Episode 203 - Carol Leifer
Guest:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuckables?
Marc:That's a new one, but that's I can't get into the list.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Thanks for joining us here.
Marc:at the WTF show in the garage at the cat ranch.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Let's get a lot of stuff out of the way right now.
Marc:I'm just back from Vegas.
Marc:I'm exhausted.
Marc:I'm trying to regroup.
Marc:I'm trying to rejigger my brain.
Marc:I was overstimulated by all that bullshit in Las Vegas for the last three days.
Marc:And I got home, collapsed on the bed, and now I got a cup of this.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Whoa!
Marc:I just shit my pants.
Marc:That's justcoffee.coop, available at wtfpod.com.
Marc:I'm going to try to get a lot of stuff out of the way in a more professional format.
Marc:Like, I'm going to try to do my plugs up front as I talk.
Marc:Like, right here.
Marc:Right now, I'm going to do it.
Marc:I'm going to be at Hilarities this week.
Marc:Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
Marc:and Sunday at Hilarities in Cleveland, Ohio.
Marc:That is 25, 26, 27, 28 of August.
Marc:So if you're in the Cleveland area or anywhere in Ohio and want to make the trip, please come down.
Marc:It's going to be fun.
Marc:I hear it's a great place.
Marc:I've never been there.
Marc:I've never worked this club.
Marc:I've heard about this club since I started doing comedy.
Marc:I'm just fortunate enough to, at this late stage of my career, to all of a sudden have the opportunity to work at all the clubs I dreamed of working when I was a younger comic but could not get into.
Marc:That's exciting to me.
Marc:On the show today, Carol Liefer, the amazing Carol Liefer, a prolific comedy writer, stand-up comedian, very interesting life turns.
Marc:She was married to a comic briefly.
Marc:I have to ask her about whether or not Elaine on Seinfeld was based on her.
Marc:She was friends with that whole New York crew.
Marc:She came up with those guys in New York.
Marc:Very excited to talk to Carol Liefer.
Marc:She will be in the garage momentarily.
Marc:Meanwhile, what about me?
Marc:What about Mark?
Marc:How about Mark's needs?
Marc:Why don't we talk about those for a few minutes?
Marc:Because we so rarely do.
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:So I was in Vegas for three days and I really have to, in a big way, thank you WTF people that came out because I'm not a Vegas guy.
Marc:I don't really see myself as a Vegas act.
Marc:I've been to this club a couple of times before.
Marc:It's a nice room.
Marc:The guy who runs it's a great guy.
Marc:Court's a good dude.
Marc:I knew what I was getting into.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:It could have been shitty if you people did not come down.
Marc:It was a pleasure to see you.
Marc:Get a couple CDs out to you.
Marc:Give you the new buttons.
Marc:Got the new buttons.
Marc:Thanks for the nice little gifts, the tortilla chips and the green salsa that is still burning through my intestines right now.
Marc:It's only the green chilies.
Marc:I don't know why jalapenos, green chilies.
Marc:Have a little trouble with them.
Marc:Doesn't stop me from eating them.
Marc:I appreciate it.
Marc:You know how I feel about Vegas.
Marc:I think it's a soul suck.
Marc:I think it's a parade of sadness.
Marc:that there's a deep effort to have a predictable good time.
Marc:And I never know if anyone really is having a good time.
Marc:I do know that getting up to go to the breakfast buffet at seven in the morning before you go do radio, it's like taking a collective walk of shame with a bunch of people coming from different shameful behaviors.
Marc:I, of course, was just coming from my room, but there was shame in that because sometimes things happen in the room when I'm alone that I'm not proud of, but they happen.
Marc:It's a hotel.
Marc:I'm on the road.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:But more importantly,
Marc:I tried to overcome my fear of losing money.
Marc:I don't like to gamble.
Marc:I've talked about this before.
Marc:I'm not a good gambler.
Marc:I don't usually get very lucky.
Marc:And I ended up thinking once again, and I know that they're banking on this in Vegas.
Marc:I know that they...
Marc:are waiting for someone like me to go, maybe this is my time.
Marc:Maybe I, for once in my life, I can get lucky and get a, at least I'm not even looking to win hundreds of thousands of dollars or anything like that.
Marc:I just want to feel the buzz of gambling.
Marc:I want to feel what it's like to be on a roll.
Marc:I want to, I want to have the opportunity to get addicted to something new.
Marc:I want to feel that compulsion that not just the need to win, but that,
Marc:That feeling of winning over and over and over again that you want to chase for the rest of your life.
Marc:I want to give up my life, my house, my career to an obsessive, sick gambling addiction.
Marc:Can't I have that opportunity?
Marc:I mean, look, I've been out.
Marc:I've been sober for 12 years.
Marc:It's time to start something new.
Marc:So I did my best.
Marc:I sat down.
Marc:I started playing blackjack.
Marc:And I swear to you, within an hour, I was down like $300, which was the limit that I gave myself.
Marc:$300.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:No more.
Marc:I can live with that.
Marc:Problem was, that was Thursday.
Marc:I was there through Saturday.
Marc:So that required willpower, not only not to gamble, but not to, you know, get my fucking money back.
Marc:You know, I don't need to take that shit from a casino, them taking my money.
Marc:So what happened was I was willing to live with it, but then it made me feel stinky.
Marc:It made me feel awful.
Marc:It made me feel like an idiot.
Marc:You know, there I am working at a club, working at a casino.
Marc:They're paying me pretty good, but not that great.
Marc:Now I just dumped 300 of my hard-earned dollars back into their operation.
Marc:I know everyone's got to make a living.
Marc:And I know casinos need to make a living.
Marc:I know they're hurting down there, but it's really not on me.
Marc:to to frame it that way you know i feel guilty you know it's three hundred dollars it's a good cause to keep vegas alive that's not the way i think so come friday i'm like fuck it i'm gonna have to invest another hundred dollars to get my three hundred dollars back you know maybe i'll get that role maybe i'll get that new life as a gambling addict
Marc:So I start playing, and I allotted myself another $100 to get my $300 back.
Marc:All right, $500 in.
Marc:So $200 later, I'm down.
Marc:I'm down.
Marc:Now I'm down $500.
Marc:I don't have that kind of money.
Marc:I'm just basically spending the money I haven't even been paid to do the fucking stand-up show for.
Marc:So now I hate myself because I'm an idiot.
Marc:And also I've decided that I have bad luck.
Marc:I've talked about this before.
Marc:It's like, how can I not get one little buzz, one little string of good cards, one little exciting moment?
Marc:But then I found the game, folks.
Marc:I found the beautiful game.
Marc:It's a hand-dealt, two-deck blackjack, and they deal you two cards down.
Marc:The dealer gets one down and one up, and it moves fast.
Marc:and people seem to be intimidated about it, so no one's ever playing it, and I sat down, and this was it, man.
Marc:This was my game.
Marc:It moved fast.
Marc:It was exciting, and now I'm $500 in, and then I'm like, this is it.
Marc:I'm going to get it back now, so I put another $100 down, and within 30 seconds,
Marc:That's a stretch.
Marc:Within four minutes, I lost $100 more.
Marc:And now I'm angry.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:$100 more in chips.
Marc:So now I'm going in $700.
Marc:And then I lose that.
Marc:Except for $50.
Marc:So I lost $50.
Marc:So now I'm in for like $650.
Marc:It's awful.
Marc:No fun, no buzz, no roles.
Marc:Just this constant indication that I am a fucking idiot.
Marc:And I just kept playing and something turned around and I started winning and I won like $200.
Marc:I was playing $25 hands because I wanted to get my money back.
Marc:I won $200 and I said, you know what?
Marc:I'm going to stop.
Marc:I'm going to enjoy the buzz of that.
Marc:And I walked away.
Marc:A few hours later, I went back, started playing again, won another $200.
Marc:And I'm like, this is pretty good.
Marc:This could be a living, I think.
Marc:Just speculative blackjack playing with no system in place.
Marc:And then I step away from the table.
Marc:And then I go back and I finally get all my fucking money back.
Marc:The night after the second show on Saturday night, right before I'm about to go home, I'm at that table and I'm sitting there with a stack of all the money.
Marc:I had already put $400 up in my room because I didn't want to touch it.
Marc:So I was going back with just $100.
Marc:And I broke even.
Marc:And I want to say as a testament to me that when I broke even,
Marc:I could have started over and said, no, I'm going to give myself a $300 limit.
Marc:But folks, I did not do that.
Marc:I went upstairs.
Marc:I stacked my chips.
Marc:I looked at them.
Marc:I didn't cash them until the next day.
Marc:So I left Las Vegas even.
Marc:And for some reason, I believe that's winning.
Marc:And I don't think I'm going to become a gambling addict.
Marc:I wish I would have had an exciting, a more exciting button to that story.
Marc:More exciting sort of like then I went upstairs.
Marc:I got all 700.
