Episode 169 - Greg Fleet / Simon Munnery

Episode 169 • Released April 24, 2011 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Guest:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Guest:Really?

00:00:08Guest:Wait for it.

00:00:09Guest:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Guest:Wait for it.

00:00:12Guest:Pow!

00:00:12Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:14Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Guest:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Guest:It's time for WTF?

00:00:19Guest:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest:With Marc Maron.

00:00:24Marc:Okay, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:26Marc:What the fuck, buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What the fuck, Anucks?

00:00:29Marc:What the fuck, Australians?

00:00:31Marc:Still here.

00:00:31Marc:It's Mark Maron.

00:00:33Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:34Marc:I am still in Australia.

00:00:35Marc:It's been two weeks, almost two weeks, which is enough for me.

00:00:40Marc:It's got nothing to do with Australia.

00:00:42Marc:It's got nothing to do with how the shows have been going.

00:00:45Marc:I just need to go home.

00:00:47Marc:Is that all right?

00:00:48Marc:Is it okay if I'm not a comfortable international traveler?

00:00:51Marc:Though it has been good, but I did wake up this morning with a bit of panic, a bit of a certain shaky sense of self.

00:01:01Marc:It's sort of interesting when you're in another country, if you're there long enough,

00:01:05Marc:How I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I start to wonder who the hell am I in this world?

00:01:11Marc:I mean, it's been perfectly great.

00:01:13Marc:Australia has been fun.

00:01:14Marc:The audiences have been great, better than than most audiences, to be honest with you.

00:01:19Marc:They're sophisticated.

00:01:20Marc:They understand things in a way that that surprised me because I knew there were certain things in some of my jokes that were funny.

00:01:28Marc:And I always sort of believed that they were funny and I kept them in there because they were funny, but they never got the laugh.

00:01:35Marc:But they were just sort of clever things.

00:01:37Marc:They were on the way to the larger laugh in my mind.

00:01:39Marc:Australia, they got the laugh.

00:01:42Marc:It was reinvigorating.

00:01:44Marc:It gave me a new confidence around some of my material.

00:01:48Marc:And now I can go back to the States and have those things just sit there like they used to and always did.

00:01:54Marc:But nonetheless, I'm getting a little tweaky.

00:01:58Marc:It seems like when you're down here in Australia, two things can happen.

00:02:02Marc:Either eventually you go home or you say, you know what?

00:02:05Marc:Fuck it.

00:02:05Marc:I'm going to move here.

00:02:07Marc:And I've had that thought.

00:02:08Marc:I thought, could I live in Australia?

00:02:09Marc:Yeah, it feels great.

00:02:10Marc:Melbourne's a beautiful city.

00:02:12Marc:It's a grounded city.

00:02:13Marc:It's a real city.

00:02:14Marc:There's a lot of life to it.

00:02:17Marc:There's a lot of cool things to do here.

00:02:19Marc:It's pretty.

00:02:20Marc:Why can't I live here?

00:02:21Marc:I'm sure they have cats.

00:02:22Marc:I'm sure I could find feral cats here and maybe interesting dogs.

00:02:26Marc:I could collect them, too.

00:02:28Marc:I could probably find a great place to live, meet an Australian woman, settle down, have Jewish Australian children.

00:02:35Marc:All that could happen.

00:02:36Marc:But I don't think it's going to because I'm panicky.

00:02:38Marc:I got to get back to the house.

00:02:40Marc:I got to get back to the cat ranch.

00:02:42Marc:I had that moment this morning where I'm like, oh, do I even have a life back there anymore?

00:02:46Marc:And then it became sort of interesting to me to think about what really defines us.

00:02:50Marc:I got to be honest with you right now, what defines me seems to be a mixture of hypersensitive, neurotic anger and obsessive compulsion, a corduroy jacket, a strange mustache and a little goatee beard thing or whatever you call it, patch.

00:03:08Marc:And some glasses.

00:03:11Marc:That seems to be what defines me when it comes right down to it.

00:03:14Marc:I mean, what's on the inside is what it is.

00:03:15Marc:But I'm amazed at how important the externals become.

00:03:20Marc:I mean, I found a certain amount of comfort here.

00:03:22Marc:And the festival has been great, as I say.

00:03:24Marc:But it's weird to me that when I go somewhere else, I feel like an intruder here.

00:03:30Marc:That's a weird thing.

00:03:31Marc:Another weird thing.

00:03:32Marc:I am definitely not a colonialist sinker or an imperialist sinker.

00:03:37Marc:After I'm in a country for a couple weeks, I have the definite feeling that, you know what, they don't really want me here.

00:03:44Marc:I think I've overstayed my welcome.

00:03:47Marc:But one thing you shouldn't do when you're in Australia that I've realized just from doing it today...

00:03:53Marc:If you're feeling slightly panicky or homesick, don't Google world map.

00:03:58Marc:Holy fuck.

00:03:59Marc:I am out.

00:04:00Marc:Look where I am.

00:04:01Marc:Can you see it?

00:04:02Marc:Can you see the map?

00:04:03Marc:Australia is out there all alone by itself.

00:04:06Marc:I can't even...

00:04:08Marc:Look how much ocean I have to fly over.

00:04:10Marc:I can't even imagine that my cats are sitting over there on the coast, the west coast of the United States.

00:04:15Marc:I am way the fuck out here.

00:04:17Marc:But then there's some comfort in that.

00:04:18Marc:Maybe I should just stay here.

00:04:20Marc:If the shit goes down on a global level, this is going to be the last place it's going to go.

00:04:24Marc:My brain's gone a little nuts here.

00:04:27Marc:I'm starting to worry about shit.

00:04:29Marc:I'm starting to worry about getting everything done, about how much work I have to do, about writing a book, about the future, about whether or not there's a God.

00:04:38Marc:It happens occasionally.

00:04:40Marc:If I get in a deep enough panic and I'm trying to project everything in the future, there's all kinds of things going through my head.

00:04:47Marc:I mean, don't worry about it.

00:04:48Marc:I mean, I'm going to be all right.

00:04:51Marc:Can I just say that I've had a great time in Australia.

00:04:53Marc:Everything went well.

00:04:56Marc:Every show went well.

00:04:57Marc:I didn't get tired of me.

00:04:58Marc:I didn't get tired of my act.

00:04:59Marc:I didn't get tired of Australians.

00:05:01Marc:I did some new stuff.

00:05:02Marc:I had some good food.

00:05:04Marc:Stayed in a nice hotel.

00:05:05Marc:I didn't see any.

00:05:07Marc:I saw some of the city.

00:05:09Marc:There was only one glitch.

00:05:12Marc:I had a heckler at a show last night, and this is almost the end of my run.

00:05:17Marc:I've got two more shows.

00:05:19Marc:Last night, not even an aggressive heckler, but an annoying heckler.

00:05:23Marc:An American heckler.

00:05:25Marc:I think she meant well.

00:05:27Marc:It got a little ugly.

00:05:29Marc:Not too ugly.

00:05:31Marc:But I did use the C word.

00:05:32Marc:But you can use that here.

00:05:34Marc:It's a softer word here.

00:05:36Marc:Can I say it?

00:05:37Marc:I can say it.

00:05:38Marc:What am I doing?

00:05:38Marc:I can say cunt, right?

00:05:41Marc:Did that just invent people out of context?

00:05:44Marc:Maybe we should listen to it.

00:05:48Marc:I'm a Jew.

00:05:50Marc:Take it in.

00:05:52Marc:You have them here, right?

00:05:53Marc:There's Jews.

00:05:54Marc:We made it.

00:05:55Marc:I've asked a few times, and no Jews have really stood up for themselves.

00:05:58Marc:I just get a weird, uncomfortable laughter.

00:06:00Marc:Like, you know, like, all of you are thinking, like, yeah, but they're in the other part of town kind of thing.

00:06:05Marc:They have their neighborhood where they wear their outfits.

00:06:09Marc:So... But I'm not a Jewy Jew.

00:06:13Marc:All right?

00:06:15Marc:Watered down.

00:06:15Marc:What's that?

00:06:16Guest:Watered...

00:06:17Marc:Okay, American lady who just cannot stop being needy.

00:06:21Marc:I, um... And you came to see me?

00:06:28Marc:Am I your idea of America?

00:06:33Marc:I had to come here to do comedy.

00:06:41Marc:I'm sorry you're homesick.

00:06:43Marc:Well, we're all concerned now.

00:06:45Marc:and everybody knows you're homesick and and now we all know why you're lonely here oh well that was too far huh now all of a sudden i take care of some business and now you're gonna side with the americans come on what happened to the national pride we should all get together and make her cry don't you understand she wants to be in america again i'll make her be happy to be here

00:07:10Marc:Thank you for coming.

00:07:11Marc:Now shut the fuck up.

00:07:12Marc:So... I'm kidding, really.

00:07:15Marc:If you need to talk, we'll do it later for a few minutes.

00:07:19Marc:But I can already tell it's not gonna go well.

00:07:26Marc:Still homesick?

00:07:28Marc:Is my favorite color sad?

00:07:31Marc:Oh, now you're gonna try and sabotage my show?

00:07:34Marc:Is that where we're gonna go with this?

00:07:36Marc:Needy, loudmouth girl?

00:07:38Marc:What's that?

00:07:40Marc:Which one?

00:07:44Marc:Look, I'm just up here trying to pull off the cord-on-cord look.

00:07:52Marc:You know, am I sad?

00:07:55Marc:Of course I'm sad, but it should have broken apart to funny by where you are.

00:07:59Marc:I mean...

00:08:01Marc:I mean, these people up front are probably sensing a sort of sad anger to me and feel slightly drained, but three rows back is usually where it dissipates into humorous anecdotes.

00:08:13Marc:So, okay, we've established I'm sad and that you're fucking needy.

00:08:16Marc:Are we gonna stop this shit?

00:08:17Marc:All right.

00:08:20Marc:Because, like, I choose not to experience that.

00:08:22Marc:I only experience it on two levels.

00:08:23Marc:There's funny, and then there's angry and hateful.

00:08:26Marc:And that's not entertaining, the second one.

00:08:28Marc:But I'm perfectly willing to do it for you.

00:08:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:08:39Marc:Oh, so now you're being a cunt.

00:08:41Marc:All right, so...

00:08:45Marc:You persisted, and now you've shown who you really are.

00:08:51Marc:Can we stop, or are you just gonna keep doing it?

00:08:54Marc:Is there a winning here?

00:08:55Marc:Do you win somehow?

00:08:57Marc:You win.

00:08:57Marc:Okay, good.

00:08:58Marc:Thank God.

00:08:58Marc:All it took was cunt.

00:08:59Marc:It always works.

00:09:00Marc:I apologize.

00:09:06Marc:This is just like my marriage is.

00:09:08Marc:Are you single?

00:09:12Marc:That would be great if what people were witnessing here was like a first date of some kind.

00:09:17Marc:And I'd come back here next year, and it's like, we're together now.

00:09:19Marc:Remember the cunt from last year?

00:09:21Marc:I say that with love, yeah.

00:09:31Marc:because the cunt is a little freer in this part of the world.

00:09:33Marc:In America, I didn't mean it in the American way.

00:09:35Marc:I meant it in the UK, Australian way.

00:09:37Marc:It's sort of a softer cunt.

00:09:46Marc:Okay, I apologize, America.

00:09:49Marc:I didn't want that to come out.

00:09:52Marc:I just wanted to stay sad.

00:09:54Marc:So, okay, the journey here... Oh, we were going to talk about Jesus, who I need now.

00:09:59Marc:Um...

