Episode 173 - Jonathan Winters
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuckericans?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:What the fuckannots?
Marc:I know there's a lot more.
Marc:I keep getting more.
Marc:I can't keep up with them.
Marc:You can send them if you'd like.
Marc:I don't need them, but I appreciate it.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:And quite honestly, I appreciate everything you guys do.
Marc:I appreciate you listening.
Marc:I'm constantly moved and grateful for the response I get to this show.
Marc:I really don't even know how to handle it.
Marc:But I was just in Irvine, California.
Marc:This is Orange County.
Marc:I took the gig because it was close by.
Marc:And an audience filled with free ticket holders is probably about the worst audience that you can have.
Marc:I mean, I'd rather perform for people that didn't like me where I had to fight them as opposed to people that are like, you know, we didn't pay for it.
Marc:But nonetheless.
Marc:Out there in Irvine, I had a strong showing of some powerful WTFers that came out to watch the show and enjoy the show.
Marc:And it's just interesting to be in a room filled with people that may not know who I am, which is fine.
Marc:I don't have any problem with it.
Marc:That may or probably do have free tickets and just the sort of weight of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's a little pocket of true fans who I really appreciate seeing.
Marc:And I tell you, I'm doing the show for you.
Marc:And it's just very interesting, that dynamic, because there was a time where I'd get on stage and I just hate the whole situation because there were free tickets.
Marc:It wasn't a full house and it was annoying and it was a difficult situation.
Marc:But because you guys come out,
Marc:It just inspires me to to make the show good for you, despite even if you're outnumbered, I don't give a shit.
Marc:And I really appreciate you coming down with cookies and tangerines and and just the the love, man.
Marc:I appreciate the love.
Marc:And I really it's really good to see you down there at the mall in Irvine.
Marc:I swear to God, when you go to that mall down in Irvine, sometimes I've been there twice.
Marc:And it seems as though they're actually manufacturing the people at the mall there at the mall.
Marc:I can't... Look, I'm not trying to spread any hate, but it's been a little difficult.
Marc:But I'm glad to be home.
Marc:I have been on the road for months, as you know.
Marc:And I am just thrilled to be cooking my own food, talking to my cats, standing on my deck, doing shit around the house, just feeling grounded.
Marc:It's very interesting when you get out there in the world and you're traveling a lot...
Marc:You get used to it and it's nice, but you feel completely displaced.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you.
Marc:There's a comfort in that.
Marc:As long as you know that your home base is being taken care of and you don't have to worry about that.
Marc:There's there's a comfort in just floating the old geographical cure thing.
Marc:It's like out there when I'm out on the road or I'm not at home or I'm far away.
Marc:Hey, man, all that.
Marc:It's a different world.
Marc:It's a different life.
Marc:My other life doesn't really count.
Marc:And I'm free.
Marc:I'm free to sit in hotel rooms and, you know, have my room cleaned.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Those are the perks, really.
Marc:But I'm I'm so fucking happy to be home and I'm excited about this episode.
Marc:I got a few things I want to tell you before we get into the episode.
Marc:Today's show is Jonathan Winters.
Marc:And that was an overwhelming thrill for me to drive up to Santa Barbara to interview Jonathan Winters.
Marc:He's 85 years old.
Marc:And I was not nervous, but I was overwhelmed and in awe on a lot of levels.
Marc:And I'll explain that to you in just a second.
Marc:I do want to get a couple of things out there.
Marc:I will be at LOLs.
Marc:in san antonio texas uh that's the 13th and 14th and 15th of this month may that's this coming weekend and also i really want to thank this is a very thoughtful gift uh lawrence over at rabbitair.com after hearing the ed helm show sent me a beautiful air purifier a big old machine you know out of concern for my guests he sent me a uh a minus a2
Marc:SPA 780A Ultra Quiet HEPA Air Purifier.
Marc:It's a big old machine.
Marc:But I thought that was very thoughtful.
Marc:He wasn't doing it for advertising.
Marc:He wasn't doing it for anything other than he's a fan of the show.
Marc:And he felt bad for Ed.
Marc:And I guess maybe I owe Ed an apology.
Marc:But now I have this air purifier and hopefully that'll help out with the allergies.
Marc:So anyways...
Marc:Let's get to this Jonathan Winters thing.
Marc:Now, I don't know how many of you are familiar with Jonathan Winters.
Marc:I mean, outside of maybe if you're younger, you might know him from the Mork and Mindy show.
Marc:But Jonathan Winters was one of the he is really the original improvisational genius comedian.
Marc:And he really is a genius.
Marc:And when I was younger, there was a time where I went to the Museum of Television Broadcasting.
Marc:But this before the Internet, before you could get everything online.
Marc:And I was going there to research Jack Parr because I'd had an opportunity to to
Marc:You know, host a talk show.
Marc:And I I really wanted to do something more along the lines of a of a single topic monologue.
Marc:And I wanted to research Jack Parr, who was one of the I think he was the second host of The Tonight Show.
Marc:So I was up there by myself in this cubicle at the Museum of Broadcasting.
Marc:You know, you got it.
Marc:You had to order like days in advance to see certain episodes.
Marc:I ordered a few Jack Parr episodes and I'm one of the episodes with Jonathan Winters.
Marc:And he came out and he did this very flamboyant, peculiar character.
Marc:And it was clear to see that nobody on the panel on the show knew what the hell he was going to do.
Marc:And that was what was great about him is that he would do these characters.
Marc:He would launch off into his id.
Marc:He would pull things out of his psyche that were just baffling and dark and interesting and completely in the moment.
Marc:And he he just he was hilarious because just no one knew what the fuck to expect from this guy.
Marc:And I'd had one or two encounters with him in my life.
Marc:I think I talked about one on this show where he basically got me.
Marc:I remember back in maybe 95, I was hosting a man with a mic.
Marc:I was the guy with the microphone walking around the, I believe it was the Montreal Comedy Festival for Comedy Central.
Marc:Just that guy, the guy walking around to people who people knew and sticking a mic in their face and saying, how are you liking the festival?
Marc:I'm Marc Maron from Comedy Central.
Marc:Not not proud moment for me, but nonetheless, I always enjoy talking to people.
Marc:So I had this opportunity to to talk to Jonathan Winters.
Marc:It was outside of a show.
Marc:And I just talked to Dick Cavett, who's a little kooky.
Marc:And Cavett is a huge Jonathan Winters fan.
Marc:And Cavett and Cavett was in sort of a manic episode at that time.
Marc:I don't I don't think it's talking out of school to say that Dick Cavett's a bit bipolar.
Marc:But I just interviewed Cavett and then Jonathan Winters walks up and Dick Cavett loves Jonathan Winters.
Marc:So he goes up to the sound guy who's holding the he's got the headphones.
Marc:Cavett takes the sound guy's headphones and puts them on as I'm about to interview Jonathan Winters outside.
Marc:And he's cackling.
Marc:Cavett is cackling and Jonathan Winters hasn't said anything.
