Episode 1665 - Awkwafina

Episode 1665 • Released July 31, 2025 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:11Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck, buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck, Nicks?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.

00:00:18Marc:Coming in for landing, people.

00:00:20Marc:Couple months left.

00:00:21Marc:I hope everybody's alright.

00:00:23Marc:How are you?

00:00:23Marc:Are you alright?

00:00:25Marc:Are you alright?

00:00:26Marc:Hello?

00:00:27Marc:Hello?

00:00:28Marc:You?

00:00:30Marc:You look all right.

00:00:32Marc:You'll get through it.

00:00:34Marc:I am personally not at home.

00:00:37Marc:I imagine some of you can hear that.

00:00:39Marc:Some of you are more sensitive to the sound quality of the show.

00:00:41Marc:Probably know that I'm not home by now, but no longer complain about it.

00:00:47Marc:Why?

00:00:47Marc:Why bother?

00:00:50Marc:But I am in New York.

00:00:51Marc:I've been here for a few days.

00:00:53Marc:This is sort of the end of this massive press journey for both The Bad Guys 2, which opens this Friday, tomorrow.

00:01:02Marc:Also for Panicked, my HBO special, which drops tomorrow.

00:01:08Marc:And a lot of attention on the closing up of the podcast and on these two projects.

00:01:14Marc:And it's just been a massive...

00:01:16Marc:press press just a full press of press does that make sense am i using the sporting analogy right full court press a press is that better look i'm a team player i'll get out there i'll i'll shill for the movie it's a good movie it's an exciting movie it's great animation it's got a great pace it's got a fun story it's got fun characters but there is sort of a a a ceiling uh

00:01:42Marc:to how much you can make press about an animated film interesting, as far as I can tell.

00:01:49Marc:I mean, as an actor, and I'm up there with Danielle Brooks and Rockwell and Natasha, Maria, Craig Robinson, Anthony Ramos.

00:01:58Marc:And, you know, you're doing a lot of these.

00:02:00Marc:You'll sit in a room and you'll do 20 of them.

00:02:03Marc:You have five minute hits, 10 minute hits with journalists from all different outlets.

00:02:08Marc:And I'm not saying they're not doing their job and we're doing our job.

00:02:11Marc:But I mean, after you field the question, like if you weren't a snake.

00:02:15Marc:What animal would you be and why?

00:02:16Marc:And as a snake, you know, what are you thinking?

00:02:20Marc:How do you get into character for a snake?

00:02:24Marc:And if you watch Seth Meyers from last night, I addressed that.

00:02:29Marc:And I said, well, basically, this is my voice as me.

00:02:33Marc:And now I'm the snake.

00:02:34Marc:I'm doing it.

00:02:36Marc:It all comes right there.

00:02:38Marc:So that gets a little exhausting, but I think people had fun with it.

00:02:42Marc:And I don't even know where half of them are seen.

00:02:43Marc:And you do some of these press things.

00:02:45Marc:It's like, where is this going to be?

00:02:46Marc:And they're like, it's on a thing and a thing and a place.

00:02:49Marc:And I'm like, oh, okay.

00:02:50Marc:Well, that's good.

00:02:51Marc:Today, Awkwafina is here.

00:02:54Marc:She's an interesting character and very funny and has had kind of an interesting way of kind of moving through show business.

00:03:00Marc:She's in the bad guys movies with me.

00:03:02Marc:She plays the spider.

00:03:03Marc:What's the name?

00:03:04Marc:She plays Webs.

00:03:06Marc:And I think the first time I really met her was doing press and promotional stuff.

00:03:11Marc:And she's also an Emmy winner and a Golden Globe Award winner.

00:03:15Marc:But she won that Golden Globe for a very serious movie, The Farewell.

00:03:19Marc:And, you know, she kind of reached deep, and I don't think she's had a lot of acting training.

00:03:25Marc:So anyway, she's here.

00:03:26Marc:Good conversation.

00:03:27Marc:Tonight will be at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City in conversation with Jim Gaffigan after a screening of my HBO special.

00:03:34Marc:Marc Maron panicked.

00:03:36Marc:I don't know if there's tickets left, but you can check.

00:03:38Marc:WTFpod.com slash tour for tickets.

00:03:41Marc:And as I mentioned earlier, the special premieres on HBO this Friday.

00:03:46Marc:and on HBO Max as well, and so does the bad guy.

00:03:50Marc:So it's going to be, you know, what are you going to go see?

00:03:52Marc:It's up to you.

00:03:54Marc:Which mark do you want to engage with?

00:03:56Marc:But I think what's at the front of my mind, and I think that some of you in your emails have kind of sensed it.

00:04:05Marc:It's very interesting about the end of the show because almost everybody is like, you know, sorry, it's happening.

00:04:13Marc:I'm sad to see you go, but I get it.

00:04:15Marc:And a lot of you have been on this weird journey with me and my life through all these episodes, through all these years, and that you sense that I've arrived at a different place and it's not a bad place, no matter how much I engage with or experience the anxiety that I've been experiencing over the last couple of weeks for any number of reasons.

00:04:35Marc:But I think you have actually seen the evolution of me kind of landing in myself and

00:04:42Marc:in a new way.

00:04:43Marc:And I've noticed it myself.

00:04:45Marc:I want you to know that I do take note.

00:04:49Marc:I am writing things down about ways that I am kind of, it's not even gratitude.

00:04:55Marc:It's just like, hey, you did a good job on that.

00:04:57Marc:Or, hey, you know what?

00:04:58Marc:You didn't worry about your pants.

00:05:00Marc:Those boots are fine.

00:05:01Marc:Like there's a self-talk involved, but mostly it happens afterwards where I do something and I'm like, holy shit, I'm pretty good at this.

00:05:09Marc:And that's kind of new.

00:05:11Marc:I mean, this is going to sound a little crazy.

00:05:14Marc:I told you about that.

00:05:16Marc:the singing I did the other night at Largo of the Taylor Swift song.

00:05:21Marc:And I don't know if this seems weird or you're going to, you know, think I'm a dick for it, but I think I've watched that clip upwards of 20 or 30 times.

00:05:29Marc:I just sit and watch me singing that song and I'm thinking like, dude, you know, you did all right.

00:05:35Marc:And I just keep watching it.

00:05:37Marc:Is that weird?

00:05:37Marc:Is that narcissistic?

00:05:39Marc:Or is it me just going, hey, if you're not hearing it from other people,

00:05:43Marc:Hear it from yourself.

00:05:44Marc:You know, when you talk to somebody else, it's like, oh, I love that thing.

00:05:47Marc:You know, I watched it like 20 times.

00:05:49Marc:I'm like, yeah, me too.

00:05:50Marc:And it's me.

00:05:51Marc:So I don't think that's a bad thing, is it?

00:05:54Marc:But one of the ways I notice it the most is in these, you know, these panels or talk shows, sometimes on other people's podcasts.

00:06:03Marc:There is a sense of the real thing that drove me for a lot of years was just I really wanted to be good.

00:06:15Marc:I wanted people to laugh at what I thought was funny, but I was driven by a certain fear, by a certain panic.

00:06:21Marc:There was a lot riding on it.

00:06:22Marc:I was always one of these people that...

00:06:24Marc:I could only go one way and that was all in.

00:06:27Marc:And if that didn't work, I'd be like, oh, my God, this means I'm terrible or I don't know what I'm doing or I suck or maybe people just don't get me or whatever.

00:06:37Marc:But what I realize now, because I just did Seth Meyers last night.

00:06:42Marc:is that I was really full of panic.

00:06:46Marc:At my core, I wasn't being a character when I was all worked up.

00:06:50Marc:I was all worked up.

00:06:52Marc:I wasn't being a character when I was angry about something.

00:06:54Marc:I wasn't being a character where I was being cocky about a particular issue or a person that I was talking about comedically.

00:07:04Marc:I was really feeling all those things and really...

00:07:08Marc:Those things as a subtext, not an enjoyable listen, not necessarily an enjoyable watch.

00:07:14Marc:If you sense that somebody is really, I wouldn't say desperate, but trying really hard and also being a bit dark and a bit weird, it's not going to land great.

00:07:26Marc:And now I'm still that guy, but I don't give as much of a fuck.

00:07:32Marc:And I am pretty comfortable, very comfortable in my abilities.

00:07:38Marc:And I think I'm just sort of realizing that and living in it.

00:07:42Marc:And it's kind of good.

00:07:43Marc:And I don't know what to do with those feelings.

00:07:45Marc:You know, like I talked to you about that panel.

00:07:49Marc:You know, and like how I landed some pretty funny jokes and they were very intentional.

00:07:54Marc:And I thought about them in the moment and I decided to execute them and they landed and it was like, I am pretty good at this.

00:08:00Marc:But I don't know if you can appreciate that.

00:08:03Marc:I've been doing this 40 years.

00:08:05Marc:And, you know, the ratio in terms of how many times I said, well, that sucked or I suck or this sucked versus how many times I said that was good.

00:08:14Marc:I did good and whatever.

00:08:16Marc:It's very small on the I did good side.

00:08:20Marc:But I did Seth last night.

00:08:23Marc:And, you know, I've been in that studio my entire professional life.

00:08:28Marc:I used to do Conan.

00:08:30Marc:I started doing Conan O'Brien probably in 1996.

00:08:33Marc:I think it was probably my first network standup appearance was on Conan.

00:08:39Marc:And I did two of those.

00:08:41Marc:And then I did panel for the next, you know, 20 years.

00:08:45Yeah.

00:08:45Marc:And every time, whatever chemistry Conan and I had that evolved, which was like, here comes Mark.

00:08:51Marc:He's worked up about something.

00:08:52Marc:He's going to alienate the audience or whatever.

00:08:54Marc:I didn't love that, but it gave him a point of view on it.

00:08:57Marc:But I didn't intend to do that ever.

00:09:00Marc:I really thought I'd come out and kill.

00:09:03Marc:And then like, I wouldn't.

00:09:05Marc:And then he'd be like, here we go.

00:09:06Marc:You did it again.

00:09:07Marc:You dug a hole.

00:09:07Marc:And I'm like, instead of saying, you know, I didn't want to, I really thought that would like kill me.

00:09:14Marc:I would go like, I know, I'm that guy.

00:09:17Marc:I'm the dig a hole guy.

00:09:20Marc:But going back for Seth and being in that building, you know, I always liked going to Conan.

00:09:24Marc:I liked being part of that part of show business and being, you know, Pamela Anderson is on the show with me.

00:09:30Marc:And I got to like say hi to her and tell her she did a great job in the last show girl.

00:09:34Marc:And I never met her before.

00:09:36Marc:And, you know, I liked the whole process of gearing up to do a late night shot.

00:09:41Marc:But I didn't have...

00:09:44Marc:Something happened on the special, which you can watch on Friday, panicked on HBO and HBO Max, where it was really the first time where I was fully, not so much, it wasn't about being in control, but I was okay with myself and grounded.

00:09:59Marc:I'd done all the work leading up to it, and I just felt really comfortable and excited to do it and ready to do it.

00:10:07Marc:And that's a rare thing for me, you know, historically.

00:10:11Marc:But I did feel it.

00:10:12Marc:I felt the shift.

00:10:13Marc:I don't know if it's getting older or giving less fucks or just, you know, finally realizing, you know, that I put my whole life into this particular form, into this craft.

00:10:24Marc:And I kind of felt it with From Bleak to Dark a bit.

00:10:29Marc:But like, you know, like I'm good at this and I do it exactly the way I want to do it.

00:10:35Marc:But that confidence is kind of, like, spreading inside me, which is not a bad thing.

00:10:41Marc:It's okay when confidence spreads, as long as you don't get too cocky.

00:10:43Marc:I try not to get cocky, and I just keep it inside, you know, in terms of, like, you don't want to be... Because, like, there is part of me, you know, when you fail, you kind of look for some sort of reassurance, you know, from friends or whatever.

00:10:56Marc:Like, that was pretty good, right?

00:10:58Marc:And they're like, yeah, that was pretty good.

00:10:59Marc:And you still know.

00:11:01Marc:It's almost like reaffirming the fact that it did suck as bad as...

00:11:04Marc:as you thought it did, but they're trying to be nice.

00:11:06Marc:But when I feel like I did good, I do the same thing.

00:11:09Marc:I'm like, that was fucking great, right?

00:11:11Marc:And there's nothing more annoying than that.

00:11:13Marc:Some guy just can't shut up about how good it was, so I'm keeping that inside.

00:11:17Marc:But I do Seth, and just going out there and knowing him, and he's a particularly nice guy, and he is very good at his job right now, and he's a very good writer, and he knows comedy.

00:11:29Marc:But I just went out there and we had a loose kind of framework of it.

00:11:33Marc:But my freedom of mind to just be funny without overthinking it is new to me.

00:11:39Marc:And it's happening now.

00:11:42Marc:And I'm almost 62 years old that it's all sort of coming together for me.

00:11:47Marc:You know, not professionally, it is that as well, but for me as a performer and as a guy who does a thing that he's been doing his whole life, I finally feel kind of locked in.

00:11:58Marc:That's a long haul, man.

00:12:00Marc:That's like 40 years of development to arrive here.

00:12:05Marc:Look, not complaining.

00:12:06Marc:I don't know if I could have handled it any other time, and obviously I wasn't prepared to, but...

00:12:10Marc:But it did feel good to be out there and really be loose, but also just have this strange new thing to me, which is I can be funny in the moment in a way that isn't like, oh, Jesus, what did he just say?

00:12:24Marc:But just kind of roll with it.

00:12:26Marc:And it's kind of great.

00:12:27Marc:I guess what I'm trying to say, and it's obviously very hard for me to say it, is that...

00:12:34Marc:I might be enjoying myself doing what I've done my entire life, maybe for the first time in this way.

00:12:43Marc:There you go.

00:12:44Marc:I said it.

00:12:45Marc:Don't tell anybody.

00:12:48Marc:But that seems to be happening.

00:12:50Marc:And it was funny because I'm walking out and there's always like these guys who stand around and want you to sign things.

00:12:57Marc:And the assumption is like, yeah, they're just going to sell it on eBay.

00:12:59Marc:But I never really understood like how much could you really get?

00:13:04Marc:of me, of a picture of me from the Joker where I did like, you know, one scene.

00:13:09Marc:I mean, what, I guess some of them are just collecting them or maybe, you know, kind of storing them away for when I really hit, you know, sometimes it's glow, sometimes it's bad guys or whatever.

00:13:21Uh,

00:13:21Marc:Uh, you know, but now they, they come up to you and they just got a blank piece of, uh, photo, you know, uh, paper that I guess you put in a photo printer and it's just blank and you just sign it.

