Episode 192 - Paul Reiser
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what-the-fuckers?
Marc:What-the-fuck buddies?
Marc:What-the-fuckineers?
Marc:What-the-fuck nicks?
Marc:What-the-fuck wits?
Marc:You know, that one's not that nice, but I thought I'd try it.
Marc:I'm not encouraging more of these.
Marc:What-the-fuckstables?
Marc:There's a lot that I can't get to.
Marc:What-the-fuck-a-ricans?
Marc:What-the-fuck-a-ricit?
Marc:What?
Marc:What?
Marc:What just happened?
Marc:Did my brain just...
Marc:skid out oh my god this is wtf i am mark maron i'm out here in the garage i'm doing let's do this right away because oh hold on
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Wow!
Marc:I just shit my pants at JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:You can get that at WTFPod.com or at JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:I'm doing that early in the show because apparently my mild bullying of Mike up at Just Coffee yielded me a great big bunch of coffee in the mail, so now I'm all jacked up and out of my fucking mind at the beginning of the show here.
Marc:Today on the show, Paul Reiser.
Marc:Oh, I saw that face.
Marc:I heard your reaction.
Marc:You were like, Paul Reiser, really?
Marc:Yes, Paul Reiser.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Paul Reiser is on the show.
Marc:And Paul Reiser, when I first saw Diner Man, that dude I thought was hilarious in that movie.
Marc:I loved that movie.
Marc:It had a profound impact on my life in a lot of ways.
Marc:Loved that movie.
Marc:I had not started doing comedy.
Marc:When I'd seen it and then I saw that movie and that was when I approached Paul Reiser at a comedy club when I was in college and asked him some big questions or one big question.
Marc:I'll bring that up to him, but we'll talk to him in a second.
Marc:I would like to get to the emails in response to the Todd Hansen episode of this show.
Marc:And by get to, I don't mean I'm going to read them because there were literally hundreds of them.
Marc:Uh, and I can't tell you how profoundly moved I was by these emails and how excited, uh, in, in a very deep way that, that, that interview helped so many people with their own depression, with their own, uh,
Marc:And understanding of people in their lives with depression and also all the love that went out to Todd.
Marc:I've been forwarding these emails for the last few days to Todd.
Marc:And I just I can't even express how that makes me feel and how and how it's made Todd feel.
Marc:Just great.
Marc:And I'm so happy that that episode had such a profound effect on everyone.
Marc:I really am.
Marc:It's actually getting to the point, and I'm sad to say this, that I read all the emails that come in, but I'm no longer in a position where I can honestly say that I will respond to all of them.
Marc:I apologize for that, but do know that I do read them and do know that all the stuff that came in for Todd, I forwarded on to Todd.
Marc:And I'm just so happy that episode.
Marc:did what it did.
Marc:Oh, yeah, another thing I got in the snail mail because of my talk with Nick Thune, and I guess I mentioned that I don't find a lot of Christians...
Marc:trying to get me on board.
Marc:Well, someone had Amazon send me a New Testament.
Marc:So that was the first genuine approach.
Marc:I am holding it in my hand right now.
Marc:I don't know what I'll do with it.
Marc:It's a nice little book.
Marc:It seems to be written for people...
Marc:who don't want to read Bible language, but would like to read stories.
Marc:And thank you for that.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:And I knew it came with a slightly reluctant note saying, well, you said no one did this, so here you go.
Marc:Okay, messaged, received.
Marc:And that's literally the name of the New Testament, the message.
Marc:So I'll figure out what to do with that later.
Marc:I do appreciate the gesture.
Marc:As always, I am completely thrilled that this show inspires people to do things, even if it's send me a Bible, make a picture, make a mosaic of my face, whatever it's doing, if it's getting you guys going and it's getting people creative and it's making you see things in a different way, I couldn't fucking be more happy
Marc:about that i i just i don't even know what to do with those feelings but they're good ones so thanks for coming out in sunnyvale sunnyvale california in a comedy club that might as well be a time machine rooster t feathers is a classic comedy club that's gone through several periods of uh of this or that but it remains intact almost exactly as it was in the 80s
Marc:including pictures of big stars of their headshots from the eighties.
Marc:But the feeling of the club is eighties.
Marc:It really, it's as if you're, you're time traveling for fuck's sake.
Marc:There's a disco ball, the music they play in between acts is from the eighties.
Marc:And I don't know if they're doing it on purpose, but we had a great show.
Marc:A lot of WTFers came out, thrilled to see y'all a fan of,
Marc:Took me over to Google campus.
Marc:I wouldn't have even thought that.
Marc:I was right across the street from Apple.
Marc:I didn't go over there.
Marc:I do know that my BlackBerry was not working well.
Marc:I don't know if Apple had anything to do with that.
Marc:I don't know if that because I was in the Apple radius that my BlackBerry, that dispatches from my BlackBerry were being attacked in midair by Apple information assassins, data assassins being dispatched from the main campus.
Marc:I don't know, but it was fucked up.
Marc:I was right there.
Marc:I don't really put it into context where I am, but then a fan emailed me and said, well, why don't you want to come to Google?
Marc:They have great food.
Marc:And I thought, I didn't know Google was known for its food, but apparently it is in that area.
Marc:If you're lucky enough to have a pal who'll take you over to Google, there's fucking free food everywhere.
Marc:I could not believe this thing.
Marc:It's this huge corporate campus.
Marc:And I met a couple of other people from Google and I got to be honest with you, they're a little googly eyed.
Marc:And I don't mean that I know that sounded stupid, but for serious, man, for reals, there's a there's a cult like element to Google because people love working there so fucking much.
Marc:How can you not?
Marc:I mean, they got free food everywhere.
Marc:It's their idea that people should be able to eat wherever they want, whenever they want.
Marc:There's literally cafes and restaurants in every building at the Google campus.
Marc:They have laundromats.
Marc:They have a hospital there almost like a health clinic.
Marc:They've got a gym.
Marc:They got volleyball.
Marc:They got a sculpture garden.
Marc:They got a Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton out there.
Marc:They got.
Marc:But the food, man, I went to I got to Google on Friday and I went to what could only be described as a food court cafeteria.
Marc:Thousands of people eating.
Marc:They had Indian food.
Marc:They had burgers.
Marc:They had all types of desserts.
Marc:They had food that could accommodate anybody.
Marc:I had some of the best Indian food I've ever had in my life at Google.
Marc:How is that possible?
Marc:And then I thought just when I was stuffed and I couldn't eat anymore, we took a walk.
Marc:And in another part of the Google campus, they had food trucks and some sort of seafood fare right there on the Google campus.
Marc:Just people fucking eating.
Marc:I could not believe it.
Marc:I wanted to live there.
Marc:I think that's what I think that's what they're gunning for.
Marc:I think if you spend more than three hours at Google, you automatically work there or you can't leave.
Marc:I don't know what the idea is, but they clearly don't want people to leave.
Marc:I was amazed at the place.
Marc:I didn't see anybody doing anything.
Marc:I didn't see anyone doing any work anywhere at Google.
Marc:I don't know what I was expecting.
Marc:I don't know if I was expecting to to walk down hallways and have panicky nerds bolting out of doors saying, hey, someone just someone just searched parrot cowboy boot and lubricant.
Marc:Where do I send them?
Marc:Anyone got answers?
Marc:Yeah, I don't know if I was expecting that.
Marc:I would think that I wasn't, but it's certainly a funny image.
Marc:And then I started thinking, why are they feeding these guys so much?
Marc:I mean, most people, I don't have the discipline not to eat everything all the time.
Marc:I think they're fattening them up.
Marc:I think that they're getting these nerd engineers obese so they can't leave offices.
Marc:And those will function as almost like veal calve.
Marc:pens so they just fatten up these nerds and then what they're doing with those nerds is i was i asked a woman who i went with i said look where do they keep the main data processing stuff where are the hard drives and she was like well we don't know and then i started thinking man maybe this is devious maybe maybe there's a maybe it's there's a google there's the google just this large maybe
Marc:sort of like 50-foot obese nerd that just has wires plugged directly into his skull and he's just in a basement, climate-controlled room.
Marc:And they just rely on him.
Marc:He's some sort of savant, like the Minority Report.
Marc:Was that the name of it?
Marc:With the Tom Cruise movie where they just plug into these junkies' brains?
Marc:Well, they just... He's actually... His brain is the search engine for the entire Google platform.
Marc:And what they do is they feed him these...
Marc:These full-sized, fattened-up nerd engineers that they're fattening and keeping locked in this room.
Marc:And they can't let you see that because only two or three people can see the Google.
Marc:Maybe that's what's going on.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And just a thought, you know, these billionaires, these tech billionaires, I never really saw it up close, but boy, extravagant.
Marc:There was part of me that thought like, okay, I'm glad there's all this food, but is there a money buffet?
Marc:Perhaps if they're willing to go to this degree to get people to like them and like their company, I'd like to go to the money buffet.
Marc:The free money buffet, where is that?
Marc:Is that anywhere?
Marc:Don't feed the Google!
Marc:billionaires why do they even keep working that's what i don't understand if i had a billion dollars you know what i would do nothing i would do nothing i would sit outside on my deck and i would just sit there and do nothing i would just sit and look out at my yard do some thinking and occasionally just maybe go i have a billion dollars holy fuck
Marc:That's what I would do.
Marc:Because if I had all that money, I don't know, then I'd have to get a bigger house.
Marc:Don't you have to get a bigger house when you have a lot of money?
Marc:I don't know how people handle houses.
Marc:I don't know how people handle it.
Marc:I have a two bedroom house.
Marc:It's too much for me.
Marc:If I had a billion dollars, I probably wouldn't even move.
Marc:I probably, nah, I wouldn't move because I get anxious with the second bedroom in this house.
Marc:All my shit's in the garage.
Marc:I have a bedroom.
Marc:There's another bedroom in the house that I walk by on my way to my bedroom.