Marc:And I'm trying to be respectful.
Marc:And I walk up to Jonathan and I said, so you having a good time at the festival?
Marc:And Jonathan was like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's a great, great festival.
Marc:And I said, well, have you seen any new comedians that have made an impact on you or that you liked?
Marc:And he said, well, you know, I haven't really been able to get out.
Marc:You know, the wife's back at the hotel.
Marc:She's a little sick and sick.
Marc:And I was, you know, locked in and I just said, wow, I'm really, I'm sorry to hear that.
Marc:And he looks at me and goes, yeah, you know, I shouldn't, I shouldn't fly her in air cargo.
Marc:I mean, you know, there are animals down there and it's just not the right thing to do.
Marc:And Cabbage is cackling and I, you know, I was sucked in because I thought he was being honest and it was...
Marc:But there's such an organic, real element to all the characters he does.
Marc:And they're all coming from some sort of reservoir of darkness and inspiration that I can't even explain.
Marc:So I'm driving up to Santa Barbara to talk to Jonathan Winters.
Marc:and i don't know what i'm going to talk to him about and i didn't think i would have much trouble talking but i do know that he's 85 and i've got a friend who's a friend of his and said that uh you know some days are better than others uh you know i've known that jonathan winters uh um has a manic depression you know he was a you know he's been sober for many years he's he's had events in his life where he was in where he was hospitalized for his mental problems uh and and before i went up there
Marc:My friend Ryan Singer and I had found an old Jonathan Winters album from I think it was from the 60s called The Wonderful World of Jonathan Winters on vinyl.
Marc:And we were sitting here in my house and we put this album on and we were we were hysterical because he was talking about being in a mental institution.
Marc:And a lot of people think that, you know, these guys from this generation didn't talk about the things that they were going through or didn't do real comedy.
Marc:But he was doing comedy.
Marc:Very real comedy.
Marc:And he was able to people a stage, as they call it.
Marc:There's a few guys that can do that.
Marc:Lenny did it.
Marc:Richard Pryor could do it.
Marc:Bill Cosby could do it.
Marc:You had a guy who could do several different characters and have them talking to each other through voice.
Marc:And he just characterizes time he spent in a mental institution locked down.
Marc:And it was hilarious and real and completely honest.
Marc:And I was I was amazed because it's timeless and nobody really listens to him anymore.
Marc:And when I talked to him on the phone setting up this interview and he was telling me stories on the phone, he was on and he was doing his shtick.
Marc:But there was such an it was so organic and it was so lengthy that this is a guy that did comedy in a time where people could listen, where they had attention spans.
Marc:And you didn't really know where he was going with it.
Marc:And then you were sort of there was moments where I'm like, oh, man, he's drifting.
Marc:Is he going to pull this around?
Marc:And then, you know, five minutes into a bit, bang, he pulls it around, ties it all up.
Marc:And it was like time travel.
Marc:Just the cadence of Jonathan Winters was time travel.
Marc:And when I got to his house, it's just him alone up in this big house in Santa Barbara.
Marc:He's got a nurse that stays with him there during the day.
Marc:And he was sitting there.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I think the sound quality should be fine.
Marc:I do have people hold their microphone when I interview them.
Marc:And he is 85, and he had a little hard time keeping it near his mouth.
Marc:But I think we're going to be okay with that.
Marc:But I just want to try to capture something that was very touching to me.
Marc:We talked for about an hour.
Marc:I had the conversation that I could with him, and then we went to eat lunch because it was time for him to eat.
Marc:But his house is filled with little things that he clearly is one of these collectors where just little objects, rocks, certain types of animals.
Marc:It's just not cluttered.
Marc:Everything is beautiful and clean and set up in a way, but he clearly holds on to things, and he likes to have a lot of little things.
Marc:And after the interview...
Marc:He says, come here, I want to show you something.
Marc:And we walk down the hallway.
Marc:His bedroom is now moved into a living room area, which I think people do when they get older.
Marc:And he says, you've got to see this.
Marc:And all along this hallway are pictures of him in different times, with different actors, of him and the Marines, of him as a boy.
Marc:And as we're walking down the hallway, he points to one picture.
Marc:And it's a picture of a dog as a little boy.
Marc:And he's just like, I love that dog.
Marc:And it was so raw and so young.
Marc:And so, you know, I could tap into that.
Marc:But then we walk into this room where he sleeps and there's a four post bed in the middle of this giant room.
Marc:And all over the ceiling, there's got to be 50 or 60 model airplanes hanging from the ceiling.
Marc:And he's like, these are my planes.
Marc:They're great, right?
Marc:They're just, isn't it great?
Marc:And it was so pure.
Marc:And so it was almost, I just, just to picture him sitting, you know, laying in that bed, just looking at these airplanes.
Marc:It was so young.
Marc:And so that there was part of himself that he held onto and that he's always held onto.
Marc:That is so young.
Marc:And everything else is just stacked on top of that.
Marc:But the momentum of his comedy is so exuberant and, and, uh,
Marc:and and and just visionary because he lives in it in that moment and i i don't know i don't know what to tell you but it was uh it was really an amazing conversation for me to have and i hope you enjoyed so let's listen to uh to jonathan winters
Marc:So I drove up here and listening to regular radio coming out of L.A.
Marc:and somewhere about 60 miles out, it turned into a Christian station.
Marc:So if I was in the car 10 more minutes, it would have been a different conversation.
Marc:Yes, it would have.
Marc:A missionary conversation.
Marc:Well.
Guest:We avoided that one.
Guest:People have said to me on occasion, which is maybe too often times, but how old are you?
Guest:And I said,
Guest:How old do you want me to be?
Guest:How old do I look?
Guest:Which is always a dangerous thing to say.
Guest:I'm 85.
Guest:Oh my gosh.
Guest:You're 85.
Guest:Don't repeat it if you can help it.
Guest:i'm in overtime yeah i had a hell of a first half and uh first quarter and second and third fourth was interesting uh begin to get you know it's just like a flashlight that the light is getting a little dimmer but uh i'm very happy to have come this far and um
Guest:However, the stadium's empty, and the coach turned out to be different.
Guest:He's a cross-dresser.
Guest:And then the cheerleaders are basically guys that were on honor farms, but look cute at the game.
Guest:My car is being taken by another minority.
Guest:We won't get into that because I don't want letters.
Guest:or I would be hurt by them, but they're dismantling my car.
Guest:I can't do anything because I have bad arthritis, so I can't get to them in time.
Guest:That's why I'm looking forward to eventually carrying a weapon of some kind, preferably just a handgun.
Guest:I don't really endorse semi-automatic weapons unless you're in Iraq or Libya.
Guest:When you were in the Marines, where were you?
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:Yes, I do, of course.
Guest:I went in at 17.
Guest:The Japanese were way down on the list at Pearl Harbor.
Guest:I didn't get along with either parent.
Guest:They were divorced, and that didn't seem to matter.
