Episode 1644 - Sarah Silverman
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How's everyone holding up?
Marc:Sarah Silverman is back on the show today.
Marc:Have not talked to her in a long time.
Marc:I've known her forever.
Marc:She's been on the show a few times, a live one back in 2009, a full talk in 2010, a short talk in 2016.
Marc:Regroup.
Marc:So many people I've known for so long.
Marc:She's got a Netflix special coming out this week called Sarah Silverman Postmortem.
Marc:So I will chat with her about that.
Marc:A little bit of grief talk, a little bit of Jew talk.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But anyway, over the weekend.
Marc:We shot some promos for The Bad Guys 2, which I guess I think opens in August.
Marc:The movie's going to be good.
Marc:If you like that kind of animation stuff, this thing moves.
Marc:It's got a good clip to it.
Marc:But we were over at Universal.
Marc:It's me and Rockwell, Natasha Jones, Azzy Bates, Anthony Ramos, Danielle Brooks, Maria Bakalova.
Marc:We were all there.
Marc:And Aquafina, Nora, Craig Robinson, too, for a day or two.
Marc:And we're shooting all these silly little pieces for this and that.
Marc:And Rockwell's like, let's go on a ride.
Marc:let's go on a ride we're right here it's a universal theme parks right there and i'm like all right let's go they couldn't make it happen the first day and then yesterday they made it happen and uh i don't know you know i felt pretty excited about it and and i forget that you know i'm not a huge ride guy i can i can live without it
Marc:But we were in it and I was in it and I was like, let's do it.
Marc:They walked us through a back door into the park so we could go on the mummy ride.
Marc:And somehow in my mind, I thought like, yeah, man, I kind of like roller coasters and I don't I don't know where that came from.
Marc:I had a wife who was very into roller coasters, so I did some roller coaster riding when I was with Mishnah.
Marc:I remember being excited that I did it, that I got through it, and that it was exciting enough.
Marc:But somehow that switched in my head over decades to, no, I like roller coasters.
Marc:So it's not even that much of a roller coaster.
Marc:It's just a lot of jerking around and it's fast.
Marc:But it turns out I don't love it.
Marc:I don't love it.
Marc:It was me, Natasha, Leon, and Rockwell went on the mummy ride.
Marc:And yeah, I got off and there was one drop in there where it fucking made me queasy for the rest of the goddamn day.
Marc:I didn't even see it coming.
Marc:I'm not like a guy who gets sick of things, but boy, there's one drop there.
Marc:And I was like, oh my God, I'm, I'm, I'm sweaty now.
Marc:And it jerks you around a bit.
Marc:I got a little nervous.
Marc:Like there was the first jerk.
Marc:I'm like, should I loosen my body?
Marc:Should I tighten it?
Marc:Am I going to, am I going to get hurt in here?
Marc:Am I going to sprain a neck mine?
Marc:But it goes so quick.
Marc:And then you come up on a wall really fast and then it goes backwards and
Marc:And, you know, Natasha was like, I think we should be doing this every morning.
Marc:And there was part of me that thought like, yeah, I guess I feel, I don't know, engaged, but not great.
Marc:I think it's a good ride.
Marc:I just don't know.
Marc:I don't know if it's for me because I can feel jerked around and nauseous.
Marc:you know, just moving through my day.
Marc:It's usually mental.
Marc:I get mentally jerked around.
Marc:I hit walls all the time.
Marc:I go backwards.
Marc:I go side to side.
Marc:The bottom falls out on me every day.
Marc:But it's all internal.
Marc:So I'm glad we did it.
Marc:Seems like a fun ride.
Marc:I just think that at age 61 here, I can say with a certain amount of confidence that I don't need to go on another roller coaster.
Marc:I remember going to Coney Island and riding that old rickety fucking cyclone.
Marc:And that's a very specific thing.
Marc:It's a small roller coaster, but there's something about it.
Marc:Just maybe because it's old.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's a very manageable roller coaster, but your fucking body is sore afterwards.
Marc:And I don't know how much research they put into this, but there was something about that old cyclone where you got a little nervous that it would fall off the rails and you could just feel the woodenness of it and the kind of looseness of the wheels on the old rails.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the way it jerks you around doesn't seem smooth or on purpose.
Marc:Like this one, the mummy, that was clearly all intentional.
Marc:They got to really pack it in because the ride lasts about 40 seconds.
Marc:But yeah, not for me.
Marc:I don't know why I feel like declaring that, but I'm saying it here.
Marc:I'm saying it out loud.
Marc:I may be done with roller coasters, but I think if you like the roller coaster situation, you'll enjoy it.
Marc:I don't even need to plug it.
Marc:Still a little queasy.
Marc:It was yesterday.
Marc:So I, you know, I shot the special a week and a half ago.
Marc:And there was part of me that was kind of like, oh, I'm going to take a little time, man.
Marc:I'm going to get off the road, take a break from comedy.
Marc:But needless to say, I was back at the comedy store last weekend.
Marc:And I don't know, you know, something happened.
Marc:Something happened.
Marc:In the special, well, you guys have known me a long time.
Marc:There's always some part of me before I go on stage at a comedy club where it's not my show, but a show.
Marc:There's some part of me that thinks I don't know how to do it or that I haven't been doing it all my life or that somehow or another I'm just not going to do well or that the audience is not going to like me.
Marc:It just never goes away.
Marc:And it's so annoying.
Marc:And I think, again, what I was talking about the last week about this medicine I'm on giving me a little space to assess these old patterns, these psychological habits.
Marc:It's interesting, the ones that are just totally unfounded and kind of just a...
Marc:anxious habit that I do to continue to be in anxiety so I don't ever give myself a break.
Marc:But the other night, the store, it was packed, man.
Marc:It was packed.
Marc:Both rooms were packed.
Marc:The place is great.
Marc:It's always great.
Marc:It's the fucking comedy store.
Marc:And I went back because it's part of my social life.
Marc:I like to see other comics.
Marc:I like to ground myself at the store.
Marc:I feel part of that place.
Marc:It's part of my community.
Marc:But it was interesting because I was backstage in the main room and they were doing it differently.
Marc:It was one continuous show, like the original room, where it's just like 15 acts, 12 or 15 acts.
Marc:I had a nine o'clock spot.
Marc:I thought it usually starts at like eight.
Marc:So I'm like, I'm going fourth.
Marc:And it started at like 7.30, so now I'm going seventh.
Marc:And it's literally packed.
Marc:And that room packed is like 400 people.
Marc:And there's some big acts doing big, big stuff.
Marc:Who was on?
Marc:I think Eliza was on, Harlan Williams, and Whitney, and...
Marc:Then some, I can't remember who opened, but it was like, there's a tone to comedy.
Marc:Like, I don't, I'm not the guy, I don't like a party atmosphere when I do comedy.
Marc:I like some, I like it to be settled.
Marc:I like it to be focused.
Marc:I don't, I don't like, I don't need to like, I don't like it like, oh, here we go.
Marc:You guys ready?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just like, just take it down a fucking notch.
Marc:So I'm breaking my brain backstage.
Marc:I'm like, it's packed.
Marc:They're having a good time.
Marc:They've seen like nine other people.
Marc:They're all full of the juice.
Marc:And I'm going to go up there and I'm going to bring them down, I thought.
Marc:But it was kind of interesting because I've been...
Marc:running this stuff so much.
Marc:And there's this chunk of material, and you've heard it on here in different forums, where there's this idea like, you know, just go out there and have a good time.
Marc:It's like, what?
Marc:When has it ever been a good time?
Marc:I mean, I like when I do well, but I don't consider it a good time.
Marc:So I went on after Whitney and I got out there.
Marc:And look, I'm going to talk about politics a little bit.
Marc:And I realize, and you'll see this in the special too, that there is a different tone to it sometimes.
Marc:But then at some point, I'm just, you know, you'll watch it in the special.
Marc:I'm like, I just want to be entertaining.
Marc:Because I think we need entertainment.
Marc:Now that I've said my piece about how I see the world and what's happening, how about some entertainment?
Marc:And I do these two bits, that full piece about evacuating the fires with my cats.
Marc:And I went out there, and I don't know what the fuck I'm thinking or why I always assume that I'm going to be at odds.
