Episode 1642 - Bridget Everett
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how are you what's going on i what is you know what what is going on i have been immersed in
Marc:I've been immersed for what seems to be a year and a half.
Marc:I have been immersed in heading towards this special taping.
Marc:I've got no more dates to announce.
Marc:I've got nothing.
Marc:I've got nothing but this and you and some promotions to do, you know, for a lot of things.
Marc:I've got things happening.
Marc:But I mean, what am I going to do comedically?
Marc:I just did it.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:And it went well.
Marc:You know, I could be a little self-conscious and a little diminishing and a little dismissive of myself, but I think it went very well.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:It almost happens in a dream.
Marc:I'll try to tell you about it.
Marc:I will try to tell you about it.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Bridget Everett.
Marc:She's the star and executive producer of the HBO series Somebody Somewhere.
Marc:She got her start in the New York cabaret scene.
Marc:And I'll be honest with you, when I got the opportunity to interview Bridget, I didn't really know her.
Marc:I didn't know the show, but I knew she was a thing.
Marc:I knew the show was a thing for some people.
Marc:So I was like, okay, sure.
Marc:You know, Brendan told me she got started in, you know, cabaret.
Marc:And I was like, all right, well, that's close to comedy.
Marc:All right, fine.
Marc:And then I started watching the show, Somebody Somewhere.
Marc:And what...
Marc:A great show.
Marc:What a great show.
Marc:You look, I don't know if it's for everybody.
Marc:I'm not even sure why it's for me.
Marc:But I started watching it and I was locked in.
Marc:I loved her.
Marc:I loved her character.
Marc:I love the comedy of it.
Marc:I love the other characters.
Marc:I was crying.
Marc:I was laughing.
Marc:I was invested emotionally.
Marc:I watched it like nonstop all the way through all three seasons.
Marc:She just got me, man.
Marc:I mean, I just couldn't I couldn't pull away from it.
Marc:I just thought it was so beautiful and human and interesting and, you know, eclectic and diverse.
Marc:And there's something about her character that I obviously identified with emotionally.
Marc:And man, did we have a conversation.
Marc:I can't explain it.
Marc:Sometimes I just feel so connected to somebody's character, but she's a lot like the character.
Marc:It's basically her.
Marc:But, you know, we got into some other stuff, but I was just so surprised and excited to be so emotionally torn up and entertained by that show.
Marc:It's a big talk and it was really great for me.
Marc:I think it was for her.
Marc:I think we kind of ended kind of amazed at ourselves.
Marc:So New York City, I just got back.
Marc:And look, we made it through this long run.
Marc:You know, from a week ago Friday through, you know, Toronto and Vermont, Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
Marc:That show went great.
Marc:And then, like, I drove down.
Marc:We had a rent-a-car, me and Kathy Ladman, who was opening for me.
Marc:She did great on the special and on all the shows.
Marc:We drove down from Portsmouth to Boston, flew to New York.
Marc:We made it.
Marc:I didn't lose anything else.
Marc:I got home.
Marc:My computer was back.
Marc:which was nice.
Marc:And my cats hadn't shit anywhere.
Marc:And there was limited cat drama.
Marc:I don't know how it worked out.
Marc:You know, the woman who watches my cats, she bought them a bunch of toys.
Marc:She exhausted them every night.
Marc:She was giving them the Zilkeen or Charlie and some probiotic calming stuff.
Marc:It seems like him and Buster are kind of at it again, but no shit.
Marc:I mean, no shit, which was really nice to come home to.
Marc:Now I got to wait for three days for them all to calm the fuck down and realize I'm back in charge.
Marc:I've got it.
Marc:I'm the king.
Marc:I'm the alpha of you three little fucks.
Marc:Sammy, I'm not even sure Sammy knows me.
Marc:So I got to tell you, man.
Marc:The special looks stunning.
Marc:All the people at the Bam Harvey were just great.
Marc:And that theater is such a special place.
Marc:I can't even explain it to you.
Marc:You'll see it on the special, but it was built in like the early, early 1900s.
Marc:And instead of renovating it,
Marc:They kind of preserved it in its decay.
Marc:So it has a sort of personality that you don't see much in theaters that old because most of the time they get flipped.
Marc:They get renovated.
Marc:Many places renovate them appropriately to the time or restore the stuff that was there.
Marc:But this place, the Harvey, is completely unique in that it has kind of broken down a bit.
Marc:It's almost a bit of a ruin in a way.
Marc:So they just let that be and they just kind of maintain it.
Marc:They didn't, you know, restore it per se.
Marc:They honor what it is.
Marc:And it's got an incredible personality.
Marc:And when I first went to the place and I saw the back wall of the theater that I believe still had paint on it from somewhere back in the 1900s, early 1900s.
Marc:And the whole back of the theater, as I might have said before, looked like a piece of art to me, like a Rothko painting or something kind of it was chipped away.
Marc:It had different colors, different tones.
Marc:And I'm like, we're using that wall.
Marc:We're using that wall.
Marc:And my production designer, Mark.
Marc:Janowitz it was like he got it right away and he started talking to me I don't know if I told you guys this but he started talking to me about I think it's called Kintsugi it's a Japanese art they take old ceramics
Marc:bowls and pieces, vases, and they repair them meticulously using gold to bond it back together.
Marc:So it's a completely new thing.
Marc:And there was something that Mark saw in the theater where he was like, Kintsugi.
Marc:And I'm like, what is that?
Marc:And he says, it's this Japanese art form, you know, where they put ceramics back together with gold.
Marc:And I'm like, okay, do it.
Marc:Run with it, dude.
Marc:I love collaborating with people.
Marc:So he had this whole concept, and I didn't know necessarily how it would fit into the special, but it certainly felt it fit into the vibe of the room.
Marc:So he kind of based his vision for the production design around this kintsugi, and he created lights and little, what are they called?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Gobos, maybe where, you know, the Kintsugi patterns were sort of around and the carpet on the stage.
Marc:We put we put a stage in and the lighting was warm and it just it really made the Bam Harvey shine.
Marc:What a beautiful theater.
Marc:But with the lights and everything, it was just stunning.
Marc:It was almost like, why ruin it with my comedy?
Marc:And so I got there on Friday.
Marc:We're taping on Saturday.
Marc:And I watched them put a lot of the stuff up and start to get the vibe.
Marc:And then I went back over there on Saturday to do sound checks and feel the room and be present in it.
Marc:And it was just fucking beautiful.
Marc:The whole thing was fucking beautiful.
Marc:The set and the production design just melded perfectly with the sort of
Marc:theater, with the vibe of the theater, with the spirit of the structure.
Marc:And it was like, I was like, this is almost too good for me that we're going beyond what anyone is even going to read into a comedy show.
Marc:So I've been working this set for a long time and there's something that happens when you do a special where it's almost a, it's a hyper, it's heightened.
Marc:It's not a regular show.
Marc:You know, I'm in a room, Steve Fearnerts, my director had put together like nine cameras.
Marc:I've got the audience of about 700 some odd people.
Marc:And it's just heightened because everybody knows why we're there.
Marc:And I've been running this set so much.
Marc:And you get out there.
Marc:And the sad thing about shooting these specials, it's almost an out-of-body experience.
Marc:Because you're thinking about so many things.
Marc:I just wanted the sequence of the material to work.
Marc:And I was doing two shows.
Marc:And I wanted it to time out properly so we didn't have to cut too much.
Marc:And I was given 70 minutes and I've been working on this thing.
Marc:And whatever it is, a testament to whoever I am or how I work.
Marc:And I was dealing with an hour and a half, hour and 45 minutes of material up until a couple of weeks ago.
Marc:And I we shot the first I composed some rock music with some band.
Marc:that I put together with help from my friend Paige Stark.
Marc:And we laid out this kind of rock riff to open the thing.
Marc:I did that with the last special too.
Marc:And then a longer version of it at the end.
Marc:So we got the music.
Marc:Kathy Ladman opened.
Marc:We got the music going.
Marc:The lights were going.
Marc:Everybody was ready.
Marc:I went out there.
Marc:And all of a sudden, it's like I'm just locked into this mode.
Marc:There's nothing comfortable about it.
Marc:But it's not uncomfortable.
Marc:There's an intensity to the focus of it.
Marc:And I nailed it pretty good the first show.
Marc:But of course, I wasn't happy.
Marc:I stumbled on this word.
Marc:I didn't do this thing right.
Marc:This was that.
Marc:But the bottom line is I came in at 70 minutes on the fucking dot.
Marc:And that's crazy.
Marc:There's so much stuff in this special.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Marc:I amazed myself.
Marc:I've got this inner clock.
Marc:But the show went good and the audience was great.
Marc:But second show, you know, I had my buddy Sam Lipsight in the dressing room.
Marc:I had Brendan in the dressing room.
Marc:Brendan McDonald.
Marc:This woman, Katie, did a great job with hair and makeup.
Marc:And but, you know, I got notes.
Marc:I got notes from Brendan.
Marc:I got notes from Sam.
Marc:I got notes from from Steve, my director.
Marc:And I made some trims on second show was kind of on fire.
Marc:I kind of fucked up the sequence and I kind of dropped a joke out.
Marc:And, you know, but, you know, it's a taping.
Marc:But the sad thing is, is when I realized it and then I tried to do it again and I fucked it up again.
Marc:You know, I had to stop, not stop the show.
Marc:The cameras are still running, but I had to tell the audience like, all right, so we're going to go back and do that.
Marc:You know, I kind of fucked this up.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, it's not like the fourth wall is broken.
Marc:But then, you know, something more relaxed happens and it might have helped.
Marc:for the rest of the set on the second show.
Marc:The second show is probably the one we're going to use for the most part because it was kind of on fire.
Marc:But I think a lot of it had to do with I kind of broke.
Marc:I broke out of the routine, which is something I do in my live shows all the time because it's all fluid.
Marc:But when you're doing one of these specials, you want to hit all your bits and you don't want to fuck around too much.
Marc:So when Natural Fucking Around came because I fucked it up,
Marc:You know, something was lifted and then I re-locked in with a different energy.
Marc:I got to remember if I ever do a special again or if I'm ever allowed to do one again or offered the opportunity to.
