Episode 189 - Nick Thune
Marc:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking nuts?
Marc:What the fuck is they keep coming in?
Marc:I guess there are new listeners and they want to pitch in, but I've only got room for about four or five there before it gets ridiculous.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF my podcast.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:On the show today, Nick Thune, a comic that we definitely had some sort of tension, but we'll work through that.
Marc:We'll work through some other stuff.
Marc:I will be... Let's plug away.
Marc:Let's do a couple of plugs.
Marc:Did I say hi?
Marc:Did I say how are you?
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Nice to see you.
Marc:You know, let's relax a little bit.
Marc:Let's just try to relax.
Marc:I'm jammed up.
Marc:I got some JustCoffee.coop going.
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:Pow.
Marc:Oh, man, did I shit my pants.
Marc:But it's not bad because I blended this with cardamom.
Marc:I actually ground my coffee with cardamom pods and and then sweetened it a bit with some milk.
Marc:There's a place in San Francisco called Phil's and I decided I was going to.
Marc:I was going to outfill Phil, and I did that.
Marc:I just blended the grounds with cardamom, and I made my own Phil's coffee.
Marc:I'm not trying to plug Phil's, but it's fucking awesome.
Marc:But justcoffee.coop, of course.
Marc:I do need some coffee.
Marc:If you're listening, Mike, could you send me some?
Marc:I'm running out, and I can't afford to be without the beans, man.
Marc:You know what I'm saying, dude?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Rooster Teeth Feathers.
Marc:That's in Sunnyvale, California.
Marc:I will be there this week, July 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th.
Marc:This is a good room.
Marc:It's in sort of a tech mecca, I believe.
Marc:I'm not sure.
Marc:I'm not clear anymore where the hell I am.
Marc:And I lived in that area for a few years.
Marc:I don't know where the what you know where it is.
Marc:Sunnyvale, you know, Google it up, find it.
Marc:I do have some recollection of this club from way back when I did the San Francisco comedy competition, probably 1992.
Marc:I actually have photographs of me on stage at Roosters from that from that time.
Marc:Again, wearing pants.
Marc:I don't know why I was wearing.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I swear to God, I can't take it anymore.
Marc:I can't take looking at these pictures of myself with these strange choices of outfit.
Marc:I guess they're all time sensitive.
Marc:Is that a way to put it?
Marc:That I was being sensitive to the time by wearing stupid outfits that I thought would fit into the time.
Marc:God damn it, man.
Marc:I hope I have leveled off.
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:God, I hope so.
Marc:God, I hope so.
Marc:Why is that word so empty to me?
Marc:God, I hope so.
Marc:God, God, please.
Marc:It's not even that I don't believe in God.
Marc:I just don't give a shit one way or the other.
Marc:I don't know if I've talked about that before.
Marc:I just was not brought up that way.
Marc:As you know, I was brought up selfish by Jewish parents.
Marc:I think we've discussed that in one form or another, but I was never taught how to use God.
Marc:I think that if God is going to function in your life as something that you're either afraid of or that you find salvation in or that you are able to displace your own problems onto something bigger and find hope there, you must be taught how to use it.
Marc:either by your parents or by somewhere on the oppressive spectrum of religious commitment by your parents or forced by your parents, or maybe you've come to it later in life.
Marc:I have no idea.
Marc:I just was never taught how to use God.
Marc:And the manual I had happened to be in some arcane language that read from right to left.
Marc:And was fairly complicated.
Marc:I knew how to say it, but I didn't know what it meant.
Marc:So I was never taught how to use God.
Marc:But look, I will be honest with you.
Marc:If I can, I have prayed.
Marc:I have dropped to my knees and prayed to a God that I didn't believe in.
Marc:But I learned something about that.
Marc:There's something about prayer, even if it's as simple as I got on my knees and I said, this is fucking ridiculous.
Marc:This is just bullshit.
Marc:What the fuck am I supposed to do?
Marc:Just put that out.
Marc:If you're on your knees when you do that, there is a humility involved in that.
Marc:You have humbled yourself to something bigger than you, which is just about everything there is.
Marc:And that doesn't need to have a label on it in my mind.
Marc:It doesn't.
Marc:But the act of prayer, the act of getting on your knees or bowing down or kissing the floor, whatever you want to do, certainly is a bit of a of a compromised position.
Marc:It is a position that that levels your sense of of importance.
Marc:And I don't know that there's anything wrong with that.
Marc:I imagine you can meditate, though that seems a little more together.
Marc:You know, that's a crossway thing when you're on your knees and you're asking for help to something that is vague.
Marc:Even if you don't believe what it is that you're asking, the act of of humbling yourself has a little weight.
Marc:It has thousands of years of weight, even if it is not connected to anything.
Marc:I've actually said that prayer too.
Marc:It's an old Hebrew prayer where you just get on your knees and you just say, you know, fuck you.
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:What the fuck am I supposed to do with this shit?
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:I mean, this is just like the worst fucking day, the worst possibility, the worst news.
Marc:This is fucking stupid and it's painful and fuck this.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:A profane prayer.
Marc:That's what that was.
Marc:A profane prayer.
Marc:And I think that's what all of us do every day.
Marc:At least once a day, maybe a few times a week.
Marc:Those are prayers.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Are you kidding me?
Marc:Oh, fuck that guy.
Marc:Fuck this.
Marc:Who are we talking to?
Marc:We're not talking to them.
Marc:We're just saying it out loud.
Marc:We're putting that into the ether.
Marc:We are releasing the tension.
Marc:We are just opening up our personal psychic steam valve.
Marc:Like...
Marc:Letting off a little of that into the ether.
Marc:Is that good?
Marc:Does that congeal around the planet in a sort of global haze of cries for help?
Marc:Existential cries for help?
Marc:Fuck this.
Marc:Oh, God, are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:I can't tell you how many times I use that word.
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:These are not taking the names of these figures or these ideas in vain.
Marc:These are actually organized, impulsive, aggressive cries for help in the name of these ideas that you may or may not exist in.
Marc:Why does there have to be such discipline around this shit?
Marc:I mean, what the fuck?
Marc:See, I just said that out loud to you.
Marc:But if the mics are off, who would I be saying it to?
Marc:My higher self?
Marc:How about that?
Marc:How about that idea?
Marc:Right?
Marc:God, I wish one of my cats were here so I could talk to him.
Marc:My guest in the garage after many guilty... I don't even know what you would call it.
Marc:Is Nick Thune, the comedian.
Marc:I'm not going to... I don't know what the problem was, but I had you on... Did I cut you out of that one?
Marc:Oh, the one in San Francisco?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:I wouldn't even call it cutting out.
Guest:I think that my feeling of what happened was is you were doing a podcast all weekend, like, you know, because it was the music show and you were doing songs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I feel like you felt guilty in a moment of recording something backstage and you saw me and you go, oh, hey, let's just do a quick little thing.
Marc:Oh, that's a nice way to put it.
Guest:And then I felt nervous.
Guest:And so it was like really quick.
Guest:And then I go, I'm not good at podcasts.
Guest:And you just went up and went up.
Marc:See, because the way I remember it is that, like, fuck, Nick's here, and he probably wants to do the show.
Marc:This would be a good way to kill two birds with one stone.
Marc:I wouldn't have to talk to him for very long.
Marc:You don't have to have me come to your house.
Guest:Well, I'll actually tell you the first time when I did put some guilt on you.
Guest:Every time I see you, you put guilt on me.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:So we were a bumper shoot.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Comedy festival in Seattle.
Marc:Wait, the last one?
Marc:Just recently?
Marc:Like last year?
Guest:No, I think it was... Three years ago?
Guest:Oh, no, it was this last year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we were down in the hotel lobby and there was a group of like maybe 10 comedians.
Guest:And you were basically going around the circle and saying like, so Kroll, tomorrow at noon, you tomorrow here.
Guest:And you hit everybody in the whole circle.
Guest:And I was standing there and it was obvious that I didn't get hit.
Guest:So I just looked at you and said, Mark...
Guest:When do I get to do it?
Guest:And you said, oh, we'll get you on there, buddy.
Guest:And then I got a phone call from my wife, so I stepped away for a second, and I answered it.
Guest:And then I came back to the circle maybe like 45 seconds later, and you had just said something, and you walked away, so we kind of crossed paths.
Guest:And the whole circle was just kind of standing there awkward.
Guest:I didn't know why at that point.
Guest:And I just said, why didn't he just say he hates me?
Guest:That's why I'm not doing it.
Guest:And then one of them looked at me, and he goes, that is what he just said.
Guest:And so... I didn't really say that.
Guest:The look on everyone's face was looking at me like... Oh, really?
Guest:That's what he just said.
Guest:But maybe you were saying... I think a lot of times I misread your...
Marc:No, I'm a dick to you.
Marc:There's no doubt about that.
Marc:I will own up to that.
Marc:And I'm trying to figure out why.
