Episode 183 - Amy Poehler
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuckies?
Marc:That was a new one.
Marc:I like that one.
Marc:What the fucking hooks?
Marc:I got to talk to you guys directly in just a second.
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I am here in the garage at the cat ranch today on the show.
Marc:Amy Poehler.
Marc:Very exciting to talk to her.
Marc:You know, we do have a past, not a sordid past, not a romantic past, but I do remember when she moved to New York and that will be part of the discussion.
Marc:I'm here in the garage wrestling with my new glasses.
Marc:As you know, I told you about my optometrist and that experience was amazing.
Marc:much more rewarding than actually picking up my glasses.
Marc:I don't know what it is about me, or maybe this is a common thing with people that wear glasses.
Marc:Every few years, you're like, wow, I need new glasses.
Marc:Do I really need new glasses?
Marc:No, I think on some level, what you're saying is I have been blessed with the gift of shitty eyes, which enables me to change the appearance of my face
Marc:every few years or whenever I'd like that to happen.
Marc:I can change the appearance of my face.
Marc:I can become a new me because I have to.
Marc:I've got a problem.
Marc:Why don't you get Lasix?
Marc:It's dangerous.
Marc:Why don't you get contacts?
Marc:They irritate me.
Marc:All right, so I get to change my face.
Marc:So I went to the optometrist.
Marc:Then I went to Oliver Peoples, of course, because I love their frames and they're really expensive.
Marc:So you really feel like you're putting a lot of money
Marc:into making your face into a new face without actually cutting into your face.
Marc:So I ordered my glasses a couple weeks ago and I got them and I got to the store and I put them on and I'm like, wait, these are, how come, oh man, and the prescriptions is new and I can't really see and now, are these glasses working?
Marc:I got the progressives and now I'm moving my head up and down again like I did the first time I ever had them and I don't know if they're right and I'm not sure the glasses are right.
Marc:I'm not sure I like my new face.
Marc:Disappointing.
Marc:But the moment I bought them, when I put them on my face, I was like, I am new and different and powerful.
Marc:And they're not completely new, but different enough.
Marc:And I have just been born again with a new face.
Marc:And now I got the new glasses on and I'm not sure that I'm enjoying the new face.
Marc:But that's my problem.
Marc:I don't know if other people can relate to that.
Marc:And I'm not sure the prescription is right.
Marc:Every time I get a fucking new prescription, I spend weeks just going, are these right?
Marc:Squinting, wondering.
Marc:And then eventually you just forget about it and you deal with the slight blur.
Marc:That's how it works with me.
Marc:So what did I want to tell you about?
Marc:I feel like I've been keeping something from you because I tweeted about it and I finally figured out a way to talk about it other than just sort of blind excitement because I don't know that that's really my style.
Marc:It is, but it's usually a slight mania about something irritating me.
Marc:But there has been a shift in the way show business operates.
Marc:Obviously, I'm in my garage.
Marc:You guys know that.
Marc:But because of me doing this in my garage, I've become a little more popular than I was before the garage.
Marc:I mean, probably much more because I was I was bordering on obscure.
Marc:Then so because of the work I'm doing here in the garage and because of you people listening to the show, I got a book deal.
Marc:So I have to do that.
Marc:That's very exciting because I like the opportunity to write a book.
Marc:Now I have to to write the book and that's happening.
Marc:when i have time but it will get done there's nothing better than that feeling of impending doom around something that you really want to do it's that great feeling in college again your your brain goes back to that place it's like can i take an incomplete not going to happen i will write the book well that's very exciting but i also not long ago pitched a show a television show
Marc:based on my life as I live it now.
Marc:I'm a guy who does a podcast in his garage and people that people know from the world of celebrity and comedy come into my garage and they talk to me.
Marc:That's a reality.
Marc:Would that have been a reality 10 years ago?
Marc:Would Ben Stiller have come to my garage 10 years ago?
Marc:Would Conan O'Brien have been sitting here amidst my mess 10 years ago or even five years ago?
Marc:Absolutely not.
Marc:It just didn't exist as a thing that people would do.
Marc:But now it is.
Marc:So that's a reality.
Marc:I said, look, I'm a guy.
Marc:You know, my life is, you know, I've hit the wall with everything.
Marc:And I was at, you know, I was in trouble.
Marc:And now I, and now Conan O'Brien comes to my garage.
Marc:Now, if I'd pitched that five years ago, they would have said, that's a stretch.
Marc:You really think, you know, celebrities are going to come to your garage.
Marc:And now it's a reality.
Marc:So that is part of the show.
Marc:So then I pitched, you know, my relationship with,
Marc:with women, my ex-wife, my father, my producer, and we created a sort of show world, a world for a show to exist.
Marc:So I pitched that to a production company, and then we all went in and pitched it to a studio.
Marc:And they said, great, that sounds great.
Marc:We'd really like to do this.
Marc:So the studio then would, if they liked it, would go try to sell it to a network.
Marc:Now, this is just a way of doing things in show business.
Marc:But the way it used to happen is somebody would give somebody a lot of money.
Marc:I, you know, I've had a few times in my life, I've been given a lot of money to write, not a lot of money, but money to write a show about me, usually with another writer.
Marc:And then what happens generally is you write a script, you bring it into the executives and they go, well, I don't know, it doesn't speak so much to, you know, we need somebody young in there.
Marc:Well, it's not about that.
Marc:So then all of a sudden you've got, hey, look, my long-lost adopted son showed up who happens to be age-appropriate for the demographic they're trying to accommodate here with this show.
Marc:So then it all gets away from you, and then you just got paid a lot of money to basically have your idea fucked in the ass in front of you and humiliated.
Marc:And it's very sad to see an idea in that condition.
Marc:Once an idea gets raped by executives, you don't know how to handle it.
Marc:You've got to send the idea...
Marc:you know, into counseling and hopefully the idea, you know, can get back up on its feet or evolve in some way after such a horrendous, abusive tragedy.
Marc:But that's not the way it goes.
Marc:And theoretically, they've paid you enough money so you don't mind that your idea gets raped.
Marc:So now we don't have much money at all.
Marc:I don't get paid for this.
Marc:How do you do that?
Marc:How do you make this?
Marc:We got an opportunity.
Marc:We decided to shoot a mini pilot as a presentation because the money's not there to create a pilot.
Marc:But this is the way the industry works.
Marc:I'm a guy in my garage who has defined his voice by talking to you guys and talking to my peers and people I want to interview in my garage.
Marc:So that's my character.
Marc:Finally, I've arrived at my character.
Marc:Right now, my character is wearing glasses that have changed his face a little bit.
Marc:So the character is a little uncomfortable.
Marc:But the character of Mark is relatively defined.
Marc:So the production company gets the studio to kick in some bread and, you know, on a very minimal budget, shoot this mini pilot.
Marc:I've never had this experience before.
Marc:I've never shot anything that I created.
Marc:So I sat down with a writer, you know, a few months ago, Duncan Birmingham, brilliant guy, great writer.
Marc:And we put together this show about me and about some events in my life.
Marc:And the next thing I know, we're casting people and they're sending me options.
Marc:Who's going to play Mark's dad?
Marc:And I look at this list of people.
Marc:Ed Asner, you know, Alan Arkin, Elliot Gould.
Marc:Basically, you know, older Jewish men that we all know from movies and television.
Marc:So it turns out Ed Asner is going to do it.
Marc:Now, who's going to play my girlfriend?
Marc:This woman named Angela Trimber.
Marc:She's an improv actress.
Marc:She's a little crazy.
Marc:So that looks great.
Marc:And then she has some housemates that are kind of stoners.
Marc:So who's going to do that?
Marc:Then all of a sudden, Matt Jones is involved, the guy who plays Badger in Breaking Bad.
Marc:Hilarious.
Marc:And my buddy Sean Patton, Seth Morris from the UCB.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:Played my producer.
Marc:Now there's a brief couple of lines for a black comic.
Marc:Who's that?
Marc:Well, how about Kamau?
Marc:Kamau's my buddy, so he flies down from San Francisco.
Marc:So who's going to play the vet?
Marc:How about Erin Daniels from The L Word?
Marc:She's a great actress.
Marc:She's in, too?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:And then we're like, who's going to play the cats?
Marc:Oh, fuck.
Marc:How are we going to get we got to have we need a cat guy.
Marc:This is sort of tricky.
Marc:I need I need it.
Marc:I need the cat actors.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:They're they're they're they're not as reliable.
Marc:But but the point being is, you know, over a few months time and I sort of put it on the back burner because I don't let myself get excited anymore.
Marc:I've been too broken hearted by this business on too many junctures, which happens.
Marc:So I just put my expectations into the right place.
Marc:I got a lot of good people working on this.
Marc:I will show up to work.
Marc:And sure enough, the day comes on Thursday and my house is filled with a camera crew.
Marc:They're shooting like it seemed like with five or six video cameras.
Marc:There's a craft services.
Marc:There's a video village set up.
Marc:My deck is full of stuff.
Marc:There are people around.
Marc:And thank God for Ken Jeong.
Marc:I asked him to be the guest.
Marc:and uh and he agreed so he's playing himself so i got ken jong in the house we're shooting in the garage and ed asner shows up and i got ed asner sitting in my living room wondering where his coffee is and given all the swirl and the budget we were on i got to make ed asner coffee in the middle of all this chaos and he's working his lines and we're rehearsing and i'm on my driveway with ed asner within about 10 minutes he's calling me uh you know a bastard and a cocksucker and uh you know just being a cranky old fuck that he is and he was genius
Marc:So the thing I was most nervous about was my scene with Ed Asner.
Marc:Meanwhile, Monkey and LaFonda are locked in my bedroom through the whole shoot, freaking out.
Marc:So we have this great day where we shoot this scene where I get in a fight with my girlfriend, and it gets ugly.
Marc:And then, of course, it's all slightly tweaked.
Marc:You know that doesn't happen with me.
Marc:And we shot for like 18 hours in my house, and I felt pretty proud of myself.
Marc:And I got through that first hoop, and then we were going to shoot again the next day.
Marc:And...
Marc:I walk into my bedroom to see my cats, and one of them had taken a big shit on the bed.
