Episode 1672 - Jeremy Allen White

Episode 1672 • Released August 25, 2025 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:16Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:17Marc:It's called WTF.

00:00:19Marc:What is happening?

00:00:19Marc:How's everything going with you?

00:00:21Marc:Not getting any easier, really, is it?

00:00:24Marc:But I'm trying to level off.

00:00:27Marc:I'm trying to get out of my head or maybe spend at least half the day outside my head.

00:00:33Marc:Is that possible?

00:00:34Marc:I'm talking about real time.

00:00:36Marc:Not head time.

00:00:37Marc:I'm starting to realize head time is much different than real time.

00:00:41Marc:And I think head time is eating up a lot of my real time.

00:00:46Marc:Does that make sense?

00:00:47Marc:Maybe I'll try to explain that.

00:00:49Marc:Before I get...

00:00:51Marc:thinking out loud, I'd like to say that Jeremy Allen White is here.

00:00:56Marc:He's here today.

00:00:57Marc:It's going to happen.

00:00:59Marc:You know him from The Bear, Shameless, The Iron Claw, and he's playing Bruce Springsteen in the new movie, Deliver Me From Nowhere.

00:01:07Marc:Look, I met him on set.

00:01:08Marc:He was very into his work.

00:01:11Marc:And as I learned during the...

00:01:13Marc:During the interview, he wasn't feeling that well.

00:01:16Marc:The day I met him, he was exhausted and maybe a little under the weather.

00:01:20Marc:But we had we talked a little bit.

00:01:22Marc:I had no real sense of how we would be on here.

00:01:25Marc:But we had a great conversation.

00:01:27Marc:And that's we talked about a lot of stuff.

00:01:30Marc:And he's a very engaged and thoughtful guy.

00:01:33Marc:So that's going to happen now.

00:01:35Marc:Still kind of coming down from all the press and the couple of weeks that the special was up there, kind of leveling off into the work again.

00:01:46Marc:And I'm not even sure I want to do that.

00:01:49Marc:I do not know how to stop.

00:01:51Marc:I do not know.

00:01:53Marc:And given that, my show at Largo this Thursday is sold out.

00:01:57Marc:But I'll be back there with the band on Wednesday, September 10th.

00:02:00Marc:I'm also doing this little show that probably could use some love.

00:02:05Marc:It's a small show, Tuesday night.

00:02:07Marc:I'm doing it with Allie Makofsky.

00:02:11Marc:And it's her show.

00:02:12Marc:And they do sort of, I don't know if it's every Tuesday or it's once a month.

00:02:17Marc:But I will be there tomorrow night.

00:02:20Marc:It's called Last Tuesday Ever.

00:02:21Marc:It's a bad ladder.

00:02:22Marc:It's me and Adam Ray and a couple other people.

00:02:25Marc:Very small, very small show, though.

00:02:27Marc:So if you want to see me in that kind of environment, I will throw the link up there at WTF pod dot com slash tour so you can get tickets for tomorrow night.

00:02:37Marc:Also.

00:02:38Marc:We'll be doing our final Ask Mark Anything bonus episodes next month.

00:02:42Marc:So send in your questions.

00:02:43Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description of today's show and send me whatever you want to ask.

00:02:48Marc:The Ask Mark Anything bonus episodes will roll out for full Marin subscribers in a few weeks.

00:02:54Marc:And that's what's up.

00:02:55Marc:You know, I mean, I believe that they posted my Pod Save America episode.

00:03:01Marc:It's weird.

00:03:01Marc:I had not been in that environment in a long time where the sort of drive of the show is specifically to talk about politics and try to infuse that with a little hope, which I'm not great at in that world at this point in time, the political world.

00:03:16Marc:But I think we had a great conversation about a lot of stuff.

00:03:19Marc:So you can check that out.

00:03:21Marc:And I can't say enough.

00:03:23Marc:That if you want to go look at the work of a guy calling himself Elephant Graveyard on YouTube, it's definitely worth looking at.

00:03:34Marc:He's the Adam Curtis of of doc making about comedy.

00:03:40Marc:And the last two have been amazing.

00:03:43Marc:I got to be honest with you.

00:03:45Marc:Yeah, if you go to YouTube, he's got a channel there called The Elephant Graveyard.

00:03:50Marc:And the last three, the newest one is called Comedy Jonestown.

00:03:55Marc:The one before that is called Comedy Czar.

00:03:58Marc:The one before that is Career Ending.

00:04:00Marc:He does good work in general.

00:04:02Marc:He's very thoughtful.

00:04:03Marc:And he really sets his eyes on the current comedy world's connection to a fascist

00:04:11Marc:an authoritarian government.

00:04:14Marc:And this new one really kind of focuses on the techno bro element of fascism within comedy.

00:04:25Marc:And I think it's important work.

00:04:26Marc:And I've reached out to that guy, but I don't know who he is.

00:04:30Marc:He's anonymous.

00:04:32Marc:I know he's Canadian.

00:04:33Marc:I would have liked to have had him on the show, but it doesn't seem that that's in the cards, but the work is there.

00:04:38Marc:That's the elephant graveyard.

00:04:41Marc:On YouTube.

00:04:43Marc:I would check that out if I were you.

00:04:45Marc:It's sort of he speaks in the same world that I speak in about this stuff, but he's much more thorough and a true free thinker.

00:04:55Marc:So I would do that if I were you.

00:04:58Marc:As for me, I'm starting to have some realizations about the monster we carry with us at all times, that being the phone.

00:05:07Marc:And I don't think there's anything trivial or trite or not necessary to talk about the impact of the constant pummeling that we put our brains through with information.

00:05:19Marc:And I've talked about this many times before, but I've sort of been hung up on this idea that

00:05:26Marc:that our sense of time, or at least mine, kind of has changed since COVID.

00:05:34Marc:And outside of PTSD, being that that was a three-year period where there was true terror in the minds of most of us about a disease and how to handle it,

00:05:48Marc:But there's something else that I started to realize about the nature of time in relation to it feels like it's moving fast or it's not kind of connected to days anymore, that everything just becomes one long sort.

00:06:03Marc:of experience that happens at different paces.

00:06:07Marc:But as I've been saying lately, that I don't generally feel time flies by, but I do all of a sudden realize I'm 61 years old and I'm going to be 62.

00:06:18Marc:And I started to think more about the impact of COVID, but I realized it's the impact of COVID

00:06:25Marc:And it's the impact of our phones and the impact of jamming our brain with information technology of one kind or another, either for distraction or a need for connection or a need for information.

00:06:39Marc:And the way time works on your phone is much different than the way time works in life or when you're disconnected from all your devices.

00:06:49Marc:It's a completely different time zone.

00:06:51Marc:I think it's many different time zones, but I think our brain processes that.

00:06:55Marc:in a different way.

00:06:57Marc:People talking in videos on TikTok or on Instagram or on YouTube, having done radio in my life and knowing the type of mania one has to kind of get themselves into to drive a show of any kind, to broadcast on microphones, even this one, to sort of move through it without pausing too much, unless you're doing it for dramatic effect, takes a slightly heightened way of engagement.

00:07:24Marc:And I would say that's definitely in the mania spectrum, that there is an intensity of tone, of the way you kind of talk, the speed you talk, the intensity of the talk.

00:07:39Marc:I do feel it's a heightened change.

00:07:41Marc:type of engagement.

00:07:42Marc:And it's not necessarily that spontaneous.

00:07:46Marc:It's usually driving at something.

00:07:48Marc:I know I am right now.

00:07:49Marc:And I know that my tone right now is different than how I might be when I talk to somebody else or I think.

00:07:57Marc:So if you're kind of engaging with the phone all the time with any number of hundreds of reels or bits and pieces of what they call content coming at you, it's going to be at this heightened tone.

00:08:11Marc:And it's going and your brain is going to receive it like that.

00:08:14Marc:So I think that in itself is sort of an exhausting thing and it doesn't happen in real time.

00:08:19Marc:But just on a practical level, in terms of time getting away from me or maybe you, I don't know if they still have that thing on the phone, which how much screen time you spend there.

00:08:29Marc:But you might not know that it's hours a day and that's hours a day that is not moving anymore.

00:08:35Marc:at the pace of life.

00:08:37Marc:It's moving at the pace that your brain is taking in all this heightened pounding that you're putting it through, you know, shifting time zones, you know, every minute, every 30 seconds, every, you know, your brain just kind of locks into whatever the tone of whatever is happening.

00:08:53Marc:And it's completely inhuman.

00:08:55Marc:And I do think on some level it's eating our time.

00:09:00Marc:Is that possible?

00:09:01Marc:Does that seem like a logical interpretation?

00:09:05Marc:Yeah, I have to make some conscious decisions.

00:09:08Marc:I'm going to have time.

00:09:09Marc:I'm excited to have the time.

00:09:11Marc:But I'm really, I think, I've said this before, but years ago, Dennis Miller said,

00:09:19Marc:at the beginning of the internet, had said something that I never forget.

00:09:25Marc:There are certain things that stick in your head that he said that the internet is going to make crack look like Sanka.

00:09:32Marc:And that didn't really make sense until now, until the idea of detaching from the phone in a very real way becomes something that I'm going to have to figure out

00:09:42Marc:How to do that, because you do look to it for for news, for distraction, for emotional engagement, for validation, whatever it is.

00:09:50Marc:And it's a powerful fucking drug, probably the most powerful one existing today.

00:09:56Marc:I will stand by that 100 percent because everyone is on it.

00:10:00Marc:Some people don't know that their life has become unmanageable because of it.

00:10:05Marc:Certainly the people that are feeding it every day because that's their job.

00:10:09Marc:But the detachment from it, I don't know.

00:10:12Marc:It's going to be something I'm thinking about because I think I need to engage in real time again.

00:10:19Marc:And my real time is not without excitement.

00:10:21Marc:As you know, I have an ongoing cat issue with Charlie Beans Roscoe.

00:10:26Marc:And where we're at with that right now, I can tell you.

00:10:30Marc:Is that after engaging with the vet, you know, he was on the Prozac for two and a half weeks and it fucked him up.

00:10:38Marc:It made him different.

00:10:39Marc:And I was waiting to wait it out, but it did not deal like it totally had an effect on him, but it did not affect his aggression towards the other cat Buster.

00:10:49Marc:So I kept talking to the vet and telling her this.

00:10:53Marc:And, you know, I was willing to wait, but it really just wasn't.

00:10:56Marc:It was definitely doing something.

00:10:58Marc:He was a different cat and I didn't love it, but it was not doing anything about the aggression.

00:11:04Marc:And I kept telling her about that.

00:11:05Marc:And I decided we decided to take him off it.

00:11:09Marc:And and also, you know, alongside of that, we put Buster on the same drug I'm on.

00:11:15Marc:So me and Buster are both on Buspirone.

00:11:19Marc:And we'll see how that goes for both of us.

00:11:22Marc:And Charlie is now just readjusting to his insanity.

00:11:27Marc:But on top of that, I'm trying to do something.

00:11:30Marc:I do not want to have to give this cat away because I do love this cat.

00:11:36Marc:And and Jackson Galaxy, who I talked to here, has been in touch with me and he thinks he can solve it.

00:11:44Marc:So the approach now is with the vet and with Jackson and I've engaged another cat behavioralist.

00:11:52Marc:is to separate them at different times during the day, to switch them out so that they each have time in the bigger part of the house where they can both feel like kings.

00:12:03Marc:So that's the project now, is getting Charlie off the Prozac, putting Buster on the Buspyron, and switching them out during the day so they can both feel like they've got ownership of the house.

00:12:16Marc:and me, I guess.

00:12:17Marc:And the hilarious thing is Sam, the stupid Sam, who is probably turning out to be the best cat I have, is in the middle of all this, and he still minds his own fucking business.

00:12:27Marc:He operates at his own pace, and he's become more connected to me in the midst of all this separating the two alpha idiots at different intervals.

00:12:38Marc:He's kind of locked into me a little more, so that's a benefit.

00:12:41Marc:So this is the life of real time, and it...

00:12:44Marc:You know, I can project and engage and be just as distracted and worked up as I am if I'm on my phone flipping through garbage and also just sitting on the porch.

00:12:55Marc:There's something about real life time that I think we got to get used to again.

00:13:01Marc:It's not that compelling sometimes when you're just alone.

00:13:05Marc:It's not doesn't fill the hole per se, but maybe it's OK to live in the hole for a little while.

00:13:11Marc:Don't you think?

00:13:12Marc:I think so.

00:13:14Marc:I want to thank all the people who came out last night to the American Cinematheque screening of McCabe and Mrs. Miller at the Arrow Theater, which I hosted and did a short intro.

00:13:25Marc:As many of you know, I've been obsessed with that movie since I was a teenager because it was really the first movie that made me realize, holy shit, there's a lot going on in these movies.

00:13:34Marc:And the naturalism and the lighting and the Leonard Cohen music and the...

00:13:39Marc:Vilmos Zygmunt cinematography and Altman's direction and all the great acting.

00:13:44Marc:It's a naturalism that you don't see in films anymore.

