Episode 206 - Anthony Jeselnik
Marc:are we doing this really wait for it are we doing this wait for it pow what the fuck and it's also what the fuck what's wrong with me it's time for wtf what the fuck with mark maron
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuck in ears?
Marc:What the fuck, Knicks?
Marc:What the fuck, Ohioans?
Marc:Thank you for having me in Cleveland.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:I am back from Cleveland.
Marc:I made it back.
Marc:The plane landed properly.
Marc:Everything worked out okay on the way back.
Marc:God knows if it hadn't, that would have meant it was about me specifically, and I don't need to focus on that kind of shit.
Marc:Plane was smooth.
Marc:Pretty smooth on the way back.
Marc:Had a great time in Ohio.
Marc:Again, hilarities, great club, great sound system, good people.
Marc:People in Cleveland really want to laugh.
Marc:And I felt that every audience and we had a great show and I appreciate it.
Marc:Did I mention the genius chefs that I came in contact with in Cleveland at both at Lola, Michael Simon's restaurant and at the greenhouse, Jonathan Sawyer's place.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I ate good.
Marc:And the Parma pierogies that a fan brought.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:Mountains of dough and food and pot de creme.
Marc:And it was fucking nuts.
Marc:Great food.
Marc:Enough said.
Marc:Before I forget, I really want to thank Matt over at Black Ocean Cabinets.
Marc:This dude made me a guitar cabinet, a speaker cabinet for my amp.
Marc:that I can plug in for my guitar.
Marc:It is the WTF Special Edition Cabinet.
Marc:Beautiful wood, beautiful finish.
Marc:On the front, there's a wooden plaque with the three cats on it, and it's just fucking stunning.
Marc:Above and beyond.
Marc:I mean, I just couldn't believe it.
Marc:What a sweet gift, and it just looks fucking great.
Marc:If you want to see it, you can go to blackoceancabinets.com.
Marc:Beautiful.
Marc:An amazing gift, and I really appreciate it.
Marc:I can't wait to fucking jam through it.
Marc:Let's plug a couple of things before I get too far involved in what I want to talk about, because I went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I wanted to talk about it because I had a great time and I judged it before I went.
Marc:By the way, on the show today, Anthony Jezelnik, the very smooth, very charming, very shocking, brilliant joke writer is going to talk at length.
Marc:uh which is exciting for me because i've never had he's a he's a joke guy so now we're going to talk so you're going to hear me talk to him about what he does anthony jeslin coming up in a second my own shows i will be in nashville uh nashville zanies eighth ninth and tenth of september looking forward to that have not been to nashville am looking forward to going to uh there's a lot of music down there i got some friends down there i got a track down see if i can find my buddy uh charlie iselle or hunt sales
Marc:And then later in the month, in September 22nd through 25th, I'll be at the Improv in Louisville.
Marc:Louisville.
Marc:Did I say it right?
Marc:Louisville.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Are we good?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Back to Cleveland.
Marc:Back to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Marc:Man, I hope I didn't have a stroke today.
Marc:Fucking gym, man.
Marc:Something went down.
Marc:You know, it makes me a little nervous.
Marc:I'll tell you about it in a minute.
Marc:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Marc:I didn't know what to expect.
Marc:I thought maybe a glorified hard rock cafe because we're that spoiled.
Marc:We're that jaded.
Marc:We've become that kind of culture where you're like, can I just see?
Marc:I saw the lyrics of the song Imagine handwritten in John Lennon's
Marc:Pen, you know, hanging in a frame at the Hard Rock Cafe in Boston, Massachusetts, when it first opened over at Booth, where there were a bunch of frat guys eating wings or something.
Marc:Imagine there's no heaven.
Marc:Yes, it is easy, given the situation that those original lyrics were in.
Marc:So that's what I assumed I would see is some sort of
Marc:Yeah, kind of just a hard rock thing.
Marc:Well, I've already seen the hard rock.
Marc:Why do I got to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Marc:Because there's a context.
Marc:There is it's a museum.
Marc:And the one thing you're not going to see at a hard rock cafe is Howlin' Wolf's money bag, his money briefcase.
Marc:You're not going to see the slide that Muddy Waters gave to Eric Clapton in 1979.
Marc:You're not going to see these old, beat-up, shitty guitars that Lightning Hopkins played, that Elmore James played.
Marc:I mean, these K guitars, these beat-up, old guitars.
Marc:It was great, especially when you've got a blues-based brain like myself and these guys were heroes to you.
Marc:These were the real deal.
Marc:These are magical instruments.
Marc:All of these things are talismans.
Marc:They were such a weird...
Marc:sort of focus in music on the instruments, on the sound, on the pedals.
Marc:Everything was just magical to me in that place.
Marc:I mean, right when I walked into the main foyer, they had like a case full of Jerry Garcia's guitars.
Marc:And like I said, I'm not a huge deadhead, but I'd always heard about the inlays on the base of all of Jerry's guitars that the original one with the wolf on it was a sticker when he sent the guitar to get fixed.
Marc:And the guy who built the guitar made an inlay out of it.
Marc:So I was able to see all these inlays.
Marc:It had its significance to me and in my life.
Marc:I got choked up at this place.
Marc:Even in the opening film strip, this mystery train movie where they showed how rock and roll came from the black music and from the country music and from the New Orleans music, from the big band music where the swing came from.
Marc:It was just a beautifully done film presentation.
Marc:I forget, but I'm a fucking music guy.
Marc:And this stuff moved me.
Marc:But it was sort of surprising.
Marc:There was some surprising stuff.
Marc:I had some surprising moments.
Marc:I mean, one thing that wasn't represented, I did not see a lot of rigs or bindles or spoons or vials or bottles or tabs or guns or pills at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Marc:The dark heart of the music was sadly underrepresented.
Marc:But we knew it was there.
Marc:You know, if you know what you're looking at, you know what's there.
Marc:But there was some fairly dark stuff.
Marc:Oddly,
Marc:The stuff that really kind of moved me a lot, they had an Elvis room, of course, and they were running a film of Elvis that was probably shot in the early 70s.
Marc:He was heavy.
Marc:He was not obese.
Marc:He was older.
Marc:He was clearly high.
Marc:And there was some weird moment that I had, you know, you can see Elvis Presley performing.
Marc:You know, online, you can see it anywhere.
Marc:You can see it many times in your life.
Marc:But there was a moment there where I was looking at Elvis and looking at his eyes and watching him perform.
Marc:And I realized the reason he was so saturated in drugs was that there was a point he must have experienced that it was the only way he could free his mind enough to connect with that music, with who he was and what he was supposed to do and what he was expected to do.
Marc:You know, to shake your leg in the same way for your entire career and to continue to feel the music.
Marc:There was just a moment where I connected with why he had to displace his mind so much to sing those songs that he'd sung so many times before.
Marc:And I had empathy for Elvis.
Marc:Not that he needed it.
Marc:They also had his Lincoln there.
Marc:No, it was his caddy.
Marc:It was beautiful.
Marc:They had some pretty odd stuff, pretty morbid stuff.
Marc:I mean, I was sitting there looking at, you know, Otis Redding's plane remnants.
Marc:They had pieces of Otis Redding's crashed plane, the two pieces that had his name on it.
Marc:That kind of gave me a little sadness in the stomach.
Marc:I'm like, is that necessary?
Marc:I mean, they had a lot of stuff there about Otis, but man, you know, they had some of the country music outfits, Hank Williams' jacket.
Marc:They had a lot of interesting shit.
Marc:But for some reason, the thing that really killed me
Marc:That really, you know, it was some sort of message directly to my soul.
Marc:There was this one part of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame where they had the Rolling Stones and the Beatles in the same room.
Marc:And there was one wall of the Stones.
Marc:There was a few outfits of Mick's.
Marc:maybe a few things here and there.
Marc:It was not a big exhibit, but they had a video running of the Stones in concert performing.
Marc:It was maybe a 10-minute video.
Marc:It looked like it was from the mid-'70s.
Marc:It ended with Jumpin' Jack Flash, and it was pretty limited.
Marc:But then on the other side, they had the Beatles wall of the whole history of the Beatles, the jackets, John Lennon's glasses, the Sgt.
Marc:Pepper outfits.
Marc:And then on a separate wall, they had a video monitor, and around the monitor was every Beatles album.
Marc:And on the video monitor was a documentary that was broken up into pieces representing each album.
Marc:So an album would light up on the wall and then you'd hear George Martin and the Beatles talking about the recording of that album from the very first album all the way through Let It Be.
Marc:and abbey road and i stood there just spellbound for about 45 minutes and and there was a group huddled around this at all times that i was at that museum it was the only place where there was at least 30 people sitting on the floor surrounding this monitor and i was watching just you know it was completely compelling to me to see these guys who who are these mythic
Marc:You know, beings, you know, as young guys, they were just kids.
Marc:They were like under 30 by the time they broke up.
Marc:It's fucking mind blowing.
Marc:And there were different points in their careers, different songs.
Marc:And I felt myself tearing up and stuff.
Marc:And I sat there for 45 minutes to go through, you know, all of these Beatles albums, 45 minutes.
Marc:And then every nine minutes or so, I would hear Jumpin' Jack Flash re-loop.
Marc:Like the Stones were behind me and it was just such an amazing, as much as I love Keith and I love the Stones, I know who they are.
Marc:They knew who they are.
Marc:They're the greatest rock band that ever lived, but that's what they are.
Marc:They're a rock band.
Marc:Then across the way, I spent almost an hour going through every Beatles album because they far transcended anything that anyone can understand.
Marc:I mean, the fucking Beatles songs, they're almost like Christmas carols.
Marc:I mean, you know all of them.
Marc:How is that even possible?
Marc:Transcendent genius.
Marc:It was just moving.
Marc:I really got into it.
Marc:Another thing that kind of freaked me out, that Malcolm McLaren's telex or a telegram to Sid Vicious's mother, basically asking, you know, what do you want us to do with this body?
