Episode 2 - Jim Earl / Matthew Weiss
Marc:Lock the gates!
Guest 3:Are we doing this?
Guest 3:Really?
Guest 3:Wait for it.
Guest 3:Are we doing this?
Guest 3:Wait for it.
Guest 3:Pow!
Guest 3:What the fuck?
Guest 3:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest 3:What's wrong with me?
Guest 3:It's time for WTF!
Guest 4:What the fuck?
Guest 4:With Mark Maron.
Marc:all right folks this is it yes this is wtf i am mark maron we do ask the question in several different tones i don't know how often i have to reiterate it but yes it is what the fuck and it's also what the fuck
Marc:not bad questions one is usually directed out the outside world the other is usually directed to the internal world depending sort of like yeah all right how much is this gonna hurt today's show we have the inimitable jim earl who many of you remember from uh morning sedition
Marc:Those of you who are seditionists, fans of the old radio show, haven't talked to Jim in a few years.
Marc:Looking forward to re-engaging.
Marc:Also on the show, we're going to be having an in-depth discussion, or at least engaged discussion about movies with Matthew Weiss, the filmmaker, and...
Marc:I guess he's my friend.
Marc:I think he is.
Marc:We're working on that.
Marc:And we'll also be discussing movies with the amazing Brendan McDonald, who I think is producing me even when I'm not here.
Marc:I don't know how that's possible, but there's some part of me that thinks like, I think Brendan's running everything here.
Marc:My building, my car.
Marc:I had to see if there's a problem.
Marc:I'm like, how come Brendan, literally, if something goes wrong in my building, I'm like, I guess I better call Brendan.
Marc:He's got to make some calls for me.
Marc:So Brendan will be here.
Marc:But first, I think I need to do a serious what the fuck story, because this is a dark time.
Marc:This is a time of transition for me.
Marc:I guess you could call me bitter.
Marc:I don't know that I would call it that.
Marc:Perhaps disappointed sometimes.
Marc:Perhaps my sense of entitlement is not completely reasonable.
Marc:Maybe I don't have a clear idea of who I am and how I fit into the big picture.
Marc:I do know that I've been doing this a long time with a very specific voice that I can't seem to shake.
Marc:When people say maybe I should be more accessible or maybe I should talk about things that are a little more general or maybe I should lighten the fuck up.
Marc:There's part of me that wants to.
Marc:I don't always know how to do it.
Marc:I've established a way of doing things that I seem committed to, but it doesn't seem that accessible.
Marc:I certainly appreciate all you people that have been listening to me for years and support me and enjoy what I do.
Marc:But there's part of me that wishes there were more of you.
Marc:And I'm not judging you guys.
Marc:Maybe I'm just one of those people.
Marc:Maybe I'm like a pop band that never really pops, but somehow or another gets some respect in the long run.
Marc:My ex-wife used to say to me, Mark, you're just the kind of guy.
Marc:You're just not going to be famous until you're dead.
Marc:And I guess that's a nice thing to say.
Marc:I don't know if that was leading up to her killing me or leaving me.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's not really what I want because how can I enjoy that?
Marc:But the issue is, is that I find myself, even given my sensibility and given the fact that I have chosen a rough road to hoe, that I seek opportunity and I like to be patronized.
Marc:Is that the word?
Marc:I like a patron.
Marc:I like to be subsidized.
Marc:I like to work for somebody that's going to write me a check.
Marc:I mean, it worked out well with Air America for the first three shows I did.
Marc:I had all the freedom in the world to talk about whatever I wanted to talk about, and I was paid for it.
Marc:That's a rare thing, and I'm grateful for it.
Marc:But now I'm out in the wilderness again, and now I'm doing a podcast.
Marc:Now you're listening to WTF with me, Marc Maron, and I don't know how to monetize this.
Marc:I don't know how to take these kind of risks.
Marc:I'm not an entrepreneur.
Marc:It took me a long time to realize that Hollywood wasn't my parents.
Marc:So what I'm saying is the big what the fuck for me is what the fuck is going on in my career?
Marc:Why can't I just fit in somewhere?
Marc:Why can't I find my niche?
Marc:And in these dark times in between gigs where I'm not doing what I need to do to put my brand out there because of my fundamental insecurity, which is a plague of anybody who is talented.
Marc:People who are really successful and are capable of selling themselves are usually mediocre.
Marc:That's just the truth.
Marc:Because if they have that kind of confidence, they must be lacking in talent.
Marc:Or else they're using all their talent to do that.
Marc:So whatever the product is, they're just able to shove it into your heads in such a way that you jump on board.
Marc:Or maybe it's just safe and that's what people want.
Marc:That has not been my experience.
Marc:So now in one of these dark times, one of these gray areas where I don't know what's going to happen next and I'm doing what I can to get some things going, I'm taking meetings, which is what happens in Los Angeles when you look at it as a business.
Marc:Most people, they take a lot of meetings.
Marc:They come up with a lot of ideas.
Marc:They go a lot of places.
Marc:They try to sell their ideas.
Marc:For me, everything is a life or death situation.
Marc:My ideas are usually organic.
Marc:They relate to my life.
Marc:And if they get rejected, all I hear is like, Mark Maron, you stink.
Marc:You're not good enough.
Marc:Thank you for telling your story.
Marc:You sad bastard.
Marc:Good luck with everything.
Marc:Be in touch.
Marc:Oh, yeah, you're a genius.
Marc:Keep doing what you're doing out there for whoever you do it for.
Marc:But we can't let you in here because there's no way we can sell that shit to a bunch of morons.
Marc:Okay, maybe I'm making stuff up.
Marc:But I go out to Los Angeles.
Marc:I re-engage with my management.
Marc:I go, look, I got a sitcom idea.
Marc:And then I got an idea for this show.
Marc:It's called WTF.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And basically that's the theme of the show.
Marc:That's the show we're doing here, but I was also trying to sell it to television.
Marc:The sitcom idea was different.
Marc:I meet at NBC.
Marc:I pitch him this idea about how I'm a dad.
Marc:I'm a dad who's been married twice, has no relationship with his son, goes broke, gets into trouble, has to move in with his son that doesn't know him.