Marc:I'm not the kind of guy that's going to put one up on YouTube.
Marc:But I got to remember that.
Marc:And I kind of do remember that.
Marc:But there's a looseness that gets lost sometimes.
Marc:But it sort of came back because of this little fuck-up I did.
Marc:And it made me kind of go, all right.
Yeah.
Marc:But I hit all the material I wanted to hit.
Marc:Some of it's pretty challenging and some of it's pretty interesting.
Marc:And I just wanted to make sure that between the two shows, we could have stuff to work with.
Marc:And I think we do.
Marc:I think it went great.
Marc:I want to thank all the people that came out to the Bam Harvey and saw the shows.
Marc:I really appreciate it.
Marc:After the second show, we had to redo the opening a bit.
Marc:And then I ended up doing just a half hour, a little bit of material I didn't do, a little bit of Q&A.
Marc:And then all of a sudden you realize, hey, buddy, you got union guys working.
Marc:We're running out of time.
Marc:And that's the weird come down.
Marc:So I finish the show.
Marc:I'm packing up my stuff.
Marc:We got to get out of the theater.
Marc:And I was maybe downstairs getting my shit together for a half hour, 40 minutes.
Marc:My brother came with his partner and some of his stepkids and, you know, there was people.
Marc:But, you know, as I'm walking out through the top of the room, they'd already kind of like broke down the stage.
Yeah.
Marc:And then this, like, this fucking sadness comes over you.
Marc:You know, like, that was it.
Marc:I hope we got it.
Marc:You know, I worked on that thing for a year and a half or more.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:That was what I was working towards.
Marc:And now, like, the rug for the stage is already gone.
Marc:The lights are already down.
Marc:Everything's going away.
Marc:There's a crew of people tearing it down.
Marc:And then I'm just kind of like, did I do it?
Marc:Was it good?
Marc:And then I get back to the hotel and it's just this horrendous, horrendous empty sadness that happens when you finish something like that.
Marc:And all your whole life just comes screaming back at you.
Marc:It's almost like you land back in your life with all the things that were causing you anxiety or problems or all the things you were kind of pushing aside.
Marc:Or I'm talking about me, you know, leading up to this thing, at least the last week, just to keep the focus.
Marc:And there's a sadness to it.
Marc:I feel good about it.
Marc:But, you know, just now I've got to retire this set and.
Marc:But again, great experience, great theater, great crew, great audiences.
Marc:I appreciate all of you.
Marc:You hear me?
Marc:Do you hear me?
Marc:All right.
Marc:So, you know, strap in.
Marc:This is a pretty beautiful conversation and interesting, but it kind of goes a place.
Marc:And I don't think either of us were anticipating it.
Marc:This is with Bridget Everett, who I mentioned earlier.
Marc:All three seasons of Somebody Somewhere are streaming on Macs.
Marc:You can go to BridgetEverett.net to see where she'll be touring this summer.
Marc:And this is me and Bridget meeting for the first time and talking.
Marc:i thought i smelled a dead rat so i was just down in the basement with that panicky like there's something more frightening about finding a dead one oh yeah than there is about finding a living one it's just the worst yeah it's horror it's pure horror i'm not good with uh small little fuzzy things yeah things well i mean well you grew up in the midwest didn't you have those mice and everything all over the place i
Guest:I mean, not really.
Guest:Really?
Guest:But I just got a house in upstate New York, and I've had to learn about mice, and it's been a challenge.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Well, I mean, the living ones are dead.
Marc:Both.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I got a pool, and there was one floating in it the other day.
Guest:I was like, I'm not cut out for this.
Marc:Yeah, the floating mouse in the pool.
Guest:Yeah, and they're like, get ready for the frogs.
Guest:I'm like, I can't.
Guest:I just can't.
Marc:Yeah, frogs, toads.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They'll show up in the filters.
Guest:Oh, jeez.
Guest:Do you have a pool here?
Marc:No.
Marc:I had one when I was growing up.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:And there were frogs around.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they'd kind of show up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sad business.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Are we live?
Guest:Is this live or are we just getting warmed up?
Marc:No, we're good.
Marc:We're recording.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So it's happening.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, what will be used?
Marc:I mean, I think this is pretty good stuff.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Marc:We're doing it.
Guest:I mean, I can talk about all the dead things I've been finding at the house.
Guest:No, really?
Guest:What else?
Guest:No, it's mostly actually live things.
Guest:Like there's like possums.
Guest:There's the bear on the block.
Marc:Possums are kind of both like cute and horrifying at the same time.
Guest:Well, yeah, I have like, there's two sort of feral cats.
Guest:Actually, we're down to one right now.
Guest:I know that there's another one.
Guest:I'm praying he comes back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's always got like, you know, the marks on the front.
Guest:So he's a fighter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But right now, one of them, I call him Sweetie and Honey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And right now, Honey's on the loose.
Guest:But they don't live in the house?
Guest:They don't live in the house.
Guest:They're just, they came with the house when I bought the house.
Marc:They were around.
Guest:They're like, oh, by the way, there are these two cats.
Guest:I'm like, how come they were never there when I, but I grew up with cats and I love cats, but I can't let them.
Marc:Well, I mean, you don't know what you're going to do with the ferals.
Marc:You don't know how they're going to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I have a dog, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But they're like, they're so tough.
Marc:It's kind of crazy.
Marc:In my old house, there was a black deaf cat, a feral, wild as shit.
Marc:Couldn't hear anything.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Lived for years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's crazy.
Marc:How the hell was he?
Marc:Eventually, they got him.
Guest:But, you know, it's like, oh, God, that's what I'm so afraid of.
Guest:There's a pack of, what do you call them, a den, I guess, or is that what you call them?
Guest:There's all sorts of wildlife up there.
Guest:And I have a little Pomeranian.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:But I'm more worried about the cats because they're out there just, you know, sort of living.
Guest:But it also makes me feel good that they're there kind of.
Guest:protecting but they do like to kill the mice and just sort of leave them oh well yeah well that but you know they're they're wild animals feral ones i mean it's not a lot you can do other than feed them yeah and and almost touch them yeah well they they actually let me touch them but then i leave food out for them and like um i have these cameras of course you know because you have cameras yeah and that's when i found out i also have a possum because he does a cleanup kind of waddles around
Guest:The one cat, like, sweetie just takes what she wants.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, things, it's like sort of just there.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then the possum just comes up and I'm like, fuck.
Marc:Yeah, the buffet.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you see the bear on the camera?
Guest:My neighbor sent me, the bear is back.
Guest:Because I'm new, so they, you know, they had the bear last year.
Marc:Were you just a little upstate somewhere?
Guest:A little upstate, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you know.
Marc:Close to the city?
Guest:90 minutes that's good yeah train car car yeah i leased a car you know yeah why not live the life i know but i but you know then i i bought this house and then i got no job so you know we'll but maybe today will lead to something spectacular oh this is going to be a big day i got a mortgage mark this is where it all turns around yeah okay good
Marc:It's so funny about your show, Somebody Somewhere.
Marc:I didn't watch it forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of people didn't.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Well, it's just the nature of finding things or what's going to connect to you, how it's going to connect to you.
Marc:I don't know that I knew anything about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I wanted to talk to you and I thought like, well, you know, let's do it.
Marc:Good.
Marc:I'm glad.
Marc:And I watched all three seasons.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Marc:Like back to back.
Guest:I couldn't stop watching it.
Guest:Really?
Marc:That makes me very happy.
Marc:Crying.
Marc:I'm just crying.
Marc:It's a great show.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:And now I'm like, how is no one watching this?
Marc:I'm giving lip service.
Marc:I'm telling people, you got to watch it.
Marc:And they're like, really?
Marc:What is it?
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:Well, that's why nobody's watching it.
Marc:But it's a very touching, funny, great story with great characters.
Marc:And so I'm doing what I can.
Guest:I appreciate it.
Marc:To spread the word.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:But no more seasons?
Guest:That's it.
Guest:But, you know, I'm not giving up on a movie or something at Hail Mary down the road.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:We have ideas.
Guest:I have ideas.
Guest:And I just feel like, you know...
Guest:I feel like it was a real gift that we got to do it at all.
Guest:Honestly, you know, it's such a small show, small characters, blah, blah, blah.
Marc:Aren't they small characters?
Marc:Some of them are big.
Guest:Well, yeah, that's true.
Guest:But small moments, maybe, you know, not really like no explosions.
Guest:That's funny.
Marc:That's how they should have sold it.
Marc:Big characters, small moments.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, that's sort of originally like we wanted people to discover it.
Guest:And that is kind of the case.
Guest:It is a real word of mouth situation.
Guest:But, you know, it definitely has taken some time for it to get around.
Guest:But it's the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Guest:It like changed my mind.
Marc:life my outlook it helped me with my grief with my with finding a little more happiness so it's been it's it's been really good for me so i hope other people see a little of that and get something from it no no it's completely uplifting and touching and it's like it the the characters feel you know grounded and real the writing's really kind of good it doesn't you know you don't fall into any traps of like
Marc:You know, like, well, this couldn't happen.
Marc:Or, like, you're not jumping any sharks or anything like that.
Marc:It's just a nice sort of arc to the whole thing.
Marc:And the character changes, kind of.
Guest:Slowly, like... But, you know, that's important.
Guest:But that's also, like...
Guest:You know, when I watch TV and I see people like there's a lesson at the end of the episode and people grow and change, like for me personally, like I'm a more inch by inch kind of person and really don't make growth is very slow for me.
Marc:Well, but it's not like no one really changes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like in the face of tragedy or grief that, you know, it's all consuming, you know, having been having been through it myself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, when you're in it at the beginning, there's no way to control it and there's no way out.
Marc:And then as time goes on, you know that what you're going to do is you're going to live with it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So in that grief, all these other parts of your being sort of come forward, you know, the hopelessness, like what's the point and all that other stuff that's always there, but may not be fully part of you.
Marc:But just the process of moving through grief is a dramatic change.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To get to a point where you're not free of it, but you can live with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think this show for me taught me how to face it and be with it.
Guest:And there was sort of a... I know you've...
Guest:Dealt with grief.
Guest:Sure, everybody does.
