and you basically your choices were regular, medium, hot, extra hot pieces of chicken, potato salad and coleslaw.
Marc:Now, I figured I'd had the extra hot that guy brought me, which made me hiccup, so I'm going to go for the hot.
Marc:So I got the hot, and you don't eat meat, but we had convinced you that this was a special thing.
Guest:Well, it was a special thing.
Guest:I figured, you know, when's next time I'm going to be at this place?
Guest:So I got medium because I didn't want to experience what you experienced.
Marc:Right, so me and Chad, what's his last name?
Guest:Chad Ryden.
Marc:Chad Ryden, good guy.
Marc:Been through a lot.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, his heart's heavy.
Marc:World's weighing on Chad.
Marc:Weighs heavy on Chad.
Marc:He's got burdened.
Marc:but he's a funny guy makes him very funny guy that burden makes him funny yeah me and him get the hot and him and i sit down and i take one bite of this shit and my my face was burning under my skin all right my mouth was burning i felt like my tongue was swelling i couldn't talk and it was to the degree that you know i'm sitting with five dudes you guys are talking and i have tunnel vision and all i'm thinking is like i gotta get through this yeah
Marc:is that a way to approach food?
Marc:I got to get through this.
Marc:I've never heard you so silenced by food before.
Marc:Well, Chad was sitting there and his face got red and he started hiccuping and he started, he kept going back up to get water and he kept saying, I eat this all the time.
Marc:And I'm like, I can't fucking believe this.
Marc:There was no relief from it.
Marc:It was so hot.
Marc:It was unnatural.
Marc:I thought, and then he told me that they don't let white people order the extra hot.
Marc:He's tried to order extra hot and they said, you know, we don't sell that to white people because we're afraid for your we're concerned.
Marc:But do they do black people have special mouths and assholes?
Marc:I mean, I think that was I think that was being reverse racist.
Guest:So I'm thinking I can handle that.
Guest:They have classic assholes.
Guest:i don't think that you're probably just not as accustomed to eating it as maybe who the fuck can eat that shit and i kept eating it and i ate the whole thing and my i was you the other night when i had you look like you were having a panic attack while you were eating it was like the most controlled panic attack i've ever seen i kept doing it and i was eating the pickles and trying to cool my mouth off with potato salad and coleslaw and then you want the bread to cool your mouth off but that's soaked and
Guest:And then someone's getting arrested outside while this is happening?
Marc:I didn't even notice that.
Marc:I couldn't even register.
Marc:There was guns.
Marc:There was gunplay outside.
Marc:There was someone being arrested.
Marc:There were cops.
Marc:I was like, I can't look.
Marc:I'm just trying to get through this thing that's happening.
Marc:This holocaust in my face.
Marc:And I could get no relief.
Marc:It looked like you were having a pain.
Marc:And then we got through it.
Marc:I ate two pieces of it the other night.
Marc:Two bites.
Marc:And I made the mistake of touching my balls.
Marc:And that was bad.
Marc:But see, I got through that.
Marc:I stopped touching them.
Marc:Well, I washed my hands, and I went back.
Guest:But what I'm saying— How many times did you wash your hands before you touched your balls?
Guest:I did three times, like scrubbed, before I felt like I was safe last night.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I washed them a few times.
Marc:I laid off because I got home, and this has never happened before because I like to think I'm a guy who can eat hot food.
Marc:I was laying in this bed at 2.30 at night, and my stomach went into such pain.
Marc:I was buckled over, and I'm like, I'm going to die for that chicken.
Marc:Was this worth it?
Marc:I mean, maybe I'm too old for this shit.
Marc:It's eating at my stomach lining.
Marc:Is this some sort of covert way of taking out, you know, cocky white people that go down?
Marc:Like I made it racial.
Marc:I'm like, I've been hit.
Marc:I've been hit.
Marc:i was thinking more like a jim morrison or like an elvis moment or like something like that no no first i've been fitting for you to have food take you out well right you buckled in pain there was i was like like it went away i drank a bunch of water because i thought like obviously the the horrendous horrible pepper stuff is sticking the lining in my stomach so i drank water and that worked and then like it went away for a while and then it came back like pain and i'm like i'm gonna have to go to the hospital
Marc:And I thought like, I better call down the desk.
Marc:I don't know what to do.
Marc:I don't know what to do.
Marc:That's why I wanted ice cream that you didn't get.
Marc:And I was that close to calling the hospital.
Marc:Then I realized they probably like down at the hospital, you imagine walking in and you're like, stomach problems.
Marc:And the dude's just like, did you go to Princeton?
Marc:You're like, ah, this happens all the time.
Marc:You sit down and the other three dorky white dudes are like, oh God, I think I saw you there.
Guest:Did you ever find out the secret extract that they put in is some kind of chemical or something?
Marc:They must just put oil of Karpaskian or whatever it's called, the stuff that's actually in peppers.
Marc:But today's been sort of exciting.
Marc:I don't know when it's going to hit, but it hit me at the pancake place.
Guest:It hit me at the pancake place.
Marc:Well, I know.
Guest:It hit me at the same time.
Guest:Because you tried to come in, and I was already in the stall.
Guest:Yeah, and I was like, what's happening?
Guest:You're like, what did you say?
Guest:I'm in trouble here.
Guest:I said, yeah, I'm in trouble here.
Guest:And you're like, oh, I'm in trouble too.
Guest:And I was like, well, it's going to be.
Guest:And then in mid-sentence, I was like, it's going to be.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:You're like, okay, buddy, I'll go to the hotel.
Marc:But we're okay right now.
Marc:And I'm glad we went through that together.
Marc:And look, folks, let's get to the show.
Marc:This could be a whole show, obviously, on its own.
Marc:We've got Charlie Day and Glenn Howerton from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I want to thank the guys at Esquire.com who helped set up the interview today.
Marc:You can read a condensed version of my interview with Charlie and Glenn and share it with your friends at Esquire.com slash WTF Sonny.
Marc:Let's go now to the garage where speaking of poo, you know, I had Glenn had an event.
Marc:The music on our show this week is by Battlefish, a new independent rock trio from Minneapolis.
Marc:Their debut album is out this fall, and you can stream or download their music for free by visiting battlefishmusic.com.
Marc:How are you sounding your head?
Guest:In my head, I sound much more masculine.
Marc:I always sound really smart in my head.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Well, let's welcome everyone here.
Marc:Glenn Howerton.
Marc:Hello.
Marc:Charlie Day.
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:In the garage here at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:I just think it's important to talk about how this experience started because...
Marc:You know, this is a pretty intimate situation, the way this conversation works.
Marc:But I had no idea that Glenn would walk in and have no choice but to tell me he had to shit.
Marc:And I thought that we broke a big, there was a big boundary there and it was out.
Guest:You know what, it's the kind of thing that 10 years ago,
Guest:I would have been absolutely mortified by.
Guest:And I would have tried to hide it, and I would have said, hey, man, can I use your bathroom?
Guest:And then just as quickly as I possibly could get the feces out and try and cover up the smell.
Guest:But I just don't care anymore.
Guest:It happens to everybody.
Guest:Well, not you're a successful guy.
Guest:You got a beautiful wife.
Guest:You don't care.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You shit wherever you want.
Guest:Look, it's not like that.
Guest:Hey, I'm a successful guy.
Guest:I'm going to shit right here.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what I was like.
Guest:Hey, Mark, how are you, man?
Guest:I'm a fan of your work.
Guest:Hey, can I shit giant amounts of feces in your toilet?
Guest:At what point did you realize you were going to have to?
Guest:Because you drove from Venice, and that's pretty far.
Guest:Yes, it was about halfway through the drive, and I was telling Mark I was running early.
Guest:So I was going to try and drive really slow, which I never do.