Marc:So you got sort of an odd couple thing.
Marc:You got your exterior characters are the two ex-wives, one being his mother.
Marc:The kid doesn't like me.
Marc:He's got friends.
Marc:Why is your dad here?
Marc:You know, that kind of thing.
Marc:It was a good meeting.
Marc:Got some laughs.
Marc:Then I got a call from my management.
Marc:Yeah, they already have two stories like that in development.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:Is that the zeitgeist?
Marc:Or are they just lying and now somebody's writing my story?
Marc:Someone they already had on the payroll.
Marc:I don't need to go there.
Marc:So I go to another meeting out of Comedy Central.
Marc:I pitch what the fuck.
Marc:It's me and a female host.
Marc:We have a contentious relationship.
Marc:We just run through stories with the what the fuck theme and a couple other elements.
Marc:Everybody loves it.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Sounds good.
Marc:We'll get back to you.
Marc:Haven't heard back.
Marc:Then my management says, we're taking you to E. E?
Marc:What the fuck is E?
Marc:Does anyone even watch that?
Marc:What is that network?
Marc:I know that's where Chelsea Handler is.
Marc:I have my own personal issues with her, but I'd never watched her show.
Marc:I'd interviewed her on one of our radio shows.
Marc:That didn't matter.
Marc:But here I was, I'm going into E and I've never watched the network.
Marc:So I put on E and I watched two hours of E and I could not figure out how it made me feel.
Marc:I couldn't figure it out.
Marc:I knew I was being assaulted.
Marc:I knew that I was being punched in the face by sound and image.
Marc:I knew there was a lot of things being referred to that I had no idea what they were.
Marc:The best analogy I came up with was it felt like my brain was being ass raped by clowns.
Marc:I don't even know why that fits, but it seems to work for me.
Marc:And I feel the same way with commercials, though it's getting off the beaten path a little bit, but I have a big television now.
Marc:I
Marc:hook it up to a big sound system I watch television on it but when the commercials come on it's almost as if some hands are reaching out of the screen grabbing me by the collar and saying listen to me buy this you idiot buy it I'm not going to let you go do you buy it and I'm just sitting there going when is my show going to come back on where's the mute button let go of me let go of me
Marc:So I watched E and I had roughly that same feeling.
Marc:And now I'm going into pitch to E. I'm led into the waiting room and I feel like I am in the bowels of Leviathan.
Marc:I'd never felt something as tangibly satanic as E. Okay.
Marc:In the way that this is a network that shamelessly panders to tabloid sensibility and, and elevates the comings and goings and tits and tats of bullshit celebrity culture.
Marc:Who gives a fuck?
Marc:Seriously, how is that not part of the problem?
Marc:I've never seen an agenda for a network that is more like just a 24-hour channel of someone dangling keys going, look at the keys.
Marc:Look, that's what they're playing to.
Marc:Infantilizing all of us.
Marc:So I'm knowing this and I'm sitting there and I'm with my management and they're selling that thing where it's like, Hey, you know, look, if you can be yourself and they let you have your voice and you do what you do, I mean, it could really get you more road work.
Marc:It can, you know, you can, you can, you can rise above it.
Marc:You don't have to do anything different except put on this dress.
Marc:I think that's a Bill Hicks joke, isn't it?
Marc:Where he says, yeah, go do whatever you want to do, but wait, put this dress on or put on this makeup, put on this wig.
Marc:It's Sam's?
Marc:Sam Kennison's?
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Well, I don't want to steal anyone's jokes, so I'm referencing somebody.
Marc:It's one of those great comics.
Marc:Thank you, Matthew Weiss.
Marc:So I'm knowing this, and I'm sitting there, and I'm like, all right, well, maybe if I can pitch a show, it'll work out.
Marc:So I go pitch a show.
Marc:I'm in this room with three women.
Marc:They're all very nice.
Marc:Everyone's nice there.
Marc:It's show business, and that's what I keep saying to myself.
Marc:What do you expect, Mark?
Marc:You're not auditioning for the Nobel Peace Prize?
Marc:Do they have auditions for that?
No.
Marc:It's just not, it's show business.
Marc:There's no moral structure.
Marc:There's no context.
Marc:There's no barometers of integrity.
Marc:It's show business.
Marc:So now all of a sudden I'm rationalizing it.
Marc:Now I'm like, well, I don't got a gig.
Marc:Maybe they'll like my idea.
Marc:This is show business.
Marc:This is work.
Marc:This is how it works.
Marc:Why am I so hard on myself?
Marc:So I pitched this show to these three women and they're loving it.
Marc:They love the show.
Marc:And then one of them starts talking.
Marc:Well, look, you know, we had Chelsea on and I honestly, I watched Chelsea Handler very good at what she does.
Marc:She's funny.
Marc:She's crass.
Marc:She knows her parameters.
Marc:She's good at it.
Marc:But here's the problem.
Marc:They start talking.
Marc:They're like, look, you know, you can be what you want to be.
Marc:You can be yourself.
Marc:But, you know, we do here.
Marc:We do.
Marc:You know, we talk about show business.
Marc:And I'm just saying that, look, you know, you can talk about Kim Kardashian, but we have to respect Kim Kardashian because she's on the network.
Marc:So, you know, Chelsea talks about Kim Kardashian and you just have to figure out where the line is.
Marc:And I'm listening to her.
Marc:And in my head, all I'm thinking is who the fuck is Kim Kardashian?
Marc:I have no idea who she is.
Marc:But I don't say that.
Marc:I say, of course, absolutely.
Marc:I would never do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm starting to feel that queasiness.
Marc:Like there's this can't be where I end up.
Marc:I have too much on the line.
Marc:I'm too proud.
Marc:I have integrity.
Marc:I have about, you know, 1200 people that respect me.
Marc:I would probably lose them only to gain maybe, you know, 30,000 other people that don't understand me who I will surprise in person and they will be disappointed.
Marc:So I go, I'm in the meeting and it's going fine.
Marc:And my two managers, then the woman who runs E, Lisa Berger, who has known me since I was a kid because she used to be at MTV and I did a comedy show for MTV maybe 15, 20 years ago.