Marc:It's the most common thing that people want to avoid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in my universe, like, it's just not my current circle of friends.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because they're more, you know, they're artists and they're, you know, we talk.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But where I'm from, it wasn't like...
Guest:How are you feeling?
Guest:That's like just something that just wasn't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's if you get that question, it's a one or two word answer and you move by.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Good.
Guest:No, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's for dinner?
Guest:You know, just all of that.
Guest:But you grew up in Kansas.
Guest:I grew up in Kansas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm from Manhattan, Kansas.
Marc:The place that's in the show.
Guest:Yeah, the places in the show.
Guest:We were going to try it in Emporia, Kansas, and then we visited Manhattan while we were scouting.
Guest:And this is where it should be because it's a military town and a college town, and it's where I'm from.
Marc:And you know it.
Guest:And I know it.
Marc:So there's a comfort level there.
Marc:There's a comfort level.
Marc:So is it based on you?
Marc:How did the show come into being?
Marc:I wasn't familiar.
Marc:I'm not a big cabaret guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Surprising.
Guest:I probably could be.
Guest:Get in line.
Guest:Not a lot of people are.
Guest:I mean, it's a niche.
Guest:It's a niche.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:But I know about it, and I would probably enjoy it, but I tend to not really do a lot of things that I would enjoy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I know they're out there and I know when I've experienced them, I feel, you know, moved and emotional.
Marc:It's too much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're just getting there.
Marc:That's the problem with me.
Marc:It's like, all right, so how are we going to go to the place?
Marc:And then is there parking?
Marc:All of it.
Marc:All of it.
Marc:And then I leave early.
Marc:We've got to beat the crowd.
Marc:So it's all about what happens on either side.
Marc:But I didn't know your background.
Marc:But yeah, let's talk about that.
Marc:So you grew up in Manhattan, Kansas.
Marc:What were you doing there?
Marc:Regular stuff?
Marc:Like were your parents...
Guest:Farmers?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:My parents were divorced.
Guest:My dad was a lawyer.
Guest:My mom was a music teacher.
Guest:I'm the youngest of six kids.
Guest:Six?
Guest:Yeah, I was, you know, kind of... Wow.
Guest:I had a lot of, you know, I sort of like to say that I was friends with everybody, but friends with no one.
Guest:I was popular, but I kind of felt like a loner, if that makes any sense.
Marc:Yeah, I know exactly what it means.
Marc:It's like there's the thing that you that engages with people, then there's the thing inside going like, they don't like me.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Which leads to, I don't know.
Guest:Strange kind of loneliness.
Guest:Strange kind of loneliness, yeah.
Guest:And I feel like, yeah, I've always kind of felt lonely, I guess, but not when I sing.
Guest:Even with all those siblings?
Yeah.
Guest:You know, I was the youngest and like, so that, you know, they made, they picked on me.
Guest:They, you know, we, it's not like that now.
Marc:Like by the time you were 10, one of them was gone already or two, right?
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:You know, they were, yeah.
Guest:Cause my oldest sister was 14 years older than me.
Guest:So, you know, my next, my brother, number five of six is five years older.
Guest:So, you know, I was kind of, I was a, an, an, uh, not an, well, an accident, sort of try to keep the family together kind of thing.
Guest:Didn't work out.
Guest:So how's that for yourself?
Guest:Well, you couldn't keep the family together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hail Mary, baby.
Guest:Hail Mary, baby.
Guest:But yeah, so I grew up there.
Guest:And then I was in show choir and did all that.
Guest:And I was a swimmer.
Guest:And I went to school.
Marc:I went to Arizona State on a... But you knew early on that singing kind of got you out of yourself?
Guest:It just was.
Guest:It was just the only thing that...
Guest:that felt real.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:It was just like... It is real.
Marc:I feel like I was terrified of it for my whole life.
Marc:And I play guitar and stuff.
Marc:And even when I watch people sing, when I sing, I feel like it's the most exposing, vulnerable thing I can do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I do not love the feeling.
Marc:I've gotten better at it.
Marc:But as a comic or somebody who lives on stage, to show that part of myself, it feels so fragile and weird.
Marc:But that's not where my showman stuff comes.
Marc:I don't sing confidently.
Guest:Yeah, but who cares?
Guest:I mean, it's not about that.
Guest:For me, it's always about connection.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:singing and music, to me, are the best way to connect with other people.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:It doesn't matter how great you are.
Guest:I mean, obviously, I love to hear incredible singers, but for me, I'd rather go see somebody that is...
Guest:It's in their heart.
Guest:You can feel it.
Marc:It's so moving.
Marc:If I go to a musical, and even watching your show, when you finally get up on stage, I'm like, oh, God.
Marc:I've just become this crying man.
Marc:I try to do it alone.
Marc:Are you a crier?
Marc:I am, but not in situations that would warrant it.
Marc:I feel...
Marc:If I'm in a situation with a human and that feeling comes up, I'll try to keep it down.
Marc:But if I'm watching a show or a movie.
Marc:It's all out.
Marc:Yeah, it happens.
Guest:Do you put this roll of paper towels here in case I start crying?
Marc:Well, I usually have Kleenex out here.
Marc:I think Tom Green was in here the other day and his dog threw up.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Well, look, it works for all holes.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:But so all your siblings just kind of beat up on you or just kind of the run to hand me down clothes, the whole business?
Guest:Our family is like the way you show affection is by making fun of each other.
Guest:And I didn't really get my skill set how to fight back until I got a microphone in New York City.
Guest:It wasn't like fighting back, but it was like a way of sort of
Guest:having, um, power or having control, you know, like, or your space, like you own your, you know, your space.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I do talk like in my live show, the, my cabaret stuff, I talk about my family a lot and, you know, similar, I was listening to your, um, so was it with David Harbor, you know, like the stuff before and everything.
Guest:Cause I was really responding to what you're talking about before about the long form and the tick tock.
Guest:And it's, it's something that really like, um,
Guest:eats at me like just like the way that everything is in small little bites now and my cabaret show is it's about the experience the beginning to the end and like and to hopefully make people feel unlocked and joyful but to connect with them you know and like in my own personal way so and have an arc of emotion and have an arc of emotion and that's really important to me yeah and they're just training people to you know they're breaking people's brains
Marc:they it does feel like and they're breaking artist brains yeah who feel like they have to sort of do that i mean it was so much better like i'm glad everybody has the freedom to make their own stuff on their phone or on their camera but sometimes the gatekeepers kind of made it better because you know it's like we want to do a whole show we're going to produce though and people would go see it and now i don't know i don't know what's happening i know it's not good
Guest:I know.
Guest:I sound like one of those people like now I'm just like, hey.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, how can you not if you came up in a different time?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But but so when you're when you're growing up, you and you're singing in different places.
Marc:When do you realize, like, it's a thing you're going to do?
Guest:Well, I got a scholarship for like a choral scholarship, like vocal performance.
Guest:So I went to the choir scholarship.
Guest:I got my degree in vocal performance, like opera singing.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So when you went to college?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Marc:Arizona State.
Marc:Oh, in Tucson?
Marc:Tempe.
Marc:Yeah, Tempe.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:University of Arizona.
Marc:I've been to Tempe plenty.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There's a comedy club there.
Marc:Yeah, and I have a lot of history.
Marc:I had an ex-wife from there.
Marc:Oh, jeez.
Marc:My brother had a wife from there.
Guest:Oh, jeez.
Marc:A lot of Arizona in my past.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I loved it there.
Guest:I haven't been back since I left, oddly enough.
Guest:But, yeah, I just...
Guest:I knew I wanted to be a singer, but the only real singing I was doing there was, like, I worked at the original P.F.
Guest:Chang's.
Guest:The original?
Marc:The first P.F.
Guest:Chang's?
Guest:The first one.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:That's intense?
Guest:It's in Scottsdale, actually.
Guest:In Scottsdale?
Guest:The fashion square there.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So that was when it was, like, kind of a, like, this is a great new restaurant here.
Guest:It was hot.
Guest:It was, like, Charles Barkley and all his friends.
Guest:And he brought on all these people.
Guest:And so I got to know a lot of professional athletes.
Guest:And they would have me...
Guest:they asked me to sing like the national anthem at some of the spring training games and like different.
Guest:So that was the only singing I was doing.
Guest:And opera too?
Guest:I would sing, you know, class, you know, like in a classical style voice.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Um, but did you ever do opera?
Guest:I mean, yeah, but like, that's, that's what I, you know, I did.
Guest:You have to do your, your, your, um, you know, concerts and all that shit, you know, but, um, but I would go wild on the weekends and go to karaoke bars.
Guest:And that's, that was my passion.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What were your songs?
Guest:You know, you ought to know, peace of my heart, the classics.
Marc:But I mean... I was always terrified of karaoke.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Well... Terrified.
Marc:People hate it, but I... But I know that people do it because it's fun, and they don't necessarily sing well, but it's just fun to do, and everybody knows that's the score with karaoke.
Marc:But in my brain, it's like, if I don't sing well, I'm going to walk off of that fun thing and just be like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Why the fuck?
Guest:I'm terrible.
Guest:Yeah, but...
Guest:All those people that are there to just like fucking, you know, vocally masturbate.
Guest:Nobody cares.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:You love the guy or the woman that are just, they're going for it.
Guest:And it gives me so much joy.
Guest:I go with my friend.
Guest:We used to go to this place called The Parlor every Sunday night when I moved to New York.
Guest:And my friend Zach used to sing, you know, Creep by Radiohead.
Guest:And just like every single time, it was like the first time he sang it.
Guest:There was so much passion.
Guest:And I just...
Guest:I just love that.
Guest:I love the way that music lights people up.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:But I remember there was one guy in our communities.
Marc:I haven't seen him in years.
Marc:But they would have parties or they have a thing at a karaoke bar with comics and stuff.
Marc:And this guy could sing.
Marc:And he would just go, like, nail this fucking Zeppelin song or something.
Marc:And I'd just be like, nah, fuck him.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I feel that way, too, you know?
Guest:I mean, give me the show.
Guest:Where's the show?
Guest:I mean, like, I used to rip my shirt open.
Guest:I was, like, in it.
Guest:I was passionate.
Guest:You know, I still do that, but, you know.
Guest:So when you finished college, you went back home?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, sometimes it works, right?