00:13:48Marc:And it's a period piece.

00:13:50Marc:And there's a lot of themes going on there.

00:13:51Marc:I think at the core, it's probably about a guy just going through the difficulties of starting a film.

00:13:58Marc:A small business and he's up against corporate interests, but it is a revisionist Western.

00:14:03Marc:And there's such an intimacy to it.

00:14:05Marc:And there's such a interesting take on on gender roles and on the myth of the West and and individualism.

00:14:13Marc:And it's it's.

00:14:14Marc:I would say that McCabe is is most definitely a tragic comic figure.

00:14:20Marc:And I'm obsessed with his jacket and his hat for different reasons.

00:14:23Marc:I think they imply something.

00:14:25Marc:The hat is a bowler hat, which to me in film signifies Charlie Chaplin.

00:14:30Marc:And the coat is this massive bearskin coat.

00:14:34Marc:So he's sort of a clown.

00:14:36Marc:In bears clothing, a tragic clown, but I can watch that movie anytime.

00:14:42Marc:And the print was just spectacular.

00:14:44Marc:Thank you, American Cinematheque, for having me.

00:14:46Marc:So look, Jeremy Allen White is an actor.

00:14:52Marc:He's very popular right now.

00:14:54Marc:He's kind of hard to read, I think, and you can kind of project on to who he is with the different roles he plays.

00:15:00Marc:He's nominated at the Emmys this year for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy Series for The Bear.

00:15:05Marc:The Bruce Springsteen film, Deliver Me From Nowhere, which I am in as well, opens in October, but it makes its world premiere this weekend at Telluride Film Festival.

00:15:14Marc:And this is me talking to Jeremy Allen White.

00:15:20Marc:How much longer?

00:15:28Marc:Like another month and change.

00:15:31Marc:Wow, that's something man.

00:15:34Marc:End of an era.

00:15:35Marc:Heavy, super heavy.

00:15:36Marc:Yeah, it's sort of a big deal to end things of any kind.

00:15:39Marc:Yeah, of course.

00:15:40Marc:And I don't.

00:15:40Guest:It's been such a long time.

00:15:41Marc:I know.

00:15:42Marc:I don't think I've quite, like, we've given it enough time to, I'm prepared.

00:15:47Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:48Marc:But it's like any other relationship.

00:15:51Marc:Sure.

00:15:51Marc:That, you know, there's a loss to it.

00:15:55Marc:But not unlike other relationships, you know, I've had my time.

00:16:01Marc:Sure, sure, sure.

00:16:02Marc:On some level, I've had enough.

00:16:04Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:05Marc:Not in a bad way, but it's like it's a lot.

00:16:09Marc:And so much of my...

00:16:10Marc:time in life goes into doing it.

00:16:14Marc:Yeah.

00:16:14Marc:And I think talking to people like this is probably my primary social life.

00:16:22Guest:Sure, sure, sure, sure.

00:16:22Guest:It's kind of nice to have a work built in social life, though.

00:16:26Guest:Sometimes I wish I had something like that, you know?

00:16:28Marc:Well, yeah, it's kind of odd because I have conversations with people, and they're usually pretty thorough and connected, and then they just go away.

00:16:38Guest:Sure, but I was wondering, I mean, if you walk into a party or something like that, is it just so easy for you to get around because you kind of have had...

00:16:46Marc:Really great conversation with most people in those kind of rooms, you know, it is like I never I still I don't think I have a full awareness of my impact in the world or whether or not people necessarily remember me as I remember it, you know, because a lot of times people are on junkets or they're just doing these things.

00:17:04Marc:I mean, most people know who I am.

00:17:06Marc:Yeah.

00:17:06Marc:But I don't know.

00:17:07Marc:Am I any different than any?

00:17:09Marc:Any other, you know, interview they've done?

00:17:11Marc:Sometimes I think that.

00:17:12Guest:Maybe for some people, but I don't know, man.

00:17:14Marc:I mean, I think most people know the deal.

00:17:17Marc:Yeah, there's some people that I definitely feel connected with, and it always surprises me.

00:17:22Marc:Sometimes it's kind of great.

00:17:23Marc:Like, you know, I went to a party, and I saw Jeff Goldblum there, and I interviewed him years ago.

00:17:28Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:28Marc:And he was like, oh, my God.

00:17:29Marc:Yeah, there's some guys like, you know, I'm pretty good friends with Tracy Letts.

00:17:33Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:34Marc:There's a couple of people that I've had on that, you know, I have kind of friendships with.

00:17:37Marc:Johnny Knoxville's another guy that's always pretty happy to see me.

00:17:40Guest:Where it's like the friendship is born from being in a room like this?

00:17:44Marc:Well, kind of, or at least a familiarity of connection.

00:17:47Marc:Sure.

00:17:47Marc:You know, there's some people that I've done this show with, and I'm not even sure they remember doing it, but that's just me.

00:17:52Marc:You know, but to answer the question, yes.

00:17:54Marc:I do feel like I'm part of this thing as whatever I am.

00:17:59Guest:Yeah.

00:17:59Marc:You know, and but there haven't been a lot of people that I outside of guys I know outside that I've really kind of, you know, remained buds with.

00:18:07Marc:Gotcha.

00:18:08Marc:But I'm, you know, I'm old.

00:18:08Marc:It's hard to make friends.

00:18:09Marc:Sure.

00:18:10Marc:Sure.

00:18:10Marc:It's hard to maintain those things.

00:18:11Marc:Yeah.

00:18:11Marc:What are you going to do?

00:18:12Marc:Like they're like, you know, have you worked with Josh Brolin?

00:18:15Guest:No, no, never.

00:18:16Marc:Do you know him?

00:18:17Guest:I don't, but I just did a thing with Austin Butler, and I know him and Austin have a really special thing.

00:18:23Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:18:23Marc:I had Austin on, but I don't get the sense that we're pals.

00:18:28Guest:Yeah?

00:18:28Marc:I bet he'd be happy to see you, though.

00:18:30Marc:Sure, he's a nice guy, but he's one of those guys where sometimes there's so much happening for a guy, and they're so in the zone of showing up for these things, where you don't exactly know if...

00:18:45Marc:It's a tricky thing, how I perceive people connect with me.

00:18:52Marc:I'm sure he'd be happy to see me, but I'd be like, do you remember?

00:18:54Marc:I did that to Jack White once, and it was almost like I interviewed Jack White years ago in Nashville, and then years later, I saw him at the airport, and I didn't even know if I could go up to him.

00:19:06Marc:Sure, sure.

00:19:06Marc:And I was like, hey, man, Mark, remember?

00:19:09Marc:He's like, fuck, of course.

00:19:10Marc:I don't know what the fuck I'm thinking.

00:19:11Marc:I came over to his goddamn house.

00:19:13Marc:Of course.

00:19:14Guest:People remember these things.

00:19:16Marc:Sometimes they do.

00:19:17Marc:But the point with Josh was, though, like, I rarely, you know, like, I rarely kind of follow up.

00:19:25Marc:I don't feel it's my place in terms of boundaries in the job to, you know, I'll give you a call sometime or something like that.

00:19:31Marc:Some people.

00:19:31Marc:Yeah.

00:19:33Marc:But like Josh and I had a long conversation about Zins.

00:19:37Marc:You know, I got fucking two Zins in my mouth right now.

00:19:39Marc:And he's like a Zin junkie.

00:19:40Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:19:41Marc:And I got this place where I can get the flavored ones here, which are illegal.

00:19:45Marc:So I was like, I'll tell you what it is.

00:19:47Marc:And he gave me a phone number and I'll text you the place.

00:19:50Marc:And I don't even know if it was a real phone.

00:19:51Guest:Right, right, right, right, right.

00:19:55Marc:I never heard back from him, and I realized, like, this has got to probably be his third phone, maybe his assistant's phone.

00:20:00Marc:Sure, sure, sure.

00:20:01Marc:But he's such a charming fucker.

00:20:02Marc:Yeah, he's charismatic, man.

00:20:04Marc:Yeah, because, you know, he walks in, and you feel like your best friends are ready, and I buy it.

00:20:09Marc:Of course.

00:20:09Marc:Yeah, but nothing.

00:20:11Marc:No, like, I got the shit, nothing.

00:20:12Marc:I bet he'd be happy to see you, too.

00:20:14Marc:Yeah, well, I think he's got a zone or a vibe that he works with where you always feel he's got that charisma that's very honed.

00:20:22Marc:Yes.

00:20:22Marc:So he's one of those guys where he's going to make you feel special even if it's for a minute or two.

00:20:27Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:27Guest:And you walk away like, yeah, he's kind of my bud.

00:20:30Guest:Those guys are special, man.

00:20:31Guest:Those guys that can make you feel like the sun's kind of shining on you, you know?

00:20:34Guest:Clooney, same way.

00:20:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:35Marc:Clooney, like, was surprising.

00:20:36Marc:He actually is a very decent fella.

00:20:40Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:41Marc:You know that guy?

00:20:42Marc:Oh, no, never met him, no.

00:20:43Marc:Yeah, because I went to—like, I interviewed him.

00:20:45Marc:It was over Zoom during COVID.

00:20:46Marc:And he was—you know, he knew me and what I'd gone through with losing my partner and stuff.

00:20:51Marc:That's right.

00:20:53Marc:But he—you know, he was very generous during the interview.

00:20:57Marc:But then I saw him, like—

00:20:58Marc:I don't know how long ago, how much later it was, but it was like a press screening of that movie he directed.

00:21:05Guest:Yeah.

00:21:05Marc:That Tender Bar movie.

00:21:07Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:21:08Guest:Ben Affleck.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:09Marc:Right.

00:21:09Marc:No, I was just there with the press.

00:21:11Marc:I was going to interview maybe Ben.

00:21:13Marc:I don't remember who it was supposed to, but I was there.

00:21:15Marc:It was just a daytime screening for press guys.

00:21:19Marc:And but he walked in, you know, and I was heading to the bathroom.

00:21:23Marc:He just made a beeline to me, like, you know, like out of everybody.

00:21:26Marc:He's like, you all right?

00:21:27Marc:You know, sweet guy.

00:21:29Marc:You feel good.

00:21:29Marc:Yeah.

00:21:30Marc:Yeah.

00:21:30Marc:I'm a pretty sensitive fellow.

00:21:32Marc:Yeah.

00:21:32Marc:Me, too.

00:21:33Marc:I know.

00:21:34Marc:It seems like it.

00:21:35Marc:Yeah.

00:21:35Marc:I mean, we did that one scene in the movie.

00:21:37Marc:Oh, my God.

00:21:38Marc:I was in rough shape, I feel like, at the time.

00:21:41Marc:Well, I kind of sensed all that.

00:21:42Marc:It's a very weird thing to have such a, like, I had a small supporting role, but I knew you guys were locked in.

00:21:48Marc:And at that point, I don't even know where you were at.

00:21:51Guest:Like, we were about to break for kind of a holiday break.

00:21:55Guest:Is that right?

00:21:55Guest:It was like December, right?

00:21:56Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:57Guest:That sounds right, yeah.

00:21:58Guest:So, yeah, I feel like we had been going for two months pretty steady.

00:22:03Guest:Yeah.

00:22:04Guest:And I feel like I had gotten some kind of like bronchite.

00:22:08Guest:Oh, right, right, right.

00:22:09Guest:Something was going on.

00:22:10Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:11Guest:And we were just in it, too, exactly.

00:22:12Guest:That thing of just like once you're into it a couple weeks, a month, two months, you're just, you know.

00:22:17Marc:I know, it's taken me a while, you know, because of being on sets to just realize, like, and that's the other thing, too, about being on sets, when you ask me about friendships, and from work, you know, for years, I always thought, like, guys who do movies together, they gotta stay in touch, and it's like, yeah, no, they don't.

00:22:33Guest:No, not always, it's really rare, it's really rare, and it's disappointing, like, I remember the first, kind of, the job I did, I did this movie when I was 16, called After School, and

00:22:43Guest:So I was still in high school at the time.

00:22:45Guest:And we shot it during the summer.

00:22:48Guest:And it was a really young crew, young director of these guys at NYU.

00:22:50Guest:They were all like 23 and I was 16.

00:22:53Guest:And I thought I found all my best friends.

00:22:56Guest:You know what I mean?

00:22:57Guest:I was like, this is it.

00:22:58Guest:We're going to do this forever.

00:23:00Guest:And that was my first experience with that thing of like, it's sort of like just summer camp.

00:23:05Guest:You know what I mean?

00:23:06Guest:And then everybody goes off and they continue on.

00:23:09Guest:But you think in that moment, oh, this is it.

00:23:11Guest:I figured it out.

00:23:12Guest:You know?

00:23:12Marc:And I think that's part of the joy of doing it, if there isn't.

00:23:17Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:23:19Guest:Absolutely.

00:23:19Guest:But that was your first movie?

00:23:21Guest:That was... Yeah.

00:23:23Marc:No, not my first movie, but that was the one where I went, oh, this is... But it's a funny thing, because when you have that feeling, and then when you're done, it's even you, you're sort of like, I don't need to call that guy.

00:23:34Guest:I don't think...