Marc:I haven't seen her in 15 years, but, you know, we had a relationship.
Marc:I knew her.
Marc:We all hung out at that time.
Marc:She walks in.
Marc:She's like, oh, my God, Mark Maron's here.
Marc:Mark Maron's here.
Marc:And we hug and we kiss and we talk and, you know, we get with schmooze and they brief her on my idea.
Marc:I tell her a little about it and she's happy to see me.
Marc:And then she literally says, Mark, look, you know, I know who you are.
Marc:I know what you do.
Marc:You're a smart guy.
Marc:You talk about things.
Marc:Are you sure you want to be at E?
Marc:And I, of course, said, hey, look, I mean, if we can make it work, I mean, yeah, I mean, why not?
Marc:She goes, well, you do know that we don't talk.
Marc:You know, we're not going to be talking about Salman Rushdie's new book.
Marc:And so I said, does he have a new book out?
Marc:Everyone laughs.
Marc:And I wouldn't talk about Salman Rushdie's new book anyways.
Marc:But I was grateful for her acknowledging my talent to that degree that she thought that maybe this wasn't the right fit.
Marc:So I'm like, all right, why do I had to?
Marc:I pitched it and I'm glad.
Marc:So after all these meetings, a week later, I get a call from my manager.
Marc:NBC, as I said, already has a show in development like that.
Marc:Comedy Central hasn't really gotten back to them.
Marc:But E is very excited.
Marc:And I'm like, oh my God.
Marc:But there's a caveat.
Marc:All right.
Marc:They're excited, but not for the show that you pitched.
Marc:Turns out Ryan Seacrest pitched a similar show.
Marc:And he has a first look deal at E, so you'd be going in for Ryan Seacrest.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:I really don't know.
Marc:And my manager's like, look, you know, there's a lot of comics on there.
Marc:It really boosts their ticket sales.
Marc:You know, I mean, if we can make it work, I'm like, okay.
Marc:But now I'm in that awkward position where I'm like, I hope I don't have to be put in the position to make that decision.
Marc:I mean, what the fuck?
Marc:For those of you who don't know, I hosted a... Is the word... No, it wouldn't be seminal, but a cult classic.
Marc:An important, well-loved morning show that had about a year and a half run.
Marc:It was called Morning Sedition.
Marc:It was on the original Air America radio lineup.
Marc:We had many characters, and many of them were done by...
Marc:by comedians who i knew and uh this this next fella jim earle did several of the characters and this character was a a much beloved presence on morning sedition let's hear a little bit of mort mortensen's morning remembrance
Guest 1:As the people of a grieving nation come together to mourn, to remember, and finally to find hope, Mourning Sedition joins with them to mourn, remember, and find hope as well.
Guest 1:And so we bring you the stories of those who have lost their lives, those who inspire us to carry on.
Guest 1:Here now is Mourning Sedition grief correspondent Mort Mortensen.
Guest 6:James Griffin co-founder of the band bread This week the music world received word that James Griffin founding member of the soft rock group bread is toast In a statement released today to hopeful fans Griffin's manager said there was no truth to the rumor He's risen
Guest 6:But I guess that news is pretty stale by now.
Guest 6:Got something in my eyes.
Guest 6:Who's chopping onions?
Guest 6:Never one to loaf.
Guest 6:Griffin helped form Bread in 1968.
Guest 6:And after they released the hits Make It With You and Baby I'ma Want You, Bread was on a roll.
Guest 6:Any way you sliced it, bread was hot.
Guest 6:There's a cop button over there.
Guest 6:Bread made a lot of dough.
Guest 6:Is there a cat in here?
Guest 6:Griffin had been in good health until last week when doctors labeled his condition as crummy.
Guest 6:When loved ones discovered his body, witnesses say the former lead singer of bread was crusty.
Guest 6:Completely riddled with fungus.
Guest 7:Oh, no.
Guest 6:Nothing could be saved.
Guest 6:Not even the heels.
Guest 6:You bring a ficus plant near?
Guest 6:And Mark, you know I'm real sensitive about the pollen stuff.
Guest 6:One more paragraph.
Marc:That was a classic bit of comedy from the late great Morning Sedition.
Marc:That was an Air America morning show that was killed in its prime.
Marc:And the person that wrote and created that character, Mort Mortensen and the Morning Remembrance, Jim Earl, is on the phone.
Marc:How are you, Jim?
Guest 5:Hey, Mark.
Guest 5:It's great to hear from you again.
Guest 5:How am I doing?
Guest 5:You take a guess.
Guest 5:I'm out on the street selling pupusas in L.A.
Marc:I love pupusas.
Marc:Where are you selling them?
Guest 5:I'm on here on Fairfax and Sunset.
Marc:Do people trust your pupusas?
Marc:I mean, you are a slender white man with an attitude.
Guest 5:I have no freaking idea how to make a pupusa other than just slap some cheese on a big thing and then fry it up and then put a lot of bile and anger in it.
Guest 5:Mark, you know about bile and anger.
Marc:Sure I do.
Marc:I eat that for breakfast every day, but in the form of oatmeal, angry oatmeal.
Marc:So, Jim, I haven't talked to you.
Marc:I don't think I've talked to you since you got married.
Marc:Congratulations.
Guest 5:Hey, thanks.
Guest 5:We'll talk about that some other day, but what else do you want to talk about?
Marc:Well, I'd like to congratulate you on all your success with your band.
Guest 5:Really?
Guest 5:Have you heard my band?
Marc:Well, I've seen that you're having gigs, and I've almost watched it on YouTube.
Marc:Isn't there a YouTube clip?
Guest 5:Yeah, I know.
Guest 5:That must be a real hard thing for you to do, Mark.
Guest 5:Kind of, like, click on something on the Internet and watch it.
Guest 5:I mean, you probably have a lot of more important things to do, like, oh, I don't know, groom your beard.
Marc:Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Marc:See, you do know me, Jim, and that's why I don't understand why we don't talk more.
Marc:I just don't get it, because this conversation so far has been nothing but enjoyable.
