Episode 175 - Steve Byrne
Guest:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucksikins?
Marc:Whatever you want to call yourself.
Marc:I am Mark Marin.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you, as always, for listening to my show.
Marc:I'm a little fucked.
Marc:I'm a little crazy.
Marc:I'm a little tired.
Marc:I'm getting up early to make my girlfriend coffee before she goes to work because I'm so happy she has a job.
Marc:And then I've set that standard where I'm like, I'll get up with you.
Marc:Let me make you a nice mocha.
Marc:You know, have a good day at work.
Marc:And then I'm fucked the whole day.
Marc:And I'm in that one.
Marc:I'm just I'd rather do anything other than do anything.
Marc:You know, that feeling paralysis, exhausted, overwhelmed.
Marc:Oh, by the way, Steve Byrne, great comic on the show today.
Marc:with some fairly provocative information in relation to something we've already talked about on this show.
Marc:I'll tell you about that in just a second.
Marc:But look forward to it.
Marc:Probably going to cause some trouble.
Marc:But I think it's a good show.
Marc:He's an interesting guy.
Marc:Talk a lot about sort of biracial comedy and a little bit of race and then some other stuff.
Marc:I'll tell you about that in a minute.
Marc:But what the fuck am I going to do?
Marc:All right, I'm overwhelmed.
Marc:I don't know who you are or what your life looks like, but I don't have any real discipline, number one.
Marc:Well, obviously I do.
Marc:I do the show for you guys.
Marc:Can you just turn that off, Mark?
Marc:Yes, Mark, I will.
Marc:How long is it going to take for you to get to remember to turn your fucking cell phone off before you go on a show?
Marc:Well, you know, I'm busy thinking about what I'm going to say as I make coffee and do anything other than do anything that I need to do to just prepare.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So the phone's fucking off.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:We're OK.
Marc:But I'm not okay because I don't have any structure.
Marc:Yeah, I'm doing this show for you twice a week.
Marc:I'm going out on the road, but everything else is a disaster, and I never know how to end a workday.
Marc:I'm constantly working or tweeting or Facebooking or reaching out to possible guests or recording interviews or doing whatever I need to do.
Marc:But then there's the other stuff.
Marc:There's a second layer.
Marc:What about my house?
Marc:Is it falling apart?
Marc:Is that termites?
Marc:Are those termites going to eat my house?
Marc:How old is that termite damage?
Marc:Oh, my God, I need to build a new room on this thing because the walls are falling in.
Marc:What about the yard?
Marc:What about my car?
Marc:How come the lights on?
Marc:How come the maintenance lights on?
Marc:How are you going to handle your girlfriend now that you guys are back together and you can't just seem to take any criticism without taking it as an insult and then reacting like a fucking impetuous child?
Marc:All these things are one big thing that are weighing down on me.
Marc:I can't compartmentalize.
Marc:I just need to do this.
Marc:All I'm doing right now is talking on the mic.
Marc:All right, look, last night she felt unappreciated.
Marc:That's not unusual in relationships.
Marc:And, of course, I took it as her saying, you know, you're an asshole.
Marc:She said, why can't you be, you know, I did this.
Marc:I helped you out.
Marc:I helped you with the garbage.
Marc:I helped you with the dishes.
Marc:I had a busy day.
Marc:You know, instead of just expecting these things or feeling like you're entitled to them, why can't you just thank me and be appreciative?
Marc:And so I took that as you're a fucking asshole.
Marc:So, of course, I responded appropriately to what I thought she was saying, which was like, you know, fuck that.
Marc:You know, what are you, some sort of hero?
Marc:You know, I'm working, too.
Marc:It was ridiculous.
Marc:I'm a ridiculous fool.
Marc:And it goes back to all of that, to the authority thing, to why I'm a comic.
Marc:Anybody tells me what to do.
Marc:I'm like, fuck you.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:Even if it's the right thing.
Marc:Didn't I turn that off?
Marc:What do I got to do with this phone?
Marc:How can I not?
Marc:That wasn't it.
Marc:Where did that come from?
Marc:Am I hearing things?
Marc:Did my brain just have an aural hallucination of my phone ringing because I was talking about something that may be touchy to me?
Marc:But I just have this immediate... I am an immediate fuck you guy if I just allow my wiring to function the way it was designed.
Marc:Anything you tell me, I'm like, you know, fuck you.
Marc:Don't fucking tell me.
Marc:It doesn't work.
Marc:I mean, even... Look at this.
Marc:I get this... I got an email.
Marc:Not an email.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Snail mail.
Marc:Actual letter in my mailbox from the Department of Motor Vehicles.
Marc:I've gotten a couple tickets lately.
Marc:I have a problem with stop signs.
Marc:Like, I don't stop at the stop sign.
Marc:I sort of roll into the intersection to look both ways.
Marc:That's my style.
Marc:It's a stylistic decision.
Marc:And I ran a red light, and they got me on camera.
Marc:Boy, what a ridiculous picture that is.
Marc:Because they always take that picture.
Marc:It's always you frozen in that moment where you know you're fucked.
Marc:That look on your face, I'm leaning forward as if that my leaning forward would make my car push past the camera point.
Marc:But there I am just with that.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:Come on, face.
Marc:Didn't work.
Marc:Got the ticket.
Marc:Expensive.
Marc:$480.
Marc:So now I got these two tickets sitting on my record, the drifting through a stop sign, where the cop wrongly accused me of stopping because I saw him.
Marc:I didn't see him.
Marc:That's my style.
Marc:It's a stylistic decision is to let the nose go out a little bit so I can look both ways effectively.
Marc:See, I'm actually doing a better job at a stop sign.
Marc:And they accused me of stopping.
Marc:Like I would just run a stop sign.
Marc:Fuck them.
Marc:Fuck that.
Marc:The red light.
Marc:I made it.
Marc:You know, it was enough time.
Marc:Why does it keep making the noise?
Marc:I turned it off.
Marc:The fucking ringer is on silent and it's still making the noise.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:So I made the light.
Marc:You know, this totalitarian force of cameras in our life is taking out all the excitement, all the risk, all the gamble.
Marc:So now you see my disposition.
Marc:Basically what I'm saying is I got caught twice.
Marc:So I get this letter on stationary, Department of Motor Vehicles, Dear California Driver, and it's addressed to me,
Marc:Drivers with crashes and traffic convictions on their records are at a greater risk of causing future crashes.
Marc:Your recent record of bad driving, see below in parentheses, places you at increased risk of causing crashes, injury and death.
Marc:We do not want you to suffer those consequences and want to help you avoid them.
Marc:We understand that you may believe you are a good driver, and yet your driving record is much worse than the average California driver.
Marc:While you may be a good and safe driver most of the time, your record reflects at least momentary lapses in driving judgment.
Marc:At highway speeds, a moment of carelessness can become a tragedy.
Marc:Good, caring people who make careless decisions while driving can cause injury or death.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:Does this come from the DMV guilt department?
Marc:I've never seen a letter like this.
Marc:It's not even giving me an option.
Marc:Are they offering me a class?
Marc:Let's go on.
Marc:In our effort to urge you to drive safer, we are offering you a choice.
Marc:Not a class.
Marc:There's no barter here.
Marc:What's the choice, DMV guilt department?
Marc:You can choose to prevent further action from DMV by avoiding additional traffic convictions and by not causing any crashes.
Marc:Oh, let me make note of that.
Marc:Don't cause crashes today.
Marc:What the fuck is this passive aggressive guilt throwing letter?
Marc:However, if you choose to continue your unsafe driving, the penalties will increase and eventually lead to probation, suspension, or revocation of your driving privilege.
Marc:All right, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I get it, Dad.
Marc:We believe you are capable of making a change to become a safer driver, but it is up to you to do so.
Marc:If you do not want to change, your driving will continue to present a risk to yourself and other road users.
Marc:If you want to change and become a safer, more responsible driver, you can.
Marc:We hope that you will decide to change, but the choice is yours.
Marc:Now, I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:I've never seen a letter like this, and my first reaction was, fuck you.
Marc:Who the fuck are you to tell me that I can't make stylistic decisions around how I handle a stop sign or whether or not I can make it through a red light?
Marc:I made it.
Marc:I made it.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:But then as a grown up, I kind of think like, all right, I get it.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:And quite honestly, it has made me more aware because, you know, and it's about you don't want to lose your license.
Marc:You want to get more points.
Marc:I want to pay more money.
Marc:Unfortunately, killing myself or others is way down on that list.
Marc:So that that didn't work.
Marc:But I'm aware of it.
Marc:But my first response was, you know, fuck you.
Marc:But with this particular thing, where does that get me?
Marc:No, you know what?
Marc:Despite you, I'm going to crash.
Marc:I'm going to crash.
Marc:I'm going to hurt myself and others.
Marc:That's what I'm going to do.
Marc:Tell me what to do, you fucks.
Marc:So obviously I'm transferring stuff and I just have to...
Marc:I gotta apologize to my girlfriend and I guess appreciate her more and stop at stop signs and not try to make the yellow.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:What happened to freedom?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Jesus.
Marc:So anyway, on the show today, Steve Byrne.
Marc:Now, you might not remember this, but we mentioned Steve Byrne.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:We mentioned... Well, he came up in a conversation that I had with Dane Cook, who was on WTF.
Marc:And what I'd like to do now is just play...
Marc:Dane Cook talking about this situation.