Marc:I put them on black and I won and I'm $1,400 up.
Marc:Then I put all $1,400 on the number 27 and I won.
Marc:And now I've got some amount of money.
Marc:And then I put it all on black again.
Marc:And now I have a million dollars.
Marc:And I'm going to buy myself a new garage.
Marc:Did not happen.
Marc:Broke even.
Marc:Got up too early.
Marc:Felt shitty.
Marc:Ate a lot of buffet.
Marc:A lot of buffet.
Marc:God, the compromises you make with your dietary integrity when there is a buffet around.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I was eating things I would never eat.
Marc:Did not eat the raw oysters at the buffet.
Marc:Do not think that's a good idea.
Marc:Saw raw oysters.
Marc:I said, do you eat raw oysters at a buffet?
Marc:Hey.
Marc:Hell no.
Marc:Did not eat the raw oysters.
Marc:Did eat bread pudding, rice pudding, soft serve ice cream, crab legs.
Marc:Ate those.
Marc:Mound of barbecue at a buffet.
Marc:If there's anything I'm ashamed of in terms of what happened in Vegas, what didn't stay in Vegas was my knowledge that I sat there and continued to eat plate after plate of food at a free buffet because it was free.
Marc:And I was just one of those people.
Marc:yep i am i am a i'm a buffet eater so now i'm back i flew home got in my car nice surprise in the car ants ants in the car where how the hell does that happen how do i have ants in my car where the fuck are they coming from is there a colony of ants in my car is there a queen ant burrowed under the seat with her big gross distended egg sack
Marc:just laying there defenseless, surrounded by an army of idiots who are wandering around my car looking for little pieces of candy and sugary things?
Marc:How the fuck are there ants in my car?
Marc:I mean, what kind of indication is that?
Marc:How did my car become the free buffet for the ants at the casino beneath the rug in my fucking Camry?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know where they came from.
Marc:I don't know if I was parked on an anthill.
Marc:I don't know what to do about it.
Marc:I have to assume it's not a colony and it's just some renegades.
Marc:So I've got some mercenary force of ants who are now far away from their army and are now subcontracting
Marc:Hopefully they'll get out of my car.
Marc:Maybe they'll meet my community of ants here and be taken in and looked after as members of another tribe who will now work with us to make life miserable for Mark when he gets up and he sees us parading around his fucking sink in the morning.
Marc:We had Paul Reiser in here.
Guest:Oh, oh my God.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Do you know he's the whole reason I do stand-up?
Guest:I started stand-up, but that's good for the air.
Marc:Yeah, well, we can get into it.
Marc:We can be on the air as quickly as now.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:Can you hear yourself?
Guest:Yes, through the miracle of fiber optics.
Marc:Yeah, it all works.
Marc:In my garage here at the Cat Ranch today is Carol Liefer.
Marc:Hi, Carol.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:Yeah, Paul is in here.
Marc:Who else did I interview that you would know?
Marc:I mean, I interviewed...
Marc:Richard Lewis, I got up here.
Marc:That was no easy chore.
Guest:That's pretty great.
Marc:He required a car.
Marc:He didn't want to drive.
Marc:And I was lucky enough to get him at nine in the morning.
Marc:So he was actually relatively slow paced.
Marc:Oh, nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Actually, Richard Lewis was a class behind me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Starting in New York when I did.
Marc:So how did Paul Reiser play in the year starting?
Guest:Well, here's the really wild story.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So I went to school, college in Binghamton, New York.
Marc:You're from New York, right?
Marc:Well, no.
Marc:My family's from Jersey.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.
Marc:It's SUNY Binghamton?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And we were in a theater group together.
Marc:He told me about this theater group.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like the funny guy in the theater group.
Guest:And I was the funny gal.
Guest:And we started going out.
Guest:I fell in love with him like I did many funny guys because he knew the 2000 year old man album.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, could lip sync it like I could.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:and he grew up in the city i was from long island he said you know during the summer i go to these comedy clubs like catch rising star and i go on and i audition and i was like wow that sounds like a really but you know but it was so new like in college like this guy goes to nightclubs like but you weren't you weren't thinking about doing stand-up i wasn't thinking about it all right and then i went with him and tried it yeah catch rising star yeah yeah and it
Guest:went well and to the point where he was a year ahead of me at school we both passed the audition at the comic strip passed by Jerry Seinfeld and I transferred to Queens College to finish school and Paul had graduated and we started our stand-up comedy careers but I always say to Paul and we're still really dear good friends I really feel like maybe if I hadn't met him and found that path into stand-up and also having someone hold my hand kind of do it that way if I would have even found it
Marc:Yeah, probably not.
Guest:Right?
Marc:What do you mean Seinfeld passed you?
Marc:Did he have that power at that time?
Marc:Was he hosting?
Marc:What do you mean?
Guest:Yeah, he was the emcee.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he'd only been doing it a year, but he was already a star at the comic strip.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:Isn't that amazing?
Marc:Yeah, so, okay, so that class then.
Marc:See, I see it in classes too, and it gets a little hazy.
Marc:Around those classes.
Marc:But so your class was in Seinfeld.
Marc:He's a little bit ahead of you.
Marc:Reiser, you, Larry.
Guest:Larry Miller.
Marc:Mark Schiff, Larry Miller.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:He was in here.
Marc:Who else was there?
Marc:Dennis Wolfberg.
Guest:Dennis Wolfberg, Rita Rudner.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Do you talk to her?
Guest:You know, I haven't seen Rita because she, I think, she lives in Vegas and has her own room there.
Marc:Who am I thinking about?
Marc:Didn't she marry an Australian?
Guest:She did marry a promoter.
Guest:I think he's British, though.
Marc:Oh, OK.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So she's got a regular gig in Vegas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's got a regular good swinging gig in Vegas.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:She had a talk show for a while.
Marc:But let's get back to you.
Marc:I just saw your young comedian special, I think.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:They run it on HBO comedy.
Guest:I know from the weird Facebook messages I get.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:You're on.
Marc:It's time travel.
Marc:Yes, your daughter's on TV.
Marc:That was like, it must have been like the second or third one.
Marc:What was that?
Guest:It was 1983.
Marc:Steve Sweeney, you.
Guest:Steve Sweeney, Bill Maher.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Marc:Looking all puffy-faced.
Marc:It's amazing how much his style has not changed outside of him being political in terms of his structure.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:He was part of that group, too, right?
Guest:He was part of that group.
Marc:Was he always like he was?
Guest:He was always... Yeah, he... You know what I loved about that time?
Guest:And, you know, I...
Guest:And very nostalgic about my comedy roots.
Guest:I'm so glad.
Guest:Yeah, I have really powerful, great feelings about it.
Guest:It's because I feel like it's a time gone by.
Guest:We all liked each other and watched each other and critiqued each other and helped each other.
Guest:And I remember when Bill Maher first came on and, you know, that feeling when a bunch of comedians sit and watch, you know, a club manager can say, oh, I saw somebody good.
Guest:And it's like, no, let the comedians watch.
Guest:It's like, no, this guy's really good.
Guest:And you know it in two seconds.
Guest:Now, where did you start out at?
Marc:I started, I basically started in college and I moved out here for a year.
Marc:I was a dorm at the comedy store and then, and then I kind of hit the wall.
Marc:I moved back to Boston in 88.
Marc:So I started there kinda.
Marc:And then I moved to New York in 89.
Marc:So the original improv was in its last throes.
Marc:Silver had it.
Marc:So I was able to perform there.
Marc:The original catch I never got to do because Lewis never liked me, but I hung around there, but that would have been the late eighties.
Marc:So, you know, you guys were long gone.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I remember seeing, maybe seeing Larry David once or twice and Fred Stoller and some other people, Larry Amoros.
Marc:But were you even doing comedy?
Marc:You were doing comedy through the 80s?
Guest:I was.
Guest:And you married a comic.
Guest:Yes, I did.
Marc:I tried to get him on the show after seeing that movie.
Marc:It was in Rich Scheidner.
Marc:And I've talked to him a bit, but I haven't been able to get him.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Marc:Out of all the comics, out of all the Jews in the world, you marry that guy who's not a Jew and he's nine feet tall and...
Marc:And he's nuts.
Guest:Well, he, you know, he is a very interesting guy and a very charismatic guy.
Guest:No, no, I like him.
Guest:I'm not saying anything negative about him.
Guest:So, you know, that's what led me to marry him.
Guest:But, you know, I think we would both agree that it was kind of a rash decision, you know, maybe something.
Guest:It was a crazy time.
Guest:It was very doing a lot of drugs and, you know, nutty, crazy when you're in your early 20s kind of thing.
Marc:didn't you guys tour together we did a little bit i kind of remember yeah you know why because i never liked to close because i didn't like that pressure and he was a great closer because he's so big and loud yeah and so it's like if i can middle and you can close like let's do her because yeah i never i was never never been able to talk to like significant others of comics someone suggested i do a show with wives or girlfriends of comedians uh-huh and none of the comedians will really allow it
Guest:I'm surprised.
