Episode 1674 - Tim Heidecker

Episode 1674 • Released September 1, 2025 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how are you doing

00:00:21Marc:The first episode of WTF was posted 16 years ago today.

00:00:29Marc:16 years ago today.

00:00:32Marc:16 years ago.

00:00:35Marc:And I remember at the beginning of this show, when we were doing it in the old garage, when I'd moved it to Highland Park, and it was still just a garage.

00:00:46Marc:There was just clutter in there and a table and my MacBook and these big clunky microphones.

00:00:52Marc:I have measured my life through Shure SM7 and SM58 microphones.

00:00:59Marc:That is really the truth.

00:01:01Marc:You know, T.S.

00:01:01Marc:Eliot may have done it with coffee spoons, but for me, it's been SM7s, SM58s on stage and in my garage.

00:01:12Marc:But there at the beginning, it was totally new.

00:01:15Marc:I remember at the beginning where I thought ads would diminish what we were doing.

00:01:20Marc:I don't really ever call myself punk rock, and I don't see myself as punk rock, but I do remember it was a big adjustment for me to actually...

00:01:28Marc:Start doing ads on the show that that it was never, I guess, my intention to make money.

00:01:37Marc:I just wanted to do this thing that not many people were doing, and it was all new.

00:01:42Marc:And I thought ads would clutter it up.

00:01:43Marc:And I made an exception for Just Coffee.

00:01:46Marc:And I made an exception for Adam and Eve because they seemed like scrappy companies.

00:01:50Marc:But obviously, over time, it became clear that not unlike other broadcasts, ads were going to generate revenue.

00:01:57Marc:We tried a lot of different ways to generate revenue.

00:01:59Marc:But I do remember...

00:02:01Marc:Not only was it a big concession for me personally on some level to do ads, but also that I did not want to be seen as an interviewer.

00:02:11Marc:I didn't I wanted to make sure people knew I was a comic.

00:02:14Marc:And it was my the first few years of this show were fraught.

00:02:18Marc:With me realizing that the show's kind of impact was about me having conversations with people.

00:02:23Marc:And it was just, I just was like, but I'm a comic.

00:02:27Marc:And that's really where the monologues came from.

00:02:29Marc:I knew they didn't have to be funny.

00:02:31Marc:But at the beginning, I was going to try to be funny every time.

00:02:34Marc:But then I realized it's a much broader kind of outlet or medium for me to explore who I am.

00:02:40Marc:I have measured my life.

00:02:42Marc:through this microphone and through the microphones I use on stage in a very real way.

00:02:48Marc:It's all there.

00:02:51Marc:Some days I think I should check back in with it.

00:02:54Marc:I mean, when I think about those early episodes, when I think that we have done however many we have done, 1,600, oh my God, where are we at now?

00:03:02Marc:1,600 and what?

00:03:05Marc:What is it?

00:03:06Marc:Episode 1,673 last week.

00:03:10Marc:So this is 1674.

00:03:11Marc:And to look at the fucking guest list is I can't believe it because my memories are just relative to those moments.

00:03:22Marc:And just like anybody else, 16 years ago,

00:03:26Marc:And to think that I've gone through, you know, three cats have passed.

00:03:30Marc:One was taken away by an ex.

00:03:32Marc:One was taken away by coyotes.

00:03:36Marc:I had to put down a stray cat that was sick.

00:03:39Marc:Another feral cat died under my old house.

00:03:43Marc:Another one was...

00:03:44Marc:hit by a car.

00:03:45Marc:Another Pharaoh was hit by a car out in front of the house.

00:03:48Marc:The death black cat who many of you remember from the old days, he was, he was taken away by coyotes.

00:03:54Marc:You know, I've gone through several different relationships.

00:03:57Marc:I've gone through people passing.

00:04:00Marc:I've gone through guests passing.

00:04:02Marc:I've gone through my own turmoil professionally and personally.

00:04:07Marc:And it's, it's crazy to,

00:04:09Marc:It's crazy.

00:04:10Marc:When I look at this, it's in alphabetical order on the site under WTF people.

00:04:17Marc:I mean, it's fucking nuts.

00:04:21Marc:I got to be honest with you.

00:04:22Marc:Some of these people I don't remember talking to.

00:04:26Marc:And that's sort of sad because Brendan's the guy, Brendan McDonald, he remembers a lot of them because he spends a lot more time with them.

00:04:34Marc:The only time I hear these episodes is when I'm doing them.

00:04:38Marc:And it's crazy.

00:04:40Marc:I mean, I'm just looking at just strange ones.

00:04:44Marc:I mean, I'm looking at this list.

00:04:47Marc:I can't even reel off names because there are just so many.

00:04:51Marc:I'm looking at Alan Alda.

00:04:54Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:04:55Marc:Alan Ruck, Alan Bursky, Albert Brooks, the Daniels, Danny Boyle.

00:05:01Marc:I can't.

00:05:03Marc:What?

00:05:04Marc:Jed Mayhew from the Zig Zags.

00:05:08Marc:Jeff Baina, rest in peace.

00:05:09Marc:Jeff Bridges.

00:05:11Marc:Mark Rebo, the guitar player.

00:05:13Marc:Margot Price, who I still kind of follow on Instagram.

00:05:18Marc:Oh, Rosie Perez, Roy Wood Jr.

00:05:21Marc:Sally Kellerman, rest in peace.

00:05:23Marc:Sally Struthers, wow.

00:05:25Marc:Sam Elliott, well, that didn't go well.

00:05:27Marc:Mary Mack, what's Mary Mack up to?

00:05:30Marc:Oh, my God.

00:05:32Marc:Matt McCarthy, I can't believe this.

00:05:35Marc:Jim Short, rest in peace.

00:05:37Marc:Oh, boy.

00:05:38Marc:Jimmy Walker, crazy.

00:05:39Marc:I just, Michael Chiklis, Michael Douglas.

00:05:43Marc:I cannot believe this list of people, people.

00:05:46Marc:I cannot.

00:05:47Marc:Drew Carey, Duff, Dylan Moran.

00:05:52Marc:Oh, Ed Krasnick.

00:05:53Marc:I just saw him in the Sopranos.

00:05:55Marc:What's wonder what he's up to.

00:05:56Marc:I can't.

00:05:59Marc:It's it's all it hasn't flown by, but it is kind of crazy.

00:06:06Marc:You know, my commitment to this thing and with such an urgency, with such a focus.

00:06:13Marc:that I think a lot of what I have is it must be some sort of, you know, PTSD.

00:06:20Marc:Because that's 673, 74 episodes, every one of which I experienced some sort of mild to deep panic going into them.

00:06:29Marc:And I was fully engaged in all of them.

00:06:34Marc:I've never been able to autopilot.

00:06:36Marc:And I have to assume that that's not trauma, but it is a lot of energy and a lot of output.

00:06:45Marc:And I remember when we moved out of the old house and moved into this place, just the panic of getting the sound right in this place.

00:06:53Marc:And now people come over and they're like, is this where Obama was?

00:06:57Marc:I have to say no, but that is the chair he sat in.

00:07:00Marc:And sometimes I'll take people upstairs into the office in my house, which is really where all of the original artifacts and books and everything that cluttered the old garage reside now.

00:07:13Marc:And I have to be honest with you, that room, which I don't spend enough time in, is a magic room in my house.

00:07:21Marc:There's a piece there.

00:07:23Marc:That I don't know if it's because of the house or because of the history or if I'm going to get mystical because of whatever may have happened in that room.

00:07:32Marc:But I've grown to believe that it's probably because everything that really is the history of that show.

00:07:40Marc:The original bookshelves, the books, the tchotchkes, the bits and pieces of ephemera that were cluttering in a fairly organized way.

00:07:49Marc:The old garage are all up there.

00:07:51Marc:And I guess when I want to feel the weight and depth and kind of...

00:07:58Marc:Beauty of the history of the show, it's up there now.

00:08:01Marc:And sometimes I sit in there and it's almost meditative.

00:08:05Marc:It's almost like a kind of peace comes over me of something, you know, that was important to me and very deep to me, but also very deep to everybody else who listened to it.

00:08:19Marc:It's kind of crazy because time is garbage now and attention is garbage now.

00:08:26Marc:And our sense of time has been completely fractured by the gift of technology that we hold in our hands or sit in front of all day.

00:08:36Marc:I really think it's kind of fucked with it.

00:08:39Marc:But I do find that in these moments of quiet that...

00:08:45Marc:The past is hard to reckon with because all you have are bits and pieces of memories and moments that get rearranged and reinterpreted and embellished in your mind.

00:09:00Marc:But again, I do know that if need be, if I need to check in with me, I can go back 16 years and start there and just listen to the life I've measured myself.

00:09:13Marc:through Shure SM7 microphones here in front of these sound waves and across from 1,670-some-odd people over the period of 16 years.

00:09:30Marc:It's all there.

00:09:31Marc:It's all in sequence.

00:09:32Marc:Not in my mind, but in the world.

00:09:36Marc:Yeah, heavy business.

00:09:39Marc:Today, Tim Heidecker is on the show.

00:09:41Marc:He's been on a couple of times, once by himself, once with Eric Wareheim.

00:09:46Marc:And he's softened.

00:09:48Marc:I found him very kind of intimidating in some weird way because I never knew whether or not he was fucking with me.

00:09:54Marc:But he's sort of settled into himself.

00:09:56Marc:He's a nicer guy.

00:09:58Marc:He has a weekly streaming show called Office Hours, as well as the On Cinema show he does with Greg Turkington.

00:10:05Marc:My next show at Largo with the band is on Wednesday, September 10th.

00:10:10Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets.

00:10:14Marc:So Tim Heidecker is here.

00:10:16Marc:You can go to officialofficehours.com to check out all the ways to watch and listen to Office Hours Live and go to timheidecker.com for links to everything else he does.

00:10:25Marc:He's an interesting guy.

00:10:27Marc:And as I said before, he's a nicer guy.

00:10:30Marc:This is me talking to Tim Heidecker.

00:10:35Marc:You're going to knock down all the walls?

00:10:42Marc:I don't know.

00:10:43Marc:I'm a little claustrophobic, to be honest with you.

00:10:47Marc:Well, it's all movable.

00:10:48Marc:You're really not that locked in.

00:10:49Marc:I'm okay.

00:10:50Marc:I'm okay.

00:10:50Marc:If you needed to scream running out of here.

00:10:55Marc:You could knock all this.

00:10:56Guest:You know what I'm nervous about is my ice and my coffee.

00:10:59Marc:Yeah, well, that's going to be a Brendan problem.

00:11:03Marc:And, you know, he'll probably be annoyed by it.

00:11:06Guest:If this is going to be the last one, I'd hate it to be so.

00:11:08Marc:Well, between us, not the very last one, but maybe between us.

00:11:12Marc:Really?

00:11:13Marc:Well, I mean, in terms of you being on here.

00:11:15Guest:Well, yes, it'll be my last.

00:11:17Marc:Is it a third time?

00:11:18Marc:Probably?

00:11:18Marc:Yeah, once with Eric.

00:11:20Marc:Ron, do you remember Eric?

00:11:24Marc:Here we go.

00:11:25Marc:I forgot to bring my... Your shield?

00:11:27Marc:Yeah.

00:11:28Marc:You remember Eric.

00:11:30Marc:Yeah, once with him and then once for that odd movie that you were in.

00:11:34Marc:Yeah.

00:11:34Marc:You remember that one?

00:11:35Marc:Do I remember the comedy?

00:11:38Guest:Yeah.

00:11:38Marc:What was it called again?

00:11:39Marc:The Comedy.

00:11:40Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:11:40Marc:Yeah.

00:11:40Marc:It was a disturbing movie.

00:11:41Guest:Yeah.

00:11:42Guest:It was good.

00:11:43Guest:A lot of good ones are.

00:11:45Guest:Yeah.

00:11:47Guest:Yeah, I haven't watched it in a while, but I'm this... Are you able to watch yourself?

00:11:51Yeah.

00:11:51Guest:I don't get as much—I don't really enjoy it when I'm not in control of it.

00:11:56Marc:Oh, in terms of watching yourself?

00:11:58Guest:Yeah.

00:11:58Guest:Like, if it's our stuff, it's fun.

00:12:00Guest:Yeah.

00:12:00Marc:But— Because you guys know what you're going for.

00:12:03Marc:Yeah.

00:12:04Marc:With other people, they just use you how they will.

00:12:06Guest:Yeah.