Marc:And I look in there and I'm like, oh God, what am I going to do with that room?
Marc:I got to do something.
Marc:There's just this giant bed in there that a guy who was living in my house bought, this California King bed.
Marc:And there's a mound of Jessica's clothing, of course.
Marc:But what am I going to do with that room?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It makes me panicky.
Marc:I couldn't handle a third room.
Marc:I guess, though, if you had that much money, you could pay someone to handle your rooms.
Marc:Maybe if I had a billion dollars, I would do something with that room.
Marc:Maybe I would just put a stack of money in it.
Marc:And I could show people my house and say, yeah, it's just a small house, small two-bedroom house.
Marc:This is my bedroom.
Marc:That's my money.
Marc:This is my living room.
Marc:This is the cat's.
Marc:Do you want to look at my money again?
No.
Marc:By the way, the music in this episode of WTF is by the Tomorrow Men.
Marc:They have a new album called It's About Time, and you can check them out at iTunes or at their website, tmensurf.com.
Marc:Do that.
Marc:Did you ever think in your career that a press opportunity that you would do would involve you driving to the hills of Highland Park, which I'm sure you've never been to.
Marc:Never been here.
Marc:And actually somebody had to sell you on the idea that this is worth doing.
Marc:Am I right?
Guest:Yeah, but I'm an easy sell.
Guest:Someone says, you know, this will be good.
Guest:Okay, I'll go do that.
Guest:I'm not that resistant.
Guest:I don't leave the house, but if somebody says you should.
Marc:I will.
Marc:I pictured that for some reason in my mind, I pictured you in the car, about to come over here, saying, do I have to fucking do this thing?
Marc:Where is it again?
Marc:Am I misreading you?
Guest:First of all, my brain...
Guest:My brain doesn't always digest stuff.
Guest:Not always.
Guest:My brain usually does not digest stuff properly.
Guest:So I remember I said, yeah, you got to go to Pasadena.
Guest:I went, okay.
Guest:And I just plug in the address in my GPS.
Guest:I'm going, is it possible there's two streets with this name?
Guest:You know, what if, oh, man.
Guest:I plugged it in.
Guest:I got here perfectly, but I don't really trust my thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You know, I should really look at a map.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then also then there's the reasoning.
Guest:It's like, and why?
Guest:Why again?
Guest:It'll be good.
Yeah.
Guest:Phil Rosenthal said he had a lovely time with you.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Phil's the reason I'm here.
Guest:Oh, it is?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:I called Phil.
Guest:I said, you did Mark's show?
Guest:He goes, lovely guy.
Marc:He's a lovely guy.
Marc:Yeah, I tend to... It's interesting with you because I have this thing in my head.
Marc:I met you...
Marc:When I was 19 years old, this is a true story.
Marc:Before I started doing comedy, that was maybe my first year of college.
Marc:I'd gone down to New York.
Marc:Where'd you go to school?
Marc:I went to school at BU, but before that, a small, stupid school.
Marc:And I don't know which one I was at.
Marc:I did my freshman year at a school that they had a very popular program for people with learning disabilities, but also they catered to rich Jewish families that had fucked up kids.
Marc:So I was in the second.
Marc:Middle class, not rich.
Marc:But anyway, so I don't want to give people the wrong idea.
Marc:So I go to New York.
Marc:We go to the comedy strip just to see comedy.
Marc:I knew in my mind, in my heart, I want to do comedy.
Marc:And I see you sitting out there at one of the tables.
Marc:And I just seen Diner.
Marc:And you went on that night.
Marc:So I walk up to you and I did the thing that people have done to me thousands of times now.
Marc:And I look at you and I go, I really want to do comedy.
Marc:What do I do?
Marc:What did I say?
Guest:Get a garage in Pasadena.
Marc:Step one.
Marc:You know what you said?
Marc:Which turned out to be true, but I thought you were trying to get rid of me at the time.
Marc:You said, you just got to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That is both getting rid of people and the truth.
Guest:I was actually, talking about Diner, I was doing a retrospective, it's the 30th anniversary.
Guest:So I was talking to this guy, and he reminded me that Barry Levinson, among many other things, got me into writing, just thought I could do it.
Guest:And he had recommended me for something, and I suddenly was off and running as a writer.
Guest:And I was writing some TV stuff, and then...
Guest:I went and once I had this idea for a screenplay and I had no idea how to write it.
Guest:And I went to probably a year after Diner, I'm 25 or something.
Guest:I said to Barry, kind of in all seriousness, I said, how do you write a screenplay?
Guest:He said, okay, you write Fade In.
Guest:and then keep typing that was it and you know again kind of quick you know cutesy but not wrong yeah because if you don't write fade in and you don't keep typing you won't have a screenplay both of those things are important yeah start it and continue yeah that's the hardest thing i think finishing anything anything what was that first one about oh i don't even remember really yeah you know actually actually
Guest:It's the movie that took me 20 years to do.
Guest:It was what became the Peter Falk movie that I did a couple of years ago.
Guest:It came out in 2005.
Guest:And I had this idea back then.
Guest:So, I mean, I had it for 20-something years.
Guest:This idea that I wanted to write a movie about me and my father with Peter Falk playing my father.
Guest:And the impetus was as simple as...
Guest:I was back in New Jersey visiting.
Guest:I guess I was in California already.
Guest:And I visited my parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was a Peter Falk movie on the TV.
Guest:And my father was laughing.
Guest:And I suddenly just got this moment of clarity.
Guest:I went, Peter Falk always makes my dad laugh.
Guest:No one else does.
Guest:And he was a lighthearted guy, but nobody really impressed him.
Guest:But Peter Falk always got him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:had this insight of Peter Falk as my father.
Guest:That's all I had.
Guest:And so I said, okay, I'm going to write a movie.
Guest:What the hell is it going to be?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And then I had this idea.
Guest:It's going to be a road trip, the father and son.
Guest:I don't have to be Freud to start realizing, well, maybe this is the time you wanted to spend with your dad, and you'll write it in a fictitious thing, and you'll make Peter Falk say what it is you wanted your father to say.
Guest:And did you do that?
Guest:And we ended up doing it.
Guest:And so I started it, put it away, started it, put it away, and then...
Guest:And actually, so that, yeah, that must have been 83, 84.
Guest:I moved out to California in 83.
Guest:And I remember in my first apartment typing away and literally writing fade in and then staring at the computer, not the typewriter.
Guest:Didn't have computers then.
Guest:And when Mad About You was over, which is now, you know, then 1999 or, yeah, and then 2000, I said, okay, I
Guest:If you want to do this, I saw Peter Falk in a play, and I just got so excited again.
Guest:I said, you must be crazy to not do this.
Guest:Go write the stupid thing.
Guest:It probably, you know, it's a thousand reasons it won't happen anyway, but go, you do it.
Guest:So I sat down, and finally, after all that time, it didn't take that long.
Guest:It took 20 years, and then six weeks.
Guest:So when you sit down, it comes out.
Guest:And I literally, and I had met Peter Falk, and it's a long story.
Guest:I didn't think I'd be telling it.
Guest:I went back after... I hadn't met him once before, but I met him after the play.
Guest:And after the play, he reminded me of this story that he... I went to him and I just... I was like a kid at the circus.
Guest:I mean, I just always loved him.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I mean, he's great.
Guest:Were you a Cassavetes fan?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, from Husbands.
Guest:But the first thing I remember seeing Peter Falk in either Pocketful of Miracles or Robin and the Seven Hoods.
Guest:I don't remember which I saw first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I saw the second one first.
Guest:Robin Hood came out later.
Guest:But...
Guest:And I just loved it.
Guest:And maybe he kind of reminded me of my dad.
Guest:I don't know what it was.
Guest:But there's just something so organically funny and beautiful and tender and powerful about him.
Guest:So I went backstage to say hello.
Guest:And I never told him.
Guest:I never told him that I had this thing in the back of my head.
Guest:Because I figured if I said, you know, I want to write a screenplay, he'd say, well, then do it.
Guest:What the hell are you bothering me now?
Guest:So I didn't say anything.
Guest:Do you do other impressions?
Guest:No, that's it.
Guest:So I remember I said to him, I said, boy, I love the play.
Guest:And he grabbed me by the hand and he looked me in the eye very purposefully.
Guest:He goes, I love everything you do.
Guest:I said, well, gee, that's it.
Guest:He goes, I love your acting.
Guest:I said, what's that?
Guest:He goes, I love your writing.
Guest:And I said, well, that's kind of weird.
Guest:Then he says it again.
Guest:He looks me in the eye, making sure I didn't miss it.
Guest:I love your writing.
Guest:I went...
Guest:What the hell is going on?
Guest:How does he know I have this idea?
Guest:So I literally went home that day and I started writing.
Guest:Did he talk to your father?
Guest:No, I don't know what that was.
Guest:It was just something.
Guest:He sent something.
Guest:Sent something.
Guest:And a couple of weeks later, I finished the script.
Guest:I called him up.
Guest:I said, can I?
Guest:And I tried to impart to him how long I've been sitting on this.
Guest:And he goes, well, you wrap it off and I'll read it.
Guest:And I dropped it off.
Guest:And that night, like 11 o'clock at night, I was sitting thinking, maybe he'll call tonight.
Guest:And I sat by the phone.
Guest:And I said, I can't sit here forever.
Guest:So I took the dog out for a walk.
Guest:I come back.
Guest:I missed it.
Guest:It was like a little bit.
Guest:I was gone for 40 seconds.
Guest:And on the message machine was, well, I'm on page 43.
Guest:And I fucking love this.
Guest:I fucking love this.
Guest:I went, no.
Guest:So, yeah, and then he called me two hours later and he said, let's do this.
Guest:I went, okay, that's why you should write whatever you have.
Guest:And then we ended up doing it.
Guest:It still wasn't easy and there were a thousand things that, you know, obstacles, but, you know.
