Episode 1609 - Mo Welch

Episode 1609 • Released January 16, 2025 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:11Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck, buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck, Knicks?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:How's it going where you are?

00:00:17Marc:What's happening out there?

00:00:19Marc:Are you okay?

00:00:21Marc:Is everything okay by you as we head into this final week or so of...

00:00:29Marc:What is America?

00:00:30Marc:And into whatever America will become.

00:00:35Marc:That's a layer of stress.

00:00:38Marc:At least for me and probably half of the people in the country.

00:00:43Marc:But I hope you're okay.

00:00:46Marc:And maybe even being happy.

00:00:49Marc:I don't know.

00:00:50Marc:I don't know from all that.

00:00:53Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Mo Welch.

00:00:58Marc:She's a comic and cartoonist.

00:00:59Marc:Last year, she released the special Dad Jokes, which is part stand-up set, part documentary about meeting her estranged father for the first time in 20 years.

00:01:08Marc:The special is now on Hulu.

00:01:10Marc:She also co-hosts the podcast Sweethearts, along with Beth Stelling and...

00:01:15Marc:We talk a bit about the experience that we're living through, but I do know that out here it's very trying and still quite awful and harrowing in not only the possibility of more fires, but just the horrendous loss of so many people here.

00:01:34Marc:It's almost unfathomable.

00:01:38Marc:I've talked to a lot of people.

00:01:42Marc:A lot of people that know people that lost everything.

00:01:45Marc:A few people that have lost everything.

00:01:47Marc:Try to help where I can.

00:01:49Marc:We'll continue to do that.

00:01:52Marc:And I'm grateful.

00:01:54Marc:I'm lucky.

00:01:56Marc:I'm okay.

00:01:57Marc:I'm safe.

00:01:58Marc:My house is fine.

00:02:00Marc:It's still scary.

00:02:01Marc:But I'm okay.

00:02:04Marc:And my heart goes out to everybody that has experienced tremendous loss here.

00:02:10Marc:Because this affects everyone.

00:02:12Marc:Obviously, the people that lost everything, it's profoundly affected and destroyed their lives.

00:02:19Marc:But for everybody else here, it's a very interesting thing about what do you want to call it?

00:02:28Marc:catastrophe, overwhelming environmental disaster, just anything where there's massive loss and a massive collective feeling of powerlessness in the face of what caused that loss.

00:02:45Marc:It's just fucking crazy.

00:02:47Marc:And look, I was in New York on 9-11.

00:02:51Marc:I remember that day very clearly.

00:02:54Marc:How could you ever forget it?

00:02:57Marc:I woke up that morning, I turned on my AOL homepage, showed one tower standing, and I didn't know what to make of it.

00:03:04Marc:I thought, is this a joke?

00:03:06Marc:Is this a gag?

00:03:09Marc:And I went up to my roof and I saw the smoke at the end of Manhattan.

00:03:12Marc:It was a crisp, clear day.

00:03:14Marc:Nothing was going on anywhere.

00:03:17Marc:Everything had been grounded.

00:03:18Marc:No cars in the street, no planes in the air.

00:03:21Marc:And I went back down to my house and I turned on the TV and saw the second tower fall.

00:03:26Marc:And then I went back on the roof and I was like, oh, my fucking God.

00:03:30Marc:And.

00:03:31Marc:In that moment where your brain is trying to understand or comprehend or wrap your perception around what is happening, that is when the massive trauma kind of sets in that moment of realization of like, fuck, nothing will ever be the same again.

00:03:53Marc:All those lives lost.

00:03:55Marc:Manhattan just incapacitated.

00:03:57Marc:It was fucking horrendous.

00:04:01Marc:And I stayed, and my girlfriend at the time, who had been getting off the train downtown, a few blocks from the towers, got out of the subway and was in a storm of ash.

00:04:15Marc:Walked 40 blocks uptown.

00:04:18Marc:Packed her bags and left New York.

00:04:20Marc:Only came back to leave again.

00:04:21Marc:That's what got us out here.

00:04:23Marc:That's what got me to L.A.

00:04:24Marc:in the first place.

00:04:26Marc:I stayed for quite a bit longer for months, maybe even close to a year.

00:04:30Marc:And she just left because she couldn't.

00:04:35Marc:She was totally incapacitated by the trauma of it.

00:04:41Marc:But I stayed and we performed a few weeks after and New York was just, everywhere was plastered with the faces of missing people.

00:04:51Marc:People were walking in a state that was almost like an emotional zombie state.

00:04:59Marc:All you know is to sort of try to get back to your routines, but nobody was normal for years.

00:05:05Marc:And you could smell it for months and months.

00:05:09Marc:And, you know, emotions were high.

00:05:12Marc:And I felt some of that same energy here over the last few days.

00:05:18Marc:Kind of PTSD that happens almost immediately.

00:05:21Marc:The trauma happens and then you're walking in this zone of disbelief and sort of kind of temporary emotional annihilation amidst all this destruction out here.

00:05:34Marc:And people who are unaffected by it directly, you know, they try to, you go on with your life, but it was menacing.

00:05:42Marc:See, I talked about what was going on on Monday and my feelings of concern and sadness and fear and just the kind of emotional reaction is such tremendous loss on behalf of so many people.

00:06:02Marc:And my thought,

00:06:04Marc:That is a natural thought was like, you know, it's it's time to get out.

00:06:11Marc:And it's interesting why you know what you're going to do in your mind if you're lucky enough to at this point anyways remain, you know, untouched physically or property wise is to, you know, fight or flight.

00:06:27Marc:And all the logic in terms of, sure, I love Los Angeles as much as the next guy.

00:06:35Marc:I didn't grow up here, but I've certainly spent a lot of time here.

00:06:39Marc:And I love my house.

00:06:41Marc:And there's a lot of great things about Southern California.

00:06:44Marc:But I got some, a couple of odd, not odd responses, but just from people who were like, you know, how could you just say you're going to leave?

00:06:53Marc:I mean, we got to rebuild better than ever.

00:06:55Marc:We got to fight for our city.

00:06:57Marc:You got to stay and fight the fight.

00:06:58Marc:Against what?

00:07:01Marc:Against what?

00:07:04Marc:What are you going to fight the wind?

00:07:07Marc:You're going to fight the erratic wind.

00:07:09Marc:You're going to, you know, kind of like set a timeline for every year that these things might happen.

00:07:14Marc:How are you going to fight the wind?

00:07:16Marc:How are you going to fight the drought?

00:07:19Marc:If nobody's going to get, you know, collectively hip to the fact that we might be past the point of no return with climate change.

00:07:26Marc:And so then it's just a matter of adapting.

00:07:28Marc:So, you know, this isn't going to get better.

00:07:31Marc:And so how many times a year do you see, you know, the weather app on your phone?

00:07:37Marc:It says, you know, gusts of wind.

00:07:41Marc:Are you going to be like, fuck, I got to get back on the fire app.

00:07:45Marc:I'm still on the fire app.

00:07:46Marc:There's no way to get off it now.

00:07:49Marc:You know, the last few days have been just horrible and they were forecasting, uh,

00:07:54Marc:60 to 75 mile an hour winds.

00:07:56Marc:So then you just sit there and see if it gets close again and get ready.

00:08:00Marc:Get the cat boxes open.

00:08:01Marc:Get your go bags together.

00:08:03Marc:Make sure your kids know what's up.

00:08:05Marc:Just this tentative vibe of it's coming.

00:08:10Marc:It's coming.

00:08:12Marc:And these firefighters out here are fucking astounding.

00:08:16Marc:Amazing.

00:08:16Marc:Fucking real goddamn heroes, these guys and gals.

00:08:21Marc:Men and women.

00:08:23Marc:All of them from all around the world coming together to try to manage this thing.

00:08:29Marc:And neither one of these fires are even half contained.

00:08:33Marc:Fight or flight, man.

00:08:35Marc:You know, what's the fight?

00:08:37Marc:How do you win?

00:08:38Marc:Or how do you survive?

00:08:41Marc:I'm in Fort Collins, Colorado tomorrow at Lincoln Center Performance Hall and then Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater.

00:08:50Marc:On the next day, Saturday the 18th, I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobero Theater on Thursday, January 30th.

00:08:57Marc:Then San Luis Obispo, California at Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st.

00:09:02Marc:Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st.

00:09:06Marc:Iowa City at the Ingwer Theater on Thursday, February 13th.

00:09:09Marc:Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th.

00:09:14Marc:and Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15th.

00:09:18Marc:Then I'm in North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan.

00:09:25Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets.

00:09:30Marc:There will be more shows coming up.

00:09:32Marc:I'm planning on shooting a HBO special in New York City.

00:09:36Marc:That'll be coming up.

00:09:37Marc:I think I'm going to be getting some dates on the calendar in Vermont, Toronto, Toronto.

00:09:43Marc:New Hampshire, heading into that special, getting this stuff together.

00:09:49Marc:Look, it's hard to be rational in something so catastrophic and seemingly so irrational.

00:09:56Marc:But yeah, I can't imagine the kind of menace that

00:10:03Marc:of fear when you have children.

00:10:05Marc:I mean, I've got cats.

00:10:07Marc:I mean, and I think on some level, children are probably easier than cats.

00:10:11Marc:I mean, they'll do what you want them to do.

00:10:14Marc:They may cry, they may freak out, but they'll do what you want them to do.

00:10:16Marc:Cats are like, they don't give a fuck.

00:10:19Marc:They don't know what you're worked up about.

00:10:20Marc:And these poor cats in the last few days, because I was on the edge and we thought these winds were coming and I was just, you know, waiting for a fire to, you know, hit close enough to where I got to go.

00:10:31Marc:I got to go again.

00:10:33Marc:I can't wait for the zone to change.

00:10:37Marc:And then I just start to think, you sit there and you think like, well, look, okay, why don't you just go out to the desert for a few days until something levels off so you can feel better, at least feel safe.

00:10:52Marc:And then I start to think like, well, then I got to, it's going to distress the cats.

00:10:57Marc:They got to box them up, put them in the car, sit in a hotel.

00:11:00Marc:They're going to be freaked out.

00:11:02Marc:No, just stay here and wait it out.

00:11:04Marc:And that's not sit here and wait and fight.

00:11:07Marc:You know, I'm not going to don a firefighter's outfit and get out there.

00:11:12Marc:But there's some part of me that's willing to put my safety at risk so my cats won't be uncomfortable.

00:11:18Marc:Yeah, that's a little crazy.

00:11:21Marc:Yeah, I got to get that in perspective.

00:11:23Marc:So sensitive to the animals.

00:11:25Marc:But they're okay.

00:11:26Marc:And for some reason, when I got up today, Sammy was sleeping in one of the crates, the one that I could barely get him into.

00:11:33Marc:Actually, he was easy.

00:11:34Marc:I threw him in the hamper.

00:11:36Marc:But today he's like, I don't know, maybe he wants to go.

00:11:38Marc:Maybe I should see that as a sign.

00:11:41Marc:I need help.

00:11:44Marc:All right, look.

00:11:46Marc:I'd heard of Mo Welch, and we have common friends.

00:11:51Marc:I've interviewed her friends.

00:11:53Marc:I watched her special.

00:11:54Marc:I thought it was kind of awesome to kind of track.

00:11:57Marc:You know, she's always had this propensity to do dad jokes, but she didn't really have a relationship with her dad for like 30 years.

00:12:05Marc:She decided to go find him.

00:12:10Marc:And the special is half that, half stand-up.

00:12:12Marc:It's called Dad Jokes.

00:12:14Marc:It's streaming on Hulu, and this is me talking to Mo Welch.

00:12:23¶¶

00:12:24Marc:Did you split?

00:12:25Marc:Yeah, we went to the desert.

00:12:26Marc:And for what?

00:12:27Marc:How long?

00:12:28Guest:We went for three nights.

00:12:30Guest:Well, it's terrible.

00:12:31Guest:I mean, it's terrible for everybody in the city right now.

00:12:33Guest:But my in-laws lost their house in the Palisades.

00:12:36Guest:So at that time, like when we were going to do the podcast, it's like, oh, my God, we just lost our house.

00:12:41Guest:And then we're like, we're getting to the desert because it's like it was just smoke that next morning.

00:12:45Guest:So we're like, we can't have a kid.

00:12:47Guest:I mean, it's not like a campfire.

00:12:48Guest:It's like, got a five-year-old.

00:12:50Marc:Yeah.

00:12:51Marc:I mean, yeah.

00:12:51Marc:I mean, I split because I got three cats.

00:12:53Marc:So I got no kids.

00:12:54Marc:And cats are harder to get out of a house than a fucking kid, you know?

00:12:59Marc:And, you know, I went.

00:13:01Marc:But now, like, but the funny thing is, if there's a silver lining at all, it's that I only had one crate.

00:13:09Marc:And I had to, you know, improvise with a camper and a box.

00:13:13Marc:Right.

00:13:13Marc:And I go into Hollywood and I'm at the Hampton Inn.

00:13:16Marc:And then that catches fire.

00:13:18Marc:And I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me.

00:13:20Marc:But now I have three crates.

00:13:22Guest:And where would you?

00:13:22Guest:So would you go further this time if you're going to head out?

00:13:26Marc:Well, yeah, just because like, you know, now we got to sit here for three days with winds just looking at that fucking app.

00:13:33Marc:Right.

00:13:33Marc:To see if anything's close enough to be a concern or if we actually get evacuated.

00:13:38Marc:And I'm like, I have no control over whether the house burns.

00:13:42Marc:I don't need to be here for that.