00:12:07Marc:Cut out the good moments.

00:12:08Guest:Yeah, and I'm—I mean, you maybe feel this way.

00:12:11Marc:Yeah.

00:12:12Guest:You get older and you start seeing yourself as an older person.

00:12:16Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:12:16Guest:And you see that you see it on camera.

00:12:18Marc:Well, you're looking good.

00:12:20Yeah.

00:12:20Marc:I mean, do you have that?

00:12:21Guest:That's what I was fishing for.

00:12:22Marc:Yeah.

00:12:22Marc:Well, I mean, what?

00:12:23Marc:You're not that old.

00:12:24Marc:I mean, I'm fucking old.

00:12:25Marc:I'm 27.

00:12:26Marc:Oh, so you are getting up there.

00:12:28Guest:I'm going to be 50 in February.

00:12:30Marc:Yeah?

00:12:31Guest:Which is kind of weird to me.

00:12:32Marc:You lost weight.

00:12:33Marc:You leaned up.

00:12:34Marc:You look healthy.

00:12:35Marc:Thank you.

00:12:35Marc:I mean, I'm going to be 62.

00:12:37Marc:And even if I'm lean and I'm healthy, there's some things you can't stop.

00:12:42Marc:Yes.

00:12:42Marc:You're not really there yet.

00:12:43Marc:Like, I can see you without teeth.

00:12:46Marc:That's a definite possibility.

00:12:48Marc:My gums are not great.

00:12:50Guest:I did see a picture of me with you from when I was in here 12 years ago.

00:12:55Marc:I can't.

00:12:55Guest:It's hard, right?

00:12:56Guest:We both look good.

00:12:57Guest:Well, I look very noticeably puffier.

00:13:00Marc:Pudgy.

00:13:01Guest:Yeah.

00:13:01Guest:Were you drunky?

00:13:02Guest:No, I wasn't drunky.

00:13:03Guest:Just eating.

00:13:04Guest:Yeah.

00:13:04Guest:And I lost weight.

00:13:06Guest:It's coming back.

00:13:07Guest:I don't know what to do.

00:13:08Guest:The weight's coming back?

00:13:09Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:13:09Guest:Well, there's a lot of options for celebrities like you.

00:13:12Guest:You know what, Mark, when I got, I lost weight.

00:13:15Guest:Yeah.

00:13:16Guest:And that's all anyone said.

00:13:17Marc:Yeah.

00:13:18Guest:And it's just, I'm here to say I wasn't using any of that stuff.

00:13:23Marc:You weren't that heavy to where you would need to.

00:13:25Marc:I feel like people who do that are heavy, heavy.

00:13:28Marc:I guess.

00:13:29Guest:Maybe.

00:13:30Guest:I don't know.

00:13:30Guest:I never got the credit for doing the hard work.

00:13:33Marc:Oh, we'll give it to you now.

00:13:34Guest:Yeah, thank you.

00:13:35Marc:Let's celebrate Tim's work.

00:13:38Yeah.

00:13:38Marc:On doing his weight loss organically.

00:13:42Guest:Yeah.

00:13:42Marc:Why is it coming back?

00:13:43Marc:Are you drifting?

00:13:43Guest:Are you not working out?

00:13:44Guest:Are you eating shitty?

00:13:45Guest:I don't know.

00:13:46Guest:I don't know.

00:13:48Guest:I got to change something.

00:13:49Guest:I think I got... You plateau, don't you?

00:13:52Guest:Is that the thing?

00:13:52Guest:You plateau?

00:13:53Guest:And then I did give up on the thing a little bit.

00:13:55Guest:I guess you plateau.

00:13:56Guest:I don't know.

00:13:57Guest:I stopped doing the shot.

00:13:58Guest:I mean, not the shot.

00:13:59Guest:What do you say?

00:14:00Guest:Yeah.

00:14:00Guest:If I just outed myself.

00:14:02Guest:Stop doing the what?

00:14:02Guest:The shot.

00:14:03Marc:I was going to joke that I accidentally... No.

00:14:05No.

00:14:05Marc:But it's all a lie.

00:14:07Marc:You've been shooting up since it first came out.

00:14:10Guest:Yeah, I've been using needles, but not... Not Ozambic?

00:14:13Guest:Not Ozambic.

00:14:14Guest:Just aspirin.

00:14:14Guest:Straight heroin.

00:14:15Marc:Straight heroin.

00:14:18Marc:So, a couple things I'm curious about, I guess.

00:14:23Marc:What are you going to do on this?

00:14:24Marc:I guess.

00:14:26Guest:If I have to be.

00:14:28Guest:By the way, let me say, yesterday you wrote me to ask to come in, and it was, I don't believe in spiritual stuff, but that morning I was watching, my friend made a documentary about Gallagher.

00:14:41Guest:Oh, God.

00:14:42Guest:And so I was watching this documentary.

00:14:44Guest:Am I in there?

00:14:44Guest:Yeah, you are.

00:14:45Guest:He used the footage?

00:14:46Guest:He used the audio.

00:14:47Guest:Yeah, that's all there is.

00:14:48Guest:I hope...

00:14:49Guest:Sure, it's high on me.

00:14:50Guest:I'm sure they're going through the proper channels.

00:14:52Guest:I don't know.

00:14:53Guest:I haven't heard from them.

00:14:54Guest:Sorry, we just let people.

00:14:56Guest:It's a great documentary.

00:14:56Guest:I mean, yeah.

00:14:57Guest:But anyways, it was- Does it show him in a good light?

00:15:01Guest:It's a full picture.

00:15:03Marc:Yeah.

00:15:03Guest:Yeah.

00:15:04Guest:It's the whole story.

00:15:05Guest:And so some of it is, yes.

00:15:06Marc:I tried to do that, but it just went sideways.

00:15:09Marc:I know, right away.

00:15:10Marc:Went sideways immediately.

00:15:11Marc:Who doesn't want to play state fairs?

00:15:13Yeah.

00:15:14Guest:It was great.

00:15:15Guest:And the best line maybe in podcast history is, Gallagher.

00:15:20Marc:What was it?

00:15:21Marc:Come on, Gallagher.

00:15:24Marc:Come on, Gallagher.

00:15:26Marc:Now I know what you're trying to do.

00:15:28Marc:Yeah.

00:15:29Guest:It's a legendary moment.

00:15:30Guest:Sorry to interrupt.

00:15:31Guest:You're somewhat curious.

00:15:33Marc:You're going to start building a new set?

00:15:36Marc:I saw an ad that you're workshopping something.

00:15:39Guest:Oh, my God.

00:15:40Guest:I really stepped in it.

00:15:41Guest:What do you mean?

00:15:42Guest:Well, this is dumb, but I – yeah, I was going to try to do a couple – some new things at the Elysian, and they said, what do you want to call it?

00:15:49Guest:And I just said, I don't know, like I'm working it out.

00:15:51Guest:That's kind of an expression, right?

00:15:54Guest:That's okay, yeah.

00:15:54Guest:But that's Berbiglia's podcast.

00:15:57Marc:It's called Working It Out.

00:15:58Marc:Yeah, I called my last tour All In, and that's Chris Hayes' show.

00:16:01Guest:Oh, that's right.

00:16:03Guest:You can't copyright these things.

00:16:04Marc:No, no.

00:16:05Guest:I'm having them change it to Working On It, which I'm sure is somebody else's podcast.

00:16:09Marc:Working On It, I'm sure, yeah.

00:16:12Marc:What are you going to do?

00:16:13Guest:I don't know.

00:16:13Guest:I've been going out and doing things.

00:16:15Guest:I go out and I have some jokes.

00:16:17Guest:I have some PowerPoint presentation kind of things.

00:16:19Guest:You do PowerPoint?

00:16:20Guest:Some Keynote.

00:16:21Guest:Yeah, I guess I use Keynote, but it's PowerPoint.

00:16:23Marc:Do you, but do you actually do keynotes?

00:16:25Marc:Yeah.

00:16:26Marc:You do?

00:16:27Marc:Yeah.

00:16:27Marc:Like you're asked to, would you come speak?

00:16:29Guest:Oh, no, not like that.

00:16:30Marc:No, not in a real way.

00:16:31Guest:I just use the tool as like to show, to like kind of walk through something.

00:16:34Guest:In a funny way.

00:16:35Guest:Yeah.

00:16:35Guest:But what I've been doing, one of the things I do is I collect YouTube comments.

00:16:42Guest:Yeah.

00:16:42Guest:And I find, I go down deep into the bowels of, you know, people talking.

00:16:49Guest:Well, no, not just not like, you know, if you find like a Simon and Garfunkel video.

00:16:57Guest:Right.

00:16:57Guest:And just the conversations that happen in the bowels of those comments are fascinating.

00:17:01Guest:Yeah.

00:17:02Marc:Why?

00:17:02Marc:Because they become personal.

00:17:04Guest:They get argumentative.

00:17:05Guest:Yeah.

00:17:06Marc:About the nature of I am a rock.

00:17:08Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:17:09Guest:What does it really mean?

00:17:11Guest:It was the one that I loved, which was... It was an interview with Paul Simon.

00:17:16Guest:Do you talk to Paul Simon?

00:17:18Marc:No, I never did.

00:17:19Guest:He was talking to Howard Stern, and they had clipped out one of the videos, and it was like...

00:17:24Guest:Why they broke up.

00:17:27Guest:Yeah.

00:17:27Guest:And it's a great story if you don't know it.

00:17:29Guest:It's just like a very hard time for him.

00:17:32Guest:And there's a lot of dimensions to it.

00:17:35Guest:Yeah.

00:17:36Guest:And someone underneath said, LOL, because no one cared anymore.

00:17:41Marc:Well, that's not – that's just – But those are just – I always wonder – like I still can't really tell the difference between what a bot is and what a bot means.

00:17:54Marc:Right.

00:17:54Marc:You know, does a bot just churn out a variety of AI-generated u-cucks?

00:17:59Marc:Right.

00:18:00Marc:Right.

00:18:00Guest:Yeah, I don't know what the game is, like what the benefits are.

00:18:05Marc:But just general faceless kind of trolling, I always try to picture like what kind of fuck would just sit there and decide to be like, I'm going to do this.

00:18:15Marc:Yeah.

00:18:15Marc:I'm going to say this.

00:18:16Guest:Well, I want to gather, I want to like get them together in a convention and just check in with them.

00:18:21Marc:Sure.

00:18:22Guest:Are you guys doing all right?

00:18:23Guest:Let them do it out loud.

00:18:24Marc:Yeah.

00:18:24Marc:You know, say something and then just pick on somebody.

00:18:26Marc:Yeah.

00:18:27Marc:You, random guy number seven.

00:18:29Guest:Yeah, or like if I announced a show, somebody would put like the snore emoji.

00:18:34Marc:All right, well, what?

00:18:35Marc:What's the problem?

00:18:37Marc:But it's such a kind of expression of what?

00:18:43Marc:Like I still don't know –

00:18:45Marc:I feel like I understand people to some degree.

00:18:48Marc:Yeah.

00:18:48Marc:And that, you know, I act in pretty good faith and I do – some part of me still believes that people are inherently decent.

00:18:56Marc:But that – I don't know that that's true anymore.

00:18:58Marc:Yeah.

00:18:58Marc:But I really don't know how somebody –

00:19:01Marc:surrenders their identity completely for a hateful position.

00:19:10Marc:And it happens to people that you know, kind of.

00:19:15Marc:Sure.

00:19:15Marc:And it's just like these people are just out there spewing garbage.

00:19:20Marc:That's hurtful constantly.

00:19:22Guest:And I also love the ignorance.

00:19:25Guest:I don't get it.

00:19:26Guest:I don't understand this.

00:19:27Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:19:28Marc:I don't know who you are.

00:19:29Marc:Yeah, no one cares.

00:19:29Marc:Yeah, I like that one.

00:19:31Marc:No one.

00:19:31Marc:I'm speaking for everyone.

00:19:33Marc:For everybody.

00:19:33Marc:Yeah, no one cares.

00:19:34Marc:Yeah.

00:19:35Guest:But why does it bother us?

00:19:37Guest:Does it bother you?

00:19:38Guest:Well, I sound bitter if I say it bothers me.

00:19:41Marc:Well, you just sound sensitive.

00:19:43Guest:Well, I am sensitive and I think it's interesting, like you say, it's interesting to look at the human condition.

00:19:50Marc:Well, it's just shitty that we've had to adapt.

00:19:51Marc:We've had to build this callus.

