Episode 207 - Sandra Bernhard
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck guys?
Marc:What the fucker Ricans?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:I said that twice.
Marc:Now I, oh man, how could I be repeating myself when there are so many?
Marc:Good afternoon.
Marc:Good morning.
Marc:Good evening.
Marc:Good middle of the night.
Marc:Whenever you're listening, this is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I hope everybody's okay.
Marc:I'm recovering from a mild, what would you call it, spiderweb incident.
Marc:Walking out to the garage, walked right into a spiderweb of some kind that I didn't see.
Marc:I had my shirt off, which amplifies the spiderweb experience, and I just felt it hit my skin, and I went into that involuntary sort of spastic, panicky dance of fear.
Marc:You know, accompanied by kind of unintentional grunts and sort of screams.
Marc:You're like, oh, ah, oh, God.
Marc:And then it reverberates.
Marc:Like, I know it's over.
Marc:I didn't see a spider.
Marc:But right now, I'm like, oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah, they keep coming.
Marc:The spider web dance of fear.
Marc:Very humbling moment.
Marc:Exciting way to start the day.
Marc:I hope you guys are okay.
Marc:Let's do some plugging.
Marc:But before I do that, let me say that Sandra Bernhardt is in the garage today.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:I always assume she's angry.
Marc:We'll find out.
Marc:I want to believe that she's an angry person.
Marc:And I want to feel that.
Marc:But we'll find out.
Marc:We'll find out.
Marc:So let's do this.
Marc:How about you?
Marc:Maybe you need a little...
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Man, did I just shit my pants.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, available at WTFPod.com or JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Let's get into this.
Marc:For me, Nashville.
Marc:I will be in Nashville this week, September 8th through 10th at Zaney's.
Marc:And then a couple weeks after that, I'll be at the Improv in Louisville.
Marc:Louisville.
Marc:Kentucky, 22nd through 25th, or Louisville pronounced properly, but Louisville pronounced if you're a local.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:I feel like I still have spider webs on me.
Marc:Horrendous.
Marc:There's been some big fucking spiders around, man.
Marc:I can't... I can't... I don't...
Marc:I'm not afraid of them in a, like I can stand close to a spider.
Marc:I can look right at a spider and be fascinated.
Marc:There's some big spiders around here, but there's still part of me.
Marc:I'm terrified of them.
Marc:Not in an honest way.
Marc:I don't think they're going to bite me.
Marc:They're just something fucked up and scary about spiders.
Marc:man the bugs are taking over they're fucking there's nothing we can do about it the war is not between good and evil it's between us and bugs it's between everything else and bugs ranging from single-celled organisms to uh just renegade strands of dna the viral variety all the way up through the largest bugs that you can find you know i can't oh god
Marc:Let's shift gears.
Marc:Let's just shift gears.
Marc:This is getting ridiculous.
Marc:Hey, those of you who condescend the Jew with tools, I am a Jew with tools.
Marc:I did some tool work.
Marc:I did some man's work.
Marc:I'm out in the garage, so this area, the garage, is not meant for that type of work.
Marc:I've got my printer on the old...
Marc:tool bench that I left in this garage when I bought the house like it looks like there was some serious work done in this but there's nothing in here like I got my air conditioner I got my lamp I got my printer and some other things on that tool bench and the rest of the garage is not for garage use but I got a tool shed that I built years ago small shed put it together myself look I am a Jew but I am built for athletics I'm built for building choose not to that's all doesn't mean I can't do it
Marc:So what happened was got a screen door problem.
Marc:My front door is a weird custom built door that was probably made in the early 1900s.
Marc:I have no idea when it was made.
Marc:It's not really replaceable unless I go to a wood shop.
Marc:Didn't get that deep into the tools.
Marc:The hinges are custom, so it sits on the door in a weird way.
Marc:But there is a screen in it.
Marc:Don't know how when that screen was replaced or when it was actually put in.
Marc:It's got to be 50 years, 40 years ago.
Marc:So the screen started disintegrating.
Marc:There's a large hole in it.
Marc:LaFonda figured out how to jump in and out of the hole, put a big piece of cardboard over the bottom of the door.
Marc:Then LaFonda figured out how to climb up over the cardboard for both in and out.
Marc:And then Monkey figured it out.
Marc:And then something had to be done because we can't have Monkey outside because he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing out there.
Marc:He got out the other night and I watched him stand in the middle of the neighbor's field next door on the slope, just sitting there going, yeah.
Marc:just he might as well have been calling out for a coyote to come crunch his head off back to the screen so of course being the guy that i am busy and whatnot i thought i got to get a guy i got to get a screen guy where do you get a screen guy can i just look up screen guy do i got to take the door off and bring it to a screen guy and then i thought hey marin you're a man who knows how to handle a screwdriver at the very least
Marc:Why don't you try to fix this door yourself?
Marc:Now that could be the beginning of a bad situation because a lot of, you know, maybe you're the type of person I am.
Marc:Sometimes you start those projects and you're like, you get about halfway into them and you realize, holy shit, I have no fucking idea how to do this.
Marc:Now I've got the door off its hinges.
Marc:I've got the screen frame off and I don't have the right tool to do this.
Marc:And now it's just going to sit here like this, whatever.
Marc:I pulled that fucking door off and I carefully took the frame.
Marc:It's an old style screen.
Marc:So the frame is not like the one you roll in putty.
Marc:You got to pull the frame off.
Marc:And I pulled the frame off carefully because I thought I was going to use the frame.
Marc:And I don't know when the last time this thing was changed, but there was termite damage underneath the frame on the door that looked like it was at least 100 years old.
Marc:My house was built in 1925.
Marc:Now we'll get back to that in a second.
Marc:So now I know what I got to do.
Marc:I got to go buy the wood for the frame because I can't use the old frame.
Marc:So I go, go to the, to the OSH hardware, get, find the wood that I need, pull out a couple of planks, bring it to the guy there.
Marc:I said, can you cut it at an angle?
Marc:Cause I need to build a frame because we don't cut angles.
Marc:You need one of these things.
Marc:One of those saws with the little thing that you slide it into the slats and it cuts in an angle.
Marc:Bought one of those for eight bucks, brought the wood home.
Marc:Figured out the right lengths.
Marc:Cut the angles.
Marc:Pulled the screen off.
Marc:Got a roll of screen.
Marc:Rolled it out.
Marc:Stapled it in.
Marc:I was told to staple it in.
Marc:Put the frame in around it.
Marc:Took about half a day maybe.
Marc:Cost about 60 bucks.
Marc:Stained the new frame around the screen.
Marc:Put it up in front of my house.
Marc:Put the door back on its hinges.
Marc:No one believed that I could do it.
Marc:Paul Gilmartin.
Marc:who was over at my house said, let's just build a new door at my wood shop.
Marc:And I said, no, Paul, I'm going to replace this fucking screen.
Marc:He said, I wouldn't even attempt that.
Marc:And I work with wood.
Marc:You should call a guy.
Marc:You should call a screen guy.
Marc:All right, well, fuck you, doubters.
Marc:I've got a new screen and a new frame on my front door.
Marc:All right?
Marc:And if you come over, I'll be happy to show it to you.
Marc:Even because you might just walk by.
Marc:You'll open the door, but then I'll say, wait, come out here.
Marc:Look at this.
Marc:You see this?
Marc:This frame with the stain?
Marc:I did that.
Marc:I did that.
Marc:You know why?
Marc:Because I'm a Jew with tools.
Marc:I can do the tool thing if I need to.
Marc:Let's get back to the termite damage.
Marc:So what does that imply?
Marc:See, this is bug thing again.
Marc:It's fucking bugs.
Marc:This is this look like old termite damage in this door.
Marc:I mean, at least 50 years old.
Marc:So that means not unlike the ant colony that the ancient ant colony that my house seems to be built on.
Marc:What are the odds that the entire frame of my house beneath the plaster is just like balsa wood from a century of termites?
Marc:Then I started thinking, like, well, that's horrible.
Marc:So this thing could just crumble.
Marc:The whole thing could crumble because there's no foundation.
Marc:Then I had the ant guy come over who was killing ants.
Marc:I said, what are the chances?
Marc:I said, I don't know.
Marc:Usually when they're here, you know, they come back.
Marc:But I'm like, this looks very old.
Marc:And I've not seen anything.
Marc:And then, like, I realized...
Marc:What am I going to do about that?
Marc:Do I have to put the tent on the house so it looks like a circus for three days and fumigate and then I got to put the cats in cages?
Marc:Everything was unfolding into a horrendously overwhelming anxiety ridden panic for me just to think about dealing with that.
Marc:But I've not seen any of those things.
Marc:But do you ever see them?
Marc:And aren't we all decaying?
Marc:See, it's not good and evil.
Marc:It's us against bugs.
Marc:Like, I'm starting to get aches and pains.
Marc:I've talked about them.
Marc:Maybe my foundation, my infrastructure is rotting.
Marc:My house's infrastructure is rotting.
Marc:See, fucking bugs, man.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Have you ever seen a potato bug?
Marc:I had not seen one in a long time.
Marc:Because when I knew them when I was a kid, they were Jerusalem crickets.
Marc:And if you ever saw one, you would fucking just freak the hell out because they're like fucking monsters.
Marc:Well, guess where I saw one?
Marc:In my living room.
Marc:I'd never seen one here.
Marc:They are horrendous.
Marc:They look like half a scorpion, half a spider.
Marc:Their head is just two fucking fangs.
Marc:Their body is like a big old... It's...
Marc:They are fucking, they come from hell.
Marc:These things come from hell.
Marc:I had not seen one since I was a kid in a pool filter out in the fucking desert of New Mexico.
Marc:There was one in my living room.
Marc:And this is what tests your masculinity.
