Episode 1593 - Rosemarie DeWitt

Episode 1593 • Released November 21, 2024 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it again if you're new here welcome does that still happen i think it must i'm still a discoverable person

00:00:26Marc:You can still discover Marc Maron.

00:00:28Marc:I'm very, in a lot of ways, undiscovered.

00:00:32Marc:I'm learning that.

00:00:33Marc:Today on the show, Rosemary DeWitt is here.

00:00:36Marc:She's an actress.

00:00:37Marc:She's been in a lot of stuff.

00:00:39Marc:I'm sure you know her.

00:00:41Marc:She's been in things like Rachel Getting Married, Mad Men, The Boys, La La Land.

00:00:47Marc:She's also married to that guy Ron Livingston, who can be very funny.

00:00:50Marc:And I mention that only because we talk about him a bit.

00:00:53Marc:She also worked with my late partner, Lynn Shelton, on the movies Your Sister, Sister and Touchy Feely, as well as the series Little Fires Everywhere.

00:01:04Marc:So we begin this this conversation with a bit of grief.

00:01:09Marc:And I tell you, man, it's interesting how that stuff works, how you can draw right back in.

00:01:15Marc:It's just like a sort of ongoing stream of sadness and loss that exists.

00:01:22Marc:And I'm very kind of—I'm not baffled by it, and I'm happy it's still—

00:01:29Marc:In me, obviously, but last week or two, I've told stories that involved her and it just comes right up.

00:01:36Marc:It comes right up from the guts through my heart into my throat and into my eyes and into my mind.

00:01:45Marc:And but I don't have to stay there, but it comes.

00:01:49Marc:So there's a little of that.

00:01:51Marc:So if I guess this is kind of a trigger warning, if you don't want to experience maybe a hint of deep feelings of loss, maybe check out now or maybe come on board.

00:02:03Marc:Join the human race, you fuckers.

00:02:06Marc:Another thing I want to throw out there, my old buddy Greg Proops has a new stand-up album out.

00:02:10Marc:It's called Purple Shasta Raccoon, and it's out now from a Special Things Records.

00:02:16Marc:Greg recorded this at the Punchline in San Francisco on New Year's Eve.

00:02:19Marc:Man, that's our old stomping grounds, me and Greggies.

00:02:22Marc:You can get it at astrecords.com or stream it on your preferred music app.

00:02:27Marc:Greg Proops.

00:02:30Marc:He's the guy.

00:02:31Marc:What's the moment with Proops that stands out in the life lessons?

00:02:35Marc:Oh, yes, I remember.

00:02:36Marc:I've told the story before.

00:02:38Marc:I probably told it to him.

00:02:40Marc:One morning when we were doing a live 105 Alex Bennett broadcast from Cobb's Comedy Club down in the cannery, it was six in the morning.

00:02:49Marc:So why not smoke the pot that Greg has?

00:02:51Marc:Greg, the daily smoker.

00:02:52Marc:This is before you could get it legally.

00:02:54Marc:Greg, who got the best weed down from Humboldt or wherever, hydroponic, super stuff.

00:03:01Marc:Back in the day before there were strains and strands, there was only maybe three strains and strands, but he always had the devastating weed.

00:03:08Marc:And he's like, you want to smoke?

00:03:10Marc:And I'm like, yeah, of course.

00:03:12Marc:It's six in the morning.

00:03:13Marc:Let's smoke.

00:03:14Marc:And I smoked it.

00:03:16Marc:And I got very high very quickly.

00:03:18Marc:And Greg said to me, I invented you.

00:03:21Marc:And I don't know what that meant, but it did fuck up my performance that morning.

00:03:26Marc:I was just there in a not a vegetative state.

00:03:29Marc:I'd say paralyzing, insecure state of existential crisis on stage with an audience of about 20 to 25 at 630 in the morning at Cobb's Comedy Club.

00:03:44Marc:I invented you.

00:03:46Marc:It's a good thing to say to a guy that's really high and a little shaky.

00:03:49Marc:I'm back at Largo here in L.A.

00:03:51Marc:on Friday, December 13th, I believe.

00:03:54Marc:That is going to be a music and comedy show.

00:03:57Marc:Then starting in January, I'm back on tour, Sacramento, California.

00:04:01Marc:I'll be at the Crest Theater on Friday, January 10th.

00:04:04Marc:Napa, California at the Uptown Theater on Saturday, January 11th.

00:04:08Marc:I'm in Fort Collins, Colorado at Lincoln Center Performance Hall on Friday, January 17th.

00:04:14Marc:Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on Saturday, January 18th.

00:04:17Marc:Santa Barbara, California at the Libero Theater on Thursday, January 30th.

00:04:22Marc:San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st.

00:04:27Marc:And Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on Saturday, February 1st.

00:04:31Marc:Go to WTFPod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets.

00:04:36Marc:A lot of other cities there.

00:04:38Marc:The South, the East, the Middle.

00:04:41Marc:I'm coming to a few places.

00:04:42Marc:You might have to travel a bit because I don't do...

00:04:45Marc:I stay to the big cities for the most part.

00:04:47Marc:Also, this is the final call for Ask Mark Anything questions.

00:04:52Marc:Go to the link in the episode description to submit a question for our full Marin bonus episode that will air next week.

00:05:01Marc:And also, by the way, if you're keeping up, I think I bought the wrong vacuum.

00:05:06Marc:Yeah, the one I ended up with outside of the broken one and the broom style one out here now, the one that I did buy new, I don't think it was the right one.

00:05:14Marc:I think I wanted the animal, too, and I think I just got the animal.

00:05:17Marc:But I'm going to have to accept that because I'm done with this.

00:05:20Marc:I'm done with the vacuum shit.

00:05:22Marc:And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you have to go back.

00:05:25Marc:Get on board.

00:05:26Marc:I've tried to talk about this on stage, but it doesn't seem to land as well as it did here in the garage when I'm just talking to you.

00:05:32Marc:Anyway.

00:05:35Marc:I've been wanting to.

00:05:36Marc:I've been planning on.

00:05:38Marc:I've been thinking about just a massive closet purge.

00:05:44Marc:You know, I've got a lot of fucking clothes from a lot of years.

00:05:49Marc:And most of the clothes that I had in my closet were clothes I actually got from the wardrobe department when I shot my TV show Marin.

00:05:57Marc:And when the hell was that?

00:05:59Marc:Ten years ago?

00:05:59Marc:Yeah.

00:06:00Marc:And I realized one morning looking into that closet and seeing no less than 50 plaid Western shirts of one kind or another that I'm just, I'm not, I'm out of the plaid thing.

00:06:14Marc:I'm not a plaid guy anymore.

00:06:16Marc:I don't even know why I was for a brief period of time, but, but I was, I was kind of a plaid guy and I'm done with it.

00:06:24Marc:And I was like, dude, just get rid of all of that shit.

00:06:28Marc:So I,

00:06:30Marc:I don't know if you've done that, where you live a life and you hold on to things.

00:06:35Marc:I hold on to fucking everything, man.

00:06:37Marc:I mean, I've gotten better at throwing stuff out, especially stuff that just comes through, sent to me or whatever.

00:06:43Marc:I just move it along.

00:06:45Marc:But I just would look at all those shirts and I was so happy I had a house with a closet that could hold all those shirts.

00:06:50Marc:And and I just would see them be like, yeah, look at all my shirts.

00:06:54Marc:But that was the end of it.

00:06:56Marc:I wasn't wearing any of the shirts.

00:06:57Marc:I would try them on occasionally and think like, yeah, I don't think I want to wear this shirt anymore.

00:07:01Marc:And finally, I'm like, fuck it.

00:07:04Marc:Fuck it.

00:07:06Marc:I got a closet full of ghosts.

00:07:09Marc:Just a bunch of ghosts.

00:07:10Marc:Ghost shoes, ghost shirts, ghost jackets.

00:07:13Marc:That guy's not me anymore.

00:07:15Marc:That guy was me a while back.

00:07:17Marc:But that's a ghost of me now.

00:07:19Marc:All those shirts are dead.

00:07:20Marc:They represent nothing.

00:07:22Marc:Why are you holding on to them?

00:07:24Marc:So I made the pile, man.

00:07:25Marc:I went through all of it.

00:07:26Marc:My closet's like half empty.

00:07:28Marc:Some jackets, a lot of shirts.

00:07:29Marc:I haven't done the shoes yet.

00:07:31Marc:But I'm getting rid of all the...

00:07:34Marc:What's the word I want?

00:07:36Marc:The accoutrement of that guy who I was.

00:07:41Marc:Look, I'm not saying I'm a different guy, but you kind of are a different guy.

00:07:44Marc:You get older and you're like, let's simplify it.

00:07:46Marc:Why confuse with plaid maybe in the summertime?

00:07:50Marc:Maybe in the summertime you wear a plaid short sleeve, but there's no reason to kind of like get all that activity on your shirt.

00:07:59Marc:Go with the solids, man.

00:08:01Marc:Do like a flannel or a long sleeve solid shirt, maybe a t-shirt underneath that's also a single color.

00:08:07Marc:Occasionally I'll commit to a logo or two.

00:08:10Marc:I go through different periods, which is why...

00:08:14Marc:We hang on to shit.

00:08:16Marc:It's a very, it's a, it's an odd thing.

00:08:18Marc:So I've made the piles and I've only gone back to the pile.

00:08:21Marc:I went, I made the pile of shirts and then I went through it and I pulled two out of it.

00:08:26Marc:And then, and then I went back and then I put, put those two back on the pile.

00:08:31Marc:It's a con, it's very hard to let go of who you were.

00:08:34Marc:It's very hard to get older and see, you know, all that stuff left over from a time when you were a younger person.

00:08:42Marc:And sometimes you think, well, it's nostalgic.

00:08:44Marc:What does that even fucking mean anymore?

00:08:46Marc:Seriously, it's just going to end up garbage.

00:08:51Marc:Holy shit.

00:08:51Marc:Where do I get to the books?

00:08:53Marc:It's just, and I've talked about this before, but not about clothes.

00:08:56Marc:They just lose their meaning.

00:08:58Marc:They're literally just shells of something you were.

00:09:01Marc:So I've made the piles.

00:09:03Marc:And of course, when I'm going through it, I've been carrying around this giant, weird carcass of a fucking jacket.

00:09:09Marc:I think it's horse hide.

00:09:11Marc:I think I bought it at Century 21 in New York City, like maybe in 2000.

00:09:16Marc:No, earlier in the 90s.

00:09:19Marc:But it's just this massive piece of hide.

00:09:22Marc:And I didn't wear it that often because it's a heavy fucking piece of business.

00:09:27Marc:But I put that on.

00:09:28Marc:I'm like, man, keeping this.

00:09:30Marc:I'm keeping this.

00:09:32Marc:I swear to God, it's like armor, but I got big plans for it.

00:09:36Marc:I'm going to shorten the sleeves and get new buttons and I'll wear it twice in the next five or six years, but I'm keeping that one.

00:09:45Marc:There are a couple of things I kept that are nostalgic.

00:09:48Uh,

00:09:48Marc:A couple of shirts.

00:09:49Marc:The shirt that I bought in Ireland when me and Lynn went.

00:09:53Marc:The shirt and vest that I bought for my special end times fun that I've worn never again.

00:10:00Marc:I should just get rid of that, honestly.

00:10:03Marc:I do have the shirt I wore on my first HBO half hour Western shirt.

00:10:07Marc:But then it comes down to this, like...

00:10:09Marc:I'm no big star, but I got a specific taste.

00:10:11Marc:And I don't even know if people want that shit anymore.

00:10:13Marc:I've got all these old like Pendleton wool shirts.

00:10:17Marc:Some of them get the moths got to.

00:10:20Marc:But but I got quite a few of those.

00:10:22Marc:I think I'll give them to a friend.

00:10:24Marc:But there's part of me that thinks like, dude, why don't you just sell the whole Marin collection on eBay and give the proceedings to charity?

00:10:33Marc:Because then I'd have to figure out how to put them on eBay or wherever people sell that shit.

00:10:37Marc:Buy the whole collection of Marc Maron's plaid self in one box.

00:10:44Marc:I don't fucking know if anybody wants that shit.

00:10:48Marc:But I do think I'll probably go with the goodwill, the stuff that I don't give to people that want it.

00:10:53Marc:Go with the goodwill angle because then it's like people can find it.

00:10:57Marc:And I just I don't know why that's part of this ego extension of like, yeah, these are top notch plaid Western shirts.

00:11:06Marc:I mean, there's there's always a market for these top notch plaid Western shirts.

00:11:14Marc:I'm out of my fucking mind, man.

00:11:16Marc:I am too self-important sometimes.

00:11:18Marc:It annoys me.

00:11:20Marc:It annoys me.

00:11:22Marc:So Rosemary DeWitt is a lovely person.

00:11:27Marc:She's in the new family film, Out of My Mind, which premieres tomorrow, November 22nd on Disney+.

00:11:34Marc:She's also in Smile 2, which is still in theaters and on digital on-demand platforms.

00:11:40Marc:And again, we talk about her husband, Ron Livingston, a lot, and I just call him Ron.

00:11:45Marc:So now you know.

00:11:46Marc:It's Ron Livingston from Office Space.

00:11:50Marc:And also...

00:11:51Marc:He did one of the best jobs playing an agent in adaptation, Spike Jonze adaptation.

00:11:59Marc:Just the best.

00:12:01Marc:But Rosemary's amazing.

00:12:04Marc:And this is her and I, yeah, I think really chatting for the first time.

00:12:22Marc:It's nice to see you.

00:12:23Guest:It's good to see you.

00:12:24Marc:Yeah.

00:12:26Marc:I don't want to get too sad.

00:12:29Guest:I know.

00:12:29Guest:Let's not get too sad too quick.

00:12:32Guest:I feel sad.

00:12:34Marc:Why?

00:12:34Marc:Because of me and because what hangs over us between us?

00:12:38Marc:Yeah.

00:12:40Marc:Yes.

00:12:40Marc:But you know what?

00:12:42Marc:On that note, on the Lynn Shelton note, which we can talk about.

00:12:48Marc:I have it in my mind to, you know, give you this jacket if it fits you.

00:12:56Guest:Oh, stop.

00:12:57Marc:Yeah.

00:12:57Yeah.

00:12:58Guest:Mark, you're going to make me cry like 10 seconds in.

00:13:03Marc:Well, I don't know.

00:13:05Marc:You know, I don't you know, I have stuff, you know, I have some stuff and, you know, I have stuff that I have to look at.

00:13:12Marc:Yeah.

00:13:13Marc:And but like this jacket is it's very specific.

00:13:17Marc:You might recognize it.

00:13:21Marc:But, you know, I just have it, and I think you should have it if it fits you.

00:13:25Guest:I'll wear it.

00:13:26Marc:Okay, let's see if it fits after.

00:13:27Guest:Okay, let's see.

00:13:28Guest:I hope so.

00:13:28Guest:Let's see, yeah.

00:13:29Marc:Yeah, I mean, I can't remember when we met, actually.