00:19:53Marc:Because if you're going to engage with that shit and whether you're doing it compulsively or not, if you're just going to browse through the comments, someone's going to say something hurtful.

00:20:02Marc:It does hurt for a second.

00:20:03Marc:And then you just have to be like, well, that's just part of life.

00:20:06Marc:I'm not going to respond.

00:20:07Guest:But it's a new part of life.

00:20:09Guest:I feel like we're not trained or conditioned for it because you and I or everybody I know in the arts, a lot of people are very disciplined about not caring or not even looking at that stuff.

00:20:19Guest:But we...

00:20:20Guest:This is kind of a version of what we grew up wanting to do.

00:20:24Guest:Yeah.

00:20:25Guest:Is to entertain or to amuse and to perform for people.

00:20:30Guest:Right.

00:20:30Guest:And now there's a way, a mechanism to see what people think of you.

00:20:35Guest:Yeah.

00:20:35Guest:And we want to see.

00:20:36Marc:It's fun to see that.

00:20:37Marc:Yeah, but you got to sort it out.

00:20:39Marc:Yes.

00:20:39Marc:And then once you become labeled as something.

00:20:42Marc:Right.

00:20:42Marc:an enemy of certain people, then it's a whole other game.

00:20:46Guest:Of course.

00:20:47Guest:And I've become an enemy for a long... I've been an enemy for a lot of people for a long time.

00:20:52Marc:When did it shift, though?

00:20:53Marc:Like, was there... Because it feels like Tim and Eric was a specific thing for a specific audience, and whatever pushback you got, for whatever reason, had to be pretty ridiculous.

00:21:04Guest:Sure, yeah.

00:21:05Guest:I mean, it was ignored, or it was... You know, back in those days, the...

00:21:11Guest:The Adult Swim audience definitely had what you would then recognize as sort of a 4chan-y kind of.

00:21:18Marc:Oh, it did.

00:21:18Marc:Yeah.

00:21:19Marc:But before it became toxic?

00:21:20Guest:Before we had a word for it.

00:21:21Guest:Yeah.

00:21:22Guest:Well, it was toxic.

00:21:24Guest:But it was just personal-based, not politically-based?

00:21:27Marc:Yeah.

00:21:28Guest:Before Pepe the Frog?

00:21:30Guest:Yeah, a little.

00:21:31Guest:Yes.

00:21:31Guest:Before.

00:21:32Guest:Yeah.

00:21:32Guest:I remember like seeing the initial reactions to our first show and it was full of just these F words.

00:21:41Guest:These guys there must there.

00:21:44Guest:They hope they die of AIDS.

00:21:46Guest:Really?

00:21:46Guest:Yeah.

00:21:46Guest:Like right away.

00:21:48Guest:Yeah.

00:21:48Guest:So that was the language.

00:21:50Guest:around us from the beginning so that was gamer nerd anger yeah I guess so and I imagine a lot of your fans lived in that world I guess so yeah and we also made I think the other thing was I think we did eventually we those people also became fans of ours or sort of the nihilistic sure you know troll type folks but nihilism they probably liked you

00:22:19Guest:That's what I mean.

00:22:20Guest:Yeah, they did.

00:22:21Guest:And I felt that way.

00:22:23Guest:There's times where I feel that way, too, you know, but when I became I guess when I became kind of more politically outspoken, those people saw me as like a betrayal of.

00:22:35Marc:But also that was their new game.

00:22:38Guest:You know, they were radicalized.

00:22:39Guest:I heard you say that.

00:22:40Guest:The gamification of this stuff is very real.

00:22:43Marc:Yeah, right.

00:22:44Marc:They were kind of radicalized by that guy with the Greek-sounding name.

00:22:49Marc:Mayo?

00:22:50Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:51Marc:What's his name?

00:22:52Marc:Milo.

00:22:53Marc:Milo.

00:22:54Marc:Yeah, by him and Bannon.

00:22:56Marc:And then they just began to approach political speak as a troll game.

00:23:02Guest:Yes, and I saw it coming a little bit, and then that summer of 2016.

00:23:07Guest:Was that post Tim and Eric or during?

00:23:08Guest:Well, 2016 would have been a little post Tim and Eric.

00:23:11Guest:But, yeah, I think, I mean, Eric and I have always kind of done stuff, but we were past our prime a little bit in 2016.

00:23:23Guest:How's he doing?

00:23:23Guest:He's good.

00:23:24Guest:Yeah?

00:23:25Guest:He's like a— Food guy.

00:23:26Guest:Food guy.

00:23:26Guest:Well, now he's like a plant guy.

00:23:28Guest:Oh, he's plants now.

00:23:29Guest:Have you seen this?

00:23:30Guest:No.

00:23:30Guest:And food and everything.

00:23:31Guest:But at first I didn't understand.

00:23:36Marc:You're doing a bit.

00:23:37Guest:Come on, you're doing a bit.

00:23:38Guest:What is this now?

00:23:40Guest:But he's an artist.

00:23:41Guest:He really is.

00:23:41Guest:And it's like when you see what he's actually doing with it.

00:23:44Marc:With plants?

00:23:45Marc:With plants.

00:23:46Marc:Oh, interesting.

00:23:46Guest:Yeah.

00:23:47Guest:I mean, they're just like, you know, what would you call it?

00:23:51Guest:Landscape design kind of thing.

00:23:53Guest:Sure.

00:23:53Marc:Really?

00:23:53Marc:So he's out there doing that for people?

00:23:56Guest:In a way you could not believe.

00:23:57Guest:Really?

00:23:58Guest:From what I can understand.

00:23:59Guest:But we're still, yeah.

00:24:01Guest:He gets hired?

00:24:03Guest:I think he's building a business.

00:24:05Marc:To do landscaping, to do plant design.

00:24:09Guest:Yeah.

00:24:09Marc:Whatever it's called.

00:24:11Marc:As far as I can tell.

00:24:13Marc:Nick Kroll's wife works with plants.

00:24:14Marc:There you go.

00:24:15Marc:But that's specifically for art, it seems.

00:24:18Guest:Yeah.

00:24:19Guest:No, you know, it seems – again, I thought, like, okay, what is this?

00:24:25Guest:And then I could see – I went over to see what he's doing, and I'm like, again, he's just – he's got an artist's eye.

00:24:31Guest:Yeah.

00:24:31Guest:And he's, I think –

00:24:33Guest:So he moves from one thing to another a little bit, and this is a thing that he's doing, and I'm impressed by it.

00:24:39Marc:It's innocuous and organic.

00:24:41Guest:No one's going to be like, you fucking hack.

00:24:43Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:24:44Guest:Nice work with the bushes.

00:24:46Guest:Yeah, and he always knows what he's talking about, too.

00:24:49Guest:So he's telling me about these Australian...

00:24:51Guest:I love that.

00:24:52Guest:And it's just like, wow, you're really passionate about it.

00:24:55Guest:And I have to respect that.

00:24:56Guest:But when can we meet for lunch to talk about a movie?

00:24:59Marc:A movie where people are throwing up and there's a lot of fluence and stuff.

00:25:04Guest:So we still have the flame to do that.

00:25:09Marc:What would you do if you did a new Tim and Eric movie?

00:25:11Guest:Oh, well, we have a couple of ideas.

00:25:14Guest:Yeah.

00:25:15Guest:But it probably something in the horror.

00:25:20Guest:Horror?

00:25:21Guest:Horror-y.

00:25:22Guest:Seems like horror is a new place for real artists to work.

00:25:25Guest:They get funded, you know?

00:25:26Guest:Yeah, because.

00:25:27Guest:Because you can kind of like go in the back door.

00:25:29Guest:Right.

00:25:29Guest:I mean, I think like Lynch, David Lynch kind of played in that world too.

00:25:32Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:33Guest:Because you're like, well, this is actually, it's like a horror mystery, but I'm also going to make it, I'm just going to.

00:25:38Marc:Well, yeah, you can do whatever you want if you hit certain beats that they think they can sell to that audience.

00:25:43Marc:And that happens all the time.

00:25:44Marc:All these great young directors are doing horror because they have total freedom.

00:25:49Guest:And we did a show 10 years ago now called Bedtime Stories.

00:25:52Guest:Yeah, I like that.

00:25:54Guest:Which was like horror movies in short form.

00:25:56Guest:Yeah.

00:25:57Guest:I think that would be what we would do.

00:25:59Guest:That's exciting.

00:26:00Guest:Yeah.

00:26:00Marc:Yeah.

00:26:01Marc:Now, okay, so let's talk about this, you know, because I have been embarking on a bit of music.

00:26:06Marc:Yes.

00:26:07Marc:And I do okay with it.

00:26:08Marc:Yeah.

00:26:10Marc:You got guitars and amps.

00:26:12Marc:Well, no, but it took me a lot to play out and to, you know, I finally found a group of musicians that have time to rehearse.

00:26:19Marc:Yeah.

00:26:19Marc:So I'm getting a little more confidence with that.

00:26:21Marc:Yeah.

00:26:22Marc:Yeah.

00:26:22Marc:But I would never think about touring or you're doing it very earnestly.

00:26:27Marc:It's a hard shift to make for a funny guy.

00:26:30Guest:Yeah, it is.

00:26:31Guest:It's an embarrassing.

00:26:33Guest:Has it been embarrassing?

00:26:33Guest:Well, sometimes it is, but I've been doing it for a while and I don't know.

00:26:39Guest:I like writing music.

00:26:41Guest:How do you do it?

00:26:42Guest:I sit at the piano or the stand at the guitar.

00:26:48Guest:And you just do melodies?

00:26:50Guest:I do it all.

00:26:51Guest:I don't know.

00:26:52Guest:Sometimes it'll start with a lyric or a word or a phrase or a subject matter.

00:26:57Guest:Yeah.

00:26:58Guest:And then bang it out.

00:27:00Guest:I think I'm pretty good at that part of it.

00:27:02Guest:Yeah.

00:27:05Marc:Was it hard to be earnest?

00:27:06Marc:Yeah.

00:27:06Marc:About songs?

00:27:07Marc:Like get up there and be like Tim Heidecker and like here's a great song I wrote?

00:27:12Guest:Yeah, a little bit.

00:27:13Guest:I think it started because I have...

00:27:16Guest:You know, I got married and have a kid.

00:27:21Guest:I have two kids now.

00:27:22Guest:And I think I got to an age that I felt like I could talk about stuff that isn't ironic.

00:27:28Guest:Yeah.

00:27:29Guest:To see how that goes.

00:27:31Marc:You are a bonafide member of the snark generation.

00:27:37Marc:I know.

00:27:38Guest:I know.

00:27:39Marc:Yeah.

00:27:39Guest:But we've talked about this.

00:27:41Guest:I think it's interesting to see what you are outside of that, right?

00:27:45Guest:Outside of all of it.

00:27:46Marc:Yeah.

00:27:46Marc:That's why I've got the Krishnamurti book on my porch.

00:27:48Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:50Guest:I'm trying to – Yeah.

00:27:51Guest:And still be like – I think there's – I can be funny in my music and I am funny in – But not novelty music.

00:27:57Guest:But not novelty.

00:27:57Guest:Right.

00:27:58Guest:And not coming from a place of a character.

00:28:00Guest:Right.

00:28:00Guest:Which is a different thing.

00:28:01Guest:Yeah.

00:28:02Guest:But, I mean, Randy has done it.

00:28:04Yeah.

00:28:04Guest:Randy Newman, of course.

00:28:07Guest:He's a one-namer, right?

00:28:08Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:28:08Marc:I'll do it.

00:28:09Marc:We're pointing to cover his.

00:28:12Guest:Guilty, right?

00:28:12Guest:Yeah.

00:28:14Guest:Yeah, I just love it.

00:28:16Guest:I love music.

00:28:16Guest:And I found this, like you were talking about having a band.

00:28:19Guest:I have a band that I just get along with so good.

00:28:24Guest:How often do you rehearse?

00:28:25Guest:Well, they're so good.

00:28:27Marc:You just get together the day before a gig.

00:28:30Marc:Yeah, see, I can't do that because I want to learn how to play in a real way with other people.

00:28:34Marc:Right.

00:28:34Marc:And learn how to kind of be in...

00:28:36Marc:You know, time with everything, you know, because, like, I tend to choke both as a guitar player and as a singer a bit.

00:28:43Marc:And then, like, I don't know if I'm really.

00:28:45Guest:I think the thing that I hear you.

00:28:47Guest:I think the thing that changed for me was we did the tour.