Marc:It's not using tools.
Marc:That's easy.
Marc:It's how do you handle a potato bug?
Marc:And do you, do you freak out?
Marc:I'm standing there with Jessica.
Marc:She's like, what is that?
Marc:And I'm like, that's a Jerusalem cricket and we have to move out of the house.
Marc:We should get a hotel room until that thing goes away.
Marc:No, I didn't say that.
Marc:I said, where's the paper towel?
Marc:Let me just do this.
Marc:And I picked it up and I put it outside.
Marc:So there you go.
Marc:I'm a saver and a handler of potato bugs.
Marc:And I'm a guy that can use a saw and one of those little slat things that cuts at an angle and then builds a frame for a door.
Marc:But I'm also not the kind of guy who would stop myself from doing the panicky, I just walked through a spiderweb dance.
Marc:The spastic dance of web panic.
Marc:Not afraid of that.
Marc:Not afraid to show that part of myself.
Marc:That's who I am.
Marc:Who are you?
Marc:So, folks, you know, sometimes on this show, I like to support comics.
Marc:I know that you think I'm a condescending douchebag or you think that, you know, sometimes I'm a little hard on comics, but I'm all for the noble undertaking by my comedian peers.
Marc:And I have something for you.
Marc:If you have not heard of the Laughter Against the Machine tour, it's happening.
Marc:Kamau Bell, Nato Green, Janine Brito, very funny lesbian.
Marc:Can I say that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:She thinks that is a compliment.
Marc:She would not take offense to that.
Guest:No.
Marc:So what we're dealing with here is this is a tour that is being made into a documentary that needs your help because they need a few more bucks.
Marc:I'm going to talk to NATO and I'm going to talk to Kamau who are on the phone in a minute, but I just want to tell you that this is a classic liberal triangle.
Marc:You have a black man, a Jewish socialist and a lesbian.
Marc:This is powerful stuff.
Marc:And these are all funny people and they're hitting the road and they're going to the, uh, the,
Guest:the main centers i'm not sure let me get you guys on now so you tell me the uh what what's behind the dates here we got september 10th and phoenix uh why phoenix uh well phoenix was really sort of sparked i mean the whole tour was inspired by arizona that after gabrielle giffords got shot uh you know we just thought every time arizona's in the news they're doing something stupid and there have got to be some cool people in arizona trying to fight back against the crazy immigrant hating face shooting
Guest:nuts down there, and they could use a laugh.
Marc:And that's where you come in.
Marc:Great.
Marc:So now tell me about Chicago, Illinois.
Marc:What about that date?
Guest:Chicago, we knew we were going to Dearborn and to Madison, Wisconsin, and we wanted to go to Chicago.
Guest:Kamau and I both have roots there, and Chicago has this incredible history, and so we sort of wanted to touch down there before forging deeper into the Midwest to Dearborn on the 16th,
Guest:which is historically a white racist city that was of Ford factory workers that has been overtaken by Muslims and now has the biggest Muslim population in the country.
Guest:And we thought that was interesting.
Marc:Can I ask you a question, Nato?
Marc:I mean, I just want to make sure you check yourself.
Marc:You did say overtaken.
Marc:You did say that.
Guest:I'm comfortable saying that white races have been overtaken by by Arabs.
Marc:OK, OK.
Marc:So that was intentional.
Marc:I just I didn't know if that maybe something slipped out of you.
Marc:And no.
Marc:OK.
Marc:OK.
Marc:Madison, Wisconsin, obviously the great recall elections and union activity.
Marc:And then we go to Washington, D.C.
Marc:to take it right to the Capitol Steps.
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:Where are you performing there?
Marc:On the Capitol Steps, fellas?
Guest:Yeah, basically, but down the street and across town.
Marc:Oh, you mean you're going to be performing in front of the monument, Kamau?
Marc:Is this going to happen?
Guest:Well, you know, it's near the monument, but not there either.
Marc:What venue?
Marc:The Art Center.
Guest:It's the D.C.
Guest:Arts Center, which is, you know, we're going to take, that's why we're the documentary crew.
Guest:We might go to the Capitol and try to take it to the Capitol, but then we'll do a show later that evening and tell everybody what happened.
Marc:Okay, and New Orleans, obviously devastated by Katrina.
Guest:New Orleans for everything that's happened to New Orleans since the founding of New Orleans.
Marc:Yeah, all right, and then you end up in Oakland, which is obviously Oakland.
Guest:yeah it's our home base and again oakland pretty much for the same reasons we're going to new orleans but you know so and it's actually the even though we're all we need to live in san francisco oakland has always been a place where the lap against machine shows have gone the best so that's our home that's our home in the bay area so now you're hoping to stir up some shit and get some documentary footage so now what's it what do people need to do in order to get this uh over the top you need 20k you've got uh 14 and change
Marc:And they go to Kickstarter.
Marc:It seems to me the easiest way for people to make a contribution to this movie getting made is to go to Kickstarter and do a search for laughter against the machine and to kick in a few bucks.
Marc:And it seems that there's tiers of donations.
Marc:Like, I think that if you donate like a thousand dollars, you can you can have a threesome with whoever you want.
Marc:Is that you pick?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Well, you have to have it with the three of us.
Guest:But, yes, you can have a foursome if you want to.
Guest:Bring someone else.
Marc:Yeah, and that would be considered a political action.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So, yeah, if you go to Kickstarter, you look up Laughter Against the Machine, there are several different tiers of donation, and there are things that you get, you know, meet and greet, dinners, this, that, and the other thing.
Marc:Go and check it out.
Marc:But this is a good cause because there aren't a lot of people doing
Marc:this type of comedy anymore and bringing it to uh to people in politically charged areas in order to sort of disarm uh some of the bullshit that has gone down in the last 50 years you are disarming 50 years worth of bullshit or should we say maybe 100 years worth of bullshit
Marc:i'm going with a thousand years of bullshit holy shit nato that is a that is a big undertaking well it's a lot of work all right so and we only have till friday to raise the money so okay so you got till friday it'd be great to get this movie made and i and i really want my listeners to help out so go to kickstarter uh look up uh search laughter against the machine and kick in whatever you can because i think this should be an interesting tour and go see the live shows as well in those dates mentioned what is the site that they can go get all the information about the tour fellas
Marc:latmcomedy.com latmcomedy.com for the tour info kickstarter look up laughter against the machine to help support these liberal bastards in their agenda
Marc:I find that picture frightening.
Marc:That is my mother's mother's mother.
Marc:So that's my great-grandmother.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know why those pictures are always creepy.
Guest:Well, it's the times.
Guest:People were just... Don't you think we should be talking about this on air?
Marc:We are talking about it on air.
Oh.
Marc:It's all happening.
Guest:Yeah, I just think that those were the times.
Guest:People didn't say to you, smile.
Guest:Really?
Guest:In Yiddish.
Guest:No, people were conservative and quiet and introspective in the old country.
Marc:I don't think there was a lot of joy.
Guest:Maybe there was dancing at weddings and simchas, but day to day there wasn't a lot of laughs.
Marc:That is not how my mother characterizes that woman in that picture.
Marc:My mother characterizes her grandmother as being a terror that made her eat horrible things and blames her.
Marc:That woman?
Marc:That woman apparently was evil and forced my mother to eat.
Guest:Okay, but we're saying the same thing.
Guest:She doesn't look happy.
Guest:She looks hard.
Marc:She looks... But I mean, I don't... Okay, maybe I just can't see the screaming version in my mind.
Guest:Well, I don't know if she was... I can't testify to whether she was a screamer.
Guest:Those are all her kids?
Guest:Those are...
Marc:My grandmother is on the left.
Guest:That.
Marc:That little girl on the left.
Marc:And that's my Uncle George in the back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's Gussie.
Marc:My great aunt Gussie.
Guest:There's always a Gussie.
Guest:There's always a Gussie.
Marc:What does that stand for?
Marc:Is it just Gussie?
Marc:Is it Gertrude?
Guest:It's Gertrude.
Guest:Oh, it is.
Guest:Yeah, because also, I know a lot of people-
Guest:Who are Gertrude who were Gizzi, who are from Hungary.
Guest:Gizzi is the Hungarian version of Gertrude.
Marc:That's Poland.
Marc:Poland being represented there.
Guest:That's our Polish.
Marc:Sandra Bernhard is in my garage.
Marc:We're talking about old Jews in a very abstract way as we both are slowly becoming them.
Guest:My friend, Elise Roth, who's a producer and a huge fan of yours.
Marc:Oh, I know her.
Guest:Lisey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:E. Roth, the buzies.
Marc:What is she?
Marc:How do I know her?
Marc:I feel like we've met and everything.
Guest:You have.
Guest:I'm pretty sure she knows you and you've worked and done something together.
Marc:Now I feel bad.
Marc:I feel like I should edit in.
Marc:Of course, Elise.
Marc:How is she?
Guest:There, that's fine.
Guest:That'll make Elise happy.
Guest:Just leave it.
Guest:Anyway, she said that you're also from Arizona?
Marc:New Mexico.
Guest:Oh, New Mexico.
Marc:My brother lives in Arizona.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You grew up there?
Guest:Well, I moved to Arizona when I was 10.
Marc:But you are too, you're ingrained and wired East Coast Jew, aren't you?
Guest:No, actually I'm from Michigan originally.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I'm a Midwest Jew.
Marc:That has just as much integrity.
Guest:Yeah, it does.
Guest:If not more.
Marc:Yeah, there was a small tribe that spread out throughout the Midwest.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Not so small.
Guest:I mean, a big tribe.
Marc:Wisconsin, all those places.
Guest:Michigan and Ohio.
Marc:How did your family get there?
Guest:You know, my grandparents came from Russia.
Marc:To Michigan.
Guest:To Michigan.