Marc:Well, I think they're afraid that the truth will be revealed about what insecure, unbearable people they are.
Guest:Well, you know, at this point, it was so long ago.
Guest:It's really like it is another life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, let's go back to like, because I like people who are nostalgic about coming from comedy because I am that way, too.
Marc:I feel intrinsically and emotionally connected to almost everybody I started with, even if I didn't talk to them that much.
Marc:yes at that time there was really two clubs or maybe like danger fields was probably there but it was the comic strip catch sometimes danger fields no it was the comic strip catch and the improv oh the improv yeah and danger fields was kind of like you do it for i remember doing prom shows there right like it was oh it was like that then like this weird place no one went yeah no you did not go on there regularly no like only three people did hiram kasdan used to host there and that was it yeah
Marc:I didn't even know that Hiram, um... Yeah, I remember he hosted an open mic there.
Marc:I played there once, maybe when I was in college, to audition, and he was there, like, still talking like he talks.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And that's all I remember about it, other than being a frightening place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, there are the three clubs.
Guest:And, you know, what I, I mean, what I think is interesting and it would be interesting to the audience is like, we've never met before.
Guest:I've certainly, you know, heard about you over the years and heard that you're, you know, a great comic and have heard, you know, WTF and all that.
Guest:But it's like, even not knowing each other,
Guest:The fact that we're both, you know, came up as stand-ups, there's like a bond there instantly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That, you know, it just happens.
Guest:It's just a kinship.
Guest:Yeah, it's weird, right?
Guest:Yeah, and it is.
Guest:And because a comedian, I really find that other comedians only understand other comedians.
Guest:And as much as you...
Guest:I have a great partner now, which is a whole other story that I've been with, someone I love for 15 years.
Guest:And as much as I love her, she'll never understand my world of stand-up like other comedians do.
Marc:Right, because it crosses gender and race and everything else.
Marc:The basic understanding of comedians is that we're all in this weird, gypsy-like, selfish kind of... I can't quite explain it, but I definitely know what you're talking about.
Guest:Yeah, and it's a guerrilla way of making a living.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And then if it's a Jew comedian, then then you have the Jewish thing, too.
Marc:So then it's double layer.
Guest:But I mean, I was thinking about it because even this past Saturday night, I did stand up for a charity event like I do a lot.
Guest:And, you know, it's so typical.
Guest:Before I did the gig, I said to them it was in New Jersey.
Guest:I said to this group.
Guest:I would love to go on early in the evening.
Guest:And what I find when I go on early is it's good for the crowd.
Guest:It brings a lot of energy and it'll be great.
Guest:And they got back to me and said, you know what?
Guest:We always find comedy.
Guest:And after the second intermission is better, that works for us.
Guest:Anyway, they were paying me.
Guest:So I felt like I couldn't push it that far.
Guest:And I went on for an event that started at five o'clock at 1130 at night.
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:You know.
Marc:And how much were you freaking out before?
Guest:I was totally freaking out and really angry and mad, which you know as a performer is the worst thing to get your head in that space.
Guest:And you have no recourse because you're not with an agent or manager.
Guest:It's just you.
Guest:And any other comic knows, A, about structuring a show.
Guest:You can't put on a charity show and start at 5 and think you're going to entertain people at 11.30 at night.
Marc:At what age were they?
Marc:Were they middle-aged people?
Guest:No, they were, I would say, 35 was the average age.
Marc:Okay, so you're steaming backstage.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:There's no one to call.
Guest:No one to call.
Guest:Nothing to do.
Marc:How are they handling it?
Marc:Are they like, don't worry?
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Guest:It's just it ran like, you know, it runs long.
Guest:It's like, of course these things run long because you're presenting these awards to people and they don't understand.
Guest:We know because this is what we do for a living.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's torturous for the audience.
Guest:You're torturing your audience.
Guest:You should always make a charity show, max two hours.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you'll get people to come back next year and they'll give you even more money.
Guest:But when you make it torturous for the audience and then for your performers, it's disaster.
Marc:What happened?
Guest:So I went on 1130.
Guest:You could feel them being like, I want to get home.
Guest:I need to get home.
Guest:And I did a very short set, and they were very polite with their applause.
Guest:I passed a ton of people as I was going to the gig in the hotel going, we wanted to stay, but we're so tired.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:You know, and we know any other comic has been in that situation like me three fucking thousand times before and knows it and knows the horribleness, the walking off and nobody parts the curtain for you and you're looking for the curtain to, you know, where it breaks.
Marc:Yeah, the embarrassment on top of it to add to things.
Marc:You got to stumble around like an idiot.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:What kind of charities do you usually do?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Here's the thing.
Guest:A lot of times, you know, I really feel, you know, charitable about a lot of things.
Guest:And I'll waive my fee.
Guest:And if they buy a lot of books.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And this group bought 600 of my books, I'll waive my fee.
Marc:What's the title of it?
Guest:It's called When You Lie About Your Age, The Terrorists Win.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So if they buy a bunch of books.
Guest:So this was for marriage equality.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:A Jersey group.
Guest:So for, you know, the gay groups.
Guest:the animal groups because i'm a big animal person yeah uh jewish yeah a woman you know pro-choice the feminist things um and i think that's pretty much the gamut of my yeah those are your those are my big four things so a lot of times people say will you do this event and you know i'll i'll do that for them if i feel a certain uh kinship a little sadaka yeah yeah yeah not to be confused with neil
Guest:For whatever they're causing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, so let's go back to, what is it, the late 70s?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay, so I want to know who your generation was sitting around looking at.
Marc:Because when I was coming up, there was always the guys ahead of us were, you've got to watch this guy.
Marc:And I have to imagine at that time, I mean, was Andy Kaufman was around?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:He was gone?
Guest:He was the class before me.
Guest:Even Elaine Boosler, who I saw, and felt like, oh, I want to be like her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's a comedian I can relate to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:who's not just doing Am I Right Ladies and, you know, girl shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was already gone, too, when I started.
Marc:So who was around?
Guest:Well, it was Seinfeld was the star.
Guest:And like I said, it was amazing that he'd only been doing it for so short a time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he was perceived that way.
Guest:He was the only person of my generation who we all fucked around all day.
Guest:I mean, that's the beauty of being that age.
Guest:Oh, just wandering around writing things down.
Guest:And he was like, I have to write every day.
Guest:And we're like, oh, God.
Guest:It was like an hour.
Guest:But he seemed like Einstein to us.
Guest:To have to go off.
Marc:And you guys just wanted to go eat.
Marc:Or get drunk.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:But like people you were saying, Larry Miller.
Guest:I mean, of the bigger people, I remember...
Guest:Robert Klein coming into the improv and seeing me and I had a particularly bad set but coming over to me and saying stay with this you have something you have a spark don't let the audience you know bum you out keep doing it that I mean he was I think our god
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It took me a long time to appreciate him.
Marc:I had some weird interaction with him where he was very overbearing and a bit nasty.
Guest:Yeah, that can kill it for you.
Marc:But he was never one of my guys when I was growing up, but I went back.
Marc:I actually watched him on SNL when he hosted SNL in that first season.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:And it was like, holy shit.
Marc:I mean, he had this capacity to song and dance and mimic and everything and just making these huge bits.
Marc:He was pretty amazing to watch.
Guest:Yeah, he was definitely, and Richard Pryor, you know, the movie.
Guest:At the improv?
Marc:Or no, he didn't.
Guest:The first concert movie?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, the first concert movie.
Guest:Live in concert.
Marc:That changed my life.
Guest:Right?
Marc:That thing was amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just talking about yourself, that kind of vulnerability.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:But, like, you're a real comic.
Marc:I mean, Christ, you do comedy still, and you did, you were stand-up for years.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, some people, like, did stand-up and then got the opportunities that you did, and then just kind of, you know, let it go.
Guest:No, I don't think you can ever, ever give it up.
Marc:Well, even talking to Paul, I mean, even talking to Riser, when you really look at his career, I mean, he was intensive stand-up for, what, maybe seven years?
Marc:And then he got a huge break?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And then, you know, then he could really pick and choose.
Marc:And it doesn't seem like he keeps his chops in place.
Guest:No, I mean, he...
Guest:It's what's so interesting, too, about him as a real artist.
Guest:You know, when I met him in college, he was a music major.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And was brilliant with composing and on piano.
Guest:And, you know, he's taken that now to doing this album with Julia Ford.
Guest:And I'm going to actually go see him next month at the Roxy, I think.
Guest:And that he's explored that side of himself.
Guest:But, you know, I've always felt like being a comic, it's in my DNA.
Guest:It's like in the bones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was a time when I was writing for Seinfeld that I didn't do stand-up as much.
Guest:And then I would go on stage.