Marc:You want to make a real sort of WTF-style amends?
Marc:I like how we just hopped into that right away.
Guest:I mean, I guess we were talking in your house for a while.
Marc:Well, I don't think that I was... I doubt that you walked away and I said, I hate that guy.
Marc:I doubt that.
Marc:I bet it wasn't those exact words.
Marc:No, but I probably said something that was bordering on, you know, it was me being funny, but it was probably hurtful.
Marc:And my issue with you, when you came on the scene,
Marc:What is that now, about six years ago?
Marc:In LA?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Six, seven years ago, right?
Marc:Yeah, you signed with my manager and you play guitar.
Marc:But yeah, so it was the guitar thing.
Marc:Generally, I have some sort of weird old school aversion to guitar comedy.
Marc:There were times where I used to see, when Demetri, I'm just weird like that.
Marc:For some reason, it strikes me as a crutch.
Marc:And I think that was really the core of, and I think if we really look at the history of our relationship, it's why I bust your balls more than anything else.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I could tell you two instances where you busted my balls about the guitar that definitely burned.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:You want me to?
Marc:Yeah, as long as we're having a good time.
Guest:Yeah, no, no.
Guest:I feel good about them now, and I can laugh about them because I feel like we're fine now.
Guest:Backstage, comedy, Death Ray.
Guest:I was sitting down and there was one person on and then it was me and then you.
Guest:And we were all doing 15 minute sets.
Guest:And you kinda came back and you looked at me and you go, so you gonna go on with your smoke and mirrors?
Guest:And I sat there and I think Chris Fairbanks was sitting next to me and I said, do you need my guitar?
Guest:And you said, yeah.
Guest:And I said, well, no, I'm not, I'm not going to go up, but I think I'll do just as fine either way.
Guest:And then it was just like this really awkward moment.
Guest:And then I said, why do you want to hurt my feelings so bad?
Guest:And he said, I'm just busting your balls.
Guest:And you walk out and then it just affected my set.
Guest:Drove me, you know, and I was like, cause the whole time I'm, but they're like, great.
Marc:Now he's out there in the crowd watching me like, seriously, Mark, I'm just as sensitive as you.
Marc:I know, but I, I guess I was talking to somebody about this before and I, maybe, um,
Marc:is that I'm not always really clear on the impact I have on people.
Marc:I don't see myself as any different.
Marc:If anything, I see myself as less than some people, and I don't really take into consideration that I'm such a powerful guy that has a radio show he does in his garage.
Marc:I don't know how I would affect you.
Marc:I wouldn't have even thought of that.
Marc:And that makes me sad.
Marc:And now I have to make note to myself to be empathetic to what effect I have on other people.
Marc:Now, what's the other time I hurt you?
Marc:Oh, it was recently in Minneapolis.
Marc:Is this a better one?
Marc:Yeah, but that was bullshit.
Guest:What was bullshit about it?
Guest:All right, what happened?
Guest:No, I was walking, I just walked out of radio, I'm walking down the hallway, and you said, you walked by me in the hallway to go to the same radio station, walking down the hallway, and you go, did you get my text?
Guest:And I said, no, I had my phone off on the radio, and you go, oh, okay, I was saying, I wish I would have brought my guitar, it would have been a lot easier.
Guest:And so I walk outside and I'm just like, that motherfucker.
Guest:And the girl that had driven me there that works at the club was just like, was he being funny?
Guest:And I go, I think he's just trying to hurt my feelings.
Guest:And then I go outside and I see there is a van out there that was the comedy club van from where you were working at that looked like one of those rapper vans, just like logos all over it.
Guest:And so I just took a picture of it and sent it to you and said, nice car.
Guest:Thinking like that's somehow getting back at you for making me...
Guest:question my, I don't know what for the day.
Marc:But it's like it becomes a running joke.
Marc:Why do you get so hurt?
Guest:No, it does.
Guest:It does.
Guest:You must have your own feelings about it.
Guest:Well, I think my feelings with you were, because I remember when I got introduced to you, it was at the improv and it was through Dave.
Guest:Becky yeah my my tremendous first manager and he and and he was like you got to meet mark he's he's a legend he's hilarious he's done a ton of things in comedy you really got to meet him and so he brought me over and I met you and it was just like I don't know I don't remember you didn't say much to me but it was just like right away I was like oh man this guy hates me and I don't think he even knows me but I just thought he just was not nice to me and then and so I think from that point I have this thing inside me where most comedians have where you just want to make everyone like
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Especially if it's somebody that's your elder in the business or somebody that has been in it for a lot longer that you respect.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Of course, after Dave said all that stuff about you, I looked you up and knew about all your stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And because I wasn't that familiar with the comedy world when I'd first come down here.
Marc:Well, look, I apologize for all that.
Marc:But, you know, you're one of those anomalies in show business.
Marc:You're you're an attractive guy.
Marc:I mean, in comedy, you know, and you you look like you should have a lot more going for you than doing stand up comedy.
Marc:This is for us.
Marc:You know, the runts.
Marc:It's for the freaks.
Guest:And I'm not a runt, though, inside.
Marc:Well, I'm starting to realize you're kind of a little sensitive, and I am too.
Marc:Come on, coming from you, you are so sensitive.
Marc:I know, but I've toughened up a little bit, I think.
Marc:You're right, I'm easily hurt, but I hide it.
Marc:And I guess the fact that you don't hide it made me want to do it more sometimes.
Marc:But seriously, when you- I wear it on my sleeves, and it makes it more fun.
Marc:When you see the reaction- Well, am I the only one that does that to you?
Marc:I mean, who else hurts your feelings on a day-to-day basis?
No.
Marc:My mom.
Marc:Oh, see, so now we're getting somewhere.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Is she disappointed?
Marc:Did she have hopes that you would be an actual singer songwriter?
Marc:Yeah, probably.
Marc:Oh, I made that decision early on.
Marc:Now I'm going to keep doing it.
Marc:I had no talent.
Guest:That was no holds barred.
Guest:You had no talent?
Guest:When it came to, like, singing, you know, like, being, when it came to, like, being real and, like, trying to, like, write a sensitive song, I just couldn't do something like that.
Guest:You tried doing that?
Guest:Of course, yeah, didn't you?
Marc:I mean, you know, when you're young and... Very young.
Marc:I think I gave that up.
Marc:I think, like, I wrote a song.
Marc:I've written a couple songs in my life.
Marc:I wrote a song for a girl when I was in probably eighth grade, and she was in tenth grade, and she had a boyfriend in tenth grade, and I was so fucking in love with her, and I wrote a song, and we performed it.
Marc:I performed it with a couple dudes, like, in a band situation at the school.
Marc:Oh, go ahead.
Marc:And she was very moved by it, but then her boyfriend punched me in the stomach, like right after the show.
Marc:We had this great, glorious moment.
Guest:That's actually the best situation possible, I think, for a growing situation.
Marc:To stop singing songwriting.
Marc:I was like, I'm giving up this dream.
Marc:I can't breathe.
Marc:I tried to catch my breath.
Marc:I think I tried to write a few serious songs.
Marc:But you started out doing that?
Marc:Because you got married.
Marc:You're married, but it's like you got married weirdly young, right?
Guest:no i mean i'm 31 i got married three years ago oh but you're with her since high school or something we dated uh right after high school for three years and we broke up for five and then we got back together and in our breakup is when i really kind of pursued comedy and yeah we who broke up with who she broke up with me nice yeah no heartbreak yeah good yeah and now now she's back have you found that your comedy has turned into shit
Marc:no no i found that i'm more comfortable now because i got to a place when we got back together where i wanted that stability i wanted somebody where i wasn't like worried about you know out on the road which is not the reason i'm with her anyway because i love her but yeah dude i hear what you're saying but you should always be worried when you're out on the road but you know we'll talk about that maybe later because you know who knows what happens they get lonely they uh you know they start emailing with a screenwriter
Marc:They start going to writer's group meetings with a screenwriter.
Marc:This sounds very specific.
Marc:Oh, it does?
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I was trying to be general.
Marc:All right, so you're in Seattle.
Marc:How old are you now?
Marc:31.
Marc:Is that real?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Or is that your IMDb age?
Guest:Can't fake that shit anymore.
Guest:No, 79, born in 79.
Marc:All right, so you're 31 years old.
Marc:You've been doing comedy, what, eight years?
Marc:Do I look older?
Marc:No.
Guest:Oh, you think I'm like saying I'm older so I get better parts or something?
Marc:No, I thought you'd be younger.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:No, I think you actually grew the beard to make you look older or to make you look like a grownup because you kind of got... Oh, yeah, well, I wanted a beard since I was a kid.
Guest:I definitely matured later.
Guest:I mean, I was just insecure my whole life.
Guest:But you're like nine feet tall.
Guest:Yeah, I got tall really early, but I didn't get pubes or armpit hair until I was ninth grade.