Guest:They didn't like me.
Guest:I often thought of a title for one of the books I was going to write.
Guest:It was called
Guest:I live in the House of Correction because everything, you're not going downtown like this.
Guest:Yeah, why?
Guest:Well, you just draw attention to yourself.
Guest:Well, I'm not getting any here.
Guest:My mother said I was in the Naval Hospital for six months during the war, and she came on.
Guest:They thought I was going to die, and I guess that was a good reason for her to see me.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:At any rate, she came in with my stepfather, and I pulled the sheets away from the bed, and she said, Well, it looks like you're going to make it.
Guest:And I said, Well, thank you.
Guest:It's good to see you, Mom.
Guest:Joe is my stepfather, a great guy, by the way.
Guest:And better than the other two, dad or mom.
Guest:But I said, Mother, I don't know anybody in Philadelphia.
Guest:And I said, could you stay on a couple of days?
Guest:And she said, I always remember very much a show business person.
Guest:She had her own radio show, and she let you know that.
Guest:And she said, I have a show to do.
Guest:I said, oh, I see.
Guest:Well, if you could just, no, I haven't, anybody can replace me.
Guest:I have a show, and we're going, now that you're going to be all right, this is what the doctor said, I'll see you after the war.
Guest:Which I thought was an unusual saying, I'll see you after the war.
Guest:Because then, once I got well, and off, out of Philadelphia, I went overseas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:that's another story i was on an aircraft carrier the bonham richard which c v thirty one there were some seventy-five marines aboard people often wonder why there were marines we took care of the magazine which means not life or time
Guest:That means small weapons.
Guest:And in case the old man went berserk, the admiral or whatever captain, then we took over until we got somebody that was right.
Guest:Was that a possibility?
Guest:And that was always a possibility, but it didn't happen to my knowledge.
Guest:There was never an incident during the war where the Marines took over.
Guest:But they weren't exactly loved because we carried small arms.
Guest:uh when we were on duty and uh and when they were swabbies went ashore they would always you know they'd check us over to check them over why did they think the marines were nuts well a lot of marines were strange myself included a few good men yeah that's what it says a few good men and uh usmc uncle sam's miserable children yeah
Guest:But I enjoyed the Marines.
Guest:I only made corporal, but that's okay.
Guest:Was it a way to get out of your parents' house?
Guest:Yeah, they had to sign.
Guest:They were eager to sign.
Guest:I never saw two people sign papers so fast.
Guest:Now they'll turn you around.
Guest:A lot of love there.
Guest:When I came home, it's interesting, I wrote a book later on, after I got married, called Winter's Tales, which are little stories that are mostly made up.
Guest:some of them had elements of truth one was i wrote about my mother when i came home and i have almost total recall it can work for you and against you but for the most part it's worked for me and i
Guest:this is springfield ohio i was born in dayton but when i got divorced i moved from dayton to springfield with my grandmother and my mother and went to the house and she said automatically there was no welcome home and you made it
Guest:How long are we going to be in the uniform?
Guest:Well, I was in it for almost three years.
Guest:Just as soon as I get a chance, I'll change it, okay?
Guest:See if something fits that's upstairs, if there's anything left in my closet.
Guest:Well, there's a lot of work to be done around here.
Guest:Your stepfather, you know, as Slim, is out in the garden and working, and you could get out there and help him now.
Guest:Well, let me get out of this uniform, otherwise there might be a Japanese guy on the hill or something, or maybe an army man shoot at me while I'm shucking corn.
Guest:This way I'll have to get in my regular clothes.
Guest:So at any rate, I'm going up in the attic.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Why are you going in the attic?
Guest:Well, that's where my little trunk was with my goodies in.
Guest:In the trunk, I had some soldiers that I had when I was a kid.
Guest:I had a Shakespeare fishing reel.
Guest:I had some marbles.
Guest:I had a 20-gauge shotgun or something.
Guest:At any rate, a lot of toy cars, iron cars, that at that time were a dollar apiece.
Guest:Today, in mint condition, the same cars, arcades and cantons, can be upwards of well over $1,200, believe it or not.
Guest:Did you save them?
Guest:No.
Guest:They were gone.
Guest:And I said to my mother, oh, boy, will I remember this.
Guest:What happened to my cars and things like that?
Guest:Well, aren't you a little old to be getting down at 20 years of age to get down on the Persian rug and play with cars?
Guest:There's a lot of work to be done around here.
Guest:It's such a joy to be home.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Well, I knew they were never Nazis and sort of hated Hitler, but I think certainly not my stepfather because he was a great guy, but I think she cheered when the Audubon was finished.
Guest:At any rate, what happened to my cars and things?
Guest:And she said,
Guest:We gave them the mission.
Guest:And I said, that's okay, but you should have notified me.
Guest:There's some things that I wanted to keep.
Guest:And she said, quote, how did we know you're going to live?
Guest:I said, should have put a star in the window when I left.
Guest:But that was the kind of folks I grew up with.
Guest:It's tough to really give them any more than a chapter in my autobiography because I don't think a lot of people would believe it.
Guest:Verbally, they were on me constantly.
Guest:Your dad too?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And it just never let up.
Guest:So it was a long and strange warped relationship with these two people.
Marc:And your father was, I remember we talked on the phone, he was a drinker, huh?
Guest:He was not, yeah, he was an alcoholic.
Guest:He quit when the war broke out, World War II.
Guest:Never had a drink after that.
Guest:But became one of the meanest white men I've ever known.
Guest:He remarried a hateful white woman, so they were an ideal couple, and lived down in Florida.
Guest:I was always going to send them an alligator and see if he could make it up the stairs and go at them, but I'm too much of a...
Guest:closet Christian to do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So how did you come about to start?
Marc:When you were younger, did you find yourself trying to get away from them in your head?
Guest:Yeah, naturally, I...
Guest:I just didn't know where to go.
Guest:I've always been a dreamer and a romanticist.
Guest:Sounds a little strange to some people, but I was.
Guest:I went to a lot of movies as a kid.
Guest:I didn't think that I'd ever be in movies.
Guest:I certainly wanted to be.
Guest:Saw a lot of hop-along cast.
Guest:He finally met him in Paris.
Guest:When I turned 31, worked for Monitor for NBC.
Guest:My wife and I went over on the United States to...
Guest:to europe and to england and uh i met him in paris and i i was so shy i i didn't want to bug him but i thought mr boyd bill boyd william boyd and i said god hop along i saw him religiously every saturday all day long yeah i didn't get an autograph it's always bothered me but i just i couldn't do it i
Guest:Did he have anything to say to you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I don't think that he knew me.
Guest:I introduced myself.
Guest:He's a very, very wonderful guy.
Guest:He and his wife.
Guest:We went down to the bar and had a couple of shooters.
Guest:He was a very, very nice man.
Guest:Truly a great Western actor.
Guest:One of the best to me, Gary Cooper.
Guest:Later on, Clint Eastwood and those guys, Henry Fonda.