00:23:35Marc:totally totally totally totally yeah yeah well you're waiting for the phone to ring and then when the phone doesn't ring then you're like yeah whatever yeah yeah well was it like you know because you guys you know strong works a certain way yeah and you know i interviewed him and like i like i i don't know if it's because of just who i am and a sort of uh zero fuck attitude like i i i kind of like busting his balls a little bit about

00:24:00Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:00Guest:I remember a little bit of that.

00:24:01Guest:I remember a little bit of that.

00:24:02Marc:About his process.

00:24:04Marc:It's just so funny because he's willing to talk to you as Jeremy, but he's going to do it as Landau.

00:24:09Guest:Yeah, totally.

00:24:10Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:11Guest:I mean, that man is, he cares so much.

00:24:14Guest:That's what it is.

00:24:15Guest:Yeah, that's what it is.

00:24:16Marc:Because it's not, he kind of gets this method thing, but I don't think it's method.

00:24:20Marc:I just think he's just immersive in order for him to do what he does.

00:24:24Guest:Yeah.

00:24:26Guest:Yeah.

00:24:27Guest:Yeah.

00:24:49Guest:But I think with some of these guys, they just feel like for themselves, maybe it's an insecurity.

00:24:55Guest:Maybe it's this.

00:24:56Guest:Maybe they don't feel like they deserve to be there.

00:24:57Guest:Whatever it is, they need to go ahead and push it all the way and do all the stuff to make it feel like they're deserving of that spot.

00:25:06Guest:But in my opinion, all these guys are brilliant regardless.

00:25:10Marc:You know what I mean?

00:25:10Marc:Yeah, totally.

00:25:11Marc:And on some level, just as someone who's doing it a little more than he used to, how do you make it interesting?

00:25:17Guest:Yeah.

00:25:18Marc:I mean, you know, and if you if you're compelled to do that, because it's a lot of waiting around.

00:25:23Marc:Yeah.

00:25:24Marc:And, you know, and to make that time on camera feel like it's worth it.

00:25:30Marc:Yeah.

00:25:30Marc:I mean, I guess you're going to do what you got to do.

00:25:32Guest:Yeah.

00:25:33Guest:It's a big like you got to start to figure out how you conserve that.

00:25:36Guest:Right.

00:25:37Guest:That energy.

00:25:37Marc:Yeah.

00:25:38Guest:But be satisfied creatively.

00:25:40Guest:Yeah.

00:25:40Marc:How now how long before you shot was he, you know, talking to you as John Landau?

00:25:46Guest:Um, I think, let's see.

00:25:50Guest:Jeremy and I, we hadn't met.

00:25:52Guest:We'd emailed a little bit.

00:25:53Guest:I think we share an agent, Max.

00:25:56Guest:So we'd been in touch, and I was a fan of his, and he reciprocated.

00:26:02Guest:But I think the first time we spent time together, yeah, he was already in it.

00:26:04Marc:Was he texting you as John Landau?

00:26:07Marc:A little bit, I think.

00:26:08Marc:A little bit, you know.

00:26:10Guest:But it was great because, you know, I mean, look, I love Jeremy.

00:26:16Guest:I've continued to talk to him a lot after we finished this.

00:26:19Guest:We talked a lot during it.

00:26:21Guest:And at first, you know, he was messaging me.

00:26:22Guest:And, you know, Landau and Bruce's relationship, Landau's such a supporter.

00:26:26Guest:Sure.

00:26:26Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:26:27Guest:And I was, like, getting these texts from Jeremy.

00:26:30Guest:And I was like, man, this guy's, like, so supportive and, like, loving and, you know, caring.

00:26:35Guest:And at the moment, I was like, oh, maybe he's just, you know, maybe he's just doing, like, a thing where he's in character.

00:26:42Guest:But then I discovered that he's that guy, too.

00:26:45Marc:You know what I mean?

00:26:45Marc:He's just, like, a really supportive.

00:26:47Marc:He loves acting.

00:26:48Marc:Are we doing the scene now?

00:26:49Guest:Right.

00:26:50Guest:There was something where I was like, maybe this is the thing.

00:26:52Guest:But as we got to know each other better and spend more time together, I just realized, you know, he loves actors.

00:26:56Guest:And that's not always the case, man.

00:26:58Guest:There's some actors that are like there's a real competition in there.

00:27:02Guest:Yeah.

00:27:03Guest:And and and strong.

00:27:04Guest:Just he loves actors.

00:27:06Guest:And I love those.

00:27:07Marc:How does that manifest?

00:27:08Marc:So like a competitive actor, like he's going to try to steal the scene kind of thing.

00:27:13Guest:I mean, maybe.

00:27:14Guest:Maybe something like that.

00:27:15Guest:Or, like, I don't know.

00:27:16Guest:Like, I started acting at such a young age.

00:27:18Guest:How old were you?

00:27:19Guest:I was, like, 14, 15.

00:27:21Marc:Really?

00:27:22Guest:There was always, like, a couple guys in front of me.

00:27:24Guest:Or the couple guys that always got everything.

00:27:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:26Guest:You know what I mean?

00:27:26Guest:And as a kid, I was angry, you know?

00:27:30Guest:I was like, you know, I could do this, I could do that, I could do this better than that.

00:27:34Guest:I could do, you know, all this stuff.

00:27:36Guest:And that eats you up.

00:27:38Guest:And I think with some people, that can...

00:27:40Guest:Sure.

00:27:41Guest:That can carry on, you know what I mean?

00:27:43Marc:Well, that sounds like it becomes a bitterness thing.

00:27:45Marc:Totally.

00:27:46Marc:So where'd you grow up?

00:27:47Marc:I grew up in Brooklyn, New York.

00:27:48Marc:Really?

00:27:49Marc:You were just a New York kid?

00:27:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:51Guest:I grew up like around Park Slope until I was eight.

00:27:55Guest:We lived in Baltimore for a couple years, strangely, like three years.

00:27:58Guest:For what?

00:27:59Guest:We had some family there, my dad's brother, and I think my parents and my little sister at that point, my younger sister, my parents wanted us to have like a bit of a yard and maybe like a suburban kind of thing because my dad had a brother there.

00:28:14Guest:He was like, maybe this is the spot.

00:28:17Guest:But nobody liked it.

00:28:18Guest:My parents didn't like it.

00:28:19Guest:I didn't really like it.

00:28:20Guest:I think my sister liked it because she was so young.

00:28:22Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:24Guest:But we came back when I was like 11.

00:28:25Marc:And what was the family business?

00:28:28Guest:So my dad had a business for a long time filming depositions, pretty much.

00:28:35Guest:He started his own business.

00:28:36Guest:He had a couple guys working for him.

00:28:39Guest:He did that for a while.

00:28:40Guest:And my mom was a special education teacher in kindergarten.

00:28:45Guest:And so they were always pretty supportive.

00:28:47Guest:Were they?

00:28:48Guest:Well, yeah, they actually they met.

00:28:50Guest:They were actors.

00:28:52Guest:So my mom grew up in North Carolina.

00:28:54Guest:Yeah.

00:28:55Guest:My mom grew up in North Carolina, went to North Carolina School of the Arts, which is a great arts college and studied acting there.

00:29:03Guest:But she moved to New York in the late 70s, early 80s with the big dreams.

00:29:07Guest:And my pops too.

00:29:08Guest:He grew up outside of Philly.

00:29:11Guest:And he moved there to pursue acting as well.

00:29:17Guest:So they're both living in the city kind of stuff?

00:29:19Guest:They're living in the city, yeah.

00:29:20Guest:I think they moved there late 70s, early 80s.

00:29:24Guest:And we're doing theater.

00:29:25Guest:We're doing their thing, you know.

00:29:26Guest:And as the story goes, sometimes I'm like, I got to talk to my dad about the story because I've taken it.

00:29:32Guest:for myself and it might be a little different but i like this story which is my dad saw my mom in a play fell in love with her ran out at intermission got her flowers asked her out afterwards and that's how they started uh seeing each other and that's how you you were delivered the story that's that's i believe how the story went yeah yeah yeah or now i've taken it and that's that's that's the story

00:29:55Marc:You think there might be a little space in there?

00:29:58Marc:Maybe.

00:29:59Guest:But, you know, that's very concise and clear for me.

00:30:01Guest:And that's how they met.

00:30:03Guest:And then, you know, they did it for a long time.

00:30:06Guest:Like off-Broadway?

00:30:07Guest:Yeah, off-Broadway stuff.

00:30:10Guest:And apparently my mom...

00:30:12Guest:Was very, very, very good.

00:30:15Guest:Yeah.

00:30:16Guest:And my dad will say it himself.

00:30:17Guest:He wasn't, you know, he wasn't as great.

00:30:20Guest:He kind of like over intellectualized things a little bit.

00:30:23Guest:Yeah.

00:30:23Guest:Familiar with that.

00:30:24Guest:Yeah.

00:30:24Guest:But my mom, my mom, I think, had the real the real thing, the real instinct for it.

00:30:30Guest:But, you know, it didn't take off for him because it's a hard thing.

00:30:34Guest:It's a hard, stupid life.

00:30:36Guest:Yeah, it is.

00:30:37Guest:Yeah.

00:30:37Guest:And they wanted to have a family.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah.

00:30:40Guest:And they were living on the Upper West Side at the time.

00:30:42Guest:Yeah.

00:30:43Guest:And and then my dad kind of figured out this business.

00:30:45Guest:They moved to Brooklyn and they had me.

00:30:49Marc:Oh, OK.

00:30:49Marc:Yeah.

00:30:50Marc:So he probably thinks on some level it's still creative.

00:30:52Marc:I'm shooting stuff.

00:30:53Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:30:53Guest:For sure.

00:30:54Guest:And, you know, they were support, you know, I, I grew up in a household that was very supportive of the arts.

00:31:01Guest:Yeah.

00:31:01Guest:Passion there.

00:31:01Marc:Yeah.

00:31:02Marc:You know what I mean?

00:31:02Marc:Did they did any of them?

00:31:04Marc:Did your mom do like community stuff after or nothing?

00:31:07Marc:Just like stopped acting.

00:31:08Marc:That was it.

00:31:09Guest:But she's retired now from from teaching.

00:31:12Guest:Yeah.

00:31:12Guest:And I think she did a she did a short film, actually, that was like somehow connected with my middle school drama teacher.

00:31:20Guest:Like he got her something in a short of an old student of his.

00:31:24Guest:Yeah.

00:31:25Guest:I think, you know, I wonder if she liked to mess around and do some stuff now.

00:31:29Guest:So when when you wanted to do it, you're how old were you?

00:31:33Guest:I guess seventh grade was the first time I remember doing that kind of thing, performing.

00:31:41Marc:What was that?

00:31:41Guest:Was it like a musical or something?

00:31:43Guest:That was this teacher, this teacher, John McEnany.

00:31:45Guest:And he taught at a school in Brooklyn, MS-51.

00:31:49Guest:And I joined the class.

00:31:53Guest:And yeah, it was just a...

00:31:56Guest:Improv sort of exercise and in a black box, you know, and I just remember the feeling of, you know Being able to focus which was very hard for me as a young person and still is and

00:32:11Guest:Feeling present, really, for kind of the first time.

00:32:14Guest:Especially with improv, because you've got to be in it.

00:32:17Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:32:18Guest:And I, of course, remember the attention.

00:32:20Guest:I felt the eyes on me, and I felt that people were waiting and connected and wanted to see what was going to happen next.

00:32:30Guest:And I was like, oh, this is pretty cool.

00:32:32Guest:That's a rush.

00:32:33Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:32:34Marc:That space always is kind of fucking insane.

00:32:38Marc:Yeah.

00:32:39Guest:Yeah, it horrifies me now.

00:32:40Guest:I couldn't, you know, yeah.

00:32:41Marc:I mean, I was on stage just the other night, and Martin Lawrence had come in, and he did a set.

00:32:47Marc:Wow, yeah.

00:32:48Marc:And he brought me up, and it was just this moment where, you know, I was kind of feeling, I'm just trying to feel stuff out now, because I just did a special, so I'm at square one.

00:32:57Marc:Sure.

00:32:57Marc:So I'm fucking off a bit.

00:32:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:59Marc:And I said a few things, and then there was just that silence, and I had that, and I've done this before, I have that moment where I just say out loud, I'm like, you're all just waiting for me to do something.

00:33:06Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:07Marc:And then I just said, let's just sit in this for a minute.

00:33:09Marc:There you go.

00:33:10Guest:But it was terrible.

00:33:11Guest:Why?

00:33:12Guest:How do they react when you do that?

00:33:14Guest:How are they going to react?

00:33:15Guest:They're the comedy audience, and they're like, what is happening?

00:33:17Guest:Is it funny, though?

00:33:18Guest:Is it uncomfortable?

00:33:20Guest:Is there something in that space that feels interesting, you know?

00:33:22Guest:Well, it's interesting because it is uncomfortable.

00:33:24Marc:Yeah.

00:33:24Marc:Like, I know I'll get out of it.

00:33:26Marc:Sure.

00:33:26Marc:Most likely.