00:10:01Marc:So I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking forward to coming home, but I've had a great time.

00:10:06Marc:And today on the show, what have we got?

00:10:08Marc:We got Greg Fleet.

00:10:10Marc:He's an infamous and very funny and very well-known Australian comic.

00:10:17Marc:And I also talked to Simon Munnery.

00:10:19Marc:Simon Munnery I've been hearing about for years.

00:10:22Marc:I heard about him when I interviewed Stuart Lee in London.

00:10:25Marc:Very influential character.

00:10:27Marc:And he does a comedy that I don't always quite get.

00:10:29Marc:He's a great comic, but absurdism sometimes is lost on me.

00:10:33Marc:So I had a conversation with Simon about that and about other things.

00:10:37Marc:He's an English comic.

00:10:39Marc:So these are my guests on the show today.

00:10:42Marc:And I'm looking forward to coming home.

00:10:43Marc:Though I've had a great time in Australia.

00:10:45Marc:Don't...

00:10:46Marc:I'm okay with Australia, and I don't want to alienate Australia now.

00:11:00Guest:If an Australian walked in, I'd be like, hey, good day, yeah, hey, Mark's here.

00:11:04Guest:I'm here with Mark.

00:11:05Guest:When I'm with you, I'd say, like, Mark's here.

00:11:07Marc:No, but it's a lot of effort, though.

00:11:10Guest:No, it's actually natural.

00:11:11Guest:I slip into it.

00:11:12Guest:And then I kind of, it ends up being like someone doing a bad American accent, like a mid, like a bad Australian actor.

00:11:20Guest:Nasally.

00:11:21Guest:Kind of.

00:11:23Guest:Yeah, that's right.

00:11:25Guest:I'm a member of the NYPD, American police.

00:11:28Guest:I'm from New York.

00:11:29Guest:The Aussies are really bad, like some bad Australian actors.

00:11:34Guest:Tells me being bad.

00:11:35Marc:Could you do it well?

00:11:38Guest:Well...

00:11:38Guest:Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

00:11:40Guest:I mean, this is how I do it.

00:11:41Guest:This is how when I talk to my mother, I talk like that.

00:11:43Marc:Mother, it's a different thing.

00:11:44Guest:Like I go, hey, Mom, you know, I'm coming down there tomorrow.

00:11:48Guest:I've got to work on tonight.

00:11:50Guest:I'll be there at like 8 o'clock.

00:11:52Guest:So what does that sound like?

00:11:53Guest:I'm not sure what that sounds like.

00:11:55Guest:It's kind of somewhere in between the two.

00:11:57Guest:I think it's in between.

00:11:58Guest:Because what I did was at school, I never realized this, but at school I faked an Australian accent because I wanted to fit in.

00:12:05Guest:When I was a little kid, yeah.

00:12:07Marc:So wait, you were born in the States?

00:12:08Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:12:09Guest:I came here when I was four, five, four.

00:12:12Marc:But your parents are Australian?

00:12:13Marc:No, American.

00:12:15Marc:Both of them?

00:12:15Marc:Yeah.

00:12:17Marc:So neither one of them talk like you?

00:12:19Marc:No, they talk, you know, they're like, you know.

00:12:21Guest:Americans.

00:12:22Guest:Hey, Greg, what's happening?

00:12:23Guest:Yeah.

00:12:23Marc:Really?

00:12:24Guest:Yeah.

00:12:25Guest:Huh.

00:12:25Guest:And when I talk to them, when I talk to my mother, I talk like I'm talking now.

00:12:29Guest:I go, Mom, I'm doing an interview with Marc Maron.

00:12:32Guest:He's an American comic.

00:12:34Guest:You probably don't know him because he's Jewish, and I know you don't like Jewish people.

00:12:38Marc:Sure, yeah.

00:12:39Guest:But then when I'm with my friends, I talk like that.

00:12:41Guest:Like I go, yeah, I'm Aussie.

00:12:43Guest:I'm with Marc Maron.

00:12:45Guest:I'm doing his podcast.

00:12:47Marc:But what's easier to do?

00:12:50Marc:What's more natural?

00:12:51Marc:The Australian, right?

00:12:51Guest:The Australian's more natural when I'm with Australians.

00:12:54Guest:But when I find myself with an American or a Canadian, it starts slipping out.

00:12:58Guest:So I think my natural default position, the fakeness is... Is to be accepted by anyone you're talking to.

00:13:05Guest:Anyone who will like me.

00:13:06Please.

00:13:06Guest:That's it.

00:13:08Marc:So you're defaulted.

00:13:09Marc:Like you could be talking to a Sri Lankan.

00:13:11Guest:Oh, goodness me.

00:13:12Marc:Oh, look, I'm slipping into it already.

00:13:14Marc:Yeah, I get it.

00:13:15Marc:Sure.

00:13:16Marc:Yeah.

00:13:16Marc:Whoever will give you approval and make you feel whole in that moment is what you will adapt to.

00:13:22Marc:So why did your parents leave America?

00:13:25Guest:My father worked for Ford as a designer with the Ford Motor Company.

00:13:30Guest:And at that stage in Australia, Australians...

00:13:34Guest:have only recently started trusting their own.

00:13:37Guest:Almost every executive in Australia was from England or the States.

00:13:42Guest:So they needed some executives out here, so they brought out guys from America and they offered him a better job, better pay, world travel.

00:13:50Guest:I think once a year they used to send us around the world.

00:13:52Marc:So he was a Ford exec where?

00:13:53Marc:Michigan?

00:13:54Guest:Yep, in Michigan, and then, yeah.

00:13:56Marc:The original plant.

00:13:57Guest:Yeah, and moved to Geelong.

00:13:59Guest:Geelong?

00:14:00Guest:Yeah, moving from Detroit to Geelong.

00:14:02Guest:Where the hell is Geelong?

00:14:03Guest:Geelong is an hour out of Melbourne.

00:14:05Guest:Is that where you live now?

00:14:06Guest:No, no, no.

00:14:08Guest:It's an hour out of Melbourne, and it's like the second city of the state of Victoria.

00:14:12Guest:And that has all the paranoia and jealousy and everything that comes with it of not being the main...

00:14:19Guest:Apparently, 150 years ago, it was like tossing a coin to decide whether Melbourne or Geelong would be the capital.

00:14:26Guest:And Melbourne got it.

00:14:29Guest:So Geelong is kind of bitter.

00:14:32Marc:But I don't understand this country.

00:14:33Marc:I'm not ignorant, but I just haven't done my homework.

00:14:36Guest:There's five states.

00:14:38Marc:Where's the big rock, the big spiritual rock?

00:14:40Guest:The center.

00:14:41Marc:Does anyone live out there?

00:14:42Guest:Yeah, it's near... What's it called?

00:14:46Guest:It's called Uluru or Ayers Rock.

00:14:49Marc:Have you been out there?

00:14:50Marc:Yep.

00:14:51Marc:Why'd you go out there for?

00:14:52Marc:Was there a gig at the base of the rock?

00:14:54Guest:There's a town called Alice Springs.

00:14:57Guest:Yeah.

00:14:59Guest:And that's the nearest city or nearest town to that.

00:15:03Guest:And we do gigs there sometimes.

00:15:05Guest:Really?

00:15:06Guest:But I didn't go up it because the Aboriginal people...

00:15:09Guest:actually don't like you to climb it.

00:15:11Guest:And so, you know, white people climb it every, you know, it's always full of, you know, German tourists or Australians climbing it.

00:15:19Guest:Americans on holiday from college, backpacks.

00:15:22Guest:And all the Aboriginal people are standing there hating the fact that everyone's climbing up this sacred thing.

00:15:28Guest:And some woman went up there and did a strip tease recently to get famous.

00:15:34Guest:An American woman, she climbed to the top and then did a strip tease, which was videoed and put on YouTube.

00:15:39Marc:Well, she's going to be cursed by the aboriginals.

00:15:44Marc:She already is, I'm sure.

00:15:45Guest:Women aren't meant to play didgeridoos or even have them aimed at them.

00:15:52Guest:It's meant to make you barren if you do that.

00:15:54Guest:Kitty Flanagan does a good joke about that.

00:15:56Guest:She says, like, she's in her 40s and hasn't got a kid or anything.

00:15:59Guest:She goes, I don't know.

00:16:00Guest:Sometimes I think being in that old girl didgeridoo band in the 80s may have had side effects.

00:16:06Marc:So that's a common thing that people know, that you can't aim a didgeridoo at a woman?

00:16:09Marc:No, it's not common.

00:16:10Marc:And a woman cannot play a didgeridoo?

00:16:12Marc:So she had to set that joke up, I would assume.

00:16:14Marc:That's sort of a regional joke.

00:16:15Marc:I don't know if that would fly.

00:16:16Guest:Well, even here, a lot of people probably wouldn't get it.

00:16:19Guest:But, yeah, a lot of people probably don't know that women aren't meant to play them, you know.

00:16:24Marc:Well, I think it's important that we bring that up on the podcast because there might be women out there who might be playing it and don't realize the trouble they're in.

00:16:32Guest:Yeah, well, it depends.

00:16:35Guest:If you want to have sex without contraception, just play that didge.

00:16:39Marc:Oh, so that's what it does?

00:16:40Marc:It'll make you barren?

00:16:41Marc:That's sort of a hard sell, I think, as a man, if I walked in and someone was like...

00:16:46Guest:We're good, man.

00:16:48Guest:Go bareback.

00:16:49Guest:Yeah, stop blowing so much and... Bareback.

00:16:54Guest:Yeah.

00:16:55Guest:Isn't that what you call it?

00:16:56Guest:Yeah, but barebacking, I always think it was... There was a thing with gay men that became big about...

00:17:03Guest:20 years ago, where after the AIDS, I know you were really young, but after the whole AIDS thing peaked, it was like a dangerous thing for gay men to do.

00:17:12Guest:If you wanted to live on the edge, you'd bear back.

00:17:15Guest:And it was like a deliberate choice.

00:17:18Marc:I think it's actually still dangerous for a few reasons.

00:17:23Marc:Well, you get thrown off.

00:17:26Marc:So you came here when you were four, and then you grew up Australian.

00:17:29Guest:Yep, and yeah, pretty much started.

00:17:33Marc:And when did you do comedy?

00:17:34Marc:When did you start?

00:17:34Marc:Because I don't know if people know this, but Greg Fleet is infamous and respected and adored figure.

00:17:43Guest:Adored and despised in equal measure.

00:17:45Marc:Yeah.

00:17:46Marc:Are you despised or are you just irritating?

00:17:47Marc:I don't think you're despised.

00:17:49Marc:I think people are more like, ah, Fleet.

00:17:51Guest:Yeah, there was a long period of time.

00:17:54Marc:You've tried the patience of your country, Greg.

00:17:56Guest:Yes.

00:17:56Guest:And now I'm sort of behaving and trying to make up for all the bad things that I did.

00:18:01Marc:Well, let's talk about where it went bad because I know some of the people that listen to my podcast know this, that when I was here in 1992 and the story about when I got sent home, as I said in that story, the comic who was there when I got sent home was you.

00:18:14Marc:Yeah, I was the emcee.

00:18:14Marc:Yeah, you were the emcee.

00:18:15Marc:You had hair.

00:18:16Marc:You were younger.

00:18:17Marc:I remember it fairly clearly.

00:18:19Marc:And I did not run into you again until like, what was it, 17 years later.

00:18:23Marc:Right, 92, 2002.

00:18:24Marc:Yeah, 15 years later in Edinburgh.

00:18:27Marc:And I recognized you because of your teeth and your face.