Marc:And by the way, you can get the Dane Cook episode at iTunes if you do a search on WTF Premium or you can go to WTFPodShop.com.
Marc:But this is Dane Cook talking about Steve Byrne.
Marc:And then we'll talk to Steve.
Marc:I heard that you once accused someone of stealing your essence.
Guest:Yeah, Steve Byrne.
Guest:Now, what does that mean exactly?
Guest:Steve Byrne.
Guest:I understand it, actually.
Guest:It's so funny because this is the only time I have ever called somebody or said I need to talk to you about something is Steve Byrne, who I think is a very talented guy.
Guest:But essence is an interesting word.
Guest:It is an interesting word.
Guest:And when we had that conversation, which I thought was a private conversation, which I thought was just Steve and I, I remember I called Steve.
Guest:I said, listen, can we – because a bunch of people around L.A.
Guest:were saying, wow, man, he's like – he's doing you.
Guest:It's like watching you, the cadence, the tempo, the little tricks and stuff that we all have, the little ums or the – whatever it is that you put together to make your –
Guest:you know your your rhythms uh-huh so and then just general like pov stuff just the way he was you know i i think i have a kind of a unique perspective on the way i approach a joke or a story or routine and so i called him i said you know will you come over and you know talk to me about this i remember we came over essence
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:That's not the way the conversation went.
Guest:All right, all right.
Guest:One piece of maybe a two-hour conversation that I had with him.
Guest:And the thing that was strange about the conversation was it was a great conversation.
Guest:It wasn't me sitting there saying, dude, you're doing this and you're taking... It was not.
Guest:We sat on my porch.
Guest:We sat on the front stoop of this building that I was living in for about two hours.
Guest:We talked about what he was doing.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Since...
Guest:i never went out and started you know blogging or or one of those people that when somebody says something about me that i know is getting around it's like i'm gonna start telling what really happened you know the same with the louis stuff not everybody knows that whole story there's more to like that back and forth than what people realize but you but he chose you both chose to keep it yeah but we sat there and we talked about it and i finally said you know and i did say to him i go steve
Guest:But I didn't go like this.
Guest:You are stealing my essence.
Guest:I probably said, you know, Steve, it's like you're not being you.
Guest:It's like you're being me.
Guest:It's like you're trying to act like me, dress like me.
Guest:And he even admitted to me at that time in his life, you know what?
Guest:I'm not where I want to be.
Guest:Even my own family's looking at me saying...
Guest:This isn't you.
Guest:You're too much like Dane.
Guest:No, not that.
Guest:No.
Guest:But just that he wasn't being Steve.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:By the end of the conversation, I remember I shook his hand.
Guest:I said, you know what, Steve?
Guest:I like you.
Guest:I think that you're really talented.
Guest:And I go, and I know that everybody goes through these times where we get a little bit lost and try to figure out what the fuck we are on stage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:i want to be a friend to you i want to like i'd rather be closer to you than feel like we're awkward and now we're going to see each other in clubs and it's weird i thought we walked away from that conversation i remember i walked into my girlfriend i go that's one of the best conversations i've ever had and comics have these conversations every night there's a comic somewhere going dude we have the same
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:You want so badly, Mark.
Guest:I like that.
Guest:I like the line.
Guest:And I know your humor, and I appreciate it, and I know that's something you want to be able to... I get it.
Guest:You want Darth Vader to be Darth Vader.
Guest:You don't want her to be Anakin.
Guest:No, I like that.
Guest:And you want me to be Darth Vader.
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:But the mask is off, and I'm letting you know that... No, I know the mask isn't completely off, but I like... But it is.
Guest:I like stealing your assets.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I like that.
Guest:And I'm glad that you...
Marc:It's poetic.
Marc:I understand it.
Marc:I call it a drive shaft.
Marc:You see, you're thinking I'm attacking you or not.
Marc:But I can tell when someone takes someone's drive shaft.
Marc:Like you said, there's a lot of people doing a tell.
Marc:There's a lot of people doing Hedberg.
Guest:There's a lot of people doing Todd Berry.
Guest:And that's what I was getting across.
Marc:I was just enjoying the poetry of it.
Guest:But I do call it a drive shaft.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:That's okay.
Guest:I can have drive shaft?
Guest:You can have Essence.
Guest:Enjoy.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I'll take drive shaft.
Marc:Or delivery system.
Marc:I like as well.
Marc:Essence is the same thing.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You like that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:We're just arguing over poetry.
Marc:Can't a guy appreciate another guy's poetry?
Marc:You can't.
Guest:I've never used that terminology except for that conversation, but yes, I can hear it.
Guest:And it became, it was so good, it had to get out.
Guest:I didn't hear it from Steve Byrne, but the idea of you saying someone's stealing your asses, it was so good, it had to be talked about.
Guest:I can understand the way when you turn it into a soundbite, it is hilarious.
Guest:And if I heard it, I'd probably fuck around with it, too.
Guest:Well, you do kind of conjure up pictures of you and wherever you are up in the hills, and you summon Steve.
Guest:It's like, you have stolen my essence.
Guest:Give it back.
Guest:All right.
Guest:If that's what you want to... If that really is what you want to believe, if that's what it conjures up, then... Here's what I picture.
Guest:I pictured you looking out of your house.
Guest:Come over to my house tonight.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Come see where I live.
Guest:Don't you have a view?
Guest:Come see that's not a lair in some, you know... But you have a view, right?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Okay, so I was picturing you looking out over Los Angeles.
Guest:At that time, I did not live there.
Guest:Oh, but you're like, you know, with your robe on going, someone has taken my essence.
Yeah.
Guest:I can feel it in the force.
Guest:That's how you picture it.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:That's what makes you happy.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I'm a jeans and t-shirt guy.
Guest:I'm not big into fucking robes and wizardry.
Guest:A dark robe.
Guest:No wizardry?
Guest:No.
Marc:See, now I give us both atomic fireballs and we can't even be on the mics yet because we're going to be beating those around our mouth.
Marc:So you ready to talk?
Marc:You want to finish your candy?
Guest:I could chuck it or whatever.
Guest:I don't care.
Marc:I'm going to put mine right there.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Guest:I'll put mine in my pocket.
Marc:They're pretty good, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:A fan gave me a bunch of atomic fireballs.
Guest:It's been like since eighth grade since I had one of these bad boys, but.
Marc:Yeah, but they're good, right?
Guest:I miss them, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So Steve Byrne is in the garage here at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:Now, I've known you for a long fucking time.
Marc:And again, I've never talked to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I always assume that, of course, I assume that you didn't like me.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You're not a completely emotional guy.
Marc:It's kind of hard to read.
Marc:Me?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just kind of show up and say hi, and then I do my stuff, and then I go back and watch History Channel or something.
Marc:Yeah, well, I guess I took that as personal.
Marc:I decided he was just showing up and saying hi and leaving because of me.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:That is true.
Marc:I knew it.
Marc:I fucking knew it.
Marc:So you just came back from Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're a real road guy.
Marc:I mean, you know, I know that more so than most, you're out there like what?
Guest:How many weeks a year?
Guest:Pretty much every week.
Guest:It's been, I mean, you know, I was in New York.
Guest:I worked every night for seven years.
Guest:I kind of looked at it as like college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Every night, five or six shows.
Guest:And now...
Guest:I started headlining.
Guest:I just want to work every week that I can.
Guest:I've maybe had three or four weeks off in like five years.
Marc:Now, how were you able to maintain relationships, family, that kind of thing?
Marc:Do you talk to your family?
Marc:Are you running away from something?
Marc:You, actually.
Marc:I knew it.
Marc:It's you.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Everything I thought was true.
Guest:No, I mean, my family's great.
Guest:I talk to them once every two or three days and I got a great girl and she's been very patient.
Guest:So I hang out Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays.
Guest:Seven years patient?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:This is like three years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Three years patient.
Guest:It's kind of hard, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not, it's not easy, but you know, it's like the hurt locker where it's like, I go home and I get to spend some time and all I think about is just, Oh, I got to work on that bit.
Guest:I got to get some chicken fingers and rip it in honey mustard.
Guest:I, I, this is not fun.
Marc:I need some bar food and to sleep in.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And wake up like, you know, five minutes before 10 so I can make my own waffle.
Guest:It's awesome when you get to go to the hotel.
Guest:Can I get a wake-up call for 3 p.m., please?
Guest:3 p.m.?
Marc:Yes, 3 p.m., please.
Marc:I've never traveled as much as I am now, and I'm finding that I don't mind it.
Marc:I mean, I don't mind being in the hotel.
Marc:It's kind of like it's quiet.
Marc:It's nice if it's not a shitty place.
Guest:After a while, you enjoy it, actually.
Guest:It's just like, oh, this is the job.
Guest:And at the end of the day, it's just like I'm making a living doing this.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:So I've never...
Marc:i've never hated and i've never not wanted to do it i just love it yeah i used to get aggravated and i used to dread it but now like uh i'm just getting to that point where i don't feel like i need to do things in the town that i go to you know when you first go on the road you're like well what is in this town i gotta go see it and now you're like i'm not fucking going anywhere yeah i was just in grand rapids i'm like well i could go to the gerald ford museum for the third time but the third time yeah i did i went twice right i got the documentary dvd that's produced in-house i'm just like i enough
Marc:Out of all the things, that would not even make my list of things to do.
Marc:There's nothing else to do in Grand Rapids.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:But I guess what also interests me about you is you do more than most for the troops, don't you?