Guest:Now, which movie was this?
Guest:It was a thing called The Thing About My Folks and it was Peter Falk, Olympia Dukakis.
Guest:Was it received well?
Guest:It was received well and tiny.
Guest:You know, I mean, people who saw it, you know, which is, it seems to be my theme in life now.
Guest:For those who want to see this and loved it and it didn't get,
Guest:It got some nice reviews and it got some less kind reviews.
Guest:But I always tell people, go see it for him.
Guest:I think it was his last performance.
Guest:And I think he might have done something afterwards or he was supposed to.
Guest:But certainly one of his last, if not his last.
Guest:And he's the absolute center.
Guest:And he's just brilliant.
Guest:And I was sitting there not only...
Guest:marveling, like, you know, A, I get to sit next to my idol, Peter Falk, and I'm watching him work, and he'd kick ass, and he was brilliant.
Guest:And at the same time, and you're playing my father, and I can't believe you're doing this.
Guest:You know, we were upstate New York filming it, and it was, you know, it was a dream come true.
Guest:So, to anybody aspiring out there, to the young yous out there,
Guest:Just write it.
Marc:Something will happen.
Marc:Isn't that interesting, though?
Marc:It's weird because a guy that's had your success and your visibility and is a big star in your own right, that there's still these guys.
Marc:I imagine that when you sit down with guys of your generation, like Larry Miller or Larry David or any of the dudes that you start out with, Seinfeld, whoever your friends are at this time, that you don't get that same feeling.
Marc:It's like, this is fucking Peter Falk.
Guest:You know, I was just driving up here on the radio listening to some guy that I didn't know, some music guy who was talking about this, like there's a sort of a retro thing going on now where young 20-year-olds are going, looking at the 90s and going to him, who had his first album in the 90s, going, well, that was the golden time, man.
Guest:And they're going, what?
Guest:really it's like you know everybody goes i remember seeing john lennon on some show and talking about uh it was mike douglas maybe and he got to meet chuck berry and he couldn't believe that oh my god i'm meeting chuck berry right you're john lennon what do you care it's like well because that's where you know that's where he learned his rock and roll so yeah so the people that you come in admiring will forever have that special right you still like i have a child look a childlike awe of them
Guest:Now, you grew up in Jersey?
Guest:I grew up in Manhattan in New York.
Guest:My family moved to New Jersey just when I went to college.
Guest:And you did comedy because I don't... When was the last time you did stand-up?
Guest:It's very funny.
Guest:I just, like two months ago, started doing it for the first time just because it felt like... In the last five years or 10 years, I'll do a benefit or I'll MC something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'll get off stage and go, well, that was fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But knowing full well, well, that's not really stand-up.
Guest:That was a very specialized audience.
Guest:And the minute you weren't having fun, you could say, yeah, let me bring on the mayor now.
Guest:Yeah, glad to help out.
Guest:Yeah, glad to help out.
Guest:God bless the children, which is not the same as I got to do 20 minutes.
Guest:New material and that shit.
Guest:But it was time after time.
Guest:I go, my goodness, that's fun in a way that other things are not.
Guest:And it's uncluttered.
Guest:And so I just thought, I'm going to go do that.
Guest:It was actually on my birthday.
Guest:It was in March.
Guest:And I just said to my wife, what do you want to do?
Guest:I said, yeah.
Guest:come with me to the comedy club okay it was like you know it was like let's go to like to a cliff and make out it was like we haven't done this in 30 years yeah well let's do that let's just sit in the car and neck my wife yeah and who i met in a comedy club she was a waitress in a comedy club so no really yeah which one it was in the in pittsburgh it was the pittsburgh uh it was called the funny bone
Marc:It's still there, I believe.
Guest:I don't think so.
Marc:There's definitely another funny bond.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:They did.
Marc:They moved it.
Guest:You're right.
Marc:There's not one in Pittsburgh.
Guest:I know they moved the location to a much more upscale thing.
Guest:It was on a dead highway.
Guest:It was a horrible thing.
Guest:But the story among, I think it was Larry Miller, who said the fact that...
Guest:I married a comic.
Guest:People always say, oh, a waitress, you know, because for a comic, you know what that means.
Guest:Like, all right, so we'll have a nice Thursday in Cleveland.
Guest:You know, I'll have a nice couple of nights in Houston.
Marc:Who are you following?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And so the joke was the fact that we hit it off and the marriage relationship succeeded.
Guest:We've been together 30 years.
Guest:The fact that that happened will keep comics getting laid on the road for 50 years.
Guest:So I'm glad to help out, again, to help the youngsters in any way I can.
Guest:30 years.
Marc:So you were how old when you met her?
Guest:We met in 80... Almost 30 years.
Marc:We met in 82.
Marc:Now, so you'd been... Because it seems to me that you... If you got Diner when you were 24... The same year.
Marc:It seems to me that you weren't doing comedy that long.
Marc:I wasn't.
Marc:I wasn't.
Guest:No, it actually happened... It was, you know, they...
Guest:And the casting directors would come to the clubs.
Guest:To comic strip?
Guest:To the club, yeah, in the city.
Guest:So improv and comedy.
Guest:They'd make the rounds, and they would sometimes just see if there's anybody appealing out there.
Guest:And sometimes, very specifically, they're looking for this look or this thing.
Guest:And...
Marc:I don't know if it's still... It must be just so... Everything's broken apart now.
Marc:I mean, they can just go online and see anybody.
Marc:There's no way to be discovered anymore.
Marc:Yeah, or you can constantly discover it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But at the time, you know, and they used to actually synchronize it and they would say, you know, we're doing a movie about blah, blah, blah.
Guest:We need guys who are, you know, whatever, six foot two.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the clubs would put on all their six foot two guys or put on their best guys.
Guest:And when they were casting Diner, they actually were looking for, I don't know what they put out, but I was under the radar.
Guest:I wasn't even on the club's radar like, well, you should see Paul.
Guest:So I think they came in and looked at some guys.
Guest:They weren't looking for indecisive Jews?
Guest:No, I talked them into that.
Guest:Well, but it's funny.
Guest:And actually, the next day, my buddy, Michael Hampton Kane, did you know him?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah, and he was no longer with us.
Guest:And he was, I don't think he auditioned, but he was to go down and audition for the director and drop off his picture.
Guest:And we were going.
Guest:And I just went with him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:We were on our way somewhere else.
Guest:He said, what are you doing today?
Guest:I said, I got to go to Macy's.
Guest:This was the story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have to go to Macy's.
Guest:I got to buy socks.
Guest:I suddenly woke up.
Guest:I said, I got no socks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, where do you go?
Guest:Macy's, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he said, well, I'm going four blocks from there.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Come with me.
Guest:Drop off this picture and I'll take a walk.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And as I was waiting in the thing, in the office, the casting director said, all right, where's your picture?
Guest:I said, no, no, I'm just waiting for my friend inside.
Guest:And she said, we'll come back tomorrow, bring a picture.
Guest:So it was absolutely an accident, but it basically came out of them coming to look.
Guest:But it's funny, you said, you're talking indecisive Jews, because I had just started...
Guest:uh taking an acting class so i was you know oh now i'm auditioning for a movie i will show all my technique and my voice and my and in fact the biggest chunk of my act as it were i mean it was at that time yeah it was about diners in greek diners in new york and the greek you know and just from the coffee and the waiters and just diner crap yeah and
Guest:And so I was, there was no part, there was nothing to audition.
Guest:And Barry Levinson, the director, said, well, we'll just talk.
Guest:And I think I read some scene and he said, well, you don't have to act it.
Guest:I said, well, if I don't act it, then it just sounds like I'm some guy having coffee in a diner.
Guest:He said, well, that's what I actually kind of need.
Guest:I went, is that right?
Guest:So you did the bit?
Guest:Yeah, so we started talking.
Guest:I don't know if I even did the bit or we just started talking.
Guest:Did you do a conversational?
Marc:Yeah, well, it was this.
Guest:We literally started talking and we were talking about comedy and, you know, and...
Guest:I know that now, having been on the other side of the couch, you know, as a producer and you're casting something, you want somebody to hit the scene and nail it, but you get just as much out of talking to them just in conversation.
Guest:You go, okay, I see the way the person's mind works or I see a sparkle in their eye.
Guest:And you can get...
Guest:what you like or don't like about them without a script have you casted people that uh that didn't do the scene well just because you liked them um well ultimately you have to be able to to to deliver but there have been people that you go okay based on the scene reading it's not like it was head and shoulders above the last guy right but sitting in conversation yeah you go okay you know what i like this person there's something there's funny there's a funny brain or there's
Guest:Sometimes it works the other way.
Guest:Something they wouldn't have wanted you to see, like an insecurity or the way they tripped up and got insecure.
Guest:Okay, that's really engaging.
Guest:That's really fun.
Marc:You see something's revealed in that moment where you're like, oh, yeah, that's in there.
Guest:Yeah, and I've learned that.
Guest:And I remember, and I've told this to...
Guest:to people coming in and auditions.
Guest:And somebody had said this to me, too.
Guest:When you go in as an actor, you think, oh, God, I just want this.
Guest:I hope they like me.
Guest:And they're going, they're never rooting against you.
Guest:They are always hoping, please be the guy.
Guest:Nothing would make them happier for you to be it.
Guest:So you need to bring that in with you and think, for all I know, I'm it.
Marc:And you don't give them reasons not to hire you.
Marc:Don't sit out in the room and watch the guy before you walk out and go, oh, fuck.
Marc:Look how happy that guy is.
Marc:He killed it.
Marc:Oh, he's got it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That happens to everybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I think the question that I was moving towards was that... Were you moving towards the question?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Is that it seemed that you got success pretty quickly and that your comedy career as a stand-up was relatively a small window, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I... Was that your goal?
Marc:Was it to be a TV thing?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It was the longest far down the road...