Guest 5:I think it probably has something to do with your obsessive fear of intimacy.
Marc:Yes, I'm sure it does.
Guest 5:I've done nothing but try to get close to you.
Guest 5:LAUGHTER
Guest 5:All I know is that you lock your doors, your windows are always tightly closed, and you turn the sprinklers on whenever I'm around your house.
Marc:Well, I told you, why don't you knock on the window so at least I know not to call the cops.
Guest 5:All I know is that I just want to be close to you again and share the glory.
Marc:Well, OK, well, OK, well, then let's let's let's let's open up this line of conversation.
Marc:I am now Brendan and I are producing this podcast.
Marc:You know, Brendan, you love Brendan.
Marc:You love me as it's become clear.
Marc:And I, you know, I apologize for misreading those signs that perhaps you didn't like me when you stormed off and yelled and called me names.
Marc:But but what I was you.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Guest 5:You're right.
Guest 5:Yeah, well, it's OK.
Guest 5:I still have it on tape, by the way.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:My mistakes.
Marc:I get confused because I'm so narcissistic.
Marc:I just think that's not really another person.
Marc:That's just an extension of me.
Marc:But my question is, so you're out in L.A.
Marc:and I'm going to probably be back in L.A.
Marc:Now, I think what I want to ask is that I think we should generate some some new original comedy for this podcast.
Marc:What do you think, Jimmy?
Guest 5:Hey, I'm all right with that, because, you know, I got nothing but free time.
Marc:You're being sarcastic.
Guest 5:No, I'm into it.
Guest 5:I'm into it.
Guest 5:I just, you know...
Guest 5:I just don't want to be put up against the Kent Jones juggernaut again.
Guest 5:I can't take the competition.
Marc:No, Kent Jones, you know, is now a big-time media personality on a popular show.
Marc:All I know is a lot of people have been asking about you.
Marc:You know, we were doing Break Room Live.
Marc:They're like, where's Jim?
Marc:And I didn't know...
Marc:I didn't know how to reach out because, Jim, I know you're a guy that likes to get paid for what he does.
Guest 5:You know, it's time to come into the 19th century.
Guest 5:We have electric lights now and the phone thing, you know, where you can speak to each other and telegraph.
Marc:I'm just getting the hang of that stuff, as you can see now.
Marc:I have to have Brendan do it, and I certainly wanted to.
Marc:It just never happened, and I apologize, Jim.
Marc:But now I need you.
Marc:You see what's happening?
Marc:Now I need you, Jim.
Marc:Where are you working?
Guest 5:I'm working over here in the Director's Guild building for a clip show.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a clip show for what, online?
Marc:Or can people watch it?
Marc:Do you do things?
Guest 5:It's on True TV.
Marc:Okay.
Guest 5:It's called World's Wildest Vacation Videos.
Marc:Are you serious?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:I write funny stuff.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:I write funny ins and outs for, you know, Joe, Bob and Jared crunching their nuts.
Marc:Why don't they just call it that?
Guest 5:Hey, you know, I've sent my suggestions and now it's just time to wait for the money to roll in.
Marc:Well, I'll tell you, I'm glad you got a gig.
Marc:You got the union coverage and everything else.
Guest 5:No, it's not a union job, but that's okay because, you know, I was near death.
Guest 5:Hey, by the way, do you have any funny vacation videos of maybe just hours of you sitting alone in the basement?
Marc:Yeah, I do that in a lot of different countries.
Marc:I actually, when I travel, I say, does your bed and breakfast have a basement where I could sit and ruminate and think about myself and be bitter?
Marc:So yeah, I've got the basement tapes from Venice.
Marc:I've also got a Portuguese basement, which was very good.
Marc:And I actually, I have a basement where they were curing meat in Florence.
Guest 5:Wow, that sounds great.
Guest 5:I can put like a...
Guest 5:two-minute interview piece together for that, if you like.
Marc:That would be wonderful, Jim.
Marc:And I think that we can, that'll help you, and then you'll help us.
Marc:So if I come out to L.A.
Marc:in a month and I call you, maybe we can do some things.
Guest 5:Excuse me.
Guest 5:Proposes, get your proposes here.
Guest 5:Yeah, dose, dose.
Guest 5:Come on, give me a break, fella.
Guest 5:Two bucks.
Guest 5:All right, come back.
Guest 5:Oh, Jesus.
Guest 5:Yeah, what were you saying, Mark?
Guest 5:What was that?
Marc:Nothing, man.
Marc:I feel like I'm cutting into your work time.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:Did I lose a customer for you there?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:Thanks for nothing, by the way.
Guest 5:I'm here for you, Mark.
Guest 5:I've always been there for you.
Marc:Oh, my goodness.
Guest 5:No judgments here.
Marc:Well, that's what I always liked about you, Jim.
Marc:There were no judgments, and you were just like a very moral but reasonably tolerant man.
Yeah.
Marc:Except when it came to Led Zeppelin or any prog rock.
Marc:Yeah, I understand.
Guest 5:The dinosaur bands.
Guest 5:Well, you know, you probably, you can do a lot of shredding at home alone with your guitar, right?
Marc:Yeah, I actually did that in a rental studio with a couple of young comics last week.
Marc:And man, I got out there, dude.
Marc:I pushed the envelope.
Guest 5:That's what you're known for, pushing the envelope, going one extra step up the ladder, taking it out of the box, making it pop off the page.
Guest 5:You've done all that.
Marc:I have.
Marc:So what's what's stuck in your craw these days, Jimmy?
Marc:Sound awfully peaceful.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's a little disconcerting.
Marc:Something must have happened recently that pissed you off.
Guest 5:Oh, I don't know.
Guest 5:I think it's just that, you know, I'd like to leave this country, but I don't have enough money to.
Guest 5:That's basically it.
Guest 5:You know, I've had it with America.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 5:It's getting over with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It does feel a little over with, doesn't it?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:You know, I thought Obama coming in with a change would happen.
Guest 5:But no, it's just the same old crap.
Guest 5:So I'm moving to Amsterdam as soon as I get enough money to open up a donut store slash a whorehouse.