Guest:Hoppy was a great guy.
Guest:I saw a guy on a horse driving up here.
Guest:Oh, did you?
Guest:Yeah, just sitting in the street.
Guest:I'm like, where the hell am I going?
Guest:A guy on a horse.
Guest:Well, who knows?
Guest:This is a strange area here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So you started in, how did the idea to become a stand-up happen?
Guest:Well, I tell you, I started doing a little bit of stand-up in Springfield in high school, paid off usually on hamburgers or any kind of money.
Guest:And
Guest:I did about five or ten minutes in little local pubs, you know.
Guest:Guys knew me.
Guest:I was a character in high school.
Guest:But my real stand-up started, believe it or not, was on a carrier.
Guest:And there were...
Guest:I guess I just turned 19 and a naval officer came down and he said, you're a marine and we need a marine to come up here and do an act for us of some kind or another.
Guest:You're always kidding around with us.
Guest:character and no comedy.
Guest:I said, there are 2,000 sailors.
Guest:My God.
Guest:Are you kidding?
Guest:They're going to boo me when I come out.
Guest:No, they're not.
Guest:It's according to what you do.
Guest:Just get up there and you got some kind of... I didn't really have an act together.
Guest:I did sound effects.
Guest:I did Indianapolis Raceway and sounds of cars and
Guest:And then impressions of movie stars who were attending the speedway and stuff.
Guest:But long story short, there were 2,000 on the hangar deck.
Guest:And I got up and did this.
Guest:And something happened.
Guest:I thought, wow, man, maybe I have something that...
Guest:Something I could use later on to get out of the service.
Guest:Maybe I should go in show business.
Guest:But I thought, no, this is just some lucky thing.
Guest:So that was the only show I did in the service.
Guest:And I came out.
Guest:And I went to college for a year and I took dramatics at Kenyon, a small school in Ohio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did stand up there and improv.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the guy was Professor Black, and he said, Winters, you've got it.
Guest:Not that many people ever believed in me.
Guest:But Dr. Black said at college, I don't care what you do, you ought to think about show business because you're a natural.
Guest:And this thing, you stand up and you do these stories, just come out of your gourd, man.
Guest:I've never seen anything like this.
Marc:So he knew you were special.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I began to think, maybe I'm still kind of mixed up.
Guest:I got married, and my wife graduated from Ohio State with a master's degree in art.
Guest:And I was at an art museum in Dayton.
Guest:And she said, I think your art's all right.
Marc:You were a painter?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she said,
Guest:You know, you're funny.
Guest:You're one of the funniest guys I've ever met.
Guest:Why don't you go down to the Colonial Theater?
Guest:They're giving away a watch.
Guest:And I said, okay.
Guest:By this time, I put together a little more with my act, not much.
Marc:Characters?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I went down and won the watch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I got a call from two guys, Charlie Reeder and Jack Weinberetta.
Guest:We're a team on radio at WING in Dayton, where I was.
Guest:And they said, how would you like to be our morning man, our DJ?
Guest:And I said, my God, man, I know Matt King Cole, and I know Oscar Peterson, I know Count Basie, and this and that, and Frank Sinatra, but what do I do?
Guest:Just a time and temperature.
Guest:That's all you have to do, time and temperature.
Guest:Tell the time, temperature, and put on that coal and fill out the log.
Guest:I see.
Guest:About the third day, I started to interview myself.
Guest:There weren't any guests coming into Dayton, Ohio, 6 o'clock in the morning, any importance.
Guest:So I said, here's Sir Edmund Bygraves, who's flown a secret aircraft in the right field and was kind enough to
Guest:contact me.
Guest:I don't know how, sir, but welcome.
Guest:I have a couple of donuts and hot cocoa.
Guest:What was your flight like?
Guest:It was very treacherous.
Guest:It was a tremendous amount of turbulence.
Guest:And of course, flying a secret aircraft, I had reason to believe that I was being followed by Russians or Chinese, and I wasn't.
Guest:As a matter of fact, I wasn't followed by no one except some birds, white birds, seagulls, I think, not pelicans.
Guest:And then, well, tell us, when you flew over Dayton at night, I thought that description before you came on the microphone was different.
Guest:What was Dayton, Ohio like at night?
Guest:Dayton, Ohio.
Guest:You know, I've flown over Rome and Paris, Kenya, Singapore, Shanghai, and parts of Arabia.
Guest:You know, flying over Dayton was like flying over a tremendous black velvet carpet, little diamonds over it.
Guest:I've seen the switchboard light up we got a thousand calls in an hour who is this clown well then the manager of the station came up a man called Art Carnes and he said who the hell are you interviewing I told you time and temperature and I said
Guest:I'm interviewing myself.
Guest:Get over it.
Guest:Just play in that code.
Guest:No more guests.
Guest:Well, and of course I did try some more guests.
Guest:And that was the end of that career there.
Guest:You had to though, right?
Guest:I had to.
Guest:It felt too good, right?
Guest:It felt good.
Guest:I did a year there.
Guest:Then I went to Columbus.
Guest:Ohio.
Marc:You liked the radio, though, right?
Marc:Do you think that helped you with it?
Marc:Because when I was on radio, you got a lot of freedom.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Just you and the mic.
Guest:Well, it's an imagination, too.
Guest:You get to play people and you wonder what the guy looks like.
Guest:Who is he talking to?
Guest:And radio, I grew up with Jack Armstrong.
Guest:And we all, I mean, at 85, you can imagine it was...
Guest:Jack Armstrong, Don Winslow of the Navy, the Mummers, Orphan Annie, Amos Nandy.
Guest:All in your head.
Guest:Yeah, and I loved radio.
Guest:I still do.
Guest:Because...
Guest:It's a chance, again, as I say in repetition, but to use your imagination of what's going on.
Guest:Especially when you're seeing or listening to the guy who's doing stand-up.
Guest:I said something in my book, which of course endeared me to writers.
Guest:I write.
Guest:Sometimes it gets a little sensitive.
Guest:The greatest contribution of sitcom writers on television is canned laughter.
Guest:Ooh, boy, that makes a lot of enemies.
Guest:But it's true.
Guest:I mean, I was told over my career.
Guest:Look, if it doesn't work, we'll sweeten it, meaning canned laughter.
Guest:Just get back to the lines, Winters, okay?
Guest:Yeah, your stuff is a little further out.
Guest:Maybe a little too smart for the room.
Guest:Yeah, especially this one.
Guest:You got that a lot, that you were too smart for the room?
Guest:Well, I got a lot.
Guest:I'll tell you what I got a lot.
Guest:I'm still getting it.
Guest:Excuse me, at 85.
Guest:I didn't get it in Ohio.
Guest:I really don't know why.
Guest:Maybe it was the time.
Guest:I got it in New York.
Guest:When did you go to New York?
Guest:I went to New York in 53.
Guest:I got it in New York and I got it in California and I've been getting it now.
Guest:And that is this.
Guest:Not that I'm any magic Christian.