Guest:You thought you were just going to be a comic.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I thought that the payoffs were, you know, when I started, actually, what helped propel me to even go into the comedy club when I was still in college was seeing guys like Freddie Prinze, Gabe Kaplan, Jimmy Walker, and if you go back, you know, that far...
Guest:And suddenly I saw that there was a route to follow.
Guest:Okay, so if you go to these clubs and you start to get a stand-up act, then you go on the talk shows, then you get a sitcom, and then movies and blah, and then you're... But you saw all that.
Guest:Yeah, but it wasn't, I want to do comedy as short as possible and then get the hell out.
Guest:I always loved comedy, but I...
Guest:just had this vague sense of you jump into this pool and you start swimming as fast as you can and you'll end up you know and that's not a pool you'll end up on the other side of whatever would you study in college music and and you know business minor but I was music I was didn't know I wasn't planning to do anything with that but either of them no I
Guest:No, I don't know what the hell I was doing.
Guest:You just had parents that were relatively supportive.
Guest:No, I played piano.
Guest:I was a musician and I was a composer, so I wanted to do that.
Guest:And then sort of the nod to being responsible.
Guest:That'll placate them.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So that's like what?
Marc:73 to 77.
Marc:Now, as a composer, I just want to know, there must have been some vision there.
Marc:I mean, it's 70 what?
Marc:73 to 77.
Marc:So what were you sitting at the piano doing?
Guest:Well, I was always, I mean, as a kid, I studied classical music, but I didn't, I never, and I was never, you know, particularly good.
Guest:I was good for a guy who does people who don't play piano.
Guest:You know, if you pick 10 kids, which guy plays?
Guest:That guy, he's good.
Guest:He's like, well, he can play a whole song.
Guest:You know, but if you get a room full of guys who actually play, he's like, I ain't in that group.
Guest:So, um, but like, were you going to write the symphony?
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's a good question.
Guest:I didn't really, I, I, I guess in my dream, and I still have this in the back of my head, I would love to write some great orchestral symphonic thing or a great movie score.
Guest:But I remember in the time at the time, again, it's like, who's out there and it influences you in the seventies.
Guest:And when I was in college, um,
Guest:Barry Manilow broke big.
Guest:And that wasn't always going to be Barry Manilow.
Guest:But I remember reading that he came out of commercials.
Guest:And he was a jingle writer and arranger and everything else.
Guest:So I thought, oh, maybe that's the way in.
Guest:Into what?
Guest:I don't even know.
Guest:And I knew somebody, a friend of the family, who was a big guy at an advertising thing.
Guest:And I've seen it happen with dozens of friends and kids of my friends who will approach and like, I am
Guest:feeling i'm 21 what do you want to do so i i asked for a meeting with this guy who was the head of the music department at some big new york ad agency and i said you know i'm a music major i'm thinking and that looks fun um and he said to me it is the most competitive thing if there's anything else that you could possibly do do that i went okay good glad i asked
Guest:You didn't compose any jingles.
Guest:No, no, not even one, but I just thought, I don't know.
Guest:I got one for Hershey's Chocolate.
Guest:Just listen.
Guest:But I just thought, okay, maybe that's how you sort of get into the world.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But two things I learned from that.
Guest:One is that advice, again, is just like, you know, just do it.
Guest:To take someone and say, hey, if there's anything else you can do, do that.
Guest:That's going to weed you out.
Guest:So a lot of people go, oh, yeah, I certainly don't want to work that hard.
Guest:Okay, then you ain't going to make it.
Guest:And that's true for acting.
Guest:It's true for business.
Guest:It's like if there's anything else you can do, business is very hard.
Guest:Maybe don't do it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, it's like, well, it's all hard.
Marc:But, you know, a lot of people, though, are so, you know, there's a certain type of infantile entitlement and delusion that comes with pursuing any career in show business.
Marc:So there are going to be people that you tell that to, and they're like, that ain't me.
Marc:That's not, I mean, I'm special.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, but it's fine.
Guest:And by the way, whether it's delusion or whatever it is that keeps you in...
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:You got to do what you're going to do anyway.
Marc:So you didn't go with jingles, and you thought Barry... I remember this.
Guest:I remember seeing...
Guest:i kept god i haven't thought of this in a thousand years um i remember um i kept seeing marvin hamlisch's name sure and because but but in a weird way yeah well but even before the sting yeah i remember seeing he was like on groucho's live album he was his piano player or and he'd somebody else and he listened to groucho's records yeah yeah and and his he as like he seemed to like be the house pianist for show business yeah well this guy and then the sting and it became i don't
Guest:Maybe this thing was earlier.
Guest:The house piano player for show business.
Guest:Yeah, it's like, well, everyone uses this guy.
Guest:And then they found it.
Guest:It was Barbra Streisand's play.
Guest:And then I remember I was a senior, junior, senior in college.
Guest:And he was now scoring film.
Guest:So it must have been after this thing, sure.
Guest:And he was doing a big James Bond movie.
Guest:And I wrote him some letter.
Guest:And I was thinking, and I've gotten this request too recently.
Guest:I wrote, do you need an assistant?
Guest:Can I just basically watch?
Guest:What is it like to score movies?
Guest:Maybe I could copy the music for you, get coffee.
Guest:You throw it out there.
Guest:Did he write that?
Guest:Got a letter back.
Guest:And I remember getting it on James Bond stationery.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was on the air mail, you know, those little blue ones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was like Octopussy or whatever the heck it was.
Guest:And I went...
Guest:why am I getting James Bond?
Guest:And I opened it up.
Guest:It was handwritten.
Guest:Couldn't have been sweeter.
Guest:And, you know, no, I'm not looking for a system, but, you know, you might try such, I think you must, you know, try advertising agents, try this and good luck and just keep doing it.
Guest:And I thought, well, A, this guy is aces forever.
Guest:It took five minutes to write to a kid in college.
Guest:Did you ever meet him?
Guest:I did.
Guest:And I shared that story.
Guest:And what did he say?
Guest:And he said, stop bothering me.
Guest:You know what's funny?
Guest:I did meet him backstage and I shared that and he was very nice and he knew me at this point.
Guest:And then actually a month ago,
Guest:I was on a plane.
Guest:I was flying New York to here.
Guest:And I'm sitting next to him.
Guest:But I didn't know.
Guest:And I got on the plane.
Guest:I said, that guy looks like Marvin Hamlisch.
Guest:And the back of my head goes, idiot.
Guest:Not every guy who looks like Marvin Hamlisch is Marvin Hamlisch.
Guest:So I didn't say anything.
Guest:And then someone asked, as I got off, do you see Marvin Hamlisch was sitting next to him?
Guest:No.
Guest:I can't believe I snubbed him.
Guest:He didn't recognize you either.
Guest:No, that's true.
Guest:Yeah, sorry.
Marc:He was sleeping so but but you did have sort of a Business sensibility about show business was just impressive.
Guest:Yeah in your early 20s that you saw that there was some way to move well, I think you just do anything you know and I I got a good buddy a Kid of a good buddy of mine who recently said the same thing kind you know just come out and
Guest:It's like, well, yeah, but walking around and following me in the house is not going to help you.
Guest:Get on a show.
Guest:We'll see if we can get you something.
Guest:And I tell my kids.
Guest:My kids are much younger.
Guest:But, yeah, just every experience is fruitful, even if it's not what you want to do.
Guest:But if it helps you eliminate, you know, when you're 20.
Guest:You've got to make mistakes.
Guest:Make mistakes and realize, yeah, I don't want to do that.
Guest:Now I know what I don't want to do, and you eliminate it.
Marc:Were your parents always supportive of you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I think skeptical because, like, wow, who... It's concerned mostly, though, I think, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah, for, you know, very conventional middle-class people.
Guest:And my dad had a very successful business.
Guest:He was a health foods wholesaler in a business that he started.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They had health food back then?
Guest:Yeah, he was... And he was not a particularly health nut guy.
Guest:He just stumbled into this thing that for 25 years was not a moneymaker.
Guest:It was like, you know, delivering salt-free food, salt-free, sugar-free foods to old people and, you know, and...
Guest:Health food nuts, they were called.
Guest:They're crazy people.
Guest:And then suddenly it became big business.
Marc:In the early 70s, right?
Guest:He was there.
Guest:Yeah, late 60s, early 70s.
Marc:Like just anything?
Marc:Like it was just a wholesaler?
Guest:Yeah, so everything in a health food store.
Guest:He had a wig warehouse and he delivered.
Marc:Was there a lot of this sort of like, try this at home?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Here's a case of dented cashews.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But he loved business.
Guest:And it could have been literally widgets or anything else.
Guest:He just loved...
Guest:Moving stuff, yeah.
Guest:Moving stuff and creating something and getting better at it and being efficient at it.
Guest:And he was great at it.
Guest:And so there was always a presumption that I would follow and get into the business.
Guest:And I used to work my summers there and I loved...
Guest:I didn't really love the business.
Guest:I had a fondness for the business because that's where my dad was.
Guest:So I liked being with him and I liked his world.
Guest:But I remember when I had the moment of clarity and realized I wanted to be a comic and I had to sort of explain it to him and tell him, by the way, I need to actually not come into business.
Guest:I'm going to leave.
Guest:It wasn't even someday.
Guest:I was like, I'm actually going to leave where I currently am.
Guest:And I remember being able to explain it to him
Guest:I mean, I was leaving anyway, but I wanted him to get it.
Guest:And I had to compare it to the way he started.
Guest:It's like, you started your thing from scratch.
Guest:And so it's not that you love the Hellfuss, but that you got to make it.
Guest:Well, that's what I want to do.
Guest:I'm going to start from absolute scratch and see what happens.
Guest:And it's funny because he has been doing stand-up.
Guest:And now, literally today, I was putting together...
Guest:I said, let me just try another five minutes.
Guest:And I had two vague ideas.
Guest:And I worked on it in a way that I haven't done ever.