Guest:Oh, so you're the guy everyone laughed at in the locker room?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You had to go through that?
Guest:Seventh grade was the worst year of my life.
Guest:Seventh, eighth grade was terrible.
Marc:Oh, I always felt bad for those guys.
Guest:And they made us shower.
Guest:There was no option to not shower.
Guest:That's horrendous.
Guest:Why do they do that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm glad they didn't.
Guest:I mean, I'm like glad for all those things that I, you know.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You processed them?
Guest:Maybe still processing them.
Guest:But look, you got a little chest hair now.
Marc:It came out, right?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Now I'm like a normal guy.
Guest:I got about as much as you do, just the right amount.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is what my dad has, too.
Guest:I feel like I'm just kind of right on par.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And your dad kept his hair?
Marc:Yeah, I still got a full head.
Marc:So going back to you in the shower in seventh grade, being laughed at.
Marc:The only interesting thing so far we've talked about.
Marc:No, I'm just picking up a thread.
Marc:It's what I do here.
Marc:We're just talking.
Marc:We're making amends.
Marc:I'm sorry I made fun of you and your guitar, but I'm not going to stop.
Marc:um you're just gonna have but you know i feel like it's just different that's why you don't like it my my uh issue and it's not like this isn't controversial at all it's just you tell funny jokes but uh and the guitar is fine and it's nice and it seems to work for you but there's some part of me just because i'm an old dick that like i play guitar uh you know i have several right behind me i could never figure out a way to bring them on stage and that's why i played real music when i played and um
Marc:And I just wouldn't do it because it was burned in my mind that you don't do, you're not a guitar act.
Marc:Because there was a period in the 80s where all these guys, once comedy blew up in all the clubs, all these happy hour performers sort of started coming into comedy.
Marc:Once the happy hours shut down, we had just guys that did cover songs and did funny songs and held their guitar a lot.
Marc:So the musical act, the prop act, and the juggler were sort of lumped into this category.
Marc:And sadly, I still have residuals of that belief system in place, and I should replace it with some other belief system.
Marc:I think it's fine.
Marc:Have you tried doing it without a guitar?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I go up.
Guest:I mean, I went up that night.
Guest:We were talking about it.
Guest:I go up a lot without a guitar.
Guest:And then I'd say maybe 20 minutes of my hour I do without a guitar when I'm on the road.
Guest:But it's the closing.
Guest:And also, since I started with it, I've built people that want that.
Guest:I come out, and I still enjoy doing it.
Guest:I think if there's ever a point.
Guest:You've built people?
Guest:Well, built an audience of people that want to see that.
Guest:I built people.
Marc:I'm at home building a small audience.
Marc:I cut them out of cardboard and I set them up in my spare bedroom.
Marc:I'm a people builder.
Marc:People builder.
Marc:Well, that's good that you're getting popular.
Marc:What do you... I don't know if I'm getting popular, but...
Marc:Well, you know, I'm going to try and throw some compliments your way, but if you're going to keep hitting them back over the net, I don't know what I'm going to say.
Guest:I never want to be the guy that says, yeah, I'm confident.
Marc:I'm a rock star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I can be pretty confident, but I think everything's down going back to the seventh grade thing.
Guest:I think my whole junior high, not maturing early enough, all the kids in my neighborhood were good at sports, and I wasn't the sports guy, so that's what kind of caused me to get...
Guest:You were awkward.
Guest:To make people like me, I was like, just charm, just be charming.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Make the parents like me.
Marc:Right, and piss your teachers off.
Guest:Yeah, I had a lot of teacher problems.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I got kicked out of school because I had an alcohol kind of drug youth where I went to rehab when I was 17.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:What did you do?
Guest:I was just drinking and smoking, you know, smoking pot.
Guest:My parents didn't understand that.
Marc:You were socially awkward, too tall, didn't play sports, had no pubic care, no real skills.
Marc:No.
Marc:And your teachers were mad at you because you were probably clowning around in class all the time or falling asleep.
Marc:Yeah, I was trying to get laughs, like, you know, farting, whatever.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You farted?
Marc:You farted for laughs?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At what age?
Marc:Seventh grade.
Marc:That's great because that's a little late for that.
Marc:So you had no pubic hair and you farted in front of girls in class.
Guest:No, I remember I farted in this English class and the teacher, you know, in the midst of him like writing something, he turned around and he goes, I'll give that a seven.
Guest:And it got a laugh out of the room.
Guest:And so the next day I just waited.
Guest:I'm just going to lay it on him again.
Guest:Wait for the perfect time.
Marc:The English class, he tagged your fart?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, I'll give that a seven.
Guest:And the next day I did it again.
Guest:And he turned around and he goes, a joke is funny one time.
Guest:Never do that again.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:And I just, you know, it humbled me in the sense of like, oh.
Guest:Maybe he's right.
Guest:Maybe farting isn't the best.
Guest:But maybe you were really going for an eight or a ten.
Guest:I think I was trying to exceed it for sure.
Guest:I was definitely.
Guest:Farting in public, that's some ballsy stuff.
Guest:Yeah, but I've seen people that I can respect in comedy fart in public, and it's been really funny.
Marc:Like, I mean, like, I can see certain guys farting, like Brendan Walsh was just here, because they wanted to, like, he could fart anywhere and be okay with it.
Marc:There's a certain attitude that goes around with it.
Marc:I can't see you farting in public now.
Guest:No, and I'm not a fart guy now.
Guest:Not proudly, anyways.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, whoops, and then blame it on someone else.
Marc:Hiding it, walking away.
Marc:So you used to do, uh, you used to drink a lot and smoke a lot in high school, and you were a problem to your parents.
Marc:And you end up in rehab.
Marc:What, you were 16 or something, 17?
Marc:17.
Guest:I got kicked out of school and all in one day arrested the next morning.
Guest:It was my third minor possession of alcohol.
Guest:No, alcohol.
Guest:And I had a trespassing charge for who knows what.
Guest:I even forget what that was.
Guest:You forgot a trespassing charge.
Guest:Well, it was like I was just drinking and then ended up in someone's backyard somewhere and then got in trouble.
Guest:Because they didn't know you were in their backyard?
Guest:There was a trampoline.
Marc:Just some dude you knew who had one?
Guest:Just someone on the block.
Guest:You know who has trampolines and you know who has pools.
Marc:So you just figured, fuck it, you're gonna use a trampoline.
Guest:Yeah, trampoline time.
Marc:And the parents called the fucking cops?
Guest:Yeah, oh yeah.
Guest:Ah, trampolining.
Guest:And that was put on top of minor possession.
Guest:And so I came out, went to rehab for a month, locked down in Oregon.
Guest:My parents, I'd been kicked out of my parents' house for a while.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They let me come back and live with them once I got sober.
Guest:And then I basically changed high schools the next year and kind of just turned my life around and started speaking, you know, to like, I went back and spoke at my high school and I would go back and speak at the treatment center and I was doing AA and running my own meetings.
Guest:And that's where I started being funny, like in front of people.
Guest:Like I would go speak at a high school and get laughs.
Guest:So are you like an AA youth speaker?
Guest:I want laughs.
Guest:Yeah, oh yeah.
Guest:I was like, you know, just like an addict, you know, you do something and you do it all the way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I took meetings all the way.
Guest:I was going to two meetings a day.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that was the point where I was like, cool, I can smoke cigarettes and drink coffee.
Guest:And I'm still in high school and I'm like hanging out with adults and like learning real things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had a full-time job at the time, too, because I had to get work credit outside of high school to graduate on time.
Guest:And my dad got me a job at a car dealership.
Guest:Was that DECA?
Guest:Yeah, it was DECA, and I ran the student store in DECA.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:I was in DECA, but I never went.
Marc:You never went?
Marc:Well, I mean, I went, but I couldn't understand it.
Marc:I was such a fuck-up in high school, and it wasn't even drugs.
Marc:It was just I couldn't, like, pay attention to anything.
Marc:But I ended up, because I had a job in high school.
Marc:I was working at a restaurant.
Marc:I was a shift manager at a bagel place.
Marc:And I got DECA because I thought, like, this seems easy.
Marc:And if all I got to do is, you know, work.
Marc:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:And get credit.
Marc:That'd be great.
Marc:And I think I did it.
Marc:But I remember the guy who ran DECA was this weird old drunk.
Marc:But so you were a DECA guy.
Guest:Yeah, it's weird when you realize when you actually get older and you look at a teacher and you go, oh, he wasn't just slow.
Guest:He was probably wasted.
Guest:No, I had a couple of boozers.
Marc:But yeah, okay.
Marc:So you were fucked up.
Marc:So you're scraping by.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:doing the DECA thing, doing two meetings a day, being the AA guy.
Marc:It's like, hey, kids, you don't have to use drugs.
Guest:Actually, the first big comedy thing I did was with DECA because I was managing the student's store, and I would put posters up in the hallway like, hey, and I brought bagels into the school.