Marc:Were they farmers or anything?
Guest:No, they were in the junk business.
Marc:Junk business.
Marc:Scrap and iron.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Why did you gravitate towards that?
Marc:Some of the guys who made the studios out here.
Guest:Because that's what they did.
Guest:That's what they did in the old country.
Guest:They were rag pickers.
Guest:You know, that was all that was available.
Marc:Are you fascinated with that?
Guest:Of course I am.
Marc:So did you track down like your grandfather?
Marc:What was your grandfather's name?
Guest:Well, I didn't have to track him down.
Guest:My grandfather.
Guest:He was there?
Guest:I grew up with him.
Guest:Sam Lozebnik.
Guest:Lozebnik.
Guest:L-A-Z-E-B-N-I-K, which means barber surgeon.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So in those days, apparently, if you were a barber, you could also remove somebody's appendix.
Marc:I think that was the way it was.
Marc:Yeah, in the Middle Ages, I guess all the way through, it was the same thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I get sort of, I kind of get fascinated with it, but I don't get too hung up on it.
Marc:I think more when I was a kid, I was sort of hung up on my whole heritage.
Marc:And I knew, you know, I've got an Izzy somewhere back there, and they were, I don't know.
Guest:I've got everybody.
Guest:Listen.
Marc:What?
Guest:My grandfather, Sam, and his brother,
Guest:Uncle Joe, who when he came to this country, ended up with the last name Davidson because his father was David.
Guest:So when they came, I don't know, when they came in, they'd ask questions and he probably just said, they probably said, what's your father's name?
Guest:David.
Guest:So they just called him Davidson.
Guest:So he didn't have Lisbon.
Guest:He had Davidson.
Guest:It was Joe Davidson, Sam Lisbonik, then my grandmother, Edith.
Guest:Edith Eisenberg and her sister, Bessie.
Marc:Bessie.
Guest:Two sisters married two brothers.
Guest:So Bessie and Joe were married and Sam and Itka, which is her Yiddish name.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:So we have all these double cousins on that side.
Guest:It's nuts.
Marc:My father's grandparents on his mother's side were first cousins.
Guest:There's that too, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know how they let that happen.
Guest:But this is a little different.
Guest:It's two brothers.
Marc:No, no, of course I said there's no incest involved.
Guest:Maybe there was.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:I am fortunate to have the legacy of diabetes and heart disease and shaky genes due to a cousin coupling.
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Do you ever get that feeling when you look at Orthodox Jews that they... I've had this discussion before.
Guest:I get a lot of feelings when I look at Orthodox Jews.
Marc:What are they?
Guest:Well, I get the feeling that there's not a lot of, you know, hygiene.
Marc:Right.
Guest:With these men that are wearing, you know, the strembles, the fur hats.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know.
Marc:So they smell.
Guest:Listen.
Guest:All right, all right.
Guest:From herring.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:From sweat, from praying.
Marc:Yeah, not only do they dress like it's an 18th century Poland or whatever it is, but they eat the same way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I've had this conversation before.
Marc:Do you ever look at them and think like, you know, without the getup, this guy doesn't look Jewish?
Yeah.
Marc:Like their red hair or some of that fine skin because they're not spreading out the gene pool enough.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:We don't have to.
Guest:It's very crazy.
Guest:I don't want people to think we're anti-Semitic either.
Marc:Aren't we allowed to be as Jews?
Guest:Or is that bad?
Guest:I think it's more self-referential and it's introspection.
Guest:It's like we want to get better.
Guest:We don't want to just stay in the loop.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there's something I love about the continuity and the history of it.
Guest:I mean, it's fascinating.
Marc:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Guest:And it's just like, boom, we left Eastern Europe and boom, here we are.
Guest:And it's like in 100 years, it's like we bear no resemblance to the people we were.
Guest:In that picture.
Guest:I find that, well, I've seen some women who look like that.
Marc:Yeah, they're just done up a little better.
Marc:They got different hairstyle, a little more attention to accessories.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's true.
Marc:So, okay, so Scottsdale, Arizona, is that where you were?
Guest:Yeah, that's where I went to high school.
Marc:Did you know Gary Shanley?
Guest:I didn't know Gary then, no.
Guest:I know Gary now, but not then.
Marc:So let me tell you how I became sort of obsessed with you a while back.
Marc:When I was in high school, you're not that much older than me, but I remember seeing The King of Comedy and I was like, this is fucking amazing.
Marc:But then I was a doorman at the comedy store.
Marc:And I was a doorman at the Comedy Store in 1987.
Marc:And the Belly Room at that time was not, it was just a place where non-paid regulars work.
Marc:But she still had the pictures up there.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:For the original concept of the Belly Room.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:So your picture is up there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I don't think a lot of people necessarily associate you with straight up stand up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which you are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when did you come out here?
Marc:What age were you?
Guest:I was 18.
Guest:I came out in 1974.
Guest:That summer I went to manicuring school, Charles Ross School of Beauty on Beverly Boulevard next to Jan's Coffee Shop.
Marc:Do you still got it?
Guest:Well, I dream that I still have it, which scares the hell out of me that I'm back manicuring again.
Guest:And about a year later, I hooked up with this woman named Judy Vallon who had performed special material by her mother.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:Well, in the day, people would write special material for people, like songs, kind of like vaudeville, burlesque-esque.
Guest:That's what they called it?
Guest:Yeah, special material by whoever wrote the material.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So I forgot how I met her.
Guest:She lived around the corner above an SM leather bar in my neighborhood because I lived on Norton Avenue at the time.
Marc:Oh my God, my phone now.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Guest:Don't worry, I don't care.
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:So she said, I don't know, I had a party one night, and I was doing my early, late teen Sandy shtick, and she goes, she was screaming laughter.
Guest:This is a woman who left her children behind in Ohio.
Marc:So you had no aspirations to be a stand-up?
Marc:You were just hanging out?
Guest:I had aspirations to move to LA and become either a singer,
Guest:I really wanted to be a musical comedy star.
Guest:I was influenced by Carol Channing when I was eight years old when I saw her in Hello Dolly and the Fisher Theater in Detroit.
Guest:However, the years changed.
Guest:Musical comedy shifted.
Guest:Not that.
Guest:I just suddenly realized it really wasn't my bailiwick.
Guest:I mean, there was a short window of opportunity that I thought musical comedy was interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At this point, I've been through too much.
Guest:I've traveled to Israel.
Guest:I've been exposed to all kinds of interesting music.
Guest:I love Joni Mitchell.
Guest:You went to Israel?
Guest:Yeah, I worked on a kibbutz for eight months after high school.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:It was fabulous.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I had a great time.
Marc:So you were pretty Jewish.
Guest:It wasn't even about being Jewish then because 90% of the volunteers on the kibbutz were from all around the world.
Guest:So it was from South Africa and England and Australia and not even Jewish.
Marc:And what'd you do?
Marc:You planted things?
Guest:I did everything.
Guest:I picked fruit.
Guest:Did it change your life?
Guest:Yeah, it changed my life.
Guest:It changed my, well, not that I, as a kid, didn't have a work ethic, but no, what kids don't know about work ethics.
Guest:So I learned about getting up every morning and doing something mundane that had a payoff in the sense of great...
Guest:Being part of the community.
Guest:A reward that you've done something and you've helped.
Guest:So I took that experience to Hollywood with me and wasn't afraid to get up every morning and work as a manicurist to support myself and then go off.
Guest:So a year later, Judy Vallon says you gotta come to the Ye Little Club, which had open mic night.
Guest:That's where Joan Rivers used to do her act.
Guest:On Cannon Drive.
Guest:So she took me there and she said you're gonna meet Paul Mooney.
Guest:I've told Paul Mooney all about you.
Guest:A young Paul Mooney.
Guest:Yeah, and you're going to meet Lotus Weinstock.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Then they're going to love you.
Guest:And I got up and I was wearing safari shorts, a safari jacket, a hat, and some lace-up espadrilles.
Guest:And I got on stage and I did my Mary Tyler Moore impression.
Guest:Oh, Robert Petrie, you have ruined your birthday surprise.
Guest:Then I did my first joke.
Guest:I'm a medium.
Guest:I understand you're a small, you're an extra large.
Guest:That was the first, I never, I mean, I don't write jokes, but I had to write a joke.
Guest:So that was my joke.
Guest:And so I had five to seven minutes of material.
Guest:I got off stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Paul Mooney and Lotus Weinstein, you know, wrapped their arms around me and Paul Mooney said,
Guest:Bernhard I'm Mooney you're brilliant they're gonna put you through hell in this town they put you through hell in a pair of kerosene drawers your cigarette come to life and Lotus was just like my earth mother and the two of them really became my angels in this business so that was a so that scene was it was it more of a variety show was all stand-ups was the comedy store open yet
Guest:Oh yeah, the comedy store was open.
Guest:Like just a few years?
Guest:This is where you went before you could get on at the comedy store.
Marc:Right, but Mooney was already at the comedy store.
Guest:Oh, Mooney was there.
Guest:Mooney was at the comedy store.
Marc:So there's like a satellite room.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But you still went and did your shtick all around town.
Guest:And everybody was doing it.
Guest:And then from there- Who else was on the scene?
Guest:You know, who was on the scene then?
Guest:Everybody.
Guest:When I started off, Letterman, Jay Leno, Elaine Boosler.
Marc:Cheech and Chong.
Guest:chich and chong were already no no they were already i i did i did a small role in their film um was it um up in smoke or something yeah yeah i just i'm just going by the pictures i remember i'm still sort of obsessed with those pictures no no chich and chong had already become craig t nelson was on the wall there barry levinson i mean did these guys actually do stand up in your recollection i was there oh but you were there almost at the beginning right yeah yeah but i don't remember them per se they might have just stopped robin williams got up every night yeah
Guest:I'm thinking of all the different people that were there on a regular basis.