Guest:I always drive like a maniac.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Always running late.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then right at the last minute, I realized I was going to have to drive like a maniac anyway to shit all over somebody's house who I don't even know.
Marc:But that's a weird thing, though, because even if you are famous, I know I noticed you were a little uncomfortable and there's something about that.
Marc:I mean, it's like with the relationship.
Marc:Like now, you know, we have open conversations about shitting.
Marc:I will shit in the bathroom with her in the shower if necessary.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're both married.
Marc:Do you do that?
Guest:No, I don't do that.
Marc:Really?
Guest:No way.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Well, because we have multiple bathrooms in our giant mansions.
Guest:Oh, there you go.
Guest:I mean, we're- No, no, even, you know, even- Second bathroom.
Guest:We could be, we could, I could, you know, I could be in a, I don't know, like a trailer with a shower and I wouldn't want to take a dump in there because like, I wouldn't want her to.
Guest:I mean, that's sort of, we got a good deal there.
Guest:I don't want her taking a shit while I'm taking a shower.
Marc:Well, how often are you in trailers?
Marc:I guess on movies you're in trailers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you want shit in the trailer?
Marc:oh i'll shit in the trailer but alone oh right right right yeah it's like the guy who uh i mean it's been a long time since i've been on a bus but you're not supposed to ever use the you're not supposed to shit in the bus bathroom you know if you're cross country you mean a tour bus or like a tour bus or a greyhound it's the same type of bus but there's just a rule of apparently with musicians that you know whoever shits in there better have to because you're going to be hated for the rest of the trip it's a good rule
Marc:I think when you're talking about- That's a good rule.
Guest:Don't shit on the bus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know, but when you're talking about a cross-country greyhound trip or whatever, those people that are on that bus, they don't give a- They have no shame.
Guest:They're on a greyhound.
Marc:They're on a greyhound.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:You guys, when's the new season to start?
Marc:September 15th, right?
Marc:That is correct.
Marc:Now, is Rob busy losing the weight, or what's happening?
Marc:He is, yeah.
Guest:He's using... What is happening?
Guest:He's hitting the gym pretty hard, huh?
Yeah.
Guest:yeah but was that a group discussion i mean i know there's a lot of press around the fact that he put on what 40 pounds 50 50 for no real reason other than yeah yeah just the big comedy of it really i think he was getting a little i think he was getting a little self-conscious and of his character i think he was getting a little sick of what he found funny about his character and he was starting to wonder what was even funny about his character anymore and he thought well you know i've never seen on television a
Guest:A character, you know, gained 50, an actor also gained 50 pounds for the role.
Guest:I've seen it in films, but usually as.
Marc:For a role that, you know, like usually it's to, well, I mean, De Niro was playing Jake LaMotta.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, it was relative to the real person.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So he just thought, I'm going to do it in the name of funny.
Guest:Well, this was – it does make sense if you know the character.
Guest:It does make sense for his character to have – because his character is obsessed with mass.
Guest:And in his mind, he's this big, massive muscle monster.
Guest:But when in reality, he's just kind of obsessed with mass, but he doesn't have any.
Guest:So in his character's mind, he's building up a tremendous amount of mass in order to eventually sculpt it into muscle –
Guest:Who hasn't done that?
Guest:Yeah, but he did say, and he asked us, he's like, I've never seen that on television.
Guest:I've never seen characters intentionally.
Guest:First of all, on sitcoms, people always get better and better looking.
Guest:They have more money.
Guest:They get the veneers and the hair plugs.
Marc:They actually become younger in a freakish way.
Guest:Yeah, you never see them look like shit.
Guest:And he said, do you guys want to do it too?
Guest:And I was like, no, no.
Guest:I don't want to do it?
Guest:I don't think I can do it.
Guest:Did he have fun eating?
Guest:He did, yeah.
Guest:I think some of the things, he was trying to do it in a healthful way, which basically means taking healthy food and eating massive amounts of it, which is no fun for anybody.
Guest:Yeah, but he kind of threw that out and started just going right after the donuts.
Guest:Yeah, became very much, very donut and ice cream drinking heavy.
Guest:But you know what, to his credit, it's funny.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:He's so funny this season.
Guest:And to the point where I'm like, God, it's gonna suck for him to lose the weight.
Guest:It affected his acting.
Marc:How so?
Guest:hit he it was like i think i mean i don't want to get all john goodman fat sound to you his voice changed wow on occasional on certain lines he would have a little bit of that i think it's also just just the freedom of i think anytime a character i mean an actor like wears a mask yeah i mean literally wears a mask but has like funny puts on funny clothes yeah or does has to you can embody it
Guest:Yeah, I think it just really freed him up.
Guest:So all of a sudden, he's this fat, sloppy guy, and it affected his acting.
Guest:His acting is better this year.
Guest:And also, you look funnier.
Guest:And he looks funnier.
Guest:I look funnier.
Marc:Everybody, you can't avoid that.
Marc:When you're a fat guy, I mean, that's built-in funny.
Marc:Did he embrace it?
Marc:Was there shirtless scenes?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:About halfway through the season, we realized that he looked a lot funnier in Tommy Bahama shirts.
Guest:Because we had him wearing his usual t-shirts and they were tight and it looked funny.
Guest:And then he started wearing, for one episode, he wears a Tommy Bahama shirt.
Guest:And we realized when we shot that episode that he actually looked fatter in it.
Guest:Even though the tight t-shirts show off his belly more, he almost did kind of look muscular up top.
Guest:We've not seen the belly.
Guest:But something about Tommy Bahama shirts, even though you can't really see as well what's under it, it's very clear the message is, I'm fat and I'm trying to hide it.
Marc:So you guys flat out said, I'm not fucking doing it.
Marc:He wanted you all to put on 50 pounds?
Guest:I mean, he suggested.
Guest:I think it also was on top of just not wanting to do it because it's...
Guest:disgusting it's unhealthy it's so unhealthy uh you know that was starting to maybe feel a little too gimmicky you know to have like you're all fat yeah the whole cast is like one character i don't know it's we can start to ground the episode still in something
Guest:To be fair to him, he was coming from a place of these characters treat their bodies like crap, and they don't eat well, they drink constantly, and we're getting older.
Guest:So this is what would happen.
Guest:It is the natural progression of things.
Guest:So that was his vision for it.
Guest:And this is your sixth year doing this?
Marc:Seventh.
Marc:Seventh year?
Marc:So that's seven seasons?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:it's fucking amazing because like initially like i don't know where you guys came from you know i've been in stand-up comedy for 25 years and i you guys none of you guys were sketch guys right no no and you were just out here i mean how did you all come together glenn and i were theater geeks uh you know um out here no in new york and uh and rob started in new york too that's where i met rob and
Marc:He went to Fordham, right?
Marc:Or didn't he go to college?
Guest:For like a day or something.
Guest:Actually, that's really fun.
Guest:That's a good story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wish he was here to tell that story.
Guest:He went to Fordham, but he never paid for or signed up for classes.
Guest:He had friends that were going to Fordham, and he literally was sleeping on the floor in their dorm rooms and sneaking into classes because he wanted to learn stuff, but he could not afford to pay for the college.
Guest:So he went to Fordham, but he's like, there's no record of him ever having gone to Fordham.
Guest:I wonder if he learned anything.
Guest:So he just showed up in classes?
Guest:He probably learned not to go to college and to go make a success of himself.
Marc:Did you go to college?
Marc:I did.
Marc:And you studied theater?
Guest:No, I was an art history major.
Guest:They didn't have a theater program where I went.
Marc:So you're a liberal?
Marc:I mean, I did an art history minor.
Marc:So you're a liberal arts guy, and you?
Marc:Yeah, also a liberal.
Marc:Well, I did go for theater, though.
Marc:Where at?
Marc:I went to Juilliard.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Fancy.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:Merrimack College.
LAUGHTER
Marc:So you were gunning for the big... I was.