Guest:If I did, it was 30 years ago.
Guest:But it's like, OK, literally put that sentence here.
Guest:Now say it out loud.
Guest:And I went, wow, starting from zero is really
Guest:hard and noble work i mean in any endeavor it's like to make something where there was formerly nothing is magic does it do you is there any part of you that fights it i mean because when i sit down the right i does oh yeah there's napping there's oh there's a yeah paint something yes i gotta paint my neighbor's garage that looks nasty um yes of course what was your father's response though i mean well he got it i mean he got it and when he realized that
Guest:it wasn't just i want to be a comedian just so i can you know uh stay out late and you know piss him off yeah yeah it wasn't it certainly wasn't that yeah but it wasn't like wow this is fun staying up late you know because he goes well you're out meeting girls and you're you know and you're you've got some cash in your pocket but is that a future when he when he was able to realize that i likened it to his starting a business he went all right man you know listen what can i a he got it but even if he didn't he was like well i
Guest:why fight him why fight it's like you know i see it with my kids already don't tell them but you know they're 10 to 15 and i realize i can't they're gonna do what they're gonna do yeah and if you fight them they're just gonna hate you while they do it it was a great there's a great line in the sopranos once where tony and carmel are in bed and they're going through whatever issue with the daughter
Guest:And he goes, well, don't tell her that we don't.
Guest:He goes, because if she finds out we got no power, we're screwed.
Guest:And it's like, do not let them know that.
Guest:It's like, well, we don't have any power.
Guest:You have some guidance and you can take stuff away from a little kid.
Marc:It's amazing what you can learn from mob movies.
Marc:Like The Godfather and The Godfather 2 have all the life lessons.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And they were both, yeah, very impactful on me.
Guest:Certainly The Godfather.
Guest:But...
Guest:But he got it and was very happy.
Guest:Did he think you were funny?
Guest:You know, everybody in my family was funny.
Guest:I don't think I was... I wasn't necessarily funnier than anybody in my family.
Guest:And your mom was cool, too?
Guest:Yeah, my mom was happy that I... You know, yes.
Guest:But it's funny.
Guest:My family is funny.
Guest:You know, Jews are funny.
Guest:And so, you know, I didn't stand out in my house.
Guest:I...
Guest:I pursued it.
Guest:I would be the ones that bring home George Carlin records and Mel Brooks records.
Guest:My sisters weren't doing that.
Guest:My father wasn't.
Guest:But yeah, so it wasn't like, oh my gosh, this is so funny.
Guest:To him, it was like, well, I just root for your success.
Marc:What was the moment that the catalyst, so when you said you knew you wanted to be a comic, who were you watching in that time?
Marc:You listened to Groucho records, which is- No, that was in college.
Guest:I had, after college,
Guest:In college, actually, I started doing stand-up, like, during the summers, once, twice, three times.
Guest:And then after college, I started going full out at the comedy clubs, a comic strip mostly, for about a year.
Guest:And then I gave it, you know, that was my deal with my dad.
Guest:I'm going to do that for a year.
Guest:And then I'm going to go into the business and give this up.
Guest:And then I was about six months in, or not even, three months doing that fully, and I was on the road for him, you know, in business.
Guest:And I just had a moment of quiet thinking.
Guest:I realized...
Guest:this is not what I want to do.
Guest:I'm sitting here in Texas, and I actually can't wait to get back to New York.
Marc:You were doing a road gig.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was in sales on the road.
Guest:But truly, it was that I had some quiet for the first time.
Guest:You had a noisy household, and then you're in college with 1,000 kids, and then you're in comedy clubs, and I had never really been on my own.
Guest:So just sitting in a hotel room and hearing my own brain for a second went, you know what?
Guest:It's very clear.
Guest:This is not what I want to do.
Guest:You were there on a sales trip for your father?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I was sort of learning the business from that vantage point.
Guest:But just having a little quiet time, I realized, yes, okay, I can see now this is something I'm doing to either satisfy my parents or to be conventional, to be safe.
Guest:It's the safe bet, the far less safe bet.
Guest:I'm going to roll my dice into show business and hope I get...
Guest:But what I was able to realize is I'm never going to be happy if I don't at least pursue it to the end.
Guest:Because it's not like I had tried and didn't like it.
Guest:It's not like I tried and was discouraged.
Guest:The short while, the one year that I'd been on, all I learned was, wow, I really love this.
Guest:And wow, I could probably be really good if I...
Marc:gave it my all and you had a from the beginning it seems that you had a fairly unique style that there was guys in your class uh who i see as is larry yourself jerry seinfeld right around the same time yeah uh larry david but he was over i was a little ahead earlier than us yeah but he was you know on again off again kind of right he was uh he was his own thing what was his reputation then do you remember him
Marc:Yeah, he was always... He's great to watch.
Guest:Everybody knew he was powerfully funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he was sort of the class a little earlier.
Guest:And Mark Schiff, right?
Guest:And Mark Schiff was in Carol Liefer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Rich Hall was that grouping.
Guest:And I'm trying to think who else.
Guest:I mean...
Marc:So it was a generation after Freddie Prinze gave Kaplan and those guys.
Marc:Yeah, it was a good generation.
Marc:Richard Lewis?
Guest:Richard Lewis was before it was established.
Marc:So you're like in between me and them, your generation.
Guest:Yeah, but you know, it's like immigration.
Marc:There's always another boat coming.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So after the Dutch, before the French.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:yeah but it's it's sort of interesting to me because you had like there was a lot of guys doing observational comedy but you had a very definable tone there was something about your presentation that was uniquely yours and uh and there's also do you find now i now i don't i don't talk about this a lot but i talk about it sometimes i have this theory about uh about the tone of comedy you know up through the 80s there's a lot of jews doing it there was a lot of jewish comedians uh-huh
Marc:And they all had, you know, I'm Jewish myself, and I gravitated towards Jewish comics.
Marc:And I have this theory that once Prozac became popular, that people no longer believed that we could be that uncomfortable.
Marc:Is that possible?
Guest:So, pharmaceutically, the business was altered.
Marc:Yeah, it was altered because it's like, how can he still be complaining they have medicine for that?
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know, that's interesting.
Guest:I mean, I've read Woody Allen and Neil Simon talk about specifically that.
Guest:Neil Simon talked about, you know, for years he never wanted to see a therapist because he thought quite frankly and clearly, no, I'll lose my funny, that my problems are just my funny.
Guest:And then he was smart enough to realize that, no, you can actually get healthy and eliminate some of your pain and still tap into, you know, whatever.
Guest:You know, Woody Allen for sure.
Yeah.
Guest:So there's some truth measure.
Marc:Did you ever meet Woody Allen?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I actually did a play he directed off-Broadway a couple years ago.
Marc:Was that a big moment for you?
Guest:Yeah, and it was the craziest gig in the world.
Guest:I got a call, and he said, Woody Allen wants you to come and be in this play that he's directing, a series of two one acts in a little theater.
Guest:What year was this?
Guest:03.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Well, eight years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember...
Guest:And I was here, and we had two kids, and I said, well, I'm not, you know.
Guest:And I said to my wife, I said, well, I'm really flattered.
Guest:He said, you listen to this.
Guest:I said, listen to what I'm not going to do.
Guest:But I was just like, what do you mean?
Guest:Woody Allen heard of me?
Guest:I'm astounded right there.
Guest:Stop there.
Marc:This is after Matt about you and everything else.
Guest:But that wasn't my modesty.
Guest:I wouldn't presume for a second that he watches television.
Guest:He's Woody Allen.
Marc:He just sits around being Woody Allen.
Guest:He goes to Elaine's and he reads, you know, Proust.
Guest:So, yeah, I just wouldn't believe that my world would pass by his world.
Guest:And by the way, as I sit here and say that, I don't know that it had.
Guest:It's very possible somebody said, watch this tape of this guy.
Guest:You might like him.
Guest:You know, it's like he may not have.
Guest:But whatever it was, I got the call.
Guest:And my wife, bless her, said, you got to go do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, but it's three months and I'm going to be in New York.
Guest:And, you know, $9.
Guest:You know, not making any money.
Guest:And she said, well, we'll bring the kids.
Guest:My kids were littler, obviously, at the time.
Guest:And they could come.
Guest:So it was the most expensive gig because I took a really nice hotel room in New York for three months.
Guest:And I made $140 a week.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:But I said, I can't pass up this opportunity to work with Woody.
Guest:And in fact, I've spoken to people who have been in his films.
Guest:And I said, well, that must be exciting.
Guest:What's that like?
Guest:It's great, but he doesn't give you anything.
Guest:He casts you and he trusts you and then he leaves you alone.
Guest:So there's no real give and take.
Guest:This was a thousand times better than that.
Guest:This was sitting in a room like in college.
Guest:When I did silly-ass plays in college, it was that.
Guest:It wasn't even a big theater.
Guest:We worked in a little warehouse rehearsal room.
Guest:Then we went to the theater, which was not that much bigger, and it felt like you were in college.
Guest:It was this little theater.
Guest:And I thought, my God.
Guest:And Woody, it was joyful.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:You did feel like you got a sense of him?
Guest:Yes, because you were... It wasn't... You know, if you meet somebody and you're nervous and you're... This was... You're having lunch every day and you're sitting and you're telling jokes and you're reading the paper and you're suddenly, you know, and you're talking about stuff in the news together or you're talking about... Yeah, really?
Guest:And I remember there's one point that... Well, the...
Guest:There's a lot of wonderful highlights.
Guest:And a lot of it, the other actors and I would just look at this one guy.
Guest:My thing was basically a two-hander.
Guest:It was mostly two guys, and there was one woman who came in at the end.
Guest:But most of the time, he and I were rehearsing.
Guest:We just look at each other going, do you believe it?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's Woody Allen.
Guest:That's Woody Allen.
Guest:And then he would come backstage and give us notes.