00:13:32Marc:Where was it for the first time, or the only time, maybe?

00:13:35Marc:Do you remember?

00:13:37Marc:Mm-mm.

00:13:37Marc:Did we talk after Lynn passed away?

00:13:39Guest:I think we, like, shared some Zoom memorial.

00:13:42Guest:Yeah, and then...

00:13:45Guest:Yeah, I more remember, I did Little Fires Everywhere with her when she started telling folks that you guys were doing.

00:13:52Guest:So I just remember her kind of pulling me into her, you know, the sad kind of production office with those temporary ones and shutting the door and like locking it and being like, I have to tell you something.

00:14:02Marc:Oh, really?

00:14:02Guest:Yeah.

00:14:03Marc:It was an exciting thing?

00:14:04Marc:It was exciting.

00:14:06Marc:Yeah, I think that she loved you very much.

00:14:11Guest:I loved her so, so.

00:14:13Guest:It's funny.

00:14:13Guest:I was on the way over here.

00:14:14Guest:Yeah.

00:14:15Guest:Of course, I was thinking about her.

00:14:16Marc:Yeah.

00:14:17Guest:And I was thinking about, like, the way we know some people.

00:14:20Guest:And some people, we just know their souls.

00:14:22Guest:Right.

00:14:23Guest:Like, it's not like you spend Thanksgiving together.

00:14:25Guest:Right.

00:14:25Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:26Guest:Just your soul knows their soul.

00:14:28Guest:Yeah.

00:14:28Guest:And that's just how I felt about her.

00:14:29Guest:And that's so few people.

00:14:31Marc:Yeah.

00:14:31Guest:In the world.

00:14:32Marc:Yeah.

00:14:33Guest:So.

00:14:33Marc:Well, I mean, I think that in our business, too.

00:14:37Yeah.

00:14:37Marc:You know, you don't always get an opportunity to stay close with people, but the work is so intense.

00:14:44Marc:Yeah.

00:14:44Marc:But she was like, you know, I don't know.

00:14:46Marc:It was so much to get through, and it never goes away.

00:14:52Marc:And they're kind of doing, some guy's doing a doc about me, and he's like asking for all this stuff of us, you know, the little things I have.

00:15:00Marc:And then just having to see her.

00:15:01Marc:I don't know where you go with a conversation like this, aside from we're going to be like, I don't know.

00:15:06Yeah.

00:15:07Marc:But I think that like it seems that, you know, the work you did with her, you know, with the first one was your sister's sister.

00:15:21Marc:And and I think you were kind of playing the her part.

00:15:26Guest:Well, it's funny you said that because I remember saying to her after that, I want to play you in a movie.

00:15:32Guest:And then she wrote Touchy Feely.

00:15:34Guest:And then I thought I was playing her then.

00:15:37Guest:But in that one, I think I kind of almost was more because she was so protective of it.

00:15:42Guest:We kind of didn't know what movie we were making.

00:15:44Guest:Like Ron and I did a scene together.

00:15:46Guest:My husband, Ron Livingston.

00:15:47Marc:In your sister's sister.

00:15:48Guest:In the second one.

00:15:48Guest:Oh, in Touchy Feely.

00:15:50Guest:And I remember us both going like...

00:15:52Guest:I don't know what this scene's about.

00:15:53Guest:And Ron's like, I don't really.

00:15:54Guest:And he's like, and I don't think Lynn wants to tell us.

00:15:56Guest:And we're like, great.

00:15:58Guest:But I loved her so much and I trusted her so deeply and I would feel like I would do some of my best work always in her presence and in her loving care that I didn't care.

00:16:08Guest:Like your sister's sister, I remember.

00:16:10Guest:And we had that big sort of big three-way fight and we only had two cameras and we did Mark and Emily's coverage first.

00:16:19Guest:And I was like, I don't know what's going to happen.

00:16:21Guest:You guys just start yelling at me because I just trusted Lynn.

00:16:24Marc:Well, that was the way she worked, right?

00:16:25Marc:It was like improv, like guided improv.

00:16:28Guest:Yeah.

00:16:28Guest:But also you knew that someone was going to make you look good.

00:16:31Guest:You know what I mean?

00:16:33Guest:It wasn't like her ego was going to come out later and then do something weird with the movie that no one intended.

00:16:38Marc:I mean, she so deeply cared about actors.

00:16:41Marc:It was her whole thing.

00:16:43Marc:You know, she'd just sit there and... I don't know what you can talk about.

00:16:49Marc:I'm sorry.

00:16:49Marc:No, no, I did it.

00:16:50Marc:I did it.

00:16:54Marc:But, like, you know, for her...

00:16:57Marc:It just seemed like the actors and whatever happened between the actors was paramount.

00:17:02Marc:There wasn't, you know, it wasn't about, like, the set, really.

00:17:06Marc:It was really about, like, and she just knew when you hit that place.

00:17:12Marc:Yeah.

00:17:12Marc:And it was kind of always a relatively quiet place and an under-acted place.

00:17:18Marc:Yeah.

00:17:18Marc:And you didn't, like, because, you know, we were together, but, like, when she'd give me direction, because we were together, I'd be like, no, fuck that.

00:17:27Marc:No.

00:17:29Marc:And, like, I'd turn into a child.

00:17:31Guest:Yeah.

00:17:32Marc:And then eventually I'd kind of relent and then do it the way she wanted.

00:17:36Marc:She'd go, like, it's better, right?

00:17:37Marc:I'm like, no.

00:17:38Marc:I don't know.

00:17:40Marc:It's also tragic.

00:17:43Marc:We don't need to keep talking about death.

00:17:46Guest:I mean, well, we're also at that age now where you go through and you're like, oh, wow, that person.

00:17:51Guest:I was in New York last week and I ran into an actor that I kind of came up with like 20 years ago.

00:17:56Guest:And we were naming people and we're like, wow, all those people are gone.

00:18:00Guest:But we're not old.

00:18:01Marc:It just starts and it kind of comes in waves.

00:18:06Marc:I have big theories about it.

00:18:08Marc:There's these chunks of time where if you live through them, you're good.

00:18:12Marc:But then there's these other chunks of time where it seems like people go in these few years and then if you can get past those, you're good.

00:18:18Guest:Yeah.

00:18:19Guest:Well, and then you're the only one.

00:18:20Guest:I know.

00:18:21Guest:Like my dad died last year at 90 and he was like, I'm it.

00:18:24Guest:I'm the only one left.

00:18:25Guest:You know, he's like, there's no one even to.

00:18:27Marc:Well, how'd he go?

00:18:28Marc:I mean, was he all there?

00:18:30Marc:He was.

00:18:31Guest:Well, that's great.

00:18:32Guest:Oh, no, it was great.

00:18:33Guest:And he was like, he went.

00:18:34Guest:He's 90.

00:18:35Guest:Yeah.

00:18:35Guest:He was healthy until the end.

00:18:37Guest:You know, he was he was a what do you call it?

00:18:40Guest:You know, a really stubborn motherfucker, you know, so he wouldn't get the walker.

00:18:43Guest:You know, he went out in a blaze of glory with all the broken bones that one can have at that age.

00:18:48Guest:He wouldn't do the walking.

00:18:49Guest:But he ran that body right into the ground.

00:18:51Guest:Yeah?

00:18:52Marc:Yeah.

00:18:52Marc:Tough guy?

00:18:52Guest:Tough.

00:18:53Guest:Marine Corps, 30 years.

00:18:54Guest:Yeah, tough.

00:18:55Guest:Really?

00:18:55Guest:Tough.

00:18:55Guest:Yeah.

00:18:56Marc:Oh, my God.

00:18:57Marc:You grew up with a Marine?

00:18:58Guest:Yeah, like the Great Santini.

00:19:00Marc:No, not that bad.

00:19:01Guest:No, I mean, it depends.

00:19:03Guest:I was his ninth child, so I don't— Nine children!

00:19:06Guest:I mean, not with my mom.

00:19:08Guest:He had eight with his first wife, Dorothy.

00:19:10Guest:Eight?

00:19:11Guest:Eight.

00:19:11Guest:Catholic, you know.

00:19:13Guest:Yeah.

00:19:13Guest:Irish.

00:19:14Guest:He was Irish Catholic.

00:19:15Guest:Yeah.

00:19:17Guest:And then me.

00:19:17Guest:So I think maybe they had more of that guy.

00:19:21Guest:And then I had a subtler guy.

00:19:24Marc:Yeah.

00:19:25Marc:A little tired?

00:19:26Guest:A little.

00:19:27Guest:Not that.

00:19:27Marc:How many siblings do you have with him?

00:19:30Guest:It was just me with him and my mom, and then I had eight half-brothers and sisters.

00:19:34Marc:So you were like a vacation.

00:19:36Guest:Yeah, I don't know what I, yeah.

00:19:38Guest:Disneyland.

00:19:38Guest:Oh, my God.

00:19:38Guest:Yeah.

00:19:39Marc:And do you have a relationship with all those other ones?

00:19:41Guest:Yeah, I mean, to different degrees.

00:19:44Guest:Yeah.

00:19:44Guest:You know, I remember a million years, like one of the first movies I ever did was Rachel Getting Married, and it was all about family.

00:19:50Guest:It's a good movie.

00:19:51Guest:It's a good movie.

00:19:51Guest:And I started, I did press kind of for the first time.

00:19:54Guest:And I remember I just couldn't answer any questions about family because I could never figure my own family out.

00:20:01Guest:You know, it was like about a sibling relationship.

00:20:03Guest:And I just gave the most neutral, boring answers because I'm like, I can't speak to this because I don't understand.

00:20:10Guest:It's complicated.

00:20:11Guest:How old were you then?

00:20:15Guest:I don't know, 30s.

00:20:16Guest:But so how Catholic did you grow up?

00:20:19Guest:Catholic.

00:20:20Marc:And your mom is not Irish.

00:20:23Marc:Yeah, no, she is too.

00:20:24Guest:Full Irish.

00:20:25Guest:Yeah, so I remember, like, even before she passed away, I was young, she wanted to see a priest.

00:20:31Guest:And I was thinking, why?

00:20:32Guest:Like, what have you ever done?

00:20:33Guest:She wanted to make confession.

00:20:35Guest:Yeah.

00:20:35Guest:I mean, before she died.

00:20:36Guest:And I was like, you don't leave the house.

00:20:37Guest:What do you have to confess?

00:20:38Marc:You know, but they were Catholic.

00:20:41Marc:So what do they have to confess?

00:20:42Yeah.

00:20:42Guest:I mean, a laundry.

00:20:44Guest:I don't know.

00:20:45Guest:I shouldn't bash anything.

00:20:46Guest:But I just feel I remember my my husband's mom is a Lutheran.

00:20:51Guest:She's retired now pastor.

00:20:52Guest:That's a different approach.

00:20:53Guest:Totally.

00:20:54Guest:And he didn't understand that my concept of religion was like anything you do is bad.

00:20:59Guest:And even if you go to confession, you still can't be forgiven.

00:21:03Marc:Yeah.

00:21:03Marc:Like you're just screwed.

00:21:05Guest:That's the trick.

00:21:06Guest:Yeah.

00:21:06Marc:Yeah.

00:21:07Marc:So you're just, you're born flawed and you stay flawed.

00:21:10Guest:Forever.

00:21:10Guest:Yeah.

00:21:11Guest:I had a therapist who one time said to me, gosh, I wish you were Jewish.

00:21:13Guest:Our guilt is so much better than yours.

00:21:15Marc:It is because we just have to live with it.

00:21:19Guest:Yeah.

00:21:19Marc:We can't dump it on Jesus.

00:21:20Guest:Right.

00:21:21Marc:You just have to integrate it into your personality.

00:21:24Guest:Yeah.

00:21:24Marc:It's a constant reality check.

00:21:26Guest:Yeah.

00:21:26Marc:You know, ongoing shame about everything.

00:21:28Guest:Yeah.

00:21:29Guest:No, I have that too.

00:21:30Guest:Yeah.

00:21:31Guest:Are you still religious?

00:21:32Guest:No, I just have ongoing shame about everything.

00:21:35Guest:You do?

00:21:36Guest:I mean, I'm working on it.

00:21:37Guest:I think it's alleviating as I get older.

00:21:39Marc:What is it about that, though?

00:21:40Marc:Because I have it, too, and I'm not saying I'm a saint, but there is a point where you're like, why do I keep doing this to myself?

00:21:47Marc:And then some part of you is like, well, this must be your comfort zone.

00:21:51Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:21:52Marc:And it's so fucked up, isn't it?

00:21:54Guest:I know.

00:21:54Guest:Well, I guess we decided early...

00:21:57Guest:point in life what level of a good person we have to be and then we just fail miserably even if yeah you hit all the boxes and hit all the marks it's just never good enough but i mean that's kind of what i like about the voice you put in your head right but i guess that it comes with catholicism but it's for me i didn't have that but i've got a guy in my head that's sort of like yeah not quite

00:22:18Guest:Yeah, they say, like, try to make friends with that guy.

00:22:20Guest:And they'll be like, hey, I'm going to drive the car now, guy.

00:22:24Guest:Sure.

00:22:24Guest:You stay in the backseat.

00:22:25Guest:Right.

00:22:25Marc:But then it's an ongoing discussion.

00:22:28Guest:I know.

00:22:29Guest:With him.

00:22:29Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:22:29Guest:And you're like, why do you get so much airtime?

00:22:32Guest:We need to take that piece of the mic away from him.

00:22:35Marc:Or just talk to more other people.

00:22:37Guest:Yeah.

00:22:38Marc:Get out of yourself.

00:22:39Marc:Yeah.

00:22:39Marc:But wait, so is it true?

00:22:41Marc:Like, you know, I'm not a big research guy, but you're the granddaughter of that boxer?

00:22:48Guest:Yeah.

00:22:48Guest:Yeah, that was my mom's dad.

00:22:51Marc:Was his name Braddock?

00:22:52Marc:Yeah, James J. Braddock.

00:22:54Marc:And that's what they made the movie of?

00:22:55Guest:Yeah.

00:22:56Marc:Cinderella Man.

00:22:58Guest:Yeah, that's what they called him.

00:22:59Guest:That was his kind of moniker because he was a washed up fighter at like...

00:23:03Guest:And then he was like a longshoreman.

00:23:07Guest:And he had three kids.

00:23:10Guest:And then he just started taking fights during the Great Depression to pay the bills.

00:23:13Guest:It wasn't about his unlived life.

00:23:18Guest:It was just they needed to put food on the table.

00:23:20Guest:And he just started winning because he was so hungry and he became the champ.

00:23:24Marc:But did you know this all growing up?

00:23:26Marc:Yeah.

00:23:26Marc:You did?

00:23:27Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:23:27Guest:No, I just found out.

00:23:29Marc:Because you have a part in the movie a bit.

00:23:33Marc:And so was he alive when the movie came out?

00:23:35Marc:No, he died when I was four years old.

00:23:37Marc:Do you remember him?

00:23:39Guest:Yeah, we lived with him.

00:23:40Guest:And I remember like hiding behind the chair, you know, when I was little, we lived with him for a little bit.