00:28:50Guest:Yeah, right.

00:28:50Guest:And the tour has now locked it in that.

00:28:54Guest:The dynamics of that and the muscle memory of playing to the point where, yeah, you could turn it off and on.

00:29:02Guest:How many dates did you do?

00:29:03Guest:Well, we did like 30 dates the first summer.

00:29:07Guest:Yeah.

00:29:07Guest:And then 30 dates the second summer.

00:29:10Guest:Yeah.

00:29:11Guest:And I did it with my stand-up character, you know.

00:29:14Guest:Yeah.

00:29:14Guest:I did the first half of the show as my leather jacket guy.

00:29:18Guest:That guy.

00:29:19Guest:Making fun of all these stand-up comedians out there.

00:29:21Marc:Yeah, I do that.

00:29:22Marc:Not you, but other people.

00:29:23Guest:Seems like I do that for real now.

00:29:26Guest:Yeah.

00:29:26Guest:And then the second half of the show is the band.

00:29:28Guest:Yeah.

00:29:29Guest:People liked it?

00:29:30Guest:Yes, I think so.

00:29:32Guest:I think they did.

00:29:35Guest:But certain people don't.

00:29:36Guest:And certain people don't think that's not what they want from me.

00:29:40Guest:Yeah.

00:29:41Guest:How do you deal with that?

00:29:42Guest:You know, you want everything.

00:29:44Guest:Yeah.

00:29:45Guest:This is all of me.

00:29:46Marc:This is still me.

00:29:47Guest:Are you interviewing me?

00:29:48Guest:Do you feel like you're talking to yourself?

00:29:51Guest:Is that what you're saying?

00:29:52Marc:Well, no, because...

00:29:53Marc:I understand that framing, but I had to understand that framing when I started doing a podcast.

00:29:58Marc:I had to reassert myself.

00:30:00Marc:I do comedy.

00:30:01Marc:I'm a comedian.

00:30:03Marc:But the podcast enabled me to speak in a way freely that wasn't hinged to funny necessarily, so that was freeing.

00:30:09Marc:And I don't – like the way I do the music is I'll do a show where we'll play a couple songs.

00:30:15Marc:I'll bring a comic on, do a couple more songs, bring a comic on, do a couple more, and then I'll do a set and close out.

00:30:21Marc:So we're doing seven songs, covers, with the comedy performances in between.

00:30:26Marc:Yes.

00:30:27Marc:So it's not –

00:30:29Marc:I still don't have confidence to say, like, you know, I'm just going to do a music show.

00:30:34Guest:Right.

00:30:35Guest:Well, I've worked out a place where I can be funny within the music set.

00:30:40Marc:Yeah.

00:30:40Guest:I can talk and do bits.

00:30:42Marc:And you do inter-song, in-between song banter?

00:30:44Marc:I do the best.

00:30:46Yeah.

00:30:48Guest:It doesn't get better than my inter-song banter.

00:30:50Guest:Yeah.

00:30:51Guest:I have a little piano set where I play some funnier songs.

00:30:54Guest:Yeah.

00:30:55Guest:And I have a couple of musical style routines, whatever.

00:31:00Marc:Yeah.

00:31:00Guest:I mean, it sounds so dumb to talk about it, Mark.

00:31:03Marc:No, I'm curious.

00:31:03Guest:Because I use words like routines.

00:31:05Guest:Yeah.

00:31:06Guest:Bits.

00:31:06Guest:But bits.

00:31:07Guest:Yeah.

00:31:07Guest:Little sketch, little skits.

00:31:09Guest:Yeah.

00:31:10Guest:And every time we do it, we feel great leaving the stage.

00:31:15Guest:We get, you know, we have fun.

00:31:17Guest:I do these, I've seen these songs of mine that are all about drinking piss.

00:31:21Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:31:22Guest:This thing, this record called.

00:31:23Marc:Well, that's a relatable thing.

00:31:24Marc:Yeah.

00:31:24Marc:I mean, nowadays, right?

00:31:26Guest:Yeah.

00:31:27Guest:It's supposed to be good for you or something.

00:31:28Guest:It's a whole album about it?

00:31:30Guest:Yeah.

00:31:31Guest:You'd love it because it's done in the style of, like, you know, Lynyrd Skynyrd or something.

00:31:36Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:31:37Guest:And it's very well done, I have to say.

00:31:39Guest:Like, the music is very purely done very well.

00:31:43Guest:I'm going to do an ACDC song.

00:31:44Guest:Of course I am.

00:31:46Guest:Now, you can get up there and you can do the vocals?

00:31:49Yeah.

00:31:49Guest:Yeah, but I do them like me.

00:31:51Guest:Speaking of ACDC, Greg Turkington, who's, you know, now my most prolific collaborator these days because I've just done so much of On Cinema with him, also known as Neil Hamburger, does an ACDC thing when he sings, when he does karaoke.

00:32:08Guest:That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

00:32:10Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:32:11Guest:Because he gets real close to the mic and he sings like Brian Johnson, but very quietly.

00:32:16Guest:Yeah!

00:32:16Guest:I think that's how they do it.

00:32:22Marc:Even Bon Scott, they're not belting it.

00:32:25Marc:You got to get up in here.

00:32:27Marc:And it's easier to do it when you start.

00:32:30Marc:Like Chris Cornell, that mic was cranked because he was singing.

00:32:35Marc:so softly.

00:32:36Marc:Right.

00:32:36Marc:And you feel like he's belting it.

00:32:38Marc:That's the key.

00:32:39Marc:Yeah.

00:32:39Marc:How do you feel about your voice, generally?

00:32:42Marc:I'm self-conscious about it.

00:32:43Marc:Yeah, me too.

00:32:44Marc:Yeah.

00:32:44Marc:The vulnerability of singing and playing, it's fucking overwhelming.

00:32:47Marc:Yeah.

00:32:48Marc:And I did a Taylor Swift cover the other night.

00:32:50Marc:I saw.

00:32:50Marc:I saw that.

00:32:51Marc:It was great.

00:32:51Marc:The special was great, by the way.

00:32:52Marc:Oh, thank you very much.

00:32:54Marc:Well, yeah, but that was funny because we did that.

00:32:56Marc:We didn't time it out right.

00:32:57Marc:We did the Taylor Swift cover at Largo.

00:32:59Marc:And now you've got the engagement.

00:33:01Marc:I know.

00:33:01Marc:I was kind of excited about it.

00:33:04Guest:You know, John C. Reilly, Fred Armisen, and I did a show a few years ago called Moonbase 8, and our guest star in the first episode was Travis Kelsey.

00:33:14Guest:Yeah.

00:33:15Guest:Before he was a household name.

00:33:16Marc:I just saw the news this morning.

00:33:17Marc:I was surprised.

00:33:18Marc:I was like, oh, that's good.

00:33:20Marc:They seem good together.

00:33:21Marc:Yeah.

00:33:21Marc:That's a nice— The country needs it.

00:33:23Marc:We're healing.

00:33:23Marc:Yeah.

00:33:24Marc:Yeah.

00:33:24Marc:But after I did the Taylor Swift song, then I had to do my comedy set.

00:33:27Marc:It made me cry.

00:33:28Marc:Yeah.

00:33:29Marc:And then I'm like, all right.

00:33:31Marc:But I made the transition.

00:33:32Marc:You know why?

00:33:32Marc:Because I'm a pro.

00:33:33Marc:You're a master.

00:33:34Marc:I'm a fucking pro.

00:33:34Marc:You're one of the masters.

00:33:35Marc:I just locked into the bits and fucking did it.

00:33:39Guest:I would love to... I think if I... I did cry once on stage during the music.

00:33:43Marc:It's so vulnerable to me.

00:33:44Marc:Yeah.

00:33:45Marc:Yeah, I just feel like... And I think that...

00:33:49Marc:I think that doing the music and sort of moving through that fear, it's going to help my stand-up in a way.

00:33:55Marc:Because I'm just tired of the patter.

00:33:57Marc:I'm tired of, like, I wrote my notebook.

00:33:59Marc:I just wrote, limit swagger.

00:34:02Marc:In your stand-up.

00:34:03Guest:Just in general.

00:34:04Guest:In general, yeah.

00:34:05Guest:You know?

00:34:06Guest:Yeah.

00:34:07Guest:There is something about, like...

00:34:10Guest:I'm so clear about why I'm doing it for myself, but I don't know how close I am to understanding if I'm doing it for the right reasons for my audience.

00:34:22Guest:Yeah.

00:34:23Marc:That's the trick.

00:34:25Marc:Yeah, but how much of that lives in our head anyways?

00:34:27Marc:And in the comments, I don't know.

00:34:31Marc:I'd worry about that too.

00:34:33Marc:Like, oh, let's indulge Mark with his little music dream.

00:34:36Marc:And certainly growing up, seeing comics that do music, I'm like, oh, fuck.

00:34:41Marc:What's he doing?

00:34:42Marc:It didn't go well for Kennison.

00:34:45Marc:Right.

00:34:45Marc:He was pretty serious about it.

00:34:47Marc:Any comic that has music seriously.

00:34:48Marc:I know.

00:34:49Marc:It's very hard to watch, to frame it correctly.

00:34:52Marc:Yeah.

00:34:53Marc:Even if they're amazing.

00:34:54Marc:Right.

00:34:54Guest:You know?

00:34:55Guest:Yeah.

00:34:57Guest:And it's a shame because I think we all come from, like, growing up wanting to just do stuff.

00:35:02Guest:Yeah.

00:35:02Guest:And not thinking about the genre and how it's going to be classified at blockbuster video or whatever.

00:35:07Marc:I guess, but like when Eddie Murphy did My Girl Wants to Party all the time.

00:35:10Guest:Oh, terrible.

00:35:11Marc:I think.

00:35:13Marc:Yeah.

00:35:13Marc:I'll agree with that.

00:35:14Marc:Yeah.

00:35:15Marc:But it all comes down to

00:35:18Marc:If you're not doing it to sell records and you're doing it earnestly to express yourself, then it's legit.

00:35:26Guest:I think that's where I'm coming from.

00:35:28Guest:I have things I want to say that don't belong in my comedy.

00:35:31Marc:Yeah, I haven't figured out how to write a song yet.

00:35:34Marc:I think I've probably written some, but I have to find them.

00:35:37Marc:Does that make sense?

00:35:38Guest:Yeah.

00:35:38Guest:I mean, either John Lennon says, like, keep it short and make it rhyme.

00:35:44Guest:Did he?

00:35:44Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:35:45Marc:But he also has all those chords.

00:35:46Marc:You have the Beatles chords.

00:35:48Marc:Yeah, I don't.

00:35:49Marc:I'm still strictly a one, four, five.

00:35:51Marc:No, those are good, too.

00:35:52Marc:With an occasional.

00:35:53Marc:Those are the catchy ones.

00:35:54Marc:With an occasional two.

00:35:56Marc:Two minor.

00:35:57Marc:Yeah, two minor.

00:35:57Marc:Right, exactly.

00:35:58Marc:To make it pop.

00:35:59Marc:Yeah.

00:36:00Marc:Yeah.

00:36:00Marc:Just to refresh the ear.

00:36:02Marc:You weren't all the Beatles chords?

00:36:03Yeah.

00:36:03Guest:I don't know.

00:36:04Guest:No, I'm also a one, four, five, two guy.

00:36:09Guest:Six.

00:36:09Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:36:10Marc:There's six in there.

00:36:11Marc:What the fuck?

00:36:12Marc:Why not?

00:36:13Marc:So you made a record about P though?

00:36:16Guest:Yes, that's the Yellow River Boys.

00:36:18Guest:And that goes back 10 years.

00:36:20Guest:But, you know, if you don't want the heavy stuff.

00:36:23Marc:All right, so now switching gears.

00:36:27Marc:Listen to me acting like a real interviewer.

00:36:30Marc:The film podcast, what do you do on there?

00:36:32Guest:The film podcast is Greg Turkington and I, and it is a 10-year-long soap opera.

00:36:41Guest:The patina or the sort of stage in which we perform on is this movie review show.

00:36:49Guest:But it's really a psychodrama.

00:36:51Guest:About you two?

00:36:52Guest:About our two characters.

00:36:53Guest:Okay.

00:36:54Guest:Mark, it's the greatest thing ever.

00:36:56Guest:Okay.

00:36:56Guest:I mean, I'm not kidding you.

00:36:58Guest:Based on, like, Siskel and Ebert or something?