Guest:And sometimes they were theatrical acting notes, but more often they were what you would do listening to a set.
Guest:He had absolutely had the stand-up comic ear.
Guest:And he would come over and he would make a change.
Guest:Sometimes he'd make a cut, but sometimes it would be more like just change this word, change this line.
Guest:And he would...
Guest:It was so refreshing to see how pure his ear was and his heart was.
Marc:To rhythm and beats in comedy.
Guest:Yeah, and how much he cared about it.
Guest:And he would come back, you know, on a crap.
Guest:We had two or three weeks, I guess, three weeks of, not run-throughs.
Guest:Previews.
Guest:Previews.
Guest:Previews.
Guest:That's how theater-oriented I am.
Guest:What's the word?
Guest:Previews.
Guest:So basically, they don't count, and you get to iron out, and they're not reviewed.
Guest:And so we'd have an audience, and then he'd come backstage right after with his notes.
Guest:And he'd say, why didn't that line work?
Guest:I don't understand.
Guest:It worked yesterday, and it didn't work today.
Guest:And I go, what are you, kidding?
Guest:How long you been doing this?
Guest:It's a week.
Marc:Is there a part where you're like, relax, Woody?
Guest:No, but I loved seeing how upset he was, but it was like a child in the best sense.
Guest:It's like, oh my gosh, well, we're going to chase that for the rest of our lives, hopefully.
Guest:It's like, why didn't it get a laugh?
Guest:And then when the show previews ended and we actually opened, he didn't come every night.
Guest:And I turned to the other guy and said, why are we doing this now?
Guest:For 99 people?
Guest:I'm not with my family?
Guest:For $40?
Guest:I was only doing it to play with Woody.
Guest:Yeah, I was paying for this trip so I could hang out with Woody Allen.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And it was a joy.
Guest:And I remember one night, you just didn't get laughs.
Guest:And you could just feel like, okay.
Guest:And he came backstage like a coach.
Guest:Just kind of goes, okay, relax.
Guest:That was... I almost did Peter Falk.
Guest:I don't have a way out.
Guest:He goes...
Guest:They were rubes.
Guest:They were farmers.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:I was like, okay.
Guest:They were rubes and farmers.
Guest:Rubes and farmers.
Guest:That's why.
Guest:That was his understanding of why they didn't laugh tonight.
Marc:Now, as somebody who clearly was a fan of his for so long...
Marc:Were you surprised?
Marc:Because sometimes when I meet people that I respect, and even, like, I just read the Keith Richards autobiography, and it actually made him a bigger presence to me.
Marc:Like, you were completely... It made him a more whole person.
Marc:You weren't disappointed in anyone.
Guest:No, it's... I wasn't disappointed.
Guest:In fact, it was... You know, I've been really blessed, and I've gotten to meet and work with idols, you know, and...
Guest:and I sound so showbizny at Sammy Davis to say, I meant Sammy Davis was, but to say I'm blessed, but I really, I mean, if I take stock of my life or when it's all over, I go, well, those are among my greatest memories and senses of accomplishment, not just that you meet them, but to somehow, it wasn't by happenstance.
Guest:It's like that I feel some way
Guest:managed to earn it and get to play.
Guest:So when Mel Brooks came on to Mad About You for four episodes and Jerry Lewis and Carl Reiner and Sid Caesar, we would just all pinch ourselves.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:You were saying before, these people who you, and they were even before, Mel, I mean, certainly Sid was before my time, but
Guest:I grew up on the 2,000-year-old man records.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So to have them, and specifically Mel come and do, basically creates this character that is basically the old Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were just, my God.
Guest:And it rounds them out, and it sort of connects the dots for me, because it doesn't in any way diminish...
Guest:uh who they were and how much i loved them and and how much i was formed by them um but rather it's like okay it it fills in the dots like okay there's people too and wow okay they can get cranky yeah yeah you know if they don't eat they're gonna be this way and like you know what he's a little that way she's a little that way yeah
Marc:You know, I saw... They're just people that do... You're in the same business as them.
Marc:And they had the same problem.
Guest:I remember... You will like this.
Guest:I remember a thousand years ago, during My Two Dads.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we had Jan Murray.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Was a guest star.
Marc:I only knew him as the center square, one of the squares.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, actually, one week he was on... Maybe he was on a couple...
Guest:But anyway, this one particular week, and their guest stars were Jan Murray and Willie Mays.
Guest:So I was like my cup running over.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Willie came in for a four-hour shoot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And basically the story was Jan played my uncle, who was supposed to have gotten Mickey Mantle.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:He's supposed to have gotten Willie Mays at a birthday party when I was a kid.
Guest:And he messed it up.
Guest:And now he said it to my kid.
Guest:And I said, you better not, you know, don't make any promises.
Guest:Or he doesn't produce who he said he was going to for the kid.
Guest:But he says, I owe you 20 years late or 30 years late, but here's Willie Mays.
Guest:But anyway, so Jan Murray was there, and we were rehearsing.
Guest:And he was, a couple of mornings, he went on a roll of just a comic thing.
Guest:And he would just start spritzing.
Guest:And I remember one time, he just, I don't know what it was.
Guest:He was making fun of somebody who would walk by, and he got a laugh.
Guest:And then he built that in another laugh.
Guest:And boom.
Guest:And within a minute, we're just rolling on the floor.
Guest:And he stands up like Ali standing over Liston.
Guest:He goes, and that's what they call a roll.
Guest:And, and, but the story I was trying to, I was trying to get to was one night it was like six o'clock and he was tired and, you know, he was in his sixties or seventies and he, he said, well, I said, when are we going to get out of here?
Guest:Cause I got to do a thing for Milton at the Friars tonight.
Guest:I said, what?
Guest:He goes, yeah.
Guest:I like,
Guest:Damn it.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They wrote me in again.
Guest:I got to go to the front.
Guest:I hope I get on early.
Guest:I do not want to go on after Milton.
Guest:And I just said, are you kidding me?
Guest:Are you telling me this never ends?
Guest:You're 74.
Guest:You're looking at your watch going, please don't put me on after the guy.
Guest:I don't want to go on after Milton.
Guest:And he's going to do the same jokes.
Guest:I went, oh, man.
Guest:And it was this very...
Guest:uh gratifying to be in this wonderful club and i don't just mean comics but just this club of humanity yeah we're like no matter how big you get yeah you're yeah you know so john lennon still wants to meet chug berry okay he still might have to follow yeah like i don't want to go on first i don't want to go on for i don't want to go on last can i go on third yeah
Guest:So to know that these imperfections are there for everybody is very heartwarming to me.
Marc:Yeah, that's sweet.
Marc:Now, yeah, you've had a very sweet career, and with Matt about you- I'm hoping that this today will kill it.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:This is a rebirth.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:I misunderstood.
Guest:I only came because I wanted to put an end to it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'll try it.
Marc:Well, let's see what happens.
Marc:I'm open.
Marc:I'm open.
Marc:We can do it.
Marc:A rebirth.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So I remember there was a moment.
Marc:I remember having known you from diner, and then I don't remember when Aliens.
Marc:Was it the second Aliens or the first one?
Marc:The second one, 85.
Marc:The second one.
Marc:All right.
Guest:It was three years after.
Marc:Right, because I saw this funny guy, and then me and my friends, we see aliens, and we're like, Paul Reyes is serious now.
Marc:He's doing serious acting.
Marc:Can he do it?
Marc:Can he do it?
Marc:And you did it.
Marc:You were creepy.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:But you still had a little bit of funny in there.
Guest:But that was, you know, somebody said, well, what's your plan now?
Guest:And I said, well, there's no plan.
Guest:I don't have a plan.
Guest:I don't know anybody who's ever really had a plan.
Guest:And...
Guest:Certainly in show business.
Guest:But you wanted to do movies.
Guest:Well, but, you know, wanted to, but I also wanted to go out with Bo Derek.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, the phone didn't ring.
Guest:Probably lucky you didn't.
Guest:It worked out well.
Guest:But really, you take whatever opportunity.
Guest:So I...
Guest:Kind of I wasn't working that hard at getting movies.
Guest:I literally diner as I said it's told but that was a big part for a comment It was a huge part and a huge it wasn't you know Porky's 9 it wasn't some it this was a as a turn and I believe me I didn't know that yeah I didn't I just showed you know somebody sent me a script and I had the MGM lion and on it and everything went wow This is a real movie.
Guest:Okay, sure.
Guest:Where do I go?
Guest:Yeah, same thing you know and and each the sort of thing begat another and right and out of that
Guest:Having seen Diner, Marty Brest, when he was casting Beverly Hills Cop, had an idea for one little scene he wanted me to be in and was like, well, sure.
Guest:So I got to be with Eddie Murphy and who I already knew and that was great fun.
Guest:And two years later, Jim Cameron's on a plane and he sees Beverly Hills Cop and he sees me.
Guest:And he thought, huh, that guy might be right for Aliens.
Guest:So they called me.
Guest:I don't know, you know, it wasn't any brilliant agent.
Guest:Right, right, right, right.
Guest:Because he had an inkling.
Guest:So when I got that phone call, like, okay, can you, well, can you act?
Guest:It's like, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I've been in plays.
Guest:I mean, I don't feel the need to have to make this funny.
Guest:I, you know, I get them.
Guest:I read it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:Oh, just, just be a guy.
Guest:And, and in fact, the casting of that was incredible.
Guest:his thought was, I want to get somebody who I can hopefully bury the lead.
Guest:We can delay as long as possible the fact that he's going to turn out to be the villain of the piece and that he's a young guy.
Guest:But in fact, people go, asshole, right off the bat.
Guest:That's the guy.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:He's an asshole.
Guest:But it wasn't, my God, I've got to do Shakespeare in the Park or I've got to do Dramatic.
Guest:It's like, what?
Guest:Somebody gave me a job?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'll go there.
Guest:And then when Mad About You happened, I mean, did you... When Mad About You, I did...