Guest:Yeah, my brother served.
Guest:Everybody on my father's side served in the military except for me.
Guest:My brother served.
Guest:After 9-11, I was there.
Guest:My brother was there.
Guest:He was actually attending classes at the community college downtown.
Guest:And he heard the first boom.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And he ran out because all the kids are like, what the hell is going on here?
Guest:And he runs out and he sees the second plane hit and he felt the impact.
Guest:And he said the heat was so intense that he thought he was burned.
Guest:And he started running and he just ran for his life.
Guest:He didn't know what the hell was going on.
Guest:So he had some nightmares and stuff.
Guest:And about, I'd say within two to three months, he signed up for the Army.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think I was like 27, 28 at the time.
Guest:So I was like, I'm a little bit older.
Guest:I don't know if I could contribute that much.
Guest:And so he joined and then Colin Quinn went on a USO tour and was kind enough to take me.
Guest:And it was such an amazing experience that ever since then I said, as long as I can do one every year, at least once a year, I'm going to try to do one.
Marc:And where have you gone?
Guest:I've been to Iraq, Afghanistan two times or three times, Japan and Guam.
Guest:I've done some stuff in the States, too, going around.
Marc:And when you go, a lot of dudes, they have fun stories about flying in Blackhawks and things like that.
Guest:Well, yeah, you get to fly in the Blackhawks, which is awesome.
Guest:And they keep the back.
Guest:It's so weird because my buddy Ryan Dalton, I went with Ryan Dalton, Peter Gungsley this last one.
Guest:We were going in.
Guest:And Ryan documented the whole thing.
Guest:He filmed it.
Guest:And, you know, you take off in the helicopters, and they keep, like, the back door open.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it's almost like a pickup truck, and the guy's just chilling out.
Guest:He's tethered to the thing, but it's just like, wow, if we hit some turbulence or something, it's kind of crazy.
Guest:And, I mean, it's an amazing experience.
Guest:I mean, just flying around.
Guest:You feel like a man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you've got the pull-proof vest on.
Guest:You've got a helmet on.
Guest:It's badass.
Guest:And then you see an 18-, 19-year-old kid that are just...
Guest:They're kids, but they're out there fighting for us.
Marc:And when you do it, have you seen any action?
Guest:We got the first... As a comic.
Guest:Were you at the front lines?
Guest:The times I've gone in helicopters we've gotten shot at, but you don't really know about it until you land.
Guest:And then they tell you?
Guest:Yeah, then they tell you.
Guest:That's how they treat guests?
Guest:Which is kind of cool, yeah.
Guest:But I'll never forget this.
Guest:One time I was with Colin...
Guest:We were in a C-130, which is one of those huge cargo planes.
Guest:And the pilot comes up and he's like, hey, we can take two of you guys.
Guest:You can come up in front, have the headsets on.
Guest:You can listen to us, and we're going to take off.
Guest:You can watch the ascent and the descent.
Guest:And Colin's like, hey, Byrne, let's go.
Guest:So we go up to the front.
Guest:Bobby's in the back.
Guest:We're taking off and we see these fireworks going off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm thinking, oh, that's cool.
Guest:They're celebrating some or whatever.
Guest:And then they land and they go.
Guest:And as we're landing, they told us that those were flares, heat-seeking flares, because we were being shot at by RPGs.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:And Colin was just like, how great would that be that you and I knew that we were going to die, but Bobby's in the back just confused, just knowing the plane's going down he's going to die by himself.
Guest:Bobby Kelly?
Guest:Bobby Kelly, yeah.
Guest:Bobby Kelly.
Guest:That would have been sad.
Guest:He probably would have jerked off.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was probably jerking off before even.
Guest:So where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Pittsburgh.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know anyone from Pittsburgh.
Guest:It's a hotbed for comedy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But, you know, Gardell came out of it.
Guest:He's on Mike and Molly now.
Guest:Jezzelneck.
Guest:He's doing great.
Guest:He's from Pittsburgh?
Guest:Yeah, he's from Pittsburgh.
Marc:You never met Jeselnik?
Marc:I've never met him.
Guest:How is that possible?
Marc:I mean, what, have you been away from the cellar that long on the road that you... Yeah, I moved out of New York City seven years ago, maybe.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, so I stopped going there.
Marc:How the fuck?
Marc:I'm, you know, everything's becoming a big, long blur.
Marc:So where are you headquartered?
Guest:Now I just got a place in Chicago about five months ago.
Guest:I lived in L.A.
Guest:for six years, and then I got this place in Chicago, and for me...
Guest:it's like now I actually go to LA I'm doing stuff yeah which is you know I knew the minute I'd move it'd be like oh now I have to go back for stuff I was there for six years and I wasn't doing anything yeah but uh now as a comic you get anywhere in two and a half three hours it's a direct flight right no layovers it just cuts the time and the chick's in Chicago right and and my girl's in Chicago yeah and her family's in Minneapolis so it's like four hours so she's great so what do you got going on here
Guest:Working on a thing that we're pitching at Comedy Central today and then another.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Like a sitcom that I'm writing with this guy named Rob Long.
Marc:It's weird you haven't met Jez on it because he was coming.
Marc:Well, I guess when Fallon started, he was living in New York.
Marc:He was going to the cellar a lot.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:He's a funny guy.
Guest:I've heard great things about him, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he's a good joke writer.
Guest:I mean, there's so many young now like Hannibals, great Colin Jost, John Mulaney.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All those guys, they're great.
Guest:Yeah, our time is done, Steve.
Guest:Yeah, it's pretty much over.
Guest:You better grab something.
Guest:Do you do colleges too?
Guest:No, I'm getting in a bowling league with Dom Irera, I think, next week.
Guest:No, I stopped doing colleges.
Guest:I don't like them.
Guest:Well, they're really kids.
Guest:They are kids, yeah.
Guest:It's like now I'm 36.
Guest:I don't have anything in common with them.
Marc:You're kind of filthy.
Marc:A little bit, towards the end?
Marc:Yeah, towards the end, yeah.
Marc:There's a big, I believe, there's a big fuck piece at the end, correct?
Guest:The Bruce Lee, that went to the rafters a few years ago.
Guest:I retired that, yeah.
Marc:No, there was something where I know you're laying down on the stage.
Guest:Oh, the doggy style one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't do that on the road.
Guest:At the store, I do it with Jeff because he plays the piano and it's just a fun thing, but I hardly ever do that anymore.
Guest:You pretty clean?
Guest:Am I?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it's getting, my stuff's getting, you know, my first stuff was all about silly stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then my second hour was about identity because, you know, there's a lot of guys that are mixed ethnicity like myself, for example, like Carlos, who will talk about being the beaner or whatever, but it's like, you're half German too.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that's why my stuff was never... I would address being Asian, but I never made it a staple in my act.
Guest:And then when the second hour came out, I was like, what do I write?
Guest:I mean, who am I?
Guest:That was the basis of the whole thing.
Guest:Who am I?
Guest:And it was about identity.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm not Asian.
Guest:I'm not Irish.
Guest:I'm American.
Guest:And that was the basis of it, of just being American.
Guest:And now the second one, or the third one that I'm writing now is kind of more like a Gran Torino style, where it's like addressing being able to say things and not feel bad about them.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:You know, like one of my pieces now is on like the ADT.
Guest:I don't want to do the bit, obviously.
Guest:But it's about, I was watching the ADT home security system ads.
Guest:My buddy is like, you know, in every one of those, it's a white guy.
Guest:It is literally a white guy in every single one of those.
Guest:The criminal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Always the rapist, the hoodie, the watching girls on treadmills, all that stuff.
Guest:And I was just like...
Guest:It's really ridiculous that you, you know, and you look at the prison population, it's like statistically blacks, but you wouldn't know that because everybody's PC, you can't say these things.
Guest:But it's like statistically, they're the ones doing this stuff.
Guest:And you can't say that because then you're racist.
Guest:But every one of the commercials to keep people out of your homes is white in the commercials.
Guest:And I just thought that's kind of...
Guest:Kind of fucked up.
Marc:Well, I mean, there are white racists and there are white guys that wear hoodies and break into houses.
Marc:Maybe they're just dealing with the smaller numbers.
Marc:Maybe those in those neighborhoods.
Marc:It could be a neighbor.
Marc:You know, you never know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is exactly what I'm talking about, though.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Somebody's got it.
Guest:It's like, well, maybe.
Guest:But yeah, well, maybe.
Guest:But what are you saying?
Guest:Let's just generalize.
Guest:Let's be real.
Marc:Okay, well, we can generalize, but you can also say that, okay, you're saying that it really should be a black guy because that company should represent who most could mix it up?
Guest:Yeah, mix it up.
Guest:Not every one of them has to be white.
Marc:Maybe they should have a couple of guys breaking in, a black guy, a white guy, and a Mexican guy.
Guest:It's true, yeah.
Guest:Like the three amigos of small petty crimes.
Guest:I think I just got you a tag.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:Can I borrow your pen?
Guest:Now I won't walk away from you at the comedy store.
Marc:That's funny.
Marc:The politically correct, you know, let's represent the prison population as best we can in an effective way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was at the Underground Railroad Museum in Cincinnati.
Guest:Again, you're on the road.
Marc:But is your suggestion, though, essentially that they're afraid to do that because they will be- Oh, absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it is a commercial, and they have control over how they want to present things.