00:33:27Marc:But just to stop everything, just have that weird moment.

00:33:30Marc:Like, when you're on stage and you're kind of, you acknowledge it, but you know you're moving towards something.

00:33:36Marc:Like, I literally stopped it without a plan.

00:33:39Marc:Sure.

00:33:39Marc:Just to see how that felt for a minute.

00:33:41Marc:And there was some uncomfortable laughter, but, you know, eventually I picked it up.

00:33:44Marc:But I just wanted to check in with that space because it is a...

00:33:48Marc:It's kind of a terrifying space.

00:33:50Marc:Yeah.

00:33:50Marc:And you kind of just have to do it.

00:33:53Guest:Like getting in the cold plunger or whatever.

00:33:55Marc:Remind yourself that it's that being present thing.

00:33:59Marc:Yes.

00:33:59Marc:Yeah.

00:33:59Marc:There's nothing more present than failing in front of people.

00:34:03Marc:Yeah.

00:34:03Marc:Absolutely.

00:34:04Marc:Absolutely.

00:34:05Marc:Terrible.

00:34:05Marc:Yeah.

00:34:06Marc:So you do the improv thing.

00:34:07Marc:So this guy, the teacher, is he the guy that planted the seed?

00:34:10Guest:I mean, do you...

00:34:11Guest:For sure.

00:34:12Guest:He was very serious, serious guy.

00:34:14Guest:Yeah.

00:34:14Guest:But he was teaching, you know, 11, 12, 13 year olds.

00:34:17Guest:Yeah.

00:34:18Guest:But he made us feel like it was important, you know.

00:34:23Guest:And I think for a lot of kids, they haven't found what's important to them yet, nor should they at that age necessarily.

00:34:29Marc:What are you, 14?

00:34:31Marc:Yeah, 13, 14.

00:34:32Guest:Yeah.

00:34:33Guest:But it was so important to him, and I thought that was cool.

00:34:38Guest:And I remember he had us do, in seventh grade, we did Macbeth and Twelfth Night back-to-back.

00:34:48Guest:So we each played two parts.

00:34:49Guest:And it was insane to have 12, 13-year-olds do two Shakespeare plays back-to-back.

00:34:55Guest:But that was the kind of guy that he was, and he took it so seriously.

00:34:59Guest:I mean...

00:34:59Guest:He lived very close to the middle school, and that was his life.

00:35:06Guest:I could tell he wasn't sleeping, and he was making edits on Shakespeare, and all this stuff.

00:35:14Guest:He took it very seriously, and he sent me out on...

00:35:18Guest:Like, um, whatever, backstage, you know, you'd find open, open casting calls.

00:35:23Marc:So you were the guy, were you the golden boy at that time?

00:35:26Guest:I mean, you know, he sent out a couple of us.

00:35:29Guest:Yeah.

00:35:30Guest:I remember there was this kid, Phil, who played Macbeth.

00:35:33Guest:I played McDuff.

00:35:34Guest:Yeah.

00:35:34Guest:But I also played Malvolio.

00:35:35Guest:So I had like a lot going on between the two.

00:35:37Guest:Yeah.

00:35:38Guest:Um, but I remember he played Macbeth and I was like, shit, I'm not, you know.

00:35:41Guest:Yeah.

00:35:42Guest:I'm not the guy.

00:35:43Guest:Maybe I'm not the guy.

00:35:44Guest:But, um, but Mr. McEnany, uh, yeah, I think he was like, you know, this is something.

00:35:50Marc:I'm not McBeth.

00:35:51Guest:Exactly.

00:35:52Marc:What's the point?

00:35:52Marc:Exactly.

00:35:53Guest:Exactly.

00:35:54Guest:But I think he saw something going on and, uh, he sent me out on like a, you know, off, off, off Broadway kind of audition and I ended up getting it and really, and doing that in the city.

00:36:06Guest:And then, um, what was that part?

00:36:08Yeah.

00:36:08Guest:It was like original.

00:36:09Guest:It was called The Present.

00:36:11Guest:It wasn't excellent, but it was like a black box.

00:36:15Marc:Where was it?

00:36:16Marc:Do you remember where the theater was?

00:36:18Guest:Yeah, it was on the Upper West Side.

00:36:19Guest:I don't remember exactly, but it was a small, small theater.

00:36:24Guest:I don't know, 80 Cap.

00:36:26Guest:Yeah, was there people coming?

00:36:27Guest:Yeah, there were people coming.

00:36:29Guest:But it was that same thing.

00:36:30Guest:It was enough to get me...

00:36:32Marc:it was that thing again it was like oh wow these people are paying attention but also going into the city for sure like yeah did you go in the city pretty regular anyways maybe not maybe not at that age so much we'd go in on occasion like special occasions and then when i was getting into yeah like did you see i went to high school in the city oh you did let me ask you though before i we spaced it out did he make you understand shakespeare

00:36:58Marc:Because that language, and I'm hung up on Shakespeare in general because I'm one of those guys who are like, I can't get my head around it.

00:37:07Guest:Like, no, right?

00:37:09Guest:Yeah.

00:37:10Guest:you're always going to be trying to piece that stuff together.

00:37:13Guest:You know, I don't know if there's ever fully understanding.

00:37:16Guest:That's all that's like a life's work, you know?

00:37:19Guest:Um, but yeah, there would be certain things like we'd work a monologue over and over again and he'd break that down, but then the rest was all instinct.

00:37:26Guest:But what he did give us, I think was like trust in our own instinct.

00:37:31Guest:Nothing was wrong necessarily.

00:37:33Guest:And I think that's a nice way to approach Shakespeare, you know?

00:37:37Guest:Um, and it also gave us, um,

00:37:39Guest:You know or gave me an idea of real like value and self-worth and yeah, I was like, oh my opinion on this stands for so that's good, you know, yeah It's amazing when you have one teacher that kind of does it totally.

00:37:53Marc:Yeah, because they save lives.

00:37:55Guest:Yeah, I make life.

00:37:56Guest:Absolutely Yeah, I just wasn't good at it.

00:37:58Guest:I mean, you know, and I was young but I was just like, oh, this is you know, this is good Maybe maybe I'm good at this.

00:38:03Guest:Maybe I could maybe I could pursue and he made me feel like that was what's your relationship with Shakespeare now?

00:38:07Guest:Oh, man.

00:38:08Guest:I'd be scared to do it now.

00:38:11Guest:But I'd love to.

00:38:12Guest:Yeah.

00:38:12Guest:I'd love to.

00:38:13Marc:Yeah.

00:38:13Guest:Yeah.

00:38:14Marc:So you succeed enough to want to go to school for it?

00:38:18Guest:Yeah.

00:38:18Guest:I went to a performing arts high school.

00:38:21Guest:To the one?

00:38:22Guest:No.

00:38:23Guest:It was crazy.

00:38:23Guest:So another hit I took.

00:38:25Guest:I didn't play Macbeth.

00:38:26Guest:Yeah.

00:38:27Guest:And then this kind of middle school program was so good that about half of the class from 51 would get into LaGuardia, which is like the game school.

00:38:37Marc:Yeah.

00:38:37Guest:And I did my monologues and I knew they were very good.

00:38:43Guest:I just did.

00:38:43Guest:Yeah.

00:38:44Guest:And about half the class got in and a couple of the kids that got in are still very good friends of mine.

00:38:50Guest:Yeah.

00:38:51Guest:And, uh, and I didn't get in and I got into all the other ones that got into the school called Frank Sinatra professional performing arts school.

00:38:57Guest:There might've been one other.

00:38:58Guest:Yeah.

00:38:59Guest:And, um, I went to, uh, I went to two in one year.

00:39:03Marc:Yeah.

00:39:03Guest:Frank Sinatra.

00:39:04Guest:I dropped out middle of the year, went to PPAS and,

00:39:07Guest:I just didn't like it.

00:39:09Guest:But then I realized that was just a problem with school.

00:39:12Guest:I just didn't like school.

00:39:15Guest:But I went to PPAS, and then I auditioned for LaGuardia again.

00:39:18Guest:And then I got in, and I could have went there sophomore year.

00:39:22Guest:But I felt like I was, like, sticking it to them by staying at PPIS, you know?

00:39:28Guest:Good, good.

00:39:28Guest:Yeah, sure, it's a good attitude.

00:39:30Guest:So I stayed there, and that was a school on 48th, between 8th and 9th, in Hell's Kitchen.

00:39:36Guest:And it was a lot of kids that were already working.

00:39:38Guest:It was a lot of, like, theater kids and stuff like that.

00:39:40Marc:And so what do you just do in all of it?

00:39:42Marc:Song and Dance Man?

00:39:43Guest:Yeah, all of it.

00:39:44Guest:I mean, there was like a musical theater department.

00:39:46Guest:This was like the straight drama program I was in.

00:39:50Guest:But yeah, we would have movement.

00:39:51Guest:We'd have vocal.

00:39:53Guest:We'd have sort of like script breakdown.

00:39:55Guest:We'd have acting technique.

00:39:56Guest:You didn't do any musicals?

00:39:58Guest:I didn't do any musicals.

00:39:59Guest:No.

00:40:00Guest:No.

00:40:01Guest:That was scary to me.

00:40:03Guest:Why?

00:40:03Guest:Singing or dancing?

00:40:04Guest:Singing.

00:40:05Guest:Dancing I had no problem with.

00:40:07Guest:I like dancing.

00:40:07Guest:Yeah.

00:40:08Guest:But the singing was scary to me.

00:40:10Marc:Did you get an opportunity to do any dance?

00:40:13Marc:I started in dance.

00:40:14Marc:Oh.

00:40:14Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:15Marc:Yeah.

00:40:15Guest:I did ballet, tap, and jazz for a long time before I ever found acting with John McEnany.

00:40:19Marc:So when you were a kid?

00:40:20Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:21Marc:You were tapping it out?

00:40:22Marc:Totally.

00:40:22Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:23Guest:Well, that's interesting because you're kind of a tough guy now.

00:40:27Guest:I portray a tough guy, maybe, sometimes, yeah.

00:40:29Marc:But you were like the dancing kid?

00:40:32Guest:Yeah, I mean, I don't think that was how I was known, but yeah, I liked it, you know.

00:40:37Guest:I had a lot of energy as a kid, and like I said, it was very hard for me to focus.

00:40:42Guest:And my parents put me in all, I did sports too, my parents put me, I was wrestling, and I was playing soccer, I was playing baseball, doing all the stuff.

00:40:50Guest:But it just was, they were just like, we got to run this kid out, I think.

00:40:54Guest:Oh, right, right.

00:40:54Guest:And so they added dance to the mix.

00:40:56Guest:Yeah.

00:40:56Guest:And I think dance, again, it was that.

00:41:00Guest:But was it fun?

00:41:01Guest:It was fun.

00:41:02Guest:And it was that, again, it was eyes on you.

00:41:05Guest:Yeah.

00:41:05Guest:And it was also like, you know, I was the only boy, you know.

00:41:09Guest:And I was kind of great as a young man with a bunch of, you know, with a bunch of girls.

00:41:16Guest:And yeah, I liked it.

00:41:18Guest:I liked it a lot.

00:41:19Guest:Do you still dance?

00:41:20Guest:For a while, yeah, sure.

00:41:23Guest:I mean, I go out and dance for a while.

00:41:25Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:25Guest:It's been a long time now.

00:41:27Guest:Rockwell can't stop dancing.

00:41:28Guest:Great dancer.

00:41:29Guest:Great actor.

00:41:30Guest:I love that guy so much, man.

00:41:31Marc:I love that guy.

00:41:32Marc:He's a good guy, yeah.

00:41:33Marc:I think he's my friend.

00:41:34Guest:Yeah?

00:41:34Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:35Marc:I'm cool, jealous.

00:41:36Marc:We'll text occasionally.

00:41:37Marc:Well, we did an animated movie.

00:41:38Marc:We're in the bad guys together.

00:41:39Guest:Of course.

00:41:40Guest:My daughters love that movie.

00:41:41Guest:They do?

00:41:41Guest:Oh, good.

00:41:41Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:43Marc:So Sam, he's a good guy.

00:41:44Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:45Guest:Yeah, but he loves to dance.

00:41:46Guest:Yeah, man, he's a good dancer.

00:41:47Guest:I mean, I remember seeing him in a... In the Fosse movie.

00:41:50Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:51Guest:Well, Fosse, but even way back, like, what was it?

00:41:53Guest:It was like Charlie's Angels or something.

00:41:55Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:56Guest:He does, there's this, like, montage kind of, like, it's like violence and then him dancing around.

00:42:01Guest:And it's, I thought it was so, so cool.

00:42:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:05Marc:So when the first roles start coming...

00:42:10Marc:I guess because you started so young, you're able to kind of develop a comfort on set and stuff to where by the time you get the bigger opportunities, you're kind of seasoned already.

00:42:22Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think some of the best performances I ever see are kids.

00:42:27Marc:Yeah.

00:42:27Guest:Because they just... They don't have that self-conscious thing.

00:42:32Marc:I just watched Close Encounters of the Third Kind the other night.

00:42:35Marc:Because they got a new 70mm print.