Marc:So you were there with Letterman when he started, basically.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you guys was, and Roseanne, not yet.
Marc:That was before her time.
Guest:No, no, Roseanne came long after I had left the comedy scene.
Marc:And what was your experience with Mitzi, and how did people get in then?
Guest:Mitzi was very, she didn't like a lot of women.
Guest:She liked her men around her, Argus Hamilton.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and all the people that she had affairs with.
Guest:Steve Landisberg.
Marc:Was he doing stand-up then?
Guest:Yes, he was doing stand-up.
Marc:What was that like?
Guest:Very droll, esoteric.
Guest:I didn't really stand and watch them.
Marc:Who did you watch?
Marc:Like who were the people that you were like, holy shit, was Pryor coming around?
Guest:Pryor would come around because then Paul Mooney got me on the Pryor show.
Guest:He got all of us on the Pryor show on NBC.
Guest:Robin and yeah, and Marshall Warfield, everybody who was on that show was because of Mooney.
Marc:Was he, did you gravitate towards Richard at all in the sense of his comedy?
Guest:I always loved, yeah, I mean, he's brilliant.
Guest:I mean, I loved, I mean, two of my really early influences comedically were Lily Tomlin and Bette Medler.
Guest:So when I first started performing, I was kind of like, I was a hybrid because I wanted to sing, you know, and I wanted music.
Guest:So I took that kind of, you know, high energy from that meddler.
Guest:And then, you know, the kind of just the flow and intellectual aspect of Willie Tomlin, I kind of merged the two initially, just because I, you know, everybody, you just, you have to emulate somebody when you start.
Guest:And then shortly after that I began to develop my own style.
Guest:Because I took it more of a rock and roll direction and then I got more into fashion and reading from magazines and doing all my little- On stage?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would talk about being a manicurist because of course I was doing that.
Guest:So that was a great kind of like, I talk about my clients and the ladies of Beverly Hills and slowly evolve my style.
Marc:Now, when you were doing that, so you weren't singing yet on stage?
Guest:No, not right away, but within a year I was singing.
Guest:Because there was always a piano player at clubs.
Guest:So I would give them sheet music and I would do a song at the end of my show.
Guest:My signature piece was Desperado by the Eagles.
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Guest:So I would always close my show with Desperado.
Guest:People were like, what?
Guest:I just did it.
Guest:I wrote it through.
Guest:I wrote it through.
Marc:You sang it earnestly?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For what reason?
Marc:You just liked it?
Guest:Because I liked the song and I liked what I had to say.
Guest:And, you know, it was all about, like, you know, being alone and, you know, out on the range, basically.
Guest:It kind of was metaphoric, you know, for me.
Guest:I was like, here I was this, you know, young woman in L.A.
Guest:on her own, so.
Marc:But you're pretty like when I watch you from early on, like in early clips and even in, you know, well, King of Comedy was obviously was a character.
Marc:I mean, there's a certain like an insane intensity and there's something almost menacing about your stand up sometimes in the point where like I was a little nervous that you were coming over because you're fucking a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah.
Guest:I'm only a force to be reckoned with when I'm really hungry because I get hypoglycemic.
Marc:Do you starve yourself before shows?
Guest:No, no, no, not at all.
Guest:But I feel like I've gone in different directions.
Guest:I mean, I don't think that's really the thrust of my shows anymore.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I'm just talking about what back then.
Guest:Historically.
Guest:Listen, I had to be that tough because I was on my own.
Guest:You pull up to the comedy store.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Got to park in the parking lot.
Guest:You're a lady alone.
Guest:I was a girl.
Guest:I was a kid, you know, living in Hollywood and stuff.
Marc:But how were you received by male comics?
Marc:Because I mean, I don't like to bring this up because I've been criticized for it.
Marc:But there is a sort of sexism.
Marc:Well, I know.
Marc:No, I don't mind bringing that up.
Marc:But I mean, just the competition of it all.
Guest:Yeah, there's always competition and there still is.
Guest:I mean, I think people like, you know, comics don't really, really like each other underneath at all.
Guest:You don't?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean... Why?
Guest:Because I think it's threatening.
Guest:I mean, there's a small pool of material to draw from.
Marc:But do you think that comedians like anybody deep down?
Guest:Most comics don't like themselves to start with, so they probably don't like too many other people.
Guest:I never liked the comedy scene because of that.
Guest:I like a sense of camaraderie.
Guest:Most of my friends are music people.
Guest:I'm very good friends with Roseanne because she transcends stand-up comedy.
Marc:She transcends most things.
Guest:Yeah, because she's crazy and brilliant.
Guest:So I never, you know, with the exception of Paul Mooney and Lotus, because Lotus also was a singer-songwriter and had a very soulful quality, and she'd been on the, you know, she'd gone out with Lenny Bruce.
Marc:Yeah, when she was a kid almost, right?
Guest:When she was a kid.
Guest:So, you know, I've always been attracted to people who are very eclectic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Were most of these guys that all of us know now as these, you know,
Marc:like Letterman and Leno and the guys who were at the store at that time, were they nice to you?
Marc:I mean, did you guys hang out?
Guest:No, I mean, no.
Guest:I mean, they were fine.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:They're weird guys.
Guest:It's a weird business to be in.
Guest:Everybody's trying to get laid and everybody's trying to be groovy.
Guest:They were just kind of around?
Guest:Yeah, they were around.
Guest:I didn't really like any of them.
Marc:I guess that we're all sort of social misfits on some level.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There is that element to it.
Guest:I don't feel like I'm a social ... I never felt like I was a social misfit because I was influenced by ... I liked old Hollywood.
Guest:I liked Broadway.
Guest:I liked glamor.
Guest:I wasn't trying to denigrate ... I never denigrated myself.
Guest:I never did self-deprecating material, which was very unusual for a woman at that time.
Guest:I celebrated myself, and I think that was very disarming for people.
Marc:And at that time, you chose not to get stuck in that kind of like stand-up comedy club circuit.
Marc:You made some sort of conscious decision at some point.
Guest:Well, I was lucky because, I mean, shortly after, you know, well, I was on the scene for five years.
Guest:You know, I was making the rounds.
Guest:I was doing, you know, Rusty Blitz's, you know, big old place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know Rusty Blitz?
Guest:No.
Guest:You don't remember Rusty?
Guest:Before my time.
Guest:There were a lot of weird places you could go and do your act that had 20, 25 people.
Guest:But those are the places where you hone your craft.
Marc:Where you can figure out new stuff.
Guest:Yeah, you get up, you fall, you get up, you fall, you get up.
Guest:But by 1981, I had been cast in King of Comedy.
Marc:How did that happen?
Guest:I asked you my friend Lucy Webb, who was part of a comedy team.
Guest:My friend Cheryl Henry and Lucy Webb had a comedy team.
Guest:And Lucy had gone up for the role.
Guest:Almost every actress and every comedian in Hollywood had gone up for the king of comedy.
Guest:And my agent at the time, who was Chris Albrecht.
Guest:From HBO?
Guest:Yeah, he was at ICM.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:He kept telling me he had gotten me up for it, but he hadn't gotten me up for the role.
Guest:And Lucy said, you've got to get up for this role, Sandra.
Guest:I'm going to call Cis Corman myself.
Guest:She called Cis Corman, and I set up my own meeting.
Marc:She's the casting director?
Guest:She was the casting director.
Guest:I went in, and I improvised and read from the script, and she looked at me, and she went,
Guest:hmm, I think Marty would like to meet you.
Guest:So I think it was either the next day or maybe later that day I came back and I met with Marty and I read for him and he was, you know, and then he- Was he like intense and frenetic?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he and De Niro came to the comedy store to see me perform and Richard Belzer got up and improvised with me like kind of the way it would be in King of Comedy.
Guest:Oh really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:As a favor to you or did they ask him to?
Guest:I asked him, but he loved me.
Marc:He's a great guy.
Guest:Bells are so sweet.
Guest:So we did this funny little improv.
Guest:They loved that.
Guest:A month went by.
Guest:I didn't hear anything.
Guest:I went down with Mooney to Palm Springs.
Guest:I said, it's not happening.
Guest:I was depressed.
Guest:Then I got back.
Guest:It was before cell phones.
Guest:They had left me a message on my answering machine.
Guest:I was like, oh my God.
Guest:So they flew me to New York.
Guest:and I met with Jerry Lewis, and I auditioned with Jerry Lewis, and that was kind of like, they had to see how I interacted with Jerry.
Guest:So I was hanging around for a couple of days.
Guest:Do you remember Bell Zwerdling, who was at the door, at the comedy store?
Marc:No, I was a doorman in 1980, late.
Guest:I was late.
Guest:By this point, she'd already become an agent.
Guest:Anyway, Bell was with me, and we were sitting on my bed at the...
Guest:Mayflower Hotel on Central Park West, the phone rang, and they told me, says Carmen told me I got the role, and I was just like, I didn't even know how to respond.
Marc:They said Jerry likes you.
Guest:Yeah, they love me, they love me, and then we went downstairs to have lunch at the conservatory, and then De Niro and Scorsese walked by, and I ran after them down the street, just like Masha would in King of Comedy.
Guest:I grabbed them, and I hugged them, and they were scared, and the whole thing was just like, and that was like, you know, boom.
Guest:So exactly 30 years ago, as a matter of fact, that we shot King of Comedy.
Guest:So how old were you?
Guest:I turned 26 my first night of shooting.
Marc:That's fucking unbelievable.
Marc:And when you were doing it, how much leeway did you have in that character?
Marc:I mean, obviously, I would imagine that a lot of people identify you with that character.
Yeah.
Guest:They do.