Marc:And apparently Sid's mom said, I don't care what you do with it, but you're not bringing it here.
Marc:But it was just a, it's a weird, morbid, it was sort of cold, kind of expected that from Malcolm McLaren.
Marc:And I was also very moved by the costumes.
Marc:I forgot what an insane Bowie fan I was.
Marc:I mean, I was actually like, wow, look, that's a Ziggy Stardust tour outfit designed by some Japanese guy.
Marc:So, I don't know.
Marc:But I was also equally impressed with the ZZ Top Harry drums.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:They're just some guys I like and some guys I don't.
Marc:I...
Marc:It was great.
Marc:I didn't make it up to the Women of Rock exhibit.
Marc:I was exhausted by the time I got to the top floor.
Marc:I saw some of the photographs.
Marc:But all in all, great time.
Marc:Great time in Cleveland.
Marc:And I was completely entranced by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Marc:I do think I need a money briefcase.
Marc:I mean, if Howlin' Wolf had a money briefcase, I need a money briefcase.
Marc:I'm going to start demanding to be paid in cash, and I'm going to keep that briefcase with me wherever I go, on stage, all the time.
Marc:Anyways, let's talk about what happened at the gym today, if I could for a minute, because I don't know what the fuck happened.
Marc:I don't know if it's a sign of age or if it's a sign that I'm going down or what.
Marc:I haven't been working out as much as I should.
Marc:Uh, and I went in or I ran a few miles today and I was stretching on this stretch thing on the little machine thing.
Marc:And I like to stretch out by, you know, I, I touch my toes for a while and then I reach up and I hang from my hands and I bend backwards.
Marc:So I get a back bend and I push up and I'm just basically hanging with all my weight.
Marc:uh from a bar and i always get a head rush when i do that but this time i felt the head rush come on and it's usually sort of like all right this is a free buzz but i'm in the head rush i'm listening to lenny kravitz let love rule you know while i'm stretching and i'm doing that and the next thing i know i'm on the ground i'm coming to
Marc:I I'd fallen down.
Marc:I was leaning up against the machine and my arm was sort of shaking.
Marc:And I said, like, as I came to him, like, what's going on?
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Then I heard Lenny Kravitz.
Marc:Where what happened?
Marc:And and I was in a full gym, folks.
Marc:And I went down.
Marc:There was no doubt I blacked out.
Marc:I don't know for how long nobody saw it.
Marc:Nobody saw it.
Marc:It must not have been that long, but that is some scary shit, man.
Marc:I just had a brain glitch.
Marc:So again, happy to be alive between the flight into Cleveland and just a workout today.
Marc:I just hope it was because I, you know, I just gave myself a head rush.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Not concerned.
Marc:No closure on this one.
Marc:I'm okay.
Marc:We did it.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:We won?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Let's talk to Anthony Jezelnik.
Marc:Anthony Jezelnik.
Marc:Is that how you pronounce it?
Guest:Jezelnik, yeah.
Marc:Jezelnik?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What did I say?
Marc:Jezelnik?
Guest:Jezelnik, yeah.
Guest:People will hit the Z on it a little bit, which is fine.
Guest:Do you get Jezelnik ever?
Guest:Oh, all the time.
Guest:Jezelnik was the big one.
Marc:Jezelnik?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you've managed to put the kibosh on that?
Marc:Have you reached out?
Marc:Have you tweeted?
Guest:It's hard to tweet a pronunciation of your name.
Marc:Can you just do it with the caps and then put the emphasis on it?
Guest:I say, like, Russell, Jessel, and then Nick, and people will totally forget it as soon as I say it to them.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I get Moran, Moran, Marin.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:I mean, it's spelled just like it says.
Marc:I mean, fuck you.
Guest:Yeah, I feel people should do the research.
Marc:No one does research for anything anymore.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I mean, if they're writing an article on you, they'll call you for research.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I mean, it's fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, dude, why are you here?
Guest:In Los Angeles?
Marc:Or here with you?
Marc:I know why you're here with me.
Guest:I'm here in L.A.
Guest:to take a bunch of meetings, do a couple shows.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How are you going to be here for?
Guest:I'm here until the 15th, and then I think I'm moving back here, I think maybe in November.
Marc:Well, that's right.
Marc:Did you start here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was here for like seven years, did stand-up for six, and then moved over to New York.
Guest:When you got the writing job on Fallon?
Guest:I actually left right before the job on Fallon.
Guest:I moved there for a girl.
Guest:To New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For the same girl?
Guest:It was a girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if you ever met her, Catherine.
Guest:She was like a girl from college.
Marc:Oh, no, no.
Marc:I thought with Schumer.
Marc:You back with Schumer?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Schumer and I are back on.
Marc:You are?
Guest:Back and better than ever.
Guest:Seriously?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:oh that's good because when she was here I had to edit shit because you guys had broke up the next day yeah we broke up on Valentine's Day we have these like major fights every once in a while and we get back together and we're better than we've ever been things are great for a while and then we get in a fight again but I think I think we're doing pretty well I think we're doing good yeah what are those fights about Anthony
Guest:usually i'm a fighter it's i usually think we fight because she's crazy all right it's more that like i'll kind of tune out a little bit sometimes in a relationship you know i'm like a great boyfriend in the beginning yeah i'm like number one yeah and then i start to kind of lose steam a little bit and then i get sidetracked by other things i've got going on right like i was like really into like other pussy
Guest:I'm pretty good with that these days, but I'll just get excited about writing something, and I'll kind of tune out for a little bit.
Marc:Oh, you take them for granted.
Marc:They get the sort of what about me shit?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But I fight, and I mean, has fighting been a pattern with you in other relationships?
Marc:Because I fucking...
Guest:No, not at all, actually.
Guest:I normally would never fight, and that's why we would break up.
Guest:Things would be great, and all of a sudden, we wouldn't know how to deal with it.
Guest:It's exhausting and weird, right?
Guest:Yeah, it's really exhausting, but if we have a big blow-up, we'll kind of fix things after that.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And do you track down the reason?
Marc:She seems pretty psychologically astute.
Guest:Extremely.
Guest:To her fault, as far as I'm concerned.
Guest:It's tough.
Guest:She'll be like, this is what you are.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Now deal with it in some way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I've diagnosed you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm fine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, okay, I've got this thing.
Marc:This is some kind of mental disease, but, uh, I kind of work with it.
Marc:So, so, all right.
Marc:So now where the fuck did you come from?
Marc:I mean, if I can, I don't mean to be aggressive, but I mean, I was a pretty aggressive way to say that, but I don't, with that name and everything.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:That's like one of them, uh, it's a Chicago style name.
Guest:It's a, it's Slovenian.
Guest:I found out recently.
Guest:We, I used to think it was German or Austrian or something, but, uh, there's like, if you Google Jesselnik, I'm like all that comes up.
Guest:So people all around the world who have the same last name would like email me for a while.
Guest:And some woman in Florida who had married into the family went on Ancestry.com and sent me a bunch of stuff.
Marc:And she found it?
Guest:Yeah, she found it.
Marc:Slovenian?
Guest:Slovenian, yeah, some little village over there.
Marc:But you never knew that?
Guest:No, I had no idea.
Marc:What, didn't your parents talk to you?
Guest:I would ask and they would be like, oh, German, we think, or that Austrian in that area.
Guest:They didn't really seem interested.
Guest:And when I even told them, hey, this is interesting.
Guest:We're from Slovenia.
Guest:They did not care at all.
Guest:There was no, oh, wow, let's see a birth certificate.
Guest:They just didn't care.
Marc:Do you have a lot of siblings?
Marc:Yeah, I'm the oldest of five.
Marc:Oh, so they don't care about anything.
Marc:No, they don't give a damn.
Marc:How did the other ones turn out?
Marc:All right.
Guest:They're good.
Guest:They're good.
Guest:We've got a lawyer in the family.
Guest:We've got a private jet stewardess in the family.
Guest:My little brother just got out of college a few years ago.
Marc:Private jet stewardess, is that code for...
Guest:Prostitute?
Guest:No, she's literally a flight attendant on a private jet in Pittsburgh.
Marc:In Pittsburgh?
Guest:Yeah, that's where the family's from.
Marc:But Pittsburgh has some industry there.
Marc:There's that good college and there's a couple of big business.
Marc:Pittsburgh's okay.
Guest:it's it's you know it's gonna kind of getting back it together but like my dad works for us steel and they're like struggling they're getting they're getting it back together but they you know they've had some tough some isn't there some tech shit there too i can't remember what's the big business in pittsburgh i was just there and i was surprised carnegie melon or carnegie i don't know what the fuck i'm thinking what school is there carnegie melons there pit is there right you know they have the duquesne they got a lot of colleges there right it's a big drinking town it's a lot of a lot of bars a lot of partying
Marc:I was surprised because in my mind, Pennsylvania is this gray, horrible, large state with a lot of kind of rural sorts and a lot of highway with signs for some place called Anderson's.
Marc:Am I making that up?
Marc:Anderson's Pea Soup?
Marc:Am I making that up?
Marc:I know there's Eaton Park is all around there.
Marc:Eden Park, and there's Amish country.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now I'm going to fucking Google Anderson's Pea Soup.
Marc:So did you go to college?
Guest:Yeah, I went to college in New Orleans.
Guest:I grew up in Pittsburgh my whole life, and then I went to New Orleans to go to Tulane University.
Guest:I had never even been to New Orleans before I went for my first day of school.
Guest:I was just so excited about the idea of New Orleans.
Marc:You went to Tulane?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Anderson's Pea Soup.
Marc:No, it's in Buellton, California.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:You were way off.
Marc:Yeah, I...
Marc:Funnel cake.
Marc:How about funnel cake?
Marc:Are there signs for funnel cake in Pennsylvania?
Marc:I'm sure there's a sign somewhere for funnel cake.
Marc:I don't think it's like a... Ah, fuck, man.
Marc:Isn't funnel cake not a Pennsylvania thing?
Marc:It's not a Pennsylvania Dutch thing?