Guest:You were serious.
Guest:I took acting very seriously.
Marc:Alexander Technique?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do Meisner and all that shit?
Marc:They probably didn't have that at Juilliard.
Marc:It was probably fencing.
Marc:Did you do some fencing?
Marc:We did do a little fencing, actually, believe it or not.
Marc:How about at Merrimack?
Marc:You were in the art history department.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was so sad.
Guest:There was one little theater club of a group of kids who called themselves the onstagers, and
Guest:like that's great yeah and they would do uh on stages what even is that i mean they would do like um like you know into the woods musicals right so they were the non-theater like i was a bu i was in stage troupe so you would do the big uh once a year thing right on stages right it was usually musical like can't take it with you right exactly bye bye birdie it's just like yeah
Guest:But that's actually when I was like, oh, maybe acting is something that I can actually do.
Marc:So you were in the on-stagers.
Guest:I was, I sort of, I was, I was.
Guest:You dabbled.
Guest:I was, I was, I got a minute.
Guest:I was an on-stager.
Guest:You were an on-stager.
Guest:And then it was there that someone told me about this place called the Williamstown Theater Festival.
Guest:And I went for a summer, just basically kind of like, you know, you help build sets and you empty trash cans and then you maybe walk on stage and say two lines in a play with professionals
Marc:Is it a Shakespearean thing?
Marc:Because that sounds like a Shakespearean thing.
Marc:They do some Shakespeare, but it's- The whole unity thing.
Guest:It's all of it.
Marc:Now, okay, so in the on-stagers, did you do musicals?
Guest:I did- Guys and Dolls, come on.
Guest:I did Into the Woods.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I never did that.
Guest:I did South Pacific in high school.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But that was it.
Marc:But you don't strike me as the kind of guy that was part of that group.
Marc:Like, you know, I mean, there's a certain type of... And I'm not going to cast aspersions to high school thespians, but... Yeah, I was the outsider in that group.
Guest:You know, like, they were like, you know, he clearly seems like he's on drugs and, you know, he's hanging out with hippie friends, but...
Marc:His hippie friends.
Guest:Yeah, he's definitely like... I think he's a... He's a closet thespian.
Guest:A closet thespian.
Guest:And they were right.
Marc:They were right.
Marc:So you were like a hippie stoner guy?
Guest:In college.
Marc:Grateful Dead?
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Kept reinventing myself.
Guest:High school, I was like a baseball and a jock.
Guest:And then as soon as I realized that that career was never going to happen, I was like, well, I might as well just hang out with the- Cross over to the other side.
Guest:I actually went the exact same route.
Guest:You were a total jock, like sports guy, and was like weirdly actually enjoyed academics and stuff like that.
Guest:Then realized I was never quite good enough at sports to really thrive at that.
Guest:So then I took up drinking and smoking weed.
Guest:And then became a total deadhead.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Both of you.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:It's why I don't have any tattoos, because if I got one at 18, I would have gotten some dumb baseball.
Guest:And then at 20, I would have gotten a Grateful Dead thing.
Marc:The dancing bear.
Marc:You would have had a baseball on one arm and a dancing bear.
Guest:Yeah, and then 28, I would have been one of those douches with a barcode.
Guest:representing all your interests in music yeah right exactly all right so you were both deadhead hippies that's interesting yeah to me i went did you go to concerts uh i actually only ever made it to one but because he died in 95 so i mean i was older than you guys yeah i mean i was i made it to one the year he died like a couple months before he died yeah i was like just getting into it and then he died i was like
Marc:No more Jerry.
Marc:What's the point?
Marc:It probably saved you about three or four years of your life.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:The fact that Jerry Garcia died, as sad as it was, means that we have the show.
Marc:I was off Chili Dogs and heroin because of that.
Marc:I decided that wasn't the way I should go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So wait, tell me about this theater gig thing.
Marc:So you both were gunning for legitimate stage careers?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I certainly was.
Guest:That was what appealed to me.
Guest:Did you do any in New York?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But weirdly, I didn't get as much.
Guest:I mean, I thought it was going to come blasting out of school and become like the greatest thing that ever happened.
Guest:Who was your guy?
Marc:I mean, because Juilliard, who was that?
Marc:William Hurt went there.
Marc:Who went there?
Marc:A lot of people went there.
Marc:Oh, yeah, a lot of people.
Marc:But who was your guy?
Marc:Who was your model of, that's the career I want, that actor?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Come on, you had one.
Guest:You don't have to be ashamed of it.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I honestly don't know.
Guest:I mean, I always admired those guys, though, that would do both film and theater.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The guys who somehow made it.
Guest:Kevin Spacey.
Guest:Yeah, the Kevin Spacey's, right, right, who could somehow manage to do both.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I somehow, I have not managed to do both.
Marc:You haven't done any movies yet?
Guest:I haven't done any theater in 10 years.
Marc:You've done some movies, though, right?
Marc:I've done a couple movies.
Marc:You've done a couple movies?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I saw you on bus stops.
Guest:Who was I talking to?
Marc:Oh, I had Sudeikis in here, and he was telling me about- You did?
Marc:I had him in here last week.
Marc:He was on the show on Monday, and he was talking about the press junket.
Guest:He's funny as hell, man.
Marc:He's a good guy, too, you know?
Marc:Just fucking, yeah, it's funny.
Marc:So that must have been, like, hey, this is not that situation, because he said that you guys would go out, the three of you, and you'd have to do those radio junkets, where you'd just have to blast over and over again.
Guest:Brutal.
Marc:And they just, you know, in between, they say, all right, the people are Kathy, Johnny, and the gas bag.
Marc:All right, it's in Illinois.
Guest:Hey, you're out with the gas bag.
Guest:So, what's it like to have a horrible bus?
Guest:You ever had a horrible bus?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you get that question like a million times like, so you're with Jennifer Aniston.
Guest:How did you contain yourself?
Guest:I mean, did you go crazy?
Guest:No, I was fine.
Guest:I'm a grown man.
Guest:She's too old for me.
Guest:I mean, things you just can't say.
Marc:How much theater did you end up doing in New York?
Guest:none i mean you know like i did all of it at williamstown and i thought just like glenn i'm like oh i'm in the loop i'm in the you know i i went there for four years and kind of climbed the ranks you can sort of so you went from cleaning toilets to actually wearing costumes yeah to wearing costumes and then you know then i got an agent through that and i was like oh i'm i'm i'm set and uh and i remember i i was uh
Guest:I was, um, you know, up for the graduate that they were doing on Broadway, uh, for the Dustin Hoffman.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was really excited.
Guest:And my agent called and they're like, it looks like it's going to go to you.
Guest:And, and I was like, Oh, this is my big break.
Guest:I'm going to have a huge role on Broadway.
Guest:And then they said, Oh wait, don't call your parents or anything yet.
Guest:And because, um,
Guest:Jason Biggs is flying in to do just a quick chemistry thing.
Guest:I doubt it'll happen.
Guest:And they cast Jason Biggs.
Guest:And look, I have nothing against the guy.
Guest:If you want to cast him, fine.
Guest:But at that point, I realized I got to get to LA and stick my dick in a pie if I ever want to do a play.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And then...
Guest:I've been sticking my dick in pies ever since, and I have no interest in doing plays anymore.
Marc:But you love fucking pies.
Marc:Oh, but now I just can't stop fucking pies.
Marc:So when did you come out here?
Marc:What year?
Guest:How many years ago?
Guest:I came out here in 2001, I guess the end of 2001, because I did a pilot for Fox called That 80s Show.
Guest:And I had the same thing.
Guest:I was having trouble booking plays.
Guest:I was losing out roles to the Jason Bigzes of the world and kind of had the same experience and was getting basically more attention from shows out in L.A., even though I was in New York, than plays in New York.
Guest:So I finally broke down.