00:42:37Marc:Yeah.

00:42:38Marc:And that kid, it's like, how the fuck did they get that kid?

00:42:41Guest:They just don't... They don't have any other choice, but to be honest, you know what I mean?

00:42:45Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:46Guest:It's like they haven't gotten all messy in their head yet.

00:42:48Guest:Yeah.

00:42:49Guest:And then I think...

00:42:50Guest:Some of them are able to protect that for a long time.

00:42:53Guest:Do you ever see this movie Close?

00:42:55Marc:I don't know.

00:42:56Marc:I don't think so.

00:42:57Guest:It's like French or Danish.

00:43:01Guest:But it's just about these young boys.

00:43:03Guest:They're 12 or 13.

00:43:05Guest:they have a really close relationship, very, like, loving, they're best friends, but they get older, and there's some, like, homophobia going on at school, and then they're like, oh, maybe we shouldn't be this close, and they start questioning how, you know, how much they love each other, you know?

00:43:25Guest:And these kids, this movie came out, like, two or three years ago, some of the best, it's the best.

00:43:30Guest:It's really the best.

00:43:31Guest:And I see those performances, and I go, just protect...

00:43:35Guest:That, you know, the film with two years ago, it won a bunch of awards.

00:43:41Guest:The father falls.

00:43:43Guest:Oh, the anatomy of the fall.

00:43:45Marc:The anatomy of the fall.

00:43:46Marc:Yeah.

00:43:46Guest:That kid was like brilliant.

00:43:48Guest:And I'm just like protect that thing.

00:43:50Guest:So anyway, I yeah, I think I was lucky in the start because.

00:43:53Guest:Yes.

00:43:54Guest:I was like, whatever, this is fun.

00:43:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:56Guest:And that's the way to approach this thing.

00:43:57Guest:But the older you get, it becomes, oh, maybe I'm doing this now.

00:44:01Guest:Or this is how I make a living.

00:44:02Guest:Or this is how people are paying attention.

00:44:04Guest:Yeah.

00:44:04Guest:And it's hard to maintain that thing of just, you know.

00:44:07Marc:Well, that's interesting.

00:44:08Marc:So you're saying like a kid can't help but be honest.

00:44:11Marc:And if he knows the task at hand, because a lot of kids, you know, they get self-conscious still and they act like they think they should act.

00:44:17Marc:Sure.

00:44:18Marc:So the ones that.

00:44:18Marc:It's not the case.

00:44:19Marc:Sure.

00:44:19Marc:Right.

00:44:20Marc:So the ones that can get past that.

00:44:22Marc:are really kind of gifted people.

00:44:23Marc:I mean, Brolin was a kid actor.

00:44:25Marc:There's a lot of kid actors.

00:44:26Marc:You have kids, right?

00:44:27Marc:Yeah, yeah, two, yeah.

00:44:28Marc:Daughters?

00:44:29Guest:Two daughters, six and four.

00:44:30Guest:Now, are they actors?

00:44:32Guest:I mean, I don't know.

00:44:34Guest:But no, no, we're not like putting them into a class or trying to get them in front of a camera or anything like that.

00:44:38Marc:But you can still see that, that honesty, I guess.

00:44:40Marc:For sure.

00:44:41Marc:Yeah.

00:44:41Marc:I mean, kids have that, you know, all the time.

00:44:44Guest:I mean, you know, they'll, they'll look right through you and sometimes surprise you just in the way they carry themselves.

00:44:50Guest:Yeah.

00:44:50Guest:And then they bring that, you know, to, to, you know, set.

00:44:54Marc:Yeah.

00:44:54Marc:I don't have any.

00:44:55Marc:I have no kids, so I don't know.

00:44:56Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:57Marc:I find it very touching, though, for some reason.

00:44:59Guest:Well, have you ever been kind of like torn down by a kid, you know what I mean?

00:45:03Guest:Like they can kind of see that thing that you don't like about you a little bit or something?

00:45:07Marc:Sure, sure.

00:45:08Marc:And that's why I'm like sort of like, I think we're done.

00:45:10Marc:Sure.

00:45:10Marc:Sure, sure, sure, sure.

00:45:12Marc:You're my friend's kid, I don't have to put up with this.

00:45:14Marc:Yeah, totally, you walk away.

00:45:17Marc:Keep that to yourself, kid.

00:45:20Guest:But yeah, so I was, yes, I was young, it was fun, and it felt, yeah, it felt like easy, in a nice way, and it felt fun.

00:45:27Marc:How old were you when you had kids?

00:45:29Marc:I mean, you're a kid, you seem young.

00:45:31Guest:I mean, yeah, pretty young, I think, in this day and age, or at least in, like, cities like L.A.

00:45:35Guest:and New York and stuff.

00:45:35Guest:Did you meet your wife, your ex-wife, through acting?

00:45:37Guest:Yeah.

00:45:38Guest:Yeah.

00:45:38Guest:I met her at this school.

00:45:40Guest:I met her when I was 14 at PPAS.

00:45:41Guest:That's crazy.

00:45:42Guest:Yeah.

00:45:43Guest:Yeah.

00:45:43Guest:And you got locked in at 14.

00:45:46Guest:We weren't, we weren't together when we met, but we were, I mean, I was infatuated.

00:45:51Guest:Yeah.

00:45:51Guest:When I met her when I was 14.

00:45:53Guest:It never went away.

00:45:54Guest:Not really.

00:45:55Guest:No, no.

00:45:56Guest:Yeah, it carried.

00:45:57Guest:And like we, you know, we had a couple false starts and we kind of followed each other around.

00:46:03Guest:She transferred to a different school.

00:46:06Guest:I was heartbroken.

00:46:07Guest:We ended up doing a movie together by chance a year after that.

00:46:10Guest:After school, which is the first one where everyone was going to be buddies.

00:46:13Guest:Exactly.

00:46:14Guest:And then we happened to move to L.A.

00:46:16Guest:kind of at the same time.

00:46:18Guest:So we were kind of just like following each other around.

00:46:21Marc:And the infatuation was mutual.

00:46:23Guest:I think most of the time it was coming from me.

00:46:27Guest:But yeah, yeah, of course.

00:46:28Marc:Because when I think back at the girls I was infatuated in high school, I just never had a shot.

00:46:33Marc:For sure.

00:46:34Guest:And I think there were periods where I didn't have a shot, absolutely.

00:46:37Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:39Guest:But yeah, we gave it a real go around when we were like 24.

00:46:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:46:43Guest:25.

00:46:44Guest:And then, yeah, we had Ezzy when we were 27.

00:46:47Marc:In New York?

00:46:49Marc:In L.A.

00:46:50Marc:Yeah.

00:46:50Marc:So you've lived here the whole time?

00:46:51Guest:Yeah, I got a job out of high school.

00:46:56Guest:I got this show, Shameless.

00:46:57Marc:Oh, yeah, that was big.

00:46:57Marc:For a very long time.

00:46:58Marc:For a long time.

00:46:59Marc:Yeah.

00:46:59Marc:With Macy and that crew.

00:47:00Marc:Exactly.

00:47:01Marc:And that was great, right?

00:47:04Marc:It was great, man.

00:47:05Guest:I mean, that was my schooling.

00:47:08Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:09Guest:You know, because we did that for, I was 18 when we did the pilot, and I was 30 when we finished.

00:47:14Guest:That's crazy.

00:47:15Guest:It's crazy.

00:47:16Guest:Yeah.

00:47:16Guest:Never, and it was always exciting?

00:47:19Yeah.

00:47:19Guest:Um, no, I mean, I think that's a long time to do a show.

00:47:24Guest:Yeah, it becomes a job, right?

00:47:25Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:47:26Guest:And there was hard years in there just for me where I was like, I was like, you know, very grateful, obviously.

00:47:32Guest:I mean, it carried me for so long.

00:47:35Guest:It made me feel very secure.

00:47:36Guest:I always had some place to be.

00:47:38Guest:I loved all the people involved.

00:47:40Guest:But yeah, there were certain years certainly where it was difficult for me to find the...

00:47:44Guest:The stuff.

00:47:45Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:45Guest:Or the inspiration.

00:47:46Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:47:47Marc:Yeah.

00:47:47Marc:And Macy's kind of a hardcore actor.

00:47:50Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:51Marc:Did you pick up stuff from him?

00:47:54Guest:Yeah, I mean, he's a serious guy, too.

00:47:57Guest:And I think that's what it was.

00:47:59Guest:I mean, I think that cast was very young.

00:48:02Guest:Right.

00:48:04Guest:But we all cared a lot, and we wanted to show up.

00:48:07Guest:Yeah.

00:48:08Guest:But I think at times, you know, we could spin out of control.

00:48:10Guest:You're talking about... Sure.

00:48:12Guest:ages 10 to 24 kind of when we started and you were 18 and i was 18 and cameron was 16 and emma and ethan were 10 11 so you're living in la living in la on a show you hit 20s yeah you can you know party yep yep yep and i think it was that thing too i was having a little bit of frustration with uh

00:48:34Guest:You know, it's the dream now to have a job in L.A.

00:48:37Guest:Now that I have two daughters and, you know, I have a job that's consistent.

00:48:40Guest:But at the time, my peers and stuff, they were shooting in South Africa.

00:48:44Guest:They were shooting in the U.K.

00:48:45Guest:And they were shooting in Canada and South America.

00:48:48Guest:And I was like, well, I want to I want to travel the world.

00:48:50Guest:Like, what's going on?

00:48:51Guest:I'm shooting at Warner Brothers.

00:48:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:48:53Marc:Now it's like it's a fucking gift.

00:48:55Guest:Yeah, totally.

00:48:56Guest:At that time, I was so frustrated by it.

00:48:59Guest:And now, yeah, if I could just see my girls all the time and not have to bounce around everywhere.

00:49:03Marc:Where do you shoot the bear?

00:49:04Marc:Chicago.

00:49:05Marc:So that's something that, but Chicago's cool.

00:49:08Guest:Chicago's great.

00:49:09Guest:I mean, I love the city of Chicago, you know, um, but, but it's far, you know, I get on a, I get on a plane every weekend.

00:49:15Guest:It's just, it's just calm.

00:49:16Guest:Yeah.

00:49:17Guest:Yeah.

00:49:17Guest:It's just, you just get tired.

00:49:19Guest:Yeah.

00:49:19Marc:Yeah.

00:49:19Marc:It's fucking nuts.

00:49:20Guest:Yeah.

00:49:21Guest:Yeah.

00:49:21Marc:But that, uh, so that show came directly right on, on the heels of shameless.

00:49:26Guest:Yeah.

00:49:27Guest:Yeah.

00:49:27Guest:I got a I did this movie called The Rental that Dave Franco directed.

00:49:34Marc:Oh, I think I saw that.

00:49:36Guest:Yeah.

00:49:37Guest:It was made or it came out during 2020.

00:49:39Guest:Right.

00:49:40Guest:And I'm kind of one of the only movies that was like being released during that.

00:49:42Guest:Yeah.

00:49:43Marc:Yeah.

00:49:43Guest:Yeah.

00:49:44Guest:Oh, right.

00:49:44Guest:Because you, of course, you and and Allison were on glow.

00:49:50Marc:Yeah.

00:49:50Marc:Yes.

00:49:51Guest:Yes.

00:49:51Guest:I did that movie, and Chris Storer, who created The Bear, was a producer on it.

00:49:56Guest:And I didn't talk to Chris very much.

00:49:58Guest:He was kind of in and out while we were shooting it.

00:49:59Guest:We were shooting in Oregon.

00:50:00Guest:And Chris Storer, you know, he comes up to me.

00:50:03Guest:He goes, hey, buddy.

00:50:04Guest:And I'm like, oh, hey, man.

00:50:06Guest:And he says, what do you think you're going to be doing in, like, three years?

00:50:10Guest:And I was like, I don't know.

00:50:12Guest:Like, you know, I think I got a couple more years of Shameless probably.

00:50:16Guest:And then we'll see.

00:50:17Guest:And he goes, all right.

00:50:19Guest:I'm gonna call you in three years, and I was like okay guy You know it's like so Hollywood.

00:50:24Guest:I'm never gonna hear from that guy again.

00:50:26Guest:Yeah, and we're wrapping up season 11 of the show yeah, and I get a Text you know Chris door would like to talk to you this thing and three years later.

00:50:36Guest:Yeah.

00:50:36Guest:Yeah, just about and I talked to him about it, and it was you know Shameless to place in Chicago bear takes place in Chicago There's a certain amount of dysfunction going on in both yeah

00:50:49Guest:And I think I was kind of like, I'd been doing Shameless for 12 years, and I was like, I gotta get out of Chicago, or I gotta do this or do that.

00:50:57Guest:And I was hesitant, even though I love Chris, and the script was so good.

00:51:02Guest:I was hesitant.

00:51:04Guest:But then I had this moment, I think, of just going like this script is so good.

00:51:07Guest:Like, who am I to regardless of the environment of it, regardless of I was like, get out of your own way.

00:51:14Guest:Right.

00:51:14Guest:And just if it's good, it's good.