Marc:Yeah, my last special, it's literally-
Marc:You would think that if they put a black guy in, it'd be scary to the white people that are trying to protect their home.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:In the joke, I go, your sales will go through the roof.
Guest:But it's just like, in my last special, it was literally every single commercial you see on TV, it is black and white people nonstop.
Guest:I see actually more black people on commercials than I do in real life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But every one of them, it's just like there was that movement like 10 years ago in Hollywood, we need more black actors, we need more black.
Guest:And I'm not negating it at all.
Guest:Believe me, I think it's a good thing.
Guest:But I think it's just gone overboard.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I think it needs to be pulled back.
Marc:Well, expecting social responsibility from, you know, corporations that are doing advertising or even like, you know, their issues of censorship that, you know, when somebody says that's bullshit, man, they didn't let him say that on NBC.
Marc:You know, it's like, yeah, that's it.
Marc:That's not a constitutional problem.
Marc:I mean, that's a private business and they're deciding these things.
Marc:That's not maybe it's not right.
Marc:And maybe we have a problem with it, but it's not a constitutional problem.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:You know, I'm going through something now with... What were you going to say about the railroad thing?
Guest:Oh, Underground Railroad.
Guest:I was going through there.
Guest:And that museum, the more I learned about slavery, for example, I just don't... I feel like white people just take a severe pounding in comedy.
Guest:Like, white guys are the bad guys, just constantly.
Guest:You can easily make fun of white guys, but the minute you kind of turn around and make fun of... I've never really heard anybody defending white people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:We are the majority still.
Guest:Yeah, but you wouldn't know that by what you can say on TV.
Guest:I'm going through right now with... I got some notes from J.P.
Guest:Buck from Conan.
Guest:For Conan, yeah.
Guest:Now, you can make fun of white people all day long, but you turn it around, you cannot make fun of black people.
Guest:You cannot make fun of Mexicans.
Guest:You can't, like Sarah Silverman, you can't, you know, with the whole Goog or chink thing or whatever...
Guest:You can't make fun of Asians or whatever, but you should be able to.
Guest:I think everybody should be fair game.
Guest:You can pound white people in a set.
Marc:What does that really look like?
Marc:I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I think that even if the numbers are skewing a direction to where we are more multi-ethnic, that the paradigm and the power structure is still fundamentally white.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And I think that, you know, that if there's any sensitivity to it is that, you know, that's the truth.
Guest:But I don't see anything wrong with saying that, because I think the minute you say that people like, oh, that's not, you know, it's everybody's distinct and everybody's special.
Guest:But it's just like, look, the rule, you cannot negate the numbers.
Guest:White whites are 60 to 7 percent of the population.
Guest:That is just that's it.
Guest:So when you see more white people in commercial, you should.
Guest:You shouldn't see as many black people in commercials.
Guest:That was the basis of one of my other jokes.
Marc:But black people is just a big market as well.
Marc:So, I mean, they market to black people.
Marc:There are certain things.
Guest:They should market to more Latinos because they outnumber them.
Guest:They're 14 percent.
Guest:Blacks are 13 percent.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know.
Marc:But no, but I'm just trying to figure out.
Marc:So your point is that, you know, I find that I find that some stereotype humor, if done right, is is good.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think that if people do it, you know, in a fairly equal way, it's fine.
Marc:I have no problem with it.
Marc:But I still don't see that there's like that white people are taking a beating.
Marc:I've never gotten that feeling and I've only heard it from a couple of people.
Marc:And you're you're half Asian.
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:So I kind of, that's why I started playing the fence a little bit more on this last special where I was thinking about identity.
Guest:I was thinking more about race because I was like, what am I?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:What am I?
Guest:So I just kept questioning that and I started looking at race a little differently and that became the basis of a lot of the new material.
Guest:And I think like, for example, it's so easy to do an Asians can't drive joke and Asians are great at math joke.
Guest:Can they?
Guest:I mean, I live in LA.
Marc:I mean, seriously, I mean, it was horrible.
Marc:I'll be the first to say.
Marc:Absolutely horrible.
Marc:I mean, are we talking like an 80 percentile?
Marc:I mean, it's enough to make it.
Marc:It's enough to build a case.
Marc:I mean, because like I'm not a guy that really wants to believe stereotypes.
Marc:But obviously some people say, and I think it's true, that the basis of stereotypes are true.
Marc:And usually that community will admit to that.
Marc:I agree.
Marc:But living in L.A., it's fucking amazing how predictable it is.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:But you can't say these things.
Guest:You should be able to say those things.
Marc:You can.
Marc:You're free to do it.
Guest:As a comic.
Guest:But you can't say it on TV.
Guest:You can't say it on a late night set.
Guest:You can't.
Guest:Everything's pulled.
Guest:The range is pulled back.
Marc:But that's all about advertisers.
Marc:They don't want to make any waves because they don't want to get hate mail or lose an advertiser.
Marc:I mean, you've got to look at it, too.
Marc:A lot of these media outlets are on their last legs financially.
Marc:So, I mean, their panic is probably worse than it ever has been.
Guest:I agree.
Marc:And it used to be about Christians, but now it's about any grassroots community movement making a stink enough for a product, an advertiser, to say, like, we're not going to take any more risks with this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then they're sunk.
Marc:They don't give a shit about us.
Marc:That's our job.
Marc:We sell drinks and soap products.
Marc:Cars.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're just we're just in between by this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I mean, so what's the struggle you've had with it?
Marc:I mean, how are the jokes being received?
Marc:And what is your point is basically we should be able to say this stuff because we're all Americans.
Guest:Yeah, I think, you know, I grew up when it was a melting pot in America, where everybody was supposed to kind of blend together.
Guest:And now, as the years have gone on, it almost seems like now we're kind of separating each other from each other, where you should be able to speak Spanish in class.
Guest:You should be able to learn about this.
Guest:Instead of it all being a broad kind of, we're all Americans, let's just focus on one thing instead of...
Guest:You know, you have your little thing, you have your little thing.
Guest:To me, it just, I think it muddies the water too much.
Guest:I think it should be a homogenous community and everybody should get along.
Guest:And at the end of the day, that's the point of what I'm trying to convey.
Guest:You know, when I was talking about the Underground Railroad, I started learning more and more about it.
Guest:And, you know, it's just like, I think, again, white people get the blame for slavery.
Guest:But I was going through the museum and I'm like, well, how did they come here?
Guest:You know, the Africans were selling their own people
Guest:To the whites.
Guest:So they're, you know, I mean, I grew up in the 90s.
Guest:It's like Mother Africa.
Guest:It's like the people that sold you?
Guest:Sure.
Marc:But also those were probably based in tribal conflicts.
Marc:I'm sure members of one tribe were not selling the members of their tribe.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:They would overtake the smaller tribe and then sell that smaller tribe to the youth.
Marc:But nonetheless, I mean, if you start having those conversations like, hey, you know, look, it wasn't all our fault.
Marc:You know, they were made available.
Right.
Guest:I agree with you.
Guest:I agree with you.
Guest:You can't really do that.
Guest:But it's just like the blame can go around and around and around, but it's like, let's just get over it.
Marc:But I think the point is, though, and this is an issue that I have with political correctness and also what you're saying is that in order for a melting pot to function...
Marc:those communities had to be very well defined at the time of the melting pot even.
Marc:Whether it was the Jewish immigrants, Italian immigrants, or Irish immigrants sought when they got the freedom to live here and try to get opportunity for themselves.
Marc:They grouped together in very strong communities that honored their traditions and honored their national heritage.
Marc:But they also knew they were in America.
Marc:And I don't think that is unlike anything that's going on here.
Marc:In order to have a voice in this country,
Marc:You don't automatically just get one because you're here.
Marc:And I think a lot of these communities, had they not defined themselves as communities within America, would have just been overridden.
Marc:And a lot of those communities were mistreated for years before they got enough momentum and money and a voice within the American cultural fabric before they could really establish themselves here.
Marc:I mean, like Jews, for instance.
Marc:I mean, Christ, you couldn't even go to a college.
Marc:There was that whole idea of passing.
Marc:And then I think it also happened with the black community where you have some sort of a schism within the community of people that are tomming or acting too white.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, there are community standards and community ideas and definition that I think are necessary to even establish themselves as Americans with a unique lineage.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:I agree with everything you just said.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, I don't know.
Marc:Like, I just I have a hard time with the idea of the white guy is victim, you know, because that's just too close to a tea party disposition or to, you know, the Christian victimness, you know, that like you can sort of turn that for a white person to really say, like, you know, you know, fuck these minorities.
Marc:Where's my job?
Marc:It's like, you know, it's there.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:It is one slant of what I'm trying to write or whatever.
Marc:But what is the thematic of it all?
Marc:You're coming at it as somebody... Now, is your mom or your dad Asian?
Marc:My mom.
Marc:And she was born here or no?
Guest:No, she was born in Korea.
Guest:My father met her when he was stationed there during the Vietnam War.
Marc:Well, that's sort of an interesting thing.
Marc:I mean, that seems to... I imagine that's been condescended to on some level.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The idea of the American bringing home the Asian bride.
Guest:It is a fact.
Marc:No, but I mean people have a certain assumption about that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Absolutely, yeah.
Marc:Have you taken any hits for your ethnicity?
Marc:Have I taken hits for my ethnicity?