Marc:with the audience or at odds with people or whatever, or why I feel like I'm the outsider.
Marc:It's just, it's not true.
Marc:Somebody tell my brain, it's not true.
Marc:But the reason I'm talking about this and I'm happy that I notice it and I don't take it for granted is I just went out there and killed so fucking hard.
Marc:And I guess I did have a good time because I didn't expect it.
Marc:I thought like I'd have half the house with me on the politics and then, you know, I'd be, you know, kind of.
Marc:You know, kind of trying to get out of that.
Marc:But that shit killed.
Marc:Everybody knows what's going on.
Marc:Everyone's fucking nervous.
Marc:Everybody knows it's fucked up of all, you know, all right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat.
Marc:After a certain point, there's no way to deny it's fucked up.
Marc:And if you really think it's going great, there's something wrong with you.
Marc:You're you're you're not a great person.
Marc:If you're seeing the amount of people that are scared or in pain or being denied their rights or their voice or ripped out of their homes.
Marc:If that's something that you you think is like makes this country what it is and it's there's something wrong with you.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:It just it landed in a way that was so explosive.
Marc:And then I did the cat piece and it's just huge.
Marc:It was just it was felt good to kill that fucking heart and to know that, you know, in my fucking bones already that I can do that.
Marc:And then there's part of me that thinks like, well, why don't you just do that all the time?
Marc:Why do you choose to do material sometimes that is provocative or challenging?
Marc:And and then I guess the answer to that is, is like, well, you know, I don't I don't want it to be easy for him.
Marc:I don't want to.
Marc:What am I supposed to do?
Marc:Just make him laugh.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:Let's take it to the edge.
Marc:See how far we can go and still get those laughs.
Marc:Dig around in there.
Marc:Let's go into the tunnel.
Marc:See if we can get a laugh down there in the dark place.
Marc:But that's just me.
Marc:But I can lighten it up.
Marc:I can just be funny.
Marc:And it was exciting to do that.
Marc:All right, look, you guys.
Marc:Sarah's here, and I think I've known her since she was like 18 or 19 years old, and now we're grown people, and it was kind of nice to have a grown-up conversation with Sarah Silverman.
Marc:Postmortem, her new special premieres on Netflix tomorrow, May 20th, and it's very touching.
Marc:It's very sweet.
Marc:It's about the passing of her stepmom and her father within months of each other, but she really kind of,
Marc:Kind of keeps the balance.
Marc:It's really something.
Marc:All right, this is me and Sarah.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:Too loud?
Guest:No, I don't hear anything.
Marc:No, really?
Marc:Why is that happening?
Guest:Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.
Guest:Oh, there she is.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Are you fucking deaf?
Guest:I actually am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I have hearing aids I never wear.
Guest:Are you serious?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How long has that been going on for?
Guest:Years that my hearing was shitty, and I just kept going, what, what?
Guest:And people around me were like, go fucking get your hearing test.
Marc:But like from when you were a kid?
Guest:No, from like, no, like five years ago or something.
Marc:You just started losing your hearing?
Guest:So I got hearing aids like a couple years ago.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I never wear them, but I'll bring them to a party or an event where it's a lot of noise.
Yeah.
Guest:And it's incredible.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They work.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you can't see them.
Guest:You really can't see them.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:I mean, yeah.
Marc:So what's going on?
Marc:Are we just aging?
Marc:Is this just what's happening?
Guest:Yeah, we're just aging.
Guest:I mean, there's not a reason for it.
Guest:I wasn't a drummer in a rock band or anything.
Marc:It wasn't all those loud shows you were doing?
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:Nothing.
Guest:I mean, there's not a good, oh, I'm always near amps.
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Guest:No, my body is dying.
Guest:My body is slowly stopping.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:And, you know, I finally did it because...
Guest:Well, I was driving people around me crazy.
Guest:And then I read something that said, or no, you know who told me this?
Guest:Rivers.
Guest:Mark Rivers has them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He does.
Marc:Well, he's, you know.
Guest:Well, he has reasons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, I think he told me this, but I saw an article about it, too, where people who have hearing loss, untreated hearing loss.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:easily get dementia.
Guest:But they're saying that about fucking everything.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Like everything.
Guest:And I asked the hearing lady, the audiologist, rather, about it, and she said it's not something that happens in the brain.
Guest:It's just because, and I totally relate to this, when you can't hear well, you just avoid...
Guest:loud, noisy places where you can't fucking hear anything.
Guest:I've become my Nana, where I'm like, what?
Guest:And they repeat it, and I go, what?
Guest:And they say it again, and I still don't hear it, so I just go, oh, haha.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he still didn't hear it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:You just kind of agree and smile.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what's that got to do with dementia?
Marc:Did you ask the hearing doctor?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Because your brain doesn't get the stimulus?
Guest:Yeah, because you just stop socializing.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because my dad has it.
Marc:And he hasn't socialized with anybody.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And like his wife, I worry about it all the time because now it's just gotten to this point where...
Marc:She's like she's annoyed, but she's taking care of him.
Marc:But so that all the dialogue he has is her going like, just use the spoon.
Marc:Just pick up this.
Marc:It's not hostile, but it's just.
Guest:Well, that's the thing is when you can't hear and you keep saying what?
Guest:Eventually, your loved one goes, I said, do you want salad?
Guest:And then you're like.
Guest:You don't have to have that tone with me.
Guest:I'm just a human being.
Marc:Yeah, not wearing their hearing aids.
Marc:Yeah, but I think that because my dad doesn't socialize, he's just always been kind of lost in his head.
Marc:And now that's become a more confusing place, I think, with a lot of silence.
Marc:But I wonder if he, like, I don't know.
Marc:It seems like I watched your special.
Guest:You did?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Guest:What?
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Post-mortem.
Marc:It was very good.
Marc:As somebody who tried to deal with grief in a comedic way, it's not easy to do it.
Marc:But I think it was... Because it's scary.
Guest:You don't want it to turn into, like, for me, and I'm sure for you, you don't want it to turn into, like, a one-person show.
Guest:You want it to be a stand-up set.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's... But, yeah, that's why I only made it a section.
Marc:You know, but the thing is, when you deal with your parents, it seemed like...
Marc:First of all, you had not a lot of time with your stepmom or I guess with your father, either from knowing they were dying to them dying.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it was a few months to where you had time to adjust, show up and have the conversations that a lot of people regret not having.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, totally.
Marc:And there's no way that's not going to be hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Marc:But there is that fear like, well, how much because when I was trying to run that stuff and I do everything much too soon in terms of like, I, you know, right after she passed away, you know, I did it.
Marc:I talked about it on the show, but I was inconsolable.
Marc:And then but I was going on stage trying to find it because I don't do it the way I don't write jokes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you need the audience there.
Marc:Yeah, talk it through.
Marc:And there were times where I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep it together.
Marc:Did you have that?
Marc:No.
Guest:I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't.
Marc:I think there's a... You had closure.
Guest:I really had closure.
Guest:And I think I cried so much while it was happening because it was just so much.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was just... That, like, once they were gone, it was...
Guest:I ache for them.
Guest:I miss them so much, but it was a massive relief in many ways as well.
Guest:Especially my stepmother, who just watching her suffer was awful, and she loved life so much.
Guest:My dad was just like, pretty much, he died of kidney failure, but it was pretty much of a broken heart.
Guest:He could have probably fought it, gotten better, but he did not want to.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Janice, yeah.
Marc:That to me is the most revealing and funniest thing
Marc:moment of the special, oddly.
Guest:When I'm listening to the WhatsApp?
Marc:No, the moment where, you know, they give her the diagnosis and your father goes, I'm alone!
Guest:That's what I'm talking about.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We would have them record on their iPhones doctor's appointments as they got older so that we could listen back.
Guest:We had a family WhatsApp chain and then we could listen back and make sure everything was taken care of and when, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so you heard that second, like, from the WhatsApp?
Guest:I'm listening to them in their doctor's appointment.
Guest:And the doctor, the worst thing you could hear, you know, Janice, I'm so sorry, you have stage four pancreatic cancer.
Guest:And you just hear him go, I'm alone!
Guest:I'm a widow!
Guest:I'm alone.
Guest:Fucking psychopath.