00:37:00Guest:Well, that's the format that we play in.

00:37:03Guest:Yeah.

00:37:03Guest:But it is these two lunatics.

00:37:06Guest:Right.

00:37:06Guest:They hate each other.

00:37:07Guest:Yeah.

00:37:08Guest:And they're miserable and they're failures.

00:37:10Guest:Yeah.

00:37:11Guest:Yeah.

00:37:11Guest:That's what's going on.

00:37:13Guest:That's the subtext of the show.

00:37:15Guest:And you do that over at the house?

00:37:16Guest:No, we do.

00:37:18Guest:Go down to Tom's place?

00:37:20Guest:We go to a studio.

00:37:23Guest:Over at Forever Dog?

00:37:25Guest:Well, no.

00:37:25Guest:No, this is a TV show.

00:37:28Guest:It's a production.

00:37:30Guest:It's a Loba.

00:37:32Guest:It's on television?

00:37:33Guest:It's on our own network, the Hi Network.

00:37:36Guest:Yeah.

00:37:36Guest:Which people pay for.

00:37:37Guest:Yeah.

00:37:37Guest:And supports.

00:37:38Guest:How many shows you got on there?

00:37:40Guest:We have 200 episodes or so of- Of that.

00:37:43Guest:Of 15 seasons.

00:37:45Guest:Of that.

00:37:46Guest:We have- What's some other shows on there?

00:37:47Guest:High Network.

00:37:48Marc:That's it.

00:37:49Guest:Oh, that's it?

00:37:49Guest:H-E-I.

00:37:50Guest:Well, that's it.

00:37:51Guest:I mean, that's-

00:37:52Guest:You're not producing other shows?

00:37:54Guest:No.

00:37:55Guest:You're not a, what do you call it?

00:37:58Guest:An empresario?

00:37:59Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:00Marc:Empresario.

00:38:01Marc:Mogul.

00:38:01Marc:Entrepreneur.

00:38:02Marc:Mogul.

00:38:02Guest:We'd like to.

00:38:03Guest:I mean, the show's been running for a long time.

00:38:05Guest:How's the following?

00:38:08Guest:It's brilliant.

00:38:09Guest:It's, you know, we have...

00:38:13Guest:15,000 or 20,000 people that subscribe to it that pay to watch the show which funds the season and we do an Oscar special every year we made a movie called Mr. America that was in the movie theaters you know it's a cult thing but I swear Mark if you got into it

00:38:32Guest:I'll check it out.

00:38:33Guest:You would love it.

00:38:34Guest:I'll check it out.

00:38:35Guest:Because it goes to the darkest places of our— How much does it cost to— I'll get you a—give me a break.

00:38:41Guest:I'll get you in.

00:38:42Guest:I'll get you in the back door.

00:38:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:44Marc:I can just jump onto high TV.

00:38:45Marc:Performers don't pay for things.

00:38:47Marc:It's wild, though, because you, out of all the people, really, that I talk to, the things that you've done have always been a cult audience.

00:38:57Yeah.

00:38:57Marc:Sure.

00:38:59Marc:Yeah.

00:38:59Marc:In terms of like, but, you know, Tim and Eric had a huge impact on a lot of people, a lot of creative people.

00:39:06Marc:It created a tone that I was pretty fascinated with.

00:39:09Marc:You know, I think that without you, there's, you know, Eric Andre might not know what he's doing.

00:39:13Marc:Uh-huh.

00:39:14Yeah.

00:39:15Marc:without you and Tom Green.

00:39:17Marc:Yeah.

00:39:17Marc:But the cult thing... Jackass.

00:39:21Marc:Yeah, Jackass?

00:39:22Marc:No, I'm saying... Oh, Jackass.

00:39:24Marc:Oh, sure, Jackass.

00:39:25Marc:Yeah, sure, yeah.

00:39:26Marc:Boy, that first Jackass movie.

00:39:28Marc:Holy fuck.

00:39:28Marc:Terrific, yeah.

00:39:30Marc:I've got to watch it every few years.

00:39:31Marc:You can't watch it more than that or it's not going to be funny.

00:39:33Marc:Right.

00:39:33Marc:You've got to savor it.

00:39:35Marc:But what are you saying?

00:39:36Marc:Well, I'm saying that when there's this other idea that's happened

00:39:41Marc:and I think this will get us into, you know, some of the other stuff I want to talk about was that this idea that your success is hinged on likes and, and your relevance.

00:39:54Marc:Yeah.

00:39:54Marc:You're following, uh, you know, that it's all about, you know, the, the clicks and the, and the Benjamins.

00:40:01Marc:Yeah.

00:40:01Marc:And, you know, I, I've never been a greedy fuck or, or, or, you know, gunning for the money.

00:40:07Marc:Right.

00:40:07Marc:Maybe would have done it differently, but I think at some point I realized, uh,

00:40:10Marc:there's no other way i can do it yeah so for me to you know assess that as being the way show business works even on the level of independent show business that it really becomes like how many followers like how many people are subscribed all this other shit that you know quality or in in integrity of the thing or even creativity is you know second or third or fourth in the concern yeah um

00:40:36Marc:But I guess where I was going at the beginning of this is that when you're always sort of – you have to realize, like, you know, I have this audience.

00:40:44Marc:You know, they're my audience.

00:40:45Marc:You know, I don't want to push them away most days.

00:40:50Marc:Yeah.

00:40:50Marc:But I do push the limit.

00:40:52Marc:But, you know, why can't – you know, I'd be happy with that.

00:40:54Marc:And I think some part of the answer, given that what you and I do sometimes, is that it feels insulated.

00:41:02Marc:Yeah.

00:41:02Marc:If you want to do work that has a politically satirical target and intention, if it's just to make your audience laugh, who gives a shit?

00:41:15Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:16Marc:And I find that frustrating sometimes.

00:41:18Guest:Well, yeah, I... In the case of on cinema, I think it is... It's a very specific kind of dry comedy that takes quite a bit of maybe investment to... But I say that and I sound like... It sounds like bullshit because everything requires a bit of investment.

00:41:36Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:41:36Guest:If you're going to start watching Mad Men... Yeah.

00:41:38Guest:You're going to not maybe... You're going to, you know, try to not understand... You don't know who everything is, what everything is about.

00:41:44Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:41:47Guest:So...

00:41:47Guest:For whatever reason, our stuff appeals to not as many people.

00:41:52Guest:But they stay with us for years.

00:41:55Guest:But I'm not trying to alienate anybody.

00:41:59Marc:We're just making our things.

00:42:00Marc:Right.

00:42:00Marc:But I'm talking about political stuff.

00:42:02Guest:Yes.

00:42:03Guest:Well, I mean, I certainly am political.

00:42:06Guest:Yeah.

00:42:07Guest:But not on cinema.

00:42:08Guest:So if you're talking outside of on cinema.

00:42:09Marc:I'm just talking in the general sense.

00:42:11Marc:In general sense.

00:42:11Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:12Marc:That you're still playing to an audience.

00:42:14Marc:Right.

00:42:14Marc:And like, because I've just had this experience over the last few weeks.

00:42:16Marc:Yeah.

00:42:17Marc:Of, you know, shooting my mouth off in a format that.

00:42:20Marc:Yes.

00:42:20Marc:And I mean, we're all loving it.

00:42:23Marc:Oh, good.

00:42:24Marc:But like, because we don't do video and that's very intentional.

00:42:27Marc:Right.

00:42:28Marc:You know, because we do a certain thing and it was a decision.

00:42:30Marc:It wasn't like, you know, why don't you make the jump?

00:42:32Marc:It was not what we do.

00:42:33Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:33Marc:to create the intimacy we want to create and to create the experience we want to have and what I want to have with who I'm talking to.

00:42:40Marc:But all of a sudden I go out and, you know, Brendan's not editing me, you know, and I'm just kind of going off.

00:42:47Marc:You're annoyed from you sitting down already.

00:42:50Marc:Well, there's that, but there's also like all the stuff I'm talking about, you know, I've talked about before.

00:42:56Marc:Sure.

00:42:57Marc:But because it's on video and because it's shareable.

00:43:00Marc:Right.

00:43:01Marc:And because there were moments where, you know, I took people on –

00:43:06Marc:All of a sudden it's got all this fucking traction and I'm all of a sudden in this conversation or a one-sided conversation with people who hate what I say or people who like what I say that you start to realize that

00:43:22Marc:Okay, well, that's all well and good.

00:43:24Marc:And I feel like, like you said, I think it makes a difference.

00:43:27Marc:I mean, I'm primarily speaking for our community.

00:43:30Marc:Absolutely.

00:43:31Marc:You know, comics and creatives who are in the face of authoritarianism and the sort of momentum of that to make ourselves scared to talk or to feel like what we're doing is being pushed aside.

00:43:46Marc:Yeah.

00:43:47Marc:You know, and then that for me, you know.

00:43:49Guest:Well, I'm also when you say community forget.

00:43:51Guest:I mean, yes, absolutely.

00:43:53Guest:Some comedians and artists and creatives and people that we work with.

00:43:58Guest:Yeah.

00:43:58Guest:And people that are in my family and people that are friends of mine.

00:44:01Guest:Right.

00:44:02Guest:I feel an obligation to speak on their behalf.

00:44:04Guest:Right.

00:44:05Guest:If people are going to ask me about things or if I'm going to do my office hours podcast, which is a live call-in show that I generally talk about what's going on with me.

00:44:14Guest:And so I heard today, like, you know this fucking guy, Patrick Bette David?

00:44:20Guest:Do you know these guys?

00:44:21Guest:Oh, they're like...

00:44:23Guest:They're in the rogue sphere, but they're not comedians.

00:44:25Guest:They're just these biz bros, you know, real estate fuckers.

00:44:29Guest:Bad guys.

00:44:30Guest:Yeah.

00:44:31Guest:100%.

00:44:32Guest:And they were playing this clip of, you see this clip of Snoop Dogg going to the movie theater.

00:44:37Guest:The problem that he did not explain it to his grandkids or something.

00:44:40Guest:Yeah.

00:44:41Guest:And they go on about it for 10 minutes.

00:44:42Guest:Well, this is what's wrong with Disney.

00:44:45Guest:And finally people are waking up.

00:44:47Guest:And if it's so woke for Snoop Dogg.

00:44:50Guest:Then maybe people... I'm like, what the fuck are you guys talking about?

00:44:54Guest:Yeah.

00:44:54Guest:A cartoon with two moms that have an adopted kid?

00:44:58Guest:Yeah.

00:44:58Guest:That should be the... And they're talking about grooming.

00:45:01Guest:Yeah.

00:45:01Guest:And how this is a disgrace.

00:45:04Guest:All the talking point.

00:45:04Guest:Fuck you.

00:45:05Guest:And I get so mad about it.

00:45:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:07Guest:Because...

00:45:07Guest:Fuck you if you don't have a friend or a cousin or a family member, somebody who's, is like done a very, in my opinion, normal thing.

00:45:17Guest:Yeah.

00:45:17Guest:Of falling in love with somebody and adopting a kid.

00:45:21Guest:Yeah.

00:45:21Guest:Like that should be the most fucking white bread.

00:45:24Guest:Yeah.

00:45:24Guest:Wonder bread bullshit.

00:45:25Guest:Yeah.

00:45:26Guest:Well, they, well, then it's like, but they're treating it like it's the, you know, guys fucking each other in the middle of a Pixar movie.

00:45:34Marc:Yeah.

00:45:34Marc:Well, they're, they, they're, they don't come from love.

00:45:37Marc:The idea of love being enough between two people doesn't factor into their judgment.

00:45:45Guest:But I'm glad you're talking, and I feel like I need to talk because those guys are sucking up so much of the oxygen.

00:45:50Marc:That's what I mean, yeah.

00:45:51Guest:It's the same audience that is watching Rogan, and everyone's getting validated by this cretinous, backwards, 20th century thinking about the world we're living in.

00:46:03Marc:Yeah, and we're one of the last countries.

00:46:07Marc:Yeah.

00:46:08Marc:To sort of just be okay with this shit.

00:46:10Marc:Yeah.

00:46:10Marc:You know, but I've said it before that once, you know, tolerance is removed from the equation, you know, democracy becomes nearly impossible.

00:46:18Marc:Yeah.

00:46:20Guest:You know, there was this thing, I think John sent it to me about this thing about the stepbrothers.

00:46:25Guest:Yeah.

00:46:27Guest:Great fucking funny movie.