00:13:43Marc:And I don't need to be here anticipating it if I could just drive the cats to Vegas or something.

00:13:49Guest:Right.

00:13:50Guest:I mean, that's the thing.

00:13:50Guest:It's like you're like, OK, you go to the desert, you go to Vegas.

00:13:54Right.

00:13:54Marc:Yeah.

00:13:54Marc:Vegas three cats.

00:13:56Marc:Yeah.

00:13:56Marc:I know.

00:13:57Marc:Well, that's the thing, but like, they'll be all right.

00:13:59Guest:Yeah.

00:13:59Marc:And if it's going to salvage my mental state or keep us safe, you know, fuck it.

00:14:03Marc:But I don't know.

00:14:03Marc:I'm crazy anyways.

00:14:05Marc:Like I'm, I'm ready to evacuate anytime.

00:14:07Guest:Right.

00:14:08Guest:I mean, it does obviously, I mean, I've been here for like 12 years and you know, we've never seen anything like this.

00:14:13Guest:Of course not.

00:14:14Guest:Yeah.

00:14:14Marc:And it's just, it's just like, cause it's always, like I said before, it's like, yeah, I'm not sure where they are, but they're, they seem to be up in the mountains.

00:14:21Marc:They're over there.

00:14:21Marc:Like it was always kind of like,

00:14:23Guest:Out by Malibu, something like that.

00:14:25Marc:Yeah, well, that one was bad.

00:14:26Marc:But usually it was, yeah, it just, it's fucking crazy.

00:14:30Marc:And I'm in some sort of, I'm on the trauma spectrum right now.

00:14:34Guest:Right.

00:14:35Marc:Are you?

00:14:35Guest:Oh, my God, for sure.

00:14:37Guest:I mean, I think I just, I really am just like living, living through it right now.

00:14:41Guest:And then it's gonna, like, I'm all of a sudden gonna, I'll cry in like a few months.

00:14:44Marc:So your in-laws lost their house.

00:14:46Guest:Yeah.

00:14:47Marc:How are they doing?

00:14:49Guest:Terrible.

00:14:50Guest:I mean, it was their dream house.

00:14:51Guest:Obviously they're not, you know, my, they're from like Texas and Rhode Island.

00:14:56Marc:Yeah.

00:14:57Marc:That's interesting pairing.

00:14:58Guest:Yeah.

00:14:59Marc:Rhode Island.

00:15:00Marc:Yeah.

00:15:01Marc:My car got stolen once in Rhode Island.

00:15:03Guest:Yeah, I just performed there.

00:15:05Guest:And you know when you stay in cities and you're on the road and you're staying in the downtown and everyone's like, don't stay downtown.

00:15:11Guest:You don't want to stay downtown.

00:15:12Guest:You're like, this is where we're performing.

00:15:14Marc:Yeah, I can walk to the venue.

00:15:16Guest:So half of the cities in America, I'm like, these are scary.

00:15:20Guest:Yeah.

00:15:20Marc:Or just kind of like they've attempted to make it something and then it just doesn't really take.

00:15:28Marc:And now after COVID, it's just like all these new businesses that they thought would save downtown are gone.

00:15:36Marc:I was just in Sacramento Friday and downtown there is a little weird.

00:15:41Marc:And then I went to Napa and that's all weird.

00:15:43Guest:Sacramento, I feel like every time I go there, it's just staying in a hotel.

00:15:47Guest:There's like a hotel and you go from the hotel to the punchline or whatever.

00:15:51Marc:Well, that place across from the punchline, across from the mall, that condo hotel, it's the worst.

00:15:56Guest:Oh, I don't say, I think I just stayed at like a Hampton Inn sort of situation.

00:15:59Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:16:00Marc:Yeah.

00:16:01Marc:I mean, I, you know, I started, you know, I lived up there for a couple of years and I do that punchline a lot.

00:16:06Marc:It just scarred me.

00:16:09Marc:I can't.

00:16:10Marc:Like, Sacramento is just, there's so many places, you know, from my comedy history where they're just, you know, they're triggering.

00:16:18Marc:They're just trauma sites.

00:16:20Marc:Like, how the fuck did I ever work here when I was a kid?

00:16:23Marc:When I was, like, in my 20s?

00:16:24Marc:I'm like, how did I do that?

00:16:26Guest:I don't, like, you do, like, I hit a point where I'm just like, I don't care if I break even.

00:16:29Guest:I'm not staying in a disgusting place.

00:16:31Marc:I can't do it.

00:16:32Marc:Yeah, my back will hurt.

00:16:34Marc:You never know when your back's going to hurt.

00:16:35Marc:Your back can hurt at a good place.

00:16:37Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:38Marc:It's just, you know, those beds, who the fuck knows?

00:16:40Guest:I feel like I'm like Eloise of like Hampton Inns at this point.

00:16:46Marc:I used to love the Hampton Inns, you know, because it was like, you know, back when it was sort of more important.

00:16:51Marc:I'm like, yeah, I get breakfast.

00:16:53Marc:They've got enough plugs in the room.

00:16:55Marc:I can plug all my shit in.

00:16:57Marc:Because sometimes you go to high end hotels and you're like, they're not prepared for how much shit we have to plug in.

00:17:02Marc:Where the fuck's the plug?

00:17:03Guest:I know.

00:17:04Guest:So like, yeah, there is a time when they're 20s doing stand up where you're just so low maintenance.

00:17:09Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:17:09Marc:I just need a plug and breakfast.

00:17:10Guest:Yeah.

00:17:13Marc:And, you know, and then like you don't even rent a car and you're just sort of like every time you get put up by a club, you're like, there's nothing around here.

00:17:22Marc:You can't walk to anything.

00:17:23Marc:Before Uber, it was a nightmare.

00:17:25Marc:Just sad, you know, kind of middle acts wandering the streets looking for a coffee shop.

00:17:30Guest:Yeah, it's so true.

00:17:32Guest:We're not only looking for it, we're just like there for eight hours in the day.

00:17:36Marc:Oh yeah, why not?

00:17:37Marc:Where's the cool place?

00:17:38Marc:All right, I'll sit there and eat two meals over there.

00:17:41Guest:I always feel that when I go to Denver, because I'm like, okay, I'm going to rent a car, I'm going to go to a little, I'm going to go to a steamboat, or I'm going to go look at... No, I'm just in that comedy condo with the inflatable clown.

00:17:53Marc:I never stayed at that place.

00:17:54Marc:I love that condo, actually.

00:17:56Marc:Well, that's what people always say.

00:17:57Marc:They're like, well, that's one of the good ones.

00:17:58Marc:That club is pretty good, though.

00:18:00Marc:I'm going back.

00:18:01Marc:I love it.

00:18:02Marc:I had never done the suburban one.

00:18:06Guest:Oh, yeah, south.

00:18:07Marc:Yeah, I always went downtown because I was always scared of, like, you know, you didn't go the one out in the suburbs.

00:18:11Marc:I was like, that doesn't sound good, but it's fucking great.

00:18:13Guest:It is.

00:18:14Marc:It's crazy that she has somehow managed to make two rooms that are awesome for comics.

00:18:19Guest:It's incredible.

00:18:20Guest:I started in Denver.

00:18:21Guest:You did?

00:18:22Guest:So, yeah, I used to do the phone line.

00:18:26Guest:Really?

00:18:27Guest:From my memory, it took 12 weeks that first time where you had to call every single week.

00:18:32Guest:If you missed a week, they would drop you off the list.

00:18:34Guest:Oh, for the open mic night?

00:18:36Marc:For the open mic.

00:18:37Marc:Yeah.

00:18:37Guest:And then you get that two minutes on stage.

00:18:39Marc:Yeah, that's really helpful.

00:18:40Marc:Yeah.

00:18:41Marc:But it is kind of helpful, you know?

00:18:43Guest:Yeah, that was, because they wanted to make sure that you knew, that you were dedicated, I guess.

00:18:48Guest:Yeah, but where'd you come from, though?

00:18:49Guest:I mean, I'm from Illinois.

00:18:51Marc:Yeah, I watched the special.

00:18:54Marc:Oh, thank you.

00:18:54Marc:And I have some questions, though.

00:18:55Guest:Yes, of course.

00:18:57Marc:But only because, you know, we can go through the whole story, but it was...

00:19:01Marc:But it was interesting at the end, you're moving towards this meeting with your estranged father, who is a scary fella.

00:19:08Marc:But somehow you made the choice not to include almost any of that conversation into the special proper.

00:19:19Marc:We're all moving towards this thing, and sure enough, the guy's alive, and you sit down with him, and he answers one question, and then that's it.

00:19:26Marc:Yeah, rug pull.

00:19:28Marc:Yeah.

00:19:29Marc:a few bits and pieces during the credits.

00:19:31Marc:And then, you know, the, the, the, the words come up that he, you know, wrecked his bike and is he alive?

00:19:36Guest:He is alive.

00:19:37Guest:Yeah.

00:19:38Guest:Yeah.

00:19:38Guest:There's a lot of people don't know.

00:19:40Guest:There's an epilogue on that too.

00:19:41Guest:That's like 12 minutes.

00:19:42Guest:I think I, I put too many, too much time.

00:19:44Marc:Oh, so after the, after he's in a coma, he came back and yeah, but I, was it clear that, you know, that he was, yeah, I guess it was clear.

00:19:54Marc:I read

00:19:54Guest:Yeah.

00:19:55Guest:He, yeah, he wrecked his bike.

00:19:57Guest:And I, I mean, I thought it was my sister called me and she was like, he's going to be dead.

00:20:00Guest:And then, so I went to go visit, I went to the hospital in Tennessee to go see him.

00:20:06Guest:And he was, um, not dead.

00:20:08Guest:No, but he was like in, yeah, it was like, it was bad.

00:20:12Marc:Okay, so you're in Illinois.

00:20:16Marc:Where'd you grow up?

00:20:17Marc:Well, I'm from Normal.

00:20:19Marc:So I was born in Normal.

00:20:21Marc:Have you been out there at all?

00:20:22Marc:I don't know.

00:20:23Guest:I mean, it's like a Peoria.

00:20:26Marc:I don't know.

00:20:27Marc:I went to Sacramento the other night.

00:20:29Marc:I'm like, I'm pretty sure I've been here to this airport.

00:20:32Marc:And then I got to the venue, and I'm like, was I here?

00:20:34Marc:And she's like, yeah, you were here a couple years ago.

00:20:35Marc:I'm like, oh, shit.

00:20:36Marc:Yeah.

00:20:37Guest:You stayed in this room.

00:20:38Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:20:40Marc:So normal Illinois, but the situation was like from the beginning of your life, you know, chaotic and dangerous.

00:20:49Guest:Yeah.

00:20:50Guest:I mean, it was like, it was so chaotic looking back, but yeah, it was, it was like central Illinois.

00:20:55Guest:So we would just move.

00:20:56Guest:So we lived in this small town called Armington, which is in the film.

00:21:00Guest:And it's, um, it's like 350, 400 people.

00:21:02Guest:Yeah.

00:21:03Marc:Yeah.

00:21:04Guest:No businesses.

00:21:05Marc:So you're in this town where there's nothing.

00:21:07Marc:Like now I'm trying to think, I just talked to somebody else that grew up in a town where, who the hell was that?

00:21:15Marc:Where there was literally nothing to do.

00:21:17Marc:Oh, it was Richard Gad the other day.

00:21:19Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:21:20Marc:That was in Scotland.

00:21:21Guest:Right.

00:21:22Marc:You had to drive like a half an hour just to go to the movies.

00:21:25Guest:Nothing.

00:21:26Guest:Like seriously, there's no, there are no stores.

00:21:28Guest:So when I was growing up, there was a gas station.

00:21:30Marc:Okay.

00:21:31Guest:And that was the, you know, they had some food there.

00:21:34Guest:Snacks.

00:21:35Guest:Mountain Dew, Code Red, that sort of thing.

00:21:37Marc:The important stuff for Midwest living.

00:21:40Marc:M&Ms, yeah.

00:21:40Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:41Guest:And that's it.

00:21:42Guest:And now that's closed down.

00:21:43Marc:It's gone.

00:21:44Marc:And where's your mom?

00:21:45Guest:She's in Illinois as well, but she used to work at that.

00:21:49Guest:She used to be the person at John Turner's.

00:21:52Guest:And she used to always get in trouble because she'd bring three of us.

00:21:55Guest:And sit there?

00:21:56Guest:And should we be sitting there?

00:21:58Guest:Behind the counter at the gas station?

00:21:59Guest:We'd just be playing around.

00:22:01Guest:And it's like, you know, at some point, someone has to draw a line and say, this isn't a daycare as well.

00:22:07Marc:Right.

00:22:08Marc:Well, what happened?

00:22:08Marc:Like, when does things help?

00:22:11Marc:And you're the middle sister?

00:22:13Guest:I'm the second out of five.

00:22:15Guest:Five?

00:22:15Guest:Yeah, there's five of us.

00:22:16Marc:Five with the one dad?

00:22:18Guest:Yeah.

00:22:19Guest:Five with one dad and one mom.

00:22:22Guest:And yeah, it was chaotic.

00:22:23Guest:And he went on to have more?

00:22:25Guest:You know, probably.

00:22:26Guest:He got married after my mom, and she had three kids, and so he was a stepdad to them.

00:22:37Marc:So there's five kids, and...

00:22:40Marc:What was going on in the house?

00:22:42Marc:Do you remember, like, you have older siblings, so they must know, they must have been directly affected in a conscious way of whatever the hell was going on there.