Guest:I was like, okay, let me go do this show, finally make some money and see what happens.
Guest:And that show didn't last very long.
Guest:But we the three of us moved out to L.A.
Guest:around the same time.
Guest:We knew each other from New York.
Guest:Not that well.
Guest:How did you know Rob?
Guest:I mean, what was he doing in New York?
Guest:Rob was Rob was doing a lot of writing and he'd actually done like two or three movies with pretty decent roles.
Guest:Unfortunately, he actually got cut out of them all.
Guest:And it's weird.
Guest:It sounds terrible.
Guest:He's a good actor.
Guest:And I think it was literally like he ended up always playing the character that when they had to trim the movie down to a certain length, his stuff was just easiest to go.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, maybe he was terrible.
Guest:When you're starting out and you're first getting your foot in the door, those are the opportunities you get.
Guest:And they're usually the expendable parts and they get cut down to service the star.
Guest:And that's just sort of part of the deal.
Guest:Well, you're saying that because you've got...
Guest:I got cut out of back company.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:With Chris Rock and Anthony Hopkins.
Guest:You did?
Guest:I said one line.
Marc:Well, that's the weird thing is when you're a comic actor, especially a stand-up comic, you're always a guy that's like, hey, the place is on fire.
Marc:Yeah, right, right.
Marc:And then that's it.
Marc:You're just that guy.
Marc:So you guys meet, but how did you all just, what was the inception of the show?
Guest:It was a couple of things.
Guest:We all moved out to LA around the same time.
Guest:We all knew each other from New York a little bit.
Guest:We knew we had the same manager.
Guest:Rob called... Rodenberg.
Guest:He's one of them, but Nick Frankel is our primary guy.
Guest:Yeah, three yards.
Guest:And we just started kind of hanging out.
Guest:Rob had been writing some movies and things like that, so we all started getting together and reading through some of these screenplays he'd written.
Guest:And then we discovered that Charlie...
Guest:In New York, it shot a lot of short films with his friends, Nate Mooney and Jimmy Simpson, who play the McPoyle twins.
Guest:And David Hornsby.
Guest:And David Hornsby, who plays Rickety Cricket on our show.
Guest:They all knew each other really well from Williamstown.
Marc:The twins, right.
Marc:I ran into him at Home Depot, the thinner one, the menacing one.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:Oh, Jimmy Simpson?
Marc:No.
Guest:yeah yeah he's a nice guy yeah he said he listened to the show but he's funny because he like you wouldn't think he's like that that type of comedy actor that plays it really weird and mean and straight yeah and he's good neither one of those guys or anything like those or anything like those characters thank god but uh they had shot some really really funny really strange short movies in new york together and rob and i i remember watching them and thinking god i wish i really want to do that it was just they were just doing it for fun yeah so what kind of stuff
Guest:uh i mean we shot a million i mean like uh you know we lived in this shitty little apartment uh down on like the lower east side of new york and what street orchard street okay which is a little house and it's nice below delancey oh way down yeah way down which is really nice now but uh wow didn't it when you go back there oh it's crazy you're like
Marc:What happened to all the weirdos selling drugs?
Guest:At the time, it was pretty empty, so we could really run around the streets and shoot things.
Guest:A lot of wigs and fake teeth.
Guest:Mostly, there were drug deals gone bad and just ridiculous.
Guest:You can go on Jimmy Simpson's YouTube page.
Guest:He's got a couple, yeah.
Guest:That are up on YouTube.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they were really funny, and I remember being very inspired by it and just thinking, I just want to shoot stuff.
Guest:So you saw a sensibility thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So basically Rob kind of came up with this idea of something for us to shoot together.
Guest:Well, first thing we did is we shot – this is kind of funny.
Guest:We don't usually tell this story, so this could be interesting.
Guest:But we shot this mockumentary kind of a thing about –
Guest:Because everybody used to joke that Rob looked like Haley Joel Osment.
Guest:I can see that.
Guest:So we shot this thing where he played Haley Joel Osment in his 20s, you know, years later.
Guest:And Charlie played Frankie Muniz years later.
Guest:And they were living in a shitty apartment together.
Guest:And, you know, they were both totally fucked up on drugs, trying to get their lives together.
Guest:And I played their acting teacher, this really eccentric acting teacher.
Guest:And we shot this little mockumentary thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, it was fun.
Guest:We had a good time.
Guest:It was fun, whatever.
Guest:And then the next thing was we shot this scene where a guy goes over to his somewhat acquaintance's house to borrow sugar for coffee.
Guest:And the guy ends up telling him that he has cancer.
Guest:And then now this guy feels stuck in this guy's apartment while he tells him that he has cancer.
Guest:And it was really uncomfortable.
Guest:And it was really, it was very inspired by sort of the humor of the office, the British office and Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Marc:Just sort of let the attention sit.
Guest:Yeah, just really, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we had so much fun doing it.
Guest:We ended up developing it kind of into this whole 25 minute long short film, which eventually became the the nugget of It's Always Sunny.
Guest:This is important to note, too.
Guest:And I think this is people could really take a lesson from this.
Guest:But the first version of it that we shot wasn't good.
Guest:The pilot?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we just started over.
Guest:It wasn't a pilot at this point.
Guest:He's talking about just the first home movie version of this thing.
Guest:Of Sonny.
Guest:Yeah, wasn't that a pilot?
Guest:Well, it was a pilot.
Guest:I just want to be clear.
Guest:We're not talking about the pilot that you see when you watch FX.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You were trying to create something that would represent the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was the plan to do something like that and then pitch it with that?
Marc:No.
Marc:Or did you already have a deal or what?
Guest:No, we were just shooting stuff for fun.
Guest:No, we were just trying to make something good.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:so we made it and we looked at it and we said, that's not good.
Guest:Let's redo it.
Guest:And that's something that I feel like people don't do enough.
Guest:You know, there's a little bit too much of like, Hey, we made something, come take a look at it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And like, you know, you really, if you have the time and, uh, the resources should sometimes go over these things again and make sure, make sure, you know, you know, um,
Guest:So how did you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, we just, we just knew, you know, it was all the characters that, you know, that, uh, that you see on the show now.
Guest:Actually, David Hornsby was playing Mac.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The guy who plays cricket was originally playing the Mac character.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:And, you know, it wasn't any one thing.
Guest:It was just our process.
Guest:We hadn't refined it yet.
Guest:And we said, all right, let's just take another crack at it, knowing a little bit more what we were trying to do, and made a much better version, which was the one that we eventually sold, and then even shot a second episode after that once we sort of had our sea legs.
Marc:So you self-produced it all and then sold it on that?
Guest:Is that how it went down?
Guest:I mean, literally, it was just two video cameras, a boom mic.
Marc:But you didn't pitch before?
Marc:You didn't go into FX and say, like, you know, we got an idea for a show you went with?
Guest:It would have never sold.
Marc:Did you sit there and look at the show with them?
Guest:We never thought that far ahead.
Guest:We literally just wanted to make some funny shit to make our friends laugh and just to see if we could do it.
Guest:And like Charlie said, we didn't stop until it was good and it was funny and we kept editing and we kept shooting and we kept working until it was good.
Guest:And then we took it into our managers and just showed it to them and they thought it was really funny and then we took it around to a bunch of different places.
Guest:How did you get DeVito involved?
Guest:that came a year later we did a whole season right but that was like it was but after that year wasn't that when you guys were up against the wall with the thing yeah yeah yeah um yeah i mean or so they say which is uh fx basically said look you know i mean our seven episodes that we aired at 11 p.m
Guest:you know didn't get amazing ratings uh and uh with nobody in it with nobody in the show that anyone recognizes yeah and uh with very little marketing um and they said but uh they what happened is they they'd put glenn close on an episode of uh or season of the shield right and it spiked their ratings and they were sort of looking to recreate that uh you know um ability to sell a name and
Marc:Just like the theater problem you guys ran into.