Guest:I remember the first time I went on, I felt like an auditioner.
Guest:It's like, I'm never going to have this happen again.
Guest:I need to honor what gave me everything and what kind of makes me tick, too.
Marc:Well, that's great to hear that.
Marc:Because even Richard Lewis was, as respectful as he is of his peers, he's like, I'm still doing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:I'm still out there and I love it.
Marc:This is what makes me tick.
Marc:So like when it comes to your parents, I mean, you talk a lot about being a Jew.
Marc:I talk a lot about being a Jew, but I'm not a Long Island Jew.
Marc:That's a very specific, very sort of it seems authentic Jewish archetype.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, what was that like for you?
Marc:What were their responses to it?
Marc:What did they come from?
Guest:Well, you know, my father, who has since passed, wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:It was his dream.
Guest:And he was very funny and was like the tummler, you know, the joke teller of the neighborhood.
Guest:And everybody always knew him as funny.
Guest:And I watched him as a little girl telling these jokes and the power of it and really was enthralled by it.
Guest:And so when I started to want to become a comedian...
Guest:I remember my father was like, oh, I passed the audition at the comic strip.
Guest:My father was like, well, you know, Carol, show business is a big cash business and you can't beat cash.
Marc:At least he was supportive.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:No, he was like, you got to strike while the iron's hot.
Guest:He was really happy for me.
Guest:And I look back now that he's not here anymore and that he didn't fulfill his dream, but was so happy for me that I did.
Guest:What kind of business was he in?
Guest:He was an optometrist and his name was Seymour.
Marc:See more.
Guest:See, look at that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, he's told jokes to his patients and all that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my mother is still living.
Guest:She is a shrink.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And has been your whole life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She became a shrink.
Guest:She got her degree like when I was in high school.
Guest:But I think the combination of, you know, like this outgoing comedian father and my mother, the quiet, more intellectual shrink, you know, as I'm kind of like the fused version of it.
Marc:Well, that's nice, though.
Marc:I mean, it sounds like at least they're both intelligent people and they were supportive and, you know, they didn't go through that period where they were frightened for your choices.
Guest:No, my mother did admit she's a little, at times, a little too honest about things.
Marc:Oh, isn't that horrible?
Marc:There shouldn't be a statute of limitations on shit your parents can tell you.
Marc:I've realized this later in life where my parents are about to, you know, I want to tell you, you know what, let me just stay in the dark.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, she confided that she did think that it was something I would have gotten out of my system and I would have gone on to be a lawyer.
Guest:But, you know, my father, the most important... He did get to see some great things that I feel really, you know, great about.
Guest:Like...
Guest:the first time I did the Letterman show, it wasn't really doing the Letterman show as much as my father seeing my name in the New York Times.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like, that was a big deal.
Guest:And then I got review by the New York Times and I got a great review.
Guest:And he came with me to Westbury Music Fair when I opened for Jay Leno.
Guest:And I had a great set and I did really well, but the next day I got the review in Newsday.
Guest:They gave a great review to Jay and they panned me and I thought my father said, as a really good Jewish father would, he said...
Marc:the reviewer is clearly anti-semitic without a doubt yeah so that it's interesting that that your generation came on the sort of breaking wave of that old-timey show business that you know there was still you know like jay must have been what he must have been in his 30s at that time and he was big already right yeah my own for him was 87 yeah
Marc:So there were still guys around like Alan King and those guys were still sort of still performing.
Marc:And you did.
Marc:How much opening work did you do?
Marc:Did you open for big, like old timey guys?
Guest:You know, I opened for, you know, a lot of people like the Pointer Sisters.
Guest:Oh, you did that, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was it horrible?
Guest:You know, it wasn't too bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But...
Guest:The music acts weren't as bad.
Guest:I mean, I opened, though, for the Beach Boys once.
Guest:One of the Beach Boys, you know, this is how long ago it was, who's like dead now, Carl Love.
Guest:Well, that's several of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Saw me on Letterman and asked me to open for them.
Marc:Carl Wilson?
Guest:Carl Wilson, sorry.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Lake Tahoe for them.
Guest:And I'd only been doing stand-up for a little bit, and I wasn't casino ready.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Guest:And so I was with them for New Year's Eve.
Guest:And the audience obviously was very drunk.
Guest:And there were these like frat guys right in the front.
Marc:That's already bad.
Guest:And they, Mark, they literally were pulling on the mic cord.
Guest:And nobody was policing the room.
Guest:So I'm literally having a tug of war first about the mic.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:and um they were chanting reefer reefer like you know yeah instead of my name and um yeah that was the worst gig isn't that weird that you know given that gig that you did the other night and given that experience that these are not unusual experiences that there's this constant battle yeah uh like i i quoted a lot but harry shearer once said to me that you know comedians are do what they do to try to control why people laugh at them
Marc:Like in my heart, you know, the most horrifying thing for me as a person is to be embarrassed.
Marc:I don't want to be caught off guard.
Marc:I don't want to be standing there embarrassed.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Every night we put ourselves in these positions where there's no way you're going to, there's no way you're not going to be embarrassed.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And it could happen any fucking point in your career.
Marc:Some idiot can tug on your mic cord and you got to sit there and wrestle with this.
Marc:Tell me.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I mean, even to the point of, and it never ends of this past Saturday night, walking off stage where people have been sitting there for six and a half hours and looking for the opening for the curtain.
Guest:But see, this is why I love standup though, because it makes you, I think a really strong person because any personal stuff that I've experienced, that's embarrassing or horrible.
Guest:It's like, are you kidding me?
Guest:Like what I experienced at work is 30 times worse than this shit.
Marc:This is a piece of cake.
Marc:Yeah, it's just unbelievable.
Marc:So when you were, okay, so now you knew Larry and you knew Jerry.
Marc:Now you knew Larry as a stand-up.
Marc:Were you guys friends?
Guest:As a stand-up.
Guest:When I auditioned at Catch Rising Star, he was the emcee, the host.
Guest:Larry David was.
Guest:Yeah, and he passed me on that audition.
Marc:So he was the guy that, where, Catch?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And he, like, I only saw him a couple times and I never saw him finish a set.
Oh.
Guest:Right?
Marc:I mean, like I never, like I saw him when I was very young and he was, I think it was just after he had done Fridays.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And he, like twice I saw him, would not finish.
Guest:He had the shortest fuse ever.
Marc:But like three minutes in.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I'm done.
Marc:I'd go.
Guest:But it was always based on, you know, if somebody wasn't looking or listening or said something to him, he would just be like, that's it, I'm out of here.
Guest:And if you knew you were going on after Larry David, if your spot was at like 1210, you had to be there at 1150 because you knew at any second he could walk off.
Yeah.
Marc:Off stage, was he a pleasant person?
Guest:You know, people always ask about him.
Guest:I mean, obviously, the connection to Seinfeld, ask about him, ask about Jerry.
Guest:I don't think people realize, you know, what a softie he is.
Marc:I mean, he's such a sweetie.
Marc:Like later, like recently.
Marc:And the difference between him and the character is extreme.
Marc:Like you watch enough Curb, you sort of want to believe that's him.
Marc:But he's a very sweet guy.
Guest:He just has the biggest heart.
Guest:What about Jerry, though?
Marc:I mean, I don't want to be catty, and I know you get asked these questions a lot.
Marc:But I'm one of these people, for as long as I've been doing comedy,
Marc:I'm willing to appreciate Jerry Seinfeld for what he's contributed in as a comic, but I never ever got a sense of who that guy was.
Marc:And for me, when I watch comics, I need to see their vulnerability.
Marc:And I would watch him for years.
Marc:I know he's a great craftsman and everything else, but I just never got a sense of who he was as a person.
Guest:I'm surprised only because...
Guest:Especially working with someone.
Guest:When you work with someone for 75 episodes on something, you really see the real personality of somebody.
Guest:And, you know, there were so many comics who were really kind of hysterical bosses, you know, along the, you know, the Roseanne stories that you hear.
Marc:Like funny or bad hysterical.
Guest:Bad hysterical.
Guest:Where people were afraid.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, a fellow comics as writers intimidated them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I always say this about Jerry, and I mean it.
Guest:He's the most together person I've ever met who hasn't had any therapy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he's very even and a great person to work for, and people loved working for him.
Guest:And Larry, I think what they also smartly did was set up a very...
Guest:a very good, you know, team working together.
Guest:I mean, Larry really supervised the show, obviously, because Jerry was in it and couldn't oversee all the details, but always deferred to Jerry, like, if there was a, you know, a question about a bit or an idea or a joke, you know, Larry was always, it's Jerry's call, because his name is on the show.
Guest:And I thought that was really smart.
Guest:But working for them, it was a great environment, a pleasant environment.
Guest:And Jerry never needed to
Guest:throw around the weight of his ego to the people that worked for him, which I think is rare.
Guest:A lot of people, stand-ups could be monsters in that situation.