00:22:50Guest:Yeah, I mean, my sister's 15 months older, and so we were basically twins, you know, so we were in the same grade.

00:22:57Guest:Yeah.

00:22:58Guest:And so I have the memories where like my sister's 10 years younger than me.

00:23:02Guest:She doesn't know anything.

00:23:03Guest:Right.

00:23:03Guest:Because when we left my dad, she was two.

00:23:05Guest:Yeah.

00:23:06Guest:And so I have all the memories.

00:23:08Guest:And it was, yeah, I mean, it was just really, it was really poor.

00:23:11Guest:It was super poor.

00:23:13Guest:Yeah.

00:23:13Guest:Very chaotic.

00:23:15Guest:But like, you know, everyone says like kids are resilient.

00:23:18Marc:Yeah.

00:23:18Guest:You know, it's true.

00:23:19Guest:Like we were just like, if it's your norm, then you're like, this is my life.

00:23:23Guest:It's fine.

00:23:23Marc:But what was going on?

00:23:24Guest:It was, I mean, it was like what I said in the film too.

00:23:27Guest:It was just like really, like my dad would like, he would leave sometime.

00:23:31Guest:My mom would call it like, oh, your dad's going out on a walkabout again.

00:23:35Guest:And then he wouldn't come back for two years.

00:23:37Guest:And I'm like, that's a long walk.

00:23:39Guest:Really?

00:23:39Guest:Yeah.

00:23:40Guest:And like, we were so young, like four years old.

00:23:43Guest:I was four when he went out for two years.

00:23:46Guest:And then, you know, he would do that all the time.

00:23:48Guest:Yeah.

00:23:49Guest:Yeah.

00:23:49Marc:So how did your mother survive?

00:23:52Marc:Just on the gas station or help?

00:23:54Guest:I mean, she was on, you know, government aid for a while.

00:23:59Guest:And then his family lived down there, like in the country, in Illinois.

00:24:03Marc:Your dad's family.

00:24:03Marc:Yeah.

00:24:04Guest:And so they kind of took care of each other.

00:24:06Guest:Like she was friends with his sister.

00:24:08Guest:And then his mom always took us in if we needed it.

00:24:12Marc:Oh, really?

00:24:12Marc:Yeah.

00:24:13Marc:And they knew that he was a problem?

00:24:16Guest:Yeah.

00:24:18I mean...

00:24:18Guest:I mean, it's just so different down there.

00:24:20Guest:They were like Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:24:22Guest:And so it's like none of them, I don't know.

00:24:26Guest:He just like went off the rails, I guess.

00:24:28Guest:But I think a few of his siblings did.

00:24:31Marc:Oh, really?

00:24:31Marc:Yeah.

00:24:31Marc:You don't know them?

00:24:33Marc:I mean, I've met them.

00:24:35Marc:Your curiosity didn't drive you to make a broader documentary?

00:24:40Guest:It'll be the next one.

00:24:41Guest:Yeah.

00:24:41Guest:About your dad's family?

00:24:42Guest:It's going to be just like some guys like sitting in overalls on their porch.

00:24:46Yeah.

00:24:46Marc:Well, they're probably willing to talk.

00:24:49Guest:Hey, I'm from Hollywood.

00:24:50Marc:Yeah.

00:24:51Marc:That's always good with those people.

00:24:52Guest:Yeah.

00:24:53Marc:They love that right away.

00:24:54Guest:They love California.

00:24:55Marc:Yeah.

00:24:56Marc:So you're four and he splits for two years and then you just get used to him being gone and then he comes back.

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Marc:And what is that?

00:25:05Marc:My mom always said-

00:25:07Guest:Sorry, kids.

00:25:09Guest:Yeah.

00:25:10Guest:He was like my mom said when he would leave and when he would come back, it would be harder for her.

00:25:17Guest:It was easier when he was gone in a lot of ways.

00:25:20Guest:And so like it's like she had to take care of another person.

00:25:24Marc:So he would come back, but you weren't old enough to really know.

00:25:28Marc:There must have been fighting.

00:25:30Marc:Where the fuck were you?

00:25:31Marc:Was he staying in touch for the two years?

00:25:32Guest:I feel like my mom was super Catholic and very afraid of conflict.

00:25:40Guest:And I think she was more quiet than anything.

00:25:42Guest:I don't think she was instigating any sort of fights.

00:25:44Marc:She just leaned into the suffering?

00:25:46Marc:Yeah.

00:25:47Marc:So there wasn't a lot of fighting.

00:25:48Guest:I don't remember.

00:25:49Guest:I mean, like, I remember fights that would lead to, like, throwing hit, like, if he really went for it, you know?

00:25:58Guest:The day that we, when we left and we moved to Chicago, it was, like, physical.

00:26:04Guest:It was everything.

00:26:04Guest:I was screaming.

00:26:05Marc:I was 12, yeah.

00:26:06Marc:So he comes back after two years, and then what happens?

00:26:10Marc:When does he end up in prison?

00:26:11Guest:So he was in prison when my older sister was born.

00:26:15Marc:Oh, okay.

00:26:15Marc:Yeah.

00:26:15Marc:So when you were younger.

00:26:18Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:26:18Guest:Yeah, I don't even remember it.

00:26:20Marc:How long was he in for?

00:26:20Guest:And then he's been in, I don't know, maybe three or four years.

00:26:23Marc:But your mom didn't drag you all there to see him?

00:26:25Guest:Well, my mom was pregnant when he was at Joliet State Prison.

00:26:30Marc:Yeah.

00:26:31Guest:Which is closed down now.

00:26:31Guest:But she was pregnant and went to go visit him.

00:26:35Guest:Yeah.

00:26:35Yeah.

00:26:35Guest:And then when she was, when my sister Mikayla was born, he was in prison.

00:26:39Guest:Cause I was asking her the other day, she was out here visiting.

00:26:41Guest:I was like, I was like, well, what was he at least supportive when you were having your babies?

00:26:47Guest:Like at the hospital?

00:26:49Guest:She's like, oh no.

00:26:50Guest:She's like, well, he was in prison with Mikayla.

00:26:53Guest:And I was like, okay, so no.

00:26:54Guest:He goes, and he was, he was drunk when you were born.

00:26:58Guest:And I was like, okay.

00:26:59Guest:And I was like, and you kept going like this guy, we got to have more kids with this guy.

00:27:03Marc:Yeah.

00:27:03Marc:How does she answer those questions?

00:27:05Guest:She was just optimistic.

00:27:07Marc:How old was she?

00:27:08Guest:23, 24.

00:27:09Guest:And then she's like, well, I just thought he'd come around.

00:27:13Guest:I was like, all right, well, some of this is on you.

00:27:15Marc:Yeah.

00:27:16Marc:It's weird when you get into that, though, because I've been in those situations where you think people will come around.

00:27:20Marc:Right.

00:27:20Marc:I mean, it's obviously not that bad, but if you have that personality...

00:27:24Marc:where you're not hip to the nature of codependency and the fact that you really can't change people unless they want to change.

00:27:34Marc:I mean, you're in for a ride for as long as it takes for you to get woke about it.

00:27:38Guest:Right.

00:27:39Guest:Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting around on myself to change.

00:27:43Marc:Yeah, no, I know.

00:27:44Marc:Yeah.

00:27:44Marc:Because you feel like you go through these periods where you're like, I think I grew out of that.

00:27:48Marc:And then something happens.

00:27:49Marc:You're like, oh, no, I'm the exact same.

00:27:51Marc:Exactly.

00:27:51Marc:But you can choose not to act on it.

00:27:55Marc:This is the best you can do.

00:27:56Marc:Right.

00:27:56Marc:Like, I know what this is.

00:27:57Marc:I'm not going to fucking do it.

00:27:59Right.

00:28:00Guest:I've been here before.

00:28:01Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:03Marc:I don't need to act the way I did before that ruined everything.

00:28:07Guest:I feel like that anytime I'm on stage and I really want to go into somebody talking or on their phone or something, and I just go, you're not seeing it.

00:28:14Guest:Just don't look that way.

00:28:16Marc:And no one knows it, so just kind of look above them.

00:28:20Guest:Yeah.

00:28:21Marc:Yeah, I had that in fucking in Napa the other night.

00:28:25Marc:I like, you know, in crowd insanity at a theater.

00:28:28Marc:Like one woman was just shit faced and wouldn't stop, you know, yelping.

00:28:32Marc:And then another woman was sort of obsessed and parasocial with me and decided that she needed to give me a gift about 20 minutes into the show.

00:28:40Marc:Wow.

00:28:40Marc:Mark, I brought this stuff for you.

00:28:43Marc:And people were like, what is happening?

00:28:45Marc:And she's like, I love you.

00:28:46Marc:And she's holding a bag.

00:28:49Marc:She's standing up.

00:28:50Marc:They pass it up to me, some handsome cat toy and a little Ganesh statue.

00:28:56Marc:It was all very nice, but it was odd.

00:28:58Guest:Yeah, and I think it's because, like, nobody brings me gifts, but I've opened for people where people want to bring them a gift.

00:29:04Guest:I think it's because they know you're getting off the stage when you're done with your set.

00:29:08Guest:They're like, this is my time.

00:29:09Marc:Yeah, they might not get you after.

00:29:11Marc:But then it became this long conversation.

00:29:13Marc:And, you know, it's hard.

00:29:15Marc:Your nature with crowd work is, you know, you're going to shut this shit down.

00:29:20Marc:But this woman's being nothing but, you know, open and loving.

00:29:23Marc:And I'm sort of like, hey, man, can you shut the fuck up?

00:29:25Marc:You know, like, what am I going to do?

00:29:27Yeah.

00:29:27Marc:You can't do that.

00:29:29Marc:So she keeps talking and she's insisting on giving me this gift.

00:29:32Marc:And the rest of the crowd is like, hey, shut up.

00:29:34Marc:I'm like, take it easy.

00:29:36Marc:This is not a hostile situation.

00:29:39Marc:This is like a person who somehow doesn't know that she's in a room full of people and she's got a gift.

00:29:46Marc:So let's just ride this out.

00:29:48Marc:But then the other woman, the drunk woman, then I had to get angry.

00:29:51Marc:And that moment where...

00:29:53Marc:You shift out.

00:29:55Marc:Like, crowd work's one thing, but there is a moment where you honestly get angry, and you're either going to show that or you're not.

00:30:02Marc:And if you show it, some part of you realize is like, all right, well, now they've seen that.

00:30:06Marc:Right.

00:30:07Marc:And now we've got to get back to nice guy or whatever the fuck.

00:30:11Marc:That's so true.

00:30:12Marc:Person who does his job.

00:30:13Guest:Yeah.

00:30:14Guest:You're like, let me get back to my act.

00:30:15Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:16Marc:Like, I always say, like, all right, so now you see who I really am.

00:30:19Marc:Let me try to get back.

00:30:23Marc:I know everyone's nervous.

00:30:25Marc:Daddy yelled.

00:30:28Guest:It's so hard because it's so much more entertaining, and we all know it because we've been in crowds, to see what is going to unfold when a heckler is there.

00:30:37Guest:And that's why it's so hard to go back because you're like, well, nothing's more entertaining than what we're seeing now.

00:30:41Marc:Kind of.

00:30:42Marc:But I know how to do crowd work.

00:30:44Marc:I'm good at it.

00:30:45Marc:But I'd rather do the shit that I'm working on.

00:30:48Marc:Oh, same.

00:30:48Marc:Yeah.

00:30:48Marc:So when you get into a crowd situation, if it's cute and it kills, you know, it becomes very real.

00:30:55Marc:But if it's managerial, then you just want to get it dealt with.

00:30:59Marc:Like, you know, eventually they got that woman out of there and I could hear it happening.

00:31:04Marc:And it's a theater and everyone can hear it happening.

00:31:06Marc:And I just stopped talking.

00:31:08Marc:And I just for like a good 45 to a minute, I'm just sort of like, we're just going to wait until...

00:31:14Marc:She processes what's happening because you could hear that like, no, I'm like, all right, I'm not.

00:31:21Marc:There's nothing to do here.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah.

00:31:22Marc:And just no one else.

00:31:24Marc:Let's just sit calmly for as long as this takes.

00:31:27Guest:That's actually a really good idea because it's going to be split focus.

00:31:31Marc:Yeah.

00:31:32Marc:It's just like, you know, it's being taken care of.

00:31:35Marc:So why pretend like we're just going to blow over this, you know, wait till it's done and just be like, is everyone OK?

00:31:41Marc:You know.

00:31:42Guest:I still think it's funny.

00:31:43Guest:Somebody crocheting a toy.

00:31:44Guest:Hey, hey, lady, shut up.

00:31:47Guest:It's just so funny.

00:31:48Guest:Hey, fuck your toy.

00:31:50Guest:You could have a whole 15 minutes at the end where you just accept gifts from everybody.

00:31:54Marc:Yeah, well, I tried to put a kibosh on that a little bit because people don't realize it's like I'm traveling.

00:32:01Marc:I carry on my baggage.

00:32:03Marc:I can't take the painting.

00:32:05Marc:Right.

00:32:05Marc:Yeah.

00:32:08Guest:Checking all the cat toys, the paintings.

00:32:11Marc:Some guy, as a joke, because I did an Instagram Live about, like, getting the cats out and, you know, bringing, like, when I evacuated, I brought a utility knife.

00:32:20Marc:Like, you know, in order to get Buster out of the box, I taped him into it.

00:32:25Marc:And some guy in Sacramento gave me a new utility knife and I got to leave on the plane from Napa the next day.