Guest:Oh, yeah, all my life.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:You know, like in the last special, I addressed it in terms of whatever... Basically, when you're mixed, whatever kind of dilutes, whatever fucks up the water, that's what you are.
Guest:Whatever kind of fucks up the whitey, that's what you are.
Guest:If you're half black, you're black.
Guest:If you're half Asian, you're Asian.
Guest:Because I've been called gook, chink, panfait.
Guest:I killed your dad in Vietnam.
Guest:I've heard everything.
Guest:I've never been called Irish ever, ever in my life.
Marc:Not even by your Irish family?
Marc:Your grandparents?
Marc:Bring the nip kid over.
Guest:They passed away, actually, early on because they hit the sauce quite a bit.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:So your grandparents?
Marc:So they never met you?
Guest:I met my grandmother when I was a baby.
Guest:You know, I don't really, I can't, I have no memories of her.
Marc:But do you have relatives on your father's side that you think look at you differently?
Marc:Cousins or anything else?
Guest:No, I mean, once you're family, you're all family.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, it is still kind of, I mean, it's... Do you ever get like, is he adopted?
Guest:No, my dad's family is really small, so it's been a weird kind of family.
Guest:What do you mean weird?
Guest:Weird.
Guest:You know, it's just a... Tight?
Guest:Yeah, a tight-knit family.
Guest:But it was strained over years, over circumstances that I don't even know too much about.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It sounds interesting.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Not really.
Guest:Not really?
Marc:No.
Marc:But what about your Korean side?
Marc:I mean, is that a large family?
Marc:Do you have... Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:Yeah, when I was growing up, I was five years old.
Guest:We had two of my other families living with us in Jersey.
Guest:So I remember my cousin came over and he threw up ramen noodles all over the backyard, like pockets.
Guest:And I just thought, wow, these are crazy worms.
Guest:I've never seen these before.
Guest:And then I realized he's eating ramen noodles and just booting them because he wasn't used to the water.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:They came over from Korea?
Guest:Yeah, straight off the plane.
Guest:I didn't say boat, but they didn't even know what automatic windows were.
Guest:Like, my dad would put down the windows and he was totally fucking with my aunt when they were coming back from the airport.
Guest:And she kept freaking out.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:She thought it was haunted or something.
Guest:Magic?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So, I mean, that's how poor they were.
Marc:So, now, like, even in the situation that you just set up, which was that, you know, you were singled out as being something that, you know, was limiting and racist.
Marc:I mean, there's no... How do you come around to the fact that white people are getting the short end of the stick here?
Yeah.
Guest:I think in terms of when you're doing stand-up, it's very easy to make fun of everybody.
Guest:If you're of race, it's very easy to get away with stuff.
Guest:I see what you're saying.
Guest:When you're white and you take that angle and you try to make fun of other, you're just going to get slammed.
Guest:You're going to be looked at as racist.
Guest:It's going to be very uncomfortable in the room.
Guest:There's very few people that can pull it off, like Bill Burr.
Guest:Pulls that off.
Guest:He walks in line.
Guest:But making racial observations.
Guest:Colin's great.
Guest:Lampanelli does it, but to an umpteenth degree where it's so ridiculous.
Marc:Well, you know, it's weird when you talk about it because, you know, when I've talked about it at all and I do and it's just like people and even you, you know, you're saying something that shouldn't be
Marc:challenging you're making an observation yeah you're not being a racist and it should not be you know you shouldn't feel like you know before you say like oh god here we go right like there's a like an a weird nervous excitement to just you know making an observation
Marc:Right.
Marc:That, you know, that is, you know, is going to be misinterpreted.
Marc:And a lot of audiences will stifle their reaction to it, even if it's fine, because they don't know, you know, where you're coming from.
Marc:You know, all they know is you're talking about race and they're going to sit this one out.
Guest:Yeah, it really, I mean, especially in working on this new special, Touring the Country and stuff, the minute you talk about other races, you know, they'll kind of, ooh, ooh, come on, can you not, just not, and then- They can't even trust their own instincts.
Guest:Yeah, but you're slamming, slamming white people, slamming, slamming.
Guest:They're dying laughing, clapping.
Guest:It's like, those are the jokes you should be offended at.
Guest:You're slamming white people as an Asian.
Guest:On some level.
Guest:I mean, you're obviously- I address that I'm both, but I look at myself as an American.
Guest:That's how I look at myself.
Guest:That's how I view myself.
Guest:That's the view I took because early on, I knew that I could be an Asian comic.
Guest:I could draw an Asian crowd or whatever.
Guest:I could play one side of the fence and milk it, but I never wanted to be that.
Guest:And it took me a while to learn-
Guest:To figure out who I was on stage, you know?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And now you're fighting the fight for the victimization of white people.
Marc:It's time to turn... No, that's just one part of the act.
Marc:Just one, you know, 10-minute chunk.
Marc:How do you frame it?
Marc:Do you frame it that, you know, your father's white?
Marc:I mean, is it framed in your ethnicity?
Marc:Or, I mean, how do you frame the material?
Guest:Um...
Guest:I mean, it's weird because you're asking me about a bit, and then instantly I have to see it like on a set list and go, oh, okay, this is how I set it up.
Guest:But I just say, is there anything wrong with stereotyping people?
Guest:And I don't think there's anything wrong with stereotyping people, and that's how I kind of set it up.
Guest:It's not the most genius way of getting into it.
Marc:What you really think about how the white stereotype plays from ethnic comics, it's usually some interpretation of Pryor's white guy.
Marc:You know, whether Mexicans do it or Latinos or whether black people do it, it's always like, oh, is this where we're sitting, dear?
Marc:You know, it's always that weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Connecticut.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Polo collar up.
Marc:And now it's interesting, though, that that that stereotype is is even more limited.
Marc:than the way that those ethnicities are stereotyped.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:At least there's a language and a sort of community base to the way that ethnic stereotypes are placed on others.
Marc:Even if it's the Mexicans or the blacks and even the Chinese to some degree, all those stereotypes involve a broader part of their communities.
Marc:There's a whole list of things that may or may not be true.
Marc:Most of them are true on some level.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:that are drawn from that community.
Marc:But when those ethnicities characterize a white person, it's very specific.
Marc:It's got no real bearing on what white people are.
Marc:It's always just sort of like, why are we, is this a bad neighborhood, dear?
Marc:It's always just this doofus that's gotten himself into a little nervous or a little hot water somehow.
Guest:Wow, what a pickle.
Guest:Yeah, it's constantly Clark Griswold.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, roll him up, kids.
Guest:That's interesting.
Marc:I never really thought of that.
Marc:That, you know, I guess... I've heard some... Mark, you're welcome.
Marc:Well, thank you very much.
Marc:I appreciate the thinking.
Marc:But I've heard some black comics who have taken on certain areas of white culture, like the hipsters or whatever.
Marc:I mean, Patrice will...
Marc:And I love that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A little more specific in their stereotyping.
Guest:When you dig a little deeper, it's it's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A little broader, but more specific.
Marc:Like they're at least acknowledging that there are other type of uptight white people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:That it's not all just a sort of like a middle class, middle age couple.
Marc:But there are younger people that are uptight as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was reading the outliers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was a part in it where he was talking about why Asians are good at math.
Guest:And it comes down to language about the syllables being shorter.
Guest:Four is one syllable, but it's kind of drawn out.
Guest:And as a little kid, when you're developing, four, it takes a lot to process.
Guest:One.
Guest:Boom, it's done.
Guest:So he was describing that.
Guest:And so I wrote a joke about that.
Guest:And I think you just dig a little deeper.
Guest:You find out...
Guest:You find the truth behind what it is you're trying to say.
Guest:I could sit up there and do Asians are good at math jokes all day, but I don't want to do that.
Guest:Why are Asians good at math?
Guest:That's the better joke for me.
Guest:So I want to find that with all the different kinds of ethnicities and sort of peg that.
Marc:So in a sense, by going deeper into what makes stereotypes true,
Marc:you create an actual broader understanding of the culture that has been stereotyped.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think the thesis that I'm putting forth in most of the stuff is that when you stereotype people, you're not saying all of them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're saying most of them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Most.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I don't think it's racist to also state the obvious.
Guest:You know, Joe Biden got in trouble for saying all the Middle Easterns run the 7-Elems.
Guest:I was watching this thing on CNBC.
Guest:It's like, yeah, they mostly do.
Guest:But you get all this flack for it.
Guest:It's like, well, what's wrong with saying that?
Guest:I mean, Asians do directly.
Guest:Every one of them in my neighborhood does.
Guest:And if I was an Asian and I said that, that could be racist.
Guest:But it's not racial.
Guest:It's racial.
Guest:Right, that's right.
Marc:It's generalizing, but it's not racist.
Marc:Racist would be like, I hate 7-Eleven because they're run by stinky Middle Easterns.
Marc:Then that's an issue.
Marc:But just saying, from my experience, I talk about that with my awkwardness around Chinese.
Marc:I say, I don't know anything about them.
Marc:I mean, we eat their food.
Guest:Just say, sorry about the tsunami.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:You can do that.
Marc:Yeah, I can do that after every joke.
Marc:Look, I hope you're not misunderstanding me.
Guest:After every joke, yeah.
Marc:I kicked a few bucks in, you know.
Marc:I'm not trying to be insensitive.
Marc:I sent a check to whoever for the thing.
Guest:I did text 7-877 to Red Cross, so please.