00:13:32Marc:And then you don't want, you know, you don't know what picture they're going to put in there.

00:13:36Marc:So I said to one of the guys, I'm like, all right, I hope you put something good in there.

00:13:39Marc:What are you gonna put in there?

00:13:40Marc:And he goes, glow.

00:13:40Marc:And I'm like, is that the moneymaker?

00:13:42Marc:He goes, I don't know.

00:13:44Marc:I'm like, all right.

00:13:46Marc:Well, that was a, that was a tremendous arc from me feeling tremendously good about myself and successful, but Hey, do what you can.

00:13:54Marc:I hope it makes you a few bucks.

00:13:56Marc:So Aquafina is here.

00:13:57Marc:And again, this is really the first time we've, we've actually talked and it was great.

00:14:03Marc:It was interesting.

00:14:04Marc:And she's in the bad guys too.

00:14:07Marc:And that's in theaters tomorrow.

00:14:08Marc:And this is me talking to Aquafina.

00:14:18Marc:What did I miss?

00:14:19Marc:Are you all hungover?

00:14:20Marc:Are you a mess?

00:14:22Guest:No, not really.

00:14:23Marc:No?

00:14:23Marc:No.

00:14:24Marc:What did I miss last night?

00:14:25Marc:I just had to go.

00:14:26Marc:I couldn't stay for the premiere.

00:14:28Marc:I just did the carpet because I did a music gig.

00:14:31Guest:Oh, yeah, right.

00:14:32Guest:You were telling us.

00:14:32Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:33Marc:How was that?

00:14:33Marc:It was great.

00:14:34Marc:It was the best one.

00:14:35Marc:I kind of felt bad, though.

00:14:36Marc:I don't want to be looked at as not a team player or something.

00:14:39Marc:Why?

00:14:40Marc:What do you mean?

00:14:40Marc:Like I didn't hang out and do the parties.

00:14:42Guest:Oh, no, no, no.

00:14:43Guest:Don't worry about that.

00:14:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:45Guest:I think everyone was kind of tired.

00:14:47Guest:I don't think a lot of people went to the after party, so yeah.

00:14:51Marc:But who was supposed to go?

00:14:52Marc:Who ran it?

00:14:54Marc:Was it DreamWorks?

00:14:55Guest:Um, yeah, I guess, I guess, yeah, I guess it was.

00:14:58Guest:Yeah, it was, it was really good.

00:15:00Guest:I went and I had, I downed like a whole, you know how they bring like a sample plate?

00:15:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:04Guest:Yeah.

00:15:05Marc:And you just ate the, you just had food and got out of there?

00:15:08Guest:Yeah, I chilled for a second, said hi to some people.

00:15:10Marc:I don't think I've ever set foot in the, um, in the Chateau.

00:15:14Guest:Oh, I didn't go to the Chateau.

00:15:16Marc:Oh, you didn't?

00:15:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:17Guest:No, I think maybe Craig stopped by.

00:15:20Guest:You never went to the Chateau?

00:15:21Marc:I went like once a million years ago.

00:15:23Marc:I drive by it all the time.

00:15:24Marc:I don't know what it is, why I have an aversion to it, because it's so cool.

00:15:32Marc:I just don't go.

00:15:33Marc:Yeah.

00:15:33Marc:Does that make sense?

00:15:34Guest:Yeah.

00:15:35Marc:Have you spent time there?

00:15:36Yeah.

00:15:36Guest:Yeah, I started spending time there because I go to like events and like parties a lot.

00:15:42Marc:Oh, right.

00:15:42Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:43Marc:Is it as nice as a, is it cool?

00:15:45Guest:It's very cool.

00:15:46Marc:Yeah.

00:15:46Guest:You can really get a sense of the history there.

00:15:49Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:50Guest:Days of, the days of your, you know.

00:15:53Guest:Yeah.

00:15:54Marc:Old timey Hollywood.

00:15:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:56Guest:Well, not, you know, 70s maybe.

00:15:58Marc:Well, yeah, there was that, but I feel like it's been there for a long time.

00:16:01Marc:I don't really know the whole history of it.

00:16:02Marc:You should go hang out there.

00:16:03Marc:Did you watch a movie last night?

00:16:05Guest:Yeah.

00:16:06Marc:And how was it?

00:16:06Marc:Is the first time you saw the whole thing?

00:16:08Guest:It was good.

00:16:08Guest:Your character is like insane in it.

00:16:10Marc:It's good?

00:16:11Guest:Yeah.

00:16:12Marc:No, it's so good.

00:16:13Marc:Yeah.

00:16:13Guest:It played really well.

00:16:15Guest:Yeah.

00:16:15Guest:You and Natasha's relationship was so toxic.

00:16:19Marc:Oh, really?

00:16:19Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:16:20Marc:Definitely.

00:16:20Marc:But it was cute.

00:16:21Guest:Yeah.

00:16:22Guest:You got a lot of laughs.

00:16:23Guest:Oh, good.

00:16:24Marc:Got the laughs.

00:16:24Guest:How did you do with the laughs?

00:16:25Guest:Good?

00:16:26Guest:Yeah, they were, you know, they got some chuckles here and there.

00:16:29Guest:Who got the big laughs?

00:16:30Guest:Craig?

00:16:31Guest:Craig got some big laughs.

00:16:33Guest:Anthony?

00:16:35Guest:Anthony got some.

00:16:36Guest:I mean, your character definitely did.

00:16:38Guest:With the yoga and stuff, that was hilarious.

00:16:40Marc:Oh, good.

00:16:41Marc:Yeah, you guys, for sure.

00:16:43Marc:It's so weird, isn't it, animation?

00:16:45Guest:It is.

00:16:46Marc:Have you done them before?

00:16:48Guest:I've done quite a few.

00:16:49Marc:Yeah?

00:16:50Marc:Yeah.

00:16:50Marc:And it feels like it's not really happening until they put the movie up.

00:16:56Guest:Yeah, you're just kind of like, yeah.

00:16:57Marc:You just go to this place for an hour or two, do the thing.

00:17:01Marc:And I'm like, it's 10 minutes from my house.

00:17:03Marc:Yeah, that's always great.

00:17:05Marc:But it was fucking crazy.

00:17:06Marc:And I can't even sense it, like how it's going to come together or what.

00:17:09Marc:No.

00:17:10Guest:But I think it's going to be big.

00:17:13Guest:Yeah, dude.

00:17:13Guest:I mean, it's already a huge franchise.

00:17:16Guest:Kids love the books and the movies.

00:17:20Guest:And it was a big event yesterday.

00:17:22Marc:It was.

00:17:23Marc:Shut down Hollywood Boulevard.

00:17:24Guest:Yeah, it's always nice.

00:17:25Marc:So I feel like generationally we're a different age and you seem to have this whole life and career and somehow it got away from me because I'm an old man.

00:17:33Marc:Is that possible?

00:17:35Yeah.

00:17:35Marc:Like, you know, when you first became huge, I feel like, what year was that with the rep, with My Vag?

00:17:44Marc:Oh, My Vag.

00:17:44Marc:That was probably 2011, 2012, yeah.

00:17:47Marc:And it was like, it wasn't on my radar.

00:17:49Marc:And now, like, when I meet you and I met you before, I realize this huge presence.

00:17:55Marc:And I like, how did I, I miss everything.

00:17:58Yeah.

00:17:58Guest:Yeah, no, I don't.

00:18:00Guest:A lot of people missed my badge.

00:18:01Guest:Oh, they did?

00:18:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:18:03Marc:It was pretty important culturally.

00:18:04Marc:It's a culturally historic moment.

00:18:06Guest:It is a historic.

00:18:07Guest:It's a landmark song.

00:18:09Guest:Yeah, I'm performing it at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

00:18:12Come on.

00:18:13Marc:But, yeah, I think everyone feels like what you just described.

00:18:16Marc:I know.

00:18:17Marc:It's hard to keep up with everything.

00:18:18Marc:But, like, I felt, like, bad about it at some point where I'm like, because you're so funny in the movies.

00:18:23Marc:And I'm like, how can I not know almost anybody?

00:18:26Guest:No.

00:18:26Marc:It's just like it gets by me sometimes.

00:18:30Marc:And then when I realize it, I feel like I've—

00:18:34Marc:Even without saying it, I've insulted somebody.

00:18:36Guest:Well, no, I think you're cool because I think you treat everyone the same.

00:18:40Guest:You know what I mean?

00:18:42Guest:Because you can see some people turn when they find, they're just like, oh, you know, they kind of shift it a little bit, yeah.

00:18:49Marc:Well, I think from doing this show, I've learned to do that, that people are just people and some of them are shitty, but they are just people.

00:18:55Marc:Right, right.

00:18:56Marc:But you grew up in New York?

00:18:57Marc:Grew up in Queens, yeah.

00:18:58Marc:Like what part of Queens?

00:19:00Marc:Forest Hills.

00:19:01Marc:So I lived in Astoria for a while.

00:19:03Marc:Oh, no way.

00:19:04Marc:Yeah, cool.

00:19:05Marc:Yeah.

00:19:05Marc:And Queens is its own world.

00:19:07Marc:It is.

00:19:07Marc:And I don't like have, do you still have family there?

00:19:10Marc:Yeah.

00:19:10Guest:Yeah.

00:19:11Guest:My dad still lives there.

00:19:12Guest:Oh, your dad?

00:19:12Guest:Yeah.

00:19:13Guest:My grandma lives like in Great Neck, which is really close to Queens.

00:19:16Marc:Well, that's nice.

00:19:17Marc:Yeah.

00:19:17Marc:Great Neck's like kind of like, that's on the island, correct?

00:19:21Guest:Yeah.

00:19:21Guest:The old Great Gatsby, East and West Egg.

00:19:24Guest:Yeah.

00:19:24Guest:It's, yeah.

00:19:25Marc:And when I was growing up, it used to be kind of Jewy.

00:19:28Marc:I don't know if it is anymore.

00:19:29Yeah.

00:19:30Marc:As a Jew, I knew that people, isn't it one of the five towns or is it not?

00:19:35Marc:They're like, they're the five towns in Long Island that were like, you know, predominantly Jewish for a while.

00:19:39Marc:But I don't think they are anymore.

00:19:41Marc:I don't know what's going on out there.

00:19:42Guest:Did you grow up in New York?

00:19:44Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.

00:19:46Marc:Oh, cool.

00:19:47Marc:With the families from Jersey.

00:19:48Marc:Had cousins out there in Long Island.

00:19:51Marc:And I always felt very connected to New York.

00:19:54Marc:Yeah.

00:19:54Marc:Do you feel a specific connection?

00:19:57Marc:I always feel like some people are in New York, some people aren't.

00:19:59Guest:I feel definitely a connection.

00:20:01Guest:But, you know, not to just like Times Square.

00:20:04Guest:You know what I mean?

00:20:05Marc:No, no.

00:20:05Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:06Guest:It's a deep connection for like, you know, the kind of the off route.

00:20:09Guest:Sure.

00:20:09Marc:Well, Queens has its own thing.

00:20:12Marc:Yeah.

00:20:13Marc:I mean, like when I was in Astoria, it was like astounding what was going on there culturally.

00:20:18Marc:I mean, I had no idea what was like from block to block.

00:20:20Marc:You're like, where am I?

00:20:21Marc:What is happening?

00:20:22Marc:Totally.

00:20:22Marc:Why are whole families shopping for vegetables at 3 a.m.?

00:20:25Marc:How does that fucking happen?

00:20:26Yeah.

00:20:26Guest:Why is there a short film contest at, you know, the bar right across, you know?

00:20:31Guest:Yeah.

00:20:31Guest:Who's over there?

00:20:32Guest:Yeah.

00:20:33Guest:Has it gotten hip?

00:20:34Guest:I don't think it got hip.

00:20:35Guest:It's pretty hip.

00:20:36Guest:The story is lit.

00:20:37Marc:Yeah.

00:20:37Guest:It's happening?

00:20:38Guest:Yeah.

00:20:39Guest:It's been happening.

00:20:40Guest:You know, the Steinway and 36th Street, right?

00:20:42Marc:Yeah, but I missed it.

00:20:43Marc:I was at Steinway and like 30th Avenue and it was not happening.

00:20:46Marc:Oh, really?

00:20:46Marc:Yeah, no.

00:20:47Guest:You're on Steinway?

00:20:47Marc:Yeah.

00:20:47Marc:I was on 37th Street and 30th Avenue.

00:20:51Marc:So it was like one block down from Steinway.

00:20:53Guest:Oh, that's cool.

00:20:54Marc:Or two.

00:20:54Guest:Did you go to the Museum of the Moving Image a lot?

00:20:56Marc:Yeah, of course.

00:20:57Marc:But then like you go left on Steinway, it's all Egyptian.

00:21:00Marc:And then you go right.

00:21:01Guest:The hookah bars, yeah.

00:21:02Guest:Yeah.

00:21:02Marc:Yeah.

00:21:02Marc:And then, like, you go a little deeper into Queens, like Jamaican and Dominican and then, like, Asian and Indian.

00:21:10Marc:It's crazy.

00:21:11Marc:It is.

00:21:11Marc:What was your neighborhood like?

00:21:13Guest:My neighborhood was actually, like, predominantly Jewish, actually, to the point where when I was, like, 11, I met, like, a— Your first Jew?

00:21:25Guest:No, I met my first like not Jewish person.

00:21:29Guest:Right.

00:21:29Guest:And and and I remember being like arguing with her a little bit.

00:21:33Guest:And I was like, yeah, right.

00:21:34Guest:I mean, obviously, everyone's Jewish, you know, if you're white.

00:21:38Guest:And she was like, not Jewish.

00:21:39Guest:It was like it was like ridiculous.

00:21:40Guest:I was like, OK, racist.

00:21:43Guest:But yeah, it was it was predominantly Jewish.

00:21:45Guest:And then I guess it became more Asian over the years.

00:21:49Marc:Really?

00:21:49Guest:Yeah.

00:21:50Marc:Was it like Orthodox or just regular Jews?

00:21:52Guest:You know, I had Orthodox neighbors in my building, but then, you know, Gentiles as well.

00:21:56Marc:Yeah.

00:21:57Marc:But I think that's like the interesting thing about New York is that like you do have entire global civilization all within one building.

00:22:06Marc:A thousand percent.

00:22:07Marc:And everybody's always on top of each other.

00:22:08Marc:There's people all around.

00:22:10Marc:And the way it gets judged is like it must be horrible.

00:22:12Marc:No, it's great.

00:22:13Marc:Yeah.

00:22:14Marc:It's fucking great.