00:18:31Marc:And we sat there and bonded for a second.

00:18:32Marc:But there was never that moment where it was impossible.

00:18:34Marc:Like, we don't really know each other.

00:18:36Marc:And then it's sort of like, well, what have you been doing for 15 years?

00:18:39Marc:And it turns out, as I have picked up stories from you and other people, you've been up to quite a lot.

00:18:44Marc:A lot of trouble.

00:18:45Guest:Well...

00:18:46Guest:Okay, this is a way of explaining that.

00:18:50Guest:I still don't remember that gig.

00:18:54Guest:I still don't remember doing that gig with you, you getting sent home, any of that stuff.

00:18:58Guest:I know it happened because you told me about it.

00:19:00Guest:And when you told me, I sort of vaguely remember something like that.

00:19:03Guest:But I was doing so many drugs at that time.

00:19:07Guest:Like...

00:19:08Guest:For me to forget, working with a guy from America who on the second night was sent back to America.

00:19:16Marc:First week.

00:19:16Marc:No, it was a week.

00:19:17Marc:It took a week.

00:19:18Guest:Well, for me to forget that happened is a remarkable thing.

00:19:22Guest:I can't believe that I don't remember that happening.

00:19:25Marc:Well, so that was 19, what, 92-ish.

00:19:28Marc:Mm.

00:19:29Marc:So where were you in your career at that point in time?

00:19:31Marc:I mean, you were still MCing, so you weren't a huge, infamous, popular... What they used to do here was you'd get to a certain level.

00:19:39Guest:If you were around the top end of stand-up, you would get to MC the International X when they came out.

00:19:46Marc:So that was actually a good gig.

00:19:47Guest:It was.

00:19:48Guest:In fact, I've got a feeling it was one of the first times they let me do it.

00:19:52Guest:And that's why, you know, the whole thing falling apart and you're getting sent home and everything.

00:19:57Guest:I probably was going, oh God, it's my fault.

00:19:59Guest:It's my fault.

00:20:00Marc:They just sent the wrong American home.

00:20:02Marc:I just wonder who they brought in to fill in for me.

00:20:04Guest:uh it would have been someone really mainstream and and as you said back then australian shows always around that time and it has changed now it's become much more generic but back then it was uh a new stand-up going on first like a weird double act of like uh you know right that's who i had these two women the flat whites they were called i think

00:20:27Guest:Oh, so you remember that?

00:20:28Marc:Yep.

00:20:28Guest:Are they still around?

00:20:29Guest:No, they're not around.

00:20:30Guest:One of them is a reviewer.

00:20:31Guest:She does comedy reviews.

00:20:32Guest:So they'd have a new stand-up on first, a weird double act or a triple act on second.

00:20:38Guest:They would always have a juggler or a magician like you had the guy getting out of the straitjacket.

00:20:42Marc:I think he was on a unicycle in my recollection.

00:20:44Marc:Is that possible?

00:20:45Guest:Yeah.

00:20:45Guest:Yeah, I think he was the same guy who had a thing where he had a guillotine on stage and he'd chop a lettuce in half and then he'd put his head in it and it would come down.

00:20:54Guest:It was actually kind of impressive because of that noise and everything.

00:20:57Guest:You'd think, oh God, he's going to kill himself every night.

00:20:59Marc:And then the insecure Jewish guy from the States.

00:21:03Marc:After all that.

00:21:04Guest:It was horrendous.

00:21:05Guest:Well, people also don't know that you, as a clean and sober man for some time, relapsed on the way back to the U.S.

00:21:14Marc:No, I did, dude.

00:21:15Marc:Yeah, on the plane.

00:21:16Marc:That probably was the second time I was trying to get sober, and I was fucking done.

00:21:21Marc:I wasn't going to meetings and shit.

00:21:23Marc:On that plane, I just started knocking back vodka, and by the time I got back to San Francisco where I was living, I'm like, I'm finished.

00:21:30Marc:I'm not cut out for this shit.

00:21:32Marc:This comedy thing's a mistake.

00:21:33Guest:but that that's uh you know knowing what i do about you that's a heavy blow for it to be enough to make you go you know get back on the way well you know i don't at that time i'd get a year you know year and change you know i did that several times there's nothing wrong with that my friend no i know admirable getting a year you've made a career out of almost getting a year yeah

00:21:54Guest:I don't have room to store all those chips in my house, so I've always got to relapse before a year gets up.

00:22:01Marc:So when you were doing that gig, so that's 92, so you were strung out then?

00:22:04Guest:Yeah, I was using heroin.

00:22:07Marc:Now, are you a guy who can function on that?

00:22:10Marc:Yeah.

00:22:13Guest:The thing is, with heroin, if you get a habit,

00:22:18Guest:You have to have it to function.

00:22:20Guest:You know, like my ultimate horror is doing a gig or used to be doing a gig, hanging out, needing to score.

00:22:28Guest:So I used to go around all the time.

00:22:31Guest:I'd get a gig, someone would ring up and say, oh, you know, I've got a gig for you.

00:22:34Guest:It's, you know, blah, blah, blah.

00:22:36Guest:And then I'd say two things.

00:22:37Guest:I'd say, great.

00:22:39Guest:And I'd say, hey, is there any way I could come and get the money now?

00:22:42Marc:Right.

00:22:43Guest:Or just before the gig.

00:22:44Guest:So quite often, hardly ever did I get paid.

00:22:48Guest:Because I would have already spent the money.

00:22:50Guest:I'd go that afternoon and get the money...

00:22:53Guest:It was sort of like prostitution.

00:22:54Guest:I'd get the money so I could buy the drugs so I could do the gig to earn the money to buy the drugs to do the gig.

00:23:00Guest:It's like chicken and egg.

00:23:03Guest:Was he doing comedy to afford the heroin or was he doing the heroin to make himself capable of doing the comedy?

00:23:08Marc:Now, were your parents here?

00:23:10Marc:What did they go?

00:23:11Guest:I mean... My father's a great story.

00:23:14Guest:My father, not long after they were here, he did a couple of things.

00:23:18Guest:He fucked all of my mother's friends and all of his friends' wives.

00:23:22Guest:And I don't mean some.

00:23:23Guest:I mean pretty much all.

00:23:25Marc:Here?

00:23:26Guest:Yeah, in Australia.

00:23:27Guest:He'd done this in the States as well.

00:23:30Guest:If there's any addiction in my family...

00:23:32Guest:um it's it's him he had a sexual addiction for sure he was mad about it so screwed everybody and then he got into he went into business for himself that went south and rather than facing it he split but what he did was he he faked his own death and

00:23:51Guest:So he set up this thing where everyone thought he was dead.

00:23:54Guest:How did he do that?

00:23:55Guest:He left his car on a pier and sent a note to his solicitor.

00:23:58Marc:Oh, like he killed himself?

00:23:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:59Guest:Okay.

00:24:00Guest:And basically that just gave him a head start.

00:24:03Guest:And he, you know, a couple of years later, my mother, he made the mistake.

00:24:07Guest:He went all around the world doing weird things.

00:24:09Guest:He used to be in the Green Beret, so he had this weird background.

00:24:12Guest:Yeah.

00:24:12Guest:And he went around, as far as I can tell, although he wanted people to think this because he's melodramatic.

00:24:16Guest:He went around the world, you know, being a mercenary and stuff.

00:24:19Guest:But he met a woman.

00:24:21Guest:He was a mercenary?

00:24:22Guest:He really did that?

00:24:23Guest:Well, you know, he wanted us to think that.

00:24:25Guest:I mean, he may have done a little bit.

00:24:26Marc:He was a Green Beret in Vietnam?

00:24:28Marc:No, he went to Vietnam.

00:24:29Guest:He pretended to go insane and got an honorary discharge.

00:24:34Guest:From the Green Beret?

00:24:34Guest:Yeah, because they were going to Vietnam.

00:24:36Guest:And he kind of went, oh, this is really fun until it gets real.

00:24:39Guest:Right.

00:24:40Guest:But he...

00:24:41Guest:He ended up meeting another woman.

00:24:43Guest:He changed his name from William Fleet to William Lee.

00:24:46Marc:Okay, so he's dead to you.

00:24:48Guest:Yeah, he's dead.

00:24:49Marc:No one knows.

00:24:49Guest:I think people kind of suspected that he wasn't.

00:24:52Guest:I was young, so I don't remember this really clearly.

00:24:54Guest:But yeah, after a while, I think people thought, okay, he's probably not dead.

00:24:57Guest:Right.

00:24:58Guest:He changed his name to Lee from Fleet, married another woman, had a family.

00:25:02Guest:Uh, and then her, her father owned a business in Melbourne, a, um, real estate company.

00:25:09Guest:Yeah.

00:25:10Marc:Yeah.

00:25:10Guest:So stupidly he moved from remote Queensland back to Melbourne.

00:25:16Marc:Yeah.

00:25:16Guest:And one day someone saw him walking down the street and told my mother and she just walked into his office, uh,

00:25:22Guest:So, you know, four years later, he's just in his office in this one.

00:25:27Guest:Yeah.

00:25:28Marc:And, you know, she was there money at stake.

00:25:31Marc:Did you take all your mom's money and that?

00:25:33Marc:Yeah.

00:25:34Guest:She was a really wealthy family.

00:25:35Guest:He wasn't.

00:25:36Guest:And yeah, she ended up working like dead end jobs to get us through school.

00:25:41Guest:And, you know, he wrecked he wrecked her life.

00:25:44Guest:But they're both crazy.

00:25:46Guest:They both drove each other insane.

00:25:47Marc:You know, so when she goes back to see him now, do they have a relationship now?

00:25:51Guest:No, not at all.

00:25:53Guest:I mean, no, not at all.

00:25:55Guest:He lives in the States.

00:25:57Marc:She lives here.

00:25:57Marc:Oh, he's back?

00:25:58Marc:Yeah.

00:25:58Marc:He married another wealthy woman.

00:26:00Marc:A third family?

00:26:01Marc:Fourth.

00:26:01Marc:The fourth.

00:26:02Marc:Fourth wealthy woman.

00:26:03Guest:Yeah, and wealthy woman.

00:26:04Guest:And like the first person he married...

00:26:07Guest:he decided that wasn't working so what he did was he he'd ignore her for a long time then he introduced her to one of his army buddies who was kind of a handsome guy yeah and so he'd go out and visit her and you know console her and stuff like that and then of course one day they kissed on the doorstep or something and my father was in the bushes you know jumps out how could you punches his friend and divorces oh that's it because you know so now he's got an excuse yeah so now uh so do you talk to your dad

00:26:33Guest:He actually sent me an email and this is how lazy I am.

00:26:37Guest:I saw it the other day on my email thing and I haven't read it.

00:26:40Guest:But so occasionally we do.

00:26:41Guest:Yeah, but if I had a computer here now, I'd open it up and we could read it together for the first time.

00:26:46Guest:It could be, you know.

00:26:48Guest:The weird thing about him is he's never apologized or anything like that.

00:26:50Guest:But he did say some great things.

00:26:52Guest:He told me once, you know how there's all these meaningful things like if is the middle word in life?

00:26:57Guest:Yeah.

00:26:57Guest:He took me aside when I was 12 and he went, hey, Greg, you know why I changed my name to Lee that time?

00:27:02Guest:And I said, no.

00:27:03Guest:And he said, because Lee is the middle word in fleet.

00:27:07Guest:It had the rhythm of something that made sense.

00:27:11Marc:So that was his real name.

00:27:13Marc:So your dad's nuts.

00:27:17Guest:Yeah, quite nuts.

00:27:18Guest:They're all nuts.