Guest:We're good, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, but I mean, but I know that's my that comes from my own ignorance, which is where racism comes from.
Marc:But, you know, I don't have anything against them.
Marc:Usually when I feel different or alien from a culture, it's I just want to be accepted.
Marc:I'd probably rather be in that culture because then I think I would have some definition to my life.
Marc:So next time I see you'll be in a kimono.
Marc:Yeah, but that would be like, I don't want to try that hard.
Marc:You know, I don't want to.
Marc:Yeah, I'll be or talking, you know, in some black slang.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you see that all the time that, you know, people want to have an identity, a cultural identity.
Marc:So your message is basically we're all Americans.
Marc:Some of this stuff is true, but why not embrace it as opposed to.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Marc:And have fun with each other.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, lay off the white people.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Everybody's fair game is Gran Torino.
Marc:Okay, all right.
Marc:Yeah, and that guy really had a pleasant disposition.
Marc:He really came upon his acceptance.
Guest:But that shop and the barber scene was so refreshing.
Guest:It's like, why is that wrong to be around a bunch of guys and jab and have fun?
Guest:No, no, I agree with you.
Guest:Because it just takes one person to be in that room and be like, you know, I didn't like it, what was going on in there, and then they talk to a supervisor or whatever, and then everything's, you know.
Guest:You guys can't talk like that at work.
Guest:It's just like, ugh.
Marc:So your parents are happy with what you do?
Guest:Yeah, my mom, yeah.
Guest:They were very supportive from the get-go.
Guest:You know, when I first started, because I was working the floors at Caroline's.
Guest:That's how I got into stand-up out of college.
Marc:You weren't even working the floors.
Guest:I answered the phone.
Guest:I spoke the floors.
Guest:Just a shit job out of college, just trying to make money.
Guest:And I saw the comics.
Guest:I thought, that looked like fun.
Guest:I gave it a few months.
Guest:And then my folks used to go with me to New York Comedy Club every weekend.
Guest:one week like a Saturday or Friday once a week for like maybe three months I did that every single and they saw me do the same horrible jokes every single time but they paid they'd wait two and a half three hours you know I mean that's nice yeah you both your mom and dad oh yeah every time so they were my two because it's interesting you come from from military and and Korean both of them have very controlled and and demanding expectations of their offspring generally
Marc:Yeah, you're right, yeah.
Marc:And you seem to got off easy.
Guest:I did get off easy, yeah.
Guest:But when I first did The Tonight Show, that's when it really hit home for my mom.
Marc:It's not a phase.
Marc:It seems to be working out.
Marc:Yeah, 10 years in.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, that's how long it takes.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think most of the time parents are just worried.
Marc:They just want the best for you, of course.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You would hope.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sometimes I'm not completely sure.
Marc:So now when you lived, I guess we can bring up the fact that your first manager was Barry Katz.
Guest:here we go yeah was he though ding ding uh no my first was roger paul actually oh roger paul with all the gigs and the and the ex-wife who used to do the bride's bit claudia sherman yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and he used to run gigs in jersey and he used to do right long island yeah the whole tri-state yeah he was your first guy a lot of guys started with him yeah he he found me at new york comedy club the second time i performed he gave me his card uh-huh and i went and met with him and
Guest:uh, yeah, it just started working right away.
Guest:I kind of got lucky.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:So yeah, but cats, I started working with cats.
Guest:Uh, I don't know, maybe a few years.
Marc:I don't know if people know, but Barry cats is a fairly infamous manager.
Marc:I mean, when I was, but even back in 1988, I mean, when he was running a comedy booking operation and college booking operation and,
Marc:out of a basement in Alston, Massachusetts.
Marc:He offered to sign me.
Marc:He signed a lot of guys in.
Marc:I think Louis was with him.
Marc:Nick DiPaolo was with him.
Marc:There was a lot of people that no longer do comedy.
Marc:Anthony Clark was with him.
Marc:He went on this massive signing thing.
Marc:There was a lot of people that were with him at one point or another.
Marc:And he's got a reputation, but he's also got a lot.
Marc:Jay Moore was with him.
Marc:Chappelle was with him for a while.
Marc:But a lot of these guys aren't with him.
Marc:I don't know his whole roster, but he definitely has a reputation.
Marc:I wouldn't say it's slimy, but it's certainly ambitious.
Marc:Maybe a little slimy, but I've known the guy for years.
Marc:I mean, to call someone on that side of show business slimy and have it mean anything is...
Marc:it's the norm yeah it kind of is but you know we all but you know some of them are better than others and you know i don't want to make some are slimier right yeah okay i don't want to make it it's a tough business exploiting talent um you've really got to but but the the bottom line is you were with barry katz and and and obviously you know barry's biggest star to date i would have to think you know between jay
Marc:And Dane, Dane Cook has to be Dane Cook.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now I had Dane Cook in here and we talked about, you know, I talked about this with you afterwards and there was a very pivotal part of the interview where he accused someone of stealing his essence.
Marc:I don't know if I brought up your name in that interview, did I?
Marc:I think I did.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Yeah, I think you did.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And Dane's reaction was, yeah, but we resolved it.
Marc:We had a conversation about it and, you know, we we resolved it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then, you know, you wrote me a letter and you said you wrote me a message on Facebook and said, no, that's not what happened.
Guest:Yeah, he has his interpretation of the events.
Guest:And I certainly have my interpretation of the events.
Guest:And when it first came out, I remember I got all these emails.
Guest:And for years, people would bring it up on the radio.
Marc:Oh, because of my podcast.
Guest:Because of the podcast, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was just like, boom, boom, boom.
Guest:I was like, what is going on here today?
Guest:And for years, I never talked about it on the radio.
Guest:People would try to get me to talk about it on the radio on Sirius.
Guest:Norton asked me a few times to come in, Opie and Anthony.
Guest:I was like, I just don't want to do it.
Marc:What was the myth behind it?
Marc:I mean, like when people heard that, how did it get public?
Marc:I mean, what was that?
Guest:Well, I mean, I think it goes along with how big he was, with how big Dane was.
Guest:Because it was one of those things that kind of circulated, went around, and people would just ask me about it quite a bit.
Guest:Were you friends?
Guest:Especially when I was on the road.
Guest:No, we weren't friends.
Guest:We were acquaintances.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I would say that we all are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you say, hey, how you doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, how's things going?
Guest:That was it.
Guest:But, you know, what he's I never talked about it.
Guest:And then even it's been months since it's come out.
Guest:And there was a moment where I was like, I should talk to hell with that.
Marc:When it first happened or with me?
Guest:When the podcast happened, yeah.
Guest:I just didn't want to... I don't want it to become a he said, she said kind of thing, go back and forth, whatever.
Guest:But then I just kept getting asked about it, to be honest.
Guest:And that's probably due to the popularity of the podcast.
Marc:Well, yeah, I
Marc:I think that there's a community of comedy nerds and people who are interested in comedy, but there's also those who like conflict and just love to get people worked up about something.
Marc:But even after I did it, when you approached me, I thought, well, is this going to become some sort of war?
Marc:And again, it's old news, but I think that if there is a sequence of events
Marc:that was sort of glossed over and people were damaged because of it, it's worthy to talk about.
Guest:Well, believe me, when it first happened, I was affected.
Guest:Emotionally, I was kind of bummed out.
Guest:And I never wanted to talk about it because I didn't want people to think that...
Guest:that here's dane who's this blossoming comedian at the time and i didn't want them to think that oh this is why he's complaining because this is why he's not succeeding he wasn't blossoming i mean he was huge right uh at the time it was just before he hit so how many years ago is that
Guest:Oh, God, this has got to be 2004, 2005 maybe.
Guest:It's where everybody, if you were stand-up, you knew who Dane was.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He was getting ready to blow up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the rest of America, he wasn't like the huge star as now.
Guest:Right, but you felt the rocket was launching.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it was T minus 10, 9.
Guest:So essentially, this is what happened from my interpretation, okay?
Guest:Again, my truth.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, Jay Davis had the room Dublin's.
Guest:Then he had the room Excess, which was the huge... You know, Dublin's was this huge show that everybody went to.
Marc:Sunset Boulevard, that Jay Davis is a comic slash comic producer that... Jay Davis and Ahmed Ahmed ran this great show.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And it was packed all the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Dane probably had a lot to do with that success.
Guest:everybody would come and see Dane now I just moved from New York I really didn't know Dane I know I knew him because I was working with Katz whatever but I didn't know him know him so Barry Katz was your manager at the time already yeah and set me up with Jay and introduced me to the room whatever so Jay runs the room excess now because Dublin shuts down so I call him on Tuesdays hey can I come down and it was never a problem usually I'd come in if he didn't have a full roster and I called him up one time I said hey uh can I can I stop by tonight
Guest:Well, I don't think you can.
Guest:Yeah, because you haven't called me back.
Guest:Is something wrong?
Guest:Had you done the room before?
Guest:Tons.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:What's wrong?
Guest:Oh, well, Dane has a problem with you.
Guest:Dane's got a problem with me?
Guest:He goes, yeah, Dane's got a problem with you.
Guest:Okay, well, I got Dane's number.
Guest:I'll call Dane up.
Guest:So I called Dane up.
Guest:I go, I heard you have a problem with me.
Guest:He goes, yeah, I do.
Guest:I go, okay, well, where do you live?
Guest:I'll drive over and we can talk it out.
Guest:We can figure this out.