Marc:And they assume she's pretty much like that.
Guest:Well, they did at the time, which I think probably was the reason I didn't get as many film roles as I should have gotten.
Guest:And also I had terrible representation.
Guest:So I never got up for roles so I could go in and read for a part and show them.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:You can't even look at things like that.
Guest:That's what happened.
Guest:It propelled my live performing career.
Guest:which is what I did a lot of.
Guest:And then I did other things, and here we are.
Guest:Careers are so funny.
Guest:They're just weird.
Marc:Well, I think what's interesting, and we'll get to the evolution of it, is that what you set out to do, you did.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And whatever...
Marc:wherever you thought you might have been or whoever we are.
Marc:I mean, I'm in my garage hosting a podcast.
Marc:I'm not sure this was exactly the plan.
Guest:Yeah, but everybody loves it.
Guest:It's successful.
Marc:Well, people dig it, and I'm happy with it, but everybody loves you too, and you seem to do all right for yourself.
Guest:Oh, I do.
Marc:But I want to know about Jerry Lewis.
Guest:Jerry Lewis was insane.
Guest:If you've talked about this a million times, I apologize.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:You're reaching out to a different audience.
Guest:These are great stories.
Guest:These are stories I'm going to tell my whole life.
Guest:I mean, Jerry Lewis was insane.
Guest:He wore a different pair of socks every day.
Guest:He cut his own hair with a flow bead, you know, and those flow bead combs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was just like he has his own thing.
Guest:He used Dunhill aftershave.
Guest:He wore a certain kind of collared shirt, and he wore this pinky ring with his Jerry Lewis.
Marc:Did you have any understanding of him as a performer before?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:You were a fan, or you did?
Guest:I grew up with Jerry.
Guest:Who didn't grow up with Jerry Lewis in the 50s, 60s, 70s?
Marc:So you saw the movies?
Guest:I saw the movies, The Nutty Professor.
Guest:I watched the muscular dystrophy.
Marc:So was there a moment where this is a different Jerry Lewis?
Guest:Well, it wasn't so much about that.
Guest:It was just more like, oh my God, this is like acting with my father.
Guest:I mean, my dad's name is Jerry also, and he's equally as intimidating.
Marc:What's your dad do?
Guest:He was a doctor.
Guest:He's been retired for a long time.
Marc:I grew up with a doctor, too.
Guest:That's what I heard.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What kind of doctor was your dad?
Marc:Orthopedic surgeon.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:But he screwed everything up.
Marc:But that's another story.
Marc:He was a little nuts.
Marc:But doctors are a lot to deal with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad, too.
Marc:He screwed it up?
Marc:Well, what do you mean?
Marc:Well, my dad, you know, my dad's a little bipolar and, you know, he kind of made a mess of his life and his career.
Guest:My dad wasn't bipolar.
Guest:He was just narcissistic and really mean.
Marc:Yeah, I got that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Super mean and abusive and like he's totally, you know, totally has excommunicated myself and my three brothers.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because he needs to blame people.
Guest:He's blamed everything his whole life on other people.
Marc:Well, what is his particular victimness?
Marc:I mean, what is he blaming them for?
Marc:You don't know?
Guest:Just for mistreating him and disrespect.
Guest:There's always disrespect in my dad's life.
Marc:What is it with fucking narcissists?
Marc:They're such babies.
Guest:I mean, I've tried to reconnect with him, and it was just the same old shit.
Guest:And I was like, I'm not dealing with this crap anymore.
Guest:My three brothers were all like, fuck this.
Guest:You know, who needs it?
Guest:My brothers are all, you know, successful, professional people.
Guest:I'm a fucking superstar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and we're all, at the same time, we love our family.
Guest:We're very close.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're all real with each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But my father couldn't hack it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It was just like, he couldn't cut it.
Marc:It didn't make the cut.
Guest:No, he didn't make, he excommunicated himself.
Marc:Because it wasn't enough about him anymore.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:you know i just don't know what the hell to do with that and then when he finally if you you know what's weird is that when i had when i finally pushed my dad to the wall to see what was in there you know what's in there fuck you that's right that's right it's the weirdest thing you're looking like there's got to be a heart there but you know really when you're sort of when you're going after those needs no it's not there but isn't that bizarre have you fully accepted the fact that somehow or another they're not going to be the parent you want
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, listen.
Marc:What?
Guest:This is what I look at.
Guest:I look at all the great things I got growing up from my father because I got a great sense of confidence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he had his own sense of humor and fun, you know, because when you're young, you know, and you're a parent, you're entertaining your kids.
Guest:Oh, you love them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God, my dad's so funny.
Guest:I mean, I would stand in front of the mirror with my dad and put shave cream on my face and take the edge of my toothbrush and pretend I was shaving while he was shaving.
Guest:I worshipped my dad growing up.
Marc:What kind of doctor?
Guest:He was a GP, but he also did proctology, which was just so ridiculous.
Guest:There's no end to the humor.
Guest:You know me.
Guest:I'm too sophisticated.
Guest:I never mind that particular field.
Guest:Except there was only one joke I ever had.
Guest:My father's a proctologist.
Guest:My mother's an abstract artist.
Guest:That's how I view the world.
Guest:That was my line for many years.
Guest:And that was enough of a commentary.
Marc:Yeah, that was very good.
Guest:And people always like that.
Guest:Anyway, where were we?
Guest:Jerry Lewis.
Guest:So you're working with Jerry Lewis?
Guest:I worked with Jerry Lewis.
Guest:He was, you know, he's incredibly intimidating.
Guest:I mean, he's a legend.
Guest:He doesn't, you know, at the time, especially, he didn't like women.
Guest:I mean, you know, he used women, but he used women in his movies as foils.
Guest:You know, there was no, I mean, it was just like they were there to go, oh, Jerry, you know what I mean?
Marc:But even more recently, he made a comment, I think, maybe at the Aspen Comedy Festival a while back, that there's no funny women.
Guest:Yeah, but I think he's softened since then because I was at his roast at the Friars Club about six years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he saw me and he was like weeping like, oh my God, I've heard great things about you and I'm so proud of you.
Guest:He was so sweet to me.
Marc:Isn't it interesting these guys that, you know, like you were fortunate enough to work with him, but like they, they came up in a time where you made 20 movies.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That, you know, some movies that nobody ever saw, but they were always doing movies.
Marc:And like this one movie was sort of a life defining thing for you.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And, you know, on some level for him, it was like another movie.
Guest:It was and it wasn't.
Guest:I'll tell you because for two reasons.
Guest:He was playing a dramatic character and he wasn't directing it and in charge of it.
Guest:So that was very challenging for him.
Guest:And Scorsese is very generous and allowed him to give his input in different capacities just to assuage him.
Guest:And I understood that.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:It's Jerry Lewis.
Guest:It's a different generation.
Marc:I remember some guy made a point about that when I read a review of that movie, that scene where I think you're chasing him.
Marc:In the midst of all this sort of darkness and this serious character, he did that ridiculous run of his feet.
Marc:His feet were flailing about.
Guest:He's amazing.
Marc:So now after that movie, though, because I'm trying to think when there was a point where I knew you were on tour.
Marc:And I think I was I was back in Albuquerque where I grew up and you were performing somewhere.
Marc:And I just got the feeling that that did you go through like after that?
Marc:Your expectations were pretty high, I imagine.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And did you get bitter?
Guest:Oh, no, no, no, no.
Guest:I never got bitter.
Guest:No?
Marc:Did you get angry?
Guest:No, I just got confused.
Guest:I just didn't know.
Guest:I kind of jumped around to a few different agents.
Guest:I probably should have stayed with one agent.
Guest:I should have stayed with an agent who could have groomed me in a different way.
Guest:The only time I really hooked up with great agents was in the late 80s.
Guest:Sue Mengers, super agent, who was a legend, went back to William Morris, and she took me on along with a few other agents.
Guest:and that's when they got me Hudson Hawk, which was supposed to be a huge, huge, huge movie, and it was the first movie that Bruce Willis ever did that bombed.
Guest:So that was upsetting, because that was a turning point where I was supposed to be kind of the comedic, funny person who should have just jumped from one film to the next.
Guest:But because when things bomb in Hollywood, on to the next person, like you had something to do with it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But of course, Bruce Willis has made a huge comeback, but I'm still waiting for my next big role in a film.
Marc:But what was the next film?
Marc:Well, you did the documentary, but that was years later, right?
Guest:Well, yeah, I did my live performance.
Guest:No, it wasn't that.
Guest:Actually, it was right around the same time.
Marc:For the first one, for the first show, the one-person show.
Guest:Yeah, but it was like a film.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Was it black and white, kind of?
Marc:Was there parts of it black and white?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but we just did it.
Guest:It was intercut with interviews, these fake interviews about people that were supposedly in my life.
Guest:And then this woman who was kind of floating through as my alter ego, this beautiful black woman.
Guest:It's a great film, too.
Guest:I think King of Comedy and Without You, I'm Nothing, the film are two of my, in terms of filmmaking.
Marc:Well, I think the amazing thing about you is that you have a sophisticated sense of art and what you just don't find a lot in comedy all the time.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That, you know, you had a sensitivity to, you know, not vaudeville, but, you know, true sort of cabaret and true show business.
Marc:And you were able to sort of build yourself into this.
Marc:this force that has to do with comedy.
Marc:But I don't know why for some reason I was so intimidated by you and your comedy was always so fucking ballsy and you meant business.
Marc:To me, you were like, holy fuck.
Marc:Now, when Roseanne used to do on her show as a recurring character, that was a gay character and that had never really been done before.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, we started off where she marries Tom Arnold, his character.
Guest:And then the whole premise was he was so disgusting that he turned me gay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That was the jumping off place.
Guest:That was where we came up with it.