Marc:Pretty much.
Guest:Yeah, basically.
Guest:Basically, yeah, you need a little momentum to get your foot in the door.
Guest:And John Langrath used to run Jersey Films with DeVito.
Guest:John Langrath's president of FX.
Guest:And he had suggested that Danny might be interested in doing the show, and we agreed that maybe just Rob would go talk to him, the three of us.
Marc:Well, when they said that to you, were you like, fuck?
Marc:I mean, Danny DeVito, when you first heard that, was there that moment where you're like, how are we going to fit him in?
Guest:Oh, definitely, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was a little bit like, uh-oh, you know, that's such a different vibe from what we're doing, you know?
Guest:I mean, he's so famous, you know?
Marc:But, like, he's a pretty dark, weird, fucked-up little guy.
Guest:Absolutely, which worked out to our benefit.
Guest:But initially, it was just like, he's so famous, he's not going to seem...
Guest:Well, we were afraid.
Marc:Well, first of all, he'd overshadow you.
Guest:Yeah, that it would become, and not in a vain way, but just that it would change the show too much.
Guest:All of a sudden, we have this giant star on the show who could be a total douchebag and also want to make the show about him.
Guest:And we didn't want the show to be about any one person.
Guest:It was very much an ensemble show.
Guest:Yeah, like this is a low budget, you know, handheld thing that unless you're a huge fan of that 80s show or third watch, you're not going to recognize the cast.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, to put someone super famous in it, suddenly it says, hey, this is a TV show.
Guest:This isn't like a...
Marc:So you were worried about losing your indie cred.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then also just never having met the man, you know, you don't know.
Guest:If he's an asshole.
Guest:Yeah, he's going to be an asshole.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the other side of it was like, look, people have made Danny DeVito super funny in the past.
Guest:And if we're any good, we should be able to figure out how to do it as well.
Guest:And certainly from a performance standpoint, he was perfect for the show.
Guest:Because like you said, he's twisted.
Guest:He's done a lot of dark shit.
Guest:Our show was pretty dark.
Guest:And he seemed to have the right sensibility for our show.
Marc:So in the conversation with you guys and Rob, when they're like, they want Danny DeVito.
Marc:They're going to reach out to Danny DeVito.
Marc:Like, how long did you guys go like, oh, man.
Guest:Well, we were sort of on the hook for it, which was like, well, we need this to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So who went and met him?
Guest:Rob went and met him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Rob went and met him.
Guest:So you sent a messenger out.
Guest:Well, first thing we did is we created a character for him, something that we could actually pitch him, something concrete.
Marc:and he had already seen the show his kids were thankfully like big fans of the show that happens so much now man yeah it's the weirdest thing like you know i know guys who are a little younger than me and like even your age where it's like uh the director's like yeah my kid liked you dimitri martin got a role like that david cross yeah uh dustin hoffman's kid was a david cross fan and he got something it's just bizarre that there's this whole generation of people that are listening to their kids
Marc:It's true.
Guest:It makes sense.
Marc:And also they want to be vital.
Marc:They're like, I want my kid to like me.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Once your kids get to like 18, 19, 20, they're probably way more in touch with what's going on than you are.
Guest:Or maybe a little bit older.
Marc:So he goes out there, he pitches the part, and he comes back with what word?
Guest:You know, the good thing about Rob is that he could sell you your own pants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he's like... While you're wearing them.
Guest:He's just... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's just... He's good.
Guest:He's a good salesman.
Guest:He's a good salesman.
Guest:And, you know, the two of us really needed a guy like that, which was great.
Marc:Two ex-Deadhead theater geeks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You need that front man.
Guest:We needed an obsessed salesman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he talked us into doing the show, too.
Guest:So, I mean... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We were both kind of on the fence about it.
Marc:So, what did he say when he comes back from meeting DeVito?
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:Do you remember?
Guest:Was he excited?
Guest:Was he in right away?
Guest:You know, he went and met with DeVito and believe it or not, DeVito, who hadn't done a television show since Taxi, called him an hour later and said, I'm in.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was that quick.
Guest:So I think by the time we actually talked to Rob, Danny had already said yes.
Guest:It was like, I'm in.
Guest:We couldn't believe it.
Guest:But these are the terms.
Guest:You have 15 days to shoot all my scenes for an entire season of television.
Guest:And, uh, you know, they paid him a lot.
Guest:So, you know, he said yes, but, but in a very smart business way, like, uh,
Marc:I'm still Danny DeVito.
Guest:I'm still Danny DeVito.
Guest:But after that season, which was season two, then he sort of fell in love with the character and the show and us.
Marc:Well, let's talk about that romance for a while.
Marc:When he first shows up on the set and you guys, were you nervous?
Marc:I mean, was there some element of like, it's fucking Danny DeVito?
Marc:Did he surprise you?
Marc:I mean, were you laughing at him?
Guest:Well, he, we were very, we were very, I mean, I was, I know I'm going to speak for myself.
Guest:I was also at the time still just becoming comfortable with being anybody's boss, you know, and basically on that set, the three of us are the producer, the boss.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were all like, you know, in our late twenties and, uh, and we, it was like, this, this is weird to be like, you know, telling this guy who's 50 years old and this guy is 40 years old and this woman who's 60, uh,
Guest:Like, I'm their boss.
Guest:It was just strange.
Guest:So then to be all of a sudden, like, weirdly kind of Danny DeVito's boss, a guy who we grew up admiring and watching.
Guest:You know, I was like, I'm going to have to give him notes when he's acting.
Guest:I'm going to have to, you know, give him direction.
Guest:And so I was a little... How do you balance that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a little weird, but he did a really good job of essentially saying to us, sending the message to us very clearly, this show, I don't want this show to be about me.
Guest:I don't want to fuck up what you guys already have.
Guest:I want you guys to help me seamlessly integrate myself into this gang.
Guest:And I want you to feel comfortable giving me directions.
Guest:So he's a pro.
Guest:He's a pro, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's such a team player.
Guest:I don't think we could have got a better guy when it comes to that.
Guest:I mean, he's really up for whatever and commits to it like 100%.
Guest:I think you get to a certain age and just knowing your lines gets a little trickier.
Guest:And the way that we work too is we jump from, we'll shoot, we'll go into a location like say my apartment in the show and we'll shoot three or four scenes from a bunch of different episodes.
Guest:So we're jumping all over the place and that's tough on the people who don't write the show.
Marc:um you know for for danny and caitlin but uh because by the time we do it we're we know those episodes so well so you guys all three right in the same room together yeah yeah and you and and in terms of so you just brainstorm and you try to make each other laugh or how does that go
Guest:Well, we have a team of writers now.
Marc:Oh, you do?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who are they?
Marc:Anyone I know?
Guest:Comics?
Guest:No.
Guest:You know, we're really weird.
Guest:The first two seasons, it was just the three of us, and then we farmed a script out to David Hornsby.
Guest:But after that, we got a bunch of young... We couldn't really afford senior writers, and we didn't want a bunch of guys who'd been in a million rooms forming bad habits over the years.
Marc:So they're all in their early 20s?
Guest:Yeah, like young guys.
Guest:Well, not anymore, but when we...
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Got them.
Marc:How many are on the staff?
Marc:Maybe 10 or 11 people total, including us.
Guest:Including us.
Marc:It's pretty small.
Marc:That is small?
Marc:Yeah, I think.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Is that small?
Guest:I think that's normal.
Guest:I think that's pretty small.
Marc:So do you guys sit down with the three and you put the... Do you do story ideas and then throw it to the room or do you have guys...
Guest:Nowadays, we'll go in in the beginning of the season and we'll just pitch out general story ideas.
Marc:That'll thread through the season maybe?
Marc:Do you think about arcs or you don't think about it?