Marc:But not on the bed, like directly centered in the middle of my white comforter.
Marc:There was just a nice pile of compact cat shit.
Marc:So no matter what excitement we find in our life, you always be brought back down to earth by something.
Marc:And on that day, it was just a very sort of decisive and strategic bit of cat shit.
Marc:It was almost sort of like, all right, this is your reward for not thinking about us first.
Marc:God forbid.
Marc:So I hadn't acted in a while, and I got to be honest with you, it's always been difficult playing me in almost any situation.
Marc:That's been the struggle of my entire life was, how do I play me?
Marc:And of course, I did the shoot before I got the new glasses, so I was more comfortable with the role.
Marc:Um...
Marc:But it was great, and the next day of shooting was great.
Marc:I'm very excited.
Marc:It's not something you guys are going to see.
Marc:The director we used was Luke Matheny, who won, as you remember, he was actually the greatest thing about the Academy Awards.
Marc:He won the Best Live Action Short Academy Award, and he was just...
Marc:All excited.
Marc:So he shot the thing.
Marc:It was spectacular.
Marc:It was great to work with a group and ensemble to be in the hands of people that knew what they were doing and for me to just focus on being me.
Marc:And you know how hard that is for me.
Marc:But unfortunately, it's not something you're going to see.
Marc:It's something we hope TV stations will be interested in.
Marc:I think we did a great job.
Marc:And I just want to thank everybody that was part of it and Dr. Ken for showing up for me.
Marc:It was really great.
Marc:And then, you know, a day after the shoots yesterday, I wanted to buy a dresser.
Marc:I need a dresser.
Marc:So I go to this furniture store and I'm looking at stuff.
Marc:And I see Jimmy Kimmel in the store who I've met a few times.
Marc:We we know each other a bit.
Marc:But I've got my new glasses on and and I sort of approached him slowly.
Marc:And I said, can I help you?
Marc:And he turned around, he goes, well, I'm just looking for, and then he notices it's me.
Marc:And he goes, oh, but there was that split second there where even though he knew it was me, he wasn't sure whether or not I was working at the furniture store.
Marc:We addressed that.
Marc:And he bought the dresser that I wanted.
Guest:You get really close to the mic when you talk, huh?
Marc:I do.
Marc:With these mics, I find... I mean, you can pull back a little, but I'm just looking for a level.
Marc:So what is going on?
Marc:You're done with this... By the way, Amy Poehler is in my garage.
Guest:Hello, Mark.
Marc:It's nice to see you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:It's very nice to be here.
Marc:I'm very excited you're here.
Marc:Aziz Ansari seems to be obsessed with you being here.
Marc:He's literally like, is she coming on?
Marc:I really want to hear that.
Marc:Don't you guys talk over there?
Guest:It sounds like I'm going to have to do a lot of talking about Aziz to make it satisfying for him.
Marc:Well, I think that's probably right.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:He probably did that to hear about himself.
Marc:No, for some reason, I thought it was like, I never talk to her.
Marc:She just doesn't talk to me.
No.
Marc:Like Amy's by herself.
Marc:She doesn't talk to anyone on set.
Guest:I've never made eye contact or made a full sentence of Aziz.
Guest:Well, Aziz is like... He's so talented and performing so much, but he also has that old school UCB.
Guest:He likes to listen to the lore, I think.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I think so, right?
Marc:Well, I think I talk to him, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of...
Marc:history i mean how old is he what is he 30 yeah i don't know so i everyone under 30 i think is 20. yeah and we're like i guess we're kind of old timers now are we yeah i think so and i mean i met you but wait let's go what so you're done taping and you go back to new york how does that work for you yeah we tape out here so i've been out here a lot but i still live in new york so does and no one no one lives in new york anymore
Marc:Well, I know.
Marc:Something went wrong.
Guest:Everyone's gone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, no.
Marc:Jodi Lennon's there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And a couple of people there.
Marc:The people that revolve around
Marc:The Daily Show and some of those other shows, but I don't know, it became impractical to live there after a certain point.
Guest:Honestly, I think it was like a post-2001 exodus.
Marc:You think so?
Guest:Yeah, the past 10 years, everyone's been moving away.
Marc:Didn't you get a place like right down there?
Guest:Yeah, I used to live down near there, but now I live a little bit, I live in the West Village now, but yeah.
Marc:And you're here most of the time, so does Will hang out here?
Guest:Yeah, we go back and forth.
Marc:But you're together.
Marc:It's not like, I'm leaving the kids with you.
Marc:I've got things to do here.
Marc:You're actually a functioning family.
Guest:We're actually like a traveling circus.
Marc:How many kids do you have?
Marc:Two kids.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Two kids under three.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:So people love you on the plane.
Guest:Oh, it's a nightmare.
Marc:I can't even imagine.
Guest:Well, we do that thing where we go around and you know how you don't want to talk to anybody anyway on the airplane.
Marc:Sure, right.
Guest:I'm glad I'm doing my airplane material.
Marc:No, airplane's good.
Marc:You open right up with it.
Marc:You open strong.
Guest:But you have to go around and kind of apologize in advance.
Guest:And it's like helpful if they recognize me.
Guest:So you have to do that thing you hate where you have to go and kind of like show them and be like, hey, these are my kids.
Guest:And they go, oh, you're, and I go, I am.
Guest:And we're going to,
Guest:Isn't it going to be fun how bad they're going to be?
Marc:You do a whole circle around the area?
Guest:Yeah, we do like a circle around the area.
Guest:And it works because you don't stress about the fact.
Marc:Do you have shitty kids on the plane?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:They're good.
Marc:I saw, what's her name?
Marc:Amy Adams?
Marc:Is that the red-headed actress?
Marc:She was like right next to me with her kid.
Marc:And...
Marc:And, you know, it's weird when you see movie stars on planes anyways.
Marc:And then you're with their kid.
Marc:And now you're like, oh, I might have reason to hate her.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:If that kid.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they're nervous, too.
Marc:So it offers other people a window into your fear and vulnerability.
Guest:It does.
Guest:I say, like, I want you to know we have a lot of toys and stuff.
Guest:And we're going to work really hard.
Guest:And we're going to.
Guest:But he might lose it.
Guest:And I hope while he's losing it, you recognize me and you're OK with it.
Marc:And you realize she's really funny.
Marc:She's given us hours of laughter.
Marc:I had some kid on the plane the other last week or so, like had, like had a, not only was it crying, but it had an unusual cry, which was twice as irritating.
Marc:And I hate when I actually hate them.
Marc:Like I feel hate.
Guest:I don't like anyone else's kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:you think having kids makes you like all kids but it doesn't you just like your kids yeah is there but do you like actually resent them like that kid oh good good for you that's good for you especially if you're by yourself because you're like i don't have my kids now this is the time i'm supposed to pretend like i'm 24 and yeah and then you go play yeah and then traveling the world by myself no yeah it doesn't happen do you are all your friends have kids too though
Guest:Some, some don't.
Guest:A lot of, I have a lot of friends that don't have kids and a lot of ladies, lady friends are still single.
Marc:Oh really?
Marc:Are they happy?
Marc:You don't have to go into it.
Marc:I mean, I just don't know.
Marc:Cause my mom always says that you'll find an age appropriate woman.
Marc:And I'm like, well, why?
Marc:What happens then?
Marc:Do you sit around and go, well, we blew it.
Marc:Here we are.
Marc:Kit, you're lucky.
Marc:You're lucky you got a guy you like.
Guest:I know, you're right.
Guest:But, you know, you have to kind of, at this point, you have to find people that have already been divorced.
Marc:Divorced, oh yeah, at least once.
Guest:If you're in your 40s and you're a man and you haven't been divorced at least once, there's something up.
Marc:Oh yeah, same with a woman.
Marc:I mean, if you meet a 45-year-old woman who's never been married, you're like, well, this is a match made in, I don't even know where, it's gonna be rough.
Marc:So are you, now what happened?
Marc:So you shot how many?
Marc:I don't understand how television works.
Guest:Okay, well, we shoot.
Marc:You have cameras.
Guest:We shoot cameras, and we say words out of our mouths, and then they shoot it up into space, and it comes back.
Guest:We just finished season three, and then we're gonna pick up season four in July, have a regular schedule, hopefully.
Marc:Okay, so what was it?
Guest:But we did a weird shooting thing because I was pregnant, and so we had to shoot around that.
Marc:I've seen you on TV pregnant before.
Guest:I'm so tired of it.
Marc:I mean, you're just up there with your pregnancy.
Marc:Yeah, it's... On SNL, right?
Marc:Didn't you go on SNL?
Guest:SNL was I got to be... I danced, yeah.
Guest:That's all I did.
Marc:So I just remember you dancing pregnant.
Marc:And I thought, well, that's something.
Marc:Because there's a part of me that when I see pregnant women, it makes me uncomfortable because I don't see how that could be comfortable.
Guest:You're right.
Marc:I feel like you should just go home.
Guest:It's very interesting when you're no longer being sexualized.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:what happens it's kind of cool because you have to like rely on there's just no like men when you're pregnant act really weird they do yeah some of them act really like into you and let me touch your belly yeah and it's also weird yeah but a lot of guys like really they don't even want to like make eye contact with you it's very strange because i think they see you as handicapped somehow yeah you're sexually handicapped
Marc:But do you feel that objectification though?
Marc:I mean, do you feel that like in the business or what?
Guest:Well, when we were talking about being old, when I first knew you back in New York, I mean, I was what?
Marc:20?
Guest:No, let's see.
Guest:I was there in 93.
Marc:We can go through the process.
Marc:So I was 22, 23.
Marc:Yeah, I remember you.
Guest:Yeah, and it was a lot different.
Guest:I just got different attention.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:And it was.
Marc:And you had a different energy, too, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were all just kind of like, I felt like when we arrived in New York, we were kind of like that.
Guest:No, we were thought of as a little bit of like the hayseeds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were like the Chicago ones.
Guest:And, you know, only one of us was actually from Chicago.
Marc:But what was the trajectory?
Marc:You grew up where?
Guest:In Boston, a suburb outside of Boston.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:Burlington, Mass.
Marc:I know where that is.