Guest:It wasn't like, let's do a gay character and blow everybody's mind.
Guest:It was more whimsical.
Guest:It was like, oh my God, she's so disgusted by men.
Guest:Now she's gay.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:But then, of course, yeah, I mean, it was revolutionary in the sense that you even talked about it with humor, and it wasn't a heavy thing.
Guest:But we never looked at it like, this is going to change the face of civilization.
Guest:But that's why Roseanne's so great, because she just did things that were organic and real.
Guest:They were real.
Guest:They hit a real note.
Right.
Marc:So at what point did your career sort of shift?
Marc:Because you also became sort of pivotal in some sexual politics with Madonna.
Marc:I mean, when did you start becoming this sort of spokesperson or icon?
Guest:For the gay thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, that kind of just happened naturally, too.
Guest:I mean, from the time, I think just from the time I started performing, you know, I hung out with a lot of gay guys, and it was just like, you know, it all just sort of, you know, gay men are attracted to big personalities.
Marc:Yeah, what is that?
Marc:Can you explain that?
Marc:Because I know it happens, like with Kathy and with Margaret, and there are certain people that gay men, Lisa Lampanelli even.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What defines that?
Guest:Because we're borderline character, you know, character.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, it's like a characterization of a woman.
Marc:Bette Midler.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I mean.
Marc:There's an amplification.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like, it's like we're sort of borderline on the, you know, we could be drag queens.
Guest:I mean, that's.
Marc:Do people do drag you?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've seen a few over the years.
Marc:And how does that make you feel?
Guest:Oh, I'm flattered.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Have you seen any good ones where you're like, oh, my God.
Guest:I think I've seen a couple of good ones.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How do you identify yourself sexually?
Guest:Um, I, well, I mean, I don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I, I just feel like I've always been, you know, um, just myself, just a woman, just sophisticated, you know, kind of transcending, uh, any, any limitations or definitions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I, I, I really am attracted to people who are, um, intelligent, open, funny, um,
Guest:I mean, I happen to have been with my girlfriend for 12 years now, but it's like we don't, she was never with a woman and she's totally, you know, beyond cool and gorgeous and smart.
Guest:And we just like, we roll in a different kind of way.
Guest:I just feel like if people could just get to that point of just being like, yeah, well, this is what's happening right now.
Guest:You know, it's kind of like, it's like people who are in marriages and you're like, yeah, I'm married, but you know, whatever, I could be divorced and, you know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Can we just stop fixating and trying to figure it out and try to nail it to the wall?
Guest:I'm so busy.
Guest:My daughter's almost 13.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:Is she getting bar mitzvah?
Guest:She had a bat mitzvah last summer.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, we did it at a Chabad.
Guest:And I said, they bat mitzvah girls at 12.
Guest:So by 13, you can marry them off to a nice 57-year-old man.
Guest:He's a widower.
Guest:It would be nice for him, some nice company.
Guest:She could cook for him.
Guest:He can relax and study Torah.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:Why at a Chabad?
Guest:Because that's where I go a lot.
Guest:Because I like to hear the Torah reading.
Guest:And then you go to these conservative... Do you understand Hebrew?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I understand.
Guest:I mean, if you listen to the Torah reading enough, I understand that it's completely insane.
Guest:It makes no fucking sense.
Guest:But I like it.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You're comforted by the tradition of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a dichotomy.
Guest:Because now you go to these conservative shuls.
Guest:My niece was just bat mitzvahed last weekend.
Guest:And they're playing the guitar.
Guest:Do-na-do-na-do-na.
Guest:Do-na-do-na-do.
Guest:And you go, oh, stop playing guitar at shul.
Guest:You're nauseating me.
Marc:You had the stained glass windows there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, what has happened?
Marc:There's an organ.
Marc:Some of them have organs.
Guest:Yeah, well, Friday night services, somebody was like this guy.
Guest:It looked like he was a half-cocked lounge piano player.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Was playing for all the Hebrew songs.
Guest:And I was like, they drag it on and on and on.
Guest:I thought it was going to go out of my mind.
Guest:Anyway, so yeah, she was bar mitzvahed last summer.
Marc:At Chabad.
Marc:That's so interesting.
Guest:Yeah, in Manhattan.
Marc:My brother's very Jew-y.
Guest:In Arizona?
Marc:Yeah, but he does this sort of, you know, the new, what do you call it, Jew-boo thing.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:You know, kind of like groovy Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, but he runs a half-kosher house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we all do.
Marc:How did the Chabad deal with the fact that you're not in a traditional relationship?
Guest:They don't ask questions.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:When you write the checks.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:They don't care.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, when money, when they want to support their little, you know, their Chabad outposts.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because they're every 20 blocks in Manhattan, so they got to get their people to write the checks to keep the thing going, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So what the hell do they care?
Marc:And tell me about this new show that you're doing now.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, I have a new album out.
Guest:You know about that, right?
Guest:It came out, what, a couple weeks ago?
Guest:Yeah, it came out like, no, just June 7th.
Guest:What's it called?
Guest:It's called I Love Being Me, Don't You?
Guest:And that was recorded live in San Francisco at the Castro Theater about six months ago.
Guest:So that was like a one-off.
Guest:I was just like in the zone and just improvising and just talking about crazy shit.
Guest:And there's a few pieces that I'm doing in the live show.
Marc:What kind of crazy shit?
Guest:Well, I was just talking about, you know, and I think we were there on some sort of a, it was either Labor Day or, no, Memorial Day or something, and there was like all these, you know, they do this big fighter jet show in San Francisco every year.
Guest:So we did a whole thing about like, you know, don't worry about health care.
Guest:Forget about education, you know.
Guest:As long as we can still bring our, you know, fighter jets into San Francisco.
Guest:I love this country.
Guest:It was sort of just like, you know, kind of a riff on where we're at, you know, politically.
Marc:Are you afraid?
Guest:Politically?
Guest:Well, no, I'm not afraid.
Guest:I mean, I think we've gone beyond.
Guest:I mean, if we made it through eight years of George Bush.
Guest:No, I mean, I'm not afraid of politics.
Guest:I'm afraid of corporations.
Guest:I'm afraid of Monsanto.
Guest:I'm afraid of, you know, the pharmaceutical companies.
Guest:Because, you know, they've got everybody wrapped around their little finger.
Guest:They've got you convinced that if you don't go on, you know,
Guest:the antidepressants that have the side effects of destroying your liver.
Marc:It's like a big experiment.
Marc:I've had people where you know people that have problems.
Marc:They go to a psychiatrist.
Marc:The guy goes, I don't know what these do.
Marc:Why don't you take three of them a day and come back in a week and if you can still speak, maybe we're getting somewhere.
Marc:It's ridiculous.
Guest:I'm a big proponent of alternative medicine homeopathy.
Marc:Yeah, you like the homeopathy?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like osteococosalum?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I like all that stuff.
Guest:You think it works?
Guest:It does work.
Marc:Like what if you had experience with it?
Guest:Well, I mean, I have a wonderful homeopathic doctor in New York, Annie Fox.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the minute, you know, when the sore throat's coming on, she gets you on the Boyron remedies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a discipline because, you know, you gotta call every couple hours and say, now it's this, now it's moved into my sinus.
Guest:So you gotta like follow like a regime.
Marc:And it works?
Guest:It does work.
Marc:Or it doesn't just distract you from the fact that- Well, even if that's what it is, it works.
Marc:Okay, that's true.
Guest:Mind over matter.
Marc:Did you ever have depression or anything?
Guest:I think everybody has depression.
Marc:But I mean, in a way that was paralyzing?
Marc:No.
Marc:No?
Marc:That was never your issue?
Guest:No.
Guest:It's never been my issue.
Guest:I mean, I'm lucky because if I get into a funk, I just go to the gym and work out, or I go for a walk, or I hang out with my kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You never had any like sort of the sort of stereotypical plagues of funny people like anger, depression, neurotic.
Guest:I have all of those things.
Guest:I just simply don't give in to them.
Guest:I mean, I think everybody's just so so so wrapped up in themselves and, you know, not not not unable to, like, you know, participate in the world and the joy.
Guest:That's where the glamour comes in.
Guest:That's where fashion comes in.
Guest:This is when you go and get a little Botox and a little filler.
Guest:This is when you go and get your hair bumped up.
Guest:You go out for a fabulous dinner in Manhattan and you're not depressed anymore.
Marc:Were you always like that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's so weird because I get, you know, I talk to a lot of people in here and I get these ideas about who I think people are.
Marc:And then I'm sitting here and I'm dealing with a well-adjusted, life-embracing Sandra Bernhardt.
Marc:And I'm thinking like, you're going to come in here and be like, what?
Marc:What do you want?
Guest:God, no.
Guest:Ugh.
Marc:How did I make that up?
Guest:Who wants that?
Marc:Nobody wants it, but I'm happy to know.
Guest:But it's so not me.
Guest:It's so not me.
Marc:Do you find that you're misunderstood by some people that are- Yeah, of course, but everybody's misunderstood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everybody's depressed.
Guest:Everybody's misunderstood.
Guest:Everybody feels victimized.
Guest:It's just what you do with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's how you transform it.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Are you singing in the new show?
Guest:I'm definitely singing in the new show.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What are you singing?
Guest:Well, you know, it depends on the market.
Guest:Like I just did a big show in New York at Town Hall.
Guest:I opened with across 110th Street.
Guest:I had special guests on.
Guest:I had Justin Bond came on because I wrote a musical with Justin Bond last summer called Arts and Crafts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That the two of us are going to star in as soon as we get it set up.
Guest:And then Rufus Wainwright sang with me.
Marc:He's got a pretty voice.
Guest:He's got a beautiful voice.