00:23:45Guest:We smoked a pipe, you know, I have very specific memories.

00:23:48Guest:And there's some family lore and like stories that you hear over in your head.

00:23:51Guest:Right.

00:23:52Guest:And then when I was like, you know, in my early 20s, like different directors were attached.

00:23:57Guest:They were going to make a movie about him.

00:23:59Guest:And I was like a stalker.

00:24:00Guest:You know, I was like, I have to be in this movie.

00:24:01Guest:And by then, like my mom wasn't alive.

00:24:04Marc:Whose dad was he?

00:24:06Guest:My mom's.

00:24:07Marc:Uh-huh.

00:24:07Guest:And my dad was a, like, he fought in the Golden Gloves, so he, like, he was a... He's a boxer, too?

00:24:12Guest:Yeah, he was, like, small.

00:24:13Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:14Guest:A smaller guy, but he, like, looked up.

00:24:16Guest:He kind of bragged on my grandpa so much, but my mom was so humble about it, so it was no big deal.

00:24:22Marc:Yeah, yeah, right.

00:24:23Guest:You know.

00:24:23Marc:But it was to your dad.

00:24:24Marc:Oh, to my dad.

00:24:26Marc:He probably knew that when he married her because he knew the old man.

00:24:29Guest:He grew up with her.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah.

00:24:31Marc:And so he was in your grandfather was in his life.

00:24:34Guest:Yeah.

00:24:34Marc:So one of his heroes.

00:24:35Guest:Yeah.

00:24:36Marc:He's marrying one.

00:24:36Guest:And then, of course, he had all the, you know, the old pictures and, you know, like too much.

00:24:42Guest:Like it was so embarrassing to my mom the way he was trying to telegraph it.

00:24:46Marc:Did you ever think like, is this the reason why you married me?

00:24:49Guest:I don't think she thought that, but I just think she didn't need anyone to, you know, not that she wasn't proud of him, but it wasn't her.

00:24:58Guest:It's just her dad, you know.

00:24:59Marc:So when you're growing up, I mean, all these other siblings, are they just in another place?

00:25:04Guest:Yeah, I think sometimes about like the way we parent now and, you know, like where we help our kids with their feelings and we talk to them about everything.

00:25:12Guest:I remember meeting, like I knew my three oldest siblings from when I was born.

00:25:18Guest:Yeah.

00:25:18Guest:But the younger five, I didn't meet until I was 10 years old.

00:25:23Marc:Right.

00:25:24Marc:Right.

00:25:24Guest:But nobody explained it to me.

00:25:26Guest:It was just like... Here they are.

00:25:28Guest:We're driving up to Maine.

00:25:29Guest:We're going to spend a weekend.

00:25:30Guest:These are your brothers and sisters.

00:25:32Guest:And I remember them all kind of being like, hey, punk.

00:25:34Guest:You know, like none of them were that excited to meet me.

00:25:36Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:37Guest:I mean, they're lovely now and we all love each other.

00:25:39Guest:But, you know, nobody...

00:25:41Guest:It was like I remember watching Mad Men years ago, and I thought the show was so perfect, except when they sat their kids down and explained that they were getting divorced.

00:25:49Guest:I was like, nobody did that.

00:25:50Marc:No one did that?

00:25:50Guest:No, it was just throw them to the wolves.

00:25:52Guest:They'll figure it out.

00:25:53Marc:Yeah.

00:25:53Guest:We don't.

00:25:54Marc:Really?

00:25:55Guest:Yeah.

00:25:56Marc:But your parents didn't get divorced, right?

00:25:57Guest:No, but I was just saying, the parents just didn't do a lot of life coaching, I didn't think, in the 70s and 80s.

00:26:03Marc:Well, you have kids, right?

00:26:05Guest:Yeah, too.

00:26:05Marc:And how's that going?

00:26:06Guest:It's great.

00:26:07Guest:I love it.

00:26:07Marc:Yeah?

00:26:08Guest:Yeah.

00:26:08Guest:How old are they?

00:26:09Guest:Almost nine and 11.

00:26:11Marc:So as a parenting style, I mean, how do you kind of delegate?

00:26:17Marc:How do you figure out what your boundaries are?

00:26:18Marc:Did you read books?

00:26:20Guest:I read books.

00:26:21Guest:I probably talk too much.

00:26:22Guest:I literally, you know, speaking of that inner critic voice, I had like a conversation with her earlier today.

00:26:28Guest:About?

00:26:28Guest:Because they, I was in New York last week and I did some like late night TV stuff and they wanted to see it.

00:26:35Guest:They're like, did you talk about us?

00:26:36Guest:Like they always want to have a, they want to have like a, what do you call it?

00:26:39Guest:Like an internet footprint.

00:26:41Guest:Yeah.

00:26:41Guest:Like they're mad that I have no social media.

00:26:43Guest:Yeah.

00:26:44Guest:Like they just think it's so painful that I don't like it.

00:26:47Guest:Yeah.

00:26:47Guest:That they have this particular mom.

00:26:48Guest:So I was like, well, I talked about you guys on the TV.

00:26:51Guest:Do you want to see it?

00:26:52Guest:And then I showed it to them.

00:26:53Guest:And then like that critic lady, I was talking, talking to her in my head.

00:26:56Guest:I'm like, oh, I should probably go home tonight and be like,

00:26:57Guest:How did you feel to see yourself on TV last night?

00:27:01Guest:Was it okay?

00:27:02Guest:Do I?

00:27:03Marc:No, you had pictures on TV?

00:27:04Guest:Yeah, like a picture of them in a Halloween costume.

00:27:06Guest:Was it with Fallon?

00:27:07Guest:No, it was with Seth Meyers.

00:27:09Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:27:09Guest:It was fun.

00:27:10Marc:Yeah, he's a sweet guy.

00:27:11Guest:Sweet.

00:27:12Marc:Yeah, I think he does a good job.

00:27:14Guest:Really good.

00:27:14Marc:Did you have some funny stories?

00:27:16Guest:I guess so.

00:27:17Guest:Yeah.

00:27:18Guest:I don't know.

00:27:19Guest:I don't know how funny they are.

00:27:20Marc:Have you done their shows before?

00:27:21Guest:I've done them before.

00:27:22Guest:Yeah.

00:27:23Guest:And then there's always that pressure.

00:27:26Guest:I guess not for you because you just get on here and talk every day.

00:27:29Guest:Just talk.

00:27:29Marc:No, there's always pressure because you got to do the whole like segment producer.

00:27:33Marc:What do you got?

00:27:34Guest:Yeah.

00:27:34Marc:Are there stories you like to tell?

00:27:36Marc:Yeah.

00:27:36Guest:And I'm all, yeah, it's like 48 hours before.

00:27:38Guest:I'm like, shoot, I should have been paying attention to my life.

00:27:41Guest:What are my stories?

00:27:42Guest:What's funny?

00:27:44Marc:And then you got to, then Seth will step in and save you.

00:27:47Guest:Yeah.

00:27:48Guest:I mean, my kids are, when you said you started with, they're so funny to me that every day is a story.

00:27:54Guest:You know what I mean?

00:27:54Guest:Of course.

00:27:55Guest:Yeah.

00:27:55Guest:So it's like, I just go, what was Saturday?

00:27:57Guest:Oh, okay.

00:27:57Guest:I got one.

00:27:59Marc:So it was all about the kids.

00:28:00Guest:It's always all about the kids.

00:28:01Marc:But it's also about like, what are these, you did a Disney Plus movie.

00:28:05Oh.

00:28:06Marc:That sounds heavy.

00:28:07Guest:It's so good, Mark.

00:28:09Guest:I love it so much.

00:28:11Marc:You're working with an actual special needs kid who's nonverbal.

00:28:15Guest:She's verbal.

00:28:16Guest:She is.

00:28:16Guest:Yeah, she's a brilliant girl from England, and she's really funny.

00:28:22Guest:In the movie, though, she plays nonverbal, and she really does have cerebral palsy.

00:28:27Guest:Right, of course.

00:28:27Guest:I mean, so she's so vulnerable in the movie to just—

00:28:30Guest:allow us to witness life we have to carry her in certain ways and she just gives a really it's one of those ones especially because she really is the age of the kids who are mean to you in school you just want everyone to see it because you just want everybody to go feel like this is her she's so cool you should be so lucky to know her and know her world

00:28:57Marc:It's so amazing how reliably horrible people are.

00:29:02Guest:Yeah.

00:29:03Guest:Yeah.

00:29:04Marc:I never understand it, that the instinct, even as a child, is to kind of bully the less, the weaker people.

00:29:16Guest:The vulnerable person.

00:29:17Marc:Yeah, the vulnerable, yeah.

00:29:18Yeah.

00:29:18Guest:Yeah, I have a my oldest one is in sixth grade, like starting those middle school years.

00:29:23Guest:And she's kind of like, what's happening to everybody?

00:29:25Guest:Like she can see that everybody's losing their mind.

00:29:27Guest:Like it's puberty.

00:29:29Marc:It's like, yeah, but it's also I automatically think really politics is already a thing.

00:29:35Guest:No, it's not that.

00:29:35Guest:But but it's the meanness thing.

00:29:37Guest:Well, meanness has been like it just becomes a thing justified.

00:29:40Marc:Yeah.

00:29:40Guest:Yeah.

00:29:41Guest:Where they really just start trying on things.

00:29:44Marc:So that might have something to do with it.

00:29:46Guest:Yeah, I guess.

00:29:46Guest:And like kind of moving for power, vying for power by being mean and making people look dumb or weak.

00:29:52Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:53Guest:So kids that you've known your whole life that are so kind, it just like hijacks them.

00:29:57Marc:So when you're as an actor in a movie like this and as a mother, so this, I imagine that the emotions are sort of all in place already to be open.

00:30:09Marc:But like the experience of what it requires to be,

00:30:12Marc:You have that kind of situation.

00:30:15Marc:You've got to be living it when you're doing it.

00:30:18Guest:Yeah.

00:30:18Guest:Like this one was easy because it was like both our girls are adopted.

00:30:23Guest:Yeah.

00:30:24Guest:Gracie's black.

00:30:24Guest:Zaza's Latina.

00:30:25Guest:And you just I kind of know already what it's like to have to advocate for them.

00:30:29Guest:Like when when you're an adoptive family and vision.

00:30:32Guest:Like when people can see it coming, they feel entitled to like ask questions.

00:30:38Guest:When did you get them?

00:30:40Guest:You know, and I'm like, well, they're standing here.

00:30:42Guest:They're human beings.

00:30:43Guest:We're not going to – let's be normal human beings and talk, you know.

00:30:47Guest:And they're great.

00:30:48Guest:Like my older one will be like, can you mind your business?

00:30:51Guest:You know, like she's really tough.

00:30:52Guest:Yeah.

00:30:53Guest:So I already kind of went in there knowing like, oh, this is a part I want to explore about how do we.

00:30:58Guest:I almost feel like my kids advocate for themselves better than I actually can.

00:31:01Guest:Right.

00:31:01Guest:Yeah.

00:31:02Guest:But I was but I was interested in that part of the role of how a mom and she messes up like in the movie she messes up and I mess up.

00:31:09Guest:And, you know, I think she likes dad better than me, you know, in the movie.

00:31:13Marc:Does that happen in real life?

00:31:14Guest:Yeah, sometimes.

00:31:16Guest:Right now, they're kind of really into me.

00:31:17Guest:They're on your team?

00:31:18Guest:I like it.

00:31:18Guest:But I know, like, teenagers, they're going to be all about him.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah?

00:31:22Marc:Oh, you think so?

00:31:23Guest:I mean, as far as acting, they think he's so much—he is cooler.

00:31:27Guest:But they're like—my little one will be like, don't you feel bad?

00:31:30Guest:People stop and ask Dad for autographs, and nobody asks you.

00:31:34Guest:I'm like, I don't feel bad.

00:31:35Guest:She's like, yes, you do.

00:31:36Guest:Yeah.

00:31:37Marc:No, I don't.

00:31:38Marc:What's he getting the big autograph attention for?

00:31:39Guest:Office Space.

00:31:42Marc:Oh.

00:31:42Guest:Yeah.

00:31:42Marc:The classics.

00:31:43Guest:Band of Brothers.

00:31:44Guest:Yeah, he's got some good, he's got some doozies in there.

00:31:46Marc:Honestly, I think, like, Prime Ron is an adaptation.

00:31:54Guest:He's so good in that.

00:31:55Marc:That's fucking crazy.

00:31:56Guest:It's crazy, and it's also crazy because that's like the least one like him.

00:31:59Guest:He's not like that at all.

00:32:01Guest:That's why it's such a good performance.

00:32:02Marc:It's a nice little part, but like, you know, when you're in show business and you kind of wonder, like, what exactly is wrong with fucking agents?

00:32:11Marc:Because...

00:32:12Marc:Because part of them, they're all missing the same piece.

00:32:15Marc:And you can speak to them as humans and stuff.

00:32:18Marc:Yeah.

00:32:18Marc:But there is something, some component missing.

00:32:22Marc:And he just fucking nailed it.

00:32:24Marc:Yeah.

00:32:25Marc:It's like, well, just write it.

00:32:26Marc:I'm sorry.

00:32:30Marc:Is it okay being with an actor?

00:32:32Guest:It is.

00:32:33Guest:Ron's not very actor-ish.

00:32:35Marc:But you don't drive each other crazy?

00:32:37Guest:No, not at all.

00:32:38Guest:I mean, I think I drive him a little crazy.

00:32:40Marc:But that has nothing to do with being an actor?

00:32:42Guest:No.

00:32:43Guest:If anything, he's like a little Mr. Magoo-ish.

00:32:46Guest:Really?

00:32:47Guest:That's what drives me crazy.

00:32:48Guest:He has this moment every day where he sits on the end of our bed with his socks in his hand and stares at them for about seven minutes.

00:32:56Guest:And I'm always like, what is that?

00:32:58Guest:I don't know.

00:32:59Marc:It's a sock meditation.

00:33:00Marc:You haven't heard of that?

00:33:01Guest:Yeah.

00:33:01Guest:But then when I say, like, what are you thinking about right now?

00:33:04Guest:And it is some it's usually something like that happened in history in like 1712 or the cooling and heating system in our house.

00:33:11Guest:Like he like, you know, he reads Scientific American for fun.

00:33:13Guest:Like he's not into it.

00:33:14Marc:actor-y things you know I don't know it sounds a little like I've been told recently that I have ADHD I have it Ron has it that's what I mean my oldest kid has it and my youngest doesn't and it's like she's so miserable how do you know you have it I mean because somebody told me like a doctor told me I'm just taking it by you know listeners yeah and just people I know I've not gone to a doctor for the diagnosis

00:33:34Guest:Well, I could tell because you and I, like, I want to cut you off.

00:33:37Guest:You want to cut me off.

00:33:38Guest:Like, we probably just want to just keep jumping.

00:33:39Marc:Is that ADHD?

00:33:40Guest:I think it's like an impulse.

00:33:42Marc:Really?

00:33:42Marc:It's not neediness?