Guest:I think it's a carnival thing.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:It had to come from somewhere.
Marc:I'm sure.
Guest:I don't think it originated in the great state of Pennsylvania.
Marc:So you went to Tulane?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For all four years?
Guest:All four years, yeah.
Guest:And majored in what?
Guest:English major, English lit major.
Guest:That's what I did.
Guest:Business minor, yeah.
Marc:Business minor I didn't do.
Guest:My parents made me.
Guest:They were like, when you can't get a job with your English major after college, you'll be able to get one with your business minor.
Marc:What was the plan?
Guest:I wanted to be a novelist when I got to college.
Guest:I wanted to be like a serious writer.
Guest:Who are your guys?
Guest:I loved Brett Easton Ellis.
Guest:Brett Easton Ellis was my absolute favorite.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I loved him.
Marc:I'd like to get him on the show.
Guest:Oh my God, that'd be awesome.
Marc:You like all his books?
Guest:uh yeah i mean i you know i have favorites but i i read everything the day it comes out like i go i'm a big fan do you have any uh did you any traditional guys or just you weren't the modern i liked hemingway a lot you know i liked more modern you know i kind of liked i like things i could kind of put myself into and it sounds like like the cock rock of literature hemingway yeah ready sinelis yeah killing boy shit yeah very much very much and did you write a novel
Guest:No, I wrote a novella one year in college, just like a short novel, basically.
Guest:But my teacher hated the fact that I was a Bretton Ellis fan.
Guest:He was like, this guy's the worst writer.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because of American Psycho?
Guest:I think it was a very simplistic style that people would try to imitate because it seemed easy.
Marc:Well, so was Hemingway.
Marc:Who the fuck is he to-
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But Hemingway kind of put it together, you know, in a better way that it looks easy if you just look at it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Try to write, you know, real characters in a real story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It just it all kind of blends together.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's kind of like the point of the writing.
Guest:But but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't very good.
Marc:So you fought with your teacher over Brady Sonella.
Marc:So he resented you because he thought you were shallow.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:He's like, this isn't good writing.
Guest:I don't I'm not clear of what's going on here.
Marc:Now, you're sort of a dick sometimes.
Guest:Did you come down on them?
Guest:No.
Guest:I was just very like, oh, okay.
Guest:What can I do?
Guest:I was just furiously writing like crazy.
Guest:And I became a better writer because of it.
Guest:And that class really helped me with criticism.
Guest:Because in class, you would read your story.
Guest:And then the whole class would go around and criticize you.
Guest:But you couldn't answer them.
Guest:You couldn't say, well, here's what I was trying to do.
Guest:You had to just sit there.
Guest:And you could ignore their advice or take it.
Guest:But you just had to take it.
Guest:So I think that really helped with this comedy that I could just internalize.
Marc:You think so?
Marc:Didn't you walk around quietly resenting the fucking asshole that took you down in class?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit, depending on what they said.
Guest:You would go back and criticize them more than because they'd hit you.
Guest:But in stand-up, when people wouldn't laugh, it would make me so mad.
Guest:And I really used that anger to come back the next night.
Guest:I fueled myself on anger for my first four, maybe seven or eight years of stand-up.
Marc:But, dude, you do a type of comedy that's not going to work sometimes.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:But I wanted to work with certain people all the time.
Guest:And when it wouldn't work with other comics, like an open mic, I would be furious.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I used to fucking throw those guys out of the room.
Marc:Like your generation, you started at a different time than me.
Marc:You guys could start in little rooms where there were just comics hanging around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's a pain in the ass.
Marc:But it actually probably helped you.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Because your type of comedy, which is very well-crafted but slightly wrong jokes, is hard for some people to take.
Marc:But it's exactly the kind of shit that other comics are going to be like, ah, yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:That's what I went for.
Guest:That's what I went for right off the bat.
Guest:I was like, I want comics to like this.
Guest:I wanted a writing job.
Guest:I didn't really think I was going to be a stand-up.
Guest:I thought I'll do this until I get a job, and then I'll quit.
Marc:But you got that other thing going.
Marc:You're like a comedian that's a fairly good looking guy, which is like not supposed to, this is not supposed to be for you.
Marc:You're supposed to be doing something else.
Marc:That's what I hear.
Marc:That's what I hear.
Guest:You hear that often?
Guest:Not so much anymore.
Guest:I feel like it was almost like, I felt like Eminem when I was younger.
Guest:It was like being a white rapper was the hardest thing in the world.
Guest:But once you kind of got to a certain point, it was the biggest thing that you could have going for you.
Guest:But I didn't have any friends when I started doing comedy.
Guest:I think people kind of stayed away from me.
Marc:When you were writing at Fallon, how did that job come about?
Marc:Because we got people that listen to this show that have dreams.
Guest:It was kind of like a right place, right time kind of thing for me.
Guest:I'd always wanted that job, especially a late night show like that, the 1230 slot, especially something that was starting because you could kind of...
Guest:build the voice yourself uh and i had just done like a comedy central special and things had been happening for me and i just moved to new york when they were looking for people and they were looking for sketch people right i thought i don't want to do that i'll just write a ton of jokes you know from today's paper and send that to them and they really responded to that and i was i think the first monologue writer they hired really over there yeah so you don't have a problem writing in other people's voice
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:But I struggled with it at Fallon.
Guest:Before that, I had written for Sarah Silverman a little bit, and she was like, if I loved a joke, she would love it.
Guest:You wrote stand-up for her?
Guest:No, not stand-up, but when she would do monologues for MTV Movie Awards or something.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:That was my first writing thing, was writing for her.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And that was a dream job, because if I loved a joke, she was like, oh, I love it too.
Guest:but on fallon that wasn't the case there were so many other rules you had to kind of abide by like what like it had to be likable he had to make him seem likable and smart you know he couldn't he couldn't be dumb in the joke uh and it had to be kind of like uh he had to have like a certain his like persona into it yeah that if i had a joke i was like this is brilliant yeah it'd be like we really like it but it's just gonna make people hate jimmy so we can't do that and like my whole thing is like like daring the audience to hate me now did you can you remember any of those jokes
Guest:i remember one i remember like one of the first ones i had it was like when that uh when that monkey had torn off that woman's face yeah you know yeah and they put the monkey down yeah but my joke was something like you know the monkey was put down today uh per its final wishes uh it was cremated and his ashes ashes were thrown in a woman's in that woman's face you know and i loved it but it was like there was like no way is he gonna say this joke
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:So he's afraid that he doesn't want to appear to be dumb.
Guest:I don't think it was fear.
Guest:He wasn't afraid of it.
Guest:It was just like when you're a talk show host, especially in the beginning, you have to kind of set yourself up.
Guest:One of the things Lorne Michaels told us when we were there, it was a great piece of advice.
Guest:He said, the longer you're there, the longer you're there.
Guest:You know, in that first couple months, people are going to dump all over you.
Guest:But then all of a sudden you're there for three years and you're like an institution.
Guest:Right.
Guest:People will just watch it because it's on and they're used to it.
Marc:The longer you're there, the longer you're there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, you know, if you make a joke about like a retarded person, you know, they might laugh really hard.
Guest:But afterwards, like, I don't like them.
Guest:yeah you know which he said that he was basically made that point did you what did he used to have little uh he used to have little jam sessions with you guys like one jam session where they're just like any questions and we're just like no one's supposed to talk at all you know you just you just listen to them no one talk yeah no one talk no one raised their hand no no way
Guest:a room full of people it was just two or three it was just the monologue team yeah at the time it was you and who else it was me uh Wayne Fetterman was like the head guy yeah and then this guy Jeremy Bronson yeah and now the head writer head monologue writer over there uh-huh it was great and it was just the two of us and they would be like all right we've got to do like for weeks we were sending in our jokes yeah every day we'd write like you know our best send in our best 10 after writing all day and all the notes coming back where all these are great you guys are doing great it's gonna be awesome and then the show starts up and we send in our jokes and they're like what is this
Guest:And it becomes clear to us that no one was reading those jokes we were sending.
Guest:And they were just like, oh, good, good.
Guest:And then for the first couple, like month or so, we were getting killed.
Guest:It was me and this guy writing like 100 jokes a day, passing him in and just getting destroyed because Jimmy didn't know what his voice was.
Guest:We didn't know what it was.
Guest:They were kind of cornier jokes.
Guest:And now that staff is like eight people to write the monologue.
Guest:And we just had two in the beginning.
Marc:Why do you think they only had two people?
Guest:I think money and just like, let's hit the ground running and see what happens.
Guest:You can always add more.
Guest:I'm sure their budget picked up or something, but it was crazy in the beginning.
Guest:100 jokes a day?
Guest:Yeah, at minimum.
Marc:Now, what's the process?
Marc:Because someone once taught me how to write a monologue joke, and I think if I listen to a monologue joke, you can write a monologue joke, but the guys, people don't realize that dudes who write monologue jokes
Marc:I mean, there's crossover.
Marc:I mean, you've got to sit there.
Marc:Everyone's looking the same shit.
Marc:So between you, Kimmel, Leno, Letterman, Ferguson, I mean, the chances of some similar jokes is almost guaranteed.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:And it's just a way of writing.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:I mean, is there like, do you have an A plus B equals here's the way you write a monologue joke?
Marc:Totally.
Guest:I mean, I did.
Guest:Some people would have different things, but a writer's assistant would give us all the headlines of the day.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, like a man in Wisconsin was hit by a car while he was walking his dogs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Something like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I would literally just take that, and that would be the setup.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then I would just add my second sentence that would be the punchline.
Marc:All right, let's write a monologue joke.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Senate okays extending key Patriot Act provisions.
Marc:Patriot Act provisions.
Marc:Eh, it's not that great, right?
Marc:No.
Marc:How about Google unveils wireless payment system.
Marc:That could probably be a good setup, huh?
Guest:Yeah, they would love that.
Guest:They loved anything tech.
No.
Marc:So what you basically do is Google unveils wireless payment system.