00:22:15Marc:It's awesome.

00:22:16Marc:So what was it like?

00:22:17Marc:How did you grow up?

00:22:18Marc:How many people in the house?

00:22:19Guest:I, well, so my mom passed away when I was four, and then I lived with my dad for a little bit, but then it was hard for him to be a single dad and working.

00:22:30Guest:So I lived with my grandma.

00:22:32Guest:My grandma had a restaurant in Long Island that went bankrupt, and then she had to move from this big house to an apartment, essentially, in the building that my dad lived in.

00:22:41Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:42Guest:And she had a one-bedroom, so it was me, her, my grandpa in a one-bedroom apartment.

00:22:47Marc:And do you have memories of your mom at all?

00:22:49Guest:Like, yeah, like weird, like silhouettes, if you will.

00:22:53Guest:Yeah.

00:22:54Guest:Like vignettes of it.

00:22:55Guest:Yeah.

00:22:56Marc:That's crazy.

00:22:56Guest:Like just weird moments.

00:22:57Guest:Yeah.

00:22:58Guest:I remember like some nights really specifically.

00:23:00Guest:I remember one night really specifically and like.

00:23:03Guest:What happened?

00:23:04Guest:I couldn't go to sleep, and she was showing me the—well, I was obsessed with Gorillas in the Mist when I was a baby.

00:23:13Guest:I could not stop watching it, so she showed me The Wizard of Oz, and I remember being cranky because I was sleepy.

00:23:19Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:20Marc:It's kind of amazing, you know, how the memory works.

00:23:24Marc:And then, like, have you seen a lot of pictures of her and stuff?

00:23:28Guest:Yeah.

00:23:29Marc:So does it kind of, like, it's hard to integrate, like, what's your memory and what is just, like, from after?

00:23:35Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:23:35Guest:I actually went to Korea recently on this.

00:23:38Guest:She was Korean?

00:23:39Guest:She was Korean.

00:23:40Guest:Yeah.

00:23:40Guest:She was, like, an immigrant from Korea.

00:23:42Guest:She came for, like, art school.

00:23:43Guest:Oh, wow.

00:23:44Guest:I was doing Antony's show, No Tastes Like Home, and you get to meet.

00:23:49Guest:It's kind of like a back to your roots kind of thing.

00:23:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:52Guest:And I got to see pictures of her from grade school because they found her high school friends.

00:23:57Guest:I'd never seen her at that age, and she looked a lot like me.

00:24:00Guest:And I was sitting with her two friends who didn't speak English and the translator, and I was like, oh, wow.

00:24:07Guest:And they were like, you look like her.

00:24:08Guest:We're all crying.

00:24:09Guest:And I was like, oh, they were like, you look like her.

00:24:11Guest:And I was like, oh, yeah, no.

00:24:12Guest:And then...

00:24:13Guest:One of them was like, she was prettier, though.

00:24:17Guest:And then I went to the translator.

00:24:20Guest:The translator said it to me, and I was like, oh, because they probably say that because she's dead.

00:24:25Guest:And then it's like, no, they don't say that.

00:24:28Marc:No, she's definitely prettier than you.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:31Guest:So you went to her hometown?

00:24:33Yeah.

00:24:33Guest:I did.

00:24:34Guest:In South Korea?

00:24:35Guest:Yeah.

00:24:36Guest:Yeah.

00:24:37Guest:It was just a really intense experience, though, because those shows are usually like, you know, someone like finding out like that their family came into Ellis Island years ago.

00:24:47Guest:But this was like my mom.

00:24:48Guest:Yeah.

00:24:49Guest:So it was it would just it was it felt like a couple of generations too close.

00:24:52Guest:You know what I mean?

00:24:53Marc:Yeah.

00:24:53Marc:So it's not like finding your roots where you just sit there and he has a book.

00:24:57Marc:Yeah.

00:24:57Marc:No.

00:24:57Marc:Go.

00:24:58Guest:Yeah.

00:24:59Guest:Yeah.

00:24:59Guest:There was a book involved.

00:25:00Guest:I guess they always need a book.

00:25:01Marc:And they give you the book and then you have it.

00:25:03Guest:There was a record of my—there's, like, certain families in Korea, they keep a record of, like, everyone that got married.

00:25:11Guest:And ours goes back, like, to the 1500s.

00:25:13Guest:That's crazy.

00:25:15Guest:Yeah, it goes back to the—it's, like, crazy.

00:25:17Guest:But then when it got to my mom's generation, she was one of seven, and they had written her out of the book because she moved to America and married a Chinese guy.

00:25:25Marc:And that was, like, a taboo?

00:25:27Marc:That was, like, a no-no?

00:25:28Yeah.

00:25:28Guest:That was a big no-no, yeah.

00:25:29Guest:That was a big, yeah.

00:25:30Marc:And what kind of art she'd do?

00:25:33Guest:She made, like, huge paintings that were really, like, tortured 70s colors of naked women running away.

00:25:43Guest:All kinds of naked women.

00:25:46Guest:In flight.

00:25:47Guest:Totally.

00:25:48Guest:Yeah, there's one where I'm just like, what?

00:25:50Guest:As a child, I was like, what the fuck is this?

00:25:52Marc:You know what I mean?

00:25:52Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:53Marc:So it wasn't like it wasn't hinged to any kind of traditional art.

00:25:56Marc:She was really a modern painter.

00:25:58Guest:Yeah, in Korea, they just, at that time, her story was that they just want you to be able to replicate anything and draw with precision.

00:26:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:07Guest:And I guess, like, the AbEx movement was happening in the United States, and she loved, like, Susanna Rothenberg is one of her favorite artists.

00:26:14Marc:Oh, the horses.

00:26:15Guest:Yeah, the fragmented horses.

00:26:16Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:17Guest:That was her favorite artist.

00:26:18Marc:Oh, she was great.

00:26:20Guest:Yeah, dude.

00:26:21Guest:Oh, my God.

00:26:21Guest:I wonder what happened to her.

00:26:22Guest:I think she passed.

00:26:24Guest:Did she?

00:26:24Guest:Yeah.

00:26:25Guest:Yeah.

00:26:25Marc:Because I remember seeing those at the Whitney or something.

00:26:28Marc:It was in one of the biennials.

00:26:30Marc:I really thought I dug her stuff.

00:26:32Marc:And that was your mom's person, huh?

00:26:34Guest:Yeah, she was obsessed.

00:26:36Guest:So I think she wanted to do more abstract stuff.

00:26:38Marc:And that's why she left Korea?

00:26:40Marc:Yeah, she wanted to do art school in the United States.

00:26:43Marc:That's so fucking good.

00:26:44Marc:It's not the general Asian tale I hear of people's upbringing.

00:26:48Marc:Oh, not at all.

00:26:49Marc:It's usually like, they just expected so much.

00:26:54Marc:There was nothing I could do to please them.

00:27:01Guest:No, it's so true.

00:27:03Guest:It's so true.

00:27:04Marc:Oh, you got off easy in a way.

00:27:05Marc:I'm sorry she passed away, but at least the history is like this abstract artist and not like a disappointed person.

00:27:13Guest:Yeah, no, it sounds like something like Chachi B.T.

00:27:15Guest:wrote or something.

00:27:16Guest:Oh, my God.

00:27:17Guest:Yeah.

00:27:17Guest:Do you have any of her paintings?

00:27:19Guest:I do.

00:27:20Guest:I do.

00:27:21Guest:We have all of them, yeah.

00:27:22Guest:And they're huge?

00:27:23Guest:Yeah, they're massive.

00:27:24Guest:They're huge.

00:27:25Guest:And, you know, those kind of like 70s greens and oranges.

00:27:28Guest:Sure.

00:27:29Marc:Have you put together a show of her stuff?

00:27:31Guest:You know, it's so weird because my dad, like, I guess met someone at his work and they know he's my dad.

00:27:40Guest:And this woman came up to him and was like, we should do an art show of your mom's stuff.

00:27:44Guest:And he told me about that because my mom really trusted him with, like, keeping the art preserved.

00:27:48Guest:Your dad?

00:27:49Guest:My dad.

00:27:50Guest:So, like, my dad has taken such good care of them, like, over these years.

00:27:53Guest:He doesn't take care of literally anything.

00:27:54Guest:Right.

00:27:55Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:27:55Guest:But, yeah, so he was approached by this co-worker who was like, I want to put on an art show of your wife's paintings.

00:28:05Guest:And my reaction at that time, because I didn't understand art to that level yet, I was like, Dad, that's so exploitative.

00:28:13Guest:Like, why would you do that?

00:28:14Guest:Like, that is, what, are you going to, like, sell mom's art for, what, like, 35 bucks?

00:28:19Guest:Like, where the fuck are we going to do this?

00:28:21Guest:He didn't understand.

00:28:21Guest:We're going to go to Flushing Meadow.

00:28:22Guest:Like, where are we going to do this?

00:28:24Guest:And I was so angry at him.

00:28:26Guest:And then I— How old were you then?

00:28:30Guest:This was probably, I mean, maybe like six or seven years ago.

00:28:34Guest:Oh, really?

00:28:35Guest:Yeah.

00:28:36Guest:And so, like—and then I met someone in, like, the art world, and we became friends.

00:28:42Guest:Like, well, you know, we kind of dated.

00:28:44Guest:Yeah.

00:28:45Guest:But, you know, I think that, like—

00:28:48Guest:Basically, I learned that art is, like, all artists wanted is their art to be seen.

00:28:54Guest:They don't want it locked up in a cooling storage.

00:28:56Guest:And when I realized that, I felt bad.

00:28:59Guest:And so, yeah, I was like, I'm sorry, Dad.

00:29:02Guest:I screamed at you and took you to court, you know?

00:29:05Guest:You took him to court?

00:29:06Marc:No, no, no, no.

00:29:07Marc:That's so impressive in a way because my mom was a painter too.

00:29:11Marc:Oh, no way.

00:29:12Marc:Yeah.

00:29:13Marc:But they toil away and they never reach the point where they want to reach.

00:29:18Marc:And your mom passed away and my mom just sort of gave it up.

00:29:21Marc:But there's all these really kind of visceral and aggressive attempts to express yourself and they just exist in the world.

00:29:29Marc:And what do you do with it?

00:29:31Marc:So are you going to do a show?

00:29:33Yeah.

00:29:33Marc:I mean, yeah.

00:29:36Guest:Why not?

00:29:36Guest:Just find a space.

00:29:37Guest:I've talked to some people about it.

00:29:39Guest:Sandra Oh is like a really good friend.

00:29:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:29:42Guest:She's great.

00:29:42Guest:Yeah.

00:29:43Guest:She set me up with a person that she.

00:29:45Guest:I mean, you don't have to sell them.

00:29:47Guest:Yeah.

00:29:47Marc:You can just have someone look at them.

00:29:48Guest:Yeah, that's all I want.

00:29:50Guest:That's all I want is it to be seen.

00:29:51Marc:I think that'd be like really cool.

00:29:52Marc:Yeah.

00:29:53Marc:And you could like it be like it's an interesting kind of community thing, too.

00:29:57Marc:I mean, like because I don't how many like Asian modern art painters.

00:30:02Marc:There's a lot of them now, but it seemed like she was sort of at the cutting edge of it or maybe.

00:30:06Guest:Yeah.

00:30:06Guest:I mean, it was so unexpected.

00:30:08Guest:I think now being an Asian woman, understanding kind of like what those kind of, what those kind of like models for what you, you know, what those are.

00:30:15Guest:Yeah.

00:30:16Guest:Like, and what she was painting.

00:30:18Guest:I remember when I was young, she'd bring, you know, like kind of like busty, you know, like models.

00:30:25Guest:Oh, really?

00:30:25Guest:And my dad would have to take me to the park because they're just naked, you know?

00:30:28Guest:Probably for himself, too.

00:30:30Marc:Yeah, he was like, oh, yeah.

00:30:31Marc:I should go.

00:30:32Guest:Binoculars and the, yeah, no.

00:30:34Yeah.

00:30:34Marc:What did your dad do?

00:30:36Guest:He did IT.

00:30:38Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:30:38Marc:Yeah.

00:30:40Marc:And what kind of restaurant did your grandma have?

00:30:44Guest:Well, my great-grandpa opened the first Chinese restaurant in Flushing, basically.

00:30:50Guest:Really?

00:30:51Guest:That was a big institution.

00:30:52Guest:Yeah.

00:30:53Guest:If you have family that still lives there that was alive in the 70s, they definitely went.

00:30:59Guest:What was it called?

00:31:00Guest:Lums.

00:31:01Guest:Yeah?

00:31:01Guest:Yeah.

00:31:02Marc:Was it the place?

00:31:03Guest:Yeah.

00:31:03Guest:It was happening, dude.

00:31:04Guest:The Mets went there all the time, yeah.

00:31:06Guest:So it was like high-end?

00:31:08Guest:Yeah, high-end, it was more experiential, like a Benihana, but Chinese, you know, like they had an Arhu player when you walk in, something like that.

00:31:15Marc:Yeah.

00:31:16Marc:So he was like a predecessor to Mr. Chow?

00:31:19Yeah.

00:31:19Guest:No, I think Mr. Chow was like his own.

00:31:21Guest:Mr. Chow was like Mr. Chow.

00:31:23Marc:This was like, yeah.

00:31:25Guest:But yeah.

00:31:27Guest:And then my grandma started one in a strip mall in Long Island that went bankrupt.

00:31:30Guest:Was it good, though?

00:31:32Guest:It was all right.

00:31:32Guest:I don't remember.

00:31:33Guest:It was probably all right.

00:31:34Guest:It's all the same shit.

00:31:37Marc:Do you feel like your drive to get into the arts was directly relative to your mom?

00:31:44Yeah.

00:31:45Guest:I mean, I think that it might have given me the like idea that that is a viable.

00:31:53Marc:You can do whatever you want.

00:31:54Guest:Yeah.

00:31:54Guest:I mean, to be an artist like what she was doing, it takes a degree of entitlement too.

00:32:00Guest:It's like it's so.

00:32:01Guest:And risk, right?

00:32:02Guest:It's total risk.

00:32:03Guest:But it's like, you know, like it's one of those bets that.

00:32:06Guest:No one's going to really support you on in your life, right?

00:32:09Marc:Well, yeah.

00:32:10Marc:Your spouse, your family.

00:32:11Guest:She had to run from Korea.

00:32:12Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:13Guest:And that must have been scary to end up with my dad, who's great, but, like, you know, very neurodivergent, you know, and I think that she definitely missed home a lot.

00:32:23Marc:How'd she end up with him?