Guest:It's near Lexington.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I spent a lot of time in there around those areas.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you have a family?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I have a family.
Marc:You have siblings?
Guest:I have a family of wolves.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I have a brother who lives in Stockholm.
Marc:In Sweden?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:He met a Swedish girl and he moved there.
Marc:That sounds like the luckiest guy in the world.
Guest:It's like socialism at its best.
Marc:Is he happy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He has free health care.
Guest:He has two great kids.
Guest:They have free daycare.
Marc:Everyone's kind of attractive.
Guest:Everyone's attractive.
Guest:It's terrible weather.
Marc:Really?
Marc:It's gray.
Guest:But he speaks Swedish.
Marc:Did he always?
Guest:No, he learned it.
Marc:Oh, my.
Guest:Is he older or younger?
Guest:He's three years younger.
Marc:And he's locked in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's Swedish now.
Guest:I thought he was going to try it and he was going to miss America so much that he would come back.
Guest:And he's locked in.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Did you go see him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's this awesome, crazy house.
Marc:Like an Ikea house?
Guest:Yeah, it folds up at night.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:Yeah, it's amazing.
Marc:And you build it yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it comes in sections?
Guest:My husband and I used to say that Ikea is Swedish for argument.
Guest:That's my one joke I'll tell today.
Marc:Okay, so you grew up there and you went to college?
Guest:My parents were teachers.
Marc:Oh my God, that's so... You know, lefties.
Marc:Lefty teachers.
Marc:Dukakis.
Guest:You know, we like fundraise for Dukakis.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Good Massachusetts lefties.
Marc:And there was a high, you were taught that learning is good.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What kind of teachers were they?
Guest:My mom was a special ed teacher.
Guest:She was all different kinds of first grade.
Guest:And then she got her master's and she taught special ed in her high school.
Guest:And my dad was a Boston public school teacher.
Marc:You might be one of the well-adjusted ones.
Guest:Yeah, but I think there's a lot of well-adjusted ladies.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's different.
Guest:It's a different story.
Guest:There's a lot of good girls, at least in my class.
Marc:In comedy, you mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, I think you sort of have to be.
Marc:Well, there's a couple ways you can go with that.
Marc:Either you're a comedy girl that fucks all the comics and then ends up that girl.
Marc:It's very hard to rise above that, though it happens.
Right.
Marc:It happens.
Marc:Or you're the one that works hard and you've got to be really fucking funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're one of them.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But that's when we used to perform with you.
Guest:I know.
Guest:When UCB and we would be on the same bill.
Guest:It was a lot of like...
Marc:different styles well there well what happened was let's go back wait let's finish up where you came from so just so i know so you're in boston i went to boston college oh see that's like i went to bu in the boston college where are you catholic yeah uh-huh so did you get in automatically because you're catholic yeah they just they just right they open the door and they just kick in a plaid skirt you're like am i in yeah like yes
Marc:But that's a good school.
Marc:You're smart in advance.
Guest:It was a great school, but I shouldn't have gone there.
Guest:I didn't... There were a lot of rich... I grew up very middle class with a lot of rich kids there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I wasn't prepared for that.
Marc:A lot of real preppies there.
Guest:Really, like a lot of prep school kids.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was... I felt...
Marc:Did you resent him?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was there a class warfare?
Guest:Yeah, I just didn't.
Guest:I didn't even get the language.
Guest:I didn't understand, you know.
Marc:Oh, and they all wore those stupid pants and everything.
Guest:And they knew how to decorate their dorm rooms really well.
Marc:Yeah, with like, you know, L.L.
Marc:Bean stuff.
Marc:But they all, like that whole Boston College, to me it was just a bunch of, you know,
Marc:kind of pale irish looking men yeah who were a little stocky and either they played sports or they didn't but they all wore the same button-down shirts yeah and then like a bunch of the women were were shorter and either italian or irish looking am i generalizing yeah it's just like a sea of bad lays yeah that's right yeah and there you were and there i was and that's when you started what were you what'd you major in
Guest:I was communications.
Marc:That's good and vague.
Marc:Yeah, you can do anything with that.
Marc:The communications major.
Guest:And it was, there were like a few interesting Jesuits at the time who were kind of cool, even though they would like, you know, even back then they were living in beautiful mansions paid for by the church.
Guest:And now we know, God knows what was going on.
Guest:They were like really sophisticated gay men.
Marc:Not out gay.
Guest:No, God, no.
Guest:But, you know, everyone was like, we all understand what's happening.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:That's why you're interesting.
Guest:And then I started to realize, oh, no, I'm at this big school and I feel lost.
Guest:And so I just gravitated toward...
Guest:improv group in college I saw improv for the first time and it was this improv group like some you know goofy name yeah one of many goofy names you don't remember it was yeah my mother's fleabag and it was this old improv group you know had been around for at that time 15 years or something oh and I loved it I saw the show and I was like oh this is funny yeah I think I can do this yeah I was trying to figure out what to do I was acting and I knew I I didn't
Guest:I didn't think I could be a stand up.
Guest:And so I liked it.
Guest:So I started doing that and then kind of living off campus and hanging with like the kind of those kind of kids.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Bongs, beer, bongs, staying up late.
Guest:But, you know, and just like a lot of like hating the school that we were in.
Marc:So after college, you went to Chicago.
Guest:So I went to Chicago, and I knew I wanted to do Second City.
Guest:Studied there, and at the time, when I arrived in Chicago, Steve Carell and Steve Colbert and Amy Sedaris were like the seniors.
Guest:They were like doing their last goodbye show.
Marc:I can't even imagine what that was like.
Marc:There was definitely that hierarchy and everyone knew who the geniuses were.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, because they had been... You kind of got filtered through the system until you were on stage.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And the people that were on stage were called from all these classes and people.
Guest:So you realize, oh, the people you're watching are the best people.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And they were really good.
Guest:And they were really good.
Marc:Did you talk to Amy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, for the longest time, Amy was like...
Guest:And most people would mix us up.
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Guest:And I'm sure she fucking hated it because she was way more talented and successful than I was.
Guest:And she was always like, you know, ahead of just doing everything that I wanted to do, like on stage at Second City, had her own sketch show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like writing and doing stuff.
Marc:I have not seen her in so long.
Marc:I see her books occasionally, but I don't know what she does.
Marc:Her books are so funny.
Guest:She still intimidates me a little bit in person.
Marc:She's one of those people who sort of got her own time zone.
Marc:Like when you're around her, you're like in Amy land.
Guest:Like, I really want to be friends with her really badly.
Guest:And I think she wants to be friends with me, but I don't know, but I can't ever... I just am too... It's just a status thing.
Guest:Like, she'll always be higher status.
Marc:Isn't that weird that that weird shit doesn't go away?
Marc:No.
Marc:That feeling of like, hi, can you just like me?
Guest:I remember Lorne Michaels telling a story that like...
Guest:George Harrison met Paul McCartney when, you know, like Paul McCartney was in eighth grade and George Harrison was in fifth grade and it never went away.
Guest:Like their entire adult lives, you know, George always did what Paul said.
Guest:Like, I feel like that stat, once it locks in, it never goes away.
Marc:So, okay, so you go to Chicago and Del Close is still alive?
Guest:Del Close and he was the guru at the time.
Marc:How much longer was he alive?
Guest:He was, oh, I think I probably met him in the last six or seven years of his life.
Guest:He was teaching still, and I took his classes.
Marc:Was he amazing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he was...
Marc:He invented modern improv, kind of.
Guest:Yeah, he's kind of like the most famous guy in comedy that the public, you know, that nobody really knows.
Guest:He started in the 60s with this group called The Committee.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:With like Elaine May and Mike Nichols and all that.
Marc:They're funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, that Mike Nichols did all right for himself.
Guest:Yeah, he's doing pretty good.
Guest:He's a talented kid.
Marc:Yeah, he is.
Marc:I think we're going to see more from him.
Guest:And then Del was the one that was like the troublemaker.
Guest:And he kind of stuck around and was the teacher while everyone else.
Guest:And he had a lot of anger and resentment about the fact that he wasn't more famous.
Marc:But he never left.
Guest:He never left.
Guest:And he was also a drug addict.
Guest:And he was a super interesting guy.
Guest:And just when you're like an impressionable student, you need...
Guest:That teacher that's like really cranky that everyone's afraid of and is very like iconic.
Guest:And he was that guy.
Guest:Like the genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, you know, all his contemporaries went on to big things, but he stayed here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To simmer in his own juices.
Guest:And at the time it was very noble.
Guest:Whereas like with some distance, you were like, well, I didn't ever get it together.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, I don't know if that like I do that too sometimes, but thank God he didn't.
Guest:for sure.
Guest:And he was an awesome teacher and he really was a genius.
Guest:He really was.
Marc:How did that manifest itself?
Marc:Like what would be an encounter that would make you go, holy shit.
Guest:Tina and I always joke about it because we took, Tina Fey and I took classes together with him and we were like, this genius, here we go.
Guest:And you know, like impressionable 21 year olds or whatever.
Guest:And he just, for like eight weeks, just sat in class and just complained.
Guest:He'd just gotten false teeth and he just took his teeth in and out and just fucking complained about how much his teeth hurt.
Guest:And we're like, this fucking old man, what the fuck is he talking about?
Guest:It's a genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, he never laughed at anything.
Guest:He never thought anything was funny.
Guest:And then he'd just say one really amazing thing every week.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That you never forget.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he created this community of people who felt like they belonged.
Marc:They were hanging on his every word.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they were just waiting for the genius.
Guest:Yeah, and they were like sitting at his feet.
Marc:I once had this idea for a show called Living with the Genius, which was like a bunch of young people who were at a group house.
Marc:And there was this one dude there that was like 40 or 50 years old.
Marc:And there's this myth built up around him.
Marc:Like he'd done this one thing or like he's a genius.
Marc:But like during the entire run of the series, he just says things like, whose milk is this?
Guest:And everyone just.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:That's a really funny idea.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know what that meant.
Marc:I'm not in the sketch world.
Marc:So every once in a while I talk about it.
Guest:That's a good idea.
Marc:This one sketch I wrote.