00:51:15Guest:And follow this.

00:51:16Marc:And so, well, yeah.

00:51:18Marc:And I guess the parts as far as dysfunction goes and carrying the weight of, you know, that particular thing.

00:51:26Marc:disposition yeah you know as a guy who you know i you know i'm a cranky fuck sure and you know i'm a sober fuck but you know the the the weight of it i mean did your life get out of control i guess it did a little yeah at times for sure absolutely several times yeah yeah yeah how like well what was the strain on the dynamic in your family heading into like the bear um

00:51:52Guest:I think I was such an anxious, I mean, I'm still an anxious person, you know, and I think when Shameless ended, I was like a very difficult person to be around.

00:52:05Guest:Because I was scared, you know, I'd had...

00:52:07Guest:11 years of stability.

00:52:10Guest:I had a family outside of my now new family.

00:52:14Guest:And I was walking into the unknown for the first time in a very long time.

00:52:23Guest:I remember doing my last ADR session at Warner Brothers for Shameless.

00:52:28Guest:And I live not far from the studio.

00:52:31Guest:I was driving, leaving Warner Brothers, driving on Mulholland.

00:52:36Guest:And I started having a panic attack.

00:52:38Guest:And I had to pull over on the side of the road because my arms went all kind of numb and tingly.

00:52:46Guest:And my neck started feeling very tight and chest.

00:52:49Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:51Marc:That's that's every morning.

00:52:53Guest:Yeah, right.

00:52:53Guest:Yeah, so you're familiar and I really am dude and I had to pull over and Look, I'm not saying like, you know, my wife has a lot of ex-wife has a lot of space for that kind of thing But I'm just saying I was a very I think I was very difficult to be around because you get you get into your own loop and you know everything's fucked totally and catastrophic thinking Yeah, yeah Did you did you fix it?

00:53:18Guest:I mean, every day I have my tools and I've got the things that I try to do to help it.

00:53:24Guest:But no, I don't know if it's ever going to be fixed.

00:53:25Guest:What the fuck is that, dude?

00:53:27Marc:Like, I'm like... I just like... I started... Like, I'm fucking 61.

00:53:33Marc:Yeah.

00:53:34Marc:And, you know, it just became too much with the world in general.

00:53:38Marc:But just the idea of having that...

00:53:41Marc:That fundamental dread.

00:53:43Marc:Yeah.

00:53:44Marc:Like someone recently, because I talk about it a lot, and I finally started taking a medicine, but I won't take like an SSRI.

00:53:51Marc:I take this other stuff.

00:53:52Marc:Sure.

00:53:53Marc:This busporin.

00:53:54Guest:Yeah.

00:53:54Marc:Which is specifically for this type of anxiety.

00:53:56Guest:I'll look into it.

00:53:57Marc:Yeah.

00:53:58Marc:But the doc said to me, it's so funny because I do a bit on the new special.

00:54:00Marc:He's like, it usually doesn't work.

00:54:02Marc:And I'm like, that sounds perfect.

00:54:05Yeah.

00:54:05Marc:But I just upped the dose and now I'm clammy.

00:54:09Marc:But it's exhausting, man.

00:54:11Marc:Yeah.

00:54:12Marc:But I know that I must have had it my whole life.

00:54:16Marc:Yeah.

00:54:16Marc:And I know that I just had...

00:54:19Marc:What is it?

00:54:20Marc:Twenty six years sober.

00:54:21Marc:Congratulations.

00:54:22Marc:But but like I can't even imagine like that had been why I was fucking doing that.

00:54:27Marc:Right.

00:54:28Marc:You know what I mean?

00:54:28Marc:Like because like I'm not like a party guy.

00:54:30Marc:Yeah.

00:54:31Marc:Yeah.

00:54:31Marc:I'm just doing it to get level.

00:54:33Marc:Yeah.

00:54:33Marc:I can relate.

00:54:34Marc:Yeah.

00:54:35Marc:Yeah.

00:54:36Marc:And but it still happens.

00:54:38Marc:And it's just this immediate thing.

00:54:40Marc:And I noticed it last night.

00:54:42Marc:Like I do it in an instant.

00:54:44Marc:Like me and my buddy are walking across the street, walking across Fairfax to go to a restaurant that I made reservations at.

00:54:49Marc:And there's people out front.

00:54:51Marc:And my first thought is like, oh, fuck.

00:54:52Marc:They're going to give our table or it's going to be a problem.

00:54:55Marc:And I'm two minutes away.

00:54:56Marc:But I got to put myself through the whole, oh, we're fucked.

00:54:59Guest:Yeah.

00:55:00Guest:Yeah.

00:55:00Guest:I'm a nightmare to like travel with, you know, like getting on a plane, especially with my girls or or, you know, it's just like days ahead.

00:55:09Guest:Totally.

00:55:09Guest:I'm panicked about we're going to be late.

00:55:11Guest:Someone's going to mess something up.

00:55:13Guest:Something's going to go wrong.

00:55:14Guest:Yeah.

00:55:15Guest:Yeah.

00:55:15Guest:It's terrible.

00:55:16Marc:Yeah.

00:55:16Marc:But then once you're on the plane, you're like, all right.

00:55:19Marc:No, it's OK.

00:55:19Marc:And meanwhile, everyone's crying.

00:55:20Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:55:23Guest:And you're like, what's the matter?

00:55:24Marc:Everything's good.

00:55:25Marc:It's fine.

00:55:25Marc:You put us through?

00:55:27Guest:No, it's all, I'm still here.

00:55:28Guest:We're still here.

00:55:29Guest:It all has been okay.

00:55:30Guest:And there's no reason to believe that it shouldn't continue to be okay.

00:55:34Marc:I know, but if we didn't do that, then who would we be?

00:55:38Marc:For sure.

00:55:38Marc:Yeah.

00:55:39Marc:So when does the drinking fuck you?

00:55:41Guest:I mean, let's see.

00:55:43Guest:I mean, I think always it was to a degree, you know?

00:55:48Marc:Yeah.

00:55:48Marc:Do you find in retrospect that it was more self-medicating than, oh, let's have a good time?

00:55:53Guest:Yeah.

00:55:53Guest:I wasn't like a, I mean, not to say I didn't have good times while I was drinking and stuff.

00:55:58Guest:Yeah.

00:55:59Guest:But in the end, no, it was very, you know, I was self-medicating.

00:56:04Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:04Guest:It was lonely.

00:56:05Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:56:06Guest:It was, you know.

00:56:06Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:56:07Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:08Marc:Were you like, you know, after you'd shoot, you'd just go fucking sit?

00:56:11Marc:Yeah, sometimes, for sure.

00:56:14Guest:And isolate, you know.

00:56:15Marc:It's the worst, because when you do that, which is my nature as well, and I guess you're the same, like, you know, I've got a couple of friends.

00:56:22Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:24Marc:But, like, ultimately, you're just sort of like—and I do it sober, where I'm just sort of like, I don't want to talk to you.

00:56:30Marc:I'm just going to hang out here.

00:56:30Marc:For sure.

00:56:31Guest:And that just makes it—and there's also shame involved, like, I think the last couple, like, runs I had were, like—

00:56:37Guest:I knew I shouldn't have been doing it.

00:56:39Guest:I knew I was lying.

00:56:40Guest:I knew there was, like, there was shame, and so it was already, like, it was just trouble, man.

00:56:44Marc:But isn't the fucked up thing is, like, and I don't know, I'm just talking now to you as a guy because, like, I'm having these type of realizations where, like, if you look at the arc of my mind...

00:56:56Marc:There's something about the shame and the self judgment that I think is the goal like that.

00:57:04Marc:You got to look at it.

00:57:05Marc:Yeah.

00:57:05Marc:Right.

00:57:05Marc:Like, you know, like, fine.

00:57:06Marc:Drinking.

00:57:07Marc:That's the problem.

00:57:08Marc:Sure.

00:57:08Marc:But the consistent thing with all the behavior is like, I'm a fucking idiot.

00:57:12Marc:Yeah.

00:57:13Marc:I feel guilty or whatever.

00:57:14Guest:Yeah.

00:57:14Guest:Well, that's an interesting thing, too.

00:57:16Guest:I think like you got to be careful with that, though, too, because then you're you get into narcissism.

00:57:21Marc:Yeah.

00:57:21Marc:Or victim.

00:57:22Marc:Yeah.

00:57:22Guest:You're like, well, I'm guilty of everything.

00:57:24Marc:Yeah.

00:57:25Guest:You're not guilty of everything.

00:57:26Guest:You're guilty.

00:57:26Guest:for what you're guilty of.

00:57:28Marc:There's a selfishness.

00:57:29Guest:I think there's periods of shame and guilt that I've been in where I'm like, how could I have done this to the world?

00:57:36Guest:And it's like, oh, what an egomaniac you have to be to think, you know, you've done this to everybody.

00:57:44Marc:Well, that's that old program saying it's like, you're the piece of shit at the center of the universe.

00:57:47Marc:Right, exactly, exactly, exactly.

00:57:50Marc:There's another one I like from the rooms where some guy said once, God doesn't wake up and think he's you.

00:57:55Marc:Yeah.

00:57:56Marc:Yeah, I love that one.

00:57:58Marc:You heard that one?

00:57:58Marc:Yeah.

00:57:59Marc:It's like a great one.

00:58:01Marc:So what did it take for you to finally get over it, get past it?

00:58:05Guest:I think, you know, I'm hesitant talking about this because a lot of it has to do with my ex.

00:58:11Guest:It's not my place to tell that story of it.

00:58:16Guest:But it was just watching...

00:58:19Guest:I was just really close to losing everything.

00:58:23Guest:I was not going to see my kids as much as I wanted to.

00:58:27Guest:Who knows if I would be able to show up for work or my parents or my friends.

00:58:32Guest:I was risking it.

00:58:33Marc:Did somebody reach out to you and make it appealing or was it sort of like you got to do this or you're out?

00:58:40Guest:Um, I think I did that.

00:58:42Guest:I mean, uh, I think, I think I knew, I think I knew, I mean, what it came down to was at the core of it, you know, um, uh, it was my, my kids and showing up for them, you know, I think like, or that's what got me in the door, you know?

00:59:00Guest:And then of course it became a bunch of other things.

00:59:03Guest:But I think that that fear was enough to, to get me to show up.

00:59:08Marc:And you're using the tools and it's fucking working?

00:59:11Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:11Guest:It's fucking good, right?

00:59:12Guest:Two years in May.

00:59:13Marc:It's great.

00:59:14Marc:It's fucking great.

00:59:16Marc:The one thing I like about the recovery racket, and I talk openly, you don't have to, but it's just sort of like this idea that they say the obsession will be lifted.

00:59:26Marc:Yeah.

00:59:27Marc:And it is.

00:59:27Marc:Yeah.

00:59:28Marc:It's fucking crazy.

00:59:29Marc:Yeah.

00:59:29Marc:It's amazing.

00:59:30Marc:It's like, you know, you can be around the shit and it's just like, not even like, I'm not, you know, I'm not even thinking that that's a solution.

00:59:37Marc:Yeah.

00:59:37Marc:What a fucking gift.

00:59:38Guest:Yeah.

00:59:39Guest:And I also did it, you know, I did about a year without the rooms.

00:59:42Guest:Right.

00:59:43Guest:Uh, when my ex was pregnant with our first, cause I was just like, let me, um, this is no good.

00:59:49Guest:Yeah.

00:59:49Guest:You're just going to white knuckle it.

00:59:50Guest:Yeah.

00:59:50Guest:But the obsession remains.

00:59:52Guest:That way.

00:59:53Guest:You know what I mean?

00:59:54Guest:I wasn't drinking, but I was sure as hell thinking about drinking all the time or wondering about it or wondering if I could get away with it at this point or what if I'm on a plane or what if I'm away?

01:00:05Guest:And I wouldn't do it, but it was time consuming for sure.

01:00:08Guest:The obsession was there.

01:00:09Marc:Yeah, but it's better than just the regular dread.

01:00:11Guest:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

01:00:13Guest:It's something specific to dread.

01:00:14Marc:Yeah, I'm not a... Well, back before I fully got sober and, you know, when I was married...

01:00:20Marc:The first time it was like, you know, I'd have to go on the road.

01:00:23Marc:Yeah.

01:00:24Marc:And that would be where it would happen.

01:00:25Marc:Sure.

01:00:26Marc:You'd get away.

01:00:27Marc:Yeah.

01:00:27Marc:A month.

01:00:28Marc:That's how you know you have a problem.

01:00:30Marc:It's like if you have a trip a month away and all you think, oh, man.

01:00:33Marc:Totally.

01:00:34Marc:Totally.

01:00:35Guest:Yeah.

01:00:35Guest:That's going to be great.

01:00:37Guest:And then that was scary, too, because I think that was a similar way I was looking at.

01:00:41Guest:work sometimes sure where i was like i'll be away yeah secret land and uh it's my secret time and i'll still be able to show up i'll be able to do my job sure but i'll also have my nights and i can do what i need to do yeah yeah and um yeah and that was you know yeah and that's just the secrets man yeah yeah yeah well i mean good for you thank you that's fucking a miracle thanks man it's the fucking best sorry let's talk about wrestling yeah yeah okay uh

01:01:07Marc:That movie's great.