00:27:19Marc:Yeah, I understand that.

00:27:20Marc:But it's too bad you didn't get the gift of seducing wealthy women.

00:27:24Guest:I know.

00:27:24Marc:I know that.

00:27:25Marc:You decided to do comedy instead.

00:27:28Guest:it was um it's frustrating but he did he was um he was like the camel man like the marlboro man he was like on the back of you know magazines because he's quite handsome he took up acting and stuff like that later your father did yeah and there's like pictures of him on the back of a tugboat throwing ropes overboard and smoking a camel really yeah so he got into that yeah he got into that and uh you know small parts in movies he had like two lines in a james garner film called tank but uh yeah you talked to your mom

00:27:57Guest:Yeah.

00:27:58Guest:Yep.

00:27:59Guest:Yeah, we get on.

00:28:00Guest:I mean, we drive each other crazy.

00:28:03Guest:We went for about five years where we didn't speak at all.

00:28:06Guest:But more recently, we're starting to again.

00:28:08Marc:Well, you seem pretty healthy.

00:28:09Marc:You don't seem all sweaty and fucked up.

00:28:11Guest:No, I am healthy.

00:28:12Marc:How many times have you been like, when I saw you in 92, when did you first end up getting sober?

00:28:17Guest:Oh.

00:28:19Marc:Or off the dope anyways.

00:28:20Guest:Not, I mean, yeah, I'd stop and start, you know, but I'd stop there and just do other things, as you know.

00:28:24Guest:You know, you'd give up your drug of choice and then do all the other ones.

00:28:27Marc:Sure.

00:28:27Guest:I'm so healthy.

00:28:28Guest:It's great.

00:28:29Marc:Well, that's a tough one to kick, you know.

00:28:30Marc:And I want to thank you for helping me out in this trip to Melbourne by, you know, you asked me for $25 and I gave it to you.

00:28:39Marc:And I've been able to use that on stage because apparently there isn't one person in Melbourne that you haven't borrowed money from.

00:28:45Guest:There's actually two comics I haven't borrowed money from.

00:28:48Guest:And we were talking about this before.

00:28:49Guest:One of them said to me the other day that both of them feel somehow that they're being shut out of this really exclusive club.

00:28:56Guest:That they're somehow not good enough comics for me to borrow money from.

00:28:59Guest:So they feel really bad.

00:29:01Guest:So I better go borrow some money from them.

00:29:02Marc:Wait till you really need it and make it big.

00:29:04Marc:Yeah.

00:29:04Marc:Make them feel really special.

00:29:06Marc:You guys are so special.

00:29:08Marc:I need $500.

00:29:08Marc:Yeah.

00:29:09Guest:Everyone else, it was just $25.

00:29:11Marc:Now, knowing that you have all these debts everywhere.

00:29:13Marc:I don't really.

00:29:15Guest:I mean, I've actually paid.

00:29:16Marc:Someone said that.

00:29:17Marc:Someone said eventually you pay it back.

00:29:18Marc:Yeah.

00:29:18Guest:And when I first stopped using, when I stopped the most recent time, which seems like the final time,

00:29:29Guest:I actually went around paying people and everyone was really shocked.

00:29:32Guest:It was actually a good way though to let people know that you're sober.

00:29:35Guest:You're actually paying them back.

00:29:36Guest:They go, wow, this is actually happening.

00:29:41Guest:there was this great time where people could come up to me and go, Hey man, look, I really need that 80 bucks and I'd give it to them.

00:29:47Marc:Yeah.

00:29:47Guest:And then they go, you don't really owe me 80 bucks.

00:29:50Guest:I just assumed anyone who said that it was true.

00:29:55Marc:So if somebody catches you on the right day, you just, they can just ask you for the money that you owe them.

00:30:00Guest:Yeah.

00:30:00Guest:I'm sure there are people out there I've paid money to that I never owed it to.

00:30:03Marc:Well, good for them.

00:30:04Marc:They've got your own game.

00:30:05Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:30:05Guest:They're sitting back having an exotic lunch, and I'm sitting somewhere going, oh, man, I really needed that money, but I guess at least I'm paying my debts.

00:30:14Marc:So, now, the show you did a few years back about the addiction, what was the angle on that?

00:30:21Guest:I did a show called Ten Years in a Long Sleeved Shirt.

00:30:23Marc:Yeah.

00:30:24Guest:And...

00:30:25Guest:It was basically, I was drawing parallels between love and addiction.

00:30:32Guest:And how, for me, most of the times when I got into taking a new drug or whatever, it was through a romantic situation.

00:30:39Guest:Really?

00:30:39Guest:How do you mean?

00:30:40Guest:Well, like I'd meet a girl, she'd be into something.

00:30:43Guest:Okay.

00:30:44Guest:And so she'd go, do you want to try this?

00:30:45Guest:And I'd do it.

00:30:46Guest:And so I always equated, and still do, romantic love with addiction.

00:30:51Guest:Yeah.

00:30:52Marc:You know, so to me... Well, there's something very nurturing about heroin.

00:30:56Guest:Well, there is.

00:30:57Marc:There is, in a way.

00:30:58Marc:Sure.

00:30:58Marc:I mean, I think that on some level, that's what we're all looking for, is that warm feeling of comfort and being okay.

00:31:05Guest:Yeah, and having a couple of Asian guys looking for you to break your legs to get... No, that's probably not part of it.

00:31:12Guest:But...

00:31:13Guest:But yeah, I always equated taking a new drug for the first time.

00:31:21Guest:Usually it would be the same day that I'd end up sleeping with somebody for the first time.

00:31:24Marc:Like what new drugs?

00:31:25Marc:I mean, the first time you did dope was with who?

00:31:27Marc:A woman?

00:31:28Guest:Yep.

00:31:28Guest:Yeah, first time I did heroin was with a woman.

00:31:32Marc:Wow, you must be really grateful for that.

00:31:34Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:31:35Marc:It was a great relationship.

00:31:36Marc:She really got you started on a lifelong journey that you've got to just wake up every day and thank her.

00:31:42Guest:Thank her, yeah.

00:31:43Guest:She's, of course, been clean for 15 years and has a really good life, and I'm still out there scrambling around.

00:31:49Guest:Do they still talk?

00:31:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, we do.

00:31:52Guest:Oh, really?

00:31:52Guest:We do see each other occasionally.

00:31:53Guest:She's great.

00:31:54Guest:But it wasn't like she got me into it.

00:31:56Guest:I mean, she did give me the first time I did it, but, I mean, I would have found it somewhere else.

00:32:00Marc:Sure.

00:32:01Marc:That's a nice way to put it.

00:32:02Guest:Yeah.

00:32:03Guest:So I've always equated new drug experiences with romance and therefore all the insecurity that goes with that and the obsession and the addiction and needing... Like everyone says that giving up cigarettes or giving up a certain drug is like ending a relationship.

00:32:21Guest:And for me, heroin ended up being by far the longest relationship I'd had with anyone or anything.

00:32:27Guest:So it really was... And when you end something like that,

00:32:32Guest:actually in rehab once had to write a letter to heroin breaking off the relationship uh-huh and it seemed like a dicky thing to do but it was actually great right you're saying all these things like the whole time we were together I was dedicated to you I spent all my money trying to you know keep your own and and you know I didn't realize this but all the all that time you were seeing other people yeah I was dedicated to you but you were seeing anyone who had the money yeah yeah yeah but um yeah it's what but after that you and heroin got back together a few times and

00:32:58Guest:Oh, yeah, we'd party.

00:33:02Guest:You know, heroin would come around and be all depressed because she'd split up with her recent boyfriend and I'd just console her.

00:33:08Guest:But, yeah, look, it went on and off and on and off for ages.

00:33:11Guest:But around the time I met you, or re-met you in Edinburgh, so five years ago, was around the time that I seriously started to end it.

00:33:21Guest:Before that, it was just I'd give up because I ran out of money or I'd give up because...

00:33:26Guest:I ran out of money.

00:33:28Guest:It was never serious and it was never long term.

00:33:32Guest:It was always like, I'll stop this for a few months.

00:33:35Guest:But then around the time of meeting you, I'd been to a rehab before that.

00:33:40Guest:And then you and I spent that month together.

00:33:43Marc:Well, that was insane because I met you and I recognized you.

00:33:46Marc:I sat down.

00:33:46Marc:I ordered a club soda.

00:33:47Marc:You said you ordered a beer.

00:33:49Marc:You said, why are you drinking club soda?

00:33:50Marc:I said, I don't drink.

00:33:51Marc:And you said, I shouldn't be either.

00:33:53Marc:And somehow I talked some shit to you.

00:33:55Marc:And then we ended up going to meetings for a month.

00:33:56Guest:And it was great.

00:33:57Marc:It was good.

00:33:58Marc:It was good.

00:33:59Guest:Yeah.

00:33:59Guest:And, I mean, the show I did about addiction, I actually did in Edinburgh.

00:34:03Guest:And it was great because I sort of got into this thing, and I don't know if you ever do this, but I was doing these thematic shows over a couple of years.

00:34:14Guest:I did the one about addiction.

00:34:15Guest:I did one about this horrendous holiday I had in Thailand.

00:34:19Guest:But...

00:34:20Guest:they were shows that had you know they were mostly funny so they'd be you know look at this idiot you know it was always about me being an idiot you know and you know you know hawk shops or you know what do you call them um pawn shops you know resembling my living room you know because all my stuff would be in there and i'd go in and you know change the positioning of some of the things and say it looks better like this and this is how i had it at home yeah yeah yeah

00:34:42Guest:So, you know, there was all the funny things of drug addiction and stuff and, you know, like funny stories about taking LSD and the funny things that can happen or, you know, all that kind of stuff.

00:34:53Guest:But then also in there would be like my girlfriend overdosing and dying or something.

00:34:59Guest:So it would be like 95% hilarious and 5% quite tragic.

00:35:04Marc:Did that happen?

00:35:05Marc:Yeah.

00:35:06Guest:Yeah.

00:35:06Guest:So there'd be.

00:35:07Guest:When did that happen?

00:35:08Guest:Oh, 80, 89 or something.

00:35:12Guest:Were you in the room?

00:35:14Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:16Guest:But for the audience, it would be this great journey of like, hilarious, hilarious, hilarious, and then deeply tragic and suddenly.

00:35:22Guest:And I remember every night there was this moment in the show where there would just be silence.

00:35:27Guest:And one night I heard this woman in this, you know, sort of like, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh.

00:35:31Guest:Oh my God, silence.

00:35:32Guest:And I just heard this one voice in the crowd go,

00:35:34Guest:oh no and it was incredible feeling because then you go back to comedy straight away you'd have to have a really good joke to break that that tragic vibe but people would leave having been on this incredible journey and they actually liked it better than when i just did shows that were just funny funny funny funny funny well yeah well theater and if there's an arc and there's a you know there's something happens and then there's a you know some sort of transformation i mean i i assume that after that show you got clean in the narrative right

00:36:03Guest:Yeah, well, I mean, the trouble with that show was it's on YouTube.

00:36:08Guest:It's called Ten Years in a Long Slave Show.

00:36:09Guest:There's a half-hour version of it on YouTube that I did as a TV special.

00:36:13Guest:But if you look at it, you can see I'm stoned.

00:36:16Guest:So I'm actually doing this show about how I used to be a heroin addict on heroin.

00:36:20Guest:So that was problematic because I did that for a couple of years.

00:36:23Marc:That was problematic?

00:36:24Guest:Yeah.

00:36:25Guest:Because you're saying you're not on heroin anymore?

00:36:26Guest:Oh, absolutely.