Marc:Well, you know, Google blah, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Or as it's better known, identity theft.
Guest:That would have been mine.
Guest:That would have been my joke.
Guest:And I would have turned it in and taken a nap.
Marc:That worked out pretty good.
Guest:Yeah, I'm great at this.
Marc:Wait, let's do more then, you fuck.
Marc:Mr. Great at it.
Marc:But that's just the way your brain works.
Marc:It's like math.
Guest:Yeah, it would be first thought.
Guest:It was just total instinct because you just had so many to write.
Guest:It was all volume and just putting it out there.
Guest:And I didn't like working like that.
Guest:I'd rather write just a few jokes.
Guest:And Morgan Murphy came on and wrote a monologue for a couple years.
Guest:And when she came over, she would just write 15, 17 jokes a day and send them in, but she would work on them.
Guest:You know, where since I was the first guy there, I always had to come up with like the volume.
Guest:I couldn't just turn in 15, even if they were a great 15.
Guest:I have to turn in 75.
Guest:A day?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Even if they were like terrible, I would just be like, here's 75.
Guest:75 jokes a day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's fucking unreal.
Guest:And you couldn't use them in your act.
Guest:Never.
Guest:I would try to use them sometimes.
Guest:I would try to be like, here's some jokes that got rejected, you know, on Fallon.
Guest:But it seems so ridiculous that my persona would work for Jimmy Fallon, that it just didn't work.
Guest:And I was like, I don't care.
Marc:Now, what about this persona?
Marc:Because, I mean, outside of being incredibly arrogant.
Marc:I'm kidding.
Guest:It's totally arrogant, yeah.
Marc:No, but I mean, I think maybe you're genuinely like that, are you?
Guest:Not really arrogant.
Guest:I have a certain confidence, but I feel like it's earned confidence.
Guest:I feel like I've grown kind of into it.
Guest:But in the beginning, the persona was a very fake confidence.
Guest:It was just like I was kind of nervous, and I hated being new at stand-up.
Guest:I hated that first six months where you just had no idea what you were doing.
Guest:and the crowds kind of smelled it a little bit.
Guest:Did you feel embarrassed that you didn't already know how to do it?
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:I just knew that in the future, I wanted it to be five years later and see where I was.
Marc:Were you like that with everything, though?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I've been one of those guys who I try something since I was a kid.
Guest:If I try something and I'm not good at it, I never try it again.
Guest:But if you try something and you're really good at it, do you stop there?
Guest:No, then I get obsessed with it.
Guest:Then I'm like, oh, I can do this.
Guest:What else has there been?
Guest:One thing that jumps into mind is lacrosse.
Guest:I played lacrosse in high school, and lacrosse wasn't a big sport in Western Pennsylvania back when I was a kid.
Guest:Really, not there?
Guest:Because everywhere else is huge.
Guest:It's gotten bigger now.
Guest:Come on, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought it was a girls' sport.
Guest:No, I mean, I think it was big at girls' schools.
Guest:Maybe I'm thinking field hockey.
Guest:Field hockey is big.
Marc:Did you play field hockey?
Guest:No, I tried.
Guest:I didn't make the team.
Guest:But I just started playing early, like in like fifth grade or something because some friends had sticks.
Guest:So by the time you got to high school and you could play on a team, I was like really good.
Marc:That's where you got to catch it in a little net at the top of the stick and throw it around like that?
Guest:That seems pretty challenging.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's all a lot of hand-eye coordination.
Marc:So you were a lacrosse jock?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I played a lot of sports when I was a kid, but lacrosse became my main sport.
Marc:You played lacrosse in high school?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were like the star of what position?
Guest:I played defense, you know, and I wasn't the star, but I was good.
Guest:I was good at it.
Marc:Now, was there a school pride around lacrosse?
Marc:Because it seems like sort of an odd sport.
Guest:No one.
Guest:My school was a big football school, and everything else was a distant second, and so they hated the lacrosse team.
Guest:We were a club team.
Guest:We had to pay for all our stuff, and they didn't want the football players playing with us because they thought it was just beneath them.
Marc:Did you get shit from the football guys?
Guest:No, it wasn't like that, but no one cared.
Guest:No one cared about lacrosse at all.
Guest:I think it might be better there now at my high school, but at the time... I never fucking...
Marc:I always think about that in myself, that if somebody had taught me some sense of healthy competition, I would be better off in life.
Marc:To me, if I'm losing, I would rather ruin the game than lose.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:I didn't like being on a team sport that much because I didn't care as much.
Guest:If I had a good game and we lost, I was still like, hey, I had a good game.
Guest:I always thought I should have played a solo sport.
Guest:Yeah, like tennis, golf.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:I'm so bad at those two.
Guest:You've played golf?
Guest:I've tried to play golf.
Guest:My brother hits a lot of balls.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I'm not good at it.
Guest:I've got a bad back, so I shy away a little bit.
Marc:All right, so now let's go back to those first days at stand-up.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So you're going up there with your dark jokes?
Guest:No, I took a class before I started.
Guest:No, you didn't.
Guest:Yeah, I took a class.
Guest:With who?
Guest:Greg Dean.
Guest:Where the hell was that, here?
Guest:In Santa Monica, yeah, I was out here.
Marc:A stand-up class.
Guest:Someone had told me to do stand-up to get into joke writing, and I was afraid of it.
Guest:I looked down on comedy, kind of, and were the people that I really loved in comedy, but they just seemed brilliant that I couldn't do that.
Marc:But had you written poetry or anything like that?
Guest:Not a lot of poetry, mostly short stories.
Guest:But you're a word guy, right?
Guest:Yeah, but poetry never did it for me.
Marc:No, but I mean, so why did you assume that you couldn't be as good as somebody else?
Marc:Because stand-up just seemed like one of those things that just seemed impossible.
Guest:It was more of a persona thing for you that you were worried about?
Guest:Because, I mean, jokes are jokes, right?
Guest:No, I just thought I'm a funny person.
Guest:I need to find out how to go up there and be funny.
Guest:I knew there was a way to be...
Guest:hilarious yeah you know with only with only a few words if you really you know knew what you were doing who were your guys uh steven wright was big time for me really uh yeah steven wright was i remember just as a kid seeing him was like how did he do that you know right brilliant uh mitch hedberg later on yeah i got into um so joke guys joke guys for sure i was never a big bill cosby guy i was never a big carlin guy like i liked them but i was never like oh that's what comedy is
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:Do you think there's some that they're doing it easier in some way?
Marc:Like, cause you know, I'm more of a talkie guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just like all jokes.
Guest:I think it's different problems.
Guest:You know, I think, you know, with, with me, like, you know, I gotta, I hit every 30 seconds, you know, with a joke, but even every, is that something you make sure you do?
Guest:I mean, in your mind?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's just, I just wanted to tell short jokes and I wanted to keep the fewest words possible and show that I can write really well, you know?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I didn't want to ramble or waste anyone's time.
Guest:You know, I thought like I went to Europe and people were like, oh, that motorcycle joke you have is so funny.
Guest:You could really stretch that out and make it like a 10 minute bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, why the fuck would I do that?
Guest:When I've got this perfect like 30 second joke that's like, you can't change anything about it.
Guest:So the motorcycle joke is big in Europe?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which joke is that?
Guest:It's when I finished high school, I wanted to take all my graduation money and buy myself a motorcycle.
Guest:My mom said no.
Guest:See, she had a brother who died in a horrible motorcycle accident when he was 18.
Guest:and I could just have his motorcycle.
Guest:That's always a crowd-pleaser.
Guest:So that's huge in Europe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the one they all singled out.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When did you go to Europe?
Guest:This past summer, I went to Ireland for a week and did that festival.
Marc:The Kilkenny Festival?
Guest:Not Kilkenny.
Guest:It was the same festival, but in Dublin.
Marc:Oh, that must have been better.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:It was, because I went to Kilkenny, and I did not have a good time.
Marc:Really?
Marc:But see, that's the thing about Joke Guys, is that you're...
Marc:Protected.
Marc:I mean, there's something about, like, I got nothing against joke guys, but if that's all you do, your emotional risk is limited.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And that, you know, you're not revealing that much about yourself because you've constructed this persona and you seem very aware of it.
Marc:And that jokes, I think, for the most part, because they're almost like math problems, they're translatable.
Marc:I mean, it's really about a turn of phrase.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I feel like you can kind of get into, even if you're not laughing, people will still be entertained watching you.
Guest:They're getting to know you, and there's an inherent value in that, whereas there is no getting to know me on stage.
Guest:So if they don't really like the jokes or they don't really get into it right away, it's a tough slog through 45 minutes.
Guest:That's when you start throwing the crowd work on them.
Guest:So I can't really fuck around.
Guest:Do you do crowd work?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, I've seen you do crowd work, actually.
Marc:Yeah, I've seen you do that, where two or three jokes didn't go the way you wanted to, and bang, you're in it.
Marc:I try to do crowd work more when jokes are going really well.
Marc:We did that crowd work in Austin, where you did that crowd work with the woman who had a problem with Retarded or something.
Marc:What was that about?
Marc:about yeah well it was I was in the crowd like literally like in the aisles talking to people like finding people which is as a as a comic waiting to go on once somebody not only does crowd work that's killing but decides like hey now it's time to take some chances and go out among the people where you're sitting there going ah great all right now I gotta rebuild this fucking mess yeah I remember I like I killed that that you went on after me and you were like I'm not gonna sit up here and just do a bunch of crowd work and then like looked over to me from the side of the stage and then proceeded to do a bunch of crowd work
Marc:No, that's just my insecurity, but I think I did all right.
Marc:My recollection.
Guest:I like crowd work because it's like jokes just for that audience that people, I think, seem to really appreciate.
Marc:I love crowd work, but I tend to think of it more as a conversation.
Marc:If something happens, for me...
Marc:If an audience feels comfortable enough or I feel comfortable enough to start kind of moving through stuff that I didn't know would happen, it's the only time where you really... Like, I'm more happy when I got off stage if something happened that I did not anticipate at all than if a joke works.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Marc:But you don't write like that, though.