Guest:I happen to be a Christian, but I'm certainly not a kook about it in my faith.
Guest:I don't bug people about it.
Guest:I don't lecture, tell them, you better be this or you better be that.
Guest:I've often said, we're all visitors.
Guest:We're just passing through.
Guest:Don't blow the visit.
Guest:I'm not a preacher.
Guest:I'm not a deacon, priest, rabbi.
Guest:I can only say that my comedy has always been clean.
Guest:It's not that I didn't understand money, Bruce.
Guest:Richard Pryor, Murphy, Robin, all these guys.
Guest:But I decided to work clean.
Guest:I know you can be funny without being dirty.
Guest:You can be risque, blue, naughty, dirty.
Guest:But what I'm coming to is people will say over and again, producers, directors, writers, when you're looking at this script, which has got a lot of crap, you know, say, are you reborn?
Guest:Oh, I got it the first time.
Guest:You don't have to dip in a river.
Guest:I know you can be funny without being dirty.
Guest:I'll give you an example.
Guest:Johnny would come in.
Guest:This is the difference between Johnny Leno and Letterman and the rest of these guys.
Guest:Johnny would come in by himself.
Guest:without writers when you're waiting to go on that yeah johnny carson and he i had a reputation yeah he didn't have to worry about me being political he didn't have to worry about me being dirty yeah or controversy or getting into racial stuff johnny would come in carson and he would say what do you want to talk about tonight that's simple yeah well at that time my dad was drinking and we were on a farm in dayton outside dayton
Guest:He was trying to sell the farm.
Guest:It had about 600 acres and it was a cold winter day.
Guest:I guess I was every bit of 12.
Guest:A guy called Mr. Simmons, for the sake of the name, trying to negotiate with my dad.
Guest:Hung over, not drinking at the time, but hung over.
Guest:Here are the papers.
Guest:I ran in just before they signed the papers and said, Dad, the cows are dead.
Guest:And then Johnny said, save it, and we'll talk about it when we get out there on the air.
Guest:So this is what we talked about.
Guest:And I said to my dad and Mr. Simmons, the cows are dead.
Guest:No, the cows aren't dead.
Guest:They're sleeping.
Guest:Sleeping?
Guest:36 of them sleeping?
Guest:And as cold as it is, Dad, they're dead.
Guest:Mr. Simmons says, kid, let's go out and look.
Guest:So I went out and he said, the cows are dead.
Guest:My dad said, well, the milk is still good.
Guest:Well, Mr. Simmons said, I'm backing off from signing any papers.
Guest:Cows are dead.
Guest:The milk's no good.
Guest:I'm out of here.
Guest:So he left.
Guest:My dad now decided he needed a drink, actually, because he blew the sail and I blew it.
Guest:I thought he was going to do a number on me.
Guest:He was coming in a bad time, kid, a very bad time.
Guest:At that time, he had a raccoon coat.
Guest:This was in the 30s, so that...
Guest:A lot of guys had raccoon coats, and he climbed up in a tree in the raccoon coat, and he was just about ready to reach for a bottle, and Mr. McCutcheon, a fellow farmer, came around with a shotgun and shot my dad.
Guest:My dad fell back into the snow.
Guest:Of course, he wasn't dead.
Guest:A lot of pellets in his back, or BBs.
Guest:But I said, Mr. McCutcheon, you shot my dad.
Guest:He was a rural man, somewhat of a redneck.
Guest:He said, boy, I tell you, I seen what I thought was the biggest coon I ever seen.
Guest:I had to shoot it.
Marc:but that's the kind of stuff that um i would talk about well i saw you i i remember seeing a couple of episodes i went to uh the museum of broadcasting yeah looking up the jack parr show and then just seeing you get out there and uh and everybody just was like well what's john gonna do yeah and and a lot of times you did you always know what you were gonna do
Marc:How does it start?
Marc:Does it start with the beginning?
Marc:You knew the character?
Marc:Because one thing I've noticed about your work in that you create these characters, but they all have a lot of heart to them, and you don't abuse your characters.
Marc:They all have a lot of empathy, and you're able to speak in all types of different points of view.
Marc:But all of them are, you really love the characters.
Marc:They seem like your friends.
Marc:And these are based on people you knew?
Marc:Some of them, yeah.
Marc:And when you do something like Parr, you did something like, I mean, you knew all these guys.
Marc:So you were in New York in 1953.
Marc:Who were the guys that were around?
Marc:Who were you guys that you hung out with?
Guest:Well, I knew Kearney.
Guest:Kearney hung out somewhat with Art.
Guest:Did he start as a stand-up?
Guest:He started, yeah, on radio.
Guest:He was with Horace Height.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he did impressions.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Impersonation.
Guest:Funny guy?
Guest:Funny guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Great guy.
Guest:I hung out with a lot of artists too.
Guest:Painters?
Guest:Painters.
Guest:Did you know like Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce?
Guest:No, I knew Lenny.
Guest:He was a big fan of yours.
Guest:Yeah, I played Chicago.
Guest:I was at the Black Orchid and he would be at the Maryland.
Guest:So we, you know, after eight children into him.
Guest:You feel like you influenced him?
Guest:No, I say influence.
Guest:I think Lenny had his own thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He really was.
Guest:Bob Newhart, I didn't run with him, but I knew he was in Chicago at the time.
Guest:Tell you a guy I ran around with was Lord Buckley.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:Let's see, a lot of people don't know him.
Guest:What a character, huh?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I could see you guys.
Guest:Great stuff.
Guest:That must have been nonstop, too.
Guest:Are you guys sitting there?
Guest:Oh, great stuff.
Guest:He had such a commitment to language.
Guest:Oh, oh.
Guest:Nice guy.
Guest:Great, and so far out, man.
Guest:But in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When you say far out, it's just sort of interesting, because you come from a pretty Midwestern background, troubled childhood, and there you are at the cutting edge of what was changing from clowns and comedians to stand-up.
Marc:Now, did you just take to that?
Marc:I mean, was there any part of you that thought, who the hell are these guys?
Guest:Well, I'm not a joke guy.
Guest:Not that I didn't admire joke guys.
Right.
Guest:I knew that Benny and Hope and all these guys had made their living at telling jokes, and that's okay.
Guest:It just wasn't my thing.
Guest:I wanted to be different.
Guest:I wanted to be different in my artwork, which I was.
Marc:So you were an artist at heart all the way through.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You never saw yourself as a guy.
Guest:I never said goodbye to my art.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, you're still painting, huh?
Guest:I'm still painting, and I still draw.
Guest:I'm doing more colored pencil drawings today.
Guest:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Guest:But it's great therapy for me, too.
Guest:I lost my wife two years ago, and it's a bit of a, anybody that's lost a wife, a husband, a child, a brother, sister, it's a pull.
Guest:Because I'm pretty much all alone.
Guest:I appear with my daughter, not that far away from me or my boy, but I'm pretty much on my own.