00:46:30Guest:And there's this sort of...

00:46:33Guest:quality to it that feels like you can be a little you can play with race jokes you can play with certain kind of jokes because at the time everyone felt like this has all been settled science you know what I mean like we are not we don't have we can play we can play now because we've figured it out and it feels like it's not the case right now it's all coming back yeah and these ideas of you know white supremacy of homophobia right

00:46:59Guest:This trans scare.

00:47:01Guest:It's like it's all coming back and we have to just be loud about it.

00:47:06Marc:Well, yeah, because as real world consequences, because, you know, the authoritarian administration and the fascist cultural apparatus through the Christians is, you know, they're they're making policy built on the back of of this anti woke thing.

00:47:22Marc:And that was, you know, all these comics who were like, you know, it was really about language and their own victimization that they saw.

00:47:31Marc:Yeah.

00:47:32Marc:Which wasn't real.

00:47:33Marc:Wasn't real.

00:47:33Marc:And now, like, you know, they are tethered to political policies that are really killing people and damaging lives and infringing on the freedom of people and their rights.

00:47:45Marc:Yeah.

00:47:45Marc:And none of it was ever funny.

00:47:47Guest:Oh, my God, dude.

00:47:48Guest:Like these podcasts that these guys sit around and talk about the old days at the store.

00:47:54Marc:There's a way to talk about it that's funny.

00:47:55Marc:Sure.

00:47:56Marc:But, you know, to see Rogan get teared up about it, it's sort of...

00:48:01Marc:It's a little rough.

00:48:03Marc:But also the fact that they've elevated to this level of influencer where people are going to them for this information.

00:48:11Marc:And arguably, some of them were never funny.

00:48:15Marc:I don't even like mentioning names because I won't give them any juice.

00:48:20Marc:But it's like the job of comedian, it's a broad spectrum.

00:48:24Marc:It's weird about limiting swagger because your character that you do is...

00:48:28Marc:Mr. Swagger.

00:48:30Marc:It's the definition of empty swag.

00:48:31Marc:Right.

00:48:32Marc:Yeah.

00:48:32Marc:Right.

00:48:32Marc:Yeah.

00:48:33Guest:Yeah.

00:48:33Guest:And I don't know where I saw that.

00:48:34Guest:I don't know what I picked up on to that where I just like, oh, that's what those guys do.

00:48:39Marc:Yeah.

00:48:39Guest:Don't have the material.

00:48:41Marc:It's all just attitude.

00:48:42Guest:Yeah.

00:48:43Guest:But yeah, I mean, that's what I was making fun of.

00:48:45Marc:Right.

00:48:46Marc:But but I don't like because I thought that thing you did.

00:48:49Marc:That you didn't do as Rogan, you know, you did with those other two guys.

00:48:53Marc:Yeah, Jeremy and Roger.

00:48:54Marc:How the fuck did you construct that?

00:48:56Marc:Did you write it?

00:48:58Marc:Or was there an intention?

00:49:00Marc:Did you say to these guys, like, never commit to anything that might be against what I'm saying and never say anything?

00:49:06Guest:Well, the story, yeah, sort of.

00:49:09Guest:Yeah, we had a Google Doc, which had, like, some names and books, like, fake book names and subjects.

00:49:15Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:17Guest:Those guys are such really funny and they knew the world.

00:49:21Guest:Who are those guys?

00:49:22Guest:Rajat Suresh is one of the guys and Jeremy Levick is the other.

00:49:27Guest:And they do their own stuff.

00:49:30Guest:Yeah.

00:49:30Guest:They were on Mulaney's show this year as writers and stuff.

00:49:33Guest:They're very talented.

00:49:35Guest:Yeah.

00:49:35Guest:We knew the world well enough that we could improvise around certain ideas and names.

00:49:41Guest:But the best thing that happened to us, because they're in New York and we shot it, we did it remotely.

00:49:46Guest:So I shot my side in our studio and we had a little crew set up in New York and we just did it kind of over Zoom but filmed it, you know.

00:49:54Guest:And we got the footage back and their audio was terrible.

00:49:59Marc:Yeah.

00:49:59Guest:It was like unusable.

00:50:00Guest:Right.

00:50:01Guest:And they tried to fix it and everything.

00:50:03Guest:And I thought it was so great.

00:50:05Guest:I said, we just have to redo this.

00:50:07Guest:Yeah.

00:50:08Guest:And it was a rare thing.

00:50:10Guest:I've never really never had to do that before.

00:50:12Guest:We have just completely reshoot something.

00:50:14Guest:But it was good because we had this rehearsal day.

00:50:17Guest:Yeah.

00:50:17Guest:Where we just figured out I was able to like say that was really funny.

00:50:20Guest:Let's try to do that again.

00:50:21Guest:Yeah.

00:50:22Guest:Maybe we don't need to go down that.

00:50:23Guest:It makes it probably better.

00:50:24Guest:Yeah.

00:50:25Guest:It was a great, happy accident.

00:50:27Guest:But, you know, it was something where we shot for two hours and got an hour out of it.

00:50:31Guest:Yeah.

00:50:31Guest:So it was a lot of laughing.

00:50:34Guest:Yeah.

00:50:34Guest:As a good sign.

00:50:35Marc:Did you post that as part of office hours?

00:50:37Guest:It was just on office hours, yeah.

00:50:38Guest:Yeah.

00:50:39Guest:So I don't know how you find it anymore.

00:50:40Guest:But didn't it go viral a bit?

00:50:42Guest:Yeah.

00:50:42Guest:People got it right away.

00:50:43Guest:Yeah.

00:50:43Guest:And it would hit at the right time where people were – I like to think that –

00:50:48Guest:There's something annoying about his show that you can't put your finger on.

00:50:52Guest:Yeah.

00:50:53Guest:And we put our finger on it, you know, and said, this is what's annoying about it.

00:50:57Guest:And it wasn't even political.

00:50:59Guest:It was just, like, how boring it is and how, you know, going in circles you end up going.

00:51:05Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:06Guest:It's just a bunch of guys.

00:51:07Guest:It has this tone of, like, what I remember from, like, the college rec center, you know, at 3 in the morning.

00:51:14Guest:Yeah.

00:51:15Guest:Which I don't want to go back and have those conversations again.

00:51:18Marc:You're skirting around an issue that you don't understand with information that you don't understand either.

00:51:24Marc:Yes.

00:51:24Guest:Yeah.

00:51:25Guest:Yeah.

00:51:27Guest:So, yeah.

00:51:28Guest:It always bothered me.

00:51:29Guest:I always think the premise of that joke was that these guys talk in loops and don't really get to anywhere.

00:51:35Guest:You never walk away getting any answers.

00:51:38Guest:Yeah.

00:51:39Guest:And you just get more confused.

00:51:41Guest:And I've never made it to the end of one of those shows.

00:51:44Guest:I've never watched one.

00:51:45Marc:Yeah.

00:51:45Marc:You see clips.

00:51:47Marc:Yeah, I see clips occasionally.

00:51:49Marc:Right.

00:51:49Marc:But I find that I'm really out of the loop because after whatever happened the other day on Pod Save America, that sort of landed.

00:51:57Marc:And I got to ask my producer.

00:51:58Marc:I'm like, are you seeing it out there?

00:52:00Marc:Because I guess I'm out of the loop.

00:52:02Marc:And it's everywhere in those fucking worlds.

00:52:05Marc:And I don't go to.

00:52:06Guest:Tony Hinchcliffe, I saw him talking about you.

00:52:09Guest:That's terrific.

00:52:09Guest:It's all good for you, Mark.

00:52:11Guest:I hope you understand.

00:52:11Marc:Well, I'm trying to understand because there's still part of me.

00:52:15Marc:And it's a real part of me that believes on some level we're all comics.

00:52:20Marc:But, you know, but I know that that doesn't matter anymore.

00:52:23Marc:Right.

00:52:24Marc:And, you know, what Tony was saying outside of, you know, with me and you, he was just hanging himself.

00:52:30Marc:Like, you know, like these guys, they show up every couple of years.

00:52:33Marc:Right.

00:52:33Marc:Yeah.

00:52:33Marc:Because we're building an act.

00:52:35Marc:Yeah.

00:52:36We're building an act.

00:52:36Marc:We're doing the work.

00:52:38Marc:And he's like, I'm out there every day delivering comedy.

00:52:41Marc:And the whole premise, whether, you know, he's making model T's.

00:52:45Marc:Well, but it's like he's couching in this idea of wrestling where, you know, the essence of the show is like a guy who's not a good comic, you know, has, you know, hungry amateur comics out there to shit on him.

00:52:59Guest:Yeah, it's very cruel.

00:53:01Guest:That's the show.

00:53:02Guest:Yeah, it's very hard to watch.

00:53:05Guest:We did a parody of that too, but it was almost not... It's too gross to even make fun of.

00:53:12Marc:Well, he plays it like he's the heel, you know, in that there is a spectacle element of it.

00:53:18Marc:But for me, it's like...

00:53:19Marc:Stand up, you know, there is a craft to it and it is comedy is a place where you can, you know, challenge things.

00:53:29Marc:Right.

00:53:30Marc:As opposed to just create garbage.

00:53:33Marc:Right.

00:53:34Marc:To titillate fucking, you know, fury.

00:53:37Marc:Yeah.

00:53:38Marc:And intolerance.

00:53:40Marc:So there's a counter to it.

00:53:42Guest:Yeah.

00:53:43Guest:I don't relate to any of it because I'm not a standup and I don't, I mean, I do it, but like the world I come from is not competitive in the way we work together.

00:53:55Guest:It is collaborative and is joyful and silly for the most part.

00:54:01Guest:And the bro-y locker room vibe isn't there.

00:54:05Marc:Right.

00:54:05Marc:Well, that's also, like, for me, I've never been able to lock in with that.

00:54:09Marc:I don't lock in with that many people, really.

00:54:11Marc:Like, if I think of myself in high school, I knew those guys.

00:54:15Marc:But I'd kind of, you know, subvert, you know, insults.

00:54:18Marc:I would kind of move between groups.

00:54:21Marc:But I never, you know, I never sit there.

00:54:24Marc:I was never able to just kind of, like, you know, like, I'm going to go hang out with the dudes, you know.

00:54:29Marc:I mean, I do it with comics now.

00:54:31Marc:Yeah.

00:54:31Marc:But I was never that guy.

00:54:32Marc:I was always too uncomfortable.

00:54:34Marc:I don't know.

00:54:35Marc:I was never a nerd either.

00:54:36Marc:Sorry.

00:54:37Marc:I was just a guy.

00:54:37Marc:We just touched feet.

00:54:39Marc:I'm not freaked out about it.

00:54:42Marc:But I don't – so it's not really where I come from, but where I come from is just –

00:54:47Marc:As valid.

00:54:48Marc:I don't know, man.

00:54:50Guest:What are we going to do?

00:54:51Guest:I don't know because people think I'm obsessed with this world because I talk about it a lot or I talk about politics.

00:54:59Guest:I think from the beginning we've just been people, whether it was the Tim and Eric stuff or whatever I do, I'm just looking at –

00:55:06Guest:and it's filtering through and coming back out as what I think is funny or absurd.

00:55:11Marc:Yeah, that's right.

00:55:11Guest:And this seems to be the thing that's in the middle of the room right now.

00:55:14Guest:Yeah.

00:55:15Guest:You know, from our perspective.

00:55:16Marc:Sure.

00:55:16Guest:Maybe it's not for everybody else.

00:55:18Guest:Sure.

00:55:18Guest:But for me, it's fascinating.

00:55:20Guest:Watching this PBD show, I'll send you clips of these guys, and you'll just go, yeah, of course you're watching this every day.

00:55:25Guest:Yeah.

00:55:25Guest:Because it's fascinating that these people are sucking up oxygen and getting eyeballs.

00:55:32Guest:And breaking brains.

00:55:33Guest:And breaking brains.

00:55:34Guest:Yeah.

00:55:34Marc:And sort of reinforcing some, you know, fucked up shit.

00:55:39Guest:Yeah.

00:55:40Guest:And it often comes back out of me, regurgitates into something that is amusing to people or is funny or creatively satisfying to me.

00:55:48Guest:But it's hard to ignore the situation.

00:55:50Marc:But how do you like...

00:55:53Marc:You know, like, I talked to a guy last week, Peter Conheim, who was with Negative Land.

00:55:59Marc:Okay, yeah.