00:32:33Marc:I'm like, well, I hope the house cleaning staff has a use for this because I'm not going to try to get this on the plane.

00:32:42Marc:And I take it all home because I don't have the heart to throw it away.

00:32:45Guest:I know.

00:32:46Guest:Well, especially if it's homemade.

00:32:47Guest:Yeah.

00:32:48Marc:Yeah.

00:32:48Marc:And then it's just another thing.

00:32:49Marc:You know, it's nice, but I have a lot of stuff.

00:32:51Marc:So I had to kind of limit that.

00:32:54Marc:Yeah.

00:32:55Marc:So, okay.

00:32:56Marc:So what was the scene when your dad, when your mom kind of ran away for good?

00:33:02Guest:Yeah, so we were living in, like, in the specialized show, the house that we lived in, which was just demolished.

00:33:10Guest:And that house was disgusting.

00:33:13Guest:And we were living there.

00:33:15Guest:It was, like, you know, seven people and, like, 14 pets and two houses.

00:33:18Marc:Is that the house in the show you went to that's no longer there?

00:33:21Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:33:21Guest:And it was, like, you know... Outdoor plumbing.

00:33:24Guest:Yeah, just, like, there's, like, a well.

00:33:26Guest:And it was disgusting.

00:33:27Marc:I would never be able to deal with that.

00:33:29Marc:And that was in...

00:33:31Marc:In Illinois?

00:33:32Guest:Yeah, that was like outside Armington, Illinois.

00:33:34Guest:Yeah.

00:33:35Guest:Which is like mostly where I grew up was this, because it was outside the town, a while outside the town.

00:33:39Guest:So there's nothing to do.

00:33:40Guest:Most of the time we had nothing going on, no cable.

00:33:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:33:44Guest:Yeah.

00:33:45Guest:But so my dad, I don't know, I must have been drunk or something.

00:33:47Guest:I don't remember all of the details.

00:33:49Guest:I just remember...

00:33:50Guest:he him going off on a rampage throwing throwing this like huge atlas book it like hitting the tv he's like kicked my mom in the back as she's like changing my sister's diaper like just really terrible rampage yeah and as i'm doing to just breaking all your stuff um and and then my mom was just like that's enough she you know she just hit it and she goes we're leaving oh yeah that was it yeah

00:34:17Marc:Yeah, that's it's an interesting moment, that clarity.

00:34:20Marc:And you do what you have to do.

00:34:22Marc:Yeah.

00:34:22Marc:So your dad's like kind of bumbling around the house violently and she just loads the car up.

00:34:26Guest:And she goes and well, so she gets in the car with all of us.

00:34:29Marc:And you're how old?

00:34:30Marc:Twelve.

00:34:31Marc:Oh, my God.

00:34:31Marc:So that's like real memory.

00:34:33Guest:And I'm the helper.

00:34:34Marc:Yeah.

00:34:34Guest:You know, so we have like that one of those station wagons, the Woody station wagon.

00:34:38Marc:Yeah, like a Caprice station wagon.

00:34:39Guest:It's like a Mercury grand something.

00:34:42Marc:With the fake wood paneling.

00:34:43Marc:Exactly.

00:34:43Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:43Guest:It's like opens like.

00:34:45Marc:Old style.

00:34:45Marc:Yeah, the big back door.

00:34:46Marc:Swinging back door.

00:34:47Marc:Swinging back door.

00:34:48Marc:Yeah.

00:34:49Guest:And so we get in there.

00:34:50Guest:He's throwing shit at the car.

00:34:52Guest:We're backing up.

00:34:53Guest:Yeah.

00:34:54Yeah.

00:34:54Marc:So you're driving away and you just see an angry, raging man in the rear view?

00:34:57Marc:Yeah.

00:34:58Guest:And you're just like, and you know, she's trying to get everybody.

00:35:00Marc:And probably two of you are in the back looking out that back window.

00:35:02Guest:Yeah.

00:35:03Guest:And it's, and then, so we try to get a hotel that night.

00:35:08Guest:We can't get a hotel.

00:35:09Guest:She, we end up staying with my granny, who's my dad's mom.

00:35:12Marc:Yeah.

00:35:13Marc:And she's like, he's at it again.

00:35:15Marc:Yeah.

00:35:16Guest:And then she tries to convince my mom to stay.

00:35:18Marc:Yeah.

00:35:19Guest:And my mom's like, I'm getting out of here.

00:35:21Guest:Wow.

00:35:21Guest:So then my grandpa comes down.

00:35:23Guest:And he starts raging.

00:35:25Guest:Yeah.

00:35:25Guest:So then he starts throwing shit at us.

00:35:29Yeah.

00:35:29Guest:My grandma gets in on it.

00:35:31Guest:There was a few things.

00:35:33Marc:Wow.

00:35:33Marc:But he helped.

00:35:35Guest:My grandpa from my mom, my mom's dad, came down from Chicago.

00:35:39Marc:Oh, okay.

00:35:40Guest:Drove down, packed us all up, and then we moved in with them.

00:35:44Marc:Oh, thank God.

00:35:44Guest:Yeah.

00:35:45Guest:And we lived happily ever after.

00:35:46Marc:Oh, good.

00:35:48Marc:Did you, was there room?

00:35:49Marc:Did you, like, what...

00:35:50Guest:Yeah, I lived in the attic.

00:35:53Guest:I mean, right.

00:35:54Guest:Yeah.

00:35:54Marc:But at least you're in a relatively loving environment.

00:35:57Guest:Yeah.

00:35:58Guest:I mean, her family loves us.

00:35:59Marc:Yeah.

00:36:00Marc:I mean, it was rough.

00:36:02Marc:Yeah.

00:36:03Marc:Right.

00:36:04Marc:Right.

00:36:04Marc:And then so then what happens?

00:36:06Marc:You got to change schools.

00:36:07Marc:You got to do.

00:36:08Marc:Yeah.

00:36:08Guest:Yeah, we changed the school.

00:36:09Guest:But I was, you know, I feel I don't know if I'm like psycho or not, but I just didn't feel any trauma at this point or like I was excited to leave.

00:36:17Guest:I was excited to like possibly be popular at this next school.

00:36:20Guest:Well, you're a kid.

00:36:21Marc:Yeah.

00:36:22Marc:It's not like, you know, yeah.

00:36:23Marc:How do you I mean, you don't register that kind of trauma unless someone beats the shit out of you or does something awful.

00:36:29Marc:Right.

00:36:30Marc:You're just sort of like, oh, grandma.

00:36:31Marc:Yeah.

00:36:32Guest:Oh, this is fun.

00:36:33Guest:Yeah, right.

00:36:34Guest:Near the city.

00:36:35Guest:Yeah.

00:36:36Marc:And did you, how was that new school?

00:36:39Guest:I mean, it was a lot, but you know, I'm going from a rinky dink school to like straight up.

00:36:46Guest:I mean, the thousands of kids and you're just, but it was fine.

00:36:51Guest:I mean, like looking back, I made friends really easily.

00:36:53Guest:So I was like, I had friends, did terrible in my school.

00:36:56Guest:Yeah.

00:36:57Guest:Made friends, went on, you know, joined the basketball team, that sort of thing.

00:37:01Marc:You did the jock thing.

00:37:02Guest:Yeah, I did a little bit of the jock, a little bit of the art.

00:37:04Marc:What was the art?

00:37:06Guest:Just drawing.

00:37:07Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:37:08Guest:Yeah.

00:37:08Marc:But you had friends.

00:37:09Guest:Nothing real.

00:37:10Marc:I was in band.

00:37:11Guest:I was in marching band.

00:37:12Marc:Oh, really?

00:37:13Marc:You did the full spectrum from jock to dork.

00:37:15Guest:I did.

00:37:16Guest:Yeah.

00:37:17Marc:With a little art in the middle.

00:37:19Marc:Yeah.

00:37:20Guest:I guess I was trying everything.

00:37:22Marc:See what would fit.

00:37:22Marc:What you fit in?

00:37:23Guest:Yeah.

00:37:24Marc:Well, what did you play in marching band?

00:37:26Marc:Trumpet.

00:37:27Marc:Oh.

00:37:27Guest:Yeah.

00:37:28Guest:And I was also a flag, like color guard, flag girl.

00:37:30Marc:You spun the flags around?

00:37:31Marc:Yeah.

00:37:32Marc:The baton stuff?

00:37:32Guest:Yeah, that's right.

00:37:33Marc:Man, you just, you attacked it from all angles.

00:37:35Marc:I did.

00:37:35Marc:For the friendships.

00:37:36Marc:Seen what would stick.

00:37:37Marc:And did you maintain friends in all different factions?

00:37:42Marc:Yeah.

00:37:42Guest:Pretty much.

00:37:44Guest:Yeah.

00:37:44Guest:I mean, I don't think any of my friends ended up really doing any of those things.

00:37:48Guest:They were all, we were all just drinking.

00:37:50Marc:No one stuck with the flag stuff.

00:37:52Guest:Yeah.

00:37:52Marc:As a life.

00:37:54Guest:No.

00:37:54Guest:Can you imagine?

00:37:56Marc:What are you up to?

00:37:57Marc:I'm still spinning the, you know.

00:37:59Guest:Oh my God.

00:38:01Marc:You're really locked in, huh?

00:38:03Marc:What is the market for something like that?

00:38:05Marc:I do corporate stuff.

00:38:06Guest:I do open mics.

00:38:08Guest:Yeah, I do the improv.

00:38:11Marc:I've got a big following on social media.

00:38:14Marc:What is this now?

00:38:17Marc:Oh, okay.

00:38:18Marc:Nothing.

00:38:18Guest:Are we being evacuated?

00:38:20Marc:No, no.

00:38:21Marc:It's just a...

00:38:23Marc:A friend.

00:38:24Marc:But that's so weird how vigilant you get.

00:38:27Marc:Like, oh, God.

00:38:27Marc:Yeah.

00:38:29Marc:Okay.

00:38:29Marc:So now when do you – so you just stayed with your grandparents through high school?

00:38:36Guest:We stayed – no, we stayed for maybe six months or a year.

00:38:41Guest:And then we moved to a domestic violence shelter for like 18 months.

00:38:45Yeah.

00:38:45Marc:Because he came after you?

00:38:46Guest:No, because they have, I mean, they had like a great program.

00:38:49Marc:Oh, okay.

00:38:50Guest:And so we had to apply for it first.

00:38:51Marc:For people that flee?

00:38:52Guest:Yeah.

00:38:53Marc:Okay.

00:38:53Guest:And then nobody like, you can't, the building's like unmarked, obviously.

00:38:57Guest:It's just like a brick apartment building.

00:38:59Marc:Like a hiding place.

00:39:00Guest:Yeah.

00:39:01Marc:Yeah.

00:39:01Guest:And so, but they gave us, it's a full apartment.

00:39:03Guest:It was three bedrooms.

00:39:04Guest:It was nice.

00:39:05Marc:Yeah.

00:39:05Guest:Yeah.

00:39:06Guest:Especially after living with your grandparents, you're just like happy to, but we weren't allowed to have because everyone in there was like, it was, you know, it was a mom and her kids.

00:39:16Guest:Like there were like four or five apartment buildings.

00:39:18Guest:Right.

00:39:19Guest:So we couldn't have like boys.

00:39:21Guest:Right.

00:39:22Guest:Outside, outside boys, men in that apartment building.

00:39:26Guest:So, you know, I'm like eighth grade.

00:39:29Marc:Yeah.

00:39:29Marc:Even to, Oh, so not quite dating, but still they were around boys over.

00:39:34Marc:Sure.

00:39:34Marc:Yeah.

00:39:35Marc:Yeah.

00:39:35Marc:So you got to have a place to go make out.

00:39:38Guest:Yeah.

00:39:38Marc:Yeah.

00:39:39Guest:Meet some of these boys on the marching band field.

00:39:42Guest:Bring them over.

00:39:43Guest:So, yeah, we used to sneak boys in.

00:39:45Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:39:45Marc:Yeah.

00:39:46Marc:But they were eighth graders.

00:39:47Guest:Yeah.

00:39:47Marc:So they weren't threatening.

00:39:49Guest:Yeah.

00:39:50Guest:They still weren't allowed.

00:39:50Guest:But, you know, we're just rebels like that.

00:39:53Marc:And you stayed there for 18 months.

00:39:55Guest:Yeah.

00:39:55Marc:See, like, isn't it interesting when social services works and, you know, people are actually taken care of?

00:40:00Guest:And we had to go.

00:40:01Guest:I mean, it was required that we went to counseling.

00:40:03Guest:So we had to go to like counseling as a child every week.

00:40:08Marc:And did you do you remember making friends with the other kids who were traumatized?

00:40:13Guest:I mean, it was at first I was in the kid group because I was like 12.

00:40:17Marc:Yeah.

00:40:17Guest:And then I was moved.

00:40:19Guest:I was like, please put me in the teenage group, get to the teenage group.

00:40:23Guest:And those girls had like the stories.

00:40:25Guest:I was like, it was a whole awakening for me because, I mean, they had a lot of trauma, but they also were like already, you know, they were sexual.

00:40:34Guest:And like, yeah.

00:40:35Guest:And I was like, whoa, this is too much for me.

00:40:38Marc:Right.

00:40:39Marc:At 13.

00:40:40Guest:Yeah.

00:40:40Marc:Yeah.

00:40:41Marc:And then you're kind of like, I think I want to go back with the kids.

00:40:43Marc:Yeah.

00:40:43Marc:Too much information.

00:40:45Guest:Yeah, it was.