Marc:And he probably appreciated the fact that he was surrounded by great actors and great writers and that maybe he actually knew his limitations, which is important as a grown-up to know that we're all a team here and it's all going to make the final product look good.
Marc:And I think your explanation of him would explain why I've been uncomfortable with him.
Marc:I have a very difficult time with people who are together.
Guest:Maybe that's it.
Marc:I mean, if I'm in conversation with someone who's got their shit together, it's going to be hard for me not to try to make them fall apart somehow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's how I emotionally connect with people.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Because I don't know where you're coming from.
Guest:But, you know, I think also I have an advantage, I think, being female in that I feel like the guys that I started with really...
Guest:I feel like I have a kind of brotherly, sisterly relationship where they kind of... Yeah.
Guest:Like a big brother kind of thing.
Guest:And I still get advice from... He's also a very sage person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just about the business and... Yeah.
Guest:You know, even when I was a stand-up starting out and I would get discouraged, you know, he made a baseball analogy to me that I didn't really understand.
Guest:I had to explain, you know, a really good batter is a three-something, as a three-something average.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not a sports guy, yeah.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:But, you know...
Guest:Meaning you hit three times out of ten.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So you have to look at the bigger picture and not set by set of getting good and getting better.
Marc:And you were on that writing staff for the first season or how many seasons?
Guest:I was on for the three middle seasons.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And now I don't know if it's true that they based Elaine on you somewhat.
Marc:I know you probably fielded that question before, but is that true?
Guest:Have I?
Marc:Well, we don't have to do it.
Marc:I mean, it's just sort of an interesting story.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's kind of something that really took on a life of its own.
Guest:It's really a small detail.
Guest:I mean, I know that when they were coming up with the characters for the show, I know that Jerry thought it'd be interesting to have a female character that you've already dated because it really changes the dynamic of it in a myriad of interesting ways.
Guest:And so in that respect, I think, you know, that's an inspiration from, you know, our relationship.
Guest:But besides that, you dated him.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Oh, I didn't know that.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:You dated all the comics.
I did.
I did.
Marc:So that's Reiser, Seinfeld, Scheidener.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Who else?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Probably those are the big three.
Marc:Let's go with some sex stringers.
Marc:I've been around a long time.
Marc:I just want some dirt now.
Guest:You know, here's the thing, too.
Guest:You know, I like funny people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved funny men.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't think people realize, too, when you're coming up as a comic, and especially at that time, every night I went on a comedy club.
Guest:I mean, it was.
Marc:It's your life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they understood your life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if you go to the movies, you go during the day.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because at night, you're at the clubs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're doing three sets a night.
Marc:No, I understand it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know you've had your dalliances with funny women.
Guest:So I think that, you know... What do you know?
Marc:Oh, I know.
Marc:What kind of research did you do?
Marc:I married one, but she didn't stay in the business.
Marc:But I've dated a couple.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it makes sense.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The only difficult thing about it is that, you know, there is sort of a point where...
Marc:someone's going to overshadow the other one.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And, you know, to be supportive effectively becomes difficult when your egos are involved or if opportunities are had by one or the other.
Marc:It just, it becomes a mess.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you find that?
Guest:Well, I think that, you know, it is complicated.
Guest:It's definitely a complicated situation.
Guest:And I always look at, you know, like the Academy Awards, you know, like when Julia Roberts won the Oscar and she was with, I think, Benjamin Bratt.
Guest:It's like I always watch them up on the Winners thing, and it's like, bye-bye relationship.
Guest:We'll see you a year from now.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I think it's just too hard.
Guest:And I think in having a successful relationship now, having someone who's not in the business really has worked better for me.
Marc:Yeah, it's better, especially if they don't even give a shit about it in some level, that you're just who you are, and you have your job, and they're not hung up on that guy or this guy, or you sit in front of the TV going, oh, fuck, look at that.
Marc:Why does that guy get in that?
Guest:Yeah, because it will get competitive like that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's the worst.
Marc:It can't help but.
Marc:So you did two series, right, that you created?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:After Seinfeld.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And one ran for a little while.
Marc:What happened with those?
Guest:One of them was called All Right Already.
Marc:Yeah, which I always liked because I thought it was so dewy yet slightly coded.
Yeah.
Guest:Super Cody Jewy.
Guest:You know what I'm saying, though.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was on the WB.
Marc:And you starred in it, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And it ran for a season, and it's something I'm still very proud of, even though it didn't go beyond one season.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I feel kind of...
Guest:You know, Garth Ancier at the time was the head of WB, and I felt a little bit of vindication that I saw him at a party at Max Munchnik's, like, a couple years ago, and he really was, he'd had a lot to drink, and Garth Ancier came over and said, I'm so sorry about canceling.
Guest:Really?
Guest:All right already, yeah.
Guest:And I was like, Garth, even though you've had a couple of cocktails, I'll take that to the bank, you know?
Guest:Like, that made me feel really good.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:But, you know, it was really fun.
Guest:I...
Guest:had a great writing staff and I thought we put on you know made some great shows and Jerry Adler played my father and Mitzi McCall was my mom and you know Amy Yazbek and you know some great people in it um but um you know you just you you just go on
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I don't, what was the reason?
Marc:Was it just a viewership reason?
Guest:Yeah, they said that, you know, the ratings weren't high enough.
Guest:I mean, I look back now, it's kind of like what some of the Thursday night comedies on NBC get.
Guest:Yeah, right, yeah.
Guest:but um you know there's so much you can't control in show business and that's once it's like you know grasshopper like once you get that yeah you control the things you can't control and the things you can't control like just say you know what the fuck yeah exactly uh that you just or else you're just gonna be yeah the heartbreak is unbearable right over and over again yeah and then there was another one right
Guest:And then I co-created Ellen DeGeneres' second sitcom with the brilliant Mitch Hurwitz of Arrested Development.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And that was a good experience, but also a weird time in the... Ellen had lost her other show.
Guest:She'd kind of been pummeled about that, about coming out.
Guest:And then a year later went on to do her talk show.
Marc:Which is huge.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she got a lot of love there.
Marc:Were you out then?
Guest:I wasn't out only because I was more behind the scenes.
Guest:It wasn't until my book came out that I really started to do the round of doing Letterman and all the big talk shows again that I started to talk about it because I talk about it in my book.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, before we get into that, your relationship with Letterman, I mean, you were on a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like you and Richard were on a lot.
Guest:25 times.
Marc:And you were, what was your relationship with him?
Marc:Did you have a relationship with him off screen or was it just... I did.
Guest:We had a very good friendship.
Guest:I was lucky that he came to the comic strip one night when I was performing.
Guest:I had heard after the fact he was there.
Guest:But it literally led to my going on the show.
Guest:And when I went on his show, he said to me after the NBC, more relaxed vibe, like anytime you have a set, Carol, I want you to come on the show.
Guest:And that was enormously helpful to me, you know, in the 80s to go on and do that many.
Guest:And we hung out a little bit and we're friends.
Guest:And he also executive produced another special that I did called Carol Doesn't Leave Her Anymore for Cinemax.
Guest:And it's so funny, you know, Cinemax.
Guest:Now your head goes to like, oh, is it a soft core porn flick?
Guest:No, it was a comedy special.
Guest:So he was very helpful to me.
Marc:But you haven't done it lately?
Guest:I did for my book.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Was it fun?
Guest:It was amazing.
Marc:Because sometimes when you aren't as close to somebody anymore, it's very emotional to do the shows.
Guest:You know, it was because I hadn't done it in so many years.
Guest:But it was very... It really...
Guest:You know, came together great and the appearance went very well, which I was happy about.
Guest:And, you know, it's a different world.
Guest:I mean, he's not as accessible as he was way back when and hanging out in the halls and the makeup room going over his cards and talking to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but that kind of shit happens.
Guest:But...
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I mean if people out there go to my website caroleeford.com.
Guest:I have my reel there and it's all the big shows that I did this past year and my Letterman clip is on there too.
Marc:Did you get some big laughs?
Guest:I did.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Can you imagine that would be the worst thing?
Guest:You go back to doing Letterman after not being there for so many years and then you go and it blows.
Marc:It would be horrible.
Marc:But he's so like, he's such a class act and he's such a weirdo.
Marc:It's so great.
Marc:I mean, I always watched him when I was in college.
Marc:I was, I've been with him since the beginning.
Marc:So when I did that show and I didn't get to talk to him really, and I don't know him, but to me that was, that's the greatest sort of prize of doing, you know, that, that's just to be there with him and have him like you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Seems such like it's such a big deal.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Did you, you did Carson too though, right?
Guest:I did, but I only did it once.
Marc:Did you feel that with him?
Guest:You know, it was a really funny kind of story to me.
Guest:And I think about it a lot in my show business career because I kind of feel like I got my tenacity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I think you have to have a lot of in show business through this Tonight Show story because they turned me down.