00:56:00Marc:And, you know, back in the day, there was this idea of culture jamming, you know, where you would put something into the machine that would kind of, like, you know, fuck it up.

00:56:09Marc:Right.

00:56:10Marc:You know, whether it be a satirical brand.

00:56:12Marc:I think, like...

00:56:13Marc:I think that probably one of the great culture jams was the Illuminati conspiracy was invented by a couple of hippies.

00:56:22Marc:Robert Anton Wilson?

00:56:23Marc:He was part of it and the other guy.

00:56:25Marc:But it was in reaction to the John Birch Society.

00:56:28Marc:Right.

00:56:30Marc:They were trying to figure out a way across all avenues of information at that time to put this in the world.

00:56:39Marc:You know, as a means to, you know, create this incredible prank.

00:56:43Marc:Right.

00:56:43Marc:That these forces were all part of it.

00:56:46Marc:Right.

00:56:46Marc:And now it's established as something that people believe in.

00:56:50Marc:Right, right.

00:56:51Marc:So I think it's an effective prank, but it kind of backfired on itself over time.

00:56:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:56:56Marc:But do you ever think about, like, as an intention...

00:57:01Marc:How do we or you start fucking with what you're saying, this sucking up air business?

00:57:10Marc:I mean, there's a lot of amateurs that do it, and they do their little reels, and they do their little sketches and stuff.

00:57:17Marc:But a real way to cause some shit, because I think there's a vulnerability to it all now.

00:57:21Guest:Yeah.

00:57:24Marc:The thing you're up against is that all the all these communities are so siloed and they don't engage with each other.

00:57:29Marc:No.

00:57:30Marc:So somehow you've got to create a self-detonating bomb.

00:57:33Marc:Yeah.

00:57:34Guest:I mean, I want to explore more like the numbers that these people.

00:57:39Guest:Yeah.

00:57:39Guest:It just feels wrong.

00:57:42Guest:You know, really, are they really tuning in for all this?

00:57:48Guest:Like 100 million people?

00:57:49Guest:Yeah.

00:57:50Guest:I mean, Hinchcliffe is doing Madison Square Garden.

00:57:53Guest:I guess people are going to that, you know?

00:57:54Guest:Sure.

00:57:55Marc:But so is Segura and Segura is like, you know, for whether you like him or not is a real comic.

00:58:00Marc:Right.

00:58:00Marc:But a lot of them lean pretty heavily into their audience because they can churn out hours all the time now because everybody's up to speed.

00:58:07Marc:Right.

00:58:07Marc:And you can just finish stories.

00:58:08Marc:Right.

00:58:09Marc:As your show.

00:58:10Marc:Right.

00:58:10Marc:Like, you guys remember when I did the—well, here's what happened.

00:58:13Guest:Inside joke.

00:58:13Guest:That's right.

00:58:14Marc:Back to the cult thing, but their numbers are bigger.

00:58:17Marc:Right.

00:58:17Marc:It's the inside joke thing, but, you know, it's their audience.

00:58:20Marc:I get it.

00:58:20Marc:Right.

00:58:20Marc:You know, people are up to speed.

00:58:22Marc:Right.

00:58:22Marc:But, like, there are guys in that world that I don't have any issue with.

00:58:26Marc:Right.

00:58:27Marc:You know, Segura, Bert.

00:58:28Marc:I don't—you know, it's fine.

00:58:29Marc:Right.

00:58:30Marc:They're doing the comedy.

00:58:31Marc:Right.

00:58:31Marc:But it's the ideologues and the people that have this position about what comedy should be that are frightening to me.

00:58:40Marc:But like, yeah, maybe the place to start is the numbers.

00:58:42Marc:But I just feel like there's got to be a way to somehow with some consistency create, you know, malignant cells of information.

00:58:52Right.

00:58:52Guest:Yeah, it feels like it's starting.

00:58:54Guest:I mean, that Elephant Graveyard video is so great.

00:58:56Guest:It's the best.

00:58:57Guest:The new one?

00:58:57Guest:Yeah, the new one.

00:58:58Guest:And that gets a lot of views, too.

00:59:01Guest:And you've got to think that there's people that are getting a little tired of the talk, the endless conversation that isn't going anywhere.

00:59:10Guest:You're not getting anything back from it.

00:59:12Marc:You would think.

00:59:12Marc:I mean, that's the bigger question.

00:59:14Marc:Is it getting exhausted?

00:59:17Yeah.

00:59:17Marc:Or is it still reinforcing everything?

00:59:20Marc:I mean, I know that Joe's kind of changing his tune now.

00:59:22Marc:Right, how convenient, you know?

00:59:24Marc:Yeah.

00:59:24Marc:Yeah, but the thing is, like, you know, he did what he did.

00:59:27Marc:Right.

00:59:27Guest:Oh, and so, yeah, there's no, like, you're an adult and there are consequences for getting that involved to the point where you had the guy on the show.

00:59:36Guest:And then supported him.

00:59:37Guest:And endorsed him explicitly to your audience, so.

00:59:39Marc:But I also think there's this framework where, and I think I talked about it on that Pod Save America, where it's like these people are fundamentally anti-democratic.

00:59:47Marc:So there's no two-party solution to people that shamelessly and forcefully believe that liberal democracy is bullshit.

00:59:59Marc:Right.

01:00:00Guest:And so what do you do up against that?

01:00:03Guest:Well, they might win as part of it.

01:00:07Guest:No, they are winning.

01:00:09Guest:very fundamental things could start going away.

01:00:14Guest:Well, that's happening.

01:00:15Guest:You're right.

01:00:16Marc:That's my argument with them.

01:00:18Marc:It's like, okay, you guys started this anti-woke shit, and everybody was upset about pronouns and not being able to say retard, but now they have policy built around this, and there's real-world consequences for everybody.

01:00:29Marc:Aside from just the smaller-world consequences, once you free those words, you're freeing kids to be disrespectful.

01:00:37Marc:Right.

01:00:37Marc:Because they think it's cool again or they think it's fun.

01:00:40Guest:Yeah.

01:00:41Guest:I mean, no, by the way, let me take back.

01:00:43Guest:It is happening.

01:00:44Guest:Fully happening.

01:00:47Guest:But, you know, the big things, well, again, you're right.

01:00:51Guest:I keep thinking about it because I'm like, well, no, that is actually happening.

01:00:53Guest:Yeah, right.

01:00:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:54Guest:The troops on the streets, you know, like how much clearer, I mean, again, these people are flip-flopping.

01:01:03Guest:We can call them flip-floppers now, finally, like Tim Dillon saying, this is all what Alex Jones was worried about happening.

01:01:11Guest:He said that the other day.

01:01:12Guest:Oh, did he?

01:01:13Guest:Yeah, but it's like you had J.D.

01:01:16Guest:Vance on your show.

01:01:17Guest:You did fundraisers for RFK Jr.

01:01:21Guest:Yeah, so how do you, yeah.

01:01:23Guest:But, I mean, I guess we should be glad that they're saying something.

01:01:26Marc:No, I guess so, because that's where you come back to.

01:01:29Marc:So you comics are landing back in it.

01:01:30Marc:Yeah.

01:01:31Marc:You got your little rise to power, but now you're on the hook.

01:01:34Guest:But the powers that be don't care because they got what they're in now.

01:01:39Marc:So I just want to figure out, like, I guess what I think is missing and what I think that, you know, I do in my own way with stand-up or with just, you know, blabbing is some sort of, you know, functional, impactful creative resistance.

01:02:00Right.

01:02:01Marc:Yeah.

01:02:02Marc:Not just like, you know, like, well, we're going to do this thing.

01:02:05Marc:It's an Eagle Rock fundraiser.

01:02:07Marc:Yeah.

01:02:07Marc:Fundraiser or like we're all doing a show, you know, it's two drag queens and this trans guy.

01:02:13Marc:Yeah.

01:02:14Marc:But they're all really funny.

01:02:15Marc:It's a dynasty and we're going to put all the proceeds to like, look, that's all great.

01:02:19Marc:Sure.

01:02:19Marc:But, you know, how do we fucking blow it up from the inside, dude?

01:02:23Yeah.

01:02:23Marc:It has to be done through the information platform.

01:02:25Marc:Right.

01:02:26Marc:It has to be done.

01:02:27Guest:I'm going to get on it.

01:02:28Guest:I'm going to get.

01:02:28Guest:You will?

01:02:29Guest:Yeah, I'll get my team.

01:02:30Guest:And well, I mean, listen, we'll just for us, we just will keep goofing on it.

01:02:34Guest:That's all I know how to do.

01:02:36Guest:But that's probably not enough, right?

01:02:39Marc:Well, the goof has to have, you know, the problem is, is that if there's a revelation in the goof.

01:02:43Marc:And, you know, ultimately what you've got to accept is that it's not going to change your target at all.

01:02:49Marc:Right.

01:02:50Marc:You know, it's not going to impact the target, but it kind of is with like these comics who are sort of like, whoa, whoa.

01:02:56Marc:All of a sudden, like, hey, you know, you owe us a favor.

01:02:59Right.

01:02:59Guest:Yeah.

01:03:00Guest:I think there's a fair amount of them that not to boast, but we're probably fans of ours that are uncomfortable with me.

01:03:09Guest:Yeah.

01:03:10Guest:And that is interesting.

01:03:11Marc:Yes.

01:03:12Marc:Yeah.

01:03:13Marc:I don't know.

01:03:13Marc:I do know that I landed something somewhere because.

01:03:16Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:03:16Marc:Talking about.

01:03:17Guest:Sure.

01:03:18Guest:Sure.

01:03:18Guest:And I think your your resonance is is impactful.

01:03:21Guest:And.

01:03:22Marc:giving some cover for other people to be more well that's all we can hope for right yeah yeah i just i i just i wish that there was some the problem is everything's decentralized there's no you know common language there's no you know a full community of people that are making choices as a community it's everyone's just sort of shut in with an insulated within their bubbles of what they take in yeah yeah and how do we unlock the brains but i mean look i i

01:03:49Marc:I've got no solutions, but there is something.

01:03:52Marc:And also when you land one of these things, even like elephant graveyard, it's like, are those just like-minded people watching it?

01:03:59Marc:But even that's fine if it raises an awareness to where conversations can happen.

01:04:04Guest:Well, yeah.

01:04:04Guest:And it like, again, back to my little parody I did, it's like it scratches an itch about what was bothering you about something.

01:04:11Guest:And it fills in some of the holes.

01:04:13Marc:That's right.

01:04:13Guest:Yeah.

01:04:14Marc:Yeah.

01:04:14Marc:We need more hole fillers.

01:04:15Marc:Yeah.

01:04:16Yeah.

01:04:16Marc:But so why do you think it's – how are you?

01:04:23Marc:Because with me, the negative attention, there's a couple ways to look at it that was brought to my attention by my producers.

01:04:30Marc:I don't like negative attention.

01:04:33Marc:It hurts me and it scares me.

01:04:34Marc:But I don't like being a coward either.

01:04:37Marc:And I don't like not feeling like I can speak freely.

01:04:40Marc:Right.

01:04:41Marc:Right.

01:04:41Marc:So you got to make a choice with that.

01:04:43Marc:Yeah.

01:04:43Marc:You can be only as diplomatic as you can be before you're like, fuck this.

01:04:47Marc:Right.

01:04:48Marc:And I've always been more fuck this, but you know what I'm saying?

01:04:51Marc:Because these guys love negative attention.

01:04:54Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:04:55Marc:But that's because they see it as like they pissed off the people they hate.

01:04:59Marc:Right.

01:05:00Marc:So, you know, on some level, you've got to reframe the negative attention.

01:05:06Marc:It's like, oh, good.

01:05:06Marc:I'm glad I pissed these guys off.

01:05:09Guest:There's a little bit of that.

01:05:11Guest:I mean, there's some stuff that is just too funny to stop, to not talk about, and too crazy to not talk about.

01:05:19Guest:You know, if you saw any of that thing that Trump, him in the Oval Office with the hat on, that Trump was right about everything, and he looks like shit.

01:05:28Guest:Like, he is dying.

01:05:30Guest:Yeah.

01:05:30Guest:Right?

01:05:31Guest:And I think it's funny to talk about him dying.

01:05:33Guest:Yeah.

01:05:34Guest:You know?

01:05:34Guest:Yeah.