Guest:you know, create and, and, you know, someone talking before about, uh, I created it with, with Danny Jacobson, uh, together, but, but that came, that was a deliberate thing.
Guest:Um, right.
Marc:It was, it was a pitch.
Guest:You, you created with the, but it was, but it was, I was talking before about like, you learn, you should try everything because you'll find what you'd like to do and you can also eliminate.
Guest:So I had been writing sort of the lineages with, you know, when Barry Levinson had suggested to somebody at CBS that I write, um,
Guest:an episode of Diner the series was going to be a pilot.
Guest:It was a pilot.
Guest:And so I wrote an episode of the show that it never went.
Guest:But I started getting into writing, and I wrote a bunch of pilots over the years.
Guest:And I wrote one pilot for, and it almost went at NBC and it didn't.
Guest:And then that same, but they said, but here's this other script for my two dads.
Guest:And I went, oh, and I didn't particularly, you know, an offense to, with no disrespect to anybody there.
Guest:I was like, I don't really want to do this, but probably won't go.
Guest:So I'll just shoot a pilot, make some money.
Guest:And then I found out a win.
Guest:I went, oh, oh gosh.
Guest:Now I'm that guy.
Guest:Now I'm, yeah, okay.
Guest:I mean, it's like, you know, you don't want to poo-poo work, but it's like, wow, I didn't really, I didn't plan to do this.
Guest:Were you upset about it?
Guest:I was surprised.
Guest:I went, I literally, I remember it was a month after we made the pilot and my manager called and said, well, it got picked up.
Guest:I said, what did?
Guest:He said, the pilot.
Guest:I said, what pilot?
Guest:He goes, the thing you, that, really?
Guest:They're going to go with that?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But was there that moment where you're like, I'm going to be that guy?
Guest:Well, I didn't have a real, no, I don't want to be so arrogant or egotistic.
Guest:It wasn't like I was above anything.
Guest:It just didn't particularly appeal to my sensibilities.
Guest:It was a fine show, and it was a nice job, and hey, it's nice to get some recognition.
Guest:How long did it run?
Guest:three years, three seasons.
Guest:But in the beginning, I was fighting it because it wasn't...
Guest:didn't feel like what I could your voice me yeah I didn't and I didn't know how to I didn't particularly really want to be there yeah and it took me a while to get over that and just say you know what it's pretty darn good life and even if you're manufacturing a product that you yourself don't use in the home yeah it's still it's not a bad it's not napalm you know right it's not a bad product but the end result of that for me was
Guest:OK, if I'm ever going to do another TV show, I know what I want it to be.
Guest:And I don't want X, Y, and Z. I want it to be these other things.
Guest:And so when somebody came to me, it was like two years later, they wanted to develop something.
Guest:And I said, well, I don't know.
Guest:I didn't particularly want to.
Guest:Actually, I wanted to do stand-up.
Guest:And I was at that point, this is now late 80s, early 90s,
Guest:I was on a bit of a roll.
Guest:It was like I finally had hit a stride, I felt, of my stand-up.
Guest:And I was doing stuff about girlfriends and relationships and domestic stuff.
Guest:And it felt, I said, okay, this seems to be better for me.
Guest:This is right.
Guest:I didn't do it, again, on purpose.
Guest:It just, wow, this chunk of material is working better than airplanes.
Guest:I think this is your area.
Guest:You were living it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I said, well, if I was going to do a show, I said, I'd want it to be like this, so small, like about a couple.
Guest:and the stuff that I'm doing in my act.
Guest:And that's where Mad About You came from.
Guest:And the guideline for that, as big as it got, the guideline was always, let's keep it small.
Guest:It's about a man and a woman.
Guest:It's about a relationship.
Guest:It's a husband and wife.
Guest:So that was our running joke with Helen Hunt and I. We sometimes find ourselves in the silly, crazy thing.
Guest:We're in a virtual reality and Christie Brinkley is like, it's the little things.
Guest:It's just the little things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we did always stick to that.
Guest:No matter how crazy it got, what was always at the heart of it was these little things.
Guest:So that's where sort of they merged for me, where my stand-up and what I felt I was best at kind of merged and I was able to put forward.
Guest:And it worked.
Marc:It worked.
Marc:And that went for what, eight years, nine years?
Guest:Seven years.
Guest:But all the whole time I kept thinking if I could just do like a...
Guest:A radio show in the valley.
Guest:Deep, deep, deep in Pasadena.
Guest:With Mark Marone.
Guest:Then it'd be it.
Guest:That's it.
Marc:If I can get out myself out.
Marc:So your dream is all happening.
Marc:Yeah, that's why I don't need this to be a rebirth.
Marc:This is happy, a good funeral.
Marc:So then after that...
Marc:After mad about you, was there this time there when did you feel like then you were going to be typecast or pigeonholed or that was it?
Marc:Or did you feel like, I won, I'm done, I'm good?
Marc:I felt totally all those things.
Guest:I felt, gee, I won.
Guest:I certainly was able to count my blessings and good fortune.
Guest:And, you know...
Guest:There are plenty of good shows that don't hit that golden ring in that moment of time.
Guest:But just personally, I was happy to not be out there for a while.
Guest:I didn't have a plan like, gee, I want to stay low for seven years or ten years.
Guest:I was very content and wanted to stay home.
Guest:And we built this house and then we had a second kid.
Guest:So I thought, well, I just want to really just be home.
Guest:And you enjoyed it?
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And you weren't one of those people that was like, yeah, fuck.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, I was always doing something.
Guest:And I finally wrote the movie.
Guest:And I went out and made that movie with Peter.
Guest:I did, you know, one or two little parts of the movie when something came up.
Guest:And it was always, well, gee, the part or the, you know, the...
Guest:the people it's like well i got to do this thing with joe montagna it's like well i love joe and you're writing books too by the way you just put the third book out familyhood hey you know what thank you for mentioning that because that's why i'm sitting here to talk about the book i forgot for the hood series you've got the you had couplehood and then what was the other one child well for couplehood and then babyhood and now this family and they when i got the invitation to come write another book and i said well
Guest:And I knew what it was, what it was going to be.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I said, basically, it's a continuation, but it's 15 years since the last one, so it's a little deeper, and it's hopefully a little wiser, maybe not.
Guest:But they said, well, what are you going to call it?
Guest:And I said, well...
Guest:And I had 12 good titles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They said, nah, we like hood.
Guest:I went, God, it just sounds so, you know, jokingly predictable.
Guest:Yeah, well, you sold a lot of books with the hoods and a couple hood and a baby hood.
Guest:And I said, all right.
Guest:The tone's a little different here, though.
Guest:The tone of the book is different, but, you know, because I'm different.
Guest:You know, it's like, I mean, the last one, and I even put in the preface of the book, it was, you know, the last one, my son was...
Guest:I think I wrote it, he was a year old, and so it's still all fascinating and horrifying and mystifying and all these things.
Guest:And I never dreamed during all the time, like, go off and write a book.
Guest:It's like, wow, that's 15 years.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Life has changed so much.
Guest:You know, many ways, a different guy.
Guest:You know, you can't be a parent for 15 years and be the same person.
Guest:So it was very different.
Guest:And the comments that I've heard from people who...
Guest:and for the most part pleasantly surprised.
Guest:They said, well, it's deeper.
Guest:I said, well, yeah, it's funny.
Guest:I mean, there's a lot of funny stuff in it, but it was... This felt... I wasn't reaching for stuff.
Guest:This felt like stuff that I really wanted to write and talk about and... Got a little wisdom.
Guest:I don't know if there's wisdom or it's like I'm just scratching my head in a different way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, you know, and...
Guest:you know, I've been going on talks, I was talking about it, and I thought, someone said, why did you write this?
Guest:I said, well, there's something that you get out of finding out that you're not alone.
Guest:And for an audience, and that's what stand-up is, people go, oh, yeah, man, that's so funny.
Guest:They're laughing because they recognize it.
Guest:As a comic, you're going, oh, thank God it's not just me.
Guest:You know, I'm validated by their laughter.
Guest:And it's the same with the show and the same with the book.
Guest:The people read it and they feel like, oh, okay, especially with something as...
Guest:intricate and absurd as parenting, you go... I mean, there's a chapter in there where I bonded with a buddy over the fact that we were having some problems each with our own kids, with our individual kids.
Guest:What kind of problem?
Guest:Just, you know, this one was struggling at school, this one had a health scare, and it's like...
Guest:Well, guys don't really talk about that.
Guest:And I'm not like there's any kind of shame.
Guest:It's just like we don't generally share.
Guest:You suck it up.
Guest:And my wife and her friends will always just, it's not even, yeah, it just doesn't dawn on me, never dawned on me to say, you know, it might actually be, you might find it fruitful.
Guest:to talk to somebody else who's... Comforting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in writing it, like... So we had this... We became great friends, and we actually met because our wives said, you know, you guys would really get... They were friends.
Guest:And they said, you guys would really get along.
Guest:We both would... We don't need another friend.
Guest:I got friends.
Guest:I made all my friends.
Guest:Yeah, and I'm not even calling them.
Guest:So I'm good.
Guest:I'm lousy with friends.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, but we hit it off, and we would, you know... And one of the things that we stumbled to now, you know...
Guest:in our 50s, realizing, oh, there's something to friendship and actually talking and putting yourself out there a little.
Guest:Actually, with the book, I feel like I'm putting myself out there a lot.
Marc:Well, isn't it interesting, though, because as a comic, I know that as well, that feeling of taking an emotional risk is a little daunting.
Guest:Yeah, I remember, you know, I can just remember a bunch of comics at various points trying stuff out on stage, and they'll do a bit, you know, whether it's...
Guest:in the shower you know this bit or you're in the bathroom or something or you're having sex and do a bit and there's no laughter and the response is always all right well i guess it's just me yeah and like yeah and you but you're not on the other hand you're going to put something forward and you're going to get a huge laugh because it's not just you right and you're not going to get that unless you risk that's right putting it out there yeah so hopefully with doing it enough years you have some sensibility and some sense of right appropriateness like well
Guest:Don't share that, idiot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you can.