00:32:25Guest:I mean, she was, like, a cool, like, art student from South Korea, a bit older than my dad.

00:32:31Guest:Where'd she go?

00:32:32Guest:They met at New Pulse.

00:32:33Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:35Guest:So my dad was, like—basically, my dad was, like, obsessed with her.

00:32:38Guest:And younger, and yeah.

00:32:41Marc:She was younger?

00:32:42Marc:He was younger.

00:32:43Marc:Oh, really?

00:32:44Marc:And he is obsessed.

00:32:44Marc:Well, I mean, if you're obsessed and you're not dangerous and you're persistent, sometimes—

00:32:50Marc:It delivers.

00:32:51Guest:No, for sure, yeah.

00:32:53Marc:You can annoy somebody into loving you eventually.

00:32:55Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:32:56Marc:Can you still in 2025?

00:32:57Marc:I think so.

00:32:59Marc:I think people are still wired the same way.

00:33:01Marc:There's different ways to do it.

00:33:03Marc:I don't think you can do it online so much because then it's just creepy.

00:33:06Marc:Right, right, right.

00:33:07Marc:But I think when people are in love with people and the other person isn't quite sure about it, they keep showing up.

00:33:14Marc:Sometimes it works out.

00:33:16Guest:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

00:33:17Marc:Yeah.

00:33:17Marc:No, that's true.

00:33:18Marc:Because maybe, maybe I am in love with you.

00:33:20Marc:I just don't know it.

00:33:21Marc:So thank you for selling me on it.

00:33:22Guest:There are people that if you don't keep showing up, they literally forget about you.

00:33:26Guest:Oh yeah.

00:33:26Guest:So you have to, and maybe that's the fear of why, and then it prompts people to anxiously show up for all the time.

00:33:30Guest:Yeah.

00:33:31Guest:So has he just been like kind of a heartbroken guy the whole time?

00:33:34Guest:He definitely was for years.

00:33:36Guest:Yeah.

00:33:37Guest:He would, I would wake up and he'd be listening to REM.

00:33:39Guest:Oh wow.

00:33:40Guest:Like on the floor with the socks on the headphones.

00:33:43Guest:And I'd be like, dad, dad, come on.

00:33:45Guest:R.E.M.

00:33:47Guest:It's like, why you got to listen to R.E.M.

00:33:49Guest:out of all, you know.

00:33:50Marc:I just wanted to be in the sadness.

00:33:52Guest:Yeah.

00:33:53Guest:I was like, they make singles on vinyl.

00:33:55Guest:Everybody hurts them.

00:33:56Guest:It's like, what, are you just rewinding to that song constantly?

00:33:59Guest:Like, what's going on?

00:34:00Marc:Yeah.

00:34:00Marc:Do you have siblings or no?

00:34:02Marc:Only child.

00:34:03Marc:Yeah.

00:34:03Guest:How was that?

00:34:05Guest:Man, it was lonesome, dude.

00:34:08Guest:You see some shit as an only child.

00:34:10Marc:You know, I've poked at only children a lot.

00:34:13Marc:Yeah, what do you say about them?

00:34:16Marc:But I'm always wrong.

00:34:17Marc:Because my theory on it was like if you're an only child, it's a lot of pressure because there's no other siblings.

00:34:25Marc:Yeah.

00:34:26Marc:You've got to really show up and not disappoint your parents and not die.

00:34:31Marc:Yeah.

00:34:32Marc:It's crazy.

00:34:33Guest:I really never cared about disappointing my parents in that way.

00:34:37Guest:I felt like it was just kind of sad.

00:34:39Guest:But then I didn't want siblings either.

00:34:42Guest:You know what I mean?

00:34:42Guest:Yeah.

00:34:43Marc:What do you see when you say you see some shit?

00:34:45Marc:What do you mean?

00:34:46Guest:You just see all kinds of, like, you know.

00:34:49Guest:you know people playing mahjong in a laundromat because you know and I feel like in New York it was always like a bloody shoe somewhere you know what I mean and like you had no one really to say ill with you know what I mean you just had to take it you just internalize it you're just like oh that's a disgusting pigeon that was completely run over and yeah no one to kind of like have like well I guess when you have siblings at a certain age you can always kind of you know have them whether they're beating you up or not you can at least commiserate

00:35:18Guest:Yeah, and when you think about, like, just, like, what your body is going through when you're a kid.

00:35:24Guest:And, like, raised by my grandma.

00:35:26Guest:Like, literally, she'd be like, like, she would, like, give me witch hazel.

00:35:30Guest:You know what I mean?

00:35:31Guest:And she's like, you got to use this witch hazel.

00:35:32Guest:And I'm like, why?

00:35:33Guest:Yeah, for what was that for her?

00:35:35Guest:I think just, like, for all kinds of—I don't know what it's for, but, yeah, you put it on your body and stuff.

00:35:41Marc:Yeah, so there's a generational difference, and she also had, like, a cultural specificity about her things.

00:35:49Guest:Yeah, she worked in the exchange cart unit and just stole all the supplies.

00:35:54Guest:So she had, you know, my—yeah, the horrible things.

00:35:59Guest:Yeah.

00:35:59Guest:But you got along with her.

00:36:01Guest:Oh, I love my—she's my best friend, dude.

00:36:03Guest:Yeah.

00:36:04Guest:Your grandmother?

00:36:05Guest:Yeah, but, you know, she's—it's really sad.

00:36:07Guest:She's, like, getting old now, so it's hard.

00:36:10Marc:Yeah.

00:36:11Marc:And, like—and she—I mean, I guess, like, to show up, you know, and fill that void, that must have been, like, a big deal.

00:36:19Guest:Yeah.

00:36:20Marc:What did she—and did she—were they always supportive of the creative kind of—

00:36:27Guest:focus you had my dad was so like let down that I or you know what not even let down just angry that I would like really think that like a career in music at that time would work yeah and uh he would he signed me up for all these government services that give you the job listings like he really wanted me to be a meat inspector um a sonogram technician or a uh like a tower control uh

00:36:52Guest:Air traffic?

00:36:53Guest:And air traffic control, yeah, because they make a lot of money in the entrance fees.

00:36:57Guest:So he kept sending me, like, spamming with all this stuff.

00:37:00Guest:But my grandma, like, when I was, like, I loved musicals when I was, like, 13, she would bring me to music lessons.

00:37:06Guest:Yeah.

00:37:07Guest:Yeah, she always, she never supported.

00:37:10Guest:Thank God you had a lifesaver.

00:37:12Guest:I know, literally, because the air traffic controllers.

00:37:14Marc:Well, it's weird.

00:37:15Marc:My grandfather was like that with civil service.

00:37:17Marc:He's like, you know, you should get a job at the post office.

00:37:20Marc:Yeah.

00:37:20Marc:You get a good, you know, benefits.

00:37:24Guest:Right.

00:37:24Marc:Oh, yeah, that's true.

00:37:25Marc:Well, yeah.

00:37:26Marc:I mean, that was usually their whole thing was this security thing.

00:37:29Marc:Right.

00:37:29Marc:So they find these angles.

00:37:31Marc:And for some reason, they always went to the government.

00:37:32Marc:And it's like, I don't want to.

00:37:34Marc:Like, you got to work for the city.

00:37:36Marc:You want to crack it?

00:37:37Marc:Work for this.

00:37:37Marc:Yeah.

00:37:37Marc:Yeah, because they think that you're going to get this package where you're going to have benefits for the rest of your life.

00:37:42Marc:I can't even imagine.

00:37:43Marc:It's a very working class state of mind.

00:37:45Marc:It's not bad.

00:37:46Marc:You're right.

00:37:47Marc:You know, but I think they're well intended.

00:37:50Marc:But Jesus, open your mind a little bit.

00:37:53Marc:Yeah.

00:37:53Marc:So it was music at first.

00:37:55Guest:I mean, honestly, it was, yeah, yeah.

00:37:58Guest:I mean, I always liked doing funny stuff.

00:38:02Guest:Then at that time, I was making music, other music, like therapeutically.

00:38:06Guest:I got into music.

00:38:08Guest:I went to high school for the trumpet.

00:38:10Guest:Did you go to that fancy one?

00:38:12Guest:Yeah, LaGuardia.

00:38:13Guest:Yeah.

00:38:13Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:14Guest:Can you still play?

00:38:15Guest:Yeah, but you don't want to, right?

00:38:18Guest:Because your neighbors know and you don't want them, you know, your silver bells.

00:38:22Marc:But were you like a jazz person?

00:38:24Guest:No, not necessarily.

00:38:26Guest:I just played super loud and like my band teacher loved me.

00:38:31Guest:So when we did like live in La Vida Loca, like I was always first chair and like really jazz is harder a little bit.

00:38:39Marc:So when you went to, what's it called?

00:38:41Marc:LaGuardia?

00:38:42Marc:LaGuardia, yeah.

00:38:42Marc:Yeah, the fame school.

00:38:43Marc:Yeah.

00:38:44Marc:I mean, most people, including myself, only know it from the movie.

00:38:49Marc:But I imagine that must have been a mind-opening experience.

00:38:53Guest:Yeah, that was really crazy to go from the public school system in Queens to literally going to Lincoln Center every single day.

00:39:04Guest:Great, right?

00:39:05Guest:Yeah, it was cool.

00:39:05Guest:It was cool.

00:39:07Guest:It was intimidating for sure.

00:39:09Guest:Why?

00:39:09Guest:Because all the, you know, you're passing Juilliard on the way to school.

00:39:13Guest:You know, I'm taking the one train at, like, 13.

00:39:16Guest:It's like, yeah.

00:39:17Guest:A lot of pressure.

00:39:18Guest:Yeah, everyone's smoking cigarettes after they come out and stuff.

00:39:21Guest:And everyone's, like, so cool because they're all, like, fashion people.

00:39:24Marc:Yeah.

00:39:25Marc:And they already know at that age that they want to be in the arts.

00:39:27Marc:So I just, like, because art kids are always the best.

00:39:31Marc:I mean, you must have been, like, you know, influenced by people there.

00:39:35Marc:Yeah.

00:39:35Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:39:36Marc:Yeah.

00:39:37Marc:What did you start to, like, get into?

00:39:39Guest:I think that was when I got into, you know, I feel like it was kind of like all the guys were obsessed with underground hip-hop atmosphere.

00:39:50Guest:Yeah.

00:39:51Guest:So I started to really get into kind of indie hip-hop.

00:39:55Guest:Indie hip-hop?

00:39:55Guest:Yeah.

00:39:56Guest:Yeah.

00:39:57Guest:And I guess what else did I get into?

00:39:59Guest:I guess like cutting class constantly and not so much weed.

00:40:05Guest:Yeah.

00:40:05Guest:Who were your other artist influences?

00:40:07Guest:Like musicians?

00:40:08Guest:Anything.

00:40:09Marc:Writers.

00:40:09Guest:Artists.

00:40:11Guest:I mean, this is going to sound, I love like Anais Nin.

00:40:15Guest:Yeah?

00:40:16Guest:I love Mark Manson.

00:40:17Marc:Yeah.

00:40:18Guest:Which is, no one wants to hear that.

00:40:20Marc:What does he do?

00:40:20Marc:I don't know him.

00:40:21Guest:He does that book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

00:40:23Guest:Oh, that's good.

00:40:24Guest:Yeah.

00:40:25Guest:Have you?

00:40:25Marc:No, I heard of it.

00:40:26Guest:Okay.

00:40:27Guest:Yeah, he has some bangers in there, though.

00:40:28Guest:People don't, yeah.

00:40:29Guest:Is there like a philosophy text?

00:40:32Guest:It's like a, it's like a, it's like a crass, like self-help book for men or for whoever.

00:40:41Marc:Yeah.

00:40:42Marc:And you took some.

00:40:42Guest:I love, I love, yeah.

00:40:44Guest:I mean, he has this whole thing about like your greatest joy will also give you the greatest pain.

00:40:49Marc:Yeah.

00:40:49Guest:So they, they kind of go hand in hand.

00:40:51Guest:You know what I mean?

00:40:52Guest:Yeah.

00:40:52Guest:I love that.

00:40:53Guest:I love that.

00:40:53Guest:That's true, right?

00:40:54Guest:It's so, yeah, it's so true.

00:40:56Guest:Oh my God.

00:40:57Guest:Yeah.

00:40:57Guest:Joy.

00:40:58Guest:That's evasive.

00:40:59Guest:Yeah.

00:41:00Guest:Yeah.

00:41:00Guest:I hate joy.

00:41:01Guest:Yeah.

00:41:01Guest:Joy sucks.

00:41:02Guest:Yeah.

00:41:02Guest:Really?

00:41:02Guest:I question it at all times.

00:41:04Guest:Yeah, but that's why it's the worst.

00:41:06Guest:It is kind of like the worst emotion.

00:41:07Guest:I feel like Brene Brown said something like that.

00:41:10Guest:Joy is, you know, I always thought that was an Asian thing because joy is the signal that something horrible is going to happen immediately.

00:41:18Marc:That's part of the Asian philosophy?

00:41:21Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:41:22Guest:That was actually a saying.

00:41:24Marc:That's good.

00:41:25Marc:I'm glad I avoided it at all costs the joy.

00:41:27Marc:Why?

00:41:28Marc:Why?

00:41:30Marc:I don't know.

00:41:30Marc:I don't really know if I can identify it.

00:41:32Marc:I do have moments where I feel at peace a bit, you know.

00:41:36Marc:And I think like last night, even when I was playing music, I guess there was some joy there because I was nailing it.

00:41:42Marc:Yeah.

00:41:42Marc:And I don't usually nail it.

00:41:44Marc:But I guess because it's not my primary thing.

00:41:47Marc:Like I play, but now I've started over the last couple of years to play with people.

00:41:51Marc:And that's a whole other thing.

00:41:52Marc:And to, you know, to kind of work as a group and stuff.

00:41:55Marc:Sure.

00:41:55Marc:And there were just like moments last night where I'm like, this is good.

00:41:58Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:41:58Marc:And I guess that's as close as you get to joy as a creative person.

00:42:02Marc:It's like, hey, I'm doing it.

00:42:03Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:42:04Guest:Yeah, literally.

00:42:05Guest:What?

00:42:06Guest:Do you have joy?

00:42:07Guest:The definition of joy, I think, changes, right?

00:42:10Guest:I don't know.

00:42:11Guest:Well, no.

00:42:12Guest:I mean, you're clearly an amazing musician.

00:42:14Guest:I know you're an amazing guitarist.

00:42:16Guest:I'm okay.

00:42:16Guest:But of course you're going to feel joy in those moments.

00:42:19Guest:It's not necessarily like—it's funny where you derive joy from.