00:40:45Guest:I was like, I just want to go back and play that game, the games we were playing.

00:40:49Marc:Spin the bottle and whatnot.

00:40:51Marc:Yeah.

00:40:51Marc:Oh, my God.

00:40:52Marc:So, like, okay, so you stayed there for 18 months and where?

00:40:57Guest:So then we get Section 8 housing.

00:40:59Marc:Okay.

00:40:59Guest:And we live on Austin Boulevard in Oak Park, which is Austin.

00:41:06Marc:Okay, I was going to say Austin Boulevard.

00:41:07Marc:That's a good sign.

00:41:08Guest:We went to Austin, yeah.

00:41:10Guest:living on awesome boulevard and it was uh you know it's the border between chicago and oak park how old are you you're 13 when you move yeah well we were 12 when we moved to chicago yeah yeah and then everything changes everything changes yeah life gets real and it's a different school so you're going to high school different place i'm having fun yeah yeah i made all new friends immediately and the dad's completely gone

00:41:33Guest:He's yeah.

00:41:34Marc:He doesn't come to visit, doesn't reach out.

00:41:37Guest:The next summer we went to like as part of the agreement.

00:41:42Marc:Yeah.

00:41:42Guest:We go to his house.

00:41:43Marc:Yeah.

00:41:43Guest:And then that's the only summer we ever went there.

00:41:46Guest:We went for like two weeks.

00:41:48Marc:And was it a nightmare?

00:41:49Guest:I mean, we were, you know, we were having fun.

00:41:51Guest:He was just working the whole time.

00:41:53Guest:He had a girlfriend.

00:41:55Guest:Right.

00:41:55Guest:Yeah.

00:41:57Guest:That's the summer I got my period, as I mentioned in the special.

00:41:59Guest:Yeah.

00:42:00Guest:So it was a big, yeah, it was pretty exciting for me.

00:42:02Guest:How'd he handle that?

00:42:03Guest:Well, I told him I lied and I was like, I think Sandra got her period.

00:42:07Guest:We have to go get her some pads.

00:42:11Marc:I just can't, like, I can't imagine that guy, you know, who, you know, you see at the end of this journey in the documentary was capable of anything.

00:42:19Guest:Yeah, it was not somebody you wanted to talk to.

00:42:23Guest:He's a scary guy.

00:42:24Marc:Yeah.

00:42:25Marc:I mean, he reads scary.

00:42:26Guest:Yeah, he was scary.

00:42:28Guest:Yeah.

00:42:28Guest:But I mean, I guess he had his moments.

00:42:30Guest:He's very like quiet.

00:42:32Marc:Yeah.

00:42:32Marc:You know that?

00:42:33Marc:Yeah.

00:42:33Marc:Maybe that's why he didn't include the full interview.

00:42:36Marc:Yeah.

00:42:36Guest:You find out he's a great guy.

00:42:37Marc:Well, it's definitely when he sat down, he's like, all right, so what are we doing?

00:42:41Guest:Yeah.

00:42:42Guest:Yeah.

00:42:43Marc:I guess because he saw the camera there.

00:42:45Guest:Well, he knew there was going to be cameras because we miked him.

00:42:49Guest:Yeah.

00:42:49Guest:But I didn't see him until the moment that I see him in the film.

00:42:52Marc:Right, right.

00:42:53Guest:And so he was nervous.

00:42:54Marc:Oh, so he's got to deal with that.

00:42:55Marc:Right.

00:42:56Guest:He was like, what's happening?

00:42:58Guest:Right.

00:42:59Marc:So you didn't tell him when he was coming to meet you that you were going to be recording it?

00:43:03Guest:No, he knew.

00:43:04Marc:Okay.

00:43:04Guest:Yeah.

00:43:05Guest:Because I had a few friends that were doing the project with me that were in touch as well with him.

00:43:10Guest:And we're like, okay, we're going to get you mic'd up.

00:43:13Guest:And he, so he gets in there and he was like, y'all got a beer.

00:43:15Guest:And they're like, we got seven up.

00:43:18Marc:I'm going to need to take the edge off for this.

00:43:21Guest:I was like, I wish I had one at that point.

00:43:24Guest:And then, so I was like, obviously so nervous.

00:43:27Guest:We go, that is the first question I asked him.

00:43:30Guest:The whole point of the thing, I always thought it would be funny, a funny joke to myself to do all this work and ask him a stupid question at the end.

00:43:38Guest:And so I did that.

00:43:41Guest:And then we ended up going to a bar like later that night and we had a drink.

00:43:46Marc:Yeah.

00:43:46Marc:Oh, okay.

00:43:47Marc:But you asked him the favorite color and stuff.

00:43:49Marc:I thought that was kind of funny.

00:43:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:51Marc:Because you could almost see something childlike in there, but he couldn't quite access it.

00:43:57Marc:Yeah.

00:43:57Marc:But he played along.

00:43:58Guest:He did, and then I was like, okay, that's it.

00:44:02Guest:And he was like, okay.

00:44:04Guest:And then we actually played catch.

00:44:05Guest:We didn't put that in there, but I wanted to play catch with him in that field.

00:44:09Guest:Why didn't you put that in there?

00:44:10Guest:It just looked wild.

00:44:12Guest:I mean, I was on adrenaline or something.

00:44:15Guest:Too tweaked?

00:44:17Guest:Yeah.

00:44:19Guest:Well, then he thought like, oh, are you just trying to make fun of me?

00:44:21Marc:Oh, right.

00:44:22Guest:Because you can throw further than me.

00:44:24Marc:Oh, so then it became like a scary issue again.

00:44:28Guest:Then we're like competitive.

00:44:29Marc:Well, that's very telling.

00:44:30Marc:I mean, that, you know, that mindset, like how, like in that situation, even that simple, how is that not volatile?

00:44:40Marc:Yeah.

00:44:40Marc:And it had to have always been that way.

00:44:41Marc:That sense of being threatened.

00:44:43Marc:Right.

00:44:44Marc:Because of your, like whatever, insecurity or whatever.

00:44:47Guest:Yeah.

00:44:47Marc:Huh.

00:44:49Marc:So in high school, do you continue with the band and the trumpet and everything?

00:44:53Guest:Yeah, I did all that throughout high school and I did like basketball.

00:44:57Marc:No theater?

00:44:58No.

00:44:58Guest:No theater, no.

00:44:59Guest:I mean, I did a play in the summer once, but I was really, I mean, I had terrible stage fright.

00:45:06Guest:Like, it was hard for me to say my name in class.

00:45:10Marc:Yeah.

00:45:11Guest:But then outside of class, it was fine.

00:45:12Guest:Yeah.

00:45:13Guest:My friends, everything.

00:45:14Guest:But, like, I was, like, the sweaty kid.

00:45:16Guest:Me too.

00:45:17Marc:Yeah.

00:45:17Marc:It's interesting that when you're like that and then we end up here.

00:45:20Marc:I mean, I was a smartass.

00:45:21Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:45:21Marc:But if asked to or, you know, if I had to do something public, like I could crack jokes and, you know, and disrupt.

00:45:30Marc:But if it's sort of like tomorrow you're going to have to get up in front of everybody, it's like, no.

00:45:35Guest:Yeah.

00:45:36Guest:No, I was the same.

00:45:37Guest:I could disrupt and I could be funny and I would be at the disciplinary center.

00:45:41Guest:But, like, if they're like, you have to say your name and what you did this summer, I'm dead.

00:45:45Guest:Yeah.

00:45:45Marc:Yeah, it's a fucking nightmare.

00:45:48Marc:But what about the thing with, when does the boys thing crap out on you?

00:45:56Guest:I mean, looking back, it's hilarious because I'm just like, I don't need, I was like, I feel like everybody says they need intimacy and sex.

00:46:03Guest:And I'm like, I don't need this in my life to survive.

00:46:06Guest:And it's like, oh, yeah, well, it's because.

00:46:08Marc:But you didn't have any inclination that you were gay early on?

00:46:12Guest:No, it really happened when I started comedy.

00:46:16Marc:Oh, that's wild.

00:46:17Guest:It was almost like it broke me open.

00:46:18Marc:So when you were with boys, you were just sort of like, I guess this is supposed to be good.

00:46:22Guest:We were like, yeah, like my college boyfriend, I dated him for two years.

00:46:27Guest:Oh, my God.

00:46:27Guest:And I had a high school boyfriend for four years.

00:46:29Marc:Yeah, and you were having sex.

00:46:30Guest:Yeah.

00:46:31Marc:And it was just sort of like, I don't know.

00:46:32Guest:I mean, I could count the amount of times on my hand.

00:46:35Guest:I was... Right.

00:46:35Guest:Yeah.

00:46:36Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:36Marc:Yeah.

00:46:37Marc:But it was sort of like, it was sort of like, this is supposed to be good?

00:46:40Marc:I'm not... Right.

00:46:41Guest:I'm just like, this is... I'm like, all right, I guess some people need this.

00:46:44Guest:I mean... I was like, I could go my whole life without this.

00:46:50Guest:I guess I'm just stronger than everyone.

00:46:52Right.

00:46:52Marc:Yeah, this seems crazy and messy, and I don't know what he wants.

00:46:57Guest:Yeah, like, you again?

00:46:58Marc:Yeah, what do I do?

00:47:02Marc:Didn't you talk about that sad handjob?

00:47:05Marc:What was that in the special?

00:47:07Guest:Oh, yeah, you're just like, I don't know, nobody tells you how hard you're supposed to pull.

00:47:11Marc:There's no book.

00:47:12Marc:You're just competitive with yourself.

00:47:15Marc:Yeah, you assume that that's a memorable thing for the wrong reason for that guy, yeah.

00:47:19Guest:Don't you like getting a handjob from a lesbian?

00:47:23Marc:Yeah.

00:47:23Marc:What's the matter with you?

00:47:24Marc:It's a rare gift.

00:47:29Guest:My wrist's so strong from that color guard.

00:47:33Marc:Yeah.

00:47:34Marc:I'm surprised you didn't use both hands.

00:47:36Guest:but uh okay so after high school did you go to college yeah i went to the university of wyoming for no damn reason really just because you got in i i got in it was like basically 97 of the people that apply get in yeah right and i was like all right all right yeah you didn't live there so did you have to pay was a state school i mean yeah yeah but it was less expensive than any other like for out-of-state tuition and is that where you start doing comedy

00:48:01Guest:So I, I'm going there.

00:48:03Guest:I'm like every other semester I'm failing out.

00:48:06Guest:Cause I am just don't, you know, I have two jobs and work at the radio station working as a photographer.

00:48:11Guest:I don't, I'm working, working like all these jobs trying to keep up.

00:48:15Guest:I don't care about school that much.

00:48:17Guest:And then basically one semester from graduating, I was just not going to school and I was working.

00:48:24Marc:Yeah.

00:48:25Guest:And then I was, and then I started a comedy.

00:48:27Guest:I was like, you know, I just.

00:48:29Marc:In Wyoming.

00:48:30Yeah.

00:48:30Guest:Well, I decided, oh, I think I could do that.

00:48:35Guest:Like watching SNL stuff.

00:48:36Guest:It's like, oh, I wonder how they started.

00:48:37Guest:And then I go, oh, they did improv.

00:48:40Guest:So I called the improv theater in Denver, which is three hours away.

00:48:43Guest:And I was like, hey, I'd like to sign up for classes.

00:48:47Guest:So I start improv classes once a week.

00:48:50Marc:Driving down there, three hours.

00:48:52Guest:And the first time I did improv, I was like, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life.

00:48:57Guest:Keep in mind, I'm terrible at improv.

00:49:00Marc:But you like the community?

00:49:02Marc:Seemed fun?

00:49:02Guest:I was just like, I can't believe that this is what people do.

00:49:05Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:06Guest:And then pretty quickly into that, somebody told me, you should try stand-up.

00:49:11Guest:I mean, probably five weeks in.

00:49:12Guest:Yeah.

00:49:12Guest:So then I started doing stand-up in Denver.

00:49:16Guest:So I'm driving from Wyoming, bombing.

00:49:19Guest:So I'm going over my set for the open mic the whole way down.

00:49:22Guest:Oh, three hours.

00:49:23Guest:Completely bombing and driving up at like 2.30 in the morning.

00:49:28Guest:And I do that for, I don't know, a year.

00:49:30Guest:once a week yeah and then i moved and then i was like that's crazy and what were you you were writing jokes yeah i was writing jokes trying to figure it out yeah and just going up and tanking yeah oh yeah because it was that thing i had that thing where it was like first 10 times i'm like i'm not bad at this and then at least two years straight just like really bad really but i never i just kept going

00:49:55Marc:Did you, when you look back on it, does the style make sense?

00:50:00Marc:Were you still doing kind of like straight jokes and just holding, yeah, just waiting?

00:50:07Guest:Yeah.

00:50:08Marc:Yeah.

00:50:09Guest:Like, isn't something supposed to, aren't people supposed to laugh during this period?

00:50:12Marc:This is where I thought the laugh was going to happen.

00:50:15Guest:I'm still waiting.

00:50:16Guest:No, you would do that.

00:50:17Guest:recording yourself going down, you really would give it time.

00:50:21Guest:You're like, okay, good.

00:50:22Guest:Give a little time just to make sure you make your time at the open mic.

00:50:25Guest:Yeah.

00:50:26Marc:Right.

00:50:26Marc:Oh yeah.

00:50:26Guest:And you get there, it's done in 25 seconds because no one's laughing.

00:50:30Guest:Yeah.

00:50:31Marc:And you're like, that's all I got.