Guest:And it's widower, of course, but, you know.
Marc:Yeah, but it's like, there's something about...
Marc:A particular type of personality that, you know, like my father's like, you know, a cantankerous Jew as well.
Marc:And when his years ago, his wife was diagnosed with, you know, breast cancer and she's okay now.
Marc:But when, when she was diagnosed, I talked to my father.
Marc:He goes, he says, I go, what's wrong?
Marc:He goes, well, you know, Rosie, we just found out Rosie has breast cancer.
Marc:I said, Jesus, I'm sorry, dad.
Marc:He goes, yeah, I got bad luck.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's—and, of course, screaming, I'm alone, is just wild narcissism.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's just unbelievable.
Guest:And he was a total narcissist, but it was mostly adorable.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that was, like, very revealing and insane, just insane.
Marc:Well, it's adorable because it's a naturally funny thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the reality of it is, like, it's horribly insensitive and weird.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he was losing his caretaker.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:He was losing everything.
Marc:Yeah, his everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, the point to go to that lack of sensitivity innately, you know, when she's diagnosed is so crazy.
Guest:Well, the plan with all of us was always that he would go first, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I feel guilty because I remember yelling at him once.
Guest:He was being a fucking asshole to her.
Guest:And...
Guest:My dad was a delight, but he, you know, he could be an asshole to her.
Guest:And I was just like, you know, anything you say to her, just know we will hear about it, you know.
Guest:And I said, you act like, you know, all she's doing is trying to help you stay well.
Guest:And you know what's going to happen?
Guest:She's going to die first because you're killing her, you know.
Guest:And then I felt bad because she did.
Yeah.
Marc:You don't have to feel bad.
Marc:It's all over now.
Marc:It's all done.
Marc:There's nothing that can be done.
Marc:But how long after they passed away or that he passed away did you start doing that material?
Marc:Where were you working it out?
Guest:Well, immediately that I was talking about it because...
Guest:As they were dying, my last special came out, and I never do specials.
Guest:I've done— Which one was that?
Guest:This is my fifth special of my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was called Someone You Love.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:What was that about?
Guest:It was just a stand-up special about lots of things.
Guest:You know, this is the only time I have, like, a topic.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so my special came out as they were dying, so I was at zero.
Marc:I saw that one.
Guest:You know, I was at zero.
Guest:So when I went back to doing stand-up after they died, I was, I had nothing.
Guest:And so I just started, that's all I talked about.
Guest:You know, I go, I have fucking nothing.
Guest:You know, when you're at Lager and you're starting over and you're just like, I don't, I have nothing.
Guest:And I just used my, what I said at his, my dad's eulogy, because there were so many funny stories.
Marc:To sort of start, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But also, it feels like, you know, in terms of a genuine story,
Marc:this is the first time you've really talked about yourself.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, you know, you're actually engaging with the reality of how you feel about your parents, your family.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, their passing, your childhood on some level, your relationship with all of your, you know, with your mom and her husband and then your dad and his wife.
Marc:It all comes into play.
Marc:And that seems like it's the first time that you've actually revealed yourself that way.
Guest:Oh, yeah, where I'm not, like, lying or making up a joke or saying something terrible.
Marc:Yeah, or starting something that sounds, you know, like, oh, this is about her.
Marc:Oh, no, it's not.
Marc:It's about cock.
Guest:Yeah, I guess you're right.
Guest:I'm kind of honest and sincere in it.
Guest:But I get worried to say that because—
Guest:You know, I guess I'm here to sell my special.
Guest:And I always worry that people are going to be like, don't worry.
Marc:My audience, are you kidding?
Marc:Sounds like homework.
Marc:My audience, they're like, oh, bring it.
Marc:Honest, sincere, vulnerable, sad.
Marc:Yeah, that's what we live for.
Marc:Yeah, but like that insecurity is so it's kind of weird.
Marc:because we're organically funny people.
Marc:I mean, there's plenty of people in our business where you're like, you meet them way back and you're like, there's nothing funny about that person.
Marc:And they become funny because they have a certain sense of commitment.
Marc:It's very weird because I've known you since you started and when I was only a few years in.
Marc:But there are peers of ours where I used to watch people that turned into funny people struggle.
Yeah.
Marc:But the vulnerability of it, I mean, you didn't feel any shift from... I know there are points in the special where you'll tell a real story and then you'll throw a joke in because you know you need to kind of lighten it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you make light of that.
Marc:It seems like there's a self-awareness to it all that you know you're talking about real stuff.
Marc:And it's sweet.
Marc:But you balance it and you found the humor in that real stuff.
Marc:Did it feel...
Marc:Different?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it felt different.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, also, I'm not like...
Guest:I'm different.
Guest:I know.
Guest:You know, I mean, so like, yeah, my first couple specials were like way more kind of hardcore.
Guest:Jokes.
Guest:Character-ish, you know, like horrible person saying something sweet, you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You had a good sense of.
Guest:The other way around.
Guest:Sweet person saying something horrible.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:That was your bit.
Guest:Yeah, it was like my thing.
Guest:And then I just, you know, as you grow and you change and you learn shit and you can't unring bells, you know.
Marc:It's kind of interesting, though, because that was your bit for a long time.
Marc:And on some level, it still is.
Marc:It's still the way you think in terms of joke writing, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, joke writing.
Marc:structure I guess but but since we've all been alive for as long as we've been alive and I think you know talking freely on your podcast I don't know how often you do it but engaging in that way where you can sort of work the muscles of who you are in terms of an empathetic person and helping other people and you know listening to other people that you realize there's this whole full part of yourself that can have confidence on stage well yeah yeah right right yeah yeah
Guest:We have so many facets of ourselves, all people I'm talking about.
Guest:And I was just thinking, it's like, who am I going to be?
Guest:Am I going to be bully, jackass, you know, Sarah, like makes fun of her friends?
Guest:Or am I going to be like sincere?
Marc:It's not weird.
Guest:You know, therapy, Sarah.
Guest:But like, you know, we're all different people depending on who we're sitting with.
Marc:We have broad personalities.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Expansive.
Marc:But, you know, but we, not so much me, but certainly, like, in terms of your decision to do the comedy you did, which was just natural.
Marc:But, I mean, like, was there a point where you were like, man, I'm tired of this character I'm doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know that it's like sitting and consciously thinking about.
Guest:I never really plan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I'm going to be like this or.
Marc:Which is what you were.
Marc:And then you had to kind of feed it.
Guest:But, yeah, I mean, I really loved kind of doing that character that was me but was like an arrogant, ignorant.
Marc:Yeah, and dirty.
Guest:Asshole, you know, and surprise, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:shock humor but it's like how do you continue shock humor if it's what they expect if what they expect is to be shocked yeah they're just waiting for it where's it going then where's it going and then you have to just then you're trying to be this thing for an audience and then you I thankfully realized like comedy dies in the second guessing of what your audience wants to see like that yeah yeah
Guest:And, you know, there's always going to be people that fall off and new people or some people kind of grow with you.
Guest:But there's always the people that remember when she was funny.
Guest:And I'm like, yes, I do.
Guest:You know, but like.
Marc:You got so mad at me last time when I told you the joke that I liked that I remember.
Marc:You kind of got mad at me.
Marc:What?
Marc:It was just like because it was like one of your first jokes.
Marc:And I was like, my favorite joke of yours is this one.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God.
Marc:I've done four specials.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But, yeah, like doing that character.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I loved doing it, and I had the Sarah Silverman program where I was like really got to play it out and be a huge asshole.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I loved it.
Guest:And, of course, I changed and whatever.
Guest:I grew up and everything, and my comedy kind of stayed the same in some ways, changed in some ways, whatever.
Guest:I mean, I think if you become beholden to some character you got, like, famous with, you become such a caricature of yourself.
Guest:It's like you'll sell tickets, but it's sad in my view.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, but it can be sad, but that's what people do.
Marc:They do the voice or they do the thing.
Marc:Until they're 80.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then they don't even know when they're losing relevance anymore because all the people that come are people that were there 20 years ago.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's no like new people.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I always think of I love Joan Rivers who like if you really look she reinvented herself so many times.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:She did all kinds of shit.
Marc:I mean wild.
Marc:I was in bed with her doing a show.