Marc:Well, I'll tell you what, if you need any help with that, if we can make this thing work and take off and make a few bucks, I'll definitely cover the donut side of that equation for you.
Guest 5:Hey, I'm open to that.
Guest 5:I look forward to working with you again and getting yelled at.
Marc:Well, I'll try to make that happen, Jim.
Marc:Thanks for talking to me, Matt.
Guest 5:Yeah, no problem.
Guest 5:Whatever.
Marc:Bye.
Marc:So long.
Marc:This is Marc Maron.
Marc:This is What the Fuck.
Guest 4:Your voice sounds better on a mic.
Guest 4:I like listening to you.
Guest 4:As opposed to?
Guest 4:In person.
Guest 4:Oh, as a...
Guest 4:What?
Guest 4:I like listening to your voice better over recording than seeing you in person.
Marc:No, that means that you like the tone and feeling of my voice when it's pure in your head and you don't have to look at me necessarily and feel the pressure and physicality of my needs and disdain and panic.
Guest 4:Yeah, you just sound like a nicer person.
Marc:This is Matthew Weiss, a filmmaker, and the jury's still out on whether or not we're friends.
Marc:We work together, and I've reached out to him.
Marc:We're new friends.
Marc:I tried that with you once before.
Marc:We tried the friendship thing.
Guest 4:Within a week, you were like, this friendship isn't working.
Marc:It's not working.
Guest 4:I mean, men are men.
Guest 4:We've got to have some pace here, Mark.
Guest 4:What I'm saying to you is this.
Guest 4:We have a foundation.
Guest 4:You don't want to rush it.
Marc:Rush it?
Marc:It's been months, and I'm leaving town.
Marc:It's not you.
Guest 4:It's me.
Marc:I could admit to the fact that I have very few friends.
Marc:You know why?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Let's not do that.
Marc:I have very few friends because for some reason I don't always get along with people and there are certain people that get me and there are certain people that I understand.
Marc:And this isn't a romantic thing.
Marc:This is straight out man shit.
Marc:Still emotions.
Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But I still felt that, you know, we we got along good.
Marc:We had some good conversations.
Marc:I wanted to have more of that.
Marc:And then and then all of a sudden you're like, no, sorry, I have to eat a sandwich or no, I can't because I'm I have to I have to make up something I have to do because I'm busy doing that.
Marc:And then after a certain point, I'm like, that obvious.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And after a certain point, I was like, you know what, dude?
Marc:Look, when I have a friend, I need that guy there 24-7 for whatever the hell I need at the moment that I need it.
Marc:That's clear.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And if you can't do that, then you're not a good friend.
Marc:You can go fuck yourself.
Guest 4:Yeah, that's a lot of dichotomy there.
Guest 4:How is that unreasonable?
Guest 4:Well, you're certainly within your rights to want that from someone, but to expect that to be possible.
Marc:All right, so what do you do?
Marc:You say, look, I want to be your friend.
Marc:I think we can be friends.
Marc:I think we just got to back up.
Marc:Here's Eckhart Tolle's entire catalog.
Guest 4:Yeah, I gave you that early on, I think.
Guest 4:Here, curl up in bed with this instead.
Marc:Help yourself out.
Guest 4:But Mark, that's to have a sandwich thing you're referring to like one time.
Guest 4:You're like, hey, let's hang out.
Guest 4:And I'm like, I can't.
Guest 4:And now it's like, this friendship is fucking over.
Guest 4:This is ridiculous.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So I'm a little needy and I was going through a difficult time.
Marc:And I'm glad that we resolved that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what I want to talk about, perhaps.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Let's go a couple of things here, because we're both single men.
Marc:I have been married twice.
Marc:I have no children, as many people know.
Marc:You have not been married, and you don't have any children.
Marc:Nope.
Marc:Though I did, you know, my second wife was younger than me, and I'm happy.
Marc:You know, she finally left the nest and is going to...
Marc:Go have a life of her own.
Marc:You raised her well.
Guest 4:It's time to let her go free.
Marc:I'm not sure if I raised her well, but I certainly honored the type of upbringing she had previous to me, which from all indication was not good, and I didn't intend to do it that way.
Marc:She needs to go have a sandwich.
Marc:Yeah, but I've been dating a bit, and I find that...
Marc:I find that I don't know if you get this, but like I will get into.
Marc:Oh, someone called.
Guest 4:Are you taking a text now?
Marc:No, I was just picking it up because I'm about to talk about it.
Marc:Like, do you ever get into.
Marc:Oh, look, this is from my manager.
Guest 4:Is it better than.
Guest 4:Oh, this is what happens, everybody.
Guest 4:Mark hanging out with Mark.
Guest 4:This is part of the neediness is that if you're not on him within like 30 seconds, something interesting, he will go to the text.
Marc:Well, what I was going to say was, do you ever get into those text relationships that become almost like drugs?
Marc:Like you meet somebody new and you start with the texting.
Marc:Like, what are you doing?
Marc:I'm just hanging out.
Marc:Or you get those moments.
Marc:Do you ever get that?
Guest 4:No, I have a little bit more boundaries than you do.
Guest 4:So I'm trying to be a little more proactive about setting that up and texting.
Marc:But your boundaries are bogus because they're buttressed.
Guest 4:You're right because I'm here.
Guest 4:I am here.
Marc:They're buttressed with passive aggression.
Marc:Boundaries should not have to be defended all the time.
Marc:Where's the passive aggressiveness in a boundary?
Marc:Just wait, I'll point it out when it happens.
Marc:So I get into these text things, and I'm not good at it because even with people like guys that I know, I'll be like, hey, what's up?
Marc:And then a few minutes will go by, I'm like, what's up?
Marc:And nothing.
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck, douchebag?
Guest 4:Yeah, you can map your neediness onto any new technology.
Marc:That's right.
Guest 4:That's what fuels technology.
Guest 4:Yeah, and it just gets faster and faster and faster.
Marc:That's right, but that is why technology is so prevalent.
Marc:But here's what I wanted to ask you.
Guest 4:Yeah, okay.
Marc:Have you ever misinterpreted an email or a text?
Guest 4:Yeah, yeah.