Guest:They didn't have those there before, and I thought I was making a change here.
Guest:A cultural change?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Introducing Jew food into a... Get bagels in the morning.
Marc:Why not?
Guest:Why worry about breakfast at home?
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:That was my slogans that I would do.
Marc:Oh, and you probably wrote this down as this entrepreneurial thing, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they had the thing where somebody runs for student body president, and so I went in and said, listen, I'm going to start putting posters up that say student store for president as a joke.
Guest:And the students kind of latched onto it.
Guest:No one really knew who I was because I was new at the school.
Guest:And I went and talked to the principal and said, why don't you let me do a fake speech at the assembly for running for president for the student store, like an advertisement in between things.
Guest:And so I got to do that.
Guest:And I went out and did like the student stores running for president.
Guest:And I remember getting laughs and thinking, this is something I want to do.
Marc:More laughs.
Guest:Yeah, more laughs, less getting serious.
Marc:Oh, that's hilarious.
Marc:So you actually found your voice through changing your life and talking to kids, and that's when you started to get funny.
Guest:Yeah, and then I got a job at the Boys and Girls Club for five years, and that's when I did a lot of performance for kids and working with teenagers.
Guest:How old?
Guest:18.
Guest:You were 18 and the kids were really young.
Guest:Kids were junior high, high school.
Guest:So I was just right above them.
Guest:What kind of shows did you do?
Guest:I would run an open mic every week at a coffee shop.
Guest:And I, my, my mentality was, is, you know, kids are nervous.
Guest:They don't want to all perform, but they all want to hang out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we get like five kids that want to perform for two hour show.
Guest:So I would just be on stage the whole time unless there was a kid performing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I would just do different bits and I'd write a song about the barista or I'd do a thing and,
Guest:and more and more stage time until I was kind of pushed out into doing open mics outside of that.
Guest:Then the harsh reality of comedy.
Guest:And then bars, yeah.
Guest:Well, then I was in a cover band.
Guest:And that's when I started doing the intermission for the cover band.
Guest:I would do a half hour, because I just thought you'd do a half hour.
Marc:You were in a cover band playing electric guitar?
Marc:Acoustic.
Marc:You played acoustic in a cover band?
Guest:Yeah, but we were called No Ablos, and we did all Spanish songs, like Ricky Martin and Ricky Iglesias, not like real Spanish.
Guest:We were trying to be funny.
Marc:Oh, so it was an ironic cover band.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:In Seattle.
Marc:Because can you really play?
Guest:I mean... Yeah, I mean, I can't... I'm not like a lead guy like you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm not that good at it, but yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, I took piano as a kid, and so I understand reading music.
Guest:And I can just make myself sound like I know how to play.
Guest:But I can pick up songs by listening.
Marc:That's cool.
Marc:So, all right, so you sort of come into comedy kind of like...
Marc:in a weird way.
Marc:Like you got all these performance shops for a few years doing very sort of specialized but embracing gigs.
Marc:And then you sort of shifted to comedy clubs or what were you doing?
Marc:Alt stuff?
Guest:No, I was also DJing weddings and bar mitzvahs that whole time at the Boys and Girls Club.
Guest:So the weekends I would be on a microphone for four hours at a wedding trying to get them to like me, get a tip or to bar mitzvah.
Guest:And so learning just to be liked, because I think my biggest thing in the beginning was being likable.
Guest:I just wanted to get a tip.
Guest:And then I learned being likable will win me the audience.
Guest:And then I basically went to Europe for three months, came back and said, I gotta get out of Seattle, I gotta go to LA.
Guest:And I just got to LA and did a year of open mics that were just terrible, poetry, music, open mics.
Marc:No comedy.
Guest:No, doing comedy in every room.
Guest:But I found that if I would go to a comedy open mic, I wouldn't get laughs.
Guest:But if I went to a musical open mic and walked up like I was a musician, and then I'd go right into my comedy, they're an audience now at this point.
Guest:They're not just comedians waiting for their spot.
Marc:All right, so you failed in the comedy clubs.
Guest:No, I didn't go to a comedy club.
Guest:The first club I went to was the improv, and I got made a regular that first show.
Marc:All right, so you did all the... Okay, so I see what you're saying.
Marc:So you just paid your dues doing these rooms where they were a little more supportive.
Guest:Yeah, or I just kind of stayed under the radar.
Guest:I didn't want to be seen before I had material.
Marc:You actually thought that?
Marc:You had that forethought?
Guest:Somebody told me that.
Guest:I saw an acting coach one time before I left Seattle, and she had me bring my guitar, and I had one five-minute bit about peanut butter and jelly I did it for her.
Guest:And she goes, okay, when you go to LA, just stay under the radar.
Guest:Don't let anybody see you and get good.
Guest:And then when you're ready, go to a club.
Marc:Well, that's hard to do in this town, but you were aware of that.
Guest:Yeah, but I didn't know how to get into the club, so it was easy.
Marc:So you just did kind of weird, shitty open mics.
Guest:Yeah, terrible, terrible open mics.
Guest:But I did 500 sets in this one year of first moving here.
Marc:That's pretty smart, though, because you're only a new face once, and you were able to capitalize on it.
Marc:So you do the improv, the first time you're there, they pass you, and then how long before Becky came around?
Marc:Well, that night I did the improv, back then.
Guest:Was it a showcase?
Guest:No, it wasn't a showcase, but they were just booking Aspen, the comedy festival that year.
Guest:And Jesse took a video of my set, and he called me on Monday and said, listen, we got a meeting in 10 minutes for Aspen, they're looking for two more new faces.
Guest:And I didn't even know it, I had to Google the comedy festival, I didn't know.
Guest:And he said, can I show him the tape?
Guest:And I said, great.
Guest:And then I got a call 20 minutes later saying they want you to come.
Guest:And then 20 minutes later, my phone, you know, it was like just voicemails exceeded from managers and agents.
Guest:Like, who's this kid that we've never heard of?
Guest:Because nobody had ever heard of me.
Guest:Fresh meat.
Guest:And I had a full website because I'm from Seattle and kind of knowledgeable and that stuff.
Guest:And I think it was even on par with Dane Cook's website at the time because not many comedians had good websites.
Guest:So everybody went to my website and thought, whoa.
Guest:Where's this guy been?
Guest:How did we miss him?
Guest:He's got a tour schedule.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it worked out.
Guest:It was like that perfect timing.
Marc:Now let's talk about something honestly.
Marc:So there you are, you've got, I'm assuming by that time, by the time you went to Aspen, what'd you have, like 20 maybe?
Marc:Yeah, I could push to 30.
Marc:Right, and so all this shit is coming at you, because I remember there was a lot of heat on you, and it wasn't clear what you were going to do with the talent, and Becky was like, you ended up with Becky, and he's very good at sort of making things happen once there's heat.
Marc:But what was the plan?
Marc:I mean, you were a guitar guy.
Marc:I mean, what was his plan?
Marc:What was your plan?
Guest:I think the plan right away was to get me on Comedy Central.
Guest:You know, and at Aspen, I came out with a little Comedy Central deal, and I got my, they wanted to do an hour.
Marc:Yeah, now what happened behind that?
Marc:Because there were some, you know, things going around the, you know, community.
Marc:About the Comedy Central thing?
Marc:About the hour, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, no, they, well, I got them to make a deal.
Guest:Do you know what the things were?
Guest:Well, I'll tell you what happened, then you can tell me if this is kind of what it was.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I knew that I didn't have an hour.
Guest:But I thought, I can push to 30, and if it's 42 minutes, I'm going to try.
Guest:And I didn't realize how big of a deal that first hour was, because I was so new still.
Guest:And so they said, you know, take three months, four months, get it together, and we'll come watch you at a club.
Guest:And I did that, and they came out to the Laugh Factory.
Guest:I sat down with Becky beforehand, and I said, I don't know if this is gonna be a good hour.
Guest:I'm really nervous about it.
Guest:You were doing an hour or 42?
Guest:Well, I basically did 45 at the Laugh Factory for them that night, and they set up this big showcase, and we finished the hour, and I went upstairs and sat down with whoever, Elizabeth Porter, somebody from Comedy Central, and I just said, can we just do a half hour?
Guest:And she was like, great.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, do a half hour, and I was like, I can't do an hour.
Guest:I'm not ready.
Marc:Well, that's exactly what people were saying.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what I tell people.
Marc:Right, but I think that the spin on it in the vicious circle of comedians is like, yeah, he couldn't do the hour.
Guest:I mean, think about people that have gotten the hour and they did it and they still couldn't.
Guest:I just didn't want to be that guy.
Guest:I didn't want to have an hour and not do it well.
Guest:I think that's smart.
Guest:So you did the half hour.
Guest:I mean, I'm not trying to impress my peers.
Guest:I'm trying to impress the people, although I do like, oh, my peers like me.