00:33:44Guest:I don't think that's something else.

00:33:47Marc:Or desire to make it about me?

00:33:49Marc:Is that all part of the disease?

00:33:51Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:33:51Guest:That might be narcissism.

00:33:53Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:33:54Marc:I like ADHD better.

00:33:55Marc:Let's go with ADHD.

00:33:56Marc:Okay.

00:33:57Marc:I don't need to do the narcissism thing.

00:33:58Guest:No, but you said make it all about me.

00:34:01Guest:Like, isn't that the classic?

00:34:02Marc:I got to play a narcissist in a movie.

00:34:05Guest:Is that what I just read today?

00:34:07Guest:Yeah.

00:34:07Guest:That's a really good premise.

00:34:09Marc:Yeah.

00:34:09Marc:I got to be that guy.

00:34:10Guest:Yeah.

00:34:11Marc:Yeah.

00:34:11Marc:It's going to be kind of interesting.

00:34:12Guest:Yeah.

00:34:13Marc:Very nervous.

00:34:14Guest:You are?

00:34:14Guest:Yes.

00:34:15Guest:Okay.

00:34:16Marc:Do you get nervous?

00:34:17No.

00:34:17Guest:I want to get nervous.

00:34:19Marc:But you don't anymore?

00:34:20Guest:No, I mean, I do sometimes.

00:34:23Guest:Yeah, I mean, sometimes, but not enough.

00:34:25Guest:Like, I want that to be harder and scarier.

00:34:28Guest:I was really nervous doing your sister's sister.

00:34:30Guest:Like, those things made me nervous.

00:34:31Marc:Because of the improv.

00:34:32Guest:Yeah, the improv and that movie I jumped in last minute for somebody who fell out and I had to like, you know, say hi, Mark Duplass.

00:34:42Guest:And then we're doing like a sex scene into this scene.

00:34:44Guest:You know, I like where I like the fear.

00:34:47Guest:So, yeah, the fact that you're nervous gets me excited.

00:34:50Guest:That makes me think you're going to transform your life.

00:34:52Marc:Really?

00:34:53Marc:Uh-huh.

00:34:53Marc:I hope so.

00:34:54Guest:Yeah.

00:34:55Marc:Like, I go through a lot of stuff in my head about roles.

00:34:58Marc:You know, I go through a lot of, like, who turned this down to where— Oh, you care?

00:35:02Marc:That I got it.

00:35:03Guest:Yeah.

00:35:04Marc:Who cares?

00:35:05Marc:No, I don't really care.

00:35:06Guest:Yeah.

00:35:06Marc:But, like, my go-to is, like, there's, like, so many other guys who can do this.

00:35:11Guest:I mean, what— That sounds really helpful to your process.

00:35:14Guest:Yeah.

00:35:14Marc:Hey, we all have our own process.

00:35:17Marc:I like to erase myself entirely through painful insecurity so I can build up from there.

00:35:22Guest:Yeah, you do a whole recasting of the role and then compare, despair, and then you finally get there.

00:35:28Marc:Well, I mean, you act constantly.

00:35:31Marc:I don't act constantly.

00:35:33Guest:Okay.

00:35:33Marc:And so the life of an actor is not, I never feel like it's quite my life.

00:35:38Guest:Right.

00:35:38Marc:Even though I've done a lot of it at this point, I still feel like the other thing, this, my comedy, you know, that's who I am.

00:35:44Marc:I always, I want to do the acting and I've done a lot of it at this point, but it still feels like, well, I'm just trying it out.

00:35:50Guest:You just did a series in Vancouver too.

00:35:51Guest:I did.

00:35:52Guest:Yeah.

00:35:52Guest:Cause I ran into John Hamburg, you know, one of your directors.

00:35:55Guest:Yeah.

00:35:55Marc:Cause you're up there.

00:35:56Marc:I think I texted you or somebody did.

00:35:58Marc:Oh, I knew you were up there.

00:35:59Guest:I didn't get it.

00:35:59Guest:I was thinking like, Oh, maybe we could have dinner or something.

00:36:02Marc:Yeah.

00:36:02Marc:But I was too busy sitting alone wondering why.

00:36:04Marc:You were.

00:36:04Marc:Yeah.

00:36:06Marc:I was busy sitting alone in a high rise in Vancouver watching old movies wondering why I was up there.

00:36:11Guest:Well, at least you were watching old movies.

00:36:14Marc:I'll tell you something.

00:36:15Marc:The one thing that kept me from actually wanting to be an actor was trailer time.

00:36:21Marc:I cannot deal with trailer time.

00:36:23Marc:Okay.

00:36:24Marc:And it just drove me crazy because I can't seem to do anything productive in a trailer.

00:36:28Marc:Right.

00:36:28Marc:And at some point I find myself going like,

00:36:30Marc:What could they be doing?

00:36:32Marc:Right.

00:36:32Marc:You know, how long does it take?

00:36:34Marc:I mean, Jesus.

00:36:36Marc:And in this last one, they had a Samsung television in the trailer and I hooked it up to my Netflix and my Prime and everything.

00:36:43Marc:Yeah.

00:36:43Marc:And I'm like, I'm watching The Godfather.

00:36:45Marc:I'm watching Tarantino movies.

00:36:47Marc:I'm like, this is fine.

00:36:48Guest:Well, that's great.

00:36:49Guest:But that also tells me you're not that nervous.

00:36:52Marc:Well, not for that.

00:36:52Marc:I mean, it's a supporting role.

00:36:54Marc:It's a cakewalk.

00:36:55Guest:Okay.

00:36:55Guest:But I'm just mean because, like, I still, I guess I still use my trailer time to do, like, work.

00:37:00Marc:Well, I do the work.

00:37:01Marc:I make sure I know the lines and stuff.

00:37:03Marc:Okay.

00:37:03Marc:But also when, depending on what the scene is, you kind of know, like, all right, I got, you know, it's one exchange.

00:37:09Guest:Okay.

00:37:09Marc:I know what's going to happen.

00:37:10Guest:Okay.

00:37:10Marc:Yeah.

00:37:11Marc:And, you know, and I'm going to wait three hours.

00:37:13Guest:Yeah.

00:37:13Marc:And then I'm going to go out there and try to enjoy what being an actor is like.

00:37:17Guest:Well, and you also do a lot of comedy.

00:37:18Yeah.

00:37:18Marc:Yeah.

00:37:19Guest:Yeah.

00:37:19Guest:I mean, I do a lot of like, and now I'm the mother of this murdered child.

00:37:25Guest:You know what I mean?

00:37:25Guest:So I'm in my trailer feeling, you know, various degrees of despair.

00:37:30Marc:Well, I'm hired to do various degrees of cranky, big hearted dudes.

00:37:33Marc:Sure.

00:37:33Guest:Yeah.

00:37:34Marc:So like.

00:37:35Guest:You're like, I got that.

00:37:36Guest:I got that.

00:37:37Guest:Sure.

00:37:37Marc:But the narcissism thing is weird because to play a real self-centered person.

00:37:41Marc:Yeah.

00:37:41Marc:But one without shame.

00:37:43Marc:That's tricky.

00:37:44Guest:Because you have a great role model.

00:37:46Marc:Who's that, my dad?

00:37:47Guest:No.

00:37:48Guest:I mean, just put on the news.

00:37:50Marc:I can't be that guy.

00:37:52Guest:No, but I'm just saying if you want to just make a list, you could just watch all the moves play out.

00:37:57Marc:But I wouldn't call him a good-hearted person.

00:37:59Guest:Oh, no.

00:37:59Guest:This guy's a good-hearted person.

00:38:00Marc:Yeah, I think so.

00:38:01Marc:He's just a little self-absorbed.

00:38:02Marc:He's an actor.

00:38:03Marc:So he's the actor version.

00:38:05Guest:Yeah, I got you.

00:38:06Marc:And they pretend to be good-hearted until they really have to be.

00:38:09Guest:Yeah.

00:38:10Marc:Yeah.

00:38:10Marc:That's interesting.

00:38:11Marc:So when did you start doing the acting?

00:38:13Guest:I mean, I guess I always did it.

00:38:15Guest:I came, like we talked about, more working class background.

00:38:20Guest:Nobody went into the arts.

00:38:22Marc:I've heard this a lot lately.

00:38:23Guest:Really?

00:38:24Guest:Yeah.

00:38:24Guest:So I didn't think it was something I could ever pursue.

00:38:27Guest:I went to college to try to not do it.

00:38:29Guest:But I was telling a friend recently, we were talking about something.

00:38:32Guest:And I was like, yeah, you know, in kindergarten, I wanted to be a ballerina and I got the seal.

00:38:36Guest:And then in first grade, I wanted to be Gretel and Hansel and Gretel, but I was the tree.

00:38:41Guest:And she's like, you always wanted to be an actor.

00:38:43Guest:Most people couldn't tell you like what roles they didn't get in kindergarten.

00:38:47Guest:So I guess I always wanted to do it.

00:38:49Marc:But like, how do you like, and this is like, so you're in, where'd you grow up?

00:38:53Marc:New Jersey.

00:38:54Marc:New Jersey?

00:38:55Guest:Yeah.

00:38:56Marc:Which part?

00:38:57Guest:Morristown, near Morristown.

00:38:59Marc:I'm genetically Jersey.

00:39:01Guest:You are?

00:39:01Guest:Where?

00:39:02Guest:See, I feel genetically New York, but tell me more.

00:39:04Marc:No, I'm genetically Jersey.

00:39:05Marc:My dad's from Jersey City.

00:39:06Guest:Okay.

00:39:07Marc:My mother's from Pompton Lakes.

00:39:08Guest:Okay.

00:39:09Marc:You know where Pompton Lakes is?

00:39:10Guest:Uh-huh.

00:39:10Marc:You do?

00:39:11Guest:Yeah.

00:39:11Marc:I was excited when people know where Pompton Lakes is.

00:39:14Guest:And my dad's from Jersey City.

00:39:15Guest:My mom and my dad were both born in Jersey City.

00:39:17Marc:They were probably born at the same hospital that my dad was.

00:39:19Guest:Probably.

00:39:20Marc:Margaret Haig Maternity Hospital.

00:39:22Guest:Yep, yep, yep, yep.

00:39:24Marc:There you go.

00:39:25Guest:We're connected.

00:39:25Guest:We are.

00:39:26Marc:Jersey.

00:39:27Marc:Do you like Jersey?

00:39:29Guest:Yeah, I like it.

00:39:30Guest:It's beautiful.

00:39:30Guest:I mean, parts of it are really beautiful.

00:39:32Marc:They really are.

00:39:34Guest:But I was born in Queens, so I feel genetic.

00:39:36Guest:And then I lived there.

00:39:37Marc:You were born in Queens.

00:39:38Guest:I was born in Queens.

00:39:39Guest:And then I, you know, went to college in New York and then went there at 21 to become an actor.

00:39:43Guest:So I feel genetically linked to New York in a way.

00:39:46Marc:Right.

00:39:46Marc:But Queens is more Jersey.

00:39:48Marc:It's a Jersey or part of New York.

00:39:49Marc:Yeah, I guess it is.

00:39:50Marc:It's very Jersey.

00:39:51Marc:Was it like just a full Irish working class neighborhood?

00:39:55Guest:I don't know what it was.

00:39:56Guest:Yeah, I guess for a minute, you know.

00:39:59Guest:I guess, yeah, I remember my cousin got married and they were, I wish I could remember, was it Queens Boulevard or something?

00:40:05Guest:There's a whole strip of Irish bars.

00:40:07Guest:That's where everybody met and got married.

00:40:08Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:10Marc:So, okay, so you grew up in Jersey.

00:40:12Guest:Yeah.

00:40:12Marc:And you want to be an actor.

00:40:13Marc:Now, given that you were the station of life you were in, were your parents like, what are you fucking talking about?

00:40:19Guest:No, it was kind of good in that no one cared about me that much.

00:40:23Guest:You know, like my dad said to me a couple of years ago, he's like, I can't believe that you're successful.

00:40:29Guest:And I'm like, what?

00:40:31Guest:What do you mean you can't believe it?

00:40:33Guest:And he's like, I don't know.

00:40:34Guest:I just thought I was like, why?

00:40:35Guest:What did you think it would be?

00:40:36Guest:He's like, I don't know.

00:40:37Guest:I just thought you'd get married, get pregnant, get married to some guy on the block.

00:40:40Guest:yeah oh wow oh okay thanks yeah yeah thanks for the so no they weren't discouraging at all i think they were like cool but i don't think they thought but i don't even think but i don't even think they cared if i went to college you know what i mean like i just nobody was betting on you on me to do much that's one of the greatest weird compliments i've ever heard

00:41:01Marc:I just didn't think he'd be like in light of being successful.

00:41:05Marc:He was like, yeah, I don't know that I thought you would ever make it.

00:41:08Marc:Well, and he was really proud, but it was just, I don't know.

00:41:11Marc:It's good that he could see it because no matter how successful I got, you know, if you're not on a TV show or something, like my dad would be like, why don't you talk to, you know, Jerry Seinfeld?

00:41:21Marc:He probably knows what to do.

00:41:23Guest:That's a lot of parents.

00:41:24Marc:What do you mean?

00:41:26Marc:Yeah.

00:41:26Guest:My father-in-law is such a good guy.

00:41:29Guest:And he'll say things to me like, you know what Tiger Woods' problem is?

00:41:33Guest:And I'm like, tell me.

00:41:34Guest:You know what I mean?

00:41:35Guest:Because he's really, he's always looking for the loophole, you know.

00:41:38Guest:Is he a golfer?

00:41:38Guest:He is a golfer.

00:41:40Marc:Do you play golf?

00:41:41Guest:No, I used to play with my dad.

00:41:42Marc:He's a big golfer?

00:41:44Guest:No, we just kind of did it recreationally after my mom, like a bonding thing after my mom died.

00:41:48Marc:Go out with the fellas, ride around.

00:41:50Guest:Well, he said I played like an 80-year-old golfer.

00:41:52Guest:I just hit it like straight down the fairway, but like 100 yards.

00:41:56Marc:Yeah.

00:41:56Guest:You know, every time.

00:41:57Guest:But now I don't care about golf.

00:41:58Marc:Because this whole show I did was a golf show, and I don't give a shit.

00:42:01Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:42:02Marc:And I was like, I don't know if you want me.

00:42:03Marc:I'm not going to be able to play.

00:42:05Marc:He's like, yeah, well, you don't have to.

00:42:06Guest:Yeah.

00:42:06Marc:You're like a retired caddy.

00:42:08Marc:I'm like, all right.

00:42:08Guest:Okay.

00:42:09Marc:I can figure that out.

00:42:10Guest:Yeah.

00:42:10Marc:And then you think a little business to do for yourself when you're doing nothing.

00:42:13Guest:That's a funny role.

00:42:14Guest:A caddy.

00:42:15Guest:Right?

00:42:16Marc:Yeah.

00:42:16Marc:I was with Owen Wilson.

00:42:17Marc:It was pretty funny.

00:42:18Guest:Yeah.