01:01:08Marc:Oh, thanks, man.

01:01:09Marc:And you're great in it.

01:01:10Marc:Thank you.

01:01:10Marc:Like, that's like a watch it a couple of times if you can take it movie.

01:01:14Marc:Sean Durkin, man, yeah.

01:01:15Marc:Holy fuck.

01:01:16Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:01:16Marc:Now, like, I have to assume, and that was what?

01:01:19Marc:You were already a season or two into The Bear?

01:01:21Marc:I think that was between our first and second seasons, yeah.

01:01:23Marc:Now, when you see, like, a role like that, you know, because, you know, that story, it's even worse.

01:01:31Marc:It's even worse than the one portrayed, exactly.

01:01:32Marc:And it's fucking nuts.

01:01:33Marc:Yeah.

01:01:34Marc:Now, when you take something like that on, because outside of the work you've done with fucked up guys in the past, there was such a... And I think you see it in the bear a bit, and I don't know Shameless, but you have a full backstory of...

01:01:53Marc:of the reasons why that character is who he is and why that family is who he is.

01:02:00Marc:So I imagine when you read a script like that, you're like, holy fuck, half this work is done for me in terms of who this guy is.

01:02:08Marc:You don't have to put a backstory into place because you're living in it.

01:02:13Marc:And when you read it, what was your first kind of thought?

01:02:17Guest:I think the tragedy of it was overwhelming, you know?

01:02:20Guest:It was almost unbelievable.

01:02:23Guest:Yeah.

01:02:25Guest:But I had known Sean for a long time.

01:02:27Marc:The director?

01:02:27Guest:Yeah.

01:02:28Guest:So Sean produced that same movie after school that I did when I was 16.

01:02:32Guest:So I knew Sean since I was 16.

01:02:34Guest:That's fucking crazy, dude.

01:02:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:37Guest:And so I wanted to, you know, I was just excited because I love Sean.

01:02:42Guest:And then it was like a bit of like, oh boy, because I knew that, you know,

01:02:47Guest:Not just the, whatever, the physical stuff, but I just knew everybody was going to be living in a kind of uncomfortable place and energy for a long time.

01:03:01Guest:That's always like you take a big breath and you...

01:03:04Guest:And you go.

01:03:05Marc:And that's before sober time, too.

01:03:08Marc:That is.

01:03:08Marc:Yeah.

01:03:08Guest:Yeah.

01:03:09Guest:Yeah.

01:03:10Guest:I mean, I was in bad shape.

01:03:11Guest:I was ready.

01:03:12Guest:I was ready to go there.

01:03:14Guest:And but I was I was excited.

01:03:17Guest:You know, I was excited because it was Sean.

01:03:20Guest:I was excited to get ripped.

01:03:22Guest:I was excited to because everybody I don't care.

01:03:25Guest:You know, I think every actor wants to have an opportunity to do a reason, physical, whatever it is.

01:03:30Guest:Doesn't have to be getting.

01:03:32Marc:It has to be sort of like you're going to get me in shape.

01:03:34Marc:Yeah, exactly.

01:03:35Marc:Okay, great.

01:03:36Marc:And the studio's going to pay for it?

01:03:37Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:39Guest:I'll take it.

01:03:39Guest:Yeah.

01:03:40Guest:But yeah, man, I was excited.

01:03:41Guest:It was a great cast.

01:03:42Guest:Like I said, I loved Sean.

01:03:43Guest:I mean, those were the guys.

01:03:45Guest:And Zach fucking showed up.

01:03:46Guest:Zach showed up big time.

01:03:47Guest:Holy fuck.

01:03:48Guest:And he was a sweetheart.

01:03:49Guest:I don't know if you've ever spoken to him or anything.

01:03:51Guest:No, no, no.

01:03:52Guest:He's a very, very sweet, loving guy.

01:03:56Guest:He's great in the movie.

01:03:58Guest:Harris Dickinson's, like, great.

01:04:02Guest:It was great.

01:04:03Guest:Like, Moira Holt.

01:04:04Marc:And you work with Chavo.

01:04:05Marc:I work with Chavo.

01:04:06Marc:Yeah, exactly.

01:04:07Marc:I knew that.

01:04:07Marc:Yeah, I didn't wrestle, but I mean, I knew Chavo.

01:04:11Marc:He's there all the time.

01:04:12Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:12Marc:He's like the guy.

01:04:13Marc:Now, was there anything... Because, you know, look, I went into GLOW as...

01:04:18Marc:Not a wrestling fan.

01:04:19Marc:Yeah.

01:04:19Marc:And now my producer, who's like, you know, just a brilliant guy and like a very sophisticated guy, you know, has been a lifelong wrestling fan.

01:04:28Marc:Yeah.

01:04:28Marc:And like, you know, for some reason, I was like, you're such a smart guy.

01:04:32Marc:Why would you?

01:04:33Marc:But he loves it.

01:04:34Marc:Yeah.

01:04:35Marc:And over time, you know, from doing GLOW and from, you know, being in a relationship with my producer, Brendan, you know, I got a way of appreciation of the sort of K-Fab experience.

01:04:45Marc:Yeah.

01:04:46Marc:And what it really, how it reflects life and why I imagine acting.

01:04:52Marc:It's like, and right now we live in a wrestling culture politically.

01:04:56Marc:Sure.

01:04:57Marc:I mean, it's all fight.

01:04:58Marc:Did you grow an appreciation for it?

01:05:01Guest:Yeah, because I didn't, I similarly, you know, I didn't grow up.

01:05:04Guest:That was my thing.

01:05:04Guest:I had friends who really enjoyed it.

01:05:07Marc:Yeah.

01:05:08Marc:But were you the guy who was sort of like, you know, it's fake.

01:05:11Marc:What do you guys, yeah.

01:05:12Guest:A little bit, I think.

01:05:13Marc:Yeah, me too.

01:05:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:14Guest:I was just like, I don't, you know, I don't, I didn't get it.

01:05:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:05:19Guest:And then you spend some time with Chavo.

01:05:21Marc:Yeah.

01:05:21Guest:And you hear the way he talks about it.

01:05:22Marc:Yeah.

01:05:23Guest:And the storytelling of it.

01:05:24Marc:Yeah.

01:05:25Guest:And you're like, oh, okay.

01:05:26Guest:Okay.

01:05:26Guest:I'm kind of putting this together a little bit.

01:05:28Guest:Yeah.

01:05:28Guest:And then you think of the physicality of it.

01:05:32Guest:You know, these are athletes.

01:05:34Guest:Sure.

01:05:34Guest:You know, and the way they're training.

01:05:36Guest:Of course.

01:05:36Guest:And then I think during that time, there was also something very like punk about it.

01:05:40Marc:Sure.

01:05:40Guest:Where they were really putting their bodies on the line in a way.

01:05:44Guest:Yeah.

01:05:44Guest:That was like violent and interesting.

01:05:46Guest:Yeah.

01:05:47Marc:And punk because it's fucking regional.

01:05:49Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:50Marc:It's like, you know, there are these guys with whole wrestling communities, you know, doing these veterans halls.

01:05:55Marc:Yes.

01:05:56Marc:It's so fucking punk rock in a way.

01:05:58Guest:It was like grassroots in this.

01:05:59Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:01Guest:And then I think the big change was, for me, yeah, when I was performing it, which is like...

01:06:09Guest:I thought I was, I'm gonna get all the moves, you know, or I'm gonna get strong enough, or I'm gonna be able to jump off this and flip over that, and that was my focus.

01:06:16Guest:Yeah.

01:06:17Guest:And I was pretty proud of myself for how I was showing up.

01:06:19Guest:Yeah.

01:06:19Guest:And Chavo was like, you're not, you're not paying attention to the story.

01:06:23Marc:You're not performing.

01:06:24Guest:You're not performing.

01:06:25Guest:Yeah.

01:06:25Guest:You're just going through the thing.

01:06:27Guest:And he was like, you look...

01:06:28Guest:Good.

01:06:28Guest:Like you're doing all the things and it looks right.

01:06:30Guest:Yeah.

01:06:31Guest:But it's the moments in between where you're capturing the audience.

01:06:34Guest:You're capturing the attention.

01:06:36Guest:You're telling the story of the, you know, the baby face and all that stuff.

01:06:41Guest:And and you're building the suspense in the moments in between.

01:06:45Guest:If you're just running around and you're whacking each other and you're flipping around and you're going from move to move.

01:06:50Guest:It's almost like it's too fast.

01:06:52Guest:You know, they tell you that when you're doing like stunt work in a movie.

01:06:55Guest:Yeah.

01:06:55Guest:I remember in the rental, I had to do this thing where I'm, like, wailing on this guy.

01:06:58Guest:And I just tried to, like, hit him as fast as I could and as hard as I could.

01:07:01Guest:And they were like, we're not – it's not really showing on camera.

01:07:04Guest:It's just weird.

01:07:05Guest:Can you slow it down?

01:07:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:07Guest:And I was like, I don't want to because I'm feeling the thing.

01:07:09Guest:I want to do the thing.

01:07:10Guest:And they were just like, slow it down.

01:07:11Guest:Yeah, act.

01:07:12Guest:And I think, yeah, exactly.

01:07:13Guest:And I think that it's a similar thing.

01:07:16Guest:You got to slow it down so people can get connected.

01:07:18Marc:But I have to assume, like, that had some –

01:07:21Marc:informative impact on just acting in general.

01:07:26Marc:Yeah, for sure.

01:07:27Marc:I mean, because the job is, because you're in a movie, it's almost like a movie within a movie or a play within a movie.

01:07:35Marc:Yeah.

01:07:36Marc:The context of the theater of wrestling, to have those tricks where you're kind of able to physically and through focus build suspense around these movements, that's like a fucking whole different level of acting.

01:07:48Marc:Yeah.

01:07:48Guest:Yeah, it's what I imagine, like, I don't know, like going to, like, clown school or mime or whatever that is.

01:07:56Guest:You're learning to tell a story physically.

01:08:00Guest:Yeah.

01:08:00Guest:You know?

01:08:01Guest:Yeah.

01:08:02Marc:That's great.

01:08:03Guest:And, of course, there's value in that for any actor.

01:08:05Marc:It's funny.

01:08:06Marc:You're going to have to list Chavo as one of your great acting teachers.

01:08:08Marc:There you go.

01:08:09Guest:He's on the list.

01:08:10Guest:McEnany, Chavo, Carrera.

01:08:12Guest:Yeah.

01:08:13Marc:So how did you handle, like, how are you handling in general this...

01:08:17Marc:You got pretty big pretty quick.

01:08:19Guest:Yeah.

01:08:19Guest:I mean, you know, I think I was really lucky because it didn't feel like that for a long time.

01:08:25Guest:You know, I mean, I was doing Shameless for a long time.

01:08:27Guest:I did my first movie when I was 15.

01:08:30Marc:So you're kind of ready for it.

01:08:32Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I feel lucky and glad that it was age 30 where I kind of hit it rather than whatever, 19 or 20.

01:08:42Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:08:45Guest:And yeah, I think I just have a lot of, I had a lot of time and a lot of trying and, you know.

01:08:52Marc:How's the attention though?

01:08:53Marc:Does it fuck with you?

01:08:55Marc:I mean, you're kind of in that zone of it's a little tricky to walk down the street.

01:08:59Guest:I think there was a couple periods.

01:09:01Guest:I think when the divorce stuff was going on and I was dating somebody who was far more famous than me at that kind of time after we were getting divorced.

01:09:11Guest:And yeah, I got a little bit of the, you know, they were kind of at my house and people were following me around.

01:09:20Guest:How'd you handle that?

01:09:22Guest:You know, I got angry a couple times.

01:09:24Guest:Yeah.

01:09:25Guest:And that doesn't really do much for you.

01:09:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:29Guest:And I think... That's just giving them meat.

01:09:31Guest:Yeah.

01:09:32Guest:And I think, you know, my publicist who I've been with for a long time is just kind of like...

01:09:38Guest:Just be boring.

01:09:40Guest:And I am pretty boring, you know, really.

01:09:42Guest:And she was just like, you just got to wait.

01:09:45Guest:And yeah, like when I'm in L.A., my life is pretty simple.

01:09:49Guest:You know, I like to go out to dinner every once in a while.

01:09:51Guest:Well, it's weird here because like there is...

01:09:54Marc:It's so common here.

01:09:56Marc:Yeah.

01:09:56Marc:And that, you know, the business has always been here.

01:09:59Marc:So most people are relatively respectful.

01:10:01Guest:Yeah.

01:10:02Guest:Yeah.

01:10:02Marc:And if not resentful.

01:10:04Guest:Yeah.

01:10:05Guest:Sure.

01:10:06Guest:Sure.

01:10:07Guest:Sure.

01:10:07Guest:Yeah.

01:10:09Guest:Yeah.

01:10:10Guest:But I don't know.

01:10:11Guest:I.

01:10:12Guest:To be honest, I'm pretty unbothered.