00:36:27Guest:And, you know, borrowing money off people.

00:36:28Guest:So that's where...

00:36:30Marc:i think i said that to you the other day hey man can i borrow 80 bucks to fix my fridge yeah i actually had a guy say that to me once i just looked at this guy i'm just like you don't have a fridge so in that moment though because i mean that's about you know when it comes to uh to heroin stories that's that's really the worst that can happen i mean you know there's plenty of people that almost die but when you have somebody that you're with die i mean what what was this what was the story there

00:36:56Guest:Well, that wasn't really my, that was someone I'd seen a little bit, but the really tragic or the upsetting story in that when I would do that show was my actual girlfriend who I first started doing it with, she OD'd.

00:37:13Guest:She didn't actually die, but what happened was she I did I turned around and she's out she's like I'd never seen anyone do this, but she's like not breathing her skin's going black.

00:37:22Guest:She's She's you know, no pulse.

00:37:25Guest:I'm trying to Revive her and doing all this stuff and there was another guy there who's her really good friend this gay guy who was like the three of us were really close and

00:37:33Guest:So I just said, keep her breathing, keep her breathing.

00:37:35Guest:And I went running out in the street to try and get an ambulance or something.

00:37:38Guest:All these surreal things happened.

00:37:40Guest:I went out in the street and I said, is anyone here a doctor?

00:37:42Guest:And this guy came running up to me and went, I'm an accountant.

00:37:46Guest:That's not going to help.

00:37:47Guest:But I went back inside the house and my friend had fallen asleep on top of my girlfriend.

00:37:52Guest:Instead of keeping her breathing, he had just nodded off on top of her.

00:37:55Guest:So they're both out.

00:37:56Marc:It's like fucking Trainspotter.

00:37:57Guest:Oh man, it was, yeah, very much so.

00:37:59Guest:So, you know, eventually ambulance guys come and I'm, the other thing, I kept picking her up and slapping her, trying to wake her up.

00:38:05Guest:I found out later that what I was doing was actually knocking her out.

00:38:09Guest:I was so panicking, I was hitting her so hard that she probably would have come too, except every time she started to, I'd slap her and probably knock her out again, but

00:38:17Guest:These guys came, the ambulance came, they gave her a shot of this stuff, Narcane, which reverses the effects of heroin.

00:38:23Guest:And nothing, nothing happened, nothing happened.

00:38:25Guest:The feeling, it's so hard to describe this feeling that goes through you when you go, your whole world is caved in, she's dead.

00:38:33Guest:You haven't thought about her family telling her mother and father, your family, just the fact that she's gone.

00:38:40Guest:All this stuff starts descending on you.

00:38:42Guest:And they gave her another shot of Narcane and suddenly she just went, dude!

00:38:45Guest:and sat up yeah and you know they sort of brought her around and the first thing she said to me she went have you had yours and i said no and she would give me half oh no unbelievable oh absolutely true so strung out yeah and then but that was the one that got sober huh

00:39:04Guest:Yep.

00:39:04Marc:Yeah, she's remarkably... So none of these incidents, did you ever die?

00:39:10Guest:Well, one of the very last times I used heroin was in Ireland.

00:39:19Guest:And I hadn't done it for a long time.

00:39:21Guest:The classic story.

00:39:22Guest:I'd been clean, going to meetings and stuff like that.

00:39:25Guest:Hadn't done it for a long time.

00:39:25Guest:And I just was in that mood.

00:39:27Guest:I found myself going for a walk in Ireland, which is, I don't often go for walks.

00:39:31Guest:Or in Kilkenny?

00:39:32Guest:No, in Dublin.

00:39:33Guest:And then I found myself just happened to be walking around the dodgy part of town.

00:39:37Guest:Like, wow, I just ended up in this part of town.

00:39:39Guest:I understand this.

00:39:40Guest:Yeah.

00:39:40Guest:And look at those guys over there.

00:39:41Guest:They seem to be on some kind of, they're very tired.

00:39:44Guest:And so I ended up scoring from this guy, took him back to my hotel.

00:39:47Guest:I bought him some and he told me too.

00:39:50Guest:He said, look, one thing about this stuff, it's crap.

00:39:53Guest:You know, unfortunately it's not very good.

00:39:55Guest:So he had his and left and I had mine and I woke up in hospital.

00:40:01Guest:And there was all this embarrassment and shame.

00:40:04Guest:Basically, I'd OD'd in the hotel room, hadn't turned to my gig.

00:40:07Guest:They had sent someone back to the hotel.

00:40:09Guest:The owner of the gig had come back to my hotel, got the manager of the hotel to come up and open my room.

00:40:15Guest:And I'm in there.

00:40:16Guest:There's syringes all over the place.

00:40:17Guest:I'm unconscious on the floor.

00:40:20Guest:They put me in a wheelchair and get me to hospital.

00:40:24Guest:And I finally come to in hospital and go, why am I in hospital?

00:40:28Guest:And I didn't realize I was in Ireland.

00:40:30Guest:And I'm going, why has everyone got an Irish accent?

00:40:32Guest:And I leave this hospital.

00:40:34Guest:They're telling me to stay.

00:40:35Guest:I said, no, I've got to get to work.

00:40:36Guest:I bolt to this gig and it's over.

00:40:39Guest:It's all finished.

00:40:40Guest:And I go up to the owner of the venue and I say, oh, sorry, man.

00:40:43Guest:I was on my way here and I got rolled by these two guys and they took my wallet and he's just looking at me.

00:40:49Guest:He's the guy that's just come around and got me off the floor and taking me to hospital So I'm telling this elaborate lie and as I'm telling it I'm going on this isn't working So that was that was that was the only time I never I did though And that was one of the very last times I use how the hell did you manage?

00:41:05Marc:I mean held you 47 48.

00:41:07Marc:Yeah, so you're my age and you didn't you didn't get hep C. You didn't get AIDS and

00:41:12Guest:I know, that's remarkable.

00:41:14Marc:And you're still, you seem to be pretty, you know, pretty... Fat?

00:41:17Marc:Are you saying I'm fat?

00:41:18Marc:You're fat, yeah.

00:41:19Guest:I didn't used to be, I actually do this thing now where I stand on stage side on, because I always used to be quite skinny, and the audience sees that I've actually developed this kind of fat stomach, and I...

00:41:28Marc:And they think you're doing well.

00:41:29Marc:They do.

00:41:30Marc:Hopefully it's good.

00:41:31Marc:They do.

00:41:31Guest:I point at my stomach.

00:41:32Guest:I say, ladies and gentlemen, one thing I just want to say to the young people is never give up heroin.

00:41:37Guest:Yeah.

00:41:38Guest:Just be a fat old man.

00:41:40Marc:But over the process of what's got to be 20 years of this shit or 15 years.

00:41:43Guest:25.

00:41:45Marc:Right.

00:41:45Marc:Since you've been a professional comic.

00:41:46Marc:I mean, you know, the infamy of it is probably how has it affected your career?

00:41:51Marc:I mean, you've done what, TV?

00:41:53Marc:I mean, you've done acting, right?

00:41:55Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:57Guest:And TV, I've just written a series, a TV series about comics.

00:42:01Guest:So it's about five comics who are friends and just what comics do when they're not on stage.

00:42:06Marc:But do people trust you or are you ever going to regain...

00:42:07Guest:Well, not really, I don't think.

00:42:11Guest:But this TV show hopefully will be, there's a lot riding on it for me, but it's kind of like my reintroduction to that world.

00:42:18Guest:And if it goes as well as I think it will, it does look incredible.

00:42:22Guest:I'll send you a copy of it.

00:42:23Guest:You can tell me what you think.

00:42:24Guest:But it's got good people in it.

00:42:27Guest:A lot of well-respected people here and in the UK are in it.

00:42:31Guest:But if that works, I think I'll get a lot more trust and a lot more, you know, like there's some talk of doing a second season of it and stuff.

00:42:40Guest:So there's a lot, you know, I've kind of got all my eggs in one basket on that level.

00:42:44Marc:Well, everybody knows you on this side of the world and in England.

00:42:48Marc:I mean, Stuart Lee speaks highly of you and everybody seems to know Fleet, your infamous character, and they respect your comedy.

00:42:56Guest:Yeah, but that's about it.

00:42:57Guest:That's where the respect ends.

00:42:59Guest:Yeah.

00:42:59Guest:Because they do.

00:43:00Guest:They do respect the character.

00:43:01Guest:But, I mean, to a lot of people, like Stuart, he's incredibly frustrated by me.

00:43:06Guest:And it makes me feel bad because Stuart Lee works incredibly hard.

00:43:10Guest:You know, he's incredibly creative and talented.

00:43:13Guest:He has a lot of time for my work and has helped me a lot.

00:43:15Guest:But I also upset him.

00:43:18Guest:You know, it's upsetting for him to see someone wasting ability or, you know, not achieving what they could achieve.

00:43:24Marc:So it's... Well, you say that with a certain detachment.

00:43:27Marc:I mean, does it...

00:43:27Guest:Upset you?

00:43:29Guest:Enormously.

00:43:30Marc:So what do you do with that?

00:43:31Guest:Well, what you should do with it is stop behaving like a fucking idiot and work hard and, you know, lift your game.

00:43:38Marc:And what do you do?

00:43:39Guest:Just beat the shit out of yourself until you... Yeah, I just keep, you know, rolling those dice going, I don't have to do the work, I'm lucky.

00:43:45Guest:Lucky old fleety.

00:43:46Guest:Hey, seven, see?

00:43:49Guest:But more recently I've actually been doing it and that's why writing the TV show was a great thing because I think a lot of people didn't think I'd get it done.

00:43:56Guest:I wrote it as a play and we did it in the Comedy Festival about six years ago.

00:44:00Guest:But turning it into a TV show was great and I think it will work and it will be a way into that world of responsibility and then I assume I will pick up the ball and run with it and actually do more and more and more.

00:44:15Guest:Or I'll do what I used to do, which is get really cocky and go, wow, see, I've done a great thing.

00:44:19Guest:I could probably do this and use heroin at the same time and everything would work out great.

00:44:25Marc:So we don't know what's going to happen.

00:44:27Guest:Well, I can't imagine I would do that.

00:44:29Guest:If I did that again, I would be seriously, it would be like committing suicide, you know, career-wise.

00:44:35Guest:And, you know, I've got a kid now and all that sort of stuff.

00:44:38Guest:You've had a kid for nine years.

00:44:40Guest:Yeah, I know, but I only just realized.

00:44:42Guest:But, you know, yeah, you just, you can't, you know, I need to earn money, I need to, you know, get school fees for her and give her a decent life and, you know, and also I'm egotistical like anybody, you know, anyone in comedy, I want to do things that are...

00:45:00Guest:that are admired so you know i'm running out of time so this is you know this is time to you know i've had a great life i've done what i wanted to do i've been really self-indulgent and now is kind of i mean and the other thing is giving up heroin is is you're actually gaining you know it's like as you'd know it's you're not really giving anything up you're getting a whole lot of other stuff you're getting opportunities and work and trust and

00:45:23Guest:What is it about the dough?

00:45:27Guest:I think it's what you said before about security, which is bizarre because you think it makes you the most insecure person because you don't know where your next taste is coming from.

00:45:38Marc:You've got to rely on it.

00:45:39Marc:You've got to go into shitty buildings with shitty people.

00:45:42Guest:You get threatened with getting stabbed and stolen from.

00:45:46Marc:Have you gotten to the point where you had to steal shit?

00:45:48No.