00:42:23Marc:Well, you can't.

00:42:24Marc:I guess you can't—

00:42:26Marc:The idea of pursuing joy, it's just like, how do you even fucking do that?

00:42:31Marc:And you can't live in it.

00:42:32Marc:It's like happiness.

00:42:33Marc:I don't know.

00:42:34Marc:I think I'm at an age where all these questions are becoming kind of pressing as I get older.

00:42:39Marc:It's sort of like, dude, you're running out of time.

00:42:42Marc:You better get that happy thing going.

00:42:43Guest:No, you're not running out.

00:42:44Guest:Yeah, you're just getting started.

00:42:46Marc:Yeah, this is the person that said when we're going to fly on a private plane on Saturday, they go down all the time.

00:42:51Guest:They do.

00:42:54Marc:I brought it up again today.

00:42:57Marc:I've never been on a private plane, and we're going to go down to Comic-Con for the bad guys.

00:43:00Marc:You're like, oh, man.

00:43:01Marc:They go down all the time.

00:43:04Guest:I mean, I'm not going to lie.

00:43:07Guest:It's a lovely, like, convenience and privilege when you get to especially ride with, you know, a lot of, like, you know, it's being kind of.

00:43:15Marc:Is everyone going?

00:43:16Guest:Yeah.

00:43:17Guest:Yeah.

00:43:17Guest:I think so.

00:43:17Marc:We're all going to be on that plane.

00:43:19Guest:I think so.

00:43:20Marc:Well, you know, we hopefully don't have too many bags on.

00:43:23Marc:And I'm not going to bring a bag.

00:43:24Marc:We're going for like a few hours.

00:43:26Marc:Yeah.

00:43:26Marc:Well, it's crazy.

00:43:28Guest:Yeah.

00:43:29Guest:It'll be fun, though.

00:43:30Marc:Yeah.

00:43:30Marc:OK.

00:43:31Marc:Yeah.

00:43:31Marc:I'll take your word for it.

00:43:33Marc:So so you never really pursued the trumpet as the thing.

00:43:37Marc:No.

00:43:38Guest:I mean, there was a part of me that would be like, my holy grail would be making it to the pit of the Lion King, but that would never happen.

00:43:51Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:52Marc:So it was really about musicals.

00:43:55Guest:I love musicals.

00:43:56Guest:I like being able to do stuff.

00:43:57Guest:Like what you were saying about the guitar.

00:43:58Guest:I like being able to just like play.

00:44:01Guest:Yeah.

00:44:01Guest:That was always fun.

00:44:02Guest:And even in an ensemble with everyone in a band.

00:44:05Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:06Marc:That always gave me joy.

00:44:07Marc:Yeah.

00:44:08Marc:So when does the shift happen to where you start doing the other thing, the funny business?

00:44:15Marc:And I guess it started musically, right?

00:44:17Yeah.

00:44:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:18Guest:I mean, I think after a while, you know, because you're the best trumpet player in your middle school, and then when you go to high school, you're like the 50th best trumpet player in the school.

00:44:27Marc:Especially at an arts high school.

00:44:29Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:44:30Guest:And I think that I started to kind of resent...

00:44:34Guest:like the arts being like the academia, like you don't want to, I felt like it was weird to take something that felt so like personal and like really just like there's a lot of material there and it's me.

00:44:48Guest:It's like my soul.

00:44:50Guest:And then putting it into a book and then being tested on it.

00:44:53Guest:I felt like it was just an impossible medium.

00:44:55Guest:And so like I started to feel less like,

00:44:59Guest:It was personal.

00:45:01Guest:I felt like I was just trying to compete with people I'll never be able to be better than.

00:45:04Guest:Right.

00:45:05Guest:And then I just started messing around with GarageBand when it first came out.

00:45:11Guest:When you go to college, everyone gets a MacBook or something.

00:45:14Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:45:14Guest:I started doing that.

00:45:16Guest:And I remember when I was first making songs, I was like, it is going to take me like 15 years for these to actually sound good and normal.

00:45:23Guest:But I still like obsessively do that.

00:45:25Guest:And then, yeah, and I was like, because I'm a serious person.

00:45:29Guest:But then I also like I like writing.

00:45:31Guest:I like being comedic, too.

00:45:33Guest:And so when that music, I made that song.

00:45:37Guest:And then like three years later, a guy that I knew said, like, we should make a music video out of it.

00:45:43Marc:Out of the My Vag song?

00:45:45Marc:Yeah.

00:45:45Marc:And that was based on another song?

00:45:47Guest:My Dick.

00:45:48Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:45:48Marc:Yeah.

00:45:49Marc:See, like that stuff, I don't know that world.

00:45:52Marc:Yeah, that's okay.

00:45:52Marc:It seems like I should know my dick.

00:45:56Marc:That should be in my cultural repertoire.

00:45:59Marc:Well, you do know quite a lot.

00:46:02Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:46:02Guest:But was that a big hit, My Dick?

00:46:04Guest:Yeah, it was a big hit.

00:46:06Guest:It was a big hit.

00:46:06Guest:It was in that movie.

00:46:08Guest:I feel like it was Harold and Kumar.

00:46:10Marc:Oh, OK.

00:46:10Guest:Yeah.

00:46:12Guest:You know who those guys are?

00:46:12Marc:Yeah, I know who those guys are.

00:46:14Marc:OK, cool.

00:46:14Marc:I don't know if I know.

00:46:17Marc:I don't know if I saw the movies, but I know who they are.

00:46:21Marc:What's your favorite movie?

00:46:22Marc:That's a good question.

00:46:24Marc:I don't know.

00:46:25Marc:There's a lot of them.

00:46:26Guest:What's a movie that you can watch over and over?

00:46:29Marc:Michael Clayton.

00:46:30Guest:Oh, wow.

00:46:32Guest:Yeah.

00:46:32Marc:That's a good movie.

00:46:34Marc:It's a great movie.

00:46:35Guest:Yeah.

00:46:35Marc:And I can watch, you know, I have weird movies lately because I've gotten more sentimental.

00:46:42Marc:Aw.

00:46:43Marc:I don't know if they're great movies, but I can watch The Devil Wears Prada at any moment.

00:46:47Marc:Really?

00:46:48Yeah.

00:46:48Guest:I thought you were going to say like advocate or something.

00:46:52Guest:That's a good one.

00:46:54Guest:Yeah, that's a great one.

00:46:56Guest:They're redoing it.

00:46:57Guest:Are they?

00:46:57Marc:Oh, really?

00:46:58Guest:They're shooting the sequel.

00:47:00Marc:Yeah, there's certain movies where people who are heavy characters, when they do something light, I'm kind of impressed with it.

00:47:07Marc:Like I rewatched The Fucking Intern the other day with De Niro and Anne Hathaway.

00:47:11Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:47:12Marc:That actually was a good one.

00:47:13Guest:It's good.

00:47:14Guest:It was really enjoyable.

00:47:15Marc:To see De Niro kind of lock into something lighter and still bring all of his stuff to it.

00:47:22Marc:Totally.

00:47:22Marc:I think what we're finding is that Anne Hathaway has an impact on me.

00:47:26Marc:Yeah.

00:47:26Guest:Have you seen The Princess Diaries?

00:47:29Marc:I have not.

00:47:31Marc:Okay.

00:47:32Marc:All right.

00:47:33Marc:I'll watch the Scorsese movies whenever they're on.

00:47:35Marc:And I watched Paris, Texas again recently that I hadn't seen that since I was in high school.

00:47:40Marc:Yeah, it's a banger too.

00:47:41Marc:Yeah, and I realized I'd missed the entire plot of the movie.

00:47:44Guest:I don't think that's not that hard to do.

00:47:48Marc:Well, it's weird because that movie, like when I went to high school, it seems like you're in the same boat.

00:47:54Marc:There were very grown up things that I really felt like I got.

00:47:57Marc:You know what I mean?

00:47:58Marc:Like I read somewhere that you're a Bukowski person.

00:48:00Marc:Yeah, I love, yeah.

00:48:02Marc:But, like, when did you get turned on to that?

00:48:04Marc:How did that happen?

00:48:05Guest:My dad had a collection of his poetry.

00:48:08Marc:Oh, so it was the poems.

00:48:09Guest:Yeah, it was the poems first.

00:48:11Guest:And then it was, like, factotum.

00:48:13Guest:Yeah.

00:48:14Guest:But his poems still get me, dude.

00:48:16Guest:And it was Notes of a Dirty Old Man.

00:48:19Guest:That's the book, too.

00:48:21Marc:Yep.

00:48:21Marc:Yeah.

00:48:22Marc:The stories, like, memoir things.

00:48:23Marc:Yeah, dude.

00:48:24Marc:Yeah.

00:48:25Marc:And you were reading that as a kid?

00:48:27Marc:Yeah.

00:48:28Marc:Your dad sounds like an interesting guy, despite the kind of nerdy way you presented him.

00:48:33Marc:I mean, between R.E.M.

00:48:34Marc:and Bukowski, that's pretty good.

00:48:36Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:48:38Guest:No, he's cool.

00:48:39Guest:Yeah, I started reading it then.

00:48:41Guest:It was just different than everything I read.

00:48:44Guest:Well, the poetry is very straightforward.

00:48:46Guest:Yeah, I love it.

00:48:47Guest:It's great.

00:48:48Guest:Yeah.

00:48:48Guest:And he really paints a picture of like just a disgusting hotel downtown, you know.

00:48:53Marc:Yeah.

00:48:53Marc:And it's all L.A.

00:48:54Marc:stuff, too.

00:48:55Guest:Yeah.

00:48:56Guest:Yeah.

00:48:56Marc:Yeah.

00:48:56Marc:There was one.

00:48:56Marc:The book I had was what is it?

00:48:58Marc:Burning in Water, Drowning in Flame.

00:49:01Marc:It was a it was a collection of poems.

00:49:03Marc:And he was on that press that made the really nice covers, you know, for what, you know, all the books looked really cool.

00:49:08Guest:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:Yeah.

00:49:09Guest:It was always like a silhouette of his kind of face.

00:49:12Marc:That was on the notes.

00:49:14Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:15Guest:Sorry.

00:49:16Marc:That was that black and white with his pockmarked face.

00:49:19Marc:Looked like the cover of The Giver.

00:49:20Marc:Yeah.

00:49:21Marc:And you're like, how could this not be great?

00:49:22Marc:Right, right.

00:49:23Marc:Totally.

00:49:23Marc:So that must have blown your mind.

00:49:25Guest:Anais Nin blew my mind, dude.

00:49:27Guest:What about it?

00:49:28Guest:It was just—it was like—I don't think I've ever read—that was my first, like—

00:49:33Guest:I guess female writer that like really went there.

00:49:36Marc:Yeah.

00:49:37Guest:And, and like, I have now a book of her quotes and she is, I mean like, yeah, live, laugh, love, dude.

00:49:43Marc:Yeah.

00:49:43Guest:I also saw like Henry and June.

00:49:45Guest:Is that what it's called?

00:49:45Guest:Yeah.

00:49:46Guest:When I was like really little.

00:49:47Marc:Yeah.

00:49:48Guest:Fred Ward.

00:49:48Guest:What is this?

00:49:49Marc:Yeah.

00:49:50Guest:Yeah.

00:49:50Marc:Yeah.

00:49:50Marc:That was a, that's a good movie.

00:49:52Marc:Yeah.

00:49:53Marc:That guy made some, was that a Kaufman movie?

00:49:55Marc:Same guy did the right stuff.

00:49:56Marc:I think like he's, he was pretty good director.

00:49:58Marc:What did, why, what's your favorite movie?

00:50:01Marc:Oh, man.

00:50:04Marc:You can't make one.

00:50:05Marc:It's very hard, you know, because I just, the Criterion channel wants me to, or no, not Criterion.

00:50:10Marc:The Closet?

00:50:10Marc:No, I did that.

00:50:12Marc:But American Cinematheque out here wants me to host a movie.

00:50:15Marc:Oh, cool.

00:50:16Marc:So I made this list.

00:50:17Marc:Yeah, what's on it?

00:50:18Marc:McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

00:50:20Marc:Okay.

00:50:21Marc:Which I think is great.

00:50:22Marc:Yeah.

00:50:22Marc:And then also another Altman movie, Nashville.

00:50:25Marc:I thought it would be great.

00:50:25Marc:Oh, my God.

00:50:26Marc:Nashville is so good.

00:50:27Marc:Right?

00:50:27Marc:Nashville is so good.

00:50:29Marc:For me, when I host those things, it's just the opportunity to see them on 35.

00:50:33Marc:Yeah.

00:50:34Marc:And have it really screened.

00:50:35Marc:The last time I did it last year, I did Dog Day Afternoon.

00:50:38Guest:Oh, hell yeah.

00:50:39Marc:And to see that as a movie.

00:50:41Marc:Oh, that's so cool.

00:50:42Marc:It was great.

00:50:43Marc:And then I added a couple other ones, like some Denzel movies.

00:50:46Marc:I get a little obsessed with Denzel sometimes.

00:50:48Marc:Which?

00:50:48Marc:Well, Training Day is great, but I don't like these kind of movies necessarily, but I can watch The Equalizers.

00:50:58Marc:Oh, really?

00:51:00Marc:I haven't seen that one.

00:51:01Marc:I'm not like a John Wick guy or a Bourne guy or whatever, but Denzel, full-on Denzel, when he can really do it, it's the fucking best.

00:51:09Guest:The Bone Collector.

00:51:10Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:51:11Guest:And the Pelham thing that we were talking about the other day.

00:51:14Marc:Taking a Pelham, the remake.

00:51:15Guest:Yeah, dude.

00:51:16Marc:Have you seen the original of that?

00:51:17Marc:I have seen the original.

00:51:18Marc:It's fucking great.

00:51:19Guest:Yeah, it's so, that whole premise, it's kind of, in my opinion, almost like a better speed, if you will.

00:51:25Guest:Totally.

00:51:25Guest:You know, because there's more stakes.

00:51:27Marc:Yeah, and Robert Shaw.

00:51:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:51:29Marc:The best.

00:51:30Marc:Totally.

00:51:30Marc:So you do My Vag, and then, like, what?

00:51:32Marc:Everything blows up?

00:51:34Yeah.

00:51:34Guest:No, it was kind of just like this weird, it ended up on BuzzFeed.

00:51:40Guest:I was still working at a vegan bodega in Greenpoint.

00:51:43Guest:Okay.

00:51:44Guest:And so then I came out with another one called NYC Bitches.

00:51:48Guest:Yeah.

00:51:49Guest:Because I think people just thought it was going to be one note.