Guest:We do some.
Guest:We did some last year.
Guest:The way we shoot, arcs are really tricky.
Marc:In what way?
Guest:Because we block shoot everything in a way that...
Guest:You don't get to clean up an episode and go to the next one.
Guest:It's also something we set out to do from the beginning, which was to create more sort of individual episodes that you could watch.
Guest:You could never have seen the show and watch an episode from season five and be on board.
Marc:Yeah, I noticed that.
Marc:Like when you watch it, they all sort of stand alone.
Marc:And what are the rules of how you approach comedy for the show?
Marc:I mean, are there things that you will not do on policy or as a policy evolved around emotion or what a character will or won't do and that kind of stuff?
Guest:You know, it's funny, and I think what sets us aside a little bit is that I don't think there's anyone involved in the show who ever thought of themselves as a comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:I think we all thought of ourselves as people who could be funny.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, I mean, the idea of doing stand-up is terrifying to me.
Guest:Right, me too.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Never do it.
Guest:I can never do it.
Guest:I don't think I could ever do it.
Guest:And, you know, so our approach to comedy, I think...
Guest:First and foremost, we're just trying to make an episode that works.
Guest:And then hopefully in that, it's also funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We try to create something where the character's point of views are extreme enough that that's where the comedy comes from.
Guest:I don't know how to write.
Guest:I'm really bad at writing jokes.
Guest:I don't know how to write jokes.
Guest:I really don't know how to write.
Guest:I could never do it.
Marc:And your writers don't do it either, necessarily.
Marc:It's all character-driven.
Marc:The sort of personalities and these weird idiosyncrasies that each one has, you can just move them around.
Marc:You just create situations.
Guest:Yeah, and I think we almost approach it also from the standpoint of like...
Guest:Really creating almost bizarre needs, but very concrete concrete needs and wants for the characters over the course of an episode so So that the comedy really comes from just the lengths that the characters will go to to achieve what they selfishly want in any given moment like what are some great examples that other than the There was one where you you guys got addicted to what was it?
Guest:Okay, well there's there's a perfect example right there, you know we
Guest:We discovered that because we decided to quit our job at the bar because this was in season two.
Guest:So this was when we were integrating Danny into the show.
Guest:We were so pissed off that our father, who was played by Danny, was going to be a part of our lives again, who we hated, that we decided to leave the bar.
Guest:And then we realized like, well, we got to find other jobs.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:We'll quit the bar and we'll finally achieve our hopes and dreams.
Guest:But in the meantime, we might need to get on some unemployment.
Guest:you know to fill the gap until we can you know i can become a veterinarian and you can become a famous actress you know so initially our goal is to set out on these wild hopes and dreams but we end up on unemployment and then we realize we can get even better benefits if we're on welfare but then we realize we can't get on welfare unless we've got some kind of a problem so we decide to get addicted do we decide to smoke crack to get it in our system to prove that we're recovering crackheads so then we can get welfare and then we can achieve our hopes and dreams and then of
Guest:we've just become crack addicts right you know one of my favorite scenes from last season is just such a simple premise is we had an episode with jason sedekis where he plays this character of schmitty and schmitty is like the fifth beetle you realize that there was a there was an extra guy to this group that you've been following for six years and uh you know he hasn't been around for six or seven or eight years you know and uh he comes back and they bring him into the fold and there's one scene where they all go out to they take him out to lunch and
Guest:And this group of friends, their behavior has become so insular that to Schmitty, from outside of it, he can't even relate.
Guest:Dennis Glenn's character, he
Guest:He orders everyone's food for them when they go out to eat because he has the most refined palate.
Guest:And people have just sort of gotten used to that.
Guest:And Schmitty wants to order for himself, which throws the gang out of whack.
Guest:And really, from a premise standpoint, it's very simple.
Guest:It's like a guy just leaves for a while, and when he comes back, things have changed.
Guest:But then you get into the behavior, and that's where it gets really funny.
Marc:Now, in terms of feedback, do you guys – have you offended anybody?
Marc:Do you get like –
Guest:Why have we not offended something?
Guest:I'll tell you why.
Guest:I'll tell you why.
Guest:I think the reason we haven't is because clearly, and this is something we set out to do from the beginning too, the characters, our characters are always the butt of the joke.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And their ignorance and their ability to be so selfish and so self-serving is always the reason why their hopes and dreams never come to fruition.
Guest:Because the characters are always the butt of the joke.
Guest:So...
Guest:You know, whenever, you know, a character does something that's extremely racist or sexist or horrible towards any group of people or an individual, it never works out for them.
Guest:And it is always the reason why they don't achieve what they want to achieve.
Guest:So I.
Guest:I think that is the reason, you know, and even with this year's premise of Mac gaining weight, we are not making fun of fat people.
Guest:We are making fun of Mac because he thinks that he's this muscle-bound person and he has done absolutely nothing in order to actually achieve that goal.
Guest:He's literally eating himself.
Guest:This is not a person who is naturally fat.
Guest:This is a person who is destroying his body.
Marc:under the under the delusion that he's actually creating muscle you know and that's that's the joke not fat people in general now it was there always in this uh when you were creating it like because there's two kinds of comedies there there are comedies that you know people can identify with which are more a little more hackneyed usually family comedies and that kind of stuff were you sort of when you guys created this where you're like you know we're not doing that
Marc:Oh, definitely.
Marc:I mean, there's like these characters are going to be characters.
Marc:This is comedy for comedy's sake.
Marc:You know, if anyone says like, oh, my God, I'm exactly like Charlie.
Marc:That might be a problem.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Well, I think, you know, because we were all out here and acting and auditioning for pilots and stuff.
Guest:One of the reasons we put it together was to have material that wasn't like that.
Guest:It's not inspiring to me, those kind of TV shows.
Marc:How did you feel when you auditioned?
Marc:As a comic, but I'm sure it's the same with you just as an actor, that you realize after a certain point that classic sitcoms are just joke delivery systems.
Marc:And then you've got to go in there, and it's a specific type of acting.
Marc:It's got nothing to do really with acting as much as it does having to deliver a joke with a set personality.
Marc:Did you used to say, like, this is fucking hilarious?
Guest:horrendous well charlie you you never say the words you always just go in and i love i love your because you're you you were always saying like i think i'm a better writer than everybody and i change everyone's words that's what he does you know and for years for years you know he would come back he'd be like yeah i had this audition you know we would audition for the same thing try to be like yeah you know he would go in with like he would just change the character he would change all the words for not everything not everything i mean if it was good then it's good and if it was absolute shit
Guest:Yeah, it wasn't arbitrary.
Guest:You weren't making arbitrary changes.
Guest:You were trying to make it better.
Guest:You're trying to elevate the material.
Guest:Wait, this is for TV auditions?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Everything.
Guest:TV, film.
Guest:Movies.
Guest:And of course- Not plays.
Guest:Yeah, plays.
Guest:Sacrilege.
Guest:I don't think Odette's really had a feel for it.
Guest:Let me talk to you about this Tartuffe character, all right?
Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I think some people are maybe open to having their material elevated and other people are like, that's not what I wrote.
Guest:What the fuck are you doing?
Marc:What was your experience most of the time when you would do that?
Guest:You know, I'd usually get into the testing process and get brought along the line.
Guest:And then I think I tested 15 times without booking a pilot.
Marc:For like which ones?
Marc:Like which ones have made the air where you were like up for them?
Guest:Very few.
Guest:That 80s show, I was... Yes.
Guest:Who's your Asian friend who got the part?
Marc:Yeah, he and... You guys, did you live together or anything?
Guest:No.
Marc:Or you just knew each other?
Guest:No, we just knew each other.
Marc:And you always had the same management, so you were going out for the same parts?
Marc:Yeah, pretty much.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there was never any rivalry?