Guest:But I'm sure people hate me.
Guest:Why wouldn't they?
Guest:Why would they?
Guest:At that point, because who is this guy?
Guest:Oh, because you got the opportunity.
Guest:Why did he have an hour?
Guest:And the half hour went well.
Guest:People are waiting in line for that sort of thing, and then just some kid comes in.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of people think there's a line, but they're just waiting.
Marc:People do think there's a line.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I mean, that's naive.
Marc:Yeah, it's just naive.
Marc:Okay, so you did the half hour, and is it bad to share the details of your career like this, or is it better to keep mystery?
Marc:Oh, you mean in general for your own career?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I don't know.
Marc:I think it's an interesting conversation to me because I've not really talked to somebody that paid their dues in the way you did.
Marc:And I imagine some people would argue whether or not that you really have in the sense that you probably are still paying dues in terms of being on stage and learning how to be a stand-up.
Marc:But the idea...
Marc:that I think would be, that's interesting to me and I think would be interesting to other performers is that it's almost impossible to be anonymous in this business anymore.
Marc:Because if anything's up on YouTube or you are at almost any club in this town, somebody's going to see you and say something.
Marc:But the fact that somehow or another you had enough forethought to remain invisible until you actually had an act.
Marc:Because I don't think a lot of people realize that there's only a...
Marc:When you're a new face, when you're genuinely a new talent, that's only going to happen once.
Guest:Yeah, people are going to remember that and judge you off it.
Marc:Well, you're going to get a shot if you've got anything.
Marc:I mean, this is the great thing about comedy.
Marc:This is the difference between comedy and acting and everything else is that we generate our material.
Marc:So if all of a sudden you come out with this killer 10 minutes and no one's ever seen you before, you're going to get management.
Marc:You might get a shot at it at an hour or whatever it is.
Marc:But, you know, whether or not you can do that or live up to those opportunities, who the hell knows?
Marc:I mean, that happens all the time.
Guest:Well, I'm just glad I'm glad that I didn't do that hour.
Guest:You know, I mean, that would have been a mistake in my career for sure.
Guest:At that time, it wasn't even a career yet.
Guest:It was just right.
Guest:It could be a career.
Marc:And then what happened?
Marc:So like there's other things I heard.
Marc:You know, I'm not trying to be a dick, but weren't you cast in a show?
Marc:Or did you replace somebody?
Marc:Did somebody replace you?
Marc:It's happened both ways.
Marc:I've been replaced and I've replaced.
Guest:Yeah, and you knew the guy in both cases, right?
Guest:The guy that replaced me in the show, I didn't know.
Guest:The guy that I replaced, yeah, he's another comedian.
Guest:And it wasn't that they replaced him because I was any better than him.
Guest:They went with a whole different person.
Marc:Right, no, that's what happens.
Guest:It's not like he's not funny.
Guest:No, he's way funnier than me and way more established than me.
Marc:What were these TV shows?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For for the one that I replaced on was an NBC show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With with Matthew Broderick that Lorne Michaels was producing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:You got replaced.
Guest:No, that's the one that I replaced.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The one that I got replaced on was a CBS show that that was I don't know.
Marc:And these were just acting gigs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, how do you feel about that?
Marc:I like them.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's kind of weird, though, right?
Marc:You're just saying, you're doing other people's jokes.
Guest:Yeah, well, like, I just taped a pilot this year that's still kind of... For who?
Guest:Next week, NBC.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Are you the lead?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what was it about?
Guest:It was about me living with a lesbian.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I start dating a girl who's got a lesbian roommate, and we put those two girls together, and then it turns out at the end of the episode, I got my roommate pregnant two months ago, and something, like, of her saying, I just want to have a guy...
Guest:you know I want to be with a guy one time in my life and it turns out I got her pregnant and that's you know sparks into the whole show really but the great thing about whose idea was that you?
Guest:no this lady Joni Marchinko so you just got cast I got cast yeah but they actually put my jokes in there and for the pilot I said yeah as many jokes you know to make it real for mine and they wanted me to just knock them out of the park and so they let you know I threw a lot of jokes in that which was fun so you're like you know everything's going good for you
Guest:I mean, there's things that aren't going good sometimes.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Like when you get your feelings hurt?
Marc:Trying to start to work out.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:I got a bike, you know?
Guest:Yeah, how's that?
Guest:I want to get in shape.
Guest:You bought the bike?
Guest:How long has it been since you bought it?
Guest:Three months.
Guest:And how many times have you ridden it?
Guest:I've probably ridden it 20 times in three months.
Guest:That's not bad.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:You know, I live by Elysian Park, so I just ride through there, and it's a nice little... But I'm definitely out of shape in every way possible.
Marc:Now, when you changed your life around, was it just through AA?
Guest:No, I was very involved in church as well.
Guest:My parents had kind of taken me to a church growing up, and I would go to church camps all the time.
Marc:Church camp?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, tell me some stories.
Guest:I actually met my wife at church camp.
Guest:Are you still churchy?
Yeah.
Guest:You know, I mean, I still believe in God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I've kind of fallen off church.
Guest:I've had a hard time with churches in Hollywood.
Guest:And also you get in the comedy community and I do question things now.
Guest:You know, I do.
Guest:You know, I find myself sometimes thinking, like, is there a God?
Guest:Really?
Guest:So the heathens have gotten to you?
Guest:Yeah, the world has gotten to me in the sense of the church.
Marc:So now tell me, when you say you were active in the church when you were growing up, so you went to church every Sunday.
Marc:What kind of church?
Marc:Non-denominational Christian church.
Marc:That's that vague kind of Christianity?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's more about like, we're happy and we're good.
Guest:Personal relationship with Jesus and God, which, you know...
Guest:And it's just like being Methodist, but it's not like people aren't up in their seats like chanting and doing like speaking in tongues.
Marc:Is there guitar at the church?
Guest:Yeah, and I played guitar at church.
Guest:You did?
Guest:And that's where I really learned how to play with a band and play with other people.
Marc:You played Jesus songs?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:How come you don't do any of those?
Marc:Just take that up on stage?
Guest:Yeah, I should.
Guest:I've done events before where it was like a Christian college, you know, where you have to do something.
Guest:Did you ever think about doing Christian comedy?
Guest:No, I never wanted to do anything that was just directed towards Christians.
Guest:And that's even speaking of like when I was in, I think, probably my strongest probably place of a relationship with God to where I didn't want to draw.
Guest:I didn't want to do anything to that audience.
Guest:I wanted to do something to the world.
Guest:I wanted to speak to the world and to people.
Guest:And I didn't want to be characterized in this as a as a mission.
Guest:Well, I've been on mission trips.
Guest:I have plenty of them.
Guest:But like when you thought about... Yeah, I wanted people to look at me and not think like, oh, he's a Christian, but there's something about that guy.
Guest:There's something about him that's not quite the same.
Guest:And then what was the hope after that?
Guest:That they'd come up to you and you'd say, well, you want to hear the good news?
Guest:I guess.
Guest:Yeah, maybe.
Guest:But I think that if I were to say that my motives were 100% pure, then yeah.
Guest:But I mean, I'm not 100% pure guy.
Marc:Yeah, clearly.
Marc:I mean, something has gone wrong.
Marc:Pride and ego.
Marc:And age.
Guest:And being an adult and seeing things.
Guest:But I think deep down...
Guest:I was in a place of recovery and I needed to be surrounded by that stuff.
Guest:And if I wasn't, then I was gonna be back out being what I didn't want to be.
Marc:But you grew up with it though, so even though you were surrounded by that stuff, it stopped you.
Guest:I didn't believe it growing up.
Guest:I didn't believe it until after I got sober.
Marc:So what was that moment like?
Marc:I mean, what brought on that moment of belief?
Marc:Was it just that the conversation within the rooms that when you're given the option of a higher power of your own understanding, you were just sort of like, well, I've had Jesus on the back burner.
Guest:Yeah, and I looked at it as God.
Guest:I mean, I remember thinking people that do the doorknob thing or the light bulb.
Guest:I think that's bullshit.
Guest:I do too.
Guest:I didn't understand that.
Marc:But I mean, I don't think people really have a doorknob.
Marc:I don't know why they use those examples.
Marc:You can be whatever you want.
Marc:It can be a chair.
Marc:It's like if your God's a chair, you're a retard.
Guest:This is a problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I think I just knew that I was powerless.
Guest:My life was unmanageable, and I knew that I could never bring the reins on my life and bring it in and make it good.
Marc:But there's still some part of me that even knowing that, that I don't need to have a defined, even outside of recovery, we can shift the language.
Marc:Even knowing that I'm powerless and even knowing that for most practical purposes, I have very little control over my life, the surrendering my disbelief, or suspending my disbelief,
Marc:to allow a defined God into my life is a little bizarre.