Marc:Do you ever do crowd work and all of a sudden you're like, oh, fuck, I'm going to add that.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Sometimes I'll tag a joke just off the top of my head, and it'll really work.
Guest:Or I'll say something just really arrogant that'll work.
Guest:But when I'm doing crowd work, it's hard to keep that kind of stuff.
Marc:So how the fuck did you manage to persevere with your sort of drive for success to kind of tank as much as you must have in order to make this character work?
Marc:Because, I mean, I used to work with Hedberg, too, and it was hit or miss with him.
Marc:I mean, that was a long 45 minutes.
Marc:I mean, before he got fucked up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it was just that that was...
Marc:See, I've always had a respect for this, but I know that I could never do it, is that if I'm tanking, in the old days, I would get angry at them and then really fuck things up.
Marc:But then I became more diplomatic and tried to meet them halfway.
Marc:And now I've become sort of like, look...
Marc:I'm not going to change much.
Marc:So either you're going to meet me halfway here or we're just not going to get along.
Marc:And I find that if people don't like me, they really don't like me.
Marc:Whereas if people don't like you, you still walk away and you don't feel like you've invested a lot.
Guest:But I think if people don't like me, they're like offended.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That I would try to make them laugh in that way.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:If they don't like it, they really get mad.
Marc:But you're conscious of that.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't mind it.
Guest:And now that I'm headlining, I feel like a responsibility to the audience that I used to not feel.
Marc:Right.
Guest:When I first started opening on the road, I would have these miserable shows.
Guest:I would be opening for Doug Benson.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I would just be bombing my face off, like walking people before he came out there.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was always very cool.
Guest:He was like, you know, we're going to have a fun time after the show.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:And like kind of got my legs doing that.
Guest:And then I would go with Posehn, Brian Posehn, who was really nice to me.
Guest:And his kind of crowd was more like my crowd.
Guest:Like I would do very well in front of him.
Guest:Even if I didn't.
Guest:Angry nerds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And where Doug is just stone nerds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, people were people who saw him on VH1 and were just coming out and they don't want to hear my dead baby shit.
Guest:You know, not at all.
Marc:You really like you would walk people after a series of jokes.
Marc:Was there one joke in particular that would be a guarantee walker?
Guest:Yeah, I would get into religion or the dead baby joke at the end, which I thought was my best joke when I'd be in LA.
Guest:This will save me when I have this at the end.
Guest:What was that one?
Guest:It was, you don't know anything about pain until you've seen your own baby drowned in a tub.
Guest:And you definitely don't know anything about how to wash a baby.
Guest:And then we'd get stone silence.
Guest:People coming up to me afterwards being like, I've lost a baby.
Guest:Don't tell that joke.
Guest:Like shit like that.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That I would just be like, is this what the road is like?
Guest:Is this what happens?
Guest:And then I'd just- That's so funny.
Marc:You never thought once maybe I shouldn't tell that joke?
Guest:Never, never.
Guest:I'm always like, this is going to be great.
Guest:And then it would just be like audible gasps from the crowd.
Guest:When you're already bombing, that's a tough one.
Marc:So when you're up there bombing, what are you thinking?
Marc:I mean, I know that you have this character and you have these jokes and you know what they are, but-
Guest:uh are you thinking like fuck them or are you thinking like oh god now i got another 10 minutes of this the latter i'm thinking like oh how much time i've left let me get the fuck out of here this is over but you don't try to do crowd work when you're bombing because no i mean i don't really bomb when i'm headlining you know i'll have like slower shows you know aren't like the energy's not as great but i don't really bomb anymore uh but you know if it's just not fun i'm annoyed you know it's like getting laughs but i'm not like killing i'm annoyed and i just want it over with but i know the feeling about uh
Marc:there's something about you must be getting off on that thing where where um like there were jokes i used to do that were pretty like i i was not so much shock value but there's that feeling where you know a joke is not it's just it's going to be hard to bend someone's brain into taking it as funny totally but the challenge of that is really compelling
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't mind if someone like I've got a joke, not like a breast cancer joke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That is a really quick one that never gets more than a couple laughs from people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, but I, I love doing it.
Guest:So I literally, I just say like, you know, after I tell the joke, I'm like, you know, that's not a crowd pleaser, but doesn't mean it's not brilliant.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that gets them back on your side right away and you can just go into the next thing.
Guest:Like what's that joke?
Guest:Uh, that joke is that my mom's in a really bad mood right now.
Guest:She just found out she has to have both of her breasts removed if she's ever going to be good at golf.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and people were just like oh oh shit but you know anyone in the crowd whose mom has breast cancer you know which is like fucking half the crowd these days yeah they're not they're not pleased really i mean and and and what do you think is our responsibility to that zero zero responsibility it's on them completely people ask like is there a line there's absolutely no line and if there was a line i would cross it immediately
Guest:Like I'm always looking for, for like there's some topic that's off limits.
Guest:Like I, I sat down and worked on breast cancer for years.
Guest:That joke?
Guest:Not that joke, but just a joke that would get people to laugh at breast cancer.
Guest:And I was like, oh, I just can't say breast cancer.
Guest:You know, if I can do it.
Marc:So you sit down with topics that you know are going to cause trouble.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:In people, not necessarily any sort of legal trouble or anything else, but just trouble.
Marc:Like what's that list?
Guest:Rape was one I tried for a long time.
Guest:I finally have a couple of those.
Guest:I've got some suicide jokes that are really tough that go well.
Guest:Suicide, rape, abortion was one.
Guest:Religion has always been one.
Guest:I've chilled out in religion a little bit.
Guest:I used to have a real problem with it, but now I'm kind of cool.
Marc:I used to do a joke where I said that the reason why the Christians are so anti-abortion is they think that something's going to go horribly wrong with the second coming.
Marc:And I do this thing where like the Three Kings, I used to do this thing where the Three Kings show up at a dumpster behind a doctor's office.
Marc:We can rebuild him.
Marc:I mean, there was a time where I felt that was more compelling to me.
Marc:And I think it must have been for that same reason.
Marc:Now, do you think, I'm trying to think in my life, why did I move away from stuff like that?
Marc:Because...
Marc:There was definitely a thrill to it, but it's not the thrill of like, these people are going to love me.
Marc:I mean, people who are going to laugh at that.
Marc:I mean, do you find that after the show, you got a lot of friends?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:And so there's some people who only want that.
Guest:Some people are fans that they just, they want every joke to be a dead baby abortion joke.
Guest:And you can't do that.
Guest:And I want everyone.
Guest:I don't just want my own little niche of fans that come out just to see stuff no one else will laugh at.
Marc:So you want everyone and you insist that you're going to get them the way you're going?
Guest:I mean, I try to, you know, I try, I just, I don't need everyone, but I want everyone, you know, so I do my best, but I do what I do.
Guest:You know, I'm hoping that, you know, I think the roast really helped a lot in terms of people just kind of knowing what they're getting a little more, that they're a little more into it.
Guest:And sometimes it's not as fun if the whole crowd is like on your side the whole time.
Guest:Or if they know all your jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The knowing the jokes thing is tough.
Guest:You know, there's like, I've got maybe 10 jokes that people have heard enough that people will yell out, you know, punchlines before, but it's usually just some wasted asshole.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you put your first record out recently.
Guest:Yeah, about seven months ago.
Guest:And it got received well?
Guest:Very well, yeah.
Marc:Who put it out?
Guest:Comedy Central.
Guest:They did?
Guest:Did it sell well?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For a digital release, it sold really well.
Marc:And so you're starting to sell tickets?
Guest:yeah yeah but the album helped a little bit but the the roast really helped it's been it's been pretty packed since the roast really yeah you're selling out uh you know selling out or getting close and uh and clubs yeah and just having crowds there for for me which is i can't even believe that's happening and what if you were to characterize your fans what are they are they like uh yeah like compared to who like are they mostly dudes
Guest:No, actually, it's like 50-50, man.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It was like if I would see a bunch of girls walking.
Marc:Oh, you got the looks.
Guest:You got the fucking looks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Since being on that roast, a lot more women come out.
Guest:And I think people with this good sense of humor or people who are willing to come to a comedy show and kind of be quiet.
Guest:I get a more reserved kind of intelligent fan, which I'm thrilled with.
Marc:Well, they like jokes.
Marc:I mean, you're a joke guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're a joke smith.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And they're excited about what the turn of phrase is going to be.
Marc:But going back to what I'm trying to think why I stopped doing jokes like that, because the thrill of... Because I've always been one of these people that, as much as I want people to like me, I defy them to do that in my personal life.
Marc:I don't know if it's because that's how I was brought up or what, but there's part of me that's sort of like, still like me now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you have that in you?
Marc:Not really.
Guest:I still want everyone to like me.
Guest:I want to be able to get away with everything.
Guest:So I want them to like me.
Guest:And they'll forgive, especially headlining, because it's so different.
Guest:You're doing 45 as opposed to- Well, you're the guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Plus, starting out here, you get five-minute sets, 10-minute sets.
Guest:And I kind of built myself for those.
Guest:If you can only do five, why not try to cram in as many jokes?
Marc:Well, I mean, are any middles giving you a run to your money?
No.
Guest:There'll be some people who kill, but it's so different.
Guest:That's why you change the whole speed, right?
Guest:Unless they do an exact... Andy Haynes opened for me in Seattle, and he opens with... Seattle's the suicide capital of the country, and does this whole bit, and my closer is how a different city is the suicide capital, because I'm like, oh, fuck.
Guest:So what'd you do?
Guest:Switch it up?
Guest:No, I did the joke anyway, and when I said... Somebody tells me that Great Barrington's a suicide capital, I say...
Guest:Wasn't it Seattle?
Guest:And they go, per capita.
Guest:And then the audience forgave me, and then he dropped the thing.