00:50:32Guest:Yeah.

00:50:33Marc:Do you remember when it first like started to click?

00:50:36Yeah.

00:50:37Guest:um man well i just did it all the time it just became such an open miker yeah and and i it i sometimes i feel like i'm still waiting for it to click but it's like you know it took at least 10 years yeah you know i don't maybe like maybe five years in in chicago i was like okay i get like people sort of tell you who you are as a performer right okay i guess that makes sense

00:51:03Marc:I forgot that one part of the doc.

00:51:05Marc:That was like a great part.

00:51:07Marc:The grave site of that girl.

00:51:10Marc:Yeah.

00:51:11Marc:What was that story again?

00:51:12Marc:So you used to go because there was nowhere to play in that house with the outhouse and you just go to the cemetery?

00:51:19Guest:So we basically crossed a highway to get to the cemetery.

00:51:22Guest:We played in it all the time.

00:51:23Guest:We found our cat there.

00:51:25Guest:Yeah.

00:51:25Marc:You took a graveyard cat?

00:51:27Guest:Yeah.

00:51:28Guest:She would like you'd go to her like little bowl.

00:51:30Guest:She had like a bird head in it.

00:51:31Marc:Yeah.

00:51:32Marc:Yeah.

00:51:33Marc:Well, graveyard cats are there for a reason.

00:51:35Marc:Yeah.

00:51:35Marc:But you took it.

00:51:36Guest:We took it.

00:51:37Guest:It had five kittens.

00:51:39Marc:It was, yeah.

00:51:40Marc:It's weird that cats live in graveyards, but they always do.

00:51:43Guest:I know.

00:51:43Guest:It was such a cute cat, though.

00:51:45Guest:So what was the story with that grave site?

00:51:47Guest:So...

00:51:48Guest:This girl died.

00:51:49Guest:This is actually when I stopped going to church.

00:51:52Guest:So we were at part of the Lutheran church.

00:51:54Marc:Yeah.

00:51:54Guest:This girl died when she was 16.

00:51:56Guest:And in the doc too, I call her the Michael Jordan of the graveyard because she played three sports in high school.

00:52:01Marc:And that's all you remember.

00:52:01Marc:So you were in, you were not in high school.

00:52:03Guest:No, I was a kid.

00:52:04Guest:I was in grade school.

00:52:05Guest:Yeah.

00:52:05Guest:And she died.

00:52:06Guest:And you heard about it at church?

00:52:08Guest:No, I just heard about it in the town because it happened in one of those roads.

00:52:11Guest:How'd she die?

00:52:12Guest:She died in a car accident.

00:52:14Guest:Oh, my God.

00:52:15Marc:Yeah.

00:52:15Marc:Okay.

00:52:16Guest:And so her tombstone has her etched in it playing the three sports.

00:52:21Marc:Yeah.

00:52:21Guest:And so I was always sitting by that thing.

00:52:24Guest:I was always visiting her.

00:52:26Guest:And that is truly why I stopped going to church because I was like, that's when I realized there's nothing.

00:52:31Marc:How could they kill this girl?

00:52:32Marc:Yeah.

00:52:33Marc:How'd they let this girl die?

00:52:34Marc:Yeah.

00:52:35Marc:Yeah.

00:52:36Marc:And you would go sit there and like you had a relationship.

00:52:39Guest:We play.

00:52:40Guest:And I always remembered her.

00:52:41Guest:And I always like would look, you know, even when then you get Google and stuff and I'm like looking it up.

00:52:46Marc:Yeah.

00:52:46Guest:Exactly.

00:52:46Guest:Did she die?

00:52:47Guest:And I was like, I think I think about her like I'm a family member.

00:52:51Marc:It's like a mild obsession that, you know, was a key to the universe somehow.

00:52:56Guest:It is.

00:52:56Guest:Yeah.

00:52:57Yeah.

00:52:57Marc:Yeah.

00:52:58Marc:And like, so because you couldn't wrap your brain around it.

00:53:01Guest:Innocence was lost in a way.

00:53:02Marc:Yeah.

00:53:03Marc:Because you weren't doing anything and this girl did everything.

00:53:07Marc:It seemed like she was like a perfect person.

00:53:09Marc:Yeah.

00:53:10Marc:And just gone.

00:53:11Marc:Right.

00:53:12Marc:And you're like, oh my God, hope is dead.

00:53:14Marc:Yeah.

00:53:14Marc:Exactly.

00:53:15Marc:What happens now?

00:53:15Guest:Yeah.

00:53:16Marc:And you never went back to church.

00:53:18Guest:I was supposed to do my like confirmation at the church and I'm like, I'm not going.

00:53:21Guest:My mom never even fought me on it.

00:53:23Marc:But the move to Chicago, you just did that on your own?

00:53:26Guest:Yeah, so I moved back to Chicago because it was rough.

00:53:29Marc:Oh, after Wyoming.

00:53:30Guest:I was like a hostess at a steak restaurant.

00:53:32Guest:I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here.

00:53:35Marc:What part of Wyoming?

00:53:36Guest:Well, that was in Denver, but I was in Laramie, Wyoming.

00:53:39Marc:Okay.

00:53:40Guest:Yeah, which I did a bunch of shows there.

00:53:42Marc:Yeah.

00:53:42Guest:It was actually pretty fun because they don't have any comedy.

00:53:45Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, if you're going to cut your teeth somewhere, I mean, when I was younger, it was different.

00:53:49Marc:It was all club driven and whatever.

00:53:51Marc:But, you know, it's good to be able to do it anonymously.

00:53:55Guest:Yeah.

00:53:55Marc:And just, you know, nothing's anonymous anymore.

00:53:58Marc:Right.

00:53:58Marc:You know, people are posting their videos of their first set and putting them up.

00:54:01Marc:And I'm like, I think you might regret that.

00:54:03Guest:You are going to because I had a really early set in Wyoming.

00:54:08Guest:And I remember somebody with a, I mean, you had a professional camera like the news guys.

00:54:12Marc:The VHS cameras.

00:54:14Guest:Yeah.

00:54:15Guest:The big one.

00:54:15Guest:And I remember contacting him years later.

00:54:17Guest:I was like, you don't have that tape still, do you?

00:54:19Guest:Can you burn that?

00:54:20Marc:Yeah.

00:54:21Marc:Yeah.

00:54:21Marc:Did it end up somewhere?

00:54:22Guest:No, thank God.

00:54:23Marc:But did he have it?

00:54:23Guest:He probably never did anything.

00:54:25Guest:No, he probably lost it or something.

00:54:26Marc:Yeah.

00:54:26Marc:They have fucking tapes of me on Evening at the Improv from, like, 89.

00:54:29Marc:I have, like, club tapes from 87 and 88 that some guy's making a doc on me that I gave to him, and I'm like, wow.

00:54:37Marc:They're like, look at me.

00:54:38Guest:At least if you're, like, if it's televised, at least it's your best stuff.

00:54:42Guest:These people are posting, like, absolute garbage.

00:54:45Marc:Well, they were club sets, but the most interesting about seeing that stuff is, like,

00:54:49Marc:For years, you can't look at it.

00:54:51Marc:You're like, I don't even want to see it.

00:54:53Marc:But when you kind of get grounded in what you do, you can look at it and be kind of like, oh, I was myself.

00:54:58Marc:I just wasn't good at it.

00:55:00Marc:And that's relief that you have a personality that somehow keeps going on and on.

00:55:06Guest:I'm always impressed with like how I, you know, how I was so like word for word with my jokes.

00:55:13Guest:And I was like, well, there was like, I really had like a work ethic to that where like now I'm a little loose.

00:55:17Guest:Even from this dad jokes, it's like I'm so much looser on stage.

00:55:21Guest:Even since the doc?

00:55:22Guest:Yeah.

00:55:23Marc:Well, I think that happens where...

00:55:26Marc:You have no other way to do it at the beginning than to write jokes.

00:55:30Marc:Yeah.

00:55:31Marc:There's nothing else you can do.

00:55:32Marc:And that's how you figure out, you know, how to do it in a way.

00:55:36Marc:I don't think I really broke loose of that totally until the mid-90s when, you know, all comedy started to happen and Luna Lounge started to happen where we were sort of told to try to come up with new stuff every week.

00:55:50Marc:Right.

00:55:50Marc:So then I started to, like, angrily...

00:55:52Marc:you know talk about my day and it changed everything then san francisco changed everything where you realize like you own the space up there and you know you can if you can hold them you can kind of do whatever you want right yeah it's just the the the the skill of holding an audience without them being like all right so this is

00:56:13Marc:I guess she'll be done soon.

00:56:14Marc:There's more, right?

00:56:16Guest:The amount of people that have been there with their work backpacks that clearly got free tickets from the hotel, and they're like, is this the whole thing she does?

00:56:25Marc:This could be the whole show.

00:56:26Marc:Is it all lesbian?

00:56:27Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:56:28Marc:Oh, my.

00:56:29Marc:So when you go to Chicago, where are you working?

00:56:32Guest:So, uh, so I start to do everything.

00:56:35Guest:I do like IO, I do second city, I do all the improv theaters and then I just start doing standup.

00:56:40Guest:And then I just, and at the same time I'm doing standup, which helped me because I had such terrible stage fright.

00:56:45Marc:Right.

00:56:45Marc:And were you getting any better at improv?

00:56:49Guest:Probably not.

00:56:50Marc:Like I really would forget people's names.

00:56:52Marc:Yeah.

00:56:53Guest:I went through the whole program and, but then I never would make the Herald team at the end.

00:56:57Marc:But it must have given you some confidence.

00:57:00Guest:It did.

00:57:00Guest:It helped me on stage.

00:57:02Guest:I had I really needed to get comfortable on stage because I was like so nervous.

00:57:06Guest:I mean, I think about it the entire day.

00:57:08Marc:Yeah.

00:57:08Guest:Be going to the bathroom like three times like, oh, my God, I got a five minute set.

00:57:12Marc:You know, the dread of it.

00:57:13Marc:Like, yeah, I was thinking about that with the fires and with different points in my life.

00:57:17Marc:But when you start out as a comic and, you know, for whatever reason, you have this commitment to it.

00:57:22Marc:The, you know, when you've got a set next week at an open mic, your whole week is fucked.

00:57:28Marc:It is.

00:57:29Marc:Yeah.

00:57:30Marc:Because all you're thinking about is like, I got to go up and do that thing.

00:57:34Marc:The five minutes.

00:57:35Guest:That's why you have to have a mindless job.

00:57:37Guest:You have to just have a job you don't care about.

00:57:39Guest:Yeah.

00:57:40Guest:Because if you're a doctor, which there have been some, but like, no, you have to focus on your job.

00:57:45Marc:Yeah.

00:57:46Marc:No, I, I'm trying to remember what I was doing when I was doing those.

00:57:49Marc:I worked at a coffee shop and I worked at, you know, but it was, I can't even, it becomes hard to, to, to sort of understand what the commitment was because like, you know, when you're doing it, you're like, I'm not, I don't want to do anything else.

00:58:04Marc:That's insane because it's the most uncomfortable, fucked up, anxiety inducing thing in the world.

00:58:09Marc:Yeah.

00:58:10Marc:I still, I don't have an answer to it other than like, I need to be seen.

00:58:13Marc:Yeah.

00:58:15Guest:for who i am this is me it's my turn exactly that is no i feel the same exact way i was like i don't know i have given uh my life to comedy and i have been so like you know i just think about my bank account going negative so many times in chicago and i'm like it's all like and i'm buying these wigs and i'm doing it all wigs

00:58:40Marc:Yeah.

00:58:41Guest:Because you're doing characters?

00:58:42Guest:I'm doing sketch.

00:58:43Guest:I'm doing... As a stand-up.

00:58:45Guest:I did everything.

00:58:46Guest:Yeah, I would sometimes go on the show and instead of doing stand-up, I would dress as Larry Bird and just pretend like I'm Larry Bird.

00:58:54Marc:As your stand-up set.

00:58:55Guest:Yeah.

00:58:55Marc:Wow.

00:58:56Marc:Yeah, that's ballsy.

00:58:58Marc:I just tried everything.

00:58:59Marc:I didn't do any wigs.

00:59:00Marc:I never did wigs.

00:59:01Marc:I was always sort of like, if we can get to me, whatever I am now is not really me.

00:59:07Marc:So that's the character.

00:59:09Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think I was angry guy for years.

00:59:12Guest:I feel like that's smarter in a lot of ways, though, because I don't think I was really improving as a stand-up until I let go of the wigs and the costumes.

00:59:22Marc:I wouldn't have never had the confidence to believe that I could sell that.

00:59:26Guest:Yeah.

00:59:27Marc:Yeah.

00:59:27Marc:Like, you know, I can barely be up there myself.

00:59:29Marc:I'm going to put a hat on and pretend to be a guy.

00:59:32Marc:There's just no way.

00:59:32Guest:It's weirdly so much easier, though, because you really get lost.

00:59:35Guest:Like I get lost in Larry Bird and I'm like, I'm so funny as Larry Bird.

00:59:39Guest:I'm so quick.

00:59:40Marc:Well, that's like that must be from improv.

00:59:42Guest:Yeah.

00:59:42Marc:That must have like what gave you the confidence to do that.

00:59:46Marc:Right.

00:59:46Marc:Because like to me, like getting into a character that is like completely clowning.

00:59:51Marc:I'm like, you know, immediately I'm like, this is stupid.

00:59:53Marc:I look stupid.

00:59:54Marc:There's no way.

00:59:55Guest:I still think that.