Marc:I don't have any problem with having a certain amount of faith without God and knowing that like, well, I don't have control and a lot of it is sort of a crapshoot.
Marc:There's some days where I'm like, how did I live this long?
Marc:Why didn't I just get hit by a truck?
Marc:God forbid I get hit by a truck right after this interview.
Marc:But- Could it happen?
Marc:Well, of course.
Marc:It could happen to anybody.
Marc:Anything could happen.
Marc:But I was not the kind of person that was gonna be like, well, I must be being looked out after.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not going to do that with my brain.
Marc:You know, decide that I'm special.
Marc:Do you think it's too easy?
Marc:Well, I think it's bullshit.
Marc:I mean, I think by the laws of possibility, you know, usually most things is kind of explained.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:There are ratios that sort of like, well, you weren't even in that position.
Marc:There are freak accidents and everything, but I wasn't going to give...
Marc:that much um credence to to uh to to my uniqueness you know given the world we live in but but i know there's just a little fucking switch you know in the heart and mind of a person where you know they just let go of that thing and and they're like i'm gonna believe now
Guest:Yeah, I want they want to believe in it.
Guest:They they they want to believe that there's something that has created them and created this earth and that there is an answer and there might be an ending that's not empty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now this church camp thing.
Marc:So after you got sober, you went to church camp.
Guest:I went to it.
Guest:So I got sober in May and there's a church camp that summer.
Guest:And so I went to that.
Guest:What do you do at church camp?
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:Those are some of my great memories growing up.
Guest:It was this camp in Northern California.
Guest:We were up in Seattle, so we'd all get in a bus.
Guest:There was 300 students between high school, and you'd go down for a week, and you're in this ranch.
Guest:There's a huge man-made lake with rope swings going into it and climbing walls.
Marc:So that's just camp-camp stuff.
Guest:It's just camp-camp, and then you have a morning worship session, a nighttime worship session.
Marc:What do you do at a morning worship session?
Guest:You go in and you sing like worship songs and you pray and you kind of start your day off, right?
Marc:Some people might.
Marc:Start it off right?
Guest:Yeah, you know, you want to start your day off because you're there for a reason.
Guest:You're there to have fun with your friends, but you're also there to grow in your relationship with God is, you know, what a church camp is for.
Marc:But people were getting blowjobs and stuff, right?
Guest:Oh, I'm sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I made out with a couple girls down by the water.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, did you finger bang anyone at church camp?
Guest:Never at a church camp, no.
Guest:I think the furthest I ever got at a church camp was just to lay down make out by the water.
Guest:Little boob?
Guest:Yeah, a little boob.
Guest:You know, girls are walking around in bikinis at that thing.
Guest:Bikinis for Jesus.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And that turned, you know, over time, when I actually became a counselor later for that same camp, you know, they changed the rules for bathing suits.
Marc:Oh, I thought you were going to say, that's when I started fucking.
Marc:Oh, that would have been revealing.
Marc:Oh, you're so sweet there, Nick.
Marc:All right, so you're doing all this churchy stuff.
Marc:You meet your wife at church camp.
Marc:Yeah, you know how I met her.
Guest:I mean, it sounds stupid.
Guest:What?
Guest:What was that?
Guest:Oof.
Marc:Well, it's just like you're obviously pretty comfortable with all this stuff, and you still have an active faith in your life, and I assume you still pray relatively regularly.
Marc:I try to remember, too.
Marc:Yeah, and she's also still an active Christian.
Marc:I think she.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, yeah.
Marc:And I, you know, look, I, you know, I'm not criticizing and I'm not even trying to be condescending.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I find that it's interesting to me that I can't like like I in those moments of existential darkness or loneliness, you know, I can't have a certain amount of surrender around the fact where it's like, well, you know, you know, life is sort of a gyp.
Marc:And it's kind of a joke and we don't have that much time.
Marc:So maybe you should be nice to people.
Marc:Maybe you should be grateful for what you have.
Marc:You know, maybe you should make a list of things that would make you a better person.
Marc:Maybe you should, you know, think of the others over yourself.
Marc:Have a lot of those lists.
Marc:Well, yeah, but I but those are just decent human stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And actually, you know, it's.
Marc:Acting in that way makes you feel better.
Marc:Like a lot of the things that, you know, you learn in show business or you learn in this culture is it, you know, it's all about me, me, me.
Marc:How do I get more money?
Marc:How do I get more food?
Marc:I get more pussy.
Marc:You know, how do I get more, you know, shoes, whatever the hell it is.
Marc:But you start to realize as you get older is that, you know, those things are nice, but they're if you don't change on the inside, you know, it's not going to fix you.
Marc:yeah no it's not and it's also going to just create more stress in your life because then you're never kind of getting up to what it is that you know is the right thing right so have you ever actively uh in your life um facilitated someone's
Guest:transitioned into Christianity have you saved somebody yeah you know when I was a counselor oh yeah I don't know how many you know but there's been some like there's there's a few memories of some really great moments there's actually one memory I was it was like an eighth grade group and we'd taken him down for spring break to go to Disneyland and we'd drive him back up in a van how old are you now 19 uh-huh maybe yeah 19 and
Guest:And there was a kid in there, you know, an eighth grade kid, and he basically said to me in the van, like, you know, I think I'm ready to accept God into my heart.
Guest:And I just, I remember thinking, great, so let's pray, you know.
Guest:And we started the prayer, and the pastor in the car stopped me and goes, you're not doing that right.
Guest:Let me do it.
Guest:And he...
Guest:and I remember the bitter and it, and it like, it really frustrated me because I, I thought, what, what's the right way?
Guest:The fact that this kid just said verbally out loud that he's ready to do this.
Guest:And then the fact that, you know, I've been working with him now for, for months in a, the small group back at here and meeting weekly and hanging out with him and his friends and, and, uh,
Guest:That was a weird thing.
Guest:What was the right way and what were you doing wrong?
Marc:It was just wording.
Marc:It was just wording.
Marc:Well, okay, so play it out for me.
Guest:I don't remember the specifics between words, but if you're sitting down with somebody, you say, are you ready to surrender yourself and to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
Marc:And they go, yeah, I think so.
Guest:Yeah, and I think there's a couple questions that you're supposed to say yes to or almost like a wedding, like I do or something.
Marc:Oh, but you didn't know this.
Marc:No, I didn't know this.
Marc:And you still don't know them.
Guest:No.
Guest:Because I don't think there is a right or wrong way if somebody's just already made the decision in themselves to want to do that.
Marc:So this guy was like, it was basically... That's like saying a marriage license makes people married.
Marc:It's salvation interruptus.
Marc:Here you were.
Marc:You're ready, you're reluctant.
Guest:That was my first time too, I think, I'd ever had that opportunity of somebody to ask me to do that before.
Marc:So basically that moment of what people would say saving somebody is...
Marc:is the acknowledgement of somebody saying, I'm ready to take Jesus into my heart.
Marc:And, and then you say, uh, let's pray.
Marc:And then, and that's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, you congrats, you know, congratulations or whatever.
Guest:I mean, definitely it was a kid that I didn't think wanted to do that.
Guest:And I think he was just there because his parents made him come.
Guest:Something turned him, you know, I mean, something in the sense of seeing, maybe seeing through me, um,
Guest:You know, that he noticed that I had something different in me and that he wanted that.
Guest:Or maybe he just wanted to make me think that I had, you know, he liked me and he just wanted me, oh, I just want Nick to think he did something good.
Guest:So let me help this guy out.
Marc:Yeah, let me help Nick out.
Guest:Looks like he's ready.
Marc:So what was another time?
Marc:Have you done it right since then?
Guest:Yeah, I've been in the Philippines twice for two week trips at a time to take street kids out to a camp similar to that.
Guest:Who sends you?
Guest:The church?
Guest:Well, the two Philippines trips I did with three friends.
Guest:We just built the whole trip ourself and went out and partnered with an agency.
Marc:But you weren't affiliated with a church?
Guest:Our church sent us, like we came to the church and said, we want to do this.
Guest:And then we met this organization, the International Action or something like that.
Guest:We partnered with them and went out and they set us up with a guy and he took us around.
Guest:And we went on a vacation for a few days of it afterwards and we called that debriefing.
Guest:So wait, so what'd you do with these kids, and how do you know that you... We just had fun with them, and we'd sing songs with them, and the language barrier was a big thing, but in the end, these kids have no parents.
Guest:There's street kids that are huffing glue and paint on the streets, and it's a terrible situation, and a lot of them are dealing with different sexuality things, and they've been...
Guest:abused in a whole bunch of ways.
Guest:And it was just about kind of showing them there are people in the world that do love you and that do want to care for you.
Guest:And we built like a big rope thing for them.
Guest:We actually made the camp better.
Guest:We brought things to leave there.
Guest:And then just two years ago, my wife and I went to Kenya for a two-week thing in this area called Kibera.
Guest:Who sent you on that one?