Yeah.
Guest:You'd be surprised how many times it does work.
Guest:I'm sure.
Guest:Wait, what?
Guest:No, after college, I moved.
Guest:I used to do this.
Guest:I worked at this resort in Maine called Quissasana.
Guest:It was like sort of.
Guest:Bar Harbor?
Guest:No, it was.
Guest:It's Lake Keys are sort of inland, but it was a beautiful lake.
Guest:Maine's pretty and weird.
Guest:So beautiful.
Guest:And Stephen King lived on the lake.
Guest:And it'd be like every summer you would hope to see either a moose or Stephen King.
Guest:And it was just so stupid.
Guest:Did you meet him?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I met him like, you know, I didn't meet him.
Guest:I saw him at like the little country store in the parking lot once.
Guest:He was polite.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm sure, you know, people, he moved to Maine for a reason.
Guest:Like, get away from me, people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But anyway, that was like sort of a dirty dancing style resort.
Guest:And so you would sing in shows at night.
Marc:So you were there as a singer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's like, you know, I would do shows, but we had wait tables during the day.
Guest:Right, right, right, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I moved to New York.
Marc:I was like, fuck it.
Marc:But you never went back.
Marc:Like, how did your family react to it?
Guest:To what?
Guest:To singing?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, to you pursuing that life.
Guest:I think they just thought that I was like...
Guest:I don't think they thought too much of it.
Guest:I thought that they just thought I was kind of like, you know, fumbling through life.
Guest:And like, because I was waiting to, I was a waitress for so many years.
Guest:I think they just, you know, they didn't, I'd be like, oh, you know, when I started to do cabaret shows, when I started performing, they didn't know how exciting it was to like get up on a stage in front of real people that bought a ticket, you know, like, and.
Marc:Did they ever come to New York?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, later.
Guest:Like, I don't think, actually, the only one that's seen me is my brother, Brock, who's been to see me in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, at one point, I finally made it into People Magazine, and they're like, okay.
Marc:The expectations are crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you could be working for 20 years doing just fine, and your parents are like, you know, my dad used to say things like, you should talk to, you know, Bill Maher.
Marc:He seems to know what's going on.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'm 30 years in.
Yeah.
Marc:Like there's some ticket.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and now it's impossible because no one knows where to watch anything.
Marc:Yeah, it's true.
Marc:And, you know, you're excited about a show and people are literally like, I've never heard of it.
Marc:And you're like, what do you mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a big show.
Marc:Well, where do you watch it?
Marc:It's like, it's so annoying.
Guest:Wait, no, Teemu's not a show.
Guest:That's like that where you buy clothes, isn't it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It sounds like it could be a network.
Guest:I can't remember all of them.
Marc:So when you went to New York, what were your expectations?
Guest:You know, I wanted to be on stage like a Broadway singer.
Guest:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I got my equity card right away doing some bus and truck thing.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:I played the Mother and Hansel Gretel traveling show.
Guest:We were all on a bus, and you would put the set out.
Guest:You'd go to schools.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:You'd put the set back in, and you'd drive to the next place.
Marc:And that was an equity gig?
Guest:It was an equity gig.
Marc:So did you get representation?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, I made like $180 a week or something crazy.
Marc:Would you get it through a children's theater audition?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I went to the Actors' Equity building.
Guest:I stood in line, I auditioned, and I got it.
Guest:And that happened like, that was like right away when I went to New York.
Marc:Was it like from that paper?
Marc:Where did you see the audition?
Guest:What was the fucking paper?
Marc:Backstage.
Marc:Backstage, right.
Guest:Yeah, that's what it was.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then after that, crickets.
Guest:Crickets.
Guest:Crickets for so long that I lost my equity card because I never worked again.
Guest:And back to waitressing?
Guest:Back to waitressing.
Guest:In New York City?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where at?
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:I worked at the majority of the time I worked at this place called Ruby Foo's.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I know Ruby Foo's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But there's a place, Rain, before that in Main Street.
Guest:That was another restaurant.
Guest:P.F.
Marc:Chang helped you at Ruby Foo's?
Guest:It did.
Guest:He saw that on my resume.
Guest:He's like, he circled.
Guest:I remember he's single.
Guest:He's like, oh, P.F.
Guest:Chang's.
Guest:Okay.
Okay.
Guest:And because you had to be like, it was for this... Ruby Foose was good.
Guest:It was good.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:I opened it and I closed it.
Guest:I was there for a very long time.
Guest:Like I said, I waited tables for 25, 30 years.
Marc:What year are we talking when you get to New York?
Guest:Like 97, something like that.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:I was still around.
Guest:Oh, were you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I went back...
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, 95, 97.
Marc:When did I leave?
Marc:I mean, I didn't really leave till 2001.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I was I'd moved to Queens.
Marc:I was living in Astoria doing comedy.
Marc:Was there so where when you're working and you do the Hansel and Gretz show, then you like you didn't work for like a year.
Guest:I just didn't work at all.
Guest:Were you miserable?
Guest:Yes, but not on Sunday nights when I would do karaoke.
Guest:That was my lifeline.
Guest:I know it sounds... You had a place?
Guest:Yeah, we went to this place every Sunday night, the parlor, and I was really... It was it for me, but luckily...
Guest:And I was starting to go to see a lot of shows.
Guest:My friend Zach that I mentioned before, he took me to see Kiki and Herb, which is a very legendary duo in New York, and Murray Hill, who's on my show as Trevor Coco.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, she's funny.
Guest:They're funny.
Guest:So I met him, and he put me on his show.
Guest:On a cabaret show.
Guest:On a cabaret show.
Guest:He used to do these shows like Mo Pickens.
Guest:Do you remember Mo Pickens?
Guest:It was in the East Village.
Guest:Maybe that was just after you left.
Marc:I kind of remember.
Guest:So I started to get up and do songs.
Guest:I was doing these dumb original songs.
Marc:With what?
Marc:Piano accompaniment?
Guest:Yeah, with this guy, Kenny Malman, and we sort of started... So you were writing songs?
Guest:We were writing songs, but some of the first songs were like, At Least It's Pink, which is... And then Canhole, which I still love, is about butt sex.
Guest:It's so stupid.
Guest:But it was fun.
Guest:To me, some of these things were kind of bass, but they were also...
Guest:It made me laugh.
Guest:So I didn't care.
Marc:Well, what was the audience?
Marc:Who was the audience?
Guest:You know, largely gay men and queer people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was just thinking today because I was on the plane, you know, flying here.
Guest:And the crew happened to be, you know, a couple gay men.
Guest:And I was like, man, I'm so happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They saved me.
Guest:They saved me.
Guest:They changed my life.
Guest:They gave me an audience.
Guest:They gave me support.
Guest:They made me feel like what I was doing was worth something.
Guest:And it changed my life.
Marc:Well, they're a great audience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If they take you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Because there are certain...
Marc:There's certain comics.
Marc:There's a certain type of female performer that resonates.
Guest:Yeah, I always try to think of what it is that appealed for me specifically to a gay audience or to a queer audience.
Guest:I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but I think that there is something about being exactly who you are and not giving a shit.
Guest:Do I feel that way in my day-to-day life?
Guest:Probably not.
Guest:But on stage, I feel...
Guest:you know, when I used to go to the grocery store with my mom, she would never wear a bra.
Guest:She was just very sort of like, she had done like the socialite, you know, Manhattan, Kansas socialite thing.
Guest:But by the time I came around on the divorce and all the kids, she did not give a fuck.
Guest:So she was walking around town.
Guest:We called him her beaver tails with her fucking tits hanging out and just, you know, and she just didn't care.
Guest:And that really sort of, sort of shaped me as like, as far as like my body and, and,
Guest:And how people accept me.
Guest:And so for me, part of the stage stuff I was doing is really just kind of like it was born out of her going to Food for Less with her nightgown on with no bra and slippers.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No, that makes sense.
Marc:There's a freedom in it.
Guest:Yeah, and also watching her progression from growing, being like a wound up sort of Midwestern school teacher or whatever to just, you know, her favorite cuss word was motherfucker shitter ass or by the time she just didn't give a fuck anymore.
Guest:Was she angry?
Guest:Oh, always.
Guest:Till the day she died.
Guest:But also very, very funny.
Guest:And probably kind of a narcissist, but I guess I like that.
Guest:Boozy?
Guest:Oh yeah, she was a major drinker until she went to...
Guest:you know rehab she like you know my my brother and sister took her to rehab and yeah and she just cleaned she went because she was ready i mean she was like it was bad yeah yeah yeah it was like lock your lock all the doors right oh really don't go to work and yeah yeah that kind of vibe yeah well that's like that's uh that's a heavy uh thing to grow up with i guess yeah i mean
Guest:It is, but there were bigger problems, you know.
Guest:Well, were there?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Well, it just becomes, if it gets to the point, well, maybe you were older, but like when the erratic behavior starts, where you just didn't know what you were going to get, it kind of creates a sort of like pensiveness.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:A slight fear of like, what's going to happen?
Marc:And you kind of carry that with you.
Guest:Yeah, you just bottle everything up until you can find a place to put it.
Guest:Some people put that and they work on themselves.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Some people work on that with other people and connect to other people.
Guest:And I just connect with strangers.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, me too.
Marc:I can be more intimate and vulnerable with a room full of strangers than I can in my personal relationships.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a fucking nightmare in a way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, for some reason, I...
Marc:When I'm just with people that I'm building relationships with or whatever, the vulnerability is too frightening somehow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I'm going to be pummeled.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:I mean, and there is a moment in my TV show, like where I, we put in the script, I was like, this feels too on the nose.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but Carolyn Strauss, who was our producer.
Guest:I know her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's great.
Guest:Godmother, you know, sort of like, she'd be like, you say that because that's what you mean.
Guest:And like, it's just like, I just don't want you to leave me.
Guest:And I feel like that is, you know, I could cry because that's the way I feel about everybody.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and sometimes – well, then the fear of leaving will stop you from engaging.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's the fucking worst.
Guest:Yeah, I walk in a room sometimes with some of my closest friends and I feel like I'm back to one because I feel like I pull myself back constantly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're not doing anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's me.