Guest:In bed with Joan.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I love that she said, like, she didn't really feel like she came into her... Like, she found herself stand-up-wise until she was in her 70s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, that's so cool.
Guest:Like, I want to be able to look forward to... We're comics.
Guest:There's... They're every age.
Guest:Every, you know... Sure.
Marc:I mean, like, I... You know, I think... I feel like for me...
Marc:You know, like everything I'm doing is just this ongoing conversation as I, you know, kind of expand my perception of the world.
Marc:Like it's all one conversation, you know, because there are times where I'm doing stand up and I'm like, I'm just I've said this same thing nine different ways over, you know, two albums and four specials.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:It's basically like, but that's not great.
Marc:But I like to add a little part, a little more to it.
Marc:But like I fester about the same shit.
Guest:But everything is about the same shit.
Guest:Everything there is, you know?
Guest:That's what art—that's why you can look at like a painting of a red square and see something different and get something new out of it depending on what's been happening in your life and the world around you and—
Marc:Only if it's a really deep red square.
Marc:Like you have to believe the guy who made the red square was a genius.
Guest:You know, Larry Charles?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We wrote two pilots together years ago.
Guest:It was so fun and I loved being with him.
Guest:And I remember going like, what's a fucking red square?
Guest:If you paint a red square, I could paint a red square.
Guest:He goes, yeah, but you didn't.
Guest:This guy did.
Guest:You know, and I always thought that was interesting, you know.
Guest:It's true.
Marc:Well, I think, you know, great art, like, you know, as you get older, even music and stuff, it hits you a different way.
Marc:Even stuff that you liked when you were a kid, you're like, why do I still like that?
Marc:And you're like, oh, I don't even understand it then.
Guest:I mean, this is so stupid.
Guest:But, you know, when I was little, I watched Mr. Rogers.
Guest:And then when I was in high school.
Guest:It was on before school and I'd have it on and I just like saw it in a whole new like mind blowy way.
Guest:This is fucking brilliant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, in Sesame Street.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of like how if you experience grief as a child, you re-experience it at every stage of development.
Guest:Well, that's kind of like the same with art or anything.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I also think it's interesting that, you know, you and I, neither of us have kids.
Marc:And so, you know, we have to grow up, you know, slower, I think, than other people because we're just like almost like children.
Guest:We also have more space to... This is going to sound really like eye-roll-y.
Marc:Do it.
Marc:Well, it's not.
Marc:It's audio, so it's very hard to make audio viral.
Guest:To...
Guest:To raise ourselves, to continue to raise ourselves.
Marc:Yeah, because we needed to.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, the fucking thing about being brought up by narcissists, and I don't think your mom was one, but your dad was, but is that, you know, they take up so much air.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That, like, you know, all you—you know, for the first 15 years of your life, you're just an appendage of theirs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, how—
Guest:What mood are they in when they come home?
Guest:And that's that's my future.
Guest:That's like what my night will be.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:With everything.
Marc:So there there's no way for you to kind of in order to get a sense of self in the midst of narcissistic parents.
Marc:The fight is real, man.
Marc:And, you know, it's I think it's sort of why I became a comic because it was sort of like, I'm me.
Marc:I'm me.
Marc:Right.
Yeah.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then they got to deal with that.
Marc:And you figure out... Because comedy gives you that edge.
Marc:Eventually, you kind of outsmart them.
Marc:And they can't do their little mind fuck on you.
Marc:And then they have to all of a sudden kind of reel it in a little bit.
Marc:It's a great day.
Guest:But also, it's like, you know, my mom...
Guest:My mom, she was interested in show business and she'd read People magazine and she knew all these like fun facts and who was dating who.
Guest:And like, it's not a surprise that I found my way into getting into People magazine or getting it onto TV so she'd see me.
Guest:And then you don't get, you don't get it.
Guest:You know, like...
Guest:I remember calling my mom and saying, why don't you call me after I've been on TV?
Guest:And she goes, well, and in her mind, I think she thought, why would I care or something?
Guest:Why do you think I'm in show business?
Guest:I'm in show business.
Guest:So my mom will call me and say, I saw you on TV.
Guest:And my stepmom, my dad told me my stepmom would call her and beg her to call me.
Marc:Really?
Marc:So your mom was like that too?
Guest:She was kind of like... She couldn't... No, my dad and my stepmother, anytime I was on TV or something, they always called me, oh, we watched you.
Guest:You were wonderful.
Guest:My mom just couldn't...
Guest:You know, she loved Rachel Maddow.
Guest:Like, oh, her Rachel.
Guest:Sure, sure, sure.
Guest:So I like, I was on Rachel Maddow doing something.
Guest:And I like, I had a terrible appearance because I mentioned her name.
Guest:Oh, my mother loves you.
Guest:And she's like, oh, hi, Mrs. Silverman.
Guest:Oh, it's actually O'Hara.
Guest:You know, and I'm like, going so far on this show.
Guest:Very quick appearance.
Marc:On a political show.
Guest:For my mother when I needed to talk about other things.
Guest:And I was so excited because she would see it.
Guest:I know she watches it every night.
Guest:Didn't hear from her.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Called her like the next day or the next day.
Guest:I go, I gave you a shout out on your favorite.
Guest:Did you see?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I saw.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:You're never going to get what you need.
Marc:I didn't realize your mom was the more difficult one.
Guest:You know, my dad was in the first half of my life and my mom kind of was, you know, everything.
Guest:I could paint a heartbreaking story.
Guest:I could paint a perfect picturesque story just like anybody else.
Marc:Well, no, it's heartbreaking, but it's like that withholding thing is so mind fucky more than, you know, like, look, you know, my mom was sort of like slightly dismissive.
Marc:You know, it was always sort of like, well, why did you get a B?
Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But it was like, I guess that's okay.
Guest:You mean instead of a C?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They were such bad parents.
Marc:But not, you know, they didn't beat me.
Guest:Oh, they should get an award.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They were regular sort of like they had me when they were like in their 20s.
Marc:And then just a couple of, you know, New Jersey Jews who were overextended and no idea how to be parents.
Marc:But it got it just gets it.
Marc:It just gets kind of interesting because, you know, whatever their insecurities are, you know, you're you're going to answer for them somehow.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because my mom was like so preoccupied with her weight, you know?
Guest:Wow.
Marc:I'm doing a whole bit in my show now about how she, you know, she used to put diet pills in my lunch bag because I was chunky.
Marc:Oh, Jesus Christ.
Marc:I used to do this joke about, it never works as a joke, it's too sad.
Marc:I used to say like, I think for the first nine years of my life, my mother just saw me as her fat.
Guest:Her fat.
Yeah.
Marc:And that if she just stopped eating, maybe I'd go away.
Marc:But there is that sort of diminishing element that I don't think I think about it enough because I always think about my dad being the stronger personality of the two because they were chaotic.
Marc:And that was kind of exciting.
Marc:I mean, if anybody – I thought it was always my dad who was responsible for my charisma or wanting to be in show business.
Marc:But I think it was my mom's biting, horrible, fucking sarcastic self.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:That did it.
Marc:You?
Marc:Combo.
Marc:Outside of the approval of your mother?
Guest:Combo.
Guest:Your dad was pretty entertaining.
Guest:My dad was so funny.
Guest:And when I was young, very scary, but really funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But would lose his shit on a dime.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Like if he called my my sisters ultimately all moved it with my dad and I was the one left at my mom's.
Guest:And I mean, like if he called, if the phone rang, it's like I would turn the TV off.
Guest:Like, God forbid he heard the TV in the background.
Guest:Like he had a whole hang up that like my mom was lazy.
Guest:She was clinically depressed.
Guest:And, you know, that I'm going to now be lazy.
Guest:And it's a real hang up for me now.
Guest:Like.
Marc:Whenever you're being lazy?
Guest:Yeah, which is like I love to do a whole lot of nothing any second I can.
Guest:But then I'll have like immense guilt around it.
Guest:And then I'll project that onto my partner, Rory.
Guest:And he's like, I don't think you're lazy.
Guest:I think you're the least lazy person I've ever met.
Guest:Get that out of your – that's you.
Guest:That's your thing, you know.