00:45:48Guest:uh yeah yeah not really had to but i did you know and only from people around me which is so just people you know yeah people i love yeah people who loved me and trusted me so never from strangers or you know are there houses you can't go to no not really but anymore i imagine like was it ever to the point where your mom was like nope can't come over

00:46:10Guest:No, I never got that.

00:46:12Guest:I never got that.

00:46:12Guest:But I'm sure there'd be people who, if I saw them or went around to their house, they wouldn't just leave their wallet in the middle of the table.

00:46:21Guest:I kind of thought about it.

00:46:25Guest:But your wallet never has any money, and I check it all the time.

00:46:29Guest:Well, I'm glad you're all right, man.

00:46:31Guest:You know, it all works with comedy and stuff because, you know, you can do... I find the more tragic and shit a thing that happens to you, the better it is for comedy.

00:46:38Marc:Well, yeah, I agree whether it happens in your mind or in real life.

00:46:41Guest:Well, yeah, but I mean, you know, relationships ending, anything like that...

00:46:44Guest:There's always part of me now, while something bad's happening to me, part of me in the back of my brain, while it's happening, is going, one day I'll make money out of this.

00:46:53Guest:One day this will be a routine.

00:46:54Guest:Really?

00:46:54Guest:Even if I'm crying.

00:46:55Guest:I was crying once, and I was going, this actually could be quite good soon.

00:47:03Marc:Well, I definitely appreciate you talking.

00:47:07Guest:Oh, man, I love it, and I really like the show, and it's a thrill to be on it.

00:47:12Guest:And we're going to do some live one or something.

00:47:14Marc:Yeah, we are, on Saturday.

00:47:15Marc:Cool.

00:47:15Marc:Talk to you later.

00:47:16Marc:See ya.

00:47:21Marc:My guest here is Simon Munnery.

00:47:24Marc:Now you get some of the similar things that I get, which is a legend, a cult figure.

00:47:31Marc:Yeah.

00:47:31Marc:And I find that those things... Genius?

00:47:33Marc:Do you have that one?

00:47:34Marc:Rarely.

00:47:35Marc:You get genius.

00:47:35Guest:That's good.

00:47:36Guest:Well, yeah.

00:47:36Guest:I don't think it's good.

00:47:38Guest:What does the word genius mean?

00:47:39Guest:Solon Kierkegaard's got quite a nice bit about it, how people use the word genius to distance themselves.

00:47:44Guest:That's other.

00:47:45Marc:Yeah.

00:47:46Guest:What does it mean?

00:47:47Guest:There's a lot of geniuses in town.

00:47:48Marc:Sure, yeah.

00:47:48Marc:Usually...

00:47:49Marc:Genius means that not everyone understands them, but they've been around a long time, and they should be understood, but it's not on me to do it.

00:47:57Guest:But a comic genius is sort of a contradiction in terms.

00:48:00Guest:You'd think a comic genius would be someone that no one found funny, but possibly the future would.

00:48:04Guest:That's right.

00:48:04Guest:That's exactly what it is.

00:48:05Guest:But they don't mean that.

00:48:06Guest:A comic genius is very, very funny right now, but somehow... It's a way of saying he's different.

00:48:12Marc:Different, yes.

00:48:14Guest:Different.

00:48:14Marc:Than the rest of them.

00:48:16Marc:He stands out from the pack.

00:48:18Marc:Right.

00:48:18Marc:Now, in terms of, like, I don't want to seem stupid or ignorant, but I do not, my pulse is, my fingers are not on the pulse of British comedy or international comedy as much as it should.

00:48:29Marc:You know, I talked to, when I was in London, I talked to Stuart Lee, who, you know, has nothing but lovely things to say about you.

00:48:36Guest:Yeah, in his book, in my favorite piece he does in his book, I put him in a lot of his notes.

00:48:41Guest:Yeah.

00:48:42Guest:which is Simon Murray, who is by no means a household name, even in his own house, where his wife and three lovely daughters habitually refer to him as Mr. Poopoohead, which is too near the truth to be funny.

00:48:56Marc:Did you start with him, though?

00:48:57Marc:Where do you put your beginnings in comedy?

00:48:59Marc:I mean, what years?

00:49:00Marc:I've been doing it 25 years.

00:49:03Guest:I started when I was 19 at college.

00:49:04Marc:What did you study when you went to school?

00:49:07Marc:Because you seemed sort of high-minded.

00:49:08Guest:Science.

00:49:09Guest:A little bit of science.

00:49:10Guest:A little bit of science?

00:49:11Guest:Very little.

00:49:12Guest:As soon as I got to university, I kind of hated it.

00:49:14Guest:I went off it within about a week.

00:49:16Guest:I was really looking forward to it.

00:49:17Guest:All through school, they said, wait until you're in the sixth form.

00:49:19Guest:All through the sixth form, wait until you're in the university.

00:49:21Guest:And I got there and I went...

00:49:22Guest:It's the same it's look learn this learn that as an exam coming learn it I remember sitting in this lecture hall where there's 2,000 students and a man at the front with an overhead projector Reading out notes from his book and writing them down on the overhead projector and we're all copying them out and it seemed You know that could be done with a photocopier couldn't it really there's no what is this yeah That was it really you quit

00:49:47Guest:Well, you know, I should have changed subject, but I just didn't go to any more lectures or paid no attention to it anyway.

00:49:55Guest:I met my supervisor on the last week of the last year.

00:50:02Guest:I've met him, and I said, he's meant to be supervising me every week, and I've never been.

00:50:06Guest:So he'd never met me.

00:50:07Guest:Oh, the whole time?

00:50:08Guest:He said, oh, look, the exam's coming up.

00:50:09Guest:Could you recommend one book I could read?

00:50:11Guest:No.

00:50:12Guest:Come on, there's been a week.

00:50:14Guest:Okay.

00:50:15Guest:I just slipped through the net.

00:50:16Guest:Because I'd never been, he'd never sent reports.

00:50:19Guest:So people who are higher up in charge of looking after my academic welfare never got a bad report.

00:50:26Guest:There was no positive.

00:50:28Guest:So I just fell through the net and they didn't notice.

00:50:31Marc:I just got some weird kind of panic.

00:50:33Marc:That thought of not going to class and then having to do the exam.

00:50:37Marc:Yeah.

00:50:38Marc:I still have dreams about that.

00:50:39Marc:It was amazing what school does, how it's imprinted on you, that jumping over hurdles.

00:50:44Marc:Horrendous, horrendous.

00:50:46Marc:So when you deal with, because I watched your show the other night, and like I said, I didn't grow up with you in the same scene.

00:50:53Marc:When you do something, even when you talk about the Nietzschean character, that you know that the audience is going to be baffled.

00:51:02Marc:yeah a bit for a long time uh if it maybe even the entire time yeah i mean is is that something that you get a thrill out of or do you really think in your mind that they are going to get it eventually uh well i i if i think of how i work is if something makes me laugh right i want to know if it makes other people laugh right so it's kind of a sharing thing and and

00:51:25Guest:And sometimes you have to abandon something after enough tries.

00:51:28Guest:No, that's not going to work.

00:51:29Guest:But there's often little bits.

00:51:31Guest:You know, most things I think of most people find funny.

00:51:34Guest:Yeah.

00:51:34Guest:I think in an audience.

00:51:36Guest:People come to see me specifically.

00:51:38Guest:There's even more chance.

00:51:39Guest:Yeah.

00:51:40Guest:But still, there'll be some things that just don't work.

00:51:42Guest:But then, you know, you hone it.

00:51:43Guest:I think that you do it lots of times.

00:51:46Guest:I'm very slow to give up with something completely.

00:51:48Guest:If it made me laugh once and I've still got the...

00:51:50Guest:gist of why I found that funny.

00:51:52Guest:I wouldn't be able to put it into words.

00:51:53Guest:Something about that made me funny.

00:51:55Guest:Anyway, I'll keep on with it until I'm absolutely convinced there's no hope for it.

00:52:01Marc:What's an example of something that you've just locked onto and refused to let go of despite the fact...

00:52:06Guest:It's quite okay when I used to do So I like a joke.

00:52:11Guest:We just have to play for luck as well sometimes.

00:52:14Guest:What does that mean?

00:52:15Guest:Well, you know, it's there's no death.

00:52:17Guest:It's not definitely gonna work, right?

00:52:19Marc:Yes, I'll try it.

00:52:19Guest:Yeah, which is as Alan Parker this character is punk.

00:52:23Guest:Yeah, I used to go and

00:52:24Guest:to the audience, has anyone here ever felt totally alone?

00:52:28Guest:And what I'm praying for is one person goes, yeah, and I go, oh, just you then.

00:52:35Guest:It's one of those, just you then, or just me then format.

00:52:40Guest:Anyone who, you know, anyone who,

00:52:42Guest:Right.

00:52:43Marc:Did it happen sometimes?

00:52:45Marc:Yes.

00:52:46Guest:Perfectly.

00:52:46Guest:Oh, good.

00:52:47Guest:And other times not.

00:52:48Guest:I'd leave the gap and I'd wait.

00:52:51Marc:Yeah.

00:52:52Marc:Like I watched your show the other night and it's called, what is it called?

00:52:54Marc:Self-employed?

00:52:55Marc:It is.

00:52:56Marc:And is that more of a, do you generate a new hour every year?

00:53:00Marc:Oh, you got me.

00:53:01Marc:Go on, put the cuffs on.

00:53:03Guest:No, I don't.

00:53:04Guest:No, I mean, it's a tall order.

00:53:06Guest:That is basically the show I did last year honed more with a new front end.

00:53:13Guest:Well, a back end now.

00:53:14Guest:The conceptual restaurant sketch was new.

00:53:17Guest:Last August.

00:53:18Marc:But if you could explain it to me, the restaurant sketch in your mind.

00:53:21Marc:I'm just, I'm fascinated.

00:53:22Guest:I want to do it outside.

00:53:23Guest:Yeah.

00:53:25Guest:Create my own venue.

00:53:26Guest:You know, cardboard and canvas and lightweight stuff.

00:53:30Guest:Yeah.

00:53:31Guest:A conceptual restaurant that I could put anywhere.

00:53:33Guest:and I built a trolley for it, that was the first thing I did, so I could store all the dishes without me getting broken.

00:53:38Guest:And I performed it once, I just set it up in my garden, it's got a big garden, and next door neighbor's mother-in-law saw me doing it, and was attracted over by the very sight of me, and she was my first customer.

00:53:48Guest:She came in, she laughed her head off, so I thought, this works.

00:53:52Guest:Now, okay, so I built this trolley, I tried to attach it to a bike,

00:53:55Guest:broke the thing that connected it because it was completely unstable I never built a trolley before I've learned a lot about it don't make it top-heavy and unstable so then I was going to Edinburgh planning to just do a straightforward set and thought I've got that really I don't need the trolley I don't need all I need is the dishes actually I can do it I'll do it as a sketch

00:54:14Guest:So I did a sketch with a chair and table on the stage and I used to get people up to go in the restaurant and I realised, no, they're sitting in chairs anyway.

00:54:21Guest:Why bother?

00:54:22Guest:It took two days to work that out.

00:54:24Guest:Of course, it's awkward.

00:54:26Guest:What happened was people didn't want to get up.

00:54:28Guest:You know the thing, if they don't want to, you've just got to make them.

00:54:33Guest:You can't not...

00:54:34Guest:I tried to, you know, should have learned this years ago.

00:54:37Guest:Would you like to come up and say, no.

00:54:39Guest:Okay, then you try someone else.

00:54:40Guest:Of course they don't want to either.

00:54:41Guest:No one wants to volunteer.

00:54:43Guest:So then what?