Guest:letterman recommended me to the tonight show and they turned me down for it was it's 10 years and it was going on for this guy jim mccauley endlessly and each time trying to like you know mix it up like oh i'll wear a dress this time or i'll do this stuff or whatever and each time and i would do well and i was like no no no and finally i'd just been on letterman so many times it was like they couldn't kind of deny me right
Guest:And I finally got to go on in February before Carson retired in May.
Guest:So it was very surreal because I'd never done the show, and I only did it that one time, but sitting on the panel with him, and he had a very, and I don't think it was as apparent as a viewer, kind of a manic energy, like that pencil thing, that drumming, like being next to it, it was like 100 times that.
Guest:And I remember him commenting to me on one of my jokes,
Guest:Which was one of the bigger jokes in my act about, you know, I don't have any kids.
Guest:Well, at least none that I know about.
Guest:And he was drumming, drumming, and he turned to me and he said, that I don't have any kids thing, that's a good switch, good switch, you know.
Marc:Off camera?
Guest:uh yeah during the break oh but i was also on with bob newhart which was like holy this is perfect you know so um i don't know i i think of that a lot where because there's so much rejection in show business and it's like there just comes to a point where people just can't they can't deny you yeah you just you just win the race because you just hung in there yeah so i'm starting to feel that a little right
Marc:Well, when it comes right down to it, what else are you going to fucking do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's the weirdest moment is that, you know, I mean, it seems that you've worked pretty steadily either writing or performing.
Marc:But when you get down to that moment where you're like, fuck, like, what if I really had to change trajectory of life?
Marc:I have no idea.
Marc:What am I?
Marc:I mean, the last job I had, I was a cook in college at a restaurant making sandwiches.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Am I going to go back to that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do anything before?
Guest:um because you we started in college i did start in college i had a job when i passed uh when i moved to the city i was a secretary for a private investigator yeah for a very long time long enough to about a year any good stories or short you know what it was mark it was people who had to take lie detector tests to work at either burger king or an escort service
Guest:so i operated this thing called a dictaphone yeah which was just doing transcripts yeah all day so i was in kind of my little bubble of work and my boss was nice and he would let me work from 11 to 6 without a lunch so i could work late but that was like basically it and then you know that's what i mean like the kinship among comics like you know at that time where you didn't you could give up your day job and i remember doing jersey gigs for like 40 bucks cash and that was like oh my
Marc:God, that's so much money.
Marc:Driving an hour.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And working with another dude, like opening or whatever.
Guest:Yeah, completely.
Guest:And it was like, I found the Holy Grail.
Guest:I'm a working comic.
Marc:And you were a big comic.
Marc:Like in the 80s, you toured a lot.
Guest:I did.
Marc:I mean, you were part of that whole...
Marc:boom of comedy so you know all those clubs you've been through all the fucking like i just played the comedy works in denver for the first time how was that it was great yeah have you been there i haven't in a long time but it's the same place it's in that basement i've been hearing about it for 20 years wow and it was uh it was exciting
Guest:Now, do you get people... Because when I go to clubs now, I like to structure the show.
Guest:I like to bring someone to open for me because I don't like any wild cards.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:The weird host.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The weird host or the middle who is so filthy and then I go up and I try to do my thing and it just is not working.
Guest:So do you... You just...
Marc:I've been bringing, I bring a guy sometimes.
Marc:And sometimes I just kind of, there's always, I think that it's karma sometimes to have a middle that, you know, puts it, makes it tough for you.
Marc:Because I think I did that a bit when I middled.
Marc:And sometimes I see it as like, if I had a five out of six shows, if the guy gets one over on me, then all right, I'm paying some sort of karmic debt.
Marc:But I do bring a guy with me who I like to be with.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Marc:You know, because it's more about hanging out than it is on stage.
Marc:Like, you know, everybody stuck something at a club with somebody you can't stand.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I have that moment.
Marc:So.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So let's the transition from because you're writing on a show now or you aren't.
Marc:You are.
Guest:I'm not writing on a show, but I have sold two scripts recently.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:For half hours.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, one for me not to be in.
Guest:That's actually something I would just executive produce and write.
Guest:And the other one for me to star in.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And who'd you sell it to?
Guest:I can't say because they're so uptight about they have to, you know.
Marc:And what's the role?
Marc:Is it as you?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Me as me as Carol Liefer and comedian and living my life, having a partner, you know, not having a kid, but and kind of.
Guest:you know my kind of curb oh that's well that's great so single camera kind of uh-huh oh that's interesting yes that's going to be great yeah i hope it comes together it's going to happen definitely or i hope so i just you know i can't say what network is just that you know troy miller is going to do it with me too he read it and loved it and he did what
Marc:he does everything yeah he's very big writer producer so let's talk about the transition from uh from straight carol to not straight carol okay um in that i don't think i've had that conversation uh with anybody maybe a girlfriend that you know but at the time i was like what do you mean is it me so so it was a different conversation yeah uh than talking to somebody that had this happen
Marc:Sort of later in life.
Marc:And were you surprised by it?
Marc:I was.
Marc:I was completely surprised.
Marc:Completely surprised.
Marc:Because you were married to a pretty manly man.
Guest:Not only married to a manly man, but my relationship with Scheidner was basically about sex.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I know, you know, I'm not...
Guest:i'm mindful of not speaking out of school you know with him right yeah but um it was a that was it you know we didn't drugs and sex drugs and sex and then he got sober i know that yeah yeah yeah and i didn't um need to get sober but um you know i mean crazy shit with just the 80s doing acid and i remember mark schiff was performing down at garvin's in dc and we took some acid shifted or you and scheidener
Guest:Me and Shidener and a guy named Michael Caine, who's actually since passed on, but we took some acid and flew down.
Guest:He took the train to DC and we flew down to be there in the front row when he got on.
Guest:Just to flip him out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, I look back on it now.
Guest:It did.
Guest:And we brought pies and threw it in his face.
Marc:And he's gone on to become a very orthodox Jew.
Guest:Isn't that funny?
Marc:Well, it's weird how people, you know, what transitions they make later in life to sort of, you know, that everybody seems to be on a search whether they know it or not.
Marc:You know, I think the comics, I know for myself that you're really looking somehow to be true to yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, you find this persona that works on stage and you have this access to honesty that gets a very immediate response.
Marc:But sometimes you sort of surprise yourself where it's sort of like, part of what drives us is we're never quite comfortable or we wouldn't be up there fucking doing that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then all of a sudden something happens.
Marc:If you're lucky, then you really become yourself and whatever.
Marc:It's just odd how people end up sober, radically Jewish, gay, whatever.
Marc:You come around to some realization where peace of mind and happiness become important.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So how did that happen?
Guest:So, you know, I never felt, you know, like I was hiding my sexuality.
Guest:I mean, I really had good relationships with men, good sex with men.
Guest:It was all working.
Guest:It's just that I went to this Project Angel Food event.
Marc:Wait, what is that?
Guest:It's a great organization.
Guest:They bring meals to housebound AIDS patients, and they're here in L.A., and they're great.
Guest:And I was a guest at a table, and I looked across from me, and there's this woman who was with her girlfriend at the time, but she was absolutely gorgeous, and I really found myself totally attracted to her and having this mad crush on her.
Guest:And I think it was interesting, too, that I made it like a chance.
Guest:I didn't give a shit that she was this other woman.
Guest:I was like, what the fuck?
Yeah.
Marc:Was this your first woman crush?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so it was pretty powerful.
Guest:So I tried to, through friends, kind of hook it up, but she was, like, not interested, and she told my friend, I'm not going to be this experiment for a straight woman, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, like, she called me to play golf, which is another thing that, like, hello, didn't think you were gay.
Guest:And we...
Guest:You know, met for golf.
Guest:You play golf?
Guest:We play golf together.
Marc:Do you play golf?
Guest:I do.
Guest:We do.
Guest:She's really good.
Guest:I'm not as good.
Marc:But, I mean, when she asked you to play golf, were you a golfer?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Yeah, I had just started.
Guest:Actually, Larry David got me golf lessons for that year for my birthday, which was very sweet.
Guest:Thanks for making me a lesbian.
Guest:laugh but anyway I really thought this is going to be my chic lesbian fling and wow I'm cool and this was fun and I just fell in love with her and it really was this kind of realization of not only is this like working physically it's like emotionally this is working in a way that it didn't before for me and it's like almost 15 years later
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So like working like like not like before, because I'm just trying to think that it just seems like the dynamic that that I experience in relationships as a comic, you know, real intimacy is tricky.
Marc:And the trust involved is, I don't think, natural for comedians.
Marc:So, I mean, did you find that when you when you made that?
Guest:relationship happened that because it was a woman that you were able not to be as guarded or like what do you do you ever psychoanalyze it you know that's a really really good question mark because I don't know what it is about her whether it's her as her or just her as a woman that made
Guest:the relationship realer and deeper than it had been before with men.