Guest:Not really, because it was usually more you'd go out for the clear lead kind of guy, and I'd always be the wacky friend.
Guest:It wasn't really the same parts that much.
Marc:There was never a situation where you'd walk in with a new script and say...
Guest:there was i mean i remember being in audition rooms with uh with rob you know actually that's how we met we were both flown out to test for the the same role for this this pilot called mather house you and rob yeah yeah that's how you met him yeah that's how i met him and um and you know the pilot fell apart and they'd uh they didn't make it when we were out and he was so bummed out and it was the second time in a row that happened to me and i was like no man that's don't it's fine that's how it works yeah
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I actually the first time I ever really had a conversation with Charlie was after we both tested for different roles for that 80s show.
Guest:And he was you were I was good.
Guest:I was like, hey, man, we were both leaving at the same time.
Guest:I say, hey, you want to ride?
Guest:I can take you back to your hotel.
Guest:I guess he was going to catch a cab or something.
Guest:I had a rental car.
Guest:And so I was driving.
Guest:We had the same agent.
Guest:My agent called me while I was in the car with Charlie to tell me I got the part.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I was like, I'm in the car with Charlie.
Guest:And she was like, oh, he did not get the part.
Guest:Let me talk to him.
Guest:Let me talk to him.
Guest:in the fucking car that was I forgot about that by the time that was like you know screen test 27 for me I didn't give a shit I was like sorry dude they're gonna cast that Asian guy so that's amazing though it's weird that you got to a point where you didn't take it personally
Guest:Oh, definitely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think Charlie... I mean, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but... He's right here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Please, speak for me.
Guest:Sometimes that's kind of fun to hear your friend's perspective on your attitude, right?
Guest:Will you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think on some level...
Guest:I always admired that Charlie had the confidence to go in and say, okay, this isn't that funny, but here's how I'm going to make it funnier.
Guest:And if you don't like it, then I guess it's just not for me because I'm not going to do this.
Guest:I'm going to do this.
Guest:If you don't like this, then I'm not your guy.
Guest:And I still, to this day, I find that to be a very admirable trait and very bold.
Guest:And it did not work out for him for a long time.
Guest:It didn't.
Guest:But now, you know...
Guest:I'm glad you admired it.
Guest:Writers tend to take that very personally.
Guest:But I will say to this day that not a single one of those projects really panned out or has gone half as long as It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Marc:Aren't you guys coming up on some sort of milestone for the longest running live comedy TV show on cable?
Marc:I think that's it.
Guest:Live action.
Guest:Longest running live action sitcom on cable.
Guest:What does live action mean in that context?
Guest:Non-cartoon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Oh, sorry.
Guest:Not on cable.
Guest:I think on non-pay cable.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Because I think on basic cable.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Someone really had to bend the spin out of it.
Guest:Yeah, wow.
Marc:We've got a publicist in the room.
Marc:A publicist is in the room.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did that... He doesn't know anything.
Marc:Who crunched those numbers?
Marc:He's just a lackey.
Marc:You've got the longest...
Marc:yeah i know it gets worse thing with people that say things on yeah right yeah it's not a thing with distinctions in hollywood yeah so all right so now you guys are both uh the show's doing well people love it you got a big you know fan base the numbers are good
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:You stop paying attention.
Guest:Once you get into the sort of syndication game, you're like, the numbers?
Guest:Oh, yeah, the numbers.
Guest:That doesn't matter anymore.
Marc:And it's all yours.
Marc:That must feel fucking amazing.
Guest:Yeah, it feels good.
Marc:Yeah, it's great, man.
Marc:Are you guys selling DVDs, O2?
Marc:Oh, yeah, my girlfriend's got the box.
Marc:She brought them over from her house.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, because I told her, you know, I've watched the show, but she's like, are you sure?
Marc:Because I love the show, and she brings a bag of DVDs over last night, and I'm like, oh, my God, am I going to?
Marc:And you just come over and watch shit.
Guest:And I come and I kick her out of the shower so I can take a giant dump.
Guest:It's like, hey, nice to meet you.
Guest:Oh, I'm a big fan of your show.
Guest:Okay, good, because I'm going to shit all over your bathroom.
Guest:Mark would have just dumped with her in there.
Marc:That's what you should have done.
Marc:Yeah, I should have.
Marc:She would have been okay with it.
Marc:She completely would have been okay with it.
Guest:If you're truly a confident actor, you'll start doing that.
Marc:Quite honestly, I don't know if I could have handled it, but I think she would have been fine with it.
Marc:Oh, God.
Guest:You would have been haunted by it for years.
Marc:It would be a good story.
Marc:I can't believe I let Glenn dump in the bathroom with Jessica in there.
Marc:With her in the shower.
Guest:He dumped so much bigger than me.
Marc:How was it, baby?
Guest:It's a huge dump.
Marc:So you guys are both married, and Rob's married to Caitlin, right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Who's on the show.
Marc:Does that get weird?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:No, it hasn't.
Guest:Look, we're weirdly, I think, I mean, really well-adjusted people in real life.
Guest:I mean, I think.
Guest:You seem pretty well.
Marc:You know, both very pleasant.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Marc:Seem like good guys.
Marc:I didn't know if you were going to be dicks or not.
Marc:No, no.
Guest:I would assume that people would assume that we were dicks all the time.
Guest:Oh, because of the characters, right?
Guest:Yeah, because the characters are dicks.
Guest:But I think that's our way of expressing the sides of our... This is why, though, I also think that our characters are relatable to people and people will actually come up to me and say, I'm just like Dennis.
Guest:And I'm like, well, Jesus Christ.
Guest:But I know what they mean.
Guest:What they mean is because Dennis is basically the worst impulses that I actually have.
Guest:and the worst sides of myself that i just i have a checkpoint charlie in my head that that tells me don't act on that impulse don't say that to this to that person but dennis is that guy without that checkpoint charlie who just is all the absolute worst parts of myself and i think that people have those impulses as well and they don't maybe they follow up through on them to some degree they're afraid to they're afraid to but they but they reckon they're like
Guest:Yes, that is what I would want to do in an alternate universe.
Guest:If I were able to do that, I would do that.
Guest:That's my impulse.
Guest:And I think people can relate to those impulses.
Marc:Yeah, hell yeah.
Marc:And now you, do you find that because, I know you've done a couple movies, do you feel like there's a typecasting thing going on?
Marc:I mean, I don't mean that in a negative way.
Marc:It's just like, it's going to be, if you guys create these defined comedic characters, you're, is there a point where you're going to be like, well, I want to do this type role.
Marc:Uh, I mean, my gun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I, I, you know, I think getting typecast is a good problem because it usually means you're working a lot, but, um, I haven't really experienced that yet.
Guest:I mean, I've,
Guest:You haven't done enough of it yet.
Guest:No.
Guest:But this next thing you're going to do is what?
Guest:Completely different, yeah.
Guest:I'm going to do some big Guillermo del Toro monster movie thing and play an intelligent scientist.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you change the script on that when he went in?
Guest:You know, he told me to.
Guest:He did?
Guest:And I'm freaked out about it.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Well, I kind of know how to do that with comedy.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Where with comedy, I'm like, all right, I can go in and...
Guest:You know, I can say something in a different way that I know is going to be a little bit funnier.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when the object isn't to be funny, you know, when I'm describing, you know, a monster's intestines or something.
Marc:You're at an autopsy table.
Marc:There's intestines there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you got to play it straight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, it's...
Guest:Guillermo apparently is like a giant Sony fan.
Guest:Yeah, he's seen every episode.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I met him, he kept asking me to quiz him.
Guest:I'm like, I believe you.
Guest:Quiz me, bitch.
Guest:Quiz me.
Guest:Quiz me, fucker.
Guest:Somebody sound like, huh?
Guest:Hey, fucker.
Guest:Hey, fucker.
Guest:You watch the Dodgers?