Guest:I went with a local guy who runs this church, and he was actually shooting a documentary at the time.
Guest:So I got to perform there in this thing, and it was about storytelling, so I did one of my stand-up bits.
Guest:It's about one of my oldest ones about Instant Messenger.
Guest:did that, and even if the kids understood it or not, you know, and filmed it and kind of watched their reaction.
Guest:And then I did an acting class for a week with kids in this slum that would like to be actors, you know.
Guest:And it was funny, too, because I remember saying one kid really wanted to do comedy.
Guest:And I said, well, who do you like?
Guest:You know, like Chris Rock or, you know, thinking like.
Marc:Black guys.
Guest:Yeah, and he goes, Mr. Bean.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:He didn't know who, he didn't know who Kid Rock was.
Guest:Chris Rock, he didn't know anybody.
Marc:Well, that's probably because they probably, it depends what they get, you know, on TV there.
Guest:Yeah, they get that British comedy.
Marc:But in both of those situations, I mean, outside of doing humanitarian missions with sort of hands-on fun stuff for kids who are disadvantaged, I mean, where does the Christian element come into it?
Guest:Well, while we're there, they're going through different verses, and there is a speaker, and it's probably a local guy, and maybe we put together a drama to do for them, like something just terrible that would be embarrassing if anybody ever saw it, but these kids, to them it's like... Like what?
Guest:Like a scene out of the Bible, or something.
Guest:Who do you play usually?
Guest:I've been Jesus a couple times.
Guest:I've been Joseph before.
Marc:So you do the manger thing?
Guest:I've been Judas before as well.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So these are morality plays for kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or it's just a situation that they might go through every day to give them a tool to how to deal with something.
Marc:But there are scripts that are used for these things?
Guest:Yeah, that we would work on.
Guest:But like this Africa one, I played this character the whole time that was like Captain America.
Guest:I forget, Captain Innocent or something.
Guest:And I was just like this reoccurring thing that would run through and I wore a cape and the kids just thought it was the greatest thing ever.
Guest:But it was just so, you know.
Marc:But did you deliver the good news?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we would.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:And there were parts, you know, and they get so emotional, too, because their lives are so hard.
Guest:And when they see that people do love them and they see that there are people out there, you know, and I'm sure that plays into it.
Guest:Maybe it's not all about God.
Guest:It's just about feeling the love from other people for them.
Guest:And they're so overwhelmed by that.
Guest:You know, who knows?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:what actually makes them want to make that decision.
Marc:Well, I mean, this is, you know, impressive and interesting to me that, you know, this is a, obviously, I mean, this is two years ago.
Marc:I didn't expect to talk about this, by the way.
Marc:It's an active part of your life.
Marc:And, you know, and it's a unique disposition to have.
Marc:And it's certainly a unique disposition to shamelessly talk about with me, someone who intimidates you and someone on some level who is fairly.
Marc:Totally against it, right?
Marc:No, no, no, no, no.
Marc:I don't think that at all.
Marc:My attitudes around it have changed, that in a sense that what you're telling me, outside of the missionary element in that Jesus is involved, is that it's the same way you've couched it in this charitable and humanitarian thing.
Marc:And I think the core of it is that
Marc:You are spreading some love and some encouragement and some humanity.
Marc:Who knows how much?
Marc:To people that are in desperate situations.
Marc:The real question is, what is the price to pay for the dogma of it all?
Marc:And where do you stand?
Marc:We don't necessarily have to talk about it because it's not really relative, but it's how...
Marc:How religion is used, you know, in dictating, you know, people's lives socially.
Marc:You know, there are moral issues around or not moral issues, but there are certainly the abortion issue is what it is.
Marc:And I imagine I know what your position is on that.
Marc:And and the and there are other sort of pro choice.
Marc:You're pro choice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:OK.
Marc:How'd you come to that?
Guest:um by I think maybe it was when I was in the Philippines and I saw like real you know I think I'd been brought up in a family that was pro-life and uh being out and seeing people that are in need of having abortions because of rape or because of you know whatever um realizing that that that's a choice that people need to make on their own and I don't think it's a bad decision I think it's
Guest:I think it's a great decision, especially depending on their life and their circumstances.
Marc:Well, would you say that coming to that position was part of your questioning process about the nature of your faith?
Guest:Yeah, but I don't, I mean...
Guest:I don't know if that has, I think that has to do with questioning parts of the church.
Guest:I think what has happened to me over the years is the church.
Guest:I just, it's hard for me to be around.
Guest:Which church?
Guest:The general Christian church?
Guest:Churches in general.
Guest:I mean, I just kind of got scared of them and uncomfortable in them.
Guest:for these reasons because of that and maybe my sins and oh yeah you know well i mean because i'm not living a pure life i'm not living a a life that you know i'm probably the life that most people in those churches are living is what i'm living but you know i'm not hiding it i'm not hiding my life and i don't i don't i and there was a time when i would hide my life and so your sins in turn you would hide your christian life
Marc:Oh, yeah, depending on who you're going to.
Marc:But when you were younger, you hid your life because of shame.
Marc:And now it's interesting that you live and work in a community where there's sort of a shame element to actually having the point of view that you have around God.
Guest:But you know what I noticed is there is a feeling of maybe I'm embarrassed, especially when I first started or even meeting people that weren't Christians.
Guest:I was shamed to let them know.
Guest:And then I realized over time, people don't look down.
Guest:I mean, I don't think people look down on me for it.
Guest:I think people actually look at me and respect me for it because I'm not hiding anything about it.
Guest:And I also don't know what's right.
Guest:I don't know anything.
Guest:I mean, I'm not a very smart guy.
Marc:But that's a humble position to take as opposed to a proselytizing position.
Marc:I think that most people's ideas
Marc:of what they can expect from someone Christian is that I think immediately when that's introduced into the conversation, they get uncomfortable.
Marc:It's not that, you know, it's not necessarily always like, you know, there's no God.
Marc:It's sort of like, well, he's one of them and, you know, I'm dirty.
Guest:Well, it's like being sober and you're at a bar around people.
Guest:Do you want to drink?
Marc:No, I'm fine.
Guest:I don't drink.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:You're okay if I drink then around you?
Guest:Oh, so you're looking at me all night?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Marc:You're not going to be fun now.
Marc:Well, that's interesting.
Marc:So then how do you deal with your sins?
Marc:If you're not affiliated with a church, is that just a part of your relationship with God as a person?
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, the Catholic Church, to confess your sins, you go in and you do confession.
Guest:And then in a Christian church, it's about having that personal relationship to where you can just take your sins yourself.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah, hate yourself quietly and hope that Jesus forgives you.
Guest:Yeah, or then you have to set up accountability partners that you can confess to so it's not like you're just secretly doing that.
Guest:That's what they want.
Marc:That's how the sort of freelance Christian world works is that you have to find another like-minded person to be an accountability partner.
Marc:Like going to a meeting.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:No, it's like a sponsorship relationship.
Marc:It's sort of like a more...
Marc:a populist confessional.
Marc:That, you know, it's just the idea of sharing that sin with somebody else and having it heard.
Guest:And having it come out and then having them ask you about it another time, you know, to whatever it is.
Marc:How's that going with that sin?
Marc:That kind of thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still sinning?
Guest:You still doing that?
Guest:We'll keep it, you know, keep trying not to.
Guest:And the interesting thing is the guilt that it comes when you confess and then you continue to do it is greater.
Guest:So that's what I guess they intend for that to do is the guilt will make you stop, I guess, to have people ask you about it.
Marc:Well...
Marc:You know, one of the things that changed my mind around the thinking about this is I have a very I have a lot of respect for this author, Chris Hedges, who is he's a political writer, but he's also a critic.
Marc:He wrote a book called War is a Force.
Marc:It gives us meaning.
Marc:He was a seminary student.
Marc:He went into the ministry, Harvard Seminary School, I think.
Marc:And then he decided not to be a minister and he became a war correspondent in the Balkans and wrote a tremendous book about, you know, the nature of war.
Marc:But he wrote another book in a recent book.
Marc:He's written a book criticizing the the radical Christians here called American Fascism.
Marc:And he wrote a book as a response to the atheist books called I Don't Believe in Atheism.
Marc:I've heard of that book.
Marc:Yeah, it's a good book, and it's a short read.
Marc:But his understanding of sin made me look at it differently.
Marc:What sins are, are really a reminder that human beings aren't perfect.
Marc:and that there is no real perfecting them.
Marc:This is the way we're wired.
Marc:And it's a relatively short list if you really think about it, how human beings fuck up.
Marc:So the idea of sin was really developed as sort of a moral barometer for personal behavior.
Marc:And how you reckon with them, it has to be first, I mean, in the Christian ways, to realize that we aren't perfect, and on some level that's why Jesus died for us, is to be a constant reminder of that, and all we can do is do the best we can.
Marc:And these are the moral parameters, and most of them are pretty reasonable.