Guest:But it's – I still have that thing where it's like –
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, my dad's going to see I'm watching TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I still think I'm fat.
Guest:Oh, my gosh.
Marc:It never goes away.
Marc:It's wired in there.
Marc:Your mom's Jewish, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:It's so funny because my memory of the one time that I. Oh, yeah.
Marc:Way back.
Marc:I was like, you know, I met her husband.
Marc:And I met her because I stayed at the house.
Guest:John O'Hara.
Marc:And I met your dad, too.
Marc:You know, I don't know why.
Marc:We went over there or something.
Marc:But we were so young.
Marc:But I remembered, like, this is your mom's house.
Marc:I'm like, this is somebody who does not want to be Jewish anymore.
Guest:Well, she she she you could not tell she was Jewish, you know, pale skin, blue eyes, you know, like overalls not into not bobbles like, you know, the Jews that they're like, we're New England Jews.
Guest:Like, I don't know what that is.
Guest:It's a little different.
Guest:Country Jews.
Guest:A little different.
Marc:A little different.
Marc:The Boston Jews and the New England Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your dad is like, you know, he's he's about the most aggressive sort.
Guest:Yeah, well, he looks like— Yeah, and also he's got an attitude.
Marc:I notice that sometimes in Boston, the Jews I met, they didn't want to be too Jew-y.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Well, the thing is, well, both my parents were atheists, and we were just Jewish culture.
Guest:We were Jewish by—
Guest:Yeah, by being Jewish.
Marc:Your dad couldn't.
Marc:There's no way he could not be Jewish.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's like my sister, the rabbi, you know, she always said we we thought being Jewish meant being a Democrat because that's how we were different in New Hampshire.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But like Susie, too, like it's I'm trying to think.
Guest:I love hearing you say Susie.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because she's Susie to me and she was Susie to you.
Guest:But now she's like Rabbi Susan.
Guest:So she always says when someone calls her Susie, she knows that they know me.
Guest:They know her from my podcast.
Guest:You're from me.
Marc:But it's interesting if I'm just going to stereotype, you know, like, I mean, we weren't close friends, but she didn't.
Marc:She wasn't that Jewy back in college.
Marc:And if I really think of the siblings, I don't know.
Marc:I know Laura.
Marc:Laura is like the most aggressively Jewish and you, I think.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I became very, I mean, I have no religion.
Guest:No, I know, but we're Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you can't escape that.
Marc:No.
Marc:No Jew outside of Orthodox Jews expects you to be religious.
Guest:But I grew up with no Jews, so I didn't, my experience of people knowing I was Jewish, I'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm Jewish, but like totally not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I was like immediately apologizing.
Marc:And then they'd meet your dad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so funny because there's other like Cedar's Jew.
Marc:Oh, Sam.
Marc:Sam is sort of like a New England Jew-y.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, but it's there.
Guest:It's self-loathing, I would say.
Marc:Yeah, but it's not New York.
Marc:And he's like aggressive and he's intelligent and he's quick-witted.
Marc:He's got all of the attributes, but then he's got that Worcester thing.
Guest:The Worcester Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's what your dad was?
Guest:John Benjamin.
Guest:He was from Brockton.
Guest:Boston and Brockton.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:The Boston Jew thing.
Marc:Yeah, I just heard from John Benjamin for the first time in six years.
Marc:Today.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's so funny.
Marc:He is very funny.
Marc:Sam's so funny.
Marc:It's just like he was one of those guys where it's like, just be funny.
Marc:Just be funny.
Marc:He's very smart and he's very political and I'm very happy that he's doing what he's doing.
Marc:But there's still those moments when he is funny where you're like, oh, yeah, we I we I text with him more often and what to get to answer questions about politics.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, different, different things that we ask each other.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:But like Susie, like now when, when, so like, I don't, I don't know the oldest one really.
Marc:Susie.
Marc:Well, who's the one between, who's the next one?
Marc:Jodine.
Marc:Jodine, I don't really know.
Guest:It's Susie, then Laura, then Jodine, then me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Jodine's Janice's daughter, so we met when we were both seven.
Guest:She's three months older than me.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:But, like, I kind of know Laura.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and Susie I know a bit.
Marc:But, like, when all this stuff is going down, when, like, how does the rabbi's influence?
Marc:You talk a little bit about it in the show.
Marc:But, you know, she's got to bring somewhat of a spiritual element to it.
Marc:In terms of how she not believes in God necessarily, but, you know, rabbis handle this stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also she's...
Guest:She's a rabbi to everyone else.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And us too, but also she's like dark as shit.
Guest:A dark silverman.
Guest:Like, I mean, dad died like the night, like at 2 a.m.
Guest:on the 11th.
Guest:Her birthday, her 60th birthday was May 10th.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The day before?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and he's literally—she videotaped—I don't know if this is okay to say.
Guest:I hope it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She videotaped just for us, like, herself just sitting next to Dad's bed where you can, like, literally just hear the death rattle, like, this is the end.
Guest:And she was just like—
Guest:Happy birthday to me.
Guest:Which is just, it's very our family to just be so fucked up.
Marc:Oh, that's the best.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's so good.
Marc:But that's the nature.
Marc:Like, I do that with my dad all the time when I call him.
Marc:I'm like, it's Mark, your son.
Marc:Do you remember me still?
Marc:And he goes, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
Marc:I'm like, all right.
Marc:Then what's going on?
Marc:Not much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, he's at the—I call it the—he's a ventriloquist dummy now to his wife because he's got no day of memories.
Marc:So I'm like, did you go to the movies last night?
Marc:He goes, yeah.
Marc:What did you see?
Marc:He goes, Rosie, what did we see?
Marc:But he's got old memories still.
Guest:Yeah, it's interesting.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Guest:Yeah, I made a mixtape for my dad of—
Guest:of just all the hits from like the summer he was 17 and I played them for him.
Guest:He knew every word to every song.
Marc:But he wasn't losing his mind, was he?
Guest:No, he wasn't at all, actually.
Guest:But it is interesting just how you remember 17, maybe 12.
Guest:You're going to remember every word to every hit song.
Marc:Isn't that wild?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I tried to bring that up on my old man.
Marc:He definitely remembers that stuff.
Guest:That's cool.
Marc:Because they kind of wired into you, too.
Marc:You know, you get to hear the songs he likes when you're a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because they play them all the time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And all that stuff, the crazy, the commercials and everything you found, all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know if you watched through the... The credits?
Marc:Yeah, that was funny.
Marc:It was the actual commercial.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was the commercial.
Marc:Where'd you find that fucking thing?
Guest:I had, it's so funny because I had digitized a bunch of stuff and I was like, fuck, I only have these like two going out of business sale commercials on my phone where he's like crying, fake crying and saying, which I have on my phone.
Guest:But when I was working with the editor, he taught me how to search my computer, the hard drive or whatever, and I found a bunch more.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That you just put on there years ago or?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like digitized from a cassette or something that I had.
Marc:So in the process of doing the show, were you just primarily working out like pieces at Largo to see if you could find the humor in the real stories?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it was so raw.
Guest:Like, I remember coming straight to Largo from cleaning out their apartment, you know, and just, like, being so tired.
Guest:Yeah, they had an apartment.
Guest:We got them an apartment in L.A.
Guest:So that's where, you know, that's where we all were, which was great.
Guest:We're all here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not Susie, though.
Guest:Susie came immediately.
Guest:No, of course, yeah.
Guest:She was there for a long time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And three of her kids.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Three of her five kids, yeah.
Marc:Oh, and they all had a relationship with them?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very close.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The Zaid.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's good when you have a relationship with your grandparents.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:They were so close.
Guest:My grandparents?
Yeah.
Guest:My dad's mother I was close with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was her name?
Guest:Rose.
Marc:I love the old Jewish names.
Guest:Yeah, Nana.
Guest:Her name was Rose.
Marc:My grandma was Goldie.
Guest:My other grandma, my mother's mother was Goldie.
Guest:And she was a cunt monster.
Guest:And when she died, I remember my dad told me and I said, good.
Guest:Which is, I don't think I've ever felt that way about anyone.
Guest:But she was extremely, you know, the one thing that bonded, I think, and I don't think consciously.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were definitely trauma bonding, you know, unconsciously when my parents, when they met because my, they're both the older of two siblings.