00:42:19Marc:But I remember I get so thrilled when I make acting choices, you know.

00:42:22Marc:Because there's a lot of...

00:42:24Marc:There's a lot of times where I'm just standing watching the golfers because we're working with this kid who Owen has taken under his wing as an ex-pro.

00:42:34Marc:So when I'm just standing there, I'm kind of looking at the – checking out the fairway and looking at the wind.

00:42:40Guest:I was like – How do you see the wind?

00:42:42Marc:I'm doing it.

00:42:42Marc:I'm an amazing caddy.

00:42:44Guest:Okay, yeah.

00:42:45Marc:So I can see the wind.

00:42:46Guest:Wow.

00:42:46Marc:All right.

00:42:47Marc:So what do you do?

00:42:48Marc:You go to New York to do the acting?

00:42:49Yeah.

00:42:49Guest:Go to New York.

00:42:51Guest:I study.

00:42:52Marc:With who?

00:42:53Marc:Like what?

00:42:53Marc:Like what's the scene?

00:42:54Marc:What year?

00:42:55Guest:Scene.

00:42:55Guest:Well, I went to college and I was like a creative studies major, which was like Hofstra.

00:42:59Guest:Okay.

00:43:00Guest:Make your own Sunday kind of major.

00:43:01Guest:Yeah.

00:43:02Guest:Classes on Beckett and Jack Kerouac.

00:43:04Marc:Cobble something together.

00:43:05Guest:Yeah.

00:43:05Marc:Yeah.

00:43:06Guest:And then New York City, I studied with some really, really good theater teachers.

00:43:11Guest:Yeah.

00:43:11Guest:You know, and then I did theater.

00:43:12Guest:I thought that was going to be my life.

00:43:13Guest:Ron Van Leeu, Earl Gister, Lloyd Richards, like really like old school.

00:43:20Guest:Yeah.

00:43:20Guest:You know, this is like the 90s.

00:43:22Guest:A lot of scenes study.

00:43:23Guest:Meisner?

00:43:24Guest:No, Meisner.

00:43:24Guest:I never did Meisner.

00:43:25Guest:And then I was, you know, doing off, off, off, off, off, off, Broadway.

00:43:33Guest:Yeah, theater, theater, theater.

00:43:34Marc:Like crazy plays?

00:43:35Guest:Yeah, some crazy plays.

00:43:36Marc:Naked?

00:43:37Naked.

00:43:37Guest:Naked once.

00:43:38Marc:Yeah.

00:43:39Guest:That's so weird.

00:43:41Guest:Nobody's ever said that.

00:43:42Guest:Nobody's ever said, oh, you came from the theater naked.

00:43:46Guest:You were getting naked.

00:43:47Marc:Tell us about the one naked one.

00:43:48Guest:Yeah.

00:43:49Marc:Everyone who does off, off, off, off Broadway is like, there's a naked one in there.

00:43:52Guest:Yeah.

00:43:52Guest:It was off Broadway.

00:43:53Guest:Oh.

00:43:54Guest:Then my naked one.

00:43:55Guest:So it was kind of close to Broadway.

00:43:56Marc:But that must be a pretty good baptism into something, a type of vulnerability that you might not want to do.

00:44:03Guest:Yeah.

00:44:03Marc:But you do.

00:44:03Guest:It is.

00:44:04Guest:It's like a rite of passage.

00:44:05Marc:Yeah, to be naked on stage in a bad play.

00:44:08Guest:It wasn't a bad play.

00:44:08Guest:Oh, that's good.

00:44:09Guest:It was Danny and the Deep Blue Sea.

00:44:10Guest:It was a good play.

00:44:11Guest:Yeah.

00:44:11Guest:I think it was probably OK production.

00:44:14Marc:Does it always call for nudity or was it just a weird director?

00:44:17Guest:No, it did.

00:44:18Marc:Okay.

00:44:18Guest:Yeah.

00:44:19Guest:I mean, it's kind of in the play.

00:44:20Guest:But I know what you mean.

00:44:21Guest:No, there were other ones.

00:44:22Guest:I remember one time I had an agent say to me that, you know, the casting director says she has to be comfortable doing anything naked.

00:44:31Guest:Otherwise, you shouldn't come in on this.

00:44:32Guest:And I was like, well, I'm not comfortable doing anything.

00:44:35Guest:Like, I don't know what that means.

00:44:37Guest:Yeah.

00:44:37Guest:So, I mean, there's certainly a lot of that when you're an actress in your 20s.

00:44:41Marc:Yeah.

00:44:41Guest:And luckily, no one's asking anymore.

00:44:45Yeah.

00:44:45Marc:Not unless you're Demi Moore.

00:44:47Marc:My God.

00:44:48Guest:Did you see that movie?

00:44:48Guest:I haven't seen it.

00:44:49Marc:I fucking saw it, yeah.

00:44:50Marc:Was it great?

00:44:50Marc:It's great.

00:44:51Marc:Wow.

00:44:52Marc:It's fucking insane.

00:44:54Marc:I mean, I'm not really a horror guy, but I'm enough of a Cronenberg guy to kind of get where she's coming from, the director.

00:45:01Marc:Yeah.

00:45:02Marc:You know, once you buy into the conceit, which you do pretty quickly because it's required of you.

00:45:07Marc:Yeah.

00:45:09Marc:It's pretty, you know, it's like a satire.

00:45:11Marc:I mean, it's about something.

00:45:12Guest:Yeah.

00:45:13Marc:You know, it's about aging.

00:45:13Marc:It's about women.

00:45:15Marc:It's about how women are seen, how they see themselves.

00:45:17Marc:Yeah.

00:45:18Marc:And what they'll do in the name of vanity.

00:45:21Marc:And it's like crazy.

00:45:23Marc:It's crazy.

00:45:24Guest:Oh, I'm going to see it.

00:45:24Marc:Because you watch it for two hours and you're looking.

00:45:26Marc:There's still like 25 minutes left.

00:45:27Marc:And like, what could they fucking even do now?

00:45:30Marc:Yeah.

00:45:30Marc:And then that third act happens and you're like, oh, my God.

00:45:33Guest:Did it make you sad?

00:45:36Marc:I think what happens with that, the sadness is, like, my girlfriend is a horror person.

00:45:44Guest:Okay.

00:45:45Marc:So she knows horror.

00:45:46Marc:It's her thing.

00:45:47Guest:Okay.

00:45:49Marc:And so when the movie kind of finishes up where it finishes, you know, it's kind of mind-blowing.

00:45:55Marc:But I think it's definitely sad, but the nature of monsters is kind of sad.

00:46:01Guest:Yeah.

00:46:02Marc:You know, in the classic sense.

00:46:03Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:46:04Marc:You know what I mean?

00:46:04Guest:Yeah, I do.

00:46:05Yeah.

00:46:05Marc:And so you get that, but you also get this level of empathy for the experience of women.

00:46:13Guest:Well, that's what I meant.

00:46:14Guest:Because when you said the sentence, like, that women would do anything, you know, to fight aging, I was like, oh, that hurts so much.

00:46:22Guest:Yeah.

00:46:23Guest:You know.

00:46:24Marc:Yeah.

00:46:24Guest:Like, why can't we just get old together?

00:46:26Marc:You can, can't you?

00:46:27Guest:Yeah, we can.

00:46:28Guest:But I just mean, like, our culture.

00:46:29Guest:Like, why can't we all just, like.

00:46:31Marc:It's a culture, too.

00:46:32Marc:But, like, is it all cultural?

00:46:38Marc:I think like I'm pretty vain.

00:46:40Guest:Yeah.

00:46:41Marc:I'm not going to dye my hair.

00:46:42Guest:OK.

00:46:42Marc:That I know of.

00:46:43Guest:Right.

00:46:44Marc:And like I look at myself like when I look at my mirror, I feel fine.

00:46:47Marc:But then I see a picture of me.

00:46:48Marc:I'm like, oh, fuck, it's happening.

00:46:49Guest:Yeah.

00:46:50Marc:And I feel like on some level, should I be doing something other than just exercising and everything else?

00:46:57Marc:And I don't.

00:46:58Marc:I'm not going to get any, you know, I'm relatively comfortable.

00:47:01Guest:Yeah.

00:47:02Marc:But I'm a guy.

00:47:02Marc:I get it.

00:47:03Guest:Yeah.

00:47:04Guest:Yeah.

00:47:05Marc:Are you freaking out?

00:47:06Guest:freaking out but i hate that i even think about it i mean i don't mind if i think about it like it's related to mortality right but i don't like enjoy thinking about it when when i feel like it's connected to my livelihood oh yeah or my uh like how much i'll be able to express myself going forward but it seems like you do pretty well

00:47:28Guest:I think I do pretty well.

00:47:30Marc:You know what I mean?

00:47:30Guest:Yeah.

00:47:31Marc:It's like, you know, you're casting things that are appropriate for you and you seem to, like, there seems to be plenty of them in a way.

00:47:38Guest:Yeah.

00:47:39Guest:No, I'm happy.

00:47:40Guest:I just, you know what I mean?

00:47:41Guest:There's a, I think, a pressure and...

00:47:45Guest:And then you look around and if everybody's going to look a different age, then, you know, I guess I can start playing grandmas.

00:47:53Guest:Not yet.

00:47:54Guest:I did.

00:47:54Guest:I already played a grandma.

00:47:55Marc:How was that?

00:47:56Marc:Fine.

00:47:56Guest:I mean, you know, it's like one of those ones where you had the kid at 14.

00:47:59Guest:Oh, right, right.

00:48:00Marc:Wasn't a good situation.

00:48:02Guest:But now you're good.

00:48:03Yeah.

00:48:03Marc:Yeah, I don't know.

00:48:04Marc:I'm not freaking out about it, but there does come to a point where you're like, all right, we're closing in.

00:48:12Guest:Yeah.

00:48:12Marc:The final quarter somehow.

00:48:14Guest:Well, I think it's meant to prepare you.

00:48:18Marc:Yeah.

00:48:18Marc:You go to Canada and places, even like I was just in New Mexico, a lot of gray hair.

00:48:23Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:48:23Marc:A lot of women with gray hair, and it's like, that's great.

00:48:25Marc:Yeah.

00:48:26Marc:Why doesn't everybody do that?

00:48:27Marc:But out here, you're like, what's happened to her?

00:48:29Marc:She's really slipped off the...

00:48:31Marc:The slippery slope.

00:48:33Marc:You see a woman just walking down the street with gray hair like, wow, I hope she's okay.

00:48:39Guest:She wants to have a condition or can't afford the hairdresser.

00:48:43Guest:Yeah, because it's unheard of.

00:48:44Marc:So, New York, when do you get your first break?

00:48:48Guest:know break break break break you're doing plays did you do plays i know i you know it's funny i got my first broadway offer and i turned it down because i was getting stuff out here but that had been the goal and then at the time yeah yeah and then the only reason i i think i left new york was because i was going through a divorce you know a breakup and i needed to get out of dodge like i needed a change of scenery sure

00:49:10Guest:So I came out here and I would say got lucky and all those things.

00:49:15Guest:And also, you know, when your life is in free fall, you're like, what are you going to do?

00:49:19Guest:Tell me I can't have the job.

00:49:21Guest:You know, like you have a fearlessness about you.

00:49:24Guest:And I was just able to make a couple of things happen.

00:49:26Guest:So that gave me a foundation.

00:49:28Marc:It's good that it was fearlessness and not just the desperation part.

00:49:31Guest:Yeah.

00:49:31Marc:And the anger.

00:49:32Guest:Yeah.

00:49:33Marc:Oh, my God.

00:49:34Guest:It didn't feel like that.

00:49:35Guest:Yeah, no, it more felt like I don't.

00:49:37Guest:yeah or I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do so I might as well just go for broke you know kind of thing but have you done stage lately no not since my kids I did a play at Williamstown last but it's a different gig you know with your family

00:49:53Marc:Oh, yeah, because you got like, what, three weeks of rehearsal?

00:49:55Guest:Yeah, and you also have to move everybody there to not get paid and pull them out of school, you know.

00:50:02Marc:Yeah, I had this dream of maybe doing some theater.

00:50:04Marc:Okay.

00:50:04Marc:And then like, you know, there was something that came up and they're like, yeah, they're going to run it for three weeks in Chicago.

00:50:10Marc:And then a month or two, and I'm like, I'm out.

00:50:12Guest:I can't.

00:50:12Marc:It's not my life.

00:50:14Guest:Yeah.

00:50:15Guest:Well, it's like Ron is in a dad band right now.

00:50:17Guest:It's just fun, you know, his midlife crisis.

00:50:20Guest:What's he play?

00:50:21Guest:He plays the keyboards and sings a bit.

00:50:23Guest:Who are they?

00:50:25Guest:He's really good.

00:50:25Guest:I mean, it's the kind of thing, like, they have, you know, these...

00:50:29Guest:what are they 80s songs these other songs like i don't know how many times you can hear them sing them but they're kind of great they're called notorious dad yeah but my point of bringing it up was oh that he's like god he's like i'm glad i became an actor he's like you gotta carry your equipment around you know like it's so unglamorous

00:50:48Guest:You know, and the theater is a real, it's a real blue collar gig.

00:50:52Guest:It's a great gig.

00:50:53Guest:I love it.

00:50:54Guest:Like, there's nothing like, well, you know, you do comedy in front of a live audience.

00:50:58Marc:But I'm in control.

00:50:59Marc:You know, I don't have to, I can do whatever I want.

00:51:01Guest:Yeah.

00:51:02Marc:When you're in a play, you're kind of beholden to the text.

00:51:04Guest:You still can do whatever you want, but yeah.

00:51:06Marc:Yeah.

00:51:06Guest:I mean, in terms of like the direction, you know, you can switch it up.

00:51:09Guest:But yeah, but you have to say the words.

00:51:10Marc:Yeah.

00:51:11Marc:Yeah.

00:51:12Marc:In comedy, it's not the same.

00:51:13Marc:I don't even know what it would be like to try to memorize a play right now.

00:51:16Guest:Yeah, is that an age thing or just an interest thing?

00:51:19Marc:No, I mean, I'm pretty good at it, but like, you know, because I've done it a couple times, but not since college.

00:51:23Guest:Yeah.

00:51:24Marc:And I did it, but like, it's a fucker.

00:51:27Guest:It's a beast.

00:51:28Guest:Totally.

00:51:28Guest:Yeah, especially if it doesn't work.

00:51:31Guest:There was a play I did one time with Jonathan Demme that just didn't quite work.

00:51:35Marc:He directed it?

00:51:36Guest:He directed it, but he also, it was the only play he ever did, you know, as a director, and it's such a different medium, and I used to wake up in the morning and be like,

00:51:44Guest:Maybe if I break my own leg, I don't have to do it.

00:51:47Marc:What's that part of the play?

00:51:48Guest:No, just because it was such a hard play and it wasn't working.

00:51:52Guest:If it's working, it's transcendent.

00:51:54Guest:Right.

00:51:55Guest:But it just wasn't working.

00:51:56Guest:Oh, no.

00:51:57Guest:Yeah, it was hard.