00:54:44Guest:And I realized, well, there's no need for them to come up.

00:54:47Guest:I can just move the table towards them.

00:54:49Guest:They're in it.

00:54:50Marc:Don't give them a choice.

00:54:51Marc:Yeah, they're at the restaurant.

00:54:53Marc:So the restaurant is basically different countries, right?

00:54:57Marc:Yeah.

00:54:57Marc:Well, I mean, there's one restaurant where you have Belgium on the plate.

00:55:01Guest:Oh, no.

00:55:02Guest:Basically, the restaurant is a conceptual restaurant.

00:55:04Guest:There's no food.

00:55:05Guest:It's art.

00:55:06Guest:So broad canvas.

00:55:08Guest:What it is is each dish.

00:55:09Guest:And it's a cold scene.

00:55:11Guest:There's masses more in there that can be done.

00:55:13Guest:That's just as far as I've got with it.

00:55:14Guest:A dish.

00:55:16Guest:And what is a description in the menu.

00:55:18Guest:followed by a surprise of some sort, preferably there's some sort of activity involved, like you could have a murder mystery on a plate to work out something.

00:55:25Guest:And you can have a performance element as well by the waiter.

00:55:28Guest:He can sing, dance it to you, offer you things to go with it.

00:55:32Guest:You can have little, so basically that sort of format of a restaurant, which is theater anyway, apart from the food element.

00:55:38Marc:So the inspiration was that there's a presentation by a waiter in a real restaurant.

00:55:43Marc:And on some level you thought that you could extend that or break it open.

00:55:47Guest:Yeah, to make a restaurant without food.

00:55:50Guest:So it's just all, as I say, all the rigmarole of out cuisine without the shame of eating.

00:55:56Guest:What I love about that phrase is you probably hadn't thought there was a shame in eating.

00:55:59Marc:There is sort of a shame in eating.

00:56:01Guest:Well, there is now.

00:56:03Guest:But I don't think it's in the public consciousness that much.

00:56:06Guest:Yes, perhaps it is.

00:56:07Guest:There is getting too fat.

00:56:08Guest:There's that.

00:56:09Marc:Well, there's an awkwardness to it.

00:56:10Marc:I went to a fancy restaurant last night where I had that moment where there was such a...

00:56:14Marc:There was a labor to the waiter, the waitress, you know, telling me, explaining dishes as being, you know, having bouquets and there's a refreshing.

00:56:24Marc:Yeah, but it's this weird poetics that it's fairly recent.

00:56:28Marc:And it's hard for it not to be ridiculous because not only is it ridiculous when you're hearing it in a way, you're like, come on, it's just fucking ice cream.

00:56:35Marc:And, and, but then when you're eating it there, the shame is like, I'm not getting the bouquet.

00:56:40Marc:I'm not, I'm not, maybe I'm not.

00:56:43Marc:Exactly.

00:56:44Marc:Well, I mean, it's awfully good, but it's a bit much the whole, they add overhyped.

00:56:48Marc:Well, it's beautiful, but it's, it's still just food.

00:56:51Guest:You know,

00:56:52Guest:Yeah, so the mechanism is that you get a description in the menu, which I find ridiculous.

00:56:58Guest:It's a description of something that doesn't exist yet as well.

00:57:00Guest:And the time people spend pouring over the menu, going, oh, all that.

00:57:06Guest:So much to read, so many decisions to make.

00:57:08Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:09Guest:But I thought there's a lot can be played with that.

00:57:11Guest:You could have the waiter could actually look at you and decide what you want.

00:57:15Guest:He could know what you want.

00:57:17Guest:Yeah.

00:57:17Guest:And then not give you the choice.

00:57:18Guest:No, yeah.

00:57:19Guest:The illusion of choice.

00:57:20Guest:In fact, it's a very obvious way you're going to have.

00:57:22Guest:So that's actually the seeds to a whole show.

00:57:25Guest:It's a thing, a whole outdoor thing.

00:57:27Guest:A franchise, eventually.

00:57:29Guest:So you'll have a chain of these restaurants.

00:57:31Guest:I'd like to see a field with lots of different ones, yeah.

00:57:34Marc:Imagine that.

00:57:35Marc:And other things.

00:57:36Marc:Well, I think the thing I like about this, Simon, is that it has nothing to do with show business.

00:57:41Marc:Right, thank you.

00:57:43Guest:I claim I'm still in it.

00:57:45Guest:You know that joke which ends what?

00:57:47Guest:And leave showbiz?

00:57:48Guest:Yeah.

00:57:51Marc:Do you ever find that that is an issue in terms of how you think about it?

00:57:55Marc:Like how am I going to continue making money if I'm going to be setting up outdoor art restaurants?

00:58:00Marc:Not that that's important.

00:58:01Marc:I think art is good.

00:58:02Guest:I reckon, you know, I'd charge people.

00:58:05Marc:Oh, okay.

00:58:06Guest:We're going to try it in Edinburgh this year.

00:58:08Guest:We're going to do it on Portobello Beach, top of Arthur's seat.

00:58:12Guest:I've worked out how to do it now.

00:58:13Guest:We're going to pack it down to basically the size of two massive suitcases on wheels.

00:58:18Guest:So you can take it anywhere.

00:58:19Guest:Yeah.

00:58:19Guest:Poles.

00:58:20Guest:You've got chairs, tables, dishes packed neatly, you know, so they can be flipped out.

00:58:25Guest:Bang, set it up.

00:58:26Guest:Do it.

00:58:26Guest:You make an appointment via the internet.

00:58:29Guest:A reservation.

00:58:30Guest:Yeah.

00:58:30Guest:and you do the whole thing.

00:58:32Guest:I hope it works.

00:58:34Marc:It's amazing to me that this... I can't quite explain why the history or why in Europe and in the UK and around that there's at least some appreciation of the joke of art.

00:58:46Marc:I mean, I couldn't even consider doing anything like that in America because it would be such a small thing.

00:58:51Marc:You'd have to find a very sort of specific audience that would even know the joke.

00:58:55Marc:I watched a bit of yours on YouTube about...

00:58:57Marc:explaining how your comedy is almost modern art.

00:59:01Guest:The Venn diagram.

00:59:03Marc:Which is brilliant.

00:59:04Marc:But that there's an audience for that is fascinating to me.

00:59:07Marc:Even the most alternative or hip audiences in America are not that sophisticated.

00:59:12Marc:And I think it's a privilege you guys have in a way.

00:59:17Marc:Yeah.

00:59:19Guest:Have you performed in America?

00:59:22Guest:I have, yeah, but there's another example of something that didn't used to work, the Venn diagram.

00:59:27Guest:It didn't?

00:59:27Guest:Well, again, when it doesn't work, it's offensive in that you're rubbing people's ignorance in the face.

00:59:34Guest:I'm talking about a Venn diagram.

00:59:35Guest:But if you do it the right way, you can get away with it.

00:59:38Guest:It's fine.

00:59:39Marc:No one's going to be that upset.

00:59:39Marc:It's very interesting to me that you actually see it as offensive.

00:59:43Marc:Well, in a sense, offensive.

00:59:45Marc:No, I understand.

00:59:45Guest:Like an unexploded joke.

00:59:46Marc:Right.

00:59:47Guest:To tell a joke on a stage, people are paid to laugh.

00:59:50Guest:You're told a joke that they didn't get, right?

00:59:52Guest:There's something, I think there's an awkwardness out there.

00:59:55Marc:There's definitely an awkwardness, but is the onus on you for being offensive?

00:59:59Guest:Well, it's somewhere between us.

01:00:00Guest:It's not certain who it is.

01:00:02Guest:They can blame me, I can blame them.

01:00:03Guest:They were a terrible audience.

01:00:04Guest:He was a terrible act.

01:00:06Guest:Let's call it quits.

01:00:07Marc:But have you ever gotten to the point where you're like, go home and Google this?

01:00:11Marc:It's too late for that.

01:00:13Marc:It's amazing you don't take... I mean, there's a certain humility in not taking the condescending route and saying, like, if you're offended by this, it's because you're not smart enough to get it.

01:00:24Guest:Yeah.

01:00:26Guest:I don't think there's any need to say that.

01:00:30Guest:By the way, if you're not laughing, it's because you're thick.

01:00:35Guest:I've got ten minutes now.

01:00:36Guest:I'll get ten minutes out of that.

01:00:37Guest:Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

01:00:38Guest:If you don't laugh at my act, you're stupid.

01:00:41Guest:We get that clear at the start.

01:00:43Marc:Why don't you call the show that?

01:00:45Guest:Some sort of IQ meter.

01:00:47Guest:It's all going down.

01:00:48Guest:You're not laughing.

01:00:49Guest:You're sick.

01:00:49Marc:Well, I think that's why it's lucky you don't do that.

01:00:53Marc:I don't know.

01:00:54Marc:It's lucky.

01:00:54Guest:Not luck.

01:00:56Guest:I'm a survivor.

01:00:58Guest:Well, no, it's not... If I think of something, oh, that's impossible, you just want to try it, don't you?

01:01:03Guest:It's a bit like... Right.

01:01:04Guest:League Against Eaton began to think, oh, wow, what would that be like if someone came on instead of going, hello, nice to see you, or just came on going, you are cunt, scum, just abuse.

01:01:13Marc:Right, right, right.

01:01:14Guest:So I did it, and it worked, and it was funny, but not everywhere.

01:01:17Guest:Yeah, right, right.

01:01:18Guest:And the reason I think it didn't work in Toronto or Melbourne is an English voice, particularly in America, you've got that culture, film culture anyway, of English being evil.

01:01:27Right.

01:01:27Guest:and slightly superior.

01:01:28Guest:Attention scum, you are nothing, absolutely nothing, with an English voice saying it, is very different from what I meant.

01:01:35Guest:In England, it's just like, oh, who's this bloke abusing us?

01:01:39Guest:But in the States, oh, it's an English... It must be an evil.

01:01:42Guest:The feeling I got in Toronto and in Melbourne when I did League Against the Union was people going, what's he being rude?

01:01:47Guest:Well, definitely not saying, what's he being rude to us?

01:01:50Guest:What have we done?

01:01:50Guest:You know, just rude.

01:01:52Guest:I don't really get it.

01:01:53Guest:And Toronto as well.

01:01:54Guest:Why?

01:01:55Guest:Why just be rude to us?

01:01:56Guest:Because you're different.

01:01:58Guest:It was an English act to shout at English people by an English person, I think.

01:02:03Marc:And when I watch you now, when I watch the recent show, having not known the history of you, it seems to me that you have this life.

01:02:11Marc:You've got your wife and your kids, and you've got a house.

01:02:14Marc:And what I notice, and maybe it's not true, is that you have a style that you've established, which is this kind of...

01:02:22Marc:pushing the envelope of funny and being absurd and using different elements.

01:02:25Marc:But there's also this part of you that just wants to talk about your kids and being in the country and stuff.

01:02:33Guest:My actor moment is formed like sedimentary rock over immense time and vast pressure.

01:02:39Guest:So the bits I enjoy doing, it turns out most of it's true.

01:02:43Guest:So yeah, I do like talking about bits.

01:02:44Guest:And I know, as the reviewer kindly explained, it was safe and predictable.

01:02:49Guest:Well, obviously no joke is predictable if you laugh at it, otherwise you wouldn't have laughed.

01:02:52Guest:They said that about this show?

01:02:53Guest:Yeah.

01:02:54Guest:Parts of his material, they like the restaurant, they say that's brilliant, but safe and predictable.

01:03:00Guest:Everything I say has all happened, has occurred to me, and I find interesting, funny.