Guest:But once I was in, like, I forget where I was, maybe Kansas City or something, the opener was this guy who was so hacky.
Guest:I told people he made me want to quit comedy and marijuana.
Guest:And he would just destroy.
Guest:And then I would go out and eat it so hard after.
Guest:What was his closer?
Guest:I just remember the last thing he would yell is, Tiger Woods isn't even the... No, like, white people aren't even the best golfers anymore.
Guest:And the crowd was like...
Guest:Yeah, and then I walk out and just be like this is tough Did you know before you got on I kind of thought and then they proved it over and over again as the weekend You know wore on so the whole weekend was just fucked because of that guy I think it was because of the plate like the audience and that guy didn't help right any favors Well, I mean it's hard to switch gears I guess but now they're coming out to see you What are the other things on the list did you get race?
Guest:Race a little bit.
Guest:Race turns... Like, I've got this joke now that I think is, like, great.
Guest:What I say, like, my mom was really racist, you know, when I was a kid.
Guest:Like, so racist.
Guest:She used to tell me that Santa Claus was black.
Guest:That way, when I found out it didn't exist, it wouldn't be that big a letdown, you know?
Guest:And people get so uptight and I'm like, I'm not racist in the joke.
Guest:I'm like anti-racist, but it's just like a joke.
Guest:It literally is a joke about racism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not even racist, but people really have a problem with it, but I just have to keep doing it.
Marc:But that's because even if you bring up another race than you, people are like, I don't know where this is going.
Guest:But I bet if I said Mexican Santa Claus, people would go crazy.
Guest:I think just black has become this like, if you talk about African Americans at all, it's very loaded that people will be weirded out.
Guest:But you can make fun of any other group and they'll go crazy.
Guest:And the weirdest thing about that is if you do a black crowd, like an all black crowd, they love that shit.
Marc:They just want you to be confident.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when you're confident and ballsy and they think that's the ballsiest thing you can do is tell a race joke to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which I love.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you've worked for black crowds a lot.
Guest:Not a lot, but when I do, I'm thrilled to do it.
Marc:It's sort of like a rites of passage.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I remember starting out, and there was this room uptown where it's like, you want to work for an all-black room?
Marc:I'm like, I kind of have to, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I got to do it.
Marc:But as soon as you start to waffle...
Guest:yeah you're in trouble oh yeah as soon as they think that you want to be somewhere else they will let you know to get the fuck out of there yeah they just don't buy it yeah what about sexism or is that just implied I feel like people always accuse me of being misogynistic you know I got a lot of jokes where it's like oh my girlfriend this yeah my ex-girlfriend that I don't think of myself that way at all but I just think every joke needs a victim right and you know the best victim you know for my persona is the person you should be nicest to you know which is girlfriend or family yeah you know so it's hard to get away from that
Guest:And if I can make a joke about a guy, me doing something to a guy as opposed to a girl, I try to do it, but it's usually not as funny.
Guest:It usually doesn't work as well.
Guest:What about mentally disabled?
Guest:Yeah, love coming up with a good retarded joke.
Guest:I love it because it's the last thing you should be doing.
Guest:And people turned on retarded so hard recently.
Marc:I defend the word retarded publicly.
Guest:Yeah, that it's like, fuck you.
Guest:And the retarded people aren't the people who get mad about it.
Marc:Yeah, it's people with retarded people in their family.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And I've got a retarded person in my family.
Marc:So you got a license then?
Guest:I don't think it's license.
Guest:I just don't care so much that I want to put it out there more because people get so mad.
Marc:But it's also such a great word.
Marc:God, such a great word.
Marc:It's such a great word.
Marc:And I say on stage, sometimes I say, well, I never would call...
Marc:mentally disabled person a retard I'd call someone acting like a fucking retard a retard exactly like it doesn't exactly but I mean they can't separate it from the roots of it I guess and I mean I've had people come up to me like because I do a
Marc:I used to tell this story and I just stopped telling it because it's just there's nothing right about it.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I think I've told it on the show.
Marc:I'm not sure where I was.
Marc:I defended the word retarded.
Marc:You know, I have a standard defense of it that it's not used anymore.
Marc:So I'd like to have it back.
Marc:But that's not the issue.
Marc:The issue was like that when I genuinely said to the audience that when you see a mentally disabled person,
Marc:it's hard not to be filled with joy because they're so childlike and they experience joy so immediately that when they're having a good time, you literally feel elated because of their sort of unfiltered ability to experience joy.
Marc:So I don't think we should be arguing about the word retarded or about mentally challenged or developmentally disabled.
Marc:I think they should be called God's clowns.
Yeah.
Marc:And, and I said that one night, the first night I said it and the audience just could not stop laughing because it was so uncomfortable and wrong, but it was, it was so validating to me that I got a charge out of it.
Marc:And then, uh, like that night it was a bumper shoot.
Marc:And that night after I said it at the show, I went to see the stone temple pilots and, um, uh,
Marc:uh you know and i meant god's clowns in a nice way i didn't mean like god was making a fool out of them they're they're spreading joy in this way that i was really well intended and and i went to see the stone temple pilots and i was on the on the on the grounds you know waiting for this show and and i'm behind me i hear like some guy like the temple pilot yeah you know and i'm like what
Marc:And I turn around and there's this, you know, this like 25 year old, you know, mentally challenged dude, you know, standing there.
Marc:And, but when I heard him saying that, like, I again felt that excitement, like, you know, like he's so excited, you know, that's so raw.
Marc:And then I look over and he's with someone who must've been his dad.
Marc:And this dude just looked like every bit of everything had been drained out of his being.
Marc:And it was in that moment that I realized, I guess it's only fun for a little while.
Marc:And then I just stopped doing it.
Marc:I told that story.
Marc:So I think that stopped me from doing that.
Marc:Would that stop you?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:How developmentally?
Guest:Who's the one in your family?
Guest:It's like my dad's cousin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's much older.
Guest:She's like in her 50s now.
Guest:Down syndrome?
Guest:I'm not sure exactly what it is.
Guest:It's pretty mild, whatever it is.
Guest:It might be down syndrome.
Guest:It might just be the normal retardation.
Marc:Now, do you have some things that you're just frustrated that you can't fucking get a joke on?
Guest:There's nothing that I've been like frustrated with.
Guest:I would like, like when I hear comedians use the N word, you know, on stage, I think like, God, like I would, I wish I could find a way to do that without like having to say the word.
Guest:I don't want to say the N word.
Guest:That's like saying like, that's like calling, like saying like, oh, my pee pee.
Guest:You know, it's like when people, when comics like use like the, like a much cleaner version of a word, it's a, it's a real turnoff.
Guest:I think it rounds.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that's one.
Guest:I had a joke where I used the word nigger, but I just couldn't.
Guest:I said it twice in the joke and I was like, I can't.
Guest:I can't do this.
Marc:Why?
Guest:I just didn't feel right saying it.
Guest:Well, you probably shouldn't, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does that frustrate you that you can't say that word?
Guest:It kind of bugs me that I feel like I can't say it because there's no other word that I feel that way about.
Guest:And why do you think you feel like you can't say it?
Guest:I feel like I have friends who I can just picture their faces, like black friends when I say things.
Guest:And I'll have jokes about race that aren't necessarily...
Marc:But you don't want to be one of those guys accused by your black friends of just using it gratuitously because you want to try to take some ownership of that word.
Guest:I don't even care about being accused of it.
Guest:I think that word has so much power over a certain group of people more than any other.
Guest:I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Guest:I would never make a joke about...
Guest:someone's miscarriage, but I would certainly make a joke about miscarriages.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:I feel like that word gets so specific that I just don't think I could look my black friends in the face if I came off stage after telling that joke.
Marc:You know why that is?
Marc:Because there's no reason for white people to use that word.
Marc:yeah yeah it's like i i you know i've had discussions with guys before it's like hey it's just a word yeah okay but it's a word that has a very deep meaning to a lot of people yeah and there's no no one there there are black people that make arguments that that word should not even be used by black people totally so what do you get out of it i i don't think that there there there is a way to do it and i know that
Marc:And if people want to, I'm certainly not stopping them from doing it.
Marc:But I've thought about it myself.
Marc:And the only thing I come up with is there's no reason to use it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And but for somebody like you, that would be a challenge.
Marc:That would be sort of like, well, where's my sword?
Marc:I must figure out what to do with this.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:But that's where you draw the line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just a personal, you know, it's a personal line.
Marc:So in terms of like, because I've been talking about this a lot with people, and I've noticed that there's a, I think I heard Gervais talking about it, who I'm no huge fan of, and I know that Louis has talked about it.
Marc:Why did you just do that?
Guest:I just watched that Gervais' thing that like, the green, was it?
Marc:The green room?
Marc:Not the green room.
Guest:Oh, the one, yeah, with the sitting around funny people.
Guest:I would never let Ricky Gervais tell me anything about stand-up.
Guest:He's a hilarious guy, but... I feel the same way.
Marc:You've been doing stand-up, like, what, six years?
Marc:Yeah, I feel the same way.
Marc:It annoys me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I can't... The way he laughs... I mean, he's obviously a very inspired comedic performer, and he's got a great sense of comedy, but as a stand-up, I just don't know where he gets off on some level.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:but that's a different issue but but they were talking about he made a point in talking about um and louis does this too that that it's not even a matter of making a statement it's just that they go to where the juice is that if there's something that is loaded uh and and it's already filled up with gas you know why not you know try to set fire to it yeah and that's the same way you feel about it that's the challenge that you face as a comic
Guest:Totally.
Guest:I just feel like that's one of the reasons I got into this was to be able to say whatever I want.
Guest:And those things that you're not supposed to say are exactly what comedians are supposed to say.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think anyone who questions that is dead wrong.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, in my mind, there's things that you're not supposed to say.
Marc:What's more important, I mean, those things almost seem hack in a way.
Marc:Now, I'm not accusing you of being a hack, but I'm saying that to sort of go...
Marc:for some things for the value of, of how shocking it is.
Marc:Your take is going to be as a turn of phrase.