Marc:You're projecting all kinds of shit, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I've worn these people out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, whatever it is, I'm like, well, they –
Guest:Love their partner more than they love me or, you know, not even that.
Guest:It's just like I can be replaced or I can be forgotten about, you know, and it's it's a. And so there is a lot of that erased in the show, which, you know, I think I think you asked at some point, like, you know, is it based on me or whatever?
Guest:But but.
Guest:Everything I do is really just born out of fear and how I'm trying to protect myself.
Guest:And I think my live show, the cabaret stuff is like, I mean, I sing songs like what I got to do to get that dick in my mouth.
Guest:But I also always when I'm with my band.
Guest:Classic.
Guest:Yeah, classic.
Guest:But I also always like.
Guest:There's a big chunk in the middle of my show about my family and my sister and my dad and all these things and my mom now because they're all gone.
Guest:And I cry probably 75% of the time when I'm singing the song because I'm just like – I allow myself.
Guest:I give myself the permission to – because even though there's a room full of people there, it's like –
Guest:I feel safer there, as you're mentioning before, like more.
Marc:Well, it's your space.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You kind of own it.
Guest:And they're not going to leave because they just spent however much money to buy a fucking ticket.
Marc:They're like, well, I'm in.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because I know in the show –
Marc:You know, people who grow up with that, like, because I have it too.
Marc:There's, I know I have this neediness that I've, you know, kind of boxed up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it lives in me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I've learned from experience that, you know, I could be an exhausting friend.
Guest:Okay, why?
Guest:How?
Guest:Like, what do you mean?
Marc:Well, just, I mean, like, I was always the kind of guy that, like, you know, I'd get one friend.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that relationship on my side was sort of, like, totally engaged.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:But I just needed that one guy.
Marc:And if that started to wobble, I'd be like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:Like, I remember that.
Marc:But at some point, I killed that part of me.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So I'm just giving myself a little, let's see, it's a tick.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So do you, so now do you parse it out a little bit more?
Marc:Well, I think over as I get older, you know, I have friends for many years now, but it's still, I used to do a joke about it.
Marc:I used to do like, you know, I don't know how, when people say they have a lot of friends, I'm like, no, you don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I say, you only need two friends.
Marc:You need the main guy and the guy you go to when you drain the main guy.
Marc:You're like, hey, man, can I talk to you?
Marc:He's like, well, I'm kind of busy right now.
Marc:That's all right.
Marc:I'll call the other guy.
Marc:You take a break.
Marc:That kind of thing.
Guest:Well, see, I feel like I need to keep a little bit of a deeper roster in case, you know, one leaves me like I think that they all will.
Yeah.
Marc:So you're carrying a few?
Guest:I'm carrying a few.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But also like... Long phone list.
Guest:They put in the work.
Guest:When I grew up in Kansas, like I said, my mom used to say, she said a lot of things, but one was like, you can't trust anybody but yourself.
Guest:And I guess that does sort of stick with you if you've heard enough times.
Guest:But my friends in New York really...
Guest:have you know they're all therapized and you know they they and that was not something you grew up with i've never been to therapy except for when i was in this day well i went in grade school like when they made us like they had us like when we were all fighting too much and which is probably my fault you know because i was from a you know a chaotic household i was probably lashing out too much and so we all had to go see a child psychologist but not in my not in my adult life really yeah um i should yeah um
Marc:I've gone sporadically sometimes for long periods of time.
Marc:But as you get older, you're like – that was another bit I did.
Marc:When you go to a therapist as an older person, you kind of know yourself.
Marc:You know why you're going.
Marc:So it's sort of like, look, I know there's some things we're not going to be able to unfuck.
Marc:I'm having these –
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm having these specific things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So maybe give me some perspective on that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And sometimes it helps.
Marc:I just started again, actually.
Guest:Well, I sort of liked, you know, what David was saying about, you know, the sort of the old school style where you go and you don't really look at them.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And you live in the thing and you sort of never see them.
Marc:Yeah, he's doing real old school.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think that could work.
Guest:But there's something about me, too, that's also afraid of because I feel like
Guest:I have so many emotional tripwires, which is sort of helpful in writing and creating and singing and all that.
Guest:It helps me feel like they're just all right there.
Guest:They're sort of just so I can grab them.
Guest:I'm afraid if I get fixed, does that mean I'm not going to be able to – Oh, you're never going to get that fixed.
Yeah.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:There's a lot that needs to be addressed.
Marc:Those wired-in resources are always going to be there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You just might have a little more control over them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm talking about that right now in my act about like how because I'm trying a very specific medication.
Marc:And there's the fear like it is.
Marc:Does all my creative creativity come from that place?
Marc:And then I say, am I just mining for gold in a river of panic?
Yeah.
Marc:You like that one.
Marc:I do.
Marc:It's not a big laugh line, but it's an interesting image.
Guest:No, I love it.
Guest:And also, you know, one of my favorite things is that my friends, my friend Larry does this and my friend Zach, like when they make themselves laugh, I just, I'm so delighted by people that, that can recognize their own when they've really, when they've said something cute.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, sometimes it's sort of, you're trying to prompt it.
Guest:Let them know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the funny part.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it's a trick, and I don't really like when I do it on stage, you know?
Marc:Because, you know, you do the same, like, you do the act over and over again, and then you find yourself laughing in the right place.
Marc:Like, yeah, okay, so you're uncomfortable there.
Marc:Let's just let them have it.
Marc:You don't have to shield yourself.
Guest:I was, like, there was, like, one, like, thing in my show.
Guest:I can't remember what it was, like, my live thing, and I was just, like...
Guest:And then I started just put it in.
Guest:Like I just started like would make myself laugh.
Guest:I was like, stop.
Guest:Like, yeah, I don't like anything that feels false.
Marc:So I just got rid of it.
Marc:But I put things in my show that never get laughs, but I like them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's one thing I keep that I can't get rid of.
Guest:I'm like, that one's for me.
Guest:I say that after that.
Guest:That one's for me.
Guest:Take it.
Marc:It's yours.
Marc:But when you start, what's the evolution?
Marc:I don't know the cabaret scene.
Marc:Were there comics around that I might know in the cabaret scene?
Marc:Stand-ups ever?
Guest:Well, somebody who's killing it right now is Cola Scola.
Guest:Do you know Cola Scola?
Guest:It's O'Mary on Broadway.
Guest:They just got nominated for a bunch of Tonys today.
Guest:I'm trying to think of who else you might know in that world.
Marc:But, um... Did Schumer, like, did you know Amy Schumer?
Guest:I met Amy, so I went to the, um... I went to Just for Laughs.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:With your show.
Guest:With my show.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:When was that?
Guest:Um... I'm gonna... I can't really remember, honestly.
Marc:Well, that's interesting.
Marc:So you got into the festival.
Guest:Yeah, like 2011, maybe.
Guest:Oh, wow, okay.
Guest:Give or take, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Um...
Guest:actually you were there i remember because i was talking to somebody and you were coming off the you know the hyatt you were coming off the elevator yeah and um i remember seeing you but um anyway that's sort of where amy and i connected okay um she had seen me perform at this small theater in new york called ars nova another place yeah and um and we just hit it off we both like chardonnay we both have sort of a filthy sense of humor yeah and um and she took me on the road with her um
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So you did songs?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:I used to open for her, and then I started closing for her because it is hard to follow a singer.
Guest:And I do the airplane at the end.
Guest:I go out, and I'm in the audience, sing-alongs and all this shit.
Guest:But yeah, she's been really great to me, for me.
Guest:She's really helped me along the way.
Guest:She's very generous and paid me so I could...
Guest:Keep going.
Guest:Keep going and quit waiting tables.
Guest:Yeah, that's great.
Guest:She would be super generous.
Marc:Because there are so many scenes in New York.
Guest:Yeah, my scene is more like performance art, cabaret.
Guest:But I started a band in around... We're just celebrating around 15 years together.
Guest:And I don't know how much you know about my situation, but...
Guest:One of the founding members of my band, The Tender Moments, was King Ad Rock, Adam Horvitz from The Beastie Voice.
Guest:He played the bass, and he was somebody else who was very helpful to me.
Guest:I was writing these songs, or one of my more well-known cabaret songs is called Titties.
Guest:And I was...
Guest:I told him about it, and I was like, this is dumb.
Guest:He's like, no, that sounds like a hit.
Guest:But he validated me.
Guest:And then he helped.
Guest:They had their studio.
Guest:The Beastie Boys had oscilloscope.
Guest:In New York?
Guest:In New York.
Guest:So he's like, you have to write songs so you can do an album.
Guest:We recorded it there.
Guest:So I had it, you know, my first album.
Guest:He produced it?
Guest:He produced it.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So... When was that?
Guest:Oh, that's been years ago.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I'm still singing those same tired songs.
Guest:We feel like them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But anyway, he... So I...
Guest:So the kind of people that have helped me out along the way have been, you know, a variety of different, you know, than my friend Scott Whitman, who's from the Broadway world was he's helped me.
Guest:And yeah.
Guest:But like as far as like stand ups, like I knew a lot of them, but I didn't wasn't really my world.
Guest:And so going to just for laughs to me.
Guest:was so much anxiety.
Guest:I was up in my room hiding, and Amy's like, come down.
Guest:Because they have those huge parties, and everybody's there.
Guest:I'm like, I would rather jump out the window.
Guest:I do not want to fucking go talk to a bunch of comics and business, and biz types or whatever.
Guest:But she encouraged me to do it.
Marc:I always thought that they are sort of compatible.
Marc:I mean, so many cabaret acts are hilarious.
Marc:I mean, there is comedy all the way through it, usually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think my my show is meant to be funny.
Guest:Like, I think of myself as a singer first, but but I but I want people to to laugh and let go.
Marc:So but like when when you're doing like these karaoke nights and then you're doing bits on other people's shows, when how do you put together a whole cabaret show?
Marc:When does that happen?
Guest:So my friend Jason Egan, who was an artistic director, he's just now leaving Ars Nova after many years.
Guest:So it's a theater for emerging artists.
Guest:And he saw me sing karaoke.
Guest:And he's like, I think you should do a show.
Guest:And I was like, what are you talking about?
Guest:I just did a show.
Guest:You saw me.