Guest:And not a crybaby, but...
Guest:Art, well, you can understand.
Guest:The great thing about art, with television and with movies,
Guest:it's like if you're that's why i think i chose improv because you're free free to do what you want to do now you may suffer from it and you may not be commercial yeah but it's you and you edit your stuff yourself and you go in your own direction and say what you want to say yeah and you may
Guest:You may, you know, again, it may go over, it may not.
Guest:You're taking chances.
Guest:But it's a fun, in the long pole, it's worth it.
Guest:Because it's you, not somebody else.
Guest:Not the other guy can't.
Guest:People say, I can't write for you.
Guest:That's all right.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:Or four or five guys want to write for you.
Guest:This is you.
Marc:And there's immediacy to it.
Marc:It's not just about... Jokes are like math problems.
Marc:You know, A plus B equals laugh.
Marc:Look, that one worked.
Marc:But when you're out there on the wire and you're pushing it... Now, how much do you think that had to do... Because it seems to me that you battle a certain amount of darkness and you always have.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And I think that when you improvise and you lose yourself in character, you get out of the dark.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think...
Guest:With my art, you see, again, there's a certain freedom.
Guest:You can paint what you want to paint, do what you want to do.
Guest:There's nobody there to grade you and paint for you, write for you.
Marc:perform for you if it sells it's a bonus right but that's the risk that's the risk now because i listened to something recently i i'm trying to remember you know which record it was i think it was your third record uh and you i was amazed by it because literally a few weeks ago my buddy ryan picked it up at a in a record bin
Marc:And I add a few of the, I have a couple of the records of yours, the one with the campaign.
Marc:But this one, literally, you opened with talking about being in the institution.
Marc:And you somehow or another created a world around your time spent in the institution that was hilarious.
Marc:And no one in the room was saying, this guy's crazy.
Marc:Now, what led to the time, because there's a lot of rumors around that you went nuts and you climbed up the mast of a ship.
Marc:Didn't do that.
Marc:How did that get started?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's been something that's haunted me all my life.
Guest:What year was that?
Guest:60?
Guest:59?
Guest:59.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went down there.
Guest:In San Francisco.
Guest:In San Francisco.
Guest:And it was a Balclutha, three-masted old schooner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I walked up to the guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember exactly what happened.
Guest:I was in the middle of a breakdown, no question about that.
Guest:How do you know when you're in the middle of a breakdown?
Guest:Well, you begin to hallucinate and seeing things that, and not boozing, I wasn't drinking.
Marc:How long have you been sober?
Marc:You're already sober then?
Guest:52 years.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When did you stop drinking?
Marc:I was 31 when I quit.
Marc:I was 58.
Marc:No kidding?
Marc:And you were already working as a comic?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was just taking a toll on you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, I think it was my mother and my dad.
Guest:I was looking for that stamp of approval.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I never got it.
Guest:Got to me.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:So I ended up, but going back to San Francisco, I went up to the guy that sold tickets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, give me a ticket to go aboard the Balacruza.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the guy said, okay.
Guest:And I said, what you need is a tri-cornered hat.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And maybe a parrot for your shoulder.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I said, you've got to have maybe twin heaven roots kick this thing over, and you'll be out there and see you in no time.
Guest:So then I went over and sat on a flat car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A guy called Harbor Police.
Guest:Next thing, they shift me around, put bracelets on me.
Guest:They say, what the hell's happening here?
Guest:You're going to psychiatric warden.
Guest:Only because I put this guy on, see.
Guest:That's the thing.
Marc:So he was a small guy, and you got pissed off, and he called you, and he knew who you were.
Marc:Were you already a star?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if the guy knew, you see.
Guest:But he figured I was on drugs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Anything you do that's least different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, if I walk out now and say, the sky is full of dirigibles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, gosh, I wonder where they're from.
Guest:Well, you say that to the wrong guy, you're gone.
Guest:Not everybody has a sense of humor.
Guest:But at any rate, they took me up, slapped me in there, and my wife flew out from the east.
Marc:This is the first time?
Guest:But I never went up the uh.
Guest:First time, I never went up in the mast.
Guest:Someone put that in, I don't know what it was.
Guest:I have a feeling I was a guy, but I can't prove it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But all I know is there's no picture of me in the mass.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's funny that there's this specific thing that, you know, you did go to the hospital.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But the one thing that's a spectacular event that didn't happen, it pisses you off.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you wish you would have done it?
Guest:No, no, I don't think so.
Guest:I didn't need that kind of publicity.
Guest:But two years later, it cracked.
Guest:And then I went to Hartford, and I was there eight months.
Marc:How long were you in the first time?
Marc:Two weeks.
Marc:Okay, so that was just observation.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then what brought on the second time?
Guest:It's hard to say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm still, I think, haunted by what had happened with the ship, the thing that I didn't do this, and back to the parents again.
Guest:A combination of all that stuff.
Guest:When I did my interesting thing about going to Hartford,
Guest:When I went there, they hit me with three things.
Guest:They hit me, you know, drugs for like no more than 72 hours with Thorazine and Stelazine, which are heavy.
Guest:Numb you.
Guest:And I'm saying, hey, I'm not a violent guy.
Guest:I got a little violent before because I got scared about going up to this place.
Guest:And a couple of guys came to take me.
Guest:The white suits?
Guest:Decked a couple of guys.
Guest:Anyway, I got up there.
Guest:And it's interesting.
Guest:For eight months, I was on nothing.
Guest:Because in those days there was no lithium, no Prozac.
Guest:And I asked the guy, the doctor, I've got to have a label here.
Guest:What's the matter?
Guest:I'm not a psychotic.
Guest:I know I'm not schizophrenic.
Guest:I'm certainly not catatomic.
Guest:Well, Jonathan, there's no sense in giving you a label because it only upsets you.
Guest:What do you mean upset me?
Guest:I'm paying money.
Guest:This is a private hospital.
Guest:I wonder what the hell's going on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I don't think they really knew.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Now, at the end of five months, a guy called my wife down in my neck and said, Jonathan's got a lot of pain in him, and we've got to eliminate some of that pain.
Guest:And she said, what are you saying?
Guest:I think we're going to have to give him shock treatment.
Guest:So I said, Doctor, what did my wife say?
Guest:Well, she said, if that's what you have to do, maybe then you should do that.
Guest:So she okayed this.
Guest:Then I did something I'd never done before.
Guest:I can honestly say as I sit here, I was frightened out of my frigging pants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I knew what shock treatment was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have almost total recall.
Guest:I go back to when I was four.
Guest:So I said to the doctor...
Guest:A legitimate question.
Guest:What are you erasing?
Guest:What period?
Guest:4 to 12?
Guest:12 to 17?
Guest:17 to 25?
Guest:Well, we don't know.
Guest:We don't know.
Guest:What we know is we've got to get rid of some of this pain.
Guest:So you don't know what period you're erasing.
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm soaked.
Guest:My hands are scared to death.