Marc:I don't have the, you know, it takes too much, too much rejection involved in that world.
Guest:I know.
Marc:So you guys, you did your renegade things for you and Ian and Matt.
Marc:Yeah, so then I met those guys.
Guest:They were like the Matt and Matt.
Guest:Matt Besser and Ian Roberts at the time and Adam McKay.
Guest:I've talked to him.
Guest:Yeah, I listened to it.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:And Neil Flynn, Ali Faranakian, and Miles Stroth, all these guys.
Guest:Ali Faranakian.
Guest:Yeah, you know Ali.
Guest:I do.
Guest:And they were all performing in this group called The Family, which was like the, you know, it was at the time in Chicago at that theater at the ImprovOlympic Theater.
Guest:They were the top dogs.
Guest:And I watched them and I was like, okay, I want to be like them.
Marc:It just amazes me that there's this process in this like it's actually a more effective way to weed out talent than than than stand up because there's no one doing that.
Guest:Yeah, no, there really is a thing like anybody at some points you did get stopped.
Guest:Yeah, at some point someone was like, you can't come into this next level.
Marc:Yeah, no, you can't do the comics because they're like, I killed for seven people last night.
Marc:I'm continually killing.
Guest:Well, I could talk forever about the difference between, because when we would perform with stand-ups in the same, you know, back then.
Guest:I remember when that happened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, man, it was tough.
Guest:I mean, because we were so uncool.
Guest:I mean, we would, like, bring props.
Marc:But look what's happened now.
Marc:I mean, look, everything's turned around.
Marc:No, it hasn't.
Marc:Oh, no, no.
Marc:It used to be the coolest.
Guest:Sketch is still uncool.
Marc:That is so crazy.
I think it is.
Marc:You're running show business.
Marc:You and that Tina lady have taken over all of it.
Marc:Really?
Marc:We are?
Marc:Great.
Guest:But I just remember lugging costumes and wigs and fake blood and stupid fucking props.
Guest:And then you guys, you putting out a cigarette and then walking up on stage and talking about yourself and me having to be some character in the audience.
Guest:And it was so hard to dig in and...
Marc:I just want, it's just like last night it happened at your theater.
Guest:I'm sure, and you, and by the way, you always hated when we would make you, like we would always make you introduce us as someone else.
Guest:I know.
Guest:You hated it, and you would always sell us out.
Marc:I did.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You would always be like, introduce us as this group from Washington, D.C., like this, because we're going to do a bit where we pretend that we're like Christian singers, and you would go, all right, these guys want me to introduce that.
Marc:Oh, I did not do that.
Marc:Yes, you would.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I couldn't even play along.
Guest:You hated it.
Guest:You hated it.
Marc:Well, okay.
Marc:Well, last night I did my stand-up at Death Ray, and I was in the dressing room with Nick Kroll and a couple other people.
Marc:And Nick's like, well, anyway, so I do my set, and I come on, and sure enough, I walk off, and backstage, Nick is standing there with a blonde wig.
Marc:I'm like, have a good time.
Guest:See?
Guest:See, you felt cooler than him.
Guest:You have to admit it.
Marc:Look, I don't have the courage to do what you do.
Guest:Same.
Guest:I don't have the courage to do what you do.
Marc:Well, I mean, that's really what it comes down to.
Marc:I mean, like, there's part of me, I'd love to sing and dance and wear hats.
Marc:But I'm just, I don't know if it's going to happen.
Guest:That's what you think I do.
Guest:You think I sing and dance and wear hats.
Guest:Is that condescending?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I wish I could sing and dance and wear hats.
Marc:No, no, I did not say that.
Marc:There's part of me that I'd like to be a song and dance man.
Marc:And I'd like to be able to wear a wig and do a funny voice.
Guest:I remember very specifically thinking, man, what it would be like to get up on stage and just be me, be myself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's very scary, and also there must be some relief in not having to, I don't know, just the whole rigmarole that came with it.
Marc:But you have to lose yourself in a character.
Marc:But the thing is, I think that despite that, throughout all your characters, you did some really funny,
Marc:I mean, you still do.
Marc:But I mean, like, I remember them like the Andy Richter sister thing.
Marc:I mean, that shit was hilarious.
Marc:And the stuff you did on SNL.
Marc:I mean, I see who you are in all your characters.
Marc:So, I mean, you cross a certain line.
Marc:You're not one of those people that you're like, who is that person?
Marc:But those people are great, too.
Marc:Like Fred Armisen.
Marc:I'm not sure what's going on in there, but he's certainly a genius.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:He is.
Guest:You got to get him.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I had him on the live one.
Marc:He was so sweet.
Guest:He's so great.
Guest:He is the funniest.
Guest:He's one of the most naturally funniest people I've ever met.
Marc:Inspired.
Marc:But so subtle.
Marc:It's just weird that the choices he makes, you're literally like, did he become that person?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he's one of those guys I look at and I'm constantly thinking, what's going on?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I've seen him with other people because he's always joking around in a really subtle way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's always ready to joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All the time.
Guest:And I love it.
Guest:But I see some people, they don't know how to handle it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, when we would perform in like a variety show, kind of like rebar.
Marc:I was an asshole.
Marc:There's no doubt.
Marc:You were an asshole, yeah.
Marc:I mean, Matt used to drive me mad.
Guest:Well, you two, I remember you guys getting in a fight.
Guest:I don't know if you and Besser talked about this.
Guest:I don't think you did, but I remember you getting in a fight at Zach Galifianakis.
Guest:Zach used to have an apartment next to Luna, remember?
Guest:Right, yes.
Guest:There was like a roof in the Lower East Side we all used to go to after shows.
Marc:And this one you were dating, Besser?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How long did that go on for?
Guest:We dated for like four years.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We moved from Chicago to New York together as a couple and lived as a couple.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And started the UCB as newer couple.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then broke up while we were doing our sketch show.
Marc:Was that bad?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bad breakup.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:Not a bad breakup.
Guest:It was just like so tough to work with someone.
Marc:I couldn't imagine that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So what happens?
Marc:I yelled at him.
Guest:Yeah, well, you guys were yelling at each other because you just said some shitty comment on stage about our stupid bit or something.
Marc:Oh, come on.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:About the whole bit?
Guest:I felt like you hated us back then.
Guest:At the time, I thought you thought we were so uncool.
Marc:Who was I to think cool?
Marc:I just didn't understand.
Marc:I had this stupid idea that there were these camps.
Marc:I mean, it wasn't just you.
Marc:There was stand-up, and then there was the sketch thing.
Guest:But that was true, though.
Marc:And then there was this performance art thing that was even more difficult.
Marc:Michael Portnoy taking his penis out and putting it in pill jars.
Guest:Laura D. kind of falls under that category.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And Reverend Jen, who I love, though.
Marc:Yes, me too.
Marc:Because Reverend Jen is inspired.
Marc:I agree.
Marc:There are definitely people that are inspired, but there are definitely people that were just...
Marc:Kind of like a little nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I just felt like I felt territorial.
Marc:That's all.
Guest:We did too.
Guest:We just didn't know how to express.
Guest:And, you know, we came into New York when there were these like cool sketch groups, like even among the sketch groups, like the state.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:And there was a group called Live on Tape.
Guest:I remember them, yeah.
Guest:Mary Bird song.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:She's pretty genius.
Guest:And they were like the next thing.
Guest:They got a big show, I think, on MTV.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so even among our little subset, we were like, we felt like a bunch of Okies.
Guest:And so I think what that did do, we turned inward and we like really took, like, we just, I think we protect each other a lot and we also like worked really hard because I think at the time we didn't feel like
Marc:But you also created a business that no one else did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you created a school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's changed the face of show business.
Guest:I never would have predicted 10, 15 years ago it would be.
Guest:At the time, we just wanted a place to perform where we didn't have to pay anybody.
Marc:So you thought, well, you thought, well, we'll give classes.
Marc:We're all qualified.
Guest:It was all selfish motivation at the time.
Guest:It was like, we're paying money to perform.
Guest:There were these places in New York.
Guest:Do you remember KGB Theater?
Guest:It's probably still there.
Guest:The Crane Theater.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, upstairs.
Guest:And there were good places.
Guest:There were places in Tribeca, like Tribeca Lab.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was hard to find a place that Sketch worked in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there were really good theater owners, but most of them were awful.
Guest:They were really, like, grouchy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they were always telling us about what we were doing wrong.
Guest:We didn't make any money.
Guest:And we'd pay them, and then we'd have no one in the audience, and we'd lose money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we started teaching classes to make money to pay our rent, and we thought, like, okay, if we find a way to...
Guest:to take over space enough that we can, because all the guys were writing and everyone was directing other shows and other groups, and we started to perform at this place called Solo Arts in New York.
Guest:In the mid-90s.
Guest:You had to walk up the stairs, like a six-floor walk up.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was a dance studio.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we started programming stuff for them where basically our shows were like three, four or five nights a week.
Guest:And we started realizing, oh, we got to try to get a space so we don't have to, you know, we're providing all the content.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're not and we're not making any money.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then you got your space.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you got the school.
Guest:We got this.
Guest:We the school kind of came first.
Guest:And then eventually we got the our first theater in ninety eight.
Marc:And when was the TV show on Comedy Central?
Guest:The same time.
Marc:It was kind of all happening at the same time.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:That was the big UCB wave.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Big promotional.
Guest:I remember I got paid $5,000 a week to write it, be in it, and produce it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, this is it.
Guest:I made it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was the best thing that will ever happen to me.
Guest:And it was the hardest I've ever worked before or since by far.
Marc:But it's amazing that now, I mean, UCB is the place.
Marc:I mean, it's like there's it's sort of a it's like stand up in terms of what it is does not.
Marc:And I say this to people who come from UCB and who are sketch people.
Marc:It teaches people how to perform, write and work with other people.
Marc:That doesn't happen.
Marc:Stand-ups are like these fucked up lone wolves who are unmanageable.
Marc:But you guys, it's like everybody's so nice.
Marc:When I'm at the UCB, I'm like, what's going on?
Marc:Everyone likes each other here?
Marc:This is bullshit.
Marc:We're all having a good time?