00:51:52Guest:That did well.

00:51:53Guest:And then I got cast in Girl Code.

00:51:57Guest:Yeah.

00:51:57Guest:Which is an MTV show.

00:51:59Guest:Yeah.

00:52:00Guest:And then from there, I kind of... I didn't really have a manager.

00:52:04Guest:So I asked all the... I was asking people for recommendations.

00:52:07Guest:And I think a lot of comedians, especially at that time for that show, they don't like to really share their team.

00:52:13Guest:And there was one guy that kind of represented all the girls.

00:52:17Guest:And they were all huge stars.

00:52:19Guest:I was like, I don't know if I want to go to him.

00:52:21Guest:But Annie Letterman.

00:52:22Guest:Do you know Annie Letterman?

00:52:22Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:52:23Guest:Yeah.

00:52:23Guest:So she was on the show with me.

00:52:25Guest:And she...

00:52:26Guest:was like, she really did me a solid.

00:52:30Guest:She was like, you should talk to my manager.

00:52:32Guest:I think he can help you.

00:52:33Marc:Oh, really?

00:52:33Guest:And I'm still with him today.

00:52:35Guest:Who's that?

00:52:36Guest:His name's Itai.

00:52:37Guest:Itai Rice, yeah.

00:52:38Guest:Annie Letterman.

00:52:39Guest:Yeah, I see her all the time.

00:52:40Guest:I know Annie.

00:52:41Guest:That's my girl.

00:52:43Guest:She's the best.

00:52:44Guest:Yeah, she is literally the best.

00:52:45Guest:I was telling her the other day, Annie's literally the best.

00:52:48Guest:She's so cool.

00:52:49Guest:She's so deep.

00:52:50Guest:But I feel like I've seen multiple scenarios where she's just being chased out of a hall by five girls.

00:52:55Guest:They're like, what the fuck, Annie?

00:52:57Guest:Why would you say that?

00:52:58Guest:Because she has no filter.

00:53:01Guest:She has no filter, but she's one of the funniest people I've literally ever met.

00:53:04Marc:Yeah.

00:53:04Marc:She, I met her in, she opened for me like in Philly and I think she's from there, right?

00:53:09Marc:Yeah, she is.

00:53:10Marc:Yeah.

00:53:10Marc:So we were driving and her mom had some kind of business and we were driving around her mom's business car and I can't remember what it was.

00:53:17Marc:It was something, not eBay, but something in that zone.

00:53:20Marc:And I really took a liking to her and I, and I helped her get in the comedy store out here.

00:53:25Marc:So I see her all the time.

00:53:26Marc:I just did her podcast recently.

00:53:27Guest:No way.

00:53:28Marc:Yeah.

00:53:28Marc:Do you guys still hang out?

00:53:29Guest:I saw her a couple days ago.

00:53:31Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:53:31Marc:She is like one of those people where you're like, oh, here it comes.

00:53:34Marc:What am I going to get?

00:53:35Marc:Totally.

00:53:37Guest:She always says something you can't even be offended because it's like, that was so good.

00:53:41Marc:Yeah, just the sort of like intense lack of boundaries.

00:53:45Marc:Totally.

00:53:47Guest:And then the ability to laugh at herself, which I think is really important.

00:53:51Marc:Yeah, she's great.

00:53:53Marc:Now, wait, so when did you change your name from Nora to Awkwafina?

00:53:56Guest:In high school, technically, before the music video came out.

00:54:01Marc:How is that like a thing that one does in high school, change your name?

00:54:05Guest:Um, well, legally, uh, no, it wasn't just like a monitor.

00:54:09Guest:I was awkward and fine.

00:54:11Guest:It means, I mean, yeah.

00:54:12Marc:Oh, okay.

00:54:12Guest:Yeah.

00:54:13Marc:But, but it was based on, you know, how things are presented.

00:54:16Guest:Like imagine meeting someone named Neutrogena.

00:54:19Marc:Yeah.

00:54:19Guest:Right.

00:54:20Guest:You know, like, you know, you know, she was like, she was really pretty in high school.

00:54:23Marc:Yeah.

00:54:24Marc:Yeah.

00:54:25Marc:And it just stuck.

00:54:26Marc:Yeah.

00:54:27Marc:But do your friends call you Nora?

00:54:29Guest:Oh yeah.

00:54:29Marc:Yeah.

00:54:30Marc:It's not, it's a, is it like an alter ego or just a name?

00:54:33Guest:I think it used to be for, I think, like the narrative that was like being asked, like everyone always asked if it was that.

00:54:41Guest:But now I can see it for what it is.

00:54:43Guest:It's it's we're the same.

00:54:45Marc:Yeah.

00:54:45Marc:It's just a name and it's it's unique.

00:54:48Marc:Yeah.

00:54:48Marc:And it's singular.

00:54:49Marc:It's one name.

00:54:50Guest:Yeah.

00:54:50Guest:It's one name.

00:54:51Guest:People really don't know what they what is on the other side of that name.

00:54:54Guest:But yeah.

00:54:55Marc:So what happens once he gets a manager?

00:54:57Guest:I got a manager.

00:54:58Guest:He like kind of sorted out stuff with like that time.

00:55:02Guest:I was kind of it was the beginning days of like when I started like the idea of my show was started to, you know, kind of be.

00:55:10Guest:Yeah.

00:55:11Guest:And and then I you know, he asked me, like, what do you want to do?

00:55:13Guest:And I was like, yeah, I would love to.

00:55:14Guest:I want to be in movies.

00:55:16Guest:So we've got auditions and stuff like that.

00:55:19Marc:Yeah, and the show went on for a long time.

00:55:20Marc:Where did you put that show up?

00:55:22Marc:How did that work?

00:55:23Guest:It was Comedy Central.

00:55:25Marc:Oh, the Girl from Queens one?

00:55:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:27Marc:And that lasted for how many seasons?

00:55:29Guest:Three.

00:55:30Marc:So like 30 episodes or more?

00:55:33Guest:I think the third one we had about like seven or eight, maybe a couple less.

00:55:37Marc:And that was a hit?

00:55:39Yeah.

00:55:39Guest:I don't know if it was a hit.

00:55:41Guest:We did well some of the, what are those things called?

00:55:45Guest:The numbers?

00:55:46Marc:Yeah, yeah, the ratings.

00:55:48Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:48Guest:That was cool.

00:55:50Guest:I don't know.

00:55:50Guest:I mean, I always really appreciate people that, like, have actually watched it.

00:55:56Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:57Guest:Yeah.

00:55:57Marc:And so, but it must have been like at the time, what year was that?

00:56:02Guest:2019.

00:56:02Guest:Oh, really?

00:56:06Guest:Yeah.

00:56:07Guest:Maybe even before.

00:56:07Guest:I think we filmed the first one in like around the time I filmed The Farewell.

00:56:12Marc:Yeah.

00:56:12Marc:Oh, really?

00:56:13Marc:It's the same time?

00:56:14Guest:Yeah.

00:56:15Guest:Because it took so long for it to be greenlit.

00:56:17Marc:Yeah.

00:56:18Marc:Yeah.

00:56:19Marc:But did you find that you built an audience of...

00:56:24Marc:I mean, because it seems like if you have a point of view and it is, you know, you're coming from somewhat of an Asian perspective, but just being an Asian person.

00:56:34Marc:Right.

00:56:34Marc:That anytime there's representation, it's sort of like, oh, we have one.

00:56:37Marc:Yeah.

00:56:38Marc:And did you find that with your audience?

00:56:40Yeah.

00:56:41Guest:Um, I mean, yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:56:43Marc:Yeah.

00:56:43Guest:Because I think I also, you know, I'm not poised, you know what I mean?

00:56:47Guest:And so I think that if you're just like a kind of a, you know, just a, just a kind of regular degular Asian girl that like it, that's awkward and.

00:56:55Marc:And like crass in New York.

00:56:57Guest:Yeah.

00:56:57Guest:And that too.

00:56:58Marc:Yeah.

00:56:59Guest:I think that that was, that was cool.

00:57:00Guest:I think just to see that there's a flavor.

00:57:03Marc:Yeah.

00:57:03Marc:You know what I mean?

00:57:04Marc:Yeah.

00:57:04Guest:Yeah.

00:57:05Marc:And you never did stand up?

00:57:07Yeah.

00:57:07Guest:Never did stand-up.

00:57:08Guest:No, I was intimidated by stand-up.

00:57:10Marc:Yeah, because I bet you could draw a crowd, huh?

00:57:13Guest:Yeah, but I feel like at this point it would have to be some kind of fringe festival.

00:57:17Guest:Right, right.

00:57:18Marc:You'd have to do a whole one-man show, a one-person show.

00:57:20Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:21Guest:Elaine Stritch, something like that.

00:57:22Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:23Guest:An Asian-American Elaine Stritch, yeah.

00:57:25Marc:Well, it's probably a good story there.

00:57:27Marc:Yeah.

00:57:28Marc:You know, Margaret Cho used to do it.

00:57:30Guest:That, I mean, Margaret Cho, that's my, like, yeah, that was my representation, dude.

00:57:35Guest:I never seen an Asian woman on TV that spoke in an American accent.

00:57:39Marc:Yeah.

00:57:39Guest:Ever.

00:57:39Marc:Really?

00:57:40Marc:Yeah.

00:57:41Marc:Did you know her comedy?

00:57:42Guest:Yeah.

00:57:43Marc:Yeah, because she gets pretty dirty.

00:57:44Guest:She gets so dirty when she talks about her mom and stuff.

00:57:48Marc:It's still, after all these years, and I've known her for many, her mom is still hilarious.

00:57:53Guest:Oh, that's awesome.

00:57:53Guest:Yeah.

00:57:54Marc:Isn't it?

00:57:54Marc:When she does her mom.

00:57:56Yeah.

00:57:56Guest:Yeah.

00:57:57Guest:And her dad.

00:57:58Marc:Yeah.

00:57:58Guest:One of my favorite ones of hers, like when her dad punched his friend or something.

00:58:02Guest:I don't remember, but it was really funny.

00:58:04Marc:Yeah.

00:58:05Marc:She's great.

00:58:05Guest:Yeah.

00:58:06Marc:So the farewell, I didn't realize happened so early on.

00:58:08Marc:I mean, like, well, it's after Crazy Rich Asian.

00:58:11Marc:You'd done some stuff, but that was a deep part.

00:58:14Guest:Yeah.

00:58:15Marc:And then she got nominated for Golden Globe.

00:58:17Guest:I won.

00:58:17Marc:You won.

00:58:18Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:58:20Guest:You know what it was?

00:58:21Guest:That filming experience felt like documentary.

00:58:25Guest:It felt like it was me.

00:58:27Guest:I had lines.

00:58:28Guest:And so there are other roles that might be emotional where, you know, maybe there was an Asian-American nurse that like all, you know, that I have trouble with.

00:58:35Marc:Oh, really?

00:58:36Marc:It's really hard for me to step out.

00:58:37Marc:So it was really close to who you were.

00:58:39Guest:It felt really natural to play like an Asian-American girl that's negotiating between her family in China and her family in America.

00:58:47Marc:Yeah.

00:58:47Guest:Yeah.

00:58:48Marc:Have you been to China?

00:58:50Guest:Yeah.

00:58:50Guest:Yes.

00:58:51Marc:Where'd you go?

00:58:51Guest:We filmed that there.

00:58:52Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:58:53Marc:Yeah.

00:58:53Guest:Where her actual grandma lived.

00:58:55Guest:And then I was in Beijing...

00:58:58Guest:I did like a – my best friend was a Greek girl from – that went to NYU.

00:59:04Marc:Yeah.

00:59:05Guest:And she was going to go in for a summer and I went with her to Beijing.

00:59:08Marc:Yeah.

00:59:09Marc:Yeah.

00:59:09Marc:I was there once.

00:59:10Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:59:11Marc:Where?

00:59:12Marc:Right in Beijing.

00:59:13Guest:Nice.

00:59:13Guest:What did you think about it?

00:59:15Marc:It was – honestly?

00:59:17Mm-hmm.

00:59:18Marc:Well, as somebody, I obviously don't have roots there.

00:59:21Marc:But when I got there, it really felt like a different world.

00:59:25Marc:Yes, a thousand percent.

00:59:26Marc:And at the time, the air quality was bad.

00:59:30Marc:Yep, yep.

00:59:30Marc:And also, I noticed there's the things that made an impression on me, like there's so many different kinds of bicycle kind of vehicles around.

00:59:38Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:59:39Marc:And people were like getting shaves and haircuts in the street.

00:59:43Marc:I noticed that.

00:59:45Marc:Yeah.

00:59:45Marc:And there were just markets with all kinds of weird animals.

00:59:48Marc:It was completely a culture shock.

00:59:53Marc:I had no idea.

00:59:54Guest:The culture shock is so real when you're there and even weirder when you come back because what was alien to you before now feels so familiar that when you come back to the United States and there's

01:00:06Guest:It's really weird.

01:00:09Marc:Yeah.

01:00:09Marc:And also, like, because I went out, I saw the Forbidden City.

01:00:12Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:00:13Guest:Nice.

01:00:13Marc:Yeah.

01:00:14Guest:Forbidden City is great.

01:00:14Guest:And yeah.

01:00:15Marc:It's wild.

01:00:16Guest:Sometimes a little scary in there with the statues.

01:00:18Marc:Yeah.

01:00:19Marc:But I noticed maybe it was cause of the government now that it was a little dusty.

01:00:26Marc:Right.

01:00:26Marc:Like the upkeep on it was not essentially great, I thought.

01:00:30Guest:I actually, you know, I actually remember that when I went there.

01:00:33Guest:I was like, this is a huge grounds.

01:00:36Guest:And then you see like one person with a hat.

01:00:38Marc:Yeah.

01:00:39Guest:And it's like a broomstick with like three hairs on it.

01:00:42Marc:Yeah.

01:00:42Guest:And they're dusting.

01:00:44Marc:Yeah, no, that's true.

01:00:45Marc:They're kind of like, well, we got to leave it.

01:00:47Marc:But, you know, we don't want it to take too much power.

01:00:51Marc:And I almost died on the Great Wall, actually.

01:00:54Marc:Yeah.

01:00:54Guest:And the Great Wall is hard.

01:00:55Guest:It's a hard one.

01:00:56Marc:Well, they had this like ride.

01:01:01Marc:It was literally like a sled in a gutter where you could go up on it and you just get in it and you kind of just go.

01:01:08Marc:And I just did it.

01:01:10Marc:And there was no safety precautions.

01:01:11Marc:Like a loan?

01:01:12Marc:Well, I was with another comic because we were doing comedy there.