00:51:58Guest:Was it off-Broadway?

00:51:59Guest:It was off-Broadway, yeah.

00:52:00Guest:I'm going to tell you a story that Ron and I do this bit.

00:52:02Guest:I one time jumped into a play.

00:52:04Guest:I love saying off-Broadway.

00:52:06Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:52:07Guest:Someone got fired and I jumped in with like three or four days of rehearsal.

00:52:10Guest:Yeah.

00:52:10Guest:And somebody in the cast, in order to make me feel better, was like, oh, no, you don't understand.

00:52:16Guest:I had to, this guy Michael, oh, I wish I could remember his last name.

00:52:20Guest:He's a great musical theater actor.

00:52:22Guest:Yeah.

00:52:22Guest:He had to cover for Martin Short.

00:52:25Guest:Yeah.

00:52:25Guest:But he had to go on in the lead role unrehearsed.

00:52:28Guest:Oh, my God.

00:52:29Guest:So he had to learn all the songs, all the dances by the next day he was going on.

00:52:35Guest:And he said he stayed up till like six in the morning with his wife.

00:52:38Guest:And all of a sudden she closes the script and looks at him and says, you don't know this.

00:52:44Guest:Sometimes Ron and I just do that to each other.

00:52:46Guest:Because like, could you imagine having to go out and doing an entire play and knowing you just don't know it?

00:52:53Marc:Yeah.

00:52:54Marc:So what happened to that guy?

00:52:55Guest:He did it.

00:52:56Guest:This is what you do.

00:52:57Guest:You do it.

00:52:58Marc:And if you're confident enough, the audience doesn't know.

00:53:00Guest:No, they don't really know.

00:53:01Guest:And although like some of the grand ams of the theater, like I'd like you to pause right here.

00:53:06Guest:And he's like, you'll be lucky if I don't piss on your leg.

00:53:08Guest:Like I'm going to do whatever I can do to get through these two and a half hours.

00:53:13Marc:So when you did Margaret,

00:53:17Marc:That fucking movie.

00:53:18Marc:He's, like, intense, right?

00:53:20Marc:He's great.

00:53:21Marc:Have you worked with him more than once?

00:53:22Guest:No, just that time.

00:53:23Guest:I mean, I've run into him a bunch since.

00:53:25Guest:But because that was such an epic movie, I felt like I worked with him more than once.

00:53:29Guest:And also, he was one of my, you know, when you come up in the theater, I'd seen a lot of Kenny Lonergan plays.

00:53:33Guest:They were, like, really, like, This Is Our Youth and Lobby Hero.

00:53:36Guest:Those are, like, seminal plays.

00:53:38Guest:Like, if you were those ages.

00:53:39Guest:Yeah.

00:53:39Guest:You know, if you were in your 20s and you're watching other actors like Mark Ruffalo and Josh Hamilton and Glenn Fischel, like just some Heather Burns, these like great parts.

00:53:49Guest:Yeah.

00:53:49Guest:So I loved I loved Kenny back then.

00:53:51Marc:Yeah.

00:53:51Guest:So I just, you know, it was a small part, but I was so happy to be part of that ensemble.

00:53:55Marc:But when you watch that movie, aren't you like kind of like, oh, my God.

00:53:58Guest:Yeah.

00:53:59Marc:It's so fucking heavy, right?

00:54:00Guest:Yeah.

00:54:01Guest:I love a heavy.

00:54:01Guest:I love a heavy movie, though.

00:54:02Marc:Yeah.

00:54:03Marc:What's the heaviest movie you ever did, do you think?

00:54:05Guest:That I ever did?

00:54:06Guest:Yeah.

00:54:07Guest:Where you realize, like— Actually, the thing I just did when we were up in Vancouver, it's a limited series for—it's called Untamed, and it's in that vein of Mare of Easttown, you know, or True Detective.

00:54:16Guest:Yeah.

00:54:17Guest:And it was like—that sometimes happens, especially when you're alone, where my kids had left a little bit early to back to school, and I was like, okay, if I don't finish this role soon because it was so heavy, I'm like, I'm going to go down a little bit.

00:54:29Guest:You know what I mean?

00:54:30Guest:Like, I'm going to slip under.

00:54:32Guest:Yeah.

00:54:32Guest:So I was like, this really needs, you know, and it was just like it ended and I was like, okay, good.

00:54:36Guest:Yeah.

00:54:36Guest:Because I didn't think I could.

00:54:38Marc:Oh, really?

00:54:39Marc:Stay in it?

00:54:40Guest:You know, you stay in it.

00:54:41Guest:It's not even that.

00:54:41Guest:It's just like, like when you said you were watching old movies.

00:54:44Guest:Yeah.

00:54:45Guest:Again, it was like, you know, those shows are a lot about like true crime and stuff.

00:54:49Guest:And then I'm like imbibing all the true crime stuff, too.

00:54:52Guest:So it's like not only the role when I'm there, when I'm not working, I feel like I should be taking in that stuff, too, just to kind of not lose the thread.

00:54:59Guest:Sure.

00:55:00Guest:And I'm like, this is not good for me.

00:55:01Marc:Oh, no.

00:55:02Guest:Yeah.

00:55:02Guest:I got to go home.

00:55:03Guest:This has to wrap.

00:55:04Guest:So it was perfect timing.

00:55:05Guest:Oh, thank God it wrapped.

00:55:06Guest:But it was really heavy.

00:55:07Guest:It'll be.

00:55:08Guest:It'll be next year.

00:55:08Marc:It's a limited series?

00:55:10Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:55:10Marc:Oh, so you don't have to go back into it?

00:55:11Guest:Mm-mm.

00:55:12Marc:Because I think roles can take a toll on people.

00:55:15Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:55:15Marc:If you keep doing it.

00:55:16Marc:Oh, for sure.

00:55:17Marc:I mean, I watched that documentary about the Sopranos and Gandolfini having to do that for six seasons.

00:55:24Guest:Yeah.

00:55:25Marc:It just crushed him.

00:55:26Guest:Yeah.

00:55:27Guest:Oh, I believe it.

00:55:27Marc:Because you find this stuff in yourself that might be buried for a reason.

00:55:32Marc:Yeah.

00:55:33Marc:Oh, my God.

00:55:33Guest:And at least if it's a movie or a play.

00:55:35Guest:I remember one time Ron said to me, we were somewhere on a beach, and I was like, oh, my God, this beach is amazing.

00:55:41Guest:Why is this beach so epic?

00:55:42Guest:He's like, well, I think finally you're, like, back to yourself.

00:55:45Guest:You know, because it's just, yeah.

00:55:48Marc:Well, let me ask you.

00:55:49Marc:So, like, if you've got a big role in a movie, a significant role.

00:55:54Mm-hmm.

00:55:54Marc:What do you do first?

00:55:58Guest:First I go, why is the script in my lap?

00:56:01Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:56:04Marc:Because they wanted you.

00:56:05Guest:Yeah, no, but like, what's the title of it?

00:56:09Marc:In Memoriam.

00:56:10Guest:Okay, so what does that mean to you?

00:56:12Marc:Well, I mean, before I knew what it was about, I was like, well, this is going to be dark.

00:56:17Marc:And, you know, I hope it's not too sad.

00:56:21Marc:But I'm both of those things.

00:56:24Marc:So let's open it up to the first page.

00:56:27Marc:And then I read it.

00:56:29Marc:But I knew the pitch line of the movie.

00:56:32Marc:Which was?

00:56:33Marc:Which was it's about an actor who was a great actor and had his ups and downs, almost became a movie star, but kind of shit the bed, went through a period where he was just trying to rebuild and get back on top.

00:56:45Marc:Then he took a sitcom and he did that for five years.

00:56:48Marc:That's what he got known for.

00:56:49Guest:Oh, wow.

00:56:50Marc:So he completely sold out his initial, you know, his original dream and talent to do this thing.

00:56:57Guest:Yeah, that's exactly where I would start.

00:56:59Marc:Yeah.

00:57:00Guest:For me personally, I'd be like, where did I where do I see this dynamic in my own life?

00:57:04Marc:Right.

00:57:05Marc:I blew it.

00:57:06Guest:Yeah.

00:57:06Guest:And it wouldn't have to initially for me be that in the career.

00:57:09Guest:It could be anywhere, but I'd start to mine it.

00:57:11Marc:Sure.

00:57:12Guest:Yeah.

00:57:12Guest:Well, that's what I do.

00:57:13Marc:You try to connect your own experience to that.

00:57:15Guest:Yeah.

00:57:16Marc:Yeah.

00:57:17Guest:So you're doing it.

00:57:18Marc:I did all that.

00:57:18Marc:But then the catch is, is that he's diagnosed with stage four colon cancer.

00:57:23Guest:OK.

00:57:24Marc:At the beginning of the movie.

00:57:25Marc:Okay.

00:57:27Marc:And he becomes obsessed with the need to be in the In Memoria montage of the Oscars.

00:57:32Guest:Which I love.

00:57:33Marc:And he doesn't think he has the resume to do it, which he doesn't.

00:57:35Guest:He doesn't.

00:57:36Guest:Okay.

00:57:36Marc:You know, and his manager's like, well, you're getting the Emmys.

00:57:38Guest:He's like, who the fuck cares about the Emmys?

00:57:40Guest:Yeah.

00:57:41Marc:You know, like, so he feels like his legacy, his entire legacy is hinging on being in that montage.

00:57:48Marc:And he fucked himself by doing this sitcom.

00:57:51Yeah.

00:57:51Marc:So no one knows him.

00:57:52Marc:So he's walking around bringing up movies no one's seen.

00:57:55Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:57:55Marc:To people that are younger than him.

00:57:57Marc:And they're like, I don't know anything about him.

00:57:58Marc:Yeah.

00:57:59Marc:And his ex-wife, it's complicated.

00:58:02Marc:But, like, the thing that I guess what...

00:58:06Guest:There's so much pathos in that, though.

00:58:08Guest:Totally.

00:58:08Guest:Right?

00:58:08Guest:Like existential.

00:58:10Guest:Sure.

00:58:10Guest:And also, like, you know, when you spend time with people who are old, like older meaning in their 70s and 80s and how they have to go back to all those past things and keep talking about it and talking about it.

00:58:20Marc:If they can remember them.

00:58:21Guest:Yeah.

00:58:22Marc:Like this guy kind of burned through it.

00:58:23Marc:And I think that there was a point where, you know, he didn't have to think about it every day.

00:58:28Marc:But the idea that he's dying, now he's got to justify his existence.

00:58:32Marc:Yeah.

00:58:33Yeah.

00:58:33Marc:But I think the bigger question for me was, like, so you know you're dying soon.

00:58:39Marc:Yeah.

00:58:40Marc:And that's the news you've been delivered.

00:58:43Marc:What do you do with that as an actor?

00:58:44Marc:Because you can't play that in every scene.

00:58:46Marc:And it took me until yesterday to realize, like, well, he's going to be avoiding that as much as possible, even when he knows it's happening.

00:58:52Marc:Right.

00:58:52Marc:He's going to focus on whatever he has to to not live in that.

00:58:56Marc:Right.

00:58:57Marc:So there are scenes where he's living in it, and then there are scenes where he's trying desperately to.

00:59:00Guest:Thank God you figured that out before you started shooting.

00:59:03Marc:Yeah.

00:59:04Marc:Don't you love that?

00:59:05Marc:Yeah.

00:59:06Marc:Well, does that happen to you?

00:59:07Marc:Like the day before, you're like, oh, my God.

00:59:09Marc:Always.

00:59:09Marc:I got it.

00:59:10Marc:Yeah.

00:59:11Marc:Always.

00:59:12Guest:Yeah.

00:59:12Marc:Well, that's good.

00:59:13Guest:No, but I mean, and also sometimes halfway through the shoot.

00:59:15Guest:You know, like where you're like, oh, I know.

00:59:18Guest:Yeah, and there might be something I wished I could have.

00:59:21Guest:I would have played so different.

00:59:23Guest:But then I'm so grateful.

00:59:24Marc:Yeah, I talked to James Caan once.

00:59:27Marc:He's like, you know, on the first day of shooting The Godfather, I didn't have Sonny yet.

00:59:31Guest:Yeah.

00:59:32Guest:Most of the time you don't, right?

00:59:33Guest:Like you grow into it and you find your way.

00:59:35Marc:Yeah, but usually when I get there, I'm like, am I just being me?

00:59:38Guest:Yeah.

00:59:39Guest:Well, and that's true, too.

00:59:41Guest:You know what I mean?

00:59:42Guest:And like you're saying with process, I don't think it's that.

00:59:44Guest:I'm always marvel at the actors who do all the amazing physical exterior work and inner work at the same time.

00:59:52Guest:Like, it's such a craft.

00:59:54Guest:And then I always just feel like I'm some version degree away from...

00:59:59Marc:Yeah, me too.

01:00:01Marc:But you've been doing it a long time, so this is very reassuring.

01:00:04Marc:Yeah, all that work that you just described, my version of that is like, what am I doing with my hands?

01:00:11Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:12Marc:Do I just leave them here?

01:00:13Marc:Yeah.

01:00:15Marc:Just grow while I was standing there.

01:00:18Marc:Or I'm in the middle of some sort of monologue.

01:00:19Marc:And as a person, I'm all hands.

01:00:22Marc:And I'm like, is this guy all hands?

01:00:23Marc:Because I'm doing an all-hands thing.

01:00:26Marc:Yeah.

01:00:26Marc:Maybe he is.

01:00:27Marc:Well, he's going to have to be.

01:00:28Guest:Yeah.

01:00:29Guest:Yeah, he is.

01:00:30Guest:Because that's the thing I hate when I watch.

01:00:32Guest:As long as the actor is doing, like, using what's really there.

01:00:37Guest:Yeah.

01:00:37Guest:I love it.

01:00:38Guest:Yeah.

01:00:38Guest:If someone's trying to pretend, you know, that...

01:00:42Guest:like the light didn't just fall on their face and keep acting you know what I mean or that they don't and like you know if you're working with the other actor and you kind of can't stand them and it's a love scene I like seeing that complicated mess of like you kind of can't stand them and it's a love scene you know yeah it's like that that is sort of the weird thing about actors the thing I learned from Pacino in a certain way is he literally says he says you know you you want to hit it you want to nail it but most of the time you don't yeah

01:01:09Guest:So there's that.

01:01:13Marc:But that's acting.

01:01:14Marc:Yeah.

01:01:14Marc:So if someone watching you believes it, you fucking did it.

01:01:18Marc:Yeah.

01:01:18Marc:Just because you're a little unsatisfied that you didn't, like, whatever.

01:01:21Guest:I know.

01:01:21Guest:Well, we're always unsatisfied.

01:01:23Guest:Like, that's our job.

01:01:24Guest:And the audience is, you know.

01:01:25Marc:Yeah.

01:01:26Guest:They're not sitting there picking it apart.

01:01:28Guest:Like, they're there to love it.

01:01:29Marc:Yeah.

01:01:30Marc:All right.

01:01:31Marc:Yeah.

01:01:31Marc:So what's this other thing you did, the horror movie?