01:10:16Marc:Oh, good.

01:10:16Marc:Well, that's good.

01:10:17Marc:So what happens now?

01:10:19Marc:So you just did, what, the third season of The Bear?

01:10:22Guest:The fourth season just came out.

01:10:23Guest:Right.

01:10:24Guest:Are you going back?

01:10:24Guest:We're going to go back.

01:10:26Guest:We're going to do another one in January.

01:10:28Guest:Yeah.

01:10:29Guest:And, yeah, I just did this thing with Austin I'd mentioned.

01:10:35Guest:What is that?

01:10:36Guest:It's this thing called Enemies.

01:10:37Guest:It's very, like, sort of, like... Is it out?

01:10:40Guest:No, no, no.

01:10:40Guest:We just filmed it a couple months ago.

01:10:43Guest:And it's fun.

01:10:44Guest:It's very, like, Michael Mann.

01:10:45Guest:Oh, good, yeah.

01:10:47Guest:He did it?

01:10:48Guest:No, no, no.

01:10:48Guest:But he was, like, a big, you know... Influence.

01:10:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:51Guest:And yeah, now I'm hanging around.

01:10:54Guest:I went on a big vacation right after I finished that, which was lovely.

01:10:59Guest:And took my kids, rented a house on the East Coast for the month of July.

01:11:04Guest:Like on the shore?

01:11:05Guest:Yeah, this little town called Bellport Village on Long Island.

01:11:09Marc:Oh, in Long Island.

01:11:10Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:11Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:11:11Marc:And you just hung out?

01:11:12Marc:Yeah, just hung out.

01:11:13Guest:I had friends out there.

01:11:14Guest:My folks are still in Brooklyn.

01:11:15Guest:They came out.

01:11:16Guest:My sister, her boyfriend, the girls.

01:11:17Marc:Oh, that's great.

01:11:18Guest:Yeah, it was great.

01:11:19Guest:Oh, that's great.

01:11:19Guest:And now we're, you know, getting ready to get the Bruce movie out and go back to work, yeah.

01:11:26Marc:So the Bruce movie...

01:11:28Marc:How'd you feel about it?

01:11:30Marc:It was very hard.

01:11:32Marc:Well, yeah, especially because he's sitting there the whole time.

01:11:35Marc:But in terms of playing Bruce and doing your own singing, from what I remember on set, that there were times where Bruce couldn't tell the difference.

01:11:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:11:45Guest:I mean, you know, I had not had a lot of experience or any experience singing, playing guitar, any of it.

01:11:52Guest:And so that was...

01:11:55Guest:daunting to say the least in the beginning and i didn't have i mean i had a lot of time but i didn't have as much time as i would have liked you never do you know yeah but i had about six months to kind of what's fortunate with those songs the guitar playing is not like exactly it's not a lot of yeah the chords are pretty simple there's not many of them and a lot of the songs are in the same yeah um but um but the singing was a you know a gamble and um

01:12:18Marc:So what did you do?

01:12:19Marc:Just kind of like figure out at first just to mimic it?

01:12:22Marc:Like do you listen to it?

01:12:24Marc:Yeah.

01:12:24Marc:And then kind of record yourself?

01:12:26Guest:Yeah.

01:12:26Guest:I mean, I worked with this guy, Eric Vitro, who's kind of like the guy.

01:12:30Guest:He helped Austin with the Elvis movie.

01:12:34Guest:He helped Timothee Chalamet with the Dylan movie.

01:12:37Guest:He's kind of the go-to.

01:12:38Guest:And he works with a lot of amazing vocalists and real singers and performers.

01:12:44Guest:But I got together with him.

01:12:46Guest:just to see what I can do, or see where we could get, at least.

01:12:52Guest:And that's what you start with.

01:12:54Guest:You're just like, can I sing?

01:12:56Guest:Can I sing in key?

01:12:57Guest:Do I have a good ear?

01:12:58Guest:Is all this stuff working?

01:13:00Guest:And then, you know, you try to find a little bit of that rasp, and then you kind of try to get the... You start messing around with nasal... That Jersey phrasing.

01:13:11Guest:Yeah, and that phrasing, I mean...

01:13:14Guest:the phrasing on that record's tough.

01:13:16Guest:Like there's some run on, like it's like, you know, um, and, uh, and yeah.

01:13:23Guest:So I, I started with kind of all that.

01:13:26Guest:And then I really have to give Eric credit cause he was there to kind of, or I thought he was there.

01:13:31Guest:Um,

01:13:32Guest:To be like, you know, this is how you sing a song, this is how you make it sound good.

01:13:36Guest:But he would catch me not feeling connected to it.

01:13:40Guest:And doing what as an actor I should have just been doing naturally.

01:13:44Guest:Which is like, what are you talking about?

01:13:46Guest:What's going on?

01:13:47Guest:Have you written this down a whole bunch?

01:13:50Guest:just think, think about, is this, you know, who's Bruce playing or, or, you know, which moment in Bruce's life is this, you know, all this stuff.

01:13:59Guest:It should have been simple, but I was so worked up with, how does this sound?

01:14:02Guest:Being self-conscious about this.

01:14:03Guest:And sounding like Bruce.

01:14:04Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:05Guest:Um, so that was like a break, a breakthrough.

01:14:07Guest:Huh.

01:14:08Guest:And then, you know, we pre-recorded and, and so that gave me the ability to, like a lot of vocalists, you know, you sing the song for an afternoon.

01:14:17Guest:Yeah.

01:14:18Guest:And they go ahead and they,

01:14:20Guest:put together your greatest hits.

01:14:22Marc:You know what I mean?

01:14:24Marc:But it's interesting because it's like the same advice Chavo gave you.

01:14:27Marc:Yeah, totally.

01:14:28Marc:How do you tell a story in this format that you are not familiar with?

01:14:31Guest:Totally.

01:14:32Guest:And I think I'm all worked up in, well, I'm not familiar with this.

01:14:36Guest:And I got to, let me get this move right.

01:14:38Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:39Guest:Am I singing in key?

01:14:43Guest:But at the end of the day, I think, yeah, if it's honest, whether it sounds just like or looks just like the guy, people will believe it and they'll follow you.

01:14:52Guest:And I remember Bruce was great the first time he heard one of my prerecords because he was like...

01:15:00Guest:You know, you sound like me, but you're singing the song, you know, and you're making the song your own.

01:15:08Guest:You've got your connection with the song.

01:15:11Guest:And I think once he kind of gave me that permission, not just with the music, but in a sense with the entirety of the film, I feel like that released me from a little bit of the anxiety and dread.

01:15:23Guest:And he did that early on?

01:15:24Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:25Marc:Now, okay, so between The Bear and Shameless and the wrestling movie and this thing, are you ready to come out of the tunnel of, you know, kind of like existential darkness?

01:15:37Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:39Guest:I mean, it's lonely men is really what it is.

01:15:42Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:44Guest:And making a movie, making a TV show is already kind of a lonely existence.

01:15:50Guest:So you could use that.

01:15:51Guest:So yeah, it's right there for me.

01:15:55Guest:But yeah, I'm ready to take it easy on myself.

01:15:57Marc:Well, what do you want to do?

01:15:58Marc:Is the enemies, is that a comedy?

01:16:00Guest:No.

01:16:02Marc:No, is that more lonely men?

01:16:04Guest:That's two very lonely men.

01:16:06Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:07Marc:So what do you want to do?

01:16:10Guest:I don't know, you know, I mean, my rule has always been just try to work with people that you admire and you feel like you could learn something from.

01:16:19Guest:That's my real only, like, you know, thing.

01:16:24Guest:But yeah, now I'm in a very privileged position where, you know, I'm looking at a couple scripts and there's someone I admire constantly.

01:16:32Marc:to do with any one of those things yeah and so so yeah i i think you know there's certainly a searching for something sure well i mean i think you've got what it you know what it takes and you could just sort of like bradley cooper seems to you know bounce around from format to format for sure you you know like it it's got to be is do you feel like there's a risk of being typecast or no

01:16:57Guest:I don't subscribe to that.

01:16:58Guest:I mean, I think maybe it might have been more of a thing in generations before.

01:17:06Guest:But I think a lot of actors, you know, they can make sort of careers and interesting careers.

01:17:13Guest:Not doing the same thing.

01:17:14Marc:Sure, yeah.

01:17:15Guest:But living in a kind of a space, you know what I mean?

01:17:20Guest:Yeah.

01:17:21Guest:And I don't discredit those performers at all.

01:17:24Guest:Sure, sure.

01:17:26Guest:Most of them do take the risk, so.

01:17:27Marc:Yeah, at a point, for sure, of course.

01:17:29Marc:Do little things here and there.

01:17:30Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:32Guest:Anything funny in the new scripts?

01:17:34Guest:Anything funny in the new scripts?

01:17:36Yeah.

01:17:36Guest:Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at something I might do at the end of this year, even.

01:17:42Guest:And yeah, it's quick.

01:17:44Guest:It's funny.

01:17:45Guest:There's a lot of wit.

01:17:47Guest:I wouldn't call it, you know.

01:17:48Guest:A comedy.

01:17:48Guest:It's not a comedy, but it's certainly not, you know.

01:17:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:53Guest:It's not a man on the verge, you know what I mean?

01:17:56Guest:Well, good, because I think you need a break creatively.

01:17:59Guest:I appreciate that, yeah.

01:18:00Marc:Great talking to you, man.

01:18:01Guest:So good talking to you.

01:18:02Marc:I appreciate it, man.

01:18:02Marc:Yeah, me too.

01:18:08Marc:There you go.

01:18:10Marc:That was great.

01:18:11Marc:He's a good guy.

01:18:12Marc:Again, Deliver Me From Nowhere premieres at the Telluride Film Festival this weekend.

01:18:16Marc:It opens in theaters on October 24th.

01:18:19Marc:Jeremy is nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy for his role in The Bear.

01:18:25Marc:And that's a great show as well.

01:18:27Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.

01:18:31Marc:Hey, people, on Thursday, I talked to Oscar winner Regina King, who's in the new Darren Aronofsky movie, Caught Stealing.

01:18:38Marc:It's rare that you see a movie where, you know, violence isn't necessarily gratuitous.

01:18:44Marc:It's just detached from character, just something you expect, because all the violence in it is pretty violent.

01:18:51Marc:That's what I keep hearing from people.

01:18:53Marc:It's pretty violent.

01:18:55Marc:But I think the reason people respond to that is because it's all very character driven.

01:19:00Marc:And the frame of the movie is fairly real.

01:19:03Marc:He went out of his way because I lived in that area where he shot for years.

01:19:07Marc:Oh, wow.

01:19:08Marc:I lived right on Second Street between A and B. So like walking by Benny's Burritos and Kim's video, I'm like, because I knew he had rebuilt it.

01:19:17Marc:But I literally lived on that block for like a couple of years.

01:19:21Marc:And he kind of made it pretty gritty and it seemed like the right time.

01:19:26Marc:And there was something...

01:19:30Marc:I tell you, once, you know, Liev and Vincent as the Hasidic Jews, it's so hard not to see guys doing those characters and wait for laughs.

01:19:42Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:44Marc:But it's the opposite.

01:19:45Marc:Yeah.

01:19:45Marc:But there's that one scene with Carole Kane.

01:19:47Marc:I guess you haven't seen it yet.

01:19:48Guest:I haven't seen it yet, I know.

01:19:50Guest:I can't wait because the feedback has been really great.

01:19:54Guest:And honestly, when the script came my way,

01:20:00Guest:First, I said absolutely I want to read it when I learned it was Darren.

01:20:06Guest:I mean, there's like every actor, you have your list of directors, filmmakers you want to work with.

01:20:13Guest:And I would say everybody, Darren is in their 10.

01:20:19Guest:I feel like it.

01:20:20Guest:You just respect just his storytelling abilities so much.

01:20:26Guest:And so then I read the script and I'm like...

01:20:29Guest:Okay, so Darren Aronofsky's doing this story.

01:20:34Guest:Oh, all right.

01:20:35Guest:Yeah.

01:20:36Guest:Because I'm all about, don't be put in a box.

01:20:40Guest:Yeah.

01:20:40Guest:You know, and it's very clear that, you know, you may not call this a comedy, but if Darren Aronofsky's going to do a comedy, this is what the comedy is going to be like.

01:20:50Marc:That's this Thursday's WTF episode with Regina King.

01:20:55Marc:And a reminder before we go this podcast...

01:20:57Marc:is hosted by Acast.

01:21:02Marc:Here's a bit of guitar that I got through Peter Green, and he got it through a guy I think named Duster Bennett, is it?

01:21:11Marc:Yes.

01:21:12Marc:Yes, I believe so.

01:21:13Marc:I'll be playing this on the 10th at Largo with singing and more guitars.

01:21:27.

01:21:27Guest:.

01:21:51guitar solo

01:22:14Guest:guitar solo

01:22:42.

01:22:43Guest:.

01:23:10Bye.

01:23:20Guest:Thank you.

01:23:44Marc:Boomer lives.

01:23:57Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.

01:23:58Marc:Cat angels everywhere.