00:59:57Guest:I'm still like, this is fucking stupid.

00:59:58Guest:But it is somehow funnier than my actual self on stage.

01:00:02Marc:So when do you give it up?

01:00:04Marc:The wigs and the.

01:00:05Guest:I did that show like six months ago.

01:00:08Yeah.

01:00:08Guest:Sometimes I bring out Larry Bird.

01:00:11Guest:You do?

01:00:11Guest:Yeah.

01:00:12Guest:Does anyone know who he is anymore?

01:00:14Guest:I don't know.

01:00:14Guest:Some people are like, who is that?

01:00:16Guest:So I explain it.

01:00:18Marc:And that can't help the bit.

01:00:19Guest:And I say, well, I go like, I'm Larry Bird.

01:00:22Guest:I'm not shy anymore.

01:00:23Guest:And then I just kind of try to recruit five players to my new Celtics team.

01:00:28Guest:Okay.

01:00:29Marc:So it's a crowd work device?

01:00:32Guest:Yeah.

01:00:33Guest:And I mean, it's really fun.

01:00:35Guest:But even the last time I did it, I was just like...

01:00:37Guest:I don't know what that was.

01:00:39Guest:I don't like that.

01:00:42Guest:I was like, I got to put my clothes back on.

01:00:44Marc:It's weird when you grow up in some sort of chaos or emotional void in terms of parents that, you know, there's some part of you that deeply craves that discomfort.

01:00:55Guest:Yeah.

01:00:56Marc:Because it's familiar.

01:00:57Marc:You know, like, oh, this is exactly, I'm a strange person, alienated from most people emotionally.

01:01:04Marc:And let's honor that tonight.

01:01:07Yeah.

01:01:07Guest:And everyone has to watch it.

01:01:09Guest:I do love.

01:01:10Marc:You drag them in.

01:01:11Marc:I do.

01:01:11Marc:To your discomfort.

01:01:12Guest:To my childhood.

01:01:13Guest:Yeah.

01:01:14Guest:Yeah.

01:01:14Guest:There was.

01:01:15Guest:I mean, I love the cringe moment.

01:01:17Guest:Like if somebody is doing comedy and there is that cringe in my stomach is like turning for them.

01:01:21Guest:I fucking love that so much.

01:01:24Guest:It's not that I want so much of that in my act, but I'm like, if I could get one moment where it's like, oh, I don't.

01:01:29Marc:Like, eventually you get to the point, and I know you're there because I think I kind of saw you do it, where, like, you have an idea.

01:01:36Marc:Like, I'm doing this now because I'm trying to, you know, kind of re-groove an hour where I have Post-its and I have things.

01:01:43Marc:And as opposed to, like, structure a joke, I'll have what I think is funny that I have to work with on a Post-it, and I'll just read it.

01:01:50Marc:And a lot of times they'll get laughs, and I'll be like, oh, I'll work on that.

01:01:53Marc:But sometimes I'll read it and nothing.

01:01:57Marc:And I'm like, all right, well...

01:02:00Marc:That one's, I guess, not going to go in.

01:02:02Marc:So you get adept enough to when something tanks like that, that you can bounce back with some humility and just be like, hey, look, not all of these are going to go.

01:02:14Guest:I feel like that's something I've always had on stage is being able to bounce back because so many of my jokes would not go.

01:02:21Guest:And so at least I was funny in the like, well, that didn't work.

01:02:24Guest:I learned that pretty quick.

01:02:26Guest:Most of my act was like, so that one also didn't work.

01:02:30Marc:Well, that's actually a great character.

01:02:32Marc:Like, I don't know why someone, I'm sure someone has tried that, where you just have these mediocre to lame jokes.

01:02:39Marc:And as the arc of the set goes, you get more frustrated.

01:02:44Marc:God damn it.

01:02:46Marc:What the fuck is wrong with me?

01:02:48Marc:Why do I even do this?

01:02:50Marc:And you're getting the laugh from that guy responding to- This is the last one.

01:02:53Guest:This is the last one.

01:02:54Guest:I'm out of here.

01:02:57Marc:Oh, God.

01:02:58Marc:So when do you start featuring?

01:03:02Marc:How do you get to the point where- Which clubs in- You work in Zany's eventually and that kind of shit?

01:03:07Guest:Yeah, I was doing all those popping around, but then I left Chicago before I even did anything.

01:03:11Guest:I mean, I wasn't like a big fish.

01:03:13Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:15Marc:But you were doing real sets.

01:03:16Guest:Yeah, I was doing real sex.

01:03:17Guest:And then I moved to here, moved to L.A.

01:03:23Guest:And then I started, a few years in, I started to go on the road with Jeselnik.

01:03:28Marc:Okay.

01:03:28Guest:And then kept getting like opening gigs like that, like theater tours.

01:03:32Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:34Marc:So you're solid.

01:03:35Guest:And I love, it's the best job in the world.

01:03:37Guest:Like I'd rather, like I was, yeah, I've been featuring like this whole last year on a theater tour.

01:03:43Guest:And I'm like, I love it with Brett Goldstein.

01:03:45Marc:Oh, okay.

01:03:46Marc:That's a good one.

01:03:46Marc:For 14 months.

01:03:47Marc:Well, then at least you know you have an attentive, sophisticated audience with him, certainly.

01:03:53Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:03:53Guest:I mean, all of those audiences were really different, and they were all amazing to navigate.

01:04:00Guest:Yeah.

01:04:01Guest:You know, Anthony used to just say it was so funny because like I bombed once or twice, like definitely in London.

01:04:08Marc:With Jeselnik?

01:04:08Marc:Oh, you went to London with Jeselnik?

01:04:10Guest:Yeah.

01:04:10Guest:And I bombed and he was like, I was like, God, I'm sorry.

01:04:13Guest:It was so bad.

01:04:14Guest:He was like, I don't care.

01:04:16Guest:It doesn't matter.

01:04:17Guest:He's like, I'm going to kill anyway.

01:04:19Guest:And I'm like, that's actually really helpful for me.

01:04:24Marc:No sympathy for your plight because it's my show.

01:04:28Marc:Yeah.

01:04:29Guest:He's like, it doesn't matter if you do good or bad.

01:04:30Guest:I'm like, that's actually really helpful for me.

01:04:33Marc:But did he say it at least in a caring way?

01:04:37Guest:I'm sure he felt empathy when I came off with, you know, my tail between my legs.

01:04:43Marc:Yeah.

01:04:43Marc:Well, I think he had to have been a guy that bombed his fair share trying to put that thing together.

01:04:48Guest:Right.

01:04:48Marc:Back in the day.

01:04:49Guest:Yeah.

01:04:49Marc:I didn't see him early on.

01:04:51Marc:But, you know, you've got to figure that particular angle out.

01:04:54Guest:Oh, yeah, that's rough.

01:04:55Guest:That's hard.

01:04:57Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:58Marc:So you bombed with Jeselnik.

01:05:00Guest:Yeah, I did a few bombs.

01:05:02Guest:Like, most of them were good.

01:05:04Guest:But there were, you know, each tour would be like two or three shows.

01:05:07Marc:Well, his audience is weird because, you know, they don't really know him or what he is.

01:05:12Marc:But they know that, you know, in terms of being a person, like you would know him or I would know him.

01:05:17Marc:But they know the character and they have expectations.

01:05:19Marc:And the expectations are like, this is going to be fucked up.

01:05:22Yeah.

01:05:22Guest:Yeah.

01:05:23Guest:And then, and then I come on and I'm like, so I'm a lesbian, you know what I mean?

01:05:27Guest:And it's like, who is, who is this?

01:05:30Guest:But they were, they were very nice.

01:05:32Guest:Like when we were on our, like we went, we went on a European tour and stuff and we did America and I was like, we, we had so much fun and, and his audience was so good to me.

01:05:42Guest:Yeah.

01:05:43Guest:And it was definitely harder.

01:05:44Guest:Like it was a hard audience, but in a good way where like they were, I only had a few shows that were like, sorry.

01:05:50Marc:Yeah.

01:05:51Marc:Right.

01:05:51Marc:Well, I mean, a lot of times they're just not focused or sometimes when you're opening, they're still seating.

01:05:56Marc:Right.

01:05:57Marc:And, you know, it's just, it's the nature of that position.

01:06:00Guest:But it's the best, I think it's the best gig in comedy.

01:06:02Guest:I know a lot of people like, no, go do.

01:06:03Marc:To open for theater act?

01:06:04Guest:Yeah, because it's like, you don't have to get anybody out.

01:06:07Guest:You're staying in nice hotels.

01:06:08Guest:You're eating good.

01:06:09Marc:It's all just about the job.

01:06:11Guest:Yeah.

01:06:12Marc:And you have, you're set up just perfectly.

01:06:14Guest:And they feel like you're a treat and they're like, oh, that's great.

01:06:17Guest:Like there's this person, yeah, going for 15 minutes, 20 minutes.

01:06:21Marc:Right, exactly.

01:06:22Marc:And they're there for a reason.

01:06:23Marc:They didn't just wander in.

01:06:24Marc:It's not a free ticket.

01:06:25Marc:Right.

01:06:26Marc:And, you know, they're, you know, okay, they know that you'll be done soon if they don't like you.

01:06:31Marc:Right, yeah.

01:06:32Marc:And they're going to see the person they came to see.

01:06:34Marc:Oh, boy.

01:06:36Marc:So when do you meet your wife?

01:06:38Guest:We met in 2014.

01:06:41Guest:Oh, it's been a while.

01:06:44Guest:We met at a bowling alley at this event called Les Bowl.

01:06:48Marc:I was going to say, how is that?

01:06:50Marc:I'm glad it was a specific event.

01:06:52Marc:And it's sort of like, is a lesbian the best of bowling thing?

01:06:55Marc:Yeah, we moved from softball to bowling.

01:07:00Marc:It was like a rotator cuff sort of thing.

01:07:01Marc:We're like, we got to go under him.

01:07:03Marc:Yeah, our shoulders are hurt.

01:07:04Marc:Yeah.

01:07:06Marc:Yeah.

01:07:07Marc:I remember field hockey somehow being a sport.

01:07:11Guest:I remember calling it dyke hockey when I was completely in the closet.

01:07:16Yeah.

01:07:16Marc:Yeah, I just, okay, so you meet her.

01:07:19Marc:What does she do?

01:07:20Guest:She is a writer.

01:07:21Guest:She writes, she started as a performer, like improv sketch.

01:07:26Guest:I didn't know her when she was a performer.

01:07:28Guest:And she's a writer.

01:07:29Guest:She does like kids, kids TV, kids movies, kids musicals.

01:07:33Marc:Oh, really?

01:07:33Guest:That sort of thing.

01:07:34Guest:Yeah.

01:07:35Marc:Who's that?

01:07:36Marc:What's her name?

01:07:37Guest:Oh, Samantha Martin.

01:07:38Marc:Oh, who did I talk to that was started in kids stuff?

01:07:42Marc:Oh, Robbie.

01:07:43Robbie.

01:07:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:07:44Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:45Marc:Robbie Hoffman?

01:07:45Marc:Yeah.

01:07:46Guest:Yeah.

01:07:47Marc:Like she was like big, like that was her big thing is that kids show in Canada.

01:07:52Guest:I mean, a lot of people I know that work in kids TV, Sam too.

01:07:55Guest:It's like she's never stopped working where all of us have all these years of gaps of shows we've been on or whatever.

01:08:02Marc:Yeah, I think that kids expect less.

01:08:04Marc:Yeah.

01:08:05Marc:Yeah.

01:08:06Guest:I could use some of that.

01:08:07Marc:Yeah.

01:08:08Guest:Low expectations.

01:08:09Marc:Sure.

01:08:09Marc:Like if it works for the kids, they're like, let's do it for a decade.

01:08:12Guest:Yeah.

01:08:13Marc:I mean, they're not going to be like, I don't know, this character arc.

01:08:16Guest:Right.

01:08:17Marc:They really jumped the shark on that last puppet thing.

01:08:21Guest:You want the same thing over and over.

01:08:23Marc:Because there's always a new generation of kids.

01:08:26Guest:Yeah.

01:08:26Marc:Yeah.

01:08:27Marc:Well, that's exciting.

01:08:29Marc:And how long before you got married?

01:08:32Guest:A few years, maybe two or three years.

01:08:35Marc:Yeah.

01:08:35Guest:Yeah.

01:08:36Guest:And then we got married at her parents' house.

01:08:38Marc:In houses, yeah.

01:08:40Guest:And yeah, and we've been together forever now, 10 years.

01:08:43Marc:And it's good?

01:08:44Marc:You work it out?

01:08:44Guest:Yeah, it's actually, it is good.

01:08:46Guest:We had a kid and, you know, there were some rough years in COVID for both of us just having to be on top of each other.

01:08:55Guest:But I feel like we made it out somehow.

01:08:57Marc:Yeah.

01:08:58Marc:Yeah.

01:08:58Marc:Well, it's either going to bring you closer or destroy it eventually.

01:09:00Guest:Yeah.

01:09:01Guest:We'll see if we survive the fire.

01:09:02Guest:Like every few years, LA gives us something.

01:09:05Marc:Well, yeah, but when you're locked in, you know, you got to figure it out.

01:09:09Marc:And you had the kid during COVID.

01:09:11Marc:How old's the kid?

01:09:11Guest:She was five months old when COVID hit.

01:09:14Guest:Oh, my God.

01:09:14Guest:And I just went back.

01:09:15Guest:I was working on Anthony's show, Good Talk.