Guest:My dad had a younger brother and mom had a younger sister.
Guest:And they both were the only one of their siblings that was
Guest:Deeply abused by parents.
Guest:My dad's dad beat the shit out of him every day.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And my mom's mom abused her horribly.
Marc:And that, I guess, creates some capacity for empathy for them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I didn't know about—I knew she was—
Guest:Awful, but I didn't really know about the extent of the abuse until I was a little older.
Guest:And Laura told me, and I remember being so angry at her because I couldn't now unknow this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But, of course, I'm glad I do.
Guest:And it made me understand my mom so much more.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah, you can see them as people.
Marc:It's a burden off your back.
Guest:But how my mom didn't seem at all Jewish is like she comes from that generation where it's like her mother was an immigrant from Poland.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I did that Finding Your Roots show.
Marc:I did that, too.
Marc:What did you find out?
Guest:Nothing interesting.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I mean, he was wonderful.
Guest:And he said it was the farthest he was able to go back of a Jew.
Marc:He said that to me, too.
Guest:Did he really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe you were after me.
Guest:He said all the way back from Catherine the Great, Russia, Belarus.
Marc:Yeah, me too, Belarus.
Guest:We're probably related.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Well, he found out I was related to Barbara Walters somehow.
Marc:Or no, Louis Black, maybe.
Marc:No, Barbara Walters.
Marc:And then he told Louis Black.
Guest:How are you confusing those two things?
Guest:How are you?
Marc:Because I think he told Louis Black that he was related to me.
Marc:But when I was on his show, he somehow tracked me to Barbara Walters.
Marc:But now the whole thing is in doubt.
Marc:Because he told me that I was the furthest back he ever got with a Jew in the palest settlement.
Guest:But it was ultimately very boring because it was...
Guest:It was a million names, not many pictures or anything.
Guest:It was just like they signed censors, you know, and everything.
Guest:But it was just all their jobs.
Guest:It was just peddler, peddler, peddler, dressmaker, cobbler, peddler, peddler.
Guest:I had a tailor.
Guest:All the way through my dad.
Marc:Yeah, we got all the way to a tailor in Belarus.
Guest:You know, those rich Jews, right?
Marc:Well, no, we don't come from those.
Marc:That's the funny thing.
Marc:That was the other thing I realized about some Boston Jews is like there's a difference between.
Marc:Like German Jews and Russian Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're Russian Jews, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're peasant Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the German Jews were aristocratic Jews.
Guest:That's why they were, you know, they were, that's like, what's his name?
Guest:David Baddiel.
Marc:Oh, yeah, Badio, yeah.
Guest:You know, he says, like, yeah, my family were rich in Germany, and they went right into their real big house and murdered them.
Guest:Like, oh, fuck, you know.
Guest:But, yeah, we were poor Jews.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And we were, like, and I think they were, because my mom...
Marc:dated a German Jew, like, you know, several generations.
Marc:But, you know, he was sort of like he wanted, you know, anywhere he'd go, even if it was a fucking diner, you know, he'd put out a napkin as a placemat, and he was all very, you know, there was a, almost like that bit about, you know,
Marc:Chris Rock does about nobody hates, you know, the N-word more than black people.
Marc:You know, I think it was the same with aristocratic German Jews.
Guest:Oh, is that when they're being lynched and one spins toward the other?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Says, what are you looking at?
Marc:Oh, no, I don't know that one.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:It was Rock's big joke.
Marc:But it was just a class thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That the peasant Jews, the Polish Jews, the Russian Jews were just, you know.
Marc:They were garbage to the German Jews.
Marc:Vermin, yeah.
Marc:I don't think they went that far, unless they were trying to get on the Hitler's good side.
Guest:Oh, I was on the Finding Your Roots related to Maggie Gyllenhaal.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Is she Jewish?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:I found, they found a story about my family that was completely crazy.
Marc:Go on.
Marc:So it was kind of interesting.
Marc:Well, I think I believe that my dad's mother,
Marc:And her line, the Mastowitz's, like somehow I believe ended up – they all came in from – most of them came in through New Jersey.
Marc:But there was a time in Reconstruction after the Civil War where they wanted people to move down south so black people wouldn't take over all the businesses.
Yeah.
Marc:So, but my, I guess, great, great, great grandfather had this whole life in like South Carolina where he owned a grocery store and his son was involved in the business and they owned a building and maybe two grocery stores and he was just nuts.
Marc:And him and his son were suing each other and there was all this like, you know, paper trail of this fucking insanity.
Marc:And my dad's like bipolar, crazy guy.
Marc:And that came down through his mother, the worrier.
Marc:And so it was...
Marc:It was kind of a bit of drama to track, you know.
Marc:And then I found out that my mother's maternal line goes back to Galicia, which is in the Ukraine or Poland.
Marc:It kind of switches.
Marc:And that was some sort of oil boom town.
Marc:In the 1800s.
Marc:Galicia was the Soviet oil boom town.
Marc:And so, like, there's an outside chance that some of my relatives were, like, you know, roughnecks, you know, working the wells.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:Kind of like that.
Marc:I was hoping for a Viking, but I didn't get a Viking.
Guest:Yeah, that will never happen.
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, I thought maybe somebody raped somebody, came down into Poland.
Guest:Well, yeah, that's why, like, Laura has Asian features because of the, you know, Mongolian.
Marc:Is that true?
Yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:That's what I was always told.
Marc:What was your percentage of Jew?
Marc:134%.
Marc:I know, because I had done 23andMe, it was 95, but Gates told me it was 99.
Marc:And I'm like, all right.
Guest:And a tiny percentage Siberia, which was, what does that mean?
Guest:Like just a prisoner, a Russian prisoner?
Marc:Somebody.
Marc:Really?
Marc:He had a little Siberian?
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Somebody made a deal to get out of prison.
Marc:Somebody fucked a guard.
Marc:But in terms of what was very sweet that Jeff Ross was there.
Guest:He was close with them.
Marc:Yeah, of course he was.
Guest:Of course, yeah.
Marc:You could put an old Jew, I could put an old Jew in front of my house now, and within six hours, Jeff would find him.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:He's just like, he's always been an old Jew.
Guest:He has, and he's always had older friends.
Marc:Yeah, because he loves them.
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, he was kind of orphaned.
Guest:I know, I remember that.
Guest:His mom when he was 14, his dad when he was 19.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they lived with his grandpa when we knew him.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:When it was Jeff Lifshultz.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I always used to say to him, do you remember the movie The Shining?
Guest:Of course.
Marc:The very end where, you know, the bartender says, you've always been here, Mr. Torrance.
Marc:And then they go into that picture and you can see from the 30s.
Marc:It's Nicholson.
Marc:I say that about Jeff.
Marc:It's like, you've always been here, Jeff, in show business.
Marc:And he comes from caterings.
Marc:My mother and father got married in their hall.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Sorry, Emily.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:He was like, I have the wedding album.
Marc:And I gave him pictures because it's of the place.
Marc:They did their wedding party and everything there.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Because it's in Jersey.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when we put that together, he was like, oh, my God, I need the pictures.
Marc:And he's using them in his one-man show.
Guest:Yeah, he's got his one-man show, take a banana for the ride.
Marc:Yeah, but he used one of my parents' wedding pictures to show the place.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:And he knew, like, the people that were working there, he could say, oh, that's my uncle.
Marc:You know, like, it was crazy.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Isn't that a nice connection?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what's the plan?
Marc:What are you doing now?
Marc:You doing movies?
Marc:Anything?
Guest:Oh, maybe.
Guest:Yeah, I am going to do like an independent something coming up, which, you know, will be fun.
Marc:How do you decide which ones you're going to do?
Guest:I don't get a lot coming my way, you know, or it's something where it's like, if you attach, we're going to try to get money and funding.
Marc:I know.
Guest:If I'm your hope, you're just doomed, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you have fun doing the Bernstein movie?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:He's one of those guys that is so prepared and so— Cooper?
Guest:Cooper, Bradley Cooper, that what would probably be days and days and days, we were done early every time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Three days to do an 11-page intricate party scene, we got done on the first day.
Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Awesome, yeah.
Guest:He's so prepared.
Guest:He knows exactly what he wants to do.