Marc:But what, what's more interesting to me is things that remain unsaid, not things that you're not supposed to say, but things that, you know, like there's nothing more threatening to a, to an audience.
Marc:If you sit there, if you get up on stage and go, yeah,
Marc:you know i feel kind of sad yeah yeah that is that is harder to overcome absolutely absolutely yeah i don't like it so that's my challenge like how do i make the audience actually feel emotionally drained by my fucking neediness but make them laugh at it well i'm glad we got that out i'm glad we figured that out about me so what uh so now what are you pitching around
Guest:I'm trying to put together a TV show for Comedy Central in the next few months, but I've got kind of like carte blanche to do what I want, which makes it harder.
Guest:I don't really have any big ideas.
Guest:I do the stand-up character really well, and I can play that character like a violin, but I don't know anything about story, about characters and things like that.
Marc:So you would want to do a character-driven sitcom piece?
Marc:Why wouldn't you just take your character out into the world?
Marc:and apply, let me help you write a show.
Marc:Like, what if you were to, you know, sort of take your sensibility and manifest it through, in a documentary style?
Guest:I mean, that's certainly a goal.
Guest:Everyone keeps saying, like, we want your version of Insomniac.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I'm sure you've heard the same thing, too, of, like, we want, like, to just take you and put you out there so that, you know, just get...
Guest:get your persona, you know, out there.
Guest:But I don't know how to do it.
Guest:And if someone comes to me and, you know, finds a good way, then I would be, I would be down.
Guest:But like, you're doing a thing right now that I remember, you're working with Christian Charles, right?
Marc:Yeah, I think that we might, he might have to go do a movie, but I was.
Guest:He told me about your idea, just like, you know,
Guest:And it sounded like the perfect idea was like, you know, where you interview a celebrity and then try to go out and apply that to your own life.
Guest:And it's like this clean idea where you can do a million episodes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And each one will be totally different.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That I'm looking for that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which it's been just really hard for me to find that I'm just kind of going around having meetings and looking for help.
Marc:Well, I think that like, well, when you think about putting the character out there in the world, I mean, because it seems to me that the way you've conceived of the character and the way you are is that, you know, what is the emotional depth of the character?
Marc:I mean, you're going to have to where does that character live?
Marc:I mean, I don't even know where the fuck you live.
Marc:I mean, what do you do with your day?
Marc:I mean, do you just smoke and write things down?
Guest:Uh, no, I mean, I, uh, you know, I hang out, I read a lot and I, you know, I try to write a little bit every day.
Marc:But you're a solitary dude.
Marc:So, I mean, so how does this guy that you play on stage, this guy that has the thoughts that he has, which are specific and you know that there's a distance between that and you, what, what, what, what's, what, where does he come from?
Marc:I mean, what, how does that guy live?
Guest:I mean, I think of him, you know, in terms of a persona as kind of like the devil.
Guest:You know, this guy is just supremely confident, doesn't have to do a lot, but he gets shit done if he needs it to be done.
Guest:And he does it in like such a way that's like, you know, he's kind of just a charming dick that he can't really get in trouble for it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:I always kind of liked having that like mystery to the character, you know, from on stage.
Guest:Almost like rock star mystique that I've never, you know, plumbed the depths of it myself to think about it.
Guest:But that's one.
Guest:Why don't you just play the devil?
Guest:I would love to play the devil.
Guest:I would love to put a devil or a hit man, but those things just seem like, it just seems like almost too high concept that if I tell my manager, I want to play the devil.
Guest:They're just like, please don't.
Marc:No, no, but I mean, but don't call him the devil.
Marc:It's just that, you know, you're out in the world trying to make Faustian deals with regular people.
Marc:Love to do that.
Marc:Like trying to get people to say things that they shouldn't trying to get people to do things that they shouldn't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or, or, or offering them things to do that.
Marc:Like I see maybe like, you know, that experiment where, where, uh, um,
Marc:What was the experiment where people were giving more voltage to people?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:In the 50s?
Marc:Right.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:What were the options?
Guest:No, it was just like, you have to.
Guest:It was like, if he gets his answer wrong, shock him.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's going to really hurt him.
Guest:And they would just do it, and the guy would scream.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they'd be like, I don't want it.
Guest:And they'd be like, you have to.
Guest:Hit the button again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's not going to know who you are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's not going to know, just hit it.
Guest:And people would be like sweating and being like, I can't, but they keep hitting it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So people would say, no, I think you should model your show around that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That sounds great.
Marc:I'll send you a check.
Marc:Do you know, just figure out different situations where people are put in a position to do what they shouldn't do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And because that's literally going to where the juice is and it's wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I mean, that's sort of like, that's a good metaphor for your approach to humor.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I gotta push a button.
Marc:Yeah, I like that.
Marc:Oh, fuck, man.
Marc:Well, come on, man.
Marc:Don't you fucking... I think you seem pretty confident in everything.
Marc:And you're a comic, so I know there's gotta be some fucking problem with you.
Guest:I was just, you know, I've tried to think about it, you know, like why I became a comic, because it wasn't like a family thing.
Guest:I feel like a lot of people have that like family story.
Marc:Your family was supported, you know, supportive and everything?
Guest:Yeah, you know, me as like a person, you know, in comedy, they were like, what are you doing for a few years?
Guest:But now they're so on board, it's ridiculous.
Marc:Oh yeah?
Guest:Oh yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, I remember when we were in, where were we?
Marc:Just in Austin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your show was airing and you called your folks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was all very nice.
Guest:Yeah, they're thrilled now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But they were like, I'm sure they would have rather I changed my name when I first started or didn't have Jessel Nick going out there.
Guest:But now they're psyched.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're psyched about it.
Guest:They're just happy that I'm making money and kind of doing what I want to do and being happy.
Marc:That's fucking nice.
Guest:But when I was in, I think the thing that really, I was just like very angry when I was a kid.
Guest:I didn't like school.
Guest:I didn't like being told what to do.
Guest:Did you kick people's asses?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I got in a couple fights, but I wasn't like a bully, really.
Marc:I was just kind of like- You were a brooder?
Guest:A little bit of a brooder and a little bit of a jerk.
Guest:I would use my bully tendencies to defend other people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I didn't like the popular kids, and I would kind of go after them if I saw an opportunity.
Guest:You weren't popular?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I wouldn't call, I would never have called myself popular.
Guest:I had friends, you know, I wasn't like a, like some nerd, but I, uh, but you know, I had my friends, but I wasn't with the cool kids ever.
Guest:Uh, but, uh, I just really hated being told what to do and I hated school and I figured it out pretty quickly that it was all bullshit.
Guest:You know, I figured out I was never going to really use calculus no matter what they said.
Guest:I figured out having to go to Sunday school, this Jesus thing is bullshit early on.
Guest:And then just sitting in church for an hour and a half was killing me.
Guest:My family just thought I was lazy or would rather be watching TV, but it was like, no, this experience is sandpaper on my eyeballs.
Guest:And school was like that too, that I was just like... And I couldn't...
Guest:keep my mouth shut.
Guest:You know, I was always saying things and always like joking around that, and they would, I would get in a lot of trouble for it.
Guest:And I would just think like, oh, when I, and I was dark then too, you know, which people thought it was like a problem.
Guest:They're like, oh, are you messed up in some way?
Marc:Were you drawing pictures of Hitler and with people's heads?
Guest:I was not a good artist, but I would write about things like that.
Guest:You know, I would write just dark stuff and I would joke around about, you know, just violent things.
Guest:And I thought it was hilarious, you know, and no one else did.
Guest:Maybe you are the devil.
Guest:Possibly, possibly.
Marc:Do you get any joy out of seeing people hurt?
Marc:It depends on the person.
Marc:It depends on the person, but I don't get too upset.
Marc:Like when Amy cries, do you feel like, yes.
Guest:No, but I kind of roll my eyes and just like, how long is this going to last?
Guest:when is this come on do you ever find yourself weeping anthony maybe during a tv commercial i cried recently i don't cry much like a like sad movies will get me like i feel like whenever there's like a father-son thing in a movie you know like at the end where they like you know have their right that gets me a little teary yeah for some reason yeah and my dad and i are great you know we have a great relationship uh yeah always always been awesome you know uh good friends you're also the first kid that you must have been like the fucking king of everything
Guest:Yeah, I did all right.
Guest:I did all right.
Marc:Were you the first grandkid too?
Guest:No, but only by a few months.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So you still got a good amount of attention.
Guest:We had five kids in seven years, so everyone was packed in.
Guest:But the family was great.
Guest:You were brought up Catholic?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he just, the hell thing never stuck.
Marc:None of it stuck.
Guest:I just, I mean, I just, they kept telling the same stories every year, you know, it'd be like, you'd hear about Noah and, you know, Noah doing this and the guy in the whale.
Marc:But what about all the fucking, but like Catholicism is such a big show.
Marc:I mean, you know, communion and shit.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, did you go to confession and shit?
Guest:Yeah, I had to a few times, but I was like, this doesn't, I don't feel any different.
Guest:Like, I would be like, I haven't done anything.
Guest:And the priest would be like, you must have done something.
Guest:You know, what have you, do you talk back to your parents?
Guest:Like, okay, I did that.
Guest:And they'd be like, well, that's a thing.
Guest:What about this?
Guest:But I just didn't, why do I have to tell this fucking guy anything?
Guest:You know?
Guest:And then I just, once I realized that the Jesus thing was bullshit, and even like the message, like Christian people didn't really follow it.
Guest:You know, it was just this very hypocritical thing that just drove me crazy.
Guest:And I felt like I had to have a lot of jokes about that in my act at first, but now I just don't really care.
Marc:Was there a moment where you realized Jesus was bullshit?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I remember being in CCD is what they called it.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:It was like the Sunday school.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Kids who went to public school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But would go to this Catholic place on Sundays.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And just listening to this story and being like, this fucking never happened.
Guest:This never.
Guest:And then everything just fell apart.
Guest:Everything.