Guest:I need that pain, whatever it is.
Guest:I need that time.
Guest:So I made up a story, hoping it would work, and it did.
Guest:I said, we didn't talk about what I did in the Marines.
Guest:We should talk about that.
Guest:Okay?
Guest:I was in demolition.
Guest:It blew things up.
Guest:Yes, I still have a couple of friends that would visit you.
Guest:What do you mean, visit me?
Guest:Oh, it would be just the one visit.
Guest:That was enough.
Guest:So I didn't get shot treatment.
Guest:Oh, that's amazing.
Guest:But I got an extra three months.
Guest:And how did you make that okay?
Guest:I came home.
Guest:And April 1st, Stanley Kramer called me from Mad World.
Guest:And Eileen said, it's Mr. Stanley Kramer from Hollywood.
Guest:I'd just gotten home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, Mr. Kramer, I got to think about this thing.
Guest:Eileen said she was right.
Guest:If you don't take this film, John, you'll never work again.
Guest:And I said, Mr. Kramer, when do you need me?
Guest:get your luggage together get your family you'll be working on this thing for six months i want you out here as soon as you can make it and that was the story of coming back interesting thing for what it's worth i worked on mad world for six months forget psychiatry shrinks any kind of medication
Guest:And had no problem.
Guest:Because you were busy.
Guest:Wrapped up in the park.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was so high on working in my first picture and with this cast of people, Burl and Rooney and all of them, you know.
Guest:I couldn't wait to get to work.
Guest:Everyone was in that movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you got there, were you the kind of guy who entertained everybody?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Milton Berle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mickey Rooney.
Guest:All of them.
Guest:Dick Sean.
Guest:Yeah, Dick was.
Guest:Dick, I've always said, if you've seen him, one of the great talents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just a genius.
Guest:He's just something else.
Guest:It's a terrible thing.
Guest:Like Phil Hartman died too early.
Guest:A lot of these guys.
Guest:And, of course, Dick...
Guest:He could dance, he could sing, he was funny, actor.
Guest:He had it all.
Guest:Isn't it amazing when you're in show business, when you're right there next to him, even though you guys are friends.
Guest:I just noticed this recently.
Guest:When you're watching somebody perform in a movie or whatever, just doing stand-up, or you're on a dais with them.
Guest:Just to see that focus and to have that close a seat, if you love it, it's a great feeling to see somebody turn on that juice.
Guest:I know that a lot of people respect you for it.
Guest:I mean, Robin Williams always speaks very highly.
Guest:He's been a very nice guy to you.
Guest:Robin said, you're my mentor.
Guest:I said, don't do that.
Guest:I said, in Ohio, they think that's a salve.
Guest:Say idle.
Guest:They get that right away.
Guest:Does he still talk to you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Now, when you guys did Mork and Mindy... Yeah.
Guest:Now, when he improvises, it seems to me that when you guys do it, that you have a cast of characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you don't know necessarily what they're going to do.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is that how it works?
Guest:We stuck amazingly close to script.
Guest:On the Mork and Mindy.
Guest:And a lot of times...
Guest:You know, they cut stuff out.
Guest:Of course, I played the baby and all that.
Guest:I feel strange as a baby.
Guest:I'm big and everything.
Guest:No baby is this big.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Is it some kind of goiter thing?
Guest:Daddy, you should tell me.
Guest:You're from out there somewhere.
Guest:So somehow or another, you're the guy that remains standing.
Guest:And you have all these memories and you have this clarity of mind.
Guest:And, you know, when you sit up here, do you entertain yourself with what happened?
Guest:Do you find yourself nostalgic?
Guest:Oh, I talk to myself.
Guest:I tell people that it's not a question of playing a doctor.
Guest:It's just, to me, it makes a semblance of sense.
Guest:There's a lot of talk.
Guest:Cancer is one terrible thing.
Guest:It's hitting everybody.
Guest:Another is Alzheimer's disease.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:I don't think I'll have Alzheimer's for, who knows, but I come in 85 and should have had it by this time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have a choice.
Guest:I always tell people, don't be ashamed of it.
Guest:It's where you do it, why you do it.
Guest:As an example, if you don't drive your car, the battery dies.
Guest:So you better turn it over every once in a while.
Guest:The same thing with your gourd.
Guest:You know, you talk to yourself, Mr. Duradier, you're a...
Guest:an artist and I understand you're having a one-man show in the Museum of Modern Art.
Guest:What kind of art do you paint?
Guest:Well, I paint, I just throw the paint at the canvas and call it different things like downtown New York, Harlem, the Empire State Building, animals in a tree.
Guest:I don't see these things on the canvas.
Guest:In other words, you just sit there and do this stuff, and it gets your mind going, and then you edit again and say, well, come on, some of this is funny, but then you've got to shift to a zoo.
Guest:We have Dr. Odlinger here, Dr. Odlinger.
Guest:Excuse me, you have...
Guest:You are interested in the animals and releasing them, is that right eventually?
Guest:Yeah, I, as a kid, I enjoyed circuses and things like that and going to zoos and seeing giraffes and elephants and zebras and monkeys and girls.
Guest:But lately, I've had terrible migraine headaches about them.
Guest:Migraine headaches about them?
Guest:I'm talking about the animals.
Guest:Because they have headaches.
Guest:See a gorilla do this with his paw, you know?
Guest:He's either thinking about a banana or he's had a migraine.
Guest:I've talked with animals.
Guest:You have talked with them?
Guest:Easy.
Guest:No, you're kidding me.
Guest:No, I'm not kidding.
Guest:And you don't have to make fun of me.
Guest:I have the strength of that 700-pound gorilla.
Guest:You want to test me?
Guest:Well, what is the idea?
Guest:My idea is there to go in sometime soon with a settling torch,
Guest:and release the animals from captivity and let the elephants run through the streets and the zebras and the gorillas and monkeys and the birds and everything and free them of their terrible captivity that the public has placed them in.
Guest:Well, this could be a terrible thing.
Guest:A lot of people could be hurt.
Guest:Think how they feel.
Guest:And put an elephant in a 12 by 12 thing and throw a basket of fruit to him.
Guest:He didn't like that.
Guest:Would you like that?
Guest:No, not an elephant.
Guest:Take a look at yourself.
Guest:You're a fat pock.
Guest:Easy, easy.
Guest:I've got enough now.
Guest:All right, when do you hope to do this?
Guest:I never show my game plan.
Guest:Sometime after Memorial Day.
Guest:What's happening with your hand?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And that's how you entertain yourself.
Guest:Entertain yourself.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:How long have you been doing that?
Guest:Because you talk about this darkness that you come from.
Guest:I mean, was that always the relief?
Guest:And then when you started to do show business, you would literally just sit by yourself and run these dialogues until you found something funny by yourself, and then you bring it up there.
Marc:How did you stop the breakdowns from coming?
Marc:Because it seems to me that if you work without a net, that you could easily go back out.
Guest:Well, I...
Guest:It's a difficult thing to explain.