Marc:He must be some gifted fuck, I'll tell you that.
Marc:Yeah, you must be.
Marc:I mean, to be in front of the camera and also directing.
Marc:He did a great job with it.
Marc:The movie's a little all over the place, but it was certainly great to look at.
Guest:People have all sorts of opinions on it, but yeah, he did it.
Guest:He made the movie he wanted to make, and it's gorgeous.
Guest:I really liked it.
Guest:Again, I didn't totally...
Guest:get it until I saw it at home with subtitles because I can't... I realize I can't hear.
Marc:What was there not to get?
Guest:I don't... I can't hear well.
Guest:That's what's not to get.
Guest:I'm hearing every fourth word pretty much.
Guest:Anything... And the music didn't sound right.
Guest:No, it's just like, you know, I mean, I just... I can't fucking hear.
Guest:As a matter of fact, he was...
Guest:directing me from wherever, you know, and yelling out direction.
Guest:And then he got really pissed because I wasn't listening to him.
Guest:And I had, you know, I had that trump card of, I can't hear well.
Guest:So if you want to tell me something, I need you to walk.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he was nice about it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And what's your boyfriend's name again?
Guest:Rory.
Guest:Rory what?
Guest:Rory Albanese.
Guest:Rory.
Guest:I can say it better if I say it fast.
Marc:Rory Albanese.
Guest:Rory Albanese, which is Italian for Albanian.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I like that you found an Italian that kind of looks like your dad.
Yeah.
Guest:He does.
Guest:Well, his mother's Jewish.
Marc:It's like I've tracked your boyfriends over the years, and I'm like, all right, that one's another one.
Marc:Another one that looks like your dad.
Marc:And then he went out with the British guy, and I'm like, nah, he doesn't look like your dad.
Guest:Yeah, that was a different direction.
Guest:Although I will say his accent sounds hoity-toity because, you know, it's British, but it kind of is, it's a very small leap to Boston.
Yeah.
Marc:That's true.
Guest:It just sounds fancier.
Guest:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:You know?
Marc:But, like, when you think about it, maybe I'm talking out of school, but I track weird things.
Marc:But, you know, from, like, the Attell Cedar Cohen, that was, like, full dad.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Oh, my.
Guest:Attell looked exactly like my father when he was young.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Like, crazy.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:But you've been with this guy for a while, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Five years.
Guest:I can't believe it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Well, COVID kind of fucked us.
Guest:We were COVID lovers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, like, you lose all that time.
Marc:I feel like I should be able to—like, I'm 61, but because of COVID, I think I should be 58.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That sounds fair.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I love—it's just you saying, rattling off, like, the men I've dated.
Guest:It's, like, makes me—
Guest:It's such a warm feeling.
Guest:Like, yeah, we really know each other.
Guest:We've known each other for so long.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Maybe we talk every few years with each other a lot or whatever, but it's like we really do know each other.
Marc:Yeah, I think I kind of—well, I don't think we dated, but I knew your roommate—
Guest:Yeah, you slept with one of my roommates.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Did you also sleep with Beth Tapper?
Marc:No, I think it was Allison, because she was the Star Wars person, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She loved Star Wars.
Marc:Yeah, she reached out to me at some point not long ago, and I was like, hey, yeah, because she was kind of intense.
Guest:Yeah, she, oh, Jessica, I always laugh because I still am in touch with her and she's sober and she's doing great.
Guest:She's a drama teacher in New Jersey.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:She was going to be an actress, right?
Guest:She was an actress, and she wrote plays, and she was in the experimental theater wing.
Guest:And we always have this—I don't know if this is too visual, but Jessica and I remember college—I had already dropped out, but she was still in college, and I adored her.
Guest:And we went to see one of her experimental plays that she was in it.
Guest:Because she was in the experimental theater wing.
Guest:And it was one of those plays like—
Guest:but I, or she, you know, whatever, just very disjointed.
Guest:And she comes out and she's in a big fur coat.
Guest:And then she, she drops the fur coat and she's completely naked, full bush, like the whole thing.
Guest:And I'm sitting next to Jessica and Jessica was sitting next to Alison's mother, Carol.
Guest:And I hear him turn to her and go,
Guest:You must be so proud.
Guest:And the greatest was that we always laugh because when they came out to bow at the end, she didn't, like, have a robe on.
Guest:She just came out naked, you know, and then, like, everyone's clapping and then, like, pointing out the band, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's just naked?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was so comfortable in her body.
Guest:Experimental theater.
Guest:Love her.
Guest:Love her.
Marc:It's so weird being, because I was talking to Peter Shore from the store about, you know, working there.
Marc:And he goes, you're one of the senior citizens.
Marc:I'm like, oh.
Guest:Crazy.
Marc:Am I?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:Because I'm like, you're a little younger than me, but it's kind of.
Guest:Well, just like having like.
Guest:Younger comics having like deference for you and you're like, oh, God.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And there's like four generations after us now.
Marc:Like it's like it's fucking nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I have no idea who anybody is anymore until they kind of pop through.
Marc:What do you think of Robbie Hoffman?
Guest:Obsessed.
Marc:Crazy.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I love her so much.
Marc:It's crazy, too.
Guest:I do it in pressure.
Guest:Because during the strike, I had a lot of young comics.
Guest:I became friends with a lot of young comics.
Guest:And we would pick it and then come over to swim in the pool.
Guest:And I just love it because it's inspiring.
Guest:I think it's important.
Guest:You've got to know.
Guest:I don't know everybody.
Guest:I'm a shed in mostly, but.
Guest:Just, you know, through stand-up, through Beth's—I'm close with Beth Stelling and then all of her friends and all the comics she knows.
Guest:And Robbie ended up in the pool.
Guest:And it was funny because Rory said something funny like—
Guest:You know, I finally have, like, topless women in the pool, but they all have top surgery.
Guest:You know, like... Robbie said something so funny, and it so defines her.
Guest:Because she's almost like dice, or... If she wasn't in a... Or they.
Guest:They.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:They don't care, and they get mad that I get mad at myself, but they're they.
Guest:But they were like...
Guest:They're from Crown Heights, very orthodox.
Marc:That's the amazing thing about her is that all of comedy came from Jews who spoke Yiddish.
Marc:But we're three or four generations past that.
Marc:All the Jews that were in the 70s, they were just slowly going away, that rhythm.
Marc:But she's like direct, like she's one generation beyond Yiddish because she grew up in that fucking crazy community.
Marc:So she has that thing that used to be all over the place.
Guest:Yeah, she sounds like Jackie Mason.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's earnest.
Guest:Yeah, it's completely earnest.
Guest:It's not a bit.
Guest:So she's in the pool and she's like, you know, my brother.
Guest:But Brother Cole, he's like, trans people are fucking gross, you know?
Guest:And I'm like, what am I supposed to do, not pick up the phone when he calls me every Tuesday?
Guest:You know, and it's like there's—to me, like, she's—there's an importantness about her that she will—
Guest:hopefully never take on herself you know it's like almost like how Billie Jean King was like a huge feminist icon but to her she was just a tennis player and to Robbie they're just a comic but I think her their existence does a lot of work where of kind of bringing people together and not making such a big deal about that gender and whatever yeah
Guest:Not that – I don't mean they shouldn't make a big deal about it.
Guest:I mean in the face of hatred, she still sees her brother and connection and love.
Guest:Oh, and the good, yeah.
Guest:And just like rolls her eyes and still – Painfully optimistic.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And self-actualized.
Guest:I'm not articulating it well.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I know what you mean.
Marc:Is that like just by her being and staying – like she's – like it's all good to her.
Marc:Like she's not – she's not reflect.
Marc:She's not neurotic.
Marc:She's like totally self-accepting.
Marc:She loves life.
Guest:And she –
Guest:They, she, get away with so much, and it makes it wonderful.
Guest:It's refreshing.
Guest:She's got a free zone.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:They posted.
Guest:They do, yeah.
Guest:She doesn't give a fuck.
Guest:We're struggling, but we're trying to do what is most respectful.
Yeah.
Guest:But they posted just them doing stand-up like in Brooklyn somewhere.
Guest:And it was the funniest bit.
Guest:I'm sure it's in a special or something.
Guest:But they go, the Property Brothers?