Marc:That's exactly what I always share, which is why.
Marc:Don't share that.
Marc:Yeah, that's what I do here.
Marc:That's your business.
Marc:Yeah, no, no.
Marc:It's got to be everyone's business.
Marc:But, I mean, on a friendship level, even as I get older, your heart gets kind of heavy because you're getting older and you've got kids and you've got these other problems.
Marc:And sometimes to sit with them, it kind of alienates you from other people.
Marc:And there's that moment where you reach out to somebody else
Marc:where you're like, oh, thank God.
Guest:Yeah, and it's surprising, and I think there is a bit of a gender thing there, that men don't come to that naturally.
Guest:And I still don't particularly spill my guts and talk to people at the drop of a hat, but...
Guest:In small doses with the right people, you realize, well, that's something I wouldn't have done 10 years ago.
Guest:And I probably wouldn't have done it without having not had kids because kids just open up your concerns.
Guest:You just care more about in general.
Guest:You care more.
Guest:You don't ask yourself questions or push yourself until you have to.
Guest:Kids make you have to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when they ask you, you know, they point out a double standard of yours or how does the world work?
Guest:And they go, wow, okay.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:All right.
Guest:How do I frame this?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How do I explain this to you?
Guest:You know, my kids will ask me about, you know, girls and, you know, a 15-year-old for sure.
Guest:It's like, Dad, I'm always thinking about girls.
Guest:And I go, it's never going to stop.
Guest:That's all I can tell you.
Guest:It's like, you will carry that, you know, and you're in.
Guest:You're in that club now.
Marc:Have there ever been those more sex-involved conversations or how to do things or that kind of stuff?
Marc:I don't have kids, so I can't imagine how to handle it.
Guest:It hasn't gotten there yet, but that's why I drive around the block a lot.
Marc:You say things like, don't you have the internet?
Marc:Apparently, it's all on the internet.
Guest:Yeah, it'll go away.
Marc:Now, I'd be remiss to not talk about the show that didn't work.
Marc:You'd be remiss?
Marc:Would I be remiss?
Marc:No, it's not the wrong word, but really?
Marc:You'd be remiss?
Marc:I don't know that you'd be remiss.
Marc:Well, I mean, it happened.
Marc:And what happened there?
Guest:I've been making that same phone call.
Guest:In fact, just this morning, I called.
Guest:I said, hey, what happened there?
Guest:There's no answer.
Marc:There is no answer.
Marc:No.
Guest:There's just no answer.
Guest:No, it was very disappointing because, you know, after having taken, you know, not wanting to particularly do a show at all for 10, 11 years, and then suddenly created this thing which felt really right and was really good.
Guest:I mean, what's most frustrating about it is that it didn't proceed and it didn't become part of the world.
Guest:It didn't evolve.
Guest:Not because of its...
Guest:Because it wasn't good.
Guest:And I'm pretty tough on myself.
Guest:And I know from the people who saw it that this was a good show.
Guest:And this was a show that would have really grown and found its audience.
Guest:But I always said from the beginning, I said, I promise you, this is not going to jump out of the gate.
Guest:This is a show that needs to just leave it alone.
Guest:Put it in one place, whatever you want, pick a time, leave it there, and people will come to it.
Guest:And I promise you there's 10 million people, which in this day and age is a huge issue.
Guest:I said, there's 290 people who won't care for this at all.
Guest:There's many other things they can watch.
Guest:I said, but there are 10 million who will find this, embrace this, and stay with it for years.
Guest:And unfortunately, they didn't do that.
Guest:For a bunch of reasons, those glaring of which was this was developed under one regime and then the entire NBC, it wasn't even like a new guy, the entire company was sold.
Guest:That happened?
Guest:Yeah, NBC was sold and new people came in and they put new people in.
Guest:So there was nobody there who said, I believe in this.
Guest:I think they believed it enough to say, let's put it on and see if there's a huge thundering run towards this show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No?
Marc:Okay, goodbye.
Marc:So they just saw it as an opportunity, like a clean house, fuck it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think they would have been thrilled if it succeeded, but at the same time, the reality was, they said, listen, and I was told, we have no money to promote this.
Guest:I went, well, it doesn't take that much.
Guest:You put up an ad in our bus, you know, like $12?
Guest:What is that?
Guest:So I said, listen, I don't care.
Guest:I'm not going to be insulted.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, that's... I understand, whatever the business... I said, but let's put it on because there was debate even that.
Guest:Should we just burn it?
Guest:We had seven episodes.
Guest:And they said, well, you know... And they were going to really just roll or, you know, say, take it elsewhere.
Guest:I said, well, put it on.
Guest:I said, just watch.
Guest:I said, you know, I'm willing to take a bet on myself.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:As far as the promotion, you guys can't do that.
Guest:I said, well, listen, that's okay.
Guest:As long as you know when we get weak numbers, we're going to get weak numbers because obviously nobody knows about it.
Guest:So just don't panic and misread that.
Guest:But sadly, that's all they look at.
Guest:They go, numbers were bad.
Guest:I go, well, yes, because the people who would watch this show
Guest:were not made aware of it.
Guest:I mean, it just literally came and went.
Guest:So it was very disappointing.
Guest:And if it had gone on and gotten a real shot and fail, I would say, okay, I'm wrong.
Marc:So now you've got to live with the fact that it didn't get its shot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was just... And I was very looking forward to doing it because I loved...
Guest:the world of the show and i love the cast we had this unbelievably talented cast that i said okay i can write for these people that guy uh it's great he's one of the funniest powerfully funniest guy there is and you know he was i i we twisted everybody into a pretzel to get him yeah and i said this guy is brilliant i said i said he's gonna be the breakout star happily and so
Guest:So it was disappointing.
Marc:Do you feel like that because you chose the network, was there any ideas initially to do it at cable or why NBC?
Guest:I never conceived it as a network, to tell you the truth.
Guest:I thought of it as a cable.
Guest:But at that moment, you have to go where...
Guest:the buyers are and what they have at that moment and hbo and h you know they passed and they had other things in development that were close to it or or or it wasn't their cup of tea or whatever it was so of those that were interested nbc was was the most promising you go okay you know again i would have loved if if everybody said we've got to have it no we've got to right right and so nbc uh stepped up and i thought okay you know what
Guest:Listen, again, I'm not... I can only... It's like stand-up.
Guest:You can only control your little world.
Guest:And I said, well, I can't fix a network or make a great network.
Guest:I said, I can only make a little show and hope somebody buys it.
Guest:And I was awfully proud of the show and excited about making more of them and proud of the ones that we did make.
Guest:So...
Guest:What's still hard to say, what happened there?
Guest:It's like, that was it?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Two airings?
Guest:Eight days and we're done?
Guest:Yeah, I can't imagine.
Guest:So it was brutal, but most frustrating that it fell in for all my intent to avoid it.
Guest:It ended up falling into just the most cliche of traps.
Guest:Like, yeah, we tested and the numbers were not good for two weeks.
Guest:Yeah, but that's not how you make a show, really.
Marc:Do you think you would have more support hadn't they changed hands?
Marc:Oh, for sure.
Marc:And because you had guys there and you knew the guys and they knew you.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I just think anybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I don't really fault anybody.
Guest:It's just the reality of the world.
Guest:If I came in to take over whatever, a new job, I'm going to be more excited about the stuff that I'm bringing in than the guy left over from the last guy.
Marc:But a lot of those guys, they don't even have stuff yet.
Marc:And they're just sort of like, look, we can get rid of this because it wasn't even on our watch.
Marc:Yeah, so it was... Exactly.
Marc:Well, I'm sorry it didn't work out.
Marc:Yay, thank you.
Marc:And I'm glad you came by and talked.
Guest:And now this will go out to people.
Guest:This is not just me and you sitting in your garage.
Marc:Other people will hear this?
Marc:No, I just like to meet the guys that do the same thing as me and made a good living at it, and it makes me feel better.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:It's quite a setup you got here.
Marc:A ruse you got.
Guest:People come in, visit you at home.
Marc:No, this one is actually, this does get listened to.
Marc:All right.
Guest:And people will very... Well, tell those people to go.
Guest:Go get the DVD of the show.
Guest:I don't even know.
Marc:What happens to it now?
Marc:Do you get it back?
Guest:I'm going to come over and show it here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're not holding on to it.
Guest:We must have this.
Guest:Oh, you can have it.
Guest:Is there any help for it?
Guest:Yeah, we're talking to Al Jazeera.
Guest:All right.
Guest:They have 13 and a half.
Marc:I think you can get that online now.
Marc:You can certainly watch it.
Marc:Thanks a lot, Paul.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:That was Paul Reiser.
Marc:I don't know when the last time you heard from Paul was, but there you go.
Marc:It was good talking to him.
Marc:As always, most of the time anyways, go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:It's all there now.
Marc:There's an episode guide.
Marc:No more questions about who's been on the show or if they've been on the show.
Marc:It's all there under episode guide.
Marc:You can go there.
Marc:You can get the app for iPhone, iPod, touch, iPad, droid.
Marc:You can do all this stuff.
Marc:You can buy episodes.
Marc:You can get new merch.
Marc:Hey, I'm thinking about getting buttons made.
Marc:How about buttons?
Marc:I tend to want to get merch that I want to wear made or that I think is fun.
Marc:Well, anyways, WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:You can go to iTunes Premium, which is if you go to iTunes and search WTF Premium, there's some great episodes up there for purchase.
Marc:You can also purchase them through WTFPod.com.
Marc:All right.
Marc:PunchlineMagazine.com is also a good resource for comedy stuff.
Marc:I... Oh, boy.
Marc:Don't feed the Google!
Marc:Talk to you later.