Guest:I was on top of the bar.
Guest:That was so good.
Guest:But he encouraged me to put together a structured show there at Ars Nova.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And...
Guest:So he is kind of the first person that saw something beyond just getting up and singing a song in somebody's show, but really thought that I could do something.
Guest:And that night, John Steingart, who he and his wife own Ars Nova, he's like, this is something, and we should do something with her.
Guest:So he came to...
Guest:la and knew michael patrick or met michael patrick king from you know sex in the city and the comeback and everything and he's like i have somebody i think you should see and she she's raw but there's something there yeah and so i so kenny and michael and i all did this show called at least it's pink and and it just i've slowly just every night i was just out fucking doing something yeah
Guest:Because I loved it.
Guest:I would wait tables and then I would go sing on somebody's show.
Guest:You know how it is.
Guest:You take whatever you can.
Marc:The gigs, yeah.
Guest:The gigs.
Guest:And then it just kept going.
Marc:And you have a composer that you work with?
Guest:Well, now I've written songs with all different kinds of people.
Guest:I've written with Adam.
Guest:I've written with Kenny at the time.
Guest:I wrote with...
Guest:Scott Whitman and Mark Shaman.
Guest:I've written a lot of songs with my band, Matt Ray, Mike Jackson, Carmichiavelli, and Danton Bowler.
Marc:When you do the band, is it just an extension of the cabaret where you're doing stuff in between?
Guest:It's kind of a rock show with talking in between.
Guest:My mainstay is Joe's Pub in New York, but I'm going to be in L.A.
Guest:this summer.
Guest:I'm playing the Wiltern, which will be exciting.
Guest:I've played...
Guest:you know, Largo and El Rey here with the band, but this will be the first time we're going on a little mini tour, but it's, it's like, it's a ride, you know.
Marc:What's the name of the band?
Guest:The Tender Moments.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Big following?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, yeah, sure.
Guest:I mean, we played the Beacon last year, so I guess that's, that's good.
Guest:That's, you know, we're not at, we're not at Madison Square Garden, but I think we're doing good.
Guest:And whenever I sell, I sell people really like to see me at Joe's and,
Guest:You were at Joe's a long time, right?
Guest:I've been there a long time, and that's kind of like a thing.
Guest:People really want to see me there.
Guest:But I wanted to try something else, so I did the Beacon.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a big change.
Marc:What's Joe's seat?
Marc:A couple hundred?
Guest:A couple hundred.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Beacon's like 2,200.
Marc:Pretty exciting.
Guest:It's almost three.
Guest:It's bigger.
Marc:Yeah, 26.
Guest:But I was like...
Guest:Fuck it.
Guest:And it was great.
Marc:Well, you're a big act.
Guest:You know, big enough.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just a matter of whether you can fill the space.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:You know, and you feel it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I wasn't sure.
Marc:But you did it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, but, you know, in all this, it's a whole life that you're living.
Marc:So how, how does the show happen?
Guest:So I was at Largo with my band, and HBO came, and ultimately they gave me a holding deal.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But Caroline wasn't there still, was she?
Guest:No, but she's independent.
Guest:She was sort of an independent producer or whatever.
Marc:Because she was a head of HBO years ago.
Marc:I've known her for my whole life, it feels like.
Yeah.
Guest:So I first thing I did was with Carolyn and Michael, Patrick King and I sort of we had this and we did with Bobcat.
Guest:We did a pilot for Amazon that didn't end up going.
Marc:Bobby directed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Him and Michael together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that didn't get picked up.
Guest:Was it the same story?
Guest:No, this is different.
Guest:Um, what was that one?
Guest:I worked in a home with like down syndrome kids and Lonnie Anderson was my roommate and he sounds wild, but it was actually really sweet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love Lonnie Anderson.
Guest:I think like, I just, you know, you remember Lonnie Anderson?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love her.
Guest:I was just on eBay looking for a autographed picture of her today.
Marc:Did she pass away?
Guest:No, no, no, no, no.
Guest:She's around.
Guest:She's, she's, you can probably ask her for an autographed picture.
Guest:I know, I guess I could.
Guest:I have her number.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she's so great, and she's a fox.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anyway, so I didn't go, but I got this holding deal, so I called up Carolyn, and I was like, I just...
Guest:I got this deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Would you want to do something?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like not really realizing I was asking.
Guest:She's pretty legendary.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:She's like, if you want me, I'm in.
Guest:And then like we connected with Paul Therene and Hannah Boss, who are from kind of the same scene as me.
Guest:Ours Nova world.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they pitched the idea for the show.
Guest:They jumped up a world.
Guest:And then we all just sort of, I'd say the four of us are kind of the creative center of the show.
Marc:So you did like, you had a deal.
Marc:So you were working with these showrunners like Michael, right?
Guest:Well, that was the first one.
Guest:That was the first one.
Guest:And so the second one was Carolyn.
Guest:And then Paul Thorin and Hannah Boss.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:So they were the writers.
Guest:They were the writers.
Guest:So they came up with the idea of somebody somewhere.
Guest:But you were telling them your life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I think they knew a lot about my life because they'd seen my shows and they knew my deal and all that.
Guest:And so they knew I had a dead sister.
Guest:Check.
Guest:They knew that I love singing.
Guest:Check.
Guest:And then the only... They wrote a part for Murray Hill as Fred Rococo, who had been a longtime friend of mine.
Guest:And I heard those three elements and I was like, you know, shit.
Marc:This is... That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when...
Marc:When you cast it, because I don't know Jeff Hiller, but I know he does some pretty wild stuff.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In terms of, like, I think my girlfriend knows him from horror stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's, like, very different Jeff.
Marc:No, I know, but, like, you know, that sort of...
Marc:It seems to me that, you know, that relationship that you guys have in the show is so sweet, but it's also, you know, he's not going to let you push him away.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which is... Kind of like what we were talking about before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's, like, to me, like, he's sort of an amalgamation or whatever the right word is of my friend Zach that I was talking about and some of my other friends that, like, really...
Guest:even if I would fuck up and I was like, well, that's it.
Guest:I'd be like, no, I'm mad.
Guest:And I'm really fucking pissy right now, but that's, this is not it.
Guest:You know, we're, we're in this.
Guest:I'm like, what do you mean?
Marc:Let me go.
Guest:So let me go.
Guest:Let me just, let me do this again to myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let me fuck it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, um, the thing about Jeff, when he auditioned was that he, he, there's something so sweet and undeniable about him.
Guest:So, um,
Marc:Were you part of casting?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I was the one that suggested Jeff because I'd known him from around the scene.
Guest:He was like in the upright, you know.
Marc:Citizens were great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he was sort of like in that world.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So kind of we're just like our circles are sort of crossing.
Guest:And he was a guest on the show.
Guest:I used to do it just called Our Hit Parade.
Guest:But anyway, he auditioned.
Guest:He was incredible.
Guest:And I feel, you know, he's definitely like the sort of special sauce.
Guest:Like he is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He is such a big part of the foundation of why the show is successful.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's funny and sweet and complex.
Marc:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:You guys are great together.
Marc:But where did you get the... Did you feel, were you nervous about the acting?
Guest:Yes, very nervous.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:not his my mind like i was because i'm not a trained actor i mean i'd done some stuff i did this um i'd done like little i did the sex and city movie i did like small things i did this movie called patty cakes which really helped me um it was like a sundance kind of situation and
Guest:And the director, Jeremy Jasper, was like... He saw me on Amy's show, you know, Inside Amy Schumacher.
Guest:He said, close the season with a song.
Guest:And I think he saw me singing What I Gotta Do to Get That Dick in My Mouth.
Guest:And he's like, she should play the mother in my movie.
Guest:And I did, but... A no-brainer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he had a lot of patience with me and Danielle McDonald, who played Patty Cakes.
Guest:Like, they...
Guest:They were very gentle with me and sort of helped me.
Guest:Because I just am constantly racked with fear and self-doubt.
Guest:The reason I like to do my live show is because I'm in control and I don't have to worry about anybody being like, well, you're not doing it right.
Guest:Because if I hear I'm not doing it right, then I'm like, ooh.
Marc:Did you get a coach or anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:I just was like...
Guest:figure it out i just i'll just figure it out and then like i knew we they we you know paul and hannah and carolyn everybody created such a nj duplass directed our pilot everybody created such a warm environment it was like you couldn't you couldn't fuck up because you were you felt so cared for yeah and we just took our time even though we shoot like you know a thousand scenes a day but sure
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:How did you feel about acting at first?
Guest:I knew.
Guest:You're like, I knew I had it.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:I don't know that I have it, but I can do it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But I don't feel like I have a lot of range necessarily in terms of character, but I know that I can listen and I know I can be present and I know that I can emotionally engage with a scene.
Marc:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:But I knew also when I did my show on IFC that just from seeing other comics, I knew that there was going to be a learning curve and I would probably suck for about a season or two.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just because I don't know how to be in my body that way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I did, I thought.
Marc:But it was fine.
Marc:It was on IFC and I knew it going in.
Marc:It was one of the first times I was like, dude, you don't know how to do this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the stakes aren't that high.
Marc:So just figure it out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think I think I figured out something, you know, and I feel better about it.
Marc:But but but when you do some version of yourself, which I think everyone does, everyone mostly does, unless you're like, right.
Marc:But then, like, in terms of getting jobs, I'm sort of like, is this am I being creative?
Marc:Is it worth all the time I'm spending in the trailer?
Marc:You know, is it satisfying?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's hard for me to judge, you know, but when you're like you and like in my show as well, and I just recently did a little film where I'm the lead, if you're that busy, it's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But if you have time to sit in the trailer and be like, what the fuck?
Guest:What the fuck are they doing?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I've been here since six.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:What do you mean you're having lunch?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What could be going on?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, I'm looking for challenging things that will make me feel like I'm making very distinct choices and I'm sort of like, well, that's not really me.
Marc:And I've done some, you know, I think I did okay on Glow.
Guest:I think you did great.
Marc:Well, thanks.
Marc:But I'm not, I'm not, I, I,
Marc:I'm more confident now because I give less of a fuck, I think.
Guest:Yeah, that helps.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think in terms of everything, because you get to a certain age where you're like, what the fuck difference?