Marc:What kind of show business is this?
Marc:Now, what was I yelling at Matt about?
Guest:You were yelling at him about, because I think it was, we did this bit one time where Matt would pretend he was a guy who was going to sing a song about somebody's day, and he'd pick someone from the audience, and I told him that I had an abortion, and he used to have to sing a song about abortion or something.
Guest:And I think he blew the bit before we even did it or something.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:I was that big a dick?
Guest:I think.
Guest:Maybe he didn't blow it.
Guest:Maybe I'm exaggerating.
Guest:But it was something, and I remember you and Bess are getting into it.
Marc:We always rubbed each other the wrong way.
Marc:I know.
Marc:We're okay now.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, you guys are more similar than you are.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:That's always the case.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Besser was, I got to say, in those early years, the one that told us we're going to do this.
Guest:Like, he...
Guest:He was the visionary.
Guest:He was the dreamer.
Guest:He was the one that talked about theaters and schools and shows in a way that I don't think, I know I couldn't even picture at the time.
Guest:He dragged us along in many ways for so many years.
Guest:And at the time, because I was the only girl, you just had to fend off getting picked apart.
Guest:That's what happened with those big sketch groups.
Guest:I think sometimes people were doing other jobs.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:People leaving, spinning off.
Marc:Just getting a job.
Marc:It wasn't like fame.
Guest:It was just like, do you want to try to do this?
Marc:I remember early on before the show and maybe a little after the show, everybody talked about you a lot as this sort of like...
Marc:This is the funniest person that nobody knows.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I mean, I remember that there was a lot of heat around you.
Marc:Now, you guys came to, you were in New York long before Tina came with Rachel.
Guest:Yeah, I came in 93.
Marc:And then Dratch and Faye showed up.
Guest:Dratch and Faye showed up later because Tina got hired, I think, in, gosh, I don't remember, but.
Marc:But there was a lot of buzz around you, and you were always really fucking funny.
Marc:And I can't believe that I was ever mean to you personally, because I always thought you were really fucking funny.
Guest:You were never mean to me personally.
Marc:Because I always had a lot of respect for what you were doing.
Marc:And I remember you definitely stood out.
Marc:So when was the, like, outside of the UCB show on Comedy Central, what was the big break?
Marc:I mean, when did that happen?
Guest:Well...
Marc:You started doing sketches on Conan.
Guest:You know, there was one moment.
Guest:I always was curious if you were there.
Guest:Do you remember, there was a moment, a night in New York in like 90, maybe it was 96, 97.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, I'll try.
Guest:Luna Lounge where everyone used to host a week of it.
Guest:And we hosted it.
Guest:It was a big deal to host it.
Guest:We were like really excited.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we got everyone in the audience high.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you remember that?
Guest:I kind of do remember that.
Guest:Everyone who performed was high.
Guest:And then we walked outside and Cynthia True, who was a New York... Writer.
Marc:She was right for the Time Out.
Marc:Yeah, Time Out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She did a thing where she walked down the street naked to raise money for her rent.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, I just remember it being like this New York moment where I, even then I was very, and Janine, I remember Gene Garofalo like running up to her and offering her money.
Guest:Like, don't do it.
Guest:You don't have to do it.
Guest:I guess Janine was like totally neurotic about it.
Guest:And anyway, I just remember that being like the quintessential, like for me.
Marc:Melding of drugs, Lower East Side performance art.
Marc:Drugs, nudity.
Marc:Yeah, sketch and everything.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:It all came together.
Marc:It's like, this is the pinnacle.
Marc:It's been downhill ever since.
Guest:of what the lower east side meant yeah yeah i get that so where how did lauren find you so yeah um tina and and drach and ratio sands started working at snl and then i think you know they just told lauren about me and um and adam was there okay yeah and you know adam was the first guy of uh ucb to kind of leave and go get a real job and and he was always the one that
Marc:He certainly did all right for himself.
Marc:Yeah, he's doing pretty good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He was always, like, he's, like, I never, I always predicted huge success for him.
Guest:Like, he was always going to be successful.
Marc:Really?
Guest:In my mind.
Marc:Yeah, no one ever said that about me.
Marc:They always said, like, you know, he's going to, it's going to be a struggle for him because he's got a lot of problems.
Marc:I was always one of those, he's so talented, but I don't know if he's going to...
Marc:Why isn't it working out for that guy?
Marc:Brian P. Sam was in here yesterday.
Guest:Dave Becky didn't say that.
Guest:Dave Becky never said that.
Marc:To who?
Marc:About you.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:You were Dave Becky's number one.
Marc:Oh, come on.
Guest:Yes, you were.
Guest:You were his biggest client.
Marc:That was a long time ago.
Guest:Well, maybe.
Marc:No, he was always very supportive, and he always wished the best for me.
Marc:I just don't think I had... Whatever.
Marc:We don't need to talk about me.
Marc:Okay, okay, okay.
Marc:And that's a first.
Marc:I want that to be marked here on this show that Marc Maron just said, we don't need to talk about me.
Marc:Amy Power brought it out of me.
Guest:That's why I like to listen to this podcast, because I like...
Guest:to hear you talk about it.
Marc:Well, I was one of those guys where it was like everybody assumed that I had a certain thing and they'd all make up what that thing was.
Marc:Like, you know, he's got an attitude.
Marc:He's a, you know, he's a little angry.
Marc:He's like, they all had this idea of what I was, but I never quite fit into them completely.
Marc:So when I'd show up, I was always too much or too little or too, it was just not quite right until I do a show in my garage.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and Becky, yeah, he loved me and he was great with me.
Marc:But there just gets to be a point where, you know, they try with you over and over again.
Marc:And you don't realize this about representation because I think your trajectory was different where it becomes like a relationship.
Marc:Like after a while, you just it's like, I can't I don't know why it hasn't happened with this guy yet.
Marc:And then they just like there's this weird kind of like I have to assume that you begin to represent, you know, their failure as well, even though they didn't try anyway.
Marc:So yeah.
Marc:So it becomes a little weird like that.
Guest:It's like first wife syndrome.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:You know, kind of like that.
Marc:But, okay, so you do SNL.
Guest:Yeah, so then I started SNL in 2001.
Marc:Now, like when you said this thing about pregnant women and you said this about objectification and then, you know, Tina's book just came out and I heard Janine on NPR talking about Tina and and you guys work together.
Marc:And I've had this conversation before with women around comedy.
Marc:And I don't want to trivialize it or minimize things, but it's not easy for anybody in comedy.
Marc:No.
Marc:But what is a perception of women?
Marc:How do you feel?
Marc:Where do you stand with being a woman in comedy?
Guest:Well, I will say that I want to clarify that I never felt sexualized.
Guest:I wasn't some hot number in the comedy scene.
Guest:No, no, I know what you mean.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The only difference I see so far, as of today...
Guest:is that we always just kind of get compared.
Marc:That's the difference just in terms of like... Right, and I've got some criticism about talking about this in the way.
Marc:It's like funny people are funny people.
Marc:Why do you have to draw this along?
Guest:Right, I just don't see it as much with guys.
Guest:Other than that, I feel like, especially today, that like...
Guest:the opportunities are equal if, you know, I don't feel any sense that there's any place that I'm not allowed to go if I want to do it.
Guest:The only thing is just like the media likes to kind of compare us all to kind of say who they like more in terms of the 10 people they're thinking about.
Guest:And we're all so different.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, it's interesting too that I think when in regular acting and also in most other, you know, show business professions, the way that a woman's career goes, you know, a lot of times is relative to how they look.
Marc:and how they can continue to be cast.
Marc:Whereas when you're funny, if you continue to be funny, you sort of stay there.
Marc:Between you and Tina and Maria Bamford's a genius, and you really think about some women who had these long careers, you can go a lot further than if you were just a straight actor.
Guest:Yeah, and also Maria and Tina and Sarah and others, you just keep creating your own stuff, which most people have to do anyway.
Guest:It has nothing to do with whether or not you're a woman or not.
Guest:Most people, you have to create your own opportunity.
Guest:It's very rare that someone casts you in this perfect thing, and they give you this amazing script, and they're like, I wrote this for you.
Marc:It's very rare.
Marc:You have to generate.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are you and Tina pretty good friends?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, we've been friends forever.
Yeah.
Marc:It's very odd when you guys end up on TV, you know, just people I know in general.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Like, I don't, like, I just assume, like, I can't talk to those guys.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I'm like going to get a hold of Amy.
Marc:I mean, it's like, I'm going to go.
Guest:What?
Guest:Are you crazy?
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's crazy, right?
Marc:That's so weird.
Marc:I know I'm crazy.
Guest:Yeah, that's weird.
Guest:But I will say this moment, the water level, the amount of people we know and who are famous, I don't think it'll ever be this way again.
Guest:I feel like I know a lot, and this is going to sound so douchey, but it's real, which is...
Guest:the people that I kind of came up with, they're all working now.
Guest:Half of us will stop working.
Guest:I just feel like this is the highest level of people that I actually know and people that are working and famous.
Marc:Does that make any sense?
Marc:Think about all the dozens of people that you run into.
Marc:You're like, I don't know if you remember me, but I was in the group before you in Chicago, and you're like,
Marc:You know, like there's a lot of people that didn't make the cut.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's a little intense.
Guest:But maybe they will, I don't know, 10, 5, 2 years.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe if they're lucky, they'll get away from it completely.
Guest:There are a few people that are like really making, doing something that I am like, I can't believe.
Guest:How did that happen?
Guest:There's very few people.
Guest:You know that I'm like those lucky, like they're so lucky.
Marc:One thing I've learned from doing this show and also just being in the business a while is that the people that succeed, they deliver.
Marc:They work hard and they deliver.
Marc:I mean, if they don't have that capacity for work and continuing to generate, they don't last that long.
Marc:Yeah, they're sort of like, what happened to that guy?
Marc:No, he did that one season.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:No one's seen him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's okay.
Marc:So now Parks and Recreation is very funny.
Guest:I feel like I haven't been funny in this at all.
Marc:Are you supposed to be?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I don't want you to leave.
Marc:Do you want to put on a hat and dance?
Guest:It's so demeaning how you talk about what I do.