01:01:34Guest:Smile 2.

01:01:35Marc:I saw the coming attractions for that.

01:01:36Guest:Yeah.

01:01:37Marc:How's that?

01:01:38Guest:I'm seeing it Monday.

01:01:39Guest:I heard it's great, actually.

01:01:41Guest:The script was really good.

01:01:43Marc:Is this your first real horror movie?

01:01:46Guest:I did a remake of Poltergeist with Sam Rockwell.

01:01:49Guest:That was fun.

01:01:50Marc:Did you play the mother?

01:01:51Guest:I did.

01:01:52Guest:But that was almost more of like, you know, that's like a nice horror movie.

01:01:55Guest:You know what I mean?

01:01:56Guest:Smile 2 is like, you're supposed to be freaked out.

01:02:00Marc:And it's blood and crazy.

01:02:01Guest:For a couple weeks.

01:02:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:02:03Marc:Yeah, Poltergeist was like, oh, it's ghosts.

01:02:04Marc:Yeah, it's ghosts.

01:02:05Guest:Ghosts aren't scary.

01:02:07Guest:And this one, everything's a spoiler.

01:02:09Guest:But the guy, Parker Finn, who directed it, really knows.

01:02:12Guest:It's fun when you're working with a filmmaker who really knows what they want.

01:02:15Guest:Yeah.

01:02:15Guest:And it's like, oh, and yeah, you're going to look right down the lens.

01:02:18Guest:Like, they just know what's scary.

01:02:19Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:20Guest:So technically, it was a little challenging, but fun.

01:02:23Marc:Yeah?

01:02:23Guest:I mean, my kids can never see it, but.

01:02:25Marc:Ever?

01:02:26Guest:I don't know.

01:02:27Marc:Why?

01:02:27Marc:Is that scary?

01:02:28Guest:Yeah, it's just.

01:02:29Marc:What's your character?

01:02:30Yeah.

01:02:30Guest:I'm like a momager, you know, like a Kris Jenner.

01:02:34Marc:Okay.

01:02:35Guest:You know?

01:02:35Guest:Okay, yeah.

01:02:36Guest:You know, or like any pop star, you know, a pop star's mom.

01:02:39Marc:That's kind of a nasty, ambitious character.

01:02:43Guest:Yeah, that's what was fun about it.

01:02:44Guest:It was fun to play somebody who you were like, is this genuine?

01:02:48Guest:Like, do they love their kid?

01:02:49Guest:Are they pushing them too much?

01:02:50Guest:Like, what's wrong?

01:02:51Guest:What's in it for them?

01:02:52Guest:You know, all that kind of stuff.

01:02:54Guest:So it was a little bit of that kind of exploration.

01:02:56Guest:And the girl who plays my daughter Naomi Scott, I don't know if this gets you excited, but she played Princess Jasmine in the Will Smith Aladdin.

01:03:06Guest:And then when someone gets to then do such a transformation, you know what I mean?

01:03:10Guest:And now she's playing Olivia Rodrigo.

01:03:13Guest:And she can really sing and dance and do all her things.

01:03:16Guest:So I know she's not going to be able to walk down the street in a couple weeks.

01:03:19Marc:Because of this movie?

01:03:20Guest:Yeah, because it's going to be...

01:03:21Marc:So it's going to be big.

01:03:22Guest:It'll be big for her.

01:03:23Marc:Yeah.

01:03:24Marc:I think so.

01:03:24Marc:People like the horror.

01:03:25Guest:They do.

01:03:26Guest:Especially if it's done well.

01:03:27Guest:Because if you go to the movies and you get to all be together and you talk about your feelings.

01:03:33Guest:Could you imagine right now if other people all felt the same way you did about starting this job on Monday?

01:03:39Guest:You know how good you'd feel if everybody was in it with you?

01:03:42Guest:But you get to go to a movie and be all scared together.

01:03:45Guest:You know what I mean?

01:03:46Guest:And then laugh that you all had the exact same feeling.

01:03:49Guest:It's fun.

01:03:49Marc:It's great.

01:03:50Marc:Do you go to the theater a lot?

01:03:51Guest:Not as much as I used to.

01:03:53Guest:But I try to go.

01:03:54Guest:I do.

01:03:55Guest:I try to go, too.

01:03:55Marc:Yeah.

01:03:56Marc:Yeah.

01:03:57Guest:And I love it.

01:03:57Guest:When I go, I love it.

01:03:58Marc:It's amazing.

01:03:59Guest:I mean, I went to see The Wild Robot the other day because I have kids.

01:04:02Marc:How was that?

01:04:03Guest:It was great.

01:04:04Marc:Yeah?

01:04:04Guest:Yeah, it was great.

01:04:05Marc:You know what I watched the other night?

01:04:06Marc:What?

01:04:06Marc:Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

01:04:07Guest:Yeah.

01:04:08Guest:Yeah.

01:04:08Guest:Great.

01:04:09Guest:Still great.

01:04:10Guest:I know.

01:04:11Guest:Holds up.

01:04:11Marc:Did you watch that?

01:04:12Marc:It's not really a kid's movie.

01:04:13Guest:No.

01:04:13Guest:I haven't watched it with them.

01:04:15Guest:I wonder if they like it.

01:04:16Guest:It kind of bums me out.

01:04:18Guest:11 and almost 9.

01:04:19Guest:It bums me out when they don't think movies are great.

01:04:23Guest:You know what I mean?

01:04:24Guest:My daughter the other day went into... She's like, does hip-hop.

01:04:27Guest:And there was an acting class for dancers at the studio.

01:04:31Guest:Yeah.

01:04:31Guest:And I knew the woman.

01:04:33Guest:She's like, oh, she should come in and try it for a little bit.

01:04:35Guest:And she kind of looked at me like...

01:04:37Guest:No.

01:04:39Guest:But she went in.

01:04:40Guest:So I opened the door 10 minutes later and she's like rolling around the floor like she's pretending she's a pig and the whole class is laughing.

01:04:45Guest:I'm like, oh, she's having a ball.

01:04:46Guest:She comes out like 15 minutes later.

01:04:48Guest:I was like, oh, is the class over?

01:04:50Guest:She's like, no.

01:04:52Guest:Acting is so stupid and boring.

01:04:55Guest:I just raised my hand and said, I'm sorry, I need to be somewhere.

01:04:59Guest:And she left the class.

01:05:01Guest:And I'm like, oh, this thing that I've devoted my life to, you have just decided is like the dumbest stuff ever.

01:05:07Marc:Oh, that's kind of, thank God.

01:05:10Guest:Yeah, and she knows herself.

01:05:11Guest:She is like that kid who just doesn't suffer, like whatever that Fosse quote is, doesn't dance for grandma.

01:05:16Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:17Guest:She's like, yeah, I'm not feeling this at all.

01:05:20Marc:It's so funny, though, because you'd think that acting would be so exciting, but it didn't hurt her feelings.

01:05:24Marc:She's just like, this is dumb.

01:05:26Guest:Yeah, she doesn't care.

01:05:27Marc:Yeah.

01:05:28Marc:What's the other one like?

01:05:29Guest:The opposite.

01:05:30Guest:Like she probably is an actress.

01:05:31Guest:I won't let her anywhere near it, you know, but she is.

01:05:35Guest:Yeah.

01:05:36Guest:When she's 18, she could do whatever she wants.

01:05:37Marc:Oh, really?

01:05:38Marc:You're going to keep her away from it for that long?

01:05:40Guest:I don't know.

01:05:40Guest:I mean, because she's also sometimes, as we all know, she's also really sensitive and like she's all the things, but she's like a natural mimic.

01:05:50Guest:And if she hears a song, like when she was little, she would hear songs on the radio and she'd be like, turn it off.

01:05:55Guest:It's too sad.

01:05:56Guest:You know, like she just feels stuff.

01:05:58Guest:So I also want to protect her.

01:06:00Guest:You know, it's a business.

01:06:01Guest:It's a job.

01:06:02Guest:She doesn't need to go to work.

01:06:03Guest:Yeah.

01:06:05Guest:But she feels it so much.

01:06:07Guest:Yeah.

01:06:08Guest:It's beautiful.

01:06:10Guest:I think maybe I was like that.

01:06:12Guest:But like I said, I didn't really grow up in an environment where that was okay.

01:06:16Marc:I find that as I'm getting older, like things are hitting me hard.

01:06:19Marc:They are?

01:06:20Marc:Yeah.

01:06:20Marc:And then like, well, Lynn passing...

01:06:24Marc:I mean, that like opens up something in your heart that is tragic, but you can't undo it.

01:06:34Marc:No.

01:06:35Marc:And the sensitivity to almost everything is just amplified.

01:06:39Marc:I mean, you know, it breaks your heart, but then all of a sudden you realize like this is what life is and everything becomes a little bit heartbreaking, a little bit more heartbreaking.

01:06:49Yeah.

01:06:49Guest:Yeah, I almost feel like that's like the great, it's like awful to go through these, like I don't, I always don't want to go through awful experiences.

01:06:58Guest:But I realized like, because I've been, I was lucky enough to bury both my parents and be with both my parents when they passed, like help them go.

01:07:06Guest:Oh, really?

01:07:06Yeah.

01:07:07Guest:And I when I after both those experiences, I was like, this is what it's all about.

01:07:11Guest:Like, this is what life is.

01:07:13Guest:And then your heart is so much more open and you're capable of so much more love and so much more presence.

01:07:19Guest:I mean, maybe that's not everybody's experience because sometimes those things can sink you.

01:07:23Marc:Right.

01:07:24Marc:I've always been pretty good at fighting the love.

01:07:26Guest:You have?

01:07:27Guest:Yeah.

01:07:27Guest:What do you mean?

01:07:28Marc:How do you fight the love?

01:07:31Marc:Well, I'm a comedian.

01:07:33Marc:Okay.

01:07:34Marc:Yeah, it's all about managing and fighting the love.

01:07:37Guest:All right.

01:07:37Guest:Yeah, but I just need to understand more.

01:07:40Marc:I think because, not to be too psychobabbly, that because my parents were so self-involved that, you know, I grew to interpret love as sort of a manipulation and stuff.

01:07:52Marc:And I don't think they were very capable of being selfless in any genuine way.

01:07:56Marc:So I'm fundamentally...

01:07:58Marc:Yeah, sure, sure.

01:08:01Marc:Of love.

01:08:02Guest:Of someone loving you?

01:08:03Marc:That.

01:08:03Marc:Yeah.

01:08:04Marc:Sure.

01:08:04Guest:Okay.

01:08:04Marc:It took Lynn a long time to break through.

01:08:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:08:07Guest:She was a determined one.

01:08:09Marc:She is determined.

01:08:10Marc:Yeah.

01:08:10Marc:Or was determined.

01:08:12Marc:Yeah.

01:08:13Marc:But also, like, in giving love, like, the vulnerability of it, I think that in some ways...

01:08:20Marc:I don't know.

01:08:21Marc:There's part of my personality that I think you've got to be all in or not.

01:08:24Marc:Like, there's no middle zone.

01:08:26Marc:Right?

01:08:27Marc:So, like, even with my cats, who I should feel perfectly comfortable, you know, loving unconditionally because they're animals, I'm still a little like, what's going on?

01:08:35Guest:You're withholding with your cats?

01:08:36Marc:Well, yeah, because there you are.

01:08:38Guest:Yeah, well, they are.

01:08:39Guest:Yeah.

01:08:41Guest:Tit for tat.

01:08:42Guest:Yeah.

01:08:43Marc:And also, like, Lynn was, like, so incredibly supportive and insistent

01:08:50Marc:that I act.

01:08:51Guest:Yeah.

01:08:52Marc:And then I do it.

01:08:53Guest:Yeah.

01:08:53Marc:And you know, I think about her, you know, like that.

01:08:57Guest:Yeah.

01:09:00Guest:Isn't it funny also to find people that believe in you that much like later in life?

01:09:05Guest:You know, like somebody asked me this morning, like, who was the first person that made you feel like you could be an actor?

01:09:11Guest:And I'm like, I don't know.

01:09:12Guest:I don't know if I've met them.

01:09:12Guest:No, I'm kidding.

01:09:13Guest:But, you know, like, I don't know.

01:09:16Guest:I mean, I think there's a lot of people along the way.

01:09:18Guest:But to just to have somebody like see you.

01:09:22Guest:Yeah.

01:09:22Guest:You know what I mean, in life?

01:09:23Guest:And also probably know you well enough to know that you want to do it.

01:09:27Guest:Because you seem, as much as you seem scared right now, you seem really excited.

01:09:32Guest:No, and really happy.

01:09:34Guest:I love acting because I love that the complexity and the mystery and the beauty and what you had, let's say, with Lynn, has a container.

01:09:45Marc:Yeah.

01:09:45Guest:Has somewhere to go.

01:09:47Marc:Yeah.

01:09:47Marc:Well, she really kind of like...

01:09:49Marc:It does require somebody seeing you.

01:09:53Guest:Yeah.

01:09:53Marc:You know what I mean?

01:09:54Marc:Because I have, and I don't know, I imagine you're that way too.

01:09:58Marc:People make assumptions about what you're like.

01:10:01Guest:I don't think anybody thinks about me that much, quite honestly.

01:10:05Marc:I did most of the day.

01:10:06Guest:Oh, okay.

01:10:06Guest:Well, today, what was your assumption about what I was like?

01:10:11Marc:Well, I mean, it all comes from like your relationship with people who are actors.

01:10:15Marc:It comes from these different roles that I've seen you do.

01:10:18Marc:And, you know, I thought you would be a little harder.

01:10:24Guest:But you're not.

01:10:25Marc:Yeah.

01:10:25Marc:You know what I mean?

01:10:26Marc:Because you do have a, like, in a lot of roles, you're pretty, I don't know if it's tough, but you hold your ground somehow.

01:10:35Marc:Does that make sense?

01:10:36Guest:Yeah.

01:10:36Marc:So I figure, like, all right, she's going to be, like, together and tough and, you know, not in a bad way.

01:10:43Guest:Yeah.

01:10:44Marc:She's going to be nice.

01:10:45Guest:Yeah.

01:10:45Marc:But, like, I don't know if I'm going to, you know, I'm never right.

01:10:49Marc:I'm never right.

01:10:49Guest:Yeah.

01:10:50Marc:Ever.

01:10:51Yeah.

01:10:51Guest:Oh, that's good to know.

01:10:51Marc:But people assume that I'm kind of an asshole sometimes or a little curmudgeon or a little defensive.

01:10:57Marc:And those are all true.

01:10:58Marc:But then those people come where they just – that makes no difference to them.

01:11:02Guest:Yeah.

01:11:03Marc:They see the other thing.

01:11:04Marc:Sure.

01:11:04Marc:The thing that you're trying to hide.

01:11:06Guest:Yeah.

01:11:07Guest:That's the best thing.

01:11:08Marc:That's the best thing.

01:11:08Guest:You know.

01:11:09Marc:And somebody you love.

01:11:10Guest:That's the thing that we all want.

01:11:11Guest:We all want to see the thing that everybody doesn't want to show us.