Guest:And I mean, I do know that 15 years into it, of all the ups and downs about relationships, you need to be, you have to be honest with each other and the trust is based on the honesty.
Guest:When I hear about some people's relationships and the secrets that one has from the other about something that happened, it's like I don't get how they keep it together because to me that's like the bottom line.
Marc:One of you is living a lie.
Guest:you know when you're in that kind of situation um i mean i know women who've had like abortions there of the guy's baby and have never told them and wound up marrying them it's like what the and they're still holding on to that secret yeah like how do you have a real relationship with someone if you're hiding stuff as giant as that yeah i don't know but i don't know what
Guest:clicked for me with her but whatever did click it clicked you know in a big way and it was very you know it's like a joke about it my act like you know I went to gay bookstores for help like yeah do you have a copy of what the fuck just happened to me you know you know it was head spinning this kind of I can't imagine it really like you never it was not something that you acknowledged as being latent in you before
Guest:You know, I felt myself attracted to women visually in certain ways, but I'd had a, you know, threesome back in my drug-fueled early days with a woman and a guy, and, you know, it was fun, the sex with a woman, but I didn't feel like...
Guest:holy shit okay i'm gay yeah it was like oh that was fun but i'd like to move back now to cock yeah yeah this was good yeah i'm gonna go home to cock yeah um so that's what was so surprising to me yeah do you miss cock you know what honestly what i miss about
Guest:uh being with a man seriously is the uh bigness of a man like being held by a man right embraced right and that bigness well you can get that still i guess if i wanted to just a cheesy big squeeze from but you know what i mean that the size because my partner is petite and smaller than me so i yeah
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:So, you know, the cock or the mentality, all that?
Marc:No, just the physicality.
Guest:The cock, you know, it comes with a lot of bullshit.
Yeah.
Guest:There's a lot of bullshit involved.
Marc:That goes both ways.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Vagina's got its issues.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Cock's got its own.
Marc:But in all honesty, though, having been in a long term relationship, I have to assume that a relationship is a relationship.
Marc:You're going to go through everything you go through in any other relationship.
Marc:I don't want to be like, you know, people listen to me sometimes and I get flack, you know, for identifying gender difference or race difference.
Marc:But I mean, it is different.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But but ultimately, it's just people.
Guest:It is ultimately just people and sex is its own thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Whether it's a man or a woman.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And relationships are hard.
Guest:They're certainly, you know, I don't know anybody who just breezes through their relationship.
Guest:It takes work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think ultimately it's a very satisfying, you know, thing.
Guest:I like being...
Marc:in a couple and how long have you been in your couple right now well this one's gotten pretty uh it was we went through a really gnarly horrible breakup panic thing because i've been divorced twice and the last one hurt bad and i've done a lot of acting out because of it and i was not in any way prepared to engage in uh in being in love or or having that or or even addressing intimacy because it was too i'm too paranoid you were married in mishnah right yeah
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:You know her from book things.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And well, she's got a baby now.
Marc:I know she's got a baby now and whatever.
Marc:And I'm really just starting to be able to sort of deal with it.
Marc:I mean, you know, my the hurt.
Marc:The thing about being left is it's like you don't really have a choice.
Marc:I mean, that's a horrible to realize you don't have control over.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And.
Marc:So it took a long time, but when I started with this one, it was all crazy because I'm crazy and I attract crazy people.
Marc:And then it got really, it blew up in the worst, most dramatic way possible.
Marc:And then after three months, I'm like, I want to try again.
Marc:So that's sort of behind it.
Marc:So I knew how bad it got.
Marc:And it got bad enough for me to be afraid of it.
Guest:Well, that shows that it has some durability.
Marc:Well, now we're both afraid of that.
Yeah.
Marc:Does she live with you here?
Marc:No.
Marc:So a healthy amount of fear is okay.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:I'm a childless man at 47.
Marc:And people say, well, you could have a kid.
Marc:I'm like, do I want one?
Marc:I mean, you have a kid.
Guest:I have a kid.
Guest:How old?
Guest:I have my kid late.
Marc:How old?
Marc:My kid is five.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And who had the kid?
Guest:We adopted him from Guatemala.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And is that great?
Yeah.
Guest:It is pretty great.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would really recommend if, you know, you have to be ready for children yourself, obviously, first.
Guest:But I recommend it to, you know, anybody who thinks they might be too old or whatever.
Guest:It's like I think having a kid, you know, older is been great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I could do it at this age.
Guest:I never thought I'd have kids.
Guest:My partner, you know, started the discussion of wanting to do it.
Guest:And I kind of went along for the ride, and it's like, wow, am I really glad that I went along for the ride.
Marc:Is there a big age difference between you and your partner?
Guest:I'm seven years older than her.
Marc:That's not bad.
Guest:No, it's not bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what did your mom, the shrink, think of all this?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:This is, I think, the beauty of Judaism, Mark, okay?
Marc:Please tell me what it is.
Guest:It is.
Guest:This is why I love my faith.
Guest:I love my tribe.
Guest:You know, when this whole thing happened, I mean, with falling in love with my partner, Lori,
Guest:I didn't go home until about a year to talk to my parents about it because you want to make sure it's real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's another thing for my act.
Guest:You know, I didn't want to pull an Anne Heche.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:So I went home and I really thought the way I, you know, my picture of it was that I'm going to be the rock and my parents are going to be the basket cases.
Guest:And as life shows you, what you picture many times, the opposite happens.
Guest:And I was the basket case.
Guest:I was emotional about it.
Guest:My parents were very cool about it.
Guest:My mother was like, look, love is a gift from God.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:This is great news.
Guest:Why are you upset?
Guest:And I remember my father, my beautiful father's name and Carol, you know, why are you crying?
Guest:And I said, you know, Dad, because I thought you would be disappointed.
Guest:And my father said, disappointed?
Guest:I'll tell you when I was disappointed when you married that Shagitz.
Yeah.
Marc:you know so the fact that laurie is jewish was like the trump card hello yeah let's get the manischewitz and do the horror she's with a jew now no kidding yeah that's very touching yeah it really is i mean you know because what what what do you do can you identify that baggage that you brought to that thing other than just disappointment i mean were you
Marc:I mean, because that's heavy.
Marc:You thought that they were more traditional or that they were expecting something from you.
Guest:I just think when you come out, you have to face that thing of... My parents obviously were sorry that my first marriage didn't work, but they see you.
Guest:They saw me with a guy and having kids and having that life and just being this...
Guest:You know, still you, but a different you, you know.
Guest:And I love this person.
Guest:And she's a woman.
Guest:Also, the parents of my generation is still very, you know, disconcerting.
Guest:So that was the hard, I think the hard, most difficult part for me.
Guest:But just when I saw that they were like...
Guest:Look, it's you when you're in love.
Guest:What's bad?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's really something.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that must be a fairly sort of empowering story to tell, I would think, to groups of people that have been through this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, look, we could sit here and talk for another hour about the difference between gay men and, you know, gay women in terms of just sexuality.
Guest:Like, I think men know...
Marc:instinctively what their sexuality is it's not on such a you know continuum like it is with women where a woman you know can be with men and then be with women you know that's pretty um and also i think like from an outsider's point point of view it seems that the gay male community is is you know at different points in its history as a community very defined specifically by the sexuality right and
Marc:And that women, you know, just gay women, by virtue of the fact that that gay community was already established, had sort of had to be aligned with that.
Marc:And I don't think it's the same.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I think also a woman saying that she, you know, fell in love with a woman, for parents, I think is easier to handle than a man falling in love with another man.
Guest:I think it's a little, still a little more of a little bit of a bridge too far.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I mean, I saw a really fascinating 2020, you know, where they do What Would You Do?
Guest:They set up the thing.
Guest:And they had two women with kids in a restaurant in Texas.
Guest:And the witch was like, I'm not going to serve you.
Guest:You know, you're a lesbian.
Guest:And the whole...
Guest:clientele and the restaurant like charge on this way she was like how dare you and you know you're a racist i mean you're homophobic and blah blah blah it was like mayhem they did the same thing with two men who came in with two kids and everyone said i'm not going to serve you and you're like you know most people didn't say anything and one guy was like gave her a thumbs up like covertly right you know there's still that huh a lot of prejudice there
Marc:Yeah, it's it's it's it's all sort of confounding because it's so threatening to people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Somehow that somehow they become very personally.
Marc:There's something implicating about it.
Marc:I'm not sure what it is because I don't understand how the first reaction is.
Marc:That's wrong.
Marc:Like I can understand the first reaction being like, I'm uncomfortable with it.
Marc:You know, you're going to react out of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the morality thing I don't get.
Marc:It's just baffling.
Marc:Now, how did some of the old guard of your comedy peers react?
Marc:Like Jerry and Larry and Paul?
Guest:You know, they were all... Any good jokes?