01:09:18Guest:And we were there for maybe a week.

01:09:20Guest:You wrote on that?

01:09:21Guest:Yeah.

01:09:22Yeah.

01:09:22Guest:And I was like, I'm out.

01:09:23Guest:I'm going to get a gym membership.

01:09:25Marc:Yeah.

01:09:25Guest:You know, I'm back because I had the baby.

01:09:27Guest:So I'm like, okay.

01:09:28Guest:You had it?

01:09:29Guest:Yeah.

01:09:29Guest:I'm like, I'm going to get my body back and stuff.

01:09:31Guest:And no, shut down.

01:09:33Marc:Really?

01:09:33Guest:Yeah.

01:09:34Marc:How was that experience?

01:09:36Marc:Having the baby?

01:09:37Guest:It was really wild.

01:09:38Guest:It was really difficult for me because it's not my identity to be pregnant.

01:09:43Guest:Like I didn't do that thing where I was like always rubbing the belly or something like so nurturing.

01:09:48Yeah.

01:09:48Guest:And, you know, when photos, women go like this when they're, you know, they cup the top.

01:09:53Guest:Just so you know, I'm pregnant.

01:09:54Marc:You know, that sort of thing.

01:09:55Guest:I was always arms all the way out because I was just like, I don't like that.

01:10:01Marc:I have an alien inside me.

01:10:02Marc:I need it out.

01:10:04Guest:Yeah, it was.

01:10:05Guest:Yeah.

01:10:05Marc:I mean, the decision process on who had it.

01:10:08Guest:So I'm four years older, but also, I mean, I joke that it's because I'm taller, but I do think that it's like, I felt like my body could take it better because her mom is petite and Sam's more petite than I am.

01:10:22Guest:And so I was like, I think actually I can hold this better.

01:10:25Guest:And we got tested and my eye was like more fertile than her.

01:10:30Guest:Yeah.

01:10:31Guest:Which made sense because my family couldn't have kids, like, no problem.

01:10:34Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:10:35Guest:Plenty of kids.

01:10:36Guest:Yeah.

01:10:37Guest:And so, yeah, so I was like, okay, I'll do it.

01:10:39Guest:And then she does a second one.

01:10:41Guest:And I have a joke about this, but it is true that, like, she saw me have the baby and she was like, yeah.

01:10:46Marc:No, this is it.

01:10:47Guest:Yeah.

01:10:47Guest:Because she was like, I'm backing out of the deal, which is funny because when dad see it, they're like, oh, if I could, if I could.

01:10:55Guest:And like she actually did get to see it and had the opportunity to do it.

01:10:57Guest:And she was like, no.

01:10:58Marc:Yeah.

01:10:59Marc:Just I think you talk a bit about that.

01:11:01Guest:Yeah.

01:11:03Marc:Was it a 9-11 joke, I think?

01:11:06Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:11:06Guest:Yeah, because we told our doctor she was supposed to be born on 9-11.

01:11:10Guest:Yeah.

01:11:11Guest:And we really did tell him.

01:11:13Guest:We were like, I want to get this out as soon as possible.

01:11:15Guest:I don't want her to be born on 9-11.

01:11:16Marc:So you were induced or you had cesarean?

01:11:18Guest:I was induced.

01:11:18Marc:Yeah.

01:11:19Guest:And he did.

01:11:20Guest:He was like, let's do this.

01:11:21Marc:Yeah, let's get it out of there.

01:11:23Marc:So the kid's how old now?

01:11:24Guest:She's five.

01:11:25Marc:Oh, and it's good?

01:11:26Yeah.

01:11:26Guest:Yeah, she's great.

01:11:27Guest:And we are.

01:11:28Guest:I mean, having one kid is good.

01:11:30Guest:I would feel kind of weird leaving on the road, leaving like a newborn and a five-year-old, you know, it's a lot.

01:11:37Marc:It must have been in some way beneficial that COVID happened in terms of attention to the kid.

01:11:44Marc:You know, as difficult it might have been.

01:11:46Marc:You didn't have to go.

01:11:47Marc:Everyone's totally bonded for three years.

01:11:51Marc:Solid.

01:11:52Marc:Solid.

01:11:52Guest:Yeah.

01:11:53Guest:To be honest, I was like, you're never ready to leave and go back to work.

01:11:56Guest:I wasn't ready.

01:11:57Guest:I mean, mentally, sometimes I was, but I was emotionally, it was hard to be away from her.

01:12:02Marc:And what are you doing?

01:12:04Marc:Like, what's what's on the plate here?

01:12:06Marc:How's that special doing?

01:12:08Marc:What do you got going on?

01:12:10Guest:The special's good.

01:12:11Guest:It has a small audience that's watched it, and now it's on Hulu, so maybe more will watch.

01:12:18Marc:It's called Daddy Jokes?

01:12:20Marc:It's called Dad Jokes.

01:12:21Marc:Dad Jokes, yeah.

01:12:22Guest:Yeah, Daddy Jokes.

01:12:23Marc:And the whole premise is that you were doing Dad Jokes, but you had no relationship with your dad, so you thought you...

01:12:27Marc:Could, you know, either broaden them or make them more honest if you had a relationship with the gun.

01:12:33Guest:Yeah, and get some new ones, yeah.

01:12:34Marc:Yeah, so it was intercut with this documentary of you going to meet your estranged dad.

01:12:39Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:12:40Marc:Yeah.

01:12:41Marc:Now, like, when you think, like, what's, is he, um...

01:12:46Marc:well now?

01:12:47Marc:I mean, is he functioning?

01:12:48Guest:Yeah, he's functioning.

01:12:49Guest:And we were texting a little bit, but then I think he saw the film and was like, he hasn't texted since.

01:12:56Marc:That's it.

01:12:57Guest:So now it's back to normal.

01:12:58Guest:I mean, it doesn't matter to me.

01:12:59Marc:Yeah.

01:13:00Marc:So there's no sort of like, you gotta meet your granddaughter kind of shit?

01:13:03Guest:No.

01:13:04Guest:Yeah.

01:13:05Guest:You know, he's just not a nurturing fella.

01:13:08Marc:Yeah.

01:13:08Guest:Yeah.

01:13:11Guest:I don't think he was ever supposed to have children.

01:13:13Guest:So he had five.

01:13:14Guest:So he had five with my mom.

01:13:16Marc:It's just because she's Catholic.

01:13:18Guest:Yeah.

01:13:19Marc:And there was no other way to go.

01:13:20Marc:There's nothing to do.

01:13:21Marc:Yeah.

01:13:21Marc:Here comes another one.

01:13:22Guest:And she always was like, well, he was so good looking.

01:13:24Guest:He was hot.

01:13:25Guest:And I was like, mom, I don't want to hear about how you were horny.

01:13:28Guest:That's why you made all these mistakes.

01:13:32Marc:Well, how are you with your mom?

01:13:34Guest:Great.

01:13:34Marc:Yeah.

01:13:35Guest:Yeah.

01:13:35Guest:She's no, she's we talk all the time.

01:13:37Marc:And she's got a good relationship with the kid and everything.

01:13:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:13:42Marc:Yeah.

01:13:43Guest:I mean, she loves her kids so much.

01:13:44Marc:She loves all of us.

01:13:45Guest:She thinks all of us can do no wrong.

01:13:47Guest:She's like, every day, she's just like, I just don't understand why you're not on SNL.

01:13:51Guest:Or she'll be like, I saw Fortune with a Netflix special.

01:13:54Guest:How come you don't have a Netflix special?

01:13:57Marc:It's always something.

01:13:58Marc:Yeah.

01:13:59Marc:Your job isn't justified until something on their radar shows them that you've made it.

01:14:05Marc:Yeah.

01:14:06Marc:And meanwhile, most people, no matter whether they have a special or not, are out there pounding the pavement trying to keep the thing going.

01:14:11Marc:Right.

01:14:12Marc:But what is the plan, though?

01:14:13Marc:Are you just touring?

01:14:15Guest:Yeah.

01:14:16Guest:So we ended the tour and I was writing and performing on The Office spinoff this whole last year.

01:14:23Marc:Oh, that's a good gig.

01:14:24Guest:Yeah.

01:14:24Guest:And at the same time, I was touring on the weekends because luckily they still let me keep a lot of those dates.

01:14:30Marc:Now, when's that show come on?

01:14:31Guest:I think it's coming out in the spring.

01:14:33Marc:And how was that experience?

01:14:35Marc:How do you think it was?

01:14:36Marc:Was it funny?

01:14:37Guest:I hope so.

01:14:38Guest:I mean, yeah, I mean, it's a big cast.

01:14:41Guest:It was like super fun.

01:14:43Guest:The writer's room was like really fun.

01:14:46Guest:I met like a ton of great people.

01:14:49Marc:What's the angle of it?

01:14:50Marc:How is it a spinoff?

01:14:51Guest:It's basically the same.

01:14:53Guest:I mean, it's the same tone.

01:14:54Guest:It's like the same.

01:14:55Marc:Yeah.

01:14:55Marc:But is it the same office?

01:14:56Guest:Mm-mm.

01:14:57Guest:No.

01:14:58Guest:It's, like, a different place.

01:14:59Marc:It's not Dunder Mifflin or whatever?

01:15:00Marc:No, no.

01:15:01Guest:It's, like, it's a completely different, just, like, spitting off to a new business.

01:15:06Marc:And it's going to be called The Office?

01:15:07Guest:No, I don't think so.

01:15:08Guest:Like, it's, I don't know if they're going to keep it, but they were reporting that it's going to be called The Paper.

01:15:13Guest:But, I mean, I have no idea if they're going to change it last minute.

01:15:16Marc:So, is it even affiliated development-wise to The Office?

01:15:21Yeah.

01:15:21Marc:No?

01:15:22Marc:It's not the same showrunner or the same?

01:15:24Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:15:25Marc:No, it is.

01:15:25Marc:So it's Greg Daniels.

01:15:26Marc:What's his name again?

01:15:27Marc:Greg Daniels.

01:15:27Marc:Yeah.

01:15:28Guest:And then Michael Komen.

01:15:30Marc:Oh, good.

01:15:30Marc:Well, that's a good gig.

01:15:31Marc:Got your WGA insurance.

01:15:33Guest:It was a lot.

01:15:34Guest:Yeah, it was.

01:15:35Guest:Yeah, it happened.

01:15:36Guest:It's like any job I get that's not stand-up is like the interviews on Friday.

01:15:41Guest:Hey, you start on Monday.

01:15:42Guest:So I was like, whoa.

01:15:43Marc:Well, it's a good loop to be in.

01:15:44Marc:Yeah.

01:15:45Marc:A comedy writer that can do it.

01:15:47Marc:Right.

01:15:47Marc:Well, good.

01:15:48Marc:Congratulations.

01:15:49Guest:Thank you.

01:15:50Marc:Thank you so much.

01:15:51Marc:Great talking to you.

01:15:51Guest:It was so great.

01:15:52Guest:I hope we survive these.

01:15:54Guest:God damn it.

01:15:54Guest:Getting our cars.

01:15:55Marc:God damn it.

01:15:58Marc:I'm literally just sort of like, should I just go to Vegas for three days so I don't have to sit here in the wind?

01:16:03Guest:You go to Palm Springs, Joshua Tree.

01:16:05Marc:I thought of that, but, like, right now, it's flagged right up to Palm Springs.

01:16:10Guest:Oh, God.

01:16:11Guest:Because that's where we went, and it was like, I don't know, it was like this wasn't happening.

01:16:16Marc:Yeah.

01:16:16Guest:Yeah.

01:16:17Marc:There's less to burn, I think, out there, no?

01:16:19Guest:Yeah.

01:16:20Guest:It seems like a lot of rocks.

01:16:21Marc:Yeah, but, like, everyone becomes an amateur meteorologist.

01:16:25Marc:Like, well, the foliage, the vegetation doesn't seem to... All right, well, we'll see what happens.

01:16:29Guest:All right.

01:16:34Marc:There you go.

01:16:35Marc:I like her.

01:16:38Marc:Again, Dad Jokes is streaming on Hulu and her podcast with Beth Stelling is called Sweethearts.

01:16:44Marc:Hang out for a minute.

01:16:47Marc:Okay, folks, if you want more details about what's been going on in my life and in my head during these fires out there, I talked about it for a bonus episode on the full Marin feed this week.

01:16:56Marc:This was always part of the agreement you make with living here.

01:17:01Marc:You know, whether it be earthquakes or this, that these Santa Ana winds have been a reality for centuries.

01:17:08Marc:And, you know, this was always a possibility and there was always fires every year all along the California vegetation all the way up north.

01:17:18Marc:You know, I was in San Francisco, you know, decades ago where, you know, Point Reyes and, you know, a big chunk of massive acreage burned.

01:17:28Marc:And I was in Napa the other night and that place burned down a couple of years ago.

01:17:32Marc:And, you know, it's just reality and you can rationalize it however you want.

01:17:36Marc:It's like, yeah, well, the earth does this and sometimes burning's good and yada, yada.

01:17:40Marc:But, you know, the menace of human loss and tragic loss of property and, you know...

01:17:53Marc:possessions, it's a reality on a major scale.

01:17:58Marc:To get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Merrim by going to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

01:18:07Marc:And a reminder, before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

01:18:12Marc:Here's some guitar I enjoyed.

01:18:49Thank you.

01:19:20guitar solo

01:19:59Thank you.

01:20:31Thank you.

01:20:59Marc:Boomer lives.

01:21:09Marc:Monkey and La Fonda.

01:21:10Marc:Cat angels everywhere.