Guest:It's disgusting.
Guest:I'm sorry, okay.
Marc:Wasn't there a time where you wore hats and maybe a wig?
Guest:Yes, I'm sure we wore wigs on top of hats, I'm sure.
Marc:That was a bit.
Marc:That was probably the whole angle, yeah.
Guest:The bit was that we had hair growing out of our hats.
Guest:I'm sure that was the sketch that we did.
Guest:While you guys were wearing head skinny ties and smoking.
Marc:I'm so not trying to be condescending.
Marc:I have a lot of respect for what you do.
Guest:I know you're not.
Marc:And I like your show, and it's very funny.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:And I do have some questions about it.
Marc:That, you know, in the first season, like, it seemed that you guys were using the model of The Office, and there was sort of a sense of that, you know, camera-wise, and also, like, your role as sort of a Carell character.
Marc:But now, all of a sudden, the second season, like, you're... What makes you funny is, I think, different than the first season.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, now, as opposed to just being sort of...
Marc:kind of goofy you're like this person that's completely focused and noble in all her pursuits and the comedy comes from that part of the personality but that really wasn't the way the first season was well you know we only did six episodes okay our first season so how did that character evolve though was that you i mean did you guys decide it was kind of a group we we shot six episodes all at once and none of them had aired yet so then they started to air yeah and um
Guest:I don't know, I don't feel like she got totally different, but I think we kind of started to...
Guest:It's different with... You ever watch the show The Comeback, Lisa Kudrow?
Guest:It's a great show.
Marc:I watched a few of them.
Marc:Yeah, it's really good.
Guest:But there is a little gender politics or something.
Guest:It's a little bit harder to be... It's easier to be meaner to a character that Carell plays than it was to be mean to me.
Guest:Mean to you, yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And nobody was wanting to be mean to anybody.
Guest:They were just wanting to be funny.
Guest:But it was reading sometimes like I was a bit of a punching bag.
Guest:And I think everyone just kind of self-corrected on a little bit.
Guest:But it was small changes.
Guest:We never had a moment where we were like, this has to.
Guest:When you bring up season one, I get the sweats because I think about how scared I was to be compared to him in any way.
Guest:And we were just totally compared to them in the office in every way.
Guest:And it was like, she's not as funny.
Guest:She's...
Marc:But it's sort of the same machine, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was Greg Daniels and Mike Schur.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, again, it was... But you're just as funny as Steve Carell.
Marc:You're just your own thing.
Guest:I'm not as funny as Steve Carell.
Guest:No, that guy is so funny.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I got to say.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Again, he was the senior when I was a freshman.
Guest:But...
Guest:But anyway, yes.
Guest:So we switched, we tinkered with it a little bit in season two, I think.
Guest:And also I think just the cast, like everybody started to actually know the characters.
Marc:But also there's this, like the whole, you know, playing earnestness.
Marc:Because I think that's, you know, Steve does that too.
Marc:I mean that, like, you know, he's playing it very, he's very earnest about who he is.
Marc:And I think that the more you elevate that, the more comedy comes out of it.
Marc:Are you like, do you make those kind of decisions?
Guest:Well, I liked the fact that we got to play real moments.
Guest:There's not a lot of cool police on that show.
Guest:There's not a lot of... People aren't afraid of genuine moments, which I was excited to do because coming from sketch, it was so temporary and disposable.
Marc:So you're letting emotions sit there.
Marc:Acting.
Guest:Just acting.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's what it's called.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:but it's true but it was like oh that's what it is where you get to just play the moments in between you don't have to stress about um filling in well there was that arc with louis that was some of that was pretty great he was so great yeah and louis is a great actor well yeah he knows how to sit there you know kind of like there's something about louis not talking that's very awkward and like he'll just amplify the awkwardness of any situation and that makes it really funny
Guest:And he played a cop and he loved being in the uniform.
Guest:He loved it.
Guest:He wore it all day long.
Guest:And it looked so natural on him.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like he really looks like a cop.
Guest:And he really liked it.
Guest:He liked everything about it.
Guest:And I think he enjoyed it.
Guest:But he was doing his show at the time and it was nice enough to come do it.
Guest:But I always...
Guest:I felt like I would have chemistry with Louie.
Guest:I always liked Louie.
Guest:I mean, I think he's amazing.
Guest:But I always liked him.
Guest:I liked him offstage a lot too.
Marc:He's very thoughtful, kind of intense.
Guest:I think he's comfortable around women.
Marc:Well, he grew up with a lot of sisters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so that helps.
Guest:Yeah, I always felt very, like, comfortable around him.
Marc:He was the only man in his house.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, I think he's got two sisters and his mother.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And he was the guy.
Guest:Some guys are like that where you can see where they're like, you're okay.
Guest:And then, but with men, it's a little trickier.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if Louis is like that, but I always felt, like, very comfortable around Louis.
Yeah.
Marc:Right, what do you mean with men looking at it the same way, like women comfortable around men?
Guest:Well, I guess this is just human nature, but you know how you meet some women and you can tell that they really identify with guys and they are just trickier with other women?
Guest:Sometimes the version of that for guys is like, yes, mothers and sisters and like, okay, I'm going to at the worst be patronizing to you.
Guest:At the best be very tender and connected to you.
Guest:But when a guy comes around, it's going to get tricky.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, I do.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:No, I do.
Guest:I'm not classifying Louie in that category.
Guest:I'm just saying that.
Guest:I always felt very comfortable with him, so I thought we would work well together.
Marc:And you did.
Marc:It was good.
Guest:The first movie I ever did, he did a short film, and I was woman sprayed with hose was the name of my character.
Guest:In his movie?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I wonder which movie was it?
Guest:It was called maybe Tomorrow Night.
Marc:Tomorrow Night.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I think I didn't get to be in that movie.
Guest:Did you do any of his movies?
Marc:I got cut out of two of them.
Guest:I listened to your, you guys' interview, it was awesome.
Marc:Yeah, Louis does this thing where he's, he had me one time, he had to, for Tomorrow Night, was it Tomorrow Night?
Marc:That was the one with Chuck Squire, the photographer one.
Marc:No, I did a scene in another one, Caesar Salad.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:OK.
Marc:Where he literally got me out at like seven or eight in the morning and we went to Long Beach or whatever the beach was down in Brooklyn.
Marc:And it was freezing.
Marc:And he had me wear this weird suede Indian shirt that I had.
Marc:And then he put a necklace of small tied boxes around my neck.
Marc:And he he wanted me to go in the water.
Marc:and i did that i went into the water and uh and then there was some other scene i think the scene was me holding a megaphone directing the water directing the waves like all right bring it in all right go on out and then i go into the water and this took all day and i think i got sick from it and he cut it out he's like the thing about louis is like he said that didn't fit in the movie i'm like how do you decide
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like what fits in your movies?
Marc:How did that?
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:And like sometimes I just think he had me do it because he could do it.
Guest:Yeah, there is no film in the camera.
Marc:Anything.
Marc:Yeah, it's just like I can make Mark do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you get along with everybody over there.
Guest:Yeah, I love everybody over there.
Guest:They're really great.
Guest:I knew a lot of people before Aziz.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, Aziz I'm talking about right now.
Guest:Yeah, good.
Guest:Aziz, and I knew, thank God.
Guest:I knew Aziz is working with a huge fan in Aubrey Plaza.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I knew from UCB, she's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, Adam Scott, who's on the show, I was a huge fan of his work.
Guest:And Nick Offerman, I knew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was a big fan, but Pratt, Chris Pratt was one of those times where he auditioned, and I was sitting in on the auditions, and he just got it.
Guest:And I learned a lot from sitting in on those auditions about how badly I had auditioned.
Guest:All I thought about, if it makes actors feel any better, when you're auditioning in front of another actor, at least for me, all I did was think about how badly I had auditioned other times at home.
Guest:Because I used to do this thing where I would just under-prepare because I didn't want to get caught caring or trying.
Guest:So I would have horrible auditions where I'd not know my lines and be sweaty.
Guest:I remember auditioning for a Coen Brothers movie, and I was so nervous that I just didn't prepare.
Guest:So I just went in there like I was a hot shit.
Guest:No choices, no nothing.
Guest:No, I just went in there like, guys.
Guest:It's me, it's Amy.
Guest:Just like that thing, look, I'm not going to be...
Guest:stupid and like try like give it to me or not like and they were like get out of here like who are you and leave and I remember thinking oh that's bad so but to watch people who make definitive choices yeah and Pratt came in he was just a guy who's just so funny yeah and super he just you just don't want to feel nervous
Marc:I said that the other night.
Marc:I said, that guy's so fucking funny.
Marc:He's another guy with his own time zone.
Marc:Even when he watched it without sound, I was on a plane.
Marc:This is the other day.
Marc:I'm sitting next to a dude and he's watching it on the screen.
Marc:You just watch him and he's out there.
Guest:He's very natural.
Guest:There's never anything fake.
Guest:He's a good actor.
Marc:Where'd he come from?
Marc:He's just an actor guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He has a crazy story.
Guest:You should talk to, he should tell it, but he was like living in Hawaii, selling knives door to door, and then he met Ray Dong.
Guest:Ray Dong Chong.
Guest:She was like, you should take an acting class, and then he went to LA, like one of those.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Mm-hmm, and all of a sudden, he's like on Everwood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like one of those.
Guest:Yeah, one of those great.
Guest:Which is that bat path I never did.
Guest:Like I never took acting classes and then moved to LA.
Guest:I never did pilot season and all that stuff.
Marc:But how is that, but it's like what you did in a sense, you're constantly working with other people to get laughs.
Marc:I guess the difference is like what you're saying is that you're acting, you're not trying to get that laugh.
Guest:on a good day yeah i mean i wish i could say that happens all the time but on a good day but most times you know no like most times i just hate the sound of my own voice coming in really yeah of course i mean i you know i feel like i don't know i feel like doesn't everyone just feel like a fraud
Marc:Yeah, I used to.
Guest:Like, a measure of success, it doesn't go away.
Guest:It is not like you're like, you know what?
Guest:I got it now.
Guest:Like, they're right and I'm right.
Marc:But you know you can be fucking funny.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:But you still like.