Guest:Great about it.
Guest:Well, my straight male friends, you know, were the most supportive, of course, because they were like, you know...
Guest:I want to hear everything slowly and in great detail.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:I remember Seinfeld saying to me, I think I will be your only male friend who is not sexually titillated by this.
Guest:But, you know, I don't know.
Marc:Again, this is why I'm uncomfortable with him.
Marc:Yeah, that's number two on the list.
Guest:No, I know.
Marc:He's being nice.
Marc:That was a good joke.
Guest:No, they were all... Everybody was great.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And Larry... Are you still friends with Larry Miller?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:I can't imagine the sort of strange kind of...
Marc:Awkward, but very genuine reaction he had.
Guest:He is, like I said, I have a really different relationship.
Guest:They are like brothers.
Guest:And I feel we just did a temple.
Guest:We did the University of Judaism together in December, a little holiday show.
Guest:You and Larry?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was great.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I always feel like like going back to what we said at the beginning of the trust and especially with these guys that I came up with for 30 almost 35 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know I'll always know them in a different way than I know any other comics per se.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we shared so much.
Marc:Do you feel that comedy has changed at all, or it's just gotten bigger?
Marc:I mean, do you feel like that you have a different attitude towards whatever's happening now in comedy?
Marc:Because I think it was a much more intimate business when you started.
Guest:It was, but I think the great equalizer, and tell me if you agree with me or disagree...
Guest:I still think, you know, funny works.
Guest:And when you're not funny, it doesn't.
Guest:And it's like whatever I may like about certain comics or not like, it's like if they get the laughs and people are enjoying it, it's like they're doing it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I've grown to feel that way, too.
Guest:And the people who are the bright stars who kind of really don't have any legs, it's proven eventually that they don't have it.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:If you stay in it long enough, not only, like you said, well, eventually you'll get your shot, hopefully if you don't destroy yourself, but you also live long enough to see people go up and come down and then try to figure out what they're going to do next.
Marc:It's a long haul.
Marc:And all this, when you see the sort of bravado that comes with somebody rising...
Marc:that you just sort of like, why, I hope, you know.
Marc:Sit tight.
Marc:Yeah, because there's only a handful of dudes that, you know, made the, you know, and you know a lot of them that, you know, the one thing that I admired about Paul when I talked to him was that, you know, after he made all that money and he did his run, he was like, yeah, I'm going to relax.
Marc:I'm going to raise my kid.
Marc:You know, I'm going to live a quality of life that I'm enabled to by this tremendous success and I'm going to enjoy it.
Marc:You don't talk to many people like that.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:And he really is, I think of all the funny people I've known over my amazing life and career, he's like still one of the funniest.
Guest:I mean, one-on-one in a group, the funniest guy ever.
Guest:He's just, it's so in him, that spark, you know?
Guest:He's just so good.
Marc:Yeah, and I think he really got outside, because I gravitated towards him as well after I saw Diner and before I'd done comedy.
Marc:I thought he had a very interesting timing, and he was very quick, and he was kind of soft and very charming.
Marc:And, you know, he wasn't not overbearing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was always sort of like, you know, I'm just thinking about something.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:You know?
Marc:And I think he was also fortunate that he was a good-looking guy.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:You know, and that had a lot to do with, like, you know, his ability to kind of really manifest a movie career and everything else.
Marc:Because Louis C.K.
Marc:once said to me years ago, he's like, you know, we were walking down the street in the Lower East Side.
Marc:He's like, I just want to get on Letterman before I lose all my hair and get really fat.
Marc:And he was so mad about somebody in the business because he's like, comedy was for us, the ugly guys.
Right.
Marc:But Paul was an attractive guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But but, you know, even that that's what I love about comedy, too.
Guest:You know, I love Louis show.
Guest:And like when I watch it, it makes me feel good about the state of the art.
Guest:And I was just flying back from New York, you know, this Sunday.
Guest:And I'd never seen the show episodes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I watch it and it's fucking great.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Oh, the Louis C.K.
Marc:show?
Guest:No, Episodes is the one with Matt LeBlanc and Showtime show.
Guest:I kind of watched it reluctantly.
Guest:It's like, oh, my God, it's really fucking good.
Marc:Yeah, I think that a lot of things get missed now because of the media landscape.
Marc:I mean, even Julia Louis-Dreyfus' show, she is such an amazing comic actress.
Marc:I mean, I fell on a plane.
Marc:Like, I don't find myself watching at home, but the new old Christine stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's just so fucking funny.
Guest:Yeah, that show I thought was great.
Marc:Yeah, and that guy who plays her husband.
Marc:Were you friends with her?
Guest:Yeah, you know, I mean, when you work on that show, it was, I know that, you know, most people think you're together all the time.
Guest:It's like, you're really with the writers all the time.
Guest:You know, you're in the cast.
Marc:In the room, hammering out stories.
Guest:I mean, that's what made me laugh, I'm sure, all of us so much about the Charlie Sheen thing.
Guest:It's like, you have the dream job.
Guest:You're an actor on a sitcom, not even a drama.
Guest:You work for...
Guest:Two hours every day, and you're paid this much.
Guest:It was the dream job.
Guest:But that was true about the cast, too.
Guest:I mean, it's like lightning in a bottle to get those four together and set up the team that Larry and Jerry did.
Marc:Are you friends with Michael Richards?
Guest:I haven't seen Michael.
Guest:I mean, I like Michael.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because he was sort of a comic, you know, originally.
Marc:Wasn't he?
Guest:He was.
Guest:But he was out here, though.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he was on Fridays with Larry David.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So that's how that goes.
Marc:Yeah, he's an odd guy.
Marc:I don't know how to get in touch with him.
Marc:I try to talk to him.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I got to figure it out.
Marc:I still book this, you know, by virtue of, like, you know, how did I get hold of you on Facebook?
Facebook.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, Carol.
Guest:Yeah, same here.
Marc:The name of the book is If You Lie About Your Age.
Guest:When You Lie About Your Age.
Marc:When You Lie About Your Age.
Guest:The Terrorists Win.
Marc:And that's available, and you still do comedy, and you're working, and you're an inspiration.
Guest:Oh, that's sweet.
Marc:Yeah, I'm being honest.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Well, I really enjoyed it, but I knew I would because I've listened to your podcast and you're a comic.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:I mean, right there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Emmis.
Marc:Right there.
Marc:And a Jew.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And we didn't do a lot of Jewy stuff.
Marc:No.
Marc:That's good because I thought that might happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But we're Jews.
Guest:We're Jews.
Guest:We know that.
Marc:Enough said.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:That's our show, folks.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Did I just say, folks, that's our show, what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, people.
Marc:I'm sorry I'm so punchy.
Marc:I mean, I feel like I can barely talk.
Marc:I slept like three hours because I was packing and eating tortilla chips and watching television and tweeting when I should be sleeping.
Marc:But that's our show.
Marc:Please go.
Marc:And thank you, Carol Leifer.
Marc:What a lovely woman.
Marc:And what a fun time it was to talk to her.
Marc:And go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Please get on the mailing list.
Marc:I'm about to write an update right after I say this.
Marc:Get on that mailing list.
Marc:I do email you guys every Monday.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:Upload to the premium app.
Marc:Listen to all of the episodes from episode one.
Marc:You can get an app for an iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Droid.
Marc:You can get a desktop app.
Marc:And with that upgrade, you can stream every episode.
Marc:Obviously, the most recent 50 are always free.
Marc:Kick in some shekels.
Marc:We are still, you know, listener supported, even though it sounds like we're running a big operation over here.
Marc:I'm still in my garage.
Marc:I'm still sweating.
Marc:I'm making a living.
Marc:But that's part of it.
Marc:If you want to support the show, if you kick in the $10 a month donation, I'll send you a t-shirt.
Marc:If you do, uh, there's other, you can donate whatever amount you want.
Marc:If you do the 250 super premium donation, I'll give you all four of my CDs.
Marc:Used to be three.
Marc:Now it's four.
Marc:A special best of WTF volume one, two t-shirts.
Marc:Yup.
Marc:Stickers.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:How about a button?
Marc:I got buttons.
Marc:Did I mention that?
Marc:I got buttons.
Marc:Love Buttons.
Marc:I'm at Hilarities this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Marc:That is August 25, 26, 27, 28 in Cleveland, Ohio.
Marc:Who wants a button?
Marc:Anyone want a button?
Marc:You can go to busybeaver.net slash WTF right now and get a free limited edition Glow in the Dark with Marc Maron Button.
Marc:glow-in-the-dark with Marc Maron button?
Marc:How about a glow-in-the-dark WTF with Marc Maron button for free?
Marc:First 500 people, get on it.
Marc:BusyBeaver.net.
Marc:Also, go there and order your buttons.
Marc:You can get buttons for anything.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:Holy fuck, I'm all buttoned out.
Marc:Stan Hope on Thursday.