01:03:05Guest:It's not edgy in any way.

01:03:07Guest:It's just stuff about, well, there's a bit.

01:03:10Guest:I don't even think about it.

01:03:11Guest:There's no point in thinking about it.

01:03:12Guest:This is what I do.

01:03:13Guest:I'm happy with it.

01:03:14Guest:Bits drop out.

01:03:15Guest:Bits come in.

01:03:16Marc:I got a good laugh out of the, it felt like you were in a Swiss cuckoo clock with a moral theme.

01:03:22Guest:Yeah, that line only goes quite long.

01:03:24Guest:That's a great line.

01:03:26Guest:And it never used to get a laugh.

01:03:27Marc:Really?

01:03:27Guest:And after a while, then once it did, and I was, no, no, that is funny.

01:03:31Guest:Just give it time.

01:03:32Guest:I just need to throw it away.

01:03:33Guest:I felt like I was in the Swiss cuckoo clock with a moral theme.

01:03:37Guest:I thought, no, that's the punchline.

01:03:39Guest:I'll put an underline under it.

01:03:41Marc:Well, people have to make that jump in their head.

01:03:43Marc:I have a hard time with audiences that aren't willing to do their side of it.

01:03:47Marc:It's not all going to be explained to you.

01:03:49Marc:You have to somehow reach into your memory and picture a Swiss cuckoo clock or you're going to be in trouble.

01:03:54Guest:Yeah.

01:03:55Guest:You're just going to sit there like that.

01:03:56Guest:And the truth is, if they're not getting it, don't go faster.

01:03:59Guest:The old counterintuitive law, they're not getting up, don't speed up.

01:04:05Guest:Basically, you've just got to accept your fate.

01:04:07Guest:Also, a little psychological trick.

01:04:09Guest:I did that last night, though.

01:04:11Guest:God damn it.

01:04:12Guest:Do you do that little trick?

01:04:15Guest:Oh, that didn't work at all.

01:04:16Guest:That went for nothing.

01:04:17Guest:Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

01:04:19Guest:Dive, dive.

01:04:20Guest:No, don't do that.

01:04:21Guest:Just think.

01:04:21Guest:They're saving up the laugh for later.

01:04:23Guest:Uh-huh.

01:04:23Guest:And often they are, and they will be.

01:04:26Guest:They pay to laugh.

01:04:27Guest:Basically, you're standing in the way of them laughing.

01:04:29Guest:Try and get out of the way, and the big wave of laughter will push through you.

01:04:32Guest:Don't let you be so important.

01:04:35Guest:But then you have that moment where I'm like, well, I guess that's the wave.

01:04:37Guest:It wasn't as big a wave as they thought.

01:04:40Guest:But it's nice to see.

01:04:41Guest:Then there'll be three big ones coming.

01:04:42Guest:They've saved it up for later.

01:04:44Guest:They just couldn't laugh, and that's all right.

01:04:46Guest:It's like surfing.

01:04:48Marc:I did that thing last night where I sped up and then like I started, have you ever done that where you do speed up and that's not working and then you just, you end bits in the middle on the first lap.

01:04:59Guest:It's going to go on to the next one.

01:05:00Guest:On the back foot.

01:05:01Guest:Yeah.

01:05:01Guest:And that back pocket is dwindling roughly half, but it's all just sand.

01:05:05Guest:There's nothing.

01:05:06Guest:So when you, what we call a bank, I don't know what you call it, but you know, you're absolute cast iron, so it's not going to fail.

01:05:11Guest:You slap that on the table.

01:05:15Guest:Right, well, just the subtle stuff left then.

01:05:17Marc:It's a horrible feeling, isn't it?

01:05:21Marc:It still is, right?

01:05:23Guest:So it's much better not to decide from the beginning.

01:05:27Guest:I'm not backing out.

01:05:27Guest:I'm going to do... I'm not going to try and... I'm just going to do what I'm going to do.

01:05:31Guest:I'm going to do what I'm going to do, take my time.

01:05:33Guest:But if something happens and someone shouts out, that's different, you deal with it.

01:05:36Guest:But just do it as well as you can.

01:05:38Guest:Also, I've done gigs in environments where you cannot hear yourself think.

01:05:42Guest:Like at Glastonbury sometimes, or this festival I did in...

01:05:45Guest:Hull, where they had a band started up in another venue.

01:05:49Guest:I was trying to tune my guitar, and it was just B. Everywhere was B. I couldn't hear the audience.

01:05:55Guest:Anyway, you just got to do it as well as you can.

01:05:57Marc:Well, that was funny the other night, you know, when you were on stage in the room you're in, which is sort of a tent or a temporary theater of some kind, the Bosco Theater, and music started about halfway through, and it was irritating me, because it was like a beatbox kind of music, and you're doing your thing, which is kind of nuanced in a

01:06:15Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck?

01:06:17Marc:I would hate to be performing in this venue.

01:06:19Marc:And then you close with the restaurant piece, which is completely beautiful absurdity.

01:06:24Marc:And I walk out.

01:06:25Marc:And did you see what's making the music?

01:06:26Guest:The White Rabbit.

01:06:27Marc:There's a guy in a bunny suit playing bass.

01:06:29Guest:Every night, he starts up.

01:06:32Marc:If the show's doing better, I bribe him to stop.

01:06:34Marc:I would, but on this level.

01:06:37Marc:I just couldn't figure out what was more absurd.

01:06:39Marc:It was your well-structured actor, me walking outside, and there's a guy in a man-sized bunny suit with a base.

01:06:44Marc:I'm like, this is like a competition.

01:06:45Marc:I don't know if Simon realizes what he's up against.

01:06:49Marc:I like when people know their own limitations, because I think so many of us are kind of childish like that.

01:06:53Marc:We just keep expecting the biggest.

01:06:56Marc:It must be interesting having children.

01:06:57Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:06:58Marc:Is it as enlightening as you thought it would be?

01:07:02Guest:It's like joining the human race.

01:07:04Marc:Yeah.

01:07:04Marc:I imagine.

01:07:05Guest:I don't know if it's going to happen for me.

01:07:06Guest:How old are your kids?

01:07:07Guest:753.

01:07:08Guest:Oh, you've got time.

01:07:09Guest:Yeah.

01:07:10Guest:It really just, you should go, ah.

01:07:13Guest:And also, it's continuous.

01:07:15Marc:It's like you're on the whole time, isn't it?

01:07:17Marc:Yeah.

01:07:18Marc:But there's part of me that thinks I can't really be a well-rounded person if I don't have a child.

01:07:25Marc:You're put in that position.

01:07:27Guest:You've never seen it from the other side.

01:07:29Guest:Suddenly you see it from any kind of resentment you had towards your parents.

01:07:36Guest:Suddenly you see it from the other side of what it was like.

01:07:40Guest:When you find yourself saying the things that your father had said to you.

01:07:43Guest:You go, ah, yeah, okay.

01:07:46Marc:That's the way it has to go.

01:07:47Guest:Because I say so.

01:07:48Guest:Yes, we're crossing the road.

01:07:51Guest:Oh my god Yeah Humanize you a bit somehow.

01:07:57Guest:Yeah, I'm really glad and also love absolutely amazing how much you love these creatures Yes, babies.

01:08:04Guest:I never you said no interest in babies.

01:08:06Guest:Nothing.

01:08:06Guest:Yeah, like someone's got a baby.

01:08:07Guest:Oh good.

01:08:08Guest:No, I don't want to hold it.

01:08:08Guest:Yeah.

01:08:09Guest:Yeah.

01:08:09Guest:Yeah, like off good job.

01:08:10Guest:Yeah

01:08:11Guest:And then suddenly, I just see a baby now, my heart goes... Oh, really?

01:08:14Guest:I go, oh, little ones.

01:08:17Guest:You know, like, they're the most beautiful, funny... They have to be cute.

01:08:21Guest:It's not fittest, it's the cutest.

01:08:23Guest:Yeah.

01:08:24Guest:So they learn to do that, and they come at you running as well.

01:08:27Guest:There's no better mirror than a child.

01:08:29Guest:They know you're every... Eleanor, can you tidy your room?

01:08:33Guest:Well, yours isn't tidy.

01:08:35Guest:Your office is the least tidy room in this house.

01:08:38Guest:I go...

01:08:38Guest:Okay Good point good point the other day they're all asleep well We've got a lot of trouble getting over the jet lags.

01:08:46Guest:I got over it, but they then they done She's going her it's 5 a.m.

01:08:50Guest:I'm saying look if you could just maybe just try and sleep for another hour Right and then that way day by day.

01:08:55Guest:We'll get more on Australian time.

01:08:57Guest:Yeah People are sleeping still she opens the curtain looks out goes well

01:09:02Guest:There's cars and buses moving around.

01:09:04Marc:You win.

01:09:08Marc:You win.

01:09:09Marc:That's awesome.

01:09:10Marc:Well, hello, it was great talking to you.

01:09:12Marc:I knew.

01:09:12Marc:I think it's sort of sad reflection on my country that we don't know you guys.

01:09:16Marc:And I don't know how that's going to happen.

01:09:18Marc:Like Stuart Lee is another one where I did an hour with him and no one really knew who he was in my country except a few people.

01:09:25Marc:And it's sort of a tragedy that doesn't go back and forth as much.

01:09:30Marc:How can we make that happen, Simon?

01:09:32Marc:I don't know.

01:09:32Guest:You have to talk to your... It's my side.

01:09:35Marc:It's on my side.

01:09:36Guest:Yeah.

01:09:37Guest:Talk to your people.

01:09:38Guest:I'll talk to my people.

01:09:39Guest:And we'll make it happen.

01:09:40Guest:Then we could talk to each other's people.

01:09:42Marc:And we'll make it an international event.

01:09:43Marc:It's a people thing.

01:09:44Guest:People talk to me.

01:09:45Guest:Don't worry.

01:09:45Guest:It'll happen.

01:09:46Guest:Whatever needs to happen will happen.

01:09:47Marc:Okay.

01:09:48Marc:All right.

01:09:48Marc:Well, thanks for talking.

01:09:49Marc:Okay.

01:09:55Marc:All right.

01:09:55Marc:That's been my show from Australia.

01:09:57Marc:The last one.

01:09:59Marc:I hope everything goes well on the way back.

01:10:02Marc:Gotta get panicky.

01:10:04Marc:But I just don't like flying over water.

01:10:08Marc:I really don't like flying over water.

01:10:10Marc:I don't like the idea.

01:10:11Marc:I'd rather they find my whatever's left of me.

01:10:17Marc:This is grim.

01:10:18Marc:I've had a great time here.

01:10:19Marc:I want to thank the festival, the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.

01:10:22Marc:We'll be right back.

01:10:48Marc:Or there's a bunch of them up there.

01:10:51Marc:That's the WTFPodShop.com.

01:10:53Marc:JustCoffee.coop.

01:10:54Marc:Sorry, I've been neglecting you, but I've been in Australia drinking some kick-ass Australian coffee.

01:11:01Marc:Pow!

01:11:02Marc:Not the same, but good.

01:11:04Marc:Wait.

01:11:05Marc:I'm going to be in Canada.

01:11:07Marc:Did I mention that?

01:11:09Marc:Oh, boy.

01:11:10Marc:I've got to mention my gigs.

01:11:11Marc:Hold on.

01:11:12Marc:Let's see where it is.

01:11:13Marc:Laugh Shop in Calgary.

01:11:16Marc:Here I come.

01:11:17Marc:All right.

01:11:18Marc:Goodbye, Australia.

01:11:19Marc:Hello, Canada.