Guest:That's kind of how it's always been, just communicate.
Guest:So right there, I got in my car, I drove over, and we did talk.
Guest:Now, when he talks in the podcast, he made it seem like...
Guest:I'm going to do this guy a good one.
Guest:I'm going to call him up.
Guest:I'm going to bring him over.
Guest:I'm going to sit him on my knee and have a nice chat about comedy.
Guest:It's like, no.
Guest:This started because you didn't want me playing Jay Davis's room.
Guest:Okay, so you go over there, and what was the conversation?
Guest:I went over there.
Guest:We had a long conversation.
Guest:Um...
Guest:You know, he told me that you're stealing my essence.
Guest:You're trying to be me.
Guest:You're trying to, you know, have my essence on stage.
Guest:And I'm just like, look, before I moved here, I didn't know who you were.
Guest:I heard of you.
Guest:I didn't work seven years in New York City for seven nights a week, five shows, sometimes 10 shows a night, to try to be a knockoff version of anybody else.
Guest:I'm trying to do me, you know?
Guest:And then in the podcast, he goes...
Guest:He goes, you know, Steve even said that he had a conversation with his father about...
Guest:who you know about his comedy it was like yeah i was having a conversation with my dad i i'm still not trying to emulate emulate you it's not you know you're not meriting anything by saying that it's like literally i was trying to still discover myself that's that's the conversation we had yeah i always heard your your famous thing is that it takes 10 years in comedy to be an overnight success it takes 10 years to to figure out your voice in comedy and i had not approached that benchmark yet and i was like i'm still figuring it out you know
Guest:But I'm not trying to be like you.
Guest:I'm not trying to be like anybody.
Guest:I'm trying to be me, but I'm trying to figure it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the gist of what I'm trying to do.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So, you know, in the thing he's saying, you know, Steve's dressing like me.
Guest:He's trying to dress.
Guest:It's like, dude.
Guest:Jeans in a t-shirt.
Guest:I mean, I never wore a suit until I was headlining.
Guest:You name me, you look at any roster, tell me what they're wearing.
Guest:Jeans in a t-shirt.
Guest:I mean, that's what I was wearing when I was performing.
Guest:I wasn't trying to be like him or I never got highlights in my hair or anything.
Guest:Like, you know, I never wore bracelets or, you know, it just like, to me, it was just, it was mind-blowing.
Guest:But we did have a conversation, okay?
Guest:At the end of it, it was a decent conversation.
Guest:Did he cite bits?
Guest:Did he cite certain- No, and he said that.
Guest:He said, I can't name a specific bit, but you're trying to be like me.
Guest:You're trying to steal my essence.
Guest:And I was just like- The essencing came up over and over again.
Guest:It came up a few times, yeah.
Guest:But he was looking for a word.
Guest:That's the word he landed on, and he just stuck with it.
Guest:When we left-
Guest:I thought it was a decent conversation.
Guest:And when I was leaving, he goes, you know, maybe it's not your time to be here right now.
Guest:Maybe it's not your time to be in Los Angeles right now.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I was just like, oh, geez.
Guest:I thought we were kind of going to end it all right.
Guest:And that was the last thing he said to me before I left.
Guest:And I'm not making this up.
Guest:Like, I swear to God this happened.
Guest:This is, again, with everything that I'm saying.
Guest:He goes, you know, I feel like I'm in this city right now.
Guest:I drive up into the hills.
Guest:I overlook the city.
Guest:And I give this city my energy.
Guest:And I get the energy back from the city.
Guest:And he shut his eyes and he started breathing in and out and kind of doing this thing with his fingers.
Guest:And I was just like, this dude's just lost the plot.
Guest:And I just said, I'm done.
Guest:I don't know what else to say.
Guest:And I go, okay, well, okay, goodbye.
Guest:I left, okay?
Guest:Now I tell, look, we're comics.
Guest:I had like two or three pals at the time.
Guest:Hey, what'd you do today?
Guest:What'd you do today?
Guest:Oh, you went to the Grove?
Guest:Hey, here's what I did today.
Guest:I guess Dana had a problem with me.
Guest:I went over and talked to him.
Guest:He accused me of stealing his essence.
Guest:Oh, that's fucked up.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of fucked up.
Guest:All right, I'll see you at this store tonight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Well, it takes like two or three guys to tell three or four more guys and then six more guys know and then eight more guys know, okay?
Guest:So now I'm at the Hollywood Improv about a month later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I see Dane there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, let's go outside.
Guest:I got to talk to you.
Guest:I go, okay.
Guest:So I go outside.
Guest:He goes, why are you telling everybody about our conversation?
Guest:I didn't tell everybody.
Guest:I told two or three of my pals and then they probably told a bunch of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:but it's not like i made anything up it's the truth he's like well that's really fucked up man we had a conversation between the two of us i go i go look man i'm not trying to be like you i don't know where this is headed but just lay off you know i don't know what the fuck's going on here but i'm not trying to steal your essence not trying to be like you yeah whatever all of a sudden it gets a little heated i hear
Guest:like he did how like you were gonna kick his ass or he's gonna pee we were just going back and forth and stuff and and he was pissed but it's just like dude i'll fucking go if you want to go i don't give a fuck yeah you know let's go let's let's are you a goer i've i've gone yeah okay i've gone in my day yeah yeah i i'll go yeah but uh alex the manager yeah calls me and he goes burn get in here let's go we're starting the show i start running in realizing fuck i gotta bring this guy up so i gotta bring dane oh and we're out there
Guest:Dane goes, I'll never forget this.
Guest:He goes, you want to get our fans involved?
Guest:I go, what?
Guest:He goes, do you want to get our fans involved?
Guest:I'm like, I have no fans.
Guest:I think I just had a half hour.
Guest:I have no fans.
Guest:What are you talking about, getting our fans involved?
Guest:I just thought, what a delusional kind of, okay, so I got to run inside.
Marc:But the weird thing is, is that he wasn't delusional.
Marc:He was executing power, you know, that he knew that, you know, his time was upon him.
Marc:So he basically said, you know, get out of my city and I'm going to call my army, you know, into operation.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The Dane train was going to run me over.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I run in.
Guest:I got to bring him up, right?
Guest:And I'm sitting there.
Guest:I'm like, fuck.
Guest:I just had this kind of argument with him outside, and now I got to bring him up.
Guest:Do I give him a shitty intro?
Guest:Give him a good intro, whatever.
Guest:I don't think we shook hands, because most comics- But you were respectful.
Guest:I was being respectful, and I would look like a dickhead.
Guest:I'd look like a dickhead.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:This guy sucks.
Guest:And the crowd would turn on me, because he's huge.
Guest:So whatever.
Guest:And he was huge by then.
Guest:Yeah, he was getting huge, I would say.
Guest:And obviously, he's done quite well for himself.
Guest:Now, the next day, I get an email from Barry Katz, our manager, a guy I worked with for five, six years, the guy who told me to move to California.
Guest:And within a few months, this happens.
Guest:The next day, I check my email.
Guest:And it's an email saying that...
Guest:It's maybe a paragraph long.
Guest:Couldn't call me.
Guest:Paragraph long.
Guest:Sorry, I can no longer attend to your needs as a client.
Guest:I just had a second baby.
Guest:I really apologize.
Guest:I wish you all the best.
Guest:Something along those lines.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:I'm thinking, you got to be kidding me.
Guest:Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Guest:I can't prove why Barry dropped me.
Guest:But the day after we have this argument at the improv about me stealing his essence, now I don't have a manager.
Guest:You know, he bans me from doing Jay Davis's thing, and I can't do the Laugh Factory I heard from a guy he used to manage there that Dane said, no, he's not welcome here.
Guest:You know, it's all hearsay.
Guest:I can't prove anything, but it's just the stuff that came back to me again, you know?
Guest:And I'm not saying that he did that.
Guest:I'm saying it's just what I heard.
Guest:So...
Guest:Now I don't have a manager and I'm sitting there and I'm stewing.
Guest:And imagine, you know, you're a young kid.
Guest:I used to be able to do every club in New York City at any given time.
Guest:You come to LA, nobody gives a shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Dane's the big guy in LA right now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm just sitting there and I'm just like, I was so confused because I just moved to LA too.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm all fucked up.
Guest:I didn't know what's going on.
Guest:And it took me a few, maybe like a year or two to kind of get over it where-
Guest:where I was just like, wow, I can't believe somebody would say those things or do those things to another human being.
Marc:I just think that the politics of it is very interesting, that you've got a guy who's got momentum.
Marc:He's making other people money.
Marc:He knows he's on the rise.
Marc:He knows that he has this insane fan base.
Marc:He knows that his ego is huge.
Marc:And he's got a guy that is in the business of managing talent.
Marc:And he decides to make your livelihood suffer.
Guest:And the ironic thing is that I did get to a place where I was like, you know what?
Guest:In this business, at the end of the day, you always got to work the hardest for yourself.
Guest:It doesn't matter who you have, what agent, what manager.
Guest:You got to produce it.
Guest:And you got to figure it out.
Guest:And you got to be relevant.
Guest:You got to keep writing.
Guest:And that's when I started really kind of chime in.
Guest:And I got the hour special.
Guest:Then I got the second one.
Guest:And now I'm writing this one.
Guest:But when I was at the comedy store, this is maybe two or three years ago, I guess Dane was going to start working at the store.
Guest:I guess he ran into Pauly.