Guest 4:I'm pretty sure that's happened to us.
Guest 4:But I'm talking about with a woman?
Guest 4:You're like a woman.
Guest 4:Who's the woman in this?
Guest 4:Well.
Marc:Seriously.
Guest 4:You've got the.
Marc:Okay.
Guest 1:All right.
Marc:That was defeated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So my point is that they're really just for basic communications.
Marc:There's not a lot of poetry.
Guest 4:Information.
Guest 4:Right.
Guest 4:You don't know the music.
Guest 4:You just know the lyrics.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I get like I meet somebody, right, a woman and I and she gives me a number.
Marc:So I text her like, hey, what's up?
Marc:She's like, you know, not much.
Marc:How are you doing?
Marc:It was really nice meeting you the other day.
Marc:And I think my third text was like, of course, I want to fuck you.
Marc:That sounds hot.
Guest 4:Yeah.
Guest 4:But aren't you the one who gets text messages of naked pictures of women's vaginas spread open for you?
Marc:Yes, that happened.
Marc:That was a very funny moment, too.
Marc:This woman was sending me pictures of herself naked, which I appreciated.
Marc:But then, of course, I go to take the next step.
Marc:It's sort of like, hey, man, I'd really like to maybe touch that.
Marc:And then she texts me back, whoa, whoa, whoa, easy.
Marc:I'm like, oh, how did I misread that?
Guest 4:Now that is a boundary confusion.
Marc:Yeah, I'll say.
Marc:So, look, do you want to talk about the film?
Marc:Which film?
Marc:Because if we're going to talk about Inglourious Bastards, he's got to leave because Brendan doesn't have anything to do with it.
Guest 4:Yeah, I suggest you not hear this.
Guest 4:But doesn't he have to listen to this when he edits it?
Guest 4:You should see it before you edit it.
Guest 4:All right, well, Brendan... We'll keep it succinct.
Marc:But then he's going to talk about the pain locker or the hurt locker.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:I'm going to go see that tomorrow.
Marc:How far away is he going to go?
Guest 4:We'll call him.
Guest 4:I can hit the space bar if we go over.
Marc:But theoretically, he should stay in the room because we shouldn't spoil it anyways.
Marc:I mean, that's what film reviewers do.
Marc:They're not supposed to spoil it.
Guest 4:I guess if we're being film critics, but I think we're just chatting about our takes on the podcast.
Marc:Here's a couple of things that I will tell you right out of the gate.
Marc:Brad Pitt was excellent.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That guy impresses me in the sense that he's a movie star, yet when he turns on the juice and he wants to focus, he can act, man.
Guest 4:And he can be like a character actor.
Guest 4:He can do like a shtick.
Marc:He certainly can.
Marc:And he does it over and over again.
Marc:Every once in a while, he'll just do the pretty boy roles and just be charming.
Marc:But then all of a sudden, like, and it happened early in his career, too, that the movie, what was it, California, where he played the psycho guy.
Marc:And he was great in the true romance and that bit part as a stoner.
Marc:And then, like, in Burn, after reading, he was great as, like, the dumb gym guy.
Marc:And he's sort of like, like, there are movie stars that can do this, where they don't lose their fundamental charisma and mystique as a movie star.
Thank you.
Marc:They're just able to sort of figure out a way to get some ticks and habits, and they commit to them.
Marc:It was like Jack Nicholson in Pritzy's Honor or like George Clooney in any other role that he's done other than the Oceans movies.
Marc:So I like that part of it.
Guest 4:And what's weird is that I'm reading a lot of criticism of Brad Pitt in a lot of reviews, that he's just sort of a one-note.
Guest 4:But you know what?
Guest 4:This movie is not a very deep movie.
Guest 4:It's like a visceral kind of entertainment experience, and he, I think, lives up to that.
Marc:And here's the things that pissed me off.
Marc:I love the violence.
Marc:I love the war stuff.
Guest 4:Yeah, funny violence.
Marc:Yeah, I like all that.
Marc:I got no problem with it.
Marc:That's Tarantino.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But like 20 minutes into the movie, it becomes this other film.
Guest 4:Now, I remember you said that before I saw it, but what is that?
Marc:The spy thing?
Marc:The story about the woman.
Guest 4:See, I loved all that.
Guest 4:I think Tarantino was a master at making, like, if Spielberg or some of these bigger directors make roller coasters, he makes, like, haunted houses where you're, like, creeping along.
Marc:No, I get that.
Guest 4:And the tension builds, and then boom.
Guest 4:And that scene in the basement...
Guest 4:That was great.
Guest 4:No, I'm not talking about the Jewish woman.
Marc:I'm talking about, yeah, the movie theater stuff, which had a lot to say about film and a lot to say about the power of film.
Marc:And also there was a lot of there's some inside jokes.
Marc:But once he played a lot of inside jokes, a lot of references, a lot of derivative.
Marc:But then the putting out fire with gasoline.
Marc:Why would you use that song?
Guest 4:Well, it's literally describing what's going on in a way.
Marc:I know, but wasn't that song used in a movie before?
Guest 4:Yeah, it was Cat People.
Guest 4:That's the theme to Cat People.
Guest 4:But he also used Sergio Leone.
Guest 4:That's Tarantino's Fortes.
Guest 4:He samples all kinds of different movies.
Marc:But not with lyrics.
Marc:Sergio Leone, I'm not going to figure that out.
Guest 4:Well, you know, he's saying, I don't give a crap.
Guest 4:I have a record room in my house, and I love this record, and I'm putting it on, and that's what it takes to be me.
Marc:I'm not complaining.
Marc:It was a completely satisfying movie, and I thought it was great.
Marc:I loved seeing all the Nazis.
Marc:I loved the guy that played the SS guy.
Marc:He was genius.
Marc:He was hilarious.
Marc:The opening sequence at the French farmhouse was beautiful.
Guest 4:I mean, the movie's amoral, though.
Guest 4:You have to admit that.
Guest 4:It's not the wish fulfillment of of the World War Two ending in the way that he portrays.
Guest 4:Yeah.
Guest 4:Is is I mean, I was confused.