Guest:Is that how he talks?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's exactly.
Guest:He's from a different part of Mexico.
Marc:Yeah, South Central LA.
Guest:So, yeah, I don't know about the typecasting thing.
Guest:I'm very fortunate that he saw the movie.
Marc:But it is playing against type for you, and it feels good?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's almost a little daunting now because it's been about seven years of doing a similar thing.
Guest:But, you know, actually throughout the – this is going to sound shocking considering the character, but like throughout the course of the –
Guest:the show like from an acting perspective i keep trying to get closer to closer to what's actually inside of me yeah uh which is really weird for that character but uh because you know all my favorite actors seem to do that like even sean penn or someone yeah who might do a very different character thing from movie to movie he's still just that sean penn that you know and you enjoy watching
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Yeah, there's something there at the core.
Guest:Yeah, so trying to find whatever that core thing is that people are responding to and bring it to whatever you do is a challenge.
Marc:You think that's a conscious thing?
Marc:Because I think you have it.
Marc:I mean, right now, I'm talking to you as Charlie, and there's a similarity.
Marc:Right, yeah, right.
Marc:I mean, you're that guy that's on TV.
Marc:Same with you.
Marc:But that's a good thing.
Marc:I was just wondering if there's really a conscious way without driving yourself crazy, like, am I being Charlie enough?
Marc:Is Charlie coming through?
Marc:Because I want Charlie to come.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's a challenge.
Guest:But I think you take parts of yourself that can relate to the experiences that the character has had and you just kind of...
Guest:go with those.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I think you're very fortunate in that you had this great outlet to create this stuff for yourself.
Marc:Because like you said, that character is based on your own impulse.
Marc:Did you ever see Tropic Thunder?
Marc:Did you see Tropic Thunder?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That last scene where they're in the camp and they're all battling with their identities as actors and as people.
Marc:When they go to rescue Ben Stiller and he doesn't want to leave from his captivity because he's found his place and the kid made him the wooden Oscar.
Marc:And then Robert Downey Jr.
Marc:starts going through all his different characters to get to the core of their self.
Marc:It's fucking so heady, but as an actor, you can't really do that.
Marc:You're just going to be you.
Guest:Yeah, eventually, yeah.
Guest:You have to let it go and start saying the lines.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think it's all the lead up to before you do a part that you start thinking about, oh, how am I going to do it and how am I going to pull it off?
Guest:But then once you're doing it, it's...
Marc:So are there people you want to work with, or are you thrilled to have worked with certain people?
Marc:I mean, Denny DeVito, after a certain point, must have been pretty amazing.
Marc:I know you guys are the producers of the show and everything, but I mean, he's a funny guy.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:I could not be more proud of his performance on the show, especially the last couple seasons, as he's really sort of found the character, and we've found the best way to write for him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:i think he's doing some of the i mean i hate to say this but personally i think he's doing some of the best work of his career yeah he's just doing such great work on the show he's hysterical um i mean he's been brilliant in other things it's sort of great that you guys are actually actors and you have a respect for it that you can appreciate it on that level yeah
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I mean, I think it's why we always, you know, every couple episodes, you know, we'll have a scene that's, you know, something out of like The Deer Hunter or Cuckoo's Nest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we just love those movies so much and want to relive them.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:He was in Cuckoo's Nest.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I know it.
Marc:Martini.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:He's brilliant in that.
Marc:Yeah, he is brilliant in that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you want to work with Sean Penn?
Marc:Is that the?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Definitely.
Marc:He's just great.
Marc:I mean.
Marc:Have you met him?
Marc:I've never met Sean.
Guest:No, I've never met him.
Marc:How are you going to do that?
Guest:I had the opportunity.
Guest:I was in the same building with him.
Guest:I didn't say hi.
Guest:I heard a rumor that he was a fan of the show, though.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You never know when you hear those rumors, though, because someone will tell you that, and you'll go up to someone, and they don't know who the fuck you are.
Marc:That happened with us in the living room over my podcast.
Marc:But you're honest.
That was good.
Marc:so you're wishing the show and then he took a shit in your house no he was very forthright and transparent and honest in both the endeavors i need to shit and it has to happen soon and then uh i've never listened to a whole episode really you've done that many but so i mean i appreciate it yeah get it all out there and just you know what i mean get it all out
Marc:Get it all out.
Guest:Get it all out.
Marc:Right off the bat.
Marc:Well, you've been talked about in this show by many people who are fans of your show.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's cool.
Guest:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Let me say this, though.
Guest:Let me say this.
Guest:When I saw you on Real Time with Bill Maher a month ago, whatever it was, the season finale.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And then it was like, hey, do you want to do Marc Maron's show?
Guest:Because of that appearance, I immediately was like, yes, I want to do it.
Guest:Even though I had not listened to the podcast or heard the show, I enjoyed your performance, your appearance.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:So much that I said, I want to talk to that guy.
Marc:Were you anticipating politics?
Marc:Because we can talk a little bit about politics if you want to alienate that.
Guest:It's not that I was anticipating it, but I liked the way, you know, it's not so much your views on politics as the way you spoke about it.
Marc:Well, it's interesting, because what you guys do, like, in the face of, you know, the history of television and expectations around comedy, you guys have seemed to have done a sort of miraculous thing, you know, as has, you know, Louis and maybe a couple other people since Arrested Development, you know, that...
Marc:You know, that you've been able to turn the thing on itself and build an audience that wasn't there before and say, fuck you, to, you know, executive and network expectations.
Marc:So on that level, that's a good thing.
Marc:You know, that keeps things moving forward.
Marc:Do you feel that you've done those things?
Marc:Or did I just, like, over-intellectualize everything?
Guest:Well, you know, you might be giving us a little more credit than we deserve, but, you know, so much of it's a little bit of right time, right place, and right opportunity, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:getting the opportunity to make the show a network that lets us make it the way we wanna make it, which Louis is experiencing now.
Guest:And I think nowadays there's an audience, maybe there always was, but if you make something unique
Guest:There's probably an audience for it out there.
Marc:You just got to figure out how to get them there.
Guest:And if someone gives you a chance to keep whatever it is on the radio or on television or in the theaters, wherever it is, someone gives you a chance to keep putting it out there, you'll probably find your audience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, congratulations on the success, fellas.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:Thanks for coming out.
Thank you.
Marc:So that's our show.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:That was fun, man.
Marc:It's always fun when you interview a couple of dudes who know each other.
Marc:You get a thing going.
Marc:Very charming.
Marc:But anyways, I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I'm still in Nashville because that's where I was at the beginning of the show.
Marc:So it would be weird if at the end of the show I was back.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:I think we're going to be okay here.
Marc:I'm going to have to go to the bathroom in a second.
Marc:But if you need any WTF related things, go to WTFpod.com.
Marc:Get yourself an app for the iPhone, iPad, Droid, iPod Touch.
Marc:Do that.
Marc:Get on my mailing list.
Marc:There's new merch, new posters, new mugs.
Marc:Man, I don't know what else to tell you.
Marc:I don't know what else to tell you.
Marc:I will be in Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky, September 15th through the 18th.
Marc:Louisville, Kentucky at the Improv.
Marc:What else can I tell you, man?
Marc:I love Nashville.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:Thank you, Charlie.
Marc:Thank you, Glenn.
Marc:Thank you, Ryan.
Marc:I'm sorry that James and John didn't get to talk, but they enjoyed it.
Marc:Did you guys enjoy it?
Marc:Yeah, I feel like you're part of it a little bit.
Guest:I feel terrible.
Marc:And you didn't even need any.
Marc:Yeah, see, that's the power of sharing, isn't it?
Marc:You all right, buddy?
Guest:I'm good.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Are we going to go to Grimey's Records?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Grimey's?
Marc:All right, we're going to Grimey's.
Marc:Talk to you later.