Guest:So a lot of the comics drafted up a petition they were giving to Mitzi.
Guest:And I forget who it was that called me, but they said, everybody signed this petition.
Guest:He's showing up there tonight because Mitzi is going to be there tonight to see him to obviously pass him or whatever.
Guest:But it's just one of those things you had to do.
Guest:So, Byrne, you got to come because everybody knows you got to show up.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not showing up.
Guest:I'm not going to be there.
Guest:I'm not signing a petition.
Guest:I'm not going to stand in the parking lot with a bunch of other guys with their arms folded to ban somebody because it already happened to me.
Guest:I don't like that happening to me, and I wouldn't want to do that to anybody else.
Guest:Even if it's the very guy that did it to me, I wouldn't do that.
Guest:So you guys can go ahead, but I'm not part of this at all.
Guest:And I remember I just stayed home, whatever, and that kind of was where...
Guest:That's when I kind of really was done with it.
Guest:Let it go.
Guest:Because it would bug me.
Guest:I'd be at the improv and I'd see him, and I'd be like, oh, I want to, you know.
Guest:And Neil Brennan actually talked me down one day, and he's just like, just get out of here.
Guest:Just leave, you know.
Guest:It's not going to change anything.
Guest:You're not going to do anything.
Guest:And it would get me angry if I'd visibly see him.
Guest:And now he could literally be in your front yard mowing the grass or having a lemonade.
Guest:Well, I have a surprise for you.
Marc:Hey!
Marc:Dang Cook, ladies and gentlemen.
Marc:And what, you wouldn't feel anything?
Marc:You'd be just like, hey.
Guest:I wouldn't feel anything, no.
Guest:I mean, there is a... You know, it depends if we had a conversation or whatever, and he lit a fuse, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'd probably... So even though, like, in retrospect, you did all right for yourself, clearly.
Marc:It didn't diminish your career at all.
Marc:No opportunities were lost.
Marc:But he definitely tried to cripple you.
Marc:It made me work a lot harder.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, because I... You know, for example, I was with Cats for years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I couldn't get a half-hour special.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He drops me.
Guest:I said, well, fuck it.
Guest:I'll do it myself.
Guest:I found out who books the half-hours.
Guest:I filmed a set at the Cleveland Improv, sent it in.
Guest:Within three months, I booked my own half-hour special.
Guest:I didn't have a manager.
Guest:I didn't have anybody.
Guest:Look at that.
Guest:And I was just like, all right, that's all I need to know now.
Guest:Do you have a manager now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So... But it took a bit to get over it.
Guest:You know, it's just... It's kind of a...
Guest:It was a mind fuck, I guess, because especially when you take in the fact that he was and probably is as big as he was, knowing that that person was kind of doing these weird things that you're just like, wow, you got the whole world by the string.
Guest:And you're worried about me?
Guest:It's like, I'm not trying to do anything, man.
Guest:I'm trying to get up at club excess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you could go to Notre Dame right now for $50,000 at the time.
Guest:Who knows how much a guy's making or whatever.
Guest:For me, I couldn't get over that.
Marc:It's an abuse of power.
Marc:In the politics of the world that we live in,
Marc:It's an abuse of power, and it comes from a megalomaniacal place, and it comes from a guy that was threatened, and it was Machiavellian.
Marc:I think I'm using that word right.
Marc:I hope I am.
Marc:I believe you are.
Marc:Good.
Marc:And do you forgive him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I saw him...
Guest:Again, if I saw him, I'd be like, you know, I'm fine.
Guest:I'm doing my thing.
Guest:I'm working hard.
Guest:I got a great career.
Guest:I got a great girl.
Guest:My family's healthy.
Guest:I love my family.
Guest:I love my friends.
Guest:I got a great crew around me.
Guest:So I don't think about that anymore.
Guest:It's not something that, you know, even when guys ask me on the road and stuff, I just wouldn't talk about it.
Guest:I just, I was just, I don't want to, I don't want to get negative.
Marc:Isn't that interesting?
Marc:It still comes up.
Marc:It's like Mancia and Rogan.
Marc:It comes up all the time.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Young comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That pop in.
Guest:Hey, could I get a guest set or the kid that I'm seeing the week?
Guest:You know, these are the people that ask me about it because they listen to podcasts.
Guest:They've heard the story.
Guest:I don't know who, how they know, but I get asked about all the time.
Guest:I was just at Sirius Radio and they asked me about it.
Guest:I'm not going to talk about it.
Marc:What's interesting, like, you know, this whole essence idea and in that, you know, it just to sort of couch it in in in that phrasing.
Marc:I mean, everybody, like you said, it's like, you know, look, we try to find our voice.
Marc:Everyone gets influence.
Marc:And then, you know, some dudes, you know, I've seen many guys go through phases of styles, you know, and whatever.
Marc:But, you know, for for him to, you know, to take that, you know, to be.
Marc:I'll tell you, that's a great moment.
Marc:I go up into the hills, and I put my energy out into this city, and this city gives it back to me.
Guest:That, to me, was the more fucked up thing than the essence thing, but it's something I always kept to myself.
Guest:I never really told anybody about it, but I was like, well, you know, might as well bust this open like a fine wine and let everybody enjoy this, please.
Guest:But in terms of... He takes a couple deep breaths.
Guest:In front of me, I'm like...
Guest:We're the doves.
Guest:What's going to happen here?
Guest:Is Ashton coming out?
Guest:What the fuck is happening here?
Guest:And I just, that's when I was like, okay, I'm out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Great hanging.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:Oh, God, that's great.
Guest:But after going through that experience, I see young kids on the road.
Guest:I see guys at the store, the improv.
Guest:What are they looking for from you, though?
Guest:What do they want?
Guest:They want dirt, right?
Marc:Dirt, yeah.
Marc:I just don't give it to them.
Marc:What do you make of that?
Marc:I mean, I found that not just with that situation, but this constant need to encourage conflict.
Marc:It's very bizarre to me, but our culture and the media seem to be driven on it.
Marc:They just want to pit people against each other or watch people fall apart.
Marc:Well, it's tabloids.
Guest:I mean, you write a script.
Guest:Every scene has got to have conflict in it, so it's fascinating.
Marc:You don't want to watch two people get along.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I know, but these are real people, and it's just sort of kind of interesting.
Guest:It is real people, Mark, and they're affected, and they end up on this podcast.
Guest:On the WTF.
Guest:On the WTF podcast.
Guest:They end up in my garage.
Guest:Well, I'm glad you came, Steve.
Guest:Thanks so much.
Guest:And glad we know that we don't hate each other.
Marc:I never thought I had a problem with it.
Marc:I never did.
Marc:You know, you were just very professional.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:I was like, you know, what's this guy all about?
Marc:The work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Doing doggy style jokes on a table with Jeff, the piano player.
Guest:Yeah, but that was kind of funny, very physical like that.
Guest:I used to be, you know, and I think that's probably where it came from with Dane, that I used to be very physical.
Guest:I used to be very animated, and I remember reading the book about stand-up in L.A., and David Brenner was saying how...
Guest:how the first time he did The Tonight Show, he wasn't going to get asked back.
Guest:And Carson's like, no.
Guest:He's too physical.
Guest:He's an amateur.
Guest:And basically what he says in the book is that you're not as physical when you know what you're doing, when you're comfortable, when you've had more experience.
Guest:And I felt that with my half hour, with my first hour, it was all just kind of smoking mirrors and silly shit.
Guest:You've got to kind of strut around, take ownership.
Guest:Yeah, and then basically you put the mic in the mic stand, you can tell some jokes and write some stuff out.
Guest:Now I feel so much more comfortable, and I feel like I finally found that voice.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you did, and I'm glad you're doing well.
Marc:I mean, I literally find myself on a stool in sort of a kind of crouching fetal position these days.
Marc:So I'm actually going way against the physical because I did my strutting, and now I think I'm just short of literally being a ball on a chair.
Yeah.
Marc:But I'm glad you're doing well, man.
Marc:Thanks for coming by.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:We'll see what happens with that.
Marc:It was a pleasure to talk to Steve.
Marc:Does a lot of good work out there.
Marc:That is the show today.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed it.
Marc:As always, go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:It's the new WTFPod.com.
Marc:You can listen to the show on the site.
Marc:Get the show at the site.
Marc:You can post comments.
Marc:I'll be posting things up on a fairly regular basis.
Marc:Everything is there at the new WTFPod.com.
Marc:If you want the pay episodes...
Marc:Dan Cook, Louis C.K., Judd Apatow, Ben Stiller.
Marc:I believe Atel is up there and all those live episodes we did at Comics.
Marc:You can go to WTFPodShop.com or search WTF Premium on iTunes.
Marc:Also, of course...
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Whoa.
Marc:Man, hold on.
Marc:There it is.
Marc:I just shit my pants.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, a loyal and wonderful sponsor of this show.
Marc:Always keeps me in caffeine.
Marc:A lot of people are enjoying the WTF blend.
Marc:If you get that, I get a little something.
Marc:We do have a live WTF coming up May 24th at the Steve Allen Theater.
Marc:Guests booked already.
Marc:As far as I know, Joel McHale will be there.
Marc:BJ Novak, Dwayne Perkins, Alan Havey,
Marc:Eddie Pepitone and Jim Earl.
Marc:So come out to that and God damn it.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:I think I'm okay.
Marc:You?
Marc:You okay?
Marc:Okay.