Marc:You know, you did it, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I still can't watch myself.
Guest:I don't like it either.
Guest:But there's something about doing the, because we edited everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there was, that forced me to kind of get over a lot of stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you were in the room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the thing with like the acting was like first season, like I had some good moments.
Guest:I had some bumpy moments.
Guest:But I think by season two and season three, I felt really comfortable.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because I didn't notice any.
Marc:So like, you know, what we notice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:From being in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then watching it.
Marc:And you're like, why didn't they go with the other?
Guest:well honestly like i thought like especially like in the last season like i was so in in love with everybody on the show and like and i like there were scenes i was doing with mary catherine who's my who played my sister trisha she's so fucking good she's so fucking good you know we used to be roommates we were in new york we lived together and she was like on broadway she was killing it she's so funny
Guest:But she's always been one of my favorite actors.
Guest:But she, I would just like sometimes be watching her in the scene, I'm like, wait, I gotta, I'm the other part of this.
Guest:I gotta just stop like fangirling over here.
Marc:Oh, that happens to me all the time.
Marc:It's fucking nuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because who am I?
Marc:Like in this movie, I did a scene with Sharon Stone.
Marc:I was like, what the fuck is happening?
Guest:Why?
Guest:Like, how am I here?
Marc:Yeah, and I really couldn't.
Marc:Like, we did two takes for a master, and I went back to my trailer, and I was like, get me out of this.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:I'm not an actor.
Marc:It's Sharon Stone in there, and she's all in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was just one of those weird moments where I'm like, dude, you better pull it together.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, look at the little, you know, points that, you know, you learned from Al Pacino.
Marc:You know, why are you there?
Marc:What are you doing?
Marc:Go to the character.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And fucking.
Guest:And that you're there for a reason.
Guest:You know, you have to remember that.
Guest:That's the hardest thing to remember sometimes that they want you there.
Marc:Yeah, I don't believe that.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I don't either.
Marc:It's like, who turned this down?
Marc:I know.
Marc:I don't even have that many Instagram followers.
Marc:What do you think you're going to get out of me on the promotional side?
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's so true.
Guest:It's so fucked up.
Guest:God, that hurts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you are undeniably a thing.
Marc:So you have your own thing.
Marc:I know I do, too.
Marc:But sometimes I think the thing that they think I am is limited.
Marc:I'm not just some cranky fuck.
Marc:You know, I'm sensitive.
Marc:I run deep, man.
Marc:Let's get to the deep part.
Guest:See, there's your next show.
Marc:Oh, I know.
Guest:Mark Maron, I'm deep.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm always doing some version of that.
Marc:I think this special is going to be called Panicked.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I just got myself some, not propofol, what's it called?
Marc:Yeah, propofol, the beta blocker.
Marc:Is that what it's called?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The beta blocker.
Guest:Yeah, I just got that.
Guest:And I'm afraid to take it because- It doesn't last long.
Guest:I'm afraid it'll take the thing off of me.
Marc:Why'd you get it?
Guest:Because when it's outside of somebody somewhere, like I did something last summer, and I already had food poisoning, so I was having a lot of issues.
Guest:And I just could not get out of my head.
Guest:But I was afraid to take it because I didn't want to not be... It was an emotional scene, so I had to be emo.
Guest:So I just went there, and I sucked really bad the first couple times.
Guest:And the director came in, and you could see that he was like...
Guest:We've made a mistake.
Guest:I mean, I know that look because I've had it on my face before.
Guest:What were we thinking?
Guest:But I got there.
Guest:But I'm just like, that's part of my process to really fuck it up a couple of times.
Guest:That's part of my life.
Guest:I've gotten better at it.
Marc:But now like what I do when I'm nervous or like I have to travel and I got to do this special next Saturday.
Marc:Is that like, you know, God damn it.
Marc:I hope I don't get a cold sore.
Marc:I hope I don't get sick.
Marc:Is my hair okay?
Marc:I mean, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:Why did I choose this shirt?
Marc:Like anything to undermine myself.
Marc:And it's like, I can't fucking figure out what, why is, why is that happening?
Guest:At this stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just like, you know, and I have to shut it off.
Marc:That's why I got on this medicine I got on.
Guest:Yeah, I just had this similar thing.
Guest:I did just a run of shows earlier this month, and I went to the sound check, and my top note just was not there.
Guest:And from there, I just fucking spiraled.
Marc:Broke it all down?
Guest:I've never had this happen before.
Guest:I was like, should I cancel the show?
Guest:I can't cancel because I know people.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They're making an effort to be here and everything.
Marc:Did you get all the way to, was I ever good at this?
Guest:No, I just like, I just, you know, but I was having such bad anxiety that it felt like that there was a foot on top of my soft palate and the roof of my mouth like pushing out.
Guest:So I had to go to this ear, nose and throat doctor and he gave me a Xanax because like I couldn't, I've never experienced this before.
Guest:I was like, what the fuck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it's like, and I'm like, why is this happening after all these years?
Guest:I have a song in my underwear in front of Gloria Stein.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck is my problem?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But it wasn't the thing, my whatever was just off.
Guest:So now I'm like, is this what it's going to be like from now on?
Guest:But like,
Guest:I just went to another doctor who because since then or after that, I had like this incredible like neck and jaw tension.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he ended up shooting lidocaine in my jaw and neck.
Guest:And I feel much better now.
Guest:And I think it was just an episode.
Guest:But like I cannot live that way.
Guest:Like I can't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Xanax worked.
Guest:It did help me, but I'm not a pill popper.
Marc:That's a relaxing one.
Marc:The beta blockers, it's hard to feel what they even do.
Marc:I was prescribed them once because I was in a very kind of high drama, codependent relationship.
Marc:And I didn't want to get angry.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So someone gave me beta blockers.
Marc:I don't know if it did, but knowing I was taking them sort of helped because she would do things to just make me mad to get the drama going.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, and I'm going to Al-Anon and shit.
Marc:And I'm like, I got to detach, dude.
Marc:You just got to fucking, you know, this is not your problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then like, you know, I needed the beta blockers to, you know, enforce my Al-Anon.
Yeah.
Guest:Whatever it takes.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Well, it took getting out of the relationship.
Guest:Well, that'll do it.
Guest:We all find our way eventually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, yeah, the stuff.
Marc:Well, that was another reason the show is so good is because there are very, you know, strangely real moments that are very, not based, but the vulnerability of just, you know, bodily functions.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that kind of stuff.
Marc:There's something about the scene where your sister's on the toilet and it burns when she pees.
Marc:I don't know who wrote that line, but that line of sort of like, well, sometimes it burns.
Marc:It burns a little bit.
Guest:Your line, it happens.
Guest:Yeah, I can't remember if that was written or improv.
Marc:But it's a strange thing as a sexually active person to have gone through that moment of sort of like, oh, I don't know.
Marc:Well, maybe it's all right.
Marc:I'll wait a couple of days.
Marc:In the end, it's fine.
Marc:But to me, it was such a profoundly real moment.
Marc:And then when you go look at it, it's just too funny.
Guest:Well, I think, like, you know, the point of that was obviously to show their growth, you know.
Guest:Yeah, sure, sure.
Guest:But that's also, like, sisters.
Guest:Like, I remember when I was little, my one sister was like, get over here.
Guest:I'm going to show you how to put a tampon in.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm eight.
Guest:You know, like.
Guest:So she's just on the toilet.
Guest:And I'm like, okay.
Guest:Now, you know, just like.
Guest:Got it.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:I will not forget this.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I guess that's the benefit and the downside of having so many older siblings.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:So your sister passed away, though.
Guest:How long has that been?
Guest:2008.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Wow, huh?
Guest:So my dad was 2006.
Guest:She was 2007.
Guest:And then my mom died, like, I think three years ago now.
Guest:On Monday, it'll be three years.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I guess it happens.
Marc:And was it similar to the story in the show that your sister got cancer?
Guest:No.
Guest:My sister did get cancer, but her story was different.
Guest:It was really, you know, she did get cancer.
Guest:And at that time I was waiting tables.
Guest:I had like no money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like, you know, there was like this thing like, you know, I should go.
Guest:Back?
Guest:See her.
Guest:She was in California at that point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't have the money.
Guest:I didn't get there in time.
Guest:And, like, you know, having my last conversation with her haunted me for years.
Guest:And, you know, like, they were just, like, wailing by me.
Guest:And just, you know, she was a sweet one.
Guest:Like, you know, my brothers and sisters, like, my oldest sister, Britton, was very sweet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, and really...
Guest:always looked out for me and believed in me yeah you know she was in season one there's a thing like where i bring like my tape to her graveside you know because and and part of that was was born out of like she always wanted to hear what i was doing and i was singing these songs like fucking canhole and at least it's pink and i was like she's gonna think these are stupid she wouldn't have but i was too embarrassed to share it with her and i never did and then
Guest:She was very supportive and so was my mom, but early on.
Guest:There was a lot of my shame about how I handled the end of her life that's in the show.
Guest:There's a lot of grief.
Guest:There's a lot of me.
Guest:And a lot of... It's...
Guest:You know, I loved her and I did not do right by her at the end of her life.
Guest:And so to me, this is kind of a way of...
Guest:honoring her that sounds like such a shitty thing to do like after somebody's gone but i i think about her all the time i talk to her all the time even though it's been this many years and um you know it's my mom and i were very close and when she died it was really hard um my dad you know when we weren't close and that's hard for its own sure but you know there's something about her who was like kind of sweet and like
Guest:And too young, probably.
Guest:50 when she died.
Guest:And to me, she had this really vulnerable, helpless... She was so funny, but she was kind of like an easy target kind of thing.
Guest:A lot of bad things happened to her, and I just...
Guest:So when I sing about her now, I still cry because it's just so much.
Marc:Were you able to, like in doing the show, were you able to process it differently?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I had a lot of loss during the show and a lot of loss leading up to the show because we had...
Guest:Like sort of each season, first season, my dog died in the middle of the middle of shooting.
Guest:And Poppy was like, she was the love of my life, like literally the love of my life.
Guest:And then season two, right before we shot it, Mike Haggerty, who played my dad, he died.
Guest:That was very difficult because we had a very special connection.