01:11:14Guest:I know.

01:11:15Guest:Isn't that weird?

01:11:15Guest:That's the thing that makes us fall in love with our people and whatever.

01:11:19Guest:And that's the thing that I feel like.

01:11:21Marc:You've got to let that happen.

01:11:22Guest:Yeah.

01:11:22Marc:Right?

01:11:23Guest:Well, and also in the role that you're going to do, too.

01:11:26Guest:I mean, I don't know why we're talking about acting so much.

01:11:27Guest:I mean, I guess I know why because it's a podcast.

01:11:29Guest:No.

01:11:30Guest:Is that like I love to see.

01:11:32Guest:Like I love to really see someone take an authentic breath.

01:11:36Guest:Like while the camera's on.

01:11:38Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:38Guest:You know what I mean?

01:11:39Guest:Or show that thing that they didn't want us to see, that they didn't plan at home in their room.

01:11:45Guest:Yeah.

01:11:46Guest:But it just kind of happened.

01:11:47Guest:Yeah.

01:11:48Guest:And it made them feel awkward.

01:11:49Guest:And again, that's what I know.

01:11:51Guest:Of course we're going to talk about Lynn.

01:11:52Guest:Those were the moments that she wanted.

01:11:54Marc:Yeah.

01:11:55Guest:So when she found them, that was the lightning in a bottle.

01:11:58Guest:And then she built the whole movie around it.

01:11:59Guest:She would change the movie.

01:12:01Guest:Yeah.

01:12:01Guest:Because she's like, that happened.

01:12:02Guest:And now we're going to make this whole movie lead up to that moment because that was true.

01:12:08Marc:Oh.

01:12:09Marc:She's so good.

01:12:10Guest:So good.

01:12:11Guest:Yeah.

01:12:12Guest:Ron and I wrote...

01:12:14Guest:a pilot recently like during the strike just to be creative right and it was like it's like almost sometimes you forget that we lose people yeah because i was like well lynn will direct this yeah you know what i mean and then like it's like i woke i was like oh wait no and i was like oh god i gotta go find my

01:12:31Guest:my Lynn but there's no Lynn so then you just have to go out and make new friends and new creative partnerships and there isn't anyone like as poetic in the way that she was poetic you know there are other there are directors that kind of

01:12:45Marc:playing the same field but like she was so specific about those moments yeah you know I miss her yeah I was so glad though that I was coming to do this with you like it's so nice to to talk to see you yeah it's nice to see you too because I think she really loved you

01:13:04Marc:Were you in touch with her?

01:13:05Guest:Yeah.

01:13:05Marc:Yeah.

01:13:06Guest:You guys talked.

01:13:07Guest:We did.

01:13:08Guest:We went through a lot of years, especially in between projects, where we really kind of had to hash life out.

01:13:15Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:13:16Guest:But you do that when you're struggling.

01:13:17Guest:Yeah.

01:13:18Guest:I had a big, long infertility journey, and she was going through her stuff.

01:13:22Guest:And then when you get happy, that's when you don't talk to each other as much.

01:13:27Guest:Yeah.

01:13:27Marc:You know, in a good way.

01:13:28Marc:Well, yeah, if you're really close with somebody that you have that relationship with.

01:13:31Guest:Yeah, you can just text or send a Marco Polo.

01:13:33Guest:I'm good.

01:13:34Guest:Yeah, that's it.

01:13:35Guest:You know, and then until the next big threshold that you want to share with them.

01:13:41Marc:So you went through infertility for a long time?

01:13:43Guest:Yeah, like maybe seven or eight years.

01:13:46Guest:Like you've had a long road.

01:13:49Guest:But I wouldn't change it because now that I met my kids, they wouldn't be these kids if it didn't take the exact amount of time that it took.

01:13:57Marc:Yeah, my brother went through that and he's got three adopted kids.

01:14:01Marc:Oh, wow.

01:14:01Marc:Yeah.

01:14:02Marc:How old are they?

01:14:03Marc:They're all kind of older now.

01:14:05Marc:The youngest one's in his early 20s, and then there's mid-20s.

01:14:10Marc:The oldest one's got to be coming up on 30.

01:14:12Guest:And how are the adults, like the young kids now that are adults, how are they in their adopted life?

01:14:19Guest:Because it comes with a lot of loss, too.

01:14:22Marc:I think so.

01:14:23Marc:I don't really know.

01:14:24Marc:And I know they did the adoption where...

01:14:27Marc:They were contacted when a woman who wanted to put a child up for adoption was pregnant.

01:14:35Marc:And so they were there at the very beginning.

01:14:38Marc:And that seemed so heavy to me.

01:14:40Marc:And I haven't really talked to the kids about, like, because my brother always knew, like, well, we know who your mom is.

01:14:46Marc:So if you want to do that, let us know.

01:14:49Marc:And I don't know what the percentage of kids did do that.

01:14:53Marc:Because some of them, I think, are like, no.

01:14:56Guest:Yeah.

01:14:56Marc:But I guess that is the intrinsic loss.

01:14:58Marc:And why?

01:14:59Marc:Why did they all that?

01:15:00Guest:Yeah, you can't not.

01:15:02Guest:It's again, like when we're talking about the other existential things, like that's an existential question.

01:15:08Guest:And like, where do I come from?

01:15:09Guest:Yeah.

01:15:10Guest:I mean, I think the way that not a trend, that's not the right word, but the way they kind of do it now in adoption is like.

01:15:16Guest:You know, you try to do open adoptions.

01:15:18Guest:Like, we know our daughter's birth families and stuff, and we're in relationship.

01:15:23Guest:Oh, you are?

01:15:23Guest:Yeah, but they didn't really do that back when your brother adopted.

01:15:26Guest:And then if you went back, like, if someone like you or I were adopted, they maybe wouldn't even tell you you were adopted.

01:15:31Marc:You'd have to go, like, go through microfiche to find...

01:15:35Guest:Yeah.

01:15:36Guest:So who knows what's right and what's in the best interest?

01:15:39Guest:I think it might have been when my brother did it.

01:15:41Marc:I think it was an option.

01:15:42Marc:Yeah.

01:15:43Marc:I think a lot of the mothers were like, I don't know if I can handle that.

01:15:47Guest:Yeah.

01:15:47Marc:But they know the backstory of all these kids, you know.

01:15:50Marc:Yeah.

01:15:50Marc:Which is kind of interesting.

01:15:51Marc:Yeah.

01:15:53Marc:So they all have a relationship with their birth family?

01:15:56Guest:Yeah.

01:15:57Marc:Wow.

01:15:58Guest:Yeah, it's cool.

01:15:59Guest:Is it?

01:15:59Guest:It is.

01:16:00Guest:But, I mean, it's a lot of complexity and nuance, you know, because, you know, you just, you're there to focus on your child.

01:16:10Guest:So it's like what's best for them, even though, you know, it's not what's best for me as mom.

01:16:16Guest:It's not what's best for them as first mom.

01:16:19Guest:It's like what, if you center the kid, like what really is best for them?

01:16:22Guest:So you have to take cues off them.

01:16:24Guest:And we're like, you want to go to the water park with these guys?

01:16:29Guest:And if they say yeah, you do it.

01:16:31Guest:If they say no, then you go, okay, we're not going to do it this time.

01:16:34Marc:It sounds a little heavy.

01:16:35Guest:Yeah, it's heavy.

01:16:36Guest:But I mean, it's like what we're talking about.

01:16:38Guest:Life is, right?

01:16:39Marc:Why don't you and Ron write that movie?

01:16:40Guest:Yeah, maybe.

01:16:42Marc:I've never seen a movie like that.

01:16:43Guest:Okay.

01:16:45Marc:Yeah.

01:16:47Marc:What's he doing?

01:16:48Yeah.

01:16:48Guest:What's he doing right now?

01:16:50Guest:He did pick up today.

01:16:52Guest:He's home.

01:16:53Guest:He's going to go do.

01:16:54Guest:You guys live here?

01:16:56Guest:We live right, yeah, like Los Feliz.

01:16:58Guest:Oh, you're right here?

01:16:59Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:16:59Guest:Oh.

01:16:59Guest:Yeah.

01:17:00Guest:Although I came earlier from press, so that took me like an hour and a half to get here.

01:17:04Marc:So what were you doing, like five-minute bites?

01:17:06Guest:Yeah, it wasn't even a junket.

01:17:07Guest:It was more like a 30-minute with peace and this and that.

01:17:13Marc:Yeah.

01:17:14Guest:Yeah.

01:17:14Guest:No, not the rat-a-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta.

01:17:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:17Marc:You're now talking to, yeah, yeah.

01:17:20Marc:Someone else sits in the chair.

01:17:22Guest:Yeah.

01:17:23Marc:Wasn't that?

01:17:23Marc:Is it all for the, is it for both projects or for the movies?

01:17:25Guest:No, that's just for Smile 2.

01:17:27Guest:And then the other one comes out at the end of November.

01:17:29Marc:I feel like it's going to be a big movie.

01:17:31Guest:Smile 2?

01:17:31Marc:Yeah.

01:17:32Guest:I hope so.

01:17:32Guest:Yeah.

01:17:33Guest:It'll be fun.

01:17:34Marc:And you got something else on the plate?

01:17:36Guest:Yeah, like the one I told you about up in Vancouver.

01:17:40Marc:That one's done.

01:17:40Guest:Oh, you mean one that I haven't done yet?

01:17:42Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:17:42Guest:No.

01:17:42Guest:I kind of want to, yeah, I don't know.

01:17:45Guest:I really like the writing process.

01:17:47Guest:I mean, I guess you do that too.

01:17:48Guest:Like, Ron and I wrote that.

01:17:50Guest:I, like, really enjoyed it.

01:17:51Guest:So I might, like you're saying, go write that movie.

01:17:53Guest:I liked Scratching That Bitch.

01:17:55Marc:I can't stand writing.

01:17:57Guest:Okay.

01:17:58Marc:It's just like it just never doesn't feel like homework.

01:18:01Guest:Okay.

01:18:02Marc:And it's just sort of like... I like things that happen now.

01:18:06Guest:Yeah.

01:18:06Guest:You don't have the patience for it?

01:18:08Marc:I guess.

01:18:09Marc:You know, I do write... Like, weekly, I do a newsletter, you know, which is sort of like a...

01:18:13Guest:That's very nice.

01:18:14Marc:No, no.

01:18:15Marc:And I make myself do that.

01:18:16Marc:And it's a good exercise.

01:18:19Marc:Lynn and I were writing a script that I won't let anybody do.

01:18:22Marc:And it's a good story.

01:18:26Marc:But like, I don't know.

01:18:28Marc:And I was kind of helping.

01:18:29Marc:I optioned my buddy's book.

01:18:32Marc:And we went through five drafts of that.

01:18:34Marc:I like it when I don't have to be the driver.

01:18:36Guest:I know.

01:18:37Guest:Yeah.

01:18:37Marc:You know what I mean?

01:18:38Marc:Yeah.

01:18:38Marc:It's like, what do you think of this?

01:18:40Marc:Well, I think we can trim this up and do that.

01:18:41Marc:And why don't we try it like this?

01:18:43Marc:And they go do it.

01:18:43Marc:I'm like, yeah, look what we did.

01:18:45Guest:I know.

01:18:45Guest:I kind of feel like that's how Ron and I are like, I feel like I kind of come up with the rainbows.

01:18:49Guest:And then I'm like, how about like, what if a scene and then he can sit there and actually like hyper focus and hammer it out.

01:18:55Marc:Oh, good.

01:18:55Guest:But I'm very much like, I'm just going to talk the scene into my phone.

01:18:59Marc:Much better.

01:19:00Guest:That's like ADHD or something.

01:19:02Marc:Maybe that's what you both have it, but it's complimenting each other.

01:19:04Guest:Yeah.

01:19:04Guest:He's got his own.

01:19:05Guest:Yeah.

01:19:06Yeah.

01:19:06Marc:Well, it was great talking to you.

01:19:08Guest:It was great to talk to you.

01:19:09Marc:You feel good about it?

01:19:10Guest:Yeah, do you?

01:19:11Marc:Yeah, I do.

01:19:12Guest:Oh, okay.

01:19:12Marc:But now we've got to go do the sad thing.

01:19:14Guest:I know.

01:19:14Guest:That just scared me.

01:19:15Marc:The jacket?

01:19:16Guest:Yeah, when you said, do you get scared?

01:19:18Guest:You know, like acting.

01:19:19Guest:And I'm like, no, but I want to be scared.

01:19:21Guest:I just got scared.

01:19:22Guest:About what?

01:19:22Marc:To see the jacket.

01:19:23Marc:But I think it's important.

01:19:24Marc:Yeah.

01:19:25Marc:Okay.

01:19:25Guest:Thanks.

01:19:31Marc:That was nice.

01:19:31Marc:I enjoyed that.

01:19:34Marc:Again, that Out of My Mind premieres tomorrow on Disney+, and Smile 2 is in theaters and digital on demand.

01:19:45Marc:Hang out for a minute, folks.

01:19:49Marc:Okay, here we go.

01:19:50Marc:For full Marin subscribers, we've got this month's batch of outtakes that didn't make it into recent episodes, including stuff from my talks with Al Pacino, Robert Patrick, and Keith Urban.

01:20:02Marc:I'm locked into the Shure SM7.

01:20:04Marc:Great vocal mic.

01:20:05Marc:And then the other 58s.

01:20:06Marc:Is that an ad?

01:20:07Marc:Yeah.

01:20:08Marc:They're sending me shit.

01:20:10Marc:Yeah, I always go with the SM7s.

01:20:12Guest:I think I've sold more SM7s to podcasters.

01:20:15Guest:It's one of my favorite mics, in all honesty, and I do lots of recorded vocals on these guys.

01:20:20Guest:On the SM7s?

01:20:21Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:20:21Guest:I hold it in the studio and sing in the studio.

01:20:25Guest:No, it's a great vocal mic.

01:20:27Guest:Yeah, it's a great vocal mic.

01:20:29Guest:I imagine you've moved on from the 58s on stage, right?

01:20:34Guest:Yeah.

01:20:34Guest:What have we got right now?

01:20:35Guest:Well, it's all wireless anyway.

01:20:37Guest:Yeah, I can't.

01:20:37Guest:So it's a different beast.

01:20:38Guest:But I did a tour with these as my main vocal mics on stage.

01:20:41Guest:No shit?

01:20:42Guest:Yeah.

01:20:42Guest:Does Shure know that?

01:20:44Guest:Probably back in the day.

01:20:47Guest:And they looked great and sounded great, but apparently no one in the front could see my face.

01:20:51Guest:Big mics.

01:20:53Marc:To get bonus episodes twice a week, go to the link in the episode description to sign up for the full Marin or go to WTFPod.com and click on WTF+.

01:21:04Marc:And just a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast.

01:21:10Marc:And here's some Neely sounding stuff.

01:21:16Acast.

01:21:43Thank you.

01:22:58Marc:Boomer lives.

01:22:59Marc:Monkey and LaFonda.

01:23:00Marc:Cat angels everywhere.