Marc:I mean, you've done big things.
Marc:I can't, like, when I think about, like, you know, appearing even as a presenter on a Grammy's show.
Marc:or even being on snl that like i would i would make myself crazy yeah before i got on that stage i mean you've at least got that that do you i mean you're not the kind of person like when you're on snl sitting backstage going oh god i can't i mean of course the whole time i was like this is terrible this is bad i'm not funny this isn't good really yes that's fucking horrible
Guest:But presenting it like a big thing, the one thing, and you would feel this way too, is you look around and there's famous people and then there's funny people.
Guest:And you find the funny people and you're like, I just want to make that person laugh.
Guest:You don't care about the other person.
Guest:And they don't care about you.
Guest:They don't.
Guest:You're just a puppet.
Guest:They think what you do is just adorable.
Marc:I'm condescending.
Marc:So how is it like being married to another clown?
Guest:It's good.
Marc:It's... Because he's really funny.
Guest:He's so funny.
Marc:How'd you guys meet?
Guest:We met... We were... I was actually on a date with a friend of his.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we were kind of...
Guest:you know, not really, it wasn't really working.
Guest:And I met him and I just remember thinking like, that guy is, I just, he was really holding court.
Guest:And you know, he had, he was newly sober, divorced, and I was like, he just felt like a man.
Guest:He was broken and perfect.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:He was broken down and like, you know.
Marc:Pure.
Marc:Swooped in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you get along good?
Marc:Yeah, we get along great.
Marc:Was there any sense of competition ever?
Guest:No, but it is tough to like... Like during fights?
Marc:There's never like, you're the one with the show.
Guest:No, but it is hard to like... I think about how it must be nice for like... There's some of the comedy guys that have wives that... I feel sometimes I feel bad that he doesn't...
Guest:necessarily get one of those wives that like just you know you're a genius you're crazy yeah yeah and then also it's like i'll be home like i'm here like i'm i'll take the kids you go be a movie star yeah like he doesn't get that no um what does he get he gets what does he get
Guest:That's a good question.
Marc:What, it's my turn?
Guest:It's like a lot of scheduling.
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:That's the only time it gets tricky when it's like, I have to do this, I have to do this.
Guest:Which one's more important?
Marc:So you just leave the kids.
Guest:Both ways the kids suffer.
Marc:Well, as long as you know that.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:This is about mommy and daddy.
Marc:Either way, it's about mommy and daddy.
Marc:You guys are gonna have to fend for yourselves.
Guest:He had a different, very different, he talks about how he wonders how his path would have been different if he kind of came through the improv.
Guest:Where did he come through?
Guest:He did Stella Adler.
Guest:Oh, real acting.
Guest:Yeah, acting, acting.
Guest:And then moved to New York when he was like 19 from Canada and was like auditioning for stuff and did like 12 pilots and, you know, always out here doing stuff.
Guest:And he like really worked hard.
Marc:It took him a while, right?
Marc:Like he hammered away.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like he, when we got married, I started like a week later, I started SNL and he started Arrested Development.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And, you know,
Guest:11 years ago so that was that was his you know he we were both late bloomers yeah but you did well that's good yeah because you were ready i guess right sure i don't know now okay like before we go like some lauren michaels wisdom yeah any good stories well what is it i know you've told this story but just one i've only met him once i know and he just was
Guest:You hated it.
Marc:No, I didn't hate it.
Marc:I think he really just wanted to teach me a lesson.
Guest:But you were close to doing Update, right?
Marc:Well, I mean, that was the talk.
Marc:But then I'd heard other versions.
Marc:He was just using me to pressure Norm or whatever.
Marc:But he made me jump through a lot of hoops.
Marc:And it was all very exciting.
Marc:But I'd see him as I get older.
Marc:You know, like I read that book about, you know, the war for late night about the Conan O'Brien thing.
Marc:And he really is, you know, he appears in there occasionally and is very Buddha-like.
Marc:You know, like he's very set.
Marc:He's Lorne Michaels, but he seemed more human to me in that book.
Guest:I see it.
Guest:I have a very human relationship with him, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His relationship, I always had a theory that
Guest:he brought out a lot of daddy issues in people.
Guest:For everybody.
Guest:For everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the way you kind of reacted to him, not always, but was sometimes indicative of how you had to deal with your own father.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because there would be, I would see things that to me in, you know, subjectively a moment that I didn't, that didn't trigger me in the same way I saw it trigger other people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he is a king of the kingdom.
Guest:You know, that is a kingdom of which he is king.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that doesn't really happen very much anymore, where you get to see a king in his kingdom.
Marc:Talking to his subjects.
Guest:Talking to his subjects, yeah.
Marc:And he likes it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I liked it, too.
Guest:I liked it.
Marc:The attention?
Guest:I liked the attention.
Guest:And I also just found him to be very fair at the end of the day.
Marc:In the sense of what?
Guest:I thought he was fair...
Guest:And again, this is my experience.
Guest:I know everyone's had many different experiences, but I found him very fair in his creative decisions.
Guest:I always thought he was funny and smart and picked things that were funny and smart.
Guest:He fought for that.
Guest:I think he's a very loyal person.
Marc:To people he liked.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, Hater told the story that will have aired already after this, by the time we put this up about how they were doing this sketch that was kind of weird.
Marc:And it was his first big sketch.
Marc:And, you know, and it was he was this he played Vincent Price.
Marc:And I can't remember what the sketch was.
Marc:But but Hater was nervous going in to do his Vincent Price.
Marc:And apparently right before he went on, Lauren said, why now?
Marc:Which is sort of brilliant, but completely undermining.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:What a terrible thing to hear, right?
Marc:It kind of fucked with him completely.
Marc:But I think that his intuition must be pretty amazing.
Marc:I mean, were there moments where he would direct you or make suggestions and it would just completely make you insecure?
Guest:Not insecure, but there would be times where, like, I can remember one time we were doing a bit, you know, he was very helpful to me when I started doing Update because I was very nervous because I had never done stand-up.
Guest:And I hadn't, I didn't have, I was very, very bad the first couple years of Update when I was doing a teen.
Guest:I was all over the place.
Guest:I didn't know how to deliver a joke.
Guest:I didn't know how to deliver it into a camera.
Guest:I just didn't know how to do it.
Marc:Because your instincts were more physical?
Guest:Yeah, I was just like, everything was imprecise and character-y, and I was just trying to float on my, hoping my enthusiasm and charm would cover the fact that I was blowing the punchline every time.
Guest:And he would talk about how you have to kind of create a character in a way on Update.
Guest:Even though you say your name, you're kind of like this character.
Guest:And so from the beginning when I was doing, Tina was like the serious one.
Guest:And I was like the, you know.
Guest:And I remember a moment where
Guest:we were like in his office and we were going over a bit and Mick Jagger was going to be on for something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was promoting something or maybe they were the musical guests and he was pitching an idea about doing something with him and he was and it was something came about like some idea like that Mick proposed a three way or something.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:I forget what it was.
Guest:With you and Tina.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like Tina was like you know Tina would be like no and I would be into it and I remember thinking and I was like you know that
Guest:I would never fuck old Mick Jagger.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:It was a disconnect a little bit.
Guest:You said that to Lauren?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at the time, I remember like, oh, this might be kind of personally insulting.
Guest:But it was that thing of like, oh, that's one thing that...
Guest:we disconnected.
Guest:I was like, oh, I'm not, I, Amy Poehler, I'm not attracted to now Mick Jagger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, the idea of that still, him still being sexy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It wasn't gonna fly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what did Lauren say?
Guest:He didn't care.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:My experience with him was, I felt like I could be very honest with him.
Guest:And I think he felt like he could depend on me.
Guest:And I liked that feeling.
Guest:I feel like, I think when there were like, in that show, when you have those super scary times and if you do it right, you pull it through, then suddenly you get more responsibility and you feel like a good soldier.
Guest:And I liked that feeling.
Marc:What's a super scary time?
Guest:live, someone comes up to you and says, you know, like, okay, this scene's been cut, we only have 15 seconds, so you need to say this now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, you know, or, you know, I remember, like, Britney Spears was the host, and suddenly, like, two minutes, three minutes before air, she didn't want to do this sketch, she just freaked out.
Guest:Freaked out, yeah.
Guest:And it's like, you're doing it now.
Guest:And you're like, okay.
Guest:And you realize you didn't pay attention to it.
Guest:You didn't really listen to it and read through.
Guest:And you're on skis with Dan Aykroyd.
Guest:And you're pretending to ski down a hill.
Guest:And you're like, hey.
Guest:And you're just like sweating.
Marc:And you're reading cue cards.
Guest:Yeah, and you're reading cue cards of a scene that you didn't even pay attention to it.
Guest:It was blocking.
Guest:And if you pull that off, you know, you feel like a million bucks.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But Lauren notices.
Guest:And Lauren notices.
Guest:And then you feel like, and I loved that, like that feeling of,
Guest:it's the closest thing you have to feeling like an athlete.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Like, it's the closest thing I'll ever feel.
Guest:I thought you were going to say, like, that Lauren likes... Oh, but yeah, but I didn't care.
Guest:People that cared a lot about his approval never got it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:I mean... Yeah, that makes sense.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:There were people that were like, he never told me I did a good job.
Guest:And I remember thinking, like, well, I don't... Like, who tells... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm over-talking, but I guess...
Marc:No, but that plays into that whole idea that if he's very sensitive to his place in that world, which he is, it's his world, and that there are these daddy issues to resolve, I think that what you're saying is that by being that character, this sort of stern, but not emotionally invested, but very judgmental, that people will strive to seek that approval, but it's never gonna come in that way.
Marc:It's never gonna come.
Marc:It's almost like he's teaching you how to parent yourself.
Guest:Yes, that's exactly right.
Guest:It was like, don't expect me to tell you what was good and don't expect me to make you feel better when it was bad and we'll be fine.
Guest:I mean, he's notorious for not hiring or firing anybody in person.
Guest:He doesn't tell you you're hired and he doesn't tell you you're fired.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:No, it makes sense.
Guest:A lot of people don't like to say you're fired in person.