Guest 4:I was my jaw was on the floor.
Guest 4:I was viscerally involved.
Guest 4:But, you know, that's it also makes you kind of sad.
Guest 4:Right.
Guest 4:Because it's like, wait, it didn't didn't go that way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, it's interesting that even knowing how it went, that I found as jarring as the ending was that it was very satisfying.
Guest 4:Oh, yeah.
Guest 4:I mean, I was like, holy.
Marc:And I didn't think it would work.
Marc:There's no reason why that should work.
Guest 4:Yeah.
Guest 4:But it's like a dream.
Guest 4:And you wake up.
Guest 4:You're like, oh, man, that girl was so hot in that dream.
Guest 4:But now I'm awake and I'm alone.
Marc:Right.
Guest 4:So in a way, it's kind of that's why it's like it's amoral and ballsy.
Guest 4:And, you know, he he absolutely has no sort of insight into World War Two beyond how it plays as a movie.
Guest 4:It's really he's rewriting this movie.
Guest 4:Like, that's a terrible ending to that war.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He thinks it's like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I thought that was kind of cool.
Guest 4:Yeah, that's why I always can respect Tarantino as much as a derivative filmmaker as he is, as much as he has a lack of insight into like true human motivations.
Guest 4:He is such a cheerleader and his enthusiasm for movies as such is so contagious, especially to a fellow film enthusiast.
Guest 4:Although I like to think that films can do a little bit more than what he gives them credit for.
Guest 4:He does an amazing job of sucking you in.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:And I think that he's such a fan of the medium in all levels.
Guest 4:Yeah, he's like a retarded kid that's running around in circles.
Guest 4:You're like, oh, he's so cute.
Guest 4:Look out.
Marc:That's so funny.
Marc:Yeah, he's a film savant.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But he has no sense of depth in terms of- No, he's like eternally 17.
Marc:He doesn't have much humanity.
Marc:He doesn't have much humility.
Marc:Yeah, but so what?
Marc:That's boring, right?
Marc:And there's no character arcs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Let's bring Brendan back in.
Marc:And I think he can listen to that.
Marc:Yeah, he can definitely listen to that.
Marc:Brendan, I don't think we did anything that you're going to... Yeah.
Marc:It won't bother you at all.
Marc:Not necessarily.
Marc:We went out of our way to do it.
Guest 2:Well, that's good because I just realized, too, that the people listening to the podcast aren't able to get up and leave the room.
Guest 2:They'll have to just stop listening if you guys were giving spoilers away.
Guest 2:No, we're not.
Guest 2:We didn't do any spoiling.
Guest 2:Okay, that's good.
Marc:Because I have to learn how to do that.
Guest 4:You know what?
Guest 4:I've heard worse ones in reviews, actually.
Marc:I got a lot of flack for spoiling something once I didn't even know it because I thought the movie was so bad that I figured that if anyone paid to see it, they got to be morons.
Marc:Oh, the day after tomorrow.
Guest 4:Yeah, the day after tomorrow.
Guest 4:What about The Day the Earth Stood Still?
Guest 4:People complained about that, too.
Guest 4:But who's going to see it?
Guest 4:Who the hell would see that movie?
Guest 4:That's not for you to decide, Mark.
Marc:All right, so we're going to talk about a movie now that you didn't see.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:The Foot Locker?
Marc:The Hurt Locker.
Marc:The Hurt Locker.
Marc:The Pain Locker?
Guest 4:The Pain Locker could be a good title.
Guest 4:Are there spoilers in that?
Guest 4:Because I'm going to go see that on Saturday.
Guest 2:No, I mean, there's not really any way to have a spoiler in this movie.
Guest 2:Does he die?
Guest 2:Does he not die?
Guest 2:No.
Guest 2:I don't know that it's a movie.
Guest 2:There's not really a narrative plot.
Marc:It's a lyrical film.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:There isn't a driving story other than the experience of this particular unit in the Iraq War.
Marc:And they were basically a unit that was support and technically were to defuse bombs.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I mean, that's what they did.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they were specialists, and it was a small unit.
Marc:I think there was only four guys, right?
Marc:Four or five guys.
Marc:Three guys.
Marc:There was the guy that went out and defused the bomb, and then the two guys that covered them.
Marc:And I think it was one of these war movies now that redefines...
Marc:How we see war, certainly on film, but I think in general, too.
Marc:I mean, it sort of started for me with Black Hawk Down.
Marc:I thought that movie was interesting because there was the command structure was was a bit fractured and it was very intimate that you didn't.
Marc:There was no going to the general who was in a different location and that everybody was really out for their own and out to protect their the back of their.
Marc:of their brother in the war.
Marc:There was no sense of like, we're doing this for America, where it was just a sense of survival and respecting the unit.
Marc:And this thing even takes it a step further to where you have individuals making decisions in the field without any real chain of command that could put the other person's life in danger and them having to just shoulder that.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:And about this movie and the perception of it, you have to understand this thing premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in 2008.
Guest 2:It premiered with Slumdog Millionaire.
Guest 2:So, I mean, it's been out there for a while and there's been some buzz building up on it.
Guest 2:And all the while...
Guest 2:all these Iraq war movies have kind of died in its wake.
Guest 2:And I guess the company putting this out, Summit, was fearful of that kind of ghetto that all those films have gone to die in and sold this as an arthouse movie, which is where it did its business.
Guest 2:And by the time you're hearing this, it's probably not even going to be available in theaters anymore.
Guest 2:But you kind of owe it to yourself to see it.
Guest 2:It's such a...
Guest 2:kind of boundary-defying movie.
Guest 2:I mean, how would you categorize it, Mark?
Guest 2:I mean, it's obviously a war movie, but we were talking about this the other day.
Guest 2:Do you consider that an action movie?
Guest 2:I mean, I do.
Guest 2:It was a knot in my gut the whole time.
Marc:Well, that's the thing is that the menace comes from not...
Marc:It's not a surprise, like, you know, where's this story going?
Marc:But every situation these guys entered, the one thing that it gave me that I never really had before was a tangible sense of the terror of being in that country.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that you never really get a sense of that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The other thing that it really reminded me of was that it is Vietnam.