01:01:16Marc:But you go on the thing alone.

01:01:18Marc:And I didn't know how to operate it.

01:01:20Marc:There was only one thing to slow it down.

01:01:23Marc:And that's what was coming down at the bottom.

01:01:25Marc:They were yelling something, but it was in Chinese.

01:01:28Marc:And they were yelling for me to slow down, but I didn't know.

01:01:31Marc:I thought they were saying, go, go, go.

01:01:33Marc:And it just plowed into all these other families.

01:01:36Guest:Oh, no.

01:01:37Marc:It was fucked up.

01:01:38Guest:Like a bowling ball?

01:01:38Guest:Or were they on the same course and you just kind of like—

01:01:41Marc:Well, they, I was coming into the bottom and there was like these two cars with this family getting out and I just slammed right into them.

01:01:46Marc:Thank God nothing happened, but it was memorable.

01:01:49Guest:That is, yeah, that imagery is crazy.

01:01:52Marc:And I went to the place where Peking duck came from, but now it's Beijing duck.

01:01:56Marc:And that was pretty cool.

01:01:57Guest:Beijing is Peking.

01:01:57Guest:It's the same.

01:01:58Marc:Yeah, no, I know.

01:01:59Marc:I know, but they changed it.

01:02:00Marc:You know, they don't, you know, it's not called Peking duck.

01:02:02Guest:Oh yeah, Beijing Cal, yeah.

01:02:03Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:04Marc:It's so good.

01:02:05Marc:It is, isn't it?

01:02:06Marc:Yeah.

01:02:07Marc:Just like fat and pancakes?

01:02:08Marc:It's the sauce.

01:02:09Marc:Yeah, yeah, that sweet sauce.

01:02:11Guest:Yeah, that makes everything, yeah.

01:02:13Marc:But did you have family there or no?

01:02:15Guest:Yeah, I did.

01:02:16Guest:My grandma had like a cousin there.

01:02:18Marc:Oh.

01:02:18Guest:Yeah.

01:02:18Marc:Did you see them?

01:02:19Guest:I did, yeah.

01:02:20Guest:I stayed with them for a little bit too.

01:02:22Guest:That was crazy.

01:02:24Marc:Yeah?

01:02:24Guest:But yeah, it was really sweet.

01:02:26Guest:They were really sweet.

01:02:26Guest:Do you speak Chinese?

01:02:29Guest:Not well.

01:02:30Marc:No?

01:02:31Guest:Like I can understand a little bit.

01:02:32Guest:I can say a little bit.

01:02:33Marc:But your parents didn't speak either in the house?

01:02:35Guest:My dad doesn't really know it either.

01:02:37Guest:And my grandma just kind of spoke like shitty English to me.

01:02:40Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:41Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:42Marc:So, and you didn't do any, you never did any acting training or anything?

01:02:46Marc:No, yeah.

01:02:47Guest:Not at all.

01:02:48Marc:It's just kind of.

01:02:49Guest:I saw an acting coach once because I feel like my team or someone didn't really trust me that much to just go in like raw dog like that.

01:02:57Marc:Yeah.

01:02:58Marc:Yeah.

01:02:59Marc:But you were able to draw an emotional depth and hold it.

01:03:05Marc:I mean, that's kind of hard, but I guess you had some chops.

01:03:09Marc:I mean, it's weird because I kind of learned on set, too.

01:03:11Marc:You kind of figure it out.

01:03:13Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:14Guest:I really liked your show, dude.

01:03:15Marc:Oh, thank you very much.

01:03:16Guest:I really liked it.

01:03:16Guest:I think I went a couple seasons deep, too.

01:03:18Guest:Oh, thanks.

01:03:18Marc:Oh, thank you.

01:03:19Guest:I know Nora, another girl named Nora that was on it.

01:03:23Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:23Marc:She played my girlfriend.

01:03:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:25Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:26Guest:What's her last name again?

01:03:27Guest:Zahetner.

01:03:28Marc:Zahetner.

01:03:28Marc:You know her?

01:03:30Marc:Yeah.

01:03:30Marc:How is she?

01:03:31Marc:She's great.

01:03:32Marc:Oh, good, good.

01:03:32Marc:Yeah, she's great.

01:03:33Marc:Oh, good.

01:03:34Guest:Yeah.

01:03:34Marc:She was a little intense, but she did a good job.

01:03:38Marc:No, no, no.

01:03:38Marc:I love her.

01:03:39Marc:It was just because the character she was playing in my life, the real person was, you know, a bit much.

01:03:46Guest:Yeah.

01:03:47Guest:Oh, wow.

01:03:48Guest:Oh, wow.

01:03:49Guest:So that was a real person.

01:03:50Marc:Yes.

01:03:51Guest:Wow.

01:03:52Guest:Okay.

01:03:52Guest:Yeah.

01:03:52Guest:Well, where's she at?

01:03:54Marc:I don't know.

01:03:55Marc:Oh.

01:03:56Guest:It's like in a ditch.

01:03:57Marc:No, no, no.

01:03:58Marc:I've seen her.

01:03:59Marc:It was a difficult relationship, and I've seen her a couple times not too long ago.

01:04:05Marc:But we're not in touch, but she's okay.

01:04:07Guest:How do you show up in a relationship?

01:04:08Guest:I'm always interested in how stand-ups do that.

01:04:11Marc:In what way show up.

01:04:14Guest:Who are you?

01:04:15Guest:What roles do you play?

01:04:16Guest:What things do you do?

01:04:18Marc:Well, you know.

01:04:20Guest:Are you an avoidant?

01:04:21Marc:No.

01:04:22Marc:A little bit.

01:04:24Marc:Sometimes I think there was a period there where I was attracted to.

01:04:28Marc:I don't know if I call them toxic, but but somewhat mentally unstable situations.

01:04:33Marc:Sure.

01:04:33Marc:Like, you know, I think there is something about drama that keeps you hidden from real intimacy.

01:04:42Marc:And I think that.

01:04:43Marc:You know, you go through relationships like that that seem passionate, but they're really just, you know, crazy.

01:04:49Marc:And in those, you don't have to risk much because you're just yelling or crying all the time.

01:04:54Guest:Yeah, you keep more in, too.

01:04:55Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:04:56Marc:Yeah, you're not sharing yourself.

01:04:57Marc:Yeah, but you're just sharing these, like, raw emotions and reaction to things.

01:05:02Guest:When do you think that starts to get old and impossible?

01:05:05Marc:Yeah.

01:05:05Marc:Well, it starts to get exhausting.

01:05:07Marc:Right.

01:05:07Marc:And in some situations, it can feel kind of dangerous.

01:05:10Marc:Yeah.

01:05:11Guest:You're like bloated with cortisol.

01:05:12Guest:Yeah.

01:05:13Guest:Yeah.

01:05:13Guest:It's all the time.

01:05:14Guest:Yeah.

01:05:14Guest:You like jump scare all the time.

01:05:16Guest:You know what I mean?

01:05:16Guest:Yeah.

01:05:17Marc:And or else you're just shutting down.

01:05:19Marc:Totally.

01:05:19Marc:And you're just trying to like, you know, make it work.

01:05:22Guest:And then you get glimpses of like what your life would be like, you know, without something super toxic.

01:05:27Guest:And it seems so free, you know.

01:05:28Marc:Yeah.

01:05:29Marc:Yeah.

01:05:29Marc:But then, you know, five years later, you get out of it.

01:05:32Guest:No, no, for sure.

01:05:34Guest:15 years later, you know what I mean?

01:05:36Marc:You see glimpses at, you know, six months in.

01:05:39Marc:Yeah.

01:05:39Marc:And then like a decade later, you're like, I'm going to get out of this.

01:05:43Guest:I think next year I'm going to do that.

01:05:45Marc:Why?

01:05:45Marc:What about you?

01:05:47Guest:I don't know.

01:05:48Guest:I think that certain people make you anxious and other people make you avoidant.

01:05:52Marc:Yeah.

01:05:53Guest:I think it's a fine balance, I guess, of like.

01:05:56Marc:Oh, it's such a nightmare being like a creative, anxious, you know, nutty person.

01:06:01Guest:Yeah.

01:06:02Marc:You know.

01:06:02Guest:I think that it's also we're delusional because I think a part of us thinks that that is actually like really fun to be with.

01:06:07Marc:Yeah.

01:06:08Guest:But there's nothing fun about it.

01:06:09Marc:No, I'm getting old for that.

01:06:10Guest:Yeah.

01:06:11Guest:Well.

01:06:11Marc:Yeah.

01:06:11Marc:Are you in one now?

01:06:13Guest:Um, I mean, yeah, it's been, you know, been a while.

01:06:16Guest:Yeah.

01:06:17Guest:Yeah.

01:06:18Marc:How's it going?

01:06:19Guest:Yeah, it's good.

01:06:20Marc:Oh, good.

01:06:21Marc:Are you in one now?

01:06:22Marc:Yeah.

01:06:22Marc:Is it good?

01:06:23Marc:I'm doing what I can.

01:06:24Guest:Yeah.

01:06:25Guest:Yeah.

01:06:27Guest:What does that mean?

01:06:28Guest:What does that mean?

01:06:29Marc:There's no drama.

01:06:30Guest:Oh, because you don't.

01:06:31Guest:Yeah.

01:06:32Guest:So how do you not have a drama situation?

01:06:35Marc:Well, I've learned over the years that, you know, a lot of times you're reacting to things that aren't real.

01:06:41Marc:And a lot of times, you know, things are kind of triggered on purpose.

01:06:44Marc:So I've learned to kind of, you know, shut up sometimes.

01:06:48Marc:And, you know, if I'm feeling, you know, manipulated or put like or insulted or that sensitivity is fine.

01:06:59Marc:But you can actually just go like, you know, that hurt my feelings as opposed to go fuck yourself.

01:07:04Guest:What if, what if you say that hurt my feelings and then they say, go fuck yourself?

01:07:08Marc:What would you do?

01:07:09Marc:And you hurt my feelings twice and then I'm going to retreat pretty heavy.

01:07:13Marc:Right.

01:07:14Marc:Right.

01:07:14Marc:And add that to the list of reasons I have to leave.

01:07:17Guest:But then I won't.

01:07:18Marc:You know what I mean?

01:07:18Marc:Not for a while.

01:07:19Guest:It's a cycle.

01:07:20Marc:Yeah.

01:07:21Guest:So that's cool.

01:07:22Marc:You hosted Saturday Night Live?

01:07:23Guest:I did.

01:07:23Guest:Yeah, I did.

01:07:25Guest:Have you?

01:07:26Guest:No.

01:07:26Guest:What do you mean?

01:07:27Guest:I'm not at that level.

01:07:30Marc:Mark, are you fucking kidding me?

01:07:31Marc:Come on.

01:07:32Marc:Come on.

01:07:32Marc:No, I never was.

01:07:33Marc:I don't I don't think I have the cultural juice to do it.

01:07:37Marc:And I ended up interviewing Lauren and everything.

01:07:39Marc:You know, like I almost I auditioned for the show and I thought I got close and I was obsessed with Lauren forever.

01:07:45Marc:Oh, you auditioned for the show.

01:07:46Marc:Yeah.

01:07:47Marc:And I didn't get on it.

01:07:48Marc:And then like Lauren finally agreed to an interview and we did like over two days, this massive interview.

01:07:53Marc:And he explained to me the situation and.

01:07:55Guest:Oh, my God, I haven't listened to that.

01:07:57Marc:Yeah, and I got a sense of, like, who he was, and it was all kind of interesting.

01:08:00Marc:That's cool.

01:08:01Marc:Yeah, I think I'd like to do it.

01:08:03Marc:There's a lot of things, I don't know if you experience this, that I really think I should do or should have done.

01:08:09Marc:But if I really think about it, I don't know if I was...

01:08:13Marc:prepared to do it or whether I would do a good job at it you know you just have things like over time I've kind of realized my limitations in some way well you don't want them to also hamper well you don't want them to yeah like cause you to not take no no no I definitely take risks but I don't were you nervous about it SNL was like I mean

01:08:35Guest:It was a situation where the cast was like, I was fans of them for years.

01:08:41Marc:Which cast?

01:08:42Guest:It was like Kate McKinnon, Cecily Strong, Mikey Day.

01:08:46Marc:Oh, so not too long ago.

01:08:48Guest:Bowen was on it.

01:08:48Guest:Bowen actually, I don't think was a performer on it yet.

01:08:51Guest:He was a writer.

01:08:51Guest:Okay.

01:08:53Guest:Yeah, no, it was a cool it was a cool cast.

01:08:55Guest:And I was just so I felt so inadequate because growing up, I used to like love like SNL, Mad TV.

01:09:02Guest:Yeah, I love like the Sherry Oteri.

01:09:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:09:05Guest:And I had dreamed about being on that stage.

01:09:08Guest:And I knew that it was not like it's like I won't be that lucky to actually kill it.

01:09:14Guest:You know, like the opportunity kind of the luck stop there.

01:09:17Guest:Right.

01:09:17Guest:Or whatever.

01:09:18Guest:And I felt I just felt like I didn't have the devices.

01:09:22Guest:I like, you know, I wasn't ready.

01:09:23Guest:And I was so also just completely like it was hard for me to I felt I felt so nervous and like self-conscious.

01:09:32Marc:And how'd you do?

01:09:34Guest:I mean, you know, I think some people said it's a good episode.

01:09:37Guest:I mean, every time I watch it, I'm just like miming notes in my head.

01:09:40Guest:I'm like, turn around.

01:09:43Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:46Guest:Yeah, I don't know.

01:09:47Guest:I can't watch things and think like I truly killed that.

01:09:51Guest:No.

01:09:51Guest:Do you?

01:09:52Guest:I mean... You were killing the guitar yesterday, dude.

01:09:55Marc:I felt that then, and recently I watched some old clips of stuff of my acting from way back in small parts, and I was pretty hard on myself at the time, but I think I did okay.

01:10:06Marc:Yeah.

01:10:07Marc:You know, like I think when you...

01:10:09Marc:when it builds up to it and then you finally see it or you finally do it.

01:10:12Marc:Yeah.

01:10:13Marc:There, if you're of a certain type of person, there's no way you're going to feel good about it.

01:10:17Marc:But then like, if you watch it later, you're like, I was all right.

01:10:20Guest:Yeah.

01:10:20Marc:I was, I did the best I could.

01:10:23Marc:Yeah, for sure.

01:10:24Marc:Yeah.

01:10:24Marc:But it's very hard.

01:10:25Marc:Do you watch yourself and everything?

01:10:27Marc:Because you're like in the Rich Asians thing, you were hilarious.