Guest:And then my mom died.
Guest:Before season three.
Guest:And so it's like when you're doing a show that's sort of about dealing with grief, but you're going through it yourself, it was really overwhelming.
Guest:And I felt like everything that I was also putting of myself in the show, like about the way I feel about myself and self-worth and love and how I have a hard time connecting to other people and all those things.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was just so much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was all going on?
Guest:It was all happening.
Guest:But once we finished, I somehow have a sense of peace about that.
Guest:I acknowledge some of my grief, finally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm able to kind of like...
Guest:not just beat up on myself or about not maybe having the right kind of relationship with my dad or failing my sister.
Guest:Like, I just feel like I – I don't know.
Guest:There's something about, like, finally facing it.
Guest:And, you know, like you said, you know, I don't know.
Guest:When you're not somebody that doesn't – if you don't go to therapy, like, get yourself a show because that will help you.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's –
Marc:Well, I mean, there's definitely that thought that, you know, you did get through it.
Marc:And it did bring it back to the surface in a way that was contained in some way.
Marc:You had to show up to do the work.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But those emotions were able to work within what you were doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so on some level to be able to sit with grief in a way that's supported is a big deal.
Marc:It's a huge deal.
Marc:And be seen.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel really lucky to have worked with the people that I did who really...
Guest:Cared.
Guest:You know, cared about me, cared for me, cared about the show.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's like, you know, because I talked about that in my last special that because it's uncontrollable when you get into the zone of it.
Marc:But there were two things that kind of were in my mind, which was like, this isn't unusual.
Marc:It happens to everybody.
Marc:This is part of life.
Marc:But there is a sense that, you know, you can't...
Marc:You want to keep it to yourself somehow.
Marc:But it's uncontrollable.
Marc:So you have that moment where you realize, well, people are built to deal with this.
Marc:This is part of the human experience.
Marc:And once you cross that threshold to have those feelings in a public way, it's a big relief.
Guest:It is a relief.
Guest:But I feel like after...
Guest:Anytime somebody... When my mom died, my friend's like, I'm coming over.
Guest:I was like, don't come over.
Guest:I couldn't even bear to see somebody.
Guest:I couldn't bear it.
Guest:When my dog Poppy died, Carolyn's like, do you want people to say something to you or do you want everybody to...
Guest:Because I put her down on Sunday and I was back at work Monday 6 a.m.
Guest:And so the word went out and nobody said anything to me.
Guest:But I can't face people when I've heard that much.
Guest:And the show has kind of helped me.
Guest:Like the stuff I did with Jeff, it's like some of the scenes when you've...
Guest:Like it's always going to be better when you let somebody catch you.
Guest:But for me, that is so hard.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's so hard to let somebody catch me because it's – and there's – why do you feel any shame around grief?
Guest:Like why do I feel that way sometimes or why – Because it's a vulnerability you can't control.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like usually, you know, even when you're singing, you know, the emotional depth you have control over.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like grief, it's just like it's just there.
Marc:You're not you can't you can't stop it.
Marc:You can't stop it.
Marc:And so that feeling of not having control of these emotions, it's hard.
Marc:But like I said, like once it's out.
Marc:And you see it's okay.
Marc:It's like a fucking gift.
Guest:It is a gift.
Guest:And there's something that's so wonderful about connecting with people who have your same specific kind of grief.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or maybe, you know, like...
Guest:I felt that I just was so grateful to have people to talk to that were like, I've lost my sister too.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:You know, my friend said to me, this is something after my mom died that I thought was so... And it was something I'd never said out loud because I felt embarrassed about it.
Guest:But he was like, nobody's ever going to look at me the way my mother looked at me because I was her favorite.
Guest:She loved me.
Guest:And I was like, that's it.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I can't even...
Guest:Like nobody's going to look at me like my mom looked at me because I was so special to her.
Guest:And like, and you think about going through life, I'm going to, for the rest of my life, there's nobody that feel, you know, that, that has, and like that is, you grieve your mother and you grieve the loss of that.
Guest:And that feels like kind of like I had a lot of shame about that.
Marc:But, but, but what's interesting though, I don't know if you found this though, is that you can get there.
Marc:You can still be seen by your mother.
Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, it's emotional.
Marc:Like, when I did that scene with Sharon Stone...
Marc:You know, Lynn, who was my girlfriend and she was a director and she was always very supportive of my acting, really was like, you got to do, you got to do.
Marc:And to get to a place of emotion that I needed for the scene, like I knew I wanted to sort of tap into that, but I didn't know how.
Marc:You can't just like lock into like someone passing.
Marc:But I locked into, you know, how much she believed in me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's always there for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like whatever that dynamic with your mother, you know, the way she looked at you, you can get there pretty easily.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's what it is.
Marc:That's what living with it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And integrating it into your being and the gift that it was.
Marc:But it still is.
Marc:And there's no other way to put it into perspective.
Guest:I think you're so right.
Guest:But to me...
Guest:It's almost like too painful.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But that pain, like even when I just felt it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's pain, but it's also like.
Marc:Like they're there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But also like it's honoring them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like it reconnects you with them.
Marc:Like it's not the pain of loss.
Marc:It's the pain of missing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's different.
Marc:Like they're already gone.
Marc:But it's okay to miss people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think it's like a trauma of like re-triggering the moment they go away or they die.
Marc:But it's sort of like reconnecting with the feelings that were good.
Marc:But it's a missing thing.
Marc:And I think that's okay.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Fucking Barbara Mark Maren Walters.
Guest:But I'm happy to hear that because I do feel like there's so many things and I do believe this, like taking the...
Guest:The things that people, you know, have given you that have made you, you know, that made you special.
Guest:Like, I do sort of talk about, you know, I've just started talking about it on my show a little bit.
Guest:Like, you know, that my dad was the funny one and my sister was the heart and my mom was the music.
Guest:And I know that they are probably the three most...
Guest:They built me.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know that I am like them.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Those are the good things.
Guest:Those are the good things.
Guest:But thinking about some of that...
Guest:I mean, it's so overwhelming that feeling you're talking about.
Guest:It's so overwhelming.
Marc:When there's so much, too.
Marc:Like, you know, my parents are still hanging on.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I have had to put a couple of cats down that I loved a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and Lynn's gone.
Marc:You know, and I – it's just fucking life, though.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's like you don't have to live in those spaces.
Marc:And usually, you know, when they come up – and I'm closing my show with this now about this.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:About when it comes, it's triggered by something.
Marc:Is that the thing that I focus in on is that you let it happen as much as you can.
Marc:And it's almost like a check-in, man.
Marc:It doesn't, you know what I mean?
Marc:It doesn't have to be like, why?
Marc:Because you're through that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it's just sort of like a check-in.
Marc:And I think if you frame it around reconnecting with your feelings for that person, then it becomes something different.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But the problem is even that little bit that came up for me, then when it comes up, it's still pulling at you.
Marc:It's like, well, let's go in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I have things to do.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:We're okay.
Guest:Who needs to do therapy when you need to do a podcast?
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You feel all right?
Marc:Oh, fucking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can you go back to the hotel?
Marc:And cry?
Guest:I might.
Guest:I like that.
Guest:I like laying in a cold hotel room, just lightly.
Guest:Not even rocking back and forth, just sort of rolling back and forth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With a couple.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I feel like...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm always worried to talk to somebody when it's going to be for more than 15 minutes because it could go.
Guest:No, this is great.
Guest:We talked for a while.
Guest:I feel like we did pretty good.
Guest:We did great.
Guest:I only had to spritz three times.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, it was a great deal of emotional fun talking to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:Got it.
Marc:Got to a pretty place.
Marc:Got pretty, pretty heavy.
Marc:Somebody somewhere streaming on Max.
Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.
Marc:OK, as I mentioned, I just did my HBO special taping at the BAM Harvey Theater in Brooklyn.
Marc:And 10 years ago this month, I was at the BAM Opera House to record a live episode with fresh airs Terry Gross.
Marc:So you knew how to have fun.
Guest:That's a good question.
Guest:Do I know how to have fun?
Marc:Did you then and do you now?
Guest:Sure, let's expand it.
Guest:Yeah, it's not probably what I'm most famous for.
Guest:You know, I'm probably, you know, in some ways better at working than I am at, like, relaxing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But do you know how to have fun and...
Guest:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:What do you do for... For fun?
Guest:I go to the movies, go to concerts, listen to you.
Marc:Oh, you do listen to me?
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:I listen to you a lot.
Guest:I think you're wonderful.
Guest:I listen to your podcast.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I watch your show.
Guest:I have your comedy album.
Guest:No, I think you're wonderful.
Guest:I'm so glad for this opportunity to talk with you.
Marc:I'm flattered and humbled.
Guest:And can I get a chance to ask you a question?
Marc:In a minute.
Marc:In a minute.
Marc:I know how that goes.
Thank you.
Marc:I'm trying to hold the line, Terry.
Marc:These are professional boundaries.
Marc:I'm the questioner.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But, like, I'm sort of... So how are you with Joy?
Marc:Do you...
Marc:I'm asking this because this is all I know.
Marc:Look, I became an interviewer for reasons that had nothing to do with interviewing.
Marc:I ended up there.
Marc:And I know what my emotional, why I do it and how I ended up here.
Marc:So like right now, personally, I'm wrestling with, and I don't know if you feel this way, you call it, you say you work all the time.
Marc:But you talk to people professionally.
Marc:And, you know, you elicit things from them and you draw people out.
Marc:And the reason you said before is to make lives better by kind of letting people tell who they are.
Marc:But do you get something out of that emotionally?
Marc:Because I find in my life that I'm capable of almost deeper intimacy.
Guest:That was the question I was going to ask you.
Marc:Well, I'm asking you first.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Marc:That's one of our greatest episodes, and you can listen to it for free on whatever podcast platform you're using.
Marc:It's episode 604 with Terry Gross.
Marc:To get every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+.
Marc:Just go to the link in the episode description and go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+.
Marc:And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.
Marc:This guitar, I tried to lay down a track.
Marc:It got a little confusing somewhere about a third of the way through, but I like it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Okay.
Okay.
.
.
.
Thank you.
guitar solo
guitar solo
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.
Marc:Cat angels everywhere.