01:05:34Guest:yeah and i want to goof around about that and like what has what are we going to do with the body and how long is it going to take to burn it yeah yeah and you know what's it going to smell like yeah well also there's this idea that like like once people get past the fact it's like you know calling them out on double standards it means nothing i know well of course yeah like no i will i'm i have the capacity to get very crude and dark yeah and i like going into that place yeah because it's it transcends all that

01:06:03Guest:Yeah, and it's also, like, a lot of my comedy, I think, comes from, like, a place of meaninglessness.

01:06:10Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:06:11Guest:Well, like, we're all going to fucking end up in the dirt.

01:06:14Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:06:15Guest:So let's goof around about it a little bit.

01:06:17Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:06:17Guest:At least acknowledge it.

01:06:19Marc:Yeah, I try to.

01:06:20Guest:Every morning.

01:06:21Marc:Yeah.

01:06:24Marc:So what is happening right now with you?

01:06:26Marc:What are you doing?

01:06:28Marc:You're going to do those shows?

01:06:29Marc:Going to do those shows.

01:06:30Guest:And I don't have, you know, low stakes there.

01:06:33Guest:I'm just going to try some.

01:06:33Guest:Sure.

01:06:34Guest:So let's not focus.

01:06:35Guest:This is an international audience.

01:06:37Marc:That's a small room.

01:06:38Marc:Don't fly in for the Elysian.

01:06:40Guest:I do have one thing to plug, which is a little hard to explain, but Greg Turkington, Mark Proach, and I, Mark, people will know from what we do in the shadows.

01:06:50Guest:Yeah.

01:06:52Guest:And the K-Strauss yo-yo guy who's on The Office.

01:06:55Guest:Yeah.

01:06:56Guest:Him, Mark, and Greg and I have had a text thread for, and I'm sure you do too with certain funny people.

01:07:02Guest:I can't keep up.

01:07:03Guest:But we've had one for 12, 13 years.

01:07:06Guest:Yeah.

01:07:06Guest:That's, like, legitimately the funniest thing that I experience, like, on a regular basis.

01:07:13Guest:It is cry-laughing material.

01:07:15Guest:Yeah.

01:07:16Guest:That is me and Greg beating up on Mark.

01:07:18Guest:Yeah.

01:07:18Guest:Trying to get him to do shit.

01:07:19Guest:Yeah.

01:07:19Guest:Trying to get him to... And it got... We all love it.

01:07:23Guest:Yeah.

01:07:24Guest:And we invest a lot of time in it.

01:07:26Guest:Yeah.

01:07:26Guest:Like, we...

01:07:27Guest:Like we do it like all the time.

01:07:30Guest:Yeah.

01:07:31Guest:And we've started to edit them and compile them and we're putting them out as a weekly, like weekly serialized installments of short stories basically.

01:07:43Guest:Oh, really?

01:07:43Guest:And it's called, it's at marionswish.com, M-A-R-I-O-N-S wish.com.

01:07:50Guest:Yeah.

01:07:50Guest:And you sign up for it and you get this every week.

01:07:53Guest:Yeah.

01:07:53Guest:You get this little piece.

01:07:54Guest:And it's, we have, you know, a couple thousand pages of material to go through.

01:07:59Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:08:00Guest:And it's very crude and it's very disgusting.

01:08:03Guest:And, you know, it was meant for just the three of us.

01:08:06Guest:Yeah.

01:08:07Guest:And now we're picking the bones of our private... Yeah, your private...

01:08:11Guest:Perverse comedy.

01:08:13Guest:We put out like a small chunk in 2020 called Marion's Wish.

01:08:18Guest:And we put it out as like a free e-book.

01:08:22Guest:And people loved it.

01:08:23Guest:And we're just trying to figure out how to do more.

01:08:26Guest:And we're going to try it this way.

01:08:28Guest:That's fun.

01:08:29Marc:What about that movie you made in New Mexico when I ran into you out there?

01:08:32Guest:That's called Him.

01:08:33Guest:And by the way, that was a great...

01:08:36Guest:time with you.

01:08:37Guest:We had fun.

01:08:38Guest:Appreciate that.

01:08:38Guest:Ended up having dinner with... That's public, right?

01:08:41Guest:We can talk about that.

01:08:42Marc:Sure.

01:08:42Marc:Aubrey Plaza and... Margaret Qualley.

01:08:45Guest:Yeah, because they were staying down the street.

01:08:47Guest:But I don't know if you remember or if you've said this, but you're very nice.

01:08:52Guest:We ran into each other at the Burbank Airport.

01:08:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:08:56Guest:And I was thinking about this this morning that when...

01:08:59Guest:When you run into, like, a friend or somebody you know, both going on Southwest, you're just going to sit next to each other.

01:09:06Marc:Yeah, you can do that.

01:09:08Marc:Yeah.

01:09:08Marc:Well, you have to do that.

01:09:09Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:09Guest:It would be weird, I think, to not.

01:09:11Guest:Yeah, if you didn't.

01:09:11Guest:You go find your seat.

01:09:13Guest:Yeah, okay.

01:09:15Guest:But anyway, yeah, you took me out to Los Poblanos.

01:09:18Guest:Yes, yeah.

01:09:19Guest:And we get there, and you say to the hostess, are there any famous people here tonight?

01:09:25Yeah.

01:09:26Guest:As like a joke, kind of.

01:09:28Guest:Yeah.

01:09:28Guest:But also like, you know, hey, just plain, I think you knew her or something.

01:09:32Guest:Yeah, yeah, I did, yeah.

01:09:32Guest:But just like, you know, hey, it's me.

01:09:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:36Marc:Who are the famous people?

01:09:37Marc:Yeah.

01:09:37Marc:Because they all stay there, yeah.

01:09:38Marc:Yeah.

01:09:38Guest:And you were right, because there was Aubrey and Margaret, and we know them, or I knew Aubrey very well.

01:09:44Guest:Yeah.

01:09:45Guest:And I didn't know who...

01:09:47Guest:I didn't know who Margaret Wally was.

01:09:49Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:49Guest:I had seen her in movies, I guess.

01:09:51Guest:Yeah.

01:09:52Guest:But I didn't put it together.

01:09:53Guest:Yeah, she's pretty great.

01:09:54Guest:She was great.

01:09:54Guest:That was fun.

01:09:55Marc:And we had a great time.

01:09:56Marc:Yeah, and then we went to that weird little stand-up show.

01:09:57Guest:And then you did stand-up, and I just want to say, it was just like a local thing.

01:10:02Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:03Marc:It was local.

01:10:03Marc:A little alt-comedy-ish.

01:10:04Guest:Some of the people weren't going to go far in this business.

01:10:07Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:08Guest:But you came out, and I was just moved by just how much better you were than everybody else.

01:10:13Guest:Thank God.

01:10:14Guest:Just like, well, yeah.

01:10:15Guest:But just to watch somebody kind of...

01:10:17Guest:Just try a couple things.

01:10:19Guest:I'm always impressed with people that are very good at what they do.

01:10:22Guest:Well, thanks, man.

01:10:23Guest:I appreciate that.

01:10:24Guest:It was fun.

01:10:25Marc:But that movie's called Him.

01:10:26Marc:Is that the football movie?

01:10:27Guest:It is a football horror movie.

01:10:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:29Guest:It looks pretty intense.

01:10:30Guest:It's really... I haven't seen it, but it's... I didn't see you in the trailer.

01:10:34Guest:No, I didn't make the trailer.

01:10:35Guest:And I think...

01:10:36Guest:I mean, I know I'm in it.

01:10:38Guest:Yeah.

01:10:39Guest:I think there's an element to my character that you might not want to put in the trailer, if that makes sense.

01:10:43Guest:Okay.

01:10:44Guest:I guess.

01:10:45Guest:That's a good promo.

01:10:46Guest:They told me I'm good in it.

01:10:48Guest:Okay.

01:10:49Guest:You know, thank God Jordan Peele and his company –

01:10:52Guest:Our fans?

01:10:54Guest:Think of me for things.

01:10:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:56Guest:The second movie I'm doing with them.

01:10:57Guest:And Marlon's great, right?

01:10:59Guest:Yeah.

01:11:00Guest:I always have fun with Marlon.

01:11:01Guest:Well, I wasn't in anything with him, but apparently he's great.

01:11:05Marc:Yeah, he's a good actor, but he's a funny guy.

01:11:07Marc:He's a guy that, like, he likes to laugh.

01:11:09Guest:So if you get them going, it's pretty fun.

01:11:11Guest:It's so nerve-wracking doing that stuff.

01:11:13Guest:I don't know how you feel about it.

01:11:14Guest:I think it's just like... A lot of waiting.

01:11:17Guest:Yeah.

01:11:18Guest:And do you have this thing?

01:11:19Guest:I have this thing where first day, I never sleep the night before.

01:11:22Guest:I get so nervous.

01:11:24Guest:It's hard, yeah.

01:11:25Guest:And then that fucks you so badly because not only are you still nervous, but you're also sleep deprived.

01:11:33Guest:Just that first couple of scenes where you're supposed to say the things.

01:11:36Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:37Guest:I don't care how many times I've gone over it and worked on it.

01:11:41Guest:It comes out like, let me just do it.

01:11:45Guest:Can I go back and do that again?

01:11:47Guest:Shit.

01:11:47Guest:And then you feel like, what am I doing?

01:11:50Guest:I've got three lines.

01:11:51Guest:How did I get in this position?

01:11:53Marc:Yeah.

01:11:54Marc:Yeah.

01:11:55Marc:It's a taxing undertaking, all that, for a lot of reasons.

01:11:58Marc:But it leveled off.

01:12:00Guest:Yeah.

01:12:00Guest:And then I get, everyone's nice.

01:12:02Guest:Everyone's cool.

01:12:02Guest:Everyone, you know, I find my pace.

01:12:06Guest:Yeah.

01:12:07Marc:And it's also a collaborative thing.

01:12:08Marc:It's not all, you know, you weren't the lead or anything.

01:12:10Marc:No, I was not the lead.

01:12:11Marc:Yeah.

01:12:12Guest:Yeah.

01:12:12Guest:It'll be fun.

01:12:13Guest:It's fun to be in those big movies because those are the things that everyone sees and then people see.

01:12:17Marc:Hey, there he was.

01:12:17Marc:Yeah.

01:12:18Marc:Hey, man, it was cool.

01:12:19Marc:I saw you in that movie.

01:12:20Marc:I saw you in that thing.

01:12:21Guest:All right, man.

01:12:21Guest:Well, I'm so glad to talk to you.

01:12:23Guest:Yeah, it was fun.

01:12:24Guest:Congratulations.

01:12:25Guest:Thanks, man.

01:12:26Thank you.

01:12:31Marc:There you go.

01:12:31Marc:TimHeidecker.com to sign up for alerts about his tour dates and to check out all the various shows he does.

01:12:38Marc:Funny guy, smart guy, interesting guy.

01:12:41Marc:Hang out for a minute.

01:12:45Marc:Hey, people.

01:12:46Marc:On Thursday, I talked to one of our great American film directors.

01:12:49Marc:Mr. Spike Lee joins me in the garage.

01:12:51Marc:I also like the two comedy things because I'm a comic.

01:12:54Marc:The original Kings of Comedy...

01:12:56Marc:which is great.

01:13:00Marc:Thank you.

01:13:01Marc:I remember I was at the, what year was that?

01:13:06Marc:I was at the comedy festival in Aspen, Colorado, probably in the mid nineties and they had flown a Bernie out there.

01:13:13Marc:And it's the middle of the snow, Bernie.

01:13:17Marc:And there's only white people in Aspen.

01:13:20Marc:And it was one of the best things I ever fucking saw in my life.

01:13:24Marc:Yeah, because, you know, he's bringing a world just by nature of who he is.

01:13:29Marc:It's just that there's a raw world that has not been made, you know...

01:13:36Marc:In any way, sort of like something that not white people can necessarily understand.

01:13:41Marc:And to see it in Aspen, Colorado.

01:13:45Marc:They dug it, though, right?

01:13:47Marc:Well, when they got past the fear.

01:13:52Marc:Had to get past that first, right?

01:13:54Marc:Yeah, sometimes it's hard, you know.

01:13:57Marc:I understand.

01:13:58Marc:I understand.

01:13:59Marc:That's Thursday's show.

01:14:00Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

01:14:04Marc:I think I've done this song before, but I don't think I've done it on acoustic.

01:14:09Marc:Just trying to do this jigsaw puzzle.

01:14:21do do

01:14:54so

01:15:24do do

01:16:22you

01:16:48Marc:Boomer lives.

01:16:50Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.

01:16:51Marc:Cat angels everywhere.