Guest:But it's kind of weird that he doesn't give himself the pleasure of saying you're hired too.
Guest:But you don't get, you know, everything is like sideways.
Guest:And you either take it personally or you don't.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you talk to him now?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, you do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we're friends.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like he'll call and like, hello.
Guest:He's like, hello.
Guest:Hello.
Guest:He's like, are you watching Jersey Shore?
Guest:I love this season.
Guest:I think that Snooki's really made a change.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, he doesn't.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Marc:I wanted that to be true.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:But, I mean, I still like to talk.
Guest:I think he gives good advice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Long-winded advice, but good advice.
Guest:Like he's the kind of guy, if you say, should I move...
Guest:you know should i buy a house yeah he's had this crazy life i don't know i like his advice but so does he do you does he give you advice about um parks and rec has he yes oh yeah in terms of your performance in general i don't think he really watches it but you know like what did he say you know that kind of thing that like um
Guest:like Buddha-like people say, which is not really anything, but they end up saying nothing, and you're like, yes, that's it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But that thing of like, at the end of the day, it's you, and that's what you need to remember.
Guest:It's you there, and you're doing your thing, and there is where you're supposed to be.
Guest:And you're like, yes.
Guest:And then you walk in like, wait a minute, what the fuck are you talking about?
Marc:I think it's just an approval thing in a way.
Guest:I think it is.
Guest:And also, he's had to... I have to say, having had the experience of up close at SNL, there's so many fires to put out and there's so many personalities and people with real... There's the neuroses of the host and there's the cast and everybody...
Guest:He doesn't always get it right, but the history of personalities that he's had to manage is really, really interesting.
Guest:And I think he's really good at getting what he wants.
Guest:It's fascinating to watch when someone's like, I'm not going to do that sketch.
Guest:He's like, no, I know, you're not.
Guest:And when you do it, it will be fine.
Guest:And I'm just like, no, I know, but I'm not going to do it.
Guest:And he's like, you're not doing it, nor should you.
Guest:But I think when you find yourself doing it, you're going to end up doing it.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:He's incredibly persuasive and getting people to do what he wants.
Marc:It's so amazing.
Marc:I think his sensitivity to the type of insecurity and insanity that performances are, I mean, especially comedic performers, like for him to sort of reign over that range of personalities that he has, which are performers, and to know how to sort of work them, it's not...
Marc:I see how it could be misinterpreted as manipulative or weird or evil in a way, but he knows what he's doing.
Marc:I mean, no one has had to deal with such a history of insanity as that guy.
Guest:And it is a family.
Guest:It feels like it.
Guest:Some people don't feel like they ever belonged in it.
Guest:Did they stay in it, though?
Marc:I mean, I would think that the people that stayed the longest must have felt like they belonged in it.
Guest:Yeah, like, you know, when I talk to other people, their experience, and also the show has had such different... Do you guys have reunions?
Guest:Well, it's weird, though.
Guest:When you meet a person who is on SNL, that's all we talk about.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I just saw Kevin Nealon the other day.
Guest:That's all we talk about.
Guest:It's like a weird... It's a very unique experience.
Marc:It's like astronauts.
Marc:There's not that many of them.
Marc:That's someone's joke.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:Or is it a joke?
Marc:It's just a reality.
Marc:It's a small club.
Guest:But I can see if you had a brief meeting with him and you felt like perhaps you were being used as a pawn, you were probably right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I didn't think that till afterwards, but I do think I was being because someone told me that.
Marc:But I do think I was being schooled somehow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that, you know, that whatever he was looking for, that whatever shot I had at it when he did that sort of probe of me.
Marc:He didn't see it.
Marc:And I felt that.
Marc:He was like, I need to look in your eyes for a minute.
Marc:So I'm doing that thing.
Marc:And I think that he just didn't see what he was looking for.
Guest:I bet he had made his decision before your meeting.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Then why'd he make me wait three hours?
Guest:Yeah, that's a weird, like old school, like Hollywood thing that's still stuck around.
Marc:Yeah, I was waiting in that dressing room for like two hours by myself and then Tracy Morgan showed up.
Marc:And his hair, all I remember about Tracy is that his afro was perfect.
Yes.
Guest:What makes a perfect afro?
Guest:It's symmetry?
Marc:It was shiny.
Marc:He was ready.
Guest:Was he auditioning then?
Guest:Or was he on the show?
Marc:No, that was before.
Marc:These were the meetings to get cast.
Marc:He made it to the waiting room at Lorne Michaels' office.
Guest:Well, there's many people, maybe some that were in this podcast, who have taken long walks on the beach with Lorne and not been cast in the show.
Marc:Oh, no, no.
Marc:I haven't talked to anybody that's had that experience.
Marc:Who have I really had on here from SNL?
Marc:Just Janine and... And Bill.
Marc:Well, Hater was on a live one, and Odenkirk was there.
Marc:He wrote there.
Guest:Janine's experience was way different.
Marc:Mulaney I've had on.
Marc:He seems pretty shiny.
Marc:He seems very efficient.
Marc:He seems like he's going to win.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's exactly, I would exactly say that.
Guest:He's really smart.
Guest:And, and, and also like once you become useful to that show, you're very, you have a lot of power.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's, he is very smart.
Marc:And it's like, as soon as he finds his, his voice as a performer, it's going to be pretty, pretty devastating.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In a good way.
Guest:And it's like, it's like an emergency room there.
Guest:So if you do your job well, like you will always, you know, you like yours, you know, sketches, crying and bleeding.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I remember one time doing like an Ellen show or something, and they were doing it live.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was in New York or something, and there was like a three-minute commercial break, and they were moving a couch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was so much yelling.
Guest:And like, look out, we're coming through, whatever.
Guest:And it just was like, at SNL, nobody yells, nobody panics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's really cool to watch because it's like an emergency room.
Guest:Nobody goes like, we're never going to make it.
Guest:We can't do this.
Marc:It's a ship flying around.
Marc:Yeah, but very quietly.
Guest:Everyone's really good at their job.
Marc:And there's a set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's just not... The histrionics aren't allowed.
Guest:And they kind of aren't allowed in the cast, too.
Guest:So you kind of don't...
Marc:No room for drama queens or bitching.
Guest:Well, there's been many, and there's plenty of room.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I like that you used the word histrionics appropriately.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I fucked that one up a couple times.
Guest:You're using some big words with Showalter.
Guest:What was the one?
Marc:Oh, semiotics.
Marc:Yeah, but I had to pull that out.
Marc:I was very close to going to the bookshelf with that interview.
Marc:Well, you explained this to me.
Marc:That became some sort of, you know, it was so sad because we're both clearly not intellectuals.
Marc:But, you know, at some point we really wanted to be.
Marc:So it was just this weird pseudo-intellectual cockfight about something neither one of us really understood.
Guest:It sounded very smart.
Guest:Like, the good news is that most people didn't know if you were right or wrong.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Good.
Marc:And most people had never even heard those concepts.
Marc:It was like a very small group of people that, you know, did a second year of film studies and knew what we were talking about.
Guest:all right well i think we've had a good conversation okay what do you do are you going to walk away from this feeling weird and bad yeah but you are only because i love this podcast so much and i i do you want to cry is there something yeah i want to put on a weird hat no i just want to sing a weird sketchy song there's a pink hard hat there is you know i want to point out for the listeners there's some there's some crazy hats there's several there's a there's what looks like almost like a
Guest:That's a gardener hat.
Guest:Oh, it's a gardener hat.
Guest:I was going to say like a white guy on vacation.
Marc:Like that would be a hat you would wear if you were like... No, that was something that was bought at some point to work in the garden.
Marc:The pink hard hat was a gift because I did a Uline thing.
Marc:The Santa hat, I don't know.
Marc:Beneath the Santa hat is a devil's ears.
Marc:There's a devil's hood.
Marc:It's a cute devil's hood.
Marc:And over there, that is an original swag hat from the first season of Dr. Katz.
Guest:I could do 45 minutes of material with those five hats.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Let me get my flip can.
Guest:I will give you two one-hour plays based on those five hats.
Marc:Called hats.
Guest:And all I need is a fake mustache and a bucket full of fake blood.
Marc:And we're good.
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:Thanks, Amy.
Marc:Thanks, Mark.
Marc:Okay, that's our show.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed it.
Marc:I love talking to Amy Poehler.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:I have no idea the impact I have on people for better or for worse.
Marc:Well, I usually know when it's bad, but I don't know when it's good.
Marc:If you need anything WTF related, go to the brand new...
Marc:BeautifulWTFPod.com.
Marc:Get on the mailing list, buy a t-shirt, buy a mug.
Marc:Enjoy some of the posts there, some of the videos.
Marc:Go ahead and leave comments.
Marc:I'd like to get that thing going.
Marc:I'd like to make it a living, breathing site.
Marc:I'm trying to keep shit updated there, but I've been busy.
Marc:Please come to Denver, the Comedy Works, June 16th through 19th.
Marc:Or come to Edmonton.
Marc:Oh, God, please come to the mall.
Marc:To the Comic Strip, June 23rd through 26th.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:You can get that at WTFPod.com or JustCoffee.coop.com, PunchlineMagazine.com, of course.
Marc:And if you are into apps, we've got the WTF app for the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Droid.
Marc:You can go to iTunes and search WTF Premium.
Marc:We just put a bunch of the old episodes up there, some of the classics.
Marc:Patrice O'Neill, Zach Galifianakis, Atal is up there, Norton, Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, Luis Seca, Judd Apatow.
Marc:We're going to be slowly putting more of those up as time goes on.
Marc:And you can also get them at WTFPodShop.com.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:What a plug fest.
Marc:What a plug fest.
Marc:Did I forget anything?
Marc:Is it anybody's birthday?
Marc:Is there anything I need to do?
Marc:Oh, congratulations, Rachel and Jason.
Marc:Thank you for inviting me to your wedding in Oklahoma.
Marc:I hope it went well.
Marc:Good luck with everything.
Marc:And I hope you've crossed the poo barrier because it's all, it's even, it's deeper love from there.
Marc:Once you get that out of the way, who knows what the possibilities of your intimacy will hold.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:I gotta go.
Marc:I gotta go.