Everything.
Guest:Where I was like, I can't believe they're even saying this to me with a straight face.
Guest:I was furious.
Guest:Furious.
Marc:And did they know it?
Guest:I think through my behavior.
Guest:I never just put my hand up and was like, how do you believe this shit?
Guest:But I was just like, all right, close this book.
Guest:This book is worthless.
Guest:And I just have to- How old were you?
Guest:I was young.
Guest:I was like maybe nine years old.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I remember being a little and just being like, and I had to keep doing it until like I was, I think when I was 12, I got confirmed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad, they were like, you know, this is your like baptism that you choose for yourself.
Guest:When you're a baby, you get baptized because you don't, you know, know what's going on, but this is like you choosing it.
Guest:So if you don't want to be this, we don't believe in it.
Guest:Then just tell us and you don't have to do it.
Guest:So I go in and tell my dad, hey, I don't want to do this.
Guest:I don't believe in it, and I don't want to be Catholic anymore.
Guest:And he's just like, you're 12 years old.
Guest:You don't know what you want.
Guest:You're going to do it.
Guest:And I was like, oh, all right.
Guest:I guess I'll do it then.
Guest:And are they religious?
Guest:My dad is.
Guest:Not super religious, but it's important to him to go to church every Sunday.
Guest:He believes in hell?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And I think that's what bothers me about me being such an atheist, that he doesn't want his son who he loves to go to hell.
Guest:But I don't see how anyone believes that shit.
Guest:yeah and do you uh when he hears your jokes does he get concerned no he's never really said anything about it even though i have like many jokes of like i am an atheist and i don't think i'm kidding but what about some of the stuff that could be construed as uh insensitive or slightly evil no they know i'm you know they know i'm joking though and they're they're pretty good about my mom you know doesn't get it as much you know she's like why do you have to talk about that but it's the kind of thing where like you have friends come to see you at a show and it's like
Guest:If you kill at the show, they think you're amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But even if it's just a bad night or it's four people in the crowd and you don't kill with them, then they think like, oh, you're just terrible.
Marc:Yeah, or you're in trouble.
Marc:It's not like you had a bad night.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:It was like my parents were like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And if everyone's laughing, they're like, oh, that was great.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But if they saw me bomb, they wouldn't know what to say to me.
Marc:Have they ever seen you bomb?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Guest:No, yeah.
Marc:And once you're on TV, then it's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the atheist thing, then in the sense of...
Marc:Because when you talk about how you approach jokes and then sort of understanding it's all bullshit, that there's sort of an existential theme to it that the only real answer is just to keep calling bullshit on everything.
Guest:Yeah, I think there was this line from... You remember the show Deadwood?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I worked on that when I first started doing stand-up.
Guest:I was an accounting clerk on it.
Guest:That was how I made my living for a couple years was being an accounting clerk on TV shows.
Guest:And I was obsessed with it.
Guest:I loved all the writers over there and everything.
Guest:And they had this one...
Guest:where uh where swear engine like the bad guy in the show is explaining to someone like what life is and he's like you know life is like he's like this guy's like you're giving me too much shit and he's like life is getting shit so you stand up and you be a man you try to give some back you know and i thought that was what i'm gonna do like i'm gonna try to give it back but in my way like these people who like forced religion on me and forced like rule on me and like this education on me like i'm gonna i'm gonna hurt them
Guest:But how can I do that by doing this?
Guest:I can get away with these things.
Guest:If I'm a comedian, I can say them.
Guest:So I can say all the dark things I want to do.
Guest:And it'll offend those people that I want to offend.
Guest:But I'll also get my people, people on my side.
Guest:And that was my whole philosophy.
Guest:And it was all based on that.
Guest:I think that summed it up pretty well.
Marc:And you were just a guy working as an accounting clerk on Deadwood.
Marc:And that was that moment.
Marc:You're like, the clarity came.
Guest:Yeah, I was just like, this is what to do.
Guest:This is how to act.
Guest:Who gives a fuck?
Guest:Worry about feelings later.
Guest:Just go in and give it back right now.
Marc:Did you thank, what was his name?
Marc:Barry Milchen?
Marc:What was the guy who wrote it?
Marc:David Milch.
Marc:David Milch.
Guest:I never got to thank him for that, but hopefully someday I'll get to talk to him.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:You should write him a letter.
Guest:Did he write that line?
Guest:I'm sure he did.
Guest:I'm sure he did.
Guest:You never got to meet him?
Guest:I met him briefly, but it was like, I'm the fucking accounting clerk.
Guest:Nobody wanted to talk to the accountants.
Guest:So that was just part of you building your anger engine.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:What other jobs did you do?
Guest:A lot of accounting stuff.
Guest:I worked at a bookstore when I first got to L.A.
Guest:That's where I got the book, you know, how to do stand-up comedy.
Guest:Got the thinnest one, you know, and that was Greg Dean's book.
Marc:Oh, so you work in a bookstore, you get that book, and then you go take that guy's class.
Marc:So now, do you have any, is there any, was that any sort of fuel for your hate engine, the stand-up class, or do you give him some credit for helping you?
Guest:I give him credit in getting me up to the open mic level.
Guest:I didn't know how to walk on stage and just do five or ten minutes.
Guest:So that class was like they just built you up until you had seven minutes.
Guest:My seven minutes, I told a story about getting fired from Borders Books.
Guest:And then I told a story about my girlfriend burning down my apartment in college.
Marc:So this is pre-joke writing Anthony Judson.
Guest:Yeah, this was like when they just taught you to talk about yourself.
Marc:What was the second one?
Marc:Your girlfriend won?
Guest:Accidentally burning down my apartment in college.
Marc:Did it have tags and beats and everything?
Guest:Yeah, it was like I was very, you know, this is my story and there's a bunch of different jokes in it.
Guest:And I had some good jokes.
Guest:One of the jokes I used on The Roast was one of my first jokes that I had written.
Guest:Which one was that?
Guest:I told one about Donald Trump being such a douchebag.
Guest:If you look up the word douchebag in the dictionary, there's a picture of Spencer Pratt.
Guest:But if you look close, Spencer Pratt is holding up a picture of Donald Trump.
Guest:And I had that about my manager at Borders.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I kind of knew how to like... I remember being excited about that joke.
Guest:This is a good one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then I just got sick of telling those same two stories.
Guest:And I was like a 24-year-old kid who didn't know anything.
Guest:I didn't want to complain about anything.
Guest:I didn't want to try to poke holes in the system or complain about politics.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just wanted to kind of do something.
Guest:And I saw BJ Novak actually had an open mic at the Unurban Cafe doing one-liners.
Guest:And I thought, holy shit, you can do that.
Guest:And then I just went home, scrapped up my whole set, and I would get Jack Handy's books, Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy, and I would just read through those.
Guest:And at open mics, I'd get there hours early, read through them, and then write my own jokes.
Marc:You read through them just because they were short?
Guest:They were short, and I liked that.
Guest:They all had that twist, and it was that how-do-you-think-of-it kind of twist that you needed to have.
Marc:Well, DJ is a good example.
Marc:He was a guy I noticed.
Marc:You guys are similar in that.
Marc:So much goes into you have a very compulsive and unique joke writing craft.
Marc:But he didn't have much personality on stage.
Marc:No.
Marc:But he had great fucking jokes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that sort of turns your mind.
Guest:Yeah, the joke's made up for it.
Guest:It was like, you just wanted to hear what was next.
Guest:You didn't care.
Guest:You just had to hear how he was going to do the next thing.
Guest:And he had some really edgy stuff back in the day.
Guest:But yeah, I just thought that doing one-liners, after seeing Stephen Wright and Mitch Hedberg do it, I just thought, I can't do that.
Guest:They're brilliant.
Guest:But seeing somebody in an open mic do it, I was like, oh, maybe I can do that.
Guest:That you could write the joke.
Guest:Yeah, and so I started doing that, and then eventually I told a dark one that had that mean twist on it, and the crowd reaction was just almost guttural.
Guest:Like an, oh, but a big laugh that I thought that's it.
Guest:What one was that?
Guest:This joke about my girlfriend loves to eat chocolate.
Guest:She says she's addicted to it.
Guest:I've got a chocolate addiction.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's really annoying.
Guest:So one day I put her in the car.
Guest:I drove her downtown and I pointed out a crack addict.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, you see that, honey?
Guest:why can't you be that skinny?
Guest:And that fucking kill, I was like, oh, that's all you got to do is just, you know, find those ones.
Guest:Surprise them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And stick it to them.
Guest:Surprise them with a mean, you know, with a mean twist.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you're getting back at the world.
Marc:Yeah, thank you.
Marc:Thanks, Anthony.
Marc:It's been a pleasure.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:That was Anthony Jezelnik.
Marc:Look, I learned something about him.
Marc:I was happy to talk to him.
Marc:Button pushing comedy.
Marc:It's the way.
Marc:Find your territory.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:This is me.
Marc:You don't like me.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:This is my room.
Marc:Love it.
Marc:WTF.pod for all your WTF related things.
Marc:There's all these new posters and t-shirts up there.
Marc:My new CD is up there signed if you want it.
Marc:Also get on that mailing list and I will mail you something every Monday.
Marc:A little thing that I write at the place.
Marc:Also, you can get the apps for iPhone, iPod, Touch, iPad, Droid.
Marc:I'm tired.
Marc:All that stuff.
Marc:You can get the app, the premium you can get on your computer.
Marc:It'll take you everywhere you need to go.
Marc:Just coffee.coop.
Marc:I have so much coffee.
Marc:So much coffee right now.
Marc:I could use a cup of coffee.
Marc:It's late here.
Marc:And I think I had a stroke today.
Guest:Come here, Boomy.
Guest:Boomy, come here.
Guest:Come here.
Guest:What's up?
Guest:Hi.
Guest:What's up, Boomy?
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Boomy.
Guest:Talk.
Guest:Boomer.
Guest:Talk.
Guest:Say something.
Guest:Did you hear him?