Guest:And then Liza Minnelli sang with me, and we did that song from Chicago Class.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:I've known Liza from King of Comedy Days because she worked with Scorsese, and she was around, and she was like, hey, kid, she loved me, and she was always very encouraging.
Marc:That must be fucking amazing.
Guest:It is.
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Guest:Wow, I'm depressed.
Marc:Yeah, but.
Guest:I remember Liza Minnelli's house rehearsing, you know, looking at all of her Oscars and her mom's Oscars.
Guest:I mean, what's there to be depressed about?
Marc:And did you grow up with Judy Garland and stuff on some level when you were a kid?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, you know.
Marc:You're not much older than me, but I missed a lot of that.
Guest:The reason I'm, and also I'm exposed to it because my grandparents, my mother, you know, there was the old movies on in the afternoon.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:In the old, in the day, you know.
Guest:So they would sit there and go, look it.
Guest:Yeah, we'd watch.
Guest:You know, there's Myrna Loy and there's, you know, Betty Davis and...
Guest:Everybody knew everybody and all the gossip and all the intrigue and the mystery of the old stars.
Guest:So I grew up on that.
Guest:I grew up getting to go see musical theater.
Guest:My brothers listened to jazz and Bob Dylan and rock and roll.
Guest:And my parents listened to classical music.
Guest:And my mom played the piano.
Guest:So I was exposed to everything.
Guest:And she was a painter too.
Guest:And she was an abstract artist, a painter and a sculptor.
Marc:Yeah, that's so great.
Guest:And so she had a whole group of fascinating friends who were her teachers.
Marc:Did you ever make those pilgrimages to New York to go to the museums and that kind of stuff?
Guest:Yes and no.
Guest:I mean, you know, we were surrounded by people who were just, you know, very successful, great artists in their own right.
Guest:So, you know, yeah, when we went to New York, you know, when I was young, we went to the World's Fair, we saw theater, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I grew up with a very eclectic, you know, and then we moved to Arizona, so we saw the country and, you know,
Guest:You know, we were in Arizona.
Guest:We were in the Old West, the beauty of nature.
Marc:So you went to the World's Fair in Flushing?
Guest:Yeah, in 1964.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:My parents went there.
Guest:Yeah, everybody went there.
Guest:The beehive haircuts.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And all the pavilions.
Guest:No one speaks of pavilions anymore.
Guest:And that saddens me.
Marc:And there's that globe sitting out there.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:The Unisphere.
Guest:The Unisphere.
Guest:Tarnished.
Guest:Cumbling.
Marc:So sad.
Guest:It is sad.
Marc:Well, Jesus.
Marc:It's just very exciting.
Guest:It is very exciting.
Guest:And you know, the wonderful thing about this business, because it's funny, I just did an episode of the show called Are We There Yet?
Guest:It's like a black family show on TBS.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Joan Rivers was on my episode, and she played my mother.
Guest:You don't know until the end, so it gets sort of revealed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, when I was hanging out with Joan and I never really met her before.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And she was, you know, you look at me, she's 77 years old and she's still like so in it, you know, and just in it.
Guest:That was inspiring.
Guest:Then I went over to do this episode of Roseanne's reality show in Hawaii.
Guest:They flew me over about a month ago and Phyllis Diller was on the thing with me and Phyllis Diller is going to be 94.
Marc:Have you met her before?
Guest:And I'd never, well, yes, and you know what's embarrassing?
Guest:She remembered meeting me, but I didn't remember meeting her.
Guest:She's almost 94, and she remembered, and I didn't.
Guest:Her mind is, she's so sharp.
Guest:And I was like, you know, that's the great thing about this business.
Guest:It's not about age, you know?
Marc:I just interviewed Jonathan Winters.
Marc:It was unbelievable.
Guest:I love Jonathan.
Guest:See, my brothers listen to Jonathan Winters.
Marc:It was unbelievable.
Marc:I drove up to Santa Barbara.
Marc:He's almost homebound a little bit because he's arthritic, but his brain.
Guest:Yeah, same thing with Phyllis.
Marc:And just sitting there, you're like, oh, my God.
Marc:It's like time travel.
Marc:It's like something transcendent.
Guest:How old is Jonathan Winters?
Marc:85.
Marc:He's a kid.
Marc:He's a kid.
Marc:Yeah, he's a young'un.
Marc:He's still going to go out and do a couple dates, but there's that cadence.
Marc:There's a way that people spoke in that time.
Marc:And there was such a discipline to what being a show person was that it sort of disintegrated a little bit.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And it's pretty spectacular in the sense that when he did a bit, even when he was just sitting there, he could remember bits that he started on radio with.
Marc:And he would just drop into them.
Marc:And there were the voices.
Marc:It was all happening.
Marc:And it was in that cadence that you just don't hear anymore.
Marc:And there's that moment where he's doing a bit.
Marc:And I'm like, oh no, is this going anywhere?
Guest:And I'm getting concerned.
Guest:You're getting nervous because you think Jonathan's going to just go off the rails.
Guest:And then he totally blows your mind.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Brings it back around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm telling you, it's the same with Joan.
Guest:It's the same with Phyllis Diller.
Guest:I mean, these people are, you know, they stay engaged and that's what's great about this business.
Guest:You can stay in it your whole life.
Marc:So there wasn't, you never went through a period of disappointment or anger or like you felt marginalized or anything like that?
Guest:Listen, every day is a challenge.
Guest:I would like to be back in movies in a major way.
Guest:I want my own TV show, whether it's a talk show, a variety show, part of an ensemble.
Guest:Yes, I want all of this stuff and I'm working back toward it.
Guest:Some days are a struggle, some days I'm bummed out.
Guest:You don't always have to depend on the road to make your living.
Marc:It's a little weird, huh?
Guest:It's always on your shoulders.
Guest:You've got to constantly generate new material.
Guest:I'm very hard on myself.
Guest:I always try to give my audience a great show.
Guest:I never phone it in.
Marc:How do you structure your shows?
Marc:Do you improvise?
Guest:I have some set pieces and then I improvise around it because there's always something new and topical that in a month from now I probably wouldn't necessarily want to revisit.
Guest:It wouldn't even make any sense.
Marc:Do you outline and then just riff?
Marc:yeah yeah did you always do that you're not yeah you don't sit you stay away from like just straight up jokes i i've never i've never been a joke teller except for i'm a medium you're as small you're an extra large um no i like to just i riff i riff isn't that weird that you i remember my first joke it's weird and they're always very simple and just sort of like get me through yeah i just get that one laugh exactly yeah and so so you just kind of free form it
Guest:I do, I freeform it.
Guest:But it's always great to have your pieces to fall back on.
Marc:The ones you know work on.
Guest:And then of course it's nice because I can sing, so that kind of takes me into another zone.
Marc:Right, you got a piece and then the piano comes up.
Guest:Yeah, and then I get back in, I go in and out of my zone.
Guest:And then I kind of cover all the bases of things that are creatively satisfying for me as well.
Marc:What kind of TV show would you like to do?
Guest:Well, you know, I've written a bunch of stuff that I've pitched and hasn't been set up.
Guest:You know, of course, I always want to play kind of like the odd girl out in these settings where everybody's kind of like around me, like freaking out.
Guest:And I'm kind of like, hold on a minute.
Guest:Let's make this work.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So it's like that kind of a character.
Guest:It's, you know, kind of like a postmodern Mary Tyler Moore in a certain way.
Guest:You know, fish out of water.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That seems to be the kind of role that would be
Guest:most appropriate for me.
Marc:And you'd like to do a talk show?
Marc:Or a variety show or something?
Guest:More variety show.
Marc:Do you miss a variety show?
Guest:I miss them and I wrote a variety show and I pitched a variety show.
Guest:And you know, nobody wants to do a variety show.
Marc:I don't understand that completely.
Guest:Because they have reality shows and they're cheap to do.
Marc:Right, but I don't know why.
Marc:Do you think variety would be appealing to people?
Guest:If I did it, it would be.
Guest:Because I know how to mix all the different elements.
Marc:And was that Richard Pryor's show that you wrote on early on?
Marc:Was that a variety show?
Guest:No, I didn't write on it.
Guest:I did sketches.
Marc:Oh, yeah, but that was a variety show, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like Sonny and Cher, Tony Orlando and Don.
Guest:No, it was more sketch-oriented.
Guest:But that was like a variety show, though.
Guest:That was more like a variety show, yeah.
Marc:What were some of the other ones?
Marc:There were so many.
Guest:I remember very... Carol Burnett, Sonny Cher, Dinah Shore, Johnny Cash, everybody.
Guest:Dean Martin.
Marc:Dean Martin.
Guest:Jackie Gleason.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Guest:You remember?
Guest:Yeah, vaguely.
Guest:The June Taylor dancers.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Everything was, you know, and then there were the specials, the big specials, Streisand, you know, Streisand's.
Marc:Did you ever meet her?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I met her a couple of times.
Marc:How was that?
Hmm.
Guest:She's cold.
Marc:Really?
Guest:She looks down at you like, hmm.
Marc:Have you had that experience where you've met people that you worshipped?
Guest:Yeah, Streisand.
Marc:That was it, huh?
Guest:That was the main person.
Marc:How about Bette?
Guest:Bette's not super warm either.
Guest:And I've been really nice.
Guest:I mean, I used to write fan letters to Bette when I was really young.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I got your fan letters.
Guest:You love me.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was like, don't flatter yourself, honey.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Fuck you, Bette.
Guest:Go to hell.
Guest:No, I mean, you know, you're sitting here like you're young, you love somebody.
Guest:It's like if somebody came up to me and I was 17 or 18 and I'd hug them, I'd say, thank you, you sweet person.
Guest:And if they turn out in 10 years to be a bigger star than me, what the fuck do I care?
Guest:It's no impact on my success.
Guest:There's always going to be people surpassing you.