Guest:After the success of Mad World and then going on doing some movies,
Guest:And keep in mind, I'm married 60 years.
Guest:This gal going through being an alcoholic for 10, and then... How bad did that get?
Guest:Oh, it got bad, yeah.
Guest:Like every day shaking?
Guest:Not every day, but the road was rough, and I wanted to get home.
Guest:And I had a great gal, and then to have booze, and then to have...
Guest:But we hung in there.
Guest:We both loved each other and depended on each other.
Guest:I don't wear any medals.
Guest:If anybody gets the medals, it would be my wife.
Guest:But one thing I didn't do, I don't know how I did it, to tell you the truth.
Guest:I didn't go to the track.
Guest:I didn't get into drugs.
Guest:Got into booze.
Guest:Do you know a lot of guys that went down with the drugs?
Guest:Why?
Guest:Did you know a lot of guys that went... Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I never put us in debt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My payments are always there in the house and stuff.
Guest:And once you get any kind of a problem, alcohol or drugs, they go there.
Guest:Lots of bills.
Guest:And the next thing, you know, you're gone.
Guest:But I... I was sick.
Guest:And...
Guest:I was sick when I, that's when I quit drinking.
Guest:I just, I went to AA and I went like seven days a week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I do believe this.
Guest:It's a strange thing to say.
Guest:Not always true, but it's very hard to find a competent psychiatrist, man or woman, to treat you of your problems.
Guest:Because they don't know.
Guest:They don't know.
Guest:The other thing is this.
Guest:It's a harsh statement and a lot of those shrinks would jump on my butt right away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't think the bulk of them, not all of them, are that dedicated.
Guest:They don't want to get you well, man.
Guest:Otherwise, they don't get the flat in London or the trip around the world.
Guest:If they get you on your feet in six months, they're out of work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think that's probably true.
Guest:And people go every week, day in and day out, Doc, what's the matter with you?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm depressed all the time.
Guest:Stop crying.
Guest:Stop crying.
Guest:Can you do that now?
Guest:You cry every time you come here to the office.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'll try.
Guest:Stop it.
Guest:Why do you think you cry?
Guest:I'm unhappy.
Guest:It's an unhappy world.
Guest:Take a look at it.
Guest:Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, China, Philippines, here.
Guest:It's an unhappy world.
Guest:Not everybody's happy.
Guest:There are some happy people.
Guest:I'm happy.
Guest:I'm here to try to make you happy.
Guest:What would make you happy?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You know, you're 47 years old.
Guest:You're living off a trust fund.
Guest:Why don't you think of finding a job of some kind?
Guest:Streets in cleaner, a guy in a hallway, a dormant, something.
Guest:What is your contribution?
Guest:Other than crying.
Guest:You made me cry again.
Guest:All right, stop it.
Guest:I'll get something.
Guest:Try Monday.
Guest:Monday, Monday.
Guest:How many Mondays?
Guest:Five years have been coming to me.
Guest:Now, you called me last night.
Guest:You're listening?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You know what time it was?
Guest:2.30 in the morning.
Guest:said you were going to kill yourself.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why didn't you kill yourself?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm going to tell you.
Guest:Don't you ever call me at 2.30 in the morning.
Guest:If you call me, I want to hear a bang.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:or some kind of scream.
Guest:Now, here's a list of ways to kill yourself.
Guest:There's a revolver with six shells in it.
Guest:Knock that in, put it in your mouth.
Guest:Ooh, ooh, there you go.
Guest:Pull the trigger and chances are you're going to go.
Guest:Your garage where your father and mother have a garage, go down there, turn on some music and shut the doors and
Guest:You'll go out that way.
Guest:Drive the car off a cliff.
Guest:On fire in seconds.
Guest:Pills.
Guest:OD.
Guest:These are cyclopropane.
Guest:50.
Guest:Out.
Guest:Bye-bye.
Guest:Oh, you're endorsing my death.
Guest:You know, 46 years old.
Guest:Let's go back to that.
Guest:You haven't done anything except sit on a white seat and take a dump.
Guest:What did you think of all I'd do?
Guest:So far, a minute before you came in here to get the seat, they told me, I'm not considerate about a BM.
Guest:That's what you've got in your gourd.
Guest:Now are we going to find a job Monday?
Guest:What are we going to do?
Guest:Get out.
Guest:Get out.
Guest:I'll see you next Wednesday.
Guest:Stop crying.
Guest:See, to do that, oh, Jesus, I'd be arrested.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He endorses death.
Guest:That's not how they work.
Guest:But the dark side.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to do the dark side of this one.
Guest:Yeah, no, you got to.
Guest:You got to.
Guest:It's the only way to disarm it, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, you know, we opened this thing with you interviewing yourself in the fifth, in the overtime.
Guest:In the overtime.
Yeah.
Guest:And that's not how this interview went.
Guest:This was good.
Guest:Thank you, Mr. Winters.
Guest:That was Jonathan Winters.
Guest:Mr. Winters, boy.
Guest:Call me Johnny.
Guest:All right, Johnny.
Guest:I've been talking to Jonathan Winters, and he just got done talking to himself.
Guest:Okay.
Okay.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:That is my conversation with Jonathan Winters, and it was a true honor to spend that time with him and have lunch and just be in the presence of a true genius, a true comedy Buddha.
Marc:And I want to thank him, and I can't even explain how amazing that was.
Marc:Let's get one of these in.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Whoa, I just shit my pants.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, available at WTFPod.com, or you can go to JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:And please go to WTFPod.com, get on that mailing list, buy some new merch.
Marc:We've got the Cat Negotiation shirt up, we've got mugs, we've got some posters there.
Marc:And also, I want to encourage you to do this, because this is one of the only ways you can get some of the episodes if you don't get on the app.
Marc:Now, you know we have the WTF app for free on iPhone.com.
Marc:iPod Touch, iPad, and the Droid.
Marc:And you can upgrade to a premium and have access to stream every episode of WTF.
Marc:Now, as always, the most recent 50 are always free.
Marc:But if you go to WTFPodShop.com or you do a search on iTunes for WTF Premium, we've got a lot of those great episodes that are only available there if you want to download them.
Marc:We've got the Carlos Mencia episode, Robin Williams, Dane Cook, David Tell.
Marc:We've got some of the live episodes that we did at Comics that were always exclusive.
Marc:We've got Ben Stiller, Judd Apatow parts one and two, Louis C.K.
Marc:parts one and two.
Marc:We're going to be slowly putting more of those shows back up on these outlets, WTF Premium on iTunes or WTFPodShop.com.
Marc:Go to PunchlineMagazine.com for up-to-date comedy news.
Marc:And really, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you listening to the show.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm always moved, you guys.
Marc:I will be in San Antonio at LOL.
Marc:LOLs.
Marc:LOLs.
Marc:This Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, May 13th, 14th, and 15th.
Marc:I am happy to be home.
Marc:All right?
Marc:I'll talk to you later.
you