Marc:But I think when you get into beating yourself up for jerking off the porn too much, then that becomes a little crazy.
Marc:I mean, there are other issues there, but I think compulsive behavior, if it stands in between your relationship with others, i.e.
Marc:God, I mean, on some level, there's another Jewish...
Marc:Right.
Marc:But there's a Jewish existentialist Hasidic writer, Martin Buber, that talks about the relationship between I and thou, which, you know, on a broad level, it's personified in everyone.
Marc:So, you know, to sort of personify that behavior in what you identify as God is just being other people.
Marc:Then it becomes a little more relatable and a little more.
Marc:The struggle, it's not as weird and isolated.
Marc:This is clearly a barrier to me being selfless in this relationship.
Marc:Is that sort of what you deal with?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:For sins, you feel guilt and you feel just like anybody feels for being a bad person.
Marc:But that's a little much.
Marc:Bad person.
Marc:What would you have to do to feel like you're a bad person, really?
Guest:To...
Guest:gossip about somebody you know to do something that not only would I feel like a bad person about the person that I gossiped about but the person that I gossiped to about that person because then I just maybe brought you know brought somebody else into something they didn't need to be involved in or
Marc:Yeah, gossip's a fucking bitch, you know, because we're all guilty of it, you know, because the community we're in is just like a haven for it.
Marc:I get caught up in it all the time.
Marc:Yeah, and it really is destructive.
Marc:And especially in the age of Internet, character assassination is a big deal.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:And it can grow and build.
Marc:And it's just amazing that they were intuitive about that as far back as since human beings established communities.
Marc:That this is dangerous.
Marc:People will fall.
Marc:Cities will fall.
Marc:Relationships will be destroyed.
Guest:And it ruins names and then ruins everyone else's outlook.
Marc:All right, so let's take back.
Marc:You want to pray?
Guest:Let's take a knee.
Guest:Are you ready to accept the Lord as your savior?
Guest:I've done that.
Marc:What if that was my whole goal right to come in here?
Marc:Well, I mean, obviously, on some level it is, you know, not with me particularly.
Marc:But, you know, you said earlier that.
Marc:Well, no, I think just by nature of your honesty about it, you know, you're going to have an influence.
Marc:You know, I mean, I don't think I'm going to take Jesus into my heart, but I mean, you know, I think of you differently and not in a negative way.
Marc:And I think that that I'm sort of curious as to, you know, where you you kind of designated your your your your lapse.
Marc:I mean, what you say that now that you're in this community and, you know, I mean, what what started to fuck with you to sort of buckle your it doesn't seem like your faith really buckled.
Marc:But what kind of questions, when did that happen where you're like, huh, maybe I'm not right about this.
Guest:Tell me about this time in the desert.
Guest:When I left Seattle, actually when I went to Europe for my own little backpack, three months little trip, I definitely saw there was a bigger world out there and then I saw the way that America was looked at, which I wasn't aware of.
Guest:and just made me question a lot, and then I got back home and wanted to move to LA, and then right away I realized the cocoon that I was in and the things that I was surrounded by, especially with my parents.
Guest:My parents are also in the same way.
Guest:They don't go to church really anymore like they used to.
Marc:Right, but you seem to have a very good relationship with them.
Marc:I know every time, because I've seen you in Seattle like twice, and you're like, well, I'm going out with my cousin, my family, my this or that.
Guest:Yeah, they're very supportive.
Guest:Yeah, my dad is definitely my biggest, you know, fan, everything.
Marc:Well, that's sweet.
Marc:But do you find ever, like, do you ever sort of lapse into those moments, like being here in Los Angeles, where you're like, I'm in, like, this is like hell, this is like temptation, I can't.
Marc:No, I love it here.
Marc:I do love it here.
Marc:But do you ever have that type of crisis of faith where you're like, I'm being tested?
Guest:Well, also, like, I've just been in, like, a rut for a month just being terrible.
Guest:Or, you know, just whether it's being mean to people, depressed, and then in my own head, and then putting that out.
Marc:Not thinking of other people first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I do that.
Guest:I don't know how often I do think of other people first.
Guest:Isn't that part of it?
Guest:It definitely is part of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, the sin of pride is a big one.
Guest:It's interesting because I don't think, I mean, well, especially with how popular shows with comics, I don't, I've never probably talked to most, you know, comedian friends about that side of my life.
Guest:So it'll be interesting to see people.
Marc:You comfortable with it?
Guest:The way they look at me now.
Guest:I mean, yeah, I'm not uncomfortable with it, but I am, you know, curious about it.
Marc:Well, I'd heard rumblings about this.
Guest:I'm curious of all the rumblings you've heard about me because it seems like there's a few, but probably a lot less than I imagined.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I so rarely am out, you know, and I don't talk to people that much, you know, in here sometimes.
Marc:But someone had said, I think that, you know, you're pretty Christian.
Marc:And it wasn't in a negative way.
Marc:And I sort of knew that in the back of my head, but I didn't know what that meant.
Marc:And I honestly don't...
Marc:Look, you know, good people are good people.
Marc:And the truth is, is that as bad a rap as Christianity gets in terms of the way it's stereotyped around social issues, there's a lot of very reasonable, decent Christians.
Marc:And I think that if anything, at a core level, that Christianity or the tenets of
Marc:of how one is to see the world and treat other people.
Marc:There's nothing bad about it.
Marc:It's what you said.
Marc:It's when churches get involved and politics gets involved and people are taken advantage of because of their beliefs and led astray.
Marc:But that's an old story.
Marc:The one thing I do know is I'm definitely not one of those guys.
Marc:I've actually gone on stage now recently where I literally will say I'm not an atheist.
Marc:I just don't give a shit.
Marc:And I know that sensitive people could hear the pain in that.
Marc:And certainly Christians are sort of like, he's game.
Marc:He's ready.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Let's talk to him after the show.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:But they don't.
Marc:And I've defied them on stage before.
Marc:I said, as much as I criticize this stuff, none of you have ever come up to me afterwards and tried to save my soul.
Marc:And I am a prize.
Guest:Well, how many people come out to your show, do you think, trying to save you?
Guest:They're probably coming out as fans.
Marc:Right, but I get a lot of baked goods, a lot of knitted caps, so they're a very nurturing bunch.
Marc:But I think a lot of them... They care about you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the weird thing is I don't feel that desperate.
Marc:I don't feel that life is meaningless.
Marc:I don't feel that it's empty.
Marc:I do have a lot of aggravation, and I do obviously...
Marc:satiate myself.
Marc:I'm sucking nicotine lozenges.
Marc:I drink a lot of coffee.
Marc:I jerk off a lot.
Marc:I'm sort of compulsive sexually.
Guest:I've heard.
Marc:But I have those things.
Guest:Heard rumblings of that.
Marc:Yeah, rumblings.
Marc:I definitely have those things, and I acknowledge them not in the same way that you would frame them as sin, but I know compulsive behavior, and I know from my experience with other compulsive behavior how it diminishes your capacity for true relationship.
Marc:I mean, I get all that, but I just don't see that there's going to be a day where I'm like, Jesus is going to answer all these questions and give me a context.
Marc:I get the context.
Marc:But, you know, not unlike Christianity that the struggle, there is no perfection and that, you know, spirituality is a process.
Marc:So along those lines, just in the same way that you came to terms with with where you stand on abortion, you come to terms personally with, you know, well, what can I bear?
Marc:you know what can i live with how much is this destroying me on the inside you know life is pretty short which i guess why you know heaven is attractive to some people it's like but see i can't they want to they want to believe that there is something better where you get a little relief yeah you know in the back of their head it's like yeah yeah when you've got an ira out there yeah yeah and where you stand on that
Marc:On having an IRA?
Marc:On having heaven.
Marc:Oh, I don't know.
Marc:You think it's there?
Guest:Do I think there's a heaven?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hell?
Guest:I hope I make it.
Marc:You think there's a hell?
Guest:I don't think there could be one without the other.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:I hope that there's not a hell.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, Nick.
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:Don't stop it.
Marc:God bless you.
Marc:You got to say God bless yourself.
Marc:God bless yourself.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Is that what Christians say?
Marc:No, it's probably the wrong thing.
Marc:God bless you too.
Marc:You did it wrong again.
Guest:May Jesus be with you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I don't want to end like that.
Marc:You don't?
Marc:Well, if it makes you any better, I wouldn't know whether he's with me or not.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Nick Thune, what a great conversation and surprising and open and vulnerable in a way that I've not experienced on the show before.
Marc:And I really appreciate him coming down again.
Marc:Is it again or is it just now?
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Marc:You can do all that at WTFPod.com.
Marc:And come to Rooster Teeth Feathers in Sunnyvale, July 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th.
Marc:I will be there on stage talking into a microphone.
Marc:Todd Hanson on Thursday.
Marc:This is a deep week.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say.
Guest:This is a deep week.