Guest:You're on a highway.
Guest:You're driving in 70s.
Guest:Somebody drives past 85.
Guest:Gaga, I love you, Gaga.
Guest:She's zooming into the future.
Guest:I mean, what are you going to do?
Guest:You can't stop the future.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you a Gaga fan?
Guest:I like her.
Guest:I can't quite figure her out yet.
Guest:I'm just like, what?
Marc:What's baffling?
Guest:I think she covers a lot of territory in terms of what her, you know, her motivation is, you know?
Guest:I mean, you know, she's, like, concerned about her audience, and she's, like, doesn't want people to be bullied, and she's been bullied, and she's, you know... She's a talker.
Guest:She's a monster.
Guest:You know, it's like, I don't know what that... What?
Guest:What?
Guest:Gaga!
Guest:Stop!
Guest:Help!
Marc:I was very surprised because...
Marc:I'm fairly detached pop culture wise for some reason.
Marc:I just don't have the time or I'm too old or I'm too busy.
Marc:I don't fucking know.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:It's hard to keep up.
Guest:It is.
Marc:But like I end up sitting there watching her special in Madison Square Garden and I was completely entertained.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And moved.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I'm just surprised because you like initially I was just dismissing her as some sort of costume chick who did this stick.
Marc:But she's very like she engages in a very real way.
Guest:She's a good lady.
Marc:And she talks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And most of all and above all, she can play that piano and she can sing live.
Guest:And that's saying a lot because most people cannot do that.
Marc:She does sing.
Guest:She sings.
Marc:And you know Madonna.
Marc:Do you think like a lot of people are like, you know, she's just doing Madonna.
Marc:I think it's a different shtick, don't you?
Guest:I think she was like me being influenced by Lily Tomlin and Bette Medler.
Guest:I'm sure she was influenced by Madonna.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:That was the business model on some level.
Guest:Yeah, it was the business model.
Guest:But I think she has her own thing.
Guest:and she is you know she's it's the next generation it's always the next generation it's the post post post modern of the person who influenced you yeah there's no way and that doesn't take anything away from the person who was your model it just it's a new model do you ever watch comedy um are you aware of any of it
Guest:You know, I like Lisa Lampanelli.
Guest:I think she's funny because she's so out there.
Guest:I mean, she takes it so.
Marc:I'll tell you something.
Marc:I knew her when she was teaching comedy.
Marc:Like she used to be this angry comedy teacher at Stand Up New New York.
Marc:She did stand up, but she was teaching classes.
Marc:And then all of a sudden she became this thing.
Marc:And I went to see her do a live show and I had never seen her do her thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I had not been, it had been a long time.
Marc:When I was a doorman at the comedy store, it was during Kenison's reign.
Marc:And, you know, whatever you thought of that guy, when you were in the room and he was performing, there was some sort of weird kind of almost wrong electricity in the end.
Yeah.
Marc:And when she was on stage, it was primarily gay men, and it was just her balls to the wall with her get-up doing her shtick.
Marc:It was menacing, man.
Marc:Like, there was something going on there.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:There was no moral barometer.
Marc:There was no nothing.
Guest:Yeah, she takes it all the way out there.
Guest:I like all the girls, you know, the Kristen Wiggs and the Amy Poehlers and Maya Rudolph.
Marc:Have you seen Maria Bamford?
Marc:You ever seen her?
Marc:No.
Marc:You should check her out.
Marc:She's a trip.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:But I'm just talking...
Marc:Are you friends still with, because it's interesting, I knew a certain version of Paul Mooney when I was a doorman, and you knew a much younger version of Paul Mooney, and now he's sort of reinvented himself in a way without changing himself at all.
Marc:But because of Chappelle, he's got this whole new legion of people.
Marc:But do you keep in contact with him?
Marc:Because I think that he's a mysterious character.
Guest:Well, he is.
Guest:And, you know, he called me on Mother's Day, and I try to call him back, and I don't think the number I have for him works anymore, and I'm a little concerned.
Guest:So if anybody out there has Mooney's new number, please call me.
Guest:He doesn't have email.
Guest:I can't text him.
Guest:I don't know where the hell Mooney is.
Guest:I mean, I'm just going to have to, like, I'm going to look on Caroline's website.
Guest:The next time he's at Caroline's, I just have to go and find him.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Can you keep in touch with him occasionally, though?
Guest:Yeah, no, no, no, we're very close.
Guest:I mean, if I saw him tomorrow, we'd just pick up where we left off.
Guest:He's always been there for me throughout my life.
Guest:He's like my family.
Marc:Yeah, he's a deep dude.
Guest:Yeah, and then he just disappears, though.
Guest:He does the disappearing act.
Marc:And he's got all these kids, too.
Marc:I remember he had these kids, the Mooney twins.
Guest:Yeah, Paul's got six kids.
Guest:One was actually murdered by a friend of his a few years ago.
Guest:It was super heavy.
Guest:His youngest.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:I'll never forget when I came home and my girlfriend said, honey, Mooney's youngest son was shot and killed.
Guest:I said, I called Mooney.
Guest:I was hysterical.
Marc:But like a real little kid, right?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:He was already in his 20s.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:and some friend of his, they were sitting in the car arguing and the friend shot him.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Horrible, horrible.
Guest:So I don't know how Mooney got through that, but Mooney just pushes through shit, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Anyway, I didn't mean to get heavy in that direction, but yes, the point is I love Mooney and it doesn't matter if I don't talk to him for a few months, but we are always connected.
Marc:And what about, do you have any relationship with Letterman?
Guest:No.
Marc:Because he used to have you on the show a lot.
Guest:I was on the show 30 times.
Okay.
Marc:But he doesn't, you know, I don't get the sense he has a relationship with many people.
Guest:No, he doesn't.
Guest:But I'm sad.
Guest:And that's funny.
Guest:I'm always dreaming about Letterman.
Guest:Constantly.
Marc:Real dreams?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like a dream.
Guest:Like, you know, like I'm trying to like get him to like love me and have me back on the show.
Guest:It's just so, it's horrible.
Marc:Have you tried to get back on the show?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you just don't know?
Guest:No.
Guest:He's just got a, he's got a bug in his ass about me and will not have me back on.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What about Jay?
Yeah.
Guest:Jay hasn't had me on in a long time, but I think part of that was because when I was on with Howard, Howard talked about we had a thing when I was 20.
Guest:I had sex with Jay Leno when I was really young.
Guest:He wasn't with anybody, but Jay called me that day.
Guest:He was all freaked out.
Guest:He goes, you know I've been with Mavis.
Guest:I said, Jay, it's humor, it's comedy.
Guest:But he hasn't had me on again either.
Guest:But, of course, tomorrow if I'm in a hit TV series or I'm in a movie that brings $150 million, the publicist will call and I'll be back on these shows.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are you doing out here now?
Marc:Did you fly out for my show?
Guest:I flew out for your show.
Marc:That's very nice.
Marc:No one has ever done that before.
Guest:No, I'm having some meetings and getting around town.
Guest:And then I'm going to San Francisco to do a bunch of shows up there on June 24th and 5th.
Marc:The current show?
Guest:The current show.
Guest:What's it called?
Guest:I Love Being Me, Don't You.
Guest:And I'm promoting my album and will be probably for six or seven months to a year because it's a comedy album.
Guest:It's not like music.
Guest:I'm not trying to get my hit song on the radio.
Marc:Yeah, and we'll promote it here.
Marc:And I'm so happy you came by.
Marc:I hope you are happy.
Guest:I'm very, I've been really excited about this.
Guest:Did it go the way you wanted?
Guest:Yeah, well, I just got direct.
Guest:I mean, my person sent me this link and it was like, your house showed up, like your Google map house on the street.
Guest:And I called him, I said, are you serious?
Guest:Do you expect me to, because I know LA very well.
Guest:I know because I go Glendale Freeway the other way to my brother's house.
Guest:But this direction, and then you've got to cross over, and then these 40th streets, and these streets.
Guest:I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:I blew up.
Guest:See, this is what I wanted to see.
Guest:This is where I get cunty.
Guest:When somebody sends me directions that are fucking preposterous, I'm like, okay, should I just go out and get lost and show up at Marc Maron's at 3 o'clock in the afternoon after I've been sweating and freaking out, and I get there, and I'm a cunt to Marc Maron?
Guest:Is that how it's going to work?
Guest:Fine, fine.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:And then he calls back and goes, I'll take you.
Guest:I was like, yeah, no shit you're going to fucking take me, asshole.
Guest:Take me.
Marc:Oh, I'm so glad you gave me that.
Marc:Well, thanks for coming out.
Guest:That was the perfect way to end.
Marc:That's it, folks.
Marc:See that?
Marc:Sandra, not as angry as I thought.
Marc:I don't know why I need anger to connect, but I love talking to her.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:If you need anything WTF-related, you can always go to WTFpod.com.
Marc:And you know, my album is still out, and it sold pretty good.
Marc:If you didn't pick that up, if you get it through the site at WTFpod.com, we'll send you a signed one.
Marc:But pick up the record.
Marc:I'm proud of the record.
Marc:The CD.
Marc:The files.
Marc:This has to be funny.
Marc:For the apps.
Marc:iPod Touch.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, Droid.
Marc:You can get those at the App Store under WTF.
Marc:You can get them through WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:Again, I'll be at Nashville.
Marc:At Zaney's in Nashville.
Marc:This week, September 8th through 10th, I'll be at the Improv in Louisville.
Marc:September 22nd through 25th.
Marc:The Southern, I'm going to, I'm taking, and that's my Southern swing there.
Marc:A lot of good guests coming up.
Marc:A lot of good guests.
Marc:Bumi's not in here today, so we can't have the cute cat closer.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:I'll talk to you later.
you