Marc:It is Vietnam in the desert.
Marc:It's even worse than Vietnam.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you get a sense in a lot of the Vietnam movies that if there was a command structure, it may have broken down.
Marc:But here, you really get the sense that these guys, for the most part, were on their own.
Marc:There was no upper command that you saw in the movie except for once.
Marc:And that was a genius scene with that guy.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:David Morris.
Marc:Morris.
Marc:Morris.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where he's just, you know, he had heard about this guy who disarms the bombs and he's asking him questions and it was detached.
Marc:And he was like, wow, you're a wild man.
Guest 2:It's clear that we have army CEOs now.
Marc:That is what it is.
Marc:It's a corporate mentality.
Marc:But the one thing that makes it so compelling and the reason that it's a war movie and that it redefines war movies.
Marc:is that every situation these guys are in, they are just on a street.
Marc:There's nothing around.
Marc:They're just people on balconies or someone walking by.
Marc:And you realize that everyone is suspect because they are trying to find and diffuse bombs that can be triggered by cell phones from 100 yards away with a guy standing on a balcony with the binoculars.
Marc:To see how close they are to it.
Marc:Or they're trying to disarm larger bombs, not just the improvised IEDs.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And just the fact that they're doing that, and there's really no way to secure the situation ever.
Guest 2:There's no way to secure it, because not only is it an insane situation for the people involved in the combat, it's insane for the civilians.
Guest 2:And the movie does this great thing where they never really let on to anyone's motivations ever.
Guest 2:A guy is trying to, you know, keep cover on one of his unit mates.
Guest 2:And this dude, this Iraqi dude, just kind of wanders over to him.
Guest 2:And he's like, hey, you're American, you from California?
Guest 2:And you're not sure if this is the trigger man.
Guest 2:Like that could be the guy coming in to blow the bomb.
Guest 2:Or it could just be an idiot.
Marc:Right, and that scene with the taxi, the same thing.
Guest 2:Same thing, yeah.
Guest 2:The taxi swoops in to where the guy is in full bomb gear, and you're not sure.
Guest 2:Is that car coming to blow up the bomb, or is this just a taxi in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Guest 2:And there's no way to know that.
Marc:And the standoff is spectacular.
Marc:And that's it.
Marc:The other thing about the corporate mentality is that everybody's working for the same team, but everyone's going to take their own risks and make their own decisions.
Marc:And the other guys are going to have to live with that and express their feelings about it later, that there really isn't a command structure except instinct and personal risk taking.
Guest 2:There's a lot of times in the movie where people have to make decisions on their own and the rest of the unit knows, well, we're going to just do whatever his decision is.
Guest 2:Right.
Marc:And that is a complete turn for a war movie.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It goes up the collective.
Guest 2:Right.
Marc:And they're waiting for like approval or go ahead.
Marc:But that scene where that one guy's got to watch the other two's back while they're trying to wait out that sniper.
Marc:And there's clearly someone on the bridge and they most likely have a gun.
Marc:And he's like, I don't know what to do here.
Marc:I don't know what to do here.
Marc:He says, you make the call.
Marc:And then the other guy goes, you know, you make the call.
Marc:And that was, if I'm going to say anything about this movie, that was amazing.
Marc:It was not a political movie, but in every situation where someone was about to shoot someone else, it was not a trigger-happy event.
Marc:There were no people running around going, I'm going to kill all of them.
Guest 2:You also don't get any real kill shots in the movie.
Guest 2:That's right.
Guest 2:I mean, you see people dying, but there's nothing... You're seeing it from the perspective of whatever anyone in that field of battle would see.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the main character, there's a guy who defuses bombs, and he'll risk his life to defuse bombs, and he's successful at it.
Marc:And then any other time where there is...
Marc:a moment where someone has to shoot someone else, you can feel the moral deliberation on behalf of that soldier, which is something also you don't see in many war movies.
Guest 2:Well, you say it's like Vietnam in the desert.
Guest 2:I'd take it one step further because if anybody has seen any images from the movie, whether it's the trailer or commercials or even the poster, you see this guy in this bomb suit.
Guest 2:which is, you know, this huge multi-layered jumpsuit, basically, with armor on it and a huge almost space helmet.
Guest 2:And there's a lot of beautiful shots that the director, Catherine Bigelow, is obviously doing deliberately here to show him walking off toward that solitary area that's been cordoned off because there's a bomb there.
Guest 2:And he looks like a spaceman.
Guest 2:And the terrain is interplanetary.
Guest 2:I mean, it's just, it's bombed out.
Guest 2:There's dust everywhere.
Guest 2:They might as well be on the moon.
Guest 2:That's how outlandish it is, the situation that is going on in that country.
Guest 2:And the movie, for its credit, doesn't pass any judgment on that.
Guest 2:It just presents it for what it is.
Marc:Yeah, I like that about the movie, that there was not a political angle, and I don't think they fell into any hackneyed holes.
Marc:So I could go on a little bit about some of the exchanges, but I'm willing to forgive it.
Marc:And there's a couple of interesting emotional trajectories that sort of build the character that I definitely, it was definitely a mind-blowing movie to me.
Guest 2:I think it'll get nominated for Best Picture, especially that they've expanded that to 10 films this year.
Guest 2:With the field being opened, it's a chance for a movie like that to actually be recognized and then be seen by a wider group of people, which I think it should have played next to Transformers.
Guest 2:People going to that movie would have liked this movie, too.
Marc:Yeah, anyone would have liked this movie.
Marc:There's no way you can't be engaged in it, and I think it is the most graphic and honest depiction of what that war looks like.
Marc:And I think a lot of it had to do with what you were talking about, the way it was shot and just the space involved.
Marc:Brendan McDonald on the mic for the movie wrap.
Guest 2:Two prosthetic thumbs up.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:okay that's it thank you for listening this has been wtf i am and was and will be i hope mark maron thank you for listening hope you're enjoying the shows the new format and remember don't ever be afraid to scream at the sky what the fuck and don't ever be afraid to cut yourself a little slack and say what the fuck
Thank you.