Guest:What is this?
Guest:Twins are for kids.
Guest:He wears blue.
Guest:He wears red like the gay.
Guest:You know, I guess it's kind of nonsensical.
Guest:It's kind of semi hate speech, but it's like because it's coming from her, it's like it's just so.
Marc:And I think also it's the delivery.
Marc:It's like historical.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, like, it's like it's like from out of the fucking Jewish past.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's in and just what whether they know it or not, you know, people it's ingrained in us.
Marc:The rhythm of that Jewish thing was was all of comedy.
Guest:Just even if you look at her talk, the way she the the place where she keeps her tongue.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's like there's a cultural.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.
Marc:I just talked to Modi.
Marc:He's like the biggest star for Jews in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:He's so Jewish.
Marc:Modi is like the Russell Peters of Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was so funny because I can't read it any other way.
Marc:Like he came over here, you know, and he's got his Meshawak energy hat.
Marc:Like he's all about like, you know, he's like it's such an amazing thing that things turn for people that it just happened the way it did because of Zoom shows that he became this international sensation.
Marc:Like he was like we've known him forever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, he was doing Jewish corporates, him in a long gold or whatever.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But he started doing these characters online during the pandemic.
Marc:And they took off.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:And now he's got this international following of Jews of all ages.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:And he's another one who's out and, you know, and very Jewish.
Marc:And he defies, you know, stereotype in a way.
Marc:Like he came over and he did the thing.
Marc:And then like a week or two later, I get a package from him.
Marc:And it's a framed, I guess it's the Shema, right?
Marc:And the note says, I noticed that you didn't have a mezuzah outside of your house.
Marc:And like, you know, I thought it was a very kind Jewish gesture, but I thought it was a little fuel.
Marc:It was guilt.
Guest:It was a very Jewish gesture.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It's like, since you don't have the courage.
Marc:Or the wherewithal to put a mezuzah outside your house.
Marc:Maybe you would hang this inside the doorway because you're a Jew.
Marc:That's how I read it.
Guest:Can I tell you?
Marc:What?
Guest:I've never had a mezuzah.
Guest:And for my birthday this year, Jeff Ross got me a mezuzah.
Marc:Keepers of the Flame.
Guest:We put it up, you know.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is it a nice one or a weird modern thing?
Guest:It's pretty.
Guest:No, it's nice.
Guest:I don't know from – but there's a story in our family, but I feel it might be like an old joke or something because my dad would often say something was real and it was like something you heard.
Guest:But as the story goes, when my parents got married –
Guest:They moved into an apartment.
Guest:They were given a mezuzah, you know, neither are religious.
Guest:And they're just like, how are we supposed to hang this?
Guest:What do we do?
Guest:And my mother opened it up and she goes, oh, there's instructions inside.
Guest:And then she opened it, unscrolled it and said, oh, they're in Hebrew.
Marc:That's a great story.
Guest:Because mezuzahs have a Jewish scroll in there.
Marc:Yeah, I think it's a shema.
Marc:Yeah, I remember taking it out of mezuzah once and thinking, like, we're doing something very bad.
Marc:Taking this out of mezuzah.
Marc:I don't have any good stories.
Guest:Isn't it that Jews don't have hell and yet we seem to fear hell in every move we make?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know what the hell is.
Marc:I think there is a hell, but I'm not that deep in.
Marc:I think that, you know, maybe if you get deep into the Torah, there's something.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Guest:No, I don't think Jews have hell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:I'm hoping.
Marc:I'm hoping it doesn't have help.
Marc:But I don't have any good stories.
Marc:But back talking about my mother and her weight issues, that's the only story that she used to tell is that she had a grandmother who was Polish.
Marc:My grandmother's mother, Goldie's mother, used to live with them.
Marc:You know, when she was a kid and she said that she made me fat and she would she just always would tell the story about how her grandmother would flip her boob over over her shoulder to powder underneath it.
Marc:And that was just this terror of my mother was all based on that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The under boob sweat of the heavy Jewish bosom.
Guest:I do understand.
Guest:Traumatizing.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good stuff.
Marc:All right, Jew.
Marc:All right, Jew.
Marc:We had a pretty good Jew talk.
Marc:I like doing that now.
Marc:Like, I like talking to Modi.
Marc:I like talking to Robbie.
Marc:And Jessica Kurson was in here.
Marc:And we spent 10 minutes just talking about, you know, the generation of our grandparents' names.
Marc:We're just naming people.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Well, oh, that's what I was going to say about my mother being—my mother's name was Beth Ann.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because my grandmother didn't want anyone to sound Jewish.
Guest:They changed their last name from Cohen to Halpin, which was—I didn't know until I did Finding Your Roots.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But you know the actress Tova Feldshuh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's in everything?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I worked with her, and she was probably about my mother's age.
Guest:And she said her real name, her given name, is Terry Sue.
Wow.
Guest:And that it was a boyfriend in college that she was madly in love with who was like, you should be proud that you're Jewish.
Guest:You should have a Jewish name like Tova.
Guest:And she was like, okay.
Marc:I'll be Tova.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's so funny.
Guest:Isn't that funny?
Guest:But that generation, they don't have Jewish names because their parents don't.
Guest:They work so hard to assimilate.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But your name wasn't different, was it?
Marc:Silverman Silverman.
Guest:Sarah Silverman, no, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, Silverman.
Marc:Marin, like apparently that's the name.
Marc:People are always like, what was it?
Marc:I'm like, it was Marin.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My grandmother was Similevich or Similevich.
Marc:Yeah, my grandmother was Mostowicz.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:My Goldie was Fear, F-E-I-R.
Guest:Whoa.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Goldie Fear.
Marc:I don't know if that was shorter or not.
Marc:She had a brother named Georgie.
Guest:My grandmother was Goldie, too, and nothing, not short for anything.
Marc:No.
Marc:I think it might have been Golda.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:And then somehow my mother was, do you know your Hebrew name?
Guest:It's like Sarah.
Marc:Sarah.
Guest:Like Sarah without an H, maybe?
Marc:Mine's like Michael.
Marc:It's the closest they get to Michael.
Marc:Michael David.
Guest:I always know Howard Stearns is Zvi.
Marc:Zvi?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that what his is?
Guest:Zvi.
Marc:Oh, you're going to do that tomorrow morning.
Guest:I'll call him Zvi.
Marc:You ready for Howard?
Guest:How do you prepare for that?
Guest:I just have to wake up so early.
Guest:I'm going to sleep as soon as I get home from here.
Marc:Well, thanks for stopping by.
Marc:And the special was great.
Guest:Thank you, my friend.
I love you.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Sarah Silverman and me catching up.
Marc:Her new special, Sarah Silverman Postmortem, is out tomorrow, May 20th on Netflix.
Marc:Hang out for a second, will you?
Marc:Hey, folks, you can check out the first time Sarah did a full WTF episode if you have a WTF Plus subscription.
Marc:It's episode 116, which is only available to subscribers.
Guest:I work really slow.
Guest:I'm not prolific.
Guest:And I have I I.
Guest:Actually, when I have a timetable or a deadline, I make it.
Guest:So I should probably do that.
Guest:I've been a lot more disciplined, and writing the book actually helped me with that a little bit.
Marc:It's amazing, right?
Marc:Writing a book that you have to... Deadlines are amazingly helpful.
Guest:Yeah, it becomes your job.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:You get up and do it every day.
Guest:And I did realize, like, gee, if I spent three hours a day...
Guest:working on my act i would i would uh have a lot more material a lot faster but i'm a lazy fuck like all of us are but um i am starting to be a little more do you work like that do you write jokes no but i'm starting to you know like you know what i did is like whenever i have like a show at largo or show ucb or something yeah
Guest:I I'll go, all right, I'm going to take today and I'm going to go to some hotel lobby and sit with a legal pad or my laptop.
Guest:And because I'm around people, I'm going to have to look like I'm working and it forces me to get something done.
Guest:And that night I'm always happy I did.
Marc:To sign up for WTF Plus and get every episode of WTF ad-free, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF Plus.
Marc:And just a reminder before I go, this show is hosted by Acast.
Marc:Here's some guitar.
Marc:I think it was kind of meditative.
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and LaFonda cat angels everywhere.