01:10:31Marc:Oh, thank you.

01:10:32Marc:You must have felt like you nailed that.

01:10:34Guest:I mean, that one, that just felt, it just felt fun.

01:10:37Guest:There was no, like, you know, I felt, you know, I think it's also like if you, if like you feel comfortable around the director too.

01:10:42Guest:Yeah, totally.

01:10:43Guest:You can see when you're stilted and stuff like that.

01:10:45Guest:Sure, sure.

01:10:46Guest:Yeah.

01:10:47Guest:Yeah.

01:10:47Guest:I can, I'm not like one of those people that can't watch themselves because it's, I can watch it, have an objective opinion.

01:10:52Guest:It always leads to more self-hatred, but yeah.

01:10:54Marc:Right, so it's not objective.

01:10:56Yeah.

01:10:56Marc:It's very subjective.

01:10:57Marc:You're watching you.

01:10:58Marc:It starts subjective.

01:10:59Marc:You think you can be objective, but how the fuck can you be objective about watching yourself?

01:11:03Marc:I know.

01:11:03Marc:And then when you're in a movie, like, you know, you're trying to watch a movie, but then all you're focusing on is you.

01:11:08Marc:And not only you, but like something on your face.

01:11:11Marc:And you're just like, what even is that?

01:11:13Marc:Yeah, so I close your mouth.

01:11:14Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

01:11:16Marc:What are you doing with your hand?

01:11:17Marc:I know.

01:11:17Guest:You stupid.

01:11:18Guest:You ever see what your other hand's doing when you eat?

01:11:20Oh, my God.

01:11:20Guest:It's crazy.

01:11:21Guest:Well, you never think about that.

01:11:23Guest:And you shouldn't think about when you're acting.

01:11:24Guest:It's doing crazy shit, dude.

01:11:26Guest:It's so, it's like so bad.

01:11:27Guest:I'm like more unattracted to myself.

01:11:30Guest:It's always like, it's always like, you know, it's, yeah, it's always doing some weird shit.

01:11:34Marc:Yeah, but no one, you know, God forbid anyone notices it and we're going to notice it.

01:11:38Marc:But even like with the showman now, this stick show on Apple with Owen, like I think I did good with what I had to do.

01:11:45Marc:You're a great actor.

01:11:46Marc:Well, I appreciate that.

01:11:47Marc:But there are those moments because when you're watching it, you go back to the moment you did it.

01:11:53Marc:Like, you know, like in the last episode of Stick, which was just on last night.

01:11:57Marc:Oh, cool.

01:11:59Marc:You know, it's a big finale and everybody's got to hug each other, you know, on the golf course.

01:12:04Marc:And that day, Owen was so sick.

01:12:06Marc:Oh, no.

01:12:08Marc:And I don't know if he had COVID.

01:12:09Marc:I don't know what he had.

01:12:10Marc:Oh, no.

01:12:11Marc:But in those scenes, and I'm watching them, all I'm thinking is like, hold your breath, dude.

01:12:15Guest:Oh, man.

01:12:15Marc:Because I don't want to fucking get sick.

01:12:17Guest:Oh, no.

01:12:18Guest:Dude, that's actually so true.

01:12:20Guest:Sometimes the day speaks louder than your performance.

01:12:23Guest:To you.

01:12:24Guest:Yeah, to you.

01:12:25Guest:To you, yeah.

01:12:26Marc:Yeah.

01:12:26Marc:And I watched Owen, too.

01:12:27Marc:And I'm like, he's doing great.

01:12:28Marc:And he was like, you know, sweaty and not, you know, it was not a good day.

01:12:32Marc:And I swear to God, in the group hug, I was holding my fucking breath because I did not want to get sick.

01:12:41Guest:I don't even know if that's effective at that point in a hug.

01:12:46Guest:No, I know.

01:12:46Marc:Of course it's not.

01:12:47Marc:But it all played fine.

01:12:49Marc:Yeah, totally.

01:12:49Marc:But I knew that day.

01:12:52Marc:But I guess that's a testament to being an okay actor if you can pull it off.

01:12:55Marc:Yeah, I know.

01:12:56Marc:For sure.

01:12:56Marc:Yeah.

01:12:57Marc:But the hands and the way I stand and my choices, what are you going to do?

01:13:02Guest:Like in real life?

01:13:03Marc:Well, no, and when I watch myself, I'm like, why didn't you put a little more into this or that?

01:13:07Guest:Yeah, I'm giving myself notes, yeah.

01:13:09Marc:Yeah, but people like it.

01:13:10Marc:And when they say they like it, I've chosen to believe them.

01:13:13Guest:I don't, I'm so, I think the one thing that sucks about, you know, like in this career is like you literally don't know who is lying sometimes.

01:13:26Marc:Yeah, but if it's just general, you're not on social media anymore?

01:13:30No.

01:13:30Guest:Um, only I'm like Instagram, TikTok, you know, I. Yeah.

01:13:34Marc:So the Instagram thing, like if people email me, if people go out of their way to say, I really like this generally, you know, I'm like, okay, well that's who it's for.

01:13:44Marc:I'm going to let it be.

01:13:45Marc:But then, you know, out of 10 of those, there's the one like, oh, you suck.

01:13:48Marc:And you're like, oh,

01:13:49Marc:I knew it.

01:13:49Guest:Are we talking about like little clips or?

01:13:51Marc:Well, just in shows.

01:13:53Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:13:53Marc:People tend to reach out.

01:13:54Marc:And I shouldn't be, I'm not fully immersed in that, but I'll read stuff.

01:13:59Marc:Yeah.

01:13:59Marc:But then you start to realize like, well, they went out of their way.

01:14:02Guest:Yeah.

01:14:02Marc:To write.

01:14:04Marc:So that's good.

01:14:05Marc:Yeah.

01:14:06Marc:You know, and I know I did the best I could.

01:14:08Marc:So that's that.

01:14:08Marc:Yeah.

01:14:09Marc:Yeah.

01:14:09Marc:But you want to learn, too.

01:14:11Marc:You want to learn how to make different decisions.

01:14:14Marc:I think it is helpful to watch yourself.

01:14:16Guest:Yeah.

01:14:17Marc:To say, like, well, you know, pay attention to that the next time.

01:14:21Marc:So what are you working on now?

01:14:22Guest:Right now I'm actually, well, the bad guys thing.

01:14:26Guest:Well, that's press.

01:14:27Guest:I'm filming an Apple show right now.

01:14:30Guest:It's a docuseries about my great-grandpa's restaurant.

01:14:34Marc:Really?

01:14:34Marc:Yeah.

01:14:35Marc:Yeah.

01:14:36Marc:That's amazing.

01:14:37Marc:So you're going to produce it?

01:14:39Guest:I'm basically hosting it and I'm producing it, yeah.

01:14:43Guest:So you're digging into the history?

01:14:45Guest:Digging into the history.

01:14:48Guest:There's not much that was left of my great-grandpa's lums.

01:14:52Guest:So they found a bunch of customers and stuff.

01:14:54Marc:It's been really cool.

01:14:55Marc:Is there any napkins or that kind of stuff from any of it?

01:14:59Guest:There's matchboxes that you can get on eBay and an ashtray I have.

01:15:03Marc:Oh, that's cool.

01:15:04Marc:And how far into it are you?

01:15:06Guest:We did about halfway, I guess.

01:15:09Marc:Yeah.

01:15:09Guest:Yeah.

01:15:10Marc:And are you learning things?

01:15:11Guest:I'm learning how to cook, which is.

01:15:13Marc:Okay.

01:15:14Guest:Yeah.

01:15:14Guest:I learned how to.

01:15:16Marc:From their menu?

01:15:18Guest:Yeah.

01:15:19Guest:Yeah.

01:15:20Guest:Then it got like, you know, like roasted by everyone.

01:15:23Guest:Like the old customers were like, yeah, the original one was better and bigger, you know?

01:15:28Guest:Yeah.

01:15:29Guest:It's cool.

01:15:29Guest:Do you cook at all?

01:15:30Marc:Yeah, I do.

01:15:31Marc:I do cook.

01:15:32Marc:And I've been, like, plant-based for, like, two years.

01:15:34Marc:Oh, wow.

01:15:35Marc:So it's very specific, but I like it.

01:15:37Marc:Yeah.

01:15:38Marc:It makes you feel like you have some control over, you know, your basic life.

01:15:41Marc:You just eat beyond burgers?

01:15:42Marc:No, no.

01:15:43Marc:I'll cook, like, you know, a lot of chickpeas, rice.

01:15:45Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:15:46Marc:I do a lot of seaweed for some reason because I think that's important.

01:15:50Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:15:50Guest:Yeah, seaweed's great.

01:15:51Marc:Yeah.

01:15:52Marc:And, you know, different types of proteins, seitan.

01:15:57Marc:Love seitan.

01:15:58Marc:I do, too.

01:15:58Guest:Yeah, it's really good.

01:15:59Marc:And I think it's been around for thousands of years.

01:16:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:16:03Guest:I can't do like the vegan cheese, some vegan cheeses.

01:16:06Marc:Yeah, I don't know what it's made out of.

01:16:07Marc:It just feels like congealed oil.

01:16:09Guest:Yes, yeah.

01:16:10Marc:And I think that's what it is.

01:16:11Guest:It's like a butter.

01:16:12Marc:Yeah.

01:16:12Marc:Do you have any like big acting roles coming up?

01:16:16Guest:There's stuff that is kind of like in development.

01:16:21Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:23Marc:And you're officially a part of the Marvel Universe?

01:16:27Mm-hmm.

01:16:27Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:16:27Marc:That's pretty good, right?

01:16:29Guest:Yeah.

01:16:30Guest:Yeah.

01:16:30Guest:You're doing all right.

01:16:31Marc:It's cool.

01:16:31Guest:You could be in the Marvel Universe just by being in a Marvel movie, so that's fun.

01:16:34Marc:Yeah.

01:16:35Marc:But to some people, that's very important.

01:16:37Guest:Yeah, no, it's, yeah, right.

01:16:39Marc:It's a good time?

01:16:39Marc:You're having a good time?

01:16:40Guest:I love, I love that.

01:16:41Guest:I love Marvel.

01:16:42Marc:You do?

01:16:43Guest:Yeah, it's like filming with them is very utopic.

01:16:46Marc:Yeah?

01:16:46Guest:You know, we finish on time, great food.

01:16:48Guest:Yeah?

01:16:49Marc:Yeah.

01:16:50Marc:That's a very important thing on set, the food.

01:16:52Guest:Yeah, food.

01:16:53Guest:I know.

01:16:53Guest:When we were filming, it was so good.

01:16:55Marc:But when you have, like, a shitty caterer, you're like, I'm a...

01:16:58Guest:Yeah.

01:17:00Marc:And sometimes you don't even know what's like.

01:17:01Marc:It seems like it's healthy.

01:17:02Marc:And then you're like, why did I put on nine pounds?

01:17:05Marc:I've been eating green beans the whole time.

01:17:07Guest:I've been eating nerds and green beans.

01:17:10Guest:I live with the crafty and the and the catering kind of like bump heads.

01:17:15Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:17:16Marc:Yeah.

01:17:16Guest:Because I've been on a couple of sets where the where the crafty is like, you know, this is better.

01:17:19Guest:Like, you know, this is better than catering.

01:17:22Marc:Sometimes it is.

01:17:23Guest:Yeah.

01:17:23Guest:It's like take a quarter sandwich.

01:17:24Marc:Yeah.

01:17:25Marc:Sometimes it is.

01:17:26Guest:Yeah.

01:17:26Marc:Well, it's great talking to you.

01:17:27Guest:Great talking to you, Mark.

01:17:28Guest:Thanks for having me.

01:17:28Guest:It was fun, yeah.

01:17:29Guest:Yeah.

01:17:35Marc:There you go.

01:17:35Marc:That was us getting to know each other.

01:17:37Marc:She's an interesting person.

01:17:40Marc:Bad Guys 2, again, is in theaters tomorrow, August 1st.

01:17:43Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.

01:17:48Marc:All right, people, my special Mark Maron Panicked premieres on HBO tomorrow, streaming on HBO Max.

01:17:54Marc:You can hear me talk about how the special went on a full Maron bonus episode from back in May.

01:17:59Marc:Like I get off and there's this weird feeling of like embarrassment.

01:18:03Marc:Like, you know, like, you know, like I why do I even share that part of myself, you know, in certain bits?

01:18:10Marc:You know, why why why is that the only place I can go?

01:18:12Marc:There's a feeling of of exposure that that's uncomfortable and I don't know how else to do it.

01:18:19Marc:And I still feel that with this material, even after you did it so many times.

01:18:23Marc:Sure.

01:18:23Marc:I did.

01:18:24Marc:I did, you know, in terms of knowing that it's now going to be.

01:18:27Marc:You know, you're almost anonymous out there in Portsmouth or Skokie.

01:18:32Marc:Right.

01:18:32Marc:You know, or wherever.

01:18:34Marc:You know, you go out and do a theater in a town.

01:18:36Marc:It's like, you know, that show ends there.

01:18:39Marc:Right.

01:18:39Marc:But this was the official coming out party of the babysitter bit, basically.

01:18:44Marc:That's right.

01:18:44Marc:Yeah.

01:18:45Marc:And I don't know if that one, does that one embarrass me?

01:18:47Marc:I don't know.

01:18:48Marc:It's just the way I do it.

01:18:50Marc:You know, there's a vulnerability to it and a feeling of exposure.

01:18:55Yeah.

01:18:55Marc:that once I know it's going to be there for everyone to find,

01:19:01Marc:and out there for, I would assume, the biggest audience that will ever see it collectively, you know, I feel like, you know, like, you know, why do I owe my audience this or why do I do this to myself?

01:19:13Marc:I don't know where else to draw from, you know.

01:19:16Marc:You know, that babysitter bit sort of evolved out of, you know, knowing that trauma therapy was, you know, a thing and that I had done it in dealing with Lynn and some other stuff.

01:19:28Marc:And that story, it was funny because I saw my brother afterwards,

01:19:31Marc:I said, you okay with everything now that it's done?

01:19:35Marc:And I didn't.

01:19:39Marc:To get that episode in every bonus episode we do twice a week, sign up for the full Marin.

01:19:44Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus.

01:19:51Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by a cast.

01:19:55Marc:And because I'm out of town, we usually do something from the vault, but I'm actually going to share with you the theme for my HBO special, Mark Maron Panicked, premiering tomorrow on HBO and HBO Max.

01:20:06Marc:I recorded this with Luke Paquin, Dan Horn, Richard Gowan.

01:20:10Marc:It was produced by Paige Stark, and we just got a riff going.